From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 02:53:51 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]_New York Times_ article: "U.S. Arrests Russian Cryptographer as Copyright Violator" Message-ID: <20010718025351.S29904@zork.net> I met this reporter at DEF CON (in a conference session on the DMCA!), and she was very nice. http://archive.nytimes.com/2001/07/18/technology/18CRYP.html This story updates some details, but doesn't say where Mr. Sklyarov is now or who is co-ordinating defense for him. I'm going to ask Ms. Lee to let me know if she gets any new information. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From pablos at kadrevis.com Wed Jul 18 03:06:31 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]News links Message-ID: <3458502.995425591@[10.0.1.220]> Here are the other news links so you don't have to go looking: http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/07/17/hacker.arrest.reut/index.html http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45298,00.html http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-6592390.html http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/07/17/130226&mode=thread http://securitygeeks.shmoo.com/article.php?story=20010717083820248 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/20444.html http://www.msnbc.com/news/601585.asp http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010717/tc/tech_hacker_arrest_dc_1.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/18/technology/18CRYP.html Pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From karl.deabrew at binarything.com Wed Jul 18 04:49:02 2001 From: karl.deabrew at binarything.com (Karl De Abrew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]News links Message-ID: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F4B9@mail.roundtable.com.au> We're maintaining a full list here at: http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=170 _________________________________________ Karl De Abrew karl.deabrew@binarything.com http://www.planetpdf.com/ http://www.planetebook.com/ http://www.xmlarena.com/ http://www.binarything.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network > -----Original Message----- > From: Pablos Kadrevis [mailto:pablos@kadrevis.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 8:07 PM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: [free-sklyarov]News links > > > Here are the other news links so you don't have to go looking: > > http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/07/17/hacker.arrest.reut > /index.html > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45298,00.html > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-6592390.html > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/07/17/130226&mode=thread > http://securitygeeks.shmoo.com/article.php?story=20010717083820248 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/20444.html > http://www.msnbc.com/news/601585.asp > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010717/tc/tech_hacker_arrest > _dc_1.html > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/18/technology/18CRYP.html > > Pablos. > -- > Pablos Kadrevis > pablos@kadrevis.com > 415.420.3806 > www.shmoo.com/~pablos > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From dw2 at opencontent.org Wed Jul 18 09:41:22 2001 From: dw2 at opencontent.org (David Wiley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]In D.C. next week Message-ID: <3B55BC32.1D5F733E@opencontent.org> I'm going to be in Washington, D. C. next week. What should I do while I'm there? Suggestions? David -- David Wiley, Ph.D. Instructional Technology Utah State University Impress your friends, anger the MPAA! Decode DVD's with 7 lines of PERL! For more info, see http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 18 09:30:35 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Free Skylarov Street Action Strike Force! Message-ID: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Hey, so, what's the plan? What are we going to do? For Bayareans, I'd suggest that we do a protest outside of Adobe sometime early next week -- Monday or Tuesday. It's not like Skylarov's locked up in a conference room in Adobe somewhere, but they're the party with the most to lose in terms of publicity. Also, it might be cool to do some outreach to Russian groups, if they exist and are interested (and there sure are a lot of Russians around the Bay Area). _We_ tend to think of this as an information freedom issue, but I think there's some international law issues, too. Other potential allies: Local 2600 Meetings EFF (?) Oh, yeah: anyone banked "freeskylarov.org" yet? ~Klepht P.S. A "Free Skylarov" web page would probably get ./'d. P.P.S. Is Don Marti involved yet? -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ Free Skylarov! From andrea at gravitt.org Wed Jul 18 10:46:18 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]In D.C. next week Message-ID: <000e01c10fb1$9b1e5950$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> >I'm going to be in Washington, D. C. next week. What should I do while >I'm there? Suggestions? Try to make an appointment to see your Representative or Senator and politely introduce the issue. It might be hard to do, but you can give it a shot. It is particularly helpful if yours is on some relevant committee, you can influence policy if you are in the right place at the right time. You can do this through the staff in the district offices in advance. I am working on a letter myself, and I hope that maybe I will have some impact. My representive is a member of the Committee on International Relations. Even if you don't get a meeting, or for those not so geographically convenient, write a letter. Tell your elected official what the problem is, why you are concerned, and what this means for the country as a whole. And do write a letter, although some in Washington are using email, you will make a much better impression on paper. Although I have not used it, I understand that www.congress.org offers a service where they will deliver your message, either by email or paper. Andrea, in Atlanta From jaxs at enteract.com Wed Jul 18 10:48:15 2001 From: jaxs at enteract.com (Jason Kaye) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Free Skylarov Street Action Strike Force! In-Reply-To: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: I think we should protest StarBucks :) ....it was kinda strange being at DefCon9 and listening to the "Meet the FBI" roundtable..they painted a picture of themselves as a friend and we should all work together...and then BAM the next day he gets busted... Something REALLY needs to be done about this law. cheers jaxs -- jason.kaye@point0.com Point Zero Network Consultants, Inc. Pointing out Possibilities; Zeroing in on their solutions. http://www.point0.com -- On 18 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > Hey, so, what's the plan? What are we going to do? > > For Bayareans, I'd suggest that we do a protest outside of Adobe > sometime early next week -- Monday or Tuesday. It's not like > Skylarov's locked up in a conference room in Adobe somewhere, but > they're the party with the most to lose in terms of publicity. > > Also, it might be cool to do some outreach to Russian groups, if they > exist and are interested (and there sure are a lot of Russians around > the Bay Area). _We_ tend to think of this as an information freedom > issue, but I think there's some international law issues, too. > > Other potential allies: > > Local 2600 Meetings > EFF (?) > > Oh, yeah: anyone banked "freeskylarov.org" yet? > > ~Klepht > > P.S. A "Free Skylarov" web page would probably get ./'d. > > P.P.S. Is Don Marti involved yet? > > -- > klepht@eleutheria.org > http://www.eleutheria.org/ > Free Skylarov! > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From bill at scannell.org Wed Jul 18 10:51:06 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Russian Press Reaction In-Reply-To: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: I spent several hours on the 'phone with friends and old colleagues in Moscow last night. According to them, the Skylarov story has either led or been number two in the news line-up in all Russian papers, radio and TV. If we're lucky, this will turn into an full-blown international incident. My Muscovite buddies see three possibilities: 1. That Putin will use this as a stick to beat on Bush with. 2. That there will be a quiet diplomatic solution 3. That the Russians will fully 'cooperate' with the US and launch an investigation in Russian against Skylarov. The smart money is on option two. I have also been asked to write a commentary for the Friday edition of the Moscow Times. -Bill ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 18 10:41:03 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Free Skylarov Street Action Strike Force! In-Reply-To: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> References: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <871ynecez4.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "K" == Klepht writes: K> Other potential allies: K> Local 2600 Meetings EFF (?) I forgot cypherpunks. Cypherpunks! ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From andrea at gravitt.org Wed Jul 18 11:06:55 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]EFF Message-ID: <002b01c10fb4$c8dc5f60$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> The EFF coverage is here: http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010717_eff_sklyarov_pr.html Other relevant topics are of course the RIAA issue with the SDMI Challenge paper by a group of university researchers and the many people being sued over DeCSS. EFF has numerous pages on DMCA issues and their involvement in various legal cases. At the risk of sounding like an advertisement, please consider being a member and making a donation. The large corporations that bought and paid for bad laws like the DMCA have all the money in the world to fund their legal departments and harass people. It is very embarrassing to see my country's legal system used as a blunt instrument to protect corporate bullies. Andrea From bill at scannell.org Wed Jul 18 11:10:38 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Adobe Disinvestment Campaign In-Reply-To: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: After an IP glitch is sorted out, http://www.boycottadobe.com will be live on the web later today. Please wait until the site is up and running before posting the URL...I'll email the list as soon as it's live. Together with Paul Holman of the Shmoo Group, I've put together a site that will hopefully make other companies think twice about using the DMCA to turn security experts into felons. The logo is meant to symbolise the Stalinist tactics used by Adobe against a Russian citizen in the USA. I believe it is important we keep the focus on Adobe, not the US government. Corporate behavior is a lot easier to change quickly than US law. -Bill PS: If you like the attached logo, send a note to dgross@mimetic.com and tell him how cool it is. Feel free to use the logo as part of any protests or campaigns you may come up with. ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? -------------- next part -------------- Skipped content of type multipart/appledouble From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 11:10:54 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov][alex@pilosoft.com: sklyarov, cont'd] Message-ID: <20010718111054.F8506@zork.net> ----- Forwarded message from Alex Pilosov ----- Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 12:14:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Alex Pilosov To: dc-stuff@dis.org Subject: sklyarov, cont'd Andy Malyshev, the other person from elcomsoft, posted more information about it on http://www.passwords.ru/arrest.htm Translation: >From 11 to 16th of July I was at Las Vegas for DefCon 9 conference alongside my coworker Dmitry Sklyarov who was presenting at the conference. In the morning of July 16th, we left the hotel and decided to go to airport. There were approximately 1.5 hours till our flight. Right before we went through the doors, two persons approached us, shouting "Hands on the wall, FBI". Thinking its a someone's bad joke (and there were a lot of jokes about the feds at the conference), Dmitry laughend and even tried to answer back,. But he was rudely told again "Hands on the wall". I was asked for a key from the hotel room and asked for an interview. A little bit later, Dmitry was brought into the room, he was already handcuffed. Two more FBI employees who apparently controlled the street, arrived later. Dmitry asked for handcuffs to be moved forward, as its very unconfortable to sit with hands cuffed behind your back. He was denied that request. FBI employee introduced himself and said that there are no claims against me, and they have arrived to arrest Dmitry. They politely asked to talk to me. To my question "Why was Dmitry arrested" the answer was that he was charged with violation of DMCA. Initiator of a process and prosecution was Adobe Corp. No further details were told to me, they only said that they are executing orders. I was asked a few questions, to which they obviously knew answers. They asked me to take Dmitry's stuff, motivating it "They might get lost in US". To the question about Dmitry's future, they said he'll be taken to the FBI local office, where they'll clear up some questions, and then to the judge who will make the final decision. All of above happened in Alexis Park Hotel, Las Vegas NV. On the road to LA I was followed, quite [unconspiciously | rudely]. When I tried to make a phone call in airport, a cop ran to the neighbouring phone, pretending to make a call, but he didn't. Details about the conflict you can read at Elcomsoft's site:http://www.elcomsoft.com/aebpr.html Official report of FBI agent who arrested Dmitry you can see here: http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=168 -alex ----- End forwarded message ----- (That document on planetebook.com is actually the affivadit submitted before the arrest.) -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 11:11:51 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]News links In-Reply-To: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F4B9@mail.roundtable.com.au>; from karl.deabrew@binarything.com on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 07:49:02AM -0400 References: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F4B9@mail.roundtable.com.au> Message-ID: <20010718111151.A22106@zork.net> begin Karl De Abrew quotation: > We're maintaining a full list here at: > http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=170 This is good stuff. Seth, perhaps you should add a link to this in the public information page for this list. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 11:14:14 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Adobe Disinvestment Campaign In-Reply-To: ; from bill@scannell.org on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 01:10:38PM -0500 References: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010718111414.G8506@zork.net> Bill Scannell writes: > PS: If you like the attached logo, send a note to dgross@mimetic.com and > tell him how cool it is. Feel free to use the logo as part of any protests > or campaigns you may come up with. At the risk of dragging in somewhat unrelated issues, http://www.burnallgifs.org/ -- last time a Silicon Valley company was protested for making legal threats against software developers, it was Unisys, with their LZW patent. This situation is much more serious, with an individual's personal liberty at stake, but it would be cool if you could have a non-GIF version of your logo. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From bill at scannell.org Wed Jul 18 11:15:52 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Sklyarov Defence Fund In-Reply-To: <002b01c10fb4$c8dc5f60$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> Message-ID: Is there anyone (EFF?) that can start a defence fund for Sklyarov? In addition, I spoke to both of his colleagues and they are also running pretty low on cash, something that will be a problem if they need to stay in the US for any length of time. Ideas, anyone? -Bill ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 11:18:33 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Adobe Disinvestment Campaign In-Reply-To: ; from bill@scannell.org on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 01:10:38PM -0500 References: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010718111833.A22633@zork.net> begin Bill Scannell quotation: > The logo is meant to symbolise the Stalinist tactics used by Adobe > against a Russian citizen in the USA. It's cute, but it's in the GIF format, which is subject to patent claims by the Unisys corporation. See http://burnallgifs.org for the full story. I have converted it to png, a superior format to GIF that suffers no patent encumbrances: http://zork.net/pub/boycottadobe.png -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 11:22:34 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]News links In-Reply-To: <20010718111151.A22106@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 11:11:51AM -0700 References: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F4B9@mail.roundtable.com.au> <20010718111151.A22106@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010718112234.I8506@zork.net> Nick Moffitt writes: > begin Karl De Abrew quotation: > > We're maintaining a full list here at: > > http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=170 > > This is good stuff. Seth, perhaps you should add a link to > this in the public information page for this list. I agree and have done so. Keep up the good work, folks. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 11:24:59 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Free Skylarov Street Action Strike Force! In-Reply-To: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 09:30:35AM -0700 References: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010718112459.B22633@zork.net> begin Klepht quotation: > Oh, yeah: anyone banked "freeskylarov.org" yet? > P.S. A "Free Skylarov" web page would probably get ./'d. We'd have to grab "freesklyarov" as well as the misspelling above. The machine that hosts this mailing list could support a freesklyarov.org Web site, and come through a slashdotting fairly intact. It's sitting largely alone on a 600kbps SDSL link, so it's not a super powerhouse, but it has survived slashdotting before. > P.P.S. Is Don Marti involved yet? Wearing his burnallgifs-style hat, I'm not sure. But if you were to send him an article on the Sklyarov case, I'm sure he'd be able to get it published. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to Wed Jul 18 11:38:15 2001 From: noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to (robyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Sklyarov Defence Fund In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Has anyone contacted Jeff Moss yet? I get a strong sense from the people on dc-stuff and #dc-stuff that they want to help out; they just need some direction. Ideally, a paypal acct or something similar to which they can donate their nickels and dimes. On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Bill Scannell wrote: > Is there anyone (EFF?) that can start a defence fund for Sklyarov? In > addition, I spoke to both of his colleagues and they are also running pretty > low on cash, something that will be a problem if they need to stay in the US > for any length of time. > > Ideas, anyone? > > -Bill > ? > > Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? > > ? > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From bill at scannell.org Wed Jul 18 11:48:24 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Sklyarov Defence Fund In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think we all know that Jeff Moss would have trouble organising the consumption of ale in a fermented beverage production facility. From what I understand from Alexander (Sklyarov's colleague), Moss has done f*uck all to help out. Don't hold your breath waiting for Moss to get his act together. -Bill on 18.7.01 13:38, robyn at noise@noisebox.cypherpunks.to wrote: > Has anyone contacted Jeff Moss yet? I get a strong sense from the people > on dc-stuff and #dc-stuff that they want to help out; they just need some > direction. Ideally, a paypal acct or something similar to which they can > donate their nickels and dimes. > > On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Bill Scannell wrote: > >> Is there anyone (EFF?) that can start a defence fund for Sklyarov? In >> addition, I spoke to both of his colleagues and they are also running pretty >> low on cash, something that will be a problem if they need to stay in the US >> for any length of time. >> >> Ideas, anyone? >> >> -Bill >> ? >> >> Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? >> >> ? >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> free-sklyarov mailing list >> free-sklyarov@zork.net >> http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From mvb at telebyte.nl Wed Jul 18 11:53:07 2001 From: mvb at telebyte.nl (Marcel van Beurden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]EFF In-Reply-To: <002b01c10fb4$c8dc5f60$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> Message-ID: <3B55F733.2271.22F9C5@localhost> > EFF has numerous pages on DMCA issues and their involvement in various legal > cases. At the risk of sounding like an advertisement, please consider being > a member and making a donation. The large corporations that bought and paid > for bad laws like the DMCA have all the money in the world to fund their > legal departments and harass people. I'm getting my credit card right now... > It is very embarrassing to see my country's legal system used as a blunt > instrument to protect corporate bullies. I'm happy to see there are also sane Americans. Go and multiply ! ;-) Marcel (The Netherlands) From kfoss at planetpdf.com Wed Jul 18 11:42:50 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]News links In-Reply-To: <20010718111151.A22106@zork.net> References: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F4B9@mail.roundtable.com.au> <20010718111151.A22106@zork.net> Message-ID: Thanks! We began covering this brewing legal situation since June 22 when Vladimir Katlakov sent a press release for their new Advanced eBook Processor product to our Planet PDF and Planet eBook Web sites. Planet eBook was the first to break the story of the arrest, and the two sites coontinue working on some original content relevant to the story and potential court trial. The original AEBPR press release is among the documents we've now re-posted, one copy of which is at: http://www.planetpdf.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=1542 If you are aware of significant coverage or related information that we don't have listed at the URL below, please feel free to let us know at one or both of the following addresses: mailto:editor@planetebook.com and/or mailto:editor@planetpdf.com We're trying to be non-judgmental in our coverage, so we're interested in presenting both perspectives and letting readers form their own opinions. >begin Karl De Abrew quotation: >> We're maintaining a full list here at: >> http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=170 > > This is good stuff. Seth, perhaps you should add a link to >this in the public information page for this list. rgds ~ Kurt -- ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network From noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to Wed Jul 18 12:00:36 2001 From: noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to (robyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Sklyarov Defence Fund In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I wasn't clear. Mea culpa. What I wanted to know was whether Jeff had some "official" thoughts on the topic before I began directly soliciting funds from defcon goers (who appear eager to help as soon as we've got some place to point them). On a related topic, are any of the 2600 people on board yet? I'd be happy to figure out how to set up a defense fund this afternoon, but I'd rather rely on someone who's done it before. -- noise. On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Bill Scannell wrote: > I think we all know that Jeff Moss would have trouble organising the > consumption of ale in a fermented beverage production facility. From what I > understand from Alexander (Sklyarov's colleague), Moss has done f*uck all to > help out. > > Don't hold your breath waiting for Moss to get his act together. > > -Bill > From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Wed Jul 18 12:00:06 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]juridical procedures Message-ID: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk> Does anyone know the juridical procedures in such case? How long can it take until his next appearance in the court? Is there any source of information about Califironian laws? anton From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 12:09:27 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]juridical procedures In-Reply-To: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk>; from a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 08:00:06PM +0100 References: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20010718120927.D22633@zork.net> begin Anton Chterenlikht quotation: > Does anyone know the juridical procedures in such case? How long can > it take until his next appearance in the court? Is there any source > of information about Califironian laws? My impression is that it is a federal case that happens to be tried in California. That's why the FBI were brought in in Las Vegas. Of course, I'm not even a proper armchair legal student, let alone a lawyer. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 12:16:54 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]juridical procedures In-Reply-To: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk>; from a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 08:00:06PM +0100 References: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20010718121654.O8506@zork.net> Anton Chterenlikht writes: > Does anyone know the juridical procedures in such case? I'm _not a lawyer_ and will give you my own understanding of the situation. Unlike other previous DMCA cases, this is a criminal case, not a civil case. This means, among other things, that Mr. Sklyarov has additional protections (such as the privilege against self-incrimination, the right to counsel, and the presumption of innocence) but that the plaintiff is the government and can use certain government powers in its investigation and prosecution of the case. In addition, it means that Mr. Sklyarov can be sentenced to jail if he is convicted. Self-incrimination: Mr. Sklyarov cannot be compelled to say anything which could be used against him, or to testify. He must be advised that statements he makes to police can be used against him. Counsel: If Mr. Sklyarov does not have a lawyer, the court must appoint a lawyer to represent him for free. The lawyer's fees must be paid by the government (although in practice the lawyer will normally be a public defender who is already employed by the government). Presumption of innocence: The court and the government must assume that Mr. Sklyarov is innocent until and unless he is proven guilty. They must not claim that it has been proven that he has violated the law; he retains his civil rights in general (although he can be detained!); and members of the public are not supposed to claim that he has been convicted or that he has committed a crime. (If they do, Mr. Sklyarov can sue them for defamation.) The U.S. Attorney and his colleagues in the Department of Justice are allowed to claim that Mr. Sklyarov has committed a crime, but they must not claim that this has been proven. There are also other constitutional rights such as the right to a speedy and public trial, as well as other standards for the treatment of prisoners and the disposition of some of their requests. It's really quite elaborate. A trial would be governed by the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, which you can find, for example, at http://www.law.ukans.edu/research/frcrimI.htm There's lots of other procedure (arraignment, bail, etc.) and I don't know where to find information on that. > How long can it take > until his next appearance in the court? I believe his arraignment will be very soon, because there are strict limits on how long people can be detained before they are charged with something. I will call the San Francisco public defender today to see if there is any information. > Is there any source of information about > Califironian laws? It's U.S. Federal law rather than California state law. There are many such sources; a few are http://www.findlaw.com/ http://www.law.cornell.edu/ -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 12:21:44 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]juridical procedures In-Reply-To: <20010718120927.D22633@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 12:09:27PM -0700 References: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk> <20010718120927.D22633@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010718122144.P8506@zork.net> Nick Moffitt writes: > begin Anton Chterenlikht quotation: > > Does anyone know the juridical procedures in such case? How long can > > it take until his next appearance in the court? Is there any source > > of information about Califironian laws? > > My impression is that it is a federal case that happens to be > tried in California. That's why the FBI were brought in in Las Vegas. > Of course, I'm not even a proper armchair legal student, let alone a > lawyer. This is correct; the complaint was filed in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California, which is a Federal court that sits in California. It does not appear that there are _any_ claims under California law. The DMCA is a Federal law which was an amendment to the Copyright Act, a Federal law which makes up Title 17 of the United States Code. The Northern District sits in three locations: in San Francisco, in San Jose, and in Oakland. All of these are in San Francisco Bay Area and somewhat accessible by public transit. The U.S. Attorney's Office which brought the complaint is located in the same building in San Francisco where the Court sits in this city. I was there yesterday, by a complete co-incidence, but I didn't go inside. I'm still trying to find out where the District Court keeps prisoners: it seems that they have three different detention locations, depending on which location hearings are to be held. John Young said that Mr. Sklyarov was being taken to Santa Clara County (i.e. San Jose), but the FBI agents told the press he was being taken to San Francisco. San Francisco certainly makes more sense to me if the prosecutors who are trying to prosecute him are located here and the judge who issued the warrant is located here. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From katie at eff.org Wed Jul 18 12:21:41 2001 From: katie at eff.org (Katie Lucas) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Sklyarov Defence Fund In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.1.20010718120857.025fcb50@pop3.spa.norton.antivirus> Just to let you guys know, the Electronic Frontier Foundation is working on this case, along with several others. We will have a statement released some time today, which will be sent on to this list. Thanks for all your support. If you would like to support our work and donate to a defense fund, please visit http://www.eff.org/support/ and note in the Your Most Important Reason/comments field that your donation is meant for our Sklyarov fund. Katie Lucas Executive Assistant Electronic Frontier Foundation 415-436-9333 x104 www.eff.org From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 12:30:51 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]juridical procedures In-Reply-To: <20010718122144.P8506@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 12:21:44PM -0700 References: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk> <20010718120927.D22633@zork.net> <20010718122144.P8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010718123051.H22633@zork.net> begin The ASCII Floating Head of Seth David Schoen quotation: > I'm still trying to find out where the District Court keeps > prisoners: it seems that they have three different detention > locations, depending on which location hearings are to be held. > John Young said that Mr. Sklyarov was being taken to Santa Clara > County (i.e. San Jose), but the FBI agents told the press he was > being taken to San Francisco. San Francisco certainly makes more > sense to me if the prosecutors who are trying to prosecute him are > located here and the judge who issued the warrant is located here. However, many people use the name "San Francisco" to refer to the whole San Francisco Bay Area. It's like the way people from Bellevue say they're from Seattle, or people from Iowa never mention the city or town they're from. It provides enough information that a large number of people will get a feeling for the location. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 12:35:31 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]juridical procedures In-Reply-To: <20010718121654.O8506@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 12:16:54PM -0700 References: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk> <20010718121654.O8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010718123531.Q8506@zork.net> Seth David Schoen writes: > I believe his arraignment will be very soon, because there are strict > limits on how long people can be detained before they are charged with > something. I will call the San Francisco public defender today to see > if there is any information. Argh, the information I found before is the _California_ Public Defender in San Francisco. I can't find any phone number for the Federal Public Defender here (although I have a mailing address...). As always, the Federal and State Public Defenders are quite different people. If anybody knows the number for the Northern District of California's Federal Public Defender, please let me know. Other people have also suggested calling the Russian Embassy -- actually the "Consulate General of Russia in San Francisco": http://www.vldbros.com/consul/english/main.htm I have not called them. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From bill at scannell.org Wed Jul 18 12:33:52 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]www.boycottadobe.com is live! In-Reply-To: <20010718111414.G8506@zork.net> Message-ID: An Adobe disinvestment campaign has now been launched at http://www.boycottadobe.com . The only thing those bastards at Adobe understand is money. Let's show them our displeasure at the arrest of white hat hacker Dmitry Sklyarov. If nothing else, it will make other companies think twice about using the DMCA to turn security experts into felons. Thought should not be a crime. And so it begins... -Bill ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 12:42:19 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]juridical procedures In-Reply-To: <20010718123531.Q8506@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 12:35:31PM -0700 References: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk> <20010718121654.O8506@zork.net> <20010718123531.Q8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010718124219.I22633@zork.net> begin The ASCII Floating Head of Seth David Schoen quotation: > If anybody knows the number for the Northern District of California's > Federal Public Defender, please let me know. Other people have also > suggested calling the Russian Embassy -- actually the "Consulate General > of Russia in San Francisco": http://www.internships-usa.com/fedlaw/fed47.htm I found it through a google search. It's an internship advert, but it lists: Federal Public Defender Northern District of California Contact: Mr. Eric R. Krebs Chief Research and Writing Attorney Federal Public Defender Northern District of California 450 Golden Gate Avenue 19th Floor San Francisco, CA 94102 Phone: 415-436-7700 FAX: 415-436-7706 Perhaps the names have changed, but I'll wager the phone and address are still valid. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From pablos at kadrevis.com Wed Jul 18 12:42:32 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Sklyarov Defence Fund In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3765860.995460152@[10.0.1.220]> Just send PayPal to dmitry@shmoo.com or dmitry@boycottadobe.com and we'll make sure it gets to him. pablos. --On Wednesday, July 18, 2001 1:00 PM -0600 robyn wrote: > I wasn't clear. Mea culpa. > > What I wanted to know was whether Jeff had some "official" thoughts on > the topic before I began directly soliciting funds from defcon goers (who > appear eager to help as soon as we've got some place to point them). > > On a related topic, are any of the 2600 people on board yet? I'd be happy > to figure out how to set up a defense fund this afternoon, but I'd rather > rely on someone who's done it before. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From jim at media.mit.edu Wed Jul 18 12:53:13 2001 From: jim at media.mit.edu (Jim Youll) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Re: free-sklyarov digest, Vol 1 #3 - 21 msgs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200107181952.PAA24506@dns1.newmediagroup.com> I've just sent in my donation EFF and specifically noted that this matter was what prompted it. Ask your friends to get on board this issue now. You can turn the donation into a membership. To really help the cause, add $20 to your donation to cover materials and shipping if you want the hat and/or t-shirt. From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 12:53:41 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]juridical procedures In-Reply-To: <20010718124219.I22633@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 12:42:19PM -0700 References: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk> <20010718121654.O8506@zork.net> <20010718123531.Q8506@zork.net> <20010718124219.I22633@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010718125341.S8506@zork.net> Nick Moffitt writes: > Federal Public Defender Northern District of California Thanks, Nick. That was it. The Public Defender's office told me to call the U.S. Marshal Service and gave me a number. So I'm trying to get through there. Ramona Jackson, U.S. Marshal Service (415)436-7678 They would have custody of him as he is transferred to San Francisco. I will try to keep calling and get an update and post it here. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From eric at tully.com Wed Jul 18 12:59:34 2001 From: eric at tully.com (Eric Tully) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Being in Jail Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010718155934.00968680@208.231.13.113> In addition to giving to the Legal Defense Fund, is there anything that Dmitry needs in jail right now that we can help with? To hear support on the news? Letters of support? (I understand that we don't know where he's being held right now). Money? Has anyone like Kevin Mitnick ever said what they wanted or wished for while they were in jail? Especially during the first few weeks? I imagine he's scared. Or maybe he's confident. - Eric From andrea at gravitt.org Wed Jul 18 13:07:08 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]www.boycottadobe.com is live! Message-ID: <002e01c10fc5$431d6b60$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> Ok, expected it be slashdotted any minute now... I still can't see it, myself. Andrea From bill at scannell.org Wed Jul 18 13:11:26 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]www.boycottadobe.com is live! In-Reply-To: <002e01c10fc5$431d6b60$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> Message-ID: The IP for www.boycottadobe.com is 216.240.45.91 . Try therre until propogation is complete. Bill on 18.7.01 15:07, Andrea at andrea@gravitt.org wrote: > Ok, expected it be slashdotted any minute now... > > I still can't see it, myself. > > Andrea > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From caiaphas at operamail.com Wed Jul 18 13:23:10 2001 From: caiaphas at operamail.com (caiaphas@operamail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]irony? Message-ID: http://www.boycottadobe.com/ - nice site, but... Boycott Adobe Am I missing something? Caiaphas From pablos at kadrevis.com Wed Jul 18 13:24:54 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]juridical procedures In-Reply-To: <20010718125341.S8506@zork.net> References: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk> <20010718121654.O8506@zork.net> <20010718123531.Q8506@zork.net> <20010718124219.I22633@zork.net> <20010718125341.S8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <3918460.995462694@[10.0.1.220]> Seth, thanks for tracking down these numbers. I'm holding off on making calls so we don't bug them too much, but it is really important to get the following information: 1 Public Defender assigned to case, including contact information 2 Bail Hearing date/time/location. 3 Current location of Dmitry, and who can have access to him. Please post this information as soon as you get it. If you need help, just let me know. Thanks, pablos. --On Wednesday, July 18, 2001 12:53 PM -0700 Seth David Schoen wrote: > Nick Moffitt writes: > >> Federal Public Defender Northern District of California > > Thanks, Nick. That was it. > > The Public Defender's office told me to call the U.S. Marshal Service > and gave me a number. So I'm trying to get through there. > > Ramona Jackson, U.S. Marshal Service (415)436-7678 > > They would have custody of him as he is transferred to San Francisco. > I will try to keep calling and get an update and post it here. > > -- > Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study > when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for > perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have > leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From andrey_s at atlas.csd.net Wed Jul 18 13:25:50 2001 From: andrey_s at atlas.csd.net (Andrey Shapovalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Jennifer Granick Message-ID: Can she be involved in defending Dmitry? Has she been contacted about this? Andrey From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 13:26:55 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov][dmarti@zgp.org: Re: [CrackMonkey] Free Dimitry Skylarov!] Message-ID: <20010718132655.M22633@zork.net> Wouldn't it be interesting if Don Marti had posted the following? ----- Forwarded message from Don Marti ----- begin Mr. Bad quotation of Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 09:17:11AM -0700: > WHY picket the U.S. Attorney's office, when Adobe is right down in San > Jose? It's been pointed out that many reasonable people might want to download an "e-book" on one computer (say, a home machine on DSL) and read it on another (say, a laptop with no permanent net connection). And don't you think it would be nice to go down to the park and read a (n e-) book under a tree, and maybe talk about it with your friends and sip a cool beverage? If that park happens to be in downtown San Jose, and Dan Gillmor happens to walk by, that would be nice too. -- Don Marti "I've never sent or received a GIF in my life." http://zgp.org/~dmarti -- Bruce Schneier, Secrets and Lies, p. 246. dmarti@zgp.org Free the Web, burn all GIFs: http://burnallgifs.org/ _______________________________________________ CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey ----- End forwarded message ----- -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 13:28:57 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Jennifer Granick In-Reply-To: ; from andrey_s@atlas.csd.net on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 02:25:50PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20010718132857.W8506@zork.net> Andrey Shapovalov writes: > Can she be involved in defending Dmitry? Has she been contacted about > this? She knew about it fully hours before I did: the way I learned about the situation was a forwarded message she sent to EFF to let them know about it. EFF has been talking to Jennifer Granick today about this case. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From jono at microshaft.org Wed Jul 18 12:48:47 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]IT SICKOUT - Read and pass along In-Reply-To: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 09:30:35AM -0700 References: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010718124847.B51906@networkcommand.com> ----- Forwarded message ----- IT SICKOUT---IT SICKOUT---IT SICKOUT---IT SICKOUT READ AND PASS ALONG The government and corporate america are setting a very bad precedent with the arrest of Skylarov. We need to send a string message back to them. Currently, there are no organizations that represent IT workers and the people who keep company email, networks, and infrastructure running. The EFF is supporting the defense of Skylarov, but the DCMA is the real issue. It must be reviewed and abolished. This may be a bad time in the industry, but it was a time like this that other Unions formed in order to have some representation. Well, we need and deserve the same. So, the short term action is an IT SICKOUT. Just one day to protest the DMCA and the arrest of Skylarov. Long term action, create some professional guilds, unions, etc. to prevent these laws from changing our Freedoms. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/adhoc_it READ AND PASS ALONG IT SICKOUT---IT SICKOUT---IT SICKOUT---IT SICKOUT ----- End forwarded message ----- On 18-Jul-2001, Klepht wrote: > Hey, so, what's the plan? What are we going to do? > > For Bayareans, I'd suggest that we do a protest outside of Adobe > sometime early next week -- Monday or Tuesday. It's not like > Skylarov's locked up in a conference room in Adobe somewhere, but > they're the party with the most to lose in terms of publicity. > > Also, it might be cool to do some outreach to Russian groups, if they > exist and are interested (and there sure are a lot of Russians around > the Bay Area). _We_ tend to think of this as an information freedom > issue, but I think there's some international law issues, too. > > Other potential allies: > > Local 2600 Meetings > EFF (?) > > Oh, yeah: anyone banked "freeskylarov.org" yet? > > ~Klepht > > P.S. A "Free Skylarov" web page would probably get ./'d. > > P.P.S. Is Don Marti involved yet? > > -- > klepht@eleutheria.org > http://www.eleutheria.org/ > Free Skylarov! > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010718/66073ff2/attachment.pgp From noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to Wed Jul 18 14:05:54 2001 From: noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to (robyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]funding? Message-ID: Pablos, what's the going rate/turnaround time for a 2 or 3 color bumper sticker? The Boycott Adobe logo is *nice*. noise. From proclus at iname.com Wed Jul 18 13:08:59 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (Michael L. Love) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]changes to XPDF Message-ID: <3B55ECDB.3060209@iname.com> We could have a version of XPDF that utilizes this code to view the eBook files with your computer. XPDF is GPL'd. http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/gnu-darwin/xpdf-0.91/ Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From pablos at kadrevis.com Wed Jul 18 14:11:53 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Bay Area Free Sklyarov Meeting Tonight In-Reply-To: <20010718111054.F8506@zork.net> References: <20010718111054.F8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <4087673.995465513@[10.0.1.220]> For those in the Bay Area who want to get together and discuss this case, Robyn Wagner and I will be hosting a meeting tonight at her house in the Hayes Valley district of San Francisco. This will be an informal meeting, and we'll try to have various people share their knowledge about how to help out in cases like this. We'll meet at 7:30 p.m. at 709 Buchanan, San Francisco. Those coming north on 101 should take the Fell street exit. Call 415.420.3806 if you need more info. Call 415.552.5771 if you gets lost. Everyone is encouraged to bring money to contribute to the cause, and we'll get it to the right folks. Thanks, pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to Wed Jul 18 14:16:23 2001 From: noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to (robyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Bay Area Free Sklyarov Meeting Tonight In-Reply-To: <4087673.995465513@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: Please RSVP if you can. -- noise. On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: > For those in the Bay Area who want to get together and discuss this case, > Robyn Wagner and I will be hosting a meeting tonight at her house in the > Hayes Valley district of San Francisco. This will be an informal meeting, > and we'll try to have various people share their knowledge about how to > help out in cases like this. > > We'll meet at 7:30 p.m. at 709 Buchanan, San Francisco. Those coming north > on 101 should take the Fell street exit. > > ddr=709+Buchanan&csz=San+Francisco&country=us&Get%A0Map=Get+Map> > > Call 415.420.3806 if you need more info. > Call 415.552.5771 if you gets lost. > > Everyone is encouraged to bring money to contribute to the cause, and we'll > get it to the right folks. > > Thanks, pablos. > -- > Pablos Kadrevis > pablos@kadrevis.com > 415.420.3806 > www.shmoo.com/~pablos > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 14:24:14 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Bay Area Free Sklyarov Meeting Tonight In-Reply-To: ; from noise@noisebox.cypherpunks.to on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 03:16:23PM -0600 References: <4087673.995465513@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <20010718142414.A22633@zork.net> begin robyn quotation: > Please RSVP if you can. [I plan to be there] > On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: > > We'll meet at 7:30 p.m. at 709 Buchanan, San Francisco. Those > > coming north on 101 should take the Fell street exit. Those coming on Muni or BART should get off at Powell or Montgomery St Stations and catch the 21 Hayes bus, which will take you to Hayes and Buchanan. Muni Metro lets you off at the Van Ness underground station, which is a level walk to 709 Buchanan with no nasty hills in between. The 5 fulton lets off at McAllister and Buchanan, which is a few blocks away, and the 22 Fillmore runs nearby as well. Here is a transit map of the general area: http://www.transitinfo.org/cgi-bin/muni/map/system?MODE=ZOOM&Map.x=400&Map.y=264&ZOOM=1&XPART=1.5&YPART=1 Note Van Ness Station on the right. the diagonal street is Market. You can see Buchanan labeled right about where the final E in "HAIGHT FILLMORE" is. you can zoom out for greater context. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 14:28:59 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Still no contact with Marshals or Consulate Message-ID: <20010718142859.E8506@zork.net> I have still not gotten through to Ramona Jackson at the U.S. Marshal Service. I have also been trying the Russian Consul General in San Francisco at (415)928-6878. I got through earlier to their "Passport/Legal Information" line (wondering if legal information included this sort of situation) and spoke to a man who said that that division _did not_ have any information about Russian citizens accused of crimes in the United States. Instead, he told me to call the main Consulate number, (415)928-6878, and ask for a Mr. Nebiwayev (phonetic). So I've been trying with no luck. People on this list could try reaching Mr. Nebiwayev -- but if you do reach him, please let this list know, so that other people won't duplicate your effort. I wouldn't recommend having a lot of people trying the Marshal Service, because they are probably less sympathetic to Mr. Sklyarov's situation. :-) I believe people at EFF are also still trying to check in with them. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From branden at deadbeast.net Wed Jul 18 14:23:30 2001 From: branden at deadbeast.net (Branden Robinson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov covered on NPR's All Things Considered today Message-ID: <20010718162330.A22353@deadbeast.net> Sorry if something's already been pasted about this. I checked the archives but I also just subscribed. As I write this, NPR's All Things Considered news program is running a story on Sklyarov. ATC generally runs their stories more than once during their time block (2.5 hours here), so those of you with interest may want to tune in. -- G. Branden Robinson | Psychology is really biology. Debian GNU/Linux | Biology is really chemistry. branden@deadbeast.net | Chemistry is really physics. http://www.deadbeast.net/~branden/ | Physics is really math. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010718/55805717/attachment.pgp From noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to Wed Jul 18 14:36:55 2001 From: noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to (robyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov covered on NPR's All Things Considered today In-Reply-To: <20010718162330.A22353@deadbeast.net> Message-ID: Should be available on the web after 10p ET. On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Branden Robinson wrote: > Sorry if something's already been pasted about this. I checked the > archives but I also just subscribed. > > As I write this, NPR's All Things Considered news program is running a > story on Sklyarov. > > ATC generally runs their stories more than once during their time block > (2.5 hours here), so those of you with interest may want to tune in. > > From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 14:35:58 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Venue? Message-ID: <20010718143558.H8506@zork.net> The U.S. Attorney's press release came from the USAO in San Francisco but the complaint was filed in San Jose. Does arraignment have to be in the particular venue where the complaint was filed, or could it be in any venue in the District? -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to Wed Jul 18 14:44:52 2001 From: noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to (robyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Venue? In-Reply-To: <20010718143558.H8506@zork.net> Message-ID: Just talked to an ex-AUSA. He will most likely be before a San Jose judge. The location of the press release is consistent with the fact that San Francisco is the main NDCA office, and would generally be in charge of releasing statements for the whole district. On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Seth David Schoen wrote: > The U.S. Attorney's press release came from the USAO in San Francisco > but the complaint was filed in San Jose. Does arraignment have to be > in the particular venue where the complaint was filed, or could it be > in any venue in the District? From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 14:48:03 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov still in Las Vegas Message-ID: <20010718144803.J8506@zork.net> Lee Tien at EFF says that another EFF staff member "has confirmed that Dmitry has not been transferred to California yet" and is still detained in Las Vegas. He says that it is important to find local (Bay Area) people who could vouch for Sklyarov -- to counter the flight risk problem at the bail hearing. If anyone has contacts in the local Russian community or knows of people in California with a connection to Sklyarov, please contact Lee Tien at EFF. Bail for foreign nationals is apparently quite difficult and connections in the local area are important. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 15:02:52 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Venue? In-Reply-To: ; from noise@noisebox.cypherpunks.to on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 03:44:52PM -0600 References: <20010718143558.H8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010718150252.K8506@zork.net> robyn writes: > Just talked to an ex-AUSA. > > He will most likely be before a San Jose judge. The location of the press > release is consistent with the fact that San Francisco is the main NDCA > office, and would generally be in charge of releasing statements for the > whole district. Is it appropriate to call the Clerk in the District Court in San Jose tomorrow morning? Would the Clerk consider questions about scheduled arraignments normal, or would he or she think that I'm lazy and ought to have a damned PACER account? By the way, Adobe's headquarters are in San Jose: http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/contact.html Adobe Systems Incorporated 345 Park Avenue San Jose, California 95110-2704 USA Tel: 408-536-6000 Fax: 408-537-6000 (consistent with the information in "whois adobe.com") The San Jose venue for the Northern District: http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/CourtInfo.nsf/6f311f8841e7da2488256405006827f0/f3b46c67b334132e88256682007f6ba9?OpenDocument 280 South 1st Street San Jose, CA 95113 Phone: 408-535-5364 PLEASE DO NOT HARASS ADOBE ON THE TELEPHONE OR SEND THEM ANY OTHER KIND OF HARASSING OR THREATENING COMMUNICATION! (The same goes for the U.S. Marshal Service, the U.S. Attorney's Office, and the U.S. District Court.) Of course, it is OK to send criticism to Adobe and to the U.S. Attorney. Let your criticism be civil and relevant. When people sent threats to the MPAA -- following the MPAA's reprehensible prosecution of 2600 Enterprises -- the MPAA actually quoted these in court and used them to hurt the defendants' case! -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 15:04:14 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [free-sklyarov]juridical procedures In-Reply-To: <20010718175334.A30863@cluebot.com>; from lists@politechbot.com on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 05:53:35PM -0400 References: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk> <20010718121654.O8506@zork.net> <20010718175334.A30863@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010718150414.L8506@zork.net> Declan McCullagh writes: > Minor point: There has been at least one other DMCA criminal case. > Seth, you should reread my articles. :) Is that the case in Florida about satellite TV? I've been reading _so many_ articles about the Sklyarov case today -- I apologize for missing yours. :-) -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to Wed Jul 18 15:07:10 2001 From: noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to (robyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Venue? In-Reply-To: <20010718150252.K8506@zork.net> Message-ID: I have a PACER account. The password should be at home. On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Seth David Schoen wrote: > Is it appropriate to call the Clerk in the District Court in San Jose > tomorrow morning? > > Would the Clerk consider questions about scheduled arraignments > normal, or would he or she think that I'm lazy and ought to have a > damned PACER account? > > By the way, Adobe's headquarters are in San Jose: > > http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/contact.html > > Adobe Systems Incorporated > 345 Park Avenue > San Jose, California 95110-2704 > USA > > Tel: 408-536-6000 > Fax: 408-537-6000 > > (consistent with the information in "whois adobe.com") > > The San Jose venue for the Northern District: > > http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/CourtInfo.nsf/6f311f8841e7da2488256405006827f0/f3b46c67b334132e88256682007f6ba9?OpenDocument > > 280 South 1st Street > San Jose, CA 95113 > > Phone: > 408-535-5364 > > PLEASE DO NOT HARASS ADOBE ON THE TELEPHONE OR SEND THEM ANY OTHER > KIND OF HARASSING OR THREATENING COMMUNICATION! (The same goes for > the U.S. Marshal Service, the U.S. Attorney's Office, and the U.S. > District Court.) Of course, it is OK to send criticism to Adobe and > to the U.S. Attorney. Let your criticism be civil and relevant. > > When people sent threats to the MPAA -- following the MPAA's > reprehensible prosecution of 2600 Enterprises -- the MPAA actually > quoted these in court and used them to hurt the defendants' case! From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 15:11:50 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov still in Las Vegas In-Reply-To: <20010718144803.J8506@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 02:48:03PM -0700 References: <20010718144803.J8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010718151150.C22633@zork.net> begin The ASCII Floating Head of Seth David Schoen quotation: > He says that it is important to find local (Bay Area) people who > could vouch for Sklyarov -- to counter the flight risk problem at > the bail hearing. If anyone has contacts in the local Russian > community or knows of people in California with a connection to > Sklyarov, please contact Lee Tien at EFF. I have lost touch, but I used to have some contact with the Russian community in San Francisco. If pushed, I could call up some people I used to know and try to figure out where to look. These folks are probably kind of mad that I lost touch, though. It should be helpful to find out Dimitry's father's name. Russians refer to people with a patronymic called "ochestvo" (pronounced OH-chest-vuh). Family names are usually reserved for official communications and public figures, and many people won't know the family name of their friends and neighbors. At any rate, it makes it easier to refer to him in conversation. Also, some people may know him as "Dima", which is a nickname for Dimitry. > Bail for foreign nationals is apparently quite difficult and > connections in the local area are important. It may be easier to try and look in the other direction: find out from Dimitry's friends and family in Russia the names of anyone in the US who could vouch for him. Then ask those people if they know anyone in the San Francisco Bay Area. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From dmarti at zgp.org Wed Jul 18 15:12:17 2001 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Bay Area Free Sklyarov Meeting Tonight In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010718151217.A14030@zgp.org> begin robyn quotation of Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 03:16:23PM -0600: > Please RSVP if you can. I'm planning to come. My cell phone number is 650-743-8035. -- Don Marti "I've never sent or received a GIF in my life." http://zgp.org/~dmarti -- Bruce Schneier, Secrets and Lies, p. 246. dmarti@zgp.org Free the Web, burn all GIFs: http://burnallgifs.org/ From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 15:14:50 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] My messages Message-ID: <20010718151449.D22633@zork.net> My apologies if some of you haven't been able to read my replies. If you are using Microsoft Outlook (express or otherwise) without the aid of an exchange server, you will need to "view source" on the attachments you see. The reason this occurs is that outlook sees the word "begin" in my mails and assumes that what follows is a uuencoded file attachment. It's a fault on the part of Microsoft Outlook, and I am not in fact sending any attachments. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to Wed Jul 18 15:18:39 2001 From: noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to (robyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Venue? In-Reply-To: <20010718150252.K8506@zork.net> Message-ID: Without access to PACER right now, I manually searched the calendars of each of the San Jose NDCA judges. Nothing yet. http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/calendar.nsf/Calendars?OpenView From pablos at kadrevis.com Wed Jul 18 15:20:50 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] BoycottAdobe Logo In-Reply-To: <20010718111054.F8506@zork.net> References: <20010718111054.F8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <4336001.995469650@[10.0.1.220]> For all the EFF folks, I've attached a BoycottAdobe logo that can be used wherever you like. The EFF logo and link is now on the BoycottAdobe site. Hell, I even used PNG to keep everybody happy. Let me know if you need a GIF! pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: BoycottAdobeLogoWhite.png Type: image/png Size: 25566 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010718/ddd20d72/BoycottAdobeLogoWhite.png From owlswan at eff.org Wed Jul 18 15:28:38 2001 From: owlswan at eff.org (Henry Schwan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Still no contact with Marshals or Consulate In-Reply-To: <20010718142859.E8506@zork.net> Message-ID: the marshal service will undoubtedly give no information as they are deadly paranoid. I have been trying to find out who Alex Katalov in Las Vegas has talked to at the Consulate so that I do not overlap. I sent contact information to the Federal Public Defender in LV to be passed on to the PD in the venue where he is arraigned. It would be important to find him a sponsor in the Russian community so that it is more possible for him to have bail rather than rot in jail. We will probably not get much information about his when till he is here. as I said the marshals service is very paranoid that he might be waylaid so they give information only on need to know basis. Clerks, if the knew anything at all, would be embargoed from giving information. Also, since the marshals rarely move people alone, we don't know who he will be traveling with who might be a much greater security risk. We should keep the pressure up to get information though. I have been in touch with the US Attorney in San Jose he didn't know anything yet, but says I can stay in touch which I will be daily. Any information that people glean, I would appreciate, both so I can keep a central record of it and so that I do not duplicate efforts. thanks. On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Seth David Schoen wrote: > I have still not gotten through to Ramona Jackson at the U.S. Marshal > Service. > > I have also been trying the Russian Consul General in San Francisco > at (415)928-6878. I got through earlier to their "Passport/Legal > Information" line (wondering if legal information included this sort > of situation) and spoke to a man who said that that division _did not_ > have any information about Russian citizens accused of crimes in the > United States. > > Instead, he told me to call the main Consulate number, (415)928-6878, > and ask for a Mr. Nebiwayev (phonetic). So I've been trying with no > luck. > > People on this list could try reaching Mr. Nebiwayev -- but if you do > reach him, please let this list know, so that other people won't > duplicate your effort. > > I wouldn't recommend having a lot of people trying the Marshal Service, > because they are probably less sympathetic to Mr. Sklyarov's > situation. :-) I believe people at EFF are also still trying to check > in with them. > > -- Regards, Henry Schwan Paralegal Electronic Frontier Foundation (415)436-9333 x114 (415)436-9333 (fax) owlswan@eff.org From jennifer at granick.com Wed Jul 18 15:20:15 2001 From: jennifer at granick.com (Jennifer S. Granick) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [free-sklyarov]juridical procedures In-Reply-To: <20010718150414.L8506@zork.net> References: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk> <20010718121654.O8506@zork.net> <20010718175334.A30863@cluebot.com> <20010718150414.L8506@zork.net> Message-ID: At 3:04 PM -0700 7/18/01, Seth David Schoen wrote: >Declan McCullagh writes: > >> Minor point: There has been at least one other DMCA criminal case. >> Seth, you should reread my articles. :) > >Is that the case in Florida about satellite TV? > >I've been reading _so many_ articles about the Sklyarov case today -- I >apologize for missing yours. :-) > >-- >Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I >Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will >down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov That lawyer (Dario Diaz) says that his client was never charged, though, right? -- Jennifer Stisa Granick Stanford Law School Center for Internet and Society 559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, California 94305 (650) 724-0014 (650) 723-8440 fax jennifer@granick.com From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 15:31:34 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Venue? In-Reply-To: ; from noise@noisebox.cypherpunks.to on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 04:18:39PM -0600 References: <20010718150252.K8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010718153134.R8506@zork.net> robyn writes: > Without access to PACER right now, I manually searched the calendars of > each of the San Jose NDCA judges. Nothing yet. Thanks, that's useful. Can U.S. Magistrate Judges hold arraignment or bail hearings? What kinds of hearings can they hold, and what kinds of orders can they issue, in criminal cases? -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From mail at krel.org Wed Jul 18 15:45:51 2001 From: mail at krel.org (Ilya) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] exchange References: <20010718150252.K8506@zork.net> <20010718153134.R8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <008001c10fdb$6589f900$0100a8c0@ilya> Was the american spy Tobin released? Russia could exchange that drug seller for Sklyrov..... From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 16:02:48 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov covered on NPR's All Things Considered today In-Reply-To: <20010718162330.A22353@deadbeast.net>; from branden@deadbeast.net on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 04:23:30PM -0500 References: <20010718162330.A22353@deadbeast.net> Message-ID: <20010718160248.A7451@zork.net> Begin Branden Robinson quotation: > As I write this, NPR's All Things Considered news program is running a > story on Sklyarov. I'm listening from San Francisco on KALW (91.7 FM). They just announced it on the intro to the program, and should play it within the hour. If you're in the Bay Area, you shuld be able to pick it up. They also talk about the FBI misplacing computers and weapons, but that's not the story on Sklyarov. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From pablos at kadrevis.com Wed Jul 18 16:13:56 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boycott Adobe Online Store In-Reply-To: <20010718111054.F8506@zork.net> References: <20010718111054.F8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> We'll teach those Adobe Bastards to take on an army of unemployed dot commers with too much time on their hands... Check out the Boycott Adobe Merchandise pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 16:17:14 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [free-sklyarov]irony? In-Reply-To: ; from caiaphas@operamail.com on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 02:08:10AM +0545 References: Message-ID: <20010718161713.C7451@zork.net> Begin caiaphas@operamail.com quotation: > http://www.boycottadobe.com/ - nice site, but... > > > Boycott Adobe > > > Am I missing something? I see it too. Is this a joke? -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From eric at mostly.harmless.org Wed Jul 18 16:21:29 2001 From: eric at mostly.harmless.org (Eric Rachner) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF Membership Receipt (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:12:46 -0700 From: membership@eff.org To: eric@harmless.org Subject: EFF Membership Receipt Thank you very much for taking the time to fill out our membership application. This e-mail may serve as your receipt for your tax deductible donation to the Electronic Frontier Foundation. On 07/18/2001 you contributed $65 to the Electronic Frontier Foundation for a one year membership with the organization. Thank you. Our work is dependent upon your continued support. From proclus at iname.com Wed Jul 18 15:26:50 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [free-sklyarov]irony? In-Reply-To: <20010718161713.C7451@zork.net> Message-ID: <200107182226.SAA11523@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> GNU-Darwin is covering the boycott with no hypocrisy, but hypocrites are welcome... Just not Adobe hypocrites. http://gnu-darwin.sourceforge.net/news.html Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 16:30:26 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] irony? In-Reply-To: <200107182226.SAA11523@pico.mbg.cornell.edu>; from proclus@iname.com on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 06:26:50PM -0400 References: <20010718161713.C7451@zork.net> <200107182226.SAA11523@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <20010718163026.E7451@zork.net> Begin proclus@iname.com quotation: > GNU-Darwin is covering the boycott with no hypocrisy, but hypocrites > are welcome... Just not Adobe hypocrites. With respect, we are not their enemies; we're their customers. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From rabbi at quickie.net Wed Jul 18 16:30:58 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: Has anyone moved forward on the idea to organize a demonstration outside the Adobe building in San Jose? -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From proclus at iname.com Wed Jul 18 15:48:05 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (Michael L. Love) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] irony? References: <20010718161713.C7451@zork.net> <200107182226.SAA11523@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> <20010718163026.E7451@zork.net> Message-ID: <3B561225.5060603@iname.com> Nick Moffitt wrote: > Begin proclus@iname.com quotation: > >>GNU-Darwin is covering the boycott with no hypocrisy, but hypocrites >>are welcome... Just not Adobe hypocrites. >> > > With respect, we are not their enemies; we're their customers. > > No longer. Regards, proclus -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 16:44:09 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: ; from rabbi@quickie.net on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 04:30:58PM -0700 References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> Begin Len Sassaman quotation: > Has anyone moved forward on the idea to organize a demonstration > outside the Adobe building in San Jose? What would we demonstrate? After the DeCSS protest outside of the Sony Metreon in San Francisco, I have become soured on the notion of protests. They seem to me to be public declarations of impotence. We want sympathy and support, not pity. The Windows Refund Day demonstration was a nice one, since we came with a list of demands and a story that showed we were following Microsoft's own EULA. It was very man-bites-dog. What could we do like that in this case? They key here is that the law is unfortunately clear. What we want to prove to the world is that the law is unjust and should be rescinded or repealed or whatever it is that you call it when you kill a bad law. To avoid a whiney picket march, we should do something clever for the press to write about. I haven't got any ideas off the top of my head, but here are a few musings: 1) Write a flimsy content obfuscation system, and then have someone break it. Call the FBI. (make sure the damage claimed exceeds their magic number! Is it still $5,000?) 2) VS LBH PNA ERNQ GUVF, LBH NER VA IVBYNGVBA BS GUR QZPN. Hold a public demonstration illustrating some of the principles that Dimitry mentioned in his talk. Describe the method for decrypting e-books in plain english. 3) Deliver Dimitry's original DEFCON talk outside of Adobe. Can anyone think of any more? -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From ash at toocan.com Wed Jul 18 16:48:02 2001 From: ash at toocan.com (ash) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Bayarea Meeting - Dmitry Sklyarov Message-ID: hi robyn, im rsvp ing the dmitry meeting tonight. -- ashten remwa****************ash@toocan.com |.|.....(_)..|.\..|.|..|.|..|.|..\.\..././ |.|.....|.|..|..\.|.|..|.|..|.|...\.\././ |.|.....|.|..|...\|.|..|.|..|.|..../._.\ |.|___..|.|..|.|\...|..|.|__|.|..././.\.\ |_____).|_| .|_|.\__|..|______|../_/...\_\ http://www.toocan.com/~ash From eliab at pbgnw.com Wed Jul 18 16:51:00 2001 From: eliab at pbgnw.com (Eliab) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> Message-ID: I can already see the slide presentation broadcast ont the side of the building. anybody up for writing and distributing a small "ROT14" program? easy to crack, just shift 14. e > 1) Write a flimsy content obfuscation system, and then have someone > break it. Call the FBI. (make sure the damage claimed > exceeds their magic number! Is it still $5,000?) > 2) VS LBH PNA ERNQ GUVF, LBH NER VA IVBYNGVBA BS GUR QZPN. Hold a > public demonstration illustrating some of the principles that > Dimitry mentioned in his talk. Describe the method for > decrypting e-books in plain english. > 3) Deliver Dimitry's original DEFCON talk outside of Adobe. From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 18 16:50:42 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> Message-ID: <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt writes: NM> What would we demonstrate? NM> After the DeCSS protest outside of the Sony Metreon in NM> San Francisco, I have become soured on the notion of protests. So, don't come. But please stop trying to convince everyone that protests don't work. Try telling the NAACP, Act Up!, the UFW and countless other organizations that street protests don't work. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 18 16:58:14 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87snft23jd.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "LS" == Len Sassaman writes: LS> Has anyone moved forward on the idea to organize a LS> demonstration outside the Adobe building in San Jose? I think this sounds great. Perhaps it could be discussed at the face-to-face meeting tonight? I'm not going to be able to attend, but I'd really love to get a report. I think realistically Monday or Tuesday will be the earliest point at which a rally could be organized. IIRC from Burn All GIFs, Don had to register with Brisbane's finest before the march. So, we probably would have to do that. ~Klepht P.S. Len, do you know of any way to make an announcement to Bay Area cypherpunks? Say, for meetingpunks, that would broadcast the info? -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 16:58:24 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 04:50:42PM -0700 References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010718165824.I7451@zork.net> Begin Klepht quotation: > >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt writes: > NM> What would we demonstrate? > > NM> After the DeCSS protest outside of the Sony Metreon in > NM> San Francisco, I have become soured on the notion of protests. > > So, don't come. But please stop trying to convince everyone that > protests don't work. Try telling the NAACP, Act Up!, the UFW and > countless other organizations that street protests don't work. You removed the constructive portion of my e-mail when replying to it. Why? I am trying to answer the question in that quotation, not bang on the assertion. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 16:59:57 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: ; from eliab@pbgnw.com on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 04:51:00PM -0700 References: <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010718165957.J7451@zork.net> Begin Eliab quotation: > I can already see the slide presentation broadcast ont the side of the > building. Haha. Cute, but would probably require permission. > anybody up for writing and distributing a small "ROT14" program? > easy to crack, just shift 14. Cracking rot14 would be done by rotating by 12. Most Unixes come with a "caesar" program in /usr/games that does this for you. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From jeme at brelin.net Wed Jul 18 17:01:14 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Eliab wrote: > anybody up for writing and distributing a small "ROT14" program? > easy to crack, just shift 14. #!/bin/sh tr abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ opqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMN How's that? J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From dredd at megacity.org Wed Jul 18 17:01:03 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: At 4:50 PM -0700 7/18/01, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt writes: > > NM> What would we demonstrate? > > NM> After the DeCSS protest outside of the Sony Metreon in > NM> San Francisco, I have become soured on the notion of protests. > >So, don't come. But please stop trying to convince everyone that >protests don't work. Try telling the NAACP, Act Up!, the UFW and >countless other organizations that street protests don't work. > Street protests work, where the "masses" can understand easily and relate to the issue involved. I don't have to "Be Gay" to understand gay rights activists. I don't have to be black to understand that "Yeah, we oppressed people in the past, and some people still do it today". DMCA violations are something the people "don't understand", by and large. Around HERE, in our cloistered little high tech environs, there may be a larger-than-normal understanding, but the masses don't understand it all. They DON'T work, as evidenced by WTO protests, if the masses DON'T understand. Was there any huge uproar from the masses after the WTO protests? Did the people rise up and scream "never again!" .. No. They bitched about the traffic problems it caused. D -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From wild at eff.org Wed Jul 18 17:02:43 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF Calling Free Sklyarov Protest In-Reply-To: References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010718164253.02ceece0@pop3.norton.antivirus> The Electronic Frontier Foundation has decided to call for a protest to Free Sklyarov. We are debating internally some of the details, such as specific messages, location, date/time, etc., so that we can have the most effective protest possible. We would like to invite members of the free-sklyarov list to discuss ideas with us about how to make this action a successful collaborative effort. We will participate in this email list and also have set up a way for folks to let EFF know about tips, suggestions, and media coverage related to the case at: help-sklyarov@eff.org Keep up the great discussions! Free Sklyarov, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 04:30 PM 7/18/2001 -0700, Len Sassaman wrote: >Has anyone moved forward on the idea to organize a demonstration outside >the Adobe building in San Jose? > >-- > >Len Sassaman > >Security Architect | >Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." > | >http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From andrea at gravitt.org Wed Jul 18 17:02:52 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boycott Adobe Online Store Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Jul 2001 19:13, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: >We'll teach those Adobe Bastards to take on an army of unemployed dot >commers with too much time on their hands... Well, that was fast! And I called my SO to see if he was up for applying his talents to subvert the force that keeps his business alive, but he didn't have anybody handy who can do bumperstickers -- his screen printer doesn't have the equipment. Too bad. I have this feeling that Copyleft may already be on it, however... Andrea ------------------------------------------------------- feorlen@acm.org From eliab at spack.org Wed Jul 18 17:03:19 2001 From: eliab at spack.org (Eliab) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > #!/bin/sh > tr abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ >opqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMN see that wasn't too hard From rabbi at quickie.net Wed Jul 18 17:03:38 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <87snft23jd.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: On 18 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > P.S. Len, do you know of any way to make an announcement to Bay Area > cypherpunks? Say, for meetingpunks, that would broadcast the info? meetingpunks doesn't have that great a circulation, so I would send it to cypherpunks@ssz.com as well as the meetingpunks list. -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From robin at eff.org Wed Jul 18 17:04:59 2001 From: robin at eff.org (Robin Gross) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] meeting tonight In-Reply-To: References: <20010718150252.K8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010718170333.00a42980@pop3.norton.antivirus> Hello there, Robyn I'll be at the meeting tonight. Thanks for hosting it! Best, Robin At 04:18 PM 7/18/2001 -0600, robyn wrote: >Without access to PACER right now, I manually searched the calendars of >each of the San Jose NDCA judges. Nothing yet. > >http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/calendar.nsf/Calendars?OpenView > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Robin D. Gross - Cyberspace Attorney @ Law Electronic Frontier Foundation 454 Shotwell Street, San Francisco, CA 94110 e: robin@eff.org w: http://www.eff.org p: 415.863.5459 f: 415.436.9993 http://www.eff.org/cafe http://www.eff.org/Intellectual_property/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From proclus at iname.com Wed Jul 18 16:16:23 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (Michael L. Love) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? References: Message-ID: <3B5618C7.6040806@iname.com> Jeme A Brelin wrote: > On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Eliab wrote: > >>anybody up for writing and distributing a small "ROT14" program? >>easy to crack, just shift 14. >> > > #!/bin/sh > tr abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ opqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMN > > > How's that? > J. > Thanks! It's online. http://gnu-darwin.sourceforge.net/derot14.txt Regards, proclus -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From rabbi at quickie.net Wed Jul 18 17:13:22 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Nick Moffitt wrote: > 1) Write a flimsy content obfuscation system, and then have someone > break it. Call the FBI. (make sure the damage claimed > exceeds their magic number! Is it still $5,000?) Something like this has been tried before, right? That pig-Latin Napster thing? It seemed contrived. In this case, I think that the general public would not understand that gesture at all. > 2) VS LBH PNA ERNQ GUVF, LBH NER VA IVBYNGVBA BS GUR QZPN. Hold a Yeah, I'm a criminal. Some of the people on this list can read that by sight, too. > public demonstration illustrating some of the principles that > Dimitry mentioned in his talk. Describe the method for > decrypting e-books in plain english. That's a good suggestion. > 3) Deliver Dimitry's original DEFCON talk outside of Adobe. This would be excellent. -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From bill at scannell.org Wed Jul 18 17:30:32 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think that we should take a page from the protests that brought down communism and stage a 'raid' on Adobe for selling broken software. Lots of people wearing yellow-on-blue DMCA raid jackets accompanied by journalists. Now that's a story. ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From warthawg at ecpi.com Wed Jul 18 17:09:03 2001 From: warthawg at ecpi.com (Joe Barr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF Calling Free Sklyarov Protest In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010718164253.02ceece0@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <5.1.0.14.0.20010718164253.02ceece0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20010718190903.16f06399.warthawg@ecpi.com> The media is watching. On Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:02:43 -0700 Will Doherty wrote: > The Electronic Frontier Foundation has decided to call for a > protest to Free Sklyarov. We are debating internally some > of the details, such as specific messages, location, date/time, > etc., so that we can have the most effective protest possible. > > We would like to invite members of the free-sklyarov list > to discuss ideas with us about how to make this action a > successful collaborative effort. > > We will participate in this email list and also have set > up a way for folks to let EFF know about tips, suggestions, > and media coverage related to the case at: > > help-sklyarov@eff.org > > Keep up the great discussions! > > Free Sklyarov, > > Will Doherty > Online Activist / Media Relations > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > Web http://www.eff.org > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > ------- > > At 04:30 PM 7/18/2001 -0700, Len Sassaman wrote: > >Has anyone moved forward on the idea to organize a demonstration outside > >the Adobe building in San Jose? > > > >-- > > > >Len Sassaman > > > >Security Architect | > >Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." > > | > >http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- #====================================================# # Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! Free Sklyarov! # #====================================================# From bill at scannell.org Wed Jul 18 17:34:03 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketing Adobe? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Another idea would be to have a DMCA chain gang clean the public road spaces around Adobe. We could sing 30's songs with new lyrics...think 'Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?' Great visuals. ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From free-sklyarov at happycool.com Wed Jul 18 17:31:37 2001 From: free-sklyarov at happycool.com (Victor Piterbarg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF Calling Free Sklyarov Protest In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010718164253.02ceece0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: How quickly do things like this usually get organized? I live in Los Angeles, but would love to come out and show support. Could this be on a weekend? Thanks. -Victor -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Will Doherty Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 5:03 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Cc: Len Sassaman; Pablos Kadrevis; wild@eff.org Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF Calling Free Sklyarov Protest The Electronic Frontier Foundation has decided to call for a protest to Free Sklyarov. We are debating internally some of the details, such as specific messages, location, date/time, etc., so that we can have the most effective protest possible. We would like to invite members of the free-sklyarov list to discuss ideas with us about how to make this action a successful collaborative effort. We will participate in this email list and also have set up a way for folks to let EFF know about tips, suggestions, and media coverage related to the case at: help-sklyarov@eff.org Keep up the great discussions! Free Sklyarov, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 04:30 PM 7/18/2001 -0700, Len Sassaman wrote: >Has anyone moved forward on the idea to organize a demonstration outside >the Adobe building in San Jose? > >-- > >Len Sassaman > >Security Architect | >Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." > | >http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From bwilson at gene.COM Wed Jul 18 17:34:59 2001 From: bwilson at gene.COM (Brian Wilson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] meeting tonight In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010718170333.00a42980@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <20010718150252.K8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010718173045.04f9b538@dna-mail1.gene.com> I think a good number of us trying to get ahold of various executives by telephone asking why Kevin Nathanson eBooks Group Products Manager at Adobe thought the FBI should protect their feeble security. The DMCA is not a license to be a shitty programmer. Brian From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 18 17:37:27 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <20010718165824.I7451@zork.net> References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010718165824.I7451@zork.net> Message-ID: <87ofqhpxdk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt writes: NM> You removed the constructive portion of my e-mail when NM> replying to it. Why? NM> I am trying to answer the question in that quotation, not bang NM> on the assertion. Okey doke. I'm going to assume that now that your position is clear, you'll not participate, nor stand in the way of, a demonstration. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 17:41:09 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <87ofqhpxdk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 05:37:27PM -0700 References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010718165824.I7451@zork.net> <87ofqhpxdk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010718174109.N7451@zork.net> Begin Klepht quotation: > Okey doke. I'm going to assume that now that your position is clear, > you'll not participate, nor stand in the way of, a demonstration. I think you're confused. I am in favor of a demonstration. I am against a protest. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From derekfox at yahoo.com Wed Jul 18 18:04:56 2001 From: derekfox at yahoo.com (Derek Fox) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010719010456.59574.qmail@web9304.mail.yahoo.com> Quoth Nick Moffitt: > What would we demonstrate? Adobe is full of liberal-minded programmers who should be on our side. I like the idea of a protest outside the Adobe building because it will alert these good people to what their employer is doing (to a fellow programmer) in their name. It raises the prospect of a little internal rebellion, which would have to be a good thing. Moreover, as far as media interest goes, a protest along these lines would be a novelty, I think... --Derek (Yes I realize it is in the Feds' hands now. Still -- under the guiding principles of boycottadobe.com -- turning up the heat on Adobe can only help.) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 18 18:23:17 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <20010719010456.59574.qmail@web9304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010719010456.59574.qmail@web9304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <878zhlpv96.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "DF" == Derek Fox writes: DF> (Yes I realize it is in the Feds' hands now. Still -- under DF> the guiding principles of boycottadobe.com -- turning up the DF> heat on Adobe can only help.) Would it be possible for them to drop their complaint? If so, would that mean that the Feds would drop the case? If so, I'd say that there'd be some reasonable demands, like: 1) Drop complaint against Sklyarov immediately. 2) Work with community to allow fair use in the E-book format. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From eric at mostly.harmless.org Wed Jul 18 18:29:42 2001 From: eric at mostly.harmless.org (Eric Rachner) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <20010719010456.59574.qmail@web9304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > It raises the prospect of a little internal rebellion, > which would have to be a good thing. Moreover, as far > as media interest goes, a protest along these lines > would be a novelty, I think... With that in mind, be thoughtful when phrasing anti-Adobe sentiments. Be careful to criticize Adobe and its officers without offending those who just work there. Generalizing them all as being shitty programmers and snake-oil salesmen will only alienate those who might be uncomfortable with the DMCA. - Eric From proclus at iname.com Wed Jul 18 17:34:39 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? Message-ID: <200107190034.UAA11589@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> GNU-Darwin is providing free software alternatives to Adobe software in support of the boycott. We have the tools to build an eBook file reader for all computers. We are running a news story about it, where there will be a link to http://www.boycottadobe.com/ in minutes. http://gnu-darwin.sourceforge.net/news.html It would be great if you could give us a reciprocal link ;-} Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From proclus at iname.com Wed Jul 18 17:35:42 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (Michael L. Love) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? Message-ID: <3B562B5E.6020008@iname.com> GNU-Darwin is providing free software alternatives to Adobe software in support of the boycott. We have the tools to build an eBook file reader for all computers. We are running a news story about it, where there will be a link to http://www.boycottadobe.com/ in minutes. http://gnu-darwin.sourceforge.net/news.html It would be great if you could give us a reciprocal link ;-} Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From adric at adric.net Wed Jul 18 19:45:05 2001 From: adric at adric.net (adric) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] anybody working on a flyer? Message-ID: Hi y'all I can't make it to California for the festivities, so I'm trying to raise local awareness by pestering people on the web and by creating a flyer I can distribute to cybercafes and user groups around these parts. I've gotten started on a flyer (handbill?), but I'd appreciate some help, or pointers to flyers already online. my site: http://www.adric.net/flyer/ weblog entry about Dmitry: http://www.livejournal.com/~adric/ TIA and good luck with the demonstration at Adobe! From jono at microshaft.org Wed Jul 18 20:09:42 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [adhoc_it_union] ISSUES to address Message-ID: <20010718200942.C53896@networkcommand.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 03:06:37 -0000 Reply-To: adhoc_it_union@yahoogroups.com Subject: [adhoc_it_union] ISSUES Here is a short list of issues we need to address: Actions ------- 1. Can employers take action against an employee for participating? 2. Do the laws vary from state to state? Advocacy -------- 1. What can we do to increase awareness, act as a united front and increase Press converage and membership? Please send the email announcement to friends and coworkers who might understand this issue. Later, we should have better Advocacy documents that explain the need for this group. 2. Privacy - The member list for this group is available to the moderators only. For the time that's me. However, it is also subject to Yahoo's policies. How much of an issue is this? Goals ----- The short term goal is a single sick day which takes place across the country. We can do this with your participation! Get the word out and DO SOMETHING ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Secure your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE Guide "Securing Your Web Site for Business." Get it now! http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=n094442340008000 http://us.click.yahoo.com/6lIgYB/IWxCAA/yigFAA/26EolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: adhoc_it_union-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----- End forwarded message ----- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010718/b0a1bac7/attachment.pgp From jeme at brelin.net Wed Jul 18 21:03:55 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [adhoc_it_union] ISSUES to address In-Reply-To: <20010718200942.C53896@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Jon O . wrote: > 2. Privacy - The member list for this group is available to the > moderators only. For the time that's me. However, it is also subject > to Yahoo's policies. How much of an issue is this? > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> > Secure your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of > VeriSign's FREE Guide "Securing Your Web Site for Business." Get it now! > http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=n094442340008000 > http://us.click.yahoo.com/6lIgYB/IWxCAA/yigFAA/26EolB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > adhoc_it_union-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ I'd be happy to host this at bitmine.net if'n y'all want. I have a feeling Speakeasy is much more liberal than Yahoo. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From free-sklyarov at happycool.com Wed Jul 18 21:40:13 2001 From: free-sklyarov at happycool.com (Victor Piterbarg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [adhoc_it_union] ISSUES to address In-Reply-To: <20010718200942.C53896@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: How is this related to the Dmitry Sklyarov issue?? -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Jon O . Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 8:10 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] [adhoc_it_union] ISSUES to address Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 03:06:37 -0000 Reply-To: adhoc_it_union@yahoogroups.com Subject: [adhoc_it_union] ISSUES Here is a short list of issues we need to address: Actions ------- 1. Can employers take action against an employee for participating? 2. Do the laws vary from state to state? Advocacy -------- 1. What can we do to increase awareness, act as a united front and increase Press converage and membership? Please send the email announcement to friends and coworkers who might understand this issue. Later, we should have better Advocacy documents that explain the need for this group. 2. Privacy - The member list for this group is available to the moderators only. For the time that's me. However, it is also subject to Yahoo's policies. How much of an issue is this? Goals ----- The short term goal is a single sick day which takes place across the country. We can do this with your participation! Get the word out and DO SOMETHING ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Secure your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE Guide "Securing Your Web Site for Business." Get it now! http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=n094442340008000 http://us.click.yahoo.com/6lIgYB/IWxCAA/yigFAA/26EolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: adhoc_it_union-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----- End forwarded message ----- From jono at microshaft.org Wed Jul 18 22:00:54 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [adhoc_it_union] ISSUES to address In-Reply-To: ; from free-sklyarov@happycool.com on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 09:40:13PM -0700 References: <20010718200942.C53896@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010718220054.E53896@networkcommand.com> The Sklyarov issue should serve to move people to action. The fact that he was arrested for research should scare quite a few security people and consumers because there is a law against what amounts to peer review. The arrest of Sklyarov should be protested. However, the solution is not just to get him released, but to call for review of the law that was used to arrest him in the first place. There is a large group of people who do not understand the Sklyarov issue and think it is analogous to Napster. We know it is not, however we are the few. The few need to educate the many and strong action must be taken. IT Workers currently have no organization representing them as most other large groups of workers do. Even writers for sitcoms have a group which can speak on their behalf. The EFF does a great job speaking to the laws and creating change, however workers as a group need to stand up and show their support of the EFF by more then just sending money (which you should do), but by action. Actions speak louder than words -- even words that make up laws. This is just a small step toward creating a common place to express and account for our concerns. Most IT workers could have/did read the DMCA and know it was a bad idea. However, there was no way for us the express this concern to the general public and government. A group should work on getting Sklyarov out of jail, but another group needs to work on getting rid of the law. For the People, By the People is long gone. Adobe essentially issued an arrest warrant. That should scare everyone. If the DCMA wasn't a law, Sklyarov would be free and authors would know their books were that much more secure. So, I guess a sick day to protest the DMCA has quite a bit to do with the Dmitry Sklyarov issue. We need you: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/adhoc_it_union On 18-Jul-2001, Victor Piterbarg wrote: > How is this related to the Dmitry Sklyarov issue?? > > -----Original Message----- > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Jon O . > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 8:10 PM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: [free-sklyarov] [adhoc_it_union] ISSUES to address > > > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 03:06:37 -0000 > Reply-To: adhoc_it_union@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [adhoc_it_union] ISSUES > > Here is a short list of issues we need to address: > > Actions > ------- > 1. Can employers take action against an employee for participating? > > 2. Do the laws vary from state to state? > > Advocacy > -------- > 1. What can we do to increase awareness, act as a united front > and increase Press converage and membership? > > Please send the email announcement to friends and coworkers who might > understand this issue. Later, we should have better Advocacy documents > that explain the need for this group. > > 2. Privacy - The member list for this group is available to the > moderators only. For the time that's me. However, it is also subject > to Yahoo's policies. How much of an issue is this? > > Goals > ----- > The short term goal is a single sick day which takes place across the > country. We can do this with your participation! > > Get the word out and DO SOMETHING > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> > Secure your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of > VeriSign's FREE Guide "Securing Your Web Site for Business." Get it now! > http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=n094442340008000 > http://us.click.yahoo.com/6lIgYB/IWxCAA/yigFAA/26EolB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > adhoc_it_union-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010718/0af93264/attachment.pgp From rguerra at yahoo.com Wed Jul 18 22:04:43 2001 From: rguerra at yahoo.com (Robert Guerra) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [adhoc_it_union] ISSUES to address In-Reply-To: <20010718220054.E53896@networkcommand.com> References: <20010718200942.C53896@networkcommand.com> <20010718220054.E53896@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: At 10:00 PM -0700 2001/7/18, Jon O . wrote: >A group should work on getting Sklyarov out of jail, but >another group needs to work on getting rid of the law. you might want to get in touch with either CDT or EPIC www.cdt.org www.epic.org as they may be able to be of help as well. regards Robert -- Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. "The Life of Reason," 1906, George Santayana (1863-1952) -- Robert Guerra PGP Keys From vsync at quadium.net Wed Jul 18 22:56:25 2001 From: vsync at quadium.net (vsync) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [free-sklyarov]Adobe Disinvestment Campaign In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87u2094g3a.fsf@feynman.hurstdog.org> Bill Scannell writes: > PS: If you like the attached logo, send a note to dgross@mimetic.com and > tell him how cool it is. Feel free to use the logo as part of any protests > or campaigns you may come up with. I've created a scalable Postscript (heh) version of this logo. The hammer and sickle aren't exactly the same shape as in the .gif version, but it lines up correctly with itself, which i personally found to be more ?sthetically appealing. And it maintains the straight-line 'A' shape. Anyway, feel free to use this for whatever. I'm planning to get some t-shirts made with this logo; any and all profits will be donated to Sklyarov's legal defense. -- vsync http://quadium.net/ (cons (cons (car (cons 'c 'r)) (cdr (cons 'a 'o))) ; Orjner (cons (cons (car (cons 'n 'c)) (cdr (cons nil 's))) nil)) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: boycottadobe.eps Type: application/postscript Size: 877 bytes Desc: boycott adobe! Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010718/e0f04dad/boycottadobe.eps From karl.deabrew at binarything.com Wed Jul 18 23:03:49 2001 From: karl.deabrew at binarything.com (Karl De Abrew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] All things considered... Message-ID: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F52E@mail.roundtable.com.au> Rick Karr's report is now available on the Web at: http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/atc/20010718.atc.13.rmm See http://www.npr.org/ -Karl _________________________________________ Karl De Abrew karl.deabrew@binarything.com http://www.planetpdf.com/ http://www.planetebook.com/ http://www.xmlarena.com/ http://www.binarything.