From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 02:53:51 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]_New York Times_ article: "U.S. Arrests Russian Cryptographer as Copyright Violator" Message-ID: <20010718025351.S29904@zork.net> I met this reporter at DEF CON (in a conference session on the DMCA!), and she was very nice. http://archive.nytimes.com/2001/07/18/technology/18CRYP.html This story updates some details, but doesn't say where Mr. Sklyarov is now or who is co-ordinating defense for him. I'm going to ask Ms. Lee to let me know if she gets any new information. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From pablos at kadrevis.com Wed Jul 18 03:06:31 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]News links Message-ID: <3458502.995425591@[10.0.1.220]> Here are the other news links so you don't have to go looking: http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/07/17/hacker.arrest.reut/index.html http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45298,00.html http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-6592390.html http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/07/17/130226&mode=thread http://securitygeeks.shmoo.com/article.php?story=20010717083820248 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/20444.html http://www.msnbc.com/news/601585.asp http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010717/tc/tech_hacker_arrest_dc_1.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/18/technology/18CRYP.html Pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From karl.deabrew at binarything.com Wed Jul 18 04:49:02 2001 From: karl.deabrew at binarything.com (Karl De Abrew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]News links Message-ID: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F4B9@mail.roundtable.com.au> We're maintaining a full list here at: http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=170 _________________________________________ Karl De Abrew karl.deabrew@binarything.com http://www.planetpdf.com/ http://www.planetebook.com/ http://www.xmlarena.com/ http://www.binarything.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network > -----Original Message----- > From: Pablos Kadrevis [mailto:pablos@kadrevis.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 8:07 PM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: [free-sklyarov]News links > > > Here are the other news links so you don't have to go looking: > > http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/07/17/hacker.arrest.reut > /index.html > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45298,00.html > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-6592390.html > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/07/17/130226&mode=thread > http://securitygeeks.shmoo.com/article.php?story=20010717083820248 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/20444.html > http://www.msnbc.com/news/601585.asp > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010717/tc/tech_hacker_arrest > _dc_1.html > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/18/technology/18CRYP.html > > Pablos. > -- > Pablos Kadrevis > pablos@kadrevis.com > 415.420.3806 > www.shmoo.com/~pablos > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From dw2 at opencontent.org Wed Jul 18 09:41:22 2001 From: dw2 at opencontent.org (David Wiley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]In D.C. next week Message-ID: <3B55BC32.1D5F733E@opencontent.org> I'm going to be in Washington, D. C. next week. What should I do while I'm there? Suggestions? David -- David Wiley, Ph.D. Instructional Technology Utah State University Impress your friends, anger the MPAA! Decode DVD's with 7 lines of PERL! For more info, see http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 18 09:30:35 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Free Skylarov Street Action Strike Force! Message-ID: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Hey, so, what's the plan? What are we going to do? For Bayareans, I'd suggest that we do a protest outside of Adobe sometime early next week -- Monday or Tuesday. It's not like Skylarov's locked up in a conference room in Adobe somewhere, but they're the party with the most to lose in terms of publicity. Also, it might be cool to do some outreach to Russian groups, if they exist and are interested (and there sure are a lot of Russians around the Bay Area). _We_ tend to think of this as an information freedom issue, but I think there's some international law issues, too. Other potential allies: Local 2600 Meetings EFF (?) Oh, yeah: anyone banked "freeskylarov.org" yet? ~Klepht P.S. A "Free Skylarov" web page would probably get ./'d. P.P.S. Is Don Marti involved yet? -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ Free Skylarov! From andrea at gravitt.org Wed Jul 18 10:46:18 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]In D.C. next week Message-ID: <000e01c10fb1$9b1e5950$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> >I'm going to be in Washington, D. C. next week. What should I do while >I'm there? Suggestions? Try to make an appointment to see your Representative or Senator and politely introduce the issue. It might be hard to do, but you can give it a shot. It is particularly helpful if yours is on some relevant committee, you can influence policy if you are in the right place at the right time. You can do this through the staff in the district offices in advance. I am working on a letter myself, and I hope that maybe I will have some impact. My representive is a member of the Committee on International Relations. Even if you don't get a meeting, or for those not so geographically convenient, write a letter. Tell your elected official what the problem is, why you are concerned, and what this means for the country as a whole. And do write a letter, although some in Washington are using email, you will make a much better impression on paper. Although I have not used it, I understand that www.congress.org offers a service where they will deliver your message, either by email or paper. Andrea, in Atlanta From jaxs at enteract.com Wed Jul 18 10:48:15 2001 From: jaxs at enteract.com (Jason Kaye) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Free Skylarov Street Action Strike Force! In-Reply-To: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: I think we should protest StarBucks :) ....it was kinda strange being at DefCon9 and listening to the "Meet the FBI" roundtable..they painted a picture of themselves as a friend and we should all work together...and then BAM the next day he gets busted... Something REALLY needs to be done about this law. cheers jaxs -- jason.kaye@point0.com Point Zero Network Consultants, Inc. Pointing out Possibilities; Zeroing in on their solutions. http://www.point0.com -- On 18 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > Hey, so, what's the plan? What are we going to do? > > For Bayareans, I'd suggest that we do a protest outside of Adobe > sometime early next week -- Monday or Tuesday. It's not like > Skylarov's locked up in a conference room in Adobe somewhere, but > they're the party with the most to lose in terms of publicity. > > Also, it might be cool to do some outreach to Russian groups, if they > exist and are interested (and there sure are a lot of Russians around > the Bay Area). _We_ tend to think of this as an information freedom > issue, but I think there's some international law issues, too. > > Other potential allies: > > Local 2600 Meetings > EFF (?) > > Oh, yeah: anyone banked "freeskylarov.org" yet? > > ~Klepht > > P.S. A "Free Skylarov" web page would probably get ./'d. > > P.P.S. Is Don Marti involved yet? > > -- > klepht@eleutheria.org > http://www.eleutheria.org/ > Free Skylarov! > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From bill at scannell.org Wed Jul 18 10:51:06 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Russian Press Reaction In-Reply-To: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: I spent several hours on the 'phone with friends and old colleagues in Moscow last night. According to them, the Skylarov story has either led or been number two in the news line-up in all Russian papers, radio and TV. If we're lucky, this will turn into an full-blown international incident. My Muscovite buddies see three possibilities: 1. That Putin will use this as a stick to beat on Bush with. 2. That there will be a quiet diplomatic solution 3. That the Russians will fully 'cooperate' with the US and launch an investigation in Russian against Skylarov. The smart money is on option two. I have also been asked to write a commentary for the Friday edition of the Moscow Times. -Bill ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 18 10:41:03 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Free Skylarov Street Action Strike Force! In-Reply-To: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> References: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <871ynecez4.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "K" == Klepht writes: K> Other potential allies: K> Local 2600 Meetings EFF (?) I forgot cypherpunks. Cypherpunks! ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From andrea at gravitt.org Wed Jul 18 11:06:55 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]EFF Message-ID: <002b01c10fb4$c8dc5f60$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> The EFF coverage is here: http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010717_eff_sklyarov_pr.html Other relevant topics are of course the RIAA issue with the SDMI Challenge paper by a group of university researchers and the many people being sued over DeCSS. EFF has numerous pages on DMCA issues and their involvement in various legal cases. At the risk of sounding like an advertisement, please consider being a member and making a donation. The large corporations that bought and paid for bad laws like the DMCA have all the money in the world to fund their legal departments and harass people. It is very embarrassing to see my country's legal system used as a blunt instrument to protect corporate bullies. Andrea From bill at scannell.org Wed Jul 18 11:10:38 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Adobe Disinvestment Campaign In-Reply-To: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: After an IP glitch is sorted out, http://www.boycottadobe.com will be live on the web later today. Please wait until the site is up and running before posting the URL...I'll email the list as soon as it's live. Together with Paul Holman of the Shmoo Group, I've put together a site that will hopefully make other companies think twice about using the DMCA to turn security experts into felons. The logo is meant to symbolise the Stalinist tactics used by Adobe against a Russian citizen in the USA. I believe it is important we keep the focus on Adobe, not the US government. Corporate behavior is a lot easier to change quickly than US law. -Bill PS: If you like the attached logo, send a note to dgross@mimetic.com and tell him how cool it is. Feel free to use the logo as part of any protests or campaigns you may come up with. ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? -------------- next part -------------- Skipped content of type multipart/appledouble From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 11:10:54 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov][alex@pilosoft.com: sklyarov, cont'd] Message-ID: <20010718111054.F8506@zork.net> ----- Forwarded message from Alex Pilosov ----- Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 12:14:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Alex Pilosov To: dc-stuff@dis.org Subject: sklyarov, cont'd Andy Malyshev, the other person from elcomsoft, posted more information about it on http://www.passwords.ru/arrest.htm Translation: >From 11 to 16th of July I was at Las Vegas for DefCon 9 conference alongside my coworker Dmitry Sklyarov who was presenting at the conference. In the morning of July 16th, we left the hotel and decided to go to airport. There were approximately 1.5 hours till our flight. Right before we went through the doors, two persons approached us, shouting "Hands on the wall, FBI". Thinking its a someone's bad joke (and there were a lot of jokes about the feds at the conference), Dmitry laughend and even tried to answer back,. But he was rudely told again "Hands on the wall". I was asked for a key from the hotel room and asked for an interview. A little bit later, Dmitry was brought into the room, he was already handcuffed. Two more FBI employees who apparently controlled the street, arrived later. Dmitry asked for handcuffs to be moved forward, as its very unconfortable to sit with hands cuffed behind your back. He was denied that request. FBI employee introduced himself and said that there are no claims against me, and they have arrived to arrest Dmitry. They politely asked to talk to me. To my question "Why was Dmitry arrested" the answer was that he was charged with violation of DMCA. Initiator of a process and prosecution was Adobe Corp. No further details were told to me, they only said that they are executing orders. I was asked a few questions, to which they obviously knew answers. They asked me to take Dmitry's stuff, motivating it "They might get lost in US". To the question about Dmitry's future, they said he'll be taken to the FBI local office, where they'll clear up some questions, and then to the judge who will make the final decision. All of above happened in Alexis Park Hotel, Las Vegas NV. On the road to LA I was followed, quite [unconspiciously | rudely]. When I tried to make a phone call in airport, a cop ran to the neighbouring phone, pretending to make a call, but he didn't. Details about the conflict you can read at Elcomsoft's site:http://www.elcomsoft.com/aebpr.html Official report of FBI agent who arrested Dmitry you can see here: http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=168 -alex ----- End forwarded message ----- (That document on planetebook.com is actually the affivadit submitted before the arrest.) -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 11:11:51 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]News links In-Reply-To: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F4B9@mail.roundtable.com.au>; from karl.deabrew@binarything.com on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 07:49:02AM -0400 References: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F4B9@mail.roundtable.com.au> Message-ID: <20010718111151.A22106@zork.net> begin Karl De Abrew quotation: > We're maintaining a full list here at: > http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=170 This is good stuff. Seth, perhaps you should add a link to this in the public information page for this list. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 11:14:14 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Adobe Disinvestment Campaign In-Reply-To: ; from bill@scannell.org on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 01:10:38PM -0500 References: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010718111414.G8506@zork.net> Bill Scannell writes: > PS: If you like the attached logo, send a note to dgross@mimetic.com and > tell him how cool it is. Feel free to use the logo as part of any protests > or campaigns you may come up with. At the risk of dragging in somewhat unrelated issues, http://www.burnallgifs.org/ -- last time a Silicon Valley company was protested for making legal threats against software developers, it was Unisys, with their LZW patent. This situation is much more serious, with an individual's personal liberty at stake, but it would be cool if you could have a non-GIF version of your logo. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From bill at scannell.org Wed Jul 18 11:15:52 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Sklyarov Defence Fund In-Reply-To: <002b01c10fb4$c8dc5f60$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> Message-ID: Is there anyone (EFF?) that can start a defence fund for Sklyarov? In addition, I spoke to both of his colleagues and they are also running pretty low on cash, something that will be a problem if they need to stay in the US for any length of time. Ideas, anyone? -Bill ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 11:18:33 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Adobe Disinvestment Campaign In-Reply-To: ; from bill@scannell.org on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 01:10:38PM -0500 References: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010718111833.A22633@zork.net> begin Bill Scannell quotation: > The logo is meant to symbolise the Stalinist tactics used by Adobe > against a Russian citizen in the USA. It's cute, but it's in the GIF format, which is subject to patent claims by the Unisys corporation. See http://burnallgifs.org for the full story. I have converted it to png, a superior format to GIF that suffers no patent encumbrances: http://zork.net/pub/boycottadobe.png -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 11:22:34 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]News links In-Reply-To: <20010718111151.A22106@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 11:11:51AM -0700 References: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F4B9@mail.roundtable.com.au> <20010718111151.A22106@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010718112234.I8506@zork.net> Nick Moffitt writes: > begin Karl De Abrew quotation: > > We're maintaining a full list here at: > > http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=170 > > This is good stuff. Seth, perhaps you should add a link to > this in the public information page for this list. I agree and have done so. Keep up the good work, folks. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 11:24:59 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Free Skylarov Street Action Strike Force! In-Reply-To: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 09:30:35AM -0700 References: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010718112459.B22633@zork.net> begin Klepht quotation: > Oh, yeah: anyone banked "freeskylarov.org" yet? > P.S. A "Free Skylarov" web page would probably get ./'d. We'd have to grab "freesklyarov" as well as the misspelling above. The machine that hosts this mailing list could support a freesklyarov.org Web site, and come through a slashdotting fairly intact. It's sitting largely alone on a 600kbps SDSL link, so it's not a super powerhouse, but it has survived slashdotting before. > P.P.S. Is Don Marti involved yet? Wearing his burnallgifs-style hat, I'm not sure. But if you were to send him an article on the Sklyarov case, I'm sure he'd be able to get it published. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to Wed Jul 18 11:38:15 2001 From: noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to (robyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Sklyarov Defence Fund In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Has anyone contacted Jeff Moss yet? I get a strong sense from the people on dc-stuff and #dc-stuff that they want to help out; they just need some direction. Ideally, a paypal acct or something similar to which they can donate their nickels and dimes. On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Bill Scannell wrote: > Is there anyone (EFF?) that can start a defence fund for Sklyarov? In > addition, I spoke to both of his colleagues and they are also running pretty > low on cash, something that will be a problem if they need to stay in the US > for any length of time. > > Ideas, anyone? > > -Bill > ? > > Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? > > ? > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From bill at scannell.org Wed Jul 18 11:48:24 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Sklyarov Defence Fund In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think we all know that Jeff Moss would have trouble organising the consumption of ale in a fermented beverage production facility. From what I understand from Alexander (Sklyarov's colleague), Moss has done f*uck all to help out. Don't hold your breath waiting for Moss to get his act together. -Bill on 18.7.01 13:38, robyn at noise@noisebox.cypherpunks.to wrote: > Has anyone contacted Jeff Moss yet? I get a strong sense from the people > on dc-stuff and #dc-stuff that they want to help out; they just need some > direction. Ideally, a paypal acct or something similar to which they can > donate their nickels and dimes. > > On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Bill Scannell wrote: > >> Is there anyone (EFF?) that can start a defence fund for Sklyarov? In >> addition, I spoke to both of his colleagues and they are also running pretty >> low on cash, something that will be a problem if they need to stay in the US >> for any length of time. >> >> Ideas, anyone? >> >> -Bill >> ? >> >> Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? >> >> ? >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> free-sklyarov mailing list >> free-sklyarov@zork.net >> http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From mvb at telebyte.nl Wed Jul 18 11:53:07 2001 From: mvb at telebyte.nl (Marcel van Beurden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]EFF In-Reply-To: <002b01c10fb4$c8dc5f60$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> Message-ID: <3B55F733.2271.22F9C5@localhost> > EFF has numerous pages on DMCA issues and their involvement in various legal > cases. At the risk of sounding like an advertisement, please consider being > a member and making a donation. The large corporations that bought and paid > for bad laws like the DMCA have all the money in the world to fund their > legal departments and harass people. I'm getting my credit card right now... > It is very embarrassing to see my country's legal system used as a blunt > instrument to protect corporate bullies. I'm happy to see there are also sane Americans. Go and multiply ! ;-) Marcel (The Netherlands) From kfoss at planetpdf.com Wed Jul 18 11:42:50 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]News links In-Reply-To: <20010718111151.A22106@zork.net> References: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F4B9@mail.roundtable.com.au> <20010718111151.A22106@zork.net> Message-ID: Thanks! We began covering this brewing legal situation since June 22 when Vladimir Katlakov sent a press release for their new Advanced eBook Processor product to our Planet PDF and Planet eBook Web sites. Planet eBook was the first to break the story of the arrest, and the two sites coontinue working on some original content relevant to the story and potential court trial. The original AEBPR press release is among the documents we've now re-posted, one copy of which is at: http://www.planetpdf.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=1542 If you are aware of significant coverage or related information that we don't have listed at the URL below, please feel free to let us know at one or both of the following addresses: mailto:editor@planetebook.com and/or mailto:editor@planetpdf.com We're trying to be non-judgmental in our coverage, so we're interested in presenting both perspectives and letting readers form their own opinions. >begin Karl De Abrew quotation: >> We're maintaining a full list here at: >> http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=170 > > This is good stuff. Seth, perhaps you should add a link to >this in the public information page for this list. rgds ~ Kurt -- ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network From noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to Wed Jul 18 12:00:36 2001 From: noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to (robyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Sklyarov Defence Fund In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I wasn't clear. Mea culpa. What I wanted to know was whether Jeff had some "official" thoughts on the topic before I began directly soliciting funds from defcon goers (who appear eager to help as soon as we've got some place to point them). On a related topic, are any of the 2600 people on board yet? I'd be happy to figure out how to set up a defense fund this afternoon, but I'd rather rely on someone who's done it before. -- noise. On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Bill Scannell wrote: > I think we all know that Jeff Moss would have trouble organising the > consumption of ale in a fermented beverage production facility. From what I > understand from Alexander (Sklyarov's colleague), Moss has done f*uck all to > help out. > > Don't hold your breath waiting for Moss to get his act together. > > -Bill > From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Wed Jul 18 12:00:06 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]juridical procedures Message-ID: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk> Does anyone know the juridical procedures in such case? How long can it take until his next appearance in the court? Is there any source of information about Califironian laws? anton From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 12:09:27 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]juridical procedures In-Reply-To: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk>; from a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 08:00:06PM +0100 References: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20010718120927.D22633@zork.net> begin Anton Chterenlikht quotation: > Does anyone know the juridical procedures in such case? How long can > it take until his next appearance in the court? Is there any source > of information about Califironian laws? My impression is that it is a federal case that happens to be tried in California. That's why the FBI were brought in in Las Vegas. Of course, I'm not even a proper armchair legal student, let alone a lawyer. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 12:16:54 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]juridical procedures In-Reply-To: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk>; from a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 08:00:06PM +0100 References: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20010718121654.O8506@zork.net> Anton Chterenlikht writes: > Does anyone know the juridical procedures in such case? I'm _not a lawyer_ and will give you my own understanding of the situation. Unlike other previous DMCA cases, this is a criminal case, not a civil case. This means, among other things, that Mr. Sklyarov has additional protections (such as the privilege against self-incrimination, the right to counsel, and the presumption of innocence) but that the plaintiff is the government and can use certain government powers in its investigation and prosecution of the case. In addition, it means that Mr. Sklyarov can be sentenced to jail if he is convicted. Self-incrimination: Mr. Sklyarov cannot be compelled to say anything which could be used against him, or to testify. He must be advised that statements he makes to police can be used against him. Counsel: If Mr. Sklyarov does not have a lawyer, the court must appoint a lawyer to represent him for free. The lawyer's fees must be paid by the government (although in practice the lawyer will normally be a public defender who is already employed by the government). Presumption of innocence: The court and the government must assume that Mr. Sklyarov is innocent until and unless he is proven guilty. They must not claim that it has been proven that he has violated the law; he retains his civil rights in general (although he can be detained!); and members of the public are not supposed to claim that he has been convicted or that he has committed a crime. (If they do, Mr. Sklyarov can sue them for defamation.) The U.S. Attorney and his colleagues in the Department of Justice are allowed to claim that Mr. Sklyarov has committed a crime, but they must not claim that this has been proven. There are also other constitutional rights such as the right to a speedy and public trial, as well as other standards for the treatment of prisoners and the disposition of some of their requests. It's really quite elaborate. A trial would be governed by the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, which you can find, for example, at http://www.law.ukans.edu/research/frcrimI.htm There's lots of other procedure (arraignment, bail, etc.) and I don't know where to find information on that. > How long can it take > until his next appearance in the court? I believe his arraignment will be very soon, because there are strict limits on how long people can be detained before they are charged with something. I will call the San Francisco public defender today to see if there is any information. > Is there any source of information about > Califironian laws? It's U.S. Federal law rather than California state law. There are many such sources; a few are http://www.findlaw.com/ http://www.law.cornell.edu/ -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 12:21:44 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]juridical procedures In-Reply-To: <20010718120927.D22633@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 12:09:27PM -0700 References: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk> <20010718120927.D22633@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010718122144.P8506@zork.net> Nick Moffitt writes: > begin Anton Chterenlikht quotation: > > Does anyone know the juridical procedures in such case? How long can > > it take until his next appearance in the court? Is there any source > > of information about Califironian laws? > > My impression is that it is a federal case that happens to be > tried in California. That's why the FBI were brought in in Las Vegas. > Of course, I'm not even a proper armchair legal student, let alone a > lawyer. This is correct; the complaint was filed in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California, which is a Federal court that sits in California. It does not appear that there are _any_ claims under California law. The DMCA is a Federal law which was an amendment to the Copyright Act, a Federal law which makes up Title 17 of the United States Code. The Northern District sits in three locations: in San Francisco, in San Jose, and in Oakland. All of these are in San Francisco Bay Area and somewhat accessible by public transit. The U.S. Attorney's Office which brought the complaint is located in the same building in San Francisco where the Court sits in this city. I was there yesterday, by a complete co-incidence, but I didn't go inside. I'm still trying to find out where the District Court keeps prisoners: it seems that they have three different detention locations, depending on which location hearings are to be held. John Young said that Mr. Sklyarov was being taken to Santa Clara County (i.e. San Jose), but the FBI agents told the press he was being taken to San Francisco. San Francisco certainly makes more sense to me if the prosecutors who are trying to prosecute him are located here and the judge who issued the warrant is located here. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From katie at eff.org Wed Jul 18 12:21:41 2001 From: katie at eff.org (Katie Lucas) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Sklyarov Defence Fund In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.1.20010718120857.025fcb50@pop3.spa.norton.antivirus> Just to let you guys know, the Electronic Frontier Foundation is working on this case, along with several others. We will have a statement released some time today, which will be sent on to this list. Thanks for all your support. If you would like to support our work and donate to a defense fund, please visit http://www.eff.org/support/ and note in the Your Most Important Reason/comments field that your donation is meant for our Sklyarov fund. Katie Lucas Executive Assistant Electronic Frontier Foundation 415-436-9333 x104 www.eff.org From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 12:30:51 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]juridical procedures In-Reply-To: <20010718122144.P8506@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 12:21:44PM -0700 References: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk> <20010718120927.D22633@zork.net> <20010718122144.P8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010718123051.H22633@zork.net> begin The ASCII Floating Head of Seth David Schoen quotation: > I'm still trying to find out where the District Court keeps > prisoners: it seems that they have three different detention > locations, depending on which location hearings are to be held. > John Young said that Mr. Sklyarov was being taken to Santa Clara > County (i.e. San Jose), but the FBI agents told the press he was > being taken to San Francisco. San Francisco certainly makes more > sense to me if the prosecutors who are trying to prosecute him are > located here and the judge who issued the warrant is located here. However, many people use the name "San Francisco" to refer to the whole San Francisco Bay Area. It's like the way people from Bellevue say they're from Seattle, or people from Iowa never mention the city or town they're from. It provides enough information that a large number of people will get a feeling for the location. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 12:35:31 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]juridical procedures In-Reply-To: <20010718121654.O8506@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 12:16:54PM -0700 References: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk> <20010718121654.O8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010718123531.Q8506@zork.net> Seth David Schoen writes: > I believe his arraignment will be very soon, because there are strict > limits on how long people can be detained before they are charged with > something. I will call the San Francisco public defender today to see > if there is any information. Argh, the information I found before is the _California_ Public Defender in San Francisco. I can't find any phone number for the Federal Public Defender here (although I have a mailing address...). As always, the Federal and State Public Defenders are quite different people. If anybody knows the number for the Northern District of California's Federal Public Defender, please let me know. Other people have also suggested calling the Russian Embassy -- actually the "Consulate General of Russia in San Francisco": http://www.vldbros.com/consul/english/main.htm I have not called them. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From bill at scannell.org Wed Jul 18 12:33:52 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]www.boycottadobe.com is live! In-Reply-To: <20010718111414.G8506@zork.net> Message-ID: An Adobe disinvestment campaign has now been launched at http://www.boycottadobe.com . The only thing those bastards at Adobe understand is money. Let's show them our displeasure at the arrest of white hat hacker Dmitry Sklyarov. If nothing else, it will make other companies think twice about using the DMCA to turn security experts into felons. Thought should not be a crime. And so it begins... -Bill ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 12:42:19 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]juridical procedures In-Reply-To: <20010718123531.Q8506@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 12:35:31PM -0700 References: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk> <20010718121654.O8506@zork.net> <20010718123531.Q8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010718124219.I22633@zork.net> begin The ASCII Floating Head of Seth David Schoen quotation: > If anybody knows the number for the Northern District of California's > Federal Public Defender, please let me know. Other people have also > suggested calling the Russian Embassy -- actually the "Consulate General > of Russia in San Francisco": http://www.internships-usa.com/fedlaw/fed47.htm I found it through a google search. It's an internship advert, but it lists: Federal Public Defender Northern District of California Contact: Mr. Eric R. Krebs Chief Research and Writing Attorney Federal Public Defender Northern District of California 450 Golden Gate Avenue 19th Floor San Francisco, CA 94102 Phone: 415-436-7700 FAX: 415-436-7706 Perhaps the names have changed, but I'll wager the phone and address are still valid. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From pablos at kadrevis.com Wed Jul 18 12:42:32 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Sklyarov Defence Fund In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3765860.995460152@[10.0.1.220]> Just send PayPal to dmitry@shmoo.com or dmitry@boycottadobe.com and we'll make sure it gets to him. pablos. --On Wednesday, July 18, 2001 1:00 PM -0600 robyn wrote: > I wasn't clear. Mea culpa. > > What I wanted to know was whether Jeff had some "official" thoughts on > the topic before I began directly soliciting funds from defcon goers (who > appear eager to help as soon as we've got some place to point them). > > On a related topic, are any of the 2600 people on board yet? I'd be happy > to figure out how to set up a defense fund this afternoon, but I'd rather > rely on someone who's done it before. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From jim at media.mit.edu Wed Jul 18 12:53:13 2001 From: jim at media.mit.edu (Jim Youll) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Re: free-sklyarov digest, Vol 1 #3 - 21 msgs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200107181952.PAA24506@dns1.newmediagroup.com> I've just sent in my donation EFF and specifically noted that this matter was what prompted it. Ask your friends to get on board this issue now. You can turn the donation into a membership. To really help the cause, add $20 to your donation to cover materials and shipping if you want the hat and/or t-shirt. From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 12:53:41 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]juridical procedures In-Reply-To: <20010718124219.I22633@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 12:42:19PM -0700 References: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk> <20010718121654.O8506@zork.net> <20010718123531.Q8506@zork.net> <20010718124219.I22633@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010718125341.S8506@zork.net> Nick Moffitt writes: > Federal Public Defender Northern District of California Thanks, Nick. That was it. The Public Defender's office told me to call the U.S. Marshal Service and gave me a number. So I'm trying to get through there. Ramona Jackson, U.S. Marshal Service (415)436-7678 They would have custody of him as he is transferred to San Francisco. I will try to keep calling and get an update and post it here. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From eric at tully.com Wed Jul 18 12:59:34 2001 From: eric at tully.com (Eric Tully) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Being in Jail Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010718155934.00968680@208.231.13.113> In addition to giving to the Legal Defense Fund, is there anything that Dmitry needs in jail right now that we can help with? To hear support on the news? Letters of support? (I understand that we don't know where he's being held right now). Money? Has anyone like Kevin Mitnick ever said what they wanted or wished for while they were in jail? Especially during the first few weeks? I imagine he's scared. Or maybe he's confident. - Eric From andrea at gravitt.org Wed Jul 18 13:07:08 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]www.boycottadobe.com is live! Message-ID: <002e01c10fc5$431d6b60$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> Ok, expected it be slashdotted any minute now... I still can't see it, myself. Andrea From bill at scannell.org Wed Jul 18 13:11:26 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]www.boycottadobe.com is live! In-Reply-To: <002e01c10fc5$431d6b60$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> Message-ID: The IP for www.boycottadobe.com is 216.240.45.91 . Try therre until propogation is complete. Bill on 18.7.01 15:07, Andrea at andrea@gravitt.org wrote: > Ok, expected it be slashdotted any minute now... > > I still can't see it, myself. > > Andrea > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From caiaphas at operamail.com Wed Jul 18 13:23:10 2001 From: caiaphas at operamail.com (caiaphas@operamail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]irony? Message-ID: http://www.boycottadobe.com/ - nice site, but... Boycott Adobe Am I missing something? Caiaphas From pablos at kadrevis.com Wed Jul 18 13:24:54 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]juridical procedures In-Reply-To: <20010718125341.S8506@zork.net> References: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk> <20010718121654.O8506@zork.net> <20010718123531.Q8506@zork.net> <20010718124219.I22633@zork.net> <20010718125341.S8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <3918460.995462694@[10.0.1.220]> Seth, thanks for tracking down these numbers. I'm holding off on making calls so we don't bug them too much, but it is really important to get the following information: 1 Public Defender assigned to case, including contact information 2 Bail Hearing date/time/location. 3 Current location of Dmitry, and who can have access to him. Please post this information as soon as you get it. If you need help, just let me know. Thanks, pablos. --On Wednesday, July 18, 2001 12:53 PM -0700 Seth David Schoen wrote: > Nick Moffitt writes: > >> Federal Public Defender Northern District of California > > Thanks, Nick. That was it. > > The Public Defender's office told me to call the U.S. Marshal Service > and gave me a number. So I'm trying to get through there. > > Ramona Jackson, U.S. Marshal Service (415)436-7678 > > They would have custody of him as he is transferred to San Francisco. > I will try to keep calling and get an update and post it here. > > -- > Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study > when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for > perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have > leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From andrey_s at atlas.csd.net Wed Jul 18 13:25:50 2001 From: andrey_s at atlas.csd.net (Andrey Shapovalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Jennifer Granick Message-ID: Can she be involved in defending Dmitry? Has she been contacted about this? Andrey From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 13:26:55 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov][dmarti@zgp.org: Re: [CrackMonkey] Free Dimitry Skylarov!] Message-ID: <20010718132655.M22633@zork.net> Wouldn't it be interesting if Don Marti had posted the following? ----- Forwarded message from Don Marti ----- begin Mr. Bad quotation of Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 09:17:11AM -0700: > WHY picket the U.S. Attorney's office, when Adobe is right down in San > Jose? It's been pointed out that many reasonable people might want to download an "e-book" on one computer (say, a home machine on DSL) and read it on another (say, a laptop with no permanent net connection). And don't you think it would be nice to go down to the park and read a (n e-) book under a tree, and maybe talk about it with your friends and sip a cool beverage? If that park happens to be in downtown San Jose, and Dan Gillmor happens to walk by, that would be nice too. -- Don Marti "I've never sent or received a GIF in my life." http://zgp.org/~dmarti -- Bruce Schneier, Secrets and Lies, p. 246. dmarti@zgp.org Free the Web, burn all GIFs: http://burnallgifs.org/ _______________________________________________ CrackMonkey: Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks http://crackmonkey.org/mailman/listinfo/crackmonkey ----- End forwarded message ----- -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 13:28:57 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]Jennifer Granick In-Reply-To: ; from andrey_s@atlas.csd.net on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 02:25:50PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20010718132857.W8506@zork.net> Andrey Shapovalov writes: > Can she be involved in defending Dmitry? Has she been contacted about > this? She knew about it fully hours before I did: the way I learned about the situation was a forwarded message she sent to EFF to let them know about it. EFF has been talking to Jennifer Granick today about this case. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From jono at microshaft.org Wed Jul 18 12:48:47 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]IT SICKOUT - Read and pass along In-Reply-To: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 09:30:35AM -0700 References: <874rsambuj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010718124847.B51906@networkcommand.com> ----- Forwarded message ----- IT SICKOUT---IT SICKOUT---IT SICKOUT---IT SICKOUT READ AND PASS ALONG The government and corporate america are setting a very bad precedent with the arrest of Skylarov. We need to send a string message back to them. Currently, there are no organizations that represent IT workers and the people who keep company email, networks, and infrastructure running. The EFF is supporting the defense of Skylarov, but the DCMA is the real issue. It must be reviewed and abolished. This may be a bad time in the industry, but it was a time like this that other Unions formed in order to have some representation. Well, we need and deserve the same. So, the short term action is an IT SICKOUT. Just one day to protest the DMCA and the arrest of Skylarov. Long term action, create some professional guilds, unions, etc. to prevent these laws from changing our Freedoms. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/adhoc_it READ AND PASS ALONG IT SICKOUT---IT SICKOUT---IT SICKOUT---IT SICKOUT ----- End forwarded message ----- On 18-Jul-2001, Klepht wrote: > Hey, so, what's the plan? What are we going to do? > > For Bayareans, I'd suggest that we do a protest outside of Adobe > sometime early next week -- Monday or Tuesday. It's not like > Skylarov's locked up in a conference room in Adobe somewhere, but > they're the party with the most to lose in terms of publicity. > > Also, it might be cool to do some outreach to Russian groups, if they > exist and are interested (and there sure are a lot of Russians around > the Bay Area). _We_ tend to think of this as an information freedom > issue, but I think there's some international law issues, too. > > Other potential allies: > > Local 2600 Meetings > EFF (?) > > Oh, yeah: anyone banked "freeskylarov.org" yet? > > ~Klepht > > P.S. A "Free Skylarov" web page would probably get ./'d. > > P.P.S. Is Don Marti involved yet? > > -- > klepht@eleutheria.org > http://www.eleutheria.org/ > Free Skylarov! > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010718/66073ff2/attachment.pgp From noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to Wed Jul 18 14:05:54 2001 From: noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to (robyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]funding? Message-ID: Pablos, what's the going rate/turnaround time for a 2 or 3 color bumper sticker? The Boycott Adobe logo is *nice*. noise. From proclus at iname.com Wed Jul 18 13:08:59 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (Michael L. Love) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov]changes to XPDF Message-ID: <3B55ECDB.3060209@iname.com> We could have a version of XPDF that utilizes this code to view the eBook files with your computer. XPDF is GPL'd. http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/gnu-darwin/xpdf-0.91/ Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From pablos at kadrevis.com Wed Jul 18 14:11:53 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Bay Area Free Sklyarov Meeting Tonight In-Reply-To: <20010718111054.F8506@zork.net> References: <20010718111054.F8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <4087673.995465513@[10.0.1.220]> For those in the Bay Area who want to get together and discuss this case, Robyn Wagner and I will be hosting a meeting tonight at her house in the Hayes Valley district of San Francisco. This will be an informal meeting, and we'll try to have various people share their knowledge about how to help out in cases like this. We'll meet at 7:30 p.m. at 709 Buchanan, San Francisco. Those coming north on 101 should take the Fell street exit. Call 415.420.3806 if you need more info. Call 415.552.5771 if you gets lost. Everyone is encouraged to bring money to contribute to the cause, and we'll get it to the right folks. Thanks, pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to Wed Jul 18 14:16:23 2001 From: noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to (robyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Bay Area Free Sklyarov Meeting Tonight In-Reply-To: <4087673.995465513@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: Please RSVP if you can. -- noise. On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: > For those in the Bay Area who want to get together and discuss this case, > Robyn Wagner and I will be hosting a meeting tonight at her house in the > Hayes Valley district of San Francisco. This will be an informal meeting, > and we'll try to have various people share their knowledge about how to > help out in cases like this. > > We'll meet at 7:30 p.m. at 709 Buchanan, San Francisco. Those coming north > on 101 should take the Fell street exit. > > ddr=709+Buchanan&csz=San+Francisco&country=us&Get%A0Map=Get+Map> > > Call 415.420.3806 if you need more info. > Call 415.552.5771 if you gets lost. > > Everyone is encouraged to bring money to contribute to the cause, and we'll > get it to the right folks. > > Thanks, pablos. > -- > Pablos Kadrevis > pablos@kadrevis.com > 415.420.3806 > www.shmoo.com/~pablos > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 14:24:14 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Bay Area Free Sklyarov Meeting Tonight In-Reply-To: ; from noise@noisebox.cypherpunks.to on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 03:16:23PM -0600 References: <4087673.995465513@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <20010718142414.A22633@zork.net> begin robyn quotation: > Please RSVP if you can. [I plan to be there] > On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: > > We'll meet at 7:30 p.m. at 709 Buchanan, San Francisco. Those > > coming north on 101 should take the Fell street exit. Those coming on Muni or BART should get off at Powell or Montgomery St Stations and catch the 21 Hayes bus, which will take you to Hayes and Buchanan. Muni Metro lets you off at the Van Ness underground station, which is a level walk to 709 Buchanan with no nasty hills in between. The 5 fulton lets off at McAllister and Buchanan, which is a few blocks away, and the 22 Fillmore runs nearby as well. Here is a transit map of the general area: http://www.transitinfo.org/cgi-bin/muni/map/system?MODE=ZOOM&Map.x=400&Map.y=264&ZOOM=1&XPART=1.5&YPART=1 Note Van Ness Station on the right. the diagonal street is Market. You can see Buchanan labeled right about where the final E in "HAIGHT FILLMORE" is. you can zoom out for greater context. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 14:28:59 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Still no contact with Marshals or Consulate Message-ID: <20010718142859.E8506@zork.net> I have still not gotten through to Ramona Jackson at the U.S. Marshal Service. I have also been trying the Russian Consul General in San Francisco at (415)928-6878. I got through earlier to their "Passport/Legal Information" line (wondering if legal information included this sort of situation) and spoke to a man who said that that division _did not_ have any information about Russian citizens accused of crimes in the United States. Instead, he told me to call the main Consulate number, (415)928-6878, and ask for a Mr. Nebiwayev (phonetic). So I've been trying with no luck. People on this list could try reaching Mr. Nebiwayev -- but if you do reach him, please let this list know, so that other people won't duplicate your effort. I wouldn't recommend having a lot of people trying the Marshal Service, because they are probably less sympathetic to Mr. Sklyarov's situation. :-) I believe people at EFF are also still trying to check in with them. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From branden at deadbeast.net Wed Jul 18 14:23:30 2001 From: branden at deadbeast.net (Branden Robinson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov covered on NPR's All Things Considered today Message-ID: <20010718162330.A22353@deadbeast.net> Sorry if something's already been pasted about this. I checked the archives but I also just subscribed. As I write this, NPR's All Things Considered news program is running a story on Sklyarov. ATC generally runs their stories more than once during their time block (2.5 hours here), so those of you with interest may want to tune in. -- G. Branden Robinson | Psychology is really biology. Debian GNU/Linux | Biology is really chemistry. branden@deadbeast.net | Chemistry is really physics. http://www.deadbeast.net/~branden/ | Physics is really math. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010718/55805717/attachment.pgp From noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to Wed Jul 18 14:36:55 2001 From: noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to (robyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov covered on NPR's All Things Considered today In-Reply-To: <20010718162330.A22353@deadbeast.net> Message-ID: Should be available on the web after 10p ET. On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Branden Robinson wrote: > Sorry if something's already been pasted about this. I checked the > archives but I also just subscribed. > > As I write this, NPR's All Things Considered news program is running a > story on Sklyarov. > > ATC generally runs their stories more than once during their time block > (2.5 hours here), so those of you with interest may want to tune in. > > From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 14:35:58 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Venue? Message-ID: <20010718143558.H8506@zork.net> The U.S. Attorney's press release came from the USAO in San Francisco but the complaint was filed in San Jose. Does arraignment have to be in the particular venue where the complaint was filed, or could it be in any venue in the District? -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to Wed Jul 18 14:44:52 2001 From: noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to (robyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Venue? In-Reply-To: <20010718143558.H8506@zork.net> Message-ID: Just talked to an ex-AUSA. He will most likely be before a San Jose judge. The location of the press release is consistent with the fact that San Francisco is the main NDCA office, and would generally be in charge of releasing statements for the whole district. On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Seth David Schoen wrote: > The U.S. Attorney's press release came from the USAO in San Francisco > but the complaint was filed in San Jose. Does arraignment have to be > in the particular venue where the complaint was filed, or could it be > in any venue in the District? From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 14:48:03 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov still in Las Vegas Message-ID: <20010718144803.J8506@zork.net> Lee Tien at EFF says that another EFF staff member "has confirmed that Dmitry has not been transferred to California yet" and is still detained in Las Vegas. He says that it is important to find local (Bay Area) people who could vouch for Sklyarov -- to counter the flight risk problem at the bail hearing. If anyone has contacts in the local Russian community or knows of people in California with a connection to Sklyarov, please contact Lee Tien at EFF. Bail for foreign nationals is apparently quite difficult and connections in the local area are important. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 15:02:52 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Venue? In-Reply-To: ; from noise@noisebox.cypherpunks.to on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 03:44:52PM -0600 References: <20010718143558.H8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010718150252.K8506@zork.net> robyn writes: > Just talked to an ex-AUSA. > > He will most likely be before a San Jose judge. The location of the press > release is consistent with the fact that San Francisco is the main NDCA > office, and would generally be in charge of releasing statements for the > whole district. Is it appropriate to call the Clerk in the District Court in San Jose tomorrow morning? Would the Clerk consider questions about scheduled arraignments normal, or would he or she think that I'm lazy and ought to have a damned PACER account? By the way, Adobe's headquarters are in San Jose: http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/contact.html Adobe Systems Incorporated 345 Park Avenue San Jose, California 95110-2704 USA Tel: 408-536-6000 Fax: 408-537-6000 (consistent with the information in "whois adobe.com") The San Jose venue for the Northern District: http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/CourtInfo.nsf/6f311f8841e7da2488256405006827f0/f3b46c67b334132e88256682007f6ba9?OpenDocument 280 South 1st Street San Jose, CA 95113 Phone: 408-535-5364 PLEASE DO NOT HARASS ADOBE ON THE TELEPHONE OR SEND THEM ANY OTHER KIND OF HARASSING OR THREATENING COMMUNICATION! (The same goes for the U.S. Marshal Service, the U.S. Attorney's Office, and the U.S. District Court.) Of course, it is OK to send criticism to Adobe and to the U.S. Attorney. Let your criticism be civil and relevant. When people sent threats to the MPAA -- following the MPAA's reprehensible prosecution of 2600 Enterprises -- the MPAA actually quoted these in court and used them to hurt the defendants' case! -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 15:04:14 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [free-sklyarov]juridical procedures In-Reply-To: <20010718175334.A30863@cluebot.com>; from lists@politechbot.com on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 05:53:35PM -0400 References: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk> <20010718121654.O8506@zork.net> <20010718175334.A30863@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010718150414.L8506@zork.net> Declan McCullagh writes: > Minor point: There has been at least one other DMCA criminal case. > Seth, you should reread my articles. :) Is that the case in Florida about satellite TV? I've been reading _so many_ articles about the Sklyarov case today -- I apologize for missing yours. :-) -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to Wed Jul 18 15:07:10 2001 From: noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to (robyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Venue? In-Reply-To: <20010718150252.K8506@zork.net> Message-ID: I have a PACER account. The password should be at home. On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Seth David Schoen wrote: > Is it appropriate to call the Clerk in the District Court in San Jose > tomorrow morning? > > Would the Clerk consider questions about scheduled arraignments > normal, or would he or she think that I'm lazy and ought to have a > damned PACER account? > > By the way, Adobe's headquarters are in San Jose: > > http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/contact.html > > Adobe Systems Incorporated > 345 Park Avenue > San Jose, California 95110-2704 > USA > > Tel: 408-536-6000 > Fax: 408-537-6000 > > (consistent with the information in "whois adobe.com") > > The San Jose venue for the Northern District: > > http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/CourtInfo.nsf/6f311f8841e7da2488256405006827f0/f3b46c67b334132e88256682007f6ba9?OpenDocument > > 280 South 1st Street > San Jose, CA 95113 > > Phone: > 408-535-5364 > > PLEASE DO NOT HARASS ADOBE ON THE TELEPHONE OR SEND THEM ANY OTHER > KIND OF HARASSING OR THREATENING COMMUNICATION! (The same goes for > the U.S. Marshal Service, the U.S. Attorney's Office, and the U.S. > District Court.) Of course, it is OK to send criticism to Adobe and > to the U.S. Attorney. Let your criticism be civil and relevant. > > When people sent threats to the MPAA -- following the MPAA's > reprehensible prosecution of 2600 Enterprises -- the MPAA actually > quoted these in court and used them to hurt the defendants' case! From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 15:11:50 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov still in Las Vegas In-Reply-To: <20010718144803.J8506@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 02:48:03PM -0700 References: <20010718144803.J8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010718151150.C22633@zork.net> begin The ASCII Floating Head of Seth David Schoen quotation: > He says that it is important to find local (Bay Area) people who > could vouch for Sklyarov -- to counter the flight risk problem at > the bail hearing. If anyone has contacts in the local Russian > community or knows of people in California with a connection to > Sklyarov, please contact Lee Tien at EFF. I have lost touch, but I used to have some contact with the Russian community in San Francisco. If pushed, I could call up some people I used to know and try to figure out where to look. These folks are probably kind of mad that I lost touch, though. It should be helpful to find out Dimitry's father's name. Russians refer to people with a patronymic called "ochestvo" (pronounced OH-chest-vuh). Family names are usually reserved for official communications and public figures, and many people won't know the family name of their friends and neighbors. At any rate, it makes it easier to refer to him in conversation. Also, some people may know him as "Dima", which is a nickname for Dimitry. > Bail for foreign nationals is apparently quite difficult and > connections in the local area are important. It may be easier to try and look in the other direction: find out from Dimitry's friends and family in Russia the names of anyone in the US who could vouch for him. Then ask those people if they know anyone in the San Francisco Bay Area. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From dmarti at zgp.org Wed Jul 18 15:12:17 2001 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Bay Area Free Sklyarov Meeting Tonight In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010718151217.A14030@zgp.org> begin robyn quotation of Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 03:16:23PM -0600: > Please RSVP if you can. I'm planning to come. My cell phone number is 650-743-8035. -- Don Marti "I've never sent or received a GIF in my life." http://zgp.org/~dmarti -- Bruce Schneier, Secrets and Lies, p. 246. dmarti@zgp.org Free the Web, burn all GIFs: http://burnallgifs.org/ From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 15:14:50 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] My messages Message-ID: <20010718151449.D22633@zork.net> My apologies if some of you haven't been able to read my replies. If you are using Microsoft Outlook (express or otherwise) without the aid of an exchange server, you will need to "view source" on the attachments you see. The reason this occurs is that outlook sees the word "begin" in my mails and assumes that what follows is a uuencoded file attachment. It's a fault on the part of Microsoft Outlook, and I am not in fact sending any attachments. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to Wed Jul 18 15:18:39 2001 From: noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to (robyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Venue? In-Reply-To: <20010718150252.K8506@zork.net> Message-ID: Without access to PACER right now, I manually searched the calendars of each of the San Jose NDCA judges. Nothing yet. http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/calendar.nsf/Calendars?OpenView From pablos at kadrevis.com Wed Jul 18 15:20:50 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] BoycottAdobe Logo In-Reply-To: <20010718111054.F8506@zork.net> References: <20010718111054.F8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <4336001.995469650@[10.0.1.220]> For all the EFF folks, I've attached a BoycottAdobe logo that can be used wherever you like. The EFF logo and link is now on the BoycottAdobe site. Hell, I even used PNG to keep everybody happy. Let me know if you need a GIF! pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: BoycottAdobeLogoWhite.png Type: image/png Size: 25566 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010718/ddd20d72/BoycottAdobeLogoWhite.png From owlswan at eff.org Wed Jul 18 15:28:38 2001 From: owlswan at eff.org (Henry Schwan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Still no contact with Marshals or Consulate In-Reply-To: <20010718142859.E8506@zork.net> Message-ID: the marshal service will undoubtedly give no information as they are deadly paranoid. I have been trying to find out who Alex Katalov in Las Vegas has talked to at the Consulate so that I do not overlap. I sent contact information to the Federal Public Defender in LV to be passed on to the PD in the venue where he is arraigned. It would be important to find him a sponsor in the Russian community so that it is more possible for him to have bail rather than rot in jail. We will probably not get much information about his when till he is here. as I said the marshals service is very paranoid that he might be waylaid so they give information only on need to know basis. Clerks, if the knew anything at all, would be embargoed from giving information. Also, since the marshals rarely move people alone, we don't know who he will be traveling with who might be a much greater security risk. We should keep the pressure up to get information though. I have been in touch with the US Attorney in San Jose he didn't know anything yet, but says I can stay in touch which I will be daily. Any information that people glean, I would appreciate, both so I can keep a central record of it and so that I do not duplicate efforts. thanks. On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Seth David Schoen wrote: > I have still not gotten through to Ramona Jackson at the U.S. Marshal > Service. > > I have also been trying the Russian Consul General in San Francisco > at (415)928-6878. I got through earlier to their "Passport/Legal > Information" line (wondering if legal information included this sort > of situation) and spoke to a man who said that that division _did not_ > have any information about Russian citizens accused of crimes in the > United States. > > Instead, he told me to call the main Consulate number, (415)928-6878, > and ask for a Mr. Nebiwayev (phonetic). So I've been trying with no > luck. > > People on this list could try reaching Mr. Nebiwayev -- but if you do > reach him, please let this list know, so that other people won't > duplicate your effort. > > I wouldn't recommend having a lot of people trying the Marshal Service, > because they are probably less sympathetic to Mr. Sklyarov's > situation. :-) I believe people at EFF are also still trying to check > in with them. > > -- Regards, Henry Schwan Paralegal Electronic Frontier Foundation (415)436-9333 x114 (415)436-9333 (fax) owlswan@eff.org From jennifer at granick.com Wed Jul 18 15:20:15 2001 From: jennifer at granick.com (Jennifer S. Granick) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [free-sklyarov]juridical procedures In-Reply-To: <20010718150414.L8506@zork.net> References: <3B55DCB6.D7EDAB23@sheffield.ac.uk> <20010718121654.O8506@zork.net> <20010718175334.A30863@cluebot.com> <20010718150414.L8506@zork.net> Message-ID: At 3:04 PM -0700 7/18/01, Seth David Schoen wrote: >Declan McCullagh writes: > >> Minor point: There has been at least one other DMCA criminal case. >> Seth, you should reread my articles. :) > >Is that the case in Florida about satellite TV? > >I've been reading _so many_ articles about the Sklyarov case today -- I >apologize for missing yours. :-) > >-- >Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I >Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will >down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov That lawyer (Dario Diaz) says that his client was never charged, though, right? -- Jennifer Stisa Granick Stanford Law School Center for Internet and Society 559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, California 94305 (650) 724-0014 (650) 723-8440 fax jennifer@granick.com From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 18 15:31:34 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Venue? In-Reply-To: ; from noise@noisebox.cypherpunks.to on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 04:18:39PM -0600 References: <20010718150252.K8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010718153134.R8506@zork.net> robyn writes: > Without access to PACER right now, I manually searched the calendars of > each of the San Jose NDCA judges. Nothing yet. Thanks, that's useful. Can U.S. Magistrate Judges hold arraignment or bail hearings? What kinds of hearings can they hold, and what kinds of orders can they issue, in criminal cases? -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From mail at krel.org Wed Jul 18 15:45:51 2001 From: mail at krel.org (Ilya) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] exchange References: <20010718150252.K8506@zork.net> <20010718153134.R8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <008001c10fdb$6589f900$0100a8c0@ilya> Was the american spy Tobin released? Russia could exchange that drug seller for Sklyrov..... From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 16:02:48 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov covered on NPR's All Things Considered today In-Reply-To: <20010718162330.A22353@deadbeast.net>; from branden@deadbeast.net on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 04:23:30PM -0500 References: <20010718162330.A22353@deadbeast.net> Message-ID: <20010718160248.A7451@zork.net> Begin Branden Robinson quotation: > As I write this, NPR's All Things Considered news program is running a > story on Sklyarov. I'm listening from San Francisco on KALW (91.7 FM). They just announced it on the intro to the program, and should play it within the hour. If you're in the Bay Area, you shuld be able to pick it up. They also talk about the FBI misplacing computers and weapons, but that's not the story on Sklyarov. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From pablos at kadrevis.com Wed Jul 18 16:13:56 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boycott Adobe Online Store In-Reply-To: <20010718111054.F8506@zork.net> References: <20010718111054.F8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> We'll teach those Adobe Bastards to take on an army of unemployed dot commers with too much time on their hands... Check out the Boycott Adobe Merchandise pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 16:17:14 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [free-sklyarov]irony? In-Reply-To: ; from caiaphas@operamail.com on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 02:08:10AM +0545 References: Message-ID: <20010718161713.C7451@zork.net> Begin caiaphas@operamail.com quotation: > http://www.boycottadobe.com/ - nice site, but... > > > Boycott Adobe > > > Am I missing something? I see it too. Is this a joke? -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From eric at mostly.harmless.org Wed Jul 18 16:21:29 2001 From: eric at mostly.harmless.org (Eric Rachner) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF Membership Receipt (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:12:46 -0700 From: membership@eff.org To: eric@harmless.org Subject: EFF Membership Receipt Thank you very much for taking the time to fill out our membership application. This e-mail may serve as your receipt for your tax deductible donation to the Electronic Frontier Foundation. On 07/18/2001 you contributed $65 to the Electronic Frontier Foundation for a one year membership with the organization. Thank you. Our work is dependent upon your continued support. From proclus at iname.com Wed Jul 18 15:26:50 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [free-sklyarov]irony? In-Reply-To: <20010718161713.C7451@zork.net> Message-ID: <200107182226.SAA11523@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> GNU-Darwin is covering the boycott with no hypocrisy, but hypocrites are welcome... Just not Adobe hypocrites. http://gnu-darwin.sourceforge.net/news.html Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 16:30:26 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] irony? In-Reply-To: <200107182226.SAA11523@pico.mbg.cornell.edu>; from proclus@iname.com on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 06:26:50PM -0400 References: <20010718161713.C7451@zork.net> <200107182226.SAA11523@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <20010718163026.E7451@zork.net> Begin proclus@iname.com quotation: > GNU-Darwin is covering the boycott with no hypocrisy, but hypocrites > are welcome... Just not Adobe hypocrites. With respect, we are not their enemies; we're their customers. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From rabbi at quickie.net Wed Jul 18 16:30:58 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: Has anyone moved forward on the idea to organize a demonstration outside the Adobe building in San Jose? -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From proclus at iname.com Wed Jul 18 15:48:05 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (Michael L. Love) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] irony? References: <20010718161713.C7451@zork.net> <200107182226.SAA11523@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> <20010718163026.E7451@zork.net> Message-ID: <3B561225.5060603@iname.com> Nick Moffitt wrote: > Begin proclus@iname.com quotation: > >>GNU-Darwin is covering the boycott with no hypocrisy, but hypocrites >>are welcome... Just not Adobe hypocrites. >> > > With respect, we are not their enemies; we're their customers. > > No longer. Regards, proclus -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 16:44:09 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: ; from rabbi@quickie.net on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 04:30:58PM -0700 References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> Begin Len Sassaman quotation: > Has anyone moved forward on the idea to organize a demonstration > outside the Adobe building in San Jose? What would we demonstrate? After the DeCSS protest outside of the Sony Metreon in San Francisco, I have become soured on the notion of protests. They seem to me to be public declarations of impotence. We want sympathy and support, not pity. The Windows Refund Day demonstration was a nice one, since we came with a list of demands and a story that showed we were following Microsoft's own EULA. It was very man-bites-dog. What could we do like that in this case? They key here is that the law is unfortunately clear. What we want to prove to the world is that the law is unjust and should be rescinded or repealed or whatever it is that you call it when you kill a bad law. To avoid a whiney picket march, we should do something clever for the press to write about. I haven't got any ideas off the top of my head, but here are a few musings: 1) Write a flimsy content obfuscation system, and then have someone break it. Call the FBI. (make sure the damage claimed exceeds their magic number! Is it still $5,000?) 2) VS LBH PNA ERNQ GUVF, LBH NER VA IVBYNGVBA BS GUR QZPN. Hold a public demonstration illustrating some of the principles that Dimitry mentioned in his talk. Describe the method for decrypting e-books in plain english. 3) Deliver Dimitry's original DEFCON talk outside of Adobe. Can anyone think of any more? -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From ash at toocan.com Wed Jul 18 16:48:02 2001 From: ash at toocan.com (ash) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Bayarea Meeting - Dmitry Sklyarov Message-ID: hi robyn, im rsvp ing the dmitry meeting tonight. -- ashten remwa****************ash@toocan.com |.|.....(_)..|.\..|.|..|.|..|.|..\.\..././ |.|.....|.|..|..\.|.|..|.|..|.|...\.\././ |.|.....|.|..|...\|.|..|.|..|.|..../._.\ |.|___..|.|..|.|\...|..|.|__|.|..././.\.\ |_____).|_| .|_|.\__|..|______|../_/...\_\ http://www.toocan.com/~ash From eliab at pbgnw.com Wed Jul 18 16:51:00 2001 From: eliab at pbgnw.com (Eliab) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> Message-ID: I can already see the slide presentation broadcast ont the side of the building. anybody up for writing and distributing a small "ROT14" program? easy to crack, just shift 14. e > 1) Write a flimsy content obfuscation system, and then have someone > break it. Call the FBI. (make sure the damage claimed > exceeds their magic number! Is it still $5,000?) > 2) VS LBH PNA ERNQ GUVF, LBH NER VA IVBYNGVBA BS GUR QZPN. Hold a > public demonstration illustrating some of the principles that > Dimitry mentioned in his talk. Describe the method for > decrypting e-books in plain english. > 3) Deliver Dimitry's original DEFCON talk outside of Adobe. From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 18 16:50:42 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> Message-ID: <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt writes: NM> What would we demonstrate? NM> After the DeCSS protest outside of the Sony Metreon in NM> San Francisco, I have become soured on the notion of protests. So, don't come. But please stop trying to convince everyone that protests don't work. Try telling the NAACP, Act Up!, the UFW and countless other organizations that street protests don't work. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 18 16:58:14 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87snft23jd.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "LS" == Len Sassaman writes: LS> Has anyone moved forward on the idea to organize a LS> demonstration outside the Adobe building in San Jose? I think this sounds great. Perhaps it could be discussed at the face-to-face meeting tonight? I'm not going to be able to attend, but I'd really love to get a report. I think realistically Monday or Tuesday will be the earliest point at which a rally could be organized. IIRC from Burn All GIFs, Don had to register with Brisbane's finest before the march. So, we probably would have to do that. ~Klepht P.S. Len, do you know of any way to make an announcement to Bay Area cypherpunks? Say, for meetingpunks, that would broadcast the info? -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 16:58:24 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 04:50:42PM -0700 References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010718165824.I7451@zork.net> Begin Klepht quotation: > >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt writes: > NM> What would we demonstrate? > > NM> After the DeCSS protest outside of the Sony Metreon in > NM> San Francisco, I have become soured on the notion of protests. > > So, don't come. But please stop trying to convince everyone that > protests don't work. Try telling the NAACP, Act Up!, the UFW and > countless other organizations that street protests don't work. You removed the constructive portion of my e-mail when replying to it. Why? I am trying to answer the question in that quotation, not bang on the assertion. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 16:59:57 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: ; from eliab@pbgnw.com on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 04:51:00PM -0700 References: <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010718165957.J7451@zork.net> Begin Eliab quotation: > I can already see the slide presentation broadcast ont the side of the > building. Haha. Cute, but would probably require permission. > anybody up for writing and distributing a small "ROT14" program? > easy to crack, just shift 14. Cracking rot14 would be done by rotating by 12. Most Unixes come with a "caesar" program in /usr/games that does this for you. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From jeme at brelin.net Wed Jul 18 17:01:14 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Eliab wrote: > anybody up for writing and distributing a small "ROT14" program? > easy to crack, just shift 14. #!/bin/sh tr abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ opqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMN How's that? J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From dredd at megacity.org Wed Jul 18 17:01:03 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: At 4:50 PM -0700 7/18/01, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt writes: > > NM> What would we demonstrate? > > NM> After the DeCSS protest outside of the Sony Metreon in > NM> San Francisco, I have become soured on the notion of protests. > >So, don't come. But please stop trying to convince everyone that >protests don't work. Try telling the NAACP, Act Up!, the UFW and >countless other organizations that street protests don't work. > Street protests work, where the "masses" can understand easily and relate to the issue involved. I don't have to "Be Gay" to understand gay rights activists. I don't have to be black to understand that "Yeah, we oppressed people in the past, and some people still do it today". DMCA violations are something the people "don't understand", by and large. Around HERE, in our cloistered little high tech environs, there may be a larger-than-normal understanding, but the masses don't understand it all. They DON'T work, as evidenced by WTO protests, if the masses DON'T understand. Was there any huge uproar from the masses after the WTO protests? Did the people rise up and scream "never again!" .. No. They bitched about the traffic problems it caused. D -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From wild at eff.org Wed Jul 18 17:02:43 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF Calling Free Sklyarov Protest In-Reply-To: References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010718164253.02ceece0@pop3.norton.antivirus> The Electronic Frontier Foundation has decided to call for a protest to Free Sklyarov. We are debating internally some of the details, such as specific messages, location, date/time, etc., so that we can have the most effective protest possible. We would like to invite members of the free-sklyarov list to discuss ideas with us about how to make this action a successful collaborative effort. We will participate in this email list and also have set up a way for folks to let EFF know about tips, suggestions, and media coverage related to the case at: help-sklyarov@eff.org Keep up the great discussions! Free Sklyarov, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 04:30 PM 7/18/2001 -0700, Len Sassaman wrote: >Has anyone moved forward on the idea to organize a demonstration outside >the Adobe building in San Jose? > >-- > >Len Sassaman > >Security Architect | >Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." > | >http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From andrea at gravitt.org Wed Jul 18 17:02:52 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boycott Adobe Online Store Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Jul 2001 19:13, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: >We'll teach those Adobe Bastards to take on an army of unemployed dot >commers with too much time on their hands... Well, that was fast! And I called my SO to see if he was up for applying his talents to subvert the force that keeps his business alive, but he didn't have anybody handy who can do bumperstickers -- his screen printer doesn't have the equipment. Too bad. I have this feeling that Copyleft may already be on it, however... Andrea ------------------------------------------------------- feorlen@acm.org From eliab at spack.org Wed Jul 18 17:03:19 2001 From: eliab at spack.org (Eliab) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > #!/bin/sh > tr abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ >opqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMN see that wasn't too hard From rabbi at quickie.net Wed Jul 18 17:03:38 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <87snft23jd.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: On 18 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > P.S. Len, do you know of any way to make an announcement to Bay Area > cypherpunks? Say, for meetingpunks, that would broadcast the info? meetingpunks doesn't have that great a circulation, so I would send it to cypherpunks@ssz.com as well as the meetingpunks list. -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From robin at eff.org Wed Jul 18 17:04:59 2001 From: robin at eff.org (Robin Gross) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] meeting tonight In-Reply-To: References: <20010718150252.K8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010718170333.00a42980@pop3.norton.antivirus> Hello there, Robyn I'll be at the meeting tonight. Thanks for hosting it! Best, Robin At 04:18 PM 7/18/2001 -0600, robyn wrote: >Without access to PACER right now, I manually searched the calendars of >each of the San Jose NDCA judges. Nothing yet. > >http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/calendar.nsf/Calendars?OpenView > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Robin D. Gross - Cyberspace Attorney @ Law Electronic Frontier Foundation 454 Shotwell Street, San Francisco, CA 94110 e: robin@eff.org w: http://www.eff.org p: 415.863.5459 f: 415.436.9993 http://www.eff.org/cafe http://www.eff.org/Intellectual_property/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From proclus at iname.com Wed Jul 18 16:16:23 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (Michael L. Love) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? References: Message-ID: <3B5618C7.6040806@iname.com> Jeme A Brelin wrote: > On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Eliab wrote: > >>anybody up for writing and distributing a small "ROT14" program? >>easy to crack, just shift 14. >> > > #!/bin/sh > tr abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ opqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMN > > > How's that? > J. > Thanks! It's online. http://gnu-darwin.sourceforge.net/derot14.txt Regards, proclus -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From rabbi at quickie.net Wed Jul 18 17:13:22 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Nick Moffitt wrote: > 1) Write a flimsy content obfuscation system, and then have someone > break it. Call the FBI. (make sure the damage claimed > exceeds their magic number! Is it still $5,000?) Something like this has been tried before, right? That pig-Latin Napster thing? It seemed contrived. In this case, I think that the general public would not understand that gesture at all. > 2) VS LBH PNA ERNQ GUVF, LBH NER VA IVBYNGVBA BS GUR QZPN. Hold a Yeah, I'm a criminal. Some of the people on this list can read that by sight, too. > public demonstration illustrating some of the principles that > Dimitry mentioned in his talk. Describe the method for > decrypting e-books in plain english. That's a good suggestion. > 3) Deliver Dimitry's original DEFCON talk outside of Adobe. This would be excellent. -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From bill at scannell.org Wed Jul 18 17:30:32 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think that we should take a page from the protests that brought down communism and stage a 'raid' on Adobe for selling broken software. Lots of people wearing yellow-on-blue DMCA raid jackets accompanied by journalists. Now that's a story. ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From warthawg at ecpi.com Wed Jul 18 17:09:03 2001 From: warthawg at ecpi.com (Joe Barr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF Calling Free Sklyarov Protest In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010718164253.02ceece0@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <5.1.0.14.0.20010718164253.02ceece0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20010718190903.16f06399.warthawg@ecpi.com> The media is watching. On Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:02:43 -0700 Will Doherty wrote: > The Electronic Frontier Foundation has decided to call for a > protest to Free Sklyarov. We are debating internally some > of the details, such as specific messages, location, date/time, > etc., so that we can have the most effective protest possible. > > We would like to invite members of the free-sklyarov list > to discuss ideas with us about how to make this action a > successful collaborative effort. > > We will participate in this email list and also have set > up a way for folks to let EFF know about tips, suggestions, > and media coverage related to the case at: > > help-sklyarov@eff.org > > Keep up the great discussions! > > Free Sklyarov, > > Will Doherty > Online Activist / Media Relations > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > Web http://www.eff.org > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > ------- > > At 04:30 PM 7/18/2001 -0700, Len Sassaman wrote: > >Has anyone moved forward on the idea to organize a demonstration outside > >the Adobe building in San Jose? > > > >-- > > > >Len Sassaman > > > >Security Architect | > >Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." > > | > >http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- #====================================================# # Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! Free Sklyarov! # #====================================================# From bill at scannell.org Wed Jul 18 17:34:03 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketing Adobe? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Another idea would be to have a DMCA chain gang clean the public road spaces around Adobe. We could sing 30's songs with new lyrics...think 'Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?' Great visuals. ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From free-sklyarov at happycool.com Wed Jul 18 17:31:37 2001 From: free-sklyarov at happycool.com (Victor Piterbarg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF Calling Free Sklyarov Protest In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010718164253.02ceece0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: How quickly do things like this usually get organized? I live in Los Angeles, but would love to come out and show support. Could this be on a weekend? Thanks. -Victor -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Will Doherty Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 5:03 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Cc: Len Sassaman; Pablos Kadrevis; wild@eff.org Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF Calling Free Sklyarov Protest The Electronic Frontier Foundation has decided to call for a protest to Free Sklyarov. We are debating internally some of the details, such as specific messages, location, date/time, etc., so that we can have the most effective protest possible. We would like to invite members of the free-sklyarov list to discuss ideas with us about how to make this action a successful collaborative effort. We will participate in this email list and also have set up a way for folks to let EFF know about tips, suggestions, and media coverage related to the case at: help-sklyarov@eff.org Keep up the great discussions! Free Sklyarov, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 04:30 PM 7/18/2001 -0700, Len Sassaman wrote: >Has anyone moved forward on the idea to organize a demonstration outside >the Adobe building in San Jose? > >-- > >Len Sassaman > >Security Architect | >Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." > | >http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From bwilson at gene.COM Wed Jul 18 17:34:59 2001 From: bwilson at gene.COM (Brian Wilson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] meeting tonight In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010718170333.00a42980@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <20010718150252.K8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010718173045.04f9b538@dna-mail1.gene.com> I think a good number of us trying to get ahold of various executives by telephone asking why Kevin Nathanson eBooks Group Products Manager at Adobe thought the FBI should protect their feeble security. The DMCA is not a license to be a shitty programmer. Brian From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 18 17:37:27 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <20010718165824.I7451@zork.net> References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010718165824.I7451@zork.net> Message-ID: <87ofqhpxdk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt writes: NM> You removed the constructive portion of my e-mail when NM> replying to it. Why? NM> I am trying to answer the question in that quotation, not bang NM> on the assertion. Okey doke. I'm going to assume that now that your position is clear, you'll not participate, nor stand in the way of, a demonstration. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 18 17:41:09 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <87ofqhpxdk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 05:37:27PM -0700 References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010718165824.I7451@zork.net> <87ofqhpxdk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010718174109.N7451@zork.net> Begin Klepht quotation: > Okey doke. I'm going to assume that now that your position is clear, > you'll not participate, nor stand in the way of, a demonstration. I think you're confused. I am in favor of a demonstration. I am against a protest. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From derekfox at yahoo.com Wed Jul 18 18:04:56 2001 From: derekfox at yahoo.com (Derek Fox) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010719010456.59574.qmail@web9304.mail.yahoo.com> Quoth Nick Moffitt: > What would we demonstrate? Adobe is full of liberal-minded programmers who should be on our side. I like the idea of a protest outside the Adobe building because it will alert these good people to what their employer is doing (to a fellow programmer) in their name. It raises the prospect of a little internal rebellion, which would have to be a good thing. Moreover, as far as media interest goes, a protest along these lines would be a novelty, I think... --Derek (Yes I realize it is in the Feds' hands now. Still -- under the guiding principles of boycottadobe.com -- turning up the heat on Adobe can only help.) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 18 18:23:17 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <20010719010456.59574.qmail@web9304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010719010456.59574.qmail@web9304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <878zhlpv96.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "DF" == Derek Fox writes: DF> (Yes I realize it is in the Feds' hands now. Still -- under DF> the guiding principles of boycottadobe.com -- turning up the DF> heat on Adobe can only help.) Would it be possible for them to drop their complaint? If so, would that mean that the Feds would drop the case? If so, I'd say that there'd be some reasonable demands, like: 1) Drop complaint against Sklyarov immediately. 2) Work with community to allow fair use in the E-book format. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From eric at mostly.harmless.org Wed Jul 18 18:29:42 2001 From: eric at mostly.harmless.org (Eric Rachner) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <20010719010456.59574.qmail@web9304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > It raises the prospect of a little internal rebellion, > which would have to be a good thing. Moreover, as far > as media interest goes, a protest along these lines > would be a novelty, I think... With that in mind, be thoughtful when phrasing anti-Adobe sentiments. Be careful to criticize Adobe and its officers without offending those who just work there. Generalizing them all as being shitty programmers and snake-oil salesmen will only alienate those who might be uncomfortable with the DMCA. - Eric From proclus at iname.com Wed Jul 18 17:34:39 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? Message-ID: <200107190034.UAA11589@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> GNU-Darwin is providing free software alternatives to Adobe software in support of the boycott. We have the tools to build an eBook file reader for all computers. We are running a news story about it, where there will be a link to http://www.boycottadobe.com/ in minutes. http://gnu-darwin.sourceforge.net/news.html It would be great if you could give us a reciprocal link ;-} Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From proclus at iname.com Wed Jul 18 17:35:42 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (Michael L. Love) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? Message-ID: <3B562B5E.6020008@iname.com> GNU-Darwin is providing free software alternatives to Adobe software in support of the boycott. We have the tools to build an eBook file reader for all computers. We are running a news story about it, where there will be a link to http://www.boycottadobe.com/ in minutes. http://gnu-darwin.sourceforge.net/news.html It would be great if you could give us a reciprocal link ;-} Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From adric at adric.net Wed Jul 18 19:45:05 2001 From: adric at adric.net (adric) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] anybody working on a flyer? Message-ID: Hi y'all I can't make it to California for the festivities, so I'm trying to raise local awareness by pestering people on the web and by creating a flyer I can distribute to cybercafes and user groups around these parts. I've gotten started on a flyer (handbill?), but I'd appreciate some help, or pointers to flyers already online. my site: http://www.adric.net/flyer/ weblog entry about Dmitry: http://www.livejournal.com/~adric/ TIA and good luck with the demonstration at Adobe! From jono at microshaft.org Wed Jul 18 20:09:42 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [adhoc_it_union] ISSUES to address Message-ID: <20010718200942.C53896@networkcommand.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 03:06:37 -0000 Reply-To: adhoc_it_union@yahoogroups.com Subject: [adhoc_it_union] ISSUES Here is a short list of issues we need to address: Actions ------- 1. Can employers take action against an employee for participating? 2. Do the laws vary from state to state? Advocacy -------- 1. What can we do to increase awareness, act as a united front and increase Press converage and membership? Please send the email announcement to friends and coworkers who might understand this issue. Later, we should have better Advocacy documents that explain the need for this group. 2. Privacy - The member list for this group is available to the moderators only. For the time that's me. However, it is also subject to Yahoo's policies. How much of an issue is this? Goals ----- The short term goal is a single sick day which takes place across the country. We can do this with your participation! Get the word out and DO SOMETHING ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Secure your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE Guide "Securing Your Web Site for Business." Get it now! http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=n094442340008000 http://us.click.yahoo.com/6lIgYB/IWxCAA/yigFAA/26EolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: adhoc_it_union-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----- End forwarded message ----- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010718/b0a1bac7/attachment.pgp From jeme at brelin.net Wed Jul 18 21:03:55 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [adhoc_it_union] ISSUES to address In-Reply-To: <20010718200942.C53896@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Jon O . wrote: > 2. Privacy - The member list for this group is available to the > moderators only. For the time that's me. However, it is also subject > to Yahoo's policies. How much of an issue is this? > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> > Secure your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of > VeriSign's FREE Guide "Securing Your Web Site for Business." Get it now! > http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=n094442340008000 > http://us.click.yahoo.com/6lIgYB/IWxCAA/yigFAA/26EolB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > adhoc_it_union-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ I'd be happy to host this at bitmine.net if'n y'all want. I have a feeling Speakeasy is much more liberal than Yahoo. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From free-sklyarov at happycool.com Wed Jul 18 21:40:13 2001 From: free-sklyarov at happycool.com (Victor Piterbarg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [adhoc_it_union] ISSUES to address In-Reply-To: <20010718200942.C53896@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: How is this related to the Dmitry Sklyarov issue?? -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Jon O . Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 8:10 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] [adhoc_it_union] ISSUES to address Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 03:06:37 -0000 Reply-To: adhoc_it_union@yahoogroups.com Subject: [adhoc_it_union] ISSUES Here is a short list of issues we need to address: Actions ------- 1. Can employers take action against an employee for participating? 2. Do the laws vary from state to state? Advocacy -------- 1. What can we do to increase awareness, act as a united front and increase Press converage and membership? Please send the email announcement to friends and coworkers who might understand this issue. Later, we should have better Advocacy documents that explain the need for this group. 2. Privacy - The member list for this group is available to the moderators only. For the time that's me. However, it is also subject to Yahoo's policies. How much of an issue is this? Goals ----- The short term goal is a single sick day which takes place across the country. We can do this with your participation! Get the word out and DO SOMETHING ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Secure your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE Guide "Securing Your Web Site for Business." Get it now! http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=n094442340008000 http://us.click.yahoo.com/6lIgYB/IWxCAA/yigFAA/26EolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: adhoc_it_union-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----- End forwarded message ----- From jono at microshaft.org Wed Jul 18 22:00:54 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [adhoc_it_union] ISSUES to address In-Reply-To: ; from free-sklyarov@happycool.com on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 09:40:13PM -0700 References: <20010718200942.C53896@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010718220054.E53896@networkcommand.com> The Sklyarov issue should serve to move people to action. The fact that he was arrested for research should scare quite a few security people and consumers because there is a law against what amounts to peer review. The arrest of Sklyarov should be protested. However, the solution is not just to get him released, but to call for review of the law that was used to arrest him in the first place. There is a large group of people who do not understand the Sklyarov issue and think it is analogous to Napster. We know it is not, however we are the few. The few need to educate the many and strong action must be taken. IT Workers currently have no organization representing them as most other large groups of workers do. Even writers for sitcoms have a group which can speak on their behalf. The EFF does a great job speaking to the laws and creating change, however workers as a group need to stand up and show their support of the EFF by more then just sending money (which you should do), but by action. Actions speak louder than words -- even words that make up laws. This is just a small step toward creating a common place to express and account for our concerns. Most IT workers could have/did read the DMCA and know it was a bad idea. However, there was no way for us the express this concern to the general public and government. A group should work on getting Sklyarov out of jail, but another group needs to work on getting rid of the law. For the People, By the People is long gone. Adobe essentially issued an arrest warrant. That should scare everyone. If the DCMA wasn't a law, Sklyarov would be free and authors would know their books were that much more secure. So, I guess a sick day to protest the DMCA has quite a bit to do with the Dmitry Sklyarov issue. We need you: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/adhoc_it_union On 18-Jul-2001, Victor Piterbarg wrote: > How is this related to the Dmitry Sklyarov issue?? > > -----Original Message----- > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Jon O . > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 8:10 PM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: [free-sklyarov] [adhoc_it_union] ISSUES to address > > > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 03:06:37 -0000 > Reply-To: adhoc_it_union@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [adhoc_it_union] ISSUES > > Here is a short list of issues we need to address: > > Actions > ------- > 1. Can employers take action against an employee for participating? > > 2. Do the laws vary from state to state? > > Advocacy > -------- > 1. What can we do to increase awareness, act as a united front > and increase Press converage and membership? > > Please send the email announcement to friends and coworkers who might > understand this issue. Later, we should have better Advocacy documents > that explain the need for this group. > > 2. Privacy - The member list for this group is available to the > moderators only. For the time that's me. However, it is also subject > to Yahoo's policies. How much of an issue is this? > > Goals > ----- > The short term goal is a single sick day which takes place across the > country. We can do this with your participation! > > Get the word out and DO SOMETHING > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> > Secure your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of > VeriSign's FREE Guide "Securing Your Web Site for Business." Get it now! > http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=n094442340008000 > http://us.click.yahoo.com/6lIgYB/IWxCAA/yigFAA/26EolB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > adhoc_it_union-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010718/0af93264/attachment.pgp From rguerra at yahoo.com Wed Jul 18 22:04:43 2001 From: rguerra at yahoo.com (Robert Guerra) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [adhoc_it_union] ISSUES to address In-Reply-To: <20010718220054.E53896@networkcommand.com> References: <20010718200942.C53896@networkcommand.com> <20010718220054.E53896@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: At 10:00 PM -0700 2001/7/18, Jon O . wrote: >A group should work on getting Sklyarov out of jail, but >another group needs to work on getting rid of the law. you might want to get in touch with either CDT or EPIC www.cdt.org www.epic.org as they may be able to be of help as well. regards Robert -- Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. "The Life of Reason," 1906, George Santayana (1863-1952) -- Robert Guerra PGP Keys From vsync at quadium.net Wed Jul 18 22:56:25 2001 From: vsync at quadium.net (vsync) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [free-sklyarov]Adobe Disinvestment Campaign In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87u2094g3a.fsf@feynman.hurstdog.org> Bill Scannell writes: > PS: If you like the attached logo, send a note to dgross@mimetic.com and > tell him how cool it is. Feel free to use the logo as part of any protests > or campaigns you may come up with. I've created a scalable Postscript (heh) version of this logo. The hammer and sickle aren't exactly the same shape as in the .gif version, but it lines up correctly with itself, which i personally found to be more ?sthetically appealing. And it maintains the straight-line 'A' shape. Anyway, feel free to use this for whatever. I'm planning to get some t-shirts made with this logo; any and all profits will be donated to Sklyarov's legal defense. -- vsync http://quadium.net/ (cons (cons (car (cons 'c 'r)) (cdr (cons 'a 'o))) ; Orjner (cons (cons (car (cons 'n 'c)) (cdr (cons nil 's))) nil)) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: boycottadobe.eps Type: application/postscript Size: 877 bytes Desc: boycott adobe! Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010718/e0f04dad/boycottadobe.eps From karl.deabrew at binarything.com Wed Jul 18 23:03:49 2001 From: karl.deabrew at binarything.com (Karl De Abrew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] All things considered... Message-ID: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F52E@mail.roundtable.com.au> Rick Karr's report is now available on the Web at: http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/atc/20010718.atc.13.rmm See http://www.npr.org/ -Karl _________________________________________ Karl De Abrew karl.deabrew@binarything.com http://www.planetpdf.com/ http://www.planetebook.com/ http://www.xmlarena.com/ http://www.binarything.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network From chema at celorio.com Wed Jul 18 01:59:47 2001 From: chema at celorio.com (Chema Celorio) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] how can we help ? Message-ID: <3B555003.C6C28C07@celorio.com> I tried searching the archives but they seem to not be working. I'd like to know if/when/how can I help out, let me know when a defense fund is opened to pitch in. This is non-sense. They just don't get : a) The internet is not owned by anyone, this is not their turf and they have very little control over it. b) security thru obscurity DOES NOT FUCKING work. i wonder when the will learn. Chema From ender at weedfest.com Wed Jul 18 20:04:57 2001 From: ender at weedfest.com (A Very Defiant Duckling Named Ender) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FAQ request f/a non-list memeber Message-ID: I'm looking for a FAQ on issues raised by this action. In particular, the legality of arresting a foriegn national (assumed foreign national: he lives/works and has a Russian name) for legal actions engaged in from his country of origin, while on foreign (US) soil because American laws have a different slant on his actions. From mhamrick at cryptonomicon.net Wed Jul 18 18:10:30 2001 From: mhamrick at cryptonomicon.net (Matthew S. Hamrick) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Cryptonomicon.Net Coverage of the Sklyarov Controversy Message-ID: Cryptonomicon.Net has a couple of pages relating to the current controversy. A collection of links to pages of interest: http://www.cryptonomicon.net/links.php?op=viewslink&sid=55 Some downloads of relevant files: http://www.cryptonomicon.net/download.php?op=viewdownload&cid=4 And a discussion list: http://www.cryptonomicon.net/article.php?sid=38&mode=thread&order=0 -Matt Hamrick From ericgrimm at mediaone.net Wed Jul 18 20:45:59 2001 From: ericgrimm at mediaone.net (Eric C. Grimm) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] For future reference In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01071823455901.11150@linux> I'm very happy to see the EFF getting involved in this effort, as well as Jennifer Granick. Keep up the good work, gang! Sorry I cannot be in the Bay area for any meetings, but call if there's any way I can help. All readers should be aware that EFF is already up to their eyeballs in work protecting everone else's civil liberties -- the Ed Felten case, the 2600 DeCSS appeal in front of the Second Circuit, the challenge to CHIPA (federal internet filtering mandate) and many other cases. So be sure to chip in for this project and other worthy projects. If you've already donated, donate again. If you haven't donate enough, please donate some more. It is alarming that Mr. Sklyarov has already made at least one appearance in court (on July 16, according to the USAO's press release) and that is still unclear whether he is represented by counsel (esp. counsel that knows something about technology and crypto) and if so, who his counsel is. FOR FUTURE REFERENCE TO EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES CODING IS NOT A CRIME: Learn and commit to memory the "magic words" -- two mandatory phrases to be used in an unwanted encounter with law enforcement such as the one reported by Andy Malyshev (Dimitry's colleague from Elcomsoft) in this < http://zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/2001-July/000011.html > archived message: (1) Am I free to leave? (2) I want to speak to a lawyer. The most important single thing is to make sure that Dimitry is properly represented and fully understands that he has no obligation (nor does Malyshev) EVER to say anything to law enforcement. If they are charging Dimitry with a crime, then a prolonged detention without contact with counsel can only be counterproductive. I have every confidence in the folks who have already signed up on the list to make sure Dimitry's defense is on track in short order, however. After reading the slides from Dimitry's presentation, the notion that he is some "hacker" menace to society who needs to be jailed -- as opposed to somebody engaged in serious cryptographic research -- seems mor than a little far-fetched. I'm sure glad it is the Feds who have the burden of proof on this one and not Dimitry because the Feds may have a real uphill struggle on their hands to prove up a case. One last item for everybody posting to this list and engaging in public protest with respect to this arrest / prosecution: The MANNER in which you express yourself will make all the difference between whether your arguments are taken seriously and persuade your audience, or whether they are disrespected and ignored. There's no point in calling Adobe or anyone else bad names or using language about "strike forces." There's a way to say certain orginizations are doing something wrong without coming across to the public like there is something wrong with you. Read the following article from Slashdot: http://slashdot.org/features/01/07/18/1445233.shtml And when you're done, read this onefrom Linuxplanet: http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/opinions/3589/1/ Supporters of Dimitry have a strong case to make and we are on the side of right and justice. There's no need to demonize or belittle the other side. There's no need to do things that will not be taken seriously. Just make our case the most persuasive way you can and do it in a way that shows you are proud of what you are doing. Again, keep up the good work, gang! Eric C. Grimm CyberBrief, PLC 320 South Main Street Ann Arbor, MI 48107-7341 734.332.4900 From bill at scannell.org Thu Jul 19 00:25:09 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsflash! Sklyarov Denied Access To Russian Consul In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I just got off the telephone with Vladimir Katalov. Katalov informs me that the Russian embassy has been denied access to Dmitry Sklyarov, a flagrant violation of international law. No Russian consular official has spoken to Sklyarov since his detention earlier this week. In addition, Sklyarov's wife and two children have not heard from their husband and father since his arrest. They are understandably worried sick for his safety. It is believed Dmitry Sklyarov is being held in solitary confinement. As an American who honorably served in the armed forces, I am ashamed for the actions of my government. This cannot stand. Telephone numbers: US State Department: 1-202-647-6575 Russian Embassy: 1-202-298-5700 Russian Consul (SF) 1-415928-6878 Call. Get your friends to call. Call again. Please disseminate this information as widely as possible. -Bill From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 19 00:26:59 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FAQ request f/a non-list memeber In-Reply-To: ; from ender@weedfest.com on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 10:04:57PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010719002659.A8506@zork.net> Please subscribe if you're going to write to the list and want to see replies! A Very Defiant Duckling Named Ender writes: > I'm looking for a FAQ on issues raised by this action. > > In particular, the legality of arresting a foriegn national > (assumed foreign national: he lives/works and has a Russian name) for > legal actions engaged in from his country of origin, while on foreign > (US) soil because American laws have a different slant on his actions. More of my not being a lawyer: International jurisdiction is a tricky issue. The Complaint alleges that Sklyarov _did_ do something in the U.S.: selling a copy of a program to Adobe (and in general offering to sell the program to people in the U.S.). There are possibly some interesting parallel to international jurisdiction cases involving commercial web sites, e.g. _Yahoo! v. LICRA_. I don't think there is any suggestion here that the DMCA applies extraterritorially, but rather that Sklyarov made contacts with the U.S. by selling software to U.S. residents and _because of this_ is subject to U.S. law. That's the only way I can understand why the complaint goes into so much detail about the physical location of the people at Adobe who are supposed to have bought a copy of AEBPR over the Internet. So the Complaint claims Sklyarov did things in the U.S. even if he wasn't physically present there at the time. (You can verify this by looking at the date of the offense alleged in the Complaint!) This is often enough for domestic jurisdiction (you can have "contacts" with a place which courts say make the exercise of jurisdiction valid, even while you weren't physically present at the time of certain complained-of activities). Aside from this, some laws claim to apply extraterritorially (for example, certain laws against terrorism). A lot of plaintiffs in Internet cases have tried to blur traditional jurisdictional standards by noting that the Internet provides access to material which was created and published elsewhere. Thus, some plaintiffs will argue that jurisdiction is potentially proper _anywhere complained-of content reaches_ or _anywhere from which complained-of content can be purchased_. Someone on one list today mentioned _U.S. v. Thomas_, the old "Amateur Action BBS" case, in which two people in one state were convicted of violating the obscenity laws of a different state _because their BBS could be accessed by people in the foreign state_. Many people are afraid of a proposed new treaty on jurisdiction in civil cases because it would possibly create international jurisdiction standards that worked like this. However, I am oversimplifying the situation. It's interesting to talk to lawyers who are knowledgeable about international jurisdiction. Probably they don't understand it, because nobody understands it, but at least they're likely to have their facts straight. :-) -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 00:38:01 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsflash! Sklyarov Denied Access To Russian Consul In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87y9plnzc6.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "BS" == Bill Scannell writes: BS> I just got off the telephone with Vladimir Katalov. Katalov BS> informs me that the Russian embassy has been denied access to BS> Dmitry Sklyarov, a flagrant violation of international law. BS> No Russian consular official has spoken to Sklyarov since his BS> detention earlier this week. Can this be confirmed with the US Attorney's office? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 19 00:38:56 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: How to donate/EFF statement (was: Re: [free-sklyarov] how can we help ?) In-Reply-To: <3B555003.C6C28C07@celorio.com>; from chema@celorio.com on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 03:59:47AM -0500 References: <3B555003.C6C28C07@celorio.com> Message-ID: <20010719003856.C8506@zork.net> Chema Celorio writes: > I tried searching the archives but they seem to not be working. > I'd like to know if/when/how can I help out, let me know when > a defense fund is opened to pitch in. We had a meeting tonight in San Francisco which included some EFF staff. I thought it was very productive. One point from the meeting: The EFF is attempting to provide assistance to Dmitry Sklyarov and his colleagues, including legal representation. You can support this work and the EFF's other work against the DMCA by making a financial donation to the EFF and indicating that your donation is for the "DMCA fund". http://www.eff.org/support/ Since the meeting, the EFF has also issued its official statement in support of Sklyarov, and pledging to offer him legal support. I include the text of this statement below. (Note that Mr. Sklyarov is not yet represented by the EFF; the EFF is simply stating its intention to help him and to offer him legal representation.) http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010718_eff_sklyarov_statement.html Statement on the Arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov from EFF Executive Director Shari Steele Once again, the Digital Millineum Copyright Act (DMCA) is proving itself to be as harmful to civil liberties as we predicted it would be. The latest victim is a Russian programmer named Dmitry Sklyarov, who authored a program that permits editing, copying, and printing of electronic books by unlocking a proprietary Adobe electronic book format. Mr. Sklyarov has been brought up on criminal charges under the DMCA for distributing a product designed to circumvent copyright protection measures. This is different than the 2600 and Felten cases, which are civil lawsuits. In a civil lawsuit, one private citizen (or company) sues another for money and/or the cessation of a particular action. In a criminal case, the government brings charges against an individual (or company) and the punishment for conviction can be prison and/or fines. EFF has been in contact with the Assistant U.S. Attorney (AUSA)'s office trying to track Mr. Sklyarov's whereabouts and speak with him directly. While the arrest took place in Las Vegas, the complaint was executed in San Jose, meaning that Mr. Sklyarov will be sent to California to stand trial. We have spoken with his colleagues, criminal defense attorneys and others to help with his defense. After he arrives in California, our first order of business is to get Mr. Sklyarov out of jail on a bond pending his trial. EFF has begun to pull together a top-notch legal team to help him defend his right to talk about and distribute the Advanced eBook Processor software program, and we'll be ready to step in as soon as it is appropriate. EFF knew when we took on the 2600 Case over a year ago that fixing the DMCA would require several legal challenges. EFF remains committed to chipping away at this law until it no longer poses a threat to our right to free speech. Lest anyone be confused, this case is not about copyright infringement. Mr. Sklyarov is not accused of infringing anyone's copyrights. He is accused of building the Advanced eBook Processor, a tool that allows the legitimate purchaser of an e-book to translate it from one digital format into another (from Adobe's eBook format into Adobe's Portable Document Format). Mr. Sklyarov is not being prosecuted for using the tool himself -- in fact, such a prosecution would be impossible, since using such a tool (as distinguished from building or distributing one) breaks no law. Mr. Sklyarov has entered the strange Twilight Zone of the DMCA, where using a tool is legal, but building it is a crime. We invite your support. If you are not yet an EFF member, please join with us at http://www.eff.org/support. If you already are a member and wish to make a donation, you can use that same link to get to our donation page. Together we will keep the pressure on anyone who chooses to degrade our basic rights. Thanks for your help. Shari Steele, EFF Executive Director July 18, 2001 -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From pablos at kadrevis.com Thu Jul 19 00:33:05 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another US$.02 Message-ID: <862938.995502784@[0.0.0.0]> To the managemnt of Adobe, It saddens me to see the poor choice Adobe has made with its complaint against Dmitry Sklyarov. I have always appreciated the fantastic software created by Adobe. I used three of your applications in creating the Boycott Adobe web site at . Dmitry is a 26 year old father of two children from Moscow. Imagine being detained indefinitely by the KGB in Russia where you have no friends or family. This is exactly what is going on with Dmitry due to Adobe's actions. For the last three days he has been denied communication with friends, family, even the Russian Consul. Please understand that the DMCA is unconstitutional and will continue to be fought earnestly by those who understand, and care about the future of our rights online. We've been waiting for a case just like this one to fight the DMCA in court. It promises to be a long run of bad press for Adobe. Over the last few months, I've seen institutional investors looking for any excuse to pull out of high tech companies. So I'm particularly saddened that the impending backlash against Adobe will be very difficult for you. I understand the trickle down effect this will have on product development. Please rescind Adobe's complaint against Dmitry Sklyarov before this becomes a bigger problem for all of us. As much as I want to see the DMCA suffer, Dmitry is the wrong victim to use in fixing American laws. I'm off to make Boycott Adobe T-Shirts, please buy one from our web site, all proceeds go to help Dmitry's defense. Thanks, Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 From bill at scannell.org Thu Jul 19 00:41:20 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsflash! Sklyarov Denied Access To Russian Consul In-Reply-To: <87y9plnzc6.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: on 19.7.01 02:38, Klepht at klepht@eleutheria.org wrote: >>>>>> "BS" == Bill Scannell writes: > > BS> I just got off the telephone with Vladimir Katalov. Katalov > BS> informs me that the Russian embassy has been denied access to > BS> Dmitry Sklyarov, a flagrant violation of international law. > BS> No Russian consular official has spoken to Sklyarov since his > BS> detention earlier this week. > > Can this be confirmed with the US Attorney's office? > > ~Klepht Add that to the list of numbers to call. ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From pablos at kadrevis.com Thu Jul 19 00:51:18 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] how can we help ? In-Reply-To: <3B555003.C6C28C07@celorio.com> References: <3B555003.C6C28C07@celorio.com> Message-ID: <928519.995503877@[0.0.0.0]> --On Wednesday, July 18, 2001 3:59 AM -0500 Chema Celorio wrote: > I tried searching the archives but they seem to not be working. > I'd like to know if/when/how can I help out, let me know when > a defense fund is opened to pitch in. The BoycottAdobe crew is collecting donations via PayPal which will go directly to Dmitry, as we're in touch with his colleagues. You can send PayPal to but donations to the EFF are also encouraged. pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From tabindak at best.com Thu Jul 19 01:03:59 2001 From: tabindak at best.com (Tabinda N. Khan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] anybody working on a flyer? In-Reply-To: ; from adric@adric.net on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 10:45:05PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010719010359.B20153@shell9.ba.best.com> Quoting adric: > I can't make it to California for the festivities, so I'm trying > to raise local awareness by pestering people on the web and by creating > a flyer I can distribute to cybercafes and user groups around these parts. > > I've gotten started on a flyer (handbill?), but I'd appreciate some > help, or pointers to flyers already online. At the San Francisco meeting tonight I was charged with taking content from the Web materials being posted tomorrow and making a flyer for the protest. I like your flyer too. My goal is to make the Web site the flyer and hand out something which will cause people to look at the site since it will be more up-to-date than paper. I can post a copy when mine is done. Tabinda -- From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 19 01:11:18 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsflash! Sklyarov Denied Access To Russian Consul In-Reply-To: ; from bill@scannell.org on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 02:41:20AM -0500 References: <87y9plnzc6.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010719011118.F8506@zork.net> Bill Scannell writes: > on 19.7.01 02:38, Klepht at klepht@eleutheria.org wrote: > > >>>>>> "BS" == Bill Scannell writes: > > > > BS> I just got off the telephone with Vladimir Katalov. Katalov > > BS> informs me that the Russian embassy has been denied access to > > BS> Dmitry Sklyarov, a flagrant violation of international law. > > BS> No Russian consular official has spoken to Sklyarov since his > > BS> detention earlier this week. > > > > Can this be confirmed with the US Attorney's office? > > > > ~Klepht > > Add that to the list of numbers to call. Once particular things are confirmed, however, people should stop calling the offices that confirmed them. We don't need to have 7 people asking the U.S. Attorney the same question, or asking the Consulate. Apparently the EFF should be getting some detailed updated information tomorrow, because some EFF staff members have gotten in touch with Sklyarov's colleagues at ElcomSoft. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From pablos at kadrevis.com Thu Jul 19 01:23:45 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsflash! Sklyarov Denied Access To Russian Consul In-Reply-To: <20010719011118.F8506@zork.net> References: <87y9plnzc6.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.u s> <20010719011118.F8506@zork.net> Message-ID: <1045334.995505824@[0.0.0.0]> --On Thursday, July 19, 2001 1:11 AM -0700 Seth David Schoen wrote: > Apparently the EFF should be getting some detailed updated information > tomorrow, because some EFF staff members have gotten in touch with > Sklyarov's colleagues at ElcomSoft. I think some people may have the wrong idea about Dmitry's colleagues. These men currently do not have any better information than we do. They have even less of an idea about what to do/who to talk to/how to get help than we do. The Russian Consul, while having filed inquiries, also knows nothing thus far. Dmitry's colleagues, also have difficulty with English. They need help from us. Having talked to Alexander (Elcomsoft Executive in San Francisco) only an hour ago: 1 Nobody has talked to Dmitry since his arrest. 2 Nobody knows where he is being held. 3 Nobody knows where he'll turn up next. Where "Nobody" is any of us and/or Dmitry's colleagues, not the feds. pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From mgenin at computerra.ru Thu Jul 19 02:31:19 2001 From: mgenin at computerra.ru (Mike Genin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re:FAQ request Message-ID: <1484040539.20010719133119@computerra.ru> Hello David, here are my thoughts about Sklyarov situation. But first - I'm a Russian lawyer, my speciality is International Private LAw and area of interests include cyberlaw, intellectual property etc (now I'm in doctorate). I work on Computerra Publishing House www.computerra.ru. We have close relations to Elcomsoft, and I myself gave some counseling to both Alex and Vladimir Katalov several times, including this case (before arrest, when all this was just starting). So. USA domestic law, like legislation of any other country is limited to borders of this country. And often there is a situation, when some action is legal in one country and illegal in other at the same time. For example - in Russia is forbidden to have more then one wife. And we will not arrest any Arabian sheikh for having his harem. In Russia programs of Elcomsoft are _legal_, and moreover actions of Adobe eBook reader is illegal, because by our copyright law any user must have right to do backup copies of files. But FBI accused Dmytry that he take with him in the USA program that is illegal there. This is art. 17 of criminal Code part 1201 (b) (1) (A) DCMA. So that's the case. -- Best regards, Mike Genin Computerra Publishing www.ibusinnes.ru - www.computerra.ru mailto:mgenin@computerra.ru From andrea at gravitt.org Thu Jul 19 02:40:09 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] stickers! Somebody please make some Message-ID: I would really like to have stickers I can pass around and put on things and people to build awareness of the issue. Not bumper stickers (for me, anyway) but real live sheets of Avery's Finest. Maybe one of you unemployed pixel-pushers can come up with something. I want to see a design that gets the attention of people who don't give a rat's ass about some Russian and have never heard of the DMCA and convinces them they should. Andrea ------------------------------------------------------- feorlen at acm dot org From proclus at iname.com Thu Jul 19 04:05:57 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus realm) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitri's family References: Message-ID: <3B56BF15.94973070@iname.com> I just read in the Times that Dmitri is a grad student with a family and two small children in Moscow. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/18/technology/18CRYP.html Do we have any news from them, and can we make sure that they are being cared for? A father wants to know. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Thu Jul 19 04:14:19 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AtH is here Message-ID: <003a01c11043$f89da9e0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, All! I am here and ready for actions. My proposal is to make in Moscow: (1) press-conference at Saturday, 17:00 /* can give my flat */ (2) demonstration at Monday, the same time (UTC, local?) as in San Jose near US Embassy or Ambassador's residence. Is anyone here from Moscow, who already made demonstrations? As in June, 1999 we need 3 person, that sign a paper to Moscow mayor. This must be done *TODAY*, because authority can say "that place is already reserved for other action" and return paper back, as they really did during FKD/Moscow. :( We need time to re-apply with new place. Also we need a place, where copy flyers. Is this the first case, when FBI arrest people directly after DEF CON? - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From larsg at eurorights.org Thu Jul 19 04:16:36 2001 From: larsg at eurorights.org (Lars Gaarden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re:FAQ request References: <1484040539.20010719133119@computerra.ru> Message-ID: <3B56C194.7040306@eurorights.org> Mike Genin wrote: > In Russia programs of Elcomsoft are _legal_, and moreover actions of > Adobe eBook reader is illegal, because by our copyright law any user > must have right to do backup copies of files. Is an official english translation of the relevant parts of the russian copyright law available? In Norway, the owner of a copy of a software program has the right to make backups if required. This right can not be signed away by contract. However, this does not _require_ the maker of the software program to provide means for producing this backup. i.e., backup is explicitly legal, but the software producer is under no obligation to make it easy to perform the act. So, Elcomsoft programs should be legal in Norway but it is uncertain weither the Adobe eBook reader is illegal. The relevant law in .no is 39h, para2 of the copyright law. See links below for official norwegian version and english translation. http://www.lovdata.no/all/tl-19610512-002-029.html http://www.unesco.org/culture/copy/copyright/norway/page2.html#s39g This will probably change once Norway and the rest of EU implement the new EU copyright directive. While not quite as bad as the DMCA, it will severely restrict the public's right to make use of digital copyrighted works. See http://eurorights.org for more. Also, this only covers software. An eBook can be argued to be either a normal copyrighted work, software, or both. -- "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead. From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Thu Jul 19 04:37:36 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsflash! Sklyarov Denied Access To Russian Consul Message-ID: <3B56C680.2123E3C8@sheffield.ac.uk> Yes Pablos, it is true. We (russians) do need help from you all. Being russian for 26 years I do not hope that Russian authorities will do anything serious to help us. Have you got any links to Amnesty International USA? Denial of access to russian counsil is a very worrying fact. AI should be informed of it asap. Any other ideas? anton --------------------------------------- Anton Chterenlikht Research Assistant Mechanical Engineering Department Sheffield University Mappin Street Sheffield S1 3JD UK Tel: (+) 114 2227863 Fax: (+) 114 2226015 Email: a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk --------------------------------------- I think some people may have the wrong idea about Dmitry's colleagues. These men currently do not have any better information than we do. They have even less of an idea about what to do/who to talk to/how to get help than we do. The Russian Consul, while having filed inquiries, also knows nothing thus far. Dmitry's colleagues, also have difficulty with English. They need help from us. Having talked to Alexander (Elcomsoft Executive in San Francisco) only an hour ago: 1 Nobody has talked to Dmitry since his arrest. 2 Nobody knows where he is being held. 3 Nobody knows where he'll turn up next. Where "Nobody" is any of us and/or Dmitry's colleagues, not the feds. pablos. From spector at zeitgeist.com Thu Jul 19 05:48:22 2001 From: spector at zeitgeist.com (David HM Spector) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Divestment? I think not... Message-ID: <200107191248.f6JCmMW02643@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> Before anyone flames me... read on: The best way to hurt Adobe for their asinine and short-sighted attacks on the software community is make their PR life so painful they have no choice but to back down and even apologize. DO NOT to divest yourself of Adobe stock, but rather hold your stock, and if you don't own any, call (or click over to) your broker and buy 1 (one) share of Adobe stock. We as a community of shareholders can file class-action suits against the company. The power of a few hundred thousand software developers cannot be trifled with --- especially if we keep this event in the news. Next, what we need are a few lawyers (is the EFF listening) who will work with all these newly minted Adobe shareholder to (legally -- no stupid pet trick, please) hound Adobe's management. Divenstments don't work -- big companies don't care if you divest because the majority of people will NOT divest. They DO care about bad press and angry, volcal politically active share-holders. Oh, and of course, you should call you congress-folk can tell them to get on teh DoJ/FBI's case about this issue. Congress people a re especially afraid of vocal constituents. .... thoughts? Feedback? David -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David HM Spector Network Design & Infrastructure Security spector@zeitgeist.com -or- spector@spector.com Amateur Radio: W2DHM (ARRL life member) -.-. --- -. -. . -.-. - .-- .. - .... .- -- .- - . ..- .-. .-. .- -.. .. --- Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves. -George Gordon Noel Byron [a.k.a Lord Byron](1788-1824) From warthawg at ecpi.com Thu Jul 19 06:03:21 2001 From: warthawg at ecpi.com (Joe Barr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Divestment? I think not... In-Reply-To: <200107191248.f6JCmMW02643@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> References: <200107191248.f6JCmMW02643@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> Message-ID: <20010719080321.46954fcc.warthawg@ecpi.com> It seems to me that we are chasing the wrong monster. Adobe is a symptom, the DMCA is the problem. We should focus more on ways to get it repealed, rather than work solely to spotlight Adobe's stupidity and greed. Those two traits are always going to be a part of the human condition, but the DMCA doesn't have to be. See ya, Joe Barr On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:48:22 -0400 David HM Spector wrote: > > Before anyone flames me... read on: > > The best way to hurt Adobe for their asinine and short-sighted attacks > on the software community is make their PR life so painful they have > no choice but to back down and even apologize. > > DO NOT to divest yourself of Adobe stock, but rather hold your stock, > and if you don't own any, call (or click over to) your broker and buy > 1 (one) share of Adobe stock. > > We as a community of shareholders can file class-action suits against > the company. The power of a few hundred thousand software developers > cannot be trifled with --- especially if we keep this event in the > news. > > Next, what we need are a few lawyers (is the EFF listening) who will > work with all these newly minted Adobe shareholder to (legally -- no > stupid pet trick, please) hound Adobe's management. > > Divenstments don't work -- big companies don't care if you divest > because the majority of people will NOT divest. They DO care about > bad press and angry, volcal politically active share-holders. > > > Oh, and of course, you should call you congress-folk can tell them to > get on teh DoJ/FBI's case about this issue. Congress people a re > especially afraid of vocal constituents. > > .... thoughts? Feedback? > > David > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > David HM Spector Network Design & Infrastructure Security > spector@zeitgeist.com -or- spector@spector.com > > Amateur Radio: W2DHM (ARRL life member) > -.-. --- -. -. . -.-. - .-- .. - .... .- -- .- - . ..- .-. .-. .- -.. .. --- > Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who > dare not, are slaves. -George Gordon Noel Byron [a.k.a Lord Byron](1788-1824) > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- #====================================================# # Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! Free Sklyarov! # #====================================================# From spector at zeitgeist.com Thu Jul 19 06:07:31 2001 From: spector at zeitgeist.com (David HM Spector) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Divestment? I think not... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:03:21 CDT." <20010719080321.46954fcc.warthawg@ecpi.com> Message-ID: <200107191307.f6JD7VH02700@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> Agreed... but we have to start somewhere and making it clear to Adobe and other companies that the community will NOT tolerate their bad behaviour is the first step in fighting the DCMA. We won't get the DCMA repealed if Adobe and other bad actors are still standing behind it. The best way to get them to BACK the repeal of this silliness is to make sure they know there's a large political penalty in continuing to support it. _DHMS From proclus at iname.com Thu Jul 19 06:13:51 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus realm) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Divestment? I think not... References: <200107191248.f6JCmMW02643@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> <20010719080321.46954fcc.warthawg@ecpi.com> Message-ID: <3B56DD0F.58BEC991@iname.com> Joe Barr wrote: > > It seems to me that we are chasing the wrong monster. Adobe is a symptom, > the DMCA is the problem. We should focus more on ways to get it repealed, > rather than work solely to spotlight Adobe's stupidity and greed. Those > two traits are always going to be a part of the human condition, but the > DMCA doesn't have to be. Wrong, we should make an example of Adobe for this particularly abusive behavior so that no company will ever dare to do it again. There are plenty of bad laws on the books. Some of them don't make sense, and they are not enforced. We will simply create situation where companies will find it unbearable to try and enforce this dumb law. If Adobe goes down for this, then so be it. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > > See ya, > Joe Barr > > On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:48:22 -0400 > David HM Spector wrote: > > > > > Before anyone flames me... read on: > > > > The best way to hurt Adobe for their asinine and short-sighted attacks > > on the software community is make their PR life so painful they have > > no choice but to back down and even apologize. > > > > DO NOT to divest yourself of Adobe stock, but rather hold your stock, > > and if you don't own any, call (or click over to) your broker and buy > > 1 (one) share of Adobe stock. > > > > We as a community of shareholders can file class-action suits against > > the company. The power of a few hundred thousand software developers > > cannot be trifled with --- especially if we keep this event in the > > news. > > > > Next, what we need are a few lawyers (is the EFF listening) who will > > work with all these newly minted Adobe shareholder to (legally -- no > > stupid pet trick, please) hound Adobe's management. > > > > Divenstments don't work -- big companies don't care if you divest > > because the majority of people will NOT divest. They DO care about > > bad press and angry, volcal politically active share-holders. > > > > > > Oh, and of course, you should call you congress-folk can tell them to > > get on teh DoJ/FBI's case about this issue. Congress people a re > > especially afraid of vocal constituents. > > > > .... thoughts? Feedback? > > > > David > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > David HM Spector Network Design & Infrastructure Security > > spector@zeitgeist.com -or- spector@spector.com > > > > Amateur Radio: W2DHM (ARRL life member) > > -.-. --- -. -. . -.-. - .-- .. - .... .- -- .- - . ..- .-. .-. .- -.. .. --- > > Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who > > dare not, are slaves. -George Gordon Noel Byron [a.k.a Lord Byron](1788-1824) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > -- > #====================================================# > # Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! Free Sklyarov! # > #====================================================# > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From esper at sherohman.org Thu Jul 19 06:19:47 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] how can we help ? In-Reply-To: <3B555003.C6C28C07@celorio.com>; from chema@celorio.com on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 03:59:47AM -0500 References: <3B555003.C6C28C07@celorio.com> Message-ID: <20010719081947.A19001@sherohman.org> On Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 03:59:47AM -0500, Chema Celorio wrote: > I tried searching the archives but they seem to not be working. The archives look OK now, but I'm afraid Mailman doesn't provide a search function. > This is non-sense. They just don't get : > a) The internet is not owned by anyone, this is not their turf > and they have very little control over it. > b) security thru obscurity DOES NOT FUCKING work. While I agree with you, I'm not quite clear on point A. What does Dmitry's case have to do with the internet? This is about document formats and access to encrypted local data, AFAICT. From karl.deabrew at binarything.com Thu Jul 19 06:49:19 2001 From: karl.deabrew at binarything.com (Karl De Abrew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest Message-ID: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F55F@mail.roundtable.com.au> The next Wired article is out -- definitely worth reading. Some excepts below... -Karl Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest By Declan McCullagh 2:00 a.m. July 19, 2001 PDT http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45342,00.html "WASHINGTON -- When the FBI arrested a Russian programmer this week on charges of criminal copyright violations, the government unwittingly ignited a powder keg of outrage" ... "This high-visibility prosecution under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act seems to have focused the kind of anger not seen since the days of the 1996 Communications Decency Act or the Secret Service raid of Steve Jackson Games -- two defining moments in the development of civil liberties online." ... "In San Francisco on Wednesday evening, campaigners met at the home of one outraged activist to plan strategy. Some cypherpunks have created BoycottAdobe.com, which blames Adobe for "abusing U.S. copyright law to protect their cash-flow," and others are hunting for San Francisco-area natives who can vouch for Sklyarov's character -- so he can be released on bail. The danger for Adobe is that rather than dissipating, online anger could instead focus on how the company likely lobbied the U.S. government to take up its cause with regard to the ElcomSoft utility." From sonjat at cs.unm.edu Thu Jul 19 07:02:32 2001 From: sonjat at cs.unm.edu (Sonja V. Tideman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F55F@mail.roundtable.com.au> Message-ID: Hello, I live near the Denver area and was wondering what I could do to help. This arrest absolutely infuriates, and makes me ashamed to be American. I have never had to say that before, but now it is true. I know Denver does not have the IT population of the Bay Area, but there are a lot of IT workers here and I was thinking that perhaps we could have a protest outside one of the federal buildings here as well. I would like to do something. Thanks Sonja From esper at sherohman.org Thu Jul 19 07:24:05 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 04:44:09PM -0700 References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010719092405.E19001@sherohman.org> On Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 04:44:09PM -0700, Nick Moffitt wrote: > To avoid a whiney picket march, we should do something clever > for the press to write about. I haven't got any ideas off the top of > my head, but here are a few musings: You're right - the press is a lot more interested in the odd or the sensational rather than Yet Another Protest. Cue protest story from my old college roommate: Back in the late 80s, protesting against the war in El Salvador was the thing to do. Tom didn't have any problems with it and he just liked to mess with the sorts of people who were protesting, so he got a couple of his friends together and set up a protest against lime Jell-O(TM) across the street from a major El Salvador protest. A couple hundred people holding a serious protest in support of a popular cause on one side of the street. A half-dozen wackos claiming that their mothers had been killed by lime-flavored gelatin on the other. Guess who got all the press coverage? The ones that seemed more "interesting". Plain old protests can work, but, these days, they're plain and they're old. Something creative (no, sorry - I don't have any suggestions) can be a lot more effective with a lot fewer people involved. From cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu Thu Jul 19 07:24:51 2001 From: cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boston area activism. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'd like to volunteer to organize "help-sklyarov" activities in the Boston area. As someone who has previously been unjustly arrested (for making political puppets in Philadelphia; later acquitted), I deeply empathize with Sklyarov's plight. If you're in the Boston area, or have ideas for Boston-area activities, please write me. --scott assassination Diplomat Echelon AK-47 Suharto early warning D5 SLBM plastique Moscow NSA explosion shotgun Richard Tomlinson BATF DES ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian ) -- "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970, minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4. -- [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/] #!/usr/bin/perl -w # 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz # MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout # arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order $_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5; $_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d= unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d >>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9 ,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t ^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271)) [$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval From jay at cs.uoregon.edu Thu Jul 19 07:26:23 2001 From: jay at cs.uoregon.edu (Jay Schneider) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought for a slogan Message-ID: <001b01c1105e$ca1c3120$7f603c04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> Hi All, I've been trying to come up with a soundbite/catch phrase that describes the problem. Can I suggest: "Writing Code is not a Crime!" or more simply "Code is not a Crime" It seems to sing and IMHO describes the root of the problem. Well, at least one of the roots of one of the problems. Hopefully, it'll make people think and provide a favorable starting point for describing the problem to both the masses and tech workers. If you like it use it! Jay Schneider From esper at sherohman.org Thu Jul 19 07:32:42 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: ; from jeme@brelin.net on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 05:01:14PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010719093241.F19001@sherohman.org> On Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 05:01:14PM -0700, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Eliab wrote: > #!/bin/sh > tr abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ opqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMN *sigh* Kids these days... Always doing things the hard way... #!/bin/sh tr a-zA-Z o-za-nO-ZA-N You will, of course, have to figure out the decoding command for yourself. From spector at zeitgeist.com Thu Jul 19 07:36:37 2001 From: spector at zeitgeist.com (David HM Spector) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:02:32 MDT." Message-ID: <200107191436.f6JEabH03046@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> Buy 1 share of Adobe stock, then call the shareholder information line and tell them you protest adobe's actions. After that, join in with the rest of us in a shareholder class-action suit against the CEO, Chairman and the board of directors. _DHMS From andrea at gravitt.org Thu Jul 19 07:48:40 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought for a slogan Message-ID: <004201c11061$e8a14600$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> EFF has been using "Coding is not a crime" on their bumperstickers, which I like. One of these days I will actually put it on my vehicle, although the impact is severely limited by the fact that I more often take the bus. (Hence, interest in small stickers.) I'm thinking of something that connects Free Speech (a bedrock of Constitutional Law but sadly, as a Comic Book Legal Defense Fund t-shirt put it, "Void where Prohibited") with the ability to engage in research without corporate-backed government interference. Basically, it is not a stretch to see how enforcing the DMCA in this way prohibits objective evaluation of digital products and services and hurts end users. Before DMCA, individuals and companies have used bad laws or specious "crimes" to harass anybody they didn't like. This is now just another tool that is available for their use. (The organization mentioned above was the result of action after a drastic governmental crackdown on an individual for going about his daily business. An artist was convicted of producing obscene comic strips and ordered to not draw.) Andrea From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Thu Jul 19 07:47:54 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest References: <200107191436.f6JEabH03046@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> Message-ID: <00a001c11061$cf2ba260$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, David HM Spector! > Buy 1 share of Adobe stock, then call the shareholder information line and Do you know, what you advise? Give Adobe money ($xx per each action participant), that will fund neutralization of our action! Better ask people, that have Adobe stocks, to share with friends. Good Luck! Arvi the Hacker (AtH//UgF@hMoscow) From bill at scannell.org Thu Jul 19 07:51:44 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Stickers/Slogan In-Reply-To: <20010719092405.E19001@sherohman.org> Message-ID: Bumper stickers are fine, but what we really need are true mime-producing implements. A small (2"x2") sticker reading "Commit an Adobe ThoughtCrime" with the logo and URL would be small enough to keep in the pocket or purse for deployment on public places such as bathroom walls, light poles, bar tables, laptops and dot.com lobbies. We'd need a lot of them. Anyone interested in pricing out what such a 2 color sticker would cost to produce? -Bill ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From rabbi at quickie.net Thu Jul 19 07:53:06 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Divestment? I think not... In-Reply-To: <20010719080321.46954fcc.warthawg@ecpi.com> Message-ID: You are right, but the first order of business is getting Dmitry freed. If we apply pressure to Adobe and get them to drop the charges, his release is almost certain. On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Joe Barr wrote: > > > It seems to me that we are chasing the wrong monster. Adobe is a symptom, > the DMCA is the problem. We should focus more on ways to get it repealed, > rather than work solely to spotlight Adobe's stupidity and greed. Those > two traits are always going to be a part of the human condition, but the > DMCA doesn't have to be. > > See ya, > Joe Barr > > > > On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:48:22 -0400 > David HM Spector wrote: > > > > > Before anyone flames me... read on: > > > > The best way to hurt Adobe for their asinine and short-sighted attacks > > on the software community is make their PR life so painful they have > > no choice but to back down and even apologize. > > > > DO NOT to divest yourself of Adobe stock, but rather hold your stock, > > and if you don't own any, call (or click over to) your broker and buy > > 1 (one) share of Adobe stock. > > > > We as a community of shareholders can file class-action suits against > > the company. The power of a few hundred thousand software developers > > cannot be trifled with --- especially if we keep this event in the > > news. > > > > Next, what we need are a few lawyers (is the EFF listening) who will > > work with all these newly minted Adobe shareholder to (legally -- no > > stupid pet trick, please) hound Adobe's management. > > > > Divenstments don't work -- big companies don't care if you divest > > because the majority of people will NOT divest. They DO care about > > bad press and angry, volcal politically active share-holders. > > > > > > Oh, and of course, you should call you congress-folk can tell them to > > get on teh DoJ/FBI's case about this issue. Congress people a re > > especially afraid of vocal constituents. > > > > .... thoughts? Feedback? > > > > David > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > David HM Spector Network Design & Infrastructure Security > > spector@zeitgeist.com -or- spector@spector.com > > > > Amateur Radio: W2DHM (ARRL life member) > > -.-. --- -. -. . -.-. - .-- .. - .... .- -- .- - . ..- .-. .-. .- -.. .. --- > > Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who > > dare not, are slaves. -George Gordon Noel Byron [a.k.a Lord Byron](1788-1824) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > -- > #====================================================# > # Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! Free Sklyarov! # > #====================================================# > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From dredd at megacity.org Thu Jul 19 08:01:10 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: <00a001c11061$cf2ba260$0100a8c0@sharhan> References: <200107191436.f6JEabH03046@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> <00a001c11061$cf2ba260$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: At 6:47 PM +0400 7/19/01, Ilya V. Vasilyev wrote: >Hi, David HM Spector! > >> Buy 1 share of Adobe stock, then call the shareholder information line and > >Do you know, what you advise? > >Give Adobe money ($xx per each action participant), that >will fund neutralization of our action! Better ask people, >that have Adobe stocks, to share with friends. For the benefit of the Russians among us who may not understand the US stock market so well. :) Buying a share of stock doesn't put any money in Adobe's pocket. Adobe sold its shares years ago, in its initial-public-offering (IPO). They said "We're selling 70% of company, broken up into 30,000,000 pieces, give us $20 each" (or whatever). Now, those shares are strewn in private hands around the world, who've sold what they bought to others, who have in turn sold them, etc. In other words, you put money in the hands of the private-citizen who happens to decide to sell Adobe at the same time you decide to buy Adobe stock. The only way they would "realize profit" is if there were so many people buying single-share purchases that there was actually an "inordinate demand" created for the stock, driving the price up, making the value of their internal holdings (the other 30% of the company in the random-figures-example above) increase. But that's not very likely, on the scale we're talking. d -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From spector at zeitgeist.com Thu Jul 19 08:00:39 2001 From: spector at zeitgeist.com (David HM Spector) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Jul 2001 18:47:54 +0400." <00a001c11061$cf2ba260$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: <200107191500.f6JF0dc03123@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> Actually,it really doesn't give any money to Adobe directly; it gives money to someone who is SELLING Adobe stock, and commissions to the brokers on both sides of the deal. If the stock goes up they have a higher market capitalization. But, the trivialities asiide if 500,000 programmers each bought 1 share, 500,000 share of adobe stock doesn't even make a tiny little dent in Adobe's daily share volume. Of course it would be nice to get current shareholder would give away their stock for this cause, but its not realistic. The bang we get for the buck in being able to launch class action suits more than makes up for it. _DHMS From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Thu Jul 19 08:04:41 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe MUST LOOSE! References: <200107191436.f6JEabH03046@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> <00a001c11061$cf2ba260$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: <00b101c11064$2691fc00$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, All! Adobe must loose! This is what we must remember. To loose money, to loose customers. Stock prices must go down. Those, who can do this legally, must do this in legal way. If number of customers will *increase*, Adobe will win this battle in figures. Then managers will make papers to their bosses "Look, Dmitry Sklyarov scandal added 1,000 of customers" and get more salary this month. Its not uncommon, that scandal can promote corporation, instead of punishing it. Thats why I suggest not to give a single cent to corporation. If you have stocks, sell them or give to 2600 or EFF -- they can be trusted to use stocks against Adobe the most proper way. If you have their products, call their hotline and try to return back your money. Motivate this, you wanted really secure product, and don't want your money to work for hiding Adobe security faults by putting security specialists into jail. Don't buy Adobe products, don't buy Adobe stocks. Return them back -- let Adobe lost money, lost GREAT money. Then kick down Adobe with public actions and black PR! Adobe must loose! Both in customers and money -- if no customers, no money, there will be no Adobe. Good Luck! Arvi the Hacker (AtH//UgF@hMoscow) From sonjat at cs.unm.edu Thu Jul 19 08:11:49 2001 From: sonjat at cs.unm.edu (Sonja V. Tideman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: <200107191436.f6JEabH03046@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> Message-ID: Hello, Would I actually qualify as a defendent in the lawsuit since my shares were bought after Adobe committed the action that spawned the lawsuit? (I have no idea about this) Also, I would like to make this as public as possible. I think the way to do that is having as many people as possible giving demonstrations in as many places as possible. I would be happy to coordinate a demonstration for the Denver area if there is enough interest Sonja On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, David HM Spector wrote: > > > Buy 1 share of Adobe stock, then call the shareholder information line and > tell them you protest adobe's actions. After that, join in with the rest of > us in a shareholder class-action suit against the CEO, Chairman and the board > of directors. > > _DHMS > > > From spector at zeitgeist.com Thu Jul 19 08:24:59 2001 From: spector at zeitgeist.com (David HM Spector) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Divestment? I think not... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Jul 2001 07:53:06 PDT." Message-ID: <200107191524.f6JFOxR03207@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> >You are right, but the first order of business is getting Dmitry freed. If >we apply pressure to Adobe and get them to drop the charges, his release >is almost certain. That is indeed a VERY good goal... HOWEVER, its out of the hands of "the rest of us" and firmly in the hands of his family, his lawyers and the EFF. In fact, too much noise on the part of well-intentioned activists will most likely harden the resolve of the DoJ/FBI and the judge in the case and guarantee that he remains incarcerated. A better stragegy is the turn up the heat on Adobe and other companies that are using the DMCA by making the environment too painful for them. The best way, as said when starting this thread, is to hurt them with the once voice they listen to: the shareholder. As for all of the other, very traditional prtest mechanisms that people are suggesting, I think that they should wake up and smell the media boredom. This ain't the 1960s. The media -- who owns large stakes in a lot of these companies -- are on to those tricks and could care less about our .sig lines, our cutsey-politically-active bumper-stickers and our quaint righteous indignation. I couldn't but it better than the master himself, Tom Lehrer... _DHMS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Thu Jul 19 08:26:36 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest References: <200107191500.f6JF0dc03123@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> Message-ID: <00ec01c11067$36df8a20$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, David! > The bang we get for the buck in being able to launch class action suits > more than makes up for it. You are right, I'm not good in US stock market. And may be, I don't know, is it good for Adobe to increase number of stockholders. But I know, that if you buy stocks, you loose money. Its good, if they are used to fund FREE DMITRY movement. But that money aren't go to that movement, they are simply lost. A person can't donate infinite sum of money to help other individual. Thats why we will have less posters, stickers, etc. If I were you, I would buy Adobe stocks only if 2600 or EFF will officially ask people to do this. Then I will join many other stockholders, layers will use my vote to defend Dmitry, and my money willn't be lost. May be even better to give stock money to EFF -- they will buy out a packet of stocks or spend money on other important things, i.e. on Dmitry advocate or phone calls to motherland. Good Luck! Arvi the Hacker (AtH//UgF@hMoscow) From spector at zeitgeist.com Thu Jul 19 08:30:02 2001 From: spector at zeitgeist.com (David HM Spector) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Divestment? I think not... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:05:41 EDT." <20010719110541.G889@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <200107191530.f6JFU2F03237@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> Declan, You of all people should know (and I know you do..) that congress doesn't listen to us sheeple. They listen to Adobe, the MPAA and the rest of the un-indicted felons who bought and paid for these laws. Of course we should ALL call our congress-critters (I've already been burning the wires between Long Island and DC) and whine as loudly (and politely) as possible, but the best way to change this deplorable situation is to work on geting Adobe et al back down... ...the congress will follow. David From xyz at kalifornia.com Thu Jul 19 08:36:12 2001 From: xyz at kalifornia.com (xyz@kalifornia.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda In-Reply-To: <00b101c11064$2691fc00$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: Personally I think the T-Shirts are nice, the use of the Russian symbology would turn many away. However adding "Adobe " relating to them and using their same encryptiuon algorithm in the letters would be amusing. -A From esper at sherohman.org Thu Jul 19 08:38:03 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: ; from sonjat@cs.unm.edu on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 09:11:49AM -0600 References: <200107191436.f6JEabH03046@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> Message-ID: <20010719103802.G19001@sherohman.org> On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 09:11:49AM -0600, Sonja V. Tideman wrote: > Hello, > Would I actually qualify as a defendent in the lawsuit since my shares > were bought after Adobe committed the action that spawned the lawsuit? (I > have no idea about this) Not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, etc. In general, shareholders are not liable for the actions of a corporation unless they are actively involved in directing its actions (e.g., corporate officers). As the holder of a small number of shares, you are at no risk beyond the possible loss of the price you paid for those shares. From larsg at eurorights.org Thu Jul 19 08:40:08 2001 From: larsg at eurorights.org (Lars Gaarden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe MUST LOOSE! References: <200107191436.f6JEabH03046@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> <00a001c11061$cf2ba260$0100a8c0@sharhan> <00b101c11064$2691fc00$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: <3B56FF58.1050505@eurorights.org> Ilya V. Vasilyev wrote: > Adobe must loose! > > This is what we must remember. To loose money, to loose > customers. Stock prices must go down. Those, who can > do this legally, must do this in legal way. What would really hurt them, would be a class-action lawsuit from publishers and other companies that believed Adobe's claims that the eBook format was safe. A number of publishers suing for damage might cost Adobe a lot more in cash and good-will than anything a boycot by us nerds and hackers can achieve. -- "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead. From esper at sherohman.org Thu Jul 19 08:43:31 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DefCon presentation Message-ID: <20010719104331.H19001@sherohman.org> I've seen Dmitry's presentation scattered around a few sites in Powerpoint format. Does anyone have an HTML version or the ability to produce one? (If none of the existing sites are interested in hosting an HTML version, I can offer a server, but it's at the back end of a flaky DSL link, so it wouldn't provide a whole lot in the way of bandwidth or reliability.) From bill at scannell.org Thu Jul 19 08:47:46 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DefCon presentation In-Reply-To: <20010719104331.H19001@sherohman.org> Message-ID: We'll slap it up at BoycottAdobe. on 19.7.01 10:43, Dave Sherohman at esper@sherohman.org wrote: > I've seen Dmitry's presentation scattered around a few sites in > Powerpoint format. Does anyone have an HTML version or the ability > to produce one? (If none of the existing sites are interested in > hosting an HTML version, I can offer a server, but it's at the back > end of a flaky DSL link, so it wouldn't provide a whole lot in the > way of bandwidth or reliability.) > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From karl.deabrew at binarything.com Thu Jul 19 08:59:11 2001 From: karl.deabrew at binarything.com (Karl De Abrew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DefCon presentation Message-ID: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F585@mail.roundtable.com.au> We have a PDF version posted here at: ElcomSoft's DefCon 9 Presentation [PDF: 396 kb] http://www.planetpdf.com/planetpdf/pdfs/defcon9_elcomsoft.pdf It's also linked from our index page at http://www.planetebook.com/usvsklyarov -Karl > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Sherohman [mailto:esper@sherohman.org] > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 1:44 AM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: [free-sklyarov] DefCon presentation > > > I've seen Dmitry's presentation scattered around a few sites in > Powerpoint format. Does anyone have an HTML version or the ability > to produce one? (If none of the existing sites are interested in > hosting an HTML version, I can offer a server, but it's at the back > end of a flaky DSL link, so it wouldn't provide a whole lot in the > way of bandwidth or reliability.) > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From dredd at megacity.org Thu Jul 19 08:59:23 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: <20010719103802.G19001@sherohman.org> References: <200107191436.f6JEabH03046@thx1138.ny.zeitgeist.com> <20010719103802.G19001@sherohman.org> Message-ID: At 10:38 AM -0500 7/19/01, Dave Sherohman wrote: >On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 09:11:49AM -0600, Sonja V. Tideman wrote: >> Hello, >> Would I actually qualify as a defendent in the lawsuit since my shares >> were bought after Adobe committed the action that spawned the lawsuit? (I >> have no idea about this) > >Not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, etc. > >In general, shareholders are not liable for the actions of a corporation >unless they are actively involved in directing its actions (e.g., corporate >officers). As the holder of a small number of shares, you are at no risk >beyond the possible loss of the price you paid for those shares. Actually, I think the question was misworded. I think he meant "If I buy the shares after the action I'm complaining about, how can I claim an aggrieved status as a plaintiff under a class action, when I should have done my due diligence before buying the stock". A very good question. d -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From Barmenkov at bpc.ru Thu Jul 19 08:52:09 2001 From: Barmenkov at bpc.ru (Barmenkov Denis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DefCon presentation Message-ID: <01BB80B981CFD4119BD2000021FE1B1012AAFE@BLADE> I've send entire presentation, grabbed in GIF format, to Dave Sherohman [mailto:esper@sherohman.org] Because there are near 500k, I can't send it into forum. So, Dave can placed it on its server. Denis Barmenkov > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Sherohman [mailto:esper@sherohman.org] > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 7:44 PM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: [free-sklyarov] DefCon presentation > > > I've seen Dmitry's presentation scattered around a few sites in > Powerpoint format. Does anyone have an HTML version or the ability > to produce one? (If none of the existing sites are interested in > hosting an HTML version, I can offer a server, but it's at the back > end of a flaky DSL link, so it wouldn't provide a whole lot in the > way of bandwidth or reliability.) > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From drumz at best.com Thu Jul 19 08:58:34 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: from "Sonja V. Tideman" at "Jul 19, 1 08:02:32 am" Message-ID: <200107191558.IAA03837@shell3.ba.best.com> Sonja writes: > Hello, > I live near the Denver area and was wondering what I could do to > help. This arrest absolutely infuriates, and makes me ashamed to be > American. I have never had to say that before, but now it is true. Welcome to the club! Ethan ;) -- "What are politicians going to tell people when the Constitution is gone and we still have a drug problem?" -- William Simpson From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 09:02:37 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe MUST LOOSE! In-Reply-To: <3B56FF58.1050505@eurorights.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Lars Gaarden wrote: > What would really hurt them, would be a class-action lawsuit from > publishers and other companies that believed Adobe's claims that the > eBook format was safe. A number of publishers suing for damage might > cost Adobe a lot more in cash and good-will than anything a boycot by > us nerds and hackers can achieve. It's exactly this kind of thinking that keeps corporate America in charge. We 'nerds and hackers' are their life-blood. We keep their systems doing what their systems should do. A walk-out would be INCREDIBLY effective. How many people here know folks at their work who simply CAN'T be fired (and certainly not en masse) because of the specialized knowledge they carry? How many "undocumented features" have we got in our heads that keep our companies running? Geeks of today have more power than the masons and shriners of the middle ages... our knowledge is more arcane and our influence over daily life is greater. We could turn that power over society into a power for real change! J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From drumz at best.com Thu Jul 19 09:06:58 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Stickers/Slogan In-Reply-To: from Bill Scannell at "Jul 19, 1 09:51:44 am" Message-ID: <200107191606.JAA06798@shell3.ba.best.com> Bill writes: > Bumper stickers are fine, but what we really need are true mime-producing > implements. Noooo! Memes I can see. The last thing we need is more mimes. > Anyone interested in pricing out what such a 2 color sticker would cost to > produce? iprint.com did 1000 gorgeous, custom Burning Man stickers for me at about $.10 apiece. Ethan -- "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws." -- Tacitus, Annals III 27 From ssteele at eff.org Thu Jul 19 09:17:13 2001 From: ssteele at eff.org (Shari Steele) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought for a slogan In-Reply-To: <001b01c1105e$ca1c3120$7f603c04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.1.20010719091357.02fb5e20@pop3.spa.norton.antivirus> Hi all. EFF has a bumper sticker that says "Coding Is Not a Crime" that we would be happy to make available for distribution. I'm not sure how many we have, but we do have some. We also have a large quantity of "Science Is Not a Crime" available. Shari At 07:26 AM 7/19/01 -0700, Jay Schneider wrote: >Hi All, > >I've been trying to come up with a soundbite/catch phrase that describes the >problem. Can I suggest: > >"Writing Code is not a Crime!" > >or more simply > >"Code is not a Crime" > >It seems to sing and IMHO describes the root of the problem. Well, at least >one of the roots of one of the problems. Hopefully, it'll make people think >and provide a favorable starting point for describing the problem to both >the masses and tech workers. If you like it use it! > >Jay Schneider > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov ~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~ Shari Steele Executive Director ssteele@eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation +1 415 436 9333 x103 (voice) 454 Shotwell Street +1 415 436 9993 (fax) San Francisco, CA 94110 From travel at elcomsoft.com Thu Jul 19 09:09:18 2001 From: travel at elcomsoft.com (Vladimir Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From Vladimir In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2651825671.20010719200918@elcomsoft.com> Hello all, That's Vladimir Katalov here. I'm a managing director of ElcomSoft, now in US, trying to help Dmitry. Thank you all, guys! -- Best regards, Vladimir mailto:travel@elcomsoft.com From esper at sherohman.org Thu Jul 19 09:09:04 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DefCon presentation In-Reply-To: ; from bill@scannell.org on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 10:47:46AM -0500 References: <20010719104331.H19001@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20010719110904.J19001@sherohman.org> On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 10:47:46AM -0500, Bill Scannell wrote: > We'll slap it up at BoycottAdobe. Cool. For a first cut, I'd suggest just linking to the PDF version at planetpdf, but if anyone has a decent ppt-to-html or pdf-to-html converter, I think that it would be good to get something in straight HTML - it's small, cross-platform, universally recognized, and about as open a format as you can get. If it comes down to it, I have crude tools for extracting text from PDFs, but they trash formatting. (ISTR that Office2k's version of Powerpoint can do 'save as HTML', which would probably be the most effective translation method.) From proclus at iname.com Thu Jul 19 08:14:53 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (Michael L. Love) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Divestment? I think not... References: Message-ID: <3B56F96D.4070805@iname.com> > Declan, > > You of all people should know (and I know you do..) that congress doesn't > listen to us sheeple. They listen to Adobe, the MPAA and the rest of > the un-indicted felons who bought and paid for these laws. No, although this is true under some circumstances, we will have enough people coming on board in this case to employ all reasonable means against Adobe. Please don't be discouraging. > > Of course we should ALL call our congress-critters (I've already been burning > the wires between Long Island and DC) and whine as loudly (and politely) > as possible, but the best way to change this deplorable > situation is to work on geting Adobe et al back down... > ...the congress will follow. Again, this is one valid strategy. Others will be employing other means so that we can crush from all sides. Many people can do many different things. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > > > David > > > > > > > -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From proclus at iname.com Thu Jul 19 08:19:08 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:00:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From Vladimir In-Reply-To: <2651825671.20010719200918@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: <200107191519.LAA12168@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> On 19 Jul, Vladimir Katalov wrote: > Hello all, > > That's Vladimir Katalov here. I'm a managing director of ElcomSoft, > now in US, trying to help Dmitry. > > Thank you all, guys! > Wonderful! I'm concerned about Dmitry's family. Will they be OK? Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From travel at elcomsoft.com Thu Jul 19 09:18:22 2001 From: travel at elcomsoft.com (Vladimir Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From Vladimir In-Reply-To: <200107191519.LAA12168@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> References: <200107191519.LAA12168@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <18352369563.20010719201822@elcomsoft.com> Hello proclus, pic> Wonderful! I'm concerned about Dmitry's family. Will they be OK? I hope... Of course they really worry about him, because FBI/police didn't allow Dmit to talk to his family. -- Best regards, Vladimir mailto:travel@elcomsoft.com From batout at ofhell.org Thu Jul 19 09:21:15 2001 From: batout at ofhell.org (bat out of hell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A different angle In-Reply-To: ; from jeme@brelin.net on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 09:02:37AM -0700 References: <3B56FF58.1050505@eurorights.org> Message-ID: <20010719112115.A14650@ofhell.org> On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Lars Gaarden wrote: > What would really hurt them, would be a class-action lawsuit from > publishers and other companies that believed Adobe's claims that the > eBook format was safe. A number of publishers suing for damage might > cost Adobe a lot more in cash and good-will than anything a boycot by > us nerds and hackers can achieve. Well this might sound silly, but this is the angle I'm going to try. I'm currently a rabid fan of the author George R. R. Martin. I buy multiple copies of his books, in hardback and paperback. I don't know if his books are available in e-book format, and I guess it really doesn't matter. When you get right down to it, his publisher is making a lot of money off me, and other fans that are just as dedicated as I am. Yes, this has a point, which I'm getting to shortly. Mr. Martin's publisher makes a lot of money off me. I am going to write to his publisher, as a dedicated consumer of their product, and request that they will not support Adobe's ebook technology. I'm going to explain the situation in a rational manner, and diplomatically point out that I don't wish my favorite author to be hurt, by either Adobe's complete lack of security, or by an Adobe boycott. To illustrate the importance of people like me to the publishing industry, I'm going to dig up a few Barnes & Noble receipts and attach those along with my letter. (Yeah, I'm actually gonna do the pen and paper thing.) I don't know profitable eBooks are to publishers. If I like an author as much as I like George Martin, I go out and buy two copies of each of his books in hardback: one to read, the other to wrap in plastic and save. When the paperbacks are released, I purchase two copies: one to lend, and one to reread and dogear and make notes in. I don't want to buy books in electronic format. I'm a computer nerd, yeah, but it's so much more satisfying to me, to read a book the old fashioned way. I think there may be a lot of geeks who agree with me. If we're the ones the publishers are targetting eBooks at, and we aren't using it? Who knows, they may listen. Without fanatic book lovers like me, the publishers wouldn't be in business... and they're aware of this. In any case, we have a better chance of publishers listening to us, than we do of Adobe listening to us. And the publishers have a better chance of Adobe listening to them, than we do. So, that's *my* plan... if anyone wants to follow suit, hopefully we might see results. Sorry about my verbosity :) -Sally From proclus at iname.com Thu Jul 19 08:31:47 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From Vladimir In-Reply-To: <18352369563.20010719201822@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: <200107191531.LAA12175@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> On 19 Jul, Vladimir Katalov wrote: > Hello proclus, > > pic> Wonderful! I'm concerned about Dmitry's family. Will they be OK? > > I hope... Maybe we can arrange something more than hope here somehow. > Of course they really worry about him, because FBI/police > didn't allow Dmit to talk to his family. > That is simply deplorable. I'm aghast. If you get in touch with them, please send along the love and encouragement of the people here. Hopefully, we can put an end to their ordeal soon. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From proclus at iname.com Thu Jul 19 08:41:22 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A different angle In-Reply-To: <20010719112115.A14650@ofhell.org> Message-ID: <200107191541.LAA12180@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> On 19 Jul, bat out of hell wrote: > On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Lars Gaarden wrote: >> What would really hurt them, would be a class-action lawsuit from >> publishers and other companies that believed Adobe's claims that the >> eBook format was safe. A number of publishers suing for damage might >> cost Adobe a lot more in cash and good-will than anything a boycot by >> us nerds and hackers can achieve. > > Well this might sound silly, but this is the angle I'm going to try. Hey, maybe that is not such a silly idea. Adobe is trying to deprive their customers of their fair use rights. Moreover, isn't there an argument to be made such that personal property like eBooks trumps Adobe's so-called intellectual property rights? What Dmitry did probably is illegal under DMCA, but in such a case, the enforcement would also be illegal and to greater harm. Hey, clearly I'm no lawyer... Just an attempt at some common sense here. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > > I'm currently a rabid fan of the author George R. R. Martin. I buy multiple copies of his books, in hardback and paperback. I don't know if his books are available in e-book format, and I guess it really doesn't matter. When you get right down to it, his publisher is making a lot of money off me, and other fans that are just as dedicated as I am. > > Yes, this has a point, which I'm getting to shortly. > > Mr. Martin's publisher makes a lot of money off me. I am going to write to his publisher, as a dedicated consumer of their product, and request that they will not support Adobe's ebook technology. I'm going to explain the situation in a rational manner, and diplomatically point out that I don't wish my favorite author to be hurt, by either Adobe's complete lack of security, or by an Adobe boycott. To illustrate the importance of people like me to the publishing industry, I'm going to dig up a few Barnes & Noble receipts and attach those along with my letter. (Yeah, I'm actually gonna do the pen and paper thing.) > > I don't know profitable eBooks are to publishers. If I like an author as much as I like George Martin, I go out and buy two copies of each of his books in hardback: one to read, the other to wrap in plastic and save. When the paperbacks are released, I purchase two copies: one to lend, and one to reread and dogear and make notes in. I don't want to buy books in electronic format. I'm a computer nerd, yeah, but it's so much more satisfying to me, to read a book the old fashioned way. I think there may be a lot of geeks who agree with me. If we're the ones the publishers are targetting eBooks at, and we aren't using it? Who knows, they may listen. Without fanatic book lovers like me, the publishers wouldn't be in business... and they're aware of this. > > In any case, we have a better chance of publishers listening to us, than we do of Adobe listening to us. And the publishers have a better chance of Adobe listening to them, than we do. > > So, that's *my* plan... if anyone wants to follow suit, hopefully we might see results. Sorry about my verbosity :) > > -Sally > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Thu Jul 19 09:46:39 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From Vladimir References: <2651825671.20010719200918@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: <01a901c11072$670b1420$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, Vladimir! > That's Vladimir Katalov here. I'm a managing director of ElcomSoft, > now in US, trying to help Dmitry. Glad to hear from you. I'm AtH, that helped 2600 to make Free Kevin Demonstration in Moscow. Are there availiable "official" press-releases on Russian or we should send to newspapers some texts of our own? Is it clear the major points of defence, that we must strike in letters to public? As for now, have Dmitry some advocate or layer in States? I prefer actions, coordinated by responsible and competent person. If you want something to be done in Moscow, just say it. We can translate texts in both sides, organize press-conference and actions. People advice to spread flyers in Duma and Foreign Ministry, search people there... - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From wendy at seltzer.com Thu Jul 19 09:45:40 2001 From: wendy at seltzer.com (Wendy Seltzer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DefCon presentation In-Reply-To: <20010719110904.J19001@sherohman.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 10:47:46AM -0500, Bill Scannell wrote: > > We'll slap it up at BoycottAdobe. > > Cool. For a first cut, I'd suggest just linking to the PDF version > at planetpdf, but if anyone has a decent ppt-to-html or pdf-to-html > converter, I think that it would be good to get something in straight > HTML - it's small, cross-platform, universally recognized, and about > as open a format as you can get. Of course, there's a nice irony in posting in PDF. (And Adobe and their supporters in the US Gov't would claim that if we encrypted that, it would still be illegal for us to distribute a program to decrypt it.) --Wendy From xyz at kalifornia.com Thu Jul 19 10:02:39 2001 From: xyz at kalifornia.com (xyz@kalifornia.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From Vladimir In-Reply-To: <01a901c11072$670b1420$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: > I'm AtH, that helped 2600 to make Free Kevin Demonstration > in Moscow. Are there availiable "official" press-releases > on Russian or we should send to newspapers some texts > of our own? In the states, it would be best to write directly to the newspapers, a single organized well thought out statement and stick to it. > Is it clear the major points of defence, that we must strike > in letters to public? As for now, have Dmitry some advocate > or layer in States? I prefer actions, coordinated by > responsible and competent person. The ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) would love to get a stab at this. http://www.aclu.org, I'm sure you could get some assistance however they would greatly appreciate a donation. -A From sonjat at cs.unm.edu Thu Jul 19 10:04:37 2001 From: sonjat at cs.unm.edu (Sonja V. Tideman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Derek Balling wrote: > > Actually, I think the question was misworded. I think he meant "If I > buy the shares after the action I'm complaining about, how can I > claim an aggrieved status as a plaintiff under a class action, when I > should have done my due diligence before buying the stock". > > A very good question. > > d I suppose there is a reason I am not a lawyer :-) That is exactly what I meant, but I worded it completely wrong. Thanks > > -- > +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ > | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | > | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | > | | driven before you, and to hear the | > | | lamentation of their women!" | > +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From karl.deabrew at binarything.com Thu Jul 19 10:04:39 2001 From: karl.deabrew at binarything.com (Karl De Abrew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Photo of Dmitry Message-ID: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F591@mail.roundtable.com.au> If you'd like to see a photo of Dmitry head to http://www.planetebook.com/ -Karl From fred1 at inebraska.com Thu Jul 19 10:09:04 2001 From: fred1 at inebraska.com (Gary L. Dolan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From Vladimir References: <200107191531.LAA12175@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <3B571430.88A3416F@inebraska.com> > > On 19 Jul, Vladimir Katalov wrote: > > Hello proclus, > > > > pic> Wonderful! I'm concerned about Dmitry's family. Will they be OK? > > > > I hope... > > Maybe we can arrange something more than hope here somehow. > > > Of course they really worry about him, because FBI/police > > didn't allow Dmit to talk to his family. > > > > That is simply deplorable. I'm aghast. If you get in touch with them, > please send along the love and encouragement of the people here. > Hopefully, we can put an end to their ordeal soon. Remember that the Dept. of Justice and the FBI have no sense of proportion or limits (just recall Wen Ho Lee) so it really is important to pursue this quickly and diligently. I think we could also consider contacts with our Congressional representatives, being careful to be non-hysterical and factual (hyperbole is not helpful). We might give some thought to a possible approach to the Leary committee staff, since it is holding hearings on the FBI presently. Just some thoughts. -- Gary L. Dolan Debian GNU/Linux 2.2, kernel 2.4.6 FreeBSD 4.3 STABLE From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 10:09:32 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <87g0bs7smr.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "DB" == Derek Balling writes: DB> DMCA violations are something the people "don't understand", DB> by and large. Around HERE, in our cloistered little high tech DB> environs, there may be a larger-than-normal understanding, but DB> the masses don't understand it all. The point is very, very simple: FAIR USE. "Fair use" means that if you buy something, you get to use it however you want. If you buy a newspaper, you can use it to line your birdcage. If you buy a book, you can give it to your Mom to read. If you buy a piece of software, you can make a backup. If you buy an electronic book, you can change the font so it doesn't hurt your eyes. People understand "fair." People understand "computer files." People understand "my computer, my files." People understand "a man is in jail unfairly." Down to the specifics: 1. Adobe Inc. wants to take away YOUR rights to use files you paid for, on YOUR computer, as you see fit. They don't trust you to be honest, so they use software to take away as many of your rights as they can. 2. A programmer from Russia named Dmitry Sklyarov figured out how to stop Adobe from doing this. 3. Because of a misguided law called the DMCA, someone who writes software that protects your rights as a consumer can go to jail. 4. When he was visiting the U.S. for a conference, Adobe asked the FBI to put him in jail, which they did. 5. And we think that's unfair. 6. So we want Dmitry Sklyarov out of jail immediately. 7. And we want the DMCA repealed. Jeez, man, this is --waaaaay-- simpler than Mumia Abu Jamal. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From xyz at kalifornia.com Thu Jul 19 10:19:23 2001 From: xyz at kalifornia.com (xyz@kalifornia.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3B571430.88A3416F@inebraska.com> Message-ID: Case highlights law's threat to fair-use rights Silicon Valley, 7/19/2001 http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/opinion/dgillmor/dg071801.htm The music industry is no longer threatening computer science professor Ed Felten with civil lawsuits for his research into one of the industry's digital copy-protection schemes. He doesn't have the same assurance, however, that the United States government won't launch a criminal prosecution if he proceeds. That uncertainty grew more pronounced this week when the FBI arrested a visiting Russian computer scientist Monday in Las Vegas, charging him with violating the 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act by distributing software that cracked a system for encrypting electronic books. It was one of the first criminal prosecutions under a bad law that was designed to protect copyright owners from unauthorized copying but is having all kinds of other negative effects. Before I explain why Felten feels more jeopardy than ever as a result of his efforts to publish scholarly research, you need to understand some background as well as what happened to the Russian programmer. The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), a gift to the well-financed entertainment and software industries, trashed the public interest. It gave copyright owners the right to assert absolute control over copyrighted material, effectively allowing them to prevent the public from asserting a variety of traditional user's rights, including the ``fair use'' of making personal copies. In this week's case, Adobe Systems sicced the cops on the Russian programmer, Dmitry Sklyarov, who'd written and was selling software that broke Adobe's encryption method for the Acrobat software it uses for what it calls eBooks. Sklyarov, in Las Vegas at a security conference, was arrested after giving a talk on -- you guessed it -- security measures in electronic books. The DMCA makes it a crime to ``manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component or part thereof'' that ``is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof.'' Hollywood, the music industry and software companies have used this breathtakingly broad measure to file a variety of civil lawsuits. The recording companies' threats against Felten and his colleagues were part of a campaign to keep software that breaks encryption, no matter how feeble the encryption method is in the first place, out of circulation. It's as if we outlawed cars on the principle that they could be used to help crooks escape from bank robberies. Please understand what's at stake here -- some fundamental and traditional rights. Software that breaks encryption schemes is not, by itself, a certain sign that its purpose is to help people make illegal copies. We have the right to make personal copies of copyrighted works. That's fair use, and fair use is enshrined in our law. Sklyarov's company, ElcomSoft (www.elcomsoft.com), says its software has entirely legitimate uses. People who have purchased eBook files can convert the files to a format that can be read on types of computers not currently supported by Adobe's eBook Reader software, for example. The company, on its Web site, also offers scathing criticism of Adobe's encryption methods, saying they are inherently weak. For its part, Adobe seems to see only the piracy potential in such code-breaking software. In the process, Adobe is asserting the right to prevent people from making fair-use rights with electronic books they buy. Hollywood and the record industry insist on the same restrictive control over digital versions of the works they own. OK, back to Felten, who teaches at Princeton University. He ran afoul of the DMCA earlier this year. He and other researchers had taken up the music industry's challenge to break a digital watermarking scheme that was under consideration for CDs and other digitally recorded music. They easily defeated the watermarking system, and prepared to describe their results at an academic conference. But the music industry -- specifically, a consortium that has come up with the watermarking idea in the first place -- and a software company that had worked on the system threatened the researchers, citing the DMCA, leading them to withdraw their paper. Felten and his colleagues then filed suit, asking a federal judge in New Jersey to specifically allow them to publish -- to allow them their First Amendment rights -- and declare the DMCA unconstitutional. The industry and software company, no doubt realizing their blunder, have sent letters to the judge, promising they won't sue even if the paper is published. But the U.S. Justice Department, also a defendant in the Felten suit, hasn't responded. And after Tuesday's arrest, it's no wonder that Felten -- and programmers and researchers everywhere -- should be feeling considerably more nervous. A federal prosecutor in San Jose told me Tuesday that the law under which was Sklyarov charged wouldn't apply in Felten's case, but why should he take the risk? So, under the DMCA, it's a crime to spread the word about technology that maintains your fair-use rights. One of these days, it may be a crime to talk about anything that displeases the control freaks who run the entertainment and software industries. From robert at infoserf.net Thu Jul 19 10:27:04 2001 From: robert at infoserf.net (Robert Lemos) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <87g0bs7smr.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <3B571868.822977FE@infoserf.net> Klepht: This issue here is not that Adobe wants to take away your rights, but that your rights have already been curtailed as appled to digital media by the DMCA. While IANAL (but I do cover this area), in Universal v. Reimerez et al., the court ruled that the Fair Use provisions in the Audio Home Recording Act do not trump the DMCA, but just the opposite. That Congress, in passing the DMCA, decided to apply the fair use provisions in a narrower context, so in passing the DMCA, Congress essentially decided -- whether it was their intent or not -- to reduce the fair-use rights of citizens. Not to make excuses for Adobe, but the company is just using one of the available tools out there to reduce competition in the market for their products. That's what business is all about. They have a right to do that under the law. While the bad publicity, may get them to withdraw from the case, which could -- and I repeat, could -- cause the DOJ to drop the case (since their main witness would be gone), that still leaves the fair-use restrictions of the DMCA in place. As unfeeling as this may sound, it would seem to me that the best interest of citizens would be served if all three cases -- Universal v. Reimerez et al., Felton v. RIAA et al. and U.S. DOJ v. Sklyarov -- got tried, went to appeal and then ended up in front of the Supreme court. In no other way, except if Congress passes a law that trumps the DMCA, will the domain of the fair-use provisions be expanded. -R --- Robert Lemos Technical writer Klepht wrote: > > >>>>> "DB" == Derek Balling writes: > > DB> DMCA violations are something the people "don't understand", > DB> by and large. Around HERE, in our cloistered little high tech > DB> environs, there may be a larger-than-normal understanding, but > DB> the masses don't understand it all. > > The point is very, very simple: FAIR USE. "Fair use" means that if you > buy something, you get to use it however you want. If you buy a > newspaper, you can use it to line your birdcage. If you buy a book, > you can give it to your Mom to read. If you buy a piece of software, > you can make a backup. If you buy an electronic book, you can change > the font so it doesn't hurt your eyes. > > People understand "fair." People understand "computer files." People > understand "my computer, my files." People understand "a man is in > jail unfairly." > > Down to the specifics: > > 1. Adobe Inc. wants to take away YOUR rights to use files you paid > for, on YOUR computer, as you see fit. They don't trust you to be > honest, so they use software to take away as many of your rights as > they can. > > 2. A programmer from Russia named Dmitry Sklyarov figured out how to > stop Adobe from doing this. > > 3. Because of a misguided law called the DMCA, someone who writes > software that protects your rights as a consumer can go to jail. > > 4. When he was visiting the U.S. for a conference, Adobe asked the FBI > to put him in jail, which they did. > > 5. And we think that's unfair. > > 6. So we want Dmitry Sklyarov out of jail immediately. > > 7. And we want the DMCA repealed. > > Jeez, man, this is --waaaaay-- simpler than Mumia Abu Jamal. > > ~Klepht > > -- > klepht@eleutheria.org > http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- From dmarti at zgp.org Thu Jul 19 10:39:03 2001 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] San Jose Monday: schedule and directions Message-ID: <20010719103903.A8245@zgp.org> This is a summary of the plans for the demonstration at Adobe that we discussed at the meeting last night. We agreed to meet at the park and walk to Adobe together, and the snake is an obvious meeting place that is close to, but out of line of sight from, Adobe HQ. Free Dmitry March on Adobe Monday, July 23, 2001, 11AM-1PM Downtown San Jose, California, USA MEET AT THE SNAKE: We will be meeting in downtown San Jose at the snake sculpture, Quetzalcoatl, which is at the south end of Cesar de Chavez Park, at the corner of South Market St. and West San Carlos St. Cesar de Chavez Park is across San Carlos from the Hyatt St. Claire Hotel, near the San Jose Convention Center. From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 10:49:42 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <3B571868.822977FE@infoserf.net> References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <87g0bs7smr.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <3B571868.822977FE@infoserf.net> Message-ID: <87ae207qrt.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "RL" == Robert Lemos writes: RL> Klepht: This issue here is not that Adobe wants to take away RL> your rights, but that your rights have already been curtailed RL> as appled to digital media by the DMCA. Robert, Sorry, I was intentionally dumbing down the issue to point out that it can be easily understood by most people. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From nutter at technologist.com Thu Jul 19 11:00:14 2001 From: nutter at technologist.com (Emerson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Need banner! Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010719120014.01bf38e0@pop.freeserve.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Folks, Is there a banner or little button somewhere which can be put on a www page? I think we should stick one on Packetstorm, as if sklyarov goes to sing sing, then Packetstorm is potentially in serious trouble too for good and obvious reasons. Let me know, small and inoffensive is best. Emerson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBO1cgLbAwpha8VR2jEQJj7QCgvD6tbptDvcd2KI/HZvNq1UbjXZQAoLv6 D6ndKHKyO7mCQM6wd2CIzT7y =arZn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --- "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw Emerson : Project Director, www.PacketstormSecurity.org upsetting the easily distressed since 1975! et@c4i.org ICQ UIN: 13396569, PGP Key available, just ask. From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 11:02:11 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: References: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F55F@mail.roundtable.com.au> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719110024.03d78690@pop3.norton.antivirus> Hey Sonja, It would be great if you could drum up a protest in Denver as well. Folks from other cities who can protest, please email help-sklyarov@eff.org or this list and we can get you sample protest materials as soon as they are available. Please let us know if you are going to protest, so that we can maximize public attention (media coverage) of the issue. Thanks, Will Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 08:02 AM 7/19/2001 -0600, Sonja V. Tideman wrote: >Hello, > I live near the Denver area and was wondering what I could do to >help. This arrest absolutely infuriates, and makes me ashamed to be >American. I have never had to say that before, but now it is true. I >know Denver does not have the IT population of the Bay Area, but there are >a lot of IT workers here and I was thinking that perhaps we could have a >protest outside one of the federal buildings here as well. I would like >to do something. > > >Thanks > Sonja > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From car77 at web.de Thu Jul 19 11:04:20 2001 From: car77 at web.de (B. Trueger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] lawyer, diplomatic counsel, etc References: Message-ID: <005001c1107d$3cc05a80$5149d1d5@critical> I am jumping in to find out if D. Sklyarov already has a capable lawyer. Has he made contact with his embassy for legal advice? Is he allowed to contact agencies and organisations like EFF or wired ? Currently in the media (here in Germany) is the story that the US authorities "like" to forget about declaring the rights an arrested alien has in their country (which means contact to his embassy and such). Reading here that even his family is cut off from contact, it sound to me that this might by another case like it. Can someone light up on this question? ---[car77@web.de]---[Fax/Voice via email +49-1212-511-03-06-94]-------[snip]--- From noring at olagrande.net Thu Jul 19 11:08:20 2001 From: noring at olagrande.net (noring@olagrande.net) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Proposal -- Start an Online Petition Drive Regarding Sklyarov Arrest Message-ID: <200107191808.NAA02207@og1.olagrande.net> Hello, As one who helped with the anti-CDA petition drive a few years ago which got about 130,000 signatures, I propose that we start an online petition drive concerning Sklyarov, Adobe and/or the DMCA. (I recall there being at least one web site for the purpose of running online petitions so we could use such a service or simply put a web form up somewhere -- I prefer the former.) Of course, we need to decide upon: 1) Does it make any sense to devote energy to it? 2) If so, what should be the wording of the petition statement? Who and what should it be focused towards? 3) How do we promote the petition to get the general net community interested in it and to e-sign it? Regarding 1), of course I believe it will be useful. It serves three important functions: a) It promotes awareness of the situation and the Big Picture behind it to the general net community (one result is to bring new activists into the battle, as well as the petition alone brings more news media coverage -- this happened with the anti-CDA petition), b) It provides a way for concerned citizens to do *something* (it is easy to sign a petition while for most doing anything more is difficult for whatever reason such as lack of time), and it is well-known that once a person does something, they have psychologically committed themselves to the cause, and will become more aware of this and similar civil liberties issues. c) It is a morale booster (provided the number of signatures is adequate) to those in the trenches fighting the DMCA and the prosecution of Dmitry. Of course, Dmitry himself will be very appreciative since he needs to really know a lot of people out there are on his side. Let me make it clear that the petition is not likely to change the minds of the Feds where they will decide not to prosecute Dmitry (but it will make them aware that many eyes are looking at everything they are doing -- the psychological impact on the DoJ cannot be understated), nor will it sway the courts in their future deliberations regarding Dmitry and DMCA in general (it might sway Adobe's position, though, and might even convince a few Congresspersons to take action to try to defang DMCA through legislation.) However, the benefits of a) to c) above are adequate to justify the effort, in my opinion. Regarding 2), the petition statement wording must be very carefully worded -- concise, non-conspiratorial/non-libelous and moderate in tone, must focus on the important issues, and of course to state something we "all" can agree upon, rather than trying to be too extreme. It must also convey reference sources for the interested person to look up and study the issues surrounding the DMCA before deciding to e-sign the petition. Regarding 3), we certainly need an aggressive campaign to "get out the vote". We will need a couple dozen or more core people to circulate the petition to relevant online forums/ lists/boards/newsgroups etc., and to solicit others to pass it on to their friends and so on. There are probably other ways to promote it as well (geez, if we can get Matt Drudge to report on this petition, we'd get several hundred thousand signatures from that alone!) We also need to decide what we do with all these signatures (of course, we have to ensure email address privacy in some way) once we collect them, and how to maximize the impact of what we did collect. Finally, we need to act and get this out within hours, not days, since we have momentum at the moment, and much interest, but this is fleeting, and we must strike while the iron is hot -- if anything, the petition will keep the momentum going as I observed with the CDA. Since Shari Steele at EFF is a subscriber to this list, hopefully she will weigh in with her thoughts on the pros and cons of this proposed petition drive. If EFF feels it is not a good idea, then I will go along with their view and withdraw my proposal. Jon Noring From bill at scannell.org Thu Jul 19 11:10:38 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattle Protest In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719110024.03d78690@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: I'll be in Seattle on Monday. Is there anyone interested in picketing the Seattle (Freemont) Adobe office? -Bill ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Thu Jul 19 11:12:51 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Russian Consulate in SF References: Message-ID: <3B572323.3D7C056@sheffield.ac.uk> I've just spoken to Vladimir Aleksandrovich Nebyvaev in the Russian Consulati in SF. He is the person that should be contacted regading to this case. His answer is: 1. There was no!! denial from american side for the consulate employees to visit Dmitry. He says such a visit is being planned but since there are lots of bureacratic detailes involved this visit has not take place yet. 2. Russian side has no!! complaints at all regarding the case. Thay say that everything is going according to the federal law and all they can do is to wait. 3. I asked him if there is anything he would advise me (us (in the UK, in the USA and in Moscow)) to undertake. He told me that his opinion is that we can do whatever we want but he does not think it will have any effect. I therefore ask those of you who will take part in any action (against Adobe or any other): be reasonable, do not exaggerate or distort the facts in any way. I'm deeply concerned that it might be even worse for Dmitry after all. Finally, what happened with EFF site. I cannot connect to them. anton --------------------------------------- Anton Chterenlikht Research Assistant Mechanical Engineering Department Sheffield University Mappin Street Sheffield S1 3JD UK Tel: (+) 114 2227863 Fax: (+) 114 2226015 Email: a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk --------------------------------------- From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 11:17:04 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? Message-ID: <87u2086axr.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "RL" == Robert Lemos writes: RL> No apologies necessary. Uh, the "Sorry" meant, "Sorry you read my message so poorly and didn't understand me." It doesn't mean, "I subscribe to your point of view." RL> I just wanted to make the issue clear here before people RL> start thinking getting Adobe to drop the case is the goal. WHAT?! It is _absolutely,_positively_ the goal! The two goals are: 1) Free Dmitry. 2) Overturn the DMCA. Anyone who is opposed to the first one, in order to further the second, should probably start their own "Exploit Dmitry" mailing list. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From esper at sherohman.org Thu Jul 19 11:16:39 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] lawyer, diplomatic counsel, etc In-Reply-To: <005001c1107d$3cc05a80$5149d1d5@critical>; from car77@web.de on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 08:04:20PM +0200 References: <005001c1107d$3cc05a80$5149d1d5@critical> Message-ID: <20010719131639.M19001@sherohman.org> On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 08:04:20PM +0200, B. Trueger wrote: > I am jumping in to find out if D. Sklyarov already has a capable lawyer. The EFF appears to be interested in handling his defense. > Has > he made contact with his embassy for legal advice? Is he allowed to contact > agencies and organisations like EFF or wired ? According to a message by Bill Scannell to this list early this morning, Dmitry has not been allowed contact with the Russian consulate or any other outside agency. It is suspected that the FBI may be holding him in solitary confinement, but, AFAIK, this has not been confirmed. > Currently in the media (here in Germany) is the story that the US > authorities "like" to forget about declaring the rights an arrested alien > has in their country (which means contact to his embassy and such). Reading > here that even his family is cut off from contact, it sound to me that this > might by another case like it. Yep, it sounds like it probably is. -- It's as if we outlawed cars on the principle that they could be used to help crooks escape from bank robberies. - Dan Gillmore on the DMCA From dredd at megacity.org Thu Jul 19 11:23:29 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <87g0bs7smr.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <87g0bs7smr.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: At 10:09 AM -0700 7/19/01, Klepht wrote: >The point is very, very simple: FAIR USE. "Fair use" means that if you >buy something, you get to use it however you want. If you buy a >newspaper, you can use it to line your birdcage. If you buy a book, >you can give it to your Mom to read. If you buy a piece of software, >you can make a backup. If you buy an electronic book, you can change >the font so it doesn't hurt your eyes. >People understand "fair." People understand "computer files." People >understand "my computer, my files." People understand "a man is in >jail unfairly." Again, you're preaching to the choir. _I_ understand the correlation between fair-use on books and fair-use on e-books, but the media has biased the "masses" against "hackers" through years of bad press. As I write the paragraphs below, I want to be clear that I *don't* believe these things I'm saying, but that it is "the response" you'll get if you make these arguments to the uneducated masses. >1. Adobe Inc. wants to take away YOUR rights to use files you paid > for, on YOUR computer, as you see fit. They don't trust you to be > honest, so they use software to take away as many of your rights as > they can. It's "copy protection", and the majority of the people will read that "copy protection breaking" as "bad", even if it isn't. They'll also note that "he had to break an encryption algorithm designed to protect the copyrighted work" (which sounds scary, like something bad people do), and they'll accept it at that. >2. A programmer from Russia named Dmitry Sklyarov figured out how to > stop Adobe from doing this. Bad bad Russian hacker. >3. Because of a misguided law called the DMCA, someone who writes > software that protects your rights as a consumer can go to jail. He didn't "protect my rights", he was an evil russian hacker who was hacking Adobe's secret codes. >4. When he was visiting the U.S. for a conference, Adobe asked the FBI > to put him in jail, which they did. Yayyyyy, we caught one of those hacker guys! Seriously, if you can't get them on the other issues, and I don't think the non-computer-literate are going to be hooked, this is just "the justice system doing its job". >5. And we think that's unfair. You're not a hacker, too, are you? >6. So we want Dmitry Sklyarov out of jail immediately. You're making demands? You're not going to like, hack the air-traffic control system to get what you want, are you? >7. And we want the DMCA repealed. More demands? Seriously, don't get me wrong, I'm ALL FOR what you're saying, but I think you miss that the average person is a sheep, who accepts as undiluted truth what is spoon-fed to them via the media. They're already convinced hackers are evil creatures, who exist solely to steal their data, breaking the secret codes that keep their data private. In their eyes, this is just a Russian punk, who broke Adobe's codes, got busted, and now has a bunch of other criminal hacker-types demanding his release. (the "...or else" will never be spoken, but the unwashed masses will think it is there, even though it isn't, because they view the hacker-types with suspicion). D -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From bill at scannell.org Thu Jul 19 11:24:31 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Russian Consulate in SF In-Reply-To: <3B572323.3D7C056@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi there, First, thanks for giving him a call. I spoke to him this morning, too. If you were also able to get past his diplomatic double-talk, you would have found out that: A) No one other than US law enforcement has spoken to Sklyarov since his arrest; B) The Russians are in contact with Department of State, Immigration and FBI to get access to him; C) There was no outright refusal on the part of the US to allow access to the Russian government, buy they certainly haven't been giving access; D) Sklyarov has not been allowed phone contact with either his government, family or employer since his arrest. The Russians are working the situation diplomatically. That does not mean we non-diplomats can't put it in plain English. -Bill on 19.7.01 13:12, Anton Chterenlikht at a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk wrote: > I've just spoken to Vladimir Aleksandrovich Nebyvaev in the Russian Consulati > in SF. He is the person that should be contacted regading to this case. His > answer is: > > 1. There was no!! denial from american side for the consulate employees to > visit Dmitry. He says such a visit is being planned but since there are lots > of bureacratic detailes involved this visit has not take place yet. > > 2. Russian side has no!! complaints at all regarding the case. Thay say that > everything is going according to the federal law and all they can do is to > wait. > > 3. I asked him if there is anything he would advise me (us (in the UK, in the > USA and in Moscow)) to undertake. He told me that his opinion is that we can > do whatever we want but he does not think it will have any effect. > > I therefore ask those of you who will take part in any action (against Adobe > or any other): be reasonable, do not exaggerate or distort the facts in any > way. I'm deeply concerned that it might be even worse for Dmitry after all. > > Finally, what happened with EFF site. I cannot connect to them. > > anton > > --------------------------------------- > Anton Chterenlikht > Research Assistant > > Mechanical Engineering Department > Sheffield University > Mappin Street > Sheffield S1 3JD > UK > Tel: (+) 114 2227863 > Fax: (+) 114 2226015 > Email: a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk > --------------------------------------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > ? Committing random acts of journalism and PR since 1987? ? From travel at elcomsoft.com Thu Jul 19 11:23:54 2001 From: travel at elcomsoft.com (Vladimir Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From Vladimir In-Reply-To: <01a901c11072$670b1420$0100a8c0@sharhan> References: <2651825671.20010719200918@elcomsoft.com> <01a901c11072$670b1420$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: <13359901023.20010719222354@elcomsoft.com> Hello Ilya, IVV> I'm AtH, that helped 2600 to make Free Kevin Demonstration IVV> in Moscow. Are there availiable "official" press-releases IVV> on Russian or we should send to newspapers some texts IVV> of our own? Sorry, not yet. IVV> As for now, have Dmitry some advocate IVV> or layer in States? Yes -- from EFF. IVV> I prefer actions, coordinated by IVV> responsible and competent person. That's 100% correct idia. -- Best regards, Vladimir mailto:travel@elcomsoft.com From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 11:35:15 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattle Protest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Bill Scannell wrote: > I'll be in Seattle on Monday. Is there anyone interested in picketing the > Seattle (Freemont) Adobe office? I live in Portland and, while I'd like to drum something up here, we could do the federal building, but have no Adobe offices. I'm torn on two counts: 1) I'd like to do something in my own city and 2) I think Adobe is just protecting itself using the existing law and it is the law that needs revision (Title 17 en toto, not just Sec. 1201). But if you organize something, I'll come up Monday morning if I can't get much going here. Then again, I just MAY fly down to San Jose for their thing Monday... if I do that, I'll fly out tomorrow afternoon. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From salgak at speakeasy.net Thu Jul 19 11:41:00 2001 From: salgak at speakeasy.net (Keith A. Glass) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Proposal -- Start an Online Petition Drive Regarding Sklyarov Arrest Message-ID: <200107191841.LAA23330@webmail.speakeasy.net> > As one who helped with the anti-CDA petition drive a few > years ago which got about 130,000 signatures, I propose > that we start an online petition drive concerning Sklyarov, > Adobe and/or the DMCA. (I recall there being at least one > web site for the purpose of running online petitions so > we could use such a service or simply put a web form up > somewhere -- I prefer the former.) > > Of course, we need to decide upon: > > 1) Does it make any sense to devote energy to it? Yes > 2) If so, what should be the wording of the petition > statement? Who and what should it be focused > towards? Thinking that issue: Primary focus: Get Dmitri out of jail and on a plane home. THEN we fight the DMCA. . . > 3) How do we promote the petition to get the > general net community interested in it and to > e-sign it? www.petitiononline.com looks like the obvious place. I'd also suggest vote.com, because THAT autogenerates email to to proper parties. . . > Regarding 2), the petition statement wording must be very > carefully worded -- concise, non-conspiratorial/non-libelous > and moderate in tone, must focus on the important issues, and > of course to state something we "all" can agree upon, rather > than trying to be too extreme. It must also convey reference > sources for the interested person to look up and study the > issues surrounding the DMCA before deciding to e-sign the > petition. That's along the lines that I've been counseling people. ESPECIALLY with the G-8 meeting this weekend. We have to stay rational, calm, and logical. We're already going to have an uphill publicity battle with Joe and Jane Public, because Adobe and the Feds are guaranteed to cry "HACKER!!", and get a lot of sheeple to back them on the h-word alone. Yelling and flames don't just do nothing, they're actually COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE.... > Regarding 3), we certainly need an aggressive campaign to "get > out the vote". We will need a couple dozen or more core > people to circulate the petition to relevant online forums/ > lists/boards/newsgroups etc., and to solicit others to pass > it on to their friends and so on. There are probably other > ways to promote it as well (geez, if we can get Matt Drudge > to report on this petition, we'd get several hundred thousand > signatures from that alone!) Wired. Slashdot. ZDNet. We also need to get ACLU onboard. The Libertarian Party is a natural here, as is CDT and EPIC. And some of the more active political sites. I've been pondering all day as to how I want to broach the topic on FreeRepublic. . . > Finally, we need to act and get this out within hours, not > days, since we have momentum at the moment, and much interest, > but this is fleeting, and we must strike while the iron is > hot -- if anything, the petition will keep the momentum going > as I observed with the CDA. Do we need another "turn the web black" day ?? The obvious day for that is next Tuesday, followed by that IT Sick-out I've heard mentioned.... From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 11:49:12 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <87g0bs7smr.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <87puaw69g7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "DB" == Derek Balling writes: DB> Again, you're preaching to the choir. _I_ understand the DB> correlation between fair-use on books and fair-use on e-books, DB> but the media has biased the "masses" against "hackers" DB> through years of bad press. I think my point was that one could formulate easy-to-understand and true statements about the Sklyarov case for mass consumption. I'm not trying to explain the case to the people on this list. DB> As I write the paragraphs below, I want to be clear that I DB> *don't* believe these things I'm saying, but that it is "the DB> response" you'll get if you make these arguments to the DB> uneducated masses. Well, it seems to me that we need to make our points louder then, eh? When it boils down to spin, we have to spin things our way as best we can. Everyone can plant fnords, after all. DB> Seriously, don't get me wrong, I'm ALL FOR what you're saying, DB> but I think you miss that the average person is a sheep, who DB> accepts as undiluted truth what is spoon-fed to them via the DB> media. Well, first of all, I'm going to formally disagree with the elitist implication that average people are stupid. I think you're wrong here, but I don't think there's much point in arguing that. But second of all, America is a willing audience for our message. The message is: fair. The message is: US out of my computer. The message is: my home, my castle. These are not difficult messages to convince the US public of. If the story on CNN ("FBI Arrests Russian Hacker") is heavily slanted, let's get the story "Broad-based Rights Coalition Demands Fair Use Rights" up there instead. We can get the story "Americans Think DMCA Goes Too Far" up there. It's not really that hard. The only way to lose is to capitulate before we start. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From andrea at gravitt.org Thu Jul 19 11:53:04 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattle Protest Message-ID: <00ee01c11084$20db8770$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> There are no offices here in Atlanta that I know of, and I am far away from the action. Lacking a readily available target, I'm not sure what focus a local protest might have. I thought about coming out for something (really -- I have friends in SF and have been trying to arrange a visit) but getting a day off is a problem. So instead I sent EFF some more money, approximately the amount I would spend on a weekend trip out there, and coincidentally the exact amount of my "Bread and Circuses" Bush/Cheney tax refund. I expect the check will show up about the same time as my Amex statement. I thought it fitting. Andrea From salgak at speakeasy.net Thu Jul 19 11:53:00 2001 From: salgak at speakeasy.net (Keith A. Glass) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Online Vote Message-ID: <200107191853.LAA27417@webmail.speakeasy.net> I've alerted Vote.com on this, with pointers to the Cryptome and PlanetEBook pages on Dmitri, with any luck, they'll put up a nationwide vote page on it... From jono at microshaft.org Thu Jul 19 12:02:03 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattle Protest In-Reply-To: ; from jeme@brelin.net on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 11:35:15AM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010719120203.B58337@networkcommand.com> No matter where you are you can participate in an IT Workers against the DMCA sickout. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/adhoc_it_union Many IT workers are so critical to day to day business functions we are on call 24/7. That much dependence means we should have at least some influence...;) Come sign up. You don't have to commit to the sick day, just show your support. The arrest needs a strong reaction, the law must be reviewed. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/adhoc_it_union On 19-Jul-2001, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Bill Scannell wrote: > > I'll be in Seattle on Monday. Is there anyone interested in picketing the > > Seattle (Freemont) Adobe office? > > I live in Portland and, while I'd like to drum something up here, we could > do the federal building, but have no Adobe offices. > > I'm torn on two counts: > 1) I'd like to do something in my own city and > 2) I think Adobe is just protecting itself using the existing law and it > is the law that needs revision (Title 17 en toto, not just Sec. 1201). > > But if you organize something, I'll come up Monday morning if I can't get > much going here. > > Then again, I just MAY fly down to San Jose for their thing Monday... if I > do that, I'll fly out tomorrow afternoon. > > J. > -- > ----------------- > Jeme A Brelin > jeme@brelin.net > ----------------- > [cc] counter-copyright > http://www.openlaw.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010719/d49eb6b3/attachment.pgp From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 12:04:10 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <87puaw69g7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: On 19 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > If the story on CNN ("FBI Arrests Russian Hacker") is heavily slanted, > let's get the story "Broad-based Rights Coalition Demands Fair Use > Rights" up there instead. We can get the story "Americans Think DMCA > Goes Too Far" up there. > > It's not really that hard. The only way to lose is to capitulate > before we start. Are you new to anti-corporate activism? CNN is a MEDIA COMPANY. In fact, CNN is AOL/Time-Warner. They, along with Disney, Bertelsmann, Viacomm, et al. are the ones that WROTE the DMCA! The media companies WANT the DMCA. Their interest in fairness, an informed public, etc. ALL take a back seat to their profit interest... which is best served by supporting the DMCA. When profits are the only thing that matter (or, as the Libertarians like to put it, the first priority [so, duh, when do you consider the second? when profits are the same either way... i.e. never]), freedom, society, community, and culture all go out the window. SOME Americans think the DMCA goes too far... Americans, in general, have maybe heard the name and that's about it. It's not that their stupid or sheep or any other elitist tripe. It's that they CANNOT be informed about information issues because the media companies are a vested interest (and, obviously, the only source of information... after all, they ARE the media). I suggest y'all pick up a copy of Rich Media, Poor Democracy. While I don't agree with McChesney 100%, he makes some points very clearly. In privatizing all public life, we've eliminated the public sphere and turned everything into the market sphere. The market is not the only legitimate means of human interaction and we need to start encouraging other forms and stop using market metaphors for everything. I don't have rights "as a consumer"... I have a rights as an individual, a human being, and a citizen. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From watha at monitortan.com Thu Jul 19 13:05:15 2001 From: watha at monitortan.com (Hiawatha Bray) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Journalist seeks help Message-ID: I'm writing about this curious event, and I'd like to quote some members of this list, to illustrate the public's reaction to the case. If you're willing to provide your name, age, occupation and the town where you live, please write me or give me a call. Thanks. Hiawatha Bray Technology Reporter Boston Globe P.O. Box 2378 135 Morrissey Blvd. Boston, MA 02107 USA 617-929-3119 voice 617-929-3183 fax bray@globe.com watha@monitortan.com From ash at toocan.com Thu Jul 19 12:17:09 2001 From: ash at toocan.com (ash) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Duty Judge - San Jose Message-ID: the duty judge for the month of july is: Judge Ware -- ashten remwa****************ash@toocan.com |.|.....(_)..|.\..|.|..|.|..|.|..\.\..././ |.|.....|.|..|..\.|.|..|.|..|.|...\.\././ |.|.....|.|..|...\|.|..|.|..|.|..../._.\ |.|___..|.|..|.|\...|..|.|__|.|..././.\.\ |_____).|_| .|_|.\__|..|______|../_/...\_\ http://www.toocan.com/~ash From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 12:20:46 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattle Protest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87lmlk67zl.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JAB" == Jeme A Brelin writes: JAB> 2) I think Adobe is just protecting itself using the existing JAB> law and it is the law that needs revision Just to counterpoint, here: Adobe has a weak technology which they advertised as capable of solving a problem some computer scientists say is theoretically insoluble. When someone showed that, in fact, this was not the case, Adobe's clients started backing off. What did Adobe do then? Did Adobe fess up to the truth? Did they try and improve their technology? Did they rethink the problem and try to attack it another way? No, they did not. They had the person who told the truth put in jail. They used a technicality in an unjust law to file a complaint that led to his arrest. Some people would say that that's just business. Well, sure, that's some kind of business. Ugly, immoral business. It's a shame on Adobe that they resorted to these tactics. No one should have to go to jail to bolster Adobe's sagging profits. No one should have to go to jail because Adobe's eBook software is a catastrophe. No one should go to jail because Adobe can't keep its impossible promises to its customers. It's wrong. The world should know that it's wrong. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From pablos at kadrevis.com Thu Jul 19 12:22:17 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsflash! Sklyarov Denied Access To Russian Consul In-Reply-To: <20010719110142.F889@cluebot.com> References: <87y9plnzc6.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.u <20010719011118.F8506@zork.net> <1045334.995505824@[0.0.0.0]> <20010719110142.F889@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <63476.995545337@[10.0.1.220]> --On Thursday, July 19, 2001 11:01 AM -0400 Declan McCullagh wrote: > On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 01:23:45AM -0700, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: >> Having talked to Alexander (Elcomsoft Executive in San Francisco) only >> an hour ago: >> >> 1 Nobody has talked to Dmitry since his arrest. >> 2 Nobody knows where he is being held. >> 3 Nobody knows where he'll turn up next. >> >> Where "Nobody" is any of us and/or Dmitry's colleagues, not the feds. > > It's been publicly reported that he is being held in Vegas and will > turn up next in the Bay Area, probably San Jose. If nobody knows that, > it's because they're not reading hte papers. Declan, I know exactly what is in "hte papers." What we didn't know at the time I posted is where in Vegas and/or California he was being held, nor where he would be delivered. San Jose is only one of several assumptions that has been reported. pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 19 12:25:41 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From Vladimir In-Reply-To: <13359901023.20010719222354@elcomsoft.com>; from travel@elcomsoft.com on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 10:23:54PM +0400 References: <2651825671.20010719200918@elcomsoft.com> <01a901c11072$670b1420$0100a8c0@sharhan> <13359901023.20010719222354@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: <20010719122541.S8506@zork.net> Vladimir Katalov writes: > IVV> As for now, have Dmitry some advocate > IVV> or layer in States? > > Yes -- from EFF. We should note that it is not proper to say this until he has actually accepted the offer. In the U.S., lawyers are not allowed to represent clients or speak on behalf of them until the clients have said "I agree that you may represent me" or something similar. Also, lawyers are usually not allowed to contact potential clients to ask to represent them! However, there are some exceptions, including when a lawyer wants to represent someone as a volunteer ("pro bono"). This is what the lawyers at EFF would like to do, so they are allowed to try to contact Sklyarov _if the people in Las Vegas who are detaining him allow it_. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From bill at scannell.org Thu Jul 19 12:28:15 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Calling All Adobe Employees In-Reply-To: <200107191841.LAA23330@webmail.speakeasy.net> Message-ID: Hi, Thanks for reading this list. You're either a PR flack paid to read this or, more likely, one of the many Adobe employees disgusted with the way your company has twisted a white hat security professional into a not-yet-convicted felon. I need your help. I'm making up a number of stickers and small, easily concealed fliers that I'd like distributed inside your company. I don't want you to jeopardise your job, I just want you to help the cause out from the inside. Maybe if senior management knows how you feel about this on the ground, then they will do the right thing and drop the complaint against Sklyarov. Please reply to me directly. Confidentiality is assured. Thanks, Bill From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 19 12:29:09 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] how can we help ? In-Reply-To: <3B555003.C6C28C07@celorio.com>; from chema@celorio.com on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 03:59:47AM -0500 References: <3B555003.C6C28C07@celorio.com> Message-ID: <20010719122909.B26079@zork.net> Begin Chema Celorio quotation: > I tried searching the archives but they seem to not be working. http://zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/2001-July/thread.html There's no search engine on zork, but I could install ht:dig if people feel the need. All the same, the archives seem to be working. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From dave-s at cyclopsmedia.com Thu Jul 19 12:29:22 2001 From: dave-s at cyclopsmedia.com (dave-s@cyclopsmedia.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] I REPRESENT the most "injured" party Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/octet-stream Size: 14425 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010719/e218c896/attachment.obj From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 19 12:35:41 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Newsflash! Sklyarov Denied Access To Russian Consul In-Reply-To: <63476.995545337@[10.0.1.220]>; from pablos@kadrevis.com on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 12:22:17PM -0700 References: <87y9plnzc6.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.u <20010719011118.F8506@zork.net> <1045334.995505824@[0.0.0.0]> <20010719110142.F889@cluebot.com> <63476.995545337@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <20010719123541.V8506@zork.net> Pablos Kadrevis writes: > Declan, I know exactly what is in "hte papers." What we didn't know at the > time I posted is where in Vegas and/or California he was being held, nor > where he would be delivered. San Jose is only one of several assumptions > that has been reported. Robyn is going to find out today -- I hope -- whether it's certain that people who are complained of in one venue get transferred to the prison nearby that venue. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 19 12:39:13 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <20010719092405.E19001@sherohman.org>; from esper@sherohman.org on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 09:24:05AM -0500 References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> <20010719092405.E19001@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20010719123913.C26079@zork.net> Begin Dave Sherohman quotation: > You're right - the press is a lot more interested in the odd or the > sensational rather than Yet Another Protest. Another story along those lines: http://crackmonkey.org/pipermail/crackmonkey/2001q3/021895.html -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 19 12:40:05 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Stickers/Slogan In-Reply-To: <200107191606.JAA06798@shell3.ba.best.com>; from drumz@best.com on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 09:06:58AM -0700 References: <200107191606.JAA06798@shell3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <20010719124005.D26079@zork.net> Begin Ethan Straffin quotation: > Noooo! Memes I can see. The last thing we need is more mimes. You mean those guys in the black clothes, white pancake makeup, and Sisters of Mercy t-shirts? -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From jono at microshaft.org Thu Jul 19 12:47:33 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Publishing Assocations Message-ID: <20010719124733.F58337@networkcommand.com> Hello: Has anyone contacted publishing associations and authors' guilds to find out their point of view on this? I suggest we provide some documents that explain what is going to and provide them to these groups. We need them on our side. They are the Adobe customers and we need to make sure the disinformation doesn't make them ignore the real issues. Adobe is hawking weak protection for their materials. Also, we need some well written documents explaining the DMCA issues to people who do not know technology, etc. Anyone got pointers? Thanks, Jon ============================== IT Workers Unite! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/adhoc_it_union ============================== -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010719/e1c7fcee/attachment.pgp From watha at monitortan.com Thu Jul 19 13:49:40 2001 From: watha at monitortan.com (Hiawatha Bray) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Buried alive! Message-ID: Thanks for all the replies. I never realized what a talkative bunch you all are. I won't be able to use all your responses, but I'll be in touch with a couple of you individually. Thanks again! Hiawatha Bray Technology Reporter Boston Globe P.O. Box 2378 135 Morrissey Blvd. Boston, MA 02107 USA 617-929-3119 voice 617-929-3183 fax bray@globe.com watha@monitortan.com From declan at well.com Thu Jul 19 07:42:08 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: ; from dredd@megacity.org on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 05:01:03PM -0700 References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]> <20010718164409.F7451@zork.net> <87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010719104208.C889@cluebot.com> Pardon me for being cynical (or, perhaps, informed about what works in DC), but let me humbly suggest it is not entirely clear that this anti-DMCA protest changed many minds on Capitol Hill: http://www.mccullagh.org/image/7/dmca-protesters-1.html -Declan On Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 05:01:03PM -0700, Derek Balling wrote: > At 4:50 PM -0700 7/18/01, Klepht wrote: > > >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt writes: > > > > NM> What would we demonstrate? > > > > NM> After the DeCSS protest outside of the Sony Metreon in > > NM> San Francisco, I have become soured on the notion of protests. > > > >So, don't come. But please stop trying to convince everyone that > >protests don't work. Try telling the NAACP, Act Up!, the UFW and > >countless other organizations that street protests don't work. > > > > Street protests work, where the "masses" can understand easily and > relate to the issue involved. I don't have to "Be Gay" to understand > gay rights activists. I don't have to be black to understand that > "Yeah, we oppressed people in the past, and some people still do it > today". > > DMCA violations are something the people "don't understand", by and > large. Around HERE, in our cloistered little high tech environs, > there may be a larger-than-normal understanding, but the masses don't > understand it all. > > They DON'T work, as evidenced by WTO protests, if the masses DON'T > understand. Was there any huge uproar from the masses after the WTO > protests? Did the people rise up and scream "never again!" .. > > No. They bitched about the traffic problems it caused. > > D > > -- > +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ > | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | > | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | > | | driven before you, and to hear the | > | | lamentation of their women!" | > +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From salgak at speakeasy.net Thu Jul 19 07:13:00 2001 From: salgak at speakeasy.net (Keith A. Glass) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Summary to date: Action points ?? Message-ID: <200107191413.HAA03225@webmail.speakeasy.net> 1. Dmitri is in jail, location unknown but likely either Las Vegas or in the Bay Area. 2. He's being held incommunicado, even with the Consulate of the Russian Federation, in violation of the Vienna Convention (21 U.S.T. at 77). 3. Adobe Corporation is presumed to have started this whole mess. 4. US media coverage, outside of the Net/Geek/Hacker press has pretty much ignored this. If this is a correct summary, we need an action plan. Suggestions: 1. NYC people: somebody needs to call the UN Mission of the Russian Federation/ Russian Consulate. I've seen comments for the SF Consulate and the Embassy here in DC, but getting UN involvement. And NYC action gets national press coverage a lot faster. 2. We need press in overseas capitals as well. With Bush in London today, we need the UK press to hit this hard tomorrow. If it's on the front page of the Times of London and the Observer, it will have impact. 3. The G-8 meeting this weekend: have no details, but obviously pinging the State Departments/equivalent of the G-8 members may have an effect. CAVEAT: Flames do no good here. Quiet, reasoned, POLITE logic is the path to follow here, otherwise, we'll be lumped in with the anarchists and other protesters setting up for the G-8 this weekend, AND WILL BE IGNORED. IF we want Dmitri freed, we have to work INSIDE the system. . . Just my 2 cents' worth. . . . From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 15:44:17 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] flying out to san jose? In-Reply-To: <877kx44lbu.fsf@feynman.hurstdog.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719154305.03d61c78@pop3.norton.antivirus> Please organize a protest in Denver. If you are willing to act as a contact person, others will join you. If so, please give us the contact info to use so people may contact you. Free Sklyarov, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 04:15 PM 7/19/2001 -0600, vsync wrote: >I'm in Denver right now, and it would cost me $362 to fly out there >for the protest march. I'm seriously considering it. Anyone know of >options for getting from SFO->San Jose? I don't particularly want to >take CalTrain... > >If I don't do this, I'd be very interested in attending a Denver area >protest, and so would my girlfriend, and possibly friends and >relatives. Let me know if anything gets organized. > >-- >vsync >http://quadium.net/ >(cons (cons (car (cons 'c 'r)) (cdr (cons 'a 'o))) ; Orjner > (cons (cons (car (cons 'n 'c)) (cdr (cons nil 's))) nil)) > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 15:46:30 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: <871ync4kuh.fsf@feynman.hurstdog.org> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719154553.03d67370@pop3.norton.antivirus> Sonja, Are you willing to act as the contact for the Denver protest? If so, please provide your full contact info (full name, telephone, and email address) Thanks, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 04:25 PM 7/19/2001 -0600, vsync wrote: >"Sonja V. Tideman" writes: > > > It looks like we will have a protest in Denver on Monday. The details > > have not been ironed out (we are meeting at 7:30 tomorrow night at the > > Boulder Bookstore's Cafe for anyone in the Denver area who would like to > >Where is this located? > >-- >vsync >http://quadium.net/ >(cons (cons (car (cons 'c 'r)) (cdr (cons 'a 'o))) ; Orjner > (cons (cons (car (cons 'n 'c)) (cdr (cons nil 's))) nil)) > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to Thu Jul 19 15:40:55 2001 From: noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to (robyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] flying out to san jose? In-Reply-To: <877kx44lbu.fsf@feynman.hurstdog.org> Message-ID: Priceline Denver -> San Jose directly? On 19 Jul 2001, vsync wrote: > I'm in Denver right now, and it would cost me $362 to fly out there > for the protest march. I'm seriously considering it. Anyone know of > options for getting from SFO->San Jose? I don't particularly want to > take CalTrain... > > If I don't do this, I'd be very interested in attending a Denver area > protest, and so would my girlfriend, and possibly friends and > relatives. Let me know if anything gets organized. > > From sonjat at cs.unm.edu Thu Jul 19 15:41:31 2001 From: sonjat at cs.unm.edu (Sonja V. Tideman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: <871ync4kuh.fsf@feynman.hurstdog.org> Message-ID: It is the bookend cafe, located at 1115 pearl (near 11 st) Sonja On 19 Jul 2001, vsync wrote: > "Sonja V. Tideman" writes: > > > It looks like we will have a protest in Denver on Monday. The details > > have not been ironed out (we are meeting at 7:30 tomorrow night at the > > Boulder Bookstore's Cafe for anyone in the Denver area who would like to > > Where is this located? > > -- > vsync > http://quadium.net/ > (cons (cons (car (cons 'c 'r)) (cdr (cons 'a 'o))) ; Orjner > (cons (cons (car (cons 'n 'c)) (cdr (cons nil 's))) nil)) > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From pedro at tastytronic.net Thu Jul 19 15:44:40 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Area Malcontents? Message-ID: <20010719174440.E4588@tastytronic.net> Anyone onlist that is a Chicago-area resident and interested in doing some kind of protest and/or demonstration? I live here, but frankly, I don't even know where the best location would be for maximum visibility or media-draw. Any takers/ideas? pedro -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter A. Peterson II, CEO Users of Free Operating Systems, Chicago USA http://ufo.chicago.il.us -- Free Software Rules -- Proprietary Drools! From vsync at quadium.net Thu Jul 19 15:25:58 2001 From: vsync at quadium.net (vsync) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <871ync4kuh.fsf@feynman.hurstdog.org> "Sonja V. Tideman" writes: > It looks like we will have a protest in Denver on Monday. The details > have not been ironed out (we are meeting at 7:30 tomorrow night at the > Boulder Bookstore's Cafe for anyone in the Denver area who would like to Where is this located? -- vsync http://quadium.net/ (cons (cons (car (cons 'c 'r)) (cdr (cons 'a 'o))) ; Orjner (cons (cons (car (cons 'n 'c)) (cdr (cons nil 's))) nil)) From jon at callas.org Thu Jul 19 15:08:53 2001 From: jon at callas.org (Jon Callas) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Focus. Message-ID: I've been reading this (while trying to do a security review of something in another window), so I apologize if this is too terse. There are several issues there: (1) The DMCA. (2) What Sklyarov allegedly did. (3) The way the FBI handled it. If you want to get Sklyarov out of jail, you need to focus on (2) and (3), and forget about (1) for the time being. (1) has been around for years, and it will be around for years more. It's going to be a long fight, folks, and the issues are complex. The place to focus, in my opinion, is (3). Sklyarov may have done something that is illegal in the US. But he did it in his native land, where it is not illegal. His company even cooperated with the complaint against them, by removing the offending program from their site. That shows that they're not being mere pirates. Next, the FBI acted heavy-handedly. They *could* have denied him entry into the US. They *could* have just put him on a plane and said, "Don't come back." Instead, they prepared an arrest in anticipation for him to come to the US to present a paper. *That* is scary for all people -- if countries start arresting travelers for things they did in their native land, we're all in trouble. This is a very bad precedent. On a larger scale, this sort of thing weakens our ability to chastise places on human rights issues. There have been times when Americans visiting abroad have been arrested, and the US government usually considers these to be human rights violations. It makes it hard for us to get our own people out of other prisons if we run around jailing grad students for not being up on US law. I also mention here that if you are one of the people who like the DMCA, you should still be upset. One reason is that these procedural things take away from the merits of the case. Making an example out of a foreigner who happened to travel to the US only plays into the hands who oppose the DMCA. (And as one of those, I have to say thanks, guys!) Another is that this will probably blunt further implementation of the WIPO treaty in other countries; you really wanted your test case to be a real criminal, not an academic. Those of us who have been opposing WIPO brought up things like this, and we were assured that legitimate researchers won't be harassed. Well, guys, the first two people bothered were a full professor at Princeton, and a grad student from Moscow. And you should also be worried about the issue below. Lastly, it appears that the government has not followed accepted international procedures. We don't really know, since we're sitting here in an information vacuum. The much bigger issue is whether the DMCA is so important to the US that we're going to make an international incident over it. Stressing *these* things may get Sklyarov out of jail, and you may even get the pro-DMCA forces to help. Jon From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 15:54:38 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Area Malcontents? In-Reply-To: <20010719174440.E4588@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719155411.02009420@pop3.norton.antivirus> Choose a federal courthouse or Adobe office. If you are willing to be the contact for a protest there, please let us know right away! Thanks, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 05:44 PM 7/19/2001 -0500, Peter A. Peterson II wrote: >Anyone onlist that is a Chicago-area resident and interested in doing >some kind of protest and/or demonstration? I live here, but frankly, I >don't even know where the best location would be for maximum visibility >or media-draw. Any takers/ideas? > >pedro > >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Peter A. Peterson II, CEO Users of Free Operating Systems, Chicago USA >http://ufo.chicago.il.us -- Free Software Rules -- Proprietary Drools! > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From mh_sklyarov at cryptonomicon.net Thu Jul 19 15:45:25 2001 From: mh_sklyarov at cryptonomicon.net (Matthew S. Hamrick) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Cryptonomicon.Net Resources RE: The Sklyarov Controversy Message-ID: Hi All, Just wanted to share these links with you... Ongoing discussion forum about the Dmitri Sklyarov case: http://www.cryptonomicon.net/article.php?sid=38&mode=thread&order=0 Link Farm for links related to the case: http://www.cryptonomicon.net/links.php?op=viewslink&sid=55 Downloads Section for AEBPR and powerpoint presentation, etc.: http://www.cryptonomicon.net/download.php?op=viewdownload&cid=4 Hope they're interesting... Also, if someone with better knowledge of the planned protest could post something about that to the discussion section, I would be much appreciated. There seems to be a little confusion about what's going on with this ... -Matt Hamrick From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 19 15:34:44 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda In-Reply-To: ; from xyz@kalifornia.com on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 08:36:12AM -0700 References: <00b101c11064$2691fc00$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: <20010719153444.A17752@zork.net> Begin <> quotation: > Personally I think the T-Shirts are nice, the use of the Russian > symbology would turn many away. Please, it is Soviet symbology, not Russian. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 15:46:13 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any way for long-distance protest support? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010719163838.00e46d80@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Paul Gowder wrote: > I'm sitting out here in Eastern Oregon (though I'll probably be in > Portland on Monday) -- for me, and those like me, a long distance away > from any A-doh-be offices, is there any support the protestors need > that can be provided long-distance? I'm working on putting together a group to meet in Terry Shrunck Plaza (a public space) outside the federal building downtown Portland at 11am. Let me know if you're interested and what you can do to help (signs, flyers, etc.) I'm hoping to recruit much of downtown's IT staff... hopefully to at least get their lunch hour attention. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 15:32:00 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] flying out to san jose? In-Reply-To: <877kx44lbu.fsf@feynman.hurstdog.org> Message-ID: On 19 Jul 2001, vsync wrote: > I'm in Denver right now, and it would cost me $362 to fly out there > for the protest march. I'm seriously considering it. Anyone know of > options for getting from SFO->San Jose? I don't particularly want to > take CalTrain... In my case, from Portland, it's much cheaper to fly to SJC directly. I was considering flying in myself, but someone on this very list made me see the light. If you fly in, you will be one in a crowd that may have some psychological impact and MIGHT improve the chances of news coverage of the situation. If you spend the same money on a check to the EFF, you will be providing for direct, effective, legal challenge to these abominable laws. I'll be sending the EFF my airfare to San Jose. My personal satisfaction is worth less than what they can do. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From maxomai at aracnet.com Thu Jul 19 15:53:47 2001 From: maxomai at aracnet.com (Michael C. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Some Adobe substitutes Message-ID: <20010719155347.A25314@aracnet.com> Here's a list of sites for some Adobe substitutes: The GIMP: a full-blown graphics editing program released under the General Public License. GIMP graphics tend to have a distinctive look (that I like). http://www.gimp.org/ TeX: Industrial strength publishing software (think math books). Output formats include dvi, pdf(!!) and html. There's a whole mess of web pages on the software available at http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Desktop_Publishing/TeX/ The TeX users group web page can be found at http://www.tug.org/ ... lots of handly links here. xpdf is a PDF reader for the X Windowing System. Experimental versions exist for DOS/Windows. http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/ There's probably more out there...please let us know if you know of more. Mike Smith On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 05:26:12PM -0400, Charles L. Jackson wrote: > Someone asked: > Secondly, does it make sense to include links to open-source > products > that do the same things that Adobe's products do? (e.g., xpdf, > LaTeX, > GIMP, etc.) I know not all of these are necessarily up to Adobe's > level of quality (at least for what graphic design people need), but > it could help put the economic pressure on Adobe wrt home users. > > This is one of the strongest things we can do. I think those links > should be posted and people should be encouraged to post materials using > alternate products. > > The other thing would be to encourage those in the open-source community to > develope better PDF substitutes. > > > Chuck ----- End forwarded message ----- From sonjat at cs.unm.edu Thu Jul 19 15:27:23 2001 From: sonjat at cs.unm.edu (Sonja V. Tideman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [free-sklyarov]Contact Persons for Protests in Each City In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719143021.03e8a7a0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Hello, I am willing to be the contact person for the Denver area protest. Sonja Tideman sonjat@cs.unm.edu On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > Folks, > > We really need to list contact information for > organizers in the other cities where protests > will take place. > > If you are willing to act as a contact person, > please send the contact info you would like > us to use for your protest to this list > (or to me personally). > > The only way for people in each city to group > together to act is to have a focal person for > each location. Being a contact person does > not mean that you have to do everything to > organize the protest. > > Once you let people know you are the contact > person, others will contact you and you can > make the protest happen! EFF can get the > information out to a large number of activists > interested in this issue rapidly and other > activists on this list can also pass on the > word. > > Materials such as sample leaflets, media > releases, etc, will be available on the > EFF site and other locations to be announced > here soon. > > Free Sklyarov, > > Will Doherty > Online Activist / Media Relations > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > Web http://www.eff.org > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > ------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 15:14:44 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [adhoc_it_union] ISSUES to address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Jon Callas wrote: > > The main question I have about a sick out is who is it going to hurt? > My employer is no friend of the DMCA. I've been working against the > DMCA for over three years now. Most people probably work for some > company that neither knows about nor cares about the DMCA. A sick out > is just going to make them say, "Huh?" Punching Peter doesn't hurt > Paul. > > If you do work for a company that's pro-DMCA, it might have an effect, > but what sort of effect? Are you just making more work for your > colleagues that don't care? That's not the way to convince them that > it's a good cause, it's a good way to irritate them. If your employer > is really evil, they'll merely deduct a sick day from you, and go on > their merry way. If we were just trying to halt a company or make some particular goal difficult to achieve, we would target it in such a way. But shutting down Adobe for a day wouldn't make a difference to anyone at all. Adobe could announce a "Founder's Day" and take the day off and nobody but the employees would care. If Adobe's IT department took the day off work, the other employees at Adobe might ask "Hey, what's going on?" and they would find out and be more informed. If the country's IT staff took the day off, every employee at every company would ask "Why are they doing that?" and the answer to that question would inform MILLIONS of people about this issue. Today we are plagued by a public, politicians, and legal system that is woefully ignorant of issues facing the digital world. The solutions being proposed by the politicians (on behalf of the wealthiest stake-holders) are inadequate at best and extremely damaging at worst. We are pounded by propaganda daily that shows us a world where EVERYTHING is pay-per-view (anyone see AI? There's a scene in which Jude Law says "In this day and age, nothing costs more than information." I sat up and said "WHAT THE FUCK? When communication is good, when technology flourishes, information is spread MORE EASILY and MORE CHEAPLY. This is obvious crap that the movie studios would LOVE to have us believe." I was simply shushed.) and everything is LICENSED and no information is yours. If we want to change that attitude, we need to let people know that we understand these issues better than they do and they'd better listen to our side. We have that power today. We have that power as a group. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From vsync at quadium.net Thu Jul 19 15:15:33 2001 From: vsync at quadium.net (vsync) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] flying out to san jose? Message-ID: <877kx44lbu.fsf@feynman.hurstdog.org> I'm in Denver right now, and it would cost me $362 to fly out there for the protest march. I'm seriously considering it. Anyone know of options for getting from SFO->San Jose? I don't particularly want to take CalTrain... If I don't do this, I'd be very interested in attending a Denver area protest, and so would my girlfriend, and possibly friends and relatives. Let me know if anything gets organized. -- vsync http://quadium.net/ (cons (cons (car (cons 'c 'r)) (cdr (cons 'a 'o))) ; Orjner (cons (cons (car (cons 'n 'c)) (cdr (cons nil 's))) nil)) From paul at paultopia.net Thu Jul 19 15:40:12 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any way for long-distance protest support? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010719163838.00e46d80@mail.paultopia.net> Hi, I'm sitting out here in Eastern Oregon (though I'll probably be in Portland on Monday) -- for me, and those like me, a long distance away from any A-doh-be offices, is there any support the protestors need that can be provided long-distance? -Paul Gowder -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From mdejong at cygnus.com Thu Jul 19 15:46:20 2001 From: mdejong at cygnus.com (Mo DeJong) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <20010719134358.F15006@zgp.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Don Marti wrote: > begin Mo DeJong quotation of Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 01:15:30PM -0700: > > > Some posters mentioned the need for a good "hook" > > that might get the media to cover a protest at > > Adobe. How about an eBook burning? > > Book burning == bad in most people's minds. This is about the > opposite of book burning -- book reading. Book burning is a powerful image. One could claim that turning a book into an eBook is the same as burning it. Either way people could be losing access to the ideas in the book. > And the second anyone starts a fire, message diluted, hazard created, > they have a reason to break it up, bad things all the way around. > > Please don't set anything on fire. And in all other things, please > be polite and on your best behavior. Don, you are being too literal. Someone mentioned a projector before. Why not incorporate that into a little program that displayed a burning eBook? It is just an idea, I am not saying it is a good one. My point was that when staging an event that you would like the mass media to cover, you have to simplify the message. Few people will understand a protest over encryption and the DMCA. On the other hand, "eBooks burned outside Adobe Headquarters" might interest a few readers. cheers Mo From sonjat at cs.unm.edu Thu Jul 19 16:01:51 2001 From: sonjat at cs.unm.edu (Sonja V. Tideman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker Arrest Stirs Protest In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719154553.03d67370@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Sure. Here is the information Sonja Tideman 970-419-8866 sonjat@cs.unm.edu On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > Sonja, > > Are you willing to act as the contact for the Denver > protest? If so, please provide your full contact > info (full name, telephone, and email address) > > Thanks, > > Will Doherty > Online Activist / Media Relations > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > Web http://www.eff.org > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > ------- > > At 04:25 PM 7/19/2001 -0600, vsync wrote: > >"Sonja V. Tideman" writes: > > > > > It looks like we will have a protest in Denver on Monday. The details > > > have not been ironed out (we are meeting at 7:30 tomorrow night at the > > > Boulder Bookstore's Cafe for anyone in the Denver area who would like to > > > >Where is this located? > > > >-- > >vsync > >http://quadium.net/ > >(cons (cons (car (cons 'c 'r)) (cdr (cons 'a 'o))) ; Orjner > > (cons (cons (car (cons 'n 'c)) (cdr (cons nil 's))) nil)) > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From rabbi at quickie.net Thu Jul 19 16:02:03 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Open eBook Forum In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719154305.03d61c78@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: http://www.openebook.org/feedback.htm Registering displeasure with the Board of the Open EBook Forum may be worth doing. (Sending mail to Tom Diaz is obviously worthless, but the others listed there should be alerted about current events...) Directors: Douglas Armati armati@intertrust.com Intertrust Tom Diaz tdiaz@adobe.com Adobe George Kerscher kerscher@montana.com Daisy Consotium Amanda Kimmel akimmel@randomhouse.com Random House Ed Mccoyd EMccoyd@publishers.org Ascn. American Publishers David Ornstein davidorn@microsoft.com Microsoft Steve Potash spotash@overdrive.com Overdrive General comments: info@openebook.org From maxomai at aracnet.com Thu Jul 19 16:05:15 2001 From: maxomai at aracnet.com (Michael C. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Area Malcontents? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719155411.02009420@pop3.norton.antivirus>; from wild@eff.org on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 03:54:38PM -0700 References: <20010719174440.E4588@tastytronic.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20010719155411.02009420@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20010719160515.C25314@aracnet.com> On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 03:54:38PM -0700, Will Doherty wrote: > Choose a federal courthouse or Adobe office. > > If you are willing to be the contact for a protest there, > please let us know right away! The Federal Plaza, located on the corner of Adams and Clark (I think, it's been a while) in Downtown Chicago, would be your best bet for a Chicago protest. (The most notable feature of this area is a huge statue that looks like a pink flamingo sticking its head in the ground.) Be sure to send out a notice on chicago.indymedia.org while you're at it. (I wonder if the ISO is going to show up with newspapers? :)) Mike Smith > Thanks, > > Will Doherty > Online Activist / Media Relations > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > Web http://www.eff.org > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age From rabbi at quickie.net Thu Jul 19 16:14:18 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A different angle In-Reply-To: <20010719112115.A14650@ofhell.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, bat out of hell wrote: > Well this might sound silly, but this is the angle I'm going to try. [snip] This is an excellent angle to try. Hit on all fronts. You may also want to write to the organizations and companies listed here: http://www.adobe.com/epaper/ebooks/community.html (Others who would like to contribute, but aren't sure how, may wish to join Sally in writing polite explainations of why they object to Adobe's actions, and mailing the publishers and distributors of ebooks.) Someone may wish to post the contact information from that page on this list, in case Adobe pulls that page down, Free Dmitry! Len From saint_sam at yahoo.com Thu Jul 19 16:16:00 2001 From: saint_sam at yahoo.com (Sam Gray) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Portland FBI, tax returns, and sick-out Message-ID: <20010719231601.30598.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> I've only seen messages from one other Portlander on this list. Given that there's not an Adobe building here, it seems that a demonstration would be a bit less mediagenic -- but what about in front of the offices of the FBI ? Maybe it's begging for a surveillance file, but from the media coverage they've already been getting, there's probably a good chance they'd lose it anyway. ;> If there's anyone else on this list from Portland interested in a demo, perhaps we could identify ourselves off-list? By the way, nobody has yet mentioned George II's $300 (or $600) tax refunds. This is going to be windfall cash for many of you -- please consider donating it to the EFF. I know I intend to put mine to good political use. As for the idea of a sick-out, I'm a bit skeptical -- do any of the Americans on this list remember the Gas-Outs that were supposed to bring our gas prices down? Despite that bit of cynicism, I do think it's a good idea, and if I were working for a company with more than two employees, myself included, I'd definitely be pushing my cow-orkers to come along. -Sam ===== "They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's some kind of federal program." - George W. Bush, St. Charles, Mo., Nov. 2, 2000 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From paul at paultopia.net Thu Jul 19 16:16:11 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] logistical stuff. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010719170524.00c624b0@mail.paultopia.net> A question: If there's going to be a Seattle area protest, who that lives in Portland will be going? I'll be in Portland on Monday anyway (though I absolutely have to, HAVE TO be back in Portland by Monday evening), can help organize a caravan, though I won't have a car there. Alternatively, does anyone want to hit the federal bldg in PDX? Who's the coordinator for Seattle? Has anyone contacted the National Lawyer's Guild for support? Also, is anyone in touch with the anti-globalization/wto/ftaa/imf crowd? Finally, for those who can't get to one of the protest cities, I suggest organizing protests at the federal buildings/fbi offices in major cities, especially DC (and NY if there isn't an adobe office there). Someone should also create a web site listing dates and protest locations, preferably on boycottadobe.com and the EFF site, that way those of us that are stirring up stuff nationwide will have a central protest page to point to. What protests are planned so far? I see San Jose, Denver, and Seattle reflected in the list messages I have. Someone also mentioned Boston, I really strongly think the FBI offices in DC should also be included... Are they all/should they all be at the same time as San Jose (11-1pdt, which would be 12-2mdt, 1-3cdt, and 2-4edt)? -Paul Gowder -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 16:16:47 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda In-Reply-To: <20010719153444.A17752@zork.net> References: <00b101c11064$2691fc00$0100a8c0@sharhan> <20010719153444.A17752@zork.net> Message-ID: <87zoa0a4rk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt writes: >> Personally I think the T-Shirts are nice, the use of the >> Russian symbology would turn many away. NM> Please, it is Soviet symbology, not Russian. ...unfortunately conflated in the mind of the American public. The fact that Sklyarov is Russian confuses the message of this symbol somewhat. It might be useful (although no longer timely) to come up with a symbol of oppression that is not so loaded with Cold War symbolism. For example... uh... a boot? My guess is that the horse is out of the barn on this one, though. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 16:20:01 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands Message-ID: <87vgkoa4m6.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Uh... do we want to present a list of demands to Adobe on Monday? What would those demands be? Also, could someone with some tiny bit of understanding of criminal law tell us if it's even possible for Adobe to do anything at this point to "drop" their complaint? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From rsb at ostel.com Thu Jul 19 16:48:39 2001 From: rsb at ostel.com (Rich Bodo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Howard Morland In-Reply-To: <20010719201617.4593.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: > The current Sklyarov arrest makes it look as if the Government thinks > revealing how to read a locked e-book is more dangerous than revealing > how to make an H-bomb. This is scary. The likelihood of someone using the e-book information is higher. Even a very rich person would have an incredibly hard time making an H-bomb, but if you explain ROT13 to a 6-year old he/she would eventually be able to decode a book, and it would be fun! Therefore, we must supress the knowledge of ROT13. Right? Wrong. The DCMA is being used to supress scientific knowledge on our watch and in our backyard. It's our responsibility to stop it. This is for profit, corporate ordered, government enforced, mandatory book burning. I don't know if anyone has suggested this, yet: Let's have a book burning. -Rich From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 16:27:30 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <87vgkoa4m6.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: On 19 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > Uh... do we want to present a list of demands to Adobe on Monday? > > What would those demands be? > > Also, could someone with some tiny bit of understanding of criminal > law tell us if it's even possible for Adobe to do anything at this > point to "drop" their complaint? I honestly don't think anyone from Adobe will even officially acknowledge you. Some cops might show up and that's about it. Please try and go into this as an awareness campaign and less like you think you're going to have demands met. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 16:30:50 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] logistical stuff. In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010719170524.00c624b0@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Paul Gowder wrote: > If there's going to be a Seattle area protest, who that lives in > Portland will be going? I'll be in Portland on Monday anyway (though > I absolutely have to, HAVE TO be back in Portland by Monday evening), > can help organize a caravan, though I won't have a car there. > Alternatively, does anyone want to hit the federal bldg in PDX? I'm working to organize in Portland. I think we can have a fair turnout. > Has anyone contacted the National Lawyer's Guild for support? No, but I have Alan's number here in my wallet... I'll give him a call. > Also, is anyone in touch with the anti-globalization/wto/ftaa/imf > crowd? I'm closely involved with (or involved with people who are involved with) the Indymedia core group, the Pacific Green Party (though I am not and will not be a member), the CFA, and a certain "bike army". All are committed to social justice. If I can convince them that this is important, they'll come out. (Hell, all I really have to say is that a corporation asked the FBI to jail someone and they did.) > Finally, for those who can't get to one of the protest cities, I > suggest organizing protests at the federal buildings/fbi offices in > major cities, especially DC (and NY if there isn't an adobe office > there). > > Someone should also create a web site listing dates and protest > locations, preferably on boycottadobe.com and the EFF site, that way > those of us that are stirring up stuff nationwide will have a central > protest page to point to. What protests are planned so far? I see > San Jose, Denver, and Seattle reflected in the list messages I have. > Someone also mentioned Boston, I really strongly think the FBI offices > in DC should also be included... Are they all/should they all be at > the same time as San Jose (11-1pdt, which would be 12-2mdt, 1-3cdt, > and 2-4edt)? I'm shooting for 11-13 PDT on Monday. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From bb at bb-zone.com Thu Jul 19 16:30:49 2001 From: bb at bb-zone.com (Bodo Bauer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Heise News Ticker covers case Message-ID: <20010719163049.A1595@bb-zone.com> FYI, the popular German news site www.heise.de has a short article on DMitry's case: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/daa-19.07.01-000 BB -- Bodo Bauer http://www.bb-zone.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010719/0ea84447/attachment.pgp From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 16:38:38 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] logistical stuff. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87hew8a3r5.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> So, do we have a Web page with the info for protests in each city (I count Seattle, Chicago, San Francisco, Denver, Portland, and maybe Moscow?)? Contacts, place, time? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From neale at woozle.org Thu Jul 19 16:40:18 2001 From: neale at woozle.org (Neale Pickett) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] logistical stuff. In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010719170524.00c624b0@mail.paultopia.net> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010719170524.00c624b0@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: Paul Gowder writes: > Who's the coordinator for Seattle? Until someone else steps in (and I do hope that's soon, I'm going to be in Vancouver, WA this weekend!) that's me. Neale Pickett 206-290-7309 From andrea at gravitt.org Thu Jul 19 16:43:39 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Atlanta? Message-ID: Someone has pointed out that there is, in fact, an Adobe office in Atlanta. I have no idea what is actually done there, or anything about it other than the address. Doing something at the same actual time (as opposed to same local time) would put it in the middle of the afternoon for us east-coasters. That might actually be better, given that the office is out in the 'burbs. The next question is, of course, who in Atlanta is interested. There is one other on this list that I know of, and I might get some interest from the se2600 folks. But I am concerned about the ability to stage an effective demonstration even if we could get people out. Based on the address I was given, the offices are almost certainly in a business park. That means private property, and I doubt standing on the side of a suburban highway will be of much help. (Although it is possible we could have a captive audience during rush (3) hour(s).) Andrea ------------------------------------------------------- feorlen at acm dot org From paul at paultopia.net Thu Jul 19 16:43:33 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: list of demands In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010719174014.00e4e8a0@mail.paultopia.net> > >Uh... do we want to present a list of demands to Adobe on Monday? > >What would those demands be? There isn't much they could do, except stop any pressure they are exerting on the FBI >Also, could someone with some tiny bit of understanding of criminal >law tell us if it's even possible for Adobe to do anything at this >point to "drop" their complaint? I know a little (not much!) about criminal law (I'm a Massachusetts lawyer, actually going to be in Portland to take the Oregon bar next week), and I can't think of much. They could stop their pressure, naturally. They could stop handing over evidence, etc. etc. etc. How much does the DOJ want to prosecute him without Adobe's cheering section? The protest is mainly, as I conceptualize it, a way to let future corporations know that calling in the feds will be met with resistance. -Paul -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From paul at paultopia.net Thu Jul 19 16:45:31 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Some Adobe substitutes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010719174442.00e4f450@mail.paultopia.net> Ghostscript and its companion program, gsview, can be used to read (and perhaps to save, not sure) postscript and pdf files on windows and various unix flavors. -Paul -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 16:48:52 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87g0bs7a57.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JAB" == Jeme A Brelin writes: Me> Uh... do we want to present a list of demands to Adobe on Me> Monday? JAB> I honestly don't think anyone from Adobe will even officially JAB> acknowledge you. Some cops might show up and that's about JAB> it. Having a list of demands gives a focus to the demonstration. "This is what we're asking from Adobe. This is why we're here." I think it was Nick who said that a protest with concrete goals cannot succeed. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 16:48:46 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <87vgkoa4m6.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719164648.03ee50d8@pop3.norton.antivirus> According to the criminal attorney who was just in the EFF office-- Adobe can no longer by themselves prevent the case from moving forward. However, if they withdraw the complaint they made to Department of Justice, then DOJ may decide not to move forward with the criminal charges from the government and they could release Sklyarov. That could be kind of embarrassing for them, but it is not entirely out of the question. Free Sklyarov, Will Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 04:20 PM 7/19/2001 -0700, Klepht wrote: >Uh... do we want to present a list of demands to Adobe on Monday? > >What would those demands be? > >Also, could someone with some tiny bit of understanding of criminal >law tell us if it's even possible for Adobe to do anything at this >point to "drop" their complaint? > >~Klepht > >-- >klepht@eleutheria.org >http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From rsb at ostel.com Thu Jul 19 17:22:01 2001 From: rsb at ostel.com (Rich Bodo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Book burning == bad in most people's minds. This is about the > > opposite of book burning -- book reading. TRUE. > Book burning is a powerful image. One could claim that turning > a book into an eBook is the same as burning it. Either way > people could be losing access to the ideas in the book. Also TRUE. Peaceful protestors regularly stage dramatic events that mimic the actions of irresponsible corporations all the time. It's very effective at getting news coverage and putting the actions being protested in the most negative light. It's also a little more ballsy and hardcore and less people are likely to want to do it. In general, very hard to pull off with a positive effect. It could work. Thing is, how do you mimic adobe? Wear adobe T-shirts? I can think of one dramatization along these lines that didn't mimic anyone. I absolutely hated flag-burning, but I have to admit they got a court case out of it and won. The idea had an initial appeal to me, but after consideration it has evaporated. Unless someone can think of a safe and effective way to put a positive spin on it, I have to agree with Don and suggest that people steer clear of book burning. > > Please don't set anything on fire. And in all other things, please > > be polite and on your best behavior. We definitely wouldn't want to step outside the parameters of event organization. That is exactly how to screw up a meaningful protest. > On the other hand, "eBooks burned outside Adobe Headquarters" might > interest a few readers. I think that particular headline would harm the cause. Especially for the majority of people who skim papers. Where these types of protests work as news is on TV with video and commentary. I imagine they also shock the hell out of the people they are mimicing. Maybe a Book Dousing would avoid that particular headline but have enough weird appeal to make it to the headlines all the same. -Rich Rich Bodo | rsb@ostel.com | 650-964-4678 From morganw at yahoo.com Thu Jul 19 16:54:54 2001 From: morganw at yahoo.com (Morgan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Future Bay Area protest sites? Message-ID: <20010719235454.33675.qmail@web13403.mail.yahoo.com> 1) Daniel O'Connell, the agent who swore out the affadavit and met with Adobe works for the "High Tech Squad at San Jose California" according to http://cryptome.org/usa-v-sklyarov.htm Based on http://www.fbi.gov/contact/fo/sanfran/sfcontact.htm and http://sanfrancisco.fbi.gov/contact/fo/sanfran/sfcomputer.htm I believe O'Connell works out of the San Jose Resident Agency of the FBI at 950 South Bascom, Suite 3011. 2) The U.S. Attorney's office that issued the press release about the chargest against Dimitry: 11th Floor, Federal Building 450 Golden Gate Avenue, Box 36055 San Francisco, California 94102 Any others? This might go on for a while.... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From bwilson at gene.COM Thu Jul 19 16:54:21 2001 From: bwilson at gene.COM (Brian Wilson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Heise News Ticker covers case References: <20010719163049.A1595@bb-zone.com> Message-ID: <3B57732D.243950C6@gene.com> If you want a good laugh put it into babelfish on altavista.com... "Allegedly the father was arrested by two children on 16 July before his hotel Alexis Park hotel of the FBI." Brian Bodo Bauer wrote: > FYI, the popular German news site www.heise.de has a short article > on DMitry's case: > > http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/daa-19.07.01-000 > > BB > -- > Bodo Bauer http://www.bb-zone.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Untitled25Name: Untitled25 > Type: Plain Text (text/plain) From maxomai at aracnet.com Thu Jul 19 16:57:22 2001 From: maxomai at aracnet.com (Michael C. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: ; from jeme@brelin.net on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 04:27:30PM -0700 References: <87vgkoa4m6.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010719165722.E25314@aracnet.com> On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 04:27:30PM -0700, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > On 19 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > > Uh... do we want to present a list of demands to Adobe on Monday? > > > > What would those demands be? > > > > Also, could someone with some tiny bit of understanding of criminal > > law tell us if it's even possible for Adobe to do anything at this > > point to "drop" their complaint? > > I honestly don't think anyone from Adobe will even officially acknowledge > you. Some cops might show up and that's about it. > > Please try and go into this as an awareness campaign and less like you > think you're going to have demands met. I concur. The purpose of a demonstration is to publicize your cause; trying to intimidate Adobe into meeting your demands with a demonstration is pointless. However, as awareness grows, they'll eventually realize that they made a boneheaded move from a PR standpoint. Hopefully other companies will learn from Adobe's mistake and not be so heavy handed when they get egg on their faces. > > J. Mike Smith From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 16:59:55 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Help Update Sklyarov Protest Contacts / Locations Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719165614.03d715c8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Folks, Here is the list of protest contacts and locations we have so far... please help fill in the missing pieces. This should be up on the EFF site momentarily. Thanks, Will ------- Here is a list of Free Sklyarov protest contacts and locations which will be updated on a rapid basis as we receive further information: MOSCOW (RUSSIA) Contact: Ilya V. Vasilyev, hscool@netclub.ru BOSTON (MA) Contact: C. Scott Ananian, cananian@mit.edu, 617 253-7710 work, 617 233-1238 cell CHICAGO (IL) Contact: DENVER (CO) Contact: Sonja Tideman, sonjat@cs.unm.edu, 970-419-8866 PORTLAND (OR) 11:00 am - 1:00 pm Terry Shrunck Plaza Meet outside the federal building Contact: Jeme A Brelin, jeme@brelin.net, 503-287-2304 RENO (NV) Contact: Sam Phillips, sam@dasbistro.com, 775-843-4114 SAN JOSE (CA) 11:00 am - 1:00 pm Adobe Headquarters Meet at Quetzalcoatl snake sculpture at South end of Cesar de Chavez Park, corner of South Market St. and West Carlos St., then marching to Adobe Headquarters, Contact: Will Doherty, help-sklyarov@eff.org, 415-436-9333 x111, 415-794-6064 (cell for use during action) SEATTLE (WA) Contact: Neale Pickett, neale@woozle.org, 206-290-7309 [Note: Neale is not available over part of the weekend, so if someone else can act as the contact, that would be great!] -end- From free-sklyarov at happycool.com Thu Jul 19 16:59:26 2001 From: free-sklyarov at happycool.com (Victor Piterbarg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda In-Reply-To: <87zoa0a4rk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: I think the symbol is quite fitting. The way I interpret the symbol is that Adobe is identified with the old Soviet Regime. The Soviet Regime is in turn identified with opression. Therefore, Adobe + Hammer/Sickle = opressive regime. -Victor -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Klepht Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 4:17 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt writes: >> Personally I think the T-Shirts are nice, the use of the >> Russian symbology would turn many away. NM> Please, it is Soviet symbology, not Russian. ...unfortunately conflated in the mind of the American public. The fact that Sklyarov is Russian confuses the message of this symbol somewhat. It might be useful (although no longer timely) to come up with a symbol of oppression that is not so loaded with Cold War symbolism. For example... uh... a boot? My guess is that the horse is out of the barn on this one, though. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 17:19:29 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <87g0bs7a57.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: On 19 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "JAB" == Jeme A Brelin writes: > JAB> I honestly don't think anyone from Adobe will even officially > JAB> acknowledge you. Some cops might show up and that's about > JAB> it. > > Having a list of demands gives a focus to the demonstration. "This is > what we're asking from Adobe. This is why we're here." I think it was > Nick who said that a protest with concrete goals cannot succeed. I think it's an absolute TRUE-ISM that if you don't have goals, you cannot succeed! How would you know when you're done? But seriously, your goal is to raise awareness. If one person becomes more aware, then you were successful. We don't need Adobe to DO anything. They cannot support you because they MUST have copyright protection. They're a SOFTWARE COMPANY. The depend on false scarcity. That scarcity is threatened by modern technology, so they do what they can to protect their business model. After all, while the DMCA is a piece of garbage and a gross violation of individual rights, it is probably the only thing that can save copyright in this modern age. We need to make the hard choice. Hopefully we'll come out on the side of people instead of software companies. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From vsync at quadium.net Thu Jul 19 17:21:01 2001 From: vsync at quadium.net (vsync) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Some Adobe substitutes In-Reply-To: <20010719155347.A25314@aracnet.com> References: <20010719155347.A25314@aracnet.com> Message-ID: <87snfs30ya.fsf@feynman.hurstdog.org> "Michael C. Smith" writes: > TeX: Industrial strength publishing software (think math books). > Output formats include dvi, pdf(!!) and html. There's a whole mess of > web pages on the software available at > http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Desktop_Publishing/TeX/ I used pdfLaTeX to generate http://quadium.net/random/free_dmitri.pdf ...(collapsing into a fit of evil giggles)... -- vsync http://quadium.net/ (cons (cons (car (cons 'c 'r)) (cdr (cons 'a 'o))) ; Orjner (cons (cons (car (cons 'n 'c)) (cdr (cons nil 's))) nil)) From rabbi at quickie.net Thu Jul 19 17:20:49 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Future Bay Area protest sites? In-Reply-To: <20010719235454.33675.qmail@web13403.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Morgan wrote: > 1) Daniel O'Connell, the agent who swore out the affadavit and > met with Adobe works for the "High Tech Squad at San Jose > California" according to http://cryptome.org/usa-v-sklyarov.htm > > Based on > http://www.fbi.gov/contact/fo/sanfran/sfcontact.htm > and > http://sanfrancisco.fbi.gov/contact/fo/sanfran/sfcomputer.htm > > I believe O'Connell works out of the San Jose Resident Agency of > the FBI at 950 South Bascom, Suite 3011. I've been there. It's a really small office, and the agents there don't seem too familiar with computer/internet technology. This angle is probable a waste of time, and just going to annoy the FBI and the agents involved (who are pretty much removed from things now that the arrest has been made, I believe). > 2) The U.S. Attorney's office that issued the press release > about the chargest against Dimitry: Probably a better place to write. -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From proclus at iname.com Thu Jul 19 17:24:08 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus realm) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Free substitutes for Adobe software Message-ID: <3B577A28.4857231A@iname.com> -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: proclus@iname.com Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov](no subject) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Size: 3982 Url: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010719/b43e5f2f/attachment.mht From maxomai at aracnet.com Thu Jul 19 17:27:05 2001 From: maxomai at aracnet.com (Michael C. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: ; from rsb@ostel.com on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 05:22:01PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010719172705.F25314@aracnet.com> On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 05:22:01PM -0700, Rich Bodo wrote: > > Book burning is a powerful image. One could claim that turning > > a book into an eBook is the same as burning it. Either way > > people could be losing access to the ideas in the book. > > Also TRUE. Peaceful protestors regularly stage dramatic events that > mimic the actions of irresponsible corporations all the time. It's > very effective at getting news coverage and putting the actions being > protested in the most negative light. It's also a little more ballsy > and hardcore and less people are likely to want to do it. In general, > very hard to pull off with a positive effect. It could work. Heh...old protesters call this Guerilla Theatre...basically it would be a short demonstration of what the offender is doing, and taking it to an extreme. For example: Someone shouts, "Look, you can read the back of this cerial box with this secret decoder ring!" Immediately the FBI tackles and beats the person. Stage blood flies everywhere. Congressman with cigar: "This might look heavy handed to you, but we've got to stop those evil hackers from breaking corporations' secret codes!" Applause from the CEO of Adobe. A similar idea: print up pamphlets to pass out. Printed backwards: "If you can read this sentence, you might be committing a felony." Then go on to explain what DMCA does and why it hurts free expression (all in regularly printed text, of course!) Mike Smith From pablos at kadrevis.com Thu Jul 19 17:27:56 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Indy Media In-Reply-To: <20010719160515.C25314@aracnet.com> References: <20010719174440.E4588@tastytronic.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20010719155411.02009420@pop3.norton.antivirus> <20010719160515.C25314@aracnet.com> Message-ID: <696456.995563676@[0.0.0.0]> > Be sure to send out a notice on chicago.indymedia.org > while you're at it. Good tip. People in all areas should alert indymedia.org so they can have people cover activities. pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From proclus at iname.com Thu Jul 19 17:32:25 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus realm) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Free substitutes for Adobe software References: <3B577A28.4857231A@iname.com> Message-ID: <3B577C19.91AEDE7B@iname.com> > We have shown that free software can beat > Apache to the punch on this new platform. We plan to have the GIMP at ****** > BTW, you may freely distribute verbatim copies of this email as you > like. Err sorry, please feel free to fix the typos, like that above if you choose to redistribute that ;-} Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 17:30:45 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: References: <87g0bs7a57.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719172941.03d96b60@pop3.norton.antivirus> I believe we want Adobe to withdraw the complaint they made to the Department of Justice regarding Dmitry Sklyarov and to refrain from initiating similar complaints in the future. Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- From jon at callas.org Thu Jul 19 17:34:43 2001 From: jon at callas.org (Jon Callas) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <20010719165722.E25314@aracnet.com> References: <87vgkoa4m6.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010719165722.E25314@aracnet.com> Message-ID: At 4:57 PM -0700 7/19/01, Michael C. Smith wrote: >I concur. The purpose of a demonstration is to publicize your cause; >trying to intimidate Adobe into meeting your demands with a demonstration >is pointless. However, as awareness grows, they'll eventually realize >that they made a boneheaded move from a PR standpoint. Hopefully other >companies will learn from Adobe's mistake and not be so heavy handed >when they get egg on their faces. > I thought the demand is the name of the mailing list: Free Sklyarov. Nothing more, nothing less. Remember, focus. I'll go back to what I said in my last posting. The issue that matters is how Sklyarov is being treated, it's not Adobe. Here's an analogy: suppose a neighbor of yours is having a loud party. Suppose that another neighbor calls the cops on the loud party. Suppose the cops burst in with night sticks, cracking heads and hauling people to jail. I can understand being peeved with the neighbor who called the cops (especially if you were at the party). But the real complaint is with the cops escalating a complaint into an incident. The objective is to get your friends out of jail. Don't misguidedly start telling your neighbor what a horrid person they are, if what you want them to do is to drop their complaint. It's counter-productive. Jon From maxomai at aracnet.com Thu Jul 19 17:35:46 2001 From: maxomai at aracnet.com (Michael C. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another DCMA case of interest Message-ID: <20010719173546.A31757@aracnet.com> Slashdot has news of another DMCA case, this one involving the RIAA and two professors who were intimidated into not publishing their research. http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/07/20/0018235&mode=nested Keep this in mind when you write up your anti-DMCA literature. Mike Smith From jono at microshaft.org Thu Jul 19 17:37:55 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719172941.03d96b60@pop3.norton.antivirus>; from wild@eff.org on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 05:30:45PM -0700 References: <87g0bs7a57.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <5.1.0.14.0.20010719172941.03d96b60@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20010719173755.B60299@networkcommand.com> Shouldn't we want a review of the DMCA as well? This would prevent other companies from taking similar action. On 19-Jul-2001, Will Doherty wrote: > I believe we want Adobe to withdraw the complaint they made > to the Department of Justice regarding Dmitry Sklyarov > and to refrain from initiating similar complaints > in the future. > > Will Doherty > Online Activist / Media Relations > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > Web http://www.eff.org > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > ------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010719/270b428c/attachment.pgp From jono at microshaft.org Thu Jul 19 17:40:50 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <20010719172705.F25314@aracnet.com>; from maxomai@aracnet.com on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 05:27:05PM -0700 References: <20010719172705.F25314@aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20010719174050.C60299@networkcommand.com> Rewrite the adobe part of Sklyarov's power point on the street in chalk in front of the building. On 19-Jul-2001, Michael C. Smith wrote: > On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 05:22:01PM -0700, Rich Bodo wrote: > > > Book burning is a powerful image. One could claim that turning > > > a book into an eBook is the same as burning it. Either way > > > people could be losing access to the ideas in the book. > > > > Also TRUE. Peaceful protestors regularly stage dramatic events that > > mimic the actions of irresponsible corporations all the time. It's > > very effective at getting news coverage and putting the actions being > > protested in the most negative light. It's also a little more ballsy > > and hardcore and less people are likely to want to do it. In general, > > very hard to pull off with a positive effect. It could work. > > Heh...old protesters call this Guerilla Theatre...basically it would > be a short demonstration of what the offender is doing, and taking it > to an extreme. > > For example: Someone shouts, "Look, you can read the back of this > cerial box with this secret decoder ring!" Immediately the FBI tackles > and beats the person. Stage blood flies everywhere. Congressman with > cigar: "This might look heavy handed to you, but we've got to stop > those evil hackers from breaking corporations' secret codes!" Applause > from the CEO of Adobe. > > A similar idea: print up pamphlets to pass out. Printed backwards: > "If you can read this sentence, you might be committing a felony." > Then go on to explain what DMCA does and why it hurts free expression > (all in regularly printed text, of course!) > > Mike Smith > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010719/f1f6af6d/attachment.pgp From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 17:45:43 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <20010719173755.B60299@networkcommand.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719172941.03d96b60@pop3.norton.antivirus> <87g0bs7a57.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <5.1.0.14.0.20010719172941.03d96b60@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719174433.03d93d20@pop3.norton.antivirus> Yes, we can't demand that of Adobe. But I agree that it should be part of the protest demands since others are taking place at non-Adobe locations. I expect that after the Adobe protest, there will be another San Francisco Bay Area protest at a federal courthouse where the case will be heard. Will Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 05:37 PM 7/19/2001 -0700, Jon O . wrote: >Shouldn't we want a review of the DMCA as well? > >This would prevent other companies from taking >similar action. > > > >On 19-Jul-2001, Will Doherty wrote: > > I believe we want Adobe to withdraw the complaint they made > > to the Department of Justice regarding Dmitry Sklyarov > > and to refrain from initiating similar complaints > > in the future. > > > > Will Doherty > > Online Activist / Media Relations > > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > > Web http://www.eff.org > > > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > > ------- > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 17:47:23 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87elrc5sv8.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JAB" == Jeme A Brelin writes: JAB> But seriously, your goal is to raise awareness. If one JAB> person becomes more aware, then you were successful. I thought our goal was to FREE SKLYAROV? JAB> We don't need Adobe to DO anything. I think it's already been brought up that if Adobe withdraws its complaint, there is a better chance that the prosecutors will drop the case and let Dmitry go home to his family. So, yes, we need Adobe to withdraw its complaint. JAB> They cannot support you because they MUST have copyright JAB> protection. They're a SOFTWARE COMPANY. They don't have to support us. They just have to surrender. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 17:49:20 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <20010719173755.B60299@networkcommand.com> References: <87g0bs7a57.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <5.1.0.14.0.20010719172941.03d96b60@pop3.norton.antivirus> <20010719173755.B60299@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <87ae205srz.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JO" == Jon O writes: JO> Shouldn't we want a review of the DMCA as well? This would JO> prevent other companies from taking similar action. That might make a good demand for people demonstrating before Federal Buildings, but it's not good to ask of Adobe. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From rms at privacyfoundation.org Thu Jul 19 17:47:58 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <87g0bs7a57.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <01f701c110b5$9efb9f60$6501a8c0@rmsnew> I think there needs to be only one demand: Adobe should do whatever it takes to get Dmitry freed from jail and on a plane back to Moscow immediately. Adobe has a lot of smart lawyers. I am sure they can figure out how to make this happen. Richard -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net] On Behalf Of Klepht Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 7:49 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands >>>>> "JAB" == Jeme A Brelin writes: Me> Uh... do we want to present a list of demands to Adobe on Me> Monday? JAB> I honestly don't think anyone from Adobe will even officially JAB> acknowledge you. Some cops might show up and that's about JAB> it. Having a list of demands gives a focus to the demonstration. "This is what we're asking from Adobe. This is why we're here." I think it was Nick who said that a protest with concrete goals cannot succeed. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From pablos at kadrevis.com Thu Jul 19 17:56:37 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Alternative Software list In-Reply-To: <20010719125754.E3224@aracnet.com> References: <20010719125754.E3224@aracnet.com> Message-ID: <799708.995565397@[0.0.0.0]> I've added a list of alternative software that people can use instead of Adobe Products to the Boycott Adobe site. Free and commercial sofware is fine for the list. If people want to send me other submissions, I'll post them as well. pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From rabbi at quickie.net Thu Jul 19 17:58:19 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719172941.03d96b60@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Exactly. Jon Callas stated the reasons for this very well in his post. For the new-comers, it can be found at: http://securitygeeks.shmoo.com/article.php?story=20010719141720141 We want Dmitry free. The quickest acceptable way to make that happen is for Adobe to drop their complaint. Without Adobe, the case is very weak. Secondarily, we want other companies to realize that actions like Adobe's in this case are an extreme PR fiasco. On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > I believe we want Adobe to withdraw the complaint they made > to the Department of Justice regarding Dmitry Sklyarov > and to refrain from initiating similar complaints > in the future. > > Will Doherty > Online Activist / Media Relations > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > Web http://www.eff.org > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > ------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From ldavids at northwestern.edu Thu Jul 19 17:59:30 2001 From: ldavids at northwestern.edu (Lloyd Davidson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010719194937.0323ea30@casbah.it.northwestern.edu> What about locking a book inside of a small safe instead of burning it? Burying it might be another apt metaphor. Both of these are more closely equivalent to the encryption of text that keeps its content hidden away then burning. Actually, however, I am not opposed in principle to encrypting books or other copyrighted content as an aid to stopping widespread copyright abuse and infringement, although I don't make my money directly from the sale of copyrighted materials. The experience of Napster has frightened publishers by its abuses of copyrighted materials and part of the drive to implement digital rights management systems to encapsulate digital materials partly derives from this experience. What I am opposed to is extracting unfair profits from the sale of copyrighted materials, especially overcharging for them and underpaying the creators themselves. How to define "unfair profits" is, of course, not simple. L. At 04:21 PM 7/19/2001 -0700, you wrote: >Message: 10 >Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:46:20 -0700 (PDT) >From: Mo DeJong >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net >Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? > >On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Don Marti wrote: > > > begin Mo DeJong quotation of Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 01:15:30PM -0700: > > > > > Some posters mentioned the need for a good "hook" > > > that might get the media to cover a protest at > > > Adobe. How about an eBook burning? > > > > Book burning == bad in most people's minds. This is about the > > opposite of book burning -- book reading. > >Book burning is a powerful image. One could claim that turning >a book into an eBook is the same as burning it. Either way >people could be losing access to the ideas in the book. > > > And the second anyone starts a fire, message diluted, hazard created, > > they have a reason to break it up, bad things all the way around. > > > > Please don't set anything on fire. And in all other things, please > > be polite and on your best behavior. > >Don, you are being too literal. Someone mentioned a projector >before. Why not incorporate that into a little program that >displayed a burning eBook? It is just an idea, I am not saying >it is a good one. > >My point was that when staging an event that you would like the >mass media to cover, you have to simplify the message. Few >people will understand a protest over encryption and the DMCA. >On the other hand, "eBooks burned outside Adobe Headquarters" >might interest a few readers. > >cheers >Mo From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 19 18:03:39 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719172941.03d96b60@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <87g0bs7a57.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <5.1.0.14.0.20010719172941.03d96b60@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <8766co5s44.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "WD" == Will Doherty writes: WD> I believe we want Adobe to withdraw the complaint they made to WD> the Department of Justice regarding Dmitry Sklyarov and to WD> refrain from initiating similar complaints in the future. So, we demand that... 1) Adobe immediately withdraw its complaint against Dmitry Sklyarov. 2) Adobe immediately and officially request that the US Attorney's Office drop the criminal case against Dmitry Sklyarov and release him from custody. 3) Adobe pledge to refrain from filing criminal complaints under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) in the future. 4) Adobe acknowledge that it is a disservice to its partners, its customers, and the scientific community to silence legitimate criticisms of its copy-protection schemes. 5) Adobe pledge its support for open and fair peer review of all Adobe copy protection schemes, particularly encrypted PDF and eBook. 6) Adobe pledge to work with the scientific and technical communities to amend the eBook architecture to preserve fair use rights for end users. I think this is a small list of straightforward and very middle-of-the-road demands. They are all within Adobe's power to effect, and they do not put Adobe into any untenable positions. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From karl.deabrew at binarything.com Thu Jul 19 18:04:17 2001 From: karl.deabrew at binarything.com (Karl De Abrew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Media coverage Message-ID: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F5C3@mail.roundtable.com.au> If anyone is aware of any new (July 19+) media coverage local or international, please email editor@planetebook.com and let us know so we can keep our index page current. http://www.planetebook.com/usvsklyarov Tks, -Karl _________________________________________ Karl De Abrew karl.deabrew@binarything.com http://www.planetpdf.com/ http://www.planetebook.com/ http://www.xmlarena.com/ http://www.binarything.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 19 18:06:13 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: ; from jeme@brelin.net on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 05:19:29PM -0700 References: <87g0bs7a57.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010719180613.A32403@zork.net> Jeme A Brelin writes: > We don't need Adobe to DO anything. They cannot support you because they > MUST have copyright protection. They're a SOFTWARE COMPANY. The depend > on false scarcity. That scarcity is threatened by modern technology, so > they do what they can to protect their business model. The copy protection technology that AEBPR defeats is not preventing people from copying Adobe software. It is preventing people from copying, and from making many other ordinary uses of, certain electronic books. Adobe doesn't _need_ to make software that prevents these uses. For many years, Adobe sold software which did not enforce these restrictions against users. For various reasons, some of Adobe's customers would like Adobe's software to enforce these restrictions and prevent these uses. But Adobe's software is still useful to Adobe customers even if it doesn't impose these restrictions. It's _more_ useful to certain customers when it doesn't. Allowing people to circumvent these restrictions in order to make legal uses does not imply the end of copyright, and there are many software companies (like ElcomSoft!) which currently rely on copyrights but don't think that these restrictions are a good thing for end users. A lot of us here are certainly free software enthusiasts as well as DMCA and CTEA critics; but we shouldn't allow anyone to get away with suggesting that opposing TPMs is the same thing as opposing copyright, or that opposing putting people in jail for "circumvention" is the same thing as opposing copyright. ElcomSoft's documentation is very clear that copyrights exist, that ElcomSoft does not advocate copyright infringement, and that software like AEBPR is designed to allow the purchaser of a copy to have more control over the possible uses of that copy. Adobe might not have intended for the user to have so much control, but Adobe could certainly change its mind on that point without giving up on copyright entirely. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From bill at scannell.org Thu Jul 19 18:07:57 2001 From: bill at scannell.org (Bill Scannell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Employees: Thanks for your support In-Reply-To: <200107191841.LAA23330@webmail.speakeasy.net> Message-ID: Hi Adobe Humans, To be honest, I didn't know quite what to expect when I sent out an email earlier today asking you to help out the cause. You surprised me. Thanks to all of you who came forward I have all the volunteers inside Adobe I can handle right now. Come Tuesday, there should be ample reading material on the Sklyarov situation and management's shameful involvement in it. Again, thanks! -Bill PS: Someone made the suggestion that employees stop putting in overtime until management shapes up. Perhaps that could be a topic of discussion on the new list? From proclus at iname.com Thu Jul 19 18:00:57 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Divestment? I think not... In-Reply-To: <20010719174617.A11084@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <200107200101.f6K110u04501@moerbeke> Here's a thought: Undermine the brand and value of Adobe products. When the stock price falls, by it up and vote the bums out! GPL all the source code. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From sam at dasbistro.com Thu Jul 19 16:18:48 2001 From: sam at dasbistro.com (Sam Phillips) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] a legal question... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010719143936.354bb008@dna-mail1.gene.com>; from bwilson@gene.COM on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 02:43:06PM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010719143936.354bb008@dna-mail1.gene.com> Message-ID: <20010719161848.H1607@dasbistro.com> On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 02:43:06PM -0700, Brian Wilson wrote: > > I am not a lawyer, but since this is a criminal case and not a civil one, > does it really matter at this point whether or not Adobe asks this case to > be dropped? Isn't this something the justice system will decide? Moreover, > what I'm asking, is that if we could get our way with Adobe, would it > matter, since the feds are involved pursuing him as a criminal, instead of > Adobe vs Dmitry in a civil matter. IANAL, but as the accuser you can always decide to drop charges. Look at domestic violence cases, where spouses drop charges. -- Sam Phillips http://www.dasbistro.com Reno Nevada From sam at dasbistro.com Thu Jul 19 17:39:25 2001 From: sam at dasbistro.com (Sam Phillips) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] More Reno information Message-ID: <20010719173924.L1607@dasbistro.com> To get a bit more together in the Reno area we'll be having an organizational meeting tommorow (Friday) night at my apartment. Feel free to email me offlist for address and directions. Cheers, Sam -- Sam Phillips http://www.dasbistro.com Reno Nevada From paul at paultopia.net Thu Jul 19 23:13:31 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] more on portland Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720001324.00e60ba0@mail.paultopia.net> I've also put together an egroup for planning the Portland action. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/portland-sklyarov-protest how on earth do you spell "soverign" ?? -Paul -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From adobedemonstrator at hotmail.com Thu Jul 19 20:57:35 2001 From: adobedemonstrator at hotmail.com (Adobe Demonstrator) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Demonstration vigil instructions Message-ID: >Note that these vigil picket suggestions are somewhat different from >the organized demonstration event on Monday Yes, the Monday event will be more of a free-for-all, with a diversity of signage encouraged http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html The point of the vigil picket is to impress Adobe's businesspeople. A unified appearance, calm demeanor, and plenty of handouts will be more well-suited to achieve that goal. All it takes to maintain a picket vigil during business hours is enough demonstrators able to effectively distribute their time. This list can be used to help, but exchanging private email addresses can't hurt. Hopefully, the EFF office staff will help coordinate the vigil after their kick-off. Free Sklyarov! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From paul at paultopia.net Thu Jul 19 23:19:36 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719231541.03937270@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <87elrc5sv8.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720001853.00e55290@mail.paultopia.net> Yea, they had that before the DMCA was passed. The DMCA is a drastic expansion of copyright rights, under the guise of an attempt to stop infringers from building tools for piracy. -Paul At 12:16 AM 7/20/01, you wrote: >Perhaps there is a way for them to get copyright protection >while still permitting fair use under copyright law? > >> JAB> They cannot support you because they MUST have copyright >> JAB> protection. They're a SOFTWARE COMPANY. > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From derek_gladding at altavista.net Thu Jul 19 23:20:22 2001 From: derek_gladding at altavista.net (Derek Gladding) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's family Message-ID: Anyone know of a route to send support/cards/whatever through to Dmitry's family ? They must be going through hell right now - I'd like to let them know that people care and are doing all they can. - Derek From shag-sklyarov at booyaka.com Thu Jul 19 21:27:31 2001 From: shag-sklyarov at booyaka.com (Paul Walmsley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Rocky Mountain IMC post; RMS' DMCA writings Message-ID: The following has just gone out on the Rocky Mountain IMC news wire. Anyone is free to use or modify it for their own use without restrictions. I would also commend Richard Stallman's writings on the DMCA. One is referenced below; also try the main document index at . Best regards to everyone of conscience on this list. Thank you all for speaking out for our freedom. - Paul -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE ** July 19, 2001 Earlier this week, a Russian graduate student named Dmitry Sklyarov was arrested after a presentation at a technical conference in Las Vegas, Nevada. His presentation concerned the flimsiness of the anti-fair-use software used in Adobe Systems, Inc.'s electronic book products. He was arrested on suspicion of violating the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, or DMCA, a United States federal law passed in 1998 by the 105th Congress as H.R. 2281. The DMCA provides for significant criminal penalties for anyone distributing information on bypassing "anti-circumvention devices" on copyrighted material. This arrest is significant for several reasons. It's the first test of the DMCA's criminal provisions. The FBI arrested a Russian national for acts supposedly committed in Russia. And he was arrested shortly after giving a scientific presentation on a legitimate computer science topic. On Friday, July 20, 7:30 PM, we'll be meeting at the Boulder Bookstore's coffeeshop (aka "the Bookend Cafe") at 1115 Pearl St. in Boulder. If for some reason we are unable to meet in the cafe itself, we'll be meeting just outside the cafe on the Pearl Street sidewalk mall. If you're outside the Rocky Mountain area, please see the EFF link below for details on actions in your area. Join us to help free Dmitry Sklyarov. Join us if you value your right to read and share books. And join us if you value scientists' right to share information freely at conferences. All these rights are under significant attack by e-book publishers and software vendors. For further information on the meeting, please see , or contact Sonja V. Tideman at . Also, for further background information on the situation, consider reading the following links: A reprint of the complaint and the July 18th New York Times article: The Electronic Freedom Foundation's protest information page: Thoughts about the DMCA: PlanetEbook's index of USA vs. Sklyarov-related stories: From jparks at onebox.com Thu Jul 19 20:38:45 2001 From: jparks at onebox.com (Jeff Parks) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] adobe forums Message-ID: <20010720033845.FHGC26282.mta04.onebox.com@onebox.com> Hello all, In case you weren't aware, Adobe hosts forums on their main site.. http://www.adobe.com/support/forums/main.html This is not a place for spam or abusive posts, but I believe Adobe would benefit from hearing from concerned customers. All who feel so inclined should take a few moments and do so. peace out __________________________________________________ FREE voicemail, email, and fax...all in one place. Sign Up Now! http://www.onebox.com From rabbi at quickie.net Thu Jul 19 23:23:46 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I do not have the time at present to address this email. Once I'm able to focus on other things, I certainly will come back to it. Thanks, Len On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Len Sassaman wrote: > > Find someone else to be your test case. An American. You, perhaps. > > I'm working on it. > > > > Maybe you're just trusting Felten v. RIAA. > > Maybe we want to see this 26 year old father of two returned to his family > > in his home country. > > Maybe we should wait and ask him which is more important to him: the > personal freedom of millions of other human beings or his ability to spend > more time with his kids. I know which one I'd choose. > > > > > 5) Adobe pledge its support for open and fair peer review of all Adobe > > > > copy protection schemes, particularly encrypted PDF and eBook. > > > Do you really want to see these schemes IMPROVED? Do you really want to > > > make it so that they have both legal AND technical ability to prevent you > > > from exercising your rights? > > > > Irrelevant to the topic of this list, but yes. > > It was made relevant by stating it as one of "our demands". > > > If they are going to sell a product, it should do what they are > > claiming. Copyright holders are trusting Adobe to provide security for > > their eBooks, and Adobe is failing to do so. > > It DOES do what it's claiming. It has an access control that, by the > standards of the DMCA, "effectively controls access". Circumventing that > control is illegal, so it doesn't matter what kind of job it does under > objective scrutiny. > > > If you don't like how eBooks function, don't buy them. > > And just "deal with it" when it become the dominant form of media? I > don't think so. > > If I'm going to be granting a person monopoly rights, I'm going to do it > for a good reason like public benefit. > > > > > 6) Adobe pledge to work with the scientific and technical communities > > > > to amend the eBook architecture to preserve fair use rights for end > > > > users. > > > It is simply NOT POSSIBLE to allow fair use and implement access controls. > > This is irrelevant to the topic of this list -- freeing Dmitry. > > The list is CALLED "free-dmitry", but we don't simply want him free. We > want it to be impossible to legally jail someone on this pretext ever > again. > > > But I will make the one comment that *no one* should be arguing that > > access controls be made illegal. Only that analysis of and attempts to > > defeat access controls should not be illegal. > > I'm arguing it and I'm sure you'd agree that I have every right to do so. > > > A copyright holder has the right to make whatever contract he wants > > when he licenses you his software. You just built a strawman argument > > that our enemies can knock down. I suggest you take this to a > > different, more appropriate list. > > First, what makes them a copyright holder? Copyright is something granted > to them by the public in return for public benefit. If the work isn't > public, it shouldn't be copyrighted. > > Second, a license is not sale. This is the bullshit we've been fed in the > last decade or two. They've convinced us that they don't SELL a copy of > their work to us anymore, they merely license it. The license exists to > impose arbitrary conditions on the public; conditions that are NOT part of > the agreement that gave them copyright on the first place. Licensing a > work is inherently NOT publication. > > I would argue that a person distributing information can either use legal > protection measures (a la copyright law) OR technological protection > measures (a la CSS), but not both. Using both allows the distributor to > get the benefit of a publicly sanctioned and subsidized monopoly without > necessarily benefiting the public in any way. > > Third, this list is exactly the forum for these issues. The arrest of > Dmitry Sklyarov is one symptom in the increasing disease of our > society. The primary indications of this disease are: destruction of the > public sphere, corporate control of government, and lack of national > humility. We need to use this atrocity to raise awareness of these > issues. Simply freeing Dmitry will leave us no further away from the > situation we were in on Saturday, before Dmitry's arrest. > > J. > -- > ----------------- > Jeme A Brelin > jeme@brelin.net > ----------------- > [cc] counter-copyright > http://www.openlaw.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From krburger at burger-family.org Thu Jul 19 21:11:49 2001 From: krburger at burger-family.org (Kenneth Burger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Don't you love politics? Message-ID: <001401c110d2$1909e520$0800a8c0@balthazar> Gee, I start talking about organizing a protest in Detroit and all of a sudden I'm getting packeted like mad by several different IP addresses. They managed to slow stuff down quite a bit but I could still get email and IMs through. It's amazing how much a little political activeness can scare people. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/793e31d1/attachment.htm From phr-2001 at nightsong.com Thu Jul 19 23:04:37 2001 From: phr-2001 at nightsong.com (phr-2001@nightsong.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Gallery of Adobe Remedies now open for visitors Message-ID: <20010720060437.10919.qmail@brouhaha.com> Dave Touretsky, curator of the famous Gallery of CSS Descramblers (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery) has now opened the Gallery of Adobe Remedies, at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery The Gallery will publish information about Adobe's access control mechanisms and the remedies people have devised to deal with them. Right now, the only exhibition in the Gallery is from Elcomsoft; future expansion is eagerly anticipated. Enjoy! From krburger at burger-family.org Thu Jul 19 20:51:16 2001 From: krburger at burger-family.org (Kenneth Burger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] logistical stuff. References: Message-ID: <047601c110cf$3a98ed60$0800a8c0@balthazar> I wouldn't mind putting it in as a note on a flyer. Speaking of which, what should I put on the flyers? I'm great at writing creative stories and such, but I'm not really good at persuasive articles. So far I appear to be the only one I know that's interested in doing this. My friends seem to think that it's a waste of time and not worth the trouble. It's probably going to have to be more than just me. If I do this it will have to be on the weekend or in the evening because trying to get time off from my job is a bad idea right now, but that's not to say that someone can't take 8-1, another take 1-6, and I'd take 6-10 on a weekday evening. By the way, my contact info is as follows: Kenneth R. Burger 810-977-1674 krburger@burger-family.org Please don't call after 10PM EDT though cuz other people in this house go to sleep early in the evening. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric C. Grimm" To: "Kenneth Burger" Cc: Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 11:02 PM Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] logistical stuff. > Kenneth Burger says: > > I'd like to organize one in Detroit, but I don't even know if there's a > federal building there anymore. > ________________________ > > There is. Right downtown at 231 W. Lafayette Boulevard. > ________________________ > > Plus I have no experience with this sort of > thing, but if anyone's interested in getting together to do some sort of > protest in the Metro-Detroit area, please > drop me a line. > ________________________ > > While you're at it, please try to drop in a secondary fordreallysucks.com > (check the Website) theme into the protest. The Ford v. 2600 case is still > pending in the Detroit Federal courthouse (no injunction, though!!!!). Our > latest papers are here: > http://www.2600.com/news/070501-files/2600_M_DISS.pdf > > If you want some bumper stickers -- either CODING IS NOT A CRIME (EFF) or > WWW.FORDREALLYSUCKS.COM (2600), I still have at least a few of both. > > Eric C. Grimm > CyberBrief, PLC > 320 South Main Street > P.O. Box 7341 > Ann Arbor, MI 48107-7341 > 734.332.4900 > fax 734.332.4901 > eric.grimm@CyberBrief.net > > > From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 23:28:44 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] logistical stuff. In-Reply-To: <87g0bs4ccf.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> References: <87hew8a3r5.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719232457.01fcde40@pop3.norton.antivirus> Stanton will likely be updating the EFF Alert page in about one hour from now with all the latest protest info from this list. It's quite the impressive list of Free Sklyarov protests at http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html (linked from center top of front page EFF website). Thanks to all of you for the rapid organizing... the sample leaflets, protest signs, and media releases will be listed on the EFF alert page tomorrow (Friday) during the day, as soon as I can get some sleep then return to work to collect it all together. If anyone has designs to share, please let us know. Free Dmitry, Will Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 06:29 PM 7/19/2001 -0700, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "NP" == Neale Pickett writes: > > Me> So, do we have a Web page with the info for protests in each > Me> city (I count Seattle, Chicago, San Francisco, Denver, > Me> Portland, and maybe Moscow?)? > > NP> I've thrown up a web page for Seattle, not much there yet but > NP> a map and times: > > NP> > >Excellent! Hey, don't forget to call the police, too. I don't know >what the story is, but apparently they like to be notified. I guess it >hurts their feelings if you have a cool protest and you don't invite >them. > >Also, I was mostly looking for something like the EFF alerts page, but >it makes sense for that page to link to yours. > >~Klepht > >-- >klepht@eleutheria.org >http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 19 23:31:40 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Welcome to Adobe subscriber Message-ID: <20010719233140.L32403@zork.net> I note the relatively recent subscription of our first list member who is actually verifiably at Adobe. As I said when I announced the list, the list membership will remain confidential, and I will not identify this subscriber (although subscribers at Adobe are welcome to identify themselves if they choose). Subscribers should be aware that this list is public and unprivileged (and that there are public archives which can now be searched, since Nick set up the ht://Dig search engine). We should also be aware that we have a number of friends at Adobe who are quite concerned by what's happening to Dmitry Sklyarov. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 23:41:17 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] more on portland In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720001324.00e60ba0@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Paul Gowder wrote: > I've also put together an egroup for planning the Portland action. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/portland-sklyarov-protest I ain't joinin' a yahoogroups thing for nobody, never. I have a mailman server here at bitmine.net if all we need is a mailing list. I've (badly) published a story (multiple times) at . I've already informed the editorial staff (they're pretty much all personal friends) about the duplicates and the typo in the html tag toward the bottom (missing quotation mark) that is preventing the last paragraph from being displayed. It'll be fixed in the morning. I'm looking at getting a group of people together on Saturday morning to work stuff out... who's game? Paul, Karl... who else? Give me a call. My phone number is on the EFF coordination site. We might be able to use one of the rooms at the temporary Nader office downtown, but don't quote me because I haven't even broached the subject with anyone who would have permission to allow such a thing. My house is empty for the weekend and I'm a few blocks from a Kinko's and a hardware store, so it might be a good place all around. I'll be at my office tomorrow, so write me and I'll send you that number. > how on earth do you spell "soverign" ?? That's right. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 23:44:29 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <87ae2040dw.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: On 19 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "JAB" == Jeme A Brelin writes: > Me> 6) Adobe pledge to work with the scientific and technical > Me> communities to amend the eBook architecture to preserve fair > Me> use rights for end users. > > JAB> Well, clearly here's where the real contention/misunderstanding > JAB> lies. > > JAB> It is simply NOT POSSIBLE to allow fair use and implement > JAB> access controls. > > Lesseee... looking over that point... not really seeing the words > "access control," "copy protection," "digital rights management" or > any such term. The only thing I see we're asking for is "fair use." Well, then we don't need a NEW eBook format... Adobe already has one called PDF. The eBook format exists SOLELY to remove the ability of the public to fairly use the work because there is no way to mechanically distinguish between infringing and non-infringing use of a copyrighted work. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 19 23:43:26 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Welcome to Adobe subscriber In-Reply-To: <20010719233140.L32403@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 11:31:40PM -0700 References: <20010719233140.L32403@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010719234326.M32403@zork.net> Seth David Schoen writes: > Subscribers should be aware that this list is public and unprivileged For the benefit of foreign readers or those not familiar with U.S. law: (My own impressions, again, as a non-lawyer.) Typically a party in a case can compel people to provide copies of documents that relate to that case, or compel them to testify about what they know. This is even true of information held by people who are not involved in the case at all. For example, if I had documents which related to Sklyarov's guilt or innocence, I could be required to provide them (and I could be called to testify as a witness, and I would have to say what I know). There are exceptions to this, which are called "privileges". One example is the privilege against self-incrimination in criminal cases (nobody may be compelled to testify about things which would incriminate himself or herself). Another is the attorney-client privileges (conversations and correspondence between lawyers and their clients are confidential, and testimony about them can't be required) and similar privileges for communications between married couples and between doctors, medical professionals, clergy, and those they serve. If you have information relating to this case which is truly confidential, you should consult a lawyer before writing it down or sending it to anyone. Supporters of Dmitry Sklyarov should be aware that investigators could require information from you, and that you could be required to testify at a trial. In addition, the list of subscribers to this list could be requested; if that happened, I would ask the attorneys at the EFF to oppose the request in court. I don't know whether any of that is likely to happen. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From rabbi at quickie.net Thu Jul 19 23:45:07 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] more on portland In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > how on earth do you spell "soverign" ?? > > That's right. No. Sovereign. -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From rabbi at quickie.net Thu Jul 19 23:45:44 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boycott Adobe by BUYING one share of stock! (fwd) Message-ID: FYI: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:44:25 -0500 (CDT) From: William Knowles To: DC-Stuff Subject: Boycott Adobe by BUYING one share of stock! C4I.org/InfoSec News has decided to help the cause of Dmitry Sklyarov with his fight against Adobe Software taking a recommendation of Boycott Adobe http://www.boycottadobe.com in divesting of all but one share of Adobe. C4I.org/InfoSec News with the help of OneShare has now made it easier for concerned parties to purchase just one share of Adobe stock suitable for framing, or for just attending the shareholder meetings. http://www.oneshare.com/stock.asp?company_id=169&cat_id=1 In order to assist in the cause, OneShare will reduce the OneFee by $10. To receive this discount, all the purchaser has to do is type "freedmitry" in the promotion code box during checkout. Any questions, comments, or complaints, contact either William Knowles or Lance Lee Founder of OneShare. Sincerely, William Knowles Moderator/Editor/Senior Analyst C4I.org/InfoSec News wk@c4i.org *==============================================================* "Communications without intelligence is noise; Intelligence without communications is irrelevant." Gen Alfred. M. Gray, USMC ================================================================ C4I.org - Computer Security, & Intelligence - http://www.c4i.org *==============================================================* From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 23:47:07 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719231541.03937270@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > > JAB> They cannot support you because they MUST have copyright > > JAB> protection. They're a SOFTWARE COMPANY. > Perhaps there is a way for them to get copyright protection > while still permitting fair use under copyright law? We had that in the fair use provision of the Copyright Act pre-DMCA. The DMCA gives those who would distribute copyrighted works the power to take ANY OTHER ARBITRARY CONTROL over the work IN ADDITION to those limited exclusive rights granted by the copyright act simply by enabling a "technological protection measure", however poorly. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Thu Jul 19 23:47:38 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] more on portland In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Len Sassaman wrote: > On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > > how on earth do you spell "soverign" ?? > > That's right. > No. Sovereign. Heh... I must be sleepy. Sorry. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 23:50:47 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Petition In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010719224222.01c06e28@pop.freeserve.net> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719234832.01faba90@pop3.norton.antivirus> A well-worded petition could be helpful... let's be careful to select the right recipient and the right message. For example, should the recipient be Adobe or the US Attorney's office? It probably goes without saying that an email petition is a poor idea... I am assuming you are referring to a web-based one, yes? Free Dmitry, Will Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 10:42 PM 7/19/2001 -0600, Emerson wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >Is there a petition letter anywhere? I'm willing to have one put up >on packetstorm, and if one doens't exist, would someone care to write >one we could put up? > >Emerson > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use > >iQA/AwUBO1e2rbAwpha8VR2jEQJBuwCgh9w9p9AwtWX98qOPb+1IuPz0NKEAoMUs >xlaOl/Eb5z2KBFE1KgkAUvWu >=VQaR >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >--- >"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism > by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw >Emerson : Project Director, www.PacketstormSecurity.org >upsetting the easily distressed since 1975! >et@c4i.org >ICQ UIN: 13396569, PGP Key available, just ask. > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 23:51:52 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Silly shirt/signage idea In-Reply-To: <200107200445.VAA19821@shell3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719235144.03968208@pop3.norton.antivirus> LOL! :-) At 09:45 PM 7/19/2001 -0700, Ethan Straffin wrote: >Just something I was kicking around. It might be a liiittle cheezy, and >I'm not sure if I'll have time to make it reality anyway...but if anyone >wants to play with it, be my guest. > >Homer Simpson, wearing a T-shirt that reads "Free Sklyarov," with a voice >balloon above his head reading "Doh!" Said balloon is positioned directly >over the "do" of the familiar Adobe logo. > >Ethan >-- >"First they ignore you; then they mock you; then they punish you; then >you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From karl.deabrew at binarything.com Thu Jul 19 23:53:01 2001 From: karl.deabrew at binarything.com (Karl De Abrew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Vladimir Katalov reports from the frontline Message-ID: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F60A@mail.roundtable.com.au> Vladimir Katalov reports from the frontline http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=179 -Karl From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 20 00:12:57 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] On SF Indymedia, Too Message-ID: <87hew82hvq.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Jeez, I coulda sworn I left the word "hacker" out of that title. http://sf.indymedia.org/display.php?id=101903 ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From wild at eff.org Thu Jul 19 23:19:25 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: <8766co5s44.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719172941.03d96b60@pop3.norton.antivirus> <87g0bs7a57.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <5.1.0.14.0.20010719172941.03d96b60@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719231836.038b9868@pop3.norton.antivirus> I am liking this list a lot! Thanks for working it out... Will >So, we demand that... > >1) Adobe immediately withdraw its complaint against Dmitry Sklyarov. > >2) Adobe immediately and officially request that the US Attorney's > Office drop the criminal case against Dmitry Sklyarov and release > him from custody. > >3) Adobe pledge to refrain from filing criminal complaints under the > Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) in the future. > >4) Adobe acknowledge that it is a disservice to its partners, its > customers, and the scientific community to silence legitimate > criticisms of its copy-protection schemes. > >5) Adobe pledge its support for open and fair peer review of all Adobe > copy protection schemes, particularly encrypted PDF and eBook. > >6) Adobe pledge to work with the scientific and technical communities > to amend the eBook architecture to preserve fair use rights for end > users. > >I think this is a small list of straightforward and very >middle-of-the-road demands. They are all within Adobe's power to >effect, and they do not put Adobe into any untenable positions. > >~Klepht > >-- >klepht@eleutheria.org >http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From drumz at best.com Fri Jul 20 00:12:54 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interesting statement from Elcomsoft Message-ID: <200107200712.AAA20122@shell3.ba.best.com> This sentence from caught my eye: "In addition, we would like to state our intention to publish the sources of our software in the Internet, and do our best to make them available to everyone all over the world if Adobe Systems continues to pursue us." Ethan -- "The salvation of mankind lies only in making everything the concern of all." -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 00:15:47 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] portland web page In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010719233403.00e71cc0@mail.paultopia.net> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720001529.03972a78@pop3.norton.antivirus> Excellent work! You rock! Free Dmitry, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 11:34 PM 7/19/2001 -0600, Paul Gowder wrote: >Quick-n-dirty Portland page up. > >http://www.paultopia.net/adobe/ > >Suggestions/comments/corrections? > > -Paul > >-- > -Paul Gowder > >"It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." > - Homer Simpson > > > >-- > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jstyre at jstyre.com Fri Jul 20 00:12:40 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Welcome to Adobe subscriber In-Reply-To: <20010719234326.M32403@zork.net> References: <20010719233140.L32403@zork.net> <20010719233140.L32403@zork.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010720000902.00c1f8e0@earthlink.net> At 11:43 PM 07/19/2001 -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote: >For the benefit of foreign readers or those not familiar with U.S. >law: > >(My own impressions, again, as a non-lawyer.) >Supporters of Dmitry Sklyarov should be aware that investigators could >require information from you, and that you could be required to testify >at a trial. In addition, the list of subscribers to this list could >be requested; if that happened, I would ask the attorneys at the EFF >to oppose the request in court. I don't know whether any of that is >likely to happen. The first case the crack EFF lawyers would cite, though not the last, is N.A.A.C.P. v. Alabama, 357 U.S. 449 (1958), http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=357&invol=449 -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 00:26:06 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sovereign not soverign In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720001324.00e60ba0@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720002531.03920030@pop3.norton.antivirus> Sovereign From branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net Fri Jul 20 00:29:16 2001 From: branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net (Branden Robinson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] more on portland In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720001324.00e60ba0@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <20010720022916.C2708@deadbeast.net> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 12:13:31AM -0600, Paul Gowder wrote: > I've also put together an egroup for planning the Portland action. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/portland-sklyarov-protest > > how on earth do you spell "soverign" ?? "Sovereign". Like "reign", as in "Queen Victoria reigned for most of the 19th Century", with a "sove" in front of it. -- G. Branden Robinson | "Why do we have to hide from the police, Debian GNU/Linux | Daddy?" branden@deadbeast.net | "Because we use vi, son. They use http://www.deadbeast.net/~branden/ | emacs." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/5e14fd05/attachment.pgp From mh_sklyarov at cryptonomicon.net Fri Jul 20 00:28:50 2001 From: mh_sklyarov at cryptonomicon.net (Matthew S. Hamrick) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boycott America ???? Message-ID: While it will probably take a lot more than a large multi-million dollar company convincing the USAG to throw a Russian programmer in the hoosegow to make me want to leave the country, I can't help but think about the parallels between some of the things I've been hearing from friends and on this list and the recent "defection" of a well-know stem-cell researcher from the US to the UK. Of the industrialized nations, the US has some of the most innocuous regulations concerning export of crypto software and restriction on the actions of cryptographers. Be that as it may, I still think that there may be a crypto coder or two out there who's begun to look over their shoulder, wondering when the other shoe is going to drop. So, the question is, assuming you're a crypto coder, what would it take for you to want to pack your bags and relocate to another country? On one hand, you have your Vince Cate's who have moved off-shore, purportedly as a protest to various US policies. On the other hand you have your Phil Zimmerman's who by all rights should have left years ago, but stayed. I know it's slightly off-topic, and has nothing to do with directly freeing Mr. Sklyarov, but it is an interesting question, and the answers to these types of questions might help in explaining to US policy-makers why this community is so disappointed with the actions of the USANDCA. -Sincerely, -Matt Hamrick From crism at maden.org Fri Jul 20 00:34:36 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Ashcroft in Mountain View, 20 July Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720003236.00a49050@mail.maden.org> Did anyone else notice this on cryptome.org? 19 July 2001: The Department of Justice has sent out today an embargoed announcement of US Attorney General John Ashcroft's appearance tomorrow in Mountain View, CA, to speak on cybercrime: ----- Department of Justice For Planning Purposes Only - Not For Release AG July 19, 2001 (202) 616-2777 www.usdoj.gov TDD (202) 514-1888 In CA: Lani Miller, (703) 395-4484 Washinton, DC -- Attorney General John Ashcroft will visit Northern California tomorrow, Friday, July 20, to discuss cybercrime issues. When: 11:115AM (Pacific Time), Friday, July 20 What: Attorney General News Conference Regarding Cybercrime Where: VeriSign Worldwide Headquarters 487 East Middlefield Road Mountain View, CA Does anyone know if this will be open to the public? -Chris -- Christopher R. Maden, XML Consultant DTDs/schemas - conversion - ebooks - publishing - Web - B2B - training PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From jeme at brelin.net Fri Jul 20 00:50:56 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Ashcroft in Mountain View, 20 July In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720003236.00a49050@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Christopher R. Maden wrote: > Did anyone else notice this on cryptome.org? I believe we discussed this a bit earlier. > Washinton, DC -- Attorney General John Ashcroft will visit Northern > California tomorrow, Friday, July 20, to discuss cybercrime issues. > > When: 11:115AM (Pacific Time), Friday, July 20 > > What: Attorney General News Conference > Regarding Cybercrime > > Where: VeriSign Worldwide Headquarters > 487 East Middlefield Road > Mountain View, CA My question is: WHY THE HELL is the Attorney General speaking about "cybercrime" at the headquarters to a PRIVATE CORPORATION?!? This corporation doesn't have the public's best interest in mind when it makes policies and should have no more right to direct consultation with our executives than any REAL PERSON in this country (personally, I'd argue that it has LESS right than a real person, being a legal fiction and all). J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jurassic at df.ru Fri Jul 20 00:31:32 2001 From: jurassic at df.ru (=?koi8-r?B?9y7gLg==?=) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] free-sklyarov Message-ID: <008001c110ee$05010ba0$5da12ac3@vladimir> Free-Sklyarov! From cobr1977 at ufacom.ru Fri Jul 20 00:35:04 2001 From: cobr1977 at ufacom.ru (=?koi8-r?B?98nL1M/SIOTP0s/GxcXX?=) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (no subject) Message-ID: <001b01c110ee$8fa1efe0$961616ac@ufacom.ru> ? ?????????. ??????. ___ /oo \_ __\ - / ) (__ / / \ / _\ `"""""`` -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/f8275103/attachment.htm From krw5 at qwest.net Fri Jul 20 00:22:01 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattlites Message-ID: <01072000220103.03031@stumpy> Any fellow Seattlites on this list? One of Adobe's facilities is in the Fremont neighborhood of Seattle. Thousands of Boycott Adobe t-shirts appearing during the Fremont Sunday market (next to Adobe's office) and a well-timed call to the Seattle P.I. might be in order... Ping me directly if you're interested. I'll do a head count. From jono at microshaft.org Fri Jul 20 01:00:55 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Ashcroft in Mountain View, 20 July In-Reply-To: ; from jeme@brelin.net on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 12:50:56AM -0700 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720003236.00a49050@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <20010720010055.B64309@networkcommand.com> > > When: 11:115AM (Pacific Time), Friday, July 20 > > > > What: Attorney General News Conference > > Regarding Cybercrime > > > > Where: VeriSign Worldwide Headquarters > > 487 East Middlefield Road > > Mountain View, CA > > My question is: WHY THE HELL is the Attorney General speaking about > "cybercrime" at the headquarters to a PRIVATE CORPORATION?!? > > This corporation doesn't have the public's best interest in mind when it > makes policies and should have no more right to direct consultation with > our executives than any REAL PERSON in this country (personally, I'd argue > that it has LESS right than a real person, being a legal fiction and all). > You are right on the money with this one. Who controls your SSL Certificates? Who controls the Root Nameservers? What crypto keys are escrowed and to whom? Anyone got any other control Verisign wields or a list of the escrowed keys? The plot keeps getting thicker... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/3826a4c7/attachment.pgp From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 20 01:04:12 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Ashcroft in Mountain View, 20 July In-Reply-To: <20010720010055.B64309@networkcommand.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720003236.00a49050@mail.maden.org> <20010720010055.B64309@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <874rs82fib.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JO" == Jon O writes: JO> The plot keeps getting thicker... I suspect fluoridated tap water may be at the bottom of all of this. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 01:08:17 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattlites In-Reply-To: <01072000220103.03031@stumpy> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720010753.0660a6b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Please coordinate Seattle efforts with Neale Pickett neale@woozle.org 206-290-7309 (cell) At 12:22 AM 7/20/2001 -0700, Roger Kramer wrote: >Any fellow Seattlites on this list? > >One of Adobe's facilities is in the Fremont neighborhood of Seattle. >Thousands of Boycott Adobe t-shirts appearing during the Fremont Sunday >market (next to Adobe's office) and a well-timed call to the Seattle P.I. >might be in order... > >Ping me directly if you're interested. I'll do a head count. > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From prostoalex at hotbox.ru Fri Jul 20 01:08:49 2001 From: prostoalex at hotbox.ru (Alexander Moskalyuk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] newsflash! TV interview available Message-ID: <200107200808.f6K88nY46490@www2.mailru.com> http://www.ktnv.com/news/jul01/top0718.asp Best regards, Alexander Moskalyuk http://www.moskalyuk.com/ ICQ 44065387 From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 20 01:31:43 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Reminder to Protest Organizers Message-ID: <87u2080zo0.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Just a hint to local protest organizers: tomorrow (Friday PST) is the last work day before Monday morning. That means that your best chance of getting announcement info in front of locals on the EFF page is early in the morning. Every hour that goes by is someone who's not going to show. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From pablos at kadrevis.com Fri Jul 20 01:53:35 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] PDF cracking and accessibility Message-ID: <127043.995594015@[10.0.1.220]> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Friday, July 20, 2001 10:32 AM +0200 From: Marcus Groeber To: "nicehair@boycottadobe.com" Subject: PDF cracking and accessibility Hi "boycottadobe.com", one very interesting aspect that I came across with regards to PDF cracking: There is a rather legitimate use of such tools that seems to be often overlooked: accessibility by the disabled, especially blind people. I just recently witnessed a situation where machine-readable manuals in PDF format were inaccessible to screen reading programs for the blind because of the "no export" flag being set. Only the use of a PDF cracker (by Elcomsoft :-)) made it possible for blind users to get to the information - all this despite Adobe's ostentative commitment to accessibility. In other words, not allowing the cracking of PDF files may be a violation of the "Section 508" accessibility rules that many companies have recently scrambled to comply with... Maybe this helps. ;-) ciao marcus ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- From mosengc at qwest.net Fri Jul 20 01:07:07 2001 From: mosengc at qwest.net (Chris Moseng) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Minneapolis/St. Paul Message-ID: <3B57E6AB.182132AD@qwest.net> Just joining the list. Is anyone in the MSP area planning an event for Monday? There is an Adobe building in Arden Hills (North of Roseville, West of St. Paul, East of Minneapolis) ripe for protesting, though visiting Adobe has a sense of futility about it since they can't very well undo what they've done. A federal building in Minneapolis is an option, too. What's the scoop? -- http://www.underwhelm.org mosengc@qwest.net From pablos at kadrevis.com Fri Jul 20 01:52:00 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Doesn't make sense? In-Reply-To: <85.d519a51.28893625@aol.com> References: <85.d519a51.28893625@aol.com> Message-ID: <121334.995593920@[10.0.1.220]> Mike, Thanks for your thoughtful note, you put a lot more into it than most of the mail I've been getting. I have some of the same concerns as you and thought I should point out why my view differs slightly. Dmitry is certainly not to blame. He is employed as a programmer by Elcomsoft and has done research on eBook security and written software that makes use of his findings. All of this is legal in Russia where he lives. If someone takes issue with the distribution of this software in the U.S. they should do so with the people running the company, or the U.S. sales agent. In any case, Dmitry is the wrong target. As a member of The Shmoo Group of information security professionals, I believe in Full Disclosure Security . This is generally practiced by giving the vendor some lead time to address the security issues at hand, but in any case, the vulnerabilities must be exposed. Believe it or not, this serves everyone's best interests. Adobe and other eBook vendors have implemented childish copy protections and sold them to their customers for several thousand dollars alleging that they can protect their content. Those customers have been swindled. By exposing the truth about eBook security, Dmitry does a service to everyone who uses it. Adobe should take this to heart and improve the security of their product. I understand that as a shareware author, putting more effort into copy protection is not economical for you. It is true that copy protection is a losing battle in a war of escalation. You cannot except by constantly raising the bar. I'd suggest this is one reason that shareware exists, for the authors who are not going to play that game. Shareware doesn't need copy protection, because the business model is built on users sharing the software. Unfortunately, this business model has not sufficiently rewarded shareware developers for their efforts. At the same time, Adobe's business model hase more than rewared them for their dismal efforts. Remember, eBook is a product sold specifically for security features. The authors who create books that are supposed to be protected by eBook are the ones taking a loss. Additionally, as Americans, we take a loss when we give up crucial freedoms such as fair use to protect a fleeting business opportunity such as copyright under the DMCA. Thanks again, Pablos Kadrevis. --On Friday, July 20, 2001 3:22 AM -0400 "Worldlist@aol.com" wrote: > I've read about the matter. And if he had been a real security expert. He > would have told Adobe what he did in the first place and shown them their > mistake. Contracted out to Adobe as security. If they were not > interested. Then he should have moved on to something else. Or at best, > just shown his peers the skills he had learned, and applied. And not > distributed the crack on CD's to all of his peers to enjoy for free. > People seem to think that programs should be free for the taking, and the > poor mans, or companies work shouldn't be rewarded. And as being a small > shareware author myself, I tell you, it is so frustrating when someone > cracks my programs. I have so many bills, so many responsibilities to my > family, and when this happens it just breaks my heart. Now I know he is > a great programmer-engineer, and should be very proud of his work and > want to show it off. But the tit for tat battle between his company and > Adobe is not an honorable thing to me. He is trying to circumvent their > hard work more as a Samurai then a security expert. > Anyway that's my two cents. Oh, why I choose the nice side. Because I > think you guys are the real heroes. Standing up for your friend like you > have is very Admirable! > Right or wrong ... Cheers! > > Mike O'Rourke -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Jul 20 01:53:19 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] newsflash! TV interview available In-Reply-To: <200107200808.f6K88nY46490@www2.mailru.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Alexander Moskalyuk wrote: > http://www.ktnv.com/news/jul01/top0718.asp For the benefit of those who don't want to deal with the quirks of KTNV's flash interface and/or have a difficulty understanding Russian accents, here's a transcript. Needless to say, all material below is (c)2001 by KTNV, and you should probably go to their site before reading this and click some banners anyway just to be fair to the one media source that actually managed to get access to Dmitriy directly. [FYI: I took the liberty of taking a couple of phrases that were particularly hard to understand in English, translating them back to Russian verbatim, and putting the appropriate English idiomatic equivalent in brackets; pauses and such preserved to the best of my abilities] ++++++++++++++++TRANSCRIPT++++++++++++++ DS: They just uh produce some software which is not...not enough good ["good enough" -AF] and well small Russian company prove that it's not good, they take some measures to shut up our company. And...and during my researches, I found that uh many solutions for e-book...electronic books processing and distribution are insecure, while companies that provide such solutions claims that solutions are very...very secure and reliable for publishers. And uh some program was developed which demonstrates some flaws...security flaws in solutions in different e-book systems, not only Adobe but some others. And uh that's all. And that was enough for Adobe to start action against our company. But the program exists and it can do that she do ["it does what it does" -AF]. And so uh there is a real proof of insecurity of e-book systems. CJ: Why are you doing this? You know it's hurting another company. Why are you doing it? You... Obviously you must know it's illegal. Why. Did you do this? It's illegal... DS: It's not illegal in Russia, and I am working in Russia. I am not a company chief, I am just a programmer. I work for my company and I do that work that I am...that I am asked for. And uh when I develop this program I were in Russia and under Russian law and American law can't be applied to me anyway. And after that company where I am working decided to distribute the program, but I am not a distributor, I am just a programmer. So ... so the distribution is not my care ["is not my responsibility" -AF]. So... CJ: Did you know that it was illegal in the United States? DS: I am not sure that providing some ... some facts about insecurity of other systems is illegal, and that's what all I do. CJ: They're calling it copyright . DS: I... I just wrote the program to demonstrate security flaws, it's not for copyright violation. CJ: And a lot of people are saying that the law that started this is very controversial. Do you think it will stand up in court? Do you think you will get off? DS: I hope I will be get off. I, uh, do nothing illegal. +++++++++++++++++END+OF+TRANSCRIPT+++++++++++++ -- Alex Fabrikant alexf at hkn.berkeley.edu From pablos at kadrevis.com Fri Jul 20 02:04:40 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interesting statement from Elcomsoft In-Reply-To: <200107200712.AAA20122@shell3.ba.best.com> References: <200107200712.AAA20122@shell3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <166951.995594680@[10.0.1.220]> This may be a poor choice for the company to make as it could be construed as blackmail. I'll leave it to the EFF lawyers to advise Elcomsoft on this. pablos. --On Friday, July 20, 2001 12:12 AM -0700 Ethan Straffin wrote: > This sentence from caught my eye: > > "In addition, we would like to state our intention to publish the sources > of our software in the Internet, and do our best to make them available to > everyone all over the world if Adobe Systems continues to pursue us." > > Ethan > -- > "The salvation of mankind lies only in making everything the concern of > all." -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From bryan at bcpub.com Thu Jul 19 22:28:54 2001 From: bryan at bcpub.com (Bryan Dumm) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Defense.... Message-ID: <200107200929.FAA27091@jerry.bcpub.com> Howdy, Just curious on the possible defenses for sklyarov? In a url mentioned earlier(cleaned my mail :( ), there was a page that had screenshots of the program. They also started to make the argument that Elcomsoft is the real copyright holder, and that sklyarov is not. This was shown with sklyarov being credited in one version and then the next version did not have the sklyarov credit. Also the about box did not have a credit to him, and this was all done before the conference. I don't know if it was done before the FBI investigated. Is this a possible defense? What about with his public interview saying something along the lines of "DS: It's not illegal in Russia, and I am working in Russia. I am not a company chief, I am just a programmer. I work for my company and I do that work that I am...that I am asked for. And uh when I develop this program I were in Russia and under Russian law and American law can't be applied to me anyway. And after that company where I am working decided to distribute the program, but I am not a distributor, I am just a programmer. So ... so the distribution is not my care ["is not my responsibility" -AF]. So..." Opinions? Wouldn't the recipient of the money also be a possible defense? ie company receives money not sklyarov? This is the only leverage the FBI had right, the money exchange? ie it gave them jurisdiction? Or what about if he did make it, which is not illegal in Russia, but Elcomsoft made the money? Bryan From jason at d13.com Fri Jul 20 02:34:03 2001 From: jason at d13.com (jason@d13.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Southern California? Message-ID: <20010720023403.A21326@d13.com> Anybody on this list in Southern California? I think a protest is in order. At one time there was a small adobe office in Irvine, http://www.educause.edu/memdir/corp-profiles/30880.html The Federal building in West LA or the Federal Court in downtown LA would also be good places to show support for Dmitri. From adobedemonstrator at hotmail.com Fri Jul 20 02:40:38 2001 From: adobedemonstrator at hotmail.com (Adobe Demonstrator) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Director Robert Sedgewick contact info Message-ID: On the Adobe Board of Directors, our most likely supporter will probably be Robert Sedgewick, a Computer Science Professor at Princeton University. He is listed in their directory: Robert Sedgewick Department of Computer Science Princeton University Princeton, NJ 08544 email: rs@cs.Princeton.EDU telephone: 609-258-4345 homepage: http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~rs/ Free Sklyarov! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From prostoalex at hotbox.ru Fri Jul 20 02:41:52 2001 From: prostoalex at hotbox.ru (Alexander Moskalyuk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] idea for San Jose protesters Message-ID: <200107200941.f6K9fql78052@www3.mailru.com> I was going through my picture collection and when I was in San Jose I took several pics by the Adobe building, since it was right across the street from the hotel. Anyway, right in front of the Adobe building there is quite an ugly sculpture. http://moskalyuk.com/img/idf/013.htm Regardless of its artistic beauty, could that be used for something like a big sign? Before Monday could someone do a really big sign with Free Dmitry slogan and BoycottAdobe.com? That would (a) turn the attention of press, (b) turn the attention of the Adobe employees, (c) turn the attention of people in San Jose Convention Center, and there is constantly a tech conference going there (I might be wrong on this, though). Best regards, Alexander Moskalyuk http://www.moskalyuk.com/ ICQ 44065387 From prostoalex at hotbox.ru Fri Jul 20 02:50:01 2001 From: prostoalex at hotbox.ru (Alexander Moskalyuk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] idea for San Jose protesters Message-ID: <200107200950.f6K9o1q78539@www3.mailru.com> > Hmmm... is the sculpture on Adobe's property ? > > - Derek Technically, I think, it is. Although if you walk on the sidewalk and are free to do it, that's where sculpture is, so it might be city property. Best regards, Alexander Moskalyuk http://www.moskalyuk.com/ ICQ 44065387 From crism at maden.org Fri Jul 20 02:57:14 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] idea for San Jose protesters In-Reply-To: <200107200950.f6K9o1q78539@www3.mailru.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720025536.00a52ae0@mail.maden.org> At 02:50 20-07-2001, Alexander Moskalyuk wrote: > > Hmmm... is the sculpture on Adobe's property ? > > > > - Derek > >Technically, I think, it is. Although if you walk on >the sidewalk and are free to do it, that's where >sculpture is, so it might be city property. The Adobe building is not rectangular. The entryway is set back; even though the area in front of it is paved contiguously with the sidewalk, it is most likely private property. Hanging a banner on the statue or otherwise interfering with it could well be used as grounds for a vandalism arrest - charges probably wouldn't be brought, but it would be sufficient to break up the protest. I'd stick with hand-held signs. -Chris -- "You will find that the State is the kind of organization which, though it does big things badly, does small things badly too." - J.K. Galbraith === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From igor at locosun.com Fri Jul 20 03:01:05 2001 From: igor at locosun.com (igor@locosun.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Sklyarov meets Copyright, East meats West Message-ID: <3B580161.37AEDD7@locosun.com> Dear Peter, I'm greatly disappointed by the article http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=177 you posted on planetbook.com (which otherwise provides a good coverage of the story so far). The article is full of speculations about "Eastern mentality" and contains a number of factual errors. The saddest of them all is a fact that Dmitry is referred as a "hacker who raised from the rudimentary and relatively low-key "Here's a neat little cracking program I've posted" profile" to declaring "a alliance along with the West Coast technos against software tyranny". I have known Dmitry for about 10 years. Dmitry's an extremely talented researcher working at one the best Russian Universities (Bauman Moscow State Technical University) as well as a Senior Cryptoanalyst (his official position) for Elcomsoft. He has been known as a lawful citizen who is supporting his wife and two children. He has never had any connections with any hackers/crackers groups as nor he has ever participated in any illegal activities. As I believe, his appearance at this year's DefCon conference was based on his natural for any researcher desire to share his discoveries with the world. The controversy over the program developed and distributed by Elcomsoft which lead to Dmitry's arrest should not be used as a sufficient ground for a criminal prosecution of an individual. As far as I know there is no precedence of that nature, in fact, quite opposite: e.g. during the recent case related to copyright infringement involved Napster no Napster's employees were arrested as the case was settled between the companies not via imprisoning the employees. To sum up: -- Dmitry has not solely developed nor distributed or sold the controversial software his was arrested for, therefore the issue should be resolved between Adobe Inc and Elcomsoft(developer and distributor of the product) and not by imprisoning a security expert. -- Dmitry's research underlines certain weaknesses of one of the products of Adobe Inc. Arresting him for announcing the results of this work is equivalent of arresting tv reporters from a car reviewing program for discovering that an alarm/immobiliser does not work as promised by the manufacturer. I would appreciate it very much if you can help to draw public attention to the fact that Dmitry is NOT a HACKER/CRACKER (in common terms) but an exceptional SECURITY EXPERT and help him to return to his wife Oksana, son Egor (2.5 year)and daughter Polina (3 months). Thank you, Igor Drokov From kyhwana at world-net.co.nz Fri Jul 20 03:37:51 2001 From: kyhwana at world-net.co.nz (Daniel Richards) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Free Dmitri PDF. In-Reply-To: <166951.995594680@[10.0.1.220]> References: <200107200712.AAA20122@shell3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <3B58B2BF.3866.20B66EE@localhost> I spotted this on the adobe forums. http://quadium.net/random/free_dmitri.pdf Anyone else notice the irony? Daniel Richards - http://leopard.osoal.org.nz/~kyhwana/ PGP Pub key: http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/DanielRPubKey.asc Fingerprint: 416D 4027 D635 AF51 F2BF 60DF 4D94 F7A0 9893 2848 From soy at mediaone.net Fri Jul 20 04:37:23 2001 From: soy at mediaone.net (soy) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Los Angeles Protest - Any information? Message-ID: <001b01c11110$57b7d960$0200a8c0@soy> I live in west los angeles and am wondering if there is any way I could help protest this disgracefull action taken by Adobe. Please, if anything is being aranged or if anyone is interested. Give me an email! My address is: Soy@mediaone.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/22711b27/attachment.htm From ld at upt.org Fri Jul 20 04:38:19 2001 From: ld at upt.org (ld@upt.org) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Los Angeles Protest - Any information? In-Reply-To: <001b01c11110$57b7d960$0200a8c0@soy> Message-ID: I live in Phoenix, Arizona, and from what I've seen so far there isn't a protest going on here. But for what it's worth I've done my part so far by donating funds (by purchasing stuff from the boycottadobe store) and also, I finally became a member of the EFF. Aside from writing my congressmen I feel i've done my part :-) Oh, and I also wrote a nasty scathing letter to all the brass at Adobe. Like they are even gonna read it, but oh well. + --_____________________________________________________________________-- + | | Lane Davis No man is an island, but if you take a bunch | | | | of dead guys and tie them together, they make | | | | Phone: 602-722-1200 a pretty good raft. | | + --_____________________________________________________________________-- + From pschenk at chevalet.net Fri Jul 20 04:53:01 2001 From: pschenk at chevalet.net (Penelope Schenk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] silly slogan idea Message-ID: <049701c11112$9a4c9c00$6901a8c0@galoot> Adobe: Don't let people ROT-13 in jail! Penny Schenk Jamaica Plain, MA pschenk@chevalet.net www.chevalet.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/41cefde7/attachment.html From sween at modelm.org Fri Jul 20 05:10:03 2001 From: sween at modelm.org (sween) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] adjust dem der headers people Message-ID: Ok folks, this is a Nick Moffitt sponsored MTA, so adjust them X-Headers: X-message-flag: Boycott Adobe, Free Dmitry Skylarov! -- --- -sween | M | http://www.modelm.org --- "force feedback computing since 1984." From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Jul 20 05:13:35 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] 400 subscribers; demonstration publicity Message-ID: <20010720051335.R32403@zork.net> I'm pleased to announce that this mailing list has now reached 400 subscribers. I hope the high volume of list traffic is not too intimidating; I'm pretty confident that things will settle down a bit once Mr. Sklyarov is transferred and arraigned and once his legal counsel situation is clear. EFF has undertaken some heroic publicity efforts to let people know about the demonstration at Adobe on Monday, and the parallel events. Special thanks are due to Will Doherty, Stanton McCandlish, and the other EFF staff who got a very professional alert and media release out quickly. Alert (for prospective participants): http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html Media release (for journalists): http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010719_eff_sklyarov_pr.html The EFF has already submitted the release to its press list, so it is probably not necessary for you to send it to newspapers (or radio or TV stations). The EFF press list is, according to Will, extremely extensive. If you personally know newspaper reporters or other journalists who cover technology, politics, Bay Area events (or local events in the place where you are), please do let these reporters know about what's happening. (If you are a co-ordinator for an area, please do be honest and up front with reporters about how many people you expect; I'd hate to see a reporter expect 100 people at some Adobe branch office and then write about how only 8 people showed up.) If you are on mailing lists or if you read news web sites where this announcement is relevant and where it has not yet appeared, _please submit it_. Possible constituencies of interest could include electronic publishing and desktop publishing, legal, Linux and free software, programmers, civil liberties, computer security, and academic communities, and whatever angle drew you here in the first place. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From stefan at sels.com Fri Jul 20 05:34:30 2001 From: stefan at sels.com (Stefan Sels) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] german domains Message-ID: <48015.213.168.86.19.995632470.squirrel@www.sels.com> i gonna register some german domains, when i find the login page of my domain provider. does anybody know what the current status is ? -is he still in jail ? -does the EFF pay his lawyer (who?) -what do they sue him for ? How can we support him (or how should we treat adobe...) -- MfG / regards Stefan Sels --- Windows is the AOL of operating systems GPG/PGP key http://stefan.sels.com/pgp.asc From krburger at burger-family.org Fri Jul 20 04:46:26 2001 From: krburger at burger-family.org (Kenneth Burger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] logistical stuff. References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010719170524.00c624b0@mail.paultopia.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20010719233851.03909700@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <00bf01c11111$9b91e2b0$0800a8c0@balthazar> Well, I will be holding a planning meeting tonight at Denny's on 12 mile and Mound in Warren. The address is: 6004 E. 12 Mile Rd, Warren, MI 48092 The reason I chose this location is because this is where the Warren activist coalition meets as well so it seems rather fitting. I will also be handing out flyers and probably carrying a sign occassionally in front of the Federal Building tomorrow from probably 10-whenever, at 231 W. Laffayette Boulevard Detroit, MI (not sure what the ZIP code is) Please invite everyone to attend this planning meeting. It will start at 8:00PM which gives everyone time to get off work. If no one shows I will still be at the Federal Building tomorrow and I encourage everyone who can attend to come out and join me. FYI, my contact info is as follows: Kenneth R. Burger (810)977-1674 krburger@burger-family.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Doherty" To: "Kenneth Burger" Cc: "will Doherty" Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:40 AM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] logistical stuff. > Hey Kenneth, > > If we can list you as a contact person for a Detroit protest > on the EFF website, then you will likely hear from a number > of people who will help you make the protest happen.. > can you please let me know if you would like > to be listed right away and how to list you > (name, email, phone)? > > We are planning to send an alert out to 27,000 people > later this evening, so please get back to me right away > if you possibly can. > > Thanks, > > Will Doherty > Online Activist / Media Relations > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > Web http://www.eff.org > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > ------- > > At 10:21 PM 7/19/2001 -0400, Kenneth Burger wrote: > >I'd like to organize one in Detroit, but I don't even know if there's a > >federal building there anymore. Plus I have no experience with this sort of > >thing, but if anyone's interested in getting together to do some sort of > >protest in the Metro-Detroit area, please > >drop me a line. > > From karl.deabrew at binarything.com Fri Jul 20 05:47:38 2001 From: karl.deabrew at binarything.com (Karl De Abrew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] german domains Message-ID: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F621@mail.roundtable.com.au> > does anybody know what the current status is ? See Vladimir's report @ http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=179 -Karl From crism at maden.org Fri Jul 20 06:13:31 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's presentation in HTML Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720061220.00ab64e0@mail.maden.org> ... can be found at . Please don't link to it yet, though, as I've submitted it to Dave Touretzky's gallery () and would prefer to make that the canonical location. -crism -- "You will find that the State is the kind of organization which, though it does big things badly, does small things badly too." - J.K. Galbraith === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From goran at kirra.net Fri Jul 20 06:25:25 2001 From: goran at kirra.net (Goran Thyni) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda In-Reply-To: ; from free-sklyarov@happycool.com on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 04:59:26PM -0700 References: <87zoa0a4rk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010720152525.A508@kirra.net> But, outside USA the symbol for many people represent not stalinist Sovjet Union, but the struggle against oppression and feudalism. The "Hammer and Sickle" represent the struggle of workers and farmers. Since in this case we fight misconduct of big business the symbol creates confusion, especially since the victim is Russian. Many people support this cause, use of this symbol is hinting a wider polical agenda which will alienate supporters. best regards, -- G?ran Thyni Sweden On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 04:59:26PM -0700, Victor Piterbarg wrote: > I think the symbol is quite fitting. The way I interpret the symbol is that > Adobe is identified with the old Soviet Regime. The Soviet Regime is in turn > identified with opression. Therefore, Adobe + Hammer/Sickle = opressive > regime. > > -Victor > > -----Original Message----- > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Klepht > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 4:17 PM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda > > > >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt writes: > > >> Personally I think the T-Shirts are nice, the use of the > >> Russian symbology would turn many away. > > NM> Please, it is Soviet symbology, not Russian. > > ...unfortunately conflated in the mind of the American public. > > The fact that Sklyarov is Russian confuses the message of this symbol > somewhat. It might be useful (although no longer timely) to come up > with a symbol of oppression that is not so loaded with Cold War > symbolism. > > For example... uh... a boot? > > My guess is that the horse is out of the barn on this one, though. > > ~Klepht > > -- > klepht@eleutheria.org > http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From stefan at sels.com Fri Jul 20 06:25:42 2001 From: stefan at sels.com (Stefan Sels) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's presentation in HTML In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720061220.00ab64e0@mail.maden.org> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720061220.00ab64e0@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <48179.213.168.86.19.995635542.squirrel@www.sels.com> i made a copy in germany ! http://koeln.ccc.de/~stefan/dmitry/ds-defcon.html > ... can be found at . > > Please don't link to it yet, though, as I've submitted it to Dave > Touretzky's gallery ( >) and would prefer to make that the canonical location. > > -crism > -- > "You will find that the State is the kind of organization which, though > it does big things badly, does small things badly too." - J.K. > Galbraith === Freelance Text Nerd: === > PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- MfG / regards Stefan Sels --- Windows is the AOL of operating systems Adobe is not a nice company : http://www.boycottadobe.com/ GPG/PGP key http://stefan.sels.com/pgp.asc From market at giprogor.ru Fri Jul 20 06:30:27 2001 From: market at giprogor.ru (=?koi8-r?B?88XSx8XKICDgLiDpzNjJzg==?=) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov+SMI Message-ID: <004f01c11120$242ae0a0$0100a8c0@ilin> ???????! ????????? ???? ? ??????? ?????? ?????????? ?????? ???????? ???????????? ??????? ? ??????????? ???????? ???????. ?????? (?? ??????!) ????? , ??? ??????????, ? ????? ????? ????????? ???????? www.russ.ru, ?, ????????, ???????? ?? ????????????. ???? ?????? ("Adobe vs Elcomsoft: ??????????? ????" ) ??????????? ?? ?????? http://www.russ.ru/politics/west/20010720.html . ???? ????????? ????? ??????, ??? ????????? ???? ??????????, ?????? ? ????????????? ????? ????????????????. ? ?????????, ?????? ?. ?????, ?????????? ?? mailto:market@giprogor.ru ICQ#: 23262204 P.S.: ??????????? ??????????? ???????? ???????? ????? ????????? ?????????? ?????? ?????? ????????? ?? ?????? http://www.russ.ru/netcult/nasnet/20010719.html . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/0b3dfdd9/attachment.htm From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Fri Jul 20 06:44:53 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] demonstration in Moscow References: <20010720051335.R32403@zork.net> Message-ID: <020a01c11122$2b6368e0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, Seth David Schoen! > EFF has undertaken some heroic publicity efforts to let people know > about the demonstration at Adobe on Monday, and the parallel events. How can I distribute a word about press-conference in Moscow, that be in 24h in the most quick way? Who support EFF web site -- I think, this deserves to be under "Moscow" label. - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ == == Hi, All! As it was announced before, tommorrow, June, 20, at Saturday, 17:00 will be press-conference. The topic is arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov, Adove vs ElcomSoft case and comeing worldwide public protest actions, that will be at Monday. The place of press-conference was given by "Project OGI" company, thank you: Address: Moscow, Russia. Ul. Patnickaja 29/8 First floor, a hall near bookstore. The way: metro Novokuznetskaja or Tretjakovskaja On the courner of Patnickaja and Klementovskij pereulok you'll see Pizza Hat. In the same building, entrance from Klementovskij per., named caffe "Pirogi". References: 229-5489 Karina Kabanova (place) 162-4767 I.V. Vasilyev (press-conference) After press-conference, at 18:00 oranization metting of future action participants will be hold. - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From dep21 at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 20 06:48:24 2001 From: dep21 at yahoo.co.uk (d p) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] boycottadobe.co.uk registered! Message-ID: <20010720134824.13423.qmail@web4305.mail.yahoo.com> The domain: boycottadobe.co.uk has been registered! As soon as the name servers get sorted, I'll have it redirecting to boycottadobe.com - unless anyone out there in the UK wants to start getting some UK-related pages sorted out? I don't have time for that, but I'm willing to get the domain pointing wherever it needs to... dp. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Jul 20 06:53:07 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: demonstration in Moscow In-Reply-To: <020a01c11122$2b6368e0$0100a8c0@sharhan>; from ath@limm.mgimo.ru on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 05:44:53PM +0400 References: <20010720051335.R32403@zork.net> <020a01c11122$2b6368e0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: <20010720065307.D32403@zork.net> Ilya V. Vasilyev writes: > Hi, Seth David Schoen! > > > EFF has undertaken some heroic publicity efforts to let people know > > about the demonstration at Adobe on Monday, and the parallel events. > > How can I distribute a word about press-conference > in Moscow, that be in 24h in the most quick way? You should send the announcement to reporters in the area, preferably by FAX. If you don't have a press list, you can buy newspapers and magazines and see if they print a FAX number for the editors or reporters. Also, you can call radio stations and TV stations and ask for a FAX number for announcements. No doubt you should send them FAXes in Russian instead of in English. If other people on this list know media outlets in or around Moscow, please pass this information along to them. > Who support EFF web site -- I think, this deserves to be > under "Moscow" label. Write to Will Doherty ; he's on this list but there have been a lot of messages here recently. > == == > Hi, All! > > As it was announced before, tommorrow, June, 20, at Saturday, > 17:00 will be press-conference. The topic is arrest of > Dmitry Sklyarov, Adove vs ElcomSoft case and comeing > worldwide public protest actions, that will be at > Monday. > > The place of press-conference was given by "Project OGI" > company, thank you: > > Address: Moscow, Russia. Ul. Patnickaja 29/8 > First floor, a hall near bookstore. > > The way: metro Novokuznetskaja or Tretjakovskaja > On the courner of Patnickaja and > Klementovskij pereulok you'll see > Pizza Hat. In the same building, > entrance from Klementovskij per., > named caffe "Pirogi". > > References: 229-5489 Karina Kabanova (place) > 162-4767 I.V. Vasilyev (press-conference) > > After press-conference, at 18:00 oranization metting > of future action participants will be hold. Sounds good. I wish I could make it. :-) -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From danny at spesh.com Fri Jul 20 07:55:12 2001 From: danny at spesh.com (Danny O'Brien) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mueller and Ashcroft in Silicon Valley today In-Reply-To: <015501c1109b$3bfd0ee0$6501a8c0@rmsnew>; from rms@privacyfoundation.org on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 05:39:05PM -0400 References: <015501c1109b$3bfd0ee0$6501a8c0@rmsnew> Message-ID: <20010720075512.A3174@spesh.com> Hmm: On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 05:39:05PM -0400, Richard M. Smith wrote: > Hi, > > Looks like President Bush is going to have a political problem with the > Sklyarov affair. The case against Sklyarov is being spearheaded by the > US Attorney's Office of the Northern District of California. The > director of this office is Robert S. Mueller, President Bush's > nomination to the head up the FBI. Given the very questionable > circumstances of the Sklyarov case, it certainly doesn't reflect very > well on the US Attorney's Office and Mr. Mueller. > And: On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 12:34:36AM -0700, Christopher R. Maden wrote: > Did anyone else notice this on cryptome.org? > > > 19 July 2001: > The Department of Justice has sent out today an embargoed announcement of > US Attorney General John Ashcroft's appearance tomorrow in Mountain View, > CA, to speak on cybercrime: > > ----- > Department of Justice > For Planning Purposes Only - Not For Release AG > July 19, 2001 (202) 616-2777 > www.usdoj.gov TDD (202) 514-1888 > In CA: Lani Miller, (703) 395-4484 > > Washinton, DC -- Attorney General John Ashcroft will visit Northern > California tomorrow, Friday, July 20, to discuss cybercrime issues. > > When: 11:115AM (Pacific Time), Friday, July 20 > > What: Attorney General News Conference > Regarding Cybercrime > > Where: VeriSign Worldwide Headquarters > 487 East Middlefield Road > Mountain View, CA > > > Does anyone know if this will be open to the public? The CNN article at [1] implies that Robert S. Mueller will be joining Ashcroft at this news conference. His confirmation hearing is due on July 30. Journalists based in Silicon Valley might like to kill two birds with one stone, and quiz both of them on the Sklyarov case. d. [1] "Ashcroft said he would meet with Mueller on a trip Friday to San Francisco where Mueller is U.S. attorney for northern California." "Mueller is expected to join Ashcroft for a tour the same day of an unidentified Silicon Valley firm where the attorney general is scheduled to announce an electronic crime initiative." From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Jul 20 07:16:58 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Alan Cox resigns from conference committee, urges boycott Message-ID: <20010720071658.H32403@zork.net> ... for those who aren't Linux folks, Alan Cox is the second most prominent developer on the Linux kernel, after Linus Torvalds. He lives in the United Kingdom. http://lwn.net/daily/alan-quits-als.php3 -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From robertl1 at home.com Fri Jul 20 07:25:00 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] OSCON San Diego action Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720072119.03214e80@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> The Open Source Convention will be meeting in San Diego this next week JUly 23-27. Since this is perhaps the largest single gathering of Free/Open Source software people anywhere we should certainly plan some action in response to the Sklyarov Affair. Thoughts? Bob La Quey Free Dmitry http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From rms at privacyfoundation.org Fri Jul 20 07:22:46 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Can anyone meet Mueller and Ashcroft in Silicon Valley today? In-Reply-To: <20010720075512.A3174@spesh.com> Message-ID: <002201c11127$73347920$6501a8c0@tiac.net> It would be great if some folks could be at Verisign this morning when Ashcroft arrives. The right message to deliver "Mueller Free Sklyarov Now!". Another great sign for the occascion "Stop Adobe's Cybercrime!" ;-) Richard > Department of Justice > For Planning Purposes Only - Not For Release AG > July 19, 2001 (202) 616-2777 > www.usdoj.gov TDD (202) 514-1888 > In CA: Lani Miller, (703) 395-4484 > > Washinton, DC -- Attorney General John Ashcroft will visit Northern > California tomorrow, Friday, July 20, to discuss cybercrime issues. > > When: 11:115AM (Pacific Time), Friday, July 20 > > What: Attorney General News Conference > Regarding Cybercrime > > Where: VeriSign Worldwide Headquarters > 487 East Middlefield Road > Mountain View, CA > > > Does anyone know if this will be open to the public? The CNN article at [1] implies that Robert S. Mueller will be joining Ashcroft at this news conference. His confirmation hearing is due on July 30. Journalists based in Silicon Valley might like to kill two birds with one stone, and quiz both of them on the Sklyarov case. d. [1] "Ashcroft said he would meet with Mueller on a trip Friday to San Francisco where Mueller is U.S. attorney for northern California." "Mueller is expected to join Ashcroft for a tour the same day of an unidentified Silicon Valley firm where the attorney general is scheduled to announce an electronic crime initiative." _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 07:32:57 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Minneapolis/St. Paul In-Reply-To: <3B57E6AB.182132AD@qwest.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720072956.02d9e100@pop3.norton.antivirus> Hey Chris, If you are willing to act as a contact person for an MSP protest, that is the fastest way to get people organized to participate. We can publicize your info and people will contact you to organize and participate in the protest. If you want to act as a contact person, please let us know what name, email, and telephone number to use. We will assist later today with sample media releases, sample protest leaflets and signs, and sample slogans to chant at the protest. The next most important thing is to pick the date/time and location. An Adobe office or a federal building are preferable and this Monday, July 23, from 11am - 1pm would match up with the rest of the protests. Please let us know right away if you can be a contact person for the protest in your city. Free Dmitry, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 03:07 AM 7/20/2001 -0500, Chris Moseng wrote: >Just joining the list. Is anyone in the MSP area planning an event for >Monday? > >There is an Adobe building in Arden Hills (North of Roseville, West of >St. Paul, East of Minneapolis) ripe for protesting, though visiting >Adobe has a sense of futility about it since they can't very well undo >what they've done. A federal building in Minneapolis is an option, too. > >What's the scoop? > >-- >http://www.underwhelm.org >mosengc@qwest.net > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 07:35:22 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] OSCON San Diego action In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720072119.03214e80@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720073409.02bc2cc8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Hey Bob, I have cc'ed the two EFF people I know of who are attending OSC... if you all can have a strategy session on this idea, EFF is interested in participating. Free Dmitry, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 07:25 AM 7/20/2001 -0700, Bob La Quey wrote: >The Open Source Convention will be meeting in San Diego >this next week JUly 23-27. Since this is perhaps the largest >single gathering of Free/Open Source software people anywhere >we should certainly plan some action in response to the >Sklyarov Affair. > >Thoughts? > > >Bob La Quey Free Dmitry http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From noring at olagrande.net Fri Jul 20 07:36:55 2001 From: noring at olagrande.net (noring@olagrande.net) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Proposal -- Start an Online Petition Drive Regarding Sklyarov Arrest Message-ID: <200107201436.JAA13553@og1.olagrande.net> [Repost to free-sklyarov for one last time...if no groundswell of interest I will withdraw my proposal.] Hello, As one who helped with the anti-CDA petition drive a few years ago which got about 130,000 signatures, I propose that we start an online petition drive concerning Sklyarov, Adobe and/or the DMCA. (I recall there being at least one web site for the purpose of running online petitions so we could use such a service or simply put a web form up somewhere -- I prefer the former.) Of course, we need to decide upon: 1) Does it make any sense to devote energy to it? 2) If so, what should be the wording of the petition statement? Who and what should it be focused towards? 3) How do we promote the petition to get the general net community interested in it and to e-sign it? Regarding 1), of course I believe it will be useful. It serves three important functions: a) It promotes awareness of the situation and the Big Picture behind it to the general net community (one result is to bring new activists into the battle, as well as the petition alone brings more news media coverage -- this happened with the anti-CDA petition), b) It provides a way for concerned citizens to do *something* (it is easy to sign a petition while for most doing anything more is difficult for whatever reason such as lack of time), and it is well-known that once a person does something, they have psychologically committed themselves to the cause, and will become more aware of this and similar civil liberties issues. c) It is a morale booster (provided the number of signatures is adequate) to those in the trenches fighting the DMCA and the prosecution of Dmitry. Of course, Dmitry himself will be very appreciative since he needs to really know a lot of people out there are on his side. Let me make it clear that the petition is not likely to change the minds of the Feds where they will decide not to prosecute Dmitry (but it will make them aware that many eyes are looking at everything they are doing -- the psychological impact on the DoJ cannot be understated), nor will it sway the courts in their future deliberations regarding Dmitry and DMCA in general (it might sway Adobe's position, though, and might even convince a few Congresspersons to take action to try to defang DMCA through legislation.) However, the benefits of a) to c) above are adequate to justify the effort, in my opinion. Regarding 2), the petition statement wording must be very carefully worded -- concise, non-conspiratorial/non-libelous and moderate in tone, must focus on the important issues, and of course to state something we "all" can agree upon, rather than trying to be too extreme. It must also convey reference sources for the interested person to look up and study the issues surrounding the DMCA before deciding to e-sign the petition. Regarding 3), we certainly need an aggressive campaign to "get out the vote". We will need a couple dozen or more core people to circulate the petition to relevant online forums/ lists/boards/newsgroups etc., and to solicit others to pass it on to their friends and so on. There are probably other ways to promote it as well (geez, if we can get Matt Drudge to report on this petition, we'd get several hundred thousand signatures from that alone!) We also need to decide what we do with all these signatures (of course, we have to ensure email address privacy in some way) once we collect them, and how to maximize the impact of what we did collect. Finally, we need to act and get this out within hours, not days, since we have momentum at the moment, and much interest, but this is fleeting, and we must strike while the iron is hot -- if anything, the petition will keep the momentum going as I observed with the CDA. Since Shari Steele at EFF is a subscriber to this list, hopefully she will weigh in with her thoughts on the pros and cons of this proposed petition drive. If EFF feels it is not a good idea, then I will go along with their view and withdraw my proposal. Jon Noring From simon.kagedal at csce.se Fri Jul 20 07:38:53 2001 From: simon.kagedal at csce.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?K=E5gedal_Simon?=) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda Message-ID: <01F1D2EE3A0BD211966508000996199D409C2F@utecmail.utec.se> Hi, Nice to see other Swedes on the list. (I was actually myself going to write a similar message, I think the use of the "hammer and sickle" is quite distasteful for many reasons. Except for the ones you mention, I would like to point out that if the idea is to associate to the Stalin regime, remember that Stalin killed millions of people. This is clearly out of proportion with what Adobe has done. Similar argument as the one RMS makes about the word "piracy": http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html ) But back to the case. What do you think could be done for Sklyarov from a Swedish point of view? (or what do people outside US do in general?) I was going to write Adobe's Swedish office and ask them to ask their bosses to drop the charges. I couldn't find an appropriate address to write to on the www.adobe.se pages though, only some PR guy, maybe that will do? I did notify the Swedish section of Amnesty International on their web page. I wish everybody the best of luck in protests and I really hope Dmitry Sklyarov is set free really soon. This is horrible. Simon. -----Original message----- Fr?n: Goran Thyni [mailto:goran@kirra.net] Skickat: den 20 juli 2001 15:25 Till: free-sklyarov@zork.net Kopia: Victor Piterbarg ?mne: Re: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda But, outside USA the symbol for many people represent not stalinist Sovjet Union, but the struggle against oppression and feudalism. The "Hammer and Sickle" represent the struggle of workers and farmers. Since in this case we fight misconduct of big business the symbol creates confusion, especially since the victim is Russian. Many people support this cause, use of this symbol is hinting a wider polical agenda which will alienate supporters. best regards, -- G?ran Thyni Sweden From seth.johnson at realmeasures.dyndns.org Fri Jul 20 07:33:36 2001 From: seth.johnson at realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda Message-ID: Goran's right. The symbol resonates a certain way in the post-Reagan (and -Thatcher) "West." But it's important to remember that we're on a global stage. And Sklyarov's Russian. If it's "merely" a symbol, then at least groups working together on this should present other logos and let the use of this logo per se be just one of a number of logos different people are using. Seth Johnson -----Original Message----- From: Goran Thyni Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:25:25 +0200 > But, > > outside USA the symbol for many people represent not stalinist Sovjet > Union, > but the struggle against oppression and feudalism. > The "Hammer and Sickle" represent the struggle of workers and > farmers. > > Since in this case we fight misconduct of big business the symbol > creates confusion, especially since the victim is Russian. > > Many people support this cause, use of this symbol is hinting a > wider polical agenda which will alienate supporters. > > best regards, > -- > Göran Thyni > Sweden From goran at kirra.net Fri Jul 20 07:49:04 2001 From: goran at kirra.net (Goran Thyni) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda In-Reply-To: <01F1D2EE3A0BD211966508000996199D409C2F@utecmail.utec.se>; from simon.kagedal@csce.se on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 04:38:53PM +0200 References: <01F1D2EE3A0BD211966508000996199D409C2F@utecmail.utec.se> Message-ID: <20010720164904.A691@kirra.net> I wrote a messsage in this web form: http://www.adobe.se/misc/annat.html No answer yet (2 days). I think people especially Adobe customers should put pressure on the local Adobe offices. Search for contacts adresses/form on your local site: http://www.adobe./ regards, -- G?ran Thyni Kiruna, Sweden On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 04:38:53PM +0200, K?gedal Simon wrote: > Hi, > > Nice to see other Swedes on the list. > > (I was actually myself going to write a similar message, I think > the use of the "hammer and sickle" is quite distasteful for many > reasons. Except for the ones you mention, I would like to point > out that if the idea is to associate to the Stalin regime, > remember that Stalin killed millions of people. This is clearly > out of proportion with what Adobe has done. Similar argument as > the one RMS makes about the word "piracy": > > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html ) > > But back to the case. > > What do you think could be done for Sklyarov from a Swedish point > of view? (or what do people outside US do in general?) > > I was going to write Adobe's Swedish office and ask them to ask > their bosses to drop the charges. I couldn't find an appropriate > address to write to on the www.adobe.se pages though, only some PR > guy, maybe that will do? > > I did notify the Swedish section of Amnesty International on their > web page. > > I wish everybody the best of luck in protests and I really hope > Dmitry Sklyarov is set free really soon. This is horrible. > > Simon. > > -----Original message----- > Fr?n: Goran Thyni [mailto:goran@kirra.net] > Skickat: den 20 juli 2001 15:25 > Till: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Kopia: Victor Piterbarg > ?mne: Re: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda > > > But, > > outside USA the symbol for many people represent not stalinist Sovjet Union, > but the struggle against oppression and feudalism. > The "Hammer and Sickle" represent the struggle of workers and farmers. > > Since in this case we fight misconduct of big business the symbol > creates confusion, especially since the victim is Russian. > > Many people support this cause, use of this symbol is hinting a > wider polical agenda which will alienate supporters. > > best regards, > -- > G?ran Thyni > Sweden > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From robertl1 at home.com Fri Jul 20 07:56:52 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] OSCON San Diego action In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720073409.02bc2cc8@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720072119.03214e80@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720074757.0320b7a0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> This cannot be allowed to stand. We definitely want to put together an action. The only question in my mind is what/when, etc. I suggest that OSCON should throw together an immediate ad hoc panel on this issue. We will probably also want to organize efforts separately from the OSCON, which after all has an agenda of its own. As a minimum we want to find an effective way to leverage this large gathering of programmers and to help Dmitry and blast the DMCA. Just think what the American public would be saying if this was a young American programmer with a wife and two children being held by the KGB in Moscow. Shame on the USA. Shame on Adobe. At 07:35 AM 7/20/01 -0700, Will Doherty wrote: >Hey Bob, > >I have cc'ed the two EFF people I know of who are attending >OSC... if you all can have a strategy session on this idea, >EFF is interested in participating. > >Free Dmitry, > >Will Doherty >Online Activist / Media Relations >Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) >Web http://www.eff.org > >Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age >------- > >At 07:25 AM 7/20/2001 -0700, Bob La Quey wrote: >>The Open Source Convention will be meeting in San Diego >>this next week JUly 23-27. Since this is perhaps the largest >>single gathering of Free/Open Source software people anywhere >>we should certainly plan some action in response to the >>Sklyarov Affair. >> >>Thoughts? >> >> >>Bob La Quey Free Dmitry http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>free-sklyarov mailing list >>free-sklyarov@zork.net >>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov Bob La Quey From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 07:59:05 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Proposal -- Start an Online Petition Drive Regarding Sklyarov Arrest In-Reply-To: <200107201436.JAA13553@og1.olagrande.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720075644.02ce45b8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Worded as you have it below, the online petition idea is great and EFF will definitely support it and publicize it once we get petition text that works for us and the community of activists here and elsewhere (which should not be difficult!). Anyone have the cycles to draft something? Feel free to crib from the materials already on the EFF website. Keep up the amazing work! Free Dmitry, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 09:36 AM 7/20/2001 -0500, noring@olagrande.net wrote: >[Repost to free-sklyarov for one last time...if no >groundswell of interest I will withdraw my proposal.] > >Hello, > >As one who helped with the anti-CDA petition drive a few >years ago which got about 130,000 signatures, I propose >that we start an online petition drive concerning Sklyarov, >Adobe and/or the DMCA. (I recall there being at least one >web site for the purpose of running online petitions so >we could use such a service or simply put a web form up >somewhere -- I prefer the former.) > >Of course, we need to decide upon: > >1) Does it make any sense to devote energy to it? > >2) If so, what should be the wording of the petition > statement? Who and what should it be focused > towards? > >3) How do we promote the petition to get the > general net community interested in it and to > e-sign it? > > >Regarding 1), of course I believe it will be useful. It >serves three important functions: > >a) It promotes awareness of the situation and the Big > Picture behind it to the general net community (one > result is to bring new activists into the battle, as > well as the petition alone brings more news media > coverage -- this happened with the anti-CDA petition), > >b) It provides a way for concerned citizens to do > *something* (it is easy to sign a petition while > for most doing anything more is difficult for > whatever reason such as lack of time), and it is > well-known that once a person does something, > they have psychologically committed themselves > to the cause, and will become more aware of > this and similar civil liberties issues. > >c) It is a morale booster (provided the number of > signatures is adequate) to those in the trenches > fighting the DMCA and the prosecution of Dmitry. > Of course, Dmitry himself will be very appreciative > since he needs to really know a lot of people out > there are on his side. > >Let me make it clear that the petition is not likely to >change the minds of the Feds where they will decide not to >prosecute Dmitry (but it will make them aware that many eyes >are looking at everything they are doing -- the psychological >impact on the DoJ cannot be understated), nor will it sway >the courts in their future deliberations regarding Dmitry >and DMCA in general (it might sway Adobe's position, though, >and might even convince a few Congresspersons to take action >to try to defang DMCA through legislation.) However, the >benefits of a) to c) above are adequate to justify the >effort, in my opinion. > >Regarding 2), the petition statement wording must be very >carefully worded -- concise, non-conspiratorial/non-libelous >and moderate in tone, must focus on the important issues, and >of course to state something we "all" can agree upon, rather >than trying to be too extreme. It must also convey reference >sources for the interested person to look up and study the >issues surrounding the DMCA before deciding to e-sign the >petition. > >Regarding 3), we certainly need an aggressive campaign to "get >out the vote". We will need a couple dozen or more core >people to circulate the petition to relevant online forums/ >lists/boards/newsgroups etc., and to solicit others to pass >it on to their friends and so on. There are probably other >ways to promote it as well (geez, if we can get Matt Drudge >to report on this petition, we'd get several hundred thousand >signatures from that alone!) > >We also need to decide what we do with all these signatures >(of course, we have to ensure email address privacy in some >way) once we collect them, and how to maximize the impact of >what we did collect. > >Finally, we need to act and get this out within hours, not >days, since we have momentum at the moment, and much interest, >but this is fleeting, and we must strike while the iron is >hot -- if anything, the petition will keep the momentum going >as I observed with the CDA. > > >Since Shari Steele at EFF is a subscriber to this list, >hopefully she will weigh in with her thoughts on the pros >and cons of this proposed petition drive. If EFF feels >it is not a good idea, then I will go along with their >view and withdraw my proposal. > >Jon Noring From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 08:00:40 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda In-Reply-To: <01F1D2EE3A0BD211966508000996199D409C2F@utecmail.utec.se> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720075948.02b27d18@pop3.norton.antivirus> Hey, how about a protest at a location in Sweden, the US consulate or embassy perhaps? If you can act as a contact person, please let us know right away! Will Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 04:38 PM 7/20/2001 +0200, K?gedal Simon wrote: >Hi, > >Nice to see other Swedes on the list. > >(I was actually myself going to write a similar message, I think >the use of the "hammer and sickle" is quite distasteful for many >reasons. Except for the ones you mention, I would like to point >out that if the idea is to associate to the Stalin regime, >remember that Stalin killed millions of people. This is clearly >out of proportion with what Adobe has done. Similar argument as >the one RMS makes about the word "piracy": > >http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html ) > >But back to the case. > >What do you think could be done for Sklyarov from a Swedish point >of view? (or what do people outside US do in general?) > >I was going to write Adobe's Swedish office and ask them to ask >their bosses to drop the charges. I couldn't find an appropriate >address to write to on the www.adobe.se pages though, only some PR >guy, maybe that will do? > >I did notify the Swedish section of Amnesty International on their >web page. > >I wish everybody the best of luck in protests and I really hope >Dmitry Sklyarov is set free really soon. This is horrible. > >Simon. > >-----Original message----- >Fr?n: Goran Thyni [mailto:goran@kirra.net] >Skickat: den 20 juli 2001 15:25 >Till: free-sklyarov@zork.net >Kopia: Victor Piterbarg >?mne: Re: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda > > >But, > >outside USA the symbol for many people represent not stalinist Sovjet Union, >but the struggle against oppression and feudalism. >The "Hammer and Sickle" represent the struggle of workers and farmers. > >Since in this case we fight misconduct of big business the symbol >creates confusion, especially since the victim is Russian. > >Many people support this cause, use of this symbol is hinting a >wider polical agenda which will alienate supporters. > >best regards, >-- >G?ran Thyni >Sweden > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 08:06:04 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720080516.02d562c8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Agreed... after an initial guffaw, it was my reaction to the symbol as well. Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 10:33 AM 7/20/2001 -0400, Seth Johnson wrote: >Goran's right. > >The symbol resonates a certain way in the post-Reagan (and -Thatcher) >"West." But it's important to remember that we're on a global stage. >And Sklyarov's Russian. > >If it's "merely" a symbol, then at least groups working together on this >should present other logos and let the use of this logo per se be just >one of a number of logos different people are using. > >Seth Johnson > >-----Original Message----- >From: Goran Thyni >Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:25:25 +0200 > > > But, > > > > outside USA the symbol for many people represent not stalinist Sovjet > > Union, > > but the struggle against oppression and feudalism. > > The "Hammer and Sickle" represent the struggle of workers and > > farmers. > > > > Since in this case we fight misconduct of big business the symbol > > creates confusion, especially since the victim is Russian. > > > > Many people support this cause, use of this symbol is hinting a > > wider polical agenda which will alienate supporters. > > > > best regards, > > -- > > G?ran Thyni > > Sweden > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From saint_sam at yahoo.com Fri Jul 20 08:21:13 2001 From: saint_sam at yahoo.com (Sam Gray) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Librarians as allies Message-ID: <20010720152113.95614.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> I realize this is tangential to the immediate purpose of the list, which is to get Dmitry out of jail, but in the larger scheme of things, there's another large group of people who are just as mad about the DMCA, if not more so, as the geeks: librarians. (Spider Robinson said of librarians: "They're the Secret Masters of the Universe. Don't ever piss one off.") Librarians are our natural allies on this issue, and it's not too late to recruit them for picket lines. Just a little something to keep in mind. ===== "They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's some kind of federal program." - George W. Bush, St. Charles, Mo., Nov. 2, 2000 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 08:22:27 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:18 2005 Subject: (Resend) Re: [free-sklyarov] OSCON San Diego action Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720082124.02b7d4e8@pop3.norton.antivirus> I am resending because I cc'ed this to the WRONG KEVIN... the correct email for Kevin at EFF is now cc'ed on this email. Will ------- Hey Bob, I have cc'ed the two EFF people I know of who are attending OSC... if you all can have a strategy session on this idea, EFF is interested in participating. Free Dmitry, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 07:25 AM 7/20/2001 -0700, Bob La Quey wrote: >The Open Source Convention will be meeting in San Diego >this next week JUly 23-27. Since this is perhaps the largest >single gathering of Free/Open Source software people anywhere >we should certainly plan some action in response to the >Sklyarov Affair. > >Thoughts? > > >Bob La Quey Free Dmitry http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From joe at artlung.com Fri Jul 20 08:34:26 2001 From: joe at artlung.com (Joe Crawford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] About San Diego Action. Message-ID: <3B584F4D.C865C7@artlung.com> I'm not going to the Open Source Convention - but I'd be interested to know if anything is happening in San Diego. Question though - was Dmitry's work open source? - Joe / on digest / (yes, in San Diego) -- ........... Joe Crawford : thinking and design about the web .... enigmatic narcissism and miscellany : http://artlung.com .... community instigator : http://WebSanDiego.org .... San Diego, California, USA .....................AAAFNRAA From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 08:41:24 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] logistical stuff. In-Reply-To: <00bf01c11111$9b91e2b0$0800a8c0@balthazar> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010719170524.00c624b0@mail.paultopia.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20010719233851.03909700@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720084028.02d43df8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Excellent! If you have flyer text or signs you can share, please email them to me so we can make them available to the other protests. Also, are you planning to do something on Monday, July 23, from 11am - 1pm? Will At 07:46 AM 7/20/2001 -0400, Kenneth Burger wrote: >Well, I will be holding a planning meeting tonight at Denny's on 12 mile and >Mound in Warren. The address is: >6004 E. 12 Mile Rd, >Warren, MI 48092 > >The reason I chose this location is because this is where the Warren >activist coalition meets as well so it seems rather fitting. I will also be >handing out flyers and probably carrying a sign occassionally in front of >the Federal Building tomorrow from probably 10-whenever, at >231 W. Laffayette Boulevard >Detroit, MI (not sure what the ZIP code is) > >Please invite everyone to attend this planning meeting. It will start at >8:00PM which gives everyone time to get off work. If no one shows I will >still be at the Federal Building tomorrow and I encourage everyone who can >attend to come out and join me. FYI, my contact info is as follows: > >Kenneth R. Burger >(810)977-1674 >krburger@burger-family.org > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Will Doherty" >To: "Kenneth Burger" >Cc: "will Doherty" >Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:40 AM >Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] logistical stuff. > > > > Hey Kenneth, > > > > If we can list you as a contact person for a Detroit protest > > on the EFF website, then you will likely hear from a number > > of people who will help you make the protest happen.. > > can you please let me know if you would like > > to be listed right away and how to list you > > (name, email, phone)? > > > > We are planning to send an alert out to 27,000 people > > later this evening, so please get back to me right away > > if you possibly can. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Will Doherty > > Online Activist / Media Relations > > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > > Web http://www.eff.org > > > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > > ------- > > > > At 10:21 PM 7/19/2001 -0400, Kenneth Burger wrote: > > >I'd like to organize one in Detroit, but I don't even know if there's a > > >federal building there anymore. Plus I have no experience with this sort >of > > >thing, but if anyone's interested in getting together to do some sort of > > >protest in the Metro-Detroit area, please > > >drop me a line. > > > > From webmaster at hmonline.com Fri Jul 20 08:42:00 2001 From: webmaster at hmonline.com (Robin Sale) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slashdot FINALLY published us Message-ID: Well, It took long enough (I know that my own story submission on the protests was rejected) but the story has made www.slashdot.org http://slashdot.org/yro/01/07/20/1332227.shtml DS ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The Digital Sorceress - We Work Magic with Technology www.digitalsorceress.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From esper at sherohman.org Fri Jul 20 08:42:32 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picketting Adobe? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010719194937.0323ea30@casbah.it.northwestern.edu>; from ldavids@northwestern.edu on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 07:59:30PM -0500 References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010719194937.0323ea30@casbah.it.northwestern.edu> Message-ID: <20010720104232.C27798@sherohman.org> On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 07:59:30PM -0500, Lloyd Davidson wrote: > What about locking a book inside of a small safe instead of burning > it? Burying it might be another apt metaphor. Both of these are more > closely equivalent to the encryption of text that keeps its content hidden > away then burning. Put an open book inside a glass box with a simple manual latch - something that can be opened without requiring a key or a combination - holding the lid shut. Explain to people that they're free to read the book, but working the latch is a felony. (We can't let you open the latch to turn the page because then you might steal the book...) -- It's as if we outlawed cars on the principle that they could be used to help crooks escape from bank robberies. - Dan Gillmore on the DMCA From proclus at iname.com Fri Jul 20 08:48:25 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus realm) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] nice story! Message-ID: <3B5852C8.E112B06A@iname.com> http://sf.indymedia.org/display.php?id=101903 This is the best story about our movement that I have read so far, and I will forward a link to anyone who writes me about it. Thanks so much. Here is a link to our coverage, if you haven't seen it yet. Probably nothing new for you there. http://gnu-darwin.sourceforge.net/news.html Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From LGORKIN at mobius.com Fri Jul 20 08:45:43 2001 From: LGORKIN at mobius.com (Leonid Gorkin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? Message-ID: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F79@ryentes1.mobius.com> Hi everybody, I've just joined this mailing list. It's not like I often participate in protest action, but it this case I think I would. Is any protest action planned in New York City? I think there is a group of people who organized protests during 2600 trial, is anything going on now? Regards, Leonid From me at ryanmarsh.com Fri Jul 20 06:46:25 2001 From: me at ryanmarsh.com (Ryan Marsh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] unified message Message-ID: <995636785.28234.6.camel@cocoon.butterflysoft.org> Has the EFF distributed prepared statements, guidelines, suggestions and such for us to use when speaking with the media, passerby, or employees of Adobe? If not, can their lawyers/PR come up with something? I feel it is very important for us to have a unified and coherent message. On another note, I'll be driving down from Daly City/SF, if anyone needs a ride lemme know. -- Regards, -ryan The three great virtues of programming are laziness, impatience, and hubris, but bigotry makes the open-source world go round. From maxomai at aracnet.com Fri Jul 20 08:50:38 2001 From: maxomai at aracnet.com (Michael C. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: ; from jeme@brelin.net on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 10:05:15PM -0700 References: <8766co5s44.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010720085038.A27572@aracnet.com> On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 10:05:15PM -0700, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > The DMCA must be challenged in a court of law. That's how our system > works. If Dmitry is immediately freed, we lose the opportunity for the > challenge of the criminal portions of that law. > > Maybe you're just trusting Felten v. RIAA. We also have an opportunity here to pressure Congress to change the law. The key is to raise a big stink in the traditional media and to send lots and lots of letters to our legislators. This issue doesn't even touch the periphery of their conciousness. Legislators are some of the LEAST wired people on the planet and they need to be made aware by our screaming really loudly. Mike Smith From noring at olagrande.net Fri Jul 20 08:52:30 2001 From: noring at olagrande.net (noring@olagrande.net) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The "Petition" -- first specific thoughts on the focus... Message-ID: <200107201552.KAA16681@og1.olagrande.net> Will replied: >Worded as you have it below, >the online petition idea is great >and EFF will definitely support it and >publicize it once we get >petition text that works for us >and the community of activists here >and elsewhere (which should not be difficult!). > >Anyone have the cycles to draft >something? Feel free to crib from >the materials already on the EFF >website. The critical decision to make is the focus of this petition (if that's what we want to call it -- it may be a "position statement", or some such thing), and who, if any, it is directed to (we may decide not to focus it on any one organization or group -- thus for this it would not be a petition per se but something a little different.) I advise against focusing the statement against Adobe, nor to focus it solely on the Sklyarov matter, since the real underlying issue is the DMCA itself -- it should be an anti-DMCA statement. Obviously some wording can be included showing the undersigned are aghast by Adobe's and the Fed's actions, so it need not be blind to current events. (It is the current events that provides the eye-opening reasons why the DMCA is evil -- before Sklyarov it was mostly academic in most people's eyes -- now we have something real and human -- something people can relate to.) The reason for this is based on actual experience. Should the petition be directed at Adobe, and Adobe happens to have a change of heart, then the petition drive will immediately wither, and the real culprit, the DMCA, will remain. Likewise for Sklyarov -- if the charges are dropped and he is sent back to Russia, a petition focused solely on freeing Sklyarov will also falter, and the real culprit, the DMCA, will escape. The real goal is overturning the DMCA (and the EU equivalent which will take effect in a year or two), and if the DMCA is overturned (which will take time, well beyond the life of the anti-DMCA petition) then that is the real solution, the end goal -- we simply use the Sklyarov matter as the real world example to get people to sit up and listen. Now, if we are to focus it on any particular matter, I would focus it on Freeing Sklyarov. But without the focus truly being on the evils of the DMCA, it will be a feel good thing, but won't be worth the effort to execute -- it's then better to focus our efforts in other directions. We want the DMCA to be put on trial, not Sklyarov. Jon Noring From maxomai at aracnet.com Fri Jul 20 08:54:10 2001 From: maxomai at aracnet.com (Michael C. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] 20 July 2001, The Boston Globe, Page 1: Hacker's arrest decried In-Reply-To: ; from bill@scannell.org on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 12:07:21AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010720085410.B27572@aracnet.com> Something I found particularly interesting about this article: "But at least one member of Congress doesn't think Sklyarov's actions should be illegal. ''I think there's a growing sense that the legislation is overly broad,'' said Representative Rick Boucher, a Virginia Democrat. He says there are legitimate reasons why an electronic book owner might wish to copy all or part of the text - to make a backup copy, or to include an excerpt in some other document. This concept, called ''fair use,'' is well established in copyright law. "Boucher fears the DMCA essentially eliminates fair use, by enabling publishers to lock up their materials so completely that consumers won't be able to make legitimate copies." We *can* change the minds of people in Congress. We just have to keep screaming. > http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/201/business/Hacker_s_arrest_decried+.shtml Mike Smith From gomes at navigo.com Fri Jul 20 08:56:05 2001 From: gomes at navigo.com (Carlos Macedo Gomes) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? References: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F79@ryentes1.mobius.com> Message-ID: <001c01c11134$8ebbd2d0$9d01000a@cgomesw2k> Some folks from lxny.org showed up to show support. I missed this past Wednesdays meeting but I'll zap Jay an email to see if they discussed and will advise of interest levels. waves, C.G. -- gomes@navigo.com Carlos Macedo Gomes _sic itur ad astra_ 1/1; ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leonid Gorkin" To: Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 11:45 AM Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? > Hi everybody, > I've just joined this mailing list. It's not like I often participate in > protest action, but it this case I think I would. Is any protest action > planned in New York City? I think there is a group of people who organized > protests during 2600 trial, is anything going on now? > Regards, > Leonid > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From noring at olagrande.net Fri Jul 20 08:55:37 2001 From: noring at olagrande.net (noring@olagrande.net) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] How about getting the American Library Association (ALA) to make a statement of support for Sklyarov and against the DMCA? Message-ID: <200107201555.KAA16779@og1.olagrande.net> Sam Gray wrote: >I realize this is tangential to the immediate purpose of the list, which is >to get Dmitry out of jail, but in the larger scheme of things, there's >another large group of people who are just as mad about the DMCA, if not >more so, as the geeks: librarians. (Spider Robinson said of librarians: >"They're the Secret Masters of the Universe. Don't ever piss one off.") > >Librarians are our natural allies on this issue, and it's not too late to >recruit them for picket lines. Yes, good point. I suggest EFF approach ALA and ask them to at least issue a position paper on this affair, and hope they will become more active than that. Jon Noring From robertl1 at home.com Fri Jul 20 08:57:49 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] OSCON San Diego action In-Reply-To: <3B584CB1.329CA626@perkel.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720072119.03214e80@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720074757.0320b7a0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720084732.032fa0e0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> At 08:22 AM 7/20/01 -0700, you wrote: >Well --- I'm ranting now. --- My point --- I support action at OSCON - I will >be there - how can I be of service? We need a strategy and goals both immediate and long term. I suggest our goal is to get this DMCA rewritten, overturned, judged unconstituional, burnt at the stake, or whatever legal language is appropriate, IANAL. One strategy is to make the law ineffective by making its use a massive PR failure for the companies, like Adobe, who try to use the DMCA in draconian fashion. So I would suggest that we have two immediate complementary goals: 1) Do everything we can to help Dmitry. 2) Do everything we can to make this a PR disaster for Adobe. So what is the best way to make Adobe look like the criminals they are? Or should we simply position them as heavy handed fools .. or both. A question, should we have a separate mailing list to organize for the OSCON or are we better sticking to the main free-sklyarov list? and CCing extensively? Bob La Quey From rabbi at quickie.net Fri Jul 20 08:57:00 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Can anyone meet Mueller and Ashcroft in Silicon Valley today? In-Reply-To: <002201c11127$73347920$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Message-ID: Please, no signs at Verisign today. We've got this covered. On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Richard M. Smith wrote: > It would be great if some folks could be at Verisign this morning when > Ashcroft > arrives. The right message to deliver "Mueller Free Sklyarov Now!". > Another > great sign for the occascion "Stop Adobe's Cybercrime!" ;-) > > Richard > > > Department of Justice > > For Planning Purposes Only - Not For Release AG > > July 19, 2001 (202) 616-2777 > > www.usdoj.gov TDD (202) 514-1888 > > In CA: Lani Miller, (703) 395-4484 > > > > Washinton, DC -- Attorney General John Ashcroft will visit Northern > > California tomorrow, Friday, July 20, to discuss cybercrime issues. > > > > When: 11:115AM (Pacific Time), Friday, July 20 > > > > What: Attorney General News Conference > > Regarding Cybercrime > > > > Where: VeriSign Worldwide Headquarters > > 487 East Middlefield Road > > Mountain View, CA > > > > > > Does anyone know if this will be open to the public? > > The CNN article at > > [1] implies that Robert S. Mueller will be joining Ashcroft at this news > conference. His confirmation hearing is due on July 30. > > Journalists based in Silicon Valley might like to kill two birds with > one stone, and quiz both of them on the Sklyarov case. > > d. > [1] > "Ashcroft said he would meet with Mueller on a trip Friday to > San > Francisco where Mueller is U.S. attorney for northern > California." > > "Mueller is expected to join Ashcroft for a tour the same day of > an > unidentified Silicon Valley firm where the attorney general is > scheduled to announce an electronic crime initiative." > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From rabbi at quickie.net Fri Jul 20 08:57:41 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Give us another logo. SO far it's the only one we have to use. On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Seth Johnson wrote: > > Goran's right. > > The symbol resonates a certain way in the post-Reagan (and -Thatcher) > "West." But it's important to remember that we're on a global stage. > And Sklyarov's Russian. > > If it's "merely" a symbol, then at least groups working together on this > should present other logos and let the use of this logo per se be just > one of a number of logos different people are using. > > Seth Johnson > > -----Original Message----- > From: Goran Thyni > Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:25:25 +0200 > > > But, > > > > outside USA the symbol for many people represent not stalinist Sovjet > > Union, > > but the struggle against oppression and feudalism. > > The "Hammer and Sickle" represent the struggle of workers and > > farmers. > > > > Since in this case we fight misconduct of big business the symbol > > creates confusion, especially since the victim is Russian. > > > > Many people support this cause, use of this symbol is hinting a > > wider polical agenda which will alienate supporters. > > > > best regards, > > -- > > G=F6ran Thyni > > Sweden > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From ash at toocan.com Fri Jul 20 08:59:17 2001 From: ash at toocan.com (ash@toocan.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Address Message-ID: <200107201559.f6KFxC416239@toocan.com> those seeking an address for adobe may want to use Colleen M. Pouliot Adobe Systems / Legal Dept 345 Park Ave M/S WT16 San Jose, CA 95110 Ms. Pouliot is Adobe's general counsel and meets frequently with decision makers for adobe. she and those decision makers may appreciate your well expressed concerns? pouliot@adobe.com ash --------------------------------------------- This message was sent from the domain toocan.com. Have a great day. From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 09:04:47 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: The "Petition" -- first specific thoughts on the focus... In-Reply-To: <200107201552.KAA16681@og1.olagrande.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720090411.02da05f0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Perhaps we could word the petition to Free Dmitry while also requesting review or repeal of DMCA... Wanting his cake and eating it too, Will At 10:52 AM 7/20/2001 -0500, noring@olagrande.net wrote: >Will replied: > > >Worded as you have it below, > >the online petition idea is great > >and EFF will definitely support it and > >publicize it once we get > >petition text that works for us > >and the community of activists here > >and elsewhere (which should not be difficult!). > > > >Anyone have the cycles to draft > >something? Feel free to crib from > >the materials already on the EFF > >website. > >The critical decision to make is the focus of this petition >(if that's what we want to call it -- it may be a "position >statement", or some such thing), and who, if any, it is >directed to (we may decide not to focus it on any one >organization or group -- thus for this it would not be a >petition per se but something a little different.) > >I advise against focusing the statement against Adobe, nor >to focus it solely on the Sklyarov matter, since the real >underlying issue is the DMCA itself -- it should be an >anti-DMCA statement. Obviously some wording can be included >showing the undersigned are aghast by Adobe's and the Fed's >actions, so it need not be blind to current events. (It is >the current events that provides the eye-opening reasons >why the DMCA is evil -- before Sklyarov it was mostly >academic in most people's eyes -- now we have something >real and human -- something people can relate to.) > >The reason for this is based on actual experience. Should >the petition be directed at Adobe, and Adobe happens to have >a change of heart, then the petition drive will immediately >wither, and the real culprit, the DMCA, will remain. Likewise >for Sklyarov -- if the charges are dropped and he is sent >back to Russia, a petition focused solely on freeing Sklyarov >will also falter, and the real culprit, the DMCA, will escape. >The real goal is overturning the DMCA (and the EU equivalent >which will take effect in a year or two), and if the DMCA is >overturned (which will take time, well beyond the life of the >anti-DMCA petition) then that is the real solution, the end >goal -- we simply use the Sklyarov matter as the real world >example to get people to sit up and listen. > >Now, if we are to focus it on any particular matter, I would >focus it on Freeing Sklyarov. But without the focus truly >being on the evils of the DMCA, it will be a feel good thing, >but won't be worth the effort to execute -- it's then better >to focus our efforts in other directions. We want the DMCA >to be put on trial, not Sklyarov. > >Jon Noring From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 09:12:57 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] How about getting the American Library Association (ALA) to make a statement of support for Sklyarov and against the DMCA? In-Reply-To: <200107201555.KAA16779@og1.olagrande.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720091223.02bb8e60@pop3.norton.antivirus> I've approached Judith Krug, who is the ALA person that handles a lot of the intellectual freedom issues. Free Dmitry, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 10:55 AM 7/20/2001 -0500, noring@olagrande.net wrote: >Sam Gray wrote: > > >I realize this is tangential to the immediate purpose of the list, which is > >to get Dmitry out of jail, but in the larger scheme of things, there's > >another large group of people who are just as mad about the DMCA, if not > >more so, as the geeks: librarians. (Spider Robinson said of librarians: > >"They're the Secret Masters of the Universe. Don't ever piss one off.") > > > >Librarians are our natural allies on this issue, and it's not too late to > >recruit them for picket lines. > >Yes, good point. I suggest EFF approach ALA and ask them to >at least issue a position paper on this affair, and hope >they will become more active than that. > >Jon Noring > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From x at LuisGuillermo.com Fri Jul 20 09:18:23 2001 From: x at LuisGuillermo.com (Luis Guillermo RESTREPO RIVAS) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] GIFs for links to the campaign In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mi faris grafikon GIF por ligi al la kampanjo "liberon por Sklyarov": En Angla: http://LuisGuillermo.com/libero_en.gif En La Internacia Lingvo (Esperanto): http://LuisGuillermo.com/libero_eo.gif En Hispana: http://LuisGuillermo.com/libero_es.gif Iu ajn povas uzi gxin. Mi metas ghin en publika posedo. = = = = == == = = = = = = = I have made a GIF grafic to link to the "free Sklyarov" campaign: In English: http://LuisGuillermo.com/libero_en.gif In The International Language (Esperanto): http://LuisGuillermo.com/libero_eo.gif In Spanish: http://LuisGuillermo.com/libero_es.gif Any one may use it. I put it in public domain. = = = = = = Luis Guillermo RESTREPO RIVAS http://LuisGuillermo.com From gnuchris at spokensource.com Fri Jul 20 22:13:15 2001 From: gnuchris at spokensource.com (Chris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] About San Diego Action. In-Reply-To: <3B584F4D.C865C7@artlung.com>; from joe@artlung.com on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 08:34:26AM -0700 References: <3B584F4D.C865C7@artlung.com> Message-ID: <20010721001315.B4241@gnuchris> Hey guys, > I'm not going to the Open Source Convention - but I'd be interested to > know if anything is happening in San Diego. > > Question though - was Dmitry's work open source? His work was not Open Source... it was very proprietary... he did however give a presentation about it at Defcon. Chris -- +----------------------------------------------------+ Christopher Carella GNU Volunteer Coordinator "The liberty of man consists solely in this: that he obeys natural laws because he has himself recognized them as such, and not because they have been externally imposed upon him by any extrinsic will whatever, divine or human, collective or individual." --Mikhail Bakunin, God and the State From esper at sherohman.org Fri Jul 20 09:18:57 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattle Protest In-Reply-To: ; from jeme@brelin.net on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 03:28:04PM -0700 References: <20010719161406.S19001@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20010720111857.D27798@sherohman.org> On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 03:28:04PM -0700, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Dave Sherohman wrote: > > I'd have to disagree. If I produce a product, I have every right to > > make it difficult for you to use. You are then free to take your > > business elsewhere, of course. > > > > You should, however, also be free to modify my product to make it > > easier to use, and that is what DMCA prohibits. > > Well, _I_ disagree. > > If I, as a member of the public, am granting you limited monopoly through > copyright, I demand that, in return, you provide me with published work in > an accessible form. I didn't mention earlier that I'm not a big fan of copyright in its current form, either... My main point it that I would prefer the government leave us free to act on our own behalf rather than try to protect us in areas it doesn't understand in the first place. > Copyright is a pact between the public and an author wherein the author > receives limited monopoly on copying and the public receives PUBLICATION > of the work. Nice theory, but it doesn't work that way these days. When was the last time you picked up a book and saw "(c) Author" instead of "(c) Publisher, Inc."? > I don't believe that a work that is difficult to access > should be considered "published". I don't believe that the legitimate owner of an item should be prevented from controlling its use. Before you add me to your killfile, let me say that this applies to both the publisher and the purchaser: The publisher can do what he wants and so can the purchaser. You encrypt, I decrypt. You restrict, I liberate. > > Interesting angle on this which just occurred to me... UCITA tried to > > legally protect 'self help' by companies to 'protect' themselves from > > consumers. DMCA prohibits consumers from taking any action to protect > > themselves from unfair action by companies. > > Please stop refering to us as "consumers". I am not a gaping mouth or a > bursting wallet. I am a citizen interacting in a community. When you purchase or use (i.e., consume) a product, you are, at that time, a consumer of that product. I make no claim that it's the core definition of your existence, but it is a role you take on at various times. > The DMCA prevents activities OUTSIDE the marketplace that are viewed as > negatively impacting the market inside. This is wrong. Market > protections should only apply to participants in the market. And here, perhaps, we have our fundamental disagreement. You want the market to protect consumers (er... customers? purchasers? What term do you prefer for the party to a market transaction who receives a finished good in exchange for money from a producer or distributor?). I say market protections should be abandoned or, at the very least, redesigned from the ground up. > > I'm not entirely convinced of that. The publisher you were responding > > to may have just been stating things as he did in order to (at least > > appear to) support the intent of the DMCA and show it to be counter- > > productive. Whether that appearance is equivalent to reality simply > > doesn't matter. > > The ends do not justify the means. I do not see how his means are harmful. > Why lock ourselves into that cycle when we can short-circuit it > completely? Why depend on legal protection when we know that Adobe and their like can hire a legal team with the ability to twist those laws to say whatever they want and just start exploiting us again? > A market economy exists because of scarcity. > Information is not scarce. > It is only the artificial scarcity of copyright that gives information its > inordinate monetary value. Absolutely. This is why the current system has to be redesigned from first principles. Any law that attempts to make it workable in the digital era will be a Band-Aid(TM, etc), at best. > The true value is in the unwritten work. Quite true. So, the ultimate question is: How do we get that work written (and allow its author to devote himself as fully to writing as he likes) without legally-enforced artificial scarcity? -- It's as if we outlawed cars on the principle that they could be used to help crooks escape from bank robberies. - Dan Gillmore on the DMCA From jwb235 at nyu.edu Fri Jul 20 09:21:13 2001 From: jwb235 at nyu.edu (Jon Bober) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F79@ryentes1.mobius.com > Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720120858.02c5c300@pop.nyu.edu> I believe that I am the only person on this list that has expressed interest in something in NYC. That was last night just before I went to sleep at around 1:30 or so. I woke up this morning to find that people had tried to jump on me to organize something. As could be inferred from the tone of that email, I am not ready to organize something all alone, but I would be willing to participate. I am not a hard-core protester, and I am not ready to go marching up and down streets by myself. I'll see if anyone else steps up. I'm not ready to be the contact on this. At 11:45 AM 7/20/01 -0400, you wrote: >Hi everybody, >I've just joined this mailing list. It's not like I often participate in >protest action, but it this case I think I would. Is any protest action >planned in New York City? I think there is a group of people who organized >protests during 2600 trial, is anything going on now? >Regards, >Leonid > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From watha at monitortan.com Fri Jul 20 10:28:08 2001 From: watha at monitortan.com (Hiawatha Bray) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thanks for the help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My story is finished. It's at http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/201/business/Hacker_s_arrest_decried%2b.sh tml Thanks for assisting me. Hiawatha Bray Technology Reporter Boston Globe P.O. Box 2378 135 Morrissey Blvd. Boston, MA 02107 USA 617-929-3119 voice 617-929-3183 fax bray@globe.com watha@monitortan.com From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 09:28:35 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720120858.02c5c300@pop.nyu.edu> References: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F79@ryentes1.mobius.com > Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720092644.02b6afe0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Stepping up would not be hard to do... basically you would just have to take emails and calls for a few days and inform people about the date, time, and location for the action. EFF will have sample leaflets, protest signs, and local media release out very soon, along with suggested slogans to chant at the protests. Will At 12:21 PM 7/20/2001 -0400, Jon Bober wrote: >I believe that I am the only person on this list that has expressed >interest in something in NYC. That was last night just before I went to >sleep at around 1:30 or so. I woke up this morning to find that people >had tried to jump on me to organize something. As could be inferred from >the tone of that email, I am not ready to organize something all alone, >but I would be willing to participate. I am not a hard-core protester, >and I am not ready to go marching up and down streets by myself. > >I'll see if anyone else steps up. I'm not ready to be the contact on this. > >At 11:45 AM 7/20/01 -0400, you wrote: >>Hi everybody, >>I've just joined this mailing list. It's not like I often participate in >>protest action, but it this case I think I would. Is any protest action >>planned in New York City? I think there is a group of people who organized >>protests during 2600 trial, is anything going on now? >>Regards, >>Leonid >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>free-sklyarov mailing list >>free-sklyarov@zork.net >>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From dredd at megacity.org Fri Jul 20 09:35:19 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] About San Diego Action. In-Reply-To: <20010721001315.B4241@gnuchris> References: <3B584F4D.C865C7@artlung.com> <20010721001315.B4241@gnuchris> Message-ID: At 12:13 AM -0500 7/21/01, Chris wrote: >Hey guys, > >> I'm not going to the Open Source Convention - but I'd be interested to >> know if anything is happening in San Diego. >> >> Question though - was Dmitry's work open source? > >His work was not Open Source... it was very proprietary... he did >however give a presentation about it at Defcon. It may not have been open source, but the ramifications UPON the open-source community, at a time when they're gathering en masse, is not something that should be wasted. D -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From seth.johnson at realmeasures.dyndns.org Fri Jul 20 09:38:45 2001 From: seth.johnson at realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda Message-ID: From: Len Sassaman > Give us another logo. SO far it's the only one we have to use. I'd have to think about it, plus I'm at work right now, and I probably couldn't execute an idea as well as might be desired, with my graphics software and abilities. I will try this evening and weekend, but I would have to stress that my input will have to be in the spirit of brainstorming. You'd have to let me and anybody who also gets triggered to comment or offer suggestions, be stupid, basically, until a good idea was come up with. Or find someone with a natural talent for this. Ask around, though, until I can see what I come up with. Anybody have any ideas? Seth Johnson > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Seth Johnson wrote: > > > > > Goran's right. > > > > The symbol resonates a certain way in the post-Reagan (and > -Thatcher) > > "West." But it's important to remember that we're on a global > stage. > > And Sklyarov's Russian. > > > > If it's "merely" a symbol, then at least groups working together on > this > > should present other logos and let the use of this logo per se be > just > > one of a number of logos different people are using. > > > > Seth Johnson > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Goran Thyni > > Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:25:25 +0200 > > > > > But, > > > > > > outside USA the symbol for many people represent not stalinist > Sovjet > > > Union, > > > but the struggle against oppression and feudalism. > > > The "Hammer and Sickle" represent the struggle of workers and > > > farmers. > > > > > > Since in this case we fight misconduct of big business the symbol > > > creates confusion, especially since the victim is Russian. > > > > > > Many people support this cause, use of this symbol is hinting a > > > wider polical agenda which will alienate supporters. > > > > > > best regards, > > > -- > > > Göran Thyni > > > Sweden From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 20 09:39:29 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] GIFs for links to the campaign In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87bsmf1rni.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "LGRR" == Luis Guillermo RESTREPO RIVAS writes: LGRR> Mi faris grafikon GIF por ligi al la kampanjo "liberon por LGRR> Sklyarov": Bonege! Vi estas heroo, Luis! Liberigu Dmitry-on, ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From me at ryanmarsh.com Fri Jul 20 07:39:15 2001 From: me at ryanmarsh.com (Ryan Marsh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Address In-Reply-To: <200107201559.f6KFxC416239@toocan.com> References: <200107201559.f6KFxC416239@toocan.com> Message-ID: <995639955.28240.39.camel@cocoon.butterflysoft.org> No mail bombs! 0wNz0r don't bL0wZ0r On 20 Jul 2001 15:59:17 +0000, ash@toocan.com wrote: > those seeking an address for adobe may want to use > > Colleen M. Pouliot > Adobe Systems / Legal Dept > 345 Park Ave M/S WT16 > San Jose, CA 95110 > > > Ms. Pouliot is Adobe's general counsel and meets frequently with decision > makers for adobe. she and those decision makers may appreciate your well > expressed concerns? > > pouliot@adobe.com > > > ash > > --------------------------------------------- > This message was sent from the domain toocan.com. > Have a great day. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Regards, -ryan The three great virtues of programming are laziness, impatience, and hubris, but bigotry makes the open-source world go round. From maxomai at aracnet.com Fri Jul 20 09:42:19 2001 From: maxomai at aracnet.com (Michael C. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Ashcroft in Mountain View, 20 July In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720003236.00a49050@mail.maden.org>; from crism@maden.org on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 12:34:36AM -0700 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720003236.00a49050@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <20010720094219.C28448@aracnet.com> (In response to the message below) I have no idea if this is open to the public. Nonetheless, people living in or near Mountain View have an hour and a half to get outside the talk and make a small stink about Dmitry. Mike Smith On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 12:34:36AM -0700, Christopher R. Maden wrote: > Did anyone else notice this on cryptome.org? > > > 19 July 2001: > The Department of Justice has sent out today an embargoed announcement of > US Attorney General John Ashcroft's appearance tomorrow in Mountain View, > CA, to speak on cybercrime: > > ----- > Department of Justice > For Planning Purposes Only - Not For Release AG > July 19, 2001 (202) 616-2777 > www.usdoj.gov TDD (202) 514-1888 > In CA: Lani Miller, (703) 395-4484 > > Washinton, DC -- Attorney General John Ashcroft will visit Northern > California tomorrow, Friday, July 20, to discuss cybercrime issues. > > When: 11:115AM (Pacific Time), Friday, July 20 > > What: Attorney General News Conference > Regarding Cybercrime > > Where: VeriSign Worldwide Headquarters > 487 East Middlefield Road > Mountain View, CA > > > Does anyone know if this will be open to the public? From maxomai at aracnet.com Fri Jul 20 09:43:23 2001 From: maxomai at aracnet.com (Michael C. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] US Atty General PHONE NUMBER Message-ID: <20010720094323.D28448@aracnet.com> 202-353-1555 Call and tell him to stop the prosecution of Dmitry Sklyarov. (BTW, his name is John Ashcroft :)) Spread the word!! Mike Smith From maxomai at aracnet.com Fri Jul 20 09:49:00 2001 From: maxomai at aracnet.com (Michael C. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] idea for San Jose protesters In-Reply-To: <200107200941.f6K9fql78052@www3.mailru.com>; from prostoalex@hotbox.ru on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 01:41:52PM +0400 References: <200107200941.f6K9fql78052@www3.mailru.com> Message-ID: <20010720094900.E28448@aracnet.com> This is a splendid idea. Small acts of "cultural terrorism" like this go a long way towards drawing attention to our cause. Besides, it's cute and the media likes it. Just make sure it's a sign that they can take down, and not spray paint that costs a lot of money to fix. That annoys people and makes you into vandals. Mike Smith On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 01:41:52PM +0400, Alexander Moskalyuk wrote: > > I was going through my picture collection and when I > was in San Jose I took several pics by the Adobe > building, since it was right across the street from > the hotel. > > Anyway, right in front of the Adobe building there is > quite an ugly sculpture. > http://moskalyuk.com/img/idf/013.htm > > Regardless of its artistic beauty, could that be used > for something like a big sign? Before Monday could > someone do a really big sign with Free Dmitry slogan > and BoycottAdobe.com? > > That would (a) turn the attention of press, (b) turn > the attention of the Adobe employees, (c) turn the > attention of people in San Jose Convention Center, and > there is constantly a tech conference going there (I > might be wrong on this, though). > > > Best regards, > Alexander Moskalyuk > http://www.moskalyuk.com/ > ICQ 44065387 > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From maxomai at aracnet.com Fri Jul 20 09:53:52 2001 From: maxomai at aracnet.com (Michael C. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda In-Reply-To: <20010720152525.A508@kirra.net>; from goran@kirra.net on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 03:25:25PM +0200 References: <87zoa0a4rk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010720152525.A508@kirra.net> Message-ID: <20010720095352.F28448@aracnet.com> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 03:25:25PM +0200, Goran Thyni wrote: > But, > > outside USA the symbol for many people represent not stalinist Sovjet Union, > but the struggle against oppression and feudalism. > The "Hammer and Sickle" represent the struggle of workers and farmers. > > Since in this case we fight misconduct of big business the symbol > creates confusion, especially since the victim is Russian. > > Many people support this cause, use of this symbol is hinting a > wider polical agenda which will alienate supporters. Hm, maybe we should use a swastika? Or a jackboot? > > best regards, > -- > G?ran Thyni > Sweden > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 04:59:26PM -0700, Victor Piterbarg wrote: > > I think the symbol is quite fitting. The way I interpret the symbol is that > > Adobe is identified with the old Soviet Regime. The Soviet Regime is in turn > > identified with opression. Therefore, Adobe + Hammer/Sickle = opressive > > regime. > > > > -Victor From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Jul 20 09:57:29 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sign slogans for Monday's protest In-Reply-To: <20010720094323.D28448@aracnet.com> Message-ID: EFF's action alert suggests 4 words at the most. I'm thinking maybe a DMCA acronym, like *D* ONT *M* AKE *C* RYPTOLOGY *A* CRIME Any other suggestions? -S [A nice big boycottadobe.org banner would be a good idea too.] From bwilson at gene.COM Fri Jul 20 10:03:35 2001 From: bwilson at gene.COM (Brian Wilson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] picket line chant Message-ID: <3B586466.F30FD718@gene.com> This might be an interesting picket line chant, sung to the tune of a famous Rolling Stones song... "Adobe... security... SHATTERED" "eBook... security... SHATTERED" Brian From peri at logorrhea.com Fri Jul 20 03:07:27 2001 From: peri at logorrhea.com (John Kew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] CA Central Coast Action Message-ID: <01072003072706.02984@moons.logorrhea.com> There is an Adobe branch office here on the central coast in San Luis Obispo, CA. I think I can manage a small protest. I've led protests before for DeCSS here. If anyone here is interested (From any of the five cities or from the valley) please email me so that we might coordinate something. The local lug group here is pretty tight, but with this being the summer quarter a lot of college folks are out of town. From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 20 10:10:21 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720120858.02c5c300@pop.nyu.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720120858.02c5c300@pop.nyu.edu> Message-ID: <87ofqfzfuq.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JB" == Jon Bober writes: JB> I am not a hard-core protester, and I am not ready to go JB> marching up and down streets by myself. That's too bad. Just to get this in focus: I don't think many of us =are= "hardcore protesters." We're ALL flying by the seat of our pants. In my experience, most of the people in the Bay Area are just Linux geeks and freedom lovers. We're making this go off because we want Dmitry to be free. If you can, try synching up with NY-LUG, the New York Linux Users Group. http://www.nylug.org/ They may be willing to step up to the plate. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Jul 20 10:13:01 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda In-Reply-To: <20010720095352.F28448@aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Michael C. Smith wrote: > > Many people support this cause, use of this symbol is hinting a > > wider polical agenda which will alienate supporters. > > Hm, maybe we should use a swastika? Or a jackboot? An Illuminati-style pyramid, with the unblinking eye and "we control everything" type slogan? Adobe's logo _is_ triangular, after all. -S From jrichard at cubicle.net Fri Jul 20 10:15:22 2001 From: jrichard at cubicle.net (Josh Richards) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] CA Central Coast Action In-Reply-To: <01072003072706.02984@moons.logorrhea.com>; from peri@logorrhea.com on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 03:07:27AM -0700 References: <01072003072706.02984@moons.logorrhea.com> Message-ID: <20010720101522.A3637@cubicle.net> * John Kew [20010720 10:08]: > There is an Adobe branch office here on the central coast in San Luis Obispo, > CA. I think I can manage a small protest. I've led protests before for DeCSS > here. > > If anyone here is interested (From any of the five cities or from the valley) > please email me so that we might coordinate something. > > The local lug group here is pretty tight, but with this being the summer > quarter a lot of college folks are out of town. Ah. Somebody from SLO. :-) Anybody else in the CA Central Coast region? I'm interested and have a few others who'd probably be interested in showing up to something local. We talked about going to the San Jose activities at Adobe HQ but this Monday just doesn't cut it for most of us to take a moderate road trip in the morning and back in the evening -- work activities just don't allow. Where is the Adobe office in SLO? Do you know what they do at it and/or how many people work out of it? -jr ---- Josh Richards [JTR38/JR539-ARIN] Geek Research, LLC - San Luis Obispo, CA - KG6CYK - IP/Unix/telecom/knowledge/coffee/security/crypto/business/geek From neale at woozle.org Fri Jul 20 10:17:30 2001 From: neale at woozle.org (Neale Pickett) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattle Update Message-ID: The plan so far for the Seattle protest is that we will start at 11:00am in Gasworks Park, head up Burke Avenue to 34th, and head west down 34th street to Adobe. We'll disperse at 1:00pm. The response to this has been a little more than I'd expected! So far I count about 20 people coming, but I'm sure more will contact me between now and Monday. Someone has even suggested (or maybe offered?) printing up T-shirts to sell at the Fremont Sunday market, which takes place over the weekend, just a block away from the Adobe campus. If anyone knows someone who can do this (print and sell the shirts at the market), please send me some contact information. Since I can't arrange a meeting, I'm thrown up a seattle-sklyarov mailing list at . I'm still keeping the web site up to date: . One question: the desk officer said I might need a street permit; investigating this reveals that they're pretty pricey! Was the officer just confused? Neale From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 20 10:19:20 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] OSCON San Diego action In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720072119.03214e80@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720072119.03214e80@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <87zo9zy0vb.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "BLQ" == Bob La Quey writes: BLQ> The Open Source Convention will be meeting in San Diego this BLQ> next week JUly 23-27. Since this is perhaps the largest BLQ> single gathering of Free/Open Source software people anywhere BLQ> we should certainly plan some action in response to the BLQ> Sklyarov Affair. BLQ> Thoughts? Yeah: step up and make a plan, Bob! It'd be super-cool to have an event at OSCON on Monday, coinciding with the rest of the nationwide events. Pick a time, pick a place! ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From maxomai at aracnet.com Fri Jul 20 10:20:15 2001 From: maxomai at aracnet.com (Michael C. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Petitions Suggestions Message-ID: <20010720102015.G28448@aracnet.com> On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 11:50:47PM -0700, Will Doherty wrote: > A well-worded petition could be helpful... let's be > careful to select the right recipient and the right > message. > > For example, should the recipient be Adobe or > the US Attorney's office? It should be the US Attourney's Office. Definitely. Adobe has little power compared to John Ashcroft. Although photocopies should go to the President, and to Rep. Rick Boucher (D-VA) (which he can then use to help his efforts to repeal DMCA.) Photocopies should also be presented to the Russian Consulate and the US attorneys handling the case. Although all the petitions should be addressed to John Ashcroft, giving photocopies to these parties let's them know that the pressure's on. We should set a goal of collecting 100,000 signatures. Web based is good for this, but also have physical signature collection going on at the demonstrations. I'm on a tight schedule so I'll let someone else word the petition. But the basic message has to be "stop prosecuting Dmitry and refrain from other prosecutions of DMCA." Hope this helps. Mike Smith ----- End forwarded message ----- From LGORKIN at mobius.com Fri Jul 20 10:22:23 2001 From: LGORKIN at mobius.com (Leonid Gorkin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? Message-ID: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F7B@ryentes1.mobius.com> I can be a contact person if we try to organize a protest. I think we need to do it on Monday, together with the protests in other cities. I cannot find Adobe office in New Yor, do anybody know if they are here? Do we need to file a permit with the mayors office or police department? I have no experience organizing this kind of events, so I would appreciate any help. Regards, Leonid lgorkin@excite.com phone: 212 794 1565 -----Original Message----- From: Klepht [mailto:klepht@eleutheria.org] Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 1:10 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? >>>>> "JB" == Jon Bober writes: JB> I am not a hard-core protester, and I am not ready to go JB> marching up and down streets by myself. That's too bad. Just to get this in focus: I don't think many of us =are= "hardcore protesters." We're ALL flying by the seat of our pants. In my experience, most of the people in the Bay Area are just Linux geeks and freedom lovers. We're making this go off because we want Dmitry to be free. If you can, try synching up with NY-LUG, the New York Linux Users Group. http://www.nylug.org/ They may be willing to step up to the plate. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From paul at paultopia.net Fri Jul 20 10:23:31 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] more on portland Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720112326.00c746f0@mail.paultopia.net> Jeme said: >On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Paul Gowder wrote: > > I've also put together an egroup for planning the Portland action. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/portland-sklyarov-protest > >I ain't joinin' a yahoogroups thing for nobody, never. Ok, I'll kill it. >I have a mailman server here at bitmine.net if all we need is a mailing >list. Go for it! >I'm looking at getting a group of people together on Saturday morning to >work stuff out... who's game? I can't show, seeing as I'll be 500 miles away tomorrow morning, but I can call in. Won't be in PDX until Monday morning. >We might be able to use one of the rooms at the temporary Nader office >downtown, but don't quote me because I haven't even broached the subject >with anyone who would have permission to allow such a thing. My house is >empty for the weekend and I'm a few blocks from a Kinko's and a hardware >store, so it might be a good place all around. See if you can get a room with a phone, I'll call in from across the state. -Paul -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From gte978m at prism.gatech.edu Fri Jul 20 10:25:10 2001 From: gte978m at prism.gatech.edu (Christopher Joseph Parnin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattle Update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 20 Jul 2001, Neale Pickett wrote: > Someone has even suggested (or maybe offered?) printing up T-shirts to > sell at the Fremont Sunday market, which takes place over the weekend, It would be nice to convince copyleft.net to try selling some of these t-shirts. They have still have some t-shirts from the DeCSS case. -- Chris Parnin CS2130TA vector@cc.gatech.edu You won't do what you'd like to do. -- Tool "Undertow". From declan at well.com Fri Jul 20 10:28:26 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DC-Baltimore-Northern Virginia action on Monday? Message-ID: <20010720132826.B24891@cluebot.com> Anything planned? This is home to the largest concentration of media, um, talent in the U.S. Not to mention the FBI, DOJ, and Congress. -Declan Washington, DC From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 10:32:23 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DC-Baltimore-Northern Virginia action on Monday? In-Reply-To: <20010720132826.B24891@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720103209.02018f50@pop3.norton.antivirus> Working on it... want to help? :-) At 01:28 PM 7/20/2001 -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: >Anything planned? This is home to the largest concentration of media, >um, talent in the U.S. Not to mention the FBI, DOJ, and Congress. > >-Declan >Washington, DC > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jwb235 at nyu.edu Fri Jul 20 10:37:47 2001 From: jwb235 at nyu.edu (Jon Bober) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F7B@ryentes1.mobius.com > Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720133018.02fb7ec0@pop.nyu.edu> alright, i am willing to be in on this. a search on www.superpages.com yields: Adobe Systems Inc 8 West 40th Street, New York, NY 10018 (212) 221-6737 looks like an adobe building. other than that, i don't have much information, but i am willing to help, though i would also need help. At 01:22 PM 7/20/01 -0400, you wrote: >I can be a contact person if we try to organize a protest. I think we need >to do it on Monday, together with the protests in other cities. I cannot >find Adobe office in New Yor, do anybody know if they are here? Do we need >to file a permit with the mayors office or police department? I have no >experience organizing this kind of events, so I would appreciate any help. > >Regards, >Leonid > >lgorkin@excite.com >phone: 212 794 1565 > >-----Original Message----- >From: Klepht [mailto:klepht@eleutheria.org] >Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 1:10 PM >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net >Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? > > > >>>>> "JB" == Jon Bober writes: > > JB> I am not a hard-core protester, and I am not ready to go > JB> marching up and down streets by myself. > >That's too bad. > >Just to get this in focus: I don't think many of us =are= "hardcore >protesters." We're ALL flying by the seat of our pants. In my >experience, most of the people in the Bay Area are just Linux geeks >and freedom lovers. We're making this go off because we want Dmitry to >be free. > >If you can, try synching up with NY-LUG, the New York Linux Users >Group. > > http://www.nylug.org/ > >They may be willing to step up to the plate. > >~Klepht > >-- >klepht@eleutheria.org >http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Fri Jul 20 10:38:57 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] press conference in the uk References: Message-ID: <3B586CB1.B31201CE@sheffield.ac.uk> Hi, My name is Anton Cheterenlikht. I know Dmitry personaly for almost 10 years. There is another guy in Cambridge who is a much better friend of Dmitry then me. We have an idea to organise a press-conference here in the uk. The situation is unique. I do not know of any other Dmitry's friends living outside Russia. We can tell media some detailes which noone else (his collegues ex.) will give. We can tell them: 1. We are very worried about our friend. 2. We are especially worried after we've seen his interview. He looks completelly exasted. 3. We want to emphasise that we cannot undersatnd the need for him (even if he is guilty) to be arrested. 4. Our main thesis: Dmitry should be released on bail. 5. We want to tell the UK media the controvercy of DMCA, potential danger of it being used against the uk citizens and researches. 6. and so on 7. he is NO hacker I really have no time to write now. Please everyone who have any contacts wth UK media or something simila, who are in the uk and want to help - write me we have to make a plan. At the moment both of us are very busy with finding contacts bu twe have no idea at all. It can take days, maybe week without your help. anton I'll read your comments in 2 hours --------------------------------------- Anton Chterenlikht Research Assistant Mechanical Engineering Department Sheffield University Mappin Street Sheffield S1 3JD UK Tel: (+) 114 2227863 Fax: (+) 114 2226015 Email: a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk --------------------------------------- From free-sklyarov at happycool.com Fri Jul 20 10:37:08 2001 From: free-sklyarov at happycool.com (Victor Piterbarg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Southern California? In-Reply-To: <20010720023403.A21326@d13.com> Message-ID: I'm from LA, and I'm going up to SJ with a couple of people, for the main protest. Grab some friends and drive to SJ, it's close enough. -Victor -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of jason@d13.com Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:34 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Southern California? Anybody on this list in Southern California? I think a protest is in order. At one time there was a small adobe office in Irvine, http://www.educause.edu/memdir/corp-profiles/30880.html The Federal building in West LA or the Federal Court in downtown LA would also be good places to show support for Dmitri. _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From mattreve at hotmail.com Fri Jul 20 10:41:50 2001 From: mattreve at hotmail.com (Matt Revelle) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Washington D.C. Protest Message-ID: I live just outside of DC and am trying to either find or form a protest together for Washington D.C. on Monday, the 23rd. Anyone who knows of a planned protest for Skylarov in the VA/MD/DC area or would be interested in planning one, please contact me directly at mattreve@hotmail.com . -matt _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ericeldred at usa.net Fri Jul 20 10:43:35 2001 From: ericeldred at usa.net (Eric Eldred) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Boston Globe article Message-ID: <20010720174335.13786.qmail@aw162.netaddress.usa.net> >My story is finished. It's at >http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/201/business/Hacker_s_arrest_decried%2b.shtml >Thanks for assisting me. >Hiawatha Bray Watha, there is a slight but important inaccuracy in the story: >However, the DMCA makes it a federal felony to crack encryption that >limits the copying of digital information. It carries a possible five->year prison sentence and $500,000 fine. What Sklyarov is charged with is "trafficking" in a "device" that can be used to decrypt, not in the actual "crack" itself. The DMCA says nothing about decryption done to gain fair use and not disseminated to others. For example, a librarian who happens to be an expert cryptographer can decrypt an encrypted ebook whose contents happen to be in the public domain, perfectly legally even under the DMCA. The only legal problem is if she tells someone else how to do it, since the same encryption means might be used to lock up a book not in the public domain. The only criterion is if the "technical" means of encryption are "effectively" used to control use. (As an example, at my ebook site, http://www.eldritchpress.org, there are a couple of books I publish, that I took from the encrypted Microsoft Reader format. The underlying book content is in the public domain. But it would probably be illegal for me to tell you how I did it.) As others have ably pointed out here, the words "crack" and "hacker" are not appropriate in this case, as the accused is neither a hacker nor a cracker, but a respected research scientist. It should be the DMCA on trial here, not him. I hope the DMCA will be overturned. But there are good reasons to argue for freedom for Sklyarov on many grounds. Note that the accused is not charged with infringing copyright, and the accuser is not the copyright holder to a ebook that anyone can show was illegally copied or infringed. In fact, it is necessary to buy the ebook before applying AEBPR to it. I don't think the DMCA was ever meant to prohibit this fair use. It might be the case that copies of ebooks made with the program might be distributed to others; in that case, ordinary copyright laws can be used to stop the distribution, and the DMCA is superfluous. Secondly, the DMCA contains provisions protecting research and reverse engineering of cyphers and codes. I don't think that this user-based discrimination of speech is valid, but if the DMCA is held to be constitutional, then these exceptions ought to apply to Sklyarov if they apply to anybody. His presence in the U.S. was simply to give a talk on the fruits of his research, not to sell the program or import it from a country in which it is perfectly legal. Thirdly, the AEBPR has significant legal commercial use to be allowed under the DMCA. All it does, really, is permit the legal purchaser of an encrypted ebook to view the ebook on another platform in another format--in fact, in PDF format, which is also owned by Adobe. The situation is very similar to the legal battle between Real Networks and other companies (partly owned by Microsoft) over programs that transformed from one proprietary format to a competitor's. I can't see how this can ever be considered to be copyright infringement. The user of the program has to buy a legal copy to begin with. Once this first sale is made, I can't see how the courts can enforce the publisher's control over all uses of the ebook. The situation is exactly parallel to that of a printed book publisher trying to prohibit all purchasers of the book from reselling it or redistributing it in a different binding from the original. As an example, in order for a blind person to read some of these books encrypted by Adobe, it would be necessary either for the user to be an expert cryptographer, or else buy the AEBPR and use it to decrypt a legally purchased copy of the ebook and feed it into a text to speech synthesizer or Braille printer. There are whole classes of users who have legitimate uses for AEBPR and the courts need to recognize that a balance has to be struck between publishers and users. And Adobe is not the publisher! Many of these issues arose in the 2600 trial and briefs. I am glad that we now have a case about ebooks, since I think that the general public might be more concerned about books than about software programs that many fear are magic. Locking up books is against the public interest, unnecessary, and corrupts our laws. We need to put the focus on the DMCA being a bad law, one that is not even in the best interests of software companies like Adobe, nor of ethical ebook publishers, and certainly not of authors, who uniformly wish their books to be accessible to all readers. We need to point out that if the DMCA is upheld then the U.S. lead in software will evaporate as intelligent programmers move to free countries. We need to point out that locking up books means the death of public libraries and used book stores. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 From sklyarov at lethe.com Fri Jul 20 10:41:57 2001 From: sklyarov at lethe.com (Kevin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Director Robert Sedgewick contact info References: Message-ID: <018a01c11143$9efcc050$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> This is interesting. Isn't Edward Felten also a professor with the Department of Computer Science at Princeton? Perhaps someone at EFF who knows Prof. Felten could talk to him, see if it could approach Prof. Sedgewick about this. Kevin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adobe Demonstrator" To: Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:40 AM Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Director Robert Sedgewick contact info > On the Adobe Board of Directors, our most likely supporter will > probably be Robert Sedgewick, a Computer Science Professor at > Princeton University. He is listed in their directory: > > Robert Sedgewick > Department of Computer Science > Princeton University > Princeton, NJ 08544 > email: rs@cs.Princeton.EDU > telephone: 609-258-4345 > homepage: http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~rs/ > > Free Sklyarov! > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From jwb235 at nyu.edu Fri Jul 20 10:45:49 2001 From: jwb235 at nyu.edu (Jon Bober) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720133018.02fb7ec0@pop.nyu.edu> References: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F7B@ryentes1.mobius.com > Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720134240.02fae620@pop.nyu.edu> this might be a good location - a few blocks from times square, by bryant park, and on 5th ave. At 01:37 PM 7/20/01 -0400, you wrote: >alright, i am willing to be in on this. > >a search on www.superpages.com yields: > >Adobe Systems Inc >8 West 40th Street, New York, NY 10018 >(212) 221-6737 > >looks like an adobe building. other than that, i don't have much >information, but i am willing to help, though i would also need help. > > > >At 01:22 PM 7/20/01 -0400, you wrote: >>I can be a contact person if we try to organize a protest. I think we need >>to do it on Monday, together with the protests in other cities. I cannot >>find Adobe office in New Yor, do anybody know if they are here? Do we need >>to file a permit with the mayors office or police department? I have no >>experience organizing this kind of events, so I would appreciate any help. >> >>Regards, >>Leonid >> >>lgorkin@excite.com >>phone: 212 794 1565 >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Klepht [mailto:klepht@eleutheria.org] >>Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 1:10 PM >>To: free-sklyarov@zork.net >>Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? >> >> >> >>>>> "JB" == Jon Bober writes: >> >> JB> I am not a hard-core protester, and I am not ready to go >> JB> marching up and down streets by myself. >> >>That's too bad. >> >>Just to get this in focus: I don't think many of us =are= "hardcore >>protesters." We're ALL flying by the seat of our pants. In my >>experience, most of the people in the Bay Area are just Linux geeks >>and freedom lovers. We're making this go off because we want Dmitry to >>be free. >> >>If you can, try synching up with NY-LUG, the New York Linux Users >>Group. >> >> http://www.nylug.org/ >> >>They may be willing to step up to the plate. >> >>~Klepht >> >>-- >>klepht@eleutheria.org >>http://www.eleutheria.org/ >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>free-sklyarov mailing list >>free-sklyarov@zork.net >>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>free-sklyarov mailing list >>free-sklyarov@zork.net >>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From brenno at dewinter.com Fri Jul 20 11:43:26 2001 From: brenno at dewinter.com (Brenno J.S.A.A.F. de Winter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [free-sklyarov] References: Message-ID: <3B587BCE.C168DBD1@dewinter.com> Dear all, Last week I was speaking at DEFCON myself. I was speaking myself on IPv6. The case has really made me thinking. I was wondering. Do you know the word potential viral software? Out of a sense of security I plan on rejecting e-mails on my server that contains the poorly secured '.PDF'-extensions! Something to add to the boycot I think! Stop using the format and letting it on the servers. Cheers, Brenno de Winter The Netherlands From eliseeva at panix.com Fri Jul 20 10:51:48 2001 From: eliseeva at panix.com (Maria Eliseeva) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Reporting on Moscow press conference tomorrow and on the demonstration on Monday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A friend of mine is a jouralism student at Boston University. She is in Moscow right now (she is English/Russian/French/German speaking). I can get in touch with her there and put her in touch with people coordinating media events in Moscow. As a journalist, she would be perfect to do a report or to assist in reporting for a newspaper/TV/radio/multimedia company from Moscow. If there is an interested media company, please contact me at maria@patentbar.com. I contacted Boston Globe, which is on my home truf, but it is Friday afternoon, and if I don't hear from the folks there, then any interested media outlet should be able to use this reporting. Maria Eliseeva --- http://www.patentbar.com From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 10:52:12 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Southern California? In-Reply-To: References: <20010720023403.A21326@d13.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720105145.02bf1578@pop3.norton.antivirus> We encourage folks in LA to stay in LA and protest there. Of course, if you really feel moved to come to SJ, you are welcome. :-) Will At 10:37 AM 7/20/2001 -0700, Victor Piterbarg wrote: >I'm from LA, and I'm going up to SJ with a couple of people, for the main >protest. Grab some friends and drive to SJ, it's close enough. > >-Victor > >-----Original Message----- >From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net >[mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of jason@d13.com >Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:34 AM >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Southern California? > > >Anybody on this list in Southern California? I think a protest is in >order. > >At one time there was a small adobe office in Irvine, > > http://www.educause.edu/memdir/corp-profiles/30880.html > >The Federal building in West LA or the Federal Court in downtown LA >would also be good places to show support for Dmitri. > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From LGORKIN at mobius.com Fri Jul 20 10:55:04 2001 From: LGORKIN at mobius.com (Leonid Gorkin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? Message-ID: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F7E@ryentes1.mobius.com> I guess Adobe office here is more like a couple of rooms on 14th floor of some skyscraper. I found a federal courthouse building: 500 Pearl Street, not far from mayor's office. -----Original Message----- From: Jon Bober [mailto:jwb235@nyu.edu] Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 1:46 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? this might be a good location - a few blocks from times square, by bryant park, and on 5th ave. At 01:37 PM 7/20/01 -0400, you wrote: >alright, i am willing to be in on this. > >a search on www.superpages.com yields: > >Adobe Systems Inc >8 West 40th Street, New York, NY 10018 >(212) 221-6737 > >looks like an adobe building. other than that, i don't have much >information, but i am willing to help, though i would also need help. > > > >At 01:22 PM 7/20/01 -0400, you wrote: >>I can be a contact person if we try to organize a protest. I think we need >>to do it on Monday, together with the protests in other cities. I cannot >>find Adobe office in New Yor, do anybody know if they are here? Do we need >>to file a permit with the mayors office or police department? I have no >>experience organizing this kind of events, so I would appreciate any help. >> >>Regards, >>Leonid >> >>lgorkin@excite.com >>phone: 212 794 1565 >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Klepht [mailto:klepht@eleutheria.org] >>Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 1:10 PM >>To: free-sklyarov@zork.net >>Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? >> >> >> >>>>> "JB" == Jon Bober writes: >> >> JB> I am not a hard-core protester, and I am not ready to go >> JB> marching up and down streets by myself. >> >>That's too bad. >> >>Just to get this in focus: I don't think many of us =are= "hardcore >>protesters." We're ALL flying by the seat of our pants. In my >>experience, most of the people in the Bay Area are just Linux geeks >>and freedom lovers. We're making this go off because we want Dmitry to >>be free. >> >>If you can, try synching up with NY-LUG, the New York Linux Users >>Group. >> >> http://www.nylug.org/ >> >>They may be willing to step up to the plate. >> >>~Klepht >> >>-- >>klepht@eleutheria.org >>http://www.eleutheria.org/ >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>free-sklyarov mailing list >>free-sklyarov@zork.net >>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>free-sklyarov mailing list >>free-sklyarov@zork.net >>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jstyre at jstyre.com Fri Jul 20 10:50:47 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Director Robert Sedgewick contact info In-Reply-To: <018a01c11143$9efcc050$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010720104733.00b067d0@earthlink.net> Done. (I'm one of the EFF affiliated lawyers representing Ed and the others in their case.) At 10:41 AM 07/20/2001 -0700, Kevin wrote: >This is interesting. Isn't Edward Felten also a professor with the >Department of Computer Science at Princeton? > >Perhaps someone at EFF who knows Prof. Felten could talk to him, see if it >could approach Prof. Sedgewick about this. > >Kevin > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Adobe Demonstrator" >To: >Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:40 AM >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Director Robert Sedgewick contact info > > > > On the Adobe Board of Directors, our most likely supporter will > > probably be Robert Sedgewick, a Computer Science Professor at > > Princeton University. He is listed in their directory: > > > > Robert Sedgewick > > Department of Computer Science > > Princeton University > > Princeton, NJ 08544 > > email: rs@cs.Princeton.EDU > > telephone: 609-258-4345 > > homepage: http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~rs/ > > > > Free Sklyarov! -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 20 10:57:01 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F7B@ryentes1.mobius.com> References: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F7B@ryentes1.mobius.com> Message-ID: <87hew7xz4i.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "LG" == Leonid Gorkin writes: LG> I can be a contact person if we try to organize a protest. I LG> think we need to do it on Monday, together with the protests LG> in other cities. I cannot find Adobe office in New Yor, do LG> anybody know if they are here? Do we need to file a permit LG> with the mayors office or police department? I have no LG> experience organizing this kind of events, so I would LG> appreciate any help. Leonid, You can do this! Go go go! We need you in New York! First thing is: pick that spot mentioned (Adobe) and put your name up as the contact. Get that to EFF RIGHT AWAY, because they need it. 1) Pick a time, place, and agenda. I think you've got this, so get it announced! 2) ANNOUNCE it as far as you can. Getting it out TODAY, RIGHT NOW is a good thing, because it's last day people are going to be looking at the Web or email for a while. I bet if you get it out today, people can put it up on EFF in a few hours. 3) When you announce, try and do it in an authoritative tone of voice. Not, "if people will come, I will." Say it like, "THIS WILL HAPPEN. This event is GOING OFF." You have to face the fact that you just may end up standing in the rain, by yourself, in your underwear, crying and handing out leaflets. It's like "Ghost Dog" -- once you face that, you can kick ass. It's the way of the Event Samurai! There have been at least three inquiries on the list today, so you won't be alone! 4) Give people stuff to bring and do, and a contact email/# to get to you. 5) Call the cops and tell them what's up. This will keep you from having a problem on the event day. For some reason, they usually don't care, but if someone complains they can sweep you along for not having notified them. Go figure. 6) Hit as many announcement venues as you can. Try Linux Users' Groups or other computer users' groups, hipster lists (what's that thing -- the Rhizome list?), Web lists, etc. Do they have a Craig's List in NYC? Try the Craig's List, too. 7) Before the event, make these things: a whole bunch of copies of a flier -- I think Tabinda Khan is working on one, which should be really good. Also, make at least two picket signs. You can get poster board at Staples or Office Depot for like 1.39 for 10 sheets. PERFECT. Make a couple, bring the rest of the paper for other people to make signs. (Oh, and some markers!). Also, bring a clipboard. I dunno why, but having a clipboard makes you look like you've got your shit together. 8) Try and synch up with the EFF to get press there. They can probably swing it. 9) At the event: hold up your sign. Pass out flyers. Towards the middle of the time period, give a little speech about Dmitry, if you feel like. Rally the troops. And then let them drift away. That's it! It's that easy! You're totally able to pull it off, man! You've GOT to make this happen! We really NEED someone in NYC! ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From pedro at tastytronic.net Fri Jul 20 10:58:45 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Protest Needs People! Message-ID: <20010720125845.G284@tastytronic.net> Hey all, Nate Riffe is going to be the contact man for a Chicago protest on Monday from 11 to 1. If you are interested or live in the area, please contact him and consider coming downtown and protesting. Details are forthcoming. pedro -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter A. Peterson II, CEO Users of Free Operating Systems, Chicago USA http://ufo.chicago.il.us -- Free Software Rules -- Proprietary Drools! From seth.johnson at realmeasures.dyndns.org Fri Jul 20 10:51:50 2001 From: seth.johnson at realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda Message-ID: I can't facilitate (or enable, for that matter) the logo discussion right now. Can someone try to see whether anything is going to come of the discussion that's starting? I can't speak up much for a while. Seth Johnson From tneu at visi.com Fri Jul 20 11:06:09 2001 From: tneu at visi.com (Tim Neu) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chants In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here's something anyone can understand: Keep Russian laws in Russia, US laws in USA =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- What the president of the Motion Picture Association of America says about taking away your constitutional rights: "I'm rather jubilant now. What Judge Kaplan did was blow away every one of these brittle and fragile rebuttals. He threw out fair use; he threw out reverse engineering; he threw out linking." - Jack Valenti, president of the Motion Picture Association of America. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ______ _ __ "If you don't have the freedom to use what you / ' ) ) own - then you do not own anything." / o ______ / / _ . . No apologies to Jack Valenti or the MPAA / <_/ / / < / (_ References: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F7B@ryentes1.mobius.com> <87hew7xz4i.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <878zhjxyp3.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "K" == Klepht writes: K> Leonid, You can do this! Go go go! We need you in New York! Haw! I've sent off-list encouragment messages like this to many of you. I accidentally sent this one to the list. Whoops! I'm totally busted. B-) ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 20 11:11:04 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720120858.02c5c300@pop.nyu.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Jon Bober wrote: > I believe that I am the only person on this list that has expressed > interest in something in NYC. That was last night just before I went > to sleep at around 1:30 or so. I woke up this morning to find that > people had tried to jump on me to organize something. As could be > inferred from the tone of that email, I am not ready to organize > something all alone, but I would be willing to participate. I am not > a hard-core protester, and I am not ready to go marching up and down > streets by myself. > > I'll see if anyone else steps up. I'm not ready to be the contact on this. I'll be at the protest on Monday in front of the New York offices of Adobe, right across the street from the New York Public Library. Folk on nylug-talk are discussing the protest. We'll need placards, and perhaps we should get a permit. http://www.nylug.org oo--JS. From erc at pobox.com Fri Jul 20 11:14:37 2001 From: erc at pobox.com (Ed Carp) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Legality of Sklyarov's arrest and Dallas/Houston protest? Message-ID: <000601c11147$d62d7ca0$0bc9a8c0@khijol.org> It is my opinion that not only is Sklyarov being held unlawfully (because the original complaint didn't specify exactly *how* Sklyarov violated the DMCA), but the DMCA doesn't apply to him, because (1) encryption circumvention isn't a crime in Russia, and (2) he hasn't committed a crime on US soil! The presumption in the complaint seems to be that since (A) encryption circumvention is a crime, (B) Sklyarov violated the DMCA in that respect (regardless of where he was when he did it), and (C) Sklyarov was in the US at some point, it naturally follows that (D) Sklyarov has violated US law and can be arrested. Uh, no, sorry, go back to law school - and this time, don't sleep through the constitutional law class! In the original complaint (from http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010707_complaint.html): I, the undersigned complainant being duly sworn state the following is true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. On or about June 26, 2001 in Santa Clara county, in the Northern District of California defendant(s) did, (Track Statutory Language of Offense) import, offer to the public, provide, and otherwise traffic in a software product that is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof, and aid and abet such conduct. in violation of Title 17 United States Code, Section(s) 1201(b)(1)(A) and 18 U.S.C. Sec.2 Oh, really? Hmmm...on reading the complaint, I can find no supporting documentation or evidence that says Sklyarov did "import, offer to the public, provide, and otherwise traffic" in the US! Please note the use of the word "and". If the information that the arrest warrant is based on is invalid, the arrest warrant itself is invalid on its face, and Sklyarov should be freed immediately. If I were his attorney, I'd be down filing a writ of habeas corpus right now. On a related note, anyone know if a protest is being organized in either Dallas or Houston for Monday? -- Ed Carp, N7EKG - erc@pobox.com - 214/986-5870 (cell phone) - http://www.pobox.com/~erc Is your web site data driven? Are you swamped with work managing, updating, and deploying that data on to your web site? You need Escapade! Check us out at http://www.squishedmosquito.com/cgi-bin/esp?PAGE=esp_intro.html From jeyk at home.com Fri Jul 20 11:11:52 2001 From: jeyk at home.com (Jey Kottalam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Southern California References: <20010720023403.A21326@d13.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720105145.02bf1578@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <003401c11147$73cc65d0$862ef90a@private> Or come give us a hand in San Diego.. we're closer! =D I'm contacting the local LUGs in San Diego to see if we can organize a protest here. I also noticed a Bob La Quey on this list -- I believe he's associated with the KPLUG, is he coordinating anything with the KPLUG? -Jey Kottalam "My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right." -- /usr/bin/fortune > We encourage folks in LA to stay in LA and protest there. > > Of course, if you really feel moved to come to SJ, you > are welcome. :-) > > Will > > At 10:37 AM 7/20/2001 -0700, Victor Piterbarg wrote: > >I'm from LA, and I'm going up to SJ with a couple of people, for the main > >protest. Grab some friends and drive to SJ, it's close enough. > > > >-Victor > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > >[mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of jason@d13.com > >Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:34 AM > >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Southern California? > > > > > >Anybody on this list in Southern California? I think a protest is in > >order. > > > >At one time there was a small adobe office in Irvine, > > > > http://www.educause.edu/memdir/corp-profiles/30880.html > > > >The Federal building in West LA or the Federal Court in downtown LA > >would also be good places to show support for Dmitri. > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From gomes at navigo.com Fri Jul 20 11:17:30 2001 From: gomes at navigo.com (Carlos Macedo Gomes) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? References: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F7B@ryentes1.mobius.com > <5.1.0.14.0.20010720134240.02fae620@pop.nyu.edu> Message-ID: <005901c11148$50fe5fd0$9d01000a@cgomesw2k> Jon and Leonid, I believe we do have to get a permit to protest in NYC- at least officially. I'll try to contact a few groups that may have a better understanding of the legal side and will update ASAP. If we're shooting for Monday that doesn't give us much time to get the paper work together if it's needed. The location below sounds good to me. We should put out a larger call for support online (nylug.org, lxny.org, Perl Mongers, local EFF chapters, etc). I've sent an email to the secretary at lxny.org but don't have any direct contact w/ the other groups. So right now we have 3 in NYC. 2's company and 3's a crowd? It's at least enough to cover an intersection handing out flyers. I'm game to meet sometime tomorrow to check heads and work out a game plan. I suggest the Barnes and Nobles near Union Square but I'm flexible. regards, C.G. -- gomes@navigo.com Carlos Macedo Gomes _sic itur ad astra_ 1/1; ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Bober" To: Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 1:45 PM Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? > this might be a good location - a few blocks from times square, by bryant > park, and on 5th ave. > At 01:37 PM 7/20/01 -0400, you wrote: > >alright, i am willing to be in on this. > > > >a search on www.superpages.com yields: > > > >Adobe Systems Inc > >8 West 40th Street, New York, NY 10018 > >(212) 221-6737 > > > >looks like an adobe building. other than that, i don't have much > >information, but i am willing to help, though i would also need help. > > > > > > > >At 01:22 PM 7/20/01 -0400, you wrote: > >>I can be a contact person if we try to organize a protest. I think we need > >>to do it on Monday, together with the protests in other cities. I cannot > >>find Adobe office in New Yor, do anybody know if they are here? Do we need > >>to file a permit with the mayors office or police department? I have no > >>experience organizing this kind of events, so I would appreciate any help. > >> > >>Regards, > >>Leonid > >> > >>lgorkin@excite.com > >>phone: 212 794 1565 > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Klepht [mailto:klepht@eleutheria.org] > >>Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 1:10 PM > >>To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > >>Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? > >> > >> > >> >>>>> "JB" == Jon Bober writes: > >> > >> JB> I am not a hard-core protester, and I am not ready to go > >> JB> marching up and down streets by myself. > >> > >>That's too bad. > >> > >>Just to get this in focus: I don't think many of us =are= "hardcore > >>protesters." We're ALL flying by the seat of our pants. In my > >>experience, most of the people in the Bay Area are just Linux geeks > >>and freedom lovers. We're making this go off because we want Dmitry to > >>be free. > >> > >>If you can, try synching up with NY-LUG, the New York Linux Users > >>Group. > >> > >> http://www.nylug.org/ > >> > >>They may be willing to step up to the plate. > >> > >>~Klepht > >> > >>-- > >>klepht@eleutheria.org > >>http://www.eleutheria.org/ > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>free-sklyarov mailing list > >>free-sklyarov@zork.net > >>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>free-sklyarov mailing list > >>free-sklyarov@zork.net > >>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Jul 20 11:10:44 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] translation [Re: Sklyarov+SMI] In-Reply-To: <004f01c11120$242ae0a0$0100a8c0@ilin> Message-ID: Below is a translation of the message sent by Sergey Yu. Ilyin to this list at 20 Jul 2001 17:30:41 +0400 in Russian: Gentlemen! The article in Banners, as I promised, regarding Sklyarov's arrest has been published today in the "politics" section of Russkiy Zhurnal (The Russian Journal). A link (not a banner!) has been placed, as you've requested, at the very top of the main page, www.russ.ru, and, probably, will remain there until Monday. The article itself ("Adobe vs Elcomsoft: zaokeanskie Kokhi") is located at http://www.russ.ru/politics/west/20010720.html . If the members of this list feel that this article deals with the issue well, links and banner traffic will be appreciated.=20 With respect, Sergey Yu. Ilyin, politics section of Russkiy Zhurnal mailto:market@giprogor.ru ICQ#: 23262204 P.S. Yesterday's special edition of NasNet by Sergey Kuznetsov is also dedicated to these unfortunate events, at the address http://www.russ.ru/netcult/nasnet/20010719.html . On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, [koi8-r] =F3=C5=D2=C7=C5=CA =E0. =E9=CC=D8=C9=CE wrot= e: > =E7=CF=D3=D0=CF=C4=C1! >=20 > =EF=C2=C5=DD=C1=CE=CE=C1=D1 =CD=CE=CF=C0 =D7 =E2=C1=CE=CE=C5=D2=D3 =D3=D4= =C1=D4=D8=D1 =CB=C1=D3=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8=CE=CF =C1=D2=C5=D3=D4=C1 =F3=CB=CC=D1= =D2=CF=D7=C1 =CF=D0=D5=C2=CC=C9=CB=CF=D7=C1=CE=C1 =D3=C5=C7=CF=C4=CE=D1 =D7= =D0=CF=CC=C9=D4=CF=D4=C4=C5=CC=C5 =F2=D5=D3=D3=CB=CF=C7=CF =F6=D5=D2=CE=C1= =CC=C1. =F3=D3=D9=CC=CB=C1 (=CE=C5 =C2=C1=CE=CE=C5=D2!) =D7=C9=D3=C9=D4 , = =CB=C1=CB =DA=C1=CB=C1=DA=D9=D7=C1=CC=C9, =D7 =D3=C1=CD=CF=CD =D7=C5=D2=C8= =D5 =DA=C1=C7=CC=C1=D7=CE=CF=CA =D3=D4=D2=C1=CE=C9=C3=D9 www.russ.ru, =C9, = =D7=C5=D2=CF=D1=D4=CE=CF, =D0=D2=CF=D7=C9=D3=C9=D4 =C4=CF =D0=CF=CE=C5=C4= =C5=CC=D8=CE=C9=CB=C1. =F3=C1=CD=C1 =D3=D4=C1=D4=D8=D1 ("Adobe vs Elcomsoft= : =DA=C1=CF=CB=C5=C1=CE=D3=CB=C9=C5 =EB=CF=C8=C9" ) =D2=C1=D3=D0=CF=CC=CF= =D6=C5=CE=C1 =D0=CF =C1=C4=D2=C5=D3=D5 http://www.russ.ru/politics/west/200= 10720.html . =E5=D3=CC=C9 =D5=DE=C1=D3=D4=CE=C9=CB=C9 =EC=C9=D3=D4=C1 =D3= =CF=DE=D4=D5=D4, =DE=D4=CF =CF=D3=D7=C5=DD=C5=CE=C9=C5 =C4=C1=CE=CF =D0=D2= =C1=D7=C9=CC=D8=CE=CF=C5, =D3=D3=D9=CC=CB=C9 =C9 =C2=C1=CE=CE=C5=D2=CF=D4= =D2=C1=C6=C9=CB =C2=D5=C4=D5=D4 =D0=D2=C9=D7=C5=D4=D3=D4=D7=CF=D7=C1=D4=D8= =D3=D1. >=20 >=20 >=20 > =F3 =D5=D7=C1=D6=C5=CE=C9=C5=CD, =F3=C5=D2=C7=C5=CA =E0. =E9=CC=D8=C9=CE,= =D0=CF=CC=C9=D4=CF=D4=C4=C5=CC =F2=F6 > mailto:market@giprogor.ru > ICQ#: 23262204 >=20 > P.S.: =EF=D0=C9=D3=D9=D7=C1=C5=CD=D9=CD =D0=D2=C9=D3=CB=CF=D2=C2=CE=D9=CD= =D3=CF=C2=D9=D4=C9=D1=CD =D0=CF=D3=D7=D1=DD=C5=CE =D4=C1=CB=D6=C5 =D7=DE= =C5=D2=C1=DB=CE=C9=CA =D3=D0=C5=C3=D7=D9=D0=D5=D3=CB =EE=C1=D3=EE=C5=D4 =F3= =C5=D2=C7=C5=D1 =EB=D5=DA=CE=C5=C3=CF=D7=C1 =D0=CF =C1=C4=D2=C5=D3=D5 http:= //www.russ.ru/netcult/nasnet/20010719.html .=20 >=20 --=20 -alexf From mailinglists at leyton.org Fri Jul 20 07:45:46 2001 From: mailinglists at leyton.org (Richard Leyton) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] boycottadobe.co.uk registered! In-Reply-To: <20010720134824.13423.qmail@web4305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010720134824.13423.qmail@web4305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01072015454603.11898@fortuna> On Friday 20 July 2001 2:48 pm, d p wrote: > The domain: > > boycottadobe.co.uk > > has been registered! cool. Might be an idea to put up various pieces of information to give people abroad an idea on how they can help out here. I don't think there's enough critical mass in the UK to start picketting Adobe offices (With Archer going down for 4 years, the Bush visit, and Genoa conference riots starting, the news is pretty overwhelmed at the moment). Happy to be proved wrong if there are more UK (or simply non-US/Russian) people on this list? My thoughts include: - Boycotting US conferences (cf. Alan Cox) - Addresses to write to (Newspapers, Tech commentators, US Embassy?) ...? r. > > As soon as the name servers get sorted, I'll have it > redirecting to boycottadobe.com - unless anyone out > there in the UK wants to start getting some UK-related > pages sorted out? I don't have time for that, but I'm > willing to get the domain pointing wherever it needs > to... > > > dp. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Richard Leyton richard at leyton dot org http://www.leyton.org From jtjm at xenoclast.org Fri Jul 20 10:43:41 2001 From: jtjm at xenoclast.org (Julian T. J. Midgley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] press conference in the uk In-Reply-To: <3B586CB1.B31201CE@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Anton Chterenlikht wrote: > Hi, > > My name is Anton Cheterenlikht. I know Dmitry personaly for almost 10 > years. There is another guy in Cambridge who is a much better friend > of Dmitry then me. I'm very willing to help, although regret that I don't have any UK media contacts myself. I also know Igor Drokov well (the 'another guy in Cambridge' referred to above). I have a number of friends who I should be able to persuade to lend a hand, some of these may have the required contacts, if we're lucky. All the best, Julian -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Jul 20 11:09:25 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] translation [Re: Sklyarov+SMI] In-Reply-To: <004f01c11120$242ae0a0$0100a8c0@ilin> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, [koi8-r] =F3=C5=D2=C7=C5=CA =E0. =E9=CC=D8=C9=CE wrot= e: > =E7=CF=D3=D0=CF=C4=C1! >=20 > =EF=C2=C5=DD=C1=CE=CE=C1=D1 =CD=CE=CF=C0 =D7 =E2=C1=CE=CE=C5=D2=D3 =D3=D4= =C1=D4=D8=D1 =CB=C1=D3=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8=CE=CF =C1=D2=C5=D3=D4=C1 =F3=CB=CC=D1= =D2=CF=D7=C1 =CF=D0=D5=C2=CC=C9=CB=CF=D7=C1=CE=C1 =D3=C5=C7=CF=C4=CE=D1 =D7= =D0=CF=CC=C9=D4=CF=D4=C4=C5=CC=C5 =F2=D5=D3=D3=CB=CF=C7=CF =F6=D5=D2=CE=C1= =CC=C1. =F3=D3=D9=CC=CB=C1 (=CE=C5 =C2=C1=CE=CE=C5=D2!) =D7=C9=D3=C9=D4 , = =CB=C1=CB =DA=C1=CB=C1=DA=D9=D7=C1=CC=C9, =D7 =D3=C1=CD=CF=CD =D7=C5=D2=C8= =D5 =DA=C1=C7=CC=C1=D7=CE=CF=CA =D3=D4=D2=C1=CE=C9=C3=D9 www.russ.ru, =C9, = =D7=C5=D2=CF=D1=D4=CE=CF, =D0=D2=CF=D7=C9=D3=C9=D4 =C4=CF =D0=CF=CE=C5=C4= =C5=CC=D8=CE=C9=CB=C1. =F3=C1=CD=C1 =D3=D4=C1=D4=D8=D1 ("Adobe vs Elcomsoft= : =DA=C1=CF=CB=C5=C1=CE=D3=CB=C9=C5 =EB=CF=C8=C9" ) =D2=C1=D3=D0=CF=CC=CF= =D6=C5=CE=C1 =D0=CF =C1=C4=D2=C5=D3=D5 http://www.russ.ru/politics/west/200= 10720.html . =E5=D3=CC=C9 =D5=DE=C1=D3=D4=CE=C9=CB=C9 =EC=C9=D3=D4=C1 =D3= =CF=DE=D4=D5=D4, =DE=D4=CF =CF=D3=D7=C5=DD=C5=CE=C9=C5 =C4=C1=CE=CF =D0=D2= =C1=D7=C9=CC=D8=CE=CF=C5, =D3=D3=D9=CC=CB=C9 =C9 =C2=C1=CE=CE=C5=D2=CF=D4= =D2=C1=C6=C9=CB =C2=D5=C4=D5=D4 =D0=D2=C9=D7=C5=D4=D3=D4=D7=CF=D7=C1=D4=D8= =D3=D1. >=20 >=20 >=20 > =F3 =D5=D7=C1=D6=C5=CE=C9=C5=CD, =F3=C5=D2=C7=C5=CA =E0. =E9=CC=D8=C9=CE,= =D0=CF=CC=C9=D4=CF=D4=C4=C5=CC =F2=F6 > mailto:market@giprogor.ru > ICQ#: 23262204 >=20 > P.S.: =EF=D0=C9=D3=D9=D7=C1=C5=CD=D9=CD =D0=D2=C9=D3=CB=CF=D2=C2=CE=D9=CD= =D3=CF=C2=D9=D4=C9=D1=CD =D0=CF=D3=D7=D1=DD=C5=CE =D4=C1=CB=D6=C5 =D7=DE= =C5=D2=C1=DB=CE=C9=CA =D3=D0=C5=C3=D7=D9=D0=D5=D3=CB =EE=C1=D3=EE=C5=D4 =F3= =C5=D2=C7=C5=D1 =EB=D5=DA=CE=C5=C3=CF=D7=C1 =D0=CF =C1=C4=D2=C5=D3=D5 http:= //www.russ.ru/netcult/nasnet/20010719.html .=20 >=20 --=20 -alexf From marc at perkel.com Fri Jul 20 08:22:25 2001 From: marc at perkel.com (Marc Perkel) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] OSCON San Diego action References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720072119.03214e80@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720074757.0320b7a0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <3B584CB1.329CA626@perkel.com> Since Kevin and I are going to be there, I can say that I would be available to be part of the panel. Perhaps we should also maybe throw together a one page handout on the issue --- maybe something that can be added to the material distributed to attendees. Here's how I see this. The government is sending a message to the open source community that they are willing to arrest and jail programmers for writing tools -- as opposed to prosecuting those who use the tools illegally. It's equivelent to arresting an assembly line worker at a hammer plant because the hammer can be used to build an illegal structure. Do we want a world where programmers have to wonder if they are going to be hauled off to jail. Under these standards --- John Gillmore would certianly be a criminal for cracking DES. I am also offended over the jurisdictional issue. We in America are arresting a Russian citizen for conduct that occurred in his own country that was lawful in Russia. Who are we to declare that our laws apply to the entire planet and that we have the right to arrest an punish people who are not citizens of our country? One could make an argument that if there were to be an arrest then it would be the person directly involved with distribution the (illegal) program in America in violation of American law. But this is a programmer who had nothing to do with the distribution of this product here. If we were to apply the "shoe on the other foot" test --- suppose an american programmer were arrested in Saudi Arabia for writing a JPEG viewer that allowed Saudi men to view naked women (naked meaning no veil on face). We would be ready to go to war over the issue. Is every programmer and every webmaster who puts anything on the internet to be subject to prosecution for violating any law anywhere on the planet? I think not --- and I think that since this is a personal attack against the open source community that it is our duty as open source programmers (as you know --- I am also a programmer) to assert to the United States that we will not accept this and we should draw a line in the sand and tell the United States to back down. Well --- I'm ranting now. --- My point --- I support action at OSCON - I will be there - how can I be of service? Bob La Quey wrote: > This cannot be allowed to stand. We definitely want to put together > an action. The only question in my mind is what/when, etc. > > I suggest that OSCON should throw together an immediate ad hoc panel > on this issue. We will probably also want to organize efforts separately > from the OSCON, which after all has an agenda of its own. > > As a minimum we want to find an effective way to leverage this large > gathering of programmers and to help Dmitry and blast the DMCA. > > Just think what the American public would be saying if this was a > young American programmer with a wife and two children being held > by the KGB in Moscow. Shame on the USA. Shame on Adobe. > > At 07:35 AM 7/20/01 -0700, Will Doherty wrote: > >Hey Bob, > > > >I have cc'ed the two EFF people I know of who are attending > >OSC... if you all can have a strategy session on this idea, > >EFF is interested in participating. > > > >Free Dmitry, > > > >Will Doherty > >Online Activist / Media Relations > >Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > >Web http://www.eff.org > > > >Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > >------- > > > >At 07:25 AM 7/20/2001 -0700, Bob La Quey wrote: > >>The Open Source Convention will be meeting in San Diego > >>this next week JUly 23-27. Since this is perhaps the largest > >>single gathering of Free/Open Source software people anywhere > >>we should certainly plan some action in response to the > >>Sklyarov Affair. > >> > >>Thoughts? > >> > >> > >>Bob La Quey Free Dmitry http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>free-sklyarov mailing list > >>free-sklyarov@zork.net > >>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > Bob La Quey From ausage at smoke-and-mirrors.net Fri Jul 20 10:15:35 2001 From: ausage at smoke-and-mirrors.net (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dimitry Skyarov Message-ID: <01072013153504.18608@frankie> I am writing to inform you that as of today I have banned the purchase of Adobe products in my company. Since this is a web development house, my technical staff are now reviewing replacement products. Adobe will always be infamous in my mind as the company that put "This book may not be read aloud" into the licensing conditions for a public domain text. The prosecution of a Russian programmer, for an act that is perfectly legal in any country outside of the United States, has lead me to decide that your business ethics are outside the bounds of those with whom I wish to do business. -- Andrew Lawrence President, Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 From kstein at med.cornell.edu Fri Jul 20 07:26:56 2001 From: kstein at med.cornell.edu (Kenneth M. Stein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boston Globe Message-ID: <001201c11128$083946e0$5eebfb8c@med.cornell.edu> There is a well written (except for the ubiquitous "Hacker" in the headline) article by Hiawatha Bray on the Front Page of today's Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/201/business/Hacker_s_arrest_decried%2b.s html). Among other things, the article quotes Rick Boucher, a Democratic Congressman from Virginia: "But at least one member of Congress doesn't think Sklyarov's actions should be illegal. ''I think there's a growing sense that the legislation is overly broad,'' said Representative Rick Boucher, a Virginia Democrat. He says there are legitimate reasons why an electronic book owner might wish to copy all or part of the text - to make a backup copy, or to include an excerpt in some other document. This concept, called ''fair use,'' is well established in copyright law. Boucher fears the DMCA essentially eliminates fair use, by enabling publishers to lock up their materials so completely that consumers won't be able to make legitimate copies." - Ken From fuck-usa-and-fbi at sels.com Fri Jul 20 10:25:51 2001 From: fuck-usa-and-fbi at sels.com (fuck-usa-and-fbi@sels.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Phone Information Europe Message-ID: <48626.213.168.86.19.995649951.squirrel@www.sels.com> Hi out there, Here the information I have, I contacted the German Spokeswoman. we at http://koeln.ccc.de (german) think about an demo in Munic...;) German stuff ============ 0180 230 4316 (adobe germany (voice system exploitable ?) 040 3986980 (spokeswomen, agency, not adobe !!, nice spokeswomen !) 00 44-131-451 68 84 (every stuff is recorded, german hotline, uk) Adobe Systems GmbH Ohmstr. 1 85716 Unterschlei?heim Fon (089) 31705-0 Fax (089) 31705-705 -- MfG / regards Stefan Sels --- Windows is the AOL of operating systems Adobe is not a nice company : http://www.boycottadobe.com/ GPG/PGP key http://stefan.sels.com/pgp.asc From inkblot at geocities.com Fri Jul 20 11:07:02 2001 From: inkblot at geocities.com (Nate Riffe) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [UFO Chicago] Chicago Protest Needs People! In-Reply-To: <20010720125845.G284@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Peter A. Peterson II wrote: > Hey all, > > Nate Riffe is going to be the contact man for a > Chicago protest on Monday from 11 to 1. If you are interested or live in > the area, please contact him and consider coming downtown and > protesting. Details are forthcoming. > > pedro > That should be . -Nate -- ------------------------------------------------((\))<---------------------- Nate Riffe Help Dmitry Sklyarov find freedom in the so- inkblot@geocities.com called "Land of the Free." http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org Fri Jul 20 10:46:43 2001 From: free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org (free-sklyarov@effector.xenoclast.org) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] press conference in the uk Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Anton Chterenlikht wrote: > Hi, > > My name is Anton Cheterenlikht. I know Dmitry personaly for almost 10 > years. There is another guy in Cambridge who is a much better friend > of Dmitry then me. I'm very willing to help, although regret that I don't have any UK media contacts myself. I also know Igor Drokov well (the 'another guy in Cambridge' referred to above). I have a number of friends who I should be able to persuade to lend a hand, some of these may have the required contacts, if we're lucky. All the best, Julian -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F From mosengc at qwest.net Fri Jul 20 10:33:42 2001 From: mosengc at qwest.net (Chris Moseng) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:24 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [free-sklyarov] Minneapolis/St. Paul] Message-ID: <3B586B76.36BAA9A3@qwest.net> This took place off-list: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Minneapolis/St. Paul Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:12:27 -0500 From: Chris Moseng To: Will Doherty Agreed. Will Doherty wrote: > Can we just decide for the St Paul location on Monday, 11am -1pm? > -- mosengc@qwest.net I use PGP 6.5.3 -- http://www.underwhelm.org/pgp At 11:48 AM 7/20/2001 -0500, Chris Moseng wrote: >I will gladly be the contact person for MSP. > >I would love to get in Adobe's face, but for practical purposes I think >a downtown location would be better. Transit is better and publicity is >more likely. > >There are two federal buildings, one in St. Paul (316 N Robert St.) and >one in Minneapolis (300 S 4th St.). They are both equally serviced by >transit and media. If I had to pick one, I would choose St. Paul because >it houses both the US Attorney and the FBI. > >11-1 is fine. > >I work at Kinko's, so I can hook people up with materials if they >request. :) > >Please have protest-related emails sent to freedima@underwhelm.org >Please direct protest-related phone calls to 651-222-4722 >My name is Chris >-- >mosengc@qwest.net >I use PGP 6.5.3 -- http://www.underwhelm.org/pgp From johan at newsmagic.com Fri Jul 20 16:04:31 2001 From: johan at newsmagic.com (Jon) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Free=?iso-8859-1?Q?=2DSklyarov=20shirts=20available=20at=20copyleft=21?= Message-ID: <200107202304.f6KN4Us14867@newsmagic.com> http://www.copyleft.net/item.phtml?dynamic=1&referer=%2Fthumbs.phtml%3Fcategory_id%3D1&page=product_1269_front.phtml A portion of the cost is donated to the EFF! -Jon From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Jul 20 11:18:22 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] BoycottAdobe logo [was Re: Slogan/Propaganda] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Seth Johnson wrote: > I can't facilitate (or enable, for that matter) the logo discussion right > now. Can someone try to see whether anything is going to come of the > discussion that's starting? I can't speak up much for a while. Well, I fired up Gobe Productive <--- NOT ADOBE PHOTOSHOP and will get to work on some ideas. Suggestions are appreciated! -S From free-sklyarov at happycool.com Fri Jul 20 11:14:36 2001 From: free-sklyarov at happycool.com (Victor Piterbarg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Southern California? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720105145.02bf1578@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Don't you know how laid back we are here in LA?? Protest...I have trouble getting people together to go play beach volleyball. Seriously though, the protests I've seen in front of the Federal Building in West LA, have been small and and seemed impotent. See you in SJ. -Victor -----Original Message----- From: Will Doherty [mailto:wild@eff.org] Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 10:52 AM To: Victor Piterbarg; jason@d13.com Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Southern California? We encourage folks in LA to stay in LA and protest there. Of course, if you really feel moved to come to SJ, you are welcome. :-) Will At 10:37 AM 7/20/2001 -0700, Victor Piterbarg wrote: >I'm from LA, and I'm going up to SJ with a couple of people, for the main >protest. Grab some friends and drive to SJ, it's close enough. > >-Victor > >-----Original Message----- >From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net >[mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of jason@d13.com >Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:34 AM >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Southern California? > > >Anybody on this list in Southern California? I think a protest is in >order. > >At one time there was a small adobe office in Irvine, > > http://www.educause.edu/memdir/corp-profiles/30880.html > >The Federal building in West LA or the Federal Court in downtown LA >would also be good places to show support for Dmitri. > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From neale at woozle.org Fri Jul 20 11:19:03 2001 From: neale at woozle.org (Neale Pickett) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: <87ofqfzfuq.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720120858.02c5c300@pop.nyu.edu> <87ofqfzfuq.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: Klepht writes: >>>>>> "JB" == Jon Bober writes: JB> I am not a hard-core protester, and I am not ready to go JB> marching up and down streets by myself. > That's too bad. > Just to get this in focus: I don't think many of us =are= "hardcore > protesters." We're ALL flying by the seat of our pants. In my > experience, most of the people in the Bay Area are just Linux geeks > and freedom lovers. We're making this go off because we want Dmitry to > be free. Yeah, I second that sentiment! I've never even *been* to a protest before (except when I accidentally popped my head up from the bus tunnel during some WTO2 stuff), and now I'm organizing the event in Seattle! Just provide people with a time and location, and make sure you let the Police know what you're doing. From declan at well.com Fri Jul 20 11:07:02 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Denmark bows to U.S., enacts anti-piracy search and seizure law Message-ID: <20010720140701.B26118@cluebot.com> Perhaps relevant... ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- From: Declan McCullagh Subject: FC: Denmark bows to U.S., enacts anti-piracy search and seizure law To: politech@politechbot.com Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 14:03:47 -0400 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ http://www.cluebot.com/article.pl?sid=01/06/26/042210 Denmark Enacts Anti-Piracy Search and Seizure Law posted by vergil on Friday July 20, @10:51AM from the battering-ram-of-the-bsa dept. If you needed further proof of the U.S. software industry's global muscle, keep reading. The U.S. government, acting on behalf of American firms, has successfully pressured Denmark to change its laws. A document unearthed by Cluebot.com describes how the new law allows physical searches for supposed copyright infringements "without prior notification." ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- End forwarded message ----- From declan at well.com Fri Jul 20 11:13:46 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chants In-Reply-To: ; from tneu@visi.com on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 01:06:09PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010720141346.A26354@cluebot.com> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 01:06:09PM -0500, Tim Neu wrote: > > Here's something anyone can understand: > > Keep Russian laws in Russia, US laws in USA So you oppose U.S. laws that can be used to prosecute Americans who go on underage sex tours of southeast Asia? Or Germany's laws that can be used to convict a U.S. holocaust revisionist if he's stupid enough to set foot in Germany? (Or, as we've seen, even other European countries.) -Declan From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Jul 20 11:23:35 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chants In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Tim Neu wrote: > Here's something anyone can understand: > Keep Russian laws in Russia, US laws in USA Maybe something that drives home the fact that people in Russia seem to have freer speech than we have in the US, thx to DMCA. But how to fit that into a chant? Or a sign? =S [BTW, Adobe's slogan is "everywhere you look." That just has Big Brother written all over it.] From LGORKIN at mobius.com Fri Jul 20 11:24:09 2001 From: LGORKIN at mobius.com (Leonid Gorkin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? Message-ID: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F80@ryentes1.mobius.com> Good idea. I am trying to find a number I can call to find out about the permit. We need to decide on location right now, so that EFF can add it to their web site. --Leonid -----Original Message----- From: Carlos Macedo Gomes [mailto:gomes@navigo.com] Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:18 PM To: Jon Bober; Leonid Gorkin Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? Jon and Leonid, I believe we do have to get a permit to protest in NYC- at least officially. I'll try to contact a few groups that may have a better understanding of the legal side and will update ASAP. If we're shooting for Monday that doesn't give us much time to get the paper work together if it's needed. The location below sounds good to me. We should put out a larger call for support online (nylug.org, lxny.org, Perl Mongers, local EFF chapters, etc). I've sent an email to the secretary at lxny.org but don't have any direct contact w/ the other groups. So right now we have 3 in NYC. 2's company and 3's a crowd? It's at least enough to cover an intersection handing out flyers. I'm game to meet sometime tomorrow to check heads and work out a game plan. I suggest the Barnes and Nobles near Union Square but I'm flexible. regards, C.G. -- gomes@navigo.com Carlos Macedo Gomes _sic itur ad astra_ 1/1; ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Bober" To: Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 1:45 PM Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? > this might be a good location - a few blocks from times square, by bryant > park, and on 5th ave. > At 01:37 PM 7/20/01 -0400, you wrote: > >alright, i am willing to be in on this. > > > >a search on www.superpages.com yields: > > > >Adobe Systems Inc > >8 West 40th Street, New York, NY 10018 > >(212) 221-6737 > > > >looks like an adobe building. other than that, i don't have much > >information, but i am willing to help, though i would also need help. > > > > > > > >At 01:22 PM 7/20/01 -0400, you wrote: > >>I can be a contact person if we try to organize a protest. I think we need > >>to do it on Monday, together with the protests in other cities. I cannot > >>find Adobe office in New Yor, do anybody know if they are here? Do we need > >>to file a permit with the mayors office or police department? I have no > >>experience organizing this kind of events, so I would appreciate any help. > >> > >>Regards, > >>Leonid > >> > >>lgorkin@excite.com > >>phone: 212 794 1565 > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Klepht [mailto:klepht@eleutheria.org] > >>Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 1:10 PM > >>To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > >>Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? > >> > >> > >> >>>>> "JB" == Jon Bober writes: > >> > >> JB> I am not a hard-core protester, and I am not ready to go > >> JB> marching up and down streets by myself. > >> > >>That's too bad. > >> > >>Just to get this in focus: I don't think many of us =are= "hardcore > >>protesters." We're ALL flying by the seat of our pants. In my > >>experience, most of the people in the Bay Area are just Linux geeks > >>and freedom lovers. We're making this go off because we want Dmitry to > >>be free. > >> > >>If you can, try synching up with NY-LUG, the New York Linux Users > >>Group. > >> > >> http://www.nylug.org/ > >> > >>They may be willing to step up to the plate. > >> > >>~Klepht > >> > >>-- > >>klepht@eleutheria.org > >>http://www.eleutheria.org/ > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>free-sklyarov mailing list > >>free-sklyarov@zork.net > >>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>free-sklyarov mailing list > >>free-sklyarov@zork.net > >>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From JMarll at HALW.com Fri Jul 20 11:28:50 2001 From: JMarll at HALW.com (Marll, Joseph (HAL)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] help Message-ID: <5B1CA79690FED311A27300508B08E7F90179D74E@halwexchange.hq.halw.com> unsubscribe -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net] Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 11:17 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: free-sklyarov digest, Vol 1 #35 - 15 msgs Send free-sklyarov mailing list submissions to free-sklyarov@zork.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to free-sklyarov-request@zork.net You can reach the person managing the list at free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of free-sklyarov digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Adobe Director Robert Sedgewick contact info (James S. Tyre) 2. Re: any New York action planned? (Klepht) 3. Chicago Protest Needs People! (Peter A. Peterson II) 4. Re: Slogan/Propaganda (Seth Johnson) 5. Chants (Tim Neu) 6. Re: any New York action planned? (Klepht) 7. Re: any New York action planned? (Jay Sulzberger) 8. Legality of Sklyarov's arrest and Dallas/Houston protest? (Ed Carp) 9. Re: Southern California (Jey Kottalam) 10. Re: any New York action planned? (Carlos Macedo Gomes) 11. translation [Re: Sklyarov+SMI] (Alex Fabrikant) 12. Boston Globe (Kenneth M. Stein) 13. Re: OSCON San Diego action (Marc Perkel) 14. Re: boycottadobe.co.uk registered! (Richard Leyton) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:50:47 -0700 To: "Kevin" , From: "James S. Tyre" Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Director Robert Sedgewick contact info Done. (I'm one of the EFF affiliated lawyers representing Ed and the others in their case.) At 10:41 AM 07/20/2001 -0700, Kevin wrote: >This is interesting. Isn't Edward Felten also a professor with the >Department of Computer Science at Princeton? > >Perhaps someone at EFF who knows Prof. Felten could talk to him, see if it >could approach Prof. Sedgewick about this. > >Kevin > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Adobe Demonstrator" >To: >Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:40 AM >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Director Robert Sedgewick contact info > > > > On the Adobe Board of Directors, our most likely supporter will > > probably be Robert Sedgewick, a Computer Science Professor at > > Princeton University. He is listed in their directory: > > > > Robert Sedgewick > > Department of Computer Science > > Princeton University > > Princeton, NJ 08544 > > email: rs@cs.Princeton.EDU > > telephone: 609-258-4345 > > homepage: http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~rs/ > > > > Free Sklyarov! -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net --__--__-- Message: 2 To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? From: Klepht Organization: Eleutheria Date: 20 Jul 2001 10:57:01 -0700 >>>>> "LG" == Leonid Gorkin writes: LG> I can be a contact person if we try to organize a protest. I LG> think we need to do it on Monday, together with the protests LG> in other cities. I cannot find Adobe office in New Yor, do LG> anybody know if they are here? Do we need to file a permit LG> with the mayors office or police department? I have no LG> experience organizing this kind of events, so I would LG> appreciate any help. Leonid, You can do this! Go go go! We need you in New York! First thing is: pick that spot mentioned (Adobe) and put your name up as the contact. Get that to EFF RIGHT AWAY, because they need it. 1) Pick a time, place, and agenda. I think you've got this, so get it announced! 2) ANNOUNCE it as far as you can. Getting it out TODAY, RIGHT NOW is a good thing, because it's last day people are going to be looking at the Web or email for a while. I bet if you get it out today, people can put it up on EFF in a few hours. 3) When you announce, try and do it in an authoritative tone of voice. Not, "if people will come, I will." Say it like, "THIS WILL HAPPEN. This event is GOING OFF." You have to face the fact that you just may end up standing in the rain, by yourself, in your underwear, crying and handing out leaflets. It's like "Ghost Dog" -- once you face that, you can kick ass. It's the way of the Event Samurai! There have been at least three inquiries on the list today, so you won't be alone! 4) Give people stuff to bring and do, and a contact email/# to get to you. 5) Call the cops and tell them what's up. This will keep you from having a problem on the event day. For some reason, they usually don't care, but if someone complains they can sweep you along for not having notified them. Go figure. 6) Hit as many announcement venues as you can. Try Linux Users' Groups or other computer users' groups, hipster lists (what's that thing -- the Rhizome list?), Web lists, etc. Do they have a Craig's List in NYC? Try the Craig's List, too. 7) Before the event, make these things: a whole bunch of copies of a flier -- I think Tabinda Khan is working on one, which should be really good. Also, make at least two picket signs. You can get poster board at Staples or Office Depot for like 1.39 for 10 sheets. PERFECT. Make a couple, bring the rest of the paper for other people to make signs. (Oh, and some markers!). Also, bring a clipboard. I dunno why, but having a clipboard makes you look like you've got your shit together. 8) Try and synch up with the EFF to get press there. They can probably swing it. 9) At the event: hold up your sign. Pass out flyers. Towards the middle of the time period, give a little speech about Dmitry, if you feel like. Rally the troops. And then let them drift away. That's it! It's that easy! You're totally able to pull it off, man! You've GOT to make this happen! We really NEED someone in NYC! ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:58:45 -0500 From: "Peter A. Peterson II" To: free-sklyarov@zork.net, luni@tastytronic.net, ufo@tastytronic.net free-sklyarov@zork.net, luni@tastytronic.net, ufo@tastytronic.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Protest Needs People! Hey all, Nate Riffe is going to be the contact man for a Chicago protest on Monday from 11 to 1. If you are interested or live in the area, please contact him and consider coming downtown and protesting. Details are forthcoming. pedro -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter A. Peterson II, CEO Users of Free Operating Systems, Chicago USA http://ufo.chicago.il.us -- Free Software Rules -- Proprietary Drools! --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:51:50 -0400 From: "Seth Johnson" To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda Reply-To: seth.johnson@realmeasures.dyndns.org I can't facilitate (or enable, for that matter) the logo discussion right now. Can someone try to see whether anything is going to come of the discussion that's starting? I can't speak up much for a while. Seth Johnson --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:06:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim Neu To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chants Here's something anyone can understand: Keep Russian laws in Russia, US laws in USA =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- What the president of the Motion Picture Association of America says about taking away your constitutional rights: "I'm rather jubilant now. What Judge Kaplan did was blow away every one of these brittle and fragile rebuttals. He threw out fair use; he threw out reverse engineering; he threw out linking." - Jack Valenti, president of the Motion Picture Association of America. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ______ _ __ "If you don't have the freedom to use what you / ' ) ) own - then you do not own anything." / o ______ / / _ . . No apologies to Jack Valenti or the MPAA / <_/ / / < / (_ From: Klepht Organization: Eleutheria Date: 20 Jul 2001 11:06:16 -0700 >>>>> "K" == Klepht writes: K> Leonid, You can do this! Go go go! We need you in New York! Haw! I've sent off-list encouragment messages like this to many of you. I accidentally sent this one to the list. Whoops! I'm totally busted. B-) ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 14:11:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Jay Sulzberger To: Jon Bober Cc: , Jay Sulzberger Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Jon Bober wrote: > I believe that I am the only person on this list that has expressed > interest in something in NYC. That was last night just before I went > to sleep at around 1:30 or so. I woke up this morning to find that > people had tried to jump on me to organize something. As could be > inferred from the tone of that email, I am not ready to organize > something all alone, but I would be willing to participate. I am not > a hard-core protester, and I am not ready to go marching up and down > streets by myself. > > I'll see if anyone else steps up. I'm not ready to be the contact on this. I'll be at the protest on Monday in front of the New York offices of Adobe, right across the street from the New York Public Library. Folk on nylug-talk are discussing the protest. We'll need placards, and perhaps we should get a permit. http://www.nylug.org oo--JS. --__--__-- Message: 8 Reply-To: From: "Ed Carp" To: Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:14:37 -0500 charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [free-sklyarov] Legality of Sklyarov's arrest and Dallas/Houston protest? It is my opinion that not only is Sklyarov being held unlawfully (because the original complaint didn't specify exactly *how* Sklyarov violated the DMCA), but the DMCA doesn't apply to him, because (1) encryption circumvention isn't a crime in Russia, and (2) he hasn't committed a crime on US soil! The presumption in the complaint seems to be that since (A) encryption circumvention is a crime, (B) Sklyarov violated the DMCA in that respect (regardless of where he was when he did it), and (C) Sklyarov was in the US at some point, it naturally follows that (D) Sklyarov has violated US law and can be arrested. Uh, no, sorry, go back to law school - and this time, don't sleep through the constitutional law class! In the original complaint (from http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010707_complaint.html): I, the undersigned complainant being duly sworn state the following is true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. On or about June 26, 2001 in Santa Clara county, in the Northern District of California defendant(s) did, (Track Statutory Language of Offense) import, offer to the public, provide, and otherwise traffic in a software product that is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof, and aid and abet such conduct. in violation of Title 17 United States Code, Section(s) 1201(b)(1)(A) and 18 U.S.C. Sec.2 Oh, really? Hmmm...on reading the complaint, I can find no supporting documentation or evidence that says Sklyarov did "import, offer to the public, provide, and otherwise traffic" in the US! Please note the use of the word "and". If the information that the arrest warrant is based on is invalid, the arrest warrant itself is invalid on its face, and Sklyarov should be freed immediately. If I were his attorney, I'd be down filing a writ of habeas corpus right now. On a related note, anyone know if a protest is being organized in either Dallas or Houston for Monday? -- Ed Carp, N7EKG - erc@pobox.com - 214/986-5870 (cell phone) - http://www.pobox.com/~erc Is your web site data driven? Are you swamped with work managing, updating, and deploying that data on to your web site? You need Escapade! Check us out at http://www.squishedmosquito.com/cgi-bin/esp?PAGE=esp_intro.html --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Jey Kottalam" To: Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:11:52 -0700 charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Southern California Or come give us a hand in San Diego.. we're closer! =D I'm contacting the local LUGs in San Diego to see if we can organize a protest here. I also noticed a Bob La Quey on this list -- I believe he's associated with the KPLUG, is he coordinating anything with the KPLUG? -Jey Kottalam "My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right." -- /usr/bin/fortune > We encourage folks in LA to stay in LA and protest there. > > Of course, if you really feel moved to come to SJ, you > are welcome. :-) > > Will > > At 10:37 AM 7/20/2001 -0700, Victor Piterbarg wrote: > >I'm from LA, and I'm going up to SJ with a couple of people, for the main > >protest. Grab some friends and drive to SJ, it's close enough. > > > >-Victor > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > >[mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of jason@d13.com > >Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:34 AM > >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Southern California? > > > > > >Anybody on this list in Southern California? I think a protest is in > >order. > > > >At one time there was a small adobe office in Irvine, > > > > http://www.educause.edu/memdir/corp-profiles/30880.html > > > >The Federal building in West LA or the Federal Court in downtown LA > >would also be good places to show support for Dmitri. > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov --__--__-- Message: 10 Reply-To: "Carlos Macedo Gomes" From: "Carlos Macedo Gomes" To: "Jon Bober" , "Leonid Gorkin" Cc: Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 14:17:30 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Jon and Leonid, I believe we do have to get a permit to protest in NYC- at least officially. I'll try to contact a few groups that may have a better understanding of the legal side and will update ASAP. If we're shooting for Monday that doesn't give us much time to get the paper work together if it's needed. The location below sounds good to me. We should put out a larger call for support online (nylug.org, lxny.org, Perl Mongers, local EFF chapters, etc). I've sent an email to the secretary at lxny.org but don't have any direct contact w/ the other groups. So right now we have 3 in NYC. 2's company and 3's a crowd? It's at least enough to cover an intersection handing out flyers. I'm game to meet sometime tomorrow to check heads and work out a game plan. I suggest the Barnes and Nobles near Union Square but I'm flexible. regards, C.G. -- gomes@navigo.com Carlos Macedo Gomes _sic itur ad astra_ 1/1; ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Bober" To: Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 1:45 PM Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? > this might be a good location - a few blocks from times square, by bryant > park, and on 5th ave. > At 01:37 PM 7/20/01 -0400, you wrote: > >alright, i am willing to be in on this. > > > >a search on www.superpages.com yields: > > > >Adobe Systems Inc > >8 West 40th Street, New York, NY 10018 > >(212) 221-6737 > > > >looks like an adobe building. other than that, i don't have much > >information, but i am willing to help, though i would also need help. > > > > > > > >At 01:22 PM 7/20/01 -0400, you wrote: > >>I can be a contact person if we try to organize a protest. I think we need > >>to do it on Monday, together with the protests in other cities. I cannot > >>find Adobe office in New Yor, do anybody know if they are here? Do we need > >>to file a permit with the mayors office or police department? I have no > >>experience organizing this kind of events, so I would appreciate any help. > >> > >>Regards, > >>Leonid > >> > >>lgorkin@excite.com > >>phone: 212 794 1565 > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Klepht [mailto:klepht@eleutheria.org] > >>Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 1:10 PM > >>To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > >>Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? > >> > >> > >> >>>>> "JB" == Jon Bober writes: > >> > >> JB> I am not a hard-core protester, and I am not ready to go > >> JB> marching up and down streets by myself. > >> > >>That's too bad. > >> > >>Just to get this in focus: I don't think many of us =are= "hardcore > >>protesters." We're ALL flying by the seat of our pants. In my > >>experience, most of the people in the Bay Area are just Linux geeks > >>and freedom lovers. We're making this go off because we want Dmitry to > >>be free. > >> > >>If you can, try synching up with NY-LUG, the New York Linux Users > >>Group. > >> > >> http://www.nylug.org/ > >> > >>They may be willing to step up to the plate. > >> > >>~Klepht > >> > >>-- > >>klepht@eleutheria.org > >>http://www.eleutheria.org/ > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>free-sklyarov mailing list > >>free-sklyarov@zork.net > >>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>free-sklyarov mailing list > >>free-sklyarov@zork.net > >>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:10:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Fabrikant To: =?koi8-r?B?88XSx8XKICDgLiDpzNjJzg==?= cc: sklyarov@ezhe.ru, free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] translation [Re: Sklyarov+SMI] Below is a translation of the message sent by Sergey Yu. Ilyin to this list at 20 Jul 2001 17:30:41 +0400 in Russian: Gentlemen! The article in Banners, as I promised, regarding Sklyarov's arrest has been published today in the "politics" section of Russkiy Zhurnal (The Russian Journal). A link (not a banner!) has been placed, as you've requested, at the very top of the main page, www.russ.ru, and, probably, will remain there until Monday. The article itself ("Adobe vs Elcomsoft: zaokeanskie Kokhi") is located at http://www.russ.ru/politics/west/20010720.html . If the members of this list feel that this article deals with the issue well, links and banner traffic will be appreciated.=20 With respect, Sergey Yu. Ilyin, politics section of Russkiy Zhurnal mailto:market@giprogor.ru ICQ#: 23262204 P.S. Yesterday's special edition of NasNet by Sergey Kuznetsov is also dedicated to these unfortunate events, at the address http://www.russ.ru/netcult/nasnet/20010719.html . On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, [koi8-r] =F3=C5=D2=C7=C5=CA =E0. =E9=CC=D8=C9=CE wrot= e: > =E7=CF=D3=D0=CF=C4=C1! >=20 > =EF=C2=C5=DD=C1=CE=CE=C1=D1 =CD=CE=CF=C0 =D7 =E2=C1=CE=CE=C5=D2=D3 =D3=D4= =C1=D4=D8=D1 =CB=C1=D3=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8=CE=CF =C1=D2=C5=D3=D4=C1 =F3=CB=CC=D1= =D2=CF=D7=C1 =CF=D0=D5=C2=CC=C9=CB=CF=D7=C1=CE=C1 =D3=C5=C7=CF=C4=CE=D1 =D7= =D0=CF=CC=C9=D4=CF=D4=C4=C5=CC=C5 =F2=D5=D3=D3=CB=CF=C7=CF =F6=D5=D2=CE=C1= =CC=C1. =F3=D3=D9=CC=CB=C1 (=CE=C5 =C2=C1=CE=CE=C5=D2!) =D7=C9=D3=C9=D4 , = =CB=C1=CB =DA=C1=CB=C1=DA=D9=D7=C1=CC=C9, =D7 =D3=C1=CD=CF=CD =D7=C5=D2=C8= =D5 =DA=C1=C7=CC=C1=D7=CE=CF=CA =D3=D4=D2=C1=CE=C9=C3=D9 www.russ.ru, =C9, = =D7=C5=D2=CF=D1=D4=CE=CF, =D0=D2=CF=D7=C9=D3=C9=D4 =C4=CF =D0=CF=CE=C5=C4= =C5=CC=D8=CE=C9=CB=C1. =F3=C1=CD=C1 =D3=D4=C1=D4=D8=D1 ("Adobe vs Elcomsoft= : =DA=C1=CF=CB=C5=C1=CE=D3=CB=C9=C5 =EB=CF=C8=C9" ) =D2=C1=D3=D0=CF=CC=CF= =D6=C5=CE=C1 =D0=CF =C1=C4=D2=C5=D3=D5 http://www.russ.ru/politics/west/200= 10720.html . =E5=D3=CC=C9 =D5=DE=C1=D3=D4=CE=C9=CB=C9 =EC=C9=D3=D4=C1 =D3= =CF=DE=D4=D5=D4, =DE=D4=CF =CF=D3=D7=C5=DD=C5=CE=C9=C5 =C4=C1=CE=CF =D0=D2= =C1=D7=C9=CC=D8=CE=CF=C5, =D3=D3=D9=CC=CB=C9 =C9 =C2=C1=CE=CE=C5=D2=CF=D4= =D2=C1=C6=C9=CB =C2=D5=C4=D5=D4 =D0=D2=C9=D7=C5=D4=D3=D4=D7=CF=D7=C1=D4=D8= =D3=D1. >=20 >=20 >=20 > =F3 =D5=D7=C1=D6=C5=CE=C9=C5=CD, =F3=C5=D2=C7=C5=CA =E0. =E9=CC=D8=C9=CE,= =D0=CF=CC=C9=D4=CF=D4=C4=C5=CC =F2=F6 > mailto:market@giprogor.ru > ICQ#: 23262204 >=20 > P.S.: =EF=D0=C9=D3=D9=D7=C1=C5=CD=D9=CD =D0=D2=C9=D3=CB=CF=D2=C2=CE=D9=CD= =D3=CF=C2=D9=D4=C9=D1=CD =D0=CF=D3=D7=D1=DD=C5=CE =D4=C1=CB=D6=C5 =D7=DE= =C5=D2=C1=DB=CE=C9=CA =D3=D0=C5=C3=D7=D9=D0=D5=D3=CB =EE=C1=D3=EE=C5=D4 =F3= =C5=D2=C7=C5=D1 =EB=D5=DA=CE=C5=C3=CF=D7=C1 =D0=CF =C1=C4=D2=C5=D3=D5 http:= //www.russ.ru/netcult/nasnet/20010719.html .=20 >=20 --=20 -alexf --__--__-- Message: 12 Reply-To: From: "Kenneth M. Stein" To: Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:26:56 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boston Globe There is a well written (except for the ubiquitous "Hacker" in the headline) article by Hiawatha Bray on the Front Page of today's Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/201/business/Hacker_s_arrest_decried%2b.s html). Among other things, the article quotes Rick Boucher, a Democratic Congressman from Virginia: "But at least one member of Congress doesn't think Sklyarov's actions should be illegal. ''I think there's a growing sense that the legislation is overly broad,'' said Representative Rick Boucher, a Virginia Democrat. He says there are legitimate reasons why an electronic book owner might wish to copy all or part of the text - to make a backup copy, or to include an excerpt in some other document. This concept, called ''fair use,'' is well established in copyright law. Boucher fears the DMCA essentially eliminates fair use, by enabling publishers to lock up their materials so completely that consumers won't be able to make legitimate copies." - Ken --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 08:22:25 -0700 From: Marc Perkel To: Bob La Quey CC: Will Doherty , free-sklyarov@zork.net, "tim O'Reilly" , andy Oram , mcclelland@mail.glaad.org, kevin@eff.org, Urivan Saaib , marc@eff.org Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] OSCON San Diego action Since Kevin and I are going to be there, I can say that I would be available to be part of the panel. Perhaps we should also maybe throw together a one page handout on the issue --- maybe something that can be added to the material distributed to attendees. Here's how I see this. The government is sending a message to the open source community that they are willing to arrest and jail programmers for writing tools -- as opposed to prosecuting those who use the tools illegally. It's equivelent to arresting an assembly line worker at a hammer plant because the hammer can be used to build an illegal structure. Do we want a world where programmers have to wonder if they are going to be hauled off to jail. Under these standards --- John Gillmore would certianly be a criminal for cracking DES. I am also offended over the jurisdictional issue. We in America are arresting a Russian citizen for conduct that occurred in his own country that was lawful in Russia. Who are we to declare that our laws apply to the entire planet and that we have the right to arrest an punish people who are not citizens of our country? One could make an argument that if there were to be an arrest then it would be the person directly involved with distribution the (illegal) program in America in violation of American law. But this is a programmer who had nothing to do with the distribution of this product here. If we were to apply the "shoe on the other foot" test --- suppose an american programmer were arrested in Saudi Arabia for writing a JPEG viewer that allowed Saudi men to view naked women (naked meaning no veil on face). We would be ready to go to war over the issue. Is every programmer and every webmaster who puts anything on the internet to be subject to prosecution for violating any law anywhere on the planet? I think not --- and I think that since this is a personal attack against the open source community that it is our duty as open source programmers (as you know --- I am also a programmer) to assert to the United States that we will not accept this and we should draw a line in the sand and tell the United States to back down. Well --- I'm ranting now. --- My point --- I support action at OSCON - I will be there - how can I be of service? Bob La Quey wrote: > This cannot be allowed to stand. We definitely want to put together > an action. The only question in my mind is what/when, etc. > > I suggest that OSCON should throw together an immediate ad hoc panel > on this issue. We will probably also want to organize efforts separately > from the OSCON, which after all has an agenda of its own. > > As a minimum we want to find an effective way to leverage this large > gathering of programmers and to help Dmitry and blast the DMCA. > > Just think what the American public would be saying if this was a > young American programmer with a wife and two children being held > by the KGB in Moscow. Shame on the USA. Shame on Adobe. > > At 07:35 AM 7/20/01 -0700, Will Doherty wrote: > >Hey Bob, > > > >I have cc'ed the two EFF people I know of who are attending > >OSC... if you all can have a strategy session on this idea, > >EFF is interested in participating. > > > >Free Dmitry, > > > >Will Doherty > >Online Activist / Media Relations > >Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > >Web http://www.eff.org > > > >Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > >------- > > > >At 07:25 AM 7/20/2001 -0700, Bob La Quey wrote: > >>The Open Source Convention will be meeting in San Diego > >>this next week JUly 23-27. Since this is perhaps the largest > >>single gathering of Free/Open Source software people anywhere > >>we should certainly plan some action in response to the > >>Sklyarov Affair. > >> > >>Thoughts? > >> > >> > >>Bob La Quey Free Dmitry http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>free-sklyarov mailing list > >>free-sklyarov@zork.net > >>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > Bob La Quey --__--__-- Message: 14 charset="iso-8859-1" From: Richard Leyton To: d p , free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] boycottadobe.co.uk registered! Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:45:46 +0100 On Friday 20 July 2001 2:48 pm, d p wrote: > The domain: > > boycottadobe.co.uk > > has been registered! cool. Might be an idea to put up various pieces of information to give people abroad an idea on how they can help out here. I don't think there's enough critical mass in the UK to start picketting Adobe offices (With Archer going down for 4 years, the Bush visit, and Genoa conference riots starting, the news is pretty overwhelmed at the moment). Happy to be proved wrong if there are more UK (or simply non-US/Russian) people on this list? My thoughts include: - Boycotting US conferences (cf. Alan Cox) - Addresses to write to (Newspapers, Tech commentators, US Embassy?) ...? r. > > As soon as the name servers get sorted, I'll have it > redirecting to boycottadobe.com - unless anyone out > there in the UK wants to start getting some UK-related > pages sorted out? I don't have time for that, but I'm > willing to get the domain pointing wherever it needs > to... > > > dp. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Richard Leyton richard at leyton dot org http://www.leyton.org --__--__-- _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov End of free-sklyarov Digest From aaron.pierce at iconideas.com Fri Jul 20 11:25:48 2001 From: aaron.pierce at iconideas.com (Aaron Pierce) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Just an off-beat suggestion... Message-ID: <3B5877AC.236CA961@iconideas.com> Perhaps someone here that has had there encryption breached by any means in the past should walk into an FBI office, and lodge a criminal complaint against the following people: 1. Bruce Schneier 2. John Wiley & Sons 3. Amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0471117099/qid=995652993/sr=2-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/002-2703298-4584026 (Applied Cryptography: Protocols, Algorithms, and Source Code in C, 2nd Edition) for producing and trafficking in this dangerous "circumvention device/information".... I'm mean, dear god, it even includes source code!! Force the corporations to defend themselves against their own law. It would be really nice if the Applied Crypto was an e-book, using some of Adobe's software, making them party to the distribution of said "circumvention device". From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 20 11:33:19 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: <87ofqfzfuq.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: All those who will be in front of the New York City Adobe offices, across the street from the New York Public Library, at noon Monday 23 July 2001, say "Aye". Aye. Let us count, organize, and protest. oo--JS. From chris.savage at crblaw.com Fri Jul 20 11:37:57 2001 From: chris.savage at crblaw.com (Chris Savage) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chants Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Declan McCullagh [mailto:declan@well.com] > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:14 PM > To: Tim Neu > Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Chants > > > On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 01:06:09PM -0500, Tim Neu wrote: > > > > Here's something anyone can understand: > > > > Keep Russian laws in Russia, US laws in USA > > So you oppose U.S. laws that can be used to prosecute Americans who go > on underage sex tours of southeast Asia? > > Or Germany's laws that can be used to convict a U.S. holocaust > revisionist if he's stupid enough to set foot in Germany? (Or, > as we've seen, even other European countries.) Hey Declan, I think the problem here is linking the person arrested with the intra-US conduct. Let's assume that a programmer writes works for hire for the company for whom he works. Let's assume that the works are legal in the country where the programmer works. Let's assume that the company causes those works to be available in Country X, where for some reason they are illegal. The programmer has done nothing illegal that I can see. The company has acted legally in the place where it resides, but acted illegally in a country to which its products got exported. I'm not an expert on international law, but I don't see the liability of the programmer here. Chris S. *************************************************************************** This electronic mail transmission may contain confidential or privileged information. If you believe that you have received the message in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. *************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/c79a4eb9/attachment.html From jeme at brelin.net Fri Jul 20 11:41:56 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] more on portland In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720112326.00c746f0@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Paul Gowder wrote: > >I have a mailman server here at bitmine.net if all we need is a mailing > >list. > Go for it! Feel free to sign up and get some discussion moving! > >I'm looking at getting a group of people together on Saturday morning to > >work stuff out... who's game? > I can't show, seeing as I'll be 500 miles away tomorrow morning, but I can > call in. Won't be in PDX until Monday morning. Well, that's two no-shows and nobody confirmed. I'll see if I can drum up support on the geeklist. Does anyone know who to contact at PLUG? > See if you can get a room with a phone, I'll call in from across the state. We'll see. Stay informed. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From saint_sam at yahoo.com Fri Jul 20 11:42:43 2001 From: saint_sam at yahoo.com (Sam Gray) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another article Message-ID: <20010720184243.89125.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> I've seen some lists of articles flying back and forth. In the interest of completeness, here's the first article I saw about the situation: http://pigdog.org/auto/scary_tech/link/2155.html ===== "They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's some kind of federal program." - George W. Bush, St. Charles, Mo., Nov. 2, 2000 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 20 11:45:20 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720133018.02fb7ec0@pop.nyu.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Jon Bober wrote: > alright, i am willing to be in on this. > > a search on www.superpages.com yields: > > Adobe Systems Inc > 8 West 40th Street, New York, NY 10018 > (212) 221-6737 > > looks like an adobe building. other than that, i don't have much > information, but i am willing to help, though i would also need help. This number does not get answered, at least not for me in the past fifteen minutes. But the telephone number information system reports that it is the number of Adobe Systems in New York City. oo--JS. From xyz at kalifornia.com Fri Jul 20 11:48:10 2001 From: xyz at kalifornia.com (xyz@kalifornia.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Taking a step back. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: To all who are organizing protests, rallys, letters, sit-ins, sick-outs, etc. I support you %100 and will be contributing to the protest in Washington DC as soon as I get more information about it. However, what needs to be addressed here is more than just getting support, but giving solutions. Most everyone knows that the DMCA is overly broad and in that illegal by the U.S. Constitution. Just saying that, doesn't do anything and doesn't get Sklyarov out of jail, but it can be used as amunition citing other lawsuits. In addition, a petition against the DMCA and getting some senators and governors to agree that the DMCA is a Bad Thing(TM) would also assist. When coming at these issues full force demanding an immediate solution, the first thing you will get is full force resistance. Getting together several senators and governors to write a letter saying "This is bad, we need to release him" would be good, even getting a release in which he cannot leave the country. However you will probably find it more difficult to get him a phone call, then to get a full release. It's just how the U.S. is. Lastly, when making banners and posters and bumper stickers, remember to give some place for these people to look at for more information. Yes, put it in their face, put these everywhere and even start making random calls to people, but make sure that there is a way that they understand that it does affect them. Half of the U.S. still thinks Russia is a super power that is here to destroy the U.S. you have to get through that twenty-year ideology and make people realize that this guy is not a spy, dirty diplomat, or illegal alien but someone who Mrs. Robinson would have over for dinner and apple pie and coffee the next day. To summarize, put on his picture, make people realize this is a human being who was hurt by an unfair law that in turn will hurt book sellers. Which in turn will hurt America raise prices on books and hurt the next eGeneration of kids because someone might hack their eBooks and put in a pornographic picture. When doing this, don't let people forget that Mrs. Robinson likes books and that if she ever made a copy of I Love Lucy then she could be in violation of the DMCA. -D From pablos at kadrevis.com Fri Jul 20 11:50:41 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] shame on you (fwd) Message-ID: <365586.995629841@[10.0.1.220]> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Saturday, July 21, 2001 3:24 AM +1000 From: Horst Herb To: "jcristof@adobe.com" , "dstyerwa@adobe.com" , "lvacante@adobe.com" , "ablatchf@adobe.com" , "skrueger@adobe.com" , "gbabbit@adobe.com" , "wsaso@adobe.com" , "jwarnock@adobe.com" , "cgeschke@adobe.com" , "bchizen@adobe.com" , "snarayen@adobe.com" , "mdemo@adobe.com" , "gfreeman@adobe.com" , "cpouliot@adobe.com" , "jstephens@adobe.com" , "mdyrdahl@adobe.com" , "lepstein@adobe.com" , "lsellers@adobe.com" , "blamkin@adobe.com" Subject: shame on you Shame on you! The outrageous abuse of Mr Skylarov's human rights will not be forgotten that soon. H & J Herb Pty Ltd as well as H & J Herb Nominees Pty Ltd cease from today onwards using any Adobe products. In fact, we have shredded all our licenses for Adobe Premiere and Adobe Photoshop. We will purge all copies of Acrobat reader from our system and in the future refuse to submit or receive any documents in PDF format. I will personally pull my weight in Australian health IT organizations as well as medical professional organizations in order to achieve a ban of PDF formatted documents. We rather accept struggling with inferior software than supporting a company that has no respect for intellectual freedom. Disgusted, Dr. Horst Herb, MD ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From me at ryanmarsh.com Fri Jul 20 09:49:14 2001 From: me at ryanmarsh.com (Ryan Marsh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Legality of Sklyarov's arrest and Dallas/Houston protest? In-Reply-To: <000601c11147$d62d7ca0$0bc9a8c0@khijol.org> References: <000601c11147$d62d7ca0$0bc9a8c0@khijol.org> Message-ID: <995647754.1833.3.camel@cocoon.butterflysoft.org> I've contacted the Houston Chronicle to see if they'd do a story on him. As far as I know no one has setup a protest for the Houston area. If you do get one together, be sure to let the EFF know so they can put it on your website. I wish I could get somethign started there... I'm a native Houstonian but I live in SF :-( -ryan > > On a related note, anyone know if a protest is being organized in either > Dallas or Houston for Monday? > -- > Ed Carp, N7EKG - erc@pobox.com - 214/986-5870 (cell phone) - > http://www.pobox.com/~erc > > Is your web site data driven? Are you swamped with work managing, updating, > and deploying that data on to your web site? You need Escapade! Check us > out at http://www.squishedmosquito.com/cgi-bin/esp?PAGE=esp_intro.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Regards, -ryan The three great virtues of programming are laziness, impatience, and hubris, but bigotry makes the open-source world go round. From pablos at kadrevis.com Fri Jul 20 11:51:35 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] bravo (fwd) Message-ID: <368856.995629895@[10.0.1.220]> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Friday, July 20, 2001 12:17 PM -0500 From: Johnathon Williams To: "nicehair@boycottadobe.com" Subject: bravo To Whom It May Concern: I just wanted to send a brief note of applause and congratulations to you for your efforts on behalf of Dmitry Sklyarov through www.boycottadobe.com. As a U.S. citizen, I was ashamed to see our government's actions against Mr. Sklyarov, taken as they were under the pretense of a ridiculous piece of legislation that so obviously violates the first amendment of our constitution. It is obvious the Adobe Corp. and the malignant parts of our own Justice Dept. hoped to avoid public outcry by using a foreigner to set a precedent for criminal prosecution under the DMCA. Bravo to you for creating a resource to make it easy for people such as myself to let those in power know how we feel about their actions. Rest assured, I will be using your sight to do just that. Sincerely, Johnathon Williams Fayetteville, Arkansas ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From declan at well.com Fri Jul 20 11:51:47 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] International law and U.S. v. Sklyarov In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720143951.02076250@mail.well.com> Chris is an unusually smart fellow, and I have no quibble with what he says. But in thinking through this myself, it seems like these are reasonable questions: 1. Is it reasonable for one country's law to apply to those people who committed "crimes" while outside that country? Personally, I'm inclined to say no, but I recognize that the weight of legal opinion is likely against me. 2. Does writing the code for Elcomsoft's product violate the DMCA? (let's ignore the jurisdictional question for the moment) The problem here is that the DMCA was intentionally written terribly broadly. It says: "No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that (circumvents, etc.)" It's true the prosecution has just lodged the trafficking charge, but I can see them amending their charges to include "manufacturing" if necessary. This is a real danger, and this is why y'all should be agitating to repeal or amend the DMCA as well as freeing Sklyarov, since for all you know there could be 10 more arrests that are scheduled to take place in the next hour. Does anyone have any cites to how broadly "traffic in" has been interpreted by U.S. courts? -Declan At 02:37 PM 7/20/01 -0400, Chris Savage wrote: >I think the problem here is linking the person arrested with the intra-US >conduct. > >Let's assume that a programmer writes works for hire for the company for >whom he works. > >Let's assume that the works are legal in the country where the programmer >works. > >Let's assume that the company causes those works to be available in >Country X, where for some reason they are illegal. > >The programmer has done nothing illegal that I can see. The company has >acted legally in the place where it resides, but acted illegally in a >country to which its products got exported. > >I'm not an expert on international law, but I don't see the liability of >the programmer here. > >Chris S. From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 20 11:54:04 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F7E@ryentes1.mobius.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Leonid Gorkin wrote: > I guess Adobe office here is more like a couple of rooms on 14th floor of > some skyscraper. I found a federal courthouse building: 500 Pearl Street, > not far from mayor's office. I like the library connection. Libraries and users of libraries fair use rights are under assault by Adobe and other Copyright Englobulators. I vote for noon Monday 23 July 2001 in front of the offices of Adobe on 40th Street on the Island of the Manahattoes. oo--JS. From LGORKIN at mobius.com Fri Jul 20 11:59:19 2001 From: LGORKIN at mobius.com (Leonid Gorkin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? Message-ID: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F81@ryentes1.mobius.com> OK, I agree. Let's meet on Saturday to work out the details. Carlos Barnes and Noble near Union Square. How about 6pm on Saturday? -----Original Message----- From: Jay Sulzberger [mailto:jays@panix.com] Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:54 PM To: Leonid Gorkin Cc: 'Jon Bober'; free-sklyarov@zork.net; nylug-talk Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Leonid Gorkin wrote: > I guess Adobe office here is more like a couple of rooms on 14th floor of > some skyscraper. I found a federal courthouse building: 500 Pearl Street, > not far from mayor's office. I like the library connection. Libraries and users of libraries fair use rights are under assault by Adobe and other Copyright Englobulators. I vote for noon Monday 23 July 2001 in front of the offices of Adobe on 40th Street on the Island of the Manahattoes. oo--JS. From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 20 12:00:42 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: <005901c11148$50fe5fd0$9d01000a@cgomesw2k> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Carlos Macedo Gomes wrote: > Jon and Leonid, > > I believe we do have to get a permit to protest in NYC- at least officially. > I'll try to contact a few groups that may have a better understanding of the > legal side and will update ASAP. If we're shooting for Monday that doesn't give > us much time to get the paper work together if it's needed. > > The location below sounds good to me. We should put out a larger call for > support online (nylug.org, lxny.org, Perl Mongers, local EFF chapters, etc). > I've sent an email to the secretary at lxny.org but don't have any direct > contact w/ the other groups. > > So right now we have 3 in NYC. 2's company and 3's a crowd? It's at least > enough to cover an intersection handing out flyers. I'm game to meet sometime > tomorrow to check heads and work out a game plan. I suggest the Barnes and > Nobles near Union Square but I'm flexible. > > regards, > C.G. We'll have more than 3 people on Monday. Which Barnes and Noble's near Union Square, the old store on Fifth Avenue, or the new style one on Sixth? oo--JS. From dredd at megacity.org Fri Jul 20 12:03:32 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chants In-Reply-To: <20010720141346.A26354@cluebot.com> References: <20010720141346.A26354@cluebot.com> Message-ID: At 2:13 PM -0400 7/20/01, Declan McCullagh wrote: >On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 01:06:09PM -0500, Tim Neu wrote: >> >> Here's something anyone can understand: >> >> Keep Russian laws in Russia, US laws in USA > >So you oppose U.S. laws that can be used to prosecute Americans who go >on underage sex tours of southeast Asia? Yes, if it is legal in $COUNTRY, we have no business trying to enforce $USA standards on actions committed in $COUNTRY. Or do Singapore citizens who chew chewing gum while in $REST_OF_WORLD get to face prosecution when they get home? >Or Germany's laws that can be used to convict a U.S. holocaust >revisionist if he's stupid enough to set foot in Germany? (Or, >as we've seen, even other European countries.) I would oppose that as well, yes. D -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Jul 20 12:04:18 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Taking a step back. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, <> wrote: > Half of the U.S. still thinks Russia is a super power that is > here to destroy the U.S. you have to get through that twenty-year ideology > and make people realize that this guy is not a spy, dirty diplomat, or > illegal alien but someone who Mrs. Robinson would have over for dinner and > apple pie and coffee the next day. Also, we will be up against some media mischaracterization of Dimtry as a hacker distributing WAR3Z, rather than a student, and whistleblower. Those of us who do encryption research are pretty familiar with snake-oil encryption products, but these particular products Dimitry exposed are way beyond run-of-the-mill crap. I'm not exaggerating when I say that some of them use ciphers that grade school children wouldn't use to pass notes. Combine that with multi-thousand-dollar price tags and you have to wonder why Adobe thought it was wise to get the attention of the Justice Department. -S From pablos at kadrevis.com Fri Jul 20 12:04:59 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A little Email to support Dmitry (fwd) Message-ID: <417078.995630699@[10.0.1.220]> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Friday, July 20, 2001 8:54 PM +0200 From: SquiD To: "circularfile@boycottadobe.com" Subject: A little Email to support Dmitry Hiii I'm from Belgium that is just an Email to support Dmitry who has been arrested, I think its very injust, this man has a family and childs, he has just cracked a software, why put a guy in jail for that ??? It's ridiculus, how many hackers and crackers exist in this world??? certainly 10.000.000 , we can arrest all of them too so !! If I can support this man better of that write me an Email and explain me how! COURAGE DMITRY !!! I'm with you... Best Regards David ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: unknown sender Subject: no subject Date: no date Size: 38 Url: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/7d2bae27/attachment.mht From squiiid at yahoo.com Fri Jul 20 11:54:49 2001 From: squiiid at yahoo.com (SquiD) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:28 2005 Subject: A little Email to support Dmitry Message-ID: <001201c1114d$74a997b0$370988d9@lol6zlpb0iesrv> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 9874 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/e82ceae7/attachment.jpe From mike at toppa.com Fri Jul 20 12:09:11 2001 From: mike at toppa.com (Michael Toppa) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] history of the DMCA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010720120137.009d2a20@netmail.home.com> Hi all, I just joined the list today, so I don't know if this information has been posted already: I recommend checking out the Educause site if you're looking for a primer on how the DMCA came to be. The URL is: http://www.educause.edu/issues/dmca.html The articles in the "Washington Updates" section at the bottom provide a good, concise history. What really got my attention is that the DMCA passed the Senate 99-0. Keep this in mind if you're writing to your Senator. Mike T From paul at paultopia.net Fri Jul 20 12:08:37 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chants In-Reply-To: <20010720141346.A26354@cluebot.com> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720130657.0385b6a0@mail.paultopia.net> Declan said >On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 01:06:09PM -0500, Tim Neu wrote: > > > > Here's something anyone can understand: > > > > Keep Russian laws in Russia, US laws in USA > >So you oppose U.S. laws that can be used to prosecute Americans who go >on underage sex tours of southeast Asia? No, that covers US citizens. They don't prosecute Thais who go on underage sex tours of SE asia in the USA, even if they come to the USA later and talk about it. >Or Germany's laws that can be used to convict a U.S. holocaust >revisionist if he's stupid enough to set foot in Germany? (Or, >as we've seen, even other European countries.) Yes. Conduct by a citizen of another country in that other country shouldn't be prosecutable by a country just because the actor set foot there. Rest, give. it. -P -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From declan at well.com Fri Jul 20 12:09:09 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chants In-Reply-To: References: <20010720141346.A26354@cluebot.com> <20010720141346.A26354@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720150756.0207f120@mail.well.com> At 12:03 PM 7/20/01 -0700, Derek Balling wrote: >Or do Singapore citizens who chew chewing gum while in $REST_OF_WORLD get >to face prosecution when they get home? I don't mean to get embroiled in this since I've already outlined my thoughts in another message, but you may wish to know that the chewing of chewing gum is allowed in Singapore. It's the selling inside Singapore's borders that's not. If you wish to make a political point, you should check your facts. -Declan From paul at paultopia.net Fri Jul 20 12:10:40 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chants In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720130929.00e64940@mail.paultopia.net> At 12:23 PM 7/20/01, Xcott Craver wrote: > [BTW, Adobe's slogan is "everywhere you look." That just has > Big Brother written all over it.] Adobe: arresting you everywhere you speak. (?) -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From jeme at brelin.net Fri Jul 20 12:15:36 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > I like the library connection. Libraries and users of libraries fair use > rights are under assault by Adobe and other Copyright Englobulators. > > I vote for noon Monday 23 July 2001 in front of the offices of Adobe on > 40th Street on the Island of the Manahattoes. Have you guys talked to folks at the library itself to get them to come out and protest the DMCA with you? Just a thought. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From robertl1 at home.com Fri Jul 20 12:15:09 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] shame on you (fwd) In-Reply-To: <365586.995629841@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720121217.02151e70@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> At 11:50 AM 7/20/01 -0700, you wrote: >---------- Forwarded Message ---------- >Date: Saturday, July 21, 2001 3:24 AM +1000 >From: Horst Herb >Subject: shame on you > >Shame on you! >The outrageous abuse of Mr Skylarov's human rights will not be forgotten >that soon. > >H & J Herb Pty Ltd as well as H & J Herb Nominees Pty Ltd cease from today >onwards using any Adobe products. In fact, we have shredded all our licenses >for Adobe Premiere and Adobe Photoshop. We will purge all copies of Acrobat >reader from our system and in the future refuse to submit or receive any >documents in PDF format. > >I will personally pull my weight in Australian health IT organizations as >well as medical professional organizations in order to achieve a ban of PDF >formatted documents. Hurrah for you good Dr. Horst Herb! >We rather accept struggling with inferior software than supporting a company >that has no respect for intellectual freedom. Use superior software. Use the GIMP. http://www.gimp.org/ Bob La Quey From dredd at megacity.org Fri Jul 20 12:14:09 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chants In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720150756.0207f120@mail.well.com> References: <20010720141346.A26354@cluebot.com> <20010720141346.A26354@cluebot.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010720150756.0207f120@mail.well.com> Message-ID: At 3:09 PM -0400 7/20/01, Declan McCullagh wrote: >At 12:03 PM 7/20/01 -0700, Derek Balling wrote: >>Or do Singapore citizens who chew chewing gum while in >>$REST_OF_WORLD get to face prosecution when they get home? > >I don't mean to get embroiled in this since I've already outlined my >thoughts in another message, but you may wish to know that the >chewing of chewing gum is allowed in Singapore. It's the selling >inside Singapore's borders that's not. If you wish to make a >political point, you should check your facts. Must be more than just the "selling" because a co-worker of mine spent about 2 hours in a small room for having two packs of gum (one for each direction on the plane-ride back and forth), after which both packs were confiscated from him. That certainly seems to warn against "possession", which would (transitively) prevent "consumption". :) But regardless of the semantics of the argument, the point is the same. :) (and heading offtopic) D -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 20 12:15:17 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: [nylug-talk] pleeease arrange a monday protest. In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720144904.0229e380@pop.nyu.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Jon Bober wrote: > perhaps someone close to the area could actually scout out the building? i > would be willing to do this if i can leave work early (in the next 20 > minutes.) would this be worth the effort? is someone closer? i am at > Washington Square Park right now. > > At 11:40 AM 7/20/01 -0700, you wrote: I know the block. I believe that the building is simply an office building. The telephone number does not answer. The site is good for the protest. We will be able to tell people going to the library about Adobe's plans to shut down all public libraries. And that Adobe has taken the first step, by jailing one who simply made it possible for owners of Adobe jacketed ebooks to make fair use of their own bought and paid for property. oo--JS. From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Jul 20 12:19:04 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chants In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Derek Balling wrote: > Yes, if it is legal in $COUNTRY, we have no business trying to > enforce $USA standards on actions committed in $COUNTRY. One should also recognize the difference between Dimitry's situation and this one. Dimitry's is not a case of a citizen of $A travelling to $B to perform an act illegal in $A. This is a case of a citizen of $B doing something in $B (possibly) that is illegal in some other country $A. An appropriate analogy might be an American tourist being arrested in China for being a mother of 3. -S From neale at woozle.org Fri Jul 20 12:21:43 2001 From: neale at woozle.org (Neale Pickett) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattle Protest Details Message-ID: Gar! Have I not sent this yet??? The protest is planned from Gasworks park to the Adobe campus on 34th just before the Fremont bridge (does anyone know if this is the right building? Their address shows up as being just before the Aurora bridge. If anyone works in Fremont, maybe you could check for me at lunch today :-) It's looking like there might be close to 20 people at the protest, judging from emails I've gotten so far. That number may rise over the weekend. I called the Police this morning, the officer I spoke with said I might need to get a street use permit(!), so to humor them I called up the Seattle Transportation Street Use Section. Hopefully they won't require such a thing; the permit costs $64, with a $270 cleanup deposit, and you have to be unsured for liability of at least $1,000,000. Seattle Transportation issues Street Use Permits for any activity that temporarily closes a street or sidewalk, exclusive of escorted processions, parades, or any event for which Police Department personnel are required. Can anyone verify this for me? Neale From dredd at megacity.org Fri Jul 20 12:21:46 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chants In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720130657.0385b6a0@mail.paultopia.net> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720130657.0385b6a0@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: At 1:08 PM -0600 7/20/01, Paul Gowder wrote: >Declan said >>On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 01:06:09PM -0500, Tim Neu wrote: >>> >>> Here's something anyone can understand: >>> >>> Keep Russian laws in Russia, US laws in USA >> >>So you oppose U.S. laws that can be used to prosecute Americans who go >>on underage sex tours of southeast Asia? > >No, that covers US citizens. They don't prosecute Thais who go on >underage sex tours of SE asia in the USA, even if they come to the >USA later and talk about it. Can the State of New York give the holder of a NY Drivers License a ticket for travelling at 102mph on the Autobahn? Can the Federal Government arrest you for purchasing and smoking a Cuban cigar while in Canada? If $ACT is legal in $COUNTRY_ACT_PERFORMED_IN, that should be the end of it. $OTHER_COUNTRY can sit-n-spin. D -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 20 12:23:21 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F81@ryentes1.mobius.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Leonid Gorkin wrote: > OK, I agree. Let's meet on Saturday to work out the details. Carlos Barnes > and Noble near Union Square. How about 6pm on Saturday? I'll be there, but again, I ask, the Barnes and Noble's on Fifth Avenue, or on Sixth Avenue? oo--JS. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jay Sulzberger [mailto:jays@panix.com] > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:54 PM > To: Leonid Gorkin > Cc: 'Jon Bober'; free-sklyarov@zork.net; nylug-talk > Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? > > > > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Leonid Gorkin wrote: > > > I guess Adobe office here is more like a couple of rooms on 14th floor of > > some skyscraper. I found a federal courthouse building: 500 Pearl Street, > > not far from mayor's office. > > I like the library connection. Libraries and users of libraries fair use > rights are under assault by Adobe and other Copyright Englobulators. > > I vote for noon Monday 23 July 2001 in front of the offices of Adobe on > 40th Street on the Island of the Manahattoes. > > oo--JS. > From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Fri Jul 20 12:23:20 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Where EFF was at that time??? 8-O References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010720120137.009d2a20@netmail.home.com> Message-ID: <048201c11151$74a3f590$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, EFF! Michael Toppa> good, concise history. What really got my attention Michael Toppa> is that the DMCA passed the Senate 99-0. Keep Michael Toppa> this in mind if you're writing to your Senator. My heart is with EFF, but I must tell you: subj! Isn't it wiser not to have this laws, then to fight with their enforcement? People from other(!) countries put into prison because of not good work EFF with U.S. Senate. :( When you fight with some U.S. law, remember -- its planetary problem! - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From LGORKIN at mobius.com Fri Jul 20 12:28:05 2001 From: LGORKIN at mobius.com (Leonid Gorkin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? Message-ID: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F84@ryentes1.mobius.com> Let's just peek one, on Fifth. -----Original Message----- From: Jay Sulzberger [mailto:jays@panix.com] Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 3:23 PM To: Leonid Gorkin Cc: 'Jon Bober'; free-sklyarov@zork.net; nylug-talk; 'Carlos Macedo Gomes'; Jay Sulzberger Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Leonid Gorkin wrote: > OK, I agree. Let's meet on Saturday to work out the details. Carlos Barnes > and Noble near Union Square. How about 6pm on Saturday? I'll be there, but again, I ask, the Barnes and Noble's on Fifth Avenue, or on Sixth Avenue? oo--JS. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jay Sulzberger [mailto:jays@panix.com] > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:54 PM > To: Leonid Gorkin > Cc: 'Jon Bober'; free-sklyarov@zork.net; nylug-talk > Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? > > > > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Leonid Gorkin wrote: > > > I guess Adobe office here is more like a couple of rooms on 14th floor of > > some skyscraper. I found a federal courthouse building: 500 Pearl Street, > > not far from mayor's office. > > I like the library connection. Libraries and users of libraries fair use > rights are under assault by Adobe and other Copyright Englobulators. > > I vote for noon Monday 23 July 2001 in front of the offices of Adobe on > 40th Street on the Island of the Manahattoes. > > oo--JS. > From proclus at iname.com Fri Jul 20 11:38:41 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (Michael L. Love) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Sklyarov meets Copyright, East meats West References: <3B580161.37AEDD7@locosun.com> Message-ID: <3B587AB1.4000308@iname.com> For what is worth, I'm in agreement with the general thrust of this message, althought it is somewhat severe in tone. There are two major problems though, which needs to be understood. First, Dmitry was almost certaing _not_ arrested for his scholarly work or presentation. Rather, he was probably arrested for selling the program on US soil for $99 in violation of the DMCA. Finally, like it or not, by his actions, Dmitry has graduated to uber-geek status and hacker par excellence. This will not change, and it is not necessarily a bad thing. In this connection, you should read an essay by Eric Raymond (ESR), who is similarly an uber-geek, hacker, author, and a board member of an important American corporation, VA-Linux. Here is a link to the most pertinent section of the essay. http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html#WHAT_IS If you read it, I think that you will find that Dmitry much in common with the wonderful hacker ESR. It is unfortunate that the media has painted the H-word so bleakly, but we are working to change that, and despite early indications, we are succeeding. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ igor@locosun.com wrote: > Dear Peter, > > I'm greatly disappointed by the article > http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=177 you posted on > planetbook.com (which otherwise provides a good coverage of the story so > far). > > The article is full of speculations about "Eastern mentality" and > contains a number of factual errors. > > The saddest of them all is a fact that Dmitry is referred as a "hacker > who raised from the rudimentary and relatively low-key "Here's a neat > little cracking program I've posted" profile" to declaring "a alliance > along with the West Coast technos against software tyranny". > > I have known Dmitry for about 10 years. > > Dmitry's an extremely talented researcher working at one the best > Russian Universities (Bauman Moscow State Technical University) as well > as a Senior Cryptoanalyst (his official position) for Elcomsoft. > > He has been known as a lawful citizen who is supporting his wife and two > children. He has never had any connections with any hackers/crackers > groups as nor he has ever participated in any illegal activities. > > As I believe, his appearance at this year's DefCon conference was based > on his natural for any researcher desire to share his discoveries with > the world. > > The controversy over the program developed and distributed by Elcomsoft > which lead to Dmitry's arrest should not be used as a sufficient ground > for a criminal prosecution of an individual. > > As far as I know there is no precedence of that nature, in fact, quite > opposite: e.g. during the recent case related to copyright infringement > involved Napster no Napster's employees were arrested as the case was > settled between the companies not via imprisoning the employees. > > To sum up: > > -- Dmitry has not solely developed nor distributed or sold the > controversial software his was arrested for, therefore the issue should > be resolved between Adobe Inc and Elcomsoft(developer and distributor of > the product) and not by imprisoning a security expert. > > -- Dmitry's research underlines certain weaknesses of one of the > products of Adobe Inc. Arresting him for announcing the results of this > work is equivalent of arresting tv reporters from a car reviewing > program for discovering that an alarm/immobiliser does not work as > promised by the manufacturer. > > I would appreciate it very much if you can help to draw public attention > to the fact that Dmitry is NOT a HACKER/CRACKER (in common terms) but an > exceptional SECURITY EXPERT and help him to return to his wife Oksana, > son Egor (2.5 year)and daughter Polina (3 months). > > Thank you, > > Igor Drokov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From robertl1 at home.com Fri Jul 20 12:35:31 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] OSCON San Diego action Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720123448.0347b890@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> I suggest that all those concerned with this issue who are in San Diego by Sunday evening can meet at say 8:00 PM in the Lobby Sheraton San Diego Hotel and Marina 1380 Harbor Island Drive San Diego, California 92101 This is really a natural place for old friends attending the OSCON to meet first anyway. We just hold up a few "FREE DMITRY" signs and then self-organize from there. If it is crowd then we will find a place to take it. Has anyone contacted CNN yet? This is an international story and could break big at the G8. Bob La Quey From paul at paultopia.net Fri Jul 20 12:36:10 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chants In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720130657.0385b6a0@mail.paultopia.net> <4.3.2.7.0.20010720130657.0385b6a0@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720133418.00e68c20@mail.paultopia.net> At 01:21 PM 7/20/01, Derek Balling wrote: >If $ACT is legal in $COUNTRY_ACT_PERFORMED_IN, that should be the end of it. $OTHER_COUNTRY can sit-n->spin. Well, I wouldn't want to go that far. If a US citizen who happens to have (legally) posession of national security secrets (real ones), and happens to find himself in Libya, one would really like U.S. espionage law to apply. On the other hand, a Libyan citizen in Libya -- screw the US, they shouldn't have given him the damn secrets. -Paul -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From chris.savage at crblaw.com Fri Jul 20 12:39:36 2001 From: chris.savage at crblaw.com (Chris Savage) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: International law and U.S. v. Sklyarov Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Declan McCullagh [mailto:declan@well.com] > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:52 PM > To: Chris Savage; Tim Neu > Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: International law and U.S. v. Sklyarov > > > Chris is an unusually smart fellow, and I have no quibble > with what he says. >But in thinking through this myself, it seems like these are >reasonable questions: > > 1. Is it reasonable for one country's law to apply > to those people who committed "crimes" while outside > that country? Personally, I'm inclined to say no, but > I recognize that the weight of legal opinion is likely > against me. We really need an international jurisdiction expert here, but I think the key test is "effects." Suppose I get into a brawl with someone in a bar in Country X and kill them. Under the laws of Country X it is justifiable homicide. Under US law it would be (say) manslaughter. The normal rule is that the US can't prosecute me for manslaughter in country X. OTOH consider GE buying Honeywell. GE and Honeywell are both US corporations, but they both have major activities in the EU. So when the EU said that it would violate their laws for GE to buy Honeywell, the deal was dead. The logic is the even if GE and Honeywell are US corporations and the literal merger would be a US act, the effects in the EU justify EU jurisdiction. > 2. Does writing the code for Elcomsoft's product > violate the DMCA? (let's ignore the jurisdictional > question for the moment) The problem here is that > the DMCA was intentionally written terribly broadly. > It says: "No person shall manufacture, import, offer > to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any > technology, product, service, device, component, > or part thereof, that (circumvents, etc.)" It's true the > prosecution has just lodged the trafficking charge, but > I can see them amending their charges to include > "manufacturing" if necessary. Assuming that writing code is manufacturing it, then writing code that violates the DMCA would (under this broad interpretation, and putting aside either possible judicial narrowing (e.g., limit "manufacture" to not apply to software) or constitutional issues) be illegal. But the mere writing of code in Moscow has no effects in the US. Hence no US jurisdiction over the writing. The US jurisdiction (to the extent it exists, and, again IANA-international-L) arises from the trafficking (or maybe importing), neither of which Sklarov did, AFAI can tell. If this is basically right, then the "manufacturing" charge wouldn't lie. > This is a real danger, and this is why y'all should be > agitating to repeal or amend the DMCA as well as freeing > Sklyarov, since for all you know there > could be 10 more arrests that are scheduled to take place in > the next hour. This is one of the many things wrong with the DMCA. > Does anyone have any cites to how broadly "traffic in" has > been interpreted by U.S. courts? Beats me. The issue isn't "trafficking in" within the US, though; it seems to me it's international "trafficking." Chris S. *************************************************************************** This electronic mail transmission may contain confidential or privileged information. If you believe that you have received the message in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. *************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/c414a97b/attachment.html From andrea at gravitt.org Fri Jul 20 12:39:02 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Where EFF was at that time??? 8-O Message-ID: <01e301c11153$a34461d0$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> >Isn't it wiser not to have this laws, then to fight with their enforcement? >People from other(!) countries put into prison because of not good work >EFF with U.S. Senate. :( EFF was there, and so were other organizations. But they were waved away with "But we wouldn't do that to you, you are nice people." The RIAA even tried this after they threatened the university professors with a lawsuit, after they succeeded in preventing the presentation, they said "Oh, we really didn't mean it!" Now they are trying to get EFF's case thrown out by telling everyone what nice guys they are. There was almost no public awareness that this was even under discussion. The big corporations, with money to hire people to explain to Congress how wonderful this will be for America and, by the way, their profits, were all that our legislators heard. In many ways, this has become the United States of Corporate America. Since it takes money to hire lawyers and lobby Congress to get laws made, those with money have much more power with the government. From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 20 12:41:03 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: [nylug-talk] pleeease arrange a monday protest. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, lo wrote: > > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > > > Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:15:17 -0400 (EDT) > > From: Jay Sulzberger > > To: Jon Bober > > Cc: nylug-talk@nylug.org, free-sklyarov@zork.net, > > Jay Sulzberger > > Subject: RE: [nylug-talk] pleeease arrange a monday protest. > > > > > > > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Jon Bober wrote: > > > > > perhaps someone close to the area could actually scout out the building? i > > > would be willing to do this if i can leave work early (in the next 20 > > > minutes.) would this be worth the effort? is someone closer? i am at > > > Washington Square Park right now. > > > > > > At 11:40 AM 7/20/01 -0700, you wrote: > > > > I know the block. I believe that the building is simply an office > > building. The telephone number does not answer. The site is good for the > > protest. > Has anybody double checked to see if Adobe is actually there -- I just got > the info off the internet and don't know for sure if it is > up-to-date/accurate. > > If it IS, then I think the proximity to the library makes it the best > site. But somebody should check it out first. I think it is the office, but I think it makes little difference. Perhaps Adobe has moved its offices, but we are protesting Adobe's part in jailing Dmitry, and it is near the library, and it is listed in several places as being the location of Adobe's office in New York. oo--JS. From proclus at iname.com Fri Jul 20 11:50:16 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] OSCON San Diego action In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720072119.03214e80@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <200107201850.OAA00764@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> Excellent, I think that this would be a fabulous idea! There should be information about all of the free software projects that overlap with the PDF format so that they might get a developmental boost. The eBook has been a tool of proprietary lock-out. We should use free software to put and end to that, so that eBook users can enjoy the benefits of an open platform. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ On 20 Jul, Bob La Quey wrote: > The Open Source Convention will be meeting in San Diego > this next week JUly 23-27. Since this is perhaps the largest > single gathering of Free/Open Source software people anywhere > we should certainly plan some action in response to the > Sklyarov Affair. > > Thoughts? > > > Bob La Quey Free Dmitry http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From jrichard at cubicle.net Fri Jul 20 12:44:18 2001 From: jrichard at cubicle.net (Josh Richards) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] CA Central Coast Action In-Reply-To: <20010720101522.A3637@cubicle.net>; from jrichard@cubicle.net on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 10:15:22AM -0700 References: <01072003072706.02984@moons.logorrhea.com> <20010720101522.A3637@cubicle.net> Message-ID: <20010720124418.A6833@cubicle.net> A list has been set-up for people in the CA Central Coast region to discuss plans for Monday: -jr ---- Josh Richards [JTR38/JR539-ARIN] Geek Research, LLC - San Luis Obispo, CA - KG6CYK - IP/Unix/telecom/knowledge/coffee/security/crypto/business/geek From leklund at flynn.zork.net Fri Jul 20 12:48:59 2001 From: leklund at flynn.zork.net (Lukas Eklund) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chants In-Reply-To: ; from dredd@megacity.org on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 12:21:46PM -0700 References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720130657.0385b6a0@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <20010720144859.D343@flynn.zork.net> Quoting Derek Balling: > If $ACT is legal in $COUNTRY_ACT_PERFORMED_IN, that should be the end > of it. $OTHER_COUNTRY can sit-n-spin. Yes, but if $ACT is performed on the internet, which has no physical boundaries, what laws do we apply to $ACT? -- lukas | SELF-EVIDENT, adj. Evident to one's self and to nobody else. eklund | -- Ambrose Bierce From pablos at kadrevis.com Fri Jul 20 12:51:29 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] UK People .... (fwd) Message-ID: <584465.995633489@[10.0.1.220]> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Friday, July 20, 2001 11:17 AM +0100 From: "jeremy.caudle@uk.abnamro.com" To: "nicehair@boycottadobe.com" Subject: UK People .... People outside the USA should really contact their local USA embassy and make a complaint to the Ambassador. Details of the USA Embassies in the UK can be found at: http://www.usembassy.org.uk/ukaddres.html They don't have an advertised fax number or email address so I'll have to write the old fashioned way. Jez Caudle. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message (including any attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. If you have received it by mistake please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this message from your system. Any unauthorised use or dissemination of this message in whole or in part is strictly prohibited. Please note that e-mails are susceptible to change. ABN AMRO Bank N.V. (including its group companies) shall not be responsible nor liable for the proper and complete transmission of the information contained in this communication nor for any delay in its receipt or damage to your system. ABN AMRO Bank N.V. (or its group companies) does not guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that this communication is free of viruses, interceptions or interference. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- From proclus at iname.com Fri Jul 20 11:59:12 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:30 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: [free-sklyarov] Alan Cox resigns from conference committee , urg es boycott Message-ID: <200107201859.OAA00778@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> On 20 Jul, Seth David Schoen wrote: > ... for those who aren't Linux folks, Alan Cox is the second most > prominent developer on the Linux kernel, after Linus Torvalds. He > lives in the United Kingdom. > > http://lwn.net/daily/alan-quits-als.php3 > It should be noted that Alan recently withdrew from a prominant Unix standards board because of his concerns about DMCA enforcement. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 12:51:12 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Congratulations folks! The pressure we all have put on Adobe has resulted in an agreement to meet with representatives from the Electronic Frontier Foundation on this Monday morning, July 23. For that reason, EFF has decided to: PUT THE JULY 23 PROTEST ON HOLD Please help us act in good faith and postpone the protest until we have a chance to negotiate with Adobe. Of course, we can always rekindle the protest if Adobe does not agree to withdraw their complaint to the US Department of Justice regarding Dmitry Sklyarov and to refuse to pursue further prosecutions under the DMCA for cases that should be prevented under fair use provisions of US copyright law. And also, if the US Attorney's office insists on prosecuting Dmitry without a current complaint from Adobe, then we will continue protests directed at them rather than at Adobe. If you still feel that you have to protest on Monday, you are of course free to do so. However, it may be a more effective use of our collective energies to act in a coordinated way to get Dmitry out of jail. I am writing a media release to this effect as soon as I sent this email to you... wanted you all to know first. Free Dmitry, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- From andrea at gravitt.org Fri Jul 20 12:53:26 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Atlanta Message-ID: <01e901c11155$a629bc90$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> I spoke to the one other person I have been able to contact, there doesn't seem to be much support to try to pull off something for Monday. There is even the question of where the Adobe office is, because I can't find the one supposedly in Norcross in the phone book and the only one listed is in Gainesville. (That is many miles out of Atlanta, and it amazes me there is one at all.) I tried to locate folks with several organizations, but EFGA is dead, SIGGRAPH appears to be as well, and although I got a few comments from se2600, trying to organize that bunch is like herding cats. We are going to make up flyers and try to get local people involved. I am working on getting a graphics geek to help with original content, but it would be really nice to have a few examples to steal. (This would be you, wild@eff.org. If they are on the site, I can't find them.) This weekend I will be drafting letters to my Representative and Senators, and anybody else I can think of. Andrea From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 20 12:54:59 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Bronx Is Up, The Battery's Down, Free Dmitry Message-ID: <873d7rxtnw.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Hey, so, it seems like there's a PLAN for NYC for Monday. Considering that it's now 4PM EDT, on the last work day before the event, it seems like it'd be VERY IMPORTANT to get info on the event on the EFF pages immediately if not sooner. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From salgak at speakeasy.net Fri Jul 20 12:53:19 2001 From: salgak at speakeasy.net (Keith A. Glass (home email)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Where EFF was at that time??? 8-O In-Reply-To: <048201c11151$74a3f590$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: <001d01c11155$a0b085a0$0300a8c0@speakeasy.org> Ilya. . . Where was EFF ?? They WERE fighting it. But, alas, money talks, and the big Media companies behind the DMCA had bought off enough members of the Congress. Excuse me, I mean they contributed generously to their re-election campaigns and Political Action Committees. Even though it means exactly the same thing It's like the CDA: that ALSO passed overwhelmingly. The basic modus operandi of Congress is this: Here is a problem, we must DO something ! This is something. . . Let's do it !! Sad, but effectively truth in a nutshell.... From gomes at navigo.com Fri Jul 20 12:59:41 2001 From: gomes at navigo.com (Carlos Macedo Gomes) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:30 2005 Subject: [nylug-talk] RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? References: Message-ID: <00eb01c11156$961c47e0$9d01000a@cgomesw2k> The one on 5th it is: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/frames/storeLocator/storeLocator_findstore_home.as p?userid=3WKBZNDWEI Union Square 33 East 17th Street New York, NY 10003 212-253-0810 I'll stop by there on my way home tonight and see what the setup is for group meetings. I know they have a discussion/speaker area on the top floor and a cafe on the 2nd to top (penultimate) floor. The cafe may even be setup for wireless/802.11 (not free and not secure), but that's besides it all. I'll see if they can point people to the right direction at the front desk in case last minutes changes are made and out an email w/ results of the findings later today or tomorrow morning. See you all tomorrow... regards, C.G. -- gomes@navigo.com Carlos Macedo Gomes _sic itur ad astra_ 1/1; ----- Original Message ----- From: "lo" To: "Leonid Gorkin" Cc: "'Jay Sulzberger'" ; "'Jon Bober'" ; ; "nylug-talk" ; "'Carlos Macedo Gomes'" Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [nylug-talk] RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? > > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Leonid Gorkin wrote: > > > Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:28:05 -0400 > > From: Leonid Gorkin > > To: 'Jay Sulzberger' > > Cc: 'Jon Bober' , free-sklyarov@zork.net, > > nylug-talk , > > 'Carlos Macedo Gomes' > > Subject: [nylug-talk] RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? > > > > Let's just peek one, on Fifth. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jay Sulzberger [mailto:jays@panix.com] > > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 3:23 PM > > To: Leonid Gorkin > > Cc: 'Jon Bober'; free-sklyarov@zork.net; nylug-talk; 'Carlos Macedo > > Gomes'; Jay Sulzberger > > Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Leonid Gorkin wrote: > > > > > OK, I agree. Let's meet on Saturday to work out the details. Carlos Barnes > > > and Noble near Union Square. How about 6pm on Saturday? > > > > I'll be there, but again, I ask, the Barnes and Noble's on Fifth Avenue, > > or on Sixth Avenue? > I wouldn't be able to be there in the evening (I should be in Connecticut > now) so suggesting a location might beout of place, but Bryant Park > near the refreshment area or behind the library near the open cafe or > whatever with a local coffee shop in case it rains (there are many in > the area) might be better iff the plan is for the Adobe office since it is > right there. > > If not somebody should go check things out before the meeting. For all we > know Adobe might have moved. > > > > > oo--JS. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Jay Sulzberger [mailto:jays@panix.com] > > > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:54 PM > > > To: Leonid Gorkin > > > Cc: 'Jon Bober'; free-sklyarov@zork.net; nylug-talk > > > Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Leonid Gorkin wrote: > > > > > > > I guess Adobe office here is more like a couple of rooms on 14th floor > > of > > > > some skyscraper. I found a federal courthouse building: 500 Pearl > > Street, > > > > not far from mayor's office. > > > > > > I like the library connection. Libraries and users of libraries fair use > > > rights are under assault by Adobe and other Copyright Englobulators. > > > > > > I vote for noon Monday 23 July 2001 in front of the offices of Adobe on > > > 40th Street on the Island of the Manahattoes. > > > > > > oo--JS. > > > > > From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 20 13:00:42 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <87u207wetx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "WD" == Will Doherty writes: WD> Congratulations folks! The pressure we all have put on Adobe WD> has resulted in an agreement to meet with representatives from WD> the Electronic Frontier Foundation on this Monday morning, WD> July 23. WD> For that reason, EFF has decided to: WD> PUT THE JULY 23 PROTEST ON HOLD Will, We are NOT going to be able to get this kind of momentum behind us again if we pull the plug now. It's just NOT going to happen. So PLEASE be VERY confident that there will be CONCRETE results. Frankly, this is the best of all worlds for Adobe: they get a couple of eggheads to come into the office, they blow smoke up your asses for a couple of hours, and then show you the door. In other words, you're neutralized. Everyone who's pulled in favors to get this event publicized will be unable to make that happen again. I know I will. It seems like a REALLY BAD idea to me, so I hope you have a better feeling about the meeting than I do. If I were you, I'd wait until AFTER Monday to meet with Adobe. But that's just me. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From jono at microshaft.org Fri Jul 20 13:01:41 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NOTICE: IT Workers Walk Out Message-ID: <20010720130140.C71604@networkcommand.com> ================================================================= If Adobe's IT department took the day off work, the other employees at Adobe might ask "Hey, what's going on?" and they would find out and be more informed. If the country's IT department took the day off, every employee at every company would ask "Why are they doing that?" and the answer to that question would inform MILLIONS of people about this issue. ================================================================== We have formed an Ad Hoc IT Union. The goal is to assess the possibility of staging an IT Workers Walk Out and provide a unified forum expressing our concern about the DMCA, the arrest and Free Speech. We urge you to support the EFF, protest and send a response to the government and corporate america that we do not agree with these actions and laws. We have established a staging area here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/adhoc_it_union Sign up and help us move forward with the IT Workers Walk Out. From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 20 13:02:48 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Meet TODAY Message-ID: <87puavweqf.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Will, Why don't we continue to plan for events on Monday, and you meet TODAY with Adobe? Or over the weekend? If they give satisfactory answers, then we call off the protests. Otherwise, continue as planned. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From wiggin at myrealbox.com Sat Jul 21 13:05:20 2001 From: wiggin at myrealbox.com (Robert Franklin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Activities in New Mexico Message-ID: <000301c11220$786c2010$6501a8c0@sarnath> A few friends and I are discussing an action in Albuquerque, New Mexico to coincide with the other protests going on. A few questions have surfaced that we could use some advice on. 1) Is anyone else on the list in New Mexico, and willing to either participate or help organize? 2) Has the EFF or anyone on the list created a quick HOWTO for this sort of thing? Topics I am interested in but somewhat clueless about include: Informing the media; informing the authorities (i.e. contacting local law enforcement to let them know we will be there) 3) A set of cluefull speaking points. I'm thinking soundbytes & quotes suitable for 30 seconds of news coverage. It seems to me a good idea to have a short, quick list for people who are either organizing their own small rallies or will be speaking with the press. Perhaps a media guide from the EFF (if one already exists, please direct me to it) would be helpful. what I really have in mind is something short that could be handed out to supporters & media summing up the legal issues/etc. Although concerned, I'm no lawyer & would want to be positive I had my facts right. Thanks, I'm sure more questions will follow-- Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010721/c0e1af7e/attachment.htm From thompson at exerscape.com Fri Jul 20 13:10:22 2001 From: thompson at exerscape.com (Chris Thompson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Utah or Las Vegas protests? Message-ID: <014b01c11158$01a3f0c0$fe001fac@my.dobox> I'll either be in Utah or Las Vegas this weekend and Monday. Anyone planning protests in either of these cities? Chris Thompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/7964cae2/attachment.html From rabbi at quickie.net Fri Jul 20 13:08:32 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DC-Baltimore-Northern Virginia action on Monday? In-Reply-To: <20010720132826.B24891@cluebot.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote: > Anything planned? This is home to the largest concentration of media, > um, talent in the U.S. Not to mention the FBI, DOJ, and Congress. A demonstration outside the FBI building would be nice. Are any of the DC 2600 folks listening? -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From salgak at speakeasy.net Fri Jul 20 13:04:14 2001 From: salgak at speakeasy.net (Keith A. Glass (home email)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <002001c11157$26dc8e20$0300a8c0@speakeasy.org> -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Will Doherty Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 3:51 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold Importance: High >Congratulations folks! No congratulations until Dmitri is free and on a jet, in the air, outside of US jurisdiction... >The pressure we all have put on Adobe has resulted >in an agreement to meet with representatives from >the Electronic Frontier Foundation on this Monday >morning, July 23. That's nice. >For that reason, EFF has decided to: >PUT THE JULY 23 PROTEST ON HOLD Methinks EFF doesn't want my Tax Refund. . . >Please help us act in good faith and postpone the >protest until we have a chance to negotiate with >Adobe. I'm sorry, but you DON'T cave in a situation like this, if we're protesting with media coverage, that's all the more leverage we have in negotiations. **IF** Adobe had acted honorably, we could show good faith. But **WE** haven't done anything wrong: ADOBE is the party who needs to show good faith FIRST. . . And remember, we need to keep the momentum building, because getting Dmitri freed is just the FIRST part of this: getting DMCA overturned is the full goal. . . From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 20 13:12:41 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Future Credibility Message-ID: <87lmljwe9y.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Cancelling Monday's events is going to put egg on all inforights activists' face for future demonstrations. Can you imagine trying to convince people to come to another event in the future? "Oh, SURE you're going to have a demonstration... just like at the Free Dmitry event. Whatever, dude." Media, activist organizations, computer user groups, etc., etc. aren't going to take us as seriously in the future if we cancel now. So, again, there's a BIG PRICE being paid here. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 20 13:13:05 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Meet TODAY In-Reply-To: <87puavweqf.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: On 20 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > Will, > > Why don't we continue to plan for events on Monday, and you meet TODAY > with Adobe? Or over the weekend? If they give satisfactory answers, > then we call off the protests. Otherwise, continue as planned. > > ~Klepht Yes. Why should we call off any protest merely because Adobe says they will talk? As far as I know Dmitry still sits in jail. oo--JS. From jrichard at cubicle.net Fri Jul 20 13:13:30 2001 From: jrichard at cubicle.net (Josh Richards) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <87u207wetx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 01:00:42PM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <87u207wetx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010720131330.I3637@cubicle.net> In addition just because Adobe wants to talk doesn't mean that the DOJ is going to drop the case. People still need to hear the message "Free Sklyarov". Nor does the DMCA suddenly go away just because of a meeting taking place with Adobe. I think it (may be) great that Adobe wants to talk but Adobe is just a corporation. They can't change US law nor do they have an incentive to do so on their own. -jr * Klepht [20010720 13:01]: > >>>>> "WD" == Will Doherty writes: > > WD> Congratulations folks! The pressure we all have put on Adobe > WD> has resulted in an agreement to meet with representatives from > WD> the Electronic Frontier Foundation on this Monday morning, > WD> July 23. > > WD> For that reason, EFF has decided to: > > WD> PUT THE JULY 23 PROTEST ON HOLD > > Will, > > We are NOT going to be able to get this kind of momentum behind us > again if we pull the plug now. It's just NOT going to happen. > > So PLEASE be VERY confident that there will be CONCRETE > results. > > Frankly, this is the best of all worlds for Adobe: they get a couple > of eggheads to come into the office, they blow smoke up your asses for > a couple of hours, and then show you the door. > > In other words, you're neutralized. Everyone who's pulled in favors to > get this event publicized will be unable to make that happen again. I > know I will. > > It seems like a REALLY BAD idea to me, so I hope you have a better > feeling about the meeting than I do. If I were you, I'd wait until > AFTER Monday to meet with Adobe. But that's just me. > > ~Klepht ---- Josh Richards [JTR38/JR539-ARIN] Geek Research, LLC - San Luis Obispo, CA - KG6CYK - IP/Unix/telecom/knowledge/coffee/security/crypto/business/geek From cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu Fri Jul 20 13:15:25 2001 From: cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001 free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net wrote: > Message: 13 > From: Klepht > Organization: Eleutheria > Date: 20 Jul 2001 13:00:42 -0700 [...] > We are NOT going to be able to get this kind of momentum behind us > again if we pull the plug now. It's just NOT going to happen. I second this. If adobe wants to call off the protests, they've got until 12pm on monday. I think a clear message has to be sent that we will *NOT* be threatened. If they didn't want the backlash, they shouldn't have arrested him to begin with. I understand "good faith negotiations", but in my view the breach of good faith was done by whoever assured adobe that we'd all roll over and lie down if they agreed to talks. I don't mean to sound harsh, but we've got a great communications infrastructure here, and I don't feel like my boston people were adequately kept in the loop during this negotiation. --s fissionable Nader class struggle Ft. Meade Honduras SDI Yeltsin SEAL Team 6 non-violent protest Diplomat Kennedy struggle Peking Semtex SSBN 743 ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian ) -- "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970, minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4. -- [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/] #!/usr/bin/perl -w # 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz # MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout # arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order $_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5; $_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d= unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d >>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9 ,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t ^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271)) [$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 13:16:05 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <87u207wetx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus> Adobe only agreed to meet with us if we would put the Monday, July 23 protest on hold. We would like to believe that Adobe will be negotiating in earnest and it is not EFF's style to engage in punitive protests when there is hope of a negotiated solution. If some folks go ahead and protest and antagonize Adobe, that may escalate the situation, preclude Adobe withdrawing their complaint, and keep Dmitry in jail. I think should treat this as a partial victory... we have succeeded in getting to the table in a big way with Adobe! Let's use that leverage to get some concrete action. And if they don't budge, we can still protest. Those who offered the favors once hopefully did so because we have an important cause here, and will likely do so again. I am glad to hear everyone's comments about this and look forward to working together to get Dmitry out of jail and end further unfair DMCA prosecutions. Free Dmitry, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 01:00 PM 7/20/2001 -0700, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "WD" == Will Doherty writes: > > WD> Congratulations folks! The pressure we all have put on Adobe > WD> has resulted in an agreement to meet with representatives from > WD> the Electronic Frontier Foundation on this Monday morning, > WD> July 23. > > WD> For that reason, EFF has decided to: > > WD> PUT THE JULY 23 PROTEST ON HOLD > >Will, > >We are NOT going to be able to get this kind of momentum behind us >again if we pull the plug now. It's just NOT going to happen. > >So PLEASE be VERY confident that there will be CONCRETE >results. > >Frankly, this is the best of all worlds for Adobe: they get a couple >of eggheads to come into the office, they blow smoke up your asses for >a couple of hours, and then show you the door. > >In other words, you're neutralized. Everyone who's pulled in favors to >get this event publicized will be unable to make that happen again. I >know I will. > >It seems like a REALLY BAD idea to me, so I hope you have a better >feeling about the meeting than I do. If I were you, I'd wait until >AFTER Monday to meet with Adobe. But that's just me. > >~Klepht > >-- >klepht@eleutheria.org >http://www.eleutheria.org/ From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Jul 20 13:16:50 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <87u207wetx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: On 20 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > WD> PUT THE JULY 23 PROTEST ON HOLD > > Will, > > We are NOT going to be able to get this kind of momentum behind us > again if we pull the plug now. It's just NOT going to happen. > So PLEASE be VERY confident that there will be CONCRETE results. Wouldn't it be advantageous to EFF if people gathered in SJ anyway, in preparation for a protest, contingent upon the outcome of the meeting earlier that morning? Could people are ready to protest outside be a bargaining chip? -S From rabbi at quickie.net Fri Jul 20 13:17:53 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: <87hew7xz4i.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: On 20 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > You have to face the fact that you just may end up standing in the > rain, by yourself, in your underwear, crying and handing out > leaflets. It's like "Ghost Dog" -- once you face that, you can kick > ass. It's the way of the Event Samurai! Yeah -- Macki and I went to Ashcroft's press conference at Verisign today. The AG was talking about the new "Cybercrime" force, and we hit reporters with an open letter to Ashcroft about Dmitry. I'll give more details in a few minutes. Point here is that one or two people can do quite a lot. From sonjat at cs.unm.edu Fri Jul 20 13:18:04 2001 From: sonjat at cs.unm.edu (Sonja V. Tideman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: hello, That is great news, but I am also afraid of the price we would pay to cancel it. I am also afraid of canceling an action when nothing has changed (he is still in prison). Perhaps a better solution would be to try to move the focus of the demonstrations away from Adobe and onto the federal government (who have not done anything to suggest they would not do this again if another company asked them to. After all, is it enough to get Adobe's assurance they will not be throwing another innocent programmer in jail, or should we try to get the government's assurance? Sonja On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > Congratulations folks! > > The pressure we all have put on Adobe has resulted > in an agreement to meet with representatives from > the Electronic Frontier Foundation on this Monday > morning, July 23. > > For that reason, EFF has decided to: > > PUT THE JULY 23 PROTEST ON HOLD > > Please help us act in good faith and postpone the > protest until we have a chance to negotiate with > Adobe. > > Of course, we can always rekindle the protest if > Adobe does not agree to withdraw their complaint > to the US Department of Justice regarding Dmitry > Sklyarov and to refuse to pursue further prosecutions > under the DMCA for cases that should be prevented > under fair use provisions of US copyright law. > > And also, if the US Attorney's office insists > on prosecuting Dmitry without a current complaint > from Adobe, then we will continue protests directed > at them rather than at Adobe. > > If you still feel that you have to protest on > Monday, you are of course free to do so. > However, it may be a more effective use of > our collective energies to act in a coordinated > way to get Dmitry out of jail. > > I am writing a media release to this effect as > soon as I sent this email to you... wanted you > all to know first. > > Free Dmitry, > > Will Doherty > Online Activist / Media Relations > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > Web http://www.eff.org > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > ------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From sklyarov at lethe.com Fri Jul 20 13:17:43 2001 From: sklyarov at lethe.com (Kevin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] MSNBC Article Message-ID: <027401c11159$08f9ba70$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> Forgive me if this has already been posted here, but there is an excellent article on MSNBC (imagine that) about this. Make sure you go to the bottom of the page and vote for the article to increase its visibility. http://www.msnbc.com/news/602444.asp?0si=-&cp1=1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/6549b292/attachment.htm From macki at 2600.com Fri Jul 20 13:23:19 2001 From: macki at 2600.com (Macki) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Ashcroft leafletting - success! Message-ID: <20010720132319.omerta.b1f2fed92a6d.19118.78db11d7bad2.6144@rotten.com> Hi all, just got back from Verisign where John Ashcroft was speaking. I and another activist managed to park in the Verisign lot, and get badges with all of the other press people, but at the last minute they re-questioned us as to our intent and sniffed out our advocacy role (press only) and gave us the boot. We hung out across the street until reporters started to file out, then we started handing out copies of the EFF's open letter to Ashcroft (http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010720_letter_2_ashcroft.html). Once we got kicked off their property, we hung out on either side of the only driveway, handing them to reporters as they left. All in all, very successful. From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 13:23:12 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Meet TODAY In-Reply-To: <87puavweqf.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720132232.020491c0@pop3.norton.antivirus> We were not able to get the right players into the room today or over the weekend. Believe me, we tried that. At 01:02 PM 7/20/2001 -0700, Klepht wrote: >Will, > >Why don't we continue to plan for events on Monday, and you meet TODAY >with Adobe? Or over the weekend? If they give satisfactory answers, >then we call off the protests. Otherwise, continue as planned. > >~Klepht > >-- >klepht@eleutheria.org >http://www.eleutheria.org/ From keith at webwalla.com Fri Jul 20 13:24:15 2001 From: keith at webwalla.com (Keith Lamont) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Any action in Chicago Message-ID: Hi, Just got here. Anything planned for Chicago? Keith From jono at microshaft.org Fri Jul 20 13:24:37 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus>; from wild@eff.org on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 12:51:12PM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20010720132437.E71604@networkcommand.com> Please explain the issues below. Company files complaint. Researcher is arrested. Protest organized. Company gives in. Saves face. Government continues action against researcher. This outcome allows Adobe to save face, not get TV cameras, etc in front of their building and generally not look like the bad guy. This also tells other companies they can file complaint, hand off the FBI and withdraw to prevent bad PR. The issue is the DMCA and always has been. I hope you guys get this figured out... On 20-Jul-2001, Will Doherty wrote: > Congratulations folks! > > The pressure we all have put on Adobe has resulted > in an agreement to meet with representatives from > the Electronic Frontier Foundation on this Monday > morning, July 23. > > For that reason, EFF has decided to: > > PUT THE JULY 23 PROTEST ON HOLD > > Please help us act in good faith and postpone the > protest until we have a chance to negotiate with > Adobe. > > Of course, we can always rekindle the protest if > Adobe does not agree to withdraw their complaint > to the US Department of Justice regarding Dmitry > Sklyarov and to refuse to pursue further prosecutions > under the DMCA for cases that should be prevented > under fair use provisions of US copyright law. > > And also, if the US Attorney's office insists > on prosecuting Dmitry without a current complaint > from Adobe, then we will continue protests directed > at them rather than at Adobe. > > If you still feel that you have to protest on > Monday, you are of course free to do so. > However, it may be a more effective use of > our collective energies to act in a coordinated > way to get Dmitry out of jail. > > I am writing a media release to this effect as > soon as I sent this email to you... wanted you > all to know first. > > Free Dmitry, > > Will Doherty > Online Activist / Media Relations > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > Web http://www.eff.org > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > ------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/cf2b3617/attachment.pgp From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 20 13:24:58 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <877kx3wdph.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "WD" == Will Doherty writes: WD> Adobe only agreed to meet with us if we would put the Monday, WD> July 23 protest on hold. There's 72 hours left before the protests. Get them to meet with you before Monday! I'll back out if they give some positive results. Otherwise, I'm very remiss about not having an event at Adobe on Monday. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From sonjat at cs.unm.edu Fri Jul 20 13:26:11 2001 From: sonjat at cs.unm.edu (Sonja V. Tideman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: What if we shifted the focus from Adobe to the US governement (and agreed to mention Adobe as little as possible in the protest)? Sonja On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > Adobe only agreed to meet with us if we would put > the Monday, July 23 protest on hold. > > We would like to believe that Adobe will be > negotiating in earnest and it is not EFF's > style to engage in punitive protests when > there is hope of a negotiated solution. > > If some folks go ahead and protest and antagonize > Adobe, that may escalate the situation, > preclude Adobe withdrawing their complaint, > and keep Dmitry in jail. > > I think should treat this as a partial victory... > we have succeeded in getting to the table in > a big way with Adobe! Let's use that leverage > to get some concrete action. And if they don't > budge, we can still protest. Those who offered > the favors once hopefully did so because we > have an important cause here, and will likely > do so again. > > I am glad to hear everyone's comments about > this and look forward to working together to > get Dmitry out of jail and end further unfair > DMCA prosecutions. > > Free Dmitry, > > Will Doherty > Online Activist / Media Relations > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > Web http://www.eff.org > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > ------- > > At 01:00 PM 7/20/2001 -0700, Klepht wrote: > > >>>>> "WD" == Will Doherty writes: > > > > WD> Congratulations folks! The pressure we all have put on Adobe > > WD> has resulted in an agreement to meet with representatives from > > WD> the Electronic Frontier Foundation on this Monday morning, > > WD> July 23. > > > > WD> For that reason, EFF has decided to: > > > > WD> PUT THE JULY 23 PROTEST ON HOLD > > > >Will, > > > >We are NOT going to be able to get this kind of momentum behind us > >again if we pull the plug now. It's just NOT going to happen. > > > >So PLEASE be VERY confident that there will be CONCRETE > >results. > > > >Frankly, this is the best of all worlds for Adobe: they get a couple > >of eggheads to come into the office, they blow smoke up your asses for > >a couple of hours, and then show you the door. > > > >In other words, you're neutralized. Everyone who's pulled in favors to > >get this event publicized will be unable to make that happen again. I > >know I will. > > > >It seems like a REALLY BAD idea to me, so I hope you have a better > >feeling about the meeting than I do. If I were you, I'd wait until > >AFTER Monday to meet with Adobe. But that's just me. > > > >~Klepht > > > >-- > >klepht@eleutheria.org > >http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 20 13:26:59 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Xcott Craver wrote: > On 20 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > > > WD> PUT THE JULY 23 PROTEST ON HOLD > > > > Will, > > > > We are NOT going to be able to get this kind of momentum behind us > > again if we pull the plug now. It's just NOT going to happen. > > So PLEASE be VERY confident that there will be CONCRETE results. > > Wouldn't it be advantageous to EFF if people gathered in SJ > anyway, in preparation for a protest, contingent upon the > outcome of the meeting earlier that morning? > > Could people are ready to protest outside be a bargaining chip? > > -S We meet and protest anyway, even if Dmitry is out, free and clear, and given a gold loving cup by Adobe. He was put in jail for pointing out that certain advertising claims of Adobe are false. And Adobe, the Ministry of Infotainment and Right Thinking, and Congress put Dmitry in jail. If we are drinking from the loving cup, it will be a VICTORY PROTEST! oo--JS. From esper at sherohman.org Fri Jul 20 13:26:25 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus>; from wild@eff.org on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 01:16:05PM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <87u207wetx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20010720152625.I27798@sherohman.org> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 01:16:05PM -0700, Will Doherty wrote: > Those who offered > the favors once hopefully did so because we > have an important cause here, and will likely > do so again. Will they? Or will they think we're just crying "wolf"? -- With the arrest of Dimitry Sklyarov it has become apparent that it is not safe for non US software engineers to visit the United States. - Alan Cox From dredd at megacity.org Fri Jul 20 13:26:39 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: At 1:16 PM -0700 7/20/01, Will Doherty wrote: >Adobe only agreed to meet with us if we would put >the Monday, July 23 protest on hold. Proof positive they fear the bad press. >We would like to believe that Adobe will be >negotiating in earnest and it is not EFF's >style to engage in punitive protests when >there is hope of a negotiated solution. Have them meet you over the weekend. If that cuts into some Adobe executive's tee-time, that's his/her business. >If some folks go ahead and protest and antagonize >Adobe, that may escalate the situation, >preclude Adobe withdrawing their complaint, >and keep Dmitry in jail. Unlikely. More likely is that they'll cave FASTER, because they've already shown you their cards, by showing how scared they are of the bad press that will come out against them. >I think should treat this as a partial victory... >we have succeeded in getting to the table in >a big way with Adobe! Let's use that leverage >to get some concrete action. Adobe is incapable of concrete action. They can ONLY at this point offer "maybes" because they are not the deciding factor. The Feds are. > And if they don't >budge, we can still protest. Those who offered >the favors once hopefully did so because we >have an important cause here, and will likely >do so again. Media folks don't like getting things put on their calendars and then rescheduled. You get worse turnout the "makeup day" than you would have on the original. >I am glad to hear everyone's comments about >this and look forward to working together to >get Dmitry out of jail and end further unfair >DMCA prosecutions. I vote for "They've got a little less than 72 hours to figure something out, that's a lot of time to send a negotiator to the table, now, isn't it?" Them making you wait until next week to talk is completely a stall tactic to avert the event scheduled because they know the bad PR in an already weak tech market will hurt them immeasurably. D -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From dredd at megacity.org Fri Jul 20 13:28:55 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Meet TODAY In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720132232.020491c0@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720132232.020491c0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Then they lose. If they're not willing to make the steps necessary, that's their business. There is nowhere in the world that they couldn't have someone there by Sunday by jet, if they WANTED to. D At 1:23 PM -0700 7/20/01, Will Doherty wrote: >We were not able to get the right players into the room >today or over the weekend. Believe me, we tried that. > >>Why don't we continue to plan for events on Monday, and you meet TODAY >>with Adobe? Or over the weekend? If they give satisfactory answers, >>then we call off the protests. Otherwise, continue as planned. -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 13:29:36 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <002001c11157$26dc8e20$0300a8c0@speakeasy.org> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720132418.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> I absolutely agree with you about keeping the momentum going... this is NOT about caving. This is about sane negotiation to get a guy out of jail. Please take a moment to really consider what the consequences can be. And of course, we will still protest until the government no longer agrees to prosecute such anti-fair-use cases under the DMCA or until the DMCA is amended or judicially restricted so that such prosecutions can no longer occur. Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 04:04 PM 7/20/2001 -0400, Keith A. Glass (home email) wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net >[mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Will Doherty >Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 3:51 PM >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on >Hold >Importance: High > > > >Congratulations folks! > >No congratulations until Dmitri is free and on a jet, in >the air, outside of US jurisdiction... > > >The pressure we all have put on Adobe has resulted > >in an agreement to meet with representatives from > >the Electronic Frontier Foundation on this Monday > >morning, July 23. > >That's nice. > > >For that reason, EFF has decided to: > > >PUT THE JULY 23 PROTEST ON HOLD > >Methinks EFF doesn't want my Tax Refund. . . > > >Please help us act in good faith and postpone the > >protest until we have a chance to negotiate with > >Adobe. > >I'm sorry, but you DON'T cave in a situation like this, >if we're protesting with media coverage, that's all the >more leverage we have in negotiations. > >**IF** Adobe had acted honorably, we could show good faith. >But **WE** haven't done anything wrong: ADOBE is the party >who needs to show good faith FIRST. . . > >And remember, we need to keep the momentum building, because >getting Dmitri freed is just the FIRST part of this: getting >DMCA overturned is the full goal. . . From jrichard at cubicle.net Fri Jul 20 13:29:58 2001 From: jrichard at cubicle.net (Josh Richards) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus>; from wild@eff.org on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 01:16:05PM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <87u207wetx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20010720132958.J3637@cubicle.net> * Will Doherty [20010720 13:21]: > Adobe only agreed to meet with us if we would put > the Monday, July 23 protest on hold. > > We would like to believe that Adobe will be > negotiating in earnest and it is not EFF's > style to engage in punitive protests when > there is hope of a negotiated solution. > > If some folks go ahead and protest and antagonize > Adobe, that may escalate the situation, > preclude Adobe withdrawing their complaint, > and keep Dmitry in jail. I respectfully completely disagree with you. If Adobe is agreeing to talks in good faith because they've gotten the message than a little extra push on Monday shouldn't hurt the negotiations at all. 'sides, like I said previously, even with Adobe on our side Sklyarov is still in jail and we've still got the DMCA. I really don't see what has changed. We've *not* met our objective, only made another (hopeful) step in the right direction. > I think should treat this as a partial victory... > we have succeeded in getting to the table in > a big way with Adobe! Let's use that leverage > to get some concrete action. And if they don't > budge, we can still protest. Those who offered > the favors once hopefully did so because we > have an important cause here, and will likely > do so again. In an ideal world I'd agree. Not everyone is so committed as many of the people on this list or whom are within the EFF. While I'd like to think I'd show up even things were re-scheduled, I'd have a hard time stating that it wouldn't effect other people's commitment levels. Regardless I'm not arguing against re-scheduling/holding off if there was a good reason -- I'm arguing that there isn't as good of a reason to do so as you seem to believe. -jr ---- Josh Richards [JTR38/JR539-ARIN] Geek Research, LLC - San Luis Obispo, CA - KG6CYK - IP/Unix/telecom/knowledge/coffee/security/crypto/business/geek From eric at tully.com Fri Jul 20 13:31:39 2001 From: eric at tully.com (Eric Tully) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <87u207wetx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010720163139.0099b600@208.231.13.113> At 01:16 PM 7/20/01 -0700, Will Doherty wrote: >Adobe only agreed to meet with us if we would put >the Monday, July 23 protest on hold. Well, that's a good reason to call the protests off. But that's ONE reason to call them off and I've heard about six good reasons to continue with them on Monday. (Loss of credibility, loss of momentum, possible smoke in the ass blowing from Adobe negotiators, Non-good faith action on Adobe's part by filing a complaint in the first place, not cancelling a real action on the basis of a *promise* of mere *talks*, and not everyone was party to those negotiations you described.) Adobe has already taken a very negative action by filing charges against Sklyarov. Our action was going to be a response to theirs. The only thing that should stop our action would be for them to reverse theirs. They read this list, it's not like they don't understand our position already. They're just greedy. I would expect a company concerned about their image to offer "talks" in exchange for calling off protests. Call me paranoid but I can easily imagine some executive saying, "Sure, we'll meet with them if they call off the protest. Hell, it's just talk anyway. Anything to break their momentum and their credibility." - Eric From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Jul 20 13:33:58 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > Adobe only agreed to meet with us if we would put > the Monday, July 23 protest on hold. Ah. Well, honestly, just how much (irreversible) committment is there for Monday, after all? Have people really pulled strings that can't be unpulled? Bought plane tickets, got permits, or begged for that day off? Any specific penalty to moving the protest, other than loss of momenum? Would it be possible to declare a specific date later next week, for which we can plan in the case that Adobe does not agree to something substantial? Just so people who need to make arrangements can do so? I think that as long as we have certainty about dates and times as early as possible we could avert a loss of "momentum." -S From paul at paultopia.net Fri Jul 20 13:35:35 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] an opportunity for unity Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720143327.00e687a0@mail.paultopia.net> A thought. This provides probably the greatest opportunity we will ever see for unity and solidarity between the cyber-activist community (free speech, anti-ip, etc.) and the anti-globalization, consumer rights, environmental rights activists. Everyone is finally begining to see that these are really _the same issue_ -- that when corporations are given huge concentrations of wealth and power it destroys free speech AND the environment, fair use AND consumer safety protections. How do we build on this, have alliance for both causes? -Paul -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From zbrown at tumbelrings.org Fri Jul 20 13:39:11 2001 From: zbrown at tumbelrings.org (Zack Brown) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus>; from Will Doherty on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 01:16:05PM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <87u207wetx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20010720133911.A17502@renegade> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 01:16:05PM -0700, Will Doherty wrote: > Adobe only agreed to meet with us if we would put > the Monday, July 23 protest on hold. This is a big warning flag. Adobe has everything to gain by breaking the political momentum currently building against it. They don't have to make any deals if they can split us apart with subterfuge. No. We shouldn't pull the plug on any political activity until we see *real* results from Adobe. Such as dropping their complaint against Sklyarov. If they refuse to meet with us, fine. If they are sincere about altering their course, they won't be making any counter demands. Their offer is a typical ploy to nip this movement in the bud. Do NOT fall for it. Push the Monday protest even harder, now that we've made the blunder of saying it may not happen. If we lose political momentum, Dmitry will rot in jail. Be well, Zack > > We would like to believe that Adobe will be > negotiating in earnest and it is not EFF's > style to engage in punitive protests when > there is hope of a negotiated solution. > > If some folks go ahead and protest and antagonize > Adobe, that may escalate the situation, > preclude Adobe withdrawing their complaint, > and keep Dmitry in jail. > > I think should treat this as a partial victory... > we have succeeded in getting to the table in > a big way with Adobe! Let's use that leverage > to get some concrete action. And if they don't > budge, we can still protest. Those who offered > the favors once hopefully did so because we > have an important cause here, and will likely > do so again. > > I am glad to hear everyone's comments about > this and look forward to working together to > get Dmitry out of jail and end further unfair > DMCA prosecutions. > > Free Dmitry, > > Will Doherty > Online Activist / Media Relations > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > Web http://www.eff.org > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > ------- > > At 01:00 PM 7/20/2001 -0700, Klepht wrote: > > >>>>> "WD" == Will Doherty writes: > > > > WD> Congratulations folks! The pressure we all have put on Adobe > > WD> has resulted in an agreement to meet with representatives from > > WD> the Electronic Frontier Foundation on this Monday morning, > > WD> July 23. > > > > WD> For that reason, EFF has decided to: > > > > WD> PUT THE JULY 23 PROTEST ON HOLD > > > >Will, > > > >We are NOT going to be able to get this kind of momentum behind us > >again if we pull the plug now. It's just NOT going to happen. > > > >So PLEASE be VERY confident that there will be CONCRETE > >results. > > > >Frankly, this is the best of all worlds for Adobe: they get a couple > >of eggheads to come into the office, they blow smoke up your asses for > >a couple of hours, and then show you the door. > > > >In other words, you're neutralized. Everyone who's pulled in favors to > >get this event publicized will be unable to make that happen again. I > >know I will. > > > >It seems like a REALLY BAD idea to me, so I hope you have a better > >feeling about the meeting than I do. If I were you, I'd wait until > >AFTER Monday to meet with Adobe. But that's just me. > > > >~Klepht > > > >-- > >klepht@eleutheria.org > >http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- -- Zack Brown From jrichard at cubicle.net Fri Jul 20 13:40:02 2001 From: jrichard at cubicle.net (Josh Richards) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: ; from sacraver@EE.Princeton.EDU on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 04:33:58PM -0400 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20010720134002.K3637@cubicle.net> * Xcott Craver [20010720 13:35]: > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > > > Adobe only agreed to meet with us if we would put > > the Monday, July 23 protest on hold. > > Ah. [..] > > Would it be possible to declare a specific date later next week, > for which we can plan in the case that Adobe does not agree to > something substantial? Just so people who need to make > arrangements can do so? [..] Agree to what? Dropping their cooperation with the US Attorney's office? Great, but Adobe doesn't decide what occurs with the law. Adobe is just a witness at this point, albeit an important one. Without their support this case may become weak but there is no guarantee it gets pulled and the DMCA definitely isn't going away just because Adobe changes their mind and denounces it. I'm happy that Adobe is interested in talking but I really don't see what has changed. -jr ---- Josh Richards [JTR38/JR539-ARIN] Geek Research, LLC - San Luis Obispo, CA - KG6CYK - IP/Unix/telecom/knowledge/coffee/security/crypto/business/geek From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 20 13:40:55 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Sonja V. Tideman wrote: > > What if we shifted the focus from Adobe to the US governement (and agreed > to mention Adobe as little as possible in the protest)? > > Sonja No. We are happy to meet with Adobe, but naturally our protest continues. Dmitry still sits in jail, and Adobe put him there. After the DMCA is repealed, and Dmitry and Elcomsoft are made whole, perhaps we might enter into meetings aimed at ending the boycott. oo--JS. From andrea at gravitt.org Fri Jul 20 13:40:52 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold Message-ID: <029a01c1115c$47bc9810$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> I agree with those who believe this is a stall tactic to diffuse the bad press. There are a lot of people worked up about this and ready to move. That will not happen again for "Protest, Part Two." Boy, if I had decided to buy that ticket to the west coast after all, I would be mighty pissed. If it is absolutely necessary, what about pushing the federal angle and moving the locations? Maybe then you can even get Adobe to support the protest. I don't like it, but it is a possible tactic. We will not get any attention at all, forget the press, after "Sorry, false alarm." Yawn. Andrea From pablos at kadrevis.com Fri Jul 20 13:41:32 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Demonstration Rallies Continue In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <764645.995636492@[10.0.1.220]> The EFF has decided to withdraw from the demonstration rallies because they have scheduled a meeting with Adobe on Monday. This is only a minor victory and does not warrant backing down in our support of Freeing Dmitry. These demonstration rallies are already organized and have the momentum required to make them a success. We'll continue with our plans to rally in support of Dmitry. If Adobe is successful in freeing Dmitry, we'll end the boycott. Much thanks to the EFF for their efforts, we'll go our separate ways in supporting Dmitry from here on out. Thanks, Pablos Kadrevis Boycott Adobe From paul at paultopia.net Fri Jul 20 13:40:20 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:36 2005 Subject: DON'T HOLD OFF THE PROTESTS Re: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720143718.00e6b100@mail.paultopia.net> DANGER Will: Get a Friday (today) or Saturday meeting, that way protests can still go on as planned if they're just stonewalling. Old corporate tactic to throw a monkey wrench into organizing -- give 'em a meeting, make 'em think it'll be negotiation, when it'll really just be a "therapy session" (ie. they tell you how sorry they are you feel that way, and why there's nothing they can do -- quite likely here, when there really is nothing, as a technical legal matter, that Adobe can do), forestall actions, etc. etc. This is a well-known corporate trick. Don't call off the protests. Make 'em meet sooner and continue protest planning until we get real results, not just a therapy session. -Paul At 01:51 PM 7/20/01, Will Doherty wrote: >Congratulations folks! > >The pressure we all have put on Adobe has resulted >in an agreement to meet with representatives from >the Electronic Frontier Foundation on this Monday >morning, July 23. > >For that reason, EFF has decided to: > >PUT THE JULY 23 PROTEST ON HOLD > >Please help us act in good faith and postpone the >protest until we have a chance to negotiate with >Adobe. > >Of course, we can always rekindle the protest if >Adobe does not agree to withdraw their complaint >to the US Department of Justice regarding Dmitry >Sklyarov and to refuse to pursue further prosecutions >under the DMCA for cases that should be prevented >under fair use provisions of US copyright law. > >And also, if the US Attorney's office insists >on prosecuting Dmitry without a current complaint >from Adobe, then we will continue protests directed >at them rather than at Adobe. > >If you still feel that you have to protest on >Monday, you are of course free to do so. >However, it may be a more effective use of >our collective energies to act in a coordinated >way to get Dmitry out of jail. > >I am writing a media release to this effect as >soon as I sent this email to you... wanted you >all to know first. > >Free Dmitry, > >Will Doherty >Online Activist / Media Relations >Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) >Web http://www.eff.org > >Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age >------- > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Jul 20 13:41:40 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010720163139.0099b600@208.231.13.113> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Eric Tully wrote: > But that's ONE reason to call them off and I've heard about six good > reasons to continue with them on Monday. (Loss of credibility, loss of > momentum, possible smoke in the ass blowing from Adobe negotiators, > Non-good faith action on Adobe's part by filing a complaint in the first > place, not cancelling a real action on the basis of a *promise* of mere > *talks*, and not everyone was party to those negotiations you described.) Let me make a suggestion. We could set a concrete date ASAP for later in the week, spread that information as quickly as possible to news sites. Rather than postponing indefinitely, we postpone _definitely_. This prevents confusion, uncertainty, and loss of credibility. Then, if the talks go very well, if Adobe does a 180, we can think about cancelling that event. I think it could still be early enough to do something like this without losing steam. Thoughts? > - Eric -S From robertl1 at home.com Fri Jul 20 13:44:13 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! So what! In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720133945.020d76c0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> >>Adobe only agreed to meet with us if we would put >>the Monday, July 23 protest on hold. At 01:26 PM 7/20/01 -0700, Derek Balling replied: >Proof positive they fear the bad press. Greed. We will go ahead with our action at OSCON in San Diego. This is far too small a concession to stop now that the momentum is building. Shame on Adobe! Free Dmitry now. Just say No to the DMCA. Forward, Bob La Quey From dmarti at zgp.org Fri Jul 20 13:43:22 2001 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010720134322.L18250@zgp.org> I plan to be at the snake, in downtown San Jose at the corner of S. Market St. and W. San Carlos St., at 11:00 AM. (If anyone wants to talk with me Monday morning, see me there or use my cell phone at 650-743-8035.) The snake is not within line of sight of Adobe HQ. Going to downtown San Jose gives me many fascinating things to do. From don.wills at dbcsoftware.com Fri Jul 20 13:43:27 2001 From: don.wills at dbcsoftware.com (Don Wills) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Hello again, At 1:16 PM -0700 7/20/01, Will Doherty wrote: >Adobe only agreed to meet with us if we would put >the Monday, July 23 protest on hold. > ... I've got a bridge to sell you... From pablos at kadrevis.com Fri Jul 20 13:47:16 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boycott Adobe Site needs Rally Page Message-ID: <785293.995636836@[10.0.1.220]> I need somebody to volunteer to create a page for the Boycott Adobe website that unifies rally information. We need links to each rally announcement page, and date/time/location summary information. If a page like this exists somewhere else, we can use that as a starting point. Thanks, pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From jono at microshaft.org Fri Jul 20 13:48:50 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <20010720132958.J3637@cubicle.net>; from jrichard@cubicle.net on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 01:29:58PM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <87u207wetx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus> <20010720132958.J3637@cubicle.net> Message-ID: <20010720134850.A73142@networkcommand.com> How about you all show up and are silent during the talks? Even just sitting down. Wait for the talks to conclude and find out what to do next? Kind of like silent strength... Adobe obviously want to save face. That is why they said call off the dogs and we will talk. Well, compromise. Bring the dogs, just keep them quite until you need them, if you do... It seems like the other protests are directed at government offices. That doesn't effect Adobe so couldn't those protests continue? On 20-Jul-2001, Josh Richards wrote: > * Will Doherty [20010720 13:21]: > > Adobe only agreed to meet with us if we would put > > the Monday, July 23 protest on hold. > > > > We would like to believe that Adobe will be > > negotiating in earnest and it is not EFF's > > style to engage in punitive protests when > > there is hope of a negotiated solution. > > > > If some folks go ahead and protest and antagonize > > Adobe, that may escalate the situation, > > preclude Adobe withdrawing their complaint, > > and keep Dmitry in jail. > > I respectfully completely disagree with you. If Adobe is agreeing to talks > in good faith because they've gotten the message than a little extra push > on Monday shouldn't hurt the negotiations at all. 'sides, like I said > previously, even with Adobe on our side Sklyarov is still in jail and we've > still got the DMCA. I really don't see what has changed. We've *not* met > our objective, only made another (hopeful) step in the right direction. > > > I think should treat this as a partial victory... > > we have succeeded in getting to the table in > > a big way with Adobe! Let's use that leverage > > to get some concrete action. And if they don't > > budge, we can still protest. Those who offered > > the favors once hopefully did so because we > > have an important cause here, and will likely > > do so again. > > In an ideal world I'd agree. Not everyone is so committed as many of the > people on this list or whom are within the EFF. While I'd like to think > I'd show up even things were re-scheduled, I'd have a hard time stating > that it wouldn't effect other people's commitment levels. > > Regardless I'm not arguing against re-scheduling/holding off if there was a > good reason -- I'm arguing that there isn't as good of a reason to do so as > you seem to believe. > > -jr > > ---- > Josh Richards [JTR38/JR539-ARIN] > Geek Research, LLC - San Luis Obispo, CA - > KG6CYK - IP/Unix/telecom/knowledge/coffee/security/crypto/business/geek > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/02327c0d/attachment.pgp From paul at paultopia.net Fri Jul 20 13:45:34 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Future Credibility In-Reply-To: <87lmljwe9y.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720144400.00e6e2c0@mail.paultopia.net> I agree _completely_. Cancelling Monday would be VERY, VERY, VERY BAD. Trust us on this. I give about 400-1 odds that this meeting with Adobe will be nothing more than a therapy session. The protests go on as planned. -Paul At 02:12 PM 7/20/01, you wrote: >Cancelling Monday's events is going to put egg on all inforights >activists' face for future demonstrations. Can you imagine trying to >convince people to come to another event in the future? "Oh, SURE >you're going to have a demonstration... just like at the Free Dmitry >event. Whatever, dude." > >Media, activist organizations, computer user groups, etc., etc. aren't >going to take us as seriously in the future if we cancel now. > >So, again, there's a BIG PRICE being paid here. > >~Klepht > >-- >klepht@eleutheria.org >http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Jul 20 13:51:11 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720132418.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > This is about sane negotiation to get a guy out of jail. I agree. As much as we want to protest and raise public awareness, this guy is in the slammer and working to get him out is a #1 priority. What I disagree with is putting the protest on hold in an indefinite sense. Let's have something concrete quickly, a clear date, and plan for it by default. Better to tell /., et al, that the protest is moved rather than in limbo. Also, consider that if we plan a protest date for a few days later we will have that much more time to get people involved. -S From kris at firstworld.net Fri Jul 20 13:50:01 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <87u207wetx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010720134029.01485788@pop.firstworld.net> At 01:16 PM 7/20/2001 -0700, Will Doherty wrote: >Adobe only agreed to meet with us if we would put >the Monday, July 23 protest on hold. This is a trap. They'll get you to call off the protest and then give you the run around and make no commitments at the meeting. You're being out foxed and you'll feel very foolish Monday afternoon. Don't forget what happen to Chamberlain. >We would like to believe that Adobe will be >negotiating in earnest and it is not EFF's >style to engage in punitive protests when >there is hope of a negotiated solution. Ha. They have no interested in negotiating, they just what to spin the story. Kris From paul at paultopia.net Fri Jul 20 13:52:12 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <87u207wetx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720144717.00e71370@mail.paultopia.net> NO Will, NO. You're being SNOWED. Ask ANYONE who knows anything about grassroots organizing against corporate power what to do if the corporation offers to meet on the eve of an action. They're trying to murder our credibility, they're trying to kill the momentum for protest action by offering a meeting, at which they will say "there's nothing we can do, it's in the government's hands now, but we feel your pain. You have to BUILD POWER before you can NEGOTIATE WITH THE POWERFUL. Basic maxim of organizing. Please don't get tricked by this kindergarten tactic. We have no power yet. We have nothing to offer. We have to get power before we can negotiate. Otherwise all we'll get is therapy. -Paul At 02:16 PM 7/20/01, you wrote: >Adobe only agreed to meet with us if we would put >the Monday, July 23 protest on hold. > >We would like to believe that Adobe will be >negotiating in earnest and it is not EFF's >style to engage in punitive protests when >there is hope of a negotiated solution. > >If some folks go ahead and protest and antagonize >Adobe, that may escalate the situation, >preclude Adobe withdrawing their complaint, >and keep Dmitry in jail. > >I think should treat this as a partial victory... >we have succeeded in getting to the table in >a big way with Adobe! Let's use that leverage >to get some concrete action. And if they don't >budge, we can still protest. Those who offered >the favors once hopefully did so because we >have an important cause here, and will likely >do so again. > >I am glad to hear everyone's comments about >this and look forward to working together to >get Dmitry out of jail and end further unfair >DMCA prosecutions. > >Free Dmitry, > >Will Doherty >Online Activist / Media Relations >Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) >Web http://www.eff.org > >Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age >------- > >At 01:00 PM 7/20/2001 -0700, Klepht wrote: >> >>>>> "WD" == Will Doherty writes: >> >> WD> Congratulations folks! The pressure we all have put on Adobe >> WD> has resulted in an agreement to meet with representatives from >> WD> the Electronic Frontier Foundation on this Monday morning, >> WD> July 23. >> >> WD> For that reason, EFF has decided to: >> >> WD> PUT THE JULY 23 PROTEST ON HOLD >> >>Will, >> >>We are NOT going to be able to get this kind of momentum behind us >>again if we pull the plug now. It's just NOT going to happen. >> >>So PLEASE be VERY confident that there will be CONCRETE >>results. >> >>Frankly, this is the best of all worlds for Adobe: they get a couple >>of eggheads to come into the office, they blow smoke up your asses for >>a couple of hours, and then show you the door. >> >>In other words, you're neutralized. Everyone who's pulled in favors to >>get this event publicized will be unable to make that happen again. I >>know I will. >> >>It seems like a REALLY BAD idea to me, so I hope you have a better >>feeling about the meeting than I do. If I were you, I'd wait until >>AFTER Monday to meet with Adobe. But that's just me. >> >>~Klepht >> >>-- >>klepht@eleutheria.org >>http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 20 13:54:19 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <029a01c1115c$47bc9810$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> References: <029a01c1115c$47bc9810$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> Message-ID: <87u207uxs4.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "A" == Andrea writes: A> I agree with those who believe this is a stall tactic to A> diffuse the bad press. There are a lot of people worked up A> about this and ready to move. So fuck this cancelled protest thing. Let's ROLL. Monday, July 23d. Same Bat-time, same Bat-channel. Adobe has plenty of time before then to meet with the EFF and make concrete concessions. I'll see folks in San Hoser. FREE Dmitry, ~Klepht P.S. It might be a good idea for someone (boycottadobe.com?) to mirror the event info on the EFF site before it goes down. -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From eric at mostly.harmless.org Fri Jul 20 13:55:23 2001 From: eric at mostly.harmless.org (Eric Rachner) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Any parlay with Adobe will be more productive if we negotiate from a strong position. Wavering and postponing will undermine the protest effort, and our negotiating position in turn. Without a strong negotiating position, the outcome is guaranteed to be less optimal. At the same time, Adobe has offered to come to the table with us, and we cannot decline the invitation to settle our differences. We must be prepared to protest at the originally scheduled date and time. We should prepare to protest the DMCA and the actions of the government, and, should negotiations not result in a favorable outcome, Adobe. If Adobe is amenable to withdrawing their complaint, then we can leave the "Boycott Adobe" picket signs under wraps, and focus on the message, "Free Dmitry, Repeal the DMCA." - Eric On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Sonja V. Tideman wrote: > > What if we shifted the focus from Adobe to the US governement (and agreed > to mention Adobe as little as possible in the protest)? > > Sonja > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > > > Adobe only agreed to meet with us if we would put > > the Monday, July 23 protest on hold. > > > > We would like to believe that Adobe will be > > negotiating in earnest and it is not EFF's > > style to engage in punitive protests when > > there is hope of a negotiated solution. > > > > If some folks go ahead and protest and antagonize > > Adobe, that may escalate the situation, > > preclude Adobe withdrawing their complaint, > > and keep Dmitry in jail. > > > > I think should treat this as a partial victory... > > we have succeeded in getting to the table in > > a big way with Adobe! Let's use that leverage > > to get some concrete action. And if they don't > > budge, we can still protest. Those who offered > > the favors once hopefully did so because we > > have an important cause here, and will likely > > do so again. > > > > I am glad to hear everyone's comments about > > this and look forward to working together to > > get Dmitry out of jail and end further unfair > > DMCA prosecutions. > > > > Free Dmitry, > > > > Will Doherty > > Online Activist / Media Relations > > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > > Web http://www.eff.org > > > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > > ------- > > > > At 01:00 PM 7/20/2001 -0700, Klepht wrote: > > > >>>>> "WD" == Will Doherty writes: > > > > > > WD> Congratulations folks! The pressure we all have put on Adobe > > > WD> has resulted in an agreement to meet with representatives from > > > WD> the Electronic Frontier Foundation on this Monday morning, > > > WD> July 23. > > > > > > WD> For that reason, EFF has decided to: > > > > > > WD> PUT THE JULY 23 PROTEST ON HOLD > > > > > >Will, > > > > > >We are NOT going to be able to get this kind of momentum behind us > > >again if we pull the plug now. It's just NOT going to happen. > > > > > >So PLEASE be VERY confident that there will be CONCRETE > > >results. > > > > > >Frankly, this is the best of all worlds for Adobe: they get a couple > > >of eggheads to come into the office, they blow smoke up your asses for > > >a couple of hours, and then show you the door. > > > > > >In other words, you're neutralized. Everyone who's pulled in favors to > > >get this event publicized will be unable to make that happen again. I > > >know I will. > > > > > >It seems like a REALLY BAD idea to me, so I hope you have a better > > >feeling about the meeting than I do. If I were you, I'd wait until > > >AFTER Monday to meet with Adobe. But that's just me. > > > > > >~Klepht > > > > > >-- > > >klepht@eleutheria.org > > >http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From mlc67 at columbia.edu Fri Jul 20 13:54:14 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: ; from sacraver@EE.Princeton.EDU on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 04:41:40PM -0400 References: <3.0.5.32.20010720163139.0099b600@208.231.13.113> Message-ID: <20010720135414.A13356@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 04:41:40PM -0400, Xcott Craver wrote: > We could set a concrete date ASAP for later in the week, > spread that information as quickly as possible to news sites. > Rather than postponing indefinitely, we postpone _definitely_. > This prevents confusion, uncertainty, and loss of credibility. Say we pick Thursday. Okay, EFF & Adobe meet on monday, nothing happens. Protest is on for Thursday. Fewer people can make it because people already made arrangements to be there monday, not thursday, but still enough people are ready to go. Then, Wednesday evening Adobe calls EFF, says "We want to meet with you tomorrow morning, but iff you call off the protest." Okay, we reimplement your plan, reschedule for the next Monday. At Thursday meeting, nothing happens, so we are to protest on Monday. Saturday, Adobe calls EFF... Rinse and repeat, until the movement has dwindled. This is not progress for our side. mike -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // cell: +1 (646) 382-7220 // "facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - aldous huxley -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/f0b0bc1d/attachment.pgp From abuch at math.mit.edu Fri Jul 20 13:50:09 2001 From: abuch at math.mit.edu (Anders S. Buch) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: free-sklyarov digest, Vol 1 #40 - 23 msgs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Adobe only agreed to meet with us if we would put > the Monday, July 23 protest on hold. Some people have suggested to hold the meeting today or this weekend. Has this been attempted? I don't see any reason to call off the meeting. Adobe has managed to put Sklyarov in prison and he is still there. Even if he gets out soon, Adobe will still have managed to make people think twice before doing research on Adobe products in the future. We should send a clear message to companies planning to use a strategy similar to Adobe's. Anders Buch From adobedemonstrator at hotmail.com Fri Jul 20 13:55:10 2001 From: adobedemonstrator at hotmail.com (Adobe Demonstrator) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] start planning hours for vigil picket Message-ID: If Adobe wants us to put the one-day protest on hold just because they are willing to meet now though they weren't earlier, then the logical course of action is to gather Monday at the San Jose snake sculpture at 11 a.m. as planned, and wait there for an Adobe announcement. It would be about as easy to march to the U.S. Attorney's office from there, if need be. In the mean time, please, in case things don't work out, those of us in or around San Jose can begin thinking about which business hours over the coming weeks we can allocate to participation in a picket vigil as I described earlier. Instead of a rowdy protest, a vigil should be an orderly picket with a unified appearance, a refusal to engage in any heated dialog with passers-by and officials, and plenty of literature to hand out. That is the kind of thing that makes business people realize that they are in for a full pound picket, not just a penny protest. Ideally, we should have about three people constantly picketing M-F, 9-5. I am working on a simple web-based calendaring application which will allow people to claim 30-minute picket vigil chunks of time, and perhaps the EFF office will help coordinate this. With luck it will not be needed. However, I just got off the phone with the U.S. Attorney's office, and as yet, Adobe has taken no action to at the government to drop the charges. Free Sklyarov! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From shag-sklyarov at booyaka.com Fri Jul 20 13:57:10 2001 From: shag-sklyarov at booyaka.com (Paul Walmsley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > Congratulations folks! > > The pressure we all have put on Adobe has resulted > in an agreement to meet with representatives from > the Electronic Frontier Foundation on this Monday > morning, July 23. > > For that reason, EFF has decided to: > > PUT THE JULY 23 PROTEST ON HOLD Will, I suggest that the protests continue unless you get concrete promises from Adobe in writing that they will withdraw their complaint against Dmitry Sklyarov and that they will not pursue anyone nor support government- or third-party pursuit of people under the 'anti-circumvention' clause of the DMCA. Otherwise, we'll lose the critical momentum that we need to demonstrate on Monday. And for what? If the talks fail to produce concrete progress on the above goals, we all will have lost much, but gained little. - Paul From paul at paultopia.net Fri Jul 20 13:56:31 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720132418.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <002001c11157$26dc8e20$0300a8c0@speakeasy.org> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720145535.00e79660@mail.paultopia.net> Will. You can't negotiate with Adobe to get the guy out of jail. Get the federal prosecutor to the table and then we'll talk about forestalling the protests. -Paul At 02:29 PM 7/20/01, Will Doherty wrote: >I absolutely agree with you about keeping the momentum >going... this is NOT about caving. > >This is about sane negotiation to get a guy out of jail. > >Please take a moment to really consider what the consequences >can be. > >And of course, we will still protest until the government >no longer agrees to prosecute such anti-fair-use cases >under the DMCA or until the DMCA is amended or judicially >restricted so that such prosecutions can no longer occur. > >Will Doherty >Online Activist / Media Relations >Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) >Web http://www.eff.org > >Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age >------- > >At 04:04 PM 7/20/2001 -0400, Keith A. Glass (home email) wrote: > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net >>[mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Will Doherty >>Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 3:51 PM >>To: free-sklyarov@zork.net >>Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on >>Hold >>Importance: High >> >> >> >Congratulations folks! >> >>No congratulations until Dmitri is free and on a jet, in >>the air, outside of US jurisdiction... >> >> >The pressure we all have put on Adobe has resulted >> >in an agreement to meet with representatives from >> >the Electronic Frontier Foundation on this Monday >> >morning, July 23. >> >>That's nice. >> >> >For that reason, EFF has decided to: >> >> >PUT THE JULY 23 PROTEST ON HOLD >> >>Methinks EFF doesn't want my Tax Refund. . . >> >> >Please help us act in good faith and postpone the >> >protest until we have a chance to negotiate with >> >Adobe. >> >>I'm sorry, but you DON'T cave in a situation like this, >>if we're protesting with media coverage, that's all the >>more leverage we have in negotiations. >> >>**IF** Adobe had acted honorably, we could show good faith. >>But **WE** haven't done anything wrong: ADOBE is the party >>who needs to show good faith FIRST. . . >> >>And remember, we need to keep the momentum building, because >>getting Dmitri freed is just the FIRST part of this: getting >>DMCA overturned is the full goal. . . > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 20 13:57:55 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720132418.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > I absolutely agree with you about keeping the momentum > going... this is NOT about caving. > > This is about sane negotiation to get a guy out of jail. Why do you believe Adobe? They are proven liars about their encryption, and they are strong supporters of the DMCA, and they started the action that put Dmitry in jail. No, I am protesting on Monday. > > Please take a moment to really consider what the consequences > can be. There is no tactical advantage to us in stopping Monday's protest, and much advantage to Adobe and the Copyright Englobulators of Earth. Dmitry will stay in jail longer if we back down. And there can be no mistaking, in our eyes, nor Adobe's, nor the media, that if we back down from the Monday protest, we are indeed backing down. Why should we be bought off by nothing? Adobe has not gotten Dmitry out of jail, nor paid him damages, nor helped us repeal the DMCA, which Adobe helped get passed. > > And of course, we will still protest until the government > no longer agrees to prosecute such anti-fair-use cases > under the DMCA or until the DMCA is amended or judicially > restricted so that such prosecutions can no longer occur. > > Will Doherty Backing down is patently the wrong thing to do. oo--JS. From dlefevre at iupui.edu Fri Jul 20 13:58:39 2001 From: dlefevre at iupui.edu (D. C. LeFevre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] free sklyarov items Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720155622.00af8918@imap0.iupui.edu> Hi everyone: I will be at the OSCON on Monday, but being in BFE (Indianapolis) I am unable to receive the protest items in the mail (shirts, etc) before I get out there. Could someone make sure these type of items and signs are available to us at OSCON? Thanks.. -- davey **Free Dmitry Sklyarov!!** D. C. LeFevre Indiana University Purdue University Indianapolis School of Informatics New Media Program http://newmedia.iupui.edu http://informatics.iupui.edu From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Jul 20 14:00:38 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Postponement already on Slashdot In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720144400.00e6e2c0@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: Now a large number of people are going to see that it is on hold. This should be a factor in our deciding what to do, I think. -S From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 20 14:05:42 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <20010720134322.L18250@zgp.org> References: <20010720134322.L18250@zgp.org> Message-ID: <87bsmfux95.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "DM" == Don Marti writes: DM> Going to downtown San Jose gives me many fascinating things to DM> do. DM> From the snake, I could march on Adobe, visit the Tech Museum, DM> walk to a decent Mexican restaurant for a burrito, or catch DM> the light rail home. I'll be there to meet you. If we happen to meet Dmitry Sklyarov, let's take him out for a burrito! ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From LGORKIN at mobius.com Fri Jul 20 14:05:22 2001 From: LGORKIN at mobius.com (Leonid Gorkin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: [nylug-talk] pleeease arrange a monday protest. Message-ID: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F8C@ryentes1.mobius.com> I would say let us still meet on Saturday, as many people do not agree with postponing the protests, and there is a good deal of preasure on EFF to go ahead... I tend to agree with that, for two reasons, first, Adobe most probably just wants to prevent the protests that can bring them bad publicity, second, this is unclear how much they can do even if they withdraw their complain. Let's meet and discuss what we shall do. -----Original Message----- From: Laurence Berland [mailto:stuyman@confusion.net] Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 5:01 PM To: Jay Sulzberger Cc: Jon Bober; nylug-talk@nylug.org; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: RE: [nylug-talk] pleeease arrange a monday protest. For those unaware, EFF is in talks with Adobe, and so the protest is off at least for now... On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Jon Bober wrote: > > > perhaps someone close to the area could actually scout out the building? i > > would be willing to do this if i can leave work early (in the next 20 > > minutes.) would this be worth the effort? is someone closer? i am at > > Washington Square Park right now. > > > > At 11:40 AM 7/20/01 -0700, you wrote: > > I know the block. I believe that the building is simply an office > building. The telephone number does not answer. The site is good for the > protest. We will be able to tell people going to the library about > Adobe's plans to shut down all public libraries. And that Adobe has taken > the first step, by jailing one who simply made it possible for owners of > Adobe jacketed ebooks to make fair use of their own bought and paid for > property. > > oo--JS. > > Laurence Berland http://www.isp.northwestern.edu From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 20 14:07:55 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] start planning hours for vigil picket In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Adobe Demonstrator wrote: > If Adobe wants us to put the one-day protest on hold just because > they are willing to meet now though they weren't earlier, then the > logical course of action is to gather Monday at the San Jose snake > sculpture at 11 a.m. as planned, and wait there for an Adobe announcement. > It would be about as easy to march to the U.S. > Attorney's office from there, if need be. Let Monday's protest roll. Because Adobe has done nothing that merits any change in our course. If the head of Adobe wants to come out and talk with protestors, we will not put him in jail. oo--JS. From shag-sklyarov at booyaka.com Fri Jul 20 14:07:58 2001 From: shag-sklyarov at booyaka.com (Paul Walmsley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Denver meeting Message-ID: The Denver-area meeting will be proceeding tonight as scheduled. Please come whether or not you agree with the EFF's decision; I'm sure we'll have a lively discussion. oughta be fun, too :-) - Paul From paul at paultopia.net Fri Jul 20 14:07:05 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720150537.00e6c510@mail.paultopia.net> That's a good compromise -- so all protests go on as planned, presumably someone at each one will have a cellphone or something, and by the time they're due to begin, Will will call people and say what happened, so everyone knows whether to bring out the "boycott adobe" signs or the "repeal the DMCA" signs. -Paul At 02:55 PM 7/20/01, Eric Rachner wrote: > We must be prepared to protest at the originally scheduled date >and time. We should prepare to protest the DMCA and the actions of the >government, and, should negotiations not result in a favorable outcome, >Adobe. If Adobe is amenable to withdrawing their complaint, then we >can leave the "Boycott Adobe" picket signs under wraps, and focus on the >message, "Free Dmitry, Repeal the DMCA." -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From dredd at megacity.org Fri Jul 20 14:08:12 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Postponement already on Slashdot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We need to moderate up my comment that it ISN'T on hold so its the first thing people read. :) D At 5:00 PM -0400 7/20/01, Xcott Craver wrote: > Now a large number of people are going to see that it is on hold. > This should be a factor in our deciding what to do, I think. > > -S > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From tmcdonnell at macblk.com Fri Jul 20 14:12:02 2001 From: tmcdonnell at macblk.com (tmcdonnell@macblk.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Adobe Will Talk! Message-ID: <88256A8F.00747550.00@MACBLKNS01.macblk.com> Hi, Its a smoke screen that adobe will allow you to share a cup of coffee with them. If the protests are cancelled, they would have won and been able to deter us. What will happen if the talks do not go as planned and we organise another protest, will that also be cancelled by a last minute call to the table ? Meanwhile, Dimitry sits in his cell... Peace From bwilson at gene.COM Fri Jul 20 14:08:53 2001 From: bwilson at gene.COM (Brian Wilson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A.D.O.B.E. Message-ID: <3B589DE5.66B5A6FF@gene.com> Absolutely Devoid Of Basic Encryption Admittedly Decision Ought (to have been) Blowfish Encryption Brian From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Jul 20 14:10:53 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <20010720135414.A13356@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, mike castleman wrote: > Say we pick Thursday. Okay, EFF & Adobe meet on monday, nothing happens. > Protest is on for Thursday. Fewer people can make it because people > already made arrangements to be there monday, not thursday, but still > enough people are ready to go. Then, Wednesday evening Adobe calls EFF, > says "We want to meet with you tomorrow morning, but iff you call off the > protest." I highly doubt the EFF would fall for that a second time. However, I do see your point, and there are several risks along these lines (e.g., Adobe promises whatever they have to promise to get the protest cancelled, then drags their feet for weeks.) I am also suspicious about the protest being in any way part of the terms of Adobe's willingness to meet. Question: if everyone protests anyways, to what extent will it hurt EFF negotiations? I mean, if it isn't the EFF's protest, and they arguably have no ability to stop other groups from doing so? -S From gbroiles at well.com Fri Jul 20 14:11:30 2001 From: gbroiles at well.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] San Jose rally on Monday Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010720140056.03334530@pop3.norton.antivirus> Seems like meeting at the snake at the pre-established time is a good idea - the assembled group might then hold a rally to celebrate Adobe's rediscovery of simple human decency, a rally to decry Adobe's failure to do so, or a march to the nearby federal building, which houses the US District Court, the US Attorney's office, and the US Marshal's office (280 S. First St, at the corner of First and San Carlos) to demonstrate the depth and urgency of the assembly's concern about Dmitry's arrest and detention. Overall, though, I think the time might be better spent standing in front of Fry's handing out flyers - people who buy Adobe software don't usually watch the TV news, or read the Murky News - so if you want to alter their purchasing behavior, you'll need to reach the purchasers some other way - including giving them detailed descriptions/locations of competitive software which functionally replaces the Adobe stuff. In any event, there's lots of time for the EFF, Adobe, and the US Attorney to get together over the weekend to end this quickly, so that Monday's meeting can be a celebration, not a demonstration. -- Greg Broiles gbroiles@well.com From free-sklyarov at happycool.com Fri Jul 20 14:09:06 2001 From: free-sklyarov at happycool.com (Victor Piterbarg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720131110.038c1770@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Hello, I've read all the replies to this, and I have to say that the tone seems pretty uniform. The general consensus is that WE STILL NEED TO PROTEST. There are no concrete promises from Adobe, all their offer could accomplish is kill our protest, that's unacceptable. I think EFF is a tremendous organization, and it's support is essential in order for out action to be successful. I hope that you will reconsider calling off the protest, and take off this "Hold." -Victor P.S. I will still be there. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Will Doherty Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 1:16 PM To: Klepht; wild@eff.org Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold Adobe only agreed to meet with us if we would put the Monday, July 23 protest on hold. We would like to believe that Adobe will be negotiating in earnest and it is not EFF's style to engage in punitive protests when there is hope of a negotiated solution. If some folks go ahead and protest and antagonize Adobe, that may escalate the situation, preclude Adobe withdrawing their complaint, and keep Dmitry in jail. I think should treat this as a partial victory... we have succeeded in getting to the table in a big way with Adobe! Let's use that leverage to get some concrete action. And if they don't budge, we can still protest. Those who offered the favors once hopefully did so because we have an important cause here, and will likely do so again. I am glad to hear everyone's comments about this and look forward to working together to get Dmitry out of jail and end further unfair DMCA prosecutions. Free Dmitry, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 01:00 PM 7/20/2001 -0700, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "WD" == Will Doherty writes: > > WD> Congratulations folks! The pressure we all have put on Adobe > WD> has resulted in an agreement to meet with representatives from > WD> the Electronic Frontier Foundation on this Monday morning, > WD> July 23. > > WD> For that reason, EFF has decided to: > > WD> PUT THE JULY 23 PROTEST ON HOLD > >Will, > >We are NOT going to be able to get this kind of momentum behind us >again if we pull the plug now. It's just NOT going to happen. > >So PLEASE be VERY confident that there will be CONCRETE >results. > >Frankly, this is the best of all worlds for Adobe: they get a couple >of eggheads to come into the office, they blow smoke up your asses for >a couple of hours, and then show you the door. > >In other words, you're neutralized. Everyone who's pulled in favors to >get this event publicized will be unable to make that happen again. I >know I will. > >It seems like a REALLY BAD idea to me, so I hope you have a better >feeling about the meeting than I do. If I were you, I'd wait until >AFTER Monday to meet with Adobe. But that's just me. > >~Klepht > >-- >klepht@eleutheria.org >http://www.eleutheria.org/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From declan at well.com Fri Jul 20 14:17:22 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What Adobe says about Monday's meeting Message-ID: <20010720171721.A32406@cluebot.com> I'm writing an article for Wired News tomorrow on this, but since it won't appear for over 12 hours, I thought I'd give you a sneak preview. I spoke at some length just now with Holly Campbell, Adobe's senior manager for corporate PR and a very pleasant person. She confirmed the meeting would take place on Monday. Campbell called it "a mutual frank discussion about some of these issues here. She said EFF wrote a letter to Adobe's corporate counsel that said EFF would be "happy to hold off on the protests" in exchange for a meeting. "What they did say in the letter to us is that they'll make their best efforts to discourage the protests. It sounds like they're holding up their end of the bargain," Campbell said. I asked for a copy of the letter and she said she could not give it to me since she thought it might be "privileged." I asked her if there's a chance the meeting will lead to Adobe withdrawing their complaint against Sklyarov. She replied: "I have no idea. On that I couldn't comment, nor would I even if I knew the answer. The purpose of the discussions on Monday are just to have a frank discussion of what the current issues are." -Declan From paul at paultopia.net Fri Jul 20 14:15:21 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Postponement already on Slashdot In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720144400.00e6e2c0@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720151208.00e7dd00@mail.paultopia.net> WHY?! Who put it there?! The protest is not postponed just because the EFF said so. I'm going to post a message saying it isn't postponed. Please post a link to the exact slashdot page where the postponment is discussed (I can't seem to find it) -Paul At 03:00 PM 7/20/01, Xcott Craver wrote: > Now a large number of people are going to see that it is on hold. > This should be a factor in our deciding what to do, I think. > > -S > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 20 14:17:34 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: [nylug-talk] pleeease arrange a monday protest. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Laurence Berland wrote: > For those unaware, EFF is in talks with Adobe, and so the protest is off > at least for now... Not the New York City protest, and I believe none of the others. The EFF issued an odd statement on the free-sklyarov mailing list, but they are now in process of amending the odd statement. The protest will roll Monday noon. oo--JS. From LGORKIN at mobius.com Fri Jul 20 14:18:36 2001 From: LGORKIN at mobius.com (Leonid Gorkin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:40 2005 Subject: [nylug-talk] RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? Message-ID: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F8D@ryentes1.mobius.com> I say let us meet regardless of EFF/Adobe talks. When we meet, we will decide on future actions. -----Original Message----- From: Carlos Macedo Gomes [mailto:gomes@navigo.com] Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 4:00 PM To: lo; Leonid Gorkin Cc: 'Jay Sulzberger'; 'Jon Bober'; free-sklyarov@zork.net; nylug-talk Subject: Re: [nylug-talk] RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? The one on 5th it is: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/frames/storeLocator/storeLocator_findstore_hom e.as p?userid=3WKBZNDWEI Union Square 33 East 17th Street New York, NY 10003 212-253-0810 I'll stop by there on my way home tonight and see what the setup is for group meetings. I know they have a discussion/speaker area on the top floor and a cafe on the 2nd to top (penultimate) floor. The cafe may even be setup for wireless/802.11 (not free and not secure), but that's besides it all. I'll see if they can point people to the right direction at the front desk in case last minutes changes are made and out an email w/ results of the findings later today or tomorrow morning. See you all tomorrow... regards, C.G. -- gomes@navigo.com Carlos Macedo Gomes _sic itur ad astra_ 1/1; ----- Original Message ----- From: "lo" To: "Leonid Gorkin" Cc: "'Jay Sulzberger'" ; "'Jon Bober'" ; ; "nylug-talk" ; "'Carlos Macedo Gomes'" Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [nylug-talk] RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? > > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Leonid Gorkin wrote: > > > Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:28:05 -0400 > > From: Leonid Gorkin > > To: 'Jay Sulzberger' > > Cc: 'Jon Bober' , free-sklyarov@zork.net, > > nylug-talk , > > 'Carlos Macedo Gomes' > > Subject: [nylug-talk] RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? > > > > Let's just peek one, on Fifth. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jay Sulzberger [mailto:jays@panix.com] > > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 3:23 PM > > To: Leonid Gorkin > > Cc: 'Jon Bober'; free-sklyarov@zork.net; nylug-talk; 'Carlos Macedo > > Gomes'; Jay Sulzberger > > Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Leonid Gorkin wrote: > > > > > OK, I agree. Let's meet on Saturday to work out the details. Carlos Barnes > > > and Noble near Union Square. How about 6pm on Saturday? > > > > I'll be there, but again, I ask, the Barnes and Noble's on Fifth Avenue, > > or on Sixth Avenue? > I wouldn't be able to be there in the evening (I should be in Connecticut > now) so suggesting a location might beout of place, but Bryant Park > near the refreshment area or behind the library near the open cafe or > whatever with a local coffee shop in case it rains (there are many in > the area) might be better iff the plan is for the Adobe office since it is > right there. > > If not somebody should go check things out before the meeting. For all we > know Adobe might have moved. > > > > > oo--JS. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Jay Sulzberger [mailto:jays@panix.com] > > > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:54 PM > > > To: Leonid Gorkin > > > Cc: 'Jon Bober'; free-sklyarov@zork.net; nylug-talk > > > Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Leonid Gorkin wrote: > > > > > > > I guess Adobe office here is more like a couple of rooms on 14th floor > > of > > > > some skyscraper. I found a federal courthouse building: 500 Pearl > > Street, > > > > not far from mayor's office. > > > > > > I like the library connection. Libraries and users of libraries fair use > > > rights are under assault by Adobe and other Copyright Englobulators. > > > > > > I vote for noon Monday 23 July 2001 in front of the offices of Adobe on > > > 40th Street on the Island of the Manahattoes. > > > > > > oo--JS. > > > > > From jewels at sunflower.com Fri Jul 20 14:21:10 2001 From: jewels at sunflower.com (Julie Thornton) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protests Message-ID: <00db01c11161$e640f080$ab2b7c18@lawrence.ks.us> EFF had to withdraw. They also had to request that we call off the demonstrations, which they did. However, if you think about it and read between the lines here, they fulfilled their commitment. We can now go on with the scheduled demonstrations and they can honestly say they tried to stop it, but it was bigger than they were. Probably that is what Adobe is going to say about the Federal Case. Go on with the demonstrations, and make sure you have at least one well prepared spokesperson on hand at every location to talk with reporters and provide even handed, factual information. Chances are good that the reporters won't know the history of the case, so be sure that you are ready to give them printed literature which describes the events. The Elcomsoft website has an excellent recap of events leading up to and following the arrest, and I recommend that you have hundreds of copies made of this version of events. That will substantiate the claims made and give a great background for reporters. Also, be sure and have someone contact all of the local newspapers and radio stations in your region, telling them about the demonstrations and inviting them to cover it. Be sure that they are told a time that is about 30 minutes AFTER you get started. That will allow all the latecomers to arrive and for you to gather crowds of interested persons who are milling about. Be sure you invite your friends and family members so the number of people there is as high as possible. Use a loudspeaker if you have one, and have people constantly giving speeches. Even if you have three people giving the same speech, that attracts attention. Make sure it is at least 10 minutes long, and that it is well prepared in advance. Noisemakers and streamers also attract attention with minimal cleanup. However, be sure you clean up the area when you leave, so that you are being a responsible citizen. There is nothing less convincing than a group of annoying people who come and leave their trash everywhere. How can that possibly produce respect? I assure you, it does not. Good luck to you all! Julie From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 20 14:24:06 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: [nylug-talk] pleeease arrange a monday protest. In-Reply-To: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F8C@ryentes1.mobius.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Leonid Gorkin wrote: > I would say let us still meet on Saturday, as many people do not agree with > postponing the protests, and there is a good deal of preasure on EFF to go > ahead... I tend to agree with that, for two reasons, first, Adobe most > probably just wants to prevent the protests that can bring them bad > publicity, second, this is unclear how much they can do even if they > withdraw their complain. Let's meet and discuss what we shall do. Agree. oo--JS. From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 20 14:29:30 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Postponement already on Slashdot In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Xcott Craver wrote: > > Now a large number of people are going to see that it is on hold. > This should be a factor in our deciding what to do, I think. > > -S You are right. We shall have to increase our efforts to get people to the protests. The protests will be effective, certainly more effective than no protests. oo--JS. From rabbi at quickie.net Fri Jul 20 14:30:58 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Something to remember: The EFF did not initiate the protests. If I recall correctly, that was, *cough* one of the boycottadobe.com folks. Surely Adobe can't expect the EFF to be able to cancel the protests. The EFF obviously can't be a part of them. I wholeheartly applaud the work the EFF has done to get to the table with Adobe, and wish them the best of luck on Monday. The EFF isn't "backing down" here. They should *not* kiss the oppurtunity to meet with Adobe. Please understand this. Let's show our support for Dmitry in the streets. And when Adobe withdraws their complaint, we'll take our rallies to the DOJ. And when Dmitry is released, we'll all buy him a beer. Free Dmitry! Len On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Xcott Craver wrote: > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > > > Adobe only agreed to meet with us if we would put > > the Monday, July 23 protest on hold. > > Ah. > > Well, honestly, just how much (irreversible) committment is there > for Monday, after all? Have people really pulled strings that > can't be unpulled? Bought plane tickets, got permits, or > begged for that day off? Any specific penalty to moving the > protest, other than loss of momenum? > > Would it be possible to declare a specific date later next week, > for which we can plan in the case that Adobe does not agree to > something substantial? Just so people who need to make > arrangements can do so? > > I think that as long as we have certainty about dates and times > as early as possible we could avert a loss of "momentum." > > -S > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From csm at Moongroup.com Fri Jul 20 14:28:20 2001 From: csm at Moongroup.com (Chuck Mead) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Postponement already on Slashdot References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720144400.00e6e2c0@mail.paultopia.net> <4.3.2.7.0.20010720151208.00e7dd00@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <3B58A274.2010201@Moongroup.com> http://slashdot.org/articles/01/07/20/2045220.shtml Paul Gowder wrote: > WHY?! Who put it there?! The protest is not postponed just because the > EFF said so. I'm going to post a message saying it isn't postponed. > Please post a link to the exact slashdot page where the postponment is > discussed (I can't seem to find it) From wiggin at myrealbox.com Sat Jul 21 14:33:06 2001 From: wiggin at myrealbox.com (Robert Franklin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Heart of the Matter? Message-ID: <002501c1122c$bb687290$6501a8c0@sarnath> It seems to be that the arguments over whether or not to protest boil down to who the target is. If the protests are aimed at Adobe, it makes much sense to let the EFF do its work... I have a high level of trust in them. However, if the target is more broad (i.e. DMCA, Federal Government, etc.) then talks with Adobe don't seem to have much bearing. Is Adobe making the decision about whether Dmitry stays imprisoned? If not, then why should the talks with them interrupt the protests? I see a need for a statement of position/goals/whatever, perhaps at boycottadobe.org if not through the EFF. I think we will continue to see some confusion regarding these issues until a relative neophyte such as myself has something to point to and say "_that_ is why we are here." It would also make communicating succinctly with media/etc. much simpler as well as presenting a united front. Agree? Any volunteers for such a document? I know what _I_ want to see here... it would be nice be able to answer what do _we_ want. DMCA gone? Dmitry free? Adobe to back down? All of the above? From ben at kuci.org Fri Jul 20 14:31:37 2001 From: ben at kuci.org (Ben Mehling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FYI: Free Sklyarov / Anti-DMCA shirts available.. Message-ID: Before joining this group, I contacted Copyleft (http://www.copyleft.net/) to ask if they were going to do a shirt to assist Sklyarov (they usually donate a portion of the sale to EFF or the appropriate party). They were very responsive and have thrown together a shirt which is available here: http://www.copyleft.net/item.phtml?page=product_1270_front.phtml I have already ordered mine -- nothing flashy, just a simple shirt to help get the word out. Comments and suggestions (for other designs?) can be directed to: amy@copyleft.net Thanks, - Ben PS... I have no affliation w/ copyleft, nor will I profit from any sales of the shirts -- if you don't want a shirt, don't buy one! :) From free-sklyarov at happycool.com Fri Jul 20 14:30:56 2001 From: free-sklyarov at happycool.com (Victor Piterbarg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] We have MOMENTUM! (and my grandmother) Message-ID: Hello, This whole thing about calling of the protest made me realize how much momentum we actually have. Not even an announcement from the EFF seems to be doing anything to cool anybody down. Which is the way it should be. Dmitry's arrest was just a trigger for something that has been brewing for a long long time, let's finally get the message out. Our protest is none of Adobe's business frankly. It's equivalent of my grandmother from Ukraine calling me to tell me that she might pull a few strings and get the DMCA repealed and Dmitry freed, and that I should call off the protest....Thanks grandma... My biggest concern is the dissimination of this news about the hold. EFF, please don't do that. I've already had to re-assure people that the show will go on. -Victor From adobedemonstrator at hotmail.com Fri Jul 20 14:33:52 2001 From: adobedemonstrator at hotmail.com (Adobe Demonstrator) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe officials and their authority Message-ID: For those of you meeting with Adobe, here are the executives' titles and pictures http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/executivebios/main.html The signatures of Pouliot, Chizen, and Geschke are the only that can bind the company to drop the charges, as I understand their respective authority. Please do not accept an unwritten agreement or an agreement not signed by at least one of those three executives. Free Sklyarov! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From wiggin at myrealbox.com Sat Jul 21 14:35:36 2001 From: wiggin at myrealbox.com (Robert Franklin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Activities in New Mexico In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002601c1122d$150e94f0$6501a8c0@sarnath> Yes, I was talking to jaraco. I think the plans for NM are faltering... partially due to the late date (he's heading out of town at the moment, my contacts are more limited, etc.) as well as the general confusion regarding the status of the protest right now. Are you currently on for Seattle? -----Original Message----- From: Neale Pickett [mailto:neale@woozle.org] Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 3:27 PM To: Robert Franklin Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Activities in New Mexico Ah! Are you talking to Ralph Coombs? I was trying to convince him to start something up :-) Robert Franklin writes: > I apologize for the HTML email. I'm experimenting with OfficeXP for > work. My previous message is repeated below in plaintext. I imagine we > have some common friends... I'm a reformed Techie & remember seeing you > around. > -----Original Message----- > From: Neale Pickett [mailto:neale@woozle.org] > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 3:08 PM > To: Robert Franklin > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Activities in New Mexico > Hey Robert, > I've got friends in New Mexico who might be interested, but I can't > decipher all that MS Word gar. Could you maybe resend that message in > plain text? > Repeated/Reformatted Message Follows... > ======================================================================== > === > A few friends and I are discussing an action in Albuquerque, New Mexico > to coincide with the other protests going on. A few questions have > surfaced that we could use some advice on. > 1) Is anyone else on the list in New Mexico, and willing to either > participate or help organize? > 2) Has the EFF or anyone on the list created a quick HOWTO for this sort > of thing? Topics I am interested in but somewhat clueless about > include: Informing the media; informing the authorities (i.e. > contacting local law enforcement to let them know we will be there) > 3) A set of cluefull speaking points. I'm thinking soundbytes & quotes > suitable for 30 seconds of news coverage. It seems to me a good idea to > have a short, quick list for people who are either organizing their own > small rallies or will be speaking with the press. Perhaps a media guide > from the EFF (if one already exists, please direct me to it) would be > helpful. what I really have in mind is something short that could be > handed out to supporters & media summing up the legal issues/etc. > Although concerned, I'm no lawyer & would want to be positive I had my > facts right. > Thanks, I'm sure more questions will follow-- > Rob From rms at privacyfoundation.org Fri Jul 20 14:34:03 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] OT -- Problems with the Adobe eBook software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002d01c11163$c3f48120$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Hi, My first attempt today to download the Adobe eBook reader software at Barnes & Noble failed with a 404 error (no such URL). I had to go to the Adobe site instead. I can't think of a better way to loose customers than making it impossible to get the software in the first place. OTOH, the MS reader downloaded just fine from B&N. When reading over the end user license that came with the software I found out it was for Acrobat Reader, a different software product, and not the eBook reader. Both of these problems makes one wonder who is minding the store. Richard From cgilbert at student.umass.edu Fri Jul 20 15:13:42 2001 From: cgilbert at student.umass.edu (Clint Gilbert) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Western Mass? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010720181342.0087f8f0@mailsrv-unix.oit.umass.edu> Is anyone in western Mass. interested in protesting out here? Somewhere in the Amherst/Northampton/Springfield area say? I can't travel to Boston on Monday, but I'd love to help. Clint Zoo Fscking Mass At 05:17 PM 7/20/01 -0400, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > > >On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Laurence Berland wrote: > >> For those unaware, EFF is in talks with Adobe, and so the protest is off >> at least for now... > >Not the New York City protest, and I believe none of the others. The EFF >issued an odd statement on the free-sklyarov mailing list, but they are >now in process of amending the odd statement. The protest will roll >Monday noon. > >oo--JS. > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > From free-sklyarov at happycool.com Fri Jul 20 14:36:14 2001 From: free-sklyarov at happycool.com (Victor Piterbarg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Meet TODAY In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I totally agree. If they were as concerned about this as they should be, they would get the president and the CEO, and the entire board of directors together. Who are these right players? Who is the meeting with anyway? -Victor -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Derek Balling Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 1:29 PM To: Will Doherty; Klepht Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Meet TODAY Then they lose. If they're not willing to make the steps necessary, that's their business. There is nowhere in the world that they couldn't have someone there by Sunday by jet, if they WANTED to. D At 1:23 PM -0700 7/20/01, Will Doherty wrote: >We were not able to get the right players into the room >today or over the weekend. Believe me, we tried that. > >>Why don't we continue to plan for events on Monday, and you meet TODAY >>with Adobe? Or over the weekend? If they give satisfactory answers, >>then we call off the protests. Otherwise, continue as planned. -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From rabbi at quickie.net Fri Jul 20 14:38:56 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Demonstration Rallies Continue (fwd) Message-ID: Hi -- Just a note to let you know that while the EFF is not taking part in the protests, they will still continue. The EFF is going to be negotiating with Adobe, and Dmitry's supporters will take to the streets to rally for him. All rallies will occur as planned. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:41:32 -0700 From: Pablos Kadrevis To: "free-sklyarov@zork.net" Subject: [free-sklyarov] Demonstration Rallies Continue The EFF has decided to withdraw from the demonstration rallies because they have scheduled a meeting with Adobe on Monday. This is only a minor victory and does not warrant backing down in our support of Freeing Dmitry. These demonstration rallies are already organized and have the momentum required to make them a success. We'll continue with our plans to rally in support of Dmitry. If Adobe is successful in freeing Dmitry, we'll end the boycott. Much thanks to the EFF for their efforts, we'll go our separate ways in supporting Dmitry from here on out. Thanks, Pablos Kadrevis Boycott Adobe _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From LGORKIN at mobius.com Fri Jul 20 14:45:48 2001 From: LGORKIN at mobius.com (Leonid Gorkin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NYC protest organization meeting to go ahead Message-ID: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F8F@ryentes1.mobius.com> We will meet and decide on the action. The general attitude is to go ahead with protests on Monday. Protest organization meeting will take place in Barnes & Noble store at: Union Square 33 East 17th Street New York, NY 10003 Anybody who wants to participate is welcome. Let us meet at 6 pm on Saturday, in front of the entrance to the store. The nearest subway stations are: Line 6 -- 14th Street Line N or R -- Union Square From dmarti at zgp.org Fri Jul 20 14:46:43 2001 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Postponement already on Slashdot In-Reply-To: <3B58A274.2010201@Moongroup.com> Message-ID: <20010720144642.B28869@zgp.org> begin Chuck Mead quotation of Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 05:28:20PM -0400: > http://slashdot.org/articles/01/07/20/2045220.shtml "H3Y M0D3RAT3 TH15 UP!!!!" http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=01/07/20/2045220&cid=147 -- Don Marti Free Dmitry! http://zgp.org/~dmarti Monday, July 23, San Jose, Moscow, and more dmarti@zgp.org http://eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From rsb at ostel.com Fri Jul 20 15:18:33 2001 From: rsb at ostel.com (Rich Bodo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold In-Reply-To: <20010720134322.L18250@zgp.org> Message-ID: > Going to downtown San Jose gives me many fascinating things to do. > >From the snake, I could march on Adobe, visit the Tech Museum, > walk to a decent Mexican restaurant for a burrito, or catch the > light rail home. > > So much flexibility! I will also be at the snake. I need to go to the IRS office downtown anyway. Other worthwhile things to do downtown (when you aren't protesting the imprisonment of research scientists): * Pick-up chess games at the coffee shops on 1st st. * Visit the nice libraries: San Jose Main, SJSU, Law library on 1st, etc. * Childrens Museum on Woz Way if you have little ones. * Check out the unusual headquarters of quasi-religions nearby. * Nothing. Just catch some rays in the park. -Rich From pedro at tastytronic.net Fri Jul 20 14:54:26 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Any action in Chicago In-Reply-To: ; from keith@webwalla.com on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 03:24:15PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010720165426.C284@tastytronic.net> Quoting Keith Lamont: > Just got here. Anything planned for Chicago? Yes. Nate Riffe is the official coordinator, but it's not yet on the EFF site. You can email me until we get it all sorted out. I think we're planning to abide by the EFF and wait until after the talks with that superpower, Adobe. Even if they're not a superpower, they could just photoshop in the FBI and have us all arrested, so... pedro -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- FBI has imprisioned a Russian software engineer for promoting and teaching the concept of "fair use". Read more: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From paul at paultopia.net Fri Jul 20 15:00:22 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What Adobe says about Monday's meeting In-Reply-To: <20010720171721.A32406@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720155921.00c77180@mail.paultopia.net> Thanks Declan. This should make it absolutely clear the level of BS behind Adobe's actions. >I asked for a copy of the letter and she said she could not give it >to me since she thought it might be "privileged." BS >I asked her if there's a chance the meeting will lead to Adobe >withdrawing their complaint against Sklyarov. She replied: "I have no >idea. On that I couldn't comment, nor would I even if I knew the >answer. The purpose of the discussions on Monday are just to have a >frank discussion of what the current issues are." In other words, a therapy session. -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From david at lupercalia.net Fri Jul 20 15:01:40 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] East Coast rallies In-Reply-To: ; from rabbi@quickie.net on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 09:41:25PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010720180140.B1385@lupercalia.net> On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 09:41:25PM -0700, Len Sassaman wrote: > Who is interested in doing a protest in NYC? What about DC or Philly? > These seem like prime spots... do we have anyone on the list interested in > this? What about the various LUGs, 2600 Chapters, etc? I'd be interested in helping out in DC. It is definitely a prime spot. -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Microsoft has never been an innovator - it's a fast follower. And when you're as big and dominant as Microsoft, and growing at 30 or 40 percent a year, it gets harder and harder to find people to be fast followers of. --Paul Saffo, Institute for the Future From dont.spam at gte.net Fri Jul 20 13:05:12 2001 From: dont.spam at gte.net (8?) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720145205.00aa8008@pop.coin.org> >From: "Michael C. Smith" >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net >Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] List of Demands > >On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 10:05:15PM -0700, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > The DMCA must be challenged in a court of law. That's how our system > > works. If Dmitry is immediately freed, we lose the opportunity for the > > challenge of the criminal portions of that law. > > > > Maybe you're just trusting Felten v. RIAA. > >We also have an opportunity here to pressure Congress to change the law. > >The key is to raise a big stink in the traditional media and to send >lots and lots of letters to our legislators. This issue doesn't even >touch the periphery of their conciousness. Legislators are some of >the LEAST wired people on the planet and they need to be made aware >by our screaming really loudly. > >Mike Smith One of the unfortunate ironies here is that the DMCA was originally sponsored by our very own Attorney General, John Ashcroft, while in the Senate. I can remember watching his smiling, lying ass when he told his colleagues on the floor that the DMCA would "protect little Susie's artwork from being stolen on the Internet". So me and my fellow Missourians voted him out and replaced him with a dead man. Then our idiot-in-chief made him the top law enforcement officer of the country. Given this background, I'm betting Ashcroft is looking forward to prosecuting the first case under his own law. (And getting TV time for being so proactive and technologically astute.) Sorry, we tried to get rid of him. (8?> From sam at dasbistro.com Fri Jul 20 12:16:25 2001 From: sam at dasbistro.com (Sam Phillips) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Reno Plans Message-ID: <20010720121624.M20615@dasbistro.com> Currently there are none. Tonight we're having a quick organizational session to make sure people are all on the same page, at my apartment (email me offlist for address.) For people that are interested in the Reno protest I've set up a mailing list for specific Reno discussion http://www.dasbistro.com/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-reno Free Dmitry! -- Sam Phillips http://www.dasbistro.com Reno Nevada From lo at eskimo.com Fri Jul 20 12:27:36 2001 From: lo at eskimo.com (lo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: [nylug-talk] pleeease arrange a monday protest. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:15:17 -0400 (EDT) > From: Jay Sulzberger > To: Jon Bober > Cc: nylug-talk@nylug.org, free-sklyarov@zork.net, > Jay Sulzberger > Subject: RE: [nylug-talk] pleeease arrange a monday protest. > > > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Jon Bober wrote: > > > perhaps someone close to the area could actually scout out the building? i > > would be willing to do this if i can leave work early (in the next 20 > > minutes.) would this be worth the effort? is someone closer? i am at > > Washington Square Park right now. > > > > At 11:40 AM 7/20/01 -0700, you wrote: > > I know the block. I believe that the building is simply an office > building. The telephone number does not answer. The site is good for the > protest. Has anybody double checked to see if Adobe is actually there -- I just got the info off the internet and don't know for sure if it is up-to-date/accurate. If it IS, then I think the proximity to the library makes it the best site. But somebody should check it out first. We will be able to tell people going to the library about > Adobe's plans to shut down all public libraries. And that Adobe has taken > the first step, by jailing one who simply made it possible for owners of > Adobe jacketed ebooks to make fair use of their own bought and paid for > property. > > oo--JS. > > From vagn at ranok.com Fri Jul 20 13:50:16 2001 From: vagn at ranok.com (Vagn Scott) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:42 2005 Subject: [nylug-talk] Re: [free-sklyarov] Meet TODAY References: Message-ID: <3B589988.C6811AC8@ranok.com> Jay Sulzberger wrote: > > On 20 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > > > Will, > > > > Why don't we continue to plan for events on Monday, and you meet TODAY > > with Adobe? Or over the weekend? If they give satisfactory answers, > > then we call off the protests. Otherwise, continue as planned. > > > > ~Klepht > > Yes. Why should we call off any protest merely because Adobe says they > will talk? As far as I know Dmitry still sits in jail. > > oo--JS. Amen. A Government Goon Squad, paid with OUR money, perpetrates this outrage on OUR guest, at the request of some f*cking company committed to the destruction of OUR basic liberties. It's not over. -- _~|__ >@ (vagn( / \`-ooooooooo-'/ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 20 18:25:26 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: [nylug-talk] pleeease arrange a monday protest. In-Reply-To: <01f301c11182$fb516240$9d01000a@cgomesw2k> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Carlos Macedo Gomes wrote: > > I'm on for the meeting tomorrow at 6pm. I checked out the B&N on 17th > St. and there's plenty of room to meet. I'll send out a proper note > shortly with more details. > > I still think a rally to spread the word about DMCA and what has > happened (note it has happened and that fact can't be erased) to > Dmitry. I don't know others but my thought is that for the days > Dmitry has already spent in custody, for his fight (short or long) > moving forward and for the possible repeat by others in similar cases > this action needs to continue as is with a focus on what has happened > w/ Dmitry and the DMCA. > > Adobe should act in quickly, honestly and in good will to be reflected > positively in the rallies. They have till Monday. > > regards, > C.G. Yes, I'll be there. oo--JS. From nick at zork.net Fri Jul 20 18:26:14 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [rabbi@quickie.net: ACK!!!] Message-ID: <20010720182614.T584@zork.net> For those of you who have been getting errors from mailman, I just upgraded, and hope to see some of those vanish. ----- Forwarded message from Len Sassaman ----- Just to recap: Monday's protests should be geared toward "support for Dmitry" and "anti-DMCA" messages. Let's keep the direct anti-Adobe messages to a minimum. They've made a step in the right direction, we can give them that much. We will still rally at the planned locations -- and if unfavorable news comes to us from the EFF team, we'll target them directly. But there is no harm in giving them a minor benefit of the doubt at this point in time. The EFF is doing the right thing by deciding not to participate in the rallies. They can better help Dmitry by meeting with Adobe. However, rallies for Dmitry will continue. If Adobe withdraws their complaint, no such rallies will take place at Adobe locations. But, until that happens, everything will occur as planned. Len On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > Protest Call Brings Adobe to the Negotiating Table > > There has been a lot of confusion about the Electronic > Frontier Foundation's decision to withdraw from the > protests on Monday, July 23, pending discussions with > Adobe. > > We want Dmitry Sklyarov out of jail and we want to stop > the anti-fair-use and anti-free-speech elements of the > Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA). In our best > judgment, the next step in this process is to talk to > Adobe and exhaust available remedies before taking other > action. > > We know people who have put time into this action are > disappointed that EFF has withdrawn, but the point of > the demonstration is to get Dmitry out of jail and this > could be the fastest way. > > EFF has been in the forefront of this fight since we > opposed the DMCA in Congress before it was enacted. > We have defended the programmers and researchers who have > been attacked by the anti-fair-use provisions of the DMCA > and are protecting scientists right to publish their work. > > Advocacy work sometimes requires making difficult choices. > We believe that deciding to talk with Adobe about > withdrawing their complaint against Dmitry Sklyarov is > the best way to help him and is an important step toward > eventually defeating the more onerous provisions of the > DMCA. > > - The Staff of EFF > > [This statement is available online at > http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html ] > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens ----- End forwarded message ----- -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From rabbi at quickie.net Fri Jul 20 18:01:05 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Monday's Rallies In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720171308.03a09b20@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Just to recap: Monday's protests should be geared toward "support for Dmitry" and "anti-DMCA" messages. Let's keep the direct anti-Adobe messages to a minimum. They've made a step in the right direction, we can give them that much. We will still rally at the planned locations -- and if unfavorable news comes to us from the EFF team, we'll target them directly. But there is no harm in giving them a minor benefit of the doubt at this point in time. The EFF is doing the right thing by deciding not to participate in the rallies. They can better help Dmitry by meeting with Adobe. However, rallies for Dmitry will continue. If Adobe withdraws their complaint, no such rallies will take place at Adobe locations. But, until that happens, everything will occur as planned. Len On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > Protest Call Brings Adobe to the Negotiating Table > > There has been a lot of confusion about the Electronic > Frontier Foundation's decision to withdraw from the > protests on Monday, July 23, pending discussions with > Adobe. > > We want Dmitry Sklyarov out of jail and we want to stop > the anti-fair-use and anti-free-speech elements of the > Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA). In our best > judgment, the next step in this process is to talk to > Adobe and exhaust available remedies before taking other > action. > > We know people who have put time into this action are > disappointed that EFF has withdrawn, but the point of > the demonstration is to get Dmitry out of jail and this > could be the fastest way. > > EFF has been in the forefront of this fight since we > opposed the DMCA in Congress before it was enacted. > We have defended the programmers and researchers who have > been attacked by the anti-fair-use provisions of the DMCA > and are protecting scientists right to publish their work. > > Advocacy work sometimes requires making difficult choices. > We believe that deciding to talk with Adobe about > withdrawing their complaint against Dmitry Sklyarov is > the best way to help him and is an important step toward > eventually defeating the more onerous provisions of the > DMCA. > > - The Staff of EFF > > [This statement is available online at > http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html ] > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From kyhwana at world-net.co.nz Fri Jul 20 18:29:21 2001 From: kyhwana at world-net.co.nz (Daniel Richards) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protests in other countries? Message-ID: <3B5983B1.7833.53B6057@localhost> I'd agree that we have way too much momentium to stop protests now. Remember, Dmitri is still in jail, his wife and children don't know what's happened to him and where he is. He has a family. As much as I hate to say it, it would be a good idea to bring this up. There is a picture floating around somewhere of Dmitri with his wife and children so maybe a copy could be printed out and brought along to protests in some capacity? That said, are there any protests being organised in other countries? I've heard there's one on in Moscow. Being in a (very) small rural town in the middle of no where, in New Zealand it's not possible for me to get to any of these. But is anyone else on this list in New Zealand? It might be a good idea to contact LUG/BSDUG's AND libraries, especially seeing as how the New Zealand government, like most other's are currently seeking submissions on it's own version of the DMCA, or due to pass them into law. Also, an IRC channel somewhere would be a good idea, for chatting and realtime setting up of protests and any news. This could also be used by people at protests, or in groups. I'd suggest perhaps the openprojects network, #freedmitri perhaps? (For those of you without IRC clients, www.mirc.com for windows and www.xchat.org for X/Unix) Daniel Richards - http://leopard.osoal.org.nz/~kyhwana/ PGP Pub key: http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/DanielRPubKey.asc Fingerprint: 416D 4027 D635 AF51 F2BF 60DF 4D94 F7A0 9893 2848 From gomes at navigo.com Fri Jul 20 18:31:44 2001 From: gomes at navigo.com (Carlos Macedo Gomes) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:42 2005 Subject: Fw: New York action planning [was RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned?] Message-ID: <023001c11184$e7bd9080$9d01000a@cgomesw2k> Hi, Please find enclosed the current details for the NYC rally in support of Dmitry. The NYC action is still on. thanks, C.G. -- gomes@navigo.com Carlos Macedo Gomes _sic itur ad astra_ 1/1; ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Macedo Gomes" To: Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 3:38 PM Subject: New York action planning [was RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned?] > Hi, > > We've got a group working on a rally in NYC in support of Dmitry Sklyarov. > Details are still coming together but here's what we have so far: > > Planning mtg: > Time: currently 6pm > Where: The new Barnes and Nobles at the north end of Union Square. Possibly > the top floor discussion area or the cafe on the penultimate floor. Check > http://zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/2001-July/thread.html for latest > details. > > Rally: > Time: around noon on Monday July, 23 2001 > Where: meet in front of the NY Public Library on 40th Street near the 5th Avenue > Intersection. Adobe has an office across the street at 8 West 40th Street. See > map. > > http://www.mapquest.com/cgi-bin/ia_find?link=btwn%2Ftwn-map_results&random=565&e > vent=find_search&SNVData=&address=8+west+40th+street&city=New++York&State=ny&Zip > =&Find+Map.x=5&Find+Map.y=11 > > The local NYLUG group may also have more input on the details above. We'll > update as needed. > > thanks, > C.G. > > PS: Sorry for cross posts. Just a little due-diligence in getting the word out > on the rally. > > -- > gomes@navigo.com > Carlos Macedo Gomes > _sic itur ad astra_ > 1/1; > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From mrmanley at home.com Fri Jul 20 18:40:35 2001 From: mrmanley at home.com (Monty R Manley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Give the EFF some credit Message-ID: <001201c11186$23a52580$6701a8c0@lorax> I disagree with the EFF's decision to negotiate with Adobe, but we all need to understand that these folks are not stupid, nor are they neophytes at this kind of thing. My disagreement stems from the fact that Adobe will react like any other corporation in the face of such public outrage -- they'll slather on the PR thick and heavy, commit to nothing, and send the EFF representatives off empty-handed. Then they can claim a moral victory later by saying, "Hey, we met with these guys! We tried to come to an agreement!" We also need to understand that Adobe's minions are no doubt monitoring this list *very* closely, and we need to affirm our solidarity with the EFF. Like it or not, good or bad, they are the most visible, most public, and most experienced organization involved in this whole affair so far. They are vital to the process, and they have so far acted with admirable honesty and courage. We need to back them up. So: I disagree with the EFF's decision, but I will stand behind them. I will choke back my outrage for a short while and see if Adobe -- contrary to my every expectation -- sees the error of their ways. I will trust the EFF to do the right thing. This is not to say that my anger has cooled the least little bit. If Adobe thinks that this move in any way has moderated my opinion, they are badly mistaken. If they try to jive the EFF folks, they'd better get ready for a firestorm. Monty From x at LuisGuillermo.com Fri Jul 20 18:36:25 2001 From: x at LuisGuillermo.com (Luis Guillermo RESTREPO RIVAS) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] effect on ADBE stock ? Message-ID: Will all this have some effect on ADBE stock: ? - or not so early ? http://www.siliconinvestor.com/research/chart.gsp?s=ADBE Just curious. Luis G. RESTREPO http://LuisGuillermo.com From sonjat at cs.unm.edu Fri Jul 20 16:41:02 2001 From: sonjat at cs.unm.edu (Sonja V. Tideman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boycott Adobe Site needs Rally Page In-Reply-To: Message-ID: For the Denver protest, if we could add the website http://www.cs.unm.edu/~sonjat/protest.html, that would be great... On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Bergit Donelan wrote: > Pablos, > > EFF has a rally list, but it would be a great idea to mirror it: > > http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html#protest > > [..snip..] > > PICK A PROTEST > San Jose, CA > Boston, MA > Denver, CO > Chicago, IL > Seattle, WA > Portland, OR > Reno, NV > Moscow, Russia > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > San Jose Protest > WHEN/WHERE > RALLY AT "THE SNAKE": We will be meeting at 11am PT in downtown San Jose at > the snake sculpture, "Quetzalcoatl", which is at the south end of Cesar de > Chavez Park, at the corner of South Market St. and West San Carlos St. Cesar > de Chavez Park is across San Carlos from the Hyatt St. Claire Hotel. > > >From "the Snake" we will walk the two blocks to Adobe Headquarters, 345 Park > Avenue together. > > TRANSIT > VTA light rail: Take the Santa Teresa/Baypointe line to the Convention > Center stop. Trains run approximately every 10 minutes. The convention > center is on the south side of the street; walk 1/2 block east on W. San > Carlos St. to the snake. > > Caltrain: Transfer from Caltrain to the Santa Teresa/Baypointe light rail > line at the Tamien station. > > VTA light rail schedules: > http://www.vta.org/schedules/SC_901.html > > DRIVING > Downtown San Jose is easily accessible from US 101, Interstate 280, and > California 87. See the URL below for maps and recommended routes: > > http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?addr=S+Market+St+and+W+San+Carlos+St&csz=Sa > n+Jose%2C+CA > > PARKING > An inexpensive pay parking lot is available at the San Jose Convention > Center, across San Carlos from the snake sculpture. The entrance is from > Almaden Blvd., one block west. > > Rideshare/Carpool Board for this protest > > EVENT CONTACT > Don Marti > dmarti@zgp.org > 650-743-8035 (cell) > > Free event T-shirts to the first 50-100 attendees. Free Dmitry! > > Boston Protest > WHEN/WHERE > Details coming soon > > Rideshare/Carpool Board for this protest > > EVENT CONTACT > C. Scott Ananian > cananian@mit.edu > work: 617 253-7710 > cell: 617 233-1238 > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > Denver Protest > WHEN/WHERE > Monday, July 23, 2001; other details to be determined at meeting: 7:30pm, > Bookend Cafe, Boulder Bookstore, 1115 Pearl @ 11th St. > > Rideshare/Carpool Board for this protest > > EVENT CONTACT > Sonja Tideman > sonjat@cs.unm.edu > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > Chicago Protest > WHEN/WHERE > Details coming soon > > Rideshare/Carpool Board for this protest > > EVENT CONTACT > Details coming soon > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > Seattle Protest > WHEN/WHERE > Details coming soon > > Rideshare/Carpool Board for this protest > > EVENT CONTACT > Neale Pickett > neale@woozle.org > 206-290-7309 (cell) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > Portland Protest > WHEN/WHERE > Mon., July 23, 2001, 11am PT, at Terry Shrunck Plaza outside the Federal > Building, downtown Portland. > Rideshare/Carpool Board for this protest > > EVENT CONTACT > Jeme A. Brelin > jeme@brelin.net > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > Reno Protest > WHEN/WHERE > Details coming soon > > Rideshare/Carpool Board for this protest > > EVENT CONTACT > Sam Phillips > sam@dasbistro.com > 775-843-4114 > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > Moscow Protest > WHEN/WHERE > Details coming soon > > Rideshare/Carpool Board for this protest > > EVENT CONTACT > Ilya V. Vasilyev > hscool@netclub.ru > +7 (095) 162-4767 > > CAMPAIGN FOR AUDIOVISUAL FREE EXPRESSION > This drive to free Dmitry Sklyarov is part of a larger campaign to empower > the creative community in the digital age by protecting the public's access > to and use of audiovisual technologies. > > Check the EFF CAFE campaign website regularly for additional alerts and > news: > http://www.eff.org/cafe/ > > For more information about the US v. Sklyarov Case see: > http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/ > > For yet more information on the DMCA see: > http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/ > > About EFF: > The Electronic Frontier Foundation is the leading civil liberties > organization working to protect rights in the digital world. Founded in > 1990, EFF actively encourages and challenges industry and government to > support free expression, privacy, and openness in the information society. > EFF is a member-supported organization and maintains one of the most > linked-to Web sites in the world: > http://www.eff.org > > Contact: > Will Doherty, EFF Online Activist / Media Relations > help-dmitry@eff.org > +1 415 436 9333 x111 > Robin Gross, EFF Staff Attorney / Intellectual Property & Fair Use > robin@eff.org > +1 415 436 9333 x209 > - end - > > -----Original Message----- > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Pablos Kadrevis > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 1:47 PM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boycott Adobe Site needs Rally Page > > > I need somebody to volunteer to create a page for the Boycott Adobe website > that unifies rally information. We need links to each rally announcement > page, and date/time/location summary information. If a page like this > exists somewhere else, we can use that as a starting point. > > Thanks, pablos. > -- > Pablos Kadrevis > pablos@kadrevis.com > 415.420.3806 > www.shmoo.com/~pablos > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From zbrown at tumbelrings.org Fri Jul 20 16:32:09 2001 From: zbrown at tumbelrings.org (Zack Brown) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: [nylug-talk] pleeease arrange a monday protest. In-Reply-To: ; from Laurence Berland on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 02:01:02PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010720163209.B17502@renegade> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 02:01:02PM -0700, Laurence Berland wrote: > For those unaware, EFF is in talks with Adobe, and so the protest is off > at least for now... Comletely untrue. The protests are most definitely on. But the EFF is no longer part of those activities, as they have chosen to negotiate with Adobe instead. Zack > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > > > > > > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Jon Bober wrote: > > > > > perhaps someone close to the area could actually scout out the building? i > > > would be willing to do this if i can leave work early (in the next 20 > > > minutes.) would this be worth the effort? is someone closer? i am at > > > Washington Square Park right now. > > > > > > At 11:40 AM 7/20/01 -0700, you wrote: > > > > I know the block. I believe that the building is simply an office > > building. The telephone number does not answer. The site is good for the > > protest. We will be able to tell people going to the library about > > Adobe's plans to shut down all public libraries. And that Adobe has taken > > the first step, by jailing one who simply made it possible for owners of > > Adobe jacketed ebooks to make fair use of their own bought and paid for > > property. > > > > oo--JS. > > > > > > Laurence Berland > http://www.isp.northwestern.edu > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- -- Zack Brown From david at lupercalia.net Fri Jul 20 15:49:42 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Washington D.C. Protest In-Reply-To: ; from mattreve@hotmail.com on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 01:41:28PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010720184942.A1704@lupercalia.net> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 01:41:28PM -0400, Matt Revelle wrote: > I live just outside of DC and am trying to either find or form a protest > together for Washington D.C. on Monday, the 23rd. Anyone who knows of a > planned protest for Skylarov in the VA/MD/DC area or would be interested in > planning one, please contact me directly at mattreve@hotmail.com . Yes, it needs to happen in DC. I set up a mailing list on my server to coordinate the effort. http://www.lupercalia.net/mailman/free-dmitry-dc -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com I have no idea what you're talking about when you say 'ask.' --Bill Gates, in his deposition for the Microsoft antitrust trial From rabbi at quickie.net Fri Jul 20 18:39:32 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Rallies on Monday Message-ID: http://www.boycottadobe.com/pages/rallies.html is now the home for the rally announcements. If you're planning on attending one, please visit this page for info. If you're holding one, please let us know so we can add it to the page. Thanks! -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From mh_sklyarov at cryptonomicon.net Fri Jul 20 18:39:04 2001 From: mh_sklyarov at cryptonomicon.net (Matthew S. Hamrick) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Can you add some of these links to the link farm at cryptonomicon.net? Message-ID: Hi everyone, I've been scouring this list, adding links mentioned here to the 'Sklyarov Controversy' section of the web links area at cryptonomicon.net. I think that I've got a relatively complete selection of links, but this thing is snowballing and I was just hoping I could convince you all to help me register your links at: http://www.cryptonomicon.net/links.php?op=viewslink&sid=55 Any help would be appreciated. Thanks! -Matt Hamrick P.S. - Also, check to see if your favorite link is there. If not, submit it or send me email at mh_other@cryptonomicon.net . From david at lupercalia.net Fri Jul 20 16:41:26 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Washington D.C. Protest In-Reply-To: <20010720184942.A1704@lupercalia.net>; from david@lupercalia.net on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 06:49:20PM -0400 References: <20010720184942.A1704@lupercalia.net> Message-ID: <20010720194126.A2772@lupercalia.net> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 06:49:20PM -0400, David Merrill wrote: > On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 01:41:28PM -0400, Matt Revelle wrote: > > I live just outside of DC and am trying to either find or form a protest > > together for Washington D.C. on Monday, the 23rd. Anyone who knows of a > > planned protest for Skylarov in the VA/MD/DC area or would be interested in > > planning one, please contact me directly at mattreve@hotmail.com . > > Yes, it needs to happen in DC. > > I set up a mailing list on my server to coordinate the effort. > http://www.lupercalia.net/mailman/free-dmitry-dc Web page now at http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ Working on content; it's bare bones. Life is hectic, would appreciate help. Regards, -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ Pitting browser against browser is hard since Netscape has 80% marketshare and we have <20% ... I am convinced we have to use Windows-this is the one thing they don't have... --Former Microsoft Vice President James Allchin in an internal memo From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Jul 20 15:34:42 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Bit quiet all of a sudden... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just a test. From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Jul 20 18:53:20 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Welcome to new subscribers; updates Message-ID: <20010720185320.K6900@zork.net> This list now has 533 subscribers. Traffic has continued to be quite high, largely due to the discussion about the Monday events and EFF's role. I welcome everyone to the list and provide the following reminder: > PLEASE DO NOT HARASS ADOBE ON THE TELEPHONE OR SEND THEM ANY OTHER > KIND OF HARASSING OR THREATENING COMMUNICATION! (The same goes for > the U.S. Marshal Service, the U.S. Attorney's Office, and the U.S. > District Court.) Of course, it is OK to send criticism to Adobe and > to the U.S. Attorney. Let your criticism be civil and relevant. > > When people sent threats to the MPAA -- following the MPAA's > reprehensible prosecution of 2600 Enterprises -- the MPAA actually > quoted these in court and used them to hurt the defendants' case! My latest news is that Dmitry Sklyarov was still held in Las Vegas as of yesterday and had managed to talk to at least one person by telephone. If you (a list reader) do manage to speak to him, please pass on the word that over 500 people have signed up to support him and that he is receiving messages of support from all over the world. IN OTHER NEWS ------------- The EFF decision today to postpone its call for demonstration at Adobe has caused a lot of controversy. I hope that some of that controversy can move off-list now. I was in the EFF office in my capacity as a volunteer today, and the EFF is well aware that this decision was very controversial. You can certainly continue to take up this discussion with the EFF. EFF will meet with Adobe on Monday to discuss the situation. http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010720_eff_sklyarov_alert.html Some other groups are continuing the demonstrations on Monday as they had previously scheduled. Information about those groups may continue to be posted here by them. I'm aware of this co-ordination page http://www.boycottadobe.com/pages/rallies.html for those who are choosing to continue with these events. PLEASE CALL ----------- If you are well-informed about the situation and would like to express your opinion, I think the following are appropriate recipients: (Please remember to avoid any abusive, harassing, or threatening messages, which hurt Mr. Sklyarov's cause!) * Adobe Systems, Inc. http://www.adobe.com/ * Your U.S. Representative or Senators (if you are in the U.S.) http://www.congress.org/ * The U.S. Embassy, Consulate, or Interests Section for the place where you live (if you are not in the U.S.) http://usembassy.state.gov/ * The U.S. Attorney General http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/ * The U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of California http://www.usaondca.com/ * The legal and technical media, and the local media for the place where you live -- if they are not yet aware of the situation * Your local newspaper (you can write a letter to the editor) PLEASE DO NOT CALL ------------------ * The Russian Consulate in San Francisco (they already know about the situation!) * Media that have already covered the story (unless you have something new to add) * The U.S. Marshal Service or the Federal Public Defender (they seem to have no useful information for the public) ADMINISTRIVIA ------------- You can only post from the address under which you are subscribed _and your envelope and From: addresses must match, which some mail software does not do correctly_. If you post from another address, your mail will be flagged and delayed until I can review it. If you send me additional addresses from which you'd like to be able to post, I can enable that, but it may take some time before I can get to it. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or search the archives: http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov/ To browse the archives: http://zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/ Thanks to Nick Moffitt for doing list hosting. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From moomonk at daisy-chan.org Fri Jul 20 13:58:17 2001 From: moomonk at daisy-chan.org (Joshua Jore) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Minneapolis/St. Paul contact? Message-ID: Is there any current local organizing contact in Minneapolis+St. Paul? Someone asked earlier but didn't respond. If there isn't one I'll volunteer for that. I'm not cell or pager connected though I do get to e-mail relatively quickly. I can be e-mailed at moomonk@daisy-chan.org, 612-287-9825. Joshua Jore PS, I'm also running for Mayor of Minneapolis on the No Snow Emergencies! ticket. Be sure to vote in the primary on September 11th. It determines who shows up on the ballot in November. From nick at zork.net Fri Jul 20 18:55:39 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Welcome to new subscribers; updates In-Reply-To: <20010720185320.K6900@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 06:53:20PM -0700 References: <20010720185320.K6900@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010720185539.Z584@zork.net> Begin The ASCII Floating Head of Seth David Schoen quotation: > I welcome everyone to the list and provide the following reminder: > > > PLEASE DO NOT HARASS ADOBE ON THE TELEPHONE OR SEND THEM ANY OTHER > > KIND OF HARASSING OR THREATENING COMMUNICATION! (The same goes for > > the U.S. Marshal Service, the U.S. Attorney's Office, and the U.S. > > District Court.) Of course, it is OK to send criticism to Adobe and > > to the U.S. Attorney. Let your criticism be civil and relevant. > > > > When people sent threats to the MPAA -- following the MPAA's > > reprehensible prosecution of 2600 Enterprises -- the MPAA actually > > quoted these in court and used them to hurt the defendants' case! This would be a good text block to add to the message that gets sent to new subscribers. (knock wood, but this mailman upgrade seems to have been just the thing) -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From mrmanley at home.com Fri Jul 20 15:34:16 2001 From: mrmanley at home.com (Debian User) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF Meeting w/Adobe Message-ID: <20010720173416.A28038@home.com> I can already tell you what will come of this meeting: nothing. And the EFF is quite aware of that fact. I mean, really: what do we expect Adobe to do? I know what I'd *like* them to do -- I'd like them to apologize for siccing the feds on Dmitri, publicly apologize for their part in this affair, and extract from them a promise never to do this kind of thing again. Ain't gonna happen, folks. Adobe, like almost all other large commercial software houses, will *never* give up on this point. To them, it is tantamount to giving up on their business altogether. Their interests are not the preservation of individual liberties or basic human rights; their interests are gaining the fullest- possible returns for their shareholders. The meeting, for Adobe, will simply be a way to get out the party line: they're just protecting their IP, they're on firm legal ground, now fuck off and leave us alone. Like most here I admire the EFF, but I really think they screwed up here. By letting Adobe dictate terms for the meeting they put themselves in a position of weakness going forward, and that's not a good thing to do in situations like this. Further, they do not appear to have extracted any discussion-points from Adobe -- if it were me, I'd want to know that their public recantation was at least on the table. I say keep the heat on Adobe. Regards, Monty Manley From nick at zork.net Fri Jul 20 18:58:31 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] LinuxJournal Article Message-ID: <20010720185831.A584@zork.net> Mike Orr just sent me this URL: http://noframes.linuxjournal.com/articles/currents/0034.html Bryan Pfaffenberger wins again! -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From declan at well.com Fri Jul 20 16:34:22 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What Adobe says about Monday's meeting In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720161516.00c79d60@mail.paultopia.net>; from paul@paultopia.net on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 04:16:12PM -0600 References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720155921.00c77180@mail.paultopia.net> <20010720171721.A32406@cluebot.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20010720155921.00c77180@mail.paultopia.net> <20010720181034.A3183@cluebot.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20010720161516.00c79d60@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <20010720193422.B4365@cluebot.com> I think EFF (I told them this) made a tactical error in not communicating to folks here that they were talking with Adobe, but this happened apparently very quickly. That said, I don't think their intent in withholding the letter is because of its content but because they don't want to piss off Adobe. I have more details in my article up tomorrow. -Declan On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 04:16:12PM -0600, Paul Gowder wrote: > Ah. So EFF put something in the letter that > will make the activists trying to move these protests angry enough to > disrupt negotiations, eh? > > At 04:10 PM 7/20/01, Declan McCullagh wrote: > >EFF is also refusing to release the letter. They say, with ample > >justification, that it would be seen as damaging to negotiations on > >Monday. The net effect, though, is that we're left a little in the > >dark, at least for now. > > > >-Declan > > > > > >On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 04:00:22PM -0600, Paul Gowder wrote: > > > Thanks Declan. This should make it absolutely clear the level of BS > > behind > > > Adobe's actions. > > > > > > > > > > > > >I asked for a copy of the letter and she said she could not give it > > > >to me since she thought it might be "privileged." > > > > > > BS > > > > > > >I asked her if there's a chance the meeting will lead to Adobe > > > >withdrawing their complaint against Sklyarov. She replied: "I have no > > > >idea. On that I couldn't comment, nor would I even if I knew the > > > >answer. The purpose of the discussions on Monday are just to have a > > > >frank discussion of what the current issues are." > > > > > > > > > In other words, a therapy session. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -Paul Gowder > > > > > > "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." > > > - Homer Simpson > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > -- > -Paul Gowder > > "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." > - Homer Simpson > > > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From don at astro.cornell.edu Fri Jul 20 18:27:20 2001 From: don at astro.cornell.edu (Don Barry) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (no subject) Message-ID: <200107210127.f6L1RKD12234@marx.tn.cornell.edu> Dear Mr. Doherty and opponents of the DMCA, Suspending public acts at the moment a public is galvanized has historically been disastrous for movements. Adobe, you may rest assured, would easily be willing to make pro-forma agreements to talk in exchange for such suspension, knowing that the size, energy, and vigor of such public acts is likely to decrease with time. What *is* clear from successful political movements is that the best chance of growing a movement is to let it ride with slack rein. Give full support to the upcoming protests. Adobe will react to them, not to behind-the-scenes negotiations. The result will be a public debate about both this case and the DMCA -- a far more useful outcome than a behind-the-scenes *potential* amelioration of one DMCA alleged violation. Don Barry, Staff Astronomer, SIRTF/IRS Science Team, Cornell University Astronomy From unicorn at schloss.li Fri Jul 20 18:49:06 2001 From: unicorn at schloss.li (Black Unicorn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday References: Message-ID: <00fc01c11187$543e7100$d2972040@thinkpad574> Note: Adobe- owing to the kidnapping of its big wig some time ago- is very paranoid. Please be aware and be cautious as they may be prone to overreact to taunting. (Do not taunt happy-fun-acrobat). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Len Sassaman" To: ; ; ; Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 6:39 PM Subject: Rallies on Monday > http://www.boycottadobe.com/pages/rallies.html > > is now the home for the rally announcements. If you're planning on > attending one, please visit this page for info. If you're holding one, > please let us know so we can add it to the page. > > Thanks! > > -- > > Len Sassaman > > Security Architect | > Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." > | > http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens > From gl_jason at yahoo.com Fri Jul 20 19:00:08 2001 From: gl_jason at yahoo.com (Jason DeRose) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Any irc servers/channels? Message-ID: <20010721020008.4572.qmail@web5205.mail.yahoo.com> So are there any irc servers/channels running re Free-Sklyarov? Adobe's indictment of Sklyarov isn't their only offense, and even if, in warmhearted gesture, they withdraw their charges, this shouldn't mitigate our anger toward them: remember, it's because of the antisocial profiteering and opportunism of companies like Adobe that the DMCA exists. The public needs greater awareness of this either way. The protest should rage on. -Jason DeRose __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From rabbi at quickie.net Fri Jul 20 19:05:22 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Rallies on Monday (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 19:00:05 -0700 From: Bob La Quey To: Len Sassaman Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Rallies on Monday Action is being planned in San Diego the site of the Open Source Convention being put on by O'Reilly and Associates. Since several thousand prgrammers from all parts of the Free/Open Source community will be in attendance we will have a huge opportunity to turn out a crowd. For those who might be intrested, I suggest that all those concerned with this issue who are in San Diego by Sunday evening can meet at say: 8:00 PM in the Lobby Sheraton San Diego Hotel and Marina 1380 Harbor Island Drive San Diego, California 92101 This is really a natural place for old friends attending the OSCON to meet first anyway. We just hold up a few "FREE DMITRY" signs and then self-organize from there. If it is crowd then we will find a place to take it. Hotels have plenty of places for crowds. I remains to be seen what official or unofficial stance O'Reilly will take on this movment. ORA is quite competent to speak for themselves so they will no doubt do so. But there will be a rally and protest on Monday and all of the attendees at the OSCON are welcomed to come and express their views. At 06:39 PM 7/20/01 -0700, you wrote: >http://www.boycottadobe.com/pages/rallies.html > >is now the home for the rally announcements. If you're planning on >attending one, please visit this page for info. If you're holding one, >please let us know so we can add it to the page. > >Thanks! > >-- > >Len Sassaman > >Security Architect | >Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." > | >http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov Bob La Quey From freesk at hackhawk.net Fri Jul 20 19:11:14 2001 From: freesk at hackhawk.net (hackhawk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Los Angeles In-Reply-To: <007201c11173$ce0cc860$3088d790@tti.com> References: <20010720231228.WHGP18323.mta09.onebox.com@onebox.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720184934.00a16cc0@localhost> My boss and I met Dmitry after his talk last Sunday. We were potentially going to hire him to try and break the code of one of our products to test it's strength. I wont forget how he played along with one of the organizers of Defcon by repeating "Where are the nuclear Wessels in Alameda". :-) This guy is NOT a criminal. Sometimes I get frustrated at the stupidity and ignorance of U.S. Americans, especially since I am a U.S. American. Reading some of the posts on this list gives me hope afterall. Many are smart enough to see right through Adobe's attempt to halt/hold the protests. It's a typical corporate game/ploy to reduce our momentum. To miss out on the opportunity to meet some of you would be a great loss. I'm in LA and don't really want to drive all the way to San Fransisco (San Jose). However, the only thing I found on Adobe in LA/Irvine is the following information. The number is no longer working. Adobe Systems Inc. 6 Venture Suite 100 Irvine, CA 92718 (714) 727-0485 If there's enough interest, I'd be more than happy to use my web site (hackhawk.net) as a focal point. I could easily setup a local mailing list too. Before I spend the time working on it, I need to see if there's at least 5 to 10 people interested in forming a rally here in LA/Irvine. hh At 04:29 PM 7/20/01 -0700, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: >I haven't seen much talk about it yet. > >There was, at one point, an Adobe office down in Irvine. I was thinking of >calling to see if they're still there but things have been busy today. > >Unfortunately, I'm not sure I could pull off Monday even if there was >something around here. But then, again, given I expect Adobe to blow off the >EFF on Monday, there could always be a round two... > >I mean, I'd like to do more than just buy a T-shirt. > >Mark > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jeff Strauss" >To: >Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 4:12 PM >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Los Angeles > > > > > > > > Are there any protests planned for Los Angeles? > > > > -C.L. > > > > __________________________________________________ > > FREE voicemail, email, and fax...all in one place. > > Sign Up Now! http://www.onebox.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From rabbi at quickie.net Fri Jul 20 19:13:52 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Ashcroft Quote In-Reply-To: <20010720185831.A584@zork.net> Message-ID: Oh, how I love this quote: "There is perhaps nothing quite as distressing as the unintended consequences of well-intentioned government," Ashcroft said. (From http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45432,00.html) From nick at zork.net Fri Jul 20 19:16:12 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Any irc servers/channels? In-Reply-To: <20010721020008.4572.qmail@web5205.mail.yahoo.com>; from gl_jason@yahoo.com on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 07:00:08PM -0700 References: <20010721020008.4572.qmail@web5205.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010720191612.E584@zork.net> Begin Jason DeRose quotation: > So are there any irc servers/channels running re > Free-Sklyarov? Emaddin El-Haraty has offered us the use of slashnet's servers for this. Go to the server us.slashnet.org (or eu.slashnet.org or au.slashnet.org, depending on your location), and join #sklyarov (note: NOT "skylarov" or any other misspelling!). -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From mech at eff.org Fri Jul 20 15:38:31 2001 From: mech at eff.org (Stanton McCandlish) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: URGENT: factioning... Message-ID: At 3:07 PM -0700 on 7/20/01, Neale Pickett wrote: > picketing Adobe might be a bad > move, seeing as how they're at least going through the motions of doing > what we asked them to. Exactly. It could really backfire, because the p.r. damage of the protests is a large part of what they are looking to avoid. If you protest them anyway, they have much less of an incentive to yield on anything. And a second protest will not get much, if any, press. This is a one-shot deal. It'll only be news the first time it happens. That time should really count. -- -- Stanton McCandlish mech@eff.org http://www.eff.org/~mech Technical Director/Webmaster Electronic Frontier Foundation voice: +1 415 436 9333 x105 fax: +1 415 436 9993 EFF, 454 Shotwell St. San Francisco CA 94110 USA From mech at eff.org Fri Jul 20 15:29:39 2001 From: mech at eff.org (Stanton McCandlish) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] URGENT: factioning to avoid looking like we are factioning seems highly quixotic Message-ID: Apologies for the earlier insinuation that EFF was "deciding" to put the protests on hold. That was an error of internal EFF staff confusion as to how this was being organized. I'm *asking*. So's John Gilmore our co-founder & boardmember who's gotten Adobe to agree to the meeting. [Replying to several at once.] > The EFF should distance itself from the protests. We'll have to distance ourselves from protests happening prior to or simultaneously with us trying to get them to about-face on this (unless you're a gangster, you can't ask people to cooperate when you are beating them). If the protests held off, and then went forward a day or so later if Adobe won't play ball, we would not need to distance ourselves, and I think they could use our "good name" attached to them in that circumstance. > However, meeting with > Adobe is not a guarantee that Dmitry will be released, or that Adobe will > withdraw the charges. We know that. We don't want the protests to *stop* (unless Adobe completely caves). Even then, they should still happen, but be targetted against the DoJ. We have *MOMENTUM* here. Protesting when it's not really needed yet could easily spend it all wastefully, while not continuing to follow through with a DoJ protest should Adobe bend over backwards simply would dissipate it all. This is a matter of priorities and goals, it's that simple. If you want to get together and bash Adobe because they were mean, and it's fun to bash them, that's one thing. I don't see much point in it. If you want to actually help Dmitry Sklyerov, that's another matter entirely, and requires some strategy. > I also think it will be bad for the EFF to call for a halt to the > protests. They will continue, We don't want to do that. We want to call for the protests to wait until Adobe says what they're going to do. We've all already gotten them this far, just by *threatening* the protests. You have a "stick" here. If you threaten someone with a stick and they agree to listen to what you want them to do to avoid being beaten by it, you don't beat them anyway just for fun. You see if they agree to your demands or not, and then whack them if they don't. It'd just be a day or a few days at most. (Days that could actually be used for better planning, more organizing, etc. EFFector did NOT go out last night with the alert, and is on hold until we sort this out. If we can have a joint plan pulled together, we can issue a new alert if Adobe won't back down. EFFector is **28,000** subscribers. That will swell the rallies/protests, esp. if people have more lead-time, e.g. for a Wed. rally/protest. I can't agree with Macki that it won't be possible to rekindle. The spark won't have gone out simply because of a rescheduling. Organizations that pull off rallies & protests regularly understand the value of targeting the timing as perfectly as possible, and this sort of thing just happens sometimes. We should learn from that. > but if the EFF does that, we'll lose > momentum. Yes, it would. and... >And, we may distract people with the story that we've factioned. > > If the EFF simply bows out of the protests gracefully, I think everyone's > goals are met. ... I strongly disagree. Even THAT will look like factioning, and it will look highly suspicious, like EFF's has been bent over a barrell by Adobe. This is precisely the opposite of the truth and the opposite impression to give! If "the" freedom-over-intprop org is seen as having been pressured out of the protests, the remaining protesters are likely to be treated by the press as "those freaky extremists" and marginalized. If we continue in an organized-together fasion, this won't happen. > If Adobe asks why the protests are still occuring, say > "We're not the protesters; they won't be happy until the charges are > dropped." This will look very disingenuous to them. If I were an Adobe rep, I wouldn't buy a word of it. EFF genuinely DOES have to discourage and distance itself from Mon. protests. And I personally think they will be counterproductive. IF Adobe sticks to its guns, we CAN endorse and advertise protests, and those protests would be highly on-point. Look, we *already have a victory* in one battle in this "war". This is not a loss of steam or momentum. We've got the upper hand, we can afford to hold back the stick-whack, and with this sort of positive spin it will NOT be difficult to get people to show up for a later rally. I've been doing activism for 9 years straight. I know we can do this. Interest doesn't just disappear after you get some traction. Unless you're utterly ineffectual in organizing and alerting, which this gathering certainly isn't, the interest just grows and peaks. > The down side --- of course --- is advocating protests --- and then backing > down having gotten all hyped up. I personally enjoy a good protest and it's > somewhat of a letdown --- and we have egg on our face. And there's > reluctance to do this. But -- it's the way things are right now. It's not a letdown if you follow through later. It's just good planning. Now, if we called for a delay the day of the protest, that would be a different story. PS: I think just sticking to the first schedule but protesting the DoJ/FBI will look like a cop-out. (no pun intended) -- Stanton McCandlish mech@eff.org http://www.eff.org/~mech Technical Director/Webmaster Electronic Frontier Foundation voice: +1 415 436 9333 x105 fax: +1 415 436 9993 EFF, 454 Shotwell St. San Francisco CA 94110 USA -- -- Stanton McCandlish mech@eff.org http://www.eff.org/~mech Technical Director/Webmaster Electronic Frontier Foundation voice: +1 415 436 9333 x105 fax: +1 415 436 9993 EFF, 454 Shotwell St. San Francisco CA 94110 USA From proclus at iname.com Fri Jul 20 16:37:23 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan/Propaganda In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107202337.f6KNbPu06497@moerbeke> On 20 Jul, Seth Johnson wrote: > > From: Len Sassaman >> Give us another logo. SO far it's the only one we have to use. > For HTML, you are free to use the Free Dmitry block from GNU-Darwin. Personally, I think it would be good to see this all over the web. I point it to the list page, but you could point reasonably point it at boycottadobe.com too. Regards, proclus

