[11/10/00 @ 18:30:26] Suggestion: home key steganography. [11/10/00 @ 18:30:39] >(BangTheNunSlowly) eh? [11/10/00 @ 18:30:40] Wot? [11/10/00 @ 18:30:55] Well, you have 8 home keys, right? [11/10/00 @ 18:31:03] >(BangTheNunSlowly) no [11/10/00 @ 18:31:04] >(BangTheNunSlowly) only one [11/10/00 @ 18:31:09] Ahem. [11/10/00 @ 18:31:11] >(BangTheNunSlowly) it's right above my End key [11/10/00 @ 18:31:14] You have 8 keys on the home row? [11/10/00 @ 18:31:21] Grrrr. [11/10/00 @ 18:31:24] >(BangTheNunSlowly) the row consists of 13 keys [11/10/00 @ 18:31:41] >(BangTheNunSlowly) are you feeling all right? [11/10/00 @ 18:31:47] I'm not going to explain my genius idea to you if you are going to be obstinate. [11/10/00 @ 18:31:50] >(BangTheNunSlowly) fine [11/10/00 @ 18:31:57] >(BangTheNunSlowly) eight keys [11/10/00 @ 18:32:00] >(BangTheNunSlowly) asdfjkl; [11/10/00 @ 18:32:07] All right, actually, I'm going to continue explaining my genius idea anyways. [11/10/00 @ 18:32:25] >* BangTheNunSlowly puts the LFPs away [11/10/00 @ 18:32:42] So to encode a stream, you take bits off the stream by 3s, and use that to look up one of the keys on the home row. [11/10/00 @ 18:33:00] You end up encoding all your data so it looks like a;lkad;akldja;ldkjdkdjf;alkjad;lakaja;lkjadfaa;lkjdf [11/10/00 @ 18:33:06] In other words, typewriter garbage. [11/10/00 @ 18:33:15] >(BangTheNunSlowly) mmmkay [11/10/00 @ 18:33:17] But in actuality its s00per-sekrit code! [11/10/00 @ 18:33:53] All right, I guess it's wouldn't be that believeable if you had 18Mb of a;lakjl;kajfa;lakja;alkja;lkaj;adkfjaaa;ljg [11/10/00 @ 18:34:02] >(BangTheNunSlowly) sure it would! [11/10/00 @ 18:34:12] >(BangTheNunSlowly) it's an archive of jerkcity! [11/10/00 @ 18:34:17] >(BangTheNunSlowly) AGUHLugALHGuagaaUAGLUAGAUAGLAUH [11/10/00 @ 18:34:31] Excellent! The jerkcity.com steganography code! [11/10/00 @ 18:34:56] >(BangTheNunSlowly) encode your evil plans into the sound effects of fellatio! [11/10/00 @ 18:35:18] Doesn't break down as nicely, though: AGUHLaguhl [11/10/00 @ 18:35:33] >(BangTheNunSlowly) well [11/10/00 @ 18:35:34] I guess you could just throw out, like, lowercase h and g or something. [11/10/00 @ 18:35:41] >(BangTheNunSlowly) nono [11/10/00 @ 18:35:47] >(BangTheNunSlowly) jerkcity uses more [11/10/00 @ 18:35:53] >(BangTheNunSlowly) labalhgubhlubhlhgubalhgubghalb [11/10/00 @ 18:35:58] >(BangTheNunSlowly) you can add in certain letters [11/10/00 @ 18:36:34] >(BangTheNunSlowly) AGHBULua [11/10/00 @ 18:36:49] >(BangTheNunSlowly) or just add more vowels [11/10/00 @ 18:36:57] >(BangTheNunSlowly) agehulolegaelhgeoaeobeageoheoaehgleohgaelgheaohgl [11/10/00 @ 18:37:43] OK, they have b's and r's. SO that's 14. I guess O's work too. [11/10/00 @ 18:38:46] OK, I'm going to write a program in FORTH to do this. [11/10/00 @ 18:38:50] >(BangTheNunSlowly) christ [11/10/00 @ 18:38:53] >(BangTheNunSlowly) I'm doing it in C [11/10/00 @ 18:39:04] That's hardly sporting. [11/10/00 @ 18:39:07] >(BangTheNunSlowly) ha [11/10/00 @ 18:39:08] >(BangTheNunSlowly) well [11/10/00 @ 18:39:18] >(BangTheNunSlowly) bitwise manipulation is easier [11/10/00 @ 18:39:28] >(BangTheNunSlowly) and I can write a proper filter [11/10/00 @ 18:41:09] ok [11/10/00 @ 18:41:14] shrunk it down to 180k [11/10/00 @ 18:41:27] >(BangTheNunSlowly) cool [11/10/00 @ 18:41:29] jar -cf /mnt/tribble/var/www/java/mindterm.jar mindbright/application/MindTerm.class mindbright/ssh/SSHClient.class mindbright/ssh/SSH.class mindbright/ssh/SSHInteractiveClient.class mindbright/ssh/SSHInteractor.class mindbright/ssh/SSHAuthenticator.class mindbright/ssh/SSHSCPIndicator.class mindbright/terminal/TerminalInterpreter.class mindbright/terminal/TerminalXTerm.class mindbright/terminal/TerminalMenuListener.class mindbright/termi [11/10/00 @ 18:41:32] erm [11/10/00 @ 18:41:34] brb [11/10/00 @ 18:44:51] You can write an OK filter in Forth, too. [11/10/00 @ 18:46:14] >(BangTheNunSlowly) yeah, well [11/10/00 @ 18:46:41] I won't even ask what an ok filter is [11/10/00 @ 18:48:40] damn [11/10/00 @ 18:48:48] files with $ in the names are no fun [11/10/00 @ 18:49:33] >(BangTheNunSlowly) awwww [11/10/00 @ 18:50:03] in the Makefile [11/10/00 @ 18:50:14] \$ doesn't work for some reason [11/10/00 @ 18:51:03] >(BangTheNunSlowly) ah [11/10/00 @ 18:51:07] >(BangTheNunSlowly) hmmm [11/10/00 @ 18:51:11] I'm trying to make it easier [11/10/00 @ 18:51:23] so I don't have to give all 50 files in one command [11/10/00 @ 18:51:49] I've already gotten that as part of the Makefile, except that some of the files contain $ [11/10/00 @ 18:52:04] it worked when I specified *.class [11/10/00 @ 18:53:39] $$ [11/10/00 @ 18:53:45] escape $ with another $ [11/10/00 @ 18:53:50] Dang. Uh, Nick, I'm out of the running for a while. [11/10/00 @ 18:53:51] >(BangTheNunSlowly) aha [11/10/00 @ 18:53:56] >(BangTheNunSlowly) running? [11/10/00 @ 18:54:04] To make a Jerkcity filter in Forth. [11/10/00 @ 18:54:07] >(BangTheNunSlowly) why? [11/10/00 @ 18:54:13] The rotation math is making my head spin, and I need to go for a run. [11/10/00 @ 18:54:13] whoops. forgot one file it seems [11/10/00 @ 18:54:23] >(BangTheNunSlowly) okay [11/10/00 @ 18:54:26] >(BangTheNunSlowly) go apeshit [11/10/00 @ 18:54:34] So go ahead and win, you bastard. [11/10/00 @ 18:54:48] >(BangTheNunSlowly) haven't started [11/10/00 @ 18:55:06] Oh, I was laboring under the misconception that you were writing one in C as we spoke. [11/10/00 @ 18:55:53] >(BangTheNunSlowly) haha [11/10/00 @ 18:55:55] >(BangTheNunSlowly) wlel [11/10/00 @ 18:55:56] >(BangTheNunSlowly) I could [11/10/00 @ 18:56:07] >(BangTheNunSlowly) I was hoping we'd agree on an encoding [11/10/00 @ 18:57:51] oh hell [11/10/00 @ 18:57:58] rm -rf'd the wrong place [11/10/00 @ 18:58:14] :( [11/10/00 @ 18:58:24] I just got the rotation right. [11/10/00 @ 18:58:28] >(BangTheNunSlowly) MARKETS ARE DRIVEN BY EMOTIONS. AND EMOTIONS CAN BE ENGINEERED. [11/10/00 @ 18:58:28] >(BangTheNunSlowly) -- Commander Zai of etoy [11/10/00 @ 18:58:31] You have to do it a bit at a time. [11/10/00 @ 