From crism at maden.org Wed Aug 1 00:02:35 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's lawyer? In-Reply-To: <00a101c11a56$91b03b40$637ba8c0@vunicorn> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731230914.03869630@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010801000051.00a519f0@mail.maden.org> At 23:52 31-07-2001, Don MacAskill wrote: >For what it's worth, Alex (Dmitry's boss, president of Elcomsoft) asked that >if possible (I know, Phil said it to an entire crowd, but still...), we not >reveal/spread the name of Dmitry's lawyer for awhile longer. OK... I can respect that. But I am curious: what is the possible legal advantage of it? Are the Feds going to be taken by surprise when Lawrence Lessig takes off his mask in the courtroom and reveals he's actually Johnny Cochrane? Or is it because the deal isn't set in stone yet? -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From crism at maden.org Wed Aug 1 00:03:18 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ANNOUNCEMENT: Global IRC Free Dmitry Summit - 8/2/2001 In-Reply-To: <00a701c11a56$c4c578b0$637ba8c0@vunicorn> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731230747.03860290@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010801000238.00b1b540@mail.maden.org> At 23:54 31-07-2001, Don MacAskill wrote: >Dmitry is currently in Oklahoma, and may or may not be transfered to San >Jose afterall. Dmitry has been told that if he is transfered to San Jose, >that he will bounce from jail to jail before arriving in SJ. > >So it may be awhile. I'd hate to lose the momentum. I phrased it badly. If he's taking a while to transfer, we shouldn't hold off on other action, but we should have a plan in place and ready to go if and when he is transferred. -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From free-sklyarov at happycool.com Wed Aug 1 00:05:15 2001 From: free-sklyarov at happycool.com (Victor Piterbarg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: [NotDmcaLa] Long term thoughts [was: Sen. Hatch "commends" DOJ for Sklyarov arrest, IP prosecutions] In-Reply-To: <01073121245902.01042@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: It would be great if it was that easy! However, I don't think the artists you speak of are all that valuable to the corporations. Look at the BIGGEST bands of the recent times. Britney Spears, N'Synch, Backstreet Boys. These artists are manufactured by the record labels. These are the "artists" that make the most money FOR the corporations. And I think that if we approached Britney Spears with eloquent anti-DMCA arguments, the best we could hope for is a shiny smile or a giggle. The saddest part is that obviously the majority of the music-listening population is happy to religiously give up their money and support to these cookie-cutter bands. I think the corporations would be more than happy to see the writers and musicians who think for themselves to just go away, so that they could be replaced by the puppets with the lowest-common-denominator appeal that are manufactured in-house and have no concept of independent thought. -Victor -----Original Message----- From: notdmcala-admin@hackhawk.net [mailto:notdmcala-admin@hackhawk.net]On Behalf Of Mark K. Bilbo Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 9:25 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net; notdmcala@hackhawk.net Subject: [NotDmcaLa] Long term thoughts [was: Sen. Hatch "commends" DOJ for Sklyarov arrest, IP prosecutions] I see Hatch is just so proud of himself for wrecking constitutional rights he could just wet himself. I can't help but thinking that over the long haul, the best solution is to literally pull the rug out from under these scum corporations. Their great fear is that artists, the creators of "content," will connect directly to the public via the 'Net. Who needs the "middleman" leeching off your work if you can reach your public without them? Over the long term, I think the best solution will be creating *open, non-proprietary systems that enable artists to deliver "content" directly to their audience. Eliminate the leeches that have been sucking the life out of both the creator and the public. I think a strong alliance with artists would be profitable over the long haul. The media corporations are going to just keep at it, trying to squeeze more out of both the creators and the public. It would be nice to build systems in which the corporations could have all kinds of "protections" of content... but NO CONTENT. I think many, many artists are ready to "jump ship." It's begun with some of the more powerful ones (like King). But one of the great promises of the 'Net would be connecting even the most obscure artists with their hanful of fans. Ultimately, I think the best defense will be a strong "offense." Cut the middle-leeches out entirely. Mark I On Tuesday 31 July 2001 15:11, Jon O . wrote: > ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- > > X-Sender: declan@mail.well.com > X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 > Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 16:20:27 -0400 > To: politech@politechbot.com > From: Declan McCullagh > Subject: FC: Sen. Hatch "commends" DOJ for Sklyarov arrest, IP prosecutions > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: declan@well.com > X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ > X-Author: Declan McCullagh is at http://www.mccullagh.org/ > X-News-Site: Cluebot is at http://www.cluebot.com/ > > This is an excerpt from transcript of Monday's hearing of the Senate > Judiciary committee. "Free Sklyarov" activists had hoped that the case > would be brought up during the confirmation hearings, but I suspect this > isn't what they had in mind. Robert Mueller, of course, is President Bush's > pick to be FBI director. > > Info on hearing: > http://judiciary.senate.gov/hr073001f.htm > > Politech archive on U.S. v. Sklyarov: > http://www.politechbot.com/cgi-bin/politech.cgi?name=sklyarov > > Politech archive on DMCA: > http://www.politechbot.com/cgi-bin/politech.cgi?name=dmca > > "Congress is more than doubling number of federal copyright cops" > http://www.politechbot.com/p-02321.html > > -Declan > > ********* > > SEN. HATCH: One of the areas of prosecution for which you are > particularly known is that of computer and intellectual-property crime. As > U.S. attorney for the northern district of California, you created a > section called the Computer Hacking and Intellectual Property, or CHIP. > Recently Attorney General Ashcroft recognized your success in the most > sincere and flattering way possible by announcing the formation of nine > additional CHIPs units around the country. And as you know, a subset of > this area, criminal copyright enforcement, is of key importance to this > committee. We've devoted considerable energy over the past number of years > to Internet enforcement in particular. > > In 1997, we enacted the No Electronic Theft, or the NET Act, combining > criminal penalties for certain non-commercial Internet pirates. In 1998, we > passed the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, or the DMCA it's called, which > helps combat trafficking and hacking devices designed to defeat > technological protections for copyrighted material. We also enacted the > Digital Theft Deterrence and Copyright Damages Improvement Act to speed the > implementation of the NET Act and to improve on-line theft deterrence > generally. And we have even earmarked additional funding for DOJ > specifically for the investigation and prosecution of cyber-crime. > > The committee's work is starting to bear fruit in the form of criminal > prosecutions of Internet piracy. So far this year, the number of NET Act > prosecutions appears to be up, and we have just recently seen the first > criminal > prosecutions brought under the DMCA. Just this week, the Department of > Justice announced a series of new prosecutions of Internet crimes. > > I commended the Department of Justice for what I hope is a commitment > to cyber-crime enforcement, and I hope this becomes a priority for the FBI > as well. > Would you please outline for us, if you can, your plan as FBI director on > protecting the nation's computer infrastructure and intellectual property? > > MR. MUELLER: If I may go back briefly to what I saw when I took over as > U.S. > attorney in San Francisco. We had Silicon Valley in my district, and one of > the great issues was how do you protect -- or how do you not protect, but > how do you > combat high-tech crime? > > And the first thing I had to do was determine what do you mean by > high-tech crime, and I came to the conclusion that it should be broken down > in four ways: First of all, computer intrusions, denial-of- service > attacks; secondly, theft of intellectual property, economic espionage; > third, frauds on the Internet, distribution of child pornography on the > Internet; and fourthly, the theft of high-tech components such as computer > chips, hard drives and the like, all of which are critical to the high-tech > industry. > > We put together a unit in San Francisco and in San Jose because it was > important to develop the expertise in the United States attorneys, the > assistant > United States attorneys, who would be handling these cases. It was > important that we develop the relationship between the FBI agents, who had > the expertise to do these cases, the assistant United States attorneys who > were doing these cases, and the community. > > In addressing high-tech crime, it is critically important that we > develop the > relationships with those victims of high-tech crime in the high-tech > industry. And consequently, we will support -- should I be confirmed as the > director of the FBI, the FBI will support not only the unit that was set up > in the northern district of California, but also the other units to be set > up, announced by the attorney general last week. > > One other point I might make, and this goes to the issue of working > closely with the state and local authorities. There are too few > investigators with the skills we need to address this. And one of the > developments that has been useful > is what has been known or called a computer forensics lab, which was > established > in San Diego with a number of contributing participating agencies, both > federal and local. And it is that type of combined enterprise that we are > going to have to adopt if we are to address this new wave of separate > technological crime in the future. > > SEN. HATCH: Thank you. Mr. Mueller, as you know, the 2002 Winter > Olympics in > Salt Lake City, they're going to be the largest planned public safety and > law enforcement in our country in the foreseeable future. The law > enforcement community, including the FBI, has been working on the plans and > preparations for > several years. > > [...] > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list > You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. > To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html > This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _______________________________________________ NotDmcaLa mailing list NotDmcaLa@hackhawk.net http://hackhawk.net/mailman/listinfo/notdmcala From kyhwana at world-net.co.nz Wed Aug 1 00:46:59 2001 From: kyhwana at world-net.co.nz (Daniel Richards) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A natural ally -- Stephen King? In-Reply-To: <20010731212047.I3113@hal> Message-ID: <3B685CB3.18722.6319DC8@localhost> On 31 Jul 2001, at 21:20, Rob McGee wrote: > Think about it. This is a writer who fought the growing cancer of IP, > and he did it creatively, offering his fare at a fair, low price. I > don't know how that went for him, but I just checked his Web site > ( http://www.stephenking.com/ ) and it said the project is on hold for > the time being. [snip] He auctally made ~$600,000US NET profit, or at least that's what I heard. He put the project on hold because he wasn't getting enough people paying for the downloads, apprently. Heh. I don't think he really understands since he told people that if they downloaded a "second copy" in a different format they should pay again. That doesn't sound like someone who "gets it" to me. http://www.freesklyarov.org - Free Dmitry! PGP Pub key: http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/DanielRPubKey.asc Fingerprint: 416D 4027 D635 AF51 F2BF 60DF 4D94 F7A0 9893 2848 From crism at maden.org Wed Aug 1 03:21:02 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's lawyer Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010801031816.00ae7010@mail.maden.org> Alex Katalov contacted me off-list with a little more information. Publicizing the name of the lawyer would complicate negotiations for a variety of reasons (and no, I still don't know who it is) and would not help to get Dmitry out of jail faster. So I'm satisfied, and I hope that anyone else who heard Phil's slip will just forget it. (In fact, if the listmoms wouldn't mind, could my report on Phil's talk be edited in the archives?) -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From debug at centras.lt Wed Aug 1 04:55:53 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big question In-Reply-To: <00c101c119de$75ab9de0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> References: <00c101c119de$75ab9de0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Message-ID: <13016680093.20010801135553@centras.lt> I have a question for american people What do you think is more important in your business 1) To earn as much money as possible or 2) To make production process more eficient ? The reason why i ask this question is that many people on the list agree that public should subsidy ( in other words support copyrights ) intellectual property production (and i agree with that) but they also think more efficient way of doing things should be prevented until copyright expires -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From declan at well.com Wed Aug 1 05:07:49 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacktivism? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731230340.0386da60@mail.maden.org>; from crism@maden.org on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 11:04:42PM -0700 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731230340.0386da60@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <20010801080749.D18961@cluebot.com> Search wired.com On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 11:04:42PM -0700, Christopher R. Maden wrote: > I heard a rumor tonight at Phil Zimmermann's talk that last week a couple > of small Web sites had been 0wn3d by supporters of Dmitry. I hadn't seen > anything about that here or in the media; can anyone confirm or deny? > > -crism > -- > David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. > > === Freelance Text Nerd: === > PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From declan at well.com Wed Aug 1 05:14:35 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's lawyer In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010801031816.00ae7010@mail.maden.org>; from crism@maden.org on Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 03:21:02AM -0700 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010801031816.00ae7010@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <20010801081435.E18961@cluebot.com> It took me about 10 seconds to find out the name of Phil's attorney based on posts here. I don't know why you'd expect journalists (who were at the Zimmermann talk) not to include this in their articles. If you or Alex want to make a serious case (and hand-waving about complicating negotiations won't do it), you should post that here or contact reporters covering this case directly and state your arguments. Otherwise it'll be in news articles soon enough and no amount of archive-editing will work. -Declan On Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 03:21:02AM -0700, Christopher R. Maden wrote: > Alex Katalov contacted me off-list with a little more > information. Publicizing the name of the lawyer would complicate > negotiations for a variety of reasons (and no, I still don't know who it > is) and would not help to get Dmitry out of jail faster. So I'm satisfied, > and I hope that anyone else who heard Phil's slip will just forget it. > > (In fact, if the listmoms wouldn't mind, could my report on Phil's talk be > edited in the archives?) > > -crism > -- > David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. > > === Freelance Text Nerd: === > PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From pmasloch at earthlink.net Wed Aug 1 05:14:13 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A natural ally -- Stephen King? References: <20010731212047.I3113@hal> Message-ID: <3B67F295.3060401@earthlink.net> The reason why Stephen King stopped this was because it was not successful. Not many people paid the $ just to read it 1 time. I also would rather buy his books :-) Peter Rob McGee wrote: > Think about it. This is a writer who fought the growing cancer of IP, > and he did it creatively, offering his fare at a fair, low price. I > don't know how that went for him, but I just checked his Web site > ( http://www.stephenking.com/ ) and it said the project is on hold for > the time being. > > I don't know anything about it -- I only vaguely recall hearing about > him offering a novel free for download, and asking only US$1 or so as > payment if you liked it. I also thought I had heard he was successful > with it, but if so, it looks like the IP thugs have figured out a way to > put him out of business. > > Does anyone know more about that project of his? Was it motivated as I > suspect it might have been, to eliminate the slimy IP weasels of the > publishing business? > > If so, he's our man. If we can get a high-profile popular mainstream > personality to pick up our banner, we can increase the attention we get. > Plus, he's loaded with connections to other authors and celebrities. > Perhaps someone from EFF, or with authority to speak for Dmitri himself, > should write to him and ask for his support. > > Just a suggestion, trying to help ... > > Rob - /dev/rob0 > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > -- Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org/ From mickeym at mindspring.com Wed Aug 1 05:24:24 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (mickeym) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big question References: <00c101c119de$75ab9de0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> <13016680093.20010801135553@centras.lt> Message-ID: <3B67F4F7.3EFEA00@mindspring.com> Between those two choices, I would pick number 1. There are additional factors to making money, in addition to production efficiency. I like to say that every project is a compromise of three factors: quality, time to market, and cost. Usually, however, one is always sacrificed for the other two. In other words: good, fast, cheap. Pick two. I'll try to get back on-topic: You are correct, in that copyright is like the prevention of an efficient method of distribution, but it is in favor of giving the author an opprtunity to capitalize on their creative works. The "incentive to create" was supposed to be for a limited time, though, and that's where the balance is supposed to be, too. It tries to be an efficient method to "promote progress." I regret that the result in this situation is that Dmitry is in jail. Some "progress", hmmm? I am trying to do my part, small though it may be, to release him as soon as possible. mickeym DeBug wrote: > I have a question for american people > What do you think is more important in your business > 1) To earn as much money as possible > or > 2) To make production process more eficient ? > > The reason why i ask this question is that many people on the list > agree that public should subsidy ( in other words support copyrights ) > intellectual property production (and i agree with that) but they also think > more efficient way of doing things should be prevented until copyright expires > -- > Best regards, > DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From pmasloch at earthlink.net Wed Aug 1 05:40:40 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big question References: <00c101c119de$75ab9de0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> <13016680093.20010801135553@centras.lt> <3B67F4F7.3EFEA00@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3B67F8C8.3090407@earthlink.net> If you make production processes more eficient, you automaticly make more money ;-) Peter mickeym wrote: > Between those two choices, I would pick number 1. There are additional factors to > making money, in addition to production efficiency. I like to say that every > project is a compromise of three factors: quality, time to market, and cost. > Usually, however, one is always sacrificed for the other two. In other words: > good, fast, cheap. Pick two. > > I'll try to get back on-topic: You are correct, in that copyright is like the > prevention of an efficient method of distribution, but it is in favor of giving > the author an opprtunity to capitalize on their creative works. The "incentive to > create" was supposed to be for a limited time, though, and that's where the > balance is supposed to be, too. It tries to be an efficient method to "promote > progress." > > I regret that the result in this situation is that Dmitry is in jail. Some > "progress", hmmm? I am trying to do my part, small though it may be, to release > him as soon as possible. > > mickeym > > DeBug wrote: > > >>I have a question for american people >>What do you think is more important in your business >>1) To earn as much money as possible >>or >>2) To make production process more eficient ? >> >>The reason why i ask this question is that many people on the list >>agree that public should subsidy ( in other words support copyrights ) >>intellectual property production (and i agree with that) but they also think >>more efficient way of doing things should be prevented until copyright expires >>-- >>Best regards, >> DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt >> >>_______________________________________________ >>free-sklyarov mailing list >>free-sklyarov@zork.net >>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov >> > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > -- Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org/ From adunston at jetstream.com Wed Aug 1 05:55:46 2001 From: adunston at jetstream.com (Adrian Dunston) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] 2600 in North Carolina??? Message-ID: >I am in Charlotte, NC and noticed that there is NO 2600 group here. >That was surprising, but what was more shocking was that there >isn't one in Raleigh either! Mark, There was a 2600 group in Raleigh (check your back issues) at Crabtree Valley Mall. According to a friend of mine, each meeting was attended by three or four different lamers wanting to know how to find good pr0n while making free long distance calls. I planned on going to one myself, but the Crabtree Valley group seems to have disbanded. I think Charlotte's a great place for a group. Maybe if you get one together, I'll drive down there. -Adrian P. Dunston From debug at centras.lt Wed Aug 1 06:02:31 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big question In-Reply-To: <3B67F8C8.3090407@earthlink.net> References: <00c101c119de$75ab9de0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> <13016680093.20010801135553@centras.lt> <3B67F4F7.3EFEA00@mindspring.com> <3B67F8C8.3090407@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <5520678860.20010801150231@centras.lt> P> If you make production processes more eficient, you automaticly make P> more money ;-) P> Peter Wrong! What you say is wrong. This is why the question i asked is not trivial and i want to know what people think about it. So far the answer is: choose 1) in order to be able to decide how to accelerate 2) -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From eriksson at uiuc.edu Wed Aug 1 06:07:28 2001 From: eriksson at uiuc.edu (Tim Eriksson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] More Minnesota pictures Message-ID: More photos from the July 30th protest in Minneapolis, Minnesota can be seen at: http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~eriksson/antidmca/freedmitry/mn010730/ -- Tim From pmasloch at earthlink.net Wed Aug 1 06:13:10 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big question References: <00c101c119de$75ab9de0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> <13016680093.20010801135553@centras.lt> <3B67F4F7.3EFEA00@mindspring.com> <3B67F8C8.3090407@earthlink.net> <5520678860.20010801150231@centras.lt> Message-ID: <3B680066.1030407@earthlink.net> Hmm...then i wonder why is the production Industry is so successful with it? Peter DeBug wrote: > P> If you make production processes more eficient, you automaticly make > P> more money ;-) > P> Peter > Wrong! What you say is wrong. > This is why the question i asked is not trivial and i want to know > what people think about it. > So far the answer is: > choose 1) in order to be able to decide how to accelerate 2) > -- Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org/ From keith at indierecords.com Wed Aug 1 07:04:08 2001 From: keith at indierecords.com (Keith Handy) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A natural ally -- Stephen King? Message-ID: <3B680C58.3981@indierecords.com> From: "Daniel Richards" > I don't think he really understands since he told people that if they > downloaded a "second copy" in a different format they should pay > again. That doesn't sound like someone who "gets it" to me. Maybe he *would* get it if he knew the facts about the case. At least he didn't put his readers in jail. Anyway, please everybody try to think of *more* authors that might potentially be natural allies, and don't rule them out too soon just for being uninformed or misinformed -- that's where we come in. I'd try to help with this but I don't read a lot of fiction. I am, however, in the middle of coming up with a raw list of well-known musicians who could potentially speak out against this if they know there is a political prisoner involved -- look for those who speak openly of the evils of their own record label (past or present)/entire industry, or those who have used music as a voice for strong political views. (Another criteria is that they still have to be living, which unfortunately rules out John Lennon and Frank Zappa.) Names that immediately come to my mind are Bob Dylan, Robert Fripp, Peter Gabriel, Courtney Love, Bruce Springsteen, Sting, Roger Waters, and Neil Young. There are surely many, MANY others; please help me here. Now slap me before I get too carried away and organize a "Live Aid"-type benefit concert in my mind. ;) -Keith From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Wed Aug 1 07:07:05 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Macrovision CD Copy Protection Cracked Message-ID: Where there is a scheme, there is a counter scheme. http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/20766.html The bypass, highlighted by European Web site CD Freaks, converts the disc tracks to .wav files in RAM and mounts them as readable volumes. At that point any .wav app can handle the rip. The bypass uses a custom VXD virtual device driver file. James S. Huggins From adunston at jetstream.com Wed Aug 1 07:06:02 2001 From: adunston at jetstream.com (Adrian Dunston) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Buck Rogers Decoder Ring Message-ID: Quick question. Has anyone brought up the fact that the cereal box decoder rings are honest-to-God circumvention devices? This little plastic toys are the real deal. 5 years and $500k for a "Buck Rogers Junior" decoder ring. This brings up another good question. What are the best poster ideas people have had in (front/back) format? E.G. Make decoder rings legal! / Repeal the DMCA WON HCEEPS EERF / FREE DMITRY From pmasloch at earthlink.net Wed Aug 1 07:20:48 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] another example Message-ID: <3B681040.9030005@earthlink.net> another example off "DoJ doesn't like free speach": http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/leggett010801.html Peter -- Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org/ From bobds at blorch.org Wed Aug 1 08:10:11 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big question In-Reply-To: <3B67F8C8.3090407@earthlink.net> References: <00c101c119de$75ab9de0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> <3B67F4F7.3EFEA00@mindspring.com> <3B67F8C8.3090407@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <01080108101100.11385@bitworks> On Wednesday 01 August 2001 05:40, you wrote: > If you make production processes more eficient, you automaticly make > more money ;-) Not necessarily. If you have the most efficient production processes, but you alienate your customers, you make less money. If you have the most efficient production process, but you're making something nobody wants, you lose money. "No, Ma'am, we at the Department do not have a sense of humor that we are aware of." (Oops--did I just quote copyrighted material without a license?) -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From debug at centras.lt Wed Aug 1 08:24:27 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big question In-Reply-To: <01080108101100.11385@bitworks> References: <00c101c119de$75ab9de0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> <3B67F4F7.3EFEA00@mindspring.com> <3B67F8C8.3090407@earthlink.net> <01080108101100.11385@bitworks> Message-ID: <729196263.20010801172427@centras.lt> >> If you make production processes more eficient, you automaticly make >> more money ;-) BS> Not necessarily. If you have the most efficient production processes, but BS> you alienate your customers, you make less money. If you have the most BS> efficient production process, but you're making something nobody wants, you BS> lose money. Furthermore, there are two types of industries - those that make money on increasing production efficiency and those that make money on decrease of production efficiency Encription process requires resources and decrease product usability so it decreases efficiency. And it is being done in order to make more money. Do we really want to subsidy such industries ? I am not interested to pay those guys at Microsoft who write code limiting number of online updates for MS-Windows It is sick - waste of money and resource in order to make more money in order to cripple product more and more. -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From prostoalex at hotbox.ru Wed Aug 1 08:40:23 2001 From: prostoalex at hotbox.ru (Alexander Moskalyuk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] fund for legal proceedings Message-ID: <200108011540.f71FeNN39216@www1.mailru.com> >Phil's chief piece of advice was a legal defense fund >for Dmitry, to be set >up by the lawyer for best results. I have a question. Right after the arrest we had the opportunity to make donations to EFF or to the PayPal account organized by Shmoo.com people. I think the dmitry@shmoo.com people made it clear that whatever money they get it would go to Dmitry. What about the money donated to EFF? I think they made a public statement about the rate of new donations rising substantially, but can we expect that money to go to the legal fund if needed? Since EFF has taken a rather neutral position after the mutual press-release on Monday, my question is - what will happen to all the funds donated to EFF on Dmitry's behalf? Best regards, Alexander Moskalyuk http://www.moskalyuk.com/ ICQ 44065387 From keith at indierecords.com Wed Aug 1 08:46:55 2001 From: keith at indierecords.com (Keith Handy) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: [NotDmcaLa] Long term thoughts [was: Sen. Hatch "commends" DOJ for Sklyarov arrest, IP prosecutions] Message-ID: <3B68246F.6904@indierecords.com> From: "Victor Piterbarg" To: Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 00:05:15 -0700 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: [NotDmcaLa] Long term thoughts [was: Sen. Hatch "commends" DOJ for Sklyarov arrest, IP prosecutions] > It would be great if it was that easy! However, I don't think the artists > you speak of are all that valuable to the corporations. Look at the BIGGEST > bands of the recent times. Britney Spears, N'Synch, Backstreet Boys. These > artists are manufactured by the record labels. These are the "artists" that > make the most money FOR the corporations. And I think that if we approached > Britney Spears with eloquent anti-DMCA arguments, the best we could hope for > is a shiny smile or a giggle. True, but think of it this way: if you could at least raise awareness among the minority of music fans who have some semblance of critical judgement, you've just doubled our support base. Add in the same size base of independent-minded readers of every genre, you've tripled it. The point is, we may be a minority, but we're a smaller minority than need be if we limit the voice to computer programmers. -Keith From SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com Wed Aug 1 09:11:08 2001 From: SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com (Rob McGee) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Russian MFA notice Message-ID: <20010801111108.L3113@hal> It's very short and simple -- here's the English version (watch the word wrap!) http://www.ln.mid.ru/website/brp_4.nsf/e78a48070f128a7b43256999005bcbb3/db64407344373c7743256a9b005b6ead?OpenDocument What does it mean? Do you think they really might help? Rob - /dev/rob0 From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Aug 1 09:59:48 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A natural ally -- Stephen King? In-Reply-To: ; from rabbi@quickie.net on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 09:06:21PM -0700 References: <20010731221438.J3113@hal> Message-ID: <20010801095948.N719@zork.net> Len Sassaman writes: > > > writing letters to the AAP members. Seth has a list of the ones who > > > haven't responded to use yet, I believe. > > > > ... but I'll be glad to help out with this. Point me there, please. > > Seth? You have that list? http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/publishers.html Some of these publishers probably have been contacted, but I can only update the list if people let me know. I've still got a personal list of letters to write, but I'm busy at the moment writing letters on behalf of EFF. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 12:08:10 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Buck Rogers Decoder Ring In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010801190810.73149.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com> how about shrink wrap around a magazine, software, as a effective circumvention device? --- Adrian Dunston wrote: > Quick question. Has anyone brought up the fact that > the cereal box decoder > rings are honest-to-God circumvention devices? This > little plastic toys are > the real deal. 5 years and $500k for a "Buck Rogers > Junior" decoder ring. > > This brings up another good question. What are the > best poster ideas people > have had in (front/back) format? > > E.G. > Make decoder rings legal! / Repeal the DMCA > WON HCEEPS EERF / FREE DMITRY > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From neale at woozle.org Wed Aug 1 12:09:07 2001 From: neale at woozle.org (Neale Pickett) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Calling Portland... Message-ID: Is there anyone on this list from Portland? Is the organizer for Portland here? I'd like to have someplace to direct Portland folks (Seattle is a little far of a drive) and would be happy to donate a mailing list and some web space to our cousins down south. Neale From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 12:13:26 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] More Minnesota pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010801191326.15722.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> great pics - love the one of the (father & son?) holding hands and a sign which says "if i make a copy it is fair use - if i help you do it it is a felony" they say a pic is a 1k words - this has to be 10k min note this accurately implies that a copy machine can also be an "anti circumvention device"!!! --- Tim Eriksson wrote: > More photos from the July 30th protest in > Minneapolis, Minnesota can be > seen at: > > http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~eriksson/antidmca/freedmitry/mn010730/ > > -- Tim > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 12:17:02 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's lawyer In-Reply-To: <20010801081435.E18961@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010801191702.59181.qmail@web13903.mail.yahoo.com> go declan! --- Declan McCullagh wrote: > It took me about 10 seconds to find out the name of > Phil's attorney > based on posts here. I don't know why you'd expect > journalists (who > were at the Zimmermann talk) not to include this in > their articles. > If you or Alex want to make a serious case (and > hand-waving about > complicating negotiations won't do it), you should > post that here or > contact reporters covering this case directly and > state your > arguments. Otherwise it'll be in news articles soon > enough and no > amount of archive-editing will work. > > -Declan > > > > On Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 03:21:02AM -0700, > Christopher R. Maden wrote: > > Alex Katalov contacted me off-list with a little > more > > information. Publicizing the name of the lawyer > would complicate > > negotiations for a variety of reasons (and no, I > still don't know who it > > is) and would not help to get Dmitry out of jail > faster. So I'm satisfied, > > and I hope that anyone else who heard Phil's slip > will just forget it. > > > > (In fact, if the listmoms wouldn't mind, could my > report on Phil's talk be > > edited in the archives?) > > > > -crism > > -- > > David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free > Dmitry! For great justice. > > > > === Freelance Text Nerd: > === > > PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC > AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From jeme at brelin.net Wed Aug 1 12:19:18 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Calling Portland... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 1 Aug 2001, Neale Pickett wrote: > Is there anyone on this list from Portland? Is the organizer for > Portland here? I'd like to have someplace to direct Portland folks > (Seattle is a little far of a drive) and would be happy to donate a > mailing list and some web space to our cousins down south. There's a mailing list at While I personally have had to deal with other things for the past week, there's nothing keeping folks from moving forward on that list. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 12:30:32 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big question In-Reply-To: <13016680093.20010801135553@centras.lt> Message-ID: <20010801193032.62314.qmail@web13903.mail.yahoo.com> hey debug i think your email, while raising important questions unnecessarily complicates an already complicated question. why bring in efficiency? see stallmans article for the basis of the public's exchange of a monopoly (by definition inefficient) on ip in exchange for more ip! this exchange has nothing to do with an individuals "natural right" to investigate whatever the hell they want to and tell somebody else about their discovery during the investigation. we have so long tolerated these incremental infringements (not pun intended) that some think they have a right to direct and determine an individual's thoughts!! how absurd and insane to tell dmitry he must go to prison if he investigates and reports whatever appeals to him!! no society can survive much less become efficient which enforces such laws!!! --- DeBug wrote: > I have a question for american people > What do you think is more important in your business > 1) To earn as much money as possible > or > 2) To make production process more efficient ? > > The reason why i ask this question is that many > people on the list > agree that public should subsidy ( in other words > support copyrights ) > intellectual property production (and i agree with > that) but they also think > more efficient way of doing things should be > prevented until copyright expires > -- > Best regards, > DeBug > mailto:debug@centras.lt > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From neale at woozle.org Wed Aug 1 12:36:15 2001 From: neale at woozle.org (Neale Pickett) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Calling Portland... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jeme A Brelin writes: > There's a mailing list at > > While I personally have had to deal with other things for the past week, > there's nothing keeping folks from moving forward on that list. Excellent! Thanks, Jeme. I'll send the portland folks your way. From callahanpb at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 13:17:25 2001 From: callahanpb at yahoo.com (Paul Callahan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov=Napster according to Senator Boxer Message-ID: <20010801201725.15162.qmail@web13106.mail.yahoo.com> Gotta wonder what kind of bot they have responding to Senator Boxer's email. Here's the response to a letter I sent "regrading" Sklyarov and DMCA: Dear Mr. Callahan: Thank you for your recent communication regrading Napster. As you may already know, both the United States District Court and a United States Court of Appeals have ruled that Napster encourages and assists copyright infringement of copyrighted music. This decision restates the important fact that in our country we value property rights, whether its music that a writer has created or the car that you drive. Neither can legally be taken from you without compensation. I strongly support the advancement of technology and innovation on the Internet and desire that all consumers be able to get music in the electronic marketplace. But such advances must also accompany respect for others' creations. Those who invest in the creation of music, whether it be an artist or record label, deserve to be paid for the use of their music. The technology Napster employs holds great promise. It is my hope that such peer to peer technology will be available legitimately and that the idea that Napster has invented will become available to consumers in a legal manner very soon. Thank you for contacting me on this important issue. --Paul __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From vortextube at earthlink.net Wed Aug 1 13:31:25 2001 From: vortextube at earthlink.net (Robb Hill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DC Protest? Message-ID: Is anyone planning a protest in DC? Perhaps outsite of the DOJ, Whitehouse, Capitol, or any corporate Adobe offices in DC? From callahanpb at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 13:35:01 2001 From: callahanpb at yahoo.com (Paul Callahan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov=Napster according to Senator Boxer In-Reply-To: <20010801201725.15162.qmail@web13106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010801203501.66137.qmail@web13102.mail.yahoo.com> My response to Senator Botster: Dear Senator Boxer: I appreciate your timely response. You may be unaware that my letter did not concern Napster, but in fact concerned Dmitry Sklyarov, a visiting scholar who is being held in federal custody by our government. His home is in Russia and he is currently being held far from his family despite having committed no crime in his own country, despite that he poses no danger to our society, and despite the fact that his original accusers Adobe Software have disavowed any support of his arrest. As a computer scientist who has presented research both here and abroad, I take a great interest in our treatment of visiting computer researchers. I also consider the anti-circumvention provision of DMCA to be an unworkable law, and its criminal prosecution to be a gross injustice. If you have not done so already, please inform yourself on the implications of DMCA to the longstanding notion of fair use in copyright law. Rep. Rick Boucher (D-VA) has written on this topic: http://www.house.gov/boucher/docs/fairuse.htm I eagerly await any relevant information you can supply regarding your stance on DMCA and the Dmitry Sklyarov case in particular. Sincerely, Paul Callahan --- Paul Callahan wrote: > Gotta wonder what kind of bot they have responding > to > Senator Boxer's email. Here's the response to a > letter > I sent "regrading" Sklyarov and DMCA: > > Dear Mr. Callahan: > > Thank you for your recent communication > regrading Napster. As you may already know, both > the United States District Court and a United > States Court of Appeals have ruled that Napster > encourages and assists copyright infringement of > copyrighted music. This decision restates the > important fact that in our country we value > property rights, whether its music that a writer > has created or the car that you drive. Neither > can legally be taken from you without > compensation. > > I strongly support the advancement of > technology and innovation on the Internet and > desire that all consumers be able to get music in > the electronic marketplace. But such advances must > also accompany respect for others' creations. > Those who invest in the creation of music, whether > it be an artist or record label, deserve to be paid > for the use of their music. > > The technology Napster employs holds great > promise. It is my hope that such peer to peer > technology will be available legitimately and that > the idea that Napster has invented will become > available to consumers in a legal manner very soon. > > Thank you for contacting me on this important > issue. > > --Paul > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Wed Aug 1 13:39:22 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Russian MFA notice In-Reply-To: <20010801111108.L3113@hal> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Rob McGee wrote: > It's very short and simple -- here's the English version (watch the word > wrap!) > http://www.ln.mid.ru/website/brp_4.nsf/e78a48070f128a7b43256999005bcbb3/db64407344373c7743256a9b005b6ead?OpenDocument > > What does it mean? Do you think they really might help? Here's the Russian original: http://www.ln.mid.ru/WEBSITE/BRP_4.NSF/fa711a859c4b939643256999005bcbbc/b9dab08d2da3447743256a9b0048053a?OpenDocument The English translation is accurate, FWIW. What does it mean? Not much more than it says. Will they help? I wouldn't count on it. Or at least wouldn't count on hearing anything about it other than in heavy diplomatic doublespeak up until they actually finish whatever negotiations they _might_ be doing. -- -alexf From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 13:49:31 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov=Napster according to Senator Boxer In-Reply-To: <20010801201725.15162.qmail@web13106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010801204931.36759.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> lol - makes you feel represented huh:) Barbara Boxer uses one of those cute, trite and quite untrue platitudes that are uttered without thought: "... Neither can legally be taken from you without compensation..." in america we are granted property rights in exchange for granting property rights. there is nothing immutable about those rights - they are BALANCED exchanges. when they become imbalanced (as in the case of the DMCA and Dmitry's prosecution) we have a duty to immediately move by all lawful means to re-balance them. im sure barbara meant to say the government does not take property without compensation, but even this is balanced say in the case of zoning where the government is continually taking property rights without compensation. --- Paul Callahan wrote: > Gotta wonder what kind of bot they have responding > to > Senator Boxer's email. Here's the response to a > letter > I sent "regrading" Sklyarov and DMCA: > > Dear Mr. Callahan: > > Thank you for your recent communication > regrading Napster. As you may already know, both > the United States District Court and a United > States Court of Appeals have ruled that Napster > encourages and assists copyright infringement of > copyrighted music. This decision restates the > important fact that in our country we value > property rights, whether its music that a writer > has created or the car that you drive. Neither > can legally be taken from you without > compensation. > > I strongly support the advancement of > technology and innovation on the Internet and > desire that all consumers be able to get music in > the electronic marketplace. But such advances must > also accompany respect for others' creations. > Those who invest in the creation of music, whether > it be an artist or record label, deserve to be paid > for the use of their music. > > The technology Napster employs holds great > promise. It is my hope that such peer to peer > technology will be available legitimately and that > the idea that Napster has invented will become > available to consumers in a legal manner very soon. > > Thank you for contacting me on this important > issue. > > --Paul > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From callahanpb at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 13:56:04 2001 From: callahanpb at yahoo.com (Paul Callahan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Just how good a cryptographer is Sklyarov anyway? Message-ID: <20010801205604.74783.qmail@web13103.mail.yahoo.com> All the anti-DMCA pro-Sklyarov comments have pointed out the childish weakness of the Adobe encryption method (comparison to rot-13, etc.). I assume Sklyarov is a very clever guy--he's a grad student in computer science, just like I used to be ;) and he has been studying cryptography. The fact that anyone managed to break Adobe's encryption shows that it's too weak, no doubt about it. But is it really a laughably bad system or did Sklyarov do some impressive code-breaking? I suppose if I could see his talk I would know for myself, but I didn't and don't know where to find a transcript. Anyway, I had an interesting and disconcerting chain of thoughts today while commuting to work. I'm not sure that our national security goon squad has noticed that the cold war is over. Is it possible that someone up there will think it's a feather in his cap to "capture" a "Russian cryptographer."? Maybe this is far-fetched. I realize Dmitry is a student and privately employed software engineer. I'm just wondering if our federal government is sophisticated enough to make that distinction. Any thoughts? --Paul __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From pmasloch at earthlink.net Wed Aug 1 14:03:39 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov=Napster according to Senator Boxer In-Reply-To: <20010801203501.66137.qmail@web13102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Probably they have some part-time students sitting there and sending out already made e-mails :-))) Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org My response to Senator Botster: Dear Senator Boxer: I appreciate your timely response. You may be unaware that my letter did not concern Napster, but in fact concerned Dmitry Sklyarov, a visiting scholar who is being held in federal custody by our government. His home is in Russia and he is currently being held far from his family despite having committed no crime in his own country, despite that he poses no danger to our society, and despite the fact that his original accusers Adobe Software have disavowed any support of his arrest. As a computer scientist who has presented research both here and abroad, I take a great interest in our treatment of visiting computer researchers. I also consider the anti-circumvention provision of DMCA to be an unworkable law, and its criminal prosecution to be a gross injustice. If you have not done so already, please inform yourself on the implications of DMCA to the longstanding notion of fair use in copyright law. Rep. Rick Boucher (D-VA) has written on this topic: http://www.house.gov/boucher/docs/fairuse.htm I eagerly await any relevant information you can supply regarding your stance on DMCA and the Dmitry Sklyarov case in particular. Sincerely, Paul Callahan --- Paul Callahan wrote: > Gotta wonder what kind of bot they have responding > to > Senator Boxer's email. Here's the response to a > letter > I sent "regrading" Sklyarov and DMCA: > > Dear Mr. Callahan: > > Thank you for your recent communication > regrading Napster. As you may already know, both > the United States District Court and a United > States Court of Appeals have ruled that Napster > encourages and assists copyright infringement of > copyrighted music. This decision restates the > important fact that in our country we value > property rights, whether its music that a writer > has created or the car that you drive. Neither > can legally be taken from you without > compensation. > > I strongly support the advancement of > technology and innovation on the Internet and > desire that all consumers be able to get music in > the electronic marketplace. But such advances must > also accompany respect for others' creations. > Those who invest in the creation of music, whether > it be an artist or record label, deserve to be paid > for the use of their music. > > The technology Napster employs holds great > promise. It is my hope that such peer to peer > technology will be available legitimately and that > the idea that Napster has invented will become > available to consumers in a legal manner very soon. > > Thank you for contacting me on this important > issue. > > --Paul > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 14:06:03 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Just how good a cryptographer is Sklyarov anyway? In-Reply-To: <20010801205604.74783.qmail@web13103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010801210603.67090.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com> based on public data ive seen there is nothing novel in either the felton or sklyarov techniques. as far as i know neither case required original thinking. (which is not to say they did not require artistic applications of existing thought.) --- Paul Callahan wrote: > All the anti-DMCA pro-Sklyarov > comments have pointed out the childish weakness of > the Adobe encryption method (comparison to rot-13, > etc.). > I assume Sklyarov is a very clever guy--he's a grad > student in computer science, just like I used to be > ;) > and he has been studying cryptography. The fact > that > anyone managed to break Adobe's encryption shows > that > it's too weak, no doubt about it. But is it really a > > laughably bad system or did Sklyarov do > some impressive code-breaking? I suppose if I could > see his talk I would know for myself, but I didn't > and don't know where to find a transcript. > > Anyway, I had an interesting and disconcerting chain > > of thoughts today while commuting to work. I'm not > sure that our national security goon squad has > noticed > that the cold war is over. Is it possible that > someone > up there will think it's a feather in his cap to > "capture" a "Russian cryptographer."? Maybe this is > far-fetched. I realize Dmitry is a student and > privately employed software engineer. I'm just > wondering if our federal government is sophisticated > enough to make that distinction. Any thoughts? > > --Paul > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From drumz at best.com Wed Aug 1 14:07:50 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov=Napster according to Senator Boxer In-Reply-To: <20010801201725.15162.qmail@web13106.mail.yahoo.com> from Paul Callahan at "Aug 1, 1 01:17:25 pm" Message-ID: <200108012107.OAA03402@shell3.ba.best.com> > Gotta wonder what kind of bot they have responding to > Senator Boxer's email. Here's the response to a > letter I sent "regrading" Sklyarov and DMCA: > > Dear Mr. Callahan: > > Thank you for your recent communication > regrading Napster. -- #!/usr/local/bin/perl # SPACE: Sheeple-Pacifying Autoresponder for Congressional Email # (C) 2001 Albert Gore, Jr., Inventor of the Internet require 'sheepleRoutines.pl'; $myName = "Senator Barbara Boxer"; $stateName = "California"; $stateAbbrev = "CA"; while () { $sheepleMessage .= $_; } if ($sheepleMessage !~ /\b($stateName|$stateAbbrev)\b/si) { &placateSheepleWithAutoresponse ($areYouSUREYoureMyConstituent); } elsif ($sheepleMessage =~ /\b(Napster|DMCA|Felten|Sklyarov|DeCSS)\b/si) { &placateSheepleWithAutoresponse ($napsterBad); } elsif {$sheepleMessage =~ s/\bBill\s*of\s*Rights\b/si) { &placateSheepleWithAutoresponse ($whatBillOfRightsIsThat); # ...snipped for the sake of brevity... } else { &placateSheepleWithAutoresponse ($yourConcernsAreImportantToMe); } undef $sheepleMessage; -- There may still be a few bugs in the system. Ethan -- "Go away or I will replace you with a very small shell script." From neale at woozle.org Wed Aug 1 14:13:23 2001 From: neale at woozle.org (Neale Pickett) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov=Napster according to Senator Boxer In-Reply-To: <200108012107.OAA03402@shell3.ba.best.com> References: <200108012107.OAA03402@shell3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: Ethan Straffin writes: > #!/usr/local/bin/perl > # SPACE: Sheeple-Pacifying Autoresponder for Congressional Email > # (C) 2001 Albert Gore, Jr., Inventor of the Internet Whether or not this script or something like it is respondign to email, it highlights an important point. The harder it is for someone to ignore what you're saying, the more effect it's going to have. A postal-mail form letter carries more weight than email, a unique letter more than a form letter, a legible handwritten letter more than a typed one, and a personal appearance would be the trump card. I'm not sure where a phone call would fit into all of this. From douglay at relicorp.com Wed Aug 1 14:23:04 2001 From: douglay at relicorp.com (douglay@relicorp.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com Message-ID: <200108012123.f71LN4Z02438@atlanta.pop3now.com> Anyone interested a quick puke should click here: http://www.inside.com/product/product.asp?entity=&pf_ID=E8EECFA3-CBD1- 447E-952C-CC16283D266C If it wasn't clear before, this article should make it crystal- clear: The publishing industry, and its allies in the music and film industries, cannot tolerate the free exchange of digital information across the Internet, and are willing to go to any lengths whatsoever to see that the free exchange of digital information is squelched. Anyone for a march on the AAP offices during Usenix? These people have basically declared war on programmers. -Doug -- Pop3Now Personal, Manage 5 Email Accounts From 1 Secure Window Sign Up Today! Visit http://www.pop3now.com/personal From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Wed Aug 1 14:28:52 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:03 2005 Subject: kids & PR [Re: [free-sklyarov] More Minnesota pictures] In-Reply-To: <20010801191326.15722.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, alfee cube wrote: > great pics - love the one of the (father & son?) > holding hands and a sign which says > "if i make a copy it is fair use - if i help you do it > it is a felony" > they say a pic is a 1k words - this has to be 10k min This is the picture Alfee is talking about: http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~eriksson/antidmca/freedmitry/mn010730/dcp_1489.jpg I think there's a point that needs to be made here -- I really do think that photo is VERY effective PR for all of us. It does wonders for shifting our image from "disgruntled geeks" (which I'm quite happy with, but the public won't be too sympathetic to) to "average American citizen and family man whose rights are being trampled upon" (which should strike a much better chord with the public). So, to all the parents out there -- if possible (and plausible), consider bringing your kids to the rallies. It can be a good chance to teach them a lesson or two about taking an active part in the way society is run, and, I bet, is REALLY DAMN GOOD PR. Actually, if permission can be obtained from the photographer and the person pictureed, this could also be a good photo to give to the media if they ask for photos, too... -- -alexf From drumz at best.com Wed Aug 1 14:52:42 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov=Napster according to Senator Boxer In-Reply-To: from Neale Pickett at "Aug 1, 1 02:13:23 pm" Message-ID: <200108012152.OAA20435@shell3.ba.best.com> > Ethan Straffin writes: > > #!/usr/local/bin/perl > > # SPACE: Sheeple-Pacifying Autoresponder for Congressional Email > > # (C) 2001 Albert Gore, Jr., Inventor of the Internet > > Whether or not this script or something like it is respondign to email, > it highlights an important point. The harder it is for someone to > ignore what you're saying, the more effect it's going to have. A > postal-mail form letter carries more weight than email, a unique letter > more than a form letter, a legible handwritten letter more than a typed > one, and a personal appearance would be the trump card. > > I'm not sure where a phone call would fit into all of this. Based on the discussions I've seen on other activism lists, my impression is that phone calls can be very effective. I would put them just below personal visits and just above faxes. It's a lot harder to ignore someone when you're trying to get them off the phone politely than if you can simply spend five seconds skimming a letter or fax and choosing the (in)appropriate form response. Emails really are next to useless. For one thing, Congresscritters get tons of them, primarily from Internet activism sites that send out form emails by the truckload. For another thing, it's virtually impossible to verify constituency. I am quite certain that many politicians *do* rely on automated filtering to various degrees. If you can get through those filters and receive anything resembling a thoughtful response, more power to you; you're the rare exception. BTW, have I mentioned telegrams? I've met activists who swear by them. Ethan -- "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation." -- Herbert Spencer From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 14:57:53 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: <200108012123.f71LN4Z02438@atlanta.pop3now.com> Message-ID: <20010801215753.96809.qmail@web13903.mail.yahoo.com> nice to see someone on the other side trying to articulate a case for the DMCA's infringement of our fundamental rights:) unfortunately we are up against much more than roger parloff's articulation:( --- douglay@relicorp.com wrote: > > Anyone interested a quick puke should click here: > > http://www.inside.com/product/product.asp?entity=&pf_ID=E8EECFA3-CBD1- > 447E-952C-CC16283D266C > > If it wasn't clear before, this article should make > it crystal- > clear: > > The publishing industry, and its allies in the music > and film > industries, cannot tolerate the free exchange of > digital information > across the Internet, and are willing to go to any > lengths whatsoever > to see that the free exchange of digital information > is squelched. > > Anyone for a march on the AAP offices during Usenix? > These people > have basically declared war on programmers. > > -Doug > > > -- > Pop3Now Personal, Manage 5 Email Accounts From 1 > Secure Window > Sign Up Today! Visit > http://www.pop3now.com/personal > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 14:59:29 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov=Napster according to Senator Boxer In-Reply-To: <200108012107.OAA03402@shell3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <20010801215929.76854.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com> LMAO --- Ethan Straffin wrote: > > Gotta wonder what kind of bot they have responding > to > > Senator Boxer's email. Here's the response to a > > letter I sent "regrading" Sklyarov and DMCA: > > > > Dear Mr. Callahan: > > > > Thank you for your recent communication > > regrading Napster. > > -- > #!/usr/local/bin/perl > # SPACE: Sheeple-Pacifying Autoresponder for > Congressional Email > # (C) 2001 Albert Gore, Jr., Inventor of the > Internet > > require 'sheepleRoutines.pl'; > > $myName = "Senator Barbara Boxer"; > $stateName = "California"; > $stateAbbrev = "CA"; > > while () { > $sheepleMessage .= $_; > } > > if ($sheepleMessage !~ > /\b($stateName|$stateAbbrev)\b/si) { > &placateSheepleWithAutoresponse > ($areYouSUREYoureMyConstituent); > } elsif ($sheepleMessage =~ > /\b(Napster|DMCA|Felten|Sklyarov|DeCSS)\b/si) { > &placateSheepleWithAutoresponse ($napsterBad); > } elsif {$sheepleMessage =~ > s/\bBill\s*of\s*Rights\b/si) { > &placateSheepleWithAutoresponse > ($whatBillOfRightsIsThat); > # ...snipped for the sake of brevity... > } else { > &placateSheepleWithAutoresponse > ($yourConcernsAreImportantToMe); > } > undef $sheepleMessage; > -- > > There may still be a few bugs in the system. > > Ethan > -- > "Go away or I will replace you with a very small > shell script." > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From neale at woozle.org Wed Aug 1 15:00:00 2001 From: neale at woozle.org (Neale Pickett) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov=Napster according to Senator Boxer In-Reply-To: <200108012152.OAA20435@shell3.ba.best.com> References: <200108012152.OAA20435@shell3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: Ethan Straffin writes: [ insightful stuff about contacting people in Washington DC ] > BTW, have I mentioned telegrams? I've met activists who swear by them. What about *singing* telegrams? Maybe we could get someone to dress up as Barney and visit our Senator's office: I love you, You love me, Please let go of Duh-mi-try! (I'm sure this has been tried many times before and singing telegrams are refused. But it sure would be fun!) From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 15:04:30 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov=Napster according to Senator Boxer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010801220430.78011.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com> LOLLLLLLLLL - now this is original thought! still laughing! --- Neale Pickett wrote: > Ethan Straffin writes: > > [ insightful stuff about contacting people in > Washington DC ] > > > BTW, have I mentioned telegrams? I've met > activists who swear by them. > > What about *singing* telegrams? Maybe we could get > someone to dress up > as Barney and visit our Senator's office: > > I love you, > You love me, > Please let go of > Duh-mi-try! > > (I'm sure this has been tried many times before and > singing telegrams > are refused. But it sure would be fun!) > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From mw at themail.com Wed Aug 1 15:10:12 2001 From: mw at themail.com (mw@themail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov=Napster according to Senator Boxer Message-ID: <200108011809744.SM00361@mail.TheMail.com> oh, I am soooo into telegrams. western union is fast, cheap and easy...why I think I'll have to send one now. -m ****** Original Message ****** From: Neale Pickett Sent: Wed 08/01/2001 06:01 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov=Napster according to Senator Boxer Ethan Straffin writes: > > > >[ insightful stuff about contacting people in Washington DC ] > > > >> BTW, have I mentioned telegrams? I've met activists who swear by >them. > > > >What about *singing* telegrams? Maybe we could get someone to dress up > >as Barney and visit our Senator's office: > > > > I love you, > > You love me, > > Please let go of > > Duh-mi-try! > > > >(I'm sure this has been tried many times before and singing telegrams > >are refused. But it sure would be fun!) > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >target="_new">http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________________________ TheMail.com - Full featured premium email you can count on. Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ From rms at privacyfoundation.org Wed Aug 1 15:36:39 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: <200108012123.f71LN4Z02438@atlanta.pop3now.com> Message-ID: <00d901c11ada$6fbc7920$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Yep what a perfectly awful article. What bothers me so much about it is that the author presents his assumptions as fact. Some of the more wild examples are: - "Most of the people coming to Sklyarov's defense fully appreciate that some sort of anti-circumvention legislation like the DMCA is crucial to maintaining meaningful copyright protection in the digital world." - "Nor should Sklyarov's July 16 arrest have come as a surprise to either ElcomSoft or Sklyarov, unless ElcomSoft was cruelly keeping Sklyarov in the dark about Adobe's dissatisfaction with ElcomSoft's business operations." - "The cat is then out of the bag and any attempt to bring a copyright infringement charge against the individual who originally uploaded it becomes laughably futile, even assuming it were possible to identify that individual, which it usually isn't." What's interesting is that the software industry has had to deal the challenges of copyright protection in the "digital world" now for 20 years. The industry has thrived in spite of the difficult of preventing the wholesale copying of software. Just ask Bill Gates, the richest man in the world. The book publishing industry is now getting ready to face these same challenges as they tried to create a marketplace for eBooks. Wholesale copying of books seem to be their "bogey man in closet". Richard -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net] On Behalf Of douglay@relicorp.com Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 5:23 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com Anyone interested a quick puke should click here: http://www.inside.com/product/product.asp?entity=&pf_ID=E8EECFA3-CBD1- 447E-952C-CC16283D266C If it wasn't clear before, this article should make it crystal- clear: The publishing industry, and its allies in the music and film industries, cannot tolerate the free exchange of digital information across the Internet, and are willing to go to any lengths whatsoever to see that the free exchange of digital information is squelched. Anyone for a march on the AAP offices during Usenix? These people have basically declared war on programmers. -Doug -- Pop3Now Personal, Manage 5 Email Accounts From 1 Secure Window Sign Up Today! Visit http://www.pop3now.com/personal _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Wed Aug 1 15:34:40 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] More Minnesota pictures Message-ID: I will forward this message to the DMCA-minnesota list in hopes of obtaining such permission. The gentleman pictured may not subscribe to the list, as he was actually on vacation and resides outside Minnesota. I believe I have an email address for him, and will try to get in touch. Then we are left with the gentleman who took the picture, who subscribes to both lists. I will only seek to find out if the people are amenable to the idea generally, specifics ought to be worked out with them personally. Anecdote: this gentleman was one of the first to arrive and before I was clear on whether he was participating or just curious, he asked (paraphrasing) how many liberals would be coming. I responded that the issue is neither liberal or conservative, so there would probably be a range. The picture demonstrates that the issue crosses "typical" ideological boundaries. PS-thanks to the photographer. The eyemodule pictures are a sorry substitute for pictures like these. Free Dmitry. Repeal the DMCA. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ > Actually, if permission can be obtained from the photographer and the > person pictureed, this could also be a good photo to give to the media > if they ask for photos, too... > > -- > -alexf From callahanpb at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 16:00:31 2001 From: callahanpb at yahoo.com (Paul Callahan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: <00d901c11ada$6fbc7920$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20010801230031.18062.qmail@web13104.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Richard M. Smith" wrote: [assumptions presented as facts] > - "Nor should Sklyarov's July 16 arrest have come > as a surprise > to either ElcomSoft or Sklyarov, unless > ElcomSoft was cruelly > keeping Sklyarov in the dark about Adobe's > dissatisfaction with > ElcomSoft's business operations." Unless Sklyarov wanted to become the Gandhi of the anti-DMCA movement, you *bet* he was surprised! Does Parloff seriously believe that Sklyarov flew to the US expecting to wind up in federal custody? He's either being disingenuous, not thinking (my vote), or imagines that Sklyarov was trying to make a martyr of himself (highly unlikely). However, this article contradicts a point I made in a slashdot reply I posted (below). If the advocates of DMCA are bothering to respond, this is a good sign. It means Sklyarov supporters are being taken seriously. Here's what I wrote earlier: But isn't it interesting that we aren't seeing a lot of editorials explaining in detail why a non-dangerous alleged offender of a disputed law *should* be held without bail? I mean, if someone can point me to an article that says "Yes, for the good of society, Sklyarov should be under lock and key and here's why." then I'd be very interested in reading it. But it took just a feather's touch of pressure to get Adobe to back down from that position. It's untenable under any reasonable standard of the legitimate use of force. Finally, there's no PR campaign from the pro-DMCA, pro-arrest camp. Why? Well, because there's no way to *put* a positive spin on using excessive force against a relatively powerless individual to settle a corporate dispute. So in this case, the best spin, the best PR, is simply no publicity at all. The average American who has heard the story at all simply believes that a "Russian hacker" has been apprehended by the FBI. This vaguely suggests that there must have been some sort of national security threat. The supporters of DMCA would like it for things to stay this way. Here's the sad truth of the matter: power doesn't need reason or persuasion to justify itself. That's why those in favor of Sklyarov's arrest have been eerily silent. --Paul __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From krw5 at qwest.net Wed Aug 1 16:32:54 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Anyone suppose that DMCA also outlaws... Message-ID: <01080116325403.28314@stumpy> ...use of xxd, hexdump, or khexedit? When the encryption of the binary you're looking at is as weak as ROT-13, just viewing the raw binary nearly constitutes "circumvention" doesn't it? -rk ------------------------------------------- !!! Free Dmitry !!! http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.anti-dmca.org From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 16:45:43 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: <20010801230031.18062.qmail@web13104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010801234543.9085.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> it will not surprise me if when the dmitry and felton threads are fully traced and connected, the controlling node(s) relate directly or indirectly to the still smoldering encryption battlefield(s). --- Paul Callahan wrote: > --- "Richard M. Smith" > wrote: > [assumptions presented as facts] > > > - "Nor should Sklyarov's July 16 arrest have > come > > as a surprise > > to either ElcomSoft or Sklyarov, unless > > ElcomSoft was cruelly > > keeping Sklyarov in the dark about Adobe's > > dissatisfaction with > > ElcomSoft's business operations." > > Unless Sklyarov wanted to become the Gandhi of > the anti-DMCA movement, you *bet* he was surprised! > > Does Parloff seriously believe that Sklyarov flew to > the US expecting to wind up in federal custody? > He's either being disingenuous, not thinking (my > vote), or imagines that Sklyarov was trying to > make a martyr of himself (highly unlikely). > > However, this article contradicts a point I made in > a slashdot reply I posted (below). If the advocates > > of DMCA are bothering to respond, this is a good > sign. It means Sklyarov supporters are being taken > seriously. > > Here's what I wrote earlier: > > But isn't it interesting that we aren't seeing a > lot > of editorials explaining in detail why a > non-dangerous > alleged offender of a disputed law *should* be held > without bail? I mean, if someone can point me to an > article that says "Yes, for the good of society, > Sklyarov should be under lock and key and here's > why." > then I'd be very interested in reading it. But it > took > just a feather's touch of pressure to get Adobe to > back down from that position. It's untenable under > any > reasonable standard of the legitimate use of force. > > Finally, there's no PR campaign from the pro-DMCA, > pro-arrest camp. Why? Well, because there's no way > to > *put* a positive spin on using excessive force > against > a relatively powerless individual to settle a > corporate dispute. So in this case, the best spin, > the > best PR, is simply no publicity at all. The average > American who has heard the story at all simply > believes that a "Russian hacker" has been > apprehended > by the FBI. This vaguely suggests that there must > have > been some sort of national security threat. The > supporters of DMCA would like it for things to stay > this way. > > Here's the sad truth of the matter: power doesn't > need > reason or persuasion to justify itself. That's why > those in favor of Sklyarov's arrest have been eerily > silent. > > --Paul > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Wed Aug 1 17:08:29 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A Modest Proposal: the opposing viewpoint Message-ID: Having by now talked to several people who do not agree with our arguments against DoJ/FBI's prosecution of Dmitry, it now occurs to me that we could improve our public image substantially by providing people new to our cause with full access to the opposing viewpoint. Personally, on several prior occasions when I first heard about a political cause on which I was ambivalent, the lack of information from the "other side" on all materials passed out by activists has irritated me to the point of losing all respect for the activist groups and becoming adverse to their cause. I think our case is strong enough that we can display opposing viewpoints and STILL have high hopes for turning most people our way. Providing full access and visibility to the opposing viewpoint, I assert, will do wonders for our credibility in the eyes of the questioning. Furthermore, for any given "opposing viewpoint" item, we can post our counterarguments as well, for an even stronger effect. Hence my proposal, mainly to freesklyarov.org folks, but CC'ed to the list to get people's opinions: 1. Add a prominent "Opposing Viewpoints" section, and include links to the most visible articles which defend Dmitry's arrest. In particular, make sure you link to the following: Original complaint: http://www.usaondca.com/press/assets/applets/2001_07_17_sklyarov.pdf AAP's press release: http://www.publishers.org/home/press/index.htm Inside.com article: http://www.inside.com/product/product.asp?entity=&pf_ID=E8EECFA3-CBD1-447E-952C-CC16283D266C (please remind me if there are some other PROMINENT writeups that I missed; we probably shouldn't waste energy on random messageboard posts and such; also, it's probably best to link to only the most "blatantly opposite" writeups rather than semi-neutral ones [like the "Don't Judge an eBook Case By Its Coverage" article on yahoo]) 2. If anyone wants to write up a SINGLE well-worded complete rebuttal to the arguments of any particular item linked in this new section, that would be particularly helpful (this someone being well-known would also be a plus, of course, but is not a necessity). Comments/additions? -- -alexf From callahanpb at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 17:14:53 2001 From: callahanpb at yahoo.com (Paul Callahan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ACM letter to Senator Feinstein Message-ID: <20010802001453.23983.qmail@web13104.mail.yahoo.com> http://www.acm.org/usacm/IP/dmca-feinstein-letter.html I'm suddenly proud to say that this is *my* professional organization. ACM rocks! Anyway, Barbara Simons and Gene Spafford rock. And so far, they seem to be setting official ACM policy. "We recently read that you had heard of no credible opposition to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). As the Co-Chairs of the U.S. Public Policy Committee of the Association for Computing Machinery (ACM), we are writing to inform you that ACM has consistently opposed the anti-circumvention provisions of the DMCA." Of course, I get the feeling that ACM doesn't carry quite the weight as, say, AARP. --Paul ( callahanp@acm.org ) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From david at lupercalia.net Wed Aug 1 17:26:59 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DC Protest? In-Reply-To: ; from vortextube@earthlink.net on Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 04:31:03PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010801202659.A12705@lupercalia.net> On Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 04:31:03PM -0400, Robb Hill wrote: > Is anyone planning a protest in DC? Perhaps outsite of the DOJ, Whitehouse, > Capitol, or any corporate Adobe offices in DC? We are coordinating with Usenix to have a presence. That will be the week of August 13-17, in downtown Washington. We're having a signmaking party in anticipation of providing them to many Usenix folks for a rally, which will be this Saturday at 3:00. Write privately for the address. I'll announce a Usenix rally date as soon as I can set one -- Thursday or Friday of that week. -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri Sklyarov! http://www.freesklyarov.org Washington DC Protests http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca A "secure" eBook is an eBook that blind users can't have read aloud to them if the publisher didn't want it read aloud. -- Seth David Schoen From douglay at relicorp.com Wed Aug 1 21:35:51 2001 From: douglay at relicorp.com (Doug Lay) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com References: <00d901c11ada$6fbc7920$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Message-ID: <001701c11b0c$a2888ce0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> Thanks for the feedback, Richard. And thanks for a wonderful article at MSNBC yesterday. I had a chance to cool down a bit on the ride home today, and had a couple of thoughts about Mr. Parloff's "tour de farce.." (1) This man is scared, and on the defensive. A calm lawyer at the top of his game would not be adopting such a bitter, sarcastic tone. And he certainly wouldn't use a racially charged term like "maumauing" to describe the behavior of his opponents. (2) Looks like it might be possible to foster some serious "internal strife" between the Feds and the AAP crowd regarding the handling of this case. If the whole thing weren't so dead serious, I would be tempted to laugh out loud at Parloff's suggestion that ElcomSoft president Katalov should offer himself for prosecution in exchange for Sklyarov's release. I mean, what is this, hostage negotiations!?!? At any rate, I believe Mr. Parloff's message boils down to this: "We will protect our revenue model by any means necessary, certainly including throwing those who threaten our model in jail. We will not be so naive as to focus on those who actually pirate our work, because there are too many of them, and anyway, many of them are also our paying customers. Rather, we will focus our wrath on you, the technologists, because you have the ability to empower many people at once, for purposes both good and ill." That is his message, but I perceive a quavering in his voice. -Doug ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard M. Smith To: Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 3:36 PM Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com > Yep what a perfectly awful article. What bothers me so much about it is > that the author presents his assumptions as fact. Some of the more wild > examples are: > > - "Most of the people coming to Sklyarov's defense fully > appreciate that some sort of anti-circumvention legislation > like the DMCA is crucial to maintaining meaningful copyright > protection in the digital world." > > - "Nor should Sklyarov's July 16 arrest have come as a surprise > to either ElcomSoft or Sklyarov, unless ElcomSoft was cruelly > keeping Sklyarov in the dark about Adobe's dissatisfaction with > ElcomSoft's business operations." > > - "The cat is then out of the bag and any attempt to bring a > copyright infringement charge against the individual who > originally uploaded it becomes laughably futile, even assuming > it were possible to identify that individual, which it usually > isn't." > > What's interesting is that the software industry has had to deal the > challenges of copyright protection in the "digital world" now for 20 > years. The industry has thrived in spite of the difficult of preventing > the wholesale copying of software. Just ask Bill Gates, the richest man > in the world. The book publishing industry is now getting ready to face > these same challenges as they tried to create a marketplace for eBooks. > Wholesale copying of books seem to be their "bogey man in closet". > > Richard > > -----Original Message----- > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net] > On Behalf Of douglay@relicorp.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 5:23 PM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com > > > > Anyone interested a quick puke should click here: > > http://www.inside.com/product/product.asp?entity=&pf_ID=E8EECFA3-CBD1- > 447E-952C-CC16283D266C > > If it wasn't clear before, this article should make it crystal- > clear: > > The publishing industry, and its allies in the music and film > industries, cannot tolerate the free exchange of digital information > across the Internet, and are willing to go to any lengths whatsoever > to see that the free exchange of digital information is squelched. > > Anyone for a march on the AAP offices during Usenix? These people > have basically declared war on programmers. > > -Doug > > > -- > Pop3Now Personal, Manage 5 Email Accounts From 1 Secure Window Sign Up > Today! Visit http://www.pop3now.com/personal > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From david at lupercalia.net Wed Aug 1 18:04:20 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov=Napster according to Senator Boxer In-Reply-To: <200108012107.OAA03402@shell3.ba.best.com>; from drumz@best.com on Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 02:07:28PM -0700 References: <20010801201725.15162.qmail@web13106.mail.yahoo.com> <200108012107.OAA03402@shell3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <20010801210420.C12705@lupercalia.net> On Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 02:07:28PM -0700, Ethan Straffin wrote: > #!/usr/local/bin/perl > # SPACE: Sheeple-Pacifying Autoresponder for Congressional Email > # (C) 2001 Albert Gore, Jr., Inventor of the Internet > > require 'sheepleRoutines.pl'; > > $myName = "Senator Barbara Boxer"; > $stateName = "California"; > $stateAbbrev = "CA"; > > while () { > $sheepleMessage .= $_; > } > > if ($sheepleMessage !~ /\b($stateName|$stateAbbrev)\b/si) { > &placateSheepleWithAutoresponse ($areYouSUREYoureMyConstituent); > } elsif ($sheepleMessage =~ /\b(Napster|DMCA|Felten|Sklyarov|DeCSS)\b/si) { > &placateSheepleWithAutoresponse ($napsterBad); > } elsif {$sheepleMessage =~ s/\bBill\s*of\s*Rights\b/si) { > &placateSheepleWithAutoresponse ($whatBillOfRightsIsThat); > # ...snipped for the sake of brevity... > } else { > &placateSheepleWithAutoresponse ($yourConcernsAreImportantToMe); > } > undef $sheepleMessage; And they say code != speech. -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri Sklyarov! http://www.freesklyarov.org Washington DC Protests http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca A "secure" eBook is an eBook that blind users can't have read aloud to them if the publisher didn't want it read aloud. -- Seth David Schoen From rabbi at quickie.net Wed Aug 1 18:20:31 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: <001701c11b0c$a2888ce0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Doug Lay wrote: > (2) Looks like it might be possible to foster some serious "internal strife" > between the Feds and the AAP crowd regarding the handling of this case. If > the whole thing weren't so dead serious, I would be tempted to laugh out > loud at Parloff's suggestion that ElcomSoft president Katalov should offer > himself for prosecution in exchange for Sklyarov's release. I mean, what is > this, hostage negotiations!?!? Yes. From nbhs2 at i-2000.com Wed Aug 1 18:45:56 2001 From: nbhs2 at i-2000.com (Michael Scottaline) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Index of some recent articles of interest Message-ID: <20010801214556.138456c3.nbhs2@i-2000.com> http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-08-01-009-20-PS -- "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Benjamin Franklin From drumz at best.com Wed Aug 1 18:47:52 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: <001701c11b0c$a2888ce0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> from Doug Lay at "Aug 1, 1 09:35:51 pm" Message-ID: <200108020147.SAA22905@shell3.ba.best.com> Another quick thought on the Parloff article, particularly this bit which others have already singled out for abuse: "Most of the people coming to Sklyarov's defense fully appreciate that some sort of anti-circumvention legislation like the DMCA is crucial to maintaining meaningful copyright protection in the digital world." Well, of course we don't -- for many reasons, but the one which I was thinking about today concerns one potentially disastrous effect of adopting unenforceable laws: it forces you to put out the match by flooding the building. What would it really take to enforce the DMCA, if one assumes (as many of us do) that all encryption-based DRM systems are inherently circumventable, and that, in the Internet era, all it generally takes to make them useless is for one person to figure out how to circumvent them? For one thing, it would require the ability to prevent anyone, anywhere in the world, from using the Internet anonymously. For as long as I can make up a fake email address and post a decryption program to Usenet from a public library in New Zealand, I'm safe from prosecution and lawsuits, but those who were hoping to hide behind the DMCA aren't safe from me. Seriously, once the lessons of DeCSS, Edward Felten, and Dmitry Sklyarov soak in across the Internet, think about what trying to enforce this ridiculous law will require! (And here I thought our unenforceable drug laws were bad, with the mandatory minimums, civil forfeiture laws, and attacks on the doctor-patient relationship to which they have led.) It's a totalitarian's wet dream! It's a perfect excuse to tell the entire Bill of Rights, "So long, nice knowing ya," while wrapping ourselves in the mantle of capitalism and artist protection. Indeed, from a few of the posts I've seen on Declan's Politech list lately, this seems to be exactly what a few of our more enterprising politicians have in mind. Ethan -- "The internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." -- John Gilmour From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 19:10:33 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sen Feinstein's Definition of Credible Message-ID: <20010802021033.76659.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com> does anyone know if senator feinstein has defined what she considers to be either the incredible or credible opposition to DMCA? im referring to the statement in the ACM letter. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From eriksson at uiuc.edu Wed Aug 1 19:44:26 2001 From: eriksson at uiuc.edu (Tim Eriksson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:04 2005 Subject: kids & PR [Re: [free-sklyarov] More Minnesota pictures] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~eriksson/antidmca/freedmitry/mn010730/dcp_1489.jpg > > I think there's a point that needs to be made here -- I really do think > that photo is VERY effective PR for all of us. It does wonders for > shifting our image from "disgruntled geeks" (which I'm quite happy with, > but the public won't be too sympathetic to) to "average American citizen > and family man whose rights are being trampled upon" (which should strike > a much better chord with the public). So, to all the parents out there -- > if possible (and plausible), consider bringing your kids to the rallies. > It can be a good chance to teach them a lesson or two about taking an > active part in the way society is run, and, I bet, is REALLY DAMN GOOD PR. > > Actually, if permission can be obtained from the photographer and the > person pictureed, this could also be a good photo to give to the media if > they ask for photos, too... I'm glad I was in the right place at the right time - and had a camera handy. As the photographer, I have no problem with any images from [1] being sent to the press or reproduced in any way. I agree that permission should also be obtained from the subject(s) of the photo. I will forward this message on to the DMCA-minnesota list in hopes of contacting the gentleman and report back with the results. BTW, the raw images from my camera are 2160x1400 pixels. I reduced them down to 60% for posting so as not to exceed my disk quota. If you would like a higher quality copy, please contact me at and I will be happy to send it to you. [1] http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~eriksson/antidmca/freedmitry/mn010730/ -- Tim From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 19:52:55 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:04 2005 Subject: kids & PR [Re: [free-sklyarov] More Minnesota pictures] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010802025255.60896.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com> thanks tim - for the shot and permission:) --- Tim Eriksson wrote: > > > http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~eriksson/antidmca/freedmitry/mn010730/dcp_1489.jpg > > > > I think there's a point that needs to be made here > -- I really do think > > that photo is VERY effective PR for all of us. It > does wonders for > > shifting our image from "disgruntled geeks" (which > I'm quite happy with, > > but the public won't be too sympathetic to) to > "average American citizen > > and family man whose rights are being trampled > upon" (which should strike > > a much better chord with the public). So, to all > the parents out there -- > > if possible (and plausible), consider bringing > your kids to the rallies. > > It can be a good chance to teach them a lesson or > two about taking an > > active part in the way society is run, and, I bet, > is REALLY DAMN GOOD PR. > > > > Actually, if permission can be obtained from the > photographer and the > > person pictureed, this could also be a good photo > to give to the media if > > they ask for photos, too... > > > I'm glad I was in the right place at the right time > - and had a camera > handy. As the photographer, I have no problem with > any images from [1] > being sent to the press or reproduced in any way. I > agree that permission > should also be obtained from the subject(s) of the > photo. > > I will forward this message on to the DMCA-minnesota > list in hopes of > contacting the gentleman and report back with the > results. > > BTW, the raw images from my camera are 2160x1400 > pixels. I reduced them > down to 60% for posting so as not to exceed my disk > quota. If you would > like a higher quality copy, please contact me at > and I > will be happy to send it to you. > > [1] > http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~eriksson/antidmca/freedmitry/mn010730/ > > > -- Tim > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 21:39:58 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Roger Parloff Inside Article Message-ID: <20010802043958.62830.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> as i re-read roger's article, which seems short on analysis and facts, ghandi's famous quote kept replying in my head: "first they ignore you, then they mock you, then they punish you, then you win" mahatma ghandi indian independence leader roger needs to be reminded that individuals are never required to assert an alternative business model, simultaneously with asserting their first amendment rights, however desirable that may be. of course we are all struggling with how to protect fundamental rights simultaneously with fundamental business principles in a digital age. however, if this is not possible it is clear the former takes precedence over the later. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From bobds at blorch.org Wed Aug 1 22:22:48 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A Modest Proposal: the opposing viewpoint In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01080122224800.13113@bitworks> On Wednesday 01 August 2001 17:08, you wrote: > Having by now talked to several people who do not agree with our arguments > against DoJ/FBI's prosecution of Dmitry, it now occurs to me that we could > improve our public image substantially by providing people new to our > cause with full access to the opposing viewpoint. Personally, on several > prior occasions when I first heard about a political cause on which I was > ambivalent, the lack of information from the "other side" on all materials > passed out by activists has irritated me to the point of losing all > respect for the activist groups and becoming adverse to their cause. > Comments/additions? OK, I'm sold. I'm collecting resources anyway, so I might as well start gathering these as well. What I'm currently collecting is: 1. Media and government contact info 2. "Talking points" for use in speaking and letter-writing 3. And now, citations for opposing views I'll pull what I have together within the next day or two and post a site where people who feel moved to write a letter can easily track down a suitable target. The "talking points" are suggestions for issues that people might want to raise--pick one, or even two or three, work up a paragraph or so about each one, and there's your letter. If you see particularly good turns of phrase or bits of insight, please point me at them so we can have a collection of them handy. -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From bobds at blorch.org Wed Aug 1 22:43:47 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Roger Parloff Inside Article In-Reply-To: <20010802043958.62830.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010802043958.62830.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01080122434101.13113@bitworks> On Wednesday 01 August 2001 21:39, you wrote: > roger needs to be reminded that individuals are never > required to assert an alternative business model, > simultaneously with asserting their first amendment > rights, however desirable that may be. > > of course we are all struggling with how to protect > fundamental rights simultaneously with fundamental > business principles in a digital age. however, if this > is not possible it is clear the former takes > precedence over the later. > I think it's important to remind people when the publishers are sniveling about how hard it is for them to make money on digital media, that nobody INVITED them to the digital party. If, in their business opinion, the inherent risks of working with digital publishing technology outweigh the commercial utility, then the solution is not to gut the Constitution--the solution is for them to turn their attention to businesses they think they CAN make money at. Not everything in the world necessarily needs to be about commercialism. If the Internet isn't well-suited to commercial exploitation (or they just can't figure out how to exploit it), then it does not follow that the Internet needs to be "fixed." -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From crism at maden.org Wed Aug 1 22:45:28 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] adobe address on your site are being blocked at adobe. (fwd) In-Reply-To: <111806.995904552@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010801224356.026e2920@mail.maden.org> At 16:09 23-07-2001, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: >Adobe has their SPAM filters blocking messages sent to management Dmitry. >Does anybody want to suggest a way to communicate with an ostrich while >its head is buried firmly in the sand? Did you try going to the Web site they mention: > > (reason: 553 5.3.0 ... 5.7.1 Your email to adobe.com >has been blocked.Please see >http://www.adobe.com/special/support/mailblock.html for assistance.) and entering your e-mail address? If that succeeds, then it's just a little annoying; if it fails, it tells us that Adobe really doesn't want to hear anything about Dmitry. OTOH, they've dropped the complaint; the only other thing they could do now is pay for his defense which, although Phil Zimmermann encouraged it as the right thing to do, is unlikely in the extreme. -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com Wed Aug 1 22:48:44 2001 From: SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com (Rob McGee) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sen Feinstein's Definition of Credible In-Reply-To: <20010802021033.76659.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com>; from sisgeek@yahoo.com on Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 07:10:33PM -0700 References: <20010802021033.76659.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010802004844.M3113@hal> On Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 07:10:33PM -0700, alfee cube wrote: > does anyone know if senator feinstein has defined what > she considers to be either the incredible or credible > opposition to DMCA? I think the standard political definition of "credible opposition" is "an organization or individual offering substantial campaign contribu- tions to legislators who will oppose something." There is overwhelming credible support for more fascism, and little credible opposition. The definition of a "substantial contribution" is subjective and varies widely. But when you have gangs like MPAA/RIAA/SPA waving millions under Congressional noses, a few thousand here and there is not credible. Rob - /dev/rob0 From kris at firstworld.net Wed Aug 1 23:32:18 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] adobe address on your site are being blocked at adobe. (fwd) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010801224356.026e2920@mail.maden.org> References: <111806.995904552@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010801225240.012f90b8@pop.firstworld.net> At 10:45 PM 8/1/2001 -0700, Christopher R. Maden wrote: >At 16:09 23-07-2001, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: >>Adobe has their SPAM filters blocking messages sent to management Dmitry. >>Does anybody want to suggest a way to communicate with an ostrich while >>its head is buried firmly in the sand? I'm assuming that the suits at Adobe are using HTML enabled email and that the filter is simply filtering using a regex looking for words like Dmitry, Sklyvarov and DMCA. If so, all you have to do to slip pass is insert a pair of self canceling html tags between each letter... like this Dmitry. A perfect job for Perl and the Perl Mail module. You might also send them a "picture" of your letter in a PDF file as I bet they are still opening PDF attachments Kris From mw at themail.com Wed Aug 1 23:34:44 2001 From: mw at themail.com (mw@themail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] tie a blue ribbon (round the old oak tree) campaign Message-ID: <200108020234494.SM00459@mail.TheMail.com> Today, an idea hit me as hard as a rock. It's blue ribbon. I remember during the war, people used to tie a yellow ribbon around trees. That always seemed to get at least *my* attention. since there is a blue ribbon campaign for free speech, let's say we start a "irl" blue ribbon campaign. I'll place one on the tree near my home ASAP. What do you say? We could place them on trees, picket signs, car antennas, bikes, pins, hair ribbons, around our fingers, etc. -marcia __________________________________________________________________ TheMail.com - Full featured premium email you can count on. Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ From mlc67 at columbia.edu Thu Aug 2 00:17:18 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] tie a blue ribbon (round the old oak tree) campaign In-Reply-To: <200108020234494.SM00459@mail.TheMail.com>; from mw@themail.com on Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 02:34:44AM -0400 References: <200108020234494.SM00459@mail.TheMail.com> Message-ID: <20010802001717.Y2744@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Frankly, I'm sick of ribbons. Google reveals that, in addition to the EFF blue ribbon, there are red ribbons for AIDS awareness, pink ribbons for breast cancer research, jade ribbons for liver disease awareness, lavender ribbons against homophobia, the aforementioned yellow ribbons to end the Gulf War, a different yellow ribbon against teen suicide, the white ribbon campaign working to end domestic violence, purple ribbons for nonviolence, a tricolor ribbon for polyamory acceptence and on and on. Indeed, there is even the amazing ribbon-o-matic at . I'm sorry to be so negative, and I really do like the idea of some physical manifestation of support for Dmitry and against the DMCA, but ribbons are simply no longer original. C'mon, we can do better! mike On Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 02:34:44AM -0400, mw@themail.com wrote: > Today, an idea hit me as hard as a rock. > > It's blue ribbon. > > I remember during the war, people used to tie a yellow ribbon around trees. > > That always seemed to get at least *my* attention. > > since there is a blue ribbon campaign for free speech, let's say we > start a "irl" blue ribbon campaign. > > I'll place one on the tree near my home ASAP. > What do you say? We could place them on trees, picket signs, car > antennas, bikes, pins, hair ribbons, around our fingers, etc. > > -marcia > __________________________________________________________________ > TheMail.com - Full featured premium email you can count on. > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // current location: berkeley, ca, us // ph: +1 (646) 382-7220 // FREE DMITRY! See http://freesklyarov.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010802/d2b1f2e2/attachment.pgp From kris at firstworld.net Thu Aug 2 00:30:52 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] tie a blue ribbon (round the old oak tree) campaign In-Reply-To: <20010802001717.Y2744@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> References: <200108020234494.SM00459@mail.TheMail.com> <200108020234494.SM00459@mail.TheMail.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010802002918.01250340@pop.firstworld.net> At 12:17 AM 8/2/2001 -0700, mike castleman wrote: >Frankly, I'm sick of ribbons. > >Google reveals that, in addition to the EFF blue ribbon, there are red >ribbons for AIDS awareness, pink ribbons for breast cancer research, >jade ribbons for liver disease awareness, lavender ribbons against >homophobia, the aforementioned yellow ribbons to end the Gulf War, a >different yellow ribbon against teen suicide, the white ribbon >campaign working to end domestic violence, purple ribbons for >nonviolence, a tricolor ribbon for polyamory acceptence and on and >on. Indeed, there is even the amazing ribbon-o-matic at >. > >I'm sorry to be so negative, and I really do like the idea of some >physical manifestation of support for Dmitry and against the DMCA, but >ribbons are simply no longer original. C'mon, we can do better! > How about the BIT from Tron. http://www.tron-movie.com/production/Bit/index.htm Kris From debug at centras.lt Thu Aug 2 00:56:33 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] How to explain what Sklyarov did In-Reply-To: <20010802004844.M3113@hal> References: <20010802021033.76659.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com> <20010802004844.M3113@hal> Message-ID: <1863292609.20010802095633@centras.lt> How explain people what Sklyarov did. He created a replication device. Let people imagine they have a replicator in their houses When you put any object in the replicator it creates a copy of that thing. Be it plate, TV set or automobile. It replicates everything. Now i have 3 questions: 1) Is is against law to create a replicator ? (this is what sklyarov did) 2) Is it against law to put anything in the replicator in order to create spare copy ? (fare use) 3) Is it against law to create as many copies as you wish ? (in other words to fake copyrights system) -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From byoungvt at yahoo.com Thu Aug 2 01:07:09 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wow! Put the pressure where it hurts the most!! Message-ID: <20010802080709.53863.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com> Robin Gross Bob Marti This is Genius!!!! http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/reuters_wire/1381352l.htm From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Thu Aug 2 01:20:46 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] dmitry's lawyer In-Reply-To: <20010802080709.53863.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, brad young wrote: > http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/reuters_wire/1381352l.htm Alright, so now the press has his lawyer's name. I think it's just about time to consider this fully public information. In case you missed it glaring at you from the middle of the article, Dmitry's lawyer's name is Joe Burton, announcement or no announcement... A quick google query shows that this name also matches the previous notice on free-sklyarov that this lawyer was involved with Phil Zimmermann's case earlier, and of course matches the "Joe B____" that was psted here earlier. -- -alexf From crism at maden.org Thu Aug 2 01:23:25 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wow! Put the pressure where it hurts the most!! In-Reply-To: <20010802080709.53863.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010802012231.02704cb0@mail.maden.org> At 01:07 2-08-2001, brad young wrote: >http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/reuters_wire/1381352l.htm Well, I guess he's talking to the press now: >Sklyarov's defense attorney Joe Burton said he is in the process of >establishing a formal legal defense fund, but said it was up to Adobe as >to whether or not the company would contribute. -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From debug at centras.lt Thu Aug 2 02:22:26 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Roger Parloff Inside Article In-Reply-To: <01080122434101.13113@bitworks> References: <20010802043958.62830.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> <01080122434101.13113@bitworks> Message-ID: <98446256.20010802112226@centras.lt> BS> I think it's important to remind people when the publishers are sniveling BS> about how hard it is for them to make money on digital media, that nobody BS> INVITED them to the digital party. If, in their business opinion, the BS> inherent risks of working with digital publishing technology outweigh the BS> commercial utility, then the solution is not to gut the Constitution--the BS> solution is for them to turn their attention to businesses they think they BS> CAN make money at. I do agree with you completely. However they will answer you that authors of IP invited them. And it's true. But in this case i can answer that IP authors are in fact interested to invite consumers to buy IP and they are not interested directly in digital media industry - authors would agree to allow people burn CDs themselves if people pay money for IP. One writer complained to me that it costs alot for him to maintain internet side (The readers use my bandwidth and it costs money for me). My answer was to allow people to put his book on their sites. The only problem is that noone can garantee money will be paid -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From tom at lemuria.org Wed Aug 1 17:26:20 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] the Russian angle (was "NC Call ...") In-Reply-To: <20010731174010.G3113@hal>; from SerrQzvgev@zxmail.com on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 05:40:10PM -0500 References: <20010731140337.D3113@hal> <20010731160546.E3113@hal> <20010731181011.5f836044.nbhs2@i-2000.com> <20010731174010.G3113@hal> Message-ID: <20010802022619.D29962@lemuria.org> On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 05:40:10PM -0500, Rob McGee wrote: > > This is something I've found VERY surprising. In all I've read of this > > situation (and admittedly, my reading has NOT been exhaustive), I've yet > > to run across any commentary on the Russian governments efforts to have > > Dmitry released. When US resident, Chinese citizens, were dteained in > > China, the news was full of US government's indignation and efforts to get > > them released through diplomatic channels (obviously successful). What > > has, if anything, the Putin government done thus far (that's known)? > > Perhaps this is a consequence of the breakdown of the hairly/bald mode of > > transition in the Russian government ;-) > > I think it can be explained 100% by the enormous political and economic > power of the USA as opposed to both Russia and China. specifically russia. from what I know (I may be wrong, I'm not a russian), russia is literally afraid of the economic power of the USA. the breakdown of the russian financial system was considerably aided by certain activities and more importantly non-activities of that corporate republic of yours. it definitely taught the russians that they are now at the mercy of their former enemy. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From tom at lemuria.org Wed Aug 1 17:42:00 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: [NotDmcaLa] Long term thoughts [was: Sen. Hatch "commends" DOJ for Sklyarov arrest, IP prosecutions] In-Reply-To: ; from free-sklyarov@happycool.com on Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 12:05:15AM -0700 References: <01073121245902.01042@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <20010802024200.E29962@lemuria.org> On Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 12:05:15AM -0700, Victor Piterbarg wrote: > artists are manufactured by the record labels. These are the "artists" that > make the most money FOR the corporations. And I think that if we approached > Britney Spears with eloquent anti-DMCA arguments, the best we could hope for > is a shiny smile or a giggle. go to the EX "boy band of the year" guys. some of them have started solo careers, forget those. search out the ones who were dropped by the wayside like discarded paper towels. AFAIK they earned next to nothing for all the millions they brought the company. they got free 1st class hotels and a wild trip, and some spare change. they just might be seing their former bosses with very different eyes today. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From nbhs2 at i-2000.com Thu Aug 2 03:12:55 2001 From: nbhs2 at i-2000.com (Michael Scottaline) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] the Russian angle (was "NC Call ...") In-Reply-To: <20010802022619.D29962@lemuria.org> References: <20010731140337.D3113@hal> <20010731160546.E3113@hal> <20010731181011.5f836044.nbhs2@i-2000.com> <20010731174010.G3113@hal> <20010802022619.D29962@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20010802061255.4d50f542.nbhs2@i-2000.com> On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 02:26:20 +0200 Tom insightfully noted: > > I think it can be explained 100% by the enormous political and > economic > > power of the USA as opposed to both Russia and China. > > specifically russia. from what I know (I may be wrong, I'm not a > russian), russia is literally afraid of the economic power of the USA. > the breakdown of the russian financial system was considerably aided by > certain activities and more importantly non-activities of that > corporate republic of yours. it definitely taught the russians that > they are now at the mercy of their former enemy. ====================== Hmmmm. What were the Chinese thinking when they held and American plane and crew for so long? The Russians have NOT been afraid to be openly critical in other contexts (missile defense). I'm not so certain this is really the answer. The Russians don't have to launch an attack, but a public open criticism of the arrest would seem appropriate. I doubt such a gesture would engender, ..."a full retaliatory response..." Mike -- "Always remember, I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me." --Winston Churchill From debug at centras.lt Thu Aug 2 03:13:03 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] the Russian angle (was "NC Call ...") In-Reply-To: <20010802022619.D29962@lemuria.org> References: <20010731140337.D3113@hal> <20010731160546.E3113@hal> <20010731181011.5f836044.nbhs2@i-2000.com> <20010731174010.G3113@hal> <20010802022619.D29962@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <5011483967.20010802121303@centras.lt> T> specifically russia. from what I know (I may be wrong, I'm not a T> russian), russia is literally afraid of the economic power of the USA. T> the breakdown of the russian financial system was considerably aided by T> certain activities and more importantly non-activities of that T> corporate republic of yours. it definitely taught the russians that T> they are now at the mercy of their former enemy. In fact there are plenty of rumours in russia that US economy may collapse at any moment. So it is not US economy that threatens russia, but agressiveness of US defending its economical interests. Enforcing copyrights is just one part of it. Attempts to commercialize internet is one more part of it. Weaponization of space is one more threatening part of it. I have nothing against globalization in general but the way it's being done threatens me - corporations do not leave nations the right to decide. -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From tom at lemuria.org Thu Aug 2 03:24:44 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov=Napster according to Senator Boxer In-Reply-To: <200108012152.OAA20435@shell3.ba.best.com>; from drumz@best.com on Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 02:52:42PM -0700 References: <200108012152.OAA20435@shell3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <20010802122444.A4624@lemuria.org> On Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 02:52:42PM -0700, Ethan Straffin wrote: > BTW, have I mentioned telegrams? I've met activists who swear by them. I'm tempted to say that anything that is rare, unusual and shows effort by the sender will be taken seriously. telegrams are most likely effective because almost nobody uses them anymore AND because they are still culturally linked to "urgent and important message". From robertl1 at home.com Thu Aug 2 03:22:25 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wow! Put the pressure where it hurts the most!! In-Reply-To: <20010802080709.53863.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010802015748.02155610@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> On another level. Have you ever been involved with a political prisoner before? Do you realize how many Dmitrys there are in this world? This problem was not invented last week. http://www.tibet.com/Humanrights/hr301196_2.html http://coup2k.com/ianthomas.html http://www.inform.umd.edu/News/Diamondback/00-05-11/news5.html http://www.freetaye.com/ http://www.kstrom.net/isk/stories/peltier.html http://www.meskerem.net/wold.htm http://www.vinsight.org/1998news/0709.htm http://www.humanist.net/publications/humanist/articles/klein.html http://larkspirit.com/ipow/ http://www.irsm.org/irspows/ http://www.biscet.org/ http://www.yale.edu/ydn/paper/9.28/9.28.95storyno.BB.html http://www.nsbm.org/pub/hendrik/ http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/index.cfm?docid=523 http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~flashjdm/ http://www.llb.labournet.org.uk/1998/april/rev2.html http://www.humanrights.de/u/usa/standeer.html http://jinx.sistm.unsw.edu.au/~greenlft/1998/327/327p24b.htm http://www.humanrights.de/u/usa/luis/lr1.html http://www.eddiehatcher.org/ http://www.newaus.com.au/news231castro.html http://www.rumormillnews.com/prisoner.htm http://www.tamilnet.com/reports/2001/01/0402.html http://www.webcom.com/~peace/PEACTREE/stuff/stuff/html/0233.html http://word.cs.earlham.edu/issues/XII/041798/news902602a.html http://www.ibb.gov/pubaff/burmese003.html So one understands that the USA is involved http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/nuh.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/matos.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/alberto.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/torres.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/torres.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/jalil.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/bashir.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/dunne.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/carlos.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/valentin.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/chuck.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/gilbert.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/move.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/delbert.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/mutulu.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/pagan.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/edward.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/edwin.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/elizam.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/pplist.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/bey.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/bell.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/jaan.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/janet.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/janine.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/juan.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/giddings.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/whitehorn.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/peltier.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/evans.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/luis.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/buck.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/mark.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/conway.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/jamal.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/lutalo.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/oscar.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/ray.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/jimenez.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/williams.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/seth.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/maroon.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/kambui.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/odinga.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/odinga.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/baraldini.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/tom.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/yu.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/wolverine.html http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/oj.html For a larger perspective http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9712/18/korea.elex/ http://burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/pplist.html Please understand that I ask this in good faith. I do sympathize with Dmitry's case but I do not consider him more important than thousands of other political prisoners. Do you? Why? Bob La Quey From tom at lemuria.org Thu Aug 2 03:27:38 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Anyone suppose that DMCA also outlaws... In-Reply-To: <01080116325403.28314@stumpy>; from krw5@qwest.net on Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 04:32:54PM -0700 References: <01080116325403.28314@stumpy> Message-ID: <20010802122738.B4624@lemuria.org> On Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 04:32:54PM -0700, Roger Kramer wrote: > ...use of xxd, hexdump, or khexedit? When the encryption of the binary > you're looking at is as weak as ROT-13, just viewing the raw binary nearly > constitutes "circumvention" doesn't it? here's one evil thought: I know people who can READ object code. it's awkward, it's slow, but they can do it. they are exceptions, no question asked. but they do exist. what about those guys? are they a circumvention device? From jim at media.mit.edu Thu Aug 2 05:16:55 2001 From: jim at media.mit.edu (Jim Youll) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: A Modest Proposal: the opposing viewpoint Message-ID: <200108021216.IAA08971@dns2.newmediagroup.com> Alex, your points are well taken. However, it is one thing to wish something to be and another to muster the resources to pull it off. 1. I need ONE GOOD WRITER to keep up a "CURRENT SUMMARY" document of approximately 1000 words, plus a timeline and background section. Think of the "Encyclopaedia Dmitry" and you'll understand what needs to be created. 2. This document can be the first step toward providing an "opposing viewpoint" because it would necessarily cover the law and the other side of the issue. The cluster of people who want to help (thank you everyone) is heavily technical. But nothing about this is not a technical problem, it's a communication problem. We worked out most of the tech crap already (with some lingering stuff that the volunteers who've already contacted me can handle) Speaking slightly in frustration here, it's evident that "writing is boring" and "writing is hard work" are still mantras for a lot of people. But that's no reason not to learn how to talk to people. And yes, writing is hard work. Research can be boring. Proofreading is tedious. But if you do it right, you get a shot at changing the world. 3. WRITERS AND EDITORS STILL NEEDED, experience preferred (because I don't have time myself to edit) SITE PRODUCER NEEDED, preferably someone with experience putting together complex sites, so that I can assume more of an editorial and content oversight role, and work less on production even though it's "fun". sort of. Contact publisher@freesklyarov.org with vitals At 5:08 PM -0700 8/1/01, Alex Fabrikant wrote: >Having by now talked to several people who do not agree with our arguments >against DoJ/FBI's prosecution of Dmitry, it now occurs to me that we could >improve our public image substantially by providing people new to our >cause with full access to the opposing viewpoint. Personally, on several >prior occasions when I first heard about a political cause on which I was >ambivalent, the lack of information from the "other side" on all materials >passed out by activists has irritated me to the point of losing all >respect for the activist groups and becoming adverse to their cause. I >think our case is strong enough that we can display opposing viewpoints >and STILL have high hopes for turning most people our way. Providing full >access and visibility to the opposing viewpoint, I assert, will do wonders >for our credibility in the eyes of the questioning. Furthermore, for any >given "opposing viewpoint" item, we can post our counterarguments as >well, for an even stronger effect. > >Hence my proposal, mainly to freesklyarov.org folks, but CC'ed to the >list to get people's opinions: > >1. Add a prominent "Opposing Viewpoints" section, and include links to the > most visible articles which defend Dmitry's arrest. In particular, make > sure you link to the following: > > Original complaint: > http://www.usaondca.com/press/assets/applets/2001_07_17_sklyarov.pdf > > AAP's press release: > http://www.publishers.org/home/press/index.htm > > Inside.com article: > http://www.inside.com/product/product.asp?entity=&pf_ID=E8EECFA3-CBD1-447E-952C-CC16283D266C > > (please remind me if there are some other PROMINENT writeups that I > missed; we probably shouldn't waste energy on random messageboard > posts and such; also, it's probably best to link to only the most > "blatantly opposite" writeups rather than semi-neutral ones [like the > "Don't Judge an eBook Case By Its Coverage" article on yahoo]) > >2. If anyone wants to write up a SINGLE well-worded complete rebuttal to > the arguments of any particular item linked in this new section, that > would be particularly helpful (this someone being well-known would also > be a plus, of course, but is not a necessity). > >Comments/additions? > >-- >-alexf -- Free Dmitry Sklyarov ... http://freesklyarov.org/ -- http://www.media.mit.edu/~jim research assistant . software agents group . e-markets sig mit media lab . cambridge, ma Free Dmitry Sklyarov ... http://freesklyarov.org/ From dengel at sourceharvest.com Thu Aug 2 05:19:36 2001 From: dengel at sourceharvest.com (Dan Engel) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com Message-ID: <200108021219.f72CJa211527@server1000.net> > Anyone interested a quick puke should click here: > http://www.inside.com/product/product.asp?entity=&pf_ID=E8EECFA3-CBD1- > 447E-952C-CC16283D266C Yes, the article was wretched Once in a while you come across something that's wrong on so many levels --that so completely misses the point (the starting point, even)--that the right response is to just ignore it. Kind of the way you might indulge a young child to persist in his belief that there are little people inside a TV. This commentary represents one of those times. But, what do you do when other so-called adults are actually persuaded to the child's beliefs? -Dan -------------- next part -------------- From dengel at sourceharvest.com Thu Aug 2 05:21:41 2001 From: dengel at sourceharvest.com (Dan Engel) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com Message-ID: <200108021221.f72CLf413406@server1000.net> > Anyone interested a quick puke should click here: > http://www.inside.com/product/product.asp?entity=&pf_ID=E8EECFA3-CBD1- > 447E-952C-CC16283D266C Yes, the article was certainly wretched. Once in a while you come across something that's wrong on so many levels--that so completely misses the point (the starting point, even)--that the right response is to just ignore it. Kind of the way you might indulge a young child persist in his belief that there are little people inside a TV. This commentary represents one of those times. But, what do you do when other so-called adults are actually persuaded to the child's beliefs? -------------- next part -------------- From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Thu Aug 2 05:20:01 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: A Modest Proposal: the opposing viewpoint In-Reply-To: <200108021156.HAA08854@dns2.newmediagroup.com> Message-ID: Jim, I understand very well how difficult it is to maintain a site as comprehensive as yours. You guys have been doing an outstanding job, and are continuing to maintain the single best resource for all of the thousands of people involved in this movement. While I'm unfortunately unable to volunteer for a writing position, I guess I will take my own advice and put up a rudimentary page'o'links (if nothing else) on my own site that I will eventually develop into a minimal "opposing viewpoint" page; this way, all I would ask for is a link from your site. I will send you a URL as soon as I put up the page. To everyone else on the list, my call for rebuttals still stands; send them my way. On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, Jim Youll wrote: > Alex, your points are well taken. However, it is one thing to wish > something to be and another to muster the resources to pull it off. > > 1. I need ONE GOOD WRITER to keep up a "CURRENT SUMMARY" document of approximately 1000 words, plus a timeline and background section. Think of the "Encyclopaedia Dmitry" and you'll understand what needs to be created. > > 2. This document can be the first step toward providing an "opposing viewpoint" because it would necessarily cover the law and the other side of the issue. > > The cluster of people who want to help (thank you everyone) is heavily technical. But nothing about this is not a technical problem, it's a communication problem. We worked out most of the tech crap already (with some lingering stuff that the volunteers who've already contacted me can handle) Speaking slightly in frustration here, it's evident that "writing is boring" and "writing is hard work" are still mantras for a lot of people. > > But that's no reason not to learn how to talk to people. And yes, writing is hard work. Research can be boring. Proofreading is tedious. But if you do it right, you get a shot at changing the world. > > 3. > WRITERS AND EDITORS STILL NEEDED, experience preferred (because I don't have time myself to edit) > > SITE PRODUCER NEEDED, preferably someone with experience putting together complex sites, so that I can assume more of an editorial and content oversight role, and work less on production even though it's "fun". sort of. > > Contact publisher@freesklyarov.org with vitals > > > > > At 5:08 PM -0700 8/1/01, Alex Fabrikant wrote: > >Having by now talked to several people who do not agree with our arguments > >against DoJ/FBI's prosecution of Dmitry, it now occurs to me that we could > >improve our public image substantially by providing people new to our > >cause with full access to the opposing viewpoint. Personally, on several > >prior occasions when I first heard about a political cause on which I was > >ambivalent, the lack of information from the "other side" on all materials > >passed out by activists has irritated me to the point of losing all > >respect for the activist groups and becoming adverse to their cause. I > >think our case is strong enough that we can display opposing viewpoints > >and STILL have high hopes for turning most people our way. Providing full > >access and visibility to the opposing viewpoint, I assert, will do wonders > >for our credibility in the eyes of the questioning. Furthermore, for any > >given "opposing viewpoint" item, we can post our counterarguments as > >well, for an even stronger effect. > > > >Hence my proposal, mainly to freesklyarov.org folks, but CC'ed to the > >list to get people's opinions: > > > >1. Add a prominent "Opposing Viewpoints" section, and include links to the > > most visible articles which defend Dmitry's arrest. In particular, make > > sure you link to the following: > > > > Original complaint: > > http://www.usaondca.com/press/assets/applets/2001_07_17_sklyarov.pdf > > > > AAP's press release: > > http://www.publishers.org/home/press/index.htm > > > > Inside.com article: > > http://www.inside.com/product/product.asp?entity=&pf_ID=E8EECFA3-CBD1-447E-952C-CC16283D266C > > > > (please remind me if there are some other PROMINENT writeups that I > > missed; we probably shouldn't waste energy on random messageboard > > posts and such; also, it's probably best to link to only the most > > "blatantly opposite" writeups rather than semi-neutral ones [like the > > "Don't Judge an eBook Case By Its Coverage" article on yahoo]) > > > >2. If anyone wants to write up a SINGLE well-worded complete rebuttal to > > the arguments of any particular item linked in this new section, that > > would be particularly helpful (this someone being well-known would also > > be a plus, of course, but is not a necessity). > > > >Comments/additions? > > > >-- > >-alexf > > -- -alexf From dengel at sourceharvest.com Thu Aug 2 05:22:16 2001 From: dengel at sourceharvest.com (Dan Engel) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com Message-ID: <200108021222.f72CMGT13491@server1000.net> > Anyone interested a quick puke should click here: > http://www.inside.com/product/product.asp?entity=&pf_ID=E8EECFA3-CBD1- > 447E-952C-CC16283D266C Yes, the article was certainly wretched. Once in a while you come across something that's wrong on so many levels--that so completely misses the point (the starting point, even)--that the right response is to just ignore it. Kind of the way you might indulge a young child persist in his belief that there are little people inside a TV. This commentary represents one of those times. But, what do you do when other so-called adults are actually persuaded to the child's beliefs? -------------- next part -------------- From dengel at sourceharvest.com Thu Aug 2 05:23:01 2001 From: dengel at sourceharvest.com (Dan Engel) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com Message-ID: <200108021223.f72CN1B13529@server1000.net> > Anyone interested a quick puke should click here: > http://www.inside.com/product/product.asp?entity=&pf_ID=E8EECFA3-CBD1- > 447E-952C-CC16283D266C Yes, the article was certainly wretched. Once in a while you come across something that's wrong on so many levels--that so completely misses the point (the starting point, even)--that the right response is to just ignore it. Kind of the way you might indulge a young child to persist in his belief that there are little people inside a TV. This commentary represents one of those times. But, what do you do when other so-called adults are actually persuaded to the child's beliefs? -Dan -------------- next part -------------- From dengel at sourceharvest.com Thu Aug 2 05:22:40 2001 From: dengel at sourceharvest.com (Dan Engel) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com Message-ID: <200108021222.f72CMeI13515@server1000.net> > Anyone interested a quick puke should click here: > http://www.inside.com/product/product.asp?entity=&pf_ID=E8EECFA3-CBD1- > 447E-952C-CC16283D266C Yes, the article was certainly wretched. Once in a while you come across something that's wrong on so many levels--that so completely misses the point (the starting point, even)--that the right response is to just ignore it. Kind of the way you might indulge a young child to persist in his belief that there are little people inside a TV. This commentary represents one of those times. But, what do you do when other so-called adults are actually persuaded to the child's beliefs? -Dan -------------- next part -------------- From mscottaline at yahoo.com Thu Aug 2 04:51:35 2001 From: mscottaline at yahoo.com (Michael Scottaline) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: <200108021222.f72CMGT13491@server1000.net> References: <200108021222.f72CMGT13491@server1000.net> Message-ID: <20010802075135.34755af1.mscottaline@yahoo.com> On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:22:16 -0400 "Dan Engel" was inspired to comment: > > Anyone interested a quick puke should click here: > > > http://www.inside.com/product/product.asp?entity=&pf_ID=E8EECFA3-CBD1- > > 447E-952C-CC16283D266C > > Yes, the article was certainly wretched. ================================ Time to round up those bastards at Chicago Cutlery! Sure their hardware is used for "some" legitimate purposes, but in the hands of criminals........ -- "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." - Frank Zappa _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From adunston at jetstream.com Thu Aug 2 06:23:20 2001 From: adunston at jetstream.com (Adrian Dunston) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wow! Put the pressure where it hurts the most !! Message-ID: >From: Bob La Quey [mailto:robertl1@home.com] >On another level. Have you ever been involved with a political prisoner before? Well there was that one fling back in the federal pen, but I wouldn't say we were "involved". >Please understand that I ask this in good faith. I do sympathize with Dmitry's case >but I do not consider him more important than thousands of other political prisoners. >Do you? No. We understand that people are losing their property, losing their freedom, losing their limbs, losing their lives, and losing their souls. I know that there is an incredible amount of hurting in this world and a lot we should personally be doing to help. The big difference here is that since this law is something that affects my rights specifically, it's something that I have taken the time to learn a great deal about. Since I know a great deal about this, I feel in a position to be one of the active participants in changing this situation. This is why I'm organizing a protest in my home town. Not because Dmitry is more important than one of the homeless people we'll walk by, or because my freedom of speech is more important than my neighbors' freedom from spousal abuse, but because in this instance I feel like I can make a noticable difference. Maybe I'm naive. Maybe I don't even know how to spell naive. I think our government (more than half of the time) works. I think this is how it works. I'm working with it. Hopefully, I will be able to use my experiences in this issue to begin work in other issues, things I see as more important. Your question is valid. Though this issue is very important to us, there are more important problems to solve. Still, one must choose a piece of ground where they turn and fight. This is familiar ground to me. This is my domain. This is my fight. Who knows where we'll go from here? Maybe the people I fight with today on this issue, I'll fight against tomorrow on another. But as long as we are actively learning and participating, we can outvoice the greedy, ignorant, and apathetic. God willing, we'll even actually help someone down the line. -Adrian P. Dunston From mw at themail.com Thu Aug 2 06:42:20 2001 From: mw at themail.com (mw@themail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] tie a blue ribbon (round the old oak tree) campaign Message-ID: <200108020941445.SM00361@mail.TheMail.com> if you think of something better, soon, fine- Great! but until then, I'm tying a blue ribbon around my tree, at least until they Free Dmitry. ****** Original Message ****** From: Kris Sent: Thu 08/02/2001 03:34 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] tie a blue ribbon (round the old oak tree) campaign At 12:17 AM 8/2/2001 -0700, mike castleman wrote: > > >Frankly, I'm sick of ribbons. > > > > > >Google reveals that, in addition to the EFF blue ribbon, there are red > > >ribbons for AIDS awareness, pink ribbons for breast cancer research, > > >jade ribbons for liver disease awareness, lavender ribbons against > > >homophobia, the aforementioned yellow ribbons to end the Gulf War, a > > >different yellow ribbon against teen suicide, the white ribbon > > >campaign working to end domestic violence, purple ribbons for > > >nonviolence, a tricolor ribbon for polyamory acceptence and on and > > >on. Indeed, there is even the amazing ribbon-o-matic at > > ><target="_new">http://www.webgurus.com/matic/ribbon-o-matic.html>. > > > > > >I'm sorry to be so negative, and I really do like the idea of some > > >physical manifestation of support for Dmitry and against the DMCA, but > > >ribbons are simply no longer original. C'mon, we can do better! > > > > > > >How about the BIT from Tron. > > > >target="_new">http://www.tron-movie.com/production/Bit/index.htm > > > >Kris > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >target="_new">http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________________________ TheMail.com - Full featured premium email you can count on. Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ From rms at privacyfoundation.org Thu Aug 2 03:22:40 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Anyone suppose that DMCA also outlaws... In-Reply-To: <01080116325403.28314@stumpy> Message-ID: <000a01c11b3d$0fd11440$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Depends on how good of lawyer the side has! A good lawyer could probably sell a hex dump utility to a judge as being some evil circumvention tool. Richard -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net] On Behalf Of Roger Kramer Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 7:33 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Anyone suppose that DMCA also outlaws... ...use of xxd, hexdump, or khexedit? When the encryption of the binary you're looking at is as weak as ROT-13, just viewing the raw binary nearly constitutes "circumvention" doesn't it? -rk ------------------------------------------- !!! Free Dmitry !!! http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.anti-dmca.org _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From admin at seattle-chat.com Thu Aug 2 07:03:12 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: <20010802075135.34755af1.mscottaline@yahoo.com> Message-ID: BTW if you want to e-mail the writer of this article it's roger.parloff@inside.com, he's written many articles in favor of the DMCA. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Michael Scottaline Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 4:52 AM To: dengel@sourceharvest.com Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:22:16 -0400 "Dan Engel" was inspired to comment: > > Anyone interested a quick puke should click here: > > > http://www.inside.com/product/product.asp?entity=&pf_ID=E8EECFA3-CBD1- > > 447E-952C-CC16283D266C > > Yes, the article was certainly wretched. ================================ Time to round up those bastards at Chicago Cutlery! Sure their hardware is used for "some" legitimate purposes, but in the hands of criminals........ -- "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." - Frank Zappa _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From warthawg at ecpi.com Thu Aug 2 07:16:38 2001 From: warthawg at ecpi.com (Joe Barr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Bruce Perens on Dmitry Message-ID: <20010802091638.5ac5bf2b.warthawg@ecpi.com> http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2800985,00.html -- #=============================================# # The text of this message may be read aloud. # #=============================================# From johnny_aio2 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 2 07:14:44 2001 From: johnny_aio2 at yahoo.com (Johnny Crow) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ASCII Art Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010802093403.00a58dd0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> 8888888b. 888b d888 .d8888b. d8888 888 "Y88b 8888b d8888 d88P Y88b d88888 888 888 88888b.d88888 888 888 d88P888 888 888 888Y88888P888 888 d88P 888 888 888 888 Y888P 888 888 d88P 888 888 888 888 Y8P 888 888 888 d88P 888 888 .d88P 888 " 888 Y88b d88P d8888888888 8888888P" IS 888 888 BY "Y8888P" d88P 888 M I O M I S R E T T P R R R R I Y E A C A T A T E E D -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010802/b7a01458/attachment.html From warthawg at ecpi.com Thu Aug 2 07:20:31 2001 From: warthawg at ecpi.com (Joe Barr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Anyone suppose that DMCA also outlaws... In-Reply-To: <01080116325403.28314@stumpy> References: <01080116325403.28314@stumpy> Message-ID: <20010802092031.282139e0.warthawg@ecpi.com> Maybe all the programmers, students, and hobbyists who have written versions of rot, whether in perl, C, or javascript, should also be jailed, held without bond, and generally disappeared too. Hey, that's it! Chandra Levy may have been discovered reading an ebook aloud! On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:32:54 -0700 Roger Kramer wrote: > ...use of xxd, hexdump, or khexedit? When the encryption of the binary > you're looking at is as weak as ROT-13, just viewing the raw binary nearly > constitutes "circumvention" doesn't it? > > > -rk > ------------------------------------------- > !!! Free Dmitry !!! > http://www.freesklyarov.org > http://www.anti-dmca.org > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- #=============================================# # The text of this message may be read aloud. # #=============================================# From rms at privacyfoundation.org Thu Aug 2 07:11:08 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <010401c11b5c$fae5f440$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Hi, Thanks for posting Roger Parloff's email address. It sounds like both Roger and AAP have been copyright cops for a bit too long. The come across sounding like thugs. Richard -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net] On Behalf Of Charles Eakins Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:03 AM To: nbhs2@i-2000.com; dengel@sourceharvest.com Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com BTW if you want to e-mail the writer of this article it's roger.parloff@inside.com, he's written many articles in favor of the DMCA. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Michael Scottaline Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 4:52 AM To: dengel@sourceharvest.com Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:22:16 -0400 "Dan Engel" was inspired to comment: > > Anyone interested a quick puke should click here: > > > http://www.inside.com/product/product.asp?entity=&pf_ID=E8EECFA3-CBD > > 1- > > 447E-952C-CC16283D266C > > Yes, the article was certainly wretched. ================================ Time to round up those bastards at Chicago Cutlery! Sure their hardware is used for "some" legitimate purposes, but in the hands of criminals........ -- "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." - Frank Zappa _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Aug 2 07:42:22 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wow! Put the pressure where it hurts the most!! In-Reply-To: <20010802080709.53863.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010802080709.53863.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <87y9p2mskx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "by" == brad young writes: by> This is Genius!!!! It's a good story because it keeps Dmitry in the news. I don't think there's anything else much to it. Wasting any more time with Adobe is ridiculous at this point. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From mscottaline at yahoo.com Thu Aug 2 06:55:00 2001 From: mscottaline at yahoo.com (Michael Scottaline) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Bruce Perens on Dmitry In-Reply-To: <20010802091638.5ac5bf2b.warthawg@ecpi.com> References: <20010802091638.5ac5bf2b.warthawg@ecpi.com> Message-ID: <20010802095500.61166921.mscottaline@yahoo.com> On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:16:38 -0500 Joe Barr was inspired to comment: > > > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2800985,00.html > > > -- > #=============================================# > # The text of this message may be read aloud. # > #=============================================# ============================================ Some good links within the article, including one to Dmitry's Powerpoint presentation. Mike -- "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." - Frank Zappa _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Aug 2 08:01:56 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Annalee Newitz R0XOrs Message-ID: <87lml2mrob.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Hey, so, check out the column in Techsploitation this week: http://www.sfbg.com/SFLife/tech/70.html ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From callahanpb at yahoo.com Thu Aug 2 08:23:47 2001 From: callahanpb at yahoo.com (Paul Callahan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Bruce Perens on Dmitry In-Reply-To: <20010802091638.5ac5bf2b.warthawg@ecpi.com> Message-ID: <20010802152347.553.qmail@web13106.mail.yahoo.com> The zdnet article has a link to David Touretzky's web page, where you can find Dmitry's slides. Here is the link in gif/html format: format:http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/ds-defcon/sld001.htm I had mentioned that I was curious to see what exactly Sklyarov had done to decrypt Adobe eBooks, and I can see that it was indeed a very weak system. The part I found confusing in the zdnet article was the part about XORing the text with the word "encrypted". It's more clear from the slide. Normally, you'd XOR each character in succession with the next letter of the keyword (which is already easily breakable). I.e. This is some coded text. +encryptedencryptedencryp ------------------------ Instead each letter is XOR'd with all the characters in "encrypted". This is identical to forming one byte as the XOR of these characters and applying it to every character. So the code is arguably weaker than a newspaper cryptogram, which is also a simple substitution cipher but without such an obvious pattern. It sounds to me like Adobe ought to be suing its outsourcers if it really must take legal action against someone. --Paul --- Joe Barr wrote: > > > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2800985,00.html > > > -- > #=============================================# > # The text of this message may be read aloud. # > #=============================================# > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From kris at firstworld.net Thu Aug 2 08:37:28 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wow! Put the pressure where it hurts the most!! In-Reply-To: <87y9p2mskx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> References: <20010802080709.53863.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com> <20010802080709.53863.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010802082549.00ae87c8@pop.firstworld.net> At 07:42 AM 8/2/2001 -0700, Klepht wrote: >>>>>> "by" == brad young writes: > > by> This is Genius!!!! > >It's a good story because it keeps Dmitry in the news. > >I don't think there's anything else much to it. Wasting any more time >with Adobe is ridiculous at this point. I disagree. Keeping Adobe uncomfortable does three things. One: it makes it less likely that they will assist the Feds in prosecuting this case in the future. Two: makes it clear to other companies that there is a good deal of pain associated with using the DMCA - hopefully lessening the chances that someone else will end up in jail because of this ridiculous law. Three: increases the chances that Adobe will try and buy their way out of this mess by contributing to Dmitry's legal fund. Obviously, any efforts applied to keep the pressure on Adobe should not distract from the efforts to Free Dmitry. Kris From kris at firstworld.net Thu Aug 2 08:50:22 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From SFGate Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010802084813.011ae130@pop.firstworld.net> This is a very nice piece. I hope it makes it into the printed version of the paper. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2001/08/02/skly arov.DTL Kris From jono at microshaft.org Thu Aug 2 09:31:23 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] News: Dimitry Sklyarov: Enemy or friend? Message-ID: <20010802093123.C67746@networkcommand.com> ZDNet http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20010802/tc/dimitry_sklyarov_enemy_or_friend__1.html E-book publishers might think of jailed Russian cryptanalyst Dimitry Sklyarov as their worst enemy... until they see his slide show, says open source activist Bruce Perens. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20010802/tc/dimitry_sklyarov_enemy_or_friend__1.html From pmasloch at earthlink.net Thu Aug 2 10:06:38 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Bruce Perens on Dmitry In-Reply-To: <20010802091638.5ac5bf2b.warthawg@ecpi.com> Message-ID: There is also another story on ZDNet today: http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5095102,00.html Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2800985,00.html -- #=============================================# # The text of this message may be read aloud. # #=============================================# _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Thu Aug 2 10:43:47 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: <001701c11b0c$a2888ce0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Doug Lay wrote: > (1) This man is scared, and on the defensive. I don't know about that. Why would Roger Parloff have any reason to be scared of eBook/DVD/MP3 piracy? I think a lot of Parloff's viewpoint just comes from being an attorney with a pragmatic, perhaps cynical view of how things actually play out in court. Take all his articles on Napster, for instance: to first order, they just seem like standard anti- napster posturing, but if you look more closely you will see that he is an attorney criticizing Napster's legal defense strategy. I was alarmed by his claim that most people appreciate DMCA-like protections; companies that actually have to pay to implement DRM in their hardware and software are painfully aware that consumers don't appreciate it. I also noted that the article trots out the old argument that, once you use that program, you have a "free and clear" copy that can then be pirated---and it only takes one copy. Well hey, the same thing happens every time you successfully remove that @#$% shrinkwrap from a CD. The mere fact that the music is suddenly unprotected, vulnerable to piracy, is waved about as if it is a shocking situation as bad as piracy itself. > -Doug =S From ckirby at sfchronicle.com Thu Aug 2 10:50:40 2001 From: ckirby at sfchronicle.com (Carrie Kirby) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From SFGate Message-ID: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D45C2@sfc-exmail1> pieces written by sfgate staff do not migrate to the printed Chronicle. However, there will be a piece on the whole free Dmitry thing in the printed paper. Carrie Kirby tech reporter San Francisco Chronicle -----Original Message----- From: Kris [mailto:kris@firstworld.net] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 8:50 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] From SFGate This is a very nice piece. I hope it makes it into the printed version of the paper. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2001/08/02/skly arov.DTL Kris _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jstyre at jstyre.com Thu Aug 2 11:01:00 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: References: <001701c11b0c$a2888ce0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010802105609.00afa750@earthlink.net> FWIW, Parloff makes no claims to being an unbiased journalist. He is extremely opinionated, he states his opinions, quite forcefully, his pieces usually inspire passion of one sort or another, depending on whether one agrees with his opinion or not. That's what he aims for, he often succeeds. At 01:43 PM 8/2/2001 -0400, Xcott Craver wrote: >On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Doug Lay wrote: > > > (1) This man is scared, and on the defensive. > > I don't know about that. Why would Roger Parloff have any reason > to be scared of eBook/DVD/MP3 piracy? > > I think a lot of Parloff's viewpoint just comes from being an > attorney with a pragmatic, perhaps cynical view of how things > actually play out in court. Take all his articles on Napster, for > instance: to first order, they just seem like standard anti- > napster posturing, but if you look more closely you will see that > he is an attorney criticizing Napster's legal defense strategy. > > I was alarmed by his claim that most people appreciate DMCA-like > protections; companies that actually have to pay to implement DRM > in their hardware and software are painfully aware that consumers > don't appreciate it. > > I also noted that the article trots out the old argument that, > once you use that program, you have a "free and clear" copy that > can then be pirated---and it only takes one copy. Well hey, > the same thing happens every time you successfully remove that > @#$% shrinkwrap from a CD. The mere fact that the music is > suddenly unprotected, vulnerable to piracy, is waved about as > if it is a shocking situation as bad as piracy itself. > > > -Doug > =S > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Aug 2 11:01:29 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From SFGate In-Reply-To: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D45C2@sfc-exmail1> References: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D45C2@sfc-exmail1> Message-ID: <871ymul4sm.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "CK" == Carrie Kirby writes: CK> pieces written by sfgate staff do not migrate to the printed CK> Chronicle. However, there will be a piece on the whole free CK> Dmitry thing in the printed paper. That's cool to hear. I have to say, Neil McAllister's analysis is spot-on, and I'd be amazed if you didn't run that. CK> Carrie Kirby tech reporter San Francisco Chronicle Lurker! B-) ~Klepht P.S. If you need any contacts for people involved locally, drop me a line off-list. I could maybe even get you an interview with Don Marti (no promises). -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From patrick at eff.org Thu Aug 2 11:05:48 2001 From: patrick at eff.org (Patrick Norager) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] SF "Free Dmitry" Protest Audio Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010802110121.00aa9dd0@mail.virtualrecordings.com> Radio EFF Presents: Free Dmitry: Anti-DMCA Protest Guests: Nine protesters share their stories from the front lines of freedom's future Date: July 30, 2001 Location: San Francisco, CA http://radio.eff.org/radio_shows/rfc5.mp3 Topic: Over 100 people gathered at the US Federal building in downtown San Francisco to protest for the release of Dmitry Sklyrov who is the first scientist to be arrested and jailed under criminal provisions of the DMCA. The Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998 endows publishers with new rights to exercise and exert control over your private and personal experience of copyrighted works. Running Time: 5:54 All the best, Patrick <><<><>><><<><>><><<><>><><<><>><><<><>><> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Patrick Norager Radio EFF - General Manager Vox: 415.863.5459 e: patrick@eff.org Radio EFF http://www.eff.org/radioeff (O)pen Audio http://www.eff.org/IP/Open_licenses ???`????,??,????`????,??,???`????,??,????`????,??, "Imaginations exist to be shared" ?,??,????`????,??,????`???,??,????`????,??,????`?? From ckirby at sfchronicle.com Thu Aug 2 11:24:26 2001 From: ckirby at sfchronicle.com (Carrie Kirby) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From SFGate Message-ID: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D45C5@sfc-exmail1> I have to say, Neil McAllister's analysis is spot-on, and I'd be amazed if you didn't run that. well he doesn't write for the san francisco chronicle, he writes for sfgate. so there's no question of running it. anyway, if we did run something like that, it would go in the opinion section. you're all welcome to submit letters to the editor or pieces to the opinion section if you want. the addresses are letters@sfchronicle.com and insight@sfchronicle.com. Carrie From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Aug 2 11:32:15 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From SFGate In-Reply-To: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D45C5@sfc-exmail1> References: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D45C5@sfc-exmail1> Message-ID: <87zo9iia8g.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "CK" == Carrie Kirby writes: CK> well he doesn't write for the san francisco chronicle, he CK> writes for sfgate. so there's no question of running CK> it. Sorry, I guess I'm just really confused about the relationship between the Gate and the Chron. CK> anyway, if we did run something like that, it would go in CK> the opinion section. you're all welcome to submit letters to CK> the editor or pieces to the opinion section if you want. I will do that! ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From dmarti at zgp.org Thu Aug 2 11:38:41 2001 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] SF "Free Dmitry" Protest Audio In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010802110121.00aa9dd0@mail.virtualrecordings.com> Message-ID: <20010802113841.R19873@zgp.org> begin Patrick Norager quotation of Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 11:05:48AM -0700: > http://radio.eff.org/radio_shows/rfc5.mp3 Can you put up Ogg Vorbis versions too? The more people use open and free media formats, the fewer megaphone batteries wind up in our landfills, in the long run. And the fewer Marks-A-Lot fumes end up in Klepht's lungs. So please help keep our groundwater safe and our friends and neighbors off drugs -- use Ogg Vorbis. Thank you. -- Don Marti What do we want? Free Dmitry! When do we want it? Now! http://zgp.org/~dmarti Free Dmitry: http://eff.org/ dmarti@zgp.org Free the web, burn all GIFs: http://burnallgifs.org/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Aug 2 11:42:50 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] SF "Free Dmitry" Protest Audio In-Reply-To: <20010802113841.R19873@zgp.org> References: <20010802113841.R19873@zgp.org> Message-ID: <87vgk6i9qt.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "DM" == Don Marti writes: DM> The more people use open and free media formats, the fewer DM> megaphone batteries wind up in our landfills, in the long run. DM> And the fewer Marks-A-Lot fumes end up in Klepht's lungs. So DM> please help keep our groundwater safe and our friends and DM> neighbors off drugs -- use Ogg Vorbis. Thank you. Please... Patrick... do it for the ... children. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From bsharp at pvcomm.com Thu Aug 2 11:52:45 2001 From: bsharp at pvcomm.com (Brian Sharp) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another possible alternative to spread the word? Message-ID: I just read an article in Wired News called "See our film join our cause" http://www.wired.com/news/digiwood/0,1412,45628,00.html it discusses how popular some of the short internet films are, and how some organizations use them to spread the word for their cause. I would think that will all the creative types that are at odds with Adobe over Dmitry's lockup someone could create one for our cause? Thanks, Brian Sharp PV Communications Inc. bsharp@pvcomm.com From ckirby at sfchronicle.com Thu Aug 2 12:05:29 2001 From: ckirby at sfchronicle.com (Carrie Kirby) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From SFGate Message-ID: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D45C7@sfc-exmail1> Anyone on this list who lives in the San Francisco area, especially if you have participated in the physical protests, please e-mail me off list. I'd like to do some interviews with local supporters today if possible. Carrie Kirby tech writer San Francisco Chronicle From admin at seattle-chat.com Thu Aug 2 12:08:05 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another possible alternative to spread the word? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Actually we discussed that very subject here in Seattle, so I will be coordinating that effort locally, and plan on showing the video on the Local Public access station as well. We are soliciting short interviews etc, looking for protest videos, and especially interview with renowned individuals that may carry some clout. If interested in helping with this, please e-mail me, and I'll give you an address to send videos too. Once the video project is done, I plan on putting it online as well, and will send a video to anyone that wants to have it played on they're local public access stations. You can usually show videos not made locally, but the person submitting needs to be a local resident. Videos need to be in either VHS, SVHS, MiniDV, or Hi8 formats. Videos should also be short. Having a background in Broadcast video (Used to do all aspects of video production for a local PBS station), I can tell you peoples attention spans are short. Let me know what you think, send me an e-mail at admin@seattle-chat.com . Thanks Charles Eakins From robertl1 at home.com Thu Aug 2 15:01:02 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wow! Put the pressure where it hurts the most !! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010802145128.02a09640@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> At 06:23 AM 8/2/01 -0700, you wrote: >Your question is valid. Though this issue is very important to us, there >are more important problems to solve. Still, one must choose a piece of >ground where they turn and fight. This is familiar ground to me. This is >my domain. This is my fight. Who knows where we'll go from here? Maybe >the people I fight with today on this issue, I'll fight against tomorrow on >another. But as long as we are actively learning and participating, we can >outvoice the greedy, ignorant, and apathetic. God willing, we'll even >actually help someone down the line. > >-Adrian P. Dunston Thanks Adrian for a well reasoned and passionate response. My reason for asking is really very simple. I see a group of really very priviliged people (myself included) who are reinventing a lot of wheels. This has some value, but it would IMHO also be a very good thing for the community to reach out and learn from those who have gone into this valley of doom before them. Thus I will continue to pound away on the request that some people visit the ACLU, Amensty International and a number of the organizations listed at http://www.stanford.edu/%7Ehodges/#resources many of whom should be aware and interested in supporting this cause. And that is where I intend to put my own personal efforts. Let's try to broaden the base of this movement. Bob La Quey Free Dmitry http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From vadim at xcf.berkeley.edu Thu Aug 2 17:51:28 2001 From: vadim at xcf.berkeley.edu (Vadim Kogan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] IRC SUMMIT STARTING IN ABOUT 10 MINUTES Message-ID: <20010802175128.H32686@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> Slashnet, #sklyarov http://www.slashnet.org/ Be There! Vadim. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010802/e81d8d73/attachment.pgp From ckirby at sfchronicle.com Thu Aug 2 18:09:08 2001 From: ckirby at sfchronicle.com (Carrie Kirby) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] thanks Bay Area people Message-ID: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D45D6@sfc-exmail1> Thanks to all the Bay Area people who have volunteered to be interviewed. I may not get to all of you, but I'll try Carrie From bobds at blorch.org Thu Aug 2 18:28:08 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] tie a blue ribbon (round the old oak tree) campaign In-Reply-To: <20010802001717.Y2744@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> References: <200108020234494.SM00459@mail.TheMail.com> <20010802001717.Y2744@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <01080218280800.15987@bitworks> On Thursday 02 August 2001 00:17, you wrote: > Frankly, I'm sick of ribbons. > I'm sorry to be so negative, and I really do like the idea of some > physical manifestation of support for Dmitry and against the DMCA, but > ribbons are simply no longer original. C'mon, we can do better! Maybe ribbon CABLE? -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From admin at seattle-chat.com Thu Aug 2 19:16:46 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] tie a blue ribbon (round the old oak tree) campaign In-Reply-To: <01080218280800.15987@bitworks> Message-ID: How about a piece of CAT-5 cable? -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Bob Smart Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 6:28 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] tie a blue ribbon (round the old oak tree) campaign On Thursday 02 August 2001 00:17, you wrote: > Frankly, I'm sick of ribbons. > I'm sorry to be so negative, and I really do like the idea of some > physical manifestation of support for Dmitry and against the DMCA, but > ribbons are simply no longer original. C'mon, we can do better! Maybe ribbon CABLE? -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From kastlyn at unixtribe.net Thu Aug 2 19:34:15 2001 From: kastlyn at unixtribe.net (Kastlyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] brainstorming Message-ID: Here's an idea for a protest.. I thought of this during the IRC chat, but didn't want to bring it up, since Klepht was calling for a move back to the list. =} What about a public book reading? Probably wouldn't want to do an epic novel or anything, *grins* but maybe we could all decide on a short (maybe children's) book, or excerpts from a copyrighted work. I think it's a unique way of showing the publishers that we can and will exercise our fair use rights, and also a good way of getting public and media attention. Also, with respect to a candlelight vigil/march, I think it would be better implemented (and look prettier) if done at night. =} -=Amie=- From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Aug 2 19:56:12 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] SUMMARY: Global IRC Summit Takeaways Message-ID: <87elqtx35f.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> So, these were the takeaways from the global summit: * On principle, we think that there is some synergy in having synchronized nationwide events and planning. * On principle, we also think that local groups must and should deal with local stuff on a timely basis. * We will have two nationwide events in the next month: 8/13 and 8/30. * This doesn't preclude doing other local events or shifting dates slightly if needed. For example, it looks like the DC group is going to concentrate on 8/16 for Usenix. * We will coordinate a nationwide petition drive. Actually, TWO petition drives. * One petition will be for the US Attorney's Office in NorCal, asking them to drop the charges. This will be uniform. * The other will be for congress critters asking them to lean on the USAO, and asking them for support to repeal the DMCA. Local groups will probably amend this slightly (change the names and maybe some details) and use it for their local congress critter. * Seth Schoen will overview and edit the petitions. * NorCal will hold a candlelight march or vigil on or soon after the day that Dmitry arrives in San Jose. If possible, some local groups will synch with this and do a march the same night. * 8/13 and 8/30 events will have no common nationwide theme. However, we encourage all local groups to have some kind of differentiation, so that the events don't get stale and boring for the press. Example: celebrity appearance, street theater, costumes, some kind of other thing happening besides signs, flyers, and yelling. * We will continue to ask nationwide organizations that might have some interest -- Amnesty, ACLU, American Library Association -- to make announcements opposing Dmitry's imprisonment and demanding his release. * We can continue to stay in the news by getting announcements and by having local events. * Emphasis is always on _announcements_ by "allies." We take care of time, money, organization, etc. We just want their public support, which is cheap for them to give and great for us to get. * We will have another global IRC summit on 8/14 at 9PM EDT. OK, hope I didn't miss anything. The summit was frazzling -- lots of talking -- but we did come out with some good stuff (see above). Thanks to everyone who came and also thanks to everyone who bore with me when I sent them an "OFF TOPIC" private message. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From jays at panix.com Thu Aug 2 20:01:17 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] SUMMARY: Global IRC Summit Takeaways In-Reply-To: <87elqtx35f.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: Thanks, Klepht! oo--JS. From rsb at ostel.com Thu Aug 2 20:44:06 2001 From: rsb at ostel.com (Rich Bodo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] SUMMARY: Global IRC Summit Takeaways In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jay, Didn't know you were on this list. Glad to see it. I made it to the first Adobe protest in San Jose. Been a bit busy since, but still lurking here. -Rich Rich Bodo | rsb@ostel.com | 650-964-4678 On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > Thanks, Klepht! > > oo--JS. > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Thu Aug 2 21:33:19 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] MN Photo Message-ID: Here is the response from the gentleman and father in the photo from the MN protest: ----------------------------------------- You found the right persons. The Father and Son pictured is me and my son. Paul and Mitchell Butalla age 35 and 6 FYI [from] Edgar Wisconsin FYI I have no objection to my or my son's image release if it promotes this effort to repeal or severely modify the DMCA. A fair public "Fair Use" policy and intellectual use should be the issue. The best way to release it should be under the "GPL'ed" format or something similiar to this. The "GPL" (General Public License) movement is also a worthy effort. Good luck too you all and We had a wonderful time in Minnesota. Paul Butalla ------------------------------------------------ If anyone has further questions for the gentleman from Wisconsin, I will release his email to journalists; otherwise please forward the questions to me, as I am sure he values his time and privacy. Free Dmitry. Repeal the DMCA. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ From erc at pobox.com Thu Aug 2 22:14:01 2001 From: erc at pobox.com (Ed Carp) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why is Sklyarov still in jail? Message-ID: <200108030514.AAA14569@adsl-208-191-206-105.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net> On reading the affidavit supporting the arrest warrant, it becomes obvious: 1. It ws alleged that Sklyarov had violated the DMCA, but no supporting proof was offered that it was violated on US soil by Sklyarov. Why is he still in jail? Why is the EFF sitting on its hands? Why doesn't someone file a writ of habeas corpus in Federal court to get this man out of jail? Why is he being held incommunicado? Why is he being denied bail? -- Ed Carp, N7EKG erc@pobox.com 214/986-5870 cell phone http://www.pobox.com/~erc I sometimes wonder if the American people deserve to be free - they seem so unwilling to fight to preserve the few freedoms they have left. From gbroiles at well.com Thu Aug 2 22:18:42 2001 From: gbroiles at well.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] American student released from Russian prison Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010802215610.03d5a3d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> I don't know to what extent (if at all) diplomacy is a factor in Dmitry's case, but I read that John Tobin, an American Fulbright scholar arrested earlier this year in Russia on drug charges, has been paroled halfway through his 1-year sentence, following a unanimous vote of his parole board. More information at , a thousand apologies for the crappy URL. -- Greg Broiles gbroiles@well.com "We have found and closed the thing you watch us with." -- New Delhi street kids From crism at maden.org Thu Aug 2 22:26:24 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From SFGate In-Reply-To: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D45C2@sfc-exmail1> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010802222140.026e2a00@mail.maden.org> At 10:50 2-08-2001, Carrie Kirby wrote: >pieces written by sfgate staff do not migrate to the printed Chronicle. >However, there will be a piece on the whole free Dmitry thing in the printed >paper. I hope it gets a few minor details more accurate: Dmitry was not, as far as I know, arrested "[i]mmediately following [his presentation], as he left the stage". That's certainly more dramatic than being arrested at his hotel, but not accurate AFAIK. And I don't believe that DoJ sued 2600 - it was members of the MPAA, no? (Universal City Studios, Inc., et al.) The USA is an "intervenor", but I don't think that's quite the same thing (IANAL). (I also found Bruce Perens's assertion that AEBPR is "popular with blind users" to be a bit odd - it might be, if it were sold, but IIRC something like 9 copies were actually sold before the server was shut down.) -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From kfoss at planetpdf.com Thu Aug 2 22:40:51 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From SFGate In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010802222140.026e2a00@mail.maden.org> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010802222140.026e2a00@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: At 10:26 PM -0700 8/2/01, Christopher R. Maden wrote: >Dmitry was not, as far as I know, arrested "[i]mmediately following >[his presentation] Nope, it was the following morning as he was leaving the Las Vegas hotel. rgds ~ Kurt ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network -- From kmself at ix.netcom.com Thu Aug 2 22:55:18 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] American student released from Russian prison In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010802215610.03d5a3d0@pop3.norton.antivirus>; from gbroiles@well.com on Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 10:18:42PM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010802215610.03d5a3d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20010802225518.C5555@navel.introspect> on Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 10:18:42PM -0700, Greg Broiles (gbroiles@well.com) wrote: > I don't know to what extent (if at all) diplomacy is a factor in Dmitry's > case, but I read that John Tobin, an American Fulbright scholar arrested > earlier this year in Russia on drug charges, has been paroled halfway > through his 1-year sentence, following a unanimous vote of his parole > board. More information at > , > a thousand apologies for the crappy URL. OT: anyone else having a hell of a time reading anything at law.com's website under GNU/Linux? It renders absolutely horribly under Galeon, unreadably, actually. Presumably under Mozilla as well. Opera too from what I'm told. lynx is actually one of the better browsers to use in my experience. This is one site which should advertise "best viewed as source". -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry!! Boycott Adobe!! Repeal the DMCA!! http://www.freesklyarov.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010802/8b7660af/attachment.pgp From ben at kalifornia.com Thu Aug 2 23:06:04 2001 From: ben at kalifornia.com (Ben Ford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From SFGate References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010802222140.026e2a00@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <3B6A3F4C.4060002@kalifornia.com> Christopher R. Maden wrote: > At 10:50 2-08-2001, Carrie Kirby wrote: > >> pieces written by sfgate staff do not migrate to the printed Chronicle. >> However, there will be a piece on the whole free Dmitry thing in the >> printed >> paper. > > > I hope it gets a few minor details more accurate: > > Dmitry was not, as far as I know, arrested "[i]mmediately following > [his presentation], as he left the stage". That's certainly more > dramatic than being arrested at his hotel, but not accurate AFAIK. No, he was not. There was a Fed there that we had spotted the day before, but the didn't do it on site. They went to his room the day after. -b -- Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are going to burn in Hell forever. From mw at themail.com Thu Aug 2 23:22:44 2001 From: mw at themail.com (mw@themail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Damien Cracks me up! Message-ID: <200108030221396.SM00361@mail.TheMail.com> http://www.salon.com/tech/log/2001/08/03/dmitry/index.html Damien has done pretty good coverage of DeCSS, etc. This article takes the cake. __________________________________________________________________ TheMail.com - Full featured premium email you can count on. Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ From david.haworth at altavista.net Thu Aug 2 23:34:12 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] brainstorming In-Reply-To: ; from kastlyn@unixtribe.net on Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 09:34:15PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010803083412.A1989@3soft.de> On Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 09:34:15PM -0500, Kastlyn wrote: > Here's an idea for a protest.. [...] > What about a public book reading? If you could find a work that's in the public domain, but is published as an eBook with the "read aloud" permission denied, you might be able to score a political point or 2. Dave -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From kmself at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 3 00:24:21 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] brainstorming In-Reply-To: <20010803083412.A1989@3soft.de>; from david.haworth@altavista.net on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 08:34:12AM +0200 References: <20010803083412.A1989@3soft.de> Message-ID: <20010803002421.A10118@navel.introspect> on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 08:34:12AM +0200, David Haworth (david.haworth@altavista.net) wrote: > On Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 09:34:15PM -0500, Kastlyn wrote: > > Here's an idea for a protest.. > [...] > > What about a public book reading? > > If you could find a work that's in the public domain, but is > published as an eBook with the "read aloud" permission denied, > you might be able to score a political point or 2. The US Constitution is my own personal pick. Or the Bible, which should score some points with the political conservatives. Consider too that the current bruhaha has been going on since the first lines were scratched in clay. Martin Luther (the German, not the Civil Rights leader, King) committed the unpardonable sin of translating the Bible into the common tongue, from Latin. More recently, every advance in reproduction, storage, and transmission has more or less repeated this debate: phonograph, radio, television, xerox machine, audio tape, video tape, computer, internet, digital media.... Which doesn't directly lend itself to protest ideas, but it may inspire someone. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry!! Boycott Adobe!! Repeal the DMCA!! http://www.freesklyarov.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010803/6584b752/attachment.pgp From roo at ufies.org Fri Aug 3 00:40:51 2001 From: roo at ufies.org (Benjamin Krueger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] brainstorming In-Reply-To: <20010803002421.A10118@navel.introspect> References: <20010803083412.A1989@3soft.de> <20010803002421.A10118@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <20010803004050.I11840@ufies.org> On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 12:24:21AM -0700, Karsten M. Self wrote: > on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 08:34:12AM +0200, David Haworth (david.haworth@altavista.net) wrote: > > On Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 09:34:15PM -0500, Kastlyn wrote: > > > Here's an idea for a protest.. > > [...] > > > What about a public book reading? > > > > If you could find a work that's in the public domain, but is > > published as an eBook with the "read aloud" permission denied, > > you might be able to score a political point or 2. > > The US Constitution is my own personal pick. Or the Bible, which should > score some points with the political conservatives. > > Consider too that the current bruhaha has been going on since the first > lines were scratched in clay. Martin Luther (the German, not the Civil > Rights leader, King) committed the unpardonable sin of translating the > Bible into the common tongue, from Latin. The Bible is probably not a good choice. Most versions of the Bible are Copywritten, not public domain. For the most part, they may be altered or modified, sold or offered for sale, and may not be duplicated. The only version that I am aware of which is public domain is the King James Version. This is according to http://bible.gospelcom.net/bg/bible_faq.html#24 Benjamin Krueger roo@ufies.org Seattle, Wa > More recently, every advance in reproduction, storage, and transmission > has more or less repeated this debate: phonograph, radio, television, > xerox machine, audio tape, video tape, computer, internet, digital > media.... Which doesn't directly lend itself to protest ideas, but it > may inspire someone. From roo at ufies.org Fri Aug 3 00:44:01 2001 From: roo at ufies.org (Benjamin Krueger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] brainstorming In-Reply-To: <20010803004050.I11840@ufies.org> References: <20010803083412.A1989@3soft.de> <20010803002421.A10118@navel.introspect> <20010803004050.I11840@ufies.org> Message-ID: <20010803004401.J11840@ufies.org> On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 12:40:51AM -0700, Benjamin Krueger wrote: > On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 12:24:21AM -0700, Karsten M. Self wrote: > > on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 08:34:12AM +0200, David Haworth (david.haworth@altavista.net) wrote: > > > On Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 09:34:15PM -0500, Kastlyn wrote: > > > > Here's an idea for a protest.. > > > [...] > > > > What about a public book reading? > > > > > > If you could find a work that's in the public domain, but is > > > published as an eBook with the "read aloud" permission denied, > > > you might be able to score a political point or 2. > > > > The US Constitution is my own personal pick. Or the Bible, which should > > score some points with the political conservatives. > > > > Consider too that the current bruhaha has been going on since the first > > lines were scratched in clay. Martin Luther (the German, not the Civil > > Rights leader, King) committed the unpardonable sin of translating the > > Bible into the common tongue, from Latin. > > The Bible is probably not a good choice. Most versions of the Bible are > Copywritten, not public domain. For the most part, they may be altered or "may not be altered or..." time for bed methinks. > modified, sold or offered for sale, and may not be duplicated. The only > version that I am aware of which is public domain is the King James Version. > This is according to http://bible.gospelcom.net/bg/bible_faq.html#24 > > Benjamin Krueger > roo@ufies.org > Seattle, Wa From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Aug 3 00:48:12 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] brainstorming In-Reply-To: <20010803004050.I11840@ufies.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Benjamin Krueger wrote: > > The US Constitution is my own personal pick. Or the Bible, which should > > score some points with the political conservatives. > > The Bible is probably not a good choice. Most versions of the Bible are > Copywritten, not public domain. For the most part, they may be altered or > [...] Using the Bible will also alienate a substantial part of the group who are not Christian as well as the respective part of the observers to whom we are trying to deliver our message. The US Constitution is a better pick, but still doesn't really satisfy the original intent since we are trying to show off the fact that we're making fair use of a COPYRIGHTED work by reading to others from a copyrighted book we bought. Last time I checked, the US Constitution wasn't too copyrighted (or so I should hope...). Pick a recent children's book. Harry Potter or something similar which a large fraction of the population knows about, and which is still subject to copyright law. And then we can do the "50 people to commit a felony at high noon at __(place)__" pitch, too. I think this can be quite effective. -- -alexf From huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com Fri Aug 3 01:41:22 2001 From: huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com (huaiyu_zhu@yahoo.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: free-sklyarov digest, Vol 1 #185 - 87 msgs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: With regard to Roger Parloff's article at www.inside.com: This article is perhaps the first time the pro-DMCA side presented anything credible and honest for their arguments. So it is also a good opportunity to refine our own thoughts and arguemnts. One thing that will become clear over the long run is that neither side will win the argument by making claims on abstract rights. The truth is that there is no feasible technology that can perfectly protect the rights of everyone without infringing on the rights of others. Parloff's point is that by making unprotected copies available, even if most of these are for legitimate uses, Sklyarov created an opportunity for illegal copying. And in the digital age it only takes one illegal copy to spread to the whole Internet. And punishing Sklyarov is the most effective way to prevent this from happening. I think this is a valid argument for one angle of the problem. But there are more important counter arguments. It is true that digital technologies pose new threats to certain rights of certain sections of society, while providing new opportunities for many people to enjoy their rights in new ways. Just as any new technology has always done. But DMCA holds the IP rights as absolute right that trumps human rights and consumer rights of everybody else with little contrition. Parloff effectively says that the right of Adobe to protect their profit is very important, because it is a very big financial sum (even though it is made up of $9 sales), while the right of researchers to free speech, the right of consumers for fair use, and the right of disabled people for equal access should take second seat, because they don't have that much financial stakes. (He actually made some calculations.) He essentially says that it is acceptable to punish a tool maker if the tool can potentially be used unlawfully and if it would be difficult to catch and punish those who actually break the law. If it takes away the personal freedom and the freedom of speech for one individual, so be it, as long as this creates a bottleneck for the unlawful activities. He implies that it might even be reasonable to punish an employee of a toolmaker if it is difficult to punish the company. Or just hold him hostage until such time that its managers can be caught. He implies that it is acceptable to hand out *preventive punishments* even if no one has ever used the tool for any unlawful uses just yet, as long as the possibility for unlawful use exists. This is very similar to the way some totalitarian regimes justify their infringement on human rights: mistreating dissidents is necessary to ensure social stability, which is deemed to have a larger value. "If an idea is dangerous, punish the messenger before it spreads." DMCA allows one side of the conflict to infringe on a variety of fundamental rights of everybody else, just so as to protect its own financial rights from infringements that might not have materialized. If we hold it to be self-evident that all men are created equal, then such biased laws are very wrong. Huaiyu Zhu [Permision hereby granted for inclusion into any collection of comments /counter-comments. Editorial changes (such as linking to actual articles) welcome and appreciated.] From nbhs2 at i-2000.com Fri Aug 3 03:16:23 2001 From: nbhs2 at i-2000.com (Michael Scottaline) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] American student released from Russian prison In-Reply-To: <20010802225518.C5555@navel.introspect> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010802215610.03d5a3d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <20010802225518.C5555@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <20010803061623.139cf266.nbhs2@i-2000.com> On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:55:18 -0700 "Karsten M. Self" insightfully noted: , KS> > a thousand apologies for the crappy URL. KS> KS> OT: anyone else having a hell of a time reading anything at law.com's KS> website under GNU/Linux? It renders absolutely horribly under Galeon, KS> unreadably, actually. Presumably under Mozilla as well. Opera too KS> from KS> what I'm told. lynx is actually one of the better browsers to use in KS> my KS> experience. KS> KS> This is one site which should advertise "best viewed as source". ==================================== Just viewed the above site in Opera 5.0 [linux 2.2.16]. Some overlapping of lines. When I hit the "printer Friendly" version, the article came up perfectly. but your right: the site itself does not render properly in Linux version of Opera. Mike -- "Always remember, I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me." --Winston Churchill From kmself at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 3 04:24:39 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] brainstorming In-Reply-To: ; from alexf@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 12:48:12AM -0700 References: <20010803004050.I11840@ufies.org> Message-ID: <20010803042439.A16699@navel.introspect> on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 12:48:12AM -0700, Alex Fabrikant (alexf@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu) wrote: > On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Benjamin Krueger wrote: > > > The US Constitution is my own personal pick. Or the Bible, which should > > > score some points with the political conservatives. > > > > The Bible is probably not a good choice. Most versions of the Bible are > > Copywritten, not public domain. For the most part, they may be altered or > > [...] > > Using the Bible will also alienate a substantial part of the group who are > not Christian as well as the respective part of the observers to whom we > are trying to deliver our message. Well, there's a conflict here: do we want a public domain work or one that's copyrighted? The Bible would fit either bill, it seems. As for the Christian/non-Christian groupings, don't be too quick to lump me into one category or the other. While I'm not particularly religious, I would suggest that the impact this work has with both legislators and the public, particularly with a conservative administration in Washington, shouldn't be underestimated. Personally, I'd prefer finding a good Old Testament passage (note OT shares much with Judaism and Islam), possibly Ecclesiases. Point being: the Congressman or Senator who has to go home, face the folks, and answer why it is that they could spend five years in jail for reading the bible, is going to have some heat to deal with. I'm not suggesting this text for any other reason. By all means pick additional texts, but this is a good one from a political perspective. > The US Constitution is a better pick, but still doesn't really satisfy > the original intent since we are trying to show off the fact that > we're making fair use of a COPYRIGHTED work by reading to others from > a copyrighted book we bought. Last time I checked, the US Constitution > wasn't too copyrighted (or so I should hope...). There are a few different angles. One is to make clear to people that DMCA 1201 has absolutely nothing to do with copyright and absolutely everything to do with access control. Bible, Constitution, or other, less loaded, traditional works, no longer copyrighted, would be a good demonstration of this. > Pick a recent children's book. Harry Potter or something similar which > a large fraction of the population knows about, and which is still > subject to copyright law. And then we can do the "50 people to commit > a felony at high noon at __(place)__" pitch, too. I think this can be > quite effective. This hits the other side, which is to show that the rights people don't even think about -- they just *are* -- with traditional media, no longer exist. But the message isn't quite so clear -- you're now dealing with two concepts: fair use, and access. The first demonstration makes very clear that there's something very wrong with the DMCA, regardless of the wor. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry!! Boycott Adobe!! Repeal the DMCA!! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010803/bf3cccba/attachment.pgp From pmasloch at earthlink.net Fri Aug 3 05:46:15 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] American Student in Russia Message-ID: I wished they would do the same for an russian programmer arrested in the US: R O S S O S H, Russia Aug. 3 ? American Fulbright scholar John Tobin was released today from a Russian prison after serving half of a one-year drug sentence and winning a parole recommendation, ending a high-profile imprisonment that had strained U.S.-Russia relations. http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/tobin010803.html Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org From pmasloch at earthlink.net Fri Aug 3 05:56:11 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An unofficial statement Message-ID: I got this answer form a member of the green party in germany of my question to comment on the arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov and the DMCA: Peter -----Original Message----- From: Rita Griesshaber [mailto:Rita.Griesshaber@bundestag.de] Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 6:06 AM To: pmasloch@earthlink.net Subject: Re: question Dear Peter Masloch, I am the personal assistant of Rita Griesshaber, member of parliament and of the Green Party und responsible for transatlantic relations. In my mind, Dmitry Sklyarov should be immediately released, but this is my peronal opinion. As Rita Griesshaber is on holiday at the moment and I'm not a specialist concerning intellectual property rights, I will send your question to our legal advice service and ask them for a statement. I hope you understand this procedure and promise to send you an answer as soon as I'll get one. Sincerely, Uta Stitz -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Rita.Griesshaber.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 344 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010803/006b9e81/Rita.Griesshaber.vcf From bsharp at pvcomm.com Fri Aug 3 06:00:29 2001 From: bsharp at pvcomm.com (Brian Sharp) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another possible alternative to spread the word? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That would be great idea too, I don't think I could be of any help though (I wish I could), I don't really have and graphics or production skills, and come from a very small community that has no public access channels. I am just a lowly network admin for a small graphics company. I was thinking more of a short somewhat humorous clip or cartoon similar to the "Fix Cats" one at http://www.fixcats.com/, the DeBeer's spoof at http://www.amnestyusa.org/diamonds/d4.html or even the "Napster Bad!" ones created by Camp Chaos at http://www.campchaos.com/cartoons/napsterbad/ these get peoples attention even if they do not feel as strongly as some of us do, and they tend to email them to others. The more people that understand and are aware of the situation the better our chances are of making a real change to the system (IMHO). Thanks, Brian Sharp PV Communications Inc. bsharp@pvcomm.com From chris.savage at crblaw.com Fri Aug 3 06:15:16 2001 From: chris.savage at crblaw.com (Chris Savage) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] brainstorming Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: Kastlyn [mailto:kastlyn@unixtribe.net] >Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:34 PM >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net >Subject: [free-sklyarov] brainstorming > > >Here's an idea for a protest.. I thought of this during the IRC chat, >but didn't want to bring it up, since Klepht was calling for a move >back to the list. =} What about a public book reading? Probably >wouldn't want to do an epic novel or anything, *grins* but >maybe we could all decide on a short (maybe children's) book, or >excerpts from a copyrighted work. Children's books are, of course, copyrighted. I'd recommend a book called "The Three Little Wolves and the Big Bad Pig" which, aside from being a hoot, is a good illustration of the illusion of security measures... Chris S. *************************************************************************** This electronic mail transmission may contain confidential or privileged information. If you believe that you have received the message in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. *************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010803/4cd9dfe5/attachment.html From david.haworth at altavista.net Fri Aug 3 06:50:04 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] brainstorming In-Reply-To: ; from chris.savage@crblaw.com on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 09:15:16AM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010803155004.A2434@3soft.de> On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 09:15:16AM -0400, Chris Savage wrote: > Children's books are, of course, copyrighted. Of course, the content might not be, just the edition. Most nursery rhymes (AFAIK) are part of the "oral tradition" (in the UK at least). > I'd recommend a book called "The Three Little Wolves and the Big Bad Pig" > which, aside from being a hoot, is a good illustration of the illusion of > security measures... I'd never heard that version before - it's a good one. -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From jsheldon at rochester.rr.com Fri Aug 3 07:48:53 2001 From: jsheldon at rochester.rr.com (Jason Sheldon) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:11 2005 Subject: kids & PR [Re: [free-sklyarov] More Minnesota pictures] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01080310485300.17994@neo> There is no problem with that picture. He's wearing a Pat Buchanan t-shirt. Enough said! On Wednesday 01 August 2001 05:28 pm, Alex Fabrikant wrote: > On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, alfee cube wrote: > > great pics - love the one of the (father & son?) > > holding hands and a sign which says > > "if i make a copy it is fair use - if i help you do it > > it is a felony" > > they say a pic is a 1k words - this has to be 10k min > > This is the picture Alfee is talking about: > > http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~eriksson/antidmca/freedmitry/mn010730/dcp_1489.jpg > > I think there's a point that needs to be made here -- I really do think > that photo is VERY effective PR for all of us. It does wonders for > shifting our image from "disgruntled geeks" (which I'm quite happy with, > but the public won't be too sympathetic to) to "average American citizen > and family man whose rights are being trampled upon" (which should strike > a much better chord with the public). So, to all the parents out there -- > if possible (and plausible), consider bringing your kids to the rallies. > It can be a good chance to teach them a lesson or two about taking an > active part in the way society is run, and, I bet, is REALLY DAMN GOOD PR. > > Actually, if permission can be obtained from the photographer and the > person pictureed, this could also be a good photo to give to the media if > they ask for photos, too... From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Aug 3 07:55:44 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why is Sklyarov still in jail? In-Reply-To: <200108030514.AAA14569@adsl-208-191-206-105.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net>; from erc@pobox.com on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 12:14:01AM -0500 References: <200108030514.AAA14569@adsl-208-191-206-105.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net> Message-ID: <20010803075544.Y11634@zork.net> Ed Carp writes: > Why is he still in jail? Why is the EFF sitting on its hands? EFF isn't representing Dmitry Sklyarov. Joseph Burton is representing Dmitry Sklyarov. EFF is working hard on this case, but can't make legal motions on behalf of Sklyarov. > Why doesn't > someone file a writ of habeas corpus in Federal court to get this man out of > jail? "Too early" -- an experienced lawyer. Nobody feels that the government has violated legal standards for a speedy and public trial yet. Committed a monstrous injustice, yes. Made the U.S. look ridiculous and frightening to the rest of the world, sure. Violated legal standards for procedural due process in criminal cases, no. > Why is he being held incommunicado? He's not. > Why is he being denied bail? The bail hearing hasn't happened yet. Sklyarov is being treated, say attorneys, no worse than your typical Federal prisoner. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From nick at zork.net Fri Aug 3 07:57:47 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] IRC Summit log Message-ID: <20010803075747.M29501@zork.net> There exist logs of the IRC summit meeting up at http://zork.net/dmitry/summit/ #sklyarov-discuss.log shows the unmoderated channel, and #sklyarov.log shows the moderated channel. Thanks to all who participated! -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From bobds at blorch.org Fri Aug 3 08:02:40 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] brainstorming In-Reply-To: <20010803042439.A16699@navel.introspect> References: <20010803004050.I11840@ufies.org> <20010803042439.A16699@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <01080308024006.15987@bitworks> On Friday 03 August 2001 04:24, you wrote: > Point being: the Congressman or Senator who has to go home, face the > folks, and answer why it is that they could spend five years in jail for > reading the bible, is going to have some heat to deal with. I'm not > suggesting this text for any other reason. I think the Bible would be a mistake. There are already other groups attempting to establish that religious practices should override or be exempt from various laws. I'm thinking here of various instances when Christian organizations have asserted that their religious convictions should excuse them from antidiscriminaion civil rights laws; and of a recent dispute over whether a church should be subject to secular land use or zoning regulations. Whatever side one is on, I don't think it will help our cause to muddy the waters with an essentially unrelated issue. Pick ANYTHING but the Bible. Religion is already politicized enough. -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Fri Aug 3 08:32:13 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Damien Cracks me up! Message-ID: Would it be so funny if each one of those ideas hadn't first surfaced on this list as suggestions for action? (Except maybe the kidnapping one). > http://www.salon.com/tech/log/2001/08/03/dmitry/index.html > > Damien has done pretty good coverage of DeCSS, etc. > This article takes the cake. Free Dmitry. Repeal the DMCA. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ From kris at firstworld.net Fri Aug 3 08:43:51 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: free-sklyarov digest, Vol 1 #185 - 87 msgs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010803084050.00a9bc38@pop.firstworld.net> At 01:41 AM 8/3/2001 -0700, huaiyu_zhu@yahoo.com wrote: >Parloff effectively says that the right of Adobe to protect their profit >is very important, because it is a very big financial sum (even though >it is made up of $9 sales), while the right of researchers to free >speech, the right of consumers for fair use, and the right of disabled >people for equal access should take second seat, because they don't have >that much financial stakes. (He actually made some calculations.) Exactly. Human Rights are more important the Corporate Profits. >This is very similar to the way some totalitarian regimes justify their >infringement on human rights: mistreating dissidents is necessary to >ensure social stability, which is deemed to have a larger value. Corporate Fascism. >If we hold it to be self-evident that all men are created equal, then >such biased laws are very wrong. Excellent post. Kris From Zimran_Ahmed at monitor.com Fri Aug 3 08:48:00 2001 From: Zimran_Ahmed at monitor.com (Zimran Ahmed) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NYC protest Message-ID: <83DF1237CEA45349A062C25F2ADE2ADB719D47@bos-exch01.edgebeetle.com> i'll be at bryant park at 5pm also, if that's where the protest will be. (Note, the park will be showing "Rear Window at sunset that same day, so there will be *many* people camped out there.) Zimran ****** http://www.winterspeak.com From jono at microshaft.org Fri Aug 3 09:09:04 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] brainstorming In-Reply-To: <20010803083412.A1989@3soft.de>; from david.haworth@altavista.net on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 08:34:12AM +0200 References: <20010803083412.A1989@3soft.de> Message-ID: <20010803090904.A76099@networkcommand.com> How about The Emperor Wears No Clothes? Someone made this comment on a message board. Adobe is attempting to protect Adobe's attempt at making e-books secure. It was faulty. Someone found out and is now arrested. On 03-Aug-2001, David Haworth wrote: > On Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 09:34:15PM -0500, Kastlyn wrote: > > Here's an idea for a protest.. > [...] > > What about a public book reading? > > If you could find a work that's in the public domain, but is > published as an eBook with the "read aloud" permission denied, > you might be able to score a political point or 2. > > Dave > > > -- > David Haworth > Baiersdorf, Germany > david.haworth@altavista.net > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From caiaphas at operamail.com Fri Aug 3 09:14:48 2001 From: caiaphas at operamail.com (caiaphas@operamail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov article in this week's Economist Message-ID: http://www.economist.co.uk/World/na/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=719084 for those with a subscription (or a circumvention device). The article also mentions Felten's DMCA challenge & the 2600 appeal. "But Dmitry did no wrong - a clumsy law lands a Russian programmer in an American jail" it concludes: "...Predictably, at www.freesklyarov.org, the schedule for more protests is getting longer. And rightly so." From jays at panix.com Fri Aug 3 10:29:45 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] IRC Summit log In-Reply-To: <20010803075747.M29501@zork.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Nick Moffitt wrote: > There exist logs of the IRC summit meeting up at > http://zork.net/dmitry/summit/ > > #sklyarov-discuss.log shows the unmoderated channel, and #sklyarov.log > shows the moderated channel. Thanks to all who participated! Thanks, Nick! oo--JS. From ckirby at sfchronicle.com Fri Aug 3 11:03:01 2001 From: ckirby at sfchronicle.com (Carrie Kirby) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: boycottadobe.com logo Message-ID: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D45E1@sfc-exmail1> i've seen dmitry's age as 26 and 27 in various places. can anyone give me an authoritative answer on which it is? it's for the chronicle article. carrie kirby From sisgeek at yahoo.com Fri Aug 3 11:53:20 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why is Sklyarov still in jail? In-Reply-To: <20010803075544.Y11634@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010803185320.16891.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> > > > Why doesn't > > someone file a writ of habeas corpus in Federal > court to get this man out of > > jail? > > "Too early" -- an experienced lawyer. > > Nobody feels that the government has violated legal > standards for a > speedy and public trial yet. Committed a monstrous > injustice, yes. > Made the U.S. look ridiculous and frightening to the > rest of the > world, sure. Violated legal standards for > procedural due process in > criminal cases, no. > maybe this is true? - but there are allot of us who think he is being charged under an unconstitutional section of a statute and you can't violate american legal standards or procedural or substantive due process more than that!!!!!! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Fri Aug 3 11:54:37 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:12 2005 Subject: kids & PR [Re: [free-sklyarov] More Minnesota pictures] In-Reply-To: <01080310485300.17994@neo> Message-ID: <20010803185437.57719.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com> i dont care if he's wears no shirt! --- Jason Sheldon wrote: > There is no problem with that picture. He's wearing > a Pat Buchanan t-shirt. > Enough said! > > On Wednesday 01 August 2001 05:28 pm, Alex Fabrikant > wrote: > > On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, alfee cube wrote: > > > great pics - love the one of the (father & son?) > > > holding hands and a sign which says > > > "if i make a copy it is fair use - if i help you > do it > > > it is a felony" > > > they say a pic is a 1k words - this has to be > 10k min > > > > This is the picture Alfee is talking about: > > > > > http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~eriksson/antidmca/freedmitry/mn010730/dcp_1489.jpg > > > > I think there's a point that needs to be made here > -- I really do think > > that photo is VERY effective PR for all of us. It > does wonders for > > shifting our image from "disgruntled geeks" (which > I'm quite happy with, > > but the public won't be too sympathetic to) to > "average American citizen > > and family man whose rights are being trampled > upon" (which should strike > > a much better chord with the public). So, to all > the parents out there -- > > if possible (and plausible), consider bringing > your kids to the rallies. > > It can be a good chance to teach them a lesson or > two about taking an > > active part in the way society is run, and, I bet, > is REALLY DAMN GOOD PR. > > > > Actually, if permission can be obtained from the > photographer and the > > person pictureed, this could also be a good photo > to give to the media if > > they ask for photos, too... > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Aug 3 12:04:20 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why is Sklyarov still in jail? In-Reply-To: <20010803185320.16891.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com>; from sisgeek@yahoo.com on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 11:53:20AM -0700 References: <20010803075544.Y11634@zork.net> <20010803185320.16891.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010803120420.Z11634@zork.net> alfee cube writes: > maybe this is true? - but there are allot of us who > think he is being charged under an unconstitutional > section of a statute and you can't violate american > legal standards or procedural or substantive due > process more than that!!!!!! Hmmm, that's not true. The procedural due process idea goes that, if you are charged with violating an unconstitutional law, you will get your day in court and it thereupon will be revealed that the law is unconstitutional. This is why a lot of people think that procedural due process isn't the be-all and end-all: but it's pretty much all courts are worried about if you inquire whether the legal process is being followed properly or not. -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe I'm looking for work: http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/resume.html From nick at zork.net Fri Aug 3 12:08:00 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why is Sklyarov still in jail? In-Reply-To: <20010803120420.Z11634@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 12:04:20PM -0700 References: <20010803075544.Y11634@zork.net> <20010803185320.16891.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> <20010803120420.Z11634@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010803120800.K21720@zork.net> Begin The ASCII Floating Head of Seth David Schoen quotation: > Hmmm, that's not true. The procedural due process idea goes that, > if you are charged with violating an unconstitutional law, you will > get your day in court and it thereupon will be revealed that the law > is unconstitutional. The courts, at this point, will no doubt claim that they were Just Following Orders. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From cmartini at cisco.com Fri Aug 3 12:12:41 2001 From: cmartini at cisco.com (Chuck Martini) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] brainstorming, book-reading Message-ID: How about somebody w/a laptop reading a section of an e-book aloud? ==================================== Chuck Martini Consulting Systems Engineer Service Provider Engineering Cisco Systems, Inc. From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Aug 3 12:28:07 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [dave@farber.net: IP: FREE SKLYAROV protest in London - from NTK] Message-ID: <20010803122807.B11634@zork.net> Very nice! Keep those event updates headed to calendar@freesklyarov.org. ----- Forwarded message from David Farber ----- Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 14:23:12 -0400 To: ip-sub-1@majordomo.pobox.com From: David Farber Subject: IP: FREE SKLYAROV protest in London - from NTK >From: "Rob Raisch" >To: "David Farber" > > > Despite fears of the usual authority-distrusting programmers > milling around in "what do we do now?" disarray, we're pleased > to report that, at time of writing, the UK's highest-profile > FREE SKLYAROV protest went without a hitch outside the US > embassy in London this lunchtime. Baffled onlookers and a van > full of riot police had Sklyarov's unjustifiable incarceration > [see previous NTKs] explained to them by means of leaflets, > placards, chanting, "street theatre" reconstructions of his > arrest, and impromptu filk versions of "YMCA" but with the > lyrics changed to be about the "DMCA" instead. Attendance was > estimated at "between 30 and 40" by organiser Dan Aykroyd, who > doesn't look like he does on the telly at all, and "refused to > be drawn" on why the other cast members of Sneakers couldn't > make it. Assuming no other railway stations blow up between > now and then, the whole thing should be on Newsnight at > 10.30pm tonight, though we bet they just show the bit where > we're wandering round Hyde Park trying to work out where the > embassy is, with some smart-arse "geeks couldn't organise a > piss-up in a brewery" commentary from Paxman. > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t281-s2092269,00.html > - many from as far away as Cambridge and Underground Zone 4 > http://www.xenoclast.org/freesklyarov/ > - and a good time was had by all > http://www.google.com/search?q=dmca+ymca > - also thought this tune would go well with "My-S-Q-L" > > >From NTK - Need To Know : the weekly high-tech sarcastic update for the uk >http://www.ntk.net/ > >--rr (rob raisch) >Senior Architect, http://www.imakenews.com/ >providing end-to-end managed online newsletters For archives see: http://www.interesting-people.org/ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From sisgeek at yahoo.com Fri Aug 3 12:41:26 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why is Sklyarov still in jail? In-Reply-To: <20010803120420.Z11634@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010803194126.44275.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> perhaps an example: let us assume congress, in all their collective wisdom, passed a law saying anybody who tells another about somebody who told another about a "circumvention device" will spend five years in jail and pay $500k fine. let us further assume along comes carrie kirby, reporter and investigator of all thing interesting, who prints a story about the jailing of dmitry sklyarov. she is arrest under the above law and the arrest is enthusiastically supported by those passing the above law. how many hours do you think ms kirby would spend in jail? --- Seth David Schoen wrote: > alfee cube writes: > > > maybe this is true? - but there are allot of us > who > > think he is being charged under an > unconstitutional > > section of a statute and you can't violate > american > > legal standards or procedural or substantive due > > process more than that!!!!!! > > Hmmm, that's not true. The procedural due process > idea goes that, if > you are charged with violating an unconstitutional > law, you will get > your day in court and it thereupon will be revealed > that the law is > unconstitutional. > > This is why a lot of people think that procedural > due process isn't > the be-all and end-all: but it's pretty much all > courts are worried > about if you inquire whether the legal process is > being followed > properly or not. > > -- > Seth David Schoen | Lending, > printing, copying, giving > Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and > text-to-speech are permissions > down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by > the publisher. -- Adobe > I'm looking for work: > http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/resume.html > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From admin at seattle-chat.com Fri Aug 3 12:41:35 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] brainstorming In-Reply-To: <20010803042439.A16699@navel.introspect> Message-ID: You know "It's a Wonderful Life" is also public domain. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Karsten M. Self Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 4:25 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] brainstorming on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 12:48:12AM -0700, Alex Fabrikant (alexf@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu) wrote: > On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Benjamin Krueger wrote: > > > The US Constitution is my own personal pick. Or the Bible, which should > > > score some points with the political conservatives. > > > > The Bible is probably not a good choice. Most versions of the Bible are > > Copywritten, not public domain. For the most part, they may be altered or > > [...] > > Using the Bible will also alienate a substantial part of the group who are > not Christian as well as the respective part of the observers to whom we > are trying to deliver our message. Well, there's a conflict here: do we want a public domain work or one that's copyrighted? The Bible would fit either bill, it seems. As for the Christian/non-Christian groupings, don't be too quick to lump me into one category or the other. While I'm not particularly religious, I would suggest that the impact this work has with both legislators and the public, particularly with a conservative administration in Washington, shouldn't be underestimated. Personally, I'd prefer finding a good Old Testament passage (note OT shares much with Judaism and Islam), possibly Ecclesiases. Point being: the Congressman or Senator who has to go home, face the folks, and answer why it is that they could spend five years in jail for reading the bible, is going to have some heat to deal with. I'm not suggesting this text for any other reason. By all means pick additional texts, but this is a good one from a political perspective. > The US Constitution is a better pick, but still doesn't really satisfy > the original intent since we are trying to show off the fact that > we're making fair use of a COPYRIGHTED work by reading to others from > a copyrighted book we bought. Last time I checked, the US Constitution > wasn't too copyrighted (or so I should hope...). There are a few different angles. One is to make clear to people that DMCA 1201 has absolutely nothing to do with copyright and absolutely everything to do with access control. Bible, Constitution, or other, less loaded, traditional works, no longer copyrighted, would be a good demonstration of this. > Pick a recent children's book. Harry Potter or something similar which > a large fraction of the population knows about, and which is still > subject to copyright law. And then we can do the "50 people to commit > a felony at high noon at __(place)__" pitch, too. I think this can be > quite effective. This hits the other side, which is to show that the rights people don't even think about -- they just *are* -- with traditional media, no longer exist. But the message isn't quite so clear -- you're now dealing with two concepts: fair use, and access. The first demonstration makes very clear that there's something very wrong with the DMCA, regardless of the wor. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry!! Boycott Adobe!! Repeal the DMCA!! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html From sisgeek at yahoo.com Fri Aug 3 12:14:36 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] thanks Bay Area people In-Reply-To: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D45D6@sfc-exmail1> Message-ID: <20010803191436.35747.qmail@web13903.mail.yahoo.com> thanks for your interest in reporting the important and fundamental issues raised in US vs Sklyarov! look forward to reading your article(s) --- Carrie Kirby wrote: > Thanks to all the Bay Area people who have > volunteered to be interviewed. I > may not get to all of you, but I'll try > > Carrie > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From admin at seattle-chat.com Fri Aug 3 12:46:59 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why is Sklyarov still in jail? In-Reply-To: <20010803194126.44275.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: They would say she isn't a flight risk. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of alfee cube Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:41 PM To: Seth David Schoen; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Why is Sklyarov still in jail? perhaps an example: let us assume congress, in all their collective wisdom, passed a law saying anybody who tells another about somebody who told another about a "circumvention device" will spend five years in jail and pay $500k fine. let us further assume along comes carrie kirby, reporter and investigator of all thing interesting, who prints a story about the jailing of dmitry sklyarov. she is arrest under the above law and the arrest is enthusiastically supported by those passing the above law. how many hours do you think ms kirby would spend in jail? --- Seth David Schoen wrote: > alfee cube writes: > > > maybe this is true? - but there are allot of us > who > > think he is being charged under an > unconstitutional > > section of a statute and you can't violate > american > > legal standards or procedural or substantive due > > process more than that!!!!!! > > Hmmm, that's not true. The procedural due process > idea goes that, if > you are charged with violating an unconstitutional > law, you will get > your day in court and it thereupon will be revealed > that the law is > unconstitutional. > > This is why a lot of people think that procedural > due process isn't > the be-all and end-all: but it's pretty much all > courts are worried > about if you inquire whether the legal process is > being followed > properly or not. > > -- > Seth David Schoen | Lending, > printing, copying, giving > Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and > text-to-speech are permissions > down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by > the publisher. -- Adobe > I'm looking for work: > http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/resume.html > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From kastlyn at unixtribe.net Fri Aug 3 13:27:50 2001 From: kastlyn at unixtribe.net (Kastlyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] brainstorming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The fundamental issue behind it is to exercise the fair-use of works NOT in the public domain. There are many works in the public domain. Like Shakespeare's works. (The interesting thing to point out here, though a little off topic, is - where would we be if the many works that Shakespeare heavily based much of his work on, had NOT been in the public domain. How many of the great works of the past would we not have today if such draconian control of "Intellectual Property" had been in place centuries ago?) Though I'm not adverse to reading something that is in the public domain, I think the focus should be on something that is _not_ in the public domain. "The Emperor's New Clothes" is a good sugestion, and I'm not familiar with The Three Wolves and the Big Bad Pig, but I'll check into it. =} Also, I think the Constitution is a good idea to be read, maybe after the reading of a copyrighted work. To bring home the idea that we are perfectly within our rights in what we're doing. Also, I caution against using the Bible. Though many people hold it to be sacred, many people do not, and I'd rather not alienate people by bringing (any) religion into it. -=Amie=- On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Charles Eakins wrote: > You know "It's a Wonderful Life" is also public domain. > > -----Original Message----- > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Karsten M. Self > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 4:25 AM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] brainstorming > > > on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 12:48:12AM -0700, Alex Fabrikant > (alexf@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu) wrote: > > On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Benjamin Krueger wrote: > > > > The US Constitution is my own personal pick. Or the Bible, which > should > > > > score some points with the political conservatives. > > > > > > The Bible is probably not a good choice. Most versions of the Bible are > > > Copywritten, not public domain. For the most part, they may be altered > or > > > [...] > > > > Using the Bible will also alienate a substantial part of the group who are > > not Christian as well as the respective part of the observers to whom we > > are trying to deliver our message. > > Well, there's a conflict here: do we want a public domain work or one > that's copyrighted? The Bible would fit either bill, it seems. > > As for the Christian/non-Christian groupings, don't be too quick to lump > me into one category or the other. While I'm not particularly > religious, I would suggest that the impact this work has with both > legislators and the public, particularly with a conservative > administration in Washington, shouldn't be underestimated. Personally, > I'd prefer finding a good Old Testament passage (note OT shares much > with Judaism and Islam), possibly Ecclesiases. > > Point being: the Congressman or Senator who has to go home, face the > folks, and answer why it is that they could spend five years in jail for > reading the bible, is going to have some heat to deal with. I'm not > suggesting this text for any other reason. > > By all means pick additional texts, but this is a good one from a > political perspective. > > > The US Constitution is a better pick, but still doesn't really satisfy > > the original intent since we are trying to show off the fact that > > we're making fair use of a COPYRIGHTED work by reading to others from > > a copyrighted book we bought. Last time I checked, the US Constitution > > wasn't too copyrighted (or so I should hope...). > > There are a few different angles. One is to make clear to people that > DMCA 1201 has absolutely nothing to do with copyright and absolutely > everything to do with access control. Bible, Constitution, or other, > less loaded, traditional works, no longer copyrighted, would be a good > demonstration of this. > > > Pick a recent children's book. Harry Potter or something similar which > > a large fraction of the population knows about, and which is still > > subject to copyright law. And then we can do the "50 people to commit > > a felony at high noon at __(place)__" pitch, too. I think this can be > > quite effective. > > This hits the other side, which is to show that the rights people don't > even think about -- they just *are* -- with traditional media, no longer > exist. But the message isn't quite so clear -- you're now dealing with > two concepts: fair use, and access. The first demonstration makes very > clear that there's something very wrong with the DMCA, regardless of the > wor. > > -- > Karsten M. Self > http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ > What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 > cabal > http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ > http://www.kuro5hin.org > Free Dmitry!! Boycott Adobe!! Repeal the DMCA!! > http://www.freesklyarov.org > Geek for Hire > http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From akatalov at elcomsoft.com Fri Aug 3 14:13:18 2001 From: akatalov at elcomsoft.com (Alex Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry was moved Message-ID: <137319653.20010803141318@elcomsoft.com> It seems that today morning Dmitry was moved from Oklahoma to (???) -- Best regards, Alex mailto:akatalov@elcomsoft.com From akatalov at elcomsoft.com Fri Aug 3 14:21:31 2001 From: akatalov at elcomsoft.com (Alex Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WIRED Rave Awards Message-ID: <139812763.20010803142131@elcomsoft.com> Dear , > Dmitry Sklyarov has been nominated in the Tech Renegade category in > WIRED Magazine's 2001 WIRED Rave Awards. Can anybody explain me, is this a "good" category: "Tech Renegade"??? My English is too pure ;-) -- Best regards, Alex mailto:akatalov@elcomsoft.com From free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org Fri Aug 3 14:34:10 2001 From: free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org (Julian T. J. Midgley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] London protests attracted significant press attention Message-ID: See http://www.ntk.net/ for a typically amusing report of this afternoon's protest at the US Embassy in London. The protest should be covered in some depth on Newsnight at 1030 on BBC2- it looks like they are planning to run with it, since we are mentioned in the programme for tonight at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/events/newsnight/newsid_248000/248099.stm A streaming webcast of the Newsnight programme should be available from the same location at 1030 BST (GMT +1) (ie. approximately as I write this). I'm expecting a good 5-10 minute slot dedicated to the protests, (shortly after the bomb piece screening right about now). Aside from the BBC camera crew, reporters from NTK, Silicon.com, the New Scientist and at least one other magazine attended the protest, which went extremely smoothly. Attendance varied as people came and went from work, with a core of 25-30 protestors, probably peaking somewhere between 35 and 40 on the initial march through Hyde Park (or, more accurately, the yoyoing back and forth in front of the BBC's camera in Hyde Park, for several takes). I estimate that we handed out over a thousand flyers. There were several renditions of the DMCA song, the last few really beginning to get quite tuneful, and a couple of performances of the DMCA playlet in Grosvenor Square. All in all, a very successful day. Julian -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F UK Free Dmitry Protest: http://uk.freesklyarov.org/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Aug 3 14:46:43 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] London protests attracted significant press attention In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87r8usstoc.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JTJM" == Julian T J Midgley writes: JTJM> See http://www.ntk.net/ for a typically amusing report of JTJM> this afternoon's protest at the US Embassy in London. Damn! I wish we could get one of those NTK writers over here to attend one of our protests in San Francisco! ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Aug 3 14:48:48 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WIRED Rave Awards In-Reply-To: <139812763.20010803142131@elcomsoft.com> References: <139812763.20010803142131@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: <87n15gstkv.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "AK" == Alex Katalov writes: >> Dmitry Sklyarov has been nominated in the Tech Renegade >> category in WIRED Magazine's 2001 WIRED Rave Awards. AK> Can anybody explain me, is this a "good" category: "Tech AK> Renegade"??? My English is too pure ;-) Well, it's kind of mixed. "Renegade" means "someone who breaks the rules," but it's intended with respect. Americans love renegades. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From david at lupercalia.net Fri Aug 3 15:12:05 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] brainstorming In-Reply-To: <20010803042439.A16699@navel.introspect>; from kmself@ix.netcom.com on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 04:24:17AM -0700 References: <20010803004050.I11840@ufies.org> <20010803042439.A16699@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <20010803181205.M21418@lupercalia.net> On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 04:24:17AM -0700, Karsten M. Self wrote: > As for the Christian/non-Christian groupings, don't be too quick to lump > me into one category or the other. While I'm not particularly > religious, I would suggest that the impact this work has with both > legislators and the public, particularly with a conservative > administration in Washington, shouldn't be underestimated. Personally, > I'd prefer finding a good Old Testament passage (note OT shares much > with Judaism and Islam), possibly Ecclesiases. > > Point being: the Congressman or Senator who has to go home, face the > folks, and answer why it is that they could spend five years in jail for > reading the bible, is going to have some heat to deal with. I'm not > suggesting this text for any other reason. You have a valid point. We need to show people how this technology could affect their lives, and the things that are important to them. Why not read from the Bible, the Constitution, and any other document that is cherished by many Americans? Why do we have to read just one book? > By all means pick additional texts, but this is a good one from a > political perspective. > > > The US Constitution is a better pick, but still doesn't really satisfy > > the original intent since we are trying to show off the fact that > > we're making fair use of a COPYRIGHTED work by reading to others from > > a copyrighted book we bought. Last time I checked, the US Constitution > > wasn't too copyrighted (or so I should hope...). > > There are a few different angles. One is to make clear to people that > DMCA 1201 has absolutely nothing to do with copyright and absolutely > everything to do with access control. Bible, Constitution, or other, > less loaded, traditional works, no longer copyrighted, would be a good > demonstration of this. Yes! > > Pick a recent children's book. Harry Potter or something similar which > > a large fraction of the population knows about, and which is still > > subject to copyright law. And then we can do the "50 people to commit > > a felony at high noon at __(place)__" pitch, too. I think this can be > > quite effective. > > This hits the other side, which is to show that the rights people don't > even think about -- they just *are* -- with traditional media, no longer > exist. But the message isn't quite so clear -- you're now dealing with > two concepts: fair use, and access. The first demonstration makes very > clear that there's something very wrong with the DMCA, regardless of the > wor. And many parents read to their children. Imagine how they will react to finding out that it is illegal to read Harry Potter to their five year old from an eBook? No more bedtime stories, Son. DMCA, you understand. But we have to protect the publishing industry. -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri Sklyarov! http://www.freesklyarov.org Washington DC Protests http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca In Georgia in 1829 the penalty for teaching a slave or freedman to read or write was set at $500 and jail at the discretion of the court. In the USA in 1998 the penalty for giving readers Fair Use capabilities illegally denied them was set at $500,000 and up to 5 years in prison. From crism at maden.org Fri Aug 3 15:15:27 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mueller confirmed Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010803151500.00a724b0@mail.maden.org> This morning's Washington Post reports a 90-0 vote: . -crism From david at lupercalia.net Fri Aug 3 15:18:37 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WIRED Rave Awards In-Reply-To: <87n15gstkv.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 02:48:26PM -0700 References: <139812763.20010803142131@elcomsoft.com> <87n15gstkv.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010803181837.N21418@lupercalia.net> On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 02:48:26PM -0700, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "AK" == Alex Katalov writes: > > >> Dmitry Sklyarov has been nominated in the Tech Renegade > >> category in WIRED Magazine's 2001 WIRED Rave Awards. > > AK> Can anybody explain me, is this a "good" category: "Tech > AK> Renegade"??? My English is too pure ;-) > > Well, it's kind of mixed. "Renegade" means "someone who breaks the > rules," but it's intended with respect. Americans love renegades. And it brings up images of cowboys, the whole American West mythos. -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri Sklyarov! http://www.freesklyarov.org Washington DC Protests http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca Corporations on Books -- We can't burn them so let's digitize them! -- Anonymous From ckirby at sfchronicle.com Fri Aug 3 15:23:06 2001 From: ckirby at sfchronicle.com (Carrie Kirby) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why is Sklyarov still in jail? Message-ID: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D45E8@sfc-exmail1> well, don't think they're afraid to lock up reporters. reporters and editors go to jail from time to time for contempt of court when they refuse to reveal the ids of anonymous sources. one of our guys, dan fost, came very close to doing this, and an editor from down on the peninsula actually went to jail last year, i believe. carrie From kmself at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 3 15:22:49 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] brainstorming In-Reply-To: <20010803181205.M21418@lupercalia.net>; from david@lupercalia.net on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 06:12:05PM -0400 References: <20010803004050.I11840@ufies.org> <20010803042439.A16699@navel.introspect> <20010803181205.M21418@lupercalia.net> Message-ID: <20010803152249.B29434@navel.introspect> on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 06:12:05PM -0400, David Merrill (david@lupercalia.net) wrote: > On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 04:24:17AM -0700, Karsten M. Self wrote: > > As for the Christian/non-Christian groupings, don't be too quick to lump > > me into one category or the other. While I'm not particularly > > religious, I would suggest that the impact this work has with both > > legislators and the public, particularly with a conservative > > administration in Washington, shouldn't be underestimated. Personally, > > I'd prefer finding a good Old Testament passage (note OT shares much > > with Judaism and Islam), possibly Ecclesiases. > > > > Point being: the Congressman or Senator who has to go home, face the > > folks, and answer why it is that they could spend five years in jail for > > reading the bible, is going to have some heat to deal with. I'm not > > suggesting this text for any other reason. > > You have a valid point. We need to show people how this technology > could affect their lives, and the things that are important to them. > Why not read from the Bible, the Constitution, and any other document > that is cherished by many Americans? Why do we have to read just one > book? That's more-or-less my point. I'm also of the mind that the appropriate way to approach diversity is union, not intersection: choose a set of works representative of different factions of the movement, even if there are differences of opinion, not a set for which there is no disagreement whatsoever. I'm fully for a representative sample: the Constitution, a religious text (again, the Bible is influential in the US), a currently popular children's work. [remainder elided in gross agreement] -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry!! Boycott Adobe!! Repeal the DMCA!! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010803/69bec3f9/attachment.pgp From sisgeek at yahoo.com Fri Aug 3 15:26:06 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WIRED Rave Awards In-Reply-To: <20010803181837.N21418@lupercalia.net> Message-ID: <20010803222606.25913.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> our beloved nation was founded by renegades and will be sustained and preserved by same!!! --- David Merrill wrote: > On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 02:48:26PM -0700, Klepht > wrote: > > >>>>> "AK" == Alex Katalov > writes: > > > > >> Dmitry Sklyarov has been nominated in the > Tech Renegade > > >> category in WIRED Magazine's 2001 WIRED > Rave Awards. > > > > AK> Can anybody explain me, is this a "good" > category: "Tech > > AK> Renegade"??? My English is too pure ;-) > > > > Well, it's kind of mixed. "Renegade" means > "someone who breaks the > > rules," but it's intended with respect. Americans > love renegades. > > And it brings up images of cowboys, the whole > American West mythos. > > -- > Dr. David C. Merrill > http://www.lupercalia.net > Linux Documentation Project > david@lupercalia.net > Collection Editor & Coordinator > http://www.linuxdoc.org > > Free Dmitri Sklyarov! http://www.freesklyarov.org > Washington DC Protests > http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca > > Corporations on Books -- We can't burn them so let's > digitize them! > -- Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Fri Aug 3 15:29:08 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] London protests attracted significant press attention In-Reply-To: <87r8usstoc.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010803222908.99962.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com> LOL; klepht --- Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "JTJM" == Julian T J Midgley > writes: > > JTJM> See http://www.ntk.net/ for a typically > amusing report of > JTJM> this afternoon's protest at the US Embassy > in London. > > Damn! I wish we could get one of those NTK writers > over here to attend > one of our protests in San Francisco! > > ~Klepht > > -- > klepht@eleutheria.org > http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ckirby at sfchronicle.com Fri Aug 3 15:31:56 2001 From: ckirby at sfchronicle.com (Carrie Kirby) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WIRED Rave Awards Message-ID: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D45E9@sfc-exmail1> does anyone have a print-quality photo of dmitry? i've seen his picture on the sf.freesklyarov web page ... anyone have a decent quality jpeg of that? carrie -----Original Message----- From: Klepht [mailto:klepht@eleutheria.org] Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 2:49 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] WIRED Rave Awards >>>>> "AK" == Alex Katalov writes: >> Dmitry Sklyarov has been nominated in the Tech Renegade >> category in WIRED Magazine's 2001 WIRED Rave Awards. AK> Can anybody explain me, is this a "good" category: "Tech AK> Renegade"??? My English is too pure ;-) Well, it's kind of mixed. "Renegade" means "someone who breaks the rules," but it's intended with respect. Americans love renegades. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From katie at eff.org Fri Aug 3 15:41:56 2001 From: katie at eff.org (Katie Lucas) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov bail hearing set - EFF calls for protests and attendance Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.1.20010803153350.01d20e30@pop3.spa.norton.antivirus> We have just learned that the bail hearing for Dmitry Sklyarov will be held on Monday, August 6th at 11am at the San Jose Federal Building, in front of either Magistrate Judge Trumbull or Infante. EFF is organizing both protests in front of the courthouse and a "dress-up day," which means that if you are planning on sitting in on the hearing, you should dress up (no t-shirts!) and show proper respect for the court. More information will follow. We are short-staffed this week, so volunteers are welcome! Katie Lucas Executive Assistant Electronic Frontier Foundation 415-436-9333 x104 www.eff.org From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Fri Aug 3 16:11:07 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] BBC (UK) news program Message-ID: <3B6B2F8B.FBAB2B26@sheffield.ac.uk> There is today's Newsnight BBC program. It contains a piece with our today's protest and some more about Dmitry's case. To see, click this http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/events/newsnight/newsid_248000/248099.stm and then "latest program" on the right. It is *.ram file. ~ 1 hour. First part is about Northern Ireland, you can skip this. The interesting part is somewhere after 10-20 minutes from the beginning. It lasts about 10 minutes. Features Robin Gross and Mark Bohannon (rare idiot). good luck anton From jono at microshaft.org Fri Aug 3 16:14:44 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Who rules? They rule. Message-ID: <20010803161444.B77929@networkcommand.com> http://theyrule.orgo.org/ If someone finds Adobe, let us know... From kmself at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 3 16:32:28 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Language: copy prevention Message-ID: <20010803163227.D27731@navel.introspect> I'm suggesting that the term used to describe anti-circumvention works under the DMCA be "copy prevention". This describes what they do, they provide (or attempt) a technical block on copying data. Other terms include - "digital rights management" (DRM): too vague and antisceptic. - "content protection": used by fair use opponents, sounds vague helpful. "Gee, I'm being protected from something". - "copy protection": coined by John Gilmore. More accurate, but still a bit of warm fuzz. "Copy prevention" states what these technolgies and laws are aimed at. That's my suggestion. Comments? -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry!! Boycott Adobe!! Repeal the DMCA!! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010803/055a87b0/attachment.pgp From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Aug 3 16:46:08 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Language: copy prevention In-Reply-To: <20010803163227.D27731@navel.introspect> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Karsten M. Self wrote: > I'm suggesting that the term used to describe anti-circumvention works > under the DMCA be "copy prevention". This describes what they do, they > provide (or attempt) a technical block on copying data. Copying is only one thing publishers are trying to stop. Reading an EBook under Linux is not copying, and playing an Australian DVD on an American DVD player is not copying. If we speak of copy-protection or copy-control, then we are inadvertently focussing on only one action, which happens to include piracy. Publishers would probably prefer this linguistic cropping of the problem. Could someone repost the URL for the present list of proposed counter-terminology? -S From marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca Fri Aug 3 17:04:11 2001 From: marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca (Austin Hook) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Language: copy prevention In-Reply-To: Message-ID: How about: "jail-baited media" Austin Hook On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Xcott Craver wrote: > On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Karsten M. Self wrote: > > > I'm suggesting that the term used to describe anti-circumvention works > > under the DMCA be "copy prevention". This describes what they do, they > > provide (or attempt) a technical block on copying data. > > Copying is only one thing publishers are trying to stop. > Reading an EBook under Linux is not copying, and playing an > Australian DVD on an American DVD player is not copying. > > If we speak of copy-protection or copy-control, then we > are inadvertently focussing on only one action, which > happens to include piracy. Publishers would probably > prefer this linguistic cropping of the problem. > > Could someone repost the URL for the present list of > proposed counter-terminology? > > -S > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Aug 3 17:02:00 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: free-sklyarov digest, Vol 1 #185 - 87 msgs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Aug 2001 huaiyu_zhu@yahoo.com wrote: > One thing that will become clear over the long run is that neither side > will win the argument by making claims on abstract rights. The truth is > that there is no feasible technology that can perfectly protect the > rights of everyone without infringing on the rights of others. We must be wary, however, of claims that "no technology is 100% secure," or that "oh, well of course someone will figure out how to crack the system, that's normal." The degree of crackability of these products was definitely not normal. Adobe et al were selling solutions that, many security experts fervently argue, is impossible both in theory and in practice. Adobe naturally will respond to their being cracked with the spin that all technology can be cracked, a generality that aims to draw attention away from the big, big qualitative difference between their products and other kinds of security products. > Parloff's point is that by making unprotected copies available, even if > most of these are for legitimate uses, Sklyarov created an opportunity > for illegal copying. I think the first counter-argument that springs to mind is that merely removing CD shrinkwrap has the same effect, of stripping away protections to get a "free and clear," pirateable copy. Thus merely creating an opportunity doesn't mean much. I already mentioned that on the list, but more recently it occurred to me that this analogy is tighter than one may realize, since all those layers of CD shrinkwrap are *intended* to be anti-theft protection, and you are forced to circumvent them. It probably isn't anti-piracy protection, thankfully. Thus, we have a good, concrete, accessible example of everyone having to crack anti-theft measures, tho they have no intention of committing a crime; and of how these measures are bound to get in the way of normal use. > Huaiyu Zhu -S From kmself at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 3 17:12:01 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Language: copy prevention In-Reply-To: ; from sacraver@EE.Princeton.EDU on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 07:46:08PM -0400 References: <20010803163227.D27731@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <20010803171201.O27731@navel.introspect> on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 07:46:08PM -0400, Xcott Craver (sacraver@EE.Princeton.EDU) wrote: > On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Karsten M. Self wrote: > > > I'm suggesting that the term used to describe anti-circumvention works > > under the DMCA be "copy prevention". This describes what they do, they > > provide (or attempt) a technical block on copying data. > > Copying is only one thing publishers are trying to stop. > Reading an EBook under Linux is not copying, and playing an > Australian DVD on an American DVD player is not copying. "Access prevention" was another term I'd considered. Seems more vague than copy prevention. What is 'access'? > If we speak of copy-protection or copy-control, then we > are inadvertently focussing on only one action, which > happens to include piracy. Publishers would probably > prefer this linguistic cropping of the problem. "Rights restriction"? I'd like to focus on a negative action in the term. > Could someone repost the URL for the present list of > proposed counter-terminology? List archives only, AFAIK. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry!! Boycott Adobe!! Repeal the DMCA!! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010803/7060fc1b/attachment.pgp From admin at seattle-chat.com Fri Aug 3 18:06:45 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WIRED Rave Awards In-Reply-To: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D45E9@sfc-exmail1> Message-ID: Carrie, here is a link to eff's site, with some higher resolution pictures. http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/Graphics/ -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Carrie Kirby Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 3:32 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] WIRED Rave Awards does anyone have a print-quality photo of dmitry? i've seen his picture on the sf.freesklyarov web page ... anyone have a decent quality jpeg of that? carrie -----Original Message----- From: Klepht [mailto:klepht@eleutheria.org] Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 2:49 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] WIRED Rave Awards >>>>> "AK" == Alex Katalov writes: >> Dmitry Sklyarov has been nominated in the Tech Renegade >> category in WIRED Magazine's 2001 WIRED Rave Awards. AK> Can anybody explain me, is this a "good" category: "Tech AK> Renegade"??? My English is too pure ;-) Well, it's kind of mixed. "Renegade" means "someone who breaks the rules," but it's intended with respect. Americans love renegades. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From mech at eff.org Fri Aug 3 19:29:42 2001 From: mech at eff.org (Stanton McCandlish) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] URGENT: coordinator needed for San Jose Mon. protest! Message-ID: If you are able & willing to be the independent on-the-ground coordinator for a rally/protest Mon., Aug. 6, 9:30am-noon+, and have a cell phone, please contact me directly ASAP. EFF alert will go out tonite, and needs a contact person to direct people toward for this event. Should be someone who knows downtown San Jose (e.g. you know how to get from "The Snake" (Qetzalcoalt statue) to the Fed. Bldg., etc.) For EFF alert draft, see http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010803_eff_sklyarov_alert.html The alert will be officially released in the next few hours, and posted here as well as distributed to EFF's press list, EFFector newsletter, etc. -- -- Stanton McCandlish mech@eff.org http://www.eff.org/~mech Technical Director/Webmaster Electronic Frontier Foundation voice: +1 415 436 9333 x105 fax: +1 415 436 9993 EFF, 454 Shotwell St. San Francisco CA 94110 USA From akatalov at elcomsoft.com Fri Aug 3 19:38:32 2001 From: akatalov at elcomsoft.com (Alex Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry calls Message-ID: <12119836227.20010803193832@elcomsoft.com> 10 minutes ago Dmitry calls to the lawyers and told that he is already in San Jose!!!! -- Best regards, Alex mailto:akatalov@elcomsoft.com From erc at pobox.com Fri Aug 3 19:39:58 2001 From: erc at pobox.com (Ed Carp) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why is Sklyarov still in jail? Message-ID: <200108040239.VAA12779@adsl-208-191-206-105.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net> Seth David Schoen (schoen@loyalty.org) writes: > > Why doesn't > > someone file a writ of habeas corpus in Federal court to get this man out of > > jail? > > "Too early" -- an experienced lawyer. Really? How's that? > Nobody feels that the government has violated legal standards for a > speedy and public trial yet. Committed a monstrous injustice, yes. > Made the U.S. look ridiculous and frightening to the rest of the > world, sure. Violated legal standards for procedural due process in > criminal cases, no. You're kidding, right? You're telling me that it's *normal* for a Federal prisoner to be held *weeks* without a bail hearing? Hs he even been arraigned yet? If I were arrested tomorrow, if I hadn't been arraigned and bail set by 9 AM Monday morning, rest assured that my attorney would be in court by noon. Why is it OK for the Federal courts to violate the Sixth and Eighth Amendments? > > Why is he being denied bail? > > The bail hearing hasn't happened yet. > > Sklyarov is being treated, say attorneys, no worse than your typical > Federal prisoner. Then this country is in serious trouble when a prisoner can be held for weeks without a bail hearing. If memory serves, even the Supreme Court has ruled on cases regarding how long one can be held without a hearing, and under what circumstances one can be held without bail. This is an absolute crock. On the other hand, if it can be shown that the Government delay is excessive, the charges against Sklyarov can be dismissed (Strunk v. US) - maybe that's what this whole thing is about... The FBI agents (who are named in the affidavit, by the way) should be brought up on criminal charges - 18 USC 1983 comes to mind... they *knew*, or should have known, that Sklyarov had committed no crime while in this country, and they have a duty to the law to see that the law is upheld. "Fidelity, Bravery, and Integrity", indeed. -- Ed Carp, N7EKG erc@pobox.com 214/986-5870 cell phone http://www.pobox.com/~erc I sometimes wonder if the American people deserve to be free - they seem so unwilling to fight to preserve the few freedoms they have left. From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Fri Aug 3 20:33:18 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The digital copyright tug o' war Message-ID: An article of peripheral interest to our topic . . . Scanners, CD burners and the Internet have transformed computers into the world's most efficient copy machines. As technology marches forward, what happens to the rights of those who create digital media? http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?124322:6384249 From prostoalex at hotbox.ru Fri Aug 3 20:57:28 2001 From: prostoalex at hotbox.ru (Alexander Moskalyuk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] uh-oh, here are more candidates to be put in jail Message-ID: <200108040357.f743vSs88261@www2.mailru.com> So when is FBI knocking on their door? http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991114 Flaw found in common encryption program A weakness has been discovered in a common system used to protect computer communications from eavesdroppers. The problem was found with the implementation of RC4, a program developed in 1987 which is frequently used to encode electronic messages into apparently meaningless data. Researchers from the Weizmann Institute in Israel and US company Cisco discovered the weakness and used it to capture messages sent over wireless computer networks using WEP (Wired Equivalent Privacy), a set of rules designed to ensure security. The research does not mean that all software using RC4 is vulnerable, but it undermines the reputation of the algorithm. "It is highly significant," says Ben Laurie, a UK computer engineer. "There is the general feeling that because RC4 is so fast, it sails close to the wind on security. There may be [other programs using RC4] that are affected." Reverse engineering The problem lies with the RC4's Key Scheduling Algorithm, which is derived from a secret key, and is used to convert messages into code. The researchers found that, under certain circumstances, this process is predictable and discovered that with WEP they could reverse the process, discover the secret key and decipher all messages. The weakness means that a message sent over some wireless networks can be uncovered in a matter of hours using a desktop computer. "After scanning several hundred thousand packets, the attacker can compute the secret key and thus decrypt all the ciphertexts," Shamir told New Scientist. Other experts say that the discovery is likely cause some wireless networks to be redesigned and may also encourage those designing software to use different cryptographic tools. The work will be presented at the Eighth Annual Workshop on Selected Areas in Cryptography in Toronto, Canada on 16 August. Best regards, Alexander Moskalyuk http://www.moskalyuk.com/ ICQ 44065387 From akatalov at elcomsoft.com Fri Aug 3 21:36:00 2001 From: akatalov at elcomsoft.com (Alex Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] uh-oh, here are more candidates to be put in jail In-Reply-To: <200108040357.f743vSs88261@www2.mailru.com> References: <200108040357.f743vSs88261@www2.mailru.com> Message-ID: <4026885804.20010803213600@elcomsoft.com> Dear Alexander, RC4 is used in many commercial software products like MS Word, Excel, Adobe PDF. I'm surprising why nobody mention our speech on February 2001 Win2K Security Conference, which covers weakness in MS Office, MS Outlook, WinZip, Acrobat PDF and other application. Full text of this presentation may be found here: http://www.blackhat.com/presentations/win-usa-01/Malyshev/BHWin01AMalyshev.ppt Btw - Microsoft knows about our researches and even mentioned them on their own website (Microsoft TechNet - this is something like a FAQ for tech support staff and advanced users): http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/columns/security/auas0301.asp ------- Ask Us About... Security, March 2001 Q: I'm creating a document using Microsoft Word that may potentially contain sensitive information. I note that Word has a password protection feature (under Tools/Protect Document). How strong is the security surrounding this feature? A: I get a lot of mail asking about the strength of passwords for Office documents. As was demonstrated in an analysis of the Microsoft Office password protection system presented by *ElcomSoft* at Black Hat, the password-protection features of these programs were not designed to be invincible. ------- Friday, August 03, 2001, 8:57:28 PM, you wrote: AM> So when is FBI knocking on their door? AM> http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991114 AM> Flaw found in common encryption program AM> A weakness has been discovered in a common system used AM> to protect computer communications from eavesdroppers. AM> The problem was found with the implementation of RC4, AM> a program developed in 1987 which is frequently used AM> to encode electronic messages into apparently AM> meaningless data. -- Best regards, Alex mailto:akatalov@elcomsoft.com From bobds at blorch.org Fri Aug 3 22:03:19 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The digital copyright tug o' war In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01080322031303.19789@bitworks> On Friday 03 August 2001 20:33, you wrote: > An article of peripheral interest to our topic . . . > > Scanners, CD burners and the Internet have transformed > computers into the world's most efficient copy machines. > As technology marches forward, what happens to the rights > of those who create digital media? > http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?124322:6384249 They have the inalienable right to publish in other formats using other media, if they're concerned about the nature of digital publishing. They do not, however, have any right to reshape public policy merely for short-term personal gain. Not every medium, nor every technology, is necessarily well-suited to every application or appropriate for every purpose. Digital formats and distribution are extremely well-suited for disseminating information quickly and widely--but less so for restricting and preventing its flow. How rational is it to choose an inherently public, easily-copied medium, and then demand that everyone pretend it's something other than what it is? And why is it in the best interests of society to arrange our legal system around a fundamentally irrational business decision? One of the reasons for HAVING copyrights and patents in the first place is to "promote the useful arts and sciences," and a key part of that is the mechanism for ensuring that copyrights and patents eventually expire and so become part of the pool of intellectual capital that drives and sustains future development. Granting perpetual and impenetrable proprietary control over intellectual works does not promote their dissemination and improvement, it stifles further development and deprives society of continued intellectual progress. Likewise, the social benefit of allowing creators to make money from their work is that in return, society gains the use of the new material or invention. When creators are allowed to impose excessively strict or arbitrary limits on how the protected material may be used, then society gains less benefit and has less reason to extend protection--the author gets all the money, but the society that makes that arrangement possible doesn't get the goods. "Fair use" isn't just a loophole for free riders. It's essential to the functioning of an intellectual property marketplace, and we dismember it at our peril. -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Fri Aug 3 22:23:07 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hague Convention Message-ID: Again, of peripheral interest (fair use rights) Posted on the Random Bits email list Random-bits@lists.essential.org http://lists.essential.org/mailman/listinfo/random-bits August 2, 2001. Statement of Consumer Project on Technology director James Love on the new Hague Convention draft. Please feel free to quote. "The new test goes too far to protect e-commerce firms and publishers while ignoring the persistent and well-articulated concerns of civil society. In the area of speech the new draft is a threat and there will be wide exposure to defamation under the Hague Convention. It is a recipe for the free software movement to be hounded and harassed around the world and it will force countries to take from their consumers their rights to use their own courts for a wide range of transactions. It poses a threat to scholars and teachers because it will erode fair use rights that many people currently enjoy in many countries." From moeller at scireview.de Fri Aug 3 22:37:56 2001 From: moeller at scireview.de (Erik Moeller) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Understanding WIPO Message-ID: <3B6BA654.16236.63DC88@localhost> I have posted a description of WIPO and how their treaties are implemented / enforced here: http://www.infoanarchy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/8/4/53534/20827 I think we have a good chance to get our voices heard on the next WIPO copyright meeting in November. What do you think? Regards, Erik -- Scientific Reviewer, Freelancer, Humanist -- Berlin/Germany Phone: +49-30-45491008 - Web: The Origins of Peace and Violence: "History is full of people who, out of fear or ignorance or the lust for power, have destroyed treasures of immeasurable value which truly belong to all of us. We must not let it happen again." -- Carl Sagan From tom at lemuria.org Sat Aug 4 03:02:45 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why is Sklyarov still in jail? In-Reply-To: <200108040239.VAA12779@adsl-208-191-206-105.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net>; from erc@pobox.com on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 09:39:58PM -0500 References: <200108040239.VAA12779@adsl-208-191-206-105.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net> Message-ID: <20010804120245.A444@lemuria.org> On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 09:39:58PM -0500, Ed Carp wrote: > Then this country is in serious trouble when a prisoner can be held for weeks > without a bail hearing. If memory serves, even the Supreme Court has ruled > on cases regarding how long one can be held without a hearing, and under what > circumstances one can be held without bail. This is an absolute crock. in most european countries, the time you can be held without seing a judge is set to 48 or 24 hours. please don't tell me there's nothing similiar in the CRA (Corporate Republic of America) -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From pmasloch at earthlink.net Sat Aug 4 04:53:10 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why is Sklyarov still in jail? In-Reply-To: <200108040239.VAA12779@adsl-208-191-206-105.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net> Message-ID: 2 weeks without bail is not very long. Kevin Mitnik was sitting in jail 4 1/2 years without bail or trail. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org Seth David Schoen (schoen@loyalty.org) writes: > > Why doesn't > > someone file a writ of habeas corpus in Federal court to get this man out of > > jail? > > "Too early" -- an experienced lawyer. Really? How's that? > Nobody feels that the government has violated legal standards for a > speedy and public trial yet. Committed a monstrous injustice, yes. > Made the U.S. look ridiculous and frightening to the rest of the > world, sure. Violated legal standards for procedural due process in > criminal cases, no. You're kidding, right? You're telling me that it's *normal* for a Federal prisoner to be held *weeks* without a bail hearing? Hs he even been arraigned yet? If I were arrested tomorrow, if I hadn't been arraigned and bail set by 9 AM Monday morning, rest assured that my attorney would be in court by noon. Why is it OK for the Federal courts to violate the Sixth and Eighth Amendments? > > Why is he being denied bail? > > The bail hearing hasn't happened yet. > > Sklyarov is being treated, say attorneys, no worse than your typical > Federal prisoner. Then this country is in serious trouble when a prisoner can be held for weeks without a bail hearing. If memory serves, even the Supreme Court has ruled on cases regarding how long one can be held without a hearing, and under what circumstances one can be held without bail. This is an absolute crock. On the other hand, if it can be shown that the Government delay is excessive, the charges against Sklyarov can be dismissed (Strunk v. US) - maybe that's what this whole thing is about... The FBI agents (who are named in the affidavit, by the way) should be brought up on criminal charges - 18 USC 1983 comes to mind... they *knew*, or should have known, that Sklyarov had committed no crime while in this country, and they have a duty to the law to see that the law is upheld. "Fidelity, Bravery, and Integrity", indeed. -- Ed Carp, N7EKG erc@pobox.com 214/986-5870 cell phone http://www.pobox.com/~erc I sometimes wonder if the American people deserve to be free - they seem so unwilling to fight to preserve the few freedoms they have left. _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From admin at seattle-chat.com Sat Aug 4 08:23:43 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why is Sklyarov still in jail? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I really don't understand this, since if you were arrested locally, they have 72 hours. Why do the feds have no restrictions? Maybe this is something else that needs to be gone after. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Peter Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 4:53 AM To: Ed Carp; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Why is Sklyarov still in jail? 2 weeks without bail is not very long. Kevin Mitnik was sitting in jail 4 1/2 years without bail or trail. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org Seth David Schoen (schoen@loyalty.org) writes: > > Why doesn't > > someone file a writ of habeas corpus in Federal court to get this man out of > > jail? > > "Too early" -- an experienced lawyer. Really? How's that? > Nobody feels that the government has violated legal standards for a > speedy and public trial yet. Committed a monstrous injustice, yes. > Made the U.S. look ridiculous and frightening to the rest of the > world, sure. Violated legal standards for procedural due process in > criminal cases, no. You're kidding, right? You're telling me that it's *normal* for a Federal prisoner to be held *weeks* without a bail hearing? Hs he even been arraigned yet? If I were arrested tomorrow, if I hadn't been arraigned and bail set by 9 AM Monday morning, rest assured that my attorney would be in court by noon. Why is it OK for the Federal courts to violate the Sixth and Eighth Amendments? > > Why is he being denied bail? > > The bail hearing hasn't happened yet. > > Sklyarov is being treated, say attorneys, no worse than your typical > Federal prisoner. Then this country is in serious trouble when a prisoner can be held for weeks without a bail hearing. If memory serves, even the Supreme Court has ruled on cases regarding how long one can be held without a hearing, and under what circumstances one can be held without bail. This is an absolute crock. On the other hand, if it can be shown that the Government delay is excessive, the charges against Sklyarov can be dismissed (Strunk v. US) - maybe that's what this whole thing is about... The FBI agents (who are named in the affidavit, by the way) should be brought up on criminal charges - 18 USC 1983 comes to mind... they *knew*, or should have known, that Sklyarov had committed no crime while in this country, and they have a duty to the law to see that the law is upheld. "Fidelity, Bravery, and Integrity", indeed. -- Ed Carp, N7EKG erc@pobox.com 214/986-5870 cell phone http://www.pobox.com/~erc I sometimes wonder if the American people deserve to be free - they seem so unwilling to fight to preserve the few freedoms they have left. _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Sat Aug 4 09:50:17 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why is Sklyarov still in jail? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: To the best of my understanding, he did have a hearing on Monday July 16 in Las Vegas; this was a "bail and extradition" hearing, and he was represented by Rene Valladares, the public defender in LV (?). At that hearing, he was denied bail and ordered extradited to CA. The time since then was the time spent waiting for extradition. He arrived to CA on Friday and has a bail hearing for Monday [Aug6], so that's not much of a delay either. I would suspect the extradition to a different state was what made the wait acceptable. On Sat, 4 Aug 2001, Charles Eakins wrote: > I really don't understand this, since if you were arrested locally, they > have 72 hours. Why do the feds have no restrictions? Maybe this is > something else that needs to be gone after. > > -----Original Message----- > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Peter > Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 4:53 AM > To: Ed Carp; free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Why is Sklyarov still in jail? > > > 2 weeks without bail is not very long. Kevin Mitnik was sitting in > jail 4 1/2 years without bail or trail. > Peter > > > Free Dmitry Sklyarov > Repeal the DMCA > ---------------------------------------- > http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca > http://www.freesklyarov.org > > > Seth David Schoen (schoen@loyalty.org) writes: > > > > Why doesn't > > > someone file a writ of habeas corpus in Federal court to get this > man out of > > > jail? > > > > "Too early" -- an experienced lawyer. > > Really? How's that? > > > Nobody feels that the government has violated legal standards for a > > speedy and public trial yet. Committed a monstrous injustice, yes. > > Made the U.S. look ridiculous and frightening to the rest of the > > world, sure. Violated legal standards for procedural due process in > > criminal cases, no. > > You're kidding, right? You're telling me that it's *normal* for a > Federal > prisoner to be held *weeks* without a bail hearing? Hs he even been > arraigned > yet? > > If I were arrested tomorrow, if I hadn't been arraigned and bail set > by 9 AM > Monday morning, rest assured that my attorney would be in court by > noon. Why > is it OK for the Federal courts to violate the Sixth and Eighth > Amendments? > > > > Why is he being denied bail? > > > > The bail hearing hasn't happened yet. > > > > Sklyarov is being treated, say attorneys, no worse than your typical > > Federal prisoner. > > Then this country is in serious trouble when a prisoner can be held > for weeks > without a bail hearing. If memory serves, even the Supreme Court has > ruled > on cases regarding how long one can be held without a hearing, and > under what > circumstances one can be held without bail. This is an absolute > crock. > > On the other hand, if it can be shown that the Government delay is > excessive, > the charges against Sklyarov can be dismissed (Strunk v. US) - maybe > that's > what this whole thing is about... > > The FBI agents (who are named in the affidavit, by the way) should be > brought > up on criminal charges - 18 USC 1983 comes to mind... they *knew*, or > should > have known, that Sklyarov had committed no crime while in this > country, and > they have a duty to the law to see that the law is upheld. "Fidelity, > Bravery, > and Integrity", indeed. > -- > Ed Carp, N7EKG erc@pobox.com 214/986-5870 cell phone > http://www.pobox.com/~erc > > I sometimes wonder if the American people deserve to be free - they > seem > so unwilling to fight to preserve the few freedoms they have left. > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- -alexf From gbroiles at well.com Sat Aug 4 09:58:16 2001 From: gbroiles at well.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why is Sklyarov still in jail? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010804094439.03a70870@pop3.norton.antivirus> Dmitry has already had a bail hearing, in front of a judge, with an attorney, in Las Vegas - Kevin Mitnick sat in jail because he and his lawyers waived his speedy trial rights. (not that I'm saying that was not the right choice, given the volume and complexity of evidence they needed to process, but *he waived his rights*, so it doesn't make sense to complain about denying them to him.) Not that I like what's happening, but let's not lose credibility by complaining about things which aren't true. The real problems here are - 1. The inappropriateness of the DMCA 2. The extraterritorial application of the DMCA 3. Arresting someone visiting the country briefly to present a paper to hold them for the first known prosecution under a new law (which aren't necessarily legal problems, but moral, public relations, or philosophical problems.) If you're pissed off about how the criminal trial system works - and that's a reasonable thing to be pissed about - it's probably not helpful to merge that opposition with opposition to Dmitry's individual case, at least not if your goal is to improve Dmitry's circumstances. Dmitry's getting the same (or better) treatment than the other prisoners within the federal system. At 08:23 AM 8/4/2001 -0700, Charles Eakins wrote: >I really don't understand this, since if you were arrested locally, they >have 72 hours. Why do the feds have no restrictions? Maybe this is >something else that needs to be gone after. > >-----Original Message----- >From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net >[mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Peter >Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 4:53 AM >To: Ed Carp; free-sklyarov@zork.net >Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Why is Sklyarov still in jail? > > >2 weeks without bail is not very long. Kevin Mitnik was sitting in >jail 4 1/2 years without bail or trail. >Peter > > >Free Dmitry Sklyarov >Repeal the DMCA >---------------------------------------- >http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca >http://www.freesklyarov.org > > >Seth David Schoen (schoen@loyalty.org) writes: > > > > Why doesn't > > > someone file a writ of habeas corpus in Federal court to get this >man out of > > > jail? > > > > "Too early" -- an experienced lawyer. > >Really? How's that? > > > Nobody feels that the government has violated legal standards for a > > speedy and public trial yet. Committed a monstrous injustice, yes. > > Made the U.S. look ridiculous and frightening to the rest of the > > world, sure. Violated legal standards for procedural due process in > > criminal cases, no. > >You're kidding, right? You're telling me that it's *normal* for a >Federal >prisoner to be held *weeks* without a bail hearing? Hs he even been >arraigned >yet? > >If I were arrested tomorrow, if I hadn't been arraigned and bail set >by 9 AM >Monday morning, rest assured that my attorney would be in court by >noon. Why >is it OK for the Federal courts to violate the Sixth and Eighth >Amendments? > > > > Why is he being denied bail? > > > > The bail hearing hasn't happened yet. > > > > Sklyarov is being treated, say attorneys, no worse than your typical > > Federal prisoner. > >Then this country is in serious trouble when a prisoner can be held >for weeks >without a bail hearing. If memory serves, even the Supreme Court has >ruled >on cases regarding how long one can be held without a hearing, and >under what >circumstances one can be held without bail. This is an absolute >crock. > >On the other hand, if it can be shown that the Government delay is >excessive, >the charges against Sklyarov can be dismissed (Strunk v. US) - maybe >that's >what this whole thing is about... > >The FBI agents (who are named in the affidavit, by the way) should be >brought >up on criminal charges - 18 USC 1983 comes to mind... they *knew*, or >should >have known, that Sklyarov had committed no crime while in this >country, and >they have a duty to the law to see that the law is upheld. "Fidelity, >Bravery, >and Integrity", indeed. >-- >Ed Carp, N7EKG erc@pobox.com 214/986-5870 cell phone >http://www.pobox.com/~erc > >I sometimes wonder if the American people deserve to be free - they >seem >so unwilling to fight to preserve the few freedoms they have left. > -- Greg Broiles gbroiles@well.com "We have found and closed the thing you watch us with." -- New Delhi street kids From mark at blorch.org Sat Aug 4 10:00:16 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: Long term thoughts [was: Sen. Hatch "commends" DOJ for Sklyarov arrest, IP prosecutions] In-Reply-To: <3B68246F.6904@indierecords.com> References: <3B68246F.6904@indierecords.com> Message-ID: <01080410001601.24047@bilbo.blorch.org> I never tried to say such an effort would be easy. Nor do I discount the "boy band" nonsense going on. *However, fact is that the corporate boobs don't have any real creativity. They might be able to hold on for years doing the cheap, quick 'n' dirty bands and such. But if you've watched what has happened to TV over the years as "narrow casting" has grown, the major networks have lost *tremendous amounts of audience. Their share was dropping below half when I was working in TV back in the late '80s. The music industry has been one of the big backers of DMCA type legislation because in their dim-witted, reptillian brains they can see something is wrong. Big bands now regularly spin off and create their *own companies. Now small bands are going direct over the 'Net. If delivery systems continue to develop, these middlemen types will go the way of the dinosaurs. I think they attacked Napster largely because they realized such systems could *replace them. And I think they're right. Now the publishing monsters are getting into the act, fearing for their corporate lives. Even though electronic books are pretty much a flop and the public is staying away in droves. Still, over the years and decades, this *is the direction the technology is heading. King has already broken with his publisher (as the big bands did with the music companies). My point has been that I think the ultimate solution is to build open, useful distribution systems for artists. To enable them to connect directly with their audience. Eventually, even the "boy band" and Britney types will see the economic logic. After all, you cut out the expense of the middlemen. You can sell at a much lower price yet make *more money because the margins are different. Also, the big advantage we'd have is that the media corporations are screwing people on both ends of the equation. Not *just the public, not *just the programmers, but *also the people producing the actual "content." I think there are pleanty of artists who would love to get out from under the corporate thumb. So it wouldn't be easy? Okay. Is anything worthwhile ever "easy?" And it would take years. But I'm thinking in terms of the next two to five decades. Besides, I'm just not a "nice guy." I don't just want to whack these corporations on the head once or twice, I want to *destroy them. Even if it does take twenty years or so. Mark On Wednesday 01 August 2001 08:46, Keith Handy wrote: > From: "Victor Piterbarg" > To: > Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 00:05:15 -0700 > Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: [NotDmcaLa] Long term thoughts [was: Sen. > Hatch "commends" DOJ for Sklyarov arrest, IP prosecutions] > > > It would be great if it was that easy! However, I don't think the artists > > you speak of are all that valuable to the corporations. Look at the > > BIGGEST bands of the recent times. Britney Spears, N'Synch, Backstreet > > Boys. These artists are manufactured by the record labels. These are the > > "artists" that make the most money FOR the corporations. And I think that > > if we approached Britney Spears with eloquent anti-DMCA arguments, the > > best we could hope for is a shiny smile or a giggle. > > True, but think of it this way: if you could at least raise awareness > among the minority of music fans who have some semblance of critical > judgement, you've just doubled our support base. Add in the same size > base of independent-minded readers of every genre, you've tripled it. > The point is, we may be a minority, but we're a smaller minority than > need be if we limit the voice to computer programmers. > > -Keith > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From mark at blorch.org Sat Aug 4 10:07:14 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The digital copyright tug o' war In-Reply-To: <01080322031303.19789@bitworks> References: <01080322031303.19789@bitworks> Message-ID: <01080410071403.24047@bilbo.blorch.org> And the founding fathers who CREATED copyright and patents were quite adamant over the idea that such monopolies *should expire. That the monopoly would be granted *only for a short time and *only so long as it was beneficial to society to do so. They did NOT seek to create a "property" style entitlement. This so called "intelectual property" isn't in line with the founders' thinking and is, in fact, a bastardization and corruption of their intent. Thomas Jefferson was so concerned over the potential for censorship inherent in government grants of monopolies over ideas that he wanted an amendment included in what we now know as the "Bill of Rights" that would limit all such grants of monopoly to a specific number of years with NO extensions. He was right. And too bad it wasn't done. Mark On Friday 03 August 2001 22:03, Bob Smart wrote (snipping for space): > One of the reasons for HAVING copyrights and patents in the first place is > to "promote the useful arts and sciences," and a key part of that is the > mechanism for ensuring that copyrights and patents eventually expire and so > become part of the pool of intellectual capital that drives and sustains > future development. Granting perpetual and impenetrable proprietary > control over intellectual works does not promote their dissemination and > improvement, it stifles further development and deprives society of > continued intellectual progress. > > Likewise, the social benefit of allowing creators to make money from their > work is that in return, society gains the use of the new material or > invention. When creators are allowed to impose excessively strict or > arbitrary limits on how the protected material may be used, then society > gains less benefit and has less reason to extend protection--the author > gets all the money, but the society that makes that arrangement possible > doesn't get the goods. > > "Fair use" isn't just a loophole for free riders. It's essential to the > functioning of an intellectual property marketplace, and we dismember it at > our peril. From mlc67 at columbia.edu Sat Aug 4 10:12:38 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why is Sklyarov still in jail? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010804094439.03a70870@pop3.norton.antivirus>; from gbroiles@well.com on Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 09:58:16AM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010804094439.03a70870@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20010804101237.B13165@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Anyone who is interested in working with criminal "justice" system activists, email me off list and I'll try to hook you up with a group in your local area. Note, though, Dmitry's case is certainly not an especially egregious example in this sense. The reason I'm interested in Dmitry's case is because of the DMCA and all its implications. If I were interested in reforming the justice system and similar, I would probably start elsewhere. I will not respond on-list to any further posts on this thread. mike On Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 09:58:16AM -0700, Greg Broiles wrote: > If you're pissed off about how the criminal trial system works - and > that's a reasonable thing to be pissed about - it's probably not > helpful to merge that opposition with opposition to Dmitry's > individual case, at least not if your goal is to improve Dmitry's > circumstances. Dmitry's getting the same (or better) treatment than > the other prisoners within the federal system. -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // current location: berkeley, ca, us // ph: +1 (646) 382-7220 // FREE DMITRY! See http://freesklyarov.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010804/2ec856ac/attachment.pgp From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sat Aug 4 10:25:10 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The digital copyright tug o' war In-Reply-To: <01080410071403.24047@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: >>>Thomas Jefferson was so concerned over the potential >>>for censorship inherent in government grants of monopolies >>>over ideas that he wanted an amendment included in what >>>we now know as the "Bill of Rights" that would limit all such >>>grants of monopoly to a specific number of years with NO extensions. Citations would be appreciated from anyone who knows where to find more information on this particular topic (Jefferson and monopolies). James S. Huggins From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sat Aug 4 10:27:28 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP's Judith Platt replies to Politech post, clarifies remarks Message-ID: from Declan McCullagh's politech email list -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 11:11 AM To: politech@politechbot.com Cc: jplatt@publishers.org; lisa_bowman@zdnet.com Subject: FC: AAP's Judith Platt replies to Politech post, clarifies remarks Response to: http://www.politechbot.com/p-02311.html ******** From: Judith Platt To: "'declan@well.com'" Subject: The ZD Net Story Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:40:19 -0400 Dear Declan: In case anyone out there is REALLY interested in the truth re the ZDNEt story on librarians and copyright, I was quoted completely out of context. The reporter totally misinterpreted my remarks, either through her own lack of understanding or a desire to ratchet up discord between publishers and librarians. My reference to "Ruby Ridge," while perhaps ill-advised, was used metaphorically to indicate an extremist position out of the mainstream--a very radical view that has been expressed in some quarters (although not by any librarians of my acquaintance) that all computer code is protected speech under the First Amendment and that no one--neither a publisher nor an author, nor anyone else-should be able to encrypt copyrighted material to protect it from unauthorized use and reproduction, and expect the encryption to be viewed as any other lock used to protect property. My reference to an "extreme position" HAD NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE DESIRE OR ABILITY OF LIBRARIANS TO MAKE INFORMATION FREELY AVAILABLE. What the reporter, Ms. Bowman, failed to include in her article were my numerous statements about the cooperative relationship between publishers (and their national trade association) and librarians. We totally value what librarians do and we are working together to come up with ways that will take full advantage of the new digital environment to make information available to the widest possible audience without sacrificing the legitimate copyright interests of authors and publishers. Judith Platt Director of Communications & Public Affairs Association of American Publishers Judith Platt Director of Communications & Freedom to Read Association of American Publishers 50 F Street, NW Washington, DC 20001 email: jplatt@publishers.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org Sat Aug 4 10:38:45 2001 From: free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org (Julian T. J. Midgley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] BBC (UK) news program In-Reply-To: <3B6B2F8B.FBAB2B26@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Aug 2001, Anton Chterenlikht wrote: > There is today's Newsnight BBC program. It contains a piece with our > today's protest and some more about Dmitry's case. To see, click this > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/events/newsnight/newsid_248000/248099.stm > > and then "latest program" on the right. It is *.ram file. ~ 1 hour. > First part is about Northern Ireland, you can skip this. The interesting > part is somewhere after 10-20 minutes from the beginning. It lasts about > 10 minutes. Features Robin Gross and Mark Bohannon (rare idiot). I've just been told by one of the chaps from Newsnight that the second slot in the programme typically gets about 1.3 million viewers. Also, apparently, there's a good chance the Newsnight piece will get rebroadcast on BBC World where the typical audience is closer to 100 million. Julian -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F UK Free Dmitry Protest: http://uk.freesklyarov.org/ From jono at microshaft.org Sat Aug 4 10:53:46 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [declan@well.com: FC: Sen. Torricelli's "anti-hacker" bill puts parents, kids in jail] Message-ID: <20010804105346.B84824@networkcommand.com> More open-ended laws... ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 11:20:15 -0400 From: Declan McCullagh To: politech@politechbot.com Subject: FC: Sen. Torricelli's "anti-hacker" bill puts parents, kids in jail User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.2i X-URL: http://www.mccullagh.org/ Precedence: bulk Reply-To: declan@well.com X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ X-Author: Declan McCullagh is at http://www.mccullagh.org/ X-News-Site: Cluebot is at http://www.cluebot.com/ http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45752,00.html Senator Targets School Hackers By Declan McCullagh (declan@wired.com) 6:48 a.m. Aug. 1, 2001 PDT WASHINGTON -- Sen. Robert Torricelli claims he wants to put hackers who disrupt school computers in prison. "Computer hackers who prey upon unsuspecting schools, striking fear in the hearts of entire communities with threats of violence, cannot go unpunished," the New Jersey Democrat said this week. But educators, programmers and civil libertarians say Torricelli's recently-introduced School Website Protection Act of 2001 does more than place wrongdoers behind bars. They say the bill is worded so vaguely it would turn commonplace activities into federal crimes to be investigated by the U.S. Secret Service. "I think the bill misses the mark," says Jim Dempsey, deputy director of the Center for Democracy and Technology. "It is written in an overly broad fashion. Sending one unsolicited e-mail affects a computer. If I send an e-mail to my student's teacher and I didn't have her permission, I violate the act." Dempsey is talking about the bill's sweeping language, which punishes activities that affect a computer rather than ones that damage it or successfully penetrate its security. Contrary to what the name of the bill implies, the measure covers any school computer system, not just websites, and could criminalize pranks such as sending mail from a friend's computer when they've left themselves logged in. Torricelli's measure says anyone who "knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally affects or impairs without authorization a computer of an elementary school or secondary school or institution of higher education" will to go federal prison for up to 10 years. [...] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- End forwarded message ----- From rms at privacyfoundation.org Sat Aug 4 10:52:10 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP's Judith Platt replies to Politech post, clarifies remarks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000d01c11d0e$3b8c90a0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Why is Ms. Platt shouting? IMHO, a pretty odd thing for a PR person to be doing. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net] On Behalf Of James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov) Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 1:27 PM To: Free Sklyarov List Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP's Judith Platt replies to Politech post, clarifies remarks from Declan McCullagh's politech email list -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 11:11 AM To: politech@politechbot.com Cc: jplatt@publishers.org; lisa_bowman@zdnet.com Subject: FC: AAP's Judith Platt replies to Politech post, clarifies remarks Response to: http://www.politechbot.com/p-02311.html ******** From: Judith Platt To: "'declan@well.com'" Subject: The ZD Net Story Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:40:19 -0400 Dear Declan: In case anyone out there is REALLY interested in the truth re the ZDNEt story on librarians and copyright, I was quoted completely out of context. The reporter totally misinterpreted my remarks, either through her own lack of understanding or a desire to ratchet up discord between publishers and librarians. My reference to "Ruby Ridge," while perhaps ill-advised, was used metaphorically to indicate an extremist position out of the mainstream--a very radical view that has been expressed in some quarters (although not by any librarians of my acquaintance) that all computer code is protected speech under the First Amendment and that no one--neither a publisher nor an author, nor anyone else-should be able to encrypt copyrighted material to protect it from unauthorized use and reproduction, and expect the encryption to be viewed as any other lock used to protect property. My reference to an "extreme position" HAD NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE DESIRE OR ABILITY OF LIBRARIANS TO MAKE INFORMATION FREELY AVAILABLE. What the reporter, Ms. Bowman, failed to include in her article were my numerous statements about the cooperative relationship between publishers (and their national trade association) and librarians. We totally value what librarians do and we are working together to come up with ways that will take full advantage of the new digital environment to make information available to the widest possible audience without sacrificing the legitimate copyright interests of authors and publishers. Judith Platt Director of Communications & Public Affairs Association of American Publishers Judith Platt Director of Communications & Freedom to Read Association of American Publishers 50 F Street, NW Washington, DC 20001 email: jplatt@publishers.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From mark at blorch.org Sat Aug 4 11:00:27 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The digital copyright tug o' war In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01080411002704.24047@bilbo.blorch.org> On Saturday 04 August 2001 10:25, James S. Huggins \(Free Sklyarov\) wrote: > >>>Thomas Jefferson was so concerned over the potential > >>>for censorship inherent in government grants of monopolies > >>>over ideas that he wanted an amendment included in what > >>>we now know as the "Bill of Rights" that would limit all such > >>>grants of monopoly to a specific number of years with NO extensions. > > Citations would be appreciated from anyone who knows where to find more > information on this particular topic (Jefferson and monopolies). > You could start with: http://www.msnbc.com/news/594462.asp An article by Siva Vaidhyanathan who has a book coming out titled _Copyrights and Copywrongs_. Mark From jono at microshaft.org Sat Aug 4 11:06:04 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The digital copyright tug o' war In-Reply-To: <01080411002704.24047@bilbo.blorch.org>; from mark@blorch.org on Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 11:00:27AM -0700 References: <01080411002704.24047@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <20010804110604.C84824@networkcommand.com> I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country.... corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed." -- U.S. President Abraham Lincoln, Nov. 21, 1864 On 04-Aug-2001, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: > On Saturday 04 August 2001 10:25, James S. Huggins \(Free Sklyarov\) wrote: > > >>>Thomas Jefferson was so concerned over the potential > > >>>for censorship inherent in government grants of monopolies > > >>>over ideas that he wanted an amendment included in what > > >>>we now know as the "Bill of Rights" that would limit all such > > >>>grants of monopoly to a specific number of years with NO extensions. > > > > Citations would be appreciated from anyone who knows where to find more > > information on this particular topic (Jefferson and monopolies). > > > > You could start with: > > http://www.msnbc.com/news/594462.asp > > An article by Siva Vaidhyanathan who has a book coming out titled _Copyrights > and Copywrongs_. > > Mark > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From bobds at blorch.org Sat Aug 4 11:22:52 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why is Sklyarov still in jail? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01080411225201.22428@bitworks> On Saturday 04 August 2001 08:23, you wrote: > I really don't understand this, since if you were arrested locally, they > have 72 hours. Why do the feds have no restrictions? Because they have nuclear weapons and they get to both make and interpret the rules. -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From alphageek at mediaone.net Sat Aug 4 11:24:33 2001 From: alphageek at mediaone.net (Eric C. Grimm) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] CHICAGO 2:00CST SATURDAY -- IP LAWYERS MEETING ON CRIMINAL ENFORCEMENT In-Reply-To: <20010804110604.C84824@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: In case anyone is in Chicago today and available from 2:00 to 5:00 CST, the IP Section of the American Bar Association is presenting a panel on "Intellectual Property" - related criminal enforcement and other "Extraordinary Remedies." It is at the Hyatt Regency (near the River) on Wacker. West Tower. Concourse Level. Gold Coast Room. Wired's Declan McCullagh is supposed to be in the same hotel at the same time participating in a different panel presentation. CNN's Roger Cossack should also be around as he presented this AM from 9 - 11:30. I'll have a few EFF bumper-stickers and a few 2600 "FordReallySucks.com" stickers to leave out on the back tables for people to pick up. I know it is short notice to put together any siginificant protest activity, but nevertheless there may be an opportunity to get the attention of at least a few people who practice in this field. Eric C. Grimm CyberBrief, PLC 320 South Main Street P.O. Box 7341 Ann Arbor, MI 48107-7341 734.332.4900 fax 734.332.4901 eric.grimm@CyberBrief.net From jaed at jaedworks.com Sat Aug 4 11:34:53 2001 From: jaed at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP's Judith Platt replies to Politech post, clarifies remarks In-Reply-To: <000d01c11d0e$3b8c90a0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> References: Message-ID: >From: Judith Platt >[...] >publishers and librarians. My reference to "Ruby Ridge," while perhaps >ill-advised, was used metaphorically to indicate an extremist position >out of the mainstream--a very radical view that has been expressed in >some quarters (although not by any librarians of my acquaintance) that >all computer code is protected speech under the First Amendment and that >no one--neither a publisher nor an author, nor anyone else-should be >able to encrypt copyrighted material to protect it from unauthorized use >and reproduction, and expect the encryption to be viewed as any other >lock used to protect property. So if I'm decoding this sentence correctly, Judith Platt (ironically styled "Director of Communications & Freedom to Read") is saying that these are two "very radical" and "extremist" positions, "out of the mainstream": 1) Source code is protected under the first amendment. 2) Your removing a lock that blocks your use of your own property should not be equated to picking a lock in order to steal someone else's property. Perhaps someone should advise the Supreme Court and the locksmithing industry to watch out for the arriving FBI sharpshooters. -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed@jaedworks.com http://www.jaedworks.com From csm at MoonGroup.com Sat Aug 4 11:43:46 2001 From: csm at MoonGroup.com (Chuck Mead) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The digital copyright tug o' war In-Reply-To: ; from FreeSklyarov@ZName.com on Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 12:25:10PM -0500 References: <01080410071403.24047@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <20010804144346.B28851@stealth> * James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov) (FreeSklyarov@ZName.com) wrote: > > > >>>Thomas Jefferson was so concerned over the potential > >>>for censorship inherent in government grants of monopolies > >>>over ideas that he wanted an amendment included in what > >>>we now know as the "Bill of Rights" that would limit all such > >>>grants of monopoly to a specific number of years with NO extensions. > > Citations would be appreciated from anyone who knows where to find more > information on this particular topic (Jefferson and monopolies). I don't claim it's very good but I recently wrote an angry piece about Howard Coble who is from my state and who sponsored the DMCA in the house... I included a very relevant quote from Thomas Jefferson at the beginning... it is here: http://www.moongroup.com/stories.php?story=01/07/30/5196770 -- Have U seen the dirty bird? | Pilfering Treasury property is http://www.moongroup.com | paticularly dangerous: big thieves are Kernel 2.4.7 - i686 cpu | ruthless in punishing little thieves. | -- Diogenes -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010804/c11ec694/attachment.pgp From pedro at tastytronic.net Sat Aug 4 11:55:47 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] CHICAGO 2:00CST SATURDAY -- IP LAWYERS MEETING ON CRIMINAL ENFORCEMENT In-Reply-To: ; from alphageek@mediaone.net on Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 02:24:33PM -0400 References: <20010804110604.C84824@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010804135547.H4204@tastytronic.net> > In case anyone is in Chicago today and available from 2:00 to 5:00 CST, the > IP Section of the American Bar Association is presenting a panel on > "Intellectual Property" - related criminal enforcement and other > "Extraordinary Remedies." Grr. We missed each other on this one. THe Chicago Group is planning on doing leafletting tomorrow afternoon. WHere would be the best place to get a lot of lawyerly traffic? Peter From mw at themail.com Sat Aug 4 12:03:34 2001 From: mw at themail.com (mw@themail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Phoenix protest today/City Cops and Libraries Message-ID: <200108041503173.SM00459@mail.TheMail.com> We had a GREAT turnout today! we handed out a lot of flyers and spoke with people. The library was a prime place for protesting/flyer distro. Because we contacted the local p.d. Det. Davis (who handles city p.r. stuff came down to make sure noone bothered us) One guy complained about us, said we were loitering: Detective Davis replied: They have a right to be here... This is the library, why don't you go inside and read about your Constitutional rights. ahahaha It was great! __________________________________________________________________ TheMail.com - Full featured premium email you can count on. Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sat Aug 4 13:14:42 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP's Judith Platt replies to Politech post, clarifies remarks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >From: Judith Platt >[...] >and that >no one--neither a publisher nor an author, nor anyone else-should be >able to encrypt copyrighted material to protect it from unauthorized use >and reproduction, and expect the encryption to be viewed as any other >lock used to protect property. But it seems to me, that the DMCA does not enable you to encrypt to protect from unauthorized use and reproduction. Rather it enables you, by encryption, to create new classes of unauthorized use and reproduction. That is, uses and reproduction that would be permitted and legal if not encrypted are not legal if encrypted. James S. Huggins From akatalov at elcomsoft.com Sat Aug 4 15:28:11 2001 From: akatalov at elcomsoft.com (Alex Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry in San Jose Message-ID: <1995751213.20010804152811@elcomsoft.com> Dear All, Today at 10.30-11.00 A.M. I was in San Jose jail and talk with Dmitry. He is really OK and he ask me to thank you all for your help and support!!! -- Best regards, Alex mailto:akatalov@elcomsoft.com From jono at microshaft.org Sat Aug 4 15:35:33 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] MS Surveillance devices Message-ID: <20010804153533.E84824@networkcommand.com> Found some interesting things on the M$ website regarding the AAP, our friend Patricia Schroeder and all of them watching you. http://www.microsoft.com/ebooks/das/antipiracy.asp Microsoft is proud to work with the AAP to ensure that consumers are educated on the value of owning eBooks. We are sponsoring an educational Web site to inform the public of the value of copyright and the costs of piracy. We are also helping to deploy *powerful surveillance services* that can identify illegal distribution of Microsoft? Reader eBooks across the Internet, and report findings to publishers. http://www.microsoft.com/ebooks/das/antipiracy.asp Anyone have more info on this? From wendy at seltzer.com Sat Aug 4 15:34:25 2001 From: wendy at seltzer.com (Wendy Seltzer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NINCH Copyright Town Meeting in NYC (fwd) [Sept. 24] Message-ID: This just came across the CNI-copyright list -- it might be an opportunity for some public discussion of the problems with anticircumvention. Jaszi has been among those attempting to maintain reason in the updating of copyright law. --Wendy ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:59:51 -0400 From: Jennifer Vinopal Reply-To: cni-copyright@cni.org To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: NINCH Copyright Town Meeting in NYC NINCH Copyright Town Meeting: INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AND MULTIMEDIA IN THE DIGITAL AGE September 24, 2001 The New York Public Library Celeste Bartos Forum Fifth Avenue & 42nd Street 8:30 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. * This all day meeting brings together national experts in the field and practitioners working in a variety of settings to examine the practical implications of Intellectual Property issues. * Two keynote speakers, Professor Peter Jaszi (Washington College of Law, American University) and Linda Tadic (Manager of the Digital Library, Home Box Office) will explore a number of themes related to non-profit cultural institutions as Intellectual Property users and owners. Each will moderate a panel to hear additional reports from six speakers. * Q&A and an Open Forum are scheduled to allow time for audience participation in addressing broad issues and specific problems. * Seating is limited and early registration is advised. * Please see www.nypl.org/copyright for a fuller description, speaker biographies, and a registration form. * Sponsored by NINCH (National Initiative for a Networked Cultural Heritage) as part of its year-long Copyright Town Meetings, The Frick Museum, The New York Public Library, New York University Libraries and New York University Information Technology Services. ========================================================== Jennifer Vinopal / jennifer.vinopal@nyu.edu ~ Librarian for French & Italian Language and Literature ~ Coordinator, Studio for Digital Projects and Research http://www.nyu.edu/studio/ Bobst Library, New York University v: 212.998.2522 f: 212.995.4583 ========================================================== From jono at microshaft.org Sat Aug 4 15:49:01 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] More eBook info and FAQs Message-ID: <20010804154901.F84824@networkcommand.com> http://stores.econtentseller.com/ebookseller/faq.asp#100 When will my ability to read my eBook expire? Unless otherwise stated, your eContentSeller eBook does not expire. I can't forward my eBook from one computer to another. Why? You will only be able to read your eBook on the computer to which the file was purchased on. For security reasons, we cannot allow files to be transmitted from one computer to another. If you would like to use an eBook on multiple computers or eBook devices you will need to purchase an additional copy for those computers as well. http://stores.econtentseller.com/ebookseller/faq.asp#100 There is more info here: http://www.microsoft.com/ebooks/das/default.asp From chess at ncu2.net Sat Aug 4 16:55:36 2001 From: chess at ncu2.net (Bill Chess) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Is sklyarov possibly being held hostage for the release of John Tobin? Message-ID: <000d01c11d40$f79f28c0$0601a8c0@p400> I sent the following message before I was registered and so it probably didn't get posted. Please forgive if it is a duplicate. Could it be that sklyarov is actually being held hostage for the release of the American John Tobin, held by Russian athorities? If so, maybe when Tobin gets back to the States- suddenly they will find that they do not have a case against Sklyarov? Or maybe he is hostage against some other American the Russians are retaining? Quote: ROSSOSH, Russia, Aug. 3 - American Fulbright scholar John Tobin was released Friday from a Russian prison after serving half of a one-year drug sentence, ending a high-profile case that had strained U.S.-Russia relations. Throughout his trial and imprisonment, the Connecticut native maintained that the charges against him stemmed from an attempt by the Russian intelligence services to recruit him as a spy. (It will be more than a week before Tobin will actually leave Russia) From mark at blorch.org Sat Aug 4 17:21:14 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: <200108012123.f71LN4Z02438@atlanta.pop3now.com> References: <200108012123.f71LN4Z02438@atlanta.pop3now.com> Message-ID: <01080417211400.18843@bilbo.blorch.org> On Wednesday 01 August 2001 14:23, douglay@relicorp.com wrote: > Anyone interested a quick puke should click here: > > http://www.inside.com/product/product.asp?entity=&pf_ID=E8EECFA3-CBD1- > 447E-952C-CC16283D266C > > If it wasn't clear before, this article should make it crystal- > clear: > > The publishing industry, and its allies in the music and film > industries, cannot tolerate the free exchange of digital information > across the Internet, and are willing to go to any lengths whatsoever > to see that the free exchange of digital information is squelched. > > Anyone for a march on the AAP offices during Usenix? These people > have basically declared war on programmers. > > -Doug Not just programmers but on the Republic itself. The more I read what the founding fathers *meant with copyright and about their concerns about monopolies granted by the state, I'm moving to the position that people such as Parloff are traitors to the Republic. And I'm not just throwing words. I *mean it. The free flow of ideas is essential to maintaining a democracy. Ours is in enough trouble with a public that is becoming increasingly less educated and informed. But to directly assault the limitations the founders meant on monopolies on information is to betray what this nation allegeds to be. "Intellectual property" is, I now think, treason. Mark From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Sat Aug 4 17:41:36 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NINCH Copyright Town Meeting in NYC (fwd) [Sept. 24] References: Message-ID: <3B6C9640.E41377B3@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Note for the NY contingent, demonstrating Mondays in front of the NY Public Library: This meeting is on a Monday (2 months way, but . . .). Seth Johnson Wendy Seltzer wrote: > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:59:51 -0400 > From: Jennifer Vinopal > > NINCH Copyright Town Meeting: > > INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AND MULTIMEDIA IN THE DIGITAL AGE > > September 24, 2001 > The New York Public Library > Celeste Bartos Forum > Fifth Avenue & 42nd Street > > 8:30 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. > > * This all day meeting brings together national experts in the field and > practitioners working in a variety of settings to examine the practical > implications of Intellectual Property issues. From jono at microshaft.org Sat Aug 4 17:45:39 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: <01080417211400.18843@bilbo.blorch.org>; from mark@blorch.org on Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 05:21:14PM -0700 References: <200108012123.f71LN4Z02438@atlanta.pop3now.com> <01080417211400.18843@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <20010804174539.J84824@networkcommand.com> > > > > Anyone for a march on the AAP offices during Usenix? These people > > have basically declared war on programmers. > > > > -Doug > > Not just programmers but on the Republic itself. The more I read what the > founding fathers *meant with copyright and about their concerns about > monopolies granted by the state, I'm moving to the position that people such > as Parloff are traitors to the Republic. > > And I'm not just throwing words. I *mean it. > > The free flow of ideas is essential to maintaining a democracy. Ours is in > enough trouble with a public that is becoming increasingly less educated and > informed. But to directly assault the limitations the founders meant on > monopolies on information is to betray what this nation allegeds to be. > > "Intellectual property" is, I now think, treason. > Also, bear in mind the DMCA came from a treaty with the WIPO. I think someone mentioned this, but just to toss it out again, doesn't this treaty overrule our national laws. Meaning, how much effect would our Supreme Court have over the WIPO or laws coming down from them? It seems like we are also losing our "Checks and Balances." From mark at blorch.org Sat Aug 4 17:42:11 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: <20010804174031.I84824@networkcommand.com> References: <200108012123.f71LN4Z02438@atlanta.pop3now.com> <01080417211400.18843@bilbo.blorch.org> <20010804174031.I84824@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <01080417421101.18843@bilbo.blorch.org> On Saturday 04 August 2001 17:40, Jon O . wrote: > On 04-Aug-2001, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: > > On Wednesday 01 August 2001 14:23, douglay@relicorp.com wrote: > > > Anyone interested a quick puke should click here: > > > > > > http://www.inside.com/product/product.asp?entity=&pf_ID=E8EECFA3-CBD1- > > > 447E-952C-CC16283D266C > > > > > > If it wasn't clear before, this article should make it crystal- > > > clear: > > > > > > The publishing industry, and its allies in the music and film > > > industries, cannot tolerate the free exchange of digital information > > > across the Internet, and are willing to go to any lengths whatsoever > > > to see that the free exchange of digital information is squelched. > > > > > > Anyone for a march on the AAP offices during Usenix? These people > > > have basically declared war on programmers. > > > > > > -Doug > > > > Not just programmers but on the Republic itself. The more I read what the > > founding fathers *meant with copyright and about their concerns about > > monopolies granted by the state, I'm moving to the position that people > > such as Parloff are traitors to the Republic. > > > > And I'm not just throwing words. I *mean it. > > > > The free flow of ideas is essential to maintaining a democracy. Ours is > > in enough trouble with a public that is becoming increasingly less > > educated and informed. But to directly assault the limitations the > > founders meant on monopolies on information is to betray what this nation > > allegeds to be. > > > > "Intellectual property" is, I now think, treason. > > Yes, I think you are right for the most part. There is a certain amount of > need for it as I'm sure you have read to induce the continued production > of it. However, at this point in time, everything we do is usually created > under the employ of a company and therefore becomes their property. > > If you end up writing anything I'd be happy to publish it on > www.anti-dmca.org and make cure people read it. > > Once you start seeing the overall plan with Windows XP and ebooks > and monitoring it starts freaking you out... It's a blatant attempt by corporations to return us to fuedalism. And, in fact, what I'm reading about the history of copyright is that it was a major tool by monarchs to CENSOR. Our Constitution says a "limited time" for a reason. The free flow of information is essential to a democracy. But democracy isn't what corporations want. Not anymore. Jefferson himself rejected the concept of "property" in regards to ideas. "Intellectual property" is wholly un-American and detrimental to the Republic. Mark From rknop at pobox.com Sat Aug 4 17:52:26 2001 From: rknop at pobox.com (Robert Knop) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: <20010804174539.J84824@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: > Also, bear in mind the DMCA came from a treaty with the WIPO. I think someone > mentioned this, but just to toss it out again, doesn't this treaty overrule > our national laws. Meaning, how much effect would our Supreme Court have > over the WIPO or laws coming down from them? It seems like we are also losing > our "Checks and Balances." The USA has a president who's shown himself capable of backing out of treaties he doesn't believe to be in the USA's best interests. If only he could be shown that the USA's best interests were diametrically opposed to the wishes of the corporations seeing a new feudalism, I'm sure that WIPO could very quickly turn into a paper tiger. Alas, it doesn't sound like anybody in the US government other than Boucher has a clue that there might be something rotten in the States of America. -Rob From jaed at jaedworks.com Sat Aug 4 18:03:50 2001 From: jaed at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: <20010804174539.J84824@networkcommand.com> References: <01080417211400.18843@bilbo.blorch.org>; from mark@blorch.org on Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 05:21:14PM -0700 <200108012123.f71LN4Z02438@atlanta.pop3now.com> <01080417211400.18843@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: At 5:45 PM -0700 8/4/2001, Jon O . wrote: >Also, bear in mind the DMCA came from a treaty with the WIPO. I think someone >mentioned this, but just to toss it out again, doesn't this treaty overrule >our national laws. No. In US law, the Constitution has supremacy over treaties (more precisely, over the enabling law that implements a treaty). Treaty agreements do not override the Constitution. Of course, there's always the question of how the SC will interpret the intersection of the Constitution and a treaty, but it's perfectly possible, in law, for the SC to rule the DMCA or a section of it unconstitutional, treaty or no treaty. Reconciling the treaty with the Constitution is Congress's problem. -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed@jaedworks.com http://www.jaedworks.com From jono at microshaft.org Sat Aug 4 18:10:07 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: <01080417421101.18843@bilbo.blorch.org>; from mark@blorch.org on Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 05:42:11PM -0700 References: <200108012123.f71LN4Z02438@atlanta.pop3now.com> <01080417211400.18843@bilbo.blorch.org> <20010804174031.I84824@networkcommand.com> <01080417421101.18843@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <20010804181007.K84824@networkcommand.com> Mark: You might want to read this and see how they have twisted things: http://www.loc.gov/copyright/1201/comments/reply/059siia.pdf From jono at microshaft.org Sat Aug 4 18:47:02 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Understanding WIPO In-Reply-To: <3B6BA654.16236.63DC88@localhost>; from moeller@scireview.de on Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 07:37:56AM +0200 References: <3B6BA654.16236.63DC88@localhost> Message-ID: <20010804184702.M84824@networkcommand.com> Erik: I just read your WIPO paper. Thanks, it's very helpful. You suggest the following actions: o We need to find out who the delegates for our respective governments are and talk to them directly about consumer rights. o There should be a well-organized free-speech-protest during the next WIPO meeting. o There should be independent observers during the meeting, and the most important civil liberties organizations should apply for participation and/or submit papers. These are good suggestions. Anyone have more information or suggestions on how do we put them into action? We all know that Dmitry is being unjustly held by a bad law. Let's also not forget to fix the law so this doesn't happen again. Thanks, Jon On 04-Aug-2001, Erik Moeller wrote: > I have posted a description of WIPO and how their treaties are > implemented / enforced here: > > http://www.infoanarchy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/8/4/53534/20827 > > I think we have a good chance to get our voices heard on the next > WIPO copyright meeting in November. What do you think? > > Regards, > Erik > > -- > Scientific Reviewer, Freelancer, Humanist -- Berlin/Germany > Phone: +49-30-45491008 - Web: > The Origins of Peace and Violence: > > "History is full of people who, out of fear or ignorance or the lust > for power, have destroyed treasures of immeasurable value which truly > belong to all of us. We must not let it happen again." -- Carl Sagan > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From mark at blorch.org Sat Aug 4 18:53:00 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: <20010804181007.K84824@networkcommand.com> References: <200108012123.f71LN4Z02438@atlanta.pop3now.com> <01080417421101.18843@bilbo.blorch.org> <20010804181007.K84824@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <01080418525104.18843@bilbo.blorch.org> On Saturday 04 August 2001 18:10, Jon O . wrote: > Mark: > > You might want to read this and see how they have twisted things: > http://www.loc.gov/copyright/1201/comments/reply/059siia.pdf > > From here: > http://www.loc.gov/copyright/1201/comments/reply/ > > > Check out this bogus language kungfo: > > "Fair use is an affirmative defense. As such, it is a privilege, not a > right." And that is a LIE. It would be better to ABOLISH copyright entirely than to submit to the yoke of the corporations. Jefferson expressed misgivings over having "copyright" at all. Now I know why. Mark From mark at blorch.org Sat Aug 4 19:01:00 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: References: <01080417211400.18843@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <01080419010006.18843@bilbo.blorch.org> On Saturday 04 August 2001 18:03, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: > At 5:45 PM -0700 8/4/2001, Jon O . wrote: > >Also, bear in mind the DMCA came from a treaty with the WIPO. I think > > someone mentioned this, but just to toss it out again, doesn't this > > treaty overrule our national laws. > > No. In US law, the Constitution has supremacy over treaties (more > precisely, over the enabling law that implements a treaty). Treaty > agreements do not override the Constitution. > But treaties *do become the "supreme law of the land" and can trump other laws. They aren't to be entered into lightly. Given the Founders position on copyright/patents as "property," we shouldn't be in WIPO at *all. "IP" is a subversion of democracy. Whatever treaty we have under WIPO should be immediately abrogated. The problem in that treaties may not "trump" the Constitution is that it's up to SCOTUS to decide whether the basic rights in the Constitution are being violated and they can decide the treaty doesn't *really violate the Constution. There are always legalistic ways to dance around that. As the DMCA itself does by claiming that "fair use" still exists while outlawing the technology to enable fair use. So they can claim you still *have the right even though you'll be jailed for exercizing it. Mark From nbhs2 at i-2000.com Sat Aug 4 19:18:22 2001 From: nbhs2 at i-2000.com (Michael Scottaline) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: <20010804174539.J84824@networkcommand.com> References: <200108012123.f71LN4Z02438@atlanta.pop3now.com> <01080417211400.18843@bilbo.blorch.org> <20010804174539.J84824@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010804221822.4a112425.nbhs2@i-2000.com> On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 17:45:39 -0700 "Jon O ." insightfully noted: JO> Also, bear in mind the DMCA came from a treaty with the WIPO. I think JO> someone JO> mentioned this, but just to toss it out again, doesn't this treaty JO> overrule JO> our national laws. Meaning, how much effect would our Supreme Court JO> have JO> over the WIPO or laws coming down from them? It seems like we are also JO> losing JO> our "Checks and Balances." ============================ We are a soverieign nation. In a sense, we recognize NO authority higher than ourselves. We may be bound by _national honor_ to repsect treaties, but treaties do not, as far as I know, over rule national law. Mike -- "Always remember, I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me." --Winston Churchill From jono at microshaft.org Sat Aug 4 19:16:45 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: <01080419010006.18843@bilbo.blorch.org>; from mark@blorch.org on Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 07:01:00PM -0700 References: <01080417211400.18843@bilbo.blorch.org> <01080419010006.18843@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <20010804191645.N84824@networkcommand.com> On 04-Aug-2001, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: > On Saturday 04 August 2001 18:03, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: > > At 5:45 PM -0700 8/4/2001, Jon O . wrote: > > >Also, bear in mind the DMCA came from a treaty with the WIPO. I think > > > someone mentioned this, but just to toss it out again, doesn't this > > > treaty overrule our national laws. > > > > No. In US law, the Constitution has supremacy over treaties (more > > precisely, over the enabling law that implements a treaty). Treaty > > agreements do not override the Constitution. > > > > But treaties *do become the "supreme law of the land" and can trump other > laws. They aren't to be entered into lightly. > > Given the Founders position on copyright/patents as "property," we shouldn't > be in WIPO at *all. "IP" is a subversion of democracy. Whatever treaty we > have under WIPO should be immediately abrogated. > > The problem in that treaties may not "trump" the Constitution is that it's up > to SCOTUS to decide whether the basic rights in the Constitution are being > violated and they can decide the treaty doesn't *really violate the > Constution. There are always legalistic ways to dance around that. As the > DMCA itself does by claiming that "fair use" still exists while outlawing the > technology to enable fair use. > > So they can claim you still *have the right even though you'll be jailed for > exercizing it. > Check out this comment on InfoAnarchy: http://www.infoanarchy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/8/4/53534/20827 haque convention: the key point being that this renders WIPO somewhat moot, as all signatories would be agreeing to enforce one another's laws, without need for seperate treaties for any particular issue. Sklyarov's case is a foreshadowing of a nightmare scenario in which we can become guilty of laws passed in any country, without ever leaving home, and have them be enforced by our own governements. Not only would this effectively end national soveriegnty, but any sort of pretense at democratic representation as well. From kmself at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 4 19:14:10 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: <20010804174539.J84824@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 05:45:39PM -0700 References: <200108012123.f71LN4Z02438@atlanta.pop3now.com> <01080417211400.18843@bilbo.blorch.org> <20010804174539.J84824@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010804191409.A25351@navel.introspect> on Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 05:45:39PM -0700, Jon O . (jono@microshaft.org) wrote: > > > > > > Anyone for a march on the AAP offices during Usenix? These people > > > have basically declared war on programmers. > > > > > > -Doug > > > > Not just programmers but on the Republic itself. The more I read > > what the founding fathers *meant with copyright and about their > > concerns about monopolies granted by the state, I'm moving to the > > position that people such as Parloff are traitors to the Republic. > > > > And I'm not just throwing words. I *mean it. > > > > The free flow of ideas is essential to maintaining a democracy. Ours > > is in enough trouble with a public that is becoming increasingly > > less educated and informed. But to directly assault the limitations > > the founders meant on monopolies on information is to betray what > > this nation allegeds to be. > > > > "Intellectual property" is, I now think, treason. > > > > Also, bear in mind the DMCA came from a treaty with the WIPO. I think > someone mentioned this, but just to toss it out again, doesn't this > treaty overrule our national laws. Meaning, how much effect would our > Supreme Court have over the WIPO or laws coming down from them? It > seems like we are also losing our "Checks and Balances." As noted, treaties are subject to, not superior to, the Constitution. The treaty as presented doesn't call for the fascistic measures imposed in the US DMCA. It does call for effective legal penalties over circumvention of Article 11: Obligations concerning Technological Measures Contracting Parties shall provide adequate legal protection and effective legal remedies against the circumvention of effective technological measures that are used by authors in connection with the exercise of their rights under this Treaty or the Berne Convention and that restrict acts, in respect of their works, which are not authorized by the authors concerned or permitted by law. http://www.wipo.org/eng/diplconf/distrib/treaty01.htm Note "in respect of THEIR works, which are not authorized BY THE AUTHORS concerned OR PERMITTED BY LAW" (emphasis added). It would seem to me that the DMCA grossly oversteps the WIPO guidelines themselves by: - Proscriptively prohibiting actions otherwise allowed by law. - Prohibiting actions regardless of whether they are applied to works addressed under the treaty. "Their works" would tend to exclude works already under, say, public domain, or otherwise not covered by copyright. - Seeking authorization from publishers and technology licensees, rather than authors. - Creating a new class of prohibitions against actions unrelated to copyright violations alltogether. As one-sided as WIPO is, the DMCA makes a bad thing far worse. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry!! Boycott Adobe!! Repeal the DMCA!! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010804/95d70e1a/attachment.pgp From kmself at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 4 19:23:47 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: <01080419010006.18843@bilbo.blorch.org>; from mark@blorch.org on Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 07:01:00PM -0700 References: <01080417211400.18843@bilbo.blorch.org> <01080419010006.18843@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <20010804192347.B25351@navel.introspect> on Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 07:01:00PM -0700, Mark K. Bilbo (mark@blorch.org) wrote: > On Saturday 04 August 2001 18:03, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: > > At 5:45 PM -0700 8/4/2001, Jon O . wrote: > The problem in that treaties may not "trump" the Constitution is that > it's up to SCOTUS to decide whether the basic rights in the > Constitution are being violated and they can decide the treaty doesn't > *really violate the Constution. There are always legalistic ways to > dance around that. As the DMCA itself does by claiming that "fair use" > still exists while outlawing the technology to enable fair use. In previous cases where arguments have been made that one portion of copyright trumped fair use, the other portion has generally fallen. The notable case is Sega v. Accolade, see also MAI v. Peak, Atari v. Nintendo, and Sony v. Connectix. The judicial record in favor of fair use has been pretty good, particularly in light of the concerns generally voiced by the cyber-rights types. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry!! Boycott Adobe!! Repeal the DMCA!! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010804/133200aa/attachment.pgp From klepht at eleutheria.org Sat Aug 4 19:43:22 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] San Francisco Mailing List Message-ID: <87n15fgrat.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> I want to point out to people in the Bay Area that we are using a single email list to organize ourselves here. If you are not on this list, you are missing important announcements and other information. The list is here: http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-sfba You can sign up quite easily. Thanks, ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Sat Aug 4 19:50:41 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] 2600 Meetings? Message-ID: <87hevngqym.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> So, walking through San Francisco last night around midnight, I saw Free Dmitry flyers on a bunch of telephone poles and in other places. I am pretty sure this was fine, fine 2600 work. Any report from SF meeting? Other meetings? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From MLarma at eFuel.com Sat Aug 4 20:08:34 2001 From: MLarma at eFuel.com (Larma, Mark) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Is it illegal to fax Free Dmitry flyers.... Message-ID: <1E50F10694062B4D922862B413D01C9E03FE@efuelmail.efuel.com> ..to the US Atty. offices in the bay area? I saw a bunch of fax numbers on this link: http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/summer2001/USAO_NDCA.htm I didn't know if it would be considered harrassment or some other type of crime. I suppose there are ways around this, such as faxing from Kinkos, or one of those mailbox places, etc. Mark From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Sat Aug 4 20:21:43 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Is it illegal to fax Free Dmitry flyers.... In-Reply-To: <1E50F10694062B4D922862B413D01C9E03FE@efuelmail.efuel.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Aug 2001, Larma, Mark wrote: > ..to the US Atty. offices in the bay area? I saw a bunch of fax numbers on > this link: > > http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/summer2001/USAO_NDCA.htm > > I didn't know if it would be considered harrassment or some other type of > crime. I suppose there are ways around this, such as faxing from Kinkos, or > one of those mailbox places, etc. I do not speak with any legal authority, but I've been given to understand that unsolicited faxing is rather strongly regulated at either state or federal level (or both?); the one CA statute I know that once covered it is now on shaky ground after having been ruled partially unconstitutional (CA BPC 17538.4), but there are probably other laws in place as well. If we are to stay safely on legal grounds, we should probably avoid sending unsolicited faxes. I don't think there's likely to be much effect other than annoyance from sending our propaganda to the USAO, so I would strongly advise against this approach. -- -alexf From klepht at eleutheria.org Sat Aug 4 20:28:56 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Is it illegal to fax Free Dmitry flyers.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87ae1fgp6v.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "AF" == Alex Fabrikant writes: AF> If we are to stay safely on legal grounds, we should AF> probably avoid sending unsolicited faxes. Not to mention that it reduces us from being a group of serious citizens to be dealt with to a bunch of prank-calling kids. Anyone who's creative enough to think this up can think up some more constructive thing to do with flyers. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From andrea at gravitt.org Sat Aug 4 20:34:55 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] 2600 Meetings? Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 22:50, Klepht wrote: >Any report from SF meeting? Other meetings? I had some at 404 last night. Unfortunately the mall where we have been meeting frowns on anything other than spending money, so there was no general public distribution. I hope at least some people will make their own copies and pass them around. Andrea From MLarma at eFuel.com Sat Aug 4 20:40:29 2001 From: MLarma at eFuel.com (Larma, Mark) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Is it illegal to fax Free Dmitry flyers.... Message-ID: <1E50F10694062B4D922862B413D01C9E03FF@efuelmail.efuel.com> Agreed. I was just trying to come up with something, but after I sent the email I thought that it'd tie up the fax line for something that could possibly help Dmitry get out. They also wouldn't read what we and as others here pointed out, it would be detremental to the cause. I do have flyers outside and inside of my cube at work and have talked with persons at my work about Dmitry. I just don't understand why others are oblivious to the implications of laws like the DMCA. Anti-freedom laws start somewhere. When most do not understand the technology, not to mention what their rights really are, the message just seems to fall on deaf ears. I guess until the media propaganda machine turns it into something hyped up and important, many people just won't pay attention. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Klepht To: 'free-sklyarov@zork.net ' Sent: 8/4/2001 11:28 PM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Is it illegal to fax Free Dmitry flyers.... >>>>> "AF" == Alex Fabrikant writes: AF> If we are to stay safely on legal grounds, we should AF> probably avoid sending unsolicited faxes. Not to mention that it reduces us from being a group of serious citizens to be dealt with to a bunch of prank-calling kids. Anyone who's creative enough to think this up can think up some more constructive thing to do with flyers. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From rsb at ostel.com Sat Aug 4 21:12:32 2001 From: rsb at ostel.com (Rich Bodo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Is it illegal to fax Free Dmitry flyers.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I do not speak with any legal authority, but I've been given to understand > that unsolicited faxing is rather strongly regulated at either state or > federal level (or both?); the one CA statute I know that once covered it > is now on shaky ground after having been ruled partially unconstitutional > (CA BPC 17538.4), but there are probably other laws in place as well. If > we are to stay safely on legal grounds, we should probably avoid sending > unsolicited faxes. I don't think there's likely to be much effect other > than annoyance from sending our propaganda to the USAO, so I would > strongly advise against this approach. One class action case on appeal right now awarded several million dollars to the recipients of fax-spam. I believe the judge awarded treble damages (~$1500.00 per fax) against the defendant, Hooters. Find a clear statement of the purpose of the numbers you would like to fax. See if you can find anything that claims the number is appropriate for complaints, comments, or general communications from constituents. Of course, inside knowledge of how communications are filtered by priority would be ideal. Someone mentioned telegrams. I though that was a pretty good idea. -Rich Rich Bodo | rsb@ostel.com | 650-964-4678 From klepht at eleutheria.org Sat Aug 4 23:39:47 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] National Petition to US Attorney's Office Draft Submission Message-ID: <87n15ff1sc.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> The following text is for the national petition to the US Attorney's Office (based on Thursday's IRC summit). It makes a specific request for Dmitry's release and nothing more. It would probably work best as a "combo pack" -- a fact sheet that will let people understand what they are signing, and the short petition statement asking for Dmitry's immediate release. I'll wordsmith it some more based on suggestions. Seth, I guess, is going to give edits and a thumbs-up-thumbs-down at some point. It'd be really cool to have copies of this for Monday's events, but I think that may be kind of soon. ---8<--- To the Office of the US Attorney for Northern California: We, the undersigned, request that your office immediately drop criminal charges against Dmitry Sklyarov, a Russian programmer arrested for alleged violations of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998. We join with the original complainant, Adobe Systems, Inc., in the position that his continued imprisonment is unwarranted. We ask that Mr. Sklyarov be released without delay and allowed to return home to Moscow to his wife and family. ---8<--- Note that I changed the word "unjustified" to "unwarranted," Seth, based on your suggestion. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From tabindak at best.com Sun Aug 5 00:01:17 2001 From: tabindak at best.com (Tabinda N. Khan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] August 4, 2001 Updated flyers with "Next Event" box Message-ID: <20010805000117.B25666@shell9.ba.best.com> I have posted new version of Free Dmitry flyers at http://www.tabinda.com/freedmitry/. There is a new box in the lower right hand corner for "Next Event" information. The flyers currently posted have the San Jose August 13 event info (so they can be passed out at the bail hearing), but local organizers are welcome to update the box to suit their own needs. If you want the basic flyer without the "Next Event" box, please download the July 29 flyer, available at the same location. Thanks, Tabinda -- From kmself at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 5 00:51:38 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] 2600 Meetings? In-Reply-To: ; from andrea@gravitt.org on Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 11:34:55PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010805005138.A30046@navel.introspect> on Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 11:34:55PM -0400, Andrea (andrea@gravitt.org) wrote: > On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 22:50, Klepht wrote: > >Any report from SF meeting? Other meetings? > > I had some at 404 last night. Unfortunately the mall where we have been > meeting frowns on anything other than spending money, so there was no > general public distribution. I hope at least some people will make their > own copies and pass them around. There are several cases in which malls have been found to be public spaces for the purposes of assembly. Suggest you research this, or I can dig references on request. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry!! Boycott Adobe!! Repeal the DMCA!! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010805/1ee542c5/attachment.pgp From wendy at seltzer.com Sun Aug 5 01:30:29 2001 From: wendy at seltzer.com (Wendy Seltzer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] 2600 Meetings? In-Reply-To: <20010805005138.A30046@navel.introspect> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Karsten M. Self wrote: > on Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 11:34:55PM -0400, Andrea (andrea@gravitt.org) wrote: > > On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 22:50, Klepht wrote: > > >Any report from SF meeting? Other meetings? > > > > I had some at 404 last night. Unfortunately the mall where we have been > > meeting frowns on anything other than spending money, so there was no > > general public distribution. I hope at least some people will make their > > own copies and pass them around. > > There are several cases in which malls have been found to be public > spaces for the purposes of assembly. Suggest you research this, or I > can dig references on request. The canonical case is from California in fact -- Pruneyard Shopping Center v. Robins. The California Supreme Court held that petitioning in the privately-owned mall was speech protected by the California Constitution, and the U.S. Supremes affirmed. By opening up the mall to general public activity, the owners created a public forum in which they couldn't then restrict particular speech, the California court said. Mileage may vary in other states. --Wendy -- Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.com Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard Law School http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html From john.dempsey7 at verizon.net Sun Aug 5 01:43:17 2001 From: john.dempsey7 at verizon.net (John Dempsey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: <01080417211400.18843@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: I also found the Parloff article. I think he'd do better in, say, China, where intellectual and individual freedoms meet commerce in a pragmatic flux. And guess who wins! -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Mark K. Bilbo Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 8:21 PM To: douglay@relicorp.com; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com On Wednesday 01 August 2001 14:23, douglay@relicorp.com wrote: > Anyone interested a quick puke should click here: > > http://www.inside.com/product/product.asp?entity=&pf_ID=E8EECFA3-CBD1- > 447E-952C-CC16283D266C > > If it wasn't clear before, this article should make it crystal- > clear: > > The publishing industry, and its allies in the music and film > industries, cannot tolerate the free exchange of digital information > across the Internet, and are willing to go to any lengths whatsoever > to see that the free exchange of digital information is squelched. > > Anyone for a march on the AAP offices during Usenix? These people > have basically declared war on programmers. > > -Doug Not just programmers but on the Republic itself. The more I read what the founding fathers *meant with copyright and about their concerns about monopolies granted by the state, I'm moving to the position that people such as Parloff are traitors to the Republic. And I'm not just throwing words. I *mean it. The free flow of ideas is essential to maintaining a democracy. Ours is in enough trouble with a public that is becoming increasingly less educated and informed. But to directly assault the limitations the founders meant on monopolies on information is to betray what this nation allegeds to be. "Intellectual property" is, I now think, treason. Mark _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From pmasloch at earthlink.net Sun Aug 5 03:38:05 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] MS Surveillance devices In-Reply-To: <20010804153533.E84824@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: aaahhh....i feel so much better now where i know that also Microsoft is watching over me. I really should write a 'thank you' letter to them. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org Found some interesting things on the M$ website regarding the AAP, our friend Patricia Schroeder and all of them watching you. http://www.microsoft.com/ebooks/das/antipiracy.asp Microsoft is proud to work with the AAP to ensure that consumers are educated on the value of owning eBooks. We are sponsoring an educational Web site to inform the public of the value of copyright and the costs of piracy. We are also helping to deploy *powerful surveillance services* that can identify illegal distribution of Microsoft? Reader eBooks across the Internet, and report findings to publishers. http://www.microsoft.com/ebooks/das/antipiracy.asp Anyone have more info on this? _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From pmasloch at earthlink.net Sun Aug 5 03:48:09 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] intellectual property Message-ID: If i would write a virus or worm (of course, i wouldn't do that) then it would be my intellectual property. The Anti Virus Company 'X' will backward engineer this virus/worm to see how it works. Then they will write a little program which will destroy my intellectual property and publish there result on there website so that everybody can download it. If i look at the DMCA, sec. 1201 then i can see that this is illegal (circumvention device). Maybe somebody should call the FBI....... Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Aug 5 06:53:50 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Northampton/Amherst, MA area Message-ID: <20010805065350.G11634@zork.net> I remember somebody was interested in forming a Northampton, MA area group (I think somebody attending UMass Amherst). I'm out there for a wedding until Tuesday and have about 250 flyers plus a shirt; if anyone around here wants to form an impromptu group, we could distribute literature on Monday. I unfortunately don't have time to connect with the Boston group (since I don't have a car). -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe I'm looking for work: http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/resume.html From mw at themail.com Sun Aug 5 07:29:01 2001 From: mw at themail.com (mw@themail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] College classes start soon Message-ID: <200108051028765.SM00201@mail.TheMail.com> In a couple of weeks, students will be back at school. here at ASU, the intro to Java class consists of HUNDREDS of students and there are two sections. My plan is this: go to the auditorium as students are filing in...a lot will be early. I'll say a few words and hand out flyers. This will impact students on the first day of class and possibly carry them through when the subject comes up again. There are also Kiosks and bulletin boards, but I think the in person distributions before class work well. For those who can't make it before the class, flyer distribution after class as students are leaving the building, classroom, is a good option. -aicra __________________________________________________________________ TheMail.com - Full featured premium email you can count on. Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ From paul at paultopia.net Sun Aug 5 09:52:32 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] 2600 Meetings? In-Reply-To: References: <20010805005138.A30046@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010805103204.03248cc0@mail.paultopia.net> Wendy said: >The canonical case is from California in fact -- Pruneyard Shopping >Center v. Robins. The California Supreme Court held that petitioning in >the privately-owned mall was speech protected by the California >Constitution, and the U.S. Supremes affirmed. By opening up the mall to >general public activity, the owners created a public forum in which they >couldn't then restrict particular speech, the California court said. >Mileage may vary in other states. I happen to have a reasonably comprehensive listing. The good states are the ones you'd expect -- the notoriously liberal ones, CA, MA, OR, etc. The bad states are also the ones you'd expect. Included below. (I didn't cite the major federal cases screwing with the federal first amendment doctrine, nor did I actually cite pruneyard itself, anyone who wants it e-mail me and I'll dig 'em up.) (Also, for logistical reasons, I may be missing some cases from 1993-1996 -- this list is not, in other words, authoritative.) STATE CASES ON PRUNEYARD DOCTRINE (FREE SPEECH IN SHOPPING MALLS) AS OF MID 1999 State Name: Alaska Pruneyard Status: limited Citations: Johnson v. Tait, 774 P.2d 185, 190 (1989) Comments: rejected as to small businesses (a tavern), but expressly reserves the question of shopping centers. See also Fardig v. Municipality of Anchorage, 785 P.2d 915 (Alaska App. 1990) (rejects as to abortion clinic parking lot, again holds out the possibility of deciding differently in shopping mall) State Name: Arizona Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: Fiesta Mall Venture v. Mecham Recall Ctte., 159 Ariz. 371, 767 P.2d 719 (1989) Comments: explicitly rejects both free speech and referendum rationales for the doctrine. Their free speech may be more expansive than federal, but requires state action. State Name: Colorado Pruneyard Status: accepts Citations: Bock v. Westminster Mall Co., 819 P.2d 55 (1991) Comments: Functional equivalency to public forum, state action required but found based on gov't financing, presence, etc. State Name: Conneciticut Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: Cologne v. Westfarms Associates, 192 Conn. 48, 469 A.2d 1201 (1984) Comments: Clear endorsement of Lloyd v. Tanner (referred to as Lloyd)argument. Strong dissent. State Name: Georgia Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: Citizens for Ethical Government v. Gwinnet Place Assoc., 260 Ga. 245, 392 S.E.2d 8 (1990) Comments: expressly adopts Lloyd. State Name: Illinois Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: People v. Diguida, 604 N.E.2d 336 (1992) Comments: Not a mall case: store in question is a grocery store. Explicitly distinguishes Batchelder on that axis. Grocery store is not public forum. Their free speech clause (not their initiative/election clause) is broader than the first amendment, but only covers public or quasi-public. Does not state what would qualify as quasi-public. State Name: Indiana Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: Wilhoite v. Melvin Simon & Associates, 640 N.E.2d 382 (Ind. App. 2 dist. 1994) Comments: there is no liberty interest in access to mall. Note: this case did not raise free speech or election issues, the court just rejected pruneyard in dicta. Also, to my knowledge, the Indiana Supreme Court has not spoken on the issue. State Name: Iowa Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: State v. Lacey, 465 N.W.2d 537-40 (1991) Comments: doesn't really explain why they reject the doctrine State Name: Massachusetts Pruneyard Status: limited Citations: Batchelder v. Allied Stores Intl., 388 Mass. 83, 445 N.E.2d 590 (1983) Comments: based on election stuff in Mass. constitution. Explicitly reserves free speech question. Note also Commonwealth v. Hood, 389 Mass 581, 452 N.E.2d 192 (1983) (the doctine does not apply to anti-nuke activists leafletting in private laboratory), Commonwealth v. Noffke, 376 Mass. 127, 134, 379 N.E.2d 1086 (1978) (free speech clause goes no further than federal. Cited and refused to apply in Batchelder footnote) State Name: Michigan Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: Woodland v. Michigan Citizen's Lobby, 378 N.W.2d 337, 423 Mich. 188 (1985) Comments: state action required for free speech and initiative/election State Name: Minnesotta Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: State v. Wicklund, 559 N.W.2d 793 (Minn 1999) Comments: state free speech no broader than fed State Name: New Jersey Pruneyard Status: accepts Citations: State v. Schmid, 84 N.J. 535, 423 A.2d 615 (1980), New Jersey Coalition v. J.M.B., 138 N.J. 326, 650 A.2d 757 (1994) Comments: full pruneyard, no state action required. Main test is the extent of the public invitation for noncommercial purposes. State Name: New York Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: SHAD Alliance v. Smith Haven Mall, 66 N.Y. 496, 498 NYS2d 99, 488 NE2d 1211 (1985) Comments: based on state action requirement for free speech State Name: North Carolina Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: State v. Felmet, 302 N.C. 173, 273 SE 2d 708 (1981) Comments: "not so disposed" to expand speech protection was the extent of their pruneyard analysis. State Name: Ohio Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: Eastwood Mall v. Slanco, 68 Ohio St. 3d 221, 626 N.E.2d 59 (1994) Comments: state action requirement. However, injunction prohibiting "all communication" is overbroad: speakers would be permitted to chat about politics over lunch at the mall, but not picket, leaflett, etc. State Name: Oregon Pruneyard Status: limited Citations: Lloyd Corporation v. Whiffen, 315 Or. 500, 849 P.2d 446 (1993) (Referred to as Whiffen to distinguish it from Lloyd Corp. v. Tanner.) Comments: Based on initative and referendum provs, re: signatures in mall, no decision on free speech question. Oregon has perhaps the most developed Pruneyard doctrine. See State v. Dameron, 853 P.2d 1287 (1983) (state must prove that a trespass does not meet Whiffen test to get criminal trespass, standard based on size and number of people crossing property); Clackamas Town Center Associates v. Wolf, 315 Or. 557, 849 P.2d 477 (1993) (discussing which time place and manner restrictions can reasonably be imposed by the shopping mall). Fleshed out quite a bit by the intermediate appellate court. See Stranahan v. Meyer, 153 Or. App. 442, 958 P.2d 854 (Or. App. 1998) (Includes very comprehensive analysis of oregon law in all opinions. FN ten of the dissent [p. 883] also discusses the takings question in light of Loretto v. Teleprompter. On that, see G.T.E. Northwest Inc. v. Public Utility Commission, 321 Or. 458, 900 P.2d 495 (1995)). State Name: Pennsylvania Pruneyard Status: limited Citations: Western Penn. Socialist Workers 1982 Campaign v. Connecticut General Life Ins. Co., 515 A.2d 1331, 512 P.A. 23 (1984) Comments: Commonwealth v. Tate, 432 A.2d 1382 (1982) established pruneyard protection when a university invited only speakers on one side of a public issue. Socialist Workers limits the doctrine to exactly that situation: if a private landowner creates a public forum and only allows one side to speak, the other side is protected. If there is a neutral "no political speech" policy (as in a shopping mall), it's entirely enforceable. State Name: South Carolina Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: Charleston Joint Venture v. McPherson, 380 S.C. 145, 417 S.E.2d 544 Comments: S.C. protection is the same as federal, rejects functional equivalency and endorses Lloyd. State Name: Washington Pruneyard Status: very limited Citations: Southcenter Joint Venture v. Natnl. Dem. Policy Committee, 113 Wash.2d 413, 780 P.2d 1282 (1989) Comments: Alderwood v. Wash. Envir. Council, 635 P.2d 108 (1981) accepted the doctrine, but was limited by Southcenter to signature gathering for initative only. State Name: Wisconsin Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: Jacobs v. Major, 139 Wis.2d 492, 407 N.W.2d 832 (1987) Comments: state action based NOTES A. There are several different standards used by the jurisdictions that accept Pruneyard. 1. Functional Equivalence: If a shopping center (etc.) is the functional equivalent of a town square/downtown area, speech/petition there are protected. This test originates with Amalgamated Food Employees Union Local 590 v. Logan Valley Plaza, Inc., 391 U.S. 308, 88 S.Ct. 1601 (1968) (deciding under U.S. constitution, since overruled). It is used often by the Oregon Court of Appeals, State v. Cargill, 100 Or. App. 336, 786 P.2d 208 (Or. App. 1990) aff'd by an equally divided court 316 Or. 492, 851 P.2d 1141, along with a bunch of others. 2. Character of the public invitation: if the public is invited into a place for noncommercial purposes, speech/petition there are protected. A version is used in Pennsylvania. 3. Character of the public invitation II: if the public is invited into a place for the advantage of the owner, speech/petition there are protected. This is also used in some Oregon precedent. 4. Size, crowds: If a shopping center is "large," and/or "large numbers of people" use the area in question, speech/petition there are protected. This is the main test used by the Oregon Supreme Court. B. Special cases. 1. Maryland has a single case, decided based on Marsh (well before the subsequent Supreme Court cases, Logan, Lloyd, etc.), which held that labor picketing of a nonunion store is constitutionally protected. State v. Williams, 44 LRRM 2357, 37 CCH Lab. Cas. pg. 67515, para. 65708 (Md. Crim. Ct. 1959). As it decided based on the U.S. constitution, it too would be overruled by the cases overruling Logan. However, if the Maryland courts at the time believed that the Maryland Constitution also covered this circumstance (which they would, if they believed that it was coextensive with the federal constitution), it may be that a retraction in one does not necessarily imply a retraction in the other. As such, this case may have some small value. 2. Texas has flirted with the doctrine, and at times, dissenting judges have attacked it for no apparent reason, but has never actually decided any case on this sort of facts. The closest they have come to a decision on it is Republican Party of Texas v. Dietz, 940 S.W.2d 90 (Tex. 1997) (political party not required to sell ad space/provide convention booths to gay/lesbian group). 3. Hawaii rejected the doctrine on federal grounds, following Lloyd, but did not address their state constitution. State v. Marley, 509 P.2d 1095 (Ha. 1973). Note also that the doctrine would not apply here even following states like New Jersey, as the property trespassed on was the offices of Honeywell Corp. (the defense contractor). 4. California may have expanded their doctrine to even include grocery stores. It is not clear. At least one lower court issued an injunction against a grocery store preventing petition signature gatherers from using their premises. The CA Supreme Court tacitly approved this decision, granting attorney's fees for the plaintiffs, but did not address the merits. Press v. Lucky Stores, 6567 P.2d 704, 34 Cal.3d 311, 193 Cal. Rptr. 900 (1983). -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From freematt at coil.com Sun Aug 5 10:34:36 2001 From: freematt at coil.com (Matthew Gaylor) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: AAP's Judith Platt replies to Politech post, clarifies remarks Message-ID: Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 15:50:26 -0400 To: jplatt@publishers.org From: Matthew Gaylor Subject: Association of American Publishers Derides Ruby Ridge & Waco types Excerpted via http://www.politechbot.com/p-02311.html : > >...librarians are finding themselves the subject of rhetoric usually > >reserved for terrorists or revolutionaries. "They've got their radical > >factions, like the Ruby Ridge or Waco types," who want to share all > >content for free, said Judith Platt, a spokeswoman for the Association of > >American Publishers. Judith, It's a sad day in America when criticism over the shooting of an unarmed women with a baby in her arms by a FBI sharpshooter (Vicki Weaver shot in the head by FBI's Lon Horichi at Ruby Ridge) and the assault and subsequent inferno that killed over 80 men, women and children by government agents at the Branch Davidian Church in Waco, TX is considered radical. Regards, Matt Gaylor- { Judith Platt may be reached at } [Also sent to Freematt's Alerts, thousands of subscribers worldwide.] ************************************************************************** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: freematt@coil.com with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week) Matthew Gaylor, (614) 313-5722 ICQ: 106212065 Archived at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fa/ ************************************************************************** From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Sun Aug 5 11:43:09 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] College classes start soon In-Reply-To: <200108051028765.SM00201@mail.TheMail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Aug 2001 mw@themail.com wrote: > My plan is this: > go to the auditorium as students are filing in...a lot will be early. > I'll say a few words and hand out flyers. I'm sure this depends on the university, but sometimes when a departmental organization schedules an event, they can get the profs to read a short announcement at the beginning of lecture ("The NIU Math Club is holding its annual math contest, prize of 75 dollars, etc etc") If you have a CS department organization, like student ACM, maybe they can schedule some kind of official event from a rally to a panel discussion on Dmitry and the DMCA, and get the profs to read a brief announcment. Also, I think a *lot* of CS people, students and faculty and administrators, would be highly interested in a presentation or panel discussion centered on all the new risks of breaking the law just by doing normal computer stuff. Just a frank discussion of what all this stuff means to you, the faculty. Imagine a talk covering DMCA, UCITA, Hague convention, and that new proposal to make any use of any school computer by anyone a federal crime. Itemize the various branches of CS by risk of being jailed. Mention current cases, current campaigns, and who's who (MPAA, RIAA, AAP, ETC ETC) And give URLs. You wouldn't need to present something emotionally charged or hand out flyers; just the facts alone, presented in a neutral manner, would terrify any audience of CS people. > -aicra -S From kmself at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 5 12:31:04 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] 2600 Meetings? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010805103204.03248cc0@mail.paultopia.net>; from paul@paultopia.net on Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 10:52:32AM -0600 References: <20010805005138.A30046@navel.introspect> <4.3.2.7.0.20010805103204.03248cc0@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <20010805123104.F16728@navel.introspect> on Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 10:52:32AM -0600, Paul Gowder (paul@paultopia.net) wrote: Thanks to Paul for this list. I've taken the liberty of reformatting it for slightly easier reading (at least under monospaced fonts). > I happen to have a reasonably comprehensive listing. The good states are > the ones you'd expect -- the notoriously liberal ones, CA, MA, OR, > etc. The bad states are also the ones you'd expect. Included below. (I > didn't cite the major federal cases screwing with the federal first > amendment doctrine, nor did I actually cite pruneyard itself, anyone who > wants it e-mail me and I'll dig 'em up.) (Also, for logistical reasons, I > may be missing some cases from 1993-1996 -- this list is not, in other > words, authoritative.) > STATE CASES ON PRUNEYARD DOCTRINE (FREE SPEECH IN SHOPPING MALLS) AS OF MID 1999 State Name: Alaska Pruneyard Status: limited Citations: Johnson v. Tait, 774 P.2d 185, 190 (1989) Comments: rejected as to small businesses (a tavern), but expressly reserves the question of shopping centers. See also Fardig v. Municipality of Anchorage, 785 P.2d 915 (Alaska App. 1990) (rejects as to abortion clinic parking lot, again holds out the possibility of deciding differently in shopping mall) State Name: Arizona Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: Fiesta Mall Venture v. Mecham Recall Ctte., 159 Ariz. 371, 767 P.2d 719 (1989) Comments: explicitly rejects both free speech and referendum rationales for the doctrine. Their free speech may be more expansive than federal, but requires state action. State Name: Colorado Pruneyard Status: accepts Citations: Bock v. Westminster Mall Co., 819 P.2d 55 (1991) Comments: Functional equivalency to public forum, state action required but found based on gov't financing, presence, etc. State Name: Conneciticut Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: Cologne v. Westfarms Associates, 192 Conn. 48, 469 A.2d 1201 (1984) Comments: Clear endorsement of Lloyd v. Tanner (referred to as Lloyd)argument. Strong dissent. State Name: Georgia Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: Citizens for Ethical Government v. Gwinnet Place Assoc., 260 Ga. 245, 392 S.E.2d 8 (1990) Comments: expressly adopts Lloyd. State Name: Illinois Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: People v. Diguida, 604 N.E.2d 336 (1992) Comments: Not a mall case: store in question is a grocery store. Explicitly distinguishes Batchelder on that axis. Grocery store is not public forum. Their free speech clause (not their initiative/election clause) is broader than the first amendment, but only covers public or quasi-public. Does not state what would qualify as quasi-public. State Name: Indiana Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: Wilhoite v. Melvin Simon & Associates, 640 N.E.2d 382 (Ind. App. 2 dist. 1994) Comments: there is no liberty interest in access to mall. Note: this case did not raise free speech or election issues, the court just rejected pruneyard in dicta. Also, to my knowledge, the Indiana Supreme Court has not spoken on the issue. State Name: Iowa Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: State v. Lacey, 465 N.W.2d 537-40 (1991) Comments: doesn't really explain why they reject the doctrine State Name: Massachusetts Pruneyard Status: limited Citations: Batchelder v. Allied Stores Intl., 388 Mass. 83, 445 N.E.2d 590 (1983) Comments: based on election stuff in Mass. constitution. Explicitly reserves free speech question. Note also Commonwealth v. Hood, 389 Mass 581, 452 N.E.2d 192 (1983) (the doctine does not apply to anti-nuke activists leafletting in private laboratory), Commonwealth v. Noffke, 376 Mass. 127, 134, 379 N.E.2d 1086 (1978) (free speech clause goes no further than federal. Cited and refused to apply in Batchelder footnote) State Name: Michigan Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: Woodland v. Michigan Citizen's Lobby, 378 N.W.2d 337, 423 Mich. 188 (1985) Comments: state action required for free speech and initiative/election State Name: Minnesotta Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: State v. Wicklund, 559 N.W.2d 793 (Minn 1999) Comments: state free speech no broader than fed State Name: New Jersey Pruneyard Status: accepts Citations: State v. Schmid, 84 N.J. 535, 423 A.2d 615 (1980), New Jersey Coalition v. J.M.B., 138 N.J. 326, 650 A.2d 757 (1994) Comments: full pruneyard, no state action required. Main test is the extent of the public invitation for noncommercial purposes. State Name: New York Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: SHAD Alliance v. Smith Haven Mall, 66 N.Y. 496, 498 NYS2d 99, 488 NE2d 1211 (1985) Comments: based on state action requirement for free speech State Name: North Carolina Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: State v. Felmet, 302 N.C. 173, 273 SE 2d 708 (1981) Comments: "not so disposed" to expand speech protection was the extent of their pruneyard analysis. State Name: Ohio Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: Eastwood Mall v. Slanco, 68 Ohio St. 3d 221, 626 N.E.2d 59 (1994) Comments: state action requirement. However, injunction prohibiting "all communication" is overbroad: speakers would be permitted to chat about politics over lunch at the mall, but not picket, leaflett, etc. State Name: Oregon Pruneyard Status: limited Citations: Lloyd Corporation v. Whiffen, 315 Or. 500, 849 P.2d 446 (1993) (Referred to as Whiffen to distinguish it from Lloyd Corp. v. Tanner.) Comments: Based on initative and referendum provs, re: signatures in mall, no decision on free speech question. Oregon has perhaps the most developed Pruneyard doctrine. See State v. Dameron, 853 P.2d 1287 (1983) (state must prove that a trespass does not meet Whiffen test to get criminal trespass, standard based on size and number of people crossing property); Clackamas Town Center Associates v. Wolf, 315 Or. 557, 849 P.2d 477 (1993) (discussing which time place and manner restrictions can reasonably be imposed by the shopping mall). Fleshed out quite a bit by the intermediate appellate court. See Stranahan v. Meyer, 153 Or. App. 442, 958 P.2d 854 (Or. App. 1998) (Includes very comprehensive analysis of oregon law in all opinions. FN ten of the dissent [p. 883] also discusses the takings question in light of Loretto v. Teleprompter. On that, see G.T.E. Northwest Inc. v. Public Utility Commission, 321 Or. 458, 900 P.2d 495 (1995)). State Name: Pennsylvania Pruneyard Status: limited Citations: Western Penn. Socialist Workers 1982 Campaign v. Connecticut General Life Ins. Co., 515 A.2d 1331, 512 P.A. 23 (1984) Comments: Commonwealth v. Tate, 432 A.2d 1382 (1982) established pruneyard protection when a university invited only speakers on one side of a public issue. Socialist Workers limits the doctrine to exactly that situation: if a private landowner creates a public forum and only allows one side to speak, the other side is protected. If there is a neutral "no political speech" policy (as in a shopping mall), it's entirely enforceable. State Name: South Carolina Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: Charleston Joint Venture v. McPherson, 380 S.C. 145, 417 S.E.2d 544 Comments: S.C. protection is the same as federal, rejects functional equivalency and endorses Lloyd. State Name: Washington Pruneyard Status: very limited Citations: Southcenter Joint Venture v. Natnl. Dem. Policy Committee, 113 Wash.2d 413, 780 P.2d 1282 (1989) Comments: Alderwood v. Wash. Envir. Council, 635 P.2d 108 (1981) accepted the doctrine, but was limited by Southcenter to signature gathering for initative only. State Name: Wisconsin Pruneyard Status: rejects Citations: Jacobs v. Major, 139 Wis.2d 492, 407 N.W.2d 832 (1987) Comments: state action based NOTES A. There are several different standards used by the jurisdictions that accept Pruneyard. 1. Functional Equivalence: If a shopping center (etc.) is the functional equivalent of a town square/downtown area, speech/petition there are protected. This test originates with Amalgamated Food Employees Union Local 590 v. Logan Valley Plaza, Inc., 391 U.S. 308, 88 S.Ct. 1601 (1968) (deciding under U.S. constitution, since overruled). It is used often by the Oregon Court of Appeals, State v. Cargill, 100 Or. App. 336, 786 P.2d 208 (Or. App. 1990) aff'd by an equally divided court 316 Or. 492, 851 P.2d 1141, along with a bunch of others. 2. Character of the public invitation: if the public is invited into a place for noncommercial purposes, speech/petition there are protected. A version is used in Pennsylvania. 3. Character of the public invitation II: if the public is invited into a place for the advantage of the owner, speech/petition there are protected. This is also used in some Oregon precedent. 4. Size, crowds: If a shopping center is "large," and/or "large numbers of people" use the area in question, speech/petition there are protected. This is the main test used by the Oregon Supreme Court. B. Special cases. 1. Maryland has a single case, decided based on Marsh (well before the subsequent Supreme Court cases, Logan, Lloyd, etc.), which held that labor picketing of a nonunion store is constitutionally protected. State v. Williams, 44 LRRM 2357, 37 CCH Lab. Cas. pg. 67515, para. 65708 (Md. Crim. Ct. 1959). As it decided based on the U.S. constitution, it too would be overruled by the cases overruling Logan. However, if the Maryland courts at the time believed that the Maryland Constitution also covered this circumstance (which they would, if they believed that it was coextensive with the federal constitution), it may be that a retraction in one does not necessarily imply a retraction in the other. As such, this case may have some small value. 2. Texas has flirted with the doctrine, and at times, dissenting judges have attacked it for no apparent reason, but has never actually decided any case on this sort of facts. The closest they have come to a decision on it is Republican Party of Texas v. Dietz, 940 S.W.2d 90 (Tex. 1997) (political party not required to sell ad space/provide convention booths to gay/lesbian group). 3. Hawaii rejected the doctrine on federal grounds, following Lloyd, but did not address their state constitution. State v. Marley, 509 P.2d 1095 (Ha. 1973). Note also that the doctrine would not apply here even following states like New Jersey, as the property trespassed on was the offices of Honeywell Corp. (the defense contractor). 4. California may have expanded their doctrine to even include grocery stores. It is not clear. At least one lower court issued an injunction against a grocery store preventing petition signature gatherers from using their premises. The CA Supreme Court tacitly approved this decision, granting attorney's fees for the plaintiffs, but did not address the merits. Press v. Lucky Stores, 6567 P.2d 704, 34 Cal.3d 311, 193 Cal. Rptr. 900 (1983). -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry!! Boycott Adobe!! Repeal the DMCA!! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010805/f685250d/attachment.pgp From kmself at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 5 12:37:55 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] intellectual property In-Reply-To: ; from pmasloch@earthlink.net on Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 06:48:09AM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010805123755.G16728@navel.introspect> on Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 06:48:09AM -0400, Peter (pmasloch@earthlink.net) wrote: > If i would write a virus or worm (of course, i wouldn't do that) then > it would be my intellectual property. The Anti Virus Company 'X' will > backward engineer this virus/worm to see how it works. IMO, allowed: 17 USC 1201(f), possibly (g), (j) http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/1201.text.html IANAL -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry!! Boycott Adobe!! Repeal the DMCA!! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010805/31d15431/attachment.pgp From sisgeek at yahoo.com Sun Aug 5 14:54:46 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: WIPO Treaty In-Reply-To: <20010804221822.4a112425.nbhs2@i-2000.com> Message-ID: <20010805215446.50787.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> michael, the wipo is just paper until the signing nations enact national laws to implement the treaty. wipo does not require abandonment of prior copyright law and in fact embraces it (berne conventions). nor does wipo require the draconian measures embodied in the DMCA (these are a hollywood fantasy soon to end) --- Michael Scottaline wrote: > On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 17:45:39 -0700 > "Jon O ." insightfully noted: > > > JO> Also, bear in mind the DMCA came from a treaty > with the WIPO. I think > JO> someone __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Sun Aug 5 14:56:36 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: <20010804191409.A25351@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <20010805215636.28165.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com> yes - your being generous in your language karsten. --- "Karsten M. Self" wrote: > on Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 05:45:39PM -0700, Jon O . > (jono@microshaft.org) wrote: > > > > > > > > Anyone for a march on the AAP offices during > Usenix? These people > > > > have basically declared war on programmers. > > > > > > > > -Doug > > > > > > Not just programmers but on the Republic itself. > The more I read > > > what the founding fathers *meant with copyright > and about their > > > concerns about monopolies granted by the state, > I'm moving to the > > > position that people such as Parloff are > traitors to the Republic. > > > > > > And I'm not just throwing words. I *mean it. > > > > > > The free flow of ideas is essential to > maintaining a democracy. Ours > > > is in enough trouble with a public that is > becoming increasingly > > > less educated and informed. But to directly > assault the limitations > > > the founders meant on monopolies on information > is to betray what > > > this nation allegeds to be. > > > > > > "Intellectual property" is, I now think, > treason. > > > > > > > Also, bear in mind the DMCA came from a treaty > with the WIPO. I think > > someone mentioned this, but just to toss it out > again, doesn't this > > treaty overrule our national laws. Meaning, how > much effect would our > > Supreme Court have over the WIPO or laws coming > down from them? It > > seems like we are also losing our "Checks and > Balances." > > As noted, treaties are subject to, not superior to, > the Constitution. > > The treaty as presented doesn't call for the > fascistic measures imposed > in the US DMCA. It does call for effective legal > penalties over > circumvention of > > Article 11: Obligations concerning > Technological Measures > > Contracting Parties shall provide adequate legal > protection and > effective legal remedies against the > circumvention of effective > technological measures that are used by authors > in connection with > the exercise of their rights under this Treaty > or the Berne > Convention and that restrict acts, in respect of > their works, which > are not authorized by the authors concerned or > permitted by law. > > > http://www.wipo.org/eng/diplconf/distrib/treaty01.htm > > Note "in respect of THEIR works, which are not > authorized BY THE AUTHORS > concerned OR PERMITTED BY LAW" (emphasis added). > > It would seem to me that the DMCA grossly oversteps > the WIPO guidelines > themselves by: > > - Proscriptively prohibiting actions otherwise > allowed by law. > > - Prohibiting actions regardless of whether they > are applied to > works addressed under the treaty. "Their works" > would tend to > exclude works already under, say, public domain, > or otherwise not > covered by copyright. > > - Seeking authorization from publishers and > technology licensees, > rather than authors. > > - Creating a new class of prohibitions against > actions unrelated to > copyright violations alltogether. > > As one-sided as WIPO is, the DMCA makes a bad thing > far worse. > > -- > Karsten M. Self > http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ > What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? > There is no K5 cabal > http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ > http://www.kuro5hin.org > Free Dmitry!! Boycott Adobe!! Repeal the DMCA!! > http://www.freesklyarov.org > Geek for Hire > http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html > > ATTACHMENT part 2 application/pgp-signature __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Sun Aug 5 15:09:18 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wretched article at inside.com In-Reply-To: <20010804181007.K84824@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010805220918.26149.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> believe it or not this simple and trite statement is in no small part responsible for dmitry's circumstances. the problem is it tries to compare apples to oranges - it implies that speech rights are (or can be) locked away like sausage in a store! , "a > fair use > defense might allow a user to quote a passage from a > book but it does not follow that the user is > allowed to break into a bookstore and steal a book" > to do so. > > > > > > On 04-Aug-2001, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: > > On Saturday 04 August 2001 17:40, Jon O . wrote: > > > On 04-Aug-2001, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: > > > > On Wednesday 01 August 2001 14:23, > douglay@relicorp.com wrote: > > > > > Anyone interested a quick puke should click > here: > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.inside.com/product/product.asp?entity=&pf_ID=E8EECFA3-CBD1- > > > > > 447E-952C-CC16283D266C > > > > > > > > > > If it wasn't clear before, this article > should make it crystal- > > > > > clear: > > > > > > > > > > The publishing industry, and its allies in > the music and film > > > > > industries, cannot tolerate the free > exchange of digital information > > > > > across the Internet, and are willing to go > to any lengths whatsoever > > > > > to see that the free exchange of digital > information is squelched. > > > > > > > > > > Anyone for a march on the AAP offices during > Usenix? These people > > > > > have basically declared war on programmers. > > > > > > > > > > -Doug > > > > > > > > Not just programmers but on the Republic > itself. The more I read what the > > > > founding fathers *meant with copyright and > about their concerns about > > > > monopolies granted by the state, I'm moving to > the position that people > > > > such as Parloff are traitors to the Republic. > > > > > > > > And I'm not just throwing words. I *mean it. > > > > > > > > The free flow of ideas is essential to > maintaining a democracy. Ours is > > > > in enough trouble with a public that is > becoming increasingly less > > > > educated and informed. But to directly assault > the limitations the > > > > founders meant on monopolies on information is > to betray what this nation > > > > allegeds to be. > > > > > > > > "Intellectual property" is, I now think, > treason. > > > > > > Yes, I think you are right for the most part. > There is a certain amount of > > > need for it as I'm sure you have read to induce > the continued production > > > of it. However, at this point in time, > everything we do is usually created > > > under the employ of a company and therefore > becomes their property. > > > > > > If you end up writing anything I'd be happy to > publish it on > > > www.anti-dmca.org and make cure people read it. > > > > > > Once you start seeing the overall plan with > Windows XP and ebooks > > > and monitoring it starts freaking you out... > > > > It's a blatant attempt by corporations to return > us to fuedalism. And, in > > fact, what I'm reading about the history of > copyright is that it was a major > > tool by monarchs to CENSOR. > > > > Our Constitution says a "limited time" for a > reason. The free flow of > > information is essential to a democracy. But > democracy isn't what > > corporations want. Not anymore. > > > > Jefferson himself rejected the concept of > "property" in regards to ideas. > > "Intellectual property" is wholly un-American and > detrimental to the Republic. > > > > Mark > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Sun Aug 5 15:13:20 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Is sklyarov possibly being held hostage for the release of John Tobin? In-Reply-To: <000d01c11d40$f79f28c0$0601a8c0@p400> Message-ID: <20010805221320.29768.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com> this crossed my mind, also, but i think the DMCA agenda is independent of tobin --- Bill Chess wrote: > I sent the following message before I was registered > and so it probably > didn't get posted. Please forgive if it is a > duplicate. > > Could it be that sklyarov is actually being held > hostage for the release of > the American John Tobin, held by Russian athorities? > If so, maybe when Tobin > gets back to the States- suddenly they will find > that they do not have a > case against Sklyarov? > > Or maybe he is hostage against some other American > the Russians are > retaining? > > Quote: > ROSSOSH, Russia, Aug. 3 - American Fulbright > scholar John Tobin was > released Friday from a Russian prison after serving > half of a one-year drug > sentence, ending a high-profile case that had > strained U.S.-Russia > relations. Throughout his trial and imprisonment, > the Connecticut native > maintained that the charges against him stemmed from > an attempt by the > Russian intelligence services to recruit him as a > spy. > > (It will be more than a week before Tobin will > actually leave Russia) > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Sun Aug 5 15:18:24 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Phoenix protest today/City Cops and Libraries In-Reply-To: <200108041503173.SM00459@mail.TheMail.com> Message-ID: <20010805221824.27570.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> wow the phoenix cops are improving:)! --- mw@themail.com wrote: > > We had a GREAT turnout today! > we handed out a lot of flyers and spoke with people. > > The library was a prime place for protesting/flyer > distro. > > Because we contacted the local p.d. Det. Davis (who > handles city p.r. stuff came down to make sure noone > bothered us) > > One guy complained about us, said we were loitering: > Detective Davis replied: > They have a right to be here... This is the library, > why don't you go inside and read about your > Constitutional rights. > > ahahaha It was great! > > __________________________________________________________________ > TheMail.com - Full featured premium email you can > count on. > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Sun Aug 5 15:23:42 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The digital copyright tug o' war In-Reply-To: <01080411002704.24047@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <20010805222342.94963.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com> i still think you have to read along time to beat gilmore's quote on censorship and the internet: [the internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it] --- "Mark K. Bilbo" wrote: > On Saturday 04 August 2001 10:25, James S. Huggins > \(Free Sklyarov\) wrote: > > >>>Thomas Jefferson was so concerned over the > potential > > >>>for censorship inherent in government grants > of monopolies > > >>>over ideas that he wanted an amendment > included in what > > >>>we now know as the "Bill of Rights" that > would limit all such > > >>>grants of monopoly to a specific number of > years with NO extensions. > > > > Citations would be appreciated from anyone who > knows where to find more > > information on this particular topic (Jefferson > and monopolies). > > > > You could start with: > > http://www.msnbc.com/news/594462.asp > > An article by Siva Vaidhyanathan who has a book > coming out titled _Copyrights > and Copywrongs_. > > Mark > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com Sun Aug 5 15:36:21 2001 From: huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com (huaiyu_zhu@yahoo.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] About Roger Parloff's article at www.inside.com In-Reply-To: <20010804183722.A25448@navel.introspect> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Aug 2001, Karsten M. Self wrote: > on Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 06:24:25PM -0700, huaiyu_zhu@yahoo.com (huaiyu_zhu@yahoo.com) wrote: > > > > > > With regard to Roger Parloff's article at www.inside.com: > > > > > > Any chance you could forward conent of the article? I can't read it at > > > inside.com: > > > > > > http://www.inside.com/product/product.asp?entity=&pf_ID=E8EECFA3-CBD1-447E-952C-CC16283D266C > > > > > > > Hey, I guess that's another reason it's a wretched article! Yes, they > > require subscription now, perhaps because they are afraid to let other > > people read it after many of its flaws are exposed. > > ...which is why I'm asking. Could you? > Sorry I wasn't clear - no, I can't read it now, either. Obviously it was different a few days ago, when it was in plain sight. Maybe that's just their business model - writing something to stir up emotions and attract traffic. Then close it up to charge fees for access. No I don't think it's worth the $0.40 they are charging. Seriously. My rebuttle already summarized its positive points. What remains are only flaws that other people have picked up, too. It's a dead horse. Huaiyu From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sun Aug 5 16:23:13 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] About Roger Parloff's article at www.inside.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > > With regard to Roger Parloff's article at www.inside.com: > > > > > > Any chance you could forward conent of the article? I can't read it at > > > inside.com: > > > > > > http://www.inside.com/product/product.asp?entity=&pf_ID=E8EECFA3-CBD1-447E-9 52C-CC16283D266C > > > > > You might try this url http://www.geocities.com/asdf20000825/free_dmitry_roger_parloff.htm From sklyarov at openwire.com Sun Aug 5 17:04:32 2001 From: sklyarov at openwire.com (Jay Allen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] About Roger Parloff's article at www.inside.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010805170106.00af1240@mail.jlizard.com> At 06:23 PM 8/5/2001 -0500, James S. Huggins \(Free Sklyarov\) wrote: >You might try this url >http://www.geocities.com/asdf20000825/free_dmitry_roger_parloff.htm From the aritcle: >Now let's visit Planet Earth. Dmitry Sklyarov works for ElcomSoft Co. >Ltd., a Moscow-based company that sells, among other things, the Advanced >eBook Processor. That product converts e-books formatted for viewing >through the Adobe eBook Reader into ordinary, unsecured PDF files. Once in >that form, the file is in the free and clear, and can be distributed by >anyone to anyone throughout the globe via numerous file-sharing programs >like Gnutella, KaZaA, iMesh or Freenet, not to mention by e-mail >attachment, or by Aimster-style instant-messaging attachment, or by >posting on evanescent pirate Web sites, and probably via several other >mechanisms that were invented so recently that you and I haven't heard of >them yet. >The point is: it only takes a single unprotected copy to have the material >spread. The cat is then out of the bag and any attempt to bring a >copyright infringement charge against the individual who originally >uploaded it becomes laughably futile, even assuming it were possible to >identify that individual, which it usually isn't. Geez, with that logic, we may want to outlaw vision and speech as circumvention devices as well. I'm mean, all I have to do is load up Dragon Naturally Speaking and dictate the contents of the eBook. Or, if I'm really into pain, I could simply type it up in Emacs. Fscking ridiculous... Jay Allen http://www.openwire.com/web/ From sklyarov at openwire.com Sun Aug 5 17:15:35 2001 From: sklyarov at openwire.com (Jay Allen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fair use "rights" Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010805153335.00ab7378@mail.jlizard.com> | > Check out this bogus language kungfo: | > | > "Fair use is an affirmative defense. | > As such, it is a privilege, not a right." | | And that is a LIE. Actually, it's not. In many forums across the internet (here, /., Kuro5hin and even EFF documents), I've see fair use referred to as a "right" and "personal non-commercial reproduction" included under the fair-use umbrella. Perhaps I'm missing something or perhaps it's just semantics and a bit of lazy writing, OR perhaps there is a flaw in our arguments. Let me expound... [I'm sort of thinking out loud here, and trying to put together some thoughts which may or may not be based in reality. I've read the Consitution, the Bill of Rights and as much of the applicable US Code that I could find, but I could find nothing to contradict what I'm about to write. I would be very interested to find out whether or not the following is correct and, if not, where I've misstepped.] It seems to be a common misconception that we in the U.S. have a right to make backups or do other things which facilitate personal use and that providers of materials must allow for that. US Code, Title 17, Section 107 (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html) deals with the fair-use limitation of exclusive [author's] rights: The fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. First, you'll notice that it says nothing about personal backups, which are actually detailed in Section 1008 (which was introduced with the Audio Home Recording act of 1992, see http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/1008.html): * Prohibition on certain infringement actions No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or distribution of a digital audio recording device, a digital audio recording medium, an analog recording device, or an analog recording medium, or based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device or medium for making digital musical recordings or analog musical recordings. The second thing you may notice about this is that it does not confer upon the consumer any right, but instead a protection from any action (prosecution) under this statute. Producers of copyrighted works are never under any obligation to allow you to sample, backup, copy, etc their work (as they are, by the way, in Russia), however, the law allows you to do so without fear of prosecution. It's a fine point, I know, but it seems that there are no such things as fair use _rights_ or personal use _rights_. Uses such as these are simply protected under a safe harbor provision. Now that's just about copying a work. If the work is encrypted for purposes of copyright protection, then the DMCA kicks in. The DMCA, of course, makes it illegal to circumvent encryption algorithms or other copyright protection measures, further limiting personal use and fair use... All in all it's an erosion of consumer freedom with goods which they have purchased. Quite legal (as far as the DMCA is concerned) but it has a deleterious effect on the consumer freedom. Why is this important? Well, it's probably not, BUT it certainly reflects on the communities knowledge of the law. When fighting with lawmakers and lawyers, we need to avoid sounding like a bunch of reactionaries who only have half of the information. Your thoughts on the above would be greatly appreciated... ======= On another note, section 8(d) of the criminal complaint (under the Basis of Charges, see http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010707_complaint.html) says that Dmitry's name was found on the opening screen as the copyright holder. I have information from "a friend" who has the program that this is absolutely untrue. See http://www.kuro5hin.org/comments/2001/7/28/19211/2584/101#101 for more details. Lastly, please make sure to write your congresscritter to educate them on issues concerning the DMCA (http://www.congress.org/congressorg/dbq/officials/). I was shocked to find that none of my congressional representatives (Boxer, Feinstein, Pelosi) even touched on technology issues on their websites or in almost any of their floor speeches. Seems like if you're representing San Francisco, that you might at least give a little lip service to it, no? At least Boucher (D-Va) seems to be an exception to the rule that congresspeople must have their heads stuck up their collective ass on tech issues. Didya know that the DMCA was passed unanimously by the Senate and passed by voice vote in the House (which means no record exists of individual voting records). There's some serious edumacation needing to be doled out in Washington... Thanks, Jay Allen http://www.openwire.com/web/ P.S. Isn't it wonderful how the DMCA excepts Government agencies from encryption algorithm circumvention for the purposes of law enforcement. (Title 17, section 1201(e), http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/1201.html) P.P.S. If you haven't Bryan Pfaffenberger's Linux Journal article entitled "Linux and DeCSS: What the MPAA is Really After", do so: http://www2.linuxjournal.com/articles/currents/016.html From badnewsbears at prodigy.net Sun Aug 5 17:05:44 2001 From: badnewsbears at prodigy.net (Yogi) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: free-sklyarov digest, Vol 1 #185 - 87 msgs References: Message-ID: <003901c11e0b$8b127240$73f2fea9@n6y3p0> It is a good thing that Huaiyu Zhu (I mean no offense if I did not get your name correct ;-) offered us a summary of the Parloff article. I followed the links and found that I couldn't read the it unless I paid. Ironic? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 1:41 AM Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: free-sklyarov digest, Vol 1 #185 - 87 msgs > > With regard to Roger Parloff's article at www.inside.com: > > This article is perhaps the first time the pro-DMCA side presented > anything credible and honest for their arguments. So it is also a good > opportunity to refine our own thoughts and arguemnts. > > One thing that will become clear over the long run is that neither side > will win the argument by making claims on abstract rights. The truth is > that there is no feasible technology that can perfectly protect the > rights of everyone without infringing on the rights of others. > > Parloff's point is that by making unprotected copies available, even if > most of these are for legitimate uses, Sklyarov created an opportunity > for illegal copying. And in the digital age it only takes one illegal > copy to spread to the whole Internet. And punishing Sklyarov is the > most effective way to prevent this from happening. > > I think this is a valid argument for one angle of the problem. But > there are more important counter arguments. > > It is true that digital technologies pose new threats to certain rights > of certain sections of society, while providing new opportunities for > many people to enjoy their rights in new ways. Just as any new > technology has always done. > > But DMCA holds the IP rights as absolute right that trumps human rights > and consumer rights of everybody else with little contrition. > > Parloff effectively says that the right of Adobe to protect their profit > is very important, because it is a very big financial sum (even though > it is made up of $9 sales), while the right of researchers to free > speech, the right of consumers for fair use, and the right of disabled > people for equal access should take second seat, because they don't have > that much financial stakes. (He actually made some calculations.) > > He essentially says that it is acceptable to punish a tool maker if the > tool can potentially be used unlawfully and if it would be difficult to > catch and punish those who actually break the law. If it takes away the > personal freedom and the freedom of speech for one individual, so be it, > as long as this creates a bottleneck for the unlawful activities. > > He implies that it might even be reasonable to punish an employee of a > toolmaker if it is difficult to punish the company. Or just hold him > hostage until such time that its managers can be caught. > > He implies that it is acceptable to hand out *preventive punishments* > even if no one has ever used the tool for any unlawful uses just yet, as > long as the possibility for unlawful use exists. > > This is very similar to the way some totalitarian regimes justify their > infringement on human rights: mistreating dissidents is necessary to > ensure social stability, which is deemed to have a larger value. > > "If an idea is dangerous, punish the messenger before it spreads." > > DMCA allows one side of the conflict to infringe on a variety of > fundamental rights of everybody else, just so as to protect its own > financial rights from infringements that might not have materialized. > > If we hold it to be self-evident that all men are created equal, then > such biased laws are very wrong. > > > Huaiyu Zhu > > [Permision hereby granted for inclusion into any collection of comments > /counter-comments. Editorial changes (such as linking to actual > articles) welcome and appreciated.] > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From kfoss at planetpdf.com Sun Aug 5 17:10:50 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fair use "rights" In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010805153335.00ab7378@mail.jlizard.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010805153335.00ab7378@mail.jlizard.com> Message-ID: At 5:15 PM -0700 8/5/01, Jay Allen wrote: >On another note, section 8(d) of the criminal complaint (under the >Basis of Charges, see >http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010707_complaint.html) >says that Dmitry's name was found on the opening screen as the >copyright holder. We covered this in some detail a while back: "Who actually owns the Copyright for Advanced eBook Processor?" http://www.planetpdf.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=1546 rgds ~ Kurt ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network -- From kmself at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 5 17:07:15 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [declan@well.com: FC: More on AAP, librarians, Waco, Ruby Ridge, and the Sklyarov case] Message-ID: <20010805170715.C26877@navel.introspect> Skipped content of type multipart/mixed-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010805/0ded8226/attachment.pgp From free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org Sun Aug 5 17:11:44 2001 From: free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org (Julian T. J. Midgley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] About Roger Parloff's article at www.inside.com In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010805170106.00af1240@mail.jlizard.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Jay Allen wrote: > At 06:23 PM 8/5/2001 -0500, James S. Huggins \(Free Sklyarov\) wrote: > > >You might try this url > >http://www.geocities.com/asdf20000825/free_dmitry_roger_parloff.htm > > From the aritcle: > > >Now let's visit Planet Earth. Dmitry Sklyarov works for ElcomSoft Co. > >Ltd., a Moscow-based company that sells, among other things, the Advanced > >eBook Processor. That product converts e-books formatted for viewing > >through the Adobe eBook Reader into ordinary, unsecured PDF files. Once in > >that form, the file is in the free and clear, and can be distributed by > >anyone to anyone throughout the globe via numerous file-sharing programs > >like Gnutella, KaZaA, iMesh or Freenet, not to mention by e-mail > >attachment, or by Aimster-style instant-messaging attachment, or by > >posting on evanescent pirate Web sites, and probably via several other > >mechanisms that were invented so recently that you and I haven't heard of > >them yet. > >The point is: it only takes a single unprotected copy to have the material > >spread. The cat is then out of the bag and any attempt to bring a > >copyright infringement charge against the individual who originally > >uploaded it becomes laughably futile, even assuming it were possible to > >identify that individual, which it usually isn't. > > Geez, with that logic, we may want to outlaw vision and speech as > circumvention devices as well. I'm mean, all I have to do is load up > Dragon Naturally Speaking and dictate the contents of the eBook. Or, if > I'm really into pain, I could simply type it up in Emacs. Fscking > ridiculous... And this also plays beautifully into our hands in that, for all practical purposes, every eBook is effectively an 'unprotected copy', in spite of Adobe's claims to the contrary, given that the copyright protection mechanism is trivially broken and could as easily have been broken by a black hat as it was by Elcomsoft. The day to day activities of the warez community are testament to this- practically every mechanism software companies have employed to prevent the illegal copying and distribution of their software has been broken by the warez guys, often before the public release of the product. And the warez community have suffered very little prosecution, since they are generally quite hard to trace, as the guy admits in the article above. It follows that the anti-circumvention provisions of the DMCA will do next to nothing to prevent the spread of illegal copies of copyrighted works amongst the underground; which leaves us with their only practical effects being the discouragement of research, free speech and the creation of interoperable software programs. In particular, by discouraging people from pointing out flaws in copyright protection mechanisms, the DMCA practically guarantees that the only copyright protection mechanisms that exist will be crap ones that present no difficulties whatever to the black hats. Julian -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F UK Free Dmitry Protest: http://uk.freesklyarov.org/ From kmself at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 5 17:40:57 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fair use "rights" In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010805153335.00ab7378@mail.jlizard.com>; from sklyarov@openwire.com on Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 05:15:35PM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010805153335.00ab7378@mail.jlizard.com> Message-ID: <20010805174056.C26031@navel.introspect> on Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 05:15:35PM -0700, Jay Allen (sklyarov@openwire.com) wrote: > | > Check out this bogus language kungfo: > | > > | > "Fair use is an affirmative defense. > | > As such, it is a privilege, not a right." > | > | And that is a LIE. > > Actually, it's not. In many forums across the internet (here, /., > Kuro5hin and even EFF documents), I've see fair use referred to as a > "right" and "personal non-commercial reproduction" included under the > fair-use umbrella. Perhaps I'm missing something or perhaps it's just > semantics and a bit of lazy writing, OR perhaps there is a flaw in our > arguments. Let me expound... Personally, I'd like to see a comment from one of the lawyers on this. My copy of Black's Law Dictionary defines affirmative defense as: A defendant's assertion raising new facts and arguments that, if true, will defeat the plaintiff's or government's claims even if all allegations in the compoaint are true; examples of affirmative defenses include duress and contributory negligence (in civil cases) and insantity and self-defense (in criminal cases). Which I understand to mean that affirmative defense is a recourse of the defendant, and can be used in both civil and criminal cases. My understanding is that this means an affirmative defense cannot be raised as an action against a copyrightholder, but only in defense to copyright infringement actions commenced against the party claiming fair use. Which doesn't address the question of whether or not a suit could be raised against a rightsholder in the name of fair use. My reading of the law is that it cannot: [T]he fair use of a copyrighted work...is not an infringement of copyright. ...implying fair use must be made, an infringement claim raised, and the fair use exemption invoked. One change to this situation is that previous to DMCA, copyright law itself was not directly effective in proscribing fair use. Under DMCA, the attempt itself involves other actions, deemed illegal. One possible avenue, should 1201(b) prohibitions be upheld, would be for fair use complaints against copyrightholders. > It seems to be a common misconception that we in the U.S. have a right > to make backups 17 USC 117. > or do other things which facilitate personal use and that providers of > materials must allow for that. US Code, Title 17, Section 107 > (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html) deals with the > fair-use limitation of exclusive [author's] rights: > > The fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by > reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means > specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, > comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies > for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an > infringement of copyright. > > First, you'll notice that it says nothing about personal backups, > which are actually detailed in Section 1008 (which was introduced with > the Audio Home Recording act of 1992, see > http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/1008.html): > Prohibition on certain infringement actions > > No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of > copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or distribution > of a digital audio recording device, a digital audio recording > medium, an analog recording device, or an analog recording medium, > or based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device > or medium for making digital musical recordings or analog musical > recordings. > > The second thing you may notice about this is that it does not confer > upon the consumer any right, but instead a protection from any action > (prosecution) under this statute. More pointedly, it doesn't state that this isn't an infringement, or even that it's not a crime. Merely that it's not actionable. > Producers of copyrighted works are never under any obligation to allow > you to sample, backup, copy, etc their work (as they are, by the way, > in Russia), however, the law allows you to do so without fear of > prosecution. It's a fine point, I know, but it seems that there are > no such things as fair use _rights_ or personal use _rights_. Uses > such as these are simply protected under a safe harbor provision. > > Now that's just about copying a work. If the work is encrypted for > purposes of copyright protection, then the DMCA kicks in. The DMCA, > of course, makes it illegal to circumvent encryption algorithms or > other copyright protection measures, further limiting personal use and > fair use... All in all it's an erosion of consumer freedom with goods > which they have purchased. Quite legal (as far as the DMCA is > concerned) but it has a deleterious effect on the consumer freedom. > > Why is this important? Well, it's probably not, BUT it certainly > reflects on the communities knowledge of the law. When fighting with > lawmakers and lawyers, we need to avoid sounding like a bunch of > reactionaries who only have half of the information. > > Your thoughts on the above would be greatly appreciated... Important and significant. What the ultimate outcomes are remains to be seen. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry!! Boycott Adobe!! Repeal the DMCA!! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010805/bd0470ac/attachment.pgp From kmself at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 5 17:47:33 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Article: Economist: But Dmitry did no wong Message-ID: <20010805174733.A28002@navel.introspect> A clumsy law lands a Russian programmer in an American jail http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=S%26%28%28%28%25PQ%5B%27%0A This is in the paid/print-only section, I've not read it, but the summary looks promising. Unlike some rags, The Economist is well worth buying, I'll pick up a copy later this evening. Too bad it's such a liberal venue, otherwise this might have some credibility ;-) -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010805/05c2de09/attachment.pgp From badnewsbears at prodigy.net Sun Aug 5 18:12:11 2001 From: badnewsbears at prodigy.net (Yogi) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The digital copyright tug o' war References: <01080411002704.24047@bilbo.blorch.org> <20010804110604.C84824@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <00e501c11e14$d4059780$73f2fea9@n6y3p0> In his first inaugural address, on March 4, 1861, Abraham Lincoln said: "Whenever . . . [the people who inhabit this country] shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon O ." To: "Mark K. Bilbo" Cc: Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 11:06 AM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] The digital copyright tug o' war > > I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me > and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country.... > corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high > places will follow, and the money power of the country will > endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of > the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the > Republic is destroyed." > -- U.S. President Abraham Lincoln, Nov. 21, 1864 > > > > On 04-Aug-2001, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: > > On Saturday 04 August 2001 10:25, James S. Huggins \(Free Sklyarov\) wrote: > > > >>>Thomas Jefferson was so concerned over the potential > > > >>>for censorship inherent in government grants of monopolies > > > >>>over ideas that he wanted an amendment included in what > > > >>>we now know as the "Bill of Rights" that would limit all such > > > >>>grants of monopoly to a specific number of years with NO extensions. > > > > > > Citations would be appreciated from anyone who knows where to find more > > > information on this particular topic (Jefferson and monopolies). > > > > > > > You could start with: > > > > http://www.msnbc.com/news/594462.asp > > > > An article by Siva Vaidhyanathan who has a book coming out titled _Copyrights > > and Copywrongs_. > > > > Mark > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From crism at maden.org Sun Aug 5 18:10:03 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The digital copyright tug o' war In-Reply-To: <00e501c11e14$d4059780$73f2fea9@n6y3p0> References: <01080411002704.24047@bilbo.blorch.org> <20010804110604.C84824@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010805180942.00a509e0@mail.maden.org> At 18:12 5-08-2001, Yogi wrote: >In his first inaugural address, on March 4, 1861, Abraham Lincoln said: > >"Whenever . . . [the people who inhabit this country] shall grow weary of >the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of >amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." Too bad he reneged on that one. -crism From lgorkin1 at nyc.rr.com Sun Aug 5 18:37:28 2001 From: lgorkin1 at nyc.rr.com (Leonid Gorkin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fwd: [fairuse] Noon Monday 6 August 2001: Rally to Free Dmitry Sklyarov in NYC Message-ID: <01080521372800.13335@shire> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Fwd: [fairuse] Noon Monday 6 August 2001: Rally to Free Dmitry Sklyarov Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 18:37:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Leonid Gorkin To: lgorkin1@nyc.rr.com --- Jay Sulzberger wrote: > Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 14:04:25 -0400 (EDT) > From: Jay Sulzberger > To: > Subject: [fairuse] Noon Monday 6 August 2001: Rally > to Free Dmitry Sklyarov > Reply-to: fairuse@mrbrklyn.com > > > Noon Monday 6 August 2001 at 41st Street and Fifth > Avenue, before the > New York Public Library, on the Island of Manhattan, > there will be a rally > to free Dmitry Sklyarov. > > Note that this is not an LXNY event, but rather the > third of a series of > rallies, whose Lead Organizer and First Contact is > > Leonid Gorkin > lgorkin@excite.com or lgorkin1@nyc.rr.com > > There have been and will be rallies in about twenty > cities. > > http://freesklyarov.org/calendar > > Much of the organizing of New York City Rallies to > Free Dmitry take place > on the fairuse mailing list of NYFairUse, which list > may be joined at > > http://www.nyfairuse.org > > To download a flyer go to: > > http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/dmitry-links > > For more information: > > http://freesklyarov.org > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > http://eff.org > http://www.dibona.com/dmca > http://www.templetons.com/brad/free.html > > who="Jay Sulzberger"> > > Why do we rally at the New York Public Library? > Because the Association of > American Publishers has declared that they plan to > close down all free > public libraries. Their chosen tool is the Digital > Millennium Copyright Act. > The DMCA outlaws fair use of books that you, or the > library, have bought > and paid for: http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36584-2001Feb7.html > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-201-6545588-0.html > http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html > http://www.fsf.org/philosophy > > We need marchers and leafleteers and copiers of > leaflets and designers of > leaflets and propagandizers and lobbyists and > lawyers and coders and water > carriers and publicists and diplomats. Come to the > Rally and help! Come > to the Rally and meet allies! > > Dmitry Sklyarov sits in jail today. Come to the > Rally and help get him > out! > > > > Jay Sulzberger > Corresponding Secretary LXNY > LXNY is New York's Free Computing Organization. > http://www.lxny.org > > ____________________________ > New Yorkers for Fair Use - > because it's either fair use or useless.... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------------------------------- From badnewsbears at prodigy.net Sun Aug 5 18:45:04 2001 From: badnewsbears at prodigy.net (Yogi) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: AAP's Judith Platt replies to Politech post, clarifies remarks References: Message-ID: <014301c11e19$6b9dbd80$73f2fea9@n6y3p0> ...or compared to the gentle activism of librarians. > > Excerpted via http://www.politechbot.com/p-02311.html : > > >...librarians are finding themselves the subject of rhetoric usually > > >reserved for terrorists or revolutionaries. "They've got their radical > > >factions, like the Ruby Ridge or Waco types," who want to share all > > >content for free, said Judith Platt, a spokeswoman for the Association of > > >American Publishers. > > Judith, > > It's a sad day in America when criticism over the shooting of an > unarmed women with a baby in her arms by a FBI sharpshooter (Vicki > Weaver shot in the head by FBI's Lon Horichi at Ruby Ridge) and the > assault and subsequent inferno that killed over 80 men, women and > children by government agents at the Branch Davidian Church in Waco, > TX is considered radical. > > Regards, Matt Gaylor- > ...or compared to the gentle activism of librarians. > { Judith Platt may be reached at } > > [Also sent to Freematt's Alerts, thousands of subscribers worldwide.] > > > ************************************************************************** > Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues > Send a blank message to: freematt@coil.com with the words subscribe FA > on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week) > Matthew Gaylor, (614) 313-5722 ICQ: 106212065 Archived at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fa/ > ************************************************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From MLarma at eFuel.com Sun Aug 5 18:54:55 2001 From: MLarma at eFuel.com (Larma, Mark) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Phoenix protest today/City Cops and Libraries Message-ID: <1E50F10694062B4D922862B413D01C9E0402@efuelmail.efuel.com> I used to live in Phoenix, so hearing that the detective did that is simply great! Hearing these things is very encouraging! -----Original Message----- From: alfee cube To: mw@themail.com; free-sklyarov@zork.net Sent: 8/5/2001 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Phoenix protest today/City Cops and Libraries wow the phoenix cops are improving:)! --- mw@themail.com wrote: > > We had a GREAT turnout today! > we handed out a lot of flyers and spoke with people. > > The library was a prime place for protesting/flyer > distro. > > Because we contacted the local p.d. Det. Davis (who > handles city p.r. stuff came down to make sure noone > bothered us) > > One guy complained about us, said we were loitering: > Detective Davis replied: > They have a right to be here... This is the library, > why don't you go inside and read about your > Constitutional rights. > > ahahaha It was great! > > __________________________________________________________________ > TheMail.com - Full featured premium email you can > count on. > Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Aug 5 19:20:21 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] National Petition to US Attorney's Office Draft Submission In-Reply-To: <87n15ff1sc.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 11:39:47PM -0700 References: <87n15ff1sc.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010805192021.X11634@zork.net> Klepht writes: > The following text is for the national petition to the US Attorney's > Office (based on Thursday's IRC summit). It makes a specific request > for Dmitry's release and nothing more. > > It would probably work best as a "combo pack" -- a fact sheet that > will let people understand what they are signing, and the short > petition statement asking for Dmitry's immediate release. > > I'll wordsmith it some more based on suggestions. Seth, I guess, is > going to give edits and a thumbs-up-thumbs-down at some point. It'd be > really cool to have copies of this for Monday's events, but I think > that may be kind of soon. > > ---8<--- > To the Office of the US Attorney for Northern California: > > We, the undersigned, request that your office immediately drop > criminal charges against Dmitry Sklyarov, a Russian programmer > arrested for alleged violations of the Digital Millennium Copyright > Act of 1998. We join with the original complainant, Adobe Systems, > Inc., in the position that his continued imprisonment is unwarranted. > We ask that Mr. Sklyarov be released without delay and allowed to > return home to Moscow to his wife and family. > ---8<--- > > Note that I changed the word "unjustified" to "unwarranted," Seth, > based on your suggestion. This is simpler than something I would have written, but I'm happy to discharge my role of approving it. I would suggest adding, after "unwarranted.", "We believe that his prosecution is not in the public's interest" and possibly ", and is of grave concern [or ________] to scientists worldwide who consider visiting the United States to share their knowledge at conferences". (No suggestion that Adobe believes any of _these_ things; it is we who believe them. That's why they're in a separate sentence.) For referential clarity: "in the position that Mr. Sklyarov's continued imprisonment [...]" (because people who don't know that corporations lack grammatical gender in English might read "his" as "Adobe's"). The office is of the "U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of California", which is different from "Northern California". (Does anybody know whether Acting USA Shapiro has been named USA now that USA Mueller has been confirmed as FBI director? The petition could actually be directed to him, in that case.) Although I usually use a year when mentioning an Act of Congress, that's actually more British Commonwealth practice than U.S. legal practice; it might sound odd to an experienced U.S. lawyer like a U.S. Attorney to say "the Foo Act of Year" rather than "the Foo Act" or "17 USC Mumble". (Can a lawyer here agree or disagree?) So I approve this petition and recommend the above changes. In other news, a song ("You Can Call Me Al" by Paul Simon) was dedicated to Dmitry Sklyarov at the wedding celebration I attended this weekend. We all danced energetically in his honor. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From warthawg at ecpi.com Sun Aug 5 19:47:47 2001 From: warthawg at ecpi.com (Joe Barr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] This just in - New copyright protection from Adobe Message-ID: <20010805214747.529bb314.warthawg@ecpi.com> PRESS RELEASE, AUG 5, 2001, AUSTIN, TEXAS Adobe announced late this afternoon a whole new approach to protecting the copyrights of publishers using their popular ebook devices. Written in Java, the new ebook format is called ROT, for Read Once Technology. After being read for the first time, the text is pulverized into non-contiguous pixels and then scattered in ROM. Prior to its first and only reading, the text is protected from unauthorized use by a transparent encryption system called ROT26, which is estimated to be twice as powerful as its predecessor, ROT13. Adobe spokesperson Patsy Prudence says the new technologies should have a chilling effect on those who would circumvent copyright holder rights and priveleges. "The notion of fair use is a dated antiquity," Prudence said, "and one which can't help but hinder corporate profits. Radical fringe elements and institutions like schools, students, libraries, researchers and teachers can whine all they like, but we are using technology to keep them in their place." -- #=============================================# # The text of this message may be read aloud. # #=============================================# From crawford at goingware.com Sun Aug 5 19:40:09 2001 From: crawford at goingware.com (mike) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] My friend's WIPO fight Message-ID: <3B6E0389.287D9CF3@goingware.com> I friend of mine who registered afm.com for the legitimate purpose of developing his own ecommerce business on the site is fighting a WIPO action by afma.com, the american film marketing association. You may find his site interesting: http://www.shameontheafma.com/ Mike crawford@goingware.com From paul at paultopia.net Sun Aug 5 20:03:58 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fair use "rights" In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010805153335.00ab7378@mail.jlizard.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010805210147.03236210@mail.paultopia.net> Jay Allen wrote: >The second thing you may notice about this is that it does not confer upon >the consumer any right, but instead a protection from any action >(prosecution) under this statute. Producers of copyrighted works are >never under any obligation to allow you to sample, backup, copy, etc their >work (as they are, by the way, in Russia), however, the law allows you to >do so without fear of prosecution. It's a fine point, I know, but it >seems that there are no such things as fair use _rights_ or personal use >_rights_. Uses such as these are simply protected under a safe harbor >provision. Have you ever heard the phrase "distinction without a difference?" A right is just something you can't be prosecuted for. By your argument, in the US, there's no "right" to free speech, it's just that Congress isn't allowed to make any law against it. Personally, BTW, I think fair use is constitutionally required, but that's a very long argument that is neither here nor there. -Paul -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sun Aug 5 20:12:52 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fair use "rights" In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010805210147.03236210@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: Paul Gowder wrote: Personally, BTW, I think fair use is constitutionally required, but that's a very long argument that is neither here nor there. But isn't it, perhaps, the core issue in the DMCA dispute? James S. Huggins From MLarma at eFuel.com Sun Aug 5 20:15:27 2001 From: MLarma at eFuel.com (Larma, Mark) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] This just in - New copyright protection from Adobe Message-ID: <1E50F10694062B4D922862B413D01C9E0403@efuelmail.efuel.com> Don't give them any ideas :-) -----Original Message----- From: Joe Barr To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Sent: 8/5/2001 10:47 PM Subject: [free-sklyarov] This just in - New copyright protection from Adobe PRESS RELEASE, AUG 5, 2001, AUSTIN, TEXAS Adobe announced late this afternoon a whole new approach to protecting the copyrights of publishers using their popular ebook devices. Written in Java, the new ebook format is called ROT, for Read Once Technology. After being read for the first time, the text is pulverized into non-contiguous pixels and then scattered in ROM. Prior to its first and only reading, the text is protected from unauthorized use by a transparent encryption system called ROT26, which is estimated to be twice as powerful as its predecessor, ROT13. Adobe spokesperson Patsy Prudence says the new technologies should have a chilling effect on those who would circumvent copyright holder rights and priveleges. "The notion of fair use is a dated antiquity," Prudence said, "and one which can't help but hinder corporate profits. Radical fringe elements and institutions like schools, students, libraries, researchers and teachers can whine all they like, but we are using technology to keep them in their place." -- #=============================================# # The text of this message may be read aloud. # #=============================================# _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From sklyarov at openwire.com Sun Aug 5 21:10:51 2001 From: sklyarov at openwire.com (Jay Allen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fair use "rights" In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010805210147.03236210@mail.paultopia.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010805153335.00ab7378@mail.jlizard.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010805204704.00ace1a0@mail.jlizard.com> At 09:03 PM 8/5/2001 -0600, Paul Gowder wrote: >Have you ever heard the phrase "distinction without a difference?" A >right is just something you can't be prosecuted for. And that's why I mentioned that the cause of the confusion may be semantic. It is important to note, however, that language is the one science of law. While, I may have heard of the phrase "distinction without a difference", I doubt that lawyers think that such a thing exists ("devil in the details")... >By your argument, in the US, there's no "right" to free speech, it's just >that Congress isn't allowed to make any law against it. I think that you may think I'm thinking something that I'm not thinking. :-) I have no argument with fair use. I have no argument with personal use. They are both Very Good Things. My only point was that we call it a right but it's not per se AFAIK. I was looking for some piece of information which may make it a right. There is a right to free speech, because Congress is proscribed by the Constitution from passing any laws which infringe on it. See Amendment 1 of the Bill of Rights. There is no similar proscription for fair use or personal use of copyrighted materials AFAIK. What's the difference between a right and "something you can't be prosecuted for"? I'd say that it would be the ease with which it can change. 218 Representatives, 51 Senators and one President go for a hell of a lot less (as far as the MPAA/RIAA are concerned) than one Constitutional amendment. :-) Without a right--a Constitutional right, if you prefer-one little amendment to Title 17 and >poof<. >Personally, BTW, I think fair use is constitutionally required, but that's >a very long argument that is neither here nor there. I'm intrigued and would love to hear more... I agree with James that such an argument would be central to getting the DMCA overturned in a court of law. -j- http://www.openwire.com/web/ From david.haworth at altavista.net Sun Aug 5 22:51:48 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Language: copy prevention In-Reply-To: <20010803163227.D27731@navel.introspect>; from kmself@ix.netcom.com on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 04:32:28PM -0700 References: <20010803163227.D27731@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <20010806075148.A3211@3soft.de> On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 04:32:28PM -0700, Karsten M. Self wrote: > I'm suggesting that the term used to describe anti-circumvention works > under the DMCA be "copy prevention". This describes what they do, they > provide (or attempt) a technical block on copying data. > > Other terms include > > - "digital rights management" (DRM): too vague and antisceptic. > - "content protection": used by fair use opponents, sounds vague > helpful. "Gee, I'm being protected from something". > - "copy protection": coined by John Gilmore. More accurate, but > still a bit of warm fuzz. > > "Copy prevention" states what these technolgies and laws are aimed at. > That's my suggestion. > > Comments? I'm against this term simply because that's what the manufacturers want you to think. But none of these so-called protections actually prevent copying - they're all access-control technologies. -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From jono at microshaft.org Sun Aug 5 22:52:04 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fair use "rights" In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010805153335.00ab7378@mail.jlizard.com>; from sklyarov@openwire.com on Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 05:15:35PM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010805153335.00ab7378@mail.jlizard.com> Message-ID: <20010805225204.R84824@networkcommand.com> On 05-Aug-2001, Jay Allen wrote: > | > Check out this bogus language kungfo: > | > > | > "Fair use is an affirmative defense. > | > As such, it is a privilege, not a right." > | > | And that is a LIE. > > Actually, it's not. In many forums across the internet (here, /., Kuro5hin > and even EFF documents), I've see fair use referred to as a "right" and > "personal non-commercial reproduction" included under the fair-use > umbrella. Perhaps I'm missing something or perhaps it's just semantics and > a bit of lazy writing, OR perhaps there is a flaw in our arguments. Let me > expound... > > > The fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by > reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means > specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, > comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies > for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an > infringement of copyright. > Thanks for the input on this issue. However, here is a quote from Justice Sandra Day O'Conner which seems to sum up my concerns: "The primary objective of copyright is not to reward the labor of authors, but to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts. To this end, copyright assures authors the right to their original expression, but encourages others to build freely upon the ideas and information conveyed by a work. This result is neither unfair nor unfortunate. It is the means by which copyright advances the progress of science and art". There are many other papers, etc. which use this same theme here: http://www.anti-dmca.org/intro.html Thanks, Jon From david.haworth at altavista.net Sun Aug 5 22:57:34 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Encryption == shrinkwrap In-Reply-To: ; from sacraver@EE.Princeton.EDU on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 08:02:00PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010806075734.B3211@3soft.de> On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 08:02:00PM -0400, Xcott Craver wrote: > > I think the first counter-argument that springs to mind is > that merely removing CD shrinkwrap has the same effect, of > stripping away protections to get a "free and clear," pirateable > copy. Thus merely creating an opportunity doesn't mean much. Brilliant! The analogy's perfect. You have to remove the shrinkwrap to play the CD - but the manufacturers want to sell you special shrinkwrap removers and bought legislation to outlaw any other kind. -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From john.dempsey7 at verizon.net Sun Aug 5 23:03:47 2001 From: john.dempsey7 at verizon.net (John Dempsey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NINCH Copyright Town Meeting in NYC (fwd) [Sept. 24] In-Reply-To: <3B6C9640.E41377B3@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Message-ID: Hi. What is the specific time and address for the Monday NYC ongoing protest? John -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Seth Johnson Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 8:42 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] NINCH Copyright Town Meeting in NYC (fwd) [Sept. 24] Note for the NY contingent, demonstrating Mondays in front of the NY Public Library: This meeting is on a Monday (2 months way, but . . .). Seth Johnson Wendy Seltzer wrote: > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:59:51 -0400 > From: Jennifer Vinopal > > NINCH Copyright Town Meeting: > > INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AND MULTIMEDIA IN THE DIGITAL AGE > > September 24, 2001 > The New York Public Library > Celeste Bartos Forum > Fifth Avenue & 42nd Street > > 8:30 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. > > * This all day meeting brings together national experts in the field and > practitioners working in a variety of settings to examine the practical > implications of Intellectual Property issues. _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From david.haworth at altavista.net Sun Aug 5 23:09:21 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why is Sklyarov still in jail? In-Reply-To: <20010804120245.A444@lemuria.org>; from tom@lemuria.org on Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 12:02:45PM +0200 References: <200108040239.VAA12779@adsl-208-191-206-105.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net> <20010804120245.A444@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20010806080921.C3211@3soft.de> On Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 12:02:45PM +0200, Tom wrote: > On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 09:39:58PM -0500, Ed Carp wrote: > > Then this country is in serious trouble when a prisoner can be held for weeks > > without a bail hearing. If memory serves, even the Supreme Court has ruled > > on cases regarding how long one can be held without a hearing, and under what > > circumstances one can be held without bail. This is an absolute crock. > > in most european countries, the time you can be held without seing a > judge is set to 48 or 24 hours. please don't tell me there's nothing > similiar in the CRA (Corporate Republic of America) I think Dmitry was up before a judge on the day of his arrest, or the day after. He was denied bail on grounds of "flight risk" and because he was due to be transferred to San Jose "within 2 weeks" (IIRC). -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From jays at panix.com Sun Aug 5 23:10:59 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NINCH Copyright Town Meeting in NYC (fwd) [Sept. 24] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, John Dempsey wrote: > Hi. > > What is the specific time and address for the Monday NYC ongoing protest? > > John Herewith the notice sent to the LXNY announcements list. oo--JS. Subject: Noon Monday 6 August 2001: Rally to Free Dmitry Sklyarov Noon Monday 6 August 2001 at 41st Street and Fifth Avenue, before the New York Public Library, on the Island of Manhattan, there will be a rally to free Dmitry Sklyarov. Note that this is not an LXNY event, but rather the third of a series of rallies, whose Lead Organizer and First Contact is Leonid Gorkin lgorkin@excite.com or lgorkin1@nyc.rr.com There have been and will be rallies in about twenty cities. http://freesklyarov.org/calendar Much of the organizing of New York City Rallies to Free Dmitry take place on the fairuse mailing list of NYFairUse, which list may be joined at http://www.nyfairuse.org To download a flyer go to: http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/dmitry-links For more information: http://freesklyarov.org http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov http://eff.org http://www.dibona.com/dmca http://www.templetons.com/brad/free.html Why do we rally at the New York Public Library? Because the Association of American Publishers has declared that they plan to close down all free public libraries. Their chosen tool is the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. The DMCA outlaws fair use of books that you, or the library, have bought and paid for: http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36584-2001Feb7.html http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-201-6545588-0.html http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html http://www.fsf.org/philosophy We need marchers and leafleteers and copiers of leaflets and designers of leaflets and propagandizers and lobbyists and lawyers and coders and water carriers and publicists and diplomats. Come to the Rally and help! Come to the Rally and meet allies! Dmitry Sklyarov sits in jail today. Come to the Rally and help get him out! Jay Sulzberger Corresponding Secretary LXNY LXNY is New York's Free Computing Organization. http://www.lxny.org > > -----Original Message----- > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Seth Johnson > Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 8:42 PM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] NINCH Copyright Town Meeting in NYC (fwd) > [Sept. 24] > > > > Note for the NY contingent, demonstrating Mondays in front of the NY > Public Library: This meeting is on a Monday (2 months way, but . . .). > > Seth Johnson > > Wendy Seltzer wrote: > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:59:51 -0400 > > From: Jennifer Vinopal > > > > NINCH Copyright Town Meeting: > > > > INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AND MULTIMEDIA IN THE DIGITAL AGE > > > > September 24, 2001 > > The New York Public Library > > Celeste Bartos Forum > > Fifth Avenue & 42nd Street > > > > 8:30 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. > > > > * This all day meeting brings together national experts in the field and > > practitioners working in a variety of settings to examine the practical > > implications of Intellectual Property issues. > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From ashot at aha.ru Sun Aug 5 23:17:36 2001 From: ashot at aha.ru (Ashot Oganesyan K.) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: boycottadobe.com logo References: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D45E1@sfc-exmail1> Message-ID: <022801c11e3f$7e1df530$05019696@smartline.ru> Hello, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carrie Kirby" To: Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:03 PM Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Re: boycottadobe.com logo > i've seen dmitry's age as 26 and 27 in various places. can anyone give me an > authoritative answer on which it is? it's for the chronicle article. He is 26, his birthday in December. With best wishes, Ashot. _______________________________________ Ashot Oganesyan K. SmartLine, Inc E-mail: ashot@protect-me.com www.ntutility.com - Software for Windows 2000/NT Lifetime ASP Member _______________________________________ From jays at panix.com Sun Aug 5 23:21:19 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [ebook-device] Re: Greetings and hello (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 06:14:56 -0000 From: jmellen@cfl.rr.com Reply-To: ebook-device@yahoogroups.com To: ebook-device@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ebook-device] Re: Greetings and hello Being one of these newcomers, I'll introduce myself. My name is Jason Mellen and I am a high school student in Florida, USA. Looking at the goals of this project, I agree that something like this is needed. With all my files and books, I carry an average of 40 pounds on my back all day. One of my interests is in finding ways to integrate technology into schools to help upgrade our current educational model. As a member of SEUL-EDU I am working to install Linux throughout my school in the next year or two. I look forward to working on the project and hope some good ideas can come of it. Regards, jmellen _________________________ Jason Mellen Palm Bay High School Department Assistant - Vocational Education --- In ebook-device@y..., "Bill Ries-Knight" wrote: > This list was first created as a part of the old e-groups mailing list > regime. It was absobed and now has become a part of the Yahoo realm. > > As of recent days, there have been several new persons, from the realm > of yahoo, that have joined us here on this very quiet list. > > Welcome, and please feel free to toss out a question or subject for > discussion. > > I have arthritis in my hands and can not seem to type very well. > Actually I type well, I just do not have the same sensations in my > hands and the naughty keybord tosses out all kinds of errors at times. > > Again, welcome and post away. > > Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/0XFolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Community email addresses: Post message: ebook-device@onelist.com Subscribe: ebook-device-subscribe@onelist.com Unsubscribe: ebook-device-unsubscribe@onelist.com List owner: ebook-device-owner@onelist.com Shortcut URL to this page: http://www.linuxhelpers.org/ebook-device/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Sun Aug 5 23:42:05 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NINCH Copyright Town Meeting in NYC (fwd) [Sept. 24] References: Message-ID: <3B6E3C3D.6257654F@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> We meet at 12:00, 41st Street and 5th Avenue, right in front of the steps. Seth Johnson John Dempsey wrote: > > What is the specific time and address for the Monday NYC ongoing protest? From david.haworth at altavista.net Mon Aug 6 00:31:21 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fair use "rights" In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010805153335.00ab7378@mail.jlizard.com>; from sklyarov@openwire.com on Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 05:15:35PM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010805153335.00ab7378@mail.jlizard.com> Message-ID: <20010806093121.A3285@3soft.de> On Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 05:15:35PM -0700, Jay Allen wrote: > The second thing you may notice about this is that it does not confer upon > the consumer any right, but instead a protection from any action > (prosecution) under this statute. Producers of copyrighted works are never > under any obligation to allow you to sample, backup, copy, etc their work > (as they are, by the way, in Russia), however, the law allows you to do so > without fear of prosecution. It's a fine point, I know, but it seems that > there are no such things as fair use _rights_ or personal use > _rights_. Uses such as these are simply protected under a safe harbor > provision. It seems to me that there's a bigger concept of "fair use" than the rather limited "defence to copyright infringement" that the AAP-extremists put about in their marketing BS. For example, when I buy a book there are many things that I expect to be able to do with that book, without restraint from the publisher or author. For example: - I can read the book wherever and whenever I like, and as many times as I like. - I can lend the book to my friends - I can give the book away when I've finished with it - I can _sell_ the book when I've finished with it None of these activities infringes copyright, but they might all be classified under a broad umbrella of "fair use". The problem with the current law is that in the name of "copyright protection", the publishers are preventing some or all of these fair uses. They have no right to do so, but the public has no right to claim back their fair use because the tools to do so have been made illegal. Is there any equivalent of the UK's "Trade Descriptions Act" in the US? That law makes it illegal for advertisers to make unfounded claims about their products. Perhaps the description of this crippleware as "book" would be illegal under that law. Another line of attack would be the advertising to the general public of these eBook readers having "security". Not how good the security is (although those claims might even be illegal), but the implication that the security somehow protects the consumer, when in fact it acts against him as "owner" (and I use the term somewhat sarcastically) of the eBook. -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From kmself at ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 6 01:21:47 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fair use "rights" In-Reply-To: <20010806093121.A3285@3soft.de>; from david.haworth@altavista.net on Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 09:31:21AM +0200 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010805153335.00ab7378@mail.jlizard.com> <20010806093121.A3285@3soft.de> Message-ID: <20010806012147.D25029@navel.introspect> on Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 09:31:21AM +0200, David Haworth (david.haworth@altavista.net) wrote: > On Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 05:15:35PM -0700, Jay Allen wrote: > > The second thing you may notice about this is that it does not confer upon > > the consumer any right, but instead a protection from any action > > (prosecution) under this statute. Producers of copyrighted works are never > > under any obligation to allow you to sample, backup, copy, etc their work > > (as they are, by the way, in Russia), however, the law allows you to do so > > without fear of prosecution. It's a fine point, I know, but it seems that > > there are no such things as fair use _rights_ or personal use > > _rights_. Uses such as these are simply protected under a safe harbor > > provision. > > It seems to me that there's a bigger concept of "fair use" than the rather > limited "defence to copyright infringement" that the AAP-extremists put > about in their marketing BS. > > For example, when I buy a book there are many things that I expect to > be able to do with that book, without restraint from the publisher or > author. For example: > > - I can read the book wherever and whenever I like, and as many times > as I like. > - I can lend the book to my friends > - I can give the book away when I've finished with it > - I can _sell_ the book when I've finished with it > > None of these activities infringes copyright, but they might all be classified > under a broad umbrella of "fair use". See "First sale doctrine". -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010806/7ae6b0b2/attachment.pgp From tom at lemuria.org Mon Aug 6 01:44:47 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] My friend's WIPO fight In-Reply-To: <3B6E0389.287D9CF3@goingware.com>; from crawford@goingware.com on Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 10:40:09PM -0400 References: <3B6E0389.287D9CF3@goingware.com> Message-ID: <20010806104447.B13317@lemuria.org> On Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 10:40:09PM -0400, mike wrote: > I friend of mine who registered afm.com for the legitimate purpose of > developing his own ecommerce business on the site is fighting a WIPO > action by afma.com, the american film marketing association. how many "American [something] Association" /are/ there? RIAA,MPAA,AAP,AFMA,MAFIA - wait, that last one is italian. From jono at microshaft.org Mon Aug 6 01:53:43 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WTO, TRIPS and patentable Micro-organisms Message-ID: <20010806015342.Y84824@networkcommand.com> Looks like Stallman's points about Free Software and it's relation to Freedom are beginning to take shape: International Chamber of Commerce: http://www.iccwbo.org/home/intellectual_property/tripse.asp Another very interesting document: http://www.ustr.gov/pdf/special.pdf Interesting snippets: Courts must be granted the ability to order unannounced raids in appropriate cases to determine whether infringement is taking place and to preserve evidence of infringements Argentina refuses to recognize micro-organisms as patentable. ..questions remain whether sufficient legal authority exists *as required* by the TRIPS Agreement for civil ex parte search procedures. Macau's courts have implemented a special expedited prosecution system that allows a suspect to be brought immediately to trial. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Provides real world examples of trade disputes and IP enforcement in other countries. One scary point, Argentina refuses to recognize micro-organisms as patentable. This is something most people have not thought of or at least in terms of designing an animal and then having full rights to it. Now, if Monsanto sticks some star link corn in the field next to mine and the wind blows causing the corn to intermingle, it would seem that mother nature herself is trafficing in a circumvention device and should be arrested. Ok, so there are way too many examples of circumvention devices. This seems to confirm the fact that the law is a joke. However, there are some other more significant issues to this "Gobal IP Domination Regime" which we are currently experiencing. The US Patent process is getting out of control as I'm sure you are all aware. Well, take a look at this statement from the document cited above: ..and it [Brazil] has significantly increased the rate at which it processes regular patent applications. We are all seeing how there are many stupid patent claims being thrown around here in the US. Much of them seem to come from a faster, less detailed review of patents filed. Well, here you can see the WTO or however commending Brazil for speeding up the patent process. As we all know patents on Genetic data are very important to the pharms and drug companies. All of these actions will lead to a single conclusion -- those who have, have more. Those who do not, won't. This may seem off-topic, but it is all very much related once you start looking at the broader picture. There is also some interesting issues here: U.S. Intellectual Property Law Goes Global http://slashdot.org/articles/01/05/15/2138208.shtml From jono at microshaft.org Mon Aug 6 02:00:51 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fair use "rights" In-Reply-To: <20010806012147.D25029@navel.introspect>; from kmself@ix.netcom.com on Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 01:21:47AM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010805153335.00ab7378@mail.jlizard.com> <20010806093121.A3285@3soft.de> <20010806012147.D25029@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <20010806020050.Z84824@networkcommand.com> On 06-Aug-2001, Karsten M. Self wrote: > on Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 09:31:21AM +0200, David Haworth (david.haworth@altavista.net) wrote: > > On Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 05:15:35PM -0700, Jay Allen wrote: > > > The second thing you may notice about this is that it does not confer upon > > > the consumer any right, but instead a protection from any action > > > (prosecution) under this statute. Producers of copyrighted works are never > > > under any obligation to allow you to sample, backup, copy, etc their work > > > (as they are, by the way, in Russia), however, the law allows you to do so > > > without fear of prosecution. It's a fine point, I know, but it seems that > > > there are no such things as fair use _rights_ or personal use > > > _rights_. Uses such as these are simply protected under a safe harbor > > > provision. > > > > It seems to me that there's a bigger concept of "fair use" than the rather > > limited "defence to copyright infringement" that the AAP-extremists put > > about in their marketing BS. > > > > For example, when I buy a book there are many things that I expect to > > be able to do with that book, without restraint from the publisher or > > author. For example: > > > > - I can read the book wherever and whenever I like, and as many times > > as I like. > > - I can lend the book to my friends > > - I can give the book away when I've finished with it > > - I can _sell_ the book when I've finished with it > > > > None of these activities infringes copyright, but they might all be classified > > under a broad umbrella of "fair use". > > See "First sale doctrine". > > Ooops, looks like they found a loophole or something like that: http://www.iccwbo.org/home/statements_rules/statements/2000/exhaustion_of_intellectual_property_rights.asp The concept of exhaustion of intellectual property rights is of great importance to companies because it influences the extent to which the distribution of goods protected by their intellectual property rights can be controlled. According to the exhaustion concept, once an intellectual property right holder has sold a product to which its intellectual property rights are attached, it cannot prohibit the subsequent resale of that product as his intellectual property rights in that product are said to have been "exhausted" by the first sale. He will however be able to *prevent importation of goods sold abroad* under a different jurisdiction, even if they had been sold with his authorization (parallel imports). Under a regime of regional exhaustion such as the one applicable within the European Union, the right to control re-sale of goods sold with the consent of the rightholder is exhausted within that particular region only. From david.haworth at altavista.net Mon Aug 6 02:19:45 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Does Adobe's EBook reader actually prevent copying? Message-ID: <20010806111945.A3343@3soft.de> Can someone with more knowledge than I have confirm or deny this? I suggest that Adobe's ebook reader doesn't actually prevent copying. If you install a (legally bought) copy of Windows in a vmware virtual machine, install the ebook reader on that virtual machine and then buy one or more ebooks keyed to that virtual machine - what happens if you transfer the entire virtual drive (just a file to the host OS) to another machine that runs vmware? Does it work? The reason I'm asking is that I believe Dmitry was arrested on unsubstantiated complaints from Adobe. The FBI guy who made the arrest took the original complaint from Adobe, made one or two cursory checks (yes, the software is downloadable, yes, it removes protections from the files) but didn't actually check Adobe's other claims - "the eBook reader protects the book from copying" being a prime example. There's an argument that the eBook reader works "when used as intended" (that's like saying "this insurance policy protects your car against theft unless someone actually steals it") - but if it's possible to use standard widely-available programs to circumvent the "protection", it destroys any shred of truth in Adobe's claims. Now, what are the penalties for making flase claims leading to a wrongful arrest ??? -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From david.haworth at altavista.net Mon Aug 6 02:32:25 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fair use "rights" In-Reply-To: <20010806020050.Z84824@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 02:00:51AM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010805153335.00ab7378@mail.jlizard.com> <20010806093121.A3285@3soft.de> <20010806012147.D25029@navel.introspect> <20010806020050.Z84824@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010806113225.B3343@3soft.de> On Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 02:00:51AM -0700, Jon O . wrote: [Re: "First sale doctrine".] > > Ooops, looks like they found a loophole or something like that: The exhaustion of rights still applies inside (say) the US. What it means is that if I buy a book, or a CD, or whatever, the publisher has no right to control what I subsequently do with my book or CD (to be more exact, what I do with the physical copy that I originally bought). Which means that I can lend it to whoever I choose, or give it away, or even sell it, as long as I only do it within the country (or region) where I originally bought it. However, I can't do that with an eBook, because the access control restrictions prevent me from transferring it from one computer to another. I could circumvent those access control restrictions to make the transfer (again, perfectly legal), but I can't get the tools I need to do so because of the DMCA. The publishers are therefore using the DMCA to claim "rights" to which they aren't entitled. Some might argue that the publishers are acting illegally by circumventing the first-sale doctrine. Is it enshrined in law? -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From nbhs2 at i-2000.com Mon Aug 6 03:03:02 2001 From: nbhs2 at i-2000.com (Michael Scottaline) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fair use "rights" In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010805204704.00ace1a0@mail.jlizard.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010805153335.00ab7378@mail.jlizard.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20010805204704.00ace1a0@mail.jlizard.com> Message-ID: <20010806060302.3f86bfa9.nbhs2@i-2000.com> On Sun, 05 Aug 2001 21:10:51 -0700 Jay Allen insightfully noted: J JA> What's the difference between a right and "something you JA> can't be JA> prosecuted for"? I'd say that it would be the ease with which it can JA> change. 218 Representatives, 51 Senators and one President go for a JA> hell JA> of a lot less (as far as the MPAA/RIAA are concerned) than one JA> Constitutional amendment. :-) Without a right--a Constitutional JA> right, if JA> you prefer-one little amendment to Title 17 and >poof<. ==================================== Our Founding Fathers were mostly believers in _Natural Rights_. In other words, it wasn't necessary to state the Free Speech was a right. It just was. The First Amendment prohibition against legislating limitations on Free Speech was viewed as a safeguard in an age where governments regularly infringed upon peoples _Natural Rights_. In other words, Free Speech is not an American "right", but one with which all people are endowed by their creator [or nature, if you prefer]. Unlike most 20th century Constitutions or Bills of rights, the US Bill of Rights list "rights of abstinence". The government must *abstain* from from infringing on such rights. The first five words of the Bill of Rights are most informative here. 20th Century documents seem to list *rights of affirmation*, i.e., what governments MUST provide people with. To the Framers, Free Speech was absolutely fundamental. It was not merely a question of "well we won't bother to prosecute anyuone for exercising it." Mike -- "I decry the current tendency to seek patents on algorithms. There are better ways to earn a living than to prevent other people from making use of one's contributions to computer science." -- Donald E. Knuth, TAoCP vol 3 From crism at maden.org Mon Aug 6 06:50:55 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fwd: Courtroom pointers Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010806064841.00a547a0@mail.maden.org> Rob's dad is a federal judge, and he gets picky about this stuff. (-: -crism >From: "Robert J. Hansen" >To: "Christopher R. Maden" >Subject: Courtroom pointers >Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 06:50:19 -0700 > >Please forward this on to the Free-Sklyarov mailing list. I don't know how >many of the people who are going to show up will have had any experience >with courtrooms outside of _Night Court_ reruns and old Perry Mason >episodes. Still, better be safe than sorry. > >========== > >Courtroom Etiquette > >DO: > * Be quiet. Don't make noise in the gallery, no matter what the >provocation or need. If you absolutely must say something, then write it >down on a piece of paper. > > * Pay attention to the instructions of the Clerk of Court. > > * Turn off your cellphone and pager. If your occupation absolutely >requires you to be available, set your gear to vibrate instead of ring. >Don't ever use a cellphone in the courtroom; if it's an emergency call that >you absolutely must take, then just get up and quietly leave the courtroom. > > * Once you're out, stay out. Judges don't like to see people walking in >and out of the courtroom while court's in session. > > * Use the restroom before you go in. Bail hearings are usually routine >matters, but every now and again they turn into three-hour marathons. > > >DON'T: > * Distract anyone. Dmitry and his lawyer have a hard enough time ahead >of them without being distracted by friendly waves and shows of support. >You being there is going to show plenty of support by itself. > > * Bring food or drink into the courtroom. > > * Bring a camera. IT IS A VIOLATION OF FEDERAL LAW TO TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS >IN A COURTROOM WITHOUT THE JUDGE'S PRIOR APPROVAL. Unless you want to wind >up sharing a cell with Dmitry, leave the cameras at home! > > * Disrupt other trials. Remember that when you're moving through the >courthouse, other courtrooms are already hearing cases. Keep the noise >level to a minimum so as not to disturb other trials. From bobds at blorch.org Mon Aug 6 07:01:13 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fair use "rights" In-Reply-To: <20010806093121.A3285@3soft.de> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010805153335.00ab7378@mail.jlizard.com> <20010806093121.A3285@3soft.de> Message-ID: <01080607011300.29281@bitworks> On Monday 06 August 2001 00:31, you wrote: > be able to do with that book, without restraint from the publisher or > author. For example: > > - I can read the book wherever and whenever I like, and as many times > as I like. > - I can lend the book to my friends > - I can give the book away when I've finished with it > - I can _sell_ the book when I've finished with it In fact, software people historically referred to this as the "like a book" license (install only on one machine or for one user at a time, but freely transferrable other than that). The fact that this became a colloquial analogy shows just how universally the concept was understood. Back then, anyway. -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From thedward at barsoom.net Mon Aug 6 07:30:15 2001 From: thedward at barsoom.net (the Edward Blevins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Does Adobe's EBook reader actually prevent copying? In-Reply-To: <20010806111945.A3343@3soft.de>; from david.haworth@altavista.net on Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 11:19:45AM +0200 References: <20010806111945.A3343@3soft.de> Message-ID: <20010806093014.N26947@barsoom.net> On Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 11:19:45AM +0200, David Haworth wrote: > Can someone with more knowledge than I have confirm or deny this? > > I suggest that Adobe's ebook reader doesn't actually prevent copying. > If you install a (legally bought) copy of Windows in a vmware virtual > machine, install the ebook reader on that virtual machine and then buy > one or more ebooks keyed to that virtual machine - what happens if > you transfer the entire virtual drive (just a file to the host OS) > to another machine that runs vmware? Does it work? If it works, they'll probably come arrest you. You just demonstrated that vmware could be used as a circumvention device and is therefore illegal. Hide your copies, folks. If things don't get "fixed", and things keep heading in the wrong direction, they'll have to outlaw free (as in speech) software, and heck, you'll probably have to have a government license to have a compiler (and of course you won't get source to THAT). -- the Edward Blevins (512) 436-9576 /(0\ mi tavla fo la lojban .i xu do go'i? \1)/ .i.e'u ko vitke fi zoi .url. http://www.lojban.org .url. Today is Pungenday, the 72nd day of Confusion, 3167. From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Aug 6 07:35:20 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hillary Rosen supports competition, opposes regulation Message-ID: <20010806073520.C11634@zork.net> "The bill substitutes government regulation for the marketplace. This is not only wrong, it is also inconsistent with the strongly held views of experts and the private sector that government regulation of the Internet would be a disastrous mistake." (via TLJ) Great, I look forward to her opposition to future bills mandating DRM. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 I'm looking for work: http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/resume.html From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Aug 6 07:39:19 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] My friend's WIPO fight In-Reply-To: <20010806104447.B13317@lemuria.org>; from tom@lemuria.org on Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 10:44:47AM +0200 References: <3B6E0389.287D9CF3@goingware.com> <20010806104447.B13317@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20010806073919.D11634@zork.net> Tom writes: > On Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 10:40:09PM -0400, mike wrote: > > I friend of mine who registered afm.com for the legitimate purpose of > > developing his own ecommerce business on the site is fighting a WIPO > > action by afma.com, the american film marketing association. > > how many "American [something] Association" /are/ there? There are hundreds of industry, scientific, and professional associations that have "American" and "Association" in their names. http://www.google.com/search?q=american+association I can think of about 10 others outside of the copyright industries, but there are hundreds. -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe I'm looking for work: http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/resume.html From moeller at scireview.de Mon Aug 6 08:31:23 2001 From: moeller at scireview.de (Erik Moeller) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Lessig on WIPO (short) Message-ID: <3B6ED46B.29865.EAF6D@localhost> Here's the reply I got from Larry Lessig on the relevance of the WIPO Copyright Treaty to the issues discussed on the list, my original mail is also quoted below. For more on WIPO, see my summary: http://www.infoanarchy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/8/4/53534/20827 ------- Forwarded message follows ------- Date sent: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 19:47:50 -0700 Subject: Re: WIPO Copyright Treaty From: Lawrence Lessig To: Erik Moeller The treaty does push for DMCA like legislation, but most nations (even those ratifying the treaty) have not yet enacted DMCA legislation. I think the WIPO treaty should be opposed, so I do think it would be good to identify this as a problem. -- Lessig Stanford Law School Crown Quadrangle 559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610 650.736.0999 (vx) 650.723.8440 (fx) 415.430.1269 x7727 (e fax) mailto:lessig@pobox.com > From: "Erik Moeller" > Organization: Scientific Review Service > Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 07:44:31 +0200 > To: lessig@eff.org > Subject: WIPO Copyright Treaty > > Dear Professor Lessig, > > as a legal expert who is familiar with the Sklyarov case, what do > you think about the WIPO Copyright Treaty? As far as I understand > it, it is the direct "cause" of the DMCA and similar international > laws and was agreed on by delegates of the WIPO member nations > during the December 1996 meeting. > > But member nations seem to have no actual obligation to enforce the > treaty, and it could in fact be denounced with no consequences. Do > you think it would make sense to > > - denounce the 1996 WIPO Copyright Treaty and replace the DMCA with > more reasonable national law / repeal it - protest at the next WIPO > copyright meeting (Nov 26-30 in Geneva) - submit papers to the WIPO > convention - get organizations like the EFF to participate in the > convention? > > I think WIPO may be a better target than the national goverments, > since they specifically deal with these issues. What do you think? > > > Regards, > > Erik Moeller > > > > -- > Scientific Reviewer, Freelancer, Humanist -- Berlin/Germany > Phone: +49-30-45491008 - Web: > The Origins of Peace and Violence: > > "History is full of people who, out of fear or ignorance or the lust > for power, have destroyed treasures of immeasurable value which > truly belong to all of us. We must not let it happen again." -- Carl > Sagan > ------- End of forwarded message ------- -- Scientific Reviewer, Freelancer, Humanist -- Berlin/Germany Phone: +49-30-45491008 - Web: The Origins of Peace and Violence: "History is full of people who, out of fear or ignorance or the lust for power, have destroyed treasures of immeasurable value which truly belong to all of us. We must not let it happen again." -- Carl Sagan From admin at seattle-chat.com Mon Aug 6 08:49:24 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] My friend's WIPO fight In-Reply-To: <20010806073919.D11634@zork.net> Message-ID: Well if afm stands for the name of his company, and it's not in the film industry, then there's not much afma can do about it, because it would not be confusing to the consumer. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Seth David Schoen Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 7:39 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] My friend's WIPO fight Tom writes: > On Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 10:40:09PM -0400, mike wrote: > > I friend of mine who registered afm.com for the legitimate purpose of > > developing his own ecommerce business on the site is fighting a WIPO > > action by afma.com, the american film marketing association. > > how many "American [something] Association" /are/ there? There are hundreds of industry, scientific, and professional associations that have "American" and "Association" in their names. http://www.google.com/search?q=american+association I can think of about 10 others outside of the copyright industries, but there are hundreds. -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe I'm looking for work: http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/resume.html _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From mkbilbo at cdcla.com Mon Aug 6 09:33:12 2001 From: mkbilbo at cdcla.com (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fair use "rights" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010805153335.00ab7378@mail.jlizard.com><5.1.0.14.2.20010805204704.00ace1a0@mail.jlizard.com> <20010806060302.3f86bfa9.nbhs2@i-2000.com> Message-ID: <004501c11e95$7c37b2f0$3088d790@tti.com> The intent of the Founders is overlooked (if not overtly ignored) often these days in any discussion of rights. The more I read of what Jefferson (and Madison) said about copyright, what emerges is that the current discussion is a total inversion of what the Founders intended. That is, copyright and patent are the "privileges." There's a social contract involved here in that we, the people, grant a monopoly to a creator of art or science or such for a LIMITED time to encourage them to do such work. A reward for creating something new that benefits society at large. These grants of monopoly were intended to reward the creative among us for contributing to the overall good of society. They were never intended to be "property" style "rights." In fact, I cannot find ANYTHING that leads me to believe the Founders considered copyright (and such) protections to be a "right" AT ALL. Further, Jefferson expressed many ideas that fit the Internet and the Free Software/Open Source movements, commenting that when ideas (information) are shared, the creator loses nothing in the exchange. He eschewed the very thought that you could "steal" an idea, eschewed any comparison with property. It apparently took many years before Jefferson came "on board" with the idea of EVER granting monopolies such as copyright. He had serious misgivings about the idea and thought it was probably a bad idea to have such things at all. Even when he accepted that it might be a useful idea to grant temporary monopolies, he advocated a very restrictive amendment to the Constitution that would limit such grants to a specific, non-renewable term. Unfortunately, the amendent never went anywhere. From robertl1 at home.com Mon Aug 6 10:07:25 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fair use "rights" In-Reply-To: <004501c11e95$7c37b2f0$3088d790@tti.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010805153335.00ab7378@mail.jlizard.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20010805204704.00ace1a0@mail.jlizard.com> <20010806060302.3f86bfa9.nbhs2@i-2000.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010806100416.02821ec0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> At 09:33 AM 8/6/01 -0700, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: >The intent of the Founders is overlooked (if not overtly ignored) often >these days in any discussion of rights. The more I read of what Jefferson >(and Madison) said about copyright, what emerges is that the current >discussion is a total inversion of what the Founders intended. I read this with real interest. I admit to serious ignorance of these views and would like to know more. Could you provide some links or should I just drop "Jefferson copyright" into Google? Bob La Quey From mkbilbo at cdcla.com Mon Aug 6 10:20:53 2001 From: mkbilbo at cdcla.com (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Your AAP Membership Message-ID: <007401c11e9c$2662dfb0$3088d790@tti.com> Editors, Once again, I am writing about my concerns over your association with the American Association of Publishers. According to their website at: http://www.publishers.org/home/abouta/members.htm#s Scientific American is a member of the AAP. I cannot describe how deeply dismayed I am that a reputable publication of science is a member of an organization so hostile towards intellectual freedom. The statements of the organization, particularly their celebratory press release concerning the Sklyarov arrest (found at: http://www.publishers.org/home/press/index.htm) and the comparison of librarians to "Ruby Ridge" style extremists (found at: http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-201-6545588-0.html), show a distinct hostility toward intellectual freedm--an essential to science and human progress. The AAP has taken a pro-DMCA stance and a very pro-corporate profit stance. Positions that threaten the basic freedoms of the US as regards the free flow of information and scientific inquiry. Positions that only serve to enhance the profits of media corporations at the expense of the rights of citizens. As you know, we in the United States are already having serious trouble educating the public in the sciences. How can the DMCA and other such restrictions enable us to curtail or reverse the very serious decline in science education? If publishing corporations destroy fair use rights as they seek to do, if libraries become "pay per view," and research in such fields as cryptography becomes criminalized, what will become of science and science education? I would hope that Scientific American would live up to its commitment to intellectual freedom and withdraw from the AAP so long as the organization takes such extremist, anti-intellectual positions. I simply cannot fathom why Scientific American would fund an organization that has set itself on a course of destroying fair use and the free flow of information for what appears to be nothing more than the desire to sate the increasing greed of short sighted media corporations. Mark K. Bilbo From mkbilbo at cdcla.com Mon Aug 6 10:27:50 2001 From: mkbilbo at cdcla.com (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Natural Allies... Message-ID: <001101c11e9d$1e9a6c20$3088d790@tti.com> I think we should look into ways of becoming allies with the American Library Association. We're fighting the same fights against the DMCA and other oppressive legislation. I'd hope to persuade librarians to "come on board" in the fight to Free Dmitry and end the DMCA. Mark http://www.ala.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Welcome to ALA.url Type: application/octet-stream Size: 109 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010806/cd513f84/WelcometoALA.obj From ed at hintz.org Mon Aug 6 10:22:00 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Ed Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing Message-ID: <200108061823.f76INPc16490@phil.hintz.org> From corbet-fs at lwn.net Mon Aug 6 07:51:16 2001 From: corbet-fs at lwn.net (Jonathan Corbet) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Article: Economist: But Dmitry did no wong In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 05 Aug 2001 17:47:33 PDT." <20010805174733.A28002@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <20010806145116.2433.qmail@eklektix.com> > A clumsy law lands a Russian programmer in an American jail > http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=3DS%26%28%28%28%25PQ%5B%= > 27%0A > > This is in the paid/print-only section, I've not read it, but the > summary looks promising. It is a brief but worthwhile article. It goes briefly into the Felten case as well. Exercising my fair use rights: Beards drooping in the summer fog, 150 computer programmers took to the streets in San Francisco on July 30th to make a protest outside the federal court building.... Mr. Sklyarov's arrest proved a flashpoint, and it set off such a storm of protest that a week later Adobe changed its mind and called on the FBI to release him. Firms may be more susceptible to such public pressure than the government. The federal attorney's office has said that it intends to pursue the prosecution, and support for the DMCA is strong in Congress, where the entertainment industry has lobbied hard. Predictably, at www.freesklyarov.org, the schedule for more protests is getting longer. And rightly so. jon Jonathan Corbet Executive editor, LWN.net corbet@lwn.net From sisgeek at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 11:43:59 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing In-Reply-To: <200108061823.f76INPc16490@phil.hintz.org> Message-ID: <20010806184359.5225.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> :) :) :) --- Ed Hintz wrote: > From the courtroom via palm... Pardon my graffitti > and spelling. > > Present for the defense: > Joe Burton - lead counsel > Steve Sutro - assoc. counsel > Marina Serebidnaya (sp ?) - immigration counsel > > approx 40 - 50 supporters and assorted press in the > courtroom > > another 30 - 40 protestors on the street out front > > Dima is in the house-gave him a thumbs up. wearing > santa clara co jail outfit. Somber and respectful. > > compliant is sealed > > hon infante read charges and miranda rights > > da calls him flight risk- w bail, weekley check in > and custodial care. Judge asks about immigration > staus > burton says this is being worked on. Explains Dimas > history and family status calls them impeccable. Has > refs from professors and such in moscow. Elcomsoft > will pay bail. Docs added to record. Court will > issue release w/bail place to stay and travec > limition to n. Cal. And weekly check in. Prelim > hearing 8 23 01 judge Seaborg. Sergi Osokine is > custodial person present in court. Cupertino > resident of 8 years. Court accepts custodian. > Counsel submits cash posting for bail. Dima signs. > cuffs removed. gov wants to keep passport. Judge > says ok if INS is cool. > > looks like he will need to process out of sc jail > but should soon be out of prison. > > bail amount set at $50k > > Regards, > > Ed Hintz > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Aug 6 11:49:32 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [Scott.Jaschik@chronicle.com: [dvd-discuss] online discussion about DMCA and academe] Message-ID: <20010806114932.I11634@zork.net> Vivant professores! ----- Forwarded message from Scott.Jaschik@chronicle.com ----- From: Scott.Jaschik@chronicle.com To: dvd-discuss@eon.law.harvard.edu Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 07:45:22 -0400 Subject: [dvd-discuss] online discussion about DMCA and academe The Chronicle of Higher Education is sponsoring an online discussion this week about whether the Digital Millennium Copyright Act infringes on the First Amendment and academic freedom. The discussion is based in part on an article in the new issue of The Chronicle about how professors are reacting to the act. The Chronicle invites members of this list to read the article and to join the discussion at: http://www.chronicle.com/colloquy/2001/dmca/dmca.htm Scott Jaschik Editor The Chronicle of Higher Education ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe I'm looking for work: http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/resume.html From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Aug 6 11:52:25 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [sneakums@zork.net: [CrackMonkey] Dumb quote of the day] Message-ID: <20010806115225.K11634@zork.net> "Some years ago -- never mind how long precisely -- copyrights used to expire." ----- Forwarded message from Sean Neakums ----- To: It was like that when I got here From: Sean Neakums Subject: [CrackMonkey] Dumb quote of the day Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 17:46:41 +0100 Courtesy of Robin * Slomkowski: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2001/08/06/BU209590.DTL > Book publishers say they need a tough law like the Digital > Millennium Copyright Act or they'll never be able to make money > selling electronic books. If programmers are allowed to crack eBook > encryption, the next Napster-style trading system will be exchanging > copies of "Moby Dick" instead of songs by Moby, they warn. -- "Love and understanding are the ultimate crimes." -- Eamon de Valera _______________________________________________ CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From kfoss at planetpdf.com Mon Aug 6 11:58:37 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing In-Reply-To: <20010806184359.5225.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010806184359.5225.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/tech/032216.htm From xeni at xeni.net Mon Aug 6 12:03:52 2001 From: xeni at xeni.net (Xeni Jardin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry released on $50K bail In-Reply-To: <001101c11e9d$1e9a6c20$3088d790@tti.com> Message-ID: Monday August 6, 2:46 pm Eastern Time Russian hacker released on bail after U.S. arrest SAN JOSE, Aug 6 (Reuters) - Russian software programmer Dimitry Sklyarov, whose July 16 arrest on U.S. copyright charges provoked a firestorm of debate over Internet free speech, was released on $50,000 bail on Monday by a California court. Sklyarov, 26, was released into the custody of Sergei Osokine of nearby Cupertino, Calif., after his Moscow-based company, ElcomSoft Co., put up the $50,000 bond, court officials said. Sklyarov appeared in court for the bail hearing, looking tired and wearing orange prison-issued clothing. Outside the court, a small group of protesters demonstrated, saying his arrest was a violation of free speech rights. Sklyarov's arrest on July 16 at a Las Vegas hackers convention made him the first person to be prosecuted under the controversial U.S. Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), which bans the creation or distribution of technology that can be used to circumvent copyright protection. Sklyarov wrote a program that allows people who purchase books in digital form and use Adobe Systems Inc.'s eBook Reader to make and transfer copies of the book -- legal under Russian law, but a violation of the DMCA. From jsheldon at rochester.rr.com Mon Aug 6 12:09:37 2001 From: jsheldon at rochester.rr.com (Jason Sheldon) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry released on $50K bail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01080615093702.01014@neo> > Sklyarov wrote a program that allows people who purchase books in > digital form and use Adobe Systems Inc.'s eBook Reader to make and > transfer copies of the book -- legal under Russian law, but a > violation of the DMCA. > What ever happened to being innocent until proven guilty? It has yet to be determined what Sklyarov did was a violation of the DMCA! This is what we are up against - bad reporting! J From sisgeek at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 12:18:20 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] National Petition to US Attorney's Office Draft Submission In-Reply-To: <20010805192021.X11634@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010806191820.90732.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com> seth these are weasel words which add nothing and detract allot from the simple straight forward demand - drop the charges, period. there are a hundred "grave concerns" with this special interest law foist upon the public - all will be covered in the many fact sheets (and scholarly analysis) over the coming days! --- Seth David Schoen wrote: > seth writes: > > I would suggest adding, after "unwarranted.", "We > believe that his > prosecution is not in the public's interest" and > possibly ", and is > of grave concern [or ________] to scientists > worldwide who consider > visiting the United States to share their knowledge > at conferences". > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ben at kalifornia.com Mon Aug 6 12:33:00 2001 From: ben at kalifornia.com (Ben Ford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why is Sklyarov still in jail? References: Message-ID: <3B6EF0EC.6090403@kalifornia.com> Peter wrote: >2 weeks without bail is not very long. Kevin Mitnik was sitting in >jail 4 1/2 years without bail or trail. >Peter > And you don't think there is anything wrong with that? -b -- Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are going to burn in Hell forever. From declan at well.com Mon Aug 6 12:44:26 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry released on $50K bail In-Reply-To: <01080615093702.01014@neo>; from jsheldon@rochester.rr.com on Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 03:09:37PM -0400 References: <01080615093702.01014@neo> Message-ID: <20010806154425.A3069@cluebot.com> We have a report up: http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45870,00.html On Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 03:09:37PM -0400, Jason Sheldon wrote: > > Sklyarov wrote a program that allows people who purchase books in > > digital form and use Adobe Systems Inc.'s eBook Reader to make and > > transfer copies of the book -- legal under Russian law, but a > > violation of the DMCA. > > > > What ever happened to being innocent until proven guilty? It has yet to be > determined what Sklyarov did was a violation of the DMCA! This is what we > are up against - bad reporting! > > J > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From byoungvt at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 12:41:28 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Pictures Message-ID: <20010806194128.53514.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> I have pictures from today at http://sjrally.n3.net no thyumbs yet but nice photos!!!!! Congradulation All at least he is out of jail (for now!!!!) BJY From callahanpb at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 12:46:49 2001 From: callahanpb at yahoo.com (Paul Callahan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP response quoted in a previous thread In-Reply-To: <20010805170715.C26877@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <20010806194649.31607.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks for posting Adler's response to the ACM letter. It does make it clear (as should already be obvious) that DMCA proponents have a well-thought-out agenda. It's not that they are ignorant of technology. In fact, they know just how easy it is to crack a carelessly designed copy-protection system and this is why they favor criminalization of anti-circumvention software. I see the AAP argument as this: we need laws against the authorship of anti-circumvention tools regardless of their intended use. The cost to society from having them available is too great, since it will allow the easy theft and widespread duplication of any intellectual property in electronic form. Simply prosecuting infringement (already illegal before DMCA) is ineffective. DMCA is intended to augment previous law in order to prevent the proliferation of tools that promote infringement. The legal argument really boils down to whether you believe that the rights of publishers should be extended beyond their de facto status before DMCA. Many here, myself included, believe that there is a fundamental right to fair use that includes selling used books, copying books into a more convenient form for use by the purchaser, and citing text in reviews and so forth. These have historically been enjoyed by the lawful purchasers of IP (readers) and have arguably promoted, not undermined the societal benefits (incentive to produce scholarly work) that are used to justify copyright law in the first place. New encryption technology, if *correctly* implemented, will allow publishers to infringe on these rights, historically enjoyed by readers. Thus, DMCA extends the rights of publishers. So with this in mind, it becomes clear that DMCA is a one-sided law. In a different world, I could be writing a response from the "American Association of Readers": "The very development of copy-protection technology should be criminalized, since its proliferation will make it possible to infringe on the fair use rights of readers. It is not merely enough to prosecute a publisher that sells an ebook without a feature allowing fair use, but even the development of cryptographic copy protection is wrong, since it would so facilitate the ability of publishers to infringe on the reader's fair use rights that there would be no effective recourse. Thus, the law should forbid not only the infringing use of copy-protection technology, but the technology itself." If the suggestion above sounds any more laughable than Mr. Adler's, I can only suggest that this is because we as a society have become accustomed to hearing draconian laws proposed to protect corporate profits from the effects of new technology. But there are also historical civil liberties threatened by technology. While these are sometimes discussed (privacy of financial databases), one rarely hears of new crimes being invented to protect them. E.g., I have heard nothing about the FBI vigorously prosecuting credit card executives who fail to comply with laws demanding that they send privacy rights notification to customers. Personally, I think the DMCA anti-circumvention provision is not only an unjust use of government force, but also a very unrealistic approach to preventing unauthorized copying. Sklyarov was caught precisely because of Elcomsoft's insistence that its business was not violating any law combined with Sklyarov's openness in claiming authorship. It would be virtually impossible to enforce this law against a company that was making any serious effort to evade prosecution. Somehow, the suggestion seems to be that with a sufficiently draconian penalty and relentless enforcement, it will be possible to deter any would-be authors of unauthorized decryption software even if the decryption systems themselves are not intrinsically secure. I would concede that this may be true, but "sufficiently" in this case is at an unprecedented cost to the civil liberties enjoyed in a democratic society. --Paul __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From jsheldon at rochester.rr.com Mon Aug 6 12:50:55 2001 From: jsheldon at rochester.rr.com (Jason Sheldon) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry released on $50K bail In-Reply-To: <20010806154425.A3069@cluebot.com> References: <01080615093702.01014@neo> <20010806154425.A3069@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <01080615505504.01014@neo> Thank You!! Excellent reporting! On Monday 06 August 2001 03:44 pm, Declan McCullagh wrote: > We have a report up: > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45870,00.html > > On Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 03:09:37PM -0400, Jason Sheldon wrote: > > > Sklyarov wrote a program that allows people who purchase books in > > > digital form and use Adobe Systems Inc.'s eBook Reader to make and > > > transfer copies of the book -- legal under Russian law, but a > > > violation of the DMCA. > > > > What ever happened to being innocent until proven guilty? It has yet to > > be determined what Sklyarov did was a violation of the DMCA! This is > > what we are up against - bad reporting! > > > > J From drumz at best.com Mon Aug 6 13:10:43 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP response quoted in a previous thread In-Reply-To: <20010806194649.31607.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com> from Paul Callahan at "Aug 6, 1 12:46:49 pm" Message-ID: <200108062010.NAA20316@shell3.ba.best.com> Paul Callahan writes: > Personally, I think the DMCA anti-circumvention > provision is not only an unjust use of > government force, but also a very unrealistic approach > to preventing unauthorized copying. Sklyarov was > caught precisely because of Elcomsoft's insistence > that its business was not violating any law > combined with Sklyarov's openness in claiming > authorship. It would be virtually impossible to > enforce this law against a company that was making > any serious effort to evade prosecution. > > Somehow, the suggestion seems to > be that with a sufficiently draconian penalty and > relentless enforcement, it will be possible to deter > any would-be authors of unauthorized decryption > software even if the decryption systems themselves > are not intrinsically secure. I would concede that > this may be true, but "sufficiently" in this > case is at an unprecedented cost to the civil > liberties enjoyed in a democratic society. Very much so -- which is why I agree only partially with your statement that DMCA proponents understand the technological issues. They are perceptive enough to recognize that encryption-based DRM is inherently circumventable, but they are *not* perceptive enough to recognize that the Internet makes it well-nigh impossible to prosecute anyone who doesn't want to be prosecuted. Individuals who are technologically savvy enough to compromise encryption systems are, by and large, also technologically savvy enough to share what they've learned anonymously. So why not try to punish them anyway? Because the only way you stand a chance of doing so, once the lessons learned from the 2600 and Sklyarov cases become common knowledge, is to inaugurate a new era in which Echelon-style surveillance is everywhere, the "safe harbor" and "common carrier" defenses for ISPs are nonexistent, and Internet privacy is a thing of the past. Even more than the prosecutions themselves, and the chilling effect on free speech, *this* is what scares me about the DMCA: it's an authoritarian time bomb wrapped in pretty free-market packaging. Ethan From jim at media.mit.edu Mon Aug 6 13:29:57 2001 From: jim at media.mit.edu (Jim Youll) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry photo Message-ID: <200108062029.QAA28156@dns2.newmediagroup.com> Looking for a post-bail photo of Dmitry out of jail for freesklyarov.org... -- http://www.media.mit.edu/~jim research assistant . software agents group . e-markets sig mit media lab . cambridge, ma Free Dmitry Sklyarov ... http://freesklyarov.org/ From Jonathan at Weesner.org Mon Aug 6 13:29:40 2001 From: Jonathan at Weesner.org (Jonathan Weesner) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Fundamental Nature of Fair Use Message-ID: <3B6EFE34.5000307@Weesner.org> The notion of Fair Use is fundamentally a legal judgement on the uses of physical property. With the advent of digital information, there has been an effort to create the concepts, legal framework, and (to a minimal extent) moral framework, for a new class of property, often called Intellectual Property (IP). Unfortunately, there does not currently exist an IP equivalent notion of Fair Use. In fact, the DMCA makes any such notion impossible. The following is a discussion of our current, physical-property based notion of Fair Use: SHORT FAIR USE DEFINITION: Fair Use is a Court opinion about the legality of an existing, physically possible, property use. GENERIC FAIR USE EXPLANATION: If I, as the owner of a physical object (my property), find that I am physically able to do X with it, then fair Use tells me whether or not it is legal for me to do X with it. REALWORLD FAIR USE EXAMPLE: If I, as the owner of a VCR (my property), find that I am physically able to record a TV program with it, then Fair Use tells me whether or not it is legal for me to record a TV program with it. IMPORTANT FAIR USE POINT (1) : Fair Use does not say that I must be given the ability to record TV shows. It only states that if I find myself able to record a TV show, it is legal for me to do so (within certain limits not discussed here). If I have a MacroVision VCR that cannot record certain TV shows, have my Fair Use rights been violated? No. I am physically unable to record TV shows so Fair Use does not apply to this case. You may respond : "Yeah? Well a screw driver and a soldering iron can fix that!". You are probably correct. The DMCA is designed to address this issue in the area of digital information (IP). IMPORTANT FAIR USE POINT (2) : Fair Use is decided on a case-by-case basis by the Court. In practice, Fair Use is decided on a scenario-by-scenario basis because the Plantiff / Defendant can argue that their case is very similar to a previous case (similar scenario), and should therefore have the same outcome as the previous case. In the VCR example, We know this is Fair Use because of a legal battle a few decades ago. One party -- the owner of a VCR -- noticed that it was physically possible to record a TV show, and argued that it should be legal for him to do so. The other party said that this amounted to theft and argued that it should be illegal. The court ruled that (within certain limits) it is legal for a VCR owner to record TV shows. IMPORTANT FAIR USE POINT (3) : Fair Use applies to specific uses that are not already specifically addressed by Criminal Law and Property Law. For example, if Bob uses his gun to kill someone, he could argue that he has discovered his gun is able to kill people, and that this use should be legal under Fair Use. Of course, Bob's trial will deal with existing Criminal Homicide Law and Fair Use will only come up if Criminal Law does not specifically address his actions (unlikely!). The DMCA is designed with this point in mind. The fundamental nature of Fair Use is very different from the fundamental nature of Constitutional Rights. CONTRAST: FAIR USE VS. CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT. Consider our Constitutional Right to Legal Representation. If this was a Fair Use "Right" then it would read something like this: If you are able to find a lawyer in your area, and are able to persuade this lawyer to represent you, then Fair Use says that it is legal for this lawyer to represent you in court. The implication of Fair Use is that if I am unable to find / afford a lawyer, then I must go through trial without legal representation! Clearly, our Legal Representation Right is more than Fair Use. Actually, this is a poor example because it does not contain the concept of Physical Property. I just wanted to point out that Fair Use and Constitutional Right are fundamentally different. I Am Not A Lawyer. Just a concerned US Citizen who has researched this issue. I know that my understanding is not perfect and welcome any feedback. I do suggest that you consider replying to me directly (off list), since this forum is focused on Freeing Dmitry and Fair Use is peripheral to that noble goal. I have another rant about why I believe that the DMCA prevents the IP equivalent of a Fair Use notion... but I think many will agree that I have preached enough in this forum :o) Send me email if you are interested in more.... Jonathan Weesner Jonathan@Weesner.org From kmself at ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 6 13:40:21 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Does Adobe's EBook reader actually prevent copying? In-Reply-To: <20010806111945.A3343@3soft.de>; from david.haworth@altavista.net on Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 11:19:45AM +0200 References: <20010806111945.A3343@3soft.de> Message-ID: <20010806134021.F13570@navel.introspect> on Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 11:19:45AM +0200, David Haworth (david.haworth@altavista.net) wrote: > Can someone with more knowledge than I have confirm or deny this? > > I suggest that Adobe's ebook reader doesn't actually prevent copying. > If you install a (legally bought) copy of Windows in a vmware virtual > machine, install the ebook reader on that virtual machine and then buy > one or more ebooks keyed to that virtual machine - what happens if > you transfer the entire virtual drive (just a file to the host OS) > to another machine that runs vmware? Does it work? This is the case with most access prevention devices, particularly as implemented in softwarer. Hardware may pose other problems. The point is that it's almost always possible to replicate the encrypted data directly. Note, however, that this generally doesn't involve circumvention of the access prevention system itself. Thus, it's not copying, per se, but *access*, which is prohibited by such devices. This is a point raised in the 2600 case, Kaplan's to date been unmoved AFAIK. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010806/c01e9d05/attachment.pgp From byoungvt at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 13:47:17 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (no subject) Message-ID: <20010806204717.95402.qmail@web14507.mail.yahoo.com> Sorry spelling went out the window I am headed to the jail to meet D. I have pictures from today at http://sjrally.n3.net nice photos!!!!! Congratulations All at least he is out of jail (for now!!!!) BJY From ed at hintz.org Mon Aug 6 13:51:35 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing Message-ID: <200108062051.f76KpZc16477@phil.hintz.org> On 8/6/01 10:22 AM, ed@hintz.org thus spake: >looks like he will need to process out of sc jail but should soon be out >of prison. > Notes on this: Dima is not yet out of jail. Bond is posted, but he now has to process out of Santa Clara County Jail. Background: When I was a dumb college kid many years ago, I flaked out on several speeding tickets and such, and wound up with several warrants for Failure to Appear. The total dollar amount was $1400, and as a minimum wage cashier for a pet shop there was no way in hell I could pay it. So, on Sunday evening of Spring Break week, I turned myself in to the local PD. 2 court appearances later (different jurisdictions) both judges declared time served, making me a free man in theory. Reality was it took a day and a half from the judge declaring me free to me walking out of LA County Jail a free man. Dima is a bit higher profile than I am, but it's still going to take some time. Even when he hits the streets, he is still imprisoned, just in a 3000 mile wide cell. He is not a free man until he hits international airspace on a jet bound for Moscow. He is still separated from his family, his job, and his school, and facing 5 years imprisonment in a foreign country. Ergo, we must continue to turn up the heat. This is yet another small victory, like Adobe, but the war is far from over. On a positive note, press coverage is picking up, and more publicity is a very good thing. Let's not lose our momentum here folks, onward... Free Dima! Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 14:20:51 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP response quoted in a previous thread In-Reply-To: <20010806194649.31607.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010806212051.81825.qmail@web13903.mail.yahoo.com> adler is the individual who used the breaking into the bookstore analogy which some harried representatives found such perusuasive logic: i can replay the exchange in my imagination: rep: can you explain the dmca anti-circumvention provision? adler: well, we are trying to stop thieves from breaking into the bookstore and stealing our books! rep: how can anyone be against that, that's burglary, by god, nobody likes a burglar, especially a book burglar - you got my vote mr adler! [note the real colloquy took place in the context of fair use discussion/] --- Paul Callahan wrote: > Thanks for posting Adler's response to the ACM > letter. > It does make it clear (as should already be obvious) > > that DMCA proponents have a well-thought-out agenda. > > It's not that they are ignorant of technology. In > fact, > they know just how easy it is to crack a carelessly > designed copy-protection system and this is why they > favor criminalization of anti-circumvention > software. > > I see the AAP argument as this: we need laws against > the authorship of anti-circumvention tools > regardless > of their intended use. The cost to society from > having them available is too great, since it will > allow the easy theft and widespread duplication of > any > intellectual property in electronic form. Simply > prosecuting infringement (already illegal before > DMCA) > is ineffective. DMCA is intended to augment > previous law in order to prevent the proliferation > of tools that promote infringement. > > The legal argument really boils down to whether you > believe that the rights of publishers should be > extended beyond their de facto status before DMCA. > Many here, myself included, believe that there is a > fundamental right to fair use that includes selling > used books, copying books into a more convenient > form > for use by the purchaser, and citing text in > reviews and so forth. These have historically been > enjoyed by the lawful purchasers of IP (readers) and > have arguably promoted, not undermined the societal > benefits (incentive to produce scholarly work) that > are > used to justify copyright law in the first place. > New encryption technology, if *correctly* > implemented, > will allow publishers to infringe on these rights, > historically enjoyed by readers. Thus, DMCA extends > the rights of publishers. > > So with this in mind, it becomes clear that DMCA > is a one-sided law. In a different world, I could > be writing a response from the "American Association > of Readers": > > "The very development of > copy-protection technology should be criminalized, > since its proliferation will make it possible to > infringe on the fair use rights of readers. It is > not > merely enough to prosecute a publisher that sells > an ebook without a feature allowing fair use, but > even the development of cryptographic copy > protection > is wrong, since it would so facilitate the ability > of publishers to infringe on the reader's fair use > rights that there would be no effective recourse. > Thus, the law should forbid not only the > infringing use of copy-protection technology, > but the technology itself." > > If the suggestion above sounds any more laughable > than > Mr. Adler's, I can only suggest that this is because > we as a society have become accustomed to hearing > draconian laws proposed to protect corporate profits > from the effects of new technology. But there are > also historical civil liberties threatened by > technology. While these are sometimes discussed > (privacy of financial databases), one rarely hears > of new crimes being invented to protect them. E.g., > I have heard nothing about the FBI vigorously > prosecuting credit > card executives who fail to comply with laws > demanding that they send privacy rights notification > to > customers. > > Personally, I think the DMCA anti-circumvention > provision is not only an unjust use of > government force, but also a very unrealistic > approach > to preventing unauthorized copying. Sklyarov was > caught precisely because of Elcomsoft's insistence > that its business was not violating any law > combined with Sklyarov's openness in claiming > authorship. It would be virtually impossible to > enforce this law against a company that was making > any serious effort to evade prosecution. > > Somehow, the suggestion seems to > be that with a sufficiently draconian penalty and > relentless enforcement, it will be possible to deter > any would-be authors of unauthorized decryption > software even if the decryption systems themselves > are not intrinsically secure. I would concede that > this may be true, but "sufficiently" in this > case is at an unprecedented cost to the civil > liberties > enjoyed in a democratic society. > > --Paul > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From kmself at ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 6 14:24:03 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] "Best edition" and e-books? Message-ID: <20010806142403.G13570@navel.introspect> Does anyone know what the best edition of a work is in the case of an e-book? 17 USC 101: The "best edition" of a work is the edition, published in the United States at any time before the date of deposit, that the Library of Congress determines to be most suitable for its purposes. http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/101.text.html Thanks. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010806/4b5ed347/attachment.pgp From sisgeek at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 14:34:50 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20010806204717.95402.qmail@web14507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010806213450.3825.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> can someone tell me what the "new economy" sign says - i love individuals imaginations. (photo 101-0156_IMG.jpg) im guessing: [universities] -> criminals [librarians] -> terrorists [consumers] -> hostages --- brad young wrote: > > Sorry spelling went out the window I am headed to > the > jail to meet D. > I have pictures from today at http://sjrally.n3.net > nice photos!!!!! Congratulations All at > least he is out of jail (for now!!!!) > > BJY > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca Mon Aug 6 14:48:45 2001 From: marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca (Austin Hook) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker In-Reply-To: <3B6EF0EC.6090403@kalifornia.com> Message-ID: Thank god there's a judge with at least some sense. $50K bail in a case like this, is not excessive, especially with the vindictive folks in the fed prosecutors office claiming he is a flight risk. Bodes well for success of a motion to dismiss later this year. (Correct me if I am wrong, reading the, only $50K bail being granted, as a good sign of what that judge is thinking.) Now I think it's time to start deprecating the word hacker where Dmitry is concerned. Although Dmitry's work is of interest to hackers of both the good and bad types, when major media uses the work hacker, we know what they mean. They mean it as in "criminal". What I have seen is that Dmitry is just a serious researcher and programmer, just doing his job, and does not even fit the model of ordinary hacker: the kind who make new programs mostly just for fun, amusement and glory, or creates work arounds, bends software into shape to accomplish something novel, all without violating anyone's copyright much less profiting by distributing "pirated" copies of commercial software, or releasing damaging viruses to the world. Hacker basically just means someone good enough to "hack" through a jungle of code without an official road map. So I think newspapers who use headlines "Hacker... Dmitry ..." should be threatened for suit for defamation, with sufficient remedy being to publish either a retraction, or else a detailed explanation of how "hacker" need not be interpreted as criminal. This should not be necessary for publications whose targeted readership already knows this, but for publications that are deliberately using the word "hacker", knowing that their readership is ignorant of the fair meaning of "hacker" then, if they are not doing it to defame, they must provide sufficient and constant clarification to their readership what they mean by hacker, sufficient that at least a majority of their readership knows that they are not implying that hacker=criminal, and why a hacker is not a criminal in general. I also don't think that "renegade of the year" awards, or such notoriety is appropriate where Dmitry is concerned. He's just a competent guy doing top notch work, and an innocent victim of unjust interpretations of unjust legislation, visiting what is getting to be an unjust country. There is no need to draft him into a mould that he doesn't fit, and I don't think it helps his case. Not that such a fate should happen to a true hacker either. We will have plenty of true hackers that will get into trouble if this law sticks around. And there will be plenty of occasion to point out how even non-hackers risk their freedom from this new oppression. Austin Hook From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Aug 6 14:44:08 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20010806213450.3825.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com>; from sisgeek@yahoo.com on Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 02:34:50PM -0700 References: <20010806204717.95402.qmail@web14507.mail.yahoo.com> <20010806213450.3825.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010806144408.N11634@zork.net> alfee cube writes: > can someone tell me what the "new economy" sign says - > i love individuals imaginations. (photo > 101-0156_IMG.jpg) > > im guessing: > > [universities] -> criminals > [librarians] -> terrorists > [consumers] -> hostages I think it was made by Scott (Xcott) Craver. He was carrying it at the first Free Dmitry protest. You should be able to find a picture in somebody's San Jose albums of Scott holding that sign (with the full text visible). Start from http://sf.freesklyarov.org/ -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From sisgeek at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 14:49:51 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] "Best edition" and e-books? In-Reply-To: <20010806142403.G13570@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <20010806214951.86486.qmail@web13903.mail.yahoo.com> hi karsten, this may help? when there exists multiple formats, like cd, tape, cartridge, cassette, etc some ranking of preference is desired. "best edition" is a concept which address this preference by establishes an ordered list for formats (or more generally, expressions in tangible format/media). --- "Karsten M. Self" wrote: > Does anyone know what the best edition of a work is > in the case of an > e-book? > > 17 USC 101: > > The "best edition" of a work is the edition, > published in the United States at > any time before the date of deposit, that the > Library of Congress determines to be most > suitable for its purposes. > > > http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/101.text.html > > Thanks. > > -- > Karsten M. Self > http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ > What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? > There is no K5 cabal > http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ > http://www.kuro5hin.org > Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! > http://www.freesklyarov.org > Geek for Hire > http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html > > ATTACHMENT part 2 application/pgp-signature __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From pablos at kadrevis.com Mon Aug 6 14:51:07 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Story for NewsForge: What next for Free Dmitry? (fwd) Message-ID: <4021089.997109467@[0.0.0.0]> Grant, I'm not able to get back to you on this, I've CC'd the Free-Sklyarov list, and maybe someone will point you to the information you need. Thanks, pablos. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 3:31 PM -0700 From: Grant Gross To: Paul Holman Subject: Re: Story for NewsForge: What next for Free Dmitry? Hi, Paul I'm trying again to do something on the Free Dmitry movement and what's next. So what happens now with the Skylarov situation? What's the next move for your site? Any word on any kind of release or court date? Thanks, Grant --- Paul Holman wrote: > Grant, I'll write some quick answers to your > questions, but feel free to > give me a call sometime tomorrow if you haven't > written your story already. > Sorry for the delay on this reply. > > > 1. How's the rejectmueller site being received? > Have > > you gotten a lot of email about it, as compared to > the > > boycottadobe site? > > We've recanted on our call to reject Mueller as FBI > Director, having since > learned that he is no longer actively working on > prosecution in the > Northern District of California. We currently > believe that US Attorney > David Shapiro is filling that role and that it is > his duty to drop the case. > > > 2. Are there any more protests planned? I've seen > > mention of a couple on the email list, but I > haven't > > seen firm plans for any? > > More protests are being planned to draw attention to > the fact that Dmitry > Sklyarov still is not free, and that the federal > prosecutors are > responsible for this. There will continue to be > protests of the DMCA until > it is repealed or modified to respect our 1st > Ammendment rights. > > > 3. Any responses to the email for a webmaster for > > boycottadobe? > > Yes, we're getting some help now. The site has been > slashdotted for a week > and a half due to the international press frenzy. > This is exactly the kind > of success we were hoping for to help free Dmitry. > > > 4. What's next? Any other plans while you've still > got > > media attention and an active email list? > > I want to get Dmitry out of jail so I can retire > from activism. Sadly, > this is only the first of many battles in our war > against the DMCA, but the > rest of the army of supporters can take it from > here, I need a break! > > Good luck with the story. If you'd like to cover > any of the issues more in > depth, please give me a call! > > Thanks, > > Paul Holman > pablos@kadrevis.com > 415.420.3806 > http://www.shmoo.com/~pablos __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From sisgeek at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 14:51:12 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010806215112.48373.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com> im tempted to view it as a judicial slap? anyone want to talk me out of this view? --- Austin Hook wrote: > > Thank god there's a judge with at least some > sense. $50K bail in a > case like this, is not excessive, especially with > the vindictive folks in > the fed prosecutors office claiming he is a flight > risk. Bodes well for > success of a motion to dismiss later this year. > > (Correct me if I am wrong, reading the, only > $50K bail being granted, > as a good sign of what that judge is thinking.) > > Now I think it's time to start deprecating the > word hacker where > Dmitry is concerned. Although Dmitry's work is of > interest to hackers of > both the good and bad types, when major media uses > the work hacker, we > know what they mean. They mean it as in "criminal". > > > What I have seen is that Dmitry is just a > serious researcher and > programmer, just doing his job, and does not even > fit the model of > ordinary hacker: the kind who make new programs > mostly just for fun, > amusement and glory, or creates work arounds, bends > software into shape to > accomplish something novel, all without violating > anyone's copyright much > less profiting by distributing "pirated" copies of > commercial software, or > releasing damaging viruses to the world. Hacker > basically just means > someone good enough to "hack" through a jungle of > code without an official > road map. > > So I think newspapers who use headlines > "Hacker... Dmitry ..." should > be threatened for suit for defamation, with > sufficient remedy being to > publish either a retraction, or else a detailed > explanation of how > "hacker" need not be interpreted as criminal. This > should not be > necessary for publications whose targeted readership > already knows this, > but for publications that are deliberately using the > word "hacker", > knowing that their readership is ignorant of the > fair meaning of "hacker" > then, if they are not doing it to defame, they must > provide sufficient and > constant clarification to their readership what they > mean by hacker, > sufficient that at least a majority of their > readership knows that they > are not implying that hacker=criminal, and why a > hacker is not a criminal > in general. > > I also don't think that "renegade of the year" > awards, or such > notoriety is appropriate where Dmitry is concerned. > He's just a competent > guy doing top notch work, and an innocent victim of > unjust interpretations > of unjust legislation, visiting what is getting to > be an unjust country. > There is no need to draft him into a mould that he > doesn't fit, and I > don't think it helps his case. Not that such a fate > should happen to a > true hacker either. > > We will have plenty of true hackers that will get > into trouble if this > law sticks around. And there will be plenty of > occasion to point out how > even non-hackers risk their freedom from this new > oppression. > > Austin Hook > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca Mon Aug 6 15:03:38 2001 From: marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca (Austin Hook) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker In-Reply-To: <20010806215112.48373.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, alfee cube wrote: > im tempted to view it as a judicial slap? anyone want > to talk me out of this view? How do you mean? A.H. > --- Austin Hook > wrote: > > > > Thank god there's a judge with at least some > > sense. $50K bail in a > > case like this, is not excessive, especially with > > the vindictive folks in > > the fed prosecutors office claiming he is a flight > > risk. Bodes well for > > success of a motion to dismiss later this year. > > > > (Correct me if I am wrong, reading the, only > > $50K bail being granted, > > as a good sign of what that judge is thinking.) > > > > Now I think it's time to start deprecating the > > word hacker where > > Dmitry is concerned. Although Dmitry's work is of > > interest to hackers of > > both the good and bad types, when major media uses > > the work hacker, we > > know what they mean. They mean it as in "criminal". > > > > > > What I have seen is that Dmitry is just a > > serious researcher and > > programmer, just doing his job, and does not even > > fit the model of > > ordinary hacker: the kind who make new programs > > mostly just for fun, > > amusement and glory, or creates work arounds, bends > > software into shape to > > accomplish something novel, all without violating > > anyone's copyright much > > less profiting by distributing "pirated" copies of > > commercial software, or > > releasing damaging viruses to the world. Hacker > > basically just means > > someone good enough to "hack" through a jungle of > > code without an official > > road map. > > > > So I think newspapers who use headlines > > "Hacker... Dmitry ..." should > > be threatened for suit for defamation, with > > sufficient remedy being to > > publish either a retraction, or else a detailed > > explanation of how > > "hacker" need not be interpreted as criminal. This > > should not be > > necessary for publications whose targeted readership > > already knows this, > > but for publications that are deliberately using the > > word "hacker", > > knowing that their readership is ignorant of the > > fair meaning of "hacker" > > then, if they are not doing it to defame, they must > > provide sufficient and > > constant clarification to their readership what they > > mean by hacker, > > sufficient that at least a majority of their > > readership knows that they > > are not implying that hacker=criminal, and why a > > hacker is not a criminal > > in general. > > > > I also don't think that "renegade of the year" > > awards, or such > > notoriety is appropriate where Dmitry is concerned. > > He's just a competent > > guy doing top notch work, and an innocent victim of > > unjust interpretations > > of unjust legislation, visiting what is getting to > > be an unjust country. > > There is no need to draft him into a mould that he > > doesn't fit, and I > > don't think it helps his case. Not that such a fate > > should happen to a > > true hacker either. > > > > We will have plenty of true hackers that will get > > into trouble if this > > law sticks around. And there will be plenty of > > occasion to point out how > > even non-hackers risk their freedom from this new > > oppression. > > > > Austin Hook > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From gbroiles at well.com Mon Aug 6 14:56:21 2001 From: gbroiles at well.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker In-Reply-To: References: <3B6EF0EC.6090403@kalifornia.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010806144534.03a39080@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 02:48 PM 8/6/2001 -0700, Austin Hook wrote: > (Correct me if I am wrong, reading the, only $50K bail being granted, >as a good sign of what that judge is thinking.) The $50K bail was a joint recommendation from the defense and prosecution, who had obviously negotiated and coordinated their efforts several days prior to today's hearing, which led to Sergei Osokine's being present in court (for examination and the judge's approval as custodian for Dmitri) and Elcomsoft being prepared to post $50K cash (well, probably a cashiers' check) bail on a few minutes' notice. So, sure, it means that the judge has some chance of being reasonable, but that's mostly because the federal prosecutor was recommending $50K bail. We would have learned a lot more about Magistrate Infante if the prosecutor had opposed bail and they'd had extended discussion about its appropriateness. Today's hearing was pretty much a rubber-stamp process for a pre-negotiated deal. The next appearance will be in front of a different judge - I think he'll be the judge who actually hears the case, if there's a trial. I think Dmitri's attorney is doing a good job for him - that may not lead to a big showdown on the merits of the DMCA this time, but I think it will mean that Dmitri gets to sleep in his own bed again pretty soon. (But that doesn't mean people should stop caring about the case, or writing, or showing up at hearings, etc.) > Now I think it's time to start deprecating the word hacker where >Dmitry is concerned. Although Dmitry's work is of interest to hackers of >both the good and bad types, when major media uses the work hacker, we >know what they mean. They mean it as in "criminal". Yeah. When I've talked to people about this case, I've described Dmitri as either a programmer/employee or as a student, because those roles are easy for people to identify with. If you ask, "Should hackers go to jail?", it's a lot more likely people will say "yes" than if you ask that question about "students" or "loyal employees doing their jobs". -- Greg Broiles gbroiles@well.com "We have found and closed the thing you watch us with." -- New Delhi street kids From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Mon Aug 6 15:00:26 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20010806213450.3825.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, alfee cube wrote: > can someone tell me what the "new economy" sign says - > i love individuals imaginations. (photo > 101-0156_IMG.jpg) > > im guessing: > > [universities] -> criminals > [librarians] -> terrorists > [consumers] -> hostages That's it. The header read, "THE NEW NEW ECONOMY:" I think I saw a glimmer of someone else using the sign in a picture from the SF protest. I couldn't make it because I was at the SPIE conference in San Diego. I did see you guys on CNN Headline News from my hotel room, which made my day. I made sure to add a dash of Sklyarov to my talk at the conference, using some nice protest photos as sample images in my presentation. I also got invited at the last second to participate in a panel discussion on the future of imaging security, and I made sure to mention up Dmitry's arrest. Funny fact about the panel discussion: every other sentence from each panel member began, "I'm hoping there's noone from the MPAA/RIAA in the audience, but...." -S From crumley at mail.com Mon Aug 6 15:04:51 2001 From: crumley at mail.com (Jim Crumley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Message-ID: <20010806220451.24083.qmail@mail.com> > im tempted to view it as a judicial slap? anyone > want to talk me out of this view? Well the EFF press release says that the judge simply agreed to the bail plan that Dmitry's and the government's lawyers agreed to. So it doesn't seem like a judicial slap. It might say something about how the US attorney looks at this case, but what that is I have no idea. -- _______________________________________________ FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Talk More, Pay Less with Net2Phone Direct(R), up to 1500 minutes free! http://www.net2phone.com/cgi-bin/link.cgi?143 From ed at hintz.org Mon Aug 6 15:04:58 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (no subject) Message-ID: <200108062205.f76M4wc00806@phil.hintz.org> On 8/6/01 2:44 PM, schoen@loyalty.org thus spake: >You should be able to find a picture in somebody's San Jose albums of >Scott holding that sign (with the full text visible). Start from http://nc.flyingbuttmonkeys.com/~ehintz/dmitry_pix/sign11.jpg Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From ed at hintz.org Mon Aug 6 15:07:41 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Message-ID: <200108062207.f76M7fc17970@phil.hintz.org> On 8/6/01 2:48 PM, marvin@qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca thus spake: > > Thank god there's a judge with at least some sense. $50K bail in a >case like this, is not excessive, especially with the vindictive folks in >the fed prosecutors office claiming he is a flight risk. Bodes well for >success of a motion to dismiss later this year. I don't think the judge had anything to do with it other than rubberstamping the deal. I expect, given the evidence that the check and custodial person were present, that the DA and the Defense had this all worked out prior to the hearing. Looks as if the DA finally realized that Dima's not an evil Russian hacker. I wouldn't be surprised if they're trying to save some face right now by letting him out on easy terms. Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca Mon Aug 6 15:14:17 2001 From: marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca (Austin Hook) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing In-Reply-To: <20010806184359.5225.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, alfee cube wrote: .... > > complaint is sealed What does that mean? From admin at seattle-chat.com Mon Aug 6 15:15:53 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes why is the complaint sealed? Is this a new complaint? We already saw the old one. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Austin Hook Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:14 PM To: alfee cube Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, alfee cube wrote: .... > > complaint is sealed What does that mean? _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From gbroiles at well.com Mon Aug 6 15:29:58 2001 From: gbroiles at well.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010806151927.03b53c20@pop3.norton.antivirus> The judge was confused about the sealed complaint, and was corrected - I can't remember if he corrected himself or the prosecutor did. The complaint was originally sealed so that Dmitri wouldn't learn that he was about to be arrested - the complaint was unsealed at his initial appearance in Las Vegas. There isn't a new complaint, although it wouldn't be unusual for him to be indicted by a federal grand jury prior to his next appearance, which will result in an indictment replacing the complaint as the charging document; that would also make his next appearance a little bit more like a formality and a little bit less like a contested hearing, because it will mean that a grand jury has already found that there's probable cause to hold him for trial. (but, if you're not interested in the guts of criminal procedure, that's a detail that you don't need to get especially worked up about - it's neither especially good nor especially bad.) At 03:15 PM 8/6/2001 -0700, Charles Eakins wrote: >Yes why is the complaint sealed? Is this a new complaint? We already saw >the old one. > >-----Original Message----- >From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net >[mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Austin Hook >Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:14 PM >To: alfee cube >Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net >Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing > > > > >On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, alfee cube wrote: >.... > > > complaint is sealed > >What does that mean? > -- Greg Broiles gbroiles@well.com "We have found and closed the thing you watch us with." -- New Delhi street kids From kmself at ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 6 15:28:10 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] "Best edition" and e-books? In-Reply-To: <20010806142403.G13570@navel.introspect>; from kmself@ix.netcom.com on Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 02:24:03PM -0700 References: <20010806142403.G13570@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <20010806152810.C806@navel.introspect> on Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 02:24:03PM -0700, Karsten M. Self (kmself@ix.netcom.com) wrote: > Does anyone know what the best edition of a work is in the case of an > e-book? > > 17 USC 101: > > The "best edition" of a work is the edition, published in the United States at any time before the date of deposit, that the > Library of Congress determines to be most suitable for its purposes. > > http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/101.text.html > > Thanks. Answering myself, the answer would seem to be in Circular 7b published by the Library of Congress: http://www.loc.gov/copyright/circs/circ07b.pdf For printed textual matter, archival-quality, hardcover, sewn library bound, with decreasing preferences for other material specified. For computer programs: - With documents rather than without - Not copy-protected rather than copy protected. - PC-DOS, MS-DOS, or other IBM compatible format such as XENIX - 5.25", 3.5", CDROM. Works existing in more than one medium, in order: - Printed matter, microform, phonorecord. It would seem that an eBook would have as a best edition, bound hardcopy on archival quality media. Any information to the contrary? -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010806/e3741bcf/attachment.pgp From ckirby at sfchronicle.com Mon Aug 6 15:43:24 2001 From: ckirby at sfchronicle.com (Carrie Kirby) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing Message-ID: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D4615@sfc-exmail1> does anyone know if Dmitry is staying with the guy in whose custody he was released to? how about that guy's contact info? i'd like to call him if just to confirm the spelling of his name. carrie From sisgeek at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 15:47:18 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010806224718.66695.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com> public cannot see or report on the district attorney's complaint (not to be confused with the arrest warrant documents which are public). may be a good thing (consider strictly my imagination:) 1. one scott and his supervisor (prosecutors) pursue a "public strategy" (ie make the complaint public) they are "in effect" saying to the world "im going to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that dima committed the charges in the complaint"! making it harder to reverse themselves. 2. once the complaint is public dima in a very real sense becomes the da's tar-baby - right now it is just the fbi's tar baby. 3. joe (dima's attorney) is saying to scott "hey scott, i'll take this tar-baby off your hands" i'll help you with some joint statement about a new law and an fbi who didn't know it was a tar-baby. --- Austin Hook wrote: > > > On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, alfee cube wrote: > .... > > > complaint is sealed > > What does that mean? > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From nbhs2 at i-2000.com Mon Aug 6 16:02:55 2001 From: nbhs2 at i-2000.com (Michael Scottaline) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker In-Reply-To: References: <3B6EF0EC.6090403@kalifornia.com> Message-ID: <20010806190255.12475c4e.nbhs2@i-2000.com> On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:48:45 -0700 (MST) Austin Hook insightfully noted: AH> So I think newspapers who use headlines "Hacker... Dmitry ..." AH> should AH> be threatened for suit for defamation, with sufficient remedy being to AH> publish either a retraction, or else a detailed explanation of how AH> "hacker" need not be interpreted as criminal. This should not be AH> necessary for publications whose targeted readership already knows AH> this, AH> but for publications that are deliberately using the word "hacker", AH> knowing that their readership is ignorant of the fair meaning of AH> "hacker" AH> then, if they are not doing it to defame, they must provide sufficient AH> and AH> constant clarification to their readership what they mean by hacker, AH> sufficient that at least a majority of their readership knows that AH> they AH> are not implying that hacker=criminal, and why a hacker is not a AH> criminal AH> in general. ======================================================== Hmm......, now it should be our turn to censor and violate a constitutional right? If calling Dmitry a hacker is not blatant libel then I don't think the press can be stopped (nor should they) for using the term. If calling Dmitry a "hacker" is clearly an untruth and done with "malicious intent" then perhaps you have a case. Mike -- "I decry the current tendency to seek patents on algorithms. There are better ways to earn a living than to prevent other people from making use of one's contributions to computer science." -- Donald E. Knuth, TAoCP vol 3 From sisgeek at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 16:00:16 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing In-Reply-To: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D4615@sfc-exmail1> Message-ID: <20010806230016.44055.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com> hey carrie, what does mumia have to do with dmitry? --- Carrie Kirby wrote: > does anyone know if Dmitry is staying with the guy > in whose custody he was > released to? how about that guy's contact info? i'd > like to call him if just > to confirm the spelling of his name. > > carrie > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ckirby at sfchronicle.com Mon Aug 6 16:02:51 2001 From: ckirby at sfchronicle.com (Carrie Kirby) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing Message-ID: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D4617@sfc-exmail1> uh, people are always going around telling people to free mumia? -----Original Message----- From: alfee cube [mailto:sisgeek@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 4:00 PM To: Carrie Kirby; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing hey carrie, what does mumia have to do with dmitry? --- Carrie Kirby wrote: > does anyone know if Dmitry is staying with the guy > in whose custody he was > released to? how about that guy's contact info? i'd > like to call him if just > to confirm the spelling of his name. > > carrie > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From byoungvt at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 16:08:27 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] My Talk with Dmitry Message-ID: <20010806230827.86457.qmail@web14510.mail.yahoo.com> I went down to the County jail and talked with Dmitry before his ride showed up.I just did a little write-up and put it on my web site. I also took two pictures of the Big "D". He looks good after all he has been through!!! Talk with Dmitry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010806/302c5445/attachment.html From ckirby at sfchronicle.com Mon Aug 6 16:09:14 2001 From: ckirby at sfchronicle.com (Carrie Kirby) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Message-ID: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D4618@sfc-exmail1> thanks, i got the contact info for Serguei -----Original Message----- From: Michael Scottaline [mailto:nbhs2@i-2000.com] Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 4:03 PM To: Austin Hook Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Hacker On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:48:45 -0700 (MST) Austin Hook insightfully noted: AH> So I think newspapers who use headlines "Hacker... Dmitry ..." AH> should AH> be threatened for suit for defamation, with sufficient remedy being to AH> publish either a retraction, or else a detailed explanation of how AH> "hacker" need not be interpreted as criminal. This should not be AH> necessary for publications whose targeted readership already knows AH> this, AH> but for publications that are deliberately using the word "hacker", AH> knowing that their readership is ignorant of the fair meaning of AH> "hacker" AH> then, if they are not doing it to defame, they must provide sufficient AH> and AH> constant clarification to their readership what they mean by hacker, AH> sufficient that at least a majority of their readership knows that AH> they AH> are not implying that hacker=criminal, and why a hacker is not a AH> criminal AH> in general. ======================================================== Hmm......, now it should be our turn to censor and violate a constitutional right? If calling Dmitry a hacker is not blatant libel then I don't think the press can be stopped (nor should they) for using the term. If calling Dmitry a "hacker" is clearly an untruth and done with "malicious intent" then perhaps you have a case. Mike -- "I decry the current tendency to seek patents on algorithms. There are better ways to earn a living than to prevent other people from making use of one's contributions to computer science." -- Donald E. Knuth, TAoCP vol 3 _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From sisgeek at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 16:10:39 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker In-Reply-To: <20010806190255.12475c4e.nbhs2@i-2000.com> Message-ID: <20010806231039.57245.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> i recently saw a pacbell commercial which i thought was interesting: it has a genxer at a laptop in a room with one way glass with two lab rats on the other side giving him system security challenges which he unrealistically breaks with a keystroke or two. the announcer then says we hire the "hackers" to test the system before they test it themselves. --- Michael Scottaline wrote: > On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:48:45 -0700 (MST) > Austin Hook > > insightfully noted: > > > AH> So I think newspapers who use headlines > "Hacker... Dmitry ..." > AH> should > AH> be threatened for suit for defamation, with > sufficient remedy being to > AH> publish either a retraction, or else a detailed > explanation of how > AH> "hacker" need not be interpreted as criminal. > This should not be > AH> necessary for publications whose targeted > readership already knows > AH> this, > AH> but for publications that are deliberately using > the word "hacker", > AH> knowing that their readership is ignorant of the > fair meaning of > AH> "hacker" > AH> then, if they are not doing it to defame, they > must provide sufficient > AH> and > AH> constant clarification to their readership what > they mean by hacker, > AH> sufficient that at least a majority of their > readership knows that > AH> they > AH> are not implying that hacker=criminal, and why a > hacker is not a > AH> criminal > AH> in general. > ======================================================== > Hmm......, now it should be our turn to censor and > violate a > constitutional right? If calling Dmitry a hacker is > not blatant libel > then I don't think the press can be stopped (nor > should they) for using > the term. If calling Dmitry a "hacker" is clearly > an untruth and done > with "malicious intent" then perhaps you have a > case. > Mike > > -- > "I decry the current tendency to seek patents on > algorithms. There are > better ways to earn a living than to prevent other > people from making > use of one's contributions to computer science." > -- Donald E. Knuth, > TAoCP vol 3 > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 16:19:56 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] My Talk with Dmitry In-Reply-To: <20010806230827.86457.qmail@web14510.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010806231956.58440.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> very cool brad - are your a student to be a reporter? --- brad young wrote: > I went down to the County jail and talked with > Dmitry before his ride showed up.I just did a little > write-up and put it on my web site. I also took two > pictures of the Big "D". He looks good after all he > has been through!!! Talk with Dmitry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From callahanpb at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 16:30:26 2001 From: callahanpb at yahoo.com (Paul Callahan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing In-Reply-To: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D4617@sfc-exmail1> Message-ID: <20010806233026.67853.qmail@web13107.mail.yahoo.com> People also post signs saying "Free kittens." So you'll have to do a little better than that. Please don't take this as criticism of the article, which seemed very balanced and reasonable to me. It's just a criticism of your glib retort. :) I can also understand why some people here might view it as counterproductive to throw Mumia into the mix. --Paul --- Carrie Kirby wrote: > uh, people are always going around telling people to > free mumia? > > -----Original Message----- > From: alfee cube [mailto:sisgeek@yahoo.com] > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 4:00 PM > To: Carrie Kirby; free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing > > > hey carrie, > > > what does mumia have to do with dmitry? > > > --- Carrie Kirby wrote: > > does anyone know if Dmitry is staying with the guy > > in whose custody he was > > released to? how about that guy's contact info? > i'd > > like to call him if just > > to confirm the spelling of his name. > > > > carrie > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From mech at eff.org Mon Aug 6 16:28:17 2001 From: mech at eff.org (Stanton McCandlish) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] rally & protest site organizers please contact me Message-ID: If you are a demostration organizer and/or are running one of the *.freesklyarov.org local sites, please drop me a line and tell me who you are, which site/locale, etc. Want to be able to reach all of you on short notice :) -- -- Stanton McCandlish mech@eff.org http://www.eff.org/~mech Technical Director/Webmaster Electronic Frontier Foundation voice: +1 415 436 9333 x105 fax: +1 415 436 9993 EFF, 454 Shotwell St. San Francisco CA 94110 USA From ckirby at sfchronicle.com Mon Aug 6 16:48:17 2001 From: ckirby at sfchronicle.com (Carrie Kirby) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] mumia Message-ID: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D461C@sfc-exmail1> i'm sure the free mumia people would hate it too, if any of them read the business section. but my goal is to introduce the situation to our (mainstream) readers while making it palatable enough that they'll look at it. take my poor attempt at a joke as a spoonful of sugar to make the medicine go down. although i can't say for sure that it worked -- i haven't received any email today from "average readers" who just heard about dmitry from my article. only from people who are already involved in the issue. carrie -----Original Message----- From: Paul Callahan [mailto:callahanpb@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 4:30 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing People also post signs saying "Free kittens." So you'll have to do a little better than that. Please don't take this as criticism of the article, which seemed very balanced and reasonable to me. It's just a criticism of your glib retort. :) I can also understand why some people here might view it as counterproductive to throw Mumia into the mix. --Paul --- Carrie Kirby wrote: > uh, people are always going around telling people to > free mumia? > > -----Original Message----- > From: alfee cube [mailto:sisgeek@yahoo.com] > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 4:00 PM > To: Carrie Kirby; free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing > > > hey carrie, > > > what does mumia have to do with dmitry? > > > --- Carrie Kirby wrote: > > does anyone know if Dmitry is staying with the guy > > in whose custody he was > > released to? how about that guy's contact info? > i'd > > like to call him if just > > to confirm the spelling of his name. > > > > carrie > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From callahanpb at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 17:01:56 2001 From: callahanpb at yahoo.com (Paul Callahan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] mumia In-Reply-To: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D461C@sfc-exmail1> Message-ID: <20010807000156.71087.qmail@web13107.mail.yahoo.com> FWIW, I think it was an effective hook and probably did get the attention of people who haven't been reading everything they can get their hands on about Sklyarov. If they didn't write back, well, probably anyone who cared enough to write back is already aware of the story. That has to be a first, though: mentioning Mumia to make something palatable to a mainstream audience. --Paul --- Carrie Kirby wrote: > i'm sure the free mumia people would hate it too, if > any of them read the > business section. but my goal is to introduce the > situation to our > (mainstream) readers while making it palatable > enough that they'll look at > it. take my poor attempt at a joke as a spoonful of > sugar to make the > medicine go down. although i can't say for sure that > it worked -- i haven't > received any email today from "average readers" who > just heard about dmitry > from my article. only from people who are already > involved in the issue. > > carrie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Callahan [mailto:callahanpb@yahoo.com] > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 4:30 PM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing > > > People also post signs saying "Free kittens." > So you'll have to do a little better than that. > > Please don't take this as criticism of the article, > which seemed very balanced and reasonable to me. > It's > just a criticism of your glib retort. :) > > I can also understand why some people here might > view > it as counterproductive to throw Mumia into the mix. > > --Paul > > --- Carrie Kirby wrote: > > uh, people are always going around telling people > to > > free mumia? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: alfee cube [mailto:sisgeek@yahoo.com] > > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 4:00 PM > > To: Carrie Kirby; free-sklyarov@zork.net > > Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing > > > > > > hey carrie, > > > > > > what does mumia have to do with dmitry? > > > > > > --- Carrie Kirby wrote: > > > does anyone know if Dmitry is staying with the > guy > > > in whose custody he was > > > released to? how about that guy's contact info? > > i'd > > > like to call him if just > > > to confirm the spelling of his name. > > > > > > carrie > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > > with Yahoo! Messenger > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 17:31:29 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] mumia In-Reply-To: <20010807000156.71087.qmail@web13107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010807003129.79940.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com> yes - balanced:) but, i always just took my medicine based on mom's assurances it would help - to this day i don't eat much raw sugar:) --- Paul Callahan wrote: > FWIW, I think it was an effective hook and probably > did get the attention of people who haven't been > reading everything they can get their hands on about > Sklyarov. If they didn't write back, well, probably > anyone who cared enough to write back is already > aware of the story. > > That has to be a first, though: mentioning Mumia to > make something palatable to a mainstream audience. > > --Paul > > --- Carrie Kirby wrote: > > i'm sure the free mumia people would hate it too, > if > > any of them read the > > business section. but my goal is to introduce the > > situation to our > > (mainstream) readers while making it palatable > > enough that they'll look at > > it. take my poor attempt at a joke as a spoonful > of > > sugar to make the > > medicine go down. although i can't say for sure > that > > it worked -- i haven't > > received any email today from "average readers" > who > > just heard about dmitry > > from my article. only from people who are already > > involved in the issue. > > > > carrie > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Callahan [mailto:callahanpb@yahoo.com] > > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 4:30 PM > > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > > Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing > > > > > > People also post signs saying "Free kittens." > > So you'll have to do a little better than that. > > > > Please don't take this as criticism of the > article, > > which seemed very balanced and reasonable to me. > > It's > > just a criticism of your glib retort. :) > > > > I can also understand why some people here might > > view > > it as counterproductive to throw Mumia into the > mix. > > > > --Paul > > > > --- Carrie Kirby wrote: > > > uh, people are always going around telling > people > > to > > > free mumia? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: alfee cube [mailto:sisgeek@yahoo.com] > > > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 4:00 PM > > > To: Carrie Kirby; free-sklyarov@zork.net > > > Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing > > > > > > > > > hey carrie, > > > > > > > > > what does mumia have to do with dmitry? > > > > > > > > > --- Carrie Kirby wrote: > > > > does anyone know if Dmitry is staying with the > > guy > > > > in whose custody he was > > > > released to? how about that guy's contact > info? > > > i'd > > > > like to call him if just > > > > to confirm the spelling of his name. > > > > > > > > carrie > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Make international calls for as low as > $.04/minute > > > with Yahoo! Messenger > > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > > with Yahoo! Messenger > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ckirby at sfchronicle.com Mon Aug 6 17:35:39 2001 From: ckirby at sfchronicle.com (Carrie Kirby) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] mumia Message-ID: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D4625@sfc-exmail1> finally, a free mumia person who reads the business section: --Ms. Kirby, I believe you used bad judgement in writing "Forget Freeing Mumia. 'Free Dmitry' is the hip, new rallying cry among Bay Area activists" in the lead for your piece, Martyr or criminal? With those three words, you managed to trivialize Mumia's fight for freedom from Death Row to a B-list celebrity flavor of the month. Many believe that there were holes in the government's case against Mumia. The campaign to free Mumia is not because it is the fashionably hip thing to do. The campaign to free Mumia is growing because progressive people know it is the RIGHT thing to do. Before you reference Mumia Abu Jamal again for an article, I suggest you educate yourself and read Mumia's autobiography, Live From Death Row. Sincerely, (name deleted) -----Original Message----- From: alfee cube [mailto:sisgeek@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 5:31 PM To: Paul Callahan; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] mumia yes - balanced:) but, i always just took my medicine based on mom's assurances it would help - to this day i don't eat much raw sugar:) --- Paul Callahan wrote: > FWIW, I think it was an effective hook and probably > did get the attention of people who haven't been > reading everything they can get their hands on about > Sklyarov. If they didn't write back, well, probably > anyone who cared enough to write back is already > aware of the story. > > That has to be a first, though: mentioning Mumia to > make something palatable to a mainstream audience. > > --Paul > > --- Carrie Kirby wrote: > > i'm sure the free mumia people would hate it too, > if > > any of them read the > > business section. but my goal is to introduce the > > situation to our > > (mainstream) readers while making it palatable > > enough that they'll look at > > it. take my poor attempt at a joke as a spoonful > of > > sugar to make the > > medicine go down. although i can't say for sure > that > > it worked -- i haven't > > received any email today from "average readers" > who > > just heard about dmitry > > from my article. only from people who are already > > involved in the issue. > > > > carrie > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Callahan [mailto:callahanpb@yahoo.com] > > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 4:30 PM > > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > > Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing > > > > > > People also post signs saying "Free kittens." > > So you'll have to do a little better than that. > > > > Please don't take this as criticism of the > article, > > which seemed very balanced and reasonable to me. > > It's > > just a criticism of your glib retort. :) > > > > I can also understand why some people here might > > view > > it as counterproductive to throw Mumia into the > mix. > > > > --Paul > > > > --- Carrie Kirby wrote: > > > uh, people are always going around telling > people > > to > > > free mumia? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: alfee cube [mailto:sisgeek@yahoo.com] > > > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 4:00 PM > > > To: Carrie Kirby; free-sklyarov@zork.net > > > Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing > > > > > > > > > hey carrie, > > > > > > > > > what does mumia have to do with dmitry? > > > > > > > > > --- Carrie Kirby wrote: > > > > does anyone know if Dmitry is staying with the > > guy > > > > in whose custody he was > > > > released to? how about that guy's contact > info? > > > i'd > > > > like to call him if just > > > > to confirm the spelling of his name. > > > > > > > > carrie > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Make international calls for as low as > $.04/minute > > > with Yahoo! Messenger > > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > > with Yahoo! Messenger > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From ben at kalifornia.com Mon Aug 6 17:34:01 2001 From: ben at kalifornia.com (Ben Ford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:29 2005 Subject: [OT] [free-sklyarov] mumia References: <20010807000156.71087.qmail@web13107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B6F3779.1070006@kalifornia.com> I thought it was kinda funny. Regardless, this is not the appropriate venue in which to critique Ms. Kirby's writing style. -b -- Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are going to burn in Hell forever. From paul at paultopia.net Mon Aug 6 17:40:00 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fair use "rights" In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010805204704.00ace1a0@mail.jlizard.com> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010805210147.03236210@mail.paultopia.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20010805153335.00ab7378@mail.jlizard.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010806182639.03236970@mail.paultopia.net> At 10:10 PM 8/5/01, Jay Allen wrote: > I'm intrigued and would love to hear more... I agree with James > that such an argument would be central to getting the DMCA overturned in > a court of law. Well, I think the clearest argument is one that has been expressed by many people many times (incl. Larry Lessig in a few places I think) -- the fed gov't's authority to create copyright, as an exception to the standard first amendment rights (copyright, being more specific, trumps the first amendment since usual rule of construction is the more specific trumps the less specific, even if the less specific was enacted later, absent clear intent to repeal the original more specific, but the first amendment, for a similar reason, trumps the commerce clause), is conditioned on the purpose being to promote useful sciences, etc. Any copyright bill which doesn't bear at least a rational relationship to those purposes (and eliminating fair use actually is contrary to those purposes) is unconstitutional. Another possible argument (weaker, in my mind), involves the first amendment as modification to the copyright authority, examine intent of founders when first amendment was passed, note that they saw extremely limited role for copyright (see jefferson quotes etc. posted elsewhere on this list), conclude that expanded role is muy unconstitutional. -Paul -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From sisgeek at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 18:02:41 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] mumia In-Reply-To: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D4625@sfc-exmail1> Message-ID: <20010807010241.83866.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com> wellllllll - your assumption that they would object too proved correct. --- Carrie Kirby wrote: > finally, a free mumia person who reads the business > section: > > --Ms. Kirby, > > I believe you used bad judgement in writing "Forget > Freeing Mumia. 'Free > Dmitry' is the hip, new rallying cry among Bay Area > activists" in the lead > for your piece, Martyr or criminal? With those three > words, you managed to > trivialize Mumia's fight for freedom from Death Row > to a B-list celebrity > flavor of the month. Many believe that there were > holes in the government's > case against Mumia. The campaign to free Mumia is > not because it is the > fashionably hip thing to do. The campaign to free > Mumia is growing because > progressive people know it is the RIGHT thing to > do. Before you reference > > Mumia Abu Jamal again for an article, I suggest you > educate yourself and > read Mumia's autobiography, Live From Death Row. > > Sincerely, > > (name deleted) > > -----Original Message----- > From: alfee cube [mailto:sisgeek@yahoo.com] > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 5:31 PM > To: Paul Callahan; free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] mumia > > > yes - balanced:) > > but, i always just took my medicine based on mom's > assurances it would help - to this day i don't eat > much raw sugar:) > > --- Paul Callahan wrote: > > FWIW, I think it was an effective hook and > probably > > did get the attention of people who haven't been > > reading everything they can get their hands on > about > > Sklyarov. If they didn't write back, well, > probably > > anyone who cared enough to write back is already > > aware of the story. > > > > That has to be a first, though: mentioning Mumia > to > > make something palatable to a mainstream audience. > > > > --Paul > > > > --- Carrie Kirby wrote: > > > i'm sure the free mumia people would hate it > too, > > if > > > any of them read the > > > business section. but my goal is to introduce > the > > > situation to our > > > (mainstream) readers while making it palatable > > > enough that they'll look at > > > it. take my poor attempt at a joke as a spoonful > > of > > > sugar to make the > > > medicine go down. although i can't say for sure > > that > > > it worked -- i haven't > > > received any email today from "average readers" > > who > > > just heard about dmitry > > > from my article. only from people who are > already > > > involved in the issue. > > > > > > carrie > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Callahan > [mailto:callahanpb@yahoo.com] > > > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 4:30 PM > > > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > > > Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing > > > > > > > > > People also post signs saying "Free kittens." > > > So you'll have to do a little better than that. > > > > > > Please don't take this as criticism of the > > article, > > > which seemed very balanced and reasonable to me. > > > > It's > > > just a criticism of your glib retort. :) > > > > > > I can also understand why some people here might > > > view > > > it as counterproductive to throw Mumia into the > > mix. > > > > > > --Paul > > > > > > --- Carrie Kirby wrote: > > > > uh, people are always going around telling > > people > > > to > > > > free mumia? > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: alfee cube [mailto:sisgeek@yahoo.com] > > > > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 4:00 PM > > > > To: Carrie Kirby; free-sklyarov@zork.net > > > > Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail > hearing > > > > > > > > > > > > hey carrie, > > > > > > > > > > > > what does mumia have to do with dmitry? > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Carrie Kirby > wrote: > > > > > does anyone know if Dmitry is staying with > the > > > guy > > > > > in whose custody he was > > > > > released to? how about that guy's contact > > info? > > > > i'd > > > > > like to call him if just > > > > > to confirm the spelling of his name. > > > > > > > > > > carrie > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > > > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > > > > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > Make international calls for as low as > > $.04/minute > > > > with Yahoo! Messenger > > > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Make international calls for as low as > $.04/minute > > > with Yahoo! Messenger > > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > > with Yahoo! Messenger > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 18:10:33 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:29 2005 Subject: [OT] [free-sklyarov] mumia In-Reply-To: <3B6F3779.1070006@kalifornia.com> Message-ID: <20010807011033.74448.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> hi ben, just think of it as a breather (or sugar) before the next battle (or medicine:) --- Ben Ford wrote: > I thought it was kinda funny. Regardless, this is > not the appropriate > venue in which to critique Ms. Kirby's writing > style. > > -b > > -- > Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as > we do, you are > going to burn in Hell forever. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From mlc67 at columbia.edu Mon Aug 6 18:18:14 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] dmitry out yet? Message-ID: <20010806181814.G27383@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Can anyone confirm that Dmitry actually has left the jail yet? (The approximate time when he left would be nice if you know.) I know it's supposed to be some time today. Reuters is saying that he's already been released, but they've been wrong about his precise location before. multan dankon, mike -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // current location: berkeley, ca, us // ph: +1 (646) 382-7220 // FREE DMITRY! See http://freesklyarov.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010806/7b26c6bd/attachment.pgp From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Mon Aug 6 18:22:27 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] dmitry out yet? In-Reply-To: <20010806181814.G27383@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, mike castleman wrote: > Can anyone confirm that Dmitry actually has left the jail yet? (The > approximate time when he left would be nice if you know.) I know it's > supposed to be some time today. Reuters is saying that he's already > been released, but they've been wrong about his precise location > before. http://130.65.212.26:8080/sjrally2.jsp Brad's message about this was dated Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:08:27 -0700 (PDT), so that'd be an upper bound on when Dmitry was released. My understanding is that he is now in Cupertino. > multan dankon, > mike nedankinde, -- -alexf From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Mon Aug 6 18:31:46 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Restrictions on Dmitry Message-ID: I've been off the net for 18 hours. Apologies if this has been answered already. Is there someplace that lists what restrictions there are on Dmitry? For example, can he leave the local area? The state? James S. Huggins From mlc67 at columbia.edu Mon Aug 6 18:42:25 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Restrictions on Dmitry In-Reply-To: ; from FreeSklyarov@ZName.com on Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 08:31:46PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010806184225.H27383@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> On Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 08:31:46PM -0500, James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov) wrote: > > I've been off the net for 18 hours. Apologies if this has been answered > already. > > Is there someplace that lists what restrictions there are on Dmitry? He cannot leave the Northern District of California. That includes, among other places, San Jose, San Francisco, and Oakland. He also has to check in periodically with the court. It's my understanding that "pretrial services" (whoever that is) might be able to impose additional restrictions. Further, although it's not strictly a requirement, his attorney indicated that it'd be a bad idea for Dmitry to give any public speeches. Anyone who knows more care to clarify any of this? > > For example, can he leave the local area? The state? > > > James S. Huggins > -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // current location: berkeley, ca, us // ph: +1 (646) 382-7220 // FREE DMITRY! See http://freesklyarov.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010806/4aeb1c1b/attachment.pgp From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Mon Aug 6 18:43:57 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Restrictions on Dmitry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov) wrote: > I've been off the net for 18 hours. Apologies if this has been answered > already. > > Is there someplace that lists what restrictions there are on Dmitry? > > For example, can he leave the local area? The state? Ed Hintz gave the full list of what I heard in court in his original email: http://zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/2001-August/003250.html In particular, 1) He had to post $50K bail (done) 2) He has to restrict travel to the Northern District of California; to the best of my understanding, this includes a substantial part of Northern California (since the 4 districts in the state are "Northern", "Central", "Eastern", and "Southern"; although I can't seem to find a map of the boundaries anywhere) 3) He has to check in with pre-trial officer(sp?) at least once a week (in person or by telephone, this was to be determined offline by said pretrial officer). -- -alexf From danny at spesh.com Mon Aug 6 18:43:52 2001 From: danny at spesh.com (Danny O'Brien) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Restrictions on Dmitry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010806184352.H5145@spesh.com> On Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 08:31:46PM -0500, James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov) wrote: > > I've been off the net for 18 hours. Apologies if this has been answered > already. > > Is there someplace that lists what restrictions there are on Dmitry? > > For example, can he leave the local area? The state? He's restricted to the Northern District of California, which stretches from the Oregon border to Monterey, and from the Pacific Ocean in the west nearly to Sacramento in the east. http://www.usaondca.com/home.html He has to check in with the court at least weekly, although I believe he can do this by telephone. d. From sisgeek at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 18:53:30 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Restrictions on Dmitry In-Reply-To: <20010806184225.H27383@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <20010807015330.89887.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com> those interested in pretrial services: http://www.co.santa-clara.ca.us/handbook/Pretrial.htm --- mike castleman wrote: > On Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 08:31:46PM -0500, James S. > Huggins (Free Sklyarov) wrote: > > > > I've been off the net for 18 hours. Apologies if > this has been answered > > already. > > > > Is there someplace that lists what restrictions > there are on Dmitry? > > He cannot leave the Northern District of California. > That includes, > among other places, San Jose, San Francisco, and > Oakland. He also has > to check in periodically with the court. It's my > understanding that > "pretrial services" (whoever that is) might be able > to impose > additional restrictions. Further, although it's not > strictly a > requirement, his attorney indicated that it'd be a > bad idea for Dmitry > to give any public speeches. Anyone who knows more > care to clarify any > of this? > > > > > For example, can he leave the local area? The > state? > > > > > > James S. Huggins > > > > -- > // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu > // current location: berkeley, ca, us > // ph: +1 (646) 382-7220 > // FREE DMITRY! See http://freesklyarov.org/ > > ATTACHMENT part 2 application/pgp-signature __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From mlc67 at columbia.edu Mon Aug 6 18:58:22 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Restrictions on Dmitry In-Reply-To: <20010807015330.89887.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com>; from sisgeek@yahoo.com on Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 06:53:30PM -0700 References: <20010806184225.H27383@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> <20010807015330.89887.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010806185822.K27383@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> It should be clarified that the given website is for Santa Clara County pretrial services; I assume that the Federal Courts have their own version which probably does more or less the same thing. On Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 06:53:30PM -0700, alfee cube wrote: > those interested in pretrial services: > > http://www.co.santa-clara.ca.us/handbook/Pretrial.htm > -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // current location: berkeley, ca, us // ph: +1 (646) 382-7220 // FREE DMITRY! See http://freesklyarov.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010806/e1283fb1/attachment.pgp From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Mon Aug 6 19:02:35 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing In-Reply-To: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D4615@sfc-exmail1> Message-ID: The spelling that that gentleman gave in court was Sergey Osokine (first name might be slightly off, the judge only asked for last name to be spelled). However, I'm sure this man values his privacy, or what little is left of it, so even if someone has the contact info for him, it's probably best to not post it publicly. On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, Carrie Kirby wrote: > does anyone know if Dmitry is staying with the guy in whose custody he was > released to? how about that guy's contact info? i'd like to call him if just > to confirm the spelling of his name. > > carrie > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- -alexf From sisgeek at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 19:09:52 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Restrictions on Dmitry In-Reply-To: <20010806185822.K27383@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <20010807020952.80652.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com> yes - thanks mike - all i have at this time is the address for federal - for some reason they do not list a website? District: Northern District of California Court Unit: U.S. Pretrial Services Street Address: 450 Golden Gate Avenue City: San Francisco State: CA Zip: 94102 Telephone: (415) 436-7500 Internet Site: i will call them tomorrow - but i think in the meantime the sc site will serve as a proxy. --- mike castleman wrote: > It should be clarified that the given website is for > Santa Clara > County pretrial services; I assume that the Federal > Courts have their > own version which probably does more or less the > same thing. > > On Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 06:53:30PM -0700, alfee cube > wrote: > > those interested in pretrial services: > > > > > http://www.co.santa-clara.ca.us/handbook/Pretrial.htm > > > > -- > // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu > // current location: berkeley, ca, us > // ph: +1 (646) 382-7220 > // FREE DMITRY! See http://freesklyarov.org/ > > ATTACHMENT part 2 application/pgp-signature __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From kris at firstworld.net Mon Aug 6 19:14:27 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing In-Reply-To: References: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D4615@sfc-exmail1> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010806190358.01408300@pop.firstworld.net> At 07:02 PM 8/6/2001 -0700, Alex Fabrikant wrote: >The spelling that that gentleman gave in court was Sergey Osokine (first >name might be slightly off, the judge only asked for last name to be >spelled). However, I'm sure this man values his privacy, or what little is >left of it, so even if someone has the contact info for him, it's probably >best to not post it publicly. Yahoo Personal Search spells his first name as Serguei - which they probably got from the local phone records. And I agree with you that unless you have a good reason, it's probably best not to bother Mr. Osokine right now. Kris From bobds at blorch.org Mon Aug 6 20:07:55 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [sneakums@zork.net: [CrackMonkey] Dumb quote of the day] In-Reply-To: <20010806115225.K11634@zork.net> References: <20010806115225.K11634@zork.net> Message-ID: <01080620075501.31128@bitworks> On Monday 06 August 2001 11:52, you wrote: > ----- Forwarded message from Sean Neakums ----- > > > Book publishers say they need a tough law like the Digital > > Millennium Copyright Act or they'll never be able to make money > > selling electronic books. Ummm...they need more than that. They need a product somebody actually WANTS or they'll never be able to make money selling anything. Attention, publishers: Theft of e-books is not the problem. The problem is that nobody wants them bad enough to BOTHER stealing them. > > If programmers are allowed to crack eBook > > encryption, the next Napster-style trading system will be exchanging > > copies of "Moby Dick" instead of songs by Moby, they warn. Interesting that they should choose that particular example--seeing as to how Moby Dick was in the public domain before the current generation of fratboy publishing executives was even born. The "threat" is that people will exchange things that don't belong to publishers in the first place? Do tell. -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Mon Aug 6 20:14:07 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [sneakums@zork.net: [CrackMonkey] Dumb quote of the day] In-Reply-To: <01080620075501.31128@bitworks> Message-ID: > > Book publishers say they need a tough law like the Digital > > Millennium Copyright Act or they'll never be able to make money > > selling electronic books. And the point is? If they can't make money selling electronic books maybe they shouldn't sell electronic books. James S. Huggins From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Mon Aug 6 20:24:52 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] rally & protest site organizers please contact me References: Message-ID: <018301c11ef0$89d13ca0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, Stanton! > If you are a demostration organizer and/or are running one of the > *.freesklyarov.org local sites, please drop me a line and tell me > who you are, which site/locale, etc. Want to be able to reach all > of you on short notice :) Moscow, Russia demonstration on August, 30 organizer http://www.porsche.ru/dmitry/ - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://hscool.org/ From paul at paultopia.net Mon Aug 6 20:36:09 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [sneakums@zork.net: [CrackMonkey] Dumb quote of the day] In-Reply-To: References: <01080620075501.31128@bitworks> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010806213530.03237760@mail.paultopia.net> At 09:14 PM 8/6/01, James S. Huggins \(Free Sklyarov\) wrote: >If they can't make money selling electronic books maybe they shouldn't sell >electronic books. They're not. If the little vocabulary games mean anything on this list, that's the one thing they're not selling. -Paul -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From rms at privacyfoundation.org Mon Aug 6 20:47:42 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20010806190358.01408300@pop.firstworld.net> Message-ID: <009801c11ef3$b80e0fa0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Serguei works with Bill Joy on Sun's P2P project Jxta. More info can be found here: http://www.jxta.org/project/www/bios/BioArchive.html Richard -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net] On Behalf Of Kris Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 10:14 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Dima's bail hearing At 07:02 PM 8/6/2001 -0700, Alex Fabrikant wrote: >The spelling that that gentleman gave in court was Sergey Osokine (first >name might be slightly off, the judge only asked for last name to be >spelled). However, I'm sure this man values his privacy, or what little is >left of it, so even if someone has the contact info for him, it's probably >best to not post it publicly. Yahoo Personal Search spells his first name as Serguei - which they probably got from the local phone records. And I agree with you that unless you have a good reason, it's probably best not to bother Mr. Osokine right now. Kris _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From gbroiles at well.com Mon Aug 6 20:59:06 2001 From: gbroiles at well.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fwd: Public Records in USA v. Sklyarov Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010806205836.037725f0@pop3.norton.antivirus> >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 22:00:52 -0700 >To: cypherpunks@lne.com >From: John Young >Subject: Public Records in USA v. Sklyarov > >Cryptome has obtained 60 pages of public records filed in >USA v. Dmitry Sklyarov: five pages of Court documents and >55 pages of submissions in support of Dmitry's character and >achievements. They are offered in compressed TIFF format: > >Court Documents: > >Order Setting Conditions of Release and Appearance Bond, August 6, 2001 > > http://cryptome.org/ds-bond-order.tif (1 page, 87KB) > >Magistrate Judge Minute Order, August 6, 2001 > > http://cryptome.org/ds-minute-order.tif (1 page, 83KB) > >Warrant for Arrest, July 11, 2001 > > http://cryptome.org/ds-arrest-warrant.tif (1 page, 43KB) > >USA Motion to Seal the Criminal Complaint and Arrest Warrant, July 11, 2001 > > http://cryptome.org/ds-motion-to-seal.tif (1 page, 42KB) > >Sealing Order by Magistrate Patricia Trumbull, July 11, 2001 > > http://cryptome.org/ds-order-to-seal.tif (1 page, 28KB) > >These five are available in a Zipped file: > > http://cryptome.org/sklyarov-orders.zip (5 pages, 276KB) > >The Criminal Complaint was also in the public records but >heretofore published: > > http://cryptome.org/usa-v-sklyarov.htm > >Submissions in Support of Dmitry: > >English and Russian documents -- consulate letters, certificates >of education and achievement, letters of colleagues, friends and >Elcomsoft clients -- in a Zipped file of compressed TIFF images: > > http://cryptome.org/sklyarov-vouch.zip (55 pages, 2.82MB) From crism at maden.org Mon Aug 6 21:44:18 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Libertarian Party/SF article Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010806214254.00a89d90@mail.maden.org> The following article appeared in the August issue of _Golden Gate Libertarian_, the newsletter of the Libertarian Party of San Francisco. It should be appearing on-line at lpsf.org in the next week. -crism Dmitry Sklyarov and the DMCA As you may have read in the news over the last few weeks, a Russian programmer named Dmitry Sklyarov was arrested in Las Vegas by the FBI following the DefCon computer security conference. He was charged with trafficking in a copyright protection circumvention device, which is a criminal infraction under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998. The DMCA, as it is known, is a nasty little bit of legislation. Most notably, it outlaws the publication of information on how to circumvent copy-protection schemes; Jon Johanssen, a teenager in Norway, was charged for figuring out how simple the protection on DVD movies is. Users of the free Linux operating system could not play DVDs on their own computers because no authorized company had written a "driver" for them - with Johanssen's scheme, they could. The Motion Picture Association of America not only dealt harshly with Johanssen, but sued the hacker magazine _2600_ for even linking to Johanssen's code from their Web site. Princeton University professor Edward Felten was also threatened with a lawsuit if he presented his investigation into a file protection scheme, proposed by the music industry, at a conference. The DMCA does have "fair use" provisions, but they are much narrower than the copyright law that preceded DMCA's passage. The fair use doctrine was developed to balance free speech rights against copyrights - e.g., satirical uses or parodies of copyrighted work, or short excerpts in a critical review are permitted under fair use. Under the DMCA, a publisher can take those rights away from a user via technology, and it becomes illegal to develop a tool to restore those rights to the information's consumer. As a Ph.D. candidate at a Moscow state university, Sklyarov (pronounced skul-YAHR-off) investigated the security of Adobe Systems' "Acrobat eBook Reader" software. This software enables publishers to deliver "ebooks" that are locked to one specific computer - the end-user can not copy the book to another computer, nor print it or have the text read aloud by the computer if the publisher has not specifically enabled those features. (In other words, blind customers may not be able to legally use a product they purchase.) Adobe's product has not been doing very well; the on-line customer discussion fora are filled with comments about the inadequacy of the product (many using a four-letter verb that starts with "s"). In the course of his investigations, Sklyarov found that Adobe's security was very poor, and that it was a simple matter to intercept the unprotected book when the purchaser entered the enabling password. He developed a program that exploited this shortcoming. This enables a user who has legitimately purchased a book to create an unlocked copy, which they can then print, copy to another computer, or even publish across the Internet to thousands of other readers. Sklyarov's employer, a Russian company called ElcomSoft, specializes in password-recovery tools. For instance, if you lock an Excel spreadsheet, but then forget the password (or worse, your accountant who had the password quits), you can buy a tool from ElcomSoft to recover the data. The FBI is a significant customer of these tools, which have obvious law enforcement applications. ElcomSoft dubbed Sklyarov's tool the "Advanced eBook Processor", or "AEBPR", and put it up for sale, using a US-based credit card processing Web site. On the June 25, Adobe filed a cease-and-desist notice with ElcomSoft, giving them five days to pull the program from sale. On June 26, Adobe filed a criminal complaint with the US Attorney against Dmitry Sklyarov, as the author of the program. Adobe knew that Sklyarov would be coming to the United States to speak at DefCon, and advised the FBI of this fact. He was arrested in due course on July 16. This outraged the electronic community, for a variety of reasons. The Electronic Frontier Foundation, located here in San Francisco, got involved, and activists organized a boycott of Adobe products and demonstrations against Sklyarov's arrest around the world. On Monday, July 23, demonstrators rallied in Boston, St. Paul, Seattle, Salt Lake City, Moscow, New York, and most significantly, outside Adobe's headquarters in San Jos? while the EFF met with Adobe's leadership inside. The end result of the pressure from the demonstrators, the boycott, and press coverage, together with the EFF's negotiations, was that Adobe dropped the criminal complaint and called for Sklyarov's release in a joint press release with the EFF. Unfortunately, this is a criminal case, and it remains up to the Department of Justice to actually free Sklyarov. Another protest was held on Monday, July 30, at the San Francisco at the Federal Building as well as in several other cities around the nation. A protest at the US Embassy in London got significant media attention on Friday, August 3. As I write this, we are preparing for a rally at Sklyarov's bail hearing in San Jose for Monday, August 6. There are several important reasons to set him free: 1) He is charged with trafficking in forbidden technology. He did not sell the program; his employer did. Although three ElcomSoft employees were at the conference, including the president, it was Sklyarov who was arrested. It seems obvious that an example is being made of him. 2) The DMCA specifically allows for narrow fair use exemptions from the civil and criminal violations it defines. AEBPR will only unlock a book legitimately purchased by the user; it can not be used to steal others' books. It is thus probable that the program does not even violate the law. 3) The DMCA is a very bad law. It has a demonstrably chilling effect on speech; one colleague, while a co-worker of mine at an ebook company, did the same research as Sklyarov. He did not publish his work, though, and is now much more careful about what he publishes. Foreign scientists are beginning a boycott of US conferences for fear of prosecution and also in solidarity with Sklyarov and Johanssen. It also punishes research, rather than copyright violation; since AEBPR only unlocks a user's legitimately purchased copy, it is the user who must make the decision to pirate the unlocked copy. AEBPR is a tool with legitimate and illegal uses, like a lockpick, a crowbar, a car, and a gun. Outlawing the tool does not help. However, there are other DMCA test cases, civil ones, working through the court system, and it is not important to keep Sklyarov as a hostage for a test case. Let him go. This is an important Libertarian issue as well, for a few reasons. 1) The rights violations mentioned above - Sklyarov's right to do research, publish his findings, and create tools with legitimate uses, and the public's right to fair use of information they purchase. 2) It is an excellent example of the dangers of big government. Adobe, faced with an inferior product and public criticism of their security, used the government to bully its critics by proxy, having one of them arrested. The use of criminal charges as a substitute for competition in the marketplace is unacceptable. A small government is not a useful tool for a corporation, and would thus avoid similar abuses. 3) The community response, the boycott, and Adobe's subsequent relenting and call for Sklyarov's release are a case study in how the free market can be used as a tool to effect social change without regulation. Interested Libertarians are encouraged to join the protests and voice our support for free speech and our opposition to abusive laws and their enforcement. Please see freesklyarov.org for up-to-date information, or contact the author of this article directly at crism@maden.org or 504-8677. The EFF's Web site is eff.org, and it includes information about Sklyarov, Johanssen, Felten, and the DMCA. From rabbi at quickie.net Mon Aug 6 23:01:51 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] News Articles In-Reply-To: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D4617@sfc-exmail1> Message-ID: Folks, Sorry I've been quite on the list lately. Been quite busy. I want to first of all thank everyone who's been putting in a lot of hard work over the past few weeks. I'm quite pleased with how things have gone thus far. I did want to comment, after reading some of the recent discussions. There have been *many* excellent articles about the DMCA, Dmitry, the protests, and the controversy regarding this case. There are bound to be some bad articles. Not all reporters are good at what they do, and not good reporters write good articles every time they cover a story. Those who were late to the party and are just now becoming aware of this story are going to be trying hard to find a new angle to spin. So, get used to seeing non sequitors for headlines. It's inevitable. You really aren't going to gain much by badgering the reporters to explain the reasoning behind their sensational loose associations. All in all, most of the reporting I have seen thus far has been excellent. Len From prostoalex at hotbox.ru Mon Aug 6 23:06:44 2001 From: prostoalex at hotbox.ru (Alexander Moskalyuk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] news links Message-ID: <200108070606.f7766ik49107@www2.mailru.com> Russian in Digital Copyright Case Is Released on Bail http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/07/technology/07HACK.htm l Russian Hacker Freed on Bail Pending U.S. Trial http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010806/wr/tech_hacker _dc_11.html Russian Programmer Is Released - But Not Free http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/is/20010806/bs/russian_pro grammer_is_released_-_but_not_free_1.html Sklyarov Released On $50,000 Bail http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/08/06/1941228 California Backers Push to Free Russian Hacker http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010727/tc/tech_hacker _dc_5.html Adobe E-Book Hacker Released http://wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45870,00.html Civil Rights or Copyrights? Hack an eBook, Go to Jail http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi? file=/gate/archive/2001/08/02/sklyarov.DTL Russian programmer freed on bail http://www.msnbc.com/news/610240.asp?0dm=C14NT Russian hacker released on bail after U.S. arrest http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/industry/08/06/hacker.rele ase.reut/index.html Best regards, Alexander Moskalyuk http://www.moskalyuk.com/ From david.haworth at altavista.net Mon Aug 6 23:10:12 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [sneakums@zork.net: [CrackMonkey] Dumb quote of the day] In-Reply-To: <20010806115225.K11634@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 11:52:25AM -0700 References: <20010806115225.K11634@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010807081012.A3639@3soft.de> On Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 11:52:25AM -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote: > "Some years ago -- never mind how long precisely -- copyrights used to > expire." > > ----- Forwarded message from Sean Neakums ----- > > Courtesy of Robin * Slomkowski: > > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2001/08/06/BU209590.DTL > > > Book publishers say they need a tough law like the Digital > > Millennium Copyright Act or they'll never be able to make money > > selling electronic books. If programmers are allowed to crack eBook > > encryption, the next Napster-style trading system will be exchanging > > copies of "Moby Dick" instead of songs by Moby, they warn. "Moby Dick" by Herman Melville (1819 - 1891) Even with the most recent distortions of copyright, this one has been in the public domain for 30 years. If the publishers continue to believe they own everything, they'll make it easier to get rid of the DMCA. Does anyone know where that quote came from? -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From larsg at eurorights.org Tue Aug 7 01:09:00 2001 From: larsg at eurorights.org (Lars Gaarden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP response quoted in a previous thread References: <200108062010.NAA20316@shell3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <3B6FA21C.1000006@eurorights.org> Ethan Straffin wrote: > Very much so -- which is why I agree only partially with your statement > that DMCA proponents understand the technological issues. They are > perceptive enough to recognize that encryption-based DRM is inherently > circumventable, but they are *not* perceptive enough to recognize that the > Internet makes it well-nigh impossible to prosecute anyone who doesn't > want to be prosecuted. Individuals who are technologically savvy enough > to compromise encryption systems are, by and large, also technologically > savvy enough to share what they've learned anonymously. So why not try to > punish them anyway? Because the only way you stand a chance of doing so, > once the lessons learned from the 2600 and Sklyarov cases become common > knowledge, is to inaugurate a new era in which Echelon-style surveillance > is everywhere, the "safe harbor" and "common carrier" defenses for ISPs > are nonexistent, and Internet privacy is a thing of the past. Even more > than the prosecutions themselves, and the chilling effect on free speech, > *this* is what scares me about the DMCA: it's an authoritarian time bomb > wrapped in pretty free-market packaging. The interesting thing to note here is that Echelon is under quite heavy fire. The spooks have wanted for years to deploy a complete Internet surveilance system, but have been stopped by the privacy concerns that have been raised. However, when the copyright goons want to do the exact same thing.... Seems like the US has a government that thinks that national security is less important than protecting a few large publishers. -- "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead. From crism at maden.org Tue Aug 7 01:44:30 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Headline juxtaposition Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010807014210.00a56940@mail.maden.org> Reading the NandO Times (), I found it interesting that Dmitry's bail release was right next to "Gunmaker not liable for use of weapons in 1993 shootings, California court rules". The analogy between the liability of a gun manufacturer for illegal uses, and the liability of AEBPR's author for potential illegal uses, seems obvious. -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From crism at maden.org Tue Aug 7 04:03:35 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Help: Adobe saying suing Elcom useless? Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010807035938.00a9b560@mail.maden.org> I'm writing up a press release and I'm trying to find a quote. At one point, I'm pretty sure, someone from Adobe (the corporate counsel?) said that they pursued criminal action because they were pretty sure they wouldn't be able to get money from a Russian company in a civil action. Does anyone have the exact quote? I've searched the mailing list archives, Planet eBook's coverage, and the Web, but no dice. Thanks in advance, crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From crism at maden.org Tue Aug 7 04:42:01 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe quote: found Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010807043741.00aa0320@mail.maden.org> Thanks to Andrea, who pointed me to the NPR Morning Edition broadcast of 19 July (): Colleen Pouliot, Adobe Senior Vice President & General Counsel: "We did contact ElcomSoft asking them to cease and desist what they were doing. In addition, honestly, [laughs] we didn't think the likelihood was terribly high of getting any money out of a Russian company, so we think this course of action is appropriate." -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From david.haworth at altavista.net Tue Aug 7 04:46:24 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Help: Adobe saying suing Elcom useless? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010807035938.00a9b560@mail.maden.org>; from crism@maden.org on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 04:03:35AM -0700 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010807035938.00a9b560@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <20010807134624.B3639@3soft.de> On Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 04:03:35AM -0700, Christopher R. Maden wrote: > I'm writing up a press release and I'm trying to find a quote. At one > point, I'm pretty sure, someone from Adobe (the corporate counsel?) said > that they pursued criminal action because they were pretty sure they > wouldn't be able to get money from a Russian company in a civil > action. Does anyone have the exact quote? I've searched the mailing list > archives, Planet eBook's coverage, and the Web, but no dice. I think this is what you're looking for: http://zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/2001-July/001228.html It's an html attachment so you might have to save it & edit it for it to make sense. Search for "Why was criminal verses civil" Enjoy! Dave -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From crism at maden.org Tue Aug 7 04:51:17 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Help: Adobe saying suing Elcom useless? In-Reply-To: <20010807134624.B3639@3soft.de> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010807035938.00a9b560@mail.maden.org> <5.0.2.1.0.20010807035938.00a9b560@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010807045026.00aadec0@mail.maden.org> At 04:46 7-08-2001, David Haworth wrote: >http://zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/2001-July/001228.html > >It's an html attachment so you might have to save it & edit it >for it to make sense. Search for "Why was criminal verses civil" Thanks. But I like it better that Colleen laughs while she talks about putting a man in jail because there was no money in a civil action, in the NPR interview. -crism From rms at privacyfoundation.org Tue Aug 7 04:54:58 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Help: Adobe saying suing Elcom useless? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010807035938.00a9b560@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <000701c11f37$caa41da0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Here's what I found: Adobe Alerted Government To Russian Software Crack http://www.newsbytes.com/news/01/168098.html Prescott said today that Adobe had all but ruled out the possibility of pursuing a civil action against Elcomsoft and Sklyarov. "Our legal counsel really don't believe we would win a legal battle in the Russian courts," she said. Richard -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net] On Behalf Of Christopher R. Maden Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 7:04 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Help: Adobe saying suing Elcom useless? I'm writing up a press release and I'm trying to find a quote. At one point, I'm pretty sure, someone from Adobe (the corporate counsel?) said that they pursued criminal action because they were pretty sure they wouldn't be able to get money from a Russian company in a civil action. Does anyone have the exact quote? I've searched the mailing list archives, Planet eBook's coverage, and the Web, but no dice. Thanks in advance, crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From declan at well.com Tue Aug 7 04:52:31 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Libertarian Party/SF article In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010806214254.00a89d90@mail.maden.org>; from crism@maden.org on Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 09:44:18PM -0700 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010806214254.00a89d90@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <20010807075231.A18499@cluebot.com> Thanks. Anyone know if the Democratic and Republican parties, or any of their local chapters, have taken similar "Free Dmitry" stances? -Declan On Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 09:44:18PM -0700, Christopher R. Maden wrote: > The following article appeared in the August issue of _Golden Gate > Libertarian_, the newsletter of the Libertarian Party of San Francisco. It > should be appearing on-line at lpsf.org in the next week. > > -crism > > Dmitry Sklyarov and the DMCA > > As you may have read in the news over the last few weeks, a Russian > programmer named Dmitry Sklyarov was arrested in Las Vegas by the FBI > following the DefCon computer security conference. He was charged with > trafficking in a copyright protection circumvention device, which is a > criminal infraction under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998. > > The DMCA, as it is known, is a nasty little bit of legislation. Most > notably, it outlaws the publication of information on how to circumvent > copy-protection schemes; Jon Johanssen, a teenager in Norway, was charged > for figuring out how simple the protection on DVD movies is. Users of the > free Linux operating system could not play DVDs on their own computers > because no authorized company had written a "driver" for them - with > Johanssen's scheme, they could. The Motion Picture Association of America > not only dealt harshly with Johanssen, but sued the hacker magazine _2600_ > for even linking to Johanssen's code from their Web site. Princeton > University professor Edward Felten was also threatened with a lawsuit if he > presented his investigation into a file protection scheme, proposed by the > music industry, at a conference. > > The DMCA does have "fair use" provisions, but they are much narrower than > the copyright law that preceded DMCA's passage. The fair use doctrine was > developed to balance free speech rights against copyrights - e.g., > satirical uses or parodies of copyrighted work, or short excerpts in a > critical review are permitted under fair use. Under the DMCA, a publisher > can take those rights away from a user via technology, and it becomes > illegal to develop a tool to restore those rights to the information's > consumer. > > As a Ph.D. candidate at a Moscow state university, Sklyarov (pronounced > skul-YAHR-off) investigated the security of Adobe Systems' "Acrobat eBook > Reader" software. This software enables publishers to deliver "ebooks" > that are locked to one specific computer - the end-user can not copy the > book to another computer, nor print it or have the text read aloud by the > computer if the publisher has not specifically enabled those features. (In > other words, blind customers may not be able to legally use a product they > purchase.) Adobe's product has not been doing very well; the on-line > customer discussion fora are filled with comments about the inadequacy of > the product (many using a four-letter verb that starts with "s"). > > In the course of his investigations, Sklyarov found that Adobe's security > was very poor, and that it was a simple matter to intercept the unprotected > book when the purchaser entered the enabling password. He developed a > program that exploited this shortcoming. This enables a user who has > legitimately purchased a book to create an unlocked copy, which they can > then print, copy to another computer, or even publish across the Internet > to thousands of other readers. > > Sklyarov's employer, a Russian company called ElcomSoft, specializes in > password-recovery tools. For instance, if you lock an Excel spreadsheet, > but then forget the password (or worse, your accountant who had the > password quits), you can buy a tool from ElcomSoft to recover the > data. The FBI is a significant customer of these tools, which have obvious > law enforcement applications. ElcomSoft dubbed Sklyarov's tool the > "Advanced eBook Processor", or "AEBPR", and put it up for sale, using a > US-based credit card processing Web site. > > On the June 25, Adobe filed a cease-and-desist notice with ElcomSoft, > giving them five days to pull the program from sale. On June 26, Adobe > filed a criminal complaint with the US Attorney against Dmitry Sklyarov, as > the author of the program. Adobe knew that Sklyarov would be coming to the > United States to speak at DefCon, and advised the FBI of this fact. He was > arrested in due course on July 16. > > This outraged the electronic community, for a variety of reasons. The > Electronic Frontier Foundation, located here in San Francisco, got > involved, and activists organized a boycott of Adobe products and > demonstrations against Sklyarov's arrest around the world. On Monday, July > 23, demonstrators rallied in Boston, St. Paul, Seattle, Salt Lake City, > Moscow, New York, and most significantly, outside Adobe's headquarters in > San Jos? while the EFF met with Adobe's leadership inside. The end result > of the pressure from the demonstrators, the boycott, and press coverage, > together with the EFF's negotiations, was that Adobe dropped the criminal > complaint and called for Sklyarov's release in a joint press release with > the EFF. > > Unfortunately, this is a criminal case, and it remains up to the Department > of Justice to actually free Sklyarov. Another protest was held on Monday, > July 30, at the San Francisco at the Federal Building as well as in several > other cities around the nation. A protest at the US Embassy in London got > significant media attention on Friday, August 3. As I write this, we are > preparing for a rally at Sklyarov's bail hearing in San Jose for Monday, > August 6. > > There are several important reasons to set him free: > > 1) He is charged with trafficking in forbidden technology. He did not sell > the program; his employer did. Although three ElcomSoft employees were at > the conference, including the president, it was Sklyarov who was > arrested. It seems obvious that an example is being made of him. > > 2) The DMCA specifically allows for narrow fair use exemptions from the > civil and criminal violations it defines. AEBPR will only unlock a book > legitimately purchased by the user; it can not be used to steal others' > books. It is thus probable that the program does not even violate the law. > > 3) The DMCA is a very bad law. It has a demonstrably chilling effect on > speech; one colleague, while a co-worker of mine at an ebook company, did > the same research as Sklyarov. He did not publish his work, though, and is > now much more careful about what he publishes. Foreign scientists are > beginning a boycott of US conferences for fear of prosecution and also in > solidarity with Sklyarov and Johanssen. It also punishes research, rather > than copyright violation; since AEBPR only unlocks a user's legitimately > purchased copy, it is the user who must make the decision to pirate the > unlocked copy. AEBPR is a tool with legitimate and illegal uses, like a > lockpick, a crowbar, a car, and a gun. Outlawing the tool does not help. > > However, there are other DMCA test cases, civil ones, working through the > court system, and it is not important to keep Sklyarov as a hostage for a > test case. Let him go. > > This is an important Libertarian issue as well, for a few reasons. > > 1) The rights violations mentioned above - Sklyarov's right to do research, > publish his findings, and create tools with legitimate uses, and the > public's right to fair use of information they purchase. > > 2) It is an excellent example of the dangers of big government. Adobe, > faced with an inferior product and public criticism of their security, used > the government to bully its critics by proxy, having one of them > arrested. The use of criminal charges as a substitute for competition in > the marketplace is unacceptable. A small government is not a useful tool > for a corporation, and would thus avoid similar abuses. > > 3) The community response, the boycott, and Adobe's subsequent relenting > and call for Sklyarov's release are a case study in how the free market can > be used as a tool to effect social change without regulation. > > Interested Libertarians are encouraged to join the protests and voice our > support for free speech and our opposition to abusive laws and their > enforcement. Please see freesklyarov.org for up-to-date information, or > contact the author of this article directly at crism@maden.org or 504-8677. > > The EFF's Web site is eff.org, and it includes information about Sklyarov, > Johanssen, Felten, and the DMCA. > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From freeds at wyrdwright.com Tue Aug 7 06:04:47 2001 From: freeds at wyrdwright.com (Barrington King) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New Pamphlet Message-ID: Hello, All: Pardon the cross-post. What with the upcoming Usenix conference here in D.C. and Dmitry still not being released from the U.S., we at Wyrdwright put together a pamphlet for general use at these events. It's a backgrounder on Dmitry, the case, and the DMCA. It's available at: http://www.wyrdwright.com/sklyarov/dropchargesv1.pdf The pamphlet is two-sides of a legal piece of paper. Fold it in at the middle of page 2 and out on the side panels so that the leftmost panel of page 2 is the back and the rightmost panel of page 2 is the front. There is space on the back to put in your event information or your fundraising information. Feel free to use it for any free Sklyarov or Anti-DMCA event. I've run it by the EFF and I think there aren't any rakes in the grass left in it. Ze Best, BK ------- Anti-flame clause: Yes, I know it was made with Adobe Acrobat Distiller. I've tried three other PDF-generating utilities (MacOSX Print Preview, ps2pdf, and OmniPDF) and none of them have produced any and/or acceptable output. If you have a beef with this, go to http://www.wyrdwright.com/sklyarov/dropchargesv1.ps to download the postscript file and figure out how to get it into an alternate file under 500K. If you can, get it to me and I'll post it up. From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Aug 7 07:36:00 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Headline juxtaposition In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010807014210.00a56940@mail.maden.org>; from crism@maden.org on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 01:44:30AM -0700 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010807014210.00a56940@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <20010807073600.V11634@zork.net> Christopher R. Maden writes: > Reading the NandO Times (), I found it > interesting that Dmitry's bail release was right next to "Gunmaker not > liable for use of weapons in 1993 shootings, California court rules". The > analogy between the liability of a gun manufacturer for illegal uses, and > the liability of AEBPR's author for potential illegal uses, seems obvious. I saw mention of this juxtaposition on dvd-discuss. The only trouble is that there was explicit legislation to create liability for manufacturers of circumvention technology. There's no explicit legislation (in California) to create liability for manufacturers of guns. This is the exact reason why the nice precedent in _Universal v. Sony_ may not help DMCA defendants. The Court there held that _existing law_ provided no liability for manufacturers of VCRs, so movie studios' attempts to make them illegal under various strange contributory _____ theories failed. But apparently the Court also suggested in dicta that Congress _could_ outlaw VCRs, if it wanted to, and there wouldn't necessarily be anything wrong with legislation that did that. This sort of thing is why you hear the copyright industries being really strong on "deferring to the will of Congress". That way when you say "a court held similar behavior legal in 1984!" or whatever, they can say "yes, it wasn't illegal then, but it is now". -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe I'm looking for work: http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/resume.html From badnewsbears at prodigy.net Tue Aug 7 08:05:26 2001 From: badnewsbears at prodigy.net (Yogi) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker References: <3B6EF0EC.6090403@kalifornia.com> <20010806190255.12475c4e.nbhs2@i-2000.com> Message-ID: <008b01c11f52$65b62620$73f2fea9@n6y3p0> I have to agree with Michael Scottaline. Much better to *educate* than to alienate. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Scottaline" To: "Austin Hook" Cc: Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Hacker > On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:48:45 -0700 (MST) > Austin Hook insightfully noted: > > > AH> So I think newspapers who use headlines "Hacker... Dmitry ..." > AH> should > AH> be threatened for suit for defamation, with sufficient remedy being to > AH> publish either a retraction, or else a detailed explanation of how > AH> "hacker" need not be interpreted as criminal. This should not be > AH> necessary for publications whose targeted readership already knows > AH> this, > AH> but for publications that are deliberately using the word "hacker", > AH> knowing that their readership is ignorant of the fair meaning of > AH> "hacker" > AH> then, if they are not doing it to defame, they must provide sufficient > AH> and > AH> constant clarification to their readership what they mean by hacker, > AH> sufficient that at least a majority of their readership knows that > AH> they > AH> are not implying that hacker=criminal, and why a hacker is not a > AH> criminal > AH> in general. > ======================================================== > Hmm......, now it should be our turn to censor and violate a > constitutional right? If calling Dmitry a hacker is not blatant libel > then I don't think the press can be stopped (nor should they) for using > the term. If calling Dmitry a "hacker" is clearly an untruth and done > with "malicious intent" then perhaps you have a case. > Mike > > -- > "I decry the current tendency to seek patents on algorithms. There are > better ways to earn a living than to prevent other people from making > use of one's contributions to computer science." > -- Donald E. Knuth, TAoCP vol 3 > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From rms at privacyfoundation.org Tue Aug 7 08:43:55 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe PDF files can be used as virus carriers Message-ID: <004301c11f51$a3ce41a0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Hello, This is an interesting development. Zulu, a virus writer from South America, appears to have discovered that Adobe PDF files can be used to carry computer viruses. The attached description gives the details. His little trick uses a PDF file to bypass the new security feature of Outlook which automatically deletes dangerous file attachments. With this security feature, all VBScript attachments are deleted because they might be computer viruses. However with Zulu's trick, a malicious VBScript file can instead be hidden inside a PDF file which Outlook considers safe. I don't believe that the anti security research and reverse engineering provisions of the DCMA apply here, but given Adobe's recent action against Dmitry Sklyarov, I recommend a bit of caution by anyone looking into this potential security problem in Adobe Acrobat Reader. A conversation with a lawyer might be prudent. Another interesting question is if Adobe formatted eBooks can also act as computer virus carriers. Richard M. Smith CTO, Privacy Foundation http://www.privacyfoundation.org ==================================================================== http://www.coderz.net/zulu/outlook.pdfworm.txt Virus Name: OUTLOOK.PDFWorm Author: Zulu Origin: Argentina VBScript worm. It uses OUTLOOK to send itself in a PDF (portable document format) file (first using this file type). When opened using Acrobat it will show an image with a minor game. Showing the solution to this game involves doing a double click to a file annotation, which after a warning will run a VBS, VBE or WSF file (depending of the worm version). The VBScript file will create and show a JPG file with the solution to the game and it will try to find the PDF file to spread it. This is necessary because when the link is used, Acrobat will create the VBS, VBE or WSF file in Windows' temporary directory and it will run this file, so this VBScript file doesn't know the path of the PDF file to spread. Then it will start the spreading code using a way of using OUTLOOK not seen before in any worm (spreading details can be found in the features section of this file). The password for changing the security options of the PDF file is "OUTLOOK.PDFWorm". This worm is designed to be a proof of concept, it has bad spreading capabilities, only the necessary to be called a worm. Also, because file annotations are only available in the full version of Acrobat, this worm will not run in Acrobat Reader. Features: - Uses the PDF extension, not seen before in any virus/worm. - OUTLOOK spreading using new code, not the classic Melissa's code and it's variations like the one from Freelink. This new method will get addresses from the recipients of all emails in any OUTLOOK folder and from all address book entries (but taking the first three addresses of each contact, not just the first like most OUTLOOK worms). This new method is based in the possibility of reaching contacts from OUTLOOK folders instead of using the objects designed to read address books. So the code will look inside all OUTLOOK folders, and if the items inside them are emails or contacts, it will get those addresses. Subject, body and attachment name will be selected from some random choices. Also, it will limit the amount of emails to 100. It will be run only once in each computer since it uses the registry to check if it was already run. - Good social engineering. I even think that this PDF file would be manually sent by many of those users that are never tired of sending stupid jokes. :) - To find the PDF file, if Word is installed it will use it to do the search, if Word is not installed, it will search for the file using VBScript code looking in many common paths and all subdirectories of those paths. Both methods will look for PDF files with their size similar to the original worm copy. - Uses script encoding (in version 1.1 and 1.2). - The VBScript file shows a JPG file when run, so it will show what the user expects. Background information: I was starting another project, much bigger and with good spreading capabilities. But that was very delayed because of time problems, so I decided to try with PDF files first and then continue with the other worm when I have time. I saw four possibilities: - Using JavaScript with "mailMsg" method. It would only work in the full version of Acrobat. By using the "mailMsg" method (which uses MAPI) I could send an email message when the document is opened (page open action). But the problem was that I was not able of getting email addresses to send the message to. - Using the Acrobat menu. It would only work in the full version of Acrobat. I could use the "Send Mail..." menu option, calling it when the document is opened (page open action). That would open a window from the default email client with the attachment already added. Here the problem was how to send the necessary keys to send the message that was already opened in that window. - Using open file action. It would work in Acrobat and in Acrobat Reader. It displays a warning. By creating an open file action when the document is opened I could run any file with any code inside it. But the problem was that I had no file to run. This method could work for a trojan that runs "FORMAT.COM", but not for a worm. - Using a file annotation. It would only work in the full version of Acrobat. It displays a warning. Creating a file annotation with my file embedded inside the PDF file I could run my code. Acrobat would create the embedded file in the temporary directory and it would run the file from there. This has two problems. One was knowing the path of the PDF file, this was solved by searching the file in the hard disk since looking in the task name would only give the file name, not the full path. The other problem is that it's not possible to open a file annotation automatically when the PDF file is opened since there is no action to do that and it seems that there is no way of getting the file using JavaScript code, so it was necessary that the user manually double clicked the file annotation. This last problem was not solved. From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Aug 7 09:03:34 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ANNOUNCEMENT: 8/30 March To Free Dmitry in Black Rock City, NV Message-ID: <87hevjamcp.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> A coalition group from the Reno and San Francisco Bay Area Free Dmitry organizations will be marching in Black Rock City, Nevada on August 30th at 6PM to bring attention to the arrest and prosecution of Dmitry Sklyarov. The group will congregate in the City Center and march along the Esplanade. The march will conclude at SMRL headquarters where music and refreshments will be provided. Contact: Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.san-francisco.ca.us), 415-377-8614 ~Klepht P.S. I guarantee that this march will feature more naked people than the rest of the 8/30 events combined. -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From kmself at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 7 09:26:42 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe quote: found In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010807043741.00aa0320@mail.maden.org>; from crism@maden.org on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 04:42:01AM -0700 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010807043741.00aa0320@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <20010807092642.B22013@navel.introspect> on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 04:42:01AM -0700, Christopher R. Maden (crism@maden.org) wrote: > Thanks to Andrea, who pointed me to the NPR Morning Edition broadcast of 19 > July (): > > Colleen Pouliot, Adobe Senior Vice President & General Counsel: > > "We did contact ElcomSoft asking them to cease and desist what they were > doing. In addition, honestly, [laughs] we didn't think the likelihood was > terribly high of getting any money out of a Russian company, so we think > this course of action is appropriate." Awesome. Anyone got a RA to WAV or other audio file format converter? This would make a nice little soundbite for general distribution: Jailing programmers. Adobe thinks it's a laughing matter. Cheers. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010807/75c93072/attachment.pgp From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Aug 7 09:34:59 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Black Rock City Free Dmitry URL Message-ID: <87d767akwc.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> More information on the Black Rock City event is available here: http://www.smrl.org/free_dmitry_brc.html Many thanks to SMRL for providing Web space for this site. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca Tue Aug 7 09:43:09 2001 From: marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca (Austin Hook) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe PDF files can be used as virus carriers In-Reply-To: <004301c11f51$a3ce41a0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Aug 2001, Richard M. Smith wrote: > This is an interesting development. Zulu, a virus writer from South > America, appears to have discovered that Adobe PDF files can be used to > carry computer viruses. When someone makes an incomplete copy protection breaker, that requires the text of the DMCA or a copy of Adobe reader as a key to complete breaking process, then the DMCA text or whatever other piece of text or code will become the final circumvention device. From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Aug 7 09:38:05 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe quote: found In-Reply-To: <20010807092642.B22013@navel.introspect>; from kmself@ix.netcom.com on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 09:26:42AM -0700 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010807043741.00aa0320@mail.maden.org> <20010807092642.B22013@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <20010807093805.A22369@zork.net> Karsten M. Self writes: > on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 04:42:01AM -0700, Christopher R. Maden (crism@maden.org) wrote: > > Thanks to Andrea, who pointed me to the NPR Morning Edition broadcast of 19 > > July (): > > > > Colleen Pouliot, Adobe Senior Vice President & General Counsel: > > > > "We did contact ElcomSoft asking them to cease and desist what they were > > doing. In addition, honestly, [laughs] we didn't think the likelihood was > > terribly high of getting any money out of a Russian company, so we think > > this course of action is appropriate." > > Awesome. > > Anyone got a RA to WAV or other audio file format converter? Ahem. http://www.realnetworks.com/company/pressroom/streambox_litigation.html http://www.google.com/search?q=streambox+vcr -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe I'm looking for work: http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/resume.html From dmarti at zgp.org Tue Aug 7 10:35:32 2001 From: dmarti at zgp.org (don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Computer Book Publisher Says "Free Dmitry" Message-ID: <20010807103532.A20297@zgp.org> Just got this from Bill Pollock and Amanda Staab at No Starch Press. ********************* FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE ********************* SAN FRANCISCO, CA - No Starch Press, Inc.'s publisher William Pollock calls for publishers to cast aside proprietary electronic book formats. The letter follows: I am the publisher and owner of No Starch Press, Inc., a book publishing company. No Starch Press has published several best-selling books, including STEAL THIS COMPUTER BOOK, THE BOOK OF JAVASCRIPT, and the ASTRONOMER'S COMPUTER COMPANION. As a publisher, I believe that readers have certain important fair-use rights that pertain to both electronic and printed books that they should be able to exercise without asking our permission. We control certain rights to our books that are protected by law, and we encourage our customers' control of certain rights as readers. Readers of electronic books should be able to read their electronic books just as they read their printed books - wherever and whenever they please - and they should be able to share their electronic books with others. They should also have the right to read their electronic books with a Braille terminal or text-to-speech device, and to read them on more than one computer. The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) was designed to protect our rights as publishers in the electronic arena, but it fails to preserve copyright law's historic ability to balance the interests of publishers with those of readers. The FBI's arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov, a Russian citizen who helped to create the Advanced eBook Processor for his company, Elcomsoft, was an overblown and misguided test of the DMCA. While I am certainly opposed to the illegal copying and sale of books, I think the government should spend more time prosecuting the real offenders: The people and companies who make and sell illegal copies of books, not the software tool developers. We do not publish our books in proprietary eBook formats because these formats limit the reader's experience and put unnecessary restraints on information. We have, however, released several of our titles under various copyleft-type licenses, and will continue to do so. The eBook format is flawed because it denies some basic rights to readers that they automatically have when they buy a printed book. As an industry we have a problem to solve regarding the electronic delivery of books, and I am eager to find a solution that works for everyone involved, including publishers, authors, and readers. By punishing Dmitry, our government is making it clear that they are not interested in readers' rights. I encourage publishers not to use proprietary electronic book formats. We have a responsibility as publishers to continue to maintain and defend the rights of readers to read and enjoy their books whenever and wherever they choose, and that responsibility must not be taken lightly. William Pollock, Publisher No Starch Press, Inc. ABOUT NO STARCH PRESS Founded in San Francisco in 1994, No Starch Press (www.nostarch.com) publishes computer books that make a difference on topics like Open Source, Web development, robotics, and computer security. Media Contact: Amanda Staab, 415/863-9900, amanda@nostarch.com, 555 De Haro Street, Suite 250, San Francisco, CA 94107 ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Don Marti What do we want? Free Dmitry! When do we want it? Now! http://zgp.org/~dmarti Free Dmitry: http://eff.org/ dmarti@zgp.org Free the web, burn all GIFs: http://burnallgifs.org/ From kfoss at planetpdf.com Tue Aug 7 11:10:56 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Disappearing eBooks - but not inmates? In-Reply-To: <008b01c11f52$65b62620$73f2fea9@n6y3p0> References: <3B6EF0EC.6090403@kalifornia.com> <20010806190255.12475c4e.nbhs2@i-2000.com> <008b01c11f52$65b62620$73f2fea9@n6y3p0> Message-ID: In light of the press release item "RosettaBooks Launches First 'Timed' eBook" we just posted on our Planet eBook site, a possible punishment of five years in prison seems a bit harsh in light of the rapid changes in technologies these days. Someone like Sklyarov could be still idling away in the slammer while the copyright protection scheme he was able to outwit may have long since ceased to exist. Read about the tech demo that allows an eBook to be set to self-destruct after a specified period of time at: http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=201 rgds ~ Kurt ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Aug 7 11:16:37 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Disappearing eBooks - but not inmates? In-Reply-To: ; from kfoss@planetpdf.com on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 01:10:56PM -0500 References: <3B6EF0EC.6090403@kalifornia.com> <008b01c11f52$65b62620$73f2fea9@n6y3p0> Message-ID: <20010807111637.D22369@zork.net> Kurt Foss writes: > Read about the tech demo that allows an eBook to be set to > self-destruct after a specified period of time at: > > http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=201 I hesitated before untying the bow that bound this book together. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From jono at microshaft.org Tue Aug 7 11:21:03 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Disappearing eBooks - but not inmates? In-Reply-To: ; from kfoss@planetpdf.com on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 01:10:56PM -0500 References: <3B6EF0EC.6090403@kalifornia.com> <008b01c11f52$65b62620$73f2fea9@n6y3p0> Message-ID: <20010807112103.A479@networkcommand.com> Be sure to check the Reciprocal "How it works" section: http://www.reciprocal.com/wwd_howitworks.asp You need a permit to read that book. And don't miss section 6 "An audit record is sent back to Reciprocal... generates tracking reports..." Ever feel like you're being watched...? On 07-Aug-2001, Kurt Foss wrote: > In light of the press release item "RosettaBooks Launches First > 'Timed' eBook" we just posted on our Planet eBook site, a possible > punishment of five years in prison seems a bit harsh in light of the > rapid changes in technologies these days. Someone like Sklyarov could > be still idling away in the slammer while the copyright protection > scheme he was able to outwit may have long since ceased to exist. > > Read about the tech demo that allows an eBook to be set to > self-destruct after a specified period of time at: > > http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=201 > > rgds ~ Kurt > > ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ > Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums > mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com > http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ > BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jim at media.mit.edu Tue Aug 7 11:28:25 2001 From: jim at media.mit.edu (Jim Youll) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry photos needed by international press Message-ID: <200108071828.OAA30729@dns2.newmediagroup.com> We are getting a large number of requests from the international press for photos of Dmitry -- new photos, fresh ones, taken after those that are on the EFF website... please have photographers get in touch with me ASAP if they have images that can be licensed, or that they would otherwise care to make freely available to the press. thanks -- http://www.media.mit.edu/~jim research assistant . software agents group . e-markets sig mit media lab . cambridge, ma Free Dmitry Sklyarov ... http://freesklyarov.org/ From andrea at gravitt.org Tue Aug 7 11:36:51 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Disappearing eBooks - but not inmates? Message-ID: <009b01c11f6f$ef6fb170$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> Does anyone else find it ironic that one of the titles that RosettaBooks trumpets in the press release is 1984? Time-limited or use-limited books are the librarian's nightmare. Andrea From ben at kalifornia.com Tue Aug 7 11:37:15 2001 From: ben at kalifornia.com (Ben Ford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [Fwd: Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your message] Message-ID: <3B70355B.80207@kalifornia.com> Is this a crock or what? -b -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your message Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:40:30 -0400 From: To: August 7, 2001 Mr. Ben Ford 16350 Harbor Blvd. #207 Santa Ana, California 92704 Dear Mr. Ford: Thank you for trying to contact me. I regret to inform you that due to technical difficulties, I am unable to read your e-mail. Messages that are not sent directly through my website can not be retrieved by my office. If you wish to receive a response to your concerns, please e- mail me at http://feinstein.senate.gov/email.html. Again, please accept my apologies for this inconvenience. I value your opinion and I look forward to your next e-mail. Sincerely yours, Dianne Feinstein United States Senator http://feinstein.senate.gov -- Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are going to burn in Hell forever. From pmasloch at earthlink.net Tue Aug 7 11:49:58 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [Fwd: Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your message] References: <3B70355B.80207@kalifornia.com> Message-ID: <3B703856.3000309@earthlink.net> No, it is ignorance. Ben Ford wrote: > Is this a crock or what? > > -b > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your message > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:40:30 -0400 > From: > To: > > > > > August 7, 2001 > > > Mr. Ben Ford > 16350 Harbor Blvd. #207 > Santa Ana, California 92704 > > Dear Mr. Ford: > > Thank you for trying to contact me. > > I regret to inform you that due to technical difficulties, I am > unable to read your e-mail. Messages that are not sent directly > through my website can not be retrieved by my office. > > If you wish to receive a response to your concerns, please e- > mail me at http://feinstein.senate.gov/email.html. > > Again, please accept my apologies for this inconvenience. I > value your opinion and I look forward to your next e-mail. > > > > Sincerely yours, > > Dianne Feinstein > United States Senator > > http://feinstein.senate.gov > > -- Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org/ From MLarma at eFuel.com Tue Aug 7 11:54:23 2001 From: MLarma at eFuel.com (Larma, Mark) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [Fwd: Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your message] Message-ID: <1E50F10694062B4D922862B413D01C9E041C@efuelmail.efuel.com> I haven't liked her from the word go -- especially when I saw that she just about gave out all the info the cops had on the Night Stalker (serial killer in LA in the 1980s) while she was mayor of San Francisco. That is indeed a real crime and the fact that she divulged information to make herself look good or whatever and basically snubbing her nose at getting this guy caught just bugs me still. Anyway, to sum it up, she is a loser and since she is on the take from the media giants (RIAA, MPAA, etc.) then I doubt she will be very helpful at all. Mark Larma Systems Engineering Specialist MLarma@eFuel.com 704-971-3368 Voice 704-957-9557 Mobile http://www.eFuel.com -----Original Message----- From: Ben Ford [mailto:ben@kalifornia.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 2:37 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] [Fwd: Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your message] Is this a crock or what? -b -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your message Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:40:30 -0400 From: To: August 7, 2001 Mr. Ben Ford 16350 Harbor Blvd. #207 Santa Ana, California 92704 Dear Mr. Ford: Thank you for trying to contact me. I regret to inform you that due to technical difficulties, I am unable to read your e-mail. Messages that are not sent directly through my website can not be retrieved by my office. If you wish to receive a response to your concerns, please e- mail me at http://feinstein.senate.gov/email.html. Again, please accept my apologies for this inconvenience. I value your opinion and I look forward to your next e-mail. Sincerely yours, Dianne Feinstein United States Senator http://feinstein.senate.gov -- Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are going to burn in Hell forever. _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Tue Aug 7 12:00:40 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Headline juxtaposition In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010807014210.00a56940@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Aug 2001, Christopher R. Maden wrote: > Reading the NandO Times (), I found it > interesting that Dmitry's bail release was right next to "Gunmaker not > liable for use of weapons in 1993 shootings, California court rules". The > analogy between the liability of a gun manufacturer for illegal uses, and > the liability of AEBPR's author for potential illegal uses, seems obvious. Actually, I consider the analogy a bit dubious. Firstly, we have the analogy between crypto products and firearms, which has been a thorn in our side for years. But I've already griped about that. But secondly, you will notice that the firearm manufacturer was sued over the commission of a specific crime. Dmitry is, apparently, liable for a hypothetical pretend crime. -S [Maybe he can be fined in Monopoly money.] From sisgeek at yahoo.com Tue Aug 7 12:02:31 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Headline juxtaposition In-Reply-To: <20010807073600.V11634@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010807190231.96514.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> in my thinking there is a grand canyon between dicta saying you can restrict a vcr (the hon henry hyde -il attempts to justify restrictions on speech by analogizing to hardware restrictions, also) and application of that logic to restricting code writing (speech). colleen pouilot, Adobe's general counsel articulates beautifully the rationale for "strange contributory theories" when saying during an npr interview - frankly we did not think we could get any money out of a russian company. however, in america, restricting one person's speech because effective remedies against another person are unavailable never has been the law and never can be the law! although, the gun ruling raised second amendment issues it did truncate efforts to extend remedies against one class of persons (producers of guns) for the behavior of another class of persons (users of guns)... and this is definitely positive!! (and guns are definitely hardware:) --- Seth David Schoen wrote: > Christopher R. Maden writes: > > > Reading the NandO Times ( http://www.nando.net/ >), I found it > > interesting that Dmitry's bail release was right > next to "Gunmaker not > > liable for use of weapons in 1993 shootings, > California court rules". The > > analogy between the liability of a gun > manufacturer for illegal uses, and > > the liability of AEBPR's author for potential > illegal uses, seems obvious. > > I saw mention of this juxtaposition on dvd-discuss. > > The only trouble is that there was explicit > legislation to create > liability for manufacturers of circumvention > technology. There's no > explicit legislation (in California) to create > liability for > manufacturers of guns. > > This is the exact reason why the nice precedent in > _Universal v. Sony_ > may not help DMCA defendants. The Court there held > that _existing law_ > provided no liability for manufacturers of VCRs, so > movie studios' > attempts to make them illegal under various strange > contributory _____ > theories failed. But apparently the Court also > suggested in dicta > that Congress _could_ outlaw VCRs, if it wanted to, > and there wouldn't > necessarily be anything wrong with legislation that > did that. > > This sort of thing is why you hear the copyright > industries being > really strong on "deferring to the will of > Congress". That way when > you say "a court held similar behavior legal in > 1984!" or whatever, > they can say "yes, it wasn't illegal then, but it is > now". > > -- > Seth David Schoen | Lending, > printing, copying, giving > Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and > text-to-speech are permissions > down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by > the publisher. -- Adobe > I'm looking for work: > http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/resume.html > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From rms at privacyfoundation.org Tue Aug 7 12:22:39 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Real eBook piracy vs. imagined piracy In-Reply-To: <009b01c11f6f$ef6fb170$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> Message-ID: <003701c11f76$55c10680$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Hello, Speaking of RosettaBooks, they are being sued by Random House for publishing eBooks that Random House claims RosettaBooks does not have the rights to. If the courts agree with Random House, the book industry will have its first real case of eBook piracy. On the other hand, if RosettaBooks wins, the rest of book publishing industry is going to be in a real pickle. They will be forced to go back to authors to acquire eBook rights. In addition, the publishers might be violating copyrights on existing eBooks if the publisher didn't first get the proper rights from authors. The lawsuit seems to turn on the simple question: Does the definition of a book encompass eBooks? For some reason, the publishing industry seems to be very quiet about this lawsuit in stark contrast to the AAP's press release cheering on the DOJ for arresting Dmitry. Here's the excerpt from a CNET story about the lawsuit: http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-4976631.html Random House sues e-book company over copyrights By Melanie Austria Farmer and Gwendolyn Mariano Staff Writers, CNET News.com February 28, 2001, 9:35 a.m. PT Publishing giant Random House has filed a copyright infringement lawsuit against RosettaBooks, accusing the e-book company of illegally selling electronic versions of several Random House titles. The publisher, which filed suit Tuesday in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York, said RosettaBooks violated its rights by selling some of its titles as e-books, including William Styron's "Confessions of Nat Turner" and Kurt Vonnegut's "Slaughterhouse Five." Random House said it intends to publish e-book editions of these works soon. "We seldom institute legal action," said Random House spokesman Stuart Applebaum. "This is not something we do regularly or lightly, but our publishing rights have been violated. RosettaBooks is offering e-book versions that they have no right to sell. We, not anyone else, hold the e-books right to these titles in question." Applebaum added that Random House owns the exclusive rights to publish backlist books, or older titles, in print, audio and evolving, technology-centered formats From rabbi at quickie.net Tue Aug 7 12:56:54 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Computer Book Publisher Says "Free Dmitry" (fwd) Message-ID: [No Starch is publishing my upcoming book on email security. Just got this announcement. --Len.] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:11:28 -0700 From: Amanda Staab To: No Starch News Subject: Computer Book Publisher Says "Free Dmitry" ********************* FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE ********************* SAN FRANCISCO, CA - No Starch Press, Inc.'s publisher William Pollock calls for publishers to cast aside proprietary electronic book formats. The lette= r follows: I am the publisher and owner of No Starch Press, Inc., a book publishing company. No Starch Press has published several best-selling books, includin= g STEAL THIS COMPUTER BOOK, THE BOOK OF JAVASCRIPT, and the ASTRONOMER'S COMPUTER COMPANION. As a publisher, I believe that readers have certain important fair-use rights that pertain to both electronic and printed books that they should b= e able to exercise without asking our permission. We control certain rights t= o our books that are protected by law, and we encourage our customers' contro= l of certain rights as readers. Readers of electronic books should be able to read their electronic books just as they read their printed books - wherever and whenever they please - and they should be able to share their electronic books with others. They should also have the right to read their electronic books with a Braille terminal or text-to-speech device, and to read them on more than one computer. The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) was designed to protect our rights as publishers in the electronic arena, but it fails to preserve copyright law's historic ability to balance the interests of publishers wit= h those of readers. The FBI's arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov, a Russian citizen wh= o helped to create the Advanced eBook Processor for his company, Elcomsoft, was an overblown and misguided test of the DMCA. While I am certainly opposed to the illegal copying and sale of books, I think the government should spend more time prosecuting the real offenders: The people and companies who make and sell illegal copies of books, not the software tool developers. We do not publish our books in proprietary eBook formats because these formats limit the reader's experience and put unnecessary restraints on information. We have, however, released several of our titles under various copyleft-type licenses, and will continue to do so. The eBook format is flawed because it denies some basic rights to readers that they automatically have when they buy a printed book. As an industry we have a problem to solve regarding the electronic delivery of books, and I am eager to find a solution that works for everyone involved, including publishers, authors, and readers. By punishing Dmitry, our government is making it clear that they are not interested in readers' rights. I encourage publishers not to use proprietary electronic book formats. We have a responsibility as publishers to continue to maintain and defend the rights of readers to read and enjoy their books whenever and wherever they choose, and that responsibility must not be taken lightly. William Pollock, Publisher No Starch Press, Inc. ABOUT NO STARCH PRESS Founded in San Francisco in 1994, No Starch Press (www.nostarch.com) publishes computer books that make a difference on topics like Open Source, Web development, robotics, and computer security. Media Contact: Amanda Staab, 415/863-9900, amanda@nostarch.com, 555 De Haro Street, Suite 250, San Francisco, CA 94107 _____________ To be removed from this list, simply reply with =93remove=94 in your messag= e. From jono at microshaft.org Tue Aug 7 13:00:10 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Real eBook piracy vs. imagined piracy In-Reply-To: <003701c11f76$55c10680$6501a8c0@tiac.net>; from rms@privacyfoundation.org on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 03:22:39PM -0400 References: <009b01c11f6f$ef6fb170$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> <003701c11f76$55c10680$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20010807130010.F479@networkcommand.com> This is very interesting. It seems their self-destruct feature could be used to destory evidence of their own priacy and is therefore also a circumvention device ;)... Do you think we have a case? On 07-Aug-2001, Richard M. Smith wrote: > Hello, > > Speaking of RosettaBooks, they are being sued by Random House for > publishing eBooks that Random House claims RosettaBooks does not have > the rights to. If the courts agree with Random House, the book industry > will have its first real case of eBook piracy. On the other hand, if > RosettaBooks wins, the rest of book publishing industry is going to be > in a real pickle. They will be forced to go back to authors to acquire > eBook rights. In addition, the publishers might be violating copyrights > on existing eBooks if the publisher didn't first get the proper rights > from authors. > > The lawsuit seems to turn on the simple question: Does the definition of > a book encompass eBooks? For some reason, the publishing industry seems > to be very quiet about this lawsuit in stark contrast to the AAP's press > release cheering on the DOJ for arresting Dmitry. > From rabbi at quickie.net Tue Aug 7 13:22:36 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] CDR: Public Records in USA v. Sklyarov (fwd) Message-ID: And they are still spelling his name wrong. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 22:00:52 -0700 From: John Young Reply-To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com To: cypherpunks@lne.com Subject: CDR: Public Records in USA v. Sklyarov Cryptome has obtained 60 pages of public records filed in USA v. Dmitry Sklyarov: five pages of Court documents and 55 pages of submissions in support of Dmitry's character and achievements. They are offered in compressed TIFF format: Court Documents: Order Setting Conditions of Release and Appearance Bond, August 6, 2001 http://cryptome.org/ds-bond-order.tif (1 page, 87KB) Magistrate Judge Minute Order, August 6, 2001 http://cryptome.org/ds-minute-order.tif (1 page, 83KB) Warrant for Arrest, July 11, 2001 http://cryptome.org/ds-arrest-warrant.tif (1 page, 43KB) USA Motion to Seal the Criminal Complaint and Arrest Warrant, July 11, 2001 http://cryptome.org/ds-motion-to-seal.tif (1 page, 42KB) Sealing Order by Magistrate Patricia Trumbull, July 11, 2001 http://cryptome.org/ds-order-to-seal.tif (1 page, 28KB) These five are available in a Zipped file: http://cryptome.org/sklyarov-orders.zip (5 pages, 276KB) The Criminal Complaint was also in the public records but heretofore published: http://cryptome.org/usa-v-sklyarov.htm Submissions in Support of Dmitry: English and Russian documents -- consulate letters, certificates of education and achievement, letters of colleagues, friends and Elcomsoft clients -- in a Zipped file of compressed TIFF images: http://cryptome.org/sklyarov-vouch.zip (55 pages, 2.82MB) From jeme at brelin.net Tue Aug 7 13:33:34 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov=Napster according to Senator Boxer In-Reply-To: <20010801201725.15162.qmail@web13106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A quick note: On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Paul Callahan wrote: > Here's the response to a letter I sent "regrading" Sklyarov and DMCA: > > Dear Mr. Callahan: > > Thank you for your recent communication > regrading Napster. As you may already know, both > the United States District Court and a United > States Court of Appeals have ruled that Napster > encourages and assists copyright infringement of > copyrighted music. This decision restates the > important fact that in our country we value > property rights, whether its music that a writer > has created or the car that you drive. Neither > can legally be taken from you without > compensation. First and foremost: What "decision" is the Senator talking about? As far as I know, there is just an injunction against Napster PENDING TRIAL. No trial has actually taken place. The arguments for or against Napster HAVE NOT been judged on merits and NO DECISION is standing. The Court was asked to issue an injunction against Napster on behalf of the RIAA. The Court granted the injunction. Napster APPEALED THE INJUNCTION and the Court of Appeals AFFIRMED THE INJUNCTION based on the notion that IF NAPSTER IS INFRINGING, then the injunction would prevent further infringement. NO decision has been made by the court based on arguments of law. > The technology Napster employs holds great > promise. It is my hope that such peer to peer > technology will be available legitimately and that > the idea that Napster has invented will become > available to consumers in a legal manner very soon. So, participating on the internet makes you a "consumer", huh? And how do you make sharing legitmate in a world where increasingly the only "legitimate" sphere of human interaction is the market? The market cannot abide non-commercial entities or actions. Giving and sharing are contrary to the market. And on what level did Napster "invent" peer-to-peer information exchange? Every machine on the network is a peer by nature. I can run a client and a server on the same host... there are not two "classes" of internet connection. It just so happens that non-permanent connections are very inconvenient for running services. It is only the "Terms of Service" of _SOME_ ISPs that prevent everyone from participating on the network as equals. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From sisgeek at yahoo.com Tue Aug 7 13:29:52 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP response quoted in a previous thread In-Reply-To: <3B6FA21C.1000006@eurorights.org> Message-ID: <20010807202952.28137.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com> lars, quite the opposite seems to be true? america policy makers seem to be increasingly assigning "national security" with "corporate profitability", while, of course denying same!! my $nationalsecurity = $corporateprofitability; under this assignment it is not hard to justify locking up dmitry (or anyone else) as impairing the assignment. history teaches us much evil results when a nation's policy makers are permitted, by their people, to make these type of assignments without strict oversight and accountability. eval { $nationalsecurity = $corporateprofitability; }; warn $@ if $@; --- Lars Gaarden wrote: > Ethan Straffin wrote: > > > Very much so -- which is why I agree only > partially with your statement > > that DMCA proponents understand the technological > issues. They are > > perceptive enough to recognize that > encryption-based DRM is inherently > > circumventable, but they are *not* perceptive > enough to recognize that the > > Internet makes it well-nigh impossible to > prosecute anyone who doesn't > > want to be prosecuted. Individuals who are > technologically savvy enough > > to compromise encryption systems are, by and > large, also technologically > > savvy enough to share what they've learned > anonymously. So why not try to > > punish them anyway? Because the only way you > stand a chance of doing so, > > once the lessons learned from the 2600 and > Sklyarov cases become common > > knowledge, is to inaugurate a new era in which > Echelon-style surveillance > > is everywhere, the "safe harbor" and "common > carrier" defenses for ISPs > > are nonexistent, and Internet privacy is a thing > of the past. Even more > > than the prosecutions themselves, and the chilling > effect on free speech, > > *this* is what scares me about the DMCA: it's an > authoritarian time bomb > > wrapped in pretty free-market packaging. > > > The interesting thing to note here is that Echelon > is under quite heavy > fire. The spooks have wanted for years to deploy a > complete Internet > surveilance system, but have been stopped by the > privacy concerns that > have been raised. > > However, when the copyright goons want to do the > exact same thing.... > > Seems like the US has a government that thinks that > national security is > less important than protecting a few large > publishers. > > -- > "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, > committed citizens can > change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that > ever has." > - Margaret Mead. > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From byoungvt at yahoo.com Tue Aug 7 13:30:57 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dangers of eTextbooks Message-ID: <20010807203057.81824.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> Now here is one that concerns all students: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/010801/0293.html http://www.metatext.com/students/index.htm eTextbooks that expire after one semester. The publishers must love these -No used book market-prices will skyrocket -You can't lend eTextbook to a friend -You can't give it to someone to use next semester -No material cost -No school bookstore (middleman) which also happen to employ lots of students, many of which (like SJSU) are owned by the students. -Professors can't copy pages to hand out for instructional purposes Maybe we should flyer Stanford, Berkley, SJSU during book buying season???? From byoungvt at yahoo.com Tue Aug 7 13:38:46 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] eTextbook II Message-ID: <20010807203846.59022.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> Here is the specific link where they say the books expire after a semester: http://www.metatext.com/students/getting_started.htm also read profitable below: http://www.metatext.com/publishers/index.htm What a smack in the face to the right of First Sale!!!! From sklyarov at openwire.com Tue Aug 7 13:56:01 2001 From: sklyarov at openwire.com (Jay Allen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [Fwd: Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your message] In-Reply-To: <3B70355B.80207@kalifornia.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010807134521.00ae47d0@mail.jlizard.com> What do you expect from a Senator who has nary a word about the internet on her website. I wrote about this yesterday on my site... After reading the proposed MOCA legislation by Boucher and Cannon, I was inspired to check out their websites. I was duly impressed with the attention paid to internet issues. So I then looked at my own reps' websites to see what they had. Feinstein, Boxer and Pelosi have next to nothing about internet issues. You'd think that representing California and San Francisco (Pelosi) might be a good enough reason to at least act like you care or have a position... We as a community REALLY need to make these representatives hear us. Our collective voice MUST be louder than the sound of cash being doled out by the entertainment cartel. If they don't hear us, we need to vote them out of office at the next possible opportunity... I see this as a make-or-break time for many politicians representing high-tech constituencies... Jay Allen http://www.openwire.com/web/ At 11:37 AM 8/7/2001 -0700, Ben Ford wrote: >Is this a crock or what? > >-b > >-------- Original Message -------- >Subject: Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your message >Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:40:30 -0400 >From: >To: > > > > > August 7, 2001 > > >Mr. Ben Ford >16350 Harbor Blvd. #207 >Santa Ana, California 92704 > >Dear Mr. Ford: > > Thank you for trying to contact me. > > I regret to inform you that due to technical difficulties, I am >unable to read your e-mail. Messages that are not sent directly >through my website can not be retrieved by my office. > > If you wish to receive a response to your concerns, please e- >mail me at http://feinstein.senate.gov/email.html. > > Again, please accept my apologies for this inconvenience. I >value your opinion and I look forward to your next e-mail. > > > > Sincerely yours, > > Dianne Feinstein > United States Senator > >http://feinstein.senate.gov > > >-- >Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are >going to burn in Hell forever. From byoungvt at yahoo.com Tue Aug 7 13:41:24 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] eTextbooks Message-ID: <20010807204124.43288.qmail@web14504.mail.yahoo.com> is one that concerns all students: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/010801/0293.html http://www.metatext.com/students/index.htm eTextbooks that expire after one semester. The publishers must love these -No used book market-prices will skyrocket -You can't lend eTextbook to a friend -You can't give it to someone to use next semester -No material cost -No school bookstore (middleman) which also happen to employ lots of students, many of which (like SJSU) are owned by the students. -Professors can't copy pages to hand out for instructional purposes Maybe we should flyer Stanford, Berkley, SJSU during book buying season???? From byoungvt at yahoo.com Tue Aug 7 13:42:05 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (no subject) Message-ID: <20010807204205.10153.qmail@web14509.mail.yahoo.com> Here is the specific link where they say the books expire after a semester: http://www.metatext.com/students/getting_started.htm also read profitable below: http://www.metatext.com/publishers/index.htm What a smack in the face to the right of First Sale!!!! From mickeym at mindspring.com Tue Aug 7 13:42:07 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (mickey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dangers of eTextbooks References: <20010807203057.81824.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B70529E.D3316ADA@mindspring.com> "Additionally, if the publisher grants permission, users can lend and give their eBook selections between Acrobat eBook Readers, as well as print the content. " brad young wrote: > Now here is one that concerns all students: > > http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/010801/0293.html > http://www.metatext.com/students/index.htm > > eTextbooks that expire after one semester. The > publishers must love these > > -No used book market-prices will skyrocket > -You can't lend eTextbook to a friend > -You can't give it to someone to use next semester > -No material cost > -No school bookstore (middleman) which also happen to > employ lots of students, many of which (like SJSU) are > owned by the students. > -Professors can't copy pages to hand out for > instructional purposes > > Maybe we should flyer Stanford, Berkley, SJSU during > book buying season???? > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From rjhill at directvinternet.com Tue Aug 7 13:47:37 2001 From: rjhill at directvinternet.com (Rebecca J. Hill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] technically inaccurate news reports Message-ID: This is nit-picking, I know. The first two news reports I heard/read this morning reported that Dmitry had been arrested on charges of copyright infringement. While I am glad that this case is getting some coverage, I am tired of hearing Dmitry referred to as a Russian HACKER and this whole infringement bit. Below is the nice response I received from one of the folks I tried to gently correct. I will continue to "assist" the media in getting it right. . . and I hope others do the same. Rebecca -----Original Message----- From: Paczkowski, John [mailto:JPaczkowski@knightridder.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 10:07 AM To: 'Rebecca J. Hill' Subject: RE: Sklyarov Point taken, Rebecca. I really should know better. I've updated my column to further clarify my original phrasing. For what it's worth, the original text of my column also included this phrase which addresses the true nature of the alleged violation: "Sklyarov stands accused of violating the Digital Millennium Copyright Act by developing and distributing a program that decrypts and converts eBook files to PDF." Best, John __________________________________________________ John Paczkowski Good Morning Silicon Valley | http://www.gmsv.com SiliconValley.com | http://www.siliconvalley.com ----- Knight Ridder Digital 35 South Market Street San Jose, CA 95113 -----Original Message----- From: Rebecca J. Hill Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 9:43 AM To: jpaczkowski@knightridder.com Subject: Sklyarov Hello, While I am very pleased that you are providing some coverage of Dmitry Sklyarov's case, I am disappointed that you mistakenly report that Sklyarov was arrested for copyright infringement. This is NOT TRUE. In fact, this is part of what makes the allegedly violated provision of the DMCA controversial--that no copyright infringement need occur to get ensnared by the "anti-circumvention" provisions. Instead of going into more detail here, I simply encourage you (and other media folks) to read the criminal complaint, the portions of the copyright code involved, and the comprehensive FAQ about the case provided by the Electronic Frontier Foundation--all can be found through www.eff.org. Thanks, Rebecca From byoungvt at yahoo.com Tue Aug 7 13:59:25 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dangers of eTextbooks In-Reply-To: <3B70529E.D3316ADA@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20010807205925.79540.qmail@web14503.mail.yahoo.com> That is like asking Honda if I can drive my motorcycle today. Why do I have to ask a company permission to read, or loan a book to a friend ONLY IF the publisher grants permission. This is the issue. Dmitry is not in prison, but part of his defense, at least in the public court of opinion is did he write something malicious like a virus, or a tool for the greater good. Tell any student that he wrote a tool that ensures they will always have the ability to use a textbook after one semester, whether it be an ebook or physical book and they will side with you. Many programmers keep books from school as reference material. I can see from my computer: A Calc book Java Servlet Programming Java Programmer Reference Oracle SQL Interactive American Government Solaris For Managers All used as Textbooks in previous semesters. Under eTextbooks, they and they 50 or so other books I have in storage, would be gone. What will I have to do pay a monthly, daily, hourly, or per use subscription in the future to use a book??? Who will own the books?? AOL? That is where we are headed folks! We should stop it now!!!! --- mickey wrote: > > "Additionally, if the publisher grants permission, > users can lend and > give their eBook selections between > Acrobat eBook Readers, as well as print the content. > " > > > > brad young wrote: > > > Now here is one that concerns all students: > > > > http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/010801/0293.html > > http://www.metatext.com/students/index.htm > > > > eTextbooks that expire after one semester. The > > publishers must love these > > > > -No used book market-prices will skyrocket > > -You can't lend eTextbook to a friend > > -You can't give it to someone to use next semester > > -No material cost > > -No school bookstore (middleman) which also happen > to > > employ lots of students, many of which (like SJSU) > are > > owned by the students. > > -Professors can't copy pages to hand out for > > instructional purposes > > > > Maybe we should flyer Stanford, Berkley, SJSU > during > > book buying season???? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From sisgeek at yahoo.com Tue Aug 7 14:14:31 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Computer Book Publisher Says "Free Dmitry" (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010807211431.55831.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> congrat:) --- Len Sassaman wrote: > [No Starch is publishing my upcoming book on email > security. Just > got this announcement. --Len.] > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:11:28 -0700 > From: Amanda Staab > To: No Starch News > Subject: Computer Book Publisher Says "Free Dmitry" > > ********************* > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > ********************* > > SAN FRANCISCO, CA - No Starch Press, Inc.'s > publisher William Pollock calls > for publishers to cast aside proprietary electronic > book formats. The letter > follows: > > I am the publisher and owner of No Starch Press, > Inc., a book publishing > company. No Starch Press has published several > best-selling books, including > STEAL THIS COMPUTER BOOK, THE BOOK OF JAVASCRIPT, > and the ASTRONOMER'S > COMPUTER COMPANION. > > As a publisher, I believe that readers have certain > important fair-use > rights that pertain to both electronic and printed > books that they should be > able to exercise without asking our permission. We > control certain rights to > our books that are protected by law, and we > encourage our customers' control > of certain rights as readers. > > Readers of electronic books should be able to read > their electronic books > just as they read their printed books - wherever and > whenever they please - > and they should be able to share their electronic > books with others. They > should also have the right to read their electronic > books with a Braille > terminal or text-to-speech device, and to read them > on more than one > computer. > > The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) was > designed to protect our > rights as publishers in the electronic arena, but it > fails to preserve > copyright law's historic ability to balance the > interests of publishers with > those of readers. The FBI's arrest of Dmitry > Sklyarov, a Russian citizen who > helped to create the Advanced eBook Processor for > his company, Elcomsoft, > was an overblown and misguided test of the DMCA. > While I am certainly > opposed to the illegal copying and sale of books, I > think the government > should spend more time prosecuting the real > offenders: The people and > companies who make and sell illegal copies of books, > not the software tool > developers. > > We do not publish our books in proprietary eBook > formats because these > formats limit the reader's experience and put > unnecessary restraints on > information. We have, however, released several of > our titles under various > copyleft-type licenses, and will continue to do so. > The eBook format is > flawed because it denies some basic rights to > readers that they > automatically have when they buy a printed book. > > As an industry we have a problem to solve regarding > the electronic delivery > of books, and I am eager to find a solution that > works for everyone > involved, including publishers, authors, and > readers. By punishing Dmitry, > our government is making it clear that they are not > interested in readers' > rights. > > I encourage publishers not to use proprietary > electronic book formats. We > have a responsibility as publishers to continue to > maintain and defend the > rights of readers to read and enjoy their books > whenever and wherever they > choose, and that responsibility must not be taken > lightly. > > William Pollock, Publisher > No Starch Press, Inc. > > ABOUT NO STARCH PRESS > Founded in San Francisco in 1994, No Starch Press > (www.nostarch.com) > publishes computer books that make a difference on > topics like Open Source, > Web development, robotics, and computer security. > > Media Contact: Amanda Staab, 415/863-9900, > amanda@nostarch.com, 555 De Haro > Street, Suite 250, San Francisco, CA 94107 > > _____________ > To be removed from this list, simply reply with > “remove” in your message. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From csm at MoonGroup.com Tue Aug 7 14:16:19 2001 From: csm at MoonGroup.com (Chuck Mead) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20010807204205.10153.qmail@web14509.mail.yahoo.com>; from byoungvt@yahoo.com on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 01:42:05PM -0700 References: <20010807204205.10153.qmail@web14509.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010807171619.H18770@stealth> * brad young (byoungvt@yahoo.com) wrote: > > Here is the specific link where they say the books > expire after a semester: > > http://www.metatext.com/students/getting_started.htm > > also read profitable below: > > http://www.metatext.com/publishers/index.htm > > What a smack in the face to the right of First > Sale!!!! So I click on the link and I'm checking out Metatext... I go to the store and select North Carolina and Duke University. I don't have a course number so I just click through and it comes up with "101 Golf Maximus" taught by Aubrey, Martin; Section 01, 10:00am-7:00pm DUKE UNIVERSITY (now I'm thinking that this must be a demo entry but I press on) and what are the titles I see associated with this course? MetaTexts Listed by the Instructor: The Declaration of Independence of the United States of America Jefferson, Thomas Project Gutenberg, ISBN0585099979, free/180 days The Origin of Species Darwin, Charles Project Gutenberg, ISBN0585102333, free/180 days Civil Disobedience Thoreau, Henry David Alex Catalogue, ISBN0585066523, free/180 days The Comedy of Errors Shakespeare, William Project Gutenberg, ISBN0585005168, free/180 days Anybody besides me see the humor here? -- Have U seen the dirty bird? | You roll my log, and I will roll yours. http://www.moongroup.com | -- Lucius Annaeus Seneca Kernel 2.4.3-12 - i686 cpu | | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010807/e58c1875/attachment.pgp From jim at media.mit.edu Tue Aug 7 14:23:40 2001 From: jim at media.mit.edu (Jim Youll) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Photos of Dmitry post-release needed for press requests Message-ID: <200108072123.RAA31226@dns2.newmediagroup.com> if you have a post-arrest photo(s) of Dmitry or know of photographers who do, please get in touch with me. the International press are hungry for images. Please reply by e-mail as I can only skim the zork-based list in digest form, which doesn't come until the next morning. -- http://www.media.mit.edu/~jim research assistant . software agents group . e-markets sig mit media lab . cambridge, ma Free Dmitry Sklyarov ... http://freesklyarov.org/ From cycmn at nyct.net Tue Aug 7 14:28:31 2001 From: cycmn at nyct.net (J.E. Cripps) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dangers of eTextbooks In-Reply-To: <20010807203057.81824.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010807171321.S888-100000@bsd1.nyct.net> > eTextbooks that expire after one semester. The > publishers must love these I remember Richard Stallman stating that textbooks should be free. Didn't quite appreciate that at the time. From jono at microshaft.org Tue Aug 7 14:28:44 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dangers of eTextbooks In-Reply-To: <20010807205925.79540.qmail@web14503.mail.yahoo.com>; from byoungvt@yahoo.com on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 01:59:25PM -0700 References: <3B70529E.D3316ADA@mindspring.com> <20010807205925.79540.qmail@web14503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010807142844.B1019@networkcommand.com> MetaText is a division of NetLibrary: http://www.metatext.com/about/index.htm http://www.metatext.com/about/privacy.htm http://www.netLibrary.com/help/privacy_statement.asp On 07-Aug-2001, brad young wrote: > That is like asking Honda if I can drive my motorcycle > today. Why do I have to ask a company permission to > read, or loan a book to a friend ONLY IF the publisher > grants permission. This is the issue. > > Dmitry is not in prison, but part of his defense, at > least in the public court of opinion is did he write > something malicious like a virus, or a tool for the > greater good. > > Tell any student that he wrote a tool that ensures > they will always have the ability to use a textbook > after one semester, whether it be an ebook or physical > book and they will side with you. > > Many programmers keep books from school as reference > material. I can see from my computer: > > A Calc book > Java Servlet Programming > Java Programmer Reference > Oracle SQL Interactive > American Government > Solaris For Managers > > All used as Textbooks in previous semesters. Under > eTextbooks, they and they 50 or so other books I have > in storage, would be gone. What will I have to do pay > a monthly, daily, hourly, or per use subscription in > the future to use a book??? Who will own the books?? > AOL? That is where we are headed folks! > > We should stop it now!!!! > > > > > --- mickey wrote: > > > > "Additionally, if the publisher grants permission, > > users can lend and > > give their eBook selections between > > Acrobat eBook Readers, as well as print the content. > > " > > > > > > > > brad young wrote: > > > > > Now here is one that concerns all students: > > > > > > http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/010801/0293.html > > > http://www.metatext.com/students/index.htm > > > > > > eTextbooks that expire after one semester. The > > > publishers must love these > > > > > > -No used book market-prices will skyrocket > > > -You can't lend eTextbook to a friend > > > -You can't give it to someone to use next semester > > > -No material cost > > > -No school bookstore (middleman) which also happen > > to > > > employ lots of students, many of which (like SJSU) > > are > > > owned by the students. > > > -Professors can't copy pages to hand out for > > > instructional purposes > > > > > > Maybe we should flyer Stanford, Berkley, SJSU > > during > > > book buying season???? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From ben at kalifornia.com Tue Aug 7 14:36:19 2001 From: ben at kalifornia.com (Ben Ford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] eTextbook II References: <20010807203846.59022.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B705F53.1030907@kalifornia.com> brad young wrote: >Here is the specific link where they say the books >expire after a semester: > >http://www.metatext.com/students/getting_started.htm > >also read profitable below: > >http://www.metatext.com/publishers/index.htm > >What a smack in the face to the right of First Sale!!!! > You know, I still have most of my books from college and some that weren't even mine. That is kind of the point when you have something you want to learn, isn't it? Besides, schools change texts often enough that publishers don't have to worry about kids reselling the books! -b -- Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are going to burn in Hell forever. From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Tue Aug 7 14:39:19 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] technically inaccurate news reports In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Aug 2001, Rebecca J. Hill wrote: > This is nit-picking, I know. The first two news reports I heard/read this > morning reported that Dmitry had been arrested on charges of copyright > infringement. I heard this too. I'm also puzzled by the difference in coverage among stations. Here in the Bay area, news channel 11 is completely on top of everything, with other stations at least giving it a mention w/ footage ... except for Fox 2. For some reason, Fox devotes maybe a sentence without any video in the "oh yeah, here's the rest of the news real quickly" trash bin at the end of the show. Of course, this is the aliens-from-Roswell-that-built-the-pyramids channel, so its a bit naive of me to complain about their coverage. =S [I also heard the technews reporter refer to Sklyarov as, presently, "the most famous programmer in the world."] From jays at panix.com Tue Aug 7 14:48:09 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [fairuse] Re: [wwwac] Dmitry out on Bail (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 17:36:59 -0400 From: Vagn Scott To: fairuse@mrbrklyn.com Cc: Jay Sulzberger Subject: Re: [fairuse] Re: [wwwac] Dmitry out on Bail Jay Sulzberger wrote: > I spoke today to my old friend L. L does not own a computer, does not use > a computer at work, and has never sent or received an email in her life. > We were catching up and I told her that I was at Monday's rally. I > started to explain what the issue was, and she broke in "Well, for about > two years now the big publishers have been pushing to get libraries to > charge for entry and also to rent out books, rather than loaning them for > free. The publishers want to put out books only on computers, so they can > keep charging for them.". L learned of the plot against free public > libraries about two years when she was at a library. A librarian told > her. She knows, but is she letting others know? Can we tell the story in such a way that people can't wait to pass it on? === Meme Factory ======== Society has advanced to the point where we no longer burn books: we electrocute them. E-books are for e-diots. ---------------- problem: The pen is mightier than the sword. solution: Do away with paper and ink! E-books are or e-diots. ---------------- The business plan for e-books: If we can just get all the smart people thrown in jail we'll make a fortune! E-books are for e-diots. ---------------- You need to screw in a light bulb. The instructions are printed in an e-book. Q: How many e-books does it take to screw in a light bulb? A: One for each installer. No one is allowed to read another person's e-book. E-books are for e-diots. ---------------- Q: How many FBI agents does it take to screw in a light bulb? A: None. The FBI is there to lock up people who share e-books. E-books are for e-diots. ---------------- Q: How many librarians does it take to screw in a light bulb? A: What's a librarian? E-books are for e-diots. -- _~|__ >@ (vagn( / \`-ooooooooo-'/ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From jono at microshaft.org Tue Aug 7 14:48:41 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dangers of eTextbooks In-Reply-To: <20010807171321.S888-100000@bsd1.nyct.net>; from cycmn@nyct.net on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 05:28:31PM -0400 References: <20010807203057.81824.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> <20010807171321.S888-100000@bsd1.nyct.net> Message-ID: <20010807144841.C1019@networkcommand.com> Humm: #whois openebook.org Whois Server Version 1.3 Registrant: MICROSOFT (OPENEBOOK3-DOM) One Microsoft Way REDMOND, WA 98052 US Domain Name: OPENEBOOK.ORG Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Billing Contact: Conboy, Garth (GC5065) gc@SOFTBOOKPRESS.COM SoftBook Press, Inc. 7745 Herschel Ave. La Jolla , CA 92037 619-551-4949 (FAX) 619-454-8502 Record last updated on 07-Feb-2001. Record expires on 05-Oct-2002. Record created on 05-Oct-1998. Database last updated on 7-Aug-2001 07:49:00 EDT. Domain servers in listed order: TROLL.SOFTBOOKPRESS.COM 208.211.82.2 AUTH50.NS.UU.NET 198.6.1.161 Troll is right: SOFTBOOKPRESS.COM owned by MS? On 07-Aug-2001, J.E. Cripps wrote: > > > eTextbooks that expire after one semester. The > > publishers must love these > > I remember Richard Stallman stating that textbooks should be free. > Didn't quite appreciate that at the time. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From sisgeek at yahoo.com Tue Aug 7 14:48:51 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Photos of Dmitry post-release needed for press requests In-Reply-To: <200108072123.RAA31226@dns2.newmediagroup.com> Message-ID: <20010807214852.85608.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> jim, you might want to contact cron 4 they shot video of dima leaving the jail here is some of the footage http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object.cgi?object=/av/movies/2001/08/06/hacker_kronq.mov&paper=kron&file=hacker.DTL&directory=/kron/archive/2001/08/06&type=generic --- Jim Youll wrote: > if you have a post-arrest photo(s) of Dmitry or know > of photographers who do, please get in touch with > me. the International press are hungry for images. > > Please reply by e-mail as I can only skim the > zork-based list in digest form, which doesn't come > until the next morning. > -- > > http://www.media.mit.edu/~jim > research assistant . software agents group . > e-markets sig > mit media lab . cambridge, ma > > Free Dmitry Sklyarov ... http://freesklyarov.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Tue Aug 7 14:54:16 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Photos of Dmitry post-release needed for press requests In-Reply-To: <200108072123.RAA31226@dns2.newmediagroup.com> Message-ID: <20010807215416.29660.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com> carrie can you help jim re perms to use (make stills) some of the footage at http://sfgate.com/av/movies/2001/08/06/hacker_kronq.mov? --- Jim Youll wrote: > if you have a post-arrest photo(s) of Dmitry or know > of photographers who do, please get in touch with > me. the International press are hungry for images. > > Please reply by e-mail as I can only skim the > zork-based list in digest form, which doesn't come > until the next morning. > -- > > http://www.media.mit.edu/~jim > research assistant . software agents group . > e-markets sig > mit media lab . cambridge, ma > > Free Dmitry Sklyarov ... http://freesklyarov.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From scott at renfro.org Tue Aug 7 14:57:11 2001 From: scott at renfro.org (Scott Renfro) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: <20010730085821.A29454@lemuria.org>; from tom@lemuria.org on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 08:58:21AM +0200 References: <20010730085821.A29454@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20010807145711.E2309@bonsai.home.renfro.org> On Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 08:58:21AM +0200, Tom wrote: > On Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 10:15:50PM -0500, James S. Huggins wrote: > > ========================================= > > Suggestions so far are: > > > > 1) Copy controlled media > > 2) Usage controlled media > > 3) Crippled media (My suggestion) > > ========================================= > > "restricted" > "controlled" This one just dawned on me (yeah, I know a week late ;-) ''Restricted use media'' Although ''Usage restricted media'' had been proposed, this rolls off the tongue much more easily while still driving home the notion that it's about more than copying and protecting. It also contrasts nicely with ''fair-use''. cheers, --Scott -- Scott Renfro +1 650 862 4206 From ckirby at sfchronicle.com Tue Aug 7 15:15:55 2001 From: ckirby at sfchronicle.com (Carrie Kirby) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Photos of Dmitry post-release needed for pres s requests Message-ID: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D463C@sfc-exmail1> Sorry, but I can't. It looks like that is from Kron 4, which is no longer owned by the Chronicle. You could try contacting the SFGate people at ed@sfgate.com. I know Associated Press photographers were at the courthouse yesterday, and a Chronicle photog was there too, but I guess they didn't get any photos of Dmitry coming out. Too bad, because I don't know if any print publications will want to use a video still. Maybe. Carrie -----Original Message----- From: alfee cube [mailto:sisgeek@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 2:54 PM To: Jim Youll; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Photos of Dmitry post-release needed for press requests carrie can you help jim re perms to use (make stills) some of the footage at http://sfgate.com/av/movies/2001/08/06/hacker_kronq.mov? --- Jim Youll wrote: > if you have a post-arrest photo(s) of Dmitry or know > of photographers who do, please get in touch with > me. the International press are hungry for images. > > Please reply by e-mail as I can only skim the > zork-based list in digest form, which doesn't come > until the next morning. > -- > > http://www.media.mit.edu/~jim > research assistant . software agents group . > e-markets sig > mit media lab . cambridge, ma > > Free Dmitry Sklyarov ... http://freesklyarov.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From tom at lemuria.org Tue Aug 7 15:13:14 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20010807171619.H18770@stealth>; from csm@MoonGroup.com on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 05:16:19PM -0400 References: <20010807204205.10153.qmail@web14509.mail.yahoo.com> <20010807171619.H18770@stealth> Message-ID: <20010808001314.A3810@lemuria.org> On Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 05:16:19PM -0400, Chuck Mead wrote: > MetaTexts Listed by the Instructor: > > The Declaration of Independence of the United States of America > Jefferson, Thomas > Project Gutenberg, ISBN0585099979, free/180 days [...] > Anybody besides me see the humor here? no. this isn't funny anymore. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From jono at microshaft.org Tue Aug 7 15:24:16 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: Employment Opportunity - COMPUTER FORENSIC INVESTIGATOR Message-ID: <20010807152416.H1019@networkcommand.com> ----- Forwarded message from chas-sue@erols.com ----- Mailing-List: contact securityjobs-help@securityfocus.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Delivered-To: mailing list securityjobs@securityfocus.com Delivered-To: moderator for securityjobs@securityfocus.com Date: 6 Aug 2001 01:18:10 -0000 From: To: securityjobs@securityfocus.com X-Mailer: Security Focus Subject: RE: Employment Opportunity EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY COMPUTER FORENSIC INVESTIGATOR The New Jersey Attorney General's Office, Division of Criminal Justice, announces openings for Computer Forensic Investigators. Two types of positions are available, a sworn law enforcement track and a civilian analyst track. POSITION DESCRIPTION The New Jersey Attorney General's Office is a state law enforcement agency that has a dedicated Computer Crimes Unit and is in the process of expanding its capabilities. Successful candidates will investigate computer crimes (both traditional and non-traditional offenses), execute search warrants, perform forensic examinations on seized computers and related items/media and testify in Superior Court. REQUIREMENTS Computer Forensic Investigators must possess moderate to high-level computer skills. The prospective candidates should have a law enforcement background or a keen desire to work on behalf of a law enforcement agency. Prior experience with computer forensics and/or a B.S./B.A. in Computer Science or a related discipline is a definite advantage. Successful candidates for the sworn law enforcement positions must attend and complete an 18 week course of basic training at a police academy. ANNUAL SALARY RANGE $33,000 to $60,000, depending on experience and qualifications. Substantial and ongoing training in computer forensics, search and seizure law, and criminal investigations. HOW TO APPLY Send all inquiries and resumes to: Charles Ouslander, Esq. ouslanderc@njdcj.org ----- End forwarded message ----- From mech at eff.org Tue Aug 7 15:29:10 2001 From: mech at eff.org (Stanton McCandlish) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Journo & EFF need hi-rez version of Dmitry color face pic In-Reply-To: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D463C@sfc-exmail1> References: <5ACD47EC1089FD488F96AACD79A0B97C2D463C@sfc-exmail1> Message-ID: J.P. Pappis, news@gammapress.com, needs a high-resolution copy of the color portrait of Dmitry that we've all been using. I don't have one, I don't know who took the picture or how to contact them. Please contact news@gammpress.com directly, but Cc me to I know who to talk to about getting a copy as well; we get requests for Dmitry pics constantly, but only have low-rez JPEGs and PNGs. Any other print-quality pics would be welcome, esp. post-hearing. We'd need your permission (& contact info) to give them to journalists to use, free but with credit to whoever took the picture(s). -- -- Stanton McCandlish mech@eff.org http://www.eff.org/~mech Technical Director/Webmaster Electronic Frontier Foundation voice: +1 415 436 9333 x105 fax: +1 415 436 9993 EFF, 454 Shotwell St. San Francisco CA 94110 USA From sisgeek at yahoo.com Tue Aug 7 15:32:19 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20010808001314.A3810@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20010807223219.29514.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> sometimes you gotta laugh so you don't cry! --- Tom wrote: > On Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 05:16:19PM -0400, Chuck Mead > wrote: > > MetaTexts Listed by the Instructor: > > > > The Declaration of Independence of the United > States of America > > Jefferson, Thomas > > Project Gutenberg, ISBN0585099979, free/180 days > [...] > > > Anybody besides me see the humor here? > > no. this isn't funny anymore. > > > -- > -- http://web.lemuria.org > -- > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From kmself at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 7 15:28:53 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] technically inaccurate news reports In-Reply-To: ; from rjhill@directvinternet.com on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 01:47:37PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010807152853.D31438@navel.introspect> on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 01:47:37PM -0700, Rebecca J. Hill (rjhill@directvinternet.com) wrote: > This is nit-picking, I know. The first two news reports I heard/read this > morning reported that Dmitry had been arrested on charges of copyright > infringement. While I am glad that this case is getting some coverage, I am > tired of hearing Dmitry referred to as a Russian HACKER and this whole > infringement bit. Below is the nice response I received from one of the > folks I tried to gently correct. I will continue to "assist" the media in > getting it right. . . and I hope others do the same. I posted a response to KQED-FM in San Francisco, following an evening local headlines brief which claimed "copyright infringement", I suggested, similarly, "DMCA violation". More recent NPR announcements have used the latter. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010807/950ae5a3/attachment.pgp From jono at microshaft.org Tue Aug 7 15:33:38 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NetBSD gets threat letter from Dolby Laboratories Message-ID: <20010807153338.I1019@networkcommand.com> Hijacked from Slashdot. Another case of DMCA infringment: http://www.netbsd.org/Letters/20010803-dolby.html Felten v. RIAA NetBSD v. Dolby US v. Skylarov I think there are a couple more... From kmself at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 7 15:33:39 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] technically inaccurate news reports In-Reply-To: <20010807152853.D31438@navel.introspect>; from kmself@ix.netcom.com on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 03:28:53PM -0700 References: <20010807152853.D31438@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <20010807153339.F31438@navel.introspect> on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 03:28:53PM -0700, Karsten M. Self (kmself@ix.netcom.com) wrote: > on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 01:47:37PM -0700, Rebecca J. Hill (rjhill@directvinternet.com) wrote: > > This is nit-picking, I know. The first two news reports I heard/read this > > morning reported that Dmitry had been arrested on charges of copyright > > infringement. While I am glad that this case is getting some coverage, I am > > tired of hearing Dmitry referred to as a Russian HACKER and this whole > > infringement bit. Below is the nice response I received from one of the > > folks I tried to gently correct. I will continue to "assist" the media in > > getting it right. . . and I hope others do the same. > > I posted a response to KQED-FM in San Francisco, following an evening > local headlines brief which claimed "copyright infringement", I > suggested, similarly, "DMCA violation". More recent NPR announcements > have used the latter. Just heard back from KQED on this. Their local news is AP "rip and read", and the story was read as presented by AP. They and/or their sources are who made the error. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010807/23c8fcd9/attachment.pgp From kmself at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 7 15:36:24 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NetBSD gets threat letter from Dolby Laboratories In-Reply-To: <20010807153338.I1019@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 03:33:38PM -0700 References: <20010807153338.I1019@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010807153624.G31438@navel.introspect> on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 03:33:38PM -0700, Jon O . (jono@microshaft.org) wrote: > > > Hijacked from Slashdot. Another case of DMCA infringment: > > http://www.netbsd.org/Letters/20010803-dolby.html Dolby: He blindsided me with patents? -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010807/e282c102/attachment.pgp From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Tue Aug 7 15:40:48 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Article in The Standard Message-ID: Russian Programmer Is Released - But Not Free By Scott Harris Dmitry Sklyarov is out of jail but still faces trial on charges of violating the controversial Digital Millennium Copyright Act. http://www.thestandard.com/article/0,1902,28504,00.html From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Tue Aug 7 15:57:04 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Moscow protest, 30 Aug Message-ID: <00d501c11f94$4af781c0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, calendar! == == Date: Thursday, Aug, 30 Time: 11:00-13:00 MSK / 00:00-02:00 PDT / 07:00-09:00 UTC City: Moscow, Russia Details: Free Dmitry and Anti-DMCA protest with flyers, slogans, etc. We are makeing T-Shirts with anti-DMCA and FREE DMITRY slogans in cyrillic for first 20-50 protestants -- so consider flying to Moscow. ;-) Sponsored by Free Software Foundation, thank you, Richard! Location: American Embassy. We meet in the park (Kudrinskaja ploshad, 1) near Metro Barrikadnaja at 11:00. The same place, as the first protest. Contact Information: hscool@netclub.ru +7(095)162-4767, Ilya V. Vasilyev (or any person, who take the phone) Participants -- please, write to Sergey Kharlamov and ask to include you in local planning/announce list for this action. Web Site: http://www.porsche.ru/dmitry == == - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://hscool.org/ From jono at microshaft.org Tue Aug 7 15:58:27 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Outrage as book hits Japan schools Message-ID: <20010807155827.J1019@networkcommand.com> http://asia.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/east/08/07/japan.textbook/index.html TOKYO, Japan -- A controversial textbook, slammed by critics as an outrage for whitewashing wartime atrocities, will be used in Japan's public schools for the first time. ...allow three of the city's 45 schools to teach a volume called "new history textbook." Let the brainwashing continue... From byoungvt at yahoo.com Tue Aug 7 17:10:02 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Remember... Message-ID: <20010808001002.17937.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> Dmitry is not Free He just is in a much bigger cell. From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Tue Aug 7 17:15:50 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: <20010807145711.E2309@bonsai.home.renfro.org> Message-ID: Responding to the "classic 3" 1) Copy controlled media 2) Usage controlled media 3) Crippled media Scott Renfro wrote: This one just dawned on me (yeah, I know a week late ;-) ''Restricted use media'' Although ''Usage restricted media'' had been proposed, this rolls off the tongue much more easily while still driving home the notion that it's about more than copying and protecting. It also contrasts nicely with ''fair-use''. [end Scott] I'll add back to the discussion, some "seed ideas" posted 29.Jul. Maybe these, together with Scott's recent addition, will help spawn other ideas. Fair Use Restricted Fair Use Impaired Fair Use Crippled Use Impaired Use Limited Read Restricted Ownership Limited James S. Huggins From jono at microshaft.org Tue Aug 7 17:23:39 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Outrage as book hits Japan schools In-Reply-To: <20010807170643.B2697@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 05:06:43PM -0700 References: <20010807155827.J1019@networkcommand.com> <20010807163054.Z343@halibut.com> <20010807170643.B2697@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010807172339.C2697@networkcommand.com> David: I figured I should post this back to the list so it might make sense to everyone. Dmitry has quite a bit to do with eBooks. We have been discussing the Dangers of eBooks. This is Japan deciding to openly rewrite history using textbooks, textbooks which are quickly becoming eBooks. "I don't think our textbook is flawed," said Toshiaki Shirasawa, textbook department chief at the *book's publisher*, Fusosha. "It's the textbooks in the past that were wrong." Now, if you are only interested in Freeing Dmitry, you should have pretty good luck. If you want to prevent these types of arrests in the future, you should probably also go after the DMCA. If you go after the DMCA you will find the WIPO, WTO and other International Governments which are not listening to their people. Here is a case of Japan not listening to their people. The DMCA is a case of the US not listening to its people. Dmitry is in jail as a result of this. I like to address the sources of problems and not just the results. I think it is often more effective and the overall outcome is better. Thanks, Jon On 07-Aug-2001, David Carmean wrote: > > > > > > What's this got to do with Dmitry? > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 03:58:27PM -0700, Jon O . wrote: > > > > > > > > > http://asia.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/east/08/07/japan.textbook/index.html > > > TOKYO, Japan -- A controversial > > > textbook, slammed by critics as an > > > outrage for whitewashing wartime > > > atrocities, will be used in Japan's > > > public schools for the first time. > > > > > > ...allow three of the city's 45 > > > schools to teach a volume called "new > > > history textbook." > > > > > > > > > > > > Let the brainwashing continue... > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Aug 7 17:25:32 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: <20010807145711.E2309@bonsai.home.renfro.org> References: <20010730085821.A29454@lemuria.org> <20010807145711.E2309@bonsai.home.renfro.org> Message-ID: <87lmkvpfcz.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "SR" == Scott Renfro writes: SR> This one just dawned on me (yeah, I know a week late ;-) SR> ''Restricted use media'' I like this one. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From vadim at xcf.berkeley.edu Tue Aug 7 17:44:52 2001 From: vadim at xcf.berkeley.edu (Vadim Kogan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List subscribe/unsubscribe/etc. info Message-ID: <20010807174452.B32686@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> Hello people, Apparently there are individuals who use IE on Macs. Due to unhealthy nature of the above combination, those individuals had problems accessing list info pages on lists.xcf.berkeley.edu via SSL (AKA over HTTPS). If you know such a person, please inform them that I have posted the information on how to subscribe to the mailing lists via mail (i.e. without using web browser at all) right below the mailing list info on sf.freesklyarov.org. This things are after all mailing lists and the web interface is one of the new-wave add-ons. Everything that you ever need to do on it can be done by sending it mail. Please pay attention to the address you send list commands to though. Make sure it's the REQUEST address, not the MAILING LIST address. E.g. for 'free-sklyarov-sfba' you need to send administrative requests to 'free-sklyarov-sfba-request@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu'. Note the '-request' part. Mailman is smart. It knows about all kinds of people. It will try very hard to catch the administrative requests sent to the wrong place, but if you make the mistake in the request too and it cannot catch it, then this request will end up in the mailing list, which is not nice. Also note that you can always ask for help. No, not me, but mailman. You just need to send the word 'help' to the -request address. Oh, one last thing. The reason why those pages are available only over SSL is because there are passwords going through it. Not only user's passwords, but also administrative passwords. Note that the archives ARE available via HTTP (w/o SSL) as well as over SSL. Also note that this machine tries very hard to make sure that even if you tried to access it over http, you will end up talking HTTPS when there is a need. Making world (and my machines) even less secure than they are now is not very good idea IMHO. Vadim. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010807/42eb59f9/attachment.pgp From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Tue Aug 7 17:45:58 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Aug 2001, James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov) wrote: > Fair Use Restricted > Fair Use Impaired > Fair Use Crippled > Use Impaired I'd avoid terms that sound opinionated, because third parties are unlikely to use them. What would be nice is a term that people other than us will willingly adopt, say in a news article. WYAI, BTW: anyone who can come up with a better word than "content" wins a candy bar. I hate using that word, as it gives the impression that music and literature comprise some sort of bland, meterable commodity (In a way, it's the same linguistic trap as the term "intellectual property.") Engineers must call it "content" anyways, however, because they need *some* general term for all this multimedia stuff people are storing in digital format ("Media" doesn't work, because it refers to the underlying substrate, not the meaningful collection of bits and magic pixie dust thereupon.) > Use Limited > Read Restricted > Ownership Limited I like the second one. The third one is true even of normal books, and arguably so is the first. "Limited rights media" was suggested earlier. > James S. Huggins -S From twh1 at doc.ic.ac.uk Tue Aug 7 17:37:13 2001 From: twh1 at doc.ic.ac.uk (Theodore Hong) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [declan@well.com: FC: More on AAP, librarians, Waco, Ruby Ridge, and the Sklyarov case] Message-ID: <20010808013713.A17458@doc.ic.ac.uk> > August 1, 2001 > TO: U.S. ACM Public Policy Committee > FR: Allan Adler, VP for Legal and Governmental Affairs, AAP > RE: Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA") > This memorandum is intended to respond to the letter dated July 26, 2001 > which was sent to AAP President Pat Schroeder by Barbara Simons and Eugene > Spafford, Co-Chairs of the U.S. Public Policy Committee of the Association > for Computing Machinery ("ACM"), regarding ACM's opposition to the > anticircumvention provisions of the DMCA. As I see it, the essential flaw in Adler's argument is that it starts from the point of view that infringement must be made impossible no matter what the cost. Thus, the fact that technological measures will inevitably be broken leads him to the conclusion that circumvention must be made a crime, not that such measures are futile and other approaches need to be taken. The fact that anti-circumvention laws might be ineffective if fair use exceptions were granted leads him to the conclusion that fair use must give way, not that anti-circumvention violates the public's rights. It is true that "fair use" does not grant an affirmative right of access to break into a movie theatre to view a movie showing there. The analogy is flawed, however, because fair use is not the only right at stake; more fundamentally, it is the right to do what you like with your personal property. While a theatre owner may legitimately exclude others from his premises, anti-circumvention laws aim to prevent you the movie buyer from gaining access to your own movie. A better analogy is to imagine buying a DVD in the form of a television inside a locked box that can only be viewed through a small eyepiece. Blanket anti-circumvention laws forbid you to break open the box to view more conveniently, simply because you might then have the ability to show the movie to others. They pay no attention to your actual intent, nor indeed to your right to dispose of your personal property as you see fit. There are a wide range of legitimate uses one might have for an unlocked box beyond illegal infringement. In defining a legal standard that broadly criminalizes products for circumvention rather than infringement, the DMCA represents a substantial departure from the well-established Sony precedent, not merely a clarification. It might be considered clearer, but only in the sense that it forbids products which clearly ought to be legal. It must be recognized that the interests of publishers have to be balanced against the interests of the general public, and that solutions must be found which benefit both. The confrontational, supply-side approach of blocking infringement at any cost inevitably tramples the latter in a rush to protect the former. A far better approach that promotes both interests is to reduce demand, by providing convenient alternatives that make infringement simply not worth the hassle. theo -- Theodore Hong Department of Computing, Imperial College t.hong@doc.ic.ac.uk 180 Queen's Gate, London SW7 2BZ PGP key: http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~twh1/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 174 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010808/41b0ea95/attachment.pgp From andrea at gravitt.org Tue Aug 7 17:53:14 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NetBSD gets threat letter from Dolby Laboratories Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:33, Jon O . wrote: >Hijacked from Slashdot. Another case of DMCA infringment: >NetBSD v. Dolby This appears to be a patent issue. Dolby is claiming that the open source package is an unlicensed implementation of their patent. I think it was reverse-engineered, but I don't have any more details from my 30 seconds with Google. It is, of course, highly annoying that Dolby is making vague legal threats at NetBSD for merely supplying a link to something on another site (which now seems to be missing anyway.) They are claiming that by providing a link to another site, NetBSD is in effect violating the patent themselves. Now there is something to complain about, at least. That is similar to the 2600 case where they were forbidden to create a web link to information elsewhere, and for all I know Dolby is trying the same thing. Andrea From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Tue Aug 7 18:11:14 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [Fwd: Senator Dianne Feinstein responding to your message] In-Reply-To: <3B703856.3000309@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Ben Ford posted Dianne Feinsteins email and asked: Is this a crock or what? The email said, in part, > I regret to inform you that due to technical difficulties, I am > unable to read your e-mail. Messages that are not sent directly > through my website can not be retrieved by my office. Peter responded: No, it is ignorance. I don't think it is ignorance. I think it is a conscious effort. I would speculate that it is an attempt to avoid massive email campaigns. You create a web based form that you post at http://feinstein.senate.gov/email.html Then that form uses a special email address, in this case, webmail@feinstein-iq.senate.gov Then, you set up an autoresponder to the "normal" email address directing everyone to the web. Now, if people on the Free Sklyarov List attempt to all email you, they all have to go to the web and that inhibits the flow. James S. Huggins From crism at maden.org Tue Aug 7 18:19:03 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dangers of eTextbooks In-Reply-To: <20010807144841.C1019@networkcommand.com> References: <20010807171321.S888-100000@bsd1.nyct.net> <20010807203057.81824.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> <20010807171321.S888-100000@bsd1.nyct.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010807181627.00ab0140@mail.maden.org> At 14:48 7-08-2001, Jon O . wrote: >#whois openebook.org > >Whois Server Version 1.3 >Registrant: >MICROSOFT (OPENEBOOK3-DOM) > One Microsoft Way > REDMOND, WA 98052 > US > > Domain Name: OPENEBOOK.ORG > > Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Billing Contact: > Conboy, Garth (GC5065) gc@SOFTBOOKPRESS.COM > SoftBook Press, Inc. > 7745 Herschel Ave. > La Jolla , CA 92037 > 619-551-4949 (FAX) 619-454-8502 > > Record last updated on 07-Feb-2001. > Record expires on 05-Oct-2002. > Record created on 05-Oct-1998. > Database last updated on 7-Aug-2001 07:49:00 EDT. > > Domain servers in listed order: > > TROLL.SOFTBOOKPRESS.COM 208.211.82.2 > AUTH50.NS.UU.NET 198.6.1.161 > >Troll is right: >SOFTBOOKPRESS.COM owned by MS? Whu? No - MS is the registrant, and Garth is the admin contact, just as it says, no more. The Open eBook Forum is an industry consortium, of which both Microsoft and Softbook are members (along with Random House, Gemstar, Simon & Schuster, and a bunch of others). -crism, Open eBook Publication Structures Working Group member -- Christopher R. Maden, XML Consultant DTDs/schemas - conversion - ebooks - publishing - Web - B2B - training PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From warthawg at ecpi.com Tue Aug 7 19:17:16 2001 From: warthawg at ecpi.com (Joe Barr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] CDR: Public Records in USA v. Sklyarov (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010807211716.1a6ff355.warthawg@ecpi.com> Sealed to avoid placing any agents at risk during the investigation? Something stinks to high heaven here, but I can't quite put my nose on it. On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 13:22:36 -0700 (PDT) Len Sassaman wrote: > And they are still spelling his name wrong. > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 22:00:52 -0700 > From: John Young > Reply-To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com > To: cypherpunks@lne.com > Subject: CDR: Public Records in USA v. Sklyarov > > Cryptome has obtained 60 pages of public records filed in > USA v. Dmitry Sklyarov: five pages of Court documents and > 55 pages of submissions in support of Dmitry's character and > achievements. They are offered in compressed TIFF format: > > Court Documents: > > Order Setting Conditions of Release and Appearance Bond, August 6, 2001 > > http://cryptome.org/ds-bond-order.tif (1 page, 87KB) > > Magistrate Judge Minute Order, August 6, 2001 > > http://cryptome.org/ds-minute-order.tif (1 page, 83KB) > > Warrant for Arrest, July 11, 2001 > > http://cryptome.org/ds-arrest-warrant.tif (1 page, 43KB) > > USA Motion to Seal the Criminal Complaint and Arrest Warrant, July 11, 2001 > > http://cryptome.org/ds-motion-to-seal.tif (1 page, 42KB) > > Sealing Order by Magistrate Patricia Trumbull, July 11, 2001 > > http://cryptome.org/ds-order-to-seal.tif (1 page, 28KB) > > These five are available in a Zipped file: > > http://cryptome.org/sklyarov-orders.zip (5 pages, 276KB) > > The Criminal Complaint was also in the public records but > heretofore published: > > http://cryptome.org/usa-v-sklyarov.htm > > Submissions in Support of Dmitry: > > English and Russian documents -- consulate letters, certificates > of education and achievement, letters of colleagues, friends and > Elcomsoft clients -- in a Zipped file of compressed TIFF images: > > http://cryptome.org/sklyarov-vouch.zip (55 pages, 2.82MB) > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- #=============================================# # We do not execute retarded people in Texas. # # We make them governor. # #=============================================# From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Tue Aug 7 19:22:19 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology References: <20010730085821.A29454@lemuria.org> <20010807145711.E2309@bonsai.home.renfro.org> Message-ID: <3B70A25B.9EFB7636@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> ''Restricted use media'' This is some good work, actually. People, take note of James' phrase. Though it's so simple and obvious, it really is fine. A great product of the brainstorming session that's gone on in this thread, and shows how sticking with something and letting it germinate, can let you come around to phrasing that "comes across." Seth Johnson Scott Renfro wrote: > > ''Restricted use media'' > > Although ''Usage restricted media'' had been proposed, this rolls off > the tongue much more easily while still driving home the notion that > it's about more than copying and protecting. It also contrasts nicely > with ''fair-use''. From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Tue Aug 7 19:27:25 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: <3B70A25B.9EFB7636@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Message-ID: ============= ''Restricted use media'' This is some good work, actually. People, take note of James' phrase. ================== Actually, I think it was Scott's phrase. James S. Huggins From admin at seattle-chat.com Tue Aug 7 19:32:36 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] CDR: Public Records in USA v. Sklyarov (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20010807211716.1a6ff355.warthawg@ecpi.com> Message-ID: Well you know us militant geeks (sp?) :P. I wonder who they're afraid of? -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Joe Barr Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 7:17 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] CDR: Public Records in USA v. Sklyarov (fwd) Sealed to avoid placing any agents at risk during the investigation? Something stinks to high heaven here, but I can't quite put my nose on it. On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 13:22:36 -0700 (PDT) Len Sassaman wrote: > And they are still spelling his name wrong. > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 22:00:52 -0700 > From: John Young > Reply-To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com > To: cypherpunks@lne.com > Subject: CDR: Public Records in USA v. Sklyarov > > Cryptome has obtained 60 pages of public records filed in > USA v. Dmitry Sklyarov: five pages of Court documents and > 55 pages of submissions in support of Dmitry's character and > achievements. They are offered in compressed TIFF format: > > Court Documents: > > Order Setting Conditions of Release and Appearance Bond, August 6, 2001 > > http://cryptome.org/ds-bond-order.tif (1 page, 87KB) > > Magistrate Judge Minute Order, August 6, 2001 > > http://cryptome.org/ds-minute-order.tif (1 page, 83KB) > > Warrant for Arrest, July 11, 2001 > > http://cryptome.org/ds-arrest-warrant.tif (1 page, 43KB) > > USA Motion to Seal the Criminal Complaint and Arrest Warrant, July 11, 2001 > > http://cryptome.org/ds-motion-to-seal.tif (1 page, 42KB) > > Sealing Order by Magistrate Patricia Trumbull, July 11, 2001 > > http://cryptome.org/ds-order-to-seal.tif (1 page, 28KB) > > These five are available in a Zipped file: > > http://cryptome.org/sklyarov-orders.zip (5 pages, 276KB) > > The Criminal Complaint was also in the public records but > heretofore published: > > http://cryptome.org/usa-v-sklyarov.htm > > Submissions in Support of Dmitry: > > English and Russian documents -- consulate letters, certificates > of education and achievement, letters of colleagues, friends and > Elcomsoft clients -- in a Zipped file of compressed TIFF images: > > http://cryptome.org/sklyarov-vouch.zip (55 pages, 2.82MB) > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- #=============================================# # We do not execute retarded people in Texas. # # We make them governor. # #=============================================# _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jtjm at xenoclast.org Tue Aug 7 19:27:24 2001 From: jtjm at xenoclast.org (Julian T. J. Midgley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20010808001314.A3810@lemuria.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Tom wrote: > On Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 05:16:19PM -0400, Chuck Mead wrote: > > MetaTexts Listed by the Instructor: > > > > The Declaration of Independence of the United States of America > > Jefferson, Thomas > > Project Gutenberg, ISBN0585099979, free/180 days > [...] > > > Anybody besides me see the humor here? > > no. this isn't funny anymore. No, it really isn't. So, why exactly would I pay anything at all for time-limited rights to a book that I could borrow for free from the library, or buy myself and lend to whomever I liked (or in the case of the various Gutenberg texts they are hawking, copy and distribute to anyone I liked)? It would seem natural that the cost of the 6 month licence would be some minute fraction of the cost of buying the paper version of the book, since it costs them next to nothing to distribute (compared to printing and binding costs), it self-destructs, and I'm not even allowed to lend it to a friend, wouldn't it? But, no: To choose an example at random: Business Law: Ethical, International and E-Commerce Environment by Henry R. Cheeseman (Have the guys at Metatext had their sense of irony removed, or what?) Amazon will sell me this this new in hardback for $119.67, or secondhand for $80. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0130879134/qid=997233212/sr=1-4/ref=sc_b_ 4/103-8694369-4901428 Alternatively, I could take up the very generous offer of a 180 day licence from Metatext for the princely sum of $89.52. Nothing like a good bargain, is there? http://www.metatext.com/servlet/tileBlurb?tileId=74896 This is just sickening. So much so that I've just registered "boycottmetatext.com", and it's going free to anyone who has the time to organise a boycott campaign against them (as someone else has already suggested, aggressive leafletting in any university that's been fool enough to sign up for their scam would be a good start). I can transfer the domain completely or point the domain wherever you like and provide free hosting if necessary (although my machine's in the UK, so it probably makes sense to host on a box in the States instead). I would do it myself, but I'm not exactly local, and am too busy organising the UK protests at the moment. Just drop me an email at jtjm@xenoclast.org, and it's all yours. To avoid diluting messages, it might sensible to wait until Dmitry is free before starting the boycott Metatext campaign, although I'll leave any decision on that to consensus. Julian -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F UK Free Dmitry Protest: http://uk.freesklyarov.org/ From freeds at wyrdwright.com Tue Aug 7 19:32:53 2001 From: freeds at wyrdwright.com (Barrington King) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NON-ADOBE version of new pamphlet Message-ID: Many thanks to Mike Castleman who was able to supply a new version of the "Drop the Charges" pamphlet using the latest version of ps2pdf. It is now available at http://www.wyrdwright.com/sklyarov/dropchargesv1a.pdf Apparently, it still doesn't display properly in gv. Does any X-pert out there have a fix? The postscript source is still available at http://www.wyrdwright.com/sklyarov/dropcharges1.ps if you do. BK From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Tue Aug 7 19:36:16 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology References: Message-ID: <3B70A5A0.D4C6EDF@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> "James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)" wrote: > > Actually, I think it was Scott's phrase. I guess you'd know! :-) My comments still ring out, to Scott's credit (if he's the one!). Seth Johnson From jono at microshaft.org Tue Aug 7 19:44:26 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Metatext In-Reply-To: ; from jtjm@xenoclast.org on Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 03:27:24AM +0100 References: <20010808001314.A3810@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20010807194426.A3703@networkcommand.com> > > Alternatively, I could take up the very generous offer of a 180 day > licence from Metatext for the princely sum of $89.52. Nothing like a good > bargain, is there? > > http://www.metatext.com/servlet/tileBlurb?tileId=74896 > > This is just sickening. So much so that I've just registered > "boycottmetatext.com", and it's going free to anyone who has the time to > organise a boycott campaign against them (as someone else has already > suggested, aggressive leafletting in any university that's been fool > enough to sign up for their scam would be a good start). > > I can transfer the domain completely or point the domain wherever you like > and provide free hosting if necessary (although my machine's in the UK, so > it probably makes sense to host on a box in the States instead). I would > do it myself, but I'm not exactly local, and am too busy organising the UK > protests at the moment. > > Just drop me an email at jtjm@xenoclast.org, and it's all yours. > > To avoid diluting messages, it might sensible to wait until Dmitry is free > before starting the boycott Metatext campaign, although I'll leave any > decision on that to consensus. Also something interesting to note about Metatext, they are owned by NetLibrary. http://www.netLibrary.com/help/privacy_statement.asp And someone on this list attempted to connect to NetLibrary from SJSU and it redirected them to: "The San Jose State University eBook Collection" as they stated "almost like it was sactioned by them or something." Now, Microsoft has that openEbook project which looks like Stallman's theory about a central licensing agency which monitors and permits ebook usage. We have already seen the Surveillance issue: http://www.microsoft.com/ebooks/das/antipiracy.asp the AAP has implemented an aggressive Internet surveillance program, which includes an automated, intelligent Internet search tool that searches for unauthorized distribution of eBook content 24 hours a day, seven days a week. From lists at tneu.visi.com Mon Aug 6 14:39:36 2001 From: lists at tneu.visi.com (Tim Neu) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Pro-Library/Book/Reading flier Message-ID: The following is a flier created specifically to raise DMCA issues in locations such as libraries and used bookstores. It focuses more on general DMCA issues than the free-sklyarov movement, but it may be of interest The intent is to focus the flier in a very pro-book, pro-library fashion so that we may be more easily able to get permission to have these sitting at the checkouts of used bookstores, libraries, etc. If there are any suggestions for improvement, please email me directly as the lists are so busy lately. tneu at visi.com Anyway, the link is http://www.visi.com/~tneu/pro-book.html Feel free to use this, if it helps. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- All of the problems associated with Intellectual property can easily be resolved by keeping those who believe in it on a strict diet of Intellectual bread and water. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ______ _ __ "If you don't have the freedom to use what you / ' ) ) own - then you do not own anything." / o ______ / / _ . . No apologies to Jack Valenti or the MPAA / <_/ / / < / (_; from jono@microshaft.org on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 05:23:39PM -0700 References: <20010807155827.J1019@networkcommand.com> <20010807163054.Z343@halibut.com> <20010807170643.B2697@networkcommand.com> <20010807172339.C2697@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010807195144.D30360@zork.net> Begin Jon O . quotation: > Dmitry has quite a bit to do with eBooks. We have been discussing > the Dangers of eBooks. This is Japan deciding to openly rewrite > history using textbooks, textbooks which are quickly becoming > eBooks. This strikes me as a tenuous link. "Well, pornography is distributed electronically, like e-books, so that's why I forwarded this pornography to the mailing list!" Please stay on the topic of freeing Dmitry Sklyarov. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From jono at microshaft.org Tue Aug 7 19:58:16 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Outrage as book hits Japan schools In-Reply-To: <20010807195144.D30360@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 07:51:44PM -0700 References: <20010807155827.J1019@networkcommand.com> <20010807163054.Z343@halibut.com> <20010807170643.B2697@networkcommand.com> <20010807172339.C2697@networkcommand.com> <20010807195144.D30360@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010807195815.B3703@networkcommand.com> On 07-Aug-2001, Nick Moffitt wrote: > Begin Jon O . quotation: > > Dmitry has quite a bit to do with eBooks. We have been discussing > > the Dangers of eBooks. This is Japan deciding to openly rewrite > > history using textbooks, textbooks which are quickly becoming > > eBooks. > > This strikes me as a tenuous link. > > "Well, pornography is distributed electronically, like > e-books, so that's why I forwarded this pornography to the mailing > list!" > > Please stay on the topic of freeing Dmitry Sklyarov. Again, many of the Free Dmitry Protesters use signs conveying messages about: Libraries Free Speech eBooks Anti-DMCA IP Issues Fair Use Etc. There are also disussion asking how we can involve Libraries, Open Source people, etc. If you attempt to take away anyone of these issues and create a "Free Dmitry Only" atmosphere it will not assist your cause. If this list, movement, etc becomes a "get this guy out of jail only" environment you will lose the overall battle and will have to unite again when the next DMCA voilation arrest occurrs. Do not forget, the first protest was not simply limited to "Free Dmitry" and had a strong "Boycott Adobe" theme... But, you may be right the people in Japan who don't like the textbook are probably a different bunch of folks with different motives. From scott at renfro.org Tue Aug 7 20:09:46 2001 From: scott at renfro.org (Scott Renfro) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: <3B70A5A0.D4C6EDF@Realmeasures.dyndns.org>; from seth.johnson@Realmeasures.dyndns.org on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 10:36:16PM -0400 References: <3B70A5A0.D4C6EDF@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20010807200946.F2309@bonsai.home.renfro.org> On Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 10:36:16PM -0400, Seth Johnson wrote: > > "James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)" wrote: > > > > Actually, I think it was Scott's phrase. > > > > > I guess you'd know! :-) > > My comments still ring out, to Scott's credit (if he's the one!). I did send it to the list but will just take credit for standing on the shoulders of giants, letting the lists' ideas 'germinate' (as you said) long enough for this simple variation to result. Glad I could contribute. --Scott -- Scott Renfro +1 650 862 4206 From nick at zork.net Tue Aug 7 20:15:50 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Outrage as book hits Japan schools In-Reply-To: <20010807195815.B3703@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 07:58:16PM -0700 References: <20010807155827.J1019@networkcommand.com> <20010807163054.Z343@halibut.com> <20010807170643.B2697@networkcommand.com> <20010807172339.C2697@networkcommand.com> <20010807195144.D30360@zork.net> <20010807195815.B3703@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010807201550.G30360@zork.net> Begin Jon O . quotation: > Again, many of the Free Dmitry Protesters use signs conveying > messages about: > Libraries > Free Speech > eBooks > Anti-DMCA > IP Issues > Fair Use > Etc. > > There are also disussion asking how we can involve Libraries, Open > Source people, etc. These are directly related to the topic of freeing dmitry. > But, you may be right the people in Japan who don't like the > textbook are probably a different bunch of folks with different > motives. If you would like, I can create a mailing list for the discussion of historical revisionism. I can set you up as the moderator and manager of the list. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From mickeym at mindspring.com Tue Aug 7 20:22:42 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (mickeym) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology References: <20010730085821.A29454@lemuria.org> <20010807145711.E2309@bonsai.home.renfro.org> <87lmkvpfcz.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <3B70B081.4D9E968D@mindspring.com> Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "SR" == Scott Renfro writes: > > SR> This one just dawned on me (yeah, I know a week late ;-) > > SR> ''Restricted use media'' > > I like this one. > > ~Klepht > > -- > klepht@eleutheria.org > http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov Restricted use media: This ain't your daddy's vhs tape. mickeym From ben at kalifornia.com Tue Aug 7 20:19:26 2001 From: ben at kalifornia.com (Ben Ford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NON-ADOBE version of new pamphlet References: Message-ID: <3B70AFBE.2000701@kalifornia.com> Barrington King wrote: >Many thanks to Mike Castleman who was able to supply a new version of the >"Drop the Charges" pamphlet using the latest version of ps2pdf. It is now >available at > >http://www.wyrdwright.com/sklyarov/dropchargesv1a.pdf > >Apparently, it still doesn't display properly in gv. Does any X-pert out >there have a fix? The postscript source is still available at >http://www.wyrdwright.com/sklyarov/dropcharges1.ps if you do. > >BK > Assuming the cover is black and white (as the ps version appears in gs), it displays well under xpdf. The .ps document was a broken link. Try this. http://www.wyrdwright.com/sklyarov/dropchargesv1.ps -b -- Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are going to burn in Hell forever. From jono at microshaft.org Tue Aug 7 20:33:17 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Outrage as book hits Japan schools In-Reply-To: <20010807201550.G30360@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 08:15:50PM -0700 References: <20010807155827.J1019@networkcommand.com> <20010807163054.Z343@halibut.com> <20010807170643.B2697@networkcommand.com> <20010807172339.C2697@networkcommand.com> <20010807195144.D30360@zork.net> <20010807195815.B3703@networkcommand.com> <20010807201550.G30360@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010807203317.C3703@networkcommand.com> On 07-Aug-2001, Nick Moffitt wrote: > Begin Jon O . quotation: > > Again, many of the Free Dmitry Protesters use signs conveying > > messages about: > > Libraries > > Free Speech > > eBooks > > Anti-DMCA > > IP Issues > > Fair Use > > Etc. > > > > There are also disussion asking how we can involve Libraries, Open > > Source people, etc. > > These are directly related to the topic of freeing dmitry. > > > But, you may be right the people in Japan who don't like the > > textbook are probably a different bunch of folks with different > > motives. > > If you would like, I can create a mailing list for the > discussion of historical revisionism. I can set you up as the > moderator and manager of the list. > Like I said, I'm sorry for wasting the bits if that email was off topic or not freeing dmitry. However, seeing as how the AAP is a publisher and many people have written the AAP -- the ACM even created a response, it seems very related to the Dmitry issue. Especially when the Publishers make statements like this: "I don't think our textbook is flawed," said Toshiaki Shirasawa, textbook department chief at the book's publisher, Fusosha. "It's the textbooks in the past that were wrong." Seems like the Publishers have a little too much power over there also. However, I will make sure I double check any emails I send to this list and make sure they relate to the freeing dmitry issue. No further behavior correction emails with suggestions for new lists are reqired, I now understand your motives. Thanks, Jon http://www.anti-dmca.org From proclus at iname.com Tue Aug 7 20:41:21 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NON-ADOBE version of new pamphlet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200108080341.f783fOk25555@moerbeke> Here is a postscript version that displays ok in GV, although the family pic is dithered ;-(. http://gnu-darwin.sourceforge.net/dropchargesv1a.ps Used pdf2ps, from ghostscript5.5, so it is free as can be. BTW, the PDF format appears as free to me too, although time will tell. Cheers! pdf2ps dropchargesv1a.pdf dropchargesv1a.ps Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ On 7 Aug, Barrington King wrote: > > Many thanks to Mike Castleman who was able to supply a new version of the > "Drop the Charges" pamphlet using the latest version of ps2pdf. It is now > available at > > http://www.wyrdwright.com/sklyarov/dropchargesv1a.pdf > > Apparently, it still doesn't display properly in gv. Does any X-pert out > there have a fix? The postscript source is still available at > http://www.wyrdwright.com/sklyarov/dropcharges1.ps if you do. > > BK > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From byoungvt at yahoo.com Tue Aug 7 20:56:35 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Linux World Message-ID: <20010808035635.82658.qmail@web14507.mail.yahoo.com> Would EFF give a chair/some space at their LinuxWorld booth to volunteers to help gather funds specifically marked for Dmitry's defense? I am sure many people would volunteer!!! I am assuming that it is too late/cost prohibitive to do it on our own. From byoungvt at yahoo.com Tue Aug 7 21:00:17 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: <3B70B081.4D9E968D@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20010808040017.83901.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> Intellectual Bottled Water --- mickeym wrote: > > Klepht wrote: > > > >>>>> "SR" == Scott Renfro > writes: > > > > SR> This one just dawned on me (yeah, I know a > week late ;-) > > > > SR> ''Restricted use media'' > > > > I like this one. > > > > ~Klepht > > > > -- > > klepht@eleutheria.org > > http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > Restricted use media: This ain't your daddy's vhs > tape. > > mickeym > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Tue Aug 7 21:39:45 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Peripherally related: Pavlovich (DVD programmer) loses jurisdiction ruling Message-ID: http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-6808196.html Out-of-state resident can be sued in DVD case By Jim Hu Staff Writer, CNET News.com August 7, 2001, 5:45 p.m. PT An out-of-state resident who allegedly posted computer code that circumvents DVD encryption measures can be sued under California law, a California appeals court ruled Tuesday. The Sixth Appellate Court of California decided that Matthew Pavlovich, who is not a California resident, could be tried for violating the state's trade secrets law. ... Ruling: http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/opinions/documents/H021961.PDF Trial Court Case: CV786804 Appellate Case: H021961 Pavlovich v. Superior Court of Santa Clara James S. Huggins From jays at panix.com Tue Aug 7 22:21:21 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [fairuse] Meme Factory (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 18:35:29 -0400 From: Vagn Scott Reply-To: fairuse@mrbrklyn.com To: "fairuse@mrbrklyn.com" Subject: [fairuse] Meme Factory Let's just kill e-books as a serious proposition. Here are some more: === Meme Factory ============ Q: What's the difference between an Edsel and an e-book? A: You won't go to jail if your friends see your Edsel. ***E-books are for e-diots. ----------------- Can't we just pull the plug on e-books? ***E-books are for e-diots. ----------------- An e-book resembles a book about as much as an iron lung resembles a lung. Blow someone a kiss and you get 5 years in federal prison and a half-million dollar fine. ***E-books are for e-diots. ----------------- I live my life by these 5 simple rules: Save the whales! Save the Rivers! Save the Rain Forest! Save the Planet! Fuck e-books! ***E-books are for e-diots! ---------------- Actually, e-books are not all that new. The dinosoaurs invented e-books sixty-five million and seventeen years ago, just before they became extinct! ***E-books are for e-diots. ---------------- Here's a fun new game. Any number can play, any where, and any time. The game is called "E-books are for e-diots" and the rules are simple: 1. Say something clever that proves "e-books are for e-diots." 2. The level of "proof" required is no greater than that which would satisfy Daffy Duck. 3. At the end of each turn all players sing or chant, in unison "E-books are for e-diots." 4. Extra points for singing harmony. 5. You must play to win. ***E-books are for e-diots. -- _~|__ >@ (vagn( / \`-ooooooooo-'/ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ____________________________ New Yorkers for Fair Use - because it's either fair use or useless.... From john.dempsey7 at verizon.net Tue Aug 7 23:09:29 2001 From: john.dempsey7 at verizon.net (John Dempsey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW: Request # 28551F7 Message-ID: Parloff's article, visible at http://www.geocities.com/asdf20000825/free_dmitry_roger_parloff.htm, inspired me to request the publisher to: "Please help me send Mr. Parloff to China where he can file down intellectual freedom in the name of commerce and get paid handsomely by the party elite." And, thank God, my request has been "completed"! Yes, soon he'll chime in from Beijing! http://www.tightlink2.net/XSupport?cid=4190&w=1974379245&tlid=gifs@oz.net&re sponder=XDetail John -----Original Message----- From: cs@inside.com [mailto:cs@inside.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:55 AM To: gifs@oz.net Subject: Request # 28551F7 RE: Parloff Tracking # 28551F7 Status: Closed Dear Customer, Thank you for your inquiry regarding: Parloff. We have been working on your request and believe it has been completed. Please visit our web site at: http://www.tightlink2.net/XSupport?cid=4190&w=1974379245&tlid=gifs@oz.net&re sponder=XDetail to view your Service Request # 28551F7. If you find that you need further information on this inquiry, please feel free to add another comment to the request through our web site. Have a great day! Customer Service at Inside.com http://www.inside.com From david.haworth at altavista.net Tue Aug 7 23:22:40 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Real eBook piracy vs. imagined piracy In-Reply-To: <003701c11f76$55c10680$6501a8c0@tiac.net>; from rms@privacyfoundation.org on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 03:22:39PM -0400 References: <009b01c11f6f$ef6fb170$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> <003701c11f76$55c10680$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20010808082240.B4060@3soft.de> On Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 03:22:39PM -0400, Richard M. Smith wrote: > The lawsuit seems to turn on the simple question: Does the definition of > a book encompass eBooks? For some reason, the publishing industry seems > to be very quiet about this lawsuit in stark contrast to the AAP's press > release cheering on the DOJ for arresting Dmitry. That's interesting. If Random House loses, they have to withdraw all their eBooks pending permission from the authors. But if Random House wins, there's a court precedent that eBook == book. Which could be used in further cases when the eBook technology denies you activities that are expected with normal books. Another interesting thing is that Random House are sueing Rosetta. But Rosatta have acted in good faith by obtaining permission from the authors of these books for the new editions. They ought to be sueing the authors of the books... -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From mlc67 at columbia.edu Tue Aug 7 23:25:00 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW: Request # 28551F7 In-Reply-To: ; from john.dempsey7@verizon.net on Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 02:09:29AM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010808022500.A25791@fir> There is no need to resort to such juvenile namecalling when we are *right* on the substantive issues and have plenty of well-founded and logical arguments to make on our behalf. The sort of thing you sent only makes us look like the kind of immature fools that Adobe, DOJ, and friends would only love to paint us as. The MPAA introduced as evidence some of the nastygrams they got regarding the 2600 case in order to try to show that the defendants were a bunch of morons. Remember: we're in a war for public opinion. Anything we say can, and will, be used against us in the media--the only court that matters anymore. Do be careful. mike On Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 02:09:29AM -0400, John Dempsey wrote: > Parloff's article, visible at > http://www.geocities.com/asdf20000825/free_dmitry_roger_parloff.htm, > inspired me to request the publisher to: > > "Please help me send Mr. Parloff to China where he can file down > intellectual freedom in the name of commerce and get paid handsomely by the > party elite." > > And, thank God, my request has been "completed"! Yes, soon he'll chime in > from Beijing! > -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // current location: berkeley, ca, us // ph: +1 (646) 382-7220 // FREE DMITRY! See http://freesklyarov.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010808/b585a928/attachment.pgp From david.haworth at altavista.net Tue Aug 7 23:34:14 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: <3B70A25B.9EFB7636@Realmeasures.dyndns.org>; from seth.johnson@Realmeasures.dyndns.org on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 10:22:19PM -0400 References: <20010730085821.A29454@lemuria.org> <20010807145711.E2309@bonsai.home.renfro.org> <3B70A25B.9EFB7636@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20010808083414.A4104@3soft.de> > ''Restricted use media'' I like this one. In fact, I like it so much that I used it in my e-mail to Pat Schroeder (http://zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/2001-July/002332.html) To be honest though, I didn't put it forward as a suggestion. But I still find it rolls off the tongue better than the rest. -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From ca2027001 at sneakemail.com Tue Aug 7 19:50:43 2001 From: ca2027001 at sneakemail.com (ca2027001@sneakemail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Pro-Library/Book/Reading flier Message-ID: <134763561.997253462373.JavaMail.root@boots> Awesome flyer. May I suggest that you put a counter copyright [cc]/ copyleft /gnu or something similar to give permission to copy it. It is very good at covering all the prime points. I like it alot. Phillip K. From huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 00:12:12 2001 From: huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com (Huaiyu Zhu) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry released on $50K bail Message-ID: Jason Sheldon wrote: > Sklyarov wrote a program that allows people who purchase books in > digital form and use Adobe Systems Inc.'s eBook Reader to make and > transfer copies of the book -- legal under Russian law, but a > violation of the DMCA. > What ever happened to being innocent until proven guilty? It has yet to be determined what Sklyarov did was a violation of the DMCA! This is what we are up against - bad reporting! There are bigger problems than bad reporting. The DMCA itself makes a criminal out of someone who merely makes a tool that can be suspected to have the pontential to be used in unlawful ways. This reminds me of a Soviet joke: Dissident: You can't treat me like this! I'm merely a suspect. KGB Officer: The fact that you are sitting in this interrogation room proves that you are guilty. Those outside walking in the streets are suspects. Huaiyu Zhu From byoungvt at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 00:36:46 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Stallman Message-ID: <20010808073646.89648.qmail@web14509.mail.yahoo.com> Sorry if someone point this out: Damn He wrote this almost 25 years ago!!! http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html From jono at microshaft.org Wed Aug 8 00:38:19 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Press Coverage: Protests St. Louis Post-Dispatch 8.7.01 Message-ID: <20010808003819.L4361@networkcommand.com> Lexis-nexis uses CAPS... http://web.lexis-nexis.com/more/cahners-chicago/11407/7436943/7 HEADLINE: PICKETS PROTEST ARREST OF ACCUSED RUSSIAN HACKER; THEY SAY THE ACTION AT A LAS VEGAS CONVENTION VIOLATES FREE-SPEECH RIGHTS BYLINE: Peter Shinkle Of The Post-Dispatch GRAPHIC: PHOTO; Color Photo by ANDREW CUTRARO / POST-DISPATCH - Washington University student Nik Melchior, 20, of Festus http://web.lexis-nexis.com/more/cahners-chicago/11407/7436943/7 From crism at maden.org Wed Aug 8 02:05:34 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Stallman In-Reply-To: <20010808073646.89648.qmail@web14509.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010808020416.00ac7390@mail.maden.org> At 00:36 8-08-2001, brad young wrote: >Damn He wrote this almost 25 years ago!!! > >http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html Back in the good old days of 1996. (I think - it was first published in 1997, the copyright date is 1996, and 2096 would make it a nice round 100 years in the future. References date to 1996.) -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From byoungvt at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 02:54:40 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Stallman In-Reply-To: <20010808073646.89648.qmail@web14509.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010808095440.91576.qmail@web14503.mail.yahoo.com> Correction: Almost "5" years ago... --- brad young wrote: > > Sorry if someone point this out: > > Damn He wrote this almost 25 years ago!!! > > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From tom at lemuria.org Wed Aug 8 03:44:55 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ebook restrictions Message-ID: <20010808124455.A644@lemuria.org> I will be holding a speech on DeCSS at HAL2001 and I plan to skip ebooks shortly, comparing them to DVDs. can someone (offlist, since it doesn't help Dmitri much) summarize exactly WHAT possible restrictions ebooks offer? I know that you can not: - copy - lend - print - (read aloud) (*) (*) I'm only partially counting this, since it's actually a feature, when enabled. From vkatalov at elcomsoft.com Wed Aug 8 04:51:21 2001 From: vkatalov at elcomsoft.com (Vladimir Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ebook restrictions In-Reply-To: <20010808124455.A644@lemuria.org> References: <20010808124455.A644@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <6521567257.20010808155121@elcomsoft.com> Hello, > I will be holding a speech on DeCSS at HAL2001 and I plan to skip > ebooks shortly, comparing them to DVDs. can someone (offlist, since it > doesn't help Dmitri much) summarize exactly WHAT possible restrictions > ebooks offer? > > I know that you can not: > > - copy Please note that "copy" means not copying the book itself, but copying the selected text into the Clipboard. I'd say that this permission is extremely important, because when enabled, allows to use 3rd party text-to-speach software (if "read aloud" is not available -- see below). > - (read aloud) (*) > > (*) I'm only partially counting this, since it's actually a feature, > when enabled. Yes. However, that feature works (when enabled) under Windows 2000 only. Also, you've missed "give", which is almost the same as "lend", just forever. Btw, just for fun. I have a few Adobe eBooks installed on my computer -- some of them purchased at Barnes and Noble, and others are free (downloadable from Adobe site). Here are the permissions for (free!) book "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn": -- The publisher of [...] has given you the following permissions for Copy You may copy 10 text selections to the clipboard every 10 days Print You may print 10 pages every 10 days -- Same for "Dracula" and all other "free" books I've seen (except just "Alice in Wonderland"; but it was also restricted some time ago). Interestingly, that the publisher for both books ("Finn" and "Dracula") is "Glassbook Inc." (at least, as stated in "Info" window), but it seems that Glassbook has been purchased by Adobe recently (so "GlassBook Reader" became "Adobe Acrobat eBook Reader"). Please correct me if I'm wrong. For all books that are not free (from ones I have), *everything* is restricted -- no permission to copy/print/lend/give. And another issue. It seems that the only way to know what exactly is allowed (for particular ebook) is to purchase (or just download, if it is free) that book. I was not able to find any information about restrictions, until the book is opened in Acrobat eBook Reader. As far as I know (but that have to be confirmed), this is also a violation of Russian law: the seller should give *all* information about product/item (any one) features *prior* to purchase. Assuming that Adobe is selling some books themselves... Please continue yourself ;) /Vladimir vkatalov@elcomsoft.com From csm at MoonGroup.com Wed Aug 8 07:04:10 2001 From: csm at MoonGroup.com (Chuck Mead) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Rebels in Black Robes Recoil at Surveillance of Computers Message-ID: <20010808100410.F16352@stealth> This could, in time, become very relevant as background info. If Dmitry's defense fail and become a matter for appeal... the judges involved in the subject dispute may well hear the case. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/08/national/08COUR.html?todaysheadlines (membership is required to view the article but there is no cost associated with joining) -- Have U seen the dirty bird? | If the government doesn't trust the http://www.moongroup.com | people, why doesn't it dissolve them and Kernel 2.4.3-12 - i686 cpu | elect a new people? | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010808/8292536a/attachment.pgp From mw at themail.com Wed Aug 8 07:28:31 2001 From: mw at themail.com (mw@themail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Rebels in Black Robes Recoil at Surveillance of Computers Message-ID: <200108081027427.SM00361@mail.TheMail.com> ok, that, was cool. ****** Original Message ****** From: Chuck Mead Sent: Wed 08/08/2001 10:07 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Rebels in Black Robes Recoil at Surveillance of Computers This could, in time, become very relevant as background info. If > >Dmitry's defense fail and become a matter for appeal... the judges > >involved in the subject dispute may well hear the case. > > > >href="http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/08/national/08COUR.html?todaysheadlines" >target="_new">http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/08/national/08COUR.html?todaysheadlines > > > >(membership is required to view the article but there is no cost > >associated with joining) > > > >-- > >Have U seen the dirty bird? | If the government doesn't trust the > >target="_new">http://www.moongroup.com | people, why doesn't it >dissolve them and > >Kernel 2.4.3-12 - i686 cpu | elect a new people? > > | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > >Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) > >Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org > > > >iEYEARECAAYFAjtxRtoACgkQv6Gjsf2pQ0p43wCgqXZdYjmqdIkfDHe9S67IWxEw > >rvcAoIb5EeIg5ZcEescyyAvk4rxsUUSV > >=yTEK > >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >. __________________________________________________________________ TheMail.com - Full featured premium email you can count on. Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ From erc at pobox.com Wed Aug 8 07:42:14 2001 From: erc at pobox.com (Ed Carp) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Rebels in Black Robes Recoil at Surveillance of Computers In-Reply-To: <20010808100410.F16352@stealth> Message-ID: <000401c12018$50941330$0ac9a8c0@khijol.org> > This could, in time, become very relevant as background info. If > Dmitry's defense fail and become a matter for appeal... the judges > involved in the subject dispute may well hear the case. > > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/08/national/08COUR.html?todaysheadlines > > (membership is required to view the article but there is no cost > associated with joining) Also check out http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/08/08/1253229&mode=thread for the discussion... -- Ed Carp, N7EKG - erc@pobox.com - 214/986-5870 (cell phone) - http://www.pobox.com/~erc Is your web site data driven? Are you swamped with work managing, updating, and deploying that data on to your web site? You need Escapade! Check us out at http://www.squishedmosquito.com/cgi-bin/esp?PAGE=esp_intro.html From jstyre at jstyre.com Wed Aug 8 08:51:39 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Rebels in Black Robes Recoil at Surveillance of Computers In-Reply-To: <000401c12018$50941330$0ac9a8c0@khijol.org> References: <20010808100410.F16352@stealth> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010808084715.00ba2f08@earthlink.net> If anyone cares, this is the latest development in a story which we at The Censorware Project broke in April 1998, before the legitimate press ever heard of it. Federal Courts Use Censorware; Free Speech Advocates Object http://censorware.net/reports/courtcen.html Protecting Judges Against Liza Minnelli http://censorware.net/reports/liza.html At 09:42 AM 8/8/2001 -0500, Ed Carp wrote: > > This could, in time, become very relevant as background info. If > > Dmitry's defense fail and become a matter for appeal... the judges > > involved in the subject dispute may well hear the case. > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/08/national/08COUR.html?todaysheadlines > > > > (membership is required to view the article but there is no cost > > associated with joining) > >Also check out >http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/08/08/1253229&mode=thread for the >discussion... >-- -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From crism at maden.org Wed Aug 8 08:56:45 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] PRESS RELEASE: Libertarians Call for Dmitry Sklyarov's Release Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010808085615.00adbbd0@mail.maden.org> Libertarian Party of San Francisco Media Release LIBERTARIANS CALL FOR DMITRY SKLYAROV'S RELEASE 8 August 2001 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Christopher R. Maden E-mail: crism@maden.org Telephone: +1.415.845.8202 San Francisco, August 8, 2001 - The Libertarian Party of San Francisco joined the Electronic Frontier Foundation and Adobe Systems Inc. in calling for the end of criminal proceedings against Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov. Sklyarov was arrested in Las Vegas on July 16 for violating the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), based on a complaint filed by Adobe. Adobe has dropped the complaint and called for Sklyarov's release, but the US Attorney's Office is continuing the prosecution nonetheless. Sklyarov is currently free on $50,000 bail pending trial. "This case demonstrates the immediate dangers of big government," said Christopher Maden, a San Francisco Libertarian and professional ebook consultant. "When the government is permitted to pass restrictive, unconstitutional laws like the DMCA, it's natural, and even rational, for companies like Adobe to use them to their best advantage." "What we have here is a modern retelling of the Emperor's New Clothes. Unlike the Hans Christian Andersen fable, when the little Russian boy tells the world that the Emperor has no clothes, the Imperial Guard beheads the kid before anyone else can hear," said Robert Hansen, a Libertarian and cryptanalyst. He points out that public exposure is the best way to build secure computer systems; however, the DMCA discourages researchers from publishing their analyses, despite a research exemption in the law. "In order to protect these anemic security mechanisms, businesses and governments will rely on the brute power of the courts to keep those who understand from sharing their knowledge." Maden called Adobe's tactics "bullying by government proxy," saying, "Adobe knew that a civil action was more appropriate, but as their general counsel told National Public Radio with a laugh, 'Honestly, we didn't think the likelihood was terribly high of getting any money out of a Russian company' - so they put a man in jail. The effort backfired and they dropped the complaint, but the Department of Justice wants to show it's tough on 'cybercrime,' and who better to demonstrate on than a scary 'Russian hacker'?" Sklyarov is a 26-year old Ph.D. candidate at the prestigious Bauman Moscow State Technical University. He is married with two children, a two-and-a-half-year-old son and a three-month-old daughter. He is charged with "trafficking in forbidden technology," as Maden put it in an article in the LPSF's newsletter, for creating the algorithms in Elcom's Advanced eBook Processor. Maden wrote, "There are several important reasons to set him free: "1) He is charged with trafficking in forbidden technology. He did not sell the program; his employer did. Although three ElcomSoft employees were at the conference, including the president, it was Sklyarov who was arrested. It seems obvious that an example is being made of him. "2) The DMCA specifically allows for narrow fair use exemptions from the civil and criminal violations it defines. AEBPR will only unlock a book legitimately purchased by the user; it can not be used to steal others' books. It is thus probable that the program does not even violate the law. "3) The DMCA is a very bad law. It has a demonstrably chilling effect on speech... AEBPR is a tool with legitimate and illegal uses, like a lockpick, a crowbar, a car, and a gun. Outlawing the tool does not help." Copyrights were created to encourage authors to publish their work. The legal doctrine of "fair use" says that, copyright notwithstanding, freedom of speech gives people the right to use copyrighted work in parody, satire, and criticism. The DMCA lets publishers take those rights away with technology, and outlaws other technology that would restore those rights. "Now we have the ironic situation of a Russian martyr to freedom trapped in America, thousands of miles from his family, for helping people to read," said Maden. About LPSF: The Libertarian Party of San Francisco (www.lpsf.org) is the local affiliate of the Libertarian Party (www.lp.org), the largest "third party" in the United States. Libertarians believe in personal freedom, in both social and economic spheres, and in minimal government to protect those freedoms. - end - # # # From owlswan at eff.org Wed Aug 8 10:06:02 2001 From: owlswan at eff.org (Henry Schwan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ebook restrictions In-Reply-To: <6521567257.20010808155121@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: Interesting. Maybe someone should file suit against Adobe in Russia. On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Vladimir Katalov wrote: > And another issue. It seems that the only way to know what exactly is > allowed (for particular ebook) is to purchase (or just download, if it > is free) that book. I was not able to find any information about > restrictions, until the book is opened in Acrobat eBook Reader. As far > as I know (but that have to be confirmed), this is also a violation of > Russian law: the seller should give *all* information about > product/item (any one) features *prior* to purchase. Assuming that Adobe > is selling some books themselves... Please continue yourself ;) > > /Vladimir > vkatalov@elcomsoft.com > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Regards, Henry Schwan Paralegal Electronic Frontier Foundation (415)436-9333 x114 (415)436-9333 (fax) owlswan@eff.org From warthawg at ecpi.com Wed Aug 8 10:19:19 2001 From: warthawg at ecpi.com (Joe Barr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ebook restrictions In-Reply-To: References: <6521567257.20010808155121@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: <20010808121919.4eeab3da.warthawg@ecpi.com> Well, filing suit against Adobe is not a bad idea, but having the KGB arrest and jail employees would be a more appropriate response. That's probably not legal in Russia, though. Only here in the land of the free. On Wed, 8 Aug 2001 10:06:02 -0700 (PDT) Henry Schwan wrote: > Interesting. Maybe someone should file suit against Adobe in Russia. > > On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Vladimir Katalov wrote: > > > And another issue. It seems that the only way to know what exactly is > > allowed (for particular ebook) is to purchase (or just download, if it > > is free) that book. I was not able to find any information about > > restrictions, until the book is opened in Acrobat eBook Reader. As far > > as I know (but that have to be confirmed), this is also a violation of > > Russian law: the seller should give *all* information about > > product/item (any one) features *prior* to purchase. Assuming that Adobe > > is selling some books themselves... Please continue yourself ;) > > > > /Vladimir > > vkatalov@elcomsoft.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > -- > Regards, > > Henry Schwan > Paralegal > Electronic Frontier Foundation > (415)436-9333 x114 > (415)436-9333 (fax) > owlswan@eff.org > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- #=============================================# # We do not execute retarded people in Texas. # # We make them governor. # #=============================================# From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 11:27:49 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] PRESS RELEASE: Libertarians Call for Dmitry Sklyarov's Release In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010808085615.00adbbd0@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <20010808182749.2120.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com> PENMANSHIP AND MARKSMANSHIP TO BOOT!!! this is a bullseye shot, into the DMCA, on behalf of dmitry and the american people! YES the DMCA is unconstitutional! YES the DMCA is a subsidy to american corporations! YES the DMCA is being used to bully, coerce, and intimidate! YES the DMCA truncates and suppresses speech! if maden et al reload, frewing et al will be prosecuting a case with a statute as full of holes as our american flag at fort mchenry! --- "Christopher R. Maden" wrote: > Libertarian Party of San Francisco Media Release > > LIBERTARIANS CALL FOR DMITRY SKLYAROV'S RELEASE > > 8 August 2001 > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > Contact: Christopher R. Maden > E-mail: crism@maden.org > Telephone: +1.415.845.8202 > > San Francisco, August 8, 2001 - The Libertarian > Party of San Francisco > joined the Electronic Frontier Foundation and Adobe > Systems Inc. in calling > for the end of criminal proceedings against Russian > programmer Dmitry Sklyarov. > >"When the government is permitted to pass restrictive, >unconstitutional laws like the DMCA, it's natural, and >even rational, for companies like Adobe to use them to >their best advantage." > > ... > > Maden called Adobe's tactics "bullying by government > proxy," saying, "Adobe knew that a civil action was > more appropriate, but as their general counsel told > National Public Radio with a laugh, 'Honestly, we > didn't think the likelihood was terribly high of > getting any money out of a Russian company' > - so they put a man in jail. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From byoungvt at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 11:46:53 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Someone wnt to respond... Message-ID: <20010808184653.87201.qmail@web14509.mail.yahoo.com> Found at yahoo adbe msg board Slashdot *the* technical hangout? by: sigh_more_trolls (31/M) 08/08/01 11:11 am Msg: 17223 of 17229 I disagree strongly with your statement that Slashdot is "the hangout for *the* tech crowd". Slashdot is more the hangout for a *certain self-selected segment* of the tech crowd -- plus a fair number of tech-crowd wannabees. For every fanatical Slashdot reader, I know just as many creative, intelligent, highly technical people who laugh at what they read there. For any given topic, you've got a healthy display of irrational technical bigotry, unfounded speculation and inaccurate rumors (and multiple levels of people taking those rumors/speculation as if they were the gospel truth and adding on their own nugget of wisdom; a real-world game of telephone!), and script kiddies repeating the opinion du jour they read somewhere upthread, hoping that properly mouthing the lingo will show that they deserve to be part of the 3L33T HAX0R crowd, too. This is not to deny that there aren't occasionally interesting, useful, or thoughful things posted on Slashdot. But on the whole, it's the "cool table" for people who never got to sit at the "cool table" in high school. It's the groupthink of the Slashdot crowd that annoys me most of all: the supreme arrogance that THEIR way is the ONE TRUE way, that any right-thinking person will instantly see the truth and justice and innate righteousness of their arguments. (Everyone on Slashdot agrees with me -- and if you don't, you must not be enough of a hardcore techie!) "The tech crowd" doesn't think as one united bloc: plenty of us don't see every problem waiting to be solved as a Linux-shaped hole, don't find Eric S. Raymond to be a particularly eloquent or convincing spokesman for anything, don't think "User Friendly" is the greatest comic strip ever -- and don't take great stock in the things we find on Slashdot. Posted as a reply to: Msg 17216 by byoungvt From vadim at xcf.berkeley.edu Wed Aug 8 12:24:49 2001 From: vadim at xcf.berkeley.edu (Vadim Kogan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Meeting in Berkeley Message-ID: <20010808122449.J32686@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> There will be a get-toghether/planning/etc. meeting in Berkeley on Saturday, Aug 11th. Location: Wozniak Lounge (enter from 4th floor patio) Soda Hall (big green building) UC Berkeley Campus Date: Saturday, August 11th, 1pm - 9pm We don't expect everybody to make it there by 1pm, but the earlier we start, the better chance we have of finishing BEFORE 3:30am :-) Although there won't be any major sign-making going on. Directions: Find a map, find the big green spot where it says UC Berkeley Campus. Soda Hall is on the north side of it, at the intersection of Hearst and Le Roy Ave. If you're driving up hearst, you'll see Soda Hall on your left side. It is a relatively big green building. If you find the last meeting announcement, you'll see the ascii picture, which I'm not going to make again now. Basically, there are 2 entrances, since Hearst is slanted: one on the 3rd floor and one on the 4th floor. If you face an entrance on the 4th floor and go to your right, you'll discover a patio right around the corner of the building. If you go there you'll see an open door and bunch of people inside. Those people are the ones you want to be with. We will have signs posted around the building with pointers. We will also put some sort of directions on the web site (sf.freesklyarov.org). Vadim. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010808/2043a16e/attachment.pgp From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Wed Aug 8 12:27:31 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ebook restrictions In-Reply-To: <20010808124455.A644@lemuria.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Tom wrote: > I know that you can not: > > - copy > - lend > - print I'd add: resell; move from one physical location (computer) to another; and cut and paste. You might also want to bring up the newly announced time-limited books: for these you can not even read them beyond a certain length of time. -S From jono at microshaft.org Wed Aug 8 12:52:33 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Press Coverage: Are 'white hat' hackers under seige? Message-ID: <20010808125233.C9061@networkcommand.com> Are 'white hat' hackers under seige? http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20010808/tc/are_white_hat_hackers_under_seige__1.html Columnist Robert Vamosi argues that Russian hacker Dmitry Sklyarov's detainment is a strike against white hat hackers who non-maliciously expose security holes. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20010808/tc/are_white_hat_hackers_under_seige__1.html From freeds at wyrdwright.com Wed Aug 8 13:57:43 2001 From: freeds at wyrdwright.com (Barrington King) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Pamphlet Message-ID: Thanks to everyone who helped out with the PDF of the pamphlet. I've posted the versions at http://www.wyrdwright.com/sklyarov BK From admin at seattle-chat.com Wed Aug 8 14:13:56 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another Article mentioning the DMCA at CNN In-Reply-To: Message-ID: http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/08/08/cd.copy.protection.reut/index.html From jaed at jaedworks.com Wed Aug 8 14:13:59 2001 From: jaed at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ebook restrictions In-Reply-To: <20010808124455.A644@lemuria.org> Message-ID: At 3:44 AM -0700 8/8/2001, Tom wrote: >I will be holding a speech on DeCSS at HAL2001 and I plan to skip >ebooks shortly, comparing them to DVDs. Semantic quibble: if you're talking specifically about the Adobe restricted-use eBook format, might be best to be as specific as possible to avoid confusion with electronic books generally. Open-format ebooks (such as those currently making money for Baen Books, available at in HTML, RTF, and other formats) are useful to the consumer and money-making for the publisher, require no bizarre legal constructions outlawing examination of them, require no $$$ technical "solutions" to lock out fair use, and should not be confused with the Adobe eBook format, nor should the many drawbacks of that format be imputed to all ebooks. Part of our point when discussing the DMCA is, or should be, that it is not needed in order to bring ebooks to the market in ways that make money for the publishers. -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed@jaedworks.com http://www.jaedworks.com From mw at themail.com Wed Aug 8 16:18:14 2001 From: mw at themail.com (mw@themail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA question of the day Message-ID: <200108081917902.SM00361@mail.TheMail.com> ok, here is the dmca question of the day: Re:section 1201 and providing/distributing a device/product... With regards to the SDMI case, the right to present their paper on digital music copy protection security was "prohibited" by threat of the DMCA, correct? (that's not the question of the day) Here's the question of the day: If the "secret" or "privileged" information (unfortunately there are such phrases) was put into a pdf format, wouldn't Adobe be the responsible party in the distribution of the device/product? I only ask, because, without Adobe's Acrobat reader, the device/product, "secret" information would not be accessed. If I wrote a book with "restricted" content (another sad phrase), would I be responsible for distribution of the content OR would the book's publisher be responsible. I am clearly the author, however, it is the publisher/publishing house which distributes or provides access to my works. comments? -aicra __________________________________________________________________ TheMail.com - Full featured premium email you can count on. Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ From ben at kalifornia.com Wed Aug 8 16:20:52 2001 From: ben at kalifornia.com (Ben Ford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Rebels in Black Robes Recoil at Surveillance of Computers References: <20010808100410.F16352@stealth> Message-ID: <3B71C954.6010608@kalifornia.com> Chuck Mead wrote: >This could, in time, become very relevant as background info. If >Dmitry's defense fail and become a matter for appeal... the judges >involved in the subject dispute may well hear the case. > >http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/08/national/08COUR.html?todaysheadlines > >(membership is required to view the article but there is no cost >associated with joining) > User / pass == cyber_nyt / cyber_nyt No, they're not mine either ;) -b -- Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are going to burn in Hell forever. From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Aug 8 16:31:57 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Rebels in Black Robes Recoil at Surveillance of Computers In-Reply-To: <3B71C954.6010608@kalifornia.com> References: <20010808100410.F16352@stealth> <3B71C954.6010608@kalifornia.com> Message-ID: <874rriuo0i.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "BF" == Ben Ford writes: >> (membership is required to view the article but there is no >> cost associated with joining) >> BF> User / pass == cyber_nyt / cyber_nyt BF> No, they're not mine either ;) User / pass == judgepunk / judgepunk OK, I'm not sure they actually work, but it'd be pretty appropriate. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From ed at hintz.org Wed Aug 8 16:44:02 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Rebels in Black Robes Recoil at Surveillance of Computers Message-ID: <200108082344.f78Ni2c08634@phil.hintz.org> On 8/8/01 4:31 PM, klepht@eleutheria.org thus spake: >OK, I'm not sure they actually work, but it'd be pretty appropriate. Speaking of work/!work arguments, anybody know if partners.nytimes.com still works? I understand it used to but perhaps it became too widely known... I long ago succumbed to the cookie... Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From nick at zork.net Wed Aug 8 16:53:25 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Rebels in Black Robes Recoil at Surveillance of Computers In-Reply-To: <3B71C954.6010608@kalifornia.com>; from ben@kalifornia.com on Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 04:20:52PM -0700 References: <20010808100410.F16352@stealth> <3B71C954.6010608@kalifornia.com> Message-ID: <20010808165325.I13546@zork.net> Begin Ben Ford quotation: > Chuck Mead wrote: > > >This could, in time, become very relevant as background info. If > >Dmitry's defense fail and become a matter for appeal... the judges > >involved in the subject dispute may well hear the case. > > > >http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/08/national/08COUR.html?todaysheadlines > > > >(membership is required to view the article but there is no cost > >associated with joining) > > > > User / pass == cyber_nyt / cyber_nyt > > No, they're not mine either ;) Or replace "www" with "archive" or "archives". -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Wed Aug 8 18:10:38 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FBI chief Mueller lied to Senate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: According to The Register, FBI Chief Mueller lied to the Senate about his knowledge of Key Stroke logging devices. http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/20894.html James S. Huggins From kyhwana at world-net.co.nz Wed Aug 8 19:05:43 2001 From: kyhwana at world-net.co.nz (Daniel Richards) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Things you can't do with ebooks Message-ID: <3B7298B7.31637.3DE79FF@localhost> I apologise if this has already been brung up before (lots of mail!) but is there a list of things you can't do with ebooks somewhere? Such as: You can't read an ebook on the toilet! (Unless you pay again for the 2nd copy on the laptop/terminal in the bathroom) You can't read an ebook while in the bath. You can't read an ebook while sitting on the beach (Again, unless you paid twice for the same book, one for a desktop and again for the laptop) The main difference is that you need a laptop/palm to read ebooks anywhere where you can read normal books, except that batteries tend to need recharging. you also need to pay twice (Or more!) Teachers couldn't read ebooks out aloud, unless they have a laptop/desktop (Again, the paying more than once, since there may be more than one class) Then there are these new "you get to read this ebook for 10 hours and then you pay again" I think we need a seperate word for ebooks that are "locked up" (media?) such as Adobe and Microsoft's ebook's. So one would know when someone is talking about the above or an ebook in HTML/Text/etc. Just what is an ebook? Is an ebook only an electronic version of a book that has been published in paper form? If there is a (non-biased) FAQ anywhere, could they please post it to the list? http://www.freesklyarov.org - Free Dmitry! PGP Pub key: http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/DanielRPubKey.asc Fingerprint: 416D 4027 D635 AF51 F2BF 60DF 4D94 F7A0 9893 2848 From paul at paultopia.net Wed Aug 8 19:08:05 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FOIA request to the DOJ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010808200248.03262220@mail.paultopia.net> I've sent the following FOIA request to DOJ. Lets see what their response is. (Ignore #s 3 and 4 -- they're not directly Dmitry related, but I'd kinda like to know what their plan is for the upcoming FTAA protests, which of course are related to global corporate power, which is of course what got Dmitry locked up in the first place.) -Paul FOIA/PA Mail Referral Unit Justice Management Division, U.S. Department of Justice 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20530-0001 FOIA REQUEST AND PARTIAL REQUEST FOR EXPEDITED REVIEW Dear FOI Officer: Pursuant to the federal Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S.C. s. 552, I request access to and copies of 1) All records pertaining to all criminal prosecutions and/or civil enforcement actions where the U.S. Government or any branch or employee thereof is the plaintiff, where civil or criminal actions were brought or file under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, or under any other provision of the Copyright Act, provided such suit or prosecution was initiated or had not been subject to a final judgment or settlement on any day after January 1, 1997. 2) All records of investigation or arrest into any civil or criminal action under the Copyright Act, including the Digital Millennium Copyright act, that did not result in filing of suit or criminal prosecution, if such investigation was not completed before January 1, 1997. 3) All records of any federal investigation, arrest, surveillance, intelligence, or other law enforcement action related to upcoming protests or other political activity in Washington D.C. in September and October 2001 relating to economic globalization, "free trade" or international treaties and organizations relating to international commerce. 4) All records of any federal planning or local planning, were records are in the possession of the Justice Department, to segregate portions of Washington D.C., create "no-protest zones" or similar areas where political activity is forbidden or regulated beyond the norm, or in any other fashion to increase or change law enforcement activity and regulate political activity in Washington, D.C. in September and October, 2001. 5) Any listing currently existing of federal arrest and/or prosecutions following the filing of a criminal complaint, report, or other official method of seeking federal criminal prosecution after January 1, 1991, providing that a) such complaint, report, etc. was filed by a corporation or agent of a corporation acting at the behest of a corporation, b) the crime arrested and/or prosecuted for had as an element or affirmative defense impact on business profits or money-making motive for either the accused or the victim, and c) criminal investigation was only begun when such complaint, report, etc. was filed. 6) All records of any criminal enforcement action of any kind taken against foreign nationals not resident in the U.S., for acts in their nations of citizenship not against the law in such nations but alleged to have negative economic effects on individuals or corporations in the United States, including without limitation the prosecution of Russian Dmitry Sklyarov, since January 1, 1991. Please waive any applicable fees. Release of the information is in the public interest because it will contribute significantly to public understanding of government operations and activities. As to (1) and (2), I am an attorney and author who intends to compile the results of this request and publish them to assist the public in understanding the current scope and effect of copyright law and the prosecutions thereunder. To this end, I will prepare and disclose this information in an understandable format to the press. I also intend to author periodical articles and/or books analyzing the data requested, and disseminate the information over the internet.. As to (3) and (4), I will use the results of this request to educate the public about the practices of the FBI and other agencies within the Justice Department with regard to preserving the balance between permitting peaceful protest and preserving public safety in the nation's capital, using similar means of publication. As to (5), I will use the results of this request to educate the public as to corporate influence on the criminal justice system, using similar means of publication. As to (6), I will use the results of this request to educate the public as to the practices of the federal government in prosecuting foreign nationals for activities legal in their nations to preserve U.S. economic interests, using similar means of publication. If my request is denied in whole or part, I ask that you justify all deletions by reference to specific exemptions of the act. I will also expect you to release all segregable portions of otherwise exempt material. I, of course, reserve the right to appeal your decision to withhold any information or to deny a waiver of fees. As this information is of timely value, I would appreciate your communicating with me by telephone, rather than by mail, if you have questions regarding this request. I look forward to your reply within 20 business days, as the statute requires. If the fee wavier is denied, I am willing to pay up to $30.00 please contact me before incurring any charges beyond that. In order to speed review as much as possible, please prioritize the requests in the following order: (3), (4), (1), (2), (6), (5). Please provide expedited review, at least as to (3) and (4) because delayed disclosure could threaten physical safety of protestors or other citizens unable to anticipate the plans of law enforcement and police when choosing their behavior in upcoming protests. I plan to use this information at least in part to inform potential protestors about the dangers to their safety from law enforcement action at the upcoming FTAA protests in September and October and also inform them of the plans the city of Washington, D.C., and federal law enforcement agencies have in order to maintain the peace and restrict their movements at that time. By my signature, I certify that the reasons given in this paragraph are true and correct to the best of my knowledge at this time. Thank you for your assistance. Very truly yours, Paul A. Gowder -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From byoungvt at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 19:53:14 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What does the e in eBook mean??? Message-ID: <20010809025314.24533.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> enslaved enthralled enchained... From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Wed Aug 8 21:24:31 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] On About.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: http://civilliberty.about.com/library/weekly/aa072301a.htm James S. Huggins From paul at paultopia.net Wed Aug 8 21:26:08 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What does the e in eBook mean??? In-Reply-To: <20010809025314.24533.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010808222550.0325b5a0@mail.paultopia.net> uh... encrypted? =) -P >enslaved >enthralled >enchained... > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From paul at paultopia.net Wed Aug 8 21:44:48 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Human rights and the DMCA... Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010808223938.0325a2a0@mail.paultopia.net> Here's some stuff to reference in flyers, etc, from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html (note especially articles 19 and 27.1): Article 12. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks. Article 13. (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state. (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country. Article 15. (1) Everyone has the right to a nationality. (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality. Article 19. Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers. Article 20. (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association. Article 21. (3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures. Article 22. Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality. Article 23. (1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment. Article 27. (1) Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits. (2) Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author. -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From vkatalov at elcomsoft.com Thu Aug 9 01:12:35 2001 From: vkatalov at elcomsoft.com (Vladimir Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FBI chief Mueller lied to Senate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <985444873.20010809121235@elcomsoft.com> Hello, > According to The Register, FBI Chief Mueller lied to the Senate about his > knowledge of Key Stroke logging devices. > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/20894.html More on that (from Security Wire Digest, http://infosecuritymag.bellevue.com): > *JUDGE ORDERS FBI TO DISCLOSE KEYSTROKE CAPTURE METHOD > > A federal judge in New Jersey ordered the FBI to disclose how it > logged the keystrokes of Nicodemo "Little Nicky" Scarfo, who's > charged with running illegal gambling and loan-sharking operations > for the Gambino crime family. Defense lawyers challenged the FBI's > use of a keystroke logger to obtain the password and encryption keys > used by the Scarfo on his office PC, saying a keystroke logger falls > outside the scope of a standard search warrant. Judge Nicholas > Politan ordered the FBI to produce details on the keystroke logging > technique, saying he needed more information to determine the > legality of the process. The FBI has until Aug. 31 to comply with > the order. /Vladimir vkatalov@elcomsoft.com From vkatalov at elcomsoft.com Thu Aug 9 01:24:59 2001 From: vkatalov at elcomsoft.com (Vladimir Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Users Ask Software Vendors To Stand Behind Security In-Reply-To: <985444873.20010809121235@elcomsoft.com> References: <985444873.20010809121235@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: <1666188917.20010809122459@elcomsoft.com> From pmasloch at earthlink.net Thu Aug 9 05:22:51 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FOIA request to the DOJ In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010808200248.03262220@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: I believe that you have to make the freedom of information act requests directly to the agencies. CIA and NSA have a 'freedom of information act' office where you can make this requests. I'm not sure about FBI. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org I've sent the following FOIA request to DOJ. Lets see what their response is. (Ignore #s 3 and 4 -- they're not directly Dmitry related, but I'd kinda like to know what their plan is for the upcoming FTAA protests, which of course are related to global corporate power, which is of course what got Dmitry locked up in the first place.) -Paul FOIA/PA Mail Referral Unit Justice Management Division, U.S. Department of Justice 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20530-0001 FOIA REQUEST AND PARTIAL REQUEST FOR EXPEDITED REVIEW Dear FOI Officer: Pursuant to the federal Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S.C. s. 552, I request access to and copies of 1) All records pertaining to all criminal prosecutions and/or civil enforcement actions where the U.S. Government or any branch or employee thereof is the plaintiff, where civil or criminal actions were brought or file under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, or under any other provision of the Copyright Act, provided such suit or prosecution was initiated or had not been subject to a final judgment or settlement on any day after January 1, 1997. 2) All records of investigation or arrest into any civil or criminal action under the Copyright Act, including the Digital Millennium Copyright act, that did not result in filing of suit or criminal prosecution, if such investigation was not completed before January 1, 1997. 3) All records of any federal investigation, arrest, surveillance, intelligence, or other law enforcement action related to upcoming protests or other political activity in Washington D.C. in September and October 2001 relating to economic globalization, "free trade" or international treaties and organizations relating to international commerce. 4) All records of any federal planning or local planning, were records are in the possession of the Justice Department, to segregate portions of Washington D.C., create "no-protest zones" or similar areas where political activity is forbidden or regulated beyond the norm, or in any other fashion to increase or change law enforcement activity and regulate political activity in Washington, D.C. in September and October, 2001. 5) Any listing currently existing of federal arrest and/or prosecutions following the filing of a criminal complaint, report, or other official method of seeking federal criminal prosecution after January 1, 1991, providing that a) such complaint, report, etc. was filed by a corporation or agent of a corporation acting at the behest of a corporation, b) the crime arrested and/or prosecuted for had as an element or affirmative defense impact on business profits or money-making motive for either the accused or the victim, and c) criminal investigation was only begun when such complaint, report, etc. was filed. 6) All records of any criminal enforcement action of any kind taken against foreign nationals not resident in the U.S., for acts in their nations of citizenship not against the law in such nations but alleged to have negative economic effects on individuals or corporations in the United States, including without limitation the prosecution of Russian Dmitry Sklyarov, since January 1, 1991. Please waive any applicable fees. Release of the information is in the public interest because it will contribute significantly to public understanding of government operations and activities. As to (1) and (2), I am an attorney and author who intends to compile the results of this request and publish them to assist the public in understanding the current scope and effect of copyright law and the prosecutions thereunder. To this end, I will prepare and disclose this information in an understandable format to the press. I also intend to author periodical articles and/or books analyzing the data requested, and disseminate the information over the internet.. As to (3) and (4), I will use the results of this request to educate the public about the practices of the FBI and other agencies within the Justice Department with regard to preserving the balance between permitting peaceful protest and preserving public safety in the nation's capital, using similar means of publication. As to (5), I will use the results of this request to educate the public as to corporate influence on the criminal justice system, using similar means of publication. As to (6), I will use the results of this request to educate the public as to the practices of the federal government in prosecuting foreign nationals for activities legal in their nations to preserve U.S. economic interests, using similar means of publication. If my request is denied in whole or part, I ask that you justify all deletions by reference to specific exemptions of the act. I will also expect you to release all segregable portions of otherwise exempt material. I, of course, reserve the right to appeal your decision to withhold any information or to deny a waiver of fees. As this information is of timely value, I would appreciate your communicating with me by telephone, rather than by mail, if you have questions regarding this request. I look forward to your reply within 20 business days, as the statute requires. If the fee wavier is denied, I am willing to pay up to $30.00 please contact me before incurring any charges beyond that. In order to speed review as much as possible, please prioritize the requests in the following order: (3), (4), (1), (2), (6), (5). Please provide expedited review, at least as to (3) and (4) because delayed disclosure could threaten physical safety of protestors or other citizens unable to anticipate the plans of law enforcement and police when choosing their behavior in upcoming protests. I plan to use this information at least in part to inform potential protestors about the dangers to their safety from law enforcement action at the upcoming FTAA protests in September and October and also inform them of the plans the city of Washington, D.C., and federal law enforcement agencies have in order to maintain the peace and restrict their movements at that time. By my signature, I certify that the reasons given in this paragraph are true and correct to the best of my knowledge at this time. Thank you for your assistance. Very truly yours, Paul A. Gowder -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From rknop at pobox.com Thu Aug 9 06:51:24 2001 From: rknop at pobox.com (Robert Knop) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Free book terminology (was Things you can't do with ebooks) In-Reply-To: <3B7298B7.31637.3DE79FF@localhost> Message-ID: > I think we need a seperate word for ebooks that are "locked up" > (media?) such as Adobe and Microsoft's ebook's. So one would > know when someone is talking about the above or an ebook in > HTML/Text/etc. How about a crippleBook? That refers back to "CrippleWare," the form of ShareWare which had key functionality disabled until you paid the licensing fee. Not really the same thing, since *here* you pay the licensing fee just to get the crippled version. But it does get the point across that you're getting something limited. -Rob From paul at paultopia.net Thu Aug 9 07:15:35 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FOIA request to the DOJ In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010808200248.03262220@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010809081347.03252ae0@mail.paultopia.net> FBI is a sub-agency of DOJ, DOJ is likely to be copied on any of the #3 and #4 things re: law enforcement in dc during protests, DOJ will be in charge of any copyright prosecutions etc.... But yea, I thought of that. I'm thinking about firing off a few more. Maybe to the D.C., police, directly to FBI as subset of DOJ (and also to criminal division and civil division), etc. etc. -Paul At 06:22 AM 8/9/01, Peter wrote: >I believe that you have to make the freedom of information act >requests >directly to the agencies. CIA and NSA have a 'freedom of information >act' >office where you can make this requests. I'm not sure about FBI. >Peter > > >Free Dmitry Sklyarov >Repeal the DMCA >---------------------------------------- >http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca >http://www.freesklyarov.org > > > >I've sent the following FOIA request to DOJ. Lets see what their >response >is. (Ignore #s 3 and 4 -- they're not directly Dmitry related, but >I'd >kinda like to know what their plan is for the upcoming FTAA protests, >which >of course are related to global corporate power, which is of course >what >got Dmitry locked up in the first place.) > > -Paul > > >FOIA/PA Mail Referral Unit >Justice Management Division, >U.S. Department of Justice >950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. >Washington, D.C. 20530-0001 > >FOIA REQUEST AND PARTIAL REQUEST FOR EXPEDITED REVIEW > >Dear FOI Officer: > >Pursuant to the federal Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S.C. s. 552, I >request access to and copies of > >1) All records pertaining to all criminal prosecutions and/or >civil >enforcement actions where the U.S. Government or any branch or >employee >thereof is the plaintiff, where civil or criminal actions were brought >or >file under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, or under any other >provision of the Copyright Act, provided such suit or prosecution was >initiated or had not been subject to a final judgment or settlement on >any >day after January 1, 1997. > >2) All records of investigation or arrest into any civil or >criminal >action under the Copyright Act, including the Digital Millennium >Copyright >act, that did not result in filing of suit or criminal prosecution, if >such >investigation was not completed before January 1, 1997. > >3) All records of any federal investigation, arrest, >surveillance, >intelligence, or other law enforcement action related to upcoming >protests >or other political activity in Washington D.C. in September and >October >2001 relating to economic globalization, "free trade" or international >treaties and organizations relating to international commerce. > >4) All records of any federal planning or local planning, were >records >are in the possession of the Justice Department, to segregate portions >of >Washington D.C., create "no-protest zones" or similar areas where >political >activity is forbidden or regulated beyond the norm, or in any other >fashion >to increase or change law enforcement activity and regulate political >activity in Washington, D.C. in September and October, 2001. > >5) Any listing currently existing of federal arrest and/or >prosecutions following the filing of a criminal complaint, report, or >other >official method of seeking federal criminal prosecution after January >1, >1991, providing that a) such complaint, report, etc. was filed by a >corporation or agent of a corporation acting at the behest of a >corporation, b) the crime arrested and/or prosecuted for had as an >element >or affirmative defense impact on business profits or money-making >motive >for either the accused or the victim, and c) criminal investigation >was >only begun when such complaint, report, etc. was filed. > >6) All records of any criminal enforcement action of any kind >taken >against foreign nationals not resident in the U.S., for acts in their >nations of citizenship not against the law in such nations but alleged >to >have negative economic effects on individuals or corporations in the >United >States, including without limitation the prosecution of Russian Dmitry >Sklyarov, since January 1, 1991. > >Please waive any applicable fees. Release of the information is in the >public interest because it will contribute significantly to public >understanding of government operations and activities. > >As to (1) and (2), I am an attorney and author who intends to compile >the >results of this request and publish them to assist the public in >understanding the current scope and effect of copyright law and the >prosecutions thereunder. To this end, I will prepare and disclose >this >information in an understandable format to the press. I also intend >to >author periodical articles and/or books analyzing the data requested, >and >disseminate the information over the internet.. > >As to (3) and (4), I will use the results of this request to educate >the >public about the practices of the FBI and other agencies within the >Justice >Department with regard to preserving the balance between permitting >peaceful protest and preserving public safety in the nation's capital, >using similar means of publication. > >As to (5), I will use the results of this request to educate the >public as >to corporate influence on the criminal justice system, using similar >means >of publication. > >As to (6), I will use the results of this request to educate the >public as >to the practices of the federal government in prosecuting foreign >nationals >for activities legal in their nations to preserve U.S. economic >interests, >using similar means of publication. > >If my request is denied in whole or part, I ask that you justify all >deletions by reference to specific exemptions of the act. I will also >expect you to release all segregable portions of otherwise exempt >material. I, of course, reserve the right to appeal your decision to >withhold any information or to deny a waiver of fees. > >As this information is of timely value, I would appreciate your >communicating with me by telephone, rather than by mail, if you have >questions regarding this request. > >I look forward to your reply within 20 business days, as the statute >requires. > >If the fee wavier is denied, I am willing to pay up to $30.00 please >contact me before incurring any charges beyond that. > >In order to speed review as much as possible, please prioritize the >requests in the following order: (3), (4), (1), (2), (6), (5). > >Please provide expedited review, at least as to (3) and (4) because >delayed >disclosure could threaten physical safety of protestors or other >citizens >unable to anticipate the plans of law enforcement and police when >choosing >their behavior in upcoming protests. I plan to use this information >at >least in part to inform potential protestors about the dangers to >their >safety from law enforcement action at the upcoming FTAA protests in >September and October and also inform them of the plans the city of >Washington, D.C., and federal law enforcement agencies have in order >to >maintain the peace and restrict their movements at that time. By my >signature, I certify that the reasons given in this paragraph are true >and >correct to the best of my knowledge at this time. > >Thank you for your assistance. > >Very truly yours, > > > > > >Paul A. Gowder > > >-- > -Paul Gowder > >"It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." > - Homer Simpson > > > >-- > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From pmasloch at earthlink.net Thu Aug 9 09:07:17 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] monitoring Message-ID: Why do i have this dump feeling that i know this "federal agency"? Arresting programmers and then monitoring what the Judge is doing. Interesting! "A group of senior West Coast judges, angry that their online activity is monitored by a federal agency here that administers the court system, have suggested the scrutiny may be illegal and for one week earlier this year disabled the monitoring system in protest." http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2803076,00.html Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org From csm at MoonGroup.com Thu Aug 9 09:34:52 2001 From: csm at MoonGroup.com (Chuck Mead) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An interesting quote... Message-ID: <20010809123452.E16352@stealth> "Is it true, then, that any right, plainly written in the Constitution, has been denied? I think not. Happily the human mind is so constituted, that no party can reach to the audacity of doing this. Think, if you can, of a single instance in which a plainly written provision of the Constitution has ever been denied. If, by the mere force of numbers, a majority should deprive a minority of any clearly written constitutional right, it might, in a moral point of view, justify revolution-certainly would, if such a right were a vital one." Abraham Lincoln, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1861 -- Have U seen the dirty bird? | I never vote for anyone. I always vote http://www.moongroup.com | against. -- W.C. Fields Kernel 2.4.3-12 - i686 cpu | | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010809/fba7ae3c/attachment.pgp From dmarti at zgp.org Thu Aug 9 09:51:26 2001 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Free book terminology (was Things you can't do with ebooks) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010809095126.E7071@zgp.org> begin Robert Knop quotation of Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 06:51:24AM -0700: > How about a crippleBook? That refers back to "CrippleWare," the form of > ShareWare which had key functionality disabled until you paid the > licensing fee. Not really the same thing, since *here* you pay the > licensing fee just to get the crippled version. But it does get the > point across that you're getting something limited. Can I just say that widespread use of this term would hurt outreach efforts to organizations of/for people with disabilities? Who would _need_ circumvention devices to read some e-books? -- Don Marti What do we want? Free Dmitry! When do we want it? Now! http://zgp.org/~dmarti Free Dmitry: http://eff.org/ dmarti@zgp.org Free the web, burn all GIFs: http://burnallgifs.org/ From ed at hintz.org Thu Aug 9 09:55:29 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fwd: SECURITY ADVISOR: Network protection commentary from InfoWorld.com, Thursday Message-ID: <200108091655.f79GtUc00951@phil.hintz.org> Infoworld has a daily security commentary/soapbox, todays subject may be of interest to a few folks on this list... ;-) ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- ======================================================== SECURITY ADVISOR InfoWorld.com ======================================================== Thursday, August 9, 2001 Network protection commentary by: P.J. Connolly Advertising Sponsor - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - FREE SECURITY GUIDE: Don't expose your company's deepest secrets. Get all the in-depth knowledge you need to secure your enterprise with NetIQ's FREE step-by-step security guide - "Selecting The Right Security Solution"- at: http://www.netiq.com/sponsor/default.asp?263 Read it now before it's too late. NetIQ's security solutions not only identify intruders, but ensure that threats don't ever become incidents. NetIQ. Making your world secure today. Making the world secure tomorrow. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - CRYPTO LAW MISGUIDED Posted at August 3, 2001 01:01 PM PST Pacific RUSSIAN DEVELOPER Dmitry Sklyarov is now a guest of the FBI, having been charged with violation of the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act). The feds and Adobe Systems are unhappy because Sklyarov reverse-engineered the encryption scheme used in Adobe's eBooks technology. This may be perfectly legal in Russia, but here it's a felony. If Sklyarov had just written a paper and put together some PowerPoint slides for a presentation, things would be a lot simpler. Can you say "First Amendment"? But press reports claim that Sklyarov came to a convention in Las Vegas with 500 demo copies of his decryption program. That's a problem -- 500 of anything is enough evidence to prove a distribution charge. Although the demo version will process only about a quarter of an eBook -- and his employer ElcomSoft is keeping the full version under wraps -- Sklyarov will get deported if he's lucky, and jail if he's not. If I were running Adobe, I'd have hired Sklyarov because he grasps encryption better than anyone at Adobe. The company chose instead to get heavy, hoping that nobody would notice the eBook scheme's shortcomings. This backfired when, faced with an ill-concealed rebellion among its own employees, Adobe management caved and is now calling for Sklyarov's release. This circus underscores a fundamental flaw in the DMCA: that any "reverse engineering" of an encryption scheme is illegal. It doesn't matter what your motive is; if you're not authorized by the owner to tinker, you're a criminal. This flies in the face of centuries of engineering progress that came about because someone made improvements to somebody else's work. It's time to put a provision into the DMCA that should have been in the original bill: one that allows for legitimate discussion and research. Send this column to your representatives and senators, because as the law stands right now, Thomas Edison would get life. A secure infrastructure for e-commerce cannot be created if the mere act of finding and publicizing holes in security schemes is a crime. A "reasonable behavior" test would have exonerated recent victims of the DMCA such as Princeton's Edward Felten, who with others entered the recording industry's contest to crack its latest "uncrackable" watermarking scheme. Yet he was threatened with a lawsuit this spring for succeeding and for publishing his results. It's not hard to identify malicious behavior; judges and juries do that every day. If e-commerce is going to succeed, it has to be secure; and if it's going to be secure, it has to be tested. I'd rather that testing take place at the hands of some mild-mannered academics scrambling for tenure than by some digital pirate less interested in getting rich than in listening to free music, or discrediting my business. P.J. Connolly (pj_connolly@infoworld.com) covers security for the Test Center. Get this column free via e-mail each week. Sign up at http://www.iwsubscribe.com/newsletters. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - MORE SECURITY ADVISOR For a complete archive of his InfoWorld columns visit http://www2.infoworld.com/cgi/component/columnarchive.wbs?column=swatch INFOWORLD OPINIONS Weekly commentary from the most trusted voices in IT at: http://www.infoworld.com/community/t_opinions.html To join, or start, a discussion on this or any IT-related topic, please visit our InfoWorld forums at http://forums.infoworld.com. Here you can interact and exchange ideas with InfoWorld staff and other readers. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - QUOTE OF THE DAY: "What we are doing now I compare to the government's 'Best of Breed' approach of the 1990s but with a little Viagra added in." --Mark Forman, director of IT and e-government within the Bush administration's Office of Management and Budget, explains to InfoWorld Senior Editor Jennifer Jones how the current fed-wide IT revamp enhances an earlier policy. http://iwsun4.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/08/03/010803hnforman.xml?080 9thse - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - SUBSCRIBE To subscribe to any of InfoWorld's e-mail newsletters, tell your friends and colleagues to go to: http://www.iwsubscribe.com/newsletters/ To subscribe to InfoWorld.com, or InfoWorld Print, or both, go to http://www.iwsubscribe.com UNSUBSCRIBE If you want to unsubscribe from InfoWorld's Newsletters, go to http://iwsubscribe.com/newsletters/unsubscribe/ CHANGE E-MAIL If you want to change the e-mail address where you are receiving InfoWorld newsletters, go to http://iwsubscribe.com/newsletters/adchange/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Must-Have Info for Can-Do Companies Even in the new economy, small and medium-sized companies are the little engines that can and do power the economy. And they could no sooner do without information technology, and the savvy to use it wisely and well, than the Fortune 500. If that sounds like you and your organization, InfoWorld's Small-Medium Business Report newsletter is your must-read weekly digest of technology and management stories you need to read. Subscribe now at http://www.iwsubscribe.com/newsletters/ Advertising Sponsor - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - FREE SECURITY GUIDE: Don't expose your company's deepest secrets. Get all the in-depth knowledge you need to secure your enterprise with NetIQ's FREE step-by-step security guide - "Selecting The Right Security Solution"- at: http://www.netiq.com/sponsor/default.asp?263 Read it now before it's too late. NetIQ's security solutions not only identify intruders, but ensure that threats don't ever become incidents. NetIQ. Making your world secure today. Making the world secure tomorrow. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Copyright 2001 InfoWorld Media Group Inc. ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jono at microshaft.org Thu Aug 9 09:56:48 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Free book terminology (was Things you can't do with ebooks) In-Reply-To: ; from rknop@pobox.com on Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 06:51:24AM -0700 References: <3B7298B7.31637.3DE79FF@localhost> Message-ID: <20010809095648.G10832@networkcommand.com> Pay-Per-View books...? On 09-Aug-2001, Robert Knop wrote: > > I think we need a seperate word for ebooks that are "locked up" > > (media?) such as Adobe and Microsoft's ebook's. So one would > > know when someone is talking about the above or an ebook in > > HTML/Text/etc. > > How about a crippleBook? That refers back to "CrippleWare," the form of > ShareWare which had key functionality disabled until you paid the > licensing fee. Not really the same thing, since *here* you pay the > licensing fee just to get the crippled version. But it does get the > point across that you're getting something limited. > > -Rob > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jono at microshaft.org Thu Aug 9 10:19:31 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov will not be charged in Russia Message-ID: <20010809101931.M10832@networkcommand.com> http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45966,00.html MOSCOW -- A Russian computer programmer accused of circumventing U.S. copyright protections on electronic-book software will not be prosecuted at home if U.S. authorities allow him to return, police said Thursday. I'll see your DMCA and raise you a First Amendment. http://www.anti-dmca.org From alex at 2600.COM Thu Aug 9 10:22:36 2001 From: alex at 2600.COM (Neon Samurai) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fwd: SECURITY ADVISOR: Network protection commentary from InfoWorld.com, Thursday In-Reply-To: <200108091655.f79GtUc00951@phil.hintz.org> Message-ID: Brian Livinston, also of Infoworld, wrote a small but well informed piece on Dmitry and the DMCA as well. It was in the printed version so I would imagine it must be on their site as well. Best, Alex http://www.VerizonEatsPoop.com On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Edmund A. Hintz wrote: > Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:55:29 -0700 > From: Edmund A. Hintz > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fwd: SECURITY ADVISOR: Network protection > commentary from InfoWorld.com, Thursday > > Infoworld has a daily security commentary/soapbox, todays subject may be > of interest to a few folks on this list... ;-) > > > ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- > > ======================================================== > SECURITY ADVISOR InfoWorld.com > ======================================================== > > Thursday, August 9, 2001 > > Network protection commentary by: P.J. Connolly > > Advertising Sponsor - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > FREE SECURITY GUIDE: Don't expose your company's deepest > secrets. Get all the in-depth knowledge you need to secure > your enterprise with NetIQ's FREE step-by-step security > guide - "Selecting The Right Security Solution"- at: > http://www.netiq.com/sponsor/default.asp?263 > Read it now before it's too late. NetIQ's security solutions > not only identify intruders, but ensure that threats don't > ever become incidents. NetIQ. Making your world secure > today. Making the world secure tomorrow. > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > CRYPTO LAW MISGUIDED > > Posted at August 3, 2001 01:01 PM PST Pacific > > > RUSSIAN DEVELOPER Dmitry Sklyarov is now a guest of the > FBI, having been charged with violation of the DMCA > (Digital Millennium Copyright Act). The feds and Adobe > Systems are unhappy because Sklyarov > reverse-engineered the encryption scheme used in > Adobe's eBooks technology. This may be perfectly legal > in Russia, but here it's a felony. > > If Sklyarov had just written a paper and put together > some PowerPoint slides for a presentation, things > would be a lot simpler. Can you say "First Amendment"? > But press reports claim that Sklyarov came to a > convention in Las Vegas with 500 demo copies of his > decryption program. That's a problem -- 500 of > anything is enough evidence to prove a distribution > charge. Although the demo version will process only > about a quarter of an eBook -- and his employer > ElcomSoft is keeping the full version under wraps -- > Sklyarov will get deported if he's lucky, and jail if > he's not. > > If I were running Adobe, I'd have hired Sklyarov > because he grasps encryption better than anyone at > Adobe. The company chose instead to get heavy, hoping > that nobody would notice the eBook scheme's > shortcomings. This backfired when, faced with an > ill-concealed rebellion among its own employees, Adobe > management caved and is now calling for Sklyarov's release. > > This circus underscores a fundamental flaw in the DMCA: > that any "reverse engineering" of an encryption scheme > is illegal. It doesn't matter what your motive is; if > you're not authorized by the owner to tinker, you're a > criminal. This flies in the face of centuries of > engineering progress that came about because someone > made improvements to somebody else's work. It's time > to put a provision into the DMCA that should have been > in the original bill: one that allows for legitimate > discussion and research. Send this column to your > representatives and senators, because as the law > stands right now, Thomas Edison would get life. > > A secure infrastructure for e-commerce cannot be > created if the mere act of finding and publicizing > holes in security schemes is a crime. A "reasonable > behavior" test would have exonerated recent victims of > the DMCA such as Princeton's Edward Felten, who with > others entered the recording industry's contest to > crack its latest "uncrackable" watermarking scheme. > Yet he was threatened with a lawsuit this spring for > succeeding and for publishing his results. > > It's not hard to identify malicious behavior; judges > and juries do that every day. If e-commerce is going > to succeed, it has to be secure; and if it's going to > be secure, it has to be tested. I'd rather that > testing take place at the hands of some mild-mannered > academics scrambling for tenure than by some digital > pirate less interested in getting rich than in > listening to free music, or discrediting my business. > > P.J. Connolly (pj_connolly@infoworld.com) covers > security for the Test Center. Get this column free via > e-mail each week. Sign up at http://www.iwsubscribe.com/newsletters. > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > MORE SECURITY ADVISOR > For a complete archive of his InfoWorld columns visit > http://www2.infoworld.com/cgi/component/columnarchive.wbs?column=swatch > > INFOWORLD OPINIONS > Weekly commentary from the most trusted voices in > IT at: http://www.infoworld.com/community/t_opinions.html > > To join, or start, a discussion on this or any IT-related > topic, please visit our InfoWorld forums at > http://forums.infoworld.com. Here you can interact and > exchange ideas with InfoWorld staff and other readers. > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > QUOTE OF THE DAY: > > "What we are doing now I compare to the government's 'Best > of Breed' approach of the 1990s but with a little Viagra > added in." > > --Mark Forman, director of IT and e-government within the > Bush administration's Office of Management and Budget, > explains to InfoWorld Senior Editor Jennifer Jones how the > current fed-wide IT revamp enhances an earlier policy. > > http://iwsun4.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/08/03/010803hnforman.xml?080 > 9thse > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > SUBSCRIBE > To subscribe to any of InfoWorld's e-mail newsletters, > tell your friends and colleagues to go to: > http://www.iwsubscribe.com/newsletters/ > > To subscribe to InfoWorld.com, or InfoWorld Print, > or both, go to http://www.iwsubscribe.com > > UNSUBSCRIBE > If you want to unsubscribe from InfoWorld's Newsletters, > go to http://iwsubscribe.com/newsletters/unsubscribe/ > > CHANGE E-MAIL > If you want to change the e-mail address where > you are receiving InfoWorld newsletters, go to > http://iwsubscribe.com/newsletters/adchange/ > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > Must-Have Info for Can-Do Companies > Even in the new economy, small and medium-sized > companies are the little engines that can and do power > the economy. And they could no sooner do without > information technology, and the savvy to use it wisely and > well, than the Fortune 500. If that sounds like you and your > organization, InfoWorld's Small-Medium Business Report > newsletter is your must-read weekly digest of technology > and management stories you need to read. Subscribe now at > http://www.iwsubscribe.com/newsletters/ > > Advertising Sponsor - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > FREE SECURITY GUIDE: Don't expose your company's deepest > secrets. Get all the in-depth knowledge you need to secure > your enterprise with NetIQ's FREE step-by-step security > guide - "Selecting The Right Security Solution"- at: > http://www.netiq.com/sponsor/default.asp?263 > Read it now before it's too late. NetIQ's security solutions > not only identify intruders, but ensure that threats don't > ever become incidents. NetIQ. Making your world secure > today. Making the world secure tomorrow. > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > Copyright 2001 InfoWorld Media Group Inc. > > > ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- > > > Peace, > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, > Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... > Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, > */ | \* And the world will live as one. > '78 Westy ***** Imagine." > http://www.hintz.org > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Thu Aug 9 11:19:56 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Free book terminology (was Things you can't do with ebooks) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Robert Knop wrote: > How about a crippleBook? That refers back to "CrippleWare," the form of > ShareWare which had key functionality disabled until you paid the > licensing fee. Not really the same thing, since *here* you pay the > licensing fee just to get the crippled version. I'd avoid any use of the word "cripple." I think what we need is a term that communicates not only the restrictions, but the extreme customer-equals-criminal paranoia of the people who put them there. Use is not just being restricted, but increasingly monitored, like the customer is on some sort of probation. =S From crism at maden.org Thu Aug 9 11:33:58 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] monitoring In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010809113050.00ad9230@mail.maden.org> At 09:07 9-08-2001, Peter wrote: >Why do i have this dump feeling that i know this "federal agency"? >Arresting programmers and then monitoring what the Judge is doing. >Interesting! No - the agency was named in a different article. It's the Administrative Office of the Courts. The FBI is under the DOJ, which is executive; the judges are in the judicial branch. -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca Thu Aug 9 11:55:20 2001 From: marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca (Austin Hook) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Are charges same or amended? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Something I don't quite follow: Has the FBI continued with the same charges against Dmitry (i.e., one sale of one copy of Elcomsoft's software), or have they amended them? A.H. From dmarti at zgp.org Thu Aug 9 12:20:32 2001 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Monday August 13th, San Jose Message-ID: <20010809122032.H9472@zgp.org> Free Dmitry Free Dmitry CANDLELIGHT VIGIL FOR FREE SPEECH AND FAIR USE Free Dmitry Free Dmitry Monday, August 13, 2001. 8:30 PM Downtown San Jose, California, USA Please join programmers and freedom lovers in San Jose on Monday in a candlelight vigil for free speech and fair use. "The U.S. government for the first time is prosecuting a programmer for building a tool that may be used for many purposes, including those that legitimate purchasers need in order to exercise their fair use rights," said Electronic Frontier Foundation attorney Robin Gross. Demonstrations calling for Sklyarov's release have been held worldwide. For information on Dmitri's case and other "Free Dmitry" events, please visit http://freesklyarov.org/ MEET AT THE SNAKE: We will meet in downtown San Jose at the snake sculpture, Quetzalcoatl, at the south end of Cesar Chavez Park. Cesar Chavez Park is at the corner of South Market St. and West San Carlos St., across San Carlos from the Hyatt St. Claire Hotel. From badnewsbears at prodigy.net Thu Aug 9 12:44:38 2001 From: badnewsbears at prodigy.net (Yogi) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] technically inaccurate news reports References: Message-ID: <006101c1210b$bd798860$73f2fea9@n6y3p0> Well DONE, Rebecca! It's an easy trap to fall into, but at least *we* should know better. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rebecca J. Hill" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 1:47 PM Subject: [free-sklyarov] technically inaccurate news reports > This is nit-picking, I know. The first two news reports I heard/read this > morning reported that Dmitry had been arrested on charges of copyright > infringement. While I am glad that this case is getting some coverage, I am > tired of hearing Dmitry referred to as a Russian HACKER and this whole > infringement bit. Below is the nice response I received from one of the > folks I tried to gently correct. I will continue to "assist" the media in > getting it right. . . and I hope others do the same. > > Rebecca > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paczkowski, John [mailto:JPaczkowski@knightridder.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 10:07 AM > To: 'Rebecca J. Hill' > Subject: RE: Sklyarov > > > Point taken, Rebecca. I really should know better. > I've updated my column to further clarify my original phrasing. > > For what it's worth, the original text of my column also included this > phrase which addresses the true nature of the alleged violation: > > "Sklyarov stands accused of violating the Digital Millennium Copyright Act > by developing and distributing a program that decrypts and converts eBook > files to PDF." > > Best, > > John > > __________________________________________________ > John Paczkowski > Good Morning Silicon Valley | http://www.gmsv.com > SiliconValley.com | http://www.siliconvalley.com > ----- > Knight Ridder Digital > 35 South Market Street > San Jose, CA 95113 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rebecca J. Hill > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 9:43 AM > To: jpaczkowski@knightridder.com > Subject: Sklyarov > > > Hello, > > While I am very pleased that you are providing some coverage of Dmitry > Sklyarov's case, I am disappointed that you mistakenly report that Sklyarov > was arrested for copyright infringement. This is NOT TRUE. In fact, this > is part of what makes the allegedly violated provision of the DMCA > controversial--that no copyright infringement need occur to get ensnared by > the "anti-circumvention" provisions. Instead of going into more detail > here, I simply encourage you (and other media folks) to read the criminal > complaint, the portions of the copyright code involved, and the > comprehensive FAQ about the case provided by the Electronic Frontier > Foundation--all can be found through www.eff.org. > > Thanks, > Rebecca > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From warthawg at ecpi.com Thu Aug 9 13:42:08 2001 From: warthawg at ecpi.com (Joe Barr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FBI chief Mueller lied to Senate In-Reply-To: <985444873.20010809121235@elcomsoft.com> References: <985444873.20010809121235@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: <20010809154208.5dd4be59.warthawg@ecpi.com> I may be wrong, but I believe there is a world of differnce between keyboard monitors that a system admin puts in place on a network, or on machines in a network, to capture login attempts and the like, and the keyboard logging done in the Scarfo case. The latter is much more likely to be something like Tempest, a listening in from the outside rather than an internal device placed on the pc. But who knows.. On Thu, 9 Aug 2001 12:12:35 +0400 Vladimir Katalov wrote: > Hello, > > > According to The Register, FBI Chief Mueller lied to the Senate about his > > knowledge of Key Stroke logging devices. > > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/20894.html > > More on that (from Security Wire Digest, > http://infosecuritymag.bellevue.com): > > > *JUDGE ORDERS FBI TO DISCLOSE KEYSTROKE CAPTURE METHOD > > > > A federal judge in New Jersey ordered the FBI to disclose how it > > logged the keystrokes of Nicodemo "Little Nicky" Scarfo, who's > > charged with running illegal gambling and loan-sharking operations > > for the Gambino crime family. Defense lawyers challenged the FBI's > > use of a keystroke logger to obtain the password and encryption keys > > used by the Scarfo on his office PC, saying a keystroke logger falls > > outside the scope of a standard search warrant. Judge Nicholas > > Politan ordered the FBI to produce details on the keystroke logging > > technique, saying he needed more information to determine the > > legality of the process. The FBI has until Aug. 31 to comply with > > the order. > > /Vladimir > vkatalov@elcomsoft.com > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- #=============================================# # We do not execute retarded people in Texas. # # We make them governor. # #=============================================# From rknop at pobox.com Thu Aug 9 14:08:21 2001 From: rknop at pobox.com (Robert Knop) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Free book terminology (was Things you can't do with ebooks) In-Reply-To: <20010809095126.E7071@zgp.org> Message-ID: > > How about a crippleBook? That refers back to "CrippleWare," the form of > > ShareWare which had key functionality disabled until you paid the > > licensing fee. Not really the same thing, since *here* you pay the > > licensing fee just to get the crippled version. But it does get the > > point across that you're getting something limited. > > Can I just say that widespread use of this term would hurt outreach > efforts to organizations of/for people with disabilities? Who would > _need_ circumvention devices to read some e-books? Yes, you are probably right. Ohter possibilities? limitBook? leaseBook? -Rob From jono at microshaft.org Thu Aug 9 14:48:13 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [DMCA_discuss] FW: Rice U. Student cracks Wireless encryption protocol (WEP)] Message-ID: <20010809144813.A15227@networkcommand.com> ----- Forwarded message from "Jon O ." ----- To: dmca_discuss@lists.microshaft.org Subject: [DMCA_discuss] FW: Rice U. Student cracks Wireless encryption protocol (WEP) List-Id: DMCA_Discuss mailing list List-Archive: Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 14:42:31 -0700 -----Original Message----- From: Jon Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 2:37 PM To: Subject: Rice U. Student cracks Wireless encryption protocol (WEP) Intern proves WLAN encryption protocol vulnerable: http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20010808S0042 Here is the paper: http://www.cs.rice.edu/~astubble/wep_attack.pdf I wonder if someone will arrest him. ----- End forwarded message ----- _______________________________________________ ------------------------ http://www.anti-dmca.org ------------------------ DMCA_discuss mailing list DMCA_discuss@lists.microshaft.org http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss ----- End forwarded message ----- From declan at well.com Thu Aug 9 14:50:34 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FBI chief Mueller lied to Senate In-Reply-To: <20010809154208.5dd4be59.warthawg@ecpi.com>; from warthawg@ecpi.com on Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 03:42:08PM -0500 References: <985444873.20010809121235@elcomsoft.com> <20010809154208.5dd4be59.warthawg@ecpi.com> Message-ID: <20010809175034.A15018@cluebot.com> There is. The Register article was too quick on the draw. I have the transcript of the exchange on Politechbot.com. -Declan On Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 03:42:08PM -0500, Joe Barr wrote: > > I may be wrong, but I believe there is a world of differnce between keyboard monitors that a system admin puts in place on a network, or on machines in a network, to capture login attempts and the like, and the keyboard logging done in the Scarfo case. The latter is much more likely to be something like Tempest, a listening in from the outside rather than an internal device placed on the pc. > > But who knows.. > > > > On Thu, 9 Aug 2001 12:12:35 +0400 > Vladimir Katalov wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > According to The Register, FBI Chief Mueller lied to the Senate about his > > > knowledge of Key Stroke logging devices. > > > > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/20894.html > > > > More on that (from Security Wire Digest, > > http://infosecuritymag.bellevue.com): > > > > > *JUDGE ORDERS FBI TO DISCLOSE KEYSTROKE CAPTURE METHOD > > > > > > A federal judge in New Jersey ordered the FBI to disclose how it > > > logged the keystrokes of Nicodemo "Little Nicky" Scarfo, who's > > > charged with running illegal gambling and loan-sharking operations > > > for the Gambino crime family. Defense lawyers challenged the FBI's > > > use of a keystroke logger to obtain the password and encryption keys > > > used by the Scarfo on his office PC, saying a keystroke logger falls > > > outside the scope of a standard search warrant. Judge Nicholas > > > Politan ordered the FBI to produce details on the keystroke logging > > > technique, saying he needed more information to determine the > > > legality of the process. The FBI has until Aug. 31 to comply with > > > the order. > > > > /Vladimir > > vkatalov@elcomsoft.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > -- > #=============================================# > # We do not execute retarded people in Texas. # > # We make them governor. # > #=============================================# > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From rms at privacyfoundation.org Thu Aug 9 15:22:35 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] False story about Dmitry on Russian TV Message-ID: <007d01c12121$d0d45be0$0f01a8c0@tiac.net> Hello, If Dmitry didn't have enough troubles already, it looks like 2 evenings ago a Russian TV news program made up a story that Dmitry's Moscow apartment was searched by police and classified Russian government files were found. The story appears to be a total fabrication. The Russian police, Dmitry, and Elcomsoft have now all denied the story. It is unclear what the TV news program was hoping to accomplish. The show was broadcast both in Russia and here in the US. A friend of my wife saw it in Boston on the International channel. Unfortunately, I did not find out the name of the Russian news show with the false report. Here's what AP had to say about the story: Russia won't prosecute software programmer http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-6830485.html?tag=mn_hd "Chepchugov also denied reports that Interior Ministry investigators had searched Sklyarov's Moscow apartment. Elcomsoft director Vladimir Katalov has also denied any such search." Richard From ed at hintz.org Thu Aug 9 15:41:23 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] False story about Dmitry on Russian TV Message-ID: <200108092241.f79MfNc29109@phil.hintz.org> On 8/9/01 3:22 PM, rms@privacyfoundation.org thus spake: >If Dmitry didn't have enough troubles already, it looks like 2 evenings >ago a Russian TV news program made up a story that Dmitry's Moscow >apartment was searched by police and classified Russian government files >were found. The story appears to be a total fabrication. The Russian >police, Dmitry, and Elcomsoft have now all denied the story. It is >unclear what the TV news program was hoping to accomplish. The show was I wonder how much that cost, and who paid for it... :-\ Great way to spread FUD and run a smear campaign against the poor guy. I'm finding it really difficult not to drop into conspiracy mode on this one, it's just way too convenient... Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kfoss at planetpdf.com Thu Aug 9 16:33:00 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] False story about Dmitry on Russian TV In-Reply-To: <007d01c12121$d0d45be0$0f01a8c0@tiac.net> References: <007d01c12121$d0d45be0$0f01a8c0@tiac.net> Message-ID: At 6:22 PM -0400 8/9/01, Richard M. Smith wrote: >Unfortunately, I did not find out the name of the Russian news show with >the false report. It was the NTV network -- I followed a few of the un-sourced stories over a couple days, which ended with the statement that it was all fabricated. One allegation was that they'd found materials in Dmitry's apartment labelled "for the official use" that the report suggested were stolen and that he'd broken the country's computer network grids. It's all been labeled a total fabrication now, the supposed search of Dmitry's aprtment never took place, etc. A "lie from end to end," as Vladimir Katalov was quoted in one report. rgds ~ Kurt ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network -- From jono at microshaft.org Thu Aug 9 16:34:36 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] False story about Dmitry on Russian TV In-Reply-To: ; from kfoss@planetpdf.com on Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 06:33:00PM -0500 References: <007d01c12121$d0d45be0$0f01a8c0@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20010809163435.F15227@networkcommand.com> This is good to know as I just heard all kinds of information about NTV and the journalists fleeing to another station because the state just took it back over. Can someone confirm or expand on this? Thanks, Jon On 09-Aug-2001, Kurt Foss wrote: > At 6:22 PM -0400 8/9/01, Richard M. Smith wrote: > >Unfortunately, I did not find out the name of the Russian news show with > >the false report. > > It was the NTV network -- I followed a few of the un-sourced stories > over a couple days, which ended with the statement that it was all > fabricated. > > One allegation was that they'd found materials in Dmitry's apartment > labelled "for the official use" that the report suggested were stolen > and that he'd broken the country's computer network grids. > > It's all been labeled a total fabrication now, the supposed search of > Dmitry's aprtment never took place, etc. A "lie from end to end," as > Vladimir Katalov was quoted in one report. > > rgds ~ Kurt > ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ > Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums > mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com > http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ > BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org Thu Aug 9 16:49:51 2001 From: free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org (Julian T. J. Midgley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [DMCA_discuss] FW: Rice U. Student cracks Wireless encryption protocol (WEP)] In-Reply-To: <20010809144813.A15227@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Jon O . wrote: > Intern proves WLAN encryption protocol vulnerable: > http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20010808S0042 > > Here is the paper: > http://www.cs.rice.edu/~astubble/wep_attack.pdf > > I wonder if someone will arrest him. Since when has WLAN encryption been a 'technological protection measure' designed to prevent copyright infringement? Julian -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F UK Free Dmitry Protest: http://uk.freesklyarov.org/ From jono at microshaft.org Thu Aug 9 16:56:52 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [DMCA_discuss] FW: Rice U. Student cracks Wireless encryption protocol (WEP)] In-Reply-To: ; from free-sklyarov@effector.xenoclast.org on Fri, Aug 10, 2001 at 12:49:51AM +0100 References: <20010809144813.A15227@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010809165651.A16138@networkcommand.com> Since when have CDs become a technological protection measure designed to prevent copyright infringement? http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/20919.html Or operating systems? http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/preview/order.asp Or Virus Scanners? Try to have an open mind about all the things they could use... On 10-Aug-2001, Julian T. J. Midgley wrote: > On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Jon O . wrote: > > > Intern proves WLAN encryption protocol vulnerable: > > http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20010808S0042 > > > > Here is the paper: > > http://www.cs.rice.edu/~astubble/wep_attack.pdf > > > > I wonder if someone will arrest him. > > Since when has WLAN encryption been a 'technological protection > measure' designed to prevent copyright infringement? > > Julian > > -- > Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org > Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F > UK Free Dmitry Protest: http://uk.freesklyarov.org/ From john at starta.org Thu Aug 9 17:01:12 2001 From: john at starta.org (John Starta) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FBI chief Mueller lied to Senate In-Reply-To: <20010809154208.5dd4be59.warthawg@ecpi.com> References: <985444873.20010809121235@elcomsoft.com> <985444873.20010809121235@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010809163701.0392b070@popcorn> Sounds like D.I.R.T. to me (). CDS has reportedly been quite successful in selling within the beltway. jas At 03:42 PM 8/9/01 -0500, Joe Barr wrote: >I may be wrong, but I believe there is a world of differnce between >keyboard monitors that a system admin puts in place on a network, or on >machines in a network, to capture login attempts and the like, and the >keyboard logging done in the Scarfo case. The latter is much more likely >to be something like Tempest, a listening in from the outside rather than >an internal device placed on the pc. > >But who knows.. > > > >On Thu, 9 Aug 2001 12:12:35 +0400 >Vladimir Katalov wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > According to The Register, FBI Chief Mueller lied to the Senate about his > > > knowledge of Key Stroke logging devices. > > > > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/20894.html > > > > More on that (from Security Wire Digest, > > http://infosecuritymag.bellevue.com): > > > > > *JUDGE ORDERS FBI TO DISCLOSE KEYSTROKE CAPTURE METHOD > > > > > > A federal judge in New Jersey ordered the FBI to disclose how it > > > logged the keystrokes of Nicodemo "Little Nicky" Scarfo, who's > > > charged with running illegal gambling and loan-sharking operations > > > for the Gambino crime family. Defense lawyers challenged the FBI's > > > use of a keystroke logger to obtain the password and encryption keys > > > used by the Scarfo on his office PC, saying a keystroke logger falls > > > outside the scope of a standard search warrant. Judge Nicholas > > > Politan ordered the FBI to produce details on the keystroke logging > > > technique, saying he needed more information to determine the > > > legality of the process. The FBI has until Aug. 31 to comply with > > > the order. > > > > /Vladimir > > vkatalov@elcomsoft.com From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Thu Aug 9 17:35:19 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [DMCA_discuss] FW: Rice U. Student cracks Wireless encryption protocol (WEP)] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Julian T. J. Midgley wrote: > Since when has WLAN encryption been a 'technological protection > measure' designed to prevent copyright infringement? I don't think there's anything to worry about in this case. However, it is very easy to turn any cipher into a copyright protection measure. Just use it to protect music. This has been a growing concern among cryptologists, that a startup company selling a proprietary cipher could use such a trick as insurance against analysis. Usually this is only a concern when dealing with crackpots or suspected con=artists, rather than providers of legitimate security products. > Julian -S From free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org Thu Aug 9 17:55:12 2001 From: free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org (Julian T. J. Midgley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [DMCA_discuss] FW: Rice U. Student cracks Wireless encryption protocol (WEP)] In-Reply-To: <20010809165651.A16138@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner; and ological measure On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Jon O . wrote: > > Since when have CDs become a technological protection measure > designed to prevent copyright infringement? > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/20919.html > > Or operating systems? > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/preview/order.asp > > Or Virus Scanners? > > Try to have an open mind about all the things they could use... Sorry, that was quite a bit harsher than I meant it. Occasionally we've concentrated too much on the generalities, and missed some of the significant detail, which risks weakening our arguments, and I basically meant "well, it's a not a very useful question, since no-one really thinks of WLAN encryption as an effective copyright protection mechanism". It's 1:40am in the UK, and I fired it off before thinking - my apologies. But it raises the very interesting question of "What does it take to turn an encryption algorithm (or anything else) into a copyright protection mechanism [thus turning breaking the algorithm into a crime]?" I can't see anything in the DMCA that prevents the transition occuring the moment someone uses an algorithm to protect a copyrighted work in a way that is 'effective' ie. requires some form of permission (eg a password or key) obtained from the author of the work in order to access the work. Let's say I write a book and offer to sell electronic copies of it. I create a PGP key pair, encrypt the book using the public key, and give a copy of PGP, a copy of the private key, and the private key's passphrase to anyone who buys it, under a contract that prevents them from giving the key or passphrase to anyone else, or revealing the decrypted text to anyone. As far as I can tell, this turns PGP into a copyright protection mechanism overnight[0] and makes pointing out any flaws in it either a criminal and civil offence depending on exactly how you do it and what you do with the knowledge. IANAL, and hope that this interpretation is wrong. If I want to, I can stick my own frontend on PGP that also disables copying to clipboards/printing etc - but that's not necessary to make it a copyright protection mechanism - there's nothing in the DMCA that obliges authors to remove fair use opportunities for the protection measures to count as effective. [0] to t a technological measure -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F UK Free Dmitry Protest: http://uk.freesklyarov.org/ From jtjm at xenoclast.org Thu Aug 9 18:06:04 2001 From: jtjm at xenoclast.org (Julian T. J. Midgley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [DMCA_discuss] FW: Rice U. Student cracks Wireless encryption protocol (WEP)] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Julian T. J. Midgley wrote: > means to > descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, > or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair > a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright > owner; and > ological measure On Thu, 9 It's not a good night tonight - I foolishly assumed that selecting text in Acrobat reader and pasting it to pine would do the right thing, in the usual X way. Embarassingly, it turns out that a substantial number of spurious control characters get included, including a fair few cursor movements, and at least one ^X followed by a 'y'. Doh! Was going to quote the definitions of "circumvention" and "effectively control access", with my reasoning as to why PGP becomes a copyright protection measure when used as discussed- will leave this for another time. -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F UK Free Dmitry Protest: http://uk.freesklyarov.org/ From rjhill at directvinternet.com Thu Aug 9 18:20:31 2001 From: rjhill at directvinternet.com (Rebecca J. Hill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [DMCA_discuss] FW: Rice U. Student cracks Wireless encryption protocol (WEP)] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Since when has WLAN encryption been a 'technological protection > measure' designed to prevent copyright infringement? > > Julian > One of the (many) critisisms with the anti-circumvention provisions of the DMCA is that a violation can occur even when the primary material being protected by the technological measure is not copyrightable. In other words, as long as ANY portion of the material behind the lock is copyrightable, breaking the protective devise could be deemed a DMCA violation. R > -----Original Message----- > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Julian T. J. Midgley > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 4:50 PM > To: Jon O . > Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] [DMCA_discuss] FW: Rice U. Student cracks > Wireless encryption protocol (WEP)] > > > On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Jon O . wrote: > > > Intern proves WLAN encryption protocol vulnerable: > > http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20010808S0042 > > > > Here is the paper: > > http://www.cs.rice.edu/~astubble/wep_attack.pdf > > > > I wonder if someone will arrest him. > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From proclus at iname.com Thu Aug 9 18:30:48 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: The End of Innovation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200108100130.f7A1Uok00401@moerbeke> Some of you might like to clue this fellow. I put in my two cents. http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/user/view/cs_msg/4153 Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ BTW, I've been quiet lately, but I am really enjoying all the discussion of how all this relates to our revolutionary heretage and freedoms, ie Jon O., Lincoln, etc. -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From jono at microshaft.org Thu Aug 9 19:18:02 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [DMCA_discuss] FW: Rice U. Student cracks Wireless encryption protocol (WEP)] In-Reply-To: ; from rjhill@directvinternet.com on Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 06:20:31PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010809191802.B16770@networkcommand.com> I was under the impression the primary function of this list was to work on freeing Dmitry and actually got flamed for it yesterday and sorta flamed for this one ;). However, there is a DMCA mailing list here: http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss I'm not sure if people will get flamed for this thread and the threat is enough to make me think twice about certain ideas regardless of their importance. I think this is a good thread. I guess it's up to the list members what they find important... Thanks, Jon On 09-Aug-2001, Rebecca J. Hill wrote: > > Since when has WLAN encryption been a 'technological protection > > measure' designed to prevent copyright infringement? > > > > Julian > > > One of the (many) critisisms with the anti-circumvention provisions of the > DMCA is that a violation can occur even when the primary material being > protected by the technological measure is not copyrightable. In other > words, as long as ANY portion of the material behind the lock is > copyrightable, breaking the protective devise could be deemed a DMCA > violation. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > > [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Julian T. J. Midgley > > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 4:50 PM > > To: Jon O . > > Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net > > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] [DMCA_discuss] FW: Rice U. Student cracks > > Wireless encryption protocol (WEP)] > > > > > > On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Jon O . wrote: > > > > > Intern proves WLAN encryption protocol vulnerable: > > > http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20010808S0042 > > > > > > Here is the paper: > > > http://www.cs.rice.edu/~astubble/wep_attack.pdf > > > > > > I wonder if someone will arrest him. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From bobds at blorch.org Thu Aug 9 20:14:29 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] False story about Dmitry on Russian TV In-Reply-To: <200108092241.f79MfNc29109@phil.hintz.org> References: <200108092241.f79MfNc29109@phil.hintz.org> Message-ID: <01080920142902.09577@bitworks> On Thursday 09 August 2001 15:41, you wrote: > Great way to spread FUD and run a smear campaign against the poor guy. > I'm finding it really difficult not to drop into conspiracy mode on this > one, it's just way too convenient... Especially because I just can't see how this could possibly benefit anybody BUT a conspiracy. Who besides the US government would stand to gain anything by something like this? -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From jono at microshaft.org Thu Aug 9 20:30:14 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] False story about Dmitry on Russian TV In-Reply-To: <01080920142902.09577@bitworks>; from bobds@blorch.org on Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 08:14:29PM -0700 References: <200108092241.f79MfNc29109@phil.hintz.org> <01080920142902.09577@bitworks> Message-ID: <20010809203014.G16770@networkcommand.com> On 09-Aug-2001, Bob Smart wrote: > On Thursday 09 August 2001 15:41, you wrote: > > > Great way to spread FUD and run a smear campaign against the poor guy. > > I'm finding it really difficult not to drop into conspiracy mode on this > > one, it's just way too convenient... > > Especially because I just can't see how this could possibly benefit anybody > BUT a conspiracy. Who besides the US government would stand to gain anything > by something like this? This is a good point. Think about the implications of this. False News from end-to-end? I figure there are a couple things to consider. The DMCA is going global at this point. Canada is close to getting one. There are more: DMCA Worldwide: Canada, New Zealand, USA http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/07/28/1658234&mode=thread Question is why? Answer: WIPO + WTO = DMCA. If I control Russian news, I want to smear the arrested. I want the public to think this was a bad guy. I want the DMCA to look good. If you read the WIPO documents, you will find them pressuring these other countries to create DMCA type laws. They are not focused on Russia right now because it is kinda out of control as it is. Read this: http://www.ustr.gov/pdf/special.pdf It should scare the hell out of you. ------------------------------------------------- Samples: Argentina refuses to recognize micro-organisms as patentable. (Patent Life?) ..questions remain whether sufficient legal authority exists *as required* by the TRIPS Agreement for civil ex parte search procedures. Macau's courts have implemented a special expedited prosecution system that allows a suspect to be brought immediately to trial. ------------------------------------------------- Then when you've had enough, do this: Take back the Net! http://anti-dmca.org/take_back/ > > -- > > What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely > used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From paul at paultopia.net Thu Aug 9 20:44:09 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] more about Dmitry and globalization In-Reply-To: <20010809191802.B16770@networkcommand.com> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010809213852.032712b0@mail.paultopia.net> Everyone, I can't over-emphasize the influence economic globalization has has on this case, and others. Only in a globalized economy, prepared for this development by NAFTA, GATT, WTO, WIPO, etc., etc., could a corporation pick and choose its nations law to apply. That's what happened here, you realize. Adobe chose to apply U.S. law because it was the most restrictive, the one they could be sure would get Dmitry punished. Russian law wouldn't have worked, even though the only nation whose law would traditionally and sensibly have been applied is Russia. If Singapore law would have been more repressive (not unlikely in most cases), Adobe could have waited for Dmitry to travel to Singapore, and then chosen their law. Is this our world? Is this our globe? Is this our freedom? I've hashed out a statement of principles on the whole globalization issue, I'd like anyone's imput: http://www.creepyskunk.com/balance/ Also, I'm thinking of writing a flyer, to be distributed before the upcoming FTAA protests in D.C. this fall, entitled something like "why globalization is bad for police" -- in the hopes of cutting down on the repression a little. If anyone wants to help with ideas or words, please contact me. -Paul Gowder -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From crism at maden.org Thu Aug 9 23:24:35 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] False story about Dmitry on Russian TV In-Reply-To: <01080920142902.09577@bitworks> References: <200108092241.f79MfNc29109@phil.hintz.org> <200108092241.f79MfNc29109@phil.hintz.org> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010809232243.00ab2320@mail.maden.org> At 20:14 9-08-2001, Bob Smart wrote: >Especially because I just can't see how this could possibly benefit anybody >BUT a conspiracy. Who besides the US government would stand to gain anything >by something like this? The television station. It's a sensational story, they get more viewers for their newscast. Who the hell cares if it's true, as long as people are watching? Take a look at the _SF Examiner_: today's front-page story is a wire story about racy fashions for pre-teens. NTV was recently taken over by the state gas monopoly, and all the real journalists left (if I recall the situation correctly). If the _Weekly World News_ were covering the case, they might run something like that, too. -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Aug 10 00:21:02 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] CDR: Public Records in USA v. Sklyarov (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20010807211716.1a6ff355.warthawg@ecpi.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Aug 2001, Joe Barr wrote: > Sealed to avoid placing any agents at risk during the investigation? > > Something stinks to high heaven here, but I can't quite put my nose on it. I would guess that sealing the complaint during a criminal investigation is standard procedure, but IANAL. Seems reasonable that, in the absence of additional circumstances, the FBI would not want a criminal to know they're after him. Whether or not they got a "criminal" this time around is an orthogonal issue, really. -- -alexf From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Aug 10 01:50:15 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Are charges same or amended? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Austin Hook wrote: > Something I don't quite follow: Has the FBI continued with the same > charges against Dmitry (i.e., one sale of one copy of Elcomsoft's > software), or have they amended them? Keep in mind that the FBI does not prosecute cases. Their job, as I understand it [IANAL], is to investigate complaints and execute appropriate arrests. It is up to the prosecution, i.e. the people from US Attorney's Office, to bring charges against him. Unless I am mistaken, this is what will formally happen at the pre-trial hearing & arraignment scheduled for Aug 23. It seems likely, for lack of other data, that the charges against him will be "mostly" the same as those listed in the original complaint. -- -alexf From jtjm at xenoclast.org Fri Aug 10 02:56:31 2001 From: jtjm at xenoclast.org (Julian T. J. Midgley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] CDR: Public Records in USA v. Sklyarov (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Alex Fabrikant wrote: > On Tue, 7 Aug 2001, Joe Barr wrote: > > Sealed to avoid placing any agents at risk during the investigation? > > > > Something stinks to high heaven here, but I can't quite put my nose on it. > > > I would guess that sealing the complaint during a criminal investigation > is standard procedure, but IANAL. Seems reasonable that, in the absence of > additional circumstances, the FBI would not want a criminal to know > they're after him. Whether or not they got a "criminal" this time around > is an orthogonal issue, really. If they didn't, the Mafia and others could really go to town: Dear Freedom of Information Officer, (A) Please inform me of all criminal investigations currently ongoing in which I am under suspicion, and release to me all available documents concerning these investigations. (B) Please also reveal the location of all phone taps, keyboard loggers, hidden cameras and listening devices being used in the course of these investigations at any of my three properties (addresses in Appendix A), or on or in any of my 12 cars, my Gulfstream, or my 2 personal yachts (enumerated in Appendix A). (C) Please supply me with the names and addresses of those law enforcement officials currently tasked with keeping a watch on my house and tailing me in my car. (D) I have provided at Appendix B maps showing the extent of my various properties. I should be most grateful if you could circle those bushes, shrubs, trees, rocks and walls behind which the above officials hide in the course of their duties, and return the maps to me. Yours sincerely, Don 'The Direct Approach' Corleone" -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F UK Free Dmitry Protest: http://uk.freesklyarov.org/ From steve at theStarport.org Fri Aug 10 07:36:42 2001 From: steve at theStarport.org (Stephen R. Savitzky) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Monday August 13th, San Jose In-Reply-To: Don Marti's message of "Thu, 9 Aug 2001 12:20:32 -0700" References: <20010809122032.H9472@zgp.org> Message-ID: Don Marti writes: > CANDLELIGHT VIGIL FOR FREE SPEECH AND FAIR USE > Free Dmitry Free Dmitry > > Monday, August 13, 2001. 8:30 PM > Downtown San Jose, California, USA > WHAT TO BRING > Please bring a favorite book, a candle, and a lighter. Make that a songbook and add a guitar, if you have 'em. I recommend _Rise Up Singing_. -- / Steve Savitzky \ 1997 Pegasus Award winner: best science song--+ \ / http://theStarport.com/people/steve/ V \ \ hacker/songwriter: http://theStarport.com/people/steve/Doc/Songs/ \_ Kids' page: MOVED ---> http://Interesting.Places.to/Browse/forKids/ _/ From warthawg at ecpi.com Fri Aug 10 08:40:03 2001 From: warthawg at ecpi.com (Joe Barr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Monday August 13th, San Jose In-Reply-To: References: <20010809122032.H9472@zgp.org> Message-ID: <20010810104003.55a5d12a.warthawg@ecpi.com> hummmmmmmmmmmm Amazing brace, how 'leet the sound That jailed a geek like me I once was free, but now I'm bound was a dad, but now a trustee Twas brace that taught my heart to fear, and brace my freedom relieved How atrocious did that brace appear The hour I was deceived Through many dangers, jails, and snares I have already come 'Tis brace has brought me here thus far And brace that keeps me from home. How sweet the roar of protest sounds In a believer's ear It soothes his sorrows, heals his wounds And drives away his fear. (sorry, too much coffee this morning) On 10 Aug 2001 07:36:42 -0700 steve@theStarport.org (Stephen R. Savitzky) wrote: > Don Marti writes: > > > CANDLELIGHT VIGIL FOR FREE SPEECH AND FAIR USE > > Free Dmitry Free Dmitry > > > > Monday, August 13, 2001. 8:30 PM > > Downtown San Jose, California, USA > > > WHAT TO BRING > > Please bring a favorite book, a candle, and a lighter. > > Make that a songbook and add a guitar, if you have 'em. I recommend > _Rise Up Singing_. > > -- > / Steve Savitzky \ 1997 Pegasus Award winner: best science song--+ \ > / http://theStarport.com/people/steve/ V \ > \ hacker/songwriter: http://theStarport.com/people/steve/Doc/Songs/ > \_ Kids' page: MOVED ---> http://Interesting.Places.to/Browse/forKids/ _/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- #=============================================# # We do not execute retarded people in Texas. # # We make them governor. # #=============================================# From dmarti at zgp.org Fri Aug 10 08:55:51 2001 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Monday August 13th, San Jose In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010810085551.A30332@zgp.org> Steve, > Make that a songbook and add a guitar, if you have 'em. I recommend > _Rise Up Singing_. Are you bringing your guitar? And will you do your song about Dmitry? If so, I'll bring extra copies of the lyrics. -- Don Marti What do we want? Free Dmitry! When do we want it? Now! http://zgp.org/~dmarti Free Dmitry: http://eff.org/ dmarti@zgp.org Free the web, burn all GIFs: http://burnallgifs.org/ From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Aug 10 10:45:30 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Monday August 13th, San Jose In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 10 Aug 2001, Stephen R. Savitzky wrote: > Make that a songbook and add a guitar, if you have 'em. I recommend > _Rise Up Singing_. Alas, all I have is a concertina. Useful for driving away mosquitos and other pests, tho. Question: is there any web resource for russian folk music, like in ABC format? =S From jono at microshaft.org Fri Aug 10 11:47:52 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] News: Sklyarov case shows business outweighs First Amendment Message-ID: <20010810114752.B20899@networkcommand.com> Sklyarov case shows business outweighs First Amendment http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/20932.html Sklyarov was engaged in legitimate security research, Schneier said, but for highlighting the poor security of eBook readers, and working for a firm that develops software that "circumvents these ineffectual security systems" he ended up in jail. From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Aug 10 12:15:06 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Monday August 13th, San Jose In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Xcott Craver wrote: > Question: is there any web resource for russian folk music, > like in ABC format? The answer is most likely "yes". What kind of music are you looking for? Song title is simplest of course, but general "type"/"mood"/whatnot would also be good for narrowing things down. There's a lot of folk music out there ya know =) -- -alexf From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Aug 10 12:30:22 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Monday August 13th, San Jose In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Alex Fabrikant wrote: > The answer is most likely "yes". What kind of music are you looking for? > Song title is simplest of course, but general "type"/"mood"/whatnot would > also be good for narrowing things down. There's a lot of folk music out > there ya know =) Well, I was thinking along the lines of laments, or slow airs; something somber that would fit the mood of a candlelight vigil. I am of course looking for melodies rather than lyrics, as I don't know a word of Russian (modulo a few suggestive phrases my brother taught me.) I'm used to Irish music, a genre with a huge amount of slow, tearjerking songs mostly about being stranded far from home, many of which are available online in massive ABC tunebooks. If anyone knows where to look for the Russian equivalent, I'd be very grateful. > -alexf -S From jono at microshaft.org Fri Aug 10 12:48:10 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [DMCA_discuss] Live Web broadcast scheduled for SDMI challenge presentation Message-ID: <20010810124809.H20899@networkcommand.com> Felten et. al. will present the SDMI paper: ----- Begin forwarded message ----- To: dmca_discuss@lists.microshaft.org Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:44:26 -0700 http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/08/10/1917226&mode=nocomment Live Web broadcast scheduled for SDMI challenge presentation "USENIX has always been dedicated to moving technical information out of research and into the public eye. The impact of this paper and the discussion about legal freedoms it has generated are topics that our members and the public have asked be made available to them. That's what this live broadcast aims to do." http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/08/10/1917226&mode=nocomment _______________________________________________ ------------------------ http://www.anti-dmca.org ------------------------ DMCA_discuss mailing list DMCA_discuss@lists.microshaft.org http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss ----- End forwarded message ----- From byoungvt at yahoo.com Fri Aug 10 12:54:21 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] song Message-ID: <20010810195421.5536.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> Sung to Swing low sweet chariot: please amend correct as needed.... Chorus 1: Stoop low FBI agents coming for to keep me from home Chorus 2: Stoop low Adobe Software coming for to keep me from home I came to US to speak at DefCon Chorus 1 Just as I was heading to the Airport Chorus 2 The FBI they arrested me Chorus 1 They say I violated DMCA Chorus 2 They hid me in jail, in Oklahoma Chorus 1 For three weeks I was made their prisoner Chorus 2 I was kept in jail without bail Chorus 1 They keep me in US away from home Chorus 2 THey say I violated DMCA From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Aug 10 12:59:34 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] "Escaping the Digital Dark Age" Message-ID: <20010810125934.O21764@zork.net> I'm writing an essay which discusses the "Dark Age" argument against DRM. I thought of writing a related essay entirely devoted to presenting that argument. Apparently the original source for the "Dark Age" argument is a piece on the obsolence of particular digital formats: Brand, Stewart. "Escaping the digital dark age." Library Journal (February 1, 1999), 124:2, 46-48. Does anybody have a copy of this, or access to a library which subscribes to _Library Journal_? -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 I'm looking for work: http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/resume.html From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Aug 10 13:53:49 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] "Escaping the Digital Dark Age" In-Reply-To: <20010810125934.O21764@zork.net> Message-ID: UC Berkeley library system has access to this journal; to avoid copyright annoyances, I will forward you a snapshot of the article text offlist in a moment. If anyone else wants it and can't get access to it, let me know. On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Seth David Schoen wrote: > I'm writing an essay which discusses the "Dark Age" argument against > DRM. I thought of writing a related essay entirely devoted to > presenting that argument. > > Apparently the original source for the "Dark Age" argument is a piece > on the obsolence of particular digital formats: > > Brand, Stewart. "Escaping the digital dark age." Library Journal > (February 1, 1999), 124:2, 46-48. > > Does anybody have a copy of this, or access to a library which > subscribes to _Library Journal_? > > -- -alexf From jays at panix.com Fri Aug 10 15:10:24 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [wwwac] E-books solving a problem consumers don't have (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:08:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Jay Sulzberger To: Bill Volk Cc: List Web405 , wwwac list Subject: Re: [wwwac] E-books solving a problem consumers don't have On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Bill Volk wrote: > Good article... > > http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/lifestyle/chi-0108090012aug09.story?c > oll=chi%2Dleisure%2Dhed > > So what do you all think? Can e-Books make it? > > I can remember that everyone thought PDA's were a bad idea after the Newton > bombed.... maybe that's the issue here ... Of course, books available world wide on the net at extraordinarily low cost will be a smash success. Already in physics and mathematics the process of moving to the net is well advanced. The old and now much too costly means of aggregating and distributing scholarly works, that is, the traditional journal only distributed in ink on paper form, cannot compete. http://xxx.lanl.gov http://front.math.ucdavis.edu http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/July01/ginsparg.archive.ws.html http://arXiv.org/blurb/pg01unesco.html http://www.baen.com/library/home.htm http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/30/opinion/30LESS.html http://www.openp2p.com/pub/a/p2p/2001/08/07/lessig.html http://www.freesklyarov.org http://emoglen.law.columbia.edu http://www.eff.org oo--JS. From sisgeek at yahoo.com Fri Aug 10 15:47:35 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [wwwac] E-books solving a problem consumers don't have (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010810224735.66992.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com> jay, as an aside: i tried to figure out amazon's sales ranking and found it impossible, due to lack of information concerning the algorithm - but one thing became clear, it is related to much more than sales. the more articles i read, like this, the sillier DMCA sounds. it seems to be boiling down to a hasty, unreasoned, and offensive digital grab by special interests. in the time honored and american fashion of "screw you jack, i got mine"! i'm reminded of the monkey who puts his hand through a knot hole to grab some "goodies", only to be clubbed to death, because he will not loosen his grip long enough to withdraw his hand and retreat! i suspect so will go some of the contests over the DMCA? --- Jay Sulzberger wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:08:03 -0400 (EDT) > From: Jay Sulzberger > To: Bill Volk > Cc: List Web405 , wwwac list > > Subject: Re: [wwwac] E-books solving a problem > consumers don't have > > > On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Bill Volk wrote: > > > Good article... > > > > > http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/lifestyle/chi-0108090012aug09.story?c > > oll=chi%2Dleisure%2Dhed > > > > So what do you all think? Can e-Books make it? > > > > I can remember that everyone thought PDA's were a > bad idea after the Newton > > bombed.... maybe that's the issue here ... > > Of course, books available world wide on the net at > extraordinarily low > cost will be a smash success. Already in physics > and mathematics the > process of moving to the net is well advanced. The > old and now much too > costly means of aggregating and distributing > scholarly works, that is, the > traditional journal only distributed in ink on paper > form, cannot compete. > > http://xxx.lanl.gov > http://front.math.ucdavis.edu > http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/July01/ginsparg.archive.ws.html > http://arXiv.org/blurb/pg01unesco.html > http://www.baen.com/library/home.htm > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/30/opinion/30LESS.html > http://www.openp2p.com/pub/a/p2p/2001/08/07/lessig.html > http://www.freesklyarov.org > http://emoglen.law.columbia.edu > http://www.eff.org > > oo--JS. > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From klp at well.com Fri Aug 10 13:57:38 2001 From: klp at well.com (Kevin L. Poulsen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] HAL attendees urged to resist global DMCA Message-ID: <01e801c121df$17b0f060$3300000a@organon> http://www.securityfocus.com/news/234 HAL attendees urged to resist global DMCA Hackers and security researchers at the international conference watch the Sklyarov Case, and cancel U.S. travel plans. by Ann Harrison August 10, 2001 2:52 PM PT ENSCHEDE, Netherlands--Wearing a shirt emblazoned with a four-letter word, which he hoped would repel the U.S. media, Eric Corley kicked of the Hackers At Large (HAL) 2001 conference today here by urging attendees to fight a European version of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). Corley, better known under the pen name Emmanuel Goldstein, was the first person prosecuted under the civil provisions of the DMCA when the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) sued him and his 2600 Magazine for posting the DeCSS program, which can be used to bypass the scrambling on DVD disks. From jono at microshaft.org Fri Aug 10 17:02:09 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] HAL attendees urged to resist global DMCA In-Reply-To: <01e801c121df$17b0f060$3300000a@organon>; from klp@well.com on Fri, Aug 10, 2001 at 04:57:38PM -0400 References: <01e801c121df$17b0f060$3300000a@organon> Message-ID: <20010810170209.I22838@networkcommand.com> WTO + WIPO = DMCA Fight Back! http://www.anti-dmca.org On 10-Aug-2001, Kevin L. Poulsen wrote: > > http://www.securityfocus.com/news/234 > > HAL attendees urged to resist global DMCA > > Hackers and security researchers at the international conference watch the > Sklyarov Case, and cancel U.S. travel plans. > > by Ann Harrison > August 10, 2001 2:52 PM PT > > ENSCHEDE, Netherlands--Wearing a shirt emblazoned with a four-letter word, > which he hoped would repel the U.S. media, Eric Corley kicked of the Hackers > At Large (HAL) 2001 conference today here by urging attendees to fight a > European version of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). > > Corley, better known under the pen name Emmanuel Goldstein, was the first > person prosecuted under the civil provisions of the DMCA when the Motion > Picture Association of America (MPAA) sued him and his 2600 Magazine for > posting the DeCSS program, which can be used to bypass the scrambling on DVD > disks. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From crism at maden.org Fri Aug 10 18:15:47 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Brunching Shuttlecocks on DeCSS/DMCA Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010810181520.00accd90@mail.maden.org> From steve at theStarport.org Fri Aug 10 19:52:31 2001 From: steve at theStarport.org (Stephen R. Savitzky) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Monday August 13th, San Jose In-Reply-To: Don Marti's message of "Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:55:51 -0700" References: <20010810085551.A30332@zgp.org> Message-ID: Don Marti writes: > Steve, > > > Make that a songbook and add a guitar, if you have 'em. I recommend > > _Rise Up Singing_. > > Are you bringing your guitar? And will you do your song about Dmitry? > If so, I'll bring extra copies of the lyrics. Yes. Of course, plus anything else I can think up over the weekend. Many thanks. This sounds like it's going to be fun! -- / Steve Savitzky \ 1997 Pegasus Award winner: best science song--+ \ / http://theStarport.com/people/steve/ V \ \ hacker/songwriter: http://theStarport.com/people/steve/Doc/Songs/ \_ Kids' page: MOVED ---> http://Interesting.Places.to/Browse/forKids/ _/ From crism at maden.org Fri Aug 10 22:11:37 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] David Lawrence on C|Net? Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010810220422.00ad51e0@mail.maden.org> Did anyone happen to catch "Online Tonight with David Lawrence" on C|Net Radio tonight? Lili von Schtupp (yes, really - lilivonschtupp.com) called me about the LPSF press release, and asked to arrange an interview with Rob Hansen, quoted in the release. I'd like to hear how it went, and they don't appear to archive the shows. Thanks, Chris -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From jays at panix.com Fri Aug 10 23:25:55 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interview with Dmitry Message-ID: http://archive.nytimes.com/2001/08/11/technology/11HACK.html oo--JS. From byoungvt at yahoo.com Sat Aug 11 02:38:26 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interview with Dmitry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010811093826.48168.qmail@web14504.mail.yahoo.com> Awesome, Interview, very positive, makes the FBI look bad!!! Excellent a "hacker" the news media loves!!! I hope it has some effect inside the court!!!! As long as we keep people/media focused on Who Dmitry is: -A Father -A Student -A Researcher He will be in good shape!!!! Keep it up Gang!!!!! BJY --- Jay Sulzberger wrote: > http://archive.nytimes.com/2001/08/11/technology/11HACK.html > > oo--JS. > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Sat Aug 11 11:40:21 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Minnesota event Message-ID: Minnesota protesters will rally Monday, August 13 from 4-6pm outside the library at Lagoon and Hennepin in solidarity with protesters around the nation and in support of Dmitry Sklyarov, free speech and fair use. Contact: Chris Moseng email: freedima@underwhelm.org web: http://www.underwhelm.org/freedima Location and map: http://www.phototour.minneapolis.mn.us/walker_library_nw.html Cell: 651-353-1513 Free Dmitry. Repeal the DMCA. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Sat Aug 11 17:30:31 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] David Lawrence on C|Net? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010810220422.00ad51e0@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <20010812003031.81528.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> chris, when u discover this info - please post? thxs --- "Christopher R. Maden" wrote: > Did anyone happen to catch "Online Tonight with > David Lawrence" on C|Net > Radio tonight? Lili von Schtupp (yes, really - > lilivonschtupp.com) called > me about the LPSF press release, and asked to > arrange an interview with Rob > Hansen, quoted in the release. I'd like to hear how > it went, and they > don't appear to archive the shows. > > Thanks, > Chris > -- > David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free > Dmitry! For great justice. > > === Freelance Text Nerd: http://crism.maden.org/ > === > PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 > F825 AFEC 58DA > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Sat Aug 11 18:10:11 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] E-books solving a problem consumers don't have Message-ID: <3B75D773.F9104E54@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> This article (link and excerpt below) moves into the area the publishers want us to go: a consumer interests analysis of information technology, incorporating a reassuringly "enlightened" recognition, in confronting the issues of the Sklyarov case, that something like an e-book is not necessarily sensible from a consumer interests standpoint anyway. It creates an artificial distinction between publishers and anybody else that has the ability to produce and broadcast information from their desktops, and constructs an occasion for the airing of the plight of publishers entirely in outmoded terms, rather than in terms of the facts that their industry is actually entering obsolescence, and that the "consumers" of e-books are actually fully-empowered information producers; that is, citizens in a free society. Rather than recognizing that the productive use of information is a fundamental right, it instead phrases the matter as a question of who can "control" e-books, and whether e-books are good for consumers. This is why it's so important to stress the fact that we are all not merely information consumers, and we never have been. The Sklyarov situation is not necessarily about the market success or failure of the e-book, but rather about creating the appearance that something is at stake that is more important than free speech, that presumably warrants the enactment of something like the Digital Millennium Copyright Anticircumvention Act. If we don't put across the free speech analysis, whether Sklyarov gets prosecuted or convicted will be of little concern to the progenitors of the DMCA, for whom the greatest concern is whether they manage to set the terms of how the impact of information technology on society will be analyzed. Even if Dmitry goes free and the DMCA is repealed, what counts most to his prosecutors is that people think that their motives in setting up TRIPS and the DMCA were valid. While this article blinks completely concerning the free speech issues, it explicitly presents the publishers' motives: the survival of their industry. Seth Johnson http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/lifestyle/chi-0108090012aug09.story?coll=chi%2Dleisure%2Dhed (Watch the word wrap) E-books solving a problem consumers don't have By David Streitfeld August 9, 2001 Excerpt: Richard DeGrandpre wrote "Digitopia" as a warning about the false promises of the wired world. Then it was published as an electronic book, and all his predictions came true. "Digitopia," issued by Random House in March, was never reviewed or promoted or, it seems, downloaded. "My book is just dead," said DeGrandpre, a psychologist. So are just about everyone else's e-books. The publishing world's attempts to turn electronic fiction and non-fiction into a lucrative revenue stream have yielded only a trickle of customers. Flaccid sales aside, publishers face even bigger challenges. Digitizing the printed page has put the very nature of books up for grabs, unleashing heated battles among writers, readers, librarians and technologists over who should control electronic books. "There's only one place e-books are popular: the courtroom," said publishing consultant Lorraine Shanley. This week in San Jose, Calif., a judge released on bail the defendant in the most explosive e-book case yet. A Russian graduate student named Dmitry Sklyarov was arrested three weeks ago for writing a program that breaks the encryption on e-books. Prosecutors say he was violating copyright law. Sklyarov's defenders say he was merely trying to give owners of e-books some of the same rights that owners of printed volumes have. The first person to be jailed under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, Sklyarov could receive a sentence of up to five years. "Arresting Sklyarov was insane, but there's an increasing tension between people who need and use information and those who want to control it," said Michael Mellin, a consultant who founded Random House's electronic publishing operation. From cycmn at nyct.net Sat Aug 11 18:56:08 2001 From: cycmn at nyct.net (J.E. Cripps) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] tie a blue ribbon (round the old oak tree) campaign In-Reply-To: <200108020941445.SM00361@mail.TheMail.com> Message-ID: <20010811215347.R49763-100000@bsd1.nyct.net> > if you think of something better, soon, fine- Great! A mirror-reversed slogan. In NYC, we do have great buttons, courtesy of one of the NYLUG members. JEC. P.S. My childhood safety training compels me to add that signs which distract drivers too much are hazardous. Consider you local traffic patterns. From kreizykid at hotmail.com Sat Aug 11 19:25:20 2001 From: kreizykid at hotmail.com (Josiah Draper) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re:HAL attendees urged to resist global DMCA References: Message-ID: Global DMCA.... this can not be happening. We have to stop this BS! -Josiah! From: "Kevin L. Poulsen" To: Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:57:38 -0400 Subject: [free-sklyarov] HAL attendees urged to resist global DMCA http://www.securityfocus.com/news/234 HAL attendees urged to resist global DMCA Hackers and security researchers at the international conference watch the Sklyarov Case, and cancel U.S. travel plans. by Ann Harrison August 10, 2001 2:52 PM PT ENSCHEDE, Netherlands--Wearing a shirt emblazoned with a four-letter word, which he hoped would repel the U.S. media, Eric Corley kicked of the Hackers At Large (HAL) 2001 conference today here by urging attendees to fight a European version of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). Corley, better known under the pen name Emmanuel Goldstein, was the first person prosecuted under the civil provisions of the DMCA when the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) sued him and his 2600 Magazine for posting the DeCSS program, which can be used to bypass the scrambling on DVD disks. --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:02:09 -0700 From: "Jon O ." To: "Kevin L. Poulsen" Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] HAL attendees urged to resist global DMCA Reply-To: "jono@networkcommand.com" WTO + WIPO = DMCA Fight Back! http://www.anti-dmca.org On 10-Aug-2001, Kevin L. Poulsen wrote: > > http://www.securityfocus.com/news/234 > > HAL attendees urged to resist global DMCA > > Hackers and security researchers at the international conference watch the > Sklyarov Case, and cancel U.S. travel plans. > > by Ann Harrison > August 10, 2001 2:52 PM PT > > ENSCHEDE, Netherlands--Wearing a shirt emblazoned with a four-letter word, > which he hoped would repel the U.S. media, Eric Corley kicked of the Hackers > At Large (HAL) 2001 conference today here by urging attendees to fight a > European version of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). > > Corley, better known under the pen name Emmanuel Goldstein, was the first > person prosecuted under the civil provisions of the DMCA when the Motion > Picture Association of America (MPAA) sued him and his 2600 Magazine for > posting the DeCSS program, which can be used to bypass the scrambling on DVD > disks. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov --__--__-- From tim at reinhouse.freeserve.co.uk Sun Aug 12 05:50:37 2001 From: tim at reinhouse.freeserve.co.uk (Timothy Baldwin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What else could Adobe do? and the next round of protests In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wednesday 25 July 2001 2:46 pm, adam@deprince.net wrote: > #include [snip] > So, to get Adobe to change its stance on the DMCA and contribute to > Dmitri's defense, one needs to put pressure on them via the only route > that matters to them. Their customers and investors. And their employees. Someone should see if there are any trade unions within Adobe. -- Timothy Baldwin Member of WYLUG, WACG, SWP, SA and GR 2nd year Computer Science, University of Leeds From gbroiles at well.com Sun Aug 12 10:35:04 2001 From: gbroiles at well.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fwd: young warrior courses Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010812103414.03ee9100@pop3.norton.antivirus> >Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 04:47:07 -0700 (PDT) >From: Morlock Elloi >Subject: young warrior courses >To: cypherpunks@lne.com > >15:26 2001-08-10 > >DMITRY SKLYAROV: CHIPS SERVED FOR LUNCH IN AMERICAN JAIL > >Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov is comparing the condition in American >jails >with the building group or young warrior courses. "One can't intimidate us >with >American jail!",- said Sklyarov. > > >From the time of his arrest on July 16, 2001 the programmer managed to > stay in >4 jails - in Las Vegas (Nevada), Oklahoma (Oklahoma), Santa Clair and finally >San Jose (California). In Sklyarov's words, the conditions of American >penitentiaries are similar to the works Sklyarov had to do in the building >group during his student summer holidays or they reminded young warrior >courses >in the army. Sklyarov surely said he had to adjust himself like for example >breakfast in the San Jose jail was served at 4 a.m. in the morning, lunch - at >11 a.m. and dinner - at 5 p.m. For his lunch Dmitry had chips (14 grams), 2 >pieces of bread with sausage, some other little things and something to drink. >"It is allowed to buy food with your own money if you have any", - Sklyarov >said. If you wish you can work in the jail getting 18 cents per hour, RIA >Novosti informed. > >There were 60 people in the cell of the Las Vegas jail where Dmitry Sklyarov >was: the people on trial and those who will have to face the court in the >future. The people were sleeping on two-level bunks, the attitude between the >people was sympathetic and understanding. One of Sklyarovms cell-mates >told him >the state was paying $300 daily for each person in jail. > >Sklyarov is optimistic about the things that happened to him, he is still >hopeful he will soon see his family. The office of the Russian Consulate >General in San Francisco renders him some help in this respect. The session >devoted to Dmitry Sklyarovms pending case will take place August 23 in San >Jose. The courtms decision will show if the case is over or is going to >develop. Dmitry Sklyarov was released on bail with an obligation not to leave >the territory of North California until there is the final decision made >on his >case. He visited the Russian Federation Consulate General in San Francisco on >Thursday. Sklyarov arrived at the office with 2 lawyers. They warned their >client to withhold any comments to the media until the court session takes >place August 23. > >http://english.pravda.ru/main/2001/08/10/12241.html > > >===== >end >(of original message) > >Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: >Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com/ -- Greg Broiles gbroiles@well.com "We have found and closed the thing you watch us with." -- New Delhi street kids From admin at seattle-chat.com Sun Aug 12 11:15:53 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What else could Adobe do? and the next round of protests In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You might check washtech.org that's the local trade union recruiting microsofty's. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Timothy Baldwin Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 5:51 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] What else could Adobe do? and the next round of protests On Wednesday 25 July 2001 2:46 pm, adam@deprince.net wrote: > #include [snip] > So, to get Adobe to change its stance on the DMCA and contribute to > Dmitri's defense, one needs to put pressure on them via the only route > that matters to them. Their customers and investors. And their employees. Someone should see if there are any trade unions within Adobe. -- Timothy Baldwin Member of WYLUG, WACG, SWP, SA and GR 2nd year Computer Science, University of Leeds _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From lgorkin1 at nyc.rr.com Sun Aug 12 11:52:11 2001 From: lgorkin1 at nyc.rr.com (Leonid Gorkin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NYC action on Monday, August 13 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010812103414.03ee9100@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010812103414.03ee9100@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <01081214521100.03012@shire> A demonstration calling to drop all the charges against Dmirty Sklyarov and to repel the DMCA will take place on Monday, August 13 in front of New York public library, 41st street & 5th avenue, Manhattan. We are going to distribute flyers, talk to the people explaining the situation and urge them to join the EFF letter writing campaign. Demonstration will start at 12 noon and expected to continue for about one hour. Please bring your signs. Our main messages are "Let Dmitry go home", "Down with the DMCA". If you can, print some flyers. For more information: NY Fair Use group: http://www.nyfairuse.org EFF: http://www.eff.org Free Sklyarov campaign: http://www.freesklyarov.org Pictures from the previous protests: http://www.nylug.org/pictures/index.shtml?owner.dmca2001protest.set1 http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/freedmitry/ Join us of Monday! From jays at panix.com Sun Aug 12 16:01:27 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Journal Price Overhang, or, Why Jail Sklyarov? Message-ID: http://www.englib.cornell.edu/displays/stickershock oo--JS. From jays at panix.com Sun Aug 12 21:21:23 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Conspiracy to make backups difficult. Message-ID: http://www.lemuria.org/decss/hal2001.html oo--JS. From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Sun Aug 12 22:35:33 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Ballad of Dima Sklyarov, ver1.0beta1 Message-ID: Version 1.0beta1 of "The Ballad of Dima Sklyarov" has been posted at: http://csua.berkeley.edu/~alexf/sklyarov/ballad.html This is a "ballad" thrown together over the past week by 3 of us, to the tune of Greensleeves (British folk, IIRC). We will try to arrange for this to be performed at San Jose's candlelight vigil on Monday; the other sites are more than welcome to use it for theirs if they find someone willing to perform... Print out the lyrics and bring them with you to your event if you think you might want to perform this =) We also posted a rough MIDI that shows the actual tune the lyrics are intended for, as well as a version of the lyrics with the stress patterns marked up. If someone who sings better than us (read: anyone) wants to make a voice recording with the music (mp3 or ogg or something like that), we'll gladly post that as well. A PNG of the sheet music has been posted -- the actual tune shown is just 1 "non-chorus" stanza followed by 1 "chorus" stanza. It should be a simple exercise to look at the lyrics (and/or MIDI) and figure out the pattern of non-chorus/chorus tunes that need to be played... And, of course, as per "beta1" in the version number, this version is VERY rough and a work-in-progress since the story is far from over, so constructive criticism is always welcome. -- -alexf From jays at panix.com Sun Aug 12 22:46:32 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The DMCA will help responsible publishers and universities deal with just such rogue hacker mathematical free-bootin' samizdatin' Python Cordilleran Ms. Pac-Manic destroyers of Intellectual Property! Message-ID: http://www.mathematik.uni-bielefeld.de/~rehmann/bericht-eng.html http://www.econ.ucsb.edu/~tedb/Journals/birman.ps http://www.econ.ucsb.edu/~tedb/Journals/apt.ps http://www.createchange.org oo--JS. From jono at microshaft.org Sun Aug 12 23:01:27 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The DMCA will help responsible publishers and universities deal with just such rogue hacker mathematical free-bootin' samizdatin' Python Cordilleran Ms. Pac-Manic destroyers of Intellectual Property! In-Reply-To: ; from jays@panix.com on Mon, Aug 13, 2001 at 01:46:32AM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010812230127.X31918@networkcommand.com> SPARC: Scientists Declaring Independence: http://www.arl.org/sparc/DI/ Open Archives Initiative: http://www.openarchives.org/ Literature.org: http://www.literature.org/ Digital Library Federation: http://www.diglib.org/dlfhomepage.htm Has someone contacted these groups to ask for support or a statement? Would it be a good idea? On 13-Aug-2001, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > http://www.mathematik.uni-bielefeld.de/~rehmann/bericht-eng.html > http://www.econ.ucsb.edu/~tedb/Journals/birman.ps > http://www.econ.ucsb.edu/~tedb/Journals/apt.ps > http://www.createchange.org > > oo--JS. > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From kmself at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 12 23:26:46 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] SF: KQED Forum to feature DMCA/Sklyarov, Mon 13 Aug, 9am Message-ID: <20010812232646.A16908@navel.introspect> Monday morning's Forum public-affairs call-in program on KQED FM, 88.5 FM in San Francisco (NPR affiliate) is will address copyright protection and freedom of speech issues at stake in the current case against Dmitry. Show time is Monday, August 13, 2001, 9am PDT. Guests include Robin Gross, Staff Attorney EFF; Allan Adler, Vice President of Governmental Affairs withthe Association of American Publishers; Michael Letts, Associate Editor of eBooks, Seybold Report (hmm, we're one against two). Host is Cynthia Gorney. The call in number is toll-free at 866-SF-FORUM (866-733-6786) or 415-863-2476. KQED streams online in RealPlayer and Windows Media Player formats at: http://www.kqed.org/streamingfiles/kqed_real.ram http://www.kqed.org/streamingfiles/kqed_wmp.asx More information: http://www.kqed.org/radio/forum/index.html Addler's had some awefully interesting quotes mentioned recently in this list. His letter quoted by Declan McCullagh was posted to this list, I'd recommend reviewing it. Archived: http://zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/2001-August/003206.html Rally the troops! -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010812/503eb75f/attachment.pgp From kyhwana at world-net.co.nz Mon Aug 13 00:32:27 2001 From: kyhwana at world-net.co.nz (Daniel Richards) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" Message-ID: <3B782B4B.29325.E8C8997@localhost> Short and simple. Has anyone written another program that will "process" adobe's ebooks into pdf/html/txt/etc? Is anyone writing one? (you'd probably want to publish it anonymously, heh) If anyone knows or is doing such a thing, could you please email me (Off list, use PGP) http://www.freesklyarov.org - Free Dmitry! PGP Pub key: http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/DanielRPubKey.asc Fingerprint: 416D 4027 D635 AF51 F2BF 60DF 4D94 F7A0 9893 2848 From jays at panix.com Mon Aug 13 07:23:38 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The DMCA directly affects every home computer user. Message-ID: http://archive.nytimes.com/2001/08/13/technology/ebusiness/13NECO.html?0813inside oo--JS. From jono at microshaft.org Mon Aug 13 10:00:16 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Anti-DMCA Index -- Libraries, Ebooks and the DMCA Message-ID: <20010813100016.A39504@networkcommand.com> The Anti-DMCA Index ___________________ August 2001 ___________________________________________________________ The most recent version of this document can be found here: http://www.anti-dmca.org/dmca-index.html ___________________________________________________________ 1. Amount Cornell University Library pays for subscription to "Journal of Applied Polymer Science": $12,495.00 2. Amount charged to University Libraries for subscription to "Journal of Economic Studies": $13.40/page 3. Number of people who find the $13.40 per page ironic: 3 out of 4 4. Number of Project Gutenberg Etexts converted by voluteers: 3,551 5. Current "Cost" per Etext based on 3,481 texts: $2.87 per text 6. Number of Scientists worldwide boycotting Corporate Science Journals beginning September 2001: 26,000 7. Number of college and research institutions "Declaring Independence" by publishing themselves: 200 8. Number of days DMCA arrestee Dmitry Sklyarov spent in jail: 13 9. Number of jails he spent them in: 4 10. Amount charged to taxpayers for those 13 days: $4,000 11. Window of time Microsoft and the American Association of Publishers (AAP) can engage in their cooperative Internet surveillance program: 24x7x365 12. Number of AAP members who apparently support the Internet surveillance program: 250 13. Number of "companies" which control the DVD Copy Control Association (DVD CCA): 4 14. Number of Executive Directors who appear to control the DVD Copy Control Association: 1 15. Amount one company charges for eBook encryption security: $3,000 16. Number of letters one must rotate the alphabet to decrypt that book: 13 (ROT-13) 17. Amount recovered in recent "software raid" conducted by BSA.org against Minneapolis Company: $260,000 18. Number of disgruntled employees who may report you to the BSA resulting in a "software raid.": 1 19. Number of Irish software companies currently being sued by BSA.org: 7 20. Companies BSA represents in those cases: Adobe, Autodesk, Macromedia, Microsoft and Symantec 21. Number of cities included in July 2001 BSA "Truce" Campaign: 5 22. Number of states which experienced Raids conducted by FBI on July 24 commended by BSA: 9 23. Number of proported jobs lost from software piracy in study conducted by BSA.org: 109,000 24. Amount an eBook customer may be fined for a backup not permited by the Publisher: $250,000 25. Amount of time that customer might spend in jail: 5 years 26. Number of restrictions placed on "Alice in Wonderland" (public domain) eBook: 5 27. Maximum penalty for reading "Alice in Wonderland" aloud (possible DMCA violation): 5 years jail 28. Maximum penalty for having a "pirate" copy of "Planet of the Apes": 10 years jail/$2M fine 29. Average sentence for commiting Rape: 5 years _________________________________________________________________________________ Information provided by anti-dmca.org _________________________________________________________________________________ Please feel free to email, post, print, etc. this information. Additions, contributions and comments are welcome here: http://www.anti-dmca.org/dmca-index.html This index actually contains a scrambled (stenanographically hidden) version of DeCSS. However, we can't find the key so we're not quite sure it's there either. Harper's Interactive Index http://harpers.org/harpers-index/ __________________________________________________________________________________ Sources 1. http://www.englib.cornell.edu/displays/stickershock/car.htm http://www.math.berkeley.edu/~kirby/journals.html#App1 2. http://www.econ.ucsb.edu/~tedb/jppage.htm 3. Quick and simple poll 4. http://promo.net/pg/nl/0105.html 5. http://promo.net/pg/nl/0105.html 6. http://www.publiclibraryofscience.org/ http://www.genomeweb.com/articles/view-article.asp?Article=200172219199 7. http://www.arl.org/sparc/DI/ http://www.createchange.org/ 8. http://www.fresklyarov.org 9. http://english.pravda.ru/main/2001/08/10/12241.html 10. Some multiplication 11. http://www.microsoft.com/ebooks/das/antipiracy.asp 12. http://www.microsoft.com/ebooks/das/antipiracy.asp 13. http://www.lemuria.org/decss/hal2001.html 14. http://www.lemuria.org/decss/hal2001.html 15. http://www.download.ru/defcon.ppt 16. http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/~guckes/rot13/ 17. http://www.bsa.org/usa/press/newsreleases//2001-08-06.680.phtml 18. http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2799089,00.html 19. http://www.bsa.org/ireland/press/newsreleases//2001-08-02.682.phtml 20. http://www.bsa.org/ireland/press/newsreleases//2001-08-02.682.phtml 21. http://www.bsatruce.com/us/indexjuly2001.phtml 22. http://new.bsa.org/usa/press/newsreleases//2001-07-25.678.phtml 23. http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/epub/faqs.asp 24. http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/epub/faqs.asp 25. http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/epub/faqs.asp 26. http://www.pigdogs.org/art/adobe.html 27. http://eon.law.harvard.edu/openlaw/DVD/dvd-discuss-faq.html#ss2.4.6 28. http://www.politechbot.com/p-02293.html 29. http://www.sharon-herald.com/localnews/recentnews/0005/ln050400h.html _____________________________________________________________________________________ Disclaimer: By reading, viewing or disseminating this information you agree to hold the creators harmless. This information is protected by the US Constitution. All other contracts are null and void. License: You may do anything you want with this information as long as it is reproduced in it's entirety. _____________________________________________________________________________________ ----- End forwarded message ----- ----- End forwarded message ----- From crism at maden.org Mon Aug 13 10:07:40 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Anti-DMCA Index -- Libraries, Ebooks and the DMCA In-Reply-To: <20010813100016.A39504@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010813100551.00a54c00@mail.maden.org> At 10:00 13-08-2001, Jon O . wrote: >27. Maximum penalty for reading "Alice in Wonderland" aloud (possible DMCA >violation): 5 years jail In the interest of accuracy: this is the penalty for using the "read aloud" feature of the Adobe Acrobat eBook Reader. The legal restriction was (is?) very poorly worded, but what it *means*, according to both Adobe and its opponents, is that the "read aloud" text-to-speech feature is disabled. It does not, and never did, mean that a human can not read the text of the work aloud in the ordinarily-permitted ways (i.e., not for paid public performance in the case of copyrighted work). -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From jono at microshaft.org Mon Aug 13 10:23:38 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Anti-DMCA Index -- Libraries, Ebooks and the DMCA In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010813100551.00a54c00@mail.maden.org>; from crism@maden.org on Mon, Aug 13, 2001 at 10:07:40AM -0700 References: <20010813100016.A39504@networkcommand.