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network From chema at celorio.com Wed Jul 18 01:59:47 2001 From: chema at celorio.com (Chema Celorio) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] how can we help ? Message-ID: <3B555003.C6C28C07@celorio.com> I tried searching the archives but they seem to not be working. I'd like to know if/when/how can I help out, let me know when a defense fund is opened to pitch in. This is non-sense. They just don't get : a) The internet is not owned by anyone, this is not their turf and they have very little control over it. b) security thru obscurity DOES NOT FUCKING work. i wonder when the will learn. Chema From ender at weedfest.com Wed Jul 18 20:04:57 2001 From: ender at weedfest.com (A Very Defiant Duckling Named Ender) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FAQ request f/a non-list memeber Message-ID: I'm looking for a FAQ on issues raised by this action. In particular, the legality of arresting a foriegn national (assumed foreign national: he lives/works and has a Russian name) for legal actions engaged in from his country of origin, while on foreign (US) soil because American laws have a different slant on his actions. From mhamrick at cryptonomicon.net Wed Jul 18 18:10:30 2001 From: mhamrick at cryptonomicon.net (Matthew S. Hamrick) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Cryptonomicon.Net Coverage of the Sklyarov Controversy Message-ID: Cryptonomicon.Net has a couple of pages relating to the current controversy. A collection of links to pages of interest: http://www.cryptonomicon.net/links.php?op=viewslink&sid=55 Some downloads of relevant files: http://www.cryptonomicon.net/download.php?op=viewdownload&cid=4 And a discussion list: http://www.cryptonomicon.net/article.php?sid=38&mode=thread&order=0 -Matt Hamrick From ericgrimm at mediaone.net Wed Jul 18 20:45:59 2001 From: ericgrimm at mediaone.net (Eric C. Grimm) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] For future reference In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01071823455901.11150@linux> I'm very happy to see the EFF getting involved in this effort, as well as Jennifer Granick. Keep up the good work, gang! Sorry I cannot be in the Bay area for any meetings, but call if there's any way I can help. All readers should be aware that EFF is already up to their eyeballs in work protecting everone else's civil liberties -- the Ed Felten case, the 2600 DeCSS appeal in front of the Second Circuit, the challenge to CHIPA (federal internet filtering mandate) and many other cases. So be sure to chip in for this project and other worthy projects. If you've already donated, donate again. If you haven't donate enough, please donate some more. It is alarming that Mr. Sklyarov has already made at least one appearance in court (on July 16, according to the USAO's press release) and that is still unclear whether he is represented by counsel (esp. counsel that knows something about technology and crypto) and if so, who his counsel is. FOR FUTURE REFERENCE TO EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES CODING IS NOT A CRIME: Learn and commit to memory the "magic words" -- two mandatory phrases to be used in an unwanted encounter with law enforcement such as the one reported by Andy Malyshev (Dimitry's colleague from Elcomsoft) in this < http://zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/2001-July/000011.html > archived message: (1) Am I free to leave? (2) I want to speak to a lawyer. The most important single thing is to make sure that Dimitry is properly represented and fully understands that he has no obligation (nor does Malyshev) EVER to say anything to law enforcement. If they are charging Dimitry with a crime, then a prolonged detention without contact with counsel can only be counterproductive. I have every confidence in the folks who have already signed up on the list to make sure Dimitry's defense is on track in short order, however. After reading the slides from Dimitry's presentation, the notion that he is some "hacker" menace to society who needs to be jailed -- as opposed to somebody engaged in serious cryptographic research -- seems mor than a little far-fetched. I'm sure glad it is the Feds who have the burden of proof on this one and not Dimitry because the Feds may have a real uphill struggle on their hands to prove up a case. One last item for everybody posting to this list and engaging in public protest with respect to this arrest / prosecution: The MANNER in which you express yourself will make all the difference between whether your arguments are taken seriously and persuade your audience, or whether they are disrespected and ignored. There's no point in calling Adobe or anyone else bad names or using language about "strike forces." There's a way to say certain orginizations are doing something wrong without coming across to the public like there is something wrong with you. Read the following article from Slashdot: http://slashdot.org/features/01/07/18/1445233.shtml And when you're done, read this onefrom Linuxplanet: http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/opinions/3589/1/ Supporters of Dimitry have a strong case to make and we are on the side of right and justice. There's no need to demonize or belittle the other side. There's no need to do things that will not be taken seriously. Just make our case the most persuasive way you can and do it in a way that shows you are proud of what you are doing. Again, keep up the good work, gang! Eric C. Grimm CyberBrief, PLC 320 South Main Street Ann Arbor, MI 48107-7341 734.332.4900 From bill at scannell.org Thu Jul 19 00:25:09 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsflash! Sklyarov Denied Access To Russian Consul In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I just got off the telephone with Vladimir Katalov. Katalov informs me that the Russian embassy has been denied access to Dmitry Sklyarov, a flagrant violation of international law. No Russian consular official has spoken to Sklyarov since his detention earlier this week. In addition, Sklyarov's wife and two children have not heard from their husband and father since his arrest. They are understandably worried sick for his safety. It is believed Dmitry Sklyarov is being held in solitary confinement. As an American who honorably served in the armed forces, I am ashamed for the actions of my government. This cannot stand. Telephone numbers: US State Department: 1-202-647-6575 Russian Embassy: 1-202-298-5700 Russian Consul (SF) 1-415928-6878 Call. Get your friends to call. Call again. Please disseminate this information as widely as possible. -Bill From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 19 00:26:59 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FAQ request f/a non-list memeber In-Reply-To: ; from ender@weedfest.com on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 10:04:57PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010719002659.A8506@zork.net> Please subscribe if you're going to write to the list and want to see replies! A Very Defiant Duckling Named Ender writes: > I'm looking for a FAQ on issues raised by this action. > > In particular, the legality of arresting a foriegn national > (assumed foreign national: he lives/works and has a Russian name) for > legal actions engaged in from his country of origin, while on foreign > (US) soil because American laws have a different slant on his actions. More of my not being a lawyer: International jurisdiction is a tricky issue. The Complaint alleges that Sklyarov _did_ do something in the U.S.: selling a copy of a program to Adobe (and in general offering to sell the program to people in the U.S.). There are possibly some interesting parallel to international jurisdiction cases involving commercial web sites, e.g. _Yahoo! v. LICRA_. I don't think there is any suggestion here that the DMCA applies extraterritorially, but rather that Sklyarov made contacts with the U.S. by selling software to U.S. residents and _because of this_ is subject to U.S. law. That's the only way I can understand why the complaint goes into so much detail about the physical location of the people at Adobe who are supposed to have bought a copy of AEBPR over the Internet. So the Complaint claims Sklyarov did things in the U.S. even if he wasn't physically present there at the time. (You can verify this by looking at the date of the offense alleged in the Complaint!) This is often enough for domestic jurisdiction (you can have "contacts" with a place which courts say make the exercise of jurisdiction valid, even while you weren't physically present at the time of certain complained-of activities). Aside from this, some laws claim to apply extraterritorially (for example, certain laws against terrorism). A lot of plaintiffs in Internet cases have tried to blur traditional jurisdictional standards by noting that the Internet provides access to material which was created and published elsewhere. Thus, some plaintiffs will argue that jurisdiction is potentially proper _anywhere complained-of content reaches_ or _anywhere from which complained-of content can be purchased_. Someone on one list today mentioned _U.S. v. Thomas_, the old "Amateur Action BBS" case, in which two people in one state were convicted of violating the obscenity laws of a different state _because their BBS could be accessed by people in the foreign state_. Many people are afraid of a proposed new treaty on jurisdiction in civil cases because it would possibly create international jurisdiction standards that worked like this. However, I am oversimplifying the situation. It's interesting to talk to lawyers who are knowledgeable about international jurisdiction. Probably they don't understand it, because nobody understands it, but at least they're likely to have their facts straight. :-) -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 00:38:01 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsflash! Sklyarov Denied Access To Russian Consul In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87y9plnzc6.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "BS" == Bill Scannell writes: BS> I just got off the telephone with Vladimir Katalov. Katalov BS> informs me that the Russian embassy has been denied access to BS> Dmitry Sklyarov, a flagrant violation of international law. BS> No Russian consular official has spoken to Sklyarov since his BS> detention earlier this week. Can this be confirmed with the US Attorney's office? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 19 00:38:56 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: How to donate/EFF statement (was: Re: [free-sklyarov] how can we help ?) In-Reply-To: <3B555003.C6C28C07@celorio.com>; from chema@celorio.com on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 03:59:47AM -0500 References: <3B555003.C6C28C07@celorio.com> Message-ID: <20010719003856.C8506@zork.net> Chema Celorio writes: > I tried searching the archives but they seem to not be working. > I'd like to know if/when/how can I help out, let me know when > a defense fund is opened to pitch in. We had a meeting tonight in San Francisco which included some EFF staff. I thought it was very productive. One point from the meeting: The EFF is attempting to provide assistance to Dmitry Sklyarov and his colleagues, including legal representation. You can support this work and the EFF's other work against the DMCA by making a financial donation to the EFF and indicating that your donation is for the "DMCA fund". http://www.eff.org/support/ Since the meeting, the EFF has also issued its official statement in support of Sklyarov, and pledging to offer him legal support. I include the text of this statement below. (Note that Mr. Sklyarov is not yet represented by the EFF; the EFF is simply stating its intention to help him and to offer him legal representation.) http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010718_eff_sklyarov_statement.html Statement on the Arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov from EFF Executive Director Shari Steele Once again, the Digital Millineum Copyright Act (DMCA) is proving itself to be as harmful to civil liberties as we predicted it would be. The latest victim is a Russian programmer named Dmitry Sklyarov, who authored a program that permits editing, copying, and printing of electronic books by unlocking a proprietary Adobe electronic book format. Mr. Sklyarov has been brought up on criminal charges under the DMCA for distributing a product designed to circumvent copyright protection measures. This is different than the 2600 and Felten cases, which are civil lawsuits. In a civil lawsuit, one private citizen (or company) sues another for money and/or the cessation of a particular action. In a criminal case, the government brings charges against an individual (or company) and the punishment for conviction can be prison and/or fines. EFF has been in contact with the Assistant U.S. Attorney (AUSA)'s office trying to track Mr. Sklyarov's whereabouts and speak with him directly. While the arrest took place in Las Vegas, the complaint was executed in San Jose, meaning that Mr. Sklyarov will be sent to California to stand trial. We have spoken with his colleagues, criminal defense attorneys and others to help with his defense. After he arrives in California, our first order of business is to get Mr. Sklyarov out of jail on a bond pending his trial. EFF has begun to pull together a top-notch legal team to help him defend his right to talk about and distribute the Advanced eBook Processor software program, and we'll be ready to step in as soon as it is appropriate. EFF knew when we took on the 2600 Case over a year ago that fixing the DMCA would require several legal challenges. EFF remains committed to chipping away at this law until it no longer poses a threat to our right to free speech. Lest anyone be confused, this case is not about copyright infringement. Mr. Sklyarov is not accused of infringing anyone's copyrights. He is accused of building the Advanced eBook Processor, a tool that allows the legitimate purchaser of an e-book to translate it from one digital format into another (from Adobe's eBook format into Adobe's Portable Document Format). Mr. Sklyarov is not being prosecuted for using the tool himself -- in fact, such a prosecution would be impossible, since using such a tool (as distinguished from building or distributing one) breaks no law. Mr. Sklyarov has entered the strange Twilight Zone of the DMCA, where using a tool is legal, but building it is a crime. We invite your support. If you are not yet an EFF member, please join with us at http://www.eff.org/support. If you already are a member and wish to make a donation, you can use that same link to get to our donation page. Together we will keep the pressure on anyone who chooses to degrade our basic rights. Thanks for your help. Shari Steele, EFF Executive Director July 18, 2001 -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From pablos at kadrevis.com Thu Jul 19 00:33:05 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another US$.02 Message-ID: <862938.995502784@[0.0.0.0]> To the managemnt of Adobe, It saddens me to see the poor choice Adobe has made with its complaint against Dmitry Sklyarov. I have always appreciated the fantastic software created by Adobe. I used three of your applications in creating the Boycott Adobe web site at . Dmitry is a 26 year old father of two children from Moscow. Imagine being detained indefinitely by the KGB in Russia where you have no friends or family. This is exactly what is going on with Dmitry due to Adobe's actions. For the last three days he has been denied communication with friends, family, even the Russian Consul. Please understand that the DMCA is unconstitutional and will continue to be fought earnestly by those who understand, and care about the future of our rights online. We've been waiting for a case just like this one to fight the DMCA in court. It promises to be a long run of bad press for Adobe. Over the last few months, I've seen institutional investors looking for any excuse to pull out of high tech companies. So I'm particularly saddened that the impending backlash against Adobe will be very difficult for you. I understand the trickle down effect this will have on product development. Please rescind Adobe's complaint against Dmitry Sklyarov before this becomes a bigger problem for all of us. As much as I want to see the DMCA suffer, Dmitry is the wrong victim to use in fixing American laws. I'm off to make Boycott Adobe T-Shirts, please buy one from our web site, all proceeds go to help Dmitry's defense. Thanks, Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 From bill at scannell.org Thu Jul 19 00:41:20 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsflash! Sklyarov Denied Access To Russian Consul In-Reply-To: <87y9plnzc6.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: on 19.7.01 02:38, Klepht at klepht@eleutheria.org wrote: >>>>>> "BS" == Bill Scannell writes: > > BS> I just got off the telephone with Vladimir Katalov. Katalov > BS> informs me that the Russian embassy has been denied access to > BS> Dmitry Sklyarov, a flagrant violation of international law. > BS> No Russian consular official has spoken to Sklyarov since his > BS> detention earlier this week. > > Can this be confirmed with the US Attorney's office? > > ~Klepht Add that to the list of numbers to call. ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From pablos at kadrevis.com Thu Jul 19 00:51:18 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] how can we help ? In-Reply-To: <3B555003.C6C28C07@celorio.com> References: <3B555003.C6C28C07@celorio.com> Message-ID: <928519.995503877@[0.0.0.0]> --On Wednesday, July 18, 2001 3:59 AM -0500 Chema Celorio wrote: > I tried searching the archives but they seem to not be working. > I'd like to know if/when/how can I help out, let me know when > a defense fund is opened to pitch in. The BoycottAdobe crew is collecting donations via PayPal which will go directly to Dmitry, as we're in touch with his colleagues. You can send PayPal to but donations to the EFF are also encouraged. pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From tabindak at best.com Thu Jul 19 01:03:59 2001 From: tabindak at best.com (Tabinda N. Khan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] anybody working on a flyer? In-Reply-To: ; from adric@adric.net on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 10:45:05PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010719010359.B20153@shell9.ba.best.com> Quoting adric: > I can't make it to California for the festivities, so I'm trying > to raise local awareness by pestering people on the web and by creating > a flyer I can distribute to cybercafes and user groups around these parts. > > I've gotten started on a flyer (handbill?), but I'd appreciate some > help, or pointers to flyers already online. At the San Francisco meeting tonight I was charged with taking content from the Web materials being posted tomorrow and making a flyer for the protest. I like your flyer too. My goal is to make the Web site the flyer and hand out something which will cause people to look at the site since it will be more up-to-date than paper. I can post a copy when mine is done. Tabinda -- From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 19 01:11:18 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsflash! Sklyarov Denied Access To Russian Consul In-Reply-To: ; from bill@scannell.org on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 02:41:20AM -0500 References: <87y9plnzc6.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010719011118.F8506@zork.net> Bill Scannell writes: > on 19.7.01 02:38, Klepht at klepht@eleutheria.org wrote: > > >>>>>> "BS" == Bill Scannell writes: > > > > BS> I just got off the telephone with Vladimir Katalov. Katalov > > BS> informs me that the Russian embassy has been denied access to > > BS> Dmitry Sklyarov, a flagrant violation of international law. > > BS> No Russian consular official has spoken to Sklyarov since his > > BS> detention earlier this week. > > > > Can this be confirmed with the US Attorney's office? > > > > ~Klepht > > Add that to the list of numbers to call. Once particular things are confirmed, however, people should stop calling the offices that confirmed them. We don't need to have 7 people asking the U.S. Attorney the same question, or asking the Consulate. Apparently the EFF should be getting some detailed updated information tomorrow, because some EFF staff members have gotten in touch with Sklyarov's colleagues at ElcomSoft. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From pablos at kadrevis.com Thu Jul 19 01:23:45 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsflash! Sklyarov Denied Access To Russian Consul In-Reply-To: <20010719011118.F8506@zork.net> References: <87y9plnzc6.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.u s> <20010719011118.F8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <1045334.995505824@[0.0.0.0]> --On Thursday, July 19, 2001 1:11 AM -0700 Seth David Schoen wrote: > Apparently the EFF should be getting some detailed updated information > tomorrow, because some EFF staff members have gotten in touch with > Sklyarov's colleagues at ElcomSoft. I think some people may have the wrong idea about Dmitry's colleagues. These men currently do not have any better information than we do. They have even less of an idea about what to do/who to talk to/how to get help than we do. The Russian Consul, while having filed inquiries, also knows nothing thus far. Dmitry's colleagues, also have difficulty with English. They need help from us. Having talked to Alexander (Elcomsoft Executive in San Francisco) only an hour ago: 1 Nobody has talked to Dmitry since his arrest. 2 Nobody knows where he is being held. 3 Nobody knows where he'll turn up next. Where "Nobody" is any of us and/or Dmitry's colleagues, not the feds. pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From mgenin at computerra.ru Thu Jul 19 02:31:19 2001 From: mgenin at computerra.ru (Mike Genin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re:FAQ request Message-ID: <1484040539.20010719133119@computerra.ru> Hello David, here are my thoughts about Sklyarov situation. But first - I'm a Russian lawyer, my speciality is International Private LAw and area of interests include cyberlaw, intellectual property etc (now I'm in doctorate). I work on Computerra Publishing House www.computerra.ru. We have close relations to Elcomsoft, and I myself gave some counseling to both Alex and Vladimir Katalov several times, including this case (before arrest, when all this was just starting). So. USA domestic law, like legislation of any other country is limited to borders of this country. And often there is a situation, when some action is legal in one country and illegal in other at the same time. For example - in Russia is forbidden to have more then one wife. And we will not arrest any Arabian sheikh for having his harem. In Russia programs of Elcomsoft are _legal_, and moreover actions of Adobe eBook reader is illegal, because by our copyright law any user must have right to do backup copies of files. But FBI accused Dmytry that he take with him in the USA program that is illegal there. This is art. 17 of criminal Code part 1201 (b) (1) (A) DCMA. So that's the case. -- Best regards, Mike Genin Computerra Publishing www.ibusinnes.ru - www.computerra.ru mailto:mgenin@computerra.ru From andrea at gravitt.org Thu Jul 19 02:40:09 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] stickers! Somebody please make some Message-ID: I would really like to have stickers I can pass around and put on things and people to build awareness of the issue. Not bumper stickers (for me, anyway) but real live sheets of Avery's Finest. Maybe one of you unemployed pixel-pushers can come up with something. I want to see a design that gets the attention of people who don't give a rat's ass about some Russian and have never heard of the DMCA and convinces them they should. Andrea ------------------------------------------------------- feorlen at acm dot org From proclus at iname.com Thu Jul 19 04:05:57 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus realm) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitri's family References: Message-ID: <3B56BF15.94973070@iname.com> I just read in the Times that Dmitri is a grad student with a family and two small children in Moscow. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/18/technology/18CRYP.html Do we have any news from them, and can we make sure that they are being cared for? A father wants to know. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Thu Jul 19 04:14:19 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AtH is here Message-ID: <003a01c11043$f89da9e0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, All! I am here and ready for actions. My proposal is to make in Moscow: (1) press-conference at Saturday, 17:00 /* can give my flat */ (2) demonstration at Monday, the same time (UTC, local?) as in San Jose near US Embassy or Ambassador's residence. Is anyone here from Moscow, who already made demonstrations? As in June, 1999 we need 3 person, that sign a paper to Moscow mayor. This must be done *TODAY*, because authority can say "that place is already reserved for other action" and return paper back, as they really did during FKD/Moscow. :( We need time to re-apply with new place. Also we need a place, where copy flyers. Is this the first case, when FBI arrest people directly after DEF CON? - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From larsg at eurorights.org Thu Jul 19 04:16:36 2001 From: larsg at eurorights.org (Lars Gaarden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re:FAQ request References: <1484040539.20010719133119@computerra.ru> Message-ID: <3B56C194.7040306@eurorights.org> Mike Genin wrote: > In Russia programs of Elcomsoft are _legal_, and moreover actions of > Adobe eBook reader is illegal, because by our copyright law any user > must have right to do backup copies of files. Is an official english translation of the relevant parts of the russian copyright law available? In Norway, the owner of a copy of a software program has the right to make backups if required. This right can not be signed away by contract. However, this does not _require_ the maker of the software program to provide means for producing this backup. i.e., backup is explicitly legal, but the software producer is under no obligation to make it easy to perform the act. So, Elcomsoft programs should be legal in Norway but it is uncertain weither the Adobe eBook reader is illegal. The relevant law in .no is 39h, para2 of the copyright law. See links below for official norwegian version and english translation. http://www.lovdata.no/all/tl-19610512-002-029.html http://www.unesco.org/culture/copy/copyright/norway/page2.html#s39g This will probably change once Norway and the rest of EU implement the new EU copyright directive. While not quite as bad as the DMCA, it will severely restrict the public's right to make use of digital copyrighted works. See http://eurorights.org for more. Also, this only covers software. An eBook can be argued to be either a normal copyrighted work, software, or both. -- "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead. From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Thu Jul 19 04:37:36 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsflash! Sklyarov Denied Access To Russian Consul Message-ID: <3B56C680.2123E3C8@sheffield.ac.uk> Yes Pablos, it is true. We (russians) do need help from you all. Being russian for 26 years I do not hope that Russian authorities will do anything serious to help us. Have you got any links to Amnesty International USA? Denial of access to russian counsil is a very worrying fact. AI should be informed of it asap. Any other ideas? anton --------------------------------------- Anton Chterenlikht Research Assistant Mechanical Engineering Department Sheffield University Mappin Street Sheffield S1 3JD UK Tel: (+) 114 2227863 Fax: (+) 114 2226015 Email: a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk --------------------------------------- I think some people may have the wrong idea about Dmitry's colleagues. These men currently do not have any better information than we do. They have even less of an idea about what to do/who to talk to/how to get help than we do. The Russian Consul, while having filed inquiries, also knows nothing thus far. Dmitry's colleagues, also have difficulty with English. They need help from us. Having talked to Alexander (Elcomsoft Executive in San Francisco) only an hour ago: 1 Nobody has talked to Dmitry since his arrest. 2 Nobody knows where he is being held. 3 Nobody knows where he'll turn up next. Where "Nobody" is any of us and/or Dmitry's colleagues, not the feds. pablos. From spector at zeitgeist.com Thu Jul 19 05:48:22 2001 From: spector at zeitgeist.com (David HM Spector) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Divestment? I think not... Message-ID: <200107191248.f6JCmMW02643@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> Before anyone flames me... read on: The best way to hurt Adobe for their asinine and short-sighted attacks on the software community is make their PR life so painful they have no choice but to back down and even apologize. DO NOT to divest yourself of Adobe stock, but rather hold your stock, and if you don't own any, call (or click over to) your broker and buy 1 (one) share of Adobe stock. We as a community of shareholders can file class-action suits against the company. The power of a few hundred thousand software developers cannot be trifled with --- especially if we keep this event in the news. Next, what we need are a few lawyers (is the EFF listening) who will work with all these newly minted Adobe shareholder to (legally -- no stupid pet trick, please) hound Adobe's management. Divenstments don't work -- big companies don't care if you divest because the majority of people will NOT divest. They DO care about bad press and angry, volcal politically active share-holders. Oh, and of course, you should call you congress-folk can tell them to get on teh DoJ/FBI's case about this issue. Congress people a re especially afraid of vocal constituents. .... thoughts? Feedback? David -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David HM Spector Network Design & Infrastructure Security spector@zeitgeist.com -or- spector@spector.com Amateur Radio: W2DHM (ARRL life member) -.-. --- -. -. . -.-. - .-- .. - .... .- -- .- - . ..- .-. .-. .- -.. .. --- Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves. -George Gordon Noel Byron [a.k.a Lord Byron](1788-1824) From warthawg at ecpi.com Thu Jul 19 06:03:21 2001 From: warthawg at ecpi.com (Joe Barr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Divestment? I think not... In-Reply-To: <200107191248.f6JCmMW02643@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> References: <200107191248.f6JCmMW02643@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> Message-ID: <20010719080321.46954fcc.warthawg@ecpi.com> It seems to me that we are chasing the wrong monster. Adobe is a symptom, the DMCA is the problem. We should focus more on ways to get it repealed, rather than work solely to spotlight Adobe's stupidity and greed. Those two traits are always going to be a part of the human condition, but the DMCA doesn't have to be. See ya, Joe Barr On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:48:22 -0400 David HM Spector wrote: > > Before anyone flames me... read on: > > The best way to hurt Adobe for their asinine and short-sighted attacks > on the software community is make their PR life so painful they have > no choice but to back down and even apologize. > > DO NOT to divest yourself of Adobe stock, but rather hold your stock, > and if you don't own any, call (or click over to) your broker and buy > 1 (one) share of Adobe stock. > > We as a community of shareholders can file class-action suits against > the company. The power of a few hundred thousand software developers > cannot be trifled with --- especially if we keep this event in the > news. > > Next, what we need are a few lawyers (is the EFF listening) who will > work with all these newly minted Adobe shareholder to (legally -- no > stupid pet trick, please) hound Adobe's management. > > Divenstments don't work -- big companies don't care if you divest > because the majority of people will NOT divest. They DO care about > bad press and angry, volcal politically active share-holders. > > > Oh, and of course, you should call you congress-folk can tell them to > get on teh DoJ/FBI's case about this issue. Congress people a re > especially afraid of vocal constituents. > > .... thoughts? Feedback? > > David > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > David HM Spector Network Design & Infrastructure Security > spector@zeitgeist.com -or- spector@spector.com > > Amateur Radio: W2DHM (ARRL life member) > -.-. --- -. -. . -.-. - .-- .. - .... .- -- .- - . ..- .-. .-. .- -.. .. --- > Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who > dare not, are slaves. -George Gordon Noel Byron [a.k.a Lord Byron](1788-1824) > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- #====================================================# # Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! Free Sklyarov! # #====================================================# From spector at zeitgeist.com Thu Jul 19 06:07:31 2001 From: spector at zeitgeist.com (David HM Spector) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Divestment? I think not... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:03:21 CDT." <20010719080321.46954fcc.warthawg@ecpi.com> Message-ID: <200107191307.f6JD7VH02700@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> Agreed... but we have to start somewhere and making it clear to Adobe and other companies that the community will NOT tolerate their bad behaviour is the first step in fighting the DCMA. We won't get the DCMA repealed if Adobe and other bad actors are still standing behind it. The best way to get them to BACK the repeal of this silliness is to make sure they know there's a large political penalty in continuing to support it. _DHMS From proclus at iname.com Thu Jul 19 06:13:51 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus realm) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Divestment? I think not... References: <200107191248.f6JCmMW02643@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> <20010719080321.46954fcc.warthawg@ecpi.com> Message-ID: <3B56DD0F.58BEC991@iname.com> Joe Barr wrote: > > It seems to me that we are chasing the wrong monster. Adobe is a symptom, > the DMCA is the problem. We should focus more on ways to get it repealed, > rather than work solely to spotlight Adobe's stupidity and greed. Those > two traits are always going to be a part of the human condition, but the > DMCA doesn't have to be. Wrong, we should make an example of Adobe for this particularly abusive behavior so that no company will ever dare to do it again. There are plenty of bad laws on the books. Some of them don't make sense, and they are not enforced. We will simply create situation where companies will find it unbearable to try and enforce this dumb law. If Adobe goes down for this, then so be it. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > > See ya, > Joe Barr > > On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:48:22 -0400 > David HM Spector wrote: > > > > > Before anyone flames me... read on: > > > > The best way to hurt Adobe for their asinine and short-sighted attacks > > on the software community is make their PR life so painful they have > > no choice but to back down and even apologize. > > > > DO NOT to divest yourself of Adobe stock, but rather hold your stock, > > and if you don't own any, call (or click over to) your broker and buy > > 1 (one) share of Adobe stock. > > > > We as a community of shareholders can file class-action suits against > > the company. The power of a few hundred thousand software developers > > cannot be trifled with --- especially if we keep this event in the > > news. > > > > Next, what we need are a few lawyers (is the EFF listening) who will > > work with all these newly minted Adobe shareholder to (legally -- no > > stupid pet trick, please) hound Adobe's management. > > > > Divenstments don't work -- big companies don't care if you divest > > because the majority of people will NOT divest. They DO care about > > bad press and angry, volcal politically active share-holders. > > > > > > Oh, and of course, you should call you congress-folk can tell them to > > get on teh DoJ/FBI's case about this issue. Congress people a re > > especially afraid of vocal constituents. > > > > .... thoughts? Feedback? > > > > David > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > David HM Spector Network Design & Infrastructure Security > > spector@zeitgeist.com -or- spector@spector.com > > > > Amateur Radio: W2DHM (ARRL life member) > > -.-. --- -. -. . -.-. - .-- .. - .... .- -- .- - . ..- .-. .-. .- -.. .. --- > > Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who > > dare not, are slaves. -George Gordon Noel Byron [a.k.a Lord Byron](1788-1824) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > -- > #====================================================# > # Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! Free Sklyarov! # > #====================================================# > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From esper at sherohman.org Thu Jul 19 06:19:47 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] how can we help ? In-Reply-To: <3B555003.C6C28C07@celorio.com>; from chema@celorio.com on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 03:59:47AM -0500 References: <3B555003.C6C28C07@celorio.com> Message-ID: <20010719081947.A19001@sherohman.org> On Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 03:59:47AM -0500, Chema Celorio wrote: > I tried searching the archives but they seem to not be working. The archives look OK now, but I'm afraid Mailman doesn't provide a search function. > This is non-sense. They just don't get : > a) The internet is not owned by anyone, this is not their turf > and they have very little control over it. > b) security thru obscurity DOES NOT FUCKING work. While I agree with you, I'm not quite clear on point A. What does Dmitry's case have to do with the internet? This is about document formats and access to encrypted local data, AFAICT. From karl.deabrew at binarything.com Thu Jul 19 06:49:19 2001 From: karl.deabrew at binarything.com (Karl De Abrew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest Message-ID: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F55F@mail.roundtable.com.au> The next Wired article is out -- definitely worth reading. Some excepts below... -Karl Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest By Declan McCullagh 2:00 a.m. July 19, 2001 PDT http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45342,00.html "WASHINGTON -- When the FBI arrested a Russian programmer this week on charges of criminal copyright violations, the government unwittingly ignited a powder keg of outrage" ... "This high-visibility prosecution under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act seems to have focused the kind of anger not seen since the days of the 1996 Communications Decency Act or the Secret Service raid of Steve Jackson Games -- two defining moments in the development of civil liberties online." ... "In San Francisco on Wednesday evening, campaigners met at the home of one outraged activist to plan strategy. Some cypherpunks have created BoycottAdobe.com, which blames Adobe for "abusing U.S. copyright law to protect their cash-flow," and others are hunting for San Francisco-area natives who can vouch for Sklyarov's character -- so he can be released on bail. The danger for Adobe is that rather than dissipating, online anger could instead focus on how the company likely lobbied the U.S. government to take up its cause with regard to the ElcomSoft utility." From sonjat at cs.unm.edu Thu Jul 19 07:02:32 2001 From: sonjat at cs.unm.edu (Sonja V. Tideman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F55F@mail.roundtable.com.au> Message-ID: Hello, I live near the Denver area and was wondering what I could do to help. This arrest absolutely infuriates, and makes me ashamed to be American. I have never had to say that before, but now it is true. I know Denver does not have the IT population of the Bay Area, but there are a lot of IT workers here and I was thinking that perhaps we could have a protest outside one of the federal buildings here as well. I would like to do something. Thanks Sonja From esper at sherohman.org Thu Jul 19 07:24:05 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 04:44:09PM -0700 References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010719092405.E19001@sherohman.org> On Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 04:44:09PM -0700, Nick Moffitt wrote: > To avoid a whiney picket march, we should do something clever > for the press to write about. I haven't got any ideas off the top of > my head, but here are a few musings: You're right - the press is a lot more interested in the odd or the sensational rather than Yet Another Protest. Cue protest story from my old college roommate: Back in the late 80s, protesting against the war in El Salvador was the thing to do. Tom didn't have any problems with it and he just liked to mess with the sorts of people who were protesting, so he got a couple of his friends together and set up a protest against lime Jell-O(TM) across the street from a major El Salvador protest. A couple hundred people holding a serious protest in support of a popular cause on one side of the street. A half-dozen wackos claiming that their mothers had been killed by lime-flavored gelatin on the other. Guess who got all the press coverage? The ones that seemed more "interesting". Plain old protests can work, but, these days, they're plain and they're old. Something creative (no, sorry - I don't have any suggestions) can be a lot more effective with a lot fewer people involved. From cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu Thu Jul 19 07:24:51 2001 From: cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boston area activism. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'd like to volunteer to organize "help-sklyarov" activities in the Boston area. As someone who has previously been unjustly arrested (for making political puppets in Philadelphia; later acquitted), I deeply empathize with Sklyarov's plight. If you're in the Boston area, or have ideas for Boston-area activities, please write me. --scott assassination Diplomat Echelon AK-47 Suharto early warning D5 SLBM plastique Moscow NSA explosion shotgun Richard Tomlinson BATF DES ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian ) -- "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970, minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4. -- [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/] #!/usr/bin/perl -w # 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz # MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout # arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order $_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5; $_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d= unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d >>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9 ,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t ^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271)) [$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval From jay at cs.uoregon.edu Thu Jul 19 07:26:23 2001 From: jay at cs.uoregon.edu (Jay Schneider) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought for a slogan Message-ID: <001b01c1105e$ca1c3120$7f603c04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> Hi All, I've been trying to come up with a soundbite/catch phrase that describes the problem. Can I suggest: "Writing Code is not a Crime!" or more simply "Code is not a Crime" It seems to sing and IMHO describes the root of the problem. Well, at least one of the roots of one of the problems. Hopefully, it'll make people think and provide a favorable starting point for describing the problem to both the masses and tech workers. If you like it use it! Jay Schneider From esper at sherohman.org Thu Jul 19 07:32:42 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: ; from jeme@brelin.net on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 05:01:14PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010719093241.F19001@sherohman.org> On Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 05:01:14PM -0700, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Eliab wrote: > #!/bin/sh > tr abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ opqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMN *sigh* Kids these days... Always doing things the hard way... #!/bin/sh tr a-zA-Z o-za-nO-ZA-N You will, of course, have to figure out the decoding command for yourself. From spector at zeitgeist.com Thu Jul 19 07:36:37 2001 From: spector at zeitgeist.com (David HM Spector) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:02:32 MDT." Message-ID: <200107191436.f6JEabH03046@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> Buy 1 share of Adobe stock, then call the shareholder information line and tell them you protest adobe's actions. After that, join in with the rest of us in a shareholder class-action suit against the CEO, Chairman and the board of directors. _DHMS From andrea at gravitt.org Thu Jul 19 07:48:40 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought for a slogan Message-ID: <004201c11061$e8a14600$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> EFF has been using "Coding is not a crime" on their bumperstickers, which I like. One of these days I will actually put it on my vehicle, although the impact is severely limited by the fact that I more often take the bus. (Hence, interest in small stickers.) I'm thinking of something that connects Free Speech (a bedrock of Constitutional Law but sadly, as a Comic Book Legal Defense Fund t-shirt put it, "Void where Prohibited") with the ability to engage in research without corporate-backed government interference. Basically, it is not a stretch to see how enforcing the DMCA in this way prohibits objective evaluation of digital products and services and hurts end users. Before DMCA, individuals and companies have used bad laws or specious "crimes" to harass anybody they didn't like. This is now just another tool that is available for their use. (The organization mentioned above was the result of action after a drastic governmental crackdown on an individual for going about his daily business. An artist was convicted of producing obscene comic strips and ordered to not draw.) Andrea From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Thu Jul 19 07:47:54 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest References: <200107191436.f6JEabH03046@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> Message-ID: <00a001c11061$cf2ba260$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, David HM Spector! > Buy 1 share of Adobe stock, then call the shareholder information line and Do you know, what you advise? Give Adobe money ($xx per each action participant), that will fund neutralization of our action! Better ask people, that have Adobe stocks, to share with friends. Good Luck! Arvi the Hacker (AtH//UgF@hMoscow) From bill at scannell.org Thu Jul 19 07:51:44 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Stickers/Slogan In-Reply-To: <20010719092405.E19001@sherohman.org> Message-ID: Bumper stickers are fine, but what we really need are true mime-producing implements. A small (2"x2") sticker reading "Commit an Adobe ThoughtCrime" with the logo and URL would be small enough to keep in the pocket or purse for deployment on public places such as bathroom walls, light poles, bar tables, laptops and dot.com lobbies. We'd need a lot of them. Anyone interested in pricing out what such a 2 color sticker would cost to produce? -Bill ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From rabbi at quickie.net Thu Jul 19 07:53:06 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Divestment? I think not... In-Reply-To: <20010719080321.46954fcc.warthawg@ecpi.com> Message-ID: You are right, but the first order of business is getting Dmitry freed. If we apply pressure to Adobe and get them to drop the charges, his release is almost certain. On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Joe Barr wrote: > > > It seems to me that we are chasing the wrong monster. Adobe is a symptom, > the DMCA is the problem. We should focus more on ways to get it repealed, > rather than work solely to spotlight Adobe's stupidity and greed. Those > two traits are always going to be a part of the human condition, but the > DMCA doesn't have to be. > > See ya, > Joe Barr > > > > On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:48:22 -0400 > David HM Spector wrote: > > > > > Before anyone flames me... read on: > > > > The best way to hurt Adobe for their asinine and short-sighted attacks > > on the software community is make their PR life so painful they have > > no choice but to back down and even apologize. > > > > DO NOT to divest yourself of Adobe stock, but rather hold your stock, > > and if you don't own any, call (or click over to) your broker and buy > > 1 (one) share of Adobe stock. > > > > We as a community of shareholders can file class-action suits against > > the company. The power of a few hundred thousand software developers > > cannot be trifled with --- especially if we keep this event in the > > news. > > > > Next, what we need are a few lawyers (is the EFF listening) who will > > work with all these newly minted Adobe shareholder to (legally -- no > > stupid pet trick, please) hound Adobe's management. > > > > Divenstments don't work -- big companies don't care if you divest > > because the majority of people will NOT divest. They DO care about > > bad press and angry, volcal politically active share-holders. > > > > > > Oh, and of course, you should call you congress-folk can tell them to > > get on teh DoJ/FBI's case about this issue. Congress people a re > > especially afraid of vocal constituents. > > > > .... thoughts? Feedback? > > > > David > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > David HM Spector Network Design & Infrastructure Security > > spector@zeitgeist.com -or- spector@spector.com > > > > Amateur Radio: W2DHM (ARRL life member) > > -.-. --- -. -. . -.-. - .-- .. - .... .- -- .- - . ..- .-. .-. .- -.. .. --- > > Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who > > dare not, are slaves. -George Gordon Noel Byron [a.k.a Lord Byron](1788-1824) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > -- > #====================================================# > # Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! Free Sklyarov! # > #====================================================# > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From dredd at megacity.org Thu Jul 19 08:01:10 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: <00a001c11061$cf2ba260$0100a8c0@sharhan> References: <200107191436.f6JEabH03046@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> <00a001c11061$cf2ba260$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: At 6:47 PM +0400 7/19/01, Ilya V. Vasilyev wrote: >Hi, David HM Spector! > >> Buy 1 share of Adobe stock, then call the shareholder information line and > >Do you know, what you advise? > >Give Adobe money ($xx per each action participant), that >will fund neutralization of our action! Better ask people, >that have Adobe stocks, to share with friends. For the benefit of the Russians among us who may not understand the US stock market so well. :) Buying a share of stock doesn't put any money in Adobe's pocket. Adobe sold its shares years ago, in its initial-public-offering (IPO). They said "We're selling 70% of company, broken up into 30,000,000 pieces, give us $20 each" (or whatever). Now, those shares are strewn in private hands around the world, who've sold what they bought to others, who have in turn sold them, etc. In other words, you put money in the hands of the private-citizen who happens to decide to sell Adobe at the same time you decide to buy Adobe stock. The only way they would "realize profit" is if there were so many people buying single-share purchases that there was actually an "inordinate demand" created for the stock, driving the price up, making the value of their internal holdings (the other 30% of the company in the random-figures-example above) increase. But that's not very likely, on the scale we're talking. d -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From spector at zeitgeist.com Thu Jul 19 08:00:39 2001 From: spector at zeitgeist.com (David HM Spector) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Jul 2001 18:47:54 +0400." <00a001c11061$cf2ba260$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: <200107191500.f6JF0dc03123@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> Actually,it really doesn't give any money to Adobe directly; it gives money to someone who is SELLING Adobe stock, and commissions to the brokers on both sides of the deal. If the stock goes up they have a higher market capitalization. But, the trivialities asiide if 500,000 programmers each bought 1 share, 500,000 share of adobe stock doesn't even make a tiny little dent in Adobe's daily share volume. Of course it would be nice to get current shareholder would give away their stock for this cause, but its not realistic. The bang we get for the buck in being able to launch class action suits more than makes up for it. _DHMS From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Thu Jul 19 08:04:41 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe MUST LOOSE! References: <200107191436.f6JEabH03046@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> <00a001c11061$cf2ba260$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: <00b101c11064$2691fc00$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, All! Adobe must loose! This is what we must remember. To loose money, to loose customers. Stock prices must go down. Those, who can do this legally, must do this in legal way. If number of customers will *increase*, Adobe will win this battle in figures. Then managers will make papers to their bosses "Look, Dmitry Sklyarov scandal added 1,000 of customers" and get more salary this month. Its not uncommon, that scandal can promote corporation, instead of punishing it. Thats why I suggest not to give a single cent to corporation. If you have stocks, sell them or give to 2600 or EFF -- they can be trusted to use stocks against Adobe the most proper way. If you have their products, call their hotline and try to return back your money. Motivate this, you wanted really secure product, and don't want your money to work for hiding Adobe security faults by putting security specialists into jail. Don't buy Adobe products, don't buy Adobe stocks. Return them back -- let Adobe lost money, lost GREAT money. Then kick down Adobe with public actions and black PR! Adobe must loose! Both in customers and money -- if no customers, no money, there will be no Adobe. Good Luck! Arvi the Hacker (AtH//UgF@hMoscow) From sonjat at cs.unm.edu Thu Jul 19 08:11:49 2001 From: sonjat at cs.unm.edu (Sonja V. Tideman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: <200107191436.f6JEabH03046@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> Message-ID: Hello, Would I actually qualify as a defendent in the lawsuit since my shares were bought after Adobe committed the action that spawned the lawsuit? (I have no idea about this) Also, I would like to make this as public as possible. I think the way to do that is having as many people as possible giving demonstrations in as many places as possible. I would be happy to coordinate a demonstration for the Denver area if there is enough interest Sonja On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, David HM Spector wrote: > > > Buy 1 share of Adobe stock, then call the shareholder information line and > tell them you protest adobe's actions. After that, join in with the rest of > us in a shareholder class-action suit against the CEO, Chairman and the board > of directors. > > _DHMS > > > From spector at zeitgeist.com Thu Jul 19 08:24:59 2001 From: spector at zeitgeist.com (David HM Spector) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Divestment? I think not... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Jul 2001 07:53:06 PDT." Message-ID: <200107191524.f6JFOxR03207@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> >You are right, but the first order of business is getting Dmitry freed. If >we apply pressure to Adobe and get them to drop the charges, his release >is almost certain. That is indeed a VERY good goal... HOWEVER, its out of the hands of "the rest of us" and firmly in the hands of his family, his lawyers and the EFF. In fact, too much noise on the part of well-intentioned activists will most likely harden the resolve of the DoJ/FBI and the judge in the case and guarantee that he remains incarcerated. A better stragegy is the turn up the heat on Adobe and other companies that are using the DMCA by making the environment too painful for them. The best way, as said when starting this thread, is to hurt them with the once voice they listen to: the shareholder. As for all of the other, very traditional prtest mechanisms that people are suggesting, I think that they should wake up and smell the media boredom. This ain't the 1960s. The media -- who owns large stakes in a lot of these companies -- are on to those tricks and could care less about our .sig lines, our cutsey-politically-active bumper-stickers and our quaint righteous indignation. I couldn't but it better than the master himself, Tom Lehrer... _DHMS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Thu Jul 19 08:26:36 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest References: <200107191500.f6JF0dc03123@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> Message-ID: <00ec01c11067$36df8a20$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, David! > The bang we get for the buck in being able to launch class action suits > more than makes up for it. You are right, I'm not good in US stock market. And may be, I don't know, is it good for Adobe to increase number of stockholders. But I know, that if you buy stocks, you loose money. Its good, if they are used to fund FREE DMITRY movement. But that money aren't go to that movement, they are simply lost. A person can't donate infinite sum of money to help other individual. Thats why we will have less posters, stickers, etc. If I were you, I would buy Adobe stocks only if 2600 or EFF will officially ask people to do this. Then I will join many other stockholders, layers will use my vote to defend Dmitry, and my money willn't be lost. May be even better to give stock money to EFF -- they will buy out a packet of stocks or spend money on other important things, i.e. on Dmitry advocate or phone calls to motherland. Good Luck! Arvi the Hacker (AtH//UgF@hMoscow) From spector at zeitgeist.com Thu Jul 19 08:30:02 2001 From: spector at zeitgeist.com (David HM Spector) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Divestment? I think not... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:05:41 EDT." <20010719110541.G889@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <200107191530.f6JFU2F03237@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> Declan, You of all people should know (and I know you do..) that congress doesn't listen to us sheeple. They listen to Adobe, the MPAA and the rest of the un-indicted felons who bought and paid for these laws. Of course we should ALL call our congress-critters (I've already been burning the wires between Long Island and DC) and whine as loudly (and politely) as possible, but the best way to change this deplorable situation is to work on geting Adobe et al back down... ...the congress will follow. David From xyz at kalifornia.com Thu Jul 19 08:36:12 2001 From: xyz at kalifornia.com (xyz@kalifornia.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda In-Reply-To: <00b101c11064$2691fc00$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: Personally I think the T-Shirts are nice, the use of the Russian symbology would turn many away. However adding "Adobe " relating to them and using their same encryptiuon algorithm in the letters would be amusing. -A From esper at sherohman.org Thu Jul 19 08:38:03 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: ; from sonjat@cs.unm.edu on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 09:11:49AM -0600 References: <200107191436.f6JEabH03046@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> Message-ID: <20010719103802.G19001@sherohman.org> On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 09:11:49AM -0600, Sonja V. Tideman wrote: > Hello, > Would I actually qualify as a defendent in the lawsuit since my shares > were bought after Adobe committed the action that spawned the lawsuit? (I > have no idea about this) Not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, etc. In general, shareholders are not liable for the actions of a corporation unless they are actively involved in directing its actions (e.g., corporate officers). As the holder of a small number of shares, you are at no risk beyond the possible loss of the price you paid for those shares. From larsg at eurorights.org Thu Jul 19 08:40:08 2001 From: larsg at eurorights.org (Lars Gaarden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe MUST LOOSE! References: <200107191436.f6JEabH03046@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> <00a001c11061$cf2ba260$0100a8c0@sharhan> <00b101c11064$2691fc00$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: <3B56FF58.1050505@eurorights.org> Ilya V. Vasilyev wrote: > Adobe must loose! > > This is what we must remember. To loose money, to loose > customers. Stock prices must go down. Those, who can > do this legally, must do this in legal way. What would really hurt them, would be a class-action lawsuit from publishers and other companies that believed Adobe's claims that the eBook format was safe. A number of publishers suing for damage might cost Adobe a lot more in cash and good-will than anything a boycot by us nerds and hackers can achieve. -- "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead. From esper at sherohman.org Thu Jul 19 08:43:31 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DefCon presentation Message-ID: <20010719104331.H19001@sherohman.org> I've seen Dmitry's presentation scattered around a few sites in Powerpoint format. Does anyone have an HTML version or the ability to produce one? (If none of the existing sites are interested in hosting an HTML version, I can offer a server, but it's at the back end of a flaky DSL link, so it wouldn't provide a whole lot in the way of bandwidth or reliability.) From bill at scannell.org Thu Jul 19 08:47:46 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DefCon presentation In-Reply-To: <20010719104331.H19001@sherohman.org> Message-ID: We'll slap it up at BoycottAdobe. on 19.7.01 10:43, Dave Sherohman at esper@sherohman.org wrote: > I've seen Dmitry's presentation scattered around a few sites in > Powerpoint format. Does anyone have an HTML version or the ability > to produce one? (If none of the existing sites are interested in > hosting an HTML version, I can offer a server, but it's at the back > end of a flaky DSL link, so it wouldn't provide a whole lot in the > way of bandwidth or reliability.) > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From karl.deabrew at binarything.com Thu Jul 19 08:59:11 2001 From: karl.deabrew at binarything.com (Karl De Abrew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DefCon presentation Message-ID: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F585@mail.roundtable.com.au> We have a PDF version posted here at: ElcomSoft's DefCon 9 Presentation [PDF: 396 kb] http://www.planetpdf.com/planetpdf/pdfs/defcon9_elcomsoft.pdf It's also linked from our index page at http://www.planetebook.com/usvsklyarov -Karl > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Sherohman [mailto:esper@sherohman.org] > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 1:44 AM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: [free-sklyarov] DefCon presentation > > > I've seen Dmitry's presentation scattered around a few sites in > Powerpoint format. Does anyone have an HTML version or the ability > to produce one? (If none of the existing sites are interested in > hosting an HTML version, I can offer a server, but it's at the back > end of a flaky DSL link, so it wouldn't provide a whole lot in the > way of bandwidth or reliability.) > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From dredd at megacity.org Thu Jul 19 08:59:23 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: <20010719103802.G19001@sherohman.org> References: <200107191436.f6JEabH03046@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> <20010719103802.G19001@sherohman.org> Message-ID: At 10:38 AM -0500 7/19/01, Dave Sherohman wrote: >On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 09:11:49AM -0600, Sonja V. Tideman wrote: >> Hello, >> Would I actually qualify as a defendent in the lawsuit since my shares >> were bought after Adobe committed the action that spawned the lawsuit? (I >> have no idea about this) > >Not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, etc. > >In general, shareholders are not liable for the actions of a corporation >unless they are actively involved in directing its actions (e.g., corporate >officers). As the holder of a small number of shares, you are at no risk >beyond the possible loss of the price you paid for those shares. Actually, I think the question was misworded. I think he meant "If I buy the shares after the action I'm complaining about, how can I claim an aggrieved status as a plaintiff under a class action, when I should have done my due diligence before buying the stock". A very good question. d -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From Barmenkov at bpc.ru Thu Jul 19 08:52:09 2001 From: Barmenkov at bpc.ru (Barmenkov Denis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DefCon presentation Message-ID: <01BB80B981CFD4119BD2000021FE1B1012AAFE@BLADE> I've send entire presentation, grabbed in GIF format, to Dave Sherohman [mailto:esper@sherohman.org] Because there are near 500k, I can't send it into forum. So, Dave can placed it on its server. Denis Barmenkov > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Sherohman [mailto:esper@sherohman.org] > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 7:44 PM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: [free-sklyarov] DefCon presentation > > > I've seen Dmitry's presentation scattered around a few sites in > Powerpoint format. Does anyone have an HTML version or the ability > to produce one? (If none of the existing sites are interested in > hosting an HTML version, I can offer a server, but it's at the back > end of a flaky DSL link, so it wouldn't provide a whole lot in the > way of bandwidth or reliability.) > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From drumz at best.com Thu Jul 19 08:58:34 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: from "Sonja V. Tideman" at "Jul 19, 1 08:02:32 am" Message-ID: <200107191558.IAA03837@shell3.ba.best.com> Sonja writes: > Hello, > I live near the Denver area and was wondering what I could do to > help. This arrest absolutely infuriates, and makes me ashamed to be > American. I have never had to say that before, but now it is true. Welcome to the club! Ethan ;) -- "What are politicians going to tell people when the Constitution is gone and we still have a drug problem?" -- William Simpson From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 09:02:37 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe MUST LOOSE! In-Reply-To: <3B56FF58.1050505@eurorights.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Lars Gaarden wrote: > What would really hurt them, would be a class-action lawsuit from > publishers and other companies that believed Adobe's claims that the > eBook format was safe. A number of publishers suing for damage might > cost Adobe a lot more in cash and good-will than anything a boycot by > us nerds and hackers can achieve. It's exactly this kind of thinking that keeps corporate America in charge. We 'nerds and hackers' are their life-blood. We keep their systems doing what their systems should do. A walk-out would be INCREDIBLY effective. How many people here know folks at their work who simply CAN'T be fired (and certainly not en masse) because of the specialized knowledge they carry? How many "undocumented features" have we got in our heads that keep our companies running? Geeks of today have more power than the masons and shriners of the middle ages... our knowledge is more arcane and our influence over daily life is greater. We could turn that power over society into a power for real change! J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From drumz at best.com Thu Jul 19 09:06:58 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Stickers/Slogan In-Reply-To: from Bill Scannell at "Jul 19, 1 09:51:44 am" Message-ID: <200107191606.JAA06798@shell3.ba.best.com> Bill writes: > Bumper stickers are fine, but what we really need are true mime-producing > implements. Noooo! Memes I can see. The last thing we need is more mimes. > Anyone interested in pricing out what such a 2 color sticker would cost to > produce? iprint.com did 1000 gorgeous, custom Burning Man stickers for me at about $.10 apiece. Ethan -- "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws." -- Tacitus, Annals III 27 From ssteele at eff.org Thu Jul 19 09:17:13 2001 From: ssteele at eff.org (Shari Steele) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought for a slogan In-Reply-To: <001b01c1105e$ca1c3120$7f603c04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.1.20010719091357.02fb5e20@pop3.spa.norton.antivirus> Hi all. EFF has a bumper sticker that says "Coding Is Not a Crime" that we would be happy to make available for distribution. I'm not sure how many we have, but we do have some. We also have a large quantity of "Science Is Not a Crime" available. Shari At 07:26 AM 7/19/01 -0700, Jay Schneider wrote: >Hi All, > >I've been trying to come up with a soundbite/catch phrase that describes the >problem. Can I suggest: > >"Writing Code is not a Crime!" > >or more simply > >"Code is not a Crime" > >It seems to sing and IMHO describes the root of the problem. Well, at least >one of the roots of one of the problems. Hopefully, it'll make people think >and provide a favorable starting point for describing the problem to both >the masses and tech workers. If you like it use it! > >Jay Schneider > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov ~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~ Shari Steele Executive Director ssteele@eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation +1 415 436 9333 x103 (voice) 454 Shotwell Street +1 415 436 9993 (fax) San Francisco, CA 94110 From travel at elcomsoft.com Thu Jul 19 09:09:18 2001 From: travel at elcomsoft.com (Vladimir Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From Vladimir In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2651825671.20010719200918@elcomsoft.com> Hello all, That's Vladimir Katalov here. I'm a managing director of ElcomSoft, now in US, trying to help Dmitry. Thank you all, guys! -- Best regards, Vladimir mailto:travel@elcomsoft.com From esper at sherohman.org Thu Jul 19 09:09:04 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DefCon presentation In-Reply-To: ; from bill@scannell.org on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 10:47:46AM -0500 References: <20010719104331.H19001@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20010719110904.J19001@sherohman.org> On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 10:47:46AM -0500, Bill Scannell wrote: > We'll slap it up at BoycottAdobe. Cool. For a first cut, I'd suggest just linking to the PDF version at planetpdf, but if anyone has a decent ppt-to-html or pdf-to-html converter, I think that it would be good to get something in straight HTML - it's small, cross-platform, universally recognized, and about as open a format as you can get. If it comes down to it, I have crude tools for extracting text from PDFs, but they trash formatting. (ISTR that Office2k's version of Powerpoint can do 'save as HTML', which would probably be the most effective translation method.) From proclus at iname.com Thu Jul 19 08:14:53 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (Michael L. Love) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Divestment? I think not... References: Message-ID: <3B56F96D.4070805@iname.com> > Declan, > > You of all people should know (and I know you do..) that congress doesn't > listen to us sheeple. They listen to Adobe, the MPAA and the rest of > the un-indicted felons who bought and paid for these laws. No, although this is true under some circumstances, we will have enough people coming on board in this case to employ all reasonable means against Adobe. Please don't be discouraging. > > Of course we should ALL call our congress-critters (I've already been burning > the wires between Long Island and DC) and whine as loudly (and politely) > as possible, but the best way to change this deplorable > situation is to work on geting Adobe et al back down... > ...the congress will follow. Again, this is one valid strategy. Others will be employing other means so that we can crush from all sides. Many people can do many different things. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > > > David > > > > > > > -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From proclus at iname.com Thu Jul 19 08:19:08 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From Vladimir In-Reply-To: <2651825671.20010719200918@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: <200107191519.LAA12168@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> On 19 Jul, Vladimir Katalov wrote: > Hello all, > > That's Vladimir Katalov here. I'm a managing director of ElcomSoft, > now in US, trying to help Dmitry. > > Thank you all, guys! > Wonderful! I'm concerned about Dmitry's family. Will they be OK? Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From travel at elcomsoft.com Thu Jul 19 09:18:22 2001 From: travel at elcomsoft.com (Vladimir Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From Vladimir In-Reply-To: <200107191519.LAA12168@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> References: <200107191519.LAA12168@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <18352369563.20010719201822@elcomsoft.com> Hello proclus, pic> Wonderful! I'm concerned about Dmitry's family. Will they be OK? I hope... Of course they really worry about him, because FBI/police didn't allow Dmit to talk to his family. -- Best regards, Vladimir mailto:travel@elcomsoft.com From batout at ofhell.org Thu Jul 19 09:21:15 2001 From: batout at ofhell.org (bat out of hell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A different angle In-Reply-To: ; from jeme@brelin.net on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 09:02:37AM -0700 References: <3B56FF58.1050505@eurorights.org> Message-ID: <20010719112115.A14650@ofhell.org> On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Lars Gaarden wrote: > What would really hurt them, would be a class-action lawsuit from > publishers and other companies that believed Adobe's claims that the > eBook format was safe. A number of publishers suing for damage might > cost Adobe a lot more in cash and good-will than anything a boycot by > us nerds and hackers can achieve. Well this might sound silly, but this is the angle I'm going to try. I'm currently a rabid fan of the author George R. R. Martin. I buy multiple copies of his books, in hardback and paperback. I don't know if his books are available in e-book format, and I guess it really doesn't matter. When you get right down to it, his publisher is making a lot of money off me, and other fans that are just as dedicated as I am. Yes, this has a point, which I'm getting to shortly. Mr. Martin's publisher makes a lot of money off me. I am going to write to his publisher, as a dedicated consumer of their product, and request that they will not support Adobe's ebook technology. I'm going to explain the situation in a rational manner, and diplomatically point out that I don't wish my favorite author to be hurt, by either Adobe's complete lack of security, or by an Adobe boycott. To illustrate the importance of people like me to the publishing industry, I'm going to dig up a few Barnes & Noble receipts and attach those along with my letter. (Yeah, I'm actually gonna do the pen and paper thing.) I don't know profitable eBooks are to publishers. If I like an author as much as I like George Martin, I go out and buy two copies of each of his books in hardback: one to read, the other to wrap in plastic and save. When the paperbacks are released, I purchase two copies: one to lend, and one to reread and dogear and make notes in. I don't want to buy books in electronic format. I'm a computer nerd, yeah, but it's so much more satisfying to me, to read a book the old fashioned way. I think there may be a lot of geeks who agree with me. If we're the ones the publishers are targetting eBooks at, and we aren't using it? Who knows, they may listen. Without fanatic book lovers like me, the publishers wouldn't be in business... and they're aware of this. In any case, we have a better chance of publishers listening to us, than we do of Adobe listening to us. And the publishers have a better chance of Adobe listening to them, than we do. So, that's *my* plan... if anyone wants to follow suit, hopefully we might see results. Sorry about my verbosity :) -Sally From proclus at iname.com Thu Jul 19 08:31:47 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From Vladimir In-Reply-To: <18352369563.20010719201822@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: <200107191531.LAA12175@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> On 19 Jul, Vladimir Katalov wrote: > Hello proclus, > > pic> Wonderful! I'm concerned about Dmitry's family. Will they be OK? > > I hope... Maybe we can arrange something more than hope here somehow. > Of course they really worry about him, because FBI/police > didn't allow Dmit to talk to his family. > That is simply deplorable. I'm aghast. If you get in touch with them, please send along the love and encouragement of the people here. Hopefully, we can put an end to their ordeal soon. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From proclus at iname.com Thu Jul 19 08:41:22 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A different angle In-Reply-To: <20010719112115.A14650@ofhell.org> Message-ID: <200107191541.LAA12180@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> On 19 Jul, bat out of hell wrote: > On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Lars Gaarden wrote: >> What would really hurt them, would be a class-action lawsuit from >> publishers and other companies that believed Adobe's claims that the >> eBook format was safe. A number of publishers suing for damage might >> cost Adobe a lot more in cash and good-will than anything a boycot by >> us nerds and hackers can achieve. > > Well this might sound silly, but this is the angle I'm going to try. Hey, maybe that is not such a silly idea. Adobe is trying to deprive their customers of their fair use rights. Moreover, isn't there an argument to be made such that personal property like eBooks trumps Adobe's so-called intellectual property rights? What Dmitry did probably is illegal under DMCA, but in such a case, the enforcement would also be illegal and to greater harm. Hey, clearly I'm no lawyer... Just an attempt at some common sense here. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > > I'm currently a rabid fan of the author George R. R. Martin. I buy multiple copies of his books, in hardback and paperback. I don't know if his books are available in e-book format, and I guess it really doesn't matter. When you get right down to it, his publisher is making a lot of money off me, and other fans that are just as dedicated as I am. > > Yes, this has a point, which I'm getting to shortly. > > Mr. Martin's publisher makes a lot of money off me. I am going to write to his publisher, as a dedicated consumer of their product, and request that they will not support Adobe's ebook technology. I'm going to explain the situation in a rational manner, and diplomatically point out that I don't wish my favorite author to be hurt, by either Adobe's complete lack of security, or by an Adobe boycott. To illustrate the importance of people like me to the publishing industry, I'm going to dig up a few Barnes & Noble receipts and attach those along with my letter. (Yeah, I'm actually gonna do the pen and paper thing.) > > I don't know profitable eBooks are to publishers. If I like an author as much as I like George Martin, I go out and buy two copies of each of his books in hardback: one to read, the other to wrap in plastic and save. When the paperbacks are released, I purchase two copies: one to lend, and one to reread and dogear and make notes in. I don't want to buy books in electronic format. I'm a computer nerd, yeah, but it's so much more satisfying to me, to read a book the old fashioned way. I think there may be a lot of geeks who agree with me. If we're the ones the publishers are targetting eBooks at, and we aren't using it? Who knows, they may listen. Without fanatic book lovers like me, the publishers wouldn't be in business... and they're aware of this. > > In any case, we have a better chance of publishers listening to us, than we do of Adobe listening to us. And the publishers have a better chance of Adobe listening to them, than we do. > > So, that's *my* plan... if anyone wants to follow suit, hopefully we might see results. Sorry about my verbosity :) > > -Sally > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Thu Jul 19 09:46:39 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From Vladimir References: <2651825671.20010719200918@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: <01a901c11072$670b1420$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, Vladimir! > That's Vladimir Katalov here. I'm a managing director of ElcomSoft, > now in US, trying to help Dmitry. Glad to hear from you. I'm AtH, that helped 2600 to make Free Kevin Demonstration in Moscow. Are there availiable "official" press-releases on Russian or we should send to newspapers some texts of our own? Is it clear the major points of defence, that we must strike in letters to public? As for now, have Dmitry some advocate or layer in States? I prefer actions, coordinated by responsible and competent person. If you want something to be done in Moscow, just say it. We can translate texts in both sides, organize press-conference and actions. People advice to spread flyers in Duma and Foreign Ministry, search people there... - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From wendy at seltzer.com Thu Jul 19 09:45:40 2001 From: wendy at seltzer.com (Wendy Seltzer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DefCon presentation In-Reply-To: <20010719110904.J19001@sherohman.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 10:47:46AM -0500, Bill Scannell wrote: > > We'll slap it up at BoycottAdobe. > > Cool. For a first cut, I'd suggest just linking to the PDF version > at planetpdf, but if anyone has a decent ppt-to-html or pdf-to-html > converter, I think that it would be good to get something in straight > HTML - it's small, cross-platform, universally recognized, and about > as open a format as you can get. Of course, there's a nice irony in posting in PDF. (And Adobe and their supporters in the US Gov't would claim that if we encrypted that, it would still be illegal for us to distribute a program to decrypt it.) --Wendy From xyz at kalifornia.com Thu Jul 19 10:02:39 2001 From: xyz at kalifornia.com (xyz@kalifornia.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From Vladimir In-Reply-To: <01a901c11072$670b1420$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: > I'm AtH, that helped 2600 to make Free Kevin Demonstration > in Moscow. Are there availiable "official" press-releases > on Russian or we should send to newspapers some texts > of our own? In the states, it would be best to write directly to the newspapers, a single organized well thought out statement and stick to it. > Is it clear the major points of defence, that we must strike > in letters to public? As for now, have Dmitry some advocate > or layer in States? I prefer actions, coordinated by > responsible and competent person. The ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) would love to get a stab at this. http://www.aclu.org, I'm sure you could get some assistance however they would greatly appreciate a donation. -A From sonjat at cs.unm.edu Thu Jul 19 10:04:37 2001 From: sonjat at cs.unm.edu (Sonja V. Tideman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Derek Balling wrote: > > Actually, I think the question was misworded. I think he meant "If I > buy the shares after the action I'm complaining about, how can I > claim an aggrieved status as a plaintiff under a class action, when I > should have done my due diligence before buying the stock". > > A very good question. > > d I suppose there is a reason I am not a lawyer :-) That is exactly what I meant, but I worded it completely wrong. Thanks > > -- > +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ > | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | > | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | > | | driven before you, and to hear the | > | | lamentation of their women!" | > +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From karl.deabrew at binarything.com Thu Jul 19 10:04:39 2001 From: karl.deabrew at binarything.com (Karl De Abrew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Photo of Dmitry Message-ID: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F591@mail.roundtable.com.au> If you'd like to see a photo of Dmitry head to http://www.planetebook.com/ -Karl From fred1 at inebraska.com Thu Jul 19 10:09:04 2001 From: fred1 at inebraska.com (Gary L. Dolan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From Vladimir References: <200107191531.LAA12175@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <3B571430.88A3416F@inebraska.com> > > On 19 Jul, Vladimir Katalov wrote: > > Hello proclus, > > > > pic> Wonderful! I'm concerned about Dmitry's family. Will they be OK? > > > > I hope... > > Maybe we can arrange something more than hope here somehow. > > > Of course they really worry about him, because FBI/police > > didn't allow Dmit to talk to his family. > > > > That is simply deplorable. I'm aghast. If you get in touch with them, > please send along the love and encouragement of the people here. > Hopefully, we can put an end to their ordeal soon. Remember that the Dept. of Justice and the FBI have no sense of proportion or limits (just recall Wen Ho Lee) so it really is important to pursue this quickly and diligently. I think we could also consider contacts with our Congressional representatives, being careful to be non-hysterical and factual (hyperbole is not helpful). We might give some thought to a possible approach to the Leary committee staff, since it is holding hearings on the FBI presently. Just some thoughts. -- Gary L. Dolan Debian GNU/Linux 2.2, kernel 2.4.6 FreeBSD 4.3 STABLE From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 10:09:32 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <87g0bs7smr.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "DB" == Derek Balling writes: DB> DMCA violations are something the people "don't understand", DB> by and large. Around HERE, in our cloistered little high tech DB> environs, there may be a larger-than-normal understanding, but DB> the masses don't understand it all. The point is very, very simple: FAIR USE. "Fair use" means that if you buy something, you get to use it however you want. If you buy a newspaper, you can use it to line your birdcage. If you buy a book, you can give it to your Mom to read. If you buy a piece of software, you can make a backup. If you buy an electronic book, you can change the font so it doesn't hurt your eyes. People understand "fair." People understand "computer files." People understand "my computer, my files." People understand "a man is in jail unfairly." Down to the specifics: 1. Adobe Inc. wants to take away YOUR rights to use files you paid for, on YOUR computer, as you see fit. They don't trust you to be honest, so they use software to take away as many of your rights as they can. 2. A programmer from Russia named Dmitry Sklyarov figured out how to stop Adobe from doing this. 3. Because of a misguided law called the DMCA, someone who writes software that protects your rights as a consumer can go to jail. 4. When he was visiting the U.S. for a conference, Adobe asked the FBI to put him in jail, which they did. 5. And we think that's unfair. 6. So we want Dmitry Sklyarov out of jail immediately. 7. And we want the DMCA repealed. Jeez, man, this is --waaaaay-- simpler than Mumia Abu Jamal. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From xyz at kalifornia.com Thu Jul 19 10:19:23 2001 From: xyz at kalifornia.com (xyz@kalifornia.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3B571430.88A3416F@inebraska.com> Message-ID: Case highlights law's threat to fair-use rights Silicon Valley, 7/19/2001 http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/opinion/dgillmor/dg071801.htm The music industry is no longer threatening computer science professor Ed Felten with civil lawsuits for his research into one of the industry's digital copy-protection schemes. He doesn't have the same assurance, however, that the United States government won't launch a criminal prosecution if he proceeds. That uncertainty grew more pronounced this week when the FBI arrested a visiting Russian computer scientist Monday in Las Vegas, charging him with violating the 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act by distributing software that cracked a system for encrypting electronic books. It was one of the first criminal prosecutions under a bad law that was designed to protect copyright owners from unauthorized copying but is having all kinds of other negative effects. Before I explain why Felten feels more jeopardy than ever as a result of his efforts to publish scholarly research, you need to understand some background as well as what happened to the Russian programmer. The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), a gift to the well-financed entertainment and software industries, trashed the public interest. It gave copyright owners the right to assert absolute control over copyrighted material, effectively allowing them to prevent the public from asserting a variety of traditional user's rights, including the ``fair use'' of making personal copies. In this week's case, Adobe Systems sicced the cops on the Russian programmer, Dmitry Sklyarov, who'd written and was selling software that broke Adobe's encryption method for the Acrobat software it uses for what it calls eBooks. Sklyarov, in Las Vegas at a security conference, was arrested after giving a talk on -- you guessed it -- security measures in electronic books. The DMCA makes it a crime to ``manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component or part thereof'' that ``is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof.'' Hollywood, the music industry and software companies have used this breathtakingly broad measure to file a variety of civil lawsuits. The recording companies' threats against Felten and his colleagues were part of a campaign to keep software that breaks encryption, no matter how feeble the encryption method is in the first place, out of circulation. It's as if we outlawed cars on the principle that they could be used to help crooks escape from bank robberies. Please understand what's at stake here -- some fundamental and traditional rights. Software that breaks encryption schemes is not, by itself, a certain sign that its purpose is to help people make illegal copies. We have the right to make personal copies of copyrighted works. That's fair use, and fair use is enshrined in our law. Sklyarov's company, ElcomSoft (www.elcomsoft.com), says its software has entirely legitimate uses. People who have purchased eBook files can convert the files to a format that can be read on types of computers not currently supported by Adobe's eBook Reader software, for example. The company, on its Web site, also offers scathing criticism of Adobe's encryption methods, saying they are inherently weak. For its part, Adobe seems to see only the piracy potential in such code-breaking software. In the process, Adobe is asserting the right to prevent people from making fair-use rights with electronic books they buy. Hollywood and the record industry insist on the same restrictive control over digital versions of the works they own. OK, back to Felten, who teaches at Princeton University. He ran afoul of the DMCA earlier this year. He and other researchers had taken up the music industry's challenge to break a digital watermarking scheme that was under consideration for CDs and other digitally recorded music. They easily defeated the watermarking system, and prepared to describe their results at an academic conference. But the music industry -- specifically, a consortium that has come up with the watermarking idea in the first place -- and a software company that had worked on the system threatened the researchers, citing the DMCA, leading them to withdraw their paper. Felten and his colleagues then filed suit, asking a federal judge in New Jersey to specifically allow them to publish -- to allow them their First Amendment rights -- and declare the DMCA unconstitutional. The industry and software company, no doubt realizing their blunder, have sent letters to the judge, promising they won't sue even if the paper is published. But the U.S. Justice Department, also a defendant in the Felten suit, hasn't responded. And after Tuesday's arrest, it's no wonder that Felten -- and programmers and researchers everywhere -- should be feeling considerably more nervous. A federal prosecutor in San Jose told me Tuesday that the law under which was Sklyarov charged wouldn't apply in Felten's case, but why should he take the risk? So, under the DMCA, it's a crime to spread the word about technology that maintains your fair-use rights. One of these days, it may be a crime to talk about anything that displeases the control freaks who run the entertainment and software industries. From robert at infoserf.net Thu Jul 19 10:27:04 2001 From: robert at infoserf.net (Robert Lemos) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <87g0bs7smr.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <3B571868.822977FE@infoserf.net> Klepht: This issue here is not that Adobe wants to take away your rights, but that your rights have already been curtailed as appled to digital media by the DMCA. While IANAL (but I do cover this area), in Universal v. Reimerez et al., the court ruled that the Fair Use provisions in the Audio Home Recording Act do not trump the DMCA, but just the opposite. That Congress, in passing the DMCA, decided to apply the fair use provisions in a narrower context, so in passing the DMCA, Congress essentially decided -- whether it was their intent or not -- to reduce the fair-use rights of citizens. Not to make excuses for Adobe, but the company is just using one of the available tools out there to reduce competition in the market for their products. That's what business is all about. They have a right to do that under the law. While the bad publicity, may get them to withdraw from the case, which could -- and I repeat, could -- cause the DOJ to drop the case (since their main witness would be gone), that still leaves the fair-use restrictions of the DMCA in place. As unfeeling as this may sound, it would seem to me that the best interest of citizens would be served if all three cases -- Universal v. Reimerez et al., Felton v. RIAA et al. and U.S. DOJ v. Sklyarov -- got tried, went to appeal and then ended up in front of the Supreme court. In no other way, except if Congress passes a law that trumps the DMCA, will the domain of the fair-use provisions be expanded. -R --- Robert Lemos Technical writer Klepht wrote: > > >>>>> "DB" == Derek Balling writes: > > DB> DMCA violations are something the people "don't understand", > DB> by and large. Around HERE, in our cloistered little high tech > DB> environs, there may be a larger-than-normal understanding, but > DB> the masses don't understand it all. > > The point is very, very simple: FAIR USE. "Fair use" means that if you > buy something, you get to use it however you want. If you buy a > newspaper, you can use it to line your birdcage. If you buy a book, > you can give it to your Mom to read. If you buy a piece of software, > you can make a backup. If you buy an electronic book, you can change > the font so it doesn't hurt your eyes. > > People understand "fair." People understand "computer files." People > understand "my computer, my files." People understand "a man is in > jail unfairly." > > Down to the specifics: > > 1. Adobe Inc. wants to take away YOUR rights to use files you paid > for, on YOUR computer, as you see fit. They don't trust you to be > honest, so they use software to take away as many of your rights as > they can. > > 2. A programmer from Russia named Dmitry Sklyarov figured out how to > stop Adobe from doing this. > > 3. Because of a misguided law called the DMCA, someone who writes > software that protects your rights as a consumer can go to jail. > > 4. When he was visiting the U.S. for a conference, Adobe asked the FBI > to put him in jail, which they did. > > 5. And we think that's unfair. > > 6. So we want Dmitry Sklyarov out of jail immediately. > > 7. And we want the DMCA repealed. > > Jeez, man, this is --waaaaay-- simpler than Mumia Abu Jamal. > > ~Klepht > > -- > klepht@eleutheria.org > http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- From dmarti at zgp.org Thu Jul 19 10:39:03 2001 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] San Jose Monday: schedule and directions Message-ID: <20010719103903.A8245@zgp.org> This is a summary of the plans for the demonstration at Adobe that we discussed at the meeting last night. We agreed to meet at the park and walk to Adobe together, and the snake is an obvious meeting place that is close to, but out of line of sight from, Adobe HQ. Free Dmitry March on Adobe Monday, July 23, 2001, 11AM-1PM Downtown San Jose, California, USA MEET AT THE SNAKE: We will be meeting in downtown San Jose at the snake sculpture, Quetzalcoatl, which is at the south end of Cesar de Chavez Park, at the corner of South Market St. and West San Carlos St. Cesar de Chavez Park is across San Carlos from the Hyatt St. Claire Hotel, near the San Jose Convention Center. From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 10:49:42 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <3B571868.822977FE@infoserf.net> References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <87g0bs7smr.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <3B571868.822977FE@infoserf.net> Message-ID: <87ae207qrt.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "RL" == Robert Lemos writes: RL> Klepht: This issue here is not that Adobe wants to take away RL> your rights, but that your rights have already been curtailed RL> as appled to digital media by the DMCA. Robert, Sorry, I was intentionally dumbing down the issue to point out that it can be easily understood by most people. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From nutter at technologist.com Thu Jul 19 11:00:14 2001 From: nutter at technologist.com (Emerson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Need banner! Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010719120014.01bf38e0@pop.freeserve.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Folks, Is there a banner or little button somewhere which can be put on a www page? I think we should stick one on Packetstorm, as if sklyarov goes to sing sing, then Packetstorm is potentially in serious trouble too for good and obvious reasons. Let me know, small and inoffensive is best. Emerson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBO1cgLbAwpha8VR2jEQJj7QCgvD6tbptDvcd2KI/HZvNq1UbjXZQAoLv6 D6ndKHKyO7mCQM6wd2CIzT7y =arZn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --- "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw Emerson : Project Director, www.PacketstormSecurity.org upsetting the easily distressed since 1975! et@c4i.org ICQ UIN: 13396569, PGP Key available, just ask. From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 11:02:11 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: References: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F55F@mail.roundtable.com.au> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719110024.03d78690@pop3.norton.antivirus> Hey Sonja, It would be great if you could drum up a protest in Denver as well. Folks from other cities who can protest, please email help-sklyarov@eff.org or this list and we can get you sample protest materials as soon as they are available. Please let us know if you are going to protest, so that we can maximize public attention (media coverage) of the issue. Thanks, Will Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 08:02 AM 7/19/2001 -0600, Sonja V. Tideman wrote: >Hello, > I live near the Denver area and was wondering what I could do to >help. This arrest absolutely infuriates, and makes me ashamed to be >American. I have never had to say that before, but now it is true. I >know Denver does not have the IT population of the Bay Area, but there are >a lot of IT workers here and I was thinking that perhaps we could have a >protest outside one of the federal buildings here as well. I would like >to do something. > > >Thanks > Sonja > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From car77 at web.de Thu Jul 19 11:04:20 2001 From: car77 at web.de (B. Trueger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] lawyer, diplomatic counsel, etc References: Message-ID: <005001c1107d$3cc05a80$5149d1d5@critical> I am jumping in to find out if D. Sklyarov already has a capable lawyer. Has he made contact with his embassy for legal advice? Is he allowed to contact agencies and organisations like EFF or wired ? Currently in the media (here in Germany) is the story that the US authorities "like" to forget about declaring the rights an arrested alien has in their country (which means contact to his embassy and such). Reading here that even his family is cut off from contact, it sound to me that this might by another case like it. Can someone light up on this question? ---[car77@web.de]---[Fax/Voice via email +49-1212-511-03-06-94]-------[snip]--- From noring at olagrande.net Thu Jul 19 11:08:20 2001 From: noring at olagrande.net (noring@olagrande.net) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Proposal -- Start an Online Petition Drive Regarding Sklyarov Arrest Message-ID: <200107191808.NAA02207@og1.olagrande.net> Hello, As one who helped with the anti-CDA petition drive a few years ago which got about 130,000 signatures, I propose that we start an online petition drive concerning Sklyarov, Adobe and/or the DMCA. (I recall there being at least one web site for the purpose of running online petitions so we could use such a service or simply put a web form up somewhere -- I prefer the former.) Of course, we need to decide upon: 1) Does it make any sense to devote energy to it? 2) If so, what should be the wording of the petition statement? Who and what should it be focused towards? 3) How do we promote the petition to get the general net community interested in it and to e-sign it? Regarding 1), of course I believe it will be useful. It serves three important functions: a) It promotes awareness of the situation and the Big Picture behind it to the general net community (one result is to bring new activists into the battle, as well as the petition alone brings more news media coverage -- this happened with the anti-CDA petition), b) It provides a way for concerned citizens to do *something* (it is easy to sign a petition while for most doing anything more is difficult for whatever reason such as lack of time), and it is well-known that once a person does something, they have psychologically committed themselves to the cause, and will become more aware of this and similar civil liberties issues. c) It is a morale booster (provided the number of signatures is adequate) to those in the trenches fighting the DMCA and the prosecution of Dmitry. Of course, Dmitry himself will be very appreciative since he needs to really know a lot of people out there are on his side. Let me make it clear that the petition is not likely to change the minds of the Feds where they will decide not to prosecute Dmitry (but it will make them aware that many eyes are looking at everything they are doing -- the psychological impact on the DoJ cannot be understated), nor will it sway the courts in their future deliberations regarding Dmitry and DMCA in general (it might sway Adobe's position, though, and might even convince a few Congresspersons to take action to try to defang DMCA through legislation.) However, the benefits of a) to c) above are adequate to justify the effort, in my opinion. Regarding 2), the petition statement wording must be very carefully worded -- concise, non-conspiratorial/non-libelous and moderate in tone, must focus on the important issues, and of course to state something we "all" can agree upon, rather than trying to be too extreme. It must also convey reference sources for the interested person to look up and study the issues surrounding the DMCA before deciding to e-sign the petition. Regarding 3), we certainly need an aggressive campaign to "get out the vote". We will need a couple dozen or more core people to circulate the petition to relevant online forums/ lists/boards/newsgroups etc., and to solicit others to pass it on to their friends and so on. There are probably other ways to promote it as well (geez, if we can get Matt Drudge to report on this petition, we'd get several hundred thousand signatures from that alone!) We also need to decide what we do with all these signatures (of course, we have to ensure email address privacy in some way) once we collect them, and how to maximize the impact of what we did collect. Finally, we need to act and get this out within hours, not days, since we have momentum at the moment, and much interest, but this is fleeting, and we must strike while the iron is hot -- if anything, the petition will keep the momentum going as I observed with the CDA. Since Shari Steele at EFF is a subscriber to this list, hopefully she will weigh in with her thoughts on the pros and cons of this proposed petition drive. If EFF feels it is not a good idea, then I will go along with their view and withdraw my proposal. Jon Noring From bill at scannell.org Thu Jul 19 11:10:38 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattle Protest In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719110024.03d78690@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: I'll be in Seattle on Monday. Is there anyone interested in picketing the Seattle (Freemont) Adobe office? -Bill ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Thu Jul 19 11:12:51 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Russian Consulate in SF References: Message-ID: <3B572323.3D7C056@sheffield.ac.uk> I've just spoken to Vladimir Aleksandrovich Nebyvaev in the Russian Consulati in SF. He is the person that should be contacted regading to this case. His answer is: 1. There was no!! denial from american side for the consulate employees to visit Dmitry. He says such a visit is being planned but since there are lots of bureacratic detailes involved this visit has not take place yet. 2. Russian side has no!! complaints at all regarding the case. Thay say that everything is going according to the federal law and all they can do is to wait. 3. I asked him if there is anything he would advise me (us (in the UK, in the USA and in Moscow)) to undertake. He told me that his opinion is that we can do whatever we want but he does not think it will have any effect. I therefore ask those of you who will take part in any action (against Adobe or any other): be reasonable, do not exaggerate or distort the facts in any way. I'm deeply concerned that it might be even worse for Dmitry after all. Finally, what happened with EFF site. I cannot connect to them. anton --------------------------------------- Anton Chterenlikht Research Assistant Mechanical Engineering Department Sheffield University Mappin Street Sheffield S1 3JD UK Tel: (+) 114 2227863 Fax: (+) 114 2226015 Email: a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk --------------------------------------- From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 11:17:04 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? Message-ID: <87u2086axr.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "RL" == Robert Lemos writes: RL> No apologies necessary. Uh, the "Sorry" meant, "Sorry you read my message so poorly and didn't understand me." It doesn't mean, "I subscribe to your point of view." RL> I just wanted to make the issue clear here before people RL> start thinking getting Adobe to drop the case is the goal. WHAT?! It is _absolutely,_positively_ the goal! The two goals are: 1) Free Dmitry. 2) Overturn the DMCA. Anyone who is opposed to the first one, in order to further the second, should probably start their own "Exploit Dmitry" mailing list. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From esper at sherohman.org Thu Jul 19 11:16:39 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] lawyer, diplomatic counsel, etc In-Reply-To: <005001c1107d$3cc05a80$5149d1d5@critical>; from car77@web.de on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 08:04:20PM +0200 References: <005001c1107d$3cc05a80$5149d1d5@critical> Message-ID: <20010719131639.M19001@sherohman.org> On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 08:04:20PM +0200, B. Trueger wrote: > I am jumping in to find out if D. Sklyarov already has a capable lawyer. The EFF appears to be interested in handling his defense. > Has > he made contact with his embassy for legal advice? Is he allowed to contact > agencies and organisations like EFF or wired ? According to a message by Bill Scannell to this list early this morning, Dmitry has not been allowed contact with the Russian consulate or any other outside agency. It is suspected that the FBI may be holding him in solitary confinement, but, AFAIK, this has not been confirmed. > Currently in the media (here in Germany) is the story that the US > authorities "like" to forget about declaring the rights an arrested alien > has in their country (which means contact to his embassy and such). Reading > here that even his family is cut off from contact, it sound to me that this > might by another case like it. Yep, it sounds like it probably is. -- It's as if we outlawed cars on the principle that they could be used to help crooks escape from bank robberies. - Dan Gillmore on the DMCA From dredd at megacity.org Thu Jul 19 11:23:29 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <87g0bs7smr.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <87g0bs7smr.