18:58:54] >(BangTheNunSlowly) I need an RFC here, people! [11/10/00 @ 18:59:37] >(BangTheNunSlowly) so we should put a logging bot in #pigdog as well as dumont [11/10/00 @ 18:59:47] >(BangTheNunSlowly) and then advertize it on PDJ [11/10/00 @ 19:00:00] >(BangTheNunSlowly) and just record feverish canucks hollering at an infobot [11/10/00 @ 19:00:08] >(BangTheNunSlowly) we could set up a bunch of infobots [11/10/00 @ 19:00:26] >(BangTheNunSlowly) with names like MrBad, JRoyale, and Flesh_ [11/10/00 @ 19:00:41] >(BangTheNunSlowly) like a panel of gobbledygook [11/10/00 @ 19:01:04] *** Dumont (~Dumont@cloaked.telocity.com) has quit IRC (Quit: All that is visible must grow beyond itself and extend into the realm of the invisi:) [11/10/00 @ 19:01:19] *** Dumont (~Dumont@cloaked.telocity.com) has joined channel [11/10/00 @ 19:01:57] YEAH! [11/10/00 @ 19:02:05] I like that idea. [11/10/00 @ 19:02:22] PANEL DISCUSSION WITH PIGDOG EDITORS TONIGHT AT 8PM EST ON SLASHNET [11/10/00 @ 19:03:24] >(BangTheNunSlowly) yessss [11/10/00 @ 19:03:33] >(BangTheNunSlowly) we'd need to feed pigdog quotes into the bots [11/10/00 @ 19:03:38] >(BangTheNunSlowly) and get them to ignore each other [11/10/00 @ 19:03:59] >(BangTheNunSlowly) we could feed entire stories in [11/10/00 @ 19:04:21] hehe, if this works, I'll say I've been an idiot all night long [11/10/00 @ 19:04:35] >(BangTheNunSlowly) orion, and if it doesn't work, I'll say it for you [11/10/00 @ 19:05:55] cool [11/10/00 @ 19:08:37] oooh, 150k [11/10/00 @ 19:08:41] but does it work [11/10/00 @ 19:10:35] >(BangTheNunSlowly) orion, if you get this working, I'll happily make it part of the front page [11/10/00 @ 19:10:40] >(BangTheNunSlowly) you could post about it to motd [11/10/00 @ 19:11:30] >(BangTheNunSlowly) Dear holy pompous Mother of Krishna, this has got to be the worst [11/10/00 @ 19:11:30] >(BangTheNunSlowly) rebuttal to a technical argument I've ever heard. [11/10/00 @ 19:11:32] >(BangTheNunSlowly) hahahahahahaha [11/10/00 @ 19:11:43] >(BangTheNunSlowly) hahahahahaahahah [11/10/00 @ 19:12:41] hmmm [11/10/00 @ 19:12:43] ok [11/10/00 @ 19:12:49] Heheheheheheh. [11/10/00 @ 19:12:49] $$ doesn't work [11/10/00 @ 19:12:51] Yeah, well. [11/10/00 @ 19:12:58] it makes that one ignored [11/10/00 @ 19:13:02] * Orion grumbles [11/10/00 @ 19:14:11] New Mr. Bad's List idea: things to say when you're losing a technical argument and you don't know what you're talking about. [11/10/00 @ 19:14:20] >(BangTheNunSlowly) yeah! [11/10/00 @ 19:14:21] >(BangTheNunSlowly) like [11/10/00 @ 19:14:25] >(BangTheNunSlowly) WHat are your parameters? [11/10/00 @ 19:14:26] >(BangTheNunSlowly) or [11/10/00 @ 19:14:30] >(BangTheNunSlowly) You're begging the question. [11/10/00 @ 19:14:45] "That's been proven to be O(N^2) and we need a solution that's O(NlogN) or it won't scale." [11/10/00 @ 19:14:47] there. just throw that in a .sh for the makefile to run :) [11/10/00 @ 19:15:29] "There are, of course, various export limitations on that technology." [11/10/00 @ 19:16:04] "The syntax is