FREE Dmitry!
> > I'd have to think about it, plus I'm at work right now, and I probably > couldn't execute an idea as well as might be desired, with my graphics > software and abilities. I will try this evening and weekend, but I would > have to stress that my input will have to be in the spirit of > brainstorming. You'd have to let me and anybody who also gets triggered > to comment or offer suggestions, be stupid, basically, until a good idea > was come up with. Or find someone with a natural talent for this. > > Ask around, though, until I can see what I come up with. Anybody have > any ideas? > > Seth Johnson > >> >> On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Seth Johnson wrote: >> >> > >> > Goran's right. >> > >> > The symbol resonates a certain way in the post-Reagan (and >> -Thatcher) >> > "West." But it's important to remember that we're on a global >> stage. >> > And Sklyarov's Russian. >> > >> > If it's "merely" a symbol, then at least groups working together on >> this >> > should present other logos and let the use of this logo per se be >> just >> > one of a number of logos different people are using. >> > >> > Seth Johnson >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Goran Thyni >> > Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:25:25 +0200 >> > >> > > But, >> > > >> > > outside USA the symbol for many people represent not stalinist >> Sovjet >> > > Union, >> > > but the struggle against oppression and feudalism. >> > > The "Hammer and Sickle" represent the struggle of workers and >> > > farmers. >> > > >> > > Since in this case we fight misconduct of big business the symbol >> > > creates confusion, especially since the victim is Russian. >> > > >> > > Many people support this cause, use of this symbol is hinting a >> > > wider polical agenda which will alienate supporters. >> > > >> > > best regards, >> > > -- >> > > G?ran Thyni >> > > Sweden > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From prometheus2600 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 20 11:45:04 2001 From: prometheus2600 at hotmail.com (Thomas Anderson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Any plans or interest in Indianapolis area protest? Message-ID: Was wondering if there are any people in the Indianapolis area who are planning to get a group together. If not, mayhaps I'll join those in Chicago. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From calvin at xmission.com Fri Jul 20 13:40:28 2001 From: calvin at xmission.com (Calvin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Utah protests In-Reply-To: from "free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net" at Jul 20, 2001 01:26:29 PM Message-ID: I'll happily participate in a Utah Protest Monday...I would think protesting at the Federal Building in downtown Salt Lake would be a good place. -calvin From prostoalex at hotbox.ru Fri Jul 20 19:27:19 2001 From: prostoalex at hotbox.ru (Alexander Moskalyuk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Reuters piece Message-ID: <200107210227.f6L2RJT94324@www1.mailru.com> Supporters Rally Behind Arrested Russian Hacker By Elinor Mills Abreu LOS ANGELES (Reuters) The arrest this week of a 26-year-old Russian software programmer accused of violating U.S. copyright law has sparked protests and pledges of support from a wide range of free speech advocates, defense lawyers and consumer groups. Dmitry Sklyarov, who was arrested on Monday in Las Vegas after a major hacker convention there, is the first person to be prosecuted under the controversial 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act (news - web sites), federal law enforcement officials said. Adobe Systems Inc. (NasdaqNM:ADBE - news) alleged that a program Sklyarov wrote violates that law, which bans the creation or distribution of any technology that circumvents copyright protections. ``Free Dmitry'' rallies are scheduled for Monday in San Jose, Boston, Denver, Chicago, Seattle, Portland, Reno and Moscow, according to the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a San Francisco-based advocacy group focused on free speech issues on the Internet. EFF representatives are scheduled to meet on Monday with Adobe executives in an attempt to broker a resolution in the case, a lawyer for the group said on Friday. ``Because of the meeting with Adobe we are not supporting the protests because we would like to go in there and talk to them in good faith about their policies,'' said Lee Tien, a senior staff attorney for the advocacy group. ``We want to explore all the options we can for Adobe and the EFF in an effort to free Mr. Sklyarov and at the same time address public policy issues raised'' by the new copyright law, Tien said. The EFF, which was founded by Grateful Dead lyricist John Perry Barlow and Mitchell Kapor, the founder of the software company Lotus, argues that the new U.S. copyright law, which took effect in 2000, is flawed because it outlaws technologies instead of conduct. The group plans to offer legal aid to Sklyarov, who was detained without bail and will be transferred to a federal detention center in San Jose. In an interview with a local Las Vegas television station, Sklyarov denied doing anything wrong and accused Adobe of bullying him. ``I wrote the program to demonstrate security flaws, not to violate copyright law,'' he told station KTNV on Wednesday. ''It's not illegal in Russia.'' Sklyarov's program allows people who purchase books in digital form, known as ebooks, to get around protections in Adobe's eBook Reader designed to prevent copies from being made. In addition to organizing rallies, Sklyarov's supporters have created a Web site calling for a boycott of Adobe products(http://www.boycottadobe.com) that features photos of Sklyarov and his wife and two children in Moscow. An Adobe lawyer did not return calls seeking comment on Friday. Sklyarov's employer, Moscow-based ElcomSoft Co., began selling his program a month ago but pulled it off the market after Adobe complained, executives said. Sklyarov's was arrested in Las Vegas just before he was scheduled to return to Moscow, officials said. He had given a presentation at the DefCon hacker convention on his program the day before he was arrested. Best regards, Alexander Moskalyuk http://www.moskalyuk.com/ ICQ 44065387 From noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to Fri Jul 20 16:22:59 2001 From: noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to (robyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Law.com (CA) article. In-Reply-To: <20010720225404.12655.qmail@web11207.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: http://www.law.com/regionals/ca/stories/edt0720a.shtml From declan at well.com Fri Jul 20 15:10:34 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What Adobe says about Monday's meeting In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720155921.00c77180@mail.paultopia.net>; from paul@paultopia.net on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 04:00:22PM -0600 References: <20010720171721.A32406@cluebot.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20010720155921.00c77180@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <20010720181034.A3183@cluebot.com> EFF is also refusing to release the letter. They say, with ample justification, that it would be seen as damaging to negotiations on Monday. The net effect, though, is that we're left a little in the dark, at least for now. -Declan On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 04:00:22PM -0600, Paul Gowder wrote: > Thanks Declan. This should make it absolutely clear the level of BS behind > Adobe's actions. > > > > >I asked for a copy of the letter and she said she could not give it > >to me since she thought it might be "privileged." > > BS > > >I asked her if there's a chance the meeting will lead to Adobe > >withdrawing their complaint against Sklyarov. She replied: "I have no > >idea. On that I couldn't comment, nor would I even if I knew the > >answer. The purpose of the discussions on Monday are just to have a > >frank discussion of what the current issues are." > > > In other words, a therapy session. > > > -- > -Paul Gowder > > "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." > - Homer Simpson > > > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From bombara at earthlink.net Fri Jul 20 19:43:22 2001 From: bombara at earthlink.net (Robert Hunter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] question about digest Message-ID: <20010720194322.A11772@totonka.meraki.net> This list is interesting to me. When I subscribed I selected to have the list sent in daily digest format, but I am still getting several mails/day. Is there someway I can fix this? Thank you, RH From nick at zork.net Fri Jul 20 19:51:02 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] question about digest In-Reply-To: <20010720194322.A11772@totonka.meraki.net>; from bombara@earthlink.net on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 07:43:22PM -0700 References: <20010720194322.A11772@totonka.meraki.net> Message-ID: <20010720195102.H584@zork.net> Begin Robert Hunter quotation: > When I subscribed I selected to have the list sent in daily digest > format, but I am still getting several mails/day. Is there someway > I can fix this? If you go to http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov/ you should be able to enter in your e-mail address and password. This will allow you to change the options on your subscription. If you have forgotten your password, the system can mail it to you. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From kris at firstworld.net Fri Jul 20 15:20:10 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov Protest NOT on Hold In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010720151423.0147ef10@pop.firstworld.net> At 02:30 PM 7/20/2001 -0700, Len Sassaman wrote: >Something to remember: The EFF did not initiate the protests. If I recall >correctly, that was, *cough* one of the boycottadobe.com folks. > >Surely Adobe can't expect the EFF to be able to cancel the protests. > >The EFF obviously can't be a part of them. I wholeheartly applaud the work >the EFF has done to get to the table with Adobe, and wish them the best of >luck on Monday. > >The EFF isn't "backing down" here. They should *not* kiss the oppurtunity >to meet with Adobe. Please understand this. > >Let's show our support for Dmitry in the streets. And when Adobe withdraws >their complaint, we'll take our rallies to the DOJ. And when Dmitry is >released, we'll all buy him a beer. > >Free Dmitry! > Right, the EFF did not initiate the protests and they can certainly refuse to join them. However, they can't stop them - the protests are going to happen - unless by some miracle Abode completely caves to our demands Monday morning. I am asking the EFF refrain from claiming that the "Protests are on Hold" - which is now the lead on their web site and change it to a more accurate, "EFF temporarily withdrawing support from Abode protests". Kris From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 20 19:55:38 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: [nylug-talk] pleeease arrange a monday protest. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: stuyman@confusion.net, if that is your real name, no protests are off. Dmitry sits in jail. We protest until he is out. oo--JS. On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Laurence Berland wrote: > For those unaware, EFF is in talks with Adobe, and so the protest is off > at least for now... > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > > > > > > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Jon Bober wrote: > > > > > perhaps someone close to the area could actually scout out the building? i > > > would be willing to do this if i can leave work early (in the next 20 > > > minutes.) would this be worth the effort? is someone closer? i am at > > > Washington Square Park right now. > > > > > > At 11:40 AM 7/20/01 -0700, you wrote: > > > > I know the block. I believe that the building is simply an office > > building. The telephone number does not answer. The site is good for the > > protest. We will be able to tell people going to the library about > > Adobe's plans to shut down all public libraries. And that Adobe has taken > > the first step, by jailing one who simply made it possible for owners of > > Adobe jacketed ebooks to make fair use of their own bought and paid for > > property. > > > > oo--JS. > > > > > > Laurence Berland > http://www.isp.northwestern.edu > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From proclus at iname.com Fri Jul 20 20:08:40 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] frank discussions? what is that? In-Reply-To: <20010720171721.A32406@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <200107210308.f6L38hu06742@moerbeke> On 20 Jul, Declan McCullagh wrote: > The purpose of the discussions on Monday are just to have a > frank discussion of what the current issues are." > > -Declan I've been holding my piece and keeping to the EFF line until now. What possible benefit could come from "frank discussions"? We need to build pressure on them so that they will withdraw their complaint against Dmitry. It now sounds as if these talks will distract from that goal. What am I missing in this picture? I am very happy that there will be street activists on hand in case these discussions are a flop, which now appears as certain. I only wish I could be there. Best of luck to all of you. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From declan at well.com Fri Jul 20 16:27:46 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DC-Baltimore-Northern Virginia action on Monday? In-Reply-To: <20010720192121.D1704@lupercalia.net>; from david@lupercalia.net on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 07:21:21PM -0400 References: <20010720132826.B24891@cluebot.com> <20010720192121.D1704@lupercalia.net> Message-ID: <20010720192746.A4365@cluebot.com> Some local activists came up with a plan to organize a gathering in front of the Justice Department on Pennsylvania Avenue on Monday afternoon. But EFF's announcement snarled these plans, and based on that message, I think the local organizer went to get a permit for Wednesday instead of Monday. Now it's probably too late to get a permit for Monday, I'd guess. -Declan Washington, DC On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 07:21:21PM -0400, David Merrill wrote: > On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 01:28:04PM -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > Anything planned? This is home to the largest concentration of media, > > um, talent in the U.S. Not to mention the FBI, DOJ, and Congress. > > Working on it, too. Set up a mailing list at > http://www.lupercalia.net/mailman/listinfo/free-dmitry-dc and a > webpage at http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ which doesn't contain > anything yet except a link to the mailing list. I'll be putting more > stuff up tonight and through the weekend. > > -- > Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net > Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net > Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org > > Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com > > Although UNIX is more reliable, NT may become more reliable with time. > --US Navy Fleet Introduction deputy director Ron Redman > explaining why the Navy uses NT > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From proclus at iname.com Fri Jul 20 20:15:45 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Ho ld In-Reply-To: <87u207uxs4.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <200107210315.f6L3Fmu06750@moerbeke> On 20 Jul, Klepht wrote: >>>>>> "A" == Andrea writes: > > A> I agree with those who believe this is a stall tactic to > A> diffuse the bad press. There are a lot of people worked up > A> about this and ready to move. > > So fuck this cancelled protest thing. Let's ROLL. Please be careful, because it could still be a trap. There is nothing worse than a bunch of street activists standing around waiting for the cell phone to ring... waiting for the police and the spin doctors to be ready for them. Did any of you see the Matrix? Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > Monday, July 23d. Same Bat-time, same Bat-channel. Adobe has plenty of > time before then to meet with the EFF and make concrete concessions. > > I'll see folks in San Hoser. > > FREE Dmitry, > > ~Klepht > > P.S. It might be a good idea for someone (boycottadobe.com?) to mirror > the event info on the EFF site before it goes down. > -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From jeme at brelin.net Fri Jul 20 20:23:06 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Ho ld In-Reply-To: <200107210315.f6L3Fmu06750@moerbeke> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001 proclus@iname.com wrote: > Did any of you see the Matrix? Hmm... The Matrix, you say? I can't imagine anyone in the computer industry would see The Matrix. Certainly not people involved in DMCA disputes like DeCSS. I just can't imagine a movie like that appealing to geeks. No... I would have to say that you're alone there. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From tom at thinkpix.com Fri Jul 20 20:06:53 2001 From: tom at thinkpix.com (tom moore) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: URGENT: factioning... References: Message-ID: <01c201c11192$31f63140$e2881bd8@onemain.com> > Exactly. It could really backfire, because the p.r. damage of the > protests is a large part of what they are looking to avoid. If you > protest them anyway, they have much less of an incentive to yield on > anything. Wrong! Adobe's trying to avoid the protest because it would be a p.r. disaster. If it doesn't happen, they've avoided having to address the issue (at least for now, and later it will be "old news"). If it goes off, OTOH, Adobe will have to scramble to fix their public image. *That's* the only way we could expect concrete results, and quickly. In addition, it will make other companies think twice about using jackbooted tactics like this, and with their support gone, it will also serve as a fulcrum to get the DMCA the hell out of US law. -- A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself. Or just as mad. From jgrosch at mooseriver.com Fri Jul 20 15:24:31 2001 From: jgrosch at mooseriver.com (Josef Grosch) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What Adobe says about Monday's meeting In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720155921.00c77180@mail.paultopia.net>; from paul@paultopia.net on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 04:00:22PM -0600 References: <20010720171721.A32406@cluebot.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20010720155921.00c77180@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <20010720152431.A14888@mooseriver.com> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 04:00:22PM -0600, Paul Gowder wrote: > Thanks Declan. This should make it absolutely clear the level of BS behind > Adobe's actions. > > > > >I asked for a copy of the letter and she said she could not give it > >to me since she thought it might be "privileged." > > BS > > >I asked her if there's a chance the meeting will lead to Adobe > >withdrawing their complaint against Sklyarov. She replied: "I have no > >idea. On that I couldn't comment, nor would I even if I knew the > >answer. The purpose of the discussions on Monday are just to have a > >frank discussion of what the current issues are." > > > In other words, a therapy session. placate (v.) To allay the anger of; appease `nuff said. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 4.3 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | www.bafug.org From adobedemonstrator at hotmail.com Fri Jul 20 15:24:33 2001 From: adobedemonstrator at hotmail.com (Adobe Demonstrator) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ATTN: EFF: suggested agreement Message-ID: ATTN: EFF -- please see suggested agreement as follows. Adobe Systems Incorporated 345 Park Avenue San Jose, California 95110-2704 USA Tel: 408-536-6000 Fax: 408-537-6000 July ____, 2001 U.S. Department of Justice United States Attorney c/o Assistant U.S. Attorney Matthew J. Jacobs Northern District of California 11th Floor, Federal Building 450 Golden Gate Avenue, Box 36055 San Francisco, California 94102 Dear Ladies and Gentlemen: Upon considering the implications of the prosecution of Dmitry Sklyarov, Adobe Systems Incorporated respectfully requests that the charges against him, as described in your release of July 17, 2001, be dropped as soon as possible, and that he be allowed to return to his home and family. In the event that charges against Mr. Sklyarov are not dropped, Adobe Systems Incorporated will testify first and foremost that we wish Mr. Sklyarov released at once; that we apologize for his detention and separation from his home and family, and that we no longer consider his actions in allegedly exposing security circumvention measures injurious to Adobe Systems Incorporated. Additionally, (check all that apply): [ ] We agree to pay reasonable expenses incurred by his detention and transportation by the U.S. Dept. of Justice. [ ] We agree to pay transportation fare to return Mr. Sklyarov to his home and family. Sincerely yours, ____________________________ Dr. Charles M. Geschke Chairman of the Board ____________________________ Bruce Chizen President and Chief Executive Officer ____________________________ Colleen M. Pouliot Senior Vice President, General Counsel, and Corporate Secretary _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From dacramer at home.com Fri Jul 20 20:43:49 2001 From: dacramer at home.com (David Cramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Welcome to new subscribers; updates Message-ID: Interestingly, the URL does not seem to lead to any possibility of contacting consulates in Canada by email. They are apparently protected from Canadians wielding dangerous emails. Strange, eh? Somehow, I'm not optimistic about communication working by regular mail or telephone. Or perhaps being wanted by the FBI for 8 years for leaving the US in 1968 as a draft dodger has made me overly pessimistic. Any advice from other Canadians with an angle on this? Regards, David On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Seth David Schoen wrote: (Introduction) . . . >PLEASE CALL >----------- > >If you are well-informed about the situation and would like to >express your opinion, I think the following are appropriate >recipients: > >(Please remember to avoid any abusive, harassing, or threatening >messages, which hurt Mr. Sklyarov's cause!) > >* Adobe Systems, Inc. > >http://www.adobe.com/ > >* Your U.S. Representative or Senators (if you are in the U.S.) > >http://www.congress.org/ > >* The U.S. Embassy, Consulate, or Interests Section for the place >where you live (if you are not in the U.S.) > >http://usembassy.state.gov/ > >* The U.S. Attorney General > >http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/ > >* The U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of California > >http://www.usaondca.com/ > >* The legal and technical media, and the local media for the place >where you live -- if they are not yet aware of the situation > >* Your local newspaper (you can write a letter to the editor) From wiggin at myrealbox.com Sat Jul 21 15:23:06 2001 From: wiggin at myrealbox.com (Robert Franklin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Activities in New Mexico - Its On Message-ID: <002801c11233$b7424450$6501a8c0@sarnath> Alright... it appears that something will be staged Monday, in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Time and location is still being organized. If you will be in the area or care to help, please contact us. freedmitry@jaraco.com should be up within the hour. Since the EFF is pulling out, is there another site listing the rallying points & contacts? I couldn't spot it an boycottadobe.com. Contacts: freedmitry@jaraco.com Jason Coombs: 505.456.6655 Rob Franklin: 505.550.5437 From rhetorical at home.com Fri Jul 20 15:44:11 2001 From: rhetorical at home.com (Brendan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The bigger issue Message-ID: <001401c1116d$7e9dc1e0$6401a8c0@tycho> Even if the charges against Mr. Sklyarov are dropped, the DMCA still exists. If the case goes to trial and Mr. Sklyarov is convicted of toughtcrime (or as SOME of you like to call it, free speech) he could become a less than willing matyr. Even if he gets off, he'll still be in jail for a few months. What we need is a public outcry against the evils of the DMCA. -Brendan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/064c5f3f/attachment.htm From dredd at megacity.org Fri Jul 20 16:30:53 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Where EFF was at that time??? 8-O In-Reply-To: <062601c11173$6bf47a60$0100a8c0@sharhan> References: <001d01c11155$a0b085a0$0300a8c0@speakeasy.org> <062601c11173$6bf47a60$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: > > Where was EFF ?? They WERE fighting it. But, alas, money talks, >> and the big Media companies behind the DMCA had bought off enough >> members of the Congress. Excuse me, I mean they contributed > >Hm... Seems, strange things happens in your America. >Hope, this incident will teach people to deny cyberlaws, cursed by EFF. Nope. "The masses" are sheep, who believe whatever is spoon fed to them by the media. As soon as someone mentions "its for the kids", or "to protect ____ from hackers who want to break its secret codes", they distractedly nod their heads like bobblehead dolls and go back to napping until 10pm, because WWF is on then and you can't miss that! *sigh* D -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From paul at paultopia.net Fri Jul 20 15:16:12 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What Adobe says about Monday's meeting In-Reply-To: <20010720181034.A3183@cluebot.com> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720155921.00c77180@mail.paultopia.net> <20010720171721.A32406@cluebot.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20010720155921.00c77180@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720161516.00c79d60@mail.paultopia.net> Ah. So EFF put something in the letter that will make the activists trying to move these protests angry enough to disrupt negotiations, eh? At 04:10 PM 7/20/01, Declan McCullagh wrote: >EFF is also refusing to release the letter. They say, with ample >justification, that it would be seen as damaging to negotiations on >Monday. The net effect, though, is that we're left a little in the >dark, at least for now. > >-Declan > > >On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 04:00:22PM -0600, Paul Gowder wrote: > > Thanks Declan. This should make it absolutely clear the level of BS > behind > > Adobe's actions. > > > > > > > > >I asked for a copy of the letter and she said she could not give it > > >to me since she thought it might be "privileged." > > > > BS > > > > >I asked her if there's a chance the meeting will lead to Adobe > > >withdrawing their complaint against Sklyarov. She replied: "I have no > > >idea. On that I couldn't comment, nor would I even if I knew the > > >answer. The purpose of the discussions on Monday are just to have a > > >frank discussion of what the current issues are." > > > > > > In other words, a therapy session. > > > > > > -- > > -Paul Gowder > > > > "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." > > - Homer Simpson > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Jul 20 16:43:24 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fw: Correction: Protests *not* cancelled In-Reply-To: <01d801c11174$23f79070$862ef90a@private> Message-ID: As a friend of mine has just pointed out, Hemos has managed to make the update rather ambiguous due to a double meaning of the term "hold". Reproduced below, with ambiguous part underlined: +++ A number of people have sent in the e-mail that just crossed the free-sklyarov mailing list, that essentially states that the EFF and Adobe will have a meeting July 23rd. They are putting planned proest on hold. Click below for more information.Update: 07/20 11:25 PM by H: Thanks to all the folks who e-mailed me; the EFF is asking for the protests to be put on hold, but from what I've seen in my inbox, the protests are still being planned. To reinforce this: The EFF is asking to hold the protests, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ but planners are still moving ahead with this. +++ I suppose this only works in favor of those of us who are still working on escalating momentum for the protests, though... On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Jey Kottalam wrote: > Well, I (and a bunch of others) got Hemos to fix the slashdot story > indicating that the protests were canceled. Slashdot is now "fixed". =) > > -Jey Kottalam > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: hemos > To: Jey Kottalam > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 4:32 PM > Subject: Re: Correction: Protests *not* cancelled > > > > Yep - just found out. Am updating story right now. > > > > > > > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Jey Kottalam wrote: > > > > > I would like to point out that while the EFF has withdrawn from from the > protests, the community hasn't. A quick look at the last 100 mails or so on > the free-sklyraov mailing list would reveal that nobody has been in support > off the EFF's request to call off the protest. We're going to continue the > protest, maybe against the DMCA and the Federal Gov't rather than against > Adobe. > > > > > > -Jey Kottalam > > > "My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am > right." --/usr/bin/fortune > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > > Jeff "hemos" Bates http://osdn.com > > hemos@slashdot.org http://hemos.net > > jeff.bates@osdn.com http://slashdot.org > > hemos@blockstackers.com http://blockstackers.com > > > > "I don't know where I'd be without happy accidents." > > -Jhasen Cooper > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- -alexf From ggross66 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 20 15:54:04 2001 From: ggross66 at yahoo.com (Grant Gross) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Things To Do In-Reply-To: <873d7rqko9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010720225404.12655.qmail@web11207.mail.yahoo.com> Self-promotion: NewsForge has the up-to-date information about the protests, as well as USENIX's reaction to Alan Cox's resignation earlier today: http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/07/20/199217&mode=thread Grant --- Klepht wrote: > Well, fortunately or unfortunately, we now have a > doubly-hard task of > getting the word out on Monday's protests. We need > to get info on all > of the major Free Software sites (Advogato, K5, and > Slashdot -- DOH!) > as well as out to LUGs and other groups that the > demonstration is > STILL ON. > > If you've sent out messages in the last 24 hours, > please send out a > follow-up with the simple information that the game > is STILL ON. We'll > be protesting as planned on Monday morning. > > If we had a hard time getting awareness before, we > have an even harder > time getting it now. But this was gonna be too easy, > anyways. We're > too damn good! We need a challenge. B-) > > Free Dmitry! > > ~Klepht > > P.S. I'm going to be incommunicado until Sunday > night late, so I look > forward to seeing lots of free-sklyarov mail when I > get in. > > P.P.S. Just ordered a beautiful 3x12 banner for the > San Jose > event. Guess what two words it has on it (Hint "F--- > D-----!"). > I've never ordered a banner before -- it's real > easy! Just look up > "Banner Printing" in your Yahoo! yellow pages. > > -- > klepht@eleutheria.org > http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From saaib at ciberlinux.net Fri Jul 20 15:12:40 2001 From: saaib at ciberlinux.net (Urivan Saaib) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Hold Message-ID: <200107202223.SAA09660@vs1.c-ber.net> Hi all, I've been following the discussion just reading and thinking of a any good international movement (I'm in Mexico), but the message Will just sent, its for me totally out of sense of the real problem, which is not Adobe by itself but we as developers. I wont like to code something in Mexico, and then be put in Jail just because some company with big money didn't like it. btw, planning in join to San Diego next week, so whatever i might help, just let me know. Regards, > In addition just because Adobe wants to talk doesn't mean that the DOJ is > going to drop the case. People still need to hear the message "Free > Sklyarov". Nor does the DMCA suddenly go away just because of a meeting > taking place with Adobe. I think it (may be) great that Adobe wants to > talk but Adobe is just a corporation. They can't change US law nor > do they have an incentive to do so on their own. > > -jr > > * Klepht [20010720 13:01]: >> >>>>> "WD" == Will Doherty writes: >> >> WD> Congratulations folks! The pressure we all have put on Adobe >> WD> has resulted in an agreement to meet with representatives from >> WD> the Electronic Frontier Foundation on this Monday morning, >> WD> July 23. >> >> WD> For that reason, EFF has decided to: >> >> WD> PUT THE JULY 23 PROTEST ON HOLD >> >> Will, >> >> We are NOT going to be able to get this kind of momentum behind us >> again if we pull the plug now. It's just NOT going to happen. >> >> So PLEASE be VERY confident that there will be CONCRETE >> results. >> >> Frankly, this is the best of all worlds for Adobe: they get a couple >> of eggheads to come into the office, they blow smoke up your asses for >> a couple of hours, and then show you the door. >> >> In other words, you're neutralized. Everyone who's pulled in favors to >> get this event publicized will be unable to make that happen again. I >> know I will. >> >> It seems like a REALLY BAD idea to me, so I hope you have a better >> feeling about the meeting than I do. If I were you, I'd wait until >> AFTER Monday to meet with Adobe. But that's just me. >> >> ~Klepht > > ---- > Josh Richards [JTR38/JR539-ARIN] > Geek Research, LLC - San Luis Obispo, CA - > KG6CYK - IP/Unix/telecom/knowledge/coffee/security/crypto/business/geek _______________________________________________________ Urivan Saaib Presidente CiberNET Mexico Email: saaib@c-ber.net From pedro at tastytronic.net Fri Jul 20 21:06:43 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago protests are ON for Monday Morning! Message-ID: <20010720230643.D10168@tastytronic.net> We acted a little too soon in embracing plans to hold off on protests. Due to the community's decision to go ahead with demonstrations as well as the need to disseminate information regarding this error, the Chicago group is planning on the scheduled Monday morning protest at the Dirksen federal building downtown. Anyone interested in joining us on Monday at 11 AM downtown in the loop is welcome to contact either pedro@tastytronic.net or inkblot@tastytronic.net for more information. We are currently busy writing up some mobilization information -- instructions, etc., which will be posted here* soon, as well as tomorrow morning faxing local media with information regarding the situation and our protests Monday. Please, if you live in the Chicago area and can join us, we need more support. Finally, I tried contacting some people from the Chicago area 2600 group, but so far have received no response. Are they willing to join in the protests? Yours, Peter A. Peterson * We'll also send mail to the luni-announce and luni-d list, as well as to the Depaul LUG and UFO CHicago sites. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- FBI has imprisioned a Russian software engineer for promoting and teaching the concept of "fair use". Read more: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Jul 20 16:19:11 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Activities in New Mexico - Its On In-Reply-To: <002801c11233$b7424450$6501a8c0@sarnath> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Robert Franklin wrote: > Since the EFF is pulling out, is there another site listing the > rallying points & contacts? I couldn't spot it an boycottadobe.com. I nominate http://freesklyarov.org, as they've been doing a good job of linking to already existing protest sites. -- -alexf From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 20 15:21:59 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! In-Reply-To: <20010720132437.E71604@networkcommand.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720152149.038e2ac8@pop3.norton.antivirus> We simply focus protests on the government. At 01:24 PM 7/20/2001 -0700, Jon O . wrote: >Please explain the issues below. > >Company files complaint. > >Researcher is arrested. > >Protest organized. > >Company gives in. Saves face. > >Government continues action against researcher. > >This outcome allows Adobe to save face, not get >TV cameras, etc in front of their building and >generally not look like the bad guy. > >This also tells other companies they can file complaint, >hand off the FBI and withdraw to prevent bad PR. > >The issue is the DMCA and always has been. > >I hope you guys get this figured out... > > > > > > >On 20-Jul-2001, Will Doherty wrote: > > Congratulations folks! > > > > The pressure we all have put on Adobe has resulted > > in an agreement to meet with representatives from > > the Electronic Frontier Foundation on this Monday > > morning, July 23. > > > > For that reason, EFF has decided to: > > > > PUT THE JULY 23 PROTEST ON HOLD > > > > Please help us act in good faith and postpone the > > protest until we have a chance to negotiate with > > Adobe. > > > > Of course, we can always rekindle the protest if > > Adobe does not agree to withdraw their complaint > > to the US Department of Justice regarding Dmitry > > Sklyarov and to refuse to pursue further prosecutions > > under the DMCA for cases that should be prevented > > under fair use provisions of US copyright law. > > > > And also, if the US Attorney's office insists > > on prosecuting Dmitry without a current complaint > > from Adobe, then we will continue protests directed > > at them rather than at Adobe. > > > > If you still feel that you have to protest on > > Monday, you are of course free to do so. > > However, it may be a more effective use of > > our collective energies to act in a coordinated > > way to get Dmitry out of jail. > > > > I am writing a media release to this effect as > > soon as I sent this email to you... wanted you > > all to know first. > > > > Free Dmitry, > > > > Will Doherty > > Online Activist / Media Relations > > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > > Web http://www.eff.org > > > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > > ------- > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From mkbilbo at cdcla.com Fri Jul 20 16:29:21 2001 From: mkbilbo at cdcla.com (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Los Angeles References: <20010720231228.WHGP18323.mta09.onebox.com@onebox.com> Message-ID: <007201c11173$ce0cc860$3088d790@tti.com> I haven't seen much talk about it yet. There was, at one point, an Adobe office down in Irvine. I was thinking of calling to see if they're still there but things have been busy today. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I could pull off Monday even if there was something around here. But then, again, given I expect Adobe to blow off the EFF on Monday, there could always be a round two... I mean, I'd like to do more than just buy a T-shirt. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Strauss" To: Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 4:12 PM Subject: [free-sklyarov] Los Angeles > > > Are there any protests planned for Los Angeles? > > -C.L. > > __________________________________________________ > FREE voicemail, email, and fax...all in one place. > Sign Up Now! http://www.onebox.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From saaib at ciberlinux.net Fri Jul 20 16:22:29 2001 From: saaib at ciberlinux.net (Urivan Saaib) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Bit quiet all of a sudden... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107202338.TAA13929@vs1.c-ber.net> We like freedom, but we like to eat too ! ;) Just returned... ---Reply to mail from Xcott Craver about [free-sklyarov] Bit quiet all of a sudden... > Just a test. > ---End reply _______________________________________________________ Urivan Saaib Presidente CiberNET Mexico Email: saaib@c-ber.net Tel: (6) 175.71.95 Cel: (6) 170.40.88 From pablos at kadrevis.com Fri Jul 20 16:40:48 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Activities in New Mexico - Its On In-Reply-To: <002801c11233$b7424450$6501a8c0@sarnath> References: <002801c11233$b7424450$6501a8c0@sarnath> Message-ID: <1410047.995647248@[10.0.1.220]> Boycott Adobe is now hosting the master list of rallies going on around the planet. If you are planning a rally that is not listed here, please send appropriate information to me ASAP. Thanks, pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From pedro at tastytronic.net Fri Jul 20 21:31:05 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago area mailing list Message-ID: <20010720233105.F284@tastytronic.net> Please subscribe to: http://ufo.chicago.il.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sklyarov-chicago/ if you are interested in joining the Chicago protest on Monday. We'll discuss plans and instructions through that forum. You can also email me if you'd rather not subscribe. Free Dmitry, pedro -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- FBI has imprisioned a Russian software engineer for promoting and teaching the concept of "fair use". Read more: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From nick at zork.net Fri Jul 20 16:25:09 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Apologies Message-ID: <20010720162509.G584@zork.net> Apologies for the downtime on the list. Zork.net's motherboard died about half an hour ago, and it took me a while to get a spare in. Should run fine now. -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 20 15:51:02 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Things To Do Message-ID: <873d7rqko9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Well, fortunately or unfortunately, we now have a doubly-hard task of getting the word out on Monday's protests. We need to get info on all of the major Free Software sites (Advogato, K5, and Slashdot -- DOH!) as well as out to LUGs and other groups that the demonstration is STILL ON. If you've sent out messages in the last 24 hours, please send out a follow-up with the simple information that the game is STILL ON. We'll be protesting as planned on Monday morning. If we had a hard time getting awareness before, we have an even harder time getting it now. But this was gonna be too easy, anyways. We're too damn good! We need a challenge. B-) Free Dmitry! ~Klepht P.S. I'm going to be incommunicado until Sunday night late, so I look forward to seeing lots of free-sklyarov mail when I get in. P.P.S. Just ordered a beautiful 3x12 banner for the San Jose event. Guess what two words it has on it (Hint "F--- D-----!"). I've never ordered a banner before -- it's real easy! Just look up "Banner Printing" in your Yahoo! yellow pages. -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From mlc67 at columbia.edu Fri Jul 20 16:22:56 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] boycottadobe.com logo Message-ID: <20010720162256.A13606@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> I just wanted to comment on the modified Adobe logo on the boycottadobe.com website. I'm not clear what the artist is trying to communicate by inserting the Communist hammer/sickle in the Adobe logo. It seems that Adobe suffers from an excess of Capitalism and all its inherent evils rather than an excess of Communism. And, while I'm not myself a Communist, I'd have trouble feeling a part of any movement (and we ARE building a movement, right here on this list) that participates in the kind of red-baiting implied by equating Communism with all things evil. I further note that Mr. Sklyarov is from Russia, a part of the world which is closely associated with Communism. I apologize if I'm reading too much into it, but it seems to me we have to be careful about symbolism and what kind of message we're sending. -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // cell: +1 (646) 382-7220 // "facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - aldous huxley -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/f459ad95/attachment.pgp From david at lupercalia.net Fri Jul 20 16:45:57 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: ; from jays@panix.com on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 02:32:57PM -0400 References: <87ofqfzfuq.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010720194557.B2772@lupercalia.net> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 02:32:57PM -0400, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > All those who will be in front of the New York City Adobe offices, across > the street from the New York Public Library, at noon Monday 23 July 2001, > say "Aye". > > Aye. > > Let us count, organize, and protest. Can I hear an `Amen'? ;-) Anybody that's never done anything like this, don't hold back. All it takes is some guts to stand up to a corporate bully. Just show up and it will make a difference. Remember: Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. -- Goethe -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ I'm not one of those who think Bill Gates is the devil. I simply suspect that if Microsoft ever met up with the devil, it wouldn't need an interpreter. --InfoWorld Editor Nicholas Petreley From rew at erebor.com Fri Jul 20 21:41:19 2001 From: rew at erebor.com (Ryan Waldron) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Apologies In-Reply-To: <20010720162509.G584@zork.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Nick Moffitt wrote: > Apologies for the downtime on the list. Zork.net's motherboard died > about half an hour ago, and it took me a while to get a spare in. > Should run fine now. Is anyone else getting two copies of everything? Is this related to this hardware burp? -- Ryan Waldron ||| http://www.erebor.com ||| rew@erebor.com "The web goes ever, ever on, down from the site where it began..." From crawford at goingware.com Fri Jul 20 21:52:06 2001 From: crawford at goingware.com (Michael D. Crawford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Letter to Adobe HR Message-ID: <3B590A76.ABA3384B@goingware.com> I sent the following email just now to Cheryl Erickson, a member of the Adobe HR Department who had been considering me for a position with the company. Best, Mike --- Subject: I withdraw my application on principle Cheryl, This is quite difficult for me, but I feel that as a matter of principal I must withdraw my application for the Photoshop Software Engineering Manager and the other positions I recently applied for at Adobe Systems. The following letter which I just mailed to many of my friends and family explains why in more detail. But if you don't want to read the whole thing, at least read this: http://www.goingware.com/reputation/ Thank you for your help. I look forward to better days, when programmers can do their work without fear. Regards, Michael D. Crawford -- Subject: Free Dmitry Friends, I have long held the belief that computer programs are constitutionally protected free speech. They are, after all, how us programmers communicate with each other. This is also the opinion of at least one federal court, although it is yet to be tested by the Supreme Court. However, on July 16, Russian computer programmer Dmitry Sklarov was arrested by the FBI for writing a computer program and presenting a paper on it at a security conference in Las Vegas. His paper, "eBooks Security: Theory and Practice", exposed the woefully inadequate security schemes used to copy protect Adobe eBooks ("secure" electronic publications, basically encrypted PDF files). If you have PowerPoint, you can get his presentation here: http://www.download.ru/defcon.ppt You can purchase, and download a free trial version of Advanced eBook Processor here: http://www.elcomsoft.com/aebpr.html Rather thank thanking him for revealing their engineering flaws, Adobe made a complaint to the FBI, and the FBI arrested him under the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. He is being held without bail, out of communication with his wife and children, in a foreign country, facing a $500,000 fine and five years in federal prison. The digital millenium copyright act is clearly unconstitutional, not just in that it violates free speech for programmers, but that it violates fair use - the right of citizens to make limited copies of copyrighted materials for certain uses such as backup and academic research. If you want to know more about Dmitry's case, please visit: http://www.boycottadobe.com/ You'll find pictures there of Dmitry, and of his wife and children, who I am sure miss him greatly. And please consider joining the Electronic Frontier Foundation, which is pressing two other court cases to try to have the DMCA ruled unconstitutional and will lend his support to Dmitry once the U.S. Marshalls tell them where he is, you can do so here: http://www.eff.org/support/ I leave you with the following words of wisdom, spoken 100 years ago. Make a Bonfire of Your Reputations http://www.goingware.com/reputation/ It's hard for me to write this letter as I just applied for a position as Photoshop Software Engineering Manager at Adobe Systems, the creator of eBooks. Times have been hard for me and my little family for quite some time, and that would be a good job for me for which I feel I am quite qualified, but I know it would be wrong to fail to speak out on this abuse of Dmitry's constitutional rights, and the rights of software engineers everywhere. Please pass this mail on to anyone who might be interested to hear it. Ever Faithful, Michael D. Crawford GoingWare Inc. - Expert Software Development and Consulting http://www.goingware.com/ crawford@goingware.com Tilting at Windmills for a Better Tomorrow. From sam at dasbistro.com Fri Jul 20 21:52:25 2001 From: sam at dasbistro.com (Sam Phillips) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Apologies In-Reply-To: ; from rew@erebor.com on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 11:41:19PM -0500 References: <20010720162509.G584@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010720215225.U20615@dasbistro.com> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 11:41:19PM -0500, Ryan Waldron wrote: > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Nick Moffitt wrote: > > > Apologies for the downtime on the list. Zork.net's motherboard died > > about half an hour ago, and it took me a while to get a spare in. > > Should run fine now. > > Is anyone else getting two copies of everything? Is this related to > this hardware burp? > I believe it is related to the MailMan upgrade burp. I've notified Nick, hopefully he can fix it. -- Sam Phillips http://www.dasbistro.com Reno Nevada From kupek at ntplx.net Fri Jul 20 22:05:22 2001 From: kupek at ntplx.net (Chad Horton) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fighting the DMCA Message-ID: <003f01c111a2$c0f0b860$0101a8c0@gungnir> I've had a thought that I've been tossing around for a few months now, but haven't had any idea what to make of it. With these new events, and the DMCA coming closer and closer to the public eye, I'm wondering if I might be able to contribute something useful to the fight to get rid of it. So far, most of the defenses of things like DeCSS that I've seen focus on arguing soruce code as a form of speech. IMO, this is a bit of a stretch and doesn't seem to have done all that good of a job. Has anyone ever considered an attack on the DMCA under the 2nd Amendment, the right to bear arms? As I understood it from my American Political Systems class, the 2nd Amendment was created to preserve the power of the people to stand up to the Federal Government if it ever got too Big Brother-like (Yes, I realize that specific term didn't exist at the time). In many ways, "circumvention devices" are much like weapons of the internet. This alone may seem like a bit of a symblolic stretch of the original intent, but dictionary.com defines arm(s) as "A weapon, especially a firearm", and also "(Law) Anything which a man takes in his hand in anger, to strike or assault another with; an aggressive weapon. --Cowell. Blackstone". With all the effort that the MPAA went through comparing DeCSS to a crowbar used to break into a museum, it could certainly be argued that things like DeCSS and the Advanced eBook Processor as weapons. Of course, pushing these as weapons could also do just as much damage if not handled carefully. I had made a post on slashdot.org about this awhile ago, under the username Gerad. I never got any interesting feedback about it, other than "Wow, that's a really interesting idea". If folks on this list think this idea has merit, I'm thinking about writing the EFF about it to see what they think. ---- Chad "kupek" Horton | kupek@ntplx -dot- net ICQ:1994680 | AIM:KupekCH ~Free...The Dream Within~ From jstyre at jstyre.com Fri Jul 20 22:09:11 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fighting the DMCA In-Reply-To: <003f01c111a2$c0f0b860$0101a8c0@gungnir> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010720220657.00d78810@earthlink.net> At 01:05 AM 07/21/2001 -0400, Chad Horton wrote: >I've had a thought that I've been tossing around for a few months now, but >haven't had any idea what to make of it. With these new events, and the DMCA >coming closer and closer to the public eye, I'm wondering if I might be able >to contribute something useful to the fight to get rid of it. > >So far, most of the defenses of things like DeCSS that I've seen focus on >arguing soruce code as a form of speech. IMO, this is a bit of a stretch and >doesn't seem to have done all that good of a job. You wound me, sir, you *wound* me. See, I wrote the Programmers and Academics' Amicus Brief in the 2600 appeal, which argues nothing but that code is speech. ;-) http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/MPAA_DVD_cases/20010126_ny_progacad_amicus.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From nick at zork.net Fri Jul 20 22:22:48 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Apologies In-Reply-To: <20010720215225.U20615@dasbistro.com>; from sam@dasbistro.com on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 09:52:25PM -0700 References: <20010720162509.G584@zork.net> <20010720215225.U20615@dasbistro.com> Message-ID: <20010720222248.I584@zork.net> Begin Sam Phillips quotation: > On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 11:41:19PM -0500, Ryan Waldron wrote: > > Is anyone else getting two copies of everything? Is this related to > > this hardware burp? > > I believe it is related to the MailMan upgrade burp. I've notified > Nick, hopefully he can fix it. I have a few duplicates of my own, and prefer them to lost mail :). Are you seeing regular duplicates, or is it only for a few messages? I don't have any cron jobs left over from the old runqueue program, and only have the newer qrunner set up. Let me know if you continue to see these into the night. I think they'll appear occasionally as zork's mail queue is flushed, but should be gone by morning (knock wood). -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From jcolter11374 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 20 22:25:51 2001 From: jcolter11374 at hotmail.com (John Colter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fighting the DMCA Message-ID: I see your point. However, I am not exactly sure how the courts have interpreted the second amendment in its relation to private gun ownership (meaning that there are obviously some limitations imposed by the current court system). Also I think that it would possibly confuse the public that we are "cyber terrorists" or something to that effect. That is just MO YMMV. >From: "Chad Horton" >To: >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fighting the DMCA >Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 01:05:22 -0400 > >I've had a thought that I've been tossing around for a few months now, but >haven't had any idea what to make of it. With these new events, and the >DMCA >coming closer and closer to the public eye, I'm wondering if I might be >able >to contribute something useful to the fight to get rid of it. > >So far, most of the defenses of things like DeCSS that I've seen focus on >arguing soruce code as a form of speech. IMO, this is a bit of a stretch >and >doesn't seem to have done all that good of a job. Has anyone ever >considered >an attack on the DMCA under the 2nd Amendment, the right to bear arms? As I >understood it from my American Political Systems class, the 2nd Amendment >was created to preserve the power of the people to stand up to the Federal >Government if it ever got too Big Brother-like (Yes, I realize that >specific >term didn't exist at the time). In many ways, "circumvention devices" are >much like weapons of the internet. This alone may seem like a bit of a >symblolic stretch of the original intent, but dictionary.com defines arm(s) >as "A weapon, especially a firearm", and also "(Law) Anything which a man >takes in his hand in anger, to strike or assault another with; an >aggressive >weapon. --Cowell. Blackstone". With all the effort that the MPAA went >through comparing DeCSS to a crowbar used to break into a museum, it could >certainly be argued that things like DeCSS and the Advanced eBook Processor >as weapons. Of course, pushing these as weapons could also do just as much >damage if not handled carefully. > >I had made a post on slashdot.org about this awhile ago, under the username >Gerad. I never got any interesting feedback about it, other than "Wow, >that's a really interesting idea". If folks on this list think this idea >has >merit, I'm thinking about writing the EFF about it to see what they >think. > >---- >Chad "kupek" Horton | kupek@ntplx -dot- net >ICQ:1994680 | AIM:KupekCH >~Free...The Dream Within~ > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net Fri Jul 20 22:28:26 2001 From: branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net (Branden Robinson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] URGENT: factioning to avoid looking like we are factioning seems highly quixotic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010721002826.A10587@deadbeast.net> [I have been a member of EFF since last year.] Mr. McCandlish, > It'd just be a day or a few days at most. (Days that could actually be > used for better planning, more organizing, etc. EFFector did NOT go > out last night with the alert, and is on hold until we sort this out. Thank you for showing restraint here. I was quite alarmed when I read what I perceived to be imperious grandstanding on the part of EFF ("no need to protest now, the grown-ups are handling it"). I agree with a great many of the other folks on this list who feel that Adobe's highest priority is to keep publicity low, and that anything they can do to squelch noteworthy public protest is to be done. > > If Adobe asks why the protests are still occuring, say > > "We're not the protesters; they won't be happy until the charges are > > dropped." > > This will look very disingenuous to them. If I were an Adobe rep, I > wouldn't buy a word of it. EFF genuinely DOES have to discourage and > distance itself from Mon. protests. And I personally think they will > be counterproductive. IF Adobe sticks to its guns, we CAN endorse > and advertise protests, and those protests would be highly on-point. I disagree. Adobe stirred up a hornet's nest. Why not paraphrase some of the emails you've seen? Adobe fucked up. This community is diverse and not under central command and control; I think that's a *strength*, not a weakness (viz. the Internet itself). EFF is an important organization, but it doesn't speak for everyone, and if Adobe doesn't want to motivate grass-roots campaigns against them in the future, they should take off the jackboots. I'll refrain from any further analogies along those lines, lest I invoke Godwin's Law. At any rate, the persecution of Dmitry Sklyarov comes hot on the heels of legal harassment, along with the threat of fines, against the Free Software community for developing a graphics program called KIllustrator (apparently the name was too close to "Illustrator"). Irrespective of the merit of such a claim, Adobe has since asserted that the German IP attorney firm was acting indepedently to act in this harassing manner (of an *individual* software developer, I might add, though, that they threated the University for which he worked for good measure). (References: http://lists.kde.org/?l=koffice-devel&m=99405898605976&w=2 http://lwn.net/2001/0704/desktop.php3 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/20431.html ) I think it's important to view Adobe's actions over the past couple of days in the context of the past month. Is Adobe in the habit of farming out the "bad cop" role to other parties, so that they can conviently utter "it was all just a big misunderstanding; we're sorry, but things are now out of our control" later? Is all this aggression against the individual software developer just an unfortunate confluence of coincidences? Perhaps. But if these actions aren't a coordinated effort of harassment, then they can be interpreted as an institutionalized disregard for the rights of individuals to communicate freely in the electronic realm. And it is because EFF professes to defend those very rights that I joined. Please give no quarter when negotiating with Adobe. -- G. Branden Robinson | Psychology is really biology. Debian GNU/Linux | Biology is really chemistry. branden@deadbeast.net | Chemistry is really physics. http://www.deadbeast.net/~branden/ | Physics is really math. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010721/21bd1365/attachment.pgp From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 20 22:37:34 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: URGENT: factioning... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Stanton McCandlish wrote: > At 3:07 PM -0700 on 7/20/01, Neale Pickett wrote: > > > picketing Adobe might be a bad > > move, seeing as how they're at least going through the motions of doing > > what we asked them to. > > Exactly. It could really backfire, because the p.r. damage of the > protests is a large part of what they are looking to avoid. If you > protest them anyway, they have much less of an incentive to yield on > anything. And a second protest will not get much, if any, press. > This is a one-shot deal. It'll only be news the first time it > happens. That time should really count. -- > > > -- > Stanton McCandlish mech@eff.org http://www.eff.org/~mech Please forgive the directness of my statements. This is a simple tactical error. So simple and so well understood by so many, that I ask: Why does the EFF persist in the error? oo--JS. From ausage at ausage.com Fri Jul 20 22:37:10 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RANT!!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072101002400.00464@frankie> On July 20, 2001 11:43 pm, you wrote: > Interestingly, the URL does not seem to > lead to any possibility of contacting consulates in Canada by email. > They are apparently protected from Canadians wielding dangerous > emails. Strange, eh? > > Somehow, I'm not optimistic about communication working by regular > mail or telephone. Or perhaps being wanted by the FBI for 8 years for > leaving the US in 1968 as a draft dodger has made me overly > pessimistic. Any advice from other Canadians with an angle on this? This morning I called the US Consultat here in Toronto and spoke to someone in the "Trade" department. A very nice lady, who although clueless about this issue, listened to my complaint and promised to start a log off eveyone who called and pass it on to higher authoritites. When I outlined the issues to her and told her I was very concerned since Dimitry Sklarov was arrested for doing something that is perfectly legal for me as a Canadian to do. She suggest I should speak to the Canadian gov't and I told her I had already contacted my Member of Parliament and the Minister. I informed her that neither I, nor my business, would be purchasing Adobe products or for that matter any product where the intellectual property rights where controlled by interested in the United States. This is is not just about Dimitry or Adobe. It is about the United States -- which has a near monopoly on English languare IP -- using the DMCA to try and control intellectal property rights world wide. I just download the Adobe eBook Reader to see how it worked... A quote from the Readme.htm file: "To prevent unauthorized reading..." Now the last time I checked the Canadian Copyright Act, and the DMCA for that matter, "reading" was not one of the exclusive rights granted to authors to promote creativity in the arts and sciences. There are a number of things I can do with a copyrighted work in Canada that are illegal in the US. (i.e. I can copy a music CD and give to a friend legally because I payed the royally to the music producers when I purchased a blank CDR or cassette or video tape), now there is one more. It appears that Americas are about to lose their "right" to read with the DMCA. Seems to me RMS wrote an essay about this a while back. Perhaps his vision is true. Canada is studying revisions to the Copyright Act right now and I am going to do my best to see that we don't get a DMCA. Meanwhile, this afternoon Redhat called to negotiate a service contract for my systems and several of my clients. I regretfully informed them that since they are a US based company, while the prosecution of Dimitry Sklyarov continues I will be unable to do business with them and am dumping their product in favour of one from a different source. If enough people outside the US inform enough companies inside the US that because of the DMCA they are going to take their business elsewhere in the world the US gov't will have a real motivation to change the law. For me that means 90% of the books, 95% of the movies, 80% of the music are products I will no longer purchase. I don't know if it's possible, but I can image the effect a major drop in sales of American music, books, music and software would have. Sorry for the waste of band with.... but I had to get this said.... From koolman at visi0n.net Fri Jul 20 17:23:10 2001 From: koolman at visi0n.net (GeEk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just wondering (because maybe you don't live in the US). But why are you all gonna protest because some Russian got arrested for breaking the law?? Don't you have anything better to do with you're time??? (this isn't a flame but if that's how you want to take it be my guest, just wondering why we are soo concerned about some russian.. the principle?? If you want to protest something why not put you're effort into blowing open the Gary Condit fuck up... ) I mean this ass hole fucked some Intern and then killed her... maybe I'm a little crazy here (which I have been told oftern that I am) but that seems a hell of a lot more important then some fucking Commie. Just my 2 cents (after about 12 beers...) -- LinSys http://www.visi0n.net Unix / Security Online Info ----- When you die and your life flashes before your eyes does that include the part where your life flashes before your eyes? ----- On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Len Sassaman wrote: > > http://www.boycottadobe.com/pages/rallies.html > > is now the home for the rally announcements. If you're planning on > attending one, please visit this page for info. If you're holding one, > please let us know so we can add it to the page. > > Thanks! > > -- > > Len Sassaman > > Security Architect | > Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." > | > http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens > > > > > > > > > > From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jul 20 20:39:06 2001 From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, GeEk wrote: > Just wondering (because maybe you don't live in the US). But why are you > all gonna protest because some Russian got arrested for breaking the law?? An unconstitutional law. A law which limits freedom in a country which is ultimately governed by "Congress shall make no law..." If you can't catch that clue, there is no hope. > Don't you have anything better to do with you're time??? It isn't 'my time' in the above situation, I've gotta go ask my master before I can answer your question. It is however a nicely gilded cage. > (this isn't a flame but if that's how you want to take it be my guest, > just wondering why we are soo concerned about some russian.. the > principle?? If you want to protest something why not put you're effort > into blowing open the Gary Condit fuck up... ) No accounting for taste. > I mean this ass hole fucked some Intern and then killed her... maybe I'm a > little crazy here (which I have been told oftern that I am) but that seems > a hell of a lot more important then some fucking Commie. If you got proof, run with it...nobody else seems to have any proof. > Just my 2 cents (after about 12 beers...) ;) -- ____________________________________________________________________ Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night: God said, "Let Tesla be", and all was light. B.A. Behrend The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From pinstripe at onebox.com Fri Jul 20 16:12:28 2001 From: pinstripe at onebox.com (Jeff Strauss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Los Angeles Message-ID: <20010720231228.WHGP18323.mta09.onebox.com@onebox.com> Are there any protests planned for Los Angeles? -C.L. __________________________________________________ FREE voicemail, email, and fax...all in one place. Sign Up Now! http://www.onebox.com From ConcernedActivist at peto.physics.wisc.edu Fri Jul 20 21:41:41 2001 From: ConcernedActivist at peto.physics.wisc.edu (Concerned Activist) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] pleass don't protest on monday Message-ID: Please don't protest on monday. I know that there are lots of people that have probably taken off work and made arrangements already. However, our goal is to free Dimitri. And I assure you we will be much more able to help Dimitri if we coordinate our efforts. United we stand divide we fall. Now, as for those of us who are hell bent on doing something on monday I urge you not to protest. However, let us take this opportunity to get togeather and inform the general public of Dimitri Sklyarov's wrongful conviction. Let's make flyers and pass them out. I assure you us hackers, nerds, and slashdotters aren't the only ones who value our first ammendment rights. So let's inform the people of this great land about the travesties that are being commited under the DMCA. Call TV stations and tell them that we are going to be out informing the public of Dimitri's wrongful arrest. Call radio shows and shock jockies (they love their first ammendment rights.) Write editorials to local papers. Let's coordinate and get this movement off the net and into people's cars and living rooms. If we work togeather we will free Dimitri Sklyarov. -A Concerned Activist "By silencing one man all of society is injured." -John Stuart Mill From izel at sulam.com Fri Jul 20 21:41:58 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slogan List Message-ID: Here's a list of slogans that people can use during Monday's protests against Adobe and the DMCA. Or during any earlier or later protests for similar purposes. Or on stickers, t-shirts, fliers, etc. http://izel.sulam.com/boycottadobe/slogans.html Submissions encouraged! - izel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010721/bf816760/attachment.html From augustz at bigfoot.com Fri Jul 20 22:09:17 2001 From: augustz at bigfoot.com (August Zajonc) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Don't cancel protests Message-ID: We need people banging the drums. This is about more than Dimitry, this is a chance to draw attention to an incredible bogus case. Shaky legal footing, under a bad law, with the FBI buying the same product they arrest him for. Why not make the most of it, this trumps DeCSS hands down. AZ From krburger at burger-family.org Fri Jul 20 22:48:46 2001 From: krburger at burger-family.org (Kenneth Burger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Results of meeting... Message-ID: <00f701c111a8$ceeb7580$0800a8c0@balthazar> Well, no one showed up at the planning meeting which means either no one on this list lives near Detroit or nobody cares. I will still however be going to the McNamara Federal Building at 477 Michigan Ave. and handing out flyers to people going in and to passers-by, even if I have to do this by myself and look like a lunatic. I'm going to make sure that the people of Detroit know what's going on. I'd do this on Monday except I have to work and cannot take it off. If you're interested in attending please drop on by the building. Bring your own sign and I'll have some fliers to give you to hand out if you wish. I will be there from probably 10 or 11 AM tomorrow till probably between 3 or 5 depending on how many people my efforts appear to be getting through to. I hope to see some people there to help out. Please note, that I have changed the location from 231 W. Lafayette because the McNamara building is more well known and there will doubtless be more people passing by to hand stuff out to. Well I shall hopefully see some of you tomorrow. Come support the cause and Dimitri. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010721/729139e9/attachment.htm From koolman at visi0n.net Fri Jul 20 19:49:55 2001 From: koolman at visi0n.net (GeEk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010720192611.00bfa1b0@flex.com> Message-ID: Reese, I know there are things about the U.S govt that you can't or aren't willing to understand. And if you really have such a small Brain that you can't see Condit is part of the murder then I really have nothing more to say to you.. once day you will learn more about the Media their filters, politics and Money... untill then continue to flame people for your ignorance..... I won't respond to any more of you're flames.. I know the truth and if you really belelive that "me" calling into the D.C police or anyone for that matter is really going to mean anything you might want to reevaluate your understanding of how the "System" works... it is't as it seems not even close.. -- LinSys http://www.visi0n.net Unix / Security Online Info ----- When you die and your life flashes before your eyes does that include the part where your life flashes before your eyes? ----- On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Reese wrote: > At 02:23 PM 7/20/01, dumbGeEk wrote: > > >into blowing open the Gary Condit fuck up... ) > > > >I mean this ass hole fucked some Intern and then killed her... > > Your proof that he killed her? You've shared it with the D.C. police > I take it? Condit is in custody now? Or should we downgrade this > fantastically strong assertion to just your wild assed guess, and send > the nice young men in clean white coats after you, to check you out? > > >maybe I'm a > >little crazy here (which I have been told oftern that I am) but that seems > >a hell of a lot more important then some fucking Commie. > > Anyone who cannot distinguish between Russian citizens who were victims > under communism and Communists deserves to be treated like a Communist. > You need more than two clue pills. > > >Just my 2 cents (after about 12 beers...) > > A little crazy? No. A lot drunk. Take two aspirin with the handful of > clue pills, you'll need them. > > Oh, this is the last time I'm going to leave your To: and Cc: includes > intact. If you don't have the style, grace or courtesy to send separate > emails to different lists, you deserve the hangover you should wake up > with and 10,000 more all at once too. Fuckhead. > > Reese > From lblunk at yahoo.com Fri Jul 20 22:54:13 2001 From: lblunk at yahoo.com (Larry Blunk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release Message-ID: <20010721055413.66022.qmail@web10004.mail.yahoo.com> The publishers have chimed in with their opinion on Skylarov's arrest and the wonderful DMCA. I should warn you all -- it's not for the weak of stomach. http://www.publishers.org/home/press/index.htm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net Fri Jul 20 22:58:05 2001 From: branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net (Branden Robinson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: URGENT: factioning... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010721005805.A11299@deadbeast.net> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 01:37:34AM -0400, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > Please forgive the directness of my statements. > > This is a simple tactical error. So simple and so well understood by so > many, that I ask: > > Why does the EFF persist in the error? Probably because until and unless Dmitry agrees to let EFF (or its agents) represent him legally, EFF has no special standing in this matter. EFF needs to present itself as being in a position to offer something. Asserting some kind of degree of control -- or at least influence -- over the protests, which Adobe doesn't want to see, is probably the only card EFF has to play at this point. I don't disagree necessarily with the EFF playing it this way -- having half a leg to stand on is better than none -- but in my letter to Mr. McCandlish I was trying to convey my opinion as a paid member of EFF that they should be as aggressive as possible in these negotiations, since EFF's position can only grow stronger in the future if they *are* retained by Mr. Sklyarov. Having won an agreement to sit down at the bargaining table, EFF has nothing to lose, so they might as well try to nail Adobe's balls to the wall. As Dmitry is as yet unrepresented (as far as I have heard), to have someone at the conference table this early in the going is a good thing. Consider the following scenarios: 1) Adobe calls of the negotiations because there are protestors outside + EFF can rightfully howl and bitch about this, and very effectively milk it in the press. You don't have to understand the DMCA to understand the freedom of the people peacably to assemble on public property outside the Adobe offices, and if Adobe bails because of that they're going to look very bad ("We will brook no criticism whatsoever"). 2) Adobe meets with EFF, smiles, nods, and doesn't do a damn thing. + EFF can milk this in the press too. The members of the mailing list can holler to all available news forums about Adobe's cynical attempt to manipulate the protestors, and if EFF does end up in meetings with Adobe again -- which will only happen when they are in a positon of greater strength than now, they can use Adobe's previous negotiations in bad faith as a weapon against them. 3) Adobe makes some token gesture which doesn't actually do anything to benefit Dmitry. + The most likely scenario and the most difficult to defend against. But that's all right, inevitably we're going to have to protest the federal government to get Dmity freed. If the protests go forward anyway, Adobe still gets their black eye and other U.S. companies get a message. 4) Adobe withdraws its complaint and calls for Dmitry's release and vows non-cooperation with the FBI, making the case more difficult to prosecute (remember, discovery hasn't taken place yet, and Adobe has the resources to resist with some effectiveness, and the DoJ has lower-hanging fruit to pick). + The most unlikely scenario, and as much of a victory as could possibly be expected from Adbobe, aside from a denunciation of the DMCA itself, so unlikely that I really don't see any point in speculating on it. -- G. Branden Robinson | "To be is to do" -- Plato Debian GNU/Linux | "To do is to be" -- Aristotle branden@deadbeast.net | "Do be do be do" -- Sinatra http://www.deadbeast.net/~branden/ | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010721/6b1b08db/attachment.pgp From pedro at tastytronic.net Fri Jul 20 23:01:02 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Info In-Reply-To: <20010720171015.C3820@freedevelopers.net>; from danielb@freedevelopers.net on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 05:10:15PM -0500 References: <20010720171015.C3820@freedevelopers.net> Message-ID: <20010721010102.Y284@tastytronic.net> Quoting Daniel E Baumann: > I hope that the protest is still going on in Chicago. When/where is it > happening? Why can't I post to this friggin list? Daniel and everyone else: The Chicago protest is STILL ON. Please subscribe to: http://ufo.chicago.il.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sklyarov-chicago/ for Chicago-specific plans and information. pedro -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- FBI has imprisioned a Russian software engineer for promoting and teaching the concept of "fair use". Read more: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Jul 20 23:02:48 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release In-Reply-To: <20010721055413.66022.qmail@web10004.mail.yahoo.com>; from lblunk@yahoo.com on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 10:54:13PM -0700 References: <20010721055413.66022.qmail@web10004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010720230248.P6900@zork.net> Larry Blunk writes: > The publishers have chimed in with their opinion on Skylarov's > arrest and the wonderful DMCA. I should warn you all -- it's not for the weak > of stomach. > > http://www.publishers.org/home/press/index.htm I'd be eager to hear suggestions for an appropriate response. Usually these folks are very strong on the freedom of speech; I wish they could see the free speech implications of suppressing software. (The same problem has arisen with the MPAA, which helped fight the CDA once upon a time. It seemed that the MPAA could appreciate the right to distribute sexually explicit materials, but not the right to distribute computer programs.) -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Jul 20 23:05:49 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010720195153.00e29ea0@flex.com>; from reeza@flex.com on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 08:01:40PM -1000 References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010720192611.00bfa1b0@flex.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010720195153.00e29ea0@flex.com> Message-ID: <20010720230549.Q6900@zork.net> Can you take the Gary Condit thread off-list? Please, list members, don't let off-topic threads drag out on this list. Our traffic is already high enough. If you want, I can create a separate free-sklyarov-but-not-condit and free-sklyarov-and-condit list for you. But please stop this thread here. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 20 23:06:29 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: URGENT: factioning... In-Reply-To: <20010721005805.A11299@deadbeast.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Branden Robinson wrote: > On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 01:37:34AM -0400, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > > Please forgive the directness of my statements. > > > > This is a simple tactical error. So simple and so well understood by so > > many, that I ask: > > > > Why does the EFF persist in the error? > > Probably because until and unless Dmitry agrees to let EFF (or its > agents) represent him legally, EFF has no special standing in this > matter. EFF needs to present itself as being in a position to offer > something. Asserting some kind of degree of control -- or at least > influence -- over the protests, which Adobe doesn't want to see, is > probably the only card EFF has to play at this point. > > I don't disagree necessarily with the EFF playing it this way -- > having half a leg to stand on is better than none -- but in my letter > to Mr. McCandlish I was trying to convey my opinion as a paid member > of EFF that they should be as aggressive as possible in these > negotiations, since EFF's position can only grow stronger in the > future if they *are* retained by Mr. Sklyarov. > > Having won an agreement to sit down at the bargaining table, EFF has > nothing to lose, so they might as well try to nail Adobe's balls to > the wall. > > As Dmitry is as yet unrepresented (as far as I have heard), to have > someone at the conference table this early in the going is a good > thing. > > Consider the following scenarios: > 1) Adobe calls of the negotiations because there are protestors outside > + EFF can rightfully howl and bitch about this, and very effectively > milk it in the press. You don't have to understand the DMCA to > understand the freedom of the people peacably to assemble on public > property outside the Adobe offices, and if Adobe bails because of that > they're going to look very bad ("We will brook no criticism > whatsoever"). > 2) Adobe meets with EFF, smiles, nods, and doesn't do a damn thing. > + EFF can milk this in the press too. The members of the mailing list > can holler to all available news forums about Adobe's cynical attempt to > manipulate the protestors, and if EFF does end up in meetings with > Adobe again -- which will only happen when they are in a positon of > greater strength than now, they can use Adobe's previous negotiations in > bad faith as a weapon against them. > 3) Adobe makes some token gesture which doesn't actually do anything to > benefit Dmitry. > + The most likely scenario and the most difficult to defend against. > But that's all right, inevitably we're going to have to protest the > federal government to get Dmity freed. If the protests go forward > anyway, Adobe still gets their black eye and other U.S. companies get > a message. > 4) Adobe withdraws its complaint and calls for Dmitry's release and vows > non-cooperation with the FBI, making the case more difficult to > prosecute (remember, discovery hasn't taken place yet, and Adobe has the > resources to resist with some effectiveness, and the DoJ has > lower-hanging fruit to pick). > + The most unlikely scenario, and as much of a victory as could possibly > be expected from Adbobe, aside from a denunciation of the DMCA itself, > so unlikely that I really don't see any point in speculating on it. > > -- > G. Branden Robinson | "To be is to do" -- Plato We mostly agree on the shape of the game tree. I think the probability of branch 4 is not tiny. oo--JS. From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 20 23:17:11 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: <20010720194557.B2772@lupercalia.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, David Merrill wrote: > On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 02:32:57PM -0400, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > > All those who will be in front of the New York City Adobe offices, across > > the street from the New York Public Library, at noon Monday 23 July 2001, > > say "Aye". > > > > Aye. > > > > Let us count, organize, and protest. > > Can I hear an `Amen'? ;-) We got a bunch already; here is another: Amen > > Anybody that's never done anything like this, don't hold back. All it > takes is some guts to stand up to a corporate bully. Just show up and > it will make a difference. > > Remember: > > Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. > Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. > -- Goethe Yes. He had a good one on follow-through too. > > -- > Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net We shall meet at 40th Street and Fifth Avenue at noon Monday. oo--JS. From mh_sklyarov at cryptonomicon.net Fri Jul 20 23:18:29 2001 From: mh_sklyarov at cryptonomicon.net (Matthew S. Hamrick) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov Controversy FAQ Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I've put a General FAQ for what I call "The Sklyarov Controversy." I'll be attempting to answer frequently asked questions about: 1. The people involved 2. What they did 3. Protest Actions 4. Resources for finding more information 5. DMCA and "Fair Use" background It is currently far from complete, and the EFF backing out of the protests has made me want to double-check the verity of the protest event section again. However, it's somewhat useful, if incomplete. Please feel free to contact me directly with upgrade / enhancement suggestions. http://www.cryptonomicon.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=FAQ&file=index&myfa q=yes&id_cat=8&categories=Sklyarov+Controversy -Matt Hamrick From paul at paultopia.net Fri Jul 20 23:18:39 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fighting the DMCA In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010720220657.00d78810@earthlink.net> References: <003f01c111a2$c0f0b860$0101a8c0@gungnir> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010721001735.0387a3b0@mail.paultopia.net> At 11:09 PM 7/20/01, James S. Tyre wrote: >See, I wrote the Programmers and Academics' Amicus Brief in the 2600 >appeal, which argues nothing but that code is speech. ;-) Oh now. Surely you also argued fair use as first amendment principle, right, right? =) -Paul -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 20 23:21:15 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: [nylug-talk] pleeease arrange a monday protest. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Alex Fabrikant wrote: > > I think it is the office, but I think it makes little difference. Perhaps > > Adobe has moved its offices, but we are protesting Adobe's part in jailing > > Dmitry, and it is near the library, and it is listed in several places as > > being the location of Adobe's office in New York. > > Keep in mind that while it may not matter to YOU where the protest is > held, if you get the attention of the media, and happen to be > protesting outside where Adobe once was and is no longer, the media > will cling on to that fact rather than anything else. What do you want > in the papers next morning, "Protest Against Adobe's Role In > Sklyarov's Arrest Held", or "Silly People Protest Against Adobe In The > Wrong Place, Bypassers Amused"? No. Because we are protesting at the New York Public Library. And no, because I know New York reporters. They are still smart. Finally, I deny the assumption. The Adobe offices are at 8 West 40th Street. And they have already stopped picking up the telephone. oo--JS. From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jul 20 23:26:22 2001 From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian Hicks) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday In-Reply-To: ; from koolman@visi0n.net on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 10:49:55PM -0400 References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010720192611.00bfa1b0@flex.com> Message-ID: <20010721012622.A10508@magic.com> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 10:49:55PM -0400, GeEk wrote: > > Reese, > > I know there are things about the U.S govt that you can't or aren't > willing to understand. And if you really have such a small Brain that you > can't see Condit is part of the murder then I really have nothing more to > say to you.. once day you will learn more about the Media their filters, > politics and Money... untill then continue to flame people for your > ignorance..... First off, Innocent until proven guilty, bro. As well as the fact that Ms. Levy is not known to be dead, although it is a possibility. And even if she is dead, perhaps she just got killed by a mugger on the street who hid the body well? There are many possibilities, so don't go jumping to conclusions when have so little information. Also, any media outlet would LOVE to break the story on what really happened, after some hyping, of course. Remember Watergate? You can expose political figures without jackbooted figures jumping out of black helicopters and killing you. And if that doesn't mean anything to you, show up to the protests with a sign saying "Gary Condit's a murderer", there's bound to be some media coverage, and then you can get your message out to more people who don't believe you, instead of just us. > I won't respond to any more of you're flames.. I know the truth and if you > really belelive that "me" calling into the D.C police or anyone for that > matter is really going to mean anything you might want to reevaluate > your understanding of how the "System" works... it is't as it seems not > even close.. Hey, call a media outlet, assuming you do have proof and aren't just a kook like the guy who used to live down the hall from me and make up conspiracies out of the blue. -- Brian Hicks* "Crush the lesser races! Conquer the PGP: 0xADDD1F16 galaxy! Incredible power, unlimited rice pudding, et cetera, et cetera." *Not Brian Behlendorf -- The Doctor -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010721/faa75ac9/attachment.pgp From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Jul 20 23:23:39 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fighting the DMCA In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010721001735.0387a3b0@mail.paultopia.net>; from paul@paultopia.net on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 12:18:39AM -0600 References: <003f01c111a2$c0f0b860$0101a8c0@gungnir> <4.3.2.7.2.20010720220657.00d78810@earthlink.net> <4.3.2.7.0.20010721001735.0387a3b0@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <20010720232339.A19918@zork.net> Paul Gowder writes: > At 11:09 PM 7/20/01, James S. Tyre wrote: > > >See, I wrote the Programmers and Academics' Amicus Brief in the 2600 > >appeal, which argues nothing but that code is speech. ;-) > > Oh now. Surely you also argued fair use as first amendment principle, > right, right? Please read the defendants' briefs and the briefs of amici curiae in support of them from _Universal v. Reimerdes_. They show great sophistication and depth. You can find them easily at EFF's and Cryptome's web sites. You might also enjoy reading the complaint in _Felten v. RIAA_. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From paul at paultopia.net Fri Jul 20 23:23:49 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA flyer Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010721002246.03872a10@mail.paultopia.net> Draft of flyer about DMCA, Sklyarov in plain text below (see the .doc format one in previous message, if it ever makes it past list message size limits). PG About the Digital Millenium Copyright Act What is Copyright? Copyright, in the United States, is an attempt to maximize the intellectual resources available to all. People who are create works literature, art, software programs, music, and others are given a limited monopoly they are permitted to keep people from making some unauthorized copies of their work, so they can sell them for a profit and stay in business to create more works. In exchange for this, the public (who used to be represented by the U.S. Government) demands certain concessions. There are three main concessions the public gets from copyright. 1. Fair use is the right to make unauthorized copies of works for certain protected purposes mainly for academics, reporting, or criticism. When a student quotes a book in a high school paper, she is making a fair use, and can't be stopped by the copyright owner. 2. First sale is the right to sell a copy over and over again, once it is made, as long as you don't make any new copies. When you read a book, then sell it to a used book store to be bought and read by someone else, you're exercising your rights under first sale. 3. Limited time copyrights are granted for a limited time. After that time expires, the work goes into the public domain it can be copied and used by anyone, for any reason. Unfortunately, a new law, called the DMCA, threatens all of those important rights. What is the DMCA? The DMCA is the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, passed by the U.S. Congress in 1999 [WAS IT 1999??], supposedly to update copyright law for electronic commerce and electronic content providers. Unfortunately, this law is very poorly written, and is now regularly used to crush free speech, and to eliminate those three rights explained above. The DMCA has one particularly bad section, called the anti-circumvention provision. This makes it a crime to break encryption used to prevent someone from getting access to electronic content. This also makes it a crime to "traffic" in a tool used to break that kind of encryption. This is written so broadly, that, in theory, decoding the sentence E-thay mca-day eally-ray ucks-say from the Pig Latin could be a crime. It doesn't matter why, either. Suppose you're a professor who wants to publish a paper criticizing, with excerpts, an encrypted e-book. Under normal copyright law, you would be free to do so under the fair use doctrine. Under the DMCA you can't, because you'd have to break the encryption to do so. Needless to say, the DMCA also raises huge concerns about free speech. What happened to Dmitry Sklyarov? Dmitry Sklyarov is a Russian cryptographer. In order to expose the childishly simple encryption used on a e-book reader made by the Adobe Corporation (not much more difficult than pig latin), he wrote a program used to decrypt e-books encrypted with Adobe's program. A company he works for then sold it over the internet. All this programming was done in Russia, where the DMCA does not apply. Mr. Sklyarov then came to the U.S., to discuss his work at a convention in Las Vegas. Adobe, aware he would be coming to the U.S., ordered the FBI to arrest him. He is now being held in an undisclosed location, awaiting arraignment. What can I do? Protests are being held across the country, and across the world, on Monday, July 23, 2001, to protest the abuse of the First Amendment and the rights of Russian Sovereignty. Come to the Portland protest at {time} meeting at {date} to add your voice to the hundreds, or even thousands, who will be coming together to speak out against this abuse of Mr. Sklyarov's rights. Protests are also going on in {cities}. Go to {web page} for more information. This flyer is hereby in the public domain. Please copy and distribute it widely. We won't put you in jail. -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Jul 20 23:27:01 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday In-Reply-To: <20010721012622.A10508@magic.com>; from hick0142@tc.umn.edu on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 01:26:22AM -0500 References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010720192611.00bfa1b0@flex.com> <20010721012622.A10508@magic.com> Message-ID: <20010720232701.B19918@zork.net> Please take this thread off-list. I once imagined a hypothetical newsgroup called "alt.flame.copyright", but some of the followups here should go to the other hypothetical "alt.flame.condit". -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From sam at dasbistro.com Fri Jul 20 23:31:50 2001 From: sam at dasbistro.com (Sam Phillips) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Reno Protest Plans Message-ID: <20010720233150.W20615@dasbistro.com> We had a short organizational meeting this evening that consisted of myself and Scott Underwood (an overall good malcontent.) Such is the way of the event samurai. For those of you that get all of your news from Slashdot, the event is NOT cancelled, just merely minorly adjusted. We will still be protesting the arrest of Dimitry Sklyarov and the DMCA. We will not be having any Adobe related protesting. Reasons for this can be read about at http://www.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/2001-July/000498.html . Draw whatever conclusions you want. Of the important bits we covered where and when: Bruce Thompson Federal Building 400 S. Virginia Street Reno, NV 11:30-1:00 How To Get There By Public Transit: The number 1 bus goes from Meadowood Mall along Virginia St. to downtown, and back. You'll want to get off at Virginia and Liberty. If you're coming in on PRIDE don't get off at Meadowood Mall. Take it all the way to downtown and then take the number 1 bus south to Liberty. Scott will be getting in touch with the police, and getting information together to release to the press. I'll be making some posters to spread around over the weekend, signs with the varying non-adobe related slogans, and flyers (all with non-Adobe software of course.) If you want to make your own signs please do not have any Adobe related slogans. Stick to the "Kill the DMCA" and "Free Dimitry" type ones (don't get those two mixed up, it would be really bad if you showed up with a sign that said "Kill Dimitry".) For other sign and chant ideas check out the Free-Sklyarov mailing list archives (http://www.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/2001-July/), and the other Sklyarov related websites out there. Free Dimitry! -- Sam Phillips http://www.dasbistro.com Reno Nevada From mlc67 at columbia.edu Fri Jul 20 23:34:09 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA flyer In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010721002246.03872a10@mail.paultopia.net>; from paul@paultopia.net on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 12:23:49AM -0600 References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010721002246.03872a10@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <20010720233409.B22332@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Good for something to give to media perhaps, but way way too much text for a flyer if you expect random passers-by to actually read it. A few paragraphs at the most, and put the most important things first. Talk about people being unjustly thrown in jail, not the abstract "purpose of copyright." I don't want to imply that these things aren't important, but people just ain't gonna care. solidarity, mike On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 12:23:49AM -0600, Paul Gowder wrote: > Draft of flyer about DMCA, Sklyarov in plain text below (see the .doc > format one in previous message, if it ever makes it past list message size > limits). > > PG -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // cell: +1 (646) 382-7220 // "facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - aldous huxley -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010720/87100a76/attachment.pgp From paul at paultopia.net Fri Jul 20 23:37:27 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA flyer on web Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010721003632.00e6d260@mail.paultopia.net> per request, I've posted my draft DMCA flyer on the web. http://www.paultopia.net/adobe/flyer.html -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From pedro at tastytronic.net Fri Jul 20 23:39:26 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Poster for use in handouts. Message-ID: <20010721013926.H284@tastytronic.net> http://two-bit.northpark.edu/free-sklyarov/ I made this poster for our Chicago protest -- we'll be using it on one side, with a press release (like the Reuter's feed) or our own homebrew on the backside -- something eye-grabbing on the front, something more informational on the back. I encourage any of you to use this poster if you like it, or create others like it and put links up to them. I am also willing to host these posters in one location so that people can access them more easily. Yours, Peter -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- FBI has imprisioned a Russian software engineer for promoting and teaching the concept of "fair use". Read more: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From neale at woozle.org Fri Jul 20 23:57:23 2001 From: neale at woozle.org (Neale Pickett) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Activities in New Mexico In-Reply-To: <002601c1122d$150e94f0$6501a8c0@sarnath> References: <002601c1122d$150e94f0$6501a8c0@sarnath> Message-ID: Robert Franklin writes: > Yes, I was talking to jaraco. I think the plans for NM are faltering... > partially due to the late date (he's heading out of town at the moment, > my contacts are more limited, etc.) as well as the general confusion > regarding the status of the protest right now. Are you currently on for > Seattle? Seattle's on, but for the most part* we plan on meeting at a nearby park, poised to walk to Adobe and protest. We'll be geting live updates from the EFF by cell phone, so we can keep up with how the talks are going. But we don't want to spoil things for the EFF by protesting anyway. WTO has left a sour taste in our mouth (who can name three issues raised by protesters during WTO? Okay now who can name three kinds of anti-riot gear used by police?), so we want to make sure we use our ability to protest as a strategic tool, not an end in and of itself. This strategy may not work so well in other parts of the country, less seasoned by protests gone awry :-) But if you're considering not doing anything at all, maybe this "poised to protest" position can get people charged up again. Let me know if you need any help organizing! (* "for the most part" means that it appears the majority feel this way. People being sovereign, not everyone in Seattle agrees with me, and there will probably still be a few protesters in front of Adobe on Monday regardless of what happens.) Neale Pickett, Civil Liberties Hacktivist > -----Original Message----- > From: Neale Pickett [mailto:neale@woozle.org] > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 3:27 PM > To: Robert Franklin > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Activities in New Mexico > Ah! Are you talking to Ralph Coombs? I was trying to convince him to > start something up :-) > Robert Franklin writes: >> I apologize for the HTML email. I'm experimenting with OfficeXP for >> work. My previous message is repeated below in plaintext. I imagine > we >> have some common friends... I'm a reformed Techie & remember seeing > you >> around. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Neale Pickett [mailto:neale@woozle.org] >> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 3:08 PM >> To: Robert Franklin >> Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Activities in New Mexico >> Hey Robert, >> I've got friends in New Mexico who might be interested, but I can't >> decipher all that MS Word gar. Could you maybe resend that message in >> plain text? >> Repeated/Reformatted Message Follows... >> > ======================================================================== >> === >> A few friends and I are discussing an action in Albuquerque, New > Mexico >> to coincide with the other protests going on. A few questions have >> surfaced that we could use some advice on. >> 1) Is anyone else on the list in New Mexico, and willing to either >> participate or help organize? >> 2) Has the EFF or anyone on the list created a quick HOWTO for this > sort >> of thing? Topics I am interested in but somewhat clueless about >> include: Informing the media; informing the authorities (i.e. >> contacting local law enforcement to let them know we will be there) >> 3) A set of cluefull speaking points. I'm thinking soundbytes & > quotes >> suitable for 30 seconds of news coverage. It seems to me a good idea > to >> have a short, quick list for people who are either organizing their > own >> small rallies or will be speaking with the press. Perhaps a media > guide >> from the EFF (if one already exists, please direct me to it) would be >> helpful. what I really have in mind is something short that could be >> handed out to supporters & media summing up the legal issues/etc. >> Although concerned, I'm no lawyer & would want to be positive I had my >> facts right. >> Thanks, I'm sure more questions will follow-- >> Rob > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From nicku at vtc.edu.hk Sat Jul 21 00:00:54 2001 From: nicku at vtc.edu.hk (Nick Urbanik) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA flyer References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010721002246.03872a10@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <3B5928A6.6444D5AE@vtc.edu.hk> Paul Gowder wrote: {snip] > What can I do? > Protests are being held across the country, and across the world, on > Monday, July 23, 2001, to protest the abuse of the First Amendment and the > rights of Russian Sovereignty. Come to the Portland protest at {time} > meeting at {date} to add your voice to the hundreds, or even thousands, who > will be coming together to speak out against this abuse of Mr. Sklyarov's > rights. > > Protests are also going on in {cities}. Go to {web page} for more information. > > This flyer is hereby in the public domain. Please copy and distribute it > widely. We won't put you in jail. Okay, so what can we do from Hong Kong? I will not organise any street protest, but I am happy to send email to any number of people who bear some responsibility for Dmitry's arrest. Is it possible to compile a reasonable email list? Nick. From admin at seattle-chat.com Sat Jul 21 00:04:34 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Activities in New Mexico In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Uh Majority? I saw two people disagree with my position, I hardly call that a majority. You were one of the two. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Neale Pickett Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 11:57 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Activities in New Mexico Robert Franklin writes: > Yes, I was talking to jaraco. I think the plans for NM are faltering... > partially due to the late date (he's heading out of town at the moment, > my contacts are more limited, etc.) as well as the general confusion > regarding the status of the protest right now. Are you currently on for > Seattle? Seattle's on, but for the most part* we plan on meeting at a nearby park, poised to walk to Adobe and protest. We'll be geting live updates from the EFF by cell phone, so we can keep up with how the talks are going. But we don't want to spoil things for the EFF by protesting anyway. WTO has left a sour taste in our mouth (who can name three issues raised by protesters during WTO? Okay now who can name three kinds of anti-riot gear used by police?), so we want to make sure we use our ability to protest as a strategic tool, not an end in and of itself. This strategy may not work so well in other parts of the country, less seasoned by protests gone awry :-) But if you're considering not doing anything at all, maybe this "poised to protest" position can get people charged up again. Let me know if you need any help organizing! (* "for the most part" means that it appears the majority feel this way. People being sovereign, not everyone in Seattle agrees with me, and there will probably still be a few protesters in front of Adobe on Monday regardless of what happens.) Neale Pickett, Civil Liberties Hacktivist > -----Original Message----- > From: Neale Pickett [mailto:neale@woozle.org] > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 3:27 PM > To: Robert Franklin > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Activities in New Mexico > Ah! Are you talking to Ralph Coombs? I was trying to convince him to > start something up :-) > Robert Franklin writes: >> I apologize for the HTML email. I'm experimenting with OfficeXP for >> work. My previous message is repeated below in plaintext. I imagine > we >> have some common friends... I'm a reformed Techie & remember seeing > you >> around. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Neale Pickett [mailto:neale@woozle.org] >> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 3:08 PM >> To: Robert Franklin >> Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Activities in New Mexico >> Hey Robert, >> I've got friends in New Mexico who might be interested, but I can't >> decipher all that MS Word gar. Could you maybe resend that message in >> plain text? >> Repeated/Reformatted Message Follows... >> > ======================================================================== >> === >> A few friends and I are discussing an action in Albuquerque, New > Mexico >> to coincide with the other protests going on. A few questions have >> surfaced that we could use some advice on. >> 1) Is anyone else on the list in New Mexico, and willing to either >> participate or help organize? >> 2) Has the EFF or anyone on the list created a quick HOWTO for this > sort >> of thing? Topics I am interested in but somewhat clueless about >> include: Informing the media; informing the authorities (i.e. >> contacting local law enforcement to let them know we will be there) >> 3) A set of cluefull speaking points. I'm thinking soundbytes & > quotes >> suitable for 30 seconds of news coverage. It seems to me a good idea > to >> have a short, quick list for people who are either organizing their > own >> small rallies or will be speaking with the press. Perhaps a media > guide >> from the EFF (if one already exists, please direct me to it) would be >> helpful. what I really have in mind is something short that could be >> handed out to supporters & media summing up the legal issues/etc. >> Although concerned, I'm no lawyer & would want to be positive I had my >> facts right. >> Thanks, I'm sure more questions will follow-- >> Rob > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From proclus at iname.com Sat Jul 21 00:19:20 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] LinuxJournal Article In-Reply-To: <20010720185831.A584@zork.net> Message-ID: <200107210719.f6L7JNg00604@moerbeke> On 20 Jul, Nick Moffitt wrote: > Mike Orr just sent me this URL: > > http://noframes.linuxjournal.com/articles/currents/0034.html > > Bryan Pfaffenberger wins again! > Darn I love that guy. I sent the article to my Mom. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From nick at zork.net Sat Jul 21 00:21:09 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] PRAVDA! Message-ID: <20010721002109.Q584@zork.net> Yes folks, once again, PRAVDA shines through, living up to its name! (Pravda is Russian for "truth") http://english.pravda.ru/usa/2001/07/18/10431.html I love the way they auto-translate their stories to other languages: > SERGEI SNEGOV: ANOTHER RUSSIAN HACKER LURED TO U.S., DETAINED BY FBI [...] > The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are > very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting > them. .signature material, I tell you! -- You are not entitled to your opinions. 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Sat Jul 21 00:27:50 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] confirmation re: bay area sign-making party on Sunday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just to clarify some confusion caused by out-of-order emails that came out to this list after the mailman patch -- The event advertised below IS STILL ON, and will indeed occur unless Adobe commits to a legally binding pledge to drop their complaints and not testify against Dmitriy before then. Considering that this is the weekend and pigs aren't flying, the event is STILL ON. Just to reiterate, please bring your own materials, and let me know if you're planning to come. On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Alex Fabrikant wrote: > Some Berkeley people will be gathering on Sunday at about 4pm to make > signs, and "miscellaneous props", for the Monday protest in San Jose. > Anyone in the area is welcome to join us. The location is in the Wozniak > Lounge of Soda Hall on the UC Berkeley Campus. > > Bring your own materials, tools, and cool ideas (and certainly feel free > to bring extra stuff). We plan on being there until about 8pm. > > Directions to Soda Hall can be found at > http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Campus/Directions/#soda. It's a big ugly > greenish building at the intersection of Hearst and Le Roy. You'll need to > approach the building from the Le Roy Ave side, and enter from the back > (from the patio above the volleyball court). > > Please drop me an email if you're planning on attending, just so I know > how many people to expect. > > This event is officially under the aegis of the Berkeley CSUA (Computer > Science Undergraduate Association). > > -- -alexf From jeme at brelin.net Sat Jul 21 00:35:28 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, GeEk wrote: > Just wondering (because maybe you don't live in the US). But why are > you all gonna protest because some Russian got arrested for breaking > the law?? 1) He didn't break the law. The company he works for might have broken the law. If this is a precedent for punishing employees for the crimes of their employers, I know about fifteen thousand employees of Union Carbide that should be looking over their shoulder right now. 2) The law that he is accused of breaking is not only unjust, but an obvious tool of the corporate powers to destroy personal freedom in exchange for massive profits and protections from the government of the people. They are using the public against itself and laughing all the way to the bank. The law needs to be addressed. > Don't you have anything better to do with you're time??? I cannot imagine a better thing to do with my time than fighting corporate tyrrany. > I mean this ass hole fucked some Intern and then killed her... maybe > I'm a little crazy here (which I have been told oftern that I am) but > that seems a hell of a lot more important then some fucking Commie. Well, there's the life of one intern and the freedom of one possible murderer versus the freedom of an entire nation and their progeny. I'll take the latter. Any day of the week. As for the "fucking Commie" comment: 1) Dmitry Sklyarov lives in a nation and works in a system that is just as exploitative of labor as the one you and I live in. As far as I know, he supports that system with his personal convictions as well. (Though, you'd think someone as smart as that would see through its obvious contradictions.) 2) If you're implying that the Soviets were really communist, you've got a whole lot of reading to do. Not a communist, but I know one when I see one. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From neale at woozle.org Sat Jul 21 00:40:17 2001 From: neale at woozle.org (Neale Pickett) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Activities in New Mexico In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I was one of three that I counted voicing support for the "poised to protest" stance, I only saw your posts urging for the protest to continue. While you are clearly in the majority on this (international) list, this puts you in the minority on the Seattle list so far. There hasn't exactly been a flurry of email on the Seattle list though, so even this tide may still change. But the opinions which have been expressed, including yours, have all been well-reasoned. One thing is certain: there are two distinct camps on this issue, both with good reasons for positioning themselves as they do. My statements reflect my views, and my interpretation of what appears to me the majority-held view on the list. Everyone is encouraged to view the public Seattle list archives at Charles Eakins writes: > Uh Majority? I saw two people disagree with my position, I hardly call that > a majority. You were one of the two. > -----Original Message----- > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Neale Pickett > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 11:57 PM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Activities in New Mexico > Robert Franklin writes: >> Yes, I was talking to jaraco. I think the plans for NM are faltering... >> partially due to the late date (he's heading out of town at the moment, >> my contacts are more limited, etc.) as well as the general confusion >> regarding the status of the protest right now. Are you currently on for >> Seattle? > Seattle's on, but for the most part* we plan on meeting at a nearby park, > poised to walk to Adobe and protest. We'll be geting live updates from > the EFF by cell phone, so we can keep up with how the talks are going. > But we don't want to spoil things for the EFF by protesting anyway. WTO > has left a sour taste in our mouth (who can name three issues raised by > protesters during WTO? Okay now who can name three kinds of anti-riot > gear used by police?), so we want to make sure we use our ability to > protest as a strategic tool, not an end in and of itself. > This strategy may not work so well in other parts of the country, less > seasoned by protests gone awry :-) But if you're considering not doing > anything at all, maybe this "poised to protest" position can get people > charged up again. Let me know if you need any help organizing! > (* "for the most part" means that it appears the majority feel this > way. People being sovereign, not everyone in Seattle agrees with me, > and there will probably still be a few protesters in front of Adobe on > Monday regardless of what happens.) > Neale Pickett, Civil Liberties Hacktivist >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Neale Pickett [mailto:neale@woozle.org] >> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 3:27 PM >> To: Robert Franklin >> Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Activities in New Mexico >> Ah! Are you talking to Ralph Coombs? I was trying to convince him to >> start something up :-) >> Robert Franklin writes: >>> I apologize for the HTML email. I'm experimenting with OfficeXP for >>> work. My previous message is repeated below in plaintext. I imagine >> we >>> have some common friends... I'm a reformed Techie & remember seeing >> you >>> around. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Neale Pickett [mailto:neale@woozle.org] >>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 3:08 PM >>> To: Robert Franklin >>> Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Activities in New Mexico >>> Hey Robert, >>> I've got friends in New Mexico who might be interested, but I can't >>> decipher all that MS Word gar. Could you maybe resend that message in >>> plain text? >>> Repeated/Reformatted Message Follows... >>> >> ======================================================================== >>> === >>> A few friends and I are discussing an action in Albuquerque, New >> Mexico >>> to coincide with the other protests going on. A few questions have >>> surfaced that we could use some advice on. >>> 1) Is anyone else on the list in New Mexico, and willing to either >>> participate or help organize? >>> 2) Has the EFF or anyone on the list created a quick HOWTO for this >> sort >>> of thing? Topics I am interested in but somewhat clueless about >>> include: Informing the media; informing the authorities (i.e. >>> contacting local law enforcement to let them know we will be there) >>> 3) A set of cluefull speaking points. I'm thinking soundbytes & >> quotes >>> suitable for 30 seconds of news coverage. It seems to me a good idea >> to >>> have a short, quick list for people who are either organizing their >> own >>> small rallies or will be speaking with the press. Perhaps a media >> guide >>> from the EFF (if one already exists, please direct me to it) would be >>> helpful. what I really have in mind is something short that could be >>> handed out to supporters & media summing up the legal issues/etc. >>> Although concerned, I'm no lawyer & would want to be positive I had my >>> facts right. >>> Thanks, I'm sure more questions will follow-- >>> Rob >> _______________________________________________ >> free-sklyarov mailing list >> free-sklyarov@zork.net >> http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From ausage at ausage.com Sat Jul 21 00:43:36 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What about authors?? Message-ID: <01072103295600.00729@frankie> I just sent a nice email to AAP to inform them that since they support the arrest of Dimitry so strongly, I will extend my boycott of Abobe to their members. Then I had a thought, some publishers and some authors are very friendly to open ebook publishing. I paid a visit to Baen (http://www.baen.com) who have a nice "free" library as will a many ebook and noticed they don't support Adobe's ebook reader. I suggest an email / letter writing campaign to those publishers, and authors if possible, who do use Adobe ebook format to say, "Hey, while Adobe and the US gov't persecute Dimitry and try to take away fair use I won't buy any of your books, paper or electronic, until you stop using Adobe eBook format". The would certainly impact Adobe, and make the publishers aware of how much people are upset by the DMCA. Also I think it would be a great help if we could get some of the well known authors to come out publicly on our side. A few thoughts and my 2 cents. -- Andrew Lawrence Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 From nick at zork.net Sat Jul 21 00:48:45 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Poster for use in handouts. In-Reply-To: <20010721013926.H284@tastytronic.net>; from pedro@tastytronic.net on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 01:39:26AM -0500 References: <20010721013926.H284@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: <20010721004845.S584@zork.net> Begin Peter A. Peterson II quotation: > I made this poster for our Chicago protest -- we'll be using it on one > side, with a press release (like the Reuter's feed) or our own homebrew > on the backside I recommend Pravda! -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From awh at acm.org Sat Jul 21 00:43:14 2001 From: awh at acm.org (Tony Hursh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] American Association of Publishers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010721022410.03caa150@students.uiuc.edu> At 11:23 PM 7/20/01 -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote: >Larry Blunk writes: > > > The publishers have chimed in with their opinion on Skylarov's > > arrest and the wonderful DMCA. I should warn you all -- it's not for > the weak > > of stomach. > > > > http://www.publishers.org/home/press/index.htm > >I'd be eager to hear suggestions for an appropriate response. Their membership list can be found at: http://www.publishers.org/home/abouta/members.htm There's a staff email page as well. Most of the industry heavyweights seem to be members. I wonder how many of them signed off on Adler and Gwiazdowski's press release? Not many, I'm guessing. They really don't have a clue... their home page has language forbidding electronic transmission, reproduction, or storage in a retrieval system of any of their content without *prior written permission*. I'm not sure how they think the Web works, not to mention the local disk cache, caching web servers, search engines like Google, etc. Those who visit the site might want to empty their browser cache afterward, lest the AAP throw you in the pokey (heck, if rot-13 counts as "encryption" now, maybe normal caching of a public web page counts as "copyright violation"). Perhaps to be on the safe side one should write Adler and ask for written permission before visiting the site. -- Tony -- Causality violation: Universe dumped. Tony Hursh Department of Computer Science, http://www.cs.uiuc.edu Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign From proclus at iname.com Sat Jul 21 01:04:12 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] About San Diego Action. In-Reply-To: <20010721001315.B4241@gnuchris> Message-ID: <200107210804.f6L84Fg00660@moerbeke> On 21 Jul, Chris wrote: > Hey guys, > >> I'm not going to the Open Source Convention - but I'd be interested to >> know if anything is happening in San Diego. >> >> Question though - was Dmitry's work open source? > > His work was not Open Source... it was very proprietary... he did however give a presentation about it at Defcon. > > Chris > ...And they did mention the possibility that they would free the code under GPL. Still, I'm afraid that technically, the issue involves merely openness of the eBook platform (lack thereof actually). Freedom is the issue at the academic level and at the level of fair use, but the situation is very like to evolve over time. It will be interesting to see if relevant free stuff pops out in the wake of the open source convention. I would not be at all surprised. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ We have the technology to make him better than he was; better, stronger, faster. And then, we will own every bit of him. -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From schoen at loyalty.org Sat Jul 21 01:07:45 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release In-Reply-To: <87y9pihgsf.fsf@mathdogs.com>; from mkc@mathdogs.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 02:39:44AM -0500 References: <20010721055413.66022.qmail@web10004.mail.yahoo.com> <20010720230248.P6900@zork.net> <87y9pihgsf.fsf@mathdogs.com> Message-ID: <20010721010745.C30157@zork.net> Mike Coleman writes: > 2. Complain, courteously, to their members, many of which we're probably > members of (e.g., ACM, IEEE) or give lots of money to (various book > publishers) or that are closely associated with various universities > (which can hopefully be expected to appreciate gravity of this issue). > > http://www.publishers.org/home/abouta/members.htm It is shocking that some organizations for the blind are members, given this statement and how bad DRM may be for those with disabilities. Someone should let the disabilities organizations know about how DRM can undermine 17 USC 121 and inhibit accessibility. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From proclus at iname.com Sat Jul 21 01:18:24 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fwd: Dimitry In-Reply-To: <01072014342900.12988@kurt.bihlertech.com> Message-ID: <200107210818.f6L8IRg00664@moerbeke> I am really enjoying these kinds of messages. In my experience, such folks _never_ go back to the offending company. Amazon lost many customers (including myself) after their ridiculous patent claim. How funny that the company still sends me occasional emails like a blind idiot robot. Now, they are cultivating cobwebs. It's over for Adobe, and we should pull no punches until they withdraw the complaint against Dmitry. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ On 20 Jul, Kurt wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > Subject: Dimitry > Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 14:17:51 -0500 > From: Kurt > To: jcristof@adobe.com, dstyerwa@adobe.com, lvacante@adobe.com, > ablatchf@adobe.com, skrueger@adobe.com, gbabbit@adobe.com, wsaso@adobe.com, > jwarnock@adobe.com, cgeschke@adobe.com, bchizen@adobe.com, > snarayen@adobe.com, mdemo@adobe.com, gfreeman@adobe.com, cpouliot@adobe.com, > jstephens@adobe.com, mdyrdahl@adobe.com, lepstein@adobe.com, > lsellers@adobe.com, blamkin@adobe.com > > > My company had purchased Photoshop, a photoshop upgrade, and pdf writer in > the past. > > Your cowardly and greedy attempt to silence Dimitry Sklyarov by havng him > arrested for point out your woefull lacking of security (ROT-13) in your > E-book product is reprehensible. > > I for one , and my company small as it is will NEVER purchase anything from > your company directly or indirectly. > > -- > Kurt Bihler > http://www.bihlertech.com > 00 R1150GS > Repeal the DMCA Now!! > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > Copy of a letter i sent to Adobe > > cheers > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From jssj2001 at hotmail.com Sat Jul 21 01:19:38 2001 From: jssj2001 at hotmail.com (y s) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday Message-ID: > >I cannot imagine a better thing to do with my time than fighting >corporate >tyrrany. O yeah, tyrrany, really. I happen to know many guys from Adobe. They are very smart and hardworking, and they consider Adobe a great place to work. They created great products, unlike Sklyarov and his company, who just try to make bucks on breaking and reverse engineering other's software. Sure, Elcomsoft loves all this noise, it is free advertisement for them, that they would never get otherwise. >2) If you're implying that the Soviets were really communist, you've got a >whole lot of reading to do. I, for one, don't need any more reading, I lived there. But if you are talking of reading, - open Gulag Archipelago, rather than leftist media (both here and there). >Not a communist, but I know one when I see one. Take a mirror. JSSJ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From nick at zork.net Sat Jul 21 01:30:42 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release In-Reply-To: <20010721010745.C30157@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 01:07:45AM -0700 References: <20010721055413.66022.qmail@web10004.mail.yahoo.com> <20010720230248.P6900@zork.net> <87y9pihgsf.fsf@mathdogs.com> <20010721010745.C30157@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010721013042.U584@zork.net> Begin The ASCII Floating Head of Seth David Schoen quotation: > It is shocking that some organizations for the blind are members, > given this statement and how bad DRM may be for those with > disabilities. > > Someone should let the disabilities organizations know about how DRM > can undermine 17 USC 121 and inhibit accessibility. Is there any contact info up on that page? -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From ausage at ausage.com Sat Jul 21 01:34:31 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Food for thought In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072104343103.00729@frankie> Hmmm.... I wonder... If I use the Advanced Ebook Reader to open my copy of "Through the Looking Glass" -- the one that says "may not be read aloud" -- so I can read it, silently, on my Linux computer... Have I committed an unpardonnable act according to the DMCA.... Boy, I am glad I live north of the Great Lakes. -- Andrew Lawrence Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 From jeme at brelin.net Sat Jul 21 01:38:57 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, y s wrote: > >I cannot imagine a better thing to do with my time than fighting >corporate > >tyrrany. > > O yeah, tyrrany, really. Absolutely. Tyranny. The way the corporations are destroying the public sphere and making it so that the only legitimate interaction is commercial interaction. EVERYTHING is described in terms of the market. The corporations buy laws and we, the people, have no real way of removing their politicians from office because the corporations own the media as well... so even when a good candidate comes along with money of his own (or money directly from the people), the candidate cannot begin to compete for airtime and is treated by those corporate reports as a kind of anomaly or joke. > I happen to know many guys from Adobe. They are very smart and > hardworking, and they consider Adobe a great place to work. I'm sure MANY of the people who work for Adobe are good, smart people who work hard. I'm sure many of them consider Adobe to be a great place to work. But Adobe (the corporation) exists only to make money by preventing people from doing what is normal and natural: sharing information. This is true of ALL commercial software companies. > They created great products, unlike Sklyarov and his company, who just > try to make bucks on breaking and reverse engineering other's > software. Sure, Elcomsoft loves all this noise, it is free > advertisement for them, that they would never get otherwise. Elcomsoft is just as evil as Adobe in my book. And neither of them are breaking the laws of their nation. Sklyarov, however, is an individual human being and merely an employee of an evil corporation. He makes choices on more complex criteria than "how can I maximize my profit?" and that makes him superior to ALL commercial entities. Dmitry Sklyarov was arrested after committing no known crime. Writing the software attributed to him is not illegal in his country... and the distribution of the software was done by Elcomsoft, not Dmitry Sklyarov. Again, if we are going to start punishing individuals for the sins of their employers, MOST Americans are looking at doing hard time. > >2) If you're implying that the Soviets were really communist, you've got a > >whole lot of reading to do. > I, for one, don't need any more reading, I lived there. But if you are > talking of reading, - open Gulag Archipelago, rather than leftist media > (both here and there). Communism, as described by Marx who coined the term, is a state where regulation is simply not required. He used the term interchangeably with "utopia". I'm simply arguing that the Soviets were not communists in this sense... and, in fact, in no sense at all. > >Not a communist, but I know one when I see one. > Take a mirror. I don't think we're quite ready for communism yet... we have too many issues of scarcity to resolve first. When all things are abundant, surely I will be a communist. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From proclus at iname.com Sat Jul 21 01:39:22 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday In-Reply-To: <00fc01c11187$543e7100$d2972040@thinkpad574> Message-ID: <200107210839.f6L8dPg07825@moerbeke> On 20 Jul, Black Unicorn wrote: > Note: > > Adobe- owing to the kidnapping of its big wig some time ago- is very > paranoid. > > Please be aware and be cautious as they may be prone to overreact to > taunting. > > (Do not taunt happy-fun-acrobat). This looks like a joke. If so, it is really hilarious, but otherwise sorry. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Len Sassaman" > To: ; ; > ; > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 6:39 PM > Subject: Rallies on Monday > > >> http://www.boycottadobe.com/pages/rallies.html >> >> is now the home for the rally announcements. If you're planning on >> attending one, please visit this page for info. If you're holding one, >> please let us know so we can add it to the page. >> >> Thanks! >> >> -- >> >> Len Sassaman >> >> Security Architect | >> Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." >> | >> http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens >> > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From jssj2001 at hotmail.com Sat Jul 21 01:42:16 2001 From: jssj2001 at hotmail.com (y s) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What about authors?? Message-ID: > >Also I think it would be a great help if we could get some of >the well known authors to come out publicly on our side. > Great idea. Also, it would be nice to get Adobe "publicly on our side". _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From tabindak at best.com Sat Jul 21 01:45:15 2001 From: tabindak at best.com (Tabinda N. Khan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release In-Reply-To: <20010721013042.U584@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 01:30:42AM -0700 References: <20010721055413.66022.qmail@web10004.mail.yahoo.com> <20010720230248.P6900@zork.net> <87y9pihgsf.fsf@mathdogs.com> <20010721010745.C30157@zork.net> <20010721013042.U584@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010721014515.A20479@shell9.ba.best.com> > > It is shocking that some organizations for the blind are members, > > given this statement and how bad DRM may be for those with > > disabilities. Not about ebooks specifically, but my eyebrows are raised nonetheless. http://access.adobe.com/ Tabinda -- From cam at ezhe.ru Sat Jul 21 01:57:20 2001 From: cam at ezhe.ru (Alexander Malioukov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Russia: Dmitry Sklyarov: Adobe vs Elcomsoft Message-ID: <010501c111c3$2f38c8b0$34de10c3@home> Dmitry Sklyarov: Adobe vs Elcomsoft http://ezhe.ru/elcomsoft/ Counter "Free Dmitry", mail-list, links, comments, news etc. The site (except mail-list, which is in Russian) is bilingual - Russian + English. Best regards, Alexander "CAM" Malioukov ezhe.ru From jssj2001 at hotmail.com Sat Jul 21 01:56:10 2001 From: jssj2001 at hotmail.com (y s) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday Message-ID: >Absolutely. Tyranny. The way the corporations are destroying the >public >sphere and making it so that the only legitimate interaction >is commercial >interaction. EVERYTHING is described in terms of the >market. The >corporations buy laws and we, the people, have no real >way of removing >their politicians from office because the >corporations own the media as >well... so even when a good candidate >comes along with money of his own or >money directly from the people), >the candidate cannot begin to compete for >airtime and is treated by >those corporate reports as a kind of anomaly or >joke. Looks like exact translation of Soviet "Pravda" editorial. >When all things are abundant, surely I will be a communist. I've seen a lot of idealists like you in the former Soviet Union, my parents including. Now I know better than that. But everybody is entitled to his own illusions. Good luck. -JSSJ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From proclus at iname.com Sat Jul 21 02:10:59 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on H old In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107210911.f6L9B2g07869@moerbeke> On 20 Jul, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Sonja V. Tideman wrote: > >> >> What if we shifted the focus from Adobe to the US governement (and agreed >> to mention Adobe as little as possible in the protest)? >> >> Sonja > > No. We are happy to meet with Adobe, but naturally our protest continues. > Dmitry still sits in jail, and Adobe put him there. After the DMCA is > repealed, and Dmitry and Elcomsoft are made whole, perhaps we might enter > into meetings aimed at ending the boycott. I'm expecting that GNU-Darwin would withdraw from the boycott effort, if and only if Adobe withdraws the complaint against Dmitry _in good faith_. Good faith would require that they do not interfere with our extended efforts to free Dmitry and throw down the DMCA. It would also imply that they should not undertake any such abusive behavior under DMCA in the future. To that end, we should never let up on Adobe until they meet those demands, and we should use every reasonable power that we have against them to pressure them to do what is good and right. We should apply our efforts and intelligence towards better ways to convince them to withdraw their complaint. We should continue to build our momentum, without slacking, until it becomes an overwhelming force if necessary. Of course, we will continue to provide free software alternatives to the proprietary software as part of our mission, whether or not the boycott is in force. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > > oo--JS. > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From pablos at kadrevis.com Sat Jul 21 02:40:31 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry! (fwd) Message-ID: <2308081.995683231@[10.0.1.220]> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Saturday, July 21, 2001 9:00 AM +0800 From: Chikandu Modadana To: "nicehair@boycottadobe.com" Subject: Dmitry! Hello im a 17 year old guy from Sweden that uses various Adobe programs and i thought theyr great! But when i read about this Dmitry guy and what happend to him i really got pissed of!! How the hell can Adobe do sucha thing!? You can count on me guys. i?ve spread the word trough out many well visited Swedish sites and to all my friends who ALSO got pissed of about this!! Hope everything turns out to the best! / -- Get your free email from www.linuxmail.org Powered by Outblaze ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From proclus at iname.com Sat Jul 21 02:59:13 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] boycottadobe.com logo In-Reply-To: <20010720162256.A13606@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <200107210959.f6L9xGg07898@moerbeke> I think you may indeed be reading too much into it. As I read it, the banner is an attempt to undermine the Adobe brand and rightly associate the actions of the Kompany with the abuses of Stalinism. I wholeheartedly approve, and I think that we should definitely continue with the current banner. It is a little like the Microsoft icon at Slashdot, Bill Gates as the Borg commander; very funny and very effective. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ On 20 Jul, mike castleman wrote: > I just wanted to comment on the modified Adobe logo on the > boycottadobe.com website. I'm not clear what the artist is trying to > communicate by inserting the Communist hammer/sickle in the Adobe logo. It > seems that Adobe suffers from an excess of Capitalism and all its inherent > evils rather than an excess of Communism. And, while I'm not myself a > Communist, I'd have trouble feeling a part of any movement (and we ARE > building a movement, right here on this list) that participates in the > kind of red-baiting implied by equating Communism with all things evil. I > further note that Mr. Sklyarov is from Russia, a part of the world which > is closely associated with Communism. > > I apologize if I'm reading too much into it, but it seems to me we have to > be careful about symbolism and what kind of message we're sending. > -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From freesk at hackhawk.net Sat Jul 21 03:28:28 2001 From: freesk at hackhawk.net (hackhawk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Los Angeles In-Reply-To: <20010720231228.WHGP18323.mta09.onebox.com@onebox.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010721032709.00a03590@localhost> I've agreed to host an information web site and mailing list at hackhawk.net if there's enough interest in the LA area. So far I've seen one other person from LA. You would be the second, third including me. - hh At 04:12 PM 7/20/01 -0700, Jeff Strauss wrote: >Are there any protests planned for Los Angeles? > > -C.L. > >__________________________________________________ >FREE voicemail, email, and fax...all in one place. >Sign Up Now! http://www.onebox.com > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From snair at utstar.com Sat Jul 21 03:48:41 2001 From: snair at utstar.com (Sreeni R. Nair) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wired reports about the protests Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010721064705.00b089d0@mail.utstar.com> Declan's article about the protest has come up on Wired site. http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,45437,00.html The ordinary man acts because he thinks his act will be profitable; the superior man, however, acts because he thinks his act is right. -- Confucius From free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org Sat Jul 21 04:03:55 2001 From: free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org (free-sklyarov@effector.xenoclast.org) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] O'Reilly's stance on the DMCA... Message-ID: I have posted a question on the 'Ask Tim' section of O'Reilly's website. Text reproduced below: Subject: What is O'Reilly's stance on the DMCA? Following the arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov for offences under the DMCA after the company he works for published code that decrypt's Adobe eBooks, the AAP (Association of American Publishers) have come out in support of the DMCA. I would be very interested to hear what O'Reilly's position is on those parts of the DMCA which seek to make a crime of the act of circumventing a copyright protection mechanism (or even discssing the circumvention of a copyright protection mechanism). As someone considering writing a book, it is in my best interests, if I choose to distribute my book electronically, for electronic book formats and readers to be subjected to the same peer review and scrutiny that encryption algorithms routinely undergo. Without such an inspection, I have no guarantee that the technology I choose is not easily broken. Such scrutiny is manifestly impossible if the DMCA can be employed by companies who sell poorly secured products to prosecute anyone attempting to engage in such discussion. I was disappointed by the AAP's decision to support the DMCA, and am keen to hear your own views on the subject. Julian Midgley -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F From chris.savage at crblaw.com Sat Jul 21 05:34:37 2001 From: chris.savage at crblaw.com (Chris Savage) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fighting the DMCA Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: James S. Tyre [mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com] > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 1:09 AM > To: Chad Horton; free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Fighting the DMCA > > >So far, most of the defenses of things like DeCSS that I've > >seen focus on arguing soruce code as a form of speech. IMO, > this is a bit of a stretch and doesn't seem to have done all > >that good of a job. > > You wound me, sir, you *wound* me. > > See, I wrote the Programmers and Academics' Amicus Brief in the 2600 > appeal, which argues nothing but that code is speech. ;-) > > http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/MPAA_DVD_cases/20010126_ny_progacad _amicus.html Jim, as you know, *I* thought your brief was great. And let's see what the 2nd Circuit does with 2600 before counting "software as speech" out. That said, a la "The Weapon Shops of Isher," I kinda liked the 2nd Amendment idea... Chris S. *************************************************************************** This electronic mail transmission may contain confidential or privileged information. If you believe that you have received the message in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. *************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010721/66f1172f/attachment.htm From brettbarnes at home.com Sat Jul 21 05:57:31 2001 From: brettbarnes at home.com (Brett Barnes) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] "Code is not Criminal" Bumper Sticker Message-ID: <000b01c111e4$b516a3a0$11050341@sparky2000> A couple of years ago I saw a bumper sticker that read, "Code is not criminal". Any idea where I and several hundred other people can get one? The small print on the bumper sticker did say "eff.org", I have no idea whether they created it or not. I've asked them but, haven't heard back yet. From me at ryanmarsh.com Sat Jul 21 04:21:52 2001 From: me at ryanmarsh.com (Ryan Marsh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Letter to Adobe HR In-Reply-To: <3B590A76.ABA3384B@goingware.com> References: <3B590A76.ABA3384B@goingware.com> Message-ID: <995714512.8040.12.camel@cocoon.butterflysoft.org> Wow, you've got some balls! You did the right thing. On 21 Jul 2001 00:52:06 -0400, Michael D. Crawford wrote: > I sent the following email just now to Cheryl Erickson, a member of the Adobe HR > Department who had been considering me for a position with the company. > > Best, > > Mike > --- > Subject: I withdraw my application on principle > > Cheryl, > > This is quite difficult for me, but I feel that as a matter of principal I must > withdraw my application for the Photoshop Software Engineering Manager and the > other positions I recently applied for at Adobe Systems. > > The following letter which I just mailed to many of my friends and family > explains why in more detail. But if you don't want to read the whole thing, at > least read this: > > http://www.goingware.com/reputation/ > > Thank you for your help. I look forward to better days, when programmers can do > their work without fear. > > Regards, > > Michael D. Crawford > -- > Subject: Free Dmitry > > Friends, > > I have long held the belief that computer programs are constitutionally > protected free speech. They are, after all, how us programmers > communicate with each other. This is also the opinion of at least one > federal court, although it is yet to be tested by the Supreme Court. > > However, on July 16, Russian computer programmer Dmitry Sklarov was > arrested by the FBI for writing a computer program and presenting a > paper on it at a security conference in Las Vegas. > > His paper, "eBooks Security: Theory and Practice", exposed the woefully > inadequate security schemes used to copy protect Adobe eBooks ("secure" > electronic publications, basically encrypted PDF files). > > If you have PowerPoint, you can get his presentation here: > > http://www.download.ru/defcon.ppt > > You can purchase, and download a free trial version of Advanced eBook > Processor here: > > http://www.elcomsoft.com/aebpr.html > > Rather thank thanking him for revealing their engineering flaws, Adobe > made a complaint to the FBI, and the FBI arrested him under the Digital > Millenium Copyright Act. He is being held without bail, out of > communication with his wife and children, in a foreign country, facing a > $500,000 fine and five years in federal prison. > > The digital millenium copyright act is clearly unconstitutional, not > just in that it violates free speech for programmers, but that it > violates fair use - the right of citizens to make limited copies of > copyrighted materials for certain uses such as backup and academic > research. > > If you want to know more about Dmitry's case, please visit: > > http://www.boycottadobe.com/ > > You'll find pictures there of Dmitry, and of his wife and children, who > I am sure miss him greatly. > > And please consider joining the Electronic Frontier Foundation, which is > pressing two other court cases to try to have the DMCA ruled > unconstitutional and will lend his support to Dmitry once the U.S. > Marshalls tell them where he is, you can do so here: > > http://www.eff.org/support/ > > I leave you with the following words of wisdom, spoken 100 years ago. > > Make a Bonfire of Your Reputations > http://www.goingware.com/reputation/ > > It's hard for me to write this letter as I just applied for a position as > Photoshop Software Engineering Manager at Adobe Systems, the creator of > eBooks. Times have been hard for me and my little family for quite some time, > and that would be a good job for me for which I feel I am quite qualified, but I > know it would be wrong to fail to speak out on this abuse of Dmitry's > constitutional rights, and the rights of software engineers everywhere. > > Please pass this mail on to anyone who might be interested to hear it. > > Ever Faithful, > > Michael D. Crawford > GoingWare Inc. - Expert Software Development and Consulting > http://www.goingware.com/ > crawford@goingware.com > > Tilting at Windmills for a Better Tomorrow. > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Regards, -ryan The three great virtues of programming are laziness, impatience, and hubris, but bigotry makes the open-source world go round. From me at ryanmarsh.com Sat Jul 21 04:23:15 2001 From: me at ryanmarsh.com (Ryan Marsh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] pleass don't protest on monday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <995714595.8040.15.camel@cocoon.butterflysoft.org> On 20 Jul 2001 23:41:41 -0500, Concerned Activist wrote: > However, let us take this opportunity to get > togeather and inform the general public of Dimitri Sklyarov's wrongful > conviction. Let's make flyers and pass them out. I assure you us Yes, we will do this by protesting. -- Regards, -ryan The three great virtues of programming are laziness, impatience, and hubris, but bigotry makes the open-source world go round. From proclus at iname.com Sat Jul 21 06:42:27 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Will Talk! July 23 Sklyarov Protest on Ho ld In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107211342.f6LDgUg08235@moerbeke> On 20 Jul, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001 proclus@iname.com wrote: Rofl! Thanks for taking the edge off of that, but I do hope that folks will keep their eyes open and so on. Things might not turn out routinely as in previous actions. For example, we have a different administration which is shaping up as much more belligerent on these issues. We have a new President who appears to enjoy sitting at the center of alot of head-bashing. I _really_ don't want to be discouraging. Just be wise, and don't make another Genoa out of this. ... now back to the grinz. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ >> Did any of you see the Matrix? > > Hmm... The Matrix, you say? > > I can't imagine anyone in the computer industry would see The > Matrix. Certainly not people involved in DMCA disputes like DeCSS. > > I just can't imagine a movie like that appealing to geeks. > > No... I would have to say that you're alone there. > J. > > -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From mickeym at mindspring.com Sat Jul 21 06:56:15 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (Mickey McGown) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fighting the DMCA References: <003f01c111a2$c0f0b860$0101a8c0@gungnir> Message-ID: <3B5989FF.F03B43A6@mindspring.com> I argued exactly that point in my comments to the LOC last year: http://www.loc.gov/copyright/reports/studies/dmca/reply/Reply010.pdf "Just as possession of a weapon does not imply participation in a crime, neither does possession of circumvention tools imply participation in an infringing act." Didn't seem to sway them at all.... mickeym Chad Horton wrote: > I've had a thought that I've been tossing around for a few months now, but > haven't had any idea what to make of it. With these new events, and the DMCA > coming closer and closer to the public eye, I'm wondering if I might be able > to contribute something useful to the fight to get rid of it. > > So far, most of the defenses of things like DeCSS that I've seen focus on > arguing soruce code as a form of speech. IMO, this is a bit of a stretch and > doesn't seem to have done all that good of a job. Has anyone ever considered > an attack on the DMCA under the 2nd Amendment, the right to bear arms? As I > understood it from my American Political Systems class, the 2nd Amendment > was created to preserve the power of the people to stand up to the Federal > Government if it ever got too Big Brother-like (Yes, I realize that specific > term didn't exist at the time). In many ways, "circumvention devices" are > much like weapons of the internet. This alone may seem like a bit of a > symblolic stretch of the original intent, but dictionary.com defines arm(s) > as "A weapon, especially a firearm", and also "(Law) Anything which a man > takes in his hand in anger, to strike or assault another with; an aggressive > weapon. --Cowell. Blackstone". With all the effort that the MPAA went > through comparing DeCSS to a crowbar used to break into a museum, it could > certainly be argued that things like DeCSS and the Advanced eBook Processor > as weapons. Of course, pushing these as weapons could also do just as much > damage if not handled carefully. > > I had made a post on slashdot.org about this awhile ago, under the username > Gerad. I never got any interesting feedback about it, other than "Wow, > that's a really interesting idea". If folks on this list think this idea has > merit, I'm thinking about writing the EFF about it to see what they > think. > > ---- > Chad "kupek" Horton | kupek@ntplx -dot- net > ICQ:1994680 | AIM:KupekCH > ~Free...The Dream Within~ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From sonjat at cs.unm.edu Sat Jul 21 07:57:10 2001 From: sonjat at cs.unm.edu (Sonja V. Tideman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Denver Information Message-ID: Hello, I know this is duplicate information for most of you, but I wanted to make sure everyone had the information. Denver's protest is still on and will be from 12-2 in front of the Denver courthouse. There is a mailing list that, if you are not currently on it, you can subscribe to it at: free-sklyarov-denver-subscribe@booyaka.com I have a web site up with information (by the way, the link is broken on the boycott adobe site). It is at: www.cs.unm.edu/~sonjat/protest.html I am trying to get a rough idea of how many people will be there, so if you could email me if you plan on being there (and how many people are coming, if you are bringing others), that would be very helpful. Of course, you are welcome to come wether or not you email me. Thanks, Sonja From schoen at loyalty.org Sat Jul 21 08:27:08 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Translation into Russian Message-ID: <20010721082708.D30157@zork.net> Could a native Russian speaker please give me a translation of the following paragraph? (Because ezhe.ru has a "free Dmitry Sklyarov" mailing list in Russian, I want to make sure that Russian speakers who find our list page are aware of it too.) I think I would prefer a transliteration in Latin characters, rather than KOI-8. RUSSIAN SPEAKERS: You are welcome on our list, which is mainly in English. Please see also http://ezhe.ru/elcomsoft/ with [or "for"] links and a mailing list in the Russian language. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From schoen at loyalty.org Sat Jul 21 08:30:19 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] "Code is not Criminal" Bumper Sticker In-Reply-To: <000b01c111e4$b516a3a0$11050341@sparky2000>; from brettbarnes@home.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 07:57:31AM -0500 References: <000b01c111e4$b516a3a0$11050341@sparky2000> Message-ID: <20010721083019.E30157@zork.net> Brett Barnes writes: > A couple of years ago I saw a bumper sticker that read, "Code is not > criminal". Any idea where I and several hundred other people can get one? > > The small print on the bumper sticker did say "eff.org", I have no idea > whether they created it or not. I've asked them but, haven't heard back yet. Unamerican Activities has done a number of "____ is not a crime" stickers, but I don't know whether they did that one. A lot of smaller sticker makers have also taken up the theme, sometimes with very small print runs (so the sticker you saw may have been some individual's project, and may be out of print now). EFF does have a current "Coding is Not a Crime" bumper sticker which is in print and advertises EFF. I'm sure sticker manufacturers would be happy to make stickers to your specifications if you don't like these. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From aaronl at vitelus.com Sat Jul 21 08:40:19 2001 From: aaronl at vitelus.com (Aaron Lehmann) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] GIFs for links to the campaign In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010721084019.C9068@vitelus.com> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 11:18:23AM -0500, Luis Guillermo RESTREPO RIVAS wrote: > Mi faris grafikon GIF por ligi al la kampanjo "liberon por Sklyarov": > > En Angla: > http://LuisGuillermo.com/libero_en.gif Where's Don Marti when you need him?? From douglas at salguod.com Sat Jul 21 08:44:49 2001 From: douglas at salguod.com (Douglas Barnes) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Don't cry for Adobe Message-ID: Bear in mind that this is not the first time that Adobe has been overly aggressive in defending what it perceives as its intellectual property. They're not some innocent pawn caught up in a process beyond their control; once again they have consciously decided to stretch the laws and the legal process to their limits in order to get their way. Let me remind everyone of how they blanketed ISPs (including one where I was working at the time) with frivolous lawsuits back in '96: http://www.anu.edu.au/mail-archives/link/link9610/0088.html There's nothing like having an unjustified lawsuit put in your hands to get your blood boiling -- I can only imagine how Dmitry feels about this now. Yes, one of the "real enemies" is the DMCA. But laws like the DMCA have come about because of companies like Adobe. It's just as important to bring pressure to bear on the companies as it is to change the laws. Cheers, Doug From mosengc at qwest.net Sat Jul 21 00:10:36 2001 From: mosengc at qwest.net (Chris Moseng) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] protest vs. rally Message-ID: <3B592AEC.84BFB285@qwest.net> I think that all "protests" are education actions. This coming from someone who's never coordinated a protest before. They're part media event, but they take place where people are so you can share your point of view with them. If you just wag signs at them and shout, you're doing a bad job. -- mosengc@qwest.net I use PGP 6.5.3 -- http://www.underwhelm.org/pgp From dont.spam at gte.net Sat Jul 21 00:15:29 2001 From: dont.spam at gte.net (8?) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: URGENT: factioning... In-Reply-To: References: <20010721005805.A11299@deadbeast.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010721014707.00af8810@pop.coin.org> I only see half a game tree here. What about these outcomes (noted by -) > > > > Consider the following scenarios: > > 1) Adobe calls of the negotiations because there are protestors outside > > + EFF can rightfully howl and bitch about this, and very effectively > > milk it in the press. You don't have to understand the DMCA to > > understand the freedom of the people peacably to assemble on public > > property outside the Adobe offices, and if Adobe bails because of that > > they're going to look very bad ("We will brook no criticism > > whatsoever"). - Adobe can howl and bitch very effectively in the press how they are trying but we aren't. Since none of the sheep understand the DMCA, they view protesters as troublemakers, and are glad the government is protecting them from these evil 'hackers'. Maybe now they can feel safe on AOL. > > 2) Adobe meets with EFF, smiles, nods, and doesn't do a damn thing. > > + EFF can milk this in the press too. The members of the mailing list > > can holler to all available news forums about Adobe's cynical > attempt to > > manipulate the protestors, and if EFF does end up in meetings with > > Adobe again -- which will only happen when they are in a positon of > > greater strength than now, they can use Adobe's previous > negotiations in > > bad faith as a weapon against them. - Once again, adobe is only having this meeting so THEY can spin/milk the press. EFF is going to hand them a hammer and let themselves get beat in the head with it. I believe that adobe has already built up plenty of bad faith, but that doesn't seem to matter, does it? Mistrust of your adversary is hardly a weapon. > > 3) Adobe makes some token gesture which doesn't actually do anything to > > benefit Dmitry. > > + The most likely scenario and the most difficult to defend against. > > But that's all right, inevitably we're going to have to protest the > > federal government to get Dmity freed. If the protests go forward > > anyway, Adobe still gets their black eye and other U.S. companies get > > a message. - I'm sure this will happen, no matter what the outcome of monday's meeting is (although I will expand the scope; it won't benefit anyone). I don't see how this will hurt adobe though, as they get the police action they (and corp. america) want. I do agree though, that US companies will get the message, TIME TO DONATE MORE MONEY TO PACS! > > 4) Adobe withdraws its complaint and calls for Dmitry's release and vows > > non-cooperation with the FBI, making the case more difficult to > > prosecute (remember, discovery hasn't taken place yet, and Adobe has the > > resources to resist with some effectiveness, and the DoJ has > > lower-hanging fruit to pick). > > + The most unlikely scenario, and as much of a victory as could possibly > > be expected from Adbobe, aside from a denunciation of the DMCA itself, > > so unlikely that I really don't see any point in speculating on it. > > - I would consider this the hell hath frozen scenario, so I won't speculate further myself. > > -- > > G. Branden Robinson | "To be is to do" -- Plato > >We mostly agree on the shape of the game tree. I think the probability of >branch 4 is not tiny. > >oo--JS. I agree, tiny is much too large, infinitesimal is more appropriate. From ld at upt.org Sat Jul 21 01:25:28 2001 From: ld at upt.org (Lane Davis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm sure they are hardworking.. umm.. except for the programmers that decided to use ROT13 *ENCODING* as cryptography. That seems like a cheap shortcut ;-) Not going to comment on the communist vs. capitalism stuff, but a person IS sitting in jail for something they said, and something they wrote. I'm less concerned about Elcomsoft than I am for the state of civil liberties in a country that I love (no comment on it's government or management however). Also, keep in mind that usually the geeks in a company are drasticly different people from the suits in management that make the real business decisions ( I guess that's something for us all to think about ). My $0.02, ->L On 21-Jul-2001 y s wrote: > >> >>I cannot imagine a better thing to do with my time than fighting >corporate >>tyrrany. > O yeah, tyrrany, really. I happen to know many guys from Adobe. They are > very smart and hardworking, and they consider Adobe a great place to work. > They created great products, unlike Sklyarov and his company, who just try > to make bucks on breaking and reverse engineering other's software. Sure, > Elcomsoft loves all this noise, it is free advertisement for them, that they > would never get otherwise. > >>2) If you're implying that the Soviets were really communist, you've got a >>whole lot of reading to do. > > I, for one, don't need any more reading, I lived there. But if you are > talking of reading, - open Gulag Archipelago, rather than leftist media > (both here and there). > >>Not a communist, but I know one when I see one. > > Take a mirror. > > JSSJ > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov + --_____________________________________________________________________-- + | | Lane Davis No man is an island, but if you take a bunch | | | | of dead guys and tie them together, they make | | | | Phone: 602-722-1200 a pretty good raft. | | + --_____________________________________________________________________-- + From unicorn at schloss.li Sat Jul 21 03:10:20 2001 From: unicorn at schloss.li (Black Unicorn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday References: <200107210839.f6L8dPg07825@moerbeke> Message-ID: <001101c111cd$59608470$d2972040@thinkpad574> > On 20 Jul, Black Unicorn wrote: > > Note: > > > > Adobe- owing to the kidnapping of its big wig some time ago- is very > > paranoid. > > > > Please be aware and be cautious as they may be prone to overreact to > > taunting. > > > > (Do not taunt happy-fun-acrobat). > > This looks like a joke. If so, it is really hilarious, but otherwise > sorry. Unfortunately it's not. From proclus at iname.com Sat Jul 21 03:42:12 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus realm) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Long night, Wired morning Message-ID: <3B595C84.22B8A3B2@iname.com> Cool! The Wired story is brilliant! http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,45437,00.html Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From Jonathan at Weesner.org Sat Jul 21 04:52:21 2001 From: Jonathan at Weesner.org (Jonathan Weesner) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Please relax, and read this plea for compassion Message-ID: <3B596CF5.4090204@Weesner.org> Over the last several days I have watched with growing anxiety as the DMCA battle escalates on all sides while compassion for Dmitry seems to fade into the background. We on this list know that protest and controversy, once taken to the net, can ignite and blaze into a firestorm within hours. But back away from the blaze, the rest of America has a calmer, more complicated view. In the big picture, a few truths are obvious: 1. Many American consumers, academics and software coders are convinced that thier rights have been trampled on and stolen. 2. Many American Companies are convinced there property is being stolen. 3. A distracted American Congress is wondering how a unanimous vote could dissolve into such controversy. 4. The American Supreme Court is tracking this legal hurricane as it moves towards thier doorstep. 5. Without consensus or clarification, the FBI is left to enforce thier interpretation of the Law. But that's just the big picture. First we must deal with the little picture. The one that includes Dmitry. I believe that somewhere in this confusing little picture, there is a simple truth. A young Russian man has become trapped in a firestorm of controversial, untested, American legislation.... and he needs to go home to his family. If all five big picture players step back for a while, I think they will see that Dmitry is not an evil cracker. Nor a thief of intellectual property. Nor a martyr for our cause. He's just a young PHD student from Moscow, a Russian father of two Russian children, who does not belong at ground zero of the protracted, rapidly escalating battle over the American DMCA. So let's do the right thing. The compassionate thing. Let's rally on Monday; but not a protest rally -- a humanitarian rally. Leave the "BOYCOTT ADOBE!" signs and the "REPEAL DMCA NOW!" signs at home. Replace them with "PLEASE FREE DMITRY" and "LET DMITRY GO HOME". Let's allow Adobe to do the right thing. The humanitarian thing. Let Dmitry go home. Let's allow the FBI a respectable out. They cannot tolerate otherwise. And we all know they're in need of a little more respect nowadays. To do otherwise would not only lack diplomacy. It would lack ruth. Then all players can retrench, raise thier legal arguments and wage this DMCA battle through the Supreme Court right back into Congress. In short, let's push this smelly pile of DMCA pooh back into Congress. But lets not pulverise a young Russian in the process! Jonathan Weesner From arto.laitinen at co.inet.fi Sat Jul 21 05:53:51 2001 From: arto.laitinen at co.inet.fi (Arto Laitinen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Proposal to Free Dmitry, Freedom to Speech and make SW Innovations... Message-ID: <20010721125408.ELYM1907.fep07.tmt.tele.fi@default> Hi all, I have thougth this very situation is dividing waters in that manner, what is the right to inspect and invent in SW field and on the other side, what is legal/illegal to do if you have capabilities to crack (commercial) IT systems, maybe violating Copyright and stealing Intellectual Property, and how to protect future innovations. Although I personally don?t like the way Dmitry were arrested, we also should notice the other sides of the story. They at Adobe, as the inventors of the eBook system, want to protect their intellectual property and thus their business opportunities, no doubt in that... And then we should consider about the copyright of the originator/owner of the contents, too. Who would publish or invent anything if the payment could be circumvented? And let's go to the situation, when FBI's arresting someone inventing the other route, to stop the obviously illegal manner of doing things. How could this be avoided in the future...? And what was the failure of Dmitry?s case - he proved in public that commercial encryption/protection systems could be unharnessed in quite a simple and nonexpensive way. Stuck the original rabbit hole, whilst there are some other ones digging holes somewhere else, or doing co-operation with such a intelligent guy/institution to make the system better against further intrusions...? Hey, that's the question!! So, I make a proposal, how to solve this, other ongoing and future situations; someone found a way to decrypt or something like that, should first go to the inventor/owner of that system, tell them how fragile it is and then also tell them, how to improve the system. There should be a substantial financial price to the 'rabbit hole finder', not shoot or jail him. And thinking to protest against Adobe or thing like DMCA or makes me feel sick... No one should make the situation worse than it is, so no striking, please. This may sound day dreaming, but it clearly shows how everyone, both IP/copyrigh owner and the 'rabbit hole finder', and in long run, the consumer, could benefit... From sonjat at cs.unm.edu Sat Jul 21 07:42:13 2001 From: sonjat at cs.unm.edu (Sonja V. Tideman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Denver Information Message-ID: Hello, I know this is duplicate information for most of you, but I wanted to make sure everyone had the information. Denver's protest is still on and will be from 12-2 in front of the Denver courthouse. There is a mailing list that, if you are not currently on it, you can subscribe to it at: free-sklyarov-denver-subscribe@booyaka.com I have a web site up with information (by the way, the link is broken on the boycott adobe site). It is at: www.cs.unm.edu/~sonjat/protest.html I am trying to get a rough idea of how many people will be there, so if you could email me if you plan on being there (and how many people are coming, if you are bringing others), that would be very helpful. Of course, you are welcome to come wether or not you email me. Thanks, Sonja From pedro at tastytronic.net Sat Jul 21 08:43:25 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago people new to the list PLEASE READ! Message-ID: <20010721104325.I364@tastytronic.net> For Chicago people new to the list, please see: http://ufo.chicago.il.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sklyarov-chicago/ We are organizing and "signing up" there. Our official instruction sheet with directions and everything else will be available some time today through the list and also online. Keep your eyes peeled, and if you're intending to protest, subscribe. Thank you all, and Free Dmitry, pedro -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- FBI has imprisioned a Russian software engineer for promoting and teaching the concept of "fair use". Read more: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From aaronl at vitelus.com Sat Jul 21 08:47:26 2001 From: aaronl at vitelus.com (Aaron Lehmann) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hams? (was Re: Communications) In-Reply-To: <20010720172912.A3637@cubicle.net> Message-ID: <20010721084726.D9068@vitelus.com> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 05:29:12PM -0700, Josh Richards wrote: > Well let us find out. :-) > > Any hams out there that are going to be any of the rallies and/or protests? > Would be a good way to coordinate things and get out info... Mmmm that would be fun. Of course, there's always IRC. From schoen at loyalty.org Sat Jul 21 08:48:51 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] GIFs for links to the campaign In-Reply-To: <20010721084019.C9068@vitelus.com>; from aaronl@vitelus.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 08:40:19AM -0700 References: <20010721084019.C9068@vitelus.com> Message-ID: <20010721084851.F30157@zork.net> Aaron Lehmann writes: > On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 11:18:23AM -0500, Luis Guillermo RESTREPO RIVAS wrote: > > Mi faris grafikon GIF por ligi al la kampanjo "liberon por Sklyarov": > > > > En Angla: > > http://LuisGuillermo.com/libero_en.gif Kie vi trovis Esperantiston kiu volas liberigi Sklyarov? :-) -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From sethf at sethf.com Sat Jul 21 08:49:30 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: DMCA flyer on web Message-ID: <200107211549.LAA20992@oobleck.mit.edu> Paul, that's a great effort. But you have a few errors there. The best historical resource I've found is http://eon.law.harvard.edu/openlaw/DVD/dmca/ In http://www.paultopia.net/adobe/flyer.html , you write > The DMCA is the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, passed by the > U.S. Congress in 1999 [WAS IT 1999??], It was, per above, October 28, 1998 > The DMCA has one particularly bad section, called the > anti-circumvention provision. This makes it a crime to break > encryption used to prevent someone from getting access to electronic > content. This also makes it a crime to "traffic" in a tool used to > break that kind of encryption. This is written so broadly, that, in > theory, decoding the sentence E-thay mca-day eally-ray ucks-say from > the Pig Latin could be a crime. As one who has felt the chilling effect of the DMCA quite directly, I hate to criticize this. But, really, the above isn't quite accurate. I fear it'll lose people for overstating. It's a crime only if you do it for "financial gain". http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/1204.html Otherwise, you "just" can be sued for everything you own and then some, pauperized through legal fees, which is bad enough. -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From esper at sherohman.org Sat Jul 21 09:04:24 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] pleass don't protest on monday In-Reply-To: ; from ConcernedActivist@peto.physics.wisc.edu on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 11:41:41PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010721110424.B3662@sherohman.org> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 11:41:41PM -0500, Concerned Activist wrote: > Please don't protest on monday. > "By silencing one man all of society is injured." > -John Stuart Mill Irony, anyone? -- With the arrest of Dimitry Sklyarov it has become apparent that it is not safe for non US software engineers to visit the United States. - Alan Cox "To prevent unauthorized reading..." - Adobe eBook reader license From declan at well.com Sat Jul 21 09:11:35 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday In-Reply-To: ; from ravage@einstein.ssz.com on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 10:39:06PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010721121135.B7990@cluebot.com> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 10:39:06PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > An unconstitutional law. A law which limits freedom in a country which is > ultimately governed by "Congress shall make no law..." > > If you can't catch that clue, there is no hope. The interesting thing in this case is that Dmitry was not arrested for discussing or revealing information about Adobe's arguably-sucky copy protection system. If you read the FBI affidavit (http://cryptome.org/usa-v-sklyarov.htm), you'll note that the FBI seems only concerned about his commercial activities: Diaz affirmed that he believes the Elcomsoft Software program, coupled with the Elcomsoft unlocking key, circumvents protection afforded by a technological measure developed by Adobe for its Acrobat eBook Reader either by avoiding, bypassing, removing, deactiviating, or otherwise impairing the technological measure. I believe Dmitry Sklyarov, employee of Elcomsoft and the individual listed on the Elcomsoft software products as the copyright holder of the program sold and produced by Elcomsoft, known as the Advanced eBook Processor, has willfully and for financial gain (etc.) That's because the DMCA only makes commercial circumvention a crime: (a) In general. -- Any person who violates section 1201 or 1202 willfully and for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain, (1) shall be fined not more than $500,000 or imprisoned for not more than 5 years or both, for the first offense Non-commercial circumvention may, of course, be a civil offense, as 2600 found out in the New York case brought by the movie studios. This state of affairs creates a mild problem (to go back to the recent topic of discussion on cypherpunks) for those who strongly believe in the First Amendment when applied to nonprofit or not-for-profit speech but less so when it comes to speech that's part of a commercial transaction. For instance, a guy ranting on Usenet, they say, should have free speech rights, but the tobacco companies or pharmaceutical companies can properly be muzzled. Let's hope Dmitry, a budding capitalist, doesn't fall into that same commercial-speech-can-be-regulated catchall. -Declan From schoen at loyalty.org Sat Jul 21 09:19:58 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Proposal to Free Dmitry, Freedom to Speech and make SW Innovations... In-Reply-To: <20010721125408.ELYM1907.fep07.tmt.tele.fi@default>; from arto.laitinen@co.inet.fi on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 03:53:51PM +0300 References: <20010721125408.ELYM1907.fep07.tmt.tele.fi@default> Message-ID: <20010721091958.G30157@zork.net> Arto Laitinen writes: > Hi all, I have thougth this very situation is dividing waters in that manner, what is the right to inspect and invent in SW field and on the other side, what is legal/illegal > to do if you have capabilities to crack (commercial) IT systems, maybe violating Copyright and stealing Intellectual Property, and how to protect future innovations. > > Although I personally don?t like the way Dmitry were arrested, we also should notice the other sides of the story. > > They at Adobe, as the inventors of the eBook system, want to protect their intellectual property and thus their business opportunities, no doubt in that... No doubt, indeed. > And then we should consider about the copyright of the originator/owner of the contents, too. Who would publish or invent anything if the payment could be > circumvented? Copyright is not the only reason anyone publishes anything. Before the 1700s, there were no copyrights anywhere in the world, and yet many of the greatest works of civilization were produced before that. There was also a publishing industry before copyright, although there is little doubt that copyright has helped that industry tremendously. Copyright provides an increased chance of payments that spurs creation of many creative works, but it isn't the only reason those works are created. There is a big difference between traditional U.S. copyright law (which was re-codified through the U.S. Copyright Act) and the new Digital Millennium Copyright Act. The traditional law gives copyright holders a list of enumerated powers, with a long list of exceptions to those powers. One example I have been mentioning here is adaptation of works for use by the disabled -- in 17 USC 121 is an exception to copyright holders' powers, so that copyright holders can't (use copyright law to) prevent this sort of adaptation. There are many other limitations on the exclusive rights of copyright holders. The DMCA is only three years old. It attempts to protect publishers' use of technology to attain _absolute_ control over the use of works, which was never the guarantee of traditional copyright law. Although many publishers (understandably, I suppose) were enthusiastic about this prospect, it goes far beyond ordinary copyright. Once a "technological protection measure" is in place, a publisher can, in practice, prevent any use of which it disapproves. This is true even though the law does not give publishers the _legal_ right to (use copyright law to) control every use, only certain uses. (Traditionally, they could only control commercial distribution and certain related uses; this was eventually expanded to include noncommercial distribution and certain related uses. Again, they are still not -- on the terms of the original Copyright Act -- allowed to control uses such as personal adaptation and adaptation for the benefit of disabled people, certain duplication and presentation for educational purposes, and a variety of others. But the technology allows them to exert control here.) There are a lot of essays about why the DMCA is bad. Many of them are written by people who think that traditional copyright law is _very good_. (Brad Templeton -- I'm not sure whether he's on this list -- is a person who believes strongly in copyright but disagrees with the DMCA. It isn't difficult to find such people among copyright law professors, either.) I only know of one essay about why copy protection technology itself is bad, which is different from the argument that the law (the DMCA) which protects copy protection technology is bad. That is "What's Wrong With Copy Protection", by John Gilmore: http://www.toad.com/gnu/whatswrong.html I'm sure that Gilmore's essay could be expanded. There is also "The Right to Read" by Richard M. Stallman. http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html The important thing about that story is that it was written before the DMCA was passed. I think it was written before the DMCA was even proposed. Many people read it then and laughed; I don't think they're laughing right now. The point is that copy protection technology, at least in some cases, is harming uses which would have been completely legal before the DMCA. Under the DMCA, those uses might be illegal for the sole reason that you have to break through copy protection in order to make them -- not because they are infringements of copyright. > Stuck the original rabbit hole, whilst there are some other ones digging holes somewhere else, or doing co-operation with such a intelligent guy/institution to make the > system better against further intrusions...? Hey, that's the question!! > > So, I make a proposal, how to solve this, other ongoing and future situations; someone found a way to decrypt or something like that, should first go to the > inventor/owner of that system, tell them how fragile it is and then also tell them, how to improve the system. There should be a substantial financial price to the 'rabbit > hole finder', not shoot or jail him. And thinking to protest against Adobe or thing like DMCA or makes me feel sick... No one should make the situation worse than it is, > so no striking, please. There is an ethical principle that some people endorse concerning security holes that allow people to break into a system: they say that the vendor of the software should be notified first, and then, after the vendor has had some time to respond, the vulnerability should be published. Not everyone agrees that it is bad to publish details before notifying the vendor, but many people prefer to do it that way, to give the vendor a chance to improve security. Of course, the details must be published eventually (otherwise the vendor might never fix the problem, and try to keep it secret). But I don't agree that this situation is parallel to situations where people find security flaws that allow you to break into someone else's computer. In this situation, someone found a security flaw which allows you to "break into" documents that you purchased or wrote! And it's not even "breaking in" so much as converting (against the publishers' wishes) into a more open format, in order to be free of many arbitrary restrictions. There are many legal reasons to wish to do this, and many legal uses of AEBPR that have been made in countries which have copyright law but no DMCA. If I bought an eBook, I would want to use AEBPR so I could read the book on my Linux system (there is no Adobe eBook reader for Linux, but there are many PDF readers). Do we need to make a list of straightforwardly legal applications of AEBPR? They seem obvious to me! This is not a case where I personally wish for "better security": yes, there are security flaws, and they are the responsibility of Adobe, and ElcomSoft has "just demonstrated them". However, if they are "fixed" by taking control away from the consumer, after ElcomSoft has helped return some of that control, I don't feel that's a good solution. I know that some people disagree with this. I think it was Declan's article that pointed out that, since 1883, cryptographers have known that a cryptosystem, to be secure, must keep a key secret from its adversary. DRM and copy protection schemes that work on regular desktop computers don't do that, because they publish the key inside the reader software they give you. The key is not "secret" just because it is inside a computer program; many people can read computer programs, in object code form, straightforwardly. > This may sound day dreaming, but it clearly shows how everyone, both IP/copyrigh owner and the 'rabbit hole finder', and in long run, the consumer, could benefit... I don't think consumers benefit from the loss of open standard media formats that _anyone_ can implement, without prior arrangement. Clearly many publishers do think so: they often say that works will "only" be made legally available in electronic form if they have restrictive DRM systems, and legal protection for those DRM systems. Since possibly consumers benefit from having works available in electronic form, these publishers think that consumers must want DRM, even if they don't know it yet! -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From declan at well.com Sat Jul 21 09:28:09 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Legal Question In-Reply-To: <01072016132505.18608@frankie>; from ausage@smoke-and-mirrors.net on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 04:13:25PM -0400 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <01072016132505.18608@frankie> Message-ID: <20010721122809.D7990@cluebot.com> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 04:13:25PM -0400, Andrew Lawrence wrote: > Is it not possible to use the fact that this process may take years, probably > staying the prosecuting of Mr Sklyarov, to obtain bail or release for him. > > It appears to me, as a layman from another country, that holding someone, > especially a foreign citizen, in jail for years, so that they could possibly > be prosecuted goes against all principles of freedom and due process. The problem is that this is what the allow allows. It doesn't require it, but the law does permit it. Blame Congress. -Declan From schoen at loyalty.org Sat Jul 21 09:27:49 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday In-Reply-To: <20010721121135.B7990@cluebot.com>; from declan@well.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 12:11:35PM -0400 References: <20010721121135.B7990@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010721092749.H30157@zork.net> Declan McCullagh writes: > That's because the DMCA only makes commercial circumvention a crime: > > (a) In general. -- Any person who violates section 1201 or 1202 > willfully and for purposes of commercial advantage or private > financial gain, (1) shall be fined not more than $500,000 or > imprisoned for not more than 5 years or both, for the first offense > > Non-commercial circumvention may, of course, be a civil offense, as 2600 > found out in the New York case brought by the movie studios. > > This state of affairs creates a mild problem (to go back to the recent > topic of discussion on cypherpunks) for those who strongly believe in > the First Amendment when applied to nonprofit or not-for-profit speech > but less so when it comes to speech that's part of a commercial > transaction. > > For instance, a guy ranting on Usenet, they say, should have free > speech rights, but the tobacco companies or pharmaceutical companies > can properly be muzzled. Let's hope Dmitry, a budding capitalist, > doesn't fall into that same commercial-speech-can-be-regulated > catchall. I agree, and I fear that this is why StreamBox settled in the _Real Networks v. Streambox_ case. They didn't necessarily feel optimistic that their commercial speech would be protected in the view of the courts. The outcome of that case is certainly troubling for this one. For those who don't want to protest Adobe on Monday, why don't you go protest Real Networks? Goodness knows they could use it. :-) Streambox VCR is useful in some of the same ways as AEBPR, although there are perhaps more legal uses for AEBPR and more illegal uses for Streambox VCR. They are both proprietary commercial software and many people do argue that there is a free speech right to sell them (as there is a free speech right to sell books!). But it would be more immediately obvious if they were free/open source. Unfortunately, courts already seem to have a hard enough time believing that electronic publication of free/open source software is protected by the first amendment. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From declan at well.com Sat Jul 21 09:33:37 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] street permits In-Reply-To: <20010720204654.17461.qmail@brouhaha.com>; from phr-2001@nightsong.com on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 08:46:54PM -0000 References: <20010720204654.17461.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20010721123337.E7990@cluebot.com> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 08:46:54PM -0000, phr-2001@nightsong.com wrote: > Some people have been asking about whether they need street permits to > protest. IANAL, but from other protest experiences, and basic knowledge > of how the first amendment works, I believe the answer is: > > You do NOT need a street permit to protest in the US. Protesting > political issues on the sidewalk is protected free speech of the > highest order and you have the absolute right to do it with nobody's > permission, as long as you stay off the street, you don't use > amplified sound, you keep moving (if you stay in one spot, that's > loitering--that's the reason picketers walk back and forth), and you > don't block pedestrian traffic. My fuzzy recollection of DC law says that the above is incorrect, or at least incomplete. Laws vary by city, and your general advice is not specific enough and could get people in trouble if they blindly follow it. For instance, one article I wrote quoted Capitol Police as saying 20 people or more require a permit: http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,42676,00.html I once got a permit from U.S. Park Police for a 50-person gathering for a presidential campaign I worked on in 1992. -Declan From torsten at inetw.net Sat Jul 21 10:38:53 2001 From: torsten at inetw.net (Torsten Howard) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] unsuscribe Message-ID: <200107211638.MAA06829@mail.inetw.net> unsuscribe From declan at well.com Sat Jul 21 09:36:16 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Legal Question In-Reply-To: <20010721122809.D7990@cluebot.com>; from declan@well.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 12:28:09PM -0400 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <01072016132505.18608@frankie> <20010721122809.D7990@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010721123616.B8827@cluebot.com> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 12:28:09PM -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: > The problem is that this is what the allow allows. It doesn't require it, > but the law does permit it. Blame Congress. That is, what the "the law allows." From schoen at loyalty.org Sat Jul 21 09:37:19 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] unsuscribe In-Reply-To: <200107211638.MAA06829@mail.inetw.net>; from torsten@inetw.net on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 12:38:53PM -0500 References: <200107211638.MAA06829@mail.inetw.net> Message-ID: <20010721093719.J30157@zork.net> Please don't send administrative requests to the mailing lists. You can unsubscribe using the web form at http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From sethf at sethf.com Sat Jul 21 09:40:52 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday References: <20010721121135.B7990@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <3B59B094.595B2FF4@sethf.com> Declan McCullagh wrote: > This state of affairs creates a mild problem (to go back to the recent > topic of discussion on cypherpunks) for those who strongly believe in > the First Amendment when applied to nonprofit or not-for-profit speech > but less so when it comes to speech that's part of a commercial > transaction. Heck, Declan, as far as I recall, you don't believe that the First Amendment applies to people who merely REPEAT (for profit) too many words you originally wrote as speech that's part of a certain commercial transaction (i.e. "copyrighted articles", which you are paid for). In fact, I can't look this up now, but I believe you've posted to the cypherpunks list on this very topic in the past. You want the government to punish people who simply say too many words that you originally said. Isn't that very inconsistent philosophically for you? By the way, as you know, this distinction is enshrined in copyright law: http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html Sec. 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; > Let's hope Dmitry, a budding capitalist, doesn't fall > into that same commercial-speech-can-be-regulated catchall. But Declan, as a Libertarian proselytizer. how can you justify making your living from a government-granted monopoly which infringes on free speech? Note the above is not necessarily my view. But if you are going to try to use this tragedy to recruit people for silly Libertarian ideology, I think consistency demands you apply the same argument to your articles too. Have you changed your views on this topic since I last saw them discussed? -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From declan at well.com Sat Jul 21 09:47:17 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Crossposting to other lists (Was: Re: Rallies on Monday) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010720192611.00bfa1b0@flex.com>; from reeza@flex.com on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 07:42:05PM -1000 References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010720192611.00bfa1b0@flex.com> Message-ID: <20010721124717.C8827@cluebot.com> I strongly suggest that folks on free-sklyarov (ahem, L.S., you know who you are) do not crosspost to other lists such as dc-stuff and cypherpunks. This is the result, and nobody here needs more traffic, especially off-topic traffic. -Declan On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 07:42:05PM -1000, Reese wrote: > At 02:23 PM 7/20/01, dumbGeEk wrote: > > >into blowing open the Gary Condit fuck up... ) > > > >I mean this ass hole fucked some Intern and then killed her... > > Your proof that he killed her? You've shared it with the D.C. police > I take it? Condit is in custody now? Or should we downgrade this > fantastically strong assertion to just your wild assed guess, and send > the nice young men in clean white coats after you, to check you out? > > >maybe I'm a > >little crazy here (which I have been told oftern that I am) but that seems > >a hell of a lot more important then some fucking Commie. > > Anyone who cannot distinguish between Russian citizens who were victims > under communism and Communists deserves to be treated like a Communist. > You need more than two clue pills. > > >Just my 2 cents (after about 12 beers...) > > A little crazy? No. A lot drunk. Take two aspirin with the handful of > clue pills, you'll need them. > > Oh, this is the last time I'm going to leave your To: and Cc: includes > intact. If you don't have the style, grace or courtesy to send separate > emails to different lists, you deserve the hangover you should wake up > with and 10,000 more all at once too. Fuckhead. > > Reese > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From declan at well.com Sat Jul 21 09:51:42 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Welcome to new subscribers; updates In-Reply-To: <20010720185320.K6900@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 06:53:20PM -0700 References: <20010720185320.K6900@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010721125142.D8827@cluebot.com> Seth: I suspect many of these 533 subscribers are not going to want to stay on a list that receives 500+ email messages per day. Have you thought about setting up a moderated announce list for just related news? -Declan On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 06:53:20PM -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote: > This list now has 533 subscribers. Traffic has continued to be quite > high, largely due to the discussion about the Monday events and EFF's > role. > > I welcome everyone to the list and provide the following reminder: > > > PLEASE DO NOT HARASS ADOBE ON THE TELEPHONE OR SEND THEM ANY OTHER > > KIND OF HARASSING OR THREATENING COMMUNICATION! (The same goes for > > the U.S. Marshal Service, the U.S. Attorney's Office, and the U.S. > > District Court.) Of course, it is OK to send criticism to Adobe and > > to the U.S. Attorney. Let your criticism be civil and relevant. > > > > When people sent threats to the MPAA -- following the MPAA's > > reprehensible prosecution of 2600 Enterprises -- the MPAA actually > > quoted these in court and used them to hurt the defendants' case! > > My latest news is that Dmitry Sklyarov was still held in Las Vegas as > of yesterday and had managed to talk to at least one person by > telephone. If you (a list reader) do manage to speak to him, please > pass on the word that over 500 people have signed up to support him > and that he is receiving messages of support from all over the world. > > > IN OTHER NEWS > ------------- > > The EFF decision today to postpone its call for demonstration at Adobe > has caused a lot of controversy. I hope that some of that controversy > can move off-list now. I was in the EFF office in my capacity as a > volunteer today, and the EFF is well aware that this decision was very > controversial. You can certainly continue to take up this discussion > with the EFF. > > EFF will meet with Adobe on Monday to discuss the situation. > > http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010720_eff_sklyarov_alert.html > > Some other groups are continuing the demonstrations on Monday as they > had previously scheduled. Information about those groups may continue > to be posted here by them. I'm aware of this co-ordination page > > http://www.boycottadobe.com/pages/rallies.html > > for those who are choosing to continue with these events. > > > PLEASE CALL > ----------- > > If you are well-informed about the situation and would like to > express your opinion, I think the following are appropriate > recipients: > > (Please remember to avoid any abusive, harassing, or threatening > messages, which hurt Mr. Sklyarov's cause!) > > * Adobe Systems, Inc. > > http://www.adobe.com/ > > * Your U.S. Representative or Senators (if you are in the U.S.) > > http://www.congress.org/ > > * The U.S. Embassy, Consulate, or Interests Section for the place > where you live (if you are not in the U.S.) > > http://usembassy.state.gov/ > > * The U.S. Attorney General > > http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/ > > * The U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of California > > http://www.usaondca.com/ > > * The legal and technical media, and the local media for the place > where you live -- if they are not yet aware of the situation > > * Your local newspaper (you can write a letter to the editor) > > > PLEASE DO NOT CALL > ------------------ > > * The Russian Consulate in San Francisco (they already know about > the situation!) > > * Media that have already covered the story (unless you have something > new to add) > > * The U.S. Marshal Service or the Federal Public Defender (they seem to > have no useful information for the public) > > > ADMINISTRIVIA > ------------- > > You can only post from the address under which you are subscribed _and > your envelope and From: addresses must match, which some mail software > does not do correctly_. If you post from another address, your mail > will be flagged and delayed until I can review it. > > If you send me additional addresses from which you'd like to be able > to post, I can enable that, but it may take some time before I can get > to it. > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or search the archives: > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov/ > > To browse the archives: > > http://zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/ > > Thanks to Nick Moffitt for doing list hosting. > > -- > Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I > Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will > down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From iron at mso.oz.net Sat Jul 21 09:55:44 2001 From: iron at mso.oz.net (Mike Orr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WTO and Sklyarov/Adobe/DMCA In-Reply-To: ; from neale@woozle.org on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 11:57:23PM -0700 References: <002601c1122d$150e94f0$6501a8c0@sarnath> Message-ID: <20010721095544.A14034@mso.oz.net> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 11:57:23PM -0700, Neale Pickett wrote: > But we don't want to spoil things for the EFF by protesting anyway. WTO > has left a sour taste in our mouth (who can name three issues raised by > protesters during WTO? Okay now who can name three kinds of anti-riot > gear used by police?), so we want to make sure we use our ability to > protest as a strategic tool, not an end in and of itself. > > This strategy may not work so well in other parts of the country, less > seasoned by protests gone awry :-) I don't agree with Neale's negative assessment of the WTO protests, but I support his position of restraint in the Sklyarov/Adobe/DMCA case. And maybe--as he says--it's because I was at WTO and WTO II (=the anniversary), am living with its aftermath, and saw how the (especially non-local) media misrepresented it and various (local) interests use its memory for their own ends. BTW, I'm ambivalent about "free trade" vs "fair trade", but I'm hopping mad about the DMCA. I must object to the term "protests gone awry". Many people in Seattle feel the WTO protest didn't "go awry": it went just fine, thank you. The main denouncers are a few boosters wringing their hands over our "tarnished image as a world-class city", whatever that means. I guess it means they can't woo companies here as easily as they used to. Big deal. This is not to discount the real negative consequences of the event: non-protestors being arrested, protesters receiving "excessive force", and innocent businesses downtown losing money. But the real lesson of the WTO protest transcends these unfortunate occurrences and even the political issues involved. The lesson is that ordinary people can make a difference. 20,000 people attending--and millions of people who didn't--rediscovered the fact that they are not powerless, that they can make governments and companies listen to their concerns, and if not force them to do the right thing, at least force them to give lip service to it or find themselves in an embarrassing situation. The whole four days of WTO was worth it just to see Madeline Albright detained in her hotel for half a day! Sorry for the inconvenience, Madeline, but you unwittingly ushered in an age of public participation in "the system", and that's what the United States of America is supposed to be about. But what were the protesters saying and how was it perceived? This is why I urge restraint in the current situation. "Who can name three issues raised by protesters during WTO? Okay now who can name three kinds of anti-riot gear used by police?" This is exactly right. All the anti-globalization protests have done a great job of drawing attention to themselves, but a bad job of drawing attention to the issues. And it's not because of a lack of trying: WTO and WTO II had teach-ins galore (and still do). It's because the media likes to report on civil unrest and name-calling, and once that starts, everything else goes out the window. 80% of the newspaper coverage of all the protests the past two years has been about the outlandish things people did, not about the issues. Also, remember that the public has much less understanding of DMCA issues than they do about trade/NAFTA/labor, and our position sounds so weird and paranoid they are reluctant to accept it. We must not lose our historic chance to educate people about the DMCA by degenerating into an anti-Adobe protest or a protest-for-the-sake-of-protest. This last point bears repeating. During both WTO and WTOII, there were three distinct types of protesters during the day (every day). In the daytime, the talk was almost exclusively on trade/NAFTA/labor/environment, the labor unions were out in force, and the most ingenious forms of protest took place. At WTO II, the protesters presented the mayor with a cake to thank him for bringing the trade conference to town and thus giving a forum for the protesters to state their grievances. (The irony of course is that the mayor is a booster!) (PS. It wasn't the mayor who initiated the conference.) Around 5pm, most of those people went home and another type of protester started arriving, and the rhetoric changed from being mostly about trade to being mostly about free speech and police excesses. Then around 8pm, most of those people went home and a third type of protester became predominent. These people were more anti-police than anything else, and were determined to sit in the intersections until they were arrested. It felt like you could ask somebody, "Hey, wasn't this protest supposed to be about trade?" and they would have responded, "Trade? What's trade?" -- -Mike (Iron) Orr, iron@mso.oz.net (if mail problems: mso@jimpick.com) http://iron.cx/ English * Esperanto * Russkiy * Deutsch * Espan~ol From declan at well.com Sat Jul 21 09:58:03 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fighting the DMCA In-Reply-To: ; from chris.savage@crblaw.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 08:34:37AM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010721125803.E8827@cluebot.com> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 08:34:37AM -0400, Chris Savage wrote: > That said, a la "The Weapon Shops of Isher," I kinda liked the 2nd Amendment > idea... Yeah, this came up a few times in the crypto debates -- until folks realized how many regulations firearms are subject to. Imagine: A waiting period until you can get "portable PDF decryptors," a flat ban on "assault PDF decoders," no concealed carry of "portable PDF decryptors" in most cities, a federal database of "PDF decoder" owners, restrictions on owning PDFware if you're a convicted felon, etc. -Declan From schoen at loyalty.org Sat Jul 21 10:00:09 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Welcome to new subscribers; updates In-Reply-To: <20010721125142.D8827@cluebot.com>; from declan@well.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 12:51:42PM -0400 References: <20010720185320.K6900@zork.net> <20010721125142.D8827@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010721100009.N30157@zork.net> Declan McCullagh writes: > Seth: > I suspect many of these 533 subscribers are not going to want to stay on > a list that receives 500+ email messages per day. The average is actually still below 300 messages per day, but this does make it an extremely high-traffic list. This weekend should push the overall average below 200 messages per day. :-) (These numbers are based on the archives, and maybe the archives aren't archiving X-No-Archive posts.) > Have you thought about setting up a moderated announce list for just > related news? It's not clear to me that I am "authoritative" enough to do this. I would be happy to set up a "Seth's Sklyarov Updates" list (and I could invite Seth Finkelstein to submit news items too...), but I'm not sure whether people would find that more useful than, say, reading your Wired articles about the case, or someone else's news articles. If the EFF or someone else becomes legal counsel for Sklyarov, that organization would be able to set up a more authoritative announce list. I'm confident that the traffic here will fall after a little while. In the meantime, I hope subscribers who find it hard to keep up can use threading or digest mode. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From gl_jason at yahoo.com Sat Jul 21 10:13:00 2001 From: gl_jason at yahoo.com (Jason DeRose) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What needs to be done. Message-ID: <20010721171300.16435.qmail@web5201.mail.yahoo.com> Here's what I think needs to be done: 1) The protests all need to solidify. Pick the most visible place (probably the downtown/government center/business district of the city) and the most visible time (probably around noon). We only have two days left, and as long as the protests are uncertain, our movement is uncertain. 2) Our tactics need to solidify. As this all has been planned on short notice, we must take care that the protest not seem sloppy and uninformed. Our goal is to raise public awareness. A well written summary of the antisocial nature of the DMCA is needed, for distribution at rallies and posting on websites. If something suitable exists, we should use it; if not, someone needs to write it (I'm not an expert on the DMCA, but I'm certainly willing to help edit). It's useful for all the protesters to read such a summary too, so that there is some coherency in our message. Some things I think should be emphasized in the summary: the DMCA supposes that certain areas of human knowledge (for example, copy protection systems) are corporate property, and therefor that it should be illegal for the public to understand how these systems work, to share this information with others, or even to link to this information on a website; the DMCA was not designed for the protection of the public or of artists and scholars, but for the protection of corporate profit; the DMCA has destroyed rights in the digital realm that Americans have long held in the non-digital realm. The DMCA also supposes that the only way people will create is under the mythology of corporatism and profit. Many of the people on this list are Free Software enthusiast and know this is not true. I have the feeling that some similar things are happening in other areas, like music, movies, literature, etcetera (but I'm personally not familiar with them; does anyone know know much about what is going on in these areas?). I believe an account of these movements will help our argument. There seems to be some fracturing re whether the protest should focus on Adobe or the US Government and the DMCA, but remember, corporations like Adobe paid for the DMCA, and congress voted on it. And in this line, we need to know exactly what Adobe's involvement was in creating the DMCA, if they were involved. It would be good to have a list of all the corporations who financially supported the DMCA, and of the congress members, political parties, etcetera, who took this money. Again, I'm not an expert in this sort of research, but I'll help however I can. 3) We need to organize for long term resistance. As long as Sklyarov is in jail, regular protest should be held; moreover, if his arrest has sufficiently inflamed the community, as long as the DMCA exists, regular protest should be held. Because of the limited time for organization, this first protest may not have dramatic impact on the public--but there is always the following Monday, and the Monday after that... If nothing else, this protest will allow those concerned about this to meet others likewise concerned, to build a network for further protest. -Jason DeRose __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From declan at well.com Sat Jul 21 10:10:59 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Welcome to new subscribers; updates In-Reply-To: <20010721100009.N30157@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 10:00:09AM -0700 References: <20010720185320.K6900@zork.net> <20010721125142.D8827@cluebot.com> <20010721100009.N30157@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010721131059.F8827@cluebot.com> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 10:00:09AM -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote: > The average is actually still below 300 messages per day, but this > does make it an extremely high-traffic list. This weekend should push > the overall average below 200 messages per day. :-) Ah, you're right. I misremembered when I set up my procmail filter -- I have about 700 messages in 46 hours. Say 325-350 messages a day, counting duplicate messages and X-No-Archive: posts, and this will as you say slow down. -Declan From schoen at loyalty.org Sat Jul 21 10:16:41 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:59 2005 Subject: [mkc@mathdogs.com: Re: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release] Message-ID: <20010721101641.Q30157@zork.net> I accidentally rejected this message from the mailing list after it was flagged for review because the list software didn't have Mike Coleman's address right. I am from now on going to reject _all_ messages which are flagged for review this way, to avoid further confusion along these lines. If you post from an address which the list software doesn't know about, your message _will be returned to you_. If this happens and you don't understand why, or you want me to add an additional address, you can then tell me, and I'll add your address so that future messages will go through automatically. This policy may be more irritating in the short term, but it will make less work for me in the long term, help your messages go through right away once you've got the address stuff worked out, and continue to keep spam off the list. ----- Forwarded message from Mike Coleman ----- To: Seth David Schoen Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release From: Mike Coleman Date: 21 Jul 2001 02:39:44 -0500 Seth David Schoen writes: > Larry Blunk writes: > > > The publishers have chimed in with their opinion on Skylarov's > > arrest and the wonderful DMCA. I should warn you all -- it's not for the weak > > of stomach. > > > > http://www.publishers.org/home/press/index.htm > > I'd be eager to hear suggestions for an appropriate response. 1. Complain, courteously, directly to them at (212) 255-0200 (New York) and (202) 347-3375 (Washington, DC). 2. Complain, courteously, to their members, many of which we're probably members of (e.g., ACM, IEEE) or give lots of money to (various book publishers) or that are closely associated with various universities (which can hopefully be expected to appreciate gravity of this issue). http://www.publishers.org/home/abouta/members.htm On their web site they list "intellectual freedom" as one of their key issues. Their membership might be somewhat annoyed to see it being squashed. --Mike ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From paul at paultopia.net Sat Jul 21 10:16:16 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] online flyer fixed Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010721111446.00e703a0@mail.paultopia.net> date & syntactical errors corrected by wise people the world over. last time I try and write a flyer at 1 am in one draft http://www.paultopia.net/adobe/flyer.html -Paul -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From admin at seattle-chat.com Sat Jul 21 10:16:42 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] street permits In-Reply-To: <20010721123337.E7990@cluebot.com> Message-ID: Yes there are laws like this in different city's, however the Constitution says different, it says we have the RIGHT to peaceably assemble, it doesn't say we have to have a permit first. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Declan McCullagh Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 9:34 AM To: phr-2001@nightsong.com Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] street permits On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 08:46:54PM -0000, phr-2001@nightsong.com wrote: > Some people have been asking about whether they need street permits to > protest. IANAL, but from other protest experiences, and basic knowledge > of how the first amendment works, I believe the answer is: > > You do NOT need a street permit to protest in the US. Protesting > political issues on the sidewalk is protected free speech of the > highest order and you have the absolute right to do it with nobody's > permission, as long as you stay off the street, you don't use > amplified sound, you keep moving (if you stay in one spot, that's > loitering--that's the reason picketers walk back and forth), and you > don't block pedestrian traffic. My fuzzy recollection of DC law says that the above is incorrect, or at least incomplete. Laws vary by city, and your general advice is not specific enough and could get people in trouble if they blindly follow it. For instance, one article I wrote quoted Capitol Police as saying 20 people or more require a permit: http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,42676,00.html I once got a permit from U.S. Park Police for a 50-person gathering for a presidential campaign I worked on in 1992. -Declan _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From paul at paultopia.net Sat Jul 21 10:21:20 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] street permits In-Reply-To: <20010721123337.E7990@cluebot.com> References: <20010720204654.17461.qmail@brouhaha.com> <20010720204654.17461.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010721112030.00e77420@mail.paultopia.net> In DC, the local ACLU affiliate has (or at least did as of 1999) a manual for protestors etc. detailing all those things. Get one. -Paul At 10:33 AM 7/21/01, Declan McCullagh wrote: >For instance, one article I wrote quoted Capitol Police as saying >20 people or more require a permit: >http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,42676,00.html -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From kupek at ntplx.net Sat Jul 21 10:27:44 2001 From: kupek at ntplx.net (Chad Horton) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] street permits References: Message-ID: <00bd01c1120a$94f2af30$0101a8c0@gungnir> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Eakins" To: Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 1:16 PM Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] street permits > Yes there are laws like this in different city's, however the Constitution > says different, it says we have the RIGHT to peaceably assemble, it doesn't > say we have to have a permit first. > Actually, I would say this is similar to firearms. Yes, we have the right to bear arms, but the constitution doesn't say anything about the necessary permits. And having unlicenced firearms is definitely illegal. Better to keep things legal and save ourselves the trouble of a WTO-style mess. > -----Original Message----- > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Declan McCullagh > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 9:34 AM > To: phr-2001@nightsong.com > Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] street permits > > > On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 08:46:54PM -0000, phr-2001@nightsong.com wrote: > > Some people have been asking about whether they need street permits to > > protest. IANAL, but from other protest experiences, and basic knowledge > > of how the first amendment works, I believe the answer is: > > > > You do NOT need a street permit to protest in the US. Protesting > > political issues on the sidewalk is protected free speech of the > > highest order and you have the absolute right to do it with nobody's > > permission, as long as you stay off the street, you don't use > > amplified sound, you keep moving (if you stay in one spot, that's > > loitering--that's the reason picketers walk back and forth), and you > > don't block pedestrian traffic. > > My fuzzy recollection of DC law says that the above is incorrect, or > at least incomplete. Laws vary by city, and your general advice is not > specific enough and could get people in trouble if they blindly follow it. > > For instance, one article I wrote quoted Capitol Police as saying > 20 people or more require a permit: > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,42676,00.html > > I once got a permit from U.S. Park Police for a 50-person gathering > for a presidential campaign I worked on in 1992. > > -Declan ---- Chad "kupek" Horton | kupek@ntplx -dot- net ICQ:1994680 | AIM:KupekCH ~Free...The Dream Within~ From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Sat Jul 21 10:48:29 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:59 2005 Subject: language barriers / esperanto translations [Re: [free-sklyarov] GIFs for links to the campaign] In-Reply-To: <20010721084851.F30157@zork.