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010813100551.00a54c00@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <20010813102338.D39504@networkcommand.com> On 13-Aug-2001, Christopher R. Maden wrote: > At 10:00 13-08-2001, Jon O . wrote: > >27. Maximum penalty for reading "Alice in Wonderland" aloud (possible DMCA > >violation): 5 years jail > > In the interest of accuracy: this is the penalty for using the "read aloud" > feature of the Adobe Acrobat eBook Reader. The legal restriction was (is?) > very poorly worded, but what it *means*, according to both Adobe and its > opponents, is that the "read aloud" text-to-speech feature is disabled. It > does not, and never did, mean that a human can not read the text of the > work aloud in the ordinarily-permitted ways (i.e., not for paid public > performance in the case of copyrighted work). I think you are right about this. However, to create the same level of strategic ambiguity present in the law, the above wording was chosen ;)... > > -crism > -- > David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. > > === Freelance Text Nerd: === > PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From kfoss at planetpdf.com Mon Aug 13 10:45:13 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Anti-DMCA Index -- Libraries, Ebooks and the DMCA In-Reply-To: <20010813102338.D39504@networkcommand.com> References: <20010813100016.A39504@networkcommand.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010813100551.00a54c00@mail.maden.org> <20010813102338.D39504@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: At 10:23 AM -0700 8/13/01, Jon O . wrote: >I think you are right about this. Just to confirm -- he is indeed correct. While the term "Read Aloud" is one of the eBook permissions that a publisher can choose, the meaning is not what it seems. There's also a technological component involved as to whether a user can make use of "Read Aloud" even when permission is enabled. rgds ~ Kurt ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network -- From jono at microshaft.org Mon Aug 13 11:13:57 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Anti-DMCA Index -- Libraries, Ebooks and the DMCA In-Reply-To: ; from kfoss@planetpdf.com on Mon, Aug 13, 2001 at 12:45:13PM -0500 References: <20010813100016.A39504@networkcommand.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010813100551.00a54c00@mail.maden.org> <20010813102338.D39504@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010813111357.A39866@networkcommand.com> On 13-Aug-2001, Kurt Foss wrote: > At 10:23 AM -0700 8/13/01, Jon O . wrote: > >I think you are right about this. > > Just to confirm -- he is indeed correct. While the term "Read Aloud" > is one of the eBook permissions that a publisher can choose, the > meaning is not what it seems. There's also a technological component > involved as to whether a user can make use of "Read Aloud" even when > permission is enabled. > Yes, and it seems very interesting that the Gutenberg Project who converted the work allows for such restrictions to be placed on their works. I wonder if a modification to the Gutenberg "Terms of Use" or something would help, stating that use of this text is permitted so long as other restrictions are not applied...? From mkbilbo at cdcla.com Mon Aug 13 11:47:42 2001 From: mkbilbo at cdcla.com (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Anti-DMCA Index -- Libraries, Ebooks and the DMCA References: <20010813100016.A39504@networkcommand.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010813100551.00a54c00@mail.maden.org> <20010813102338.D39504@networkcommand.com> <20010813111357.A39866@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <3B7820CE.4000203@cdcla.com> Jon O . wrote: > > > >On 13-Aug-2001, Kurt Foss wrote: > >>At 10:23 AM -0700 8/13/01, Jon O . wrote: >> >>>I think you are right about this. >>> >>Just to confirm -- he is indeed correct. While the term "Read Aloud" >>is one of the eBook permissions that a publisher can choose, the >>meaning is not what it seems. There's also a technological component >>involved as to whether a user can make use of "Read Aloud" even when >>permission is enabled. >> > >Yes, and it seems very interesting that the Gutenberg Project who >converted the work allows for such restrictions to be placed on their >works. I wonder if a modification to the Gutenberg "Terms of Use" or >something would help, stating that use of this text is permitted >so long as other restrictions are not applied...? > I still want to knew where anybody gets off putting restrictions of ANY kind on a public domain work. I question whether it's legal to do so. It's certainly stupid. Anybody at all can distribute the work in whatever form they want which means the restricted version will lose money. Mark From kmself at ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 13 11:51:47 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Anti-DMCA Index -- Libraries, Ebooks and the DMCA In-Reply-To: <20010813111357.A39866@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Mon, Aug 13, 2001 at 11:13:57AM -0700 References: <20010813100016.A39504@networkcommand.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010813100551.00a54c00@mail.maden.org> <20010813102338.D39504@networkcommand.com> <20010813111357.A39866@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010813115147.E26282@navel.introspect> on Mon, Aug 13, 2001 at 11:13:57AM -0700, Jon O . (jono@microshaft.org) wrote: > > > > > On 13-Aug-2001, Kurt Foss wrote: > > At 10:23 AM -0700 8/13/01, Jon O . wrote: > > >I think you are right about this. > > > > Just to confirm -- he is indeed correct. While the term "Read Aloud" > > is one of the eBook permissions that a publisher can choose, the > > meaning is not what it seems. There's also a technological component > > involved as to whether a user can make use of "Read Aloud" even when > > permission is enabled. > > > > Yes, and it seems very interesting that the Gutenberg Project who > converted the work allows for such restrictions to be placed on their > works. I wonder if a modification to the Gutenberg "Terms of Use" or > something would help, stating that use of this text is permitted so > long as other restrictions are not applied...? As (most) Gutenberg Project works are public domain, no restrictions may be placed on them, including the restriction not to place restrictions (technical or legal) on distributions of the same (or derived) works. GP could apply terms as you suggest to the work as a whole including the GP material added to the work -- this creates a new (derived) work, a component of which GP has copyright to. Public domain is just that: no one owns the work, no one can specify rights of others. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010813/0b9508d1/attachment.pgp From crism at maden.org Mon Aug 13 11:57:27 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Anti-DMCA Index -- Libraries, Ebooks and the DMCA In-Reply-To: <3B7820CE.4000203@cdcla.com> References: <20010813100016.A39504@networkcommand.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010813100551.00a54c00@mail.maden.org> <20010813102338.D39504@networkcommand.com> <20010813111357.A39866@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010813115221.00a6c960@mail.maden.org> At 11:47 13-08-2001, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: >I still want to knew where anybody gets off putting restrictions of ANY >kind on a public domain work. Let's run through this again: Adobe allows publishers to explicitly enable or disable certain features. When Adobe adds a new feature to the Reader, the default is always to disable the feature, because the publishers of older books can't have known about it. The "read aloud" feature was one such feature. If an Adobe eBook doesn't explicitly enable "read aloud", then it is disabled. The preparer of _Alice in Wonderland_ did not explicitly enable the "read aloud" feature, either because he was forgetful or because the book predated the feature (I forget which). Therefore, the Reader did not enable the "read aloud" feature - i.e., the feature was disabled. To make things worse, the notice of the disabled feature was very badly worded. ("This book can not be read aloud.") One can certainly argue that Adobe's feature system is aggressively controlling, but the whole "read aloud" fiasco is not nearly as nefarious as it seemed at first. Attacking it is setting up a strawman; better, I think, to stay focused on the real issues. -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From mkbilbo at cdcla.com Mon Aug 13 12:17:17 2001 From: mkbilbo at cdcla.com (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Anti-DMCA Index -- Libraries, Ebooks and the DMCA References: <20010813100016.A39504@networkcommand.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010813100551.00a54c00@mail.maden.org> <20010813102338.D39504@networkcommand.com> <20010813111357.A39866@networkcommand.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010813115221.00a6c960@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <3B7827BD.4050700@cdcla.com> Christopher R. Maden wrote: > One can certainly argue that Adobe's feature system is aggressively > controlling, but the whole "read aloud" fiasco is not nearly as > nefarious as it seemed at first. Attacking it is setting up a > strawman; better, I think, to stay focused on the real issues. I disagree that this is not an issue. Yes, the "read aloud" thing wasn't what people thought and isn't the horror first believed. However, NOBODY can restrict a public domain work. Period. I want that point made very, very clear to these corporations. They not only want "fair use" to be eradicated but are working on "public domain" as well. Mark From jono at microshaft.org Mon Aug 13 12:31:55 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Anti-DMCA Index -- Libraries, Ebooks and the DMCA In-Reply-To: <20010813115147.E26282@navel.introspect>; from kmself@ix.netcom.com on Mon, Aug 13, 2001 at 11:51:47AM -0700 References: <20010813100016.A39504@networkcommand.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010813100551.00a54c00@mail.maden.org> <20010813102338.D39504@networkcommand.com> <20010813111357.A39866@networkcommand.com> <20010813115147.E26282@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <20010813123155.E39866@networkcommand.com> On 13-Aug-2001, Karsten M. Self wrote: > on Mon, Aug 13, 2001 at 11:13:57AM -0700, Jon O . (jono@microshaft.org) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On 13-Aug-2001, Kurt Foss wrote: > > > At 10:23 AM -0700 8/13/01, Jon O . wrote: > > > >I think you are right about this. > > > > > > Just to confirm -- he is indeed correct. While the term "Read Aloud" > > > is one of the eBook permissions that a publisher can choose, the > > > meaning is not what it seems. There's also a technological component > > > involved as to whether a user can make use of "Read Aloud" even when > > > permission is enabled. > > > > > > > Yes, and it seems very interesting that the Gutenberg Project who > > converted the work allows for such restrictions to be placed on their > > works. I wonder if a modification to the Gutenberg "Terms of Use" or > > something would help, stating that use of this text is permitted so > > long as other restrictions are not applied...? > > As (most) Gutenberg Project works are public domain, no restrictions may > be placed on them, including the restriction not to place restrictions > (technical or legal) on distributions of the same (or derived) works. > > GP could apply terms as you suggest to the work as a whole including the > GP material added to the work -- this creates a new (derived) work, a > component of which GP has copyright to. > > Public domain is just that: no one owns the work, no one can specify > rights of others. I totally agree, but this screen shots proves otherwise: http://www.pigdogs.org/art/adobe.html It's also the source referenced in the Index. So these corpotations seem to think if you take a GP book, wrap it in eB00k format, suddenly you have all kinds of rights and restrictions you can place on the book. Look at the verbage in the link above: VolumeOne (Ironic?) is grateful to PG for its contribution to this work. VolumeOne holds harmless and indemnifies PG of any liability arising from the use of their text in this printed embodiment... Now, that's like me saying, "thanks for to use of this freeway. I won't sue those who built it if I get in a wreck." How can they even attempt to do such a thing? > > -- > Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ > What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal > http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org > Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org > Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html From rsperberg at yahoo.com Mon Aug 13 13:29:29 2001 From: rsperberg at yahoo.com (Roger Sperberg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NYT on DMCA "Software Double Bind" Message-ID: Amy Harmon of the New York Times wrote a long, thoughtful column in the Business Day section of today's paper, called "Software Double Bind." (The link: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/13/technology/ebusiness/13NECO.html) Here's the first paragraph: "Call it the digital copyright equivalent of having your cake but not being able to eat it. The case of Dmitri Sklyarov, a Russian computer programmer arrested last month in Las Vegas, is drawing attention to a double bind in the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, a 1998 law that some legal experts say extends rights to consumers even as it effectively prevents them from exercising those rights." And here's the last paragraph: "'The inequity is of greatest concern to the law where there's a constitutional interest at stake,' said Pamela Samuelson, co-director of the Center for Law and Technology at the University of California at Berkeley. 'If there is a constitutional-based interest in fair use, it shouldn't just be someone with a Ph.D. in computer science who can circumvent an access control ? just like you can't say people who own property can vote, but poor people can't.' " And there's a lot in-between worth reading. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010813/63782989/attachment.htm From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Aug 13 13:40:35 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NYT on DMCA "Software Double Bind" In-Reply-To: ; from rsperberg@yahoo.com on Mon, Aug 13, 2001 at 04:29:29PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010813134035.X7688@zork.net> Roger Sperberg writes: > Amy Harmon of the New York Times wrote a long, thoughtful column in > the Business Day section of today's paper, called "Software Double > Bind." > > (The link: > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/13/technology/ebusiness/13NECO.html) > > Here's the first paragraph: > > "Call it the digital copyright equivalent of having your cake but not > being able to eat it. The case of Dmitri Sklyarov, a Russian computer > programmer arrested last month in Las Vegas, is drawing attention to > a double bind in the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, a 1998 law > that some legal experts say extends rights to consumers even as it > effectively prevents them from exercising those rights." Very nice, although it contains the "anticircumvention device" typo. (Circumvention device, anticircumvention law.) -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Aug 13 13:43:27 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [rah@shipwright.com: Russian Programmer Not Eager to be Celebrity (was Re: GigaLaw.com Daily News, August 13, 2001)] Message-ID: <20010813134327.Y7688@zork.net> More interviews: ----- Forwarded message from "R. A. Hettinga" ----- Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 10:32:54 -0400 To: Digital Bearer Settlement List , dcsb@ai.mit.edu, cryptography@wasabisystems.com From: "R. A. Hettinga" Subject: Russian Programmer Not Eager to be Celebrity (was Re: GigaLaw.com Daily News, August 13, 2001) At 5:40 AM -0600 on 8/13/01, GigaLaw.com wrote: > Russian Programmer Not Eager to be Celebrity > Dmitry Sklyarov, the Russian programmer whose arrest last month > became a rallying cry for the international digerati, is a reluctant > celebrity. Released on bail on charges of violating a controversial > copyright law, the 26-year-old graduate student was taken aback to learn > he had become a poster child for free speech, with a world-spanning > network of supporters. > Read the article: SiliconValley.com @ > http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/svfront/sklyar081101.htm -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo@wasabisystems.com ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe I'm looking for work: http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/resume.html From jeme at brelin.net Mon Aug 13 14:15:48 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Anti-DMCA Index -- Libraries, Ebooks and the DMCA In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010813115221.00a6c960@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Aug 2001, Christopher R. Maden wrote: > Adobe allows publishers to explicitly enable or disable certain features. [snip] > Therefore, the Reader did not enable the "read aloud" feature - i.e., the > feature was disabled. > > To make things worse, the notice of the disabled feature was very badly > worded. ("This book can not be read aloud.") > > One can certainly argue that Adobe's feature system is aggressively > controlling, but the whole "read aloud" fiasco is not nearly as > nefarious as it seemed at first. Attacking it is setting up a > strawman; better, I think, to stay focused on the real issues. I disagree. One only has to look at the features that can be enabled or disabled BY PUBLISHERS (not authors... not even COPYRIGHT HOLDERS, whatever manner of beast that may be) to notice that they're all inherent rights of fair use. Let's look at them. * No text selections can be copied from this book to the clipboard. Clearly this is an infringement of my fair use rights. Copying of text selection is protected free speech except in some cases based on INTENT AND USE of the copied selection. This makes no such distinction and is, therefore, impinging. * No printing is permitted of this book. Media- and space-shifting have both been recognized as non-infringing copying after first sale. * This book cannot be lent or given to anyone else. Clearly I have the right to loan something I own to someone else. * This book cannot be given to someone else. More absurdity. If I own a thing, I can give it away... except in some small cases of national security. Surely no novel deserves such protection. * This book cannot be read aloud. Yes, I know it's discussing a FEATURE of the eBook reader, but it's still absolutely absurd. What right does the PUBLISHER have to hinder my ability to use accessibility software? This is clearly discrminatory. Would it be possible to bring a suit against Adobe under the Americans With Disabilities Act? This feature is designed to prevent access by the blind... except in a possible "enhanced" volue that will surely cost more. I understand the technical implications and difficulties inherent in distributing digital media, enforcing copyright, and maintaining free speech. However, if there is a trade-off to be made, it is either the enforcement of copyright or the distribution of digital media... Free speech is by far the more sacred of the three. Our choices as a society remain: Digital media Enforcable copyright Free speech Pick two. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jaed at jaedworks.com Mon Aug 13 12:17:27 2001 From: jaed at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Anti-DMCA Index -- Libraries, Ebooks and the DMCA In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010813115221.00a6c960@mail.maden.org> References: <3B7820CE.4000203@cdcla.com> <20010813100016.A39504@networkcommand.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010813100551.00a54c00@mail.maden.org> <20010813102338.D39504@networkcommand.com> <20010813111357.A39866@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: At 11:57 AM -0700 8/13/2001, Christopher R. Maden wrote: >The preparer of _Alice in Wonderland_ did not explicitly enable the "read >aloud" feature, either because he was forgetful or because the book >predated the feature (I forget which). >[...] >One can certainly argue that Adobe's feature system is aggressively >controlling, but the whole "read aloud" fiasco is not nearly as nefarious >as it seemed at first. Attacking it is setting up a strawman; better, I >think, to stay focused on the real issues. While what you say is true, I do think there are issues in that incident that are relevant here. Just as one example, as far as I can tell, if I were to write and put up on the web a program to re-enable or "fix" that feature, so that people could have the computer read Alice in Wonderland to them, I'd face potential criminal liability under the DMCA. This is, surely, a worthy illustration of just how crazed the DMCA is. -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed@jaedworks.com http://www.jaedworks.com From rsperberg at yahoo.com Mon Aug 13 14:08:49 2001 From: rsperberg at yahoo.com (Roger Sperberg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Anti-DMCA Index -- Libraries, Ebooks and the DMCA Message-ID: Chris Maden wrote: >When Adobe adds a new feature to the Reader, the default is always to disable the feature, >because the publishers of older books can't have known about it. >The 'read aloud' feature was one such feature. If an Adobe eBook doesn't explicitly enable 'read >aloud,' then it is disabled." This is how I understood Adobe did this, and I have written and said as much, but Tom Diaz of Adobe last week wrote to The eBook Community that this feature initially was disabled (or "off") for all encrypted titles and enabled for all unencrypted titles. He added: "We also repackaged all then-exising eBooks so that in subsequent sales and downloads, the setting reflected the publishers' preferences. So in effect the feature ended up being disallowed for most books, although there are a couple of major publishers who permit it." In the case of "Alice," Diaz explained in an earlier post to the same Yahoo group: "Due to an operator error, this right was also disabled for 'Alice in Wonderland,' but we corrected that mistake as soon as it was brought to our attention. The accident happened in December 2000 and was corrected by a couple of weeks later. " -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010813/db41efc3/attachment.html From jono at microshaft.org Mon Aug 13 14:19:38 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Anti-DMCA Index -- Libraries, Ebooks and the DMCA In-Reply-To: ; from rsperberg@yahoo.com on Mon, Aug 13, 2001 at 05:08:49PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010813141938.E40446@networkcommand.com> On 13-Aug-2001, Roger Sperberg wrote: > Chris Maden wrote: > >When Adobe adds a new feature to the Reader, the default is always to > disable the feature, > >because the publishers of older books can't have known about it. > > >The 'read aloud' feature was one such feature. If an Adobe eBook doesn't > explicitly enable 'read > >aloud,' then it is disabled." > > > > This is how I understood Adobe did this, and I have written and said as > much, but Tom Diaz of Adobe last week wrote to The eBook Community that this > feature initially was disabled (or "off") for all encrypted titles and > enabled for all unencrypted titles. He added: "We also repackaged all > then-exising eBooks so that in subsequent sales and downloads, the setting > reflected the publishers' preferences. So in effect the feature ended up > being disallowed for most books, although there are a couple of major > publishers who permit it." > > In the case of "Alice," Diaz explained in an earlier post to the same Yahoo > group: "Due to an operator error, this right was also disabled for 'Alice in > Wonderland,' but we corrected that mistake as soon as it was brought to our > attention. The accident happened in December 2000 and > was corrected by a couple of weeks later. " > Diaz has no right to tell me what I can do with a Public Domain ebook. Project Gutenberg should review its licensing and take control back from the greedy corporations attempting to usurp the public's Intellectual Rights. From rsperberg at yahoo.com Mon Aug 13 14:32:26 2001 From: rsperberg at yahoo.com (Roger Sperberg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Anti-DMCA Index -- Libraries, Ebooks and the DMCA In-Reply-To: <20010813141938.E40446@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: On 13-Aug-2001, Jon O. wrote: >Diaz has no right to tell me what I can do with a Public Domain ebook. >Project Gutenberg should review its licensing and take control back >from the greedy corporations attempting to usurp the public's >Intellectual Rights. Since Adobe is not the publisher of any of the titles it distributes, it's not clear to me why you think it is Adobe telling you what you may or may not do with a public-domain e-book. The permissions are set by the publisher. Anyone may take a public domain title and publish it. Neither Project Gutenberg nor anyone else can restrict them in any way -- since it's public domain, PG doesn't own that work. No one owns it. And the only thing PG could do is specify conditions under which the publisher uses the licensed Project Gutenberg trademark. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From rsperberg at yahoo.com Mon Aug 13 14:32:25 2001 From: rsperberg at yahoo.com (Roger Sperberg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Anti-DMCA Index -- Libraries, Ebooks andthe DMCA Message-ID: Jeme A. Brelin wrote: >* This book cannot be read aloud. >Yes, I know it's discussing a FEATURE of the eBook reader, but it's still >absolutely absurd. What right does the PUBLISHER have to hinder my >ability to use accessibility software? Actually, the publisher of the e-book may not own the "audio" rights of the title (let's not talk about "Alice in Wonderland" here), which may have been sold separately to another publisher. And it's that second publisher which may feel the e-book publisher is infringing on the rights it paid for. So the e-book publisher wants to avoid being sued, and sets the "Read Aloud" feature to off. The e-book publisher may do this even without the sale having taken place yet, just to preserve the option of seeling those rights. We can argue whether or not Read Aloud is an accessibility feature or not, but Adobe has never promoted it as such. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010813/aef4ebe7/attachment.htm From jono at microshaft.org Mon Aug 13 14:42:57 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Anti-DMCA Index -- Libraries, Ebooks and the DMCA In-Reply-To: ; from rsperberg@yahoo.com on Mon, Aug 13, 2001 at 05:32:26PM -0400 References: <20010813141938.E40446@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010813144257.F40446@networkcommand.com> On 13-Aug-2001, Roger Sperberg wrote: > On 13-Aug-2001, Jon O. wrote: > > >Diaz has no right to tell me what I can do with a Public Domain ebook. > >Project Gutenberg should review its licensing and take control back > >from the greedy corporations attempting to usurp the public's > >Intellectual Rights. > > Since Adobe is not the publisher of any of the titles it distributes, it's > not > clear to me why you think it is Adobe telling you what you may or may not do > with a public-domain e-book. > > The permissions are set by the publisher. Anyone may take a public domain > title and publish it. Neither Project Gutenberg nor anyone else can restrict > them in > any way -- since it's public domain, PG doesn't own that work. No one owns > it. And > the only thing PG could do is specify conditions under which the publisher > uses the > licensed Project Gutenberg trademark. > This is all true, I understand how it works. Diaz should maybe make a checkbox that says: "Is this work Public Domain? If so click here." At that point no publisher could restrict any activies. I still can't see how can we allow a publisher to restrict Public Domain works they didn't even convert. PG is doing a nice thing. They are assisting with the growth of knowledge throughout the world. Then some big companies make a format that becomes the most widely used, sprikle in some restrictions and make a mockery of the original ideals which converted the book to digital format in the first place. From free-sklyarov at happycool.com Mon Aug 13 14:48:38 2001 From: free-sklyarov at happycool.com (Victor Piterbarg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Anti-DMCA Index -- Libraries, Ebooks and the DMCA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There seems to be a very fuzzy difference between "published" and "not published" in the digital world. If publishers can place restrictions on public-domain works, then the Project Gutenberg people can say that they have "published" these texts, and that by downloading them you agree to a license that prohibits you from placing any restrictions on the work you've downloaded, if you want to re-distribute it. In fact, they can also ROT-13 the texts for good measure. -Victor -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Roger Sperberg Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 2:32 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] The Anti-DMCA Index -- Libraries, Ebooks and the DMCA On 13-Aug-2001, Jon O. wrote: >Diaz has no right to tell me what I can do with a Public Domain ebook. >Project Gutenberg should review its licensing and take control back >from the greedy corporations attempting to usurp the public's >Intellectual Rights. Since Adobe is not the publisher of any of the titles it distributes, it's not clear to me why you think it is Adobe telling you what you may or may not do with a public-domain e-book. The permissions are set by the publisher. Anyone may take a public domain title and publish it. Neither Project Gutenberg nor anyone else can restrict them in any way -- since it's public domain, PG doesn't own that work. No one owns it. And the only thing PG could do is specify conditions under which the publisher uses the licensed Project Gutenberg trademark. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From doug at wireboard.com Mon Aug 13 14:59:04 2001 From: doug at wireboard.com (Doug McNaught) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Anti-DMCA Index -- Libraries, Ebooks and the DMCA In-Reply-To: "Jon O ."'s message of "Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:42:57 -0700" References: <20010813141938.E40446@networkcommand.com> <20010813144257.F40446@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: "Jon O ." writes: > I still can't see how can we allow a publisher to restrict Public Domain > works they didn't even convert. "Public Domain" means just that. You can do anything you want with it. It's interesting that PG chose not to put additional restrictions on their files, but they didn't ("BSDish" license rather than "GPLish"). > PG is doing a nice thing. They are assisting with the growth of knowledge > throughout the world. Then some big companies make a format that becomes > the most widely used, sprikle in some restrictions and make a mockery of > the original ideals which converted the book to digital format in the first > place. Nothing to stop any one of us from taking the PG text, making it into an (unrestricted) eBook (or justa regular PDF) and distributing it for free, killing that part of ther business model. Have at it. -Doug -- Free Dmitry Sklyarov! http://www.freesklyarov.org/ We will return to our regularly scheduled signature shortly. From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Aug 13 16:24:42 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] "Horrible PR" Message-ID: <20010813162442.B32238@zork.net> Litigation is not a customer-friendly activity. It also can result in horrible PR when the target is a non-profit organization or individual rather than another corporation. http://www.seyboldreport.com/WP99/contentpro.htm (this is a report on the DRM industry from a couple of years ago) -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe I'm looking for work: http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/resume.html From kmself at ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 13 17:47:34 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] "Horrible PR" In-Reply-To: <20010813162442.B32238@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Mon, Aug 13, 2001 at 04:24:42PM -0700 References: <20010813162442.B32238@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010813174733.D827@navel.introspect> on Mon, Aug 13, 2001 at 04:24:42PM -0700, Seth David Schoen (schoen@loyalty.org) wrote: > Litigation is not a customer-friendly activity. It also can result in > horrible PR when the target is a non-profit organization or individual > rather than another corporation. > > http://www.seyboldreport.com/WP99/contentpro.htm > > (this is a report on the DRM industry from a couple of years ago) DRM: digital rights management. FWIW. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010813/6bfd03a4/attachment.pgp From mw at themail.com Mon Aug 13 19:35:54 2001 From: mw at themail.com (mw@themail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] some words of appreciation Message-ID: <200108132235168.SM00201@mail.TheMail.com> I don't think he'll mind my sharing this part with you all (I hope he doesn't mind...) Everyone has been putting in 150%+ to help this effort. This taken from communication last night from Dmitry: "...I'm very happy to see that thousands people do what they can to support me. It makes me stronger...." I know he is very appreciative for all we are doing. -aicra __________________________________________________________________ TheMail.com - Full featured premium email you can count on. Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ From david.haworth at altavista.net Tue Aug 14 00:35:32 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] "Horrible PR" In-Reply-To: <20010813162442.B32238@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Mon, Aug 13, 2001 at 04:24:42PM -0700 References: <20010813162442.B32238@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010814093532.A6208@3soft.de> On Mon, Aug 13, 2001 at 04:24:42PM -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote: > Litigation is not a customer-friendly activity. It also can result in > horrible PR when the target is a non-profit organization or individual > rather than another corporation. > > http://www.seyboldreport.com/WP99/contentpro.htm It's quite clear from the article that Mr. Votsch hasn't a clue about the technology he claims "expertise" in. "This combined with the distribution reach of the Internet has led to the development of increasingly sophisticated models for locking content." Sophisticated? Most of the locking mechanisms are children's toys. "... it has only recently been possible to manage usage rights after the point that the customer installs the package." No, sorry, it still isn't possible, and never will be, as long as the target hardware is general-purpose computing equipment. The rest of the article is pure bullshit. Seybold's customers ought to be sueing for false advertising. -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From xfilez at omskcity.com Tue Aug 14 02:47:59 2001 From: xfilez at omskcity.com (Alex Shtol) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fear and loathing in Digital Millenium. 8((( Message-ID: <14422296450.20010814164759@omskcity.com> Dear All, We distribute our program WMA Encoder Decoder(http://www.x-filez.com) over one year. After beginning Sklyarov case too many download archve delete it. Why? I think - it's a fear, simply fear... Last case is a nonsense! 1. DOWNLOAD.COM (CNET) deleted our program from area PC : Audio : Rippers & Encoders without any mail notification. 2. When we request reason for deleting our program they answered: ---------------- "WMA Encoder/Decoder has been delisted from Download.com, due to a violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). Because of this, we are not able to list it due to legal reasons." ---------------- 3. We send a too many mail to CNET, but they don't answer. ---------------- "Can i contact to you at phone? 1. We have a Microsoft signed WMA DRM license. 2. We do not decode NOT LEGALY WMA files. Because it will break our license. 3. By this license (by Microsoft) we can decode WMA into WAV PCM if this file have a permission for decode. 4. We want to know authors of official complain to WMA Encoder Decoder for contact with our lawyers. We bear losses because of program removal from your archive. You're supporting our competitors. 5. We've been working with CNET for over 3 years. We are very pleased with the service and technical support you provide. But in this case we don't know what we need to do... We have a hope for finding solution our problem... PS. Please answer to us in any case." ---------------- 4. CNET don't answer... but they do not restore our program in list. And now what? Our competitors is listed at CNET, we bear losses... BTW, our program not decode WMA with DRM protection if this transcoding not permitted. Some of another equal programs at CNET can transcode DRM without any permissions, and this program is LISTED!!! Why? Becose they names do not contains phrase "WMA DECODE". We can't use USA law for CNET. It's very bad. DMCA break our LEGAL business... and we cannot to do anything. It's our not success story. We HATE this *&^(* DMCA law! Sorry for bad english, but... -- With kind regards, Alexey Shtol, XFilez Inc. admin@x-filez.com xfilez@omskcity.com VVSPlayer WMA Tools official homepage: http://www.x-filez.com From vkatalov at elcomsoft.com Tue Aug 14 03:49:08 2001 From: vkatalov at elcomsoft.com (Vladimir Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AMAZON & B&N: Frequently Asked Questions About e-Books Message-ID: <1853084235.20010814144908@elcomsoft.com> Hello, Some interesting Q&A from there (especially the last ones): Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/516492/ref=br_bx_c_2_0/002-7169370-8124005 Q. Do you carry e-books that I can read on my Macintosh or Linux-based system? A. No. Amazon.com does not carry any e-book formats that are compatible with Macintosh or Linux-based systems at this time. Q. Can I order multiple copies of an e-book at once? A. No. Unfortunately, we can only accept orders for a quantity of one. Q. Can I pay for an e-book with a check? A. No. E-books can only be purchased with a credit card at this time. Q. Can I purchase an e-book as a gift? A. At this time, e-books cannot be sent as gifts. E-book orders are sent to the e-mail address on your Amazon.com customer account. Q. What is the return policy for e-books? A. E-books are nonreturnable. Barnes & Noble: http://ebooks.barnesandnoble.com/help/faq.asp Q: Can I send an eBook as a gift? A: At this time, you can not send eBooks as gifts. The eBook you purchase can only be downloaded to your computer. Q: Does Barnes & Noble.com accept returns on eBooks? A: No, we cannot accept eBook returns. However, if you are having technical difficulties, please contact our customer service department at service@bn.com or 1-800-The-Book. Sincerely yours, Vladimir ElcomSoft Co.Ltd. http://www.elcomsoft.com mailto:vkatalov@elcomsoft.com From vkatalov at elcomsoft.com Tue Aug 14 05:08:10 2001 From: vkatalov at elcomsoft.com (Vladimir Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wired Rave Awards: voting Message-ID: <1227826328.20010814160810@elcomsoft.com> Hello, http://www.subscriberdirect.com/wired/rave/ravevote.cfm Dmitry is nominated for "Tech Renegade" ("Mavericks, geniuses, and intellectual outlaws. A person whose ideas are changing the world.") Sincerely yours, Vladimir ElcomSoft Co.Ltd. http://www.elcomsoft.com mailto:vkatalov@elcomsoft.com From vkatalov at elcomsoft.com Tue Aug 14 05:10:20 2001 From: vkatalov at elcomsoft.com (Vladimir Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fwd: INDUSTRY BABE OF THE WEEK -- 07.28.01 Message-ID: <327956394.20010814161020@elcomsoft.com> This is a forwarded message From: SmackDabMedia Mail To: Vladimir Katalov Subject: INDUSTRY BABE OF THE WEEK -- 07.28.01 ===8<==============Original message text=============== Apologies for the delay in notification. Dmitry Sklyarov has been named INDUSTRY BABE OF THE WEEK in the 87th issue of NOVA, a weekly online culture eZine. A permanent link to http://www.elcomsoft.com/ can be found at http://www.smackdabmedia.com/nova/087/industrybabeoftheweek.html Should you wish to provide a reciprocal link, please feel free to do so, though it is not expected. Should you wish to include us on your emailing list, our address is mail@smackdabmedia.com. Best regards, Simon Fraser Partner, SmackDabMedia.com ===8<===========End of original message text=========== Best regards, Vladimir mailto:vkatalov@elcomsoft.com From admin at seattle-chat.com Tue Aug 14 05:56:21 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fear and loathing in Digital Millenium. 8((( In-Reply-To: <14422296450.20010814164759@omskcity.com> Message-ID: Can anyone verify this license, if this is in fact true, we could use this as a good example. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Alex Shtol Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 2:48 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fear and loathing in Digital Millenium. 8((( Importance: High Dear All, We distribute our program WMA Encoder Decoder(http://www.x-filez.com) over one year. After beginning Sklyarov case too many download archve delete it. Why? I think - it's a fear, simply fear... Last case is a nonsense! 1. DOWNLOAD.COM (CNET) deleted our program from area PC : Audio : Rippers & Encoders without any mail notification. 2. When we request reason for deleting our program they answered: ---------------- "WMA Encoder/Decoder has been delisted from Download.com, due to a violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). Because of this, we are not able to list it due to legal reasons." ---------------- 3. We send a too many mail to CNET, but they don't answer. ---------------- "Can i contact to you at phone? 1. We have a Microsoft signed WMA DRM license. 2. We do not decode NOT LEGALY WMA files. Because it will break our license. 3. By this license (by Microsoft) we can decode WMA into WAV PCM if this file have a permission for decode. 4. We want to know authors of official complain to WMA Encoder Decoder for contact with our lawyers. We bear losses because of program removal from your archive. You're supporting our competitors. 5. We've been working with CNET for over 3 years. We are very pleased with the service and technical support you provide. But in this case we don't know what we need to do... We have a hope for finding solution our problem... PS. Please answer to us in any case." ---------------- 4. CNET don't answer... but they do not restore our program in list. And now what? Our competitors is listed at CNET, we bear losses... BTW, our program not decode WMA with DRM protection if this transcoding not permitted. Some of another equal programs at CNET can transcode DRM without any permissions, and this program is LISTED!!! Why? Becose they names do not contains phrase "WMA DECODE". We can't use USA law for CNET. It's very bad. DMCA break our LEGAL business... and we cannot to do anything. It's our not success story. We HATE this *&^(* DMCA law! Sorry for bad english, but... -- With kind regards, Alexey Shtol, XFilez Inc. admin@x-filez.com xfilez@omskcity.com VVSPlayer WMA Tools official homepage: http://www.x-filez.com _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From mark at blorch.org Tue Aug 14 06:58:26 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] More Frequently Asked Questions About e-Books In-Reply-To: <1853084235.20010814144908@elcomsoft.com> References: <1853084235.20010814144908@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: <01081406582601.04653@bilbo.blorch.org> From xfilez at omskcity.com Tue Aug 14 10:10:21 2001 From: xfilez at omskcity.com (Alex Shtol) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What's happened now in USA??? Total madness? Message-ID: <1503574079.20010815001021@omskcity.com> Dear free-sklyarov, I think this guys is crazy... Now Dolby required a license for reading AC-3 stream... Tomorrow anybody will require license for reading simply TEXT file... But this guys notify software archives to remove software and DO NOT NOTIFY AUTHORS and DISTRIBUTORS... Total madness! -- With kind regards, Alexey Shtol, XFilez Inc. admin@x-filez.com xfilez@omskcity.com VVSPlayer WMA Tools official homepage: http://www.x-filez.com From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Tue Aug 14 10:30:45 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] a right for pregnancy analogy Message-ID: <3B796045.5CF81594@sheffield.ac.uk> Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/516492/ref=br_bx_c_2_0/002-7169370-8124005 Q. What is the return policy for e-books? A. E-books are nonreturnable. There were a lot of cases when women were forced by their employers to sign a contract with a paragraph like "I promise that I will not become pregnant. If I will, the employer has a right to fire me". They were becoming pregnant after a while and were fired. They were going to the judge court and the court was making a decision that these women could not be fired because they have a right for pregnancy. However, the contracts, which they signed, were not considered illegal. Rather it was decided that such paragraph does not have any legal power. So, finally (probably after a long battle) those women returned to their jobs. Probably now no employer will include such a paragraph in their contracts because it is ridiculous, but even if they will it does not mean anything. I could not find any appropriate link, but I'm sure there should be a lot of them. I think therefore that such return policy is legal. However there is a possibility that if someone would wish to return the e-book, the seller would have to take it back. It entirely depends on the trade law and regulations. Probably the customer has a right, supported by a corresponding law to return the purchased item under certain circumstances. There are some exceptions, ex. earrings. They are usually non-returnable due to hygienic reasons. anton From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Aug 14 11:11:24 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] REMINDER: Global IRC Summit - 14 Aug 2001 Message-ID: <87bslicy0j.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Hey, folks. Don't forget, the global IRC summit will occur tonight, on slashnet.org, at #sklyarov (moderated). This is a coordination meeting for event organizers. Since we have some well-established dates for the next few weeks, it seems like we should be able to have a relatively short meeting. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From kmself at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 14 11:10:35 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] a right for pregnancy analogy In-Reply-To: <3B796045.5CF81594@sheffield.ac.uk>; from a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk on Tue, Aug 14, 2001 at 06:30:45PM +0100 References: <3B796045.5CF81594@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20010814111035.A21425@navel.introspect> on Tue, Aug 14, 2001 at 06:30:45PM +0100, Anton Chterenlikht (a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk) wrote: > Amazon: > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/516492/ref=br_bx_c_2_0/002-7169370-8124005 > > Q. What is the return policy for e-books? > A. E-books are nonreturnable. > I think therefore that such return policy is legal. However there is a > possibility that if someone would wish to return the e-book, the seller > would have to take it back. It entirely depends on the trade law and > regulations. Probably the customer has a right, supported by a > corresponding law to return the purchased item under certain > circumstances. There are some exceptions, ex. earrings. They are usually > non-returnable due to hygienic reasons. Note too eBook purchases are credit-card only. In the US, there are federal statuatory protections which allow consumers broad rights to return or refuse payments of goods found defective, or even just missing. This might make for an interesting mass protest: purchase of eBooks by a small crowd, followed by refusal of payment. The refusal is negotiated between the CC company and the vendor -- making a CC company a useful lever in this particular battle. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010814/d4005450/attachment.pgp From nbhs2 at i-2000.com Tue Aug 14 12:27:37 2001 From: nbhs2 at i-2000.com (Michael Scottaline) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NYT Article Message-ID: <20010814152737.680d54fd.nbhs2@i-2000.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/13/technology/ebusiness/13NECO.html -- "Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world." -- Kaiser Wilhelm From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Aug 14 12:24:40 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] REMINDER: I Forgot the Time Message-ID: <877kw6cumf.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> d'oh! I forgot the time for the IRC summit -- 9PM EST. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Tue Aug 14 13:26:25 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA+Sklyarov writeup in SF Chronicle, Aug 13 Message-ID: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/08/13/BU192271.DTL&type=sports -- -alexf From sam at dasbistro.com Tue Aug 14 13:46:27 2001 From: sam at dasbistro.com (Sam Phillips) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] REMINDER: I Forgot the Time In-Reply-To: <877kw6cumf.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Tue, Aug 14, 2001 at 12:24:40PM -0700 References: <877kw6cumf.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010814134627.B3155@dasbistro.com> On Tue, Aug 14, 2001 at 12:24:40PM -0700, Klepht wrote: > d'oh! I forgot the time for the IRC summit -- 9PM EST. > Shouldn't that be 9 PM EDT? -- Sam Phillips http://www.dasbistro.com Reno Nevada From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Aug 14 13:59:38 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [reed@allseer.com: [free-sklyarov-announce] Free Dmitry Party - August 29th] Message-ID: <20010814135938.N32238@zork.net> This is unusual: someone posting to free-sklyarov-announce _before_ free-sklyarov. ----- Forwarded message from Christopher Reed ----- From: Christopher Reed To: free-sklyarov-announce@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu Subject: [free-sklyarov-announce] Free Dmitry Party - August 29th Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:31:31 -0700 Hello friends, Supporters of Dmitry are having a party on Wednesday the 29th of August from 8:00 to 12:00 PM to raise funds for Dmitry's legal defense. The party will be held in a 15,000 sq. ft. warehouse space 2 blocks from Moscone Center (where LinuxWorld is hosted). The space and a DJ have both been donated; my company, AllSeer is donating the beer and me:) The EFF and the FSF have both offered their support. We expect 500-800 people in attendance. Before, during and after the party we will need a few volunteers to help serve beer/wine, ask for donations, stamp individuals (who are 21 and over) and a bit of clean up. Some other items we need are: 1. A truck and driver (We'll return it of course...) 2. A live band (live is better than dead...) 3. Corporate sponsors for wine and food (not just anyone though...) If you are interested in volunteering or have any suggestion for the above, please call me at 415 371 9060 or email reed@allseer.com Thanks for your help and we look forward to meeting you. Sincerely, Chris Reed _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov-announce mailing list free-sklyarov-announce@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-announce ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From kmself at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 14 15:14:17 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [declan@well.com: FC: Dutch crypto whiz broke dig-vid scheme -- but won't publish?] Message-ID: <20010814151416.D25341@navel.introspect> Skipped content of type multipart/mixed-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010814/66d34956/attachment.pgp From mkbilbo at cdcla.com Tue Aug 14 15:30:51 2001 From: mkbilbo at cdcla.com (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What's happened now in USA??? Total madness? References: <1503574079.20010815001021@omskcity.com> Message-ID: <005001c12510$c6328a70$3088d790@tti.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Shtol" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 10:10 AM Subject: [free-sklyarov] What's happened now in USA??? Total madness? > Dear free-sklyarov, > > I think this guys is crazy... Now Dolby required a license for > reading AC-3 stream... Tomorrow anybody will require license for > reading simply TEXT file... Hm. Well, ASCII is a code and to understand messages sent, you must decipher it. Ah, reading is illegal under DMCA! Mark (at least that puts an end to advertising) From petsounds at ureach.com Tue Aug 14 17:09:59 2001 From: petsounds at ureach.com (Smiley Smile) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's presentation Message-ID: <200108150009.UAA04729@www20.ureach.com> I've been trying to grok everything in Dmitry's presentation and I've got some questions: 1. On the PDF file encryption slide, what is the Encryption Dictionary? The security handler "takes information from Encryption Dictionary, calculates document encryption key and passes it to PDF Viewer." 2. On the Object encryption key calculation slide, it says the Object encryption key is derived from the hash of "Document encryption key, Scrambled Object ID + Generation, and 'sAIT' string." What is Generation? How is the Object ID Scrambled? I'm guessing the 'sAIT' string is literally those four ASCII characters. Is that right? 3. On the FileOpen security handler slide, it says that FileOpen Publisher 2.4 uses "variant keys, but encrypted document itself contains all necessary information to instantly calculate encryption key." Anyone know the details here? 4. On the "Security flaw Acrobat plug-ins certification mechanism" slide, it says "Only data from PE Header is used for checking." My reading of this is that the only piece of the plug-in's code signed with the public key is its PE Header. Is that right? Any insights appreciated! :) From jono at microshaft.org Tue Aug 14 17:20:23 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov Interview in new TIME magazine Message-ID: <20010814172023.A47576@networkcommand.com> There is an interview with Dmitry in the new issue of TIME. It is very balanced and shows both sides. Evan may have more info about this. Thanks, Jon From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Aug 14 17:25:16 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov Interview in new TIME magazine In-Reply-To: <20010814172023.A47576@networkcommand.com> References: <20010814172023.A47576@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <87hevab24z.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JO" == Jon O writes: JO> Evan may have more info about this. I talked to a reporter from Time last week, and he said there'd be a 2-page spread in this week's Time. How "balanced" is it? I'm not sure I like that. Is there anything real bad in there? Did I get quoted calling Dmitry a "Russian criminal bent on destroying Western civilization" or something? ~Klepth -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From rjhill at directvinternet.com Tue Aug 14 17:35:01 2001 From: rjhill at directvinternet.com (Rebecca J. Hill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] TIME interview Message-ID: The Time piece appears online at: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101010820-170863,00.html Rj From jono at microshaft.org Tue Aug 14 17:39:33 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov Interview in new TIME magazine In-Reply-To: <87hevab24z.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Tue, Aug 14, 2001 at 05:25:16PM -0700 References: <20010814172023.A47576@networkcommand.com> <87hevab24z.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010814173933.B47576@networkcommand.com> First of all I don't subscribe to TIME. However, a friend had a copy and mentioned this business so I read ;)... No, it's very balanced and very clearly addresses the fair-use issues. It also makes no use of the word hacker, even descibing DEFCON. It mentions Dmitry's family, what he is doing and the fact that he doesn't gamble because he prefers to use his head and his hand for money ;). Your quote is something like, you can't restrict research and our reverse engineering -- that is our bread and butter. It also talks about the DMCA and why it is a risk to real scientific research. Very good overall... Sorry, the quotes are not verbatim, just what I can remember and pretty close. Don't quote me quoting anyone later though ;)... -- Nothing to do with the article, just ponderings Also, all this business just keeps making me think we need a central foundation or something that acts like Conumer Reports and the people who crash test cars and trucks. If we had that and their was a very public organization testing this stuff, I think the public would understand a little better. Right now, all this stuff is published in security and cryptography fields and is very good, but we need to make the consumer and author think about what protection they are getting from Adobe, Mircosoft, etc. One guy said he was mad because Adobe should have been harder on Sklyarov. When I told him, "shouldn't you be hard on Adobe? This is like The Emperor Wears no Clothes. They tell you it's secure, but it's really not. And now it's illegal for me to prove that." Needless to say he then understood... Thanks, Jon On 14-Aug-2001, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "JO" == Jon O writes: > > JO> Evan may have more info about this. > > I talked to a reporter from Time last week, and he said there'd be a > 2-page spread in this week's Time. > > How "balanced" is it? I'm not sure I like that. Is there anything real > bad in there? Did I get quoted calling Dmitry a "Russian criminal bent > on destroying Western civilization" or something? > > ~Klepth > > -- > klepht@eleutheria.org > http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From proclus at iname.com Tue Aug 14 17:52:37 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wired: Hackers: Wake Up and Be Useful Message-ID: <200108150052.f7F0qba13839@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,46035,00.html Ok, I'm hooked. I can run cron jobs and clusters inside ssh-agents, and I'm pretty good at day to day computer security. I know *pgp*, and OpenBSD. Point me to good people who need protection, and I will try. Forward this message as you like. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From jays at panix.com Tue Aug 14 19:07:47 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The fight against the DMCA is part of a battle that must be fought. Message-ID: http://www.technologyreview.com/magazine/sep01/mann.asp oo--JS. From jays at panix.com Tue Aug 14 20:11:11 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] In New York City, at noon, every Monday we rally. Message-ID: In response to some lines in the log of the irc meeting: Yes, of course, we will continue the New York City rallies. Noon, every Monday in front of the New York Public Library. oo--JS. From jplists at magnus99.dhs.org Tue Aug 14 20:31:52 2001 From: jplists at magnus99.dhs.org (Jeff Pang) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsweek Article (8/20 Issue) Message-ID: <01081420315201.02622@magnus99.localdomain> This week's Newsweek has a *very* positive article on the Sklyarov case written by none other than Steven Levy. The online version is on msnbc: http://www.msnbc.com/news/612847.asp Jeff From csm at MoonGroup.com Tue Aug 14 20:42:58 2001 From: csm at MoonGroup.com (Chuck Mead) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsweek Article (8/20 Issue) In-Reply-To: <01081420315201.02622@magnus99.localdomain> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Jeff Pang posted the following: JP>This week's Newsweek has a *very* positive article on the Sklyarov case JP>written by none other than Steven Levy. The online version is on msnbc: JP> JP>http://www.msnbc.com/news/612847.asp JP> JP>Jeff Absolutely lovely article! - -- csm "...software engineers, as Percy Bysshe Shelley said of poets, are the unacknowledged legislators of our time. acknowledge this reality and try to shape it..." - stille/lessig -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjt578QACgkQv6Gjsf2pQ0rkbQCfRvloA4HleDRU9HO5NtSjhMHa IxsAnRLv6n4hjD33MyLdGAccnWb50T+8 =yO6W -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jono at microshaft.org Tue Aug 14 20:59:23 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsweek Article (8/20 Issue) In-Reply-To: <01081420315201.02622@magnus99.localdomain>; from jplists@magnus99.dhs.org on Tue, Aug 14, 2001 at 08:31:52PM -0700 References: <01081420315201.02622@magnus99.localdomain> Message-ID: <20010814205923.C48239@networkcommand.com> This one just tops it off. I can smell the smoldering remains of these over protective, under encrypted, stomping Rights companies now... I hope we are all taking a good look at what we did. TIME, Newsweek, NYTIMES... We are overcoming money, power, greed and a couple other sins with little more than sheer inspiration. RIGHT IS MIGHT! On 14-Aug-2001, Jeff Pang wrote: > This week's Newsweek has a *very* positive article on the Sklyarov case > written by none other than Steven Levy. The online version is on msnbc: > > http://www.msnbc.com/news/612847.asp > > Jeff > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From tom at lemuria.org Tue Aug 14 23:23:19 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wired: Hackers: Wake Up and Be Useful In-Reply-To: <200108150052.f7F0qba13839@pico.mbg.cornell.edu>; from proclus@iname.com on Tue, Aug 14, 2001 at 08:52:37PM -0400 References: <200108150052.f7F0qba13839@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <20010815082319.B11129@lemuria.org> On Tue, Aug 14, 2001 at 08:52:37PM -0400, proclus@iname.com wrote: > http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,46035,00.html > > Ok, I'm hooked. I can run cron jobs and clusters inside ssh-agents, > and I'm pretty good at day to day computer security. I know *pgp*, > and OpenBSD. Point me to good people who need protection, and I will > try. Forward this message as you like. http://www.cryptorights.org that's what the article is referring to. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From jssj2001 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 15 00:14:41 2001 From: jssj2001 at hotmail.com (y s) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" Message-ID: Of course, you need it to exercise your right of Fair Use. However, why don't _YOU_ write one? You would be pretty safe in New Zealand (Unless you come with presentation to DefCon.) What, not enough gray matter? That's bad, you may need some... >From: "Daniel Richards" >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" >Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:32:27 +1200 > >Short and simple. >Has anyone written another program that will "process" adobe's >ebooks into pdf/html/txt/etc? >Is anyone writing one? >(you'd probably want to publish it anonymously, heh) >If anyone knows or is doing such a thing, could you please email >me (Off list, use PGP) > >http://www.freesklyarov.org - Free Dmitry! >PGP Pub key: >http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/DanielRPubKey.asc >Fingerprint: 416D 4027 D635 AF51 F2BF 60DF 4D94 F7A0 9893 2848 > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Wed Aug 15 00:25:27 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] -announce & -sfba URL changes: update your links Message-ID: An http subscription/archives interface to the free-sklyarov-announce list has been put up at: http://sf.freesklyarov.org/lists/announce/ *** PLEASE UPDATE YOUR BOOKMARKS/LINKS *** (the original HTTPS interface was causing grief for some people with older browsers, so this one gives people the option of bypassing the encryption... it's a circumvention device or something) The same goes for the Bay Area local list, free-sklyarov-sfba, which now has an http subscription/archives interface at: http://sf.freesklyarov.org/lists/sfba/ Note that the original HTTPS interfaces will remain functional. Email me if you have any trouble with the new interfaces. -- -alexf From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Wed Aug 15 05:26:10 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Outreach Volunteers Needed References: <3B751713.5529AB82@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> <20010811140801.P23884@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <3B7A6A62.D60EB047@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Calling all concerned netizens: Content control is a dead end. The legal tradition in copyright has always drawn a distinction between facts and ideas on one hand, which nobody can own; and expression on the other hand, which is what has been allowed to be copyrighted. The thing is, data elements are facts, whether they are part of an expressive work or not. Free speech, the use of information and the very purpose of copyright are being revised by publishers and other "content" stakeholders by means of "content" control measures (and other means as well, though we note content control and the DMCA in particular when we consider the plight of Dmitry Sklyarov). The Copyright Clause in the US Constitution is geared toward allowing Congress to grant artificial monopolies ("exclusive Right" for "limited Times" to "Writings and Discoveries") in order to "promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts." It does not grant copyright as a natural right, and it does not provide for the superseding of free speech by this power of Congress. Do you agree that content control must not be allowed to enable copyright to supersede our free speech right to process and distribute information? We need outreach volunteers and coordinators who wish to help get the word out about what is going on, and to build the constituency of those who are affected by these developments. If you agree that content control must not be allowed to enable copyright to supersede free speech rights, then please subscribe to the C-FIT Content Control Outreach discussion list by sending an email saying "subscribe C-FIT_Release_Community" to ListServ@realmeasures.dyndns.org. Seth Johnson Information Producers Initiative: http://realmeasures.dyndns.org/C-FIT From seth.johnson at RealMeasures.dyndns.org Wed Aug 15 06:35:52 2001 From: seth.johnson at RealMeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Information Producers Initiative Message-ID: I thought you folks would find the following initiative of interest: Seth Johnson Committee for Independent Technology I am starting a project called the Information Producers Initiative. I have pasted a draft of a basic position paper below. I would like very much if I could obtain comments on it, perhaps through this list and/or other public fora. It is a very general foundation on which specific policy positions are meant to be based. I am specifically interested in obtaining any information regarding other initiatives that might be similar to this, and what's been tried and what happened to these initiatives. I have set up a list for people who are interested in these matters. Subscription is by sending an email saying "subscribe C-FIT_Community" to ListServ@realmeasures.dyndns.org. The list archives are at: http://realmeasures.dyndns.org/C-FIT%20Archives Forward this message freely as you wish. The text below is also available at: http://RealMeasures.dyndns.org/C-FIT Thanks for your help, Seth Johnson Committee for Independent Technology seth.johnson@realmeasures.dyndns.org The Information Producers Initiative A Project of the Committee for Independent Technology The Committee for Independent Technology holds that a proper consideration of information-related public policy must focus on what the state of technology means for all citizens. We believe that a well-founded understanding of the condition in which citizens presently find themselves as a result of information technology, should focus on one fundamental principle. This principle is that information is used to produce new information. To put another cast on the same point, information that is accessible in whatever form has never merely served the purpose of consumption. This may seem to be an obvious point, but when it is considered in light of the new modes of public access that have developed, and the flexible means of using information that are now at hand, one sees that this principle is more important now than it may ever have seemed to be before. In the past, only specific groups of people, engaged in specific types of activities, had their interests assessed in terms of their capacity as information producers. The public at large has been treated as mere consumers of information in many areas, with public policy reflecting this tendency. Now, however, we all have the capacity to participate in the development of human knowledge, on a reasonably equal footing with all other citizens, because of the forms of access to the public sphere that are now available, and to the forms of information that may be found there, by means of public communications networks such as the Internet. This puts us all in an entirely new position with respect to our abilities to access, manipulate and produce information. We may now manipulate information in a profoundly flexible way. We may quickly access any work that is available electronically on public communications networks. We may, with great facility, decompose any digitized work into component parts. We may manipulate, analyze, synthesize, select and combine the conclusions, observations, discrete facts, ideas, images, musical passages, binary bits and other elements of any information in digital form. We may efficiently produce useful, meaningful and creative expressive works on the basis of this flexible access to information. But perhaps the most far-reaching way in which information technology affects our condition as citizens, is in the fact that we may all now distribute our information products to the public at large in a powerful and convenient manner that obviates the need to rely on publishers and other intermediaries who have traditionally provided public access to information producers. We must no longer allow our rights in the area of the access to and use of information and information technology, to be regarded merely as rights of consumption. All citizens must assure that policy makers no longer treat their interests in information merely with respect to their capacity as consumers. We must advocate for and guard our broader interests as information producers in equal standing in the public sphere, possessing essential powers and rights in the access, use and communication of information. The Committee for Independent Technology seeks to assure that the rights and capabilities of all citizens are not undermined through public policies that restrict the ordinary exercise of their rights to access and produce information by flexible means. From rsperberg at yahoo.com Wed Aug 15 10:18:36 2001 From: rsperberg at yahoo.com (Roger Sperberg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chronicle of Higher Education Message-ID: This article concerns the two sides of the DMCA and encryption controversy through the lens of academic researchers, in this case two computational scientists at Carnegie Mellon: http://www.chronicle.com/free/v47/i48/48a04501.htm If you follow this story deeply enough, you will see that Prof. Touretzky practices what he preaches. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010815/44cb9fec/attachment.html From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Wed Aug 15 12:00:42 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Misc. Gripe re: DMCA Message-ID: So, 2600 and Dmitry aren't allowed to post information that will incite (or merely passively allow) anonymous strangers to commit the heinous act of copyright infringement, but a Ninth Circuit appeals court is free to find: "If their statements merely encouraged unrelated terrorists" to commit violent acts against the doctors, Judge Alex Kozinski wrote, "then their words are protected by the First Amendment." Only if the defendants had threatened to commit violent acts themselves could they be held liable. ...in the case of the Nuremburg Files anti-abortion-doctor website. Any reason why hasn't congress passed a law of DMCA-like quality to protect the privacy and lives of abortion doctors? Well, because that'd be UNCONSTITUTIONAL. It demonstrates where the priorities are in congress. Save the copyright industry's profits at any cost, but have a sudden, brief consciousness of constitutional law when doctors are hunted down by vigilanties. Free Dmitry. Repeal the DMCA. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ From jono at microshaft.org Wed Aug 15 12:22:15 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another Cryptography Paper suppressed from the DMCA Message-ID: <20010815122215.E51374@networkcommand.com> ----- Forwarded message ----- To: dmca_discuss@lists.microshaft.org Subject: [DMCA_discuss] Cryptography Paper suppressed from the DMCA Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:13:44 -0700 Niels Ferguson has found a weakness in the HDCP content protection system. However, he can not publish the results due to DMCA issues. He has written a paper regarding this issue here: Censorship in action: why I don't publish my HDCP results http://www.macfergus.com/niels/dmca/index.html Recently I found the documentation of the High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) system on the internet. HDCP is a cryptographic system developed by Intel that encrypts video on the DVI bus. The DVI bus is used to connect digital video cameras and DVD players with digital TVs, etc. The aim of HDCP is to prevent illegal copying of video contents by encrypting the signal. _______________________________________________ ------------------------ http://www.anti-dmca.org ------------------------ DMCA_discuss mailing list DMCA_discuss@lists.microshaft.org http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss ----- End forwarded message ----- From admin at seattle-chat.com Wed Aug 15 13:35:41 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW: Webcast Today from USENIX conference discussion of the DMCA! Message-ID: if you didn't already know about this, here's the link &) http://www.technetcast.com/sdmi-challenge.html From jono at microshaft.org Wed Aug 15 17:35:04 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:06:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [CYBERIA] Celebs Copyright DNA to prevent illegal Clones]] Message-ID: <20010815173504.B53372@networkcommand.com> --------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:29:15 -0400 Subject: [CYBERIA] Celebs Copyright DNA to prevent illegal Clones To: CYBERIA-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1492000/1492859.stm Well, people are going to start copyrighting everything. Celebrities who copyright their DNA could stop clones-- and unwanted paternity suits. In the past, the poor celebrity would have to pay child support. No longer. He could sue the woman for creating a derivative work without a license! Copying 50% of the DNA sure doesn't sound like fair use to me. Of course, this turns all petri dishes, pipettes and whatever other devices used by the cloners into copyright circumvention technology. The Bushies don't need to ban stem cell research per se. They can just use the DMCA. In fact, it would be against the law to even talk about how to make clones. Dmitry Skylarov could have some cell mates with PhDs in bio. The FBI could start raiding all of the bio conferences too looking for bio hackers. -Peter ********************************************************************** For Listserv Instructions, see http://www.lawlists.net/cyberia Off-Topic threads: http://www.lawlists.net/mailman/listinfo/cyberia-ot Need more help? Send mail to: Cyberia-L-Request@listserv.aol.com ********************************************************************** ----- End forwarded message ----- _______________________________________________ ------------------------ http://www.anti-dmca.org ------------------------ DMCA_discuss mailing list DMCA_discuss@lists.microshaft.org http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss From jssj2001 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 15 22:52:50 2001 From: jssj2001 at hotmail.com (y s) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" Message-ID: Do you really believe in trolls, Rabbi Sassaman? I am very real, even if you don't like my opinion. The fact that somebody else posted from my computer (and I think I know who it was), does not change the validity of my point. Yes, I am "still here", and I plan to post more when I have time, partially because I have some experience most of you don't have: I used to live in Russia for the most of my life. When I saw protestors waving Russian flags, I was saddened. It reminded me of David Duke who went there for support (and found it, BTW). Russia now is struggling to enforce very basic laws, put aside the copyright protection. Do you know that in Russia pirate software is sold everywhere almost openly, and you can buy any software for a couple of bucks (and most people do)? I am pretty sure your hero Dmitry didn't even know about Fair Use until he was jailed. There is no need for it in Russia, the idea itself sounds ridiculous. (Fortunately, you people enlightened him.) Is this the ideal situation most of you want to see in this country? Many years of Communist rule destroyed respect for private property in the former Soviet Union. This is one of the reasons why Russia, with all its tremendous natural resources an great human potential, is now among the poorest countries in the world, while the United States is still one of the richest. Seems like many of you guys here don't like it. Yes, you should see more of my disagreement with you here. If you don't see my messages, it most likely means I am blocked from this list. It would be really funny, considering you strong position on free speech... >From: Len Sassaman >Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" >Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:23:09 -0700 (PDT) > >Why are you still here, "y s"? You've already been exposed as a troll. >Enough is enough. > >On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, y s wrote: > > > Of course, you need it to exercise your right of Fair Use. > > However, why don't _YOU_ write one? You would be pretty safe in New >Zealand > > (Unless you come with presentation to DefCon.) > > What, not enough gray matter? That's bad, you may need some... > > > > >From: "Daniel Richards" > > >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > > >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" > > >Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:32:27 +1200 > > > > > >Short and simple. > > >Has anyone written another program that will "process" adobe's > > >ebooks into pdf/html/txt/etc? > > >Is anyone writing one? > > >(you'd probably want to publish it anonymously, heh) > > >If anyone knows or is doing such a thing, could you please email > > >me (Off list, use PGP) > > > > > >http://www.freesklyarov.org - Free Dmitry! > > >PGP Pub key: > > >http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/DanielRPubKey.asc > > >Fingerprint: 416D 4027 D635 AF51 F2BF 60DF 4D94 F7A0 9893 2848 > > > > > > >-- > >Len Sassaman > >Security Architect | >Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." > | >http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From robertl1 at home.com Wed Aug 15 23:22:18 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsweek Article (8/20 Issue) In-Reply-To: <20010815094045.F49127@networkcommand.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010814224524.0241b3d0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> <01081420315201.02622@magnus99.localdomain> <01081420315201.02622@magnus99.localdomain> <20010814205923.C48239@networkcommand.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010814224524.0241b3d0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010815112909.0214a6a0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> > >Really, well can you explain why my website gets over 10,000 hits per day? > >http://www.anti-dmca.org > >> >> But this is the right fight and you are on the right side. This is good. I don't mean to belittle it. But to put it in perspective this nation has over 100 Million adults using the Internet. If each of your hits reprsents a unique individual then 300,000/month 0r 1/3 of 1% of these people have hit your site. I suspect we are indeed lucky if 50,000 unique individuals have ever seen your site. We have a ways to go. http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38515-2001Feb21.html My real problem is not with cheerleading or being pleased with results but with the sort of expectation that is raised by your rhetoric, >I can smell the smoldering remains of these over >protective, under encrypted, stomping Rights companies now... I do agree that these companies are dinosaurs. But they are large and very dangerous dinosaurs who got the DMCA passed by 99-0 despite the best efforts of the EFF. I expect this fight to go on for years, if not decades, so I find any thing that suggests a quick victory is naive and likely to lead to disenchantment. I would like to see the younger fellows still fighting the meta battle 30 years from now, well after some of us are long dead, because I do believe the battle is never won but rather only changes form. Take a look at http://download.cnet.com/downloads/ and select the Most Popular link, which may be http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10001-102-0-1.html?tag=st.dl.10001.dir.10001-102-1 The numbers run toward a million downloads each week. I note that Adobe Acrobat has been on these charts for 156 weeks and is currently number 19 with 58,614 downloads last week. Not exactly a "smoldering remain". It may be that getting a single "Free Dmitry" hit mp3 does as much to build the consciousness of a large number of people as anything. Buena suerte amigos, Bob La Quey From jono at microshaft.org Wed Aug 15 23:58:44 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:00 2005 Subject: WARNING: Flames follow Re: [free-sklyarov] Newsweek Article (8/20 Issue) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010815112909.0214a6a0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com>; from robertl1@home.com on Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 11:22:18PM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010814224524.0241b3d0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> <01081420315201.02622@magnus99.localdomain> <01081420315201.02622@magnus99.localdomain> <20010814205923.C48239@networkcommand.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010814224524.0241b3d0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> <20010815094045.F49127@networkcommand.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010815112909.0214a6a0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <20010815235844.F53980@networkcommand.com> Don't read this if you don't need any flames today. I too was having a good day... It's bad manners to send private emails to the list. I did by mistake, I hope you did too..Actually, I don't really care... You know what? You're totally right. I'm not going to waste my time making these websites anymore. I'm not going to imagine we are having any impact on the HUGE corporations. I'm not going to rally myself and the troops. I'm not going to think one person can make a change. I'm not going to think Hilter took over and killed many people even though it had to start with someone. I'm not going to think Linus actually created a new tool that many, many people use now. No, even though you said EFF was ineffectual and now say they made their best effort, there really is no reason to fight. I'll just make a song and that will suffice. If people hear a good Anti-DMCA song they will get out of this mess. You're right. Even though PDF is really the only thing you can use, expecting the masses to cut back is insane. Especially cutting back while we've been at this for 3 weeks. I'm also not going to imagine that your defeatist attitude actually hurts morale or participation. We should all feel as beaten back and attempt to prove that with numbers and fractions and as your link shows, "the decline of the internet." Making a difference to even just one person has no meaning as you have shown. No, I lose, you lose, we all lose. But wait, Dmitry is just one person. I am just one person. The other people on this list are just one persons. Geez, a bunch of one persons can cause a lot of fuss. I hope you don't send other people off-list emails like this. Unlike me they might actually read them and think you have a point or two... I hope you aren't some Microsoft Morale manipulation expert. I'm starting to think that from your other emails: http://zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/2001-August/003010.html If you would like to continue this enlightening discussion, you should probably just send me email directly. I don't think the others want to hear it. On 15-Aug-2001, Bob La Quey wrote: > > > > >Really, well can you explain why my website gets over 10,000 hits per day? > > > >http://www.anti-dmca.org > > > >> > >> But this is the right fight and you are on the right side. > > This is good. I don't mean to belittle it. But to put it in perspective > this nation has over 100 Million adults using the Internet. If each of > your hits reprsents a unique individual then 300,000/month 0r 1/3 of 1% > of these people have hit your site. I suspect we are indeed lucky if > 50,000 unique individuals have ever seen your site. We have a ways to go. > > http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38515-2001Feb21.html > > My real problem is not with cheerleading or being pleased with results > but with the sort of expectation that is raised by your rhetoric, > > >I can smell the smoldering remains of these over > >protective, under encrypted, stomping Rights companies now... > > I do agree that these companies are dinosaurs. But they are large and very > dangerous dinosaurs who got the DMCA passed by 99-0 despite the best efforts > of the EFF. I expect this fight to go on for years, if not decades, so I > find any thing that suggests a quick victory is naive and likely to lead > to disenchantment. I would like to see the younger fellows still fighting > the meta battle 30 years from now, well after some of us are long dead, > because I do believe the battle is never won but rather only changes form. > > Take a look at http://download.cnet.com/downloads/ > > and select the Most Popular link, which may be > > http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10001-102-0-1.html?tag=st.dl.10001.dir.10001-102-1 > > The numbers run toward a million downloads each week. > > I note that Adobe Acrobat has been on these charts for 156 weeks and is currently > number 19 with 58,614 downloads last week. Not exactly a "smoldering remain". > > It may be that getting a single "Free Dmitry" hit mp3 does as much to build the > consciousness of a large number of people as anything. > > Buena suerte amigos, > > > Bob La Quey From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Aug 16 00:39:53 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Summary of 8/14/2001 Global IRC Summit Message-ID: <87hev8xxkm.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> At the global IRC summit, we made the following decisions. Note that some reference previous decisions; interested persons should check the summary for the last summit. * Per previous decision, the following two petitions were agreed upon: http://www.eleutheria.org/doj_sklyarov_petition.txt http://www.eleutheria.org/legislator_petition.txt * As mentioned before, the first is for the US Attorney, and the second is for local or national legislators. The second can and should be customized for local use. * Tabinda Khan will be laying out these petitions for printing and signing. She'll also provide info on how to collect sigs for the US Attorney and mail them to a central address (already chosen) so they can be assembled and presented all at once. * The petitions are short and simple. They should both be accompanied by a fact sheet for signers to understand the issue. The legislator petition should be accompanied by a cover sheet when delivered/sent. * The US Attorney petition signatures should be sent in by Sep 30. * An event to present the petition in person to the US Attorney's office will occur in October. * Local events to present petitions to local legislators in person are recommended. * We re-confirmed August 23 and August 30 as good dates for the next two coordinated protests. Some local groups will shift these dates or concentrate on other efforts. * For September, we agreed on two dates for coordinated events: 9/8 and 9/24. * 9/8 will be a national letter-writing day. We'll be assembling to write letters to congresspersons, industry leaders, etc. etc. about Dmitry. Some templates, etc. will be provided. * 9/24 will be a street demonstration, no coordinated theme as of yet. * We considered several organizational changes: forming an umbrella national group, aligning more closely with the EFF, or other mechanisms. We decided the current set up (lots of independent local groups staying closely connected through email) is "modular and scalable" (thanks, samp B-). * Afterwards, there was an open discussion on strategy and tactics for the next few months. Although a lot of good points were made, no particular consensus was arrived at. Interested people should check the IRC log; it is very good reading. Thanks to everyone who made it. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Aug 16 00:43:47 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Petition Goals Message-ID: <878zgkxxe4.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> For the national petition, should we try to set some numerical goals? What's impressive but realistic? 10,000 (about what the Dibona Declaration got)? 50,000? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From robertl1 at home.com Thu Aug 16 01:41:17 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:00 2005 Subject: WARNING: Flames follow Re: [free-sklyarov] Newsweek Article (8/20 Issue) In-Reply-To: <20010815235844.F53980@networkcommand.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010815112909.0214a6a0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010814224524.0241b3d0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> <01081420315201.02622@magnus99.localdomain> <01081420315201.02622@magnus99.localdomain> <20010814205923.C48239@networkcommand.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010814224524.0241b3d0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> <20010815094045.F49127@networkcommand.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010815112909.0214a6a0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010816011150.0246eeb0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> This message is intended for the free-sklyarov list. At 11:58 PM 8/15/01 -0700, you wrote: >Don't read this if you don't need any flames today. I too was having >a good day... > > > >It's bad manners to send private emails to the list. I did by mistake, I >hope you did too.. Actually, I sent mail to both you and the list. I know exactly what I did. Believe if I meant to exhibit "bad manners" I would be much more explicit. >Actually, I don't really care... OK. If you don't really care, why are you responding publically? I am responding because I do care. I care deeply. Despite your silly rhetoric I think you do as well. >You know what? You're totally right. I'm not going to waste my time making >these websites anymore. I'm not going to imagine we are having any impact >on the HUGE corporations. I'm not going to rally myself and the troops. I'm not >going to think one person can make a change. I'm not going to think >Hilter took over and killed many people even though it had to start >with someone. I'm not going to think Linus actually created a new >tool that many, many people use now. Where did I say that you were not having any impact on HUGE corpprations. All I did was to ask for you to be realistic in your assessment of that impact. I am sorry if that hurts. We are in a battle. I am on your side. Truth sometimes hurts. Sorry, but I am not responsible for reality. I just dont see that: >I can smell the smoldering remains of these over >protective, under encrypted, stomping Rights companies now... the "smoldering remains" you talk about. I truly wish I did. But I do not. All of us need to realize that this is a fight against great odds. It can be won, but it does no good to pretend it is a walk in the park. Or that Adobe, is a "smoldering remain" despite our common hopes. >No, even though you said EFF was ineffectual and now say they made >their best effort, I said that. It is true. I do believe the EFF made their best effort. That is profoundly different from being effective. Saddly. 99-0 for DMCA. Was the EFF EFFective? Did they give this their best EFFort? >there really is no reason to fight. I did not say that. I said the opposite. I said, plan to fight for the rest of your life. Does this bother you? Why? Do you really need assured and quick victory to fight? Why? I say, fight these bastards at every turn, every way, for as long as it takes! >I'll >just make a song and that will suffice. If people hear a good >Anti-DMCA song they will get out of this mess. No. I said that MP3 could turn out to be more effective than your website. Big difference. Of course I could be quite wrong. Time will tell. BTW, I have some minor problem with this notion of "your" web site, but I'll not dwell on it. Perhaps you will explain it to me. >You're right. Even though PDF is really the only thing you can use, expecting >the masses to cut back is insane. Especially cutting back while we've been >at this for 3 weeks. No, some of us have been at "this" for 30 years. You may have been at "it" for 3 weeks. That is part of the point. Plan for a long battle. Don't ever give up, even if the "old farts" irritate you :) >I'm also not going to imagine that your defeatist attitude actually >hurts morale or participation. We should all feel as beaten back >and attempt to prove that with numbers and fractions and as your >link shows, "the decline of the internet." Making a difference to even >just one person has no meaning as you have shown. >No, I lose, you lose, we all lose. No, you just need to be a whole lot tougher and realize just how serious this battle is. Don't depend on a continuous stream of victories to build your determination to fight. Fight on even if you lose repeatedly. Enjoy victories, plan to win, but don't depend on it. Fight on. This is the opposite of a defeatist attitude. >But wait, Dmitry is just one person. I am just one person. The other >people on this list are just one persons. Geez, a bunch of one >persons can cause a lot of fuss. And a lot more people must in the end be brought along. You seem to me (my view only, I don't speak for this list, do you?) to be terribly defensive. Why? >I hope you don't send other people off-list emails like this. Unlike me they >might actually read them Does this ambiguous sentence mean you did not read my email but just responded. I doubt that. Probably you read the mail. Or do you think people should not read mail that might contain arguments they disagree with? >and think you have a point or two... I have made several points or you would not be responding. >I hope you aren't some Microsoft Morale manipulation expert. I'm starting >to think that from your other emails: >http://zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/2001-August/003010.html No, but I do hope others on this list will take a look at the URL you have provided and realize how important these stuggles are. And how old they are. Dmitry is important but he is not in the least unique. This battle goes back to the caves our species emerged from. >If you would like to continue this enlightening discussion, you >should probably just send me email directly. I don't think the >others want to hear it. Well I think "the others" should judge for themselves. I certainly will not begin to judge for them, as apparently you wish to do. Again, Why? Frankly, I must admit that I do not really understand why you appear to be so upset. All I have said is that, not much has yet been accomplished, that there remains a lot to do, and that we should look forward to a long battle rather than a quick victory. Do you really disagree with that prognosis? Look Jon O. my bottom line is simple. I have no particular need to conduct a public debate with you that detracts progress of any movement that that forwards the cause of human freedom. I just hope that people will see that this is a battle that is best viewed as part of a lifetime committment to the struggle for humman freedom, and is not dependant upon the immediate outcome of some skirmish that in the grander scheme of things may or may not be seen as of profound importance. That said, I do think Dmitry's case is of profound importance and that we agree upon far more than we disagree upon. Regards, Bob La Quey From tom at lemuria.org Thu Aug 16 03:39:49 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [CYBERIA] Celebs Copyright DNA to prevent illegal Clones]] In-Reply-To: <20010815173504.B53372@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 05:35:04PM -0700 References: <20010815173504.B53372@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010816123949.B12070@lemuria.org> On Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 05:35:04PM -0700, Jon O . wrote: > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1492000/1492859.stm sorry, but this is OBVIOUS bullshit. copyright law grants limited rights to the AUTHORS for a WORK THEY CREATED. it's one of the few cases where the law uses plain language. if at all, you could maybe copyright your kids, but not yourself. From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Thu Aug 16 05:23:03 2001 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Brooklyn Linux Solutions CEO) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsweek Article (8/20 Issue) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010815112909.0214a6a0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> from Bob La Quey at "Aug 15, 2001 11:22:18 pm" Message-ID: <200108161223.f7GCN3a05411@www2.mrbrklyn.com> > > My real problem is not with cheerleading or being pleased with results > but with the sort of expectation that is raised by your rhetoric, > > >I can smell the smoldering remains of these over > >protective, under encrypted, stomping Rights companies now... > > I'm glad someone else said this. Demostrations and press aside, we aren't even a blip on the publics conscousness yet, or their congressional representitives. NYC also have about 8 protests a day....I question that our extra one is causing whole industries to burn assunder. We have a lot of work in front of us, and the demonstrations and stunts are only a very small part of that effort. Ruben From sonjat at cs.unm.edu Thu Aug 16 07:41:59 2001 From: sonjat at cs.unm.edu (Sonja V. Tideman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am going to assume this is not a troll (I am sort of naive that way). First of all, the opposition against laws such as the DMCA has nothing to do with opposition to copyright in general. Although many may hold strong beliefs against copyright, one does not have to hold these beliefs to be strongly opposed to the DMCA. Copyright is a delicate bargain. The government creates a temporary artificial monopoly on a creative work to allow the creator to gain a profit. In return, the public gets the benefit of using, and eventually gaining, that piece of work. The key part of copyright, the nasty truth that everyone seems so ready to forget, is that it is for the benefit of the public. It is NOT for the benefit of business, or even for the creators. It, of course, hopes to enable the creators to profit from their work, but, if copyright ceases to benefit society as a whole, that the constitutional basis of copyright is ruined. If the damage to society in the support of copyright is greater than the benefit, constitutional copyright is again ruined. I personally feel that the DMCA destroys any notion of the balance. It takes away all concepts of fair use. You may mock fair use, but if society does not have certain guarantees as to how they may use a copyrighted work, how has society benefited from it? The DMCA nullifies copyright limits, and allows the creators to control every access, every use. Any benefit to society is dramatically limited. Add to this the fact that the DMCA takes away our freedom of speech, and the harm to society has outweighed the benefit. There is no more balance; there is only corporate greed. I also find it slightly comical that you suggest that Russia's economic troubles stem from weak copyright laws, ignoring every single fact and analysis of Russia I have ever seen. Russia has a lot of troubles, and I don't think very many of them can be traced back to pirated software. Sonja On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, y s wrote: > Do you really believe in trolls, Rabbi Sassaman? I am very real, even if you > don't like my opinion. > The fact that somebody else posted from my computer (and I think I know who > it was), does not change the validity of my point. > Yes, I am "still here", and I plan to post more when I have time, partially > because I have some experience most of you don't have: I used to live in > Russia for the most of my life. When I saw protestors waving Russian flags, > I was saddened. It reminded me of David Duke who went there for support (and > found it, BTW). > Russia now is struggling to enforce very basic laws, put aside the > copyright protection. Do you know that in Russia pirate software is sold > everywhere almost openly, and you can buy any software for a couple of bucks > (and most people do)? I am pretty sure your hero Dmitry didn't even know > about Fair Use until he was jailed. There is no need for it in Russia, the > idea itself sounds ridiculous. (Fortunately, you people enlightened him.) Is > this the ideal situation most of you want to see in this country? > Many years of Communist rule destroyed respect for private property in the > former Soviet Union. This is one of the reasons why Russia, with all its > tremendous natural resources an great human potential, is now among the > poorest countries in the world, while the United States is still one of the > richest. Seems like many of you guys here don't like it. > Yes, you should see more of my disagreement with you here. If you don't see > my messages, it most likely means I am blocked from this list. It would be > really funny, considering you strong position on free speech... > > >From: Len Sassaman > > >Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" > >Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:23:09 -0700 (PDT) > > > >Why are you still here, "y s"? You've already been exposed as a troll. > >Enough is enough. > > > >On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, y s wrote: > > > > > Of course, you need it to exercise your right of Fair Use. > > > However, why don't _YOU_ write one? You would be pretty safe in New > >Zealand > > > (Unless you come with presentation to DefCon.) > > > What, not enough gray matter? That's bad, you may need some... > > > > > > >From: "Daniel Richards" > > > >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > > > >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" > > > >Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:32:27 +1200 > > > > > > > >Short and simple. > > > >Has anyone written another program that will "process" adobe's > > > >ebooks into pdf/html/txt/etc? > > > >Is anyone writing one? > > > >(you'd probably want to publish it anonymously, heh) > > > >If anyone knows or is doing such a thing, could you please email > > > >me (Off list, use PGP) > > > > > > > >http://www.freesklyarov.org - Free Dmitry! > > > >PGP Pub key: > > > >http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/DanielRPubKey.asc > > > >Fingerprint: 416D 4027 D635 AF51 F2BF 60DF 4D94 F7A0 9893 2848 > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > >Len Sassaman > > > >Security Architect | > >Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." > > | > >http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From admin at seattle-chat.com Thu Aug 16 07:49:57 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW: Professor unveils anti-copying flaws Message-ID: Article mentions Dmitry also. http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5095789,00.html?chkpt=zdhpnews 01 From sklyarov at openwire.com Thu Aug 16 08:52:21 2001 From: sklyarov at openwire.com (Jay Allen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Spam from the free-sklyarov list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010816084940.00adbfd0@mail.jlizard.com> Wonderful. It looks as though a spammer has been reading our posts. The following is part of a spam I received to the address I created for this list and this list only. Be warned... Anyone have time to chase down this bastard and get them nuked? -j- -------------------------- Received: from zone-i.co.kr (IDENT:root@[211.32.147.200]) by jlizard.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA01411 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 04:15:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host (07-019.024.popsite.net [66.19.3.19]) by zone-i.co.kr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15113; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:13:11 +0900 Message-Id: <200108161113.UAA15113@zone-i.co.kr> From: "Sue Meadow" Subject: All Gold #1013 To: lism4rd@zone-i.co.kr X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V??D.1712.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 06:44:36 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007F_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: fa84248e3dbed6c4b30fdb380bd98718 Dear Candidate, You have been selected as a potential candidate for a free listing in the 2001 Edition of the International Executive Guild Registry. Please accept our congratulations for this coveted honor. From MLarma at eFuel.com Thu Aug 16 08:46:05 2001 From: MLarma at eFuel.com (Larma, Mark) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Spam from the free-sklyarov list Message-ID: <1E50F10694062B4D922862B413D01C9E04B3@efuelmail.efuel.com> I got that too, but thought it was something tied to the normal spam I get at work. Sorry, I can't nuke 'em this week as I don't have the missile codes. (I had them last week, but I think it is Bob's turn to keep them this week) Seriouly, spam is very annoying to say the least, especially when pulled from a list such as this one. **** **** To get back on topic... Anyone heard anything about Dima this week? I was going to send him something like a care package while he is in California so that he doesn't feel totally abused by Americans. Also, I am taking any suggestions for what to send as well. Thanks! Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jay Allen [mailto:sklyarov@openwire.com] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 11:52 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Spam from the free-sklyarov list Wonderful. It looks as though a spammer has been reading our posts. The following is part of a spam I received to the address I created for this list and this list only. Be warned... Anyone have time to chase down this bastard and get them nuked? -j- -------------------------- Received: from zone-i.co.kr (IDENT:root@[211.32.147.200]) by jlizard.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA01411 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 04:15:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host (07-019.024.popsite.net [66.19.3.19]) by zone-i.co.kr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15113; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:13:11 +0900 Message-Id: <200108161113.UAA15113@zone-i.co.kr> From: "Sue Meadow" Subject: All Gold #1013 To: lism4rd@zone-i.co.kr X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V??D.1712.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 06:44:36 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007F_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: fa84248e3dbed6c4b30fdb380bd98718 Dear Candidate, You have been selected as a potential candidate for a free listing in the 2001 Edition of the International Executive Guild Registry. Please accept our congratulations for this coveted honor. _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From wiljan at pobox.com Thu Aug 16 09:44:19 2001 From: wiljan at pobox.com (Will Janoschka) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] re: Celebs Message-ID: <200108161605.LAA000.81@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> On Thur, Aug 16, 2001 at 12:39:49 +2700, Tom wrote: > sorry, but this is OBVIOUS bullshit. copyright law grants limited > rights to the AUTHORS for a WORK THEY CREATED. it's one of the few > cases where the law uses plain language. if at all, you could maybe > copyright your kids, but not yourself. How about "Copyright law grants unlimited rights to large corporations so such corporations may exploit the creative work of others." Please give an example where an individual creator of a work (not copyright holder) has prevailed in copyright infringement action, say, in the last 30 years. From sisgeek at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 09:47:51 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010816164751.63179.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com> hi sonja, even if it was a troll - all of us benefit from your reminder that the focus is on the public benefit, a principle seemingly subsumed in the national market economics of intellectual property - ignore the trolls and keep writing:) --- "Sonja V. Tideman" wrote: > I am going to assume this is not a troll (I am sort > of naive that way). > > First of all, the opposition against laws such as > the DMCA has nothing to > do with opposition to copyright in general. > Although many may hold strong > beliefs against copyright, one does not have to hold > these beliefs to be > strongly opposed to the DMCA. Copyright is a > delicate bargain. The > government creates a temporary artificial monopoly > on a creative work to > allow the creator to gain a profit. In return, the > public gets the > benefit of using, and eventually gaining, that piece > of work. The key > part of copyright, the nasty truth that everyone > seems so ready to forget, > is that it is for the benefit of the public. It is > NOT for the benefit of > business, or even for the creators. It, of course, > hopes to enable the > creators to profit from their work, but, if > copyright ceases to benefit > society as a whole, that the constitutional basis of > copyright is > ruined. If the damage to society in the support of > copyright is greater > than the benefit, constitutional copyright is again > ruined. I personally > feel that the DMCA destroys any notion of the > balance. It takes away all > concepts of fair use. You may mock fair use, but if > society does not have > certain guarantees as to how they may use a > copyrighted work, how has > society benefited from it? The DMCA nullifies > copyright limits, and > allows the creators to control every access, every > use. Any benefit to > society is dramatically limited. Add to this the > fact that the DMCA takes > away our freedom of speech, and the harm to society > has outweighed the > benefit. There is no more balance; there is only > corporate greed. > > I also find it slightly comical that you suggest > that Russia's economic > troubles stem from weak copyright laws, ignoring > every single fact and > analysis of Russia I have ever seen. Russia has a > lot of troubles, and I > don't think very many of them can be traced back to > pirated software. > > Sonja > > > On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, y s wrote: > > > Do you really believe in trolls, Rabbi Sassaman? I > am very real, even if you > > don't like my opinion. > > The fact that somebody else posted from my > computer (and I think I know who > > it was), does not change the validity of my point. > > Yes, I am "still here", and I plan to post more > when I have time, partially > > because I have some experience most of you don't > have: I used to live in > > Russia for the most of my life. When I saw > protestors waving Russian flags, > > I was saddened. It reminded me of David Duke who > went there for support (and > > found it, BTW). > > Russia now is struggling to enforce very basic > laws, put aside the > > copyright protection. Do you know that in Russia > pirate software is sold > > everywhere almost openly, and you can buy any > software for a couple of bucks > > (and most people do)? I am pretty sure your hero > Dmitry didn't even know > > about Fair Use until he was jailed. There is no > need for it in Russia, the > > idea itself sounds ridiculous. (Fortunately, you > people enlightened him.) Is > > this the ideal situation most of you want to see > in this country? > > Many years of Communist rule destroyed respect for > private property in the > > former Soviet Union. This is one of the reasons > why Russia, with all its > > tremendous natural resources an great human > potential, is now among the > > poorest countries in the world, while the United > States is still one of the > > richest. Seems like many of you guys here don't > like it. > > Yes, you should see more of my disagreement with > you here. If you don't see > > my messages, it most likely means I am blocked > from this list. It would be > > really funny, considering you strong position on > free speech... > > > > >From: Len Sassaman > > > > >Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook > "processor" > > >Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:23:09 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > >Why are you still here, "y s"? You've already > been exposed as a troll. > > >Enough is enough. > > > > > >On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, y s wrote: > > > > > > > Of course, you need it to exercise your right > of Fair Use. > > > > However, why don't _YOU_ write one? You would > be pretty safe in New > > >Zealand > > > > (Unless you come with presentation to DefCon.) > > > > What, not enough gray matter? That's bad, you > may need some... > > > > > > > > >From: "Daniel Richards" > > > > > >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > > > > >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook > "processor" > > > > >Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:32:27 +1200 > > > > > > > > > >Short and simple. > > > > >Has anyone written another program that will > "process" adobe's > > > > >ebooks into pdf/html/txt/etc? > > > > >Is anyone writing one? > > > > >(you'd probably want to publish it > anonymously, heh) > > > > >If anyone knows or is doing such a thing, > could you please email > > > > >me (Off list, use PGP) > > > > > > > > > >http://www.freesklyarov.org - Free Dmitry! > > > > >PGP Pub key: > > > > > >http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/DanielRPubKey.asc > > > > >Fingerprint: 416D 4027 D635 AF51 F2BF 60DF > 4D94 F7A0 9893 2848 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > > > >Len Sassaman > > > > > >Security Architect | > > >Technology Consultant | "Let be be > finale of seem." > > > | > > >http://sion.quickie.net | > --Wallace Stevens > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From jono at microshaft.org Thu Aug 16 09:51:45 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsweek Article (8/20 Issue) In-Reply-To: <200108161223.f7GCN3a05411@www2.mrbrklyn.com>; from ruben@mrbrklyn.com on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 08:23:03AM -0400 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010815112909.0214a6a0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> <200108161223.f7GCN3a05411@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20010816095145.G53980@networkcommand.com> Ok, so I'll make sure not to use any puffery or hyperbole in the future, people don't seem to understand the companies are not smoldering it's a figure of speech. However, people are noticing and do see the effort you all are putting in. That is what needs to be understood. For example: Adobe's sales lag; profit on track http://www0.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/depth/adobe073101.htm The economy was not Adobe's only worry in July. The company's image took a beating after Adobe encouraged the federal government to prosecute Elcom, a Russian company that had distributed code to crack the security features in Adobe's software for electronic documents. The grass roots response in the software developer community was quick and furious. ``Last Monday, which was the height of the activity, I think I counted up to 1,700 e-mails that I had gotten throughout the week,'' Chizen said. Since Adobe began advocating for Sklyarov's release, he said the number has come down to a couple per day. So, I'm not suggesting the companies are actually smoldering for those who take each word so literally. Simply that this stuff does matter to them, they are seeing it and the efforts are having some impact. I think that impact should be respected and honoured. On 16-Aug-2001, Brooklyn Linux Solutions CEO wrote: > > > > My real problem is not with cheerleading or being pleased with results > > but with the sort of expectation that is raised by your rhetoric, > > > > >I can smell the smoldering remains of these over > > >protective, under encrypted, stomping Rights companies now... > > > > > I'm glad someone else said this. Demostrations and press aside, > we aren't even a blip on the publics conscousness yet, or their > congressional representitives. > > > NYC also have about 8 protests a day....I question that our extra one > is causing whole industries to burn assunder. We have a lot of work in > front of us, and the demonstrations and stunts are only a very small part > of that effort. > > Ruben > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From sisgeek at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 10:14:29 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [CYBERIA] Celebs Copyright DNA to prevent illegal Clones]] In-Reply-To: <20010816123949.B12070@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20010816171429.67631.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com> i think this is a hilarious - this falls into the same category as the "stars" who store their sperm/eggs because they suffer delusions that they have something to contribute to society beyond a a set of tits and or a made-up face. will "marilyn monroe" be remembered for contributing anything to society beyond a set of tits and made-up face - we don't need her dna for this - we have silicon graphics (no pun intended)! --- Tom wrote: > On Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 05:35:04PM -0700, Jon O . > wrote: > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1492000/1492859.stm > > sorry, but this is OBVIOUS bullshit. copyright law > grants limited > rights to the AUTHORS for a WORK THEY CREATED. it's > one of the few > cases where the law uses plain language. if at all, > you could maybe > copyright your kids, but not yourself. > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From jono at microshaft.org Thu Aug 16 10:17:13 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FC: AP reportedly doesn't like quoting one sentence from articles Message-ID: <20010816101713.J53980@networkcommand.com> FYI: ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- X-Sender: declan@mail.well.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:48:01 -0400 To: politech@politechbot.com From: Declan McCullagh Subject: FC: AP reportedly doesn't like quoting one sentence from articles Cc: info@ap.org, copyright@ap.org, holovacs@1st.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: declan@well.com X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ X-Author: Declan McCullagh is at http://www.mccullagh.org/ X-News-Site: Cluebot is at http://www.cluebot.com/ A Politech irregular, Jay Holovacs , reports the Associated Press has pressured about.com to remove excerpted AP stories (with links to the offsite complete text) from the site if even one sentence is quoted. Two items follow: 1. Mail from Jay with links to about.com's moderator announcement 2. A note to Jay from Austin Cline, the about.com forum moderator -Declan ******** From: "JayHolovacs" To: "Declan McCullagh" Subject: Re: New copyright interpretations Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:40:17 -0400 http://forums.about.com/ab-atheism/messages?msg=12714.1 I believe you can log on as 'guest' at . http://forums.about.com/ab-atheism if you don't wish to register. quote from the host: "I have some bad news to convey to everyone - AP and other news services have decided to be quite strict in how they interpret their copyrights. Before, it was always assumed to be OK if we just quoted a couple of sentences from a news story and then provided a link - it was copying all or most of a story which we had to avoid. But not any more. Quoting even one sentence, if it conveys the gist of the entire story, isn't something that they want to permit now. ... They are serious about this. They have already been in contact with About over Guides who have done nothing more than quote the first couple of lines on their sites, along with a link back to the full story. " jay ******** >How much publicly available description of these restrictions do you >have here? Especially do you have a quote of the way that AP worded their >demands? I don't have access to any of that information. Even if I did, I doubt I would be allowed to tell people - this is lawyer stuff, and so it's all probably confidential. But it is unlikely that About would have told us to remove the AP stuff from our sites (and, when it was brought up, say that we need to be careful about what appears on the forums) if they didn't think that AP had a case. Demanding this of the Guides creates both more short-term work and more long-term work. It's annoying for everyone and doesn't serve any good end otherwise. [...] The main issues seems to be quality, rather than quantity. Quoting the first couple of sentences of an article is not much in amount, but it might convey the gist of the article - all of the basic information. In doing so, you eliminate the need for most people to go on and read the whole thing. This, then, reduce the value of the original. By that standard, of course, you should be able to quote something low-quality in an article, but which sounds good. For example "And the author of this article says "This is the best thing since sliced bread!" - you aren't quoting something that gives away all the information, just something you find interesting. Finding that a high-quality passage is a copyright infringement when a low-quality passage of similar length is not is not common, but mostly because it doesn't come up much. It is, however, something that has been ruled on in favor of copyright holders. I hope this helps... Regards, Austin Cline: http://atheism.about.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- End forwarded message ----- _______________________________________________ ------------------------ http://www.anti-dmca.org ------------------------ DMCA_discuss mailing list DMCA_discuss@lists.microshaft.org http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss ----- End forwarded message ----- From jeme at brelin.net Thu Aug 16 11:04:41 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Sonja V. Tideman wrote: > First of all, the opposition against laws such as the DMCA has nothing > to do with opposition to copyright in general. As I think I've said on this list before, Digital distribution Effective copyright protection Free speech Pick 2. Without the DMCA, we'd still have corporations encrypting their copyrighted work and distributing it with all kinds of "license restrictions" and fighting in civil rather than criminal court to suppress expression that they perceive to be detrimental to profit. Those civil suits and the threat of civil suit would do as much to quell free speech as an outright ban. > Copyright is a delicate bargain. The government creates a temporary > artificial monopoly on a creative work to allow the creator to gain a > profit. This is the propaganda of the copyright industry and an absolute lie. The public (through their agency, the government) restricts, for a limited time, the natural rights of the majority to distribute copies or derivatives of individual expressions of an idea and reserves those rights exclusively, for that same limited time, for the creator of the work AS LONG AS THE CREATOR MAKES THE WORK PUBLIC. Without publication, there is no impetus for the public to restrict its natural rights to distribute the expression. Publication means making a work available to the public in a usable form. Distribution via license or distribution of an encrypted version of an expression IS NOT PUBLICATION. Unless the public retains ALL RIGHTS NOT EXPLICITLY RESERVED FOR THE AUTHOR, there is no publication. If a publisher distributes a work that is specifically designed to prevent the public's exercise of their rights, there is no publication. The Berne Convention was a sort of treaty signed by the United States (among other nations) that contained ideas eventually expressed in the United States as a rewrite of the Copyright Act. In particular, the Berne Convention requires signatory nations to protect copyright on unpublished expressions and removes the requirement of publication via registration of a copyrighted expression with the Library of Congress. This is directly opposed to the Congressional mandate set forward in the Constitution to promote progress and directly opposed to the bargain struck between the public and authors. The Berne Convention is another example of an industry, created by a public trust, using its influence to leverage and subvert the will and benefit of the public. The copyright bargain is one in which the public gets to use an expression and an author gets to ensure that the expression remains true to its intent. These rights are reserved for only a limited time because it is the nature of expressions to evolve and it is to the public benefit and the progress of all mankind that expressions be allowed to evolve. Eventually, it is necessary for the public to be able to digest and regurgitate the expression in other forms not approved by the author. It's important to note, I think, that the Constitution of the United States carefully states that the mandate of Congress is "to promote the progress of science and the useful arts" with appropriate legislation of a form that secures "the exclusive rights of authors and inventors to their respective writings and discoveries". Modern copyright is only rarely used to protect the integrity of a scientific work. Mostly, copyright is used to protect those practitioners of the fine arts. It was wise and insightful of our forefathers to intentionally neglect the fine arts in their clause. It is the nature of fine art to feed upon itself. Fine art exists, some would argue, to reflect the culture and encourage other expression in that reflection. A mirror can infringe copyright and fine art is a mirror. If the fine arts (such as painting, poetry, non-scientific writing, and sculpture; as opposed to the useful arts, such as carpentry, smithery, and architecture) are not allowed to feed on each other in a cannibalistic way, it stagnates and becomes dreary or debauched. This is the state of the modern fine arts, in my opinion. And this state is perpetuated by and was originally brought into being as the natural outcome of the extension of copyright to the fine arts. To promote the progress of science and the useful arts, Authors and inventors are granted some exclusive rights to THEIR RESPECTIVE writings and discoveries. This is very precise language to me. It says two things: To promote science, (scientific) authors are granted exclusive rights to their writings. To promote the useful arts, inventors are granted exclusive rights to their discoveries. Those are the foundations of copyright and patent. How far we've strayed! Authors are not granted exclusive rights to their discoveries... IDEAS cannot be copyrighted or patented, only particular expressions in writing. Inventors are not granted exclusive rights to the object, only their DISCOVERY. Hence, independent discovery is still a right reserved by the public. > In return, the public gets the benefit of using, and eventually > gaining, that piece of work. This requires, I hope you see, that the work be presented to the public in a usable form. An unusable form means that at least the first part of the bargain is not fulfilled. The unreasonably long periods of time in current copyright law mean that the public that grants these exclusive rights to authors will not be alive to reap the benefits and so that side of the bargain is not fulfilled either. > The key part of copyright, the nasty truth that everyone seems so > ready to forget, is that it is for the benefit of the public. It is > NOT for the benefit of business, or even for the creators. When you state that copyright is there to allow for profit, you are implicitly relating copyright to business needs. Remember that copyright protects the individual pamphleteer as well. And he is not writing for the sake of mere profit. > It, of course, hopes to enable the creators to profit from their work, > but, if copyright ceases to benefit society as a whole, that the > constitutional basis of copyright is ruined. It is merely incidental that profit can be gained through exploitation of copyrights. It is, albeit, a happy accident in some cases. > If the damage to society in the support of copyright is greater than > the benefit, constitutional copyright is again ruined. Or if both ends of the bargain are not held up in good faith... > I personally feel that the DMCA destroys any notion of the balance. The Berne Convention destroyed balance. The Sony Bono Copyright Extension Act destroyed balance. The Telecommunications Act of 1996 destroyed balance. In fact, ever since the fine arts were incorporated into copyright at the turn of the last century, the balance has been steadily tilting away from the public. > It takes away all concepts of fair use. Well, the Copyright Extension Act takes away all concepts of "limited times". And the Berne Convention took away the concept of public benefit entirely thirty years ago. > You may mock fair use, but if society does not have certain guarantees > as to how they may use a copyrighted work, how has society benefited > from it? This is a proper question, but there are several more that are required to retain any real balance. If the public never receives their rights back in full, how has society benefitted? If the expression is never made available to the public, let alone in a usable form, why should the public restrict its rights and grant them exclusively to an author at all? > The DMCA nullifies copyright limits, and allows the creators > to control every access, every use. Actually, the DMCA protects publishers much more than creators or even copyright holders. > Add to this the fact that the DMCA takes away our freedom of speech, > and the harm to society has outweighed the benefit. Copyright as a whole limits free speech. It was decided some time ago that the benefit to the public in voluntarily restricting speech was greater than the benefit of completely free speech. I personally disagree (especially in the modern age where publication no longer requires massive captial investment) and think that the First Amendment to the Constitution was passed to negate any restrictions to the press under the Copyright Clause. The courts disagreed at some point and that decision has not yet been overturned. As I like to say, 'What part of "Congress shall make NO LAW" don't you understand?' > There is no more balance; there is only corporate greed. Again, the DMCA is only the final straw... it's not enough to pick off that one straw when the entire camel is burried and broken. We need a pitchfork. > I also find it slightly comical that you suggest that Russia's > economic troubles stem from weak copyright laws ignoring every single > fact and analysis of Russia I have ever seen. Russia has a lot of > troubles, and I don't think very many of them can be traced back to > pirated software. I've always found it very promising that much of the Eastern world has no concept of OWNERSHIP of something as ephemeral as information. This shows the truth in the argument that copyright is not a natural right, but an artificial one... and that sharing ideas freely and without restriction is the natural right that deserves protection. When "y s" suggested that "pirate software" was the result of a lack of respect for private property, I spit out my water for fear of choking. The equation of the exclusive rights granted in copyright or patent to real property is absurd and misleading. It implies that information has the same restricted usability as a physical object; the same inherent scarcity. That is simply not true and never will be. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From xyz at kalifornia.com Thu Aug 16 10:59:39 2001 From: xyz at kalifornia.com (xyz@kalifornia.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] re: Celebs In-Reply-To: <200108161605.LAA000.81@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> Message-ID: So, by Tom's explanation... By the rational that AUTHORS can copyright WORK THEY CREATED, The Church could copyright all DNA being that they are (in effect) Agents of God and have the authority over His work? Proof that not only is US law seriously flawed, but so is The Church. Glad I'm not Catholic. -D > On Thur, Aug 16, 2001 at 12:39:49 +2700, Tom wrote: > > sorry, but this is OBVIOUS bullshit. copyright law grants limited > > rights to the AUTHORS for a WORK THEY CREATED. it's one of the few > > cases where the law uses plain language. if at all, you could maybe > > copyright your kids, but not yourself. > > How about "Copyright law grants unlimited rights to large corporations > so such corporations may exploit the creative work of others." > > Please give an example where an individual creator of a work > (not copyright holder) has prevailed in copyright infringement action, > say, in the last 30 years. > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From csm at MoonGroup.com Thu Aug 16 11:20:34 2001 From: csm at MoonGroup.com (Chuck Mead) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] re: Celebs In-Reply-To: <200108161605.LAA000.81@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Will Janoschka posted the following: WJ>On Thur, Aug 16, 2001 at 12:39:49 +2700, Tom wrote: WJ>> sorry, but this is OBVIOUS bullshit. copyright law grants limited WJ>> rights to the AUTHORS for a WORK THEY CREATED. it's one of the few WJ>> cases where the law uses plain language. if at all, you could maybe WJ>> copyright your kids, but not yourself. WJ> WJ>How about "Copyright law grants unlimited rights to large corporations WJ> so such corporations may exploit the creative work of others." WJ> WJ>Please give an example where an individual creator of a work WJ>(not copyright holder) has prevailed in copyright infringement action, WJ>say, in the last 30 years. This comment of yours became a part of a discussion going on at advogato.org today. Here was my response there, to your question here on free-sklyarov: I think this is a relevant question... I'm sure they exist but I'll go out on a limb and say that the stats would clearly reveal the grotesque inequity visited on individual complainants in our civil courts. Unless you are a gazillionaire there is no justice any more for individuals because there is no equality under the law. Corporations, have paid for the laws they need to maintain their priority at the head of the line. The rest of us peasants can take a number and stand in the queue! The Advogato discussion is happening here: http://www.advogato.org/article/323.html - -- csm "...software engineers, as Percy Bysshe Shelley said of poets, are the unacknowledged legislators of our time. acknowledge this reality and try to shape it..." - stille/lessig -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjt8DvQACgkQv6Gjsf2pQ0rd0QCfeTIoXx6NvMaHMn8oqMMhm5zz tPIAnR9T9TwCh2YlFSnqfq13MgEUyOk3 =GkkJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From robertl1 at home.com Thu Aug 16 11:23:52 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsweek Article (8/20 Issue) In-Reply-To: <20010816095145.G53980@networkcommand.com> References: <200108161223.f7GCN3a05411@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010815112909.0214a6a0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> <200108161223.f7GCN3a05411@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010816112009.02a442f0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> At 09:51 AM 8/16/01 -0700, you wrote: >Ok, so I'll make sure not to use any puffery or hyperbole in the future, >people don't seem to understand the companies are not smoldering >it's a figure of speech. > >However, people are noticing and do see the effort you all are putting in. >That is what needs to be understood. > >For example: >Adobe's sales lag; profit on track >http://www0.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/depth/adobe073101.htm > >The economy was not Adobe's only worry in July. The company's image took a beating after Adobe encouraged the federal government to prosecute Elcom, a Russian company that had distributed code to crack the security features in Adobe's software for electronic documents. > >The grass roots response in the software developer community was quick and furious. > >``Last Monday, which was the height of the activity, I think I counted up to 1,700 e-mails that I had gotten throughout the week,'' Chizen said. Since Adobe began advocating for Sklyarov's release, he said the number has come down to a couple per day. > > >So, I'm not suggesting the companies are actually smoldering for those >who take each word so literally. Simply that this stuff does matter >to them, they are seeing it and the efforts are having some impact. > >I think that impact should be respected and honoured. I totally agree with this. Moreover I certainly do believe that ADobe should not be let off the hook. They initiated the complaint that put Dmitry in jail in the first place. Where do they get off with just saying, "I'm sorry, I really did not mean it."? Bob La Quey From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Aug 16 12:09:46 2001 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] re: Celebs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010816120946.A10896@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> begin Chuck Mead quotation: > This comment of yours became a part of a discussion going on at > advogato.org today. Here was my response there, to your question here on > free-sklyarov: > > I think this is a relevant question... I'm sure they exist but I'll go > out on a limb and say that the stats would clearly reveal the grotesque > inequity visited on individual complainants in our civil courts. Unless > you are a gazillionaire there is no justice any more for individuals > because there is no equality under the law. I can put this in perspective with a case from a bit _over_ thirty years ago. On December 26, 1968, my father, Pan Am Captain Arthur Moen, was killed by a defective-from-the-factory Boeing 707 (along with all the other occupants of Pan American Flight 7). Within a couple of days, my mother was visited by private detectives attempting to extort her into not filing lawsuit. During the six years of pre-trial delaying tactics that followed, my family was audited by the Internal Revenue Service every year, apparently on the basis of "tips" from undisclosed persons. When Boeing Company could no longer delay the trial, in 1974, it asserted to the incredulous judge that all flight-recording records had mysteriously vanished -- and then it settled. (This was hard on the heels of news about Rosemary Woods and the missing 18 minutes of Nixon recordings.) My mother emerged with life-threatening clinical depression and hypertension. We won -- sort of. Regards, Frederick Arthur Moen From jono at microshaft.org Thu Aug 16 12:23:18 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [declan@well.com: FC: More on AP not wanting one sentence quoted from articles] Message-ID: <20010816122318.D58039@networkcommand.com> More on the AP. Interesting quote: What AP is doing is leveraging the "take down" provisions of 17 USC 512 to chill public speech. ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- X-Sender: declan@mail.well.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:51:51 -0400 To: politech@politechbot.com From: Declan McCullagh Subject: FC: More on AP not wanting one sentence quoted from articles Cc: mallapollack@niu.edu, PLEVY@citizen.org, info@ap.org, copyright@ap.org, holovacs@1st.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: declan@well.com X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ X-Author: Declan McCullagh is at http://www.mccullagh.org/ X-News-Site: Cluebot is at http://www.cluebot.com/ Previous Politech message: http://www.politechbot.com/p-02398.html ********** Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:32:13 -0500 From: "Malla Pollack" To: Subject: Re: FC: AP reportedly doesn't like quoting one sentence from articles Hi I am a pro-public domain intellectual property specialist. What AP is doing is leveraging the "take down" provisions of 17 USC 512 to chill public speech. This is the outcome many academic commentators dreaded when the section was enacted. See, e.g. Malla Pollack, The Right to Know?, 17 Cardozo Arts & Ent. L.J. 47 (1999). To limit this hazard, we need to make a clear record of exactly what AP (and other copyholders) are alleging to be copyright violations. I would appreciate affected parties sending me such details for compilation. Unfortunately, I do not have the resources to litigate these fights. I would suggest as possibilities the ACLU or Prof. Pam Samuelson at Univ. of Cal., Berkeley, School of Law. Public ridicule has sometimes worked as Politech readers should know. Malla Pollack Northern Illinois Univ., College of Law DeKalb, Illinois 60115 815-753-1160; (fax) 815-753-9499 mallapollack@niu.edu ********** Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:22:48 -0400 From: "Paul Levy" To: , Cc: , , Subject: Re: FC: AP reportedly doesn't like quoting one sentence from articles I respectfully disagree with a few of the assumptions made here: Paul Alan Levy Public Citizen Litigation Group 1600 - 20th Street, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20009 (202) 588-1000 http://www.citizen.org/litigation/litigation.html >>> Declan McCullagh 08/16/01 10:48AM >>> SNIP > >How much publicly available description of these restrictions do you > >have here? Especially do you have a quote of the way that AP worded their > >demands? >I don't have access to any of that information. Even if I did, I >doubt I would be allowed to tell people - this is lawyer stuff, and >so it's all probably confidential. It is up to About to decide what it wants to go public with, but there is no legal requirement that a person receives an outrageous demand letter, that the sending party ought to be embarrassed about, to keep the letter secret. >But it is unlikely that About would have told us to remove the AP >stuff from our sites (and, when it was brought up, say that we need >to be careful about what appears on the forums) if they didn't think >that AP had a case. Demanding this of the Guides creates both more >short-term work and more long-term work. It's annoying for everyone >and doesn't serve any good end otherwise. "had a case": well, could AP file the lawsuit without facing Rule 11 sanctions for frivolous litigation? And so, could their lawyers pursue the matter against About, recognizing that AP has a much deeper pocket? yes, probably. But would AP win in the end? I should hope not. Of course, as this comntinues, this is a fact-intensive analysis, and maybe About wants to avoid facing this kind of litigation (or this kind of lawyer read whenever a quote is used) and finds it easier to tell its Guides not to do it at all. A campaign to humiliate AP is the best tactic. Let's get that demand letter public! ********** ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- End forwarded message ----- From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Thu Aug 16 12:26:13 2001 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Brooklyn Linux Solutions) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FC: AP reportedly doesn't like quoting one sentence from articles In-Reply-To: <20010816101713.J53980@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 13:17:13 -0400 References: <20010816101713.J53980@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010816152613.K8748@www2> about has an interesting news system with contracts that go beyond the scope of this list. On 2001.08.16 13:17:13 -0400 Jon O . wrote: FYI: ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- X-Sender: declan@mail.well.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:48:01 -0400 To: politech@politechbot.com From: Declan McCullagh Subject: FC: AP reportedly doesn't like quoting one sentence from articles Cc: info@ap.org, copyright@ap.org, holovacs@1st.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: declan@well.com X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ X-Author: Declan McCullagh is at http://www.mccullagh.org/ X-News-Site: Cluebot is at http://www.cluebot.com/ A Politech irregular, Jay Holovacs , reports the Associated Press has pressured about.com to remove excerpted AP stories (with links to the offsite complete text) from the site if even one sentence is quoted. Two items follow: 1. Mail from Jay with links to about.com's moderator announcement 2. A note to Jay from Austin Cline, the about.com forum moderator -Declan ******** From: "JayHolovacs" To: "Declan McCullagh" Subject: Re: New copyright interpretations Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:40:17 -0400 http://forums.about.com/ab-atheism/messages?msg=12714.1 I believe you can log on as 'guest' at . http://forums.about.com/ab-atheism if you don't wish to register. quote from the host: "I have some bad news to convey to everyone - AP and other news services have decided to be quite strict in how they interpret their copyrights. Before, it was always assumed to be OK if we just quoted a couple of sentences from a news story and then provided a link - it was copying all or most of a story which we had to avoid. But not any more. Quoting even one sentence, if it conveys the gist of the entire story, isn't something that they want to permit now. ... They are serious about this. They have already been in contact with About over Guides who have done nothing more than quote the first couple of lines on their sites, along with a link back to the full story. " jay ******** >How much publicly available description of these restrictions do you >have here? Especially do you have a quote of the way that AP worded their >demands? I don't have access to any of that information. Even if I did, I doubt I would be allowed to tell people - this is lawyer stuff, and so it's all probably confidential. But it is unlikely that About would have told us to remove the AP stuff from our sites (and, when it was brought up, say that we need to be careful about what appears on the forums) if they didn't think that AP had a case. Demanding this of the Guides creates both more short-term work and more long-term work. It's annoying for everyone and doesn't serve any good end otherwise. [...] The main issues seems to be quality, rather than quantity. Quoting the first couple of sentences of an article is not much in amount, but it might convey the gist of the article - all of the basic information. In doing so, you eliminate the need for most people to go on and read the whole thing. This, then, reduce the value of the original. By that standard, of course, you should be able to quote something low-quality in an article, but which sounds good. For example "And the author of this article says "This is the best thing since sliced bread!" - you aren't quoting something that gives away all the information, just something you find interesting. Finding that a high-quality passage is a copyright infringement when a low-quality passage of similar length is not is not common, but mostly because it doesn't come up much. It is, however, something that has been ruled on in favor of copyright holders. I hope this helps... Regards, Austin Cline: http://atheism.about.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- End forwarded message ----- _______________________________________________ ------------------------ http://www.anti-dmca.org ------------------------ DMCA_discuss mailing list DMCA_discuss@lists.microshaft.org http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss ----- End forwarded message ----- _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Brooklyn Linux Solutions http://www.mrbrklyn.com http://www.brooklynonline.com 1-718-382-5752 From jono at microshaft.org Thu Aug 16 12:32:22 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FC: AP reportedly doesn't like quoting one sentence from articles In-Reply-To: <20010816152613.K8748@www2>; from ruben@mrbrklyn.com on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 03:26:13PM -0400 References: <20010816101713.J53980@networkcommand.com> <20010816152613.K8748@www2> Message-ID: <20010816123222.F58039@networkcommand.com> Yeah, and God knows this won't spread beyond about.com... On 16-Aug-2001, Brooklyn Linux Solutions wrote: > about has an interesting news system with contracts that go beyond the > scope of this > list. > > > On 2001.08.16 13:17:13 -0400 Jon O . wrote: > FYI: > > ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- > > X-Sender: declan@mail.well.com > X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 > Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:48:01 -0400 > To: politech@politechbot.com > From: Declan McCullagh > Subject: FC: AP reportedly doesn't like quoting one sentence from articles > Cc: info@ap.org, copyright@ap.org, holovacs@1st.net > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: declan@well.com > X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ > X-Author: Declan McCullagh is at http://www.mccullagh.org/ > X-News-Site: Cluebot is at http://www.cluebot.com/ > > A Politech irregular, Jay Holovacs , reports the > Associated Press has pressured about.com to remove excerpted AP stories > (with links to the offsite complete text) from the site if even one > sentence is quoted. > > Two items follow: > 1. Mail from Jay with links to about.com's moderator announcement > 2. A note to Jay from Austin Cline, the about.com forum moderator > > -Declan > > ******** > > From: "JayHolovacs" > To: "Declan McCullagh" > Subject: Re: New copyright interpretations > Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:40:17 -0400 > > http://forums.about.com/ab-atheism/messages?msg=12714.1 > > I believe you can log on as 'guest' at . > > http://forums.about.com/ab-atheism > > if you don't wish to register. > > quote from the host: > "I have some bad news to convey to everyone - AP and other news services > have decided to be quite strict in how they interpret their copyrights. > Before, it was always assumed to be OK if we just quoted a couple of > sentences from a news story and then provided a link - it was copying all > or > most of a story which we had to avoid. > But not any more. Quoting even one sentence, if it conveys the gist of the > entire story, isn't something that they want to permit now. > ... > They are serious about this. They have already been in contact with About > over Guides who have done nothing more than quote the first couple of lines > on their sites, along with a link back to the full story. " > > jay > > ******** > > >How much publicly available description of these restrictions do you > >have here? Especially do you have a quote of the way that AP worded their > >demands? > > I don't have access to any of that information. Even if I did, I > doubt I would be allowed to tell people - this is lawyer stuff, and > so it's all probably confidential. > > But it is unlikely that About would have told us to remove the AP > stuff from our sites (and, when it was brought up, say that we need > to be careful about what appears on the forums) if they didn't think > that AP had a case. Demanding this of the Guides creates both more > short-term work and more long-term work. It's annoying for everyone > and doesn't serve any good end otherwise. > > [...] > > The main issues seems to be quality, rather than quantity. Quoting > the first couple of sentences of an article is not much in amount, > but it might convey the gist of the article - all of the basic > information. In doing so, you eliminate the need for most people to > go on and read the whole thing. This, then, reduce the value of the > original. > > By that standard, of course, you should be able to quote something > low-quality in an article, but which sounds good. For example "And > the author of this article says "This is the best thing since sliced > bread!" - you aren't quoting something that gives away all the > information, just something you find interesting. > > Finding that a high-quality passage is a copyright infringement when > a low-quality passage of similar length is not is not common, but > mostly because it doesn't come up much. It is, however, something > that has been ruled on in favor of copyright holders. > > I hope this helps... > > > Regards, > > Austin Cline: http://atheism.about.com > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list > You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. > Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ > To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html > This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > _______________________________________________ > > > ------------------------ > http://www.anti-dmca.org > ------------------------ > > DMCA_discuss mailing list > DMCA_discuss@lists.microshaft.org > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > -- > Brooklyn Linux Solutions > http://www.mrbrklyn.com > http://www.brooklynonline.com > > 1-718-382-5752 From wendy at seltzer.com Thu Aug 16 12:48:13 2001 From: wendy at seltzer.com (Wendy Seltzer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FC: AP reportedly doesn't like quoting one sentence from articles In-Reply-To: <20010816152613.K8748@www2> References: <20010816101713.J53980@networkcommand.com> <20010816101713.J53980@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010816153322.0215e360@mailbox.bellatlantic.net> At 03:26 PM 8/16/01 -0400, Brooklyn Linux Solutions wrote: >about has an interesting news system with contracts that go beyond the >scope of this >list. And as a result allows itself to be cowed into telling its writers that copying a sentence of text is not fair use? Saying that use is barred by contract might stand or might not (depending on whether the About.com writers get the stories only through contract with AP and whether AP can use a "hot news" misappropriation claim to say its contracts are restricting something other than what copyright permits). If it is contract, though, why are they telling writers it's copyright and contributing to a narrowing of the general norms of fair use? --Wendy >On 2001.08.16 13:17:13 -0400 Jon O . wrote: >FYI: > >----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- > >X-Sender: declan@mail.well.com >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 >Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:48:01 -0400 >To: politech@politechbot.com >From: Declan McCullagh >Subject: FC: AP reportedly doesn't like quoting one sentence from articles >Cc: info@ap.org, copyright@ap.org, holovacs@1st.net >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: declan@well.com >X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ >X-Author: Declan McCullagh is at http://www.mccullagh.org/ >X-News-Site: Cluebot is at http://www.cluebot.com/ > >A Politech irregular, Jay Holovacs , reports the >Associated Press has pressured about.com to remove excerpted AP stories >(with links to the offsite complete text) from the site if even one >sentence is quoted. -- Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.com Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard Law School http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Aug 16 12:51:43 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [mech@eff.org: EFFector 14.20: ALERT: FTAA treaty DMCA-ized; Felten case ; anonymity] Message-ID: <20010816125143.A13920@zork.net> ----- Forwarded message from Stanton McCandlish ----- Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:22:26 -0700 From: mech@eff.org (Stanton McCandlish) Subject: EFFector 14.20: ALERT: FTAA treaty DMCA-ized; Felten case ; anonymity EFFector Vol. 14, No. 20 Aug 16, 2001 editor@eff.org A Publication of the Electronic Frontier Foundation ISSN 1062-9424 In the 180th Issue of EFFector (now with over 28,600 subscribers!): * ALERT: Hollywood Exports Technology Ban Overseas Despite US Abuse * Scientists Support Professor's Copyright Law Challenge * Court Protects Online Anonymity of Corporate Critics * Administrivia For more information on EFF activities & alerts: http://www.eff.org/ To join EFF or make an additional donation: http://www.eff.org/support/ EFF is a member-supported non-profit. Please sign up as a member today! _________________________________________________________________ ALERT: Hollywood Exports Technology Ban Overseas Despite US Abuse EFF Calls on Public to Intervene in Treaty Process Electronic Frontier Foundation ACTION ALERT (Issued: August 16, 2001 / Deadline: August 22, 2001) Introduction: [Para una versi?n espa?ol de esta alarma, que puede ser distribuida libremente, vaya a este URL (For a Spanish version of this alert, which may be freely distributed, go to this URL): http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010816_eff_ftaa_alert.es.html ] While Russian graduate student Dmitry Sklyarov potentially faces five years in prison under the first criminal prosecution of a controversial new US law, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) passed at the request of Hollywood in 1998, its backers are now busily exporting overseas its dangerous legal theories of excessive copyright protection at the price of civil liberties. Worldwide public intervention is immediately necessary to restore freedom of speech as a value promoted by free societies. The Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA) treaty process, which is under executive power, works to establish trade agreements between 34 countries in the Western hemisphere including the US. FTAA nation-signatories pass legislation in each of their national forums that conforms with the treaty's principles. Currently the group is negotiating language to include in an international treaty between the 34 countries that deals with enacting new copyright rules, among other issues. The FTAA organization is considering treaty language that mandates nations pass anti-circumvention provisions similar to the DMCA, except the FTAA treaty grants even greater control to publishers than the DMCA. The public must intervene to express disapproval of the FTAA's proposed anti-circumvention measures in order to correct this trend in copyright law. FTAA is currently accepting public feedback on the proposed treaty language until August 22. Contact the U.S. Trade Representative (or your country's representative) and urge the removal of the anti-circumvention measures from incorporation into the final FTAA treaty. Already existing theories of liability under US copyright law adequately protect the legitimate interests of copyright holders without the need to impose anti-technology restrictions on the entire public. Rather than adopt even more draconian measures that ban socially beneficial technologies in a fantasy of protecting copyrights, such as the proposed anti-circumvention measures to FTAA attempts, foreign countries should learn from the disastrous US experience with the DMCA. They should wisely steer away from such over-reaching measures. What YOU Can Do: EFF calls upon the citizens of the 34 countries affected by this treaty, including the US, to submit comments by August 20 (22 at the latest) urging the group to remove the provisions from the treaty that outlaw the act of circumvention and forbid providing tools for circumvention of technological protection measures restricting use of copyrighted works. These measures violate the U.S. Constitution's guarantee of freedom of speech under the First Amendment, similar guarantees in other national constitutions and laws and in the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, since such tools are necessary to exercise lawful uses, including fair use. While protecting copyright is important, passing measures that also censor much lawful speech goes too far, without ever achieving its objective. The next meeting of the FTAA Negotiating Group on Intellectual Property Rights is Aug. 22 in Panama, and public comments will be most effective if received before this date. This means it should be mailed by Aug. 18 at the latest, in the US, and even sooner from other countries. (Unfortunately, the FTAA site does not provide mechanisms for Web-submitted comments.) Comments, to be received by the FTAA organization by August 20, should be submitted to: Gloria Blue, Executive Secretary, Trade Policy Staff Committee Attn: FTAA Draft Text Release Office of the U.S. Trade Representative 1724 F. St., NW, Fifth Floor Washington DC 20508 USA Non-US writers should also send a copy to their own country's intellectual property government officials; list available at: http://www.sice.oas.org/int_prop/ip_dir.asp Sample Letter: This is just an example. It will be most effective if you send something similar but in your own words. Dear Ms. Blue, Trade Policy Staff Committee, and Negotiating Group on Intellectual Property Rights: I write to express my grave concern regarding the draft FTAA treaty's extreme intellectual property provisions. These measures, based on the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) give far too much power to publishers, at the expense of indivdiuals' rights. The DMCA itself is already under legal challenge in the US, has gravely chilled scientists' and computer security researchers' freedom of expression around the world for fear of being prosecuted in the US, and resulted in the arrest of a Russian programmer. The FTAA provisions, which serve no one but American corporate copyright interests, are even more overbroad than those of the DMCA. These provisions would require signatory nations to pass new DMCA-style laws that ban, with few or no exceptions, software and other tools that allow copy prevention technologies to be bypassed. This would violate the U.S. Constitution's guarantee of freedom of speech under the First Amendment, and similar guarantees in other national constitutions and laws and in the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, since such tools are necessary to exercise lawful uses, including fair use, reverse engineering, computer security research and many others. I urge you to remove these controversial and anti-freedom provisions from the FTAA treaty language. The DMCA is already an international debacle. Its flaws - and worse - should not be exported and forced on other countries. Sincerely, [Your full name] [Your address] Non-US writers should mention their own country's constitution and/or laws protecting freedom of expression, of coruse. Copies may also be sent by e-mail to some key people in the FTAA process: kalvarez@ustr.gov (Kira Alvarez - Intellectual Property) walter_bastian@ita.doc.gov (Walter Bastian - E-Commerce) Non-US contacts available at: http://www.ftaa-alca.org/contacts/contpts.asp Background: Much like the DMCA, the current draft of the FTAA agreement forbids the act of circumventing a "technological protection measure" that controls the use of a copyrighted work. It also bans making or providing tools that could help another to use a copyrighted work. Unlike the DMCA, however, the language currently proposed for the FTAA treaty doesn't include even a single exemption that would permit activities like lawful reverse engineering, protecting privacy, fair use rights, encryption research, and countless other reasons a person might need to override the publisher's controls. (And the DMCA only includes a few very narrow exemptions to the general ban on circumvention, but they have so far proven completely useless to everyone who has attempted to rely on them.) Even though copyright law gives individuals rights such as fair use, the DMCA and FTAA's proposed anti-circumvention provisions outlaw all tools that are necessary to exercise those rights, effectively killing fair use in the digital age. These measures ensure works are prevented from taking their place in the public domain, denying the public what rightfully belongs to it under the law. The guarantees of free expression under the First Amendment, other constitutions & laws in other countries, and the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights, rightly prevent publishers from having complete control over the way in which copyrighted works can be used. But the DMCA and its counterpart in the FTAA treaty ignore this principle and would grant publishing companies the power to turn individual rights into "product features" that can be disabled at the whim of the publisher. Since its passage, the DMCA has thus far been used to: censor a journalist reporting on a controversial software program; attempt to squelch the research of a Princeton professor who discovered the vulnerabilities of the music industry's favored technology; and arrest a foreign computer programmer for developing software that allows lawful purchasers of electronic books to view them in ways not supported by a competitor's viewing software. Because it wishes to consistently abuse these powers throughout the world, rather than merely in the United States, Hollywood and the rest of the copyright industry are now attempting to export this legal regime throughout the world. It is truly ironic that the United States, once the beacon for promoting the principles of freedom of expression, is now systematically infecting other countries with this dangerous public policy choice that will restrict more speech than any law before it. FTAA's anti-circumvention provisions represent US imperialism at its worst. They seek to impose restrictive laws on both the US and other countries, in order to prevent established US businesses from facing both domestic and foreign competition. These competitors would offer the public much better deals than these businesses wish to offer, which is why the small number of companies that control music, movie and book distribution seek to have these competitors outlawed. The anti-circumvention provisions' terrible effects on freedom of speech, scientific advancement, and actual computer security, as well as on public libraries and access to knowledge, are merely "incidental" damage, suffered by society for the benefit of these businesses. To view the proposed FTAA treaty language, see: http://www.ftaa-alca.org/ftaadraft/eng/draft_e.doc [MS-Word] For more information on the FTAA treaty process, see: http://www.ftaa-alca.org/alca_e.asp About EFF: The Electronic Frontier Foundation is the leading civil liberties organization working to protect rights in the digital world. Founded in 1990, EFF actively encourages and challenges industry and government to support free expression, privacy, and openness in the information society. EFF is a member-supported organization and maintains one of the most linked-to Web sites in the world: http://www.eff.org Contact: Will Doherty, EFF Online Activist / Media Relations wild@eff.org +1 415 436 9333 x111 Robin Gross, EFF Intellectual Property Attorney robin@eff.org +1 415 436 9333 x112 - end - _________________________________________________________________ [snip] Administrivia EFFector is published by: The Electronic Frontier Foundation 454 Shotwell Street San Francisco CA 94110-1914 USA +1 415 436 9333 (voice) +1 415 436 9993 (fax) http://www.eff.org/ Editors: Katina Bishop, EFF Education & Offline Activism Director Stanton McCandlish, EFF Technical Director/Webmaster editors@eff.org To Join EFF online, or make an additional donation, go to: http://www.eff.org/support/ Membership & donation queries: membership@eff.org General EFF, legal, policy or online resources queries: ask@eff.org Reproduction of this publication in electronic media is encouraged. Signed articles do not necessarily represent the views of EFF. To reproduce signed articles individually, please contact the authors for their express permission. Press releases and EFF announcements & articles may be reproduced individually at will. To subscribe to EFFector via e-mail, send to majordomo@eff.org a message BODY (not subject) of: subscribe effector The list server will send you a confirmation code and then add you to a subscription list for EFFector (after you return the confirmation code; instructions will be in the confirmation e-mail). To unsubscribe, send a similar message body to the same address, like so: unsubscribe effector (Please ask listmaster@eff.org to manually remove you from the list if this does not work for you for some reason.) To change your address, send both commands at once, one per line (i.e., unsubscribe your old address, and subscribe your new address). Back issues are available at: http://www.eff.org/effector To get the latest issue, send any message to effector-reflector@eff.org (or er@eff.org), and it will be mailed to you automagically. You can also get, via the Web: http://www.eff.org/pub/EFF/Newsletters/EFFector/current.html _________________________________________________________________ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From sisgeek at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 12:55:10 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010816195510.53415.qmail@web13903.mail.yahoo.com> hey jeme, i still like sonja's simple and less verbose explanation of delicately balancing competing interests. can u amplify your logic of how copyright law has anything whatsoever to do with natural law (rights)? --- Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Sonja V. Tideman wrote: > > First of all, the opposition against laws such as > the DMCA has nothing > > to do with opposition to copyright in general. > > As I think I've said on this list before, > > Digital distribution > Effective copyright protection > Free speech > > Pick 2. > > Without the DMCA, we'd still have corporations > encrypting their > copyrighted work and distributing it with all kinds > of "license > restrictions" and fighting in civil rather than > criminal court to suppress > expression that they perceive to be detrimental to > profit. Those civil > suits and the threat of civil suit would do as much > to quell free speech > as an outright ban. > > > Copyright is a delicate bargain. The government > creates a temporary > > artificial monopoly on a creative work to allow > the creator to gain a > > profit. > > This is the propaganda of the copyright industry and > an absolute lie. > > The public (through their agency, the government) > restricts, for a limited > time, the natural rights of the majority to > distribute copies or > derivatives of individual expressions of an idea and > reserves those rights > exclusively, for that same limited time, for the > creator of the work AS > LONG AS THE CREATOR MAKES THE WORK PUBLIC. > > Without publication, there is no impetus for the > public to restrict its > natural rights to distribute the expression. > Publication means making a > work available to the public in a usable form. > Distribution via license > or distribution of an encrypted version of an > expression IS NOT > PUBLICATION. Unless the public retains ALL RIGHTS > NOT EXPLICITLY RESERVED > FOR THE AUTHOR, there is no publication. If a > publisher distributes a > work that is specifically designed to prevent the > public's exercise of > their rights, there is no publication. > > The Berne Convention was a sort of treaty signed by > the United States > (among other nations) that contained ideas > eventually expressed in the > United States as a rewrite of the Copyright Act. In > particular, the Berne > Convention requires signatory nations to protect > copyright on unpublished > expressions and removes the requirement of > publication via registration of > a copyrighted expression with the Library of > Congress. This is directly > opposed to the Congressional mandate set forward in > the Constitution to > promote progress and directly opposed to the bargain > struck between the > public and authors. The Berne Convention is another > example of an > industry, created by a public trust, using its > influence to leverage and > subvert the will and benefit of the public. > > The copyright bargain is one in which the public > gets to use an expression > and an author gets to ensure that the expression > remains true to its > intent. These rights are reserved for only a > limited time because it is > the nature of expressions to evolve and it is to the > public benefit and > the progress of all mankind that expressions be > allowed to > evolve. Eventually, it is necessary for the public > to be able to digest > and regurgitate the expression in other forms not > approved by the > author. > > It's important to note, I think, that the > Constitution of the United > States carefully states that the mandate of Congress > is "to promote the > progress of science and the useful arts" with > appropriate legislation of a > form that secures "the exclusive rights of authors > and inventors to their > respective writings and discoveries". Modern > copyright is only rarely > used to protect the integrity of a scientific work. > Mostly, copyright is > used to protect those practitioners of the fine > arts. It was wise and > insightful of our forefathers to intentionally > neglect the fine arts in > their clause. It is the nature of fine art to feed > upon itself. Fine art > exists, some would argue, to reflect the culture and > encourage other > expression in that reflection. A mirror can > infringe copyright and fine > art is a mirror. If the fine arts (such as > painting, poetry, > non-scientific writing, and sculpture; as opposed to > the useful arts, such > as carpentry, smithery, and architecture) are not > allowed to feed on each > other in a cannibalistic way, it stagnates and > becomes dreary or > debauched. This is the state of the modern fine > arts, in my opinion. And > this state is perpetuated by and was originally > brought into being as the > natural outcome of the extension of copyright to the > fine arts. > > To promote the progress of science and the useful > arts, Authors and > inventors are granted some exclusive rights to THEIR > RESPECTIVE writings > and discoveries. This is very precise language to > me. It says two > things: > > To promote science, (scientific) authors are granted > exclusive rights to > their writings. > > To promote the useful arts, inventors are granted > exclusive rights to > their discoveries. > > Those are the foundations of copyright and patent. > How far we've strayed! > > Authors are not granted exclusive rights to their > discoveries... IDEAS > cannot be copyrighted or patented, only particular > expressions in writing. > > Inventors are not granted exclusive rights to the > object, only their > DISCOVERY. Hence, independent discovery is still a > right reserved by the > public. > > > In return, the public gets the benefit of using, > and eventually > > gaining, that piece of work. > > This requires, I hope you see, that the work be > presented to the public in > a usable form. An unusable form means that at least > the first part of the > bargain is not fulfilled. > > The unreasonably long periods of time in current > copyright law mean that > the public that grants these exclusive rights to > authors will not be alive > to reap the benefits and so that side of the bargain > is not fulfilled > either. > > > The key part of copyright, the nasty truth that > everyone seems so > > ready to forget, is that it is for the benefit of > the public. It is > > NOT for the benefit of business, or even for the > creators. > > When you state that copyright is there to allow for > profit, you are > implicitly relating copyright to business needs. > > Remember that copyright protects the individual > pamphleteer as well. And > he is not writing for the sake of mere profit. > > > It, of course, hopes to enable the creators to > profit from their work, > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Thu Aug 16 12:57:44 2001 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Brooklyn Linux Solutions) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FC: AP reportedly doesn't like quoting one sentence from articles In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010816153322.0215e360@mailbox.bellatlantic.net>; from wendy@seltzer.com on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 15:48:13 -0400 References: <20010816101713.J53980@networkcommand.com> <20010816101713.J53980@networkcommand.com> <20010816152613.K8748@www2> <4.3.2.7.2.20010816153322.0215e360@mailbox.bellatlantic.net> Message-ID: <20010816155744.A9140@www2> They don't have writers copying anything. They have a newsline service which they have had dubious financial deals with. Ruben On 2001.08.16 15:48:13 -0400 Wendy Seltzer wrote: At 03:26 PM 8/16/01 -0400, Brooklyn Linux Solutions wrote: >about has an interesting news system with contracts that go beyond the >scope of this >list. And as a result allows itself to be cowed into telling its writers that copying a sentence of text is not fair use? Saying that use is barred by contract might stand or might not (depending on whether the About.com writers get the stories only through contract with AP and whether AP can use a "hot news" misappropriation claim to say its contracts are restricting something other than what copyright permits). If it is contract, though, why are they telling writers it's copyright and contributing to a narrowing of the general norms of fair use? --Wendy >On 2001.08.16 13:17:13 -0400 Jon O . wrote: >FYI: > >----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- > >X-Sender: declan@mail.well.com >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 >Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:48:01 -0400 >To: politech@politechbot.com >From: Declan McCullagh >Subject: FC: AP reportedly doesn't like quoting one sentence from articles >Cc: info@ap.org, copyright@ap.org, holovacs@1st.net >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: declan@well.com >X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ >X-Author: Declan McCullagh is at http://www.mccullagh.org/ >X-News-Site: Cluebot is at http://www.cluebot.com/ > >A Politech irregular, Jay Holovacs , reports the >Associated Press has pressured about.com to remove excerpted AP stories >(with links to the offsite complete text) from the site if even one >sentence is quoted. -- Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.com Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard Law School http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html -- Brooklyn Linux Solutions http://www.mrbrklyn.com http://www.brooklynonline.com 1-718-382-5752 From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Thu Aug 16 13:00:47 2001 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Brooklyn Linux Solutions) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FC: AP reportedly doesn't like quoting one sentence from articles In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010816153322.0215e360@mailbox.bellatlantic.net>; from wendy@seltzer.com on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 15:48:13 -0400 References: <20010816101713.J53980@networkcommand.com> <20010816101713.J53980@networkcommand.com> <20010816152613.K8748@www2> <4.3.2.7.2.20010816153322.0215e360@mailbox.bellatlantic.net> Message-ID: <20010816160047.C9140@www2> When the smoke clears on this dispute, it will likely show no fair use issue whatsoever. Aside which, it was never a fair use to make commercial application of any part of a copyrighted work....as far as I know. As for what I think, I don't think any contract can reduce fair use since it's a doctrine which draws from the 1st ammendment, among others. Ruben On 2001.08.16 15:48:13 -0400 Wendy Seltzer wrote: At 03:26 PM 8/16/01 -0400, Brooklyn Linux Solutions wrote: >about has an interesting news system with contracts that go beyond the >scope of this >list. And as a result allows itself to be cowed into telling its writers that copying a sentence of text is not fair use? Saying that use is barred by contract might stand or might not (depending on whether the About.com writers get the stories only through contract with AP and whether AP can use a "hot news" misappropriation claim to say its contracts are restricting something other than what copyright permits). If it is contract, though, why are they telling writers it's copyright and contributing to a narrowing of the general norms of fair use? --Wendy >On 2001.08.16 13:17:13 -0400 Jon O . wrote: >FYI: > >----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- > >X-Sender: declan@mail.well.com >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 >Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:48:01 -0400 >To: politech@politechbot.com >From: Declan McCullagh >Subject: FC: AP reportedly doesn't like quoting one sentence from articles >Cc: info@ap.org, copyright@ap.org, holovacs@1st.net >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: declan@well.com >X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ >X-Author: Declan McCullagh is at http://www.mccullagh.org/ >X-News-Site: Cluebot is at http://www.cluebot.com/ > >A Politech irregular, Jay Holovacs , reports the >Associated Press has pressured about.com to remove excerpted AP stories >(with links to the offsite complete text) from the site if even one >sentence is quoted. -- Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.com Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard Law School http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Brooklyn Linux Solutions http://www.mrbrklyn.com http://www.brooklynonline.com 1-718-382-5752 From kfoss at planetpdf.com Thu Aug 16 13:23:23 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW> 'COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING' In-Reply-To: <20010816120946.A10896@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> References: <20010816120946.A10896@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: FYI - a new editorial from Seybold's eBook Zone: COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING, NO MATTER HOW NOBLE THE CAUSE http://www.seyboldreports.com/ebooks/010816-gene.html Gene Gable, the president of Seybold Seminars and Seybold Publications, believes a fundamental point in the current DMCA and Adobe vs. Sklyarov debates has been overlooked. rgds ~ Kurt ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network From MLarma at eFuel.com Thu Aug 16 13:26:51 2001 From: MLarma at eFuel.com (Larma, Mark) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Care Package For Dima Message-ID: <1E50F10694062B4D922862B413D01C9E04B8@efuelmail.efuel.com> Anyone heard anything about Dima this week? I was going to send him something like a care package while he is in California so that he doesn't feel totally abused by Americans. Also, any suggestions on what to send would be greatly appreciated! Thank you! Mark From byoungvt at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 13:25:52 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Can you all Help Me?? Message-ID: <20010816202552.26735.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, If you don't recognize the email this is Brad Young, I run the artistically challenged http://sjrally.n3.net site. I have been trying to help get Dmitry out of this mess since the Adobe Rally. I am sorry my site has not been kept up to date but here is the story: HELP FREE BRAD'S MONEY!!! Last Monday I moved to an on campus apartment. In these apartments they have installed 802.11b wireless ethernet, cool stuff. So off to Fry's I went to get a card. The first card I bought was from SOHO, it wouldn't work since it only had 40bit encryption. The network people said I needed to have 128. So back to Fry's. They gave me a store credit and I picked up a US Robotics card for $44.00 more. I went home opened the box, no manuals and no card!!! Instead inside was some kind of modem, not a wireless ethernet card. FRY'S REFUSED to give me a refund, claiming the box was unopened. (Obviously, someone had access to a shrink wrap machine!!!) Since I needed to give information from the card to the network people here at SJSU ASAP. I was stupid and bought a third US Robotics card from FRY's. Now I am out over $300.00 for one card. Fry's promised to call me back, to inform me if they might reconsider a refund, but of course they have not. So right now I am at SJSU's library, I have to wait for my authentication information beore I am on the net again. But I am still out $169.00. For me that is a whole bunch of cash! Not only that but I recommended Fry's as a place to visit when I talked to Dmitry when he was released!!! (see http://sjrally.n3.net)I wonder if they will rip him off too!!! So If you guys would please lend a hand it would be appreciated. If between your busy lives and free Dmitry activities you would contact Fry's and encourage them to give me a refund or at least a store credit toward my third modem I would appreciate it. And I could continue my efforts to Free Dmitry!!!! Please ask Fry's to FREE BRAD'S MONEY!!!! They have an email interface at their website: http://www.frys.com/ They have a fax: 408 487-1018 They have a phone: 408 487 1000 (ask for the PIC) International Support is Welcome!!! I am going over again tomorrow to talk to the store manager. Many Many Thanks!!! From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Thu Aug 16 13:37:37 2001 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Brooklyn Linux Solutions) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW> 'COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING' In-Reply-To: ; from kfoss@planetpdf.com on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 16:23:23 -0400 References: <20010816120946.A10896@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20010816163737.A9735@www2> This company needs to be a protest target. I was also wondering if we can get membership to the AAP. Ruben On 2001.08.16 16:23:23 -0400 Kurt Foss wrote: FYI - a new editorial from Seybold's eBook Zone: COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING, NO MATTER HOW NOBLE THE CAUSE http://www.seyboldreports.com/ebooks/010816-gene.html Gene Gable, the president of Seybold Seminars and Seybold Publications, believes a fundamental point in the current DMCA and Adobe vs. Sklyarov debates has been overlooked. rgds ~ Kurt ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Brooklyn Linux Solutions http://www.mrbrklyn.com http://www.brooklynonline.com 1-718-382-5752 From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Thu Aug 16 13:39:15 2001 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Brooklyn Linux Solutions) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW> 'COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING' In-Reply-To: ; from kfoss@planetpdf.com on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 16:23:23 -0400 References: <20010816120946.A10896@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20010816163915.D9735@www2> People are not markets.... On 2001.08.16 16:23:23 -0400 Kurt Foss wrote: FYI - a new editorial from Seybold's eBook Zone: COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING, NO MATTER HOW NOBLE THE CAUSE http://www.seyboldreports.com/ebooks/010816-gene.html Gene Gable, the president of Seybold Seminars and Seybold Publications, believes a fundamental point in the current DMCA and Adobe vs. Sklyarov debates has been overlooked. rgds ~ Kurt ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Brooklyn Linux Solutions http://www.mrbrklyn.com http://www.brooklynonline.com 1-718-382-5752 From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Aug 16 13:45:59 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Can you all Help Me?? In-Reply-To: <20010816202552.26735.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com>; from byoungvt@yahoo.com on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 01:25:52PM -0700 References: <20010816202552.26735.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010816134559.E13920@zork.net> I think we need to have some more concerted attempts to stay on topic. Yes, there's relatively little news until a week from today, but we should keep the Dmitry/(non-Dmitry) ratio high here. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From cycmn at nyct.net Thu Aug 16 13:51:12 2001 From: cycmn at nyct.net (J.E. Cripps) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Can you all Help Me?? In-Reply-To: <20010816134559.E13920@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010816164952.W35592-100000@bsd1.nyct.net> > I think we need to have some more concerted attempts to stay on topic. Yes. > Yes, there's relatively little news until a week from today, but we > should keep the Dmitry/(non-Dmitry) ratio high here. Even if it takes another list. :-) But I'm not volunteering to host, manager or even promise to subscribe to it. From sisgeek at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 13:53:37 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: 'COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING' In-Reply-To: <20010816163737.A9735@www2> Message-ID: <20010816205337.31042.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com> i wouldn't worry to much about gene's article - his opening paragraph implying algorithm analysis is stealing demonstrates a gross lack of understanding the fundamental issues!! perhaps an invitation to join our discussion list is more appropriate? --- Brooklyn Linux Solutions wrote: > This company needs to be a protest target. > > I was also wondering if we can get membership to the > AAP. > > > Ruben > > On 2001.08.16 16:23:23 -0400 Kurt Foss wrote: > FYI - a new editorial from Seybold's eBook Zone: > > COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING, > NO MATTER HOW NOBLE THE CAUSE > http://www.seyboldreports.com/ebooks/010816-gene.html > > Gene Gable, the president of Seybold Seminars and > Seybold > Publications, believes a fundamental point in the > current DMCA > and Adobe vs. Sklyarov debates has been overlooked. > > rgds ~ Kurt > ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor > _______________________ > Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, > tools and forums > mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | > mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com > http://www.binarything.com/ | > http://www.planetpdf.com/ > BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > -- > Brooklyn Linux Solutions > http://www.mrbrklyn.com > http://www.brooklynonline.com > > 1-718-382-5752 > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Aug 16 13:55:36 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW> 'COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING' In-Reply-To: <20010816163737.A9735@www2>; from ruben@mrbrklyn.com on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 04:37:37PM -0400 References: <20010816120946.A10896@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> <20010816163737.A9735@www2> Message-ID: <20010816135536.F13920@zork.net> Brooklyn Linux Solutions writes: > This company needs to be a protest target. Seybold has been pretty bad about supporting DRM and the DMCA. On the other hand, it tends to take the "we're just reporters, bringing publishers the news about trends that affect their industry" angle. I do think that most Seybold customers are relatively small publishers and artists and that their fears are fairly genuine. If Seybold is saying "DRM good", perhaps that's what small publishers want to hear. Unfortunately, they're spreading some misconceptions about computer security, for DRM is snake oil in a way that mainstream authentication and confidentiality products aren't. I don't know whether it's better to focus on the "perfect control for publishers is an undesirable situation for the public" angle, the "DRM is snake oil" angle, or the "enlightened copyright holders don't view their customers as enemies" angle a la Brad Templeton. I suppose that all of these are things that need to be said in reply. Seybold is writing from a very different world and one of which I have little understanding, though I used to live just a block away from the Moscone Center. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From mickeym at mindspring.com Thu Aug 16 13:55:17 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (mickey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW> 'COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING' References: <20010816120946.A10896@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> <20010816163915.D9735@www2> Message-ID: <3B7C3335.BD73718A@mindspring.com> Notice the 'related articles' ? Those look interesting, but, ironically, they are password protected... Brooklyn Linux Solutions wrote: > People are not markets.... > > On 2001.08.16 16:23:23 -0400 Kurt Foss wrote: > FYI - a new editorial from Seybold's eBook Zone: > > COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING, > NO MATTER HOW NOBLE THE CAUSE > http://www.seyboldreports.com/ebooks/010816-gene.html > > Gene Gable, the president of Seybold Seminars and Seybold > Publications, believes a fundamental point in the current DMCA > and Adobe vs. Sklyarov debates has been overlooked. > > rgds ~ Kurt > ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ > Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums > mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com > http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ > BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > -- > Brooklyn Linux Solutions > http://www.mrbrklyn.com > http://www.brooklynonline.com > > 1-718-382-5752 > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From sisgeek at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 13:59:10 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Second Thoughts on Seybold In-Reply-To: <20010816163915.D9735@www2> Message-ID: <20010816205910.31759.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com> thinking about seybold - their san francisco conference is Sept 24 - 28 moscone center. this might make an interesting protest site? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 13:59:10 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Second Thoughts on Seybold In-Reply-To: <20010816163915.D9735@www2> Message-ID: <20010816205910.31759.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com> thinking about seybold - their san francisco conference is Sept 24 - 28 moscone center. this might make an interesting protest site? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From f00bar at earthlink.net Thu Aug 16 13:55:44 2001 From: f00bar at earthlink.net (J. Shirley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW> 'COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING' References: <20010816120946.A10896@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> <20010816163737.A9735@www2> Message-ID: <3B7C3350.9080305@earthlink.net> Hello all, I'm new to the list so Hi :) In regards to this, after reading the article I believe the main cause of confusion and advocacy towards Adobe is under one simple principle: miseducation. I believe that instead of establishing this company as a protest, someone who is well spoken attempt to contact Mr. Seybold and educate him onto what actually is the issue. I've sent a feedback message, doubtful it will reach the intended recipient but I hope it does and he reads it. My main point was because you are equipped to commit a felony, doesn't make you a fugitive. A little joke to add humor with a message: A group of boyscouts went on an outdoor fielding and a mother asked one of the group leaders what activities the kids were going to be learning. He listed a few things, and at the end of the list he said, "Rifle Marksmanship." The mother jumped back and exclaimed, "You're teaching them to shoot rifles? Isn't that dangerous??" The troop leader responded, "Well, Mam, they are under close supervision and are trained safety precautions long before they touch a rifle." The mother, still not satisfied, said plainly "But you are equipping them to be killers!". The troup leader flatly responded, "Ma'am, You're equipped to be a prostitute but I don't see you doing it" Brooklyn Linux Solutions wrote: >This company needs to be a protest target. > >I was also wondering if we can get membership to the AAP. > > >Ruben > >On 2001.08.16 16:23:23 -0400 Kurt Foss wrote: >FYI - a new editorial from Seybold's eBook Zone: > >COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING, >NO MATTER HOW NOBLE THE CAUSE >http://www.seyboldreports.com/ebooks/010816-gene.html > >Gene Gable, the president of Seybold Seminars and Seybold >Publications, believes a fundamental point in the current DMCA >and Adobe vs. Sklyarov debates has been overlooked. > >rgds ~ Kurt >____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ >Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums >mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com >http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ >BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > From jono at microshaft.org Thu Aug 16 14:04:15 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Can you all Help Me?? In-Reply-To: <20010816164952.W35592-100000@bsd1.nyct.net>; from cycmn@nyct.net on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 04:51:12PM -0400 References: <20010816134559.E13920@zork.net> <20010816164952.W35592-100000@bsd1.nyct.net> Message-ID: <20010816140415.C58911@networkcommand.com> On 16-Aug-2001, J.E. Cripps wrote: > > I think we need to have some more concerted attempts to stay on topic. > > Yes. > > > Yes, there's relatively little news until a week from today, but we > > should keep the Dmitry/(non-Dmitry) ratio high here. > > Even if it takes another list. :-) But I'm not volunteering to > host, manager or even promise to subscribe to it. > There is a DMCA list here: http://lists.anti-dmca.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss However, I'm not sure how much you can extract the DMCA issues, fair use, etc. from the Dmitry/(non-Dmitry) stuff. It all seems pretty related. I just keep thinking that this type of arrest is just going to happen again unless the public understands the DMCA is not helpful to many. However, I think much use of this list is to inform to the public about Dmitry and also to explain that the DMCA used to arrest him is a bad law. So, I'm sure some people on this list find DMCA, Fair Use information and news useful. Is that not the case? What constitutes non-Dmitry? What happens when he is released? The law was used to put him in jail, doesn't that mean the law is core to this issue? I hope these questions and their answers help clarify what is and isn't on topic. > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From sisgeek at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 14:06:56 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seybold Message-ID: <20010816210656.10839.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> don't mean to hog the bandwidth but this seybold thing is trigger: they are planning a free education "drm arena" where e-book vendors demonstrate their ebooks every 45 mins over a 3 day period. hummm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From wendy at seltzer.com Thu Aug 16 14:08:51 2001 From: wendy at seltzer.com (Wendy Seltzer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FC: AP reportedly doesn't like quoting one sentence from articles In-Reply-To: <20010816160047.C9140@www2> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010816153322.0215e360@mailbox.bellatlantic.net> <20010816101713.J53980@networkcommand.com> <20010816101713.J53980@networkcommand.com> <20010816152613.K8748@www2> <4.3.2.7.2.20010816153322.0215e360@mailbox.bellatlantic.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010816161104.01edc350@mailbox.bellatlantic.net> At 04:00 PM 8/16/01 -0400, Brooklyn Linux Solutions wrote: >When the smoke clears on this dispute, it will likely show no >fair use issue whatsoever. It's managed to incense lots of people in the meantime, though. >Aside which, it was never a fair use to make commercial application of >any part of a copyrighted work....as far as I know. Wrong, thankfully. Fair use is often commercial. 2 Live Crew was selling its parody of Roy Orbison's "Oh Pretty Woman" for profit, yet was confirmed in its fair use. Whether the use is commercial or non-profit is only one factor in the analysis, and it is not determinative. Even a commercial use can be fair if other factors, such as the use's transformative character, its lack of effect on the market for the original, or the original's factual nature, are in its favor. It's always a balancing, and commerciality doesn't weigh so heavily against fair use as you suggest. --Wendy -- Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.com Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard Law School http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html From byoungvt at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 14:27:57 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Can you all Help Me?? In-Reply-To: <20010816140415.C58911@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010816212757.42758.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> Dear All, Sorry, I did not consider helping each other off topic? I thought the board was to plan and organize efforts to Free Dmitry. My site has been here from the start, informing people of dates and times of events, showing pictures of events, and providing links to current information. I have been a feature on slashdot and 2600 several times and have rcvd over 1000 hits in a single day. More than I ever imagined!! In addition I have spent over $100 of my own money on flyers, have participated in three events, and organized and passed out flyers at Fry's and Target in the Bay Area. In addition, I also was the ONLY supporter to meet Dmitry upon his release! I thought this movement was about helping fellow programmers, helping people, helping each other. Don't "burst my bubble". The most important thing is to get Dmitry home!!! I hope he pleads guilty, pays a fine and goes home to see his kids!!! I am worried that many people involved are not in this to help someone, a fellow programmer, but to use Dmitry as a Tool to defeat a law. Sorry If I strayed off "topic". BTW; I think it is a Great idea to censor post on a board dedicated to Free Speech! --- "Jon O ." wrote: > On 16-Aug-2001, J.E. Cripps wrote: > > > I think we need to have some more concerted > attempts to stay on topic. > > > > Yes. > > > > > Yes, there's relatively little news until a week > from today, but we > > > should keep the Dmitry/(non-Dmitry) ratio high > here. > > > > Even if it takes another list. :-) But I'm not > volunteering to > > host, manager or even promise to subscribe to it. > > > > There is a DMCA list here: > http://lists.anti-dmca.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss > > However, I'm not sure how much you can extract the > DMCA issues, fair use, > etc. from the Dmitry/(non-Dmitry) stuff. It all > seems pretty related. > > I just keep thinking that this type of arrest is > just going to happen again > unless the public understands the DMCA is not > helpful to many. However, > I think much use of this list is to inform to the > public about Dmitry and > also to explain that the DMCA used to arrest him is > a bad law. So, I'm sure > some people on this list find DMCA, Fair Use > information and news useful. > > Is that not the case? What constitutes non-Dmitry? > What happens when he is > released? The law was used to put him in jail, > doesn't that mean the law is core > to this issue? > > I hope these questions and their answers help > clarify what is and isn't on topic. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From byoungvt at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 14:27:57 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Can you all Help Me?? In-Reply-To: <20010816140415.C58911@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010816212757.42758.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> Dear All, Sorry, I did not consider helping each other off topic? I thought the board was to plan and organize efforts to Free Dmitry. My site has been here from the start, informing people of dates and times of events, showing pictures of events, and providing links to current information. I have been a feature on slashdot and 2600 several times and have rcvd over 1000 hits in a single day. More than I ever imagined!! In addition I have spent over $100 of my own money on flyers, have participated in three events, and organized and passed out flyers at Fry's and Target in the Bay Area. In addition, I also was the ONLY supporter to meet Dmitry upon his release! I thought this movement was about helping fellow programmers, helping people, helping each other. Don't "burst my bubble". The most important thing is to get Dmitry home!!! I hope he pleads guilty, pays a fine and goes home to see his kids!!! I am worried that many people involved are not in this to help someone, a fellow programmer, but to use Dmitry as a Tool to defeat a law. Sorry If I strayed off "topic". BTW; I think it is a Great idea to censor post on a board dedicated to Free Speech! --- "Jon O ." wrote: > On 16-Aug-2001, J.E. Cripps wrote: > > > I think we need to have some more concerted > attempts to stay on topic. > > > > Yes. > > > > > Yes, there's relatively little news until a week > from today, but we > > > should keep the Dmitry/(non-Dmitry) ratio high > here. > > > > Even if it takes another list. :-) But I'm not > volunteering to > > host, manager or even promise to subscribe to it. > > > > There is a DMCA list here: > http://lists.anti-dmca.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss > > However, I'm not sure how much you can extract the > DMCA issues, fair use, > etc. from the Dmitry/(non-Dmitry) stuff. It all > seems pretty related. > > I just keep thinking that this type of arrest is > just going to happen again > unless the public understands the DMCA is not > helpful to many. However, > I think much use of this list is to inform to the > public about Dmitry and > also to explain that the DMCA used to arrest him is > a bad law. So, I'm sure > some people on this list find DMCA, Fair Use > information and news useful. > > Is that not the case? What constitutes non-Dmitry? > What happens when he is > released? The law was used to put him in jail, > doesn't that mean the law is core > to this issue? > > I hope these questions and their answers help > clarify what is and isn't on topic. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Thu Aug 16 14:40:30 2001 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Brooklyn Linux Solutions) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW> 'COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING' In-Reply-To: <20010816135536.F13920@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 16:55:36 -0400 References: <20010816120946.A10896@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> <20010816163737.A9735@www2> <20010816135536.F13920@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010816174030.G9836@www2> We better start bridging that divide if we ever expect to make an impact. Ruben <> - -- Brooklyn Linux Solutions http://www.mrbrklyn.com http://www.brooklynonline.com 1-718-382-5752 From proclus at iname.com Thu Aug 16 14:37:38 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW> 'COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING' Message-ID: <200108162137.f7GLbc916910@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> cc: seyboldreports While I agree that it is wrong to violate the copyrights of authors and musicians, this article is an appalling over-simplification and distortion of the facts. Dmitry is not being prosecuted, not for any copyright violation or theft. Rather he has only violated a bad law, the DMCA. The DMCA is an unwelcome and unwarranted usurpation of free speech and fair use rights, which are constitutionally protected. Thus the law is also unconstitutional, and it will certainly be cast down or changed. It is simply wrong to make Dmitry the test case for a law that is so clearly bad. Moreover, so-called "intellectual property" cannot be protected by such laws as the DMCA, and those who try will only reap tremendous PR damage. Please refrain from the absurd comparison of Dmitry's actions with theft. We are the thieves. We in this country have stolen his freedom for no good reason. Regards, Michael L. Love http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From proclus at iname.com Thu Aug 16 14:41:50 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Care Package For Dima In-Reply-To: <1E50F10694062B4D922862B413D01C9E04B8@efuelmail.efuel.com> Message-ID: <200108162141.f7GLfoQ16919@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> On 16 Aug, Larma, Mark wrote: > Anyone heard anything about Dima this week? I was going to send him > something like a care package while he is in California so that he doesn't > feel totally abused by Americans. Also, any suggestions on what to send > would be greatly appreciated! Here are my ideas: Gift certificates for fast food and bookstores. CD-R's thinkgeek.com gift certificates Bart passes Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > > Thank you! > > Mark > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Thu Aug 16 14:45:27 2001 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Brooklyn Linux Solutions) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FC: AP reportedly doesn't like quoting one sentence from articles In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010816161104.01edc350@mailbox.bellatlantic.net>; from wendy@seltzer.com on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 17:08:51 -0400 References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010816153322.0215e360@mailbox.bellatlantic.net> <20010816101713.J53980@networkcommand.com> <20010816101713.J53980@networkcommand.com> <20010816152613.K8748@www2> <4.3.2.7.2.20010816153322.0215e360@mailbox.bellatlantic.net> <20010816160047.C9140@www2> <4.3.2.7.2.20010816161104.01edc350@mailbox.bellatlantic.net> Message-ID: <20010816174527.I9836@www2> <> Ah - granted... but here they are producing something new, and the parody is protected speach, possibly political speach. In the case of about.com, they are just taking the headlines. They are copying the head lines. Where is the protected political speach. This is one of the problems of talking about fair use as a single doctrine. My mistake. My apologies. Ruben -- Brooklyn Linux Solutions http://www.mrbrklyn.com http://www.brooklynonline.com 1-718-382-5752 From f00bar at earthlink.net Thu Aug 16 14:45:32 2001 From: f00bar at earthlink.net (J. Shirley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Care Package For Dima References: <200108162141.f7GLfoQ16919@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <3B7C3EFC.3000002@earthlink.net> Perhaps for those out of the area, a paypal account or another point of contact for us to mail donations/presents, etc to so they can get to him or go into a larger something? proclus@iname.com wrote: >On 16 Aug, Larma, Mark wrote: > >>Anyone heard anything about Dima this week? I was going to send him >>something like a care package while he is in California so that he doesn't >>feel totally abused by Americans. Also, any suggestions on what to send >>would be greatly appreciated! >> > >Here are my ideas: > >Gift certificates for fast food and bookstores. >CD-R's >thinkgeek.com gift certificates >Bart passes > >Regards, >proclus >http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > > >>Thank you! >> >>Mark >> >>_______________________________________________ >>free-sklyarov mailing list >>free-sklyarov@zork.net >>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov >> > From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Thu Aug 16 15:09:27 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Picket-Signs-mini-HOWTO updated Message-ID: We've updated our writeup on making picket signs, incorporating lessons learned from the more recent protest and suggestions from several people who sent them in. The new version, 0.0.9, is posted at: http://csua.berkeley.edu/~alexf/sklyarov/Picket-Signs-mini-HOWTO Input, as always, is welcome at . -- -alexf From tom at lemuria.org Thu Aug 16 15:17:48 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] re: Celebs In-Reply-To: ; from xyz@kalifornia.com on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 10:59:39AM -0700 References: <200108161605.LAA000.81@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> Message-ID: <20010817001748.C12067@lemuria.org> On Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 10:59:39AM -0700, <> wrote: > So, by Tom's explanation... By the rational that AUTHORS can copyright WORK > THEY CREATED, The Church could copyright all DNA being that they are (in > effect) Agents of God and have the authority over His work? I don't think it extends to fictional beings. aside from that, there'll probably be some trouble producing a court-acceptable document with the copyright transfer. plus: THAT would definitely be an expired copyright. tiny rant: how can stuff like DNA be anything but public domain? spending 5 thoughts on the subject makes clear that any copyright, trademark or patent on HUMAN DNA is just unbelievable stupid and against all what those rights stand for. now we may talk about engineered DNA, but human is just so obvious - nobody created or invented it, so how can anyone claim patent or copyright protection? the act of FINDING is NOT covered by any of those. I mean, columbus didn't get a patent on america, did he? -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From ed at hintz.org Thu Aug 16 15:28:38 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Care Package For Dima Message-ID: <200108162228.f7GMScc27850@phil.hintz.org> On 8/16/01 2:41 PM, proclus@iname.com thus spake: >Bart passes Probably won't do him any good. He's in Cupertino, where bart doesn't go. However, he does need to go to the lawyers in SF and the courts in SJ, so Caltrain/VTA might be useful. That's assuming he needs a ride though, he might be covered there... Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From free-sklyarov at happycool.com Thu Aug 16 15:29:21 2001 From: free-sklyarov at happycool.com (Victor Piterbarg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW> 'COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING' In-Reply-To: <20010816174030.G9836@www2> Message-ID: sent this to him: Dear Mr. Gable, I read your article at http://www.seyboldreports.com/ebooks/010816-gene.html. I would like to point out that your commentary seems misinformed on several key points. First of all, Mr. Sklyarov is not accused of "stealing." He was arrested under the anti-trafficking provision of the DMCA, which prohibits the distribution of "circumvention devices." He has done no such distribution. Mr. Sklyarov's efforts were academic in nature. The research he presented at the Defcon conference was the basis of his Master thesis. Hence, your burglary anaolgy is flawed. A more fitting analogy would present the following scenario. You are walking out of the house, and fumbling with your keys while locking the door. Mr. Sklyarov walks up behind you and says, "I couldn't help but notice that a window on the other side of your house is wide open!" Now you probably would walk back into the house, and close the window, rather than calling the police and having Mr. Sklyarov arrested for burglarizing your house. In any case, you must understand that creating any parallels between intellectual propery in the digital format and physical property is rather dangerous. You also say, "...we all know that the majority of people downloading and using Mr. Sklyarov's program expect to get something for nothing." That is just not true, the program was sold by Elcomsoft for $99, compared to an average cost of an e-book of about $5. That is hardly getting something for nothing. The only thing that I expect to get for nothing is my fair use rights, which are unfortunately not included in an e-book download. Nobody is arguing that intellectual property has no value. Indeed, it may have great value. This case is about the DMCA awarding UNLIMITED copyright protection to the publishers, while chilling research efforts and trampling free speech. If you would like more information, please visit www.anti-dmca.org. Additionally, you may consider joining the free-sklyarov mailing list at http://www.zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov. I hope that you alter your stance on this issue. Sincerely, Victor Piterbarg Senior VP, Programming Black Sheep, Inc. 1660 Ocean Ave. Santa Monica, CA 310-395-9215 (tel) 310-395-9275 (fax) From badnewsbears at prodigy.net Thu Aug 16 16:13:39 2001 From: badnewsbears at prodigy.net (Yogi) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Can you all Help Me?? References: <20010816202552.26735.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002301c126a9$19a8b5a0$73f2fea9@n6y3p0> Fry's is a fun place to shop because of their large selection and inventory. I, myself, have never had to go 'round with their customer service but, based on what I have read (try a Google search), they do not seem to get very good marks in that area. I will add my small voice. -Bob Burns ---- Original Message ----- From: "brad young" To: Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 1:25 PM Subject: [free-sklyarov] Can you all Help Me?? > Hi all, > > If you don't recognize the email this is Brad Young, I > run the artistically challenged http://sjrally.n3.net > site. I have been trying to help get Dmitry out of > this mess since the Adobe Rally. I am sorry my site > has not been kept up to date but here is the story: > > HELP FREE BRAD'S MONEY!!! > > Last Monday I moved to an on campus apartment. In > these apartments they have installed 802.11b wireless > ethernet, cool stuff. So off to Fry's I went to get a > card. The first card I bought was from SOHO, it > wouldn't work since it only had 40bit encryption. The > network people said I needed to have 128. So back to > Fry's. They gave me a store credit and I picked up a > US Robotics card for $44.00 more. > > I went home opened the box, no manuals and no card!!! > Instead inside was some kind of modem, not a wireless > ethernet card. FRY'S REFUSED to give me a refund, > claiming the box was unopened. (Obviously, someone had > access to a shrink wrap machine!!!) > > Since I needed to give information from the card to > the network people here at SJSU ASAP. I was stupid and > bought a third US Robotics card from FRY's. Now I am > out over $300.00 for one card. > > Fry's promised to call me back, to inform me if they > might reconsider a refund, but of course they have > not. > > So right now I am at SJSU's library, I have to wait > for > my authentication information beore I am on the net > again. But I am still out $169.00. For me that is a > whole bunch of cash! Not only that but I recommended > Fry's as a place to visit when I talked to Dmitry when > he was released!!! (see http://sjrally.n3.net)I wonder > if they will rip him off too!!! > > So If you guys would please lend a hand it would be > appreciated. If between your busy lives and free > Dmitry activities you would contact Fry's and > encourage them to give me a refund or at least a store > credit toward my third modem I would appreciate it. > And I could continue my efforts to Free Dmitry!!!! > > Please ask Fry's to FREE BRAD'S MONEY!!!! > > They have an email interface at their website: > > http://www.frys.com/ > > They have a fax: > > 408 487-1018 > > They have a phone: > > 408 487 1000 > (ask for the PIC) > > International Support is Welcome!!! > > I am going over again tomorrow to talk to the store > manager. > > Many Many Thanks!!! > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From kris at firstworld.net Thu Aug 16 17:22:45 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] re: Celebs In-Reply-To: <20010817001748.C12067@lemuria.org> References: <200108161605.LAA000.81@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010816171530.01251fa0@pop.firstworld.net> At 12:17 AM 8/17/2001 +0200, Tom wrote: >I don't think it extends to fictional beings. aside from that, there'll >probably be some trouble producing a court-acceptable document with the >copyright transfer. plus: THAT would definitely be an expired copyright. > >tiny rant: how can stuff like DNA be anything but public domain? >spending 5 thoughts on the subject makes clear that any copyright, >trademark or patent on HUMAN DNA is just unbelievable stupid and >against all what those rights stand for. now we may talk about >engineered DNA, but human is just so obvious - nobody created or >invented it, so how can anyone claim patent or copyright protection? >the act of FINDING is NOT covered by any of those. I mean, columbus >didn't get a patent on america, did he? Well, I don't know if I want my specific DNA to be public domain. Nor do I what another me running around. However, copyrighting DNA is ridiculous. After all, if your DNA is stolen and a clone is produced from it, what recourse does the "copyright holder" have? It's not like you can have the clone destroyed. Nor could one prevent the clone from cloning, should the clone so choose. Also, in the case of twins, which twin gets the copyright? Kris From sisgeek at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 17:34:16 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Care Package For Dima In-Reply-To: <200108162141.f7GLfoQ16919@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <20010817003416.42790.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> what may work to dima's advantage in addition to feeding him:? get a list of restaurants surrounding his custodial location in cupertino and the sj district court. (sidewalk.com:) then call those restaurants and arrange for meal accounts - then have the restaurants send dima an invitation (written or telephone or email) for him and a guest(s) to dine. you would be amazed how many people a restauranteur talks to in a day. --- proclus@iname.com wrote: > On 16 Aug, Larma, Mark wrote: > > Anyone heard anything about Dima this week? I was > going to send him > > something like a care package while he is in > California so that he doesn't > > feel totally abused by Americans. Also, any > suggestions on what to send > > would be greatly appreciated! > > Here are my ideas: > > Gift certificates for fast food and bookstores. > CD-R's > thinkgeek.com gift certificates > Bart passes > > Regards, > proclus > http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > > > > > > Thank you! > > > > Mark > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > -- > Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version: 3.1 > GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- > W++ N- !o K- w--- !O > M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R > tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ > h--- r+++ y++++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 17:44:56 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW> 'COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010817004456.33522.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com> well i can see parts of an "opening statement" in this letter!:) --- Victor Piterbarg wrote: > sent this to him: > > Dear Mr. Gable, > > I read your article at > http://www.seyboldreports.com/ebooks/010816-gene.html. > I would like to point > out that your commentary seems misinformed on > several key points. > > First of all, Mr. Sklyarov is not accused of > "stealing." He was arrested > under the anti-trafficking provision of the DMCA, > which prohibits the > distribution of "circumvention devices." He has done > no such distribution. > Mr. Sklyarov's efforts were academic in nature. The > research he presented at > the Defcon conference was the basis of his Master > thesis. > > Hence, your burglary anaolgy is flawed. A more > fitting analogy would present > the following scenario. You are walking out of the > house, and fumbling with > your keys while locking the door. Mr. Sklyarov walks > up behind you and says, > "I couldn't help but notice that a window on the > other side of your house is > wide open!" Now you probably would walk back into > the house, and close the > window, rather than calling the police and having > Mr. Sklyarov arrested for > burglarizing your house. In any case, you must > understand that creating any > parallels between intellectual propery in the > digital format and physical > property is rather dangerous. > > You also say, "...we all know that the majority of > people downloading and > using Mr. Sklyarov's program expect to get something > for nothing." That is > just not true, the program was sold by Elcomsoft for > $99, compared to an > average cost of an e-book of about $5. That is > hardly getting something for > nothing. The only thing that I expect to get for > nothing is my fair use > rights, which are unfortunately not included in an > e-book download. > > Nobody is arguing that intellectual property has no > value. Indeed, it may > have great value. This case is about the DMCA > awarding UNLIMITED copyright > protection to the publishers, while chilling > research efforts and trampling > free speech. > > If you would like more information, please visit > www.anti-dmca.org. > Additionally, you may consider joining the > free-sklyarov mailing list at > http://www.zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov. > I hope that you alter > your stance on this issue. > > > Sincerely, > > Victor Piterbarg > Senior VP, Programming > > Black Sheep, Inc. > 1660 Ocean Ave. > Santa Monica, CA > 310-395-9215 (tel) > 310-395-9275 (fax) > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From jono at microshaft.org Thu Aug 16 17:58:24 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Ferguson vs. Letts (Seybold) on ebookweb Message-ID: <20010816175824.A60452@networkcommand.com> This is very interesting: ---------- Forwarded Message --------- From: "Matthew T. R." Subject: [DMCA_discuss] Ferguson vs. Letts (Seybold) on ebookweb Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:53:22 -0400 (EDT) Check out http://www.ebookweb.com There's a story on an email exchange between Michael Letts of Seybold Publications and Dutch cryptographer Niels Ferguson about the DMCA and its effect on Ferguson's ability to legally publish his paper on HDCP _______________________________________________ ------------------------ http://www.anti-dmca.org ------------------------ DMCA_discuss mailing list DMCA_discuss@lists.microshaft.org http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss ----- End forwarded message ----- From bobds at blorch.org Thu Aug 16 19:49:06 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [declan@well.com: FC: More on AP not wanting one sentence quoted from articles] In-Reply-To: <20010816122318.D58039@networkcommand.com> References: <20010816122318.D58039@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <01081619490601.13992@bitworks> On Thursday 16 August 2001 12:23, you wrote: > >But it is unlikely that About would have told us to remove the AP > >stuff from our sites (and, when it was brought up, say that we need > >to be careful about what appears on the forums) if they didn't think > >that AP had a case. Demanding this of the Guides creates both more > >short-term work and more long-term work. It's annoying for everyone > >and doesn't serve any good end otherwise. I don't think it's unlikely at all. and there is an end served--although you're right, it's not a GOOD end. My experience in a similar situation involving cryptographic patents and Compu$erve was that Compu$erve couldn't capitulate and present their little butts to the intellectual property thugs fast enough. Partly, this may be a manifestation of cowardice...but largely it's recognition that entities like Compu$erve (and probably About, although I have less direct experience with them) are NOT in the information distribution business, they're in the information RESTRICTION business because that's how their whole business model is constructed. It's not about fear that AP has a case so much as it is a natural instinct to fawn on anybody that tries to prohibit any form of communication without payment. After all, if it's wrong for you to quote a newspaper article online, surely it must also be at least a little bit wrong for you to quote something you saw in an About post...which means if I want to know what you're talking about, I have to put a nickel in to read it directly on About instead of getting it second-hand (and worst of all, FREE) from you. The only these intellectual parasites think they can stay alive is to CREATE scarcity in information (where, as somebody else recently noted, no such scarcity naturally exists). The adage has long been that "freedom of the press belongs to those who own one," and the current owners would like very much to keep it that way--which means ANYTHING that empowers you to speak OR listen without their mediation is a direct threat to their whole way of life. They're not worried that AP might have a case. They're MUCH more concerned about the possibility that AP might lose, if it ever came to that...and one way to prevent that speculation from being confirmed is to voluntarily act as if AP had already won. -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From bobds at blorch.org Thu Aug 16 19:51:44 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FC: AP reportedly doesn't like quoting one sentence from articles In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010816153322.0215e360@mailbox.bellatlantic.net> References: <20010816101713.J53980@networkcommand.