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: At 10:09 AM -0700 7/19/01, Klepht wrote: >The point is very, very simple: FAIR USE. "Fair use" means that if you >buy something, you get to use it however you want. If you buy a >newspaper, you can use it to line your birdcage. If you buy a book, >you can give it to your Mom to read. If you buy a piece of software, >you can make a backup. If you buy an electronic book, you can change >the font so it doesn't hurt your eyes. >People understand "fair." People understand "computer files." People >understand "my computer, my files." People understand "a man is in >jail unfairly." Again, you're preaching to the choir. _I_ understand the correlation between fair-use on books and fair-use on e-books, but the media has biased the "masses" against "hackers" through years of bad press. As I write the paragraphs below, I want to be clear that I *don't* believe these things I'm saying, but that it is "the response" you'll get if you make these arguments to the uneducated masses. >1. Adobe Inc. wants to take away YOUR rights to use files you paid > for, on YOUR computer, as you see fit. They don't trust you to be > honest, so they use software to take away as many of your rights as > they can. It's "copy protection", and the majority of the people will read that "copy protection breaking" as "bad", even if it isn't. They'll also note that "he had to break an encryption algorithm designed to protect the copyrighted work" (which sounds scary, like something bad people do), and they'll accept it at that. >2. A programmer from Russia named Dmitry Sklyarov figured out how to > stop Adobe from doing this. Bad bad Russian hacker. >3. Because of a misguided law called the DMCA, someone who writes > software that protects your rights as a consumer can go to jail. He didn't "protect my rights", he was an evil russian hacker who was hacking Adobe's secret codes. >4. When he was visiting the U.S. for a conference, Adobe asked the FBI > to put him in jail, which they did. Yayyyyy, we caught one of those hacker guys! Seriously, if you can't get them on the other issues, and I don't think the non-computer-literate are going to be hooked, this is just "the justice system doing its job". >5. And we think that's unfair. You're not a hacker, too, are you? >6. So we want Dmitry Sklyarov out of jail immediately. You're making demands? You're not going to like, hack the air-traffic control system to get what you want, are you? >7. And we want the DMCA repealed. More demands? Seriously, don't get me wrong, I'm ALL FOR what you're saying, but I think you miss that the average person is a sheep, who accepts as undiluted truth what is spoon-fed to them via the media. They're already convinced hackers are evil creatures, who exist solely to steal their data, breaking the secret codes that keep their data private. In their eyes, this is just a Russian punk, who broke Adobe's codes, got busted, and now has a bunch of other criminal hacker-types demanding his release. (the "...or else" will never be spoken, but the unwashed masses will think it is there, even though it isn't, because they view the hacker-types with suspicion). D -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From bill at scannell.org Thu Jul 19 11:24:31 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Russian Consulate in SF In-Reply-To: <3B572323.3D7C056@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi there, First, thanks for giving him a call. I spoke to him this morning, too. If you were also able to get past his diplomatic double-talk, you would have found out that: A) No one other than US law enforcement has spoken to Sklyarov since his arrest; B) The Russians are in contact with Department of State, Immigration and FBI to get access to him; C) There was no outright refusal on the part of the US to allow access to the Russian government, buy they certainly haven't been giving access; D) Sklyarov has not been allowed phone contact with either his government, family or employer since his arrest. The Russians are working the situation diplomatically. That does not mean we non-diplomats can't put it in plain English. -Bill on 19.7.01 13:12, Anton Chterenlikht at a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk wrote: > I've just spoken to Vladimir Aleksandrovich Nebyvaev in the Russian Consulati > in SF. He is the person that should be contacted regading to this case. His > answer is: > > 1. There was no!! denial from american side for the consulate employees to > visit Dmitry. He says such a visit is being planned but since there are lots > of bureacratic detailes involved this visit has not take place yet. > > 2. Russian side has no!! complaints at all regarding the case. Thay say that > everything is going according to the federal law and all they can do is to > wait. > > 3. I asked him if there is anything he would advise me (us (in the UK, in the > USA and in Moscow)) to undertake. He told me that his opinion is that we can > do whatever we want but he does not think it will have any effect. > > I therefore ask those of you who will take part in any action (against Adobe > or any other): be reasonable, do not exaggerate or distort the facts in any > way. I'm deeply concerned that it might be even worse for Dmitry after all. > > Finally, what happened with EFF site. I cannot connect to them. > > anton > > --------------------------------------- > Anton Chterenlikht > Research Assistant > > Mechanical Engineering Department > Sheffield University > Mappin Street > Sheffield S1 3JD > UK > Tel: (+) 114 2227863 > Fax: (+) 114 2226015 > Email: a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk > --------------------------------------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From travel at elcomsoft.com Thu Jul 19 11:23:54 2001 From: travel at elcomsoft.com (Vladimir Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From Vladimir In-Reply-To: <01a901c11072$670b1420$0100a8c0@sharhan> References: <2651825671.20010719200918@elcomsoft.com> <01a901c11072$670b1420$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: <13359901023.20010719222354@elcomsoft.com> Hello Ilya, IVV> I'm AtH, that helped 2600 to make Free Kevin Demonstration IVV> in Moscow. Are there availiable "official" press-releases IVV> on Russian or we should send to newspapers some texts IVV> of our own? Sorry, not yet. IVV> As for now, have Dmitry some advocate IVV> or layer in States? Yes -- from EFF. IVV> I prefer actions, coordinated by IVV> responsible and competent person. That's 100% correct idia. -- Best regards, Vladimir mailto:travel@elcomsoft.com From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 11:35:15 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattle Protest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Bill Scannell wrote: > I'll be in Seattle on Monday. Is there anyone interested in picketing the > Seattle (Freemont) Adobe office? I live in Portland and, while I'd like to drum something up here, we could do the federal building, but have no Adobe offices. I'm torn on two counts: 1) I'd like to do something in my own city and 2) I think Adobe is just protecting itself using the existing law and it is the law that needs revision (Title 17 en toto, not just Sec. 1201). But if you organize something, I'll come up Monday morning if I can't get much going here. Then again, I just MAY fly down to San Jose for their thing Monday... if I do that, I'll fly out tomorrow afternoon. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From salgak at speakeasy.net Thu Jul 19 11:41:00 2001 From: salgak at speakeasy.net (Keith A. Glass) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Proposal -- Start an Online Petition Drive Regarding Sklyarov Arrest Message-ID: <200107191841.LAA23330@webmail.speakeasy.net> > As one who helped with the anti-CDA petition drive a few > years ago which got about 130,000 signatures, I propose > that we start an online petition drive concerning Sklyarov, > Adobe and/or the DMCA. (I recall there being at least one > web site for the purpose of running online petitions so > we could use such a service or simply put a web form up > somewhere -- I prefer the former.) > > Of course, we need to decide upon: > > 1) Does it make any sense to devote energy to it? Yes > 2) If so, what should be the wording of the petition > statement? Who and what should it be focused > towards? Thinking that issue: Primary focus: Get Dmitri out of jail and on a plane home. THEN we fight the DMCA. . . > 3) How do we promote the petition to get the > general net community interested in it and to > e-sign it? www.petitiononline.com looks like the obvious place. I'd also suggest vote.com, because THAT autogenerates email to to proper parties. . . > Regarding 2), the petition statement wording must be very > carefully worded -- concise, non-conspiratorial/non-libelous > and moderate in tone, must focus on the important issues, and > of course to state something we "all" can agree upon, rather > than trying to be too extreme. It must also convey reference > sources for the interested person to look up and study the > issues surrounding the DMCA before deciding to e-sign the > petition. That's along the lines that I've been counseling people. ESPECIALLY with the G-8 meeting this weekend. We have to stay rational, calm, and logical. We're already going to have an uphill publicity battle with Joe and Jane Public, because Adobe and the Feds are guaranteed to cry "HACKER!!", and get a lot of sheeple to back them on the h-word alone. Yelling and flames don't just do nothing, they're actually COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE.... > Regarding 3), we certainly need an aggressive campaign to "get > out the vote". We will need a couple dozen or more core > people to circulate the petition to relevant online forums/ > lists/boards/newsgroups etc., and to solicit others to pass > it on to their friends and so on. There are probably other > ways to promote it as well (geez, if we can get Matt Drudge > to report on this petition, we'd get several hundred thousand > signatures from that alone!) Wired. Slashdot. ZDNet. We also need to get ACLU onboard. The Libertarian Party is a natural here, as is CDT and EPIC. And some of the more active political sites. I've been pondering all day as to how I want to broach the topic on FreeRepublic. . . > Finally, we need to act and get this out within hours, not > days, since we have momentum at the moment, and much interest, > but this is fleeting, and we must strike while the iron is > hot -- if anything, the petition will keep the momentum going > as I observed with the CDA. Do we need another "turn the web black" day ?? The obvious day for that is next Tuesday, followed by that IT Sick-out I've heard mentioned.... From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 11:49:12 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <87g0bs7smr.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <87puaw69g7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "DB" == Derek Balling writes: DB> Again, you're preaching to the choir. _I_ understand the DB> correlation between fair-use on books and fair-use on e-books, DB> but the media has biased the "masses" against "hackers" DB> through years of bad press. I think my point was that one could formulate easy-to-understand and true statements about the Sklyarov case for mass consumption. I'm not trying to explain the case to the people on this list. DB> As I write the paragraphs below, I want to be clear that I DB> *don't* believe these things I'm saying, but that it is "the DB> response" you'll get if you make these arguments to the DB> uneducated masses. Well, it seems to me that we need to make our points louder then, eh? When it boils down to spin, we have to spin things our way as best we can. Everyone can plant fnords, after all. DB> Seriously, don't get me wrong, I'm ALL FOR what you're saying, DB> but I think you miss that the average person is a sheep, who DB> accepts as undiluted truth what is spoon-fed to them via the DB> media. Well, first of all, I'm going to formally disagree with the elitist implication that average people are stupid. I think you're wrong here, but I don't think there's much point in arguing that. But second of all, America is a willing audience for our message. The message is: fair. The message is: US out of my computer. The message is: my home, my castle. These are not difficult messages to convince the US public of. If the story on CNN ("FBI Arrests Russian Hacker") is heavily slanted, let's get the story "Broad-based Rights Coalition Demands Fair Use Rights" up there instead. We can get the story "Americans Think DMCA Goes Too Far" up there. It's not really that hard. The only way to lose is to capitulate before we start. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From andrea at gravitt.org Thu Jul 19 11:53:04 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattle Protest Message-ID: <00ee01c11084$20db8770$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> There are no offices here in Atlanta that I know of, and I am far away from the action. Lacking a readily available target, I'm not sure what focus a local protest might have. I thought about coming out for something (really -- I have friends in SF and have been trying to arrange a visit) but getting a day off is a problem. So instead I sent EFF some more money, approximately the amount I would spend on a weekend trip out there, and coincidentally the exact amount of my "Bread and Circuses" Bush/Cheney tax refund. I expect the check will show up about the same time as my Amex statement. I thought it fitting. Andrea From salgak at speakeasy.net Thu Jul 19 11:53:00 2001 From: salgak at speakeasy.net (Keith A. Glass) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Online Vote Message-ID: <200107191853.LAA27417@webmail.speakeasy.net> I've alerted Vote.com on this, with pointers to the Cryptome and PlanetEBook pages on Dmitri, with any luck, they'll put up a nationwide vote page on it... From jono at microshaft.org Thu Jul 19 12:02:03 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattle Protest In-Reply-To: ; from jeme@brelin.net on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 11:35:15AM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010719120203.B58337@networkcommand.com> No matter where you are you can participate in an IT Workers against the DMCA sickout. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/adhoc_it_union Many IT workers are so critical to day to day business functions we are on call 24/7. That much dependence means we should have at least some influence...;) Come sign up. You don't have to commit to the sick day, just show your support. The arrest needs a strong reaction, the law must be reviewed. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/adhoc_it_union On 19-Jul-2001, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Bill Scannell wrote: > > I'll be in Seattle on Monday. Is there anyone interested in picketing the > > Seattle (Freemont) Adobe office? > > I live in Portland and, while I'd like to drum something up here, we could > do the federal building, but have no Adobe offices. > > I'm torn on two counts: > 1) I'd like to do something in my own city and > 2) I think Adobe is just protecting itself using the existing law and it > is the law that needs revision (Title 17 en toto, not just Sec. 1201). > > But if you organize something, I'll come up Monday morning if I can't get > much going here. > > Then again, I just MAY fly down to San Jose for their thing Monday... if I > do that, I'll fly out tomorrow afternoon. > > J. > -- > ----------------- > Jeme A Brelin > jeme@brelin.net > ----------------- > [cc] counter-copyright > http://www.openlaw.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010719/d49eb6b3/attachment.pgp From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 12:04:10 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <87puaw69g7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: On 19 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > If the story on CNN ("FBI Arrests Russian Hacker") is heavily slanted, > let's get the story "Broad-based Rights Coalition Demands Fair Use > Rights" up there instead. We can get the story "Americans Think DMCA > Goes Too Far" up there. > > It's not really that hard. The only way to lose is to capitulate > before we start. Are you new to anti-corporate activism? CNN is a MEDIA COMPANY. In fact, CNN is AOL/Time-Warner. They, along with Disney, Bertelsmann, Viacomm, et al. are the ones that WROTE the DMCA! The media companies WANT the DMCA. Their interest in fairness, an informed public, etc. ALL take a back seat to their profit interest... which is best served by supporting the DMCA. When profits are the only thing that matter (or, as the Libertarians like to put it, the first priority [so, duh, when do you consider the second? when profits are the same either way... i.e. never]), freedom, society, community, and culture all go out the window. SOME Americans think the DMCA goes too far... Americans, in general, have maybe heard the name and that's about it. It's not that their stupid or sheep or any other elitist tripe. It's that they CANNOT be informed about information issues because the media companies are a vested interest (and, obviously, the only source of information... after all, they ARE the media). I suggest y'all pick up a copy of Rich Media, Poor Democracy. While I don't agree with McChesney 100%, he makes some points very clearly. In privatizing all public life, we've eliminated the public sphere and turned everything into the market sphere. The market is not the only legitimate means of human interaction and we need to start encouraging other forms and stop using market metaphors for everything. I don't have rights "as a consumer"... I have a rights as an individual, a human being, and a citizen. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From watha at monitortan.com Thu Jul 19 13:05:15 2001 From: watha at monitortan.com (Hiawatha Bray) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Journalist seeks help Message-ID: I'm writing about this curious event, and I'd like to quote some members of this list, to illustrate the public's reaction to the case. If you're willing to provide your name, age, occupation and the town where you live, please write me or give me a call. Thanks. Hiawatha Bray Technology Reporter Boston Globe P.O. Box 2378 135 Morrissey Blvd. Boston, MA 02107 USA 617-929-3119 voice 617-929-3183 fax bray@globe.com watha@monitortan.com From ash at toocan.com Thu Jul 19 12:17:09 2001 From: ash at toocan.com (ash) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Duty Judge - San Jose Message-ID: the duty judge for the month of july is: Judge Ware -- ashten remwa****************ash@toocan.com |.|.....(_)..|.\..|.|..|.|..|.|..\.\..././ |.|.....|.|..|..\.|.|..|.|..|.|...\.\././ |.|.....|.|..|...\|.|..|.|..|.|..../._.\ |.|___..|.|..|.|\...|..|.|__|.|..././.\.\ |_____).|_| .|_|.\__|..|______|../_/...\_\ http://www.toocan.com/~ash From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 12:20:46 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattle Protest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87lmlk67zl.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JAB" == Jeme A Brelin writes: JAB> 2) I think Adobe is just protecting itself using the existing JAB> law and it is the law that needs revision Just to counterpoint, here: Adobe has a weak technology which they advertised as capable of solving a problem some computer scientists say is theoretically insoluble. When someone showed that, in fact, this was not the case, Adobe's clients started backing off. What did Adobe do then? Did Adobe fess up to the truth? Did they try and improve their technology? Did they rethink the problem and try to attack it another way? No, they did not. They had the person who told the truth put in jail. They used a technicality in an unjust law to file a complaint that led to his arrest. Some people would say that that's just business. Well, sure, that's some kind of business. Ugly, immoral business. It's a shame on Adobe that they resorted to these tactics. No one should have to go to jail to bolster Adobe's sagging profits. No one should have to go to jail because Adobe's eBook software is a catastrophe. No one should go to jail because Adobe can't keep its impossible promises to its customers. It's wrong. The world should know that it's wrong. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From pablos at kadrevis.com Thu Jul 19 12:22:17 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsflash! Sklyarov Denied Access To Russian Consul In-Reply-To: <20010719110142.F889@cluebot.com> References: <87y9plnzc6.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.u <20010719011118.F8506@zork.net> <1045334.995505824@[0.0.0.0]> <20010719110142.F889@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <63476.995545337@[10.0.1.220]> --On Thursday, July 19, 2001 11:01 AM -0400 Declan McCullagh wrote: > On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 01:23:45AM -0700, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: >> Having talked to Alexander (Elcomsoft Executive in San Francisco) only >> an hour ago: >> >> 1 Nobody has talked to Dmitry since his arrest. >> 2 Nobody knows where he is being held. >> 3 Nobody knows where he'll turn up next. >> >> Where "Nobody" is any of us and/or Dmitry's colleagues, not the feds. > > It's been publicly reported that he is being held in Vegas and will > turn up next in the Bay Area, probably San Jose. If nobody knows that, > it's because they're not reading hte papers. Declan, I know exactly what is in "hte papers." What we didn't know at the time I posted is where in Vegas and/or California he was being held, nor where he would be delivered. San Jose is only one of several assumptions that has been reported. pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 19 12:25:41 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From Vladimir In-Reply-To: <13359901023.20010719222354@elcomsoft.com>; from travel@elcomsoft.com on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 10:23:54PM +0400 References: <2651825671.20010719200918@elcomsoft.com> <01a901c11072$670b1420$0100a8c0@sharhan> <13359901023.20010719222354@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: <20010719122541.S8506@zork.net> Vladimir Katalov writes: > IVV> As for now, have Dmitry some advocate > IVV> or layer in States? > > Yes -- from EFF. We should note that it is not proper to say this until he has actually accepted the offer. In the U.S., lawyers are not allowed to represent clients or speak on behalf of them until the clients have said "I agree that you may represent me" or something similar. Also, lawyers are usually not allowed to contact potential clients to ask to represent them! However, there are some exceptions, including when a lawyer wants to represent someone as a volunteer ("pro bono"). This is what the lawyers at EFF would like to do, so they are allowed to try to contact Sklyarov _if the people in Las Vegas who are detaining him allow it_. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From bill at scannell.org Thu Jul 19 12:28:15 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Calling All Adobe Employees In-Reply-To: <200107191841.LAA23330@webmail.speakeasy.net> Message-ID: Hi, Thanks for reading this list. You're either a PR flack paid to read this or, more likely, one of the many Adobe employees disgusted with the way your company has twisted a white hat security professional into a not-yet-convicted felon. I need your help. I'm making up a number of stickers and small, easily concealed fliers that I'd like distributed inside your company. I don't want you to jeopardise your job, I just want you to help the cause out from the inside. Maybe if senior management knows how you feel about this on the ground, then they will do the right thing and drop the complaint against Sklyarov. Please reply to me directly. Confidentiality is assured. Thanks, Bill From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 19 12:29:09 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] how can we help ? In-Reply-To: <3B555003.C6C28C07@celorio.com>; from chema@celorio.com on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 03:59:47AM -0500 References: <3B555003.C6C28C07@celorio.com> Message-ID: <20010719122909.B26079@zork.net> Begin Chema Celorio quotation: > I tried searching the archives but they seem to not be working. http://zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/2001-July/thread.html There's no search engine on zork, but I could install ht:dig if people feel the need. All the same, the archives seem to be working. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From dave-s at cyclopsmedia.com Thu Jul 19 12:29:22 2001 From: dave-s at cyclopsmedia.com (dave-s@cyclopsmedia.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] I REPRESENT the most "injured" party Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/octet-stream Size: 14425 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010719/e218c896/attachment.obj From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 19 12:35:41 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsflash! Sklyarov Denied Access To Russian Consul In-Reply-To: <63476.995545337@[10.0.1.220]>; from pablos@kadrevis.com on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 12:22:17PM -0700 References: <87y9plnzc6.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.u <20010719011118.F8506@zork.net> <1045334.995505824@[0.0.0.0]> <20010719110142.F889@cluebot.com> <63476.995545337@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <20010719123541.V8506@zork.net> Pablos Kadrevis writes: > Declan, I know exactly what is in "hte papers." What we didn't know at the > time I posted is where in Vegas and/or California he was being held, nor > where he would be delivered. San Jose is only one of several assumptions > that has been reported. Robyn is going to find out today -- I hope -- whether it's certain that people who are complained of in one venue get transferred to the prison nearby that venue. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 19 12:39:13 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <20010719092405.E19001@sherohman.org>; from esper@sherohman.org on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 09:24:05AM -0500 References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> <20010719092405.E19001@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20010719123913.C26079@zork.net> Begin Dave Sherohman quotation: > You're right - the press is a lot more interested in the odd or the > sensational rather than Yet Another Protest. Another story along those lines: http://crackmonkey.org/pipermail/crackmonkey/2001q3/021895.html -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 19 12:40:05 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Stickers/Slogan In-Reply-To: <200107191606.JAA06798@shell3.ba.best.com>; from drumz@best.com on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 09:06:58AM -0700 References: <200107191606.JAA06798@shell3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <20010719124005.D26079@zork.net> Begin Ethan Straffin quotation: > Noooo! Memes I can see. The last thing we need is more mimes. You mean those guys in the black clothes, white pancake makeup, and Sisters of Mercy t-shirts? -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From jono at microshaft.org Thu Jul 19 12:47:33 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Publishing Assocations Message-ID: <20010719124733.F58337@networkcommand.com> Hello: Has anyone contacted publishing associations and authors' guilds to find out their point of view on this? I suggest we provide some documents that explain what is going to and provide them to these groups. We need them on our side. They are the Adobe customers and we need to make sure the disinformation doesn't make them ignore the real issues. Adobe is hawking weak protection for their materials. Also, we need some well written documents explaining the DMCA issues to people who do not know technology, etc. Anyone got pointers? Thanks, Jon ============================== IT Workers Unite! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/adhoc_it_union ============================== -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010719/e1c7fcee/attachment.pgp From watha at monitortan.com Thu Jul 19 13:49:40 2001 From: watha at monitortan.com (Hiawatha Bray) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Buried alive! Message-ID: Thanks for all the replies. I never realized what a talkative bunch you all are. I won't be able to use all your responses, but I'll be in touch with a couple of you individually. Thanks again! Hiawatha Bray Technology Reporter Boston Globe P.O. Box 2378 135 Morrissey Blvd. Boston, MA 02107 USA 617-929-3119 voice 617-929-3183 fax bray@globe.com watha@monitortan.com From declan at well.com Thu Jul 19 07:42:08 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: ; from dredd@megacity.org on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 05:01:03PM -0700 References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010719104208.C889@cluebot.com> Pardon me for being cynical (or, perhaps, informed about what works in DC), but let me humbly suggest it is not entirely clear that this anti-DMCA protest changed many minds on Capitol Hill: http://www.mccullagh.org/image/7/dmca-protesters-1.html -Declan On Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 05:01:03PM -0700, Derek Balling wrote: > At 4:50 PM -0700 7/18/01, Klepht wrote: > > >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt writes: > > > > NM> What would we demonstrate? > > > > NM> After the DeCSS protest outside of the Sony Metreon in > > NM> San Francisco, I have become soured on the notion of protests. > > > >So, don't come. But please stop trying to convince everyone that > >protests don't work. Try telling the NAACP, Act Up!, the UFW and > >countless other organizations that street protests don't work. > > > > Street protests work, where the "masses" can understand easily and > relate to the issue involved. I don't have to "Be Gay" to understand > gay rights activists. I don't have to be black to understand that > "Yeah, we oppressed people in the past, and some people still do it > today". > > DMCA violations are something the people "don't understand", by and > large. Around HERE, in our cloistered little high tech environs, > there may be a larger-than-normal understanding, but the masses don't > understand it all. > > They DON'T work, as evidenced by WTO protests, if the masses DON'T > understand. Was there any huge uproar from the masses after the WTO > protests? Did the people rise up and scream "never again!" .. > > No. They bitched about the traffic problems it caused. > > D > > -- > +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ > | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | > | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | > | | driven before you, and to hear the | > | | lamentation of their women!" | > +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From salgak at speakeasy.net Thu Jul 19 07:13:00 2001 From: salgak at speakeasy.net (Keith A. Glass) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Summary to date: Action points ?? Message-ID: <200107191413.HAA03225@webmail.speakeasy.net> 1. Dmitri is in jail, location unknown but likely either Las Vegas or in the Bay Area. 2. He's being held incommunicado, even with the Consulate of the Russian Federation, in violation of the Vienna Convention (21 U.S.T. at 77). 3. Adobe Corporation is presumed to have started this whole mess. 4. US media coverage, outside of the Net/Geek/Hacker press has pretty much ignored this. If this is a correct summary, we need an action plan. Suggestions: 1. NYC people: somebody needs to call the UN Mission of the Russian Federation/ Russian Consulate. I've seen comments for the SF Consulate and the Embassy here in DC, but getting UN involvement. And NYC action gets national press coverage a lot faster. 2. We need press in overseas capitals as well. With Bush in London today, we need the UK press to hit this hard tomorrow. If it's on the front page of the Times of London and the Observer, it will have impact. 3. The G-8 meeting this weekend: have no details, but obviously pinging the State Departments/equivalent of the G-8 members may have an effect. CAVEAT: Flames do no good here. Quiet, reasoned, POLITE logic is the path to follow here, otherwise, we'll be lumped in with the anarchists and other protesters setting up for the G-8 this weekend, AND WILL BE IGNORED. IF we want Dmitri freed, we have to work INSIDE the system. . . Just my 2 cents' worth. . . . From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 15:44:17 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] flying out to san jose? In-Reply-To: <877kx44lbu.fsf@feynman.hurstdog.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719154305.03d61c78@pop3.norton.antivirus> Please organize a protest in Denver. If you are willing to act as a contact person, others will join you. If so, please give us the contact info to use so people may contact you. Free Sklyarov, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 04:15 PM 7/19/2001 -0600, vsync wrote: >I'm in Denver right now, and it would cost me $362 to fly out there >for the protest march. I'm seriously considering it. Anyone know of >options for getting from SFO->San Jose? I don't particularly want to >take CalTrain... > >If I don't do this, I'd be very interested in attending a Denver area >protest, and so would my girlfriend, and possibly friends and >relatives. Let me know if anything gets organized. > >-- >vsync >http://quadium.net/ >(cons (cons (car (cons 'c 'r)) (cdr (cons 'a 'o))) ; Orjner > (cons (cons (car (cons 'n 'c)) (cdr (cons nil 's))) nil)) > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 15:46:30 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: <871ync4kuh.fsf@feynman.hurstdog.org> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719154553.03d67370@pop3.norton.antivirus> Sonja, Are you willing to act as the contact for the Denver protest? If so, please provide your full contact info (full name, telephone, and email address) Thanks, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 04:25 PM 7/19/2001 -0600, vsync wrote: >"Sonja V. Tideman" writes: > > > It looks like we will have a protest in Denver on Monday. The details > > have not been ironed out (we are meeting at 7:30 tomorrow night at the > > Boulder Bookstore's Cafe for anyone in the Denver area who would like to > >Where is this located? > >-- >vsync >http://quadium.net/ >(cons (cons (car (cons 'c 'r)) (cdr (cons 'a 'o))) ; Orjner > (cons (cons (car (cons 'n 'c)) (cdr (cons nil 's))) nil)) > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to Thu Jul 19 15:40:55 2001 From: noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to (robyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] flying out to san jose? In-Reply-To: <877kx44lbu.fsf@feynman.hurstdog.org> Message-ID: Priceline Denver -> San Jose directly? On 19 Jul 2001, vsync wrote: > I'm in Denver right now, and it would cost me $362 to fly out there > for the protest march. I'm seriously considering it. Anyone know of > options for getting from SFO->San Jose? I don't particularly want to > take CalTrain... > > If I don't do this, I'd be very interested in attending a Denver area > protest, and so would my girlfriend, and possibly friends and > relatives. Let me know if anything gets organized. > > From sonjat at cs.unm.edu Thu Jul 19 15:41:31 2001 From: sonjat at cs.unm.edu (Sonja V. Tideman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: <871ync4kuh.fsf@feynman.hurstdog.org> Message-ID: It is the bookend cafe, located at 1115 pearl (near 11 st) Sonja On 19 Jul 2001, vsync wrote: > "Sonja V. Tideman" writes: > > > It looks like we will have a protest in Denver on Monday. The details > > have not been ironed out (we are meeting at 7:30 tomorrow night at the > > Boulder Bookstore's Cafe for anyone in the Denver area who would like to > > Where is this located? > > -- > vsync > http://quadium.net/ > (cons (cons (car (cons 'c 'r)) (cdr (cons 'a 'o))) ; Orjner > (cons (cons (car (cons 'n 'c)) (cdr (cons nil 's))) nil)) > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From pedro at tastytronic.net Thu Jul 19 15:44:40 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Area Malcontents? Message-ID: <20010719174440.E4588@tastytronic.net> Anyone onlist that is a Chicago-area resident and interested in doing some kind of protest and/or demonstration? I live here, but frankly, I don't even know where the best location would be for maximum visibility or media-draw. Any takers/ideas? pedro -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter A. Peterson II, CEO Users of Free Operating Systems, Chicago USA http://ufo.chicago.il.us -- Free Software Rules -- Proprietary Drools! From vsync at quadium.net Thu Jul 19 15:25:58 2001 From: vsync at quadium.net (vsync) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <871ync4kuh.fsf@feynman.hurstdog.org> "Sonja V. Tideman" writes: > It looks like we will have a protest in Denver on Monday. The details > have not been ironed out (we are meeting at 7:30 tomorrow night at the > Boulder Bookstore's Cafe for anyone in the Denver area who would like to Where is this located? -- vsync http://quadium.net/ (cons (cons (car (cons 'c 'r)) (cdr (cons 'a 'o))) ; Orjner (cons (cons (car (cons 'n 'c)) (cdr (cons nil 's))) nil)) From jon at callas.org Thu Jul 19 15:08:53 2001 From: jon at callas.org (Jon Callas) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Focus. Message-ID: I've been reading this (while trying to do a security review of something in another window), so I apologize if this is too terse. There are several issues there: (1) The DMCA. (2) What Sklyarov allegedly did. (3) The way the FBI handled it. If you want to get Sklyarov out of jail, you need to focus on (2) and (3), and forget about (1) for the time being. (1) has been around for years, and it will be around for years more. It's going to be a long fight, folks, and the issues are complex. The place to focus, in my opinion, is (3). Sklyarov may have done something that is illegal in the US. But he did it in his native land, where it is not illegal. His company even cooperated with the complaint against them, by removing the offending program from their site. That shows that they're not being mere pirates. Next, the FBI acted heavy-handedly. They *could* have denied him entry into the US. They *could* have just put him on a plane and said, "Don't come back." Instead, they prepared an arrest in anticipation for him to come to the US to present a paper. *That* is scary for all people -- if countries start arresting travelers for things they did in their native land, we're all in trouble. This is a very bad precedent. On a larger scale, this sort of thing weakens our ability to chastise places on human rights issues. There have been times when Americans visiting abroad have been arrested, and the US government usually considers these to be human rights violations. It makes it hard for us to get our own people out of other prisons if we run around jailing grad students for not being up on US law. I also mention here that if you are one of the people who like the DMCA, you should still be upset. One reason is that these procedural things take away from the merits of the case. Making an example out of a foreigner who happened to travel to the US only plays into the hands who oppose the DMCA. (And as one of those, I have to say thanks, guys!) Another is that this will probably blunt further implementation of the WIPO treaty in other countries; you really wanted your test case to be a real criminal, not an academic. Those of us who have been opposing WIPO brought up things like this, and we were assured that legitimate researchers won't be harassed. Well, guys, the first two people bothered were a full professor at Princeton, and a grad student from Moscow. And you should also be worried about the issue below. Lastly, it appears that the government has not followed accepted international procedures. We don't really know, since we're sitting here in an information vacuum. The much bigger issue is whether the DMCA is so important to the US that we're going to make an international incident over it. Stressing *these* things may get Sklyarov out of jail, and you may even get the pro-DMCA forces to help. Jon From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 15:54:38 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Area Malcontents? In-Reply-To: <20010719174440.E4588@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719155411.02009420@pop3.norton.antivirus> Choose a federal courthouse or Adobe office. If you are willing to be the contact for a protest there, please let us know right away! Thanks, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 05:44 PM 7/19/2001 -0500, Peter A. Peterson II wrote: >Anyone onlist that is a Chicago-area resident and interested in doing >some kind of protest and/or demonstration? I live here, but frankly, I >don't even know where the best location would be for maximum visibility >or media-draw. Any takers/ideas? > >pedro > >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Peter A. Peterson II, CEO Users of Free Operating Systems, Chicago USA >http://ufo.chicago.il.us -- Free Software Rules -- Proprietary Drools! > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From mh_sklyarov at cryptonomicon.net Thu Jul 19 15:45:25 2001 From: mh_sklyarov at cryptonomicon.net (Matthew S. Hamrick) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Cryptonomicon.Net Resources RE: The Sklyarov Controversy Message-ID: Hi All, Just wanted to share these links with you... Ongoing discussion forum about the Dmitri Sklyarov case: http://www.cryptonomicon.net/article.php?sid=38&mode=thread&order=0 Link Farm for links related to the case: http://www.cryptonomicon.net/links.php?op=viewslink&sid=55 Downloads Section for AEBPR and powerpoint presentation, etc.: http://www.cryptonomicon.net/download.php?op=viewdownload&cid=4 Hope they're interesting... Also, if someone with better knowledge of the planned protest could post something about that to the discussion section, I would be much appreciated. There seems to be a little confusion about what's going on with this ... -Matt Hamrick From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 19 15:34:44 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda In-Reply-To: ; from xyz@kalifornia.com on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 08:36:12AM -0700 References: <00b101c11064$2691fc00$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: <20010719153444.A17752@zork.net> Begin <> quotation: > Personally I think the T-Shirts are nice, the use of the Russian > symbology would turn many away. Please, it is Soviet symbology, not Russian. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 15:46:13 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any way for long-distance protest support? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010719163838.00e46d80@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Paul Gowder wrote: > I'm sitting out here in Eastern Oregon (though I'll probably be in > Portland on Monday) -- for me, and those like me, a long distance away > from any A-doh-be offices, is there any support the protestors need > that can be provided long-distance? I'm working on putting together a group to meet in Terry Shrunck Plaza (a public space) outside the federal building downtown Portland at 11am. Let me know if you're interested and what you can do to help (signs, flyers, etc.) I'm hoping to recruit much of downtown's IT staff... hopefully to at least get their lunch hour attention. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 15:32:00 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] flying out to san jose? In-Reply-To: <877kx44lbu.fsf@feynman.hurstdog.org> Message-ID: On 19 Jul 2001, vsync wrote: > I'm in Denver right now, and it would cost me $362 to fly out there > for the protest march. I'm seriously considering it. Anyone know of > options for getting from SFO->San Jose? I don't particularly want to > take CalTrain... In my case, from Portland, it's much cheaper to fly to SJC directly. I was considering flying in myself, but someone on this very list made me see the light. If you fly in, you will be one in a crowd that may have some psychological impact and MIGHT improve the chances of news coverage of the situation. If you spend the same money on a check to the EFF, you will be providing for direct, effective, legal challenge to these abominable laws. I'll be sending the EFF my airfare to San Jose. My personal satisfaction is worth less than what they can do. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From maxomai at aracnet.com Thu Jul 19 15:53:47 2001 From: maxomai at aracnet.com (Michael C. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Some Adobe substitutes Message-ID: <20010719155347.A25314@aracnet.com> Here's a list of sites for some Adobe substitutes: The GIMP: a full-blown graphics editing program released under the General Public License. GIMP graphics tend to have a distinctive look (that I like). http://www.gimp.org/ TeX: Industrial strength publishing software (think math books). Output formats include dvi, pdf(!!) and html. There's a whole mess of web pages on the software available at http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Desktop_Publishing/TeX/ The TeX users group web page can be found at http://www.tug.org/ ... lots of handly links here. xpdf is a PDF reader for the X Windowing System. Experimental versions exist for DOS/Windows. http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/ There's probably more out there...please let us know if you know of more. Mike Smith On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 05:26:12PM -0400, Charles L. Jackson wrote: > Someone asked: > Secondly, does it make sense to include links to open-source > products > that do the same things that Adobe's products do? (e.g., xpdf, > LaTeX, > GIMP, etc.) I know not all of these are necessarily up to Adobe's > level of quality (at least for what graphic design people need), but > it could help put the economic pressure on Adobe wrt home users. > > This is one of the strongest things we can do. I think those links > should be posted and people should be encouraged to post materials using > alternate products. > > The other thing would be to encourage those in the open-source community to > develope better PDF substitutes. > > > Chuck ----- End forwarded message ----- From sonjat at cs.unm.edu Thu Jul 19 15:27:23 2001 From: sonjat at cs.unm.edu (Sonja V. Tideman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [free-sklyarov]Contact Persons for Protests in Each City In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719143021.03e8a7a0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Hello, I am willing to be the contact person for the Denver area protest. Sonja Tideman sonjat@cs.unm.edu On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > Folks, > > We really need to list contact information for > organizers in the other cities where protests > will take place. > > If you are willing to act as a contact person, > please send the contact info you would like > us to use for your protest to this list > (or to me personally). > > The only way for people in each city to group > together to act is to have a focal person for > each location. Being a contact person does > not mean that you have to do everything to > organize the protest. > > Once you let people know you are the contact > person, others will contact you and you can > make the protest happen! EFF can get the > information out to a large number of activists > interested in this issue rapidly and other > activists on this list can also pass on the > word. > > Materials such as sample leaflets, media > releases, etc, will be available on the > EFF site and other locations to be announced > here soon. > > Free Sklyarov, > > Will Doherty > Online Activist / Media Relations > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > Web http://www.eff.org > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > ------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 15:14:44 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [adhoc_it_union] ISSUES to address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Jon Callas wrote: > > The main question I have about a sick out is who is it going to hurt? > My employer is no friend of the DMCA. I've been working against the > DMCA for over three years now. Most people probably work for some > company that neither knows about nor cares about the DMCA. A sick out > is just going to make them say, "Huh?" Punching Peter doesn't hurt > Paul. > > If you do work for a company that's pro-DMCA, it might have an effect, > but what sort of effect? Are you just making more work for your > colleagues that don't care? That's not the way to convince them that > it's a good cause, it's a good way to irritate them. If your employer > is really evil, they'll merely deduct a sick day from you, and go on > their merry way. If we were just trying to halt a company or make some particular goal difficult to achieve, we would target it in such a way. But shutting down Adobe for a day wouldn't make a difference to anyone at all. Adobe could announce a "Founder's Day" and take the day off and nobody but the employees would care. If Adobe's IT department took the day off work, the other employees at Adobe might ask "Hey, what's going on?" and they would find out and be more informed. If the country's IT staff took the day off, every employee at every company would ask "Why are they doing that?" and the answer to that question would inform MILLIONS of people about this issue. Today we are plagued by a public, politicians, and legal system that is woefully ignorant of issues facing the digital world. The solutions being proposed by the politicians (on behalf of the wealthiest stake-holders) are inadequate at best and extremely damaging at worst. We are pounded by propaganda daily that shows us a world where EVERYTHING is pay-per-view (anyone see AI? There's a scene in which Jude Law says "In this day and age, nothing costs more than information." I sat up and said "WHAT THE FUCK? When communication is good, when technology flourishes, information is spread MORE EASILY and MORE CHEAPLY. This is obvious crap that the movie studios would LOVE to have us believe." I was simply shushed.) and everything is LICENSED and no information is yours. If we want to change that attitude, we need to let people know that we understand these issues better than they do and they'd better listen to our side. We have that power today. We have that power as a group. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From vsync at quadium.net Thu Jul 19 15:15:33 2001 From: vsync at quadium.net (vsync) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] flying out to san jose? Message-ID: <877kx44lbu.fsf@feynman.hurstdog.org> I'm in Denver right now, and it would cost me $362 to fly out there for the protest march. I'm seriously considering it. Anyone know of options for getting from SFO->San Jose? I don't particularly want to take CalTrain... If I don't do this, I'd be very interested in attending a Denver area protest, and so would my girlfriend, and possibly friends and relatives. Let me know if anything gets organized. -- vsync http://quadium.net/ (cons (cons (car (cons 'c 'r)) (cdr (cons 'a 'o))) ; Orjner (cons (cons (car (cons 'n 'c)) (cdr (cons nil 's))) nil)) From paul at paultopia.net Thu Jul 19 15:40:12 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any way for long-distance protest support? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010719163838.00e46d80@mail.paultopia.net> Hi, I'm sitting out here in Eastern Oregon (though I'll probably be in Portland on Monday) -- for me, and those like me, a long distance away from any A-doh-be offices, is there any support the protestors need that can be provided long-distance? -Paul Gowder -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From mdejong at cygnus.com Thu Jul 19 15:46:20 2001 From: mdejong at cygnus.com (Mo DeJong) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <20010719134358.F15006@zgp.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Don Marti wrote: > begin Mo DeJong quotation of Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 01:15:30PM -0700: > > > Some posters mentioned the need for a good "hook" > > that might get the media to cover a protest at > > Adobe. How about an eBook burning? > > Book burning == bad in most people's minds. This is about the > opposite of book burning -- book reading. Book burning is a powerful image. One could claim that turning a book into an eBook is the same as burning it. Either way people could be losing access to the ideas in the book. > And the second anyone starts a fire, message diluted, hazard created, > they have a reason to break it up, bad things all the way around. > > Please don't set anything on fire. And in all other things, please > be polite and on your best behavior. Don, you are being too literal. Someone mentioned a projector before. Why not incorporate that into a little program that displayed a burning eBook? It is just an idea, I am not saying it is a good one. My point was that when staging an event that you would like the mass media to cover, you have to simplify the message. Few people will understand a protest over encryption and the DMCA. On the other hand, "eBooks burned outside Adobe Headquarters" might interest a few readers. cheers Mo From sonjat at cs.unm.edu Thu Jul 19 16:01:51 2001 From: sonjat at cs.unm.edu (Sonja V. Tideman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719154553.03d67370@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Sure. Here is the information Sonja Tideman 970-419-8866 sonjat@cs.unm.edu On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > Sonja, > > Are you willing to act as the contact for the Denver > protest? If so, please provide your full contact > info (full name, telephone, and email address) > > Thanks, > > Will Doherty > Online Activist / Media Relations > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > Web http://www.eff.org > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > ------- > > At 04:25 PM 7/19/2001 -0600, vsync wrote: > >"Sonja V. Tideman" writes: > > > > > It looks like we will have a protest in Denver on Monday. The details > > > have not been ironed out (we are meeting at 7:30 tomorrow night at the > > > Boulder Bookstore's Cafe for anyone in the Denver area who would like to > > > >Where is this located? > > > >-- > >vsync > >http://quadium.net/ > >(cons (cons (car (cons 'c 'r)) (cdr (cons 'a 'o))) ; Orjner > > (cons (cons (car (cons 'n 'c)) (cdr (cons nil 's))) nil)) > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From rabbi at quickie.net Thu Jul 19 16:02:03 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Open eBook Forum In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719154305.03d61c78@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: http://www.openebook.org/feedback.htm Registering displeasure with the Board of the Open EBook Forum may be worth doing. (Sending mail to Tom Diaz is obviously worthless, but the others listed there should be alerted about current events...) Directors: Douglas Armati armati@intertrust.com Intertrust Tom Diaz tdiaz@adobe.com Adobe George Kerscher kerscher@montana.com Daisy Consotium Amanda Kimmel akimmel@randomhouse.com Random House Ed Mccoyd EMccoyd@publishers.org Ascn. American Publishers David Ornstein davidorn@microsoft.com Microsoft Steve Potash spotash@overdrive.com Overdrive General comments: info@openebook.org From maxomai at aracnet.com Thu Jul 19 16:05:15 2001 From: maxomai at aracnet.com (Michael C. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Area Malcontents? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719155411.02009420@pop3.norton.antivirus>; from wild@eff.org on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 03:54:38PM -0700 References: <20010719174440.E4588@tastytronic.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20010719155411.02009420@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20010719160515.C25314@aracnet.com> On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 03:54:38PM -0700, Will Doherty wrote: > Choose a federal courthouse or Adobe office. > > If you are willing to be the contact for a protest there, > please let us know right away! The Federal Plaza, located on the corner of Adams and Clark (I think, it's been a while) in Downtown Chicago, would be your best bet for a Chicago protest. (The most notable feature of this area is a huge statue that looks like a pink flamingo sticking its head in the ground.) Be sure to send out a notice on chicago.indymedia.org while you're at it. (I wonder if the ISO is going to show up with newspapers? :)) Mike Smith > Thanks, > > Will Doherty > Online Activist / Media Relations > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > Web http://www.eff.org > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age From rabbi at quickie.net Thu Jul 19 16:14:18 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A different angle In-Reply-To: <20010719112115.A14650@ofhell.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, bat out of hell wrote: > Well this might sound silly, but this is the angle I'm going to try. [snip] This is an excellent angle to try. Hit on all fronts. You may also want to write to the organizations and companies listed here: http://www.adobe.com/epaper/ebooks/community.html (Others who would like to contribute, but aren't sure how, may wish to join Sally in writing polite explainations of why they object to Adobe's actions, and mailing the publishers and distributors of ebooks.) Someone may wish to post the contact information from that page on this list, in case Adobe pulls that page down, Free Dmitry! Len From saint_sam at yahoo.com Thu Jul 19 16:16:00 2001 From: saint_sam at yahoo.com (Sam Gray) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Portland FBI, tax returns, and sick-out Message-ID: <20010719231601.30598.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> I've only seen messages from one other Portlander on this list. Given that there's not an Adobe building here, it seems that a demonstration would be a bit less mediagenic -- but what about in front of the offices of the FBI ? Maybe it's begging for a surveillance file, but from the media coverage they've already been getting, there's probably a good chance they'd lose it anyway. ;> If there's anyone else on this list from Portland interested in a demo, perhaps we could identify ourselves off-list? By the way, nobody has yet mentioned George II's $300 (or $600) tax refunds. This is going to be windfall cash for many of you -- please consider donating it to the EFF. I know I intend to put mine to good political use. As for the idea of a sick-out, I'm a bit skeptical -- do any of the Americans on this list remember the Gas-Outs that were supposed to bring our gas prices down? Despite that bit of cynicism, I do think it's a good idea, and if I were working for a company with more than two employees, myself included, I'd definitely be pushing my cow-orkers to come along. -Sam ===== "They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's some kind of federal program." - George W. Bush, St. Charles, Mo., Nov. 2, 2000 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From paul at paultopia.net Thu Jul 19 16:16:11 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] logistical stuff. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010719170524.00c624b0@mail.paultopia.net> A question: If there's going to be a Seattle area protest, who that lives in Portland will be going? I'll be in Portland on Monday anyway (though I absolutely have to, HAVE TO be back in Portland by Monday evening), can help organize a caravan, though I won't have a car there. Alternatively, does anyone want to hit the federal bldg in PDX? Who's the coordinator for Seattle? Has anyone contacted the National Lawyer's Guild for support? Also, is anyone in touch with the anti-globalization/wto/ftaa/imf crowd? Finally, for those who can't get to one of the protest cities, I suggest organizing protests at the federal buildings/fbi offices in major cities, especially DC (and NY if there isn't an adobe office there). Someone should also create a web site listing dates and protest locations, preferably on boycottadobe.com and the EFF site, that way those of us that are stirring up stuff nationwide will have a central protest page to point to. What protests are planned so far? I see San Jose, Denver, and Seattle reflected in the list messages I have. Someone also mentioned Boston, I really strongly think the FBI offices in DC should also be included... Are they all/should they all be at the same time as San Jose (11-1pdt, which would be 12-2mdt, 1-3cdt, and 2-4edt)? -Paul Gowder -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 16:16:47 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda In-Reply-To: <20010719153444.A17752@zork.net> References: <00b101c11064$2691fc00$0100a8c0@sharhan> <20010719153444.A17752@zork.net> Message-ID: <87zoa0a4rk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt writes: >> Personally I think the T-Shirts are nice, the use of the >> Russian symbology would turn many away. NM> Please, it is Soviet symbology, not Russian. ...unfortunately conflated in the mind of the American public. The fact that Sklyarov is Russian confuses the message of this symbol somewhat. It might be useful (although no longer timely) to come up with a symbol of oppression that is not so loaded with Cold War symbolism. For example... uh... a boot? My guess is that the horse is out of the barn on this one, though. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 16:20:01 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands Message-ID: <87vgkoa4m6.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Uh... do we want to present a list of demands to Adobe on Monday? What would those demands be? Also, could someone with some tiny bit of understanding of criminal law tell us if it's even possible for Adobe to do anything at this point to "drop" their complaint? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From rsb at ostel.com Thu Jul 19 16:48:39 2001 From: rsb at ostel.com (Rich Bodo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Howard Morland In-Reply-To: <20010719201617.4593.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: > The current Sklyarov arrest makes it look as if the Government thinks > revealing how to read a locked e-book is more dangerous than revealing > how to make an H-bomb. This is scary. The likelihood of someone using the e-book information is higher. Even a very rich person would have an incredibly hard time making an H-bomb, but if you explain ROT13 to a 6-year old he/she would eventually be able to decode a book, and it would be fun! Therefore, we must supress the knowledge of ROT13. Right? Wrong. The DCMA is being used to supress scientific knowledge on our watch and in our backyard. It's our responsibility to stop it. This is for profit, corporate ordered, government enforced, mandatory book burning. I don't know if anyone has suggested this, yet: Let's have a book burning. -Rich From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 16:27:30 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <87vgkoa4m6.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: On 19 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > Uh... do we want to present a list of demands to Adobe on Monday? > > What would those demands be? > > Also, could someone with some tiny bit of understanding of criminal > law tell us if it's even possible for Adobe to do anything at this > point to "drop" their complaint? I honestly don't think anyone from Adobe will even officially acknowledge you. Some cops might show up and that's about it. Please try and go into this as an awareness campaign and less like you think you're going to have demands met. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 16:30:50 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] logistical stuff. In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010719170524.00c624b0@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Paul Gowder wrote: > If there's going to be a Seattle area protest, who that lives in > Portland will be going? I'll be in Portland on Monday anyway (though > I absolutely have to, HAVE TO be back in Portland by Monday evening), > can help organize a caravan, though I won't have a car there. > Alternatively, does anyone want to hit the federal bldg in PDX? I'm working to organize in Portland. I think we can have a fair turnout. > Has anyone contacted the National Lawyer's Guild for support? No, but I have Alan's number here in my wallet... I'll give him a call. > Also, is anyone in touch with the anti-globalization/wto/ftaa/imf > crowd? I'm closely involved with (or involved with people who are involved with) the Indymedia core group, the Pacific Green Party (though I am not and will not be a member), the CFA, and a certain "bike army". All are committed to social justice. If I can convince them that this is important, they'll come out. (Hell, all I really have to say is that a corporation asked the FBI to jail someone and they did.) > Finally, for those who can't get to one of the protest cities, I > suggest organizing protests at the federal buildings/fbi offices in > major cities, especially DC (and NY if there isn't an adobe office > there). > > Someone should also create a web site listing dates and protest > locations, preferably on boycottadobe.com and the EFF site, that way > those of us that are stirring up stuff nationwide will have a central > protest page to point to. What protests are planned so far? I see > San Jose, Denver, and Seattle reflected in the list messages I have. > Someone also mentioned Boston, I really strongly think the FBI offices > in DC should also be included... Are they all/should they all be at > the same time as San Jose (11-1pdt, which would be 12-2mdt, 1-3cdt, > and 2-4edt)? I'm shooting for 11-13 PDT on Monday. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From bb at bb-zone.com Thu Jul 19 16:30:49 2001 From: bb at bb-zone.com (Bodo Bauer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Heise News Ticker covers case Message-ID: <20010719163049.A1595@bb-zone.com> FYI, the popular German news site www.heise.de has a short article on DMitry's case: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/daa-19.07.01-000 BB -- Bodo Bauer http://www.bb-zone.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010719/0ea84447/attachment.pgp From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 16:38:38 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] logistical stuff. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87hew8a3r5.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> So, do we have a Web page with the info for protests in each city (I count Seattle, Chicago, San Francisco, Denver, Portland, and maybe Moscow?)? Contacts, place, time? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From neale at woozle.org Thu Jul 19 16:40:18 2001 From: neale at woozle.org (Neale Pickett) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] logistical stuff. In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010719170524.00c624b0@mail.paultopia.net> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010719170524.00c624b0@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: Paul Gowder writes: > Who's the coordinator for Seattle? Until someone else steps in (and I do hope that's soon, I'm going to be in Vancouver, WA this weekend!) that's me. Neale Pickett 206-290-7309 From andrea at gravitt.org Thu Jul 19 16:43:39 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Atlanta? Message-ID: Someone has pointed out that there is, in fact, an Adobe office in Atlanta. I have no idea what is actually done there, or anything about it other than the address. Doing something at the same actual time (as opposed to same local time) would put it in the middle of the afternoon for us east-coasters. That might actually be better, given that the office is out in the 'burbs. The next question is, of course, who in Atlanta is interested. There is one other on this list that I know of, and I might get some interest from the se2600 folks. But I am concerned about the ability to stage an effective demonstration even if we could get people out. Based on the address I was given, the offices are almost certainly in a business park. That means private property, and I doubt standing on the side of a suburban highway will be of much help. (Although it is possible we could have a captive audience during rush (3) hour(s).) Andrea ------------------------------------------------------- feorlen at acm dot org From paul at paultopia.net Thu Jul 19 16:43:33 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: list of demands In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010719174014.00e4e8a0@mail.paultopia.net> > >Uh... do we want to present a list of demands to Adobe on Monday? > >What would those demands be? There isn't much they could do, except stop any pressure they are exerting on the FBI >Also, could someone with some tiny bit of understanding of criminal >law tell us if it's even possible for Adobe to do anything at this >point to "drop" their complaint? I know a little (not much!) about criminal law (I'm a Massachusetts lawyer, actually going to be in Portland to take the Oregon bar next week), and I can't think of much. They could stop their pressure, naturally. They could stop handing over evidence, etc. etc. etc. How much does the DOJ want to prosecute him without Adobe's cheering section? The protest is mainly, as I conceptualize it, a way to let future corporations know that calling in the feds will be met with resistance. -Paul -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From paul at paultopia.net Thu Jul 19 16:45:31 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Some Adobe substitutes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010719174442.00e4f450@mail.paultopia.net> Ghostscript and its companion program, gsview, can be used to read (and perhaps to save, not sure) postscript and pdf files on windows and various unix flavors. -Paul -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 16:48:52 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87g0bs7a57.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JAB" == Jeme A Brelin writes: Me> Uh... do we want to present a list of demands to Adobe on Me> Monday? JAB> I honestly don't think anyone from Adobe will even officially JAB> acknowledge you. Some cops might show up and that's about JAB> it. Having a list of demands gives a focus to the demonstration. "This is what we're asking from Adobe. This is why we're here." I think it was Nick who said that a protest with concrete goals cannot succeed. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 16:48:46 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <87vgkoa4m6.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719164648.03ee50d8@pop3.norton.antivirus> According to the criminal attorney who was just in the EFF office-- Adobe can no longer by themselves prevent the case from moving forward. However, if they withdraw the complaint they made to Department of Justice, then DOJ may decide not to move forward with the criminal charges from the government and they could release Sklyarov. That could be kind of embarrassing for them, but it is not entirely out of the question. Free Sklyarov, Will Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 04:20 PM 7/19/2001 -0700, Klepht wrote: >Uh... do we want to present a list of demands to Adobe on Monday? > >What would those demands be? > >Also, could someone with some tiny bit of understanding of criminal >law tell us if it's even possible for Adobe to do anything at this >point to "drop" their complaint? > >~Klepht > >-- >klepht@eleutheria.org >http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From rsb at ostel.com Thu Jul 19 17:22:01 2001 From: rsb at ostel.com (Rich Bodo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Book burning == bad in most people's minds. This is about the > > opposite of book burning -- book reading. TRUE. > Book burning is a powerful image. One could claim that turning > a book into an eBook is the same as burning it. Either way > people could be losing access to the ideas in the book. Also TRUE. Peaceful protestors regularly stage dramatic events that mimic the actions of irresponsible corporations all the time. It's very effective at getting news coverage and putting the actions being protested in the most negative light. It's also a little more ballsy and hardcore and less people are likely to want to do it. In general, very hard to pull off with a positive effect. It could work. Thing is, how do you mimic adobe? Wear adobe T-shirts? I can think of one dramatization along these lines that didn't mimic anyone. I absolutely hated flag-burning, but I have to admit they got a court case out of it and won. The idea had an initial appeal to me, but after consideration it has evaporated. Unless someone can think of a safe and effective way to put a positive spin on it, I have to agree with Don and suggest that people steer clear of book burning. > > Please don't set anything on fire. And in all other things, please > > be polite and on your best behavior. We definitely wouldn't want to step outside the parameters of event organization. That is exactly how to screw up a meaningful protest. > On the other hand, "eBooks burned outside Adobe Headquarters" might > interest a few readers. I think that particular headline would harm the cause. Especially for the majority of people who skim papers. Where these types of protests work as news is on TV with video and commentary. I imagine they also shock the hell out of the people they are mimicing. Maybe a Book Dousing would avoid that particular headline but have enough weird appeal to make it to the headlines all the same. -Rich Rich Bodo | rsb@ostel.com | 650-964-4678 From morganw at yahoo.com Thu Jul 19 16:54:54 2001 From: morganw at yahoo.com (Morgan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Future Bay Area protest sites? Message-ID: <20010719235454.33675.qmail@web13403.mail.yahoo.com> 1) Daniel O'Connell, the agent who swore out the affadavit and met with Adobe works for the "High Tech Squad at San Jose California" according to http://cryptome.org/usa-v-sklyarov.htm Based on http://www.fbi.gov/contact/fo/sanfran/sfcontact.htm and http://sanfrancisco.fbi.gov/contact/fo/sanfran/sfcomputer.htm I believe O'Connell works out of the San Jose Resident Agency of the FBI at 950 South Bascom, Suite 3011. 2) The U.S. Attorney's office that issued the press release about the chargest against Dimitry: 11th Floor, Federal Building 450 Golden Gate Avenue, Box 36055 San Francisco, California 94102 Any others? This might go on for a while.... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From bwilson at gene.COM Thu Jul 19 16:54:21 2001 From: bwilson at gene.COM (Brian Wilson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Heise News Ticker covers case References: <20010719163049.A1595@bb-zone.com> Message-ID: <3B57732D.243950C6@gene.com> If you want a good laugh put it into babelfish on altavista.com... "Allegedly the father was arrested by two children on 16 July before his hotel Alexis Park hotel of the FBI." Brian Bodo Bauer wrote: > FYI, the popular German news site www.heise.de has a short article > on DMitry's case: > > http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/daa-19.07.01-000 > > BB > -- > Bodo Bauer http://www.bb-zone.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Untitled25Name: Untitled25 > Type: Plain Text (text/plain) From maxomai at aracnet.com Thu Jul 19 16:57:22 2001 From: maxomai at aracnet.com (Michael C. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: ; from jeme@brelin.net on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 04:27:30PM -0700 References: <87vgkoa4m6.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010719165722.E25314@aracnet.com> On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 04:27:30PM -0700, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > On 19 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > > Uh... do we want to present a list of demands to Adobe on Monday? > > > > What would those demands be? > > > > Also, could someone with some tiny bit of understanding of criminal > > law tell us if it's even possible for Adobe to do anything at this > > point to "drop" their complaint? > > I honestly don't think anyone from Adobe will even officially acknowledge > you. Some cops might show up and that's about it. > > Please try and go into this as an awareness campaign and less like you > think you're going to have demands met. I concur. The purpose of a demonstration is to publicize your cause; trying to intimidate Adobe into meeting your demands with a demonstration is pointless. However, as awareness grows, they'll eventually realize that they made a boneheaded move from a PR standpoint. Hopefully other companies will learn from Adobe's mistake and not be so heavy handed when they get egg on their faces. > > J. Mike Smith From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 16:59:55 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Help Update Sklyarov Protest Contacts / Locations Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719165614.03d715c8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Folks, Here is the list of protest contacts and locations we have so far... please help fill in the missing pieces. This should be up on the EFF site momentarily. Thanks, Will ------- Here is a list of Free Sklyarov protest contacts and locations which will be updated on a rapid basis as we receive further information: MOSCOW (RUSSIA) Contact: Ilya V. Vasilyev, hscool@netclub.ru BOSTON (MA) Contact: C. Scott Ananian, cananian@mit.edu, 617 253-7710 work, 617 233-1238 cell CHICAGO (IL) Contact: DENVER (CO) Contact: Sonja Tideman, sonjat@cs.unm.edu, 970-419-8866 PORTLAND (OR) 11:00 am - 1:00 pm Terry Shrunck Plaza Meet outside the federal building Contact: Jeme A Brelin, jeme@brelin.net, 503-287-2304 RENO (NV) Contact: Sam Phillips, sam@dasbistro.com, 775-843-4114 SAN JOSE (CA) 11:00 am - 1:00 pm Adobe Headquarters Meet at Quetzalcoatl snake sculpture at South end of Cesar de Chavez Park, corner of South Market St. and West Carlos St., then marching to Adobe Headquarters, Contact: Will Doherty, help-sklyarov@eff.org, 415-436-9333 x111, 415-794-6064 (cell for use during action) SEATTLE (WA) Contact: Neale Pickett, neale@woozle.org, 206-290-7309 [Note: Neale is not available over part of the weekend, so if someone else can act as the contact, that would be great!] -end- From free-sklyarov at happycool.com Thu Jul 19 16:59:26 2001 From: free-sklyarov at happycool.com (Victor Piterbarg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda In-Reply-To: <87zoa0a4rk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: I think the symbol is quite fitting. The way I interpret the symbol is that Adobe is identified with the old Soviet Regime. The Soviet Regime is in turn identified with opression. Therefore, Adobe + Hammer/Sickle = opressive regime. -Victor -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Klepht Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 4:17 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt writes: >> Personally I think the T-Shirts are nice, the use of the >> Russian symbology would turn many away. NM> Please, it is Soviet symbology, not Russian. ...unfortunately conflated in the mind of the American public. The fact that Sklyarov is Russian confuses the message of this symbol somewhat. It might be useful (although no longer timely) to come up with a symbol of oppression that is not so loaded with Cold War symbolism. For example... uh... a boot? My guess is that the horse is out of the barn on this one, though. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 17:19:29 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <87g0bs7a57.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: On 19 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "JAB" == Jeme A Brelin writes: > JAB> I honestly don't think anyone from Adobe will even officially > JAB> acknowledge you. Some cops might show up and that's about > JAB> it. > > Having a list of demands gives a focus to the demonstration. "This is > what we're asking from Adobe. This is why we're here." I think it was > Nick who said that a protest with concrete goals cannot succeed. I think it's an absolute TRUE-ISM that if you don't have goals, you cannot succeed! How would you know when you're done? But seriously, your goal is to raise awareness. If one person becomes more aware, then you were successful. We don't need Adobe to DO anything. They cannot support you because they MUST have copyright protection. They're a SOFTWARE COMPANY. The depend on false scarcity. That scarcity is threatened by modern technology, so they do what they can to protect their business model. After all, while the DMCA is a piece of garbage and a gross violation of individual rights, it is probably the only thing that can save copyright in this modern age. We need to make the hard choice. Hopefully we'll come out on the side of people instead of software companies. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From vsync at quadium.net Thu Jul 19 17:21:01 2001 From: vsync at quadium.net (vsync) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Some Adobe substitutes In-Reply-To: <20010719155347.A25314@aracnet.com> References: <20010719155347.A25314@aracnet.com> Message-ID: <87snfs30ya.fsf@feynman.hurstdog.org> "Michael C. Smith" writes: > TeX: Industrial strength publishing software (think math books). > Output formats include dvi, pdf(!!) and html. There's a whole mess of > web pages on the software available at > http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Desktop_Publishing/TeX/ I used pdfLaTeX to generate http://quadium.net/random/free_dmitri.pdf ...(collapsing into a fit of evil giggles)... -- vsync http://quadium.net/ (cons (cons (car (cons 'c 'r)) (cdr (cons 'a 'o))) ; Orjner (cons (cons (car (cons 'n 'c)) (cdr (cons nil 's))) nil)) From rabbi at quickie.net Thu Jul 19 17:20:49 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Future Bay Area protest sites? In-Reply-To: <20010719235454.33675.qmail@web13403.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Morgan wrote: > 1) Daniel O'Connell, the agent who swore out the affadavit and > met with Adobe works for the "High Tech Squad at San Jose > California" according to http://cryptome.org/usa-v-sklyarov.htm > > Based on > http://www.fbi.gov/contact/fo/sanfran/sfcontact.htm > and > http://sanfrancisco.fbi.gov/contact/fo/sanfran/sfcomputer.htm > > I believe O'Connell works out of the San Jose Resident Agency of > the FBI at 950 South Bascom, Suite 3011. I've been there. It's a really small office, and the agents there don't seem too familiar with computer/internet technology. This angle is probable a waste of time, and just going to annoy the FBI and the agents involved (who are pretty much removed from things now that the arrest has been made, I believe). > 2) The U.S. Attorney's office that issued the press release > about the chargest against Dimitry: Probably a better place to write. -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From proclus at iname.com Thu Jul 19 17:24:08 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus realm) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Free substitutes for Adobe software Message-ID: <3B577A28.4857231A@iname.com> -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: proclus@iname.com Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov](no subject) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Size: 3982 Url: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010719/b43e5f2f/attachment.mht From maxomai at aracnet.com Thu Jul 19 17:27:05 2001 From: maxomai at aracnet.com (Michael C. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: ; from rsb@ostel.com on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 05:22:01PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010719172705.F25314@aracnet.com> On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 05:22:01PM -0700, Rich Bodo wrote: > > Book burning is a powerful image. One could claim that turning > > a book into an eBook is the same as burning it. Either way > > people could be losing access to the ideas in the book. > > Also TRUE. Peaceful protestors regularly stage dramatic events that > mimic the actions of irresponsible corporations all the time. It's > very effective at getting news coverage and putting the actions being > protested in the most negative light. It's also a little more ballsy > and hardcore and less people are likely to want to do it. In general, > very hard to pull off with a positive effect. It could work. Heh...old protesters call this Guerilla Theatre...basically it would be a short demonstration of what the offender is doing, and taking it to an extreme. For example: Someone shouts, "Look, you can read the back of this cerial box with this secret decoder ring!" Immediately the FBI tackles and beats the person. Stage blood flies everywhere. Congressman with cigar: "This might look heavy handed to you, but we've got to stop those evil hackers from breaking corporations' secret codes!" Applause from the CEO of Adobe. A similar idea: print up pamphlets to pass out. Printed backwards: "If you can read this sentence, you might be committing a felony." Then go on to explain what DMCA does and why it hurts free expression (all in regularly printed text, of course!) Mike Smith From pablos at kadrevis.com Thu Jul 19 17:27:56 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Indy Media In-Reply-To: <20010719160515.C25314@aracnet.com> References: <20010719174440.E4588@tastytronic.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20010719155411.02009420@pop3.norton.antivirus> <20010719160515.C25314@aracnet.com> Message-ID: <696456.995563676@[0.0.0.0]> > Be sure to send out a notice on chicago.indymedia.org > while you're at it. Good tip. People in all areas should alert indymedia.org so they can have people cover activities. pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From proclus at iname.com Thu Jul 19 17:32:25 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus realm) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Free substitutes for Adobe software References: <3B577A28.4857231A@iname.com> Message-ID: <3B577C19.91AEDE7B@iname.com> > We have shown that free software can beat > Apache to the punch on this new platform. We plan to have the GIMP at ****** > BTW, you may freely distribute verbatim copies of this email as you > like. Err sorry, please feel free to fix the typos, like that above if you choose to redistribute that ;-} Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 17:30:45 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: References: <87g0bs7a57.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719172941.03d96b60@pop3.norton.antivirus> I believe we want Adobe to withdraw the complaint they made to the Department of Justice regarding Dmitry Sklyarov and to refrain from initiating similar complaints in the future. Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- From jon at callas.org Thu Jul 19 17:34:43 2001 From: jon at callas.org (Jon Callas) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <20010719165722.E25314@aracnet.com> References: <87vgkoa4m6.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010719165722.E25314@aracnet.com> Message-ID: At 4:57 PM -0700 7/19/01, Michael C. Smith wrote: >I concur. The purpose of a demonstration is to publicize your cause; >trying to intimidate Adobe into meeting your demands with a demonstration >is pointless. However, as awareness grows, they'll eventually realize >that they made a boneheaded move from a PR standpoint. Hopefully other >companies will learn from Adobe's mistake and not be so heavy handed >when they get egg on their faces. > I thought the demand is the name of the mailing list: Free Sklyarov. Nothing more, nothing less. Remember, focus. I'll go back to what I said in my last posting. The issue that matters is how Sklyarov is being treated, it's not Adobe. Here's an analogy: suppose a neighbor of yours is having a loud party. Suppose that another neighbor calls the cops on the loud party. Suppose the cops burst in with night sticks, cracking heads and hauling people to jail. I can understand being peeved with the neighbor who called the cops (especially if you were at the party). But the real complaint is with the cops escalating a complaint into an incident. The objective is to get your friends out of jail. Don't misguidedly start telling your neighbor what a horrid person they are, if what you want them to do is to drop their complaint. It's counter-productive. Jon From maxomai at aracnet.com Thu Jul 19 17:35:46 2001 From: maxomai at aracnet.com (Michael C. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another DCMA case of interest Message-ID: <20010719173546.A31757@aracnet.com> Slashdot has news of another DMCA case, this one involving the RIAA and two professors who were intimidated into not publishing their research. http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/07/20/0018235&mode=nested Keep this in mind when you write up your anti-DMCA literature. Mike Smith From jono at microshaft.org Thu Jul 19 17:37:55 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719172941.03d96b60@pop3.norton.antivirus>; from wild@eff.org on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 05:30:45PM -0700 References: <87g0bs7a57.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <5.1.0.14.0.20010719172941.03d96b60@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20010719173755.B60299@networkcommand.com> Shouldn't we want a review of the DMCA as well? This would prevent other companies from taking similar action. On 19-Jul-2001, Will Doherty wrote: > I believe we want Adobe to withdraw the complaint they made > to the Department of Justice regarding Dmitry Sklyarov > and to refrain from initiating similar complaints > in the future. > > Will Doherty > Online Activist / Media Relations > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > Web http://www.eff.org > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > ------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010719/270b428c/attachment.pgp From jono at microshaft.org Thu Jul 19 17:40:50 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <20010719172705.F25314@aracnet.com>; from maxomai@aracnet.com on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 05:27:05PM -0700 References: <20010719172705.F25314@aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20010719174050.C60299@networkcommand.com> Rewrite the adobe part of Sklyarov's power point on the street in chalk in front of the building. On 19-Jul-2001, Michael C. Smith wrote: > On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 05:22:01PM -0700, Rich Bodo wrote: > > > Book burning is a powerful image. One could claim that turning > > > a book into an eBook is the same as burning it. Either way > > > people could be losing access to the ideas in the book. > > > > Also TRUE. Peaceful protestors regularly stage dramatic events that > > mimic the actions of irresponsible corporations all the time. It's > > very effective at getting news coverage and putting the actions being > > protested in the most negative light. It's also a little more ballsy > > and hardcore and less people are likely to want to do it. In general, > > very hard to pull off with a positive effect. It could work. > > Heh...old protesters call this Guerilla Theatre...basically it would > be a short demonstration of what the offender is doing, and taking it > to an extreme. > > For example: Someone shouts, "Look, you can read the back of this > cerial box with this secret decoder ring!" Immediately the FBI tackles > and beats the person. Stage blood flies everywhere. Congressman with > cigar: "This might look heavy handed to you, but we've got to stop > those evil hackers from breaking corporations' secret codes!" Applause > from the CEO of Adobe. > > A similar idea: print up pamphlets to pass out. Printed backwards: > "If you can read this sentence, you might be committing a felony." > Then go on to explain what DMCA does and why it hurts free expression > (all in regularly printed text, of course!) > > Mike Smith > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010719/f1f6af6d/attachment.pgp From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 17:45:43 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <20010719173755.B60299@networkcommand.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719172941.03d96b60@pop3.norton.antivirus> <87g0bs7a57.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <5.1.0.14.0.20010719172941.03d96b60@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719174433.03d93d20@pop3.norton.antivirus> Yes, we can't demand that of Adobe. But I agree that it should be part of the protest demands since others are taking place at non-Adobe locations. I expect that after the Adobe protest, there will be another San Francisco Bay Area protest at a federal courthouse where the case will be heard. Will Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 05:37 PM 7/19/2001 -0700, Jon O . wrote: >Shouldn't we want a review of the DMCA as well? > >This would prevent other companies from taking >similar action. > > > >On 19-Jul-2001, Will Doherty wrote: > > I believe we want Adobe to withdraw the complaint they made > > to the Department of Justice regarding Dmitry Sklyarov > > and to refrain from initiating similar complaints > > in the future. > > > > Will Doherty > > Online Activist / Media Relations > > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > > Web http://www.eff.org > > > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > > ------- > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 17:47:23 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87elrc5sv8.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JAB" == Jeme A Brelin writes: JAB> But seriously, your goal is to raise awareness. If one JAB> person becomes more aware, then you were successful. I thought our goal was to FREE SKLYAROV? JAB> We don't need Adobe to DO anything. I think it's already been brought up that if Adobe withdraws its complaint, there is a better chance that the prosecutors will drop the case and let Dmitry go home to his family. So, yes, we need Adobe to withdraw its complaint. JAB> They cannot support you because they MUST have copyright JAB> protection. They're a SOFTWARE COMPANY. They don't have to support us. They just have to surrender. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 17:49:20 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <20010719173755.B60299@networkcommand.com> References: <87g0bs7a57.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <5.1.0.14.0.20010719172941.03d96b60@pop3.norton.antivirus> <20010719173755.B60299@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <87ae205srz.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JO" == Jon O writes: JO> Shouldn't we want a review of the DMCA as well? This would JO> prevent other companies from taking similar action. That might make a good demand for people demonstrating before Federal Buildings, but it's not good to ask of Adobe. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From rms at privacyfoundation.org Thu Jul 19 17:47:58 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <87g0bs7a57.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <01f701c110b5$9efb9f60$6501a8c0@rmsnew> I think there needs to be only one demand: Adobe should do whatever it takes to get Dmitry freed from jail and on a plane back to Moscow immediately. Adobe has a lot of smart lawyers. I am sure they can figure out how to make this happen. Richard -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net] On Behalf Of Klepht Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 7:49 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands >>>>> "JAB" == Jeme A Brelin writes: Me> Uh... do we want to present a list of demands to Adobe on Me> Monday? JAB> I honestly don't think anyone from Adobe will even officially JAB> acknowledge you. Some cops might show up and that's about JAB> it. Having a list of demands gives a focus to the demonstration. "This is what we're asking from Adobe. This is why we're here." I think it was Nick who said that a protest with concrete goals cannot succeed. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From pablos at kadrevis.com Thu Jul 19 17:56:37 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Alternative Software list In-Reply-To: <20010719125754.E3224@aracnet.com> References: <20010719125754.E3224@aracnet.com> Message-ID: <799708.995565397@[0.0.0.0]> I've added a list of alternative software that people can use instead of Adobe Products to the Boycott Adobe site. Free and commercial sofware is fine for the list. If people want to send me other submissions, I'll post them as well. pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From rabbi at quickie.net Thu Jul 19 17:58:19 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719172941.03d96b60@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Exactly. Jon Callas stated the reasons for this very well in his post. For the new-comers, it can be found at: http://securitygeeks.shmoo.com/article.php?story=20010719141720141 We want Dmitry free. The quickest acceptable way to make that happen is for Adobe to drop their complaint. Without Adobe, the case is very weak. Secondarily, we want other companies to realize that actions like Adobe's in this case are an extreme PR fiasco. On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > I believe we want Adobe to withdraw the complaint they made > to the Department of Justice regarding Dmitry Sklyarov > and to refrain from initiating similar complaints > in the future. > > Will Doherty > Online Activist / Media Relations > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > Web http://www.eff.org > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > ------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From ldavids at northwestern.edu Thu Jul 19 17:59:30 2001 From: ldavids at northwestern.edu (Lloyd Davidson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010719194937.0323ea30@casbah.it.northwestern.edu> What about locking a book inside of a small safe instead of burning it? Burying it might be another apt metaphor. Both of these are more closely equivalent to the encryption of text that keeps its content hidden away then burning. Actually, however, I am not opposed in principle to encrypting books or other copyrighted content as an aid to stopping widespread copyright abuse and infringement, although I don't make my money directly from the sale of copyrighted materials. The experience of Napster has frightened publishers by its abuses of copyrighted materials and part of the drive to implement digital rights management systems to encapsulate digital materials partly derives from this experience. What I am opposed to is extracting unfair profits from the sale of copyrighted materials, especially overcharging for them and underpaying the creators themselves. How to define "unfair profits" is, of course, not simple. L. At 04:21 PM 7/19/2001 -0700, you wrote: >Message: 10 >Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:46:20 -0700 (PDT) >From: Mo DeJong >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net >Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? > >On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Don Marti wrote: > > > begin Mo DeJong quotation of Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 01:15:30PM -0700: > > > > > Some posters mentioned the need for a good "hook" > > > that might get the media to cover a protest at > > > Adobe. How about an eBook burning? > > > > Book burning == bad in most people's minds. This is about the > > opposite of book burning -- book reading. > >Book burning is a powerful image. One could claim that turning >a book into an eBook is the same as burning it. Either way >people could be losing access to the ideas in the book. > > > And the second anyone starts a fire, message diluted, hazard created, > > they have a reason to break it up, bad things all the way around. > > > > Please don't set anything on fire. And in all other things, please > > be polite and on your best behavior. > >Don, you are being too literal. Someone mentioned a projector >before. Why not incorporate that into a little program that >displayed a burning eBook? It is just an idea, I am not saying >it is a good one. > >My point was that when staging an event that you would like the >mass media to cover, you have to simplify the message. Few >people will understand a protest over encryption and the DMCA. >On the other hand, "eBooks burned outside Adobe Headquarters" >might interest a few readers. > >cheers >Mo From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 18:03:39 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719172941.03d96b60@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <87g0bs7a57.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <5.1.0.14.0.20010719172941.03d96b60@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <8766co5s44.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "WD" == Will Doherty writes: WD> I believe we want Adobe to withdraw the complaint they made to WD> the Department of Justice regarding Dmitry Sklyarov and to WD> refrain from initiating similar complaints in the future. So, we demand that... 1) Adobe immediately withdraw its complaint against Dmitry Sklyarov. 2) Adobe immediately and officially request that the US Attorney's Office drop the criminal case against Dmitry Sklyarov and release him from custody. 3) Adobe pledge to refrain from filing criminal complaints under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) in the future. 4) Adobe acknowledge that it is a disservice to its partners, its customers, and the scientific community to silence legitimate criticisms of its copy-protection schemes. 5) Adobe pledge its support for open and fair peer review of all Adobe copy protection schemes, particularly encrypted PDF and eBook. 6) Adobe pledge to work with the scientific and technical communities to amend the eBook architecture to preserve fair use rights for end users. I think this is a small list of straightforward and very middle-of-the-road demands. They are all within Adobe's power to effect, and they do not put Adobe into any untenable positions. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From karl.deabrew at binarything.com Thu Jul 19 18:04:17 2001 From: karl.deabrew at binarything.com (Karl De Abrew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Media coverage Message-ID: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F5C3@mail.roundtable.com.au> If anyone is aware of any new (July 19+) media coverage local or international, please email editor@planetebook.com and let us know so we can keep our index page current. http://www.planetebook.com/usvsklyarov Tks, -Karl _________________________________________ Karl De Abrew karl.deabrew@binarything.com http://www.planetpdf.com/ http://www.planetebook.com/ http://www.xmlarena.com/ http://www.binarything.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 19 18:06:13 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: ; from jeme@brelin.net on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 05:19:29PM -0700 References: <87g0bs7a57.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010719180613.A32403@zork.net> Jeme A Brelin writes: > We don't need Adobe to DO anything. They cannot support you because they > MUST have copyright protection. They're a SOFTWARE COMPANY. The depend > on false scarcity. That scarcity is threatened by modern technology, so > they do what they can to protect their business model. The copy protection technology that AEBPR defeats is not preventing people from copying Adobe software. It is preventing people from copying, and from making many other ordinary uses of, certain electronic books. Adobe doesn't _need_ to make software that prevents these uses. For many years, Adobe sold software which did not enforce these restrictions against users. For various reasons, some of Adobe's customers would like Adobe's software to enforce these restrictions and prevent these uses. But Adobe's software is still useful to Adobe customers even if it doesn't impose these restrictions. It's _more_ useful to certain customers when it doesn't. Allowing people to circumvent these restrictions in order to make legal uses does not imply the end of copyright, and there are many software companies (like ElcomSoft!) which currently rely on copyrights but don't think that these restrictions are a good thing for end users. A lot of us here are certainly free software enthusiasts as well as DMCA and CTEA critics; but we shouldn't allow anyone to get away with suggesting that opposing TPMs is the same thing as opposing copyright, or that opposing putting people in jail for "circumvention" is the same thing as opposing copyright. ElcomSoft's documentation is very clear that copyrights exist, that ElcomSoft does not advocate copyright infringement, and that software like AEBPR is designed to allow the purchaser of a copy to have more control over the possible uses of that copy. Adobe might not have intended for the user to have so much control, but Adobe could certainly change its mind on that point without giving up on copyright entirely. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From bill at scannell.org Thu Jul 19 18:07:57 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Employees: Thanks for your support In-Reply-To: <200107191841.LAA23330@webmail.speakeasy.net> Message-ID: Hi Adobe Humans, To be honest, I didn't know quite what to expect when I sent out an email earlier today asking you to help out the cause. You surprised me. Thanks to all of you who came forward I have all the volunteers inside Adobe I can handle right now. Come Tuesday, there should be ample reading material on the Sklyarov situation and management's shameful involvement in it. Again, thanks! -Bill PS: Someone made the suggestion that employees stop putting in overtime until management shapes up. Perhaps that could be a topic of discussion on the new list? From proclus at iname.com Thu Jul 19 18:00:57 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Divestment? I think not... In-Reply-To: <20010719174617.A11084@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <200107200101.f6K110u04501@moerbeke> Here's a thought: Undermine the brand and value of Adobe products. When the stock price falls, by it up and vote the bums out! GPL all the source code. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From sam at dasbistro.com Thu Jul 19 16:18:48 2001 From: sam at dasbistro.com (Sam Phillips) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] a legal question... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010719143936.354bb008@dna-mail1.gene.com>; from bwilson@gene.COM on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 02:43:06PM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010719143936.354bb008@dna-mail1.gene.com> Message-ID: <20010719161848.H1607@dasbistro.com> On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 02:43:06PM -0700, Brian Wilson wrote: > > I am not a lawyer, but since this is a criminal case and not a civil one, > does it really matter at this point whether or not Adobe asks this case to > be dropped? Isn't this something the justice system will decide? Moreover, > what I'm asking, is that if we could get our way with Adobe, would it > matter, since the feds are involved pursuing him as a criminal, instead of > Adobe vs Dmitry in a civil matter. IANAL, but as the accuser you can always decide to drop charges. Look at domestic violence cases, where spouses drop charges. -- Sam Phillips http://www.dasbistro.com Reno Nevada From sam at dasbistro.com Thu Jul 19 17:39:25 2001 From: sam at dasbistro.com (Sam Phillips) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] More Reno information Message-ID: <20010719173924.L1607@dasbistro.com> To get a bit more together in the Reno area we'll be having an organizational meeting tommorow (Friday) night at my apartment. Feel free to email me offlist for address and directions. Cheers, Sam -- Sam Phillips http://www.dasbistro.com Reno Nevada From paul at paultopia.net Thu Jul 19 23:13:31 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] more on portland Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720001324.00e60ba0@mail.paultopia.net> I've also put together an egroup for planning the Portland action. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/portland-sklyarov-protest how on earth do you spell "soverign" ?? -Paul -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From adobedemonstrator at hotmail.com Thu Jul 19 20:57:35 2001 From: adobedemonstrator at hotmail.com (Adobe Demonstrator) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Demonstration vigil instructions Message-ID: >Note that these vigil picket suggestions are somewhat different from >the organized demonstration event on Monday Yes, the Monday event will be more of a free-for-all, with a diversity of signage encouraged http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html The point of the vigil picket is to impress Adobe's businesspeople. A unified appearance, calm demeanor, and plenty of handouts will be more well-suited to achieve that goal. All it takes to maintain a picket vigil during business hours is enough demonstrators able to effectively distribute their time. This list can be used to help, but exchanging private email addresses can't hurt. Hopefully, the EFF office staff will help coordinate the vigil after their kick-off. Free Sklyarov! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From paul at paultopia.net Thu Jul 19 23:19:36 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719231541.03937270@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <87elrc5sv8.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720001853.00e55290@mail.paultopia.net> Yea, they had that before the DMCA was passed. The DMCA is a drastic expansion of copyright rights, under the guise of an attempt to stop infringers from building tools for piracy. -Paul At 12:16 AM 7/20/01, you wrote: >Perhaps there is a way for them to get copyright protection >while still permitting fair use under copyright law? > >> JAB> They cannot support you because they MUST have copyright >> JAB> protection. They're a SOFTWARE COMPANY. > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From derek_gladding at altavista.net Thu Jul 19 23:20:22 2001 From: derek_gladding at altavista.net (Derek Gladding) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's family Message-ID: Anyone know of a route to send support/cards/whatever through to Dmitry's family ? They must be going through hell right now - I'd like to let them know that people care and are doing all they can. - Derek From shag-sklyarov at booyaka.com Thu Jul 19 21:27:31 2001 From: shag-sklyarov at booyaka.com (Paul Walmsley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Rocky Mountain IMC post; RMS' DMCA writings Message-ID: The following has just gone out on the Rocky Mountain IMC news wire. Anyone is free to use or modify it for their own use without restrictions. I would also commend Richard Stallman's writings on the DMCA. One is referenced below; also try the main document index at . Best regards to everyone of conscience on this list. Thank you all for speaking out for our freedom. - Paul -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE ** July 19, 2001 Earlier this week, a Russian graduate student named Dmitry Sklyarov was arrested after a presentation at a technical conference in Las Vegas, Nevada. His presentation concerned the flimsiness of the anti-fair-use software used in Adobe Systems, Inc.'s electronic book products. He was arrested on suspicion of violating the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, or DMCA, a United States federal law passed in 1998 by the 105th Congress as H.R. 2281. The DMCA provides for significant criminal penalties for anyone distributing information on bypassing "anti-circumvention devices" on copyrighted material. This arrest is significant for several reasons. It's the first test of the DMCA's criminal provisions. The FBI arrested a Russian national for acts supposedly committed in Russia. And he was arrested shortly after giving a scientific presentation on a legitimate computer science topic. On Friday, July 20, 7:30 PM, we'll be meeting at the Boulder Bookstore's coffeeshop (aka "the Bookend Cafe") at 1115 Pearl St. in Boulder. If for some reason we are unable to meet in the cafe itself, we'll be meeting just outside the cafe on the Pearl Street sidewalk mall. If you're outside the Rocky Mountain area, please see the EFF link below for details on actions in your area. Join us to help free Dmitry Sklyarov. Join us if you value your right to read and share books. And join us if you value scientists' right to share information freely at conferences. All these rights are under significant attack by e-book publishers and software vendors. For further information on the meeting, please see , or contact Sonja V. Tideman at . Also, for further background information on the situation, consider reading the following links: A reprint of the complaint and the July 18th New York Times article: The Electronic Freedom Foundation's protest information page: Thoughts about the DMCA: PlanetEbook's index of USA vs. Sklyarov-related stories: From jparks at onebox.com Thu Jul 19 20:38:45 2001 From: jparks at onebox.com (Jeff Parks) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] adobe forums Message-ID: <20010720033845.FHGC26282.mta04.onebox.com@onebox.com> Hello all, In case you weren't aware, Adobe hosts forums on their main site.. http://www.adobe.com/support/forums/main.html This is not a place for spam or abusive posts, but I believe Adobe would benefit from hearing from concerned customers. All who feel so inclined should take a few moments and do so. peace out __________________________________________________ FREE voicemail, email, and fax...all in one place. Sign Up Now! http://www.onebox.com From rabbi at quickie.net Thu Jul 19 23:23:46 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I do not have the time at present to address this email. Once I'm able to focus on other things, I certainly will come back to it. Thanks, Len On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Len Sassaman wrote: > > Find someone else to be your test case. An American. You, perhaps. > > I'm working on it. > > > > Maybe you're just trusting Felten v. RIAA. > > Maybe we want to see this 26 year old father of two returned to his family > > in his home country. > > Maybe we should wait and ask him which is more important to him: the > personal freedom of millions of other human beings or his ability to spend > more time with his kids. I know which one I'd choose. > > > > > 5) Adobe pledge its support for open and fair peer review of all Adobe > > > > copy protection schemes, particularly encrypted PDF and eBook. > > > Do you really want to see these schemes IMPROVED? Do you really want to > > > make it so that they have both legal AND technical ability to prevent you > > > from exercising your rights? > > > > Irrelevant to the topic of this list, but yes. > > It was made relevant by stating it as one of "our demands". > > > If they are going to sell a product, it should do what they are > > claiming. Copyright holders are trusting Adobe to provide security for > > their eBooks, and Adobe is failing to do so. > > It DOES do what it's claiming. It has an access control that, by the > standards of the DMCA, "effectively controls access". Circumventing that > control is illegal, so it doesn't matter what kind of job it does under > objective scrutiny. > > > If you don't like how eBooks function, don't buy them. > > And just "deal with it" when it become the dominant form of media? I > don't think so. > > If I'm going to be granting a person monopoly rights, I'm going to do it > for a good reason like public benefit. > > > > > 6) Adobe pledge to work with the scientific and technical communities > > > > to amend the eBook architecture to preserve fair use rights for end > > > > users. > > > It is simply NOT POSSIBLE to allow fair use and implement access controls. > > This is irrelevant to the topic of this list -- freeing Dmitry. > > The list is CALLED "free-dmitry", but we don't simply want him free. We > want it to be impossible to legally jail someone on this pretext ever > again. > > > But I will make the one comment that *no one* should be arguing that > > access controls be made illegal. Only that analysis of and attempts to > > defeat access controls should not be illegal. > > I'm arguing it and I'm sure you'd agree that I have every right to do so. > > > A copyright holder has the right to make whatever contract he wants > > when he licenses you his software. You just built a strawman argument > > that our enemies can knock down. I suggest you take this to a > > different, more appropriate list. > > First, what makes them a copyright holder? Copyright is something granted > to them by the public in return for public benefit. If the work isn't > public, it shouldn't be copyrighted. > > Second, a license is not sale. This is the bullshit we've been fed in the > last decade or two. They've convinced us that they don't SELL a copy of > their work to us anymore, they merely license it. The license exists to > impose arbitrary conditions on the public; conditions that are NOT part of > the agreement that gave them copyright on the first place. Licensing a > work is inherently NOT publication. > > I would argue that a person distributing information can either use legal > protection measures (a la copyright law) OR technological protection > measures (a la CSS), but not both. Using both allows the distributor to > get the benefit of a publicly sanctioned and subsidized monopoly without > necessarily benefiting the public in any way. > > Third, this list is exactly the forum for these issues. The arrest of > Dmitry Sklyarov is one symptom in the increasing disease of our > society. The primary indications of this disease are: destruction of the > public sphere, corporate control of government, and lack of national > humility. We need to use this atrocity to raise awareness of these > issues. Simply freeing Dmitry will leave us no further away from the > situation we were in on Saturday, before Dmitry's arrest. > > J. > -- > ----------------- > Jeme A Brelin > jeme@brelin.net > ----------------- > [cc] counter-copyright > http://www.openlaw.