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Seth David Schoen wrote: > Aaron Lehmann writes: > > On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 11:18:23AM -0500, Luis Guillermo RESTREPO RIVAS wrote: > > > Mi faris grafikon GIF por ligi al la kampanjo "liberon por Sklyarov": > > > En Angla: > > > http://LuisGuillermo.com/libero_en.gif > Kie vi trovis Esperantiston kiu volas liberigi Sklyarov? :-) "Mi, mi, mi" In any case, let's try and keep the language barriers on this list to a minimum, shall we? One thing is letting Russian speakers post in Russian if they don't speak English. But thus far, all the posts in Esperanto seem to be coming from perfectly competent English speakers. In the interest of minimizing communication overhead, please stick to English, eh? (If you speak Esperanto and not English, feel free to post in Esperanto, and someone will translate / Se vi parolas esperanton sed ne anglan, skribu en esperanton kaj iu tradukos.) For those curious, the above reproduced thread translates as: > > > I made a GIF graphic for linking to the "free Sklyarov campaign": > > > In English: > > > http://LuisGuillermo.com/libero_en.gif > Where are you going to find Esperantists who want to free Sklyarov? :-) "Me, me, me" -- -alexf From sethf at sethf.com Sat Jul 21 10:52:50 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday References: <20010721121135.B7990@cluebot.com> <20010721092749.H30157@zork.net> Message-ID: <3B59C172.C7FADE61@sethf.com> Seth David Schoen wrote: > Unfortunately, courts already seem to have a hard enough time > believing that electronic publication of free/open source software is > protected by the first amendment. While this is true, there's a very deep issue in the definition of "protected". The problem is better rendered that the courts have taken the view that the protection of (intellectual) *property rights* trumps the free-speech concerns here. There's a very revealing paragraph in the DeCSS decision concerning this: "Thus, even if one accepted defendants' argument that the anti-trafficking prohibition of the DMCA is content based because it regulates only code that "expresses" the programmer's "ideas" for circumventing access control measures, the question would remain whether such code--code designed to circumvent measures controlling access to private or legally protected data--nevertheless could be regulated on the basis of that content. For the reasons set forth in the text, the Court concludes that it may. Alternatively, even if such a categorical or definitional approach were eschewed, the Court would uphold the application of the DMCA now before it on the ground that this record establishes an imminent threat of danger flowing from ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ dissemination of DeCSS that far outweighs the need for unfettered ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ communication of that program. See Landmark Communications, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Inc. v. Virginia, 435 U.S. 829, 842-43 (1978)." -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From mickeym at mindspring.com Sat Jul 21 10:42:14 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (Mickey McGown) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Proposal to Free Dmitry, Freedom to Speech and make SW Innovations... References: <20010721125408.ELYM1907.fep07.tmt.tele.fi@default> <20010721091958.G30157@zork.net> Message-ID: <3B59BEF5.DB937ACF@mindspring.com> Seth David Schoen wrote: > Arto Laitinen writes: > > > > So, I make a proposal, how to solve this, other ongoing and future situations; someone found a way to decrypt or something like that, should first go to the > > inventor/owner of that system, tell them how fragile it is and then also tell them, how to improve the system. There should be a substantial financial price to the 'rabbit > > hole finder', not shoot or jail him. And thinking to protest against Adobe or thing like DMCA or makes me feel sick... No one should make the situation worse than it is, > > so no striking, please. > I share your concern about escalation, but I am very concerned now that someone is actually in jail. I regret that Dmitry is not even normally subject to the DMCA, this was an unexpected turn (to me, at least) of events in the opposing of this law. I have written three of my state (GA) representatives urging them to look into this case. The text is below: "Please look into the case of Dmitry Sklyarov, the Russian software programmer that was arrested in Las Vegas earlier this week. I am not pleased with the new (1998) copyright provision that criminalizes detailed computer knowledge, and it has now resulted in the jailing of someone because they dared to teach others. The use of the DMCA to prosecute software programmers in this way is clearly unconstitutional. Please help calm the situation by calling for his release." mickeym From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Sat Jul 21 10:58:54 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Translation into Russian In-Reply-To: <20010721082708.D30157@zork.net> Message-ID: Here's a rough equivalent (my Russian is rusty, so "rough" may be an understatement...) ESLI VY GOVORITE PO-RUSSKI: Ne smotrya na to, chto diskussiya na nashem spiske proishodit v osnovnom po angliyski, my vse ravno priglashaem vashe uchastiye. Russkie linki i mailing list nahodyatsya na: http://ezhe.ru/elcomsoft/ On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Seth David Schoen wrote: > Could a native Russian speaker please give me a translation of the > following paragraph? (Because ezhe.ru has a "free Dmitry Sklyarov" > mailing list in Russian, I want to make sure that Russian speakers > who find our list page are aware of it too.) I think I would prefer a > transliteration in Latin characters, rather than KOI-8. > > RUSSIAN SPEAKERS: You are welcome on our list, which is mainly in > English. Please see also > http://ezhe.ru/elcomsoft/ > with [or "for"] links and a mailing list in the Russian language. > > -- -alexf From schoen at loyalty.org Sat Jul 21 11:02:25 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:01:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Translation into Russian In-Reply-To: ; from alexf@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 10:58:54AM -0700 References: <20010721082708.D30157@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010721110225.U30157@zork.net> Alex Fabrikant writes: > Here's a rough equivalent (my Russian is rusty, so "rough" may be an > understatement...) > > ESLI VY GOVORITE PO-RUSSKI: Ne smotrya na to, chto diskussiya na nashem > spiske proishodit v osnovnom po angliyski, my vse ravno priglashaem vashe > uchastiye. Russkie linki i mailing list nahodyatsya na: HREF="http://ezhe.ru/elcomsoft/">http://ezhe.ru/elcomsoft/ So, other Russian speakers, how'd he do? How does this compare to the other translation? -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From crawford at goingware.com Sat Jul 21 11:06:19 2001 From: crawford at goingware.com (Michael D. Crawford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] legal precedent for code as free speech? Message-ID: <3B59C49B.564BB95E@goingware.com> I believe there have been a couple of court judgements which ruled that computer program source code is free speech. This has not yet been tested in the supreme court, and of course Judge Kaplan ruled that it wasn't in the DeCSS case. Can anyone tell me where I can find the specific legal opinions about this on the web? I'm going to write to my congressional representatives and want to cite these cases as background. I think it is helpful to give specific, legal information a congressperson can work with, as they're probably going to find a letter about freeing russian programmers kind of out of the blue. One of the cases is the Daniel Bernstein case on encryption export. I believe the appeals court found that source code was free speech, although I'm not sure they said that directly - I do know they found his free speech rights were infringed. I'm pretty sure there has been one other case, although I don't know if it has made it to the appellate level. But it's been a while and I don't remember which case this was. When I write the letters I will post one on my web page someone and send the URL here so you can use them to write your own representatives if you like. Mike -- Michael D. Crawford GoingWare Inc. - Expert Software Development and Consulting http://www.goingware.com crawford@goingware.com Tilting at Windmills for a Better Tomorrow. From franka at svpal.org Sat Jul 21 11:11:19 2001 From: franka at svpal.org (Frank Arnold) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:00 2005 Subject: [mkc@mathdogs.com: Re: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release] In-Reply-To: <20010721101641.Q30157@zork.net> References: <20010721101641.Q30157@zork.net> Message-ID: <01072111111900.02116@kira.pacbell.net> And while you are at it, please unsubscribe me from the list. I simply cannot handle so many messages although I fully support the cause. Thanks in advance. Frank Arnold On Saturday 21 July 2001 10:16, Seth David Schoen wrote: > I accidentally rejected this message from the mailing list after it > was flagged for review because the list software didn't have Mike > Coleman's address right. > > I am from now on going to reject _all_ messages which are flagged for > review this way, to avoid further confusion along these lines. If you > post from an address which the list software doesn't know about, your > message _will be returned to you_. If this happens and you don't > understand why, or you want me to add an additional address, you can > then tell me, and I'll add your address so that future messages will > go through automatically. > > This policy may be more irritating in the short term, but it will make > less work for me in the long term, help your messages go through right > away once you've got the address stuff worked out, and continue to > keep spam off the list. > > ----- Forwarded message from Mike Coleman ----- > > To: Seth David Schoen > Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues > a press release From: Mike Coleman > Date: 21 Jul 2001 02:39:44 -0500 > > Seth David Schoen writes: > > Larry Blunk writes: > > > The publishers have chimed in with their opinion on Skylarov's > > > arrest and the wonderful DMCA. I should warn you all -- it's not for > > > the weak of stomach. > > > > > > http://www.publishers.org/home/press/index.htm > > > > I'd be eager to hear suggestions for an appropriate response. > > 1. Complain, courteously, directly to them at (212) 255-0200 (New York) > and (202) 347-3375 (Washington, DC). > > 2. Complain, courteously, to their members, many of which we're probably > members of (e.g., ACM, IEEE) or give lots of money to (various book > publishers) or that are closely associated with various universities > (which can hopefully be expected to appreciate gravity of this issue). > > http://www.publishers.org/home/abouta/members.htm > > On their web site they list "intellectual freedom" as one of their key > issues. Their membership might be somewhat annoyed to see it being > squashed. > > --Mike > > ----- End forwarded message ----- From wild at eff.org Sat Jul 21 11:16:16 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] legal precedent for code as free speech? In-Reply-To: <3B59C49B.564BB95E@goingware.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010721111222.03d46d18@pop3.norton.antivirus> Court judgment which ruled that software code is protected speech-- Bernstein v. Dept. of Justice EFF was instrumental in getting the export restrictions on encryption lifted. In this precedent-setting case a mathematics student won the right to post his encryption code on the Internet. The case has now been remanded to the District Court; we are watching the government to ensure that they are fairly implementing standards for the export of encryption. EFF is currently in discussion with the government as to the final disposition of the case. (updated July 6, 2001) At issue: That computer code is protected speech. EFF's role: EFF is sponsoring this case. More info: http://www.eff.org/Legal/Cases/Bernstein_v_DoJ Sincerely, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 02:06 PM 7/21/2001 -0400, Michael D. Crawford wrote: >I believe there have been a couple of court judgements which ruled that >computer >program source code is free speech. This has not yet been tested in the >supreme >court, and of course Judge Kaplan ruled that it wasn't in the DeCSS case. > >Can anyone tell me where I can find the specific legal opinions about this on >the web? I'm going to write to my congressional representatives and want to >cite these cases as background. I think it is helpful to give specific, legal >information a congressperson can work with, as they're probably going to >find a >letter about freeing russian programmers kind of out of the blue. > >One of the cases is the Daniel Bernstein case on encryption export. I believe >the appeals court found that source code was free speech, although I'm not >sure >they said that directly - I do know they found his free speech rights were >infringed. > >I'm pretty sure there has been one other case, although I don't know if it has >made it to the appellate level. But it's been a while and I don't remember >which case this was. > >When I write the letters I will post one on my web page someone and send >the URL >here so you can use them to write your own representatives if you like. > >Mike >-- >Michael D. Crawford >GoingWare Inc. - Expert Software Development and Consulting >http://www.goingware.com >crawford@goingware.com > > Tilting at Windmills for a Better Tomorrow. > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From tom at lemuria.org Sat Jul 21 11:13:28 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Proposal to Free Dmitry, Freedom to Speech and make SW Innovations... In-Reply-To: <20010721091958.G30157@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 09:19:58AM -0700 References: <20010721125408.ELYM1907.fep07.tmt.tele.fi@default> <20010721091958.G30157@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010721201326.A6405@lemuria.org> Arto Laitinen writes: > Who would publish or invent anything if the payment could be > circumvented? nobody, of course. absolutely nobody. well, except for maybe plato, homer, galileo, da vinci, gutenberg or a couple million other authors, publishers and inventors who lived long before copyright was even created... -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From ilya at theIlya.com Sat Jul 21 11:19:05 2001 From: ilya at theIlya.com (Ilya Volynets) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Translation into Russian In-Reply-To: <20010721110225.U30157@zork.net> References: <20010721082708.D30157@zork.net> <20010721110225.U30157@zork.net> Message-ID: <0107211119050B.19305@gateway> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 His russian is fine, and paragraph bears approximately same meaning, though literal translation is very far (which is fine, he got the point trough :) On Saturday 21 July 2001 11:02, Seth David Schoen wrote: > Alex Fabrikant writes: > > Here's a rough equivalent (my Russian is rusty, so "rough" may be an > > understatement...) > > > > ESLI VY GOVORITE PO-RUSSKI: Ne smotrya na to, chto diskussiya na nashem > > spiske proishodit v osnovnom po angliyski, my vse ravno priglashaem vashe > > uchastiye. Russkie linki i mailing list nahodyatsya na: > HREF="http://ezhe.ru/elcomsoft/">http://ezhe.ru/elcomsoft/ > > So, other Russian speakers, how'd he do? How does this compare to the > other translation? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtZx5wACgkQtKh84cA8u2l7twCdHgLQBChkDwg+bbdPBipUuC61 rNgAn2zXx0Y9+WCSsXv7yT59RVQ3PaDz =H6S3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jstyre at jstyre.com Sat Jul 21 11:19:53 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] legal precedent for code as free speech? In-Reply-To: <3B59C49B.564BB95E@goingware.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010721110809.00bc83b0@earthlink.net> Actually, Judge Kaplan did say in the 2600 case that code is speech, but he found that restrictions on it are subject only to what is called intermediate scrutiny, rather than strict scrutiny, and that the functional aspects of DeCSS outweighed the speech aspects. The other case you're thinking of is Junger v. Daley, which is similar to Bernstein, but in a different Circuit. It's actually the only appellate opinion on point, since the Ninth Circuit Opinion in Bernstein was vacated after the gov't meaningfully changed the crypto export regs. (In theory, one isn't supposed to cite to a vacated Opinion, but in the 2600 case, everyone, including Judge Kaplan, did it anyway.) EFF has all of the various Bernstein decisions archived, probably Junger also, but if not, EPIC should have Junger. You might also wish to read the appellate briefs in the 2600 case, which EFF has, and my amicus brief in that case, since it focuses only on the single issue of code as speech. Obviously I wrote it as an advocate, not as a neutral, but it will help point you to what you want. http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/MPAA_DVD_cases/20010126_ny_progacad_amicus.html At 02:06 PM 07/21/2001 -0400, Michael D. Crawford wrote: >I believe there have been a couple of court judgements which ruled that >computer >program source code is free speech. This has not yet been tested in the >supreme >court, and of course Judge Kaplan ruled that it wasn't in the DeCSS case. > >Can anyone tell me where I can find the specific legal opinions about this on >the web? I'm going to write to my congressional representatives and want to >cite these cases as background. I think it is helpful to give specific, legal >information a congressperson can work with, as they're probably going to >find a >letter about freeing russian programmers kind of out of the blue. > >One of the cases is the Daniel Bernstein case on encryption export. I believe >the appeals court found that source code was free speech, although I'm not >sure >they said that directly - I do know they found his free speech rights were >infringed. > >I'm pretty sure there has been one other case, although I don't know if it has >made it to the appellate level. But it's been a while and I don't remember >which case this was. > >When I write the letters I will post one on my web page someone and send >the URL >here so you can use them to write your own representatives if you like. > >Mike >-- >Michael D. Crawford >GoingWare Inc. - Expert Software Development and Consulting >http://www.goingware.com >crawford@goingware.com > > Tilting at Windmills for a Better Tomorrow. > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Sat Jul 21 11:23:40 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Translation into Russian References: Message-ID: <004501c11212$48001200$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, Alex & Seth! > Here's a rough equivalent (my Russian is rusty, so "rough" may be an > understatement...) > > ESLI VY GOVORITE PO-RUSSKI: Ne smotrya na to, chto diskussiya na nashem > spiske proishodit v osnovnom po angliyski, my vse ravno priglashaem vashe > uchastiye. Russkie linki i mailing list nahodyatsya na: HREF="http://ezhe.ru/elcomsoft/">http://ezhe.ru/elcomsoft/ ...diskussija v nashem spiske proishodit v osnovnom na anglijskom, my vse ravno vas priglashaem. Russikie ssulki i spisok rassulki nahoditsya zdes': > > RUSSIAN SPEAKERS: You are welcome on our list, which is mainly in > > English. Please see also > > http://ezhe.ru/elcomsoft/ > > with [or "for"] links and a mailing list in the Russian language. ????????? ??-??????: ????? ?????????? ? ??? ?????? ????????, ??????? ? ???????? ?? ??????????. ??????????, ?????????? ????? http://ezhe.ru/elcomsoft/ ??? ?????? ? ?????? ???????? ?? ??????? ?????. Russko-govorjashie: Dobro pozalovat' v nash spisok rassulki, kotoruj v osnovnom na anglijskom. Pozalujsta, posmotrite takze: http://ezhe.ru/elcomsoft/ dlya ssulok i spiska rassulki na russkom jazuke. - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From schoen at loyalty.org Sat Jul 21 11:30:35 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] legal precedent for code as free speech? In-Reply-To: <3B59C49B.564BB95E@goingware.com>; from crawford@goingware.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 02:06:19PM -0400 References: <3B59C49B.564BB95E@goingware.com> Message-ID: <20010721113035.V30157@zork.net> Michael D. Crawford writes: > I believe there have been a couple of court judgements which ruled that computer > program source code is free speech. This has not yet been tested in the supreme > court, and of course Judge Kaplan ruled that it wasn't in the DeCSS case. Kaplan ruled that it _was_, or that it could be. Since ElcomSoft didn't publish source code, we need the stronger finding that all computer programs, whether in source or object form, have first amendment protection. Relevant cases in which source code is at issue are _Bernstein v. Dept. of Commerce_ and _Junger v. Daley_: http://www.eff.org/Legal/Cases/Bernstein_v_DoJ/ http://samsara.law.cwru.edu/comp_law/jvc Object code was at issue to some extent in _Universal v. Reimerdes_: http://eon.law.harvard.edu/openlaw/DVD/NY/ There is also a case filed by Phil Karn which was less successful. I feel lazy for not providing cites. If you write to Congress, please provide the cites, or ask me to be less lazy. Peter Junger, of _Junger v. Christopher_/_Junger v. Daley_ fame, has suggested that we don't necessarily need courts to say that computer software is "speech", as opposed to that computer software is information whose publication is protected by the first amendment. I think that this is an interesting point. The first amendment protects the freedom of speech and of the press, and it is rare to see an argument that information published in books must be expressive. Professor Junger mentioned on dvd-discuss that some information published in books is not expressive -- his example was a table of logarithms, which is produced by a mechanical process and is certainly factual information -- but it's hard to find a suggestion that this information does not have first amendment protection. I think Junger's point is a strong one. Computer programs, even in object form, are routinely expressive for human beings -- but even if they were not, the freedom of the press is still there for them. People from dvd-discuss, do I misrepresent Junger's point? -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From sween at modelm.org Sat Jul 21 11:46:00 2001 From: sween at modelm.org (sween) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] unsuscribe In-Reply-To: <200107211638.MAA06829@mail.inetw.net> Message-ID: you buy em books, send em to school... hahahahaa On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Torsten Howard wrote: > unsuscribe > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > -- --- -sween | M | http://www.modelm.org --- "force feedback computing since 1984." From sethf at sethf.com Sat Jul 21 11:39:04 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] legal precedent for code as free speech? References: <3B59C49B.564BB95E@goingware.com> <20010721113035.V30157@zork.net> Message-ID: <3B59CC48.A4549295@sethf.com> Seth David Schoen wrote: > Since ElcomSoft didn't publish source code, we need the stronger > finding that all computer programs, whether in source or object form, > have first amendment protection. This part of the DeCSS ruling is very on-point: "During the trial, Professor Touretzky of Carnegie Mellon University, as noted above, convincingly demonstrated that computer source and object code convey the same ideas as various other modes of expression, including spoken language descriptions of the algorithm embodied in the code. Tr. (Touretzky) at 1068-69; Ex. BBE, CCO, CCP, CCQ. He drew from this the conclusion that the preliminary injunction irrationally distinguished between the code, which was enjoined, and other modes of expression that convey the same idea, which were not, id., although of course he had no reason to be aware that the injunction drew that line only because that was the limit of the relief plaintiffs sought. With commendable candor, he readily admitted that the implication of his view that the spoken language and computer code versions were substantially similar was not necessarily that the preliminary injunction was too broad; rather, the logic of his position was that it was either too broad or too narrow. Id. at 1070-71. Once again, the question of a substantially broader injunction need not be addressed here, as plaintiffs have not sought broader relief." -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From bhodi at bigfoot.com Sat Jul 21 11:40:38 2001 From: bhodi at bigfoot.com (Golden_Eternity) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: Los Angeles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > To: "Jeff Strauss" , free-sklyarov@zork.net > From: hackhawk > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Los Angeles > > I've agreed to host an information web site and mailing list at > hackhawk.net if there's enough interest in the LA area. So far I've seen > one other person from LA. You would be the second, third including me. > Make that four. From declan at well.com Sat Jul 21 11:42:49 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010721110949.0085fbf0@pop.sprynet.com> References: <20010721121135.B7990@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010721144038.02073db0@mail.well.com> At 11:09 AM 7/21/01 -0700, David Honig wrote: >And the FBI identifies him as the copyright holder. > >What would they have done if a group[1] was listed after the (C)? >[1] registered corporation, anonymous coders, anonymous registered >corporation (?) etc. Your guess is as good as mine, and I'll defer to the criminal lawyers here, if there are any. My suspicion: In truly "criminal" enterprises, I suspect they'd go after the officers of the corporation. But in practice "trafficking" is a broad prohibition, and the Feds will arrest anyone involved who sets foot in the U.S. -Declan From rhetorical at home.com Sat Jul 21 11:54:24 2001 From: rhetorical at home.com (Brendan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: DMCA References: Message-ID: <001301c11216$8fa2b4b0$6401a8c0@tycho> Declan McCullagh writes: > That's because the DMCA only makes commercial circumvention a crime: > > (a) In general. -- Any person who violates section 1201 or 1202 > willfully and for purposes of commercial advantage or private > financial gain, (1) shall be fined not more than $500,000 or > imprisoned for not more than 5 years or both, for the first offense > > Non-commercial circumvention may, of course, be a civil offense, as 2600 > found out in the New York case brought by the movie studios. > > This state of affairs creates a mild problem (to go back to the recent > topic of discussion on cypherpunks) for those who strongly believe in > the First Amendment when applied to nonprofit or not-for-profit speech > but less so when it comes to speech that's part of a commercial > transaction. > > For instance, a guy ranting on Usenet, they say, should have free > speech rights, but the tobacco companies or pharmaceutical companies > can properly be muzzled. Let's hope Dmitry, a budding capitalist, > doesn't fall into that same commercial-speech-can-be-regulated > catchall. It appears to me that his 'violation' wasn't commercial. I assume he was paid to give the speech, but it isn't like he was selling copyright-violation on the street corners. Shouldn't Adobe be trying to file a (albeit rediculous) lawsuit against Elcomsoft? I fail to see where he violated the DMCA for personal gain while in the United States. Also, is there any possibility that we could switch over to a message board / forum environment, I for one would prefer it over a 'lot of e-mails format'. From pablos at kadrevis.com Sat Jul 21 11:57:36 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Write your US Congressman. (fwd) Message-ID: <2509224.995716656@[10.0.1.220]> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Saturday, July 21, 2001 10:05 AM -0400 From: Atom 'Smasher' To: "nicehair@boycottadobe.com" Subject: Write your US Congressman. the formats used on these sites is worth emulating.... they are kick-ass, no-brainers for the user. http://naralaction.ctsg.com/index.asp?step=2&item=534 http://www.cpinternet.com/~lakes/oca/fax.htm http://purefood.org/gealert/index.htm the easier it is to use, the more people will use it.... ...atom ----------------Void-If-Detached---------------- http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r Yamaha FS1R "If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose its freedom; and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money it values more, it will lose that, too." -- W. Somerset Maugham ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From petico at io.com Sat Jul 21 11:58:39 2001 From: petico at io.com (A.J. Peticolas) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: free-sklyarov digest, Vol 1 #62 - 11 msgs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Declan McCullagh wrote: > > This state of affairs creates a mild problem (to go back to the recent > > topic of discussion on cypherpunks) for those who strongly believe in > > the First Amendment when applied to nonprofit or not-for-profit speech > > but less so when it comes to speech that's part of a commercial > > transaction. I don't think the distinction (ideally) should regard the intent of the speech (whether it's commercial or not) but should really apply to who makes it -- an individual (even one doing commercial business) or a fictitious commercial entity. I'm no lawyer or historian but the legal rights of corporations I believe rest on the legal status of corporations which are legally "persons" and have all the legal and constitutional rights of persons including First Amendment rights. In my mind, corporations are NOT persons (they cannot think, suffer, or anything else as a person can) but legally they are. Certainly they need legal rights such as property and contract rights but I do not think they need human rights. Sometimes I think proposing a constitutional amendment to specify that "corporations are not persons under this constitution" and trying to pass it might be a good way to educate the public and focus the issues in several areas. Regards, Anne Peticolas Austin, Texas p.s. I vaguely remember from school that there may have been a Supreme Court decision establishing that corporations are persons long long ago. If this is the case and anyone can tell me the case and date, I'd be grateful. From sethf at sethf.com Sat Jul 21 12:10:09 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: DMCA References: <001301c11216$8fa2b4b0$6401a8c0@tycho> Message-ID: <3B59D391.32F8B4A7@sethf.com> Brendan wrote: > It appears to me that his 'violation' wasn't commercial. I assume > he was paid to give the speech, but it isn't like he was selling > copyright-violation on the street corners. Well, that could be a big part of the defense argument. But ... Read the affidavit at http://cryptome.org/usa-v-sklyarov.htm > Shouldn't Adobe be trying to file a (albeit rediculous) > lawsuit against Elcomsoft? They could. However, I suspect they view getting a criminal prosecution as a more effective strategy. It's certainly cheaper for them (assuming the boycott efforts don't change this equation). > I fail to see where he violated the DMCA for personal gain while > in the United States. I suspect it will be argued that his conference activities were promoting his product. Again, I don't mean to endorse that, but I see the argument. -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From krburger at burger-family.org Sat Jul 21 12:24:36 2001 From: krburger at burger-family.org (Kenneth Burger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] My protest day... Message-ID: <015701c1121a$c79699f0$0800a8c0@balthazar> Well, it wasn't actually a protest, but I went down to the McNamara Federal Building in Detroit and passed out about 100 flyers, and won at least a few people to the cause. It may not be much, but either way you look at it that's 100 more people that are more informed than they were before I got there. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010721/a0ba3eb8/attachment.html From declan at well.com Sat Jul 21 11:38:21 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] legal precedent for code as free speech? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010721111222.03d46d18@pop3.norton.antivirus>; from wild@eff.org on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 11:16:16AM -0700 References: <3B59C49B.564BB95E@goingware.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010721111222.03d46d18@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20010721143821.A10879@cluebot.com> Also see: "Encryption ruling from appeals court says code is speech" http://www.politechbot.com/p-01061.html But let's not confuse what courts have said about source code with what they've said (or haven't said) about object code. -Declan On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 11:16:16AM -0700, Will Doherty wrote: > Court judgment which ruled that software code is protected speech-- > > Bernstein v. Dept. of Justice > > EFF was instrumental in getting the export restrictions on encryption > lifted. In this precedent-setting case a > mathematics student won the right to post his encryption code on the > Internet. The case has now been > remanded to the District Court; we are watching the government to ensure > that they are fairly implementing > standards for the export of encryption. EFF is currently in discussion with > the government as to the final > disposition of the case. (updated July 6, 2001) > At issue: That computer code is protected speech. > EFF's role: EFF is sponsoring this case. > More info: http://www.eff.org/Legal/Cases/Bernstein_v_DoJ > > Sincerely, > > Will Doherty > Online Activist / Media Relations > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > Web http://www.eff.org > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > ------- > > > At 02:06 PM 7/21/2001 -0400, Michael D. Crawford wrote: > >I believe there have been a couple of court judgements which ruled that > >computer > >program source code is free speech. This has not yet been tested in the > >supreme > >court, and of course Judge Kaplan ruled that it wasn't in the DeCSS case. > > > >Can anyone tell me where I can find the specific legal opinions about this on > >the web? I'm going to write to my congressional representatives and want to > >cite these cases as background. I think it is helpful to give specific, legal > >information a congressperson can work with, as they're probably going to > >find a > >letter about freeing russian programmers kind of out of the blue. > > > >One of the cases is the Daniel Bernstein case on encryption export. I believe > >the appeals court found that source code was free speech, although I'm not > >sure > >they said that directly - I do know they found his free speech rights were > >infringed. > > > >I'm pretty sure there has been one other case, although I don't know if it has > >made it to the appellate level. But it's been a while and I don't remember > >which case this was. > > > >When I write the letters I will post one on my web page someone and send > >the URL > >here so you can use them to write your own representatives if you like. > > > >Mike > >-- > >Michael D. Crawford > >GoingWare Inc. - Expert Software Development and Consulting > >http://www.goingware.com > >crawford@goingware.com > > > > Tilting at Windmills for a Better Tomorrow. > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jays at panix.com Sat Jul 21 12:38:27 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: URGENT: factioning... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010721014707.00af8810@pop.coin.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, (8?> wrote: > I only see half a game tree here. What about these outcomes (noted by -) The tree in extenso, as I see it, is a mite big to fit on this list ;) > > > > > > > Consider the following scenarios: > > > 1) Adobe calls of the negotiations because there are protestors outside > > > + EFF can rightfully howl and bitch about this, and very effectively > > > milk it in the press. You don't have to understand the DMCA to > > > understand the freedom of the people peacably to assemble on public > > > property outside the Adobe offices, and if Adobe bails because of that > > > they're going to look very bad ("We will brook no criticism > > > whatsoever"). > > - Adobe can howl and bitch very effectively in the press how they > are trying but we aren't. Since none of the sheep understand the DMCA, they > view protesters as troublemakers, and are glad the government is protecting > them from these evil 'hackers'. Maybe now they can feel safe on AOL. Disagee. The press will do a good job on this one I think. > > > > > 2) Adobe meets with EFF, smiles, nods, and doesn't do a damn thing. > > > + EFF can milk this in the press too. The members of the mailing list > > > can holler to all available news forums about Adobe's cynical > > attempt to > > > manipulate the protestors, and if EFF does end up in meetings with > > > Adobe again -- which will only happen when they are in a positon of > > > greater strength than now, they can use Adobe's previous > > negotiations in > > > bad faith as a weapon against them. > > - Once again, adobe is only having this meeting so THEY can > spin/milk the press. EFF is going to hand them a hammer and let themselves > get beat in the head with it. I believe that adobe has already built up > plenty of bad faith, but that doesn't seem to matter, does it? Mistrust of > your adversary is hardly a weapon. Yes. I have read a report on this list that Adobe has already declared that they will discuss nothing of import at the Monday meeting. They certainly will not if there are no protests. But there will be protests. To repeat what many know: it is useful to have some of us inside talking while we are also outside protesting. EFF to Adobe: "No we don't know why that crazy is wearing a bear skin. But I do know one of them does CMYK code. If you keep Sklyarov in jail, there is no telling what these hackers might do." > > > > 3) Adobe makes some token gesture which doesn't actually do anything to > > > benefit Dmitry. > > > + The most likely scenario and the most difficult to defend against. > > > But that's all right, inevitably we're going to have to protest the > > > federal government to get Dmity freed. If the protests go forward > > > anyway, Adobe still gets their black eye and other U.S. companies get > > > a message. > > - I'm sure this will happen, no matter what the outcome of monday's > meeting is (although I will expand the scope; it won't benefit anyone). I > don't see how this will hurt adobe though, as they get the police action > they (and corp. america) want. I do agree though, that US companies will > get the message, TIME TO DONATE MORE MONEY TO PACS! Sure. But I do think that our case can be made to many people. > > > > 4) Adobe withdraws its complaint and calls for Dmitry's release and vows > > > non-cooperation with the FBI, making the case more difficult to > > > prosecute (remember, discovery hasn't taken place yet, and Adobe has the > > > resources to resist with some effectiveness, and the DoJ has > > > lower-hanging fruit to pick). > > > + The most unlikely scenario, and as much of a victory as could possibly > > > be expected from Adbobe, aside from a denunciation of the DMCA itself, > > > so unlikely that I really don't see any point in speculating on it. > > > > > - I would consider this the hell hath frozen scenario, so I won't > speculate further myself. > > > > -- > > > G. Branden Robinson | "To be is to do" -- Plato > > > >We mostly agree on the shape of the game tree. I think the probability of > >branch 4 is not tiny. > > > >oo--JS. > > I agree, tiny is much too large, infinitesimal is more appropriate. The kernel on this box is the Linux kernel. I use Emacs, scm, etc., every day. In 1990 what was your estimate that free software would be taking away market share from proprietary in every market segment? oo--JS. From saaib at ciberlinux.net Sat Jul 21 12:36:01 2001 From: saaib at ciberlinux.net (Urivan Saaib) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Any irc servers/channels? In-Reply-To: <20010721020008.4572.qmail@web5205.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200107211949.PAA12716@vs1.c-ber.net> Jason, > So are there any irc servers/channels running re > Free-Sklyarov? Just checked and i just opened one in Dalnet (irc.dal.net) and CiberNET (irc.c-ber.net) Hope it can be useful.. Regards, _______________________________________________________ Urivan Saaib Presidente CiberNET Mexico Email: saaib@c-ber.net From izel at sulam.com Sat Jul 21 12:42:05 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation Message-ID: I have read the arguments worded in babyspeak that are meant to get through to the unwashed masses. I read about why the DMCA is bad, why fair use is good, my home, my castle, my computer, my software, viva la Russian hacker, etc. I also read the criticisms. And I agree with them. There is too much intellectual baggage and too much stigma here for sheeple to handle. The mainstream media has relentlessly associated computer and security research with cracking, terrorism, espionage, kiddy porn, murder, piracy, rape, and possibly every other crime on this damn planet. The sheeple eat it up. You cannot educate such a gullible mass with such strong convictions in the span of a few days as to the realities of DMCA, the necessity of computer and security research, the importance of fair use rights, etc. Therefore, I am going to suggest an alternative line of argumentation. This line of argumentation draws a strong parallel between this case and the Ford / Firestone case. Here is the argument, in babyspeak. 1) Adobe makes a very expensive product. They represent that this product is very capable and very secure. 2) This is a fraud and this is a sham. The product is not at all secure. It is trash, it is garbage. It does not work as advertised. Adobe itself knows this. Even so, they continue to pretend otherwise, and they continue to sell their product for large amounts of money to customers who are not aware that they are being defrauded. 3) Dmitry Sklyarov, Russian PhD student, computer scientist, consumer advocate, a husband and a father of two children, has conducted research in Russia to prove that Adobe's product does not work as advertised. This kind of research is not only legal in Russia, but it is also legally required under Russian law, in order to protect consumer interests. 4) Dmitry visited the US, the land of Free Speech, in order to give a lecture about his research. 5) Adobe does not like Dmitry's research. So following Dmitry's lecture, Adobe had the FBI arrest Dmitry on made up charges - on the basis of an alleged crime that Dmitry did not commit. 6) This is unethical and this is illegal. Dmitry must be freed, Adobe must apologize for its unacceptable actions, and they must face legal consequences for fradulently misrepresenting the capabilities of their flawed products. The alleged crime that Dmitry did not commit, but with which he is being charged, as referred to in section 5, is selling Advanced ebook Processor, which Dmitry never sold, in Russia, the US, or anywhere else. Dmitry doesn't sell nor distribute any software, his employer does. Dmitry only writes software, and whatever software he wrote, he wrote in Russia, not in the US. I believe that all of these statements are 100% true. I also believe this argument will have the most positive impact on the sheeple, much moreso than DMCA / fair use arguments which will go right over their heads. People are very much familiar with the Ford / Firestone fiasco and they are familiar with how large corporations can and do defraud and endanger their customers in their pursuit for better profits. This should provide a point of unification and various rallying cries. "Remember Firestone!" etc. Comments, suggestions welcome. - izel From admin at seattle-chat.com Sat Jul 21 12:49:30 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Any irc servers/channels? In-Reply-To: <200107211949.PAA12716@vs1.c-ber.net> Message-ID: I just created a channel on the Undernet called #sklyarov and stuck a bot in it. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Urivan Saaib Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 12:36 PM To: gl_jason@yahoo.com Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Any irc servers/channels? Jason, > So are there any irc servers/channels running re > Free-Sklyarov? Just checked and i just opened one in Dalnet (irc.dal.net) and CiberNET (irc.c-ber.net) Hope it can be useful.. Regards, _______________________________________________________ Urivan Saaib Presidente CiberNET Mexico Email: saaib@c-ber.net _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From rabbi at quickie.net Sat Jul 21 12:57:06 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] My protest day... In-Reply-To: <015701c1121a$c79699f0$0800a8c0@balthazar> Message-ID: Excellent! On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Kenneth Burger wrote: > Well, it wasn't actually a protest, but I went down to the McNamara Federal Building in Detroit and passed out about 100 flyers, and won at least a few people to the cause. It may not be much, but either way you look at it that's 100 more people that are more informed than they were before I got there. > -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From jaed at jaedworks.com Sat Jul 21 02:11:29 2001 From: jaed at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Legal Question In-Reply-To: <01072016132505.18608@frankie> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: At 1:13 PM -0700 7/20/2001, Andrew Lawrence wrote: >rather than civil. MPAA vs Ramierez was a case of first impression where the >constitutionality of the law is under appeal and uncertain. Even after an >appeal court ruling, this will probably go to the US Supreme Court. > >Is it not possible to use the fact that this process may take years, probably >staying the prosecuting of Mr Sklyarov, to obtain bail or release for him. > >It appears to me, as a layman from another country, that holding someone, >especially a foreign citizen, in jail for years, so that they could possibly >be prosecuted goes against all principles of freedom and due process. It doesn't work that way, fortunately or unfortunately. Since the offending provisions of the DMCA have not (yet) been declared unconstitutional, they still apply, and people can be prosecuted under them as though there were no appeals on other cases in the system. Normally, someone targeted for prosecution will be prosecuted as usual, then (if convicted) may appeal, etc. - the timeline is the same whether there are other appeals pending or not. In other words, one doesn't have to wait for the process of another case to be completed before trial and other legal procedures can start. Only if these provisions of the DMCA are declared unconstitutional by a court which has jurisdiction meanwhile would it make a difference. -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed@jaedworks.com http://www.jaedworks.com From jaed at jaedworks.com Sat Jul 21 12:35:18 2001 From: jaed at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Proposal to Free Dmitry, Freedom to Speech and make SW Innovations... In-Reply-To: <20010721201326.A6405@lemuria.org> References: <20010721091958.G30157@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 09:19:58AM -0700 <20010721125408.ELYM1907.fep07.tmt.tele.fi@default> <20010721091958.G30157@zork.net> Message-ID: At 11:13 AM -0700 7/21/2001, Tom wrote: >Arto Laitinen writes: >> Who would publish or invent anything if the payment could be >> circumvented? > >nobody, of course. absolutely nobody. > >well, except for maybe plato, homer, galileo, da vinci, gutenberg or a >couple million other authors, publishers and inventors who lived long >before copyright was even created... To say nothing of the authors published by Baen Books, which has been publishing electronic books on the web for years. But not in weird proprietary formats designed to prevent such crimes as moving your book to your laptop, or your Palm Pilot, or changing the font. Just in plain old HTML. Unlike publishers skittering around fretting about "digital rights management", Baen is actually making money at this. You'd think publishers would observe and learn, rather than throwing millions of dollars down a rathole. -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed@jaedworks.com http://www.jaedworks.com From jays at panix.com Sat Jul 21 13:09:28 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] My protest day... In-Reply-To: <015701c1121a$c79699f0$0800a8c0@balthazar> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Kenneth Burger wrote: > Well, it wasn't actually a protest, but I went down to the McNamara > Federal Building in Detroit and passed out about 100 flyers, and won > at least a few people to the cause. It may not be much, but either > way you look at it that's 100 more people that are more informed than > they were before I got there. It is a protest. And it is something serious. oo--JS. From mh_sklyarov at cryptonomicon.net Sat Jul 21 13:13:01 2001 From: mh_sklyarov at cryptonomicon.net (Matthew S. Hamrick) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Section 3 from the FAQ: Activism Opportunities Message-ID: This from the FAQ hosted at http://www.cryptonomicon.net/. Please let me know if there are any errors... 3. Activism Opportunities 3.1. Are There Any Protests Planned? Yes, it appears that there are going to be protests in multiple cities across the US and perhaps some in other countries. The date for the protests is Monday, 23 July, 2001. The rest of this section deals with protests in specific cities. 3.2. ALBEQUERQUE (NM) EVENT CONTACT Contacts: freedmitry@jaraco.com Jason Coombs: 505.456.6655 Rob Franklin: 505.550.5437 3.3. BOSTON (MA) WHEN/WHERE Monday, July 23, 12:00 NOON downtown Boston, precise location to be determined at Friday night's dinner RIDESHARE / CARPOOL http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010723_boston_rideshare.html EVENT CONTACT C. Scott Ananian cananian@mit.edu work: 617 253-7710 cell: 617 233-1238 3.4. CHICAGO (IL) WHERE/WHEN 11AM, Location TBD. EVENT CONTACT Nate Riffe, inkblot@geocities.com 3.5. DENVER (CO) WHEN/WHERE Monday, July 23, 2001; other details to be determined at meeting: 7:30pm, Bookend Cafe, Boulder Bookstore, 1115 Pearl @ 11th St. RIDESHARE/CARPOOL EVENT CONTACT Sonja Tideman sonjat@cs.unm.edu 3.6. MINNEAPOLIS / ST. PAUL (MN) EVENT CONTACT Chris Moseng, mosengc@quest.net 3.7. MOSCOW (RUSSIA) WHEN/WHERE Details coming soon RIDESHARE / CARPOOL EVENT CONTACT Ilya V. Vasilyev hscool@netclub.ru +7 (095) 162-4767 3.8. NEW YORK CITY (NY) EVENT CONTACT Contact: Leonid Gorkin, lgorkin@excite.com, 212 794 1565 3.9. PORTLAND (OR) WHEN/WHERE Mon., July 23, 2001, 11am PT, at Terry Shrunck Plaza outside the Federal Building, downtown Portland. RIDESHARE / CARPOOL EVENT CONTACT Jeme A. Brelin jeme@brelin.net http://www.paultopia.net/adobe/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/portland-sklyarov-protest 3.10. RENO (NV) WHEN/WHERE Bruce Thompson Federal Building 400 S. Virginia Street Reno, NV 11:30-1:00 How To Get There By Public Transit: The number 1 bus goes from Meadowood Mall along Virginia St. to downtown, and back. You'll want to get off at Virginia and Liberty. If you're coming in on PRIDE don't get off at Meadowood Mall. Take it all the way to downtown EVENT CONTACT Sam Phillips sam@dasbistro.com 775-843-4114 3.11. SAN JOSE (CA) WHEN/WHERE RALLY AT "THE SNAKE": We will be meeting at 11am PT in downtown San Jose at the snake sculpture, "Quetzalcoatl", which is at the south end of Plaza de Cesar Chavez, at the corner of South Market St. and West San Carlos St. Plaza de Cesar Chavez is across San Carlos from the Hyatt St. Claire Hotel. From cam at ezhe.ru Sat Jul 21 13:25:47 2001 From: cam at ezhe.ru (Alexander Malioukov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Translation into Russian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1551644877.20010721232547@ezhe.ru> AF> uchastiye. Russkie linki i mailing list nahodyatsya na: HREF="http://ezhe.ru/elcomsoft/">http://ezhe.ru/elcomsoft/ Moi, You can send all new links, comments and any additional info related to the arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov to my address. If you have any particular questions or you need some specific information about Russia or in Russian, feel free to ask me questions. I'll give you an answer or forward your questions to people who have the answers. Our mail list sklyarov@ezhe.ru and forum http://sklyarov.ezhe.ru/forum/ are mostly for Russian speaking people, but be sure that English would be understood as well. Best regards, Alexander "CAM" Malioukov ezhe.ru / cam@ezhe.ru Turku, Finland From pablos at kadrevis.com Sat Jul 21 13:34:06 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Drive Adobe Nuts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2856609.995722445@[10.0.1.220]> Thanks for the idea. This is a creative way to fight back on par with emailing your free Acrobat Reader binary back to Adobe's management, ripping the printscreen button fof your keyboard and mailing it to Adobe, and pingflooding their servers. Most of these ideas have been discussed and we passed because antagonizing Adobe doesn't come across as a plausibly effective means of activism. Thanks anyway, pablos. --On Saturday, July 21, 2001 4:26 PM -0400 JMGalvin wrote: > Since Adobe seems to care so much about piracy of copyrighted material, > perhaps it would help Adobe if people reported piracy to them - LOTS & > LOTS & LOTS of reports. Hell they could report the White House, General > Motors, the CIA, the FBI, and more and more and more. > > Adobe has a page on their site for this. the address is: > http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/antipiracy/corpform.html > > Wouldn't it be nice if Hundred or thousands, or, better yet, tens of > thousands, of people "helped" Adobe by reporting piracy by reporting > every company and government agency ever created. And, since Adobe give > you a box to enter the location of the offender, people could just put > "Russia" Adobe would get the idea. > > Why don't you put something on your site to suggest that people "help" > Adobe in this way. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From paul at paultopia.net Sat Jul 21 13:33:26 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Section 3 from the FAQ: Activism Opportunities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010721143259.03853750@mail.paultopia.net> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/portland-sklyarov-protest no longer exists. Use http://mail.bitmine.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-portland -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From tom at lemuria.org Sat Jul 21 13:35:52 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: ; from izel@sulam.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 03:42:05PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010721223549.B7172@lemuria.org> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 03:42:05PM -0400, Izel Sulam wrote: > Comments, suggestions welcome. I could hardly agree more. the line-of-attack is: a) company sells crappy product and says it's great b) someone finds out the truth c) company tries to shoot the messenger d) consumers (that is YOU) have been frauded and company is trying to cover everything up. even average americans should be able to understand THAT. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From alansmitheee at hotmail.com Sat Jul 21 20:52:06 2001 From: alansmitheee at hotmail.com (Alan Smithee) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] re: Los Angeles Message-ID: I'm going to trust the EFF on this one since they seem to be closest to the situation and they have bright legal minds who know how to best set this up for higher court review, so if Monday's meeting turns into a stall for time I'm up for protests in LA quickly thereafter. I like the idea of protesting at the downtown LA library. KILL THE DMCA! www.copy-right.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From x at LuisGuillermo.com Sat Jul 21 14:07:24 2001 From: x at LuisGuillermo.com (Luis Guillermo RESTREPO RIVAS) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry and governor Ivan P. Sklyarov Message-ID: Any relation between Dmitry and governor Ivan P. Sklyarov in Nizhny Novgorod city ?: http://www.sklyarov.ru/ or just a name coincidence ? Just curious. Luis G. RESTREPO R. http://LuisGuillermo.com http://LuisGuillermo.com/libero_en.gif http://LuisGuillermo.com/libero_eo.gif http://LuisGuillermo.com/libero_es.gif ============================================== From awh at acm.org Sat Jul 21 14:00:36 2001 From: awh at acm.org (Tony Hursh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010721155741.0155a9f0@students.uiuc.edu> Izel Sulam wrote: >Here is the argument, in babyspeak. Izel, this is the best non-technical summary I've seen. Do you mind if people quote you? -- Causality violation: Universe dumped. Tony Hursh Department of Computer Science, http://www.cs.uiuc.edu Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Sat Jul 21 13:59:58 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Reporting on Moscow press conference tomorrow and on the demonstrationon Monday References: Message-ID: <01da01c11229$18a748e0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, Maria Eliseeva! How hard to hunt usefull messages with this traffic. :( If someone need Moscow, just e-mail us: hscool@netclub.ru > A friend of mine is a jouralism student at Boston University. She is in > Moscow right now (she is English/Russian/French/German speaking). I can > get in touch with her there and put her in touch with people coordinating > media events in Moscow. As a journalist, she would be perfect to do a May be, its she who was on Saturday press-conference in Moscow, that ended few hours ago. The girl, that took interview, promised to send us URL. - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From nick at zork.net Sat Jul 21 14:14:35 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] impressions Message-ID: <20010721141435.I8968@zork.net> Here is a list of some impressions I've had while trying to follow and help with this incicdent. Many people are mad at Adobe. Many people don't like the DMCA, but are specifically mad at Adobe for bringing the FBI in to act on it. Many people find great irony or revelation in the fact that the US, a country that boasts great freedom, arrested a citizen of Russia, which has long been painted by the US as a totalitarian state with few freedoms. This reminds me of when the head of the FreeS/wan project was grumbling about the US laws on cryptography at a LISA conference in Seattle a couple of years ago. He said "I can't actually write any code, and I can't discuss it with people outside the US over the phone, so I actually have to travel to countries that have freedom, like, oh, say, the PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA!" Lots of people are mad that the EFF chose to call off the protests. Some suspect foul play; others suspect diplomacy; still others suspect legal details got in the way. Regardless of what the EFF says or does, the protests and demonstrations will take place. They may not be protesting Adobe, but the protests will go on. Journalists would do well to contact the organizers of the local events. This incident has sparked a lot of international press, and given many people a kernel of a cause to rally around. Even if everything else goes wrong, this incident has given the press a good opportunity to discuss the civil liberties aspects of the DMCA. There have been many good strong gestures that have likely transmitted a message to the right people: Alan Cox resigning from ALS as a non-US programmer fearing for his freedom, a prospective Adobe employee turning down a job offer with a lengthy explanation of the Sklyarov case, etc. Finally, poor Dmitry is in a cell in a foreign country with family back home and little contact with the outside world. He technically poses a strong "flight risk" and is likely to be held without bail pending trial. This will all make him yet more susceptible to a dangerous precedent-setting plea-bargain. The DMCA is a Bad Law. This above all things has proven true. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From adobedemonstrator at hotmail.com Sat Jul 21 15:06:24 2001 From: adobedemonstrator at hotmail.com (Adobe Demonstrator) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ACTION: increase visibility by mailing news article to friends Message-ID: Yahoo News chooses "top stories" from how many times their users email and view their stories, among other things. So please take a few moments right now to send this Yahoo News article to at least three people you think might not already know. Use the "Email this story" link at the bottom of http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010720/tc/tech_hacker_arrest_dc_4.html >Supporters Rally Behind Arrested Russian Hacker >By Elinor Mills Abreu > >LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The arrest this week of a 26-year-old >Russian software programmer accused of violating U.S. copyright >law has sparked protests and pledges of support from a wide range >of free speech advocates, defense lawyers and consumer groups. [snip] >In addition to organizing rallies, Sklyarov's supporters have >created a Web site calling for a boycott of Adobe products >(http://www.boycottadobe.com) that features photos of Sklyarov That's a hot link, so the article is an ideal for sending. Remember to use the "Email this story" link at the end and please do not use scripts to send it because Yahoo auto-detects ballot-box stuffing. Free Sklyarov! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From rms at privacyfoundation.org Sat Jul 21 15:04:56 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe's questionable handling of the Sklyarov situation Message-ID: <00f701c11230$cee48ee0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Hello, It is very clear from a number of documents that Adobe made almost no effort to solve their dispute with Elcomsoft before calling in the FBI. According to the Elcomsoft Web site, they first heard from Adobe that the "Advanced Ebook Processor" software might violate copyright law in an unsigned email message that was sent on June 25, 2001. Adobe gave Elcomsoft five days to remove the software from their site. In this email message Adobe made no mention of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). In addition, according to Elcomsoft, Adobe refused to discuss the issue. On the following day, June 26th, Adobe approached the FBI about the Elcomsoft product according to the DOJ criminal complaint. I think the strategy that Adobe is pursuing here is highly unfair, because they are asking the US taxpayers to pay for a criminal prosecution without first making a reasonable effort to work out the issue directly with Elcomsoft. Also the timing begs the question of why the FBI decided to take on the case before Adobe's deadline to Elcomsoft had expired. In addition, why did the FBI take on a case in which there almost certainly no monetary damages to speak of? After all, the "Advanced Ebook Processor" had been on the market for only 6 days before they started their case. Richard M. Smith CTO, Privacy Foundation http://www.privacyfoundation.org References http://www.elcomsoft.com/AEBPR/adobe1.txt Adobe's email message: Elcomsoft's "Advanced eBook Processor" June 25, 2001 Adobe Systems Incorporated has determined that www.elcomsoft.com is engaged in other unauthorized activity relating to copyrighted materials published by Adobe Systems. ======================================================================= http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010707_complaint.html Criminal Complaint, U.S. v. Sklyarov (July 7, 2001) On June 26, 2001, I met with representatives of Adobe Systems, Incorporated (Adobe), located in San Jose, California. Kevin Nathanson, Group Products Manager, eBooks, Adobe, told me the following: ... From mbshafer at mbshafer.com Sat Jul 21 15:14:48 2001 From: mbshafer at mbshafer.com (Michael Shafer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] boycottadobe.com logo In-Reply-To: <20010720162256.A13606@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> References: <20010720162256.A13606@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <01072118144801.01204@iuxta.mbshafer.com> Hi All, On Friday 20 July 2001 07:22 pm, mike castleman wrote: > I just wanted to comment on the modified Adobe logo on the > boycottadobe.com website. I'm not clear what the artist is trying to > communicate by inserting the Communist hammer/sickle in the Adobe I have to agree with Mike here. I just checked into the web site to take a look and likewise can see that the hammer/sickle (nicely done! :_) might well confuse the issue. I'm concerned that such symbols hold powerful meanings for many people and while the cognoscenti may smirk at the inference the unknowing may quickly tune out and surf away. Consider the points Saul Alinsky makes in "Rules for Radicals" in the chapter titled "Communication." If the message is confusing it's unlikely communication will occur. The question then becomes to what point the web page? Is it to "Psyche up" those already involved or is it's purpose to communicate a clear, concerned message to those perhaps only newly aware and coming to see what the issue is about. I would offer any cause fairs better in communicating it message when the issues are presented clearly and the speaker seems reasonable and balanced. Regardless the point is made only to stimulate consideration of how we can be most effective. No flame wars please "Net" action was effective in helping to defeat the CDA in 96. (24 Hours of Democracy) Given all the good folks involved here (an properly pissed! :) I've no doubt a suitable and proper ending will come of this affair! Regards, Mike Shafer mbshafer@mbshafer.com From branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net Sat Jul 21 15:31:51 2001 From: branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net (Branden Robinson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: free-sklyarov digest, Vol 1 #62 - 11 msgs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010721173151.B15868@deadbeast.net> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 01:58:39PM -0500, A.J. Peticolas wrote: > p.s. I vaguely remember from school that there may have been a Supreme > Court decision establishing that corporations are persons long long ago. > If this is the case and anyone can tell me the case and date, I'd be > grateful. Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad, 118 U.S. 394 (1886) Probably the worst Supreme Court decision since _Dred Scott_... -- G. Branden Robinson | Debian GNU/Linux | // // // / / branden@deadbeast.net | EI 'AANIIGOO 'AHOOT'E http://www.deadbeast.net/~branden/ | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010721/574e97d0/attachment.pgp From izel at sulam.com Sat Jul 21 15:32:56 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation Message-ID: >Izel, this is the best non-technical summary I've seen. Do you mind if >people quote you? I would be honored if people quote me. Anybody is free to quote me as long as it is in context and properly attributed. But you're wrong when you say that this is the best summary you've seen. The fact is that this summary is not like the other summaries you've seen. It is different in one key aspect. Most people's arguments have concentrated largely on why the DMCA is bad law, why fair use rights are important, why computer and security research provides the necessary checks and balances against lousy software and bad corporate practices, etc. These are all very worthy arguments of course, but there is no practical way to simplify them to make them appealing to sheeple. The DMCA involves the very periphery of all human endeavors - cryptography, an area which is familiar to a mere fraction percent of the world population. It is impossible to get the masses excited or involved about something which exists at the periphery of all human endeavors. This is the case even if this periphery has far-ranging implications on all aspects of human civilization. This is sad, but this is the way the sheeple mind works. I tried another strategy based on a secret Jedi mind trick. In order to simplify an argument, one must hijack a meme that is already very familiar to the sheeple. One must choose a meme for which the sheeple's emotions are well known. One must then associate one's argument with this already familiar meme. This is what I did. Rather than framing this as a DMCA issue, I framed it as a consumer rights issue. I associated it with the Ford / Firestone meme. Big bad corporation makes faulty product, fradulently misrepresents said product, causes loss of life, limb, profits, intellectual property, whatever, through said fradulent misrepresentation. Also irreparable harm. (Sounds good in shareholder or customer class action lawsuits.) Ford was guilty of this, Adobe is guilty of this. Consumers are familiar with this meme and receptive to this meme. There is no way to spin this meme in any positive way. Once this meme is out in the wild, Adobe is dead and done for PR-wise. Comments, suggestions welcome. - izel P.S. Spread the meme. From pedro at tastytronic.net Sat Jul 21 15:33:23 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] -- OFFICIAL CHICAGO PROTEST INFORMATION -- Message-ID: <20010721173323.G364@tastytronic.net> This file is also available at: http://ufo.chicago.il.us/free-sklyarov/ The Chicago Free Sklyarov Protest: Pre-Protest Packet by Nate Riffe and Peter Peterson Contents: Background Information Demonstration What You Can Do As A Demonstrator Cancellation Contact BACKGROUND ---------- Dmitry Sklyarov was scheduled to present a paper and the 9th annual DefCon conference in Las Vegas on Monday, June 16. His paper and his presentation contained detailed explanations of flaws the encryption used by Adobe's eBook electronic book format. Immediately after his presentation, FBI agents arrested Sklyarov for violating the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998. This law makes the manufacture, distribution, and trafficking of an access control circumvention device illegal. Apparently under Adobe's and the FBI's overly broad interpretation, Sklyarov's presentation was considered a circumvention device. There have been prior instances of DMCA violations. Sklyarov's is unique in two ways. 1) This is the first arrest under the DMCA, which recently became a criminal law. Previous violations were handled as civil suits, whereas Sklyarov is charged with a felony. 2) Sklyarov is a foreign national (he is Russian), and the act he committed is not illegal is any other nation. His arrest under this law has become an international incident, with stories reported in worldwide news outlets such as the BBC. Our complaints about the DMCA are two-fold. First of all, it is a glaring breech of our first ammendment rights. Sklyarov, and a previous violator, Dr. Edward Felten of Princeton University, have respectively been arrested for and barred from presenting academic results at research conferences. Monied interests in various industries have taken these actions in fearful self-defense, to the detriment of science and technology. Secondly, the DMCA is materially harmful to society. Under the DMCA it is criminal to discover and openly discuss a flaw in a security system which is designed to control access to information. The net effect of this provision is that flaws in such systems are 'protected' from ever being fixed. The result is an accumulation of security systems which don't secure anything, due to their flaws, placing people at risk of such treacherous acts as identity theft and fraud. Our belief is that the proper way to handle a flaw in a security system is not to punish the discoverer, but to publicly announce the flaw, so that it is fixed as soon as possible. This opposing policy is often refered to as 'full disclosure'. Our priorities are as follows: 1) Free Dmitry Sklyarov (even if this requires a presidential pardon) 2) Repeal the DMCA (it is harmful to science and society) INFORMATION ----------- When: Monday, June 23, 2001 from 11 AM to 1 PM Central Time Where: At the loop post office between 100 and 200 S. Dearborn, which is across the street from the federal building. Where: At the public plaza across from the federal building downtown. The address is: Everett McKinley Dirksen Federal Building 219 South Dearborn Street Suite 905 Chicago, IL 60604 and we will be meeting near the big orange Calder statue at 11:00 on Monday morning. This is what the statue looks like: http://www.a1focus.com/arch/calder.htm From crawford at goingware.com Sat Jul 21 15:37:42 2001 From: crawford at goingware.com (Michael D. Crawford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] My Free Dmitry page Message-ID: <3B5A0436.2A7C06EF@goingware.com> I've started my own "Free Dmitry" page initially by archiving the letter that I posted here last night, the one I sent around to my friends and to Adobe. My page is at: http://goingware.com/freedmitry/ If you'd like to forward my letter to anyone, a plain-text version suitable for email is at: http://goingware.com/freedmitry/freedmitry.txt I'll be adding the letters I will write to my congresspeople once I write them. I need to make sure I get in the right citations for the opinions on code as free speech that I asked for, and will include relevant quotes from the opinions. More will be there as I get time for it. Regards, Mike Crawford -- Michael D. Crawford GoingWare Inc. - Expert Software Development and Consulting http://www.goingware.com crawford@goingware.com Tilting at Windmills for a Better Tomorrow. From rabbi at quickie.net Sat Jul 21 15:37:59 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] -- OFFICIAL CHICAGO PROTEST INFORMATION -- In-Reply-To: <20010721173323.G364@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Peter A. Peterson II wrote: > ANOTHER IMPORTANT NOTE: *** We are *NOT* protesting the FBI or the FBI's > action in this case. They are "doing their jobs" by following the DMCA > which *is* in effect. Protesters are specifically requested NOT to bring > anti-FBI signs or shirts to the protest. I'm not going to tell the Chicago folks how to run their protest, but let me state that I firmly believe that the FBI and DoJ are in the wrong in this case. Dmitry should never have been arrested. *If* this is an actual DMCA violation, it would be Elcomsoft that is to blame, not Dmitry. The FBI screwed up. Again. This is nothing new. From pedro at tastytronic.net Sat Jul 21 15:47:18 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] -- OFFICIAL CHICAGO PROTEST INFORMATION -- In-Reply-To: ; from rabbi@quickie.net on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 03:37:59PM -0700 References: <20010721173323.G364@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: <20010721174718.H364@tastytronic.net> Quoting Len Sassaman: > I'm not going to tell the Chicago folks how to run their protest, but let > me state that I firmly believe that the FBI and DoJ are in the wrong in > this case. Dmitry should never have been arrested. *If* this is an actual > DMCA violation, it would be Elcomsoft that is to blame, not Dmitry. I agree with you, substantially. However, our main concern is raising awareness and outrage regarding the arrest and the DMCA, not pissing off the sleeping bear. pedro -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- FBI has imprisioned a Russian software engineer for promoting and teaching the concept of "fair use". Read more: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From russotto at pond.com Sat Jul 21 16:04:23 2001 From: russotto at pond.com (Matthew T. Russotto) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another tactic? Message-ID: <200107212304.TAA18358@pond.com> Perhaps we should write to President Bush asking him to pre-emptively pardon Dmitry in the interests of international relations, justice, or whatever? From nick at zork.net Sat Jul 21 16:06:03 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another tactic? In-Reply-To: <200107212304.TAA18358@pond.com>; from russotto@pond.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 07:04:23PM -0400 References: <200107212304.TAA18358@pond.com> Message-ID: <20010721160603.O8968@zork.net> Begin Matthew T. Russotto quotation: > Perhaps we should write to President Bush asking him to > pre-emptively pardon Dmitry in the interests of international > relations, justice, or whatever? Or we could call on the magic justice fairy. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From izel at sulam.com Sat Jul 21 16:09:19 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another tactic? Message-ID: russotto@pond.com wrote: >Perhaps we should write to President Bush asking him to pre-emptively pardon >Dmitry in the interests of international relations, justice, or whatever? While we're at it, let's write to Condit and ask him to please bring out the dead body so we can stop looking for that damn woman already. I don't mean to come across as discouraging, but please be realistic regarding what people will and will not do. Thanks. - izel From nick at zork.net Sat Jul 21 16:08:50 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Any irc servers/channels? In-Reply-To: ; from admin@seattle-chat.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 12:49:30PM -0700 References: <200107211949.PAA12716@vs1.c-ber.net> Message-ID: <20010721160850.P8968@zork.net> Begin Charles Eakins quotation: > I just created a channel on the Undernet called #sklyarov and stuck > a bot in it. > > > Just checked and i just opened one in Dalnet (irc.dal.net) and > > CiberNET (irc.c-ber.net) Well, slashnet has the benefit of services, so it doesn't require bots. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From schoen at loyalty.org Sat Jul 21 16:10:16 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Drive Adobe Nuts In-Reply-To: <2856609.995722445@[10.0.1.220]>; from pablos@kadrevis.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 01:34:06PM -0700 References: <2856609.995722445@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <20010721161016.Z30157@zork.net> Pablos Kadrevis writes: > [Spurious reports of piracy idea] > > Thanks for the idea. This is a creative way to fight back on par with > emailing your free Acrobat Reader binary back to Adobe's management, > ripping the printscreen button fof your keyboard and mailing it to Adobe, > and pingflooding their servers. I actually think that second-to-last is very creative. :-) But seriously, folks, if you want Adobe to listen to you, being a sysadmin and telling them about your support for the boycott means so much more than being a random person who can type random information into a web form. The higher the real information content that flows to Adobe, the more attention they'll pay. Anyone can make noise, but only a few people can play a symphony -- because symphonies are such a small proportion of the set of possible sounds, and noise such an overwhelmingly large proportion. When you talk to Adobe, play a symphony. (Actually, Dmitry Sklyarov's situation makes me think of Haydn's _Missa in Angustiis_ Hob. XXII:11. However...) > Most of these ideas have been discussed and we passed because antagonizing > Adobe doesn't come across as a plausibly effective means of activism. Yes. It can hardly be said often enough: PLEASE DO NOT HARASS ADOBE ON THE TELEPHONE OR SEND THEM ANY OTHER KIND OF HARASSING OR THREATENING COMMUNICATION! (The same goes for the U.S. Marshal Service, the U.S. Attorney's Office, and the U.S. District Court.) Of course, it is OK to send criticism to Adobe and to the U.S. Attorney. Let your criticism be civil and relevant. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From rabbi at quickie.net Sat Jul 21 16:18:27 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release In-Reply-To: <20010720230248.P6900@zork.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Seth David Schoen wrote: > Larry Blunk writes: > > > The publishers have chimed in with their opinion on Skylarov's > > arrest and the wonderful DMCA. I should warn you all -- it's not for the weak > > of stomach. > > > > http://www.publishers.org/home/press/index.htm > > I'd be eager to hear suggestions for an appropriate response. Suggestion: We should start a letter-writing campaign to each of the AAP's members. Let them know what the AAP is saying on their behalf, and explain why they should not agree. http://www.publishers.org/home/abouta/members.htm -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From eric at mostly.harmless.org Sat Jul 21 16:28:54 2001 From: eric at mostly.harmless.org (Eric Rachner) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: Protest Sites (was: Differences Between Seattle and Chicago) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c1123c$ed8a8320$272aa8c0@mostly.harmless.org> (cc'ing national list since I feel this to be of general relevance.) To be clear, Adobe has not chosen to cooperate, they have only chosen to discuss the possibility of cooperation. And I reiterate that our goal is not to engage in conversation with Adobe, it is to free Dmitry and defeat the DMCA. As far as Adobe is concerned, the means to our ends are to persuade Adobe to drop their support of this case, and to demonstrate to other stakeholders in the Digital Rights Management industry that the public will not tolerate their invocation of the DMCA. Conversation alone will not persuade them, nor will it demonstrate anything to Adobe's peers in the DRM business. We must keep the proverbial big stick at hand when speaking to Adobe. Also, I think Chicago's decision to protest at an FBI facility is meaningless. Compare it to arguing for drug legalization with a police officer. Unless you can persuade the officer to quit her job in protest of her mandatory duties, you've wasted your time. So it is with the FBI in this case. (I do recognize that protesting versus a law enforcement agency is appropriate when they miscarry their duties, but if that applies in this case, it is a minor issue.) The best locations at which to protest are Adobe offices, and US Attorney's offices, since they control the case at this point. Considering that Adobe is willing to talk with the EFF, but the US Attorneys are not, we should plan to protest at a local US Attorney's office, and be prepared to take the protest to Adobe in the event that talks are unproductive. Productive means yielding a written committment from Adobe to drop support of the case and issue a press release in report of having done so. Anything short of that is just conversation, and should result in public protest of Adobe's role in this case. I reiterate that Adobe has no incentive to cooperate if we are not ready to criticize them publicly, boycott their products, undermine support of their technology, and donate our assistance to free alternatives. As to the US Attorney's Office, we must demnonstrate to their leadership and administration that they will be accountable for their actions with respect to the DMCA. - Eric -----Original Message----- From: seattle-sklyarov-admin@woozle.org [mailto:seattle-sklyarov-admin@woozle.org] On Behalf Of william henry frenchu Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 1:24 PM To: seattle-sklyarov@woozle.org Subject: [Seattle-Sklyarov] Differences Between Seattle and Chicago >From what I've read of the Chicago Protest's, there is one key >difference between what they plan to do and what we plan to do. Namely, they are protesting outside of an FBI building not an Adobe one. While it makes sense for their protest against the DMCA and to free Sklyarov continue at its current location regardless of Adobe's current position, does it really make all that much sense for our protest at Adobe to carry on even if they are in talks with the EFF? Currently Adobe is attempting to cooperate even if they are choosing to wait u ntil the last minute to do so. It seems to me that any protest we make should remain at Gasworks unless Adobe backs out of the talks. Otherwise we may as well just pick a random Post Office or some other government building and protest there instead. It makes about as much sense. Bill Frenchu _______________________________________________ seattle-sklyarov mailing list seattle-sklyarov@woozle.org http://woozle.org/mailman/listinfo/seattle-sklyarov From drumz at best.com Sat Jul 21 16:30:48 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] "Code is not Criminal" Bumper Sticker In-Reply-To: <20010721083019.E30157@zork.net> from Seth David Schoen at "Jul 21, 1 08:30:19 am" Message-ID: <200107212330.QAA18232@shell3.ba.best.com> Seth writes: > EFF does have a current "Coding is Not a Crime" bumper sticker which > is in print and advertises EFF. I'm sure sticker manufacturers would > be happy to make stickers to your specifications if you don't like > these. While I have no connection to iprint.com, I've been extremely happy with their service for this sort of thing. Their online design interface gets the job done, and they're fast, professional, and cheap: for one project I'm working on, I recently took delivery of 1000 stunningly vivid three-color (including background) 4x3 labels for just over $100. Not bad. Ethan From tim at epicgames.com Sat Jul 21 16:38:58 2001 From: tim at epicgames.com (Tim Sweeney) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest strategy & goals Message-ID: <006101c1123e$53b64110$f92b1bd8@timxp> Folks, The most important thing we can achieve in protests is to educate people about the DMCA and show that it's being used to suppress research and take away consumers' rights to access their data. Most people don't realize this yet. Corporate lawyers see the DMCA as a way of preventing piracy, and most politicians see it as a way of helping American publishing companies to succeed in the Internet age. They don't understand the chilling ramifications the law. Certainly the vast majority of Americans, and I bet even most Adobe employees and most FBI agents, would agree that the DMCA is an oppressive law that is being used to clearly violate personal and academic freedom -- if they fully understood the DMCA how it's being abused. However, "Free Sklyarov" isn't necessarily the right message to send here. As much as it pains me to say this, the mainstream media is likely to label this as "Whining Geeks Protest Arrest of Russian Hacker". Why do you think they chose him as a DCMA test-case rather than an American professor? It's all about mainstream media credibility. Therefore, the best message to send in any protests, in my opinion, is that the DMCA is being used to suppress academic research (the Felten case), and to deny consumers access to the data they've paid money for (the DeCSS cases, which prevented free DVD players from being developed for Linux; and the Sklyarov case, prosecuting the distribution of a tool enabling people to back up and modify their eBook's). Don't focus on Sklyarov, show everyone the big picture -- because the big picture is about academic freedom and consumers' rights to access their data. Freedom is a winnable cause. Let The Russian Hacker Go isn't a winnable cause on its own. Draw an analogy with Rosa Parks, who was also jailed for violating a law that suppressed her civil rights. Most of the headlines from the white-controlled media were along the lines of "Colored Woman Arrested for Refusing to Sit In Proper Section of Bus". How do you counter that? The successful protests weren't just about "Free Rosa", they were about ending the oppressive laws, and restoring everyone's freedom and civil rights. Adobe in this case is just the bus driver. They're not the root cause of the problem, nor are they the solution, but it's not in our interest to let Adobe save face. Let them stand with the RIAA as the guy who called the cops to arrest the lady who stood up for her rights. Protests should continue, with or without the EFF. How we present the protests and arguments is of tantamount importance. The publishers' groups and RIAA and incredibly media-savvy; they will spin this as "Geeks Protest Arrest of Russian Hacker For Helping Pirate eBooks" and they have enormous resources at their disposal. The only way to win this is to be just as media-savvy and counter that with: "DMCA Law, Supported By Corporate Interests, Suppresses Academic Freedom and Deprives Consumers of their Rights" -- not just "Free The Russian Hacker"! It has to be this way in order to win. Be idealistic in goals and motives, but pragmatic in strategy and tactics. -Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010721/678d51fe/attachment.html From karee at tstonramp.com Sat Jul 21 16:40:53 2001 From: karee at tstonramp.com (karee@tstonramp.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FWD: ZDNet: Printer Friendly - Arrest fuels Adobe copyright fight Message-ID: <200107212340.f6LNerZ03003@e39.zdnet.com> This message was forwarded to you from ZDNet (http://www.zdnet.com) by karee@tstonramp.com. Comment from sender: If it hasn't been posted already. The Article was mildly accurate, got better towards the end. To print : Click here or Select File and then Print from your browser's menu -------------------------------------------------------------- This story was printed from ZDNN , located at http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn . -------------------------------------------------------------- Arrest fuels Adobe copyright fight By Robert Lemos, ZDNN July 18, 2001 8:05 AM PT URL: Attention, software pirates, security researchers and those out to prove a point: Adobe Systems doesn't pull its punches. That's the lesson Dmitry Sklyarov, a Russian software programmer, learned Monday when FBI agents arrested him in Las Vegas for allegedly publishing a program that removes the security protections from Adobe eBook files. The bureau said such activity was a violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Sklyarov, who has been moved to San Jose, Calif., for trial, has become the latest casualty in a fight between software maker Adobe and Elcom, a 20-person company in Moscow. The jailed programmer is one of the authors of the Advanced eBook Processor, an application designed to strip various security measures from Adobe's eBook format, a function that Elcom claims is necessary to allow backups required by Russian law and that Adobe claims is tantamount to software piracy. "Adobe would like to make great money on the eBook market, but used an absolutely improper format for that: PDF," Vladamir Katalov, managing director of Elcom, said in an e-mail interview with CNET News.com. That's "really nice, but not secure. And by pushing it, they simply create a lot of trouble (for) publishers and authors." The jailed programmer Sklyarov had outlined problems with Adobe eBook and PDF security in a paper presented at the Def Con hacker convention. Elcom's claim that the company had benign intentions is dodging the issue, said Adobe spokeswoman Susan Altman Prescott. "The truth is that piracy is not a new issue, and copy protection of digital content is not a new issue," she said. "No software on the market is 100 percent secure against a determined hacker. We are not new to this business. We understand the nature of copyright violation and how to prevent it." Sklyarov's arrest comes three weeks after Adobe sent notices requesting Elcom stop selling the program and demanding that Verio, Elcom's Internet service provider, disconnect the company's Web site. The notice sent to Elcom on June 25 gave the company five days to remove the software from its site, but Verio removed the site the next day. While Elcom's Katalov said the company complied with Adobe's demands--selling fewer than 10 copies of its program before the software was pulled--its credit-card service was soon suspended as well. On June 26, according to the affidavit filed in the Northern District of California, Adobe requested an investigation by the FBI into Elcom's activities. After several demonstrations that the program did indeed remove the security of eBook files, FBI agent Daniel O'Connell filed his affidavit on July 11, a day before registration opened at Def Con. Adobe, for its part, would not confirm its role in the investigation. "The issue is not one of Adobe vs. a software hacker," said Susan Altman Prescott, a spokeswoman for the San Jose, Calif.-based software maker. "At issue is copyright protection for artists and publishers." While Prescott first portrayed Adobe as somewhat removed from the investigation, she later acknowledged that the company "brought it to the attention of the U.S. government." The FBI affidavit, however, shows that Adobe seems to be the only victim in the case and had at least three people working on gathering information about Elcom's software for investigators. Only the second case to be filed under the criminal provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, the strongest law to date supporting publishers of copyrighted content, the trial could be an important testing ground for the DMCA, said Jennifer Granick, clinical director of Stanford University's Center for Internet and Society. "It's the DeCSS case but criminal," she said, referring to the New York case that is trying Web sites that linked to code that could break the encryption surrounding DVD movies. "The fact that it is someone from outside the country highlights the problems with the law, because this is the U.S. enforcing its laws on another country." Granick believes the case highlights an important weakness in the DMCA. "Companies are allowed to take fair use away with our technology," she said, "but we are not allowed to take fair use back with technology." From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Sat Jul 21 16:47:06 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Press-conference in Moscow, 21 of June, 2001. Report. References: <01da01c11229$18a748e0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: <004e01c1123f$76f3e6e0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, All! First of all, excuse my bad English. As for now, we have no professional interpreters. AFAIK, no professional interpreter can work as much, as I had to do the last three days. And I'm just a Russian citizen. Its lucky for everyone, that I know a little bit English (because of computer study) -- we can communicate. There were 10 people on press-conference: the owners of the hall, four activists, three "free journalists" and two people, who said, that also can help in oranizing action. The place of the conference was symbolic -- "round table" in the bookstore. The majority of people get known about press-conference a day before or today morning, but postpone their deeds and came. It was hard to separate whats happening to press-conference and meeting of activists, because journalists came asyncronious. The owners of the hall also have their deeds, we meet with them at the beginning and at the end of the conference. American journalist interested in Adobe, but, when we declared that Adobe position is unknown until their negotiation with EFF, the topic was unjust arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov and DMCA law. One of the activists made suggestion, that Adobe is just playing "the second hand" of FBI, that is benifit from creation of DMCA precedent. He noted not good situation, that Adobe have found itself and expressed the opinion, that Adobe was specially selected, because Adobe problems aren't a problems of industry -- if protest actions will be against Microsoft or IBM, this will make a significant strike to the States themselves. DMCA law, factually, ban exploreing of protected programs, given to U.S. secret service to put impunity "holes", "trojans" and make "backdoors". If we permit Dmitry case to make precedent, the computer, you bought, is on FBI service, not your. Moreover, FBI will put into prison everyone, who will dare to publish the prove of "hole" presence, no matter of his citizenship or from what country he is. I told, that FBI words that Advanced eBook Processor copyright belongs to Dmitry mustn't be taken on trust. Willing people can download AEBPR from the site: www.elcomsoft.com/aebpr.html and assure, that copyright, both in documentation and in the program, belongs to ElcomSoft company. Only those programs were "distributed", more accurate -- were put on ElcomSoft web site, during Dmitry visit in US. This fact was first time published on the described press-conference in Moscow. Dmitry is pursued by criminal article, because he got "financial gain" from selling the program. Ah! And here FBI makes unpardonable inaccuracy. The profit from sales took ElcomSoft company, Dmitry is her ordinary employer, on salary. If FBI willn't discontinue the case, it for sure must convert it into civil, non-criminal. May be, even not against Dmitry, but against ElcomSoft. The company against company, whose activity the first company count illegal. Charges, that Dmitry imported in US ElcomSoft product with primary use to take protection off from protected products, is false twice. Programs, that were "imported" by Dmitry, were for the only aim -- demonstration that all, that is told about eBook "protection", differs from reality. He flyed to the conference only because of that -- to make computer security speach, not for taken protection from God know what books. Charge him with this one can no more, that detective story designer in murder. Dmitry commit no crime on the US territory neighter by US law, nor by Russian. In Russia he behave himself lawfully. One can arrest him in US no more, than arrest foregner in Moscow, who smoke marijuana sigarette in Amsterdam (where it is legal) a year before. Even USSR don't put into jail americans, that said bad words about communists in US -- that is illegal by Soviet laws. There are too many such inaccuracies and stiffnesses in the case against Dmitry. Factually, Americans must chose now -- to live in police state, when every toaster, bought on your money will execute secret FBI instructions, or help to free Dmitry. The most sad for us is that DMCA law begin its terror from citizens of other countries, becoming the problem of worldwide scale. About protest actions in Moscow. Being listening to EFF opinion, that advice to postpone street actions of protest until Adobe position will be clear on negotiating with EFF on Monday, 23 of June, we desided. We'll continue preparation the protest action in the capital of Russia, but hold it until EFF desision. - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From nick at zork.net Sat Jul 21 16:54:11 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FWD: ZDNet: Printer Friendly - Arrest fuels Adobe copyright fight In-Reply-To: <200107212340.f6LNerZ03003@e39.zdnet.com>; from karee@tstonramp.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 07:40:53PM -0400 References: <200107212340.f6LNerZ03003@e39.zdnet.com> Message-ID: <20010721165410.C25804@zork.net> Begin karee@tstonramp.com quotation: > Sklyarov, who has been moved to San Jose, Calif., for trial, has > become the latest casualty in a fight between software maker Adobe > and Elcom, a 20-person company in Moscow. Is this true? I still haven't heard difinitive word about where he actually is. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From pedro at tastytronic.net Sat Jul 21 17:24:38 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Changes in Chicago Documents and Posters Message-ID: <20010721192438.N364@tastytronic.net> Everyone, I worked over the poster and two documents that the Chicago group has put together and changed them for more clarity and honesty. Those of you using my poster may want to use the new design as the original said that he was being held for his presentation at DefCon, which is not the case -- the complaint is about AEBPR, not his presentation, and if you were using my documents for facts you should re-check them now. (Although I cannot guarantee perfection.) http://two-bit.northpark.edu/free-sklyarov/ Thanks all. Free Dmitry, pedro -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- FBI has imprisioned a Russian software engineer for promoting and teaching the concept of "fair use". Read more: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From izel at sulam.com Sat Jul 21 17:28:25 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest strategy & goals Message-ID: Tim Sweeney tim@epicgames.com wrote: >"DMCA Law, Supported By Corporate Interests, Suppresses Academic Freedom >and Deprives Consumers of their Rights" -- not just "Free The Russian >Hacker"! It has to be this way in order to win. > >Be idealistic in goals and motives, but pragmatic in strategy and = >tactics. I agree with you insofar as we need to state why we want to free Dmitry. I disagree with how you are trying to justify why we need to free Dmitry. We all know on this list that Dmitry is a security professional, also known as a hacker, and being a security professional aka hacker is an honorable profession. But the sheeple do not know this. They hear hacker, and they think "Swordfish" and other Hollywood garbage. In an ideal world, under ideal conditions, this could be a great time to protest the DMCA. (Yes, I know, in an ideal world, we wouldn't have the DMCA to begin with. But bear with me.) However, in the aftermath of a worm attack on whitehouse.gov allegedly by communist hackers from China, the public is negatively predisposed to all things communist and hackerlike. At this juncture, it's pretty disingenious to try and repeal a US law because it was used to convict a hacker from a country with a strong communist heritage. I believe we need to state that Dmitry needs to go free because he is a consumer advocate and a scientist who exposed flaws in Adobe's product, and exposed Adobe's fradulent claims about this flawed product. See my earlier post to this effect. This frames the issue in a way that avoids the dangerous hacker references. This may not be to everyone's liking, but at a time when the public is wary of all things communist and hackerlike due to the Chinese worm, we cannot expect to compel the favor of public opinion by having a communist hacker poster boy. Thanks. - izel From adobedemonstrator at hotmail.com Sat Jul 21 17:31:25 2001 From: adobedemonstrator at hotmail.com (Adobe Demonstrator) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] similar ACTION: increase visibility by mailing news article to friends Message-ID: Thanks to those who sent the message below 26 times so far, achieving # 6 in Yahoo News's "Most Emailed" category. It will take almost twice as many emails to make it to # 5, so let's please turn our attention to this identical story in the "Yahoo Finance" news section, which is attended to primarily by stock investors http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010720/n20379514_2.html Again, please select "Email this story" from the end of the page. Note: email send counts on Yahoo's "Most Emailed" stores reset after six hours, so please remember to send these stories to more people at least as often. Free Sklyarov! ____ original message _____ Yahoo News chooses "top stories" from how many times their users email and view their stories, among other things. So please take a few moments right now to send this Yahoo News article to at least three people you think might not already know. Use the "Email this story" link at the bottom of http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010720/tc/tech_hacker_arrest_dc_4.html >Supporters Rally Behind Arrested Russian Hacker >By Elinor Mills Abreu > >LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The arrest this week of a 26-year-old >Russian software programmer accused of violating U.S. copyright >law has sparked protests and pledges of support from a wide range >of free speech advocates, defense lawyers and consumer groups. [snip] >In addition to organizing rallies, Sklyarov's supporters have >created a Web site calling for a boycott of Adobe products >(http://www.boycottadobe.com) that features photos of Sklyarov That's a hot link, so the article is ideal for sending. Remember to use the "Email this story" link at the end and please do not use scripts to send it because Yahoo auto-detects ballot-box stuffing. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From wilhelm_quatsch at portalofevil.com Sat Jul 21 17:18:23 2001 From: wilhelm_quatsch at portalofevil.com (Cousin Willie) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation Message-ID: <200107212018.AA89719190@portalofevil.com> Previously, "Izel Sulam" wrote: >I have read the arguments worded in babyspeak that are meant >to get through to the unwashed masses. [...] >There is too much [...] here for sheeple to handle. [...] >The sheeple eat it up. [...] >Here is the argument, in babyspeak. Golly. I'll bet that those poor, dumb "sheeple" out there sure will appreciate having a Giant Superbrain like yourself come down and explain things to them in "babyspeak" so that they can understand, too. Better make sure all that condescension and contempt for the common man that you've got bottled up inside you doesn't leak out, though. It seems pretty acidic. How does it help the cause to have a bunch of "advocates" charge out half-cocked saying "you're too dumb to understand what's going on here, but let me provide this simple analogy", and then proceeding to mumble something about cereal boxes and secret decoders, or books in glass boxes, or Firestone tires? It seems that you're walking a fine line, risking that the public draws some undesirable conclusions: a) you have people thinking (justifiably) that you're insulting their intelligence; b) you have people who really are smart enough to understand these things (if you spend the right amount of time) thinking that you're trying to shine them on because you're using wacky analogies instead of addressing the issue head-on. I'd argue that the parallels between Adobe and Firestone are anything *but* clear. In one case, you have all kinds of dramatic TV pictures: millions of people lining up to exchange their tires, auto accidents with lots of broken glass and twisted steel, mothers crying on TV as they talk about their dead children. On the other hand, you have . . . what? People complaining that they want to print out their e-book, or how they'd really like to read it on their VAIO instead of their desktop machine? I'm afraid that the general public is just going to dismiss your "remember Firestone!" meme as hyperbole from a bunch of worked-up geeks. Besides, if you go for analogies instead of education, the NEXT time something like this comes up, you'll have to say "remember how LAST time bad crypto was like a defective tire? Well, THIS time, I want you to imagine that it's JUST LIKE . . . " -- W. _________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE portalofevil.com Email account at... http://www.evilemail.com PortalofEvil.com - Websites by the insane for the insane. _________________________________________________________ From izel at sulam.com Sat Jul 21 17:48:50 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation Message-ID: Cousin Willie wilhelm_quatsch@portalofevil.com wrote: >Golly. I'll bet that those poor, dumb "sheeple" out there sure will >appreciate having a Giant Superbrain like yourself come down and explain >things to them in "babyspeak" so that they can understand, too. I think being a sheep is an informed choice, not a genetic condition. I am not implying that sheeple are people with sub-100 IQ's. Sheeple are people who choose to unsuspectingly accept the messages delivered to them by the media, who choose to spend the least amount of time possible in digesting these messages, who choose to occupy themselves with entertaining pursuits most of the time. Most of them are very productive members of our society. They just choose to be completely unproductive in their spare time. None of these are inherently bad things. Sheeple are not bad people. But they are difficult to get through to. We must recognize this and we must streamline our messages in a way that makes them easy to digest. NBC, ABC, et al, have mastered this art in producing 30 second news soundbytes each and every day. With that said, if anyone wants to insult me, feel free to do so by private email. This list is to Free Dmitry, not to Insult Izel. Thanks, - izel From dlc at halibut.com Sat Jul 21 17:57:33 2001 From: dlc at halibut.com (David Carmean) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA flyer In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010721002246.03872a10@mail.paultopia.net>; from paul@paultopia.net on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 12:23:49AM -0600 References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010721002246.03872a10@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <20010721175733.I25362@halibut.com> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 12:23:49AM -0600, Paul Gowder wrote: > Draft of flyer about DMCA, Sklyarov in plain text below (see the .doc > format one in previous message, if it ever makes it past list message size > limits). [snip]q > Mr. Sklyarov then came to the U.S., to discuss his work at a convention in > Las Vegas. Adobe, aware he would be coming to the U.S., ordered the FBI to > arrest him. I would change this, to what I'm not sure, but we'll lose credibility by claiming that a private corporation can order a government agency take a particular action. People will dismiss us as paranoid conspiracy theorists. [snip] > He is now being held in an undisclosed location, awaiting arraignment. "As of this printing, he is being held...." And a date should be included somewhere. From jays at panix.com Sat Jul 21 18:07:45 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New York City Official Protest starts at Noon Monday 23 July 2001 Message-ID: in front of the New York Public Library at 41st Street and Fifth Avenue. Arrive at 11:30 for limbering up and raising of Chi. Official notice will go out tonight. oo--JS. From drumz at best.com Sat Jul 21 18:22:28 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Parallels Message-ID: <200107220122.SAA05836@shell3.ba.best.com> I've just sent the following message to the DRCTalk mailing list (see http://www.drcnet.org for more information), whose members concern themselves with issues related to drug policy reform. I'm resending it here in the hope that some of the parallels I've noticed strike a chord with libertarian types on this side of the fence as well. Ethan -- Hi all, While this isn't related to drug policy, I've found that a number of drug-policy activists also have an interest in electronic-freedom issues, and vice versa -- a link which I gently try to encourage when the opportunity presents itself, since I think it could become a powerful benefit to both parties if nurtured. And within the electronic-freedom community, the legal and political equivalent of an atomic bomb has just been dropped. Please read on if you have a few moments. Five days ago, a Russian programmer named Dmitry Sklyarov became the second party to be charged in the U.S. under the criminal provisions of the notorious Digital Millennium Copyright Act. At the urging of Adobe Systems Incorporated, Sklyarov was arrested by the FBI while in the U.S. to deliver an address at a convention. So far, it appears that the efforts of the Russian consulate and Sklyarov's family to gain access to Sklyarov have been unsuccessful. Sklyarov's "crime" was to develop and sell a piece of software that breaks what passes (quite poorly, it turns out) for encryption in the case of Adobe's PDF-based eBook software. In Russia, this is not a crime; in fact, some have argued that *Adobe* would be the party on shaky legal ground within Russia. (Adobe's encryption scheme has the effect of making it more difficult for consumers to exercise their fair-use rights to content they have purchased, which rather embarrassingly are more vigorously protected in Russia than in the U.S.) This situation is rapidly escalating, and it appears very likely to have widespread implications when all is said and done. The Electronic Frontier Foundation has secured a small victory in that Adobe will meet with the EFF on Monday, but Adobe and even the EFF are but two players in a larger drama involving the DMCA itself. Major protests are being planned for Monday; the most massive protest, which I plan to attend, will occur outside Adobe headquarters in San Jose. To my way of looking at things, there are significant parallels between what's going on with the DMCA and what's going on with the drug war. Both have now been effectively "exported" to other countries, and both expose the vast short-sightedness of a Congress which is completely out of control. Remember Rep. Mark Souter, who's currently engaged in frantic damage control after the drug provisions of the Higher Education Act went further than he had intended (or so he claims) by denying federal aid to 34,000 students -- despite the fact that so many of us tried to educate Souter himself when the HEA was being debated? Outcry against the DMCA was even louder while it was in Congress, and yet it passed the Senate 99-0. Electronic-freedom advocates *knew* this would happen, and let me tell you: they're pissed, and there are a lot of them. (In Wired News at , Declan McCullagh writes, "By Friday afternoon, grassroots organizers on the free-Sklyarov mailing list had already planned at least a dozen events in cities across the United States. And the groups had approximately as much momentum as a very angry rhinoceros who has finally glimpsed his target.") A couple relevant links: An excellent informational site and portal to most aspects of the controversy, including press coverage and activism resources. This site also contains a link to the free-sklyarov mailing list. (Warning: this list is *extremely* high-traffic at the moment, but also quite interesting in its discussion of the larger issues of grass-roots activism.) The Electronic Frontier Foundation is the best-known and most accomplished organization working to preserve freedom and privacy in the digital age. While the EFF cannot in good faith support the actions planned for Monday due to their impending negotiations with Adobe, it deserves the support of anyone with an interest in these issues. Ethan -- "The salvation of mankind lies only in making everything the concern of all." -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn From ruebella at linuxbabe.org Sat Jul 21 17:33:11 2001 From: ruebella at linuxbabe.org (ruebella) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: i am new to this list, as i just found out about this situation today. i live in las vegas and heard of a 'protest' of sorts happening in las vegas on monday. i am ready to show up and be there, i just can't find any information on dates and times and where. anyone have an idea? - ruebella From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Sat Jul 21 18:34:58 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Here Are Some New Boycott Adobe Logos In-Reply-To: <003f01c111a2$c0f0b860$0101a8c0@gungnir> Message-ID: Hi, http://www.math.niu.edu/~caj/adobe.html Tell me what you think, and feel free to use any of them or modify them to your heart's content (or to ask me to modify them to your heart's content, within reason.) As always, I seek new suggestions. -S From kyhwana at world-net.co.nz Sat Jul 21 18:41:02 2001 From: kyhwana at world-net.co.nz (Daniel Richards) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyright on AEBPR? Message-ID: <3B5AD7EE.30175.A6CA1D9@localhost> Does anyone have an older copy of AEBPR? The one that only does 10% of the ebook? According to the FBI affidavit the copyright holder of AEBPR is Dmitry. But in the version I downloaded from elcomsoft, it shows ElcomSoft is the copyright holder. "AEBPR 2.2 (c) ElcomSoft Co. Ltd." 8: d. A review of the opening screen on the Elcomsoft software purchased showed that a person named Dmitry Sklyarov is identified as being the copyright holder of the Elcomsoft program. Spano exhibited this opening screen to me and provided me with a copy of the screen. Spano also provided me a copy of the E-mail from Elcomsoft managing director Vladimir Katalov furnishing the unlocking key after the fee had been paid to Elcomsoft through the RegNow website. Daniel Richards - http://leopard.osoal.org.nz/~kyhwana/ PGP Pub key: http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/DanielRPubKey.asc Fingerprint: 416D 4027 D635 AF51 F2BF 60DF 4D94 F7A0 9893 2848 From gaolbait at home.com Sat Jul 21 18:45:46 2001 From: gaolbait at home.com (Oscar Wilde) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: "best we can hope for from Adobe" References: Message-ID: <001a01c11250$0a659e40$667ba8c0@palto1.sfba.home.com> << The best we can hope for from Adobe is a public apology and a promise not to pursue individuals under the DMCA in the future. >> But not the most we can ask for. Yes, even if Adobe withdraws its complaint, it's not in its power to dismiss the criminal charges. And there's little likelihood the Feds will return Dmitry's passport and let him leave the country. But Adobe could help get Dmitry out on bail. Why not ask Adobe to -- post bond, -- apply for H1-B visa for Dmitry (obviously they've had trouble finding enough competent cryptographers in the USA), -- fly over his wife and children and house them in the South Bay, and -- put Dmitry to work on improving Adobe eBook security while his case is working its way through the courts. Oscar From jeme at brelin.net Sat Jul 21 18:50:45 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov-portland] Re: [free-sklyarov] DMCA flyer In-Reply-To: <20010721175733.I25362@halibut.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, David Carmean wrote: > I would change this, to what I'm not sure, but we'll lose credibility by > claiming that a private corporation can order a government agency take > a particular action. People will dismiss us as paranoid conspiracy > theorists. Unfortunately, this is exactly what happened. And this will continue to happen as long as the DMCA stands... corporations will be able to quell the speech of individuals and use the force of criminal action at THEIR DISCRETION... not the discretion of law enforcement. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From bmcconac at bigpond.net.au Sun Jul 22 12:01:59 2001 From: bmcconac at bigpond.net.au (bruce) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] News Radio Australia (Aunty ABC here) Message-ID: <004001c112e0$c932abc0$4dc32dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au> Dear Aunty Congratulations Shaun Walker/ Alan Gaskel et al. (Yeah and I like the sports coverage too!) on a most informative and interesting news radio line-up each morning. I only get to listen between about 6.00 and 7.15 each morning so I do not necessarily hear everything. There is a fast breaking story that you have not yet covered (and I cannot find any reference on your website) that has enormous implications for all out futures. The future of e-books and academic research hangs in the balance at this very moment. I refer to the FBI case against Dmitry Sklyarov. On 16 July 2001, Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov was arrested by federal agents in Las Vegas, Nevada. His crime: pointing out major security flaws in Adobe PDF and eBook software http://www.boycottadobe.com/. (Most of these links can be obtained from the above site). Sklyarov was in Las Vegas to present a paper at a convention on eBooks Security: Theory and Practice. In this paper, he disclosed that Adobe's security features in their eBook and PDF software was woeful. Rather than thanking Dmitry Sklyarov and sending him and his company a healthy-sized check, Adobe instead decided to call in the FBI to prosecute him under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, or DMCA. The DMCA is a flawed piece of US federal legislation which attempts to bring US copyright law into the 21st century. In this it fails miserably. One of the provisions of the DMCA is that it makes circumventing a security protocol a felony. By building a program that shows how simple it is to defeat Adobe's pathetic attempts at eBook and PDF security, Sklyarov has therefore been charged with trafficking in a product designed to circumvent copyright protection measures. The New York times reported it thus: Mr. Sklyarov is one author of a software package released in June that breaks through electronic book encryption developed by Adobe Systems Inc. (news/quote) He faces up to five years in jail and a $500,000 fine. This is the first criminal case under the act involving electronic books, a small but competitive industry in which the players include Adobe, Microsoft (news/quote), Palm and Gemstar. Other high-profile cases involving the act, including one that involves decryption software for DVD's, have mostly been civil suits. Mr. Sklyarov, a tall, lanky graduate student with a lopsided smile, is currently completing his Ph.D. at Moscow State Technical University. His dissertation, which examines the security of electronic book software, was the basis of his presentation, entitled "E-Book Security: Theory and Practice." He is the father of two young children. Mr. Sklyarov is an employee of ElcomSoft, a small, Moscow-based company that has recently drawn the ire of Adobe for distributing a software package that circumvents Adobe eBook Reader software by converting encrypted books to unprotected files, which can then be distributed freely. As a researcher (I currently co-supervise a PhD student at the University of Queensland) it is vital that laws such as the DMCA are never enacted/enforced in Australia. Unprotection of files is not a crime and can have important legitimate uses. As a petroleum geologist/geochemist, I have used the ElcomSoft program written by Sklyarov et al. and I can provide the following comments. 1.The software works simply and efficiently. 2. The software enables researchers to quickly edit or update diagrams or text produced by adding their own data with appropriate acknowledgments to quickly produce new research results. It just makes everything quicker and simpler. For example, this years Australian Petroleum and Production Exploration Association Journal http://www.appea.com.au/ was issued with passwords to prevent access other than simply viewing all the published articles. One of the programs Sklyarov co-authored allows access to the Adobe pdf files so that new research and understanding can quickly be created. Ironically, as reported in the New York Times, both the CIA and FBI are also clients of Elcomsoft and use programs written by Sklyarov. "ElcomSoft is a 20-person company best known for its password recovery software for programs like Microsoft Word and Quicken, produced by Intuit. According to Aleksandr Katalov, president of ElcomSoft, the company's clients include many United States government agencies, including the F.B.I. and the Central Intelligence Agency". Some of the best coverage of this issue is provided by planet e-book. I would also like to refer you to the DCMA flyer because I think it covers the copyright issue quite accurately. Many more aspects of this situation have been canvassed on the web and there are many more links I can send you but the critical aspects at this time are to: 1. Let people know that this situation will impact everyone - even if they don't realise it! 2. Avoid the situation that where America goes Australia follows. If Australia is to have any hope of sustaining a research base we must not follow the DCMA path - despite the protestations of corporations and publishers who would relish the profits of a closed information market. 3. People like Dmitry Sklyarov should not be in jail, they should be paid lots of money to write more programs that aid researchers. Free Dmitry Sklyarov Protests are currently planned across America and Moscow for tomorrow.But explaining the issues to ordinary people are critical at this stage. How appropriate for News Radio. Right up your IT-techno-commercial-corporate-world wide alley. We just have to work a sports angle! Bruce McConachie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010722/4aa34e9d/attachment.htm From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Sat Jul 21 18:58:49 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] "Code is not Criminal" Bumper Sticker In-Reply-To: <000b01c111e4$b516a3a0$11050341@sparky2000> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Brett Barnes wrote: > A couple of years ago I saw a bumper sticker that read, "Code is not > criminal". Any idea where I and several hundred other people can get one? Check out ThinkGeek.com. They have a license plate frame that reads, "source code is free speech." They also have standard circular slash RIAA and MPAA stickers. Beware, though, the license plate frames are made for plate that have the renewal sticker on top, rather than the bottom. I have Illinois plates, and it wouldn't fit. -S From saint_sam at yahoo.com Sat Jul 21 19:04:36 2001 From: saint_sam at yahoo.com (Sam Gray) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Legal technicality question Message-ID: <20010722020436.22015.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> I saw some discussion of the finer points of the DMCA and what was and was not a crime, but I've been buried under all this traffic and it may take me a while to find it again. If anyone can answer this question, please reply directly to me as well as to the list: Is personal use of a circumvention device illegal under the DMCA, or is it merely "trafficking" that's now a crime? In other words, if I write my own software to rip the content from an eBook to exercise my fair use rights, can legal action be taken against me? Or is it just when I try to tell someone else about it? Again, please reply directly to me as well as to the list. Thanks! -Sam ===== "They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's some kind of federal program." - George W. Bush, St. Charles, Mo., Nov. 2, 2000 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From nick at zork.net Sat Jul 21 19:25:36 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Advogato article Message-ID: <20010721192536.B12229@zork.net> Thanks to MisterBad for starting this thread on advogato: http://advogato.com/article/309.html -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Sat Jul 21 19:29:38 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, y s wrote: > Looks like exact translation of Soviet "Pravda" editorial. It is not communism, or any other specific "ism," to want the ability to lend someone a book, or read it more than once, or read it aloud, without paying some company per use, or per page, or per minute. Are public libraries communist, because they let you read books for free? What about bookstores that let you browse without paying? Being a capitalist doesn't mean you must support every insane kind of extortion a company can think of. Most Americans surely prefer a free market, but most Americans would be aghast if a corporation decided to charge people royalties for breathing, or walking on sidewalks, or reading Alice in Wonderland to their children. -S From jeme at brelin.net Sat Jul 21 19:30:22 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Portland Postponed In-Reply-To: <20010721041511.C364@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: We, in Portland, have decided to hold our event on Wednesday, 11am-1pm at Terry Schrunk Plaza downtown at 1237 SW 3rd Avenue. The reason for the change in date is two-fold: Encouragement from the EFF to delay protest until resolution is reached with Adobe and the unfortunate simultaneous action of local activists regarding the sad slaying of a protester in Italy by police. Please adjust your calendars. And please consider moving your event to Wednesday. We are finding the opportunity to create MUCH better media with a little more time. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From sethf at sethf.com Sat Jul 21 19:32:13 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Legal technicality question References: <20010722020436.22015.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B5A3B2D.7801C65A@sethf.com> Sam Gray wrote: > Is personal use of a circumvention device illegal under the DMCA, or is it > merely "trafficking" that's now a crime? In other words, if I write my own > software to rip the content from an eBook to exercise my fair use rights, > can legal action be taken against me? Or is it just when I try to tell > someone else about it? DMCA violations are crimes when done "for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain". http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/1204.html If not done for commercial advantage or financial gain, they have civil liability. That is you can "merely" be sued into poverty, and then some, by a large corporation. Now take a look at http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/1201.html Circumvention itself is generally a violation, except for two exceptions granted by the Library Of Congress (I was partly responsible for one of them :-)), and some defenses. This is "1201(a)(1)" There is another type of violation, "trafficking", "1201(a)(2)" "No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that - (A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; [etc] This is the basis for the charges against Dmitri Sklyarov, with criminal offense per the above "1204" part of the law. Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer. Just intensely interested in the topic, for reasons obvious from the URL below :-) -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From izel at sulam.com Sat Jul 21 19:42:57 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Legal technicality question Message-ID: Sam Gray saint_sam@yahoo.com wrote: >In other words, if I write my own >software to rip the content from an eBook to exercise my fair use rights, >can legal action be taken against me? Or is it just when I try to tell >someone else about it? Not to be pedantic or anything, but if you never distribute any of your knowledge, any software, any illegal copies of any so-called intellectual property, etc, etc, who's going to know what you are doing in the sanctity of your own home? With that said, I believe that the criminal portions of DMCA apply specifically to trafficking of circumvention devices. So you would be safe from the Feds if you dabble in crypto in your spare time and get no one else involved. Someone more knowledgeable than myself will have to address the civil portions, whereby someone can sue you for damages, that sort of thing, but no jailtime would be involved. Standard disclaimer, IANAL. However, according to some guy who calls himself Cousin Willy (who posted earlier) I am allegedly a Giant Superbrain. Make of that what you will. Thanks, - izel From jssj2001 at hotmail.com Sat Jul 21 19:45:44 2001 From: jssj2001 at hotmail.com (y s) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: "best we can hope for from Adobe" Message-ID: As far as I know, Adobe would like to get Sklyarov work for them. Another question, whether it is possible. Too many issues involved - legal, and others. >From: "Oscar Wilde" >Reply-To: "Oscar Wilde" >To: >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: "best we can hope for from Adobe" >Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 18:45:46 -0700 > ><< The best we can hope for from Adobe is a public apology and a promise >not to pursue individuals under the DMCA in the future. >> > >But not the most we can ask for. > >Yes, even if Adobe withdraws its complaint, it's not in its power to >dismiss the criminal charges. And there's little likelihood the Feds will >return Dmitry's passport and let him leave the country. But Adobe could >help get Dmitry out on bail. Why not ask Adobe to >-- post bond, >-- apply for H1-B visa for Dmitry (obviously they've had trouble finding >enough competent cryptographers in the USA), >-- fly over his wife and children and house them in the South Bay, and >-- put Dmitry to work on improving Adobe eBook security while his case is >working its way through the courts. > >Oscar > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From declan at well.com Sat Jul 21 19:48:03 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Legal Question In-Reply-To: ; from jaed@jaedworks.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 02:11:29AM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010720125053.0204c7d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <01072016132505.18608@frankie> Message-ID: <20010721224803.A19559@cluebot.com> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 02:11:29AM -0700, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: > Only if these provisions of the DMCA are declared unconstitutional by a > court which has jurisdiction meanwhile would it make a difference. Right. And since the 2600 case and the Felten case are arising out of different federal circuits, they're (for now) irrelevant in terms of binding precedent. At the earliest -- and I welcome Jim to step in and amplify this -- 2600 could go to the Supremes in the fall term, with a decision by mid-2002. Though that would mean things moving mighty quickly, and it could take another year or two without raising eyebrows. -Declan From admin at seattle-chat.com Sat Jul 21 19:47:25 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Portland Postponed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Too late for that, we've already announced it, we March in Seattle. I already printed up flyers, I'm handing out everywhere tommorow. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Jeme A Brelin Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 7:30 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Portland Postponed We, in Portland, have decided to hold our event on Wednesday, 11am-1pm at Terry Schrunk Plaza downtown at 1237 SW 3rd Avenue. The reason for the change in date is two-fold: Encouragement from the EFF to delay protest until resolution is reached with Adobe and the unfortunate simultaneous action of local activists regarding the sad slaying of a protester in Italy by police. Please adjust your calendars. And please consider moving your event to Wednesday. We are finding the opportunity to create MUCH better media with a little more time. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From robertl1 at home.com Sat Jul 21 19:37:08 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest strategy & goals In-Reply-To: <006101c1123e$53b64110$f92b1bd8@timxp> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010721192459.03131160@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> At 07:38 PM 7/21/01 -0400, you wrote: >Folks, >Draw an analogy with Rosa Parks, who was also jailed for violating a law that suppressed her civil rights. Most of the headlines from the white-controlled media were along the lines of "Colored Woman Arrested for Refusing to Sit In Proper Section of Bus". How do you counter that? The successful protests weren't just about "Free Rosa", they were about ending the oppressive laws, and restoring everyone's freedom and civil rights. > >Adobe in this case is just the bus driver. They're not the root cause of the problem, Wrong. Adobe and the big corporations whose greed got the DMCA passed by 99-0 are the root cause of the problem. The DMCA is an important symptom but please let us not confuse cause and effect here. Adobe must suffer a massive PR hit from this action or large firms every where will be emboldened to get even more repressive legislation passed enabling them to criminalize all kinds of behaviour that they do not like. Once the DMCA is repealed or declared unconstitutional this battle will continue. It is a lifetime struggle. The DMCA is not the last piece of anti civil rights legislation that the younger people on this list will see. I am old enough to have lived thru the Rosa Parks era. I find the analogy worth exploring ... Jim Crow Laws DMCA Rosa Parks Dmitri Sklyarov Adobe & Other White Citizens Councils & Corporations Legislatures in Jim Crow states FBI Bull Conner & his dogs Feel free to play with this and improve it. We do need, as Izel is so ably pointing out, to communicate with a much wider audience in terms that they will understand. I hope I do not offend any of the members of the earlier civil rights movement with this analogy. I do realize that programmers are for the most part a much more fortunate elite than was Rosa Park's constituency. BTW, thanks for bring up Rosa Parks ... it never hurts to honor past heros. Bob La Quey From admin at seattle-chat.com Sat Jul 21 19:49:45 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: "best we can hope for from Adobe" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Where did you hear that adobe wants him to work for them? Sources? Before a rumor get's started! -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of y s Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 7:46 PM To: gaolbait@home.com; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Re: "best we can hope for from Adobe" As far as I know, Adobe would like to get Sklyarov work for them. Another question, whether it is possible. Too many issues involved - legal, and others. >From: "Oscar Wilde" >Reply-To: "Oscar Wilde" >To: >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: "best we can hope for from Adobe" >Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 18:45:46 -0700 > ><< The best we can hope for from Adobe is a public apology and a promise >not to pursue individuals under the DMCA in the future. >> > >But not the most we can ask for. > >Yes, even if Adobe withdraws its complaint, it's not in its power to >dismiss the criminal charges. And there's little likelihood the Feds will >return Dmitry's passport and let him leave the country. But Adobe could >help get Dmitry out on bail. Why not ask Adobe to >-- post bond, >-- apply for H1-B visa for Dmitry (obviously they've had trouble finding >enough competent cryptographers in the USA), >-- fly over his wife and children and house them in the South Bay, and >-- put Dmitry to work on improving Adobe eBook security while his case is >working its way through the courts. > >Oscar > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From awh at acm.org Sat Jul 21 19:45:17 2001 From: awh at acm.org (Tony Hursh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An interesting idea...... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010721213125.015576d0@students.uiuc.edu> What do you guys suppose would happen if some hypothetical person were to write something called, oh, Ultra Mega Elite eBook Encrypting Hacker Repellant that took text files and encrypted them with, say, rot-n rather than rot-13, (then you could advertise it as being 26 times more secure than Adobe's offering). Then let's suppose this hypothetical person posted a free trial version of this software with the proviso that if the user wasn't satisfied with the security after, oh, a year, the user would pay nothing but if the program proved satisfactory (in the sole opinion of the user) that the user would pay the author $3,000 US. Now let's further suppose that a whole lot of other hypothetical people downloaded UMEEEHR and used it to encrypt some content (real substantive content, e.g., academic papers, would be best) with the content owners offering to sell decryption keys to people who purchased the proper license. Now let's imagine that many, many thousands of programmers proceeded to create "circumvention devices" that cracked the UMEEEHR encryption scheme and offered these devices for sale on the web, and that the UMEEEHR author were somehow notified (perhaps anonymously) of the name, address, telephone number, etc. of the authors of the circumvention devices, and that the author of UMEEEHR then demanded that the FBI immediately arrest all these multiple thousands of people. What would happen? Any lawyers care to comment? From jeme at brelin.net Sat Jul 21 19:51:06 2001 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Section 3 from the FAQ: Activism Opportunities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Matthew S. Hamrick wrote: > 3.9. PORTLAND (OR) > > WHEN/WHERE > Mon., July 23, 2001, 11am PT, at Terry Shrunck Plaza outside the Federal > Building, downtown Portland. > RIDESHARE / CARPOOL > EVENT CONTACT > Jeme A. Brelin > jeme@brelin.net > > http://www.paultopia.net/adobe/ > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/portland-sklyarov-protest Wednesday, July 25, same time and place. Change the yahoo url to: Thanks. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme@brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From declan at well.com Sat Jul 21 19:59:08 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: <20010721223549.B7172@lemuria.org>; from tom@lemuria.org on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 10:35:52PM +0200 References: <20010721223549.B7172@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20010721225908.B19559@cluebot.com> A mild addition: What happens when a company has decent (or at least better than crappy) products, security broken, DMCA prosecution happens? That line of argument won't work then. Just a thought for the future, and a reminder that the current state of federal law is the real problem you folks have. -Declan On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 10:35:52PM +0200, Tom wrote: > On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 03:42:05PM -0400, Izel Sulam wrote: > > Comments, suggestions welcome. > > I could hardly agree more. the line-of-attack is: > > a) company sells crappy product and says it's great > b) someone finds out the truth > c) company tries to shoot the messenger > d) consumers (that is YOU) have been frauded and company is trying to > cover everything up. > > even average americans should be able to understand THAT. > > -- > -- http://web.lemuria.org > -- > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From drumz at best.com Sat Jul 21 20:00:54 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] And speaking of Genoa... Message-ID: <200107220300.UAA24613@shell3.ba.best.com> Jeme A Brelin writes: >The reason for the change in date is two-fold: Encouragement from the EFF >to delay protest until resolution is reached with Adobe and the >unfortunate simultaneous action of local activists regarding the sad >slaying of a protester in Italy by police. Speaking of the Genoa/G8 developments (which are the top story in many news markets today), I highly recommend the following: http://www.thenation.com/thebeat/ Ethan -- "I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for justice, no matter who it is for or against. I'm a human being first and foremost, and as such I am for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole." -- Malcolm X From declan at well.com Sat Jul 21 20:03:53 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest strategy & goals In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010721192459.03131160@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com>; from robertl1@home.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 07:37:08PM -0700 References: <006101c1123e$53b64110$f92b1bd8@timxp> <5.1.0.14.0.20010721192459.03131160@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <20010721230353.C19559@cluebot.com> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 07:37:08PM -0700, Bob La Quey wrote: > Wrong. Adobe and the big corporations whose greed got the DMCA passed by 99-0 > are the root cause of the problem. The DMCA is an important symptom but please > let us not confuse cause and effect here. Adobe must suffer a massive PR hit Could not another competing "problem" be the fact that congresscritters are such knaves that not one voted against the DMCA? Oh, no. I suppose it would be too much to hold them to such a high standard. -Declan From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Sat Jul 21 20:06:57 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: <20010721225908.B19559@cluebot.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote: > A mild addition: What happens when a company has decent (or at least > better than crappy) products, security broken, DMCA prosecution happens? Well, one might argue that such a situation is impossible by definition. Any company who would prosecute cryptanalysts is as likely to produce decent crypto software as flat-earthers are to put a man on the moon. JMHO, of course. But, anyone who perceives the exposure of security holes as heretical or malicious just doesn't "get" the general notions needed to write good crypto: open standards, large-scale and long-term collaborative analysis, and observance of Kerckhoffs's Criterion. > -Declan -S From jssj2001 at hotmail.com Sat Jul 21 20:09:36 2001 From: jssj2001 at hotmail.com (y s) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: "best we can hope for from Adobe" Message-ID: As I posted before (or, maybe it was a private response to somebody from this list?), I know some people from Adobe. And very decent guys, BTW, it would be unfair to punish them. They feel really troubled by all this, and they said they would love to get Dmitry work there. Another thing, how much influence they have, being just computer scientists. Definitely, they have some. >From: "Charles Eakins" >To: "y s" , , > >Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Re: "best we can hope for from Adobe" >Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 19:49:45 -0700 > >Where did you hear that adobe wants him to work for them? Sources? Before >a >rumor get's started! > >-----Original Message----- >From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net >[mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of y s >Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 7:46 PM >To: gaolbait@home.com; free-sklyarov@zork.net >Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Re: "best we can hope for from Adobe" > > >As far as I know, Adobe would like to get Sklyarov work for them. >Another question, whether it is possible. Too many issues involved - legal, >and others. > > > >From: "Oscar Wilde" > >Reply-To: "Oscar Wilde" > >To: > >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: "best we can hope for from Adobe" > >Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 18:45:46 -0700 > > > ><< The best we can hope for from Adobe is a public apology and a promise > >not to pursue individuals under the DMCA in the future. >> > > > >But not the most we can ask for. > > > >Yes, even if Adobe withdraws its complaint, it's not in its power to > >dismiss the criminal charges. And there's little likelihood the Feds will > >return Dmitry's passport and let him leave the country. But Adobe could > >help get Dmitry out on bail. Why not ask Adobe to > >-- post bond, > >-- apply for H1-B visa for Dmitry (obviously they've had trouble finding > >enough competent cryptographers in the USA), > >-- fly over his wife and children and house them in the South Bay, and > >-- put Dmitry to work on improving Adobe eBook security while his case is > >working its way through the courts. > > > >Oscar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From crawford at goingware.com Sat Jul 21 20:21:50 2001 From: crawford at goingware.com (Michael D. Crawford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Indymedia could be our friend Message-ID: <3B5A46CE.B8DB4A83@goingware.com> You should know that a great deal of the organization of and independent coverage of the protests at the G8 summit and other globalization conferences is due to the work of the Independent Media Center: http://www.indymedia.org/ You can publish news articles on indymedia's site here: http://www.indymedia.org/publish.php3 Note that what you publish must be actual news, not comments. Posts that don't get approved are not actually removed, just placed in a "hidden" section, I suppose like they got modded down. I'd like to suggest someone write up some news about the DMCA and Dmitry and submit it. I dropped in the Chicago protest packet but I don't think that's quite what they want to run, they want actual news articles. Note that you can also submit media - sound files, images, and video. So once the protests happen, submit pictures. Any speeches made, or newsworthy action caught on camera or tape, submit it. Mike -- Michael D. Crawford GoingWare Inc. - Expert Software Development and Consulting http://www.goingware.com crawford@goingware.com Tilting at Windmills for a Better Tomorrow. From crawford at goingware.com Sat Jul 21 20:31:46 2001 From: crawford at goingware.com (Michael D. Crawford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Indymedia could be our friend Message-ID: <3B5A4922.BBBC8EC8@goingware.com> > http://www.indymedia.org although it seems that indymedia has slashdotted itself as a result of the G8 protests. Not only was a protestor killed but many people have been injured, and lots of people are submitting articles and photos. The result of this is that their "newswire" page usually shows up blank, and trying to use the search form to find the article I submitted results in a "connection failed" message. Maybe it would be more effective to post stuff on Indymedia later. Mike -- Michael D. Crawford GoingWare Inc. - Expert Software Development and Consulting http://www.goingware.com crawford@goingware.com Tilting at Windmills for a Better Tomorrow. From izel at sulam.com Sat Jul 21 20:31:50 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation Message-ID: Declan McCullagh declan@well.com wrote: >A mild addition: What happens when a company has decent (or at least >better than crappy) products, security broken, DMCA prosecution happens? DMCA prosection will not happen, because the security will be broken overseas, and whoever did it will know better than to ever set foot in this hellhole we call the USA. And all previously US-based security conferences will move to Canada within the next 12 months, and our most valuable CS professors will immigrate to Canada, etc, etc. But seriously. Declan, you seem to be operating under the assumption that this case is our only chance of getting the DMCA repealed. This is clearly not true on its face. In fact, there are a bunch of reasons why using this case to try and get the DMCA repealed would be unwise. 1) Dmitry is not even an American citizen. He does not belong here. He belongs in his home, with his family. 2) The DMCA is our problem. It is cruel for us to keep a poor foreigner in jail while we go through the slow, repetitive and redundant motions of our fucked up legal system. 3) This case is fraught with dangerous undertones of communism and hackerlike activity, which scare the sheeple and can sway public opinion. The best kind of case that would get the DMCA repealed would be a clear Free Speech or academia case, such as the Felten case. The public and the courts have much more respect for American professors than (those whom they perceive to be) dangerous communist hackers. 4) I already posted about this, but whitehouse.gov was attacked by a Chinese communist worm just a few days ago. Neither the public nor the courts will have much affection for (what they perceive to be) Yet Another Communist Hacker. 5) Due to these reasons, I put it to you that our number one priority should be to Free Dmitry. Also to ruin Adobe's public image beyond repair. Not to get the DMCA repealed. Not right now. We must pick our battles wisely, and this battleground is not one on which we can defeat the DMCA. I rest my case. Comments, suggestions welcome. - izel From adobedemonstrator at hotmail.com Sat Jul 21 20:31:30 2001 From: adobedemonstrator at hotmail.com (Adobe Demonstrator) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] www.boycottadobe.org down Message-ID: $ traceroute www.boycottadobe.org traceroute to www.boycottadobe.org (216.240.45.91), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets ... 12 inreach-gw.customer.ALTER.NET (157.130.193.202) 9.117 ms 8.432 ms 8.219 ms 13 209.209.13.27 (209.209.13.27) 8.545 ms 8.387 ms 8.634 ms 14 hungry.idiom.com (216.240.32.17) 11.705 ms 10.380 ms 9.199 ms 15 216.240.36.134 (216.240.36.134) 22.265 ms 18.042 ms 14.420 ms 16 * * * 17 * * * 18 * * * 19 * * * 20 * *^C Any mirrors ready? Free Sklyarov! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ausage at ausage.com Sat Jul 21 20:30:50 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] boycottadobe.com logo In-Reply-To: <01072118144801.01204@iuxta.mbshafer.com> References: <20010720162256.A13606@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> <01072118144801.01204@iuxta.mbshafer.com> Message-ID: <01072123305002.03179@frankie> On July 21, 2001 06:14 pm, Michael Shafer wrote: > Hi All, > > On Friday 20 July 2001 07:22 pm, mike castleman wrote: > > I just wanted to comment on the modified Adobe logo on the > > boycottadobe.com website. I'm not clear what the artist is trying to > > communicate by inserting the Communist hammer/sickle in the Adobe > > I have to agree with Mike here. I just checked into the web site to > take a look and likewise can see that the hammer/sickle (nicely done! > :_) might well confuse the issue. I'm concerned that such symbols hold > powerful meanings for many people and while the cognoscenti may smirk > at the inference the unknowing may quickly tune out and surf away. I haven't seen it said here so I'll say it. I like the logo. It certainly likens Adobe to pre-prestoika (sp?) Russia, I believe that is very appropriate here. From drumz at best.com Sat Jul 21 20:53:45 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Indymedia could be our friend In-Reply-To: <3B5A4922.BBBC8EC8@goingware.com> from "Michael D. Crawford" at "Jul 21, 1 11:31:46 pm" Message-ID: <200107220353.UAA02055@shell3.ba.best.com> Michael D. Crawford writes: > > http://www.indymedia.org > > although it seems that indymedia has slashdotted itself as a result of the G8 > protests. Not only was a protestor killed but many people have been injured, > and lots of people are submitting articles and photos. Is it just me, or has the *EFF* gotten itself slashdotted? I haven't been able to get through to their site for a couple hours now. Ethan From cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu Sat Jul 21 21:11:14 2001 From: cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] UPDATE ON BOSTON PROTEST In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The latest information on the Boston protest/rally on Monday is up at http://freesklyarov.org/boston To keep up to date, be sure to join the dmitry-boston mailing list; details are on the page above. --s EZLN Khaddafi planning chemical agent Waco, Texas Echelon nuclear global action network Justice SSBN 731 IDEA Serbian Attache Peking ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian ) -- "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970, minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4. -- [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/] #!/usr/bin/perl -w # 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz # MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout # arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order $_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5; $_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d= unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d >>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9 ,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t ^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271)) [$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval From drumz at best.com Sat Jul 21 21:12:56 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest strategy & goals In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010721192459.03131160@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> from Bob La Quey at "Jul 21, 1 07:37:08 pm" Message-ID: <200107220412.VAA05199@shell3.ba.best.com> Bob La Quey >I am old enough to have lived thru the Rosa Parks era. I find the >analogy worth exploring ... There can be no doubt that Rosa Parks remains an inspiration to many of us who believe that unjust laws must be exposed -- even if that means violating them. For the record, I do believe it applies here. I would only suggest that, precisely because Parks's story *is* so symbolic to so many people, it's important when employing it to consider one's audience. In the second episode of the sadly-missed _Sports Night_ (which some may remember as Aaron Sorkin's project just prior to _The West Wing_), an anchor uses the Parks analogy when called on the carpet for expressing public support for the legalization of marijuana. His African-American boss, who supports the anchor, nevertheless delivers the following warning: "No rich young white guy has ever gotten anywhere with me comparing himself to Rosa Parks." I don't really agree with that stance; I think the argument transcends the arguer and don't believe in shooting the messenger. It's just something to think about when making historical analogies, whether to WWII-era Germany or segregation-era Montgomery. Ethan From saint_sam at yahoo.com Sat Jul 21 21:26:11 2001 From: saint_sam at yahoo.com (Sam Gray) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Legal technicality question Message-ID: <20010722042611.56485.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> > Not to be pedantic or anything, but if you never distribute any of your > knowledge, any software, any illegal copies of any so-called intellectual > property, etc, etc, who's going to know what you are doing in the > sanctity of your own home? The First Amendment has already had some holes shot in it. What makes you think the Fourth isn't next -- or indeed, hasn't already gone? I've already drawn attention to myself by spending more on computers than cars in the past two years. I'm on the NAUGHTY LIST, man! It's just like Santa Claus! (Tongue firmly in cheek here) > Standard disclaimer, IANAL. However, according to some guy who calls > himself Cousin Willy (who posted earlier) I am allegedly a Giant > Superbrain. Make of that what you will. Hey, we need all the Giant Superbrains we can get. Seriously, thanks for helping clarify this. ===== "They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's some kind of federal program." - George W. Bush, St. Charles, Mo., Nov. 2, 2000 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From andrea at gravitt.org Sat Jul 21 21:41:19 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Atlanta organizational meeting Sunday 4pm Message-ID: I, with some help from locals and ex-Atlantans on this list, have managed to round up some folks to talk about doing something. If you are in the Metro Atlanta area, please consider stopping by Sunday afternoon. We will make plans with whoever shows up. Sunday, July 22nd, 4pm at Innovox. This is a cyber-cafe in Midtown, near the Kroger and the new Home Depot on Ponce. It is next to City Hall East and shares a parking lot with Kroger. They have a wireless network and plenty of comfy chairs. INNOVOX LOUNGE 699 PONCE DE LEON AVE NE, ATLANTA, GA 30308, (404) 872-4482 We have a mailing list, you can sign up and check out the archive to see past messages. Info is at: http://hackeredu.net/mailman/listinfo/freedmitry_hackeredu.net Send me an email if you have any questions or, better yet, get on the list. Andrea ------------------------------------------------------- feorlen at acm dot org From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Sat Jul 21 21:45:39 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: boycottadobe.com logo In-Reply-To: <01072123305002.03179@frankie> Message-ID: > > On Friday 20 July 2001 07:22 pm, mike castleman wrote: > > > I just wanted to comment on the modified Adobe logo on the > > > boycottadobe.com website. I'm not clear what the artist is trying to > > > communicate by inserting the Communist hammer/sickle in the Adobe Tell me if you like anything at www.math.niu.edu/~caj/adobe.html -S From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu Sat Jul 21 21:55:44 2001 From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian Hicks) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov-portland] Re: [free-sklyarov] DMCA flyer In-Reply-To: ; from jeme@brelin.net on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 06:50:45PM -0700 References: <20010721175733.I25362@halibut.com> Message-ID: <20010721235544.B11567@magic.com> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 06:50:45PM -0700, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, David Carmean wrote: > > I would change this, to what I'm not sure, but we'll lose credibility by > > claiming that a private corporation can order a government agency take > > a particular action. People will dismiss us as paranoid conspiracy > > theorists. > > Unfortunately, this is exactly what happened. And this will continue to > happen as long as the DMCA stands... corporations will be able to quell > the speech of individuals and use the force of criminal action at THEIR > DISCRETION... not the discretion of law enforcement. Nonetheless, I would still agree that the wording should be changed from "ordered" to "persuaded". Or change it to say that Adobe "brought a complaint against" Dmitry. -- Brian Hicks* "Crush the lesser races! Conquer the PGP: 0xADDD1F16 galaxy! Incredible power, unlimited rice pudding, et cetera, et cetera." *Not Brian Behlendorf -- The Doctor -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010721/7041128c/attachment.pgp From declan at well.com Sat Jul 21 22:04:07 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: ; from izel@sulam.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 11:31:50PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010722010407.A26429@cluebot.com> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 11:31:50PM -0400, Izel Sulam wrote: > Declan, you seem to be operating under the assumption that this case is our > only chance of getting the DMCA repealed. This is a silly statement. I've written fairly extensively about both other lawsuits: http://www.politechbot.com/cgi-bin/politech.cgi?name=dmca -Declan From vam_huy at mail.ru Sat Jul 21 22:03:35 2001 From: vam_huy at mail.ru (Huy Vam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Progress report Message-ID: Starting Thursday night, Adobe has been the tagret of massive virus attack. Glad to tell you, their intranet is pretty much in disarray right now. From mark at blorch.org Sat Jul 21 22:14:58 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Los Angeles Message-ID: <3B5A6152.5050300@blorch.org> > If there's enough interest, I'd be more than happy to use my web site > (hackhawk.net) as a focal point. I could easily setup a local mailing list > too. Before I spend the time working on it, I need to see if there's at > least 5 to 10 people interested in forming a rally here in LA/Irvine. > Looks like most of the folks who are able are headed elsewhere on Monday. But we could see how things go with a mind to a "Free Dmitry" rally here. Maybe at the Federal Building. Mark From gaolbait at home.com Sat Jul 21 22:27:17 2001 From: gaolbait at home.com (Oscar Wilde) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: evil communist hacker References: Message-ID: <003c01c1126e$fc796040$667ba8c0@palto1.sfba.home.com> << Neither the public nor the courts will have much affection for (what they perceive to be) Yet Another Communist Hacker. >> What kind of evil hacker (a) signs his work with his real name and (b) travels to the USA on his own volition to give a PowerPoint presentation on the weaknesses of a commercial software provider's security implementation? Sklyarov is at least as sympathetic a figure as Jon Johanssen, the Norwegian teenager who released DeCSS. As a mere employee of the company that holds the rights to the program in question, he is unjustly accused of "trafficking". He's a pawn in a commercial dispute between two software companies, one of which, because of the DMCA, is able to use the FBI to pursue its case and have US taxpayers pick up the tab. This is the angle Richard Smith has been emphasizing, and I'm gratified that he's been getting good ink with it. Oscar From schoen at loyalty.org Sat Jul 21 22:29:48 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Progress report In-Reply-To: ; from vam_huy@mail.ru on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 09:03:35AM +0400 References: Message-ID: <20010721222948.G30157@zork.net> Huy Vam writes: > Starting Thursday night, Adobe has been the tagret of massive virus attack. > Glad to tell you, their intranet is pretty much in disarray right now. If this fact is mentioned at Dmitry Sklyarov's bail hearing, it could hurt his chances for favorable bail conditions. In addition, it will allow Adobe to say to the FBI "Look! Look! Those evil hackers are all trying to hurt us! You've got to crack down on them!". Contrast this message with the more factual A programmer allowed consumers to regain their traditional fair use rights in the face of publishing industry efforts to prevent or impose royalties on legal uses; Adobe used a new law to get the programmer thrown in prison! Which of these is true? Which helps Sklyarov more? Which one will the public and the government believe, if Adobe's network actually starts getting attacked? Attacking Adobe's network will never make Adobe more willing to negotiate, more aware of the evils of the DMCA, or more open to the realization that Sklyarov is not a criminal. It will, on the other hand, prevent them from reading all the mail about how their own customers are abandoning the Adobe product lines. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From admin at seattle-chat.com Sat Jul 21 22:32:27 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Progress report In-Reply-To: <20010721222948.G30157@zork.net> Message-ID: Well said Seth! -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Seth David Schoen Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 10:30 PM To: free_sklyarov Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Progress report Huy Vam writes: > Starting Thursday night, Adobe has been the tagret of massive virus attack. > Glad to tell you, their intranet is pretty much in disarray right now. If this fact is mentioned at Dmitry Sklyarov's bail hearing, it could hurt his chances for favorable bail conditions. In addition, it will allow Adobe to say to the FBI "Look! Look! Those evil hackers are all trying to hurt us! You've got to crack down on them!". Contrast this message with the more factual A programmer allowed consumers to regain their traditional fair use rights in the face of publishing industry efforts to prevent or impose royalties on legal uses; Adobe used a new law to get the programmer thrown in prison! Which of these is true? Which helps Sklyarov more? Which one will the public and the government believe, if Adobe's network actually starts getting attacked? Attacking Adobe's network will never make Adobe more willing to negotiate, more aware of the evils of the DMCA, or more open to the realization that Sklyarov is not a criminal. It will, on the other hand, prevent them from reading all the mail about how their own customers are abandoning the Adobe product lines. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu Sat Jul 21 22:45:01 2001 From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian Hicks) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: <20010721225908.B19559@cluebot.com>; from declan@well.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 10:59:08PM -0400 References: <20010721223549.B7172@lemuria.org> <20010721225908.B19559@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010722004501.C11567@magic.com> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 10:59:08PM -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: > A mild addition: What happens when a company has decent (or at least > better than crappy) products, security broken, DMCA prosecution happens? > > That line of argument won't work then. Just a thought for the future, > and a reminder that the current state of federal law is the real > problem you folks have. Well, if it's a copy-protection scheme, it can't work. At least, not without tamper-proof hardware, and that doesn't exist either. -- Brian Hicks* "Crush the lesser races! Conquer the PGP: 0xADDD1F16 galaxy! Incredible power, unlimited rice pudding, et cetera, et cetera." *Not Brian Behlendorf -- The Doctor -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010722/cc49a7b8/attachment.pgp From drumz at best.com Sat Jul 21 22:44:25 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: boycottadobe.com logo In-Reply-To: from Xcott Craver at "Jul 22, 1 00:45:39 am" Message-ID: <200107220544.WAA16769@shell3.ba.best.com> > Tell me if you like anything at www.math.niu.edu/~caj/adobe.html > > -S Nice! I quite like some of these, especially Adobe Illuminati and Prison Cell. If you were to do a bit more anti-aliasing, and also link to high-res versions suitable for printing out nice and big at 150 DPI, I'd like them even more. Ethan From sethf at sethf.com Sat Jul 21 22:57:33 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest strategy & goals References: <006101c1123e$53b64110$f92b1bd8@timxp> <5.1.0.14.0.20010721192459.03131160@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> <20010721230353.C19559@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <3B5A6B4D.18A6154@sethf.com> >> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 07:37:08PM -0700, Bob La Quey wrote: >> Wrong. Adobe and the big corporations whose greed got the DMCA passed by 99-0 >> are the root cause of the problem. The DMCA is an important symptom but please >> let us not confuse cause and effect here. Adobe must suffer a massive PR hit > Declan McCullagh wrote: > Could not another competing "problem" be the fact that congresscritters > are such knaves that not one voted against the DMCA? > > Oh, no. I suppose it would be too much to hold them to such a high standard. > > -Declan Myself, I think the fundamental question is "What Is Property?". Having large corporations being able to redefine property to their own advantage strikes me as the basic problem (as has been articulated elsewhere). Complaining that Congress has a moral responsibility to define property in some conjectured Libertarian-type fashion, and then endlessly repeating some variant of government-bad when they do not - well, it seems to me that's unproductive in the extreme. Maybe it fills column space. But in terms of analysis, in terms of having any utility whatsoever besides preaching (maybe not even to the choir), I just don't see it. Here's the key difference; When someone looks at the motives of the corporations, they understand *WHY* the law was passed, and that can lead to some possible insight as to how to change it. In contrast, when someone merely proclaims their scripture as to what the government SHOULD do, it's the net equivalent of bible-banging. Both the courts and Congress are noticeably unreceptive to it, and it leads to nothing besides more bible-banging as they will remain unreceptive to it. -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From jssj2001 at hotmail.com Sat Jul 21 22:54:53 2001 From: jssj2001 at hotmail.com (y s) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: boycottadobe.com logo Message-ID: What a shame! You apparently used Adobe packages for these logos! >From: Xcott Craver >To: >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: boycottadobe.com logo >Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 00:45:39 -0400 (EDT) > > > > On Friday 20 July 2001 07:22 pm, mike castleman wrote: > > > > I just wanted to comment on the modified Adobe logo on the > > > > boycottadobe.com website. I'm not clear what the artist is trying to > > > > communicate by inserting the Communist hammer/sickle in the Adobe > > Tell me if you like anything at www.math.niu.edu/~caj/adobe.html > > -S _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From lgorkin1 at nyc.rr.com Sat Jul 21 22:55:33 2001 From: lgorkin1 at nyc.rr.com (Leonid Gorkin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New York protest on Monday Message-ID: <01072201553307.10520@lorien> I just came back from the planning meeting. A lot of people showed up and the meeting was realy productive, we had flyers printed out and started to distribute them. Everybody supported the protest demonstation on Monday, so we are going ahead as scheduled. WHERE: 5th Avenue between 41st and 42nd Streets, in front of New York public library. WHEN: Monday, July 23, 12 noon WHAT TO BRING: Please bring a sign, it should be short and straight to the point. We will have "Free Dmitry", "Stop DMCA" and "Boycott Adobe" signs. We will have flyers printed. CONTACT: If you have any questions, contact Leonid Gorkin, lgorkin1@nyc.rr.com See you all on Monday!!!! Leonid From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Sat Jul 21 23:01:59 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: boycottadobe.com logo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, y s wrote: > What a shame! You apparently used Adobe packages for these logos! I used Gobe Productive on BeOS. Adobe doesn't even make software for my OS. -S [Although I do have a freeware PDF viewer] From vam_huy at mail.ru Sat Jul 21 23:06:54 2001 From: vam_huy at mail.ru (Huy Vam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New York protest on Monday In-Reply-To: <01072201553307.10520@lorien> Message-ID: Leonid, I am really disappointed. I hoped Russians living in your capitalist hell can do something more drastic than just stupid "protest demonstation on Monday". -----Original Message----- From: Leonid Gorkin To: nylug-talk@nylug.org Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 01:55:33 -0400 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New York protest on Monday > > I just came back from the planning meeting. A lot of people showed up and the > meeting was realy productive, we had flyers printed out and started to > distribute them. Everybody supported the protest demonstation on Monday, so > we are going ahead as scheduled. > > > WHERE: > > 5th Avenue between 41st and 42nd Streets, in front of New York public > library. > > > WHEN: > > Monday, July 23, 12 noon > > WHAT TO BRING: > > Please bring a sign, it should be short and straight to the point. We will > have "Free Dmitry", "Stop DMCA" and "Boycott Adobe" signs. We will have > flyers printed. > > CONTACT: > > If you have any questions, contact Leonid Gorkin, lgorkin1@nyc.rr.com > > See you all on Monday!!!! > > Leonid > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From jays at panix.com Sat Jul 21 23:10:43 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [nylug-talk] New York protest on Monday In-Reply-To: <200107220608.f6M68PY05561@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Brooklyn Linux Solutions CEO wrote: > Did anyone write any letters to Charlie Rangel, or > Chuck Schumer.... > > Did you make any plans for action after the Protest? > > What is the plan to Lobbie against the DMCA and the new Bills in > the pipeline which extend that power further to databases? > > > Ruben Ruben, you are right. We shall write letters, and indeed there are example letters already up on various websites. oo--JS. From neale at woozle.org Sat Jul 21 23:14:00 2001 From: neale at woozle.org (Neale Pickett) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: WTO and Sklyarov/Adobe/DMCA In-Reply-To: <20010721095544.A14034@mso.oz.net> References: <002601c1122d$150e94f0$6501a8c0@sarnath> <20010721095544.A14034@mso.oz.net> Message-ID: Mike, thank you for this thoughtful exposition. This is what I was trying to express, but you have punctuated my sentiments very lucidly. I did not mean to imply WTO or WTOII were not worth while, but as you wrote, there is much to be learned with how events proceeded and how they were covered by the media. Opinions have become entrenched, and the Seattle contingent now consists of those who will protest on Monday at 11:00, and those who will await word from the EFF at a nearby park. Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but I support the peaceful actions of everyone on this list: we are all taking what we feel to be the best course of action to help free Dmitry. I'm looking forward to seeing everyone on Monday, and wish the best of luck to you all! Neale Mike Orr writes: > On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 11:57:23PM -0700, Neale Pickett wrote: >> But we don't want to spoil things for the EFF by protesting anyway. WTO >> has left a sour taste in our mouth (who can name three issues raised by >> protesters during WTO? Okay now who can name three kinds of anti-riot >> gear used by police?), so we want to make sure we use our ability to >> protest as a strategic tool, not an end in and of itself. >> >> This strategy may not work so well in other parts of the country, less >> seasoned by protests gone awry :-) > I don't agree with Neale's negative assessment of the WTO protests, but > I support his position of restraint in the Sklyarov/Adobe/DMCA case. > And maybe--as he says--it's because I was at WTO and WTO II (=the > anniversary), am living with its aftermath, and saw how the (especially > non-local) media misrepresented it and various (local) interests use its > memory for their own ends. BTW, I'm ambivalent about "free trade" vs > "fair trade", but I'm hopping mad about the DMCA. > I must object to the term "protests gone awry". Many people in Seattle > feel the WTO protest didn't "go awry": it went just fine, thank you. > The main denouncers are a few boosters wringing their hands over > our "tarnished image as a world-class city", whatever that means. I > guess it means they can't woo companies here as easily as they used to. > Big deal. This is not to discount the real negative consequences of the > event: non-protestors being arrested, protesters receiving "excessive > force", and innocent businesses downtown losing money. But the real > lesson of the WTO protest transcends these unfortunate occurrences and > even the political issues involved. > The lesson is that ordinary people can make a difference. 20,000 people > attending--and millions of people who didn't--rediscovered the fact that > they are not powerless, that they can make governments and companies > listen to their concerns, and if not force them to do the right thing, > at least force them to give lip service to it or find themselves in an > embarrassing situation. The whole four days of WTO was worth it just to > see Madeline Albright detained in her hotel for half a day! Sorry for > the inconvenience, Madeline, but you unwittingly ushered in an age of > public participation in "the system", and that's what the United States > of America is supposed to be about. > But what were the protesters saying and how was it perceived? This is > why I urge restraint in the current situation. > "Who can name three issues raised by protesters during WTO? Okay now > who can name three kinds of anti-riot gear used by police?" This is > exactly right. All the anti-globalization protests have done a great > job of drawing attention to themselves, but a bad job of drawing > attention to the issues. And it's not because of a lack of trying: > WTO and WTO II had teach-ins galore (and still do). It's because the > media likes to report on civil unrest and name-calling, and once that > starts, everything else goes out the window. 80% of the newspaper > coverage of all the protests the past two years has been about the > outlandish things people did, not about the issues. > Also, remember that the public has much less understanding of DMCA > issues than they do about trade/NAFTA/labor, and our position sounds so > weird and paranoid they are reluctant to accept it. We must not lose > our historic chance to educate people about the DMCA by degenerating > into an anti-Adobe protest or a protest-for-the-sake-of-protest. > This last point bears repeating. During both WTO and WTOII, there > were three distinct types of protesters during the day (every day). In > the daytime, the talk was almost exclusively on > trade/NAFTA/labor/environment, the labor unions were out in force, > and the most ingenious forms of protest took place. At WTO II, the > protesters presented the mayor with a cake to thank him for bringing the > trade conference to town and thus giving a forum for the protesters to > state their grievances. (The irony of course is that the mayor is a > booster!) (PS. It wasn't the mayor who initiated the conference.) > Around 5pm, most of those people went home and another type of protester > started arriving, and the rhetoric changed from being mostly about > trade to being mostly about free speech and police excesses. Then > around 8pm, most of those people went home and a third type of > protester became predominent. These people were more anti-police than > anything else, and were determined to sit in the intersections until > they were arrested. It felt like you could ask somebody, "Hey, wasn't > this protest supposed to be about trade?" and they would have responded, > "Trade? What's trade?" > -- > -Mike (Iron) Orr, iron@mso.oz.net (if mail problems: mso@jimpick.com) > http://iron.cx/ English * Esperanto * Russkiy * Deutsch * Espan~ol From sethf at sethf.com Sat Jul 21 23:16:27 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest strategy & goals References: <200107220412.VAA05199@shell3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <3B5A6FBB.9DFCE166@sethf.com> Ethan Straffin wrote: > His African-American boss, who supports the anchor, nevertheless > delivers the following warning: "No rich young white guy has ever > gotten anywhere with me comparing himself to Rosa Parks." > > I don't really agree with that stance; I think the argument transcends the > arguer and don't believe in shooting the messenger. It's just something > to think about when making historical analogies, whether to WWII-era > Germany or segregation-era Montgomery. With regard to Rosa Parks, I think it really helps activists to know the history as opposed to the myth. Such as: http://e-portals.org/Parks/ On December 1, 1955, seamstress Rosa Parks changed America forever when she was arrested for refusing to yield her seat to a white patron on a Montgomery, Alabama city bus. Mrs. Parks was found guilty of disorderly conduct and that lead directly to the famous Montgomery Bus Boycott. However, Mrs. Parks was not the "quiet seamstress" as the media has often portrayed her. In 1943 she became a member of the Montgomery chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), and she served as its secretary until 1956. -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From crism at maden.org Sat Jul 21 23:17:00 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Parallels? Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010721231218.00b0c1b0@mail.maden.org> I'm going to take a wild guess that Photoshop has been used at least once to modify or copy a work of child pornography. If Dmitry is morally guilty of software piracy,[*] then doesn't it follow that the individual Photoshop programmers are morally guilty of child pornography? Is there a succinct way to work that into a protest sign? -crism [*] I understand that he's not charged with software piracy. He's charged with trafficking in forbidden technology,[**] but the reason that that's illegal is because it will obviously give rise to rampant software piracy. [**] I like "forbidden technology" better than copyright technology circumvention tools; it conveys, I think, the accurate feeling of totalitarianism and dystopian fearmongering. -- "You will find that the State is the kind of organization which, though it does big things badly, does small things badly too." - J.K. Galbraith === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From nick at zork.net Sat Jul 21 23:21:32 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New York protest on Monday In-Reply-To: ; from vam_huy@mail.ru on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 10:06:54AM +0400 References: <01072201553307.10520@lorien> Message-ID: <20010721232132.F12229@zork.net> Begin Huy Vam quotation: > I am really disappointed. I hoped Russians living in your capitalist > hell can do something more drastic than just stupid "protest > demonstation on Monday". I realize that it must be frustrating to sit on the other side of the globe and watch your fellow countrymen persecuted by our unjust laws. However, right now we are fighting a war of public opinion, not of conquest or revolution. Taking any sort of "drastic" action would turn people against our cause, since they'd paint the whole movement as being petty and desperate. It wouldn't get Dmitry out of jail, or the law fixed, or anything like that. Right now we need to make people realize that the DMCA is a bad law, and that Dmitry is a nice person who should not be in jail. If we can get enough people on our side, then we have a chance at fighting it. If we do something "drastic", we will turn people away. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From vam_huy at mail.ru Sat Jul 21 23:21:41 2001 From: vam_huy at mail.ru (Huy Vam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] I am sick and tired! In-Reply-To: <3B5A6B4D.18A6154@sethf.com> Message-ID: All this intellectual bullshit (like the messages below) just shows what kind of helpless impotents you all are. While our comrade Dmitry is in jail, all you can do is - demonstrations, legal actions, "write letters to Charlie Rangel, or Chuck Schumer".... What a shame! -----Original Message----- From: Seth Finkelstein To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 01:57:33 -0400 Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Protest strategy & goals > > >> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 07:37:08PM -0700, Bob La Quey wrote: > >> Wrong. Adobe and the big corporations whose greed got the DMCA passed by 99-0 > >> are the root cause of the problem. The DMCA is an important symptom but please > >> let us not confuse cause and effect here. Adobe must suffer a massive PR hit > > > Declan McCullagh wrote: > > Could not another competing "problem" be the fact that congresscritters > > are such knaves that not one voted against the DMCA? > > > > Oh, no. I suppose it would be too much to hold them to such a high standard. > > > > -Declan > > Myself, I think the fundamental question is > "What Is Property?". Having large corporations being able to > redefine property to their own advantage strikes me as the > basic problem (as has been articulated elsewhere). Complaining > that Congress has a moral responsibility to define property > in some conjectured Libertarian-type fashion, and then endlessly > repeating some variant of government-bad when they do not - well, > it seems to me that's unproductive in the extreme. Maybe it > fills column space. But in terms of analysis, in terms of having > any utility whatsoever besides preaching (maybe not even to the > choir), I just don't see it. > > Here's the key difference; When someone looks at the motives > of the corporations, they understand *WHY* the law was passed, > and that can lead to some possible insight as to how to change it. > In contrast, when someone merely proclaims their scripture as > to what the government SHOULD do, it's the net equivalent of > bible-banging. Both the courts and Congress are noticeably > unreceptive to it, and it leads to nothing besides more > bible-banging as they will remain unreceptive to it. > > -- > Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com > http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From crism at maden.org Sat Jul 21 23:25:30 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] I am sick and tired! In-Reply-To: References: <3B5A6B4D.18A6154@sethf.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010721232247.00b15e30@mail.maden.org> At 23:21 21-07-2001, Huy Vam wrote: >All this intellectual bullshit (like the messages below) just shows what >kind of helpless impotents you all are. >While our comrade Dmitry is in jail, all you can do is - demonstrations, >legal actions, "write letters to Charlie Rangel, or Chuck Schumer".... >What a shame! I do appreciate how you feel (really!). I'm an anarchist at heart, but a Libertarian because I'm too pessimistic about human nature. However, the only illegal action that is going to get Dmitry out of jail is a successful jailbreak (and I, at least, am not equipped for that). Any other illegal action - virus attacks, mailbombs, synfloods - is only going to keep him in jail and increase the likelihood of a guilty verdict and longer sentence. -crism -- "You will find that the State is the kind of organization which, though it does big things badly, does small things badly too." - J.K. Galbraith === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From mlc67 at columbia.edu Sat Jul 21 23:37:45 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: boycottadobe.com logo In-Reply-To: ; from sacraver@EE.Princeton.EDU on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 12:45:39AM -0400 References: <01072123305002.03179@frankie> Message-ID: <20010721233745.B30606@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Ooh, nice! I like the prison cell one especially. mike On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 12:45:39AM -0400, Xcott Craver wrote: > > Tell me if you like anything at www.math.niu.edu/~caj/adobe.html > > -S -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // cell: +1 (646) 382-7220 // "facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - aldous huxley -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010721/9dab1ecc/attachment.pgp From sethf at sethf.com Sat Jul 21 23:54:12 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] I am sick and tired! References: Message-ID: <3B5A7894.B2CFF03C@sethf.com> On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 10:21:41AM +0400, Huy Vam wrote: > All this intellectual bullshit (like the messages below) just shows > what kind of helpless impotents you all are. While our comrade > Dmitry is in jail, all you can do is - demonstrations, legal > actions, "write letters to Charlie Rangel, or Chuck Schumer".... > What a shame! My apologies, comrade. I am a poor excuse for a revolutionary. I am slow, with bad wrists, and an academic at heart. Truly, you will have to find another man for the commando team. I must regret I cannot perform good service in the Programmer's Revolution Army. -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From mellon at pobox.com Sat Jul 21 23:52:17 2001 From: mellon at pobox.com (Anatoly Vorobey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] I am sick and tired! In-Reply-To: ; from Huy Vam on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 10:21:41AM +0400 References: <3B5A6B4D.18A6154@sethf.com> Message-ID: <20010722095217.09646@techunix.technion.ac.il> You, Huy Vam, were spotted writing this on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 10:21:41AM +0400: > All this intellectual bullshit (like the messages below) just shows what kind of helpless impotents you all are. > While our comrade Dmitry is in jail, all you can do is - demonstrations, legal actions, "write letters to Charlie Rangel, or Chuck Schumer".... > What a shame! Note: this is a troll, it should be ignored. mail.ru is the Russian Hotmail, and the name of the troll, 'Huy Vam', can roughly be approximated as "suck a dick" in English. -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Sat Jul 21 23:58:26 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] I am sick and tired! In-Reply-To: <20010722095217.09646@techunix.technion.ac.il> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Anatoly Vorobey wrote: > Note: this is a troll, it should be ignored. mail.ru is the Russian Hotmail, > and the name of the troll, 'Huy Vam', can roughly be approximated as "suck a > dick" in English. Pshaw, no Huy! -S From vam_huy at mail.ru Sat Jul 21 23:58:45 2001 From: vam_huy at mail.ru (Huy Vam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] I am sick and tired! In-Reply-To: <3B5A7894.B2CFF03C@sethf.com> Message-ID: I see. You ( Seth Finkelstein) are "slow, with bad wrists". However: "an academic at heart". That is why the only thing you are not slow is this pseudo-intellectual masturbation. Shit. -----Original Message----- From: Seth Finkelstein To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 02:54:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] I am sick and tired! > > On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 10:21:41AM +0400, Huy Vam wrote: > > All this intellectual bullshit (like the messages below) just shows > > what kind of helpless impotents you all are. While our comrade > > Dmitry is in jail, all you can do is - demonstrations, legal > > actions, "write letters to Charlie Rangel, or Chuck Schumer".... > > What a shame! > > My apologies, comrade. I am a poor excuse for a revolutionary. > I am slow, with bad wrists, and an academic at heart. Truly, you > will have to find another man for the commando team. I must regret > I cannot perform good service in the Programmer's Revolution Army. > > -- > Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com > http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html > From jono at microshaft.org Sun Jul 22 00:01:16 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] I am sick and tired! In-Reply-To: ; from vam_huy@mail.ru on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 10:58:45AM +0400 References: <3B5A7894.B2CFF03C@sethf.com> Message-ID: <20010722000116.Q86996@networkcommand.com> Adobe PLANT, RIAA PLANT! Ignore... ;) On 22-Jul-2001, Huy Vam wrote: > I see. You ( Seth Finkelstein) are "slow, with bad wrists". However: "an academic at heart". That is why the only thing you are not slow is this pseudo-intellectual masturbation. Shit. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Seth Finkelstein > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 02:54:12 -0400 > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] I am sick and tired! > > > > > On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 10:21:41AM +0400, Huy Vam wrote: > > > All this intellectual bullshit (like the messages below) just shows > > > what kind of helpless impotents you all are. While our comrade > > > Dmitry is in jail, all you can do is - demonstrations, legal > > > actions, "write letters to Charlie Rangel, or Chuck Schumer".... > > > What a shame! > > > > My apologies, comrade. I am a poor excuse for a revolutionary. > > I am slow, with bad wrists, and an academic at heart. Truly, you > > will have to find another man for the commando team. I must regret > > I cannot perform good service in the Programmer's Revolution Army. > > > > -- > > Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com > > http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010722/38b13273/attachment.pgp From mellon at pobox.com Sun Jul 22 00:02:39 2001 From: mellon at pobox.com (Anatoly Vorobey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] I am sick and tired! In-Reply-To: <20010722095217.09646@techunix.technion.ac.il>; from Anatoly Vorobey on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 09:52:17AM +0300 References: <3B5A6B4D.18A6154@sethf.com> <20010722095217.09646@techunix.technion.ac.il> Message-ID: <20010722100239.54030@techunix.technion.ac.il> I wrote: > Note: this is a troll, it should be ignored. mail.ru is the Russian Hotmail, > and the name of the troll, 'Huy Vam', can roughly be approximated as "suck a > dick" in English. This troll is also the same person as "y s" (jssj2001@hotmail.com). Neither should be trusted or minded. Go away, little troll. -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton From admin at seattle-chat.com Sun Jul 22 00:55:18 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW: MSNBC Article about Protest's Message-ID: http://www.msnbc.com/news/602444.asp?0si=- From tom at lemuria.org Sun Jul 22 01:22:11 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Alan Cox reaction Message-ID: <20010722102209.A8716@lemuria.org> I've been wondering ever since this broke what we, the non-US citizen can do. and yes, I've already sent letters to both the local US consul (snail-mail) and the local russian consul (e-mail). I would also sent some to my representatives if it weren't for the fact that I'm currently discussing some other topic (WIPO related) with both of them and don't want to distract or appear to be paranoid. alan's comments to usenix, however, made me wonder. I doubt that things like this are very effective, but they certainly FEEL right. when a company does big, bad and evil things, I stop buying their stuff. so what do we do if a country is so fucked up that visiting it becomes dangerous? I *am* a defendant in the california DeCSS case (civil and non-DMCA, so no immediate danger), and AFAIK I'm the only one of them who still has his site up, so there's no knowing what would happen when I leave the plane. so personally, I understand and support alan's comments. especially since it appears that US courts will use *any* excuse to allow themselves jurisdiction over foreign nationals. therefore, I believe the time has come to make a choice. those of us who are not americans should minimize their contacts to the USA, especially commercial contacts. if we don't, we can be sure that they will be used against us, if only to establish jurisdiction. a larger "boycot-dmca-country" activity might even be asked for. then again, I might just be overreacting. other non-us list-members, please share your thoughts on this one. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From pablos at kadrevis.com Sun Jul 22 01:33:32 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller and Dmitry (fwd) Message-ID: <29320.995765612@[10.0.1.220]> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Sunday, July 22, 2001 12:51 PM +0800 From: Walter Barrett To: "nicehair@boycottadobe.com" Subject: Robert Mueller and Dmitry I ran across some information I thought you find interesting. Apparently, Robert Mueller, who is the nominee for FBI director, is currently the head U.S. Attorney of the jurisdiction for Dmitry's case, and Mueller will face Senate confirmation hearings on July 30 (see http://cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/07/18/fbi.mueller/index.html and http://cnn.com/2001/LAW/07/05/mueller.profile/index.html ). Just a thought, but I would think the publicity surrounding Dmitry would dramatically increase if people were asked to contact their U.S. Senators to oppose Mueller's nomination because of Mueller's actions against Dmitry. After reading the CNN stories, Mueller is expected to sail smoothly through confirmation hearings, therefore, any negativity of Mueller's actions may easily obtain media attention. -- _______________________________________________ FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Talk More, Pay Less with Net2Phone Direct(R), up to 1500 minutes free! http://www.net2phone.com/cgi-bin/link.cgi?143 ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Sun Jul 22 01:44:56 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Alan Cox reaction In-Reply-To: <20010722102209.A8716@lemuria.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Tom wrote: > alan's comments to usenix, however, made me wonder. I doubt that things > like this are very effective, but they certainly FEEL right. The problem is that other countries are next, with similar copyright laws. You can't just flee the US and be safe. One other problem is that a "boycott" has to be noticeable, if only from a PR standpoint. Americans have the funny tendency to be completely out of touch with the rest of the world; Canada could declare war on us and we wouldn't even notice. > -- http://web.lemuria.org -S From tom at lemuria.org Sun Jul 22 01:40:18 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: <20010721225908.B19559@cluebot.com>; from declan@well.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 10:59:08PM -0400 References: <20010721223549.B7172@lemuria.org> <20010721225908.B19559@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010722104015.B8716@lemuria.org> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 10:59:08PM -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: > A mild addition: What happens when a company has decent (or at least > better than crappy) products, security broken, DMCA prosecution happens? I would assume that by definition a company who understands crypto enough to make it good would not believe shooting the messenger is a cure. however, if and when that happens, there will be other arguments available. often, having MANY reasons to call something bad is much better than having a single, but strong one. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From pablos at kadrevis.com Sun Jul 22 02:05:30 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA Protest on the Capitol steps, AUSTIN, Texas, MONDAY, 11am-12:30pm (fwd) (fwd) Message-ID: <144403.995767530@[10.0.1.220]> Now there are rallies in 18 cities: San Jose, CA Boston, MA Denver, CO Chicago, IL Seattle, WA Portland, OR Reno, NV Austin, TX Atlanta, GA Salt Lake City, UT Detroit, MI Munich, Germany Washington, DC Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN New York, NY Albuquerque, NM San Diego, CA Moscow, Russia pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From tom at lemuria.org Sun Jul 22 02:54:54 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Alan Cox reaction In-Reply-To: ; from sacraver@EE.Princeton.EDU on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 04:44:56AM -0400 References: <20010722102209.A8716@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20010722115452.C8716@lemuria.org> On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 04:44:56AM -0400, Xcott Craver wrote: > > alan's comments to usenix, however, made me wonder. I doubt that things > > like this are very effective, but they certainly FEEL right. > > The problem is that other countries are next, with similar > copyright laws. You can't just flee the US and be safe. I am already fighting the euro-DMCA locally, thank you. > One other problem is that a "boycott" has to be noticeable, > if only from a PR standpoint. Americans have the funny > tendency to be completely out of touch with the rest of the > world; Canada could declare war on us and we wouldn't even > notice. "brain-drain" is an incredible PR opportunity. someone has already turned down an adobe job offer. if we had someone else who refuses to move to the states now as a result of this, and a few others who say they had been contemplating it, but now they've changed their minds - some journalist will make a story of it. ("high-tech minds abandoning the USA after DMCA prosecution") -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Sun Jul 22 03:08:19 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Alan Cox reaction In-Reply-To: <20010722115452.C8716@lemuria.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Tom wrote: > "brain-drain" is an incredible PR opportunity. someone has already > turned down an adobe job offer. if we had someone else who refuses to > move to the states now as a result of this, and a few others who say > they had been contemplating it, but now they've changed their minds - > some journalist will make a story of it. ("high-tech minds abandoning > the USA after DMCA prosecution") What would be really, really nice, is if some country publicly announced that it would avoid such laws. Brain-drain would be taken more seriously if some other country was actively enticing US talent away. Didn't Ireland once announce that it wouldn't restrict crypto back when the US was still trying to do so? They've been trying for a while to attract programming talent, and now I think they're the #2 exporter of software worldwide. -S From jays at panix.com Sun Jul 22 03:11:59 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Noon Monday 23 July 2001: Rally to Free Dmitry Sklyarov Message-ID: Noon Monday 23 July 2001 at 41st Street and Fifth Avenue, before the New York Public Library, on the Island of Manhattan, there will be a rally to free Dmitry Sklyarov. Note that this is not an LXNY event, but rather a special rally, whose Lead Organizer is Leonid Gorkin lgorkin@excite.com or lgorkin1@nyc.rr.com A press release will be issued shortly. There will be rallies in about twenty cities. http://www.boycottadobe.com/pages/rallies.html To download a flyer in jpg form go to: http://zork.net/~sexpot Below is Mr. Bad's notice. Jay Sulzberger Corresponding Secretary LXNY LXNY is New York's Free Computing Organization. http://www.lxny.org >From Mr. Bad's note at http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2001/7/20/34741/3199
Inforights Activists Unite To Free Dmitry Sklyarov By MisterBad Fri Jul 20th, 2001 at 08:28:30 AM EST A loose coalition of cypherpunks, cyberrights groups, Free Software activists, hacker organizations, and civil rights advocates have united under the umbrella of the Electronic Freedom Foundation (EFF) to protest the arrest of Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov on July 16th by the FBI in Las Vegas. ___________________________________________________________________________ Dmitry Sklyarov, an employee of ElcomSoft of Moscow, is the author of a software utility called Advanced eBook Processor. The AEPR allows legitimate purchasers of a digital book format called eBooks to exercise their fair use rights (such as making backup copies or reading eBooks on a Linux machine) with eBook files. These rights are normally impeded by the eBook security system. Adobe Systems, makers of the eBook, filed a complaint with the FBI about Sklyarov under the criminal section of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). Based on this complaint, the FBI arrested Dmitry in Las Vegas on July 16th. Sklyarov had given a presentation at Defcon, a convention for security experts, hackers, and cyberrights groups in Las Vegas, about weaknesses in the security system of the Adobe eBook platform. More coverage of the Sklyarov arrest and information about the legal foundations of the DMCA can be found here: http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?MenuID=2&WebPageID=1 Concerned cyberrights activists have concentrated around an email list called free-sklyarov. Within days, they have organized a world-wide network of protests scheduled for Monday, July 23rd, 2001. Held outside Adobe Systems' offices, US federal buildings, and US embassies, the protests will raise public awareness of the issues in the case and demand action from Adobe and the US government to free Dmitry Sklyarov and drop all charges. Already, demonstrations have been scheduled for San Francisco, Seattle, Denver, Chicago, Moscow, Boston, and other cities. In the Bay Area, protesters will be meeting in downtown San Jose at 11:00AM and march to Adobe Systems global headquarters. There, they will demand that Adobe withdraw its complaint and refrain from filing similar complaints under the DMCA. More information on the Free Sklyarov protests in San Jose and elsewhere is available here: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html Fair use, an important doctrine in US copyright law that allows purchasers of copyrighted material limited rights to quote and archive information, has been continually eroded by the DMCA in recent years. Notable cases include the RIAA vs. Napster and the MPAA vs. 2600 Magazine. Those cases, however, were civil suits between industry groups and individuals. It is believed that Sklyarov's is only the second case under the DMCA criminal sections, which went into effect in October of 2000.
From junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu Sun Jul 22 07:23:43 2001 From: junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu (Peter D. Junger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] legal precedent for code as free speech? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 21 Jul 2001 11:19:53 PDT." <4.3.2.7.2.20010721110809.00bc83b0@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200107221423.f6MENid17349@samsara.law.cwru.edu> "James S. Tyre" writes: : Actually, Judge Kaplan did say in the 2600 case that code is speech, but he : found that restrictions on it are subject only to what is called : intermediate scrutiny, rather than strict scrutiny, and that the functional : aspects of DeCSS outweighed the speech aspects. : : The other case you're thinking of is Junger v. Daley, which is similar to : Bernstein, but in a different Circuit. It's actually the only appellate : opinion on point, since the Ninth Circuit Opinion in Bernstein was vacated : after the gov't meaningfully changed the crypto export regs. (In theory, : one isn't supposed to cite to a vacated Opinion, but in the 2600 case, : everyone, including Judge Kaplan, did it anyway.) : : EFF has all of the various Bernstein decisions archived, probably Junger : also, but if not, EPIC should have Junger. The Sixth Corcuit's opinion in Junger v. Daley can be found at . [This is the original slip opinion without official page numbers.] The District Court opinion that was reversed and many, although not all, of the filings in the case can be found at . -- Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH EMAIL: junger@samsara.law.cwru.edu URL: http://samsara.law.cwru.edu NOTE: junger@pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu no longer exists From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Sun Jul 22 03:50:35 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] http://www.adobe.com/support/ebookrdrfaq.html References: Message-ID: <3B5AAFFB.31ECCC3B@sheffield.ac.uk> Guys, Try to go to http://www.adobe.com/support/ebookrdrfaq.html and click on: How can I be sure buying from the Adobe Bookstore is safe? There is NO answer!!!!!!!!!! After "Where can I order e-books" question there is "How long does it take to download the Acrobat eBook Reader" And the question "How can I be sure buying from the Adobe Bookstore is safe?" does not have an answer. Are they scared? MAybe the pressure works? I do not understand how to comment this thing. anton From kyhwana at world-net.co.nz Sun Jul 22 04:04:21 2001 From: kyhwana at world-net.co.nz (Daniel Richards) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fact Sheet. Message-ID: <3B5B5BF5.6575.C6DA411@localhost> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dmitry Sklyarov Fact Sheet. This is what I have been able to peice together so far, in no particular order. Please feel free to add/correct anything here (To the list, please) (Permission is granted to distribute/quote this document, such that it is) It's probably not complete either. a) Dmitry Sklyarov is a 26 year old from Russia. He is married to Oksana and has two children. A 2 1/2 year old boy named Egor and a three month old daughter, Polina. Dmitry works for Elcomsoft (URL) (as a cryptoanalyst? It?s unown if he codes) Mr. Sklyarov, a tall, lanky graduate student with a lopsided smile, is currently completing his Ph.D. at Moscow State Technical University. His dissertation, which examines the security of electronic book software, b) Elcomsoft writes various programs to crack/recover passwords on documents, including various "Mail Utilities". They have also done business with the FBI. b) What was he arrested for? The FBI claims (http://cryptome.org/usa-v-sklyarov.htm) trafficing, but the only thing he did while in the US is give his presentation on ebook security at DefCon. He did not distribute CD?s personally while in the US(That i?ve been able to find out), nor did he sell/distribute the program over the Internet. Elcomsoft/RegNow did that. c) Did Dmitry auctally code anything? According to Vladimir Katalov, there were three different programmers that worked on AEBPR while Dmitry only worked on algorithms. The screenshot the FBI got had the following on the bottom of the window "AEBPR 1.0 (c) 2001 Dmitry Sklyarov, Elcomsoft Co. Ltd." The license of AEBPR states "- All copyrights to AEBPR are exclusively owned by ElcomSoft Co.Ltd." In version 2.2, the copyright changed to "EBPR 2.2 (c) ElcomSoft Co. Ltd." http://www.wizaerdsrealm.com/forum/index.php?pAction=ReadMessa ge&nMsgNumber=1925 http://www.planetpdf.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=1546 d) Where is Dmitry now and what is his status? He was arrested by the FBI on Monday ~10am as he left Defcon to go home. As of the 22nd, 10pm NZT there has been no news on his whereabouts in the federal prison system. He could still be in Las Vegas or on his way to California. He has had access to a Russian Councilate (URL) e) What does AEBPR do? It strips out all DRM?s and outputs the ebook in plain PDF form. In order to do this, you have to have legally purchased the ebook and not copied it from someone else. f) How is Adobe involved? AEBPR strips out all DRM from ebooks using Adobe?s eBook reader, which it claims is secure. Adobe sells the ebook software to publishers, who then decide which encryption/DRM plugin?s to use. (Yes, one of which is ROT- 13) On the 25th of June, Adobe sent a notification to elcomsoft saying AEBPR was illegal and asked them to remove it from their site. http://www.elcomsoft.com/AEBPR/adobe1.txt On the 26th they contacted Verio (Elcomsoft?s ISP) telling them to shut down the website because it "offers downloads to their copyrighted software published by Adobe Systems." http://www.elcomsoft.com/AEBPR/adobe2.txt Daniel J. O?Connell (The FBI Agent) met with representatives of Adobe in San Jose including Kevin Nathanson, Group Products Manager. Nathanson and Daryl Spano, a technical Investigator, Investigations/Anti-Piracy show Mr O?Connel the Elcomsoft website as well as telling how they downloaded and purchased a key for AEBPR then decrypted an ebook. They also told the agent that Dmitry was going to be present at Defcon. http://cryptome.org/usa-v-sklyarov.htm On the 27th, Verio blocked Elcomsofts website. On the 28th, Adobe sent a compliant to Regnow (The site elcomsoft was selling AEBPR through), for "unauthorized distribution of software". At this point Elcomsoft stopped selling AEBPR. http://www.elcomsoft.com/AEBPR/adobe3.txt On the 4th of July, Elcomsoft released a new version of AEBPR (2.2) that works with Adobe eBook Reader 2.2. This is in response to Adobe changing the way the reader/encryption worked. According to Elcomsoft, Adobe had only made minimal changes. http://www.elcomsoft.com/aebpr.html On the 5th the FBI agent contacted Tom Diaz at Adobe who told him that he beleived that AEBPR circumvents protection afforded by a technological measure. (See the cryptome link above) g) Are Elcomsoft going to release source code? Vladimir has stated that they are thinking about releasing the source to AEBPR, possibly under the GPL if Adobe keep harrassing them. http://www.wizaerdsrealm.com/forum/index.php?pAction=ReadMessa ge&nMsgNumber=1925 h) http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=170 has a list of all the stories on this. i) Protests. There are protests organised for Monday. The mailing list has details on these.http://www.cryptonomicon.net/modules.php?op=modload&nam e=FAQ&file=index&myfaq=yes&id_cat=8&categories=Sklyarov+Cont roversy k) Someone has turned down a job opportunity at Adobe. l) Adobe has agreed to talk to the EFF, BUT neither Adobe nor the EFF are releasing the letter that Adobe sent to the EFF. m) Russia does NOT have it?s own DMCA. Dmitry was in Russia during the time he worked on AEBPR. According to various sources (Including Elcomsoft) it?s illegal in Russia to sell/otherwise a product where the users cannon?t backup data. The list has more on this to. ) Timeline! 2001/06/20: Elcomsoft releases AEBPR 1.0. 2001/06/25: Adobe Anti-Piracy "division" sends Elcomsoft the first C&D 2001/06/26: Adobe sends a C&D to Elcomsoft?s ISP, requesting they shut the site down. 2001/06/27: Verio complies and shuts the website down, but Elcomsoft switch to a different ISP 2001/06/28: Adobe sends a third C&D, this time to RegNow. First article is run by the Wall Street Journal. 2001/07/04: Elcomsoft releases AEBPR 2.2 in response to Adobe changing a few things. (Minimal Changes) 2001/07/10: Affidavit is filed by the FBI. 2001/07/16: Dmitry is arrested by the FBI as he leaves DefCon and made his first appear in a federal court. 2001/07/19: The Russian Councilate gets to see Dmitry. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: N/A iQA/AwUBO1oKdk2U96CYkyhIEQJWFQCg5LuMXCIE07EpZaZy/ZVMbZllTVoAn2fD G4fUoK5U40YhnVSZGDeZ2wCU =JIxC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ausage at ausage.com Sun Jul 22 04:24:51 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Alan Cox reaction In-Reply-To: <20010722102209.A8716@lemuria.org> References: <20010722102209.A8716@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <01072205543003.03179@frankie> On July 22, 2001 04:22 am, Tom wrote: > a larger "boycot-dmca-country" activity might even be asked for. then > again, I might just be overreacting. > > other non-us list-members, please share your thoughts on this one. As I have stated earlier, I agree very much with this sentiment to the point I have already started my own personal boycott of American companies... taking the time Friday to explain to one supplier that while a few days earlier I was quite eager to do business with them that now I am changing suppliers because of the DMCA actions of the US gov't. If US companies start losing business, especially those who deal in IP, then the pressure will mount to get the DMCA changed. It won't be fast enough to get Dimitry out of jail, but it can help to change the law and prevent other countries from implementing a DMCA. I suggest, every time you go to buy something find out if it originates from the USA. If it does - put it back on the shelf and tell the seller why you wont buy it, then go home and write, phone or email the manufacturer / producer and politely say, "Today I was going to buy your product XXX because I though it was really good, but then I noticed that I comes from a country that is persecuting foreigners and suppressing "Free Speech". I find it very strange when the citizens of country that is so proud of its "First Amendment" and the "Right of Free Speech" need to travel north, cross the border and apply for "Political Asylum" here in Canada, as happened last month. (see http://www.eff.org/Legal/Cases/Scientology_cases/20010622_eff_henson_pr.html ) From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Sun Jul 22 05:04:53 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Alan Cox reaction In-Reply-To: <01072205543003.03179@frankie> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Andrew Lawrence wrote: > I find it very strange when the citizens of country that is so proud of its > "First Amendment" and the "Right of Free Speech" need to travel north, cross > the border and apply for "Political Asylum" here in Canada, as happened last > month. > I imagine a flier, or a sidebar on a flier, whose basic theme is that people in search of free speech are being driven out of the US. It would include DMCA examples, this example, and possibly UCITA. UCITA can really create a sense of urgency, as it is being adopted state-by-state, like an infection. People are more likely to respond to a pattern, a rash of people leaving than one specific example. That will illustrate that something major is happening to the country, not just to some coders. So, are there other examples of people leaving the US, or moving conferences outside the US, or publicly pondering as much, over free speech issues? We have the Scientology "Cruise" missile bit, and Alan Cox, and Ross Anderson's comments to the press after IHW. -S From russ999 at earthlink.net Sun Jul 22 12:26:19 2001 From: russ999 at earthlink.net (Russell Mayfield) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Las Vegas protest Message-ID: I will be there in Las Vegas. Russ I want to help you build an automated income for your future freedom, and teach you how to successfully run your own business; Help to win back our freedom in this country. (USA) Support the Libertarian Party. From freesk at hackhawk.net Sun Jul 22 06:27:22 2001 From: freesk at hackhawk.net (hackhawk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Los Angeles fashionably late as usual! :-) Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010722061533.009ef180@localhost> Hello, As is predictable, Los Angeles is fashionably late in organizing a protest/rally. To email the LA distribution list, please use the address (freesklyarov@hackhawk.net). I have no automated method for adding/deleting members, so please email me at freesk@hackhawk.net to be added/removed. As the web site (http://www.hackhawk.net) states, our first order of business is to decide on exactly what we're going to do on Monday (or another day). I've had suggestions to meet at the Federal Building in Westwood, the LA Public Library in downtown LA, and the Irvine office of Adobe Systems. Ideally it would be nice to have the flexability of protesting the DMCA or the DOJ with the easy ability to hit the Adobe office if unfavorable news comes from the meeting between the EFF and Adobe Systems on Monday Morning. Unfortunately I don't think we have the luxury of having an Adobe Office right next to a Federal Office/Building. I agree with one of the main distribution posts that if we protest Adobe in front of a building that has no Adobe office we will look a little foolish and the media will focus on that aspect. So let's please discuss what our main focus/priority should be on Monday. I'm going to be getting some rest and will be back online around noon PST to continue the effort. - hh From ageddyn at minitru.org Sun Jul 22 07:19:33 2001 From: ageddyn at minitru.org (Dkr. Armand Geddyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Austin protest scheduled Monday Message-ID: (Reposted from http://www.minitru.org/dmca) "DMCA Protest on the Capitol steps, AUSTIN, Texas, MONDAY, 11am-12:30pm" FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Dkr. Armand Geddyn Michael Badnarik 2002 Libertarian Campaign LAS VEGAS - On July 16, the American FBI arrested Russian citizen and PhD candidate Dmitry Sklyarov, after his presentation on encryption techniques and standards of Adobe's popular "eBook" format. Sklyarov is the first programmer to be arrested under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), and is currently being held in a Las Vegas prison, awaiting extradition to California to face charges filed by Adobe. He has reportedly been denied contact with his employer, peers, or family. Sklyarov is, in short, a political prisoner as a result of the U.S.'s draconian copyright and intellectual property laws. What is the DMCA? Public Law No. 105-304 was signed into law by Congress October 28, 1998, and is often referred to as "the DMCA" or "the WIPO." In short, it is a fundamentally flawed and grossly unconstitutional act which, in part, makes it a federal crime to conduct and present otherwise legitimate cryptographic research. What does this mean? Imagine a toy secret decoder ring. Someone explains to you how to decode a secret message using that secret decoder ring. That person can be arrested for "trafficking in a product designed to circumvent copyright protection measures," if Adobe uses this simple encryption to "protect" its eBook content (which it does -- Adobe specifies ROT13 as part of its encryption standard). This is exactly what happened to Dmitry Sklyarov, when he explained a method for decrypting eBooks for legitimate, personal use. Another example is if Congress had passed a law banning the possession or sale of paper clips, hair pins and wire clothes hangers, because such insidious technologies could be used to pick locks, escape from handcuffs, or steal cars. In fact, they may as well have passed a law making it illegal to simply TALK about picking locks with hair pins. What can you do? Join Libertarian candidate Michael Badnarik (www.badnarik.org), the Ministry of Truth, and the Austin Cypherpunks on MONDAY, July 23, at the Capitol steps to show your support for Dmitry Sklyarov's plight and your opposition to the grossly unconstitutional DMCA. We expect there to be TV news representatives on the scene, so please be prepared to explain the effects of the DMCA concisely and succinctly. This rally is part of an international protest. Thousands of interested people will be showing their support around the world. For information about events in your city, please see http://www.freeskylarov.org and http://www.boycottadobe.org. Where can I learn more? Read up on the DMCA Legislative History, at: http://www.hrrc.org/html/DMCA-leg-hist.html Read the Department of Justice's press release: http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010717_doj_sklyarov_pr.html Read the Slashdot and Pigdog Journal reports, at: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/07/17/130226&mode=thread http://www.pigdog.org/auto/scary_tech/link/2155.html From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Thu Jul 19 12:53:47 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wording... References: <4527267.995472836@[10.0.1.220]><20010718164409.F7451@zork.net><87wv5523vx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us><87g0bs7smr.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <003301c1108c$89d68dd0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, Derek! > Again, you're preaching to the choir. _I_ understand the correlation > between fair-use on books and fair-use on e-books, but the media has > biased the "masses" against "hackers" through years of bad press. People in Russian mailing list made the things clear: -- Ruslan Kurepin -- We must do that Dima name willn't touch by dirt among people. People must know, that it isn't "Russian hacker taken by American secret service", that this is the same unlawlessness, that States successfully demonstrate on their own land and abroad. -- Ruslan Kurepin -- Thats why I suggest don't use word "hacker", but use words "computer security specialist", "young scientist" and "a programmer" instead. There were no "cracking", it was "security hole demonstration". Face the facts -- Dmitry didn't crack some expensive e-Book. He just demonstrate the weakness of Adobe security system, that was selling for great money ($3,000 per page). Adobe fooled its customers. There isn't even the slightest evidence, that someone used ElcomSoft program to gain unauthorised access. The only use was -- to demonstrate security flaws. If I use their program, the only use would be to read material, that is free availiable (i.e. Intel manuals) on old computers, I have. If Dmitry is sued because of cracking -- he did nothing of that kind in US. It is common practice, that people go to some country to do something, that is illegal in another country. I think, there are enough legal cases to show this. As the fact, Adobe is the site, that must be sued. Does EFF looked on idea of counter-claim (Adobe fooled customers, false advertising)? - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From robertl1 at home.com Sun Jul 22 07:30:47 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest strategy & goals Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722073034.023e92f0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> At 01:57 AM 7/22/01 -0400, you wrote: >>> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 07:37:08PM -0700, Bob La Quey wrote: >>> Wrong. Adobe and the big corporations whose greed got the DMCA passed by 99-0 >>> are the root cause of the problem. The DMCA is an important symptom but please >>> let us not confuse cause and effect here. Adobe must suffer a massive PR hit > >> Declan McCullagh wrote: >> Could not another competing "problem" be the fact that congresscritters >> are such knaves that not one voted against the DMCA? >> >> Oh, no. I suppose it would be too much to hold them to such a high standard. >> >> -Declan > > Myself, I think the fundamental question is >"What Is Property?". Having large corporations being able to >redefine property to their own advantage strikes me as the >basic problem (as has been articulated elsewhere). Complaining >that Congress has a moral responsibility to define property >in some conjectured Libertarian-type fashion, and then endlessly >repeating some variant of government-bad when they do not - well, >it seems to me that's unproductive in the extreme. Maybe it >fills column space. But in terms of analysis, in terms of having >any utility whatsoever besides preaching (maybe not even to the >choir), I just don't see it. > > Here's the key difference; When someone looks at the motives >of the corporations, they understand *WHY* the law was passed, >and that can lead to some possible insight as to how to change it. >In contrast, when someone merely proclaims their scripture as >to what the government SHOULD do, it's the net equivalent of >bible-banging. Both the courts and Congress are noticeably >unreceptive to it, and it leads to nothing besides more >bible-banging as they will remain unreceptive to it. Right, while banging on Adobe is a short term necessity, in the longer term we are looking at a law that is broken. Worse, the real driver is broken business models derived from the predigtal era, which the DMCA tries to preserve artificially. Those who are thinking creatively about the longer term need to be thinking about, sharing and creating new business models, and new businesses based on these models. As I see it, the real opportunity lies in the Free/Open Source community providing a way out of his mess. Viva la Gimp, to hell with Adobe. I do believe that for the short term we must give companies like Adobe a very big PR problem in order to defang this draconian law. Who among us will be next to feel the wrath of some multi-billion dollar corporation allied with the FBI and the DOJ? For now though I do hope that all those concerned with these issue will meet at the OSCON in San Diego next week. Our prelimenary meeting to address the immediate issue is: 8:00 PM in the Lobby Sheraton San Diego Hotel and Marina 1380 Harbor Island Drive San Diego, California 92101 This is really a natural place for old friends attending the OSCON to meet first anyway. We just hold up a few "FREE DMITRY" signs and then self-organize from there. If it is crowd then we will find a place to take it. Hotels have plenty of places for crowds. We can then do an instant plan for Monday's protest. Bob La Quey From free-sklyarov at nospam.wyrdwright.com Sun Jul 22 08:01:39 2001 From: free-sklyarov at nospam.wyrdwright.com (Barry King) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Effectiveness of the DMCA Message-ID: <200107221501.LAA23824@wyrdwright.com> >If US companies start losing business, especially those who deal in IP, then >the pressure will mount to get the DMCA changed. It won't be fast enough to >get Dimitry out of jail, but it can help to change the law and prevent other >countries from implementing a DMCA. There is more of a point here than your are making out, I think, and it's the sort of point that the corporate stooges which run this country are more willing to try on for size, God bless their shrivelled little pace-makered hearts. Because the DMCA is so vaguely worded, as soon as you go into the whole question of security challenges that take the form of software (and even a short perl script is still software) the line between what software will be prosecuted and what will not blurs. For example, in this case, a small C routine which does rot-13 may or not be itself illegal because it may have been bundled via a library into the offending software [don't laugh], or how about strcpy()? Obviously a copyright violator, that strcpy()! This gives the programmer incentive NOT to make security-checking software or to make security challenges for anything but private use. Because so few programmers have the time for this exercise, they won't do it. So if programmers are afraid to program in the U.S. or to attend conferences in the U.S. because of their programming, it means the U.S. will become increasingly uncompetitive, undergoing a brain-drain, and open to weakly secure software monocultures. (Oops, the monoculture is already here, with 34,000 viruses and rising!) By vague parallel, we saw this before, in the late 80s with the so-called "Bulgarian Virus Factory" where some really good copy-protection cracking and virus creation was going on behind the iron curtain. Now this process has a second punch, in that the DMCA is not going to protect any corporations' private interests in any case. In fact, it's counter-productive. People will simply make the software in any country, in the U.S. under another name or in another. As soon as it's the law is enforced on the software in question, the popularity of the cracking software skyrockets, and it can't be stamped out because, no matter what law you pass or what economic system you do business under, or no matter what illusion of marketing, software is still an idea, not a product. You can't legislate reality any more effectively than you can legislate morality. So, hell, if I was one of those North Koreans, or Palestinians, or Libyans, or Iraqis, or Iranians the military-industrialists are trying to get us afraid of so they can sell their next generation of arms, I would be in full support of the DMCA. It's like judo, using your opponents butt-headedness against him. BK ====== "Any bureaucracy sufficiently complex is indistinguishable from religion" - Yours Truly From declan at well.com Sun Jul 22 08:05:29 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest strategy & goals In-Reply-To: <3B5A6B4D.18A6154@sethf.com>; from sethf@sethf.com on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 01:57:33AM -0400 References: <006101c1123e$53b64110$f92b1bd8@timxp> <5.1.0.14.0.20010721192459.03131160@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> <20010721230353.C19559@cluebot.com> <3B5A6B4D.18A6154@sethf.com> Message-ID: <20010722110529.C12981@cluebot.com> On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 01:57:33AM -0400, Seth Finkelstein wrote: > that Congress has a moral responsibility to define property > in some conjectured Libertarian-type fashion, and then endlessly > repeating some variant of government-bad when they do not - well, > it seems to me that's unproductive in the extreme. Maybe it > fills column space. But in terms of analysis, in terms of having > any utility whatsoever besides preaching (maybe not even to the > choir), I just don't see it. The above is silly to the point of verging on nutty. Congress has a responsibility to act in the best interests of all Americans, not just special interest groups. Legislators should enact new federal criminal laws as a last resort, not just because of some aggrieved lobbying by the software industry. And members of Congress should be held accountable for their actions, at the ballot box when the time comes, and before that with demonstrations, if necessary. This is just common sense. -Declan From drumz at best.com Sun Jul 22 08:04:57 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Alan Cox reaction In-Reply-To: from Xcott Craver at "Jul 22, 1 08:04:53 am" Message-ID: <200107221504.IAA00923@shell3.ba.best.com> > So, are there other examples of people leaving the US, or moving > conferences outside the US, or publicly pondering as much, over > free speech issues? We have the Scientology "Cruise" missile bit, > and Alan Cox, and Ross Anderson's comments to the press after IHW. Well, while some might not consider it a speech issue, at least two high-profile medical marijuana activists, Renee Boje (www.reneeboje.com) and Steve Kubby (www.kubby.com), are currently in Canada as a result of action being taken against them by the U.S. and the state of California, respectively. Boje, who is currently fighting extradition, is a friend of cancer patients Todd McCormick (www.toddmccormick.org, currently serving five years on Terminal Island) and Peter McWilliams (www.forahero.com, the well-known Libertarian author who died choking on his own last year after the federal government denied him his medicine). Kubby was supposed to report to jail on Friday, which would likely be a death sentence for him since the state is unable to provide him with MJ for his adrenal cancer during his sentence. In reality, I consider the McWilliams and Kubby cases in particular to be very much a speech issue. McWilliams undoubtedly raised the ire of the feds due to the influence of his books, including one book on MMJ specifically that was unfinished at the time of his death. And Kubby has pissed off certain California officials in a big way due to his key role in the passage of the Compassionate Use Act in 1996, not to mention his run for Governor last year. Anyone contemplating writing a story on people who have fled to Canada to escape the "land of the free" definitely should not fail to note the Boje and Kubby cases. Ethan -- "He that will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not, is a slave." -- William Drummond From secretcodes at mypad.com Sun Jul 22 08:22:42 2001 From: secretcodes at mypad.com (secretcodes@mypad.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What is really wrong about the skylarov arrest? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We all are on this list because we're stunned by the arrest of a businessman and programmer -- the charging of a foreign programmer with US laws -- only because of writing a program. But, what is behind this arrest? It stands as a symbol for the many things that are wrong today in America. It stands a symbol for an era of politicians issuing arbitrary laws that enlarge government control and create victimless crimes, and often in the name of a "public good". The point of valid law is the protection from initiatory force or fraud. Restrictions which are not intended to protect the individual are arbitrary, exploitable, dishonest. The DMCA criminalizes the creation and distribution of a program, a piece of free speech, a piece of information. Free information itself never involves fraud or force. Creation of information is always a victimless crime, unwelcomed by the corporations like Adobe, and organizations like MPAA/RIAA that try to pressure the market through political power and information control, perhaps. However, such actions never involve fraud or force against a party or victim. A Constitution for Freedom Preamble The purpose of human life is to live happily. The function of government is to guarantee those conditions that allow individuals to fulfill their purpose. Those conditions can be guaranteed through a constitution that forbids the use of initiatory force, fraud, or coercion by any person or group against any individual: * * * Article 1 No person, group of persons or government may initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against any individual's self or property. Article 2 Force may be morally and legally used only in self-defense against those who violate Article 1. Article 3 No exceptions shall exist for Articles 1 and 2. * * * The Constitution rests on six axioms: 1. Values exist only relative to life. 2. Whatever benefits a living organism is a value to that organism. Whatever harms a living organism is a disvalue to that organism. 3. The basic value against which all values are measured is the conscious individual. 4. Morals relate only to conscious individuals. 5. Immoral actions arise from individuals choosing to harm others through force, fraud, deception, coercion -- or from individuals choosing to usurp, attack, or destroy values earned by others. 6. Moral actions arise from individuals choosing to benefit others by competitively producing values for them. ______________________ http://secretcodes.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From pedro at tastytronic.net Sun Jul 22 08:33:58 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Protest, Monday the 23rd at 11:00AM Message-ID: <20010722103358.N8747@tastytronic.net> This is not new news, but a notice for everyone and any newcomers that Chicago's protest is on for 11AM tomorrow, downtown at the Dirksen Federal Building. All relevant information including press releases, protest instructions, and posters for the Chicago protest are available at: http://ufo.chicago.il.us/free-sklyarov/ or http://two-bit.northpark.edu/free-sklyarov/ (a mirror) News media have been faxed, and people are preparing signs, etc. today. Hope to see you there! pedro -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- FBI has imprisioned a Russian software engineer for promoting and teaching the concept of "fair use". Read more: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From robertl1 at home.com Sun Jul 22 08:36:10 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The TV Interview Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722082822.023b2070@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> This interview occurred last Wednesday. Sklyarov spoke exclusively to Las Vegas News 13's Carolyn Jefferson from the North Las Vegas jail where he's awaiting transfer to a federal facility in California. http://www.ktnv.com/news/jul01/top0718.asp Drop down to the banner "WATCH OUR STORIES" and chose to see a streaming video of Dmitry. Perhaps someone could provide a transcript for the aurally impaired. Bob La Quey From wild at eff.org Sun Jul 22 08:41:35 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fact Sheet. In-Reply-To: <3B5B5BF5.6575.C6DA411@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722084112.01fc3738@pop3.norton.antivirus> Actually it's the letter that EFF sent to Adobe. At 11:04 PM 7/22/2001 +1200, Daniel Richards wrote: >l) Adobe has agreed to talk to the EFF, BUT neither Adobe nor the >EFF are releasing the letter that Adobe sent to the EFF. From paul at paultopia.net Sun Jul 22 08:52:09 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fact Sheet. In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722084112.01fc3738@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <3B5B5BF5.6575.C6DA411@localhost> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722095118.031b08f0@mail.paultopia.net> I'd ask if the EFF has its own agenda in this, but everyone knows the answer to that. Thus, my alternative question is: "What's the EFF's agenda in this? -P At 09:41 AM 7/22/01, Will Doherty wrote: >Actually it's the letter that EFF sent to Adobe. > >At 11:04 PM 7/22/2001 +1200, Daniel Richards wrote: >>l) Adobe has agreed to talk to the EFF, BUT neither Adobe nor the >>EFF are releasing the letter that Adobe sent to the EFF. -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From wild at eff.org Sun Jul 22 09:08:30 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fact Sheet. In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722095118.031b08f0@mail.paultopia.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722084112.01fc3738@pop3.norton.antivirus> <3B5B5BF5.6575.C6DA411@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722090138.03a66fc8@pop3.norton.antivirus> The EFF agenda, as I understand it in this situation, is to: 1) Get Dmitry Sklarov out of jail since we believe he has not committed any offense that should keep him there. 2) Defend, or assist in the defense of anyone prosecuted under provisions of the DMCA that are interpreted to limit unfairly the free speech protections guaranteed under the US Constitution and the fair use protections traditional under US copyright law. 3) Reform the DMCA so that it cannot be used to prosecute people for expressing (including coding) their free speech rights guaranteed under the US Constitution and fair use rights traditional under US copyright law. Free Dmitry and Reform the DMCA, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 09:52 AM 7/22/2001 -0600, Paul Gowder wrote: >I'd ask if the EFF has its own agenda in this, but everyone knows the >answer to that. Thus, my alternative question is: "What's the EFF's >agenda in this? > -P > >At 09:41 AM 7/22/01, Will Doherty wrote: >>Actually it's the letter that EFF sent to Adobe. >> >>At 11:04 PM 7/22/2001 +1200, Daniel Richards wrote: >>>l) Adobe has agreed to talk to the EFF, BUT neither Adobe nor the >>>EFF are releasing the letter that Adobe sent to the EFF. > > >-- > -Paul Gowder > >"It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." > - Homer Simpson > > > >-- > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Sun Jul 22 09:03:28 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation References: <200107212018.AA89719190@portalofevil.com> Message-ID: <3B5AF950.34802F3A@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Actually, people are concerned, by and large. They're just too sliced and diced to come together without leadership. Seth Johnson Cousin Willie wrote: > > Previously, "Izel Sulam" wrote: > > >I have read the arguments worded in babyspeak that are meant > >to get through to the unwashed masses. > [...] > >There is too much [...] here for sheeple to handle. > [...] > >The sheeple eat it up. > [...] > >Here is the argument, in babyspeak. From free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org Sun Jul 22 09:33:31 2001 From: free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org (free-sklyarov@effector.xenoclast.org) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: "best we can hope for from Adobe" Message-ID: > As I posted before (or, maybe it was a private response to somebody > from this list?), I know some people from Adobe. And very decent > guys, BTW, it would be unfair to punish them. They feel really > troubled by all this, and they said they would love to get Dmitry > work there. Another thing, how much influence they have, being just > computer scientists. Definitely, they have some. To be honest, I think the chances of Dmitry wanting to work for Adobe after this incident are zero. If they had just had me arrested, I wouldn't be buying their products again, let alone working for them. Julian -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Sun Jul 22 09:35:07 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Updated logos In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722090138.03a66fc8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Hi, I updated the logos at www.math.niu.edu/~caj/adobe.html, anti- aliasing them, etc, as well as providing links to larger, higher- resolution versions. They are all in JPEG format. As always, I am open to suggestions for other ideas. -S From free-sklyarov at onethumb.com Sun Jul 22 09:44:45 2001 From: free-sklyarov at onethumb.com (Don MacAskill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FreeDmitry.org & FreeSklyarov.com are UP! Message-ID: <03c501c112cd$9d6dd0e0$637ba8c0@vunicorn> Nothing startlingly new at those domains, but I hoped that the media (and the average joe) might find it easy to find and learn about our efforts. I'll try to keep it as up-to-date as I can with the most appropriate links (BoycottAdobe, Touretzky's page, etc). Please let me know if I'm missing anything of major importance. Slashdot-like story threads are also available there for anyone who wants to use them. If anyone can think of a good use for them and the cause, please don't hesitate.... FYI, the URLs that point to this page are: freedmitry.com freedmitry.net freedmitry.org freesklyarov.com freesklyarov.net If anyone else has an important page regarding Dmitry, but it's buried in some ugly free-hosting URL, I might be able to loan one of these out. Contact me. I'll see everyone in San Jose on Monday! Free Dmitry! Don -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010722/64f2aec4/attachment.html From misha2 at urbis.net.il Sun Jul 22 10:48:19 2001 From: misha2 at urbis.net.il (Michael Kupershtein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What is really wrong about the skylarov arrest? References: Message-ID: <3B5B11E3.4377204F@urbis.net.il> secretcodes@mypad.com wrote: > We all are on this list because we're stunned by the arrest > of a businessman and programmer -- the charging of a foreign > programmer with US laws -- only because of writing a program. > > But, what is behind this arrest? It stands as a symbol for > the many things that are wrong today in America. > > It stands a symbol for an era of politicians issuing arbitrary > laws that enlarge government control and create victimless > crimes, and often in the name of a "public good". > > The point of valid law is the protection from initiatory force > or fraud. Restrictions which are not intended to protect the > individual are arbitrary, exploitable, dishonest. > > The DMCA criminalizes the creation and distribution of a program, > a piece of free speech, a piece of information. Free information itself > never involves fraud or force. Creation of information is always a victimless > crime, unwelcomed by the corporations like Adobe, and organizations like > MPAA/RIAA that try to pressure the market through political power and > information control, perhaps. However, such actions never involve fraud > or force against a party or victim. > So far, so good. Very nice, libertarian, and all. > > A Constitution for Freedom > > Preamble > > The purpose of human life is to live happily. > The function of government is to guarantee those conditions that allow > individuals to fulfill their purpose. Those conditions can be > guaranteed through a constitution that forbids the use of initiatory > force, fraud, or coercion by any person or group against any individual: > > * * * > > Article 1 > > No person, group of persons or government may initiate force, threat > of force, or fraud against any individual's self or property. > > Article 2 > > Force may be morally and legally used only in self-defense against > those who violate Article 1. > > Article 3 > > No exceptions shall exist for Articles 1 and 2. > > * * * > Yup. That's what a (libertarian) constitution should look like. > > The Constitution rests on six axioms: > 1. Values exist only relative to life. > 2. Whatever benefits a living organism is a value to that organism. > Whatever harms a living organism is a disvalue to that organism. > 3. The basic value against which all values are measured is the > conscious individual. > 4. Morals relate only to conscious individuals. > 5. Immoral actions arise from individuals choosing to harm others > through force, fraud, deception, coercion -- or from individuals > choosing to usurp, attack, or destroy values earned by others. And here arises a problem. Because the way you define property rights is very very unnerving. `Usurping or attacking...values earned by others`, can only be taken as defining theft or property harm. But, how did you define property (= value)? You defined it as `Whatever benefits a living organism is a value to that organism.`. However, isn't it true that Adobe's intellectual property a value to Adobe's shareholders? BTW, I'm playing devil's advocate here. I oppose many existing forms of intellectual property. But, back to the point - that means anything which harms Adobe's `Intellectual property` constitutes either fraud or initiation of force, and can be responsded to by force. So, the constitution you produced fails just as poorly as the current system. The actual articles of the constitution aren't the problem of couse, your definition of values is. It needs to be as strict and exclusive, not inclusive, like the rest of the constitution. > > 6. Moral actions arise from individuals choosing to benefit others by > competitively producing values for them. And this, dear sir, is creeping socialism. Get rid of it, fix the property problem, and you'll have an acceptable document. Sincerely, Michael. From free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org Sun Jul 22 09:56:11 2001 From: free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org (Julian T. J. Midgley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote: > A mild addition: What happens when a company has decent (or at least > better than crappy) products, security broken, DMCA prosecution happens? If the security is broken, then by definition it was crappy (or at least, relatively poor). Furthermore, if it can be broken, it is in the best interests of those whose works are published under these protection mechanism for them to be made aware that it has been broken, so that they know not to trust it any further. Therefore, the line of reasoning still works. (There is a separate issue here, which is that it is arguable that any copyright protection mechanism that doesn't rely on tamperproof hardware is insecure.) Just because SSH is generally quite good, doesn't mean that those who find bugs in it (as someone did recently, see bugtraq or slashdot) should be prosecuted for 'breaking it'. The same argument applies to copyright protection mechanisms, independent of whether or not you think they are a good idea. Just out of interest, what makes something a 'copyright protection mechanism'? If I transfer the text of my book from computer A to computer B using SSH, to prevent it being copied in useful form by anyone sniffing packets in between A and B (and hence preventing those same people from abusing my copyright), does this turn SSH into a copyright protection mechanism? If it does, does the SSH company have the right to prosecute people in the states who point out bugs in SSH? Do we all feel better off knowing that we can't discuss the state of the security protocols we use because we might be prosecuted for "circumventing copyright protection mechanisms"? Julian -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Jul 22 09:59:44 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] http://www.adobe.com/support/ebookrdrfaq.html In-Reply-To: <3B5AAFFB.31ECCC3B@sheffield.ac.uk>; from a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 11:50:35AM +0100 References: <3B5AAFFB.31ECCC3B@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20010722095944.D20817@zork.net> Anton Chterenlikht writes: > Guys, > > Try to go to > http://www.adobe.com/support/ebookrdrfaq.html > > and click on: > > How can I be sure buying from the Adobe Bookstore is safe? > > There is NO answer!!!!!!!!!! I think people should be careful with this "safe"/"secure" business. In traditional computer security, the interests of the users are normally aligned with the interests of the system administrator or network administrator (or two users are communicating with one another, and their interests are aligned with one another). In DRM, the interests of the users are _not_ aligned with the interests of those who are designing the system; the principal adversary in this security model _is the customer_. Thus, if consumers speak of DRM systems being "secure", they should realize that this means _secure against them_, _secure in preventing what they want to do_. A "safe" eBook is an eBook that blind users can't have read aloud to them, if the publisher didn't want it read aloud. Let me say that again: A "secure" eBook is an eBook that blind users can't have read aloud to them, if the publisher didn't want it read aloud. This gets back to how DRM security engineering is totally different from ordinary security engineering. In ordinary security engineering, you don't give out your keys to your adversary, because you aren't trying to share information with your adversary. Once again: if I send you encrypted e-mail, I expect that you can decrypt it; it's not considered "breaking" the security of the system when you decrypt and view my message. If a publisher sends you encrypted content in a DRM system, the publisher considers it "breaking" the security when you decrypt it, because you are the adversary. Yet your computer has to have software to decrypt the content, if you are going to view it at all. Therefore Sklyarov did show that the system was insecure _for the purpose for which it was designed_, from the point of view of Adobe and of publishers. However, from the point of view of consumers, eBooks became more useful because they could now once again make the ordinary uses they expect to be able to make with PDF files. Per Gilmore's "What's Wrong With Copy Protection", there is no reason that end-users should want the "security" for which some naive publishers have been hoping. This point is common-place on the dvd-discuss list (there is no reason consumers should respect the "region coding" system, which has no direct support in law but was honored by all the technologies approved by the DVD publishers) but I don't know that it's sunk in yet over here. This is difficult to explain, but it's why there is no reason to associate Sklyarov with the "hackers" who read your e-mail or steal your credit card numbers or whatever. They find insecurities where the public expects security. Sklyarov found insecurities where only a few publishers hoped for security. This is somewhat different from Izel Sulam's arguments and I don't know the best way to reconcile the two. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From sethf at sethf.com Sun Jul 22 10:01:56 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest strategy & goals References: <006101c1123e$53b64110$f92b1bd8@timxp> <5.1.0.14.0.20010721192459.03131160@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> <20010721230353.C19559@cluebot.com> <3B5A6B4D.18A6154@sethf.com> <20010722110529.C12981@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <3B5B0704.D413A174@sethf.com> > On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 01:57:33AM -0400, Seth Finkelstein wrote: > > that Congress has a moral responsibility to define property > > in some conjectured Libertarian-type fashion, and then endlessly > > repeating some variant of government-bad when they do not - well, > > it seems to me that's unproductive in the extreme. Maybe it > > fills column space. But in terms of analysis, in terms of having > > any utility whatsoever besides preaching (maybe not even to the > > choir), I just don't see it. Declan McCullagh wrote: > The above is silly to the point of verging on nutty. > > Congress has a responsibility to act in the best interests of all > Americans, not just special interest groups. Legislators should enact > new federal criminal laws as a last resort, not just because of some > aggrieved lobbying by the software industry. "And I say unto you, that it is written in the Book of Cato, that the DMCA is a sin against the commandments of the RAND." In case you missed it, when the DMCA was passed, there was much claim that it was in the best interests of Americans. And remember, it was viewed as protecting *property* *rights*. You have demonstrated my point: An endless repeating of government-bad has no intellectual utility. It's merely the re-iteration of scripture. http://www.thomas-paine.com/tpnha/archive/AOR1.html "But admitting, for the sake of a case, that something has been revealed to a certain person, and not revealed to any other person, it is revelation to that person only. When he tells it to a second person, a second to a third, a third to a fourth, and so on, it ceases to be a revelation to all those persons. It is revelation to the first person only, and hearsay to every other, and, consequently, they are not obliged to believe it." Thomas Paine, "The Age Of Reason" > And members of Congress should be held accountable for their actions, > at the ballot box when the time comes, and before that with > demonstrations, if necessary. > > This is just common sense. You and what million-dollar campaign contribution? A refusal to analyze the means and methods of business interests here leads to statements that are at best empty rhetoric, and at worst destructive cult proselytizing. -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com From nick at zork.net Sun Jul 22 10:00:46 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The meaning of Adobe Message-ID: <20010722100046.E27349@zork.net> So I've seen a number of jokes on Adobe's name posted here, but I realized that many people, especially those not in the US, don't know where they got it. In the Southern parts of the SouthWestern US desert lands (and in parts of Mexico), the natives build their houses from clay and mud. This mixture, which is baked in the hot desert sun to dry, is called adobe. Most adobe buildings are made from bricks that have been sun-baked separately. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From salgak at speakeasy.net Sun Jul 22 10:13:50 2001 From: salgak at speakeasy.net (Keith A. Glass (home email)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest strategy & goals In-Reply-To: <20010722110529.C12981@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <000601c112d1$adbe9de0$0201a8c0@speakeasy.org> >Congress has a responsibility to act in the best interests of all >Americans, not just special interest groups. Legislators should enact >new federal criminal laws as a last resort, not just because of some >aggrieved lobbying by the software industry. And members of Congress >should be held accountable for their actions, at the ballot box when >the time comes, and before that with demonstrations, if necessary. Declan, Declan, Declan... You know as well as I do that the American electorate, as a whole, has the attention span of a gnat on speed. . . I remember similar calls after the CDA, and were the politicians turned out ? No. In fact, I asked Cong. Tom Davis about his vote, and the gist of the reply was "Yes, I know the CDA portion is blatantly Unconstitutional, and we expect the courts to throw it out before it even takes effect". And as Congresscritters go, Tom is fairly tech-savvy. The current political system has evolved that big corps and lobbies have the power unless the public uproar is overwhelming. >This is just common sense. And just where is a new Thomas Paine, when the net really needs him ??? From mrmanley at home.com Sun Jul 22 10:27:12 2001 From: mrmanley at home.com (Monty R Manley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? Message-ID: <20010722122712.2c9a6fc8.mrmanley@home.com> I know this has been posted already, but I must have missed it. What time is the EFF meeting with Adobe? Is EFF going to post continuous updates, or simply post a summary once the meeting is completed? Just curious, Monty Manley From wild at eff.org Sun Jul 22 10:35:49 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: <20010722122712.2c9a6fc8.mrmanley@home.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722103434.03a3fe08@pop3.norton.antivirus> We will post a summary once the meeting is complete unless the people at the meeting decide otherwise. It is difficult to predict when the meeting will end... we hope before noon. Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 12:27 PM 7/22/2001 -0500, Monty R Manley wrote: >I know this has been posted already, but I must have missed it. What time >is the EFF meeting with Adobe? Is EFF going to post continuous updates, >or simply post a summary once the meeting is completed? > >Just curious, > >Monty Manley > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From izel at sulam.com Sun Jul 22 10:41:12 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation Message-ID: It has been said that framing this case as a consumer rights issue, rather than a DMCA issue, avoids the real problem - which is the DMCA itself. It has been said that the next time a "decent" product is shown to be flawed, the same problem will revisit. It has been said in reply that a decent product cannot also be a flawed product at the same time, by definition. If flaws have been shown, the product was not decent to begin with. I tend to agree with this. I also tend to think that the next DMCA violation will happen overseas, no one involved will step inside US borders, they will stand outside and point at us and laugh at us, at our silly laws and at the woeful state of what passes for encryption in our commercial products. The US government will be forced to take the embarrassing act of censoring information off the internet on a national scale, Taliban style. This will be delicious, and this sort of Reductio Ad Absurdum is what will get the DMCA repealed. I would like to repeat very strongly what my suggestions are for statements to the press tomorrow. Statements to the press should stress that this is a consumer rights issue. Adobe makes a very expensive line of crypto products, and claims that these are secure, and they are not, and this is a fraud and a sham, and Dmitry Sklyarov brought this to the attention of the world, and now Adobe is getting him illegally arrested rather than imporving their products. Adobe is a profit-hungry corporation that has acted in bad faith, fradulently misrepresented the capabilities of its flawed products, and continues to take steps intended to do nothing but salvage its PR image, damn product quality, damn consumer satisfaction. That sort of thing should get a bunch of shareholder and customer class action lawsuits going, and deservedly so. What would happen if auto makers had Ralph Nader illegally arrested? Where would we be then? Since when has consumer advocacy been punishable by jailtime? Think along these lines. Make statements along these lines to the press, and to curious passersby who ask. Consumer advocacy is Right and Good and Tastes Like Mom's Apple Pie. It is alright to also add that the DMCA is a controversial law, but as I pointed out before, I do not believe that this is a battleground on which we can defeat the DMCA. We must concentrate on Freeing Sklyarov here. Do not spend the majority of your time discussing what the DMCA is or does or why it stinks. You will lose the interest and favor of the precarious attention span of your audience. We must spend our energies battling the DMCA in a more advantageous case, more appealing to the public's sense of What is Right and Good and Tastes Like Mom's Apple Pie (such as the Felten case). Comments, suggestions welcome. - izel P.S. Find slogan suggestions at http://izel.sulam.com/boycottadobe/slogans.html From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Jul 22 10:44:44 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: ; from izel@sulam.com on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 01:41:12PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010722104444.E20817@zork.net> Izel Sulam writes: > I would like to repeat very strongly what my suggestions are for statements > to the press tomorrow. Statements to the press should stress that this is a > consumer rights issue. Adobe makes a very expensive line of crypto > products, and claims that these are secure, and they are not, and this is a > fraud and a sham, and Dmitry Sklyarov brought this to the attention of the > world, and now Adobe is getting him illegally arrested rather than > imporving their products. However, "improving" their products would harm consumer rights even more. Consumers aren't the ones who want "security" that tries to prevent ordinary uses of digital media. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From abuch at math.mit.edu Sun Jul 22 10:39:39 2001 From: abuch at math.mit.edu (Anders S. Buch) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time to protest!! Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I apologize for using these mailing lists for politics; however, I think that an ongoing case is highly relevant for the future of mathematics in the United States. The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) from 1998 makes it a crime to "manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in" devices which can be used to circumvent copyright protection technology. Why is this relevant to mathematicians? Because mathematics is an excellent tool for circumventing copy protection schemes, which are usually based on encryption techniques. It is NOT a mere matter of philosophy that the DMCA is threatening mathematicians. A team of cryptographers led by Professor Felten at Princeton recently withdrew a planned talk (and proceedings paper) at the 4th International Information Hiding Workshop in Pittsburgh after being threatened with litigation under the DMCA by the Recording Industry Association of America. (See http://www.cs.princeton.edu/sip/sdmi/) Even more frightening, last Monday Ph.D. student Dmitry Sklyarov from the Computer Science Department at Moscow University was arrested after giving his talk "eBook Security: Theory and practice" at the DefCon conference in Las Vegas. Sklyarov is accused of giving this talk and for writing a program which breaks the encryption of Adobe e-books. His work on e-book security is part of his Ph.D. dissertation. (See http://www.freesklyarov.org/ and http://www.boycottadobe.org/) Tomorrow, Monday 7/23, protests are planned in several major US cities, including Boston. The protest in Boston will start at 12:00 noon, the meeting place is outside the Park Street Station exit. See http://freesklyarov.org/boston/ for more information. I will be there, and I strongly encourage any of you who agree that the DMCA is an unfortunate law to come as well!! Here are some more reasons why the DMCA is bad for mathematics: 1) The DMCA challenges our right to publish our work. Suppose you did the impossible and found and published an easy way to break RSA encryption. This would likely land you a few offers of chair positions at top universities. However, if just one company has used RSA in a copy-protection scheme, then your discovery would be a circumvention tool, and you might end up in prison. Insane??? 2) Mathematics in the US benefits from being able to attract the best people from all over the world with a high academic level and an advantageous economy. However, after the recent arrest of Sklyarov, cryptographers might want to think twice before coming to the US. Alan Cox (UK), the top Linux kernel programmer after Linus Torvalds, has recently resigned from the Usenix committee, citing that Usenix meetings take place in the US which is no longer a safe place for foreign programmers. (See http://lwn.net/daily/alan-quits-als.php3) 3) The DMCA is also a tool that publishers could use to make access to electronic Mathematics journals even tighter than it is now. The very program that Sklyarov is accused of defeating, Adobe eBook Reader, only allows the owner of an eBook to read his book on the screen of the computer he purchased it from. It is not possible to make printouts, backup copies, move the book to a laptop, etc. without first breaking the security (Rot-13!!) of Adobe's program. And the DMCA makes this illegal. I hope to see a lot of you tomorrow, outside Park Street Station at 12:00 noon!!! Sincerely, Anders Buch From esper at sherohman.org Sun Jul 22 10:45:51 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: <200107212018.AA89719190@portalofevil.com>; from wilhelm_quatsch@portalofevil.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 08:18:23PM -0400 References: <200107212018.AA89719190@portalofevil.com> Message-ID: <20010722124550.B17293@sherohman.org> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 08:18:23PM -0400, Cousin Willie wrote: > How does it help the cause to have a bunch of "advocates" charge out half-cocked saying "you're too dumb to understand what's going on here, but let me provide this simple analogy", and then proceeding to mumble something about cereal boxes and secret decoders, or books in glass boxes, or Firestone tires? It seems that you're walking a fine line, risking that the public draws some undesirable conclusions: You're right. Coming up with a way to explain the case to random passers-by in 30 seconds or less which neither relies upon previous knowledge nor comes off as condescending is, to say the least, difficult, especially when it deals with something as esoteric as crypto. If you think you can do a better job of it, please do. A good capsule summary of the situation would do us all a lot of good. -- With the arrest of Dimitry Sklyarov it has become apparent that it is not safe for non US software engineers to visit the United States. - Alan Cox "To prevent unauthorized reading..." - Adobe eBook reader license From free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org Sun Jul 22 10:58:40 2001 From: free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org (Julian T. J. Midgley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: <20010722104444.E20817@zork.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Seth David Schoen wrote: > Izel Sulam writes: > > > I would like to repeat very strongly what my suggestions are for statements > > to the press tomorrow. Statements to the press should stress that this is a > > consumer rights issue. Adobe makes a very expensive line of crypto > > products, and claims that these are secure, and they are not, and this is a > > fraud and a sham, and Dmitry Sklyarov brought this to the attention of the > > world, and now Adobe is getting him illegally arrested rather than > > imporving their products. > > However, "improving" their products would harm consumer rights even > more. Consumers aren't the ones who want "security" that tries to > prevent ordinary uses of digital media. This is true, but is to a certain extent a separate issue. Irrespective of whether or not consumers want security that prevents fair use, copyright holders might want products that try to prevent abuse of copyright. I don't believe that the latter is an unreasonable desire, but I very strongly believe that it is in everyone's interests (especially the copyright holders) for flaws in products designed to prevent copyright abuse to be able to be discussed publically without anyone being at risk of imprisonment or lawsuit. It is conceivable that it is possible to design a product to prevent copyright abuse that does not simultaneously prevent fair use. In many ways, though, the clauses of the DMCA targeted at those defeating copyright protection mechanisms are *absolutely unnecessary*. It is already an offence to abuse copyright by making illegal copies. Copyright holders can sue those who abuse their copyright, without any need whatever for a separate law allowing them to sue (or have subject to criminal prosecution) those who defeat their copyright protection mechanisms. It is not an offence to manufacture crowbars (that can be used to break into people's houses) nor does it need to be, since it is an offence to break into people's houses. Similarly, it should not be an offence to sell products which defeat copyright protection mechanisms (since there can be perfectly legitimate uses of such products - qv. the software that can de-click the new protected CDs[0], for example), since it is sufficient to be able to prosecute those who make illegal copies. The anti-circumvention sections of the DMCA are simply not required, and should be struck out. Doing so would neither harm the interests of copyright holders, nor those of the general public. Julian [0] This same software can also be used for cleaning up tracks copied from vinyl records or analogue tapes - both perfectly legitimate uses (provided the person concerned has the right to make such copies). -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F From izel at sulam.com Sun Jul 22 11:03:59 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation Message-ID: Seth David Schoen schoen@loyalty.org wrote: >However, "improving" their products would harm consumer rights even >more. Consumers aren't the ones who want "security" that tries to >prevent ordinary uses of digital media. This is the fun part. There is nothing that Adobe can do to make a pdf-based ebook system secure. pdf was originally designed to be an open format. The whole security kit'n'kaboodle piggybacks on what is essentially an unencrypted pdf somewhere in memory. As long as you are reading this "ebook" on hardware that is not tamperproof, you just peek into the RAM and pull out the unencrypted pdf that is sitting there. So, on the one hand, Adobe is selling an unsafe security solution, and on the other hand, as long as they insist on building their ebook strategy on the pdf standard, they can never make it safe. So I'm not worried about consumer rights being taken away anytime soon. I do understand your main concern, that corporate attitudes need to be changed, and consumers need to be educated about encryption and fair use, and congresscritters need to be convinced of the value of the freedoms of the citizens of this country above the whims of stinking rich special interest groups. (Take a breath now, that was a long sentence.) That is a tall order. The strategy that I am proposing aims for less and is more likely to achieve it than other strategies. The strategy that I am proposing aims to Free Sklyarov and ruin Adobe's PR image. The rest of the domino pieces fall where they may. Thanks. - izel From harrold at sage.che.pitt.edu Sun Jul 22 11:03:01 2001 From: harrold at sage.che.pitt.edu (harrold@sage.che.pitt.edu) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: <20010722104444.E20817@zork.net> Message-ID: Sometime in July Seth David Schoen assaulted keyboard and produced... |Izel Sulam writes: | |> I would like to repeat very strongly what my suggestions are for statements |> to the press tomorrow. Statements to the press should stress that this is a |> consumer rights issue. Adobe makes a very expensive line of crypto |> products, and claims that these are secure, and they are not, and this is a |> fraud and a sham, and Dmitry Sklyarov brought this to the attention of the |> world, and now Adobe is getting him illegally arrested rather than |> imporving their products. | |However, "improving" their products would harm consumer rights even |more. Consumers aren't the ones who want "security" that tries to |prevent ordinary uses of digital media. ahh.. it would help adobe's consumers (those seeking to protect their work with adobes ebook stuff-call them C1). you are speaking of people who consume products made by adobe's consumers (call the people reading the ebooks C2). izel is saying that improving adobe's products would help C1 not C2. -- john From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Jul 22 11:04:28 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: ; from harrold@sage.che.pitt.edu on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 02:03:01PM -0400 References: <20010722104444.E20817@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010722110428.F20817@zork.net> harrold@sage.che.pitt.edu writes: > ahh.. it would help adobe's consumers (those seeking to protect their work > with adobes ebook stuff-call them C1). you are speaking of people who > consume products made by adobe's consumers (call the people reading the > ebooks C2). izel is saying that improving adobe's products would help C1 > not C2. Yes, that's right. For eBooks it seems that Adobe's customers are not the general public, although the general public commonly buys other Adobe products. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From esper at sherohman.org Sun Jul 22 11:04:39 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Legal technicality question In-Reply-To: <20010722020436.22015.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com>; from saint_sam@yahoo.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 07:04:36PM -0700 References: <20010722020436.22015.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010722130439.C17293@sherohman.org> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 07:04:36PM -0700, Sam Gray wrote: > Is personal use of a circumvention device illegal under the DMCA, or is it > merely "trafficking" that's now a crime? In other words, if I write my own > software to rip the content from an eBook to exercise my fair use rights, > can legal action be taken against me? Or is it just when I try to tell > someone else about it? IANAL, etc, but my understanding is that, while they couldn't manage to ban the _use_ of a circumvention device, creation or aquisition of a circumvention device were both banned. So you're perfectly free to use such a program, but you can't get one without violating DMCA. -- With the arrest of Dimitry Sklyarov it has become apparent that it is not safe for non US software engineers to visit the United States. - Alan Cox "To prevent unauthorized reading..." - Adobe eBook reader license From andrea at gravitt.org Sun Jul 22 11:05:44 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA discussion, possible flyer material, etc Message-ID: Partly in reply to a media inquiry (which I'm sure all the other listed organizers got as well) I wrote this. It probably needs more basics on copyright and a few less big words to be used for a general handout, but feel free to use any or all of it as you see fit. I don't even care if you credit me or not. If you would like to, my complete name is Andrea Longo and I live in Decatur, Georgia (US). I am the contact person for Atlanta. The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) added several provisions to existing copyright law that were intended to balance the need for content providers and copyright holders to protect their works and the public to have reasonable access to them under the existing provisions for Fair Use. In the context of digital media, Fair Use also includes such things as allowing an individual to convert a work into another form for personal use, in the same way that one might copy a CD to a cassette to be able to listen to it on a portable device, but not to distribute those copies. There have been legal challenges to this "format shifting" but so far it has been held as permissible. So I have the legal right to take a CD that I purchase and convert it to an MP3 file for use on my portable player. The tool that Mr. Sklyarov and his company produced allowed the legitimate eBook user to do much the same, convert the encrypted eBook format into the more widely used PDF format. This allows the user to print a copy for later reading, use a "screen reader" device to speak it aloud for the visually impaired, or view it on a computer system or a device that does not have an eBook reader, like a Palm PDA or Linux computer. None of these things involve distributing unauthorized copies to other people, but the technology required to allow these legitimate uses must necessarily also make it possible to distribute unauthorized copies if the user chooses to do so. They would not work at all if they did not also have that possibility. Adobe's assertion that Elcomsoft's software is a "Digital Burglar Tool" ignores the fact that any tool may be used for improper purposes and it is the user, not the tool, who decides. I may use a crowbar for breaking into someone's home, or as a legitimate demolition tool. I might even choose to use it to break into my own home, and doing so is not illegal. At the time, organizations like EFF noted that the "Circumvention Device" provisions concerned not behavior, but technology, and could be used to prohibit non-infringing uses or legitimate security research. The DMCA does contain exceptions, but still legitimate users face the threat of (or in several cases, actual) legal action against them for merely discussing the weaknesses of a secure system based on the interpretation of how the exceptions apply. Although there are legitimate Fair Use reasons that someone may wish to copy a copy protected work, the DMCA prohibits building any tools that might actually allow it to be done. The corporate interests lobbying for these provisions brushed aside the concerns that they would be used to restrict legitimate use, and the bill was made law with little fanfare. But there soon were several examples of just that. Earlier this year, a group of professors was bullied with threats of a civil suit into withdrawing a paper from a technical conference because it was embarrassing for certain digital music organizations. The company that created the security system, and the industry group that was attempting to make it a standard, claimed that by publishing the paper detailing it's weaknesses, the authors would provide the means by which a third party could create a tool to make unauthorized copies of protected material, and that the researchers would then be liable for any resulting infringement. In another case, an on-line publisher was prohibited from publishing, or even linking to, the source code for a DVD decryption tool on their web site as a part of a discussion on DVD content security. The significance of the Sklyarov case is that not only have there been civil lawsuits, now there has been an actual arrest under the criminal provisions, of a foreign national, for work done for his employer, in a country where it is legal to do so. Computer security researchers, as a part of their work, poke and prod and test the capabilities of computer systems. They talk about it, they write papers about it, and they create software tools to do it. This is how the field advances, and how they are able to produce more and better security systems. Already, a respected international engineer and conference organizer has called for computer professionals to not come to the US for conferences because some may be threatened with arrest for their research if it reflects negatively on a software manufacturer or digital content provider. He, himself, has resigned his position with the California-based Usenix Association, which hosts many conferences every year including those focusing on computer security, because he cannot in good conscience ask international scientists and engineers to take that risk. Ever since the DMCA became law, there have been complaints that it has the power to deny fair use and punish anyone who would engage in security research. Every time there is another case, there is another round of letter-writing and online activism. But this, an actual arrest of a programmer for creating a software tool, has been enough to move large numbers of people into action to not only return Dmitry Sklyarov to his home and family in Russia, but overturn the US law that permitted him to be arrested in the first place, not for copyright infringement, but for merely providing a tool that someone else might use to do so. From honig at sprynet.com Sun Jul 22 11:06:44 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:19 2005 Subject: think of the children! (Re: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation) In-Reply-To: <20010722124550.B17293@sherohman.org> References: <200107212018.AA89719190@portalofevil.com> <200107212018.AA89719190@portalofevil.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010722110644.00866100@pop.sprynet.com> At 12:45 PM 7/22/01 -0500, Dave Sherohman wrote: >On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 08:18:23PM -0400, Cousin Willie wrote: >> "you're too dumb to understand what's going on here, but let me provide this simple analogy", > >You're right. Coming up with a way to explain the case to random >passers-by in 30 seconds or less which neither relies upon previous >knowledge nor comes off as condescending is, to say the least, difficult, >especially when it deals with something as esoteric as crypto. If you >think you can do a better job of it, please do. A good capsule summary >of the situation would do us all a lot of good. [just joining the list..] I just sent off this note to my congresscritters. It emphasizes the point that needs to be made in *real time*, ie, get this programmer back to his family. This kind of focus might be communicable quickly to randoms. In writing to congresscritters, I emphesized family-oriented-rube aspects which will tug their endocrines more than rants. Don't want to be written off as intellectual fringe, want to be read as typical voter. I do not go into the problems caused by DCMA. Solve that *later*. ............ Dmitri Sklyarov is a programmer for a Russian software company. The US software company Adobe, Inc recently had him arrested after he spoke at a conference in the US. As a citizen and programmer, I find it frankly abusive that Adobe has chosen to harass an employee of a company it has a beef with. Sklyarov reportedly has two little kids at home. As a parent of a little kid, I find this horrific --no matter how Mr. Sklyarov is treated in custody, he will be worrying about his family on the other side of the planet. I urge you to look into the matter and discover whether this was proper behavior by federal agents prompted by Adobe. thank you, From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Jul 22 11:11:21 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: ; from izel@sulam.com on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 02:03:59PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010722111121.G20817@zork.net> Izel Sulam writes: > This is the fun part. There is nothing that Adobe can do to make a > pdf-based ebook system secure. pdf was originally designed to be an open > format. The whole security kit'n'kaboodle piggybacks on what is essentially > an unencrypted pdf somewhere in memory. As long as you are reading this > "ebook" on hardware that is not tamperproof, you just peek into the RAM and > pull out the unencrypted pdf that is sitting there. Right... > So, on the one hand, Adobe is selling an unsafe security solution, and on > the other hand, as long as they insist on building their ebook strategy on > the pdf standard, they can never make it safe. So I'm not worried about > consumer rights being taken away anytime soon. > > I do understand your main concern, that corporate attitudes need to be > changed, and consumers need to be educated about encryption and fair use, > and congresscritters need to be convinced of the value of the freedoms of > the citizens of this country above the whims of stinking rich special > interest groups. (Take a breath now, that was a long sentence.) That is a > tall order. The strategy that I am proposing aims for less and is more > likely to achieve it than other strategies. The strategy that I am > proposing aims to Free Sklyarov and ruin Adobe's PR image. The rest of the > domino pieces fall where they may. The trouble is that the "safety" does nothing to help the people to whom the protest ought to appeal. I mean, the C1 group (publishers) might be grateful to Sklyarov for revealing the insecurity of Adobe's eBooks, but many of them seem to be content with ignorance of the risks, or with the "moat filled with litigators instead of alligators" (to quote again Judge Lewis Kaplan). The C2 group (the public) doesn't actually gain from having Adobe "fix" this. To the extent that Adobe has misled anyone or sold anyone an inferior or risky product, Adobe has misled publishers and sold them an inferior or flawed product. So I'm concerned that your approach, although it is quite reasonable, is telling the public about what Adobe did _to publishers_, not _to them_. Again: the aggrieved group of "consumers" by these design flaws is C1; the members of C2 actually benefit from the fact that the security is flawed, because the security was deployed treating them as an adversary, trying to prevent things that they want to do. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From tom at lemuria.org Sun Jul 22 11:11:37 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: ; from izel@sulam.com on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 01:41:12PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010722201134.A9628@lemuria.org> On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 01:41:12PM -0400, Izel Sulam wrote: > I would like to repeat very strongly what my suggestions are for statements > to the press tomorrow. Statements to the press should stress that this is a > consumer rights issue. Adobe makes a very expensive line of crypto > products, and claims that these are secure, and they are not, and this is a > fraud and a sham, and Dmitry Sklyarov brought this to the attention of the > world, and now Adobe is getting him illegally arrested rather than > imporving their products. Adobe is a profit-hungry corporation that has > acted in bad faith, fradulently misrepresented the capabilities of its > flawed products, and continues to take steps intended to do nothing but > salvage its PR image, damn product quality, damn consumer satisfaction. > That sort of thing should get a bunch of shareholder and customer class > action lawsuits going, and deservedly so. I couldn't agree more. > It is alright to also add that the DMCA is a controversial law, but as I > pointed out before, I do not believe that this is a battleground on which > we can defeat the DMCA. We must concentrate on Freeing Sklyarov here. well, I believe the above is the perfect setup. and then, the conclusion - "all this has been made possible by this new law they passed, called the D-M-C-A. what a horrible law, isn't it?" -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From mh_sklyarov at cryptonomicon.net Sun Jul 22 11:20:41 2001 From: mh_sklyarov at cryptonomicon.net (Matthew S. Hamrick) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Updated Protest Sites Message-ID: From jim at media.mit.edu Sun Jul 22 11:27:39 2001 From: jim at media.mit.edu (Jim Youll) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] seeking letters of support / anti-DMCA letters Message-ID: <200107221826.OAA11027@dns1.newmediagroup.com> if you have written a nice letter in support of Dmitry, or perhaps a letter to your colleagues in opposition to the DMCA, please consider submitting it to the letters archive at freesklyarov.org... submissions to mailto:free@freesklyarov.org please put the word LETTERS in the subject line, to make it easier on this end, if possible thanks -- http://www.media.mit.edu/~jim research assistant . software agents group . e-markets sig mit media lab . cambridge, ma Free Dmitry Sklyarov ... Boycott Adobe Systems ... http://freesklyarov.org/ From ausage at ausage.com Sun Jul 22 11:26:50 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722103434.03a3fe08@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722103434.03a3fe08@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <01072214265006.03179@frankie> On July 22, 2001 01:35 pm, Will Doherty wrote: > We will post a summary once the meeting is complete > unless the people at the meeting decide otherwise. Oh boy... I can see this one coming... 1) Adobe agrees to meet with EFF -> EFF puts protests on hold 2) Adobe meets with EFF -> EFF agrees to gag order Please, please, please... prove me wrong! From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Jul 22 11:32:29 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List welcome message changes [free-sklyarov-request@zork.net: Welcome to the "free-sklyarov" mailing list] Message-ID: <20010722113229.J20817@zork.net> For those already on the list, here's the new welcome message which will be sent to future subscribers when they sign up. All of this information is also applicable to existing subscribers. ----- Forwarded message from free-sklyarov-request@zork.net ----- Welcome to the free-sklyarov@zork.net mailing list! Hi, and welcome to the free-sklyarov list! Your list administrator is free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net. Please send any requestions about this list to that address. You can post to the list by writing to free-sklyarov@zork.net; your "From:" and envelope sender (usually the same as "Sender:") addresses must be the same as the address under which you subscribed. Otherwise, you will get an error about "Only subscribers are allowed to post". If you want me to add another e-mail address to the list of allowed addresses, I can do so on request. This list is currently very high-traffic (sometimes around 200 messages per day). If there is interest in a lower-volume "announce" list, we can create that. This list is currently unmoderated. Please keep your comments on topic. PLEASE DO NOT HARASS ADOBE ON THE TELEPHONE OR SEND THEM ANY OTHER KIND OF HARASSING OR THREATENING COMMUNICATION! (The same goes for the U.S. Marshal Service, the U.S. Attorney's Office, and the U.S. District Court.) Of course, it is OK to send criticism to Adobe and to the U.S. Attorney. Let your criticism be civil and relevant. When people sent threats to the MPAA -- following the MPAA's reprehensible prosecution of 2600 Enterprises -- the MPAA actually quoted these in court and used them to hurt the defendants' case! ESLI VY GOVORITE PO-RUSSKI: Dlya Russki mail list i ssilok na statyi na Russkom: http://ezhe.ru/elcomsoft/. To post to this list, send your email to: free-sklyarov@zork.net General information about the mailing list is at: http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your subscription page at: http://zork.net/mailman/options/free-sklyarov/[your-address] You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to: free-sklyarov-request@zork.net with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions. You must know your password to change your options (including changing the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: [specific to each individual subscriber] If you forget your password, don't worry, you will receive a monthly reminder telling you what all your zork.net mailing list passwords are, and how to unsubscribe or change your options. There is also a button on your options page that will email your current password to you. You may also have your password mailed to you automatically from the Web page noted above. ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From izel at sulam.com Sun Jul 22 11:34:58 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation Message-ID: Seth David Schoen schoen@loyalty.org wrote: >The C2 group (the public) doesn't actually gain from having Adobe >"fix" this. To the extent that Adobe has misled anyone or sold anyone >an inferior or risky product, Adobe has misled publishers and sold >them an inferior or flawed product. So I'm concerned that your >approach, although it is quite reasonable, is telling the public about >what Adobe did _to publishers_, not _to them_. For one thing, during a 30-second talk with a random passerby, the C1 versus C2 distinction will not become obvious nor verbalized. A consumer is one who buys products, and this issue is about consumers. Anyone can flash $3000 and buy encryption services from Adobe. Even on this list, filled with intelligent, well-educated people, it took a few emails back and forth to pin down the exact meanings we were wrestling with. So I do not believe that this will become a problem in the short term. On the other hand, you have a concern about the validity of the message I am proposing, and whether our energies would be directed correctly by looking out for what is essentially C1 rights to receive what they have been promised. I personally think that consumer rights are a matter of principle. A company that produces both entry and enterprise level products (as does Adobe) and has produced a flawed enterprise level product and has lied about its capabilities (as has Adobe) is very likely to do so for entry level products as well at some indeterminate point in the future. Crypto solutions for individuals and small businesses is a newly emerging industry, and it is set to boom within the next five years as information becomes the most valuable asset. In this climate, we need to hold companies responsible for the claims they make about encryption products. This is also a good way to gently break encryption awareness into public consciousness. If the first thing the public ever hears about encryption is "The DMCA outlaws encryption research and it is bad!" then they will get confused and they will not listen for very long. They might also get scared because acronyms scare sheeple. If the first thing they hear is "Adobe makes an encryption product, and it doesn't work. They lied about its quality. It does not work as advertised. They lied to consumers of their products. This is wrong. We are championing consumer rights!" then the public will listen. The public is often receptive to consumer rights messages. They can relate. They can understand. There are no acronyms involved. Then if the curious few want to find out what this encryption product is, and what it does, etc, they can be given the full story. But there is no need to dump a ton of bricks (a primer course on DMCA and encryption and fair use) on the head of every willing listener. You will lose willing audiences that way, real quick. As I said before, C2 would only really gain from chaging the essential attitudes, business philosophies and worldviews of C1 and congresscritters. This will not happen in the span of a few days. We need to inflict visible damage, fast, to Adobe's PR image, and we need to legitimize Dmitry's freedom somehow (I propose the consumer advocate angle) so the FBI can let him to without looking like fools. The FBI needs an excuse to come out of this situation looking clean, and if we don't supply such a pretense, Dmitry will never go free. The damage to Adobe's PR and the ensuing lawsuits will ensure that this sort of arrest will not happen in the short to midterm future, during which time we can set our turrets on the real target, the DMCA. Comments, suggestions welcome. - izel From wendy at seltzer.com Sun Jul 22 11:48:56 2001 From: wendy at seltzer.com (Wendy Seltzer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Legal technicality question In-Reply-To: <20010722130439.C17293@sherohman.org> References: <20010722020436.22015.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> <20010722020436.22015.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010722142037.0337fc18@pop.bellatlantic.net> At 01:04 PM 07/22/2001 -0500, Dave Sherohman wrote: >On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 07:04:36PM -0700, Sam Gray wrote: > > Is personal use of a circumvention device illegal under the DMCA, or is it > > merely "trafficking" that's now a crime? In other words, if I write my own > > software to rip the content from an eBook to exercise my fair use rights, > > can legal action be taken against me? Or is it just when I try to tell > > someone else about it? > >IANAL, etc, but my understanding is that, while they couldn't manage to >ban the _use_ of a circumvention device, creation or aquisition of a >circumvention device were both banned. So you're perfectly free to use >such a program, but you can't get one without violating DMCA. That's right. There are two main parts to the anticircumvention section (17 U.S.C. 1201), one banning circumvention of "access control" measures, and the other banning circumvention of "copy" protections. 1201(a), regarding access controls, bans both the trafficking in circumvention devices and their use, while 1201(b), regarding copy controls, bans only the trafficking in devices. The reasoning, as I understand it, was that this was supposed to accommodate fair use, the copying/display/performance of a copyrighted work that is not a violation of a copyright owner's rights. Besides, traditional copyright infringement was punishable pre-DMCA whether or not it involved circumvention. Of course the absence of a use ban on devices to circumvent copy controls doesn't help non-programmers who can't build circumvention mechanisms themselves, so we've set up a privileged class of those who may make fair use. Even more insidious, even those who can make the copying devices may still be sued for breaking "access controls," as the law does not make a clear distinction. In the Universal v. Reimerdes (DeCSS) case, the district court found that use of an "unauthorized" DVD player was circumvention of access controls. I'm a bit surprised to see only 1201(b) (copy control) charged in the Sklyarov complaint. --Wendy -- Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.com Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard Law School http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html From ausage at ausage.com Sun Jul 22 11:48:13 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: <20010722201134.A9628@lemuria.org> References: <20010722201134.A9628@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <01072214481307.03179@frankie> On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 01:41:12PM -0400, Izel Sulam wrote: > I would like to repeat very strongly what my suggestions are for > statements to the press tomorrow. Statements to the press should stress > that this is a consumer rights issue. Adobe makes a very expensive line > of crypto products, and claims that these are secure, and they are not, > and this is a fraud and a sham, and Dmitry Sklyarov brought this to the > attention of the world, and now Adobe is getting him illegally arrested > rather than imporving their products. Adobe is a profit-hungry Also, Orginally the copyright laws were to encourage writers and authors to create new works for the public. Now, the DMCA is being used to restrict the ways libraries and the public can use the works they purchase. Dimity Sklyarov wrote a program that gave those rights back to the public. NOW HE'S IN JAIL. From marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca Sun Jul 22 11:57:54 2001 From: marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca (Marvin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] 99 Legalized Cyber-Terrorism methods In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We're all struggling with how best to coherently explain all that's wrong with the imprisonment of Dmitry Sklyarov -- it's great to see sharp minds at work here -- it's really a non-trivial problem. This monument to Adobe's disgraceful corporate citizenship is the product of so many corrupt moral values that it boggles the mind. Not that any one of them is as bad as a genocide or as immediate as one day shutting down a entire country's free press, but it's notable in and of itself that this event probably brings together more rotten threads in that plaid of corrupt, lobbiest driven, oppressive government, corporate irresponsibility, and voter ignorance than any one event we have ever heard of. Stop government cyber-terrorism! Free Dmitry Sklyarov! And for God's sake, send the EFF more money! Austin Hook Calgary From paul at paultopia.net Sun Jul 22 11:52:12 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: <01072214265006.03179@frankie> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722103434.03a3fe08@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010722103434.03a3fe08@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722125118.031a8820@mail.paultopia.net> At 12:26 PM 7/22/01, Andrew Lawrence wrote: >On July 22, 2001 01:35 pm, Will Doherty wrote: > > We will post a summary once the meeting is complete > > unless the people at the meeting decide otherwise. > >Oh boy... I can see this one coming... > >1) Adobe agrees to meet with EFF -> EFF puts protests on hold >2) Adobe meets with EFF -> EFF agrees to gag order > >Please, please, please... prove me wrong! Quite frankly, the way I see it more likely turning out is 2. Adobe meets with EFF -> Adobe agrees to gag order (at EFF's request) judging by the secret letter, etc. -Paul -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From sethf at sethf.com Sun Jul 22 11:55:00 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Legal technicality question References: <20010722020436.22015.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> <20010722130439.C17293@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <3B5B2184.5FC8C1A8@sethf.com> Dave Sherohman wrote: > IANAL, etc, but my understanding is that, while they couldn't manage to > ban the _use_ of a circumvention device, creation or aquisition of a > circumvention device were both banned. So you're perfectly free to use > such a program, but you can't get one without violating DMCA. IANAL either, but please examine the text of http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/1201.html Sec. 1201. Circumvention of copyright protection systems (a) Violations Regarding Circumvention of Technological Measures. - (1)(A) No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. [then goes into modifications, additional offenses, defenses, etc.] -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From harrold at sage.che.pitt.edu Sun Jul 22 11:55:14 2001 From: harrold at sage.che.pitt.edu (harrold@sage.che.pitt.edu) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: <01072214265006.03179@frankie> Message-ID: Sometime in July Andrew Lawrence assaulted keyboard and produced... |On July 22, 2001 01:35 pm, Will Doherty wrote: |> We will post a summary once the meeting is complete |> unless the people at the meeting decide otherwise. | |Oh boy... I can see this one coming... | |1) Adobe agrees to meet with EFF -> EFF puts protests on hold |2) Adobe meets with EFF -> EFF agrees to gag order | |Please, please, please... prove me wrong! exactly what has the eff done in the past to justify a comment such as this? prove you wrong? the burdon of proof lies on your sholders. the eff is trying to do what is best for sklyarov. i think your comments would be different if you were the one in a federal prision relying on a nonprofit organizaion to get you free. john From ausage at ausage.com Sun Jul 22 11:54:53 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072214545308.03179@frankie> Another important arguement. Copy protection, digital rights management and encryption do absolutely nothing to stop commencial piracy. Off-shore pirates still make bit-fot-bit copies and sell them on the black market. All that DMR and the DMCA do is take away my rights as a consumer. Dimitry Sklyarov tried to give me my rights back. NOW HE'S IN JAIL! From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Sun Jul 22 11:46:05 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] St. Paul/Mpls Update Message-ID: We had an organizational meeting last night, and discussed our plan of attack. We will meet outside the Warren Burger federal building in Saint Paul (316 Robert Street, Saint Paul) at 11 am. We encourage protesters to dress nicely (as if we had come from corporate jobs downtown), and come informed and ready to talk. A press release will be issued today, probably calling our St. Paul action an awareness campaign rather than a protest because I don't expect the attendance to be very large or demonstrative (judging by who attended the organizational meeting). Our focus will be first to educate people about Dmitry with the goal of ending his prosecution, and second to educate them about the DMCA with the goal of having it repealed. Parking may be a challenge, but the building is at one end of the Robert Street bridge over the river, and the other end has plenty of parking. Meters are enforced, and most only hold 1 hour at a time, so avoid them and park in a ramp or lot instead. Parts of Kellogg Blvd are under construction, so avoid it when coming in to town. I have gotten a cell phone, which can be reached at 651-353-1513. As always, I can be reached at freedima@underwhelm.org, but I will be at work today, so the cell phone might get a quicker response. Good luck everyone. freedima@underwhelm.org From honig at sprynet.com Sun Jul 22 11:16:39 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: References: <20010722104444.E20817@zork.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010722111639.007e18a0@pop.sprynet.com> At 06:58 PM 7/22/01 +0100, Julian T. J. Midgley wrote: >It is not an offence to manufacture crowbars (that can be used to break >into people's houses) nor does it need to be, since it is an offence to >break into people's houses. Yes. Tim May has used the closer example of the Xerox machine ---whose only purpose, (short of copying butt-prints after hours), is copying copyrighted material [1]! Especially considering their placement in libraries. [1] everything ever xeroxed is copyrighted by its author, who may or may not permit copying in that instance. Layfolks understand Xerox machines and/vs. copyrighting methinks. From pablos at kadrevis.com Sun Jul 22 12:00:50 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Acrobat or Clown? (fwd) Message-ID: <320557.995803250@[10.0.1.220]> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Sunday, July 22, 2001 11:16 PM +1000 From: Newsom To: "nicehair@boycottadobe.com" Subject: Acrobat or Clown? Greetings and salutations After seeing the Boycott Adobe web site and reading about the circumstances around Mr Sklyarov's arrest, I was outraged at this insane law that punishes people who are honest enough to publicize a design flaw in a product rather than exploit it for personal gain. Imagine if Ford had been able to sue for defamation those who claimed the Pinto was a rolling barbecue... Here, if you care to read, is the important bit of an email I shot off to Adobe under the above subject line (NB laws vary due to jurisdiction). "I will also advise that anyone paying for your security scheme who subsequently finds their copyright breached may be entitled to sue Adobe for damages under the Australian Consumer Protection Act. It is important to remember that in a global market that where one person can find a security hole, it is certain that others will find that hole, and those less honest will exploit it; there are innumerable examples of this. Shooting the messenger will actively discourage users from reporting flaws that could eventually prove a liability for Adobe, which is fine if having real security is a lower priority than being seen to have security (or being seen to be litigious)." Here's to a quick release for Mr Sklyarov, and a hope that these laws are amended to protect those who hack for the public good (for consumer protection). T.J. Newsom ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From pablos at kadrevis.com Sun Jul 22 12:13:52 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Concerns from a potential customer (fwd) Message-ID: <367499.995804032@[10.0.1.220]> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Sunday, July 22, 2001 3:16 PM +0000 From: "shafik@shafik.net" To: "nicehair@boycottadobe.com" Subject: Concerns from a potential customer (fwd) This is a copy of the e-mail I sent to Adobe address you helpfully provided, hopefully it will make a differnence, although I fear it will fall on deaf ears. Take care ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 15:15:06 +0000 (/etc/localtime) From: shafik@shafik.net To: jcristof@adobe.com, dstyerwa@adobe.com, lvacante@adobe.com, ablatchf@adobe.com, skrueger@adobe.com, gbabbit@adobe.com, wsaso@adobe.com, jwarnock@adobe.com, cgeschke@adobe.com, bchizen@adobe.com, snarayen@adobe.com, mdemo@adobe.com, gfreeman@adobe.com, cpouliot@adobe.com, jstephens@adobe.com, mdyrdahl@adobe.com, lepstein@adobe.com, lsellers@adobe.com, blamkin@adobe.com Subject: Concerns from a potential customer After reading the coverage about the arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov from www.theregister.co.uk, www.eff.org and eventually www.boycottadobe.com. I feel I have gathered enough facts to condemn your company for such a awful abuse of my Constitutionally protected rights. The DMCA is a misconceived law, that attempts to take away every Americans right to fair use and in my opinion to protect companies that do not want to bother with real security but give their customers symbolic security which does no one any good and is the key reason why the Internet was plagued by the CodeRed worm this week. I have been considering for a while if I should bother trying out Photoshop after playing with "The Gimp" www.gimp.org, but at this point I doubt I will be purchasing any Adobe products ever and I will be encouraging everyone I know to avoid Adobe products. I will also be doing my best to show people in other companies as well as mine how powerful "The Gimp" is and how they can replace Photoshop with it. I am not that familiar with all your products but I will be on the lookout for products that can replace products that you produce and educating people that free alternatives exist. As a company you should be ashamed for at least two reasons, 1 that you could not create a security mechanism that was nothing more then basic and 2 that you are contributing to the erosion of basic American rights and protections. Maybe you should all take some time and read : The Constitution "The Federalist Papers" Tocqueville's "Democracy in America" F.A. Hayek's "The Road to Serfdom" Bruce Schneier's "The Futility of Digital Copy Protection" http://www.counterpane.com/crypto-gram-0105.html#3 For your security team I might advise the following reading: Bruce Schneier's "Applied Cryptography" AND http://www.counterpane.com/crypto-gram.html Your truely Shafik Yaghmour ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From rew at erebor.com Sun Jul 22 12:20:29 2001 From: rew at erebor.com (Ryan Waldron) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Legal technicality question In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20010722142037.0337fc18@pop.bellatlantic.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, someone wrote: > > IANAL, etc, but my understanding is that, while they couldn't > > manage to ban the _use_ of a circumvention device, creation or > > aquisition of a circumvention device were both banned. So you're > > perfectly free to use such a program, but you can't get one > > without violating DMCA. ... BTW, for those of you familiar with the gun control efforts underway in the U.S., this was precisely the method used to limit access to high-capacity clips (for rifles as well as handguns). It's legal, for instance, for me to OWN a 25-round clip for my .22 target rifle, but not for me to manufacture one for sale. This is an early step in a coherent and planned strategy for ultimately removing general access to weapons by the general public. Identically, the DMCA is an early step in a coherent and planned first step toward removing ALL non-free usage events (i.e., each single reading or viewing or listening of any multimedia object, will be charged separately) from the general public. Whether or not you agree with gun control, the parallels are interesting (to me, anyway). -- Ryan Waldron ||| http://www.erebor.com ||| rew@erebor.com "The web goes ever, ever on, down from the site where it began..." From pablos at kadrevis.com Sun Jul 22 12:22:30 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe; hitting them where it hurts. (fwd) Message-ID: <397220.995804550@[10.0.1.220]> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Sunday, July 22, 2001 7:27 AM -0400 From: Chris To: "nicehair@boycottadobe.com" Subject: Adobe; hitting them where it hurts. I work for ACM, and host the Siggraph computer graphics conference.? 50,000+ computer graphics enthusiasts visit this convention every year.? Adobe puts up a very large pompous booth, it would be the most wonderous thing to give a few shirts away on the floor of the con to raise awareness. ? It would completely disarm adobes purpose of being there, which is to look good.? People in the graphics community would like to hear about this, I have been telling as many people as I can, many of the people at this con are programmers and TD's.? Send me a shirt and Ill wear it, it would be great to have shirts for sale or free on the floor with a pamphlet to raise awareness.? This is completely wrong and everyone agrees.? Please look into this, tshirts could be made very cheaply, forget the caf? press thing, hell, I am already boycotting caf? press.? As a screen printer myself, I find what they do completely ridiculous.? Hopefully they have upped their quality since they opened, because it was horrible. Christopher Evans -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Lead Animator DigitaLife productions Active Frame inc. ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From izel at sulam.com Sun Jul 22 12:25:15 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why Dmitry Needs to Go Free Message-ID: Why Dmitry Needs to Go Free, Explained in Five, Short, Simple Statements (Even Your Grandmother Can Understand) http://izel.sulam.com/boycottadobe/statements.html Good flier material. Comments, suggestions welcome. - izel From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Jul 22 12:31:31 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Take Our Daughters to Work Day? Message-ID: <20010722123131.K20817@zork.net> Someone said here that Monday was supposed to have been Take Our Daughters To Work Day at Adobe. Can anyone substantiate this or provide a reference? If it's true, I'm thinking of making a sign along the lines of Adobe Take Our Daughters To Work Day ...Send Our Father To Jail Day -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From rew at erebor.com Sun Jul 22 12:31:02 2001 From: rew at erebor.com (Ryan Waldron) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Legal technicality question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Ryan Waldron babbles: > step toward removing ALL non-free usage events (i.e., each single ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ And of course, this should say "...removing ALL free usage events..." *mumble* -- Ryan Waldron ||| http://www.erebor.com ||| rew@erebor.com "The web goes ever, ever on, down from the site where it began..." From kastlyn at lowerlights.com Sun Jul 22 13:48:40 2001 From: kastlyn at lowerlights.com (kastlyn@lowerlights.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Legal Technical Message-ID: <0107221348.0JEH900@lowerlights.com> Seth Finkelstein wrote: > IANAL either, but please examine the text of > >http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/1201.html > >Sec. 1201. Circumvention of copyright protection systems > > (a) Violations Regarding Circumvention of Technological Measures. > - (1)(A) No person shall circumvent a technological measure that >effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. > >[then goes into modifications, additional offenses, defenses, etc.] Well, then, there are no grounds for arrest, because Adobe's technological measure doesn't "effectively" control access to anything. =} -=Amie Christensen=- From ericeldred at usa.net Sun Jul 22 12:59:39 2001 From: ericeldred at usa.net (Eric Eldred) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] locking up books Message-ID: <20010722195939.459.qmail@awcst401.netaddress.usa.net> It is hard for me to understand how companies such as Adobe expect to lock up books with DRMs. It is easy and cheap enough for any determined copyist to simply retype the book from the computer or ebook appliance display. Marginally more difficult is doing a screen capture and OCR. Conventional copyright law already prohibits "unauthorized" redistribution of copyrighted works. But Adobe and Microsoft and others also lock up ebooks that are in the public domain. Fair use and first sale rights mean that without the DMCA the legitimate purchaser of an ebook can make an archival copy or a copy that will work on another computer, such as a Macintosh. And librarians ought to have the legal right to unlock books once they enter the public domain. (Of course, the DMCA in concert with the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act means that books so locked up will never enter the public domain anyway and will forever be pay-per-view.) I can understand how consumers might not be upset about being barred by the DMCA from making copies of DVD movies. But they ought to be upset about what is happening with book publishing. The laws such as the DMCA are not just unnecessary--they also are pernicious. They work against the public interest and the real longterm interests of authors and publishers and libraries and readers and consumers alike. I hope we can use this case to overturn the DMCA. But in any case, companies such as Adobe ought to see that they are going down the wrong path in trying to lock up books. ____ "Eric" Eric Eldred mailto:ericeldred@usa.net http://eldred.ne.mediaone.net "Eldritch Press" ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 From jays at panix.com Sun Jul 22 13:00:43 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: <20010722124550.B17293@sherohman.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 08:18:23PM -0400, Cousin Willie wrote: > > How does it help the cause to have a bunch of "advocates" charge out > > half-cocked saying "you're too dumb to understand what's going on > > here, but let me provide this simple analogy", and then proceeding to > > mumble something about cereal boxes and secret decoders, or books in > > glass boxes, or Firestone tires? It seems that you're walking a fine > > line, risking that the public draws some undesirable conclusions: > > You're right. Coming up with a way to explain the case to random > passers-by in 30 seconds or less which neither relies upon previous > knowledge nor comes off as condescending is, to say the least, difficult, > especially when it deals with something as esoteric as crypto. If you > think you can do a better job of it, please do. A good capsule summary > of the situation would do us all a lot of good. Every issue any human being has ever demonstrated about, including slavery, the death penalty, and the WTO is hard to fully explain in less than 30 seconds. Here we have the advantage that the secret decoder ring is not an analogy, but an implementation of one cipher, the mono-alphabetic substitution, used by an Adobe partner to "protect the copyright holder's interests". oo--JS. From honig at sprynet.com Sun Jul 22 12:56:21 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: References: <01072214265006.03179@frankie> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010722125621.007e2a40@pop.sprynet.com> At 02:55 PM 7/22/01 -0400, harrold@sage.che.pitt.edu wrote: >the eff >is trying to do what is best for sklyarov. Interesting question. Doing best for DS is not guaranteed to be ideal for the EFF's goals. From honig at sprynet.com Sun Jul 22 13:01:06 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Take Our Daughters to Work Day? In-Reply-To: <20010722123131.K20817@zork.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010722130106.007e3d30@pop.sprynet.com> At 12:31 PM 7/22/01 -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote: >Someone said here that Monday was supposed to have been Take Our >Daughters To Work Day at Adobe. Can anyone substantiate this or >provide a reference? > >If it's true, I'm thinking of making a sign along the lines of > >Adobe >Take Our Daughters To Work Day > ...Send Our Father To Jail Day Nice. Even better if you blow up that photo of him and his kids. From ausage at ausage.com Sun Jul 22 12:59:59 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why the DMCA is a bad law Message-ID: <01072215482009.03179@frankie> The following is an excerpt from a rather long letter I am composing to my Member of Parliment concerning a planned revision to the Canadian Copyright Act. While there is a distinctly Canadian flavour in wording, the arguement is I believe valid and can be applied to copyright laws anywhere, especially the DMCA. First, I believe it is important to state the purpose of the copyright. Quoting from "A Guide to Copyrights" (January 200), published by the Canadian Intellectual Property Office, "Its purpose, like that of other pieces of intellectual property legislation, is to protect owners while promoting creativity and the orderly exchange of ideas." This I believe is a noble goal. Writers, musicians, scientists, et al, should be rewarded and encouraged to create so that our society can enjoy and benefit from their works as much as possible. Unfortuately, I find that in Canada today copyright has been transformed into "intellectual property" and then, in the words of the motion picture and music publishers, into "our property". Copyright is no longer a creative incentive to our society, but a means of acquiring wealth for a few large, mostly foreign, corporations that now control the publication and distribution of "intellectual property" worldwide. This is a trend that I believe any revision to the Copyright Act should be tailored to reverse. For Americans, change the quote to the appropriate article of the US Constitution, I'm too lazy to look it up, change Copyright Act to DMCA and Canada to US and remove "mostly foreign" from the last sentence. Other Nationalities are on their own... PS: Copyright 2001 Andrew Lawrence. Permission to copy, change, adopt, reject and claim as your own is granted to anyone and everyone. From rabbi at quickie.net Sun Jul 22 13:11:03 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Alan Cox reaction In-Reply-To: <20010722115452.C8716@lemuria.org> Message-ID: Well, ian Goldberg has repeatedly stated that his reason for not remaining in the US was the passage of the DMCA. So, there's another... On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Tom wrote: > On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 04:44:56AM -0400, Xcott Craver wrote: > > > alan's comments to usenix, however, made me wonder. I doubt that things > > > like this are very effective, but they certainly FEEL right. > > > > The problem is that other countries are next, with similar > > copyright laws. You can't just flee the US and be safe. > > I am already fighting the euro-DMCA locally, thank you. > > > One other problem is that a "boycott" has to be noticeable, > > if only from a PR standpoint. Americans have the funny > > tendency to be completely out of touch with the rest of the > > world; Canada could declare war on us and we wouldn't even > > notice. > > "brain-drain" is an incredible PR opportunity. someone has already > turned down an adobe job offer. if we had someone else who refuses to > move to the states now as a result of this, and a few others who say > they had been contemplating it, but now they've changed their minds - > some journalist will make a story of it. ("high-tech minds abandoning > the USA after DMCA prosecution") > > > -- > -- http://web.lemuria.org > -- > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From jays at panix.com Sun Jul 22 13:12:31 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: <20010722104444.E20817@zork.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Seth David Schoen wrote: > Izel Sulam writes: > > > I would like to repeat very strongly what my suggestions are for statements > > to the press tomorrow. Statements to the press should stress that this is a > > consumer rights issue. Adobe makes a very expensive line of crypto > > products, and claims that these are secure, and they are not, and this is a > > fraud and a sham, and Dmitry Sklyarov brought this to the attention of the > > world, and now Adobe is getting him illegally arrested rather than > > imporving their products. > > However, "improving" their products would harm consumer rights even > more. Consumers aren't the ones who want "security" that tries to > prevent ordinary uses of digital media. > > -- > Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Sometimes companies do not correctly estimate the best way to make money. I believe that by clearly arranging to make it easy for buyers of books to exercise the traditional rights of fair use, Adobe will make more money. Means of preventing mass distribution of works the copyright holder does not want distributed are already available, and so far as we can see, effective. Napster is closed. We need not accept that Adobe's interests require an end to fair use. We might put some effort to presenting other strategems of commerce to Adobe. oo--JS. From honig at sprynet.com Sun Jul 22 13:16:14 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] IRVINE ADOBE OFFICES In-Reply-To: <01072215482009.03179@frankie> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010722131614.007df380@pop.sprynet.com> I found the Irvine office address from http://www.educause.edu/memdir/corp-profiles/30880.html after not finding it on adobe.com Adobe Systems Inc. CONTACT Greg Gardner Adobe Systems Inc. 6 Venture Suite 100 Irvine, CA 92718 (714) 727-0485 email: ggardner@adobe.com URL: http://www.adobe.com Barranca -> Pacifica -> Venture From mlc67 at columbia.edu Sun Jul 22 13:16:36 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Why? In-Reply-To: <20010722054259.A26579@zaphod.whizziwig.com>; from david@whizziwig.com on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 05:42:59AM -0500 References: <20010722054259.A26579@zaphod.whizziwig.com> Message-ID: <20010722131636.B4116@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> I, for one, am not "ignoring" EFF's request. I read it, considered it, and decided that, although they are generally wonderful people, they are wrong in this case. The EFF, as a bunch of "big guys with real lawyers" (less bias is debatable), obviously has a preference for a negotiated solution. This is, of course, quite sensible, but I don't think the EFF fully understands the power and momentum going that has built up over the past week. It seems that Adobe (or at least Adobe's PR firm) actually might, so they have come up with this meeting as a means to weaken the protest movement and the media coverage thereof. I'm a bit upset that EFF has fallen for what I consider to be a classic corporate stalling tactic, but I don't feel that I should therefore be required to fall for it. Therefore, I will be in San Jose this Monday. mike On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 05:42:59AM -0500, David Blackman wrote: > Why are we ignoring EFF's request that the protests be put on hold? > These are the big guys with real lawyers and less bias. > > --dave -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // cell: +1 (646) 382-7220 // "facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - aldous huxley -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010722/e0a39dce/attachment.pgp From sethf at sethf.com Sun Jul 22 13:22:43 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] locking up books References: <20010722195939.459.qmail@awcst401.netaddress.usa.net> Message-ID: <3B5B3613.D934E5B8@sethf.com> Eric Eldred wrote: > > It is hard for me to understand how companies > such as Adobe expect to lock up books with DRMs. It doesn't have to be perfect. It just has to protect the business model so it is profitable. This is something techies DESPERATELY need to understand. What is at stake is not an intellectual puzzle. That is, saying "You can't make an unsolvable puzzle" (== unbreakable crypto), is off-point. What is at stake is a business model protected by both law and technology. Even if neither is perfect, as long as the outcome is profitable, that's good enough. Many people on this list argue in effect, that because the technology used as been relatively weak, the corporations are somehow in error for also relying on law, and should just get better technology. I have a feeling that they'd reply that in terms of cost-benefit, they reached diminishing returns via technology, but the law is doing wonderfully well for them. -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From krburger at burger-family.org Sun Jul 22 13:32:22 2001 From: krburger at burger-family.org (Kenneth Burger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Updated Protest Sites References: Message-ID: <048e01c112ed$692cfe30$0800a8c0@balthazar> Per the council, 4 members to be exact. We will not hold a massive organized rally tomorrow, rather we will circulate flyers in our respective areas, however, 2 of us will be going to the Federal Building downtown Detroit at 477 Michigan Ave. at about 6:00pm where we will stay till approximately 9PM and hand out flyers and maybe carry a sign. All people who wish to come help us are encouraged to do so. There's a lot of area to cover downtown and if we feel picketing in front of the federal building isn't doing it and we have enough people, we can march around to Hart Plaza and the surrounding areas. So, for an organized rally I guess you could say there's an informal one which starts at 6:00PM (we all have to work), and that everyone who wants to come is invited. I encourage anyone in the Metro-Detroit area to come and help us out here. We haven't received much support thus far, but the support we have received has been very valuable and my thanks go to those that have participated. I look forward to and hope to see some people there. Also, if anyone on this list is in the Metro-Detroit area and can be there in the morning at like 11 and wants to lead this during the day, please contact me by email or phone. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew S. Hamrick" To: Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 2:20 PM Subject: [free-sklyarov] Updated Protest Sites > From the Sklyarov Controversy FAQ on Cryptonomicon.Net > (http://www.cryptonomicon.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=FAQ&file=index&myf > aq=yes&id_cat=8&categories=Sklyarov+Controversy) > > Please let me know if there are any changes... Also, Atlanta, Detroit, > Moscow, and San Diego; let me know the outcome of your planning meetings... > > -Matt Hamrick > > P.S. - Are there no protests in D/FW or Houston? For Shame! > > 3. Activism Opportunities > > > 3.1. Are There Any Protests Planned? > > Yes, it appears that there are going to be protests in multiple cities > across the US and perhaps some in other countries. The date for the protests > is Monday, 23 July, 2001. The rest of this section deals with protests in > specific cities. > > 3.2. ALBEQUERQUE (NM) > > WHEN/WHERE > Noon. Federal Building on Gold St. > Albequerque Protest Site > RIDESHARE INFO > EVENT CONTACT > Contacts: freedmitry@jaraco.com Jason Coombs: 505.456.6655 Rob Franklin: > 505.550.5437 > > > 3.3. ATLANTA (GA) > > PLANNING MEETING > Sunday, July 22nd, 4pm at Innovox. This is a cyber-cafe in Midtown, near the > Kroger and the new Home Depot on Ponce. It is next to City Hall East and > shares a parking lot with Kroger. They have a wireless network and plenty of > comfy chairs. > INNOVOX LOUNGE 699 PONCE DE LEON AVE NE, ATLANTA, GA 30308, (404) 872-4482 > We have a mailing list, you can sign up and check out the archive to see > past messages. > WHERE > Atlanta Rally Discussion List > EVENT CONTACT > Andrea andrea@gravitt.org > > 3.4. AUSTIN (TX) > > WHEN/WHERE > DMCA Protest on the Capitol steps, AUSTIN, Texas, MONDAY, 11am-12:30pm > EVENT CONTACT > Dkr. Armand Geddyn, ageddyn@minitru.org > Michael Badnarik 2002 Libertarian Campaign > > > 3.5. BOSTON (MA) > > WHEN/WHERE > Monday, July 23, 12:00 NOON > Meet outside Park Street Station just outside the T exit > More information available at: http://freesklyarov.org/boston/ > RIDESHARE / CARPOOL > http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010723_boston_rideshare.html > EVENT CONTACT > C. Scott Ananian > cananian@mit.edu > work: 617 253-7710 > cell: 617 233-1238 > Mailing List: dmitry-boston-subscribe@lm.lcs.mit.edu > Mailing List Archive > > > 3.6. CHICAGO (IL) > > WHEN/WHERE > Monday, July 23, 2001 from 11 AM to 1 PM Central Time > At the public plaza across from the federal building downtown. > The address is: > > Everett McKinley Dirksen Federal Building > 219 South Dearborn Street > Suite 905 > Chicago, IL 60604 > > and we will be meeting near the big orange Calder statue at 11:00 on Monday > morning. This is what the statue looks like: > > http://www.a1focus.com/arch/calder.htm > From there we'll move to a higher-profile location in the plaza for our > demonstration. If you come late, just look for the people with the signs. > Chicago Rally Site > Chicago Rally Discussion List > Rideshare/Carpool Board for this rally > EVENT CONTACT > Nate Riffe, inkblot@tastytronic.net > > > 3.7. DENVER (CO) > > WHEN/WHERE > Monday, July 23, 2001; 12:00 Noon to 2:00 PM on 19th and Stout > RIDESHARE/CARPOOL > EVENT CONTACT > Sonja Tideman > sonjat@cs.unm.edu > Mailing List: free-sklyarov-denver-subscribe@booyaka.com > > > 3.8. DETROIT (MI) > > WHEN/WHERE > Planning meeting tonight at Denny's on 12 mile and Mound in Warren. The > address is: > 6004 E. 12 Mile Rd, > Warren, MI 48092. > > Rideshare/Carpool Board for this rally. > EVENT CONTACT > Kenneth R. Burger > (810)977-1674 > krburger@burger-family.org > > 3.9. MINNEAPOLIS / ST. PAUL (MN) > > WHEN/WHERE > Primary protest: 11am - 1pm Federal Courthouse, 316 N Robert St., Saint Paul > If you can't make it to Saint Paul, there is a federal building at 300 S 4th > St. in Minneapolis. > Map of Downtown Saint Paul Rideshare/Carpool Board for this rally > EVENT CONTACT > Chris > freedima@underwhelm.org > Please direct protest-related phone calls to 651-222-4722 > > > 3.10. MOSCOW (RUSSIA) > > WHEN/WHERE > Details coming soon > RIDESHARE / CARPOOL > EVENT CONTACT > Ilya V. Vasilyev > hscool@netclub.ru > +7 (095) 162-4767 > > > > 3.11. MUNICH (GERMANY) > > WHEN/WHERE > Adobe headoffice Germany on wednesday 25th. meeting 15.00 h at their office > unterschleissheim. > MUNICH Rideshare Information > EVENT CONTACT > > 3.12. NEW YORK CITY (NY) > > WHEN/WHERE > Time: Noon on Monday July, 23 2001 > Where: 5th avenue between 41st and 42nd street, in front of New York public > library. > > Adobe has an office across the street at 8 West 40th Street. See map. > > We will have several short signs: > > "Free Dmitry" > "Boycott Adobe" > "Stop DMCA" > > > If you can bring your sign, make it short and straight to the point. > > EVENT CONTACT > Leonid Gorkin > email: lgorkin@excite.com or lgorkin1@nyc.rr.com > phone: 212 794 1565 > > > 3.13. PORTLAND (OR) > > WHEN/WHERE > We, in Portland, have decided to hold our event on Wednesday, 11am-1pm at > Terry Schrunk Plaza downtown at 1237 SW 3rd Avenue. > The reason for the change in date is two-fold: Encouragement from the EFF to > delay protest until resolution is reached with Adobe and the unfortunate > simultaneous action of local activists regarding the sad slaying of a > protester in Italy by police. > RIDESHARE / CARPOOL > Rideshare Info > EVENT CONTACT > Jeme A. Brelin > jeme@brelin.net > > http://www.paultopia.net/adobe/ > http://mail.bitmine.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-portland > > 3.14. RENO (NV) > > WHEN/WHERE > Bruce Thompson Federal Building > 400 S. Virginia Street > Reno, NV > 11:30-1:00 > > How To Get There By Public Transit: > The number 1 bus goes from Meadowood Mall along Virginia St. to downtown, > and back. You'll want to get off at Virginia and Liberty. If you're coming > in on PRIDE don't get off at Meadowood Mall. Take it all the way to downtown > > More details on the Reno Mailing list. Subscribe Instructions > EVENT CONTACT > Sam Phillips > sam@dasbistro.com > 775-843-4114 > > 3.15. SALT LAKE CITY (UT) > > WHEN/WHERE > Monday, July 23, 11AM at the Federal Building in downtown Salt Lake City at > the corner of 100 South and State Street. > EVENT CONTACT > Chris Thompson > cdthompson@home.com > 801-231-6822 > > > 3.16. SAN DIEGO (CA) > > WHEN/WHERE > Planning Meeting ??? > OSCON > 8:00 PM Sunday in the Lobby > Sheraton San Diego Hotel and Marina > 1380 Harbor Island Drive > San Diego, California 92101 > > Rideshare/Carpool Board for this rally > EVENT CONTACT > > 3.17. SAN JOSE (CA) > > WHEN/WHERE > RALLY AT "THE SNAKE": We will be meeting at 11am PT in downtown San Jose at > the snake sculpture, "Quetzalcoatl", which is at the south end of Plaza de > Cesar Chavez, at the corner of South Market St. and West San Carlos St. > Plaza de Cesar Chavez is across San Carlos from the Hyatt St. Claire Hotel. > > From "the Snake" we will walk the two blocks to Adobe Headquarters, 345 Park > Avenue together. > TRANSIT > VTA light rail: Take the Santa Teresa/Baypointe line to the Convention > Center stop. Trains run approximately every 10 minutes. The convention > center is on the south side of the street; walk 1/2 block east on W. San > Carlos St. to the snake. > > Caltrain: Transfer from Caltrain to the Santa Teresa/Baypointe light rail > line at the Tamien station. > > VTA light rail schedules: > http://www.vta.org/schedules/SC_901.html > > DRIVING > Downtown San Jose is easily accessible from US 101, Interstate 280, and > California 87. See the URL below for maps and recommended routes: > > http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?addr=S+Market+St+and+W+San+Carlos+St&csz=Sa > n+Jose%2C+CA > > PARKING > An inexpensive pay parking lot is available at the San Jose Convention > Center, across San Carlos from the snake sculpture. The entrance is from > Almaden Blvd., one block west. > > RIDESHARE/CARPOOL > EVENT CONTACT > Don Marti > dmarti@zgp.org > 650-743-8035 (cell) > > Free event T-shirts to the first 50-100 attendees. Free Dmitry! > > 3.18. SAN LUIS OBISPO (CA) > > EVENT CONTACT > John Kew, peri@logorrhea.com, 550-0681 > http://lists.geekresearch.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/slo-protest > > 3.19. SEATTLE (WA) > > EVENT DETAILS > We plan to congregate at Gasworks park at 11:00am, where we will await the > outcome of the EFF/Adobe talks, receiving live updates by cell phone. If the > talks fail, we will proceed up 34th street to Adobe and picket until 1:00pm. > If the talks succeed or last past 1:00, we will use the time to discuss > future actions. > http://woozle.org/~neale/sklyarov/ > SEATTLE Mailing List > RIDESHARE / CARPOOL > EVENT CONTACT > Neale Pickett > neale@woozle.org > 206-290-7309 (cell) > > 3.20. WASHINGTON (DC) > > EVENT DETAILS > http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ > Rideshare Info > EVENT CONTACT > David C. Merrill, david@lupercalia.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu Sun Jul 22 13:38:07 2001 From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian Hicks) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: ; from jays@panix.com on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 04:00:43PM -0400 References: <20010722124550.B17293@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20010722153807.C13930@magic.com> On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 04:00:43PM -0400, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > Every issue any human being has ever demonstrated about, including > slavery, the death penalty, and the WTO is hard to fully explain in less > than 30 seconds. Here we have the advantage that the secret decoder ring > is not an analogy, but an implementation of one cipher, the > mono-alphabetic substitution, used by an Adobe partner to "protect the > copyright holder's interests". This is slightly off topic, but being a caesar cipher, rot13 is actually less sophisticated than the vast majority of decoder rings. Since a caesar cipher has 26 possibilities (rot13 being the most famous one), and a mono-alphabetic substitution has 26! possibilities. Hell, the Cryptoquip in the paper is more complex than Adobe's encryption by several orders of magnitude. -- Brian Hicks* "Crush the lesser races! Conquer the PGP: 0xADDD1F16 galaxy! Incredible power, unlimited rice pudding, et cetera, et cetera." *Not Brian Behlendorf -- The Doctor -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010722/a4b6a473/attachment.pgp From harrold at sage.che.pitt.edu Sun Jul 22 13:45:32 2001 From: harrold at sage.che.pitt.edu (harrold@sage.che.pitt.edu) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: |Sometimes companies do not correctly estimate the best way to make money. |I believe that by clearly arranging to make it easy for buyers of books to |exercise the traditional rights of fair use, Adobe will make more money. |Means of preventing mass distribution of works the copyright holder does |not want distributed are already available, and so far as we can see, |effective. Napster is closed. We need not accept that Adobe's interests |require an end to fair use. We might put some effort to presenting other |strategems of commerce to Adobe. | i really dont think you can call the closing of nampster effective. sure their number of users has dropped, but that doesnt mean that the people are not still getting the copyrighted materials. napster went down and many others poped up in its place. it's going to become a game of wack the mole pretty soon. john From mickeym at mindspring.com Sun Jul 22 13:39:40 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (Mickey McGown) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why the DMCA is a bad law References: <01072215482009.03179@frankie> Message-ID: <3B5B3A0C.4BEFC1E8@mindspring.com> Here's how I explained it on the ADBE chat base where the point had been made that, "Digital content is more vulnerable!": > "Unfortunately though, the statement of "stealing access to something that is already > mine should not be seen as bad" is true but a bit misleading." > > Misleading? Only to the extent of, if you will, "Digital content is much more > vulnerable!" > > Digital content is no more or less "vulnerable" than analog content. None. We will be > scanning and printing blue jeans in only a couple of years, in spite of the jeans being > released in analog. > > Sklyarov is in jail because it is now a crime to know how to do low-level computer > functions. People that understand the physical layer of electronics are being asked to > join in a kind secrecy vow with the authors of copyrighted works, now backed by > force of law. > > Here's how it happened, IMHO: > > First, whatever is meant by "vulnerable" gets twisted to mean "future harm" which is > then shortened to just plain "harm" and then gets used as a basis for a lawsuit. > > Then, "content" gets promptly turned into "copyrighted work" but then makes the > artistic leap into "intellectual property" which is then, of course, just shortened into > "property." > > After that, it is easy to see how the "property" can be "stolen." But what happens next > is scary: > > Words, spoken and written (formerly known as speech), are now easily regulated by > calling them "functional." Functional things are called "devices", btw. When there is a > functional aspect to what you say, it is more akin to "conduct" which is , of course, > something that you can be sued over. > > The subtle difference between a "verb" and an "action" is then airbrushed over, > "speaking" is then called "distribution", which means "trafficking". If the speaker > knows the subject material well, then why not call that "intent", that's easier. > > So, Sklyarov, with "intent", did "traffick" in a "device" that causes "harm" because it > makes someone's "property" to become "vulnerable." > > What's so misleading? > mickeym Andrew Lawrence wrote: > The following is an excerpt from a rather long letter I am composing to my > Member of Parliment concerning a planned revision to the Canadian Copyright > Act. While there is a distinctly Canadian flavour in wording, the arguement > is I believe valid and can be applied to copyright laws anywhere, especially > the DMCA. > > > First, I believe it is important to state the purpose of the copyright. > Quoting from "A Guide to Copyrights" (January 200), published by the Canadian > Intellectual Property Office, "Its purpose, like that of other pieces of > intellectual property legislation, is to protect owners while promoting > creativity and the orderly exchange of ideas." This I believe is a noble > goal. Writers, musicians, scientists, et al, should be rewarded and > encouraged to create so that our society can enjoy and benefit from their > works as much as possible. Unfortuately, I find that in Canada today > copyright has been transformed into "intellectual property" and then, in the > words of the motion picture and music publishers, into "our property". > Copyright is no longer a creative incentive to our society, but a means of > acquiring wealth for a few large, mostly foreign, corporations that now > control the publication and distribution of "intellectual property" worldwide. > > This is a trend that I believe any revision to the Copyright Act should be > tailored to reverse. > > > For Americans, change the quote to the appropriate article of the US > Constitution, I'm too lazy to look it up, change Copyright Act to DMCA and > Canada to US and remove "mostly foreign" from the last sentence. > > Other Nationalities are on their own... > > PS: > > Copyright 2001 Andrew Lawrence. Permission to copy, change, adopt, reject > and claim as your own is granted to anyone and everyone. > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From gbroiles at well.com Sun Jul 22 13:54:44 2001 From: gbroiles at well.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Legal Technical In-Reply-To: <0107221348.0JEH900@lowerlights.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010722135112.03f9eec0@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 01:48 PM 7/22/2001 -0700, kastlyn@lowerlights.com wrote: >Seth Finkelstein wrote: > > > IANAL either, but please examine the text of > > > >http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/1201.html > > > >Sec. 1201. Circumvention of copyright protection systems > > > > (a) Violations Regarding Circumvention of Technological Measures. > > - (1)(A) No person shall circumvent a technological measure that > >effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. > > > >[then goes into modifications, additional offenses, defenses, etc.] > >Well, then, there are no grounds for arrest, because Adobe's technological >measure doesn't "effectively" control access to anything. =} No, keep reading - (b)(2)(B) says that "a technological measure ''effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title'' if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, prevents, restricts, or otherwise limits the exercise of a right of a copyright owner under this title." (the last bit is cumbersome - I'm not sure they really really meant to say "copyright owner" - but "effectively control" isn't going to turn on what's "effective", as that's normally used in the crypto/security communities.) -- Greg Broiles gbroiles@well.com From jays at panix.com Sun Jul 22 13:56:27 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001 harrold@sage.che.pitt.edu wrote: > > |Sometimes companies do not correctly estimate the best way to make money. > |I believe that by clearly arranging to make it easy for buyers of books to > |exercise the traditional rights of fair use, Adobe will make more money. > |Means of preventing mass distribution of works the copyright holder does > |not want distributed are already available, and so far as we can see, > |effective. Napster is closed. We need not accept that Adobe's interests > |require an end to fair use. We might put some effort to presenting other > |strategems of commerce to Adobe. > | > > i really dont think you can call the closing of nampster effective. sure > their number of users has dropped, but that doesnt mean that the people > are not still getting the copyrighted materials. napster went down and > many others poped up in its place. it's going to become a game of wack the > mole pretty soon. > > > john I believe that ordinary non-DMCA means will whack enough moles fast enough that no massive copyright violating system such as Napster will survive. There is a danger that the Copyright Englobulators of Earth will succeed in outlawing encrypted packets at the ISP and backbone level. Indeed that is the main danger here. But I think we can keep encrypted packets allowed, and still make it possible to suppress such things as Napster. This is a large subject which I shall not write much on here. oo--JS. From fegray at uiuc.edu Sun Jul 22 14:02:44 2001 From: fegray at uiuc.edu (fegray@uiuc.edu) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release Message-ID: <20010722160244.B29065@npl.uiuc.edu> Hi, folks, It's worth noting that many major universities have a publishing arm, and many of them are members of the American Association of Publishers. This is the organization that issued a news release in support of the charges against Dmitry Sklyarov. For those of you who are still associated with a university, you can look up your institution in the AAP's membership list: http://www.publishers.org/home/abouta/members.htm If they are there, I would suggest that you try to contact the relevant people on your campus to discuss the issue with them. I have appended the message that I just sent to the designated contact person at the U of I Press... Thanks, -- Fred Gray *** FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV *** http://www.freesklyarov.org *** Paul, I am writing to you in your capacity as Electronic Publisher at the U of I Press. I am a graduate student in the physics department at UIUC, and I am extremely concerned about a recent news release by the American Association of Publishers (AAP), of which the U of I Press is a member. It is currently available online at http://www.publishers.org/home/press/index.htm This news release applauds the actions of the U.S. government in arresting and charging Dmitry Sklyarov under the criminal provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). On the contrary, an academic publisher should be OUTRAGED by these charges. Dmitry Sklyarov is charged with writing a program which allows the original purchaser of an eBook to convert it into the more readily useful PDF file format. In this format, it is possible for the customer to move the file from one computer to another, to make backup copies, to print it, and to copy short excerpts from it. These operations all constitute non-infringing fair use of the copyrighted work, and there is nothing illegal about them. However, the DMCA criminalizes the creation and distribution of this software tool itself, labeling it a "circumvention device." This is true even though there is no evidence that it has ever been used to make even one infringing copy of a copyrighted work. The DMCA nullifies the public's fair use rights by prohibiting any mechanism that would allow them to be exercised. Computer programs are also a form of speech; they have been found by the courts to be entitled to at least as much First Amendment protection as other "functional" expression. The DMCA declares a particular class of programs ("circumvention devices") to be unlawful. This is nearly equivalent to banning all books on a particular subject (picking locks, for example), and it seems reasonable to hope that the DMCA will be found on this basis to be unconstitutional. I found the following gem on the U of I Press web site: The University of Illinois Press has made a commitment to poetry in a time when most publishing decisions are made according to the bottom line. We can't measure such a commitment in financial terms, however. It is important that we publish poetry, so we do. Similarly, support of academic publishers for freedom of expression and fair use rights probably cannot be justified in terms of the current bottom line. However, these rights are important, so publishers should support them. You should make it clear to the AAP and to the community that the position articulated in the AAP news release does not represent the opinion of the U of I Press. Would you please forward this message to those within the U of I Press who might be interested? Also, I would like to schedule an appointment with the appropriate people in your organization to discuss this issue in person. Would you refer me to the individuals whom I should contact? Thank you very much for your concern, -- Fred Gray *** FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV *** http://www.freesklyarov.org *** From harrold at sage.che.pitt.edu Sun Jul 22 14:04:08 2001 From: harrold at sage.che.pitt.edu (harrold@sage.che.pitt.edu) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010722125621.007e2a40@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: Sometime in July David Honig assaulted keyboard and produced... |At 02:55 PM 7/22/01 -0400, harrold@sage.che.pitt.edu wrote: |>the eff |>is trying to do what is best for sklyarov. | |Interesting question. Doing best for DS is not guaranteed to be ideal |for the EFF's goals. | you are correct in this respect-it's a question of priorities. i think getting ds out of jail is more important that using him to overturn the dmca. unless he is willing to be used in such a manner then i'm fine with that. i think his freedom takes first priority. the original poster was rather condeming towards the eff because the eff asked to postpone the protests. i think it is easy to comment on the weakness of the eff when you are sitting in front of your computer. perhaps we should all be thrown into a prison in a foreign country for breaking a law that doesnt even apply in our native state. -- john From tom at lemuria.org Sun Jul 22 14:01:00 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: ; from jays@panix.com on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 04:56:27PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010722230057.A10961@lemuria.org> On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 04:56:27PM -0400, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > There is a danger that the Copyright Englobulators of Earth will succeed > in outlawing encrypted packets at the ISP and backbone level. not going to happen. VPN is a *huge* topic right now, and several carriers strive to offer it to everyone who comes and pays. incidently, VPN outside the carrier network requires encryption. :) -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From jays at panix.com Sun Jul 22 14:09:15 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: <20010722230057.A10961@lemuria.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Tom wrote: > On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 04:56:27PM -0400, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > > There is a danger that the Copyright Englobulators of Earth will succeed > > in outlawing encrypted packets at the ISP and backbone level. > > not going to happen. VPN is a *huge* topic right now, and several > carriers strive to offer it to everyone who comes and pays. > incidently, VPN outside the carrier network requires encryption. :) Here is how encryption could be denied to individuals: You must get a license to run a VPN, or indeed any encryption, and licenses are only issued to responsible entities. Licenses cost $10,000 for one year, with a small per node fee in addition. oo--JS. From rithban at yahoo.com Sun Jul 22 14:19:25 2001 From: rithban at yahoo.com (Rithban) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] SALT LAKE CITY PROTEST A GO Message-ID: <20010722211925.92199.qmail@web12302.mail.yahoo.com> Just a FYI. Plans are well under way. The contact person is still: Chris Thompson cdthompson@home.com 801-231-6822 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ericeldred at usa.net Sun Jul 22 14:20:13 2001 From: ericeldred at usa.net (Eric Eldred) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] locking up books Message-ID: <20010722212013.29014.qmail@awcst094.netaddress.usa.net> > Message: 10 > Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 16:22:43 -0400 > From: Seth Finkelstein > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Cc: Eric Eldred > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] locking up books > > Eric Eldred wrote: > > > > It is hard for me to understand how companies > > such as Adobe expect to lock up books with DRMs. > > It doesn't have to be perfect. It just > has to protect the business model so it is > profitable. This is something techies > DESPERATELY need to understand. What is at > stake is not an intellectual puzzle. That > is, saying "You can't make an unsolvable puzzle" > (== unbreakable crypto), is off-point. > > What is at stake is a business model > protected by both law and technology. Even > if neither is perfect, as long as the outcome > is profitable, that's good enough. > > Many people on this list argue in effect, > that because the technology used as been relatively > weak, the corporations are somehow in error for > also relying on law, and should just get better > technology. > > I have a feeling that they'd reply that in terms > of cost-benefit, they reached diminishing returns via > technology, but the law is doing wonderfully well > for them. > > -- > Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com Yes, these companies are trying to do with the law what they fail to do with technology. But the impact on us technologists is severe. It means that cryptographic scientists can't even disclose publicly what they found wrong with weak schemes by companies such as Adobe or the DVD-CCA. And when speaking to the people on the street we should not overlook the big picture. Not one of them ever asked Adobe to lock up books for them. Every one of them would prefer to buy a book for keeps and to enjoy all fair use of it. Publishers will not be putting out ebooks in PDF format or under Adobe's DRMs; they will instead move to Microsoft LIT format--even worse. Instead, we should remind publishers that readers don't want books locked up in the first place. Neither do authors. It is only the big publishers and their technologic accomplices who are the ones who want to maintain their obsolete business models by locking up books. I say boycott all locked-up ebooks! Read free electronic books instead. See my site http://www.eldritchpress.org - two ebooks I "converted" from Microsoft .lit format are at http://www.eldritchpress.org/wwone/threes.html http://www.eldritchpress.org/rl/bigtown.htm (The DMCA prevents me from telling anybody else how to do this or "aid and abet" anyone gaining access in any "unauthorized" way, even though the underlying content of the ebooks is in the public domain.) ____ "Eric" Eric Eldred mailto:ericeldred@usa.net http://eldred.ne.mediaone.net "Eldritch Press" ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 From izel at sulam.com Sun Jul 22 14:29:14 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation Message-ID: Jay Sulzberger jays@panix.com wrote: >Here is how encryption could be denied to individuals: Being able to tell encrypted packets apart from nonencrypted packets seems to me to be a very nontrivial problem. Even moreso when you have to do it at the rate of many millions of packets per second. Even if encrypted packets from a zillion different programs using a billion different algorithms can somehow all be reliably identified, and blocked, and no unencrypted packets ever mistakenly blocked in the process, there's always steganograpgy to fall back on. I really wouldn't worry about encryption not being available to individuals anytime soon. There would be absolutely no technological means to enforce that sort of ban. Besides, encryption is classified as munitions in the US, and banning individual access to encryption is therefore an outright violation of the Second Amendment. The NRA crowd would be with us on this one. I don't think Bush would willingly want to piss off the NRA crowd anytime soon. From jays at panix.com Sun Jul 22 14:31:24 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: <20010722153807.C13930@magic.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Brian Hicks wrote: > On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 04:00:43PM -0400, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > > Every issue any human being has ever demonstrated about, including > > slavery, the death penalty, and the WTO is hard to fully explain in less > > than 30 seconds. Here we have the advantage that the secret decoder ring > > is not an analogy, but an implementation of one cipher, the > > mono-alphabetic substitution, used by an Adobe partner to "protect the > > copyright holder's interests". > > This is slightly off topic, but being a caesar cipher, rot13 is actually > less sophisticated than the vast majority of decoder rings. Since a > caesar cipher has 26 possibilities (rot13 being the most famous one), and > a mono-alphabetic substitution has 26! possibilities. > > Hell, the Cryptoquip in the paper is more complex than Adobe's encryption > by several orders of magnitude. > > -- > Brian Hicks* "Crush the lesser races! Conquer the Not off topic. On topic. Makes the quick explanation better: An Adobe product that sells for $3000 is feeble compared to the "secret decoder ring", and a man sits in jail because Adobe does not want you to know this. Is it an Adobe product, or a joint production of Adobe and a partner? oo--JS. From paul at paultopia.net Sun Jul 22 14:32:26 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] locking up books In-Reply-To: <20010722195939.459.qmail@awcst401.netaddress.usa.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722153028.031a7d80@mail.paultopia.net> At some point soon, one expects (by "one" here I of course mean "me") M$ or someone to come out with some technology to at least disable screen capture for DRM docs. One imagines (see previous parenthetical) that as trivial, especially in active-x land. -PG Eric said >It is easy and cheap enough for any determined >copyist to simply retype the book from the >computer or ebook appliance display. Marginally >more difficult is doing a screen capture and >OCR. -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Jul 22 14:39:58 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: ; from jays@panix.com on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 05:31:24PM -0400 References: <20010722153807.C13930@magic.com> Message-ID: <20010722143958.P20817@zork.net> Jay Sulzberger writes: > Not off topic. On topic. Makes the quick explanation better: > > An Adobe product that sells for $3000 is feeble compared to the "secret > decoder ring", and a man sits in jail because Adobe does not want you to > know this. > > Is it an Adobe product, or a joint production of Adobe and a partner? Adobe acquired the eBook format from a company called GlassBook. http://www.adobe.com/epaper/ebooks/main.html Try out new eBook reading software from Adobe. Acrobat eBook Reader 2.1 is the latest version of the former Glassbook Reader. http://bookstore.glassbook.com/store/default.asp The Adobe (?) Acrobat (?) eBook Reader (formerly called the Glassbook Reader) is your key to the new world of electronic books. It is a completely new software package that enables you to use your existing Windows PC or Macintosh as a sophisticated eBook reading device. To get started, download and install the NEW Adobe Acrobat eBook Reader 2.2. Once you have installed the Reader, you are ready to explore the new world of electronic books. My understanding is that Adobe purchased the other company earlier this year. If I remember correctly, version 2.2 was released in response to the existence of AEBPR, but AEBPR still works with it. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From sethf at sethf.com Sun Jul 22 14:42:05 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? References: Message-ID: <3B5B48AD.9F504CBD@sethf.com> With regard to the conflict between the goals of Free Dmitri/Overturn DMCA, I don't think we have reached a point where there is much tension between them at all. That is, I don't believe anyone is thinking so deviously as to reason that we need a martyr and a test case, so sacrifice Dmitri's well-being by having him be in jail so that The Cause has a rallying-point to overturn the DMCA. There are sometimes tensions such as this. I've seen them in less-extreme form. However, this specific issue is not that sort of problem of martyrs. Rather, it is a question of optimal tactics. -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From jays at panix.com Sun Jul 22 14:49:19 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: [nylug-talk] pleeease arrange a mondayprotest. In-Reply-To: <3B5B484E.67AEE2BE@confusion.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Laurence Berland wrote: > > > Jay Sulzberger wrote: > > > > stuyman@confusion.net, if that is your real name, no protests are off. > > > > That's my real email address. My real name is Laurence Berland. Please forgive me for my flippant and curt remark. > > > Dmitry sits in jail. We protest until he is out. > > To clarify, as has already been pointed out, EFF wants the protests > called off. It would seem many will procede anyway. Yes. It is, I think, right that tomorrow we rally for Dmitry Sklyarov and rally against Adobe who put him jail by using the DMCA, which Adobe lobbied hard for. oo--JS. From douglay at relicorp.com Sun Jul 22 18:48:31 2001 From: douglay at relicorp.com (Doug Lay) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release References: <20010722160244.B29065@npl.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <008601c11319$9aa80fa0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> Excellent idea! I notice that the Association for Computing Machinery and the IEEE are also listed as AAP members. -Doug ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 2:02 PM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release > Hi, folks, > > It's worth noting that many major universities have a publishing arm, > and many of them are members of the American Association of Publishers. This > is the organization that issued a news release in support of the charges > against Dmitry Sklyarov. > > For those of you who are still associated with a university, you can look up > your institution in the AAP's membership list: > > http://www.publishers.org/home/abouta/members.htm > > If they are there, I would suggest that you try to contact the relevant people > on your campus to discuss the issue with them. I have appended the message > that I just sent to the designated contact person at the U of I Press... > > Thanks, > > -- Fred Gray > > *** FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV *** http://www.freesklyarov.org *** > > Paul, > > I am writing to you in your capacity as Electronic Publisher at the > U of I Press. I am a graduate student in the physics department at UIUC, and > I am extremely concerned about a recent news release by the American > Association of Publishers (AAP), of which the U of I Press is a member. It is > currently available online at > > http://www.publishers.org/home/press/index.htm > > This news release applauds the actions of the U.S. government in arresting > and charging Dmitry Sklyarov under the criminal provisions of the Digital > Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). > > On the contrary, an academic publisher should be OUTRAGED by these charges. > > Dmitry Sklyarov is charged with writing a program which allows the original > purchaser of an eBook to convert it into the more readily useful PDF file > format. In this format, it is possible for the customer to move the file from > one computer to another, to make backup copies, to print it, and to copy short > excerpts from it. These operations all constitute non-infringing fair use of > the copyrighted work, and there is nothing illegal about them. However, the > DMCA criminalizes the creation and distribution of this software tool itself, > labeling it a "circumvention device." This is true even though there is no > evidence that it has ever been used to make even one infringing copy of a > copyrighted work. The DMCA nullifies the public's fair use rights by > prohibiting any mechanism that would allow them to be exercised. > > Computer programs are also a form of speech; they have been found by the courts > to be entitled to at least as much First Amendment protection as other > "functional" expression. The DMCA declares a particular class of programs > ("circumvention devices") to be unlawful. This is nearly equivalent to banning > all books on a particular subject (picking locks, for example), and it seems > reasonable to hope that the DMCA will be found on this basis to be > unconstitutional. > > I found the following gem on the U of I Press web site: > > The University of Illinois Press has made a commitment to poetry in a > time when most publishing decisions are made according to the bottom line. > We can't measure such a commitment in financial terms, however. It is > important that we publish poetry, so we do. > > Similarly, support of academic publishers for freedom of expression and fair > use rights probably cannot be justified in terms of the current bottom line. > However, these rights are important, so publishers should support them. > You should make it clear to the AAP and to the community that the position > articulated in the AAP news release does not represent the opinion of the > U of I Press. > > Would you please forward this message to those within the U of I Press who > might be interested? Also, I would like to schedule an appointment with the > appropriate people in your organization to discuss this issue in person. > Would you refer me to the individuals whom I should contact? > > Thank you very much for your concern, > > -- Fred Gray > > *** FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV *** http://www.freesklyarov.org *** > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From paul at paultopia.net Sun Jul 22 14:52:14 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] voices screaming with maniacal laughter (was: Re: locking up books) In-Reply-To: <20010722212013.29014.qmail@awcst094.netaddress.usa.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722154236.031ab100@mail.paultopia.net> Eric said: >Yes, these companies are trying to do with the law what >they fail to do with technology. But the impact on us >technologists is severe. It means that cryptographic >scientists can't even disclose publicly what they found >wrong with weak schemes by companies such as Adobe or >the DVD-CCA. Hence the transcendent virtue anonymity. Raised to a more amusingly extreme level: There's a little strange voice in my head that says "what would happen if a bunch of hackers [or even civil libertarian software engineers... ] were to spend their time exposing/breaking weak encryption, but, rather than simply do it anonymously, 'encrypt' their identities behind ROT-13 or some such... rot... such that, at the very moment the software company target files suit against the doeishly innocent cryptographer, they confess their own violation of the very same act, with hopefully offsetting damages, and -- get this -- for financial advantage! (to protect their market for the flawed product), hence subjecting them to criminal prosecution as well!" Too cute? Watch there's an exception in the DMCA somewhere I don't know about making this impossible. Never actually read it from start to finish. -Paul -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From alansmitheee at hotmail.com Sun Jul 22 21:54:03 2001 From: alansmitheee at hotmail.com (Alan Smithee) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Indymedia/Free Speech Radio News request Message-ID: A friend of mine is a reporter with the Los Angeles Independent Media Center and Free Speech Radio News. She will be covering the events tomorrow and would like to speak with local protest organizers. Sounds bites from protest locations via cell phone would be optimal. If you would like to help with this new coverage, please contact me at this address and I will forward the info on to her. Thanks! AS http://www.copy-right.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From jays at panix.com Sun Jul 22 14:54:46 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: [nylug-talk] pleeease arrange a mondayprotest. In-Reply-To: <200107222152.f6MLqu409632@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Brooklyn Linux Solutions CEO wrote: > I darn anyone to listen to the Adobe testimony for the DMCA > whichi is linked on > > http://www.nyfairuse.org and then come away with any opinion other than > that abode's chief executives need to be censored for this. > > Ruben censured oo--JS. From wild at eff.org Sun Jul 22 14:55:34 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722125118.031a8820@mail.paultopia.net> References: <01072214265006.03179@frankie> <5.1.0.14.0.20010722103434.03a3fe08@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010722103434.03a3fe08@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722145522.03813ff0@pop3.norton.antivirus> LOL! :-) Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 12:52 PM 7/22/2001 -0600, Paul Gowder wrote: >At 12:26 PM 7/22/01, Andrew Lawrence wrote: >>On July 22, 2001 01:35 pm, Will Doherty wrote: >> > We will post a summary once the meeting is complete >> > unless the people at the meeting decide otherwise. >> >>Oh boy... I can see this one coming... >> >>1) Adobe agrees to meet with EFF -> EFF puts protests on hold >>2) Adobe meets with EFF -> EFF agrees to gag order >> >>Please, please, please... prove me wrong! > > > >Quite frankly, the way I see it more likely turning out is > >2. Adobe meets with EFF -> Adobe agrees to gag order (at EFF's request) > >judging by the secret letter, etc. > > -Paul > >-- > -Paul Gowder > >"It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." > - Homer Simpson > > > >-- > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Jul 22 14:55:41 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Get Caught Reading! Message-ID: <20010722145541.Q20817@zork.net> The Association of American Publishers is currently running a campaign called "Get Caught Reading": http://www.publishers.org/home/abouta/camp/kit1.htm http://www.publishers.org/home/abouta/camp/kit3.htm Ways to use the book logo: * Advertisements - please include this logo in all of your consumer and trade advertising that will run in the month of May. * Corrugate display units - print the logo on the bases of your corrugated display units when you next reorder them. * Generic display riser - the book logo could work very well as a generic piece of art for a display riser. Use with a quote from your favorite philosopher or author. * Press releases - use the book logo on all your May hardcover and mass market press releases. * Web pages - add the logo to your home page or somewhere prominent on your web site. Feel free to use the logo in any appropriate place you can think of. We would appreciate your supplying us with a sample of your efforts. You may reproduce the book logo in any size. Use it in black-and-white or full-color. We ask that you obtain approval for any other changes to the logo. AAP contact for approval: Kathryn Blough -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From alansmitheee at hotmail.com Sun Jul 22 21:57:17 2001 From: alansmitheee at hotmail.com (Alan Smithee) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] IRVINE ADOBE OFFICES Message-ID: We should double check this. This web page hasn't been updated since '96 and the phone number no longer works. AS >From: David Honig >To: Andrew Lawrence , free-sklyarov@zork.net >Subject: [free-sklyarov] IRVINE ADOBE OFFICES >Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 13:16:14 -0700 > >I found the Irvine office address from >http://www.educause.edu/memdir/corp-profiles/30880.html >after not finding it on adobe.com > > >Adobe Systems Inc. > >CONTACT > >Greg Gardner >Adobe Systems Inc. >6 Venture Suite 100 >Irvine, CA 92718 >(714) 727-0485 >email: ggardner@adobe.com >URL: http://www.adobe.com > > >Barranca -> Pacifica -> Venture > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From paul at paultopia.net Sun Jul 22 15:00:04 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: <3B5B48AD.9F504CBD@sethf.com> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722155238.031bcc30@mail.paultopia.net> Seth, I must ask. What tactics, as a political/community organizing/legal (I'm in the school that says the three are the same) matter, would justify the EFF's behavior? The EFF has made concessions (monkeywrenching the protests, successfully in at least one case) from a position of weakness (having not yet shown any power with actual action) to negotiate with a party that does not have clear decisionmaking authority (because it's in the DOJ's hands right now). I completely fail to see the thought or the wisdom behind EFF's doing this, and at the same time refusing to disclose their communications with the other side to their supporters, and their only real power base. There's just no way to redeem that kind of behavior. From which we can draw three possible conclusions. 1. The EFF has something really underhanded going on, designed to free Sklyarov and/or overturn the DMCA, that is just too esoteric and brilliant for us lowly mortals to be able to comprehend. 2. The EFF has some ulterior motive, and screw the DMCA/Sklyarov. 3. The EFF is real dumb. I'm leaning toward number three myself. Though number two is also a possibility. I'll go and re-read The Prince, see if Machiavelli has anything to say about the situation that would tend to point toward #1, but all signs say not. -Paul At 03:42 PM 7/22/01, Seth Finkelstein wrote: > With regard to the conflict between the goals of >Free Dmitri/Overturn DMCA, I don't think we have reached a point >where there is much tension between them at all. That is, I >don't believe anyone is thinking so deviously as to reason that we >need a martyr and a test case, so sacrifice Dmitri's well-being >by having him be in jail so that The Cause has a rallying-point >to overturn the DMCA. > > There are sometimes tensions such as this. I've seen >them in less-extreme form. However, this specific issue is not >that sort of problem of martyrs. > > Rather, it is a question of optimal tactics. > >-- >Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com >http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From paul at paultopia.net Sun Jul 22 15:05:06 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722145522.03813ff0@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722125118.031a8820@mail.paultopia.net> <01072214265006.03179@frankie> <5.1.0.14.0.20010722103434.03a3fe08@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010722103434.03a3fe08@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722160439.031dfbe0@mail.paultopia.net> Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize I was joking. Forgive the lack of insight. At 03:55 PM 7/22/01, Will Doherty wrote: >LOL! :-) > >Will Doherty >Online Activist / Media Relations >Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) >Web http://www.eff.org > >Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age >------- > >At 12:52 PM 7/22/2001 -0600, Paul Gowder wrote: >>At 12:26 PM 7/22/01, Andrew Lawrence wrote: >>>On July 22, 2001 01:35 pm, Will Doherty wrote: >>> > We will post a summary once the meeting is complete >>> > unless the people at the meeting decide otherwise. >>> >>>Oh boy... I can see this one coming... >>> >>>1) Adobe agrees to meet with EFF -> EFF puts protests on hold >>>2) Adobe meets with EFF -> EFF agrees to gag order >>> >>>Please, please, please... prove me wrong! >> >> >> >>Quite frankly, the way I see it more likely turning out is >> >>2. Adobe meets with EFF -> Adobe agrees to gag order (at EFF's request) >> >>judging by the secret letter, etc. >> >> -Paul >> >>-- >> -Paul Gowder >> >>"It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." >> - Homer Simpson >> >> >> >>-- >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>free-sklyarov mailing list >>free-sklyarov@zork.net >>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From freesk at hackhawk.net Sun Jul 22 15:11:28 2001 From: freesk at hackhawk.net (hackhawk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Indymedia/Free Speech Radio News request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010722150902.00a05650@localhost> I've forwarded this request to the LA mailing list (freesklyarov@hackhawk.net) to see if anyone can provide you with their numbers. - hh At 09:54 PM 7/22/01 +0000, Alan Smithee wrote: >A friend of mine is a reporter with the Los Angeles Independent Media >Center and Free Speech Radio News. > >She will be covering the events tomorrow and would like to speak with >local protest organizers. Sounds bites from protest locations via cell >phone would be optimal. > >If you would like to help with this new coverage, please contact me at >this address and I will forward the info on to her. > >Thanks! >AS >http://www.copy-right.net > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From wild at eff.org Sun Jul 22 15:10:57 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722160439.031dfbe0@mail.paultopia.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722145522.03813ff0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <4.3.2.7.0.20010722125118.031a8820@mail.paultopia.net> <01072214265006.03179@frankie> <5.1.0.14.0.20010722103434.03a3fe08@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010722103434.03a3fe08@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722150858.036adff8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Dear Paul, I invite you to call me and speak on the phone to discuss if you like. I will be at 415-436-9333 x111 much of this afternoon working on how to get Dmitry out of jail and strategizing for the Adobe meeting tomorrow. Free Dmitry and Reform the DMCA, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 04:05 PM 7/22/2001 -0600, Paul Gowder wrote: >Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize I was joking. Forgive the lack of insight. > >At 03:55 PM 7/22/01, Will Doherty wrote: >>LOL! :-) >> >>Will Doherty >>Online Activist / Media Relations >>Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) >>Web http://www.eff.org >> >>Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age >>------- >> >>At 12:52 PM 7/22/2001 -0600, Paul Gowder wrote: >>>At 12:26 PM 7/22/01, Andrew Lawrence wrote: >>>>On July 22, 2001 01:35 pm, Will Doherty wrote: >>>> > We will post a summary once the meeting is complete >>>> > unless the people at the meeting decide otherwise. >>>> >>>>Oh boy... I can see this one coming... >>>> >>>>1) Adobe agrees to meet with EFF -> EFF puts protests on hold >>>>2) Adobe meets with EFF -> EFF agrees to gag order >>>> >>>>Please, please, please... prove me wrong! >>> >>> >>> >>>Quite frankly, the way I see it more likely turning out is >>> >>>2. Adobe meets with EFF -> Adobe agrees to gag order (at EFF's request) >>> >>>judging by the secret letter, etc. >>> >>> -Paul >>> >>>-- >>> -Paul Gowder >>> >>>"It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." >>> - Homer Simpson >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>free-sklyarov mailing list >>>free-sklyarov@zork.net >>>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > >-- > -Paul Gowder > >"It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." > - Homer Simpson > > > >-- > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From dredd at megacity.org Sun Jul 22 15:12:12 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release In-Reply-To: <008601c11319$9aa80fa0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> References: <20010722160244.B29065@npl.uiuc.edu> <008601c11319$9aa80fa0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> Message-ID: At 6:48 PM -0700 7/22/01, Doug Lay wrote: >I notice that the Association for Computing Machinery and the IEEE are also >listed as AAP members. Just sent to , their member services e-mail address: To: acmhelp@acm.org From: Derek Balling Subject: ACM and the AAP I notice, with some horror, that the ACM is a member of the Association of American Publishers, as noted at: http://www.publishers.org/home/abouta/members.htm The AAP has come out in favor of Adobe's request to the FBI (and the FBI's fulfillment of that request) to have a Russian programmer, Dmitry Sklyarov, arrested and imprisoned for writing and selling software while in his native Russia. That's all it is. They're confusing the issue by bringing up the DMCA, but it doesn't apply as no act was committed on US soil. http://www.publishers.org/home/press/index.htm Obviously, this is distressing, and having wide-reaching effects. Alan Cox has resigned from Usenix's Atlanta Linux Showcase committee, fearing what broad-reaching net the US Government will sling across foreign programmers for what they do in their native lands. It distresses me that a professional organization which I pay dues to annually in turn pays dues to an organization that is proud to imprison foreign nationals for made-up crimes. Please tell me that the ACM will be withdrawing its membership from the AAP forthwith. Given that ACM's membership in the AAP has been noticed by the growing movement protesting Sklyarov's imprisonment, I cannot be the only one making this request of you, so I hope that the ACM will do the right thing here. Thank you for your time, Derek Balling From dredd at megacity.org Sun Jul 22 15:17:27 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP/ACM In-Reply-To: <008601c11319$9aa80fa0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> References: <20010722160244.B29065@npl.uiuc.edu> <008601c11319$9aa80fa0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> Message-ID: At 6:48 PM -0700 7/22/01, Doug Lay wrote: >I notice that the Association for Computing Machinery and the IEEE are also >listed as AAP members. One other thing... a lot of people on this list may be at the OSCON in San Diego, where the ACM always has a booth. Be sure to go up to them, bring up the Sklyarov case, point out that the ACM is a member of an organization that is in favor of the imprisonment (lauds it in fact), and that when your membership comes up for renewal, the decision to renew or not renew will rest squarely with the answer to the question "Does the ACM still belong to the AAP?" D -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From sethf at sethf.com Sun Jul 22 15:21:58 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722155238.031bcc30@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <3B5B5206.D2928EE5@sethf.com> Paul Gowder wrote: > > Seth, I must ask. What tactics, as a political/community organizing/legal > (I'm in the school that says the three are the same) matter, would justify > the EFF's behavior? I just saw Will's reply. Can I just defer this question to him? After all, he knows a lot more about EFF's thinking here than I do! -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From mrmanley at home.com Sun Jul 22 15:35:24 2001 From: mrmanley at home.com (Monty R Manley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Ripple Effect Message-ID: <20010722173524.36a36834.mrmanley@home.com> The ripple effect of this affair is getting bigger and bigger. The AAP comes out in favor of Adobe's actions against Dmitry, but it turns out that the ACM is a member of the AAP. It's hard to imagine that the illustrious ACM would have anything but contempt for the DMCA (have they come out publicly for/against the DMCA?). Librarians, the natural allies of free speech and fair use, are caught in the crossfire between publishers and the readers. Scientists are finding themselves muzzled because their research might embarass or negatively impact a large corporation. Likewise with the G8 protests in Genoa -- much of their cause is the same as this one: not letting corporations trample the rights of individual people. We seem to have had a confluence of events leading up to a critical mass. People are angry -- not just at what happened to Dmitry, but at many things that have happned in the last few years. Our rights are slowly being siphoned away by corporations and their politicain lapdogs, and I'm glad to see that many folks are simply not going to stand for it anymore. I just hope that when Dmitry is freed, things will not go back to "business as usual". We need to keep the pressure on. Free Dmitry, Monty Manley From jays at panix.com Sun Jul 22 15:30:45 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722155238.031bcc30@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Paul Gowder wrote: > Seth, I must ask. What tactics, as a political/community organizing/legal > (I'm in the school that says the three are the same) matter, would justify > the EFF's behavior? The EFF has made concessions (monkeywrenching the > protests, successfully in at least one case) from a position of weakness > (having not yet shown any power with actual action) to negotiate with a > party that does not have clear decisionmaking authority (because it's in > the DOJ's hands right now). I completely fail to see the thought or the > wisdom behind EFF's doing this, and at the same time refusing to disclose > their communications with the other side to their supporters, and their > only real power base. There's just no way to redeem that kind of > behavior. From which we can draw three possible conclusions. > 1. The EFF has something really underhanded going on, designed to free > Sklyarov and/or overturn the DMCA, that is just too esoteric and brilliant > for us lowly mortals to be able to comprehend. > 2. The EFF has some ulterior motive, and screw the DMCA/Sklyarov. > 3. The EFF is real dumb. > > I'm leaning toward number three myself. Though number two is also a > possibility. I'll go and re-read The Prince, see if Machiavelli has > anything to say about the situation that would tend to point toward #1, but > all signs say not. > > -Paul It could easily be 1, whether planned by the EFF or no. No very subtle tactic, just the standard, almost necessary for structural reasons, tactic of: The more middle of the road reformer/revolutionaries are inside negotating with the oppressors while outside the crazies can barely be held in check. oo--JS. From mrmanley at home.com Sun Jul 22 15:44:15 2001 From: mrmanley at home.com (Monty R Manley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Ripple Effect In-Reply-To: <20010722153143.Y86996@networkcommand.com> References: <20010722173524.36a36834.mrmanley@home.com> <20010722153143.Y86996@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010722174415.13d81c4e.mrmanley@home.com> On Sun, 22 Jul 2001 15:31:44 -0700 "Jon O ." wrote: Feel free to quote whatever you wish, but please quote accurately and in context. Thanks, Monty > > Monty: > > Can I quote this? > > Also, if you have any suggestions or input for this site: > http://www.anti-dmca.org > > Let me know... > > > > On 22-Jul-2001, Monty R Manley wrote: > > The ripple effect of this affair is getting bigger and bigger. The AAP > > comes out in favor of Adobe's actions against Dmitry, but it turns out > > that the ACM is a member of the AAP. It's hard to imagine that the > > illustrious ACM would have anything but contempt for the DMCA (have they > > come out publicly for/against the DMCA?). Librarians, the natural allies > > of free speech and fair use, are caught in the crossfire between > > publishers and the readers. Scientists are finding themselves muzzled > > because their research might embarass or negatively impact a large > > corporation. > > > > Likewise with the G8 protests in Genoa -- much of their cause is the same > > as this one: not letting corporations trample the rights of individual > > people. > > > > We seem to have had a confluence of events leading up to a critical mass. > > People are angry -- not just at what happened to Dmitry, but at many > > things that have happned in the last few years. Our rights are slowly > > being siphoned away by corporations and their politicain lapdogs, and I'm > > glad to see that many folks are simply not going to stand for it anymore. > > I just hope that when Dmitry is freed, things will not go back to > > "business as usual". We need to keep the pressure on. > > > > Free Dmitry, > > > > Monty Manley > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu Sun Jul 22 19:40:30 2001 From: junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu (Peter D. Junger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Legal technicality question In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 22 Jul 2001 13:04:39 CDT." <20010722130439.C17293@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <200107230240.f6N2eUm19352@samsara.law.cwru.edu> Dave Sherohman writes: : On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 07:04:36PM -0700, Sam Gray wrote: : > Is personal use of a circumvention device illegal under the DMCA, or is it : > merely "trafficking" that's now a crime? In other words, if I write my own : > software to rip the content from an eBook to exercise my fair use rights, : > can legal action be taken against me? Or is it just when I try to tell : > someone else about it? : : IANAL, etc, but my understanding is that, while they couldn't manage to : ban the _use_ of a circumvention device, creation or aquisition of a : circumvention device were both banned. So you're perfectly free to use : such a program, but you can't get one without violating DMCA. I am afraid that this has it somewhat backwards. It is a violation of 17 U.S.C. 1201(a)(1) for someone to circumvent a protection measure. It is a violation of 17 U.S.C. 1201(a)(1) to manufacture or traffic in a technology or device (which arguably includes writing a computer program or publishing it) that is intended to be used oe is primarily used to violate 17 U.S.C. 1201(a)(1). So, if it is not a violation of 17 U.S.C. 1201(a)(1) for the owner of an ebook to use Sklyarov's program to get around the restrictions built into the Adobe ebook reading software, then it cannot be a violation of 17 U.S.C. 1201(a)(2) for Sklyarov to write his program or to ``traffic'' in it. Originally 1201(a)(2) went into force beore 1201(a)(1), so for a while your statement was true, but it no longer is. For a violation of either section to be a crime it must be for commercial advantage or personal profit (or something like that). -- Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH EMAIL: junger@samsara.law.cwru.edu URL: http://samsara.law.cwru.edu NOTE: junger@pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu no longer exists From snair at utstar.com Sun Jul 22 15:55:44 2001 From: snair at utstar.com (Sreeni R. Nair) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ACM's position vis-a-vis DMCA Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010722185435.00ae6d90@mail.utstar.com> http://www.acm.org/usacm/copyright/DMCA-release.html The ordinary man acts because he thinks his act will be profitable; the superior man, however, acts because he thinks his act is right. -- Confucius From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Jul 22 15:56:22 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Write to each organizational member of the AAP Message-ID: <20010722155622.S20817@zork.net> I want to try to ensure that each member of the Association of American Publishers receives at least one letter opposing the AAP's support of Mr. Sklyarov's arrest, and of the DMCA. If you're interested, please see http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/publishers.html I'll keep track there of which organizations have been written to, if people let me know when they write letters. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From paul at paultopia.net Sun Jul 22 15:56:30 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722155238.031bcc30@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722165155.00a9bf00@mail.paultopia.net> >It could easily be 1, whether planned by the EFF or no. No very subtle >tactic, just the standard, almost necessary for structural reasons, tactic >of: > >The more middle of the road reformer/revolutionaries are inside negotating >with the oppressors while outside the crazies can barely be held in check. > >oo--JS. The problem with good cop/bad cop is that the bad cop has to be involved in the planning too. Otherwise (s)he might listen. There will be a lot less crazies running about outside, now that the EFF has publicly put its credibility behind the idea of "negotiating" with Adobe. I don't think the EFF realizes what it takes to get an action going. The fact that I, for example, called a friend in Seattle (and a veteran of the WTO wars) and asked him to try and turn out people for Seattle, would be damaging to _me_ and my friend if Seattle had agreed to delay like Portland did. I did call Will, and heard only "trust me." Well, sorry, but I don't -- not without a convincing explanation. -Paul -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From jays at panix.com Sun Jul 22 16:10:46 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722165155.00a9bf00@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Paul Gowder wrote: > > >It could easily be 1, whether planned by the EFF or no. No very subtle > >tactic, just the standard, almost necessary for structural reasons, tactic > >of: > > > >The more middle of the road reformer/revolutionaries are inside negotating > >with the oppressors while outside the crazies can barely be held in check. > > > >oo--JS. > > > The problem with good cop/bad cop is that the bad cop has to be involved in > the planning too. Otherwise (s)he might listen. There will be a lot less > crazies running about outside, now that the EFF has publicly put its > credibility behind the idea of "negotiating" with Adobe. Well, the automatic "structural" tactic I have in mind has the advantage that no coordination is required. The crazies will do what they will. That is, the only way Adobe gets off is to get Dmitry out. "good cop-bad cop" is just the vulgar conscious directed version of the deeper and more real "responsible-crazy" sub-correlation of forces. > > I don't think the EFF realizes what it takes to get an action going. The > fact that I, for example, called a friend in Seattle (and a veteran of the > WTO wars) and asked him to try and turn out people for Seattle, would be > damaging to _me_ and my friend if Seattle had agreed to delay like Portland > did. > > I did call Will, and heard only "trust me." Well, sorry, but I don't -- > not without a convincing explanation. > > -Paul My estimate is that the EFF call to hold off on Monday's protests had almost no effect. I have seen few people declare that now they will not protest on Monday. oo--JS. From pmasloch at earthlink.net Sun Jul 22 16:14:55 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722165155.00a9bf00@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: But what is wrong with waiting one more day? It is only one day. You should give them (the EFF) this chance. After that, you can protest 24/7 as much and as long you want. Peter >It could easily be 1, whether planned by the EFF or no. No very subtle >tactic, just the standard, almost necessary for structural reasons, tactic >of: > >The more middle of the road reformer/revolutionaries are inside negotating >with the oppressors while outside the crazies can barely be held in check. > >oo--JS. The problem with good cop/bad cop is that the bad cop has to be involved in the planning too. Otherwise (s)he might listen. There will be a lot less crazies running about outside, now that the EFF has publicly put its credibility behind the idea of "negotiating" with Adobe. I don't think the EFF realizes what it takes to get an action going. The fact that I, for example, called a friend in Seattle (and a veteran of the WTO wars) and asked him to try and turn out people for Seattle, would be damaging to _me_ and my friend if Seattle had agreed to delay like Portland did. I did call Will, and heard only "trust me." Well, sorry, but I don't -- not without a convincing explanation. -Paul -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From honig at sprynet.com Sun Jul 22 16:13:34 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: References: <20010722230057.A10961@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010722161334.00876100@pop.sprynet.com> At 05:09 PM 7/22/01 -0400, Jay Sulzberger wrote: >> not going to happen. VPN is a *huge* topic right now, and several >> carriers strive to offer it to everyone who comes and pays. >> incidently, VPN outside the carrier network requires encryption. :) > >Here is how encryption could be denied to individuals: > >You must get a license to run a VPN, or indeed any encryption, and >licenses are only issued to responsible entities. Licenses cost $10,000 >for one year, with a small per node fee in addition. > >oo--JS. > Ok fine, so you use stego to put the messages into baby pictures. Then they outlaw stego code. And require you to run a govt monitor program on your machine in order to connect. That of course is a full police state, equivalent to a camera in every room. Welcome to Dark Ages II. Can we get back to helping this programmer/grad (could be *you*) and leave cypherpunk dystopias to another list? From crism at maden.org Sun Jul 22 16:20:03 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sign ideas Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010722161819.00b0bec0@mail.maden.org> I'll be bringing to San Jos? tomorrow: IF YOU CAN READ THIS, GO TO JAIL (in mirrored writing) and eBook Professionals for Dmitry Each of my signs will have, at the bottom, a Statue of Liberty, a not-DMCA sign, and a not-Adobe logo. Additionally, because I get all of my backpacks and totebags at conferences, they all seem to have Adobe logos on them. I'll be crossing them out with poster paint and bringing the bag of choice anyway. Other ideas: F U CN RD THS, G.T. JL LIAJ TO GO ,SIHT DAER NAC UOY FI CODING IS NOT A CRIME END CORPORATE THUGGERY ADOBE = CORPORATE BULLIES THE COURTS ARE NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR THE MARKETPLACE -crism -- Christopher R. Maden, XML Consultant DTDs/schemas - conversion - ebooks - publishing - Web - B2B - training PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From ilya at theIlya.com Sun Jul 22 16:21:45 2001 From: ilya at theIlya.com (Ilya Volynets) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] locking up books In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722153028.031a7d80@mail.paultopia.net> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722153028.031a7d80@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <0107221621450F.19305@gateway> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Another one imagines, that that would require major (or at least minor) system rewrite, as screen capture happens on system level. One can (or at least could) always read screen bitmap. NOTE: My opinion roots in 3-year old data, when I was last time dirrectly working with inferior Winfows GDI API. On Sunday 22 July 2001 14:32, Paul Gowder wrote: > At some point soon, one expects (by "one" here I of course mean "me") M$ or > someone to come out with some technology to at least disable screen capture > for DRM docs. One imagines (see previous parenthetical) that as trivial, > especially in active-x land. > > -PG > > Eric said > > >It is easy and cheap enough for any determined > >copyist to simply retype the book from the > >computer or ebook appliance display. Marginally > >more difficult is doing a screen capture and > >OCR. > > -- > -Paul Gowder > > "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." > - Homer Simpson > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtbYBIACgkQtKh84cA8u2mdsgCeKB3s0FqPkHJA5UK/7Thg9MV/ GP4AniBenDv2VS+MWgOHQy3jMhvAeaOv =eZD4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Jul 22 16:22:25 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release In-Reply-To: ; from dredd@megacity.org on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 03:12:12PM -0700 References: <20010722160244.B29065@npl.uiuc.edu> <008601c11319$9aa80fa0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> Message-ID: <20010722162225.U20817@zork.net> Derek Balling writes: > At 6:48 PM -0700 7/22/01, Doug Lay wrote: > >I notice that the Association for Computing Machinery and the IEEE are also > >listed as AAP members. > > Just sent to , their member services e-mail address: > > To: acmhelp@acm.org > From: Derek Balling > Subject: ACM and the AAP > > I notice, with some horror, that the ACM is a member of the > Association of American Publishers, as noted at: > http://www.publishers.org/home/abouta/members.htm > > The AAP has come out in favor of Adobe's request to the FBI (and the > FBI's fulfillment of that request) to have a Russian programmer, > Dmitry Sklyarov, arrested and imprisoned for writing and selling > software while in his native Russia. That's all it is. They're > confusing the issue by bringing up the DMCA, but it doesn't apply as > no act was committed on US soil. > http://www.publishers.org/home/press/index.htm I wrote to Dr. Barbara Simons, who has been ACM President and a long-time DMCA opponent, to let her know and ask her to spread the word. It is _abundantly_ clear that the ACM oppose the DMCA, and has been working hard against it. http://www.acm.org/usacm/copyright/ -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From honig at sprynet.com Sun Jul 22 16:20:52 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010722162052.0087dc20@pop.sprynet.com> At 05:29 PM 7/22/01 -0400, Izel Sulam wrote: > >Being able to tell encrypted packets apart from nonencrypted packets seems >to me to be a very nontrivial problem. Even moreso when you have to do it You measure the entropy of the packet. Encrypted data has higher entropy. Please, back to Dmitri, ok? From honig at sprynet.com Sun Jul 22 16:27:22 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722165155.00a9bf00@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010722162722.00875bb0@pop.sprynet.com> At 07:14 PM 7/22/01 -0400, Peter wrote: >But what is wrong with waiting one more day? It is only one day. You >should give >them (the EFF) this chance. After that, you can protest 24/7 as much and >as long you want. >Peter But its pretty soliphistic if you don't try to drum up media attention. So include that too. Let my people go, From ilya at theIlya.com Sun Jul 22 16:29:35 2001 From: ilya at theIlya.com (Ilya Volynets) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0107221629350G.19305@gateway> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 22 July 2001 16:14, Peter wrote: > But what is wrong with waiting one more day? It is only one day. You > should give > them (the EFF) this chance. After that, you can protest 24/7 as much and > as long you want. > Peter > Peronally I would eb hurt MOST if it was one (or even two or three days), since I rescheduled seertaint things to other days next week in order to be In San Jose on monday. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtbYeIACgkQtKh84cA8u2l78gCgmAz+OlLnsVkEY5glmSODbDDH 02kAn0fchqhJJNMqRlnZKLwoNrtaWowp =FFxt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dredd at megacity.org Sun Jul 22 16:32:08 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release In-Reply-To: <20010722162225.U20817@zork.net> References: <20010722160244.B29065@npl.uiuc.edu> <008601c11319$9aa80fa0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> <20010722162225.U20817@zork.net> Message-ID: At 4:22 PM -0700 7/22/01, Seth David Schoen wrote: >I wrote to Dr. Barbara Simons, who has been ACM President and a >long-time DMCA opponent, to let her know and ask her to spread the >word. > >It is _abundantly_ clear that the ACM oppose the DMCA, and has been >working hard against it. > >http://www.acm.org/usacm/copyright/ > I agree that they appear to be against it, but so long as they remain a member of an organization that lauds it, they are hypocrites unworthy of my dues money. :) D -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From freesk at hackhawk.net Sun Jul 22 16:36:29 2001 From: freesk at hackhawk.net (hackhawk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] LA Rally Information Posted. Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010722163317.00a5f2e0@localhost> I've posted the following information on the Los Angeles Rally web site (http://www.hackhawk.net). WHEN/WHERE Date : 23-Jul-2001 Time : 11am - ???? Location : Westwood Federal Building 11000 Wilshire Boulevard Approximately 1 block east of the 405 freeway. There is typically plenty of parking behind the Federal Building. However, there are several parking lots just North of Wilshire Boulevard as well. Yes you need to pay for them, it is LA afterall. :-) Sign Content is currently being discussed. From pmasloch at earthlink.net Sun Jul 22 16:36:12 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010722162722.00875bb0@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: I just think that some people here over reacting. There are many other ways to get attention from the media. As example, i believe that the resigning from Alan Cox brought more media attention then any protest on the street will bring. Peter (Sorry, if my english is not correct. English is not my natuaral language) At 07:14 PM 7/22/01 -0400, Peter wrote: >But what is wrong with waiting one more day? It is only one day. You >should give >them (the EFF) this chance. After that, you can protest 24/7 as much and >as long you want. >Peter But its pretty soliphistic if you don't try to drum up media attention. So include that too. Let my people go, From jays at panix.com Sun Jul 22 16:41:39 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010722161334.00876100@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, David Honig wrote: > At 05:09 PM 7/22/01 -0400, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > >> not going to happen. VPN is a *huge* topic right now, and several > >> carriers strive to offer it to everyone who comes and pays. > >> incidently, VPN outside the carrier network requires encryption. :) > > > >Here is how encryption could be denied to individuals: > > > >You must get a license to run a VPN, or indeed any encryption, and > >licenses are only issued to responsible entities. Licenses cost $10,000 > >for one year, with a small per node fee in addition. > > > >oo--JS. > > > > Ok fine, so you use stego to put the messages into baby pictures. > > Then they outlaw stego code. And require you to run a govt monitor program > on your machine in order to connect. > > That of course is a full police state, equivalent to a camera in every room. > > Welcome to Dark Ages II. > > Can we get back to helping this programmer/grad (could be *you*) > and leave cypherpunk dystopias to another list? No. You are wrong in your stance and wrong on the particulars. Do you know of the "CPRM" proposal to place one meg of spy hardware/firmware/software into every IDE had drive made after 1 August 2001? This spy stuff would be capable of scanning your whole hard disk and sending back encrypted reports to Infotainment Central. This spy stuff would also allow Infotainment Central to disable your hard drive, whether or not you wished your hard drive disabled. Are you aware that the proposal almost passed? Are you aware that Dmitry Sklyarov sits in jail today because Adobe is trying to keep people from finding out that Adobe uses rot13 to protect valuable material? Perhaps you have not heard of the costs of defending 2600 against a frivolous suit brought by the MPAA? Perhaps you have not heard of the massive placement of spy cameras in our cities? oo--JS. From nicolayisaac at home.com Sun Jul 22 16:53:12 2001 From: nicolayisaac at home.com (nicolayisaac) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] rally in Salem, OR at the capitol Message-ID: <00be01c11309$77bbe300$0100a8c0@C1695327A> Hey, just seeing if there are any others that would be willing to gather in protest in Salem, OR at the state capitol -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010722/8fe91e8f/attachment.htm From sean at thefreevoice.org Sun Jul 22 16:56:41 2001 From: sean at thefreevoice.org (Sean DuVally) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] News and Links- The Free Voice Message-ID: <3B5B6839.97F41CD9@thefreevoice.org> I have a page dedicated to Dmitry info here http://thefreevoice.org/freedmitry.html And I aso update the news frequently, for this and many other freedom issues, Vosit http://thefreevoice.org Sean From robertl1 at home.com Sun Jul 22 17:03:21 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722150858.036adff8@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722160439.031dfbe0@mail.paultopia.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20010722145522.03813ff0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <4.3.2.7.0.20010722125118.031a8820@mail.paultopia.net> <01072214265006.03179@frankie> <5.1.0.14.0.20010722103434.03a3fe08@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010722103434.03a3fe08@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722170036.02ab1990@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> At 03:10 PM 7/22/01 -0700, you wrote: >Dear Paul, > >I invite you to call me and speak on the phone >to discuss if you like. I will be at >415-436-9333 x111 much of this afternoon >working on how to get Dmitry out of >jail and strategizing for the Adobe >meeting tomorrow. > >Free Dmitry and Reform the DMCA, > >Will Doherty >Online Activist / Media Relations >Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) >Web http://www.eff.org > >Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age >------- So Will, Could we get back to the subject line. For those of us planning other efforts it is important to know the Time of the Adobe/EFF meeting. Or is that another top secret? Free Dmitry and Reform the DMCA, Bob La Quey From vadim_t at teleline.es Sun Jul 22 17:02:26 2001 From: vadim_t at teleline.es (vadim) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Idea... Message-ID: <01072302022601.19942@sheelab.dynodns.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 This is partly an idea from slashdot (http://slashdot.org/articles/01/07/22/0044234.shtml, Retarded Laws), but there's some of my own too. What's happening here is that a the DMCA is trying to forbid people from picking a lock. If the act of simply explaining how to open a door or decrypt encrypted data is illegal, imagine what would happen if this was applied globally? Think about movies where a detective picks a lock or a delinquent robs a bank. Some movies explain in a quite great detail a bank's security system and how to break it. If the DMCA is ever applied globally, that will make a really incredible amount of information illegal. Suddenly, movies, books, articles in newspapers and many other thing will suddenly become illegal because they explain how to pick a lock. This must never happen. - -- Vadim -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtbaZwACgkQnvzZ1YJQgWSY3gCgphOY9eD+nKEOFhkuXzFu3DXe qbwAoIloTC0j9W0IZtB9hxEp4h0FfEOK =oiNB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From karl.deabrew at binarything.com Sun Jul 22 17:12:56 2001 From: karl.deabrew at binarything.com (Karl De Abrew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ROT 13 Message-ID: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD0291CB4E1@mail.roundtable.com.au> > Hell, the Cryptoquip in the paper is more complex than > Adobe's encryption > by several orders of magnitude. In fairness, it should be pointed out here that the Adobe ROT13 security commonly referred to was a sample in the Adobe Acrobat 4.05 Software Development Kit. It would appear that a third-party has chosen to implement this "example" as production code. For more information and to download the Acrobat 4.05 SDK: http://partners.adobe.com/asn/developer/acrosdk/docs405.html Specifically, see Samples documentation 11/10/99 (PDF: 80 KB / 15 pages) http://partners.adobe.com/asn/developer/acrosdk/docs/samples.pdf Quoted from page 11. ------------------ 30 Rot13 Rot13 demonstrates how to create a simple custom security handler. The new security handler takes a password ("bluemoon") and rotates all of the letters by 13 characters and stores that in the file. Illustrates . Registering a custom security handler . Modifying crypt data and basic COS manipulation Source . (Mac OS) PLUG-IN:SAMPLES:ROT13 . (Windows) PLUG-IN\SAMPLES\ROT13 ------------------ -Karl _________________________________________ Karl De Abrew karl.deabrew@binarything.com http://www.planetpdf.com/ http://www.planetebook.com/ http://www.xmlarena.com/ http://www.binarything.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network From nick at zork.net Sun Jul 22 17:15:17 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Idea... In-Reply-To: <01072302022601.19942@sheelab.dynodns.net>; from vadim_t@teleline.es on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 02:02:26AM +0200 References: <01072302022601.19942@sheelab.dynodns.net> Message-ID: <20010722171517.M27349@zork.net> Begin vadim quotation: > What's happening here is that a the DMCA is trying to forbid people > from picking a lock. In fact, the DMCA does no such thing. It forbids people to make or sell any tool which could possibly be used to "pick a lock". Taking the analogy just a step further, this is dangerous because it threatens the manufacturers and vendors of hairpins, screwdrivers, and plastic credit cards, all of which could be used to circumvent the mechanism of various physical locks. What makes this analogy even more frightening is that the lock is keeping the customer in, not out! Of course, analogies are just that. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From ausage at ausage.com Sun Jul 22 17:14:29 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release In-Reply-To: <20010722162225.U20817@zork.net> References: <20010722160244.B29065@npl.uiuc.edu> <20010722162225.U20817@zork.net> Message-ID: <0107222014290D.03179@frankie> On July 22, 2001 07:22 pm, Seth David Schoen wrote: > I wrote to Dr. Barbara Simons, who has been ACM President and a > long-time DMCA opponent, to let her know and ask her to spread the > word. > > It is _abundantly_ clear that the ACM oppose the DMCA, and has been > working hard against it. If the ACM would come on board with the EFF and issue a press release it would certainly help garner credibility and media attention and do a lot to help Dimitry. -- Andrew Lawrence Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 From sethf at sethf.com Sun Jul 22 17:22:23 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] History - 1989 Lotus "look-and-feel" protest Message-ID: <20010722202223.A13445@sethf.com> There may be some inspiration to be found in this message: http://hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives/back.issues/1991.volume.11/vol11.iss351-400 [4155] daemon@LCS.MIT.EDU bboard 05/30/89 15:02 (56 lines) Subject: Protest Against Lotus Successful; Let's Organize Permanently Date: Tue, 30 May 89 14:54:09 EDT From: rms@ai.mit.edu To: bboard@ai.mit.edu Despite the threat of rain, we had large turnout for the protest against user-interface copyright on Wednesday: 160 to 180, depending on whose count. (The counts failed to include a couple of professors who showed up just as we were leaving.) Bryan Kocher, president of the National ACM (Association for Computing Machinery), marched with us. The organizers made around 30 signs, and many of the other participants made their own. The best sign showed a strait jacket and the caption, "Don't make me wear your suit." Once we were there, the picketers all tried their hand at inventing euphonious chants. The best ones were: 1-2-3 is not for me / Say no to monopoly. Put your lawyers in their place: / No one owns the interface. Hey, hey! Ho, ho! / Software tyranny's got to go. Apple, Lotus, Look-and-feel: / Let's go reinvent the wheel. And the world's first protest chant in hex: 1, 2, 3, 4 / Kick the lawsuit out the door. 5, 6, 7, 8 / Innovate, don't litigate. 9, A, B, C / Freedom, not monopoly. D, E, F, 0 / Look-and-feel has got to go. We were covered by reporters from the Associated Press, Reuters, Info World, Computerworld, PC Week, MIS Week, MacWeek, Computer Reseller News, National Public Radio, the Boston Herald, and the Boston Globe. The stories I have seen are sympathetic and present our arguments well. The AP article was carried in newspapers around the country. All in all, we have done good work for the cause. Numerous people said they could not attend but would like to help fight "Look-and-Feel" in some other way. To make this possible, I would like to make the League for Programming Freedom into a permanent grass-roots organization. ... From noring at olagrande.net Sun Jul 22 17:22:21 2001 From: noring at olagrande.net (noring@olagrande.net) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Press Release: Electronic Publishers Coalition Condemns Criminal Use of DMCA Message-ID: <200107230022.TAA01633@og1.olagrande.net> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE July 22, 2001 Contact information: Connie Foster, eBooksonthe.net, publisher@ebooksonthe.net, 207-667-6515 Jon Noring, Blue Glass Publishing, noring@olagrande.net, 801-253-4037 Roger Sperberg, Watchung Plaza Books, roger@e-bks.com, 973-744-7802 URL: http://www.epccentral.org/dmca.html Electronic Publishers Coalition Condemns Criminal Use of DMCA While all publishers are concerned about professional copyright thieves, the Electronic Publishers Coalition condemns the use of the criminal provisions of the DMCA against Dimitry Sklyarov, a Russian programmer and cryptanalyst visiting the United States. "Persecution of an individual shouldn't be any company's response to a commercial disagreement, especially regarding copyright," Connie Foster, the EPC executive director said Sunday. "All members of the EPC -- not just a small portion of them as with print-oriented groups like the AAP -- work with the Adobe and other electronic formats to publish their e-books, and we recognize that the same technology that benefits publishers with lower production and distribution costs also aids copyright violators." "We also recognize from our close experience working with electronic books, that readers need and deserve greater leeway with the e-books they purchase than the current limited DRM and security technology provides," Foster stated. (Note: DRM -- for digital rights management -- provides permissions control with e-books, disallowing [or permitting] such things as copying text to a computer's clipboard, printing of the content, and lending the e-book to another computer's reading system.) Foster continued, "In this case, readers' interests should be paramount, and the leading e-book formats -- Adobe's among them -- slight them by making it impossible to open an e-book when upgrading to a new computer or when suffering a number of all-too-common computer woes, such as virus infection and hard-disk failure." "At this point in e-books' development, we think it's just too early for companies such as Adobe that have nascent content-delivery systems to think they have solved all their problems and to resort to criminal charges against a programmer who discovered and discussed serious flaws in the program's security structure." Foster went on to note: "Some people think Adobe has to pursue this type of action to reassure publishers their content is safe. But what publishers need to know is that Adobe understands the technology and its current limits, and the problems with its own software, and that it understands what our customers -- that is, readers -- need and what the immature e-book industry needs in order to grow." Sklyarov, a graduate student at Bauman Moscow State Technical University, reported at a Las Vegas conference on his research on e-book security performed for his dissertation. His research was later incorporated into a permissions-removal program called Advanced E-book Processor, or AEBPR, by ElcomSoft, a Russian software company that now employs him. The program apparently sold fewer than ten copies before being pulled from the market at Adobe's insistence. It had not been available commercially for more than two weeks before Sklyarov's visit to America. AEBPR allows users to make backups of legally purchased Adobe eBooks that ignore the eBooks' restrictions on copying, printing and lending, if any, and permit the eBook to be read on a replacement copy of Adobe eBook Reader if the initial installation no longer functions or if the user upgrades to a new computer. It does not work with eBooks sold to another user. Since under Russian law, such backups are mandatory for data sellers, Adobe eBooks contravene the law and AEBPR is legal in Russia, as well as in Germany and Scandinavia, and other countries. Its use in the U.S. is not permitted under the DMCA, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. The Electronic Publishers Coalition was founded by a group of publishers committed to furthering the growth of the e-book community. It is the largest trade association of electronic publishers in the world. A primary role of the EPC is to follow through on its commitment to develop a healthy marketplace for digital content as well as to take a leadership role in setting minimum standards in order to encourage quality within our industry. The EPC is located on the web at http://www.epccentral.org/ . From alansmitheee at hotmail.com Mon Jul 23 00:22:58 2001 From: alansmitheee at hotmail.com (Alan Smithee) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sign ideas Message-ID: SAVE FAIR USE KILL THE DMCA >From: "Christopher R. Maden" >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sign ideas >Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 16:20:03 -0700 > >I'll be bringing to San José tomorrow: > >IF YOU CAN >READ THIS, >GO TO JAIL > >(in mirrored writing) and > >eBook >Professionals >for Dmitry > >Each of my signs will have, at the bottom, a Statue of Liberty, a not-DMCA >sign, and a not-Adobe logo. Additionally, because I get all of my >backpacks and totebags at conferences, they all seem to have Adobe logos on >them. I'll be crossing them out with poster paint and bringing the bag of >choice anyway. > >Other ideas: > >F U CN RD THS, G.T. JL > >LIAJ TO GO >,SIHT DAER >NAC UOY FI > >CODING IS NOT >A CRIME > >END CORPORATE THUGGERY > >ADOBE = CORPORATE BULLIES > >THE COURTS ARE NOT A >SUBSTITUTE FOR THE MARKETPLACE > >-crism >-- >Christopher R. Maden, XML Consultant >DTDs/schemas - conversion - ebooks - publishing - Web - B2B - training > >PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From izel at sulam.com Sun Jul 22 17:25:32 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] 6 o'clock Message-ID: I want to caution protesters not to fall for what Adobe is obviously going to do. I have seen people state that they will wait until around 1 pm, and if EFF-Adobe negotiations are still ongoing, that they will protest the US Government, but not Adobe. This is a misguided approach. It lets Adobe off the hook. Clearly, if this is how people plan to act, then Adobe has every incentive to waste EFF's time until early evening, when reporters and journalists will have lost interest in the protests, and then the EFF representatives will be let go with nary a result. That would be a shame. Since Adobe is largely responsible for the chain of events leading to Monday's protests, Adobe deserves its 15 minutes of fame (infamy) and we will give it to them whether they want it or not. WE MUST ENSURE THAT ADOBE WILL BE ON MONDAY'S SIX O'CLOCK NEWS. This is so important that it bears repeating. WE MUST ENSURE THAT ADOBE WILL BE ON MONDAY'S SIX O'CLOCK NEWS. One hopes that Adobe will be on the six o'clock news because they will have had the foresight to apologize to the EFF, and then publicly to the press, and state on the record that they are sorry for what has happened, and that they will not cooperate with the DOJ as a witness, and they are retracting their complaints, etc. And all this before 1 pm. But we know that this will never happen. So we will put Adobe on the six o'clock news ourselves. How will this happen? By 1 pm, unless we have the aforementioned solid result, I strongly suggest that protests go ahead in full force against Adobe, the DMCA, and championing the freedom of Dmitry. The consumer rights angle should be emphasized above all else. Make this day a Black Monday for Adobe. Tell the nation and the world how a profit-hungry corporation based on fraud, thuggery, and magic decoders rings will undertake the cruelest, vilest, most illegal acts in order to improve their bottom line. Thanks. - izel From jono at microshaft.org Sun Jul 22 17:26:10 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The New Constitution In-Reply-To: <01072302022601.19942@sheelab.dynodns.net>; from vadim_t@teleline.es on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 02:02:26AM +0200 References: <01072302022601.19942@sheelab.dynodns.net> Message-ID: <20010722172610.B92364@networkcommand.com> The DMCA is derived from the WIPO - World Intellectual Property Organization. Someone might want to wite who knows a bit more, but the DMCA was a response to rules enacted by the WIPO. This is part of the whole globalization thing everyone is so pissed about. Look: http://wipo2.wipo.int/process2/ There's more to it than that. Check www.anti-dmca.org for more info. All those protesters in Italy were pissed about something and we are just seeing the first effects here in the US. The companies are taking over. Think about it. The Constitution was written to protect "Individual's Rights" not corporate rights. Well, the WIPO and the G-8 are doing the equivalent of WRITING A GLOBAL CONSTITUTION. Think about it. Our forefathers met to write out rules of governance. Well THEY ARE DOING THE SAME THING WITHOUT YOUR INPUT. They are meeting, making rules and now look what happens. The US writes the DMCA to comply with the WIPO and now we are oppressed. On 23-Jul-2001, vadim wrote: > This is partly an idea from slashdot > (http://slashdot.org/articles/01/07/22/0044234.shtml, Retarded Laws), but > there's some of my own too. What's happening here is that a the DMCA is > trying to forbid people from picking a lock. If the act of simply explaining > how to open a door or decrypt encrypted data is illegal, imagine what would > happen if this was applied globally? > > Think about movies where a detective picks a lock or a delinquent robs a > bank. Some movies explain in a quite great detail a bank's security system > and how to break it. If the DMCA is ever applied globally, that will make a > really incredible amount of information illegal. Suddenly, movies, books, > articles in newspapers and many other thing will suddenly become illegal > because they explain how to pick a lock. > > This must never happen. > > -- > Vadim > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010722/8fb82410/attachment.pgp From jono at microshaft.org Sun Jul 22 17:28:01 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Idea... In-Reply-To: <20010722171517.M27349@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 05:15:17PM -0700 References: <01072302022601.19942@sheelab.dynodns.net> <20010722171517.M27349@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010722172801.C92364@networkcommand.com> On 22-Jul-2001, Nick Moffitt wrote: > Begin vadim quotation: > > What's happening here is that a the DMCA is trying to forbid people > > from picking a lock. > > In fact, the DMCA does no such thing. It forbids people to > make or sell any tool which could possibly be used to "pick a lock". What is this? Students and Professor vs. John Ashcroft (Attorney General), The RIAA, The SDMI, Verance Corp http://www.eff.org/Legal/Cases/Felten_v_RIAA/20010606_eff_complaint.html They were not trying to sell anything! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010722/b64112b0/attachment.pgp From nick at zork.net Sun Jul 22 17:30:45 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Idea... In-Reply-To: <20010722172801.C92364@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 05:28:01PM -0700 References: <01072302022601.19942@sheelab.dynodns.net> <20010722171517.M27349@zork.net> <20010722172801.C92364@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010722173045.C4682@zork.net> Begin Jon O . quotation: > On 22-Jul-2001, Nick Moffitt wrote: > > Begin vadim quotation: > > > What's happening here is that a the DMCA is trying to forbid people > > > from picking a lock. > > > > In fact, the DMCA does no such thing. It forbids people to > > make or sell any tool which could possibly be used to "pick a lock". > > What is this? > > Students and Professor vs. John Ashcroft (Attorney General), The > RIAA, The SDMI, Verance Corp > > http://www.eff.org/Legal/Cases/Felten_v_RIAA/20010606_eff_complaint.html > > They were not trying to sell anything! You are correct. I believe that "traffic" or "distribute" would be more important. My bad. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From kyhwana at world-net.co.nz Sun Jul 22 17:38:51 2001 From: kyhwana at world-net.co.nz (Daniel Richards) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: <3B5B48AD.9F504CBD@sethf.com> Message-ID: <3B5C1ADB.3924.F577362@localhost> On 22 Jul 2001, at 17:42, Seth Finkelstein wrote: > With regard to the conflict between the goals of > Free Dmitri/Overturn DMCA, I don't think we have reached a point > where there is much tension between them at all. That is, I > don't believe anyone is thinking so deviously as to reason that we > need a martyr and a test case, so sacrifice Dmitri's well-being > by having him be in jail so that The Cause has a rallying-point > to overturn the DMCA. Both groups basically want the same thing, although there is the fact that Dmitry IS innocent and didn't do what the FBI arrested him for. (Unless is presentation counts, then you _really_ want to get rid of the DMCA since it is unconstitutional) Dmitry should NOT be "used" by us as a Martyr because this isn't his fight, the US is not even his own country. The idea is to get Dmitry out of jail and home, while at the same time addressing the law that put him there. If anyone wants a martyr THEY should write a circumvention device and sell it in the US (Hey, like Streambox did. Why wasn't Alex Telitsin arrested?) I think that in order for it to be a criminal case (and thus rot (d'oh) in jail) you have to profit from the "device". http://www.boycottadobe.com Don't let companies make speech they don't like illegal! - Free Dmitry! Daniel Richards PGP Pub key: http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/DanielRPubKey.asc Fingerprint: 416D 4027 D635 AF51 F2BF 60DF 4D94 F7A0 9893 2848 From awh at acm.org Sun Jul 22 17:34:03 2001 From: awh at acm.org (Tony Hursh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: The American Association of Publishers issues a press release (Derek Balling) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010722192458.01587e50@students.uiuc.edu> At 05:14 PM 7/22/01 -0700, Derek Balling wrote: >At 4:22 PM -0700 7/22/01, Seth David Schoen wrote: > >I wrote to Dr. Barbara Simons, who has been ACM President and a > >long-time DMCA opponent, to let her know and ask her to spread the > >word. > > > >It is _abundantly_ clear that the ACM oppose the DMCA, and has been > >working hard against it. > > > >http://www.acm.org/usacm/copyright/ > > > >I agree that they appear to be against it, but so long as they remain >a member of an organization that lauds it, they are hypocrites >unworthy of my dues money. :) Maybe we should tone down the rhetoric here just a tad? This AAP press release came out just a couple of days ago, and I seriously doubt if the AAP bothered to run it by their members (including ACM) before releasing it. It is inconceivable to me that the ACM would have approved this. Before we start bandying about words like "hypocrites" it seems to me that we should let the ACM issue an official response. I have every confidence that the ACM will repudiate the AAP's stance. Let's not forget that one letter to Congress from an organization like the ACM probably carries more clout than a dozen demonstrations. -- Tony (no official connection with ACM other than as a member, though I do use their email service) From jono at microshaft.org Sun Jul 22 17:43:56 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The New Constitution In-Reply-To: <20010722172610.B92364@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 05:26:10PM -0700 References: <01072302022601.19942@sheelab.dynodns.net> <20010722172610.B92364@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010722174356.E92364@networkcommand.com> Here: http://www.jrc.es/iptsreport/vol32/english/ISS1E326.htm What is Going Wrong Today in Global Governance? Due to political will and technological progress, the world is now integrating economically into one single world-wide market, which is the essential aspect of the present globalization process. This is to a high degree being accelerated by the power of ICT and its ability to eliminate distance. If we ask what governs development today in this global market, it is primarily the regime of the WTO and of the financial markets, both characterized by the idea of "free trade" and deregulation. This explains more about the WIPO and WTO. The WIPO caused the US to write the DMCA to comply with international IP restrictions rules, etc... On 22-Jul-2001, Jon O . wrote: > > The DMCA is derived from the WIPO - World Intellectual Property Organization. > > Someone might want to wite who knows a bit more, but the DMCA was a response > to rules enacted by the WIPO. This is part of the whole globalization thing > everyone is so pissed about. Look: > > http://wipo2.wipo.int/process2/ > > There's more to it than that. > > Check www.anti-dmca.org for more info. All those protesters in Italy were > pissed about something and we are just seeing the first effects here in > the US. The companies are taking over. Think about it. The Constitution > was written to protect "Individual's Rights" not corporate rights. > > Well, the WIPO and the G-8 are doing the equivalent of WRITING A GLOBAL > CONSTITUTION. Think about it. Our forefathers met to write out rules of > governance. Well THEY ARE DOING THE SAME THING WITHOUT YOUR INPUT. > > They are meeting, making rules and now look what happens. The US writes > the DMCA to comply with the WIPO and now we are oppressed. > > > > > > > On 23-Jul-2001, vadim wrote: > > This is partly an idea from slashdot > > (http://slashdot.org/articles/01/07/22/0044234.shtml, Retarded Laws), but > > there's some of my own too. What's happening here is that a the DMCA is > > trying to forbid people from picking a lock. If the act of simply explaining > > how to open a door or decrypt encrypted data is illegal, imagine what would > > happen if this was applied globally? > > > > Think about movies where a detective picks a lock or a delinquent robs a > > bank. Some movies explain in a quite great detail a bank's security system > > and how to break it. If the DMCA is ever applied globally, that will make a > > really incredible amount of information illegal. Suddenly, movies, books, > > articles in newspapers and many other thing will suddenly become illegal > > because they explain how to pick a lock. > > > > This must never happen. > > > > -- > > Vadim > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010722/24880d60/attachment.pgp From pablos at kadrevis.com Sun Jul 22 17:46:55 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] You have my support! (fwd) Message-ID: <1142096.995824015@[10.0.1.220]> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Sunday, July 22, 2001 8:19 PM -0400 From: Dennis Warner To: "nicehair@boycottadobe.com" Subject: You have my support! My name is Dennis Warner, and I am an author and (small) publisher from the United States. I first heard of Dmitry's plight on wired.com, where I have also been watching very closely the issues with 2600-DeCSS, Napster and Princeton professor Edward Felten. Not only am I scared of the future I see ahead, but downright appalled that our courts are pandering to the corporations and blatantly disregarding our rights. Free speech and fair use are being trampled on and disregarded in an alarming fashion. Not only do the means not justify the end, but the end itself should be questioned. Making money may be as American as apple pie, but so is free speech and our freedom from the tyranny of our government and big business! The saddest things is that DeCSS simply allows legitimate Linux consumers to watch what they own, just as the software from Elcomsoft would allow an Adobe customer to take an ebook they bought and view it on as many machines as they like. Correct me if I am wrong, but the only way you can share an Adobe ebook is if you buy the $40 dollar version of their ebook reader and the person you are lending it to has that version also. Now, when did it become acceptable that a consumer should have to pay $40 dollars to share what he owns? When has it become acceptable to let corporations inconvenience consumers and take away their rights to share and to enjoy books, music and movies with friends (without paying for the privilege)? What did they expect? That if they forced restrictions on consumers and made their DRM obtrusive and overly controlling, consumers would just hold out their bowls and ask for more? If you want to talk about capitalism and market forces, then look at the fact that people were willing to dole out $99 dollars to get their rights back. The market was just following demand. Sounds American to me. And yes, of course Elcomsoft's software could be used to pirate ebooks, but just because guns can kill people (or more correctly, a few bad apples could), doesn't mean we stop selling them to legitimate people. And accordingly, we should not ban this type of software that gives us back our fair use rights, just because a few people might use it for pirating purposes. Look, I've worked very hard at my craft and my business and DO want to be rewarded monetarily, but not if it means sacrificing my ideals. And that is why I started Tortured Writer Publishing (http://www.torturedwriter.com) and plan to publish all my ebooks sans DRM. And yes, I do think a valid business plan can be built without a foundation of Digital Rights Management. I was going to release my ebook in Adobe format (without DRM, of course), but will now postpone those plans until they release Dmitry. If the powers that be (the corporations) are not stopped now, before they build too much of a DRM infrastructure, we may never gain control again. The war has started and me must not be passive in this matter. Feel free to list http://www.denniswarner.net under a heading of those sites that support the cause, and know that you have an author on your side. Sincerely, Dennis Warner Tortured Writer Publishing ------------------------------------ http://www.denniswarner.net Homepage of poet Dennis Warner http://www.torturedwriter.com Tortured Writer Publishing ------------------------------------- ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From dredd at megacity.org Sun Jul 22 17:48:25 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: The American Association of Publishers issues a press release (Derek Balling) In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20010722192458.01587e50@students.uiuc.edu> References: <4.2.0.58.20010722192458.01587e50@students.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: At 7:34 PM -0500 7/22/01, Tony Hursh wrote: >At 05:14 PM 7/22/01 -0700, Derek Balling wrote: > >>At 4:22 PM -0700 7/22/01, Seth David Schoen wrote: >>>I wrote to Dr. Barbara Simons, who has been ACM President and a >>>long-time DMCA opponent, to let her know and ask her to spread the >>>word. >>> >>>It is _abundantly_ clear that the ACM oppose the DMCA, and has been >>>working hard against it. >>> >>>http://www.acm.org/usacm/copyright/ >>> >> >>I agree that they appear to be against it, but so long as they remain >>a member of an organization that lauds it, they are hypocrites >>unworthy of my dues money. :) > >Maybe we should tone down the rhetoric here just a tad? This AAP >press release came out just a couple of days ago, and I seriously >doubt if the AAP bothered to run it by their members (including >ACM) before releasing it. Undoubtedly they didn't. >It is inconceivable to me that the ACM >would have approved this. Also, agreed that it is inconceivable. > Before we start bandying about words >like "hypocrites" it seems to me that we should let the ACM issue >an official response. I have every confidence that the ACM will >repudiate the AAP's stance. "press releases" are not enough. If I continued to pay my dues to the KKK while condemning racism, you'd call me a hypocrite, and rightfully so. If the ACM continues to be a member of an organization whose position is so orthogonal to its goals, then its members have the right to call it a "hypocrite" until it resigns its membership. >Let's not forget that one letter to Congress from an organization >like the ACM probably carries more clout than a dozen >demonstrations. You think Congress reads their mail? Only if there is currency or negotiable-bearer instruments enclosed within. D -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From honig at sprynet.com Sun Jul 22 17:47:41 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20010722161334.00876100@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010722174741.00876d10@pop.sprynet.com> At 07:41 PM 7/22/01 -0400, Jay Sulzberger wrote: >On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, David Honig wrote: >> >> Ok fine, so you use stego to put the messages into baby pictures. >> >> Then they outlaw stego code. And require you to run a govt monitor program >> on your machine in order to connect. >> >> That of course is a full police state, equivalent to a camera in every room. >> >> Welcome to Dark Ages II. >> >> Can we get back to helping this programmer/grad (could be *you*) >> and leave cypherpunk dystopias to another list? > >No. You are wrong in your stance and wrong on the particulars. > >Do you know of the "CPRM" proposal to place one meg of spy >hardware/firmware/software into every IDE had drive made after 1 August >2001? Yep. Mandatory CPRM (or any similar) would be a police state. This spy stuff would be capable of scanning your whole hard disk >and sending back encrypted reports to Infotainment Central. This spy >stuff would also allow Infotainment Central to disable your hard drive, >whether or not you wished your hard drive disabled. Are you aware that >the proposal almost passed? Are you aware that Dmitry Sklyarov sits in >jail today because Adobe is trying to keep people from finding out that >Adobe uses rot13 to protect valuable material? Fuck rot-13. A programmer/researcher/father is in jail because of his company's endeavors. That is what matters immediately. Adobe's incompetence and the erosion of liberty embodied in DCMA come later. The *second* DS is home. In the longer term, fixing the abuse of the law inherent in DCMA is the goal. Right now, free the dude. Let the corps/EFFectors battle it out without dragging this man away bonding with his kids. Perhaps you have not heard >of the costs of defending 2600 against a frivolous suit brought by the >MPAA? I wore my 2600 t-shirt when I postered a purported Adobe office this afternoon. >Perhaps you have not heard of the massive placement of spy cameras >in our cities? Heard of, flamed against, conspired against. Any questions? Please, back to freeing a colleage, and throttle back on the internecine warfare, ok? From nick at zork.net Sun Jul 22 17:55:45 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: <3B5B48AD.9F504CBD@sethf.com>; from sethf@sethf.com on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 05:42:05PM -0400 References: <3B5B48AD.9F504CBD@sethf.com> Message-ID: <20010722175545.A13349@zork.net> Begin Seth Finkelstein quotation: > With regard to the conflict between the goals of Free > Dmitri/Overturn DMCA, I don't think we have reached a point where > there is much tension between them at all. That is, I don't believe > anyone is thinking so deviously as to reason that we need a martyr > and a test case, so sacrifice Dmitri's well-being by having him be > in jail so that The Cause has a rallying-point to overturn the DMCA. In fact, one might say that as a martyr, Dmitry has served well already. His ordeal has provided us with a story to tell and a reason for people to rally against the DMCA and its nefarious clauses. In fact, if Dmitry were released today, even on a technicality, we would still have a news event to our advantage. Our side would be seen as the winning one, and we could issue statements such as "Although Dmitry now walks free, the DMCA is still US law, and could be used against any one of us..." etc. I would suspect that Dmitry being freed would help overturn the DMCA, while his conviction would not be useful toward that purpose. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From seth.johnson at RealMeasures.dyndns.org Sun Jul 22 17:58:44 2001 From: seth.johnson at RealMeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release Message-ID: <000c01c11312$a0fda100$5a05b3d8@realmeasures> Oh, yes, absolutely! Can we seriously work on this? Seth Johnson Andrew Lawrence wrote: > > If the ACM would come on board with the EFF and issue a press release it > would certainly help garner credibility and media attention and do a lot to > help Dimitry. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010722/be9f01b2/attachment.htm From honig at sprynet.com Sun Jul 22 17:59:00 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: <3B5C1ADB.3924.F577362@localhost> References: <3B5B48AD.9F504CBD@sethf.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010722175900.00874eb0@pop.sprynet.com> At 12:38 PM 7/23/01 +1200, Daniel Richards wrote: >Dmitry should NOT be "used" by us as a Martyr because this isn't >his fight, the US is not even his own country. Dmitri is an involuntary martyr even if he's out as I write. If you have little kids then you know why I say this. >The idea is to get Dmitry out of jail and home, while at the same time >addressing the law that put him there. Exactly. The primary issue should be to free the man. Then the DCMA can be fought for what it is. ...... When we see this programmer/grad we see ourselves. Maybe some yahoo grunt gets busted in france for yahoo's nazi sales. As an anthropological aside, this is illustrating the guild vs. wars predicted by various futurists. From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Sun Jul 22 17:49:42 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Minneapolis/Saint Paul Press Release Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE July 23, 2001 Contact: Chris Moseng freedima@underwhelm.org 651-353-1513 Protesters will gather outside the Warren Burger Federal Building at 316 Robert Street in downtown Saint Paul this Monday to protest the arrest of Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov. The group hopes to promote public awareness of this arrest and decry the unconstitutional broadening of copyright congress passed in 1998 called the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). From mikeh at CSUA.Berkeley.EDU Sun Jul 22 18:04:47 2001 From: mikeh at CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Mike Howard) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] San Francisco 10 O'Clock News Coverage Message-ID: <20010722180447.A40854@csua.berkeley.edu> Watch tonight's 10 o'clock News on WB20 (San Francisco) Tonight (Sunday) for interviews with [free-sklyarov] list members Seth Schoen and Alex Fabrikant. The interviews were held during this afternoon's organizational session for tomorrow's San Jose protests. -Mike Howard From keith at webwalla.com Sun Jul 22 18:17:56 2001 From: keith at webwalla.com (Keith Lamont) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Any good flyers? Message-ID: Has anyone composed a good flyer they would like to share with the list? Keith From karl.deabrew at binarything.com Sun Jul 22 18:14:53 2001 From: karl.deabrew at binarything.com (Karl De Abrew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Index of Dmitry-related articles Message-ID: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F66A@mail.roundtable.com.au> For those who have signed up more recently, we are maintaining a full-index of all ElcomSoft, Dmitry Sklyarov, Adobe, US Government and DMCA-related articles from around the Web at: http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=170 Please write to editor@planetebook.com if you know of any pieces that we have missed in our coverage. Thank you. -Karl _________________________________________ Karl De Abrew karl.deabrew@binarything.com http://www.planetpdf.com/ http://www.planetebook.com/ http://www.xmlarena.com/ http://www.binarything.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network From mrmanley at home.com Sun Jul 22 18:24:57 2001 From: mrmanley at home.com (Monty R Manley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's Welfare Message-ID: <20010722202457.79de6ac8.mrmanley@home.com> Has anyone gotten any news at all about how Dmitry is faring while in jail? I worry about his welfare -- he's foreign, doesn't appear to speak english well, and is probably still in doubt as to his legal status. I also worry about the people he's imprisoned with (murderers, rapists, etc.). Anyone remember what happened to Bernie S. while he was in jail? For those who don't know, Bernie had his jaw broken badly by a convict who wanted to use the phone while Bernie was talking. After he kicked Bernie to the ground, he kept kicking and not only broke Bernie's jaw but also his arm (if memory serves me correctly). I worry about the same kind of thing happening to Dmitry. Has anyone been in touch with Dmitry? Is there a mailing address so we can send him books, magazines, etc.? Free Dmitry, Monty Manley From jays at panix.com Sun Jul 22 18:33:33 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010722174741.00876d10@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, David Honig wrote: > At 07:41 PM 7/22/01 -0400, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > >On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, David Honig wrote: > >> > >> Ok fine, so you use stego to put the messages into baby pictures. > >> > >> Then they outlaw stego code. And require you to run a govt monitor program > >> on your machine in order to connect. > >> > >> That of course is a full police state, equivalent to a camera in every > room. > >> > >> Welcome to Dark Ages II. > >> > >> Can we get back to helping this programmer/grad (could be *you*) > >> and leave cypherpunk dystopias to another list? > > > > >No. You are wrong in your stance and wrong on the particulars. > > > >Do you know of the "CPRM" proposal to place one meg of spy > >hardware/firmware/software into every IDE had drive made after 1 August > >2001? > > > Yep. Mandatory CPRM (or any similar) would be a police state. > > This spy stuff would be capable of scanning your whole hard disk > >and sending back encrypted reports to Infotainment Central. This spy > >stuff would also allow Infotainment Central to disable your hard drive, > >whether or not you wished your hard drive disabled. Are you aware that > >the proposal almost passed? Are you aware that Dmitry Sklyarov sits in > >jail today because Adobe is trying to keep people from finding out that > >Adobe uses rot13 to protect valuable material? > > Fuck rot-13. A programmer/researcher/father is in jail because of his > company's endeavors. That is what matters immediately. Adobe's incompetence > and the erosion of liberty embodied in DCMA come later. The *second* DS is > home. > > In the longer term, fixing the abuse of the law inherent in DCMA is the goal. > Right now, free the dude. Let the corps/EFFectors battle it out without > dragging this > man away bonding with his kids. > > Perhaps you have not heard > >of the costs of defending 2600 against a frivolous suit brought by the > >MPAA? > > I wore my 2600 t-shirt when I postered a purported Adobe office this > afternoon. > > >Perhaps you have not heard of the massive placement of spy cameras > >in our cities? > > Heard of, flamed against, conspired against. Any questions? > > Please, back to freeing a colleage, and throttle back on the internecine > warfare, ok? You are welcome to the last word in sub-thread. oo--JS. From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sun Jul 22 18:36:03 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20010722192458.01587e50@students.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: >>>Let's not forget that one letter to Congress >>>from an organization like the ACM >>>probably carries more clout than a dozen demonstrations. Speaking of Congress, is there a list anywhere of Senators and Representatives who oppose DMCA or who are "friendly" to this issue? James S. Huggins From tom at lemuria.org Sun Jul 22 18:31:33 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: ; from pmasloch@earthlink.net on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 07:14:55PM -0400 References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722165155.00a9bf00@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <20010723033130.B11138@lemuria.org> On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 07:14:55PM -0400, Peter wrote: > But what is wrong with waiting one more day? It is only one day. You > should give > them (the EFF) this chance. After that, you can protest 24/7 as much and > as long you want. spend a day and night in a jail, then say again "it is only one day". -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From andrea at gravitt.org Sun Jul 22 18:37:04 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ACM and EFF Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001 20:58, Seth Johnson wrote: >Oh, yes, absolutely!? Can we seriously work on this? This is a wonderful idea. ACM was all over the DMCA from the beginning. Unfortunately, they were also ignored just like EFF and all the others. IEEE was involved as well, along with other societies. But even if we cannot expect them to waltz in and rewrite the law, I absolutely do not agree that they have no more impact than a group of individuals. It is foolish to dismiss such an opportunity. After all, that's what professional associations are all about, and it's why I pay them all that money every year. It's certainly not so I can get some nifty email address or add to the pile of publications-to-read-this-decade collecting dust on my desk. Hell, there isn't even a professional chapter in Atlanta to participate in. Now I have another letter to write! Where shall we begin? Andrea ------------------------------------------------------- feorlen at acm dot org From cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu Sun Jul 22 18:41:17 2001 From: cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Pronunciation of Dmitry's name. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Can one of the Russians on the list record an audio file with the definitive pronunciation of Dmitry's name? I'd like to make sure all of us don't massacre it when we give press interviews tomorrow. Thanks! --s Ft. Meade Mossad Saddam Hussein plutonium World Trade Center North Korea KGB Hawk kibo agent MI6 Seattle security LA IDEA Sabana Seca jihad ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian ) -- "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970, minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4. -- [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/] #!/usr/bin/perl -w # 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz # MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout # arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order $_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5; $_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d= unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d >>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9 ,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t ^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271)) [$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval From ilya at theIlya.com Sun Jul 22 18:44:29 2001 From: ilya at theIlya.com (Ilya Volynets) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] 6 o'clock In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0107221844290J.19305@gateway> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I have no choice but completely agree with you. If all issues are not resolved by 13:00:00 Adobe has clearly indicated that they are *not* willing to solve them, as they already seem to be indicating by not meeting with EFF during the weekend. On Sunday 22 July 2001 17:25, Izel Sulam wrote: > I want to caution protesters not to fall for what Adobe is obviously going > to do. > > I have seen people state that they will wait until around 1 pm, and if > EFF-Adobe negotiations are still ongoing, that they will protest the US > Government, but not Adobe. > > This is a misguided approach. It lets Adobe off the hook. Clearly, if this > is how people plan to act, then Adobe has every incentive to waste EFF's > time until early evening, when reporters and journalists will have lost > interest in the protests, and then the EFF representatives will be let go > with nary a result. > > That would be a shame. Since Adobe is largely responsible for the chain of > events leading to Monday's protests, Adobe deserves its 15 minutes of fame > (infamy) and we will give it to them whether they want it or not. > > WE MUST ENSURE THAT ADOBE WILL BE ON MONDAY'S SIX O'CLOCK NEWS. > > This is so important that it bears repeating. > > WE MUST ENSURE THAT ADOBE WILL BE ON MONDAY'S SIX O'CLOCK NEWS. > > One hopes that Adobe will be on the six o'clock news because they will have > had the foresight to apologize to the EFF, and then publicly to the press, > and state on the record that they are sorry for what has happened, and that > they will not cooperate with the DOJ as a witness, and they are retracting > their complaints, etc. And all this before 1 pm. > > But we know that this will never happen. > > So we will put Adobe on the six o'clock news ourselves. > > How will this happen? By 1 pm, unless we have the aforementioned solid > result, I strongly suggest that protests go ahead in full force against > Adobe, the DMCA, and championing the freedom of Dmitry. The consumer rights > angle should be emphasized above all else. Make this day a Black Monday for > Adobe. Tell the nation and the world how a profit-hungry corporation based > on fraud, thuggery, and magic decoders rings will undertake the cruelest, > vilest, most illegal acts in order to improve their bottom line. > > Thanks. > - izel > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtbgYAACgkQtKh84cA8u2kE8ACdF5okMJ6ScZcVJwdQJRqelz8V 7xwAn0vEQ03jDu0WzVJy8PHiZZGvXI8O =80Df -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jono at microshaft.org Sun Jul 22 18:47:38 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Press Release: Electronic Publishers Coalition Condemns Criminal Use of DMCA In-Reply-To: <200107230022.TAA01633@og1.olagrande.net>; from noring@olagrande.net on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 07:22:21PM -0500 References: <200107230022.TAA01633@og1.olagrande.net> Message-ID: <20010722184738.H92364@networkcommand.com> Good job! Also: http://www.anti-dmca.org/index.html On 22-Jul-2001, noring@olagrande.net wrote: > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > July 22, 2001 > > Contact information: > > Connie Foster, eBooksonthe.net, publisher@ebooksonthe.net, 207-667-6515 > Jon Noring, Blue Glass Publishing, noring@olagrande.net, 801-253-4037 > Roger Sperberg, Watchung Plaza Books, roger@e-bks.com, 973-744-7802 > URL: http://www.epccentral.org/dmca.html > > > Electronic Publishers Coalition Condemns Criminal Use of DMCA > > > While all publishers are concerned about professional copyright > thieves, the Electronic Publishers Coalition condemns the use of the > criminal provisions of the DMCA against Dimitry Sklyarov, a Russian > programmer and cryptanalyst visiting the United States. > > "Persecution of an individual shouldn't be any company's response to > a commercial disagreement, especially regarding copyright," Connie > Foster, the EPC executive director said Sunday. > > "All members of the EPC -- not just a small portion of them as with > print-oriented groups like the AAP -- work with the Adobe and other > electronic formats to publish their e-books, and we recognize that the > same technology that benefits publishers with lower production and > distribution costs also aids copyright violators." > > "We also recognize from our close experience working with electronic > books, that readers need and deserve greater leeway with the e-books > they purchase than the current limited DRM and security technology > provides," Foster stated. (Note: DRM -- for digital rights management > -- provides permissions control with e-books, disallowing [or > permitting] such things as copying text to a computer's clipboard, > printing of the content, and lending the e-book to another computer's > reading system.) > > Foster continued, "In this case, readers' interests should be > paramount, and the leading e-book formats -- Adobe's among them -- > slight them by making it impossible to open an e-book when upgrading > to a new computer or when suffering a number of all-too-common > computer woes, such as virus infection and hard-disk failure." > > "At this point in e-books' development, we think it's just too early > for companies such as Adobe that have nascent content-delivery systems > to think they have solved all their problems and to resort to criminal > charges against a programmer who discovered and discussed serious > flaws in the program's security structure." > > Foster went on to note: "Some people think Adobe has to pursue this > type of action to reassure publishers their content is safe. But what > publishers need to know is that Adobe understands the technology and > its current limits, and the problems with its own software, and that > it understands what our customers -- that is, readers -- need and what > the immature e-book industry needs in order to grow." > > Sklyarov, a graduate student at Bauman Moscow State Technical > University, reported at a Las Vegas conference on his research on > e-book security performed for his dissertation. His research was later > incorporated into a permissions-removal program called Advanced E-book > Processor, or AEBPR, by ElcomSoft, a Russian software company that now > employs him. The program apparently sold fewer than ten copies before > being pulled from the market at Adobe's insistence. It had not been > available commercially for more than two weeks before Sklyarov's visit > to America. > > AEBPR allows users to make backups of legally purchased Adobe eBooks > that ignore the eBooks' restrictions on copying, printing and lending, > if any, and permit the eBook to be read on a replacement copy of Adobe > eBook Reader if the initial installation no longer functions or if the > user upgrades to a new computer. It does not work with eBooks sold to > another user. Since under Russian law, such backups are mandatory for > data sellers, Adobe eBooks contravene the law and AEBPR is legal in > Russia, as well as in Germany and Scandinavia, and other countries. > Its use in the U.S. is not permitted under the DMCA, the Digital > Millennium Copyright Act. > > The Electronic Publishers Coalition was founded by a group of > publishers committed to furthering the growth of the e-book community. > It is the largest trade association of electronic publishers in the > world. A primary role of the EPC is to follow through on its > commitment to develop a healthy marketplace for digital content as > well as to take a leadership role in setting minimum standards in > order to encourage quality within our industry. The EPC is located on > the web at http://www.epccentral.org/ . > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010722/dc6605f7/attachment.pgp From fegray at npl.uiuc.edu Sun Jul 22 18:49:36 2001 From: fegray at npl.uiuc.edu (Fred Gray) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress In-Reply-To: ; from free-sklyarov-request@zork.net on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 06:37:15PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010722204936.C29402@npl.uiuc.edu> > > Speaking of Congress, is there a list anywhere of Senators and > Representatives who oppose DMCA or who are "friendly" to this issue? > I know that Rep. Rick Boucher (D-Virginia) is an outspoken critic of the DMCA. See his Web page on Internet and Technology initiatives: http://www.house.gov/boucher/internet.htm I wish I lived in his district so I could say I voted for him! :-) Thanks, -- Fred Gray *** FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV *** http://www.freesklyarov.org *** From mark at blorch.org Sun Jul 22 18:48:36 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Any good flyers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072218483603.10924@bilbo.blorch.org> On Sunday 22 July 2001 18:17, Keith Lamont wrote: > Has anyone composed a good flyer they would like to share with the list? > > Keith If anybody has, please share. I'm having a nightmare of a time trying to get my brain in gear today. But I need something for tomorrow for the LA effort. (Sigh, and I'm a tech writer by trade... must be the weather... yeah, that's it!) Mark From dlc at halibut.com Sun Jul 22 18:54:09 2001 From: dlc at halibut.com (David Carmean) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Pronunciation of Dmitry's name. In-Reply-To: ; from cananian@lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 09:41:17PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010722185409.N25362@halibut.com> Can anyone provide a citation and a translation of the Russian law(s) regarding the ability to make safety/backup copies of software that's being bandied about in this discussion? ISTR a quote or a post that could be interpreted as stating that it was "required" that somebody create a program such as AEBPR under Russian law. Obviously silly, but we ought to be really clear and correct in what we say that might make it out to the press/public. From wild at eff.org Sun Jul 22 19:01:08 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722165155.00a9bf00@mail.paultopia.net> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722155238.031bcc30@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722185925.03900698@pop3.norton.antivirus> Hey Paul, My take on our conversation was that it consisted of a lot more than just "Trust me". If anyone else would like to chat, I am available, as many of you already know since I'm pretty sure I've spoken and/or emailed with dozens of you at this point. Free Dmitry and Reform the DMCA, Will Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 04:56 PM 7/22/2001 -0600, Paul Gowder wrote: >>It could easily be 1, whether planned by the EFF or no. No very subtle >>tactic, just the standard, almost necessary for structural reasons, tactic >>of: >> >>The more middle of the road reformer/revolutionaries are inside negotating >>with the oppressors while outside the crazies can barely be held in check. >> >>oo--JS. > > >The problem with good cop/bad cop is that the bad cop has to be involved >in the planning too. Otherwise (s)he might listen. There will be a lot >less crazies running about outside, now that the EFF has publicly put its >credibility behind the idea of "negotiating" with Adobe. > >I don't think the EFF realizes what it takes to get an action going. The >fact that I, for example, called a friend in Seattle (and a veteran of the >WTO wars) and asked him to try and turn out people for Seattle, would be >damaging to _me_ and my friend if Seattle had agreed to delay like >Portland did. > >I did call Will, and heard only "trust me." Well, sorry, but I don't -- >not without a convincing explanation. > > -Paul > >-- > -Paul Gowder > >"It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." > - Homer Simpson > > > >-- > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From dlc at halibut.com Sun Jul 22 19:03:33 2001 From: dlc at halibut.com (David Carmean) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Russian Law citation? In-Reply-To: <20010722185409.N25362@halibut.com>; from dlc@halibut.com on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 06:54:09PM -0700 References: <20010722185409.N25362@halibut.com> Message-ID: <20010722190333.O25362@halibut.com> D'oph! Forgot to change the subject line; I hate thread entropy. On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 06:54:09PM -0700, David Carmean wrote: > > Can anyone provide a citation and a translation of the Russian law(s) > regarding the ability to make safety/backup copies of software that's > being bandied about in this discussion? > > ISTR a quote or a post that could be interpreted as stating that > it was "required" that somebody create a program such as AEBPR under > Russian law. Obviously silly, but we ought to be really clear and > correct in what we say that might make it out to the press/public. > From wild at eff.org Sun Jul 22 19:03:50 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722170036.02ab1990@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722150858.036adff8@pop3.norton.antivirus> <4.3.2.7.0.20010722160439.031dfbe0@mail.paultopia.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20010722145522.03813ff0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <4.3.2.7.0.20010722125118.031a8820@mail.paultopia.net> <01072214265006.03179@frankie> <5.1.0.14.0.20010722103434.03a3fe08@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.1.0.14.0.20010722103434.03a3fe08@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722190300.036fe008@pop3.norton.antivirus> The time of the meeting is 10:45am... we don't expect to get out of the meeting until around 12 noon. Free Dmitry and Reform the DMCA, Will Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 05:03 PM 7/22/2001 -0700, Bob La Quey wrote: >At 03:10 PM 7/22/01 -0700, you wrote: > >Dear Paul, > > > >I invite you to call me and speak on the phone > >to discuss if you like. I will be at > >415-436-9333 x111 much of this afternoon > >working on how to get Dmitry out of > >jail and strategizing for the Adobe > >meeting tomorrow. > > > >Free Dmitry and Reform the DMCA, > > > >Will Doherty > >Online Activist / Media Relations > >Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > >Web http://www.eff.org > > > >Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > >------- > >So Will, > >Could we get back to the subject line. For those of us planning >other efforts it is important to know the Time of the Adobe/EFF >meeting. Or is that another top secret? > >Free Dmitry and Reform the DMCA, > > >Bob La Quey From nick at zork.net Sun Jul 22 19:05:16 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Pronunciation of Dmitry's name. In-Reply-To: ; from cananian@lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 09:41:17PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010722190516.B13349@zork.net> Begin C. Scott Ananian quotation: > Can one of the Russians on the list record an audio file with the > definitive pronunciation of Dmitry's name? I'd like to make sure all of > us don't massacre it when we give press interviews tomorrow. Thanks! I don't have appropriate recording equipment, but it is pronounced sklee-YA-rohv sklee as in "ski" with an L thrown in. YA as in the German word for "yes" (spelled "ja"). rov with the o as in "offer". Proper Russians will not pronounce the "ee" in the "sklee" syllable, but will instead soften the l in a manner that is difficult to describe in English e-mail. However, it is good enough for Americans to pronounce it as three syllables. The softening of consonants is one of those things about Russian pronunciation that takes weeks of practice by most Americans. Don't fret over it. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From nick at zork.net Sun Jul 22 19:05:59 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] thread entropy Message-ID: <20010722190559.C13349@zork.net> Begin David Carmean quotation: > D'oph! Forgot to change the subject line; I hate thread entropy. Remember to snip the In-Reply-To or similar headers as well! -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From tom at lemuria.org Sun Jul 22 19:03:18 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Please relax, and read this plea for compassion In-Reply-To: <3B596CF5.4090204@Weesner.org>; from Jonathan@Weesner.org on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 06:52:21AM -0500 References: <3B596CF5.4090204@Weesner.org> Message-ID: <20010723040315.D11138@lemuria.org> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 06:52:21AM -0500, Jonathan Weesner wrote: > In short, let's push this smelly pile of DMCA pooh back into Congress. > But lets not pulverise a young Russian in the process! also, let's not forget that adobe DID act quite sensibly in the last case, the KIllustrator issue. they're a large corporation and nobody on this list knows whether adobe as a whole is standing behind this or is currently contemplating whether or not to fire the overly-enthusiastic legal-department member who got them into this shit. getting dmitry out of jail should be the headline for our protests. however, contrary to jonathan I do propose (from the comfort of my home in europe, so do as you like with my comments) that the "adobe shot the messenger" protests still be there, as a subtitle. after all, this is WHY we want dmitry freed, this is WHY we are all so angry, and it is also important from a tactical POV since it gives a) more punch to the "get this guy out of jail" line, especially if you run along the "adobe tries to cover up a huge customer fraud" line. people can relate to that, it gives things a background. plus b) only if adobe gets at least a black eye will other corporations hesitate to invoke this law the next time over, and the next time over it could be YOU at the receiving end. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From dlc at halibut.com Sun Jul 22 19:08:57 2001 From: dlc at halibut.com (David Carmean) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: thread entropy In-Reply-To: <20010722190559.C13349@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 07:05:59PM -0700 References: <20010722190559.C13349@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010722190857.P25362@halibut.com> On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 07:05:59PM -0700, Nick Moffitt wrote: > Begin David Carmean quotation: > > D'oph! Forgot to change the subject line; I hate thread entropy. > > Remember to snip the In-Reply-To or similar headers as well! I know better. I just hadn't made an alias yet. I plead insufficient caffienne :o) From wild at eff.org Sun Jul 22 19:10:50 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Press Release: Electronic Publishers Coalition Condemns Criminal Use of DMCA In-Reply-To: <200107230022.TAA01633@og1.olagrande.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722190940.038993b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Hey Jon, The EFF would like to thank publicly the Electronic Publishers Coalition for this statement condemning the arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov. It will be very helpful in the meeting with Adobe tomorrow. Free Dmitry and Reform the DMCA, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 07:22 PM 7/22/2001 -0500, noring@olagrande.net wrote: >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >July 22, 2001 > >Contact information: > >Connie Foster, eBooksonthe.net, publisher@ebooksonthe.net, 207-667-6515 >Jon Noring, Blue Glass Publishing, noring@olagrande.net, 801-253-4037 >Roger Sperberg, Watchung Plaza Books, roger@e-bks.com, 973-744-7802 >URL: http://www.epccentral.org/dmca.html > > >Electronic Publishers Coalition Condemns Criminal Use of DMCA > > >While all publishers are concerned about professional copyright >thieves, the Electronic Publishers Coalition condemns the use of the >criminal provisions of the DMCA against Dimitry Sklyarov, a Russian >programmer and cryptanalyst visiting the United States. > >"Persecution of an individual shouldn't be any company's response to >a commercial disagreement, especially regarding copyright," Connie >Foster, the EPC executive director said Sunday. > >"All members of the EPC -- not just a small portion of them as with >print-oriented groups like the AAP -- work with the Adobe and other >electronic formats to publish their e-books, and we recognize that the >same technology that benefits publishers with lower production and >distribution costs also aids copyright violators." > >"We also recognize from our close experience working with electronic >books, that readers need and deserve greater leeway with the e-books >they purchase than the current limited DRM and security technology >provides," Foster stated. (Note: DRM -- for digital rights management >-- provides permissions control with e-books, disallowing [or >permitting] such things as copying text to a computer's clipboard, >printing of the content, and lending the e-book to another computer's >reading system.) > >Foster continued, "In this case, readers' interests should be >paramount, and the leading e-book formats -- Adobe's among them -- >slight them by making it impossible to open an e-book when upgrading >to a new computer or when suffering a number of all-too-common >computer woes, such as virus infection and hard-disk failure." > >"At this point in e-books' development, we think it's just too early >for companies such as Adobe that have nascent content-delivery systems >to think they have solved all their problems and to resort to criminal >charges against a programmer who discovered and discussed serious >flaws in the program's security structure." > >Foster went on to note: "Some people think Adobe has to pursue this >type of action to reassure publishers their content is safe. But what >publishers need to know is that Adobe understands the technology and >its current limits, and the problems with its own software, and that >it understands what our customers -- that is, readers -- need and what >the immature e-book industry needs in order to grow." > >Sklyarov, a graduate student at Bauman Moscow State Technical >University, reported at a Las Vegas conference on his research on >e-book security performed for his dissertation. His research was later >incorporated into a permissions-removal program called Advanced E-book >Processor, or AEBPR, by ElcomSoft, a Russian software company that now >employs him. The program apparently sold fewer than ten copies before >being pulled from the market at Adobe's insistence. It had not been >available commercially for more than two weeks before Sklyarov's visit >to America. > >AEBPR allows users to make backups of legally purchased Adobe eBooks >that ignore the eBooks' restrictions on copying, printing and lending, >if any, and permit the eBook to be read on a replacement copy of Adobe >eBook Reader if the initial installation no longer functions or if the >user upgrades to a new computer. It does not work with eBooks sold to >another user. Since under Russian law, such backups are mandatory for >data sellers, Adobe eBooks contravene the law and AEBPR is legal in >Russia, as well as in Germany and Scandinavia, and other countries. >Its use in the U.S. is not permitted under the DMCA, the Digital >Millennium Copyright Act. > >The Electronic Publishers Coalition was founded by a group of >publishers committed to furthering the growth of the e-book community. >It is the largest trade association of electronic publishers in the >world. A primary role of the EPC is to follow through on its >commitment to develop a healthy marketplace for digital content as >well as to take a leadership role in setting minimum standards in >order to encourage quality within our industry. The EPC is located on >the web at http://www.epccentral.org/ . > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From seth.johnson at RealMeasures.dyndns.org Sun Jul 22 19:14:03 2001 From: seth.johnson at RealMeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: [nylug-talk] pleeease arrange a mondayprotest. Message-ID: <000c01c1131d$26e97d20$5a05b3d8@realmeasures> Ruben: Could you elaborate on the principle(s) they have in place in Russia that explain why they're so enlightened as to have made it actually illegal? Seth Johnson Brooklyn Linux Solutions CEO wrote: > > It will be an effective smoke screen and dry up sympathy for the cause > of fair use. the best thing to do is paint this guy as straight as you > can and emphasis the companies honest work. Also be sure to underscore > that Adobe's software restriction is ILLEGAL in Russia, as it should be > here in the US. > > Ruben -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010722/8cc3d9a5/attachment.htm From jim at media.mit.edu Sun Jul 22 19:13:44 2001 From: jim at media.mit.edu (Jim Youll) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe meeting time Message-ID: <200107230212.WAA12532@dns1.newmediagroup.com> 10:45 am in what time zone? >Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 19:03:50 -0700 >To: Bob La Quey , Will Doherty >From: Will Doherty >Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? >Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net > >The time of the meeting is 10:45am... we don't >expect to get out of the meeting until around >12 noon. > >Free Dmitry and Reform the DMCA, -- http://www.media.mit.edu/~jim research assistant . software agents group . e-markets sig mit media lab . cambridge, ma Free Dmitry Sklyarov ... Boycott Adobe Systems ... http://freesklyarov.org/ From mrmanley at home.com Sun Jul 22 19:26:03 2001 From: mrmanley at home.com (Monty R Manley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe meeting time In-Reply-To: <200107230212.WAA12532@dns1.newmediagroup.com> References: <200107230212.WAA12532@dns1.newmediagroup.com> Message-ID: <20010722212603.5a46ef23.mrmanley@home.com> On Sun, 22 Jul 2001 22:13:44 -0400 Jim Youll wrote: It would be Pacific time, I assume, since the meeting is taking place in San Jose. > 10:45 am in what time zone? > > > >Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 19:03:50 -0700 > >To: Bob La Quey , Will Doherty > >From: Will Doherty > >Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? > >Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net > > > >The time of the meeting is 10:45am... we don't > >expect to get out of the meeting until around > >12 noon. > > > >Free Dmitry and Reform the DMCA, > -- > > http://www.media.mit.edu/~jim > research assistant . software agents group . e-markets sig > mit media lab . cambridge, ma > > Free Dmitry Sklyarov ... Boycott Adobe Systems ... http://freesklyarov.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Visit my blog at http://mrorganic.blogspot.com From nick at zork.net Sun Jul 22 19:18:57 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time to protest!! In-Reply-To: ; from abuch@math.mit.edu on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 01:39:39PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010722191857.D13349@zork.net> Begin Anders S. Buch quotation: > The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) from 1998 makes it a crime > to "manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise > traffic in" devices which can be used to circumvent copyright > protection technology. ITYM "copy restriction". DRM stuff does not protect the consumer's right to copy, so it cannot be called "copy protection". Copyright is protected by law and international treaty, not technology. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From doug at mcnaught.org Sun Jul 22 19:19:56 2001 From: doug at mcnaught.org (Doug McNaught) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Atlanta? Message-ID: Any outcome from the Atlanta meeting? I wasn't able to make it there. Free Dmitry! -Doug -- The rain man gave me two cures; he said jump right in, The first was Texas medicine--the second was just railroad gin, And like a fool I mixed them, and it strangled up my mind, Now people just get uglier, and I got no sense of time... --Dylan From nick at zork.net Sun Jul 22 19:21:58 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: <01072214545308.03179@frankie>; from ausage@ausage.com on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 02:54:53PM -0400 References: <01072214545308.03179@frankie> Message-ID: <20010722192158.E13349@zork.net> Begin Andrew Lawrence quotation: > Copy protection, digital rights management and encryption do > absolutely nothing to stop commencial piracy. I believe you mean "copy restriction". The techniques known colloquially as "copy protection" do not, in fact, protect the consumer's right to make backup copies. Also, I'm not quite sure how robbery on the high seas has anything to do with copying or encryption. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From izel at sulam.com Sun Jul 22 19:31:00 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe meeting time Message-ID: Monty R Manley mrmanley@home.com wrote: >It would be Pacific time, I assume, since the meeting is taking place in >San Jose. This pretty much destroys all protests happening in EST zones. Waiting until 1 pm PST means waiting until 4 pm EST. Are EST protesters honestly expected to wait until that point in time to properly protest against Adobe? All the journalists and reporters would have left long beforehand. I say protest Adobe without waiting for the outcome. Protest Adobe starting from the very beginning of your activities. What Adobe has done up until now is more than worthy of protest. They have shown a systematic disregard for product quality, customer satisfaction, and US and international laws. Adobe does not deserve any goodwill whatsoever from any of us. Should they point to the protests that have started early, and refuse to negotiate with the EFF because of this, that will be a clear sign that they never had any good faith intention to negotiate anyhow. This should provide even more fuel for our PR attack against Adobe's profit-hungry, fradulent, scheming tactics. Make tomorrow a Black Monday for Adobe! - izel From ragu at vsnl.com Sun Jul 22 19:35:23 2001 From: ragu at vsnl.com (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] You have my support! (fwd) In-Reply-To: <1142096.995824015@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <20010723080523.A3560@debianut.ekmnet> [Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 05:46:55PM -0700] Pablos Kadrevis : > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > Date: Sunday, July 22, 2001 8:19 PM -0400 > From: Dennis Warner > Subject: You have my support! > but downright appalled that our courts are pandering to > the corporations and blatantly disregarding our rights. I believe that the root cause for this is that a major portion of the Americans are not politically active. They stand divided on many crucial issues and this weakness is exploited by the "Corporates" to pit one against the other. The Americans have forgotten to talk about freedom which they have won over and which they are slowly letting slip away. Very soon, the United States would be worse off than China or say the former USSR. The US is no more a model for me, a free software enthusiast. The US is the worst place for a software designer/developer/programmer ! -- ragOO, VU2RGU Keeping the Air-Waves FREE...........Amateur Radio Keeping your Software FREE.........the GNU Project Keeping the W W W FREE....Debian GNU/${kernel} From wild at eff.org Sun Jul 22 19:32:57 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe meeting time In-Reply-To: <200107230212.WAA12532@dns1.newmediagroup.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722193101.03c13e10@pop3.norton.antivirus> 10:45am Pacific ending hopefully at around 12:00 noon Pacific. I understand that this means that protests on the East Coast may not hear the results of the meeting in time to announce at the protest. If everyone gathers email addresses of those at the protest who want to hear more, there are now organizing lists and websites in place to get the word out.... excellent organizing work everyone! Free Dmitry and Reform the DMCA, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 10:13 PM 7/22/2001 -0400, Jim Youll wrote: >10:45 am in what time zone? > > > >Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 19:03:50 -0700 > >To: Bob La Quey , Will Doherty > >From: Will Doherty > >Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? > >Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net > > > >The time of the meeting is 10:45am... we don't > >expect to get out of the meeting until around > >12 noon. > > > >Free Dmitry and Reform the DMCA, >-- > >http://www.media.mit.edu/~jim >research assistant . software agents group . e-markets sig >mit media lab . cambridge, ma > >Free Dmitry Sklyarov ... Boycott Adobe Systems ... http://freesklyarov.org/ > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From snair at utstar.com Sun Jul 22 19:40:06 2001 From: snair at utstar.com (Sreeni R. Nair) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Press Coverage Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010722223316.00ad7c98@mail.utstar.com> I sent an email to Scott Rosenberg of Salon.com, and requested coverage of the Dmitry affair (Salon, uncharacteristically, has not yet published any article on the case till now). He replied that they are currently short of tech reporters, most of the staff being on vacation, but added that "[Salon] will do our best to find a new angle on this story and catch up to it." The ordinary man acts because he thinks his act will be profitable; the superior man, however, acts because he thinks his act is right. -- Confucius From mrmanley at home.com Sun Jul 22 19:51:20 2001 From: mrmanley at home.com (Monty R Manley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Press Coverage In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010722223316.00ad7c98@mail.utstar.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010722223316.00ad7c98@mail.utstar.com> Message-ID: <20010722215120.5a22f78f.mrmanley@home.com> On Sun, 22 Jul 2001 22:40:06 -0400 "Sreeni R. Nair" wrote: I was surprised at Salon's lack of coverage on this issue. They're usually right on top of this kind of thing. Hopefully they can make up in depth what they missed in timeliness. Regards, Monty Manley > I sent an email to Scott Rosenberg of Salon.com, and requested coverage of > the Dmitry affair (Salon, uncharacteristically, has not yet published any > article on the case till now). He replied that they are currently short of > tech reporters, most of the staff being on vacation, but added that > "[Salon] will do our best to find a new angle on this story and catch up to > it." > > > > > The ordinary man acts because he thinks his act will be profitable; the > superior man, however, acts because he thinks his act is right. > -- Confucius > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Visit my blog at http://mrorganic.blogspot.com From free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org Sun Jul 22 19:50:56 2001 From: free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org (Julian T. J. Midgley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] locking up books In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722153028.031a7d80@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Paul Gowder wrote: > At some point soon, one expects (by "one" here I of course mean "me") M$ or > someone to come out with some technology to at least disable screen capture > for DRM docs. One imagines (see previous parenthetical) that as trivial, > especially in active-x land. Then someone builds a device which takes the SVGA output from your machine in place of a monitor, and performs OCR on the output directly. Then all monitors have built in hardware to decrypt at the last instance, so you stick a video camera in front of the monitor, and perform OCR on the output of that... So long as the output is human readable, it will be computer readable, and protection mechanisms will fail... Julian Midgley -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F From rabbi at quickie.net Sun Jul 22 19:54:50 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Press Release: Electronic Publishers Coalition Condemns Criminal Use of DMCA In-Reply-To: <200107230022.TAA01633@og1.olagrande.net> Message-ID: Someone should send this to the AAP, and ask them why they disagree. On Sun, 22 Jul 2001 noring@olagrande.net wrote: > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > July 22, 2001 > > Contact information: > > Connie Foster, eBooksonthe.net, publisher@ebooksonthe.net, 207-667-6515 > Jon Noring, Blue Glass Publishing, noring@olagrande.net, 801-253-4037 > Roger Sperberg, Watchung Plaza Books, roger@e-bks.com, 973-744-7802 > URL: http://www.epccentral.org/dmca.html > > > Electronic Publishers Coalition Condemns Criminal Use of DMCA > > > While all publishers are concerned about professional copyright > thieves, the Electronic Publishers Coalition condemns the use of the > criminal provisions of the DMCA against Dimitry Sklyarov, a Russian > programmer and cryptanalyst visiting the United States. > > "Persecution of an individual shouldn't be any company's response to > a commercial disagreement, especially regarding copyright," Connie > Foster, the EPC executive director said Sunday. > > "All members of the EPC -- not just a small portion of them as with > print-oriented groups like the AAP -- work with the Adobe and other > electronic formats to publish their e-books, and we recognize that the > same technology that benefits publishers with lower production and > distribution costs also aids copyright violators." > > "We also recognize from our close experience working with electronic > books, that readers need and deserve greater leeway with the e-books > they purchase than the current limited DRM and security technology > provides," Foster stated. (Note: DRM -- for digital rights management > -- provides permissions control with e-books, disallowing [or > permitting] such things as copying text to a computer's clipboard, > printing of the content, and lending the e-book to another computer's > reading system.) > > Foster continued, "In this case, readers' interests should be > paramount, and the leading e-book formats -- Adobe's among them -- > slight them by making it impossible to open an e-book when upgrading > to a new computer or when suffering a number of all-too-common > computer woes, such as virus infection and hard-disk failure." > > "At this point in e-books' development, we think it's just too early > for companies such as Adobe that have nascent content-delivery systems > to think they have solved all their problems and to resort to criminal > charges against a programmer who discovered and discussed serious > flaws in the program's security structure." > > Foster went on to note: "Some people think Adobe has to pursue this > type of action to reassure publishers their content is safe. But what > publishers need to know is that Adobe understands the technology and > its current limits, and the problems with its own software, and that > it understands what our customers -- that is, readers -- need and what > the immature e-book industry needs in order to grow." > > Sklyarov, a graduate student at Bauman Moscow State Technical > University, reported at a Las Vegas conference on his research on > e-book security performed for his dissertation. His research was later > incorporated into a permissions-removal program called Advanced E-book > Processor, or AEBPR, by ElcomSoft, a Russian software company that now > employs him. The program apparently sold fewer than ten copies before > being pulled from the market at Adobe's insistence. It had not been > available commercially for more than two weeks before Sklyarov's visit > to America. > > AEBPR allows users to make backups of legally purchased Adobe eBooks > that ignore the eBooks' restrictions on copying, printing and lending, > if any, and permit the eBook to be read on a replacement copy of Adobe > eBook Reader if the initial installation no longer functions or if the > user upgrades to a new computer. It does not work with eBooks sold to > another user. Since under Russian law, such backups are mandatory for > data sellers, Adobe eBooks contravene the law and AEBPR is legal in > Russia, as well as in Germany and Scandinavia, and other countries. > Its use in the U.S. is not permitted under the DMCA, the Digital > Millennium Copyright Act. > > The Electronic Publishers Coalition was founded by a group of > publishers committed to furthering the growth of the e-book community. > It is the largest trade association of electronic publishers in the > world. A primary role of the EPC is to follow through on its > commitment to develop a healthy marketplace for digital content as > well as to take a leadership role in setting minimum standards in > order to encourage quality within our industry. The EPC is located on > the web at http://www.epccentral.org/ . > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From seth.johnson at RealMeasures.dyndns.org Sun Jul 22 19:59:03 2001 From: seth.johnson at RealMeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] You have my support! (fwd) Message-ID: <000c01c11323$6f5f8a80$5a05b3d8@realmeasures> Exactly right on the money. Seth Johnson Raghavendra Bhat wrote: > > I believe that the root cause for this is that a major portion > of the Americans are not politically active. They stand > divided on many crucial issues and this weakness is exploited > by the "Corporates" to pit one against the other. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010722/8c510ab7/attachment.html From seth.johnson at RealMeasures.dyndns.org Sun Jul 22 20:04:43 2001 From: seth.johnson at RealMeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ACM and EFF Message-ID: <001001c11324$3b2adde0$5a05b3d8@realmeasures> Somebody tell us, please. But hey Andrea, your addy is from ACM. You know where to target comments? You thinking of figuring out what to say, or what? Seth Johnson Andrea wrote: > > Now I have another letter to write! Where shall we begin? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010722/3765db28/attachment.htm From sonjat at cs.unm.edu Sun Jul 22 20:02:14 2001 From: sonjat at cs.unm.edu (Sonja V. Tideman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Denver Rally In-Reply-To: <000c01c11323$6f5f8a80$5a05b3d8@realmeasures> Message-ID: Hello, This is just a reminder to everyone that the Denver Rally will be tomorrow at 19th and Stout at 12:00 PM. We will not be focusing on Adobe. Thanks Sonja From rabbi at quickie.net Sun Jul 22 20:07:08 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Please relax, and read this plea for compassion In-Reply-To: <20010723040315.D11138@lemuria.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Tom wrote: > also, let's not forget that adobe DID act quite sensibly in the last > case, the KIllustrator issue. they're a large corporation and nobody on > this list knows whether adobe as a whole is standing behind this or is > currently contemplating whether or not to fire the overly-enthusiastic > legal-department member who got them into this shit. Exactly. This kind of thing can definately happen without the knowledge of the top execs. The EFF needs to meet with and hear out Adobe. That is certain. We also cannot let up on the protests until Dmitry is free. Let the EFF do it's job. And join us in the streets. -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From rabbi at quickie.net Sun Jul 22 20:08:27 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe meeting time In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Izel Sulam wrote: > Monty R Manley mrmanley@home.com wrote: > > >It would be Pacific time, I assume, since the meeting is taking place in > >San Jose. > > This pretty much destroys all protests happening in EST zones. Waiting > until 1 pm PST means waiting until 4 pm EST. Are EST protesters honestly > expected to wait until that point in time to properly protest against > Adobe? All the journalists and reporters would have left long beforehand. DO NOT WAIT. -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From jays at panix.com Sun Jul 22 20:17:44 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Free Dmitry Sklyarov Rally to be held Monday 23 July 2001 in New York City Message-ID: ==================================== Demonstrations to be held Monday in over 20 cities worldwide against the arrest of Russian programer by FBI New York Protest will be in front of the New York Public Library on Monday, 23 July, on 5th Avenue between 41st and 42nd, at 12 noon. ==================================== FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT INFORMATION: LEONID GORKIN 509 E 78TH STREET, APT 6D NEW YORK, NY 10021 212 794 1565 LGORKIN@EXCITE.COM OR LGORKIN1@NYC.RR.COM TELL THE TRUTH, GO TO JAIL RALLY FOR DMITRY SKLYAROV (NEW YORK CITY, 22 July 2001) Last week, at the request of The Adobe Corporation, Dmitry Sklyarov, a cryptographer, was arrested and handed over to the federal prison system. The alleged crime: He presented his research at an information technology industry conference in Las Vegas. Mr. Sklyarov's analysis revealed that Adobe uses a weak security architecture in its e-book product. This sort of independent critical review is a normal and necessary part of establishing the credibility of claims made about a security enabled product. This act of revealing flaws in a product was once legal in the US, but now, thanks to the controversial 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) it is a federal offense. Citing the DMCA, the Department of Justice charges Mr. Sklyarov with trafficking in a "circumvention" device. In other words, software that makes it possible for people who have paid for a book to then read that book: Another thing that was once legal in the US. The DMCA is a fatally flawed piece of legislation. It is tailor-made law, bought and paid for by the publishing industry. It was sold as a measure to 'protect copyright holders' but as implemented it will destroy libraries and remove the written record from the public domain. The fight to transform the DMCA into a law that balances the needs of society with the privileges granted to copyright holders is being led by the the Electronic Frontier Foundation. In a July 20, 2001 letter to Attorney General John Ashcroft the Executive Director of the EFF, Shari Steele, wrote: When the DMCA was passing through Congress in 1998, the copyright industry promised it was needed as a shield for protection. Now as law, it's used as a powerful sword to squelch speech and competition and kill fair use. Congress never intended for the DMCA to destroy fair use, in fact it expressly tried to protect it. But there was no protection for Mr. Sklyarov. Unable to strike at Elcomsoft, a Russian company that sells a decoder for e-books, Adobe Corporation convinced the FBI to attack Elcomsoft's employee, Mr. Sklyarov. In response to the outrage sparked by the arrest, Adobe Corporation has offered to meet with the EFF on Monday, presumably to find a way to free Mr. Sklyarov. However, the government is not obliged to dismiss the case should Adobe ask it to do so. New Yorkers (no affiliation with EFF) will demonstrate their support for Mr. Dmitry Sklyarov in front of the New York Public Library on Monday, 23 July, on 5th Avenue between 41st and 42nd, at 12 noon. The message is simple: Free Dmitry! More information can be found at: 1. http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/ 2. http://www.freesklyarov.org/toadobe.html 3. http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45298,00.html 4. http://lwn.net/daily/alan-quits-als.php3 5. http://www.freesklyarov.org/ 6. http://www.boycottadobe.com/ 7. http://www.shrouded.net/nmdmitry.htm 8. http://two-bit.northpark.edu/free-sklyarov/reuters-sklyarov.txt 9. http://cryptome.org/usa-v-sklyarov.htm 10. http://two-bit.northpark.edu/free-sklyarov/chicago-protest-information.txt 11. http://two-bit.northpark.edu/free-sklyarov/sklyarov-chi-press-release.txt 12. http://www.elcomsoft.com/aebpr.html 13. http://www.elcomsoft.com/AEBPR/PDFSecurity.pdf 14. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/ 15. http://noframes.linuxjournal.com/articles/currents/0034.html 16. http://www.ala.org/ 17. http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36584-2001Feb7.html 18. http://www.nyu.edu/dental/vitalbook/index.html 19. http://www.nyu.edu/dental/vitalbook/faq.html 20. http://www.emarketer.com/analysis/ecommerce_b2c/20010314_b2c.html 21. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/ds-defcon2/ds-defcon.html 22. http://www.visi.com/~tneu/voidwhereprohibited.html 23. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html 24. http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/Graphics/ ------------------------ Here is the same list with some small comments to introduce each URI: Another day on the job 1. http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/ Letter from an Adobe fan 2. http://www.freesklyarov.org/toadobe.html That chilling effect... 3. http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45298,00.html This one's already chilled 4. http://lwn.net/daily/alan-quits-als.php3 "This is America?" 5. http://www.freesklyarov.org/ Hit 'em where it hurts 6. http://www.boycottadobe.com/ New Mexicans act up 7. http://www.shrouded.net/nmdmitry.htm The news wire 8. http://two-bit.northpark.edu/free-sklyarov/reuters-sklyarov.txt The charges 9. http://cryptome.org/usa-v-sklyarov.htm These guys are better organized then we are 10. http://two-bit.northpark.edu/free-sklyarov/chicago-protest-information.txt And their press release is better, too 11. http://two-bit.northpark.edu/free-sklyarov/sklyarov-chi-press-release.txt That pesky Russian company. In addition to the uses cited in the complaint there are a number of uses mentioned that call into question the "primary purpose" of the "circumvention device" as claimed by the FBI. It looks to me like the primary purpose is to enable all the traditional fair use activities for e-book content. 12. http://www.elcomsoft.com/aebpr.html Ooops, looks like someone comitted a thought crime! 13. http://www.elcomsoft.com/AEBPR/PDFSecurity.pdf If Touretzky can publish with impunity why persecute Dmitry? Is it a case of "programming while Russian?" Note that Touretzky gives it all away: Both the decoder and the full-function key. Note also that this does nothing for you unless you have paid for the e-book. 14. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/ Professor Bryan Pfaffenberger's excellent article: "In this essay, I'll argue that Sklyarov's case proves beyond any doubt that the DMCA should be overturned by a high court action." 15. http://noframes.linuxjournal.com/articles/currents/0034.html The librarians 16. http://www.ala.org/ Fear of librarians 17. http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36584-2001Feb7.html "Participation will be mandatory" 18. http://www.nyu.edu/dental/vitalbook/index.html "We don't believe you won't like it" 19. http://www.nyu.edu/dental/vitalbook/faq.html "In fact, two-thirds of all respondents were 'not at all likely' to purchase an e-book" 20. http://www.emarketer.com/analysis/ecommerce_b2c/20010314_b2c.html More thought crime 21. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/ds-defcon2/ds-defcon.html "What if..." 22. http://www.visi.com/~tneu/voidwhereprohibited.html Stallman saw it coming 23. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html Dmitry Sklyarov's family 24. http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/Graphics/ --- END --- From jays at panix.com Sun Jul 22 20:25:34 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Free Dmitry Sklyarov Rally to be held Monday 23 July 2001 in New York City In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The New York City press release was written by Vagn Scott, with free advice offered by me, Leonid, lo, four Joes, Jan, jk, Ruben, and some folk whose names are now lost to me in the echoes of howls and yowls on the nylug-talk list. Thanks, Vagn! oo--JS. From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu Sun Jul 22 20:46:37 2001 From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian Hicks) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: The American Association of Publishers issuesa press release (Derek Balling) In-Reply-To: ; from dredd@megacity.org on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 05:48:25PM -0700 References: <4.2.0.58.20010722192458.01587e50@students.