idiosyncratic." [11/10/00 @ 19:16:52] "Trying to build a team behind that technology would be a staffing nightmare." [11/10/00 @ 19:17:13] >(BangTheNunSlowly) "That can't be generalized to a cross-platform build." [11/10/00 @ 19:17:25] Excellent! [11/10/00 @ 19:17:46] "Unfortunately, the license would contaminate our product." [11/10/00 @ 19:18:21] "If we go with that idea, we're going to have Don Marti out in the front lobby with 300 angry software jihad supporters." [11/10/00 @ 19:18:35] >(BangTheNunSlowly) "Our support infrastructure simply can't handle the volume that change would involve." [11/10/00 @ 19:20:20] "I had one of the interns try that approach for another project, and it scrambled the CEO's hard drive. So I think it's going to be a hard sell." [11/10/00 @ 19:20:21] >(BangTheNunSlowly) "Yes, well, that's just not the way things work in the real world." [11/10/00 @ 19:20:30] Oooh, that's such a good one! [11/10/00 @ 19:21:27] "I like your idea. Why don't you write up a white paper and we'll review it at the next staff meeting?" [11/10/00 @ 19:22:19] actually, there's a lot of junk in this client like a type of SCP ... but again, that only works if the applet is signed because of the file access [11/10/00 @ 19:22:27] >(BangTheNunSlowly) "Unfortunately, we're an all-FORTH shop. Otherwise, it's a nice idea." [11/10/00 @ 19:22:38] Haw! [11/10/00 @ 19:22:54] >(BangTheNunSlowly) I want a byline on this one [11/10/00 @ 19:23:06] >* BangTheNunSlowly fights tooth and nail for the only currency PDJ deals in [11/10/00 @ 19:23:26] "I think you need to stop taking this so personally. We need to think about what's best for the project, not about our own little pet theories." [11/10/00 @ 19:23:48] OK, you got a byline. [11/10/00 @ 19:24:08] >(BangTheNunSlowly) "Oh, I played with that approach back as an undergrad. Got a D, too." [11/10/00 @ 19:24:39] "I was reading about that on BugTraq yesterday." [11/10/00 @ 19:24:48] >(BangTheNunSlowly) hahahah! [11/10/00 @ 19:24:49] >(BangTheNunSlowly) nice! [11/10/00 @ 19:25:06] >(BangTheNunSlowly) "Yes, I believe that's the approach Windows NT is taking." [11/10/00 @ 19:25:41] >(BangTheNunSlowly) "That's totally inefficient on modern hardware." [11/10/00 @ 19:25:52] >(BangTheNunSlowly) (my favorite argument against something) [11/10/00 @ 19:25:53] >(BangTheNunSlowly) like [11/10/00 @ 19:25:54] "Well, yes, but it really reduces to the knapsack problem in that case. Do you have some kind of heuristic, or are we dealing with an NP-complete case?" [11/10/00 @ 19:25:57] >(BangTheNunSlowly) today's hardware is TOO GOOD [11/10/00 @ 19:26:03] >(BangTheNunSlowly) for your stinky algorithm [11/10/00 @ 19:26:52] >(BangTheNunSlowly) "Have you LOOKED at the number of I/O requests that will create?" [11/10/00 @ 19:26:56] Haw haw haw! [11/10/00 @ 19:27:17] "We can't afford the transaction overhead." [11/10/00 @ 19:27:21] >(BangTheNunSlowly) hehe [11/10/00 @ 19:28:00] >(BangTheNunSlowly) "Yeah, or we could all just plink away on Amigas or something." [11/10/00 @ 19:28:30] >(BangTheNunSlowly) "What? I don't speak your crazy moon-language." [11/10/00 @ 19:28:44] "Hmm. Didn't they just go bankrupt? It's OK, I guess -- there's some German company who's picked up the existing service contracts." [11/10/00 @ 19:29:23] "No, no, no. We're really working on an N-TIER architecture, here." [11/10/00 @ 19:29:46] "No, no, no. It's fairly important that the database be in THIRD NORMAL FORM." [11/10/00 @ 19:29:57] "No, that would break object encapsulation." [11/10/00 @ 19:30:21] >(BangTheNunSlowly) "I don't think that's altogether clear. Please write it up in UML for me." [11/10/00 @ 19:30:37] >(BangTheNunSlowly) "I think there's a problem with your drive geometry." [11/10/00 @ 19:30:45] "Can you generate some USE CASES that would justify the change?" [11/10/00 @ 19:31:20] "How is that going to impact the schedule?" [11/10/00 @ 19:31:35] >(BangTheNunSlowly) "RAM is cheap and all, but..." [11/10/00 @ 19:31:47] "It would probably be best if we deferred that until version 2.0." [11/10/00 @ 19:32:04] >(BangTheNunSlowly) "I like it, but it is too point-oh for my tastes." [11/10/00 @ 19:32:46] "If you make this change, I will fork the code." [11/10/00 @ 19:33:01] >(BangTheNunSlowly) "Yes, well, unfortunately the economy is going away from anything remotely like that. Our investors would kill us." [11/10/00 @ 19:33:54] "Jakob Nielsen wrote an interesting hit piece on that." [11/10/00 @ 19:34:10] >(BangTheNunSlowly) "Yes, yes, we've all read DJB's RFCs on the subject." [11/10/00 @ 19:35:18] >(BangTheNunSlowly) "This is all covered in Knuth, and we don't have time to go over it again." [11/10/00 @ 19:36:09] "This one is in the FAQ: http://www.linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/#your_dumb_technology" [11/10/00 @ 19:36:25] >(BangTheNunSlowly) hahaha [11/10/00 @ 19:36:56] >(BangTheNunSlowly) "I don't have time for this extropian nonsense." [11/10/00 @ 19:37:37] "Well, I guess we could start the QA cycles again from square one. That would require a press release, though." [11/10/00 @ 19:37:59] >(BangTheNunSlowly) "You used to program in Pascal, didn't you?" [11/10/00 @ 19:38:05] !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [11/10/00 @ 19:38:08] That's great! [11/10/00 @ 19:38:08] So send it to Crackmonkey! [11/10/00 @ 19:39:23] >(BangTheNunSlowly) hehehe [11/10/00 @ 19:39:42] "Why don't we make a generalized solution including both options, and let the administrator decide with a config-file setting?" [11/10/00 @ 19:40:45] >(BangTheNunSlowly) haha [11/10/00 @ 19:40:46] >(BangTheNunSlowly) man [11/10/00 @ 19:40:53] >(BangTheNunSlowly) I've heard that one TOO MANY TIMES [11/10/00 @ 19:41:08] >(BangTheNunSlowly) "You've obviously ignored the various namespace issues." [11/10/00 @ 19:41:44] "I don't think you're considering the performance trade-offs." [11/10/00 @ 19:42:09] *** BangTheNunSlowly is now know as CrackMonkey [11/10/00 @ 19:42:24] >(CrackMonkey) "What kind of benchmarks have you been running? [11/10/00 @ 19:42:33] "Let's