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010816153322.0215e360@mailbox.bellatlantic.net> Message-ID: <01081619514402.13992@bitworks> On Thursday 16 August 2001 12:48, you wrote: > If it is > contract, though, why are they telling writers it's copyright and > contributing to a narrowing of the general norms of fair use? Because they WANT to eliminate "fair use." They're evil, not stupid. -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From bobds at blorch.org Thu Aug 16 19:58:10 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW> 'COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING' In-Reply-To: <3B7C3350.9080305@earthlink.net> References: <20010816120946.A10896@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> <20010816163737.A9735@www2> <3B7C3350.9080305@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <01081619581003.13992@bitworks> On Thursday 16 August 2001 13:55, you wrote: > I believe that instead of establishing this company as a protest, > someone who is well spoken attempt to contact Mr. Seybold and educate > him onto what actually is the issue. He knows exactly what the issue is. He's just driven by a radically different set of incentives than we are. -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From tabindak at best.com Thu Aug 16 22:33:00 2001 From: tabindak at best.com (Tabinda N. Khan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] new petitions Message-ID: <20010816223259.A20409@shell9.ba.best.com> I have posted new petitions on http://www.tabinda.com/freedmitry/ These are the new petitions which contain the text generally agreed upon by the Dmitry organizers during the last IRC summit. One petition is aimed toward U.S. Congress members, the other toward the U.S. Attorney's office. You can get your representatives' names from http://thomas.loc.gov/tfaqs/02.htm. Please send signed hard copies of the U.S. Attorney and California members of Congress petitions to Don Marti, who will be compiling those. Keep copies for yourself and send the originals. Don Marti 900 High School Way #2125 Mountain View, CA 94041 U.S.A Please send non-California Congressional petitions to your local organizer. Please email Tabinda N. Khan at tabindak@best.com if you're not sure who your local organizer is. Thanks, Tabinda -- From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Fri Aug 17 00:04:31 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" References: Message-ID: <3B7CC1FF.47E17C6D@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Jeme: Do you have any references that show how things were different before the Berne Convention, particularly as relates to the application of copyright to fine arts? Seth Johnson Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > The Berne Convention was a sort of treaty signed by the United States > (among other nations) that contained ideas eventually expressed in the > United States as a rewrite of the Copyright Act. In particular, the Berne > Convention requires signatory nations to protect copyright on unpublished > expressions and removes the requirement of publication via registration of > a copyrighted expression with the Library of Congress. This is directly > opposed to the Congressional mandate set forward in the Constitution to > promote progress and directly opposed to the bargain struck between the > public and authors. The Berne Convention is another example of an > industry, created by a public trust, using its influence to leverage and > subvert the will and benefit of the public. > > The copyright bargain is one in which the public gets to use an expression > and an author gets to ensure that the expression remains true to its > intent. These rights are reserved for only a limited time because it is > the nature of expressions to evolve and it is to the public benefit and > the progress of all mankind that expressions be allowed to > evolve. Eventually, it is necessary for the public to be able to digest > and regurgitate the expression in other forms not approved by the > author. > > It's important to note, I think, that the Constitution of the United > States carefully states that the mandate of Congress is "to promote the > progress of science and the useful arts" with appropriate legislation of a > form that secures "the exclusive rights of authors and inventors to their > respective writings and discoveries". Modern copyright is only rarely > used to protect the integrity of a scientific work. Mostly, copyright is > used to protect those practitioners of the fine arts. It was wise and > insightful of our forefathers to intentionally neglect the fine arts in > their clause. It is the nature of fine art to feed upon itself. Fine art > exists, some would argue, to reflect the culture and encourage other > expression in that reflection. A mirror can infringe copyright and fine > art is a mirror. If the fine arts (such as painting, poetry, > non-scientific writing, and sculpture; as opposed to the useful arts, such > as carpentry, smithery, and architecture) are not allowed to feed on each > other in a cannibalistic way, it stagnates and becomes dreary or > debauched. This is the state of the modern fine arts, in my opinion. And > this state is perpetuated by and was originally brought into being as the > natural outcome of the extension of copyright to the fine arts. From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Aug 17 00:45:52 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW> 'COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING' In-Reply-To: <3B7C3350.9080305@earthlink.net>; from f00bar@earthlink.net on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 01:55:44PM -0700 References: <20010816120946.A10896@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> <20010816163737.A9735@www2> <3B7C3350.9080305@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20010817004552.K13920@zork.net> J. Shirley writes: > I believe that instead of establishing this company as a protest, > someone who is well spoken attempt to contact Mr. Seybold and educate > him onto what actually is the issue. > > I've sent a feedback message, doubtful it will reach the intended > recipient but I hope it does and he reads it. The founder of the business, Patricia Seybold, is a woman -- unless it's a different Seybold business. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From kmself at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 17 01:26:23 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" In-Reply-To: ; from jeme@brelin.net on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 11:04:41AM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010817012623.M18430@navel.introspect> on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 11:04:41AM -0700, Jeme A Brelin (jeme@brelin.net) wrote: > > On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Sonja V. Tideman wrote: > > Copyright is a delicate bargain. The government creates a temporary > > artificial monopoly on a creative work to allow the creator to gain > > a profit. > > This is the propaganda of the copyright industry and an absolute lie. It *is* the original intent of copyright. > The public (through their agency, the government) restricts, for a > limited time, the natural rights of the majority to distribute copies > or derivatives of individual expressions of an idea and reserves those > rights exclusively, for that same limited time, for the creator of the > work AS LONG AS THE CREATOR MAKES THE WORK PUBLIC. Interesting thought, and it does raise some interesting avenues of thought, but I find it a highly dubious proposition. For the author of, say, a serial work, the power to impose a scarcity of competing versions of a work he's created himself can have a significant economic benefit. Consider, say, the prolific author of our times, Gates. Continued availability via public publication of earlier versions of his "Windows" saga would likely significantly impact sales of newer releases in the series. Copyright is the right to make, or not to make, copies. We can argue duration of copyright if you wish, but that's another discussion. > To promote the progress of science and the useful arts, Authors and > inventors are granted some exclusive rights to THEIR RESPECTIVE > writings and discoveries. This is very precise language to me. It > says two things: > > To promote science, (scientific) authors are granted exclusive rights > to their writings. > > To promote the useful arts, inventors are granted exclusive rights to > their discoveries. Note that "Science" ~1784 pertained to "general knowledge", including what we'd consider literature and other artistic works. "Useful arts" refers to "artifices" -- science or technology in today's vernacular. "Science and the useful arts" in the Constitution has almost the reverse of the apparent contemporary meaning. We'd probably phrase it today as "knowledge, culture, and applied technology". From the 1913 Webster's definition: The ancients reckoned seven sciences, namely, grammar, rhetoric, logic, arithmetic, music, geometry, and astronomy; -- the first three being included in the Trivium, the remaining four in the Quadrivium. And, for art: The employment of means to accomplish some desired end; the adaptation of things in the natural world to the uses of life; the application of knowledge or power to practical purposes. Cheers. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010817/7cec1ab9/attachment.pgp From kmself at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 17 01:47:34 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsweek Article (8/20 Issue) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010816112009.02a442f0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com>; from robertl1@home.com on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 11:23:52AM -0700 References: <200108161223.f7GCN3a05411@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010815112909.0214a6a0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> <200108161223.f7GCN3a05411@www2.mrbrklyn.com> <20010816095145.G53980@networkcommand.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010816112009.02a442f0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <20010817014734.N18430@navel.introspect> on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 11:23:52AM -0700, Bob La Quey (robertl1@home.com) wrote: > At 09:51 AM 8/16/01 -0700, you wrote: > > >The economy was not Adobe's only worry in July. The company's image > >took a beating after Adobe encouraged the federal government to > >prosecute Elcom, a Russian company that had distributed code to crack > >the security features in Adobe's software for electronic documents. > > > >The grass roots response in the software developer community was > >quick and furious. > > > >``Last Monday, which was the height of the activity, I think I > >counted up to 1,700 e-mails that I had gotten throughout the week,'' > >Chizen said. Since Adobe began advocating for Sklyarov's release, he > >said the number has come down to a couple per day. > > > > > >So, I'm not suggesting the companies are actually smoldering for > >those who take each word so literally. Simply that this stuff does > >matter to them, they are seeing it and the efforts are having some > >impact. > > > >I think that impact should be respected and honoured. > > I totally agree with this. Moreover I certainly do believe that ADobe > should not be let off the hook. They initiated the complaint that put > Dmitry in jail in the first place. Where do they get off with just > saying, "I'm sorry, I really did not mean it."? For most of us, they're not off the hook until they start hustling some serious ass to get Dmitry safely home, and turn against the DMCA, not just this "we pulled the trigger but didn't mean it" crap. The practical reality, though, is that they don't particulalry matter, and given limited political capital and resources, we're better off pressing for Dmitry to be freed, and to find an effective strategy against the DMCA, than to keep pressing Adobe. Though I have a note in my sig line, FWIW. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010817/6e279ba0/attachment.pgp From kmself at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 17 02:14:21 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Can you all Help Me?? In-Reply-To: <20010816212757.42758.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com>; from byoungvt@yahoo.com on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 02:27:57PM -0700 References: <20010816140415.C58911@networkcommand.com> <20010816212757.42758.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010817021421.P18430@navel.introspect> on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 02:27:57PM -0700, brad young (byoungvt@yahoo.com) wrote: > Dear All, > > Sorry, I did not consider helping each other off topic? I thought the > board was to plan and organize efforts to Free Dmitry. My site has > been here from the start, informing people of dates and times of > events, showing pictures of events, and providing links to current > information. I have been a feature on slashdot and 2600 several times > and have rcvd over 1000 hits in a single day. More than I ever > imagined!! Appreciated. <...> > I think it is a Great idea to censor post on a board dedicated to Free > Speech! Censured, not censored. This list is a channel with a dedicated purpose. Sticking to charter will keep it effective and useful. It's also international in scope, retail issues specific to the SF south bay are irrelevant to many here. You'll generally find that localized support lists are going to be more receptive. I'd suggest SVLUG (there's some cross membership with here) or another south bay tech list. I've also addressed your issue in a private post. Best suggestion now is for you to apologize, sincerely, and not do it again. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010817/5720c390/attachment.pgp From cycmn at nyct.net Fri Aug 17 05:58:54 2001 From: cycmn at nyct.net (J.E. Cripps) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Care Package For Dima In-Reply-To: <20010817003416.42790.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010817085801.R71746-100000@bsd1.nyct.net> > then call those restaurants and arrange for meal > accounts - then have the restaurants send dima an > invitation (written or telephone or email) for him > and a guest(s) to dine. > you would be amazed how many people a restauranteur > talks to in a day. This is absolutely brilliant, even if it doesn't improve his diet. From kfoss at planetpdf.com Fri Aug 17 06:09:42 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW> 'COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING' In-Reply-To: <20010817004552.K13920@zork.net> References: <20010816120946.A10896@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> <20010816163737.A9735@www2> <3B7C3350.9080305@earthlink.net> <20010817004552.K13920@zork.net> Message-ID: At 12:45 AM -0700 8/17/01, Seth David Schoen wrote: >The founder of the business, Patricia Seybold, is a woman -- unless >it's a different Seybold business. Nope, different business. There has not been a "Seybold" at the helm of Seybold Seminars/Seybold Reports for some years now. rgds ~ Kurt ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network -- From tom at lemuria.org Fri Aug 17 07:28:28 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] 'COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING' Message-ID: <20010817162828.C12294@lemuria.org> > > COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING, > > NO MATTER HOW NOBLE THE CAUSE > > > http://www.seyboldreports.com/ebooks/010816-gene.html the article does exactly what it accuses others of: missing the point. specifically, Dmitri Sklyarov hasn't stolen anything. period. no discussion on that. he is NOT being hunted for stealing. not even for unauthorized copying. he's being prosecuted for doing something that potentially enables others to commit a crime. as in: Ford makes a car, Smith uses it in a bank robbery. who's the criminal, Ford or Smith? now you can go all sophistry and get the smoke machine fired up, but the simple core issue is that the guy did not steal, and therefore the whole article falls right on its face. Dmitri doesn't have to excuse a theft with noble causes because there was no theft. no matter how you spin it, the article focusses on something that didn't occur and that nobody is even claiming to have occured. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From tom at lemuria.org Fri Aug 17 07:35:44 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FC: AP reportedly doesn't like quoting one sentence from articles In-Reply-To: <20010816174527.I9836@www2>; from ruben@mrbrklyn.com on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 05:45:27PM -0400 References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010816153322.0215e360@mailbox.bellatlantic.net> <20010816101713.J53980@networkcommand.com> <20010816101713.J53980@networkcommand.com> <20010816152613.K8748@www2> <4.3.2.7.2.20010816153322.0215e360@mailbox.bellatlantic.net> <20010816160047.C9140@www2> <4.3.2.7.2.20010816161104.01edc350@mailbox.bellatlantic.net> <20010816174527.I9836@www2> Message-ID: <20010817163544.D12294@lemuria.org> On Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 05:45:27PM -0400, Brooklyn Linux Solutions wrote: > but here they are producing something new, and the parody is protected > speach, possibly political speach. > > In the case of about.com, they are just taking the headlines. They are > copying the head lines. Where is the protected political speach. one word: reviews if I write a review of a movie, even if I do it for money, I'd be VERY surprised if I can't include a few shots, quotes and other excerpts. now one way to see it (I don't say it's the right one, but it certainly is consistent) is that about.com is using excerpts in a review-style way. it's clearer on slashdot, where the wording is more verboose ("there's an article [link]here talking about ...") but the principle is the same, isn't it? -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From kreizykid at hotmail.com Fri Aug 17 08:23:37 2001 From: kreizykid at hotmail.com (Josiah Draper) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Spam from the free-sklyarov list Message-ID: Spam.... on this list? come on people get real, this list is designed so we can help the nation a little bit, not to piss off everyone with spam. If you are doing spam, please stop. And so far has anyone else been spammed? -Josiah! ICQ:75986519 MSN:kreizykid@hotmail.com Yahoo:kreizykid Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:52:21 -0700 To: From: Jay Allen Subject: [free-sklyarov] Spam from the free-sklyarov list Wonderful. It looks as though a spammer has been reading our posts. The= =20 following is part of a spam I received to the address I created for this=20 list and this list only. Be warned... Anyone have time to chase down this bastard and get them nuked? -j- -------------------------- Received: from zone-i.co.kr (IDENT:root@[211.32.147.200]) by jlizard.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA01411 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 04:15:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host (07-019.024.popsite.net [66.19.3.19]) by zone-i.co.kr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15113; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:13:11 +0900 Message-Id: <200108161113.UAA15113@zone-i.co.kr> From: "Sue Meadow" Subject: All Gold #1013 To: lism4rd@zone-i.co.kr X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V=D0=DFD.1712.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 06:44:36 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/mixed;=20 boundary=3D"----=3D_NextPart_000_007F_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UIDL: fa84248e3dbed6c4b30fdb380bd98718 Dear Candidate, You have been selected as a potential candidate for a free listing in the 2001 Edition of the International Executive Guild Registry. Please accept our congratulations for this coveted honor.=20 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From larsg at eurorights.org Fri Aug 17 09:16:06 2001 From: larsg at eurorights.org (Lars Gaarden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] 'COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING' Message-ID: <3B7D4346.5000501@eurorights.org> Dear Gene, In your article, you claim that we are overlooking a fundamental point with regard to the DMCA. Unfortunately, it seems like you are missing a few points also. 1) Breaking security is an important part of security research. I would ask you to take note of the following amicus brief submitted by noted security and crypto expert Bruce Schneier in the Felten vs RIAA case. In the declaration, Schneier explains why the act of trying to break security measures and protocols and the freedom to publish the results is an integral and important part of security research. A quote from the brief: "9. Unlike many academic disciplines, security is inherently adversarial. Researchers who invent security systems are always competing with those who break security systems. Due to the nature of how security works, it is impossible to categorically state that a security system is secure. It may be secure against all known attacks, but there is no guarantee that a successful attack will not be invented tomorrow. Despite not being able to prove security, it is quite possible to definitively show insecurity, by explaining how to break a system, or by publicly demonstrating one's ability to do so. Since the presence of a negative result (break-in) shows that a security system is insecure, security can only be demonstrated by the lack of such results." The entire declaration is available at: http://www.eff.org/Legal/Cases/Felten_v_RIAA/20010813_schneier_decl.html 2) Creating a tool is not the same as stealing. "Since when is it okay to steal something just because it wasn't very hard to do?" Noone is claiming that stealing is right. However, neither Felten nor Sklyarov are accused of stealing. They are accused of making tools, or describing flaws that enable someone to write tools, that might be used for copyright infringement. The big inconsistency in article 1201 of the DMCA is that it makes dual-use tools illegal instead of making the act of copyright infringement illegal. Even tools like lockpicks, which are clearly designed for breaking locks and are often used for illegal acts, are not illegal up front. In most jurisdictions, a court has to find that the person in possession of a lockpick intended to use it for illegal purposes in order to convict him. Instead of applying the same standard to 'circumvention tools', the DMCA makes using or distributing these tools illegal - with no questions asked about intent. In other words, 1201 turns the legal system on its head by saying that people are guilty of copyright infringement until proven innocent. 3) Publishers are not free to rewrite copyright law. You say: "And let's throw out the baloney about how "noble" hackers are simply trying to give legitimate customers the fair use rights they deserve. If customers decide that a company's copy protection schemes are too restrictive, they'll reject the product, and the seller will go back to the drawing board." People don't "deserve" fair use rights. Fair use is an integral part of copyright law. These rights have been upheld by numerous court rulings, and are in addition codified in the current copyright law. Publishers are not free to keep the parts of copyright law they like and disregard the rest. Your model will erase the fair use rights granted by law or upheld by legal precedent, and replace them with the largest amount of restrictions on fair use that the majority of your customers will accept. 4) Digital protection measures are not flexible. "The flexibility of electronic copyright protection products should result in more equitable pricing that reflects a customer's specific use." I am a software developer by trade, with my main focus on networks and security. Because of that, I have been watching the development of security and access control technologies with much interest. You claim that copy protection measures are flexible enough to cater for all required forms of fair use. This implies to me that you have only a rudimentary understanding of the challenges and limitations related to these technologies and their interaction with copyright law. To give an example: The legality of quoting parts of a copyrighted work is determined by many factors, including the size of the quote and the manner in which the quote is used. Legal scholars and courts have disagreed many times about the exact lines. Why do you think that a piece of software is able to determine the legality of this act, when the people that have an intimate knowledge of the law can't give an exact answer? 5) Equating opposition to the DMCA with disrespect for copyright law. "Our entire industry is built on the idea that intellectual property has value. Some of that value is in the manufacturing process, some in design, some in editing and some in distribution. If there is no respect for those value steps, we might as well pack up and go home." Sir, most of the people opposing the DMCA - including many US law professors - are critical to the law because it is too broad. It adds a new layer of protection, a layer that is much larger than the rights granted by copyright law itself. We are not opposed to copyright law. We understand that authors and publishers must have a decent chance of making money from their work. We are not opposed to your right to make money, we are merely distressed by the damaging effect this law will have on other parts of society - including the first amendment, freedom of the press, scientific research, privacy and fair use. If our professional paths should cross, it is not unlikely that I will provide you with technical assistance in chasing down digital copyright infringers. -- "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead. From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Aug 17 10:52:08 2001 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (forw) Heh (job listing) Message-ID: <20010817105208.G31488@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> ----- Forwarded message from Deirdre Saoirse Moen ----- Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:42:13 -0700 To: rick@linuxmafia.com From: Deirdre Saoirse Moen Subject: Heh (job listing) Irony IS your second best entertainment value: adobe.11213BD - Sr. Software Engineer - Acrobat Security CA-408-San Jose-PKI, XML signatures or certificates -- _Deirdre Stash-o-Matic: http://fuzzyorange.com http://deirdre.net ----- End forwarded message ----- From sisgeek at yahoo.com Fri Aug 17 11:30:38 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] 'COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING' In-Reply-To: <3B7D4346.5000501@eurorights.org> Message-ID: <20010817183038.71761.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com> hi lars, enjoyed reading your email to gene. it seems gene is apparently wearing the blinders of a special interest group. legal scholars are also are very troubled by the "vagueness" of the DMCA. what is obvious to gene is not so obvious to those who seriously study the law in general and DMCA in specific. you, as a programmer, are forced into the untenable position of not knowing when your behavior will be deemed criminal and your freedom snatched from you! may be this is acceptable to gene, but i suspect it is not ok with you. it is certainly not acceptable to those who study constitutional law and those who cherish and value due process! if gene was forced to consult a lawyer, not to mention a collateral class exemption list, and any company who may be impacted every time he wanted to write an article i suspect his analysis would change significantly? that gene is evidently willing to foist this upon another speaks volumes. all who seriously study any issue discover the more they know the less they know. you have helped gene along this discovery path. --- Lars Gaarden wrote: > Dear Gene, > > In your article, you claim that we are overlooking a > fundamental > point with regard to the DMCA. > > Unfortunately, it seems like you are missing a few > points also. > > > 1) > Breaking security is an important part of security > research. > > I would ask you to take note of the following amicus > brief > submitted by noted security and crypto expert Bruce > Schneier > in the Felten vs RIAA case. In the declaration, > Schneier explains > why the act of trying to break security measures and > protocols and > the freedom to publish the results is an integral > and important > part of security research. > > A quote from the brief: > "9. Unlike many academic disciplines, security is > inherently > adversarial. Researchers who invent security systems > are always > competing with those who break security systems. Due > to the nature > of how security works, it is impossible to > categorically state that > a security system is secure. It may be secure > against all known > attacks, but there is no guarantee that a successful > attack will not > be invented tomorrow. Despite not being able to > prove security, it > is quite possible to definitively show insecurity, > by explaining how > to break a system, or by publicly demonstrating > one's ability to do > so. Since the presence of a negative result > (break-in) shows that a > security system is insecure, security can only be > demonstrated by > the lack of such results." > > The entire declaration is available at: > http://www.eff.org/Legal/Cases/Felten_v_RIAA/20010813_schneier_decl.html > > > 2) > Creating a tool is not the same as stealing. > > "Since when is it okay to steal something just > because it wasn't > very hard to do?" > > Noone is claiming that stealing is right. > > However, neither Felten nor Sklyarov are accused of > stealing. They > are accused of making tools, or describing flaws > that enable > someone to write tools, that might be used for > copyright > infringement. > > The big inconsistency in article 1201 of the DMCA is > that it > makes dual-use tools illegal instead of making the > act of > copyright infringement illegal. Even tools like > lockpicks, > which are clearly designed for breaking locks and > are > often used for illegal acts, are not illegal up > front. > In most jurisdictions, a court has to find that the > person > in possession of a lockpick intended to use it for > illegal > purposes in order to convict him. Instead of > applying the > same standard to 'circumvention tools', the DMCA > makes > using or distributing these tools illegal - with no > questions > asked about intent. In other words, 1201 turns the > legal > system on its head by saying that people are guilty > of > copyright infringement until proven innocent. > > > 3) > Publishers are not free to rewrite copyright law. > > You say: > "And let's throw out the baloney about how "noble" > hackers are simply > trying to give legitimate customers the fair use > rights they deserve. > If customers decide that a company's copy protection > schemes are > too restrictive, they'll reject the product, and the > seller will go > back to the drawing board." > > People don't "deserve" fair use rights. Fair use is > an integral part > of copyright law. These rights have been upheld by > numerous court > rulings, and are in addition codified in the current > copyright law. > Publishers are not free to keep the parts of > copyright law they > like and disregard the rest. > > Your model will erase the fair use rights granted by > law or > upheld by legal precedent, and replace them with the > largest amount > of restrictions on fair use that the majority of > your customers will > accept. > > > 4) > Digital protection measures are not flexible. > > "The flexibility of electronic copyright protection > products should > result in more equitable pricing that reflects a > customer's specific > use." > > I am a software developer by trade, with my main > focus on networks > and security. Because of that, I have been watching > the development > of security and access control technologies with > much interest. > > You claim that copy protection measures are flexible > enough to > cater for all required forms of fair use. This > implies to me that you > have only a rudimentary understanding of the > challenges and limitations > related to these technologies and their interaction > with copyright > law. > > To give an example: > The legality of quoting parts of a copyrighted work > is determined > by many factors, including the size of the quote and > the manner in > which the quote is used. Legal scholars and courts > have disagreed > many times about the exact lines. Why do you think > that a piece of > software is able to determine the legality of this > act, when the > people that have an intimate knowledge of the law > can't give an > exact answer? > > > 5) > Equating opposition to the DMCA with disrespect for > copyright law. > > "Our entire industry is built on the idea that > intellectual property > has value. Some of that value is in the > manufacturing process, some in > design, some in editing and some in distribution. If > there is no > respect for those value steps, we might as well pack > up and go home." > > Sir, most of the people opposing the DMCA - > including many US > law professors - are critical to the law because it > is too > broad. It adds a new layer of protection, a layer > that is much > larger than the rights granted by copyright law > itself. > > We are not opposed to copyright law. We understand > that authors > and publishers must have a decent chance of making > money from > their work. We are not opposed to your right to make > money, > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Fri Aug 17 11:41:42 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (forw) Heh (job listing) In-Reply-To: <20010817105208.G31488@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20010817184142.10089.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> hey - how we doin on that work visa for dima?:) --- Rick Moen wrote: > ----- Forwarded message from Deirdre Saoirse Moen > ----- > > Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:42:13 -0700 > To: rick@linuxmafia.com > From: Deirdre Saoirse Moen > Subject: Heh (job listing) > > Irony IS your second best entertainment value: > > adobe.11213BD - Sr. Software Engineer - Acrobat > Security > CA-408-San Jose-PKI, XML signatures or certificates > > -- > _Deirdre Stash-o-Matic: http://fuzzyorange.com > http://deirdre.net > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From jays at panix.com Fri Aug 17 13:25:13 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] PP2P: Massively Distributed Microcrime? (edited highlights) (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:39:32 -0400 From: R. A. Hettinga To: Digital Bearer Settlement List , dcsb@ai.mit.edu, cryptography@wasabisystems.com Subject: PP2P: Massively Distributed Microcrime? (edited highlights) --- begin forwarded text To: NETTIME-L@bbs.thing.net From: richard barbrook Subject: PP2P: Massively Distributed Microcrime? (edited highlights) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 21:52:03 +0100 (BST) Sender: nettime-l-request@bbs.thing.net Reply-To: richard barbrook PP2P: Massively Distributed Microcrime? Gartner, Inc. Strategic Planning, SPA-13-7605 N. Jones Research Note 9 July 2001 Personal peer-to-peer applications will entertain and inform individuals but pose new risks to owners of intellectual property. ...... Personal P2P (PP2P) - The Next Step. During the next decade, we will see mass adoption of personal computing devices, such as super phones, personal digital assistants (PDAs), toys and e-books. ..... The opportunity and challenge arise when individuals can install personal P2P applications on their personal platforms. Not only will adjacent devices be able to communicate, but a sufficient density of PP2P devices in a region will allow devices to contact with others outside their direct networking range by using intermediate devices to forward messages, much as the Internet does today... Potential applications include: .... * Media Piracy. A P2P application running on personal devices could distribute pirated media widely and quickly in places containing a high density of potential recipients, such as schools and clubs. The music industry was scared by Napster, but at least it knew who it could sue. PP2P applications provide nobody to sue and no single point at which to intercept or prevent such activity. ..... Inhibitors will include: .... * Vendors or governments might be pressured by vested interests - such as the music industry - to apply some form of PP2P controls at the device level; however, we forecast that this will not prove successful (0.8 probability) Overall, we do not expect that such factors will prevent PP2P systems from becoming a major technical and social trend. Who will create and use PP2P applications? .... The first adopters are likely to be technically adept affluent professionals, followed by teenagers, the latter probably driven by applications such as dating, messaging and media piracy. Who wins, and who loses? The winners will include individuals, who will gain new ways to interact, share information and play games. Other winners will include organizations that can profit from communicating with groups of adjacent individuals. The losers will include organizations that might benefit from controlling, monitoring and intercepting communications - such as law enforcement agencies and owners of small to midsize units of intellectual property. The music industry, in particular, will be exposed to greater piracy risks with fewer opportunities for control. It seems likely that systems such as PP2P will make it impossible to police copying of media, forcing intellectual property owners to concentrate on encryption, rather than prevention. .... # distributed via : no commercial use without permission # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo@wasabisystems.com From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Aug 17 15:08:20 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fwd: Statement from Dmitry for distribution to activists Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:04:22 -0700 From: Will Doherty Subject: Statement from Dmitry for distribution to activists Statement from Dmitry Sklyarov for distribution to activists-- To everyone who spent their time helping me: During the three weeks I spent in jail I learned that many people were protesting against my arrest. I also learned that Adobe withdrew its support of my arrest after meeting with EFF. But I was not able to see that or to read letters and articles about my case. After being released from jail on August 6, I was really surprised and impressed by the scale of the action and the number of people involved in the protests. I'm not an IT superman. I'm just a programmer, like many others. It was unexpected by me that so many people would support a guy from another country that nobody heard about before. Your support means a lot to me and my family and makes a difference for all. This experience is going to change me in a profound way that I cannot even appreciate fully as yet. Thank you very much. Dmitry Sklyarov From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Aug 17 15:12:10 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fwd: Dmitry's Defense Fund Message-ID: Dmitry's defense team has set up a legal defense fund for him. See below for instructions on how to contribute: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:02:24 -0700 From: Will Doherty Subject: Dmitry's Defense Fund Here is the official word from Dmitry's attorneys on how to contribute to his defense fund. DMITRI DEFENSE FUND Wiring Instructions: First Union National Bank Philadelphia, PA ABA #031201467 Account #: 2000104359781 Account Name: Duane, Morris & Heckscher LLP Escrow Account *You MUST reference "The Dmitri Defense Fund - R0247-2" on all incoming wires in order for the funds to be received.* Donation by Check: The Dmitri Defense Fund c/o Duane, Morris & Heckscher LLP 100 Spear Street, Suite 1500 San Francisco, California 94105 USA *Please make check payable to "DMH Escrow Agent for Dmitri Defense Fund"* From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Fri Aug 17 15:44:46 2001 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Brooklyn Linux Solutions CEO) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Good Protest Song Message-ID: <3B7D9E5E.3954E27E@mrbrklyn.com> From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Fri Aug 17 15:50:06 2001 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Brooklyn Linux Solutions) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Good Protest Song In-Reply-To: <3B7D9E5E.3954E27E@mrbrklyn.com>; from ruben@mrbrklyn.com on Fri, Aug 17, 2001 at 18:44:46 -0400 References: <3B7D9E5E.3954E27E@mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <20010817185006.C20032@www2> http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/mp3/napseter/Arlo_Guthrie_-_Alice's_Resturant.mp3 On 2001.08.17 18:44:46 -0400 Brooklyn Linux Solutions CEO wrote: >From a previous day an age... -- Brooklyn Linux Solutions http://www.mrbrklyn.com http://www.brooklynonline.com 1-718-382-5752 _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Brooklyn Linux Solutions http://www.mrbrklyn.com http://www.brooklynonline.com 1-718-382-5752 From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Aug 17 16:53:00 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [wild@eff.org: [DMITRY-PLAN] Dmitry Contact Request: Correspondence and Media/Press] Message-ID: <20010817165300.G21944@zork.net> ----- Forwarded message from Will Doherty ----- Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:08:36 -0700 From: Will Doherty Subject: [DMITRY-PLAN] Dmitry Contact Request: Correspondence and Media/Press Dmitry's lead attorney explained today that he would be happy for EFF to receive email and snail mail correspondence intended for Dmitry. EFF will then forward this correspondence at regular intervals to Dmitry, although it is unlikely that Dmitry will be able to reply to much of it. So, to send an email to Dmitry, you can email: free-dmitry@eff.org For snail mail correspondence, you can send to: Dmitry Sklyarov c/o Electronic Frontier Foundation 454 Shotwell Street San Francisco, CA 94110 USA For faxes to Dmitry, you can fax to: +1 415 436-9993 (please mark with Dmitry's name) Dmitry's lead attorney also explained that his team would like to handle directly press/media calls related to the Dmitry Sklyarov legal case. These calls should be directed to: Lea Chase, +1 415 371-2224 Acquit Dmitry and Reform the DMCA, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From jeme at brelin.net Fri Aug 17 17:36:54 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" In-Reply-To: <20010817012623.M18430@navel.introspect> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Karsten M. Self wrote: > on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 11:04:41AM -0700, Jeme A Brelin > (jeme@brelin.net) wrote: > > > On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Sonja V. Tideman wrote: > > > > Copyright is a delicate bargain. The government creates a temporary > > > artificial monopoly on a creative work to allow the creator to gain > > > a profit. > > > > This is the propaganda of the copyright industry and an absolute lie. > > It *is* the original intent of copyright. No, it's not. The intent is not to allow profit, but to allow CONTROL OF DISTRIBUTION AND PRESENTATION. The idea must be preserved in its purest form and so distribution and presentation is exclusively reserved for the author. If the author chooses to use that exclusive right as a market monopoly, so be it. But copyright was designed to protect the free pamphleteer as well as the for-profit author. If the purpose was merely to allow the creator to profit, then non-profit publications wouldn't be given protection. It would be a waste of effort. "Why should we protect your right to profit on something that you're giving away for free?" or "You've destroyed your own market, so deal with it yourself." But no. Copyright protection is extended to all work published, regardless of the market status. Realize that the Constitution was written before capitalism. The exploitation of labor for profit was in its infancy. > > The public (through their agency, the government) restricts, for a > > limited time, the natural rights of the majority to distribute copies > > or derivatives of individual expressions of an idea and reserves those > > rights exclusively, for that same limited time, for the creator of the > > work AS LONG AS THE CREATOR MAKES THE WORK PUBLIC. > > Interesting thought, and it does raise some interesting avenues of > thought, but I find it a highly dubious proposition. For the author > of, say, a serial work, the power to impose a scarcity of competing > versions of a work he's created himself can have a significant > economic benefit. First, you're making the same asinine assumption that the economic benefit is more important than the public benefit. Again, copyright is only effectively an economic regulation, not an purposely economic one. > Consider, say, the prolific author of our times, Gates. Continued > availability via public publication of earlier versions of his > "Windows" saga would likely significantly impact sales of newer > releases in the series. First, no version of Windows was ever published. If we were to simply say that there was a copyright on the stream of bits that came on the CD or diskette bundles, then any decompile/recompile of the work would be a unique stream of bits. Oh, then is it the user interface? Change the interface... move things around, change colors, fonts, dialog messages... then recompile. How can you tell if my new work is original or derivative? You can't! Because the original work was only distributed in an obfuscated form and was never published plainly. To make the point more clearly, who is to say that Windows 2000 isn't mostly NT 3.5.1? And so when the copyright on NT 3.5.1 expires, will we be able to pull them out of the Windows 2000 distributions we have lying around and make use of them? There is no public benefit to copyrighting unpublished work or work published in an obfuscated, unusable form. > Copyright is the right to make, or not to make, copies. Only in effect and only recently. If you don't publish, why should we, the people, grant you exclusive rights? What public benefit is there in letting you withhold information from the people? Copyright law is not a special "bonus" for the few who bother to author. It is a method of ensuring public benefit from works of authorship. If an author does not publish, the public does not benefit. If an author publishes an obfuscated or unusable work of authorship, the public does not benefit. If an author only allows the work to be viewed in a restricted, licensed form, the public does not benefit. Without public benefit, there is no need for the public to defend those copyrights. > > To promote the progress of science and the useful arts, Authors and > > inventors are granted some exclusive rights to THEIR RESPECTIVE > > writings and discoveries. This is very precise language to me. It > > says two things: > > > > To promote science, (scientific) authors are granted exclusive rights > > to their writings. > > > > To promote the useful arts, inventors are granted exclusive rights to > > their discoveries. > > Note that "Science" ~1784 pertained to "general knowledge", including > what we'd consider literature and other artistic works. "Useful arts" > refers to "artifices" -- science or technology in today's vernacular. > "Science and the useful arts" in the Constitution has almost the reverse > of the apparent contemporary meaning. We'd probably phrase it today as > "knowledge, culture, and applied technology". > > From the 1913 Webster's definition: > > The ancients reckoned seven sciences, namely, grammar, rhetoric, > logic, arithmetic, music, geometry, and astronomy; -- the first > three being included in the Trivium, the remaining four in the > Quadrivium. Surely the sciences have been recategorized since the ancients, probably during the Renaissance (see the arts below). But this particular description doesn't negate anything that I said. The SCIENCES of grammar, logic, rhetoric, and music (to pick the four that you probably mean to include literature and artistic works) are not at all like the applications of those sciences. The writings in the field of the science of music are not musical works. The study of music is very different from the creation of music. The study of grammar and rhetoric may employ the concepts of grammar and rhetoric in its discussion, but those discussions are still scientific in nature. There is no basis to the claim that "Science" as described in the Constitution of the United States of America was inteded to mean "literature and painting". You also ignore the "respective writings and discoveries" portion of the clause. Authors write and inventors discover. Authors who write of the sciences are intended to have exclusive rights. Inventors who make technological discoveries are intended to have excluive rights. Any other provision is too far reaching and outside Constitutional scope. The ancients reckoned two classes of art: liberal and servile. But we're not talking about the ancients. In the Renaissance, the idea of "liberal and servile" arts was dismissed and the new idea of fine arts and useful arts was born. > And, for art: > > The employment of means to accomplish some desired end; the > adaptation of things in the natural world to the uses of life; the > application of knowledge or power to practical purposes. And this is absolutely correct and ignores the difference between "fine" and "useful" as we've done since the Rennaisance. Also, recall that Amendment 1 clearly states "Congress shall make no law... abridging [...] the freedom of the press." That SHOULD include copyright. The fact that the courts have willfully ignored this is more a sign of corruption of thought than invalidity of the argument. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Fri Aug 17 17:40:51 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" In-Reply-To: <3B7CC1FF.47E17C6D@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Seth Johnson wrote: > Do you have any references that show how things were different before > the Berne Convention, particularly as relates to the application of > copyright to fine arts? It's been a while since I've read the Copyright Act of 1793, penned by Jefferson himself who was opposed to copyright. I'm not sure how it distinguished works of authorship that carried exclusive rights from works of authorship that did not. The short answer is no, but I think that would be interesting. I don't believe the US has ever implemented a copyright act that was as strict as the Constitutional mandate. And I think the popular perception fo copyright has always been more broad than the law has ever intended. We see that, even today when copyright law is more restrictive of the majority than it ever has been, people still mistake non-infringing acts for infringing ones. Personally, I believe this stems from the belief by most that they, themselves, might some day become an author and be able to retire to the workless life they perceive copyright protection granting them in this magical world. [I had a conversation with a coworker today about real estate and the ethics of renting property. He agreed with everything I said... until I said I thought it should be illegal. Then he rebuffed, "Well, it shouldn't be ILLEGAL." I said, "Why not? You just agreed that it was unethical to take profit from something to which you add no value." And he said, "Well, I was thinking I might want to do it some day!"] The Berne Convention wasn't formally adopted by the United States until 1988, but the concepts within it were adopted gradually over the course of the last century. In particular the 1908 revision of the Berne Convention (the Berlin Act) is the one that prohibited formalities (such as copyright registration and, therefore, publication) as a prerequisite for copyright protection. In 1909 the US revised the Copyright Act to include ALL works of authoriship and the gross extension of copyright to a total of 56 years (which is nothing compared to the Berlin Act's life+50 years or the current US law, Life+70 or 95 for corporate authoriship). Already at this time, the public interest and balance of copyright was swayed toward the concept of proprietor's rights, as opposed to public interest. "The main object to be desired in expanding copyright protection accorded to music has been to give the composer an adequate return for the value of his composition, and it has been a serious and difficult task to combine the protection of the composer with the protection of the public, and to so frame an act that it would accomplish the double purpose of securing to the composer an adequate return for all use made of his composition and at the same time prevent the formation of oppressive monopolies, which might be founded upon the very rights granted to the composer for the purpose of protecting his interests." H.R. Rep. No. 2222 60th Cong., 2nd Sess.7 (1909). The fact of seven media companies today controlling more than 80% of the circulated works of authorship (including music, film, and words) shows how well this "double purpose" was served. Full statutory Berne Convention compliance came with the Copyright Act of 1976 (twelve years before actual signature of the Convention). The 1976 act was the first to make the fair use provision statutory. All fair use, to date, had been based on common law and cases like Folsom v. Marsh, in which Justice Storey stated: "In short, we must often, in deciding questions of this sort, look to the nature and objects of the selections made, the quantity and value of the materials used, and the degree in which the use may prejudice the sale or diminish the profits, or supersede the objects, of the original work." It's important to note, I think, that fair use has received a statutory limitation of scope (as opposed to being left to the discretion of the judiciary). For example, the clearly educational and publicly beneficial nature of the acts in Encyclopedia Britannica v. Crooks show that the statutory implementation of fair use restricts expression far more than the common law. But it was not until 1988 that the US increased its copyright relations with the addition of the 24 Berne signatories not already in copyright treaty with the United states, the removal of a copyright mark or notice on copyrighted works of authorship, and greater protection for proprietors. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From sisgeek at yahoo.com Fri Aug 17 17:42:39 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] 'COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING' In-Reply-To: <001701c1276f$5bbdc0e0$aa847a94@online.no> Message-ID: <20010818004239.91007.qmail@web13903.mail.yahoo.com> hi lars, thanks, this is an excellent article:) do u know if the author or others have modeled the welfare gains/losses associated with the discussed legislative alternatives? or the deadweight calculations? > I would recommend this excellent article explaining > the legislative problems posed by digital works and > technical protection measures: > http://www.ivir.nl/publications/koelman/alaiNY.html > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From crawford at goingware.com Fri Aug 17 21:55:35 2001 From: crawford at goingware.com (Michael D. Crawford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] My DeCSS Mirror Back Up Message-ID: <3B7DF547.2890534E@goingware.com> The Supreme Court has explained that "all ideas having even the slightest redeeming social importance," including those concerning "the advancement of truth, science, morality, and arts" have the full protection of the First Amendment. Roth v. United States, 354 U.S. 476, 484 (1957) Because computer source code is an expressive means for the exchange of information and ideas about computer programming, we hold that it is protected by the First Amendment. - 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, http://pacer.ca6.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/getopn.pl?OPINION=00a0117p.06 In support of the struggle to assert the constitutional right of computer programmers to publish source code despite the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, I have restored my DeCSS mirror, which I had taken down for a while, fearing reprisals. See it at: http://www.goingware.com/decss/ Thank you. Michael D. Crawford -- Michael D. Crawford GoingWare Inc. - Expert Software Development and Consulting http://www.goingware.com crawford@goingware.com Tilting at Windmills for a Better Tomorrow. From jays at panix.com Fri Aug 17 22:26:25 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [netslaves] Grant rocks! (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:21:04 -0700 From: James S. Tyre Reply-To: netslaves@yahoogroups.com To: netslaves@yahoogroups.com Subject: [netslaves] Grant rocks! His editorial today on the Felten/DMCA affair: http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/08/17/207208&mode=thread One of my dinner companions tonight said that Grant's coverage has been far superior to that of any other reporter, online or print. That person is biased, but I am also for very different reasons, being one of the Felten team lawyers. Nice work, Mr. Gross. -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Do you need to encrypt all your online transactions? Secure corporate intranets? Authenticate your Web sites? Whatever security your site needs, you'll find the perfect solution here! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Bre3tC/Q56CAA/yigFAA/HKFolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From jays at panix.com Fri Aug 17 23:07:17 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [nyc-geeks] Pentium 4 mine! Mine! (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 02:02:38 -0400 (EDT) From: John Klos Reply-To: nyc-geeks@yahoogroups.com To: nyc-geeks@yahoogroups.com Subject: [nyc-geeks] Pentium 4 mine! Mine! "They are not licensed to sell products that are compatible with the Pentium 4," Intel spokesman Chuck Mulloy said. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20010817/tc/intel_warns_pc_makers_to_avoid_via_chip_set_1.html ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Do you need to encrypt all your online transactions? Secure corporate intranets? Authenticate your Web sites? Whatever security your site needs, you'll find the perfect solution here! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Bre3tC/Q56CAA/yigFAA/B.EolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: nyc-geeks-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Sat Aug 18 03:23:41 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's defence fund / reply from US embassy Message-ID: <3B7E422D.BD006362@sheffield.ac.uk> Dear all, I've got two e-mails today, one from Joseph M. Burton, Dmitry's leading lawyer and another from Marina Serebryanaya, Dmitry's immigration adviser(?). The Dmitry's defence fund has finally been opened. The information is in the bottom of this message. Maybe we can put in on our web site. Also I received a letter today from Glyn T. Davies, Minister, Deputy Chief of Mission, the US Embassy in London. The date on it says 14 August. This is a reply to my letter from 27 July: http://www.xenoclast.org/free-sklyarov-uk/2001-July/000019.html I was very surprised, I never thought the Embassy will answer. It is a very good letter, although they managed to spell Dmitry's surname wrongly in one place which probably means that they don't really care that much. But the letter is personal, it seems that someone was really writing it for me and it signed by Mr Davies in real ink. He is confident in fair completion of the legal process. He says that the situation has received a lot of attention in the US and abroad, that there are a lot of complicated issues involved, he agreed that the scientific co-operation between the US and the UK is very important etc. This response means that the letter writing does have an effect. It also shows that the Embassy is well informed about the case now. I therefore think that we should continue the letter writing campaign. The situation has changed since Dmitry was released on bail, but the problem remains. Please let me know if someone else will get a response from any authority. anton "Joseph M. Burton" wrote: > > Anton, > > The Defense Fund has now been opened. Here is the relevant information: > > DMITRI DEFENSE FUND > > Wiring Instructions: > > First Union National Bank > Philadelphia, PA > ABA #031201467 > Account #: 2000104359781 > Account Name: Duane, Morris & Heckscher LLP Escrow Account > > *YOU MUST reference "The Dmitri Defense Fund - R0247-2" on all incoming wires.* > > Donation by Check: > > The Dmitri Defense Fund > c/o Duane, Morris & Heckscher LLP > 100 Spear Street, Suite 1500 > San Francisco, California 94105 > USA > > *Please make check payable to "DMH Escrow Agent for Dmitri Defense Fund"* > > Thank you for your interst and support. > > Joe > > >>> Anton Chterenlikht 08/13/01 06:15AM >>> > Hi, > > I've heard that Duan Morris had opened an account or a fund for Dmitry > Sklyarov. Is this true? How can I send him some money? > > Thanks, > anton > > --------------------------------------- > Anton Chterenlikht > Research Assistant > > Mechanical Engineering Department > Sheffield University > Mappin Street > Sheffield S1 3JD > UK > Tel: (+) 114 2227863 > Fax: (+) 114 2227890 > Email: a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk > --------------------------------------- > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL AND IS > INTENDED ONLY FOR THE REVIEW OF THE PARTY TO WHOM IT IS ADDRESSED. IF > YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS TRANSMISSION IN ERROR, PLEASE IMMEDIATELY RETURN > IT TO THE SENDER. UNINTENDED TRANSMISSION SHALL NOT CONSTITUTE WAIVER > OF THE ATTORNEY-CLIENT OR ANY OTHER PRIVILEGE. From larsg at eurorights.org Sat Aug 18 04:35:43 2001 From: larsg at eurorights.org (Lars Gaarden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] 'COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING' References: <20010818004239.91007.qmail@web13903.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004101c127d9$eae5cdc0$aa847a94@online.no> From: "alfee cube" > Lars wrote: > > I would recommend this excellent article explaining > > the legislative problems posed by digital works and > > technical protection measures: > > http://www.ivir.nl/publications/koelman/alaiNY.html > > do u know if the author or others have modeled the > welfare gains/losses associated with the discussed > legislative alternatives? or the deadweight > calculations? Koelman is a legal scholar, so I highly doubt that he has tried to calculate the numbers. It is an excellent idea, though. -- LarsG From mark at blorch.org Sat Aug 18 07:34:45 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Stealing is Stealing Message-ID: <01081807344502.04653@bilbo.blorch.org> Indeed, stealing IS stealing. And "content providers" must be stopped. The intent of our Founders in creating copyright and patent is clear when one reads what they actually wrote on the matter. None other than Thomas Jefferson himself (heard of him?) rejected the concept of "property" in regards to copyright and patents. Indeed, these things were properly viewed as monopolies. Dangerous ones at that. Jefferson had misgivings about the provision for monopolies for years after the ratification of our Constitution and proposed to Madison an amendment be included in what we now know as the Bill of Rights that would strictly limit copyright and patents to a specific, non-renewable term. The Founders had seen how these monopolies had been used in censorship and oppression. They felt that empowering Congress to grant monopolies for a limited time would be useful to society by encouraging "the useful arts and sciences" but they certainly did not intend to create a "property right." The provision granting the power to temporarily create intellectual monopoly is in the same section of the Constitution that grants the power to create the Post Office. That is, it is merely a socially useful function. Not a "right." Nor are we, the public, obligated to expend our tax money and police powers to "protect" this nonexistent, newly fabricated "right." Intellectual monopoly is a limited grant by we, the people, to creative individuals for mutual benefit. And to the extent that the social contract is being breached by greedy corporations, we--the people--are under no obligation to subvert our legal system into a collection agency. Nor are we, the people, obligated to continue to grant intellectual monopoly if the "content providers" are hell bent on stealing our rights and oppressing us. If the "content providers" have decided to fabricate "rights" which do not exist and subvert our Constitution, we can--should we choose--withdraw the protections of copyright and patent. The corporate aristocracy needs to get it through their heads that we GRANT these monopolies. We can WITHDRAW them if corporations abuse the process out of short sighted greed. And speaking of greed, you comment "...I can guarantee that book publishers are not hell-bent on getting multiple fees from buyers of e-books who may choose to legitimately use them on more than one device." That's actually rather funny. Do you think us fools that we cannot see what is going on? Book publishers are "hell-bent" on the pay-per-view model. They would be quite happy if every time we, the public, read a single page, we'd have to cough up another dollar. It is interesting that the above lead in takes you to the comment that "...the costs of intellectual property theft are simply factored into the price legitimate customers pay. I'd be happier to pay for the use I need, and not for the dishonesty of others." Yes, the cost certainly is being "factored in." The cost of enforcing a fictional "right" which is a creation of corporate greed. The cost is a man threatened with being taken from his children because he reverse engineered a software program. I, myself, will not pay that price. Subverting the intent of the Founders and damaging our reputation as a nation of freedom is much too high a price to pay. And far, far too high a price for a product NOBODY WANTS. I'm sure you've seen the survey in which some 75% of the public has rejected electronic books in all forms. We just don't want your product. So apparently corporations are fighting to protect a market that doesn't even exist. But the corporate aristocracy has become fearful as rampant greed is prone to instill in one. Here, even you provide an example with "And I think we all know that the majority of people downloading and using the program Mr. Sklyarov designed are expecting to get something for nothing." How arrogant and hostile to view the public as "theives." The very same public that grants these intellectual monopolies is being cast as grubby peasants that will steal any chance they get. How dare you? And given that you think such things of us, why should we continue to grant you and your friends these monopolies? In fact, why shouldn't we simply public domain everything and start over? We can you know. Copyright and patent are NOT RIGHTS. They are mere services like the Post Office. And when such services become injurous to our actual rights, we can alter or abolish them (to paraphase Mr. Jefferson). "Our entire industry is built on the idea that intellectual property has value. " If this is so, sir, I say we let your "industry" die. If this so called "industry" requires subversion of the Founders' intent, then it should not be allowed to exist. If the cost of your profits is our oppression, then you are the true theives who must be stopped. "We're never going to build walls high enough or obstacles secure enough to protect everything from cowards who choose to take what isn't rightfully theirs." Then if you are honorable people, you'll stop trying to scale those walls with this fabricated grappling hook called "intellectual property." The true cowards trying to take what isn't rightfully theirs are the corporations hiding behind legalistic obfuscation as they make greedy power grabs. Stop the theives. Restore the Founders' intent. Let Dmitry go home. Mark K. Bilbo From mark at blorch.org Sat Aug 18 08:37:01 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01081808370103.04653@bilbo.blorch.org> On Friday 17 August 2001 17:40, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > Personally, I believe this stems from the belief by most that they, > themselves, might some day become an author and be able to retire to the > workless life they perceive copyright protection granting them in this > magical world. As an author, I can only say one thing in regard to the idea that it is some magical wealth machine of a profession: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA!!! Would that it were. Would that it were. Mark From bobds at blorch.org Sat Aug 18 09:32:37 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" In-Reply-To: <20010817012623.M18430@navel.introspect> References: <20010817012623.M18430@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <01081809323702.01038@bitworks> On Friday 17 August 2001 01:26, you wrote: > on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 11:04:41AM -0700, Jeme A Brelin (jeme@brelin.net) wrote: > > On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Sonja V. Tideman wrote: > > > Copyright is a delicate bargain. The government creates a temporary > > > artificial monopoly on a creative work to allow the creator to gain > > > a profit. > > > > This is the propaganda of the copyright industry and an absolute lie. > > It *is* the original intent of copyright. Ummm...actually, not it most definitely is NOT the original intent. Copyright was established as a mechanism to enrich society, and any economic incentives for authors that accompany it are merely the means to that end, not the end itself. But don't take my word for it. Get it from Thomas Jefferson, who wrote about the reasons behind it at the time. > > The public (through their agency, the government) restricts, for a > > limited time, the natural rights of the majority to distribute copies > > or derivatives of individual expressions of an idea and reserves those > > rights exclusively, for that same limited time, for the creator of the > > work AS LONG AS THE CREATOR MAKES THE WORK PUBLIC. > > Interesting thought, and it does raise some interesting avenues of > thought, but I find it a highly dubious proposition. Well, that's what the guys who ESTABLISHED our system of copyrights said they were trying to do. > For the author of, > say, a serial work, the power to impose a scarcity of competing versions > of a work he's created himself can have a significant economic benefit. > Consider, say, the prolific author of our times, Gates. Continued > availability via public publication of earlier versions of his "Windows" > saga would likely significantly impact sales of newer releases in the > series. Copyright is the right to make, or not to make, copies. Yes, let's DO consider Mr. Gates. He's not an author, he derives his living from the intellectual effort of other people--and despite creating NOTHING, he winds up with the billions, and the people who actually write the software wind up with considerably less. This is copyright as a mechanism for enriching speculators and merchants--but clearly NOT a mechanism that enriches the creators of the works. Authors have historically been forced to sell their rights to publishers at dirt-cheap prices, since that was the only market available, and then the publishers have been free to gouge without mercy while the author gets pennies on the dollar AT BEST. As long as self-publishing and direct sales remained impractical, there wasn't much the artists and authors could do about it. Now, however, the game has changed. ---------------------------------------- Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; charset="us-ascii"; name="Attachment: 1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: ---------------------------------------- -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From kmself at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 18 10:56:32 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" In-Reply-To: <01081809323702.01038@bitworks>; from bobds@blorch.org on Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 09:32:37AM -0700 References: <20010817012623.M18430@navel.introspect> <01081809323702.01038@bitworks> Message-ID: <20010818105631.B16836@navel.introspect> on Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 09:32:37AM -0700, Bob Smart (bobds@blorch.org) wrote: > On Friday 17 August 2001 01:26, you wrote: > > on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 11:04:41AM -0700, Jeme A Brelin (jeme@brelin.net) > wrote: > > > On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Sonja V. Tideman wrote: > > > > Copyright is a delicate bargain. The government creates a > > > > temporary artificial monopoly on a creative work to allow the > > > > creator to gain a profit. > > > > > > This is the propaganda of the copyright industry and an absolute > > > lie. > > > > It *is* the original intent of copyright. > > Ummm...actually, not it most definitely is NOT the original intent. > Copyright was established as a mechanism to enrich society, and any > economic incentives for authors that accompany it are merely the means > to that end, not the end itself. Believe me, I understand the concept. Authors are granted an income stream so that society may benefit from their writings. Without the monopoly-derived profit, no writing. Without a public benefit, no justification for the monopoly grant. > > > The public (through their agency, the government) restricts, for a > > > limited time, the natural rights of the majority to distribute > > > copies or derivatives of individual expressions of an idea and > > > reserves those rights exclusively, for that same limited time, for > > > the creator of the work AS LONG AS THE CREATOR MAKES THE WORK > > > PUBLIC. <...> > > For the author of, say, a serial work, the power to impose a > > scarcity of competing versions of a work he's created himself can > > have a significant economic benefit. Consider, say, the prolific > > author of our times, Gates. Continued availability via public > > publication of earlier versions of his "Windows" saga would likely > > significantly impact sales of newer releases in the series. > > Copyright is the right to make, or not to make, copies. > > Yes, let's DO consider Mr. Gates. He's not an author, he derives his > living from the intellectual effort of other people--and despite > creating NOTHING, he winds up with the billions, and the people who > actually write the software wind up with considerably less. I'm not positing Mr. Gates because I'm a champion or fan of his (far from it). This *is* however a case of business-via-planned-obsolesence, facilitated by the fact that copyright law gives him the right to authorize, or withhold the authorization for, making copies. The author's ability to profit may derive either from making, or not making copies. So long as this occurs within the normal span of copyright (and life plus 90 years is completely rediculous, believe you me), this doesn't concern me. > This is copyright as a mechanism for enriching speculators and > merchants--but clearly NOT a mechanism that enriches the creators of > the works. You're now on to a different (though interesting in its own way) topic. Note however that a world in which authors aren't allowed to sell at least limited rights would be one in which they couldn't profit. Again, I agree that present circumstances are often rather unfortunate. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010818/bd447b2c/attachment.pgp From ilya at theIlya.com Sat Aug 18 11:57:56 2001 From: ilya at theIlya.com (Ilya Volynets) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: spam In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01081811575602.02876@gateway> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Yes, I also started getting spam, though I have no evidence it's coming from this list postings... But now, that I'm thinking of it, there is much more spam in my mailbox, since I've signed up. Well... Probably it's unavoidable... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjt+urYACgkQtKh84cA8u2kGhwCfRDeJkY5DSqkJRQSXqqmiLiyT 65gAoJ/nTU4IzX1TwxNwYzMxGQH+UlF9 =t7gY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jays at panix.com Sat Aug 18 14:38:52 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [fairuse] Oxanna's Song (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 17:35:20 -0400 From: Vagn Scott Reply-To: fairuse@mrbrklyn.com To: "fairuse@mrbrklyn.com" Subject: [fairuse] Oxanna's Song I've had this in the back of my mind for a couple of weeks now. Time to write it down and make room for something else. Jay, you know where to send it. ========================= Oxanna's Song Words: Vagn Scott Tune: Traditional ("My Bonnie Lies Over The Ocean") 3/4 time, slow Chorus: E Esus4 E Esus4 Dmitri lies over the ocean, E Esus4 F#m B7 Dmitri lies over the sea, E Esus4 E Esus4 Dmitri lies over the ocean, F#m B7 C#m7 F# Oh bring my Dmitri to me... F#m B7 E Esus4 E Esus4 Bring my Dmitri to me. He sailed to the land of the Yankees, He sailed to the home of the brave. He sailed with a cargo of friendship. And there they have made him a slave... There they have made him a slave. (chorus) As God is my witness he taught them To see through deception and lies. Their wickedness grows without limit. With laws they, the truth, do despise... By law they, the truth, do despise. (chorus) ------- Copyright 2001 Vagn Scott License: Public performance (with or without fee), and/or recording and distribution without fee in .mp3 and/or .ogg format allowed and encouraged. In other words, if it is live, or free and Free, go ahead. (LOFAF) -- _~|__ >@ (vagn( / \`-ooooooooo-'/ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ____________________________ New Yorkers for Fair Use - because it's either fair use or useless.... From bobds at blorch.org Sat Aug 18 17:21:13 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" In-Reply-To: <20010818105631.B16836@navel.introspect> References: <01081809323702.01038@bitworks> <20010818105631.B16836@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <01081817211300.02080@bitworks> On Saturday 18 August 2001 10:56, you wrote: > > Ummm...actually, not it most definitely is NOT the original intent. > > Copyright was established as a mechanism to enrich society, and any > > economic incentives for authors that accompany it are merely the means > > to that end, not the end itself. > > Believe me, I understand the concept. Authors are granted an income > stream so that society may benefit from their writings. Without the > monopoly-derived profit, no writing. Without a public benefit, no > justification for the monopoly grant. Ummm...no, PUBLISHERS get the income. Authors get pennies, publishers get the real money. And yet, inequitable as that system is, writers continue to write. If enrichment of authors truly were the purpose of copyright, it would be an amazingly ineffective system. In fact, some of the greatest literature, music, and other art of all time was created under NO system of copyrights AT ALL. Writing for purely commercial purposes produces...slasher sequels and mindless, derivative sitcoms. > You're now on to a different (though interesting in its own way) topic. > Note however that a world in which authors aren't allowed to sell at > least limited rights would be one in which they couldn't profit. Again, > I agree that present circumstances are often rather unfortunate. Could it possibly be that there are many other reasons for writing (or painting, or composing) besides profit? If profit were really the force that drives authors to write, our system of allocating the bulk of the money to publishers at the expense of authors would have already put an end to writing. Saying that writers wouldn't write without big paychecks is like claiming that without prostitutes, there would be no children. This system we have today has NOTHING to do with "protecting" or "promoting" artists, and everything to do with exploiting them in what was until recently their utter helplessness. Now, to return this to something at least vaguely Sklyarov-related: Dmitry isn't even accused of doing anything wrong to authors or making illegal copies, nor is anybody else accused of using his software for such a purpose! All his software does is enable people to access the books they've already paid for (whoever actually got the money) and even THAT is more than our current system of institutionalized intellectual parasitism can stomach. Encrypted books now effectively no longer enter the public domain AT ALL, no matter how long we wait, because the encryption never self-disables and it's illegal to "traffic" in the tools to make fully legal, legitimate access to the material. The public clearly does not benefit from pay-per-view publishing, and neither do the authors--so who, exactly, are you defending? ---------------------------------------- Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; charset="us-ascii"; name="Attachment: 1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: ---------------------------------------- -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Sat Aug 18 18:07:22 2001 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Brooklyn Linux Solutions) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" In-Reply-To: ; from jeme@brelin.net on Fri, Aug 17, 2001 at 20:36:54 -0400 References: <20010817012623.M18430@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <20010818210722.A28267@www2> On 2001.08.17 20:36:54 -0400 Jeme A Brelin wrote: On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Karsten M. Self wrote: > on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 11:04:41AM -0700, Jeme A Brelin > (jeme@brelin.net) wrote: > > > On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Sonja V. Tideman wrote: > > > > Copyright is a delicate bargain. The government creates a temporary > > > artificial monopoly on a creative work to allow the creator to gain > > > a profit. > > <> No. That is not correct. The original statement is correct. It's a temporary franchise designed to promote the publications of works by increasing the possibiliy of profit. It's never been about absolute control of distribution or presentation....in fact, it was never about presentation at all. It was always asumed that control would be lost of distribution and until recently, copyright violations were punished according to the comercial impact on the copyright franchise. I dare you to discover any quotes from any founding father in relationship to the addition of the copyright clause which states otherwise. In addition, I would add that this is not the same as the government guaranteeing that the franchise would be profitable. It is only an attempt to give the copyright holder the shot at a profitable limited monopoly. Ruben -- Brooklyn Linux Solutions http://www.mrbrklyn.com http://www.brooklynonline.com 1-718-382-5752 From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Sat Aug 18 18:11:55 2001 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Brooklyn Linux Solutions) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] 'COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING' In-Reply-To: <004101c127d9$eae5cdc0$aa847a94@online.no>; from larsg@eurorights.org on Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 07:35:43 -0400 References: <20010818004239.91007.qmail@web13903.mail.yahoo.com> <004101c127d9$eae5cdc0$aa847a94@online.no> Message-ID: <20010818211155.C28267@www2> We've been trying to get someone to work up the number of the cost of the DMCA on the NYC Public School system and the NYC Public Library system. Essentially, we need to work out the cost to the system of any work over 40 years or older which is not available to the system in digital form, versues the same costs of these works if they were available in digital forms, and the systems were equipt to leverage them.... School textbooks alone would be a huge savings to the taxpayer. <> -- Brooklyn Linux Solutions http://www.mrbrklyn.com http://www.brooklynonline.com 1-718-382-5752 From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Sat Aug 18 18:13:47 2001 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Brooklyn Linux Solutions) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: spam In-Reply-To: <01081811575602.02876@gateway>; from ilya@theIlya.com on Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 14:57:56 -0400 References: <01081811575602.02876@gateway> Message-ID: <20010818211347.E28267@www2> The minute I joined this mailing list I started to recieved 3 to 5 spams a day as opposed to ZERO. Is the lists membership currently available though an email command? Ruben On 2001.08.18 14:57:56 -0400 Ilya Volynets wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Yes, I also started getting spam, though I have no evidence it's coming from this list postings... But now, that I'm thinking of it, there is much more spam in my mailbox, since I've signed up. Well... Probably it's unavoidable... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjt+urYACgkQtKh84cA8u2kGhwCfRDeJkY5DSqkJRQSXqqmiLiyT 65gAoJ/nTU4IzX1TwxNwYzMxGQH+UlF9 =t7gY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Brooklyn Linux Solutions http://www.mrbrklyn.com http://www.brooklynonline.com 1-718-382-5752 From crism at maden.org Sat Aug 18 18:21:03 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: spam In-Reply-To: <20010818211347.E28267@www2> References: <01081811575602.02876@gateway> <01081811575602.02876@gateway> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010818181922.00a59350@mail.maden.org> At 18:13 18-08-2001, Brooklyn Linux Solutions wrote: >The minute I joined this mailing list I started to recieved 3 to 5 spams a >day as opposed to ZERO. > >Is the lists membership currently available though an email command? I was trying not to reply, since this is off-topic: The spam is not being sent to the list. If it were, it would be prefixed with [free-sklyarov]. It isn't, so it's not. Spammers are harvesting the addresses of those who have posted to the list. The list is archived on the Web, and every poster's e-mail address is given in their archived posts. Any spambot could (and has, apparently) easily harvest these addresses. There is nothing the list managers can do any more, except possibly take down the archive to limit further harvesting. -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From ca2027001 at sneakemail.com Sat Aug 18 14:39:14 2001 From: ca2027001 at sneakemail.com (ca2027001@sneakemail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: spam Message-ID: <134690342.998185168438.JavaMail.root@boots> There have been two spams from the spammer who harvested email addresses from this list. Unfortunaely, if you do any posting to the internet you set yourself up for lots of spam. One trick is to use "disposable" addresses to save your primary address from being ruined. A spam toolkit; http://www.spammotel.com/ http://www.sneakemail.com/ http://www.spamcop.net Unfotunately, once a spammer has your address, it is impossible to get it off his list. Congress has been really diappointing in dealing with spam; http://www.cauce.org/news/index.shtml The direct marketing organization, just another special interest that owns your congress, has prevented spam legislation from going forward. Phillip K. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brooklyn Linux Solutions ruben@mrbrklyn.com [eclectro/dmitry]" Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Re: spam > > The minute I joined this mailing list I started to recieved 3 to 5 spams a > day as opposed to ZERO. > > > Is the lists membership currently available though an email command? > > Ruben From kmself at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 18 18:45:05 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" In-Reply-To: <01081817211300.02080@bitworks>; from bobds@blorch.org on Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 05:21:13PM -0700 References: <01081809323702.01038@bitworks> <20010818105631.B16836@navel.introspect> <01081817211300.02080@bitworks> Message-ID: <20010818184505.B28999@navel.introspect> on Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 05:21:13PM -0700, Bob Smart (bobds@blorch.org) wrote: > On Saturday 18 August 2001 10:56, you wrote: > > > > Ummm...actually, not it most definitely is NOT the original intent. > > > Copyright was established as a mechanism to enrich society, and any > > > economic incentives for authors that accompany it are merely the means > > > to that end, not the end itself. > > > > Believe me, I understand the concept. Authors are granted an income > > stream so that society may benefit from their writings. Without the > > monopoly-derived profit, no writing. Without a public benefit, no > > justification for the monopoly grant. > > Ummm...no, PUBLISHERS get the income. You're changing the subject, again. The original point was Sonja's, that copyright is a balance of interests. I won't repeat myself, as you're already failing to read what I write. A few comments interspersed in the OT wanderings below. > In fact, some of the greatest literature, music, and other art of all > time was created under NO system of copyrights AT ALL. Historically, the Busking Protocol is probably the Street Performer (Busking) Protocol, particularly in pre-copyright eras. Essentially anything prior to the 1710 passage of the Statute of Anne, in England. > Writing for purely commercial purposes produces...slasher sequels and > mindless, derivative sitcoms. There was actually an interesting little experiment on copyright protections called the French Revolution. The major product of the times was little different from what you describe, incidentally. > This system we have today has NOTHING to do with "protecting" or > "promoting" artists, and everything to do with exploiting them in what > was until recently their utter helplessness. I'm in large agreement with your assessment of the current state of affairs. I disagree with you on some of its origins. > Now, to return this to something at least vaguely Sklyarov-related: > Dmitry isn't even accused of doing anything wrong to authors or making > illegal copies, nor is anybody else accused of using his software for > such a purpose! All his software does is enable people to access the > books they've already paid for (whoever actually got the money) and > even THAT is more than our current system of institutionalized > intellectual parasitism can stomach. Viz: Copyright is a delicate bargain. The government creates a temporary artificial monopoly on a creative work to allow the creator to gain a profit. In return, the public gets the benefit of using, and eventually gaining, that piece of work. The key part of copyright, the nasty truth that everyone seems so ready to forget, is that it is for the benefit of the public. It is NOT for the benefit of business, or even for the creators. It, of course, hopes to enable the creators to profit from their work, but, if copyright ceases to benefit society as a whole, that the constitutional basis of copyright is ruined. If the damage to society in the support of copyright is greater than the benefit, constitutional copyright is again ruined. I personally feel that the DMCA destroys any notion of the balance. It takes away all concepts of fair use. ...in the event you missed it, that's Sonja's comment about six posts back. I'm in full agreement with her views as expressed. As are you, it appears. I call this "violent agreement". -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010818/b080133c/attachment.pgp From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Sat Aug 18 18:44:28 2001 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Brooklyn Linux Solutions) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: spam In-Reply-To: <134690342.998185168438.JavaMail.root@boots>; from ca2027001@sneakemail.com on Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 17:39:14 -0400 References: <134690342.998185168438.JavaMail.root@boots> Message-ID: <20010818214428.A28577@www2> Thank you for your reply. I have a very high profile on the internet and my email address is everywhere. Look me up on Yahoo and see. And yet, the problems started with addibng myself to this list. I have a decent spam filter setup which historically filters out most of my spam, but it seems to me that someone is getting this lists entire membership daily. I would check thay the membership is not available as this is an option on many list processors. Ruben -- Brooklyn Linux Solutions http://www.mrbrklyn.com http://www.brooklynonline.com 1-718-382-5752 From kmself at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 18 19:02:22 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: spam In-Reply-To: <134690342.998185168438.JavaMail.root@boots>; from ca2027001@sneakemail.com on Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 09:39:14PM -0000 References: <134690342.998185168438.JavaMail.root@boots> Message-ID: <20010818190222.C28999@navel.introspect> on Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 09:39:14PM -0000, ca2027001@sneakemail.com (ca2027001@sneakemail.com) wrote: > > > There have been two spams from the spammer who harvested email > addresses from this list. Unfortunaely, if you do any posting to the > internet you set yourself up for lots of spam. One trick is to use > "disposable" addresses to save your primary address from being ruined. Note that this discussion's off topic. I'll be brief. As noted, spam harvesting is occuring from list archives or other records, significant spam isn't being sent to the list. Of various countermeasures, I prefer a strong filtering system. I get about 6 spams per day (broadly defined to include a wide range of sins: broken list responders, vacation programs, etc.). Most go to a folder where I can quickly assess if it's truely junk or a filter foul-up. I use a tool to quickly tag and report spam. I'll be happy to discuss these off-list. Evasive manuvers like munging addresses and/or changing them frequently seem to be both excessive and a concession to the spammers -- you're making your own life, and the lives of those who want to contact you -- very difficult. I've got a six year old, well known, address, posted to many lists and groups. Higher exposure is unlikely. My own spam burden is relatively low. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010818/1b9297e3/attachment.pgp From jays at panix.com Sat Aug 18 19:03:15 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] 'COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING' In-Reply-To: <20010818211155.C28267@www2> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Aug 2001, Brooklyn Linux Solutions wrote: > > We've been trying to get someone to work up the number of the cost of > the DMCA on the NYC Public School system and the NYC Public Library > system. > > Essentially, we need to work out the cost to the system of any work > over 40 years or older which is not available to the system in digital > form, versues the same costs of these works if they were available in > digital forms, and the systems were equipt to leverage them.... > > School textbooks alone would be a huge savings to the taxpayer. > > > < has tried to calculate the numbers. > > It is an excellent idea, though.>> > > > -- > Brooklyn Linux Solutions Let me put in a word against spending more than a couple of hours on trying to get such an estimate. Any honest estimate will vary wildly under different assumptions. And the space of assumptions is itself ill defined. Most of the reasonable sounding assumptions are also subject to effective attack by the other side. Indeed, their whole argument is that without the new trammels, much less good work will be produced. So, out of the starting gate, there is controversy over the sign of the estimate. I do not think there is any solid impressive number we can effectively argue for. But, very nearby there are much more solid numbers: 1. The extraordinary overcharges for scholarly journals of the past twenty years. 2. The extraordinary locking-up by copyright extension of works which the Founders thought should by now be in the public domain. 3. The extraordinary heavy chill already settling on both research in cryptography and computer security, and ordinary Consumers Reports style reviews of software. 4. The extraordinary increase in planned charges to public libraries for what once would have been reasonable priced usage of books. These numbers can be understood and most people will find them shocking. oo--JS. From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Sat Aug 18 19:18:11 2001 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Brooklyn Linux Solutions CEO) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] 'COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING' In-Reply-To: from Jay Sulzberger at "Aug 18, 2001 10:03:15 pm" Message-ID: <200108190218.f7J2IBk28847@www2.mrbrklyn.com> > > Let me put in a word against spending more than a couple of hours on > trying to get such an estimate. I would very much disagree. Lobbies and Corperations spend a fortune on EXACTLY this kind of data. They then churn this data through marketing departments which are hugely funded. And then supply this 'education' to decision makers. The lynch pin to a successful campain is being armed with information to substaniate your case, and then being a pitbull to press your case. > Any honest estimate will vary wildly > under different assumptions. Good - we'll pick the best one for us. >And the space of assumptions is itself ill > defined. It's exactly defined. We need to know all the current costs of copyrighted works over 40 years old to these institutions, and textbooks. Then we need the cost of imploying the technology to make them digitally available to students. Then we compare them. Then we compare them to the costs being proposed buy closed systems. Then we add the costs that we can estimate if databases also fall into DMCA type control. >Most of the reasonable sounding assumptions are also subject to > effective attack by the other side. So? Hire James Carivelle >Indeed, their whole argument is that > without the new trammels, much less good work will be produced. So, out > of the starting gate, there is controversy over the sign of the estimate. > I do not think there is any solid impressive number we can effectively > argue for. But, very nearby there are much more solid numbers: > > 1. The extraordinary overcharges for scholarly journals of the past twenty > years. Not used by public schools. Unimportant to Tax Payers, especially those paying elementry school taxes and teachers unions. > > 2. The extraordinary locking-up by copyright extension of works which the > Founders thought should by now be in the public domain. Put a number on it. > > 3. The extraordinary heavy chill already settling on both research in > cryptography and computer security, and ordinary Consumers Reports style > reviews of software. > Put a number on the costs. Not that this is going to drive votes. > 4. The extraordinary increase in planned charges to public libraries for > what once would have been reasonable priced usage of books. > Put a number on it. > These numbers can be understood and most people will find them shocking. > > oo--JS. > We want to drive votes. We want to show we can hire 5000 more teachers if the DMCA and the Copyright extenssion was abolished tomorrow, thereby decreasing the digital divide and lowering PROPERTTY TAXES. Anything which lowers Property Taxes is going to be loved..... Ruben From jays at panix.com Sat Aug 18 19:41:10 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] 'COMMENTARY: STEALING IS STEALING' In-Reply-To: <200108190218.f7J2IBk28847@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: Ruben, I do not think we much disagree here. I took your suggestion to be a call for a real estimate of the effects of repealing the DMCA on the whole system of publication. But now, as far as I can see, my four numbers, and others like them, are actually close to what you asked for. ad using the techniques of the other side: We mostly cannot. The other side has millions to spend and their publicity firms are not concerned with the truth of their claims. Because we do not have millions, our arguments must be effective with the press and with people who have not thought as long as we have about such matters. That means, we must not only be passionately scrupulous in our regard for truth, but we must even be careful to present first those arguments that are strongest in the eyes of reporters and people not already on our side. oo--JS. From jeme at brelin.net Sat Aug 18 20:28:08 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" In-Reply-To: <01081808370103.04653@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Aug 2001, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: > On Friday 17 August 2001 17:40, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > > Personally, I believe this stems from the belief by most that they, > > themselves, might some day become an author and be able to retire to the > > workless life they perceive copyright protection granting them in this > > magical world. > > As an author, I can only say one thing in regard to the idea that it is some > magical wealth machine of a profession: > > > BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA!!! > > Just to make it clear, I know this quite well. I'm talking about ignorant people... these are people that are "too smart" to play the lottery, but think that writing a book will make them millionaires... or maybe some day their band will be "discovered". J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Sat Aug 18 20:45:37 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" In-Reply-To: <20010818210722.A28267@www2> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Aug 2001, Brooklyn Linux Solutions wrote: > < DISTRIBUTION AND PRESENTATION. >> > > No. That is not correct. The original statement is correct. It's a > temporary franchise designed to promote the publications of works by > increasing the possibiliy of profit. Read Jefferson. The possibility for monetary gain through the limited monopoly of copyright (not so limited anymore, but I digress) is a side-effect of the essential need to preserve the work in the author's desired form. > It's never been about absolute control of distribution or > presentation....in fact, it was never about presentation at all. It > was always asumed that control would be lost of distribution and until > recently, copyright violations were punished according to the > comercial impact on the copyright franchise. So how would one go about "punishing" a copyright violation on a freely distributed pamphlet? It's completely true that the courts have supported the notion that copyright is a mechanism for protecting profits, but that argument does not extend to copyright of not-for-profit works. We cannot become a nation that recognizes only work for profit as valid. There are countless other modes of human interaction. If the law favors only the profit motive, then we will all become like the soulless corporation, those "Frankensteins among us", as one Supreme Court Justice put it, with no ability to reckon other values against greed. > I dare you to discover any quotes from any founding father in > relationship to the addition of the copyright clause which states > otherwise. I'd put you to the same challenge. > In addition, I would add that this is not the same as the government > guaranteeing that the franchise would be profitable. It is only an > attempt to give the copyright holder the shot at a profitable limited > monopoly. Well, other state granted monopolies DO receive guaranteed profits. I disagree with both. In fact, I think that if the public agrees that it is appropriate for no competition to exist in a given endeavor, the public should take that endeavor upon itself. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jono at microshaft.org Sat Aug 18 20:31:41 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [jono@microshaft.org: [tm] Never help the FBI] Message-ID: <20010818203141.I67344@networkcommand.com> ----- Forwarded message from Sean D ----- X-Sent: 18 Aug 2001 23:43:40 GMT X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.9.3.5 Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 16:43:40 -0700 Reply-To: Law & Policy of Computer Communications Subject: [CYBERIA] Never help the FBI To: CYBERIA-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM http://www.linuxfreak.org/post.php/08/17/2001/134.html ********************************************************************** For Listserv Instructions, see http://www.lawlists.net/cyberia Off-Topic threads: http://www.lawlists.net/mailman/listinfo/cyberia-ot Need more help? Send mail to: Cyberia-L-Request@listserv.aol.com ********************************************************************** ----- End forwarded message ----- ----- End forwarded message ----- From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Sat Aug 18 20:35:48 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] spam issues Message-ID: As per mailman response below, this list does NOT disclose subscriber email addresses to anyone other than admins. I'm quite certain that the spam is due to harvesting of emails off the web archive. This is affirmed further by the fact that I have gotten spam on a brand-new account from which no one ever emailed, and which was only _mentioned_ in a _message_ on this list a couple of times. Unless someone created a special account just for this list, subscribed it, and never posted from there, and still got spam on it, there's no good reason to believe the subscriber list is being disclosed. -- -alexf ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 20:33:02 -0700 From: free-sklyarov-request@zork.net To: alexf@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Subject: Mailman results for free-sklyarov This is an automated response. There were problems with the email commands you sent to Mailman via the administrative address . To obtain instructions on valid Mailman email commands, send email to with the word "help" in the subject line or in the body of the message. If you want to reach the human being that manages this mailing list, please send your message to . The following is a detailed description of the problems. ***** who >>>>> Private list: No one may see subscription list. From ruben at mrbrklyn.com Sat Aug 18 20:51:08 2001 From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Brooklyn Linux Solutions CEO) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" In-Reply-To: from Jeme A Brelin at "Aug 18, 2001 08:45:37 pm" Message-ID: <200108190351.f7J3p8S29632@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Greeting > > Read Jefferson. The possibility for monetary gain through the limited > monopoly of copyright (not so limited anymore, but I digress) is a > side-effect of the essential need to preserve the work in the author's > desired form. > This can go on forever. I have read Jefferson, and Madison, and posted this conversation previosuly. Jefferson the Pirate clearly and repeatedly discussed the the detriment of Mononoplies on the public and the relented to Madison because, specifically, of the potential monetary gains possible as a reward for publication. There was never ever ever and expectation of absolute control of the articles after publication. Fair Use was built into the assumptions of Copyright. This is the last I'll write ont his, especially since I've already published nearly the entire Jeffersonian look at Copyright in other venues. Ruben From mark at blorch.org Sat Aug 18 21:43:37 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [jono@microshaft.org: [tm] Never help the FBI] In-Reply-To: <20010818203141.I67344@networkcommand.com> References: <20010818203141.I67344@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <01081821433705.06839@bilbo.blorch.org> Well,there you go. Under NO circumstances should ANYBODY report website or other network security problems encountered. Let the corporate bastards twist in the wind. NEVER offer help of any kind. No good deed will go unpunished. Mark On Saturday 18 August 2001 20:31, Jon O . wrote: > ----- Forwarded message from Sean D ----- > > X-Sent: 18 Aug 2001 23:43:40 GMT > X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.9.3.5 > Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 16:43:40 -0700 > Reply-To: Law & Policy of Computer Communications > Subject: [CYBERIA] Never help the FBI > To: CYBERIA-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM > > http://www.linuxfreak.org/post.php/08/17/2001/134.html From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Sat Aug 18 22:15:35 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" In-Reply-To: <01081817211300.02080@bitworks> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Aug 2001, Bob Smart wrote: > Ummm...no, PUBLISHERS get the income. Authors get pennies, publishers get > the real money. And yet, inequitable as that system is, writers continue to > write. That's a great response to have ready, when we hear the claim that, "maybe artists will stop creating new work if they can't make a buck." Artists *already* don't make a buck: the industry makes a buck, and the artist makes a couple pennies. The very notion that bands will stop playing and authors will stop writing if the publishing/recording industry can't keep their gigantic profit margins is just ludicrous. > Saying that writers wouldn't write without big paychecks is like > claiming that without prostitutes, there would be no children. If you don't mind, I want to put this quote in a .signature file. Someone put this on the anti-dmca quote list. -Xcott From tom at lemuria.org Sat Aug 18 22:56:38 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: spam In-Reply-To: <134690342.998185168438.JavaMail.root@boots>; from ca2027001@sneakemail.com on Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 09:39:14PM -0000 References: <134690342.998185168438.JavaMail.root@boots> Message-ID: <20010819075637.B14593@lemuria.org> On Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 09:39:14PM -0000, ca2027001@sneakemail.com wrote: > The direct marketing organization, just another special > interest that owns your congress, has prevented spam > legislation from going forward. well, at least there's one GOOD thing coming out of the current legislation craze. with the Hague Convention, not only will your stupid laws suddenly apply to europeans, but our anti-spam laws will finally be worth something. :) -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From tom at lemuria.org Sat Aug 18 23:31:15 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" In-Reply-To: ; from jeme@brelin.net on Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 08:45:37PM -0700 References: <20010818210722.A28267@www2> Message-ID: <20010819083114.C14593@lemuria.org> On Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 08:45:37PM -0700, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > Read Jefferson. The possibility for monetary gain through the limited > monopoly of copyright (not so limited anymore, but I digress) is a > side-effect of the essential need to preserve the work in the author's > desired form. addition here: the GERMAN copyright law explicitly mentions integrity of the work as one of the rights the author has. it mentions two sets of rights "personal" and "commercial" (my translation!). personal rights are: right to publish, acknowledgement of authorship and protection of the works integrity. commercial rights are stuff like copying and publishing (different angle this time), broadcasting etc. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From jono at microshaft.org Sat Aug 18 23:49:56 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" In-Reply-To: ; from sacraver@EE.Princeton.EDU on Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 01:15:35AM -0400 References: <01081817211300.02080@bitworks> Message-ID: <20010818234956.J67344@networkcommand.com> On 19-Aug-2001, Xcott Craver wrote: > On Sat, 18 Aug 2001, Bob Smart wrote: > > > Ummm...no, PUBLISHERS get the income. Authors get pennies, publishers get > > the real money. And yet, inequitable as that system is, writers continue to > > write. > > That's a great response to have ready, when we hear the claim > that, "maybe artists will stop creating new work if they can't > make a buck." Artists *already* don't make a buck: the industry > makes a buck, and the artist makes a couple pennies. > > The very notion that bands will stop playing and authors will > stop writing if the publishing/recording industry can't keep > their gigantic profit margins is just ludicrous. > > > Saying that writers wouldn't write without big paychecks is like > > claiming that without prostitutes, there would be no children. > > If you don't mind, I want to put this quote in a .signature file. > Someone put this on the anti-dmca quote list. Yes, this is a good quote. Here is another article that is related to this issue, however it's concern is music not writing: Salon: Courtney Love does the math: http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/06/14/love/index.html From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Aug 19 00:06:19 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" In-Reply-To: References: <01081817211300.02080@bitworks> Message-ID: <20010819000619.I21944@zork.net> Xcott Craver writes: > > Saying that writers wouldn't write without big paychecks is like > > claiming that without prostitutes, there would be no children. > > If you don't mind, I want to put this quote in a .signature file. > Someone put this on the anti-dmca quote list. Say, Scott, congratulations on "Reading Between the Lines"! I just listened to the Ogg files today. For other list members: Cindy spoke a bit about Dmitry Sklyarov during the panel after the presentation. http://www.usenix.org/events/sec01/craver.pdf http://207.22.26.75/ogg/tnc-0591.ogg http://207.22.26.75/ogg/tnc-0593.ogg If you don't have an Ogg Vorbis player yet: http://www.vorbis.com/ -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Aug 19 00:08:50 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: spam In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010818181922.00a59350@mail.maden.org> References: <01081811575602.02876@gateway> <01081811575602.02876@gateway> <5.0.2.1.0.20010818181922.00a59350@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <20010819000850.J21944@zork.net> Christopher R. Maden writes: > The spam is not being sent to the list. If it were, it would be prefixed > with [free-sklyarov]. It isn't, so it's not. To be precise, the list is getting an average of ten spam messages a day or more. Because of the "subscriber-only" posting policy, these messages are all flagged for my review, and I always reject them. No spam is _making it_ to the list, but lots of spam is being sent to the list! -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From jono at microshaft.org Sun Aug 19 00:38:12 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [jono@microshaft.org: [tm] Never help the FBI] In-Reply-To: <01081821433705.06839@bilbo.blorch.org>; from mark@blorch.org on Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 09:43:37PM -0700 References: <20010818203141.I67344@networkcommand.com> <01081821433705.06839@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <20010819003812.L67344@networkcommand.com> Here is the contact info for the people running the vulnerable site he was attempting to assist with a fix: http://www.pdns.com/contact.htm Address: Poteau Daily News & Sun P.O. Box 1237 804 N. Broadway Poteau, OK 74953 Office Hours: 7a.m. - 6p.m. Mon.-Fri. 8a.m. to Noon Sat. Phone Numbers: (918) 647-3188 (918) 647-8198 Fax Email: pdns@pdns.com publisher@pdns.com This whole thing is totally outrageous. On 18-Aug-2001, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: > Well,there you go. > > Under NO circumstances should ANYBODY report website or other network > security problems encountered. Let the corporate bastards twist in the wind. > NEVER offer help of any kind. > > No good deed will go unpunished. > > Mark > > On Saturday 18 August 2001 20:31, Jon O . wrote: > > ----- Forwarded message from Sean D ----- > > > > X-Sent: 18 Aug 2001 23:43:40 GMT > > X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.9.3.5 > > Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 16:43:40 -0700 > > Reply-To: Law & Policy of Computer Communications > > Subject: [CYBERIA] Never help the FBI > > To: CYBERIA-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM > > > > http://www.linuxfreak.org/post.php/08/17/2001/134.html From lgorkin1 at nyc.rr.com Sun Aug 19 07:38:24 2001 From: lgorkin1 at nyc.rr.com (Leonid Gorkin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NYC Free Dmitry/Anti-DMCA demonstration on Monday In-Reply-To: <20010819003812.L67344@networkcommand.com> References: <20010818203141.I67344@networkcommand.com> <01081821433705.06839@bilbo.blorch.org> <20010819003812.L67344@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <01081910382400.12898@shire> We will have our Monday demonstration as always, starting at noon, in front of New York public library. We will demand to drop charges against Dmitry Sklyarov and repel the DMCA, and start signing the petition to attorney general and NY members of the congress. Please bring your signs, please use no sticks (police asked us nicely about it). So, once again: Monday, August 20, 12:00 noon, in front of New York public library, 41st Street & 5th Avenue. Come join us!!! For more information: New Yorkers for fair use group: http://www.nyfairuse.org EFF: http://www.eff.org Free Dmitry Sklyarov campaign: http://www.freesklyarov.org If you have any questions, please e-mail me: lgorkin@yahoo.com From bobds at blorch.org Sun Aug 19 15:34:58 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01081915345800.05151@bitworks> On Saturday 18 August 2001 22:15, you wrote: > > Saying that writers wouldn't write without big paychecks is like > > claiming that without prostitutes, there would be no children. > > If you don't mind, I want to put this quote in a .signature file. > Someone put this on the anti-dmca quote list. > > -Xcott Sig away (my own .sig explains the licensing terms--there ain't none). But thanks for admiring it. -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From vadim at xcf.berkeley.edu Sun Aug 19 18:36:54 2001 From: vadim at xcf.berkeley.edu (Vadim Kogan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Yet another FBI-involved incident Message-ID: <20010819183654.M32686@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> http://www.linuxfreak.org/post.php/08/17/2001/134.html IMHO the article is perfectly clear. Read it for yourself. Vadim. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010819/d9abac24/attachment.pgp From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sun Aug 19 21:03:40 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF Alert on the FTAA and IP Controls Message-ID: EFF alert on the FTAA and IP Controls http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010816_eff_ftaa_alert.en.html James S. Huggins From wiljan at pobox.com Sun Aug 19 21:50:58 2001 From: wiljan at pobox.com (Will Janoschka) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Good Phrase Message-ID: <200108200523.AAA000.98@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> 'Ben lurking here for awhile. The stuff "crippled rights" etc gives into your opponents arguments. Upon ocasion I have heard "I am not a market" I wish I could give credit. This may be 'your' phrase. Consider that it is not demanding, it is very clear, the FBI, DoJ, and the US congress will understand the message. You do not want to demand or threaten these folks, they have tactical nuckes. Lots of signs with "I am not a market" will get government attention, and people will question, best have a good answer. For your real enemy, the various so called non profit trade organizations DVDCCA, MPAA, AAP, RIAA, WIPO, WTO, etc that do not have tactical nukes, you can perhaps get a bit more aggressive: "I am not a market" cease, desist, go away. If you persist I must evicerate, I shall destroy, "I am not a market". Be afraid, be very afraid. "I am not a market". From tom at lemuria.org Sun Aug 19 22:23:24 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Good Phrase In-Reply-To: <200108200523.AAA000.98@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net>; from wiljan@pobox.com on Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 10:50:58PM -0600 References: <200108200523.AAA000.98@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> Message-ID: <20010820072324.D15219@lemuria.org> On Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 10:50:58PM -0600, Will Janoschka wrote: > The stuff "crippled rights" etc gives into your opponents arguments. > Upon ocasion I have heard "I am not a market" I wish I could give > credit. This may be 'your' phrase. Consider that it is not demanding, I think it's from the cluetrain manifesto. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sun Aug 19 22:37:29 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: On the Periphery: Technology Review - Taming the Web In-Reply-To: Message-ID: http://www.techreview.com/magazine/sep01/mann.asp From kreizykid at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 00:29:08 2001 From: kreizykid at hotmail.com (Josiah Draper) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: free-sklyarov digest, Vol 1 #201 - 31 msgs References: Message-ID: Funny, I've learned more things about copyright from this list than any of my high school teachers. Isn't a rich nation like the us supposed to be teaching these basic concepts? From: Bob Smart Reply-To: bobds@blorch.org Organization: Blorch! To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:32:37 -0700 On Friday 17 August 2001 01:26, you wrote: > on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 11:04:41AM -0700, Jeme A Brelin (jeme@brelin.net) wrote: > > On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Sonja V. Tideman wrote: > > > Copyright is a delicate bargain. The government creates a temporary > > > artificial monopoly on a creative work to allow the creator to gain > > > a profit. > > > > This is the propaganda of the copyright industry and an absolute lie. > > It *is* the original intent of copyright. Ummm...actually, not it most definitely is NOT the original intent. Copyright was established as a mechanism to enrich society, and any economic incentives for authors that accompany it are merely the means to that end, not the end itself. But don't take my word for it. Get it from Thomas Jefferson, who wrote about the reasons behind it at the time. > > The public (through their agency, the government) restricts, for a > > limited time, the natural rights of the majority to distribute copies > > or derivatives of individual expressions of an idea and reserves those > > rights exclusively, for that same limited time, for the creator of the > > work AS LONG AS THE CREATOR MAKES THE WORK PUBLIC. > > Interesting thought, and it does raise some interesting avenues of > thought, but I find it a highly dubious proposition. Well, that's what the guys who ESTABLISHED our system of copyrights said they were trying to do. > For the author of, > say, a serial work, the power to impose a scarcity of competing versions > of a work he's created himself can have a significant economic benefit. > Consider, say, the prolific author of our times, Gates. Continued > availability via public publication of earlier versions of his "Windows" > saga would likely significantly impact sales of newer releases in the > series. Copyright is the right to make, or not to make, copies. Yes, let's DO consider Mr. Gates. He's not an author, he derives his living from the intellectual effort of other people--and despite creating NOTHING, he winds up with the billions, and the people who actually write the software wind up with considerably less. This is copyright as a mechanism for enriching speculators and merchants--but clearly NOT a mechanism that enriches the creators of the works. Authors have historically been forced to sell their rights to publishers at dirt-cheap prices, since that was the only market available, and then the publishers have been free to gouge without mercy while the author gets pennies on the dollar AT BEST. As long as self-publishing and direct sales remained impractical, there wasn't much the artists and authors could do about it. Now, however, the game has changed. ---------------------------------------- Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; charset="us-ascii"; name="Attachment: 1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: ---------------------------------------- -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From kreizykid at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 00:29:53 2001 From: kreizykid at hotmail.com (Josiah Draper) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" References: Message-ID: Funny, I've learned more things about copyright from this list than any of my high school teachers. Isn't a rich nation like the us supposed to be teaching these basic concepts? From: Bob Smart Reply-To: bobds@blorch.org Organization: Blorch! To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Another ebook "processor" Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:32:37 -0700 On Friday 17 August 2001 01:26, you wrote: > on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 11:04:41AM -0700, Jeme A Brelin (jeme@brelin.net) wrote: > > On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Sonja V. Tideman wrote: > > > Copyright is a delicate bargain. The government creates a temporary > > > artificial monopoly on a creative work to allow the creator to gain > > > a profit. > > > > This is the propaganda of the copyright industry and an absolute lie. > > It *is* the original intent of copyright. Ummm...actually, not it most definitely is NOT the original intent. Copyright was established as a mechanism to enrich society, and any economic incentives for authors that accompany it are merely the means to that end, not the end itself. But don't take my word for it. Get it from Thomas Jefferson, who wrote about the reasons behind it at the time. > > The public (through their agency, the government) restricts, for a > > limited time, the natural rights of the majority to distribute copies > > or derivatives of individual expressions of an idea and reserves those > > rights exclusively, for that same limited time, for the creator of the > > work AS LONG AS THE CREATOR MAKES THE WORK PUBLIC. > > Interesting thought, and it does raise some interesting avenues of > thought, but I find it a highly dubious proposition. Well, that's what the guys who ESTABLISHED our system of copyrights said they were trying to do. > For the author of, > say, a serial work, the power to impose a scarcity of competing versions > of a work he's created himself can have a significant economic benefit. > Consider, say, the prolific author of our times, Gates. Continued > availability via public publication of earlier versions of his "Windows" > saga would likely significantly impact sales of newer releases in the > series. Copyright is the right to make, or not to make, copies. Yes, let's DO consider Mr. Gates. He's not an author, he derives his living from the intellectual effort of other people--and despite creating NOTHING, he winds up with the billions, and the people who actually write the software wind up with considerably less. This is copyright as a mechanism for enriching speculators and merchants--but clearly NOT a mechanism that enriches the creators of the works. Authors have historically been forced to sell their rights to publishers at dirt-cheap prices, since that was the only market available, and then the publishers have been free to gouge without mercy while the author gets pennies on the dollar AT BEST. As long as self-publishing and direct sales remained impractical, there wasn't much the artists and authors could do about it. Now, however, the game has changed. ---------------------------------------- Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; charset="us-ascii"; name="Attachment: 1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: ---------------------------------------- -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From kreizykid at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 00:45:31 2001 From: kreizykid at hotmail.com (Josiah Draper) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Spam Solution...lets get rid of spam References: Message-ID: Ok... If I am at least somewhat similar to the rest of you (which i believe i am), I don't exactly like most of the spams i get. Especially when, after I joined this list, I get porno spam email. If I wanted the stuff i could get it myself all to easily. So my idea is this. Whenever somebody spams you, save the address it was sent from and the reply-to address somewhere and send the addresses to the list, Or just email them to me. I (or someone else) will trace the address to their isp and/or email provider, and complain. I have lots of time on my hand.... If anyone has an idea, even if you don't think it is better, speak up! Even if you don't think it is better it might inspire others on how to make a better one! -Josiah Draper kreizykid@hotmail.com on msn messenger^, Yahoo: kreizykid , ICQ: 75986519 http://langel.5u.com (still way under construction,will host standard site [www.zzzzzz.zzz] soon, no ads!) From crism at maden.org Mon Aug 20 00:54:40 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Spam Solution...lets get rid of spam In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010820005332.00a54ec0@mail.maden.org> At 00:45 20-08-2001, Josiah Draper wrote: >Whenever >somebody spams you, save the address it was sent from and the reply-to >address somewhere and send the addresses to the list, Or just email them to >me. Please *don't* send them to the list. This spam discussion is off-topic, and we don't need to generate more traffic. There are plenty of fora for discussing spam; see cauce.org for more. -crism, who doesn't play net.cop very often -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From xfilez at omskcity.com Mon Aug 20 03:18:54 2001 From: xfilez at omskcity.com (Alex Shtol) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] U.S. are trying to make their laws global Message-ID: <8719410240.20010820171854@omskcity.com> U.S. are trying to make their laws global, but Internet is not U.S. property. I think, Internet must to have another laws, because network area can be accessed from every country! Cases: ------ 1. Just a few weeks ago, CNET download site has removed our software (WMA Encoder Decoder) because of "DMCA violation"; more information is available there: http://www.x-filez.com/dmcacnet.htm 2. After complaint from Dolby Laboratories, AC3DEC module for NetBSD is no longer available. http://www.netbsd.org/Letters/20010803-dolby.html 3. Dolby Laboratories pursue our company to remove AC3 Decoder and Advanced Encode Decode Tools from our site (http://www.x-filez.com), ignoring the fact that all AC3 decoding algorithms (used in our software) have been developed solely by our company, without using or reverse-engineering Dolby software. In last case with Dolby Laboratories what I cannot understand at all: --------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Dolby Laboratories don't publish (on their sites) the requirement to license any AC3 decoding algorithm (even if it is different from their own). 2. Dolby Laboratories don't even try to contact developers (authors of "illegal" software) first -- instead, they contact all download/hosting sites asking them to remove all software whose description just mention their technologies. 3. Dolby Laboratories complaints even to sites and authors that are outside the U.S. So it seems that their representatives are not competent enough. 4. And the most important! Dolby Laboratories doesn't answer any requests about licensing their technology. I've sent ones to emails and faxes (listed in their complaints), but haven't got any reply. Can anybody explain me what is going on? It looks like the laws has been made BY huge corporations, and FOR corporarions, and moreover -- they want their laws to affect the whole Internet. Just to get as much money as possible (from the customers, of course), and shut down all small business (even the legal one) which makes at least some competition to them. -- With kind regards, Alexey Shtol, XFilez Inc. admin@x-filez.com xfilez@omskcity.com VVSPlayer WMA Tools official homepage: http://www.x-filez.com From chris.savage at crblaw.com Mon Aug 20 06:30:20 2001 From: chris.savage at crblaw.com (Chris Savage) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: free-sklyarov digest, Vol 1 #201 - 31 msg s Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: Josiah Draper [mailto:kreizykid@hotmail.com] >Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 3:29 AM >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: free-sklyarov digest, Vol 1 #201 - 31 msgs >Funny, I've learned more things about copyright from this list >than any of my high school teachers. Isn't a rich nation like >the us supposed to be teaching these basic concepts? The "basic concepts" are obscure and controversial, so it is hard to teach them. If you have enough free time on your hands, you might want to pick up a copy of "Digital Copyright" by Jessica Litman, a law professor. It will give you a good flavor of one side of the debate. Chris S. *************************************************************************** This electronic mail transmission may contain confidential or privileged information. If you believe that you have received the message in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. *************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010820/d61c4ed4/attachment.html From debug at centras.lt Mon Aug 20 06:43:51 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] reasons for restriction of competition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1641422860.20010820154351@centras.lt> >Funny, I've learned more things about copyright from this list >than any of my high school teachers. Isn't a rich nation like >the us supposed to be teaching these basic concepts? Curiously copyrights, licenses, certificates have one thing in common They restrict competition Can anybody give me reasons why competition should be restricted ? -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From chris.savage at crblaw.com Mon Aug 20 07:05:44 2001 From: chris.savage at crblaw.com (Chris Savage) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] reasons for restriction of competition Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: DeBug [mailto:debug@centras.lt] >Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:44 AM >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net >Subject: [free-sklyarov] reasons for restriction of competition > > >>Funny, I've learned more things about copyright from this list >>than any of my high school teachers. Isn't a rich nation like >>the us supposed to be teaching these basic concepts? > >Curiously copyrights, licenses, certificates have one thing in common >They restrict competition Can anybody give me reasons why competition >should be restricted ? The basic theory is this: (1) Most of the work involved in creating something copyrightable is the creativity/mental effort etc. Once it is embodied in a copyrightable form (on paper, on a diskette, whatever), making additional copies is really cheap. (This is not just true of writings, music & programs, BTW: consider what Intel has to do to get the first new chip out the door, versus the 100,000,000th one.) (2) If anybody could take a cheap copy of a work and, totally without restriction or payment to the creator, make as many additional cheap copies as the market will absorb, the people who actually did the creative work will be screwed. They will sell a few at some middling price, then others will copy and distribute the work for cheap. The return on the creative effort will be miniscule or even (likely, some would say) negative. (3) Therefore, unless we restrict copying, etc., there will be insufficient incentive for creative people to actually create and distribute their stuff. Hence the reference in the constitution to advancing "science and the useful arts." The restrictions on competition in copying/distribution are done with the conscious purpose of rewarding inventors (patents) and creators (copyright) with money, to keep them inventing/creating. This means that the point of copyright is to strike a balance: give the inventors/creators enough money to keep producing, but not so much that the law of diminishing returns kicks in, and they max out on production and just take more and more of our money. Note that the basic theory outlined above is not, fundamentally, the theory that copyright-centric companies have been promoting. Their meme is that an author/creator has some sort of natural right to control all uses and sales of his/her "creation," i.e., the abstract "intellectual property" that has been created. Under this meme, the true, right and natural state of affairs is that an author (or distributor) should be able to control fully (and, if so inclined, separately meter and charge for) all uses to which a work is put. It may be that technical limitations in the past have made that control squishy around the edges (this meme's "explanation" for fair use), but the great thing about digital technology is that DRM will allow authors/distributors to finally exert the control that they should have been able to assert all along. IMHO the conflict between "copyright as a deal between society and creators" and "copyright as a legal means to enforce creators'/distributors' 'inherent' rights to control" is at the bottom of the DMCA/DRM/etc. imbroglio in which we are currently engaged. Chris S. *************************************************************************** This electronic mail transmission may contain confidential or privileged information. If you believe that you have received the message in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. *************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010820/fb92423e/attachment.htm From keith at indierecords.com Mon Aug 20 07:27:36 2001 From: keith at indierecords.com (Keith Handy) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Yet another FBI-involved incident References: Message-ID: <3B811E58.5134@indierecords.com> > Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 18:36:54 -0700 > From: Vadim Kogan > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net, free-sklyarov-sfba@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu > Subject: [free-sklyarov] Yet another FBI-involved incident > > http://www.linuxfreak.org/post.php/08/17/2001/134.html > > IMHO the article is perfectly clear. Read it for yourself. > > Vadim. It's almost too surreal to be real. The only conclusion I can come to is that Wally Burchett has achieved a new level of technophobia. He doesn't know how them newfangled websites work, but he has heard from somewhere that if someone else points out your security weakness, you can just have them arrested. Stupid, stupid, STUPID. -Keith From debug at centras.lt Mon Aug 20 07:39:50 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] reasons for restriction of competition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1464781636.20010820163950@centras.lt> >>Curiously copyrights, licenses, certificates have one thing in common >>They restrict competition Can anybody give me reasons why competition >>should be restricted ? CS> The basic theory is this: CS> (1) Most of the work involved in creating something copyrightable is the CS> creativity/mental effort etc. Once it is embodied in a copyrightable form CS> (on paper, on a diskette, whatever), making additional copies is really CS> cheap. (This is not just true of writings, music & programs, BTW: consider CS> what Intel has to do to get the first new chip out the door, versus the CS> 100,000,000th one.) You talk about what mass production together with efficiency can bring What would happen if all people could have access to mass production lines. Just imagine automobile factory at your home CS> (2) If anybody could take a cheap copy of a work and, totally without CS> restriction or payment to the creator, make as many additional cheap copies CS> as the market will absorb, the people who actually did the creative work CS> will be screwed. I must disagree. This is not necessarily true. If new product creators were paid IN ADVANCE this would not happen. CS> (3) Therefore, unless we restrict copying, etc., there will be insufficient CS> incentive for creative people to actually create and distribute their stuff. This is a BIG LIE. creative people (as i define this term) do create not because they want to make money but because they LIKE creating. So if someone create to get money i do not call him creative person. CS> Hence the reference in the constitution to advancing "science and the useful CS> arts." The restrictions on competition in copying/distribution are done CS> with the conscious purpose of rewarding inventors (patents) and creators CS> (copyright) with money, to keep them inventing/creating. Since people are lazy by their nature ( usually try to get as much money as they can for as little effort as possible) there is a need to force them to create goods. Now this can be done by introducing copyrights and other forms of restrictions. This way seemed to work good. But i can predict it will not perform good in the future as more and more easy it becomes to resist restrictions. What must be done is to make people creative so i think a special copyright-tax collected from public and distributed among authors would be more appropriate than copyrights. -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From chris.savage at crblaw.com Mon Aug 20 08:17:07 2001 From: chris.savage at crblaw.com (Chris Savage) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] reasons for restriction of competition Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: DeBug [mailto:debug@centras.lt] >Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 10:40 AM >To: Chris Savage >Subject: Re[2]: [free-sklyarov] reasons for restriction of competition > > >>>Curiously copyrights, licenses, certificates have one thing in common >>>They restrict competition Can anybody give me reasons why competition >>>should be restricted ? > >CS> The basic theory is this: > >>(1) Most of the work involved in creating something >>copyrightable is the creativity/mental effort etc. Once >>it is embodied in a copyrightable form (on paper, on a >>diskette, whatever), making additional copies is really >>cheap. (This is not just true of writings, music & >>programs, BTW: consider what Intel has to do to get the >>first new chip out the door, versus the 100,000,000th one.) >You talk about what mass production together with efficiency >can bring. What would happen if all people could have access >to mass production lines. Just imagine automobile factory at >your home. Good question. I don't know what would happen. (I'm thinking about Neal Stephenson's "The Diamond Age" here, with everyone having matter-rearranging machines at their fingertips.) I think, though, that it takes a fairly rare skill set to produce copyrightable stuff -- writings, songs, software -- that will actually have mass market appeal. So if everyone had the digital equivalent of a factory at home (which you can, pretty much, for 1000 bucks of hardware/software, more or less), that would make it easier for people to make copies. It would not necessarily increase the supply of stuff people want to copy. >>(2) If anybody could take a cheap copy of a work and, >>totally without restriction or payment to the creator, >>make as many additional cheap copies as the market will >>absorb, the people who actually did the creative work >>will be screwed. >I must disagree. This is not necessarily true. If new >product creators were paid IN ADVANCE this would not happen. Fair enough, but you are just moving the problem back one level. Who will pay in advance? Either (a) a bunch of people willing to pay a small amount to be a patron or (b) a distributor willing to take the business risk that the stuff to be produced will be able to earn enough money to be worth the advance payment (including the risk involved in advancing the capital). Established authors and even people with good new stuff do indeed get "advances" on their works. But those advances are made in the context of traditional copyright rules under which the entity making the advances figures it can make its money back on (copyrighted) sales. The garage band next door may indeed be the next Nirvana or Lynard Skynard or N'Sync (pick your taste), but then again they may just be the garage band next door. I'm not saying that no new and improved ways of finding talented folks and getting their work out to the world could ever be developed. I am saying that there's no free lunch. For anyone to be paid in advance means money has to come from somewhere, which raises the question of "where?" >>(3) Therefore, unless we restrict copying, etc., there >>will be insufficient incentive for creative people to >>actually create and distribute their stuff. >This is a BIG LIE. creative people (as i define this term) do create >not because they want to make money but because they LIKE creating. >So if someone create to get money i do not call him creative person. Well, I may be wrong, but I don't think I'm "lying" by stating the normal rationale for copyright. I'm not even saying that I necessarily believe it to be true in all cases; I'm just saying what the "conventional wisdom" is on this topic. What you are saying, though, is something that I actually think is true, although I'd state it another way. Some people create stuff because, as you say, they like doing it and are driven to do so by their own urges. They will create whether they get paid or not. Others have talent but will only deploy it for money. But then there's the whole middle ground of cases -- someone who can write beautiful novels or wonderful songs, but has bills to pay, kids to feed, etc., and if they have to spend 8 hours a day plus commute time flipping burgers or writing legal briefs or teaching school to pay the bills, and then another 8 hours getting the kids fed, the shopping done, etc., then the novels, songs, etc. just won't be forthcoming. Saying people need money in exchange for their creations is not the same as saying that they are motivated to create by money or that they are the creative equivalent of whores. It's just saying that creative people have bills to pay like anyone else. >>Hence the reference in the constitution to advancing >>"science and the useful arts." The restrictions on >>competition in copying/distribution are done >>with the conscious purpose of rewarding inventors >>(patents) and creators (copyright) with money, to keep >>them inventing/creating. >Since people are lazy by their nature ( usually try to get as >much money as they can for as little effort as possible) Certainly true for me! Seriously, I could spend 8-10 hours/day planting plants for a landscape company for minimum wage, or I could spend the same 8-10 hours per day doing legal work for much more per hour. I suppose that reflects a certain kind of laziness, but as vices go I think it tends more towards greed. >there is a need to force them to create goods. Where did "force" come from here? People can produce or not. It's up to them. If we want them to produce more than they otherwise would, I suppose we could round them up and chain them to a desk, but why not just say we'll pay you if you do a good job (defined as creating stuff other people want to look at or use)? >Now this can be done by introducing copyrights >and other forms of restrictions. This way seemed to work good. >But i can predict it will not perform good in the future as more >and more easy it becomes to resist restrictions. What must be done >is to make people creative so i think a special copyright-tax >collected from public and distributed among authors would be >more appropriate than copyrights. This is a variant of what is known as a "compulsory license." I suppose we could tax blank CDs and CD players, etc., to generate this fund. But then how do we decide who gets how much? I'm not raising that as an objection but as a serious question. Do you pay the would-be garage band the same as you pay Smash Mouth? The same as you pay N'Sync? Chris S. *************************************************************************** This electronic mail transmission may contain confidential or privileged information. If you believe that you have received the message in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. *************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010820/c3f9c91b/attachment.html From jeme at brelin.net Mon Aug 20 10:20:38 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] reasons for restriction of competition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Aug 2001, Chris Savage wrote: > The basic theory is this: [...statement of the fact that time and effort are required to produce new works of authorship omitted...] > (3) Therefore, unless we restrict copying, etc., there will be > insufficient incentive for creative people to actually create and > distribute their stuff. Right... just like that saying "patent is the mother of invention"... And the Four Greek Muses: Melete ("meditation"), Mneme ("memory"), Aoede ("song"), and Profitmotive ("copyright"). Oh, wait... that's not it at all! NECESSITY is the mother of invention... and the inspiration and drive to authorship come from within, not without. Work is done to fill a need... either in society or in the author. Inventors invent because they would like to use the new gadget or see it used. Authors compose because if they did not, their heads would explode. Inventors working for the profit motive give us things like Roly-Kit and the Pocket Fisherman. Authors working for profit motive give us things like "Hit Me, Baby, One More Time", "Pearl Harbor" and "Life's Little Instruction Book". > Hence the reference in the constitution to advancing "science and the > useful arts." The restrictions on competition in copying/distribution > are done with the conscious purpose of rewarding inventors (patents) > and creators (copyright) with money, to keep them inventing/creating. Doesn't it stand to reason that the artificial monopoly actually REMOVES the profit motive from the process because it is possible to profit from a single work and never invent or author again? Wouldn't I, as the patent holder to the most popular invention for performing a certain task, do everything in my power to PREVENT progress in that industry in order to keep my invention in common use? Wouldn't I, as the author of the most popular book, do everything I could to prevent other ideas from reaching the market so that my book would stay on the best-seller list? Isn't this monopoly actually a HINDERENCE to progress? > This means that the point of copyright is to strike a balance: give > the inventors/creators enough money to keep producing, but not so much > that the law of diminishing returns kicks in, and they max out on > production and just take more and more of our money. Again, this reasoning gives the public no reason to restrict its own rights with regard to non-commercial work. By your reasoning, why would the public give a copyright to an author who doesn't even TRY to profit financially? > Note that the basic theory outlined above is not, fundamentally, the > theory that copyright-centric companies have been promoting. No, but it's functionally equivalent. If they can convince people (as it looks like they've done) that authors and inventors would just stop in their tracks were there not a good chance at profit, then they can keep the game going indefinitely. Electronic distribution inherently removes publisher control. Copyright itself is meaningless in a world where copying is ubiquitous and necessary. You make a copy into memory when you read a file... you might even swap that chunk of memory to disk while you're task-switching. Or maybe you're running a RAID array and you've got two or three copies of everything in your system. The authority to make copies cannot be an exclusive one in this day and age... not if we're going to use modern information technology to distribute and store the works. > Their meme is that an author/creator has some sort of natural right to > control all uses and sales of his/her "creation," i.e., the abstract > "intellectual property" that has been created. Under this meme, the > true, right and natural state of affairs is that an author (or > distributor) should be able to control fully (and, if so inclined, > separately meter and charge for) all uses to which a work is put. It > may be that technical limitations in the past have made that control > squishy around the edges (this meme's "explanation" for fair use), but > the great thing about digital technology is that DRM will allow > authors/distributors to finally exert the control that they should > have been able to assert all along. This is definitely the tack their pitching. But the one you're pitching isn't much better... it denies any other motive beside profit and removes the public's interest in non-commercial work. > IMHO the conflict between "copyright as a deal between society and > creators" and "copyright as a legal means to enforce > creators'/distributors' 'inherent' rights to control" is at the bottom > of the DMCA/DRM/etc. imbroglio in which we are currently engaged. Honestly, I can't tell you which is worse; your scheme or theirs. At least the bullshit being pitched by the publishing industry seems to give a nod to non-commercial work as valuable and worthy of the same protections as commercial work. The publishing industry wants to restrict free speech out of hand by claiming "ownership" on ideas. You want to restrict free speech de-facto by illegitimizing anything that isn't done for money. Tough choice. How about we come up with something new? Or drop the whole idea of "limited monopoly" and let the public keep all their rights in the first place? J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From chris.savage at crblaw.com Mon Aug 20 11:38:30 2001 From: chris.savage at crblaw.com (Chris Savage) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] reasons for restriction of competition Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: Jeme A Brelin [mailto:jeme@brelin.net] >Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 1:21 PM >To: FREE SKLYAROV LIST (E-mail) >Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] reasons for restriction of competition > > >> (3) Therefore, unless we restrict copying, etc., there will be >> insufficient incentive for creative people to actually create and >> distribute their stuff. > >Right... just like that saying "patent is the mother of invention"... Sometimes yes, sometimes no. >And the Four Greek Muses: Melete ("meditation"), Mneme >("memory"), Aoede "song"), and Profitmotive ("copyright"). I like it. >Oh, wait... that's not it at all! Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. >NECESSITY is the mother of invention... and the inspiration >and drive to authorship come from within, not without. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. FWIW I just watched "Apollo 13" last night with my kids. There's a scene where the astronauts are going to die from CO2 poisoning unless a filter of shape X can be mated to a frame of shape Y by means of [a collection of stuff on the ship]. Our plucky ground-based engineers came up with a solution. The did it because they knew if they didn't, the astronauts would die. Is that motivation from "within" or without"? >Work is done to fill a need... either in society or in the author. >Inventors invent because they would like to use the new gadget >or see it used. Authors compose because if they did not, their >heads would explode. OK >Inventors working for the profit motive give us things like >Roly-Kit and the Pocket Fisherman. Authors working for >profit motive give us things like "Hit Me, Baby, One More >Time", "Pearl Harbor" and "Life's Little Instruction Book". I think you are unduly denigrating the profit motive. >>Hence the reference in the constitution to advancing "science and the >>useful arts." The restrictions on competition in >>copying/distribution are done with the conscious purpose of rewarding >>inventors (patents) and creators (copyright) with money, to keep them >>inventing/creating. > >Doesn't it stand to reason that the artificial monopoly >actually REMOVES the profit motive from the process because it >is possible to profit from a single work and never invent or author >again? It is possible that a particular inventor/author will get rich enough as to not give a darn whether he/she ever invents again. But if the vast majority of inventors/authors toil away in aspiration of that result, that does not seem to me to be a removal of the profit motive. >Wouldn't I, as the patent holder to the most popular invention for >performing a certain task, do everything in my power to >PREVENT progress in that industry in order to keep my invention in >common use? Wouldn't I, as the author of the most popular book, >do everything I could to prevent other ideas from reaching the >market so that my book would stay on the best-seller list? Isn't >this monopoly actually a HINDERENCE to progress? I spend most of my professional life in telecom regulatory space, where I worry daily about the evils of monopoly and how to restrain them. One of my personal concerns with the traditional formulation of the so-called copyright "bargain" of monopoly for more creation is that we know monopoly is rotten. We've known it at least since Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations" in 1776. So IMHO we need to do something more nuanced than grant naked "monopoly rights" to inventors and authors. Truth be told, I'm still pondering what that more nuanced something might logically be. >>This means that the point of copyright is to strike a balance: give >>the inventors/creators enough money to keep producing, but >>not so much that the law of diminishing returns kicks in, and they max out on >>production and just take more and more of our money. > >Again, this reasoning gives the public no reason to restrict its own >rights with regard to non-commercial work. I think you are on to something with this comment, but I will confess I don't fully follow it. Please explain. >By your reasoning, why would the public give a copyright to an >author who doesn't even TRY to profit financially? The short answer is, transaction costs. If society set out to perfectly screw authors, it would first identify the most obsessed and compulsive, who will invent anyway, and pay them some horrible little pittance so they will invent rather than work at Burger King. Then it would identify the kinda-sorta-maybes and pay them a little more, but only the ones who were pretty good. Then it would identify the talented whores who are really, really good but will only do it for money, and would pay them a lot. The problem is that it is impossible to do that kind of fine-grained analysis, so we don't. We treat all authors and all creations alike as far as copyright is concerned. (Not quite; music is different than books, etc., but you know what I mean.) >> Note that the basic theory outlined above is not, fundamentally, the >> theory that copyright-centric companies have been promoting. > >No, but it's functionally equivalent. Not, it's profoundly different. Both are capitalist and profit-oriented. But one justifies horribly intrusive DRM stuff, as well as the DMCA provisions that put Dmitry in jail, and the other does not. >If they can convince people (as it looks like they've done) >that authors and inventors would just stop in their tracks >were there not a good chance at profit, then they can keep >the game going indefinitely. The issue is not that everyone would stop or everyone would go. The issue is, what happens at the margins. I will confess to focusing my thinking on things that might arguably be accomplishable in the real world, as opposed to what the ideal arrangements would be. That is both a limitation and a strength, obvious in both aspects. Focusing on the ideal instead is also both, again in obvious ways. >Electronic distribution inherently removes publisher control. Yes, I think that's right. >Copyright itself is meaningless in a world where copying is >ubiquitous and necessary. I think that's wrong. It depends on metering. >You make a copy into memory when you read a file... you >might even swap that chunk of memory to disk while you're >task-switching. Or maybe you're running a RAID array and >you've got two or three copies of everything in your >system. The authority to make copies cannot be an >exclusive one in this day and age... not if we're going >to use modern information technology to distribute and >store the works. I agree with that. As noted above, I'm trying to figure out a more nuanced view than "monopoly" or "free-for-all." You may tell me that there is no sensible middle ground, and you may be right. But I'm not there at the moment. >>Their meme is that an author/creator has some sort of >>natural right to control all uses and sales of his/her >>"creation," i.e., the abstract "intellectual property" >>that has been created. Under this meme, the >>true, right and natural state of affairs is that an author (or >>distributor) should be able to control fully (and, if so inclined, >>separately meter and charge for) all uses to which a work is put. It >>may be that technical limitations in the past have made that control >>squishy around the edges (this meme's "explanation" for fair >>use), but the great thing about digital technology is that DRM >>will allow authors/distributors to finally exert the control that >>they should have been able to assert all along. > >This is definitely the tack their pitching. But the one >you're pitching isn't much better... it denies any other motive >beside profit and removes the public's interest in non-commercial >work. I don't mean to do either thing. I certainly don't subjectively do them. There are certainly motives other than profit, and there's lots of stuff that is non-commercial. But the profit motive exists and lots of commercial stuff exists, and any regime we set up has to deal with them. >>IMHO the conflict between "copyright as a deal between society and >>creators" and "copyright as a legal means to enforce >>creators'/distributors' 'inherent' rights to control" is at >>the bottom of the DMCA/DRM/etc. imbroglio in which we are currently >>engaged. > >Honestly, I can't tell you which is worse; your scheme or theirs. Maybe both are equally bad. Bear in mind that I am a Washington DC lawyer, basically a policy wonk doing telecom/Internet regulatory policy. That no doubt warps my worldview in ways I can barely perceive. >At least the bullshit being pitched by the publishing industry seems to >give a nod to non-commercial work as valuable and worthy of the same >protections as commercial work. Well, that's the power of their meme. So you have Jack Valenti and Carey Sherman waxing eloquent on behalf of the natural rights of the poor struggling artists and the inherent creative good of people everywhere. I'm sorry if my bullshit detector goes off at full volume in that context, but it does. That, if nothing else, has led me to critically examine not merely the romantic appeal of the "natural rights of authors" theory, but also the logic it has in the real world of the studios and the publishing houses and RIAA. Guess where full respect for such "rights" gets you: the DMCA and worse. >The publishing industry wants to restrict free speech out of hand by >claiming "ownership" on ideas. > >You want to restrict free speech de-facto by illegitimizing >anything that isn't done for money. Not at all. I don't actually think that what you suggest follows from the (in my view) more limited view of copyright rights -- the bargain -- but I will think about it. That conclusion certainly was not my intention. >Tough choice. How about we come up with something new? Or >drop the whole idea of "limited monopoly" and let the public >keep all their rights in the first place? Maybe. Your suggestion contains the empirical assertion that creative folks would produce enough good stuff we care about without government intervention to create profit opportunities at all. Maybe you're right. I'll ponder this a bit and see what I think... Chris S. *************************************************************************** This electronic mail transmission may contain confidential or privileged information. If you believe that you have received the message in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. *************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010820/47e61875/attachment.htm From debug at centras.lt Mon Aug 20 09:03:51 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] reasons for restriction of competition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <669823362.20010820180351@centras.lt> 1) >>You talk about what mass production together with efficiency >>can bring. What would happen if all people could have access >>to mass production lines. Just imagine automobile factory at >>your home. CS> Good question. I don't know what would happen. All people would move from producing goods to creating and inventing new ones. 2) >>If new product creators were paid IN ADVANCE this would not happen. CS> Fair enough, but you are just moving the problem back one level. Who will CS> pay in advance? Government should force people. Yeah, instead of trying to enforce copyrights on people government should collect a tax for advancing "useful arts" etc. >>>(3) Therefore, unless we restrict copying, etc., there >>>will be insufficient incentive for creative people to >>>actually create and distribute their stuff. CS> Well, I may be wrong, but I don't think I'm "lying" by stating the normal CS> rationale for copyright. Your rationale for copyright is right and i do agree with it. I do agree with the rationale but i do not agree with copyright Copyright is not a right way to advance "useful arts" etc. It maybe working (and it really works) under certain conditions but in general it will fail unless conditions are artificially kept the same. Sklyarov case is a good example. 3) CS> Some people create stuff because, as you CS> say, they like doing it and are driven to do so by their own urges. They CS> will create whether they get paid or not. Others have talent but will only CS> deploy it for money. But then there's the whole middle ground of cases -- CS> someone who can write beautiful novels or wonderful songs, but has bills to CS> pay, kids to feed, etc., and ... CS> then the novels, songs, etc. just won't be forthcoming. That only means public does not have enough interest in those novels or that the person in question is more usefull for public in other fields than in novel or song writing. Yeah it's a pity that the time is a limited resource. But the time is limited for all people - by restricting me from accessing certain copyrighted work copyrights slow me down in my own work. 4) >>Since people are lazy by their nature ( usually try to get as >>much money as they can for as little effort as possible) CS> I suppose that CS> reflects a certain kind of laziness, but as vices go I think it tends more CS> towards greed. >>there is a need to force them to create goods. CS> Where did "force" come from here? People can produce or not. It's up to CS> them. This is what we started from. Copyrights are for forcing people to create "useful arts" etc. (sorry for my bad english - forcing is not a right word here , i meant stimulating) So i do certainly agree with you- not forcing but stimulating 5) Stimulating >>can be done by introducing copyrights >>and other forms of restrictions. This way seemed to work good. >>But i can predict it will not perform good in the future as more >>and more easy it becomes to resist restrictions. What must be done >>is to make people creative so i think a special copyright-tax >>collected from public and distributed among authors would be >>more appropriate than copyrights. CS> This is a variant of what is known as a "compulsory license." I would call it compulsory tax for progress. Country need progress - public must pay for it. CS> I suppose we could tax blank CDs and CD players, etc., to generate this fund. But then CS> how do we decide who gets how much? I'm not raising that as an objection CS> but as a serious question. Do you pay the would-be garage band the same as CS> you pay Smash Mouth? The same as you pay N'Sync? My answer is as follows: Government sais people they must pay for creating new activities, new businesses, new art works etc. In other words people must invest. If you do not invest - you pay for it. It is up for you to decide where you are going to invest or spend, but if you keep saving money - government immediatly takes the money away from you. Don't you think people would invest into Smash Mouth or even garage bands if they new their money will be spent in any way -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From tom at lemuria.org Mon Aug 20 13:10:27 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] another take on copyright Message-ID: <20010820221027.A15391@lemuria.org> On Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 02:38:30PM -0400, Chris Savage wrote: > >Copyright itself is meaningless in a world where copying is > >ubiquitous and necessary. > > I think that's wrong. It depends on metering. and he fell into his own trap - only considering the profit motive. as I posted a few days ago, copyright also covers non-profit aspects (at least over here) such as the right to be correctly credited or limited control over the work so as to protect its integrity. I don't think easy copying does much to change that. I'm rather inclined to say: on the contrary. now that copying is so much easier, I'm more than ever concerned that I'll be correctly credited for my work. the thing wrong with current copyright is that it has actually evolved backwards and became a close resemblance of the very first incarnation of copyright law - a publishers law where authors are given little more than an afterthought. but technology has moved into the opposite direction - authors do not NEED publishers anymore. they can publish themselves. > I agree with that. As noted above, I'm trying to figure out a more nuanced > view than "monopoly" or "free-for-all." You may tell me that there is no > sensible middle ground, and you may be right. But I'm not there at the > moment. a first step might be to come clean that we are perfectly happy with the OTHER provisions of copyright - that we all agree an author has a definite and unquestioned right to be credited - and I don't think anyone is really bothered by extending THAT from 28 to 70 years or beyond. our concerns are mostly with the DISTRIBUTION aspect of copyright. not even the publishing one (i.e. "the author decides if, when, where and how his work is published). we just think that since great and easy distribution tools are available, it doesn't make much sense to restrict that which is only a click of a button away by force of an artificial monopoly law. there is an economical problem, namely that up to now, the DISTRIBUTION was used as the vehicle to ultimately pay the author (and pay the distributor many times more). but nothing in copyright law nor in the laws of physics says that that's how it's gotta be. not that I have an easy solution, but I think it's time to break open some concepts. so, in short, our concern is the DISTRIBUTION aspect of copyright. we do not believe that distribution can be reasonably controlled anymore (after the initial publication), and we are seeing that attempting to do so will lead to disaster. which leaves only the original publication as a "secure" point where an author can ask for money. one could, for example, run via preorders. "if at least X people preorder the book for $Y, then and only then will it be published". nah, that won't work. but maybe someone will think up a variation of the theme that does work. the point of this pointless rant is that it might help us to make very clear that we are not enemies of copyright, but of SPECIFIC ASPECTS of it, and for SPECIFIC REASONS (abuse and police-state-methods). we believe the copyright deal has to be reformulated, adopted to advances in technology. instead of forcing society into conformance with an outdated law, we want to bring the law up to date with real life. if we can write that up in a concise statement, I think it'll sound a lot more interesting and less threatening than "those anti-copyright communists". -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From chris.savage at crblaw.com Mon Aug 20 13:25:33 2001 From: chris.savage at crblaw.com (Chris Savage) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] reasons for restriction of competition Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: DeBug [mailto:debug@centras.lt] >Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 12:04 PM >To: Chris Savage >Subject: Re[4]: [free-sklyarov] reasons for restriction of competition > >>>You talk about what mass production together with efficiency >>>can bring. What would happen if all people could have access >>>to mass production lines. Just imagine automobile factory at >>>your home. >>Good question. I don't know what would happen. >All people would move from producing goods to creating and >inventing new ones. No, they wouldn't. Creating is hard, and hard to get paid for. Not everyone likes it and not everyone is good at it. >2) >>>If new product creators were paid IN ADVANCE this would not happen. >>Fair enough, but you are just moving the problem back one >>evel. Who will pay in advance? >Government should force people. Yeah, instead of trying to >enforce copyrights on people government should collect a tax for >advancing "useful arts" etc. I've lived in Washington, D.C. too long, I suppose, but my immediate reaction is that government would screw that up. How would the government know which folks to suppor and which folks to blow off? >>>(3) Therefore, unless we restrict copying, etc., there >>>will be insufficient incentive for creative people to >>>actually create and distribute their stuff. >>Well, I may be wrong, but I don't think I'm "lying" by >>stating the normal rationale for copyright. >Your rationale for copyright is right and i do agree with it. >I do agree with the rationale but i do not agree with copyright >Copyright is not a right way to advance "useful arts" etc. OK. What's the alternative? One possibility is "none," i.e., the whole thing is a mistake from the beginning and we don't need it at all. But if not that, what? >It maybe working (and it really works) under certain conditions but >in general it will fail unless conditions are artificially kept the >same. Sklyarov case is a good example. I disagree with you here. I think the Sklyarov case reflects the DMCA, which is the result of pro-copyright interests getting too aggressive in their demands, both in getting the law passed and now in pushing for its enforcement. Copyright is supposed to be a balance. The DMCA upsets that balance. >>>there is a need to force them to create goods. > >>Where did "force" come from here? People can produce or >>not. It's up to them. >This is what we started from. Copyrights are for forcing people >to create "useful arts" etc. (sorry for my bad english - forcing >is not a right word here , i meant stimulating) >So i do certainly agree with you- not forcing but stimulating OK, sorry I did't get right away that english was not your best language. You were mostly good enough that I didn't make add any correction factor... >Government sais people they must pay for creating new activities, new >businesses, new art works etc. In other words people must invest. >If you do not invest - you pay for it. It is up for you to decide >where you are going to invest or spend, but if you >keep saving money - government immediatly takes the money away >from you. > >Don't you think people would invest into Smash Mouth or even >garage bands if they new their money will be spent in any way I understsand the sentiment, but I have a hard time figuring out how to make it work in practice. Chris S. *************************************************************************** This electronic mail transmission may contain confidential or privileged information. If you believe that you have received the message in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. *************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010820/816ceece/attachment.html From jeme at brelin.net Mon Aug 20 14:58:38 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] reasons for restriction of competition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: To Chris in particular: I appreciate your thoughtful comments. I especially appreciate that you make your arguments in a complimentary (and complementary) style without totally dismissing what I have to say in the style of the usual email flame-war. I was hoping to bring to light a big gap in the profit-only argument for copyright and I think you're seeing there might at least be a crack there, if not the crevasse I see. On Mon, 20 Aug 2001, Chris Savage wrote: > >NECESSITY is the mother of invention... and the inspiration > >and drive to authorship come from within, not without. > > Sometimes yes, sometimes no. FWIW I just watched "Apollo 13" last > night with my kids. There's a scene where the astronauts are going to > die from CO2 poisoning unless a filter of shape X can be mated to a > frame of shape Y by means of [a collection of stuff on the ship]. > Our plucky ground-based engineers came up with a solution. The did it > because they knew if they didn't, the astronauts would die. Is that > motivation from "within" or without"? That's invention... and NECESSITY is sometimes within and sometimes without. Necessity is a stronger motivator than patent... or at least a "better" motivator in that it breeds more useful, broadly applicable inventions that meet the actual needs of the population. Patent encourages the creation of a market instead of the filling of a niche. Authorship, however, is a need from within. A need to share what you have inside with the world. Let's not confuse authorship and inventing... that's like confusing patent and copyright and inventing some broad and meaningless class like "intellectual property" or something equally ludicrous that nobody will accept... oh, wait. > >Inventors working for the profit motive give us things like > >Roly-Kit and the Pocket Fisherman. Authors working for > >profit motive give us things like "Hit Me, Baby, One More > >Time", "Pearl Harbor" and "Life's Little Instruction Book". > > I think you are unduly denigrating the profit motive. Well, I'm trying to point out that the profit motive ALONE doesn't inspire truly useful or interesting work. The useful and meaningful things get created with or without the profit motive. Without the profit motive, the only thing we lose is the schlock. If the profit motive were so legitimate and powerful, we wouldn't have the phrase "I only did it for the money"... the "only" would be an unnecessary qualifier. We wouldn't have the concept of "selling out". Does any worthwhile author say "I did it so that I could make some money"? No, that's always the excuse... it's the reason given for doing something WITHOUT merit. > It is possible that a particular inventor/author will get rich enough > as to not give a darn whether he/she ever invents again. But if the > vast majority of inventors/authors toil away in aspiration of that > result, that does not seem to me to be a removal of the profit motive. Mostly that's because the authors and inventors sell their monopolies to giant oligopolies which profit indefinitely and do what they can to prevent new inventions (or, at least, inventions that they don't control) in the same field from coming forward. > I spend most of my professional life in telecom regulatory space, > where I worry daily about the evils of monopoly and how to restrain > them. One of my personal concerns with the traditional formulation of > the so-called copyright "bargain" of monopoly for more creation is > that we know monopoly is rotten. We've known it at least since Adam > Smith's "Wealth of Nations" in 1776. So IMHO we need to do something > more nuanced than grant naked "monopoly rights" to inventors and > authors. Truth be told, I'm still pondering what that more nuanced > something might logically be. Personally, I've advocated different "spheres" of public interest. That is to say, separate regulation of private, communal, public, and commercial pursuits. Laws designed to prevent unfair trade, for example, wouldn't have any effect on private, non-commercial interactions. Copyright would mean something different in each sphere. In the commercial, it would basically mean that the total use of the work in that sphere is under the direct discretion of the copyright holder (hopefully we'd limit that to authors as well). In the public and communal spheres, copyright would mean a limit on public, non-commercial performance of a work. This would mean libraries could function because each "performance" was still private, though the work is communally or publically owned, but, say, non-commercial street performance or open-house movie viewing could be restricted in some limited way by the author (or, worst case, copyright holder). In the private sphere, however, I can't imagine a reason to restrict copyright. Even an attribution requirement is overly restrictive in the private sphere. If I make new songs from clips of old ones and share that work with my friends, no damage is done to either the integrity of the original work or the author's profit potential. However, once the work is made public or even communally available (available to the members of a community... a limited kind of public), there may be issues. I've gotten no feedback on this. Aside from the implausibility that our government would adopt separate standards for separate, predefined spheres of interaction, what do people think? > >>This means that the point of copyright is to strike a balance: give > >>the inventors/creators enough money to keep producing, but > >>not so much that the law of diminishing returns kicks in, and they max > >>out on production and just take more and more of our money. > > > >Again, this reasoning gives the public no reason to restrict its own > >rights with regard to non-commercial work. > > I think you are on to something with this comment, but I will confess I > don't fully follow it. Please explain. I mean to say that if the balance is between the profit interests of the author (the need to invoke artificial scarcity to increase value) and the growth of the public domain (the need to increase the amount of information available to the people), then no balance need be struck in the case where an author has no profit interest. If I write a work specifically FOR the public domain, does the public interest get served by reserving some limited exclusive rights to me, the author? I would argue yes. The public interest is served by letting the author have some limited control over where and how a work is used in the public and commercial spheres (which exist whether they're legally recognized or not). The only reason to control the private use of a work is to protect profits. But the public and commercial use of a work can change the meaning and even the content of the work itself. The integrity of the work can be damaged by improper use (to the author's eye). If I, for example, create a flyer that contains my manifesto for life and existence and I put it on my website and hand out flyers and do everything I can to freely distribute my work of authorship, does Chevron have the right to excerpt that work in their advertisements? Does Random House have the right to reprint the pamphlet en toto and sell it on the shelves of Borders for $9.95 without my consent? Hell, does CBS have the right to read it during their news hour? Does the Independent Media Center have the right to reprint it on their news site? And what if they change the work? What if they keep it intact, but put Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.'s name on the bottom? I did not create the work for profit. I have no monetary interest in the work whatsoever. Why would the public grant me limited, exclusive rights to that work of my authorship? The answer is that the public benefits from the preservation of my original idea intact. Posterity will learn my name, as the author of this work, and analysis of my life can lead to insight into the work. The work itself will remain as I intended it (the failure to register copyrights with a central authority like the Library of Congress does more damage to this ability than any other copyright change) because nobody else had the right to present an unauthorized alteration to the public. This, to me, is the central benefit of copyright: preservation of the work for posterity in the author's intended form. Each individual expression is unique and may not ever be expressed again. If there is not a method to ensure the protection of that expression, only the most popular expressions will be preserved in any age. I question, however, whether this benefit is really worth the trouble. I often think that a simple right of attribution for a limited time would be enough. > >By your reasoning, why would the public give a copyright to an > >author who doesn't even TRY to profit financially? > > The short answer is, transaction costs. If society set out to > perfectly screw authors, it would first identify the most obsessed and > compulsive, who will invent anyway, and pay them some horrible little > pittance so they will invent rather than work at Burger King. Then it > would identify the kinda-sorta-maybes and pay them a little more, but > only the ones who were pretty good. Then it would identify the > talented whores who are really, really good but will only do it for > money, and would pay them a lot. This is how the labor sector is handled already. There are gardeners who do it for pleasure in their yards or community centers. There are gardeners who are paid low wages to work on public parks and other facilities with low operating costs. And there are highly paid gardeners who work only for big money (and, as a result, work in places of excess and affluence like estates, castles, and golf courses). > The problem is that it is impossible to do that kind of fine-grained > analysis, so we don't. Think about cooks, sportsmen, carpenters, and doctors. They all break down roughly this way. In a world without copyright, authors that have produced great works may be paid by scholarship societies or local communities of patronage to continue to author. Some authors may choose to toil in obscurity (as many surely do today). Surely there are authors today, even in our copyright granting society, who cannot find the time to lay down their unique expressions of ideas due to the strains and rigors of survival. As I say over and over, the most valuable work is the work unwritten. And people will PAY for an unwritten work, just as I am paid for unwritten software. I am paid to write software because my company NEEDS software, not because my company SELLS software. I write software that we USE... and because we are not in the software business, the software I write (or to which I contribute, more often) is also shared with the community at large. > >> Note that the basic theory outlined above is not, fundamentally, the > >> theory that copyright-centric companies have been promoting. > >No, but it's functionally equivalent. > > Not, it's profoundly different. Both are capitalist and > profit-oriented. But one justifies horribly intrusive DRM stuff, as > well as the DMCA provisions that put Dmitry in jail, and the other > does not. They're functionally equivalent in their restriction of freedom. DRMs and restriction of personal freedom are just as inherent in the idea that copyrights exist for authorial profit as the idea that control of distribution of a work is a "natural right". There are three distinct transactions involved in expression: creation, distribution, comprehension. Copyright completely ignores creation time by only acting on existing works of authorship. That is to say, you've got to write it before you can copyright it. I can't imagine any creation time restriction that would result in net benefit to the public. Today, the expression industry has focussed on profitting from payment at distribution time. By controlling distribution, publishers were able to extract a fee for each copy distributed to the public. In an age of electronic distribution (particularly across the internet), control of distribution beyond the initial is not practical (that is to say, you can control the FIRST distribution, but subsequent distribution is out of your hands). That leaves comprehension time. TPMs are an attempt to exert control at comprehension time. After all, it's perfectly safe (and, in fact, desirable) to let the world distribute a work freely and at will (and at no cost to the authors or their agents), as long as actually ACCESSING the work in a comprehensible form is controlled. So anyone can make a copy, but you have to buy a key to view the work on a particular device... and then pay extra for printing or access for the blind or what have you. > The issue is not that everyone would stop or everyone would go. The > issue is, what happens at the margins. The margins are ambiguous in every case... that's what makes them margins. > >Electronic distribution inherently removes publisher control. > Yes, I think that's right. So, if we want to keep copyrights, we have to make distribution a moral or practical issue for every person. The moral issue will be a tough sell because there are people (like me) who believe they have an OBLIGATION to make sure non-personal, generally useful information is available to anyone that wants it. So give me a PRACTICAL reason not to share information I have with someone who needs it. > >Copyright itself is meaningless in a world where copying is > >ubiquitous and necessary. > > I think that's wrong. It depends on metering. Not quite sure what you mean by "metering". > I agree with that. As noted above, I'm trying to figure out a more > nuanced view than "monopoly" or "free-for-all." You may tell me that > there is no sensible middle ground, and you may be right. But I'm not > there at the moment. I really believe that my "spheres of interaction" distinction would be sensible and in the middle ground. > >This is definitely the tack their pitching. But the one > >you're pitching isn't much better... it denies any other motive > >beside profit and removes the public's interest in non-commercial > >work. > > I don't mean to do either thing. I certainly don't subjectively do > them. There are certainly motives other than profit, and there's lots > of stuff that is non-commercial. But the profit motive exists and > lots of commercial stuff exists, and any regime we set up has to deal > with them. I agree that the profit motive exists. But you have yet to show me why you think we grant copyright to non-commercial works of authorship. If the purpose of copyright is protection of profit, why would we bother spending public resources on protecting not-for-profit works? > Maybe both are equally bad. Bear in mind that I am a Washington DC > lawyer, basically a policy wonk doing telecom/Internet regulatory > policy. That no doubt warps my worldview in ways I can barely > perceive. We've been coaxed, as a society, to believe that what's good for business is good for the public... and, in a bizarre reversal, the public should act in the best interest of business. I don't blame anyone for being knee deep in that. It's all around us every day and nearly all of our information and reasoning is coming from big business. > Well, that's the power of their meme. So you have Jack Valenti and > Carey Sherman waxing eloquent on behalf of the natural rights of the > poor struggling artists and the inherent creative good of people > everywhere. I'm sorry if my bullshit detector goes off at full volume > in that context, but it does. That, if nothing else, has led me to > critically examine not merely the romantic appeal of the "natural > rights of authors" theory, but also the logic it has in the real world > of the studios and the publishing houses and RIAA. Guess where full > respect for such "rights" gets you: the DMCA and worse. I totally agree. The idea that copyright is NOT granted by the public and is somehow an inherent Natural right like life, liberty, etc. leads directly to law that restricts the life, liberty, etc. of the majority in favor of a minority. I agree that the restriction of the majority's rights is by choice in order to grant a new, unnatural right for some limited time, for some other benefit... a public benefit. > Maybe. Your suggestion contains the empirical assertion that creative > folks would produce enough good stuff we care about without government > intervention to create profit opportunities at all. Maybe you're > right. I'll ponder this a bit and see what I think... Well, I point you to Shakespeare, Euclid, Van Gogh, and myriad authors and inventors of the past who did their work for reasons other than artificial monopoly. Even today, I point you to independent filmmakers who put themselves (and their families) into debt to create a thing of beauty that would otherwise not exist... and people like my father, who invented and built, in his day, numerous tools and jigs to improve his crafts and shared those inventions with the world (and hopefully, in some small way, improved it). J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From rms at privacyfoundation.org Mon Aug 20 16:04:09 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Yet another FBI-involved incident In-Reply-To: <20010819183654.M32686@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <000001c129cc$70155d00$7effaccf@rms> Vadim, >>> http://www.linuxfreak.org/post.php/08/17/2001/134.html >>> IMHO the article is perfectly clear. Read it for yourself. I think that anyone who is interested in this story, should carefully read over the 4 pages of comments posted after the Linux Freak story. Apparently some of the players involved in the situation are providing information beyond what the story itself had to say. My impression after reading the comments as well as some earlier news reports is what happened is a bit more complicated than the Linux Freak story leads one to believe. This news story in particular is very interesting: http://www.bkw.org/pdf/stigler-news-hack.pdf (Please ignore the dumb definition of "hacking"). I have always felt that it can be very risky to do too much research on security holes on other people's Web servers without their permission. It is particularly problematic if the servers belong to a direct competitor which apparently is the case in this story. The reason that the FBI and US attorney's office got involved is that they are alleging that a few hundred files where downloaded by Brian West from a competitor's Web server. Some of this files included password files and Perl scripts owned by the competitor. Richard M. Smith CTO, Privacy Foundation http://www.privacyfoundation.org From robertl1 at home.com Mon Aug 20 16:26:52 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] reasons for restriction of competition Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010820162505.0202fc60@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> At 04:39 PM 8/20/01 +0200, you wrote: >>>Curiously copyrights, licenses, certificates have one thing in common >>>They restrict competition Can anybody give me reasons why competition >>>should be restricted ? > >CS> The basic theory is this: > >CS> (1) Most of the work involved in creating something copyrightable is the >CS> creativity/mental effort etc. Once it is embodied in a copyrightable form >CS> (on paper, on a diskette, whatever), making additional copies is really >CS> cheap. (This is not just true of writings, music & programs, BTW: consider >CS> what Intel has to do to get the first new chip out the door, versus the >CS> 100,000,000th one.) >You talk about what mass production together with efficiency can bring >What would happen if all people could have access >to mass production lines. Just imagine automobile factory at your home Well people do have the mass production equipment for publishing in their homes (I speak only of affluent nations, an important caveat), which is I suppose your point. >CS> (2) If anybody could take a cheap copy of a work and, totally without >CS> restriction or payment to the creator, make as many additional cheap copies >CS> as the market will absorb, the people who actually did the creative work >CS> will be screwed. >I must disagree. This is not necessarily true. >If new product creators were paid IN ADVANCE this would not happen. How would you propose to pay creators in advance? How, indeed, do you propose to identify creators? >CS> (3) Therefore, unless we restrict copying, etc., there will be insufficient >CS> incentive for creative people to actually create and distribute their stuff. >This is a BIG LIE. creative people (as i define this term) do create >not because they want to make money but because they LIKE creating. >So if someone create to get money i do not call him creative person. While there is a powerful element of truth to this it is also the case that creative people eat and have families who do as well. Once cannot ignore the possibility that earning a living while being creative is better than subsidizing ones creativity by working at some other non creative activity. Or are we to revert to the old world where only wealthy gentelmen could afford to be scientists? One definition of an artist is a "Man who would sell his grandmother to buy paint". Passion is not the same as ethics and many a "creative" person is as uethical in pursuit of their goals as a corporate chieftan. The goals are however different. >CS> Hence the reference in the constitution to advancing "science and the useful >CS> arts." The restrictions on competition in copying/distribution are done >CS> with the conscious purpose of rewarding inventors (patents) and creators >CS> (copyright) with money, to keep them inventing/creating. >Since people are lazy by their nature ( usually try to get as much money >as they can for as little effort as possible) there is a need to force >them to create goods. This seems contrary to your previous statement about the motivations of creative people. >Now this can be done by introducing copyrights >and other forms of restrictions. This way seemed to work good. >But i can predict it will not perform good in the future as more >and more easy it becomes to resist restrictions. You are right that the old system is broken. It will need be replaced by a new system. This new system will almost certainly require new law and new technology (DRM?), and perhaps truly new ideas. >What must be done >is to make people creative I am not convinced we need to make people creative. People are what they are. I am convinced we need to find better ways to compensate creative people. By "better" I mean those which do a better job of balancing the needs of society for creation and those of the creators for a living and other rewards. Draconian measures such as those embedded in the DMCA and which have been used to put Dmitry in jail are the opposite of what is needed. We don't need laws that make powerful third parties, whose only value added is distribution (increasingly worth very little, hence their violent reaction to a loss of their business) safe from competition. Certainly not at cost to freedom of giving those third parties the right to use the police powers of the state to impose their absurd economic order. That way lies corporate facism. We need no more of this. >so i think a special copyright-tax >collected from public and distributed among authors would be >more appropriate than copyrights. This is an interesting idea, but I have a major problem with the idea. Who decides who gets the money? What is a creative act? The arts bureacracies in the USA are not a pretty thing to watch up close. What was it that is said about making sausage? I believe, but would immediately defer to those more knowledgable, that the Dutch among other have tried tax support with visual artists and that the results was a lot of oil going on canvas and very little art. It is I suppose good for the paint business :) Thanks, though, for putting some creative thought into this puzzle. As much as we rever our fore fathers, and as good a start as they have provided us in analyzing this problem, theirs may not be the last word on the subject. Bob La Quey From bobds at blorch.org Mon Aug 20 19:30:27 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] reasons for restriction of competition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01082019302700.08818@bitworks> On Monday 20 August 2001 11:38, you wrote: > Sometimes yes, sometimes no. FWIW I just watched "Apollo 13" last night > with my kids. There's a scene where the astronauts are going to die from > CO2 poisoning unless a filter of shape X can be mated to a frame of shape Y > by means of [a collection of stuff on the ship]. Our plucky ground-based > engineers came up with a solution. The did it because they knew if they > didn't, the astronauts would die. Is that motivation from "within" or > without"? A more telling question is, did the engineers get or expect to get paid extra for their solution, or get a big juicy patent out of it? ---------------------------------------- Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"; name="Attachment: 1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: ---------------------------------------- -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From bobds at blorch.org Mon Aug 20 19:51:14 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] reasons for restriction of competition In-Reply-To: <669823362.20010820180351@centras.lt> References: <669823362.20010820180351@centras.lt> Message-ID: <01082019511401.08818@bitworks> On Monday 20 August 2001 09:03, you wrote: > >>You talk about what mass production together with efficiency > >>can bring. What would happen if all people could have access > >>to mass production lines. Just imagine automobile factory at > >>your home. > > CS> Good question. I don't know what would happen. > All people would move from producing goods to creating and > inventing new ones. All people? Really? I already have the ability to produce lots of things that I don't actually produce myself--because I'd rather pay somebody else to produce them while I spend my time and effort on something that interests me more. As long as there are lazy bastards like me wanting to buy somebody else's production, there will be producers to cater to us (and as long as there's excess production to be had, we lazy bastards will be there to absorb it). I don't see why that should change, even if everyone COULD make their own everything. I don't WANT to create and invent yet another method for baking bread. I just want a sandwich. If somebody else will produce the bread for me, I'll buy it--despite the fact that I'm actually a pretty good baker. > CS> This is a variant of what is known as a "compulsory license." > I would call it compulsory tax for progress. Country need progress - > public must pay for it. But then the public is arbitrarily denied access to the progress (such as when technological obstacles efectively prevent copyrighted works from EVER passing into the public domain). Public deserves a refund! -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From bobds at blorch.org Mon Aug 20 20:14:13 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] reasons for restriction of competition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01082020141302.08818@bitworks> On Monday 20 August 2001 14:58, you wrote: > I've gotten no feedback on this. Aside from the implausibility that our > government would adopt separate standards for separate, predefined spheres > of interaction, what do people think? Since you ask: I think that in the bardic tradition, people paid for two things: novelty, and performance. If I came to your town with news (or songs and jokes) that you hadn't already heard, you'd feed me dinner in exchange for the novelty. If I came to your town singing songs you'd known all your life, but I could sing them better than you could, you'd feed me again for the performance. However, if I told you a story you'd never heard, and then the next day you told it to one of your buddies, nobody in the Good Old Days would have even imagined for a minute that you owed me anything like a royalty or license fee for each repetition. We even still do it today--how many times has Jay Leno told a joke on the Tonight Show, and the next morning everybody's telling it to each other around the water cooler at the office? Is anybody compensating Leno? Or is his only "compensation" indirect, in the form of a reputation--that if we listen to his show ("performance") again tomorrow, he might tell another good joke we also haven't heard before ("novelty")? THAT's why he gets to live in the big fancy house. > Well, I point you to Shakespeare, Euclid, Van Gogh, and myriad authors and > inventors of the past who did their work for reasons other than artificial > monopoly. Indeed. It's even true for pre-Classical authors, like the long-forgotten souls who bequeathed us the Epic of Gilgamesh (which, coincidentally, begins with the line, "It is an old story, but one that may still be told"). It sure is, and it sure may. Let's see who's still reciting Baywatch scripts a couple of thousand years from today. -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Mon Aug 20 20:42:45 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Good Phrase In-Reply-To: <200108200523.AAA000.98@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Aug 2001, Will Janoschka wrote: > Upon ocasion I have heard "I am not a market" I wish I could give > credit. I like that one too. The other day I was on a plane, and guy next to me was reading some computer industry newsrag with an article on MS Passport. Will consumers go for it, the headline asked? So I read over his shoulder [it was hard not to: ATA is the White Castle of airlines. We were all jammed so close together that I knew the guy's shirt was machine wash warm, tumble dry low.] Anyway, so they have a diagram showing the "consumer" going to a "portal" because he wants to "view premium content." I remember thinking just how utterly unsavory such a phrase would sound to any normal person. I have no desire to "view premium content." What a detached, buzzwordy, old-new-economy, let's-dialog-about- utilizing-synergy-I'll-ping-you-later kind of phrase. Sounds about as enjoyable as eating a big bowl of oat bran. I am not a market. I have no desire to "view premium content." -S [Okay, okay, I did pay money to subscribe to Salon.com Premium, but because they need money, not so I could "view premium content."] From tom at lemuria.org Mon Aug 20 22:40:16 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] reasons for restriction of competition In-Reply-To: <01082020141302.08818@bitworks>; from bobds@blorch.org on Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 08:14:13PM -0700 References: <01082020141302.08818@bitworks> Message-ID: <20010821074016.G15572@lemuria.org> On Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 08:14:13PM -0700, Bob Smart wrote: > It sure is, and it sure may. Let's see who's still reciting Baywatch > scripts a couple of thousand years from today. that strikes me as an interesting point. is anyone aware of any studies (please give me links and/or citations) that shows the amount of "junk" literature in, say, ancient greek or even europe before copyright? mostly, I'd like to know whether junk is a natural human event or a byproduct of copyright. several respectable authors claim that for patents, junk inventions ARE a side-effect of them. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From admin at seattle-chat.com Mon Aug 20 23:36:26 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Phoenix, AZ Protests Message-ID: Anyone know when the next protest is in Phoenix, I'm from the Seattle Crew, and I wouldn't mind dropping in on it, since I'm currently in Arizona till the end of the week. thanks Charlie From rabbi at quickie.net Tue Aug 21 00:04:39 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Next Action -- Pretrial Hearing in San Jose Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160 Thursday, August 23 at 9:30 AM PDT 280 South 1st Street, San Jose, CA This Thursday is Dmitry Sklyarov's pretrial hearing. Our goal is to fill the courtroom with Dmitry's supporters. Those who wish to be present for the hearing should be respectful of the court and dress appropriately. Anyone who doesn't fit in the courtroom, or does not wish to be present during the entire hearing, will be able to distribute flyers outside. Please show up at least one half hour in advance. Thank you, Len Sassaman -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: OpenPGP Encrypted Email Preferred. iQIVAwUBO4IIEkoKgUld5ID8AQPt+w/9ExJGJpDBvkx9kpAB+247rTRi2eDdiEkV dca0ieVAB5TDddrdZEixIvN4H1p0FgTjmeORGVjTIN+7qj8pS5Zkmz3fRxhTlIGM fnOl2AVAB+H7ZW/xVjyKCNfhXraDsqSdqkRMKIVR1B3+8JsM3OVWFOTGMNxMKizi DqqffOyFImmWNnwD5bavdiO+m/tofquRE2JV1CpPc+/AAAS4fyMefL6OezzeEXY1 v+McdOPHaF7v41adRPBMbUlPwTR/Xdf2xb/uikL4jcosamdvo/80RJ3DKK6GsCVS 9z7QutPO7FDrOsPR1IpM39kraof7kkaUxHxL71O2lAUt2pwdykAh82fo9ITxkQP5 IDq/8GfWgdSlY1I0QsF9d94rUrcLI20LZA+atvUtzbrsuVE/Osp2CBEZkTQKmGny lQgw0yCCxj8sup4evRqCT4FxuBnpUJNQc8iP3cNxbQiK2QZ7B2yavOwjhiXMDhxU ywYz0j/yQnarzVVVGAbBgxwG4c3MqhTQa8V8SHjMeOhYacv4iDFUwzRdpd6F+suh IVnsivvWWGGU7IxWoDVDNPN7TK2QyFDDwL/8qofdyOWFrOODSyA9UeF3doAGDKbF Ff3IPDqAdqPuLjtguM1BXma7Bq09eVKgxotSz+QcsfwvrVVXXCKz6lx+qDdPg7eS 6u0NhvJyov8= =tYtE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From wiljan at pobox.com Tue Aug 21 00:06:02 2001 From: wiljan at pobox.com (Will Janoschka) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What happens Thursday? Message-ID: <200108210730.CAA001.27@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> Does someone on the list have a good idea of what may happen in court Thursday. I hope they no-bill Dmitry. Then we can all go bitch about the DMCA elsewhere. Can the DoJ change the charges significantly from the arrest warrant? To what? Is a summary judgement possible, since there is a question of the law being constitutional? If Dmitry is actually charged with, (For profit importing providing, or otherwise trafficking in a technology, product, service device, component, or part thereof, that is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively control access to a work protected under title 17), has anyone seen evidence that AEBPR circumvents blah blah? I am sure that no one here would actually try to find out what Elcomsoft's program can do, but some might know of a really unsavory type that does know. From what I have been able to get from my "pony tail and tennis shoes don't match" contact is that it uses keys provided by the seller or by E-book reader to decrypt the e-book back to a pdf file. This pdf file is the same as that used to make the e-book via Adobe's E-Book server. Under 17 USC 1201 (a2) the program has all the permissions the copyright owner can give to decrypt the e-book. Under 17 USC 1201 (b) things get a bit funky 'cause the wording seems to limit only the copyright owner not the buyer of the e-book. (2) As used in this subsection (A) to ''circumvent protection afforded by a technological measure'' means avoiding, bypassing, removing, deactivating, or otherwise impairing a technological measure; and (B) a technological measure ''effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title'' if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, prevents, restricts, or otherwise limits the exercise of a right of a copyright owner under this title. It is a stretch to view this as "...limits the exercise, by others, of a right of a copyright owner...". What right of the copyright owner is being referenced here? enough already -will-:@) From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Tue Aug 21 04:58:43 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fwd: European DMCA Info Message-ID: <3B824CF3.ED670B58@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> (Forwarded from PATENTS list) -------- Original Message -------- Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:42:14 +0200 From: Bernard Lang ?? european DMCA well it has been published ... and is pretty bad english http://europa.eu.int/comm/internal_market/en/intprop/news/copyright.htm http://europa.eu.int/comm/internal_market/en/intprop/news/com29en.pdf directive: http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/dat/2001/l_167/l_16720010622en00100019.pdf french http://europa.eu.int/comm/internal_market/fr/intprop/news/copyright.htm http://europa.eu.int/comm/internal_market/en/intprop/news/com29fr.pdf directive: http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/fr/dat/2001/l_167/l_16720010622fr00100019.pdf ( also http://freescape.attila-php.net/DOCUS/Direuropeenne.pdf ( or http://pauillac.inria.fr/~lang/patents/DirPLASI_010522.pdf other documents: http://europa.eu.int/comm/internal_market/en/intprop/news/index.htm Recent Intellectual Property Legislative Developments in the European Union: Copyright and Related Rights (Fordham April 2001) http://europa.eu.int/comm/internal_market/en/intprop/news/fordh2001.pdf MANAGEMENT AND LEGITIMATE USE OF INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY International conference (Strasbourg 9-11 July 2000) - Proceedings english: http://europa.eu.int/comm/internal_market/en/intprop/news/strasbourg2_en.pdf French: http://europa.eu.int/comm/internal_market/en/intprop/news/strasbourg2_fr.pdf but I have not yet had time to analyze. I consider the patent issue more essential, more urgent, because less reversible. One problem I noticed is that people in charge in government do not even know what is going on. They believe it is a simple technical matter that they can leave to assistants, who often do not report nor accurately assess the importance of the issue (and it is clearly deliberate) -- Non aux Brevets Logiciels - No to Software Patents SIGNEZ http://petition.eurolinux.org/ SIGN Bernard.Lang@inria.fr ,_ /\o \o/ Tel +33 1 3963 5644 http://pauillac.inria.fr/~lang/ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Fax +33 1 3963 5469 INRIA / B.P. 105 / 78153 Le Chesnay CEDEX / France Je n'exprime que mon opinion - I express only my opinion CAGED BEHIND WINDOWS or FREE WITH LINUX _______________________________________________ Patents maillist - Patents@liberte.aful.org http://liberte.aful.org/mailman/listinfo/patents From larsg at eurorights.org Tue Aug 21 05:25:44 2001 From: larsg at eurorights.org (Lars Gaarden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fwd: European DMCA Info References: <3B824CF3.ED670B58@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3B825348.2000508@eurorights.org> Seth Johnson wrote: > (Forwarded from PATENTS list) > > -------- Original Message -------- > Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:42:14 +0200 > From: Bernard Lang > > > ?? european DMCA > > well it has been published ... and is pretty bad The final official May 22 version is here: http://europa.eu.int/smartapi/cgi/sga_doc?smartapi!celexplus!prod!CELEXnumdoc&numdoc=32001L0029&lg=EN -- LarsG From debug at centras.lt Tue Aug 21 05:50:26 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] reasons for restriction of competition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1824587334.20010821145026@centras.lt> CS> I've lived in Washington, D.C. too long, I suppose, but my immediate CS> reaction is that government would screw that up. How would the government CS> know which folks to suppor and which folks to blow off? To my mind the whole distribution system lacks one very important thing When a person pays a tax he or she must have a right to decide how it will be used. Government can only set minimal level of compulsory taxes but taxes like income tax should be ruled by those who pay. I would gladly pay income tax if i could rule where it will be spent. Government should allow people to take a part in budget planning (including science and useful arts financing) CS> I understsand the sentiment, but I have a hard time figuring out how to make CS> it work in practice. The fact we do not know how to implement it does not justify the copyright bargain. What i can think of is a copyright-tax bulletins where each individual could indicate whom he wants his money to be paid -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From mark at blorch.org Tue Aug 21 06:40:10 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: free-sklyarov digest, Vol 1 #201 - 31 msgs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0108210640100A.06839@bilbo.blorch.org> On Monday 20 August 2001 00:29, Josiah Draper wrote: > Funny, I've learned more things about copyright from this list than any of > my high school teachers. Isn't a rich nation like the us supposed to be > teaching these basic concepts? The key words being "supposed to." I learned more from my own reading than teachers ever taught me. And while it has always been the student's burden to learn, the teachers certainly don't go out of their way to help. And I went to school in the '70s. I imagine it's far worse now. Mark From bobds at blorch.org Tue Aug 21 07:17:25 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] reasons for restriction of competition In-Reply-To: <20010821074016.G15572@lemuria.org> References: <01082020141302.08818@bitworks> <20010821074016.G15572@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <01082107172501.10717@bitworks> On Monday 20 August 2001 22:40, you wrote: > On Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 08:14:13PM -0700, Bob Smart wrote: > > It sure is, and it sure may. Let's see who's still reciting Baywatch > > scripts a couple of thousand years from today. > > that strikes me as an interesting point. is anyone aware of any studies > (please give me links and/or citations) that shows the amount of "junk" > literature in, say, ancient greek or even europe before copyright? > > mostly, I'd like to know whether junk is a natural human event or a > byproduct of copyright. several respectable authors claim that for > patents, junk inventions ARE a side-effect of them. I don't know of any studies about it, although I would also like to be made aware of them if they exist. My guess would be that the total "junk" fraction would be pretty low, indeed, especially before the advent of things like printing...because it takes significant effort to propagate and preserve literature (or music, or art) and why would anybody bother for "junk"? Quite a bit may have been produced, due to nothing more than Sturgeon's Law, but I doubt any of it survived very long, even in its own day. -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From cycmn at nyct.net Tue Aug 21 08:43:59 2001 From: cycmn at nyct.net (J.E. Cripps) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF Alert on the FTAA and IP Controls - Fax In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010821114127.I1952-100000@bsd1.nyct.net> >http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010816_eff_ftaa_alert.en.html The leaflet from NYC Monday rally states that the deadline is Aug 22. See the EFF site for explanation and suggestions about letter content. The U.S.T.R. general fax number is 1-202-395-3911 One for Gloria Blue is said to be 1-202-395-5141. From f00bar at earthlink.net Tue Aug 21 09:24:21 2001 From: f00bar at earthlink.net (J. Shirley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Phoenix, AZ Protests References: Message-ID: <3B828B35.4030902@earthlink.net> I just moved to Portland, OR -- any organized events planned or being planned that haven't been posted? Charles Eakins wrote: > Anyone know when the next protest is in Phoenix, I'm from the >Seattle Crew, and I wouldn't mind dropping in on it, since I'm currently >in Arizona till the end of the week. > >thanks > >Charlie > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From bill at leflaw.net Tue Aug 21 14:16:35 2001 From: bill at leflaw.net (Bill Evans) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slightly OT-Needed-Essays or editorials on DMCA Message-ID: <3B82CFB3.B4B8FC62@leflaw.net> this will be a one time post, please direct any questions to me at the above e-mail address. We all know or have become aware of the problems with the DMCA. At boycott-riaa.com we have started a contest lookingfor editorials or essays on the DMCA and why it needs to be repealed or at least modified. The winner will receive $250 to be used anyway you like. the rules for the contest are at http://www.boycott-riaa.com/win250.html There are no popups, banners, or other things to irritate or harrass you. no forms to fill out with your life history or shoesize, and we won't even ask for your e-mail until you send your article. Bill Evans bill@leflaw.net webmaster@boycott-riaa.com From sisgeek at yahoo.com Tue Aug 21 15:16:19 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Transition Strategy Message-ID: <20010821221619.81339.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> do we have a transition plan to transparently shift our focus should the prosecutor elect not to proceed? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From dmarti at zgp.org Tue Aug 21 15:45:47 2001 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] LOCAL San Francisco, August 30 Message-ID: <20010821154547.A30378@zgp.org> (This is during LinuxWorld Conference and Expo, so I hope to see some out-of-town people there. Richard Stallman and Bruce Perens are likely attendees.) Free Dmitry Free Dmitry MARCH ON THE FEDERAL BUILDING Free Dmitry Free Dmitry Thursday, August 30, 2001, 11:30 AM Meet at Moscone Center, San Francisco, California, USA Please join history's largest and most successful fair use movement in a San Francisco march to free Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov. At the request of Adobe Systems of San Jose, Dmitry was arrested by the FBI in Las Vegas on July 16th. Following previous demonstrations by people like you, Adobe dropped their support of Dmitry's prosecution, and the US government has released him on $50,000 bail. Now it's time to turn out the largest Free Dmitry rally ever, to demand that the government drop the charges for good. "The U.S. government for the first time is prosecuting a programmer for building a tool that may be used for many purposes, including those that legitimate purchasers need in order to exercise their fair use rights," said Electronic Frontier Foundation attorney Robin Gross. Other demonstrations will be held worldwide. For information on Dmitri's case and other "Free Dmitry" events, please visit http://freesklyarov.org/ MEET OUTSIDE MOSCONE NORTH: Moscone North is located on Howard St., between 3rd and 4th. Meet on the PUBLIC SIDEWALK outside Moscone North at 11:30 AM. From Moscone North we will march the approximately nine blocks to the Federal Building. FROM CALTRAIN: Get off at the San Francisco station and walk five blocks north on 4th St. to Howard, and make a right on Howard. Or take MUNI bus 15, 30, or 45 to 3rd and Howard. FROM BART: Get off at Powell St. and exit the station at 4th and Market. Walk two blocks south on 4th to Howard Street and turn left on Howard. DRIVING/PARKING: Please see the Moscone directions page at: http://www.moscone.com/direct.htm WHAT TO BRING Please bring a sign or a U.S. or Russian flag, and a cell phone if you have one. Keep signs simple (4 words is ideal) so that they are easy to read for people passing by. "Free Dmitry" is a good example. LOCAL EVENT CONTACT Don Marti 650-962-9601 or 650-743-8035 (cell) MORE INFORMATION: See the web site at http://freesklyarov.org/ -- Don Marti What do we want? Free Dmitry! When do we want it? Now! http://zgp.org/~dmarti Free Dmitry: http://eff.org/ dmarti@zgp.org Free the web, burn all GIFs: http://burnallgifs.org/ From kmself at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 21 16:39:14 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Register: Penguin embraces ebook Message-ID: <20010821163914.A29151@navel.introspect> That's Penguin, the publishing house, not Tux the GNU/Linux mascot. http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/21166.html Penguin embraces ebooks By Kieren McCarthy Posted: 21/08/2001 at 12:51 GMT Penguin has jumped into the ebook format with both feet. From September it is making a large range of titles from its back catalogue available over the Internet. They includes classics from Jane Austen, Charles Dickens etc. as well as guide books, reference books and business titles (even Bill Gates' Business @ the speed of thought). The famous publishing house has racked its brains and come up with the new name ePenguin for the electronic books, but its decision to embrace the format - and, so it says, launch books purely as ebooks - is a great step forward in making electronic books a more mainstream concept. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010821/a0abf76d/attachment.pgp From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Aug 21 18:00:05 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Arraignment postponed Message-ID: <20010821180005.A21944@zork.net> The arraignment is being postponed. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Aug 21 18:24:37 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Register: Penguin embraces ebook In-Reply-To: <20010821163914.A29151@navel.introspect> References: <20010821163914.A29151@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <87pu9oopii.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "KMS" == Karsten M Self writes: KMS> Penguin has jumped into the ebook format with both KMS> feet. From September it is making a large range of titles KMS> from its back catalogue available over the Internet. They KMS> includes classics from Jane Austen, Charles Dickens etc. [...] http://promo.net/cgi-promo/pg/cat.cgi?&label=ID&ftpsite=ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/gutenberg/&alpha=1412 (Plus about 6 other books) http://promo.net/cgi-promo/pg/cat.cgi?&label=ID&ftpsite=ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/gutenberg/&alpha=749 (Plus about 10 other books) What do you think the restricted-use versions released by Penguin will look like? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From kmself at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 21 18:30:26 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Arraignment postponed In-Reply-To: <20010821180005.A21944@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 06:00:05PM -0700 References: <20010821180005.A21944@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010821183026.I29151@navel.introspect> on Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 06:00:05PM -0700, Seth David Schoen (schoen@loyalty.org) wrote: > The arraignment is being postponed. Does this mean Thursday's activities are off? Note that there are two, both in San Jose. So we focus on just the one? -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010821/e0c5187f/attachment.pgp From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Tue Aug 21 18:38:03 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Arraignment postponed References: <20010821180005.A21944@zork.net> Message-ID: <3B830CFB.C0479091@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Uhh . . . Evidently there's not much else to tell. How was the postponement made known? That's the Thursday pretrial thing, right? Seth Johnson Seth David Schoen wrote: > > The arraignment is being postponed. From kmself at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 21 18:43:24 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Arraignment postponed In-Reply-To: <20010821183026.I29151@navel.introspect>; from kmself@ix.netcom.com on Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 06:30:26PM -0700 References: <20010821180005.A21944@zork.net> <20010821183026.I29151@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <20010821184324.N29151@navel.introspect> Skipped content of type multipart/mixed-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010821/f0ca83b2/attachment.pgp From owlswan at eff.org Tue Aug 21 18:50:48 2001 From: owlswan at eff.org (Henry Schwan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Arraignment postponed In-Reply-To: <20010821184324.N29151@navel.introspect> Message-ID: there shouldbe moreinformation tomorrow as we know more. On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Karsten M. Self wrote: > on Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 06:30:26PM -0700, Karsten M. Self (kmself@ix.netcom.com) wrote: > > on Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 06:00:05PM -0700, Seth David Schoen > > (schoen@loyalty.org) wrote: > > > The arraignment is being postponed. > > ...that being Sklyarov's. Bunner continues. > > -- Regards, Henry Schwan Paralegal Electronic Frontier Foundation (415)436-9333 x114 (415)436-9993 (fax) owlswan@eff.org From jono at microshaft.org Tue Aug 21 19:11:25 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Register: Penguin embraces ebook In-Reply-To: <87pu9oopii.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 06:24:37PM -0700 References: <20010821163914.A29151@navel.introspect> <87pu9oopii.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010821191125.A89581@networkcommand.com> Can someone comment on the PG license? It is very interesting that VolumeOne (the people behind the Alice in Wonderland restrictions, http://www.pigdogs.org/art/adobe.html) could actually restrict that book given this: DISTRIBUTION UNDER "PROJECT GUTENBERG-tm" You may distribute copies of this etext electronically, or by disk, book or any other medium if you either delete this "Small Print!" and all other references to Project Gutenberg, or: [1] Only give exact copies of it. Among other things, this requires that you do not remove, alter or modify the etext or this "small print!" statement. You may however, if you wish, distribute this etext in machine readable binary, compressed, mark-up, or proprietary form, including any form resulting from conversion by word pro- cessing or hypertext software, but only so long as *EITHER*: [*] The etext, when displayed, is clearly readable, and does *not* contain characters other than those intended by the author of the work, although tilde (~), asterisk (*) and underline (_) characters may be used to convey punctuation intended by the author, and additional characters may be used to indicate hypertext links; OR [*] The etext may be readily converted by the reader at no expense into plain ASCII, EBCDIC or equivalent form by the program that displays the etext (as is the case, for instance, with most word processors); OR [*] You provide, or agree to also provide on request at no additional cost, fee or expense, a copy of the etext in its original plain ASCII form (or in EBCDIC or other equivalent proprietary form). Does the first clause allow for conversion to eBook format and allow restrictions by means of the "OR"? It also seems to say if you remove all references to PG you can restrict the hell out of the book... On 21-Aug-2001, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "KMS" == Karsten M Self writes: > > KMS> Penguin has jumped into the ebook format with both > KMS> feet. From September it is making a large range of titles > KMS> from its back catalogue available over the Internet. They > KMS> includes classics from Jane Austen, Charles Dickens etc. [...] > > http://promo.net/cgi-promo/pg/cat.cgi?