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From krburger at burger-family.org Thu Jul 19 21:11:49 2001 From: krburger at burger-family.org (Kenneth Burger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Don't you love politics? Message-ID: <001401c110d2$1909e520$0800a8c0@balthazar> Gee, I start talking about organizing a protest in Detroit and all of a sudden I'm getting packeted like mad by several different IP addresses. They managed to slow stuff down quite a bit but I could still get email and IMs through. It's amazing how much a little political activeness can scare people. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/793e31d1/attachment.htm From phr-2001 at nightsong.com Thu Jul 19 23:04:37 2001 From: phr-2001 at nightsong.com (phr-2001@nightsong.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Gallery of Adobe Remedies now open for visitors Message-ID: <20010720060437.10919.qmail@brouhaha.com> Dave Touretsky, curator of the famous Gallery of CSS Descramblers (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery) has now opened the Gallery of Adobe Remedies, at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery The Gallery will publish information about Adobe's access control mechanisms and the remedies people have devised to deal with them. Right now, the only exhibition in the Gallery is from Elcomsoft; future expansion is eagerly anticipated. Enjoy! From krburger at burger-family.org Thu Jul 19 20:51:16 2001 From: krburger at burger-family.org (Kenneth Burger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] logistical stuff. References: Message-ID: <047601c110cf$3a98ed60$0800a8c0@balthazar> I wouldn't mind putting it in as a note on a flyer. Speaking of which, what should I put on the flyers? I'm great at writing creative stories and such, but I'm not really good at persuasive articles. So far I appear to be the only one I know that's interested in doing this. My friends seem to think that it's a waste of time and not worth the trouble. It's probably going to have to be more than just me. If I do this it will have to be on the weekend or in the evening because trying to get time off from my job is a bad idea right now, but that's not to say that someone can't take 8-1, another take 1-6, and I'd take 6-10 on a weekday evening. By the way, my contact info is as follows: Kenneth R. Burger 810-977-1674 krburger@burger-family.org Please don't call after 10PM EDT though cuz other people in this house go to sleep early in the evening. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric C. Grimm" To: "Kenneth Burger" Cc: Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 11:02 PM Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] logistical stuff. > Kenneth Burger says: > > I'd like to organize one in Detroit, but I don't even know if there's a > federal building there anymore. > ________________________ > > There is. Right downtown at 231 W. Lafayette Boulevard. > ________________________ > > Plus I have no experience with this sort of > thing, but if anyone's interested in getting together to do some sort of > protest in the Metro-Detroit area, please > drop me a line. > ________________________ > > While you're at it, please try to drop in a secondary fordreallysucks.com > (check the Website) theme into the protest. The Ford v. 2600 case is still > pending in the Detroit Federal courthouse (no injunction, though!!!!). Our > latest papers are here: > http://www.2600.com/news/070501-files/2600_M_DISS.pdf > > If you want some bumper stickers -- either CODING IS NOT A CRIME (EFF) or > WWW.FORDREALLYSUCKS.COM (2600), I still have at least a few of both. > > Eric C. Grimm > CyberBrief, PLC > 320 South Main Street > P.O. Box 7341 > Ann Arbor, MI 48107-7341 > 734.332.4900 > fax 734.332.4901 > eric.grimm@CyberBrief.net > > > From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 23:28:44 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] logistical stuff. In-Reply-To: <87g0bs4ccf.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> References: <87hew8a3r5.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719232457.01fcde40@pop3.norton.antivirus> Stanton will likely be updating the EFF Alert page in about one hour from now with all the latest protest info from this list. It's quite the impressive list of Free Sklyarov protests at http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html (linked from center top of front page EFF website). Thanks to all of you for the rapid organizing... the sample leaflets, protest signs, and media releases will be listed on the EFF alert page tomorrow (Friday) during the day, as soon as I can get some sleep then return to work to collect it all together. If anyone has designs to share, please let us know. Free Dmitry, Will Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 06:29 PM 7/19/2001 -0700, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "NP" == Neale Pickett writes: > > Me> So, do we have a Web page with the info for protests in each > Me> city (I count Seattle, Chicago, San Francisco, Denver, > Me> Portland, and maybe Moscow?)? > > NP> I've thrown up a web page for Seattle, not much there yet but > NP> a map and times: > > NP> > >Excellent! Hey, don't forget to call the police, too. I don't know >what the story is, but apparently they like to be notified. I guess it >hurts their feelings if you have a cool protest and you don't invite >them. > >Also, I was mostly looking for something like the EFF alerts page, but >it makes sense for that page to link to yours. > >~Klepht > >-- >klepht@eleutheria.org >http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 19 23:31:40 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Welcome to Adobe subscriber Message-ID: <20010719233140.L32403@zork.net> I note the relatively recent subscription of our first list member who is actually verifiably at Adobe. As I said when I announced the list, the list membership will remain confidential, and I will not identify this subscriber (although subscribers at Adobe are welcome to identify themselves if they choose). Subscribers should be aware that this list is public and unprivileged (and that there are public archives which can now be searched, since Nick set up the ht://Dig search engine). We should also be aware that we have a number of friends at Adobe who are quite concerned by what's happening to Dmitry Sklyarov. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 23:41:17 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] more on portland In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720001324.00e60ba0@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Paul Gowder wrote: > I've also put together an egroup for planning the Portland action. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/portland-sklyarov-protest I ain't joinin' a yahoogroups thing for nobody, never. I have a mailman server here at bitmine.net if all we need is a mailing list. I've (badly) published a story (multiple times) at . I've already informed the editorial staff (they're pretty much all personal friends) about the duplicates and the typo in the html tag toward the bottom (missing quotation mark) that is preventing the last paragraph from being displayed. It'll be fixed in the morning. I'm looking at getting a group of people together on Saturday morning to work stuff out... who's game? Paul, Karl... who else? Give me a call. My phone number is on the EFF coordination site. We might be able to use one of the rooms at the temporary Nader office downtown, but don't quote me because I haven't even broached the subject with anyone who would have permission to allow such a thing. My house is empty for the weekend and I'm a few blocks from a Kinko's and a hardware store, so it might be a good place all around. I'll be at my office tomorrow, so write me and I'll send you that number. > how on earth do you spell "soverign" ?? That's right. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 23:44:29 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <87ae2040dw.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: On 19 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "JAB" == Jeme A Brelin writes: > Me> 6) Adobe pledge to work with the scientific and technical > Me> communities to amend the eBook architecture to preserve fair > Me> use rights for end users. > > JAB> Well, clearly here's where the real contention/misunderstanding > JAB> lies. > > JAB> It is simply NOT POSSIBLE to allow fair use and implement > JAB> access controls. > > Lesseee... looking over that point... not really seeing the words > "access control," "copy protection," "digital rights management" or > any such term. The only thing I see we're asking for is "fair use." Well, then we don't need a NEW eBook format... Adobe already has one called PDF. The eBook format exists SOLELY to remove the ability of the public to fairly use the work because there is no way to mechanically distinguish between infringing and non-infringing use of a copyrighted work. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 19 23:43:26 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Welcome to Adobe subscriber In-Reply-To: <20010719233140.L32403@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 11:31:40PM -0700 References: <20010719233140.L32403@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010719234326.M32403@zork.net> Seth David Schoen writes: > Subscribers should be aware that this list is public and unprivileged For the benefit of foreign readers or those not familiar with U.S. law: (My own impressions, again, as a non-lawyer.) Typically a party in a case can compel people to provide copies of documents that relate to that case, or compel them to testify about what they know. This is even true of information held by people who are not involved in the case at all. For example, if I had documents which related to Sklyarov's guilt or innocence, I could be required to provide them (and I could be called to testify as a witness, and I would have to say what I know). There are exceptions to this, which are called "privileges". One example is the privilege against self-incrimination in criminal cases (nobody may be compelled to testify about things which would incriminate himself or herself). Another is the attorney-client privileges (conversations and correspondence between lawyers and their clients are confidential, and testimony about them can't be required) and similar privileges for communications between married couples and between doctors, medical professionals, clergy, and those they serve. If you have information relating to this case which is truly confidential, you should consult a lawyer before writing it down or sending it to anyone. Supporters of Dmitry Sklyarov should be aware that investigators could require information from you, and that you could be required to testify at a trial. In addition, the list of subscribers to this list could be requested; if that happened, I would ask the attorneys at the EFF to oppose the request in court. I don't know whether any of that is likely to happen. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From rabbi at quickie.net Thu Jul 19 23:45:07 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] more on portland In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > how on earth do you spell "soverign" ?? > > That's right. No. Sovereign. -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From rabbi at quickie.net Thu Jul 19 23:45:44 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boycott Adobe by BUYING one share of stock! (fwd) Message-ID: FYI: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:44:25 -0500 (CDT) From: William Knowles To: DC-Stuff Subject: Boycott Adobe by BUYING one share of stock! C4I.org/InfoSec News has decided to help the cause of Dmitry Sklyarov with his fight against Adobe Software taking a recommendation of Boycott Adobe http://www.boycottadobe.com in divesting of all but one share of Adobe. C4I.org/InfoSec News with the help of OneShare has now made it easier for concerned parties to purchase just one share of Adobe stock suitable for framing, or for just attending the shareholder meetings. http://www.oneshare.com/stock.asp?company_id=169&cat_id=1 In order to assist in the cause, OneShare will reduce the OneFee by $10. To receive this discount, all the purchaser has to do is type "freedmitry" in the promotion code box during checkout. Any questions, comments, or complaints, contact either William Knowles or Lance Lee Founder of OneShare. Sincerely, William Knowles Moderator/Editor/Senior Analyst C4I.org/InfoSec News wk@c4i.org *==============================================================* "Communications without intelligence is noise; Intelligence without communications is irrelevant." Gen Alfred. M. Gray, USMC ================================================================ C4I.org - Computer Security, & Intelligence - http://www.c4i.org *==============================================================* From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 23:47:07 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719231541.03937270@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > > JAB> They cannot support you because they MUST have copyright > > JAB> protection. They're a SOFTWARE COMPANY. > Perhaps there is a way for them to get copyright protection > while still permitting fair use under copyright law? We had that in the fair use provision of the Copyright Act pre-DMCA. The DMCA gives those who would distribute copyrighted works the power to take ANY OTHER ARBITRARY CONTROL over the work IN ADDITION to those limited exclusive rights granted by the copyright act simply by enabling a "technological protection measure", however poorly. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 23:47:38 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] more on portland In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Len Sassaman wrote: > On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > > how on earth do you spell "soverign" ?? > > That's right. > No. Sovereign. Heh... I must be sleepy. Sorry. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 23:50:47 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Petition In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010719224222.01c06e28@pop.freeserve.net> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719234832.01faba90@pop3.norton.antivirus> A well-worded petition could be helpful... let's be careful to select the right recipient and the right message. For example, should the recipient be Adobe or the US Attorney's office? It probably goes without saying that an email petition is a poor idea... I am assuming you are referring to a web-based one, yes? Free Dmitry, Will Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 10:42 PM 7/19/2001 -0600, Emerson wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >Is there a petition letter anywhere? I'm willing to have one put up >on packetstorm, and if one doens't exist, would someone care to write >one we could put up? > >Emerson > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use > >iQA/AwUBO1e2rbAwpha8VR2jEQJBuwCgh9w9p9AwtWX98qOPb+1IuPz0NKEAoMUs >xlaOl/Eb5z2KBFE1KgkAUvWu >=VQaR >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >--- >"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism > by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw >Emerson : Project Director, www.PacketstormSecurity.org >upsetting the easily distressed since 1975! >et@c4i.org >ICQ UIN: 13396569, PGP Key available, just ask. > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 23:51:52 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Silly shirt/signage idea In-Reply-To: <200107200445.VAA19821@shell3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719235144.03968208@pop3.norton.antivirus> LOL! :-) At 09:45 PM 7/19/2001 -0700, Ethan Straffin wrote: >Just something I was kicking around. It might be a liiittle cheezy, and >I'm not sure if I'll have time to make it reality anyway...but if anyone >wants to play with it, be my guest. > >Homer Simpson, wearing a T-shirt that reads "Free Sklyarov," with a voice >balloon above his head reading "Doh!" Said balloon is positioned directly >over the "do" of the familiar Adobe logo. > >Ethan >-- >"First they ignore you; then they mock you; then they punish you; then >you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From karl.deabrew at binarything.com Thu Jul 19 23:53:01 2001 From: karl.deabrew at binarything.com (Karl De Abrew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Vladimir Katalov reports from the frontline Message-ID: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F60A@mail.roundtable.com.au> Vladimir Katalov reports from the frontline http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=179 -Karl From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 20 00:12:57 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] On SF Indymedia, Too Message-ID: <87hew82hvq.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Jeez, I coulda sworn I left the word "hacker" out of that title. http://sf.indymedia.org/display.php?id=101903 ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 23:19:25 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <8766co5s44.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719172941.03d96b60@pop3.norton.antivirus> <87g0bs7a57.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <5.1.0.14.0.20010719172941.03d96b60@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719231836.038b9868@pop3.norton.antivirus> I am liking this list a lot! Thanks for working it out... Will >So, we demand that... > >1) Adobe immediately withdraw its complaint against Dmitry Sklyarov. > >2) Adobe immediately and officially request that the US Attorney's > Office drop the criminal case against Dmitry Sklyarov and release > him from custody. > >3) Adobe pledge to refrain from filing criminal complaints under the > Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) in the future. > >4) Adobe acknowledge that it is a disservice to its partners, its > customers, and the scientific community to silence legitimate > criticisms of its copy-protection schemes. > >5) Adobe pledge its support for open and fair peer review of all Adobe > copy protection schemes, particularly encrypted PDF and eBook. > >6) Adobe pledge to work with the scientific and technical communities > to amend the eBook architecture to preserve fair use rights for end > users. > >I think this is a small list of straightforward and very >middle-of-the-road demands. They are all within Adobe's power to >effect, and they do not put Adobe into any untenable positions. > >~Klepht > >-- >klepht@eleutheria.org >http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From drumz at best.com Fri Jul 20 00:12:54 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interesting statement from Elcomsoft Message-ID: <200107200712.AAA20122@shell3.ba.best.com> This sentence from caught my eye: "In addition, we would like to state our intention to publish the sources of our software in the Internet, and do our best to make them available to everyone all over the world if Adobe Systems continues to pursue us." Ethan -- "The salvation of mankind lies only in making everything the concern of all." -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 00:15:47 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] portland web page In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010719233403.00e71cc0@mail.paultopia.net> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720001529.03972a78@pop3.norton.antivirus> Excellent work! You rock! Free Dmitry, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 11:34 PM 7/19/2001 -0600, Paul Gowder wrote: >Quick-n-dirty Portland page up. > >http://www.paultopia.net/adobe/ > >Suggestions/comments/corrections? > > -Paul > >-- > -Paul Gowder > >"It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." > - Homer Simpson > > > >-- > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jstyre at jstyre.com Fri Jul 20 00:12:40 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Welcome to Adobe subscriber In-Reply-To: <20010719234326.M32403@zork.net> References: <20010719233140.L32403@zork.net> <20010719233140.L32403@zork.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010720000902.00c1f8e0@earthlink.net> At 11:43 PM 07/19/2001 -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote: >For the benefit of foreign readers or those not familiar with U.S. >law: > >(My own impressions, again, as a non-lawyer.) >Supporters of Dmitry Sklyarov should be aware that investigators could >require information from you, and that you could be required to testify >at a trial. In addition, the list of subscribers to this list could >be requested; if that happened, I would ask the attorneys at the EFF >to oppose the request in court. I don't know whether any of that is >likely to happen. The first case the crack EFF lawyers would cite, though not the last, is N.A.A.C.P. v. Alabama, 357 U.S. 449 (1958), http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=357&invol=449 -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 00:26:06 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sovereign not soverign In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720001324.00e60ba0@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720002531.03920030@pop3.norton.antivirus> Sovereign From branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net Fri Jul 20 00:29:16 2001 From: branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net (Branden Robinson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] more on portland In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720001324.00e60ba0@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <20010720022916.C2708@deadbeast.net> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 12:13:31AM -0600, Paul Gowder wrote: > I've also put together an egroup for planning the Portland action. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/portland-sklyarov-protest > > how on earth do you spell "soverign" ?? "Sovereign". Like "reign", as in "Queen Victoria reigned for most of the 19th Century", with a "sove" in front of it. -- G. Branden Robinson | "Why do we have to hide from the police, Debian GNU/Linux | Daddy?" branden@deadbeast.net | "Because we use vi, son. They use http://www.deadbeast.net/~branden/ | emacs." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/5e14fd05/attachment.pgp From mh_sklyarov at cryptonomicon.net Fri Jul 20 00:28:50 2001 From: mh_sklyarov at cryptonomicon.net (Matthew S. Hamrick) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boycott America ???? Message-ID: While it will probably take a lot more than a large multi-million dollar company convincing the USAG to throw a Russian programmer in the hoosegow to make me want to leave the country, I can't help but think about the parallels between some of the things I've been hearing from friends and on this list and the recent "defection" of a well-know stem-cell researcher from the US to the UK. Of the industrialized nations, the US has some of the most innocuous regulations concerning export of crypto software and restriction on the actions of cryptographers. Be that as it may, I still think that there may be a crypto coder or two out there who's begun to look over their shoulder, wondering when the other shoe is going to drop. So, the question is, assuming you're a crypto coder, what would it take for you to want to pack your bags and relocate to another country? On one hand, you have your Vince Cate's who have moved off-shore, purportedly as a protest to various US policies. On the other hand you have your Phil Zimmerman's who by all rights should have left years ago, but stayed. I know it's slightly off-topic, and has nothing to do with directly freeing Mr. Sklyarov, but it is an interesting question, and the answers to these types of questions might help in explaining to US policy-makers why this community is so disappointed with the actions of the USANDCA. -Sincerely, -Matt Hamrick From crism at maden.org Fri Jul 20 00:34:36 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Ashcroft in Mountain View, 20 July Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720003236.00a49050@mail.maden.org> Did anyone else notice this on cryptome.org? 19 July 2001: The Department of Justice has sent out today an embargoed announcement of US Attorney General John Ashcroft's appearance tomorrow in Mountain View, CA, to speak on cybercrime: ----- Department of Justice For Planning Purposes Only - Not For Release AG July 19, 2001 (202) 616-2777 www.usdoj.gov TDD (202) 514-1888 In CA: Lani Miller, (703) 395-4484 Washinton, DC -- Attorney General John Ashcroft will visit Northern California tomorrow, Friday, July 20, to discuss cybercrime issues. When: 11:115AM (Pacific Time), Friday, July 20 What: Attorney General News Conference Regarding Cybercrime Where: VeriSign Worldwide Headquarters 487 East Middlefield Road Mountain View, CA Does anyone know if this will be open to the public? -Chris -- Christopher R. Maden, XML Consultant DTDs/schemas - conversion - ebooks - publishing - Web - B2B - training PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From jeme at brelin.net Fri Jul 20 00:50:56 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Ashcroft in Mountain View, 20 July In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720003236.00a49050@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Christopher R. Maden wrote: > Did anyone else notice this on cryptome.org? I believe we discussed this a bit earlier. > Washinton, DC -- Attorney General John Ashcroft will visit Northern > California tomorrow, Friday, July 20, to discuss cybercrime issues. > > When: 11:115AM (Pacific Time), Friday, July 20 > > What: Attorney General News Conference > Regarding Cybercrime > > Where: VeriSign Worldwide Headquarters > 487 East Middlefield Road > Mountain View, CA My question is: WHY THE HELL is the Attorney General speaking about "cybercrime" at the headquarters to a PRIVATE CORPORATION?!? This corporation doesn't have the public's best interest in mind when it makes policies and should have no more right to direct consultation with our executives than any REAL PERSON in this country (personally, I'd argue that it has LESS right than a real person, being a legal fiction and all). J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jurassic at df.ru Fri Jul 20 00:31:32 2001 From: jurassic at df.ru (=?koi8-r?B?9y7gLg==?=) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] free-sklyarov Message-ID: <008001c110ee$05010ba0$5da12ac3@vladimir> Free-Sklyarov! From cobr1977 at ufacom.ru Fri Jul 20 00:35:04 2001 From: cobr1977 at ufacom.ru (=?koi8-r?B?98nL1M/SIOTP0s/GxcXX?=) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (no subject) Message-ID: <001b01c110ee$8fa1efe0$961616ac@ufacom.ru> ? ?????????. ??????. ___ /oo \_ __\ - / ) (__ / / \ / _\ `"""""`` -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/f8275103/attachment.htm From krw5 at qwest.net Fri Jul 20 00:22:01 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattlites Message-ID: <01072000220103.03031@stumpy> Any fellow Seattlites on this list? One of Adobe's facilities is in the Fremont neighborhood of Seattle. Thousands of Boycott Adobe t-shirts appearing during the Fremont Sunday market (next to Adobe's office) and a well-timed call to the Seattle P.I. might be in order... Ping me directly if you're interested. I'll do a head count. From jono at microshaft.org Fri Jul 20 01:00:55 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Ashcroft in Mountain View, 20 July In-Reply-To: ; from jeme@brelin.net on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 12:50:56AM -0700 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720003236.00a49050@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <20010720010055.B64309@networkcommand.com> > > When: 11:115AM (Pacific Time), Friday, July 20 > > > > What: Attorney General News Conference > > Regarding Cybercrime > > > > Where: VeriSign Worldwide Headquarters > > 487 East Middlefield Road > > Mountain View, CA > > My question is: WHY THE HELL is the Attorney General speaking about > "cybercrime" at the headquarters to a PRIVATE CORPORATION?!? > > This corporation doesn't have the public's best interest in mind when it > makes policies and should have no more right to direct consultation with > our executives than any REAL PERSON in this country (personally, I'd argue > that it has LESS right than a real person, being a legal fiction and all). > You are right on the money with this one. Who controls your SSL Certificates? Who controls the Root Nameservers? What crypto keys are escrowed and to whom? Anyone got any other control Verisign wields or a list of the escrowed keys? The plot keeps getting thicker... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/3826a4c7/attachment.pgp From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 20 01:04:12 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Ashcroft in Mountain View, 20 July In-Reply-To: <20010720010055.B64309@networkcommand.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720003236.00a49050@mail.maden.org> <20010720010055.B64309@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <874rs82fib.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JO" == Jon O writes: JO> The plot keeps getting thicker... I suspect fluoridated tap water may be at the bottom of all of this. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 01:08:17 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattlites In-Reply-To: <01072000220103.03031@stumpy> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720010753.0660a6b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Please coordinate Seattle efforts with Neale Pickett neale@woozle.org 206-290-7309 (cell) At 12:22 AM 7/20/2001 -0700, Roger Kramer wrote: >Any fellow Seattlites on this list? > >One of Adobe's facilities is in the Fremont neighborhood of Seattle. >Thousands of Boycott Adobe t-shirts appearing during the Fremont Sunday >market (next to Adobe's office) and a well-timed call to the Seattle P.I. >might be in order... > >Ping me directly if you're interested. I'll do a head count. > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From prostoalex at hotbox.ru Fri Jul 20 01:08:49 2001 From: prostoalex at hotbox.ru (Alexander Moskalyuk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] newsflash! TV interview available Message-ID: <200107200808.f6K88nY46490@www2.mailru.com> http://www.ktnv.com/news/jul01/top0718.asp Best regards, Alexander Moskalyuk http://www.moskalyuk.com/ ICQ 44065387 From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 20 01:31:43 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Reminder to Protest Organizers Message-ID: <87u2080zo0.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Just a hint to local protest organizers: tomorrow (Friday PST) is the last work day before Monday morning. That means that your best chance of getting announcement info in front of locals on the EFF page is early in the morning. Every hour that goes by is someone who's not going to show. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From pablos at kadrevis.com Fri Jul 20 01:53:35 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] PDF cracking and accessibility Message-ID: <127043.995594015@[10.0.1.220]> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Friday, July 20, 2001 10:32 AM +0200 From: Marcus Groeber To: "nicehair@boycottadobe.com" Subject: PDF cracking and accessibility Hi "boycottadobe.com", one very interesting aspect that I came across with regards to PDF cracking: There is a rather legitimate use of such tools that seems to be often overlooked: accessibility by the disabled, especially blind people. I just recently witnessed a situation where machine-readable manuals in PDF format were inaccessible to screen reading programs for the blind because of the "no export" flag being set. Only the use of a PDF cracker (by Elcomsoft :-)) made it possible for blind users to get to the information - all this despite Adobe's ostentative commitment to accessibility. In other words, not allowing the cracking of PDF files may be a violation of the "Section 508" accessibility rules that many companies have recently scrambled to comply with... Maybe this helps. ;-) ciao marcus ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- From mosengc at qwest.net Fri Jul 20 01:07:07 2001 From: mosengc at qwest.net (Chris Moseng) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Minneapolis/St. Paul Message-ID: <3B57E6AB.182132AD@qwest.net> Just joining the list. Is anyone in the MSP area planning an event for Monday? There is an Adobe building in Arden Hills (North of Roseville, West of St. Paul, East of Minneapolis) ripe for protesting, though visiting Adobe has a sense of futility about it since they can't very well undo what they've done. A federal building in Minneapolis is an option, too. What's the scoop? -- http://www.underwhelm.org mosengc@qwest.net From pablos at kadrevis.com Fri Jul 20 01:52:00 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Doesn't make sense? In-Reply-To: <85.d519a51.28893625@aol.com> References: <85.d519a51.28893625@aol.com> Message-ID: <121334.995593920@[10.0.1.220]> Mike, Thanks for your thoughtful note, you put a lot more into it than most of the mail I've been getting. I have some of the same concerns as you and thought I should point out why my view differs slightly. Dmitry is certainly not to blame. He is employed as a programmer by Elcomsoft and has done research on eBook security and written software that makes use of his findings. All of this is legal in Russia where he lives. If someone takes issue with the distribution of this software in the U.S. they should do so with the people running the company, or the U.S. sales agent. In any case, Dmitry is the wrong target. As a member of The Shmoo Group of information security professionals, I believe in Full Disclosure Security . This is generally practiced by giving the vendor some lead time to address the security issues at hand, but in any case, the vulnerabilities must be exposed. Believe it or not, this serves everyone's best interests. Adobe and other eBook vendors have implemented childish copy protections and sold them to their customers for several thousand dollars alleging that they can protect their content. Those customers have been swindled. By exposing the truth about eBook security, Dmitry does a service to everyone who uses it. Adobe should take this to heart and improve the security of their product. I understand that as a shareware author, putting more effort into copy protection is not economical for you. It is true that copy protection is a losing battle in a war of escalation. You cannot except by constantly raising the bar. I'd suggest this is one reason that shareware exists, for the authors who are not going to play that game. Shareware doesn't need copy protection, because the business model is built on users sharing the software. Unfortunately, this business model has not sufficiently rewarded shareware developers for their efforts. At the same time, Adobe's business model hase more than rewared them for their dismal efforts. Remember, eBook is a product sold specifically for security features. The authors who create books that are supposed to be protected by eBook are the ones taking a loss. Additionally, as Americans, we take a loss when we give up crucial freedoms such as fair use to protect a fleeting business opportunity such as copyright under the DMCA. Thanks again, Pablos Kadrevis. --On Friday, July 20, 2001 3:22 AM -0400 "Worldlist@aol.com" wrote: > I've read about the matter. And if he had been a real security expert. He > would have told Adobe what he did in the first place and shown them their > mistake. Contracted out to Adobe as security. If they were not > interested. Then he should have moved on to something else. Or at best, > just shown his peers the skills he had learned, and applied. And not > distributed the crack on CD's to all of his peers to enjoy for free. > People seem to think that programs should be free for the taking, and the > poor mans, or companies work shouldn't be rewarded. And as being a small > shareware author myself, I tell you, it is so frustrating when someone > cracks my programs. I have so many bills, so many responsibilities to my > family, and when this happens it just breaks my heart. Now I know he is > a great programmer-engineer, and should be very proud of his work and > want to show it off. But the tit for tat battle between his company and > Adobe is not an honorable thing to me. He is trying to circumvent their > hard work more as a Samurai then a security expert. > Anyway that's my two cents. Oh, why I choose the nice side. Because I > think you guys are the real heroes. Standing up for your friend like you > have is very Admirable! > Right or wrong ... Cheers! > > Mike O'Rourke -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Jul 20 01:53:19 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] newsflash! TV interview available In-Reply-To: <200107200808.f6K88nY46490@www2.mailru.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Alexander Moskalyuk wrote: > http://www.ktnv.com/news/jul01/top0718.asp For the benefit of those who don't want to deal with the quirks of KTNV's flash interface and/or have a difficulty understanding Russian accents, here's a transcript. Needless to say, all material below is (c)2001 by KTNV, and you should probably go to their site before reading this and click some banners anyway just to be fair to the one media source that actually managed to get access to Dmitriy directly. [FYI: I took the liberty of taking a couple of phrases that were particularly hard to understand in English, translating them back to Russian verbatim, and putting the appropriate English idiomatic equivalent in brackets; pauses and such preserved to the best of my abilities] ++++++++++++++++TRANSCRIPT++++++++++++++ DS: They just uh produce some software which is not...not enough good ["good enough" -AF] and well small Russian company prove that it's not good, they take some measures to shut up our company. And...and during my researches, I found that uh many solutions for e-book...electronic books processing and distribution are insecure, while companies that provide such solutions claims that solutions are very...very secure and reliable for publishers. And uh some program was developed which demonstrates some flaws...security flaws in solutions in different e-book systems, not only Adobe but some others. And uh that's all. And that was enough for Adobe to start action against our company. But the program exists and it can do that she do ["it does what it does" -AF]. And so uh there is a real proof of insecurity of e-book systems. CJ: Why are you doing this? You know it's hurting another company. Why are you doing it? You... Obviously you must know it's illegal. Why. Did you do this? It's illegal... DS: It's not illegal in Russia, and I am working in Russia. I am not a company chief, I am just a programmer. I work for my company and I do that work that I am...that I am asked for. And uh when I develop this program I were in Russia and under Russian law and American law can't be applied to me anyway. And after that company where I am working decided to distribute the program, but I am not a distributor, I am just a programmer. So ... so the distribution is not my care ["is not my responsibility" -AF]. So... CJ: Did you know that it was illegal in the United States? DS: I am not sure that providing some ... some facts about insecurity of other systems is illegal, and that's what all I do. CJ: They're calling it copyright . DS: I... I just wrote the program to demonstrate security flaws, it's not for copyright violation. CJ: And a lot of people are saying that the law that started this is very controversial. Do you think it will stand up in court? Do you think you will get off? DS: I hope I will be get off. I, uh, do nothing illegal. +++++++++++++++++END+OF+TRANSCRIPT+++++++++++++ -- Alex Fabrikant alexf at hkn.berkeley.edu From pablos at kadrevis.com Fri Jul 20 02:04:40 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interesting statement from Elcomsoft In-Reply-To: <200107200712.AAA20122@shell3.ba.best.com> References: <200107200712.AAA20122@shell3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <166951.995594680@[10.0.1.220]> This may be a poor choice for the company to make as it could be construed as blackmail. I'll leave it to the EFF lawyers to advise Elcomsoft on this. pablos. --On Friday, July 20, 2001 12:12 AM -0700 Ethan Straffin wrote: > This sentence from caught my eye: > > "In addition, we would like to state our intention to publish the sources > of our software in the Internet, and do our best to make them available to > everyone all over the world if Adobe Systems continues to pursue us." > > Ethan > -- > "The salvation of mankind lies only in making everything the concern of > all." -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From bryan at bcpub.com Thu Jul 19 22:28:54 2001 From: bryan at bcpub.com (Bryan Dumm) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Defense.... Message-ID: <200107200929.FAA27091@jerry.bcpub.com> Howdy, Just curious on the possible defenses for sklyarov? In a url mentioned earlier(cleaned my mail :( ), there was a page that had screenshots of the program. They also started to make the argument that Elcomsoft is the real copyright holder, and that sklyarov is not. This was shown with sklyarov being credited in one version and then the next version did not have the sklyarov credit. Also the about box did not have a credit to him, and this was all done before the conference. I don't know if it was done before the FBI investigated. Is this a possible defense? What about with his public interview saying something along the lines of "DS: It's not illegal in Russia, and I am working in Russia. I am not a company chief, I am just a programmer. I work for my company and I do that work that I am...that I am asked for. And uh when I develop this program I were in Russia and under Russian law and American law can't be applied to me anyway. And after that company where I am working decided to distribute the program, but I am not a distributor, I am just a programmer. So ... so the distribution is not my care ["is not my responsibility" -AF]. So..." Opinions? Wouldn't the recipient of the money also be a possible defense? ie company receives money not sklyarov? This is the only leverage the FBI had right, the money exchange? ie it gave them jurisdiction? Or what about if he did make it, which is not illegal in Russia, but Elcomsoft made the money? Bryan From jason at d13.com Fri Jul 20 02:34:03 2001 From: jason at d13.com (jason@d13.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Southern California? Message-ID: <20010720023403.A21326@d13.com> Anybody on this list in Southern California? I think a protest is in order. At one time there was a small adobe office in Irvine, http://www.educause.edu/memdir/corp-profiles/30880.html The Federal building in West LA or the Federal Court in downtown LA would also be good places to show support for Dmitri. From adobedemonstrator at hotmail.com Fri Jul 20 02:40:38 2001 From: adobedemonstrator at hotmail.com (Adobe Demonstrator) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Director Robert Sedgewick contact info Message-ID: On the Adobe Board of Directors, our most likely supporter will probably be Robert Sedgewick, a Computer Science Professor at Princeton University. He is listed in their directory: Robert Sedgewick Department of Computer Science Princeton University Princeton, NJ 08544 email: rs@cs.Princeton.EDU telephone: 609-258-4345 homepage: http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~rs/ Free Sklyarov! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From prostoalex at hotbox.ru Fri Jul 20 02:41:52 2001 From: prostoalex at hotbox.ru (Alexander Moskalyuk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] idea for San Jose protesters Message-ID: <200107200941.f6K9fql78052@www3.mailru.com> I was going through my picture collection and when I was in San Jose I took several pics by the Adobe building, since it was right across the street from the hotel. Anyway, right in front of the Adobe building there is quite an ugly sculpture. http://moskalyuk.com/img/idf/013.htm Regardless of its artistic beauty, could that be used for something like a big sign? Before Monday could someone do a really big sign with Free Dmitry slogan and BoycottAdobe.com? That would (a) turn the attention of press, (b) turn the attention of the Adobe employees, (c) turn the attention of people in San Jose Convention Center, and there is constantly a tech conference going there (I might be wrong on this, though). Best regards, Alexander Moskalyuk http://www.moskalyuk.com/ ICQ 44065387 From prostoalex at hotbox.ru Fri Jul 20 02:50:01 2001 From: prostoalex at hotbox.ru (Alexander Moskalyuk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] idea for San Jose protesters Message-ID: <200107200950.f6K9o1q78539@www3.mailru.com> > Hmmm... is the sculpture on Adobe's property ? > > - Derek Technically, I think, it is. Although if you walk on the sidewalk and are free to do it, that's where sculpture is, so it might be city property. Best regards, Alexander Moskalyuk http://www.moskalyuk.com/ ICQ 44065387 From crism at maden.org Fri Jul 20 02:57:14 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] idea for San Jose protesters In-Reply-To: <200107200950.f6K9o1q78539@www3.mailru.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720025536.00a52ae0@mail.maden.org> At 02:50 20-07-2001, Alexander Moskalyuk wrote: > > Hmmm... is the sculpture on Adobe's property ? > > > > - Derek > >Technically, I think, it is. Although if you walk on >the sidewalk and are free to do it, that's where >sculpture is, so it might be city property. The Adobe building is not rectangular. The entryway is set back; even though the area in front of it is paved contiguously with the sidewalk, it is most likely private property. Hanging a banner on the statue or otherwise interfering with it could well be used as grounds for a vandalism arrest - charges probably wouldn't be brought, but it would be sufficient to break up the protest. I'd stick with hand-held signs. -Chris -- "You will find that the State is the kind of organization which, though it does big things badly, does small things badly too." - J.K. Galbraith === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From igor at locosun.com Fri Jul 20 03:01:05 2001 From: igor at locosun.com (igor@locosun.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Sklyarov meets Copyright, East meats West Message-ID: <3B580161.37AEDD7@locosun.com> Dear Peter, I'm greatly disappointed by the article http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=177 you posted on planetbook.com (which otherwise provides a good coverage of the story so far). The article is full of speculations about "Eastern mentality" and contains a number of factual errors. The saddest of them all is a fact that Dmitry is referred as a "hacker who raised from the rudimentary and relatively low-key "Here's a neat little cracking program I've posted" profile" to declaring "a alliance along with the West Coast technos against software tyranny". I have known Dmitry for about 10 years. Dmitry's an extremely talented researcher working at one the best Russian Universities (Bauman Moscow State Technical University) as well as a Senior Cryptoanalyst (his official position) for Elcomsoft. He has been known as a lawful citizen who is supporting his wife and two children. He has never had any connections with any hackers/crackers groups as nor he has ever participated in any illegal activities. As I believe, his appearance at this year's DefCon conference was based on his natural for any researcher desire to share his discoveries with the world. The controversy over the program developed and distributed by Elcomsoft which lead to Dmitry's arrest should not be used as a sufficient ground for a criminal prosecution of an individual. As far as I know there is no precedence of that nature, in fact, quite opposite: e.g. during the recent case related to copyright infringement involved Napster no Napster's employees were arrested as the case was settled between the companies not via imprisoning the employees. To sum up: -- Dmitry has not solely developed nor distributed or sold the controversial software his was arrested for, therefore the issue should be resolved between Adobe Inc and Elcomsoft(developer and distributor of the product) and not by imprisoning a security expert. -- Dmitry's research underlines certain weaknesses of one of the products of Adobe Inc. Arresting him for announcing the results of this work is equivalent of arresting tv reporters from a car reviewing program for discovering that an alarm/immobiliser does not work as promised by the manufacturer. I would appreciate it very much if you can help to draw public attention to the fact that Dmitry is NOT a HACKER/CRACKER (in common terms) but an exceptional SECURITY EXPERT and help him to return to his wife Oksana, son Egor (2.5 year)and daughter Polina (3 months). Thank you, Igor Drokov From kyhwana at world-net.co.nz Fri Jul 20 03:37:51 2001 From: kyhwana at world-net.co.nz (Daniel Richards) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Free Dmitri PDF. In-Reply-To: <166951.995594680@[10.0.1.220]> References: <200107200712.AAA20122@shell3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <3B58B2BF.3866.20B66EE@localhost> I spotted this on the adobe forums. http://quadium.net/random/free_dmitri.pdf Anyone else notice the irony? Daniel Richards - http://leopard.osoal.org.nz/~kyhwana/ PGP Pub key: http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/DanielRPubKey.asc Fingerprint: 416D 4027 D635 AF51 F2BF 60DF 4D94 F7A0 9893 2848 From soy at mediaone.net Fri Jul 20 04:37:23 2001 From: soy at mediaone.net (soy) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Los Angeles Protest - Any information? Message-ID: <001b01c11110$57b7d960$0200a8c0@soy> I live in west los angeles and am wondering if there is any way I could help protest this disgracefull action taken by Adobe. Please, if anything is being aranged or if anyone is interested. Give me an email! My address is: Soy@mediaone.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/22711b27/attachment.htm From ld at upt.org Fri Jul 20 04:38:19 2001 From: ld at upt.org (ld@upt.org) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Los Angeles Protest - Any information? In-Reply-To: <001b01c11110$57b7d960$0200a8c0@soy> Message-ID: I live in Phoenix, Arizona, and from what I've seen so far there isn't a protest going on here. But for what it's worth I've done my part so far by donating funds (by purchasing stuff from the boycottadobe store) and also, I finally became a member of the EFF. Aside from writing my congressmen I feel i've done my part :-) Oh, and I also wrote a nasty scathing letter to all the brass at Adobe. Like they are even gonna read it, but oh well. + --_____________________________________________________________________-- + | | Lane Davis No man is an island, but if you take a bunch | | | | of dead guys and tie them together, they make | | | | Phone: 602-722-1200 a pretty good raft. | | + --_____________________________________________________________________-- + From pschenk at chevalet.net Fri Jul 20 04:53:01 2001 From: pschenk at chevalet.net (Penelope Schenk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] silly slogan idea Message-ID: <049701c11112$9a4c9c00$6901a8c0@galoot> Adobe: Don't let people ROT-13 in jail! Penny Schenk Jamaica Plain, MA pschenk@chevalet.net www.chevalet.