table this for now, and we'll talk about it one-on-one off-line." [11/10/00 @ 19:42:38] >(CrackMonkey) hahaha [11/10/00 @ 19:42:49] off-line == /dev/null [11/10/00 @ 19:42:55] >(CrackMonkey) "This really doesn't jive with our core competency." [11/10/00 @ 19:43:09] >(CrackMonkey) "This sort of thing should really be outsourced." [11/10/00 @ 19:43:37] "I remember that IBM had a project to do that back in the 70s." [11/10/00 @ 19:44:14] >(CrackMonkey) "Um, hello? We're using VON NEUMANN MACHINES HERE." [11/10/00 @ 19:45:23] "We need this to fit on a single floppy." [11/10/00 @ 19:46:24] >(CrackMonkey) "Yes, but can this be embedded in a toaster, for example?" [11/10/00 @ 19:46:41] >(CrackMonkey) "We need something that my mom can use." [11/10/00 @ 19:47:38] "Users won't want to click through that many layers of hierarchy." [11/10/00 @ 19:47:57] >(CrackMonkey) "The packaging costs will be prohibitive." [11/10/00 @ 19:48:07] "OK, but what about internationalization?" [11/10/00 @ 19:48:53] >(CrackMonkey) "Look, would you just get off your Be obsession for FIVE MINUTES and talk serious design with us?" [11/10/00 @ 19:49:18] "That's a good idea -- you should do that on your home page." [11/10/00 @ 19:49:40] >(CrackMonkey) "Yeah, Linuxcare tried that with the Sourceror project." [11/10/00 @ 19:49:42] "Ho, man! Are they still AROUND? That's so cool. I thought that whole idea was discredited years ago." [11/10/00 @ 19:50:18] "What you're not seeing is the difference between an 'is-a' and a 'has-a' relationship." [11/10/00 @ 19:50:19] >(CrackMonkey) "There is no hope for the widow's son, Boaz." [11/10/00 @ 19:50:48] "Yes, but we're standardizing on XML." [11/10/00 @ 19:51:18] "That doesn't fit into the MVC model." [11/10/00 @ 19:51:40] >(CrackMonkey) "Well, that's great if you have an AI running the thing." [11/10/00 @ 19:51:54] "I heard that the only real application for that technology was child pornography." [11/10/00 @ 19:52:31] "How did you hear about it?" [11/10/00 @ 19:53:13] "Well, they're going to do that with the next version of Perl, so we should probably wait." [11/10/00 @ 19:53:26] "Well, they're going to do that with the next version of OS X, so we should probably wait." [11/10/00 @ 19:53:58] Crap, gotta go. [11/10/00 @ 19:54:03] Send me any more you think of. [11/10/00 @ 19:54:06] or the next version of amiga [11/10/00 @ 19:55:59] >(CrackMonkey) cool [11/10/00 @ 19:56:00] >(CrackMonkey) yeah [11/10/00 @ 19:56:02] >(CrackMonkey) I should get dinner [11/10/00 @ 19:56:04] >(CrackMonkey) and head off [11/10/00 @ 19:57:00] >(CrackMonkey) back to the city [11/10/00 @ 20:10:42] damn [11/10/00 @ 20:10:46] 212k [11/10/00 @ 20:12:29] * Orion is away.. frustrated ..(log+page) [11/10/00 @ 20:16:35] *** aargh (derek@cloaked.cynicism.com) has quit IRC (Quit: [gar]) [11/10/00 @ 20:24:49] *** Dataknife (steve@cloaked.lawrence.ks.us) has joined channel [11/10/00 @ 20:25:13] It's the illustrious Mr. Bad [11/10/00 @ 20:25:21] you know of him? [11/10/00 @ 20:25:33] Yes, From the Freenet-Dev list