[CrackMonkey] Brainfuck!

[Sean Neakums]

FYI.

-------------------- Start of forwarded message --------------------
From: stephen at stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pratchett
Subject: Re: [R] Lady Sybil
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 15:00:05 GMT

A few snippets of extra information from my trusty reference library:

Courtesy titles:

The eldest son and heir of a noble can take the most prestigious of
his father's "lesser" titles as a courtesy title.  The father still
legally holds the title:  the son merely makes use of it.  (sons of
Dukes who *have* no lesser titles are regarded as being courtesy
Earls).

The other children of a duke or marquess are allowed to use the title
Lord/Lady before their own full name.  If a daughter marries, she
continues to use the title "Lady" before her new, married name.
Younger children of lesser nobles use the title "The Honourable"
rather than "Lord/Lady".

The children of the eldest son, if they are born while their
grandfather is still alive, also use the courtesy title Lord/Lady or
The Honourable, as appropriate.  Children of younger sons and
daughters have no title.

Example:  Mortimer Wimsey, the Duke of Denver, is also the Earl of
Saint-George.  

His eldest son will be called Earl of Saint-George until his father
dies (Note that courtesy titles miss out the "The":  the father is the
Earl of Saint-George, the son is Earl of Saint-George)

The eldest son's own children would be called Lord John Wimsey and
Lady Jane Wimsey. (when his grandfather the old Duke dies, Paul will
become Earl of Saint-George in turn).

The Duke's younger children would be called Lord Peter Wimsey and Lady
Mary Wimsey.  If Mary marries, she can continue to prefix her married
name with "Lady": eg Lady Mary Parker.  Her children would be plain
Peter Parker and Janet Parker.

Wives

Men with no titles of their own who marry a woman with a courtesy
title do not gain any right to a courtesy title of their own.  The
opposite is not true:

A woman who marries the eldest son gets to use the feminine equivalent
of his courtesy title:  Earl of Saint-George's wife is Countess of
Saint-George.

A woman who marries someone with the courtesy title "Lord" can use the
title Lady plus her husband's full name - not her own!  So, when Lord
Peter Wimsey marries Harriet Vane, she becomes known as Lady Peter
Wimsey.  Calling her Lady Harriet Wimsey would be a social blunder,
implying that her own father is a Duke.

Wives of "Honourables" can also call themselves "The Honourable".  

The wife of an actual peer (not someone using a courtesy title) uses
the feminine form of her husband's title.  The Duke of Denver's wife
is the Duchess of Denver.

The wives of lesser peers (Marchionesses, Countesses, Viscountesses)
can use "Lady <title> as an informal alternative to a mouthful like
"Marchioness <title>".  Duchesses never demean themselves in such a
way.

When her husband dies, a peer's widow uses her previous title preceded
by "The Dowager".  For example, when old Duke Mortimer dies and his
son Gerald becomes Duke of Denver, Mortimer's wife Honoria becomes the
Dowager Duchess of Denver (as opposed to Gerald's own wife Helen, who
now becomes The Duchess of Denver).  Since the word dowager has
unfortunate associations, some widows prefer to use their christian
name plus title.  Honoria, Duchess of Denver, would therefore be the
mother-in-law of the Duchess of Denver.

A widow who re-marries (or a divorcee)  loses any rights to her
previous husband's titles, although some women continue to use them
(in the same way that retired military officers continue to be called
"Colonel" or "Major")

Signatures

A peer of the realm signs his name using only his title.  Mortimer
Wimsey, the Duke of Denver and the Earl of Saint-George, would sign
letters as "Denver" (not "Duke of...", just the plain title).


<deep breath>

To sum up, if Ankh-Morpork follows English rules, an unmarried woman
called Lady Sybil Ramkin would be the daughter of a duke, marquess or
earl.  Her father's title could have been anything:  she has not
inherited it.  

Calling her Lady Ramkin (without the "Sybil") is incorrect:  it
implies that Ramkin is a title, not her surname, and that she is
married to an Earl Ramkin or Viscount Ramkin (or she is a modern-style
British appointed life peer, like Lady Thatcher).

If she married plain Mr Vimes, she would become Lady Sybil Vimes (her
husband stays as Mr Vimes).  As wife of a knight, she could call
herself Lady Sybil Vimes even if she had been a commoner before.  
As wife of a Duke, she becomes The Duchess of Ankh.  If Sam Vimes died
before her, she would become either The Dowager Duchess of Ankh, or
Sybil, Duchess of Ankh.

Sam would be allowed to sign his letters "Ankh".  I believe Sybil
would have to write out "The Duchess of Ankh" since she's not a peer
in her own right.

Referring to her as Lady Sybil Ramkin after her marriage is socially
incorrect, but would be done if the speaker believed the Ramkin name
to have a higher social precedence than the Vimes name (in other
words, most of the A-M nobility will do this...).

Sam and Sybil's eldest son would be called Earl of Ankh until Sam
dies, when he would become The Duke of Ankh.  Their other children
would be called, eg, Lord Havelock Vimes, Lady Susan Vimes, etc.

Stephen
(plain Mr)


-------------------- End of forwarded message --------------------

-- 
"Pity has no place at my table."
      -- Dr Hannibal Lecter