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/41cefde7/attachment.html From sween at modelm.org Fri Jul 20 05:10:03 2001 From: sween at modelm.org (sween) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] adjust dem der headers people Message-ID: Ok folks, this is a Nick Moffitt sponsored MTA, so adjust them X-Headers: X-message-flag: Boycott Adobe, Free Dmitry Skylarov! -- --- -sween | M | http://www.modelm.org --- "force feedback computing since 1984." From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Jul 20 05:13:35 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] 400 subscribers; demonstration publicity Message-ID: <20010720051335.R32403@zork.net> I'm pleased to announce that this mailing list has now reached 400 subscribers. I hope the high volume of list traffic is not too intimidating; I'm pretty confident that things will settle down a bit once Mr. Sklyarov is transferred and arraigned and once his legal counsel situation is clear. EFF has undertaken some heroic publicity efforts to let people know about the demonstration at Adobe on Monday, and the parallel events. Special thanks are due to Will Doherty, Stanton McCandlish, and the other EFF staff who got a very professional alert and media release out quickly. Alert (for prospective participants): http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html Media release (for journalists): http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010719_eff_sklyarov_pr.html The EFF has already submitted the release to its press list, so it is probably not necessary for you to send it to newspapers (or radio or TV stations). The EFF press list is, according to Will, extremely extensive. If you personally know newspaper reporters or other journalists who cover technology, politics, Bay Area events (or local events in the place where you are), please do let these reporters know about what's happening. (If you are a co-ordinator for an area, please do be honest and up front with reporters about how many people you expect; I'd hate to see a reporter expect 100 people at some Adobe branch office and then write about how only 8 people showed up.) If you are on mailing lists or if you read news web sites where this announcement is relevant and where it has not yet appeared, _please submit it_. Possible constituencies of interest could include electronic publishing and desktop publishing, legal, Linux and free software, programmers, civil liberties, computer security, and academic communities, and whatever angle drew you here in the first place. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From stefan at sels.com Fri Jul 20 05:34:30 2001 From: stefan at sels.com (Stefan Sels) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] german domains Message-ID: <48015.213.168.86.19.995632470.squirrel@www.sels.com> i gonna register some german domains, when i find the login page of my domain provider. does anybody know what the current status is ? -is he still in jail ? -does the EFF pay his lawyer (who?) -what do they sue him for ? How can we support him (or how should we treat adobe...) -- MfG / regards Stefan Sels --- Windows is the AOL of operating systems GPG/PGP key http://stefan.sels.com/pgp.asc From krburger at burger-family.org Fri Jul 20 04:46:26 2001 From: krburger at burger-family.org (Kenneth Burger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] logistical stuff. References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010719170524.00c624b0@mail.paultopia.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20010719233851.03909700@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <00bf01c11111$9b91e2b0$0800a8c0@balthazar> Well, I will be holding a planning meeting tonight at Denny's on 12 mile and Mound in Warren. The address is: 6004 E. 12 Mile Rd, Warren, MI 48092 The reason I chose this location is because this is where the Warren activist coalition meets as well so it seems rather fitting. I will also be handing out flyers and probably carrying a sign occassionally in front of the Federal Building tomorrow from probably 10-whenever, at 231 W. Laffayette Boulevard Detroit, MI (not sure what the ZIP code is) Please invite everyone to attend this planning meeting. It will start at 8:00PM which gives everyone time to get off work. If no one shows I will still be at the Federal Building tomorrow and I encourage everyone who can attend to come out and join me. FYI, my contact info is as follows: Kenneth R. Burger (810)977-1674 krburger@burger-family.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Doherty" To: "Kenneth Burger" Cc: "will Doherty" Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:40 AM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] logistical stuff. > Hey Kenneth, > > If we can list you as a contact person for a Detroit protest > on the EFF website, then you will likely hear from a number > of people who will help you make the protest happen.. > can you please let me know if you would like > to be listed right away and how to list you > (name, email, phone)? > > We are planning to send an alert out to 27,000 people > later this evening, so please get back to me right away > if you possibly can. > > Thanks, > > Will Doherty > Online Activist / Media Relations > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > Web http://www.eff.org > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > ------- > > At 10:21 PM 7/19/2001 -0400, Kenneth Burger wrote: > >I'd like to organize one in Detroit, but I don't even know if there's a > >federal building there anymore. Plus I have no experience with this sort of > >thing, but if anyone's interested in getting together to do some sort of > >protest in the Metro-Detroit area, please > >drop me a line. > > From karl.deabrew at binarything.com Fri Jul 20 05:47:38 2001 From: karl.deabrew at binarything.com (Karl De Abrew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] german domains Message-ID: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F621@mail.roundtable.com.au> > does anybody know what the current status is ? See Vladimir's report @ http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=179 -Karl From crism at maden.org Fri Jul 20 06:13:31 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's presentation in HTML Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720061220.00ab64e0@mail.maden.org> ... can be found at . Please don't link to it yet, though, as I've submitted it to Dave Touretzky's gallery () and would prefer to make that the canonical location. -crism -- "You will find that the State is the kind of organization which, though it does big things badly, does small things badly too." - J.K. Galbraith === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From goran at kirra.net Fri Jul 20 06:25:25 2001 From: goran at kirra.net (Goran Thyni) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda In-Reply-To: ; from free-sklyarov@happycool.com on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 04:59:26PM -0700 References: <87zoa0a4rk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010720152525.A508@kirra.net> But, outside USA the symbol for many people represent not stalinist Sovjet Union, but the struggle against oppression and feudalism. The "Hammer and Sickle" represent the struggle of workers and farmers. Since in this case we fight misconduct of big business the symbol creates confusion, especially since the victim is Russian. Many people support this cause, use of this symbol is hinting a wider polical agenda which will alienate supporters. best regards, -- G?ran Thyni Sweden On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 04:59:26PM -0700, Victor Piterbarg wrote: > I think the symbol is quite fitting. The way I interpret the symbol is that > Adobe is identified with the old Soviet Regime. The Soviet Regime is in turn > identified with opression. Therefore, Adobe + Hammer/Sickle = opressive > regime. > > -Victor > > -----Original Message----- > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Klepht > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 4:17 PM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda > > > >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt writes: > > >> Personally I think the T-Shirts are nice, the use of the > >> Russian symbology would turn many away. > > NM> Please, it is Soviet symbology, not Russian. > > ...unfortunately conflated in the mind of the American public. > > The fact that Sklyarov is Russian confuses the message of this symbol > somewhat. It might be useful (although no longer timely) to come up > with a symbol of oppression that is not so loaded with Cold War > symbolism. > > For example... uh... a boot? > > My guess is that the horse is out of the barn on this one, though. > > ~Klepht > > -- > klepht@eleutheria.org > http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From stefan at sels.com Fri Jul 20 06:25:42 2001 From: stefan at sels.com (Stefan Sels) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's presentation in HTML In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720061220.00ab64e0@mail.maden.org> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720061220.00ab64e0@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <48179.213.168.86.19.995635542.squirrel@www.sels.com> i made a copy in germany ! http://koeln.ccc.de/~stefan/dmitry/ds-defcon.html > ... can be found at . > > Please don't link to it yet, though, as I've submitted it to Dave > Touretzky's gallery ( >) and would prefer to make that the canonical location. > > -crism > -- > "You will find that the State is the kind of organization which, though > it does big things badly, does small things badly too." - J.K. > Galbraith === Freelance Text Nerd: === > PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- MfG / regards Stefan Sels --- Windows is the AOL of operating systems Adobe is not a nice company : http://www.boycottadobe.com/ GPG/PGP key http://stefan.sels.com/pgp.asc From market at giprogor.ru Fri Jul 20 06:30:27 2001 From: market at giprogor.ru (=?koi8-r?B?88XSx8XKICDgLiDpzNjJzg==?=) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov+SMI Message-ID: <004f01c11120$242ae0a0$0100a8c0@ilin> ???????! ????????? ???? ? ??????? ?????? ?????????? ?????? ???????? ???????????? ??????? ? ??????????? ???????? ???????. ?????? (?? ??????!) ????? , ??? ??????????, ? ????? ????? ????????? ???????? www.russ.ru, ?, ????????, ???????? ?? ????????????. ???? ?????? ("Adobe vs Elcomsoft: ??????????? ????" ) ??????????? ?? ?????? http://www.russ.ru/politics/west/20010720.html . ???? ????????? ????? ??????, ??? ????????? ???? ??????????, ?????? ? ????????????? ????? ????????????????. ? ?????????, ?????? ?. ?????, ?????????? ?? mailto:market@giprogor.ru ICQ#: 23262204 P.S.: ??????????? ??????????? ???????? ???????? ????? ????????? ?????????? ?????? ?????? ????????? ?? ?????? http://www.russ.ru/netcult/nasnet/20010719.html . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/0b3dfdd9/attachment.htm From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Fri Jul 20 06:44:53 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] demonstration in Moscow References: <20010720051335.R32403@zork.net> Message-ID: <020a01c11122$2b6368e0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, Seth David Schoen! > EFF has undertaken some heroic publicity efforts to let people know > about the demonstration at Adobe on Monday, and the parallel events. How can I distribute a word about press-conference in Moscow, that be in 24h in the most quick way? Who support EFF web site -- I think, this deserves to be under "Moscow" label. - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ == == Hi, All! As it was announced before, tommorrow, June, 20, at Saturday, 17:00 will be press-conference. The topic is arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov, Adove vs ElcomSoft case and comeing worldwide public protest actions, that will be at Monday. The place of press-conference was given by "Project OGI" company, thank you: Address: Moscow, Russia. Ul. Patnickaja 29/8 First floor, a hall near bookstore. The way: metro Novokuznetskaja or Tretjakovskaja On the courner of Patnickaja and Klementovskij pereulok you'll see Pizza Hat. In the same building, entrance from Klementovskij per., named caffe "Pirogi". References: 229-5489 Karina Kabanova (place) 162-4767 I.V. Vasilyev (press-conference) After press-conference, at 18:00 oranization metting of future action participants will be hold. - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From dep21 at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 20 06:48:24 2001 From: dep21 at yahoo.co.uk (d p) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] boycottadobe.co.uk registered! Message-ID: <20010720134824.13423.qmail@web4305.mail.yahoo.com> The domain: boycottadobe.co.uk has been registered! As soon as the name servers get sorted, I'll have it redirecting to boycottadobe.com - unless anyone out there in the UK wants to start getting some UK-related pages sorted out? I don't have time for that, but I'm willing to get the domain pointing wherever it needs to... dp. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Jul 20 06:53:07 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: demonstration in Moscow In-Reply-To: <020a01c11122$2b6368e0$0100a8c0@sharhan>; from ath@limm.mgimo.ru on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 05:44:53PM +0400 References: <20010720051335.R32403@zork.net> <020a01c11122$2b6368e0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: <20010720065307.D32403@zork.net> Ilya V. Vasilyev writes: > Hi, Seth David Schoen! > > > EFF has undertaken some heroic publicity efforts to let people know > > about the demonstration at Adobe on Monday, and the parallel events. > > How can I distribute a word about press-conference > in Moscow, that be in 24h in the most quick way? You should send the announcement to reporters in the area, preferably by FAX. If you don't have a press list, you can buy newspapers and magazines and see if they print a FAX number for the editors or reporters. Also, you can call radio stations and TV stations and ask for a FAX number for announcements. No doubt you should send them FAXes in Russian instead of in English. If other people on this list know media outlets in or around Moscow, please pass this information along to them. > Who support EFF web site -- I think, this deserves to be > under "Moscow" label. Write to Will Doherty ; he's on this list but there have been a lot of messages here recently. > == == > Hi, All! > > As it was announced before, tommorrow, June, 20, at Saturday, > 17:00 will be press-conference. The topic is arrest of > Dmitry Sklyarov, Adove vs ElcomSoft case and comeing > worldwide public protest actions, that will be at > Monday. > > The place of press-conference was given by "Project OGI" > company, thank you: > > Address: Moscow, Russia. Ul. Patnickaja 29/8 > First floor, a hall near bookstore. > > The way: metro Novokuznetskaja or Tretjakovskaja > On the courner of Patnickaja and > Klementovskij pereulok you'll see > Pizza Hat. In the same building, > entrance from Klementovskij per., > named caffe "Pirogi". > > References: 229-5489 Karina Kabanova (place) > 162-4767 I.V. Vasilyev (press-conference) > > After press-conference, at 18:00 oranization metting > of future action participants will be hold. Sounds good. I wish I could make it. :-) -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From danny at spesh.com Fri Jul 20 07:55:12 2001 From: danny at spesh.com (Danny O'Brien) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mueller and Ashcroft in Silicon Valley today In-Reply-To: <015501c1109b$3bfd0ee0$6501a8c0@rmsnew>; from rms@privacyfoundation.org on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 05:39:05PM -0400 References: <015501c1109b$3bfd0ee0$6501a8c0@rmsnew> Message-ID: <20010720075512.A3174@spesh.com> Hmm: On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 05:39:05PM -0400, Richard M. Smith wrote: > Hi, > > Looks like President Bush is going to have a political problem with the > Sklyarov affair. The case against Sklyarov is being spearheaded by the > US Attorney's Office of the Northern District of California. The > director of this office is Robert S. Mueller, President Bush's > nomination to the head up the FBI. Given the very questionable > circumstances of the Sklyarov case, it certainly doesn't reflect very > well on the US Attorney's Office and Mr. Mueller. > And: On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 12:34:36AM -0700, Christopher R. Maden wrote: > Did anyone else notice this on cryptome.org? > > > 19 July 2001: > The Department of Justice has sent out today an embargoed announcement of > US Attorney General John Ashcroft's appearance tomorrow in Mountain View, > CA, to speak on cybercrime: > > ----- > Department of Justice > For Planning Purposes Only - Not For Release AG > July 19, 2001 (202) 616-2777 > www.usdoj.gov TDD (202) 514-1888 > In CA: Lani Miller, (703) 395-4484 > > Washinton, DC -- Attorney General John Ashcroft will visit Northern > California tomorrow, Friday, July 20, to discuss cybercrime issues. > > When: 11:115AM (Pacific Time), Friday, July 20 > > What: Attorney General News Conference > Regarding Cybercrime > > Where: VeriSign Worldwide Headquarters > 487 East Middlefield Road > Mountain View, CA > > > Does anyone know if this will be open to the public? The CNN article at [1] implies that Robert S. Mueller will be joining Ashcroft at this news conference. His confirmation hearing is due on July 30. Journalists based in Silicon Valley might like to kill two birds with one stone, and quiz both of them on the Sklyarov case. d. [1] "Ashcroft said he would meet with Mueller on a trip Friday to San Francisco where Mueller is U.S. attorney for northern California." "Mueller is expected to join Ashcroft for a tour the same day of an unidentified Silicon Valley firm where the attorney general is scheduled to announce an electronic crime initiative." From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Jul 20 07:16:58 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Alan Cox resigns from conference committee, urges boycott Message-ID: <20010720071658.H32403@zork.net> ... for those who aren't Linux folks, Alan Cox is the second most prominent developer on the Linux kernel, after Linus Torvalds. He lives in the United Kingdom. http://lwn.net/daily/alan-quits-als.php3 -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From robertl1 at home.com Fri Jul 20 07:25:00 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] OSCON San Diego action Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720072119.03214e80@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> The Open Source Convention will be meeting in San Diego this next week JUly 23-27. Since this is perhaps the largest single gathering of Free/Open Source software people anywhere we should certainly plan some action in response to the Sklyarov Affair. Thoughts? Bob La Quey Free Dmitry http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From rms at privacyfoundation.org Fri Jul 20 07:22:46 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Can anyone meet Mueller and Ashcroft in Silicon Valley today? In-Reply-To: <20010720075512.A3174@spesh.com> Message-ID: <002201c11127$73347920$6501a8c0@tiac.net> It would be great if some folks could be at Verisign this morning when Ashcroft arrives. The right message to deliver "Mueller Free Sklyarov Now!". Another great sign for the occascion "Stop Adobe's Cybercrime!" ;-) Richard > Department of Justice > For Planning Purposes Only - Not For Release AG > July 19, 2001 (202) 616-2777 > www.usdoj.gov TDD (202) 514-1888 > In CA: Lani Miller, (703) 395-4484 > > Washinton, DC -- Attorney General John Ashcroft will visit Northern > California tomorrow, Friday, July 20, to discuss cybercrime issues. > > When: 11:115AM (Pacific Time), Friday, July 20 > > What: Attorney General News Conference > Regarding Cybercrime > > Where: VeriSign Worldwide Headquarters > 487 East Middlefield Road > Mountain View, CA > > > Does anyone know if this will be open to the public? The CNN article at [1] implies that Robert S. Mueller will be joining Ashcroft at this news conference. His confirmation hearing is due on July 30. Journalists based in Silicon Valley might like to kill two birds with one stone, and quiz both of them on the Sklyarov case. d. [1] "Ashcroft said he would meet with Mueller on a trip Friday to San Francisco where Mueller is U.S. attorney for northern California." "Mueller is expected to join Ashcroft for a tour the same day of an unidentified Silicon Valley firm where the attorney general is scheduled to announce an electronic crime initiative." _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 07:32:57 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Minneapolis/St. Paul In-Reply-To: <3B57E6AB.182132AD@qwest.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720072956.02d9e100@pop3.norton.antivirus> Hey Chris, If you are willing to act as a contact person for an MSP protest, that is the fastest way to get people organized to participate. We can publicize your info and people will contact you to organize and participate in the protest. If you want to act as a contact person, please let us know what name, email, and telephone number to use. We will assist later today with sample media releases, sample protest leaflets and signs, and sample slogans to chant at the protest. The next most important thing is to pick the date/time and location. An Adobe office or a federal building are preferable and this Monday, July 23, from 11am - 1pm would match up with the rest of the protests. Please let us know right away if you can be a contact person for the protest in your city. Free Dmitry, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 03:07 AM 7/20/2001 -0500, Chris Moseng wrote: >Just joining the list. Is anyone in the MSP area planning an event for >Monday? > >There is an Adobe building in Arden Hills (North of Roseville, West of >St. Paul, East of Minneapolis) ripe for protesting, though visiting >Adobe has a sense of futility about it since they can't very well undo >what they've done. A federal building in Minneapolis is an option, too. > >What's the scoop? > >-- >http://www.underwhelm.org >mosengc@qwest.net > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 07:35:22 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] OSCON San Diego action In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720072119.03214e80@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720073409.02bc2cc8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Hey Bob, I have cc'ed the two EFF people I know of who are attending OSC... if you all can have a strategy session on this idea, EFF is interested in participating. Free Dmitry, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 07:25 AM 7/20/2001 -0700, Bob La Quey wrote: >The Open Source Convention will be meeting in San Diego >this next week JUly 23-27. Since this is perhaps the largest >single gathering of Free/Open Source software people anywhere >we should certainly plan some action in response to the >Sklyarov Affair. > >Thoughts? > > >Bob La Quey Free Dmitry http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From noring at olagrande.net Fri Jul 20 07:36:55 2001 From: noring at olagrande.net (noring@olagrande.net) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Proposal -- Start an Online Petition Drive Regarding Sklyarov Arrest Message-ID: <200107201436.JAA13553@og1.olagrande.net> [Repost to free-sklyarov for one last time...if no groundswell of interest I will withdraw my proposal.] Hello, As one who helped with the anti-CDA petition drive a few years ago which got about 130,000 signatures, I propose that we start an online petition drive concerning Sklyarov, Adobe and/or the DMCA. (I recall there being at least one web site for the purpose of running online petitions so we could use such a service or simply put a web form up somewhere -- I prefer the former.) Of course, we need to decide upon: 1) Does it make any sense to devote energy to it? 2) If so, what should be the wording of the petition statement? Who and what should it be focused towards? 3) How do we promote the petition to get the general net community interested in it and to e-sign it? Regarding 1), of course I believe it will be useful. It serves three important functions: a) It promotes awareness of the situation and the Big Picture behind it to the general net community (one result is to bring new activists into the battle, as well as the petition alone brings more news media coverage -- this happened with the anti-CDA petition), b) It provides a way for concerned citizens to do *something* (it is easy to sign a petition while for most doing anything more is difficult for whatever reason such as lack of time), and it is well-known that once a person does something, they have psychologically committed themselves to the cause, and will become more aware of this and similar civil liberties issues. c) It is a morale booster (provided the number of signatures is adequate) to those in the trenches fighting the DMCA and the prosecution of Dmitry. Of course, Dmitry himself will be very appreciative since he needs to really know a lot of people out there are on his side. Let me make it clear that the petition is not likely to change the minds of the Feds where they will decide not to prosecute Dmitry (but it will make them aware that many eyes are looking at everything they are doing -- the psychological impact on the DoJ cannot be understated), nor will it sway the courts in their future deliberations regarding Dmitry and DMCA in general (it might sway Adobe's position, though, and might even convince a few Congresspersons to take action to try to defang DMCA through legislation.) However, the benefits of a) to c) above are adequate to justify the effort, in my opinion. Regarding 2), the petition statement wording must be very carefully worded -- concise, non-conspiratorial/non-libelous and moderate in tone, must focus on the important issues, and of course to state something we "all" can agree upon, rather than trying to be too extreme. It must also convey reference sources for the interested person to look up and study the issues surrounding the DMCA before deciding to e-sign the petition. Regarding 3), we certainly need an aggressive campaign to "get out the vote". We will need a couple dozen or more core people to circulate the petition to relevant online forums/ lists/boards/newsgroups etc., and to solicit others to pass it on to their friends and so on. There are probably other ways to promote it as well (geez, if we can get Matt Drudge to report on this petition, we'd get several hundred thousand signatures from that alone!) We also need to decide what we do with all these signatures (of course, we have to ensure email address privacy in some way) once we collect them, and how to maximize the impact of what we did collect. Finally, we need to act and get this out within hours, not days, since we have momentum at the moment, and much interest, but this is fleeting, and we must strike while the iron is hot -- if anything, the petition will keep the momentum going as I observed with the CDA. Since Shari Steele at EFF is a subscriber to this list, hopefully she will weigh in with her thoughts on the pros and cons of this proposed petition drive. If EFF feels it is not a good idea, then I will go along with their view and withdraw my proposal. Jon Noring From simon.kagedal at csce.se Fri Jul 20 07:38:53 2001 From: simon.kagedal at csce.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?K=E5gedal_Simon?=) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda Message-ID: <01F1D2EE3A0BD211966508000996199D409C2F@utecmail.utec.se> Hi, Nice to see other Swedes on the list. (I was actually myself going to write a similar message, I think the use of the "hammer and sickle" is quite distasteful for many reasons. Except for the ones you mention, I would like to point out that if the idea is to associate to the Stalin regime, remember that Stalin killed millions of people. This is clearly out of proportion with what Adobe has done. Similar argument as the one RMS makes about the word "piracy": http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html ) But back to the case. What do you think could be done for Sklyarov from a Swedish point of view? (or what do people outside US do in general?) I was going to write Adobe's Swedish office and ask them to ask their bosses to drop the charges. I couldn't find an appropriate address to write to on the www.adobe.se pages though, only some PR guy, maybe that will do? I did notify the Swedish section of Amnesty International on their web page. I wish everybody the best of luck in protests and I really hope Dmitry Sklyarov is set free really soon. This is horrible. Simon. -----Original message----- Fr?n: Goran Thyni [mailto:goran@kirra.net] Skickat: den 20 juli 2001 15:25 Till: free-sklyarov@zork.net Kopia: Victor Piterbarg ?mne: Re: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda But, outside USA the symbol for many people represent not stalinist Sovjet Union, but the struggle against oppression and feudalism. The "Hammer and Sickle" represent the struggle of workers and farmers. Since in this case we fight misconduct of big business the symbol creates confusion, especially since the victim is Russian. Many people support this cause, use of this symbol is hinting a wider polical agenda which will alienate supporters. best regards, -- G?ran Thyni Sweden From seth.johnson at realmeasures.dyndns.org Fri Jul 20 07:33:36 2001 From: seth.johnson at realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda Message-ID: Goran's right. The symbol resonates a certain way in the post-Reagan (and -Thatcher) "West." But it's important to remember that we're on a global stage. And Sklyarov's Russian. If it's "merely" a symbol, then at least groups working together on this should present other logos and let the use of this logo per se be just one of a number of logos different people are using. Seth Johnson -----Original Message----- From: Goran Thyni Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:25:25 +0200 > But, > > outside USA the symbol for many people represent not stalinist Sovjet > Union, > but the struggle against oppression and feudalism. > The "Hammer and Sickle" represent the struggle of workers and > farmers. > > Since in this case we fight misconduct of big business the symbol > creates confusion, especially since the victim is Russian. > > Many people support this cause, use of this symbol is hinting a > wider polical agenda which will alienate supporters. > > best regards, > -- > Göran Thyni > Sweden From goran at kirra.net Fri Jul 20 07:49:04 2001 From: goran at kirra.net (Goran Thyni) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda In-Reply-To: <01F1D2EE3A0BD211966508000996199D409C2F@utecmail.utec.se>; from simon.kagedal@csce.se on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 04:38:53PM +0200 References: <01F1D2EE3A0BD211966508000996199D409C2F@utecmail.utec.se> Message-ID: <20010720164904.A691@kirra.net> I wrote a messsage in this web form: http://www.adobe.se/misc/annat.html No answer yet (2 days). I think people especially Adobe customers should put pressure on the local Adobe offices. Search for contacts adresses/form on your local site: http://www.adobe./ regards, -- G?ran Thyni Kiruna, Sweden On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 04:38:53PM +0200, K?gedal Simon wrote: > Hi, > > Nice to see other Swedes on the list. > > (I was actually myself going to write a similar message, I think > the use of the "hammer and sickle" is quite distasteful for many > reasons. Except for the ones you mention, I would like to point > out that if the idea is to associate to the Stalin regime, > remember that Stalin killed millions of people. This is clearly > out of proportion with what Adobe has done. Similar argument as > the one RMS makes about the word "piracy": > > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html ) > > But back to the case. > > What do you think could be done for Sklyarov from a Swedish point > of view? (or what do people outside US do in general?) > > I was going to write Adobe's Swedish office and ask them to ask > their bosses to drop the charges. I couldn't find an appropriate > address to write to on the www.adobe.se pages though, only some PR > guy, maybe that will do? > > I did notify the Swedish section of Amnesty International on their > web page. > > I wish everybody the best of luck in protests and I really hope > Dmitry Sklyarov is set free really soon. This is horrible. > > Simon. > > -----Original message----- > Fr?n: Goran Thyni [mailto:goran@kirra.net] > Skickat: den 20 juli 2001 15:25 > Till: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Kopia: Victor Piterbarg > ?mne: Re: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda > > > But, > > outside USA the symbol for many people represent not stalinist Sovjet Union, > but the struggle against oppression and feudalism. > The "Hammer and Sickle" represent the struggle of workers and farmers. > > Since in this case we fight misconduct of big business the symbol > creates confusion, especially since the victim is Russian. > > Many people support this cause, use of this symbol is hinting a > wider polical agenda which will alienate supporters. > > best regards, > -- > G?ran Thyni > Sweden > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From robertl1 at home.com Fri Jul 20 07:56:52 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] OSCON San Diego action In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720073409.02bc2cc8@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720072119.03214e80@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720074757.0320b7a0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> This cannot be allowed to stand. We definitely want to put together an action. The only question in my mind is what/when, etc. I suggest that OSCON should throw together an immediate ad hoc panel on this issue. We will probably also want to organize efforts separately from the OSCON, which after all has an agenda of its own. As a minimum we want to find an effective way to leverage this large gathering of programmers and to help Dmitry and blast the DMCA. Just think what the American public would be saying if this was a young American programmer with a wife and two children being held by the KGB in Moscow. Shame on the USA. Shame on Adobe. At 07:35 AM 7/20/01 -0700, Will Doherty wrote: >Hey Bob, > >I have cc'ed the two EFF people I know of who are attending >OSC... if you all can have a strategy session on this idea, >EFF is interested in participating. > >Free Dmitry, > >Will Doherty >Online Activist / Media Relations >Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) >Web http://www.eff.org > >Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age >------- > >At 07:25 AM 7/20/2001 -0700, Bob La Quey wrote: >>The Open Source Convention will be meeting in San Diego >>this next week JUly 23-27. Since this is perhaps the largest >>single gathering of Free/Open Source software people anywhere >>we should certainly plan some action in response to the >>Sklyarov Affair. >> >>Thoughts? >> >> >>Bob La Quey Free Dmitry http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>free-sklyarov mailing list >>free-sklyarov@zork.net >>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov Bob La Quey From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 07:59:05 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Proposal -- Start an Online Petition Drive Regarding Sklyarov Arrest In-Reply-To: <200107201436.JAA13553@og1.olagrande.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720075644.02ce45b8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Worded as you have it below, the online petition idea is great and EFF will definitely support it and publicize it once we get petition text that works for us and the community of activists here and elsewhere (which should not be difficult!). Anyone have the cycles to draft something? Feel free to crib from the materials already on the EFF website. Keep up the amazing work! Free Dmitry, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 09:36 AM 7/20/2001 -0500, noring@olagrande.net wrote: >[Repost to free-sklyarov for one last time...if no >groundswell of interest I will withdraw my proposal.] > >Hello, > >As one who helped with the anti-CDA petition drive a few >years ago which got about 130,000 signatures, I propose >that we start an online petition drive concerning Sklyarov, >Adobe and/or the DMCA. (I recall there being at least one >web site for the purpose of running online petitions so >we could use such a service or simply put a web form up >somewhere -- I prefer the former.) > >Of course, we need to decide upon: > >1) Does it make any sense to devote energy to it? > >2) If so, what should be the wording of the petition > statement? Who and what should it be focused > towards? > >3) How do we promote the petition to get the > general net community interested in it and to > e-sign it? > > >Regarding 1), of course I believe it will be useful. It >serves three important functions: > >a) It promotes awareness of the situation and the Big > Picture behind it to the general net community (one > result is to bring new activists into the battle, as > well as the petition alone brings more news media > coverage -- this happened with the anti-CDA petition), > >b) It provides a way for concerned citizens to do > *something* (it is easy to sign a petition while > for most doing anything more is difficult for > whatever reason such as lack of time), and it is > well-known that once a person does something, > they have psychologically committed themselves > to the cause, and will become more aware of > this and similar civil liberties issues. > >c) It is a morale booster (provided the number of > signatures is adequate) to those in the trenches > fighting the DMCA and the prosecution of Dmitry. > Of course, Dmitry himself will be very appreciative > since he needs to really know a lot of people out > there are on his side. > >Let me make it clear that the petition is not likely to >change the minds of the Feds where they will decide not to >prosecute Dmitry (but it will make them aware that many eyes >are looking at everything they are doing -- the psychological >impact on the DoJ cannot be understated), nor will it sway >the courts in their future deliberations regarding Dmitry >and DMCA in general (it might sway Adobe's position, though, >and might even convince a few Congresspersons to take action >to try to defang DMCA through legislation.) However, the >benefits of a) to c) above are adequate to justify the >effort, in my opinion. > >Regarding 2), the petition statement wording must be very >carefully worded -- concise, non-conspiratorial/non-libelous >and moderate in tone, must focus on the important issues, and >of course to state something we "all" can agree upon, rather >than trying to be too extreme. It must also convey reference >sources for the interested person to look up and study the >issues surrounding the DMCA before deciding to e-sign the >petition. > >Regarding 3), we certainly need an aggressive campaign to "get >out the vote". We will need a couple dozen or more core >people to circulate the petition to relevant online forums/ >lists/boards/newsgroups etc., and to solicit others to pass >it on to their friends and so on. There are probably other >ways to promote it as well (geez, if we can get Matt Drudge >to report on this petition, we'd get several hundred thousand >signatures from that alone!) > >We also need to decide what we do with all these signatures >(of course, we have to ensure email address privacy in some >way) once we collect them, and how to maximize the impact of >what we did collect. > >Finally, we need to act and get this out within hours, not >days, since we have momentum at the moment, and much interest, >but this is fleeting, and we must strike while the iron is >hot -- if anything, the petition will keep the momentum going >as I observed with the CDA. > > >Since Shari Steele at EFF is a subscriber to this list, >hopefully she will weigh in with her thoughts on the pros >and cons of this proposed petition drive. If EFF feels >it is not a good idea, then I will go along with their >view and withdraw my proposal. > >Jon Noring From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 08:00:40 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda In-Reply-To: <01F1D2EE3A0BD211966508000996199D409C2F@utecmail.utec.se> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720075948.02b27d18@pop3.norton.antivirus> Hey, how about a protest at a location in Sweden, the US consulate or embassy perhaps? If you can act as a contact person, please let us know right away! Will Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 04:38 PM 7/20/2001 +0200, K?gedal Simon wrote: >Hi, > >Nice to see other Swedes on the list. > >(I was actually myself going to write a similar message, I think >the use of the "hammer and sickle" is quite distasteful for many >reasons. Except for the ones you mention, I would like to point >out that if the idea is to associate to the Stalin regime, >remember that Stalin killed millions of people. This is clearly >out of proportion with what Adobe has done. Similar argument as >the one RMS makes about the word "piracy": > >http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html ) > >But back to the case. > >What do you think could be done for Sklyarov from a Swedish point >of view? (or what do people outside US do in general?) > >I was going to write Adobe's Swedish office and ask them to ask >their bosses to drop the charges. I couldn't find an appropriate >address to write to on the www.adobe.se pages though, only some PR >guy, maybe that will do? > >I did notify the Swedish section of Amnesty International on their >web page. > >I wish everybody the best of luck in protests and I really hope >Dmitry Sklyarov is set free really soon. This is horrible. > >Simon. > >-----Original message----- >Fr?n: Goran Thyni [mailto:goran@kirra.net] >Skickat: den 20 juli 2001 15:25 >Till: free-sklyarov@zork.net >Kopia: Victor Piterbarg >?mne: Re: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda > > >But, > >outside USA the symbol for many people represent not stalinist Sovjet Union, >but the struggle against oppression and feudalism. >The "Hammer and Sickle" represent the struggle of workers and farmers. > >Since in this case we fight misconduct of big business the symbol >creates confusion, especially since the victim is Russian. > >Many people support this cause, use of this symbol is hinting a >wider polical agenda which will alienate supporters. > >best regards, >-- >G?ran Thyni >Sweden > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 08:06:04 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720080516.02d562c8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Agreed... after an initial guffaw, it was my reaction to the symbol as well. Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 10:33 AM 7/20/2001 -0400, Seth Johnson wrote: >Goran's right. > >The symbol resonates a certain way in the post-Reagan (and -Thatcher) >"West." But it's important to remember that we're on a global stage. >And Sklyarov's Russian. > >If it's "merely" a symbol, then at least groups working together on this >should present other logos and let the use of this logo per se be just >one of a number of logos different people are using. > >Seth Johnson > >-----Original Message----- >From: Goran Thyni >Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:25:25 +0200 > > > But, > > > > outside USA the symbol for many people represent not stalinist Sovjet > > Union, > > but the struggle against oppression and feudalism. > > The "Hammer and Sickle" represent the struggle of workers and > > farmers. > > > > Since in this case we fight misconduct of big business the symbol > > creates confusion, especially since the victim is Russian. > > > > Many people support this cause, use of this symbol is hinting a > > wider polical agenda which will alienate supporters. > > > > best regards, > > -- > > G?ran Thyni > > Sweden > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From saint_sam at yahoo.com Fri Jul 20 08:21:13 2001 From: saint_sam at yahoo.com (Sam Gray) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Librarians as allies Message-ID: <20010720152113.95614.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> I realize this is tangential to the immediate purpose of the list, which is to get Dmitry out of jail, but in the larger scheme of things, there's another large group of people who are just as mad about the DMCA, if not more so, as the geeks: librarians. (Spider Robinson said of librarians: "They're the Secret Masters of the Universe. Don't ever piss one off.") Librarians are our natural allies on this issue, and it's not too late to recruit them for picket lines. Just a little something to keep in mind. ===== "They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's some kind of federal program." - George W. Bush, St. Charles, Mo., Nov. 2, 2000 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 08:22:27 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:18 2005 Subject: (Resend) Re: [free-sklyarov] OSCON San Diego action Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720082124.02b7d4e8@pop3.norton.antivirus> I am resending because I cc'ed this to the WRONG KEVIN... the correct email for Kevin at EFF is now cc'ed on this email. Will ------- Hey Bob, I have cc'ed the two EFF people I know of who are attending OSC... if you all can have a strategy session on this idea, EFF is interested in participating. Free Dmitry, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 07:25 AM 7/20/2001 -0700, Bob La Quey wrote: >The Open Source Convention will be meeting in San Diego >this next week JUly 23-27. Since this is perhaps the largest >single gathering of Free/Open Source software people anywhere >we should certainly plan some action in response to the >Sklyarov Affair. > >Thoughts? > > >Bob La Quey Free Dmitry http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From joe at artlung.com Fri Jul 20 08:34:26 2001 From: joe at artlung.com (Joe Crawford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] About San Diego Action. Message-ID: <3B584F4D.C865C7@artlung.com> I'm not going to the Open Source Convention - but I'd be interested to know if anything is happening in San Diego. Question though - was Dmitry's work open source? - Joe / on digest / (yes, in San Diego) -- ........... Joe Crawford : thinking and design about the web .... enigmatic narcissism and miscellany : http://artlung.com .... community instigator : http://WebSanDiego.org .... San Diego, California, USA .....................AAAFNRAA From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 08:41:24 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] logistical stuff. In-Reply-To: <00bf01c11111$9b91e2b0$0800a8c0@balthazar> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010719170524.00c624b0@mail.paultopia.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20010719233851.03909700@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720084028.02d43df8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Excellent! If you have flyer text or signs you can share, please email them to me so we can make them available to the other protests. Also, are you planning to do something on Monday, July 23, from 11am - 1pm? Will At 07:46 AM 7/20/2001 -0400, Kenneth Burger wrote: >Well, I will be holding a planning meeting tonight at Denny's on 12 mile and >Mound in Warren. The address is: >6004 E. 12 Mile Rd, >Warren, MI 48092 > >The reason I chose this location is because this is where the Warren >activist coalition meets as well so it seems rather fitting. I will also be >handing out flyers and probably carrying a sign occassionally in front of >the Federal Building tomorrow from probably 10-whenever, at >231 W. Laffayette Boulevard >Detroit, MI (not sure what the ZIP code is) > >Please invite everyone to attend this planning meeting. It will start at >8:00PM which gives everyone time to get off work. If no one shows I will >still be at the Federal Building tomorrow and I encourage everyone who can >attend to come out and join me. FYI, my contact info is as follows: > >Kenneth R. Burger >(810)977-1674 >krburger@burger-family.org > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Will Doherty" >To: "Kenneth Burger" >Cc: "will Doherty" >Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:40 AM >Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] logistical stuff. > > > > Hey Kenneth, > > > > If we can list you as a contact person for a Detroit protest > > on the EFF website, then you will likely hear from a number > > of people who will help you make the protest happen.. > > can you please let me know if you would like > > to be listed right away and how to list you > > (name, email, phone)? > > > > We are planning to send an alert out to 27,000 people > > later this evening, so please get back to me right away > > if you possibly can. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Will Doherty > > Online Activist / Media Relations > > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > > Web http://www.eff.org > > > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > > ------- > > > > At 10:21 PM 7/19/2001 -0400, Kenneth Burger wrote: > > >I'd like to organize one in Detroit, but I don't even know if there's a > > >federal building there anymore. Plus I have no experience with this sort >of > > >thing, but if anyone's interested in getting together to do some sort of > > >protest in the Metro-Detroit area, please > > >drop me a line. > > > > From webmaster at hmonline.com Fri Jul 20 08:42:00 2001 From: webmaster at hmonline.com (Robin Sale) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slashdot FINALLY published us Message-ID: Well, It took long enough (I know that my own story submission on the protests was rejected) but the story has made www.slashdot.org http://slashdot.org/yro/01/07/20/1332227.shtml DS ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The Digital Sorceress - We Work Magic with Technology www.digitalsorceress.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From esper at sherohman.org Fri Jul 20 08:42:32 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010719194937.0323ea30@casbah.it.northwestern.edu>; from ldavids@northwestern.edu on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 07:59:30PM -0500 References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010719194937.0323ea30@casbah.it.northwestern.edu> Message-ID: <20010720104232.C27798@sherohman.org> On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 07:59:30PM -0500, Lloyd Davidson wrote: > What about locking a book inside of a small safe instead of burning > it? Burying it might be another apt metaphor. Both of these are more > closely equivalent to the encryption of text that keeps its content hidden > away then burning. Put an open book inside a glass box with a simple manual latch - something that can be opened without requiring a key or a combination - holding the lid shut. Explain to people that they're free to read the book, but working the latch is a felony. (We can't let you open the latch to turn the page because then you might steal the book...) -- It's as if we outlawed cars on the principle that they could be used to help crooks escape from bank robberies. - Dan Gillmore on the DMCA From proclus at iname.com Fri Jul 20 08:48:25 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus realm) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] nice story! Message-ID: <3B5852C8.E112B06A@iname.com> http://sf.indymedia.org/display.php?id=101903 This is the best story about our movement that I have read so far, and I will forward a link to anyone who writes me about it. Thanks so much. Here is a link to our coverage, if you haven't seen it yet. Probably nothing new for you there. http://gnu-darwin.sourceforge.net/news.html Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From LGORKIN at mobius.com Fri Jul 20 08:45:43 2001 From: LGORKIN at mobius.com (Leonid Gorkin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? Message-ID: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F79@ryentes1.mobius.com> Hi everybody, I've just joined this mailing list. It's not like I often participate in protest action, but it this case I think I would. Is any protest action planned in New York City? I think there is a group of people who organized protests during 2600 trial, is anything going on now? Regards, Leonid From me at ryanmarsh.com Fri Jul 20 06:46:25 2001 From: me at ryanmarsh.com (Ryan Marsh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] unified message Message-ID: <995636785.28234.6.camel@cocoon.butterflysoft.org> Has the EFF distributed prepared statements, guidelines, suggestions and such for us to use when speaking with the media, passerby, or employees of Adobe? If not, can their lawyers/PR come up with something? I feel it is very important for us to have a unified and coherent message. On another note, I'll be driving down from Daly City/SF, if anyone needs a ride lemme know. -- Regards, -ryan The three great virtues of programming are laziness, impatience, and hubris, but bigotry makes the open-source world go round. From maxomai at aracnet.com Fri Jul 20 08:50:38 2001 From: maxomai at aracnet.com (Michael C. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: ; from jeme@brelin.net on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 10:05:15PM -0700 References: <8766co5s44.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010720085038.A27572@aracnet.com> On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 10:05:15PM -0700, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > The DMCA must be challenged in a court of law. That's how our system > works. If Dmitry is immediately freed, we lose the opportunity for the > challenge of the criminal portions of that law. > > Maybe you're just trusting Felten v. RIAA. We also have an opportunity here to pressure Congress to change the law. The key is to raise a big stink in the traditional media and to send lots and lots of letters to our legislators. This issue doesn't even touch the periphery of their conciousness. Legislators are some of the LEAST wired people on the planet and they need to be made aware by our screaming really loudly. Mike Smith From noring at olagrande.net Fri Jul 20 08:52:30 2001 From: noring at olagrande.net (noring@olagrande.net) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The "Petition" -- first specific thoughts on the focus... Message-ID: <200107201552.KAA16681@og1.olagrande.net> Will replied: >Worded as you have it below, >the online petition idea is great >and EFF will definitely support it and >publicize it once we get >petition text that works for us >and the community of activists here >and elsewhere (which should not be difficult!). > >Anyone have the cycles to draft >something? Feel free to crib from >the materials already on the EFF >website. The critical decision to make is the focus of this petition (if that's what we want to call it -- it may be a "position statement", or some such thing), and who, if any, it is directed to (we may decide not to focus it on any one organization or group -- thus for this it would not be a petition per se but something a little different.) I advise against focusing the statement against Adobe, nor to focus it solely on the Sklyarov matter, since the real underlying issue is the DMCA itself -- it should be an anti-DMCA statement. Obviously some wording can be included showing the undersigned are aghast by Adobe's and the Fed's actions, so it need not be blind to current events. (It is the current events that provides the eye-opening reasons why the DMCA is evil -- before Sklyarov it was mostly academic in most people's eyes -- now we have something real and human -- something people can relate to.) The reason for this is based on actual experience. Should the petition be directed at Adobe, and Adobe happens to have a change of heart, then the petition drive will immediately wither, and the real culprit, the DMCA, will remain. Likewise for Sklyarov -- if the charges are dropped and he is sent back to Russia, a petition focused solely on freeing Sklyarov will also falter, and the real culprit, the DMCA, will escape. The real goal is overturning the DMCA (and the EU equivalent which will take effect in a year or two), and if the DMCA is overturned (which will take time, well beyond the life of the anti-DMCA petition) then that is the real solution, the end goal -- we simply use the Sklyarov matter as the real world example to get people to sit up and listen. Now, if we are to focus it on any particular matter, I would focus it on Freeing Sklyarov. But witho