&label=ID&ftpsite=ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/gutenberg/&alpha=1412 > > (Plus about 6 other books) > > http://promo.net/cgi-promo/pg/cat.cgi?&label=ID&ftpsite=ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/gutenberg/&alpha=749 > > (Plus about 10 other books) > > What do you think the restricted-use versions released by Penguin will > look like? > > ~Klepht > > -- > klepht@eleutheria.org > http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Tue Aug 21 20:47:22 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Arraignment postponed In-Reply-To: <3B830CFB.C0479091@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Message-ID: Stanton has just informed me that the information was relayed to the EFF by Dmitry's defense team. While the change is not yet visible in the court calendar at http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/Calendar.nsf/572d47d88520f842882566a2007f2b59/cd0a5c0f181b8b5988256a01005e0eeb?OpenDocument , it should appear there shortly. On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Seth Johnson wrote: > > Uhh . . . > > Evidently there's not much else to tell. How was the postponement made > known? That's the Thursday pretrial thing, right? > > Seth Johnson > > Seth David Schoen wrote: > > > > The arraignment is being postponed. > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- -alexf From wiljan at pobox.com Tue Aug 21 22:47:25 2001 From: wiljan at pobox.com (Will Janoschka) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Arraignment postponed Message-ID: <200108220457.XAA001.37@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> Can anyone tell if this is a judge thing, a thing on behalf of either party, or a yet unknown third party gumming up the works? "Only thing certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* Indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Tue Aug 21 22:05:26 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Arraignment postponed References: Message-ID: <3B833D96.4DD3EBDF@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Thanks, Alex. I'm naturally very curious why it was postponed, and whether by the court, the prosecution or the defense. We'll hear soon enough, anyway. Seth Johnson Alex Fabrikant wrote: > > Stanton has just informed me that the information was relayed to the EFF > by Dmitry's defense team. While the change is not yet visible in the court > calendar at > http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/Calendar.nsf/572d47d88520f842882566a2007f2b59/cd0a5c0f181b8b5988256a01005e0eeb?OpenDocument > > , it should appear there shortly. From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Tue Aug 21 22:13:03 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Arraignment postponed References: <200108220457.XAA001.37@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> Message-ID: <3B833F5F.5938CAF3@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Yeah. Gotta wonder what's up . . . . . . or else go to bed. Think I'll do that, for now. :-) Seth Johnson Will Janoschka wrote: > > Can anyone tell if this is a judge thing, a thing on behalf of > either party, or a yet unknown third party gumming up the works? From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Aug 21 22:13:46 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Arraignment postponed In-Reply-To: <20010821183026.I29151@navel.introspect> References: <20010821180005.A21944@zork.net> <20010821183026.I29151@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <20010821221346.C21944@zork.net> Karsten M. Self writes: > on Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 06:00:05PM -0700, Seth David Schoen (schoen@loyalty.org) wrote: > > The arraignment is being postponed. > > Does this mean Thursday's activities are off? Note that there are two, > both in San Jose. So we focus on just the one? The Bunner hearing is _on_, as are any Sklyarov activities other than going to the arraignment. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From kfoss at planetpdf.com Tue Aug 21 23:23:32 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Two new Sklyarov news items Message-ID: A couple items to help pass the time until further details on the pre-trial hearing postponement are announced: -- Now Showing: Dmitry Sklyarov's Las Vegas Gamble Only a small group of folks actually got to see Dmitry Sklyarov's now infamous presentation live at the DEF CON Nine conference in Las Vegas in mid-July. Videotaped copies of the ElcomSoft programmer's one-hour session on PDF-based eBook security -- and all other recent DEF CON sessions -- are now available for purchase. We offer a preview. http://www.planetpdf./mainpage.asp?webpageid=1573 --- ElcomSoft President to repeat controversial talk On the eve of the scheduled pre-trial hearing for Dmitry Sklyarov on August 23 -- one that now has been postponed pending further details -- the Black Hat Briefings conference is announcing that Alexander Katalov, ElcomSoft Ltd. President, will give an updated version of the now infamous "eBooks Security" talk in Amsterdam on November 22. Dmitry Sklyarov first gave the presentation at DEF CON Nine in Las Vegas on July 15; the next day he was arrested by the FBI. http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=210 rgds ~ Kurt ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network From crism at maden.org Wed Aug 22 00:20:11 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Register: Penguin embraces ebook In-Reply-To: <20010821191125.A89581@networkcommand.com> References: <87pu9oopii.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010821163914.A29151@navel.introspect> <87pu9oopii.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010822001730.00a93d00@mail.maden.org> At 19:11 21-08-2001, Jon O . wrote: >Can someone comment on the PG license? It is very interesting that >VolumeOne (the people behind the Alice in Wonderland restrictions, >http://www.pigdogs.org/art/adobe.html) >could actually restrict that book given this: Once again: Adobe sets the defaults for any privileges to "no" because those privileges might have been added to the Reader after the book was produced, and so the publisher couldn't have chosen to enable those privileges. The publisher must therefore explicitly choose to enable privileges they want to support. VolumeOne didn't do this for _Alice in Wonderland_. They fixed the problem when it came up. No, I don't like how Adobe handles licenses, but there are so many more real issues to deal with than this, which basically comes down to a poor wording choice and a goof-up for which the publisher has apologized, so let's stop harping on it. -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com Wed Aug 22 02:21:16 2001 From: huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com (Huaiyu Zhu) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Chris Savage gave a nice summary of the classical theory of copyright as a social contract of giving incentives to creators of "science and useful art". He also explained well the distinction between profit as a motivation for creative work and profit as a necessity to sustain a lifestyle of creative work. Tom pointed out that the main problem with this social contract is that it uses the distribution of copyrighted work as the focal point to collect rewards for authors. This creates a peculiar trade-off: society is trying to reward creators by restricting the use of his creation. Another problem is that the distributors get paid several times more than the authors. The DMCA shows that as technology advances, this mode of rewarding authors is becoming increasingly detrimental to the society - it not only requires the restriction of the distribution and usage of copyrighted work, but it also requires restriction of the creation and distribution of technologies that might thwart such restrictions. In other words, the cost of rewarding one creation soars from the restriction of its usage and distribution to the restriction of other creations. That is simply not a good bargain for society no matter what angle it is looked at. DeBug proposed several other ways that creative work could be rewarded. For example, government could collect tax to pay the authors for their creative work. Or government could force people pay certain amount towards their own chosen authors. Chris mentioned that the tax could be collected on copying media sales, like CDRW, for example. On the face of it, this seems unworkable, because it is hard to decide on the recipient of the money, and it is quite easy to imagine various kinds of fraud in such systems. However, both schemes already exist, and they work well in their respective domains. A large portion of academic work is supported in the first way, where government collects tax and doles them out through research funding. The distribution is controlled by a complex machinery of committees, peer reviews, citation counts, etc. It certainly over-achieved its goal of encouraging publication - a lot of junk is published as a side product simply because the authors want more citations. Many charitable organizations are funded in the second way. The government encourages (stimulates / forces) people to contribute by provide tax rebates for charitable contributions. The integrity of the system is maintained by rigorous auditing and certification of such organizations. Either incentive model removes the need to restrict the benefit of good work in order to reward those who did the work. The problem is that they both need quite a bit of bureaucratic overhead. Can authors of general art and entertainment be rewarded in similar ways? The answer is likely to be no in general. For one thing, peer review is generally reliable only for science because it is an ingredient of the merit system of science. Jeme Brelin discussed a related issue, namely that for-profit publication is likely to be of lower quality than works "from within". However, this does not affect our main question as long as a large number of authors will be positively influenced by financial rewards. So the question is: Is it possible to reward authors to an adequate amount without restricting the distribution and usage of his work? I don't know the answer. The current copyright laws have many flaws, but they seem to be good enough for their purpose. The evil bit is in laws like DMCA that break the intended balance in origianl copyright laws, by baning certain types of creative work in order to reward certain other types of creative work, rewarding a larging chunk to middlemen in between. Huaiyu Zhu From tom at lemuria.org Wed Aug 22 03:14:30 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: ; from huaiyu_zhu@yahoo.com on Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 02:21:16AM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010822121430.C23415@lemuria.org> On Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 02:21:16AM -0700, Huaiyu Zhu wrote: > On the face of it, this seems unworkable, because it is hard to decide > on the recipient of the money, and it is quite easy to imagine various > kinds of fraud in such systems. However, both schemes already exist, > and they work well in their respective domains. I disagree. the tax-like systems we have currently work pretty bad. they work, but not very well, and the worst part is that they, too, share the problem of overly rewarding the major labels (for music). for example, the distribution of the collected money in the german system (GEMA) is based on the charts. now everyone who's left his room this year knows that what is played in clubs, bars and even in shops is far from that which is in the charts. > So the question is: Is it possible to reward authors to an adequate > amount without restricting the distribution and usage of his work? I > don't know the answer. The current copyright laws have many flaws, but > they seem to be good enough for their purpose. The evil bit is in laws > like DMCA that break the intended balance in origianl copyright laws, by > baning certain types of creative work in order to reward certain other > types of creative work, rewarding a larging chunk to middlemen in > between. I have discussed this issue off list, and I'm willing to pour some time and even money into running what I call a "field test" - setting up a new system and opening it up to the general public (both artists and prospective customers). that is definitely off-topic, so I suggest anyone interested mail me in private and we'll carry on the discussion either via CC or if there's many of you, on a new mailing list. yes, this may well drive the music mafia out of business if it works. more specifically: it'll replace them with a better business model. we'll need some venture capital, but I believe it can even be profitable beyond putting food on the artists' tables. From kfoss at planetpdf.com Wed Aug 22 06:38:52 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FYI> Two new Sklyarov articles -- CORRECTED URL In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010822001730.00a93d00@mail.maden.org> References: <87pu9oopii.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010821163914.A29151@navel.introspect> <87pu9oopii.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <5.0.2.1.0.20010822001730.00a93d00@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: A couple items of note until further details on the one-week postponement of Dmitry's scheduled August 23 pre-trial hearing are announced: -- Now Showing: Dmitry Sklyarov's Las Vegas Gamble Only a small group of folks actually got to see Dmitry Sklyarov's now infamous presentation live at the DEF CON Nine conference in Las Vegas in mid-July. Videotaped copies of the ElcomSoft programmer's one-hour session on PDF-based eBook security -- and all other recent DEF CON sessions -- are now available for purchase. We offer a preview. http://www.planetpdf.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=1573 --- ElcomSoft President to repeat controversial talk On the eve of the scheduled pre-trial hearing for Dmitry Sklyarov on August 23 -- one that now has been postponed pending further details -- the Black Hat Briefings conference is announcing that Alexander Katalov, ElcomSoft Ltd. President, will give an updated version of the now infamous "eBooks Security" talk in Amsterdam on November 22. Dmitry Sklyarov first gave the presentation at DEF CON Nine in Las Vegas on July 15; the next day he was arrested by the FBI. http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=210 rgds ~ Kurt ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network From jeme at brelin.net Wed Aug 22 09:46:36 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: <20010822121430.C23415@lemuria.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Tom wrote: > I have discussed this issue off list, and I'm willing to pour some time > and even money into running what I call a "field test" - setting up a > new system and opening it up to the general public (both artists and > prospective customers). > > that is definitely off-topic, so I suggest anyone interested mail me in > private and we'll carry on the discussion either via CC or if there's > many of you, on a new mailing list. > > yes, this may well drive the music mafia out of business if it works. > more specifically: it'll replace them with a better business model. > we'll need some venture capital, but I believe it can even be > profitable beyond putting food on the artists' tables. Tom, I'm very interested in working this with you (depending, of course, on some of the philosophical details). I'd love to see a modern "society of patronage" that collected money and paid artists to create new work that is unencumbered by restrictive distribution law or license. I think the law is somewhat against us in the US, though. I fear we may have to resort to using copyright against itself, ala GPL, in order to prevent the work from being co-opted by restrictive licensing schemes. Perhaps this isn't necessary if we stick to the sort of work that generally remains in accessible form like the written word and music. Is this the sort of thing you were considering? J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From alex at 2600.COM Wed Aug 22 09:53:17 2001 From: alex at 2600.COM (Neon Samurai) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Infoworld Letter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Not sure if anyone saw it, but on page 10 of the printed version of this week's InfoWorld, they printed a letter I sent them criticizing the DMCA and commending one of their columnists' coverage of the Dmitry case. All the best, Alex http://www.VerizonEatsPoop.com From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Aug 22 09:57:45 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Jerry Pournelle on Dmitry Message-ID: <87vgjgm3qu.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> I dunno if this has already been posted, but Jerry Pournelle of Byte.com has a column about Dmitry up: http://www.byte.com/documents/s=857/byt20010816s0003/0820_pournelle.html ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From alex at 2600.COM Wed Aug 22 10:12:35 2001 From: alex at 2600.COM (Neon Samurai) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Infoworld Letter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The url to the letter is: http://iwsun4.infoworld.com/articles/op/xml/01/08/20/010820opletters.xml I would have included it before, but I thought it probably was not on their site. I was wrong. Best, Alex http://www.VerizonEatsPoop.com On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Neon Samurai wrote: > Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:53:17 -0400 (EDT) > From: Neon Samurai > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: [free-sklyarov] Infoworld Letter > > > Not sure if anyone saw it, but on page 10 of the printed version > of this week's InfoWorld, they printed a letter I sent them criticizing the DMCA > and commending one of their columnists' coverage of the Dmitry case. > > All the best, > > Alex > http://www.VerizonEatsPoop.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From ben at kalifornia.com Wed Aug 22 11:28:46 2001 From: ben at kalifornia.com (Ben Ford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] re: Brian West Message-ID: <3B83F9DE.7090306@kalifornia.com> This is the response I got from the newspaper in response to a query about the case. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: news Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:06:59 -0500 From: "Grover Ford" To: "Ben Ford" References: <3B836A33.4060102@kalifornia.com> the newspaper did not file charges against Mr. West...owners of the software that was tampered with and the FBI are pursuing this matter.This is the story that ran back in February 2000 Hacker says he broke into PDN&S site By John M. Corbitt, Managing Editor As the world focuses on damage to huge Internet companies by computer hackers, the story has been brought home with a vengeance at the Poteau Daily News & Sun. According to Federal court records in Muskogee, a search warrant was served Monday on CWIS Internet Services at 203 North Broadway in Stigler. In the documentation with the warrant, Special Agent Christopher Headrick of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, assigned to the Oklahoma City Division. He is investigating an alleged violation of federal law by unauthorized access to an Internet web page owned by the Poteau Daily News & Sun (PDN&S) that is housed by Cyberlink Rural Telecommunications, Inc. (CRTI). Headrick said in the affidavit attached to the warrant that he had acquired information from other FBI agents and witnesses. Cyberlink provided PDN&S with an Internet web page that the newspaper uses to post news stories and advertisements. Access to the site is limited to system administrators at CRTI and reporters at PDN&S by user identification and password. The affidavit explains that James W. McCoy Jr. wrote a program in Practical Extraction and Report language (Perl) software that allows reporters in the field to access the news service website and make updates remotely. "Many large news agencies have in house computer programmers or hire companies to write custom software to allow for remote update to their websites. CRTI anticipated marketing their Perl script program as an off-the-shelf software package that could be customized and sold to medium and small news agencies," he said. Headrick went on to explain that CRTI anticipated selling the software package for about $4,000 to $6,000 per copy. CRTI was testing the Perl script called E-Z Net News at PDN&S. According to the document, PDN&S Publisher Wally S. Burchett reported that Brian West, known to Burchett as a salesman for CWIS Internet Services, recently posted advertisements in the PDN&S newspaper. According to the affidavit, when Burchett met West on Jan. 31, West indicated to him that he wanted to advertise CWIS Internet Services on the PDN&S website. Burchett provided West advertising rates for the service and West indicated that he would soon contact Burchett. On Feb. 2, according to the federal document, West allegedly telephoned Burchett to ask if Burchett "realized that his website at www.pdns.com was not secure." West allegedly indicated to Burchett that he had accessed the website by obtaining usernames and passwords. Burchett reportedly contacted West at CWIS to discuss how West had accessed the website, and recorded the conversation, that he provided to Det. Jim Craig of the Poteau Police Department. On the tape, West allegedly told Burchett that anyone with Microsoft Front Page, Internet programming software, could enter the PDN&S website, and that there are no safeguards at all. West allegedly said he had done a security overview of the site and provided a technical explanation to Burchett of how to log on with a user password to PDN&S and "edit your stories." "Subsequent investigation determined that this intrusion was not done inadvertently," Headrick wrote in the affidavit. According to court records, West told Burchett on Feb. 7 that he had "inadvertently" entered the website of First National Bank in McAlester, and looked at customer checking and saving accounts and the transfers of funds. West reportedly told an officer at the bank about the event and the bank's lack of security. He said the bank officer thanked him but reacted "in a hostile manner." He said he had accessed the bank's website on two other occasions, then contacted a senior vice president of an Oklahoma City branch of First National to advise him of what had been done. User logs from PDN&S computer indicate that hundreds of attempts to connect to the PDN&S website were made Feb. 1 from three specific Internet addresses owned by Webzone of Tulsa, CWIS Internet Services, and Voltage Networks of Mena, Ark. The computer logs indicate that at least 30 attempts to connect to the newspaper's server from those addresses were made between 4:05 p.m. and 4:48 p.m., according to the court document. It goes on to say that group of attempts were followed by at least five separate attempts to connect to the same computer at PDN&S from the site in Mena. The affidavit said that the logs reflect that many of the attempts to connect were "not simply requests to view the web page, but attempts to access the files and Perl scripts that cause the web page to operate." The document said that a computer operator managed to log into the newspaper 's web page edit program from the Mena site at 7:50 p.m. using the user identification and password of CRTI employee James W. McCoy, Jr. Headrick said that an interview with McCoy revealed that he did not access the PDN&S web page program on Feb. 1 and did not authorize anyone to use his user ID and password. Headrick said that he found that the Internet provider in Mena is owned by CWIS, and that he believes there is an ongoing business relationship between CWIS Internet Services and Webzone in Tulsa and Voltage Networks in Mena. Headrick wrote that he has learned from FBI Computer Crimes Investigator Matthew T. Harper that a computer can be linked so that a person at the Tulsa site could appear to be accessing the web page from Mena, but that computer would show that link. The affidavit said that a CWIS system administrator would be asked to assist the FBI in the search of records on their equipment, but that a member of the FBI Computer Analysis Response Team (CART) would conduct the search if CWIS personnel did not choose to assist the agency. The affidavit accuses West of "conducting computer intrusion activities in violation of Title 18, United State Code, Section 1030(a)(2)(C)." It goes on to allege that the computer used in the crime would be found at CWIS in Stigler. Confiscated in the search were backup data disks and tapes. As of press time Wednesday, no arrests had been made. From dmarti at zgp.org Wed Aug 22 13:41:04 2001 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Court and event changes Message-ID: <20010822134104.B23282@zgp.org> Because of the postponement of Dmitry's pretrial hearing to the 30th, we are _not_ going to have a "pack the courtroom" event tomorrow morning. (Relevant lawyers and media won't be there.) The postponement means that Bay Area people will have a choice of two events for the 30th: pack the courtroom for Dmitry's hearing, or attend the large march starting from Moscone Center in San Francisco. I will be at the large march in San Francisco but it is important to have a full courtroom for the hearing too. However, the Andrew Bunner DVD case hearing is still happening in San Jose tomorrow, and the EFF is asking supporters of freedom to come out for that. For info on the Bunner case tomorrow and on Dmitry's hearing on the 30th: http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010821_eff_sklyarov_bunner_pr.html San Francisco march on the 30th (still on): http://zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/2001-August/003774.html -- Don Marti What do we want? Free Dmitry! When do we want it? Now! http://zgp.org/~dmarti Free Dmitry: http://eff.org/ dmarti@zgp.org Free the web, burn all GIFs: http://burnallgifs.org/ From jono at microshaft.org Wed Aug 22 14:15:03 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] News: Lawyer for Russian Programmer Wants Case Dropped Message-ID: <20010822141503.C94312@networkcommand.com> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010822/tc/tech_hacker_dc_2.html Lawyer for Russian Programmer Wants Case Dropped SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - The defense lawyer for a Russian software programmer accused of violating a controversial U.S. digital copyright law said on Wednesday he was talking to prosecutors about dropping the case and would ask for a delay in his client's arraignment. From david at desjardins.org Wed Aug 22 14:47:56 2001 From: david at desjardins.org (David desJardins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Register: Penguin embraces ebook Message-ID: <200108222147.OAA03710@happy.xkey.com> Christopher R. Maden writes: > No, I don't like how Adobe handles licenses, but there are so many > more real issues to deal with than this, which basically comes down to > a poor wording choice and a goof-up for which the publisher has > apologized, so let's stop harping on it. I don't agree at all. The most fundamental problem with the DMCA is that it enables publishers to prevent fair use. This isn't a minor issue, and it doesn't revolve around "poor wording" or a "goof-up". The problem of "electronic documents" being distributed using software that prevents fair use of that content, and under a legal system that makes it illegal to circumvent those restrictions (i.e., to develop the ability to perform acts that the legal framework otherwise would recognize as fair use), is the heart of the DMCA issue. -- David desJardins From smitty825 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 22 16:27:49 2001 From: smitty825 at yahoo.com (Dan Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Plea Bargin for Dima?!? Message-ID: <20010822232749.58776.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> According to News.com, Both the prosecutors & defense requested an extra week to discuss a possible plea bargin for Dimitry... http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-6949933.html?tag=mn_hd __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From mech at eff.org Tue Aug 21 18:22:34 2001 From: mech at eff.org (Stanton McCandlish) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] URGENT: Dmitry's arraignment postponed Message-ID: Electronic Frontier Foundation Media Advisory REVISED: 6pm PT, Aug. 21, 2001 ------------------------------ Russian Programmer to Appear in California Court Dmitry Sklyarov Issues Statement Thanking Supporters For Immediate Release: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 Contact: Robin Gross, EFF Intellectual Property Attorney robin@eff.org +1 415-436-9333 x112 (office) +1 415 637-5310 (cell) Cindy Cohn, EFF Offline Legal Director cindy@eff.org +1 415 436-9333 x108 (office) +1 415 823-2148 (cell) David Greene, First Amendment Project Director fap@thefirstamendment.org +1 510-208-7744 San Jose, California - Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov will appear in a California federal court next week, for an arraignment on charges of trafficking in a copyright circumvention device. For programming a software application that appears to be legal in Moscow where he wrote it, Sklyarov -- who is out of custody on $50,000 bail -- faces a potential prison term of five years and a $500,000 fine. The arraignment was scheduled for 9:30am PT, Thursday, August 23, but has been postponed as of this afternoon, exact time and date to-be-determined. The hearing should be held with US Magistrate Judge Richard Seeborg presiding, in courtroom 4, 5th floor of the Federal District Court for the Northern District of California, San Jose Branch, 280 South 1st Street, in San Jose, California (but these details could change). Nonviolent protests will be scheduled outside the hearing in San Jose, and in Moscow (Russia), Cambridge (England), London (England), Minneapolis, Boston, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and Black Rock City, Nevada. Dmitry Skylarov issued the following statement thanking the activists who have taken up his cause: To everyone who spent their time helping me: During the three weeks I spent in jail I learned that many people were protesting against my arrest. I also learned that Adobe withdrew its support of my arrest after meeting with EFF. But I was not able to see that or to read letters and articles about my case. After being released from jail on August 6, I was really surprised and impressed by the scale of the action and the number of people involved in the protests. I'm not an IT superman. I'm just a programmer, like many others. It was unexpected by me that so many people would support a guy from another country that nobody heard about before. Your support means a lot to me and my family and makes a difference for all. This experience is going to change me in a profound way that I cannot even appreciate fully as yet. Thank you very much. Dmitry Sklyarov Directions and map to San Jose Federal Building: http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/CourtInfo.nsf/6f311f8841e7da248825 6405006827f0/f3b46c67b334132e88256682007f6ba9OpenDocument Background on the Sklyarov case: http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/ Calendar of protests related to the Sklyarov case: http://www.freesklyarov.org/calendar/ Coincidentally, the same afternoon nearby in San Jose, a California state appellate court will hear oral arguments regarding whether dozens of Internet publishers can be ordered to "stop the presses" pending the outcome of a California trade secrets trial. In January 2000, as part of a trade secrets case brought by the motion picture industry, Santa Clara County Superior Court Judge William Elfving ordered that Andrew Bunner and numerous other defendants halt Internet publication of the source code for DeCSS pending the outcome of a trial. DeCSS is free software that allows people to play DVDs without technological restrictions, such as platform limitations and region codes, that are preferred by movie studios. Bunner, represented by the Electronic Frontier Foundation and the First Amendment Project, is appealing this prior restraint on his free speech rights. The case is In Re: DVD Copy Control Assoc., Inc. v. Bunner, case no. H021153. Oral arguments will begin at 1:30 PM before California's Sixth Appellate Court, located at 333 West Santa Clara Street, Suite 1060, San Jose, CA 95113. Directions and map to San Jose Appellate Court Building: http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/courts/courtsofappeal/6thDistrict/ location.htm Background on the DVD Copy Control Assoc., Inc. v. Bunner case: http://www.eff.org/IP/Video/DVDCCA_case/ About EFF: The Electronic Frontier Foundation is the leading civil liberties organization working to protect rights in the digital world. Founded in 1990, EFF actively encourages and challenges industry and government to support free expression, privacy, and openness in the information society. EFF is a member-supported organization and maintains one of the most linked-to Web sites in the world: http://www.eff.org/ About FAP: The First Amendment Project (FAP) is a nonprofit, public interest law firm established in 1991 to protect, defend, and further the rights to participate in and know about government activities and speak freely about public issues: http://thefirstamendment.org/ - end - -- -- Stanton McCandlish mech@eff.org http://www.eff.org/~mech Technical Director/Webmaster Electronic Frontier Foundation voice: +1 415 436 9333 x105 fax: +1 415 436 9993 EFF, 454 Shotwell St. San Francisco CA 94110 USA From bobds at blorch.org Wed Aug 22 19:33:16 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01082219331600.13964@bitworks> On Wednesday 22 August 2001 09:46, you wrote: > Tom, > > I'm very interested in working this with you (depending, of course, on > some of the philosophical details). > > I'd love to see a modern "society of patronage" that collected money and > paid artists to create new work that is unencumbered by restrictive > distribution law or license. I've actually been working on a system for doing just that (connecting patrons with beneficiaries). In my vision, these beneficiaries need not necessarily be "artists" (want to show your appreciation for a Linux project or individual developer?) and the patrons could be small-time donors, either making a single gift to a particular party or getting something akin to a "subscription" where some pledged amount of money would be transferred every month, every quarter, etc. Anybody interested in this kind of project, please contact me at my primary e-mail (bsmart@blorch.org). If there's enough interest, I'll set up a Mailman list about it--but in any case, I'd like to discuss it more. -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From bobds at blorch.org Wed Aug 22 19:53:53 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Plea Bargin for Dima?!? In-Reply-To: <20010822232749.58776.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010822232749.58776.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01082219535301.13964@bitworks> On Wednesday 22 August 2001 16:27, you wrote: > According to News.com, Both the prosecutors & defense > requested an extra week to discuss a possible plea > bargin for Dimitry... I've been expecting that for a while. It would make a lot of sense for the Forces of Evil to do this, too: if Dmitry pleads guilty, it establishes (if not necessarily legally, at least politically) that his arrest was proper and what he did was a crime, which was probably the main point of this whole fiasco from the beginning. Holding him any longer does not further advance the agenda of legitimizing the criminal part of DMCA, and the longer this goes on, the more public attention is drawn to what I belive was intended to be an obscure little battleground that nobody would notice until it was too late. Once the basic premise of DMCA is supported in this way, the next obvious step is to go arrest somebody else, but broaden the scope of the "crime" even further next time. Meanwhile, we've been deprived of our Poster Child, so mostly they're probably hoping that all this public attention will die down so they can continue quietly subverting the Constitution in relative obscurity. The one thing that went somewhat haywire with the whole scheme was that nobody anticpated that there would be actual marching in the streets over one foreign hacker being held on an eye-glazingly technical charge, particularly in connection with a product (e-books) that nobody knows or cares about. However, if Dmitry pleads out at this point, then the important point has been made and the overall pro-DRM mission can still be considered a success. So I want him to go home, however he can and whatever he has to do, because he should be with his family...but if that's how it plays out, I'd say that's a pretty stunning blow to DRM dissidents and it will make any further progress MUCH more difficult for us. So, as others have been asking recently: NOW what do we do? -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From dmarti at zgp.org Wed Aug 22 20:51:43 2001 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Plea Bargin for Dima?!? In-Reply-To: <01082219535301.13964@bitworks> Message-ID: <20010822205143.A31817@zgp.org> begin Bob Smart quotation of Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 07:53:53PM -0700: > So, as others have been asking recently: NOW what do we do? A lot of the "now what do we do" ideas that could help reform the DMCA once Dmitry is home would be confusing at best and counterproductive at worst now. Best for Dmitry to get home first, then we declare victory in a big way, then we ask that question. (We can talk future stuff at the party we throw for shutting this list down.) -- Don Marti What do we want? Free Dmitry! When do we want it? Now! http://zgp.org/~dmarti Free Dmitry: http://eff.org/ dmarti@zgp.org Free the web, burn all GIFs: http://burnallgifs.org/ From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Aug 22 21:56:13 2001 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Plea Bargin for Dima?!? In-Reply-To: <20010822232749.58776.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010822215613.F10896@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> begin Dan Smith quotation: > According to News.com, Both the prosecutors & defense > requested an extra week to discuss a possible plea > bargin for Dimitry... > > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-6949933.html?tag=mn_hd Yes, that _is_ what CNet claims, but that is _not_ what defence attorney Joseph Burton actually said, per the article: "We're talking about whether or not there are any potential ways to dispose of the case. We've been talking to them for a while." I suspect Ambrose Bierce might have been anticipating CNet/ news.com's reporting standards in his Devil's Dictionary's entry for... truth, n. An ingenious compound of desirability and appearance.... One might also find this entry relevant: justice, n. A commodity which is a more or less adulterated condition the State sells to the citizen as a reward for his allegiance, taxes and personal service. -- Cheers, Higgledy-Piggledy / Kibo Ubiquitous, Rick Moen Greps for his name in the / Happynet spool. rick@linuxmafia.com Interdimensional / Cyberspace deity: Didaktyliaios / Dada is cool. -- Lewis Stiller From jaed at jaedworks.com Wed Aug 22 21:28:51 2001 From: jaed at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Plea Bargin for Dima?!? In-Reply-To: <20010822205143.A31817@zgp.org> References: <01082219535301.13964@bitworks> Message-ID: At 8:51 PM -0700 8/22/2001, Don Marti wrote: >A lot of the "now what do we do" ideas that could help reform >the DMCA once Dmitry is home would be confusing at best and >counterproductive at worst now. Best for Dmitry to get home first, >then we declare victory in a big way, then we ask that question. "Declare victory in a big way" is key here. For those who are in touch with pressoids, organizing events, putting up web pages, or otherwise doing large-scale publicity, the attitude to take is not "the Feds let Dmitri off in their mercy" - which is undoubtedly how the FBI and Adobe will attempt to spin any plea bargain - but "the Feds realized they had no act any informed jury would convict someone for, they saw the outrage on the part of the programmer community, therefore they engaged in a face-saving maneuver". If Dmitri is able to go home to his family - regardless of any show "plea-bargain" terms or coerced guilty plea - that *is* a victory, an important one, and not just for Dmitri Sklyarov but for the anti-DMCA movement. If this should happen, it's important to remember that and keep it front and center. -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed@jaedworks.com http://www.jaedworks.com From kmself at ix.netcom.com Thu Aug 23 00:27:52 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Bunner events Thurs 8/23, San Jose? Message-ID: <20010823002751.C31265@navel.introspect> So is there or isn't there going to be an assembly at the Santa Clara Courthouse Thursday? Bunner's hearing is scheduled for 1:30 IIRC. Some of us would like to coordinate events for the day if at all possible.... Cheers. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010823/ff3281b1/attachment.pgp From wiljan at pobox.com Thu Aug 23 00:43:30 2001 From: wiljan at pobox.com (Will Janoschka) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: Plea bargin fot Dima ?!? Message-ID: <200108230806.DAA001.54@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed@jaedworks.com wrote: > If Dmitri is able to go home to his family - regardless of any show > "plea-bargain" terms or coerced guilty plea - that *is* a victory, an > important one, and not just for Dmitri Sklyarov but for the anti-DMCA > movement. If this should happen, it's important to remember that and keep > it front and center. Whoa! A guilty plea means that Dimitry is a convicted felon in the US. Not exactly free. 'prolly cannot return to the US should he ever want to. The DoJ on the other hand dosen't want to drop charges, 'cause of egg on face, and possible false arrest charges. If both the DoJ and Joseph Burton agree on all facts of evidence: 1. Did Dmitry know what AEBPR did and that it was offered for sale? Yes 2. Did Dmitry receive compensation for AEBPR? Yes, Elcomsoft payed him. 3. Did the FBI have a proper "Sting Warrant" before Adobe showed them the goods? Don't ask and don't try to bring that up later. OK 4. More material facts we can agree on? Yes. 5. Any material facts we can't agree on? No. Dmitry pleads not guilty on the grounds of unconstitutionality of 17 USC 1201 (b1). Both sides ask for a summary judgement. DoJ asks for no jail time. Judge finds Dmitry guilty and the fine is an obscene number of Rubles, ($50,000 dollars US). Dmity goes home, a felon in the US (under appeal). Now we celebrate, give lots of money to the EFF, case goes to the US Supreme Court, they reverse, and Dmitry is FREE. I don't know whether "if AEBPR can circumvent anything" is a material fact or a legal question. Any legal people out there? From free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org Thu Aug 23 01:23:51 2001 From: free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org (Julian T. J. Midgley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Plea Bargin for Dima?!? In-Reply-To: <01082219535301.13964@bitworks> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Bob Smart wrote: > On Wednesday 22 August 2001 16:27, you wrote: > > According to News.com, Both the prosecutors & defense > > requested an extra week to discuss a possible plea > > bargin for Dimitry... > > I've been expecting that for a while. It would make a lot of sense for the > Forces of Evil to do this, too: if Dmitry pleads guilty, it establishes (if > not necessarily legally, at least politically) that his arrest was proper and > what he did was a crime, which was probably the main point of this whole > fiasco from the beginning. Holding him any longer does not further advance > the agenda of legitimizing the criminal part of DMCA, and the longer this > goes on, the more public attention is drawn to what I belive was intended to > be an obscure little battleground that nobody would notice until it was too > late. Please note that all this talk of plea bargains is the result of some gratuitous misrepresentation on the part of the News.com journalist. The Reuters piece picked up by Yahoo quoted Joseph Burton, Dmitry's Attorney, as saying "I would like them to drop the case against Dmitry", and the article went on to say that "Burton said he was not specifically interested in a plea deal, but would not rule it out". Somehow, News.com has managed to turn this into "Burton asks for plea deal"... which is good going, since that's about 180 degrees away from what he actually wants. That said, in the event that there were to be a plea bargain, all your comments are valid. What do you do now? Carry on with the hard work. It would be pretty trivial to represent a plea bargain as "Russian programmer pleads guilty in order to get home faster - after all, he's no particular reason to want to waste his life in the US waiting for court cases and appeals, etc in order to sort out a broken US law". The precedent isn't that damaging and the DMCA remains as flawed on fair use and other grounds as it always has been. Don't give up - go for the gullet. The more factually correct yahoo article: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010822/tc/tech_hacker_dc_2.html Julian -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F UK Free Dmitry Protest: http://uk.freesklyarov.org/ From debug at centras.lt Thu Aug 23 01:39:02 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: <1641422860.20010820154351@centras.lt> References: <1641422860.20010820154351@centras.lt> Message-ID: <1305515487.20010823103902@centras.lt> Huaiyu Zhu wrote: >So the question is: Is it possible to reward authors to an adequate >amount without restricting the distribution and usage of his work? Here is a proposition of how this could be done: ( this is partly Tom's and partly mine plan ) Let's say we have a band that wants to produce music and get rewarded for it. - band presents what albums are already available or/and presents a plan of what is expected to be done - band calculates what it'll take to produce the new album - public announcement: "we need $X. we will wait until date Y." - fans start to preorder by transferring their money to the trustee account together with their demands, requirments and/or suggestions of how the new album should look like so the trustee account consists of assigned money i.e. it is known who's money and what are intended for - at date Y, the band takes a look through all preorders (this is assigned money in the trustee account) and selects to sign those the band thinks it can satisfy. Let's say they signed preorders with total amout Z of money attached to these preorders. - if Z > X, everything is fine and the band goes producing. From crism at maden.org Thu Aug 23 01:43:05 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: Plea bargin fot Dima ?!? In-Reply-To: <200108230806.DAA001.54@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010823014141.00a5db40@mail.maden.org> At 00:43 23-08-2001, Will Janoschka wrote: >Whoa! A guilty plea means that Dimitry is a convicted felon in the US. > Not exactly free. 'prolly cannot return to the US should he ever want to. I've been putting my money since this started on a "no contest" plea, and a sentence of time served. No contest isn't the same as a guilty plea, but the DOJ gets to look like they're doing their job, and everyone's happy (especially Oksana and the kids). -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From tom at lemuria.org Thu Aug 23 04:10:49 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: <1305515487.20010823103902@centras.lt>; from debug@centras.lt on Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 10:39:02AM +0200 References: <1641422860.20010820154351@centras.lt> <1305515487.20010823103902@centras.lt> Message-ID: <20010823131049.C999@lemuria.org> On Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 10:39:02AM +0200, DeBug wrote: > agree to transfer money from the trustee account to the band > he must prove the demands he assigned to his preorder are not > fulfilled. If he fails to prove his money are given to the band > if he proves - he takes the money back. The proof MUST BE BASED > ON WHAT WAS WRITTEN IN HIS PREORDER. those part are debug's additions, btw. my personal vision rests squarely on making things as simple as possible. not sure which is best, but for starts, simple is usually good. > P.S. > I have found at least four people interested in discussing this issue > me debug@centras.lt > Tom tom@lemuria.org > Bob bsmart@blorch.org > Jeme jeme@brelin.net > Is it enough to set up a mailing list ? anyone wants to set one up? I can do if nobody else wants. From tom at lemuria.org Thu Aug 23 04:23:29 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: <01082219331600.13964@bitworks>; from bobds@blorch.org on Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 07:33:16PM -0700 References: <01082219331600.13964@bitworks> Message-ID: <20010823132329.D999@lemuria.org> On Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 07:33:16PM -0700, Bob Smart wrote: > > I'm very interested in working this with you (depending, of course, on > > some of the philosophical details). coming at the bottom > I've actually been working on a system for doing just that (connecting > patrons with beneficiaries). In my vision, these beneficiaries need not > necessarily be "artists" (want to show your appreciation for a Linux project > or individual developer?) and the patrons could be small-time donors, either > making a single gift to a particular party or getting something akin to a > "subscription" where some pledged amount of money would be transferred every > month, every quarter, etc. > > Anybody interested in this kind of project, please contact me at my primary > e-mail (bsmart@blorch.org). If there's enough interest, I'll set up a > Mailman list about it--but in any case, I'd like to discuss it more. please set up the mailman list and add me. I think these two approaches have lots of things in common, but there's two differences: - I concentrate on music for several practical reasons (including easy worldwide distribution) - in my system, nobody gives away money or does any kind of "support" work. it's just that you buy the CD before it gets done. philosophical details: the whole idea rests on this: - punch a hole into the music mafia stranglehold by connecting artists and music lovers as directly as possible. - cut out the middle men economically, which would drop prices dramatically. I envision the price for an album could be around 2 euro (or $2). - distribute the risk. when the band goes into the studio, it knows that part or all of the bill are covered by preorders. - deal a huge blow to piracy. at 2 euro or $, the original can actually compete with the copy, because not having to hunt around for your favorite stuff on napster et al for an hour only to find that track 3 is of horrible quality is easily worth 2 bucks to almost everyone. - help fresh blood break into the music market. new and unknown bands have really no way today. only thing they can do is sell their souls and sign a record contract. I want to give them a choice. From tom at lemuria.org Thu Aug 23 04:29:27 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: ; from jeme@brelin.net on Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 09:46:36AM -0700 References: <20010822121430.C23415@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20010823132927.E999@lemuria.org> On Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 09:46:36AM -0700, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > I think the law is somewhat against us in the US, though. I fear we may > have to resort to using copyright against itself, ala GPL, in order to > prevent the work from being co-opted by restrictive licensing schemes. > Perhaps this isn't necessary if we stick to the sort of work that > generally remains in accessible form like the written word and music. > > Is this the sort of thing you were considering? I would absolutely use the current copyright system. music published through my service would be copyrighted - by the BAND, not the service, and be subject to all the usual copyright restrictions. of course, since it's published in .mp3, friends will send each other copies. and that's fine and (at least here in germany) perfectly legal. and I do believe it's not a danger to the band or service, because: a) at the price I aim for (2 euro or $2 per album), the service could easily compete with napster-like exchanges. b) it means more publicity for the band which will very likely turn into more (pre)orders for their next album. From debug at centras.lt Thu Aug 23 04:30:37 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: <20010823131049.C999@lemuria.org> References: <1641422860.20010820154351@centras.lt> <1305515487.20010823103902@centras.lt> <20010823131049.C999@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <114961904.20010823133037@centras.lt> >> agree to transfer money from the trustee account to the band >> he must prove the demands he assigned to his preorder are not >> fulfilled. If he fails to prove his money are given to the band >> if he proves - he takes the money back. The proof MUST BE BASED >> ON WHAT WAS WRITTEN IN HIS PREORDER. T> those part are debug's additions, btw. my personal vision rests T> squarely on making things as simple as possible. not sure which is T> best, but for starts, simple is usually good. This really becomes off topic but i just let me one comment To make things as simple as Tom says one can set a default preorder form with the following statement in it: "I am as preorderer agree to that the money i put now to the trustee accout may be given to the band as soon as it signs this preorder. This can be done even if the band will fail to produce the album" Now what my addition is useful for: It can attract those people who do not trust the band enough ( Oh i know they will produce useless junk etc ... ) On the other hand i do not force the band to sign too demanding preorders. If the band wishes it can sign only default preorders i mentioned above. In any case both sides will be interested to pull the money out of trustee account and there will be a document in case they get to the court -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From steve at theStarport.org Thu Aug 23 07:49:01 2001 From: steve at theStarport.org (Stephen R. Savitzky) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What I'd like to see: fixing DMCA and IP In-Reply-To: "Christopher R. Maden"'s message of "Thu, 23 Aug 2001 01:43:05 -0700" Message-ID: I'd like to see it made illegal to sell, distribute, traffic in, etc. any file format or software that *prevents* fair use of legitimately purchased copyrighted material, that prevents such material from reverting to the public domain when its copyright has expired, or that restricts in any way the use of public domain material. An appropriate penalty would be that the works so "protected" be forfeited to the public domain. I'd like to see compulsory mechanical licensing for works distributed electronically, at the same rate per copy as works distributed on physical media. [This ought to be extended to compensate performers as well as authors.] (For those unfamiliar with the way things work in the music industry, compulsory licensing means that anyone can perform a song, record it, and sell copies: they owe the author and publisher about US$0.065 each. Compensating authors and publishers for electronic distribution has been a solved problem since 1910, when ASCAP was founded.) I'd like to see the term of copyright protection reduced to something reasonable, e.g., the same term as a patent. I'd like to see an international treaty that prohibits any juristiction from applying its laws to individuals who are breaking no law at their own physical location. Call it Dmitry's Law. Maybe the next step is a "Universal Declaration of [*] Rights" comparable to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. [*] I don't know what word best fills this slot; suggestions will be gratefully accepted. -- / Steve Savitzky \ 1997 Pegasus Award winner: best science song--+ \ / http://theStarport.com/people/steve/ V \ \ hacker/songwriter: http://theStarport.com/people/steve/Doc/Songs/ \_ Kids' page: MOVED ---> http://Interesting.Places.to/Browse/forKids/ _/ From doug at mcnaught.org Thu Aug 23 08:42:28 2001 From: doug at mcnaught.org (Doug McNaught) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: Plea bargin fot Dima ?!? In-Reply-To: "Christopher R. Maden"'s message of "Thu, 23 Aug 2001 01:43:05 -0700" References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010823014141.00a5db40@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: "Christopher R. Maden" writes: > At 00:43 23-08-2001, Will Janoschka wrote: > >Whoa! A guilty plea means that Dimitry is a convicted felon in the US. > > Not exactly free. 'prolly cannot return to the US should he ever want to. > > I've been putting my money since this started on a "no contest" plea, and a > sentence of time served. No contest isn't the same as a guilty plea, but the > DOJ gets to look like they're doing their job, and everyone's happy > (especially Oksana and the kids). But he still ends up convicted and will have problems ever coming back to the US (assuming he ever wanted to). -Doug -- Free Dmitry Sklyarov! http://www.freesklyarov.org/ We will return to our regularly scheduled signature shortly. From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Aug 23 08:58:25 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Bunner events Thurs 8/23, San Jose? In-Reply-To: <20010823002751.C31265@navel.introspect> References: <20010823002751.C31265@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <20010823085825.V13023@zork.net> Karsten M. Self writes: > So is there or isn't there going to be an assembly at the Santa Clara > Courthouse Thursday? Bunner's hearing is scheduled for 1:30 IIRC. > > Some of us would like to coordinate events for the day if at all > possible.... Bunner supporters will be there, and Sklyarov supporters who are also Bunner supporters will be there. Sklyarov supporters with no interest in the DVD CCA case are likely to stay home today. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From jeme at brelin.net Thu Aug 23 10:40:07 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What I'd like to see: fixing DMCA and IP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 23 Aug 2001, Stephen R. Savitzky wrote: > I'd like to see it made illegal to sell, distribute, traffic in, > etc. any file format or software that *prevents* fair use of > legitimately purchased copyrighted material, that prevents such material > from reverting to the public domain when its copyright has expired, or > that restricts in any way the use of public domain material. > > An appropriate penalty would be that the works so "protected" be > forfeited to the public domain. I've come to a similar conclusion that works like this: PUBLISHING requires making a work available in a usable format; documented, standardized, unrestricted by patent, access keys, or physically scarce devices. If you publish, you get copyright protection (slightly more of the public's rights are retained than today, however). You are free to ALSO distribute in a closed format, but you cannot make an infringement claim without PROVING that the infringing copies were made from the "cleartext" work. That is to say, copies made from "circumvention" are not infringing. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From thedward at barsoom.net Thu Aug 23 10:55:54 2001 From: thedward at barsoom.net (the Edward Blevins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: <1305515487.20010823103902@centras.lt>; from debug@centras.lt on Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 10:39:02AM +0200 References: <1641422860.20010820154351@centras.lt> <1305515487.20010823103902@centras.lt> Message-ID: <20010823125553.V31368@barsoom.net> On Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 10:39:02AM +0200, DeBug wrote: > Huaiyu Zhu wrote: > >So the question is: Is it possible to reward authors to an adequate > >amount without restricting the distribution and usage of his work? > Here is a proposition of how this could be done: > ( this is partly Tom's and partly mine plan ) Others have followed a similar thought process and come up with something they call the Stree Performer Protocol; You might want to take a look at it: http://www.firstmonday.dk/issues/issue4_6/kelsey/ http://www.counterpane.com/street_performer.html -- the Edward Blevins (512) 436-9576 /(0\ mi tavla fo la lojban .i xu do go'i? \1)/ .i.e'u ko vitke fi zoi .url. http://www.lojban.org .url. Today is Setting Orange, the 16th day of Bureaucracy, 3167. From tom at lemuria.org Thu Aug 23 11:35:43 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: <20010823125553.V31368@barsoom.net>; from thedward@barsoom.net on Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 12:55:54PM -0500 References: <1641422860.20010820154351@centras.lt> <1305515487.20010823103902@centras.lt> <20010823125553.V31368@barsoom.net> Message-ID: <20010823203543.D16356@lemuria.org> On Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 12:55:54PM -0500, the Edward Blevins wrote: > Others have followed a similar thought process and come up with something > they call the Stree Performer Protocol; You might want to take a look > at it: I know about it. yes, it's very similiar to that part of the service. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From crism at maden.org Thu Aug 23 12:06:47 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: <20010823125553.V31368@barsoom.net> References: <1305515487.20010823103902@centras.lt> <1641422860.20010820154351@centras.lt> <1305515487.20010823103902@centras.lt> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010823120612.00a725e0@mail.maden.org> At 10:55 23-08-2001, the Edward Blevins wrote: >Others have followed a similar thought process and come up with something >they call the Stree Performer Protocol; You might want to take a look >at it: See also . They are very cool. Give them money. -crism From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Thu Aug 23 12:23:22 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What I'd like to see: fixing DMCA and IP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 23 Aug 2001, Stephen R. Savitzky wrote: > I'd like to see it made illegal to sell, distribute, traffic in, > etc. any file format or software that *prevents* fair use of > legitimately purchased copyrighted material, that prevents such material > from reverting to the public domain when its copyright has expired, or > that restricts in any way the use of public domain material. Um, wouldn't this be a ban on encryption? Even if not, I can easily imagine a bill along these lines being altered to include restrictions on privacy. After all, both fair use and wiretapping require the same basic restriction: that people make cleartext available in some form. You could possibly prevent this by outlawing the *publication* or sale of material unless cleartext is available, but not mere distribution or transmission. However, the Internet is slowly turning every act of communication into "publishing." -S From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Thu Aug 23 12:39:03 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: <20010823125553.V31368@barsoom.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, the Edward Blevins wrote: > Others have followed a similar thought process and come up with something > they call the Stree Performer Protocol; You might want to take a look at it: This reminds me: if you can get smaller record companies to adopt any open license (explicitly allowing fair use copying, not participating in fine-grained usage control or putting technological hurdles in the music,) "branding" will become a very important issue. You will want every physical CD case, especially ones that make it into actual record stores, to have some kind of "FREE AS IN SPEECH" sticker to make sure people are aware of the restrictions the Big Boys have. This is a bit off topic from alternative distribution methods, tho. From what I've read, the only way to cheaply make music available is to completely avoid avoid traditional distribution and advertizing, i.e. record stores and radio stations. BTW, where can I find a URL for the Open Audio License? I'm having trouble tracking it down. -S From rknop at pobox.com Thu Aug 23 12:58:00 2001 From: rknop at pobox.com (Robert Knop) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: Plea bargin fot Dima ?!? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > But he still ends up convicted and will have problems ever coming back > to the US (assuming he ever wanted to). Heh. If I were Dmitry Sklyarov, I would *never* come back to this country. Go to a foreign country, give a talk, get arrested by the federal police, rot in jail for a few years... do you go back just because you were instantly a celebrity among the local geeks? Indeed, if I were a lot of other people, I would never come to the USA in the first place now. Heck, if I were me, and I didn't live here, I probably wouldn't come here, unless I was coming from somewhere worse, or unless Europe passes some DMCA-like law that makes the rest of the world just as bad as the USA. -Rob From jeme at brelin.net Thu Aug 23 14:37:54 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, Xcott Craver wrote: > This reminds me: if you can get smaller record companies to adopt any > open license (explicitly allowing fair use copying, not participating > in fine-grained usage control or putting technological hurdles in the > music,) "branding" will become a very important issue. You will want > every physical CD case, especially ones that make it into actual > record stores, to have some kind of "FREE AS IN SPEECH" sticker to > make sure people are aware of the restrictions the Big Boys have. > > This is a bit off topic from alternative distribution methods, tho. This is the worst idea I've ever heard. It is not appropriate to legitimize licensing where purchasing is more powerful and desirable. I want to be able to BUY a CD. I am not "licensing content"... I'm buying a plastic disc. It's mine. I can do with it as I please. I don't need special permission to use it in certain ways (except maybe burning it or pulverizing it or something environmentally damaging that impacts the future as much as any living person). We don't need new licenses, we need to stop licensing things that should be sold. The only reason they can even pretend you don't have fair use rights is because they're not selling you a copy, they're licensing the content to you. Personally, I think work that is only licensed and never sold (like prints of movies in theatrical release, most commercial software, and ebooks) shouldn't be granted any kind of copyright at all because they're not published. Why should we give you copyright if you don't make copies available to the public? You want us to protect your interests but you're doing nothing to benefit the public writ large. > From what I've read, the only way to cheaply make music available is > to completely avoid avoid traditional distribution and advertizing, > i.e. record stores and radio stations. Pretty much. There's a premium that goes along with doing business with the media conglomerates (and pretty much all the radio stations, music distributors, and record stores are owned by one of six global corporate conglomerates). I would say, though, that the best of the music world is far outside the corporate strangle-hold and will stay there. You're not going to have an Olivia Tremor Control on Warner Records. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From sisgeek at yahoo.com Thu Aug 23 14:57:56 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: Plea bargin fot Dima ?!? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010823215756.49841.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> if everytime a bully bullies everone runs the bully will keep bullying. say that fast 5Xs:) --- Robert Knop wrote: > > But he still ends up convicted and will have > problems ever coming back > > to the US (assuming he ever wanted to). > > Heh. If I were Dmitry Sklyarov, I would *never* > come back to this > country. Go to a foreign country, give a talk, get > arrested by the > federal police, rot in jail for a few years... do > you go back just > because you were instantly a celebrity among the > local geeks? > > Indeed, if I were a lot of other people, I would > never come to the USA > in the first place now. Heck, if I were me, and I > didn't live here, I > probably wouldn't come here, unless I was coming > from somewhere worse, > or unless Europe passes some DMCA-like law that > makes the rest of the > world just as bad as the USA. > > -Rob > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Thu Aug 23 15:04:45 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: Plea bargin fot Dima ?!? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010823014141.00a5db40@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <20010823220445.84082.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> hi chris, in this instance your distiction is without a difference - it might matter, say if you anticipate civil liability, too. --- "Christopher R. Maden" wrote: > At 00:43 23-08-2001, Will Janoschka wrote: > >Whoa! A guilty plea means that Dimitry is a > convicted felon in the US. > > Not exactly free. 'prolly cannot return to the > US should he ever want to. > > I've been putting my money since this started on a > "no contest" plea, and a > sentence of time served. No contest isn't the same > as a guilty plea, but > the DOJ gets to look like they're doing their job, > and everyone's happy > (especially Oksana and the kids). > > -crism > -- > David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free > Dmitry! For great justice. > > === Freelance Text Nerd: http://crism.maden.org/ > === > PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 > F825 AFEC 58DA > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From crism at maden.org Thu Aug 23 15:02:43 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: Plea bargin fot Dima ?!? In-Reply-To: <20010823220445.84082.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010823014141.00a5db40@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010823150124.00a83a30@mail.maden.org> At 15:04 23-08-2001, alfee cube wrote: >in this instance your distiction is without a >difference - it might matter, say if you anticipate >civil liability, too. ? A no contest plea is not an admission of guilt. This is important because (a) in the long run, it means that the DMCA did *not* convict anyone on criminal charges, and (b) it means that he won't necessarily be barred from returning to the US in the future, unless that's explicitly part of the sentence. -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Thu Aug 23 15:39:40 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > It is not appropriate to legitimize licensing where purchasing is more > powerful and desirable. Well, that's kind of my point. Any record company that does refuse to embrace DRM and strict usage agreements should declare as much on the CD case. Something that says, yes, this is going to be your CD when you buy it; and no, we're not making any effort to control how you use it. It's yours. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word "licence." Can you think of a better word? "Initiative?" Point is, if you can get a bunch of smaller record companies to agree to an open ... um, ... policy, it's best to give this initiative a logo and a web site so customers who buy music the old fashioned way can become aware of it (and, by extension, the alternative.) Another important point here is that you don't want all the space in a record store, the entire visible recording industry, behaving identically. You don't want people to perceive DRM as the Way Things Are, or the Way Things Have Always Been. You want it to be something that only some companies do, and other companies don't, and which becomes a selling point that people find out about when they go shopping. Finally, you want there to be a commercial incentive for smaller companies to reject DRM. Hence visibility in the form of a sticker or logo, bragging that this CD is better. Think of it as the music equivalent of a "FAT FREE" label. S From dmarti at zgp.org Thu Aug 23 15:52:50 2001 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Plea Bargin for Dima?!? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010823155250.L20399@zgp.org> begin Jeanne A. E. DeVoto quotation of Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 09:28:51PM -0700: > For those who are in touch with pressoids, organizing events, putting up > web pages, or otherwise doing large-scale publicity, the attitude to take > is not "the Feds let Dmitri off in their mercy" - which is undoubtedly how > the FBI and Adobe will attempt to spin any plea bargain - but "the Feds > realized they had no act any informed jury would convict someone for, they > saw the outrage on the part of the programmer community, therefore they > engaged in a face-saving maneuver". That's an excellent way to put it. Also "Any company that tries this kind of thing in future is going to face customer and employee rage." -- Don Marti What do we want? Free Dmitry! When do we want it? Now! http://zgp.org/~dmarti Free Dmitry: http://eff.org/ dmarti@zgp.org Free the web, burn all GIFs: http://burnallgifs.org/ From dmarti at zgp.org Thu Aug 23 15:58:05 2001 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010823155805.N20399@zgp.org> begin Xcott Craver quotation of Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 06:39:40PM -0400: > Finally, you want there to be a commercial incentive for > smaller companies to reject DRM. Hence visibility in the form of > a sticker or logo, bragging that this CD is better. Think > of it as the music equivalent of a "FAT FREE" label. Lydia Kinata did this one: http://zgp.org/~dmarti/open_logo/ It could also be used for non-DRM players, sound cards, media, you name it. -- Don Marti What do we want? Free Dmitry! When do we want it? Now! http://zgp.org/~dmarti Free Dmitry: http://eff.org/ dmarti@zgp.org Free the web, burn all GIFs: http://burnallgifs.org/ From steve at theStarport.org Thu Aug 23 21:24:33 2001 From: steve at theStarport.org (Stephen R. Savitzky) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What I'd like to see: fixing DMCA and IP In-Reply-To: Xcott Craver's message of "Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:23:22 -0400 (EDT)" References: Message-ID: Xcott Craver writes: > On 23 Aug 2001, Stephen R. Savitzky wrote: > > > I'd like to see it made illegal to sell, distribute, traffic in, > > etc. any file format or software that *prevents* fair use of > > legitimately purchased copyrighted material, that prevents such material > > from reverting to the public domain when its copyright has expired, or > > that restricts in any way the use of public domain material. > > Um, wouldn't this be a ban on encryption? No -- only on encryption that serves to prevent or restrict fair use of purchased material. Encrypt personal communication all you like. For that matter, encrypt what you sell, as long as the decryption software doesn't prevent your making clean copies. Actually, it would be sufficient to include a unique serial number and digital signature on every copy you sell. That way if somebody distributed a large number of copies you could trace them (or if they filed the serial numbers and signatures off, you could bust anyone in possession of an unsigned copy, since it's obviously stolen). > Even if not, I can easily imagine a bill along these lines > being altered to include restrictions on privacy. After all, > both fair use and wiretapping require the same basic restriction: > that people make cleartext available in some form. I'd like to see the right to privacy ensured, too, but that's another matter. > You could possibly prevent this by outlawing the *publication* > or sale of material unless cleartext is available, but not mere > distribution or transmission. However, the Internet is slowly > turning every act of communication into "publishing." Basically correct. No money changes hands, it's not a problem. No restriction on the use of the output of the decryption program, also not a problem. That way you could buy something that might be illegal, or even just embarassing to somebody in power, but still have fair use of it once you decrypted it. -- / Steve Savitzky \ 1997 Pegasus Award winner: best science song--+ \ / http://theStarport.com/people/steve/ V \ \ hacker/songwriter: http://theStarport.com/people/steve/Doc/Songs/ \_ Kids' page: MOVED ---> http://Interesting.Places.to/Browse/forKids/ _/ From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Thu Aug 23 22:10:30 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What I'd like to see: fixing DMCA and IP References: Message-ID: <3B85E1C6.787A5681@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> "Slowly?" Seth Johnson Xcott Craver wrote: > > However, the Internet is slowly > turning every act of communication into "publishing." From steve at theStarport.org Thu Aug 23 22:42:47 2001 From: steve at theStarport.org (Stephen R. Savitzky) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: Don Marti's message of "Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:58:05 -0700" References: <20010823155805.N20399@zgp.org> Message-ID: Don Marti writes: > begin Xcott Craver quotation of Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 06:39:40PM -0400: > > > Finally, you want there to be a commercial incentive for > > smaller companies to reject DRM. Hence visibility in the form of > > a sticker or logo, bragging that this CD is better. Think > > of it as the music equivalent of a "FAT FREE" label. > > Lydia Kinata did this one: > http://zgp.org/~dmarti/open_logo/ > > It could also be used for non-DRM players, sound cards, media, you > name it. I like this, especially if it can be construed as meaning: "go ahead and make _fair use_ copies, but don't go selling a million of them". One of the problems with many of the "open" licenses, like the EFF's OAL, is that they go too far. If somebody sells a CD with one of my songs on it I expect to get paid, thank you -- there's a standard royalty for that (about $0.12 IIRC). But I also don't want them to go so far as to prevent the purchaser from making a copy for their car's tape player or their kid's MP3 player, or lending it to a friend, or re-using the tune (as long as I get the composer's 50% share of their profits). In fact, I'd like to see a license that prohibits distribution in a use-restricted format; might be difficult for songs given compulsory mechanical licensing (US only, I think), but feasible in other cases. It's sort of like the Open Content License's option of reserving to the author the right to make paper copies. What I want is *not* an "open source" type license (which is what's best for software), but something in between, that guarantees fair payments to the author and fair use to the purchaser. -- / Steve Savitzky \ 1997 Pegasus Award winner: best science song--+ \ / http://theStarport.com/people/steve/ V \ \ hacker/songwriter: http://theStarport.com/people/steve/Doc/Songs/ \_ Kids' page: MOVED ---> http://Interesting.Places.to/Browse/forKids/ _/ From jono at microshaft.org Thu Aug 23 22:53:52 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Radio National's Weekly Investigative; Ebooks, copyright, etc. Message-ID: <20010823225352.I2385@networkcommand.com> Radio National's Weekly Investigative Documentary: Knowledge Indignation: Road Rage on the Information Superhighway http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/stories/s345514.htm Very good radio program on Scientists boycotting online journals, Adobe e-Books, Licenses to Read "...increasingly access to this content moves further beyond the boundaries of copyright into the contract law. " "We're moving into an era where we have an exclusive right to read." "...the publishers have suddenly realised that we're serious about this, and we're not playing games." From jeme at brelin.net Thu Aug 23 22:55:47 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 23 Aug 2001, Stephen R. Savitzky wrote: > One of the problems with many of the "open" licenses, like the EFF's > OAL, is that they go too far. If somebody sells a CD with one of my > songs on it I expect to get paid, thank you -- there's a standard > royalty for that (about $0.12 IIRC). But I also don't want them to go > so far as to prevent the purchaser from making a copy for their car's > tape player or their kid's MP3 player, or lending it to a friend, or > re-using the tune (as long as I get the composer's 50% share of their > profits). Um... what you want is standard copyright protection. Don't LICENSE your work. Sell it, and you'll get exactly that and nothing more or less. > In fact, I'd like to see a license that prohibits distribution in a > use-restricted format; might be difficult for songs given compulsory > mechanical licensing (US only, I think), but feasible in other cases. As the copyright holder, you can do that by simply not authorizing those distributions. (with exception for compulsory cases) > It's sort of like the Open Content License's option of reserving to > the author the right to make paper copies. What I want is *not* an > "open source" type license (which is what's best for software), but > something in between, that guarantees fair payments to the author and > fair use to the purchaser. Again, that's plain old copyright. Sell a copy, that's what you get. I can't believe we've gotten so warped by the corporate licensing of the past fifteen years that some people have actually forgotten that you can SELL COPIES and not "license content" and still receive exclusive rights from the public. Sheesh. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From callahanpb at yahoo.com Thu Aug 23 23:55:09 2001 From: callahanpb at yahoo.com (Paul Callahan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ok, i was willing to buy the flight risk line In-Reply-To: <3B85E1C6.787A5681@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20010824065509.17194.qmail@web13102.mail.yahoo.com> ...but, and I realize this is a little off topic, we have some guy from France making an ass of himself around the Statue of Liberty and endangering the lives of people who have to come and rescue him: http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/08/23/statue.parasail/index.html This is a unambiguous offense committed on US soil. This knucklehead is immediately out on bail (passport confiscated--making it harder to leave the country) unlike Sklyarov who was in Federal custody for weeks. Nobody called the stuntman a "flight risk" despite the fact that his home is in France. Can someone please explain why Sklyarov was more of a flight risk than this person? OK, is itbecause it's a misdemeanor offense to selfishly misdirect valuable safety resources (not to mention potentially damaging a national monument) whereas "circumventing" a poorly designed encryption system by writing a program on a computer in Russia is a "felony" under DMCA? That's about all I can figure. Or maybe French are treated better than Russians in this country? Seriously, I'd be interested in a legal analysis from someone who can speak authoritatively. Clearly, it is *not* the case that foreign nationals are routinely denied bail in the US as "flight risks." I was more or less bamboozled into thinking this *was* the case after hearing the official explanations for Sklyarov's initial bail status. Let me repeat: Clearly, it is *not* the case that foreign nationals are routinely denied bail in the US as flight risks. Dmitry was treated badly. Anyone want to convince me otherwise? --Paul __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Aug 24 00:09:47 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ok, i was willing to buy the flight risk line In-Reply-To: <20010824065509.17194.qmail@web13102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: [Disclaimer: IANAL] Silly puns re "flight risk" notwithstanding, there're several differences that may have affected the difference in the proceeding durations. First of all, as you correctly mention, this guy will probably be charged with no more than a misdemeanor, while Dmitry may be charged with a felony and faces much more serious penalties. Yes, we all know that what Dmitry did SHOULD have been perfectly legal (and WAS, in Russia), and that the law is unjust, but, to the justice system, an existing law can be ruled unjust only by a court, and bail hearings are rarely, TBMK, the place to declare laws unconstitutional. Second, Dmitry had to be extradited across state lines, since his case was being handled by the US Atty's office of Northern District of CA rather than the Nevada office; the extradition is what took the most time. His final bail hearing occured only a weekend after his arrival to CA -- a single business day's delay. And keep in mind that he was release on bail after all. On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, Paul Callahan wrote: > ...but, and I realize this is a little off topic, we have some guy > from France making an ass of himself around the Statue of Liberty > and endangering the lives of people who have to come and > rescue him: > > http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/08/23/statue.parasail/index.html > > This is a unambiguous offense committed on US soil. This knucklehead > is > immediately out on bail (passport confiscated--making it harder to > leave the country) unlike Sklyarov who was in Federal custody > for weeks. Nobody called the stuntman a "flight risk" despite > the fact that his home is in France. > > Can someone please explain why Sklyarov was more of a flight risk > than this person? > > OK, is itbecause it's a misdemeanor offense to selfishly > misdirect valuable safety resources (not to mention potentially > damaging a national monument) whereas "circumventing" a poorly > designed encryption system by writing a program on a computer > in Russia is a "felony" under DMCA? That's about all I can figure. > Or maybe French are treated better than Russians in this country? > > Seriously, I'd be interested in a legal analysis from > someone who can speak authoritatively. Clearly, it is *not* the > case that foreign nationals are routinely denied bail in the US as > "flight risks." I was more or less bamboozled into thinking this > *was* the case after hearing the official explanations for > Sklyarov's initial bail status. > > Let me repeat: Clearly, it is *not* the case that foreign nationals > are routinely denied bail in the US as flight risks. Dmitry was > treated badly. Anyone want to convince me otherwise? > > --Paul > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- -alexf From tom at lemuria.org Fri Aug 24 00:12:19 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: ; from jeme@brelin.net on Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 02:37:54PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010824091219.B8293@lemuria.org> On Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 02:37:54PM -0700, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > We don't need new licenses, we need to stop licensing things that should > be sold. that's one thing that's gotta change. right now, we are (mostly) still BUYING the stuff. but the push into pay-per-use is strong. maybe it's still time to reverse that. my music service would definitely SELL you the .mp3 files, not license them. From tom at lemuria.org Fri Aug 24 00:28:42 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ok, i was willing to buy the flight risk line In-Reply-To: <20010824065509.17194.qmail@web13102.mail.yahoo.com>; from callahanpb@yahoo.com on Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:55:09PM -0700 References: <3B85E1C6.787A5681@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> <20010824065509.17194.qmail@web13102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010824092842.C8293@lemuria.org> On Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:55:09PM -0700, Paul Callahan wrote: > OK, is itbecause it's a misdemeanor offense to selfishly > misdirect valuable safety resources (not to mention potentially > damaging a national monument) whereas "circumventing" a poorly > designed encryption system by writing a program on a computer > in Russia is a "felony" under DMCA? That's about all I can figure. > Or maybe French are treated better than Russians in this country? probably both. but it's actually not that unbelievable. what's the max penalty for that guy? I bet its a LOT less than 5 years in prison. From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Aug 24 00:39:53 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 23 Aug 2001, Stephen R. Savitzky wrote: > It's sort of like the Open Content License's option of reserving to the > author the right to make paper copies. What I want is *not* an "open > source" type license (which is what's best for software), but something > in between, that guarantees fair payments to the author and fair use to > the purchaser. Sounds like existing copyright law satisfies your needs. Note that I'm not talking about the adoption of a new license, but of a sort of commitment by a company to stick with the existing balance that is copyright law. Funny how it can sometimes be innovative just to stand still. So this audio FAT FREE sticker would just mean, "1, we don't have any watermarks or fingerprints or rip-proofing errors on this CD. 2, fair use of this CD is not expressly prohibited, as if we were even allowed to prohibit it. 3., we do not intend to treat you, pre-emptively, as a criminal." In other words, it's a plain old ordinary CD, just like the ones you bought in previous years, with the same rights as the ones you bought in previous years. Guaranteed not to destroy your obscure stereo! Scott From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Aug 24 00:47:19 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: <20010824091219.B8293@lemuria.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Tom wrote: > that's one thing that's gotta change. right now, we are (mostly) still > BUYING the stuff. but the push into pay-per-use is strong. maybe it's > still time to reverse that. And language is a big part of it. We keep falling into the trap of using the terminology of the novus ordo pay-per-use. Here I was talking about "licenses" and didn't even realize it. And it's hard not to use the term "intellectual property," a term that further enforces a false notion of ownership. Maybe "intellectual property" would be an accurate term if used appropriately. I can see how copyrights and trademarks themselves can be considered property, rather than the actual material being copyrighted. People do buy and sell and transfer ownership of copyrights and patents. But, too often people refer to books themselves as someone's intellectual property. S From macki at 2600.com Fri Aug 24 05:03:50 2001 From: macki at 2600.com (Macki) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [DMITRY-PLAN] SF Volunteer Desperately Needed Message-ID: <20010824050350.omerta.31346db2cf67.5650.a333e3000554.6144@rotten.com> What permits? Are we blocking any streets? No. We don't need any permits at all. Especially not in SF, I've marched with a hundred people down market street during rush hour with police escort and no permit and no problems. If you want a parade permit, it probably takes longer than a week (besides for being inappropriate). I understand the chilling effect that police violence can have on would be demonstrators, but PLEASE do your research. Needlessly asking the state for permission before you exercise your free speech rights is not only a waste of time and energy, but underminds people's confidence in the legitemacy of our actions. It's sending a message to participants that what we're doing is some thing other than a perfectly normal and legal activity that should be commonplace in any democracy, and that it's in need of prior approval by the police. Yes, it sometimes pays to be paranoid, but not at the cost of self-censorship and chilling your speech. If you're still concerned, contact the National Lawyer's Guild of SF and ask them to send a legal observer to the demo (always a good idea anyway). --Macki > I need to talk to a volunteer from San Francisco to help with getting > the permits for next week's event. > > I'm moving out of my house and going up to Burning Man, and I'm > totally unable to manage the permits. I can hook the person up with > the right cops and departments, though, and all they have to do is the > legwork. > > Email is sporadic (moving, etc.) -- please call 415-377-8614 if you > can do this _very_ important job. > > ~ESP > > -- > Evan Prodromou > evan@prodromou.san-francisco.ca.us From rknop at pobox.com Fri Aug 24 06:46:20 2001 From: rknop at pobox.com (Robert Knop) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: Plea bargin fot Dima ?!? In-Reply-To: <20010823215756.49841.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > if everytime a bully bullies everone runs the bully > will keep bullying. Very true-- but that's not the situation here. We have somebody who went out of his way to go to a place where the bullies were waiting for outsiders. If the bullies aren't coming to find you, it's not a matter of running or not running. But you'd learn not to go again to the place where the bullies are hanging out-- why bother? -Rob > > say that fast 5Xs:) > > --- Robert Knop wrote: > > > But he still ends up convicted and will have > > problems ever coming back > > > to the US (assuming he ever wanted to). > > > > Heh. If I were Dmitry Sklyarov, I would *never* > > come back to this > > country. .... From rknop at pobox.com Fri Aug 24 06:49:04 2001 From: rknop at pobox.com (Robert Knop) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What I'd like to see: fixing DMCA and IP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Actually, it would be sufficient to include a unique serial number and > digital signature on every copy you sell. That way if somebody > distributed a large number of copies you could trace them (or if they > filed the serial numbers and signatures off, you could bust anyone in > possession of an unsigned copy, since it's obviously stolen). That's troublesome, because part of "fair-use" rights include making excerpts. It would be very cumbersome of you had to set up a system whereby every conceivable excerpt woudl include the serial number and the signature, and it would be very limiting to the people trying to make the exceprts. (You would have to use only approved signature-maintaining software, and couldn't use the tools of your choice, to make the excerpt.) -Rob From steve at theStarport.org Fri Aug 24 06:54:21 2001 From: steve at theStarport.org (Stephen R. Savitzky) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: Xcott Craver's message of "Fri, 24 Aug 2001 03:39:53 -0400 (EDT)" References: Message-ID: Xcott Craver writes: > On 23 Aug 2001, Stephen R. Savitzky wrote: > > > It's sort of like the Open Content License's option of reserving to the > > author the right to make paper copies. What I want is *not* an "open > > source" type license (which is what's best for software), but something > > in between, that guarantees fair payments to the author and fair use to > > the purchaser. > > Sounds like existing copyright law satisfies your needs. Close. There are some things that go beyond fair use that I want to specifically *permit* (e.g. the right to re-use the tune for another song or modify the lyrics in a way that might not be a true parody -- I belong to a community, science fiction fans, in which this is done a lot and want to specifically encourage it). > Note that I'm not talking about the adoption of a new license, > but of a sort of commitment by a company to stick with the > existing balance that is copyright law. Funny how it can > sometimes be innovative just to stand still. > > So this audio FAT FREE sticker would just mean, "1, we don't > have any watermarks or fingerprints or rip-proofing errors on > this CD. 2, fair use of this CD is not expressly prohibited, > as if we were even allowed to prohibit it. 3., we do not > intend to treat you, pre-emptively, as a criminal." On the whole, though, this is exactly what I want the DRM-free sticker to mean -- I can handle the other stuff in other ways. -- / Steve Savitzky \ 1997 Pegasus Award winner: best science song--+ \ / http://theStarport.com/people/steve/ V \ \ hacker/songwriter: http://theStarport.com/people/steve/Doc/Songs/ \_ Kids' page: MOVED ---> http://Interesting.Places.to/Browse/forKids/ _/ From steve at theStarport.org Fri Aug 24 07:13:04 2001 From: steve at theStarport.org (Stephen R. Savitzky) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: Jeme A Brelin's message of "Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:55:47 -0700 (PDT)" References: Message-ID: Jeme A Brelin writes: > On 23 Aug 2001, Stephen R. Savitzky wrote: > > One of the problems with many of the "open" licenses, [...] > > Um... what you want is standard copyright protection. Basically, yes. > Don't LICENSE your work. Sell it, and you'll get exactly that and nothing > more or less. IANAL, but I seem to remember that, strictly speaking, what one sells is the physical medium and not the copy. What a publisher buys from an author, for example, IS called a license. > > In fact, I'd like to see a license that prohibits distribution in a > > use-restricted format; might be difficult for songs given compulsory > > mechanical licensing (US only, I think), but feasible in other cases. > > As the copyright holder, you can do that by simply not authorizing those > distributions. (with exception for compulsory cases) The authorization, or rather the contract between the author and the publisher that contains the list of what rights are authorized, is called a license. And in some cases I want to pass on some rights to the purchaser that go beyond fair use -- again that requires a license. The GPL and BSD licenses are extreme cases of this -- they are needed because they go well beyond the standard licenses implied by copyright. > I can't believe we've gotten so warped by the corporate licensing of the > past fifteen years that some people have actually forgotten that you can > SELL COPIES and not "license content" and still receive exclusive rights > from the public. This is dead on. The problem, however, is not limited to copyright: you can hardly buy *anything* these days without running across a limited warranty and a batch of warning stickers. It's probably worst for software, though. -- / Steve Savitzky \ 1997 Pegasus Award winner: best science song--+ \ / http://theStarport.com/people/steve/ V \ \ hacker/songwriter: http://theStarport.com/people/steve/Doc/Songs/ \_ Kids' page: MOVED ---> http://Interesting.Places.to/Browse/forKids/ _/ From steve at theStarport.org Fri Aug 24 08:24:05 2001 From: steve at theStarport.org (Stephen R. Savitzky) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What I'd like to see: fixing DMCA and IP In-Reply-To: Robert Knop's message of "Fri, 24 Aug 2001 06:49:04 -0700 (PDT)" References: Message-ID: Robert Knop writes: > > Actually, it would be sufficient to include a unique serial number and > > digital signature on every copy you sell. That way if somebody > > distributed a large number of copies you could trace them (or if they > > filed the serial numbers and signatures off, you could bust anyone in > > possession of an unsigned copy, since it's obviously stolen). > > That's troublesome, because part of "fair-use" rights include making > excerpts. It would be very cumbersome of you had to set up a system > whereby every conceivable excerpt woudl include the serial number and > the signature, and it would be very limiting to the people trying to > make the exceprts. (You would have to use only approved > signature-maintaining software, and couldn't use the tools of your > choice, to make the excerpt.) No it's not -- the signature is intended to prevent large-scale piracy of the entire book. Excerpting is, as you say, fair use and requires no digital signature, only a proper citation. Even if somebody "excerpted" a whole chapter and put it on their web site, I wouldn't object as long as readers could click through to my site and buy the whole book. The digital signature, in other words, is specifically meant to allow the work to be passed around _in plaintext_, allowing for any kind of fair use, while being able to spot blatant abuse. It's just like the clause in most open source licenses that says you can distribute as many copies as you like but you have to keep the copyright notice and disclaimers intact. Putting it another way, a whole-work digital signature on a plaintext file is the _most_ I think a publisher ought to be able to get away with. On second thought, this idea is probably too confusing, and could easily lead to the kind of abuse (on the part of publishers) you're talking about. -- / Steve Savitzky \ 1997 Pegasus Award winner: best science song--+ \ / http://theStarport.com/people/steve/ V \ \ hacker/songwriter: http://theStarport.com/people/steve/Doc/Songs/ \_ Kids' page: MOVED ---> http://Interesting.Places.to/Browse/forKids/ _/ From steve at theStarport.org Fri Aug 24 08:29:51 2001 From: steve at theStarport.org (Stephen R. Savitzky) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A publisher that "gets it" In-Reply-To: Robert Knop's message of "Fri, 24 Aug 2001 06:49:04 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: I found this link on rec.music.filk: http://www.baen.com/library/ Eric Flint's introduction is dead on. Here's the first paragraph: Baen Books is now making available -- for free -- a number of its titles in electronic format. We're calling it the Baen Free Library. Anyone who wishes can read these titles online -- no conditions, no strings attached. (Later we may ask for an extremely simple, name & email only, registration.) Or, if you prefer, you can download the books in one of several formats. Again, with no conditions or strings attached. (URLs to sites which offer the readers for these format are also listed.) Just so there's no mistake, one of the formats offered is HTML; the readers they link to are Netscape and MSIE. They also offer RTF. As I said, these guys get it. -- / Steve Savitzky \ 1997 Pegasus Award winner: best science song--+ \ / http://theStarport.com/people/steve/ V \ \ hacker/songwriter: http://theStarport.com/people/steve/Doc/Songs/ \_ Kids' page: MOVED ---> http://Interesting.Places.to/Browse/forKids/ _/ From dmarti at zgp.org Fri Aug 24 10:10:49 2001 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010824101049.A4253@zgp.org> begin Stephen R. Savitzky quotation of Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 10:42:47PM -0700: > I like this, especially if it can be construed as meaning: "go ahead and > make _fair use_ copies, but don't go selling a million of them". That's exactly what it means. It simply means no "Digital Rights Management" is used in this CD or other product. It implies nothing about copyright or licensing. (Last LinuxWorld we had a game to see who could get the most IBM or Intel employees to wear the stickers.) -- Don Marti What do we want? Free Dmitry! When do we want it? Now! http://zgp.org/~dmarti Free Dmitry: http://eff.org/ dmarti@zgp.org Free the web, burn all GIFs: http://burnallgifs.org/ From wild at eff.org Fri Aug 24 10:16:59 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [DMITRY-PLAN] SF Volunteer Desperately Needed In-Reply-To: <20010824050350.omerta.31346db2cf67.5650.a333e3000554.6144@ rotten.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010824101432.03fa0bc0@pop3.norton.antivirus> At least giving a call as a courtesy to notify the San Francisco police that the protest is going to happen would be wise. There may be a need to redirect traffic if as many people come to the protest as we hope! Aside from isolated problems (Critical Mass incident, Castro incidents, more further back in history), San Francisco police have been very respectful and helpful around protest activities. Acquit Dmitry and Reform the DMCA, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 05:03 AM 8/24/2001 -0700, Macki wrote: >What permits? Are we blocking any streets? No. We don't need any permits >at all. Especially not in SF, I've marched with a hundred people down >market street during rush hour with police escort and no permit and no >problems. If you want a parade permit, it probably takes longer than a >week (besides for being inappropriate). > >I understand the chilling effect that police violence can have on would be >demonstrators, but PLEASE do your research. Needlessly asking the state >for permission before you exercise your free speech rights is not only a >waste of time and energy, but underminds people's confidence in the >legitemacy of our actions. It's sending a message to participants that >what we're doing is some thing other than a perfectly normal and legal >activity that should be commonplace in any democracy, and that it's in >need of prior approval by the police. Yes, it sometimes pays to be >paranoid, but not at the cost of self-censorship and chilling your speech. > >If you're still concerned, contact the National Lawyer's Guild of SF and >ask them to send a legal observer to the demo (always a good idea anyway). > > > --Macki > > > > I need to talk to a volunteer from San Francisco to help with getting > > the permits for next week's event. > > > > I'm moving out of my house and going up to Burning Man, and I'm > > totally unable to manage the permits. I can hook the person up with > > the right cops and departments, though, and all they have to do is the > > legwork. > > > > Email is sporadic (moving, etc.) -- please call 415-377-8614 if you > > can do this _very_ important job. > > > > ~ESP > > > > -- > > Evan Prodromou > > evan@prodromou.san-francisco.ca.us From jeme at brelin.net Fri Aug 24 11:02:48 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 24 Aug 2001, Stephen R. Savitzky wrote: > Jeme A Brelin writes: > > Don't LICENSE your work. Sell it, and you'll get exactly that and nothing > > more or less. > > IANAL, but I seem to remember that, strictly speaking, what one sells > is the physical medium and not the copy. No, you sell copies. Microsoft claims that they're selling the physical medium, but that the copy is licensed... and that's just so much mumbo jumbo to restrict your obvious rights. That's what that "first sale" doctrine is all about. When I buy a copy, I can resell that copy and do whatever I like with it (cut it up and re-arrange the pages and sell it, or even word for word re-arranging and slipping my own words in the margins). First sale clearly shows that you buy a copy. > What a publisher buys from an author, for example, IS called a > license. A publisher doesn't BUY from the author, under normal circumstances. A license isn't something you buy and sell. It's a contract. The contract between an author and his publisher is called a license. This is a transfer of rights. In that way, it's not unlike a driver's license or a hunting license where rights (like driving or killing) exclusively reserved for the public's agencies (government) for the protection of the common good are transfered to you, an individual, in the form of a license. > And in some cases I want to pass on some rights to the purchaser that > go beyond fair use -- again that requires a license. The GPL and BSD > licenses are extreme cases of this -- they are needed because they go > well beyond the standard licenses implied by copyright. Actually, I'm pretty sure you don't need a formal license to confer some of your exclusive rights reserved via copyright back to the public. That is to say, if the party on the far end doesn't have to give up anything more than the law demands, then you don't have to get their consent. That is to say, they don't have to agree to it, so it's not really a license, per se. As for authors and publishers, the author extends some of his exclusive rights of use of a work to a publisher and the publisher remits money and services. This is a two-way street and both are party. In commercial software, the publisher forces the user to give up some of his non-exclusive rights of use of a work purchased and the publisher doesn't have to give up anything at all. You just want to reverse that. You can do so with a statement that isn't a license. Something to the following tune: I hereby allow the general public to make non-commercial use of my words and music and share such use with their friends and community. This statement is not intended to relinquish any exclusive rights retained by me, the author, with regard to commercial or mass distribution of more than 100 copies. Something like that. But I'm not a lawyer, either. > > I can't believe we've gotten so warped by the corporate licensing of the > > past fifteen years that some people have actually forgotten that you can > > SELL COPIES and not "license content" and still receive exclusive rights > > from the public. > > This is dead on. The problem, however, is not limited to copyright: > you can hardly buy *anything* these days without running across a > limited warranty and a batch of warning stickers. It's probably worst > for software, though. But you don't BUY software, these days. Warnings and limited warranties are fine because they don't imply that you must give up any of your rights and privileges guaranteed by the public as a whole. The problem arises when you must sign something or make some other public acknowledgement that you're giving up your humanity for the sake of commerce. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From kmself at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 24 11:19:02 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: <20010823155805.N20399@zgp.org>; from dmarti@zgp.org on Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 03:58:05PM -0700 References: <20010823155805.N20399@zgp.org> Message-ID: <20010824111902.G2165@navel.introspect> on Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 03:58:05PM -0700, Don Marti (dmarti@zgp.org) wrote: > begin Xcott Craver quotation of Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 06:39:40PM -0400: > > > Finally, you want there to be a commercial incentive for > > smaller companies to reject DRM. Hence visibility in the form of > > a sticker or logo, bragging that this CD is better. Think > > of it as the music equivalent of a "FAT FREE" label. > > Lydia Kinata did this one: > http://zgp.org/~dmarti/open_logo/ > > It could also be used for non-DRM players, sound cards, media, you > name it. Note that positive labling (e.g.: open media on non-DRM packaging) is a much easier sell than negative labling (e.g.: this recording rapes your First Amendment and common-law contract First Sale rights). It's the same battle that's been going on in the food biz for ages: fat free, sugar free, organic, and no preservatives lables proliferate. We don't see "fat laden", "sugar loaded", "pesticide laced" and "preservative soupe" labling. Only in the very extreme case (tobacco and alchohol products in the US) are negative lables applied, and these only at extreme political pressure. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010824/22a3a7ee/attachment.pgp From kmself at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 24 11:35:38 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What I'd like to see: fixing DMCA and IP In-Reply-To: ; from steve@theStarport.org on Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 07:49:01AM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010824113538.H2165@navel.introspect> on Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 07:49:01AM -0700, Stephen R. Savitzky (steve@theStarport.org) wrote: > I'd like to see it made illegal to sell, distribute, traffic in, > etc. any file format or software that *prevents* fair use of > legitimately purchased copyrighted material, that prevents such material > from reverting to the public domain when its copyright has expired, or > that restricts in any way the use of public domain material. I wouldn't. As noted, this produces serious problems where encryption is applied. Would you hold that there are no privacy rights for encrypted materials, or that there is no time after which those privacy rights are exhausted? I'd prefer returning to the situation prior to the passage of the DMCA. It's possible to apply DRM to media, however, there are no bars on utilizing first amendment rights (e.g.: reverse engineering, applied crypto circ) to practicing Fair Use and other rights. I've also argued that, should the DMCA continue in force, publishers have an obligation to provide "best edition" forms of their works on request that Fair Use rights might be exercised. One possibility is that this could be managed through the US Copyright Office, at the Library of Congress, by revising copyright regulation requirements. A requirement that mandated registration for any 1201 claims to be raised, and required that such registrations be in a non-copy-protected form, which would then be made generally available to the public through the library's normal lending practices, would pull most of the teeth out of the DMCA. We'd be left with a hollow law whose primary effects are a criminalization of crypto research, far easier to knock down. > I'd like to see compulsory mechanical licensing for works distributed > electronically, at the same rate per copy as works distributed on > physical media. [This ought to be extended to compensate performers as > well as authors.] > > (For those unfamiliar with the way things work in the music industry, > compulsory licensing means that anyone can perform a song, record it, > and sell copies: they owe the author and publisher about US$0.065 > each. Compensating authors and publishers for electronic distribution > has been a solved problem since 1910, when ASCAP was founded.) Similar to what I'm suggesting above. > I'd like to see the term of copyright protection reduced to something > reasonable, e.g., the same term as a patent. There's strong economic evidence to suggest that the original terms of copyright -- 14 years, possible extension -- are about on the money, give or take ten years. Which puts us in about patent territory (currently 20 years from filing, US). There's little practical market for any materials over 5 years old, numbers I've seen say 90-95% of all media works sold are newer. Stephen Breyer (Supreme Court Justice) wrote an interesting law review article ~1972 titled "The Uneasy Case for Copyright" in which he argues for doing away with the notion altogether. Some evidence (the French Revolution's anarchic era) suggests this isn't the ultimate solution. Clearly though, life plus 90 years is an utterly unreasonable amount of time, has no economic basis in present-value terms, and is an unconcionable distortion of the Constitutional mandate "to authors...for limited times". > I'd like to see an international treaty that prohibits any > juristiction from applying its laws to individuals who are breaking no > law at their own physical location. Call it Dmitry's Law. How about calling it Al Megrahi's Law? [1] > Maybe the next step is a "Universal Declaration of [*] Rights" > comparable to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. [*] I don't > know what word best fills this slot; suggestions will be gratefully > accepted. "Speech". -------------------- Note: 1. If that's too obscure, try The Lockerbie Doctrine. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010824/78bab47a/attachment.pgp From badnewsbears at prodigy.net Fri Aug 24 12:01:47 2001 From: badnewsbears at prodigy.net (Yogi) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What I'd like to see: fixing DMCA and IP References: Message-ID: <005001c12ccf$3b434000$73f2fea9@n6y3p0> The message I originally replied to contained (in part): I'd like to see it made illegal to sell, distribute, traffic in, > > etc. any file format or software that *prevents* fair use of > > legitimately purchased copyrighted material, that prevents such material > > from reverting to the public domain when its copyright has expired, or > > that restricts in any way the use of public domain material They say, "Any time you turn to law, you have a wolf by the ear." IMHO, less is better when it comes to government regulation. The DMCA is a good example. -Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeme A Brelin" To: "Yogi" Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] What I'd like to see: fixing DMCA and IP > > On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, Yogi wrote: > > You might want to be careful what you wish for...;-) > > What do you mean? This seems pretty ideal to me. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jeme A Brelin" > > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] What I'd like to see: fixing DMCA and IP > > > > > > I've come to a similar conclusion that works like this: > > > > > > PUBLISHING requires making a work available in a usable format; > > > documented, standardized, unrestricted by patent, access keys, or > > > physically scarce devices. > > > > > > If you publish, you get copyright protection (slightly more of the > > > public's rights are retained than today, however). > > > > > > You are free to ALSO distribute in a closed format, but you cannot make an > > > infringement claim without PROVING that the infringing copies were made > > > from the "cleartext" work. That is to say, copies made from > > > "circumvention" are not infringing. > > -- > ----------------- > Jeme A Brelin > jeme@brelin.net > ----------------- > [cc] counter-copyright > http://www.openlaw.org > From badnewsbears at prodigy.net Fri Aug 24 12:05:42 2001 From: badnewsbears at prodigy.net (Yogi) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: Plea bargin fot Dima ?!? Message-ID: <006301c12ccf$c6d3b460$73f2fea9@n6y3p0> As I understand it, plea of nolo contendre (no contest) *is*, for most purposes, functionally equivalent to a guilty plea, but without admission of civil liability. The distinction is purely technical. It goes on his record as a conviction and will follow him around forever. -Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher R. Maden" To: "alfee cube" Cc: Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 3:02 PM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] RE: Plea bargin fot Dima ?!? > At 15:04 23-08-2001, alfee cube wrote: > >in this instance your distiction is without a > >difference - it might matter, say if you anticipate > >civil liability, too. > > ? A no contest plea is not an admission of guilt. This is important > because (a) in the long run, it means that the DMCA did *not* convict > anyone on criminal charges, and (b) it means that he won't necessarily be > barred from returning to the US in the future, unless that's explicitly > part of the sentence. > > -crism > -- > David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. > > === Freelance Text Nerd: === > PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010824/9fed6530/attachment.html From crism at maden.org Fri Aug 24 12:05:37 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A publisher that "gets it" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010824120228.00a58300@mail.maden.org> At 08:29 24-08-2001, Stephen R. Savitzky wrote: >I found this link on rec.music.filk: http://www.baen.com/library/ >Eric Flint's introduction is dead on. Here's the first paragraph: > >Just so there's no mistake, one of the formats offered is HTML; the >readers they link to are Netscape and MSIE. They also offer RTF. > >As I said, these guys get it. They've actually been doing this for a while. And the interesting thing is that the free ebooks have *not* cannibalized their print sales; the titles for which the ebooks are available have sold better than those without, on average. So this definitely shows that, for dual-media publishers, fewer restrictions are better business. It's still an open question, to some degree, how well this works for publishers that *only* publish electronically. Baen has the paper channel to make money, but if you are only distributing ebooks with no DRM, then there is at least the potential that rampant copying costs you real money. To bring this back on-topic, though: most of Adobe's ebook customers, as I understand it, are Big Publishers, issuing ebook editions of works they have in print. They have no excuse. -crism -- Christopher R. Maden, XML Consultant DTDs/schemas - conversion - ebooks - publishing - Web - B2B - training PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From badnewsbears at prodigy.net Fri Aug 24 12:15:46 2001 From: badnewsbears at prodigy.net (Yogi) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ok, i was willing to buy the flight risk line References: <20010824065509.17194.qmail@web13102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <009901c12cd1$352b4620$73f2fea9@n6y3p0> Not a "flight risk?" Seems to me that's *exactly* what the stuntman was :-))) (Sorry, I couldn't help it) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Callahan" To: Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 11:55 PM Subject: [free-sklyarov] ok, i was willing to buy the flight risk line > ...but, and I realize this is a little off topic, we have some guy > from France making an ass of himself around the Statue of Liberty > and endangering the lives of people who have to come and > rescue him: > > http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/08/23/statue.parasail/index.html > > This is a unambiguous offense committed on US soil. This knucklehead > is > immediately out on bail (passport confiscated--making it harder to > leave the country) unlike Sklyarov who was in Federal custody > for weeks. Nobody called the stuntman a "flight risk" despite > the fact that his home is in France. > > Can someone please explain why Sklyarov was more of a flight risk > than this person? > > OK, is itbecause it's a misdemeanor offense to selfishly > misdirect valuable safety resources (not to mention potentially > damaging a national monument) whereas "circumventing" a poorly > designed encryption system by writing a program on a computer > in Russia is a "felony" under DMCA? That's about all I can figure. > Or maybe French are treated better than Russians in this country? > > Seriously, I'd be interested in a legal analysis from > someone who can speak authoritatively. Clearly, it is *not* the > case that foreign nationals are routinely denied bail in the US as > "flight risks." I was more or less bamboozled into thinking this > *was* the case after hearing the official explanations for > Sklyarov's initial bail status. > > Let me repeat: Clearly, it is *not* the case that foreign nationals > are routinely denied bail in the US as flight risks. Dmitry was > treated badly. Anyone want to convince me otherwise? > > --Paul > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From ben at kalifornia.com Fri Aug 24 15:27:17 2001 From: ben at kalifornia.com (Ben Ford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A publisher that "gets it" References: Message-ID: <3B86D4C5.3060804@kalifornia.com> Stephen R. Savitzky wrote: >As I said, these guys get it. > Here is also another paragraph which I think is dead on. Bear in mind that I know on a personal level many people engaging in software/video/audio "piracy", and this describes most of their motivations exactly. The only time that /mass scale /petty thievery becomes a problem is when the perception spreads, among broad layers of the population, that a given product is priced artificially high due to monopolistic practices and/or draconian legislation designed to protect those practices. But so long as the "gap" between the price of a legal product and a stolen one remains both small and, in the eyes of most people, a legitimate cost rather than gouging, 99% of them will prefer the legal product. -b From crism at maden.org Fri Aug 24 17:45:27 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] _Alice_ read aloud Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010824174304.00a48d90@mail.maden.org> The publisher of the Adobe eBook edition of _Alice in Wonderland_ posted this explanation to The eBook Community mailing list, forwarded without permission and without comment: >To: ebook-community@yahoogroups.com >From: pete@suba.com >Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:55:15 -0600 >Subject: [ebook-community] RE: Various > >[Michael Hart's WEB-LAW reference to the Anti-DMCA Index] >"26. Number of restrictions placed on 'Alice in Wonderland' (public domain) >eBook: 5 > >I guess I would like to reiterate that this version of Alice is not public >domain but is a unique new work and copyrightable. My work on recapturing >Carroll's exact typography and design was probably more exhaustive than his >original work. It's copyrighted for that reason. But since the original >work involved far more than just typography, I give it away as a tribute to >Carroll's contribution. Since my work can't easily be detached from >Carroll's in this form, my copyright gives me the right to control its use, >but I keep it open. I certainly did not ask that the "Read Aloud" >restriction be set on it, and Adobe has said that it was an accident in >this case. > >Peter Zelchenko (pete@suba.com) Chicago, Illinois From ben at kalifornia.com Fri Aug 24 20:40:27 2001 From: ben at kalifornia.com (Ben Ford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] _Alice_ read aloud References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010824174304.00a48d90@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <3B871E2B.9010009@kalifornia.com> Christopher R. Maden wrote: > The publisher of the Adobe eBook edition of _Alice in Wonderland_ > posted this explanation to The eBook Community mailing list, forwarded > without permission and without comment: > >> To: ebook-community@yahoogroups.com >> From: pete@suba.com >> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:55:15 -0600 >> Subject: [ebook-community] RE: Various >> >> [Michael Hart's WEB-LAW reference to the Anti-DMCA Index] >> "26. Number of restrictions placed on 'Alice in Wonderland' (public >> domain) >> eBook: 5 >> >> I guess I would like to reiterate that this version of Alice is not >> public >> domain but is a unique new work and copyrightable. My work on >> recapturing >> Carroll's exact typography and design was probably more exhaustive >> than his >> original work. It's copyrighted for that reason. But since the original > This is BS, if you ask me. Who reads a book for the typography? Besides, that's just like code. If I write a program then you come along and reformat it, colorize it, change indent style, etc. It is _still_ my work! -b From joe at pjprimer.com Fri Aug 24 20:46:58 2001 From: joe at pjprimer.com (Joe Barr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] _Alice_ read aloud In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010824174304.00a48d90@mail.maden.org> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010824174304.00a48d90@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <20010824224658.21d1cf77.joe@pjprimer.com> He can copyright Alice in Wonderland because he used a new font? On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:45:27 -0700 "Christopher R. Maden" wrote: > The publisher of the Adobe eBook edition of _Alice in Wonderland_ posted > this explanation to The eBook Community mailing list, forwarded without > permission and without comment: > > >To: ebook-community@yahoogroups.com > >From: pete@suba.com > >Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:55:15 -0600 > >Subject: [ebook-community] RE: Various > > > >[Michael Hart's WEB-LAW reference to the Anti-DMCA Index] > >"26. Number of restrictions placed on 'Alice in Wonderland' (public domain) > >eBook: 5 > > > >I guess I would like to reiterate that this version of Alice is not public > >domain but is a unique new work and copyrightable. My work on recapturing > >Carroll's exact typography and design was probably more exhaustive than his > >original work. It's copyrighted for that reason. But since the original > >work involved far more than just typography, I give it away as a tribute to > >Carroll's contribution. Since my work can't easily be detached from > >Carroll's in this form, my copyright gives me the right to control its use, > >but I keep it open. I certainly did not ask that the "Read Aloud" > >restriction be set on it, and Adobe has said that it was an accident in > >this case. > > > >Peter Zelchenko (pete@suba.com) Chicago, Illinois > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > -- #===================================================================# # More dead people have written in support of Microsoft against the # # DOJ than any other single group, leading UMSA (United MS Shills # # of America) President Steve Barkto to lodge a formal complaint. # #===================================================================# From jono at microshaft.org Fri Aug 24 21:11:13 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] _Alice_ read aloud In-Reply-To: <20010824224658.21d1cf77.joe@pjprimer.com>; from joe@pjprimer.com on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 10:46:58PM -0500 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010824174304.00a48d90@mail.maden.org> <20010824224658.21d1cf77.joe@pjprimer.com> Message-ID: <20010824211113.B6582@networkcommand.com> This is really nuts. I'm going to get me some fonts and take over... This is what I posted to the yahoo board: > [Michael Hart's WEB-LAW reference to the Anti-DMCA Index] > "26. Number of restrictions placed on 'Alice in Wonderland' (public domain) > eBook: 5 > > I guess I would like to reiterate that this version of Alice is not public > domain but is a unique new work and copyrightable. My work on recapturing > Carroll's exact typography and design was probably more exhaustive than his > original work. It's copyrighted for that reason. But since the original > work involved far more than just typography, I give it away as a tribute to > Carroll's contribution. Since my work can't easily be detached from > Carroll's in this form, my copyright gives me the right to control its use, > but I keep it open. I certainly did not ask that the "Read Aloud" > restriction be set on it, and Adobe has said that it was an accident in > this case. This is very interesting and I'm not sure I understand entirely. From your example above, it would seem that certain typographical changes actually create new ownership of a work. This is hard for me to understand. Does this apply only to public domain books? Meaning, can I provide typographical enhancements to a public domain book and therefore create new copyright? If this is true, I can see many designers suddenly restoring books digitally with typographical enhancements and claiming ownership. Also, how can the act of *recapturing* be "more exhaustive" than the original itself? Isn't the original what is being recaptured not an enhancement? From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Fri Aug 24 21:19:20 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] _Alice_ read aloud In-Reply-To: <20010824211113.B6582@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: The use of new fonts, new graphics, new cover art, etc., does not restore or transfer or grant a new copyright in the now public domain work. It does, however, create a new work. And if you were to make printing plates of the new work, with the new fonts, and new graphics and new cover art and were to create knockoff books just like those, you would violate the new copyright. But the text which has passed into the public domain, remains in the public domain. James S. Huggins From steve at theStarport.org Fri Aug 24 21:22:39 2001 From: steve at theStarport.org (Stephen R. Savitzky) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright as a restriction In-Reply-To: Jeme A Brelin's message of "Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:02:48 -0700 (PDT)" References: Message-ID: Jeme A Brelin writes: > On 24 Aug 2001, Stephen R. Savitzky wrote: > > Jeme A Brelin writes: > > > Don't LICENSE your work. Sell it, and you'll get exactly that and nothing > > > more or less. > > > > IANAL, but I seem to remember that, strictly speaking, what one sells > > is the physical medium and not the copy. > > No, you sell copies. Microsoft claims that they're selling the physical > medium, but that the copy is licensed... and that's just so much mumbo > jumbo to restrict your obvious rights. You're probably right. As you say, > First sale clearly shows that you buy a copy. > > > What a publisher buys from an author, for example, IS called a > > license. > > A publisher doesn't BUY from the author, under normal circumstances. > > A license isn't something you buy and sell. It's a contract. The > contract between an author and his publisher is called a license. This is > a transfer of rights. OK, the publisher pays a fee and obtains a contract granting (not necessarily transferring, unless the publisher gets *exclusive* rights) some rights. Whether one calls this a sale or something else is probably academic. > Actually, I'm pretty sure you don't need a formal license to confer some > of your exclusive rights reserved via copyright back to the public. It may not be formal, but I think it's still a kind of license. > In commercial software, the publisher forces the user to give up some of > his non-exclusive rights of use of a work purchased and the publisher > doesn't have to give up anything at all. > > You just want to reverse that. You can do so with a statement that isn't > a license. > > Something to the following tune: > > I hereby allow the general public to make non-commercial use of my words > and music and share such use with their friends and community. This > statement is not intended to relinquish any exclusive rights retained by > me, the author, with regard to commercial or mass distribution of more > than 100 copies. > > Something like that. > > But I'm not a lawyer, either. Something like that, indeed. -- / Steve Savitzky \ 1997 Pegasus Award winner: best science song--+ \ / http://theStarport.com/people/steve/ V \ \ hacker/songwriter: http://theStarport.com/people/steve/Doc/Songs/ \_ Kids' page: MOVED ---> http://Interesting.Places.to/Browse/forKids/ _/ From steve at theStarport.org Fri Aug 24 21:58:09 2001 From: steve at theStarport.org (Stephen R. Savitzky) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What I'd like to see: fixing DMCA and IP In-Reply-To: "Karsten M. Self"'s message of "Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:35:38 -0700" References: <20010824113538.H2165@navel.introspect> Message-ID: "Karsten M. Self" writes: > on Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 07:49:01AM -0700, Stephen R. Savitzky (steve@theSta= > rport.org) wrote: > > I'd like to see it made illegal to sell, distribute, traffic in, > > etc. any file format or software that *prevents* fair use of > > legitimately purchased copyrighted material, that prevents such material > > from reverting to the public domain when its copyright has expired, or > > that restricts in any way the use of public domain material. > > I wouldn't. As noted, this produces serious problems where encryption > is applied. Would you hold that there are no privacy rights for > encrypted materials, or that there is no time after which those privacy > rights are exhausted? I think I phrased that wrong. What I really meant was selling copies of copyrighted material in a format, or requiring a dedicated reader, that prevents fair use. > I'd prefer returning to the situation prior to the passage of the DMCA. > It's possible to apply DRM to media, however, there are no bars on > utilizing first amendment rights (e.g.: reverse engineering, applied > crypto circ) to practicing Fair Use and other rights. > > I've also argued that, should the DMCA continue in force, publishers > have an obligation to provide "best edition" forms of their works on > request that Fair Use rights might be exercised. That would do it. > > I'd like to see compulsory mechanical licensing for works distributed > > electronically, at the same rate per copy as works distributed on > > physical media. [This ought to be extended to compensate performers as > > well as authors.] > > Similar to what I'm suggesting above. Not exactly. What it says is that anyone could distribute the material as long as the author gets paid. If Napster had paid the appropriate fees to ASCAP and BMI, the publishers would have been in a much worse position. > > I'd like to see the term of copyright protection reduced to something > > reasonable, e.g., the same term as a patent. > > There's strong economic evidence to suggest that the original terms of > copyright -- 14 years, possible extension -- are about on the money, > give or take ten years. Which puts us in about patent territory > (currently 20 years from filing, US). More or less. I'd be tempted to say "same term as a patent, non-renewable, or the life of the author, whichever is greater". > There's little practical market for any materials over 5 years old, > numbers I've seen say 90-95% of all media works sold are newer. Largely true, though there are a couple of cash cows in any genre that just go on and on ("Happy Birthday" and _Snow White_ come to mind). > Clearly though, life plus 90 years is an utterly unreasonable amount of > time, has no economic basis in present-value terms, and is an > unconcionable distortion of the Constitutional mandate "to authors...for > limited times". Yes. > > I'd like to see an international treaty that prohibits any > > juristiction from applying its laws to individuals who are breaking no > > law at their own physical location. Call it Dmitry's Law. > > How about calling it Al Megrahi's Law? [1] > 1. If that's too obscure, try The Lockerbie Doctrine. Needs more detail, then. I had in mind primarily acts of speech. > > Maybe the next step is a "Universal Declaration of [*] Rights" > > comparable to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. [*] I don't > > know what word best fills this slot; suggestions will be gratefully > > accepted. =20 > > "Speech". I've also thought of "electronic" or "Intellectual". The latter is nice because "Intellectual Rights" balances the current nonsense of "Intellectual Property". -- / Steve Savitzky \ 1997 Pegasus Award winner: best science song--+ \ / http://theStarport.com/people/steve/ V \ \ hacker/songwriter: http://theStarport.com/people/steve/Doc/Songs/ \_ Kids' page: MOVED ---> http://Interesting.Places.to/Browse/forKids/ _/ From wiljan at pobox.com Fri Aug 24 21:58:00 2001 From: wiljan at pobox.com (Will Janoschka) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] _Alice_ read aloud Message-ID: <200108250535.AAA000.34@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> James S. Huggins said: > The use of new fonts, new graphics, new cover art, etc., does not restore or > transfer or grant a new copyright in the now public domain work. > It does, however, create a new work. >Peter Zelchenko (pete@suba.com) Chicago, Illinois claims: >>I guess I would like to reiterate that this version of Alice is not >>public domain but is a unique new work and copyrightable. -snip- Looks "like copyright misuse" to me. >>Since my work can't easily be detached from Carroll's in this form, >>my copyright gives me the right to control its use, but I keep it open. -snip- What part of copyright law allows him privilege of control after sale? Note from the web: Peter Zelchenko is president and CTO of VolumeOne, a Chicago-based research and development company focusing on on-demand printing of books and electronic publishing. He has been involved in electronic and print media publishing and design for 25 years. From ca2027001 at sneakemail.com Fri Aug 24 18:57:41 2001 From: ca2027001 at sneakemail.com (ca2027001@sneakemail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] _Alice_ read aloud Message-ID: <134788923.998719072346.JavaMail.root@boots> >My work on recapturing Carroll's exact typography and >design was probably more exhaustive than his original >work. It's copyrighted for that reason This begs the question that if he "recaptured" the "original" typography -- isn't it the "original typography" and "exact design" that's a hundred years old and in the public domain?!?! How can it be "more exhaustive" if it's an "exact" copy of the original?!? Phillip K. From roo at ufies.org Fri Aug 24 23:09:17 2001 From: roo at ufies.org (Benjamin Krueger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] _Alice_ read aloud In-Reply-To: <200108250535.AAA000.34@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> References: <200108250535.AAA000.34@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> Message-ID: <20010824230917.B24127@ufies.org> I think the key point that this individual must be made aware of is that he has not created a new and unique work. This project is clearly and unarguably a derivative work. Further, this work is extremely easy to detach from Carroll's original work. They're goddamned words, and the formatting of the words does not change their meaning. Bottom line, this is not a unique work. Ask this fellow to try his little trick with a Harlequin novel, or one of the Harry Potter books, and try to copyright it as a "new and unique work". Or maybe a Disney book; I'm sure their lawyers would have a field day. Email me after he loses the lawsuit. Benjamin Krueger Seattle, Wa On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 10:58:00PM -0600, Will Janoschka wrote: > James S. Huggins said: > > > The use of new fonts, new graphics, new cover art, etc., does not restore or > > transfer or grant a new copyright in the now public domain work. > > > It does, however, create a new work. > > >Peter Zelchenko (pete@suba.com) Chicago, Illinois claims: > > >>I guess I would like to reiterate that this version of Alice is not > >>public domain but is a unique new work and copyrightable. > -snip- > Looks "like copyright misuse" to me. > > >>Since my work can't easily be detached from Carroll's in this form, > >>my copyright gives me the right to control its use, but I keep it open. > -snip- > > What part of copyright law allows him privilege of control after sale? > > Note from the web: > > Peter Zelchenko is president and CTO of VolumeOne, > a Chicago-based research and development company focusing > on on-demand printing of books and electronic publishing. > He has been involved in electronic and print media > publishing and design for 25 years. > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jono at microshaft.org Fri Aug 24 23:31:20 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] _Alice_ read aloud In-Reply-To: <20010824230917.B24127@ufies.org>; from roo@ufies.org on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 11:09:17PM -0700 References: <200108250535.AAA000.34@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> <20010824230917.B24127@ufies.org> Message-ID: <20010824233120.C6582@networkcommand.com> Yes, I think you've got something here... Furthermore, The Project Gutenberg License states: DISTRIBUTION UNDER "PROJECT GUTENBERG-tm" You may distribute copies of this etext electronically, or by disk, book or any other medium if... The etext may be readily converted by the reader at no expense into plain ASCII, EBCDIC or equivalent form by the program that displays the etext (as is the case, for instance, with most word processors); OR [*] You provide, or agree to also provide on request at no additional cost, fee or expense, a copy of the etext in its original plain ASCII form (or in EBCDIC or other equivalent proprietary form). So, not only do we have a derivative, but as it states above, restrictions which are not part of the gutenberg license. I've snipped parts, you should check the whole license: ftp://ibiblio.org/pub/docs/books/gutenberg/etext97/alice30h.htm There is a big "OR" in the license after an "if" and it may be confusing... On 24-Aug-2001, Benjamin Krueger wrote: > I think the key point that this individual must be made aware of is that he > has not created a new and unique work. This project is clearly and unarguably > a derivative work. Further, this work is extremely easy to detach from > Carroll's original work. They're goddamned words, and the formatting of the > words does not change their meaning. > > Bottom line, this is not a unique work. Ask this fellow to try his little > trick with a Harlequin novel, or one of the Harry Potter books, and try to > copyright it as a "new and unique work". Or maybe a Disney book; I'm sure > their lawyers would have a field day. Email me after he loses the lawsuit. > > Benjamin Krueger > Seattle, Wa > > On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 10:58:00PM -0600, Will Janoschka wrote: > > James S. Huggins said: > > > > > The use of new fonts, new graphics, new cover art, etc., does not restore or > > > transfer or grant a new copyright in the now public domain work. > > > > > It does, however, create a new work. > > > > >Peter Zelchenko (pete@suba.com) Chicago, Illinois claims: > > > > >>I guess I would like to reiterate that this version of Alice is not > > >>public domain but is a unique new work and copyrightable. > > -snip- > > Looks "like copyright misuse" to me. > > > > >>Since my work can't easily be detached from Carroll's in this form, > > >>my copyright gives me the right to control its use, but I keep it open. > > -snip- > > > > What part of copyright law allows him privilege of control after sale? > > > > Note from the web: > > > > Peter Zelchenko is president and CTO of VolumeOne, > > a Chicago-based research and development company focusing > > on on-demand printing of books and electronic publishing. > > He has been involved in electronic and print media > > publishing and design for 25 years. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From tom at lemuria.org Sat Aug 25 00:56:25 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] _Alice_ read aloud In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010824174304.00a48d90@mail.maden.org>; from crism@maden.org on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 05:45:27PM -0700 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010824174304.00a48d90@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <20010825095625.B17529@lemuria.org> On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 05:45:27PM -0700, Christopher R. Maden wrote: > >I guess I would like to reiterate that this version of Alice is not public > >domain but is a unique new work and copyrightable. My work on recapturing > >Carroll's exact typography and design was probably more exhaustive than his > >original work. It's copyrighted for that reason. But since the original that sounds pretty dubious to me. yes, it may have been a ton of work, but if he's only been reconstruction the work's original "look and feel", then I fail to see where the creative addition is that would justify considering it as a new work. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sat Aug 25 08:01:12 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] _Alice_ read aloud In-Reply-To: <20010825095625.B17529@lemuria.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 05:45:27PM -0700, Christopher R. Maden wrote: > >I guess I would like to reiterate that this version of Alice is not public > >domain but is a unique new work and copyrightable. My work on recapturing > >Carroll's exact typography and design was probably more exhaustive than his > >original work. It's copyrighted for that reason. But since the original While I might agree that the new version is a new work and is copyrightable, I would disagree that the words are copyrightable. Any restriction on reading the words seems inappropriate for me because the words are public domain. James S. Huggins From kmself at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 25 09:04:38 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] _Alice_ read aloud In-Reply-To: ; from FreeSklyarov@ZName.com on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 11:19:20PM -0500 References: <20010824211113.B6582@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010825090438.F10128@navel.introspect> on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 11:19:20PM -0500, James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov) (FreeSklyarov@ZName.com) wrote: > > The use of new fonts, new graphics, new cover art, etc., does not > restore or transfer or grant a new copyright in the now public domain > work. Problem with the present case is that the argument is that a significant amount of work was performed _recreating the original author's typography and design_. Copyright is endowed in "original works of authorship". Research and restoration is neither orginal nor authorship. It is "sweat of the brow", but this has been refused as a basis for endowing copyright in Rural Electric v. Feist. > It does, however, create a new work. But this doesn't appear to be the case here. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010825/44d54583/attachment.pgp From wiljan at pobox.com Sat Aug 25 10:36:06 2001 From: wiljan at pobox.com (Will Janoschka) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] _Alice_ read aloud Message-ID: <200108251714.MAA000.48@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> on Sat, 25 Aug 2001 09:04:38 Karsten M. Self wrote: >on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 11:19:20PM -0500, James S. Huggins wrote: >> The use of new fonts, new graphics, new cover art, etc., does not >> restore or transfer or grant a new copyright in the now public domain >> work. >Problem with the present case is that the argument is that a significant >amount of work was performed _recreating the original author's >typography and design_. >Copyright is endowed in "original works of authorship". Research and >restoration is neither orginal nor authorship. It is "sweat of the >brow", but this has been refused as a basis for endowing copyright in >Rural Electric v. Feist. >> It does, however, create a new work. >But this doesn't appear to be the case here. In regard to "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland" by Lewis Carroll, with original illustrations by Sir John Tenniel, there are at least 4 different "owners of copyright" registered with the copyright office since 1970. Peter Zelchinko and VolumeOne Press is not among them. How does one register a copyright on a "work" (e-book) with a 'technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner'? Does the copyright office only get to view "premium content" on one Winblows machine? What is a best edition of an e-book? -will-:@) From huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com Sat Aug 25 12:04:34 2001 From: huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com (Huaiyu Zhu) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] _Alice_ read aloud Message-ID: He is confused on at least three points. 1. A new typography on a public domain work may be copyrightable for that new part, but nothing more. Just like if you draw a new illustration and publish it with some existing text, you have copyright on the illustration but not on the text. So theoretically he could copyright his work in the sense of an artistic replica of a piece of antique, but at most in that sense. 2. It is a false claim that the new work is not easily detached from the original. If it is transfered to any other font, it is separated from his new font. Or it could be extracted to plain text. Or simply read aloud. If he does not provide means for users to separate these two aspects of the work, he is selling a defective product - claiming to be a book but really only a piece of decoration. DMCA puts the control in the hands of publishers, so he has a moral and contractual obligation to provide them free of charge. Otherwise he is like selling photographic films that could only be developed using illegal substances banned from any existing photoshops. 3. If his new font actually replicates the original, he might have no copyright on it after all. He could patent the electronic means of producing such a font. He could copyright the paramters used in this process (such as the font metrics). But certainly not the end result if it is the same as the original. If he write a paper about this process, he has copyright on the paper. These copyrights or patents in no way extends to the original text or typography or design. I was ready to believe that all this "read aloud" stuff was a fluke accident. His clarification now casts a much darker shadow over it. Huaiyu Zhu >To: ebook-community@yahoogroups.com >From: pete@suba.com >Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:55:15 -0600 >Subject: [ebook-community] RE: Various >I guess I would like to reiterate that this version of Alice is not >public domain but is a unique new work and copyrightable. My work on >recapturing Carroll's exact typography and design was probably more >exhaustive than his original work. It's copyrighted for that >reason. But since the original work involved far more than just >typography, I give it away as a tribute to Carroll's >contribution. Since my work can't easily be detached from Carroll's in >this form, my copyright gives me the right to control its use, but I >keep it open. I certainly did not ask that the "Read Aloud" restriction >be set on it, and Adobe has said that it was an accident in this case. > >Peter Zelchenko (pete@suba.com) Chicago, Illinois From wiljan at pobox.com Sat Aug 25 14:53:22 2001 From: wiljan at pobox.com (Will Janoschka) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] _Alice_ read aloud Message-ID: <200108252108.QAA000.50@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> Sat, 25 Aug 2001 12:04:34 Huaiyu Zhu huaiyu_zhu@yahoo.com wrote: >He is confused on at least three points. >1. A new typography on a public domain work may be copyrightable for >that new part, but nothing more. Just like if you draw a new >illustration and publish it with some existing text, you have >copyright on the illustration but not on the text. So theoretically >he could copyright his work in the sense of an artistic replica of a >piece of antique, but at most in that sense. >2. It is a false claim that the new work is not easily detached from >the original. If it is transfered to any other font, it is separated >from his new font. Or it could be extracted to plain text. -snip- Since PDF is a raster format everything appears mixed, like pictures, and hard to separate. If you you could convert back to PDF and then use an undamaged PDF reader, like Ghostscript, the text could easily be extracted. That would be the deadly "circumvention" however. From tom at lemuria.org Sat Aug 25 14:19:07 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] _Alice_ read aloud In-Reply-To: <200108252108.QAA000.50@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net>; from wiljan@pobox.com on Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 03:53:22PM -0600 References: <200108252108.QAA000.50@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> Message-ID: <20010825231906.A869@lemuria.org> On Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 03:53:22PM -0600, Will Janoschka wrote: > Since PDF is a raster format everything appears mixed, like pictures, > and hard to separate. If you you could convert back to PDF and then > use an undamaged PDF reader, like Ghostscript, the text could easily > be extracted. That would be the deadly "circumvention" however. unless I'm mistaken, the gutenberg license REQUIRES that an ASCII version is available... -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From andrea at gravitt.org Sat Aug 25 15:12:59 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dragoncon (Atlanta, Georgia, US) Message-ID: I'm the local contact for Atlanta, Georgia (US). I would like to organize a flyer distribution event next weekend in downtown Atlanta during Dragoncon, a large science fiction con. "A little party for 20,000 of our closest friends." I am looking for interested people to discuss details and get something together. If you are coming to the con and want to help, let me know. Andrea andrea@gravitt.org From doug at mcnaught.org Sat Aug 25 15:53:40 2001 From: doug at mcnaught.org (Doug McNaught) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] _Alice_ read aloud In-Reply-To: Will Janoschka's message of "Sat, 25 Aug 01 15:53:22 CST" References: <200108252108.QAA000.50@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> Message-ID: Will Janoschka writes: > Since PDF is a raster format everything appears mixed, like > pictures, and hard to separate. PDF is not just a raster format. It's more like a binary boiled-down form of PostScript without the programmability. Not especially human-readable without a viewer, but you can (in general) extract runs of text from it without doing OCR. Since it's always possible for some dumbass to render text to an all-raster PDF, the _Alice in Wonderland_ ebook we're talking about may or may not end up extractable when converted to PDF using your favorite illegal utility. -Doug -- Free Dmitry Sklyarov! http://www.freesklyarov.org/ We will return to our regularly scheduled signature shortly. From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Sat Aug 25 21:08:13 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What I'd like to see: fixing DMCA and IP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 24 Aug 2001, Stephen R. Savitzky wrote: > "Karsten M. Self" writes: > > > > I wouldn't. As noted, this produces serious problems where encryption > > is applied. > > I think I phrased that wrong. No, you didn't, but the concern is that *congress* will phrase it incorrectly, by the time any bill embodying your idea succeeds. Call me paranoid (hell, I used to call me paranoid up until April of this year) but any bill requiring the provision of cleartext of encrypted digital data makes me nervous, regardless of any specific targeting of fair use restrictions. Incidentally, here's another legal "what if." Since the new anti-ripping DRM introduces spiky noise to ripped CD tracks, also causing the same effect in a few CD players, shouldn't those CDs require a warning label? That kind of noise can damage speakers. And you probably won't know if your stereo is "allergic" to these error-laden CDs until you try one. I know that any decent recording of Wellington's Victory has a warning label about the cannons and muskets. Scott From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Sat Aug 25 21:10:23 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] _Alice_ read aloud In-Reply-To: <200108250535.AAA000.34@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Will Janoschka wrote: > > The use of new fonts, new graphics, new cover art, etc., does not restore or > > transfer or grant a new copyright in the now public domain work. > > > It does, however, create a new work. Hasn't it recently been ruled that eBooks are new works, simply by virtue of being in this new format? Question: what does this mean for MP3s of audio tracks? -Scott From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Sat Aug 25 21:34:02 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [Fwd: "eBook Chronicles"] Message-ID: <3B887C3A.CAE86F85@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> (Forwarded from the NEW LIST list) -------- Original Message -------- Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 06:36:46 -0500 From: Gleason Sackmann From: ezine@a-1ebooks.com Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:22:32 -0700 Description: A New, twice a month eZine about life on The Net and the important role played by multi-genre eBooks. Includes fresh Articles and news of upcoming features. One promise: It won't be boring. A Free eBook for all subscribers. Subscription Instructions: http://www.a-1ebooks.com ezine@a-1ebooks,com Owner/Host Email Address: ezine@a-1ebooks.com *********************************************************************** * To leave NEW-LIST send email to: * * listserv@listserv.classroom.com * * In the message type: SIGNOFF NEW-LIST * * * * New-list mailing list is a service of * * Classroom Connect -- http://www.classroom.com * * * * Archives for New-list can be found at: * * http://www1.classroom.com/community/email/archives.jhtm?A0=NEW-LIST * * * * Newsgroup is at: * * news:bit.listserv.new-list * *********************************************************************** From wiljan at pobox.com Sat Aug 25 21:59:31 2001 From: wiljan at pobox.com (Will Janoschka) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] _Alice_ read aloud Message-ID: <200108260515.AAA000.52@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> On 25 Aug 2001 18:53:40 Doug McNaught doug@mcnaught.org said: >Will Janoschka writes: >> Since PDF is a raster format everything appears mixed, like >> pictures, and hard to separate. >PDF is not just a raster format. It's more like a binary boiled-down >form of PostScript without the programmability. Not especially >human-readable without a viewer, but you can (in general) extract runs >of text from it without doing OCR. >Since it's always possible for some dumbass to render text to an >all-raster PDF, the _Alice in Wonderland_ ebook we're talking about >may or may not end up extractable when converted to PDF using your >favorite illegal utility. -so true- actually--- Adobe's e-book -Alice's adventures in Wonderland- is easily converted to text from the PDF using Ghostscript. I was trying to give credence to Mr. Zelchinko statement that with the Adobe e-book reader it is difficult to separate the text from the font and his illustrations of Sir John Tenniel. These (replicated) illustrations are, in my opinion, excellent, much better than those produced at Harvard earlier. I have no idea why he sold/gave his work to Adobe so that Adobe could give it away, thus creating the impression that e-book reader and Adobe are "such good things". read: (Adobe enables you to "view premium content") Sat, 25 Aug 2001 23:19:07 Tom tom@lemuria.org said: >unless I'm mistaken, the gutenberg license REQUIRES that >an ASCII version is available... It is quite apparent that Mr. Zelchinko was aware of but did not use any of the Project Gutenberg work. Why would he, Lewis Carroll's stuff is all over the place. on Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 00:10:23 Xcott Craver said: > Hasn't it recently been ruled that eBooks are new works, simply > by virtue of being in this new format? Hi Scott, By whom? The Random House thing was over who owned rights in what format. Random House 'prolly has good lawyers tho. -will- From kmself at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 25 23:38:33 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] _Alice_ read aloud In-Reply-To: <20010824233120.C6582@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 11:31:20PM -0700 References: <200108250535.AAA000.34@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> <20010824230917.B24127@ufies.org> <20010824233120.C6582@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010825233833.D25887@navel.introspect> on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 11:31:20PM -0700, Jon O . (jono@microshaft.org) wrote: > > Yes, I think you've got something here... > > Furthermore, The Project Gutenberg License states: > > DISTRIBUTION UNDER "PROJECT GUTENBERG-tm" > You may distribute copies of this etext electronically, or by > disk, book or any other medium if... > > The etext may be readily converted by the reader at > no expense into plain ASCII, EBCDIC or equivalent > form by the program that displays the etext (as is > the case, for instance, with most word processors); > OR > > [*] You provide, or agree to also provide on request at > no additional cost, fee or expense, a copy of the > etext in its original plain ASCII form (or in EBCDIC > or other equivalent proprietary form). This is a misleading abridgment of the Project Gutenberg license. Under the forward material to Alice, is the section "DISTRIBUTION UNDER "PROJECT GUTENBERG-tm": You may distribute copies of this etext electronically, or by disk, book or any other medium IF YOU EITHER DELETE THIS "SMALL PRINT!" AND ALL OTHER REFERENCES TO PROJECT GUTENBERG, OR: (emphasis added) Note that the emphasized text, dropped in Jon O's post, allows for unrestricted use of the text if the Project Gutenberg additions are removed. The remaining text is public domain (specified earlier in the preferatory text), and hence, its use is unrestricted. The following terms (quoted partially in Jon O.'s post) refer to terms for copying and distributing the *entire work*, with the PG additions. What Project Gutenberg does by prepending and appending text to the work is to create a derivative work. The bulk of the work itself, absent these additions, under the public domain, may be used in any manner without respect to PG's license: the work isn't PG's to license. Thus, the issue of whether the eBook _Alice_, to the extent it contains just the public domain portions of the PG _Alice_, includes, omits, or adds to, the PG license, is largely irrelevant. I would argue, however, that the claims of Mr. Zelchenko are patently absurd and fly in the face of legal fact. IANAL, this is not legal advice. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010825/90b4abb7/attachment.pgp From pablos at kadrevis.com Sun Aug 26 11:21:55 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Paul Holman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Laptop for Dmitry Message-ID: <2078973.998824915@[10.0.1.220]> I got to have lunch with Dmitry Sklyarov the other day, and wanted to share with the group that he is a really fantastic guy. Very humble, and lacking any criminal qualities. He's not allowed to talk about the case at all, nor can he leave the Northern District of California at all. Being out on bail is far from freedom. Dmitry has very limited internet access at this point, only borrowing other people's computers when he has the chance. If anyone has a spare laptop with ethernet/modem that he could borrow for his stay, that would be a fantastic help. Please reply to me off list if you have any ideas about this. Thanks, pablos. -- Paul Holman pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 http://www.shmoo.com/~pablos From seth.johnson at RealMeasures.dyndns.org Sun Aug 26 10:47:43 2001 From: seth.johnson at RealMeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [Fwd: More on DMCA restricting forensics tools and crypto research] Message-ID: <000c01c12e57$406248e0$0f05b3d8@realmeasures> (Forwarded from POLITECH list) -------- Original Message -------- Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:21:46 -0400 From: Declan McCullagh There seem to be two important questions here: 1. Do the DMCA's civil or criminal sections apply to developing and selling police forensics tools to the general public? Does the law enforcement exception in the DMCA stretch to make such behavior lawful -- if you sell only to law enforcement? 2. Do the DMCA's civil or criminal sections make publishing an academic paper or news article about how-to-circumvent-copy-protection illegal? What if source code is included? I think the answer to question #2 is easier: No, at least if source code is not included, no matter what the RIAA/SDMI may say. Question #1 seems a bit more tricky. Below are responses from: * Lee Hollaar, who was a fellow with the Senate Judiciary committee and worked on the DMCA. Lee is a computer science prof at the University of Utah and has been the chair of IEEE-USA's Intellectual Property committee. * Harvey Silverglate of Silverglate and Good in Boston, who successfully defended the first criminal not-for-profit copyright infringement case * R. Polk Wagner at the University of Pennsylvania's law school * Peter Wayner, author of Disappearing Cryptography * Fred Cohen, whose article to RISKS started this thread * David Wagner in the computer science departent at the University of California at Berkeley * and others Previous article: http://www.politechbot.com/p-02432.html DMCA article archive: http://www.politechbot.com/p-02432.html -Declan ********* Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 17:40:09 -0600 From: "Lee Hollaar" To: declan@well.com Subject: Re: FC: DMCA restricts police forensics tools, cryptanalysis research? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010825181724.02134940@mail.well.com> At 04:41 PM 8/25/2001, you wrote: >Because the primary purpose of most of my forensic analysis tools is to >reveal things that are protected from revelation, and because the DMCA >makes it illegal to distribute such a device, I have been forced (based >on the recent arrests and other threats against authors of such things) >to withdraw my forensic products from the market. > >I should note that companies like Access Data who sell products that are >explicitly designed for undoing encryption, etc. are almost certainly in >violation of the DMCA. While the FBI might not arrest them now because they >sell to the FBI (and other in law enforcement - as did I), this does not >mean that the FBI cannot arrest them at any time and charge them with a >felony. Indeed, sale to law enforcement is not legal, even though law >enforcement can, on its own, build and use such tools. Take a look at 17 USC 1201(e) -- Law Enforcement, Intelligence, and Other Government Activities.- This section [the anticircumvention provision, section 1201] does not prohibit any lawfully authorized investigative, protective, information security, or intelligence activity of an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision of a State, or a person acting pursuant to a contract with the United States, a State, or a political subdivision of a State. For purposes of this subsection, the term "information security" means activities carried out in order to identify and address the vulnerabilities of a government computer, computer system, or computer network. Of course, selling something to law enforcement would be "acting pursuant to a contract" for that sale. ********* From: "Harvey Silverglate" To: Subject: RE: DMCA restricts police forensics tools, cryptanalysis research? Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 00:59:56 -0400 Declan I think you're right, but this law is a little tricky, and there's an atmosphere afoot that is not healthy for free speech or publicizing one's research. On the other hand, if there's going to be a test case of DMCA, one hopes that the fact setting will be conducive to a conclusion that the defendant was indeed discussing his research, rather than using the First Amendment as a cover for cracking. The ACLU has always been good, for example, at picking test cases where the facts made it more likely that we'd make good law. Harvey ********* Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 00:02:04 -0400 Subject: Re: FC: DMCA restricts police forensics tools, cryptanalysis research? From: "R. Polk Wagner" To: On 8/25/01 6:41 PM, "Declan McCullagh" wrote: > The below message is from today's RISKS Digest > (http://www.csl.sri.com/users/risko/risksinfo.html). > > The DMCA (sec. 1201) says in part "no person shall manufacture, import, > offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic" in anything that "is > primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a > technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected > under this title." Anyone care to speculate about whether that applies to > Fred's product? (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c105:H.R.2281.ENR:) > The DMCA has a specific exception for encryption research activities, 17 USC 1201(g), as well as law enforcement activities, 17 USC 1021(e). As far as I know, the true scope of those exceptions haven't yet been tested. > While the DMCA may well be an awful law, one thing I've never understood is > why many folks seem to think it bans publishing your research into security > flaws and so on. The RIAA/SDMI threats against Ed Felten & co were > spurious. There are two prongs to the DMCA: Don't bypass copy protection > schemes, and don't sell stuff that automates that process. Nowhere does the > law say "don't tell others what you learned." Even if circumventing (for > profit) is a felony, telling people how they could theoretically break the > law is generally legal, right? > (http://www.loompanics.com/Articles/HitManLawsuit.htm) > (1) Telling others in some detail might be within the meaning of "provide" in these circumstances. (2) One could also make the claim that one commits contributory infringement by telling someone else how to circumvent. I think both of these arguments are really weak, but at least some folks on both sides of the debate seem to buy them. I suppose there will be some fear until a court officially shoots the theories down. -- ===================================== R. Polk Wagner University of Pennsylvania Law School 3400 Chestnut Street Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19104 http://www.law.upenn.edu/polk/ ===================================== ********* Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 19:23:16 -0400 To: declan@well.com From: Peter Wayner Subject: Re: FC: DMCA restricts police forensics tools, cryptanalysis research? >While the DMCA may well be an awful law, one thing I've never understood >is why many folks seem to think it bans publishing your research into >security flaws and so on. The RIAA/SDMI threats against Ed Felten & co >were spurious. There are two prongs to the DMCA: Don't bypass copy >protection schemes, and don't sell stuff that automates that process. >Nowhere does the law say "don't tell others what you learned." Even if >circumventing (for profit) is a felony, telling people how they could >theoretically break the law is generally legal, right? >(http://www.loompanics.com/Articles/HitManLawsuit.htm) I believe that it becomes a bit more of a problem when you actually circulate source code. Yes, this is human readable and definitely a means of expressing your opinion to a larger group. But it's also a mechanism that will turn into software after being passed through a compiler. So is it software or speech? -Peter ********* Subject: Re: DMCA restricts police forensics tools, cryptanalysis research? To: declan@well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:12:15 -0700 (PDT) Cc: politech@politechbot.com In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010825181724.02134940@mail.well.com> from "Declan McCullagh" at Aug 25, 2001 06:41:56 PM From: Fred Cohen Per the message sent by Declan McCullagh: > The below message is from today's RISKS Digest > (http://www.csl.sri.com/users/risko/risksinfo.html). > The DMCA (sec. 1201) says in part "no person shall manufacture, import, > offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic" in anything that "is > primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a > technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected > under this title." Anyone care to speculate about whether that applies to > Fred's product? (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c105:H.R.2281.ENR:) I believe it is quite clear that a product such as mine that is intended to bypass effective controls over access to copyrighted works (which is anything put into tangible form unless specifically not copyrighted) violates this law. > While the DMCA may well be an awful law, one thing I've never understood is > why many folks seem to think it bans publishing your research into security > flaws and so on. It does not prohibit research, only manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic ... the obvious problem being that research without publication is not useful if we are to make scientific progress. > The RIAA/SDMI threats against Ed Felten & co were spurious. They were not. They had a chilling effect on him and on the rest of us doing research into such things. Could they have been enforced? We may never know. They are being used rather brutally against a Russian gentleman - one of the motivating factors in my decision for certain. > There are two prongs to the DMCA: Don't bypass copy protection > schemes, and don't sell stuff that automates that process. Nowhere does the > law say "don't tell others what you learned." It says that trafficing in information that leads to defeating proteciton is covered. > Even if circumventing (for > profit) is a felony, telling people how they could theoretically break the > law is generally legal, right? Theory is one thing - practical information is another. But I wouldn't be too sure, and I am not all that certain - hence I am taking the prudent route. > (http://www.loompanics.com/Articles/HitManLawsuit.htm) > -Declan FC --This communication is confidential to the parties it is intended to serve-- Fred Cohen Fred Cohen & Associates.........tel/fax:925-454-0171 fc@all.net The University of New Haven.....http://www.unhca.com/ http://all.net/ Sandia National Laboratories....tel:925-294-2087 ********* From: David Wagner Subject: FC: DMCA restricts police forensics tools, cryptanalysis research? To: declan@well.com Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:12:16 -0700 (PDT) In article <5.0.2.1.0.20010825181724.02134940@mail.well.com> you write: >While the DMCA may well be an awful law, one thing I've never understood is >why many folks seem to think it bans publishing your research into security >flaws and so on. Ahh, how I wish it were as clearcut as you suggest. It's the "or component thereof" language (see the statute) which I'm told could be interpreted to include a paper that describes the algorithm for breaking a system, for instance. I've gotten the sense that this is not the most likely outcome, but even if there is only a 10% chance that some judge will interpret the statute in this way, that's more than enough for significant amounts of research to be chilled. You could say that the fear is due to uncertainty about how the DMCA will be interpreted as much as anything else. The problem is that noone can promise us "there's no risk that your paper could be construed as a violation of the DMCA", and as long as this persists, one can only expect that people will be cautious. -- David ********* From: "Charles L. Jackson" To: Subject: RE: DMCA restricts police forensics tools, cryptanalysis research? Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 19:46:57 -0400 In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010825181724.02134940@mail.well.com> Re: Law enforcement. The DCMA says: (e)LAW ENFORCEMENT,INTELLIGENCE,AND OTHER GOVERNMENT A CTIVITIES.-This section does not prohibit any lawfully authorized investigative,protective,information security,or intelligence activity of an officer,agent,or employee of the United States, a State,or a political subdivision of a State,or a person acting pursuant to a contract with the United States,a State,or a political subdivision of a State.For purposes of this subsection,the term "information security "means activities carried out in order to identify and address the vulnerabilities of a government computer,computer system, or computer network. Section (g)(2) of the DCMA describes "Permissible Acts of Encryption Research." (That phrase seems to indicate that there are impremissible acts of encryption research). One of the factors determining whether research is permissible is where the research is published. Specifically, the law states "In determining whether a person qualifies for the exemption under paragraph (2),the factors to be considered shall include - (A)whether the information derived from the encryption research was disseminated,and if so,whether it was disseminated in a manner reasonably calculated to advance the state of knowledge or development of encryption technology,versus whether it was disseminated in a manner that facilitates infringement under this title" For a lighter discussion of this last point see http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2807159,00.html Chuck Jackson ********* From: "Timothy McGhee" To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010825181724.02134940@mail.well.com> Subject: Re: DMCA restricts police forensics tools, cryptanalysis research? Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 20:07:27 -0400 > While the DMCA may well be an awful law, one thing I've never understood is > why many folks seem to think it bans publishing your research into security > flaws Two reasons for you: Reason #1: http://www.politechbot.com/p-02270.html This would be the second known prosecution under the criminal sections of the controversial Digital Millennium Copyright Act, (DMCA) which took effect last year and makes it a crime to "manufacture" products that circumvent copy protection safeguards. Doesn't "publishing your research" = "manufacturing" in the knowledge industry? If not, what's the difference? Maybe the target audience is different (academic vs. commercial), but the DMCA doesn't seem to care. Here's another example, and this doesn't even involve mass distribution (which might, perhaps, be implied when referring to "manufacturing"), but could be invoking the DMCA because of "trafficking." Reason #2: http://www.politechbot.com/p-02412.html an Oklahoma man . accidentally discovered that his local newpaper's web server permitted anyone at all to edit its content using the Front Page client without authentication. Like any good samaritan might, he alerted the newspaper's editor of the problem. Now, sixteen months later and under threat of prosecution, the U.S. Attorney's office is attempting to coerce him to accept a plea to a felony conviction and five years probation. Here a man wasn't even "publishing" the information or mass distributing it in any way; he was just giving it to the person who could solve the problem. Nonetheless, he has been absolutely drilled by the feds for doing what many of us would have done in the same situation--until now. Even if it's not the DMCA that the feds use, they're finding ways to treat publishing security flaw research as criminal activity. The DMCA is the most prominently bad law when it comes to free speech and coding issues; perhaps it's simply being used as an umbrella scapegoat for all of the problems in the United States Code when it comes to the First Amendment as it relates to programming. These stories have made me hesitant to use a script that seems like it would be effective in dealing with the Code Red problem. Let me explain. Collectively, Code Reds I and II have hit the server I administer over 1300 times so far this month. There's a perl script called Code Red Strikeback that would return a request to that server to shut it down. (The script claims it only works on Code Red II infected machines.) Basically, it would help slow Code Red down and encourage people to patch their servers. It doesn't do anything malicious, but technically it does penetrate the system, and that would be illegal. According to the DMCA, I don't think it's legal to send you the script or use it, as either could be construed as trafficking in circumvention technology. Is it even legal to say such a thing exists? The recent string of prosecutions hardly seems "spurious." I'm guessing most of us don't think it should be illegal, but we'd also rather not risk the five years probation or ten years in prison. From Bush all the way down, this government seems to considers hacking of any kind (including accidental) to be equal to terrorism. (Just listen to the rhetoric when a DDOS attack hits the news.) I can only guess at from where this comes. Perhaps, hacking could be used to orchestrate terrorist activities, or manipulate systems that could have terrorist effects. But hacking itself is no more terroristic than simply building a bomb, and certainly not terroristic if you're just telling people how to do it. (Aren't there bomb-making guides on the Internet? Are those illegal?) I don't know what the law says about using explosives on your farm if you want to take out a tree, but I don't think it's equal to terrorism. I'm not sure if saying Code Red Strikeback exists, is legal. I'm fairly certain that no one is going to die or be injured because I said that, which means that should not be considered terrorism. So, I'm willing to take my chances. If even saying that is not legal, then it's time for politechnicals to become a lot more politically active. Tim ********* Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:40:43 +0100 From: David Cantrell To: Declan McCullagh Subject: Re: FC: DMCA restricts police forensics tools, cryptanalysis research? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010825181724.02134940@mail.well.com>; from On Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 06:41:56PM -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: > While the DMCA may well be an awful law, one thing I've never understood is > why many folks seem to think it bans publishing your research into security > flaws and so on. I haven't read the law, but consider that most people can't afford to defend themselves in court, and so the very threat of prosecution - regardless of what the law actually says - is enough to prevent publishing. -- David Cantrell | david@cantrell.org.uk http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david Educating this luser would be something to frustrate even the unflappable Yoda and make him jam a lightsaber up his arse hile screaming "praise evil, the Dark Side is your friend!". -- Derek Balling, in the Monastery ********* ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010826/265b4792/attachment.htm From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Sun Aug 26 17:13:48 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [Fwd: O'Reilly Conference Sept. 2001 in Washington DC] Message-ID: <3B8990BC.C800CEE9@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> (To Free-Sklyarov recipients: I'm sending this because it's a great place to have an impact. Note the attendees, including Congressman Rick Boucher -- Seth) -------- Original Message -------- Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:42:46 -0400 From: "John Scott" fyi... *************************************************************************** Emergent Computing Policy Roundtable on Monday Sept. 17th Monday, September 17th, Tim O'Reilly brings together legal, political, and technology experts to the Omni Shoreham Hotel in Washington, DC for a no-holds-barred roundtable discussion of the promise and perils of P2P and web services. Peer-to-peer computing and web services bring fundamental shifts to information and entertainment services - shifts that have major legal, social, and moral repercussions. Confirmed roundtable participants include: - Moderator Tim O'Reilly, O'Reilly & Associates - Manus Cooney, Napster - Jon Potter, Digital Media Association (DiMA) - Marc Rotenberg, Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) - Peter Jaszi, Digital Future Coalition - Cindy Cohn, Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) - Jenny Toomey, Future of Music Coalition - Dan Gilmor, San Jose Mercury News Inventing the Post-Web World September 18 - 21, 2001 Washington, DC Omni Shoreham Hotel --------------------------------------------------------------------- This is all part of the O'Reilly and Associates pee-to-peer and web services conference in Washington DC Sept. 18 - 21 at the Omni Shoreham Hotel (http://conferences.oreilly.com/p2p/). We have put together another dynamic P2P and Web Services program. You will not want to miss this opportunity to experience the latest in the emergent technologies of peer-to-peer and web services. Here's a list of our confirmed keynote speakers with links to descriptions of their keynote topics: Congressman Rick Boucher (D - VA) Representative Boucher is a leading architect of federal policy for the Internet and discusses the impact of web services and peer services on the Internet legislative scene. http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/p2pweb2001/view/e_sess/1929 Clay Shirky, The Accelerator Group, Sponsored by Sun Microsystems Shirky discusses how the world's devices connect to the Internet and to one another outside the browser+server framework, how it is transforming the network, and how we use it. http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/p2pweb2001/view/e_sess/1824 Lawrence Lessig, Stanford Law School Lessig describes the changes in law and technology that threaten the innovation commons that the Internet has been. http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/p2pweb2001/view/e_sess/1575 David Stutz, Microsoft Corporation Stutz describes when to use peer-to-peer techniques, and how web services can be used to improve peer-to-peer applications. Stutz also describes the high-level .NET architecture. http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/p2pweb2001/view/e_sess/1826 Michael Conner, IBM Conner covers web services: what they are, why and how they are changing program-to-program communication, and how they are transforming businesses. http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/wg/print/e_sess/1805?x-r=disp Simon Phipps, Sun Microsystems, Sponsored by Sun Microsystems Phipps explores the principles behind the evolution of the web and the future of services on the Internet. http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/p2pweb2001/view/e_sess/1940 JUST ADDED CONFERENCE UPDATE: On Monday, September 17th, there will be a number of peer-to-peer and web services community meetings. For more information about these important events, please visit our web site http://conferences.oreilly.com/p2p/ CONFERENCE DETAILS Tuesday September 18th features a full day of tutorials including .NET, Groove, JXTA, SOAP, Jabber, OpenCOLA, Programming Web Services, and an insightful technology overview by the program committee: O'Reilly Networks Maven Rael Dornfest, OpenCOLA Co-Founder and Chief Evangelist Cory Doctorow, Hack the Planet weblog editor Wes Felter, and WorldOS Corp. CEO Lucas Gonze. Wednesday the 19th marks the opening of the conference and exposition hall. As is customary for all O'Reilly conferences, you can expect deeply technical and provocative session presentations. Our lively exhibit hall features a hands-on-look at the latest devices and technologies. And don't forget, during the breaks the hallways will be teeming with vigorous community discussions about the P2P and Web Services space. Why attend the Second O'Reilly Peer-to-Peer and Web Services Conference? 1) Network with the most innovative technologists, Internet business developers and lawmakers. 2) Explore and invent the next generation of the Internet. 3) Learn how to discern the difference between the facts and the fiction about peer-to-peer and web services. 4) Bring home tips and tools for improving your web technologies. 5) Prepare yourself for the legal implications of an evolving Internet landscape. 6) Arm yourself with the security, ethical and moral information to make informed decisions for your web presence. 7) Come to the Exhibit Hall and visit with Sun Microsystems, Endeavors, NextPage, Platform Computing, Interface Dynamics, Jibe and many, many more. To view a listing of our sponsors and exhibitors please visit: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/p2pweb2001/pub/w/16/sponsors.html http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/p2pweb2001/pub/w/16/exhibitors.html ************************************************************ Thanks and feel free to call, John Scott cell - 240.401.6574 From larsg at eurorights.org Sun Aug 26 19:04:40 2001 From: larsg at eurorights.org (Lars Gaarden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: Plea bargin fot Dima ?!? References: Message-ID: <00f401c12e9c$a22b3100$aa847a94@online.no> From: "Robert Knop" > or unless Europe passes some DMCA-like law that makes the rest of the > world just as bad as the USA. Let's hope there is a colony on the moon before Dec 22 2002, then. http://eurorights.org/eudmca/ -- LarsG From larsg at eurorights.org Sun Aug 26 19:14:27 2001 From: larsg at eurorights.org (Lars Gaarden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What I'd like to see: fixing DMCA and IP References: <3B85E1C6.787A5681@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <00fe01c12e9e$003d1c80$aa847a94@online.no> From: "Seth Johnson" > Xcott Craver wrote: > > > > However, the Internet is slowly > > turning every act of communication into "publishing." > > "Slowly?" Yeah, slowly. Keep in mind that the good old NII white-paper from the '95 era promoted the idea that each and every technical copy, no matter how temporary or technically necessary, would have to be licensed. That is, every Cisco router, web proxy and ethernet card involved in the transfer of copyrighted material would have to pay a licensing tax. No wonder the MPAA and their ilk worshiped Bruce Lehman. -- LarsG From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Sun Aug 26 20:45:29 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Brian K. West's defense lawyer replies to U.S. Attorney Message-ID: <3B89C259.AB3F4499@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> (Forwarded from POLITECH list) -------- Original Message -------- Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:02:49 -0400 From: Declan McCullagh ******** From: "Cherie M. Chappell" To: Subject: Brian West - Defense Press Release Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:26:06 -0500 Defense Press Release - For Immediate Release In response to U.S. Attorney Sheldon (Shelly) J. Sperling's web posted News Release of 8/24/01, posted at http://www.politechbot.com/p-02430.html Mr. Brian West's defense team makes the following response: It appears from the facts of this case that Mr. West was allegedly using Microsoft Windows, Microsoft Internet Explorer, and Microsoft FrontPage software (all registered trademarks of the Microsoft Corporation) when he was inadvertently exposed to the Poteau Daily News & Sun's website directory tree. The web hosting provider for the Poteau Daily News & Sun, Cyberlink, was also allegedly running Microsoft NT 4.0 - IIS and Microsoft FrontPage with server extensions enabled. >From these facts it appears that Microsoft's software may have caused this unfortunate situation to occur. Mr. Sperling or the Federal Bureau of Investigation may be wise to investigate Microsoft as a possible co-defendant or party in this case. It appears that Microsoft's software at issue in this case was developed and/or produced after the original October 1984 enactment of the statute. If this case goes to trial, the Microsoft personnel who developed these programs will likely be subpoenaed as witnesses by Mr. West's defense team. Or if it is found that this software contributed to, participated in or caused the events under investigation to occur, Microsoft could be indicted under the same statute. It may be appropriate to ask Microsoft to recall these potentially statute-violating products from the market or to provide patches to all of the affected software owners, worldwide. (The language of the statute provides for worldwide jurisdictional authority - if the computer is "used in interstate or foreign commerce or communication".) This case may also involve Oklahoma state antitrust issues. Under Title 18 of the United States Code, Section 1030(a)(2)(C), the federal statute under which the federal investigation against Mr. West is proceeding, it is a crime for: "Whoever intentionally accesses a computer without authorization or exceeds authorized access, and thereby obtains information from any protected computer if the conduct involved an interstate or foreign communication;" The statute also provides definitions for certain key phrases used in the statute. 18 USC 1030(e): As used in this section - (1) the term ''computer'' means an electronic, magnetic, optical, electrochemical, or other high speed data processing device performing logical, arithmetic, or storage functions, and includes any data storage facility or communications facility directly related to or operating in conjunction with such device, but such term does not include an automated typewriter or typesetter, a portable hand held calculator, or other similar device; (2) the term ''protected computer'' means a computer - (A) exclusively for the use of a financial institution or the United States Government, or, in the case of a computer not exclusively for such use, used by or for a financial institution or the United States Government and the conduct constituting the offense affects that use by or for the financial institution or the Government; or (B) which is used in interstate or foreign commerce or communication; (6) the term ''exceeds authorized access'' means to access a computer with authorization and to use such access to obtain or alter information in the computer that the accesser is not entitled so to obtain or alter; This statute may be fatally flawed. First, there is a question of the Constitutionality of this statue under the 1st and 9th Amendments to the United States Constitution. Second, everyone who places Cookies on millions of computers around the world without the authorization of internet users could be criminally prosecuted under this statute, particularly in light of the statute's definitions of "protected computer" and "exceed authorized access." Third, senders of certain kinds of SPAM (not the lunch meat) may also be subjected to criminal prosecution under this statute. Every U.S. Attorney in the country may have the power to criminally prosecute SPAM'ers under this statute. Although Mr. Sperling notes in his posting (cited above) that, "[t]he question under investigation is whether valuable intellectual property has been improperly converted" he should note that the provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act allowing criminal prosecution for merely looking at or caching code do not apply in this case, as that particular portion of the DMCA was not enacted until October 2000, a full nine months after the events unfolded in Mr. West's case. Cyberlink or it's owner(s) may be investigated by the Office of Oklahoma Attorney General Drew Edmondson for possible criminal antitrust violations under Oklahoma law (79 O.S. 203(A) and (B)) http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/deliverdocument.asp?citeID=89728 From the facts in this case, it appears that Cyberlink allegedly exercised it's monopoly market power in the Poteau internet service provider market and allegedly attempted to prevent Mr. West's company from gaining entry into that market by allegedly misinforming law enforcement about Mr. West's contact and involvement with the website of the Poteau Daily News & Sun. Mr. West's defense team has decided to issue this press release in response to Mr. Sperling's press release that was web posted at 21:01 (9:07pm) on Friday, August 24, 2001, at http://www.politechbot.com/p-02430.html and because Mr. West's situation has generated a great deal of public interest. Mr. West and his defense team thank you for your interest in his situation. -Cherie M. Chappell and Kenneth R. Poland For further information contact: Cherie M. Chappell, Esq. Chappell Law Firm, P.L.L.C. P.O. Box 5243 Edmond, OK 73083-5243 405.340.7755 voice 405.340.7757 fax Email: cmc@chappelllawfirm.com URL: www.chappelllawfirm.com ******** From: "Thomas Junker" To: declan@well.com Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:34:49 -0500 In-reply-to: <5.0.2.1.0.20010826105411.00a36730@mail.well.com> On 26 Aug 2001, at 11:22, Declan McCullagh wrote: > Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 19:41:18 -0400 > From: John Noble > Subject: Re: FC: U.S. Attorney replies to "Good Samaritan" outcry with > statement > > It's an interesting defense -- accidental penetration. It's more than interesting: we seem to have entered the age of Click on a Link, Go to Jail. Amplification below... > Maybe somebody on > your list, Declan, who knows more about network security can answer this > question: if a hypothetical cracker was nailed by real-time monitoring -- a > "gotcha" while online and inside the network -- would he likely know it or > suspect it? No, but the question presupposes something not suggested by the published facts I have so far seen: that Mr. West was "inside the network." According to the reports he simply clicked on a function in Microsoft Front Page to capture a Web page for use as a sample and, to his surprise, found that Front was allowed editing access to that page. That's like walking up to a door in an unfamiliar office building to read the occupant information and finding one's self sucked through the door and to an open file cabinet, whereupon the hidden cameras film one "penetrating" someone's confidential information. It was Front Page, a tool from a company notorious for going out of its way to facilitate insecure accesses by automating security holes, that did the penetrating, and that was only possible because the site had not been secured in any way. No doubt leaving the site wide open to public modification is the default in Front Page, which would be true to form. Another analogy could be visiting a business office for information, seeing a sign saying, "Public information this way," following the arrow, opening the door to which it points, finding one's self in a room full of file cabinets, briefly examining some file folders thinking they must contain the public information, discovering that the information is most decidedly not of a public nature, leaving, reporting the lack of security to the management, and being accused of "penetrating" the company's files. It is absurd. Had Mr. West used something like WebWhacker to capture pages, or even "Save As" in his browser, he would have been in no danger of "penetrating" anything, intentionally or otherwise. His basic mistake was in using software that tries to do Dangerous Things at the touch of an innocuous button. His second mistake was pride -- he had to tell someone how smart he was. Reporting an unlocked door to clueless weasels is probably a good way to be asked, "And what were *you* doing opening that door?" and to be accused of trespassing. Or to have detectives show up and ask one, "Can you show us this door you found unlocked, and can you show us exactly how you opened it?" Translate all this into the context of doors with ambiguous markings in public offices where public information is advertized to be available and it becomes clear how silly it is. > Or can we assume that his voluntary report of his accidental > accomplishment was the product of good faith and stupidity? Yes, overwhelmingly so. To suggest that he somehow tipped to some form of monitoring by using Front Page and then 'fessed up to seem of innocent intent is a far reach. And what monitoring, for that matter? It seems unlikely that people disorganized enough to leave their Website completely open to editing by Front Page by anyone on the planet would be together enough to be monitoring their network in real time for intrusions. More likely the "monitoring" was the examination of logs after the fact. Something else I have not seen mentioned is this: many TCP/IP tools, particularly browsers and other Web tools, incessantly send requests for documents until they receive an answer. Crank up a sniffer or other form of raw TCP/IP monitoring and point a browser at a host that doesn't exist or doesn't answer on Port 80. You will see the browser send dozens, perhaps hundreds of requests. There is little in such traffic logs to suggest any correlation between the numerous "attempts" and any wilfullness or repeated action on the part of the person using the software making the requests. Worse, the user is unaware of all that activity, seeing only the spinning logo of the Web browser, for example, as it tries to contact a Website. It is as if your phone had an automatic redial feature that would continue to dial until achieving a connection. It would be as mindless to count the number of calls as some kind of indication of intent or persistence on the part of the caller as it may be to count "attempts" to connect to something in the Internet, particularly something intended to be connected to by its very nature and by tools that customarily contain automatic retry functionalities. Have we now reached a place in La-La Land where each of 100 or more TCP port connection tries automatically made by a browser is to become a "count" in an indictment? > Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 11:30:21 -0700 > From: Anthony Mournian > > August 25, 2001 > > ... > > Somehow this whole thing of Internet security has begun to turn upside > down. Yea, verily! > It has a chilling effect on free and open communication when it > becomes a crime to talk about the possibility of breaching security, or > to discuss it in an open forum. It has a chilling effect on free speech > when the U.S. Government decides to act like the 800 lb gorilla and go > after a person like Brian K. West, who did in fact look at the content > of another person's computer, and had the common sense to report the > complete lack of security to the computer's owner. Very well put. > Funny, I feel even by writing you this note I invite > investigation by Big Brother. As do I by writing to Declan with the possibility that he may include my message in his public list. > ... > > Much of this note is off the point, and yet is directly on point. The > U.S. Government is too much in many of our lives already, and this > newfound Mecca of computer investigation and The Hammer for those who > even technically step off the line, as apparently did Mr. West, is a bit > too much. It is way too much. It is probably to be expected, though. People, including law enforcement, have demonstrated some difficulty in translating concepts well settled in non-computer contexts into the world of computers and Internet. In time this will all shake out but there will be many casualties along the way. In a few decades readers of old accounts of such bizarre applications of law and legal concepts as we are today witnessing will no doubt shake their heads over the silliness of it all, much as we can now gape at the absurdity of the Salem witch trials and others such excursions, but they will in no way gain a sense of the horror of being one of the casualties. There does indeed appear to be a flight of common sense from most all walks of modern life, from the hamburger flipper who replies to an order for a burger to go by asking, "Here or to go?" to the legion of businesses whose Customer Service is less useful than the time-of-day recording to elected representatives who fall all over themselves to offer and pass legislation clearly prohibited by various constitutions. It should not be all that surprising that law enforcement entities are seizing on new computer-related legislation as if the underlying concepts had just been imported from another galaxy and were to be taken without regard to common sense or any other established legal wisdom. On the one hand people in general are having difficulty applying what they already know to the Internet; on the other hand it is in the nature of law enforcment to seek any advantage at the cost of any principle or any loss of rights for all. What we cannot yet see is how far down the road of lunacy this trend will go before it is corrected. Regards, Thomas Junker tjunker@tjunker.com ******** From: "Peter Hollings" To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010826105411.00a36730@mail.well.com> Subject: Re: More on Brian K. West, DOJ, and "Good Samaritan" prosecution Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:07:07 -0400 I suspect that most IT security managers would initially respond to an intrusion by turning on programs that would log the intruder's activities. To prevent re-occurance, they'd want to know the intruder's identity, method of penetration, activities, etc. Also, any form of prosecution would depend on this. (See, for example: http://www.cert.org/security-improvement/modules/m06.html .) Thus, the intruder would likely NOT KNOW immediately that his presence had been detected.) The second question, whether someone could "accidentally" intrude on someone else's computer is more speculative. In general, people don't accidentally access, much less penetrate, another computer, but it's possible, just like it's possible for a legitimate deliveryman knocking at a door to find that it swings open (because it's unlatched). Ultimately, I think that the important issues are things like motivations, damages, knowledge that it was a secure area being intruded upon, etc. Peter Hollings ******** From: mjinks@sysvi.com Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 12:43:56 -0500 To: Declan McCullagh Cc: jnoble@dgsys.com Subject: Re: FC: More on Brian K. West, DOJ, and "Good Samaritan" prosecution On Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 11:22:57AM -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > From: John Noble > Subject: Re: FC: U.S. Attorney replies to "Good Samaritan" outcry with > statement > Cc: gharlanr@bellsouth.net > > It's an interesting defense -- accidental penetration. Maybe somebody on > your list, Declan, who knows more about network security can answer this > question: if a hypothetical cracker was nailed by real-time monitoring -- a > "gotcha" while online and inside the network -- would he likely know it or > suspect it? "An intruder" given full shell access to the machine in question could find out anything about it, within reason, but from what I've read Mr. West is not alleged to have had that kind of access. It sounds like he got read-write access to a section of the filesystem, but probably not an area where any intrusion detection systems would be residing. Was he caught on any monitoring systems? > Or can we assume that his voluntary report of his accidental > accomplishment was the product of good faith and stupidity? I take some issue with the implication that the incident could not have happened casually. Whether it did or not is apparently open to question, no doubt we'll be hearing more about exactly what happened and when. But as I read the accounts presented so far, there is every reason to believe that the initial intrusion _could_ have happened almost before Mr. West had a moment to consider the implications of what he was doing. The alleged misconfiguration was that bad, that easy to exploit. One might ask then, why Mr. West did not immediately cease his actions, why he continued to download files if he knew that his access was illegitimate. I don't want to speculate on Mr. West's state of mind or intentions at the time, but a hole this egregious can outrage a technician, and my own first impulse would probably be to alert the owner of the web site, with proof included. After all, without proof I'm just smearing a competitor. Next an assertion without rigor but which I think bears some intuitive validity: a crime which does not feel at all like a crime, perhaps because of the ease with which it may be committed, should probably be viewed with a certain degree of leniency. Taking a shortcut across someone else's lawn is trespassing, but it's hardly breaking and entering. If someone leaves a business associate's private documents laying around on their front lawn, and a casual passerby picks them up -- well, technically that's stealing. But most of the police types and lawyers I've met would probably laugh at the notion of prosecuting the guy who picked up an unprotected bundle of documents lying on a lawn, rifled through them, realized who they belonged to, and then handed them off with the message "hey I found these on your buddy's lawn." Maybe he went looking, maybe he had something to gain, but one thing that seems clear to me is that without a glaring (negligent?) error on the part of the ISP, none of this would have been possible, and it seems reasonable to think that the ISP shares at least some responsibility for any harm inflicted. As Mr. Mournian seems to suggest in his own letter, the fact that the Internet was involved should not cloud the nature of what actually took place. > John Noble Michael Jinks ******** ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jono at microshaft.org Sun Aug 26 21:24:38 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] _Alice_ read aloud In-Reply-To: <20010825233833.D25887@navel.introspect>; from kmself@ix.netcom.com on Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 11:38:33PM -0700 References: <200108250535.AAA000.34@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> <20010824230917.B24127@ufies.org> <20010824233120.C6582@networkcommand.com> <20010825233833.D25887@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <20010826212438.A15409@networkcommand.com> On 25-Aug-2001, Karsten M. Self wrote: > on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 11:31:20PM -0700, Jon O . (jono@microshaft.org) wrote: > > > > Yes, I think you've got something here... > > > > Furthermore, The Project Gutenberg License states: > > > > DISTRIBUTION UNDER "PROJECT GUTENBERG-tm" > > You may distribute copies of this etext electronically, or by > > disk, book or any other medium if... > > > > The etext may be readily converted by the reader at > > no expense into plain ASCII, EBCDIC or equivalent > > form by the program that displays the etext (as is > > the case, for instance, with most word processors); > > OR > > > > [*] You provide, or agree to also provide on request at > > no additional cost, fee or expense, a copy of the > > etext in its original plain ASCII form (or in EBCDIC > > or other equivalent proprietary form). > > This is a misleading abridgment of the Project Gutenberg license. > > Under the forward material to Alice, is the section "DISTRIBUTION UNDER > "PROJECT GUTENBERG-tm": > > You may distribute copies of this etext electronically, or by disk, > book or any other medium IF YOU EITHER DELETE THIS "SMALL PRINT!" > AND ALL OTHER REFERENCES TO PROJECT GUTENBERG, OR: > > (emphasis added) > > Note that the emphasized text, dropped in Jon O's post, allows for > unrestricted use of the text if the Project Gutenberg additions are > removed. The remaining text is public domain (specified earlier in the > preferatory text), and hence, its use is unrestricted. > > The following terms (quoted partially in Jon O.'s post) refer to terms > for copying and distributing the *entire work*, with the PG additions. > > I must be missing something here, the Alice version we are discussing did not remove "ALL OTHER REFERENCES TO PROJECT GUTENBERG" and therefore is subject to the "OR" which contains the three paragraphs containing stipulations. And as I said, people interested should review the entire license and comment on it and it's relation to this Alice ebook. From cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu Mon Aug 27 10:17:03 2001 From: cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WIPO, WTO, and the DMCA Message-ID: [this message cc'ed to freesklyarov.org and anti-dmca.org for use on their websites if they wish. permission generally granted to use this explanation in support of efforts to repeal/reform the DMCA.] Some people have asked for more details regarding the relationship of the DMCA, the WIPO, and the WTO. Short summary: one of the alternate names for the DMCA bill is "WIPO Treaty Implementing Legislation". More info: First take a look at the top of http://www.arl.org/info/frn/copy/band.html which states baldly that: Title I of the DMCA amends U.S. copyright law to comply with the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) Copyright Treaty and the WIPO Performances and Phonograms Treaty, adopted at the WIPO Diplomatic Conference in December 1996. Two major provisions in the WIPO treaties require contracting parties to provide legal remedies against circumventing technological protection measures and tampering with copyright management information. To comply with these provisions, the DMCA adds a new chapter, Chapter 12, to Title 17 of the United States Code. The timeline at http://www.arl.org/info/frn/copy/primer.html#part1 provides a more in-depth look at the interaction between the WIPO treaty process and the DMCA legislation. Note that, if you read this entire document, that although it is targetted at the library community it is not especially outspoken on the dangers of the DMCA to libraries. The explanation for this is simple: it was written in February 1999, and at the time the libraries were optimistic that the exemptions they'd been promised would actually materialize. See http://www.arl.org/info/frn/copy/pr110100.html for their reaction to how the law actually turned out. See also http://www.arl.org/info/letters/dmca_80400.html Back to the WIPO: The Digital Future Coalition (a group that involves libraries, schools, consumer-rights groups, academics, and others) has a little more DMCA information, as well as more WIPO-related stuff at http://www.dfc.org/dfc1/Active_Issues/graphic/DMCA_index.html So now you're asking: where does the WTO fit in? The WTO and the WIPO have a "mutually supportive relationship" with "appropriate arrangements for cooperation", see http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/trips_e/intel3_e.htm This mutual relationship is structured around the WTO's "TRIPS" agreement which sets out the rules that members of the WTO must follow in setting up systems to protect intellectual property rights within their borders. See google http://www.google.com/search?q=WTO+TRIPS for a much more balanced overview of the TRIPS agreement. So, the WTO and the WIPO are not the same thing, but they are definitely working together on these issues. And see http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010816_eff_ftaa_alert.en.html which discusses efforts to export this same law to the FTAA (Free Trade Agreement of the Americas) process. The European Union is also considering similar legislation, see http://www.eurorights.org/ for more details. --s kibo FSF Kennedy NRA FBI Mossad chemical agent $400 million in gold bullion Indonesia assassinate Ft. Bragg Castro SDI agent Hager immediate DC ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian ) -- "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970, minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4. -- [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/] #!/usr/bin/perl -w # 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz # MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout # arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order $_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5; $_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d= unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d >>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9 ,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t ^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271)) [$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval From larsg at eurorights.org Mon Aug 27 15:27:53 2001 From: larsg at eurorights.org (Lars Gaarden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WIPO, WTO, and the DMCA References: Message-ID: <004d01c12f47$841f1ea0$aa847a94@online.no> From: "C. Scott Ananian" > And see > http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010816_eff_ftaa_alert.en.html > which discusses efforts to export this same law to the FTAA (Free Trade > Agreement of the Americas) process. > The European Union is also considering similar legislation, see > http://www.eurorights.org/ for more details. Considering isn't quite the right word. The EU copyright directive received the final sign of approval April 9th this year, and all EU member countries have to implement the directive in their own law before Dec 22 2002. So, it's basically a done deal - except for the screaming from those of us that still hope that it can be stopped or amended. -- LarsG From jono at microshaft.org Mon Aug 27 16:32:59 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Attempting to show the other side Message-ID: <20010827163259.C21513@networkcommand.com> FYI: http://lumthemad.net/story.php?story=2252 If you follow tech news, you've read a lot in the past few weeks about Dmitri Skylarov. Here's the other side of the story. http://lumthemad.net/story.php?story=2252 Looks like he is attempting to show the other side of the coin without knowning the coin is fake (doesn't understand the whole issue). Or, maybe it's me. From kyhwana at world-net.co.nz Mon Aug 27 20:27:05 2001 From: kyhwana at world-net.co.nz (Daniel Richards) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Attempting to show the other side In-Reply-To: <20010827163259.C21513@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <3B8BB849.5472.E3A2D86@localhost> On 27 Aug 2001, at 16:32, Jon O . wrote: > http://lumthemad.net/story.php?story=2252 > Looks like he is attempting to show the other side of the coin without > knowning the coin is fake (doesn't understand the whole issue). Or, maybe it's me. Odd how most of the "ebooks" you can download on gnutellanet/fast track/etcetc are books that have been scanned instead of "cracked" ebooks. http://www.freesklyarov.org - Free Dmitry! PGP Pub key: http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/DanielRPubKey.asc Fingerprint: 416D 4027 D635 AF51 F2BF 60DF 4D94 F7A0 9893 2848 From jssj2001 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 27 23:19:47 2001 From: jssj2001 at hotmail.com (y s) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Attempting to show the other side Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:27:05 Daniel Richards wrote: >Odd how most of the "ebooks" you can download on gnutellanet/fast >track/etcetc are books that have been scanned instead of "cracked" >ebooks. Compare it with his previous post: On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:32:27 Daniel Richards wrote: >Has anyone written another program that will "process" adobe's >ebooks into pdf/html/txt/etc? ...... >If anyone knows or is doing such a thing, could you please email >me (Off list, use PGP) Looks like Daniel Richards _regrets_ that "most of the 'ebooks' ... have been scanned instead of 'cracked' ebooks". Frankly, did not surprise me. However, did: after dozens of enthusiastic messages here, he had enough objectivity to look at the other side of the story. In my previous life in the USSR I've seen various "movements", both just and unjust. I know how difficult it was (and sometimes how much integrity it took) not to be carried away and retain some objectivity and independence. I wonder how many more "activists" here are able honestly look at the other side. -YS _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From tabindak at best.com Tue Aug 28 00:25:47 2001 From: tabindak at best.com (Tabinda N. Khan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [tabindak@best.com: Updated flyers] Message-ID: <20010828002547.A21300@shell9.ba.best.com> ----- Forwarded message from "Tabinda N. Khan" ----- Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 00:22:23 -0700 From: "Tabinda N. Khan" To: dmitry-plan@eff.org Subject: Updated flyers Message-ID: <20010828002223.A20347@shell9.ba.best.com> Reply-To: dmitry-plan@eff.org As promised, the flyers have been updated. One version is "pre-party" and contains SF fundraiser party and march info. The other is generic and can be used at the march since we haven't worked out too many details of the letter-writing event. People will be able to get that info from the Web site. I will be responsible for getting both the generic flyers and the petitions to the SF march on Thursday. All files are available at http://www.tabinda.com/freedmitry. Tabinda -- ----- End forwarded message ----- -- From kyhwana at world-net.co.nz Tue Aug 28 05:03:09 2001 From: kyhwana at world-net.co.nz (Daniel Richards) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Attempting to show the other side In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B8C313D.24635.1266CD1@localhost> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 27 Aug 2001, at 23:19, y s wrote: > On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:27:05 Daniel Richards wrote: > >Odd how most of the "ebooks" you can download on gnutellanet/fast > >track/etcetc are books that have been scanned instead of "cracked" > >ebooks. > > Compare it with his previous post: > > On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:32:27 Daniel Richards wrote: > >Has anyone written another program that will "process" adobe's > >ebooks into pdf/html/txt/etc? ...... > >If anyone knows or is doing such a thing, could you please email > >me (Off list, use PGP) > > Looks like Daniel Richards _regrets_ that "most of the 'ebooks' ... have > been scanned instead of 'cracked' ebooks". *cackle* Where did I mention the word 'regret'? I hate when people think im saying something that im not. - From what i've seen and heard, most of the ebooks floating around have been scanned, instead of 'cracked'. Which kind of makes protections on most ebooks useless. Anyway, I was after something like aebpr to host somewhere, partly because we don't have a DMCA here in NZ (yet). I've been on the recieving end of various C&D's before, so it's amusing to watch a bunch of lawyers get mad when they realise they can't do jack shit but threaten you. Anyway, that's getting offtopic. Im sure Mr Touretzky would also be interested in hosting any kind of source/binaries which do the same thing. If you're implying I was after something like aebpr to crack ebooks and p1r4t30rz them, you're sadly mistaken. It's more of a 'stick it to the man' thing, or Civil Disobediance, which in my home country isn't at this stage. > Frankly, did not surprise me. However, did: > after dozens of enthusiastic messages here, he had enough objectivity to > look at the other side of the story. > In my previous life in the USSR I've seen various "movements", both just and > unjust. I know how difficult it was (and sometimes how much integrity it > took) not to be carried away and retain some objectivity and independence. I > wonder how many more "activists" here are able honestly look at the other > side. Which other side is that? Is that like the other side of the DeCSS case? Where we (the people) are not allowed to reverse engineer and write our own player(s). The large companies (With their PR might) will try to spin this off as a piracy tool, only good for infringing on their copyrights (piracy). You need only look at the past to see that this is true. Please correct me if im wrong. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: N/A iQA/AwUBO4rfvU2U96CYkyhIEQJs1wCfZV/fseYJ/8758d27cM/knswVdhwAoPNQ hKk3VZeDLZMXich2X0d2v3mk =x2jF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- http://www.freesklyarov.org - Free Dmitry! PGP Pub key: http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/DanielRPubKey.asc Fingerprint: 416D 4027 D635 AF51 F2BF 60DF 4D94 F7A0 9893 2848 From rms at privacyfoundation.org Tue Aug 28 06:10:48 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NY Times: Copy-protection schemes cripple eBook sales Message-ID: <000a01c12fc2$ddd577c0$0f01a8c0@tiac.net> From larsg at eurorights.org Tue Aug 28 06:46:09 2001 From: larsg at eurorights.org (Lars Gaarden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA and market control (was: NY Times: Copy-protection schemes cripple eBook sales) References: <000a01c12fc2$ddd577c0$0f01a8c0@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3B8BA0A1.8080106@eurorights.org> Richard M. Smith wrote: > "I feel that was one of our greatest shortcomings," Mr. Brass said. He > promised that the next generation of hand-held computers using a > Microsoft operating system would be able to run the improved software. Really wonderful, huh? Microsoft is already controlling their monopoly through copyright law, draconian licensing deals, patents, trade secrets and the computer software network effect (that is, if everybody is using Word, the market value of a competing office suite is close to nil if it can't handle .doc files - the barrier to entry for competitors becomes the Chinese Wall). Now they'll get that same network effect by the fact that content providers will flock to the formats they control - and competitors will be at a severe disadvantage since it is now illegal to produce competing players for the same format. One of the problems of the DMCA and the EUCD that should get more attention, is that it is a powerful market control measure. It will essentially kill software and hardware vendors that want to produce competing products without entering a licensing agreement with the company that control the most widespread format. MS has near complete control of ISVs and hardware vendors because they control the operating system. EUCD/DMCA will give those that control the most popular digital formats even more control, since this monopoly is now protected by law. -- "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead. From vkatalov at elcomsoft.com Tue Aug 28 07:43:41 2001 From: vkatalov at elcomsoft.com (Vladimir Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From Oxana (thanks and information about The Defense Fund) In-Reply-To: <3B8BA0A1.8080106@eurorights.org> References: <000a01c12fc2$ddd577c0$0f01a8c0@tiac.net> <3B8BA0A1.8080106@eurorights.org> Message-ID: <104512559.20010828184341@elcomsoft.com> Hello all, Oxana, Dmitry's wife, asked me to post the following message to this list: -- I am sending this message to thank everyone who supports Dmitriy and our family. We never expected to receive support from so many people around the world. I am told that many of you asked how to help us at this difficult time. Please note that The Defense Fund has now been opened. Here is the relevant information: DMITRI DEFENSE FUND Wiring Instructions: First Union National Bank Philadelphia, PA ABA #031201467 Account #: 2000104359781 Account Name: Duane, Morris & Heckscher LLP Escrow Account *YOU MUST reference "The Dmitri Defense Fund - R0247-2" on all incoming wires.* Donation by Check: The Dmitri Defense Fund c/o Duane, Morris & Heckscher LLP 100 Spear Street, Suite 1500 San Francisco, California 94105 USA *Please make check payable to "DMH Escrow Agent for Dmitri Defense Fund"* Thank you very much again for your interest and support. From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Tue Aug 28 10:44:14 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NY Times: Copy-protection schemes cripple eBook sales In-Reply-To: <000a01c12fc2$ddd577c0$0f01a8c0@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Richard M. Smith wrote: > "I feel that was one of our greatest shortcomings," Mr. Brass said. He > promised that the next generation of hand-held computers using a > Microsoft operating system would be able to run the improved software. ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ You know what this means: in a few years, debilitating viruses will be spreading through great works of literature, rather than dippy "have your advice" emails. Course, these will be running on little dedicated handhelds, so they wouldn't be able to delete important files. Maybe they will slightly alter the text of the ebooks they infect, like inserting the word "friggin'" in grammatically appropriate places. "A little learning is a friggin' dangerous thing. Drink deep, or taste not the friggin' Pierian spring." Advanced viruses will preserve meter. Seriously, tho: the possibility of infecting a PDF file with an arbitrary executable is very real, given the pretty good odds that any reader has at least one buffer overrun issue. And this means ... one could theoretically smuggle AEBP into a handheld to remove protections on stored eBooks without a personal computer. Right? We've all heard concerns about moving from PCs to set-top boxen and specialized (closed) devices, preventing people from running arbitrary programs. Unless they really stamp all the bugs out, however, there is the possibility that special eBooks/Windows Media files/etc could subvert the devices' programming, at least for sufficiently complex devices that run this stuff in software rather than using a decoder chip. -S ["Hey! Some virus just removed all the dramatic irony from my copy of _Hamlet_! Oh, wait, this is the Mel Gibson version."] From freeds at wyrdwright.com Tue Aug 28 10:57:45 2001 From: freeds at wyrdwright.com (Barrington King) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New version of the "Drop the Charges!" pamphlet Message-ID: Hi, All: Our original pamphlet is a little dated and we got a couple of requests for a letter-sized edition, so we cut out some material and websites (sorry, guys) and reduced it to a three-panel document. Note that it is now a barrel and not zig-zag fold. This new version is now available at: http://www.wyrdwright.com/sklyarov/ There is a version citing the Defense Fund as well as one with a blank spot for local events. The postscript source is available for anyone who wants to convert them with a current version of ps2pdf. I don't have time to install it right now, and would appreciate the help, so get me those smaller, free-er versions please. Thanks for everyone who helped with this! Keep up the fight! BK From Mish.Coffey at gettyimages.com Tue Aug 28 11:02:01 2001 From: Mish.Coffey at gettyimages.com (Mish Coffey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] UNSUBSCRIBE Message-ID: <3733A4165DF8D411997300508B5C703EA670A4@nyexchg02.na3.gettywan.com> I AM TRYING TO UNSUBSCRIBE TO THE MAILING LIST IN WHICH I RECEIVE EVERY SINGLE E-MAIL FROM EVERYONE - I NEED THE DIGEST LIST - CAN SOMEONE HELP ME OUT PLEASE? thanks mish Mish Coffey Domestic Assignment Editor Getty Images News Services One Hudson Square 75 Varick St., 5th Floor New York, NY 10013 Tel 646 613 3763 Cell 917 318 0223 Toll Free 800 876 5115 Fax 646 613 3784 www.gettyimages.com mish.coffey@gettyimages.com This email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not disclose or use the information contained in it. If you have received this mail in error, please tell us immediately by return email and delete the document. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010828/77744b78/attachment.html From honeypot at online.no Tue Aug 28 11:10:04 2001 From: honeypot at online.no (honeypot) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] UNSUBSCRIBE Message-ID: <3B8C9437@epostleser.online.no> Hello. Turn off your caps lock and visit this page http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov Go to the 'free-sklyarov subscribers' header, type your mailaddy below where it says "To change your subscription (set options like digest and delivery modes, get a reminder of your password, or unsubscribe from free-sklyarov), enter your subscription email address" And change your delivery options. Therese, >===== Original Message From Mish Coffey ===== >I AM TRYING TO UNSUBSCRIBE TO THE MAILING LIST IN WHICH I RECEIVE EVERY SINGLE E-MAIL FROM EVERYONE - I NEED THE DIGEST LIST - CAN SOMEONE HELP ME OUT PLEASE? >thanks >mish > > Mish Coffey > Domestic Assignment Editor > Getty Images News Services > > One Hudson Square > 75 Varick St., 5th Floor > New York, NY 10013 > Tel 646 613 3763 > Cell 917 318 0223 > Toll Free 800 876 5115 > Fax 646 613 3784 > www.gettyimages.com > mish.coffey@gettyimages.com > > > >This email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not disclose or use the information contained in it. If you have received this mail in error, please tell us immediately by return email and delete the document. From rms at privacyfoundation.org Tue Aug 28 12:56:37 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: DMCA and market control In-Reply-To: <3B8BA0A1.8080106@eurorights.org> Message-ID: <000201c12ffb$8f2d6c20$0f01a8c0@tiac.net> Yes, I agree. I think that the problem of file format monopolies is a largely unexplored area of the DMCA. Richard -----Original Message----- From: Lars Gaarden [mailto:larsg@eurorights.org] Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 9:46 AM To: Richard M. Smith Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: DMCA and market control (was: NY Times: Copy-protection schemes cripple eBook sales) Richard M. Smith wrote: > "I feel that was one of our greatest shortcomings," Mr. Brass said. He > promised that the next generation of hand-held computers using a > Microsoft operating system would be able to run the improved software. Really wonderful, huh? Microsoft is already controlling their monopoly through copyright law, draconian licensing deals, patents, trade secrets and the computer software network effect (that is, if everybody is using Word, the market value of a competing office suite is close to nil if it can't handle .doc files - the barrier to entry for competitors becomes the Chinese Wall). Now they'll get that same network effect by the fact that content providers will flock to the formats they control - and competitors will be at a severe disadvantage since it is now illegal to produce competing players for the same format. One of the problems of the DMCA and the EUCD that should get more attention, is that it is a powerful market control measure. It will essentially kill software and hardware vendors that want to produce competing products without entering a licensing agreement with the company that control the most widespread format. MS has near complete control of ISVs and hardware vendors because they control the operating system. EUCD/DMCA will give those that control the most popular digital formats even more control, since this monopoly is now protected by law. -- "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead. From jays at panix.com Tue Aug 28 13:21:55 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interview with Dave Touretzky Message-ID: http://barrapunto.com/articles/01/08/28/179203.shtml oo--JS. From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Aug 28 15:06:38 2001 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] U.S. DoD [seems to be djf] looking for pro-Sklyarov pages? Message-ID: <20010828150638.D21648@linuxmafia.com> Maybe I should ask the DoD if they have a recent cached copy of my http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/dmitry-lnks textfile, since the best I could find in recovering from my 35GB HD meltdown was Google's cached copy from early July. ;-> Seriously, if anyone happens to have a more-recent copy, I'd appreciate getting it back. (Subsequent forwards snipped; text cleaned up a bit.) From: "mobythor" To: U.S. DoD looking for pro-Sklyarov pages? (english) by Mark Bialkowski 4:26pm Mon Aug 27 '01 mbialkowski@home.com For some reason, U.S. Department of Defense machines are searching the web for pages related to Dmitry Sklyarov, the latest victim of the DMCA. Webmasters: check your logs. Early Sunday morning, long before dawn, I glanced through the results Webalizer pumped out for my Code Red-tainted Web access logs. In the section on hits by region, there was a tiny chunk of hits from US military (.mil) hosts. Intrigued, I located the specific hostnames. Only two hosts accounted for the 47 recorded hits existing in my logs: 198.26.123.36 - BU-WCS1-KELLY.NIPR.MIL 198.26.123.37 - BU-WCS2-KELLY.NIPR.MIL The best surprises were yet to come. Searching through my logs using the wonderful Unix tool grep for the aforementioned IPs produced the following results: 198.26.123.37 - - [02/Aug/2001:13:55:35 -0400] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 337 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [02/Aug/2001:13:55:35 -0400] "GET /adobe.html HTTP/1.0" 200 2121 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [02/Aug/2001:13:55:39 -0400] "GET /data/files/defcon.ppt HTTP/1.0" 200 139776 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [05/Aug/2001:14:27:19 -0400] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 337 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [05/Aug/2001:14:27:19 -0400] "GET /adobe.html HTTP/1.0" 200 2121 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [05/Aug/2001:14:47:36 -0400] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 337 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [05/Aug/2001:14:47:39 -0400] "GET /data/files/defcon.ppt HTTP/1.0" 200 139776 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [07/Aug/2001:15:25:47 -0400] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 337 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [07/Aug/2001:15:25:49 -0400] "GET /adobe.html HTTP/1.0" 200 2121 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [07/Aug/2001:16:16:32 -0400] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 337 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [07/Aug/2001:16:16:40 -0400] "GET /data/files/defcon.ppt HTTP/1.0" 200 139776 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [08/Aug/2001:15:57:56 -0400] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 337 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [08/Aug/2001:15:57:57 -0400] "GET /adobe.html HTTP/1.0" 200 2121 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.36 - - [09/Aug/2001:16:33:12 -0400] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 337 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [09/Aug/2001:16:33:30 -0400] "GET /data/files/defcon.ppt HTTP/1.0" 200 139776 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.36 - - [09/Aug/2001:16:33:51 -0400] "GET /adobe.html HTTP/1.0" 200 2121 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [11/Aug/2001:20:34:28 -0400] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 337 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [11/Aug/2001:20:34:48 -0400] "GET /data/files/defcon.ppt HTTP/1.0" 200 139776 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [11/Aug/2001:20:35:11 -0400] "GET /adobe.html HTTP/1.0" 200 2121 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.36 - - [11/Aug/2001:20:35:42 -0400] "GET /adobe.html HTTP/1.0" 200 2121 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [12/Aug/2001:20:55:59 -0400] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 337 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [12/Aug/2001:20:55:59 -0400] "GET /adobe.html HTTP/1.0" 200 2121 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [13/Aug/2001:20:35:36 -0400] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 337 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [13/Aug/2001:20:35:39 -0400] "GET /data/files/defcon.ppt HTTP/1.0" 200 139776 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [15/Aug/2001:23:11:59 -0400] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 337 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [15/Aug/2001:23:11:59 -0400] "GET /adobe.html HTTP/1.0" 200 2121 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [15/Aug/2001:23:12:04 -0400] "GET /data/files/defcon.ppt HTTP/1.0" 200 139776 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [15/Aug/2001:23:12:34 -0400] "GET /data/files/defcon.ppt HTTP/1.0" 200 139776 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [16/Aug/2001:23:27:13 -0400] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 337 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [16/Aug/2001:23:27:16 -0400] "GET /data/files/defcon.ppt HTTP/1.0" 200 139776 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [17/Aug/2001:23:41:10 -0400] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 337 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [17/Aug/2001:23:41:11 -0400] "GET /adobe.html HTTP/1.0" 200 2121 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [18/Aug/2001:23:47:39 -0400] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 337 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [18/Aug/2001:23:47:39 -0400] "GET /adobe.html HTTP/1.0" 200 2121 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [18/Aug/2001:23:47:42 -0400] "GET /data/files/defcon.ppt HTTP/1.0" 200 139776 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [18/Aug/2001:23:48:14 -0400] "GET /data/files/defcon.ppt HTTP/1.0" 200 139776 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [20/Aug/2001:00:03:21 -0400] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 337 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [20/Aug/2001:00:03:24 -0400] "GET /data/files/defcon.ppt HTTP/1.0" 200 139776 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [20/Aug/2001:23:56:37 -0400] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 337 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [20/Aug/2001:23:56:38 -0400] "GET /adobe.html HTTP/1.0" 200 2121 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [22/Aug/2001:00:11:04 -0400] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 337 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [22/Aug/2001:00:11:05 -0400] "GET /adobe.html HTTP/1.0" 200 2121 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [22/Aug/2001:00:11:10 -0400] "GET /data/files/defcon.ppt HTTP/1.0" 200 139776 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [24/Aug/2001:00:17:32 -0400] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 337 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [24/Aug/2001:00:17:33 -0400] "GET /adobe.html HTTP/1.0" 200 2128 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [24/Aug/2001:00:17:36 -0400] "GET /data/files/defcon.ppt HTTP/1.0" 200 139776 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.37 - - [26/Aug/2001:00:19:19 -0400] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 337 "-" "Inktomi Search" For the confused, each line above can be read as: IP.address - - [Day/Month/Year:hour:minute:second -time zone] "File accessed" "-" "User agent" NIPR.mil hosts weren't just spidering my site, they were specifically looking for three files: robots.txt, a file that, if it exists, tells Web spiders what to avoid. adobe.html, my small page on the Dmitry Sklyarov arrest. defcon.ppt, my copy of Sklyarov's presentation on Adobe eBook "security" The spiders completely ignored my copy of Adobe PDF Processor. I don't know why. For more info on Dmitry Sklyarov, see freesklyarov.org, and keep in mind the known players in that case; Adobe and the Department of Justice. Further research through my four weeks of back logs showed those two machines to be the only ones with "Inktomi Search" user agents. Inktomi "develops and markets network infrastructure software essential for global enterprises and service providers." [1] Government organizations currently using Inktomi's products include "Argonne National Laboratory, Federal Communications Commission (FCC), Library of Congress, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), a division of the U.S. Department of Commerce, the U.S. Department of Energy, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, and the U.S Department of Agriculture [...] U.S. Department of State, U.S. Department of the Interior, U.S. Department of Commerce, U.S. Department of Transportation, U.S. Department of Education, U.S. Department of the Navy and the Executive Office of the President." [2] NIPR belongs to none of the above groups. NIPR.mil is the Network Operations Center for the U.S. Department of Defense, a division of the Defense Information Systems Agency. [3] The particular machines that my spider hits came from are housed at Kelly AFB in Texas. [4] All of this leads to a single question... why are Department of Defense computers being used to search for pages on the Sklyarov/Adobe case and Sklyarov's presentation? I encourage webmasters hosting pages about Dmitry, and copies of the PowerPoint presentation, to check their logs for hits from the 198.25.0.0 - 198.26.255.255 netblock; this is the block controlled by NIPR. I'm specifically interested in hits from Inktomi Search spiders, looking for files related to Sklyarov. I want to find out how widespread this activity is, and I intend to find out for what purpose this searching is taking place. -Mark Bialkowski [1] Inktomi's front page [2] Press release: "Inktomi Delivers Award-Winning Search Technology to Government Organizations," Aug. 20, 2001 [3] www.carnicom.com, "NIPR Activity Increases" [4] Information from tin.nu WHOIS server gateway For archives see: http://www.interesting-people.org/ From nbhs2 at i-2000.com Tue Aug 28 15:26:27 2001 From: nbhs2 at i-2000.com (Michael Scottaline) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] U.S. DoD [seems to be djf] looking for pro-Sklyarov pages? In-Reply-To: <20010828150638.D21648@linuxmafia.com> References: <20010828150638.D21648@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20010828182627.32854ec6.nbhs2@i-2000.com> On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:06:38 -0700 Rick Moen insightfully noted: RM> Maybe I should ask the DoD if they have a recent cached copy of my RM> http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/dmitry-lnks textfile, since the best I RM> could find in recovering from my 35GB HD meltdown was Google's cached RM> copy from early July. ;-> RM> RM> Seriously, if anyone happens to have a more-recent copy, I'd RM> appreciate RM> getting it back. ========================== Prolly just want to make a contribution to the defense fund, no? Bless their hearts Mike -- "Many loads of beer were brought. What disorder, whoring, fighting, killing, and dreadful idolatry took place there." Baltasar Rusow, Estonia, mid 16th Century From jtjm at xenoclast.org Tue Aug 28 15:50:27 2001 From: jtjm at xenoclast.org (Julian T. J. Midgley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] "Free Dmitry" protests in London and Edinburgh on Thursday, 30 August 2001 Message-ID: A copy of the press release for the UK protests in London and Edinburgh follows. Towards the bottom you'll also find a brief introduction to the Campaign for Digital Rights, an organisation formed by the UK Free Sklyarov Protesters to ensure that the EUCD (the European DMCA) is suitably revised before enactment. FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE August 28, 2001 Press Contact: Julian T. J. Midgley Phone: +44 7713 166000 "DROP THE CHARGES AGAINST DMITRY SKLYAROV" PROTESTS TO BE HELD IN LONDON AND EDINBURGH ON THURSDAY, 30 AUGUST 2001 Cambridge, England - Peaceful protesters from the Campaign for Digital Rights will gather again outside the US Embassy in London at 1330 on Thursday, 30 August, to demand that the charges against Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov be dropped, and the DMCA (the law under which he is charged) revised or repealed. A simultaneous event will take place in Edinburgh. All are welcome. Details of both protests are available at: http://uk.eurorights.org/calendar/ These protests reflect international outrage at Dmitry's arrest- similar protests will be held on the same day in Russia in Moscow, and in the USA in San Jose, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Boston, Black Rock City and Reno. (See http://freesklyarov.org/calendar/ for details). Background ---------- Dmitry Sklyarov's arrest on July 16, for a violation of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA), has chilled academic research into cryptography on both sides of the Atlantic, and led UK academics and programmers to call for conferences to be held outside the USA so that they can attend them without fear of lawsuits or arrest. Alan Cox, the prominent Linux kernel programmer, has resigned from the committee of USENIX, the Advanced Computing Systems Association, since he no longer feels able to attend USENIX events in the USA for fear of prosecution under the DMCA for his work on the Linux kernel. Similar fears prompted Dutch Cryptographer Niels Ferguson to decide not to publish an academic paper describing security weaknesses in a content protection mechanism. In the United States, a Professor Felten was threatened with legal action under the DMCA if he published a paper describing flaws in a digital watermarking scheme. Dmitry himself will be arraigned on the 30th in San Jose, and faces a fine of up to $500,000 and up to five years imprisonment if he is found guilty; this for writing a program that, at the very worst, is nothing more than a digital crowbar, with perfectly legitimate uses. He is not charged with copyright infringement, nor has any copyright infringement been attributed to the users of the program, distributed by Elcomsoft, a Russian software company. Adobe Systems Inc, the company which sells the eBook software at which Dmitry's program was targetted, and which filed the original complaint with the FBI, has since joined the Electronic Frontier Foundation in calling for the charges against Dmitry to be dropped. Nevertheless, the case proceeds, being seen by the recording and publishing industries as an important test case for the new law, and by programmers, academics, librarians and many others worldwide as a dangerous threat to traditional freedoms. With foreign nationals being arrested for reverse engineering software programs, and academics being gagged by threats from publishing companies, the United States of America is no longer "The Land of the Free". Traditionally, those of us in Europe would sit back smugly at this point and laugh quietly at yet another ridiculous piece of American legislation that doesn't affect us. This time, we can afford to do no such thing. Not only does the DMCA itself stretch its tentacles across the Atlantic to silence our academics and still the fingers of our programmers, but, in less than 16 months, the European Copyright Directive (the EUCD) will be enacted in the EU member states, with near identical provisions forbidding the circumvention of "copy protection mechanisms". The Campaign for Digital Rights ------------------------------- The UK Campaign for Digital Rights has formed to ensure that by the time that the EUCD is passed into law, it has been revised to the extent that it no longer threatens academic research or the public's ability to make fair use of electronic books, music and videos. It is important to stress that we respect absolutely the principal of copyright; many of our members are programmers and authors whose works enjoy the traditional protections of copyright - we do not condone copyright infringement in any form. However, we firmly believe that by making the circumvention of copy protection mechanisms a crime, laws such as the DMCA and EUCD threaten legitimate academic research and the work of respectable computer programmers. Furthermore, by effectively prohibiting discussion of the weaknesses of particular copy protection schemes, these laws practically guarantee that copy protection mechanisms will be weak and easily broken, to the detriment of the very authors and musicians whose work they are designed to protect. The Campaign for Digital Rights is working together with industry, academics, the Foundation for Information Policy Research (http://www.fipr.org/), and similar organisations throughout Europe and America. For more information, mailing lists, et al, see: http://uk.eurorights.org/ -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org/ Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F Beware the European Copyright Directive: http://uk.eurorights.org/ From wild at eff.org Tue Aug 28 17:14:10 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry Indicted Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010828171343.03e73598@pop3.norton.antivirus> Dmitry Sklyarov was indicted this afternoon. We will send more information soon. Acquit Dmitry and Reform the DMCA, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- From larsg at eurorights.org Tue Aug 28 17:56:35 2001 From: larsg at eurorights.org (Lars Gaarden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] U.S. DoD [seems to be djf] looking for pro-Sklyarov pages? References: <20010828150638.D21648@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <009101c13025$73ff02e0$aa847a94@online.no> > From: "mobythor" > To: > > U.S. DoD looking for pro-Sklyarov pages? > (english) > 198.26.123.36 - BU-WCS1-KELLY.NIPR.MIL > 198.26.123.37 - BU-WCS2-KELLY.NIPR.MIL > I encourage webmasters hosting pages about Dmitry, and copies of the > PowerPoint presentation, to check their logs for hits from the 198.25.0.0 > - 198.26.255.255 netblock; this is the block controlled by NIPR. I'm > specifically interested in hits from Inktomi Search spiders, looking for > files related to Sklyarov. I want to find out how widespread this > activity is, and I intend to find out for what purpose this searching is > taking place. > > -Mark Bialkowski I can confirm that the same bot has hit eurorights.org. On average a couple of hits per day. 72 unique requests the last month, don't have older logs so I don't know when it started. IP addresses were 198.26.123.36 through .38 URLs they are hitting: / /eudmca/ (History about the EU copyright directive) /eudmca/CopyrightDirective.html (Local copy of the EU copyright directive) /robots.txt In addition, I found a single non-spider hit from the 198.26 netblock: 198.26.123.36 - - [22/Aug/2001:02:25:31 +0200] "GET /eudmca/CopyrightDirective.html HTTP/1.0" 200 57660 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" As you say, this is a directed scan and not a regular spider since it doesn't follow any of the other links on the / page. -- LarsG From wild at eff.org Tue Aug 28 18:16:01 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF: Grand Jury Charges Russian Company and Programmer Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010828181556.03edf008@pop3.norton.antivirus> Electronic Frontier Foundation Media Release For Immediate Release: August 28, 2001 Contacts: Cindy Cohn, EFF Legal Director, cindy@eff.org, +1 415 436-9333 x108 (office), +1 415 823-2148 (cell) Will Doherty, EFF Online Activist / Media Relations, press@eff.org, +1 415 436-9333 x111 (office), +1 415 794-6064 (cell) Grand Jury Charges Russian Company and Programmer Adds Conspiracy to Circumvention Trafficking Charge San Jose, California - A United States grand jury this afternoon indicted Russian company Elcomsoft along with previously jailed programmer Dmitry Sklyarov on charges of trafficking and conspiracy to traffic in a copyright circumvention device. Since the grand jury handed down a five-count indictment, Sklyarov -- who is out of custody on $50,000 bail -- could face a prison term of up to twenty-five years and a US $2,250,000 fine. As a corporation, Elcomsoft faces a potential US $2,500,000 fine. "We have been hearing from many people about lawful uses of Elcomsoft's computer program," explained Cindy Cohn, Electronic Frontier Foundation Legal Director. "It's outrageous that the unconstitutional Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) could put this young man away for much of the rest of his life." "We were hoping that the government would see the wisdom and justice in not pursuing a case against Sklyarov," said his attorney, Joseph M. Burton of Duane Morris in San Francisco. "Even if one were to ignore the serious legal questions involving the DMCA, this case hardly cries out for criminal prosecution. Sklyarov's and Elcomsoft's actions are not conduct that Congress intended to criminalize. We will vigorously contest these charges." Sklyarov and his attorneys will appear at an arraignment scheduled for 9:30 AM Pacific time this Thursday, August 30, with US Magistrate Judge Richard Seeborg presiding, in courtroom 4, 5th floor of the Federal District Court for the Northern District of California, San Jose Branch, 280 South 1st Street, in San Jose, California. Well-dressed observers plan to attend the arraignment and nonviolent protests are scheduled in Moscow (Russia), London (England), Boston, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and Black Rock City, Nevada. Directions and map to San Jose Federal Building: http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/CourtInfo.nsf/6f311f8841e7da2488256405006827f0/f3b46c67b334132e88256682007f6ba9?OpenDocument Background on the Sklyarov case: http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/ Calendar of protests related to the Sklyarov case: http://freesklyarov.org/calendar/ About EFF: The Electronic Frontier Foundation is the leading civil liberties organization working to protect rights in the digital world. Founded in 1990, EFF actively encourages and challenges industry and government to support free expression, privacy, and openness in the information society. EFF is a member-supported organization and maintains one of the most linked-to websites in the world: http://www.eff.org/ - end - From mlc67 at columbia.edu Tue Aug 28 18:24:35 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interview with Dave Touretzky In-Reply-To: ; from jays@panix.com on Tue, Aug 28, 2001 at 04:21:55PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010828212435.D24748@fir> A translation of the introductary text (the English version of the interview itself is already there, at the bottom of the page): Dave Touretsky, maintainer of the well-known Gallery of CSS Descramblers and of the new Gallery of Adobe Remidies (about the case of Dmitry Sklyarov and Adobe) has responded to the questions that the readers of BarraPunto [spanish for slashdot] asked some days ago. Within his comments (incuded in the body of the article), he brings my attention to his concern with the idea of the Trusted PC, he alerts us to the possible prohibition of modification of PC hardware, of the loss of anonymity on the Internet and its dangers... finally, he calls for the breaking of protection methods and for the publication of the cracks, offering his galleries to publish them. On Tue, Aug 28, 2001 at 04:21:55PM -0400, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > http://barrapunto.com/articles/01/08/28/179203.shtml > > oo--JS. > -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // current location: sharon, ma, us // ph: +1 (646) 382-7220 // FREE DMITRY! See http://freesklyarov.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010828/c9dc5308/attachment.pgp From gbroiles at well.com Tue Aug 28 19:34:54 2001 From: gbroiles at well.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] U.S. DoD [seems to be djf] looking for pro-Sklyarov pages? In-Reply-To: <20010828150638.D21648@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010828192922.03b6a9b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 03:06 PM 8/28/2001 -0700, Rick Moen wrote: >From: "mobythor" <> >To: > >For some reason, U.S. Department of Defense machines are searching the web >for pages related to Dmitry Sklyarov, the latest victim of the >DMCA. Webmasters: check your logs. I've seen a modest amount of traffic from them, across several days, to my pictures taken at the rally at Adobe HQ. Unfortunately, I clobbered some web pages the other day inadvertently, including those pictures - I have other copies, and could recreate the pages, but I think interest has died down. The images in the /tn/ subdirectory are all thumbnails - I don't see an indication that they requested the full-size images. emma# grep 198.26.123 error_log [Thu Aug 23 10:27:22 2001] [error] [client 198.26.123.36] File does not exist: /var/www/htdocs/default/robots.txt [Sat Aug 25 10:30:21 2001] [error] [client 198.26.123.36] File does not exist: /var/www/htdocs/default/robots.txt [Sun Aug 26 10:33:26 2001] [error] [client 198.26.123.36] File does not exist: /var/www/htdocs/default/robots.txt [Tue Aug 28 10:53:11 2001] [error] [client 198.26.123.36] File does not exist: /var/www/htdocs/default/robots.txt emma# grep 198.26.123 access_log 198.26.123.36 - - [23/Aug/2001:10:27:22 -0700] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 272 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.36 - - [23/Aug/2001:10:27:24 -0700] "GET /dmca/ HTTP/1.0" 200 19227 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:21 -0700] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 272 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:23 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-104S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 5038 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:23 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-106S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 4881 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:23 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-107S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 4963 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:23 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-105S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 5188 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:23 -0700] "GET /dmca/ HTTP/1.0" 200 19227 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:23 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-108S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 5870 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:23 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-109S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 6014 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:23 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-110S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 6032 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:23 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-111S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 5697 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:24 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-113S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 6080 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:24 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-114S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 6230 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:24 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-112S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 5411 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:25 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-115S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 4163 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:25 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-116S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 5583 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:25 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-121S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 3438 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:25 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-122S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 7567 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:25 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-123S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 5968 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:25 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-124S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 4542 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:25 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-125S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 5739 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:25 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-126S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 4672 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:26 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-127S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 5174 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:26 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-128S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 4024 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:26 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-129S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 5280 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:26 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-130S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 6308 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:26 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-136S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 5737 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:26 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-137S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 5354 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:27 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-142S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 3549 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:27 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-145S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 3314 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:27 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-143S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 6835 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:27 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-144S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 6254 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:27 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-140S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 6313 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:27 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-141S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 6537 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:27 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-146S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 5422 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:27 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-147S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 3781 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:27 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-148S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 4317 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:28 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-149S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 4814 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:28 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-151S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 4353 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:28 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-152S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 5349 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:28 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-153S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 3511 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:28 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-120S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 6475 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:28 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-131S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 5775 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:28 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-132S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 6598 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:29 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-133S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 5949 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:29 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-134S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 7568 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:29 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-135S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 6938 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:29 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-150S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 3801 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:29 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-138S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 6593 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:29 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-139S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 4436 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:29 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-119S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 6371 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:29 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-154S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 5314 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:30 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-155S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 6379 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:30 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-156S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 6506 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:30 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-157S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 3751 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:30 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-158S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 4280 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:30 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-159S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 4473 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:30 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-161S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 3795 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:30 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-162S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 6659 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:30 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-163S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 6910 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:31 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-117S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 5844 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [25/Aug/2001:10:30:40 -0700] "GET /dmca/tn/MVC-118S.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 6586 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" 198.26.123.36 - - [26/Aug/2001:10:33:26 -0700] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 272 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.36 - - [26/Aug/2001:10:33:27 -0700] "GET /dmca/ HTTP/1.0" 200 19227 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.36 - - [28/Aug/2001:10:53:11 -0700] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 272 "-" "Inktomi Search" 198.26.123.36 - - [28/Aug/2001:10:53:11 -0700] "GET /dmca/ HTTP/1.0" 200 19227 "-" "Inktomi Search" emma# -- Greg Broiles gbroiles@well.com "We have found and closed the thing you watch us with." -- New Delhi street kids From kfoss at planetpdf.com Tue Aug 28 20:28:11 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FYI> Planet eBook Updates In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010828192922.03b6a9b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010828192922.03b6a9b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: FYI> at Planet eBook: Sklyarov, ElcomSoft indicted for DMCA violations U.S. Government brings five charges for eBook security circumvention http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=213 US DOJ Press Release and Indictment (pdf) http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=214 ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Tue Aug 28 20:21:28 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] U.S. DOD looking for pro-Sklyarov pages Message-ID: Here are my logs... I've got other things the feds are interested in, it seems. moseng:[...]/httpd/logs$ grep "198.26." access_log 198.26.122.30 - - [17/Jul/2000:14:02:03 -0500] "GET /decss/css-descramble.pdb HTTP/1.0" 200 10882 198.26.132.101 - - [28/Nov/2000:16:14:37 -0600] "GET /decss/ HTTP/1.0" 200 18190 198.26.132.101 - - [08/Jan/2001:13:15:12 -0600] "GET /decss/ HTTP/1.0" 200 18190 198.26.122.12 - - [07/Mar/2001:02:02:08 -0600] "GET /decss/css-descramble.pdb HTTP/1.0" 200 10882 198.26.132.101 - - [12/Mar/2001:13:35:07 -0600] "GET /decss/css-descramble.pdb HTTP/1.0" 200 10882 Here are two other results that will either stoke your paranoia or will encourage you to reconsider the significance of the log entries: moseng:[...]/httpd/logs$ grep ".mil" access_log -c 2869 moseng:[...]/httpd/logs$ grep ".gov" access_log -c 2152 Those are the number of hits I've gotten from the two domains in the past year or so (including some from .gov.uk and .gov.au!). I have gotten some spidering activity recently from indus.sba.gov in the dmitry category... but log entries are harmless. It's clear to me that the DOJ'll put whoever they want in prison at their whim. If you anyone can manage to identify why the spidering is occurring and at who's direction, I'd be impressed--but unless they start actively pursuing protesters in RL, little will come of such efforts. Keep it under your hat, but I'll leave my stats page up for a day or two for people interested in who visits an occassionally-slashdotted-but-otherwise-unadvertised host of DeCSS and Dmitry events. http://www.underwhelm.org/statum/ Military and government visitors show up every month. People who wish me to continue my efforts in supporting the first amendment, etc will kindly refrain from attempting to compromise my system. Free Dmitry. Repeal the DMCA. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ From cagednemesis at notboring.com Tue Aug 28 20:40:07 2001 From: cagednemesis at notboring.com (john knox) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry, an accidental hero Message-ID: <20010829034007.1EAF736FA@sitemail.everyone.net> This article argues that the plight of Dmitry will serve as a turning point in the acceptance of the DMCA. It also highlight reasonably well the reasons why Dmitry can not be found guilty. 'It is not clear that he was involved in 'trafficking' or that he can reasonably be accused of 'aiding and abetting,' nor is it clear that the US have the jurisdiction to try him. Even if all of that were perfectly transparent, there still remains a very strong argument that the software was developed for legal use and thus not primarily developed with the intention of robbing copyright holders of their ownership. However, even if all of these objections were to be overlooked, there is still the matter of whether the law is in any respect a fair one. With so much doubt surrounding this issue, can it be right for a Russian programmer to be incarcerated in what would amount to a test case conviction. ' http://www.dotcomscoop.com/wtaw828.html _____________________________________________________________ Send Cool Stuff to Friends: http://GreetingGrams.com Daily Cool Stuff: http://DailySpark.com Best Web Freebies: http://NoCostStuff.com Bored? Then Go To: http://notboring.com Riddles/Puzzles: http://iRIDDLER.com From mickeym at mindspring.com Tue Aug 28 20:46:11 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (Mickey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov Indicted Message-ID: <3B8C6583.72A58BC8@mindspring.com> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010828/tc/hacker_convention_arrest_5.html From admin at seattle-chat.com Tue Aug 28 21:11:23 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] U.S. DOD looking for pro-Sklyarov pages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ok this is freaking me out, this is my log: access_log.4:198.26.132.101 - - [30/Jul/2001:16:57:13 -0700] "GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 1321 "http://dir.yahoo.com/Regional/U_S__States/Washington/Cities/Seattle/Communi ty/Cyberculture/Chat/" "Mozilla/4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U)" access_log.4:198.26.132.101 - - [30/Jul/2001:16:57:13 -0700] "GET /title_1.htm HTTP/1.0" 200 509 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" access_log.4:198.26.132.101 - - [30/Jul/2001:16:57:13 -0700] "GET /Top.htm HTTP/1.0" 200 351 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" access_log.4:198.26.132.101 - - [30/Jul/2001:16:57:13 -0700] "GET /frame_2.htm HTTP/1.0" 200 1197 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" access_log.4:198.26.132.101 - - [30/Jul/2001:16:57:13 -0700] "GET /index2.htm HTTP/1.0" 200 3377 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" access_log.4:198.26.132.101 - - [30/Jul/2001:16:57:14 -0700] "GET /background.JPG HTTP/1.0" 200 3084 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" access_log.4:198.26.132.101 - - [30/Jul/2001:16:57:14 -0700] "GET /seattle-chat.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 9766 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" access_log.4:198.26.132.101 - - [30/Jul/2001:16:57:14 -0700] "GET /Buttons/chat.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 5131 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" access_log.4:198.26.132.101 - - [30/Jul/2001:16:57:14 -0700] "GET /Buttons/community.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 6480 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" access_log.4:198.26.132.101 - - [30/Jul/2001:16:57:14 -0700] "GET /Buttons/e-mail.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 5299 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" access_log.4:198.26.132.101 - - [30/Jul/2001:16:57:14 -0700] "GET /Buttons/guest_book.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 6645 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" access_log.4:198.26.132.101 - - [30/Jul/2001:16:57:14 -0700] "GET /Buttons/home.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 5137 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" access_log.4:198.26.132.101 - - [30/Jul/2001:16:57:15 -0700] "GET /boycott_adobe.html HTTP/1.0" 200 408 "http://www.seattle-chat.com/title_1.htm" "Mozilla/4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U)" access_log.4:198.26.132.101 - - [30/Jul/2001:16:57:16 -0700] "GET /free-sklyarov-1.png HTTP/1.0" 200 3354 "-" "Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;)" access_log.4:198.26.132.101 - - [30/Jul/2001:16:57:19 -0700] "GET /javachat/javachat.html HTTP/1.0" 200 3670 "http://www.seattle-chat.com/frame_2.htm" "Mozilla/4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U)" access_log.4:198.26.132.101 - - [30/Jul/2001:16:57:21 -0700] "GET /javachat/jirc_nss.zip HTTP/1.0" 200 35996 "-" "Mozilla/4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U)" access_log.4:198.26.132.101 - - [30/Jul/2001:16:57:35 -0700] "GET /javachat/IRClogo.gif HTTP/1.0" 200 2693 "-" "Mozilla/4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U)" -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of nobody Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 8:21 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] U.S. DOD looking for pro-Sklyarov pages Here are my logs... I've got other things the feds are interested in, it seems. moseng:[...]/httpd/logs$ grep "198.26." access_log 198.26.122.30 - - [17/Jul/2000:14:02:03 -0500] "GET /decss/css-descramble.pdb HTTP/1.0" 200 10882 198.26.132.101 - - [28/Nov/2000:16:14:37 -0600] "GET /decss/ HTTP/1.0" 200 18190 198.26.132.101 - - [08/Jan/2001:13:15:12 -0600] "GET /decss/ HTTP/1.0" 200 18190 198.26.122.12 - - [07/Mar/2001:02:02:08 -0600] "GET /decss/css-descramble.pdb HTTP/1.0" 200 10882 198.26.132.101 - - [12/Mar/2001:13:35:07 -0600] "GET /decss/css-descramble.pdb HTTP/1.0" 200 10882 Here are two other results that will either stoke your paranoia or will encourage you to reconsider the significance of the log entries: moseng:[...]/httpd/logs$ grep ".mil" access_log -c 2869 moseng:[...]/httpd/logs$ grep ".gov" access_log -c 2152 Those are the number of hits I've gotten from the two domains in the past year or so (including some from .gov.uk and .gov.au!). I have gotten some spidering activity recently from indus.sba.gov in the dmitry category... but log entries are harmless. It's clear to me that the DOJ'll put whoever they want in prison at their whim. If you anyone can manage to identify why the spidering is occurring and at who's direction, I'd be impressed--but unless they start actively pursuing protesters in RL, little will come of such efforts. Keep it under your hat, but I'll leave my stats page up for a day or two for people interested in who visits an occassionally-slashdotted-but-otherwise-unadvertised host of DeCSS and Dmitry events. http://www.underwhelm.org/statum/ Military and government visitors show up every month. People who wish me to continue my efforts in supporting the first amendment, etc will kindly refrain from attempting to compromise my system. Free Dmitry. Repeal the DMCA. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From pedro at tastytronic.net Tue Aug 28 21:46:29 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] U.S. DOD looking for pro-Sklyarov pages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010828234629.K803@tastytronic.net> Quoting Charles Eakins: > Ok this is freaking me out, this is my log: From pedro at tastytronic.net Tue Aug 28 21:54:19 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thursday protests for Chicago... Message-ID: <20010828235419.M803@tastytronic.net> If you are interested in joining in Thursday protests downtown in Chicago, please visit: http://ufo.chicago.il.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sklyarov-chicago/ And subscribe to the list. We'll be releasing information tomorrow. pedro -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- http://www.freesklyarov.org/ In prison for exercising his right to "fair use." From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Aug 28 22:14:02 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] U.S. DOD looking for pro-Sklyarov pages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010828221402.L32544@zork.net> I am curious about what this spider is, but on the other hand, government interest in your web site is not always sinister. Examples: * I've met two different computer crime investigators from AFOSI http://www.dtic.mil/afosi/ who were both very nice and interesting to talk to; one of them said he hoped Dmitry Sklyarov would be freed. * Today at LinuxWorld, two government employees expressed interest in my work; one is in military intelligence and one in Federal law enforcement. They both identified themselves openly, by name, organization, and title, and both said encouraging things about what I was doing. It would be great if more people in the U.S. armed forces wanted Dmitry Sklyarov free! -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From tom at lemuria.org Tue Aug 28 23:41:42 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] fair music system Message-ID: <20010829084142.B19048@lemuria.org> there was some discussion here on a fairer/more open/etc music distribution system. bob smart wanted to start a list, but he seems to be offline and nobody I know about has reached him recently. so I've set up a mailing list myself. if you are interested in this system, please contact me offlist and I'll add you to the list. From kmself at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 29 00:05:12 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:36 2005 Subject: Press coverage: SF Gate (was Re: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov Indicted) In-Reply-To: <3B8C6583.72A58BC8@mindspring.com>; from mickeym@mindspring.com on Tue, Aug 28, 2001 at 11:46:11PM -0400 References: <3B8C6583.72A58BC8@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20010829000512.A20355@navel.introspect> Also, front page at SF Gate, AP story: Sklyarov To Stand Trial http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2001/08/28/state1938EDT0147.DTL&type=tech_article BRIAN BERGSTEIN, Associated Press Writer Tuesday, August 28, 2001 Breaking News Sections (08-28) 18:52 PDT SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) -- In a closely watched electronic publishing case, a federal grand jury Tuesday indicted Russian computer programmer Dmitry Sklyarov and his employer on charges they broke the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Sklyarov, 27, and ElComSoft Co. Ltd. of Moscow were charged with five counts of copyright violations for writing and selling a program that lets users of Adobe Systems' electronic-book software bypass copyright protections imposed by publishers. <...> -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010829/5b7d4648/attachment.pgp From ca2027001 at sneakemail.com Tue Aug 28 20:14:40 2001 From: ca2027001 at sneakemail.com (ca2027001@sneakemail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] U.S. DOD looking for pro-Sklyarov pages Message-ID: <134701173.999069285805.JavaMail.root@boots> >I am curious about what this spider is, but on the other >hand, government interest in your web site is not always >sinister. Couldn't somebody could just be browsing these pages while they're at work at the pentagon???? Phillip K. From kmself at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 29 00:44:52 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] U.S. DOD looking for pro-Sklyarov pages In-Reply-To: <20010828234629.K803@tastytronic.net>; from pedro@tastytronic.net on Tue, Aug 28, 2001 at 11:46:29PM -0500 References: <20010828234629.K803@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: <20010829004451.B20696@navel.introspect> on Tue, Aug 28, 2001 at 11:46:29PM -0500, Peter A. Peterson II (pedro@tastytronic.net) wrote: > Quoting Charles Eakins: > > Ok this is freaking me out, this is my log: > > >From the Chicago pages. There are many, many entries like this. > > bu-wcs2-kelly.nipr.mil - - [22/Aug/2001:03:46:18 -0500] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 404 204 > bu-wcs2-kelly.nipr.mil - - [22/Aug/2001:03:46:18 -0500] "GET /free-sklyarov/chicago-protest-information.txt HTTP/1.0" 200 8830 NIPRNet is the Non-classified IP Router Network. It's essentially a set of gateways through which unclassified Pentegon internet traffic travels. It has a counterpart, SIPRNet, the Secure IP Router Network. Whether NIPRNet is a gateway for spooks or not I really don't know. But it's likely that there's going to be a large number of internal sites routed through the NIPRNet gateways. The fact that a small number of documents are apparently being searched for does suggest some for of intelligence gathering. My own intelligence gathering resource of choice is Google: http://www.google.com/search?q=niprnet Cheers. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010829/735e2b34/attachment.pgp From huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com Wed Aug 29 01:08:15 2001 From: huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com (Huaiyu Zhu) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Attempting to show the other side In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > If you follow tech news, you've read a lot in the past few weeks about > Dmitri Skylarov. > > Here's the other side of the story. > > http://lumthemad.net/story.php?story=2252 The other sides This article claims to be showing the other side of the story. It ceremoniously acknowledges that the DMCA is a bad law, saying nothing about why it is bad and how it could be improved. Then it spends most of its volume giving examples of intellectual theft. It concludes by talking generalities like there are two sides to any story and nothing is black and white, and so on. It missed the point entirely, probably intentionally. It is well known that most human conflicts, in any form and on any scale, involve conflict of interests. This is true from family feuds to world wars. The fact that there is always another side of the story is in itself nothing new. Many of the problems cited concern either the society (if it discourages authors from creation) or distributors (if it reduces their profits). The latter in turn may also concern the society if the distributors make useful contributions to the dissemination of the work. However, the real issue here is not that the other side exists, but the fact that DMCA allows one side to assert its rights in absolute terms, taking actions without compensating collateral damage to any other side. This is exactly _why_ DMCA is a bad law. Any dictator can cite the examples of crime victims to justify Draconian laws. What they don't show is how such laws also deprives the real rights from real people many times more. The devil is in the details. Here the details are in _how_ the laws balance the conflicting interests of various groups. On "this side" of the story, many people on this list have genuine interests in equitable schemes for compensation of "intellectual properties". In fact, most of programmers and researchers live on "intellectual properties", by definition. On the "other side" of the story, those powerful entities have single-minded concerns about any perceived loss of profit from "IP theft". The measures they take and the laws they sponsor show little concern about how they infringe, erodes and deprive any number of legitimate users of their historically held rights. It should be reminded time and again that there are more than two sides of the story. A law that allows side A to win over side B by infringing everybody's rights, including that of side C, is bad. It is bad because it is unbalanced. It is bad because it ignores the rights of other sides. DMCA is bad precisely because it is such a law. Saying everything is a shade of gray gives a very simplistic one dimensional view of the world. Saying everything is gray without specifying its value gives a zero dimensional world. This kind of tactic is often used by people on the losing side of argument not wanting to admit. To really solve the problem we have to recognize the multidimensional nature of the problem. The solution must take into account _all_ sides of the problem. It is high time for "the other side" to recognize this fact and realistically address such concerns. Huaiyu Zhu From kmself at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 29 01:58:27 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Of indictments and Adobe Message-ID: <20010829015827.C20696@navel.introspect> One of the interesting aspects of press coverage I've seen to date of the Sklyarov/Elcomsoft indictments is prominent mention of Adobe's involvement in Dimitry's arrest. While I recognize that we are currently focusing our actions on securing Dima's release and providing for his defense, and in repealing the 1201(a) and 1201(b) sections of the DMCA, it seems that putting some heat on Adobe could be useful. I've written the following letter to Bruce Chizen, President and CEO of Adobe. I'd encourage others to make their feelings known. (I'd also appreciate criticism and/or feedback on the letter). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bruce Chizen President & CEO Adobe Corporation 345 Park Avenue San Jose, California 95110-2704 Dear Mr. Chizen: You got him in, now get him out. As you are no doubt aware, Dimitry Sklyarov and his employer, Elcomsoft, were indicted Tuesday, August 28, under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). This is a black-letter day in the US: corporate motives are quashing free speech rights, and intellectual freedom. The actions against Sklyarov and Elcomsoft were initiated at the request of Adobe. I am aware that Adobe has proven itself a purveyor of cheap talk by issuing a joint press release with the EFF, in which Adobe states is no longer supports the persecution of Sklyarov. A statement, I might add, which is not even visible on the Adobe website Press page. As one of the protesters outside Adobe's headquarters, I'm happy to have been part of the effort that gained this meager reward. I'm sorry, but having pulled the trigger, saying you didn't mean it and walking away simply isn't enough. Adobe Corporation is directly responsible for getting Dimitry Sklyarov and Elcomsoft into this mess. In my eyes and those of freedom loving Americans and citizens of the world, you are not absolved of your complicity in this act until you take direct, and effective, actions to provide for his and his company's defense, and secure acquittal of both Sklyarov and Elcomsoft on all charges. Moreover, Adobe must work to rectify the excesses of the DMCA, in particular sections 1201(a), which prohibits any act of technical circumvention, regardless of the individuals rights under copyright; and 1201(b), which broadly prohibits trade and even speech in a whole class of areas. This on the grounds that it might harm a market which has utterly failed to materialize, according to Tuesday's New York Times (David D. Kirkpatrick, "Forecasts of an E-Book Era Were, It Seems, Premature", The New York Times, August 28, 2001). It's an act of supreme arrogance that pits the economic benefits of 40,000 eBook readers against the constitutional rights of 285 million Americans, or, as it appears Adobe believes it can apply this fascistic law without regard to international borders, the six billion inhabitants of this planet. Even more disturbing: the conditions of 1201(a) and (b), aside from their unconstitutional aspects, go far beyond satisfying the requirements of the 1998 WIPO treaty on which the DMCA is based. This fact is endorsed by discussions among other WIPO signatory nations which have yet to enact their own DMCA legislation, and who are looking to the US experience as a cautionary tale. It is not necessary to trample on the rights of billions in order to establish copyright protections of media in digital form. The best current legislative bet against DMCA excesses is a bill introduced by Congressman Rick Boucher (D-VA). Adobe must support these much needed reforms. As I said: you got him into this, now get him out. Sincerely, Karsten M. Self Free Dimitry!! Boycott Adobe!! Repeal the DMCA!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010829/b12c7923/attachment.pgp From debug at centras.lt Wed Aug 29 04:21:42 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Attempting to show the other side In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <215332030.20010829132142@centras.lt> HZ> It is well known that most human conflicts, in any form and on any HZ> scale, involve conflict of interests. This is true from family feuds to HZ> world wars. The fact that there is always another side of the story is HZ> in itself nothing new. I like your philosophical posts Here is my contribution to it Well known example of interests conflict 1) customers do not want to pay for nothing ( to pay too much for too little work, for too little effort ) 2) producers do not want to work for nothing ( to work too much for too little money ) To balance this conflict one has to give customers control over the 1) and give producers control over the 2) In a free market this is done by leaving decision right to producers on what and how they produce/sell and by leaving decision right to customers on what and how they buy and use. Copyright laws try to solve 2) but do it at a price of the 1) I can't agree to restrict customers control over 1) If i buy a program i can use it as i like ( copy it , debug it, sell it whatever i want). If you say me that i buy not a program but a right to use it then please do not give me your program but just a use (a service). I have nothing against encrypting your products but in this case you sell me encrypted product and if i can decrypt then it would be better for you to think twice before you give it to me. It's not my problem because i have my natural right to control 1) If you want to restrict customers control over 1) then you also must apply restrictions on how producers control 2) -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From robertl1 at home.com Wed Aug 29 08:33:12 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Of indictments and Adobe In-Reply-To: <20010829015827.C20696@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010829082208.0275be60@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> At 01:58 AM 8/29/01 -0700, you wrote: >One of the interesting aspects of press coverage I've seen to date of >the Sklyarov/Elcomsoft indictments is prominent mention of Adobe's >involvement in Dimitry's arrest. > >While I recognize that we are currently focusing our actions on >securing Dima's release and providing for his defense, and in repealing >the 1201(a) and 1201(b) sections of the DMCA, it seems that putting some >heat on Adobe could be useful. > >I've written the following letter to Bruce Chizen, President and CEO of >Adobe. I'd encourage others to make their feelings known. (I'd also >appreciate criticism and/or feedback on the letter). > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Bruce Chizen >President & CEO >Adobe Corporation >345 Park Avenue >San Jose, California 95110-2704 > >Dear Mr. Chizen: > >You got him in, now get him out. Amen brother! Adobe's image must be kept linked to Dmitry's freedom. Adobe is the weak link in this entire process. Once large corporations see that Adobe cannot walk off free from harm while Dmitry stays at risk and confined (Northern California is just a larger prison, let him go home), then they will consider some alternatives. The DOJ has huge resources and is very used to this sort of battle. Adobe is not experienced in this game, and has far fewer resources. The legal process is slow. Adobe could act in a hurry and should also provide defense money. As it is Adobe got what they wanted at a very low cost. Other coprporations will see that outcome and follow Adobe's lead. Until Dmitry is free Adobe should stay in PR hell. So why not more anti-DMCA protests at Adobe. Let's keep these issues linked. Bob La Quey From admin at seattle-chat.com Wed Aug 29 08:49:11 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Of indictments and Adobe In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010829082208.0275be60@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: I totally Agree. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Bob La Quey Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 8:33 AM To: Karsten M. Self Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Of indictments and Adobe At 01:58 AM 8/29/01 -0700, you wrote: >One of the interesting aspects of press coverage I've seen to date of >the Sklyarov/Elcomsoft indictments is prominent mention of Adobe's >involvement in Dimitry's arrest. > >While I recognize that we are currently focusing our actions on >securing Dima's release and providing for his defense, and in repealing >the 1201(a) and 1201(b) sections of the DMCA, it seems that putting some >heat on Adobe could be useful. > >I've written the following letter to Bruce Chizen, President and CEO of >Adobe. I'd encourage others to make their feelings known. (I'd also >appreciate criticism and/or feedback on the letter). > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Bruce Chizen >President & CEO >Adobe Corporation >345 Park Avenue >San Jose, California 95110-2704 > >Dear Mr. Chizen: > >You got him in, now get him out. Amen brother! Adobe's image must be kept linked to Dmitry's freedom. Adobe is the weak link in this entire process. Once large corporations see that Adobe cannot walk off free from harm while Dmitry stays at risk and confined (Northern California is just a larger prison, let him go home), then they will consider some alternatives. The DOJ has huge resources and is very used to this sort of battle. Adobe is not experienced in this game, and has far fewer resources. The legal process is slow. Adobe could act in a hurry and should also provide defense money. As it is Adobe got what they wanted at a very low cost. Other coprporations will see that outcome and follow Adobe's lead. Until Dmitry is free Adobe should stay in PR hell. So why not more anti-DMCA protests at Adobe. Let's keep these issues linked. Bob La Quey _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Aug 29 10:33:41 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Of indictments and Adobe In-Reply-To: <20010829015827.C20696@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <20010829173341.22354.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> > It's an act of supreme arrogance that pits the > economic benefits of > 40,000 eBook readers against the constitutional > rights of 285 million > Americans, or, as it appears Adobe believes it can > apply this fascistic > law without regard to international borders, the > six billion > inhabitants of this planet. karsten, u might discover that the american government and industry have overplayed their hand and this will actually benefit those seeking to amend the DMCA (of course those overplaying their hand are the last to acknowledge it!:) i suspect when the 285 million are educated on the effects of the DMCA, a critical mass for amended or repeal will follow shortly after. Those now applauding (Adobe, RIAA, SIIA, and others) these draconian measures will eventually discover that their interests are adversely impacted by same. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From russotto at pond.com Wed Aug 29 10:42:48 2001 From: russotto at pond.com (Matthew T. Russotto) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov indictments Message-ID: <200108291742.NAA00525@pond.com> 5 counts, so a possibility of 25 years and a fine that causes mental integer overflow. I believe the appropriate term is "prosecution raises". I hope Mr. Katalov is no longer in the country, now that they've indicted Elcomsoft. From kfoss at planetpdf.com Wed Aug 29 11:02:12 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov indictments In-Reply-To: <200108291742.NAA00525@pond.com> References: <200108291742.NAA00525@pond.com> Message-ID: At 1:42 PM -0400 8/29/01, Matthew T. Russotto wrote: > I hope Mr. Katalov is no longer in the country He remains here. rgds ~ Kurt ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network -- From seth.johnson at realmeasures.dyndns.org Wed Aug 29 11:16:11 2001 From: seth.johnson at realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fwd: Mike Zimmerman on the BSA Campaign Message-ID: (Forwarded from the eWEEK Newsletter, with Mr. Zimmerman's support) -----Original Message----- From: eWEEK News Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:24:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: The Fear Aspect of the Truce Campaign ========================================================= -------- ENEWS AND VIEWS -------- ========================================================= A weekly newsletter delivering news, analysis and commentary from the editors and writers of eWEEK's News department August 29, 2001 // Volume 1, Issue 30 If you would prefer to receive the HTML version of eNews and Views, click here: http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=eKUj0B3z2y0DUm0LmZ0Ae ========================================================= In This Edition ========================================================= --OUR TAKE The Fear Aspect of the Truce Campaign --NEWS 1. Linux in the Enterprise: 'Verdict Still Out' 2. Microsoft Patents a Threat to Open-Source 3. Palm Hires AT&T CTO to Run OS Subsidiary # = # = # = # = ZIFF DAVIS ANNOUNCEMENT = # = # = # = # Could you imagine your life today without a PC? Take a walk back in time: Don't miss PCMag.com's Special Report on the 20th Anniversary of the PC. CLICK HERE: http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=eKUj0B3z2y0DUm0MVu0Aj # = # = # = # = # = # = # = # = # = # = # = # = # = # = # ========================================================= Our Take ========================================================= THE FEAR ASPECT OF THE TRUCE CAMPAIGN -- By Michael R. Zimmerman -- I've been writing about the Business Software Alliance's Truce Campaign for about two months now in news stories in eWEEK, eWEEK.com and a column in this space. The response to the coverage has been overwhelming. Readers are coming out of the woodwork to give us kudos and offer their personal stories--and complaints--about the misleading and threatening message that the BSA sends out in its letters and radio commercials. (See links below.) But one aspect of the Truce Campaign, which I brought up with the BSA as well as member companies, that I found most troubling I could not write about--that is, I couldn't without delving into the world of psychology and the human psyche. But I'll do so here and without the safety net of a psychologist or textbook to gauge your reaction and ask for your feedback. It has to do with the fear factor of the campaign. It's obvious that the Truce Campaign was carefully thought out and its message carefully crafted so that it would be as ominous as possible without being illegal. As ominous-sounding, say, as an audit letter from the Internal Revenue Service. I contend that the BSA crafted a harsh message with enough misleading information with the intention of frightening people into NOT complaining. Not complaining to places such as the Better Business Bureau, their state's attorney general, their local Chamber of Commerce, etc. In my research I was astounded that the BBB, for example, had received only two(!) official complaints about the BSA and its Truce Campaign. The ACLU not only hadn't received any complaints but also had never heard of the BSA or the Truce Campaign. The attorney general's office in New York--the Truce Campaign trampled through the state in July--as well as other local AG offices actually questioned why anyone would call their office to complain. And the president of the Massachusetts Software & Internet Council, Joyce Plotkin, not only said she hadn't heard about the Truce Campaign but defended actions to curb piracy and illegal licensing practices because they hurt the state's software entrepreneurs. So there you have it. My questions are these: If you received Truce Campaign letters, or similar letters from Microsoft, were you afraid to complain about it to any of the aforementioned organizations for fear of reprisals from the BSA or Microsoft or the government? Were you even afraid to mention the letter to other people, such as colleagues, friends, loved ones out of embarrassment? Were you afraid to complain for any other reason? If you answered yes to any of these questions, I'd like to know. But more importantly, I'd like you to call the BBB at (202) 393-8000 and lodge a complaint. Or, phone your state's attorney general office to complain. To read an eWEEK article about BSA members defending their tactics, click here: http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=eKUj0B3z2y0DUm0MaB0A4 To read an eWEEK article about the BSA campaign, click here: http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=eKUj0B3z2y0DUm0MaC0A5 To read an eWEEK Editor in Chief Eric Lundquist's take on the BSA campaign, click here: http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=eKUj0B3z2y0DUm0MaD0A6 To e-mail eWEEK Executive Editor of News Michael R. Zimmerman, click here: mailto:mike_zimmerman@ziffdavis.com ========================================================= News ========================================================= 1. LINUX IN THE ENTERPRISE: 'VERDICT STILL OUT' Linux is not completely ready for the mission-critical enterprise space as yet, but it is heading in that direction, Shane Robison, chief technology officer for Compaq Computer Corp., said yesterday in his keynote address at the opening of the LinuxWorld conference in San Francisco. "Many corporations are hesitant to adopt Linux, as it lacks a one-stop support network that is robust and reliable. Bugs also need to be fixed rapidly, and corporations need highly skilled staff who can provide complex system integration and migration," Robison said. Linux scalability has been enhanced with the release of the 2.4 kernel, with SMP scalability to 16-way now possible, but this is "more likely on four- and eight-way systems," Robison said. To read the story, click here: http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=eKUj0B3z2y0DUm0MZu0An ------------------------------------------------------------ 2. MICROSOFT PATENTS A THREAT TO OPEN-SOURCE Members of the open-source community are concerned by ongoing moves from Microsoft Corp. to acquire a range of software patents that the company could potentially use down the line to attack and try to restrict the development and distribution of open-source software. And much of that concern is being directed toward open-source desktop company Ximian Inc.'s Mono Project, an open-source initiative to replace part of Microsoft's .Net product line, including a way to run C# programs and the .Net Common Language Infrastructure on Linux. Bruce Perens, Hewlett-Packard Co.'s open-source and Linux strategist, told eWEEK on Monday that an increasing number of people in the open-source community are very concerned about the Mono Project and by Microsoft's initiative to buy software patents and to patent as much of its own technology as it can. To read the story, click here: http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=eKUj0B3z2y0DUm0MZv0Ao ------------------------------------------------------------ 3. PALM HIRES AT&T CTO TO RUN OS SUBSIDIARY Palm Inc. on Monday announced that David Nagel, chief technology officer at AT&T Corp., is taking the reins at Palm's new operating system subsidiary. Nagel's appointment is the latest in a series of management and organizational changes at Palm, which has faced economic troubles all year. Nagel, 56, will join the company on Sept. 17. At AT&T, Nagel was both CTO of the company and president of AT&T Labs. 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From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Aug 29 11:20:34 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] U.S. DoD [seems to be djf] looking for pro-Sklyarov pages? In-Reply-To: <20010828182627.32854ec6.nbhs2@i-2000.com> Message-ID: <20010829182034.11238.qmail@web13903.mail.yahoo.com> lol - yes michael and rick:)! we could put links and pointer on the webpages to help them. just let us know how we can help! --- Michael Scottaline wrote: > On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:06:38 -0700 > Rick Moen insightfully noted: > > RM> Maybe I should ask the DoD if they have a recent > cached copy of my > RM> http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/dmitry-lnks > textfile, since the best I > RM> could find in recovering from my 35GB HD > meltdown was Google's cached > RM> copy from early July. ;-> > RM> > RM> Seriously, if anyone happens to have a > more-recent copy, I'd > RM> appreciate > RM> getting it back. > > ========================== > Prolly just want to make a contribution to the > defense fund, no? Bless > their hearts > Mike > > -- > "Many loads of beer were brought. What disorder, > whoring, > fighting, killing, and dreadful idolatry took place > there." > Baltasar Rusow, Estonia, mid 16th Century > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From akatalov at elcomsoft.com Wed Aug 29 11:32:11 2001 From: akatalov at elcomsoft.com (Alex Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov indictments In-Reply-To: <200108291742.NAA00525@pond.com> References: <200108291742.NAA00525@pond.com> Message-ID: <14726950941.20010829113211@elcomsoft.com> Dear Matthew, MTR> 5 counts, so a possibility of 25 years and a fine that causes mental integer MTR> overflow. I believe the appropriate term is "prosecution raises". I hope MTR> Mr. Katalov is no longer in the country, now that they've indicted MTR> Elcomsoft. I'm in the country all this time and I'm not going to run away now. -- Best regards, Alex mailto:akatalov@elcomsoft.com From nickpda255 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 29 12:21:32 2001 From: nickpda255 at yahoo.com (Nicholas Lentz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Possible mass arrests planned (DOD scanning) Message-ID: <20010829192132.25560.qmail@web4603.mail.yahoo.com> With the recent threads on the DOD using spiders to check for Dmitry's powerpoint presentation and decss, I am wondering if the government may be planning mass arrests. If hundreds or even thousands of people were arrested under the DMCA for hosting the presentation, the intimidation factor worldwide would be very large. Please note that this is pure speculation, with no evidence other than the scans by DOD computers. I would suggest that anyone with such a mirror contact a lawyer if possible, even if outside the U.S. Remember the Noriega incident where the U.S. invaded Panama to kidnap/extradite (which word is correct depends on who you talk to) an ambassador currently there. I am not sure if the U.S. would go to such extremes over the DMCA, but as the old saying goes, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From Robloch at aol.com Wed Aug 29 12:25:27 2001 From: Robloch at aol.com (Robloch@aol.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Increasing awareness and pressure Message-ID: <82.f58cf2f.28be9ba7@aol.com> I've noticed I a number of suggestions encouraging people to write to Congressmen, Adobe, etc. I would like to suggest that writing to editors of certain publications might also be a good way of adding pressure. The more that we get this message out into the mass media the better. It crossed my mind that if we were to organise a co-ordinated approach, this could be effective. Any suggestions? The link below is an article that I wrote on the subject, apologies if it has been posted here, I have just joined the list. http://www.dotcomscoop.com/wtaw828.html From admin at seattle-chat.com Wed Aug 29 12:41:03 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Possible mass arrests planned (DOD scanning) In-Reply-To: <20010829192132.25560.qmail@web4603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well in my case, I don't have that presentation on my site, nor am I linking to it, I'm just linking to a skylarov site, and have a few pictures for protests. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Nicholas Lentz Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 12:22 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Possible mass arrests planned (DOD scanning) With the recent threads on the DOD using spiders to check for Dmitry's powerpoint presentation and decss, I am wondering if the government may be planning mass arrests. If hundreds or even thousands of people were arrested under the DMCA for hosting the presentation, the intimidation factor worldwide would be very large. Please note that this is pure speculation, with no evidence other than the scans by DOD computers. I would suggest that anyone with such a mirror contact a lawyer if possible, even if outside the U.S. Remember the Noriega incident where the U.S. invaded Panama to kidnap/extradite (which word is correct depends on who you talk to) an ambassador currently there. I am not sure if the U.S. would go to such extremes over the DMCA, but as the old saying goes, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From ed at hintz.org Wed Aug 29 12:44:02 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Increasing awareness and pressure Message-ID: <200108291944.f7TJi3c08716@phil.hintz.org> On 8/29/01 12:25 PM, Robloch@aol.com thus spake: >I would like to suggest that writing to editors of certain publications >might >also be a good way of adding pressure. The more that we get this message out >into the mass media the better. It crossed my mind that if we were to >organise a co-ordinated approach, this could be effective. > >Any suggestions? Ya know, when I was talking with some family about Dimitry, somebody suggested it sounded like a good 60 Minutes segment... Haven't had any time to do anything about it, anybody feel like trying to tackle it? Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From moeller at scireview.de Wed Aug 29 13:03:11 2001 From: moeller at scireview.de (Erik Moeller) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Possible mass arrests planned (DOD scanning) In-Reply-To: <20010829192132.25560.qmail@web4603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B8D669F.29100.1AF71FD@localhost> On 29 Aug 2001, at 12:21, Nicholas Lentz wrote: > With the recent threads on the DOD using spiders to > check for Dmitry's powerpoint presentation and decss, If this is confirmed, the reason could be Elcomsoft's ties to the FBI or other agencies. Perhaps they have written some other software besides what is published on their site that shouldn't become public, or perhaps the DOD is somehow involved in the prosecution. Any good conspiracy theories? Regards, Erik -- Scientific Reviewer, Freelancer, Humanist -- Berlin/Germany Phone: +49-30-45491008 - Web: The Origins of Peace and Violence: "If we don't improve our ability to deal collectively with complex things, as the problems grow more urgent, we're in trouble." - Douglas Engelbart From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Wed Aug 29 13:12:22 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Increasing awareness and pressure In-Reply-To: <200108291944.f7TJi3c08716@phil.hintz.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Edmund A. Hintz wrote: > Ya know, when I was talking with some family about Dimitry, somebody > suggested it sounded like a good 60 Minutes segment... Haven't had any > time to do anything about it, anybody feel like trying to tackle it? That's *really* dangerous. Those newsmag shows run two kinds of stories: shocking scandalous threats to your children, and sappy celebrity life stories. Sklyarov would have to be fit into the former mold, meaning he would be portrayed as an 3VIL HACK3R. Once, Dateline NBC had a story about a script kiddy who was defacing web sites. When Dateline mentioned that he defaced a NATO web site, they showed footage of nuclear missiles launching, while telling people at home that this NATO web site contained "crucial links to other sites." =Scott From ed at hintz.org Wed Aug 29 13:49:19 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Increasing awareness and pressure Message-ID: <200108292049.f7TKnKc13795@phil.hintz.org> On 8/29/01 1:12 PM, sacraver@EE.Princeton.EDU thus spake: > > That's *really* dangerous. Those newsmag shows run two kinds of > stories: shocking scandalous threats to your children, and > sappy celebrity life stories. Sklyarov would have to be fit into > the former mold, meaning he would be portrayed as an 3VIL HACK3R. > You missed one: stupid political activities(either here or abroad). IIRC they have a dedicated segment on this sort of thing called "give me a break". Not that I really watch it that much... Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From crism at maden.org Wed Aug 29 13:50:57 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Increasing awareness and pressure In-Reply-To: <200108292049.f7TKnKc13795@phil.hintz.org> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010829135020.00a751c0@mail.maden.org> At 13:49 29-08-2001, Edmund A. Hintz wrote: >You missed one: stupid political activities(either here or abroad). IIRC >they have a dedicated segment on this sort of thing called "give me a >break". Not that I really watch it that much... That's Libertarian John Stossel on ABC's _20/20_, not _60 Minutes_. -crism From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Wed Aug 29 14:04:18 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Increasing awareness and pressure In-Reply-To: <200108292049.f7TKnKc13795@phil.hintz.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Edmund A. Hintz wrote: > You missed one: stupid political activities(either here or abroad). IIRC > they have a dedicated segment on this sort of thing called "give me a > break". Not that I really watch it that much... Oh, that's even more dangerous. John Stossel has been forced by ABC to apologize in the past, for making up stuff on the "give me a break" segment. Stossel bullys people in interviews and then sprays all the footage with a big can of Context-Away(tm) to make it fit his weekly pet theory that some group of people are a bunch of idiots. Often it's a pro-big-business theory, BTW, for instance that organic foods are a fraud, or that people in a class action suit against McDonalds are all con artists and crybabies. I wonder how he'd handle the DMCA issue. FWIW, that's 20/20, and 60 Minutes is considerably more legit. The other shows really pump up the scandal in order to compete. However, I trust none of them. Being asked for an interview on 20/20 is just a couple notches above being asked to be a guest on the Jerry Springer show. -Scott From admin at seattle-chat.com Wed Aug 29 14:17:15 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Rallying cry in open-source war In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010829135020.00a751c0@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5096361,00.html?chkpt=zdnnp1tp 02 From ed at hintz.org Wed Aug 29 15:24:28 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Increasing awareness and pressure Message-ID: <200108292224.f7TMORc14032@phil.hintz.org> On 8/29/01 1:50 PM, crism@maden.org thus spake: >That's Libertarian John Stossel on ABC's _20/20_, not _60 Minutes_. If it's not History(all WWII, all the time), TLC, BBCA or Discovery, chances are quite good I seldom see it... Sorry for the confusion... ;-) Anyway, it was a thought. If folks who actually pay attention to that stuff think it's risky, to hell with the idea... So what other media outlets are suggested for mass awareness? Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From keith at indierecords.com Wed Aug 29 17:01:07 2001 From: keith at indierecords.com (Keith Handy) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Attempting to show the other side References: Message-ID: <3B8D7ECD.19C6@indierecords.com> > Message: 1 > From: "Daniel Richards" > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:03:09 +1200 > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Attempting to show the other side > Which other side is that? Is that like the other side of the DeCSS > case? Where we (the people) are not allowed to reverse engineer > and write our own player(s). The large companies (With their PR > might) will try to spin this off as a piracy tool, only good for > infringing on their copyrights (piracy). You need only look at the > past to see that this is true. Please correct me if im wrong. Q: What's the difference between a publisher and a pirate? A: About six figures. -Keith From rmoyers at nop.org Wed Aug 29 17:38:20 2001 From: rmoyers at nop.org (Raymond Moyers) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] "Oh, that's even more dangerous. John Stossel " Message-ID: <01082919392603.22502@Fubar> What a laugh, a person that supports bloostained leftist mass murder of 200 million people is now in a whine because the jack booted thugs of the powerfull goverment he wanted now has one of their own. No wonder Lenin called you people "usefull idiots" Raymond -- --------------------------------------------------------- "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed and that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of press." - Thomas Jefferson --------------------------------------------------------- "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action, according to our will, within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others." -- Thomas Jefferson --------------------------------------------------------- "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government" -- Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 --------------------------------------------------------- "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good" -- George Washington --------------------------------------------------------- "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." -- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188 --------------------------------------------------------- "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." -- Mahatma Gandhi --------------------------------------------------------- "One of the ordinary modes, by which tyrants accomplish their purposes without resistance, is, by disarming the people, and making it an offense to keep arms." -- Constitutional scholar Joseph Story, 1840 --------------------------------------------------------- "The bearing of arms is the essential medium through which the individual asserts both his social power and his participation in politics as a responsible moral being..." -- J.G.A. Pocock, describing the beliefs of the founders of the U.S. --------------------------------------------------------- "As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives [only] moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun, therefore, be the constant companion to your walks." -- Thomas Jefferson, writing to his teenaged nephew. --------------------------------------------------------- "Taking my gun away because I might shoot someone is like cutting my tongue out because I might yell `Fire!' in a crowded theater." -- Peter Venetoklis --------------------------------------------------------- "Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." -- John F. Kennedy --------------------------------------------------------- The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them." -- Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story of the John Marshall Court --------------------------------------------------------- "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." -- George Washington, in a speech of January 7, 1790 --------------------------------------------------------- "...quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est." [...a sword never kills anybody; it's a tool in the killer's hand.] -- (Lucius Annaeus) Seneca "the Younger" (ca. 4 BC-65 AD), --------------------------------------------------------- False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. -- Cesare Beccaria, as quoted by Thomas Jefferson's Commonplace book --------------------------------------------------------- No kingdom can be secured otherwise than by arming the people. The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave. -- "Political Disquisitions", a British republican tract of 1774-1775 --------------------------------------------------------- & what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that his people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. -- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Col. William S. Smith, 1787 --------------------------------------------------------- "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." -- Patrick Henry, June 5 1788 --------------------------------------------------------- Are we at last brought to such a humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defence? Where is the difference between having our arms in our own possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defence be the *real* object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands? -- Patrick Henry, speech of June 9 1788 --------------------------------------------------------- "To disarm the people... was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." -- George Mason, June 14, 1788 --------------------------------------------------------- "The great object is, that every man be armed. [...] Every one who is able may have a gun." -- Patrick Henry, June 14 1788 --------------------------------------------------------- That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United states who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms... -- Samuel Adams, in "Phila. Independent Gazetteer", August 20, 1789 --------------------------------------------------------- The danger (where there is any) from armed citizens, is only to the *government*, not to *society*; and as long as they have nothing to revenge in the government (which they cannot have while it is in their own hands) there are many advantages in their being accustomed to the use of arms, and no possible disadvantage. -- Joel Barlow --------------------------------------------------------- Every Communist must grasp the truth, 'Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.' -- Mao Tse-tung, 1938 --------------------------------------------------------- The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so. -- Hitler, April 11 1942 --------------------------------------------------------- The right to buy weapons is the right to be free. -- A.E. Van Vogt, "The Weapon Shops Of Isher", ASF December 1942 --------------------------------------------------------- Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of the citizens to keep and bear arms. [...] the right of the citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government and one more safeguard against a tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible. -- Hubert H. Humphrey, 1960 --------------------------------------------------------- No matter how one approaches the figures, one is forced to the rather startling conclusion that the use of firearms in crime was very much less when there were no controls of any sort and when anyone, convicted criminal or lunatic, could buy any type of firearm without restriction. Half a century of strict controls on pistols has ended, perversely, with a far greater use of this weapon in crime than ever before. -- Colin Greenwood, "Firearms Control", 1972 --------------------------------------------------------- Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws." -- Edward Abbey, "Abbey's Road", 1979 --------------------------------------------------------- The conclusion is thus inescapable that the history, concept, and wording of the second amendment to the Constitution of the United States, as well as its interpretation by every major commentator and court in the first half-century after its ratification, indicates that what is protected is an individual right of a private citizen to own and carry firearms in a peaceful manner. -- Report of the Subcommittee On The Constitution of the Committee On The Judiciary, United States Senate, 97th Congress, second session (February, 1982), SuDoc# Y4.J 89/2: Ar 5/5 --------------------------------------------------------- In recent years it has been suggested that the Second Amendment protects the "collective" right of states to maintain militias, while it does not protect the right of "the people" to keep and bear arms. If anyone entertained this notion in the period during which the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were debated and ratified, it remains one of the most closely guarded secrets of the eighteenth century, for no known writing surviving from the period between 1787 and 1791 states such a thesis. -- Stephen P. Halbrook --------------------------------------------------------- To make inexpensive guns impossible to get is to say that you're putting a money test on getting a gun. It's racism in its worst form. -- Roy Innis, president of the Congress of Racial Equality (CORE), 1988 --------------------------------------------------------- Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power. -- Yoshimi Ishikawa --------------------------------------------------------- The whole of the Bill [of Rights] is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of. -- Albert Gallatin, Oct 7 1789 --------------------------------------------------------- The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money. -- Alexis de Tocqueville --------------------------------------------------------- Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. -- Daniel Webster --------------------------------------------------------- The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant -- John Stuart Mill, "On Liberty", 1859 --------------------------------------------------------- You [should] not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harm it would cause if improperly administered. -- President Lyndon Johnson --------------------------------------------------------- Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences. -- C. S. Lewis --------------------------------------------------------- It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. We hold this prudent jealousy to be the first duty of citizens and one of the noblest characteristics of the late Revolution. The freemen of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise and entangled the question in precedents. They saw all the consequences in the principle, and they avoided the consequences by denying the principle. We revere this lesson too much ... to forget it -- James Madison. --------------------------------------------------------- It will be of little avail to the people, that the laws are made by men of their own choice, if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood; if they be repealed or revised before they are promulgated, or undergo such incessant changes that no man, who knows what the law is to-day, can guess what it will be to-morrow. Law is defined to be a rule of action; but how can that be a rule, which is little known, and less fixed? -- James Madison, Federalist Papers 62 --------------------------------------------------------- I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which grant[s] a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents. -- James Madison, 1794 --------------------------------------------------------- ..every Man has a Property in his own Person. This no Body has any Right to but himself. The Labour of his Body, and the Work of his Hands, we may say, are properly his. .... The great and chief end therefore, of Mens uniting into Commonwealths, and putting themselves under Government, is the Preservation of their Property. -- John Locke, "A Treatise Concerning Civil Government" --------------------------------------------------------- The people cannot delegate to government the power to do anything which would be unlawful for them to do themselves. - John Locke, "A Treatise Concerning Civil Government" --------------------------------------------------------- The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the Prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this. -- Albert Einstein, "My First Impression of the U.S.A.", 1921 --------------------------------------------------------- Don't ever think you know what's right for the other person. He might start thinking he knows what's right for you. -- Paul Williams, `Das Energi' --------------------------------------------------------- "...The Bill of Rights is a literal and absolute document. The First Amendment doesn't say you have a right to speak out unless the government has a 'compelling interest' in censoring the Internet. The Second Amendment doesn't say you have the right to keep and bear arms until some madman plants a bomb. The Fourth Amendment doesn't say you have the right to be secure from search and seizure unless some FBI agent thinks you fit the profile of a terrorist. The government has no right to interfere with any of these freedoms under any circumstances." -- Harry Browne --------------------------------------------------------- It would be thought a hard government that should tax its people one tenth part. -- Benjamin Franklin --------------------------------------------------------- Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not so costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no chance of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. --Winston Churchill --------------------------------------------------------- "Are we to understand," asked the judge, "that you hold your own interests above the interests of the public?" "I hold that such a question can never arise except in a society of cannibals." -- Ayn Rand --------------------------------------------------------- Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did, and it never will. Find out just what people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. -- Frederick Douglass --------------------------------------------------------- A right is not what someone gives you; it's what no one can take from you. -- Ramsey Clark --------------------------------------------------------- The politician attempts to remedy the evil by increasing the very thing that caused the evil in the first place: legal plunder. -- Frederick Bastiat --------------------------------------------------------- The Constitution is not neutral. It was designed to take the government off the backs of the people. -- Justice William O. Douglas --------------------------------------------------------- Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one; for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries *by a government*, which we might expect in a country *without government*, our calamities is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer." -- Thomas Paine --------------------------------------------------------- "The power to tax involves the power to destroy;...the power to destroy may defeat and render useless the power to create...." -- Chief Justice John Marshall, 1819. --------------------------------------------------------- clintonsoft.c:666: warning: `morality_and_integrity' defined but not used -------------------------------------------------------- Raymond Moyers N5LAX email: rmoyers@nop.org -------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------- From Robloch at aol.com Wed Aug 29 17:56:00 2001 From: Robloch at aol.com (Robloch@aol.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: Increasing awareness and pressure Message-ID: <7c.1ab2ace6.28bee920@aol.com> I agree that there is a danger for this to be labeled as 'hacker against government' story. However if the issue it put forward as a 'freedom' or 'basic rights' issue, then the it can be packaged as something that would be of interest to a wider audience. 'Russian fights for Americas freedom' That sort of angle. I don't think that anyone should underestimate the potential of this story, it could go massive in mainstream media. The information is there, it just needs to be packaged in a more mass media format. I think that 60 minutes is a great idea. From yg1 at hotbox.ru Wed Aug 29 17:59:49 2001 From: yg1 at hotbox.ru (Yaroslav Grekov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] what is to be done Message-ID: <001401c130ef$1acacd60$bc8d5bc3@o9w7t4> Letters wont work - they'll just throw them away. Therefore we need to concentrate our efforts on something really useful and meaningful. I've read today's WIRED report on indictment - http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,46398,00.html?tw=wn20010829 and noticed one curious line: "At least one lawsuit seeks to have aspects of the law declared unconstitutional." What about this LAWSUIT? Where can I get details on it? How can we make it win? Sincerely, Y.Grekov. Editor RICN-Russian Internet Content News http://eng.ricn.ru From pedro at tastytronic.net Wed Aug 29 18:09:13 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] CHICAGO is ON for the 30th! Message-ID: <20010829200913.V803@tastytronic.net> If you're in Chicago and you'd like to protest tomorrow, please come see our site at: http://chicago.freesklyarov.org/ and/or sign up for our list. We'll be protesting in front of the Harold Washington Library tomorrow morning from 11:00 - 1:00. Contact me for more information. Yours, pedro -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- http://www.freesklyarov.org/ In prison for exercising his right to "fair use." From yg1 at hotbox.ru Wed Aug 29 18:19:15 2001 From: yg1 at hotbox.ru (Yaroslav Grekov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: Increasing awareness and pressure References: <7c.1ab2ace6.28bee920@aol.com> Message-ID: <002201c130f1$cb13ab40$bc8d5bc3@o9w7t4> I just want to elaborate on the following: - I don't think that anyone should underestimate the potential of this story, - it could go massive in mainstream media. The information is there, it just - needs to be packaged in a more mass media format. To me Dmitry is a new CYBERCHRIST (just like, or something like Mr.Mitnick was before), he is a martyr who is put against the system of obsolete laws instituted by people who hardly understand the technology. It shouldn't be a crime to expose the weaknesses of a security systems, especially in the FREE WORLD! But the funny thing is that it is a crime in US - as your laws are too advanced and over-cautious in hi-tech matters and it is not a crime in Russia as our laws in that area are not developed yet... Sincerely, Y.Grekov. Editor RICN-Russian Internet Content News http://eng.ricn.ru From proclus at iname.com Wed Aug 29 18:51:29 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] GNU-Darwin responds to the indictment Message-ID: <200108300151.f7U1pWH00783@moerbeke> http://gnu-darwin.sourceforge.net/news.html Best Regards to all the street protesters. proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From proclus at iname.com Wed Aug 29 19:53:49 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Indictment is an outrage! Message-ID: <200108300253.f7U2rqH01288@moerbeke> I am outraged by the reporting of the indictment. It is obvious down-playing, and the goverment has added insult to injury by slapping another charge on the poor man! We need to turn up the heat, and fast! Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From f00bar at earthlink.net Wed Aug 29 20:22:08 2001 From: f00bar at earthlink.net (J. Shirley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: Increasing awareness and pressure References: <7c.1ab2ace6.28bee920@aol.com> <002201c130f1$cb13ab40$bc8d5bc3@o9w7t4> Message-ID: <3B8DB160.5010203@earthlink.net> Except Mr. Mitnick was guilty of a crime. Yaroslav Grekov wrote: >I just want to elaborate on the following: > >- I don't think that anyone should underestimate the potential of this >story, >- it could go massive in mainstream media. The information is there, it just >- needs to be packaged in a more mass media format. > >To me Dmitry is a new CYBERCHRIST (just like, or >something like Mr.Mitnick was before), he is a martyr >who is put against the system of obsolete laws instituted >by people who hardly understand the technology. > >It shouldn't be a crime to expose the weaknesses of a >security systems, especially in the FREE WORLD! >But the funny thing is that it is a crime in US - as your >laws are too advanced and over-cautious in hi-tech >matters and it is not a crime in Russia as our laws in >that area are not developed yet... > > > >Sincerely, Y.Grekov. Editor >RICN-Russian Internet Content News >http://eng.ricn.ru > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From kmself at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 29 20:28:19 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] what is to be done In-Reply-To: <001401c130ef$1acacd60$bc8d5bc3@o9w7t4>; from yg1@hotbox.ru on Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 04:59:49AM +0400 References: <001401c130ef$1acacd60$bc8d5bc3@o9w7t4> Message-ID: <20010829202819.C7559@navel.introspect> on Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 04:59:49AM +0400, Yaroslav Grekov (yg1@hotbox.ru) wrote: > Letters wont work - they'll just throw them away. > Therefore we need to concentrate our efforts > on something really useful and meaningful. > > I've read today's WIRED report on indictment - > http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,46398,00.html?tw=wn20010829 > and noticed one curious line: > > "At least one lawsuit seeks to have aspects of the law declared > unconstitutional." > > What about this LAWSUIT? > Where can I get details on it? > How can we make it win? Felton v. RIAA, I think. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010829/17285f7c/attachment.pgp From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Aug 29 20:38:14 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ckirby@sfchronicle.com 29aug01 article Message-ID: <20010830033814.10594.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> read __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Aug 29 20:40:27 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov indictments In-Reply-To: <14726950941.20010829113211@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: <20010830034027.5662.qmail@web13903.mail.yahoo.com> :) there is something to be learned from this message! --- Alex Katalov wrote: > Dear Matthew, > > > MTR> 5 counts, so a possibility of 25 years and a > fine that causes mental integer > MTR> overflow. I believe the appropriate term is > "prosecution raises". I hope > MTR> Mr. Katalov is no longer in the country, now > that they've indicted > MTR> Elcomsoft. > > I'm in the country all this time and I'm not going > to run away now. > > -- > Best regards, > Alex > mailto:akatalov@elcomsoft.com > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From cycmn at nyct.net Wed Aug 29 20:51:31 2001 From: cycmn at nyct.net (J.E. Cripps) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ckirby@sfchronicle.com 29aug01 article In-Reply-To: <20010830033814.10594.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010829235032.B99861-100000@bsd1.nyct.net> alfee cube seems to have advised us: > read read what? > Subject: [free-sklyarov] ckirby@sfchronicle.com 29aug01 article this? From jstyre at jstyre.com Wed Aug 29 21:33:27 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] what is to be done In-Reply-To: <001401c130ef$1acacd60$bc8d5bc3@o9w7t4> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010829212826.00b13470@earthlink.net> At 04:59 AM 8/30/2001 +0400, Yaroslav Grekov wrote: >Letters wont work - they'll just throw them away. >Therefore we need to concentrate our efforts >on something really useful and meaningful. > >I've read today's WIRED report on indictment - >http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,46398,00.html?tw=wn20010829 >and noticed one curious line: > >"At least one lawsuit seeks to have aspects of the law declared >unconstitutional." > >What about this LAWSUIT? >Where can I get details on it? >How can we make it win? Felten et al. v. RIAA et al., in which we ask for, among other things: "Declaratory Relief (Second Cause of Action) " E. A declaration that the application of the DMCA to the publication or presentation of the SDMI Paper, the ICASSP Paper, Chapter 10 of Dr. Wu's dissertation and/or any scientific, technical or academic research related to the SDMI Public Challenge violates the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. " F. A declaration that the DMCA is unconstitutional on its face because it violates the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. " G. A declaration that the application of the DMCA to the publication or presentation of scientific, academic or technical speech, including the publication of computer programs, violates the First Amendment to the United States Constitution." http://www.eff.org/Legal/Cases/Felten_v_RIAA/20010626_eff_felten_amended_complaint.html http://www.eff.org/Legal/Cases/Felten_v_RIAA/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From crawford at goingware.com Wed Aug 29 21:57:35 2001 From: crawford at goingware.com (Michael D. Crawford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ckirby@sfchronicle.com 29aug01 article Message-ID: <3B8DC7BF.DC807BE1@goingware.com> > read what? Probably referring to this: Russian Hacker, Company Indicted http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2001/08/29/BU220810.DTL www.sfgate.com is the Chron's website. Mike -- Michael D. Crawford GoingWare Inc. - Expert Software Development and Consulting http://www.goingware.com crawford@goingware.com Tilting at Windmills for a Better Tomorrow. From jeme at brelin.net Wed Aug 29 23:05:22 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: Increasing awareness and pressure In-Reply-To: <7c.1ab2ace6.28bee920@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 Robloch@aol.com wrote: > I agree that there is a danger for this to be labeled as 'hacker > against government' story. However if the issue it put forward as a > 'freedom' or 'basic rights' issue, then the it can be packaged as > something that would be of interest to a wider audience. > > 'Russian fights for Americas freedom' That sort of angle. > > I don't think that anyone should underestimate the potential of this > story, it could go massive in mainstream media. The information is > there, it just needs to be packaged in a more mass media format. > > I think that 60 minutes is a great idea. I think you have no idea what the REAL problem is. The REAL problem isn't the DMCA or even the WIPO... it's PARTLY the Telecommunications Act of 1996, but I think we'd be in a very similar boat without that. The problem is media consolidation and conglomeration. The mainstream media WILL NOT present Dmitry in a favorable light because the mainstream media bought and paid for the law that's keeping him in jail and that law is written exactly how the mainstream media wanted it to be written. Pay-Per-View culture is what mainstream media wants. Open formats and free speech are incompatible with the pay-per-view culture. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Aug 29 23:36:51 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] what is to be done In-Reply-To: <20010829202819.C7559@navel.introspect> References: <001401c130ef$1acacd60$bc8d5bc3@o9w7t4> <20010829202819.C7559@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <20010829233651.L32544@zork.net> Karsten M. Self writes: > > What about this LAWSUIT? > > Where can I get details on it? > > How can we make it win? > > Felton v. RIAA, I think. Yes, except for the "o" (it's "Felten"). -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From wiljan at pobox.com Thu Aug 30 01:06:55 2001 From: wiljan at pobox.com (Will Janoschka) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: Increasing awareness and pressure Message-ID: <200108300715.CAA001.98@cressida.nereid.ar-digit.net> on Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:05:22 Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net Wrote: > The mainstream media WILL NOT present Dmitry in a favorable light > because the mainstream media bought and paid for the law that's > keeping him in jail and that law is written exactly how the > mainstream media wanted it to be written. Well maybe not "exactly" Consider: From jays at panix.com Thu Aug 30 01:37:20 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Academic Press refuses to be arxived (fwd) Message-ID: There are several more articles in the thread started by this article in the newsgroup sci.math.research. The second is by John McCarthy and the most recent by Greg Kuperberg. http://modular.fas.harvard.edu/copyright oo--JS. >Path: news.panix.com!panix!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!not-for-mail >X-Coding-System: undecided-unix >From: zieve@idaccr.org (Michael Zieve) >Newsgroups: sci.math.research >Subject: Academic Press refuses to be arxived >Message-ID: <9mh00g$q1t@runner.princeton.idaccr.org> >Approved: Daniel Grayson , moderator for sci.math.research >Lines: 34 >Date: 28 Aug 2001 16:47:12 -0400 >NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.126.108.30 >NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:28:17 CDT >Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Today I called Academic Press requesting permission to post to the arxiv some papers I had published in their journals. They refused to grant me this permission, even when I informed them that it meant I would never again publish in their journals. I am posting this article to inform other mathematicians of Academic Press's policy of hindering mathematical communication. Hopefully this post will encourage other mathematicians to think twice about publishing in Academic Press journals. Mike Zieve Here is a list of Academic Press journals: Advances in Applied Mathematics Advances in Mathematics Applied and Computational Harmonic Analysis European Journal of Combinatorics Finite Fields and Their Applications Historia Mathematica Information and Computation Journal of Algebra Journal of Algorithms Journal of Approximation Theory Journal of Combinatorial Theory Journal of Complexity Journal of Computational Physics Journal of Differential Equations Journal of Functional Analysis Journal of Mathematical Analysis and Applications Journal of Multivariate Analysis Journal of Number Theory Journal of Symbolic Computation From nickpda255 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 30 02:19:07 2001 From: nickpda255 at yahoo.com (Nicholas Lentz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Indictment may be a good thing for Dmitry Message-ID: <20010830091908.7040.qmail@web4603.mail.yahoo.com> As strange as it may sound, this indictment may actually be a good thing for Dmitry. It means that at least he will have a trial fairly soon, hopefully. Remember, in some other cases, they have held computer "hackers" for years without setting a trial date. Then the "hacker" would plead guilty to whatever the FBI wanted just so they could get a sentence and be out in a few years. By the FBI actually going to trial, there is not that "how long will I be held without a day in court" issue that others, such as Mitnick had. Being indicted was certainly not the best outcome, but it was fairly good compared to being held in jail for three years without even being told the evidence against him. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From john.dempsey7 at verizon.net Thu Aug 30 02:29:14 2001 From: john.dempsey7 at verizon.net (John Dempsey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] what is to be done In-Reply-To: <001401c130ef$1acacd60$bc8d5bc3@o9w7t4> Message-ID: > What about this LAWSUIT? > Where can I get details on it? > How can we make it win? Make it win by communicating to Americans that the new law revokes our right to use media in ways necessary, useful, and previously legal. Explain the part how big business wrote the new law to make us pay more and get less from book, music, and movie purchases. Also mention it quashes cherished intellectual freedoms in unprecidented ways for the sake of a buck. From nbhs2 at i-2000.com Thu Aug 30 03:12:39 2001 From: nbhs2 at i-2000.com (Michael Scottaline) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Irony of it all!! Message-ID: <20010830061239.1f6a610c.nbhs2@i-2000.com> From pedro at tastytronic.net Thu Aug 30 08:09:27 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] final notice Message-ID: <20010830100926.E27069@tastytronic.net> I'm leaving for our protest/leafletting at the Harold Washington Library right now. If you want to join us last minute, see: http://chicago.freesklyarov.org/ pedro -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- http://www.freesklyarov.org/ In prison for exercising his right to "fair use." From admin at seattle-chat.com Thu Aug 30 08:25:14 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Programmer claims to crack MS Reader Message-ID: http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2809412,00.html?chkpt=zdhpnews 01 From Robloch at aol.com Thu Aug 30 08:25:13 2001 From: Robloch at aol.com (Robloch@aol.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New article. Message-ID: <132.d7c1d4.28bfb4d9@aol.com> To mark the occasion, I've written an article. Let's hope that common sense prevails today. Good luck all. I think that this is a workable theory, what do you think. Criminal or Hostage? http://www.dotcomscoop.com/wtaw830.htm From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Aug 30 08:32:22 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov defense team statement Message-ID: <20010830083222.X32544@zork.net> http://cryptome.org/dmitry-burton.htm 29 August 2001. Source: Dmitry Sklyarov defense team. _________________________________________________________________ FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Tuesday, August 28, 2001 GOVERNMENT REFUSES TO DROP CONTROVERSIAL CHARGES AGAINST DMITRY SKLYAROV AND INDICTS RUSSIAN PROGRAMMER San Jose, California -- The government took another step forward Tuesday in the controversial case against 26 year-old Russian software programmer Dmitry Sklyarov by indicting Sklyarov and his Moscow-based employer, ElcomSoft Co. Ltd., for alleged violations of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA"). Sklyarov will appear for arraignment on Thursday, at 9:30 a.m., in Federal Court in San Jose. "We were hopeful that the government would see the wisdom and justice in not pursuing a case against Sklyarov," said Sklyarov's attorney, Joseph M. Burton of Duane Morris in San Francisco, California. "Even if one were to ignore the serious legal questions involving the DMCA, this case hardly cries out for criminal prosecution. Sklyarov's and Elcomsoft's actions are not conduct that Congress intended to criminalize. We will vigorously contest these charges." Sklyarov spent 21 days in jail following his July 16, 2001 arrest in Las Vegas, Nevada, where he was delivering a lecture on electronic book security. The government arrested Sklyarov because his company allegedly trafficked in software that circumvented copyright security on Adobe electronic book software. Adobe has publicly stated that it does not support the prosecution of Sklyarov. Sklyarov has not been able to travel outside of Northern California since he was released on bail on August 6, 2001. "Now, that the government has decided to move forward with the prosecution, it is important that Dmitry be reunited with his family so that they can support each other through this ordeal," Burton stated. Emergency visa applications for Sklyarov's wife, 2 year-old son, and four-month old daughter have been filed with the United States Embassy in Moscow by Sklyarov's attorneys. "We are working to get the family here for the arraignment on Thursday," added Burton. Sklyarov's arrest sparked protests in dozens of U.S. cities and abroad and has raised the stakes in the on-going debate of how to protect copyrighted works published in electronic format. In response to numerous inquiries, a defense fund has been established. Those interested in contributing to Sklyarov's defense fund can obtain information on where to contribute at www.elcomsoft.com/aebpr.html. _________________________________________________________________ -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Aug 30 08:38:49 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Lessig reply to Parloff Message-ID: <20010830083849.Z32544@zork.net> http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/filter/lessig-sklyarov.html -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From kfoss at planetpdf.com Thu Aug 30 09:54:44 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NEW: Elcomsoft Executive Responds To Federal Charges Against Dmitry Sklyarov Message-ID: Elcomsoft Executive Responds To Federal Charges Against Dmitry Sklyarov Alex Katalov, president of ElcomSoft Co. Ltd. of Moscow, Russia, made his first public statement since Dmitry Sklyarov, his employee, and his company were indicted by a U.S. court on five counts of violating the country's Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). Calling the federal government's allegations "a very unfortunate and misguided attempt" to set a precedent by singling out the young programmer and his employer, Katalov appeared ready to take up the issues in court. "ElcomSoft did not violate the letter or the intent of the DMCA, which we will prove in due time," he says. http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=219 ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network From sisgeek at yahoo.com Thu Aug 30 10:13:23 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Programmer claims to crack MS Reader In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010830171323.83572.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com> this is brilliant and points to the irony of the solutions proposed by the "get a bigger club" club!!! we'll have affidavits swearing a break has been made posted all over the internet without the break itself, because that person potentially faces jail time for their break speech!!! hey microsoft let us know if the fbi can help you with this problem? be sure to let us what this does for the confidence in your reader and subsequent sales for that reader? i'm guessing here, but i don't think a "bigger club" is is part of the solution set:) - but you let us know!!! --- Charles Eakins wrote: > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2809412,00.html?chkpt=zdhpnews > 01 > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From kmself at ix.netcom.com Thu Aug 30 10:22:01 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Anybody here own a town? 1201(e) Message-ID: <20010830102201.A13334@navel.introspect> There's an interesting, if possibly unweildy, hole in the DMCA, in section 1201(e), the law enforcement, intelligence, and other government activities. The exemption here applies to "the United States, a State, or a political subdivision of a State", or "a person acting pursuant to a contract with" [a qualified political unit]. The exemption applies to "any lawfully authorized investigative, protective, information security, or intelligence activity", and the last term is broadly defined: ''information security'' means activities carried out in order to identify and address the vulnerabilities of a government computer, computer system, or computer network. http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/1201.html Seems to me that we need to find ourselves a small town somewhere which can deputize the lot of us to perform "information security" assessments of various computers, computer systems, or computer networks. Since the community itself is widely distributed, uses a broad range of computer applications, and communicates largely over the Internet, this provides a broad scope for activity, and a sound basis for communicating findings and discoveries in an open channel. Food for thought at any rate. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010830/ff6e5d13/attachment.pgp From larsg at eurorights.org Thu Aug 30 10:31:11 2001 From: larsg at eurorights.org (Lars Gaarden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New article. References: <132.d7c1d4.28bfb4d9@aol.com> Message-ID: <001f01c13179$8ff22720$aa847a94@online.no> From: > To mark the occasion, I've written an article. Let's hope that common sense > prevails today. Good luck all. > > I think that this is a workable theory, what do you think. Criminal or > Hostage? > http://www.dotcomscoop.com/wtaw830.htm Never attribute to malice, etc.. If I'm not entirely mistaken, both Dmitry and Alex Katalov - the executive of Elcomsoft - were at DEFCON. If the FBI had wanted Elcomsoft in the first place, they could have cuffed Alex. Remember that Adobe's complaint singled out Dmitry. Perhaps it just was stupdity on the behalf of the FBI. It is kind of funny, actually. FBI evidently thought that they were jailing a single sinister russian hacker, while what they got was a public outcry and a software company with a backbone. -- LarsG From jeme at brelin.net Thu Aug 30 10:33:54 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Anybody here own a town? 1201(e) In-Reply-To: <20010830102201.A13334@navel.introspect> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Karsten M. Self wrote: > There's an interesting, if possibly unweildy, hole in the DMCA, in > section 1201(e), the law enforcement, intelligence, and other > government activities. The exemption here applies to "the United > States, a State, or a political subdivision of a State", or "a person > acting pursuant to a contract with" [a qualified political unit]. > The exemption applies to "any lawfully authorized investigative, > protective, information security, or intelligence activity", and the > last term is broadly defined: ''information security'' means > activities carried out in order to identify and address the > vulnerabilities of a government computer, computer system, or computer > network. I saw where you were going before you got there... > http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/1201.html > > Seems to me that we need to find ourselves a small town somewhere > which can deputize the lot of us to perform "information security" > assessments of various computers, computer systems, or computer > networks. Since the community itself is widely distributed, uses a > broad range of computer applications, and communicates largely over > the Internet, this provides a broad scope for activity, and a sound > basis for communicating findings and discoveries in an open channel. This is brilliant. And it doesn't even have to be a small town. We just need a government agency to sponsor research into information security. Just let them say, "Sharing amongst individuals and teaching within a community being the heart of personal and community growth, in the public interest, we shall support and disseminate any information gathered that will lead to the easier distribution of information amongst individuals and within communities. Any person willing to contribute to our public education effort is hereby authorized to conduct research into information security and shared information technologies for the public benefit." Or something like that. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From Robloch at aol.com Thu Aug 30 10:40:15 2001 From: Robloch at aol.com (Robloch@aol.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New article. Message-ID: To mark the occasion, I've written an article. Let's hope that common sense > prevails today. Good luck all. > > I think that this is a workable theory, what do you think. Criminal or > Hostage? > http://www.dotcomscoop.com/wtaw830.htm Never attribute to malice, etc.. If I'm not entirely mistaken, both Dmitry and Alex Katalov the executive of Elcomsoft - were at DEFCON. If the FBI had wanted Elcomsoft in the first place, they could have cuffed Alex. Remember that Adobe's complaint singled out Dmitry. Perhaps it just was stupdity on the behalf of the FBI. It is kind of funny, actually. FBI evidently thought that they were jailing a single sinister russian hacker, while what they got was a public outcry and a software company with a backbone. -- LarsG ------- I wasn't aware of that. Even with that being the case, could they really arrest Alex Katalov without first filing charges against the company? They might believe that he would not re-enter the US once charges were brought, but wouldn't it be considered against protocol to pre-assume that. Just a thought. Robert From wild at eff.org Thu Aug 30 10:58:14 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF: Russian Programmer & Co. Plead Not Guilty Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010830105806.0478e458@pop3.norton.antivirus> Electronic Frontier Foundation Media Release For Immediate Release: August 30, 2001 Contacts: Cindy Cohn, EFF Legal Director, cindy@eff.org, +1 415 436-9333 x108 (office), +1 415 823-2148 (cell) Will Doherty, EFF Online Activist / Media Relations, press@eff.org, +1 415 436-9333 x111 (office), +1 415 794-6064 (cell) Russian Programmer & Co. Plead Not Guilty Sklyarov Faces 25 Years for Providing eBook Format Converter San Jose, California - Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov and his employer Elcomsoft today pled not guilty to charges of providing electronic book format conversion software in the United States. Sklyarov, who had the benefit of a court interpreter, spoke the plea himself in English. The court heard a five-count grand jury indictment against Elcomsoft and previously jailed programmer Sklyarov on charges of trafficking and conspiracy to traffic in a copyright circumvention device. Sklyarov -- who is out of custody on US $50,000 bail -- could face a prison term of up to twenty-five years and a US $2,250,000 fine. As a corporation, Elcomsoft faces a potential US $2,500,000 fine. "Dmitry has programmed a format converter which has many legitimate uses including enabling the blind to hear eBooks," explained Cindy Cohn, Electronic Frontier Foundation Legal Director. "The idea that he faces prison for this is outrageous. The EFF will support Dmitry through the end of this ordeal." "We were hoping that the government would see the wisdom and justice in not pursuing a case against Sklyarov," said his attorney, Joseph M. Burton of Duane Morris in San Francisco. "Even if one were to ignore the serious legal questions involving the DMCA, this case hardly cries out for criminal prosecution. Sklyarov's and Elcomsoft's actions are not conduct that Congress intended to criminalize. We will vigorously contest these charges." Sklyarov and his attorneys appeared at the arraignment with US Magistrate Judge Richard Seeborg presiding. The next court appearance scheduled in the case is 9:00 AM Pacific on September 4 before Judge Ronald Whyte in the San Jose Federal Court building. Well-dressed observers attended the arraignment and nonviolent protests occurred in Moscow (Russia), London (England), Boston, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Reno, and Black Rock City, Nevada. Hundreds of protestors are expected to march today from the LinuxWorld Conference in San Francisco to the Federal Court building. Background on the Sklyarov case: http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/ Calendar of protests related to the Sklyarov case: http://freesklyarov.org/calendar/ Sklyarov Defense Fund: http://www.elcomsoft.com/??? About EFF: The Electronic Frontier Foundation is the leading civil liberties organization working to protect rights in the digital world. Founded in 1990, EFF actively encourages and challenges industry and government to support free expression, privacy, and openness in the information society. EFF is a member-supported organization and maintains one of the most linked-to websites in the world: http://www.eff.org/ - end - From admin at seattle-chat.com Thu Aug 30 11:06:58 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Anybody here own a town? 1201(e) In-Reply-To: <20010830102201.A13334@navel.introspect> Message-ID: Heh, too bad Fremont isn't it's own town in Washington, ;) just a sub-burb of Seattle.. I know they'd go for it, heh -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Karsten M. Self Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 10:22 AM To: Free Sklyarov mailing list Subject: [free-sklyarov] Anybody here own a town? 1201(e) There's an interesting, if possibly unweildy, hole in the DMCA, in section 1201(e), the law enforcement, intelligence, and other government activities. The exemption here applies to "the United States, a State, or a political subdivision of a State", or "a person acting pursuant to a contract with" [a qualified political unit]. The exemption applies to "any lawfully authorized investigative, protective, information security, or intelligence activity", and the last term is broadly defined: ''information security'' means activities carried out in order to identify and address the vulnerabilities of a government computer, computer system, or computer network. http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/1201.html Seems to me that we need to find ourselves a small town somewhere which can deputize the lot of us to perform "information security" assessments of various computers, computer systems, or computer networks. Since the community itself is widely distributed, uses a broad range of computer applications, and communicates largely over the Internet, this provides a broad scope for activity, and a sound basis for communicating findings and discoveries in an open channel. Food for thought at any rate. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html From gbroiles at well.com Thu Aug 30 11:04:07 2001 From: gbroiles at well.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] SJ hearing this morning Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010830103155.04504ec0@pop3.norton.antivirus> I just got back from this morning's hearing in federal court in San Jose - not much happened. Dmitry and Alex Katalov were there, with Joe Burton - Dmitry and Elcomsoft both plead "not guilty" to the five counts charged in the indictment, and another hearing date was set for September 4 at 9:00 AM in Judge Whyte's courtroom. Judge Whyte is not unfamiliar with technology and the Internet - he was the judge who ruled, in _RTC v. Netcom_, that Netcom could potentially be held liable for contributory copyright infringement when one of their downstream customers used their network access to violate the Church of Scientology's copyright; he also presides over the _Sun v. Microsoft_ suit concerning Microsoft's license to use Sun's Java source code and trademark; and he presided over _Ebay v. Bidder's Edge_, where he ruled that Bidder's Edge's spidering of Ebay's auction site, over Ebay's objections (in English and via robots.txt), was a trespass and subject to a preliminary injuction. -- Greg Broiles gbroiles@well.com "We have found and closed the thing you watch us with." -- New Delhi street kids From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Thu Aug 30 11:41:20 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Anybody here own a town? 1201(e) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > This is brilliant. > > And it doesn't even have to be a small town. We just need a government > agency to sponsor research into information security. Wait a minute, Don't government agencies already do this? I mean, what if someone is doing university research under a DoD grant? Holy crap, it couldn't be that simple, could it? -Scott From kfoss at planetpdf.com Thu Aug 30 11:52:13 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New article. In-Reply-To: <001f01c13179$8ff22720$aa847a94@online.no> References: <132.d7c1d4.28bfb4d9@aol.com> <001f01c13179$8ff22720$aa847a94@online.no> Message-ID: >If I'm not entirely mistaken, both Dmitry and Alex Katalov - the executive >of Elcomsoft - were at DEFCON. If the FBI had wanted Elcomsoft in the first >place, they could have cuffed Alex. The focus on Dmitry Sklyarov *appeared* to be based in considerable part on the belief (of Adobe and FBI) that he was the copyright holder of Advanced eBook Processor. That appeared to be the case from viewing the splash screen of the first release of the product, the one purchased by Adobe. However, even the documentation for v.1.0 stated that "All copyrights to AEBPR are exclusively owned by ElcomSoft Co. Ltd." The subsequent release of AEBPR indicates the latter on the splash screen as well. We wrote about this a couple days after the arrest at: http://www.planetpdf.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=1546 They had the opportunity in Las Vegas to arrest up to four DEF CON Nine attendees from ElcomSoft, including both Alex and Vladimir Katalov. rgds ~ Kurt ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network -- From kmself at ix.netcom.com Thu Aug 30 11:57:30 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Anybody here own a town? 1201(e) In-Reply-To: ; from sacraver@EE.Princeton.EDU on Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:41:20PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010830115729.G21471@navel.introspect> on Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:41:20PM -0400, Xcott Craver (sacraver@EE.Princeton.EDU) wrote: > On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > > This is brilliant. > > > > And it doesn't even have to be a small town. We just need a government > > agency to sponsor research into information security. > > Wait a minute, > > Don't government agencies already do this? I mean, what if > someone is doing university research under a DoD grant? > > Holy crap, it couldn't be that simple, could it? The idea would be to commandeer the administrative apparatus such that we're pretty damned sure it would be friendly. Contracting through some existing unit is one avenue, but wouldn't provide the open-ended access I'm seeking. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010830/984406a9/attachment.pgp From andrea at gravitt.org Thu Aug 30 12:33:36 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dragoncon - Atlanta, Georgia (US) Message-ID: <005b01c1318a$adfc3740$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> I am bringing 10,000 flyers to Dragoncon this weekend to distribute to the expected 20,000 fans descending on downtown Atlanta for one of the largest science fiction/fantasy conventions around. The current plan is to put them out with the other free literature and goodies scattered around the conference facilities. If I can guilt a few more people into participating, we will be handing them out on the street. If you will be in Atlanta for the con, stop by the Electronic Frontiers Forum panels at the Hyatt. Activities run from Friday to Monday and include a wide range of technical topics. There are many scheduled on the legal aspects of the Internet, including Napster, DeCSS and the DMCA. For more information on the con, see www.dragoncon.org. Andrea From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Thu Aug 30 12:57:46 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Moscow protest: SUCCESS! References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010830105753.0238ac20@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <007201c1318e$0df6f510$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, All! Today protest in Moscow had a great success. At first we had minor misunderstanding with police, but after short 15min talks police approved that our action is a legal one and cops just present near to keep order and defend us if emergency. But at that short time few people failed to reach the protest because of police and return home. Totally we had 30 people (planned 50), standing near U.S. Ambassy and plenty of journalists from different countries, about 50% from Russia. Few people from Baumaskij University, the place, where Dimitry studied and defending PhD on eBooks, joined our action. We hold two flags -- U.S. and Russian, different signs and "FREE SKLYAROV" message on two languages. My beloved sign "SVOBODA MYSLI -- SVOBODA CODA" ("FREE THOUGHT -- FREE CODE") was taken by a girl Ivy, my student, in order to nail to the wall of her own room. Also we distributed more than 50 CD-ROMs with AEBPR, DMCA and materials on Sklyarov case. CD-ROMs were labeled: "Share this CD With Friends Spend 5 Years in Jail Pay $500,000 " Some people were in black T-Shirts for mourning of human rights in U.S. and Internet. This is the second Free Sklyarov anti-DMCA action in Moscow. Everybody enjoyed the happening and want to participate in future actions. Moscow activists decided to keep on struggling until Dmitry Sklyarov will be safe and on freedom. I expect photoes to appear on our official website ( moscow.freesklyarov.org ) in a few days. But, may be, you already saw the event on your local TV. 8-) - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://hscool.org/ From cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu Thu Aug 30 13:17:20 2001 From: cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boston protest report. Message-ID: Wow. A *great* protest today in front of the Boston Public Library. At least an order of magnitude more people than we had last week. =) Lots of enthusiasm, we handed out *hundreds* of flyers, we convinced passing motorists that the DMCA undermined that great Library sitting right across the street from us, and a few of them even honked their horns in support as they drove by! =) I saw people handing flyers through open windows, I saw mothers pushing baby carraiges holding protest signs, it was *wonderful*. Jonathan and I sang all four songs in our reportoire at full volume. Can't quite match the BBC reporter who led off her report with "The Sklyarov case is turning computer people... into *village people*"... but we certainly delivered our version of D-M-C-A with brio. =) And we tried out our Beastie Boy's filk, "You gotta fight, for your right, to reeeeaaad BOOKS" -- we'll do better at that next week. =) And, better yet, I got a small crowd of people around me at the end of the event suggesting ideas for future protests and (maybe even) volunteering to work on them! Yay, go team! Expect a bit of noise on dmitry-boston later in the week as new people join. NEXT WEEK! Next Thursday, same time (noon), same place. Next Saturday (Sept 8) we will join the national "Letter-writing day" with a cookout, probabaly at MIT, and we'll throw in a planning/organizational meeting into the event while we're at it. Jonathan Watterson wants to do another creative meeting (paint more banners, make large cardboard props) next Thursday evening after the protest maybe. Discuss this on the list, y'all. Things that paid off: working known-friendly reporters and putting up over 200 posters around MIT over the past few days. Things that didn't (yet): posts to activist mailing lists, email to campus greens, letters to libertarian david brudnoy (and many other talk show hosts), letters to individual librarians at the BPL as well as to the BPL president. So we've still got a ways to go in the coalition building process. Things I'm excited about: faculty support for a teach-in seems pretty good; I've already talked to Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn and some MIT faculty. We've got two people (Daniel Chudnov and Don Saklad) working more on the library front, and it looks promising. Personal contacts certainly work better than cold calls. With the return of MIT hackers, I'm hoping some more of my media stunt ideas will come off, and I plan to continue flyering at more Boston area campuses, since that seemed to work well. I've also got a lot of letters out there that people haven't responded to yet, hopefully we'll see some positive replies in the next week. Oh, and the RETURN OF OUR MOMENTUM! yay, go Boston! --scott MI6 anthrax Yakima General Columbia Milosevic Sigint Yeltsin atomic Treasury India Indonesia early warning KGB President smuggle FBI Suharto ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian ) -- "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970, minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4. -- [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/] #!/usr/bin/perl -w # 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz # MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout # arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order $_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5; $_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d= unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d >>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9 ,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t ^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271)) [$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval From proclus at iname.com Thu Aug 30 13:21:14 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From the Wired story In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200108302021.f7UKLF721475@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,46396,00.html Katalov: "My top concern is for Dmitry, his future and that of his young family," Katalov wrote. "Dmitry has been detained in San Francisco for a month and is unable to return to his home. ElcomSoft did not violate the letter or the intent of the DMCA, which we will prove in due time. Dmitry should not be made some sort of example." Many thanks Mr. Katalov! Regards, proclus htttp://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From russotto at pond.com Thu Aug 30 14:14:32 2001 From: russotto at pond.com (Matthew T. Russotto) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Indictment up on EFF web page Message-ID: <200108302114.RAA16655@pond.com> And boy is it ugly. The prosecution appears to be taking the position that each sale or offer for sale of a circumvention device is a separate offense. Thus if you put up a web site selling a program which is deemed to violate the DMCA, you face not 5 years in jail, but 5 years for putting up the web site, and another 10 years (EFF miscounted, I believe) for each copy of the program they can show you sold. Also they seem to believe that violating the part about "primarily designed for" is separately chargeable than the part about "marketed for", so double that. Then add 5 years for conspiracy unless you worked alone. Virtually unlimited jail time for DMCA violations; neat, eh? Count 1 is the conspiracy count (5 years) Count 2 is the "offer for sale"/"primarily designed for" count (5 years) Count 3 is the "provide and traffic"/"primarily designed for" count (10 years, as a second and subsequent offense) Count 4 is the "offer for sale"/"marketed for use in" count (10 years, as a second and subsequent offense) Count 5 is the "provide and traffic"/"marketed for use in" count (10 years, as a second and subsequent offense) Thus 40 years in prison, plus $3.5 million in fines. ($500,000 for the first DMCA violation, $1,000,000 for subsequent violations). Talk about combinatorial explosion. The DMCA does not need reform. It needs repeal. Or to be found unconstitutional on its face. From pedro at tastytronic.net Thu Aug 30 14:25:05 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago's Protest a Success! Message-ID: <20010830162505.J27069@tastytronic.net> Chicago's FREE DMITRY / Anti-DMCA protest today was a success! We had about 7 people and passed out in the neighborhood of 600 fliers -- not bad for short notice. In addition, there was a producer from WBEZ interviewing protesters -- it's unknown exactly what will come from that, but nonetheless it was nice to have someone from the media there. And what's more, the mere presence of a microphone really made more people interested. Scott Corley was our champion leafletter, passing out tons of fliers. The question then is, what now? Dmitry & Co. have plead guilty, so it looks like we'll be digging in for the long haul. Please, wherever you are, print and pass out fliers, try to write for a college or local newspaper if you can, and pester media contacts you might have for coverage. The next scheduled national event is a letter-writing day for Sept. 8th. I think it would be *absolutely great* to pick a restaurant in the city, descend on it, order a bunch of food, and then clear off the tables to write letters. People could bring their own stamps and envelopes, or someone could provide some of those things. I think that letter-writing is the next crucial step in letting the Government know that we're not going to live under the DMCA -- and that it's their responsibility to change it. Please make suggestions for restaurants that would be friendly to this kind of activity, and please make room on your schedule for this activity -- getting together to write letters is a great way to get a lot of letters written. For more information, please see http://www.freesklyarov.org/ or the Chicago site at http://chicago.freesklyarov.org/. For more up-to-the-minute news, subscribe to our mailing list at: http://ufo.chicago.il.us/mailman/listinfo/sklyarov-chicago/ Free Dmitry! pedro -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- http://www.freesklyarov.org/ From gbroiles at well.com Thu Aug 30 14:34:18 2001 From: gbroiles at well.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago's Protest a Success! In-Reply-To: <20010830162505.J27069@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010830143153.03bdcb30@pop3.norton.antivirus> I apologize for including the entire CC: list, but this is a crucial typo: At 04:25 PM 8/30/2001 -0500, Peter A. Peterson II wrote: >[...] >The question then is, what now? Dmitry & Co. have plead guilty, so it ^^^^^^^^^^^^ >looks like we'll be digging in for the long haul. Dmitry Sklyarov and Elcomsoft plead *NOT GUILTY* this morning. -- Greg Broiles gbroiles@well.com "We have found and closed the thing you watch us with." -- New Delhi street kids From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Aug 30 14:41:57 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [alexf@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu: [free-sklyarov-sfba] photos? [Re: [free-sklyarov-announce] San Francisco protest]] Message-ID: <20010830144157.R32544@zork.net> ----- Forwarded message from Alex Fabrikant ----- From: Alex Fabrikant To: free-sklyarov-sfba@lists.xcf.Berkeley.EDU Subject: [free-sklyarov-sfba] photos? [Re: [free-sklyarov-announce] San Francisco protest] Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:39:08 -0700 (PDT) On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Seth David Schoen wrote: [a nice protest report, which mentioned:] > Several people had digital still and video cameras, so I expect you'll > be able to find pictures pretty soon on > > http://sf.freesklyarov.org/ Just a reminder, if you posted pictures somewhere, send us a link at dmitry-sf@hkn.berkeley.edu so we can post it! -- -alexf _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov-sfba mailing list free-sklyarov-sfba@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-sfba ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From wild at eff.org Thu Aug 30 14:42:08 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boston protest report. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010830144107.0252bb08@pop3.norton.antivirus> A statement from Noam Chomsky and/or Howard Zinn would be helpful. Please provide copies to EFF if you get them so that we can publicize. Acquit Dmitry and Reform the DMCA, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 04:17 PM 8/30/2001 -0400, C. Scott Ananian wrote: >Wow. A *great* protest today in front of the Boston Public Library. At >least an order of magnitude more people than we had last week. =) Lots of >enthusiasm, we handed out *hundreds* of flyers, we convinced passing >motorists that the DMCA undermined that great Library sitting right across >the street from us, and a few of them even honked their horns in support >as they drove by! =) I saw people handing flyers through open windows, I >saw mothers pushing baby carraiges holding protest signs, it was >*wonderful*. Jonathan and I sang all four songs in our reportoire at full >volume. Can't quite match the BBC reporter who led off her report with >"The Sklyarov case is turning computer people... into *village people*"... >but we certainly delivered our version of D-M-C-A with brio. =) And we >tried out our Beastie Boy's filk, "You gotta fight, for your right, to >reeeeaaad BOOKS" -- we'll do better at that next week. =) > >And, better yet, I got a small crowd of people around me at the end of the >event suggesting ideas for future protests and (maybe even) volunteering >to work on them! Yay, go team! Expect a bit of noise on dmitry-boston >later in the week as new people join. > >NEXT WEEK! Next Thursday, same time (noon), same place. Next Saturday >(Sept 8) we will join the national "Letter-writing day" with a cookout, >probabaly at MIT, and we'll throw in a planning/organizational meeting >into the event while we're at it. Jonathan Watterson wants to do another >creative meeting (paint more banners, make large cardboard props) next >Thursday evening after the protest maybe. Discuss this on the list, >y'all. > >Things that paid off: working known-friendly reporters and putting up over >200 posters around MIT over the past few days. > >Things that didn't (yet): posts to activist mailing lists, email to campus >greens, letters to libertarian david brudnoy (and many other talk show >hosts), letters to individual librarians at the BPL as well as to the BPL >president. So we've still got a ways to go in the coalition building >process. > >Things I'm excited about: faculty support for a teach-in seems pretty >good; I've already talked to Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn and some MIT >faculty. We've got two people (Daniel Chudnov and Don Saklad) working >more on the library front, and it looks promising. Personal contacts >certainly work better than cold calls. With the return of MIT hackers, >I'm hoping some more of my media stunt ideas will come off, and I plan to >continue flyering at more Boston area campuses, since that seemed to work >well. I've also got a lot of letters out there that people haven't >responded to yet, hopefully we'll see some positive replies in the next >week. Oh, and the RETURN OF OUR MOMENTUM! yay, go Boston! > --scott > >MI6 anthrax Yakima General Columbia Milosevic Sigint Yeltsin atomic >Treasury India Indonesia early warning KGB President smuggle FBI Suharto > ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian ) > -- > "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is > all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970, > minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4. > -- > [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/] >#!/usr/bin/perl -w ># 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz ># MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout ># arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order >$_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5; >$_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d= >unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d > >>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9 >,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t >^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271)) >[$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From joe at pjprimer.com Thu Aug 30 15:11:07 2001 From: joe at pjprimer.com (Joe Barr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Every little bit helps Message-ID: <20010830171107.1956cc9b.joe@pjprimer.com> I wore my "Free Sklyarov" t-shirt during the Golden Penguin Bowl at Linux World Expo on Tuesday. A very small gesture, to be sure. I felt good when one of the fellow contestants remarked on it. But I feel even better about it today as I read the PC World report on the Golden Penguin Bowl and it mentioned the t-shirt. Every little bit helps. -- #===================================================================# # More dead people have written in support of Microsoft against the # # DOJ than any other single group, leading UMSA (United MS Shills # # of America) President Steve Barkto to lodge a formal complaint. # #===================================================================# From pedro at tastytronic.net Thu Aug 30 15:25:12 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago's Protest a Success! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010830143153.03bdcb30@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <20010830162505.J27069@tastytronic.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20010830143153.03bdcb30@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20010830172512.N27069@tastytronic.net> Quoting Greg Broiles: > >The question then is, what now? Dmitry & Co. have plead guilty, so it > > Dmitry Sklyarov and Elcomsoft plead *NOT GUILTY* this morning. GAR! THank you -- sorry, in my haste that escaped through my fingers. He's right -- Not Guilty! Sheesh. Too much sun while freeing Dmitry. pedro From pedro at tastytronic.net Thu Aug 30 15:31:41 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [dada@dnginc.com: RE: [sklyarov-chicago] [wild@eff.org: [DMITRY-PLAN] EFF: Russian Programmer & Co. Plead Not Guilty]] Message-ID: <20010830173141.O27069@tastytronic.net> ----- Forwarded message from Dada ----- Envelope-to: pedro@tastytronic.net From: "Dada" To: "Peter A. Peterson II" Subject: RE: [sklyarov-chicago] [wild@eff.org: [DMITRY-PLAN] EFF: Russian Programmer & Co. Plead Not Guilty] Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:06:40 -0500 I know that getting Dmitry found not guilty is our #1 concern, but at this point it is more and more out of our hands. I hope that people who live near the court house can flyer EVERY car and person each and every day before the jury arrives with information about Jury Nullification, which I think can work in his favor. More info at http://dng.nu/dada click on "08-13-2001". One thing we CAN NOT forget, even if some of you are against it, is to continue the boycott against Adobe. It is still their fault for bringing the attention of the Justice Department to Sklyarov. WE CAN NOT AND SHOULD NOT accept Adobe as an "acceptable" product, and MUST do all we can to remove their presence from our computers and those of our clients, friends, and families. Please do not forget what kicked off this outrage. While we all know the law is unconstitutional, it will never disappear as long as we show our support for big government parties like the democrats, republicans, and greens. NONE of the three want a constitutional government. dada -----Original Message----- From: sklyarov-chicago-admin@ufo.chicago.il.us [mailto:sklyarov-chicago-admin@ufo.chicago.il.us]On Behalf Of Peter A. Peterson II Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 3:49 PM To: sklyarov-chicago@tastytronic.net; ufo@tastytronic.net Subject: [sklyarov-chicago] [wild@eff.org: [DMITRY-PLAN] EFF: Russian Programmer & Co. Plead Not Guilty] Dmitry and his friends are taking one for the team! ----- End forwarded message ----- -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- http://www.freesklyarov.org/ In prison for exercising his right to "fair use." From ed at hintz.org Thu Aug 30 16:27:55 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [free-sklyarov-announce] San Francisco protest Message-ID: <200108302327.f7UNRnc08003@phil.hintz.org> On 8/30/01 2:33 PM, schoen@loyalty.org thus spake: > >Several people had digital still and video cameras, so I expect you'll >be able to find pictures pretty soon on > >http://sf.freesklyarov.org/ > Takes a while to drive back to Antioch... Here's what I got: http://nc.flyingbuttmonkeys.com/~ehintz/sf083001/ There's a little over 1 minute of video in quicktime format. I'm working on converting it but it's a very slow process, and I'm not entirely sure it's going to work properly anyway-tried it on a 2k box and the video was there but the sound was lost, mtv on my linux box just died. If somebody wants to grab the vid and convert it to mpg, please do and send it to me via mail, I'll post it. Meanwhile, I'll keep dorking with it. BTW, I really liked this photo, it reminded me of the NetBSD logo: http://nc.flyingbuttmonkeys.com/~ehintz/sf083001/DSC00016.JPG ;-) Seth or Alex (or whoever) if you would be so kind as to forward this to sfba and/or announce, please do. I can't post there, PacBell won't give me a correct reverse lookup on hintz.org so the server kills me as a possible spammer. Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mickeym at mindspring.com Thu Aug 30 18:11:20 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (Mickey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Every little bit helps References: <20010830171107.1956cc9b.joe@pjprimer.com> Message-ID: <3B8EE438.2038D84E@mindspring.com> It does help. I wear the shirt every Friday at work. When I travel, I wear it so everyone in the airport and on the plane can see it. When I went to a concert with my daughter, I wore it there and the ticket takers at the gate asked about it. They had seen it before but didn't know what it meant. It's a good way to start a conversation about it. mickeym Joe Barr wrote: > I wore my "Free Sklyarov" t-shirt during the Golden Penguin Bowl at Linux World Expo on Tuesday. A very small gesture, to be sure. I felt good when one of the fellow contestants remarked on it. But I feel even better about it today as I read the PC World report on the Golden Penguin Bowl and it mentioned the t-shirt. Every little bit helps. > > -- > #===================================================================# > # More dead people have written in support of Microsoft against the # > # DOJ than any other single group, leading UMSA (United MS Shills # > # of America) President Steve Barkto to lodge a formal complaint. # > #===================================================================# > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From martinb at kemokid.com Thu Aug 30 18:40:49 2001 From: martinb at kemokid.com (Martin Baker) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DoD crawling Message-ID: I could understand why the FBI might be crawling Sklyarov-related sites, but why the DoD? Consider this: "The authors maintain that the U.S. military must center its attention in the activities of the NGOs and Internet communication." From ben at kalifornia.com Thu Aug 30 19:43:52 2001 From: ben at kalifornia.com (Ben Ford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New article. References: <132.d7c1d4.28bfb4d9@aol.com> <001f01c13179$8ff22720$aa847a94@online.no> Message-ID: <3B8EF9E8.2070908@kalifornia.com> Lars Gaarden wrote: >From: > >>To mark the occasion, I've written an article. Let's hope that common sense >>prevails today. Good luck all. >> >>I think that this is a workable theory, what do you think. Criminal or >>Hostage? >>http://www.dotcomscoop.com/wtaw830.htm >> > >Never attribute to malice, etc.. > >If I'm not entirely mistaken, both Dmitry and Alex Katalov - the executive >of Elcomsoft - were at DEFCON. If the FBI had wanted Elcomsoft in the first >place, they could have cuffed Alex. > Alex was sitting next to him while he gave his speech. By the way, that link should be http://www.dotcomscoop.com/wtaw830.html -b -- Number of restrictions placed on "Alice in Wonderland" (public domain) eBook: 5 Maximum penalty for reading "Alice in Wonderland" aloud (possible DMCA violation): 5 years jail Average sentence for commiting Rape: 5 years From kfoss at planetpdf.com Thu Aug 30 20:02:23 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New article. In-Reply-To: <3B8EF9E8.2070908@kalifornia.com> References: <132.d7c1d4.28bfb4d9@aol.com> <001f01c13179$8ff22720$aa847a94@online.no> <3B8EF9E8.2070908@kalifornia.com> Message-ID: At 7:43 PM -0700 8/30/01, Ben Ford wrote: >Alex was sitting next to him while he gave his speech. Nope, that was Andy Maleyshev (sp), another ElcomSoft colleague, the one who was actually with Dmitry when the FBI arrested him. ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network -- From ben at kalifornia.com Thu Aug 30 20:03:47 2001 From: ben at kalifornia.com (Ben Ford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New article. References: <132.d7c1d4.28bfb4d9@aol.com> <001f01c13179$8ff22720$aa847a94@online.no> <3B8EF9E8.2070908@kalifornia.com> Message-ID: <3B8EFE93.3090600@kalifornia.com> Kurt Foss wrote: > At 7:43 PM -0700 8/30/01, Ben Ford wrote: > >> Alex was sitting next to him while he gave his speech. > > > Nope, that was Andy Maleyshev (sp), another ElcomSoft colleague, the > one who was actually with Dmitry when the FBI arrested him. My bad, didn't realize so many of them were there. I didn't hear him introduced and assumed it was Alex, as he is the only other ElcomSoft that I had heard mentioned. -b -- Number of restrictions placed on "Alice in Wonderland" (public domain) eBook: 5 Maximum penalty for reading "Alice in Wonderland" aloud (possible DMCA violation): 5 years jail Average sentence for commiting Rape: 5 years From Robloch at aol.com Thu Aug 30 20:08:34 2001 From: Robloch at aol.com (Robloch@aol.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: Article Message-ID: To mark the occasion, I've written an article. Let's hope that common sense >>prevails today. Good luck all. >> >>I think that this is a workable theory, what do you think. Criminal or >>Hostage? >>http://www.dotcomscoop.com/wtaw830.htm >> > >Never attribute to malice, etc.. > >If I'm not entirely mistaken, both Dmitry and Alex Katalov - the executive >of Elcomsoft - were at DEFCON. If the FBI had wanted Elcomsoft in the first >place, they could have cuffed Alex. > Alex was sitting next to him while he gave his speech. By the way, that link should be http://www.dotcomscoop.com/wtaw830.html -b -- Number of restrictions placed on "Alice in Wonderland" (public domain) eBook: 5 Maximum penalty for reading "Alice in Wonderland" aloud (possible DMCA violation): 5 years jail Average sentence for commiting Rape: 5 years ------------------- The point that I would still make is, to my understanding, they couldn't arrest the owners of Elcomsoft at DEFCOM because that would not have been consistent with the complaint procedure against a corporation. Leading on from that, the possibilty that I was addressing in the article was whether conceivably argue that they arrested Dmitry as a way of getting to Elcomsoft. Personally I think that they just went off on one, but I thought it worth consideration. This is the US Government after all. From kfoss at planetpdf.com Thu Aug 30 20:56:35 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New article. In-Reply-To: <3B8EFE93.3090600@kalifornia.com> References: <132.d7c1d4.28bfb4d9@aol.com> <001f01c13179$8ff22720$aa847a94@online.no> <3B8EF9E8.2070908@kalifornia.com> <3B8EFE93.3090600@kalifornia.com> Message-ID: At 8:03 PM -0700 8/30/01, Ben Ford wrote: >>At 7:43 PM -0700 8/30/01, Ben Ford wrote: >> >>>Alex was sitting next to him while he gave his speech. >> >> >>Nope, that was Andy Maleyshev (sp), another ElcomSoft colleague, the >>one who was actually with Dmitry when the FBI arrested him. > > >My bad, didn't realize so many of them were there. I didn't hear >him introduced and assumed it was Alex, as he is the only other >ElcomSoft that I had heard mentioned. I believe both Katalov brothers were seated in the front row. rgds ~ Kurt -- From bahrainperson1 at cyber-rights.net Thu Aug 30 22:04:03 2001 From: bahrainperson1 at cyber-rights.net (bahrainperson1@cyber-rights.net) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Anybody here own a town? 1201(e) Message-ID: <200108310447.VAA21286@pl1.hushmail.com> >On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > >> This is brilliant. >> >> And it doesn't even have to be a small town. We just need a government >> agency to sponsor research into information security. > > Wait a minute, > > someone is doing university research under a DoD grant? > > Holy crap, it couldn't be that simple, could it? > > -Scott No it is not that simple. What you are talking about is not a protection but a legal technicality. Here is the scenario. You release some software, paper, speech, or just tell you neighbor that you can break some eBook format. The company who makes said software hears about it, calls the FBI, has you arrested, you are placed in Jail, maybe can make bail if it is even granted and you await your court date. Now assuming that you have the resources you go through a 6-36 month process of hearings, trials, appeals, motions and other legal wranglings you maybe, maybe, get free. That is if your lawyer manages to convince a jury and/or judge that you fit the very narrow loophole. So you are free, big deal. You are financially devasted, probably unemployed, maybe unemployable since you were not exonerated, your were let go on a technicality. You know what that means to most people? You are guilty but your scumbag lawyer managed to lie enough for you so that you could get off. Heck, even people who are found innocent are often still considered guilty by the very fact you were even charged, after all innocent people are never charged right? Listen, this law does one thing, it strips you of your rights, all for the greed of a few. Rights a lot of people fought long and hard to get for you. From jono at microshaft.org Thu Aug 30 23:27:20 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [DMCA_discuss] Senator plans anti-piracy bill] Message-ID: <20010830232720.G38923@networkcommand.com> Senator plans anti-piracy copyright legislation: Consumer electronics hardware makers, including computer manufacturers, would be required to develop anti-piracy technology to be included in their products under proposed legislation from Senate Commerce Committee Chairman Ernest "Fritz" Hollings, D-S.C. http://currents.net/news/01/08/28/news2.html NZ Crime bill targets hackers, DoS Attacks (possibly security researchers): http://www.idgnet.co.nz/webhome.nsf/UNID/269577935B2CD8B0CC256AAD00811EB6!opendocument _______________________________________________ ------------------------ http://www.anti-dmca.org ------------------------ DMCA_discuss mailing list DMCA_discuss@lists.microshaft.org http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss ----- End forwarded message ----- From jono at microshaft.org Thu Aug 30 23:50:27 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Senator plans anti-piracy bill In-Reply-To: <20010830232720.G38923@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 11:27:20PM -0700 References: <20010830232720.G38923@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010830235027.I38923@networkcommand.com> Humm, what do we have here? http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib/N00002423.htm ERNEST F. HOLLINGS (D-SC) Top Contributors 2 Time Warner $33,500 6 News Corp $28,224 11 National Assn of Broadcasters $22,000 16 Walt Disney Co $18,500 ERNEST F. HOLLINGS (D-SC) Top Industries 1 Lawyers/Law Firms $1,215,300 2 TV/Movies/Music $287,534 On 30-Aug-2001, Jon O . wrote: > > Senator plans anti-piracy copyright legislation: > > Consumer electronics hardware makers, including computer manufacturers, would be required to develop anti-piracy technology to be included in their products under proposed legislation from Senate Commerce Committee Chairman Ernest "Fritz" Hollings, D-S.C. > > http://currents.net/news/01/08/28/news2.html > > > NZ Crime bill targets hackers, DoS Attacks (possibly security researchers): > http://www.idgnet.co.nz/webhome.nsf/UNID/269577935B2CD8B0CC256AAD00811EB6!opendocument > > > _______________________________________________ > > > ------------------------ > http://www.anti-dmca.org > ------------------------ > > DMCA_discuss mailing list > DMCA_discuss@lists.microshaft.org > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jays at panix.com Fri Aug 31 02:03:41 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [DMCA_discuss] Senator plans anti-piracy bill] In-Reply-To: <20010830232720.G38923@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Jon O . wrote: > > Senator plans anti-piracy copyright legislation: > > Consumer electronics hardware makers, including computer > manufacturers, would be required to develop anti-piracy technology to > be included in their products under proposed legislation from Senate > Commerce Committee Chairman Ernest "Fritz" Hollings, D-S.C. > > http://currents.net/news/01/08/28/news2.html What is at stake here is not the extension of copyright holders' powers. No, what is at stake here is private ownership of computers. This proposed "anti-piracy" hardware is not anti-copyright infringement hardware. It is universal spyware. A few meg of which placed inside every home and small office machine will end private ownership of computers. oo--JS. From jays at panix.com Fri Aug 31 03:15:09 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New York Times story on court appearance Message-ID: http://archive.nytimes.com/2001/08/31/technology/31HACK.html oo--JS. From jays at panix.com Fri Aug 31 03:49:55 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] from the library front Message-ID:
By Albert Henderson, Bridgeport, CT Don't condemn copyright http://libraryjournal.reviewsnews.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA152779 Letters By Staff -- 9/1/2001 Departments > Letters Cahner's Library Jornal By Jeff Clark -- 6/15/2001 Libraries and the Fate of Digital Content http://libraryjournal.reviewsnews.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA85274 Exempt status is the holy grail, but libraries can't wait for that to happen Features > Future of the Library Cahner's Library Jornal By Roy Tennant The Copyright War http://libraryjournal.reviewsnews.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA85272 6/15/2001 Infotech > Digital Libraries Cahner's Library Jornal By Roy Tennant Copyright and Intellectual Property Rights http://www.libraryjournal.com/articles/infotech/digitallibraries/19990801_4925.asp August 1, 1999 Infotech Digital Libraries Library Journal Digital
From martinb at kemokid.com Fri Aug 31 04:05:07 2001 From: martinb at kemokid.com (Martin Baker) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA used to shut down animal-rights site Message-ID: Salon article: "The DMCA is the next major assault on nonprofit organizations, specifically those with few resources. Can they defend themselves and how well can they defend themselves? We have to make a stance in some way for free speech." http://www.salon.com/tech/log/2001/08/31/dmca_animals/index.html Martin From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Aug 31 06:16:12 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA used to shut down animal-rights site In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Martin Baker wrote: > Salon article: > > "The DMCA is the next major assault on nonprofit organizations, > specifically those with few resources. Can they defend themselves and how > well can they defend themselves? We have to make a stance in some way for > free speech." > > http://www.salon.com/tech/log/2001/08/31/dmca_animals/index.html This and another DMCA article on Salon are grouped on the front page under the header, "The worst law ever?" I guess the DMCA is making the news frequently enough to warrant its own section. The DMCA has been aimed at quite a diverse array of victims now. I can see why people suggested a 60 minutes piece: what a powerful story it would be, just to tie together all the different people around the world hit by this law: a Russian grad student, a Princeton Professor, a journalist for a hacker magazine, a teenager who wanted to watch DVDs under Linux, and an animal rights group. Now all we need is a wild animal trainer, a shrubber, and an expert on the naked mole rat. Contrast this diversity with the soulless uniformity of their tormentors. A this company, a that company a this industry, a that industry. They all have the same basic motivations, and the same amazing ability to pick their targets very badly. > Martin Scott From lkmlists at lukemelia.com Fri Aug 31 06:36:43 2001 From: lkmlists at lukemelia.com (Luke Melia) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New York Times story on court appearance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The letter to the editor I just fired off to the NY Times... Keep up the fight, Luke Dear Editors, Jennifer Lee's update on the Sklyarov case (Russian Programmer Enters Plea, 8/31/01) casts an unfortunate light on the public opposition to the charges. Ms. Lee calls the case a "cause c?l?bre," and notes the t-shirts and bumper stickers selling online. Those comments nearly poke fun at an incredibly concerned opposition movement that rightfully sees the case and the DMCA has a huge civil liberties infringement. The DMCA dictates a significant transformation of copyright in our society; a transformation that has effects directly opposite to the copyright law's original intentions. The computer geeks on the front lines of the digital age are working hard to protect us all from the chilling effects of this law, whether or not we have taken the time to fully understand it's implications for society. Let's give them a bit more credit than noting their t-shirts and bumper stickers. LUKE MELIA NEW YORK, NY At 6:15 AM -0400 8/31/01, Jay Sulzberger wrote: >http://archive.nytimes.com/2001/08/31/technology/31HACK.html > >oo--JS. > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- luke@lukemelia.com http://www.lukemelia.com "I am a work in progress, dressed in the fabric of a world unfolding / Offering me intricate patterns of questions, rhythms that never come clean / And strengths you still haven't seen."--Ani DiFranco 8^> From kmself at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 31 07:29:55 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New York Times story on court appearance In-Reply-To: ; from lkmlists@lukemelia.com on Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 09:36:43AM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010831072955.A22249@navel.introspect> on Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 09:36:43AM -0400, Luke Melia (lkmlists@lukemelia.com) wrote: > The letter to the editor I just fired off to the NY Times... > > Keep up the fight, > Luke > > > Dear Editors, > > Jennifer Lee's update on the Sklyarov case (Russian Programmer Enters > Plea, 8/31/01) casts an unfortunate light on the public opposition to > the charges. Ms. Lee calls the case a "cause c?l?bre," and notes the > t-shirts and bumper stickers selling online. I think you've seriously misread Jennifer 8 Lee's reporting. She's noting the level of public support and outrage over the case. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010831/e25d9d3d/attachment.pgp From daddict at defcon.org Fri Aug 31 09:52:15 2001 From: daddict at defcon.org (dead addict) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New York Times story on court appearance References: Message-ID: <001801c1323d$4a0f6000$6401a8c0@nullop> "The trial will be scheduled at a hearing on Sept. 4. Mr. Sklyarov has been free on $50,000 bail since Aug. 6. He lives in Cupertino, Calif." Looks like a factual error. Imagine a factual error in the NYTIMES. DA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Sulzberger" To: Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 3:15 AM Subject: [free-sklyarov] New York Times story on court appearance > http://archive.nytimes.com/2001/08/31/technology/31HACK.html > > oo--JS. > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Aug 31 08:04:12 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Elcomsoft response to charges Message-ID: <20010831080412.F32544@zork.net> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ELCOMSOFT EXECUTIVE RESPONDS TO FEDERAL CHARGES AGAINST DMITRY SKLYAROV Contacts: Paul Vogel, (503) 805-5139, (503) 684-7219 Joseph M. Burton, Duane, Morris & Heckscher LLP, (415) 371-2214. For Immediate Release ELCOMSOFT EXECUTIVE RESPONDS TO FEDERAL CHARGES AGAINST DMITRY SKLYAROV SAN FRANCISCO, Calif. (August 30, 2001) - After federal charges were brought against his company and one of his employees on Tuesday, Alex Katalov, president of ElcomSoft Co. Ltd., responded saying, "I am saddened by the Justice Department's treatment of my employee and friend, Dmitry Sklyarov. This is a very unfortunate and misguided attempt to enforce the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). It appears that the Justice Department is looking for its first test case under the DMCA, but they have mistakenly singled out an individual, simply for developing a program." Sklyarov was originally arrested at a computer and Internet conference in Las Vegas on July 16th, after he delivered a presentation. "My top concern is for Dmitry, his future, and that of his young family," Katalov said. "Dmitry has been detained in San Francisco for a month and is unable to return to his home. ElcomSoft did not violate the letter or the intent of the DMCA, which we will prove in due time. Dmitry should not be made some sort of example." Sklyarov's Attorney, Joseph M. Burton of Duane Morris in San Francisco, said, "The government wants you to think this is about copyright infringement and enforcing the DMCA. It's not." Burton asserted that ElcomSoft and Sklyarov will refute the Justice Department's allegations. "According to the indictment this situation existed for a sum total of 25 days. This hardly would seem to merit criminal prosecution," Burton added. In their arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov, the government apparently thought they had a rogue cyber-pirate or "hacker." Ironically, ElcomSoft and the government have in the past and continue to work hand-in-hand to fight crime. ElcomSoft Co. Ltd., is a ten-year old company that develops software to recover computer passwords and provide computer security. ElcomSoft also helps identify, trace and shut down hackers, software pirates and cyber-thieves. Their software and consulting services are used in over 80 countries and by U.S law enforcement agencies from the FBI to county sheriffs and local police departments. The DMCA exists to prosecute those who have no regard for property and intellectual property rights. "ElcomSoft is the exact opposite of those kinds of people," Katalov stated. "We have worked for so long and so closely with law enforcement in this country, you can imagine our surprise that the Justice Department thinks we are criminals. We hope ElcomSoft will have the opportunity to make our case in U.S. courts." ElcomSoft, (www.elcomsoft.com) is headquartered in Moscow, with approximately 20 employees. Its Password Recovery Kit software is sold and licensed to a majority of Fortune 500 companies and major accounting firm in the U.S., as well as U.S. military, intelligence and law enforcement agencies throughout the country. # # # Alexander Katalov also pointed out that in response to numerous inquiries, a defense fund has been established. Those interested in contributing to Sklyarov's defense fund should make donations by wire to: First Union National Bank Philadelphia, PA ABA #031201467 Account #: 2000104359781 Account Name: Duane, Morris & Heckscher LLP Escrow Account Contributors MUST reference "The Dmitri Defense Fund - R0247-2" on all incoming wires. Donations by Check should be sent to the following address: The Dmitri Defense Fund c/o Duane, Morris & Heckscher LLP 100 Spear Street, Suite 1500 San Francisco, California 94105 USA Checks must be payable to "DMH Escrow Agent for Dmitri Defense Fund". ElcomSoft Co.Ltd. Member of Association of Shareware Professionals (ASP) Member of Russian Cryptology Association (RCA) mailto:info@elcomsoft.com http://www.elcomsoft.com http://www.mailutilities.com =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Aug 31 08:08:24 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NEW: Elcomsoft Executive Responds To Federal Charges Against Dmitry Sklyarov In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010831080824.G32544@zork.net> Kurt Foss writes: > Elcomsoft Executive Responds To Federal Charges Against Dmitry Sklyarov > > Alex Katalov, president of ElcomSoft Co. Ltd. of Moscow, Russia, made > his first public statement since Dmitry Sklyarov, his employee, and > his company were indicted by a U.S. court on five counts of violating > the country's Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). Calling the > federal government's allegations "a very unfortunate and misguided > attempt" to set a precedent by singling out the young programmer and > his employer, Katalov appeared ready to take up the issues in court. > "ElcomSoft did not violate the letter or the intent of the DMCA, > which we will prove in due time," he says. > > http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=219 Oops, _that's_ where I saw that press release before. Sorry for the duplication. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From akatalov at elcomsoft.com Fri Aug 31 10:47:01 2001 From: akatalov at elcomsoft.com (Alex Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New York Times story on court appearance In-Reply-To: <20010831072955.A22249@navel.introspect> References: <20010831072955.A22249@navel.introspect> Message-ID: <18221501405.20010831104701@elcomsoft.com> Dear Karsten, >> Jennifer Lee's update on the Sklyarov case (Russian Programmer Enters >> Plea, 8/31/01) casts an unfortunate light on the public opposition to >> the charges. Ms. Lee calls the case a "cause c?l?bre," and notes the >> t-shirts and bumper stickers selling online. KMS> I think you've seriously misread Jennifer 8 Lee's reporting. She's KMS> noting the level of public support and outrage over the case. As you may not know - Dmitry and me met Jennifer at DefCon, a day bafore Dmitry was arrested. She was one of my first phone calls (really - third, after calls to Russian Consulate and to local FBI office :-)) at July 16, when I learn that Dmitry was detained. And she follows this story from early beginning and throw all these hard days (for example - I saw she on protests in San Francisco in July). Well, may be sometimes she doesn't understand some details, but she is really friendly! -- Best regards, Alex mailto:akatalov@elcomsoft.com From jays at panix.com Fri Aug 31 11:16:22 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New York Times story on court appearance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Luke Melia wrote: > The letter to the editor I just fired off to the NY Times... > > Keep up the fight, > Luke Jennifer 8 and Amy Harmon are sound. They have done a good job in their reports on the Sklyarov case and on the DMCA. oo--JS. > > > Dear Editors, > > Jennifer Lee's update on the Sklyarov case (Russian Programmer Enters > Plea, 8/31/01) casts an unfortunate light on the public opposition to > the charges. Ms. Lee calls the case a "cause c=E9l=E8bre," and notes the > t-shirts and bumper stickers selling online. > > Those comments nearly poke fun at an incredibly concerned opposition > movement that rightfully sees the case and the DMCA has a huge civil > liberties infringement. The DMCA dictates a significant > transformation of copyright in our society; a transformation that has > effects directly opposite to the copyright law's original intentions. > > The computer geeks on the front lines of the digital age are working > hard to protect us all from the chilling effects of this law, whether > or not we have taken the time to fully understand it's implications > for society. Let's give them a bit more credit than noting their > t-shirts and bumper stickers. > > LUKE MELIA > NEW YORK, NY < ... /> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > luke@lukemelia.com http://www.lukemelia.com > > "I am a work in progress, dressed in the fabric of a world unfolding > / Offering me intricate patterns of questions, rhythms that never > come clean / And strengths you still haven't seen."--Ani DiFranco > 8^> From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Aug 31 11:31:36 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New York Times story on court appearance In-Reply-To: <18221501405.20010831104701@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Alex Katalov wrote: > As you may not know - Dmitry and me met Jennifer at DefCon, a day > bafore Dmitry was arrested. She was also at Usenix on the 15th, where she asked me detailed questions about our research. I'm sure she had no intention of belittling the Free Sklayov crowd, even if she did do so---I didn't get any such impression from the article's wording, myself. -X [We also swapped explanations for our weird names.] From jays at panix.com Fri Aug 31 12:01:45 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] CIA funds anonymous web surfing (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 09:26:18 -0400 From: Arnold G. Reinhold To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu, cryptography@wasabisystems.com Subject: CIA funds anonymous web surfing Today's Boston Globe and New York Times report that the CIA is funding Sefeweb technology that lets users surf the Web anonymously. The parent agency of the Voice of America is negotiating a license for the technology to use in bypassing China's 'Net censorship. "The US-funded network of proxy servers running Triangle Boy would provide a ''dynamic, constantly changing set of access points through which Internet surfers in China can connect to VOA and to other Web sites that are typically blocked,' Hsu [Safeweb CEO] said." http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/243/nation/US_to_help_thwart_China_s _Web_censors+.shtml So if a U.S. citizen working as a programmer on this project visits China to deliver a paper at a conference and is arrested for conspiracy to violate China's laws, will the U.S. consider the arrest and subsequent prosecution a legitimate expression of Chinese sovereignty? Arnold Reinhold --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo@wasabisystems.com From jays at panix.com Fri Aug 31 12:08:45 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: CIA funds anonymous web surfing (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 10:59:39 -0400 From: Peter F Cassidy To: Arnold G. Reinhold Cc: dcsb@ai.mit.edu, cryptography@wasabisystems.com Subject: Re: CIA funds anonymous web surfing What the Chinese need to do is redefine their national firewall as a content control and protection strategy under the DMCA. Then they could get the RIAA to lobby Justice to indict the CIA. If it works, RIAA could contract with the Chinese Army to enforce copyright the way the oil companies use mercenary armies to protect working wells and land leases in Latin America. Win-win. Peter On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Arnold G. Reinhold wrote: > Today's Boston Globe and New York Times report that the CIA is > funding Sefeweb technology that lets users surf the Web anonymously. > The parent agency of the Voice of America is negotiating a license > for the technology to use in bypassing China's 'Net censorship. > > "The US-funded network of proxy servers running Triangle Boy would > provide a ''dynamic, constantly changing set of access points through > which Internet surfers in China can connect to VOA and to other Web > sites that are typically blocked,' Hsu [Safeweb CEO] said." > > http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/243/nation/US_to_help_thwart_China_s > _Web_censors+.shtml > > So if a U.S. citizen working as a programmer on this project visits > China to deliver a paper at a conference and is arrested for > conspiracy to violate China's laws, will the U.S. consider the arrest > and subsequent prosecution a legitimate expression of Chinese > sovereignty? > > > Arnold Reinhold > > For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to > "dcsb-request@reservoir.com" with one line of text: "help". > --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo@wasabisystems.com From akatalov at elcomsoft.com Fri Aug 31 12:10:29 2001 From: akatalov at elcomsoft.com (Alex Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New York Times story on court appearance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <11826509621.20010831121029@elcomsoft.com> As some PR agency explained me (I don't know much about american press) - NY Times is one of the major national "free speach" supporters. May be, sometimes, "free speach" is not the same as "anti-DMCA" - but it's really very close !!! >> As you may not know - Dmitry and me met Jennifer at DefCon, a day >> bafore Dmitry was arrested. XC> She was also at Usenix on the 15th, where she asked me XC> detailed questions about our research. I'm sure she had XC> no intention of belittling the Free Sklayov crowd, even if XC> she did do so---I didn't get any such impression from the article's XC> wording, myself. XC> -X XC> [We also swapped explanations for our weird names.] XC> _______________________________________________ XC> free-sklyarov mailing list XC> free-sklyarov@zork.net XC> http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Best regards, Alex mailto:akatalov@elcomsoft.com From karl at karl.com Fri Aug 31 12:15:39 2001 From: karl at karl.com (Karl J. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA used to shut down animal-rights site References: Message-ID: <3B8FE25B.7010604@karl.com> Martin Baker wrote: >Salon article: > >"The DMCA is the next major assault on nonprofit organizations, >specifically those with few resources. Can they defend themselves and how >well can they defend themselves? We have to make a stance in some way for >free speech." > >http://www.salon.com/tech/log/2001/08/31/dmca_animals/index.html > Could a writer in a dispute with a film company (e.g. Disney) about misappropriated ideas, use the 'takedown' provisions to get www.disney.com turned off for 10 days? From rknop at pobox.com Fri Aug 31 13:08:06 2001 From: rknop at pobox.com (Robert Knop) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] U.S. DOD looking for pro-Sklyarov pages In-Reply-To: <134701173.999069285805.JavaMail.root@boots> Message-ID: > >I am curious about what this spider is, but on the other > >hand, government interest in your web site is not always > >sinister. > > Couldn't somebody could just be browsing these pages > while they're at work at the pentagon???? Hell, I had browsed some of those pages at the place I was formerly employed, which was in the ".lbl.gov" domain. It's Lawrence Berkeley Lab in Berkeley, which is a DOE lab but which has nothing to do with Lawrence Livermore Lab or anything military. Any hits you get from that site are not "official government snooping," but individuals, likely scientists taking a break, who happen to be at work while cruising the web. Many if not most of them are more likely to be sympathetic with the pro-sklyarov argument in this case. -Rob From crism at maden.org Fri Aug 31 13:10:33 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] U.S. DOD looking for pro-Sklyarov pages In-Reply-To: References: <134701173.999069285805.JavaMail.root@boots> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010831130958.00a4f020@mail.maden.org> At 13:08 31-08-2001, Robert Knop wrote: >Hell, I had browsed some of those pages at the place I was formerly >employed, which was in the ".lbl.gov" domain. Did you browse /robots.txt? I doubt it. That's something a spider looks for. -crism From ed at hintz.org Fri Aug 31 13:26:36 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [free-sklyarov-announce] San Francisco protest Message-ID: <200108312026.f7VKQSc05729@phil.hintz.org> On 8/30/01 4:27 PM, ed@hintz.org thus spake: >There's a little over 1 minute of video in quicktime format. I'm working >on converting it but it's a very slow process, and I'm not entirely sure >it's going to work properly anyway-tried it on a 2k box and the video was >there but the sound was lost, mtv on my linux box just died. If somebody >wants to grab the vid and convert it to mpg, please do and send it to me Got the mpg up: http://nc.flyingbuttmonkeys.com/~ehintz/sf083001/083001sf.mpg Again, unknown how compatible it will be. If somebody wants to finesse it by all means do so and let me know. But don't mail it to me this weekend, I'll be in the Sierras with only dialup... Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From joe at pjprimer.com Fri Aug 31 14:16:28 2001 From: joe at pjprimer.com (Joe Barr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DoD crawling In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010831161628.1213d8d4.joe@pjprimer.com> My sources have pegged the spider's url as resolving to the Air Force branch of the NSA. On Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:40:49 -0700 (PDT) Martin Baker wrote: > I could understand why the FBI might be crawling Sklyarov-related sites, > but why the DoD? Consider this: > > "The authors maintain that the U.S. military must center its > attention in the activities of the NGOs and Internet communication." > > From http://students.washington.edu/loren/htmlpages/news/randreport.html > which is a review of _The Zapatista "Social Netwar" in Mexico_, a US > Army-funded RAND study: > > http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR994/ > > The Free Sklyarov protests are a good example of decentralized protest > organized across the country, even the world, using the Internet. As far > as I know, we have not made any connections to other movements. I would > imagine that one thing the DoD could be doing is trying to identify the > individuals involved in our protests and see whether these individuals are > involved in other protests or activist groups. > > NB: the study was completed in 1998, so it doesn't consider the more > visible, recent events of Seattle, Quebec, Genoa, etc. > > You gotta feel sorry for the DoD. They invent this Internet thing, and > then people turn it around and use it to organize against the ruling > interests, threatening their precious "stability". > > Martin > > PS. DoD: To make your lives a little easier, I was at a couple of protests > in SF against the police brutality in Genoa, and I'm thinking of working > with Food Not Bombs cause they're so damn cool. :-) > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > -- #===================================================================# # More dead people have written in support of Microsoft against the # # DOJ than any other single group, leading UMSA (United MS Shills # # of America) President Steve Barkto to lodge a formal complaint. # #===================================================================# From jeme at brelin.net Fri Aug 31 14:38:41 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New York Times story on court appearance In-Reply-To: <001801c1323d$4a0f6000$6401a8c0@nullop> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, dead addict wrote: > "The trial will be scheduled at a hearing on Sept. 4. Mr. Sklyarov has > been free on $50,000 bail since Aug. 6. He lives in Cupertino, Calif." > > Looks like a factual error. No, it's a purposeful misdirection. They NEED to dispel the idea that a Russian is being held for something he did in Russia... they're saying "Oh, he SOUNDS Russian... and the company he works for is in Moscow... but he lives in Cupertino... he's an entrepreneurial dotcommer." And then, in five or six days, after people's opinions have had a chance to settle and everyone's read the article and had it thrown in their faces by their friends in media, the NYT will put a retraction on page D23 in a little box that says "Page B1 contained an article that used the words 'Cupertino, Calif' in place of 'Moscow, Russia'. The New York Times regrets the error." And they've made their lie stick without actually, obviously lying. This is done in television news QUITE regularly. > Imagine a factual error in the NYTIMES. I'm not touching that one. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Fri Aug 31 14:40:06 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [DMCA_discuss] Senator plans anti-piracy bill] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > This proposed "anti-piracy" hardware is not anti-copyright > infringement hardware. It is universal spyware. A few meg of which > placed inside every home and small office machine will end private > ownership of computers. Actually, it's the end of PUBLIC ownership. The private ownership is just beginning. This new situation is one in which some private corporation will own the PC you keep on your desk and the public will have no rights because the public doesn't have "significant commercial interests." Laissez Fuckyou. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From larsg at eurorights.org Fri Aug 31 14:47:32 2001 From: larsg at eurorights.org (Lars Gaarden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New York Times story on court appearance References: Message-ID: <003b01c13266$8a50f920$aa847a94@online.no> From: "Xcott Craver" > [We also swapped explanations for our weird names.] And now you made sure that all the rest of us are dying to know. Shame on you. :) -- LarsG From seth.johnson at RealMeasures.dyndns.org Fri Aug 31 14:49:17 2001 From: seth.johnson at RealMeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Senator plans anti-piracy bill References: Message-ID: <3B90065D.27730928@RealMeasures.dyndns.org> Straight up, Jeme! :-) Seth Johnson Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > Actually, it's the end of PUBLIC ownership. From admin at seattle-chat.com Fri Aug 31 15:47:13 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [DMCA_discuss] Senator plans anti-piracy bill] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: They'll be able to own my computer when they can pry it out of my cold dead fingers. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Jeme A Brelin Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 2:40 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] [DMCA_discuss] Senator plans anti-piracy bill] On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > This proposed "anti-piracy" hardware is not anti-copyright > infringement hardware. It is universal spyware. A few meg of which > placed inside every home and small office machine will end private > ownership of computers. Actually, it's the end of PUBLIC ownership. The private ownership is just beginning. This new situation is one in which some private corporation will own the PC you keep on your desk and the public will have no rights because the public doesn't have "significant commercial interests." Laissez Fuckyou. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jays at panix.com Fri Aug 31 16:09:11 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [DMCA_discuss] Senator plans anti-piracy bill] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Charles Eakins wrote: > They'll be able to own my computer when they can pry it out of my cold dead > fingers. Indeed. But after Congress passes the Universal Defense of Copyright Act, you will not be able to buy a new machine that you alone control. And use of old "legacy piracy devices" on the Net will consitute a felony. Detection, accusation, no trial, and removal will be automatic. Today the Velociraptor Sytem of Licensed Access is almost ready for mandated all Earth deployment. The Microsoft component "Papers Please!" is already installed in all Starbucks. For your convenience! oo--JS. > > -----Original Message----- > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Jeme A Brelin > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 2:40 PM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] [DMCA_discuss] Senator plans anti-piracy > bill] > > > > On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > > This proposed "anti-piracy" hardware is not anti-copyright > > infringement hardware. It is universal spyware. A few meg of which > > placed inside every home and small office machine will end private > > ownership of computers. > > Actually, it's the end of PUBLIC ownership. > > The private ownership is just beginning. This new situation is one in > which some private corporation will own the PC you keep on your desk and > the public will have no rights because the public doesn't have > "significant commercial interests." > > Laissez Fuckyou. > J. > -- > ----------------- > Jeme A Brelin > jeme@brelin.net > ----------------- > [cc] counter-copyright > http://www.openlaw.org > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From jeme at brelin.net Fri Aug 31 16:28:50 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [DMCA_discuss] Senator plans anti-piracy bill] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > But after Congress passes the Universal Defense of Copyright Act, you > will not be able to buy a new machine that you alone control. And use > of old "legacy piracy devices" on the Net will consitute a felony. Oh, it won't be an act of Congress. This will be a dictum from the Computer Freedom Consortium made up of the largest and "most interested" players in the internet (read: e-commerce and advertising). Congress takes a "hands-off" approach to the internet and the White House has stated that it is "best to let the market regulate itself". So the commissions of private industry will come to outweigh the citizens. Listen to that statement again "let the market regulate itself". This presupposes that the whole internet is a market and you and I are participants in that market... and since we're not businesses, we must be consumers. But I'm not a consumer on the internet, I'm a citizen. I'm not here to practice commerce, I'm here to practice communication. And I'm not a participant in the market, I'm a participant in a community. I say, let the community regulate itself. And the community's commercial interests are few compared with their non-commercial interests. A community should have a democratic structure. > Detection, accusation, no trial, and removal will be automatic. > Today the Velociraptor Sytem of Licensed Access is almost ready for > mandated all Earth deployment. The Microsoft component "Papers > Please!" is already installed in all Starbucks. For your convenience! That part is completely accurate. And we can thank NewsCorp, Disney, Viacom, Bertelsman and AOL/TimeWarner for it. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jono at microshaft.org Fri Aug 31 18:02:46 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [dmca-discuss] Russia issues travel advisory for travel to US Message-ID: <20010831180246.B43782@networkcommand.com> ------- Forwarded Message ---------------- To: "Dmca_Discuss" Subject: [DMCA_discuss] [dmca-discuss] Russia issues travel advisory for travel to US Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 21:02:59 -0400 This just in -- do you think anyone would have believed a story like this even ten years ago? http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/nm/20010831/tc/tech_russia_usa_dc_1.html Friday August 31 1:36 PM ET Russia Warns Computer Experts on U.S. Travel MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia warned its computer experts on Friday of the dangers of visiting the United States after a Russian software designer was arrested there for violating a controversial new law. ... He was arrested while visiting a hackers' convention in the United States. _______________________________________________ ------------------------ http://www.anti-dmca.org ------------------------ DMCA_discuss mailing list DMCA_discuss@lists.microshaft.org http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss ----- End forwarded message ----- From davidg at dnai.com Fri Aug 31 20:31:58 2001 From: davidg at dnai.com (David Gould) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [DMCA_discuss] Senator plans anti-piracy bill] In-Reply-To: ; from admin@seattle-chat.com on Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 03:47:13PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010831203158.B54910@foo.dnai.com> On Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 03:47:13PM -0700, Charles Eakins wrote: > They'll be able to own my computer when they can pry it out of my cold dead > fingers. As the alien bug said to Elroy in "Men in Black": "Those terms are acceptable." -dg -- David Gould davidg@dnai.com If simplicity worked, the world would be overrun with insects. From kfoss at planetpdf.com Fri Aug 31 20:51:08 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FYI> Russian government issues DMCA warning Message-ID: Russian government issues DMCA warning The Russian Foreign Ministry issued a warning today to the country's software programmers and other technology specialists, cautioning them to be leery about the possibility of being entrapped while in -- or while working with companies from -- the United States. The statement is a direct result of the arrest and indictment on alleged DMCA violations of ElcomSoft Ltd. software programmer Dmitry Sklyarov, a situation the government and its agencies say they are closely watching. http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=223 *includes link to Ministry statement ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Aug 31 20:56:54 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New York Times story on court appearance In-Reply-To: <003b01c13266$8a50f920$aa847a94@online.no> References: <003b01c13266$8a50f920$aa847a94@online.no> Message-ID: <20010831205654.O32544@zork.net> Lars Gaarden writes: > From: "Xcott Craver" > > [We also swapped explanations for our weird names.] > > And now you made sure that all the rest of us are dying > to know. Shame on you. :) Jennifer Lee is named "8" because that's good luck. The period after the "8" is, she says, "not a period -- it's a decimal point". -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Aug 31 21:02:25 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New York Times story on court appearance In-Reply-To: <11826509621.20010831121029@elcomsoft.com> References: <11826509621.20010831121029@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: <20010831210225.P32544@zork.net> Alex Katalov writes: > As some PR agency explained me (I don't know much about american > press) - NY Times is one of the major national "free speach" > supporters. May be, sometimes, "free speach" is not the same as > "anti-DMCA" - but it's really very close !!! They were involved in some high-profile court cases about free speech rights. See, e.g., http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=403&invol=713 http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=376&invol=254 -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From steve at theStarport.org Fri Aug 31 21:08:01 2001 From: steve at theStarport.org (Stephen R. Savitzky) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A historical "perspective" In-Reply-To: "Jon O ."'s message of "Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:02:46 -0700" Message-ID: What if today's copyright laws had been around in, say, 1776? Would Francis Scott Key have been thrown back in jail for stealing the tune of "To Anacreon in Heaven" to use for "The Star Spangled Banner?" I find it amusing that so many of the US's patriotic songs, including its national anthem, were written to borrowed tunes. What about "My Country 'Tis of Thee", to the tune of "God Save the King"? Could our revolution have been nipped in the bud by vigorous copyright enforcement? This sort of thing isn't allowed anymore, even if you pay royalties on the music, without the permission of the copyright holders. Would anyone have been able to read Paul Revere's one-bit digital message ("one if by land, two if by sea" -- adding one to each bit is an obvious form of encoding) if a password had been required? Would he even have been able to _send_ it if the encoding method had been patented? Would the Declaration of Independence still be in the Library of Congress if it had been written in digital-rights-managed bits instead of durable hard-copy parchment? [Readers from other countries can easily subsitute examples from their own history. The Soviet-era _samizdat_ comes to mind, for instance. ] -- / Steve Savitzky \ 1997 Pegasus Award winner: best science song--+ \ / http://theStarport.com/people/steve/ V \ \ hacker/songwriter: http://theStarport.com/people/steve/Doc/Songs/ \_ Kids' page: MOVED ---> http://Interesting.Places.to/Browse/forKids/ _/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Fri Aug 31 21:13:48 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [dmca-discuss] Russia issues travel advisory for travel to US In-Reply-To: <20010831180246.B43782@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010901041348.74742.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> can one of our russian friends translate this and send it back? this states that the foreign ministry is aware of dima and following closely the developments: http://www.ln.mid.ru/website/brp_4.nsf/9f9f2a6497b5822f43256a2900463456/76d5b2ff0b4bdcd943256ab90053d49b?OpenDocument --- "Jon O ." wrote: > > > > ------- Forwarded Message ---------------- > > To: "Dmca_Discuss" > > Subject: [DMCA_discuss] [dmca-discuss] Russia issues > travel advisory for travel to US > Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 21:02:59 -0400 > > This just in -- do you think anyone would have > believed a story like this > even ten years ago? > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/nm/20010831/tc/tech_russia_usa_dc_1.html > > Friday August 31 1:36 PM ET > > Russia Warns Computer Experts on U.S. Travel > MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia warned its computer > experts on Friday of the > dangers of visiting the United States after a > Russian software designer was > arrested there for violating a controversial new > law. > > ... > > He was arrested while visiting a hackers' convention > in the United States. > > _______________________________________________ > > > ------------------------ > http://www.anti-dmca.org > ------------------------ > > DMCA_discuss mailing list > DMCA_discuss@lists.microshaft.org > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From kfoss at planetpdf.com Fri Aug 31 21:24:17 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [dmca-discuss] Russia issues travel advisory for travel to US In-Reply-To: <20010901041348.74742.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010901041348.74742.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: At 9:13 PM -0700 8/31/01, alfee cube wrote: >can one of our russian friends translate this and send >it back? this states that the foreign ministry is >aware >of dima and following closely the developments: You can also read an English-language report on the statement from Russian media at: RUSSIA'S FOREIGN MINISTRY WARNS ALL RUSSIAN PROGRAMMERS AGAINST FALLING INTO TRAP ON US TERRITORY http://en.rian.ru/rian/index.cfm?prd_id=160&msg_id=1842916&startrow=11&date=2001-08-31&do_alert=0 rgds ~ Kurt ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network -- From jono at microshaft.org Fri Aug 31 22:10:16 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [dmca-discuss] Russia issues travel advisory for travel to US In-Reply-To: <20010901041348.74742.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com>; from sisgeek@yahoo.com on Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 09:13:48PM -0700 References: <20010831180246.B43782@networkcommand.com> <20010901041348.74742.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010831221016.J43782@networkcommand.com> Apply this tool to your link: http://www.translate.ru/eng/url/tran_url.php Or: http://www.translate.ru/eng/url/tu_body.php?PHPSESSID=003b707cae9211cc1cd5534065e6485b&url=http://www.ln.mid.ru/website/brp_4.nsf/9f9f2a6497b5822f43256a2900463456/76d5b2ff0b4bdcd943256ab90053d49b?OpenDocument the APPLICATION of the OFFICIAL REPRESENTATIVE of the Ministries of Foreign Affairs of RUSSIA In connection with business of Russian programmer D.Skljarova, of the prisoner in USA 1537-31-08-2001 We watch closely development of a situation on Russian programmer Dmitry Skljarova, of the prisoner in USA on the basis of the American law " About protection of copyrights in digital millenium ". It is the first case of application of the given law in practice. Accepted in 1998, it(he) causes ambiguous reaction among lawyers, including in USA, many of which consider, that the law breaks rights of users on freedom of transfer of the electronic data. [SNIP] On 31-Aug-2001, alfee cube wrote: > can one of our russian friends translate this and send > it back? this states that the foreign ministry is > aware > of dima and following closely the developments: > > http://www.ln.mid.ru/website/brp_4.nsf/9f9f2a6497b5822f43256a2900463456/76d5b2ff0b4bdcd943256ab90053d49b?OpenDocument > > --- "Jon O ." wrote: > > > > > > > > ------- Forwarded Message ---------------- > > > > To: "Dmca_Discuss" > > > > Subject: [DMCA_discuss] [dmca-discuss] Russia issues > > travel advisory for travel to US > > Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 21:02:59 -0400 > > > > This just in -- do you think anyone would have > > believed a story like this > > even ten years ago? > > > > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/nm/20010831/tc/tech_russia_usa_dc_1.html > > > > Friday August 31 1:36 PM ET > > > > Russia Warns Computer Experts on U.S. Travel > > MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia warned its computer > > experts on Friday of the > > dangers of visiting the United States after a > > Russian software designer was > > arrested there for violating a controversial new > > law. > > > > ... > > > > He was arrested while visiting a hackers' convention > > in the United States. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > ------------------------ > > http://www.anti-dmca.org > > ------------------------ > > > > DMCA_discuss mailing list > > DMCA_discuss@lists.microshaft.org > > > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss > > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger > http://im.yahoo.com From kmself at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 31 23:10:23 2001 From: kmself at ix.netcom.com (Karsten M. Self) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Anybody here own a town? 1201(e) In-Reply-To: <200108310447.VAA21286@pl1.hushmail.com>; from bahrainperson1@cyber-rights.net on Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 10:04:03PM -0700 References: <200108310447.VAA21286@pl1.hushmail.com> Message-ID: <20010831231023.H1223@navel.introspect> on Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 10:04:03PM -0700, bahrainperson1@cyber-rights.net (bahrainperson1@cyber-rights.net) wrote: > >On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > > >> This is brilliant. > >> > >> And it doesn't even have to be a small town. We just need a government > >> agency to sponsor research into information security. > > > > Wait a minute, > > > > someone is doing university research under a DoD grant? > > > > Holy crap, it couldn't be that simple, could it? > > > > -Scott > > > No it is not that simple. What you are talking about is not a protection > but a legal technicality. > > Here is the scenario. You release some software, paper, speech, or > just tell you neighbor that you can break some eBook format. The > company who makes said software hears about it, calls the FBI, has you > arrested, you are placed in Jail, maybe can make bail if it is even > granted and you await your court date. Now assuming that you have the > resources you go through a 6-36 month process of hearings, trials, > appeals, motions and other legal wranglings you maybe, maybe, get > free. That is if your lawyer manages to convince a jury and/or judge > that you fit the very narrow loophole. If the RIAA, AAP, et al, want to challange the 1201(e) exemption in this case, then it calls into question what can or cannot be used as legitimate law enforcement exemption of the DMCA. There's already a strong borderline situation with Echelon, Carnivore, and similar spook snoop tools. France, among other countries, has accused the US of engaging in industrial espionage via communications intercepts by national intelligence operations. Under the DMCA, such intercepts are probably illegal, and almost certainly fall outside the scope of 1201(e) exemptions *if they are used for industrial espionage*. The fun part is that there are several interests outside the US who have little concern for US copyright law, and are less than pleased with commercial use of intelligence activities (not to mention intelligence activities themselves). A nice nasty case in front of the WTO, or against the US Government itself under US law in US courts, could get interesting. > So you are free, big deal. You are financially devasted, probably > unemployed, Square one at the moment ;-) <...> > Listen, this law does one thing, it strips you of your rights, all for > the greed of a few. Rights a lot of people fought long and hard to get > for you. > > >From where I stand now it looks like the only thing that is going to > get Dimitri out of jail and prevent this travesty from happening again > is for that law to be torn up, scredded, de-inked, and burned to ash. > Along the way you might want to do something about that dubious > "contributory infringement" insanity, well First things first. > > Those of us with IT backgrounds have to stop thinking like > programmers, there is no work around, no technical solution. L. Lessig > is right, the only way we are gonna beat the lawyers that he and > Stanford are pumping out every year is to start playing the game > ourselves. I disagree strongly with this sentiment. I'm drawing strongly from the GNU GPL. RMS saw copyrighting of software as a bad thing, but realized there was no way he was going to singlehandedly overturn the law. He engaged in a bit of guerilla guru: apply copyright to a work, then apply a set of conditions to it such that the exclusive rights of the copyright holder are freely granted, so long as a set of "play nice" rules are adhered to. I've read Lessig's essay posted here today, I've read a number of his other essays, as well as _Code and Other Laws of Cyberspace_. He's a truly great legal mind, who absolutely understands both the significance and vulnerabilities of the free software, and public domain copyright, arena. I'm not so certain that his assessment of the problem is correct, or that the EFF's strategy of direct confrontation is the way to fly. In _Code_, Lessig identifies four sources of authority: Law, Market, Architecture (code), and Norms. Our real opponent isn't really the law, it's the market. Absent a market backing this law, we could change the statute. But the market also works for us: there's a strong demand for content absent the artificial constraints imposed by a media monopoly, witness Napster's success, and the emergent of successors far more immune from centralized enforcement. We have working for us Architecture (code), and norms. Big Business imposing million dollar fines, and quarter century prison sentences, on foreign conference attendees doesn't play well. We've scared Adobe silent on this issue (we now need to scare them to our side). Crackdowns on teens swapping music, grandmothers exchanging needlepoint patterns, jazz musicians, and other small, publicly appealing, target (see "Is Content Protection on the Web Achievable?", previously mentioned here by Seth Shoen: http://www.seyboldreport.com/WP99/contentpro.htm). > Lets take some pages out of the books of some of the more powerful > lobbies like the NRA. They have managed to make amazing concessions > over the years to gun control despite the fact they endorse products > that by in large have very few uses but to kill people. Obviously > some of their methods are pretty effective. Fueled by huge revenues on the part of the gun industry, gun clubs, hunting clubs, and a membership that's amenable and responsive to organization. Hardly the herd of cats we've got here. I think we'd be far better to *find* organized groups with large constituencies that we can bring on board. There are several that I've mentioned to EFF folk, some that would be absolutely golden. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010831/ff7509a6/attachment.pgp From akatalov at elcomsoft.com Fri Aug 31 23:33:01 2001 From: akatalov at elcomsoft.com (Alex Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New York Times story on court appearance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16711844761.20010831233301@elcomsoft.com> Dear Jeme, Friday, August 31, 2001, 2:38:41 PM, you wrote: JAB> On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, dead addict wrote: >> "The trial will be scheduled at a hearing on Sept. 4. Mr. Sklyarov has >> been free on $50,000 bail since Aug. 6. He lives in Cupertino, Calif." >> >> Looks like a factual error. JAB> No, it's a purposeful misdirection. Hmmm.... But "since Aug.6" Dmitry _exactly_ "lives in Cupertino, Calif." - in his custodian's house!!! Look at this phrase: "Mr. Sklyarov has been free on $50,000 bail. Since Aug. 6. he lives in Cupertino, Calif." - change the "dot" placement - and all seems to be OK now :-)))) -- Best regards, Alex mailto:akatalov@elcomsoft.com From ukraine at prp.ru Fri Aug 31 16:26:38 2001 From: ukraine at prp.ru (Olia Binkovskaya) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:07:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [DMCA_discuss] Senator plans anti-piracy bill] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear all, please advise me is any groups or mailing lists in Ukraine exist? Best regards, Olia Bin'kovskaya