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <20010722224637.E13930@magic.com> On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 05:48:25PM -0700, Derek Balling wrote: > > You think Congress reads their mail? Only if there is currency or > negotiable-bearer instruments enclosed within. > You obviously haven't mailed your congressman. They'll have some underling read it, decide which formletter would agree with the constituents stance completely, and then has it mailed out. But, something like the Dmitry Sklyarov case would probably demand a COMPLETELY NEW FORM LETTER, which would probably actually be read by the congressman before mailing it out. -- Brian Hicks* "Crush the lesser races! Conquer the PGP: 0xADDD1F16 galaxy! Incredible power, unlimited rice pudding, et cetera, et cetera." *Not Brian Behlendorf -- The Doctor -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010722/39052605/attachment.pgp From dsurber at us.oracle.com Sun Jul 22 20:45:39 2001 From: dsurber at us.oracle.com (Douglas Surber) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: free-sklyarov digest, Vol 1 #62 - 11 msgs In-Reply-To: <20010721173151.B15868@deadbeast.net> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010722204328.01ce9ec0@dlsun511.us.oracle.com> At 03:31 PM Saturday 07/21/2001, Branden Robinson wrote: >On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 01:58:39PM -0500, A.J. Peticolas wrote: >> p.s. I vaguely remember from school that there may have been a Supreme >> Court decision establishing that corporations are persons long long ago. >> If this is the case and anyone can tell me the case and date, I'd be >> grateful. > >Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad, 118 U.S. 394 (1886) > >Probably the worst Supreme Court decision since _Dred Scott_... For much more info on this decision and its impact on life in the US see http://www.poclad.org. Douglas From dredd at megacity.org Sun Jul 22 20:53:04 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: The American Association of Publishers issuesa press release (Derek Balling) In-Reply-To: <20010722224637.E13930@magic.com> References: <4.2.0.58.20010722192458.01587e50@students.uiuc.edu> <20010722224637.E13930@magic.com> Message-ID: At 10:46 PM -0500 7/22/01, Brian Hicks wrote: >On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 05:48:25PM -0700, Derek Balling wrote: >> >> You think Congress reads their mail? Only if there is currency or >> negotiable-bearer instruments enclosed within. >> > >You obviously haven't mailed your congressman. They'll have some >underling read it, decide which formletter would agree with the >constituents stance completely, and then has it mailed out. But, >something like the Dmitry Sklyarov case would probably demand a COMPLETELY >NEW FORM LETTER, which would probably actually be read by the congressman >before mailing it out. You silly naive man.. it'd just get the "Your issue is important to us, and we intend to study it carefully before making a commitment, but rest assured we will take your position under advisement when push comes to shove" form letter. It's the "form letter of last resort", sorta like the default route in a router. :) D -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From kyhwana at world-net.co.nz Sun Jul 22 21:04:04 2001 From: kyhwana at world-net.co.nz (Daniel Richards) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] eBooks and the blind. Message-ID: <3B5C4AF4.29441.10135A65@localhost> Does anyone know if text-to-speech programs will work with Adobe's ebook reader? You'd think with all this wizzbang technology that blind people would finally be able to read these new ebooks. But if ebook won't let T2S programs read the ebooks, well. Does anyone know of any blind organisataions that might interested in this? After all, if AEBPR does let blind people read ebooks, they might want to voice up, so that it's not illegal for blind people to red books. :P It's an idea, anyway. Some proof either way would be nice. http://www.boycottadobe.com Don't let companies make speech they don't like illegal! - Free Dmitry! Daniel Richards PGP Pub key: http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/DanielRPubKey.asc Fingerprint: 416D 4027 D635 AF51 F2BF 60DF 4D94 F7A0 9893 2848 From dlc at halibut.com Sun Jul 22 21:22:15 2001 From: dlc at halibut.com (David Carmean) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Press Coverage In-Reply-To: <20010722215120.5a22f78f.mrmanley@home.com>; from mrmanley@home.com on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 09:51:20PM -0500 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010722223316.00ad7c98@mail.utstar.com> <20010722215120.5a22f78f.mrmanley@home.com> Message-ID: <20010722212215.Q25362@halibut.com> On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 09:51:20PM -0500, Monty R Manley wrote: > On Sun, 22 Jul 2001 22:40:06 -0400 > "Sreeni R. Nair" wrote: > > I was surprised at Salon's lack of coverage on this issue. They're > usually right on top of this kind of thing. Hopefully they can make up in > depth what they missed in timeliness. > TechTV ran a 1/2 hour Defcon9 special on tonight's "Cyber Crime", with no mention of Dmitry (although they gave the Feds quite a bit of time). From adobedemonstrator at hotmail.com Sun Jul 22 21:29:35 2001 From: adobedemonstrator at hotmail.com (Adobe Demonstrator) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ACTION: first thing to do in the morning Message-ID: When you wake up Monday, please first thing use the "Email this story" link at the bottom of http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010720/n20379514_2.html We need to make sure that story is at the top of Yahoo Finance Most Emailed news stories all day Monday. Please keep an eye on it in "View most popular" and its identical twin in the general (non-finance) news section http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010720/tc/tech_hacker_arrest_dc_4.html We were #1 in finance and #5 in general news yesterday, but we slipped off both charts today. Please keep up the good work. Free Sklyarov! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From fegray at npl.uiuc.edu Sun Jul 22 21:47:00 2001 From: fegray at npl.uiuc.edu (Fred Gray) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] event in Champaign-Urbana, IL Message-ID: <20010722234700.B30129@npl.uiuc.edu> Tony Hursh (awh@acm.org) and I (fegray@uiuc.edu) will definitely be organizing an event of some sort on the University of Illinois Quad (Champaign-Urbana, IL) this Wednesday at noontime (say, 11:00 until 1:00). If it's just the two of us, it will probably be pretty low-key: we'll set up a sign and hand out flyers to passers-by. If we can get more people involved, we'll make correspondingly more noise. We'll find out tomorrow what needs to be done to get a permit to set up a table in front of the Union, etc. It would be great if the maintainer of the rally page would add an entry for us. We're going to blanket the campus with flyers tomorrow; our current draft is available from http://www.npl.uiuc.edu/~fegray/sklyarov-poster.ps . Thanks very much, -- Fred Gray *** FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV *** http://www.freesklyarov.org *** From xyz at kalifornia.com Sun Jul 22 22:10:38 2001 From: xyz at kalifornia.com (xyz@kalifornia.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA/FREE DMITRY Flyers - IGNORE FIRST Message-ID: Ok, so my first message was a bit large. The DMCA fliers can be found at http://www.octanoid.org/dmca/ Feel free to rip as you feel needed. Original message follows: At Kinko's and printing off some flyers, I worked with these and if printed doublesided and tripple folded you can get: FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV! REPEAL THE DMCA! On one side, a picture of Dmitry's family on the other, and a whole description of the event on the inside. Yes, PDF is evil, adobe sucks, but unfortunately some of us still have to deal with it until the world changes. Kinko's will probably be the last. They are attached in .pdf and .doc format. Enjoy. -D From nick at zork.net Sun Jul 22 22:33:16 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] San Francisco 10 O'Clock News Coverage In-Reply-To: <20010722180447.A40854@csua.berkeley.edu>; from mikeh@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 06:04:47PM -0700 References: <20010722180447.A40854@csua.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <20010722223316.H13349@zork.net> Begin Mike Howard quotation: > Watch tonight's 10 o'clock News on WB20 (San Francisco) Tonight > (Sunday) for interviews with [free-sklyarov] list members Seth > Schoen and Alex Fabrikant. > > The interviews were held during this afternoon's organizational > session for tomorrow's San Jose protests. I just watched the 10 o'clock news on WB20, and it seems that with all of the missing people (I counted four in all, three of whom were in the Bay Area), the story was bumped to the 11 o'clock news. This means that if you're in the Bay Area, you can tune into WB20 in half an hour from now to watch the news. I saw a promo bit with a whiteboard showing English and Russian slogans demanding the freeing of Dmitry! -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From freesk at hackhawk.net Sun Jul 22 22:37:58 2001 From: freesk at hackhawk.net (hackhawk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Press Coverage [Watchdog Programs?] In-Reply-To: <20010722212215.Q25362@halibut.com> References: <20010722215120.5a22f78f.mrmanley@home.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010722223316.00ad7c98@mail.utstar.com> <20010722215120.5a22f78f.mrmanley@home.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010722222007.00a99d60@localhost> >TechTV ran a 1/2 hour Defcon9 special on tonight's "Cyber Crime", with no >mention of >Dmitry (although they gave the Feds quite a bit of time). Speaking of Press Coverage... We all know how the media puts spins on things and many times makes them appear to be something they are not. Ever read "Inventing Reality" by Michael Perenti? <- not sure of spelling (sorry). I know there are some sites that list ALL the news postings about Dmitry and the DMCA. However, is there a central location where people can report false news reports, or lack of coverage by particular news outlets? If we are aware of false claims we can at least send proper feedback to those responsible. I will be in the field during the day so I wouldn't be able to manage such a task. Not only do we need to stage successfull rallies, we also need to ensure that the proper positive spin is placed on those rallies. WARNING! It will be very easy for the media to put a negative spin on the rallies if there are ANY questionable activities taking place. For example, the LA protests against the Gulf War were completely invalidated by the media. It was extremely easy for the media to do this because of a few people who poored blood and oil on the steps of the Federal Building (a criminal act). After that, future protests got almost NO coverage. Please, please, please be thoughtful and respectful. Thanks - hh From jono at microshaft.org Sun Jul 22 22:54:56 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Press Coverage [Watchdog Programs?] In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010722222007.00a99d60@localhost>; from freesk@hackhawk.net on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 10:37:58PM -0700 References: <20010722215120.5a22f78f.mrmanley@home.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010722223316.00ad7c98@mail.utstar.com> <20010722215120.5a22f78f.mrmanley@home.com> <20010722212215.Q25362@halibut.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010722222007.00a99d60@localhost> Message-ID: <20010722225456.C94288@networkcommand.com> I've put up a site here: http://www.anti-dmca.org It's a little easier to get news on it than Slashdot ;) You can post news or links to news and comment on the story. This should provide the type of function you are looking for. Just make sure you report fact to debunk "Spun Fact." There is also a "Add links feature so you can link to stories you do like. Thanks, Jon On 22-Jul-2001, hackhawk wrote: > > >TechTV ran a 1/2 hour Defcon9 special on tonight's "Cyber Crime", with no > >mention of > >Dmitry (although they gave the Feds quite a bit of time). > > Speaking of Press Coverage... We all know how the media puts spins on > things and many times makes them appear to be something they are not. Ever > read "Inventing Reality" by Michael Perenti? <- not sure of spelling (sorry). > > I know there are some sites that list ALL the news postings about Dmitry > and the DMCA. However, is there a central location where people can report > false news reports, or lack of coverage by particular news outlets? If we > are aware of false claims we can at least send proper feedback to those > responsible. I will be in the field during the day so I wouldn't be able > to manage such a task. > > Not only do we need to stage successfull rallies, we also need to ensure > that the proper positive spin is placed on those rallies. > > WARNING! It will be very easy for the media to put a negative spin on the > rallies if there are ANY questionable activities taking place. For > example, the LA protests against the Gulf War were completely invalidated > by the media. It was extremely easy for the media to do this because of a > few people who poored blood and oil on the steps of the Federal Building (a > criminal act). After that, future protests got almost NO > coverage. Please, please, please be thoughtful and respectful. > > Thanks > - hh > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From klepht at eleutheria.org Sun Jul 22 23:18:01 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] San Francisco 10 O'Clock News Coverage In-Reply-To: <20010722223316.H13349@zork.net> References: <20010722180447.A40854@csua.berkeley.edu> <20010722223316.H13349@zork.net> Message-ID: <877kx0uq1y.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt writes: NM> I just watched the 10 o'clock news on WB20, and it seems that NM> with all of the missing people (I counted four in all, three NM> of whom were in the Bay Area), the story was bumped to the 11 NM> o'clock news. This means that if you're in the Bay Area, you NM> can tune into WB20 in half an hour from now to watch the news. Hey, so, all I see is X-files on TV20. Any way to get a recap on today's mtg? Which I missed? ~Klepht P.S. 600 messages in my free-sklyarov folder when I got home from a weekend trip. Jeez! -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Sun Jul 22 23:23:18 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Free Speech, Free Sklyarov, a Community Declaration. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <873d7oupt5.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "CJD" == Chris J DiBona writes: CJD> Good Evening, I have been feverishly working on the Community CJD> Declaration of support for Dmitry and against the DMCA that CJD> bestowed upon the FBI the power to arrest him. Beaujolais! That's a great document! CJD> Please read http://www.dibona.com/dmca and sign on if you CJD> care to. Thanks. So, Chris, does this mean we're going to see some of those luminaries out at the events on Monday? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From drumz at best.com Sun Jul 22 23:23:26 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: The American Association of Publishers issuesa press release (Derek Balling) In-Reply-To: from Derek Balling at "Jul 22, 1 08:53:04 pm" Message-ID: <200107230623.XAA25334@shell3.ba.best.com> Derek J. Balling: > You silly naive man.. it'd just get the "Your issue is important to > us, and we intend to study it carefully before making a commitment, > but rest assured we will take your position under advisement when > push comes to shove" form letter. It's the "form letter of last > resort", sorta like the default route in a router. :) One little tip that I've gleaned from a couple other activism lists (no, I haven't actually tried it yet): try telegrams. Seriously. Nobody uses them anymore, so they tend to get flagged as "important." Their sheer esoteric nature makes them potentially more effective than letters or faxes. (I'm sure we all know that emails are *entirely* pointless, right?) Of course, the flip side is that, if everyone used telegrams, they would stop being effective. If you do write or call, make sure you contact your Congresscritter's local office, *not* her office in Washington. Especially in the case of Representatives, the folks who answer the phones and open the letters tend to be less overworked in the state offices than at the Capitol, and you stand a somewhat greater chance of reaching someone who is actually interested in hearing what you have to say. On a more discouraging note: as a Californian, I find the idea that Dianne Feinstein could ever be convinced to oppose either a giant corporation or a law that favors giant corporations in favor of standing up for individual rights positively quaint; this is one woman who is entirely aware on which side her bread is buttered. Boxer may be a slightly better bet, if not by much. Ethan -- "Only the deaf and blind have to believe." -- Romanian Proverb From nick at zork.net Sun Jul 22 23:24:52 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] San Francisco 10 O'Clock News Coverage In-Reply-To: <877kx0uq1y.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 11:18:01PM -0700 References: <20010722180447.A40854@csua.berkeley.edu> <20010722223316.H13349@zork.net> <877kx0uq1y.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010722232452.N13349@zork.net> Begin Klepht quotation: > Hey, so, all I see is X-files on TV20. Yeah. The WB channel did a quick bit. They seemed to like saying "Russian hacker" a lot. It wasn't very complete coverage. No interviews, just footage and a brief rundown. You may be able to get a transcript from them. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From klepht at eleutheria.org Sun Jul 22 23:29:00 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Give the EFF some credit In-Reply-To: <001201c11186$23a52580$6701a8c0@lorax> References: <001201c11186$23a52580$6701a8c0@lorax> Message-ID: <87y9pgtaz7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "MRM" == Monty R Manley writes: MRM> So: I disagree with the EFF's decision, but I will stand MRM> behind them. Amen to that! Despite the unsettlement that Friday's announcement (and premature Slashdot story -- grrrr) caused, I can't imagine us being in a better situation tomorrow. Angry hordes on the outside, calm cool negotiators on the inside... It's like a dream scenario for getting concessions out of Adobe. Standing Together to Free Dmitry, ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From tom at lemuria.org Mon Jul 23 00:23:33 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What needs to be done. In-Reply-To: <20010721171300.16435.qmail@web5201.mail.yahoo.com>; from gl_jason@yahoo.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 10:13:00AM -0700 References: <20010721171300.16435.qmail@web5201.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010723092331.B26556@lemuria.org> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 10:13:00AM -0700, Jason DeRose wrote: > 3) We need to organize for long term resistance. As > long as Sklyarov is in jail, regular protest should be > held; moreover, if his arrest has sufficiently > inflamed the community, as long as the DMCA exists, > regular protest should be held. Because of the > limited time for organization, this first protest may > not have dramatic impact on the public--but there is > always the following Monday, and the Monday after > that... this is good advise. it worked over here for the freedom of eastern germany. the first monday protests were just isolated cases of civil disobedience, but they grew into a movement. after a month, they were everywhere and powerful. another month and they had driven the first officials out of office. From pablos at kadrevis.com Mon Jul 23 00:27:51 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe's future... (fwd) Message-ID: <2260677.995848071@[10.0.1.220]> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Monday, July 23, 2001 12:14 AM -0700 From: Cristof To: "blamkin@adobe.com" Subject: Adobe's future... Krueger and et.al, You just lost another Adobe customer Many developers are gathering to put an effort to start boycotting the pdf format itself. I have already changed default mime formats of all my mails attachments etc... to be non-pdf format/non Adobe software. I have also uninstalled all Adobe products. You just lost another Adobe customer. I don't mind the losses I am incurring because of the license fees I paid.... Your stand on Dmitry is being closely watched by all developers around the silicon valley. I think it is time you dealt with technology at a technology level ..Work on better software please. I really think people are going to start thinking seriously about the following message I saw on a website... "Adobe also helps turn security experts into felons. " Thanks... -Once upon a time an Adobe Fan... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From tom at lemuria.org Mon Jul 23 00:30:35 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ACTION: first thing to do in the morning In-Reply-To: ; from adobedemonstrator@hotmail.com on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 09:29:35PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010723093033.C26556@lemuria.org> On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 09:29:35PM -0700, Adobe Demonstrator wrote: > When you wake up Monday, please first thing use the "Email this > story" link at the bottom of > http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010720/n20379514_2.html > > We need to make sure that story is at the top of Yahoo Finance > Most Emailed news stories all day Monday. > > Please keep an eye on it in "View most popular" and its identical > twin in the general (non-finance) news section > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010720/tc/tech_hacker_arrest_dc_4.html > > We were #1 in finance and #5 in general news yesterday, but we > slipped off both charts today. Please keep up the good work. we're now #1 again in finance with 25, but not on the list in general, which is unfortunate since we'd be at #9 already if the same 25 had sent that story, too. From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Jul 23 00:37:47 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry filk by Savitzky! [steve@theStarport.org: [svlug] Dmitry and DMCA (protest song)] Message-ID: <20010723003747.E31725@zork.net> The protest song to which this parody is set is near and dear to the hearts of all those of us who grew up in Massachusetts, U.S.A. ----- Forwarded message from "Stephen R. Savitzky" ----- To: svlug@svlug.org From: steve@theStarport.org (Stephen R. Savitzky) Subject: [svlug] Dmitry and DMCA (protest song) Date: 22 Jul 2001 20:42:54 -0700 I'm afraid I can't be at the demonstration Monday -- I have a meeting to attend. BUT: I have a small contribution to the cause; feel free to pass out lyric sheets and perform the following: Dmitri and DMCA Lyrics Copyright 2001 Stephen Savitzky. All rights reserved. TTTO: ``Charlie on the MCA.'' Please send donations to the Electronic Frontier Foundation in lieu of royalties. Now let me tell you the story of a man named Dmitri On that tragic and fateful day He left his home in Russia, caught a plane for Las Vegas, Got caught up in DMCA. And did he ever return? No, he never returned, And his fate is still unlearned. He may rot forever in a federal prison He's a man who never returned. Now Dmitri wrote a paper about Adobe's eBook format And its copy protection flaw And he wrote a little program that let folks recover passwords And make backups as allowed by law. But the Digital Millenium Copyright Act Is a law that says you can't invent, Produce, sell or describe any device or program Such protection for to circumvent. So instead of thanking Dmitri for his help with their software And for speaking freely what he'd learned, They called in the FBI and had Dmitri arrested He's a man who never returned. Now there's one more little detail about copy protection So ironic that it must be told: If you can't make backup copies it's _illegal in Russia_ Where Adobe eBooks can't be sold! Now you citizens and readers, don't you think it's a scandal How the people have to pay and pay? Fight for fair use rights, fight to free Dmitri, And to bring down the DMCA! Or else he'll never return. No, he'll never return, And his fate will be unlearned. He may rot forever in a federal prison He's a man who never returned. Please feel free to archive, perform, record, publish, and otherwise distribute this song. Feel free to add verses, but if you do make sure your poetic license is up to date. Never anger a bard, for your name sounds funny and scans to many popular songs. This document has been encrypted with TITE (Triple Invertible Transform Encoding) by encrypting with ROT13, exclusive or with the text of the U.S. Constitution, and byte-by-byte subtraction from the contents of the file /dev/zero, followed by the same operations in reverse order for additional security. Describing the implementation details of this intricate procedure, and explaining why the document still appears to be readable afterwards, is a violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! -- / Steve Savitzky \ 1997 Pegasus Award winner: best science song--+ \ / http://theStarport.com/people/steve/ V \ \ hacker/songwriter: http://theStarport.com/people/steve/Doc/Songs/ \_ Kids' page: MOVED ---> http://Interesting.Places.to/Browse/forKids/ _/ _______________________________________________ svlug mailing list svlug@lists.svlug.org http://lists.svlug.org/lists/listinfo/svlug ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From ausage at ausage.com Mon Jul 23 00:57:38 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry filk by Savitzky! [steve@theStarport.org: [svlug] Dmitry and DMCA (protest song)] In-Reply-To: <20010723003747.E31725@zork.net> References: <20010723003747.E31725@zork.net> Message-ID: <01072303573900.18930@frankie> > This document has been encrypted with TITE (Triple Invertible Transform > Encoding) by encrypting with ROT13, exclusive or with the text of the > U.S. Constitution, and byte-by-byte subtraction from the contents of the > file /dev/zero, followed by the same operations in reverse order for > additional security. I hope you applied for a patent on this is. I am sure the US Patent office will grant one since in thirty years of computer programming I have never seen such a unique device in encryption technology. I would hate to seen some large corporation steal your idea to protect their electronic documents. :-) From ausage at ausage.com Mon Jul 23 01:02:13 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry filk by Savitzky! [steve@theStarport.org: [svlug] Dmitry and DMCA (protest song)] In-Reply-To: <20010723003747.E31725@zork.net> References: <20010723003747.E31725@zork.net> Message-ID: <01072303573900.18930@frankie> > This document has been encrypted with TITE (Triple Invertible Transform > Encoding) by encrypting with ROT13, exclusive or with the text of the > U.S. Constitution, and byte-by-byte subtraction from the contents of the > file /dev/zero, followed by the same operations in reverse order for > additional security. I hope you applied for a patent on this is. I am sure the US Patent office will grant one since in thirty years of computer programming I have never seen such a unique device in encryption technology. I would hate to seen some large corporation steal your idea to protect their electronic documents. :-) From dmarti at zgp.org Mon Jul 23 01:07:49 2001 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Tabinda's "Free Dmitry" flyer Message-ID: <20010723010749.A31265@zgp.org> Tabinda just sent me the following "Free Dmitry" materials, which I have put up at http://zgp.org/~dmarti/free_dmitry/ and we will be passing out copies of in San Jose tomorrow, I mean today. free_dmitry_flyer.doc -- Tabinda's flyer, MS-Word format free_dmitry_flyer.html -- Tabinda's flyer, HTML format free_dmitry_flyer.ps -- PostScript free_dmitry_poster1.png -- 477x716 "Free Dmitry" PNG (Thanks to Jamba Dunn for the last one.) -- Don Marti Free Dmitry! http://zgp.org/~dmarti Monday, July 23, San Jose, Moscow, and more dmarti@zgp.org http://boycottadobe.com/pages/rallies.html From misha2 at urbis.net.il Mon Jul 23 02:34:24 2001 From: misha2 at urbis.net.il (Michael Kupershtein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: [nylug-talk] pleeease arrange a mondayprotest. References: <000c01c1131d$26e97d20$5a05b3d8@realmeasures> Message-ID: <3B5BEFA0.51217B30@urbis.net.il> Seth Johnson wrote: > Could you elaborate on the principle(s) they have in place in Russia > that explain why they're so enlightened as to have made it actually > illegal? Seth Johnson Well, I'll do it instead. Section 15(2) of the Russian `Rights protection of computer software and databases` Act states that: (The translation was half-automatic, so it's not perfect, but it's pretty good) In accordance with the third paragraph of article 10 of the present Law, a person who legally owns a copy of a computer program or a database, has the right, without the consent of the copyright owner and without payment of an extra fee, to carry out the following actions: 1. To carry out adaptation of the computer program or a database; 2. To make a copy of the computer program or a database provided that this copy of the program is intended only for the archival purposes or (if the original computer program or database is lost, destroyed or became unsuitable for use) for replacement of legally acquired copy. However the copy of the computer program or a database can not be used for other purposes and should be destroyed in case further use of this computer program or a database ceases to be lawful. You can find the original at http://www.compulenta.ru/addon/2001/7/20/16116/ As you can see, it is plainly said that archival copies may be made without the copyright owner's consent. Therefore any software/database distributor that does not provide such a possibility would be in violation of the law, since he'd infringe on the RIGHT to make archival copies. It could be said, then, that the existence of Elcomsoft's software is the only thing that keeps eBook Reader legal in Russia. Ironic, isn't it? Michael From robertl1 at home.com Mon Jul 23 01:40:45 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The real criminals Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010723011030.025ae270@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Dmitry Sklyarov stands arrested by the United States FBI as a presumed criminal. His name becomes well known, his wife must explain to his children why their father is in a jail in the USA accused of being a criminal. Meanwhile his accusers fade into the peace of relative obscurity. There is no need for this. As Kafka said, "Evil always has an address". Basis of Charges 5. On June 26, 2001, I met with representatives of Adobe Systems, Incorporated (Adobe), located in San Jose, California. Kevin Nathanson, Group Products Manager, eBooks, Adobe, told me the following: a. Adobe produces computer software, including a software product named Adobe eBook Reader. b. eBook Reader works as follows: after users upload the program onto their personal computer systems, the users can contact a Internet Web based electronic bookseller such as Amazon.com or Barnes and Noble.com and purchase a book titles in an electronic format known as an eBook. As a result of a series of seamless transactions taking place between the electronic bookseller, an Adobe Server, and the customer's computer, users may only open and view the encrypted eBook on the specific computer that the user utilized to engage in the transaction. Because the process is taking place outside the view or control of the user, the user never sees the verification/decryption process taking place between the eBook file and the Adobe eBook Reader. Nevertheless, because the book sold in encrypted form and only accessible through the eBook Reader and is not duplicatable, the copyright holder's interest in the book is protected. c. Adobe is being victimized by a Russian company named Elcomsoft. Elcomsoft is distributing a key over the Internet in the form of a software program that illegally unlocks copyright protections on the e-Book files. This unlocking key is available for purchase on the Internet at http://www.elcomsoft.com/aebpr.html. The commercial name given by Elcomsoft to this unlocking key program is Advanced eBook Processor (AEBPR [snip] 19. On July 5, 2001, I spoke via telephone with Tom Diaz, Senior Engineering Manager for the eBook Development Group of Adobe. In response to my question, Diaz affirmed that he believes the Elcomsoft Software program, coupled with the Elcomsoft unlocking key, circumvents protection afforded by a technological measure developed by Adobe for its Acrobat eBook Reader either by avoiding, bypassing, removing, deactiviating, or otherwise impairing the technological measure. One is left to wonder who, what, when and where within Adobe Systems, Inc did this criminal complaint originate? Did John Warnock know that this was planned? Or was their entire board unaware? Perhaps the General Counsel, and Corporate Secretary of Adobe, Colleen M. Pouliot who holds a J.D. from the University of California, Davis School of Law and graduated summa cum laude with a B.S. in economics from the University of Santa Clara, would care to enlighten us. Suurely these individuals must be proud of there actions and desire the wider public to know of their righteous works. I suggest that everyone who can possibly find the time read the original criminal complaint, which was initiated by Adobe. See http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010707_complaint.html and Criminal Complaint, U.S. v. Sklyarov (July 7, 2001) [9 pages; misspellings in original.] Source: http://www.usaondca.com/press/assets/applets/2001_07_17_sklyarov.pdf Then form your own opinion as to who the real incompetents are. And ask yourself, "Who are the real criminals in this affair?". Finally I would suggest this. Until such time as the DMCA is repealed we may need a non profit prosecutorial organization to bring charges against the criminal executives which abound in this arena. Defense is a good thing, the EFF is fine albeit timid, but oftimes the best defense is a good offense. I see no logical reason why a well formed complaint should not be equally served on a major executive of a US corporation that is in violation of the DMCA as it is on a defenseless programmer. What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Onward, Bob La Quey From mgenin at computerra.ru Mon Jul 23 01:47:13 2001 From: mgenin at computerra.ru (Mike Genin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: [nylug-talk] pleeease arrange a mondayprotest. In-Reply-To: <3B5BEFA0.51217B30@urbis.net.il> References: <000c01c1131d$26e97d20$5a05b3d8@realmeasures> <3B5BEFA0.51217B30@urbis.net.il> Message-ID: <543458923.20010723124713@computerra.ru> Hello! MK> You can find the original at MK> http://www.compulenta.ru/addon/2001/7/20/16116/ MK> As you can see, it is plainly said that archival copies may be made MK> without the copyright MK> owner's consent. Therefore any software/database distributor that does MK> not provide such a MK> possibility would be in violation of the law, since he'd infringe on the MK> RIGHT to make MK> archival copies. It could be said, then, that the existence of MK> Elcomsoft's software is the MK> only thing that keeps eBook Reader legal in Russia. MK> Ironic, isn't it? I want to add, that the software is not illegat itself. But if it comes to the classaction suit on the Adobe, it would be an easy win then. -- Best regards, Mike Genin Computerra Publishing www.ibo.ru - www.computerra.ru mailto:mgenin@computerra.ru From ausage at ausage.com Mon Jul 23 01:50:13 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] American companies trafficking in Circumvention devices Message-ID: <01072304501301.19019@frankie> Many people and business protect their (copyrighted) private documents and data with the "encryption" methods built into office suite applications. A very quick search on google.com reveals the following American companies are trafficking in copyright circumvention devices (i.e. password recovery tools). CNET Networks, Inc 150 Chestnut Street San Francisco, CA 96111 http://www.cnet.com CRAK Software 814 E. Coral Gables Dr. Phoenix, AZ 95022 http://www.crak.com AccessData Corporation 2500 North University Ave Suite 200 Provo, UT 84604-3864 http://www.accessdata.com LastBit Software Bridge Plaza Office Center 2928 41st Avenue, Suite 910B L.I. City, New York 11101-3302 http://www.lastbit.com Before anyone says, hey that's not applicable... its only for private documents, I have a client that distributes a very expensive commercial database, $1,000 - $2,000 US per copy, as an encrypted MS Access database relying on Access's buildin password protection (Stupid I know, but that's what they do and they are not the only ones). That product is sold in the US. Therefore according to the DMCA, any password recovery program is a circumvention device. Why is the FBI persecuting a Russian hacker. What have they not charged any of these American companies, who are doing exactly the same thing as Dimitry and Elcomsoft. -- Andrew Lawrence Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 From andrea at gravitt.org Mon Jul 23 01:59:57 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Atlanta? Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001 22:19, ? wrote: >Any outcome from the Atlanta meeting? There were two people at the organizational meeting. Three if you count the friend who just happened to be there anyway and got dragged over. We have decided to work on flyers for now and talk about a possible demonstration again after today's events. Andrea ------------------------------------------------------- feorlen at acm dot org From andrea at gravitt.org Mon Jul 23 02:38:27 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ACM and EFF Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001 23:04, Seth Johnson wrote: >Somebody tell us, please.?But hey Andrea, your addy is from ACM.? You know where >to target comments?? No, but I'm going to go look. I've not paid much attention to them recently so I'm really out of the loop as far as who is doing what. Andrea ------------------------------------------------------- feorlen at acm dot org From paul at paultopia.net Mon Jul 23 03:55:36 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] voices screaming with maniacal laughter (was: Re: locking up books) Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010723045530.03891700@mail.paultopia.net> Eric said: >Yes, these companies are trying to do with the law what >they fail to do with technology. But the impact on us >technologists is severe. It means that cryptographic >scientists can't even disclose publicly what they found >wrong with weak schemes by companies such as Adobe or >the DVD-CCA. Hence the transcendent virtue anonymity. Raised to a more amusingly extreme level: There's a little strange voice in my head that says "what would happen if a bunch of hackers [or even civil libertarian software engineers... ] were to spend their time exposing/breaking weak encryption, but, rather than simply do it anonymously, 'encrypt' their identities behind ROT-13 or some such... rot... such that, at the very moment the software company target files suit against the doeishly innocent cryptographer, they confess their own violation of the very same act, with hopefully offsetting damages, and -- get this -- for financial advantage! (to protect their market for the flawed product), hence subjecting them to criminal prosecution as well!" Too cute? Watch there's an exception in the DMCA somewhere I don't know about making this impossible. Never actually read it from start to finish. -Paul -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org Mon Jul 23 04:08:05 2001 From: free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org (Julian T. J. Midgley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010722185925.03900698@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: > On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > Hey Paul, > My take on our conversation was that it consisted of > a lot more than just "Trust me". > > If anyone else would like to chat, I am available, > as many of you already know since I'm pretty sure > I've spoken and/or emailed with dozens of you at > this point. As an independent observer, with no affiliation to the EFF other than that I have made the odd donation in the past, it seems to me that there is altogether too much paranoia surrounding the recent discussions of their actions. It does the movement no great harm for the EFF to agree to ask for the protests to be delayed in order to be allowed to hold a meeting with Adobe. As we have seen, they have publically requested a delay (thus sticking to their end of the bargain), without this actually having significant effect on the demonstrations themselves. If this is what is necessary in order to be able to sit down at a table with Adobe then it (the request, unheeded, for a delay) is a small price to pay for the opportunity to engage in negotiations which may assist in freeing Dmitry. As regards the 'secrecy' surrounding their communications with Adobe, I don't believe we have any reason to be afraid that the EFF have suddenly caved in and joined with the enemy (or anything like that). We have plenty of evidence that the EFF believe strongly in the cause they are fighting, and they are quite clearly one of the most effective weapons in the fight against the DMCA. Their past actions make this abundantly clear. It would not be in the EFF's interests to agree to any form of gagging order, but if Adobe were to say, at the end of the meeting, "we can at this stage make only a statement to a certain limited effect, but after the meeting we will hold further internal discussions with the aim of being able to do X on such and such a date, and we would prefer it if you didn't mention X until that date", then the EFF might reasonably, as a matter of good faith, not mention X until the date concerned (when they would be free to mention it regardless of whether Adobe actually got round to doing it or not). Negotiations can be a delicate business, and their smooth progress is not always best assured by immediate public disclosure of everything that has been said. If you can find any evidence that the EFF has caved in to unreasonable corporate demands in the past, or ever given up the causes they set out to fight for, then you might have reason to doubt their motives now. I have every confidence that the EFF will do what is right, and look forward to hearing the results of the meeting later today. Julian Midgley -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Mon Jul 23 04:07:07 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:43 2005 Subject: correction/audio Re: [free-sklyarov] Pronunciation of Dmitry's name. In-Reply-To: <20010722190516.B13349@zork.net> Message-ID: I stuck up a couple of sound clips of the exact russian pronounciations at http://csua.berkeley.edu/~alexf/sklyarov/. See my comments on Nick's recommendations for simplified pronounciation below: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Nick Moffitt wrote: > Begin C. Scott Ananian quotation: > > Can one of the Russians on the list record an audio file with the > > definitive pronunciation of Dmitry's name? I'd like to make sure all of > > us don't massacre it when we give press interviews tomorrow. Thanks! > > I don't have appropriate recording equipment, but it is > pronounced sklee-YA-rohv > > sklee as in "ski" with an L thrown in. > YA as in the German word for "yes" (spelled "ja"). > rov with the o as in "offer". > > Proper Russians will not pronounce the "ee" in the "sklee" > syllable, but will instead soften the l in a manner that is difficult > to describe in English e-mail. However, it is good enough for > Americans to pronounce it as three syllables. If you use the three-syllable approximation as Nick [reasonably] suggests, don't pronounce the "y"/"j" in "ya" -- just sklee-A-rohff (the same A sound as you find in german "Ja" [for "yes"]), otherwise it sounds virtually unrecognizable. Also, note "-ff" instead of "-v" ending -- native pronounciation would almost definitely put a voiceless sound there. To follow Nick's example, it's just "off" as in "offer"... -- -alexf, the last russian native speaker to go to sleep in PDT and still hope to wake up in time for the SJ protest P.S. M4D PR0P5 2 4LL MY H0M13Z who turned out for the sign-making event and stayed for nearly 12 hours to make a bunch of great signs. See yall out there tomorrow. P.P.S. To translate into normative English for those not bilingual in 1335SP34K, the above roughly translates to "I kindly acknowledge my esteemed fellow colleagues who..." From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Jul 23 04:36:25 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Announcements-only list (free-sklyarov-announce) Message-ID: <20010723043625.D16178@zork.net> Vadim Kogan of the UC Berkeley Experimental Computing Facility has graciously provided us with the following announcement-only list. https://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-announce/ (You need a web browser with SSL support to subscribe to this list using the web form; you can also send the message "subscribe" to the address free-sklyarov-announce-request@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu to be subscribed.) For those who are looking for a low-volume announcement list, you are welcome to join this new list. I will also advise those who have recently unsubscribed that this announce list may be easier to keep up with than the current list. This list will continue to exist for those who enjoy its unmoderated discussions and announcements. The new list will be moderated and will accept _only_ news and announcements, not discussion threads. If you're still here and thinking of switching over to the announce list, I suggest waiting until after tomorrow if possible, because there should be _so much_ news here tomorrow that it would be difficult to summarize it effectively on the announce list. Note that if you just stay on this list, you won't be missing anything because all announcements that get sent to the announce list will be sent here too. Good luck, everybody! -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From mrmanley at home.com Mon Jul 23 04:52:02 2001 From: mrmanley at home.com (Monty R Manley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's Welfare In-Reply-To: References: <20010722202457.79de6ac8.mrmanley@home.com> Message-ID: <20010723065202.1b5ef378.mrmanley@home.com> On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 01:18:42 -0700 "Sean Parker" wrote: I don't know him personally; I listen to "Off The Hook" (see www.2600.com) regularly and remember hearing about it there. That would have been in 1997 or 1998, I think -- I'd need to check. Bernie still shows up on the show quite a bit. Regards, Monty > how do you know bernie s? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > > [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Monty R Manley > > Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 6:25 PM > > To: free-sklyarov > > Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's Welfare > > > > > > Has anyone gotten any news at all about how Dmitry is faring > > while in jail? I worry about his welfare -- he's foreign, > > doesn't appear to speak english well, and is probably still in > > doubt as to his legal status. I also worry about the people he's > > imprisoned with (murderers, rapists, etc.). > > > > Anyone remember what happened to Bernie S. while he was in jail? > > For those who don't know, Bernie had his jaw broken badly by a > > convict who wanted to use the phone while Bernie was talking. > > After he kicked Bernie to the ground, he kept kicking and not > > only broke Bernie's jaw but also his arm (if memory serves me > > correctly). I worry about the same kind of thing happening to Dmitry. > > > > Has anyone been in touch with Dmitry? Is there a mailing address > > so we can send him books, magazines, etc.? > > > > Free Dmitry, > > > > Monty Manley > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Visit my blog at http://mrorganic.blogspot.com From chris.savage at crblaw.com Mon Jul 23 04:52:32 2001 From: chris.savage at crblaw.com (Chris Savage) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fighting the DMCA Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Declan McCullagh [mailto:declan@well.com] > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 12:58 PM > To: Chris Savage > Cc: 'James S. Tyre'; Chad Horton; free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Fighting the DMCA > > > On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 08:34:37AM -0400, Chris Savage wrote: >>That said, a la "The Weapon Shops of Isher," I kinda liked >>the 2nd Amendment >>idea... > >>Yeah, this came up a few times in the crypto debates -- until folks >>realized how many regulations firearms are subject to. > >>Imagine: A waiting period until you can get "portable PDF decryptors," >>a flat ban on "assault PDF decoders," no concealed carry of "portable >>PDF decryptors" in most cities, a federal database of "PDF decoder" >>owners, restrictions on owning PDFware if you're a convicted >>felon, etc. But with encryption already having been classified as a "munition" in the export regs, aren't we half-way there? And the sheer political poetry of having EFF and ACLU cheek-to-jowl with the NRA lobbying for treatment of software akin to the way the NRA thinks guns should be treated... Who knows? W won't listen to EFF or ACLU, but maybe if Charleton Heston comes out in favor of Dmitri, something would happen! Chris S. *************************************************************************** This electronic mail transmission may contain confidential or privileged information. If you believe that you have received the message in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. *************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010723/c12a118b/attachment.htm From mellon at pobox.com Mon Jul 23 04:52:51 2001 From: mellon at pobox.com (Anatoly Vorobey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:43 2005 Subject: correction/audio Re: [free-sklyarov] Pronunciation of Dmitry's name. In-Reply-To: ; from Alex Fabrikant on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 04:07:07AM -0700 References: <20010722190516.B13349@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010723145251.12025@techunix.technion.ac.il> You, Alex Fabrikant, were spotted writing this on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 04:07:07AM -0700: > I stuck up a couple of sound clips of the exact russian pronounciations at > http://csua.berkeley.edu/~alexf/sklyarov/. See my comments on Nick's > recommendations for simplified pronounciation below: It might not be immediately obvious to Americans that "Dima" is a shorter, informal version of "Dmitri" (like e.g. Dick/Richard). You might want, perhaps, to change the second clip from "svobodu Dime" (freedom to Dima) into "svobodu Dmitriyu" or "osvobodite Dmitriya" (free Dmitri)? -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton From larsg at eurorights.org Mon Jul 23 04:53:34 2001 From: larsg at eurorights.org (Lars Gaarden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] voices screaming with maniacal laughter (was: Re: locking up books) References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010723045530.03891700@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <3B5C103E.6000802@eurorights.org> Paul Gowder wrote: > Raised to a more amusingly extreme level: There's a little strange voice > in my head that says "what would happen if a bunch of hackers [or even > civil libertarian software engineers... ] were to spend their time > exposing/breaking weak encryption, but, rather than simply do it > anonymously, 'encrypt' their identities behind ROT-13 or some such... > rot... such that, at the very moment the software company target files > suit against the doeishly innocent cryptographer, they confess their own > violation of the very same act, with hopefully offsetting damages, and > -- get this -- for financial advantage! (to protect their market for the > flawed product), hence subjecting them to criminal prosecution as well!" > > Too cute? > > Watch there's an exception in the DMCA somewhere I don't know about > making this impossible. Never actually read it from start to finish. This is at best somewhat-offtopic, but anyway. :) There is an exception for law enforcement. So, it would be illegal for Adobe to decrypt the author's name but it is legal for the police to do so. -- LarsG From chris.savage at crblaw.com Mon Jul 23 05:03:25 2001 From: chris.savage at crblaw.com (Chris Savage) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Please relax, and read this plea for compassi on Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Weesner [mailto:Jonathan@Weesner.org] > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 7:52 AM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: [free-sklyarov] Please relax, and read this plea for > compassion > >I believe that somewhere in this confusing little picture, there is a >simple truth. A young Russian man has become trapped in a firestorm of >controversial, untested, American legislation.... and he needs to go >home to his family. I took a stab at describing the problem to a non-cyber-oriented person of my acquaintance. She was outraged that Dmitry was in jail. Then she said something like, "I wonder if this is political. I heard on NPR in the last six months or so about a young US citizen with a technology background arrested in Russia on trumped-up drug/alcohol charges, but told he would be released if he revealed what his company was working on." I too vaguely recall such a case. But putting aside my recollections, (a) anyone know if it's true? and (b) if it is, then this is not quite a Cold War phenonmenon, maybe just a "Cool War" (apologies to F. Pohl) phenomenon. Chris S. *************************************************************************** This electronic mail transmission may contain confidential or privileged information. If you believe that you have received the message in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. *************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010723/f1742469/attachment.html From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Jul 23 05:10:16 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:44 2005 Subject: correction/audio Re: [free-sklyarov] Pronunciation of Dmitry's name. In-Reply-To: <20010723145251.12025@techunix.technion.ac.il>; from mellon@pobox.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 02:52:51PM +0300 References: <20010722190516.B13349@zork.net> <20010723145251.12025@techunix.technion.ac.il> Message-ID: <20010723051016.E16178@zork.net> Anatoly Vorobey writes: > You, Alex Fabrikant, were spotted writing this on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 04:07:07AM -0700: > > I stuck up a couple of sound clips of the exact russian pronounciations at > > http://csua.berkeley.edu/~alexf/sklyarov/. See my comments on Nick's > > recommendations for simplified pronounciation below: > > It might not be immediately obvious to Americans that "Dima" is a shorter, > informal version of "Dmitri" (like e.g. Dick/Richard). You might want, > perhaps, to change the second clip from "svobodu Dime" (freedom to Dima) into > "svobodu Dmitriyu" or "osvobodite Dmitriya" (free Dmitri)? I was present and worked on this with Alex (I'm not a Russian speaker) and it was clear to me that non-Russians will just _ask you to translate_ and not actually try to parse the Russian text. Every non-Russian who saw or heard the "svobodu Dime" simply asked what it meant and was content with the answer. Plus, you can't change that slogan now! I've already learned to pronounce it! :-) -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From harrold at sage.che.pitt.edu Mon Jul 23 05:31:29 2001 From: harrold at sage.che.pitt.edu (harrold@sage.che.pitt.edu) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA/FREE DMITRY Flyers - IGNORE FIRST In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sometime in July <> assaulted keyboard and produced... |Ok, so my first message was a bit large. | |The DMCA fliers can be found at http://www.octanoid.org/dmca/ | |Feel free to rip as you feel needed. | |Original message follows: | |At Kinko's and printing off some flyers, I worked with these and if printed |doublesided and tripple folded you can get: | | FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV! | REPEAL THE DMCA! | |On one side, a picture of Dmitry's family on the other, and a whole |description of the event on the inside. | |Yes, PDF is evil, adobe sucks, but unfortunately some of us still have to |deal with it until the world changes. Kinko's will probably be the last. |They are attached in .pdf and .doc format. Enjoy. postscript? i know adobe developed it but postscript is an open standard. in windows all you have to do is install a postscript printer driver and then select print to file. john From snair at utstar.com Mon Jul 23 05:40:13 2001 From: snair at utstar.com (Sreeni R. Nair) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NY Times Article Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723083723.00ac3360@mail.utstar.com> Today's New York Times has a well-written article by Jennifer 8. Lee and Amy Harmon on the Dmitry affair. The article is on the first Business Page itself, it is moderately long, and very pro-Dmitry. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/23/technology/23DIGI.html -- The ordinary man acts because he thinks his act will be profitable; the superior man, however, acts because he thinks his act is right. -- Confucius From pmasloch at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 05:56:05 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] You have my support! (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20010723080523.A3560@debianut.ekmnet> Message-ID: It is sad but you are so right with your comment. Also, most people are not even interrested to learn something.... Peter I believe that the root cause for this is that a major portion of the Americans are not politically active. They stand divided on many crucial issues and this weakness is exploited by the "Corporates" to pit one against the other. The Americans have forgotten to talk about freedom which they have won over and which they are slowly letting slip away. Very soon, the United States would be worse off than China or say the former USSR. The US is no more a model for me, a free software enthusiast. The US is the worst place for a software designer/developer/programmer ! -- ragOO, VU2RGU Keeping the Air-Waves FREE...........Amateur Radio Keeping your Software FREE.........the GNU Project Keeping the W W W FREE....Debian GNU/${kernel} _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From rms at privacyfoundation.org Mon Jul 23 05:58:15 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] American spelling of Sklyarov In-Reply-To: <20010723051016.E16178@zork.net> Message-ID: <001401c11377$24387400$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Hi, BTW, One American spelling of "Sklyarov" is "Sclaroff". The name is pretty much pronounced as it is spelled: Sc-lair-off Yahoo finds 12 Sclaroff's living here in the US. The US Attorney's Office tried to put a "Sky" in the front of the name when I spoke to them on the phone, but they are confused. ;-) The name means "scholar" in Russian. Richard M. Smith CTO, Privacy Foundation From rms at privacyfoundation.org Mon Jul 23 06:02:48 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe on trial In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723083723.00ac3360@mail.utstar.com> Message-ID: <001601c11377$c6786720$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Everyone should make sure to vote on the two survey questions here at this Upside article: Is Adobe a software thug? http://www.upside.com/On_Trial/3b589a9d1_yahoo.html Richard From Barmenkov at bpc.ru Mon Jul 23 05:59:58 2001 From: Barmenkov at bpc.ru (Barmenkov Denis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] American spelling of Sklyarov Message-ID: <01BB80B981CFD4119BD2000021FE1B1012ABCE@BLADE> > > The name means "scholar" in Russian. > > Richard M. Smith > CTO, Privacy Foundation > this isnt true. Sklyarov is authentic name, not common word. Best regards, Denis Barmenkov Banking Produ?tion Centre --------------------------------------------------------------------- work: (095) 933-20-50/51/52/53 ext.233 work: (095) 204-12-10/11/13/17 ext.233 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- The information in this electronic mail message is private and confidential, and only intended for the addressee. Should you receive this message by mistake, you are hereby notified that any use, disclosure, reproduction or distribution of this message is strictly prohibited. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- From mellon at pobox.com Mon Jul 23 06:14:04 2001 From: mellon at pobox.com (Anatoly Vorobey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] American spelling of Sklyarov In-Reply-To: <001401c11377$24387400$6501a8c0@tiac.net>; from Richard M. Smith on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 08:58:15AM -0400 References: <20010723051016.E16178@zork.net> <001401c11377$24387400$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20010723161404.51150@techunix.technion.ac.il> You, Richard M. Smith, were spotted writing this on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 08:58:15AM -0400: > The name means "scholar" in Russian. Uhm, no, it doesn't. -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton From pmasloch at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 06:20:21 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NY Times Article In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723083723.00ac3360@mail.utstar.com> Message-ID: ....and so far the only article i have seen who calls Dimitry a programmer which is in my eyes very important since the regular media coverage is always trying to give the word 'hacker' a negative touch. Peter Today's New York Times has a well-written article by Jennifer 8. Lee and Amy Harmon on the Dmitry affair. The article is on the first Business Page itself, it is moderately long, and very pro-Dmitry. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/23/technology/23DIGI.html -- The ordinary man acts because he thinks his act will be profitable; the superior man, however, acts because he thinks his act is right. -- Confucius _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From izel at sulam.com Mon Jul 23 06:24:15 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA/FREE DMITRY Flyers - IGNORE FIRST Message-ID: xyz@kalifornia.com xyz@kalifornia.com wrote: >Yes, PDF is evil, adobe sucks, but unfortunately some of us still have to >deal with it until the world changes. Kinko's will probably be the last. I disagree with this. pdf is not evil. Adobe no longer owns the open pdf standard in any meaningful way. Adobe and the open pdf standard have been decoupled sufficiently, such that even if all Adobe products and even Adobe itself disappeared off the planet tomorrow, we could still do lots of wonderful and useful things with existing pdf files and third party pdf tools. There is a healthy tradition of companies seeing value in open standards and opening what were previously closed standards to the entire IT community. There is also a parallel healthy tradition (and legal act) of clean-room reverse engineering of closed standards to figure out a standard and build competing products, when the company with the closed standard is not as cooperative. These two traditions in tandem have given us such useful open standards as Postscript, pdf, Flash, Napster/OpenNap, ICQ, etc. I do encourage people to actively boycott Adobe products, but pdf is no longer an Adobe product or standard. pdf is an open standard, and there are a zillion software tools out there, some closed source, some open source, some free, some Free, and some neither, which produce and process pdf files in all kinds of useful ways. Thanks. - izel From chris.savage at crblaw.com Mon Jul 23 06:25:50 2001 From: chris.savage at crblaw.com (Chris Savage) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The New Constitution Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon O . [mailto:jono@microshaft.org] > Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 8:26 PM > To: vadim > Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: [free-sklyarov] The New Constitution > > > > The DMCA is derived from the WIPO - World Intellectual > Property Organization. > > Someone might want to wite who knows a bit more, but the DMCA > was a response to rules enacted by the WIPO. This is part of the whole > globalization thing everyone is so pissed about. Look: As I understand it, this is not quite right. IANA-copyright-L, but from what I have read, what happened was domestic-US copyright interests pushed, in the '93-'96 time frame, for much less consumer-friendly copyright laws; but they were rebuffed. Then at the WIPO meetings leading to the treaty, they tried again, but did not get treaty language to be as non-consumer-friendly as they had hoped (or at all). But then when the treaty came back to the US for ratification, the copyright interests said it required some "implementing legislation" (others said that existing US law was already in compliance with the treaty). But here the copyright interests prevailed, and the DMCA got put through as, supposedly, legislation needed to "implement" a treaty that did not actually require it. In your copious free time, check out "Digital Copyright" by Jessica Litman (I got mine via Amazon) for more details. Chris S. *************************************************************************** This electronic mail transmission may contain confidential or privileged information. If you believe that you have received the message in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. *************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010723/a786ea11/attachment.htm From chuck at jacksons.net Mon Jul 23 07:14:58 2001 From: chuck at jacksons.net (Charles L. Jackson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Savage, Heston, and gun nuts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Chris Savage wrote: > Who knows? W won't listen to EFF or ACLU, but maybe if Charleton Heston > comes out in favor of Dmitri, something would happen! In fact, many gun rights activists are well aware of the parallel between 2nd Amendment rights and 1st Amendment rights. If you go to groups.google.com (nee Dejavu), call up talk.politics.guns, and do a search for messages with the term encryption, you will get about 20,000 hits. Of course, a lot of the hits are caused by one person whose sig line is "If my 'assault rifle' makes me a criminal, And my encryption program makes me a terrorist, Does Dianne Feinstein's vagina make her a prostitute? You can also go to Eric Raymond's web page Geeks with guns (http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/geeks-with-guns/. (If you don't know who ESR is, that's bizarre--but you can go to the Cathedral and find out.) Similarly, look at the discussions of Carnivore and CALEA at the independence institute http://i2i.org/CrimJust.htm. Chuck Jackson From mark at blorch.org Mon Jul 23 07:35:21 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NY Times Article In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072307352103.15652@bilbo.blorch.org> On Monday 23 July 2001 06:20, Peter wrote: > ....and so far the only article i have seen who calls Dimitry a > programmer which is in my eyes very important since the regular media > coverage is always trying to give the word 'hacker' a negative touch. > Peter > > Today's New York Times has a well-written article by Jennifer 8. Lee and > Amy Harmon on the Dmitry affair. The article is on the first Business > Page > itself, it is moderately long, and very pro-Dmitry. > > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/23/technology/23DIGI.html > And has Adobe whining about the protests, about the "mudslinging" we're all allegedly doing, AND claiming it's all "out of our hands" now. Nothing's going to happen at the EFF/Adobe meeting today. Adobe's already told the NY Times there's nothing they can do now. The point of meeting with the EFF is apparently just to shut us all up. Mark From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Mon Jul 23 07:39:55 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:45 2005 Subject: corrections Re: [free-sklyarov] American spelling of Sklyarov In-Reply-To: <001401c11377$24387400$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Richard M. Smith wrote: > BTW, One American spelling of "Sklyarov" is "Sclaroff". The name > is pretty much pronounced as it is spelled: > Sc-lair-off > Yahoo finds 12 Sclaroff's living here in the US. Yes, those were _once_ the same name; the pronounciation of the last name "Sclaroff" in the US is as you said. This does not mean that it's the same in terms of pronounciation as the Russian original. See previous discussion for details. > The US Attorney's Office tried to put a "Sky" in the front of the name > when I spoke to them on the phone, but they are confused. ;-) Indeed they are. > The name means "scholar" in Russian. As the other natives have pointed out, it ceartainly does NOT directly mean that in modern Russian. My HUNCH is that the etymology is >90% likely to have ONCE been from the same root as the English "scholar" (presumably diverging at Greek), but do NOT take this for a fact until someone verifies the etymology, which I don't have time to do right now, and can given reasonable evidence behind their claim... -- -alexf From dredd at megacity.org Mon Jul 23 07:54:37 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] San Diego results? Message-ID: What were the results of the San Diego OSCON group meeting last night? I was in the lobby lounge last night but didn't see any meeting take place, so either I was in the wrong lobby (the Sheraton has two towers, with two lobbies), I somehow missed a large group gathering in front of my eyes (quite possible), or it was a complete failure. Any info? D -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 23 08:03:15 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] San Diego results? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87bsmblmbw.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "DB" == Derek Balling writes: DB> I was in the lobby lounge last night but didn't DB> see any meeting take place, so either I was in the wrong lobby DB> (the Sheraton has two towers, with two lobbies), I somehow DB> missed a large group gathering in front of my eyes (quite DB> possible), or it was a complete failure. Hey, YOU made it! That's no failure. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From karl.deabrew at binarything.com Mon Jul 23 08:03:20 2001 From: karl.deabrew at binarything.com (Karl De Abrew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why ElcomSoft attended Def Con conference Message-ID: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F6BC@mail.roundtable.com.au> You might be interested to read this: ElcomSoft employee Vladimir Katalov comments on what his company does and why it spoke at Def Con, and he responds to Peter Zelchenko's recent "Sklyarov meets Copyright, East meets West article." More... http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=187 -Karl _________________________________________ Karl De Abrew karl.deabrew@binarything.com http://www.planetpdf.com/ http://www.planetebook.com/ http://www.xmlarena.com/ http://www.binarything.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network From pedro at tastytronic.net Mon Jul 23 08:12:27 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] GOING TO THE PROTEST! Message-ID: <20010723101227.L8747@tastytronic.net> It's ON! Chicago is mobilizing now! Good luck everyone, and FREE DMITRY! pedro and the chicago group -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- FBI has imprisioned a Russian software engineer for promoting and teaching the concept of "fair use". Read more: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 23 08:15:05 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] GOING TO THE PROTEST! In-Reply-To: <20010723101227.L8747@tastytronic.net> References: <20010723101227.L8747@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: <87y9pfk77q.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "PAP" == Peter A Peterson writes: PAP> It's ON! Chicago is mobilizing now! PAP> Good luck everyone, and PAP> FREE DMITRY! Right on! Go go go! ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From travel at elcomsoft.com Mon Jul 23 08:20:28 2001 From: travel at elcomsoft.com (Vladimir Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why ElcomSoft attended Def Con conference Message-ID: <1846347397.20010723192028@elcomsoft.com> Hello, Officially from ElcomSoft, in response to recent "Sklyarov meets Copyright, East meets West" publication: http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=187 /Vladimir Katalov From andrea at gravitt.org Mon Jul 23 08:24:58 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Reuters story on cnn.com front page Message-ID: <00d801c1138b$a4cc0320$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> I didn't notice this last time I looked. I guess it's new. It's not at the top of their main page, but it is *on* the main page. http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/07/23/hacker.arrest.reut/index.html Rallies planned for arrested hacker LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- The arrest this week of a 26-year-old Russian software programmer accused of violating U.S. copyright law has sparked protests and pledges of support from a wide range of free speech advocates, defense lawyers and consumer groups. From cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu Mon Jul 23 08:25:15 2001 From: cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] URGENT: needed, slashdot article! Message-ID: see below email from hemos. I tried my hand on an adobe-neutral "23 protests are happening" story and apparently it wasn't good enough. so fo for it, guys! 30 minutes before the start of our EST protests! make sure to tell people they can come late, just *come*! --s ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:25:09 -0400 (EDT) From: hemos To: C. Scott Ananian Subject: Re: free dmitry protests. Because no one has submitted a good one. On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, C. Scott Ananian wrote: > i don't know why slashdot isn't running a 'protests *today*' article. the > eff is behind them at this point. it's pertinent political activism. > we need the extra slashdot bodies, although it might now be too late. > > does it *have* to be anti-adobe in order to be a legitimate protest? > --s > > On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Stanton McCandlish (mech@eff.org) wrote: > > > FWIW, my suggestion would be to bring anti-Adobe signs as well, and > > just keep them under wraps unless/until they become called-for in the > > even Adobe screws us over. > > > > > > At 8:50 AM -0400 on 7/23/01, C. Scott Ananian wrote: > > > > > On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > > > > > >> Note: Many protests postponing focus on Adobe until after > > >> meeting on July 23, focusing on "Free Dmitry" and > > >> "Reform the DMCA" instead. > > > > > > yes. for what it's worth, the (many!) posters and banners the Boston > > > group made yesterday don't mention the "a-word" once. There may well be > > > some home-grown ones showing up at the protest, but we've chosen to > > > concentrate entirely on 'fair use' and 'free dmitry' -- this round out. > > > Let me say, though, that everyone here is *itching* for a knock-down > > > drag-out adobe fight --- we've got *so many* great poster, logo, etc > > > ideas! So the EFF folk should be sure to communicate that in their > > > negotiations. If 13 worldwide physical protests is bad, wait till you see > > > what happens when we unsheath our claws. > > > > > > For Boston's part, we've got a *lot* of business press contacts in our > > > file which are mostly unused this round, since we're concentrating mostly > > > on civil liberties. But trust me: the wall street journal and friends > > > *will* hear about the next round. > > > --s > > > > -- > > > > > > -- > > Stanton McCandlish mech@eff.org http://www.eff.org/~mech > > Technical Director/Webmaster Electronic Frontier Foundation > > voice: +1 415 436 9333 x105 fax: +1 415 436 9993 > > EFF, 454 Shotwell St. San Francisco CA 94110 USA > > > > > > > Sudan fissionable Rijndael MI6 explosion ASW corporate globalization > mustard Echelon AK-47 Nader Milosevic counter-intelligence Bush DES > ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian ) > -- > "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is > all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970, > minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4. > -- > [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/] > #!/usr/bin/perl -w > # 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz > # MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout > # arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order > $_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5; > $_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d= > unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d > >>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9 > ,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t > ^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271)) > [$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval > _________________________________________________________________________ Jeff "hemos" Bates http://osdn.com hemos@slashdot.org http://hemos.net jeff.bates@osdn.com http://slashdot.org hemos@blockstackers.com http://blockstackers.com "Dude, you're sick. Go get a lozenge." -Emmett "Lucille" Plant ________________________________________________________________________ From dep21 at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jul 23 08:38:14 2001 From: dep21 at yahoo.co.uk (d p) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Article on DMCA || boycottadobe.co.uk Message-ID: <20010723153815.7725.qmail@web4305.mail.yahoo.com> Interesting academic article on copyright protection in the digital age (not up-to-date on Sklyarov, of course, but good on the DMCA): http://elj.warwick.ac.uk/jilt/01-1/waelde.html Plus: boycottadobe.co.uk is now up and running and pointing to boycottadobe.com. Any UK / EU people out there who'd like to supply content for the .co.uk site, please do! Would be nice to get it differentiated with local content in some way... dp. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From honig at sprynet.com Mon Jul 23 08:25:26 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: [nylug-talk] pleeease arrange a mondayprotest. In-Reply-To: <3B5BEFA0.51217B30@urbis.net.il> References: <000c01c1131d$26e97d20$5a05b3d8@realmeasures> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010723082526.00989670@pop.sprynet.com> At 11:34 AM 7/23/01 +0200, Michael Kupershtein wrote: > >In accordance with the third paragraph of article 10 of the present Law, >a person who legally owns >a copy of a computer program or a database, has the right, without the >consent of the copyright owner >and without payment of an extra fee, to carry out the following actions: > >1. To carry out adaptation of the computer program or a database; > >2. To make a copy of the computer program or a database provided that >this copy of the program is >intended only for the archival purposes or (if the original computer >program or database >is lost, destroyed or became unsuitable for use) for replacement of >legally acquired copy. >However the copy of the computer program or a database can not be used >for other purposes and >should be destroyed in case further use of this computer program or a >database ceases to be lawful. > >You can find the original at >http://www.compulenta.ru/addon/2001/7/20/16116/ >As you can see, it is plainly said that archival copies may be made >without the copyright >owner's consent. This is US law too. Therefore any software/database distributor that does >not provide such a >possibility would be in violation of the law, since he'd infringe on the >RIGHT to make >archival copies. You don't infringe others freedoms (to make backups) by making it hard to try. It could be said, then, that the existence of >Elcomsoft's software is the >only thing that keeps eBook Reader legal in Russia. >Ironic, isn't it? That interpretation doesn't follow. From jim.thompson at pobox.com Mon Jul 23 07:47:48 2001 From: jim.thompson at pobox.com (Jim Thompson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] URGENT: needed, slashdot article! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15196.14114.412502.770011@belboz> >>>>> "C" == C Scott Ananian writes: C> see below email from hemos. I tried my hand on an adobe-neutral C> "23 protests are happening" story and apparently it wasn't good C> enough. so fo for it, guys! 30 minutes before the start of our C> EST protests! make sure to tell people they can come late, just C> *come*! --s >> i don't know why slashdot isn't running a 'protests *today*' >> article. the eff is behind them at this point. it's pertinent >> political activism. we need the extra slashdot bodies, although >> it might now be too late. Hemos> Because no one has submitted a good one. Oh, puhleeze. These guys will make sure they have a movie review written up for every major flick that might interest geeks, but when something truly newsworthy comes along their excuse for missing the boat is "Because no one ELSE has written the story." ? Jeeze... and they wonder why people laugh when they call themselves "journalists". OK, so what has been submitted so far? I don't have the raw facts at hand to throw together my own story, but I volunteer my humble editorial skills to help anybody else get their story polished and ready to go. Maybe we can put together something that Hemos won't turn his nose up at... in time to publicize the west coast protests. Jim -- jim.thompson@pobox.com http://jimthompson.org From pmasloch at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 08:58:16 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] the press In-Reply-To: <00d801c1138b$a4cc0320$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> Message-ID: I have e-mailed a couple things to Fox5 (WTTG) and CBS (wusatv9), both in D.C. I also have send e-mails to 2 more or less local newspapers in my area (Western MD) Peter From ilya at theIlya.com Mon Jul 23 09:02:14 2001 From: ilya at theIlya.com (Ilya Volynets) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:46 2005 Subject: corrections Re: [free-sklyarov] American spelling of Sklyarov In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0107230902140P.19305@gateway> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > As the other natives have pointed out, it ceartainly does NOT directly > mean that in modern Russian. My HUNCH is that the etymology is >90% likely > to have ONCE been from the same root as the English "scholar" (presumably > diverging at Greek), but do NOT take this for a fact until someone > verifies the etymology, which I don't have time to do right now, and can > given reasonable evidence behind their claim... My guess would be that last name originating from "scholar" would sound more like "shklyarov". "Sklyarov" is more likely rooted in "glass". "Sklo" is still word for "glass" in many slavic languages, and was in ancient russian, to the best of my knowledge. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtcSooACgkQtKh84cA8u2kqWACeO25lMnhk+smO4Ubk23EiuDlK SbcAniAxvs7pZK+mfbfDiymb49zDL4X2 =I3ng -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From snair at utstar.com Mon Jul 23 09:06:03 2001 From: snair at utstar.com (Sreeni R. Nair) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release In-Reply-To: References: <008601c11319$9aa80fa0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> <20010722160244.B29065@npl.uiuc.edu> <008601c11319$9aa80fa0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723120402.00abf950@mail.utstar.com> I had emailed ACM last night to request them to distance themselves from AAP's stance. I haven't got a reply till now. At 03:12 PM 7/22/2001 -0700, Derek Balling wrote: >At 6:48 PM -0700 7/22/01, Doug Lay wrote: >>I notice that the Association for Computing Machinery and the IEEE are also >>listed as AAP members. > >Just sent to , their member services e-mail address: > >To: acmhelp@acm.org >From: Derek Balling >Subject: ACM and the AAP > >I notice, with some horror, that the ACM is a member of the Association of >American Publishers, as noted at: > http://www.publishers.org/home/abouta/members.htm > >The AAP has come out in favor of Adobe's request to the FBI (and the FBI's >fulfillment of that request) to have a Russian programmer, Dmitry >Sklyarov, arrested and imprisoned for writing and selling software while >in his native Russia. That's all it is. They're confusing the issue by >bringing up the DMCA, but it doesn't apply as no act was committed on US soil. > http://www.publishers.org/home/press/index.htm > >Obviously, this is distressing, and having wide-reaching effects. Alan Cox >has resigned from Usenix's Atlanta Linux Showcase committee, fearing what >broad-reaching net the US Government will sling across foreign programmers >for what they do in their native lands. > >It distresses me that a professional organization which I pay dues to >annually in turn pays dues to an organization that is proud to imprison >foreign nationals for made-up crimes. > >Please tell me that the ACM will be withdrawing its membership from the >AAP forthwith. Given that ACM's membership in the AAP has been noticed by >the growing movement protesting Sklyarov's imprisonment, I cannot be the >only one making this request of you, so I hope that the ACM will do the >right thing here. > >Thank you for your time, > >Derek Balling > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov The ordinary man acts because he thinks his act will be profitable; the superior man, however, acts because he thinks his act is right. -- Confucius From proclus at iname.com Mon Jul 23 08:14:46 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Time of Adobe/EFF meeting? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107231514.LAA09267@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> As a strong supporter of the protests and boycott, I would like to throw my voice behind Julian's. I will add that in Will's shoes, I would have done precisely what the EFF has done. You may disagree with some of their decisions in this matter, as I do, but _think_. Everyone of us on this list could find something to disagree about, but it is what brought us together that is important. We can tolerate our differences, and we can still work together. Now, let's get back to the business of FREEING Dmitry, each of us contributing what we can in our own way. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ On 23 Jul, Julian T. J. Midgley wrote: >> On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > >> Hey Paul, >> My take on our conversation was that it consisted of >> a lot more than just "Trust me". >> >> If anyone else would like to chat, I am available, >> as many of you already know since I'm pretty sure >> I've spoken and/or emailed with dozens of you at >> this point. > > As an independent observer, with no affiliation to the EFF other than that > I have made the odd donation in the past, it seems to me that there is > altogether too much paranoia surrounding the recent discussions of their > actions. > > It does the movement no great harm for the EFF to agree to ask for the > protests to be delayed in order to be allowed to hold a meeting with > Adobe. As we have seen, they have publically requested a delay (thus > sticking to their end of the bargain), without this actually having > significant effect on the demonstrations themselves. If this is what is > necessary in order to be able to sit down at a table with Adobe then it > (the request, unheeded, for a delay) is a small price to pay for the > opportunity to engage in negotiations which may assist in freeing Dmitry. > > As regards the 'secrecy' surrounding their communications with Adobe, I > don't believe we have any reason to be afraid that the EFF have suddenly > caved in and joined with the enemy (or anything like that). We have > plenty of evidence that the EFF believe strongly in the cause they are > fighting, and they are quite clearly one of the most effective weapons in > the fight against the DMCA. Their past actions make this abundantly > clear. > > It would not be in the EFF's interests to agree to any form of gagging > order, but if Adobe were to say, at the end of the meeting, "we can at > this stage make only a statement to a certain limited effect, but after > the meeting we will hold further internal discussions with the aim of > being able to do X on such and such a date, and we would prefer it if you > didn't mention X until that date", then the EFF might reasonably, as a > matter of good faith, not mention X until the date concerned (when they > would be free to mention it regardless of whether Adobe actually got round > to doing it or not). > > Negotiations can be a delicate business, and their smooth progress is not > always best assured by immediate public disclosure of everything that has > been said. > > If you can find any evidence that the EFF has caved in to unreasonable > corporate demands in the past, or ever given up the causes they set out to > fight for, then you might have reason to doubt their motives now. > > I have every confidence that the EFF will do what is right, and look > forward to hearing the results of the meeting later today. > > Julian Midgley > -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From saint_sam at yahoo.com Mon Jul 23 09:09:30 2001 From: saint_sam at yahoo.com (Sam Gray) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: eBooks and the blind. Message-ID: <20010723160930.13650.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> > Does anyone know if text-to-speech programs will work with Adobe's > ebook reader? > You'd think with all this wizzbang technology that blind people would > finally be able to read these new ebooks. But if ebook won't let T2S > programs read the ebooks, well. > Does anyone know of any blind organisataions that might interested > in this? After all, if AEBPR does let blind people read ebooks, they > might want to voice up, so that it's not illegal for blind people to red > books. > > :P > It's an idea, anyway. Some proof either way would be nice. -- I think I read two articles on The Standard about the "this book cannot be read aloud" provisions of the license to "Alice's Adventures In Wonderland". As I understand it, Adobe allows publishers to disable eBook's internal T2S features. This was supposedly in response to publisher concerns that they had different licensing agreements to the audio reproductions of works to which they hold copyright. It all sounds far too silly to work to me, which says to the cynic in me that it must therefore be true. YMMV. ANYWAY, here's one of the articles: http://www.thestandard.com/article/0,1902,22377,00.html I'd be surprised if the eBook reader worked well, if at all, with screen readers. Of course, I'm not vision-impaired, so you might want to do a little footwork. I've worked with the Rose Resnick Lighthouse for the Blind in San Francisco (www.lighthouse-sf.org) and know of one in New York (www.lighthouse.org). In NZ, there's the Royal NZ Foundation for the Blind (www.rnzfb.org.nz). There are a number of public-domain texts available in Adobe's eBook format that don't cost anything, so a few hours' experimentation with a screen reader should yield you an answer. I'd do it myself, but I'm working on other things... ;> Hope this helps. ===== "They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's some kind of federal program." - George W. Bush, St. Charles, Mo., Nov. 2, 2000 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From admin at seattle-chat.com Mon Jul 23 09:11:03 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Article on front of techtv.com! Message-ID: Front Page of techtv.com! http://www.techtv.com/news/culture/story/0,24195,3338222,00.html From snair at utstar.com Mon Jul 23 09:17:41 2001 From: snair at utstar.com (Sreeni R. Nair) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723120402.00abf950@mail.utstar.com> References: <008601c11319$9aa80fa0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> <20010722160244.B29065@npl.uiuc.edu> <008601c11319$9aa80fa0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723121627.00ab36e8@mail.utstar.com> FWIW, I found out from the ACM web page that the US Public Policy contact is jeff_grove@acm.org. At 12:06 PM 7/23/2001 -0400, Sreeni R. Nair wrote: >I had emailed ACM last night to request them to distance themselves from >AAP's stance. I haven't got a reply till now. > >At 03:12 PM 7/22/2001 -0700, Derek Balling wrote: >>At 6:48 PM -0700 7/22/01, Doug Lay wrote: >>>I notice that the Association for Computing Machinery and the IEEE are also >>>listed as AAP members. >> >>Just sent to , their member services e-mail address: From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Jul 23 09:23:02 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723121627.00ab36e8@mail.utstar.com>; from snair@utstar.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 12:17:41PM -0400 References: <008601c11319$9aa80fa0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> <20010722160244.B29065@npl.uiuc.edu> <008601c11319$9aa80fa0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> <5.0.2.1.0.20010723120402.00abf950@mail.utstar.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010723121627.00ab36e8@mail.utstar.com> Message-ID: <20010723092302.I16178@zork.net> Sreeni R. Nair writes: > FWIW, I found out from the ACM web page that the US Public Policy contact > is jeff_grove@acm.org. I wish that people would take even half the energy they're currently putting into writing to the ACM, and dedicate it to writing to other AAP members, too. If people had done this, at least six other publishers would already have heard from critics of the AAP press release. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/publishers.html ... not that writing to ACM is _bad_. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From mkbilbo at cdcla.com Mon Jul 23 09:24:10 2001 From: mkbilbo at cdcla.com (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Stray thoughts and slogans... References: <20010720231228.WHGP18323.mta09.onebox.com@onebox.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010720170714.00a07020@localhost> Message-ID: <001d01c11393$e7f555e0$3088d790@tti.com> Just some thoughts. While the focus is the DMCA, I still think Adobe should be protested and boycotted. They wanted laws such as this and should be "punished" by the marketplace for advocating subverting copyright. Also for abusing our legal system. While the DMCA may have made this possible, it's not always right to do something just because you *can. Adobe has already signalled (in the NY Times story) that they're going to take the line of "it's out of our hands." Now that they've set all this into motion, they're going to step aside and play innocent bystander. Such behavior should not be rewarded by purchasing their products. Even corporations have responsibilities to be good citizens. Yet in the NY Times story, they pretty much *said this was the action they chose to pursue because they didn't think they could win a civil lawsuit. Certainly the FBI should have behaved more resonsiblely. I've read the entire complaint and can't find ANYTHING that says "Sklyarov was selling product X in the US." You'd think if they actually found a carton of product and orders, they'd have SAID so. Even if they did later find such, they arrested Sklyarov based on him having written a program in Russia that was being sold by a Russian company. They make much in the complaint about the Elcomsoft website. But having a website in another country that is accessible in the US means "trafficking?" Apparently US law has been extended to any nation that the Internet reaches??? The most chilling part of the complaint is that Sklyarov's speech is cited. That's disturbing. I question whether there was any actual evidence Sklyarov was actually "trafficking" anything at all on US soil. The DMCA is a bad law but what strikes me as being even worse is that the FBI doesn't even seem to be *trying* to claim Sklyarov was breaing the DMCA while he was HERE. Page after page talks about the Elcomsoft website. But even with that site being accessible here, the company is NOT here. The product was being sold through some US companies but wouldn't that make THEM liable to DMCA? How did the FBI get to charging Dmitry in the first place? And interestingly enough, it occurred to me that wouldn't this precedent mean that since Russian law requires allowing backup copies that Adobe software would be illegal under their law? I wonder if there is an Adobe office in Russia. Sounds to me like the Russians would be justified at least as much as we are for arresting Adobe programmers or executives for breaking *their laws. What a mess. In the mean time, I couldn't help but imagine a poster of: NEW! Adobe FBI (tm) or Adobe 1st Amendment VERSION 2.0 Now shipping! or New! Adobe DoJ and if I could figure out how to shorten it: New IT worker benefits: Free meals, uniforms, and barred office spaces, 5 year contracts available... Well, it's 9:20 Pacific. The East Coast folks and maybe even the Central Time folks may already be at it. Raise a ruckus! Well, in an orderly and professional manner. Free Dmitry! Mark From esper at sherohman.org Mon Jul 23 09:32:38 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress In-Reply-To: ; from FreeSklyarov@ZName.com on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 08:36:03PM -0500 References: <4.2.0.58.20010722192458.01587e50@students.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <20010723113238.B23760@sherohman.org> On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 08:36:03PM -0500, James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov) wrote: > Speaking of Congress, is there a list anywhere of Senators and > Representatives who oppose DMCA or who are "friendly" to this issue? While I don't know about the House, here's a list of senators who voted against the DMCA: (The Senate approved DMCA 99-0.) -- With the arrest of Dimitry Sklyarov it has become apparent that it is not safe for non US software engineers to visit the United States. - Alan Cox "To prevent unauthorized reading..." - Adobe eBook reader license From dredd at megacity.org Mon Jul 23 09:34:40 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release In-Reply-To: <20010723092302.I16178@zork.net> References: <008601c11319$9aa80fa0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> <20010722160244.B29065@npl.uiuc.edu> <008601c11319$9aa80fa0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> <5.0.2.1.0.20010723120402.00abf950@mail.utstar.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010723121627.00ab36e8@mail.utstar.com> <20010723092302.I16178@zork.net> Message-ID: I think there's a concentration in people writing ACM/IEEE strictly because (in theory at least) "they represent US". Lots of us (myself included) are ACM members, so having them be a member of AAP is "more damaging" (to me) than having "some other publisher" be a member of AAP. D At 9:23 AM -0700 7/23/01, Seth David Schoen wrote: >Sreeni R. Nair writes: > >> FWIW, I found out from the ACM web page that the US Public Policy contact >> is jeff_grove@acm.org. > >I wish that people would take even half the energy they're currently >putting into writing to the ACM, and dedicate it to writing to other >AAP members, too. If people had done this, at least six other >publishers would already have heard from critics of the AAP press >release. > >http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/publishers.html > >... not that writing to ACM is _bad_. > >-- >Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested >Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA >with peacefull >down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his >knowledge with > http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From snair at utstar.com Mon Jul 23 09:44:33 2001 From: snair at utstar.com (Sreeni R. Nair) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release In-Reply-To: References: <20010723092302.I16178@zork.net> <008601c11319$9aa80fa0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> <20010722160244.B29065@npl.uiuc.edu> <008601c11319$9aa80fa0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> <5.0.2.1.0.20010723120402.00abf950@mail.utstar.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010723121627.00ab36e8@mail.utstar.com> <20010723092302.I16178@zork.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723124231.00ae9d20@mail.utstar.com> Exactly! Also, none of my favorite publishers (O'Reilly, Addison-Wesley) seem to be members of AAP. In any case, after Seth's exhortation, I have sent a letter to the Harvard University Press. At 09:34 AM 7/23/2001 -0700, Derek Balling wrote: >I think there's a concentration in people writing ACM/IEEE strictly >because (in theory at least) "they represent US". Lots of us (myself >included) are ACM members, so having them be a member of AAP is "more >damaging" (to me) than having "some other publisher" be a member of AAP. > >D The ordinary man acts because he thinks his act will be profitable; the superior man, however, acts because he thinks his act is right. -- Confucius From andrea at gravitt.org Mon Jul 23 09:41:25 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release Message-ID: <016101c11396$c7d2aee0$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> >I wish that people would take even half the energy they're currently >putting into writing to the ACM, and dedicate it to writing to other >AAP members, too. Yes, that is also a good idea. Personally, I am starting with ACM because I am a member. That is a really large handle to grab them by. Perhaps it would be useful to list some of the other member organizations that folks here might be associated with. Andrea From andrea at gravitt.org Mon Jul 23 09:45:04 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Nashville Message-ID: <016c01c11396$f41b8170$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> Nashville is organizing. The contact person is JonnyX, who can be reached at johndoe900@onebox.com. Andrea From rms at privacyfoundation.org Mon Jul 23 09:45:56 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The AAP and Intellectual Freedom In-Reply-To: <001d01c11393$e7f555e0$3088d790@tti.com> Message-ID: <00fe01c11396$f2a05320$6501a8c0@tiac.net> A quote without a comment: http://www.publishers.org/home/issues/index.htm#intelfree Intellectual Freedom: American Publishers are deeply involved in the increasingly difficult fight to protect the basic right of free expression, at home and abroad. The freedom to read and the freedom to publish must be defended wherever and whenever they are challenged. Members of the AAP are actively engaged in the defense of free expression through the AAP Freedom to Read Committee and the International Freedom to Publish Committee. Richard M. Smith CTO, Privacy Foundation From neale at woozle.org Mon Jul 23 09:49:28 2001 From: neale at woozle.org (Neale Pickett) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Street Use Permit in Seattle (humorous) Message-ID: I finally got a call back from the Street Use Permit lady, she said we don't need one. Good thing she got back to me before the planned event! In another hour it would have been too late. ;-) From awh at acm.org Mon Jul 23 09:43:40 2001 From: awh at acm.org (Tony Hursh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Rally coverage on cnn.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010723114256.0156ecc0@students.uiuc.edu> http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/07/23/hacker.arrest.reut/index.html Also linked from their front page. -- Causality violation: Universe dumped. Tony Hursh Department of Computer Science, http://www.cs.uiuc.edu Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign From saint_sam at yahoo.com Mon Jul 23 09:52:14 2001 From: saint_sam at yahoo.com (Sam Gray) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Stray thoughts and slogans... Message-ID: <20010723165214.89611.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> > Adobe 1st Amendment > VERSION 2.0 > Now shipping! I love it! Which reminds me; I came up with a headline which could potentially be used on handouts: "Russian Jailed For Thought Crimes -- In The USA!" Deliberately inflammatory, but certainly fun. (= ===== "They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's some kind of federal program." - George W. Bush, St. Charles, Mo., Nov. 2, 2000 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Mon Jul 23 10:01:10 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] new scientist article References: Message-ID: <3B5C5856.8B3E24AE@sheffield.ac.uk> This article appeared 20 min ago http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991063 anton From pmasloch at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 10:09:27 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] almost good news In-Reply-To: <3B5C5856.8B3E24AE@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: Symbol Last Trade Change % Volume Time ADBE 40.630 -0.0600 -0.14% 1,581,900 12:49ET 07/23/01 Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org/ http://www.boykottadobe.org From karl.deabrew at binarything.com Mon Jul 23 10:10:10 2001 From: karl.deabrew at binarything.com (Karl De Abrew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Stray thoughts and slogans... Message-ID: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD02924F6D4@mail.roundtable.com.au> > Elcomsoft website. But having a website in another country that is > accessible in the US means "trafficking?" Apparently US law has been > extended to any nation that the Internet reaches??? I believe that the ElcomSoft Web site was originally hosted by Verio, a US-based ISP, and that the Advanced eBook Processor was sold by Register Now (http://www.regnow.com/), an online reseller located in Issaquah, Washington. See affidavit for Dmitry Sklyarov's at: http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=168 "8. Daryl Spano told me the following: a. Adobe purchased a copy of the Elcomsoft unlocking software over the Internet, and an Adobe engineer told Spano that the unlocking key worked as Elcomsoft claimed. b. Adobe purchased the program through Elcomsoft through a U.S. based company that Elcomsoft was using as a means of collection a $99 fee for purchase and usage of the unlocking key. Nathanson and Spano told me that this company was Register Now! (http://www.regnow.com) Dept # 1170-75, PO Box 1816 Issaquah, Washington 98027, 1-877-353-7297. Register Now! collected the $99 fee that pays for the unlocking key. Thereafter, Elcomsoft, after receiving verification from Register Now!, electronically sent the unlocking key registration code from Elcomsoft to the purchaser (Adobe) in San Jose, California, in the Northern District of California. Spano provided documents to me reflecting the transaction and showing that the unlocking key was purchased by Adobe on June 26, 2001. " -Karl From nick at zork.net Mon Jul 23 10:12:09 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:47 2005 Subject: [DMITRY-PLAN] correction/audio Re: [free-sklyarov] Pronunciation of Dmitry's name. In-Reply-To: ; from alexf@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 04:07:07AM -0700 References: <20010722190516.B13349@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010723101209.U13349@zork.net> Begin Alex Fabrikant quotation: > Also, note "-ff" instead of "-v" ending -- native pronounciation > would almost definitely put a voiceless sound there. To follow > Nick's example, it's just "off" as in "offer"... Whoops, yeah. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From pmasloch at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 10:16:53 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] almost good news In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Symbol Last Trade Change % Volume Time ADBE 40.630 -0.0600 -0.14% 1,581,900 12:49ET 07/23/01 ADBE 40 1/2 -0.1900 -0.46% 1,597,500 12:59ET 07/23/01 nice down trend! Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org/ http://www.boykottadobe.org From gbroiles at well.com Mon Jul 23 10:14:57 2001 From: gbroiles at well.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Please relax, and read this plea for compassi on In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010723100816.032a7d20@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 08:03 AM 7/23/2001 -0400, Chris Savage wrote: >I took a stab at describing the problem to a non-cyber-oriented person of >my acquaintance. She was outraged that Dmitry was in jail. Then she said >something like, "I wonder if this is political. I heard on NPR in the >last six months or so about a young US citizen with a technology >background arrested in Russia on trumped-up drug/alcohol charges, but told >he would be released if he revealed what his company was working on." > >I too vaguely recall such a case. But putting aside my recollections, (a) >anyone know if it's true? and (b) if it is, then this is not quite a Cold >War phenonmenon, maybe just a "Cool War" (apologies to F. Pohl) phenomenon. Perhaps you and your friend are thinking of Jack Tobin - see or or else Richard Bliss, a Qualcomm technician arrested in 1997, allegedly for espionage, while he was using GPS equipment to survey land - -- Greg Broiles gbroiles@well.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010723/60f62acd/attachment.html From sklyarov at lethe.com Mon Jul 23 10:21:34 2001 From: sklyarov at lethe.com (Kevin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release Message-ID: <010501c1139b$ecb184c0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> Apologies if this has already been posted. This makes Adobe's position painfully clear. http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/dmca.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010723/c250c4f2/attachment.htm From pmasloch at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 10:25:42 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Please relax, and read this plea for compassi on In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010723100816.032a7d20@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Doesn't make realy sence. Elcomsoft worked for the FBI and CIA in the past. I doubt it that they want to do it in the near future. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org/ http://www.boykottadobe.org -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Greg Broiles Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 1:15 PM To: Chris Savage; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Please relax, and read this plea for compassi on At 08:03 AM 7/23/2001 -0400, Chris Savage wrote: I took a stab at describing the problem to a non-cyber-oriented person of my acquaintance. She was outraged that Dmitry was in jail. Then she said something like, "I wonder if this is political. I heard on NPR in the last six months or so about a young US citizen with a technology background arrested in Russia on trumped-up drug/alcohol charges, but told he would be released if he revealed what his company was working on." I too vaguely recall such a case. But putting aside my recollections, (a) anyone know if it's true? and (b) if it is, then this is not quite a Cold War phenonmenon, maybe just a "Cool War" (apologies to F. Pohl) phenomenon. Perhaps you and your friend are thinking of Jack Tobin - see or or else Richard Bliss, a Qualcomm technician arrested in 1997, allegedly for espionage, while he was using GPS equipment to survey land - -- Greg Broiles gbroiles@well.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010723/c3213eda/attachment.html From snair at utstar.com Mon Jul 23 10:27:56 2001 From: snair at utstar.com (Sreeni R. Nair) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Press coverage Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723132728.00ab0d18@mail.utstar.com> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nf/20010723/tc/12192_1.html The ordinary man acts because he thinks his act will be profitable; the superior man, however, acts because he thinks his act is right. -- Confucius From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 23 10:29:16 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release In-Reply-To: <010501c1139b$ecb184c0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7>; from sklyarov@lethe.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 10:21:34AM -0700 References: <010501c1139b$ecb184c0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> Message-ID: <20010723102916.P94288@networkcommand.com> There is a "Rate this page" function on the site... On 23-Jul-2001, Kevin wrote: > Apologies if this has already been posted. This makes Adobe's position painfully clear. > > http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/dmca.html From pmasloch at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 10:34:35 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release In-Reply-To: <20010723102916.P94288@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: ......you mean we should click on this "double-minus" sign? Peter There is a "Rate this page" function on the site... On 23-Jul-2001, Kevin wrote: > Apologies if this has already been posted. This makes Adobe's position painfully clear. > > http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/dmca.html _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jparks at media.mit.edu Mon Jul 23 10:35:39 2001 From: jparks at media.mit.edu (Jeff Parks) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boston protest a success! Message-ID: Hi all, just came from the Boston demonstration - we had a good-sized crowd, I'm guessing about 50 people, mostly dressed in black for the theme "Funeral for Fair Use Rights" - A black coffin labeled "FAIR USE" was displayed. Rousing speeches were given by the two main organizers and several inspired participants! Press was in attendance and was interviewing several participants when the protest ended. This was a very effective demonstration, with high visibility for the corporate-lunch crowd - Congrats & thanks to the organizers and participants! Jeff Parks MIT Media Lab jparks@media.mit.edu From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 23 10:34:32 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release In-Reply-To: ; from pmasloch@earthlink.net on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 01:34:35PM -0400 References: <20010723102916.P94288@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010723103432.Q94288@networkcommand.com> BINGO! On 23-Jul-2001, Peter wrote: > ......you mean we should click on this "double-minus" sign? > Peter > > > > There is a "Rate this page" function on the site... > > > On 23-Jul-2001, Kevin wrote: > > Apologies if this has already been posted. This makes Adobe's > position painfully clear. > > > > > http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/dmca.html > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 23 10:46:19 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Press coverage In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723132728.00ab0d18@mail.utstar.com>; from snair@utstar.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 01:27:56PM -0400 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723132728.00ab0d18@mail.utstar.com> Message-ID: <20010723104618.R94288@networkcommand.com> Discuss: http://news.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=NEWS&action=l&ft=1&board=37172369&sid=37172369&title=Russian%20Hacker%20Arrested%20in%20Las%20Vegas&tid=nmtechhackerarrestdc&date=07-17-2001&url=dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010717/wr/tech_hacker_arrest_dc_1.html On 23-Jul-2001, Sreeni R. Nair wrote: > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nf/20010723/tc/12192_1.html > > > > The ordinary man acts because he thinks his act will be profitable; the > superior man, however, acts because he thinks his act is right. > -- Confucius > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jim.thompson at pobox.com Mon Jul 23 09:52:26 2001 From: jim.thompson at pobox.com (Jim Thompson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boston protest a success! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15196.21901.652306.31937@belboz> Jeff, Thanks much for the report. I want to encourage others to post reports here - and if anyone puts photos online, please post a URL! (Not just the Boston protest, but all of them.) Or if there's an effort underway to have consolidated coverage at some site, please post that URL too. Jim -- jim.thompson@pobox.com http://jimthompson.org From xyz at kalifornia.com Mon Jul 23 10:57:04 2001 From: xyz at kalifornia.com (xyz@kalifornia.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] More Media In-Reply-To: <15196.21901.652306.31937@belboz> Message-ID: I don't think this one made it in yet. http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991063 From nick at zork.net Mon Jul 23 10:57:28 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boston protest a success! In-Reply-To: ; from jparks@media.mit.edu on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 01:35:39PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010723105728.X13349@zork.net> Begin Jeff Parks quotation: > Hi all, just came from the Boston demonstration - we had a > good-sized crowd, I'm guessing about 50 people, mostly dressed in > black for the theme "Funeral for Fair Use Rights" - A black coffin > labeled "FAIR USE" was displayed. Very nice. This was a nice theme idea. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From snair at utstar.com Mon Jul 23 11:07:33 2001 From: snair at utstar.com (Sreeni R. Nair) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Press Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723140713.00ad6598@mail.utstar.com> http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/opinions/3642/1/ The ordinary man acts because he thinks his act will be profitable; the superior man, however, acts because he thinks his act is right. -- Confucius From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 23 11:18:29 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Press In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723140713.00ad6598@mail.utstar.com>; from snair@utstar.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 02:07:33PM -0400 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723140713.00ad6598@mail.utstar.com> Message-ID: <20010723111829.T94288@networkcommand.com> Found on the Yahoo ADBE News Releases... TheStandard.com There's a New Cyber-Sherriff in Town http://biz.yahoo.com/st/010720/28141.html Is Adobe a software thug? http://www.upside.com/On_Trial/3b589a9d1_yahoo.html On 23-Jul-2001, Sreeni R. Nair wrote: > http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/opinions/3642/1/ > > > > The ordinary man acts because he thinks his act will be profitable; the > superior man, however, acts because he thinks his act is right. > -- Confucius > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From nick at zork.net Mon Jul 23 11:30:02 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] San Jose protest update Message-ID: <20010723113002.Z13349@zork.net> I can't make the protests in the Bay Area, but I just called Don Marti's cell phone and got an update. He said there are about 100 people or so already. They've got posters, t-shirts, and Russian and American flags! Apparently someone has just brought batteries for a megaphone, so I assume that the amplification permit went through. Don said they're about to move out in a few minutes and start chanting. I'm sorry I can't be there! -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From misha2 at urbis.net.il Mon Jul 23 12:32:44 2001 From: misha2 at urbis.net.il (Michael Kupershtein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: [nylug-talk] pleeease arrange amondayprotest. References: <000c01c1131d$26e97d20$5a05b3d8@realmeasures> <3.0.6.32.20010723082526.00989670@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: <3B5C7BDC.24688831@urbis.net.il> David Honig wrote: > At 11:34 AM 7/23/01 +0200, Michael Kupershtein wrote: > > > >In accordance with the third paragraph of article 10 of the present Law, > >a person who legally owns > >a copy of a computer program or a database, has the right, without the > >consent of the copyright owner > >and without payment of an extra fee, to carry out the following actions: > > > >1. To carry out adaptation of the computer program or a database; > > > >2. To make a copy of the computer program or a database provided that > >this copy of the program is > >intended only for the archival purposes or (if the original computer > >program or database > >is lost, destroyed or became unsuitable for use) for replacement of > >legally acquired copy. > >However the copy of the computer program or a database can not be used > >for other purposes and > >should be destroyed in case further use of this computer program or a > >database ceases to be lawful. > > > >You can find the original at > >http://www.compulenta.ru/addon/2001/7/20/16116/ > >As you can see, it is plainly said that archival copies may be made > >without the copyright > >owner's consent. > > This is US law too. > Yes, but there's a difference. The difference is that any interpretation of the corresponding US law would also have to be subject to other laws, > > Therefore any software/database distributor that does > >not provide such a > >possibility would be in violation of the law, since he'd infringe on the > >RIGHT to make > >archival copies. > > You don't infringe others freedoms (to make backups) by making it > hard to try. As a general statement, that's plainly false. In some contexts, you'd be right. In others, you wouldn't be. An intentional attempt to prevent someone from exercising their rights IS an infringement. > >It could be said, then, that the existence of > >Elcomsoft's software is the > >only thing that keeps eBook Reader legal in Russia. > >Ironic, isn't it? > > That interpretation doesn't follow. > IANAL. However, to the best of my understanding, the analysis that leads to the above interpretation is as follows: Since users have the right to make backups, it would be illegal for the copyright owners to make an attempt to prevent copying. Any given book can be taken, in relation to this law, as a `database`. eBook Reader's copy protection scheme intentionally prevents archival of that database. As far as I understand, within the Russian legal framework (again, IANAL), in this case, the users' rights imply obligations on Adobe's part. As an aside, I must mention I believe this point of view is somewhat extreme. However, that's the way things are at the moment, and, as already pointed out by Mike Genin, if a class action suit was brought against Adobe in Russia (remember, IANAL!), it'd probably use the existence of ABEPR (or the fact the encryption method is "weak enough") as its main defense argument. Michael From tom at lemuria.org Mon Jul 23 11:33:42 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release In-Reply-To: <010501c1139b$ecb184c0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7>; from sklyarov@lethe.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 10:21:34AM -0700 References: <010501c1139b$ecb184c0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> Message-ID: <20010723203339.A11761@lemuria.org> On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 10:21:34AM -0700, Kevin wrote: > Apologies if this has already been posted. This makes Adobe's position painfully clear. > > http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/dmca.html typo or pulled? I get a 404 on that page. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From rms at privacyfoundation.org Mon Jul 23 11:37:35 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Can't download Adobe eBook Reader In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723140713.00ad6598@mail.utstar.com> Message-ID: <017401c113a6$8ce066a0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Hi, I'm not sure what to make of this, but I still can't download the Adobe eBook Reader from the Barnes & Noble Web site for the third straight day. I keep getting an HTTP 404 (Page not found) error for the final download page. I've asked B&N if they've pulled the Adobe eBook Reader again because of concerns of poor security, but they haven't answered so far. Richard From nick at zork.net Mon Jul 23 11:44:43 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] UseNix to include Felten et al research Message-ID: <20010723114443.E13349@zork.net> ash seems to have some trouble with the routing of mail at toocan.com (my mail to him asking for more info bounced). Here is a message that he sent elsewhere. ----- Forwarded message from ash ----- for some reason i cannot route this am - hmmmm? Thursday July 19, 02:58 PM EDT [ Press Releases ] Monica Ortiz tells us about this press release: The USENIX Association today confirmed the inclusion of a controversial research paper to its Security Symposium to be held in Washington, DC next month. The paper reveals inherent security risks with the recording industry's digital music access-control technologies. Dr. Edward Felten, the Princeton University scientist who was a key member of the research team, will also participate in a panel discussion about the paper's recent legal wrangles. ... more http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/07/19/1854215&mode=thread -- ashten remwa****************ash@toocan.com |.|.....(_)..|.\..|.|..|.|..|.|..\.\..././ |.|.....|.|..|..\.|.|..|.|..|.|...\.\././ |.|.....|.|..|...\|.|..|.|..|.|..../._.\ |.|___..|.|..|.|\...|..|.|__|.|..././.\.\ |_____).|_| .|_|.\__|..|______|../_/...\_\ http://www.toocan.com/~ash ----- End forwarded message ----- -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From snair at utstar.com Mon Jul 23 11:47:35 2001 From: snair at utstar.com (Sreeni R. Nair) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release In-Reply-To: <20010723203339.A11761@lemuria.org> References: <010501c1139b$ecb184c0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> <010501c1139b$ecb184c0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723144628.00ae95e0@mail.utstar.com> 404 for me too. Could mean something happened in the EFF-Adobe meeting? At 08:33 PM 7/23/2001 +0200, Tom wrote: >On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 10:21:34AM -0700, Kevin wrote: > > Apologies if this has already been posted. This makes Adobe's position > painfully clear. > > > > http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/dmca.html > >typo or pulled? I get a 404 on that page. > > >-- >-- http://web.lemuria.org >-- > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov The ordinary man acts because he thinks his act will be profitable; the superior man, however, acts because he thinks his act is right. -- Confucius From esper at sherohman.org Mon Jul 23 11:44:29 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release In-Reply-To: <20010723203339.A11761@lemuria.org>; from tom@lemuria.org on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 08:33:42PM +0200 References: <010501c1139b$ecb184c0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> <20010723203339.A11761@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20010723134429.D23760@sherohman.org> On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 08:33:42PM +0200, Tom wrote: > On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 10:21:34AM -0700, Kevin wrote: > > Apologies if this has already been posted. This makes Adobe's position painfully clear. > > > > http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/dmca.html > > typo or pulled? I get a 404 on that page. Interesting... When I went there earlier, the promised 'rate this page' section was gone. Now the whole page has gone missing. I wonder why that might be? -- With the arrest of Dimitry Sklyarov it has become apparent that it is not safe for non US software engineers to visit the United States. - Alan Cox "To prevent unauthorized reading..." - Adobe eBook reader license From tom at lemuria.org Mon Jul 23 11:41:31 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Press In-Reply-To: <20010723111829.T94288@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:18:29AM -0700 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723140713.00ad6598@mail.utstar.com> <20010723111829.T94288@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010723204128.B11761@lemuria.org> On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:18:29AM -0700, Jon O . wrote: > Is Adobe a software thug? > http://www.upside.com/On_Trial/3b589a9d1_yahoo.html 80% guilty on both counts. has anyone besides the members of this list and some adobe execs been voting? :) -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From pmasloch at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 11:47:29 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release In-Reply-To: <20010723203339.A11761@lemuria.org> Message-ID: This is a good one. Adobe pulled the webpage. This morning i was on this webpage without any problem. Peter On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 10:21:34AM -0700, Kevin wrote: > Apologies if this has already been posted. This makes Adobe's position painfully clear. > > http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/dmca.html typo or pulled? I get a 404 on that page. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 23 11:48:40 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723144628.00ae95e0@mail.utstar.com>; from snair@utstar.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 02:47:35PM -0400 References: <010501c1139b$ecb184c0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> <010501c1139b$ecb184c0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> <20010723203339.A11761@lemuria.org> <5.0.2.1.0.20010723144628.00ae95e0@mail.utstar.com> Message-ID: <20010723114840.X94288@networkcommand.com> Dude, it's gone! Now is that good news or bad? Time's about up with the EFF. Good luck EFF! On 23-Jul-2001, Sreeni R. Nair wrote: > 404 for me too. Could mean something happened in the EFF-Adobe meeting? > > At 08:33 PM 7/23/2001 +0200, Tom wrote: > >On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 10:21:34AM -0700, Kevin wrote: > > > Apologies if this has already been posted. This makes Adobe's position > > painfully clear. > > > > > > http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/dmca.html > > > >typo or pulled? I get a 404 on that page. > > > > > >-- > >-- http://web.lemuria.org > >-- > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > The ordinary man acts because he thinks his act will be profitable; the > superior man, however, acts because he thinks his act is right. > -- Confucius > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From tom at lemuria.org Mon Jul 23 11:43:51 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release In-Reply-To: ; from pmasloch@earthlink.net on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 02:47:29PM -0400 References: <20010723203339.A11761@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20010723204347.C11761@lemuria.org> On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 02:47:29PM -0400, Peter wrote: > This is a good one. Adobe pulled the webpage. This morning i was on this > webpage without any problem. shows that either EFF is getting somewhere or they feel the pressure. does anyone have the page archived and can post the content here? -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From snair at utstar.com Mon Jul 23 11:52:59 2001 From: snair at utstar.com (Sreeni R. Nair) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release In-Reply-To: <20010723134429.D23760@sherohman.org> References: <20010723203339.A11761@lemuria.org> <010501c1139b$ecb184c0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> <20010723203339.A11761@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723145118.00aeb0e8@mail.utstar.com> That page was initially accessible from their main "Press Room" page. Now that link is no more ... At 01:44 PM 7/23/2001 -0500, Dave Sherohman wrote: >On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 08:33:42PM +0200, Tom wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 10:21:34AM -0700, Kevin wrote: > > > Apologies if this has already been posted. This makes Adobe's > position painfully clear. > > > > > > http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/dmca.html > > > > typo or pulled? I get a 404 on that page. > >Interesting... When I went there earlier, the promised 'rate this >page' section was gone. Now the whole page has gone missing. I >wonder why that might be? > >-- >With the arrest of Dimitry Sklyarov it has become apparent that it is not >safe for non US software engineers to visit the United States. - Alan Cox >"To prevent unauthorized reading..." - Adobe eBook reader license > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov The ordinary man acts because he thinks his act will be profitable; the superior man, however, acts because he thinks his act is right. -- Confucius From nick at zork.net Mon Jul 23 11:51:33 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release In-Reply-To: <20010723114840.X94288@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:48:40AM -0700 References: <010501c1139b$ecb184c0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> <010501c1139b$ecb184c0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> <20010723203339.A11761@lemuria.org> <5.0.2.1.0.20010723144628.00ae95e0@mail.utstar.com> <20010723114840.X94288@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010723115133.F13349@zork.net> Begin Jon O . quotation: > Dude, it's gone! Does anyone have a copy from a Web cache? -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From pmasloch at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 11:52:05 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release In-Reply-To: <20010723204347.C11761@lemuria.org> Message-ID: let me look in my hisrory.... Peter On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 02:47:29PM -0400, Peter wrote: > This is a good one. Adobe pulled the webpage. This morning i was on this > webpage without any problem. shows that either EFF is getting somewhere or they feel the pressure. does anyone have the page archived and can post the content here? -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From dlc at halibut.com Mon Jul 23 11:51:59 2001 From: dlc at halibut.com (David Carmean) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release In-Reply-To: ; from pmasloch@earthlink.net on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 02:47:29PM -0400 References: <20010723203339.A11761@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20010723115159.S25362@halibut.com> Heh...well, I saved a copy of the text, anyway. There were clearly some editorial errors in that version. Like a sentence describing the EFF in the wrong paragraph. We'll see they're just correcting that.... On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 02:47:29PM -0400, Peter wrote: > This is a good one. Adobe pulled the webpage. This morning i was on this > webpage without any problem. > Peter > > > On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 10:21:34AM -0700, Kevin wrote: > > Apologies if this has already been posted. This makes Adobe's > position painfully clear. > > > > > http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/dmca.html > > typo or pulled? I get a 404 on that page. From snair at utstar.com Mon Jul 23 11:54:42 2001 From: snair at utstar.com (Sreeni R. Nair) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release In-Reply-To: <20010723114840.X94288@networkcommand.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723144628.00ae95e0@mail.utstar.com> <010501c1139b$ecb184c0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> <010501c1139b$ecb184c0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> <20010723203339.A11761@lemuria.org> <5.0.2.1.0.20010723144628.00ae95e0@mail.utstar.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723145332.00aea928@mail.utstar.com> I hope the FBI has not arrested the EFF team for "talking about circumventing a copy protection device." ;-) At 11:48 AM 7/23/2001 -0700, Jon O . wrote: >Dude, it's gone! > >Now is that good news or bad? > >Time's about up with the EFF. Good luck EFF! > > > > >On 23-Jul-2001, Sreeni R. Nair wrote: > > 404 for me too. Could mean something happened in the EFF-Adobe meeting? > > > > At 08:33 PM 7/23/2001 +0200, Tom wrote: > > >On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 10:21:34AM -0700, Kevin wrote: > > > > Apologies if this has already been posted. This makes Adobe's > position > > > painfully clear. > > > > > > > > > http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/dmca.html > > > > > >typo or pulled? I get a 404 on that page. > > > > > > > > >-- > > >-- http://web.lemuria.org > > >-- > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >free-sklyarov mailing list > > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > > >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > The ordinary man acts because he thinks his act will be profitable; the > > superior man, however, acts because he thinks his act is right. > > -- Confucius > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov The ordinary man acts because he thinks his act will be profitable; the superior man, however, acts because he thinks his act is right. -- Confucius From misha2 at urbis.net.il Mon Jul 23 12:50:20 2001 From: misha2 at urbis.net.il (Michael Kupershtein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release References: <010501c1139b$ecb184c0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> Message-ID: <3B5C7FFB.71008F4A@urbis.net.il> Kevin wrote: > Apologies if this has already been posted. This makes Adobe's > position painfully > clear. http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/dmca.html Interestingly enough, it 404s now. Coincidence? :) Michael From jeyk at home.com Mon Jul 23 11:52:10 2001 From: jeyk at home.com (Jey Kottalam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Meeting should be over soon Message-ID: <001601c113a8$94ca3d80$862ef90a@private> Will said he hoped the meeting would be over by noon, pacific time.... and it's 11:50AM here. Let's hope that we get a status report... -Jey Kottalam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010723/e0d693bf/attachment.htm From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Mon Jul 23 11:57:12 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release In-Reply-To: <20010723203339.A11761@lemuria.org> Message-ID: > http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/dmca.html seems pulled did anyone save a copy? James S. Huggins From nick at zork.net Mon Jul 23 11:57:42 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NY Times Article In-Reply-To: <01072307352103.15652@bilbo.blorch.org>; from mark@blorch.org on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 07:35:21AM -0700 References: <01072307352103.15652@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <20010723115742.G13349@zork.net> Begin Mark K. Bilbo quotation: > The point of meeting with the EFF is apparently just to shut us all > up. Regardless, meeting with the EFF did not shut us up. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From jim at media.mit.edu Mon Jul 23 11:58:50 2001 From: jim at media.mit.edu (Jim Youll) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: free-sklyarov digest, Vol 1 #97 - 19 msgs Message-ID: <200107231857.OAA18063@dns1.newmediagroup.com> I suggest that all city organizers put up their own pages that they can control and edit as they need to, put photos and other info there (including how people can contact you to get involved) ... and the sites out here (freesklyarov, boycottadobe) can just point to your top page leaving the rest under local control and distributing the server load too -- http://www.media.mit.edu/~jim research assistant . software agents group . e-markets sig mit media lab . cambridge, ma Free Dmitry Sklyarov ... Boycott Adobe Systems ... http://freesklyarov.org/ From brenno at dewinter.com Mon Jul 23 13:03:58 2001 From: brenno at dewinter.com (Brenno J.S.A.A.F. de Winter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release References: <010501c1139b$ecb184c0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> <010501c1139b$ecb184c0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> <20010723203339.A11761@lemuria.org> <5.0.2.1.0.20010723144628.00ae95e0@mail.utstar.com> <20010723114840.X94288@networkcommand.com> <20010723115133.F13349@zork.net> Message-ID: <3B5C832E.93996FD0@dewinter.com> Nick Moffitt wrote: > Begin Jon O . quotation: > > Dude, it's gone! > > Does anyone have a copy from a Web cache? > > -- > "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very > slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda > 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! > ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010723/686dca97/dmca.html From david at lupercalia.net Mon Jul 23 11:28:12 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] crackers Message-ID: <20010723142812.B1075@lupercalia.net> Hey folks, I got home from the Free Dmitry rally to see what was up with my box, and it was cracked around 4:00 last night. I didn't even notice this morning. So far I haven't seen any damage to the system but am backing up my latest data and will be reinstalling (and switching to Debian which was planned anyway) as soon as I can. Apparently less than a week of active involvement in the Anti-DMCA movement was enough to draw a cracker to my box. Unless of course you believe in such coincidences. I do not. So, please be aware that all services on my box will be only intermittently available. That includes the Free Dmitry DC mailing list, the LDP Review mailing list, the LDP Database, and the DocBook by Email Processor. I'm sorry for the inconvenience. Regards, -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ Bill Gates says banks are dinosaurs, well, some dinosaurs run real fast and bite the hell out of you. --Unknown From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Mon Jul 23 12:02:48 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Saint Paul, MN Rally SUCCESS Message-ID: Here are pics from the rally. http://www.underwhelm.org/freedima This will be updated to reflect protesters' impressions of the event as the day progresses. WTG everyone, thanks for coming. We did good work. From sethf at sethf.com Mon Jul 23 12:18:59 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boston protest a success! References: <15196.21901.652306.31937@belboz> Message-ID: <3B5C78A3.F431C0F9@sethf.com> I was there today. There was nice turnout, and I think some bystanders became educated on the issue. Non-programmers have definitely been hearing about the topic from the national media. Note: Why It's Important To Show Up - There was a reporter from the _Boston Globe_ at the protest. If no-one had been there, or almost no-one, he might have concluded there was no story here. As it was, several people talked to him and there might be story in that newspaper. Sign Of Effectiveness: Just before the protest, I went to a studio to appear on TechTV discussing my own programming work and how it related to the DMCA (see URL below). Even the cab driver had heard of Dimitry story, via the NPR coverage. -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 23 12:22:44 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] crackers In-Reply-To: <20010723142812.B1075@lupercalia.net>; from david@lupercalia.net on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 02:28:12PM -0400 References: <20010723142812.B1075@lupercalia.net> Message-ID: <20010723122244.D98211@networkcommand.com> Wow. Bad news... I'm a Network Security Engineer and can provide assistance to anyone who has questions, etc. If you want an SSL cert for your site let me know. If you just have securit questions I can handle that too. Here is an acticle I wrote recently: SecurityPortal - Integration of Checkpoint VPN-1/FW-1 with FreeBSD's IPSEC http://securityportal.com/articles/cpbsd20010525.html Check: http://www.networkcommand.com http://www.securityreports.com On 23-Jul-2001, David Merrill wrote: > Hey folks, > > I got home from the Free Dmitry rally to see what was up with my box, > and it was cracked around 4:00 last night. I didn't even notice this > morning. So far I haven't seen any damage to the system but am backing > up my latest data and will be reinstalling (and switching to Debian > which was planned anyway) as soon as I can. > > Apparently less than a week of active involvement in the Anti-DMCA > movement was enough to draw a cracker to my box. Unless of course you > believe in such coincidences. I do not. > > So, please be aware that all services on my box will be only > intermittently available. That includes the Free Dmitry DC mailing > list, the LDP Review mailing list, the LDP Database, and the DocBook > by Email Processor. > > I'm sorry for the inconvenience. > > Regards, > > -- > Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net > Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net > Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org > > Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com > Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ > > Bill Gates says banks are dinosaurs, well, some dinosaurs run real fast and > bite the hell out of you. > --Unknown > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 23 12:26:39 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boston protest a success! In-Reply-To: <3B5C78A3.F431C0F9@sethf.com>; from sethf@sethf.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 03:18:59PM -0400 References: <15196.21901.652306.31937@belboz> <3B5C78A3.F431C0F9@sethf.com> Message-ID: <20010723122639.E98211@networkcommand.com> Hey, good report and good work. What channel is TechTV on so I can watch? Also, I've updated the site quite a bit, let me know what you think. www.anti-dmca.org On 23-Jul-2001, Seth Finkelstein wrote: > I was there today. There was nice turnout, and I think some > bystanders became educated on the issue. Non-programmers have > definitely been hearing about the topic from the national media. > > Note: Why It's Important To Show Up - There was a reporter > from the _Boston Globe_ at the protest. If no-one had been there, > or almost no-one, he might have concluded there was no story here. > As it was, several people talked to him and there might be story > in that newspaper. > > Sign Of Effectiveness: Just before the protest, I went to > a studio to appear on TechTV discussing my own programming work > and how it related to the DMCA (see URL below). Even the cab driver > had heard of Dimitry story, via the NPR coverage. > > -- > Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com > http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From kupek at ntplx.net Mon Jul 23 12:30:08 2001 From: kupek at ntplx.net (Chad Horton) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Jack Tobin Message-ID: <002c01c113ad$e284d2b0$0101a8c0@gungnir> I live near to where Jack Tobin is from, he's been pretty big in the local news recently. The last news I had heard is that his sentence was shortened to 13 months, which is 6 months from about now. I honestly can't see the government risking such a huge public outcry over getting one man home a few months earlier, after he has already spend 6 months in jail in Russia. If anyone's interested, I can see what I can do about researching this a bit more. ---- Chad "kupek" Horton | kupek@ntplx -dot- net ICQ:1994680 | AIM:KupekCH ~Mirai no Jibun e to, Give a Reason For Life todoketai!~ From jstyre at jstyre.com Mon Jul 23 12:33:00 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] UseNix to include Felten et al research In-Reply-To: <20010723114443.E13349@zork.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010723120910.06311ef8@earthlink.net> At 11:44 AM 7/23/2001 -0700, Nick Moffitt wrote: >Thursday July 19, 02:58 PM EDT [ Press Releases ] >Monica Ortiz tells us about this press release: The USENIX Association >today confirmed the inclusion of a controversial research paper to its >Security Symposium to be held in Washington, DC next month. The paper >reveals inherent security risks with the recording industry's digital >music access-control technologies. Dr. Edward Felten, the Princeton >University scientist who was a key member of the research team, will also >participate in a panel discussion about the paper's recent legal >wrangles. > >... more > >http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/07/19/1854215&mode=thread Yes, the presentation of "Reading Between the Lines ..." will be Wednesday, 7/15, 6:00 p.m., immediately followed by what should be an interesting panel discussion on DMCA/SDMI, http://www.usenix.org/events/sec01/tech.html#sdmi. Ed Felten will be a panelist, but my understanding is that he will *not* be the one presenting the paper itself, that honor falling to someone (surely not me) who is a regular contributor to this list, who heretofore has chosen not to mention that he is one of the SDMI researchers/paper authors. -J, just a lawyer for the _Felten_ Plaintiffs. -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From tom at lemuria.org Mon Jul 23 12:29:39 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release Message-ID: <20010723212937.B11869@lemuria.org> I was now sent a copy of the press release. it contains a lot of the "it's all for our customers" bullshit, and a few things I want to comment on: > Adobe encourages its customers and the software community, including > White Hat security experts, to provide feedback on the performance of > its software in order to make improvements. Adobe's concern is that a > "digital lock pick" is being distributed to enable others to > compromise the copyrighted works of authors, artists, developers and > publishers, which is why Adobe alerted the U.S. Attorney's office. if you pick an analogy, adobe, you must be aware of it's shortcomings. AFAIK, lock picks are not and have never been illegal in the US. > Q: Who says that the United States gets to impose its laws > (specifically, the Digital Millenium Copyright Act) on individuals and > businesses in other countries? > A: Questions regarding the law and its enforcement in this case should > be forwarded to the U.S. Attorney's office. > > Q: What will happen next? > A: Any questions regarding this investigation should be forwarded to > the U.S. Attorney's office. I guess that means we can forget about the EFF meeting. adobe has officially removed itself from the equation. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From ml at gondwanaland.com Mon Jul 23 12:36:48 2001 From: ml at gondwanaland.com (Mike Linksvayer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] San Francisco didn't happen? In-Reply-To: ; from moseng2@underwhelm.org on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 02:02:48PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010723153648.A7789@or.pair.com> I just noticed last night that a San Francisco rally had been added. I went to the ferry building, didn't see anyone distinguishable from the tourists confused about which way they need to ride the F market to get to Fisherman's Warf or whether it's worth taking a picture in front of the ferry building with a plywood wall around it. Assuming nothing happened, apologies to anyone who went and also didn't see anything happening to due me (I posted a notice a couple places last night as soon as I saw that would be a SF rally). I guess anyone really interested went to San Jose. Oh well, Free Sklyarov anyway! -- Mike Linksvayer http://gondwanaland.com/ml/ From nick at zork.net Mon Jul 23 12:36:59 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] San Jose protest update In-Reply-To: <20010723113002.Z13349@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:30:02AM -0700 References: <20010723113002.Z13349@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010723123659.H13349@zork.net> Begin Nick Moffitt quotation: > I can't make the protests in the Bay Area, but I just called Don > Marti's cell phone and got an update. I just called again, and the San Jose rally is very energetic! I had to ask Don to repeat himself a few times. They were chanting "Adobe's memo is a lie!", referring I believe to the release that Adobe recently removed from their Web site. Don put me on hold and called for a unified cheer, and even over his tinny cellular phone it was quite impressive. Still no word from the EFF. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu Mon Jul 23 12:38:28 2001 From: cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] free dmitry song. Message-ID: thanks again to Stephen Savitzky, who wrote the 'dmitry and dmca' song. we sang it loudly and repeatedly in boston (w/ guitar) and it was a great hit! --s (boston organizer) UKUSA counter-intelligence Milosevic assassinate Hager atomic EZLN milita Leitrim Bush early warning FBI assassination politics [Hello to all my fans in domestic surveillance] ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian ) -- "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970, minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4. -- [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/] #!/usr/bin/perl -w # 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz # MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout # arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order $_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5; $_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d= unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d >>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9 ,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t ^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271)) [$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval From lgorkin1 at nyc.rr.com Mon Jul 23 12:36:28 2001 From: lgorkin1 at nyc.rr.com (Leonid Gorkin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New York rally a success!! Message-ID: <01072315362803.17977@lorien> We had about 30 people in front of New York Public Library. Rally continued for about 2 1/2 hours. We had several signs, and distributed about 2000 flyers. Some people stopped to discuss the issue with us. New York Times reporters were there and talked with several protesters. Unfortunatelly, we were completely ignored by all TV media. I guess they had more interesting things to report. You can see the pictures from the protest, fresh and completely unedited, at: http://umklaydet.com/nyc Thanks to everybody who came to the rally and all people who supported us! This is just a first step! -- Leonid From pmasloch at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 12:50:18 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release In-Reply-To: <20010723212937.B11869@lemuria.org> Message-ID: There is a small chance that they (Adobe) pulled the webpage of request from the EFF. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org/ http://www.boykottadobe.org I was now sent a copy of the press release. it contains a lot of the "it's all for our customers" bullshit, and a few things I want to comment on: > Adobe encourages its customers and the software community, including > White Hat security experts, to provide feedback on the performance of > its software in order to make improvements. Adobe's concern is that a > "digital lock pick" is being distributed to enable others to > compromise the copyrighted works of authors, artists, developers and > publishers, which is why Adobe alerted the U.S. Attorney's office. if you pick an analogy, adobe, you must be aware of it's shortcomings. AFAIK, lock picks are not and have never been illegal in the US. > Q: Who says that the United States gets to impose its laws > (specifically, the Digital Millenium Copyright Act) on individuals and > businesses in other countries? > A: Questions regarding the law and its enforcement in this case should > be forwarded to the U.S. Attorney's office. > > Q: What will happen next? > A: Any questions regarding this investigation should be forwarded to > the U.S. Attorney's office. I guess that means we can forget about the EFF meeting. adobe has officially removed itself from the equation. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jcrawford at avencom.com Mon Jul 23 12:50:12 2001 From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] San Diego information? Message-ID: <3B5C7FF4.CC31D00A@avencom.com> I passed one some Dmitry news to my websandiego.org list - and this came back in reply -- can anyone help with this? -------------------------------------------------------------- > NOTE: That San Diego is one of the locations for a gathering > tonight. > http://www.boycottadobe.com/pages/rallies.html#SanDiego Anyone know for sure that this is tonight (Mon. 7/23)? The boycottadobe site above indicates that it's on "Sunday" without any further date specifics. The EFF rideshare board, though, indicates it's today. http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010723_sandiego_rideshare.html Any more information out there? -------------------------------------------------------------- Can anyone help with San Diego event information? Thanks! - Joe Crawford My opinions are my own. From travel at elcomsoft.com Mon Jul 23 12:19:43 2001 From: travel at elcomsoft.com (Vladimir Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1949208370.20010723231943@elcomsoft.com> Hello James, >> http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/dmca.html JSHFS> seems pulled JSHFS> did anyone save a copy? Sure we did ;) -- Best regards, Vladimir mailto:travel@elcomsoft.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: adobe-pr.zip Type: application/x-zip-compressed Size: 17374 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010723/17722a7a/adobe-pr.bin From kastlyn at lowerlights.com Mon Jul 23 13:56:41 2001 From: kastlyn at lowerlights.com (kastlyn@lowerlights.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] SLC update Message-ID: <0107231356.0JL8I00@lowerlights.com> We finished up with the SLC protest a little while ago. Weren't too many people, but we had some great signs, and answered questions from three different news organizations. We gave out a lot of stickers and fliers, and, one thing that worked best for us were fliers wrapped around water bottles. That worked really well, because it was a hot day, with a lot of really thirsty people. =} I'll send the url with the news/pictures when I get it. =} Overall, it wasn't a very loud event, but we gave away 150 water bottles, and did a lot to raise the general public awareness. We'll be doing much of the same tomorrow during the Utah 24th of July parades. =} -=Amie Christensen=- From pmasloch at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 12:56:59 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW: RUNET.COM Warning Message-ID: looks like somebody here on the list has an problem with his e-mail adress Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org/ http://www.boykottadobe.org -----Original Message----- From: MAIL_DAEMON@runet.com [mailto:MAIL_DAEMON@runet.com] Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 3:44 PM To: pmasloch@earthlink.net Subject: RUNET.COM Warning The mail message you have sent to eden could not be delivered for the following reason: specified user does not exist From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 23 12:58:58 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] New York rally a success!! In-Reply-To: <01072315362803.17977@lorien>; from lgorkin1@nyc.rr.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 03:36:28PM -0400 References: <01072315362803.17977@lorien> Message-ID: <20010723125857.G98211@networkcommand.com> Just wanted to inform you guys about TV Eyes. Free service that allows you to put in key words and when they occur on TV you get emailed with a summary. Suggested keywords: sklyarov dmca more? http://www.tveyes.com/index.asp From rms at privacyfoundation.org Mon Jul 23 12:59:21 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01bd01c113b1$f99adea0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> My guess is that not everyone (eg. legal) at Adobe signed off on the release. If the release reappears on the Adobe site, it will be interesting to compare the new version with the original version. Richard -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net] On Behalf Of Peter Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 3:50 PM To: Tom; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release There is a small chance that they (Adobe) pulled the webpage of request from the EFF. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org/ http://www.boykottadobe.org I was now sent a copy of the press release. it contains a lot of the "it's all for our customers" bullshit, and a few things I want to comment on: > Adobe encourages its customers and the software community, including > White Hat security experts, to provide feedback on the performance of > its software in order to make improvements. Adobe's concern is that a > "digital lock pick" is being distributed to enable others to > compromise the copyrighted works of authors, artists, developers and > publishers, which is why Adobe alerted the U.S. Attorney's office. if you pick an analogy, adobe, you must be aware of it's shortcomings. AFAIK, lock picks are not and have never been illegal in the US. > Q: Who says that the United States gets to impose its laws > (specifically, the Digital Millenium Copyright Act) on individuals and > businesses in other countries? > A: Questions regarding the law and its enforcement in this case should > be forwarded to the U.S. Attorney's office. > > Q: What will happen next? > A: Any questions regarding this investigation should be forwarded to > the U.S. Attorney's office. I guess that means we can forget about the EFF meeting. adobe has officially removed itself from the equation. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From pedro at tastytronic.net Mon Jul 23 13:01:52 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago report! Message-ID: <20010723150151.R8747@tastytronic.net> Chicago went well! 20+ people handed out roughly 1000 fliers. Pictures and more info to come later tonight. FREE DMITRY, pedro -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- FBI has imprisioned a Russian software engineer for promoting and teaching the concept of "fair use". Read more: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From rms at privacyfoundation.org Mon Jul 23 12:59:21 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01bd01c113b1$f99adea0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> My guess is that not everyone (eg. legal) at Adobe signed off on the release. If the release reappears on the Adobe site, it will be interesting to compare the new version with the original version. Richard -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net] On Behalf Of Peter Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 3:50 PM To: Tom; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release There is a small chance that they (Adobe) pulled the webpage of request from the EFF. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org/ http://www.boykottadobe.org I was now sent a copy of the press release. it contains a lot of the "it's all for our customers" bullshit, and a few things I want to comment on: > Adobe encourages its customers and the software community, including > White Hat security experts, to provide feedback on the performance of > its software in order to make improvements. Adobe's concern is that a > "digital lock pick" is being distributed to enable others to > compromise the copyrighted works of authors, artists, developers and > publishers, which is why Adobe alerted the U.S. Attorney's office. if you pick an analogy, adobe, you must be aware of it's shortcomings. AFAIK, lock picks are not and have never been illegal in the US. > Q: Who says that the United States gets to impose its laws > (specifically, the Digital Millenium Copyright Act) on individuals and > businesses in other countries? > A: Questions regarding the law and its enforcement in this case should > be forwarded to the U.S. Attorney's office. > > Q: What will happen next? > A: Any questions regarding this investigation should be forwarded to > the U.S. Attorney's office. I guess that means we can forget about the EFF meeting. adobe has officially removed itself from the equation. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From wendy at seltzer.com Mon Jul 23 13:03:52 2001 From: wendy at seltzer.com (Wendy Seltzer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [nylug-talk] New York rally a success!! In-Reply-To: <01072315362803.17977@lorien> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010723155541.02c1d640@mailbox.bellatlantic.net> At 03:36 PM 7/23/01 -0400, Leonid Gorkin wrote: >We had about 30 people in front of New York Public Library. Rally continued >for about 2 1/2 hours. We had several signs, and distributed about 2000 >flyers. Some people stopped to discuss the issue with us. New York Times >reporters were there and talked with several protesters. Unfortunatelly, we >were completely ignored by all TV media. I guess they had more interesting >things to report Congrats, and sorry I couldn't make it. The public library makes a great backdrop for a protest against those who would keep us from reading its books. On that note, has anyone contacted the American Library Association? The librarians have been on the right side in fighting the DMCA, giving good amicus briefs in Universal v. Reimerdes and comments in the Register of Copyright's rulemaking. They realize their custody of public knowledge is threatened when owning a copy of a work doesn't give you an unfettered right to read it. From time to time, I get updates from their Washington office with the following contact info: ALA Washington Office, 1301 Pennsylvania Ave., N.W., Suite 403, Washington, D.C. 20004-1701; phone: 202.628.8410 or 800.941.8478 toll-free; fax: 202.628.8419; e-mail: alawash@alawash.org; Web site: http://www.ala.org/washoff. --Wendy >You can see the pictures from the protest, fresh and completely unedited, at: > >http://umklaydet.com/nyc > >Thanks to everybody who came to the rally and all people who supported us! >This is just a first step! > >-- Leonid -- Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.com Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard Law School http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html From free-sklyarov at onethumb.com Mon Jul 23 13:03:42 2001 From: free-sklyarov at onethumb.com (Don MacAskill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Live San Jose (Adobe HQ) Update! Message-ID: <20010723130342.A59221@world.anarchy.com> So I'm here at San Jose in front of Adobe's HQ. There are 70-80 people here and quite a few press vans. Adobe employees are walking by the windows, filming us, and in some cases, even waving. None have come out as far as I can tell, despite loud urgings on our part. :) The EFF have just reported to us that they are in the middle of a break with Adobe in their meetings. We can see them in the windows. They report that the meeting has been very open and frank, but that it could go either way. I'll post more as I get it up at at http://www.freedmitry.org/ Don From xyz at kalifornia.com Mon Jul 23 13:11:35 2001 From: xyz at kalifornia.com (xyz@kalifornia.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release IGNORE PREVIOUS In-Reply-To: <1949208370.20010723231943@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: Doh, yah, I got it, attached. My bad. -D On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Vladimir Katalov wrote: > Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:19:43 +0400 > From: Vladimir Katalov > To: "James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)" , > free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: Re[2]: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release > > Hello James, > > >> http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/dmca.html > > JSHFS> seems pulled > > JSHFS> did anyone save a copy? > > Sure we did ;) > > > From xyz at kalifornia.com Mon Jul 23 13:10:14 2001 From: xyz at kalifornia.com (xyz@kalifornia.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release In-Reply-To: <1949208370.20010723231943@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: Mind forwarding a copy or providing a URL for the list? -D > Hello James, > > >> http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/dmca.html > > JSHFS> seems pulled > > JSHFS> did anyone save a copy? > > Sure we did ;) > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: adobe-pr.zip Type: application/x-zip-compressed Size: 17374 bytes Desc: Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010723/ae2bbd05/adobe-pr.bin From pmasloch at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 13:12:31 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW: RUNET.COM Warning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: damn....you are right! I fixed it :-))) Thank you Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boykottadobe.com and you have a prob with your sig-- spelling for boycottadobe.com : ) cheers, Kristen -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Peter Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 12:57 PM To: Free-Sklyarov@Zork. Net Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW: RUNET.COM Warning looks like somebody here on the list has an problem with his e-mail adress Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org/ http://www.boykottadobe.org -----Original Message----- From: MAIL_DAEMON@runet.com [mailto:MAIL_DAEMON@runet.com] Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 3:44 PM To: pmasloch@earthlink.net Subject: RUNET.COM Warning The mail message you have sent to eden could not be delivered for the following reason: specified user does not exist _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From gbroiles at well.com Mon Jul 23 13:12:15 2001 From: gbroiles at well.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] San Jose update Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010723130100.0310f920@pop3.norton.antivirus> Pictures in progress from the San Jose rally are available online at ; the turnout has been very good (100-120 people at peak, maybe 60 now), people are energetic and positive. Participants left the Adobe building briefly at 1pm and have returned for more chanting & sign-waving at the Adobe employees who are watching (and videotaping) from inside the building. Online and TV media has been here. Sorry for the lack of descriptions/thumbnails, this is happening via Ricochet from the park across the street. -- Greg Broiles gbroiles@well.com From jeyk at home.com Mon Jul 23 13:08:35 2001 From: jeyk at home.com (Jey Kottalam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] San Diego information? References: <3B5C7FF4.CC31D00A@avencom.com> Message-ID: <003c01c113b3$41dc87d0$862ef90a@private> [snip] > Anyone know for sure that this is tonight (Mon. 7/23)? The > boycottadobe site above indicates that it's on "Sunday" without any > further date specifics. The EFF rideshare board, though, indicates > it's today. > > http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010723_sandiego_rideshare.html > > Any more information out there? > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > Can anyone help with San Diego event information? Thanks! > There is currently *no protest planned*. Bob La Quey had arranged for an organization meeting yesterday at the Sheraton Hotel, but apparently noone showed up. Hopefully Bob will be able to give us suggestions on what to do for the future.... this week is a golden opportunity with OSCON. -Jey Kottalam From free-sklyarov at onethumb.com Mon Jul 23 13:12:40 2001 From: free-sklyarov at onethumb.com (Don MacAskill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] San Jose (Adobe HQ) Update Message-ID: <20010723131240.A59745@world.anarchy.com> Hmm, I sent this awhile ago, but didn't see it go through. Apologies if it's just stuck in a queue somewhere and it's a dupe.... So I'm here at San Jose in front of Adobe's HQ. There are 70-80 people here and quite a few press vans. Adobe employees are walking by the windows, filming us, and in some cases, even waving. None have come out as far as I can tell, despite loud urgings on our part. :) The EFF have just reported to us that they are in the middle of a break with Adobe in their meetings. We can see them in the windows. They report that the meeting has been very open and frank, but that it could go either way. I'll post more as I get it up at at http://www.freedmitry.org/ Don From sklyarov at lethe.com Mon Jul 23 13:17:46 2001 From: sklyarov at lethe.com (Kevin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release Message-ID: <01a401c113b4$8bb76ea0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> Since it was a press release, and it was under the heading "For Immediate Release", I assume it was meant for distribution. As such, I have a copy of the text on my website. http://www.lethe.com/dmca.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010723/9d2b7f74/attachment.htm From jays at panix.com Mon Jul 23 13:21:45 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [nylug-talk] New York rally a success!! In-Reply-To: <01072315362803.17977@lorien> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Leonid Gorkin wrote: > We had about 30 people in front of New York Public Library. Rally > continued for about 2 1/2 hours. We had several signs, and distributed > about 2000 flyers. Some people stopped to discuss the issue with us. > New York Times reporters were there and talked with several > protesters. Unfortunatelly, we were completely ignored by all TV > media. I guess they had more interesting things to report. > > You can see the pictures from the protest, fresh and completely unedited, at: > > http://umklaydet.com/nyc > > Thanks to everybody who came to the rally and all people who supported us! > This is just a first step! > > -- Leonid By one incomplete count 3000 flyers were distributed. Vagn walked up and down with a fine boxy sign. Ruben brought I. and D. along, who are old hands at this stuff, I think. Many people passing already knew of Dmitry's jailing. Two had secret decoder rings, which they swore had been hacked to decode Alice in Wonderland, so it could be read aloud with their families. Anton, Jo and Joe and Joe, and Sonny and Sonny, and Paula, and lo, and ms, and M, and many who wore the colors of the NYC-Geeks, and other partisans were all there. Free Dmitry Sklyarov! oo--JS. From jstyre at jstyre.com Mon Jul 23 13:27:30 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] UseNix to include Felten et al research In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010723120910.06311ef8@earthlink.net> References: <20010723114443.E13349@zork.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010723132557.0635bfb0@earthlink.net> At 12:33 PM 7/23/2001 -0700, James S. Tyre wrote: >Yes, the presentation of "Reading Between the Lines ..." will be >Wednesday, 7/15, 6:00 p.m., immediately followed by what should be an >interesting panel discussion on DMCA/SDMI, >http://www.usenix.org/events/sec01/tech.html#sdmi. My bad. August 15, not July. -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From declan at well.com Mon Jul 23 13:40:15 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Alan Cox reaction In-Reply-To: ; from rabbi@quickie.net on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 01:11:03PM -0700 References: <20010722115452.C8716@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20010723164014.A6225@cluebot.com> Ian, is that right? I always thought you headed north (besides the fact that it was a great job) because of U.S. encryption regulations that were a threat and that are not anymore. (Was the DMCA even in existence when you took the ZKS job?) -Declan On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 01:11:03PM -0700, Len Sassaman wrote: > Well, ian Goldberg has repeatedly stated that his reason for not remaining > in the US was the passage of the DMCA. So, there's another... > > On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Tom wrote: > > > On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 04:44:56AM -0400, Xcott Craver wrote: > > > > alan's comments to usenix, however, made me wonder. I doubt that things > > > > like this are very effective, but they certainly FEEL right. > > > > > > The problem is that other countries are next, with similar > > > copyright laws. You can't just flee the US and be safe. > > > > I am already fighting the euro-DMCA locally, thank you. > > > > > One other problem is that a "boycott" has to be noticeable, > > > if only from a PR standpoint. Americans have the funny > > > tendency to be completely out of touch with the rest of the > > > world; Canada could declare war on us and we wouldn't even > > > notice. > > > > "brain-drain" is an incredible PR opportunity. someone has already > > turned down an adobe job offer. if we had someone else who refuses to > > move to the states now as a result of this, and a few others who say > > they had been contemplating it, but now they've changed their minds - > > some journalist will make a story of it. ("high-tech minds abandoning > > the USA after DMCA prosecution") > > > > > > -- > > -- http://web.lemuria.org > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > -- > > Len Sassaman > > Security Architect | > Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." > | > http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From tom at lemuria.org Mon Jul 23 13:34:43 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] /. Message-ID: <20010723223441.A12399@lemuria.org> I just got a protest story posted on slashdot. comments are coming in, even though taco had to tack on a stupid and distracting comment. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From robertl1 at home.com Mon Jul 23 13:41:35 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What is up with the EFF/Adobe meeting? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010723133951.00acd510@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> OK it is 1:40 PM PDT as I write. The meeting was supposed to be from 19:45 AM till noon. Does anyone have any information on what has happened? Bob La Quey From jays at panix.com Mon Jul 23 13:42:21 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:54 2005 Subject: [nylug-talk] RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: <20010723163725.A3448@dadadada.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Billy wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > I vote for noon Monday 23 July 2001 in front of the offices of Adobe on > > 40th Street on the Island of the Manahattoes. > > Ack!! I've got to check my mail more often!!! > I'm too late! Not for next Monday's protest. May Dmitry be free before then! oo--JS. From declan at well.com Mon Jul 23 13:46:33 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: ; from jays@panix.com on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 05:09:15PM -0400 References: <20010722230057.A10961@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20010723164633.B6225@cluebot.com> Offtopic: A few years ago is a different story, just for historical accuracy. A House committee at the time approved a bill that would have made the distribution of nonescrowed crypto a crime. See my writeup in the cryptome.org archives. -Declan On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 05:09:15PM -0400, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > > > On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Tom wrote: > > > On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 04:56:27PM -0400, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > > > There is a danger that the Copyright Englobulators of Earth will succeed > > > in outlawing encrypted packets at the ISP and backbone level. > > > > not going to happen. VPN is a *huge* topic right now, and several > > carriers strive to offer it to everyone who comes and pays. > > incidently, VPN outside the carrier network requires encryption. :) > > Here is how encryption could be denied to individuals: > > You must get a license to run a VPN, or indeed any encryption, and > licenses are only issued to responsible entities. Licenses cost $10,000 > for one year, with a small per node fee in addition. > > oo--JS. > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From spider at sneakybastard.com Mon Jul 23 13:55:34 2001 From: spider at sneakybastard.com (Sonia Arana) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] "No Free Speech for Hackers" In-Reply-To: <20010723204128.B11761@lemuria.org> Message-ID: http://www.contracostatimes.com/computing/stories/o22yael_20010722.htm The author calls Dmitry a hacker, but clearly has some respect for the term. The article is a good rant against the DMCA and how it hinders research and free speech. choice quote: "Think about it -- it's legal to run a KKK or neo-Nazi Web site, but you can't link to sites that offend the sensibilities (or threat to diminish the profit margins) of high-tech giants." Sonia From mkbilbo at cdcla.com Mon Jul 23 13:56:08 2001 From: mkbilbo at cdcla.com (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] San Jose and then LA References: <20010723113002.Z13349@zork.net> <20010723123659.H13349@zork.net> Message-ID: <007301c113b9$e5c1ded0$3088d790@tti.com> Nice to hear about it being "energetic." Wish I could've made it up there! The LA rally was small but surprising. Don't think we reached a dozen at any one time but the interesting part was that about *half of the people who showed up said they weren't even on the mailing lists. They stumbled over news about the rallys and went looking for the LA one (kudos to Hackhawk for getting the website up so quickly). Did get some press with a small IT publication. Interviews, pictures, such. For something so last minute and kind of thrown together, it went rather well I think. Interesting random mix of the 40something office crowd and 20something new kids on the block. Lots of traffic on Wilshire, rather surprising number of "thumbs up" and honks of support. Mark (back to the drudgery of the office now...) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Moffitt" To: Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] San Jose protest update > Begin Nick Moffitt quotation: > > I can't make the protests in the Bay Area, but I just called Don > > Marti's cell phone and got an update. > > I just called again, and the San Jose rally is very energetic! > I had to ask Don to repeat himself a few times. They were chanting > "Adobe's memo is a lie!", referring I believe to the release that > Adobe recently removed from their Web site. Don put me on hold and > called for a unified cheer, and even over his tinny cellular phone it > was quite impressive. > > Still no word from the EFF. > > -- > "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very > slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda > 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! > ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From declan at well.com Mon Jul 23 13:51:57 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress In-Reply-To: ; from FreeSklyarov@ZName.com on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 08:36:03PM -0500 References: <4.2.0.58.20010722192458.01587e50@students.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <20010723165157.C6225@cluebot.com> It's a short list. The DMCA passed without objection in both chambers. -Declan On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 08:36:03PM -0500, James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov) wrote: > > >>>Let's not forget that one letter to Congress > >>>from an organization like the ACM > >>>probably carries more clout than a dozen demonstrations. > > > Speaking of Congress, is there a list anywhere of Senators and > Representatives who oppose DMCA or who are "friendly" to this issue? > > > James S. Huggins > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From declan at well.com Mon Jul 23 13:55:34 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Press Coverage In-Reply-To: <20010722215120.5a22f78f.mrmanley@home.com>; from mrmanley@home.com on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 09:51:20PM -0500 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010722223316.00ad7c98@mail.utstar.com> <20010722215120.5a22f78f.mrmanley@home.com> Message-ID: <20010723165534.D6225@cluebot.com> Like most news organizations, they're somewhat beat-centric. If their DMCA guy is out, they may be slow to pick up on it. They may have run wire copy, though. -Declan On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 09:51:20PM -0500, Monty R Manley wrote: > On Sun, 22 Jul 2001 22:40:06 -0400 > "Sreeni R. Nair" wrote: > > I was surprised at Salon's lack of coverage on this issue. They're > usually right on top of this kind of thing. Hopefully they can make up in > depth what they missed in timeliness. > > Regards, > > Monty Manley > > > I sent an email to Scott Rosenberg of Salon.com, and requested coverage > of > > the Dmitry affair (Salon, uncharacteristically, has not yet published > any > > article on the case till now). He replied that they are currently short > of > > tech reporters, most of the staff being on vacation, but added that > > "[Salon] will do our best to find a new angle on this story and catch up > to > > it." > > > > > > > > > > The ordinary man acts because he thinks his act will be profitable; the > > superior man, however, acts because he thinks his act is right. > > -- Confucius > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > -- > Visit my blog at http://mrorganic.blogspot.com > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From spider at sneakybastard.com Mon Jul 23 14:19:29 2001 From: spider at sneakybastard.com (Sonia Arana) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] News from the San Jose Rally In-Reply-To: <0107231356.0JL8I00@lowerlights.com> Message-ID: I'm on the phone with Len Sassaman. I'm hearing lots of loud, clear chanting of "What do we want?" FREE DMITRY! "When do we want it?" NOW! Over 100 protesters showed up at Adobe's doorstep. EFF is still negotiating with Adobe execs. Tshirts are sold out. Bus drivers are taking stacks of flyers to give to their passengers. The courthouse guards have come by to read flyers. Drivers are honking their horns in support. ABC, Wired news and other TV news reporters are there. Apparently Adobe employees wanted to give the protesters water, but management stopped them. that's the scoop from my cell phone... Sonia, bitter she can't actually be there due to academic committments... From seth.johnson at RealMeasures.dyndns.org Mon Jul 23 14:01:03 2001 From: seth.johnson at RealMeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release Message-ID: So send us a copy? Seth Johnson -----Original Message----- From: Vladimir Katalov Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:19:43 +0400 Subject: Re[2]: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release > Hello James, > > JSHFS> did anyone save a copy? > > Sure we did ;) > > > -- > Best regards, > Vladimir From declan at well.com Mon Jul 23 14:12:16 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Update on Adobe-EFF meeting Message-ID: <20010723171216.A8253@cluebot.com> Just heard back from both EFF and Abobe. Adobe says: "the meeting is still going on, so I don't have an update for you yet. EFF is more forthcoming, saying that as of 1 pm PT they were still in discussions after a recess/bathroom break where sides talked among themselves. My source: "It has been open and frank about where to go from here... it could still go either way. Adobe employees are rubbernecking at the protesters outside. More soon." -Declan From seth.johnson at RealMeasures.dyndns.org Mon Jul 23 14:09:30 2001 From: seth.johnson at RealMeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation Message-ID: Isn't this: > The Adobe (?) Acrobat (?) eBook Reader . . . enables you to use your > existing Windows PC or Macintosh as a sophisticated eBook reading > device. . . . a lot of hooey? Seth Johnson From jays at panix.com Mon Jul 23 14:15:32 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [nylug-talk] New York rally a success!! In-Reply-To: <0107231710250H.16057@movitslinux.bloomberg.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Mordechai Ovits wrote: > On Monday 23 July 2001 04:21, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > [SNIP] > > Many people passing already knew of Dmitry's jailing. > > Really? > > Mordy Well, I spoke to a handful of passers-by who did know. This is more than I expected. oo--JS. From sklyarov at lethe.com Mon Jul 23 14:20:09 2001 From: sklyarov at lethe.com (Kevin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Talking points Message-ID: <023201c113bd$40b03140$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> Here is a post on /. that gives some good talking points for various audiences. http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=01/07/23/1956254&cid=121 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010723/9b676a80/attachment.html From tom at lemuria.org Mon Jul 23 14:22:08 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] slashdot story Message-ID: <20010723232204.A14198@lemuria.org> I just got a /. story posted, even though taco had to add a stupid and distracting comment to it. answers are rolling in. it appears that with an earlier /. posting and without EFF's "protests on hold", we could have had more people on the street today. there's also the interesting suggestion to hit adobe by hiring away their techies (many of whom will feel awful right now). any news from EFF or the san jose protests (which, according to yahoo, are excepting 400(!) people) ? (first posting with this content seems to have vanished - if it shows up again, discard it) -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From sam at dasbistro.com Mon Jul 23 14:31:05 2001 From: sam at dasbistro.com (Sam Phillips) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RENO RALLY REPORT Message-ID: <20010723143105.M12936@dasbistro.com> It was great. At peak we had 11 people in the hot sun holding signs and handing out flyers. For those of you who aren't familiar with Reno, the Federal building is at the edge of the Downtown where all of the tourists drop their money into a bucket. So there was a lot of motor traffic going on. Surprisingly more people than you would expect knew about what was going on. The local alternative weekly newspaper came out, and one of the TV stations sent out a crew and interviewed me. While protesting we got a call from UPI, who was trying to get a hold of as many of protest groups as they could. Around 12:30 I called down to the San Jose protest, and was deafend by the people that were there. Lot's of noise at their rally. Very cool. Got info about EFF/Adobe meetings, and got a earful of "What do we want? When do we want it?" Overall we had a great event. Free Dmitry! -- Sam Phillips http://www.dasbistro.com Reno Nevada From warthawg at ecpi.com Mon Jul 23 14:37:43 2001 From: warthawg at ecpi.com (Joe Barr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] International law and U.S. v. Sklyarov In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720143951.02076250@mail.well.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720143951.02076250@mail.well.com> Message-ID: <20010723163743.4ed48c86.warthawg@ecpi.com> Perhaps his presentation at Defcon was sufficient for the conditions of "otherwise traffic"? That would put the commission of the crime in the US, not Russia. See ya, Joe Barr On Fri, 20 Jul 2001 14:51:47 -0400 Declan McCullagh wrote: > Chris is an unusually smart fellow, and I have no quibble with what he > says. But in thinking through this myself, it seems like these are > reasonable questions: > > 1. Is it reasonable for one country's law to apply to those people > who committed "crimes" while outside that country? Personally, I'm inclined > to say no, but I recognize that the weight of legal opinion is likely > against me. > > 2. Does writing the code for Elcomsoft's product violate the DMCA? > (let's ignore the jurisdictional question for the moment) The problem here > is that the DMCA was intentionally written terribly broadly. It says: "No > person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or > otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, > or part thereof, that (circumvents, etc.)" It's true the prosecution has > just lodged the trafficking charge, but I can see them amending their > charges to include "manufacturing" if necessary. > > This is a real danger, and this is why y'all should be agitating to repeal > or amend the DMCA as well as freeing Sklyarov, since for all you know there > could be 10 more arrests that are scheduled to take place in the next hour. > > Does anyone have any cites to how broadly "traffic in" has been interpreted > by U.S. courts? > > -Declan > > > At 02:37 PM 7/20/01 -0400, Chris Savage wrote: > >I think the problem here is linking the person arrested with the intra-US > >conduct. > > > >Let's assume that a programmer writes works for hire for the company for > >whom he works. > > > >Let's assume that the works are legal in the country where the programmer > >works. > > > >Let's assume that the company causes those works to be available in > >Country X, where for some reason they are illegal. > > > >The programmer has done nothing illegal that I can see. The company has > >acted legally in the place where it resides, but acted illegally in a > >country to which its products got exported. > > > >I'm not an expert on international law, but I don't see the liability of > >the programmer here. > > > >Chris S. > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- #====================================================# # Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! Free Sklyarov! # #====================================================# From declan at well.com Mon Jul 23 14:36:00 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] International law and U.S. v. Sklyarov In-Reply-To: <20010723163743.4ed48c86.warthawg@ecpi.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010720143951.02076250@mail.well.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010720143951.02076250@mail.well.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723173505.02507ec0@mail.well.com> At 04:37 PM 7/23/01 -0500, Joe Barr wrote: >Perhaps his presentation at Defcon was sufficient for the conditions of >"otherwise traffic"? > >That would put the commission of the crime in the US, not Russia. Perhaps if Defcon reimburses speakers, or it was part of a broader business trip? *shrug* We'll see the court documents soon enough, I suspect. -Declan From neale at woozle.org Mon Jul 23 14:41:09 2001 From: neale at woozle.org (Neale Pickett) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattle Message-ID: We had almost 40 people show up; not as many as I'd hoped, but many more than I had initially expected. The first group left at 1, the second group, after waiting an hour, left to join the rest at noon. We got a couple of interviews with local media stations and independant media groups, unfortunately, the big media outlets left before the second group joined in. I personally got interviewed three times, and I saw many others giving interviews as well. (Bill Scannell is a darned good speaker!) One point of interest was a Russian-sounding man who followed us back to the park. He had an issue with the use of the hammer-and-sicle in the logo. I got the feeling this to him was like parading through a Jewish neighborhood with a swastika on something. Even if meant as hyperbole, it was clear that at least this individual thought we had gone too far. OTOH, it got him riled up enough that he wanted to know what we were doing. We're all pretty pleased with the attention we got, and I have a feeling we'll go out again if need be. Here's hoping for a good outcome with Adobe today! Neale From mkbilbo at cdcla.com Mon Jul 23 14:45:58 2001 From: mkbilbo at cdcla.com (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NY Times Article References: <01072307352103.15652@bilbo.blorch.org> <20010723115742.G13349@zork.net> Message-ID: <00fd01c113c0$dc5aa0a0$3088d790@tti.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Moffitt" To: Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] NY Times Article > Begin Mark K. Bilbo quotation: > > The point of meeting with the EFF is apparently just to shut us all > > up. > > Regardless, meeting with the EFF did not shut us up. Apparently not. Mark From proclus at iname.com Mon Jul 23 14:50:57 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (Michael L. Love) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] test Message-ID: <3B5C9C41.6050501@iname.com> -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From ageddyn at minitru.org Mon Jul 23 15:17:25 2001 From: ageddyn at minitru.org (Dkr. Armand Geddyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Austin preliminary report In-Reply-To: <20010723125857.G98211@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: (This message was bcc'ed to the PigDog Journal and the original reporters) Here are two, slightly conflicting preliminary reports from the Austin demonstration today. Sorry for the belated release. Expect a more fleshed-out writeup with pictures later tonight (after I get home from work and eat something) at http://www.minitru.org/dmca . Thanks everyone for all your work and interest. I assume, since I haven't heard otherwise, that Dmitry is still in jail. Thus, please remember, we haven't achieved our immediate goal quite yet. - - - - - - - - Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:36:51 -0500 From: Malibu Barbie Geddyn So, we're back. Me and Rev Dead Corpse. We did not get arrested or anything and it was quite an enjoyable experience for my *first* protest ever. It ended up being 20 geek protesters holding signs and passing out pamphlets to everyone out in front of the capitol building. We had two hard core Libertarians with us, one who is running for State Rep, and the chairman of the Travis County Libertarian party. ... who I've seen on public access, and in person was very chatty, funny and informative. More later. -- Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:55:47 -0500 From: Rev. Dead Corpse Had about twenty people show up from various directions. Barbie and I had both printed out some fliers to hand out, a couple of others brought even more. We had to lay down a suppressing fire to keep the Texas Rangers from charging our position. After consulting with some of the local fauna, a red squirrel who seemed to know a little too much for comfort, we converged on the steps of the capitol using two-by-two cover and maintaining a fifteen meter spread. Once we were entrenched in our position on the steps, we started the real objective of our assault by opening up intersecting lanes of fire. Many civilians found themselves accosted and handed fliers. Cassualties should start flooding local hospitals any second now. All that carnage and the local media was conspiciously absent. Their loss. There was a little dissention amongst the ranks as to how to portray the issue. Freedom of speech? Anti-Globalism? Anti-"Big Government"? Anti-"Big Business"? Things settled out somewhere between free speech and government intrusion. -- Dkr. Armand Geddyn | ageddyn@minitru.org "You can get more with a kind word and a 2x4 than you can with just a kind word." - Ben Franklin From prostoalex at hotbox.ru Mon Jul 23 15:35:14 2001 From: prostoalex at hotbox.ru (Alexander Moskalyuk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] St Paul Message-ID: <200107232235.f6NMZEo61508@www1.mailru.com> previously mentioned St Paul protest photos sites seem to load exceptionally slow. I am not sure whether the problem is on my end, but the other sites are replying okay. http://www.underwhelm.org/freedima/ If the owner has a problem with hosting or connection speed, I would gladly put the pictures up on my site. From admin at seattle-chat.com Mon Jul 23 15:03:38 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattle Protest Pictures Message-ID: The protest was a success, we had two tv stations there, along with indi media, and Tech TV. Channels 4 Komo and 5 King if you want to see it on tv locally on the news. Link to Pictures - http://www.premier1.net/~rwkramer From rms at privacyfoundation.org Mon Jul 23 15:06:40 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why doesn't Adobe what to talk about Dmitry's arrest? Message-ID: <01fc01c113c3$c2ec48a0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Hello, One thing that Adobe spin control is attempting to do is to say it was all the FBI's idea to arrest Dmitry Sklyarov in Las Vegas. Here's how their now withdrawn FAQ presented the "facts" of the arrest: "Q.: Did Adobe order the arrest? A: Adobe did not order the arrest. That was the sole decision of the U.S. government. Adobe alerted the U.S. Attorney's office to investigate the activities of Elcomsoft regarding the possible illegal distribution of its "Advanced eBook Processor." Based on the information gathered in the investigation (see affidavit), the U.S. Government chose to take legal action." It's very interesting to compare this presentation to the FBI complaint: http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010707_complaint.html "e. Adobe learned that Dmitry Sklyarov is slated to speak on July 15, 1001 at a conference entitled Defcon-9 at Las Vegas Nevada. [Daryl] Spano [of Adobe] told me that he learned that Sklyarov is scheduled to make a presentation related to the AEBPR software program." Common sense says that it is very likely that Adobe provided Dmitry's US travel plans in order to get him arrested by the FBI. What other reason could Adobe have for giving this information to the FBI? In addition, Adobe seemed to trying to downplaying almost any role in Dmitry's arrest with the press, but they got caught because the FBI complaint tells a much different story: http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2790369,00.html "While [Susan Altman] Prescott first portrayed Adobe as somewhat removed from the investigation, she later acknowledged that the company "brought it to the attention of the U.S. government." Does anyone have any guesses of why Adobe doesn't appear to want to talk about the arrest issue more honestly? Their actions make even less sense given that the FBI complaint makes Adobe's role so clear. Richard From lgorkin1 at nyc.rr.com Mon Jul 23 15:30:42 2001 From: lgorkin1 at nyc.rr.com (Leonid Gorkin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [nylug-talk] New York rally a success!! In-Reply-To: <200107232022.f6NKMBX03810@www2.mrbrklyn.com> References: <200107232022.f6NKMBX03810@www2.mrbrklyn.com> Message-ID: <01072318304205.17977@lorien> Just an idea -- why don't we organize a rally close to the stock exchange, under the slogan: "ADBE -- sell, sell, sell!!!" Hit it where it hurts, huh? On Monday 23 July 2001 04:22 pm, Brooklyn Linux Solutions CEO wrote: > I could use a report on the protest for www.nyfairuse.org, if someone wants > to write it. Images are at > > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/protest_images/ > > > Next week I call a meeting to organize a lobby to repeal the DMCA. > > Ruben > > > At 03:36 PM 7/23/01 -0400, Leonid Gorkin wrote: > > >We had about 30 people in front of New York Public Library. Rally > > > continued for about 2 1/2 hours. We had several signs, and distributed > > > about 2000 flyers. Some people stopped to discuss the issue with us. > > > New York Times reporters were there and talked with several protesters. > > > Unfortunatelly, we were completely ignored by all TV media. I guess > > > they had more interesting things to report > > > > Congrats, and sorry I couldn't make it. > > The public library makes a great backdrop for a protest against those who > > would keep us from reading its books. > > > > On that note, has anyone contacted the American Library Association? The > > librarians have been on the right side in fighting the DMCA, giving good > > amicus briefs in Universal v. Reimerdes and comments in the Register of > > Copyright's rulemaking. They realize their custody of public knowledge > > is threatened when owning a copy of a work doesn't give you an unfettered > > right to read it. > > > > From time to time, I get updates from their Washington office with the > > following contact info: > > > > ALA Washington Office, 1301 Pennsylvania Ave., N.W., Suite 403, > > Washington, D.C. 20004-1701; phone: 202.628.8410 or 800.941.8478 > > toll-free; fax: 202.628.8419; e-mail: alawash@alawash.org; Web > > site: http://www.ala.org/washoff. > > > > --Wendy > > > > >You can see the pictures from the protest, fresh and completely > > > unedited, at: > > > > > >http://umklaydet.com/nyc > > > > > >Thanks to everybody who came to the rally and all people who supported > > > us! This is just a first step! > > > > > >-- Leonid > > > > -- > > Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.com > > Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard Law School > > http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html From xeni at xeni.net Mon Jul 23 15:55:16 2001 From: xeni at xeni.net (Xeni Jardin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] L.A. rally photos 07.23.01 Message-ID: Photos from today's Sklyarov support rally in front of the Los Angeles Federal Building are here: http://www.xeni.net/sklyarovla.htm Xeni Jardin VP, Conferences + Senior Writer Silicon Alley Reporter magazine ___________________________________________ ? Coming Events include: Venture Capital Summit October 2001 in NYC, November in SF www.venturecapitalsummit.com ? Online + email publications: www.siliconalleydaily.com www.digitalcoastdaily.com www.digitalmusicweekly.com www.wirelessreporter.com www.ihealthcareweekly.com From freesk at hackhawk.net Mon Jul 23 16:04:06 2001 From: freesk at hackhawk.net (hackhawk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boston protest a success! In-Reply-To: <20010723122639.E98211@networkcommand.com> References: <3B5C78A3.F431C0F9@sethf.com> <15196.21901.652306.31937@belboz> <3B5C78A3.F431C0F9@sethf.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723160256.00a05ab0@localhost> I just found TechTV in LA on the DISH Sattelite Network. Channel 191 - hh At 12:26 PM 7/23/01 -0700, Jon O . wrote: >Hey, good report and good work. What channel is TechTV on so I can >watch? > >Also, I've updated the site quite a bit, let me know what you think. > > >www.anti-dmca.org > > >On 23-Jul-2001, Seth Finkelstein wrote: > > I was there today. There was nice turnout, and I think some > > bystanders became educated on the issue. Non-programmers have > > definitely been hearing about the topic from the national media. > > > > Note: Why It's Important To Show Up - There was a reporter > > from the _Boston Globe_ at the protest. If no-one had been there, > > or almost no-one, he might have concluded there was no story here. > > As it was, several people talked to him and there might be story > > in that newspaper. > > > > Sign Of Effectiveness: Just before the protest, I went to > > a studio to appear on TechTV discussing my own programming work > > and how it related to the DMCA (see URL below). Even the cab driver > > had heard of Dimitry story, via the NPR coverage. > > > > -- > > Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com > > http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From freesk at hackhawk.net Mon Jul 23 16:06:26 2001 From: freesk at hackhawk.net (hackhawk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boston protest a success! In-Reply-To: <20010723122639.E98211@networkcommand.com> References: <3B5C78A3.F431C0F9@sethf.com> <15196.21901.652306.31937@belboz> <3B5C78A3.F431C0F9@sethf.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723160511.00a0ad20@localhost> AHAHAHA.... This guy on TechTV just sung a song to the tune of YMCA, but was talking about the DMCA. It was quite entertaining. He's talking about Dmitry right now!!! At 12:26 PM 7/23/01 -0700, Jon O . wrote: >Hey, good report and good work. What channel is TechTV on so I can >watch? > >Also, I've updated the site quite a bit, let me know what you think. > > >www.anti-dmca.org > > >On 23-Jul-2001, Seth Finkelstein wrote: > > I was there today. There was nice turnout, and I think some > > bystanders became educated on the issue. Non-programmers have > > definitely been hearing about the topic from the national media. > > > > Note: Why It's Important To Show Up - There was a reporter > > from the _Boston Globe_ at the protest. If no-one had been there, > > or almost no-one, he might have concluded there was no story here. > > As it was, several people talked to him and there might be story > > in that newspaper. > > > > Sign Of Effectiveness: Just before the protest, I went to > > a studio to appear on TechTV discussing my own programming work > > and how it related to the DMCA (see URL below). Even the cab driver > > had heard of Dimitry story, via the NPR coverage. > > > > -- > > Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com > > http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 23 16:06:46 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boston protest a success! In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723160511.00a0ad20@localhost>; from freesk@hackhawk.net on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 04:06:26PM -0700 References: <3B5C78A3.F431C0F9@sethf.com> <15196.21901.652306.31937@belboz> <3B5C78A3.F431C0F9@sethf.com> <20010723122639.E98211@networkcommand.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010723160511.00a0ad20@localhost> Message-ID: <20010723160646.U98211@networkcommand.com> Keep me updated if you can...Good stuff... On 23-Jul-2001, hackhawk wrote: > AHAHAHA.... This guy on TechTV just sung a song to the tune of YMCA, but > was talking about the DMCA. It was quite entertaining. He's talking about > Dmitry right now!!! > > At 12:26 PM 7/23/01 -0700, Jon O . wrote: > >Hey, good report and good work. What channel is TechTV on so I can > >watch? > > > >Also, I've updated the site quite a bit, let me know what you think. > > > > > >www.anti-dmca.org > > > > > >On 23-Jul-2001, Seth Finkelstein wrote: > > > I was there today. There was nice turnout, and I think some > > > bystanders became educated on the issue. Non-programmers have > > > definitely been hearing about the topic from the national media. > > > > > > Note: Why It's Important To Show Up - There was a reporter > > > from the _Boston Globe_ at the protest. If no-one had been there, > > > or almost no-one, he might have concluded there was no story here. > > > As it was, several people talked to him and there might be story > > > in that newspaper. > > > > > > Sign Of Effectiveness: Just before the protest, I went to > > > a studio to appear on TechTV discussing my own programming work > > > and how it related to the DMCA (see URL below). Even the cab driver > > > had heard of Dimitry story, via the NPR coverage. > > > > > > -- > > > Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com > > > http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From declan at well.com Mon Jul 23 16:09:27 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe backs down Message-ID: <20010723190927.A11673@cluebot.com> In case y'all haven't heard, Adobe has backed down and has agreed to recommend Sklyarov's release. -Declan From warthawg at ecpi.com Mon Jul 23 16:12:05 2001 From: warthawg at ecpi.com (Joe Barr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF Meeting Results? Message-ID: <20010723181205.740f8dd2.warthawg@ecpi.com> Is there any word yet on the outcome of the meeting today between Adobe and the EFF? -- #====================================================# # Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! Free Sklyarov! # #====================================================# From pablos at kadrevis.com Mon Jul 23 16:09:12 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] adobe address on your site are being blocked at adobe. (fwd) Message-ID: <111806.995904552@[10.0.1.220]> Adobe has their SPAM filters blocking messages sent to management Dmitry. Does anybody want to suggest a way to communicate with an ostrich while its head is buried firmly in the sand? pablos. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Monday, July 23, 2001 12:50 PM -0500 From: "Edge, Ronald D" To: "'nicehair@boycottadobe.com'" Subject: adobe address on your site are being blocked at adobe. See response to my email sent to addresses you list below. I guess they don't want to hear from us. Ron. Ronald D. Edge Manager of Information Systems Indiana University Intercollegiate Athletics http://www.athletics.indiana.edu/ edge@indiana.edu 812-855-4978 The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. --Groucho Marx The original message was received at Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:47:52 -0500 (EST) from massachusetts.exchange.indiana.edu [129.79.6.159] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- (reason: 553 5.3.0 ... 5.7.1 Your email to adobe.com has been blocked.Please see http://www.adobe.com/special/support/mailblock.html for assistance.) (reason: 553 5.3.0 ... 5.7.1 Your email to adobe.com has been blocked.Please see http://www.adobe.com/special/support/mailblock.html for assistance.) (reason: 553 5.3.0 ... 5.7.1 Your email to adobe.com has been blocked.Please see http://www.adobe.com/special/support/mailblock.html for assistance.) (reason: 553 5.3.0 ... 5.7.1 Your email to adobe.com has been blocked.Please see http://www.adobe.com/special/support/mailblock.html for assistance.) (reason: 553 5.3.0 ... 5.7.1 Your email to adobe.com has been blocked.Please see http://www.adobe.com/special/support/mailblock.html for assistance.) (reason: 553 5.3.0 ... 5.7.1 Your email to adobe.com has been blocked.Please see http://www.adobe.com/special/support/mailblock.html for assistance.) (reason: 553 5.3.0 ... 5.7.1 Your email to adobe.com has been blocked.Please see http://www.adobe.com/special/support/mailblock.html for assistance.) (reason: 553 5.3.0 ... 5.7.1 Your email to adobe.com has been blocked.Please see http://www.adobe.com/special/support/mailblock.html for assistance.) (reason: 553 5.3.0 ... 5.7.1 Your email to adobe.com has been blocked.Please see http://www.adobe.com/special/support/mailblock.html for assistance.) (reason: 553 5.3.0 ... 5.7.1 Your email to adobe.com has been blocked.Please see http://www.adobe.com/special/support/mailblock.html for assistance.) (reason: 553 5.3.0 ... 5.7.1 Your email to adobe.com has been blocked.Please see http://www.adobe.com/special/support/mailblock.html for assistance.) (reason: 553 5.3.0 ... 5.7.1 Your email to adobe.com has been blocked.Please see http://www.adobe.com/special/support/mailblock.html for assistance.) (reason: 553 5.3.0 ... 5.7.1 Your email to adobe.com has been blocked.Please see http://www.adobe.com/special/support/mailblock.html for assistance.) (reason: 553 5.3.0 ... 5.7.1 Your email to adobe.com has been blocked.Please see http://www.adobe.com/special/support/mailblock.html for assistance.) (reason: 553 5.3.0 ... 5.7.1 Your email to adobe.com has been blocked.Please see http://www.adobe.com/special/support/mailblock.html for assistance.) (reason: 553 5.3.0 ... 5.7.1 Your email to adobe.com has been blocked.Please see http://www.adobe.com/special/support/mailblock.html for assistance.) (reason: 553 5.3.0 ... 5.7.1 Your email to adobe.com has been blocked.Please see http://www.adobe.com/special/support/mailblock.html for assistance.) (reason: 553 5.3.0 ... 5.7.1 Your email to adobe.com has been blocked.Please see http://www.adobe.com/special/support/mailblock.html for assistance.) (reason: 553 5.3.0 ... 5.7.1 Your email to adobe.com has been blocked.Please see http://www.adobe.com/special/support/mailblock.html for assistance.) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to smtp-relay-1.adobe.com.: >>> MAIL From: SIZE=2210 RET=FULL <<< 553 5.3.0 ... 5.7.1 Your email to adobe.com has been blocked.Please see http://www.adobe.com/special/support/mailblock.html for assistance. 501 5.6.0 ,,,,,,,,... Data format error ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From pablos at kadrevis.com Mon Jul 23 16:12:09 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The evil Scame of Adobe Must be stopped (fwd) Message-ID: <122416.995904729@[10.0.1.220]> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Monday, July 23, 2001 10:31 AM -0700 From: jacob DROR To: "nicehair@boycottadobe.com" Subject: The evil Scame of Adobe Must be stopped > JACOB DROR > 14141 TIARA ST. APT 4 > VAN NUYS, CA 91401 > > > July 23, 2001 > > Next hearing Case Management July 30 10:30am San Jose Federal court. Case No: C-98 20617 JF EAI Looking for all the support so we can stop Adobe missuse of the law, the court in San Jose, in destroying many good people. > I would like to bring to your intention the > following and request your > help. > > My life, my family, my health and my company has > been destroyed by Adobe > systems. Since 1987 I owned a California corp , AIP > Group Inc. AIP was a > distributor of educational software to the > educational market including > Adobe software. The company was driven to bankruptcy > by Adobe unfair and > bogus actions. > > On March 27, 1996 Adobe and AIP Group, Inc. entered > into an agreement > authorizing AIP to sale current educational Adobe > software to Educational > End users. The agreement was sent via Fax to AIP and > was unreadable. The > main points of the agreement were explained by Adobe > to AIP and AIP has > signed the agreement and became an Adobe's > authorized Educational > reseller. Both parties honored the agreement until > the third quoter of > 1997. In the third quoter of 1997 Adobe Management > did not preform > financially and was under attack by its share > holders. Adobe has blamed > market conditions and the resellers for it's bad > results. At this period > of time as per the agreement, when Adobe released a > new version of > software, it took the old versions inventory from > the resellers and charge > the reseller 5% to cover shipping and handling > expanse. This transaction > took place with Ingram Micro Adobe's main > distributor and the world's > largest distribution of computer products including > software. In its > reseller agreement Adobe never mention an old > outdated versions, sales and > inventory reports were required as per the agreement > only of CURRENT > version software. The definition of Educational > software products in > section 1. (d) of the agreement mention only the > current Adobe products > that are listed in the current price list. The issue > of an old version did > not exist. In the third/fourth quoter of 1997 Adobe > management without > notice refuse to replace the old versions in order > to improve its profit > causing the resellers to lose there investments. AIP > has called Adobe and > Ingram Micro and complained. Adobe sales > representative and Ingram Micro > RMA department told AIP to "do what ever you want , > get rid off the old > versions we do not want them back." Left without a > choice AIP decided to > sale the old versions to who ever was willing to pay > some money for it, in > order to cover some of its investment and get rid > off the worthless and > unwanted products. Adobe did not offered an upgrade > to the old versions of > educational software. Few months later Adobe preform > an Audit taking AIP > customer list, and months later stole its customers > by offering directly > its products. In same time Adobe has filed a suit > claiming AIP action of > selling the old products constitute copyright > infringement, federal trade > mark infringement, etc. NO ONE CAN FIGHT ADOBE IN > SAN JOSE FEDERAL COURT. > AS ADOBE CLAIM " WE OWN THIS TOWN, WE NEVER LOST A > CASE, AND IT IS ALL > ABOUT WINNING." ADOBE HAS PROVED THAT THEY DO OWN > THE COURT AND THE SYSTEM > IN SAN JOSE, AND NO ONE CAN RECEIVE A JUST TRIAL. > > > ENCLOSED JUST FEW OF THE FILING THAT AIP DID WITH > THE COURT AND ADOBE > MANAGED TO KEEP AWAY FROM THE JUDGE AT THE CLERK > OFFICE. > > > > THE NEWLY DISCOVERED EVIDENCE SUPPORTS AIP'S OUTLINE > OF ADOBE'S EVIL > SCHEME AGAINST IT'S RESELLERS AND COMPETITORS. > Attached hereto is a January 16, 2001, public > announcement by Adobe's > Chief Executive Officer, BRUCE CHIZEN, which > defendants discovered on > January 19, 2001. The Adobe public announcement > supports AIP's version of > Adobe's evil scheme to first drive out its > competition and then defraud > their resellers, when Adobe refused to take back > obsolete and useless > versions. > In the public announcement, a true and correct copy > attached hereto as > Exhibit "A", Adobe's CEO, BRUCE CHIZEN, states: > I can sit here comfortably and say we are going to > win against Quark. > This was in response to Adobe's self admitted > "missteps" and its > "overdone" "effort to oust Quark's QuarkXpress." > Obviously, one misstep is the instant lawsuit. > > Attached hereto is page 27 of Form 10-K, a true and > correct copy attached > hereto as Exhibit "B", as filed BY ADOBE, with the > United States Security > and Exchange commission for the fiscal year ended > December 3, 1999, of > which the court is respectfully requested to take > judicial notice. It > state the follow: "We distribute our application > products primarily > through distributors, resellers, and retailers > (collectively referred to > as "distributors"). A significant amount of our > revenue for application > products is from a single distributor." " WE ARE IN > THE PROCESS OF > REVISING OUR CHANNEL PROGRAM TO REDUCE THE OVERALL > NUMBER OF OUR > DISTRIBUTORS WORLDWIDE AND FOCUS OUR CHANNEL EFFORTS > ON LARGER > DISTRIBUTORS." "ADDITIONALLY, OUR GOAL IS INCREASE > OUR DIRECT DISTRIBUTION > OF OUR PRODUCTS TO END USERS THROUGH OUR ONLINE > STORE LOCATED.." "While we > anticipate that the restructuring and streamlining > of our product > distribution channels and the increase in the SCOPE > OF OUR DIRECT > SALESEFFORTS WILL EVENTUALLY IMPROVE OUR BUSINESS BY > DECREASING DISCOUNTS > OR REBATES PROGRAMS PROVIDED TO DISTRIBUTORS, > DECREASING PRODUCT RETURNS > AND... > > > THERE IS MANY EVIDENCE THAT ADOBE CONTROL THE COURT > IN SAN JOSE AND > SUCCESSFULLY ELIMINATE MOST OF ITS RESELLERS AND GOT > PAID FOR IT. > > IT IS TIME TO INVESTIGATE ADOBE FOR THE FOLLOWING: > > * Whether Plaintiff Adobe's actions constitute a > breach of contract. > * Whether Plaintiff Adobe's actions breached the > covenant of good faith > and fair dealing and engaged in unfair business > practice by making the > inventories of its resellers, including defendants > virtually worthless. * > Whether Plaintiff Adobe's actions suddenly refusing > to accept or offer a > return/buyback policy of the old versions constitute > a === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From rabbi at quickie.net Mon Jul 23 16:12:46 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Abobe does the right thing: FWD: Adobe & EFF recommend release of Dmitry Sklyarov (fwd) Message-ID: For Immediate Release Contact for EFF: Will Doherty, EFF Online Activist / Media Relations, +1 415 436-9333 x111, +1 415 794-6064 (cell), free-dmitry@eff.org Robin Gross, EFF Staff Attorney - Intellectual Property, +1 415 436-9333 x112, +1 415 637-5310 (cell), robin@eff.org Contact for Adobe: Holly Campbell, Senior Corporate Public Relations Manager, +1 408 536-6401, campbell@adobe.com ADOBE, ELECTRONIC FRONTIER FOUNDATION CALL FOR RELEASE OF RUSSIAN PROGRAMMER San Jose, Calif. - July 23, 2001 Adobe Systems Incorporated (Nasdaq: ADBE) and the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) today jointly recommend the release of Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov from federal custody. Adobe is also withdrawing its support for the criminal complaint against Dmitry Sklyarov. "EFF praises Adobe for doing the right thing," said Shari Steele, EFF Executive Director. "We are pleased to see that Adobe has lived up to the high standard of integrity that has made the company successful. While we don't agree on every detail of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), we look forward to working together with Adobe to secure Dmitry's immediate release." "We strongly support the DMCA and the enforcement of copyright protection of digital content," said Colleen Pouliot, Senior Vice President and General Counsel for Adobe. "However, the prosecution of this individual in this particular case is not conducive to the best interests of any of the parties involved or the industry. ElcomSoft's Advanced eBook Processor software is no longer available in the United States, and from that perspective the DMCA worked. Adobe will continue to protect its copyright interests and those of its customers." Sklyarov was arrested July 16 on a criminal complaint filed by the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of California under the DMCA. ElcomSoft is the Moscow-based company employing Sklyarov. About Adobe Systems Incorporated Adobe Systems Incorporated (www.adobe.com) builds award winning software solutions for Network Publishing, including Web, print, video, wireless and broadband applications. Its graphic design, imaging, dynamic media and authoring tools enable customers to create, manage and deliver visually-rich, reliable content. Headquartered in San Jose, Calif., Adobe is the second largest PC software company in the U.S., with annual revenues exceeding $1.2 billion. About the Electronic Frontier Foundation The Electronic Frontier Foundation is the leading civil liberties organization working to protect rights in the digital world. Founded in 1990, EFF actively encourages and challenges industry and government to support free expression, privacy, and openness in the information society. EFF is a member-supported organization and maintains one of the most linked-to websites in the world: http://www.eff.org/ - end - From noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to Mon Jul 23 16:15:23 2001 From: noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to (robyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [DMITRY-PLAN] Abobe does the right thing: FWD: Adobe & EFF recommend release of Dmitry Sklyarov (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:00:03 -0700 From: Stanton McCandlish Reply-To: dmitry-plan@eff.org To: dmitry-plan@eff.org Subject: [DMITRY-PLAN] Abobe does the right thing: FWD: Adobe & EFF recommend release of Dmitry Sklyarov For Immediate Release Contact for EFF: Will Doherty, EFF Online Activist / Media Relations, +1 415 436-9333 x111, +1 415 794-6064 (cell), free-dmitry@eff.org Robin Gross, EFF Staff Attorney - Intellectual Property, +1 415 436-9333 x112, +1 415 637-5310 (cell), robin@eff.org Contact for Adobe: Holly Campbell, Senior Corporate Public Relations Manager, +1 408 536-6401, campbell@adobe.com ADOBE, ELECTRONIC FRONTIER FOUNDATION CALL FOR RELEASE OF RUSSIAN PROGRAMMER San Jose, Calif. - July 23, 2001 Adobe Systems Incorporated (Nasdaq: ADBE) and the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) today jointly recommend the release of Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov from federal custody. Adobe is also withdrawing its support for the criminal complaint against Dmitry Sklyarov. "EFF praises Adobe for doing the right thing," said Shari Steele, EFF Executive Director. "We are pleased to see that Adobe has lived up to the high standard of integrity that has made the company successful. While we don't agree on every detail of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), we look forward to working together with Adobe to secure Dmitry's immediate release." "We strongly support the DMCA and the enforcement of copyright protection of digital content," said Colleen Pouliot, Senior Vice President and General Counsel for Adobe. "However, the prosecution of this individual in this particular case is not conducive to the best interests of any of the parties involved or the industry. ElcomSoft's Advanced eBook Processor software is no longer available in the United States, and from that perspective the DMCA worked. Adobe will continue to protect its copyright interests and those of its customers." Sklyarov was arrested July 16 on a criminal complaint filed by the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of California under the DMCA. ElcomSoft is the Moscow-based company employing Sklyarov. About Adobe Systems Incorporated Adobe Systems Incorporated (www.adobe.com) builds award winning software solutions for Network Publishing, including Web, print, video, wireless and broadband applications. Its graphic design, imaging, dynamic media and authoring tools enable customers to create, manage and deliver visually-rich, reliable content. Headquartered in San Jose, Calif., Adobe is the second largest PC software company in the U.S., with annual revenues exceeding $1.2 billion. About the Electronic Frontier Foundation The Electronic Frontier Foundation is the leading civil liberties organization working to protect rights in the digital world. Founded in 1990, EFF actively encourages and challenges industry and government to support free expression, privacy, and openness in the information society. EFF is a member-supported organization and maintains one of the most linked-to websites in the world: http://www.eff.org/ - end - -- -- Stanton McCandlish mech@eff.org http://www.eff.org/~mech Technical Director/Webmaster Electronic Frontier Foundation voice: +1 415 436 9333 x105 fax: +1 415 436 9993 EFF, 454 Shotwell St. San Francisco CA 94110 USA From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Jul 23 16:27:19 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [mech@eff.org: [DMITRY-PLAN] Abobe does the right thing: FWD: Adobe & EFF recommend release of Dmitry Sklyarov] Message-ID: <20010723162719.K16178@zork.net> THIS BOOK CAN BE READ ALOUD ----- Forwarded message from Stanton McCandlish ----- Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:00:03 -0700 From: Stanton McCandlish Subject: [DMITRY-PLAN] Abobe does the right thing: FWD: Adobe & EFF recommend release of Dmitry Sklyarov For Immediate Release Contact for EFF: Will Doherty, EFF Online Activist / Media Relations, +1 415 436-9333 x111, +1 415 794-6064 (cell), free-dmitry@eff.org Robin Gross, EFF Staff Attorney - Intellectual Property, +1 415 436-9333 x112, +1 415 637-5310 (cell), robin@eff.org Contact for Adobe: Holly Campbell, Senior Corporate Public Relations Manager, +1 408 536-6401, campbell@adobe.com ADOBE, ELECTRONIC FRONTIER FOUNDATION CALL FOR RELEASE OF RUSSIAN PROGRAMMER San Jose, Calif. - July 23, 2001 Adobe Systems Incorporated (Nasdaq: ADBE) and the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) today jointly recommend the release of Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov from federal custody. Adobe is also withdrawing its support for the criminal complaint against Dmitry Sklyarov. "EFF praises Adobe for doing the right thing," said Shari Steele, EFF Executive Director. "We are pleased to see that Adobe has lived up to the high standard of integrity that has made the company successful. While we don't agree on every detail of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), we look forward to working together with Adobe to secure Dmitry's immediate release." "We strongly support the DMCA and the enforcement of copyright protection of digital content," said Colleen Pouliot, Senior Vice President and General Counsel for Adobe. "However, the prosecution of this individual in this particular case is not conducive to the best interests of any of the parties involved or the industry. ElcomSoft's Advanced eBook Processor software is no longer available in the United States, and from that perspective the DMCA worked. Adobe will continue to protect its copyright interests and those of its customers." Sklyarov was arrested July 16 on a criminal complaint filed by the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of California under the DMCA. ElcomSoft is the Moscow-based company employing Sklyarov. About Adobe Systems Incorporated Adobe Systems Incorporated (www.adobe.com) builds award winning software solutions for Network Publishing, including Web, print, video, wireless and broadband applications. Its graphic design, imaging, dynamic media and authoring tools enable customers to create, manage and deliver visually-rich, reliable content. Headquartered in San Jose, Calif., Adobe is the second largest PC software company in the U.S., with annual revenues exceeding $1.2 billion. About the Electronic Frontier Foundation The Electronic Frontier Foundation is the leading civil liberties organization working to protect rights in the digital world. Founded in 1990, EFF actively encourages and challenges industry and government to support free expression, privacy, and openness in the information society. EFF is a member-supported organization and maintains one of the most linked-to websites in the world: http://www.eff.org/ - end - -- -- Stanton McCandlish mech@eff.org http://www.eff.org/~mech Technical Director/Webmaster Electronic Frontier Foundation voice: +1 415 436 9333 x105 fax: +1 415 436 9993 EFF, 454 Shotwell St. San Francisco CA 94110 USA ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From nick at zork.net Mon Jul 23 16:31:13 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] locks Message-ID: <20010723163113.M13349@zork.net> Well, I just removed a number of stale locks from mailman's directory, and this is a test to see if python can get kicking again. No mail should be lost. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From snair at utstar.com Mon Jul 23 16:57:35 2001 From: snair at utstar.com (Sreeni R. Nair) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] We shall overcome ... Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723195632.00afe9a0@mail.utstar.com> http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45489,00.html !!! The ordinary man acts because he thinks his act will be profitable; the superior man, however, acts because he thinks his act is right. -- Confucius From richard.crocker at binarything.com Mon Jul 23 17:18:58 2001 From: richard.crocker at binarything.com (Richard Crocker) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe, Electronic Frontier Foundation Call for Release of Russian Programmer Message-ID: <4E8065D3AA8EDF49AA7F8628048DD0292C0BCF@mail.roundtable.com.au> SAN JOSE, Calif.- July 23, 2001 - Adobe Systems Incorporated and the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) today jointly recommended the release of Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov from federal custody. Press release: http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=190 Regards, Richard Crocker richard.crocker@binarything.com http://www.planetebook.com http://www.binarything.com BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network From izel at sulam.com Mon Jul 23 17:18:27 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A Few Words in the Aftermath Message-ID: First I would like to say, congratulations everyone! I would especially like to thank the members of the EFF who were involved in today's negotiations, and the hundreds of people who put their efforts somehow or another into today's one of 20+ rallies all over the world. We made Adobe look like a sore loser, an incompetent software peddler, and a jackbooted thug (all three of which it truly is) and Adobe management had no choice but to cave in, in order to watch out for its enlightened self-interest. Do not be misled. This is not Adobe doing the right thing. This is Adobe going into damage control mode in the only way possible given the current conditions. Current management is obviously no match for the recently retired CEO John Warnock, who would never have allowed events to escalate to this ridiculous point at the expense of Adobe's reputation and the goodwill of his customers. Current management has slaughtered the man's legacy, a legacy that took many many years to build. With that said, current management does not consist of idiots either, and they are trying to spin this situation in the best way possible and trying to survive. They did what they had to do and they had to say what they had to say. A bonus side effect of what they did and said is that the DOJ has lost its key witness in prosecuting Dmitry (making it very likely that the man will go free any day now) and also that Adobe is not likely to abuse the DMCA in this manner anytime soon. This is a victory in a small battle, but the war is far from over. The war will be wrought in the days after Dmitry's release, over the DMCA itself. Once again, congratulations everyone, and thanks. - izel From nick at zork.net Mon Jul 23 17:20:45 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] locks In-Reply-To: <20010723163113.M13349@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 04:31:13PM -0700 References: <20010723163113.M13349@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010723172045.A738@zork.net> Begin Nick Moffitt quotation: > Well, I just removed a number of stale locks from mailman's > directory, and this is a test to see if python can get kicking > again. No mail should be lost. Well, it turns out that my settings for the max open files on system were set back to 4096 when zork came up with the new motherboard. Looks like I didn't get that config file right after all. I upped the limit and Zork is churning away on those e-mails now. Should be about 200 in the queue from the past two hours. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Jul 23 17:28:11 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] free dmitry song. In-Reply-To: ; from cananian@lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 03:38:28PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010723172811.M16178@zork.net> C. Scott Ananian writes: > thanks again to Stephen Savitzky, who wrote the 'dmitry and dmca' song. > we sang it loudly and repeatedly in boston (w/ guitar) and it was a great > hit! I wish I were in Boston, where people actually know the tune of "Charlie on the MTA"! -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From deke at fullnestaviary.com Mon Jul 23 17:25:10 2001 From: deke at fullnestaviary.com (Chris Kotrla) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF & Adobe Call for Release of Dmitry Sklyarov Message-ID: Surely this must have been posted to the list by now, but I don't see it.. http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010723_eff_adobe_sklyarov_pr.html -Chris From free-sklyarov at nospam.wyrdwright.com Mon Jul 23 17:27:40 2001 From: free-sklyarov at nospam.wyrdwright.com (Barry King) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] View from Reuters Message-ID: <200107240027.UAA26836@wyrdwright.com> Latest from Reuters on the protest; No follow-up yet: http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml;?type=technologynews&StoryID=131178 BK From travel at elcomsoft.com Mon Jul 23 17:10:29 2001 From: travel at elcomsoft.com (Vladimir Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe, Electronic Frontier Foundation Call for Release of Russian Programmer Message-ID: <1326653886.20010724041029@elcomsoft.com> http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/010723/0667.html /Vladimir From james at jampee.com Mon Jul 23 17:06:27 2001 From: james at jampee.com (Jamie Nicolson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe, EFF Call for Dmitry Release (fwd) Message-ID: This is on John Young's cryptome web site: http://cryptome.org/dmitry-call.htm Can anyone else confirm this? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:44:55 -0700 From: John Young Reply-To: cypherpunks@ssz.com To: cypherpunks@lne.com Subject: CDR: Adobe, EFF Call for Dmitry Release >From a press release today: --- Adobe Systems Incorporated and the Electronic Frontier Foundation today jointly recommend the release of Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov from federal custody. Adobe is also withdrawing its support for the criminal complaint against Dmitry Sklyarov. "We strongly support the DMCA and the enforcement of copyright protection of digital content," said Colleen Pouliot, Senior Vice President and General Counsel for Adobe. "However, the prosecution of this individual in this particular case is not conducive to the best interests of any of the parties involved or the industry. ElcomSoft's Advanced eBook Processor software is no longer available in the United States, and from that perspective the DMCA worked. Adobe will continue to protect its copyright interests and those of its customers." -- From freesk at hackhawk.net Mon Jul 23 16:59:44 2001 From: freesk at hackhawk.net (hackhawk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Abobe does the right thing: FWD: Adobe & EFF recommend release of Dmitry Sklyarov Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723165838.00a3b430@localhost> Not sure if this was forwarded to the main list, so here it is!!!!! - hh >X-Sender: mech@mail.eff.org >Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:00:03 -0700 >From: Stanton McCandlish > >For Immediate Release > >Contact for EFF: > >Will Doherty, EFF Online Activist / Media Relations, > +1 415 436-9333 x111, +1 415 794-6064 (cell), > free-dmitry@eff.org > >Robin Gross, EFF Staff Attorney - Intellectual Property, > +1 415 436-9333 x112, +1 415 637-5310 (cell), > robin@eff.org > >Contact for Adobe: > >Holly Campbell, Senior Corporate Public Relations Manager, > +1 408 536-6401, > campbell@adobe.com > > >ADOBE, ELECTRONIC FRONTIER FOUNDATION CALL FOR RELEASE >OF RUSSIAN PROGRAMMER > >San Jose, Calif. - July 23, 2001 > >Adobe Systems Incorporated (Nasdaq: ADBE) and the >Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) today jointly >recommend the release of Russian programmer Dmitry >Sklyarov from federal custody. > >Adobe is also withdrawing its support for the criminal >complaint against Dmitry Sklyarov. > >"EFF praises Adobe for doing the right thing," said >Shari Steele, EFF Executive Director. "We are pleased >to see that Adobe has lived up to the high standard of >integrity that has made the company successful. While >we don't agree on every detail of the Digital >Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), we look forward to >working together with Adobe to secure Dmitry's >immediate release." > >"We strongly support the DMCA and the enforcement of >copyright protection of digital content," said Colleen >Pouliot, Senior Vice President and General Counsel for >Adobe. "However, the prosecution of this individual in >this particular case is not conducive to the best >interests of any of the parties involved or the >industry. ElcomSoft's Advanced eBook Processor >software is no longer available in the United States, >and from that perspective the DMCA worked. Adobe will >continue to protect its copyright interests and those >of its customers." > >Sklyarov was arrested July 16 on a criminal complaint >filed by the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District >of California under the DMCA. ElcomSoft is the >Moscow-based company employing Sklyarov. > > >About Adobe Systems Incorporated > >Adobe Systems Incorporated (www.adobe.com) builds >award winning software solutions for Network >Publishing, including Web, print, video, wireless and >broadband applications. Its graphic design, imaging, >dynamic media and authoring tools enable customers to >create, manage and deliver visually-rich, reliable >content. Headquartered in San Jose, Calif., Adobe is >the second largest PC software company in the U.S., >with annual revenues exceeding $1.2 billion. > >About the Electronic Frontier Foundation > >The Electronic Frontier Foundation is the leading >civil liberties organization working to protect rights >in the digital world. Founded in 1990, EFF actively >encourages and challenges industry and government to >support free expression, privacy, and openness in the >information society. EFF is a member-supported >organization and maintains one of the most linked-to >websites in the world: >http://www.eff.org/ > > >- end - > > >-- > > >-- >Stanton McCandlish mech@eff.org http://www.eff.org/~mech >Technical Director/Webmaster Electronic Frontier Foundation >voice: +1 415 436 9333 x105 fax: +1 415 436 9993 >EFF, 454 Shotwell St. San Francisco CA 94110 USA From peri at logorrhea.com Mon Jul 23 10:05:11 2001 From: peri at logorrhea.com (John Kew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Does the right thing, SLO Protest Information Message-ID: <0107231005110N.04275@moons.logorrhea.com> The local San Luis Obispo protests were on hold until we heard from the EFF/Adobe meeting. Adobe has just decided to recommend the release of Dmitry Sklyarov. It is now important that we focus our efforts on getting the Department of Justice to release Dmitry and to call attention to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). The protest in San Luis Obispo is tentatively scheduled for this Thursday at Farmers market. If you wish to participate, please join the local SLO-Protest mailing list by visiting: http://lists.geekresearch.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/slo-protest -John Many thanks to Josh Richards for hosting this mailing list. From rsperberg at yahoo.com Mon Jul 23 16:45:46 2001 From: rsperberg at yahoo.com (Roger Sperberg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: eBooks and the blind. In-Reply-To: <20010723160930.13650.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If you have a text-to-speech engine installed in your computer, it works with version 2 of the Adobe eBook Reader. The Reader itself only claims to provide Read Aloud features with Win2000, but I have Win 98 on one computer with the free TTS engine available at Microsoft and the feature works fine there. This is the first free Reader that includes TTS capabilities for eBooks (and all PDFs, which the eBook Reader will render -- and read aloud-- too). The eBook Reader is currently available only on the Windows platform. Note that any eBooks issued before last fall did not have the possibility of setting the Read Aloud feature to Yes, and they default to No (not allowed), so as not to inadvertently conflict with a publisher's having sold the audio rights to a title to another publisher. In English: the eBooks only have Read Aloud permissions if the publisher explicitly set it that way. Roger Sperberg -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Sam Gray Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 12:10 PM To: Daniel Richards; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: eBooks and the blind. > Does anyone know if text-to-speech programs will work with Adobe's > ebook reader? > You'd think with all this wizzbang technology that blind people would > finally be able to read these new ebooks. But if ebook won't let T2S > programs read the ebooks, well. > Does anyone know of any blind organisataions that might interested > in this? After all, if AEBPR does let blind people read ebooks, they > might want to voice up, so that it's not illegal for blind people to red > books. > > :P > It's an idea, anyway. Some proof either way would be nice. -- I think I read two articles on The Standard about the "this book cannot be read aloud" provisions of the license to "Alice's Adventures In Wonderland". As I understand it, Adobe allows publishers to disable eBook's internal T2S features. This was supposedly in response to publisher concerns that they had different licensing agreements to the audio reproductions of works to which they hold copyright. It all sounds far too silly to work to me, which says to the cynic in me that it must therefore be true. YMMV. ANYWAY, here's one of the articles: http://www.thestandard.com/article/0,1902,22377,00.html I'd be surprised if the eBook reader worked well, if at all, with screen readers. Of course, I'm not vision-impaired, so you might want to do a little footwork. I've worked with the Rose Resnick Lighthouse for the Blind in San Francisco (www.lighthouse-sf.org) and know of one in New York (www.lighthouse.org). In NZ, there's the Royal NZ Foundation for the Blind (www.rnzfb.org.nz). There are a number of public-domain texts available in Adobe's eBook format that don't cost anything, so a few hours' experimentation with a screen reader should yield you an answer. I'd do it myself, but I'm working on other things... ;> Hope this helps. ===== "They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's some kind of federal program." - George W. Bush, St. Charles, Mo., Nov. 2, 2000 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From warthawg at ecpi.com Mon Jul 23 16:58:27 2001 From: warthawg at ecpi.com (Joe Barr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe says free Dmitri Message-ID: <20010723185827.2d7c76f5.warthawg@ecpi.com> http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45489,00.html -- #====================================================# # Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! Free Sklyarov! # #====================================================# From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 23 17:34:30 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] It's Not Over Till Dmitry Goes Free... Message-ID: <878zhfmag9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> ...and even then it's not -really- over. I'm interested to see what the next few hours will bring -- press coverage, DOJ response, etc. etc. Reckless optimism envisions pictures at some point soon of Dmitry re-united with his family... Reckless pessimism has the DOJ bucking and continuing the prosecution all alone. Who knows? But there is one thing that should go without saying: we fukken r0X0r. To everyone who organized a protest, stood holding a sign in blistering heat (make mental note: never leave San Francisco city limits ever again), contacted the press, and did the deeds that had to be done: congratulations. To everyone at the EFF who finessed this move: congratulations. There must have been some god-like negotiators up there... I've never seen a press release that combines two such disparate points of view in a single conclusion. Comparing it to the (removed) message they had up earlier is a monument to your work. Hooray! We live in interesting times... can't wait to hear from the Feds. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From andrea at gravitt.org Mon Jul 23 17:37:43 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A Few Words in the Aftermath Message-ID: I am sad I was not able to attend any of the protests, but it was a wonderful thing to see. Now to celebrate and rest and start up for the real fight: the DMCA. Our Russian friend is not out of jail yet, although the case against him has lost it's star witness. But as long as the DMCA is still law in the US, this will happen again. I hope that many people will at minimum stay subscribed to the announcements list. There is still a lot of work to be done. This effort is practically instant gratification by comparison. Andrea From rabbi at quickie.net Mon Jul 23 17:37:54 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] International law and U.S. v. Sklyarov In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723173505.02507ec0@mail.well.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote: > At 04:37 PM 7/23/01 -0500, Joe Barr wrote: > >Perhaps his presentation at Defcon was sufficient for the conditions of > >"otherwise traffic"? > > > >That would put the commission of the crime in the US, not Russia. > > Perhaps if Defcon reimburses speakers, or it was part of a broader business > trip? *shrug* We'll see the court documents soon enough, I suspect. Blackhat pays speakers, but the most a DEFCON speaker gets is free admission. --Len, DEFCON 9 Speaker. From rabbi at quickie.net Mon Jul 23 17:39:58 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Missing list mail In-Reply-To: <20010723172811.M16178@zork.net> Message-ID: For those of you looking for the missing list mail, you can catch up by viewing the archives: http://www.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/2001-July/date.html From jstyre at jstyre.com Mon Jul 23 17:41:12 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe, EFF Call for Dmitry Release (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010723173947.06311ef8@earthlink.net> At 05:06 PM 7/23/2001 -0700, Jamie Nicolson wrote: >This is on John Young's cryptome web site: > >http://cryptome.org/dmitry-call.htm > >Can anyone else confirm this? Yes. It went out to EFF's press list before going up on their site, but it's there now. http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010723_eff_adobe_sklyarov_pr.html >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:44:55 -0700 >From: John Young >Reply-To: cypherpunks@ssz.com >To: cypherpunks@lne.com >Subject: CDR: Adobe, EFF Call for Dmitry Release > > >From a press release today: > >--- > >Adobe Systems Incorporated and the Electronic Frontier >Foundation today jointly recommend the release of Russian >programmer Dmitry Sklyarov from federal custody. > >Adobe is also withdrawing its support for the criminal >complaint against Dmitry Sklyarov. > >"We strongly support the DMCA and the enforcement of >copyright protection of digital content," said Colleen >Pouliot, Senior Vice President and General Counsel for >Adobe. "However, the prosecution of this individual in >this particular case is not conducive to the best >interests of any of the parties involved or the >industry. ElcomSoft's Advanced eBook Processor >software is no longer available in the United States, >and from that perspective the DMCA worked. Adobe will >continue to protect its copyright interests and those >of its customers." > >-- > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Jul 23 17:42:08 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723124231.00ae9d20@mail.utstar.com>; from snair@utstar.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 12:44:33PM -0400 References: <20010723092302.I16178@zork.net> <008601c11319$9aa80fa0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> <20010722160244.B29065@npl.uiuc.edu> <008601c11319$9aa80fa0$0600a8c0@monkeyking> <5.0.2.1.0.20010723120402.00abf950@mail.utstar.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010723121627.00ab36e8@mail.utstar.com> <20010723092302.I16178@zork.net> <5.0.2.1.0.20010723124231.00ae9d20@mail.utstar.com> Message-ID: <20010723174208.O16178@zork.net> Sreeni R. Nair writes: > Exactly! Also, none of my favorite publishers (O'Reilly, Addison-Wesley) > seem to be members of AAP. In any case, after Seth's exhortation, I have > sent a letter to the Harvard University Press. Thanks, I've noted that on my page. I do think the academic publishers will be open to recognizing the harms of the DMCA. I've suggested that some people physically go to the University of California Press in person (maybe just because I actually know where it is, unlike other university presses which may exist). -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From andrea at gravitt.org Mon Jul 23 17:42:24 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] free dmitry song. Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:28, Seth David Schoen wrote: >I wish I were in Boston, where people actually know the tune of >"Charlie on the MTA"! I have seen so many filks of that tune, I recognized it and was humming along before I noticed the reference to the original. It was many years before I even knew the proper name of it. That thing gets around. I wish someone had recorded it. Andrea From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 23 17:48:04 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A Few Words in the Aftermath In-Reply-To: ; from andrea@gravitt.org on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 08:37:43PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010723174804.Z98211@networkcommand.com> I just wanted to suggest that you all sign up for the DMCA Discuss mailing list. http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss Also, feel free to submit news, links, papers, etc. to: http://www.anti-dmca.org We need to keep the momentum going and get Dmitry out and the law repealed! Also, the TV media is spinning the story as, "Russian arrested for something legal in his country." That is not the issue. The DMCA is, which is also part of a treaty with other countries. Furthermore, we need to the right to audit security on these types of devices On 23-Jul-2001, Andrea wrote: > I am sad I was not able to attend any of the protests, but it was a > wonderful thing to see. > > Now to celebrate and rest and start up for the real fight: the DMCA. Our > Russian friend is not out of jail yet, although the case against him has > lost it's star witness. But as long as the DMCA is still law in the US, > this will happen again. > > I hope that many people will at minimum stay subscribed to the > announcements list. There is still a lot of work to be done. This effort is > practically instant gratification by comparison. > > Andrea > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From novns at bsn.irk.ru Mon Jul 23 18:47:38 2001 From: novns at bsn.irk.ru (Nick S. Novikov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release References: <010501c1139b$ecb184c0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> <20010723203339.A11761@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <016d01c113e2$9ee6b160$0b03010a@novns> From: "Tom" Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 2:33 AM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release > > Apologies if this has already been posted. This makes Adobe's position painfully clear. > > > > http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/dmca.html > > typo or pulled? I get a 404 on that page. http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/20010723dcma. html ======= Nick S. Novikov novns@bsn.irk.ru ICQ UIN: 29557357 From nick at zork.net Mon Jul 23 17:51:35 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] locks In-Reply-To: <20010723172045.A738@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 05:20:45PM -0700 References: <20010723163113.M13349@zork.net> <20010723172045.A738@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010723175135.J738@zork.net> Begin Nick Moffitt quotation: > Well, it turns out that my settings for the max open files on > system were set back to 4096 when zork came up with the new > motherboard. Looks like I didn't get that config file right after > all. Or, as one of my users likes to say, "Nick was too cheap to pick up enough file descriptors at Fry's." -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Jul 23 17:51:41 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:02:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release In-Reply-To: <016101c11396$c7d2aee0$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com>; from andrea@gravitt.org on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 12:41:25PM -0400 References: <016101c11396$c7d2aee0$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> Message-ID: <20010723175141.P16178@zork.net> Andrea writes: > >I wish that people would take even half the energy they're currently > >putting into writing to the ACM, and dedicate it to writing to other > >AAP members, too. > > Yes, that is also a good idea. Personally, I am starting with ACM because I > am a member. That is a really large handle to grab them by. > > Perhaps it would be useful to list some of the other member organizations > that folks here might be associated with. I still think it is extremely important to get publishers aware of what's being done in their name. Clearly not all publishers support the extension of copyright this way; it's really crucial that they become aware of some of the issues, and the problems with the DMCA. Taking out the six publishers who have been contacted by people I know of, we have left at http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/publishers.html the following (with a couple of added notes): Addicus Books, Inc. Adobe Systems Inc. [Adobe should be ashamed to belong to a trade group that supported Mr. Sklyarov's arrest!] Al-Basheer Publications and Translations Algora Publishing American Anthropological Association American Association for the Advancement of Science American Association of Community Colleges American Chemical Society American Dental Association Publishing Company, Inc. American Foundation for the Blind American Geophysical Union American Medical Association American Medical Publishers Association American Psychiatric Press, Inc. American Water Works Association Apex ePublishing Data Services Appraisal Institute Arte Publico Press Arthur Andersen & Co. Association of Research Libraries ASTM - American Society For Testing Materials Axiom Technologies/KnowledgeTrack Corp. B Banta Company Barrett Kendall Publishing Barricade Books, Inc. Begell House, Inc. Berkery, Noyes & Co. Bernan Press Bell & Howell Information and Learning Company Blair, John F., Publisher Booklight, Inc. Book Builders, Inc. Books24x7.com, Inc. Book Partners, Inc. Bookspan Booktech.com Bowes & Associates, Inc. Bowtie Press Bradley-Carroll Publishing Break Through Publications, Inc. Brown Publishing Network, Inc. Bryan Edwards Publications The Brookings Institution Business Horizons, Inc. Butte Publications, Inc. C Cadmus Journal Services Cambridge University Press Catch Word CAST Capitol Books Center for Strategic & International Studies Caxton Press Champion Press, Ltd. The C.J. Krehbeil Company Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory Press Columbia University Press Commerical Publication Network Congressional Quarterly Books Cornell Maritime Press Cornell University Press Council on Foreign Relations Press Council on Library and Information Resources COVER Publishing Co. CSLI Publications [at Stanford University] D Dana Press, The David R. Godine, Inc. Data Recognition Corporation Davis Publications, Inc. DDS Southwest Deloitte & Touche Dharma Publishing E Educational Testing Service Elsevier Science Inc. Elwood eBooks ETS K12 Works Erica House F The Feminist Press First Church of Christ, Scientist Focus Publishing/R. Pullins Company, Inc. Focused Learning, Ltd. Fouque Publishers, Inc Fordham University Press Fraser Williams Fromm International Publishing Corp. G Gallaudet University Press [a university for the deaf] Gemstar International/ Softbook Press, Inc. Geo Society The Genesis Press, Inc. Gibbs Smith Publishers Glassbook, Inc. [doesn't exist any more] Globe Pequot Press, Inc. Grove/Atlantic, Inc. Grove's Dictionaries H Haiduke Press Hallawood & Company Publications, Inc. Hamilton House Publishers, Ltd. Hammond, Inc. The Hampton-Brown Company, Inc. Hannacroix Creek Books, Inc. Harcourt, Inc. Harlequin Enterprises Ltd. HarperCollins Publishers * Avon Books * William Morrow & Co., Inc. Harry N. Abrams Harvard Business School Press Health Affairs/Project Hope Hearst Book Group Henry Holt & Co. Highsmith Press Hispanex, Inc. Houghton Mifflin Co. Howard University Press Humanics Publishing Group Human Factors and Ergonomics Society Hyperion I Ibook.com IASP Press/International Association for the Study of Pain Impact Publishers, Inc. Industrial Press Information Plus Ingram Book Company The Institute, Inc. Institute for International Economics Institute for International Education The Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, Inc. (IEEE) Institute for Scientific Information Interactive Knowledge (iKnow), Inc. International Life Sciences Institute J J. A. Majors Company The Johns Hopkins University Press John Wiley & Sons, Inc. J. Paul Getty Trust Publications K Kaeden Corporation Kinokuniya Publications Service of N.Y. Co., Ltd. Kirchoff/Wohlberg, Inc. Knovel.com KPMG Peat Marwick LLP L Langensheidt Publishers, Inc. The Lehigh Press, Inc. Liberty Fund, Inc. The Library of Congress Publishing Office [uniquely accountable to the public] Light Technology Publishing Lindenmeyr Book Publishing Papers Logotek, Ltd. Louisiana State University Press Lynne Rienner Publishers, Inc. M MacAdam/Cage Publishing Inc. Mage Publishers Inc. Management Concepts, Incorporated Market Data Retrieval Massachusetts Medical Society/New England Journal of Medicine The Mazer Corporation The McGraw-Hill Companies Media DNA Mental Interactive Systems Metro Teaching and Learning Company Mibrary.com Inc. Microbook International Microsoft Corporation [makes an eBook reader with a DRM system!] Mid-Atlantic Equity Consortium, Inc. Midland Information Resources The MIT Press Moseley Associates, Inc. MPI Media Group/WPA Film Library N National Academy Press National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors, Inc. National Computer Systems, Inc. National Education Standards National Geographic Society National Learning Corp. National Publishing Co. National Science Teachers Association (NSTA) Nature America New England Journal of Medicine NetLibrary The New Press New Park Press New York Academy of Sciences The New York Botanical Garden New York University Press Newmarket Press Northeastern University Press O Oak Knoll Press OCLC Online Computer Library Center The Overlook Press Oxford University Press P Pacific Data Conversion Corporation Pan American Health Organizations Pangaea Pathfinder Press PBD, Inc. Pearson Education * Penguin Putnam, Inc. Pelican Publishing Co., Inc. The Pennsylvania State University Press Peter Li Education Group P. H. Glatfelter Company Phoenix Color Corp. Photo-Documentary Press, Inc. Pinnacle Education Associates, Inc. Princeton University Press Pruett Publishing PubEasy.com Publish One, Inc. Publisher's Group Incorporated The Publisher's Partnership Publishers Resource Group, Inc. The Publishing Law Center Purdue University Press Q The Quarasan Group, Inc. Quebecor Printing Book Group R Rainbow Books, Inc. Rand Random House, Inc. Reader's Digest Association Real Time Enterprises, LLC Recording for the Blind and Dyslexic Reciprocal, Inc. Reed Reference Publishing Regatta Press Limited Resources for the Future/RFF Press Rights Market Inc. Rockefeller University Press Rowman and Littlefield Publishing Group * Scarecrow Press * University Press of America * AltaMira Press * Derrydale Press * Lexington Books R.R. Bowker R. R. Donnelley & Sons Co./Doubleday Direct RSG Systems, Inc. Rutgers University Press S Sanford C. Bernstein Co. Santillana USA Publishing Co., Inc. Scholar One, Inc. Scholastic, Inc. Scientific American / St. Martin's College Publishing Group Scovill Paterson Inc. / Primary Eyecare Communications, Inc. Seascape Press, Inc. The Sengstack Foundation Seven Locks Press SGI-USA Sheridan House, Inc. Signal Media of Arkansas, Inc. DBA Simba Information Simon & Schuster Smart Business Publishing Society of Cable Telecommunications Engineers Software Reproduction Technologies, Inc. Soho Press Southwest School Book Depository, Inc. Springer Publishing Co. Springer-Verlag New York, Inc. Spirit Soars, Inc. Stanford University Press Steerforth Press St. Martin's Press String Letter Publishing Sundance Publishing Sunhawk.com Corporation Surrey Books Sutton Publishing T Teachers College Press Texere LLC Texterity, Inc. Textorder.com Thames & Hudson, Inc. Thomson Learning, Inc. Tichenor Publishing Timberwolf Press Time Warner Trade Publishing Tin House Literary Quarterly Todd Publishing Inc. Tribune Education Turtle Books U UAHC Press [the Union of American Hebrew Congregations] University of California Press University of Chicago Press University Press of Florida The University of Hawaii Press The University of North Carolina Press, Inc. University of Oklahoma Press University of Science and Philosophy University of South Carolina Press University of Tennessee Press University of Texas Press University Press of Kentucky V V! Studios Vantage Press, Inc. Veronis, Suhler & Associates, Inc. Versaware, Inc. Virginia Museum of Fine Arts Virtual Publishing Group, Inc. Visionary Systems Incorporated Von Hoffman Press VSP Books Vyuo.com W Walter de Gruyter, Inc. Weatherhill, Inc. WebCT, Inc. Wesleyan University Press Whitston Publishing Company, Inc. Wil McKnight Associates, Inc. William K. Bradford Publishing Co. Willow Creek Press, Inc. Wizeup Digital Editions Workman Publishing World Bank Group Worth Publishers, Inc. Y Yale University Press Z Zephyr Press Zooba.com -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From kalyan at exocore.com Mon Jul 23 18:03:14 2001 From: kalyan at exocore.com (Kalyan Varma) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (no subject) Message-ID: There has been at update at Wired news http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45489,00.html - -kalyan From kalyan at exocore.com Mon Jul 23 18:04:17 2001 From: kalyan at exocore.com (Kalyan Varma) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Wired Update Message-ID: There has been a update at http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45489,00.html - -kalyan From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Mon Jul 23 17:55:42 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Moscow protest: when & where. Message-ID: <058501c113db$60afbce0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, All! == == We gather at July, 25, 11:00 in the small part by address: Kudrinskaja ploshad, 1. Guidings: metro "Barrikadnaja", you'll see high building. At the left of this building is this small park. At 12:00 we will go to the American Embassy, where until 13:00 we plan to stay with signs and give out flyers. Take with yourself signs to defend Dmitry, against FBI and DMCA, cool T-Shirts and so on for you and your new friends. Contacts: hscool@netclub.ru +7(095)162-4767 Arvi == == - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From admin at seattle-chat.com Mon Jul 23 17:57:03 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release In-Reply-To: <016d01c113e2$9ee6b160$0b03010a@novns> Message-ID: Now we march onto the Fed Buildings! -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Nick S. Novikov Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 6:48 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release From: "Tom" Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 2:33 AM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release > > Apologies if this has already been posted. This makes Adobe's position painfully clear. > > > > http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/dmca.html > > typo or pulled? I get a 404 on that page. http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/20010723dcma. html ======= Nick S. Novikov novns@bsn.irk.ru ICQ UIN: 29557357 _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From mickeym at mindspring.com Mon Jul 23 12:52:02 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (mickeym) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release References: Message-ID: <3B5C8062.39C59774@mindspring.com> Here's the text, the attached file has the html structure with images. mickeym =============================================== Adobe comments on government action under DMCA Adobe's goal in the Elcomsoft case is to help protect the copyrighted works of authors, artists, developers and publishers. Adobe reported this suspected eBook authors' copyright violation to the U.S. Attorney's office. Based on the information gathered in the investigation (see affidavit ), the U.S. Government chose to take legal action to stop the sale of the for-profit security cracking code, and unilaterally decided to arrest Dmitry Sklyarov. Elcomsoft found a security weakness and made no effort to communicate what it found to Adobe. Instead, the company distributed a software product for profit that can be used to compromise copyrighted works in the United States, violating U.S. law. Adobe took every measure likely to be successful to get Elcomsoft to cease and desist. Adobe's legal department sent letters to Elcomsoft, their ISP and their credit card clearing house used to offer these products for sale. Adobe forwarded the case to the U.S. Attorney's office only after Elcomsoft failed to respond and/or cease and desist. Our goal has been to stop the sale of the program in the U.S. Contrary to some reports, the issue is not that Adobe alerted the U.S. government about an expert exposing security weaknesses. In fact, Adobe encourages its customers and the software community, including White Hat security experts, to provide feedback on the performance of its software in order to make improvements. Adobe's concern is that a "digital lock pick" is being distributed to enable others to compromise the copyrighted works of authors, artists, developers and publishers, which is why Adobe alerted the U.S. Attorney's office. Corporate Q: How are your customers, the publishing community, responding to this? A: The Electronic Frontier Foundation considers themselves a leading civil liberties organization that works to protect right in the digital world. We are in constant communication with our customers who are also concerned about issues of privacy and protection of digital property. There is strong support from the publishing community, as evidenced by the statement from the American Association of Publishers. While the laws to enforce the protection of digital media are in their infancy, we believe they are based on the same principles as traditional media?protect the copyrights of authors, artists, developers and publishers while balancing the right to fair use. Q: What's going on with the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF)? A: We are engaged in discussions with the EFF to work together to address this situation. We believe a mutual frank discussion of how best to resolve the current issues will benefit Adobe and EFF. Q: As a result of this case, what is Adobe doing to strengthen the security of its products? A: Security is an ongoing effort at Adobe. The company is committed to strengthening the security of its products by using sophisticated, industry-standard levels of software encryption and working with the software community, including White Hat security experts, to incorporate features to advance the quality of the product. Legal questions Q: Elcomsoft claims that eBooks in Adobe PDF are insecure and that the encryption is weak, including ROT-13 which is notorious for its lack of security. Are those claims true? A: Adobe has never sold ROT-13 as a security product. Adobe incorporates sophisticated, industry-standard levels of software encryption to make our products difficult to compromise. However, no software is 100% secure from a determined, illegal attack. When used legally and in its intended fashion, the Acrobat eBook Reader secures eBooks purchased by locking the eBook to the hardware from which it was purchased. The Elcomsoft software circumvents the security afforded by our software to protect copyrighted works. Q: Elcomsoft claims that their software provided a service to Adobe and publishers by uncovering a security weakness. What is Adobe's position? A:. Contrary to some reports, the issue is not that Adobe alerted the U.S. government about an expert exposing security weaknesses. In fact, Adobe encourages its customers and the software community, including White Hat security experts, to provide feedback on the performance of its software in order to make improvements. Adobe's concern is that a "digital lock pick" is being distributed to enable others to compromise the copyrighted works of authors, artists, developers and publishers. Q: Elcomsoft claims that it developed the software in order to let users copy the eBooks they purchased onto multiple computers. Doesn't the Acrobat eBook Reader violate the Fair Use Act? A: Adobe engineered the Acrobat eBook Reader to exchange eBooks like printed books. The Acrobat eBook Reader does allow customers to move the eBooks they purchase between computers through its lending and giving features. If the publishers enable these features, the buyer of an eBook can loan or transfer to another Acrobat eBook Reader on the network. To the best of Adobe's knowledge, the Acrobat eBook Reader is the only product that allows for the lending and giving of eBooks. In addition, the Acrobat eBook Reader allows for eBook printing and copying. The text-to-speech (or the "Read Aloud" feature) runs on Windows 2000 and the Macintosh?two operating systems that provide the functionality. Lending, printing, copying, giving and text-to-speech are permissions enabled by the publisher. The Elcomsoft software product violates the permissions set by the publisher to protect the copyrighted works of artists, authors, and publishers making the copyrighted content available for unlimited duplication and distribution. Keep in mind, the eBook market is an emerging one. Adobe and several other technology companies and publishing houses are exploring ways to protect copyrights and allow for fair use. Q: What if I want to carry my eBook on a handheld device? What solution does Adobe provide? A: Today, the Acrobat eBook Reader is only available for Windows and Macintosh desktop and laptop computers. Adobe is working with standards organizations and device manufacturers on a digital rights management (DRM) scheme that allows for the transfer of copyrighted materials from desktops and laptops to handheld devices. Q: What if a user purchases a new computer? What happens to the eBooks they own? A: eBooks that were legitimately purchased with the Acrobat eBook Reader can be reactivated by calling Adobe technical support. Legal questions Q: What did Elcomsoft do? A: By developing a tool that circumvents our encryption software and then making and selling it in the U.S., the government believes that Elcomsoft violated U.S. copyright law (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) and the rights of authors, artists, developers and publishers. Q: When did Adobe become aware of the Elcomsoft violation? A: Our awareness of Elcomsoft was elevated in June when we learned that they developed a "digital lock pick" specifically targeted to decrypt our customers' copyrighted eBooks and it was marketed and sold online in the United States. Q: What is Adobe's goal in this action against Elcomsoft? A: Let's be clear that the U.S. Government is pursuing this case as a crime, acting independently of Adobe to enforce U.S. copyright law (the Digital Millennium Copyright Act). Adobe fully supports the U.S. Government's decision to investigate the potential violation of U.S. copyright laws by Elcomsoft and has cooperated with their investigations with their investigation. Adobe's goal is to help protect the copyrighted works of authors, artists, developers and publishers, and to stop the sale of this cracking software in the U.S. Q: Why was criminal verses civil action pursued? A: As with many parts of Asia, Russia is a nation where civil-based anti-piracy measures have little effect. Once Adobe had exhausted the few civil steps likely to have success, we forwarded the case to the U.S. authorities. The government is pursuing the case as a criminal violation. Q: Did Adobe instigate the U.S. Government's investigation of Elcomsoft? A: Adobe alerted the U.S. Attorney's office to investigate the activities of Elcomsoft regarding the possible illegal distribution of its "Advanced eBook Processor." Based on the information gathered in the investigation (see affidavit ), the U.S. Government chose to take legal action. Q: Why was Dmitry Sklyarov arrested after he presented at the DefCon-9 conference in Las Vegas? Isn't that a violation of free speech? A: Skylarov was not arrested for presenting a scholarly paper to a group of security experts. According to the press release issued by the FBI, Dmitry Sklyarov was arrested as the copyright holder of the "Advanced eBook Processor," a product distributed by his employer, Elcomsoft. He was arrested in connection to a charge of a "single count of trafficking in a product designed to circumvent copyright protection measures in violation of Title 17, United States Code, Section 12Ol(b)( l)(A). This is one of the first prosecutions in the United States under this statute, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA")." Q: Did Adobe order the arrest? A: Adobe did not order the arrest. That was the sole decision of the U.S. government. Adobe alerted the U.S. Attorney's office to investigate the activities of Elcomsoft regarding the possible illegal distribution of its "Advanced eBook Processor." Based on the information gathered in the investigation (see affidavit), the U.S. Government chose to take legal action. Q: Who says that the United States gets to impose its laws (specifically, the Digital Millenium Copyright Act) on individuals and businesses in other countries? A: Questions regarding the law and its enforcement in this case should be forwarded to the U.S. Attorney's office. Q: What will happen next? A: Any questions regarding this investigation should be forwarded to the U.S. Attorney's office. =============================================== "James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)" wrote: > > http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/dmca.html > > seems pulled > > did anyone save a copy? > > James S. Huggins > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: adobe.zip Type: application/x-zip-compressed Size: 29450 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010723/7c3d33a9/adobe.bin From free-sklyarov at onethumb.com Mon Jul 23 18:02:44 2001 From: free-sklyarov at onethumb.com (Don MacAskill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Need a place to host or mirror your protest pics/movies/reports/etc? Message-ID: <080601A7E1E43849B16592D2098E5FAA5D658E@mwnsrv01.Mightywords.com> I've got you covered. Email me (free-sklyarov@onethumb.com) and I'll stick your stuff up at www.freedmitry.org/mirror/ Oh, and I'd love to host anyone's quickie or in-depth reports about their protests. Feel free to email me or use the on-site Story Submission thingie. Plenty of bandwidth, we might be able to even withstand slashdot. (Not that we have to find out... :) Don From pablos at kadrevis.com Mon Jul 23 18:06:17 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] wow - the world is ending (fwd) Message-ID: <533282.995911577@[10.0.1.220]> I think this guy needs to be engaged in a lively discussion about fair use. Any takers? pablos. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Monday, July 23, 2001 5:51 PM -0400 From: "Spalding, Keith HAMOH" To: "'circularfile@boycottadobe.com'" Subject: wow - the world is ending You all are nuts!!!!! this guy is no more than a bank robber Lets see - I put my money in a safe. Someone figures out the security flaws of the safe, takes my money and then sells the information on how to break into the safe. Lets see - I buy home security for my house. Someone figures out the flaws and sells it to people. So all can break into my house. Give it a break geek freaks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From ercole at speakeasy.org Mon Jul 23 18:08:24 2001 From: ercole at speakeasy.org (ercole@speakeasy.org) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (no subject) Message-ID: <200107240108.f6O18Oo07877@littlebox.localdomain> ADOBE, ELECTRONIC FRONTIER FOUNDATION CALL FOR RELEASE OF RUSSIAN PROGRAMMER San Jose, Calif. - July 23, 2001 Adobe Systems Incorporated (Nasdaq: ADBE) and the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) today jointly recommend the release of Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov from federal custody. Adobe is also withdrawing its support for the criminal complaint against Dmitry Sklyarov. "EFF praises Adobe for doing the right thing," said Shari Steele, EFF Executive Director. "We are pleased to see that Adobe has lived up to the high standard of integrity that has made the company successful. While we don't agree on every detail of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), we look forward to working together with Adobe to secure Dmitry's immediate release." "We strongly support the DMCA and the enforcement of copyright protection of digital content," said Colleen Pouliot, Senior Vice President and General Counsel for Adobe. "However, the prosecution of this individual in this particular case is not conducive to the best interests of any of the parties involved or the industry. ElcomSoft's Advanced eBook Processor software is no longer available in the United States, and from that perspective the DMCA worked. Adobe will continue to protect its copyright interests and those of its customers." Sklyarov was arrested July 16 on a criminal complaint filed by the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of California under the DMCA. ElcomSoft is the Moscow-based company employing Sklyarov. From pablos at kadrevis.com Mon Jul 23 18:12:55 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] sales not security (fwd) Message-ID: <557161.995911975@[10.0.1.220]> Somebody want to reply to this guy? pablos. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Monday, July 23, 2001 11:06 AM -0500 From: Tony Underhill To: "'nicehair@boycottadobe.com'" Subject: sales not security If Mr. Sklyarov was interested in security, why is he selling his software? He is simply a criminal who was arrogant enough to think that he could come here, where his software is a crime, and get away again. Sorry, not the case, hope he gets what he deserves, he is not a martyr, simply a thief. Programming today is a race between software engineers stirring to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning. Unknown Tony Underhill Office Products Support Intern P-1 5-2293 (desk) 454-9463 (home) ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From pablos at kadrevis.com Mon Jul 23 18:21:54 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: So Sad In-Reply-To: <3B5C3349.F8F2E5CE@austin.rr.com> References: <3B5C3349.F8F2E5CE@austin.rr.com> Message-ID: <589499.995912514@[10.0.1.220]> We need another volunteer to write back to this guy: --On Monday, July 23, 2001 9:23 AM -0500 Marc Bech wrote: > You guys should be ashamed of yourself. You are nothing but hypocrites > and thugs yourselves, and no better people than Dimitry himself. But > then again, you probably revel in that, and have nothing better to do > with your creative talents. > > Dimitry is not just trying to circumvent a security loophole in the > eReader, his is trying to allow, for his own profit, the illegal copying > of eBooks. Passing around a book to a friend after one has read it is > one thing, because when your friend has it, you no longer do. Passing > around copies of a book, on-line or not, is illegal, because now there > are multiple copies of it. You are not just hitting the pocketbooks of > Adobe, but you are stealing from the authors and they're publishers. Do > you go out and purchase photocopies of hardcopy books too? > > It would be one thing to POINT out a flaw in the eReader to Adobe. > Dimitry went way beyond this to allow the illegal copying of software. > So, do you illegal copy any software that is purchased too? This is what > you are condoning. > > Dimitry is not pointing out a flaw for the sense of saving the planet's > computers from security hackers such that needs to be done with > Microsoft's operating system and Internet Exploder. Creating a loophole > in the eReader again ONLY allows the illegal copying of software, > nothing less. > > Touching picture of his family you put on your site too. Maybe Dimitry > should've considered his family and children more before he carried out > such a careless act of on-line terrorism. If he is so smart, maybe he > should've applied for a job at Adobe and done something positive. Too > late for that. > > YOU and Dimitry are the thugs. > > I boycottt everything YOU stand for. > > And yes, you are being hypocritical for calling for an Adobe boycott on > a website that was created with Adobe software. Pathetic actually. > > Marc > -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From ausage at ausage.com Mon Jul 23 18:21:24 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A Few Words in the Aftermath In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072321212401.20962@frankie> On July 23, 2001 08:37 pm, Andrea wrote: > Now to celebrate and rest and start up for the real fight: the DMCA. Our > Russian friend is not out of jail yet, although the case against him has > lost it's star witness. But as long as the DMCA is still law in the US, > this will happen again. Yes!!! Adobe ducked, but they haven't caved. Reading the press release carefully, Colleen Pouliot is saying that it's OK to let Dimitry go now because ElcomSoft has stopped selling the Advanced eBook Processor. This implies that the case never was about prosecuting a "criminal" but rather pressuring another company. The press release says, "Adobe is also withdrawing its support for the criminal complaint against Dimitry Sklyarov." For me, that's a very good start, but not enough. If they ever expect so see a dime of my money; if they want me to refrain from "dis'ing 'em" whenever their products are discussed; if they want to stop me from asking embarrasing questions whenever the demo the lastest and greatest to the professional developer in town; then they need to do much more. Until Adobe says, "We were wrong, we made a mistake, the EFF is right. We will fully support the fight to free Dimitry AND to repeal the DMCA, both morally and financially" I will not use their products op do business with them and will strive to the best of my abilities to convince other to do likewise. -- Ausage From pablos at kadrevis.com Mon Jul 23 18:28:57 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Mistake.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <614849.995912936@[10.0.1.220]> --On Monday, July 23, 2001 8:59 AM -0500 "Sebold, Richard" wrote: > I want to know more of the facts of this case before I boycott a company > whose products, as you yourself say, are excellent. Why are you afraid > of the judicial process? Let the case run its course. If you want to > raise money for his defense and support his family, do so. But I think > you are wrong in attacking Adobe before all the information is known. Possibly not enough information is known to you. We feel we know everything we need to: 1. The DMCA is unconstitutional legislation restricting fair use. 2. Adobe is using the DMCA to further their corporate interests at the expense of freedom. Freedom of Dmitry Sklyarov, and all Americans. Good luck catching up on the issues, if you disagree, you just haven't learned enough, keep reading! pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From ausage at ausage.com Mon Jul 23 18:25:07 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] wow - the world is ending (fwd) In-Reply-To: <533282.995911577@[10.0.1.220]> References: <533282.995911577@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <01072321250702.20962@frankie> On July 23, 2001 09:06 pm, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: > I think this guy needs to be engaged in a lively discussion about fair use. >> Lets see - I buy home security for my house. Someone figures out the >> flaws and sells it to people. So all can break into my house. This is legal and done all the time. In fact, in my community the police department will come, inspect your house and give you a list of "security problems needing correction" for free! Seems very similar to what Dimitry did. -- Andrew Lawrence Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Jul 23 18:29:27 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] wow - the world is ending (fwd) In-Reply-To: <533282.995911577@[10.0.1.220]>; from pablos@kadrevis.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 06:06:17PM -0700 References: <533282.995911577@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <20010723182927.U16178@zork.net> Pablos Kadrevis writes: > I think this guy needs to be engaged in a lively discussion about fair use. > > Any takers? > > pablos. > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > Date: Monday, July 23, 2001 5:51 PM -0400 > From: "Spalding, Keith HAMOH" > To: "'circularfile@boycottadobe.com'" > Subject: wow - the world is ending > > > You all are nuts!!!!! > > this guy is no more than a bank robber > > Lets see - I put my money in a safe. [...] > > ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- Mosler Inc. is, of course, a maker of ... safes. "When all you have is a hammer..." -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From pablos at kadrevis.com Mon Jul 23 18:30:25 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Welcome to America In-Reply-To: <3B5C2732.6C277053@sigi.com> References: <3B5C2732.6C277053@sigi.com> Message-ID: <620140.995913024@[10.0.1.220]> --On Monday, July 23, 2001 9:31 AM -0400 Arthur Brown wrote: > The laws apply to EVERYONE, and you intentionally broke one, much like > murder one. that's premeditated. > Who are you talking to? Dmitry? He's from Russia, and reverse engineering research is not illegal there! Open your brain and put something in there. pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 23 18:31:17 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slashdot Message-ID: <87ofqbkt96.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> So, if there's anyone on here from slashdot, I just want to say: nice coverage. Y'all have been really on top of the Free Dmitry movement, and don't think it's not appreciated. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From taral at taral.net Mon Jul 23 18:32:48 2001 From: taral at taral.net (Taral) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Habeas Corpus? Message-ID: <20010723203248.B10284@taral.net> You know, with all of the claims that Sklyarov was being held unreasonably, why did no-one avail themselves of the system which the US has to protect people against unlawful detainer: the writ of /habeas corpus/? -- Taral This message is digitally signed. Please PGP encrypt mail to me. "Any technology, no matter how primitive, is magic to those who don't understand it." -- Florence Ambrose -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010723/aec44be0/attachment.pgp From ilya at theIlya.com Mon Jul 23 18:33:02 2001 From: ilya at theIlya.com (Ilya Volynets) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] sales not security (fwd) In-Reply-To: <557161.995911975@[10.0.1.220]> References: <557161.995911975@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <01072318330201.12942@gateway> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > Date: Monday, July 23, 2001 11:06 AM -0500 > From: Tony Underhill > To: "'nicehair@boycottadobe.com'" > Subject: sales not security > > > If Mr. Sklyarov was interested in security, why is he selling his software? Well, I'd sudgested to you to read more on the case. Sklyarov was never selling his software, nor did he ever distributed it in US in any other way. The company, he works for did, but then what does it have to do with it's employees. At best, president of company (Katalov) had to be arrested. > He is simply a criminal who was arrogant enough to think that he could come > here, where his software is a crime, and get away again. He haven't commited any crime. Neither in US nor in Russia. He haven't violated any coyright (unless of course you have any evidence to prove othervice). > Sorry, not the > case, hope he gets what he deserves, he is not a martyr, simply a thief. I'm not even going to comment on this. > Programming today is a race between software engineers stirring to build > bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce > bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning. How does it relate to this case? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtc0FEACgkQtKh84cA8u2lfAgCgyby47Zo1MqNjU/9ZSjDqeWdw x9UAoK6vO+vtTBsOw5zEQUleeuX1BgKp =q9Z2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From izel at sulam.com Mon Jul 23 18:37:32 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: sales not security Message-ID: tony.underhill.lwi0@statefarm.com wrote: >If Mr. Sklyarov was interested in security, why is he selling his software? I had a chance to read your letter to boycottadobe.com and wanted to take the opportunity to answer your question. You are asking why Dmitry Sklyarov's employer sells password recovery and/or decryption software. (Your question is incorrectly worded, because it implies that Dmitry Sklyarov himself sells software, which he never has, in Russia, the US, or anywhere else. Mr. Sklyarov produces software under the employ of Elcomsoft, to whom the copyright of said software is then immediately transferred. Therefore, Mr. Sklyarov couldn't sell the software that he wrote even if he wanted to, because he no longer owns the copyright to it. But this is all beside the point - this has more to do with why Sklyarov's arrest is illegal even under the strictest interpretation of the DMCA.) To go back to your question, Elcomsoft sells password recovery and/or decryption software because its customers demand this sort of software. What kind of customer would demand password recovery and/or decryption software? They must be all criminals and crackers and pedophiles, right? In fact, Elcomsoft's client list includes some of the most esteemed intelligence agencies of the world, including the CIA, the FBI, and the KGB. Also, any citizen of Russia has the legal right to use this sort of software in order to interoperate or produce an archival backup - legally protected rights that no software corporation can take away. Until recently, American citizens have had these very same rights, until a law known as the DMCA - purchased by the software and entertainment industries from lawmakers who have forgotten their real job and responsibility to their constituents - made the exercise of these rights illegal. Today's victory gives us hope that Dmitry, who was illegally arrested to begin with, will hopefully soon go free and return to his family. But our larger purpose is to get the DMCA repealed. We cannot in good conscience pretend to be proper American citizens as long as a law remains on the books that is in direct violation of the First and Second Amendments. Thanks for listening. - izel From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 23 18:42:53 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A Few Words in the Aftermath In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87k80zkspu.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "A" == Andrea writes: A> Now to celebrate and rest and start up for the real fight: the A> DMCA. Our Russian friend is not out of jail yet, although the A> case against him has lost it's star witness. But as long as the A> DMCA is still law in the US, this will happen again. A> I hope that many people will at minimum stay subscribed to the A> announcements list. There is still a lot of work to be A> done. This effort is practically instant gratification by A> comparison. Oh my goodness! I'd be greatly surprised if people start unsubbing from this list. It'd be a mistake to think that the recent radio silence here was due to lack of interest rather than brutalized inodes on zork.net. If it's not clear that Dmitry is not yet out of jail: Dmitry is not yet out of jail! Declaring total victory and walking away, or concentrating on other fights, would be premature in the extreme! *I'm* starting to wonder what our next move is. Paranoid as I am, I keep coming back to the thought that this PR is tactical by Adobe to keep protest stories off the local TV news. With luck, they'll stick to their agreement and make whatever communications are necessary with the DoJ to show their lack of support. But even if Adobe is out of the picture (yay! One front to fight on), we still have to get Dmitry out of jail. I think one of the reasons that we took on Adobe so early here is that they are the weakest link and have the most to luse from bad publicity (which is one of the few things we can dish out in large quantities). I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe we should not be premature in packing up the tents and going home. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Mon Jul 23 18:34:13 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] wow - the world is ending (fwd) References: <533282.995911577@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <3B5CD095.3A95804E@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Information is not money, nor is it a home. Seth Johnson > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > From: "Spalding, Keith HAMOH" > > Lets see - I put my money in a safe. Someone figures out the security > flaws of the safe, takes my money and then sells the information on how to > break into the safe. > Lets see - I buy home security for my house. Someone figures out the flaws > and sells it to people. So all can break into my house. From kalyan at exocore.com Mon Jul 23 18:53:14 2001 From: kalyan at exocore.com (Kalyan Varma) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: sales not security In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Izel Sulam wrote: > Elcomsoft's client list includes some of the most esteemed > intelligence agencies of the world, including the CIA, the FBI, and the > KGB. You forget to mention Adobe. Adobe also bought the software from Elcomsoft on June 26th. Now thats ironic ;) - -kalyan From mlc67 at columbia.edu Mon Jul 23 18:51:39 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boston protest a success! In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723160511.00a0ad20@localhost>; from freesk@hackhawk.net on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 04:06:26PM -0700 References: <3B5C78A3.F431C0F9@sethf.com> <15196.21901.652306.31937@belboz> <3B5C78A3.F431C0F9@sethf.com> <20010723122639.E98211@networkcommand.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010723160511.00a0ad20@localhost> Message-ID: <20010723185139.B12369@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Wait.... is that the song from last summer's courthouse protest at the 2600 trial? If it is, we've been searching for footage of that since then, so I'd really appreciate it if anyone happened to tape it. mike On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 04:06:26PM -0700, hackhawk wrote: > AHAHAHA.... This guy on TechTV just sung a song to the tune of YMCA, but > was talking about the DMCA. It was quite entertaining. He's talking about > Dmitry right now!!! -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // cell: +1 (646) 382-7220 // "facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - aldous huxley -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010723/ab72226f/attachment.pgp From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Jul 23 18:55:23 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [smcgrew@kntv.com: dmitry interview on San Francisco TV] Message-ID: <20010723185523.Y16178@zork.net> Bounced as non-subscriber post, but time-sensitive and interesting to people here, I suspect. ----- Forwarded message from smcgrew@kntv.com ----- From: smcgrew@kntv.com To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: dmitry interview on San Francisco TV Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:22:16 -0700 To those who asked, there will be more of the (taped) interview w/Sklyarov tonight on the wb20 news at 10 in San Francisco. We are efforting a new interview with him.. now that he's found out the good news. ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From warthawg at ecpi.com Mon Jul 23 19:02:01 2001 From: warthawg at ecpi.com (Joe Barr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:04 2005 Subject: Fw: Re: [free-sklyarov] Adobe press release Message-ID: <20010723210201.4d907644.warthawg@ecpi.com> So, the Ayatollah Adobe has spoken, so it must be. Death to those who would read the word aloud! On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:52:02 -0400 mickeym wrote: > > Here's the text, the attached file has the html structure with images. > mickeym > > =============================================== > > Adobe comments on government action under DMCA > Adobe's goal in the Elcomsoft case is to help protect the copyrighted > works of authors, artists, developers and publishers. Adobe reported > this suspected eBook authors' copyright violation to the U.S. > Attorney's office. Based on the information gathered in the > investigation > (see affidavit ), the U.S. Government chose to take legal action to > stop > the sale of the for-profit security cracking code, and unilaterally > decided to arrest Dmitry Sklyarov. > > Elcomsoft found a security weakness and made no effort to > communicate what it found to Adobe. Instead, the company distributed > a software product for profit that can be used to compromise > copyrighted works in the United States, violating U.S. law. Adobe > took every measure likely to be successful to get Elcomsoft to cease > and desist. Adobe's legal department sent letters to Elcomsoft, their > ISP and their credit card clearing house used to offer these products > for sale. Adobe forwarded the case to the U.S. Attorney's office only > after Elcomsoft failed to respond and/or cease and desist. Our goal has > > been to stop the sale of the program in the U.S. > > Contrary to some reports, the issue is not that Adobe alerted the U.S. > government about an expert exposing security weaknesses. In fact, > Adobe encourages its customers and the software community, > including White Hat security experts, to provide feedback on the > performance of its software in order to make improvements. Adobe's > concern is that a "digital lock pick" is being distributed to enable > others > to compromise the copyrighted works of authors, artists, developers > and publishers, which is why Adobe alerted the U.S. Attorney's office. > > Corporate > > Q: How are your customers, the publishing community, responding to > this? > A: The Electronic Frontier Foundation considers themselves a leading > civil liberties organization that works to protect right in the digital > world. > We are in constant communication with our customers who are also > concerned about issues of privacy and protection of digital property. > There is strong support from the publishing community, as evidenced > by the statement from the American Association of Publishers. While > the laws to enforce the protection of digital media are in their > infancy, > we believe they are based on the same principles as traditional > media_protect the copyrights of authors, artists, developers and > publishers while balancing the right to fair use. > > Q: What's going on with the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF)? > A: We are engaged in discussions with the EFF to work together to > address this situation. We believe a mutual frank discussion of how > best to resolve the current issues will benefit Adobe and EFF. > > Q: As a result of this case, what is Adobe doing to strengthen the > security of its products? > A: Security is an ongoing effort at Adobe. The company is committed > to strengthening the security of its products by using sophisticated, > industry-standard levels of software encryption and working with the > software community, including White Hat security experts, to > incorporate features to advance the quality of the product. > > Legal questions > > Q: Elcomsoft claims that eBooks in Adobe PDF are insecure and that > the encryption is weak, including ROT-13 which is notorious for its > lack of security. Are those claims true? > A: Adobe has never sold ROT-13 as a security product. Adobe > incorporates sophisticated, industry-standard levels of software > encryption to make our products difficult to compromise. However, no > software is 100% secure from a determined, illegal attack. When used > legally and in its intended fashion, the Acrobat eBook Reader secures > eBooks purchased by locking the eBook to the hardware from which it > was purchased. The Elcomsoft software circumvents the security > afforded by our software to protect copyrighted works. > > Q: Elcomsoft claims that their software provided a service to Adobe > and publishers by uncovering a security weakness. What is Adobe's > position? > A:. Contrary to some reports, the issue is not that Adobe alerted the > U.S. government about an expert exposing security weaknesses. In > fact, Adobe encourages its customers and the software community, > including White Hat security experts, to provide feedback on the > performance of its software in order to make improvements. Adobe's > concern is that a "digital lock pick" is being distributed to enable > others > to compromise the copyrighted works of authors, artists, developers > and publishers. > > Q: Elcomsoft claims that it developed the software in order to let > users > copy the eBooks they purchased onto multiple computers. Doesn't the > Acrobat eBook Reader violate the Fair Use Act? > A: Adobe engineered the Acrobat eBook Reader to exchange eBooks > like printed books. The Acrobat eBook Reader does allow customers > to move the eBooks they purchase between computers through its > lending and giving features. If the publishers enable these features, > the > buyer of an eBook can loan or transfer to another Acrobat eBook > Reader on the network. To the best of Adobe's knowledge, the > Acrobat eBook Reader is the only product that allows for the lending > and giving of eBooks. In addition, the Acrobat eBook Reader allows > for eBook printing and copying. The text-to-speech (or the "Read > Aloud" feature) runs on Windows 2000 and the Macintosh_two > operating systems that provide the functionality. Lending, printing, > copying, giving and text-to-speech are permissions enabled by the > publisher. The Elcomsoft software product violates the permissions set > by the publisher to protect the copyrighted works of artists, authors, > and publishers making the copyrighted content available for unlimited > duplication and distribution. Keep in mind, the eBook market is an > emerging one. Adobe and several other technology companies and > publishing houses are exploring ways to protect copyrights and allow > for fair use. > > Q: What if I want to carry my eBook on a handheld device? What > solution does Adobe provide? > A: Today, the Acrobat eBook Reader is only available for Windows > and Macintosh desktop and laptop computers. Adobe is working with > standards organizations and device manufacturers on a digital rights > management (DRM) scheme that allows for the transfer of copyrighted > materials from desktops and laptops to handheld devices. > > Q: What if a user purchases a new computer? What happens to the > eBooks they own? > A: eBooks that were legitimately purchased with the Acrobat eBook > Reader can be reactivated by calling Adobe technical support. > > Legal questions > > Q: What did Elcomsoft do? > A: By developing a tool that circumvents our encryption software and > then making and selling it in the U.S., the government believes that > Elcomsoft violated U.S. copyright law (Digital Millennium Copyright > Act) and the rights of authors, artists, developers and publishers. > > Q: When did Adobe become aware of the Elcomsoft violation? > A: Our awareness of Elcomsoft was elevated in June when we learned > that they developed a "digital lock pick" specifically targeted to > decrypt > our customers' copyrighted eBooks and it was marketed and sold > online in the United States. > > Q: What is Adobe's goal in this action against Elcomsoft? > A: Let's be clear that the U.S. Government is pursuing this case as a > crime, acting independently of Adobe to enforce U.S. copyright law > (the Digital Millennium Copyright Act). Adobe fully supports the U.S. > Government's decision to investigate the potential violation of U.S. > copyright laws by Elcomsoft and has cooperated with their > investigations with their investigation. Adobe's goal is to help > protect > the copyrighted works of authors, artists, developers and publishers, > and to stop the sale of this cracking software in the U.S. > > Q: Why was criminal verses civil action pursued? > A: As with many parts of Asia, Russia is a nation where civil-based > anti-piracy measures have little effect. Once Adobe had exhausted the > few civil steps likely to have success, we forwarded the case to the > U.S. authorities. The government is pursuing the case as a criminal > violation. > > Q: Did Adobe instigate the U.S. Government's investigation of > Elcomsoft? > A: Adobe alerted the U.S. Attorney's office to investigate the > activities > of Elcomsoft regarding the possible illegal distribution of its > "Advanced > eBook Processor." Based on the information gathered in the > investigation (see affidavit ), the U.S. Government chose to take legal > > action. > > Q: Why was Dmitry Sklyarov arrested after he presented at the > DefCon-9 conference in Las Vegas? Isn't that a violation of free > speech? > A: Skylarov was not arrested for presenting a scholarly paper to a > group of security experts. According to the press release issued by the > > FBI, Dmitry Sklyarov was arrested as the copyright holder of the > "Advanced eBook Processor," a product distributed by his employer, > Elcomsoft. He was arrested in connection to a charge of a "single count > > of trafficking in a product designed to circumvent copyright protection > > measures in violation of Title 17, United States Code, Section 12Ol(b)( > > l)(A). This is one of the first prosecutions in the United States under > this > statute, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA")." > > Q: Did Adobe order the arrest? > A: Adobe did not order the arrest. That was the sole decision of the > U.S. government. Adobe alerted the U.S. Attorney's office to > investigate the activities of Elcomsoft regarding the possible illegal > distribution of its "Advanced eBook Processor." Based on the > information gathered in the investigation (see affidavit), the U.S. > Government chose to take legal action. > > Q: Who says that the United States gets to impose its laws > (specifically, the Digital Millenium Copyright Act) on individuals and > businesses in other countries? > A: Questions regarding the law and its enforcement in this case should > be forwarded to the U.S. Attorney's office. > > Q: What will happen next? > A: Any questions regarding this investigation should be forwarded to > the U.S. Attorney's office. > =============================================== > > > > > "James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)" wrote: > > > > http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/dmca.html > > > > seems pulled > > > > did anyone save a copy? > > > > James S. Huggins > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- #====================================================# # Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! Free Sklyarov! # #====================================================# -- #====================================================# # Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! Free Sklyarov! # #====================================================# From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 23 19:00:07 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] External dns servers in Bay area... In-Reply-To: <200107232235.f6NMZEo61508@www1.mailru.com>; from prostoalex@hotbox.ru on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 02:35:14AM +0400 References: <200107232235.f6NMZEo61508@www1.mailru.com> Message-ID: <20010723190007.D98211@networkcommand.com> Hey, anyone got an external DNS server I can point to and resolve names in the Bay Area? I'm kind of dead in the water, DSL dns is dying... From declan at well.com Mon Jul 23 19:02:14 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] US ACM responds to publishers' statement, contact info Message-ID: <20010723220214.B15383@cluebot.com> I've had an email exchange with the US ACM folks. Barbara Simons wrote to me: "ACM had not been consulted about the AAP's press release. I have raised the issue within ACM, but it's not clear what, if anything, ACM will do. As you know, USACM has spoken out against the DMCA, as have Gene Spafford and I as individuals. (Spaf and I are co-chairs of USACM). But as of now neither ACM nor USACM has taken any position on the Sylyarov prosecution." Gene Spafford writes to me: "ACM is the member of AAP, not USACM. While I think it is possible that Barbara (or other ACM members) might want to contact Pat Schroeder to voice an opinion and educate her about some of the problems, it is not our place to complain or represent ACM's (non)position. I would hope that ACM as a whole would begin to show concern now that we are beginning to hear from non-US scientists who have announced that they will no longer submit to, or attend, conferences in the US because they might be arrested either for their work or for speaking about it. That is a threat to the very core of ACM's reason for being an international organization...... We shall see." Barbara and Gene are respected and intelligent and reasonable people. Think twice, and thrice, before you flame them, and I urge you to raise these points within ACM, if you're a member. -Declan PS: An informed source wrote the below to me and asked me to forward. --- fwd: The people to whom they should all be writing are the following: president@acm.org (ACM President Steve Bourne) white@ACM.ORG (ACM CEO/Executive Director John White) If they wanted to be ambitious, they could write to: ACM_COUNCIL_MEMBERS@ACM.ORG (ACM Council, the ultimate decision making body) They could also write to the USACM co-chairs: simons@acm.org (Barbara Simons, former ACM President) spaf@cerias.purdue.edu (Gene Spafford) From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Mon Jul 23 19:14:54 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] US ACM responds to publishers' statement, contact info References: <20010723220214.B15383@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <3B5CDA1E.757DBB67@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Thanks, Declan! Seth Johnson Declan McCullagh wrote: > > PS: An informed source wrote the below to me and asked me to forward. > > The people to whom they should all be writing are the following: > president@acm.org (ACM President Steve Bourne) > white@ACM.ORG (ACM CEO/Executive Director John White) > > If they wanted to be ambitious, they could write to: > ACM_COUNCIL_MEMBERS@ACM.ORG (ACM Council, > the ultimate decision making body) > > They could also write to the USACM co-chairs: > simons@acm.org (Barbara Simons, former ACM President) > spaf@cerias.purdue.edu (Gene Spafford) From douglay at relicorp.com Mon Jul 23 23:20:43 2001 From: douglay at relicorp.com (Doug Lay) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller Message-ID: <00bc01c11408$c6c86400$0600a8c0@monkeyking> It is certainly an interesting coincidence that Robert Mueller, President Bush's nominee for FBI Director, will have to make the decision on releasing Sklyarov. As someone who is about to undergo confirmation hearings, he might want any controversial matters on his plate to go away as quietly as possible. -Doug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010723/4bf8f5eb/attachment.html From sam at dasbistro.com Mon Jul 23 16:29:30 2001 From: sam at dasbistro.com (Sam Phillips) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fwd: [DMITRY-PLAN] Abobe does the right thing: FWD: Adobe & EFF recommend release of Dmitry Sklyarov Message-ID: <20010723162930.Z12936@dasbistro.com> Ahem... the news everyone has wanted to hear. ----- Forwarded message from Stanton McCandlish ----- Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:00:03 -0700 To: dmitry-plan@eff.org From: Stanton McCandlish Subject: [DMITRY-PLAN] Abobe does the right thing: FWD: Adobe & EFF recommend release of Dmitry Sklyarov For Immediate Release Contact for EFF: Will Doherty, EFF Online Activist / Media Relations, +1 415 436-9333 x111, +1 415 794-6064 (cell), free-dmitry@eff.org Robin Gross, EFF Staff Attorney - Intellectual Property, +1 415 436-9333 x112, +1 415 637-5310 (cell), robin@eff.org Contact for Adobe: Holly Campbell, Senior Corporate Public Relations Manager, +1 408 536-6401, campbell@adobe.com ADOBE, ELECTRONIC FRONTIER FOUNDATION CALL FOR RELEASE OF RUSSIAN PROGRAMMER San Jose, Calif. - July 23, 2001 Adobe Systems Incorporated (Nasdaq: ADBE) and the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) today jointly recommend the release of Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov from federal custody. Adobe is also withdrawing its support for the criminal complaint against Dmitry Sklyarov. "EFF praises Adobe for doing the right thing," said Shari Steele, EFF Executive Director. "We are pleased to see that Adobe has lived up to the high standard of integrity that has made the company successful. While we don't agree on every detail of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), we look forward to working together with Adobe to secure Dmitry's immediate release." "We strongly support the DMCA and the enforcement of copyright protection of digital content," said Colleen Pouliot, Senior Vice President and General Counsel for Adobe. "However, the prosecution of this individual in this particular case is not conducive to the best interests of any of the parties involved or the industry. ElcomSoft's Advanced eBook Processor software is no longer available in the United States, and from that perspective the DMCA worked. Adobe will continue to protect its copyright interests and those of its customers." Sklyarov was arrested July 16 on a criminal complaint filed by the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of California under the DMCA. ElcomSoft is the Moscow-based company employing Sklyarov. About Adobe Systems Incorporated Adobe Systems Incorporated (www.adobe.com) builds award winning software solutions for Network Publishing, including Web, print, video, wireless and broadband applications. Its graphic design, imaging, dynamic media and authoring tools enable customers to create, manage and deliver visually-rich, reliable content. Headquartered in San Jose, Calif., Adobe is the second largest PC software company in the U.S., with annual revenues exceeding $1.2 billion. About the Electronic Frontier Foundation The Electronic Frontier Foundation is the leading civil liberties organization working to protect rights in the digital world. Founded in 1990, EFF actively encourages and challenges industry and government to support free expression, privacy, and openness in the information society. EFF is a member-supported organization and maintains one of the most linked-to websites in the world: http://www.eff.org/ - end - -- -- Stanton McCandlish mech@eff.org http://www.eff.org/~mech Technical Director/Webmaster Electronic Frontier Foundation voice: +1 415 436 9333 x105 fax: +1 415 436 9993 EFF, 454 Shotwell St. San Francisco CA 94110 USA ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Sam Phillips http://www.dasbistro.com Reno Nevada From warthawg at ecpi.com Mon Jul 23 19:36:08 2001 From: warthawg at ecpi.com (Joe Barr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Original Through The Looking Glass License Message-ID: <20010723213608.04169b4d.warthawg@ecpi.com> Does anyone have the original licensing terms for Adobe's ebook distribution of "Through the Looking Glass"? -- #====================================================# # Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! Free Sklyarov! # #====================================================# From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 23 19:35:42 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] To the Protesters. To Adobe. In-Reply-To: <20010723162930.Z12936@dasbistro.com>; from sam@dasbistro.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 04:29:30PM -0700 References: <20010723162930.Z12936@dasbistro.com> Message-ID: <20010723193542.G98211@networkcommand.com> http://www.wfu.edu/~newtrp03/orwell/orwellquotes.html To the Protesters: "Until they become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious" (Orwell 1984 p. 70). To Adobe: "The capitalists owned everything in the world, and everyone else was their slave. They owned all the land, all the houses, all the factories, and all the money. If anyone disobeyed them they could throw him into prison, or they could take his job away and starve him to death. When any ordinary person spoke to a capitalist he had to cringe and bow to him, and take off his cap and address him as 'Sir' " (Orwell 1984 p. 73). Adobe, we do not call you sir. From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 23 19:37:24 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Original Through The Looking Glass License In-Reply-To: <20010723213608.04169b4d.warthawg@ecpi.com>; from warthawg@ecpi.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 09:36:08PM -0500 References: <20010723213608.04169b4d.warthawg@ecpi.com> Message-ID: <20010723193723.H98211@networkcommand.com> Here is some commentary on the license from March: http://www.thestandard.com/article/0,1902,22914,00.html On 23-Jul-2001, Joe Barr wrote: > > Does anyone have the original licensing terms for Adobe's ebook distribution of "Through the Looking Glass"? > > > -- > #====================================================# > # Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! Free Sklyarov! # > #====================================================# > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From roylo at sr2c.com Mon Jul 23 19:38:28 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest? Message-ID: <000d01c113e9$b8d8acc0$0200a8c0@jwin> Since Adobe has back down; I guess it is DMCA vs Dmitry (I guess) I heard there was going to be a protest in San Jose, Is it still going to happen? If so when and where is it? Personally, I think it is wrong for FBI to arrest sklyarov like that. Imagine if I travel to Russia and KGB pick me up for something that I did in US (and it was not illegal in US). What happen to human rights?? Isn't US suppose to be the Land of the Free??? Errr.. for the pass few days that I felt that maybe I'm living in China instead of US. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010723/769bda79/attachment.htm From mark at blorch.org Mon Jul 23 19:38:30 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller In-Reply-To: <00bc01c11408$c6c86400$0600a8c0@monkeyking> References: <00bc01c11408$c6c86400$0600a8c0@monkeyking> Message-ID: <01072319383004.15652@bilbo.blorch.org> On Monday 23 July 2001 23:20, Doug Lay wrote: > It is certainly an interesting coincidence that Robert Mueller, President > Bush's nominee for FBI Director, will have to make the decision on > releasing Sklyarov. > > As someone who is about to undergo confirmation hearings, he might want any > controversial matters on his plate to go away as quietly as possible. Which means one of the next tactics should probably include a campaign to make this a confirmation issue. Mark From owlswan at eff.org Mon Jul 23 19:54:38 2001 From: owlswan at eff.org (Henry Schwan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [nylug-talk] New York rally a success!! In-Reply-To: <01072318304205.17977@lorien> Message-ID: That might have been good on Friday, but maybe not now. On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Leonid Gorkin wrote: > Just an idea -- why don't we organize a rally close to the stock exchange, > under the slogan: > > "ADBE -- sell, sell, sell!!!" > > Hit it where it hurts, huh? > > > On Monday 23 July 2001 04:22 pm, Brooklyn Linux Solutions CEO wrote: > > I could use a report on the protest for www.nyfairuse.org, if someone wants > > to write it. Images are at > > > > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/protest_images/ > > > > > > Next week I call a meeting to organize a lobby to repeal the DMCA. ------- Regards, Henry Schwan Paralegal Electronic Frontier Foundation (415)436-9333 x114 (415)436-9333 (fax) owlswan@eff.org From izel at sulam.com Mon Jul 23 19:54:21 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller Message-ID: Mark K. Bilbo mark@blorch.org wrote: >Which means one of the next tactics should probably include a campaign to >make this a confirmation issue. I think we are seeing the focus of our next set of protests forming here. Our first set of protests were basically an Adobe smear campaign and they worked. We attracted attention to Adobe's lousy security and fradulent business tactics through messageboards, websites and protests. Adobe had to do everything in its power to control damage. They are out of the picture now. They were the weakest link, goodbye. The next weakest link is Mueller. He will want to be confirmed with absolutely no controvery surrounding his position. We must start banging our drums and shouting very loudly - starting NOW - that Sklyarov was arrested illegally even under the strictest interpretation of the DMCA. We must criticize Mueller for wanting to head a lawless bureau that cares nothing for the laws it is supposed to respect and uphold. We must make this incident as embarrassing for him as possible - so he will resolve it quickly and quietly. Comments, suggestions welcome. - izel From roylo at sr2c.com Mon Jul 23 20:05:35 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller References: Message-ID: <000801c113ed$827d2120$0200a8c0@jwin> How about protest in front of the local FBI builds? (San Jose, LA, Chicago, NYC, etc..) Or is that too bold? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Izel Sulam" To: Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 7:54 PM Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller > Mark K. Bilbo mark@blorch.org wrote: > > >Which means one of the next tactics should probably include a campaign to > >make this a confirmation issue. > > I think we are seeing the focus of our next set of protests forming here. > > Our first set of protests were basically an Adobe smear campaign and they > worked. We attracted attention to Adobe's lousy security and fradulent > business tactics through messageboards, websites and protests. Adobe had to > do everything in its power to control damage. They are out of the picture > now. They were the weakest link, goodbye. > > The next weakest link is Mueller. He will want to be confirmed with > absolutely no controvery surrounding his position. We must start banging > our drums and shouting very loudly - starting NOW - that Sklyarov was > arrested illegally even under the strictest interpretation of the DMCA. We > must criticize Mueller for wanting to head a lawless bureau that cares > nothing for the laws it is supposed to respect and uphold. We must make > this incident as embarrassing for him as possible - so he will resolve it > quickly and quietly. > > Comments, suggestions welcome. > - izel > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From izel at sulam.com Mon Jul 23 20:12:19 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller Message-ID: Nothing is too bold as long as it is legal and is in reasonably acceptable taste. Let's hear some more feedback on how exactly to implement our next line of attack. Protests in front of FBI buildings is certainly a legitimate idea. Comments, suggestions welcome. - izel From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 23 20:17:54 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Ashcroft Comments on Carnivore In-Reply-To: <01a401c113b4$8bb76ea0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7>; from sklyarov@lethe.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 01:17:46PM -0700 References: <01a401c113b4$8bb76ea0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> Message-ID: <20010723201754.M98211@networkcommand.com> http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5094558,00.html?chkpt=zdnnp1tp02 House pulls Carnivore into the light By Lisa M. Bowman ZDNet News July 23, 2001 3:20 PM PT A bill requiring federal law-enforcement officials to be more forthright when answering questions about electronic surveillance systems has passed the U.S. House. And last Friday, when a reporter asked Attorney General John Ashcroft about the future of Carnivore during his visit to the Silicon Valley, Ashcroft replied that the FBI does not have a system called Carnivore. He then made a vague comment about how any similar system would use technology that is "privacy neutral." From rabbi at quickie.net Mon Jul 23 20:19:05 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller In-Reply-To: <000801c113ed$827d2120$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: Nah. The FBI loves visitors. On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, roylo wrote: > How about protest in front of the local FBI builds? (San Jose, LA, Chicago, > NYC, etc..) > Or is that too bold? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Izel Sulam" > To: > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 7:54 PM > Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller > > > > Mark K. Bilbo mark@blorch.org wrote: > > > > >Which means one of the next tactics should probably include a campaign to > > >make this a confirmation issue. > > > > I think we are seeing the focus of our next set of protests forming here. > > > > Our first set of protests were basically an Adobe smear campaign and they > > worked. We attracted attention to Adobe's lousy security and fradulent > > business tactics through messageboards, websites and protests. Adobe had > to > > do everything in its power to control damage. They are out of the picture > > now. They were the weakest link, goodbye. > > > > The next weakest link is Mueller. He will want to be confirmed with > > absolutely no controvery surrounding his position. We must start banging > > our drums and shouting very loudly - starting NOW - that Sklyarov was > > arrested illegally even under the strictest interpretation of the DMCA. We > > must criticize Mueller for wanting to head a lawless bureau that cares > > nothing for the laws it is supposed to respect and uphold. We must make > > this incident as embarrassing for him as possible - so he will resolve it > > quickly and quietly. > > > > Comments, suggestions welcome. > > - izel > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Jul 23 20:20:37 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Administrivia: announce list announcement Message-ID: <20010723202037.B16178@zork.net> If you see this message, you're a current subscriber to free-sklyarov! I sent a message to all addresses which had unsubscribed from free-sklyarov, letting them know about the new moderated announcement list, free-sklyarov-announce. It's possible that some of you will get that message, because either (a) you unsubscribed before and then re-subscribed, or (b) you were previously subscribed under a different e-mail address. If you're still subscribed here and get that message, don't worry -- your subscription to this list hasn't been cancelled or anything. Once again, for those who are still here but think the volume is too high, you can switch over to https://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-announce/ a moderated list for announcements (no discussion threads allowed). -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From sisgeek at yahoo.com Mon Jul 23 20:21:59 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of eBook Interests Message-ID: <20010724032159.28561.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com> http://www.openebook.org/who.asp __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From andrea at gravitt.org Mon Jul 23 20:21:58 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:05, roylo wrote: >How about protest in front of the local FBI builds? (San Jose, LA, Chicago, >NYC, etc..) >Or is that too bold? > The only question I would ask is if it would advance our interests. If someone were to suggest that it would be a bad thing because it might piss off the FBI, well that would make me even more interested in doing it. I have no illusions that they don't know who I am at least in some way. I don't care. Hell, I even use my real name. I am doing what I have every right to do as a resident of the US. Andrea From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 23 20:27:55 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87hew3j9ac.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "LS" == Len Sassaman writes: LS> Nah. The FBI loves visitors. Not to mention that this is no longer in the FBI's hands, but in the US Attorney's office's. I suggest that we give a 24-hour cool-off period, though, before planning out the next phase. It's possible (probable?) that the USA will drop the charges soon, based on Adobe's announcement. If not, we work from there. Hell, my throat hurts too much to even start thinking about going down to the Burton Building. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From ilya at theIlya.com Mon Jul 23 20:32:19 2001 From: ilya at theIlya.com (Ilya Volynets) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller In-Reply-To: <87hew3j9ac.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> References: <87hew3j9ac.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <0107232032190A.12942@gateway> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 23 July 2001 20:27, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "LS" == Len Sassaman writes: > > LS> Nah. The FBI loves visitors. > > Not to mention that this is no longer in the FBI's hands, but in the > US Attorney's office's. That does sound reasonable. > I suggest that we give a 24-hour cool-off period, though, before > planning out the next phase. It's possible (probable?) that the USA > will drop the charges soon, based on Adobe's announcement. We still have DMCA.... > If not, we work from there. > Hell, my throat hurts too much to even start thinking about going down > to the Burton Building. I think by tomorrow at least this problem will be fixed :) > ~Klepht -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtc7EYACgkQtKh84cA8u2m4swCeIjO9ak42Tq1Aj6xLFy3+IDGL 25UAnivy6+hkARz4Z2nljpAaPhdLUpMp =yUIE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From david at lupercalia.net Mon Jul 23 20:32:41 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DC Protest Message-ID: <20010723233241.J4596@lupercalia.net> Greetings, The DC Rally went off as planned today. We had a small turnout, but we didn't expect a crowd. Unfortunately my box was cracked Monday morning and so our mailing list was down, which didn't help. However, we did talk to several folks from the press and we are going to hold an organizational meeting on Thursday evening to plan our next step. We realize that this was the first shot in what could be a long battle to free Dmitry, and what will definitely be a long war to end the DMCA. We'll be meeting at Q & 20th NW, outside the Dupont Metro station. We'll be going for dinner and beer just down the street. With the next phase of attack being possibly Mueller's confirmation hearings, which are conveniently located here in DC, I hope we can build a strong presence here in the nation's capital. I strongly encourage everyone in the area to come and join us! Pics are posted at http://www.killyourtv.com/990/dmca/ -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ One World, One Web, One Program. --Advertisement for Internet Explorer Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuehrer. --Adolf Hitler From mark at blorch.org Mon Jul 23 20:36:49 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A Few Words in the Aftermath In-Reply-To: <87k80zkspu.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> References: <87k80zkspu.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <01072320364905.15652@bilbo.blorch.org> On Monday 23 July 2001 18:42, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "A" == Andrea writes: > > A> Now to celebrate and rest and start up for the real fight: the > A> DMCA. Our Russian friend is not out of jail yet, although the > A> case against him has lost it's star witness. But as long as the > A> DMCA is still law in the US, this will happen again. > > A> I hope that many people will at minimum stay subscribed to the > A> announcements list. There is still a lot of work to be > A> done. This effort is practically instant gratification by > A> comparison. > > Oh my goodness! I'd be greatly surprised if people start unsubbing > from this list. It'd be a mistake to think that the recent radio > silence here was due to lack of interest rather than brutalized inodes > on zork.net. I put it down to everybody being out protesting or protested out. > If it's not clear that Dmitry is not yet out of jail: Dmitry is not > yet out of jail! Declaring total victory and walking away, or > concentrating on other fights, would be premature in the extreme! Again: DMITRY IS NOT OUT OF JAIL! Not only that but so long as the DMCA stands, this can happen again. And again. And to you. Or me. Or *any of us. > *I'm* starting to wonder what our next move is. Paranoid as I am, I > keep coming back to the thought that this PR is tactical by Adobe to > keep protest stories off the local TV news. With luck, they'll stick > to their agreement and make whatever communications are necessary with > the DoJ to show their lack of support. > But even if Adobe is out of the picture (yay! One front to fight on), And, hey, it IS a win. Adobe must've wet their pants over all of this. > we still have to get Dmitry out of jail. I think one of the reasons > that we took on Adobe so early here is that they are the weakest link > and have the most to luse from bad publicity (which is one of the few > things we can dish out in large quantities). > > I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe we should not be > premature in packing up the tents and going home. Definitely. Until the DMCA is taken out, this can just keep happening. And certainly we can't quit now and let that guy rot in jail. Mark From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Jul 23 20:39:20 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of protest pictures? Message-ID: <20010723203920.A14917@zork.net> Can someone compile a list of URLs for all published pictures of protests and rallies that took place today? I'd like to send such a list to free-sklyarov-announce (but it doesn't seem worthwhile to send the individual announcements of each individual person's pictures). -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 23 20:39:21 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DC Protest In-Reply-To: <20010723233241.J4596@lupercalia.net> References: <20010723233241.J4596@lupercalia.net> Message-ID: <878zhfj8ra.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "DM" == David Merrill writes: DM> Pics are posted at http://www.killyourtv.com/990/dmca/ Wow. Considering how little time you all had to get this together, I think you did exceedingly well. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From david at lupercalia.net Mon Jul 23 20:43:17 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [Free-dmitry-dc] DC Protest In-Reply-To: <20010723233241.J4596@lupercalia.net>; from david@lupercalia.net on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:32:19PM -0400 References: <20010723233241.J4596@lupercalia.net> Message-ID: <20010723234317.L4596@lupercalia.net> On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:32:19PM -0400, David Merrill wrote: > Greetings, > > The DC Rally went off as planned today. We had a small turnout, but we > didn't expect a crowd. Unfortunately my box was cracked Monday morning > and so our mailing list was down, which didn't help. > > However, we did talk to several folks from the press and we are going > to hold an organizational meeting on Thursday evening to plan our next > step. We realize that this was the first shot in what could be a long > battle to free Dmitry, and what will definitely be a long war to end > the DMCA. > > We'll be meeting at Q & 20th NW, outside the Dupont Metro station. > We'll be going for dinner and beer just down the street. Um, big ommission here as several folks pointed out privately. The time for this is 6:00 PM, which should be conveniently after work for most folks. Anyone who wants to come but can't make 6:00 should write me privately for my cell so I can let you know where we are. > With the next phase of attack being possibly Mueller's confirmation > hearings, which are conveniently located here in DC, I hope we can > build a strong presence here in the nation's capital. I strongly > encourage everyone in the area to come and join us! > > Pics are posted at http://www.killyourtv.com/990/dmca/ -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ Although UNIX is more reliable, NT may become more reliable with time. --US Navy Fleet Introduction deputy director Ron Redman explaining why the Navy uses NT From btoshtemirov at ccbu.uz Mon Jul 23 20:20:16 2001 From: btoshtemirov at ccbu.uz (Bahtier Toshtemirov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (no subject) Message-ID: <45256A93.0013705C.00@tash-bdc0.ccbu.uz> unsubscribe admin btoshtemirov@ccbu.uz From moomonk at daisy-chan.org Mon Jul 23 15:54:35 2001 From: moomonk at daisy-chan.org (Joshua Jore) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: IEEE??? Re: [free-sklyarov] US ACM responds to publishers' statement, contact info In-Reply-To: <3B5CDA1E.757DBB67@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Message-ID: Just a thought, IEEE Computer Society is a professional technical group. Have they made any statement? Josh On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Seth Johnson wrote: > > Thanks, Declan! > > Seth Johnson > > > Declan McCullagh wrote: > > > > PS: An informed source wrote the below to me and asked me to forward. > > > > The people to whom they should all be writing are the following: > > president@acm.org (ACM President Steve Bourne) > > white@ACM.ORG (ACM CEO/Executive Director John White) > > > > If they wanted to be ambitious, they could write to: > > ACM_COUNCIL_MEMBERS@ACM.ORG (ACM Council, > > the ultimate decision making body) > > > > They could also write to the USACM co-chairs: > > simons@acm.org (Barbara Simons, former ACM President) > > spaf@cerias.purdue.edu (Gene Spafford) > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From pmasloch at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 20:55:21 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A Few Words in the Aftermath In-Reply-To: <01072320364905.15652@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Mark K. Bilbo Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 11:37 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net; freesklyarov@hackhawk.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] A Few Words in the Aftermath On Monday 23 July 2001 18:42, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "A" == Andrea writes: > > A> Now to celebrate and rest and start up for the real fight: the > A> DMCA. Our Russian friend is not out of jail yet, although the > A> case against him has lost it's star witness. But as long as the > A> DMCA is still law in the US, this will happen again. > > A> I hope that many people will at minimum stay subscribed to the > A> announcements list. There is still a lot of work to be > A> done. This effort is practically instant gratification by > A> comparison. > > Oh my goodness! I'd be greatly surprised if people start unsubbing > from this list. It'd be a mistake to think that the recent radio > silence here was due to lack of interest rather than brutalized inodes > on zork.net. I think that the primary target now should be the DoJ (Ashcroft). They are the only one who can release Dmitry. Since Adobe made a step back it would be good if the public would make pressure against the DoJ. Peter From mark at blorch.org Mon Jul 23 20:53:01 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072320530107.15652@bilbo.blorch.org> On Monday 23 July 2001 19:54, Izel Sulam wrote: > Mark K. Bilbo mark@blorch.org wrote: > >Which means one of the next tactics should probably include a campaign to > >make this a confirmation issue. > > I think we are seeing the focus of our next set of protests forming here. > > Our first set of protests were basically an Adobe smear campaign and they > worked. We attracted attention to Adobe's lousy security and fradulent > business tactics through messageboards, websites and protests. Adobe had to > do everything in its power to control damage. They are out of the picture > now. They were the weakest link, goodbye. > > The next weakest link is Mueller. He will want to be confirmed with > absolutely no controvery surrounding his position. We must start banging > our drums and shouting very loudly - starting NOW - that Sklyarov was > arrested illegally even under the strictest interpretation of the DMCA. We > must criticize Mueller for wanting to head a lawless bureau that cares > nothing for the laws it is supposed to respect and uphold. We must make > this incident as embarrassing for him as possible - so he will resolve it > quickly and quietly. I agree. And it is, really, a good confirmation issue. Will the FBI arrest people based on the ramblings of corporate marketing departments or will they INVESTIGATE? I was appalled that in reading the complaint that I could NOT find any actual reference to Dmitry "trafficking" anything. Lots about the Elcomsoft website, the Elcomsoft ISP, the Register Now service, the Defcon 9 speech... NOTHING about "this guy had a program that is illegal under US law and was selling it to people." Just all of the sudden, non-sequitur, "so he was trafficking!" The man was arrested purely on the basis of the Adobe complaint. Will the FBI be arresting first, investigating second, from now on? *DO* they take their orders from the corporations? I think it's a legitimate thing to be asking a nominee. Not to mention that making him squirm just sounds fun. And if Mueller wants the issue to just "go away" then he can send Dmitry home to his family post haste. (Actually, the issue shouldn't go away even then given that the DMCA is a bad law and this could happen all over again next year or next month to you or me but... well, we can worry about that after Dmitry's home with his kids). Mark From fegray at npl.uiuc.edu Mon Jul 23 20:57:03 2001 From: fegray at npl.uiuc.edu (Fred Gray) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: free-sklyarov digest, Vol 1 #109 - 17 msgs In-Reply-To: ; from free-sklyarov-request@zork.net on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 08:35:04PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010723225703.A15834@npl.uiuc.edu> Although we're overjoyed about today's announcement from Adobe and the EFF, there will nevertheless be an educational protest at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign on Wednesday. We'll be on the Quad in front of the Illini Union from 11:00 until 1:00. The focus of the event will be to inform the University community about the problems with the DMCA. If Dmitry is still in jail on Wednesday, then there will be a major "Free Dmitry" component as well. I hope that isn't the case. Is anyone else on this list (other than Tony and I) in Champaign-Urbana? If so, would you please contact me? Thanks very much, -- Fred Gray *** FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV *** http://www.freesklyarov.org *** From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 23 21:02:45 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [Free-dmitry-dc] DC Protest In-Reply-To: <20010723234317.L4596@lupercalia.net>; from david@lupercalia.net on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:43:17PM -0400 References: <20010723233241.J4596@lupercalia.net> <20010723234317.L4596@lupercalia.net> Message-ID: <20010723210245.Q98211@networkcommand.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Press Release For Immediate Release: July 23, 2001 ------------------------------------ NY - 26 Religious organizations today filed suit against the three largest genetic research corporations in a class action lawsuit. The complaint aims to halt these organization's research of the human genetic code. Other genetic research pursuits were not named in the suit. Bishop Write explained, "We believe these companies are reverse engineering the human genetic code for profit. While the benefits may be great, we cannot allow them to continue." This action, covered by the 1998 Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA), alleges the companies are knowingly engaging in the Circumvention of Protection systems and could use this information to make a clone. "Once this system is cracked, the information could be used to reproduce a copy of a human being through unnatural means," Bishop Write said. The organizations which include Monsanto, Perkin-Elmer and Genentec are seeking a review of the DMCA and asking for a stay of the injunction. "This law could seriously delay or stop our research efforts into the Human Genome. Drug discovery could be seriously impacted and our main concern is making people better," stated a spokesperson for Genentec. "Therefore, we are asking for further review. We aren't interested in making a copy or clone, we just want to know how. The law [DMCA] is very broad. Who do they claim the Copyright holder is for the Human Genenome? The law is very vague, and related to the World Intellectual Property Organization. We are a US Corporation and feel we should not be controlled by the WIPO. You would think with all the anti-globalization protests around the world the US government would get the picture. " But the Religious organizations were unmoved: "Hitler was attempting to create a super-race. At that time they didn't have they the technical means to sequence genes, so he was going about it the old fashioned way using nature. Well, we didn't like it then and we don't like it now," the Bishop stated. In a separate case filed by the religious community, they also name numerous genetic companies asking for release of documents containing the first pieces of the decyphered genetic code. "All along they've been telling people its just ATGC, a couple nucleic acids. Did they really think we didn't know that was encryption? Well we know about the message and we are asking that they release it." The Bishop continued: "This whole time SETI has been looking into the stars for some communication, well we knew all along. Your genetic code is the communication. The Churches have need of that data and we will sue to get it." ================================================================ http://www.anti-dmca.org I'm Pro-Thought: Keep your laws off my mind! From pmasloch at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 21:17:41 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: So Sad In-Reply-To: <589499.995912514@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: Geez....what a jerk. Probably he thinks that Defcon is an Software auction. Elcomsoft stopped the sale way before Dmitry came to Las Vegas. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Pablos Kadrevis Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 9:22 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: So Sad We need another volunteer to write back to this guy: --On Monday, July 23, 2001 9:23 AM -0500 Marc Bech wrote: > You guys should be ashamed of yourself. You are nothing but hypocrites > and thugs yourselves, and no better people than Dimitry himself. But > then again, you probably revel in that, and have nothing better to do > with your creative talents. > > Dimitry is not just trying to circumvent a security loophole in the > eReader, his is trying to allow, for his own profit, the illegal copying > of eBooks. Passing around a book to a friend after one has read it is > one thing, because when your friend has it, you no longer do. Passing > around copies of a book, on-line or not, is illegal, because now there > are multiple copies of it. You are not just hitting the pocketbooks of > Adobe, but you are stealing from the authors and they're publishers. Do > you go out and purchase photocopies of hardcopy books too? > > It would be one thing to POINT out a flaw in the eReader to Adobe. > Dimitry went way beyond this to allow the illegal copying of software. > So, do you illegal copy any software that is purchased too? This is what > you are condoning. > > Dimitry is not pointing out a flaw for the sense of saving the planet's > computers from security hackers such that needs to be done with > Microsoft's operating system and Internet Exploder. Creating a loophole > in the eReader again ONLY allows the illegal copying of software, > nothing less. > > Touching picture of his family you put on your site too. Maybe Dimitry > should've considered his family and children more before he carried out > such a careless act of on-line terrorism. If he is so smart, maybe he > should've applied for a job at Adobe and done something positive. Too > late for that. > > YOU and Dimitry are the thugs. > > I boycottt everything YOU stand for. > > And yes, you are being hypocritical for calling for an Adobe boycott on > a website that was created with Adobe software. Pathetic actually. > > Marc > -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From robin at eff.org Mon Jul 23 21:15:14 2001 From: robin at eff.org (Robin Gross) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thank You All! Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010723202513.027417b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Thank you all for organizing so quickly and focusing your support so effectively in this shared effort to free Dmitry and repeal this harmful Act of Congress. I wish I could express how grateful we were at while at Adobe in the negotiations today to be able to see the public supporters outside. There is no question that it made all the difference in the day's outcome. This applies equally to both those who were right outside the window as well as from protesters all over the world. Today's victory belongs to you folks. This experience clearly shows that when we focus our combined energy we can get results. Now the DOJ and Robert Mueller must be convinced its not in their best interests to pursue this prosecution. Thank you, Robin ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Robin D. Gross - Cyberspace Attorney @ Law Electronic Frontier Foundation 454 Shotwell Street, San Francisco, CA 94110 e: robin@eff.org w: http://www.eff.org p: 415.863.5459 f: 415.436.9993 http://www.eff.org/cafe http://www.eff.org/Intellectual_property/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From pablos at kadrevis.com Mon Jul 23 21:21:52 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mueller address In-Reply-To: <20010723202632.B1375@shell9.ba.best.com> References: <20010723202632.B1375@shell9.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <320304.995923312@[10.0.1.220]> Anybody got contact info for Robert Mueller's office? pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From dredd at megacity.org Mon Jul 23 21:29:48 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thank You All! In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010723202513.027417b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010723202513.027417b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: No offense, but this coming from the organization that claimed they "could not support the protesting"? This seems a little... I dunno... hypocritical. I understand that the end result was good, but to imply that "the protestors" and "the EFF" were any kind of "team" is definitely (as far as I can tell) not the case at all. The EFF tries now to skate through the best of both worlds, disavowing themselves of the protestors and hanging them out to dry, and now claiming they were "part of the team" and a part of some "combined energy". Pick a side of the fence and stay on it. :) D At 9:15 PM -0700 7/23/01, Robin Gross wrote: >Thank you all for organizing so quickly and focusing your support so >effectively in this shared effort to free Dmitry and repeal this >harmful Act of Congress. > >I wish I could express how grateful we were at while at Adobe in the >negotiations today to be able to see the public supporters outside. >There is no question that it made all the difference in the day's >outcome. This applies equally to both those who were right outside >the window as well as from protesters all over the world. >Today's victory belongs to you folks. > >This experience clearly shows that when we focus our combined energy >we can get results. Now the DOJ and Robert Mueller must be >convinced its not in their best interests to pursue this prosecution. > >Thank you, >Robin -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Jul 23 21:31:33 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mueller address In-Reply-To: <320304.995923312@[10.0.1.220]>; from pablos@kadrevis.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 09:21:52PM -0700 References: <20010723202632.B1375@shell9.ba.best.com> <320304.995923312@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <20010723213133.F14917@zork.net> Pablos Kadrevis writes: > Anybody got contact info for Robert Mueller's office? Of course! http://www.usaondca.com/html/office_info.html -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From pmasloch at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 21:33:04 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mueller address In-Reply-To: <320304.995923312@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: Should be this one: Federal Bureau of Investigation J. Edgar Hoover Building 935 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20535-0001 (202) 324-3000 Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Pablos Kadrevis Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 12:22 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mueller address Anybody got contact info for Robert Mueller's office? pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From kris at firstworld.net Mon Jul 23 21:30:25 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mueller address In-Reply-To: <320304.995923312@[10.0.1.220]> References: <20010723202632.B1375@shell9.ba.best.com> <20010723202632.B1375@shell9.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010723212705.01410320@pop.firstworld.net> At 09:21 PM 7/23/2001 -0700, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: >Anybody got contact info for Robert Mueller's office? > from http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/contact/usalist.html Robert S. Mueller, III, United States Attorney 450 Golden Gate Ave., Box 36055 San Francisco CA, 94102 Phone (415) 436-7200 Fax (415) 436-7234 1301 Clay St., Ste. 340S Oakland CA, 94612 Phone (510) 637-3680 Fax (510) 637-3724 280 South First St., Rm. 371 San Jose CA, 95113 Phone (408) 535-5061 Fax (408) 535-5066 Kris From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Jul 23 21:36:59 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mueller address In-Reply-To: ; from pmasloch@earthlink.net on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 12:33:04AM -0400 References: <320304.995923312@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <20010723213659.G14917@zork.net> Peter writes: > Should be this one: > > Federal Bureau of Investigation > J. Edgar Hoover Building > 935 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. > Washington, D.C. 20535-0001 > (202) 324-3000 Nope, that's the FBI. Mueller doesn't work there _yet_, because he hasn't been confirmed as Director. He currently works in the Northern District of California U.S. Attorney's Office, which is his office. http://www.usaondca.com/ Remember, these people put out the press release that got this whole storm of attention started. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From pablos at kadrevis.com Mon Jul 23 21:38:22 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mueller address In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <379707.995924302@[10.0.1.220]> Um, I don't think he's official yet. He's still U.S. Attorney for the Northern district of California. That's the address I need. Thanks though! pablos. --On Tuesday, July 24, 2001 12:33 AM -0400 Peter wrote: > Should be this one: > > Federal Bureau of Investigation > J. Edgar Hoover Building > 935 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. > Washington, D.C. 20535-0001 > (202) 324-3000 > > Free Dmitry Sklyarov > Stop the DMCA > ---------------------------------------- > http://www.freesklyarov.org > http://www.boycottadobe.org > > -----Original Message----- > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Pablos Kadrevis > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 12:22 AM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mueller address > > > Anybody got contact info for Robert Mueller's office? > > pablos. > -- > Pablos Kadrevis > pablos@kadrevis.com > 415.420.3806 > www.shmoo.com/~pablos > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From roylo at sr2c.com Mon Jul 23 21:41:16 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you Message-ID: <007401c113fa$e025a600$0200a8c0@jwin> Personally, I think the issue on "FBI Arrest Dmitry" is bigger than "Dmitry vs. Adobe" or "Dmitry vs. DoJ" Think about it, one day you walk down the street in Iraq and you got pick up by the local Islam police because you had a pork chop before you on board the plane to Iraq. Ok, maybe I can understand that ('cause it is Iraq") Think about it; Does FBI really has the right to arrest Dmitry? Or did the power of "Big Brother" is getting out of the hand. I don't think FBI has the right to arrest Dmitry in the first place, and Dmitry should be release NOW. And I mean NOW. I don't think Dmitry want to stay in the jail for another day, neither would you and I. If anyone lives in San Jose area want to do a protest in front of FBI build, please send a e-mail me. 'Cause Dmitry should NOT be stay in jail for another day. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010723/d5e21b68/attachment.html From declan at well.com Mon Jul 23 21:44:43 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] /. In-Reply-To: <20010723223441.A12399@lemuria.org>; from tom@lemuria.org on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 10:34:43PM +0200 References: <20010723223441.A12399@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20010724004443.B24508@cluebot.com> Heh. Welcome to the world of journalism and editors. -Declan On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 10:34:43PM +0200, Tom wrote: > I just got a protest story posted on slashdot. comments are coming in, > even though taco had to tack on a stupid and distracting comment. > > > -- > -- http://web.lemuria.org > -- > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jays at panix.com Mon Jul 23 21:44:33 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thank You All! In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010723202513.027417b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Thanks, Robin! Thanks, EFF! The suited, the bearsacked, and the grits-crusted Natalie Portman brigades will fight on! oo--JS. From pmasloch at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 21:45:32 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mueller address In-Reply-To: <20010723213659.G14917@zork.net> Message-ID: Yes....you are right. Sorry.... :-))) Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Seth David Schoen Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 12:37 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Mueller address Peter writes: > Should be this one: > > Federal Bureau of Investigation > J. Edgar Hoover Building > 935 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. > Washington, D.C. 20535-0001 > (202) 324-3000 Nope, that's the FBI. Mueller doesn't work there _yet_, because he hasn't been confirmed as Director. He currently works in the Northern District of California U.S. Attorney's Office, which is his office. http://www.usaondca.com/ Remember, these people put out the press release that got this whole storm of attention started. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From pmasloch at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 21:49:34 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you In-Reply-To: <007401c113fa$e025a600$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: No, unfortunatly they do have the right. We only can get them with violation of international human rights if they have not told Dmitry that he has the right to contact his Ambassy. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of roylo Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 12:41 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you Personally, I think the issue on "FBI Arrest Dmitry" is bigger than "Dmitry vs. Adobe" or "Dmitry vs. DoJ" Think about it, one day you walk down the street in Iraq and you got pick up by the local Islam police because you had a pork chop before you on board the plane to Iraq. Ok, maybe I can understand that ('cause it is Iraq") Think about it; Does FBI really has the right to arrest Dmitry? Or did the power of "Big Brother" is getting out of the hand. I don't think FBI has the right to arrest Dmitry in the first place, and Dmitry should be release NOW. And I mean NOW. I don't think Dmitry want to stay in the jail for another day, neither would you and I. If anyone lives in San Jose area want to do a protest in front of FBI build, please send a e-mail me. 'Cause Dmitry should NOT be stay in jail for another day. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010724/232b3f1b/attachment.htm From mlc67 at columbia.edu Mon Jul 23 21:50:34 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mueller address In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20010723212705.01410320@pop.firstworld.net>; from kris@firstworld.net on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 09:30:25PM -0700 References: <20010723202632.B1375@shell9.ba.best.com> <20010723202632.B1375@shell9.ba.best.com> <320304.995923312@[10.0.1.220]> <4.2.0.58.20010723212705.01410320@pop.firstworld.net> Message-ID: <20010723215034.E12369@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Be sure to be polite when writing. One angry, threatening letter can do more harm than ten polite letters can do good. But, of course, the polite letters are infinitely better than silence. mike On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 09:30:25PM -0700, Kris wrote: > At 09:21 PM 7/23/2001 -0700, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: > >Anybody got contact info for Robert Mueller's office? > > > > Robert S. Mueller, III, > United States Attorney > 450 Golden Gate Ave., Box 36055 > San Francisco CA, 94102 > Phone (415) 436-7200 > Fax (415) 436-7234 -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // cell: +1 (646) 382-7220 // "facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - aldous huxley -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010723/4d63ab72/attachment.pgp From warthawg at ecpi.com Mon Jul 23 21:55:45 2001 From: warthawg at ecpi.com (Joe Barr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you In-Reply-To: <007401c113fa$e025a600$0200a8c0@jwin> References: <007401c113fa$e025a600$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: <20010723235545.17ac789f.warthawg@ecpi.com> Why is he still in jail? I mean, why hasn't he been bailed out? Do our laws allow the FBI to just disappear someone by virtue of their arrest? Is due process an antiquated notion? Would a lawyer please explain? On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:41:16 -0700 "roylo" wrote: > Personally, I think the issue on "FBI Arrest Dmitry" is bigger than "Dmitry > vs. Adobe" or "Dmitry vs. DoJ" > > Think about it, one day you walk down the street in Iraq and you got pick up > by the local > Islam police because you had a pork chop before you on board the plane to > Iraq. > Ok, maybe I can understand that ('cause it is Iraq") > > Think about it; Does FBI really has the right to arrest Dmitry? Or did the > power of "Big Brother" is getting out of the hand. > > I don't think FBI has the right to arrest Dmitry in the first place, and > Dmitry should be release NOW. > And I mean NOW. > > I don't think Dmitry want to stay in the jail for another day, neither would > you and I. > > If anyone lives in San Jose area want to do a protest in front of FBI build, > please send a e-mail me. > > > 'Cause Dmitry should NOT be stay in jail for another day. > -- #====================================================# # Repeal the DMCA! Free Sklyarov! # #====================================================# From roylo at sr2c.com Mon Jul 23 21:52:32 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you References: Message-ID: <00ce01c113fc$736a09a0$0200a8c0@jwin> You are kidding me right?? Didn't took any law related class when I was in college but this is a bit off. So, I (or anyone from US) ate a pork chop before you on board the plane to Iraq; It is "OK" for local Islam police to arrest me??? Err.. Am I really living in US? somehow I got a feeling that I'm living in China now ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter To: roylo ; free-sklyarov@zork.net Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 9:49 PM Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you No, unfortunatly they do have the right. We only can get them with violation of international human rights if they have not told Dmitry that he has the right to contact his Ambassy. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of roylo Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 12:41 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you Personally, I think the issue on "FBI Arrest Dmitry" is bigger than "Dmitry vs. Adobe" or "Dmitry vs. DoJ" Think about it, one day you walk down the street in Iraq and you got pick up by the local Islam police because you had a pork chop before you on board the plane to Iraq. Ok, maybe I can understand that ('cause it is Iraq") Think about it; Does FBI really has the right to arrest Dmitry? Or did the power of "Big Brother" is getting out of the hand. I don't think FBI has the right to arrest Dmitry in the first place, and Dmitry should be release NOW. And I mean NOW. I don't think Dmitry want to stay in the jail for another day, neither would you and I. If anyone lives in San Jose area want to do a protest in front of FBI build, please send a e-mail me. 'Cause Dmitry should NOT be stay in jail for another day. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010723/e69e04e7/attachment.htm From wild at eff.org Mon Jul 23 21:56:04 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mueller address In-Reply-To: References: <320304.995923312@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010723215543.03171008@pop3.norton.antivirus> Not correct. At 12:33 AM 7/24/2001 -0400, Peter wrote: >Should be this one: > >Federal Bureau of Investigation >J. Edgar Hoover Building >935 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. >Washington, D.C. 20535-0001 >(202) 324-3000 > >Free Dmitry Sklyarov >Stop the DMCA >---------------------------------------- >http://www.freesklyarov.org >http://www.boycottadobe.org > >-----Original Message----- >From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net >[mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Pablos Kadrevis >Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 12:22 AM >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mueller address > > >Anybody got contact info for Robert Mueller's office? > >pablos. >-- >Pablos Kadrevis >pablos@kadrevis.com >415.420.3806 >www.shmoo.com/~pablos > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From dredd at megacity.org Mon Jul 23 22:00:13 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you In-Reply-To: <00ce01c113fc$736a09a0$0200a8c0@jwin> References: <00ce01c113fc$736a09a0$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: At 9:52 PM -0700 7/23/01, roylo wrote: >You are kidding me right?? >Didn't took any law related class when I was in college but this is a bit off. > >So, I (or anyone from US) ate a pork chop before you on board the >plane to Iraq; It is "OK" for local >Islam police to arrest me??? > >Err.. Am I really living in US? somehow I got a feeling that I'm >living in China now > I must admit that I've considered seeking political asylum in a foreign country at this stage. :( D -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 23 22:01:01 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you In-Reply-To: <20010723235545.17ac789f.warthawg@ecpi.com>; from warthawg@ecpi.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:55:45PM -0500 References: <007401c113fa$e025a600$0200a8c0@jwin> <20010723235545.17ac789f.warthawg@ecpi.com> Message-ID: <20010723220100.S98211@networkcommand.com> I'm not a lawyer but I think there are two reasons: 1. Not citizen 2. Flight risk On 23-Jul-2001, Joe Barr wrote: > > > Why is he still in jail? I mean, why hasn't he been bailed out? Do our laws allow the FBI to just disappear someone by virtue of their arrest? Is due process an antiquated notion? > > Would a lawyer please explain? > > > > > > On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:41:16 -0700 > "roylo" wrote: > > > Personally, I think the issue on "FBI Arrest Dmitry" is bigger than "Dmitry > > vs. Adobe" or "Dmitry vs. DoJ" > > > > Think about it, one day you walk down the street in Iraq and you got pick up > > by the local > > Islam police because you had a pork chop before you on board the plane to > > Iraq. > > Ok, maybe I can understand that ('cause it is Iraq") > > > > Think about it; Does FBI really has the right to arrest Dmitry? Or did the > > power of "Big Brother" is getting out of the hand. > > > > I don't think FBI has the right to arrest Dmitry in the first place, and > > Dmitry should be release NOW. > > And I mean NOW. > > > > I don't think Dmitry want to stay in the jail for another day, neither would > > you and I. > > > > If anyone lives in San Jose area want to do a protest in front of FBI build, > > please send a e-mail me. > > > > > > 'Cause Dmitry should NOT be stay in jail for another day. > > > > > -- > #====================================================# > # Repeal the DMCA! Free Sklyarov! # > #====================================================# > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From pmasloch at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 22:03:09 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you In-Reply-To: <20010723235545.17ac789f.warthawg@ecpi.com> Message-ID: How long was Kevin Mitnick in Jail without Bail? 2 years? 3 years? Of course, Ashcroft wants to make a statement with this arrest. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org Why is he still in jail? I mean, why hasn't he been bailed out? Do our laws allow the FBI to just disappear someone by virtue of their arrest? Is due process an antiquated notion? Would a lawyer please explain? On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:41:16 -0700 "roylo" wrote: > Personally, I think the issue on "FBI Arrest Dmitry" is bigger than "Dmitry > vs. Adobe" or "Dmitry vs. DoJ" > > Think about it, one day you walk down the street in Iraq and you got pick up > by the local > Islam police because you had a pork chop before you on board the plane to > Iraq. > Ok, maybe I can understand that ('cause it is Iraq") > > Think about it; Does FBI really has the right to arrest Dmitry? Or did the > power of "Big Brother" is getting out of the hand. > > I don't think FBI has the right to arrest Dmitry in the first place, and > Dmitry should be release NOW. > And I mean NOW. > > I don't think Dmitry want to stay in the jail for another day, neither would > you and I. > > If anyone lives in San Jose area want to do a protest in front of FBI build, > please send a e-mail me. > > > 'Cause Dmitry should NOT be stay in jail for another day. > -- #====================================================# # Repeal the DMCA! Free Sklyarov! # #====================================================# _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From declan at well.com Mon Jul 23 21:58:34 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you In-Reply-To: <20010723235545.17ac789f.warthawg@ecpi.com>; from warthawg@ecpi.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:55:45PM -0500 References: <007401c113fa$e025a600$0200a8c0@jwin> <20010723235545.17ac789f.warthawg@ecpi.com> Message-ID: <20010724005834.C24508@cluebot.com> On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:55:45PM -0500, Joe Barr wrote: > Why is he still in jail? I mean, why hasn't he been bailed out? Do > our laws allow the FBI to just disappear someone by virtue of their > arrest? Is due process an antiquated notion? It would undoubtably help his chances at making bail if a judge set bail for everyone's favorite defendant, rather than not letting him out on bail at all. http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45342,00.html Matthew Parrella, a federal prosecutor in Las Vegas, said a judge on Monday decided to hold Sklyarov without bail until his hearing in California some time in the next two weeks. "The court deemed him a risk of non-appearance, which is not uncommon with white collar criminals," Parrella said. It would undoubtably help your understanding if you read news coverage of the case. -Declan From roylo at sr2c.com Mon Jul 23 22:03:34 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you References: <00ce01c113fc$736a09a0$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: <001a01c113fd$fdf17d00$0200a8c0@jwin> >So, I (or anyone from US) ate a pork chop before "you" on board the plane to Iraq; It is "OK" for local >Islam police to arrest me??? err,,,,"you" should be I Sorry, type too fast (typo) To be honest, I'm really piss off at this right now. At first I thought they were going to release him(Dmitry) soon and sue him afterwards. But it seems like he is going to be in jail for awhile. (Haven't heard from anywhere that he is going released, so I assume he is still in jail) The guy is a programer not a muder or a rapist. He doesn't belong in jail ----- Original Message ----- From: roylo To: Peter ; free-sklyarov@zork.net Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you You are kidding me right?? Didn't took any law related class when I was in college but this is a bit off. So, I (or anyone from US) ate a pork chop before you on board the plane to Iraq; It is "OK" for local Islam police to arrest me??? Err.. Am I really living in US? somehow I got a feeling that I'm living in China now ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter To: roylo ; free-sklyarov@zork.net Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 9:49 PM Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you No, unfortunatly they do have the right. We only can get them with violation of international human rights if they have not told Dmitry that he has the right to contact his Ambassy. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of roylo Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 12:41 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you Personally, I think the issue on "FBI Arrest Dmitry" is bigger than "Dmitry vs. Adobe" or "Dmitry vs. DoJ" Think about it, one day you walk down the street in Iraq and you got pick up by the local Islam police because you had a pork chop before you on board the plane to Iraq. Ok, maybe I can understand that ('cause it is Iraq") Think about it; Does FBI really has the right to arrest Dmitry? Or did the power of "Big Brother" is getting out of the hand. I don't think FBI has the right to arrest Dmitry in the first place, and Dmitry should be release NOW. And I mean NOW. I don't think Dmitry want to stay in the jail for another day, neither would you and I. If anyone lives in San Jose area want to do a protest in front of FBI build, please send a e-mail me. 'Cause Dmitry should NOT be stay in jail for another day. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010723/54c2f085/attachment.html From pmasloch at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 22:06:38 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you In-Reply-To: <20010723220100.S98211@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: On the day they release Dmitry, they drive him right to the Airport and place him in to a plane. The INS will have a talk with him too..... Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Jon O . Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 1:01 AM To: Joe Barr Cc: roylo; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you I'm not a lawyer but I think there are two reasons: 1. Not citizen 2. Flight risk On 23-Jul-2001, Joe Barr wrote: > > > Why is he still in jail? I mean, why hasn't he been bailed out? Do our laws allow the FBI to just disappear someone by virtue of their arrest? Is due process an antiquated notion? > > Would a lawyer please explain? > > > > > > On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:41:16 -0700 > "roylo" wrote: > > > Personally, I think the issue on "FBI Arrest Dmitry" is bigger than "Dmitry > > vs. Adobe" or "Dmitry vs. DoJ" > > > > Think about it, one day you walk down the street in Iraq and you got pick up > > by the local > > Islam police because you had a pork chop before you on board the plane to > > Iraq. > > Ok, maybe I can understand that ('cause it is Iraq") > > > > Think about it; Does FBI really has the right to arrest Dmitry? Or did the > > power of "Big Brother" is getting out of the hand. > > > > I don't think FBI has the right to arrest Dmitry in the first place, and > > Dmitry should be release NOW. > > And I mean NOW. > > > > I don't think Dmitry want to stay in the jail for another day, neither would > > you and I. > > > > If anyone lives in San Jose area want to do a protest in front of FBI build, > > please send a e-mail me. > > > > > > 'Cause Dmitry should NOT be stay in jail for another day. > > > > > -- > #====================================================# > # Repeal the DMCA! Free Sklyarov! # > #====================================================# > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Mon Jul 23 22:23:22 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] SF bay area wb20 report Message-ID: Brief summary: Nicely executed report just aired on News@10 on the WB20 tv channel in the bay area. Covered: what happenned with the arrest, a tiny snippet of Dmitry's original interview (looks like it's NOT from his current location!), what happenned today with Adobe, a thorough description of our stance from Don Marti in two soundbytes, and an overall spin of "hmm, interesting, here we have programmers protesting to appeal to programmers, and look, they got what they wanted." -- -alexf From tabindak at best.com Mon Jul 23 22:29:08 2001 From: tabindak at best.com (Tabinda N. Khan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you In-Reply-To: <007401c113fa$e025a600$0200a8c0@jwin>; from roylo@sr2c.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 09:41:16PM -0700 References: <007401c113fa$e025a600$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: <20010723222908.A1798@shell9.ba.best.com> Quoting roylo: > > Think about it, one day you walk down the street in Iraq and you got pick up > by the local > Islam police because you had a pork chop before you on board the plane to > Iraq. > Ok, maybe I can understand that ('cause it is Iraq") I know this is off topic and I really don't want to start a flamefest, but one of the things which has troubled me the most since joining this list and other various Dmitry discussions are the repeated references to other countries as examples of backwards places. I would appreciate it of we could tone down references such as, "It's like being in China" or whatever. Guess what--it's not in China or Iraq--it's here, the good old U.S. You should deal with that instead of making people wonder which you know less about--Islam or Iraq. The more we stick to the topic at hand instead of comparing the U.S. to "backwards" countries, the better off we'll all be. It's getting insulting. No, I'm not Iraqi. Or Chinese. Or Jewish. Tabinda -- From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Jul 23 22:32:23 2001 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you In-Reply-To: <20010723235545.17ac789f.warthawg@ecpi.com> Message-ID: <20010723223223.A21489@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> begin Joe Barr quotation: > Why is he still in jail? I mean, why hasn't he been bailed out? Do > our laws allow the FBI to just disappear someone by virtue of their > arrest? Is due process an antiquated notion? > > Would a lawyer please explain? [IANAL. This is not legal advice. Lawyers are free to point, stare, and giggle uncontrollably.] It's because the issue is not one of civil law. Civil law is an attempt to judge a complaint by one party ("A") that the other ("B") has wronged him, seeking an order that "B" do something (writ of mandamus), not do something (injunction), and/or pay him money to compensate him, and in some cases also to set an example. The alleged wrong is called a "tort". "A" is called plaintiff; "B" the defendant. Roughly speaking, a tort is failure to carry out a duty you owe some other party, or violation of that party's rights. Remedies available do _not_ include imprisonment. The Sklyarov case is one of _criminal_ law, which is wholly different. Perhaps people confuse the two because "B" is still called the defendant, but "A" is relevant to the case, if at all, only as a witness. "B" is brought to trial if and only if a representative of the state executive branch, the prosecutor, decides it's likely that "B" has committed a significant violation of the state or Federal criminal code. "A's" view of the matter need not be consulted; he's not the injured party in a criminal action. The theory behind criminal law is that the defendant is thought to have injured society -- not "A" -- through outright violation of some serious prohibition. The wrong in such a case is _not_ called a tort, but rather a crime. Remedies of course can include fines -- which do _not_ go to "A" -- and imprisonment. Please note that the entire "victim's rights movement" of recent vintage in the USA is founded on failure to comprehend this basic distinction between civil and criminal law, and the irrelevance of "A's" alleged suffering, emotional state, and opinions in the latter. In the case of Dmitry, it is entirely in the Federal prosecutor's discretion whether to drop charges. Such decisions are sometimes made on the basis of estimated likelihood of conviction (prosecutors hate to wreck their conviction percentages), and at other times on political grounds -- e.g., of a law being so widely hated that further prosecutions are inadvisable to prosecutors seeking (1) stress-free weekends and (2) higher office. Stepping back from the legal framework for a moment, it's interesting to note that Dmitry _absolutely_ qualifies as a political prisoner. -- Cheers, "I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate Rick Moen those who do. And, for the people who like country music, rick@linuxmafia.com denigrate means 'put down'." -- Bob Newhart From kyhwana at world-net.co.nz Mon Jul 23 22:24:47 2001 From: kyhwana at world-net.co.nz (Daniel Richards) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Cached copy of elcomsoft.com/aebpr.html Message-ID: <3B5DAF5F.32231.1583D1AA@localhost> Does anyone have a cached copy of the old aebpr.html page? (Don't visit it yet, otherwise you'll flush the old page!) If so, could they email it to me please? (as an attachment) http://www.boycottadobe.com Don't let companies make speech they don't like illegal! - Free Dmitry! Daniel Richards PGP Pub key: http://shell.world-net.co.nz/~kyhwana/DanielRPubKey.asc Fingerprint: 416D 4027 D635 AF51 F2BF 60DF 4D94 F7A0 9893 2848 From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 23 22:39:16 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress In-Reply-To: <20010723165157.C6225@cluebot.com> References: <4.2.0.58.20010722192458.01587e50@students.uiuc.edu> <20010723165157.C6225@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <874rs2khrv.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "DM" == Declan McCullagh writes: JSH> Speaking of Congress, is there a list anywhere of Senators and JSH> Representatives who oppose DMCA or who are "friendly" to this JSH> issue? DM> It's a short list. The DMCA passed without objection in both DM> chambers. Zero? Whew! I thought it was gonna be a tough number to remember, like 37 or something. Zero is a piece of cake. I don't even have to write that one down. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 23 17:18:05 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe dropping charges, US Pressing ahead In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723195632.00afe9a0@mail.utstar.com>; from snair@utstar.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 07:57:35PM -0400 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723195632.00afe9a0@mail.utstar.com> Message-ID: <20010723171805.Y98211@networkcommand.com> Channel 5 just reported that Adobe is going to DROP THE CHARGES. US is pressing ahead. http://www.anti-dmca.org We will win! On 23-Jul-2001, Sreeni R. Nair wrote: > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45489,00.html !!! > > > > The ordinary man acts because he thinks his act will be profitable; the > superior man, however, acts because he thinks his act is right. > -- Confucius > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From robin at eff.org Mon Jul 23 22:40:08 2001 From: robin at eff.org (Robin Gross) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thank You All! In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010723202513.027417b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.0.0.25.2.20010723202513.027417b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010723223759.027335e0@pop3.norton.antivirus> I believe that we are on the same side - even if we may disagree on tactics. No offense taken :) Robin At 09:29 PM 7/23/2001 -0700, Derek Balling wrote: >No offense, but this coming from the organization that claimed they "could >not support the protesting"? > >This seems a little... I dunno... hypocritical. > >I understand that the end result was good, but to imply that "the >protestors" and "the EFF" were any kind of "team" is definitely (as far as >I can tell) not the case at all. The EFF tries now to skate through the >best of both worlds, disavowing themselves of the protestors and hanging >them out to dry, and now claiming they were "part of the team" and a part >of some "combined energy". > >Pick a side of the fence and stay on it. :) > >D > > >At 9:15 PM -0700 7/23/01, Robin Gross wrote: >>Thank you all for organizing so quickly and focusing your support so >>effectively in this shared effort to free Dmitry and repeal this harmful >>Act of Congress. >> >>I wish I could express how grateful we were at while at Adobe in the >>negotiations today to be able to see the public supporters outside. There >>is no question that it made all the difference in the day's >>outcome. This applies equally to both those who were right outside the >>window as well as from protesters all over the world. >>Today's victory belongs to you folks. >> >>This experience clearly shows that when we focus our combined energy we >>can get results. Now the DOJ and Robert Mueller must be convinced its >>not in their best interests to pursue this prosecution. >> >>Thank you, >>Robin > >-- >+---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ >| dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | >| Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | >| | driven before you, and to hear the | >| | lamentation of their women!" | >+---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Robin D. Gross - Cyberspace Attorney @ Law Electronic Frontier Foundation 454 Shotwell Street, San Francisco, CA 94110 e: robin@eff.org w: http://www.eff.org p: 415.863.5459 f: 415.436.9993 http://www.eff.org/cafe http://www.eff.org/Intellectual_property/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From roylo at sr2c.com Mon Jul 23 22:45:35 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you References: <007401c113fa$e025a600$0200a8c0@jwin> <20010723222908.A1798@shell9.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <009f01c11403$dc6d69e0$0200a8c0@jwin> First of all, I'm sorry if I have offended you in anyway. And I want you to know that was not my intension Second, I'm Chinese myself (1st generation immigrant) Being raised in US, I have always believed in freedom. In the past years many crackers/hackers has been arrested in this country (US); Which was fine with me. ('cause they are American and breaking US law in US) But, Dmitry's case is different. And it really makes me think about the value that I grow up with in this country (The Land of Freedom??) I believe in freedom and I think it was wrong for FBI to arrest Dmitry and to hold him in jail. I'm sorry if I have offended anyone with my "bad" examples, but I hope I got my message through. thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tabinda N. Khan" To: "roylo" Cc: Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you > Quoting roylo: > > > > Think about it, one day you walk down the street in Iraq and you got pick up > > by the local > > Islam police because you had a pork chop before you on board the plane to > > Iraq. > > Ok, maybe I can understand that ('cause it is Iraq") > > I know this is off topic and I really don't want to start a > flamefest, but one of the things which has troubled me the > most since joining this list and other various Dmitry > discussions are the repeated references to other countries as > examples of backwards places. I would appreciate it of we > could tone down references such as, "It's like being in China" > or whatever. Guess what--it's not in China or Iraq--it's here, > the good old U.S. You should deal with that instead of > making people wonder which you know less about--Islam or Iraq. > > The more we stick to the topic at hand instead of comparing > the U.S. to "backwards" countries, the better off we'll all > be. It's getting insulting. No, I'm not Iraqi. Or Chinese. Or > Jewish. > > Tabinda > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From ausage at ausage.com Mon Jul 23 22:45:12 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072401451208.20962@frankie> On July 24, 2001 12:49 am, Peter wrote: > No, unfortunatly they do have the right. We only can get them with > violation of international human rights if they have not told Dmitry > that he has the right to contact his Ambassy. The is a very common occurance in the US of A. Texas has gone so far as to arrest, try, convict and sentence to death a Canadian citizen with either informing the Canadian gov't or telling the accused that he had the right to seek assistance from the Canadian Consul. Atfer this can to light, dispite the breach of internional treaties and the appeals of the Canadian government the poor man was executed (no pun intended). Perhaps that is why the Canadian gov't will often grant "political asylum" to fugitive Americans. -- Andrew Lawrence Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 From jssj2001 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 23 22:52:14 2001 From: jssj2001 at hotmail.com (y s) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: So Sad Message-ID: Peter, is your definition of jerk: "Anybody who disagrees with me"? Advanced eBook Processor (AEBPR) was available from www.regnow.com after ElcomSoft stopped selling it directly. It was purchased by Adobe on June,26 for $99 (see "Originalcomplaint", page 5, http://www.usaondca.com/press/assets/applets/2001_07_17_sklyarov.pdf) >From: "Peter" >Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Re: So Sad >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 00:17:41 -0400 > >Geez....what a jerk. Probably he thinks that Defcon is an Software >auction. Elcomsoft stopped the sale way before Dmitry came to Las Vegas. >Peter > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 23 22:58:34 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe dropping charges, US Pressing ahead In-Reply-To: <20010723171805.Y98211@networkcommand.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723195632.00afe9a0@mail.utstar.com> <20010723171805.Y98211@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <87wv4yj2b9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JO" == Jon O writes: JO> Channel 5 just reported that Adobe is going to DROP THE JO> CHARGES. JO> US is pressing ahead. Can you back this part up? Is that an official policy by the DoJ/USA? Declan has a couple of semi-depressing quotes in his "Release The Russian" article, but they sound kind of cagey. Do we need to _wait_ for their decision process, or try and influence? I dunno, I guess I just don't think the Feds are going to go over like Adobe. We would probably need _bigger_ events for a Federal protest, at least here in SF. We blew a big steam head today, and it's gonna be hard to do that again in less than 2 weeks (guesstimate). "What, Dmitry Sklyarov? AGAIN? I just went down to Adobe and freed him last Monday." Anyone know when Mueller's going up for his exams? By the time he does, will he still be US Attorney? Gar gar gar! Strategy is haaard! ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 23 23:07:02 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WTO + WIPO = DMCA In-Reply-To: <874rs2khrv.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 10:39:16PM -0700 References: <4.2.0.58.20010722192458.01587e50@students.uiuc.edu> <20010723165157.C6225@cluebot.com> <874rs2khrv.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010723230701.U98211@networkcommand.com> Ask yourself: Which comes first the Rights of the Individual or the Corporation? If you said individual, you're right. Now what is the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) doing passing laws in the US? Read on. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why did Congress pass the DMCA? The World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) drafted an international treaty that requires signatory nations to enforce particular rights in their own laws. Some believed that further U.S. legislation was necessary to implement U.S. adherence to the treaty. The result was the DMCA. That is why it is sometimes referred to as the WIPO Treaty Implementing Legislation. How is the DMCA related to the WTO? The World Trade Organization (WTO) meets once a year to discuss policy and law. These policies and laws must be enacted by the signatory Nations. People all over the world meet during WTO meetings to protest Globalization. Why? Well, there are many reasons. But know this - they are making laws and signing treaties without your input. The DMCA is a result of one of these treaties. Here in the US the arrests and cases on this site are just the first effects of these meetings. Take a look at this http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/trips_e/intel3_e.htm So how does this effect me? Look to history for your answer. Quite some time ago, our leaders met to discuss policy and create laws. These laws became The Constitution of the United States of America. If you have reviewed our Cases section you will see that our laws are being changed to accomodate the laws passed by the (WTO). Dmitry Sklyarov is in jail because of these laws. Professor Felten has been silenced by these laws. What is the Digital Millenium Copyright Act? Copyright, in the United States, is an attempt to maximize the intellectual resources available to all. People who create works - literature, art, software programs, music, and others - are given a limited right to keep people from making unauthorized copies of their work. This allows them to sell copies for a profit and provides a financial incentive to create more works. http://www.anti-dmca.org/faq.html From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 23 23:10:14 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe dropping charges, US Pressing ahead In-Reply-To: <87wv4yj2b9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 10:58:34PM -0700 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723195632.00afe9a0@mail.utstar.com> <20010723171805.Y98211@networkcommand.com> <87wv4yj2b9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010723231014.V98211@networkcommand.com> > > I dunno, I guess I just don't think the Feds are going to go over like > Adobe. We would probably need _bigger_ events for a Federal protest, > at least here in SF. We blew a big steam head today, and it's gonna be > hard to do that again in less than 2 weeks (guesstimate). You might want to talk with some of the G-8 protest organizations. Explain to them about the DMCA and how it relates to the WTO and WIPO. Then ask for help. > > "What, Dmitry Sklyarov? AGAIN? I just went down to Adobe and freed him From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 23 23:11:54 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:10 2005 Subject: [nylug-talk] RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87k80yj1p1.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JS" == Jay Sulzberger writes: JS> Not for next Monday's protest. Urgh, I was worried someone was going to say the "M" word. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Mon Jul 23 23:00:36 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (no subject) Message-ID: If I knew a witty internet aphorism about getting slashdotted, I'd put it here. The initial rush is over, you should be able to view the pics at http://www.underwhelm.org/freedima now (still slow, it's on DSL). Neale Pickett has graciously provided a mirror at http://ooz.net/~neale/freedima/ Keep in mind that these were taken with an eyemodule. Think of it as experimental art photography. DMCA Verite'. From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Mon Jul 23 23:13:38 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] in a few minutes: sf bay area kpix channel 5 Message-ID: report coming up in a few minutes, just announced in previews. should also appear on channel 7 before the hour is over. if people don't want to hear these alerts, flame offlist, and i won't bother with this feed... -- -alexf From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 23 23:18:24 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe dropping charges, US Pressing ahead In-Reply-To: <20010723231014.V98211@networkcommand.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723195632.00afe9a0@mail.utstar.com> <20010723171805.Y98211@networkcommand.com> <87wv4yj2b9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010723231014.V98211@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <87g0bmj1e7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JO" == Jon O writes: Me> We blew a big steam head today, and it's gonna be hard to do Me> that again in less than 2 weeks (guesstimate). JO> You might want to talk with some of the G-8 protest JO> organizations. Explain to them about the DMCA and how it JO> relates to the WTO and WIPO. Then ask for help. You know what? I'm retracting my previous statement. I'm not going to say we can't bring down a MEGA-GEEK LIGHTNING PROTEST SHIT HAMMER on any party that continues to stand in the way of the freedom of Dmitry Sklyarov. PH33R US! ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu Tue Jul 24 03:19:42 2001 From: junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu (Peter D. Junger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:53:01 PDT." <01072320530107.15652@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <200107241019.f6OAJhw25566@samsara.law.cwru.edu> "Mark K. Bilbo" writes: : > The next weakest link is Mueller. He will want to be confirmed with : > absolutely no controvery surrounding his position. We must start banging : > our drums and shouting very loudly - starting NOW - that Sklyarov was : > arrested illegally even under the strictest interpretation of the DMCA. We : > must criticize Mueller for wanting to head a lawless bureau that cares : > nothing for the laws it is supposed to respect and uphold. We must make : > this incident as embarrassing for him as possible - so he will resolve it : > quickly and quietly. It may not be fair, but I cannot help remarking, now that Robert Mueller is nominated to be head of the FBI, that during WW II the head of the Gestapo was ``Gestapo" Mueller. -- Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH EMAIL: junger@samsara.law.cwru.edu URL: http://samsara.law.cwru.edu NOTE: junger@pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu no longer exists From travel at elcomsoft.com Mon Jul 23 16:34:43 2001 From: travel at elcomsoft.com (Vladimir Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Good news Message-ID: <224508090.20010724033443@elcomsoft.com> Hi all, Some news -- believe me that they're good. Susan Prescott (Adobe) called Alexander Katalov (ElcomSoft), and after some conversation they agreed to have a meeting on Wednesday, to find a solution in the current situation. She also informed that Adobe will prepare an official press release and publish it very soon (probably, already today). That's all we can say for now, sorry. /Vladimir From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 23 23:24:41 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Calls for Programmer's Release In-Reply-To: <224508090.20010724033443@elcomsoft.com>; from travel@elcomsoft.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:34:43AM +0400 References: <224508090.20010724033443@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: <20010723232441.W98211@networkcommand.com> Adobe Calls for Programmer's Release http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010723/tc/hacker_convention_arrest_3.html Adobe Seeks Release of Russian http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010723/wr/tech_hacker_dc_3.html On 24-Jul-2001, Vladimir Katalov wrote: > Hi all, > > Some news -- believe me that they're good. > > Susan Prescott (Adobe) called Alexander Katalov (ElcomSoft), and after > some conversation they agreed to have a meeting on Wednesday, to find > a solution in the current situation. She also informed that Adobe will > prepare an official press release and publish it very soon (probably, > already today). > > That's all we can say for now, sorry. > > /Vladimir > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 23 23:28:59 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Calls for Programmer's Release In-Reply-To: <20010723232441.W98211@networkcommand.com> References: <224508090.20010724033443@elcomsoft.com> <20010723232441.W98211@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <8766cij0wk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JO" == Jon O writes: JO> Adobe Calls for Programmer's Release JO> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010723/tc/hacker_convention_arrest_3.html What an idiot! 30 people, indeed! JO> Adobe Seeks Release of Russian JO> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010723/wr/tech_hacker_dc_3.html Now THERE is some fine reporting. 100 people! Good counting skills are key for any journalist. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Mon Jul 23 23:29:37 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] sf bay area channels 5&7 on San Jose protest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: kpix 5: covered the facts of what's going on, a solid 15 seconds or so from Shari Steele (EFF) explaining the situation, some more explanations from the reporter, and the final outcome kgo 7: covered only "hey look there're these geeks and they're protesting this DMCA thing." unless I missed something, it sounded like they never actually said anything about the decision reached by Adobe. maybe report was put together too early in the day or something... On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Alex Fabrikant wrote: > report coming up in a few minutes, just announced in previews. should also > appear on channel 7 before the hour is over. if people don't want to hear > these alerts, flame offlist, and i won't bother with this feed... > > -- -alexf From adobe at artemas.reachin.com Mon Jul 23 23:34:21 2001 From: adobe at artemas.reachin.com (adobe@artemas.reachin.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] in a few minutes: sf bay area kpix channel 5 In-Reply-To: ; from alexf@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:13:38PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010723233421.B20352@artemas.reachin.com> > report coming up in a few minutes, just announced in previews. should also > appear on channel 7 before the hour is over. if people don't want to hear > these alerts, flame offlist, and i won't bother with this feed... The coverage on Kpix was far more extensive, including an interview with a person from the EFF, and both a note about the DMCA being unconstitutional, and a note that Adobe "backed down". The overage on challen 7 was much briefer, only noting that we are trying to free Demitry, and not pointing out that Adobe backed down. - Sam From tom at lemuria.org Mon Jul 23 23:30:47 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe, Electronic Frontier Foundation Call for Release of Russian Programmer Message-ID: <20010724083044.A14964@lemuria.org> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 04:10:29AM +0400, Vladimir Katalov wrote: > http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/010723/0667.html well, we got our first victory here. the important thing to do now is use it to STRENGTHEN the movement, instead of weakening it. anything I can do from 8 timezones away? -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 23 23:36:01 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Total Coverage From The Journal Of Record Message-ID: <871yn6j0ku.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Pigdog Journal, setting the standard. http://www.pigdog.org/auto/Power_Corrupts/link/2164.html Boy howdy, that's some damn fine reporting. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 23 23:36:22 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Calls for Programmer's Release In-Reply-To: <8766cij0wk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:28:59PM -0700 References: <224508090.20010724033443@elcomsoft.com> <20010723232441.W98211@networkcommand.com> <8766cij0wk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010723233621.X98211@networkcommand.com> Here is the adobe release. Man, I swore it said something else about 12 hours ago...Maybe its just me. http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/20010723dcma.html And yes, it too has the "Rate this page" floating function. From kris at firstworld.net Mon Jul 23 23:35:45 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Snail-mail to Dmitry Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010723232512.00a44320@pop.firstworld.net> Does anybody know where to send snail-mail messages to Dmitry and if said messages will actually reach him? Further, does anyone know how proficient he is in English? I'm sure he'd like to know that there are a number of people working very hard to get him out of jail and I doubt the Feds have given him access to email. I'd also like to personally apologize to him for pain, humiliation and suffering he has endured because of certain actions idiotic of the U.S government and let him know that I'm deeply embarrassed about what has happened to him in my country. Kris From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 23 23:39:11 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Letter To Mueller Message-ID: <87vgkihlv4.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Hey, is it time yet for a simple letter to Mueller, maybe from the EFF? "Dude, drop this case already." Or something to that effect? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From roylo at sr2c.com Mon Jul 23 23:38:35 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WTO + WIPO = DMCA References: <4.2.0.58.20010722192458.01587e50@students.uiuc.edu> <20010723165157.C6225@cluebot.com> <874rs2khrv.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010723230701.U98211@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <003501c1140b$43e59640$0200a8c0@jwin> So, does that mean Dmitry can(is going to) be in jail for awhile? I'm not a lawyer and I don't know those law; but all I know is that, it is wrong to keep someone like Dmitry in jail. With Adobe backing down now; There "might" be a chance that Dmitry can be released. However, it seems like US can/might press charges on Dmitry (can someone clarify this for me?) Let's see how does it goes tomorrow, if things doesn't work out. We should really start another protest. 'cause I really don't think Dmitry should spend anymore nights in jail instead of with his family. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon O ." To: "Klepht" Cc: Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 11:07 PM Subject: [free-sklyarov] WTO + WIPO = DMCA > > > > > Ask yourself: Which comes first the Rights of the Individual or the Corporation? > > If you said individual, you're right. Now what is the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) doing passing laws in the US? Read on. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > > Why did Congress pass the DMCA? > > The World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) drafted an international treaty that requires signatory nations to enforce particular rights in their own laws. Some believed that further U.S. legislation was necessary to implement U.S. adherence to the treaty. The result was the DMCA. That is why it is sometimes referred to as the WIPO Treaty Implementing Legislation. > How is the DMCA related to the WTO? > > > The World Trade Organization (WTO) meets once a year to discuss policy and law. These policies and laws must be enacted by the signatory Nations. People all over the world meet during WTO meetings to protest Globalization. Why? Well, there are many reasons. But know this - they are making laws and signing treaties without your input. The DMCA is a result of one of these treaties. Here in the US the arrests and cases on this site are just the first effects of these meetings. Take a look at this > http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/trips_e/intel3_e.htm > > > So how does this effect me? > > Look to history for your answer. Quite some time ago, our leaders met to discuss policy and create laws. These laws became The Constitution of the United States of America. If you have reviewed our Cases section you will see that our laws are being changed to accomodate the laws passed by the (WTO). Dmitry Sklyarov is in jail > because of these laws. Professor Felten has been silenced by these laws. > > What is the Digital Millenium Copyright Act? > > Copyright, in the United States, is an attempt to maximize the intellectual resources available to all. People who create works - literature, art, software programs, music, and others - are given a limited right to keep people from making unauthorized copies of their work. This allows them to sell copies for a profit and provides a financial incentive to create more works. > > http://www.anti-dmca.org/faq.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jays at panix.com Mon Jul 23 23:42:12 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:11 2005 Subject: [nylug-talk] RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: <87k80yj1p1.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: On 23 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "JS" == Jay Sulzberger writes: > > JS> Not for next Monday's protest. > > Urgh, I was worried someone was going to say the "M" word. > > ~Klepht I think in New York we may protest Mondays at the New York Public Library. oo--JS. From jhclouse at juno.com Mon Jul 23 23:49:17 2001 From: jhclouse at juno.com (Jason H Clouse) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Is he being held in solitary? Message-ID: <20010724.024918.-638581.3.jhclouse@juno.com> Is Dmitry being held in solitary confinement? I sure hope so. Those prisons are awfully nasty.... J ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 23 23:45:08 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:11 2005 Subject: [nylug-talk] RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87n15uhll7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JS" == Jay Sulzberger writes: JS> I think in New York we may protest Mondays at the New York JS> Public Library. Jay, Not that I'd tell you what to do or anything... but aren't you a little worried that if you make it a regular thing, it'll get stale real fast? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From kris at firstworld.net Mon Jul 23 23:45:36 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] More Dmitry Protest Coverage Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010723234430.00af45e0@pop.firstworld.net> http://www.pigdog.org/auto/Power_Corrupts/link/2164.html Kris From pablos at kadrevis.com Mon Jul 23 23:48:38 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] VERY GOOD OBSERVATION Robert Mueller (fwd) Message-ID: <800452.995932118@[10.0.1.220]> Hey, I don't use ALL CAPS unless I mean it. This was posted once, but maybe you ignored it. Everybody needs to go directly after Mueller next. pablos. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Monday, July 23, 2001 10:54 PM -0400 From: Izel Sulam To: "free-sklyarov@zork.net" Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller Mark K. Bilbo mark@blorch.org wrote: > Which means one of the next tactics should probably include a campaign to > make this a confirmation issue. I think we are seeing the focus of our next set of protests forming here. Our first set of protests were basically an Adobe smear campaign and they worked. We attracted attention to Adobe's lousy security and fradulent business tactics through messageboards, websites and protests. Adobe had to do everything in its power to control damage. They are out of the picture now. They were the weakest link, goodbye. The next weakest link is Mueller. He will want to be confirmed with absolutely no controvery surrounding his position. We must start banging our drums and shouting very loudly - starting NOW - that Sklyarov was arrested illegally even under the strictest interpretation of the DMCA. We must criticize Mueller for wanting to head a lawless bureau that cares nothing for the laws it is supposed to respect and uphold. We must make this incident as embarrassing for him as possible - so he will resolve it quickly and quietly. Comments, suggestions welcome. - izel _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From roylo at sr2c.com Mon Jul 23 23:48:31 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Calls for Programmer's Release References: <224508090.20010724033443@elcomsoft.com> <20010723232441.W98211@networkcommand.com> <8766cij0wk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010723233621.X98211@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <008701c1140c$a6fac560$0200a8c0@jwin> According to that Press Release: Sklyarov was arrested July 16 on a criminal complaint filed by the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of California under the DMCA. ElcomSoft is the Moscow-based company employing Sklyarov. and from http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/contact/usalist.html#can Robert S. Mueller, III, United States Attorney 450 Golden Gate Ave., Box 36055, San Francisco 94102 *1301 Clay St., Ste. 340S, Oakland 94612 280 South First St., Rm. 371, San Jose 95113 hmm... that looks like a good place for the next protest ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon O ." To: "Klepht" Cc: Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 11:36 PM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Adobe Calls for Programmer's Release > > Here is the adobe release. Man, I swore it said something else about 12 > hours ago...Maybe its just me. > > http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/20010723dcma. html > > And yes, it too has the "Rate this page" floating function. > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From sam at dasbistro.com Mon Jul 23 23:55:33 2001 From: sam at dasbistro.com (Sam Phillips) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A Few Words in the Aftermath In-Reply-To: <20010723174804.Z98211@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 05:48:04PM -0700 References: <20010723174804.Z98211@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010723235533.A12936@dasbistro.com> On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 05:48:04PM -0700, Jon O . wrote: > > Also, the TV media is spinning the story as, "Russian arrested for something > legal in his country." That is not the issue. The DMCA is, which is also part > of a treaty with other countries. Furthermore, we need to the right to audit > security on these types of devices > I don't remember what the TV media here said exactly but I know the words "outraged computer professionals" "programmer arrested in Las Vegas" and "DMCA" were all involved. -- Sam Phillips http://www.dasbistro.com Reno Nevada From jays at panix.com Tue Jul 24 00:00:10 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:12 2005 Subject: [nylug-talk] RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: <87n15uhll7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: On 23 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "JS" == Jay Sulzberger writes: > > JS> I think in New York we may protest Mondays at the New York > JS> Public Library. > > Jay, > > Not that I'd tell you what to do or anything... but aren't you a > little worried that if you make it a regular thing, it'll get stale > real fast? > > ~Klepht Well, we just had our first rally today, but it looks as we may need to apply repeated hot and cold compresses, clysters, blood-lettings, bone-breakings and resettings, trans-urethral silver salts and arsenical compounds, and bull-roarers to the body politic to purge the DMCA-induced surfeit of black bile. oo--JS. From rabbi at quickie.net Tue Jul 24 00:00:12 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thank You All! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As one of the organizers of the protests, I've never been disappointed with the EFF's actions in this case. The EFF has done everything it can to help set Dmitry free. Please, don't criticize the EFF. Without having them at the table today with Adobe, we'd have had a mere demonstration instead of a victory. Len On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Derek Balling wrote: > No offense, but this coming from the organization that claimed they > "could not support the protesting"? > > This seems a little... I dunno... hypocritical. > > I understand that the end result was good, but to imply that "the > protestors" and "the EFF" were any kind of "team" is definitely (as > far as I can tell) not the case at all. The EFF tries now to skate > through the best of both worlds, disavowing themselves of the > protestors and hanging them out to dry, and now claiming they were > "part of the team" and a part of some "combined energy". > > Pick a side of the fence and stay on it. :) > > D > > > At 9:15 PM -0700 7/23/01, Robin Gross wrote: > >Thank you all for organizing so quickly and focusing your support so > >effectively in this shared effort to free Dmitry and repeal this > >harmful Act of Congress. > > > >I wish I could express how grateful we were at while at Adobe in the > >negotiations today to be able to see the public supporters outside. > >There is no question that it made all the difference in the day's > >outcome. This applies equally to both those who were right outside > >the window as well as from protesters all over the world. > >Today's victory belongs to you folks. > > > >This experience clearly shows that when we focus our combined energy > >we can get results. Now the DOJ and Robert Mueller must be > >convinced its not in their best interests to pursue this prosecution. > > > >Thank you, > >Robin > > -- > +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ > | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | > | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | > | | driven before you, and to hear the | > | | lamentation of their women!" | > +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From jono at microshaft.org Tue Jul 24 00:01:05 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WTO + WIPO = DMCA In-Reply-To: <003501c1140b$43e59640$0200a8c0@jwin>; from roylo@sr2c.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:38:35PM -0700 References: <4.2.0.58.20010722192458.01587e50@students.uiuc.edu> <20010723165157.C6225@cluebot.com> <874rs2khrv.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010723230701.U98211@networkcommand.com> <003501c1140b$43e59640$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: <20010724000104.Z98211@networkcommand.com> On 23-Jul-2001, roylo wrote: > So, does that mean Dmitry can(is going to) be in jail for awhile? > I'm not a lawyer and I don't know those law; but all I know is that, it is > wrong to keep someone like Dmitry in jail. > > With Adobe backing down now; There "might" be a chance that Dmitry can be > released. > However, it seems like US can/might press charges on Dmitry (can someone > clarify this for me?) I'm not sure either. We will see how it plays out. The problem is that people need to start thinking in term of the source. Who made this law? The US. Why? The WIPO. And the WIPO and WTO are buddies. Think about the meetings. All these leaders. What do you think they are thinking? They are thinking this WTO thing makes them like Rutledge, Franklin, etc. This is a congressman's, house reps, presidents wet dream. They are establishing new rules. They should be on our side NOT THE CORPORATIONS. > > Let's see how does it goes tomorrow, if things doesn't work out. We should > really start another protest. > > 'cause I really don't think Dmitry should spend anymore nights in jail > instead of with his family. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jon O ." > To: "Klepht" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 11:07 PM > Subject: [free-sklyarov] WTO + WIPO = DMCA > > > > > > > > > > > > Ask yourself: Which comes first the Rights of the Individual or the > Corporation? > > > > If you said individual, you're right. Now what is the World Intellectual > Property Organization (WIPO) doing passing laws in the US? Read on. > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > > > > > > Why did Congress pass the DMCA? > > > > The World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) drafted an > international treaty that requires signatory nations to enforce particular > rights in their own laws. Some believed that further U.S. legislation was > necessary to implement U.S. adherence to the treaty. The result was the > DMCA. That is why it is sometimes referred to as the WIPO Treaty > Implementing Legislation. > > How is the DMCA related to the WTO? > > > > > > The World Trade Organization (WTO) meets once a year to discuss policy and > law. These policies and laws must be enacted by the signatory Nations. > People all over the world meet during WTO meetings to protest Globalization. > Why? Well, there are many reasons. But know this - they are making laws and > signing treaties without your input. The DMCA is a result of one of these > treaties. Here in the US the arrests and cases on this site are just the > first effects of these meetings. Take a look at this > > http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/trips_e/intel3_e.htm > > > > > > So how does this effect me? > > > > Look to history for your answer. Quite some time ago, our leaders met to > discuss policy and create laws. These laws became The Constitution of the > United States of America. If you have reviewed our Cases section you will > see that our laws are being changed to accomodate the laws passed by the > (WTO). Dmitry Sklyarov is in jail > > because of these laws. Professor Felten has been silenced by these laws. > > > > What is the Digital Millenium Copyright Act? > > > > Copyright, in the United States, is an attempt to maximize the > intellectual resources available to all. People who create works - > literature, art, software programs, music, and others - are given a limited > right to keep people from making unauthorized copies of their work. This > allows them to sell copies for a profit and provides a financial incentive > to create more works. > > > > http://www.anti-dmca.org/faq.html > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From mlc67 at columbia.edu Tue Jul 24 00:03:18 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: <87n15uhll7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:45:08PM -0700 References: <87n15uhll7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010724000318.A14858@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> A friend of mine tells the following anecdote. I believe that it's basically true, though I've never tried to verify it and some of the details are probably off. Brown University in Providence, RI, US is famous for its essentially requirement-free curriculum. (i.e., you can take basically whatever courses you want, except of course for those courses needed for your major.) When the student who came up with this idea first had it, he decided he was going to have a rally every Friday to push for it. The first week he had it, only a few of his friends showed up. The next week, there were like 10 people there, and so on until the rally had grown to the point where thousands of people were showing up and the administration could no longer ignore them. Thus, the genesis of Brown's free-choice curriculum. The point is, doing the same thing every week, while it may sometimes get "stale", can be incredibly effective. mike On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:45:08PM -0700, Klepht wrote: > > Jay, > > Not that I'd tell you what to do or anything... but aren't you a > little worried that if you make it a regular thing, it'll get stale > real fast? > > ~Klepht -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // cell: +1 (646) 382-7220 // "facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - aldous huxley -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010724/ca9eb959/attachment.pgp From byoungvt at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 00:06:51 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] San Jose Rally Pictures Message-ID: <20010724070651.70756.qmail@web14510.mail.yahoo.com> Here is a link to my page with pictures from today's rally outside Adobe's HQ: http://sjrally.n3.net BJY From marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca Tue Jul 24 00:16:25 2001 From: marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca (Marvin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Good news In-Reply-To: <224508090.20010724033443@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: Vladimir, I hope you are getting good legal advice. Because when I read Adobe's statement, I see two things: 1) Adobe is playing a full corporate power game. They are calculating that having Sklyarov as a hostage is the method they will use to keep people from further organizing boycotts against Adobe. So long as people hope that Adobe can help release Sklyarov they will be afraid to engage in boycotts against them. There is no expression of remorse in the Adobe statement, and no promise of recompense. 2) Adobe seems to imply that the real problem is that the FBI has the wrong man in jail, and the right man should be YOU! -- but that they will forgive you if you comply with keeping your software out of the commercial market. The problem, is that with the kind of clarification that Adobe is making, I wouldn't be surprised if the FBI was waiting for you as soon as you leave the conference with Adobe. The FBI plays this kind of a game all the time. And they have no notion of forgiving anyone, especially when they are as embarassed at they are this time. And of course, Adobe will say that it was out of their hands. Austin Hook Calgary On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Vladimir Katalov wrote: > Hi all, > > Some news -- believe me that they're good. > > Susan Prescott (Adobe) called Alexander Katalov (ElcomSoft), and after > some conversation they agreed to have a meeting on Wednesday, to find > a solution in the current situation. She also informed that Adobe will > prepare an official press release and publish it very soon (probably, > already today). > > That's all we can say for now, sorry. > > /Vladimir From n6mod at milewski.org Tue Jul 24 00:11:15 2001 From: n6mod at milewski.org (Aleksandr Milewski) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thank You All! In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010723202513.027417b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: At 9:29 PM -0700 on 7/23/01, Derek Balling commanded the electrons to create a missive titled "Re: [free-sklyarov] Thank You All!": |No offense, but this coming from the organization that claimed they "could not support the protesting"? | |This seems a little... I dunno... hypocritical. Not at all. At least not how it looks from here. Adobe asked the EFF to "do what they could to hold off the protests." As the EFF didn't call the protests in the first place, they didn't have much to lose, and if it got them to the table, everything to gain by agreeing. I forget who it was that pointed out that we should "read between the lines," but we did, and it worked. To Robin and everyone else at the EFF, thank you! It made a difference to those of us on the sidewalk to know that someone was inside beating the suits at their own game. Thanks again! -Zandr -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Aleksandr Milewski N6MOD n6mod@milewski.org http://www.milewski.org/ From me at ryanmarsh.com Mon Jul 23 22:13:31 2001 From: me at ryanmarsh.com (Ryan Marsh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] sf bay area channels 5&7 on San Jose protest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <995951611.8041.7.camel@cocoon.butterflysoft.org> Channel 11 (San Jose) did a very good explanation of the issues. They also interviewed me and I got to behold my ugly mug on the screen for a brief rant. The reporter's explanation of the DMCA was very simple and effective. Using a normal household lock he said something to the effect of: "If I own this lock I can do whatever I want with it. I can use it to lock and protect my home, I can take it apart and fix it or make it better, I can sell it, or I can even destory it if I want. It is mine. That's not so for software under the DMCA. You don't control the access and you can't do just anything you want with it, even though you own it." Oh yeah, they also said that Adobe agreed to drop the charges but that did not mean that the DoJ would drop the case. -ryan On 23 Jul 2001 23:29:37 -0700, Alex Fabrikant wrote: > kpix 5: covered the facts of what's going on, a solid 15 seconds or so > from Shari Steele (EFF) explaining the situation, some more explanations > from the reporter, and the final outcome > > kgo 7: covered only "hey look there're these geeks and they're protesting > this DMCA thing." unless I missed something, it sounded like they > never actually said anything about the decision reached by > Adobe. maybe report was put together too early in the day or something... > > On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Alex Fabrikant wrote: > > > report coming up in a few minutes, just announced in previews. should also > > appear on channel 7 before the hour is over. if people don't want to hear > > these alerts, flame offlist, and i won't bother with this feed... > > > > > > -- > -alexf > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Regards, -ryan The three great virtues of programming are laziness, impatience, and hubris, but bigotry makes the open-source world go round. From freesk at hackhawk.net Tue Jul 24 00:25:13 2001 From: freesk at hackhawk.net (hackhawk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thank You All! In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010723223759.027335e0@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010723202513.027417b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.0.0.25.2.20010723202513.027417b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010724001537.00a32cd0@localhost> I think there's nothing hypocritical about how the EFF behaved. Whether intentional or not, the EFF achieved two things with thier backing out of supporting the protests/rallies. They secured the meeting with Adobe most likely because of this stance. Yet it was done in just the right way to keep the protests on for backup support. Adobe believes the EFF has acted in good faith, yet the protests added the support they may have really needed. Its a classic case of Good Cop/Bad Cop. We were the Bad Cop(s). ;-) Good Job to all of us working together!!! - hh At 10:40 PM 7/23/01 -0700, Robin Gross wrote: >I believe that we are on the same side - even if we may disagree on tactics. > >No offense taken :) > >Robin > > >At 09:29 PM 7/23/2001 -0700, Derek Balling wrote: >>No offense, but this coming from the organization that claimed they >>"could not support the protesting"? >> >>This seems a little... I dunno... hypocritical. >> >>I understand that the end result was good, but to imply that "the >>protestors" and "the EFF" were any kind of "team" is definitely (as far >>as I can tell) not the case at all. The EFF tries now to skate through >>the best of both worlds, disavowing themselves of the protestors and >>hanging them out to dry, and now claiming they were "part of the team" >>and a part of some "combined energy". >> >>Pick a side of the fence and stay on it. :) >> >>D >> >> >>At 9:15 PM -0700 7/23/01, Robin Gross wrote: >>>Thank you all for organizing so quickly and focusing your support so >>>effectively in this shared effort to free Dmitry and repeal this harmful >>>Act of Congress. >>> >>>I wish I could express how grateful we were at while at Adobe in the >>>negotiations today to be able to see the public supporters outside. >>>There is no question that it made all the difference in the day's >>>outcome. This applies equally to both those who were right outside the >>>window as well as from protesters all over the world. >>>Today's victory belongs to you folks. >>> >>>This experience clearly shows that when we focus our combined energy we >>>can get results. Now the DOJ and Robert Mueller must be convinced its >>>not in their best interests to pursue this prosecution. >>> >>>Thank you, >>>Robin >> >>-- >>+---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ >>| dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | >>| Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | >>| | driven before you, and to hear the | >>| | lamentation of their women!" | >>+---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Robin D. Gross - Cyberspace Attorney @ Law >Electronic Frontier Foundation >454 Shotwell Street, San Francisco, CA 94110 >e: robin@eff.org w: http://www.eff.org >p: 415.863.5459 f: 415.436.9993 >http://www.eff.org/cafe >http://www.eff.org/Intellectual_property/ >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jono at microshaft.org Tue Jul 24 00:28:25 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Cracking activity In-Reply-To: <20010723143105.M12936@dasbistro.com>; from sam@dasbistro.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 02:31:05PM -0700 References: <20010723143105.M12936@dasbistro.com> Message-ID: <20010724002824.B98211@networkcommand.com> I got a cracker sending some stuff at anti-dmca.org The machine is pretty well secured. So I'm not too worried about that but... Any ideas? 207.171.208.11 whois -h whois.arin.net NET-VERADO-DC20 Verado, Inc (NET-VERADO-DC20) 8390 E Crescent Parkway, Suite 300 Greenwood Village, CO 80111 US Netname: VERADO-DC20 Netblock: 207.171.192.0 - 207.171.255.255 Maintainer: VRDO Coordinator: Verado, Inc (HOS968-ORG-ARIN) Arin-POC@Verado.com 303-874-8010 Domain System inverse mapping provided by: NS1.FIRSTWORLD.NET 216.7.160.75 NS2.FIRSTWORLD.NET 216.127.92.78 From jono at microshaft.org Tue Jul 24 00:28:57 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Cracking activity In-Reply-To: <20010723143105.M12936@dasbistro.com>; from sam@dasbistro.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 02:31:05PM -0700 References: <20010723143105.M12936@dasbistro.com> Message-ID: <20010724002824.B98211@networkcommand.com> I got a cracker sending some stuff at anti-dmca.org The machine is pretty well secured. So I'm not too worried about that but... Any ideas? 207.171.208.11 whois -h whois.arin.net NET-VERADO-DC20 Verado, Inc (NET-VERADO-DC20) 8390 E Crescent Parkway, Suite 300 Greenwood Village, CO 80111 US Netname: VERADO-DC20 Netblock: 207.171.192.0 - 207.171.255.255 Maintainer: VRDO Coordinator: Verado, Inc (HOS968-ORG-ARIN) Arin-POC@Verado.com 303-874-8010 Domain System inverse mapping provided by: NS1.FIRSTWORLD.NET 216.7.160.75 NS2.FIRSTWORLD.NET 216.127.92.78 From me at ryanmarsh.com Mon Jul 23 22:31:45 2001 From: me at ryanmarsh.com (Ryan Marsh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Bing Thanks Message-ID: <995952705.8041.20.camel@cocoon.butterflysoft.org> I just wanted to give a big shout-out and thanks to all who came out to the San Jose rally. It went great and I am so proud of all of our efforts. I especially wanted to thank the guys that helped organize this. Talk about herding cats! The people who met in Berkley to help make most of those signs. We all worked our buts off till like 4am. The people who lead chants and kept us going. You will feel the pain in the morning. Whats that? I can't hear you... The people that went and spent their own money on sodas, and water for the crew before and during the rally. Boy, it was a scorcher wearing those black boycottadobe shirts! Last but not least, the EFF who was in there negotiating. -- Regards, -ryan The three great virtues of programming are laziness, impatience, and hubris, but bigotry makes the open-source world go round. From me at ryanmarsh.com Mon Jul 23 22:18:51 2001 From: me at ryanmarsh.com (Ryan Marsh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Is he being held in solitary? In-Reply-To: <20010724.024918.-638581.3.jhclouse@juno.com> References: <20010724.024918.-638581.3.jhclouse@juno.com> Message-ID: <995951931.8041.13.camel@cocoon.butterflysoft.org> Actually, you hope not. Solitary is worse than being with the general population. It's very depressing and will drive you mad. Typically in a count/city jail while awaiting trial the population is well segregated by offense type and violence is no where near what goes on in a penitentary. Usually though the first 24 to 48 hours (somtimes longer, things can be so arbitrary) you are on what's considered "suicide watch". You dont have a blanket to hang yourself with, you dont have a toothbrush, you don't have a pillow with which to choke yourself on (yes, it happens) and you are only let out of your cell for about an hour a day to eat and get/do your laundry. Of course I'm basing this off of one states prison system, I'm not sure if CA.'s follow the same routine. On 24 Jul 2001 02:49:17 -0400, Jason H Clouse wrote: > Is Dmitry being held in solitary confinement? I sure hope so. Those > prisons are awfully nasty.... > > J > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Regards, -ryan The three great virtues of programming are laziness, impatience, and hubris, but bigotry makes the open-source world go round. From me at ryanmarsh.com Mon Jul 23 22:44:34 2001 From: me at ryanmarsh.com (Ryan Marsh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Bing Thanks In-Reply-To: <995952705.8041.20.camel@cocoon.butterflysoft.org> References: <995952705.8041.20.camel@cocoon.butterflysoft.org> Message-ID: <995953474.8690.3.camel@cocoon.butterflysoft.org> s/Bing/Big/ Also, can't forget all those that braved the exhaust fumes and handed out flyers to passing motorists, educating ppl to our cause. On 24 Jul 2001 00:31:45 -0500, Ryan Marsh wrote: > I just wanted to give a big shout-out and thanks to all who came out to > the San Jose rally. It went great and I am so proud of all of our > efforts. > > I especially wanted to thank the guys that helped organize this. Talk > about herding cats! > The people who met in Berkley to help make most of those signs. We all > worked our buts off till like 4am. > The people who lead chants and kept us going. You will feel the pain in > the morning. Whats that? I can't hear you... > The people that went and spent their own money on sodas, and water for > the crew before and during the rally. Boy, it was a scorcher wearing > those black boycottadobe shirts! > > Last but not least, the EFF who was in there negotiating. > > -- > Regards, > -ryan > > The three great virtues of programming are laziness, impatience, > and hubris, but bigotry makes the open-source world go round. > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Regards, -ryan The three great virtues of programming are laziness, impatience, and hubris, but bigotry makes the open-source world go round. From marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca Tue Jul 24 00:59:30 2001 From: marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca (Marvin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boycott Adobe at least until Sklyarov is free. In-Reply-To: <995951611.8041.7.camel@cocoon.butterflysoft.org> Message-ID: (IANAL but), I note that Adobe has promised to withdraw their complaint. So they realize a PR error, but to the FBI, or rather the Justice Department, it isn't under their control anymore. It's an empty gesture. I noticed someone posting here about how at least Adobe won't be a witness for the prosecution any more. Well, if it goes ahead, I am sure they will be called to the stand with "didn't you say... etc." and their testimony will be almost as damning as if they weren't forced into pretending to have reversed their position. And remember, people are called to the stand as individuals, not as entire companies. Seems to me there are sufficient technical reasons why Sklyarov shouldn't have been the one arrested. These technical reasons will prevail in the courtroom just as well with or without Adobe's support. If Adobe were sincere they would start offering recompense for the trouble they caused, and show some backing down about the beauty of the DMCA itself. I say, that just because they grudgingly withdraw their complaint conceding only technical grounds, and partly on forgiveness grounds, it has no net benefit for Sklyarov that wouldn't have be obvious anyway. Sure, it's a moral victory to see them grovel, and congratulations to the EFF, but it doesn't cost Adobe anything, whereas Adobe has done tremendous harm to others, and promises to keep doing so. So just as Adobe can say that it has no control over what the Justice department will do from here on in, so also the EFF can't prevent us all from continuing to organize a boycott of Adobe. I'll never forget what they have done, whatever happens. I'll organize against Adobe, at least until Sklyarov is actually released AND compensated. And the motivations will have to be visibly honest, a result of a change of heart, not just an escape from pressure. In fact, so long as I don't perceive a change of heart on Adobe's side, it doesn't matter to me what they are grudgingly forced to do for PR reasons, then for so long will I continue to work for their demise. Austin Hook Calgary From jssj2001 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 24 00:56:15 2001 From: jssj2001 at hotmail.com (y s) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Loyalty: to whom? Message-ID: Congratulations, moslerinc.com is unmasked! Thanks to Seth David Schoen ! Wait a moment... Let us check what is loyalty.org. Its web site says: "The server which carries the loyalty.org web site crashed and has made the CAF web site is temporarily unavailable. It will be restored shortly. Californians for Academic Freedom is an organization opposed to the loyalty oath for California public employees, including faculty, staff, and students who work for the State in public schools." Why LOYALTY OATH "for California public employees, ... who work for the State in public schools" is so bad? I thought that with all problems in our public shools, teachers' loyalty would be the last thing to be opposed. Unless you get your inspiration from the certain sources... Things look more logical if we read Seth's favorite quote from previous postings: "Its really terrible when FBI arrested hacker, who visited USA with peacefull mission -- to share his knowledge with american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) " Now I can guess who was the guy with the Russian flag among San Jose protesters. - Y S P.S. Another favorite quote is [Pirke Avot 2:5]. Pirke Avot? Doesn't it mean "The Ethics of Fathers"? Great inspiration for the sign: "Adobe: Take Our Daughters To Work Day ...Send Our Father To Jail Day" >From: Seth David Schoen >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net >Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] wow - the world is ending (fwd) >Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:29:27 -0700 > >Pablos Kadrevis writes: > > > I think this guy needs to be engaged in a lively discussion about fair >use. > > > > Any takers? > > > > pablos. > > > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > Date: Monday, July 23, 2001 5:51 PM -0400 > > From: "Spalding, Keith HAMOH" > > To: "'circularfile@boycottadobe.com'" > > Subject: wow - the world is ending > > > > > > You all are nuts!!!!! > > > > this guy is no more than a bank robber > > > > Lets see - I put my money in a safe. [...] > > > > ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- > >Mosler Inc. is, of course, a maker of ... safes. > >"When all you have is a hammer..." > >-- >Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI >arrested >Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with >peacefull >down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge >with > http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. >Vasilyev) > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ed at hintz.org Tue Jul 24 00:58:22 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Pictures/movies from San Jose protest Message-ID: <200107240759.f6O7xdc11181@phil.hintz.org> Are here: http://nc.flyingbuttmonkeys.com/~ehintz/ Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From crism at maden.org Tue Jul 24 01:05:02 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: <20010724000318.A14858@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> References: <87n15uhll7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <87n15uhll7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010724010416.00a66c20@mail.maden.org> At 00:03 24-07-2001, mike castleman wrote: >A friend of mine tells the following anecdote. I believe that it's >basically true, though I've never tried to verify it and some of the >details are probably off. > >Brown University in Providence, RI, US is famous for its essentially >requirement-free curriculum. (i.e., you can take basically whatever >courses you want, except of course for those courses needed for your >major.) When the student who came up with this idea first had it, he >decided he was going to have a rally every Friday to push for it. The >first week he had it, only a few of his friends showed up. The next week, >there were like 10 people there, and so on until the rally had grown to >the point where thousands of people were showing up and the administration >could no longer ignore them. Thus, the genesis of Brown's free-choice >curriculum. This is pretty much accurate. The year was 1969, and the student was Ira "Clinton Health Plan" Magaziner. -crism (Brown '94) -- "You will find that the State is the kind of organization which, though it does big things badly, does small things badly too." - J.K. Galbraith === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From ausage at ausage.com Tue Jul 24 01:04:03 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Cracking activity In-Reply-To: <20010724002824.B98211@networkcommand.com> References: <20010723143105.M12936@dasbistro.com> <20010724002824.B98211@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <0107240404030A.20962@frankie> On July 24, 2001 03:28 am, Jon O . wrote: > I got a cracker sending some stuff at anti-dmca.org > > The machine is pretty well secured. So I'm not too worried > about that but... > > Any ideas? First... Keep your logs. Second... If possible block that IP at your firewall Third... Contact verdao.com They seem to be a reputable ISP from their web page company. Don't know if they have 24/7 support but the support number is 1-888-900-8383 If your can't reach a human sent email to support@ abuse@ netabuse@ Be prepared to send a copy of your log... include them in your email as text not as an attachment (net admins don't usually accept ANY attachments) and specify the time zone. My experience is it can take a while to get through to the right people (bigger the ISP the longer it takes... AOL is the worst) but once you do they will take action IMMEDIATELY. Hope this helps... Feel free to call me anytime... -- Andrew Lawrence Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 From tom at lemuria.org Tue Jul 24 01:12:13 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] St Paul In-Reply-To: <200107232235.f6NMZEo61508@www1.mailru.com>; from prostoalex@hotbox.ru on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 02:35:14AM +0400 References: <200107232235.f6NMZEo61508@www1.mailru.com> Message-ID: <20010724101209.A28296@lemuria.org> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 02:35:14AM +0400, Alexander Moskalyuk wrote: > previously mentioned St Paul protest photos sites seem > to load exceptionally slow. I am not sure whether the > problem is on my end, but the other sites are replying > okay. > http://www.underwhelm.org/freedima/ I'm afraid that's my fault, by putting it up on /. without warning. sorry. I should've mirrored the pics and get my own site beaten down. From ilya at theIlya.com Tue Jul 24 01:11:23 2001 From: ilya at theIlya.com (Ilya Volynets) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Loyalty: to whom? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0107240111230E.12942@gateway> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 24 July 2001 00:56, y s wrote: > Congratulations, moslerinc.com is unmasked! Thanks to Seth David Schoen > ! > Wait a moment... Let us check what is loyalty.org. Its web site says: > "The server which carries the loyalty.org web site crashed and has made the > CAF web site is temporarily unavailable. It will be restored shortly. > Californians for Academic Freedom is an organization opposed to the loyalty > oath for California public employees, including faculty, staff, and > students who work for the State in public schools." May I ask you, Sir, what relation to education persoanlly you have. It is well noted that there are two professions, everybody knowse evrything about: midicine and teatching. Well, that is at least very true for Russia. Another question, I'd like to ask, is: "What exactly do you know about loyality oath that loyalty.org fights against?" Once you answer these two questions, we can esteblish some grounds for (possibly private, since it is offtopic here) discussion about these matters. > Why LOYALTY OATH "for California public employees, ... who work for the > State in public schools" is so bad? I thought that with all problems in our > public shools, teachers' loyalty would be the last thing to be opposed. > Unless you get your inspiration from the certain sources... > Things look more logical if we read Seth's favorite quote from previous > postings: > "Its really terrible when FBI arrested hacker, who visited USA with > peacefull mission -- to share his knowledge with > american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) " > Now I can guess who was the guy with the Russian flag among San Jose > protesters. Is there a problem with carrying russian flag, especially when russian citizen is the reason for rally? I'd like to hear some reasoning, that leads to this. Just out of curiocity. > - Y S > > P.S. Another favorite quote is [Pirke Avot 2:5]. Pirke Avot? Doesn't it > mean "The Ethics of Fathers"? Great inspiration for the sign: > "Adobe: Take Our Daughters To Work Day > ...Send Our Father To Jail Day" Well, that's exacly what Adobe, or, as a matter of fact, any large corporation is aming for by it's nature. You can't blame tiger for eating other animals, but you have to fight it, in order to survive yourself. And way of fight for individuals, is knowledge. We must educate each other. As a side note, there obviously were daughters in SJ Adobe office. > From: Seth David Schoen > > >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > >Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] wow - the world is ending (fwd) > >Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:29:27 -0700 > > > >Pablos Kadrevis writes: > > > I think this guy needs to be engaged in a lively discussion about fair > > > >use. > > > > > Any takers? > > > > > > pablos. > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > > Date: Monday, July 23, 2001 5:51 PM -0400 > > > From: "Spalding, Keith HAMOH" > > > To: "'circularfile@boycottadobe.com'" > > > Subject: wow - the world is ending > > > > > > > > > You all are nuts!!!!! > > > > > > this guy is no more than a bank robber > > > > > > Lets see - I put my money in a safe. [...] > > > > > > ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- > > > >Mosler Inc. is, of course, a maker of ... safes. > > > >"When all you have is a hammer..." > > > >-- > >Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI > >arrested > >Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with > >peacefull > >down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge > >with > > http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. > >Vasilyev) > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtdLa4ACgkQtKh84cA8u2lEqQCgpdnzAeFGQpQ/7O/+Vp0WHE9G e4MAmwciSc67Ro4niEmR1wzfKWT5lSF2 =wMuQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mlc67 at columbia.edu Tue Jul 24 01:22:24 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NY Times Tuesday Message-ID: <20010724012224.A15818@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Ah, with the Internet, you can get articles before the physical paper is around. The article makes it seem like mere coincidence that Adobe issued this press release on the same day 100 people were yelling outside their doors and the EFF was sitting inside, but Occam's razor dictates otherwise. Anyway, Adobe Opposes Prosecution in Hacking Case By AMY HARMON In an unexpected turnaround, Adobe Systems (news/quote ) called yesterday for the release of a Russian programmer accused of violating American copyright law after he helped create software that can crack Adobe's security software for electronic books. Last month, Adobe filed a complaint with the F.B.I. against Elcomsoft, the Moscow-based company where the programmer works. It was selling a $99 software package that disabled Adobe's anti-piracy system for e-books. Then last week, the programmer, Dmitri Sklyarov, was arrested by federal agents at a conference in Las Vegas, where he described how to crack copy-protection system. He remains in jail. But yesterday, Adobe said it would withdraw its support for the prosecution of Mr. Sklyarov. The detention of the 26-year-old programmer touched off a public outcry over the first criminal prosecution under a 1998 copyright law. The law makes it illegal to "provide to the public" a device with a main purpose of circumventing a technological security measure for copyrighted works. About 100 protesters marched at Adobe's headquarters in San Jose today, and protests were held in several other cities. Civil liberties advocates argue that the 1998 law, known as the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, or D.M.C.A., is an unconstitutional restriction on speech. Adobe announced its decision after an eight-hour meeting with the representatives of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a nonprofit civil liberties group based in San Francisco. "We strongly support the D.M.C.A. and the enforcement of copyright protection of digital content," said Colleen Pouliot, Adobe's general counsel. "However, the prosecution of this individual in this particular case is not conducive to the best interests of any of the parties involved or the industry." Last month, after being contacted by Adobe, Elcomsoft stopped selling the controversial software. Mr. Pouliot said that "from that perspective, the D.M.C.A. worked." Robin Gross, a lawyer for the foundation, said that the group had been able to convince Adobe that supporting the prosecution would hurt its business. The Justice Department could continue to pursue the case regardless of Adobe's position. But Ms. Gross said the company's statement should be "persuasive." "It makes very little sense for the U.S. attorney's office to ask taxpayers to foot the bill for a prosecution that Adobe itself doesn't even support," Ms. Gross said. From tom at lemuria.org Tue Jul 24 01:26:49 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller In-Reply-To: ; from izel@sulam.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 10:54:21PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010724102647.B28296@lemuria.org> On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 10:54:21PM -0400, Izel Sulam wrote: > Our first set of protests were basically an Adobe smear campaign and they > worked. We attracted attention to Adobe's lousy security and fradulent > business tactics through messageboards, websites and protests. Adobe had to > do everything in its power to control damage. They are out of the picture > now. They were the weakest link, goodbye. exactly. and it wasn't even hard for them, since the damage is done. > The next weakest link is Mueller. He will want to be confirmed with > absolutely no controvery surrounding his position. We must start banging > our drums and shouting very loudly - starting NOW - that Sklyarov was > arrested illegally even under the strictest interpretation of the DMCA. We > must criticize Mueller for wanting to head a lawless bureau that cares > nothing for the laws it is supposed to respect and uphold. We must make > this incident as embarrassing for him as possible - so he will resolve it > quickly and quietly. > > Comments, suggestions welcome. I'm sure we can get eurorights.org to file an official protest letter or something, and I'm positive that I can get at least one local news website to run a story that mueller won't like. but all those will be minor events. what's important is that someone (declan?) pick them up and spin them into "international protest against mueller's nomination". From ausage at ausage.com Tue Jul 24 01:22:04 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Apology Message-ID: <0107240422040B.20962@frankie> OK. I'm a cynic..... Yesterday I posted some things here about the EFF's position that implied I didn't trust them.... Today they have more than proved their trustworthiness and their wisdom. To everyone on this list, and especially to the very hard workers at the EFF, I sincerely apologise. The next time my cynicism strikes, I will bite my tongue (and my fingers) and pause before comment. Please accept this apology and believe that although I expressed my doubts I was praying for your success through out the day. -- Andrew Lawrence Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 From tom at lemuria.org Tue Jul 24 01:29:33 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller In-Reply-To: ; from izel@sulam.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:12:19PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010724102930.C28296@lemuria.org> On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:12:19PM -0400, Izel Sulam wrote: > Let's hear some more feedback on how exactly to implement our next line of > attack. Protests in front of FBI buildings is certainly a legitimate idea. this is a random idea: - find 100+ people willing to participate - buy handcuffs in your local hardware store or sex shops - everyone handcuff themselves (keep the keys in reach :) ) and turn yourself in to the FBI in one public, organized and ANNOUNCED TO THE MEDIA ONLY event for "I can break ROT13, too" or some other appropriate slogan. why? posters are nice, but too common. creative activism can draw much more publicity. From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Tue Jul 24 01:16:17 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] St. Paul Message-ID: Not that warning me would have helped ;) I don't mind a fair slashdotting (it builds character), I'm just sorry more people didn't get a chance to see the pics, ugly as they were compared to the locations with bona fide digital cameras. Just to be on topic: I'm going ahead to schedule an organizational meeting for this weekend re: protest v2.0 in Minneapolis. The contact list here is growing. Tom wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 02:35:14AM +0400, Alexander Moskalyuk wrote: > > previously mentioned St Paul protest photos sites seem > > to load exceptionally slow. I am not sure whether the > > problem is on my end, but the other sites are replying > > okay. > > http://www.underwhelm.org/freedima/ > > I'm afraid that's my fault, by putting it up on /. without warning. > sorry. I should've mirrored the pics and get my own site beaten down. > From tom at lemuria.org Tue Jul 24 01:42:03 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you In-Reply-To: ; from dredd@megacity.org on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 10:00:13PM -0700 References: <00ce01c113fc$736a09a0$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: <20010724104200.D28296@lemuria.org> On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 10:00:13PM -0700, Derek Balling wrote: > I must admit that I've considered seeking political asylum in a > foreign country at this stage. :( tell me your qualifications and I'm fairly sure I can set you up with a job. make sure you get massive media coverage, though. From tom at lemuria.org Tue Jul 24 01:55:53 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe dropping charges, US Pressing ahead In-Reply-To: <87g0bmj1e7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:18:24PM -0700 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723195632.00afe9a0@mail.utstar.com> <20010723171805.Y98211@networkcommand.com> <87wv4yj2b9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010723231014.V98211@networkcommand.com> <87g0bmj1e7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010724105549.E28296@lemuria.org> On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:18:24PM -0700, Klepht wrote: > JO> You might want to talk with some of the G-8 protest > JO> organizations. Explain to them about the DMCA and how it > JO> relates to the WTO and WIPO. Then ask for help. > > You know what? I'm retracting my previous statement. I'm not going to > say we can't bring down a MEGA-GEEK LIGHTNING PROTEST SHIT HAMMER on > any party that continues to stand in the way of the freedom of Dmitry > Sklyarov. I am currently torn between two directions that both sound intelligent: a) ease up on adobe, or they might turn around again. they did withdraw, so they should get a cookie for being good boys b) full steam ahead, because it's the only way to send a clear message to every OTHER corp that is contemplating (ab)use of the DMCA - "no, you will NOT get away with a single black eye" From brenno at dewinter.com Tue Jul 24 02:25:45 2001 From: brenno at dewinter.com (Brenno J.S.A.A.F. de Winter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boycott Adobe at least until Sklyarov is free. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010724092545.A74BB16B85@webber.dewinter.com> I'm just amazed! Isn't it complaint dropped -> charges dropped? -- make dep install modules modules_install, Brenno J.S.A.A.F. de Winter De Winter Information Solutions. From ilya at theIlya.com Tue Jul 24 02:04:39 2001 From: ilya at theIlya.com (Ilya Volynets) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe dropping charges, US Pressing ahead In-Reply-To: <20010724105549.E28296@lemuria.org> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723195632.00afe9a0@mail.utstar.com> <87g0bmj1e7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010724105549.E28296@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <0107240204390J.12942@gateway> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 24 July 2001 01:55, Tom wrote: > On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:18:24PM -0700, Klepht wrote: > > JO> You might want to talk with some of the G-8 protest > > JO> organizations. Explain to them about the DMCA and how it > > JO> relates to the WTO and WIPO. Then ask for help. > > > > You know what? I'm retracting my previous statement. I'm not going to > > say we can't bring down a MEGA-GEEK LIGHTNING PROTEST SHIT HAMMER on > > any party that continues to stand in the way of the freedom of Dmitry > > Sklyarov. > > I am currently torn between two directions that both sound intelligent: > > a) ease up on adobe, or they might turn around again. they did > withdraw, so they should get a cookie for being good boys I thing this is a way to go. Yes, Adobe only got a single black eye, and even that is not too black, but the issue at stake is not Adobe and friends, but rather it is Dmitry. Once he is free, we can start massively attacking companies that got DMCA through. Or may be we should go little bit further. Most of people on this list seem to agree that DMCA is root of all problems. Well, I'd say it goes little bit deeper then that. True problem is that unti-trust law is not being enforced well enough. M$, for example is still one corporation, even though they have clearly been abusing all possible laws in all possible ways. Thus true goal has to be getting corporations where they are supposed to be -- making our economics spin forward, by being competitive, and by this makeing everyone (including themselves) happier, rather then draining all life from individual consumers, and then dying for lack of food. But that's next, our goal is to free Dmitry first. > b) full steam ahead, because it's the only way to send a clear message > to every OTHER corp that is contemplating (ab)use of the DMCA - "no, > you will NOT get away with a single black eye" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtdOioACgkQtKh84cA8u2l0bACfQJXkdc2UEqEJESPzbwfdDhQ4 +CYAnApHJoRvkxBI29inwjPpPBJaNjQN =VfaG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kastlyn at lowerlights.com Tue Jul 24 03:04:22 2001 From: kastlyn at lowerlights.com (kastlyn@lowerlights.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FBI Protest Message-ID: <0107240304.04BET00@lowerlights.com> "this is a random idea: - find 100+ people willing to participate - buy handcuffs in your local hardware store or sex shops - everyone handcuff themselves (keep the keys in reach :) ) and turn yourself in to the FBI in one public, organized and ANNOUNCED TO THE MEDIA ONLY event for "I can break ROT13, too" or some other appropriate slogan." Tom, this is an excellent idea! Maybe all wearing signs saying things like: "I am a circumvention device." or, "Illegal to Discuss/Distribute", etc. *grins* =} -=Amie Christensen=- From tom at lemuria.org Tue Jul 24 02:12:57 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:15 2005 Subject: [nylug-talk] RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: <87n15uhll7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:45:08PM -0700 References: <87n15uhll7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010724111255.G28296@lemuria.org> On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:45:08PM -0700, Klepht wrote: > JS> I think in New York we may protest Mondays at the New York > JS> Public Library. > > Jay, > > Not that I'd tell you what to do or anything... but aren't you a > little worried that if you make it a regular thing, it'll get stale > real fast? not if it keeps getting momentum. this was the very way in which a tyrannical government was overtrown about 100 miles east of my doorstep. eastern germany had these monday protests. at first, they were barely noticed, then they grew and grew and got completely out of control of the government forces. I'm sure you've all seen the pictures of thousands of people shouting "Wir sind das Volk!" (we are the people). so this kind of repetitive event CAN work. if done right. From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Jul 24 02:10:18 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NY Times Tuesday In-Reply-To: <20010724012224.A15818@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> References: <20010724012224.A15818@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <87itgihev9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "mc" == mike castleman writes: mc> About 100 protesters marched at Adobe's headquarters in San mc> Jose today, and protests were held in several other mc> cities. Anybody else notice that the multiple-city factor seems to play pretty highly with the press? We should remember that for future events. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Jul 24 02:17:15 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe dropping charges, US Pressing ahead In-Reply-To: <20010724105549.E28296@lemuria.org> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010723195632.00afe9a0@mail.utstar.com> <20010723171805.Y98211@networkcommand.com> <87wv4yj2b9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010723231014.V98211@networkcommand.com> <87g0bmj1e7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010724105549.E28296@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <87elr6hejo.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "T" == Tom writes: T> I am currently torn between two directions that both sound T> intelligent: T> a) ease up on adobe, or they might turn around again. they did T> withdraw, so they should get a cookie for being good boys I say that unless Adobe reneges on their announcement today, they should be left alone. MAINLY because they're not particularly cogent to our cause anymore. If we wanted to tell Adobe, and other companies, that they couldn't get away with using the criminal portions of the DMCA without a serious firefight, well, we did that. If we wanted to get everything we could out of Adobe, I think we did that, too. If Adobe can do more to get Dmitry free than retract their complaint and request his release, well, I'd be surprised. So, we a) gave them the punishment and b) got what we wanted. Any other work on Adobe is just us exercising our anger, which could easily be exercised on other worthy targets. Especially if Dmitry isn't set free soon. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From tom at lemuria.org Tue Jul 24 02:30:45 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FBI Protest In-Reply-To: <0107240304.04BET00@lowerlights.com>; from kastlyn@lowerlights.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:04:22AM -0700 References: <0107240304.04BET00@lowerlights.com> Message-ID: <20010724113042.I28296@lemuria.org> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:04:22AM -0700, kastlyn@lowerlights.com wrote: > "this is a random idea: > > - find 100+ people willing to participate > - buy handcuffs in your local hardware store or sex shops > - everyone handcuff themselves (keep the keys in reach :) ) and > turn yourself in to the FBI in one public, organized and > ANNOUNCED TO THE MEDIA ONLY event for "I can break ROT13, too" > or some other appropriate slogan." > > Tom, this is an excellent idea! Maybe all wearing signs saying things > like: > "I am a circumvention device." > or, > "Illegal to Discuss/Distribute", etc. > *grins* =} I think the "I am a circumvention device" thingy is cool. it should be accompanied by something more digestable to the non-techies, however. e.g. "I can read - jail me" (brainstorm session declared open :) ) From ilya at theIlya.com Tue Jul 24 02:33:22 2001 From: ilya at theIlya.com (Ilya Volynets) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FBI Protest In-Reply-To: <20010724113042.I28296@lemuria.org> References: <0107240304.04BET00@lowerlights.com> <20010724113042.I28296@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <0107240233220M.12942@gateway> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 24 July 2001 02:30, Tom wrote: > On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:04:22AM -0700, kastlyn@lowerlights.com wrote: > > "this is a random idea: > > > > - find 100+ people willing to participate > > - buy handcuffs in your local hardware store or sex shops > > - everyone handcuff themselves (keep the keys in reach :) ) and > > turn yourself in to the FBI in one public, organized and > > ANNOUNCED TO THE MEDIA ONLY event for "I can break ROT13, too" > > or some other appropriate slogan." > > > > Tom, this is an excellent idea! Maybe all wearing signs saying > > things like: > > "I am a circumvention device." > > or, > > "Illegal to Discuss/Distribute", etc. > > *grins* =} > > I think the "I am a circumvention device" thingy is cool. it should be > accompanied by something more digestable to the non-techies, however. > > e.g. "I can read - jail me" More technically correct would be "If I read for you out loud, go to jail" since User of device is responcible, not device itself. Also, "Send my parants to jail" is valid -- tey produced me. Teatchers qualify under last one too. At least they should, if they are worth anythng :) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtdQOQACgkQtKh84cA8u2m1hACgo0aP55fuhPjIL+deO9y/BTUc nIEAoMMgMpjfq93fUnwqSO1rmUcZoQMg =sEmQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ilya at theIlya.com Tue Jul 24 02:37:44 2001 From: ilya at theIlya.com (Ilya Volynets) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FBI Protest In-Reply-To: <0107240233220M.12942@gateway> References: <0107240304.04BET00@lowerlights.com> <20010724113042.I28296@lemuria.org> <0107240233220M.12942@gateway> Message-ID: <0107240237440P.12942@gateway> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Wow! That was a bad typing... Let me run this through spell checker... Sorry... > More technically correct would be > "If I read for you out loud, go to jail" > since User of device is responsible, not device itself. > Also, "Send my parents to jail" is valid -- they produced me. > Teachers qualify under last one too. At least they should, > if they are worth anything :) Hmm... Now it looks kinda right... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtdQesACgkQtKh84cA8u2kfIQCguKSaem1EITuVJaV+iW0xMhyQ X7AAnAy9g3US13QLbZXQm+EkADi48p/B =gH6g -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Tue Jul 24 02:39:52 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] UK ACTION References: Message-ID: <3B5D4268.5610F172@sheffield.ac.uk> Nothing have really changed since EFF-Adobe statement. Dmitry is still in custody. Does anyone know the formal title and post address of Robert Mueller? To all uk residents in this list! My proposals: 1. Write letters to all 4 USA consulate in the uk: http://www.usembassy.org.uk/ The demand is as simple as "FREE DMITRY" 2. People who live in or near London, Belfast, Cardiff, Edinborough please consider a protest action "FREE DMITRY" 3. Write letters to Mueller - NO COMPLAINT -> NO CRIME ->FREE DMITRY Anyone willing to take part or organise a protest action or sign a letter please let me know --------------------------------------- Anton Chterenlikht Research Assistant Mechanical Engineering Department Sheffield University Mappin Street Sheffield S1 3JD UK Tel: (+) 114 2227863 Fax: (+) 114 2226015 Email: a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk --------------------------------------- From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Tue Jul 24 02:33:44 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA-minnesota Message-ID: The Mpls/St. Paul protest group has started a discussion list, and broadened their scope (in name) to better survive the day the protests succeed in forcing the US to drop their charges against Dmitry. Local organization will take place on that list, and I will act as a liaison between the local and national efforts to Free Dmitry and Repeal the DMCA for the time being. We look forward to continued action, and will meet this Saturday for planning purposes, pending further extraordinary announcements. Minnesota locals are encouraged to join the discussion list, yahoo registration required: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ While organizational decisions will be made on the list, Minnesotans who simply want to be apprised of local actions can still forward their email address to freedima@underwhelm.org and I will add them to my announcement list. I request anyone still maintaining a list of ongoing protest organizations please update our entry to reflect this information, and post the URL to this list. I'm afraid that boycottadobe has deprecated itself, and a centralized National/International protest resource is vital to the longevity of this movement. Make your efforts known so we can share the list with interested parties and media organizations and increase its value. Thank you. Free Dmitry. Repeal the DMCA. From ausage at ausage.com Tue Jul 24 03:10:06 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NY Times Tuesday In-Reply-To: <87itgihev9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> References: <20010724012224.A15818@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> <87itgihev9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <01072406100600.22232@frankie> On July 24, 2001 05:10 am, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "mc" == mike castleman writes: > > mc> About 100 protesters marched at Adobe's headquarters in San > mc> Jose today, and protests were held in several other > mc> cities. > > Anybody else notice that the multiple-city factor seems to play pretty > highly with the press? > > We should remember that for future events. It plays very highly because it takes time to get people organized. Considering the timetable this must be a very frightening experience for the PTB. Dimitry was arrested only one week ago... In that time the word on the arrest of an obscure Russian "hacker" has spread, people have gotten organized, seveal web site created and publicised, national media attention is gathered, international criticism pores in, and demonstrations happen simultaneously in twenty cities around the US and in Moscow. The power of the Internet can be very, very frightening. I don't think Adobe realized what they were starting... but I hope the Justice Department realizes sooner than later that this will not settle down and go away but is going to grow, and grow, and grow... -- Andrew Lawrence Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 From roylo at sr2c.com Tue Jul 24 03:14:49 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. 10:00am Message-ID: <003101c11429$78f19f00$0200a8c0@jwin> I'm planning to hold a protest at U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of California office in San Jose at 10:00am this Sat. http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/contact/usalist.html#can The address is: 280 South First St., Rm. 371, San Jose 95113 I was thinking about doing it at the main office in San Francisco, but as we all know that the traffic is bad in San Francisco; So it will be in the San Jose office instead. For those of you who lives in this area please come by and join us. And bring your (geek) friends as well. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010724/f19a9901/attachment.html From tom at lemuria.org Tue Jul 24 04:01:17 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. 10:00am In-Reply-To: <003101c11429$78f19f00$0200a8c0@jwin>; from roylo@sr2c.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:14:49AM -0700 References: <003101c11429$78f19f00$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: <20010724130113.B28557@lemuria.org> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:14:49AM -0700, roylo wrote: > For those of you who lives in this area please come by and join us. And > bring your (geek) friends as well. almost more important: bring your non-geek friends. I'm very certain that right now, someone either with the government or with the large corporations who own it has the specific job of watching whether or not this swaps out of the geek community and into the general public. if anyone can bring his mom, I'm sure Valenti will be very, very worried. From hanke at volny.cz Tue Jul 24 05:10:41 2001 From: hanke at volny.cz (Hynek "0A4h" Hanke) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Distributing AEBPR, contact to Dmitry? Message-ID: <007a01c11439$cb055420$2ce45ad4@b1x6v0> Hi First thing I'd like to say is: ``Thank you all !'' I'm sad I couldn't participate at these rallies, because it wouldn't make much sense here in Czech Republic in Europe. I am interested in freedom of speech and these things as deeply as most of you are. I have developed a simple system to distribute such things and I consulted it with one lawyer. It seems working. The idea is simple. We will take a source data (maybe binary of AEBPR). Make a package1 (p1) full of random (good RNG needed) data so that size(p1) == size (source) Then we will make p1[i] xor source[i] = p2[i] In every step, we will randomly mix the i byte of p1 and p2 swap(p1[i], p2[i]) Now, it's mathematically impossible say if p1 or p2 contains random key or data. By law, it seems that key cannot be judged as something dangerous. Key can be used again and again on legal or illegal data. Who knows... But is p1 or p2 key? That's impossible to distinguish. Then, using something like RAID, the information is divided into 3 packages (p1,p2,p3), each one containing CRC informations too. Then we will put p1,p2 and p3 on diferent internet servers. Now look, every package alone, p1,p2 or p3 is nothing but random data (refering to the nature of XOR operation) If someone forced me to delete p1 from server 1 (s1), because it contains ilegal data, I can simply say him: ``Ok, I will delete it so that you could look that it contains nothing interesting. The information willremain avaible of course''. (because p2 and p3 carries enought information) I can distribute program (pr) along with these three packages and say the user to link it (using this program) together. Then I (as a distributor) am absolutely legal, because I provide nothing but random data. pr(p1,p2,p3) => source The lawyer said to me it seemd OK. However, it doesn't afect the responsibility of the end user linking the 3 packages together. But in this case, and maybe in other DMCA cases, it seems the user made his program out of random data doesn't have to wory about beeing ilegal and beeing sued. From chris.savage at crblaw.com Tue Jul 24 05:11:09 2001 From: chris.savage at crblaw.com (Chris Savage) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] International law and U.S. v. Sklyarov Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Barr [mailto:warthawg@ecpi.com] > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 5:38 PM > To: Declan McCullagh > Cc: chris.savage@crblaw.com; tneu@visi.com; free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] International law and U.S. v. Sklyarov > > > > > Perhaps his presentation at Defcon was sufficient for the > conditions of "otherwise traffic"? > > That would put the commission of the crime in the US, not Russia. I'm not aware of the specifics of the Defcon presentation. But it gets dicey under the 1st Amendment, it seems to me. If he said, in effect, "look at how our software works," calling it "trafficking" would be a stretch, ISTM. But if he said "Hey everyone, go to www.whatever.com and buy our cool Adobe-security-breaking software" that might be different. In the latter case the presentation is, in effect, an ad. The EFF folks, of course, are (and have as their advisors) real, live first amendment experts. So if the case against Dmitry isn't dropped, I'd certainly hope that he and they get together. Chris S. *************************************************************************** This electronic mail transmission may contain confidential or privileged information. If you believe that you have received the message in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. *************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010724/c2be4e20/attachment.htm From pmasloch at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 05:15:57 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: So Sad In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, do you want to make Dmitry responsible for, that regnow.com was still selling the software after Elcomsoft pulled it from the market? I think there is something wrong with that picture. Peter Peter, is your definition of jerk: "Anybody who disagrees with me"? Advanced eBook Processor (AEBPR) was available from www.regnow.com after ElcomSoft stopped selling it directly. It was purchased by Adobe on June,26 for $99 (see "Originalcomplaint", page 5, http://www.usaondca.com/press/assets/applets/2001_07_17_sklyarov.pdf) >From: "Peter" >Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Re: So Sad >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 00:17:41 -0400 > >Geez....what a jerk. Probably he thinks that Defcon is an Software >auction. Elcomsoft stopped the sale way before Dmitry came to Las Vegas. >Peter > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From tom at lemuria.org Tue Jul 24 05:18:32 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Distributing AEBPR, contact to Dmitry? In-Reply-To: <007a01c11439$cb055420$2ce45ad4@b1x6v0>; from hanke@volny.cz on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 02:10:41PM +0200 References: <007a01c11439$cb055420$2ce45ad4@b1x6v0> Message-ID: <20010724141828.A28718@lemuria.org> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 02:10:41PM +0200, Hynek 0A4h Hanke wrote: > Now, it's mathematically impossible say if p1 or p2 > contains random key or data. By law, it seems that key > cannot be judged as something dangerous. Key can > be used again and again on legal or illegal data. > Who knows... But is p1 or p2 key? That's impossible to > distinguish. variations of this theme have been discussed on e.g. cypherpunks for years. many people, including myself, have written proof-of-concept programs. all of us are positive that lawyers don't care for technicalities like this. they'll just throw some rhetorics at your mathematical proof and see to it that the judge will get the rhetorics, but not the math (if necessary, they will see to it that the math gets twisted into the most horrible form imaginable). From pmasloch at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 05:20:02 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] in a few minutes: sf bay area kpix channel 5 In-Reply-To: <20010723233421.B20352@artemas.reachin.com> Message-ID: I didn't see anything here in the east (MD).....like always. Peter > report coming up in a few minutes, just announced in previews. should also > appear on channel 7 before the hour is over. if people don't want to hear > these alerts, flame offlist, and i won't bother with this feed... The coverage on Kpix was far more extensive, including an interview with a person from the EFF, and both a note about the DMCA being unconstitutional, and a note that Adobe "backed down". The overage on challen 7 was much briefer, only noting that we are trying to free Demitry, and not pointing out that Adobe backed down. - Sam _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From lgorkin1 at nyc.rr.com Tue Jul 24 05:16:09 2001 From: lgorkin1 at nyc.rr.com (Leonid Gorkin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ZDNet article In-Reply-To: <20010724113042.I28296@lemuria.org> References: <0107240304.04BET00@lowerlights.com> <20010724113042.I28296@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <01072408160900.19193@lorien> Adobe seeks release of Russian programmer ZDNet article: http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5094588,00.html?chkpt=zdnnp1tp02 From roylo at sr2c.com Tue Jul 24 05:30:32 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. 10:00am References: <003101c11429$78f19f00$0200a8c0@jwin> <20010724130113.B28557@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <001901c1143c$6e609060$0200a8c0@jwin> That is good ideal, I have friends that are either students or professors in the local colleges, I will make sure to bring them with me as well. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom" To: "roylo" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 4:01 AM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. 10:00am > On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:14:49AM -0700, roylo wrote: > > For those of you who lives in this area please come by and join us. And > > bring your (geek) friends as well. > > almost more important: bring your non-geek friends. > > I'm very certain that right now, someone either with the government or > with the large corporations who own it has the specific job of watching > whether or not this swaps out of the geek community and into the > general public. if anyone can bring his mom, I'm sure Valenti will be > very, very worried. From caiaphas at operamail.com Tue Jul 24 06:04:03 2001 From: caiaphas at operamail.com (caiaphas@operamail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe turnaround on BBC Message-ID: Sorry if this has been posted already "A Russian computer programmer is still being held in the United States despite a change of heart by the company which wanted him arrested." http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1454000/1454489.stm Caiaphas From seth.johnson at RealMeasures.dyndns.org Tue Jul 24 06:12:52 2001 From: seth.johnson at RealMeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation Message-ID: Isn't this: > The Adobe (?) Acrobat (?) eBook Reader . . . enables you to use your > existing Windows PC or Macintosh as a sophisticated eBook reading > device. . . . a lot of hooey? Seth Johnson From proclus at iname.com Tue Jul 24 06:20:02 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] San Diego information? In-Reply-To: <003c01c113b3$41dc87d0$862ef90a@private> Message-ID: <200107241320.f6ODK5202852@moerbeke> I think that the OSCON plans should go on unchanged for the most part. FREE Dmitry! Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ On 23 Jul, Jey Kottalam wrote: > [snip] >> Anyone know for sure that this is tonight (Mon. 7/23)? The >> boycottadobe site above indicates that it's on "Sunday" without any >> further date specifics. The EFF rideshare board, though, indicates >> it's today. >> >> http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010723_sandiego_rideshare.html >> >> Any more information out there? >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Can anyone help with San Diego event information? Thanks! >> > > There is currently *no protest planned*. Bob La Quey had arranged for an > organization meeting yesterday at the Sheraton Hotel, but apparently noone > showed up. > > Hopefully Bob will be able to give us suggestions on what to do for the > future.... this week is a golden opportunity with OSCON. > > -Jey Kottalam > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From david.haworth at altavista.net Tue Jul 24 06:26:24 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation In-Reply-To: ; from seth.johnson@RealMeasures.dyndns.org on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 09:12:52AM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010724152624.C28842@3soft.de> Quoth Seth Johnson: > > Isn't this: > [Adobe marketing bullshit snipped] > > . . . a lot of hooey? Yes, just like the complaint against Dmitry. -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From warthawg at ecpi.com Tue Jul 24 06:30:20 2001 From: warthawg at ecpi.com (Joe Barr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you In-Reply-To: <20010724005834.C24508@cluebot.com> References: <007401c113fa$e025a600$0200a8c0@jwin> <20010723235545.17ac789f.warthawg@ecpi.com> <20010724005834.C24508@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010724083020.44c243bc.warthawg@ecpi.com> Thanks, even with the sophmoric commentary. On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 00:58:34 -0400 Declan McCullagh wrote: > On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:55:45PM -0500, Joe Barr wrote: > > Why is he still in jail? I mean, why hasn't he been bailed out? Do > > our laws allow the FBI to just disappear someone by virtue of their > > arrest? Is due process an antiquated notion? > > It would undoubtably help his chances at making bail if a judge set > bail for everyone's favorite defendant, rather than not letting him > out on bail at all. > > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45342,00.html > Matthew Parrella, a federal prosecutor in Las Vegas, said a judge on > Monday decided to hold Sklyarov without bail until his hearing in > California some time in the next two weeks. "The court deemed him a > risk of non-appearance, which is not uncommon with white collar > criminals," Parrella said. > > It would undoubtably help your understanding if you read news coverage > of the case. > > -Declan > -- #====================================================# # Repeal the DMCA! Free Sklyarov! # #====================================================# From rsperberg at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 06:29:31 2001 From: rsperberg at yahoo.com (Roger Sperberg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] When AEBPR sales halted [Was: So Sad] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In the page Elcomsoft formerly had posted about AEBPR, they indicated that Adobe had first complained to them on 6/25, five days after the program was offered for sale, giving them five days to cease and desist. The chronology continued: "06/28/2001 (10:57 AM) Adobe has sent a complaint to RegNow , our billing service (5 days are still not expired!). This time they called it 'unauthorized distribution of software'. You can read full text of this letter here. [a link to the Adobe letter] "RegNow asked us for advice what they should do in this situation. We didn't want them to be involved in our problems, and so asked to stop sales of AEBPR. " So, yes, on June 26, one day after being contacted by Adobe, the software was still being sold. But not after June 28. As has been noted often, this was well before the four Russians traveled to America. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Peter Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 8:16 AM To: y s; pablos@kadrevis.com; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Re: So Sad Well, do you want to make Dmitry responsible for, that regnow.com was still selling the software after Elcomsoft pulled it from the market? I think there is something wrong with that picture. Peter Peter, is your definition of jerk: "Anybody who disagrees with me"? Advanced eBook Processor (AEBPR) was available from www.regnow.com after ElcomSoft stopped selling it directly. It was purchased by Adobe on June,26 for $99 (see "Originalcomplaint", page 5, http://www.usaondca.com/press/assets/applets/2001_07_17_sklyarov.pdf) >From: "Peter" >Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Re: So Sad >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 00:17:41 -0400 > >Geez....what a jerk. Probably he thinks that Defcon is an Software >auction. Elcomsoft stopped the sale way before Dmitry came to Las Vegas. >Peter > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From rew at erebor.com Tue Jul 24 06:53:45 2001 From: rew at erebor.com (Ryan Waldron) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thank You All! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Aleksandr Milewski wrote: > Adobe asked the EFF to "do what they could to hold off the protests." > As the EFF didn't call the protests in the first place, they didn't > have much to lose, and if it got them to the table, everything to > gain by agreeing. > > I forget who it was that pointed out that we should "read between the > lines," but we did, and it worked. I guess what I'm wondering is whether Adobe is using the FBI as its street protestors. Now that it's got the suit underway to its liking, it can piously proclaim that it would rather the FBI drop its suit, but "Hey, it's out of our hands, we can't control what those guys decide to do." I hope not, but it would be an interesting bit of irony. Anyway, kudos to the EFF for getting this far with executive piglets at Adobe. -- Ryan Waldron ||| http://www.erebor.com ||| rew@erebor.com "The web goes ever, ever on, down from the site where it began..." From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Tue Jul 24 06:55:55 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] letter to Mueller References: Message-ID: <3B5D7E6B.C56DE6FB@sheffield.ac.uk> Following is aletter I just sent to Mueller. I enclosed a letter to Dmitry. Feel free to modify this according to your feelings and send it today. anton -------- beginning of letter -------------- 24 July 2001 Robert S. Mueller United States Attorney U.S. Department of Justice Northern District of California 11th Floor, Federal Building 450 Golden Gate Avenue, Box 36055 San Francisco, California 94102 Anton Chterenlikht Email: a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk Dear Sir, I was very happy to find out that Adobe Systems Inc. is ?withdrawing its support for the criminal complaint against Dmitry Sklyarov.? Colleen Pouliot, Senior Vice President and General Counsel for Adobe. He also said ? ( ) the prosecution of this individual in this particular case is not conducive to the best interests of any of the parties involved or the industry? ?San Jose, Calif., (July 23, 2001) (Nasdaq: ADBE)--Adobe Systems Incorporated and the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) today jointly recommended the release of Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov from federal custody? http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/20010723dcma.html I therefore hope that the US Department of Justice will revise its initial charge and free Dmitry from custody as soon as possible. I have known Dmitry for nearly ten years, both as a bright student at Moscow State Technical University (BMSTU) and then as a top-level researcher in security. He is a supportive, law abiding, husband and father of two young children who has never taken part in any illegal activities. Attached is a letter for Dmitry. If it is possible could you please pass this letter to him. Thanks a lot, Yours Sincerely, ______________________________________ Anton Chterenlikht ----- end of letter ------------- anton From seth.johnson at realmeasures.dyndns.org Tue Jul 24 06:58:08 2001 From: seth.johnson at realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] An Alternative Line of Argumentation Message-ID: Got that straight. Marketing departments in the IT field (and moreso, the companies that employ them) haven't faced the reality that people aren't merely information consumers -- we are all, and have always been, information producers. Information is used to produce information. That's what our computers are for. You can try to implement a consumer appliance (like an eBook reader) on a computer, but it isn't going to fly for long. Seth Johnson -----Original Message----- From: "Andrea" > It's all "a lot of hooey". That's what marketing departments do... > > Andrea > > From: Seth Johnson > > > Isn't this: > > > The Adobe (®) Acrobat (®) eBook Reader . . . enables you to use > > your existing Windows PC or Macintosh as a sophisticated eBook > > reading device. > > .. . . a lot of hooey? > > Seth Johnson From tom at thinkpix.com Tue Jul 24 07:13:44 2001 From: tom at thinkpix.com (tom moore) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Letter to the ACM Message-ID: <00b801c1144a$d98a00c0$3e203b40@PRODUCTION> This is an email I just sent off to the ACM. I urge all other ACM members to make their feelings felt on the issue. Sirs, As a member of the ACM, I urge you most strongly to voice opposition to the DMCA. The recent actions by Adobe Systems, Inc., has brought to the forefront what should have been obvious all along - that the DMCA is bad law, that it intentionally and maliciously restricts free speech and research, and that it represents a clear and present danger to the computer science community. Current copyright laws allow corporations to protect their intellectual property by allowing for the prosecution of copyright violations. The DMCA goes far beyond this. In an effort to secure their own positions at the expense of traditional freedoms (both civil and academic), the corporations behind the DMCA have outlawed not the act of piracy (itself already well covered by existing law), but rather have attempted to alter widely held and traditional notions of ownership and fair use. As a vital organization in academia and industry, it is important that you as the ACM take a stand against this law. As a publisher, your words would carry additional weight in the community of publishers who feel (mistakenly) that they most directly benefit. The DMCA will stiffle research and development, and will ultimately damage everyone, even the corporations who lobbied for the legislation. Please, take a public stand against the DMCA. In doing so, you will be supporting and defending the freedoms that make the work your members do possible, you will aid the cause of innovation and freedom (without which innovation cannot exist), and you will have shown that long term perspective and moral reasoning can win out over ill-concieved short term gains. You will be doing the right thing. Sincerely, Thomas Moore From proclus at iname.com Tue Jul 24 07:20:29 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] wow - the world is ending (fwd) In-Reply-To: <01072321250702.20962@frankie> Message-ID: <200107241420.f6OEKW202908@moerbeke> On 23 Jul, Andrew Lawrence wrote: > On July 23, 2001 09:06 pm, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: >> I think this guy needs to be engaged in a lively discussion about fair use. > >>> Lets see - I buy home security for my house. Someone figures out the >>> flaws and sells it to people. So all can break into my house. > > This is legal and done all the time. In fact, in my community the police > department will come, inspect your house and give you a list of "security > problems needing correction" for free! > > Seems very similar to what Dimitry did. > In fact, if I buy a lock or a security system for my house, I am entitled to take it apart, figure it out, and change it according to my own needs. The lock is my property, not the locksmith. The DMCA says that the locksmith effectively owns your house, as it were. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From declan at well.com Tue Jul 24 07:26:13 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe's explanation for vanishing statement on website Message-ID: <20010724102613.D18402@cluebot.com> From jsheldon at rochester.rr.com Tue Jul 24 07:34:23 2001 From: jsheldon at rochester.rr.com (Jason Sheldon) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Form letter and email addresses? Message-ID: <01072410342303.20023@neo> Does anyone have a form letter written up and an email addresses to the guilty parties(Ashcroft, Mueller...)? Keep up the good work everyone! Jason From declan at well.com Tue Jul 24 07:51:33 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thank You All! In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010723223759.027335e0@pop3.norton.antivirus>; from robin@eff.org on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 10:40:08PM -0700 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010723202513.027417b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.0.0.25.2.20010723202513.027417b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.0.0.25.2.20010723223759.027335e0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20010724105133.F18402@cluebot.com> It's reasonable to disagree on tactics, but the folks here who have been beating up on EFF since Friday perhaps owe the group an apology. Without EFF's sober negotiators sitting down with Adobe yesterday, Adobe would not have backed down. Without protesters in the streets outside, EFF's position would not have been as strong. Face it: You need each other, and (in this case, at least) are effective together, loosely coordinated. -Declan On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 10:40:08PM -0700, Robin Gross wrote: > I believe that we are on the same side - even if we may disagree on tactics. > > No offense taken :) > > Robin > > > At 09:29 PM 7/23/2001 -0700, Derek Balling wrote: > >No offense, but this coming from the organization that claimed they "could > >not support the protesting"? > > > >This seems a little... I dunno... hypocritical. > > > >I understand that the end result was good, but to imply that "the > >protestors" and "the EFF" were any kind of "team" is definitely (as far as > >I can tell) not the case at all. The EFF tries now to skate through the > >best of both worlds, disavowing themselves of the protestors and hanging > >them out to dry, and now claiming they were "part of the team" and a part > >of some "combined energy". > > > >Pick a side of the fence and stay on it. :) > > > >D > > > > > >At 9:15 PM -0700 7/23/01, Robin Gross wrote: > >>Thank you all for organizing so quickly and focusing your support so > >>effectively in this shared effort to free Dmitry and repeal this harmful > >>Act of Congress. > >> > >>I wish I could express how grateful we were at while at Adobe in the > >>negotiations today to be able to see the public supporters outside. There > >>is no question that it made all the difference in the day's > >>outcome. This applies equally to both those who were right outside the > >>window as well as from protesters all over the world. > >>Today's victory belongs to you folks. > >> > >>This experience clearly shows that when we focus our combined energy we > >>can get results. Now the DOJ and Robert Mueller must be convinced its > >>not in their best interests to pursue this prosecution. > >> > >>Thank you, > >>Robin > > > >-- > >+---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ > >| dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | > >| Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | > >| | driven before you, and to hear the | > >| | lamentation of their women!" | > >+---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Robin D. Gross - Cyberspace Attorney @ Law > Electronic Frontier Foundation > 454 Shotwell Street, San Francisco, CA 94110 > e: robin@eff.org w: http://www.eff.org > p: 415.863.5459 f: 415.436.9993 > http://www.eff.org/cafe > http://www.eff.org/Intellectual_property/ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From mark at blorch.org Tue Jul 24 07:53:32 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FBI Protest In-Reply-To: <0107240304.04BET00@lowerlights.com> References: <0107240304.04BET00@lowerlights.com> Message-ID: <01072407533200.19049@bilbo.blorch.org> On Tuesday 24 July 2001 03:04, kastlyn@lowerlights.com wrote: > "this is a random idea: > > - find 100+ people willing to participate > - buy handcuffs in your local hardware store or sex shops > - everyone handcuff themselves (keep the keys in reach :) ) and > turn yourself in to the FBI in one public, organized and > ANNOUNCED TO THE MEDIA ONLY event for "I can break ROT13, too" > or some other appropriate slogan." > > Tom, this is an excellent idea! Maybe all wearing signs saying things > like: > "I am a circumvention device." I *like this idea. We brazenly go about "decoding" information all the time by the very acts of reading and thinking and all that subversive stuff. Hm. Does this mean that under the DMCA it's illegal for me to understand advertising? Mark From kreizykid at hotmail.com Tue Jul 24 08:03:44 2001 From: kreizykid at hotmail.com (Josiah Draper) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: So Sad Message-ID: 1 volunteer (me) is going to write to that guy! >-----Original Message----- >From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net >[mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Pablos Kadrevis >Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 9:22 PM >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: So Sad > > >We need another volunteer to write back to this guy: > >--On Monday, July 23, 2001 9:23 AM -0500 Marc Bech > >wrote: > > > You guys should be ashamed of yourself. You are nothing but hypocrites > > and thugs yourselves, and no better people than Dimitry himself. But > > then again, you probably revel in that, and have nothing better to do > > with your creative talents. > > > > Dimitry is not just trying to circumvent a security loophole in the > > eReader, his is trying to allow, for his own profit, the illegal >copying > > of eBooks. Passing around a book to a friend after one has read it is > > one thing, because when your friend has it, you no longer do. Passing > > around copies of a book, on-line or not, is illegal, because now there > > are multiple copies of it. You are not just hitting the pocketbooks of > > Adobe, but you are stealing from the authors and they're publishers. >Do > > you go out and purchase photocopies of hardcopy books too? > > > > It would be one thing to POINT out a flaw in the eReader to Adobe. > > Dimitry went way beyond this to allow the illegal copying of software. > > So, do you illegal copy any software that is purchased too? This is >what > > you are condoning. > > > > Dimitry is not pointing out a flaw for the sense of saving the >planet's > > computers from security hackers such that needs to be done with > > Microsoft's operating system and Internet Exploder. Creating a >loophole > > in the eReader again ONLY allows the illegal copying of software, > > nothing less. > > > > Touching picture of his family you put on your site too. Maybe Dimitry > > should've considered his family and children more before he carried >out > > such a careless act of on-line terrorism. If he is so smart, maybe he > > should've applied for a job at Adobe and done something positive. Too > > late for that. > > > > YOU and Dimitry are the thugs. > > > > I boycottt everything YOU stand for. > > > > And yes, you are being hypocritical for calling for an Adobe boycott >on > > a website that was created with Adobe software. Pathetic actually. > > > > Marc > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From noring at olagrande.net Tue Jul 24 08:06:38 2001 From: noring at olagrande.net (noring@olagrande.net) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW: I applaud Adobe for withdrawing criminal charges against Sklyarov -- an opinion piece Message-ID: <200107241506.KAA16843@og1.olagrande.net> [I just made the following post to The eBook Community (ebook-community at YahooGroups) and thought it may be of interest to some of you. Jon] The following piece posted to The eBook Community (TeBC) is solely my personal opinion, and does not necessarily reflect the opinions of my associates nor of my several organizational affiliations. ===== Regarding Monday's joint press release by Adobe and EFF, I applaud Adobe for taking the moral and ethical high road and withdrawing its support for the criminal complaint against Dimitry Sklyarov. It is what I have come to expect from one of the world's premier software companies. Let's pray that the Justice Department will follow the joint recommendation, and drop all criminal complaints against Sklyarov so he can return home to his wife and children in Russia. It is now important for the many and various ebook industry players to learn from these events, and to constructively work together, despite our inherent differences, to build the ebook future. Pointing fingers, and dwelling on past events (other than to learn from them) is useless and non-constructive, a waste of energy. From don.wills at dbcsoftware.com Tue Jul 24 08:09:33 2001 From: don.wills at dbcsoftware.com (Don Wills) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thank You All! In-Reply-To: <20010724105133.F18402@cluebot.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010723202513.027417b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.0.0.25.2.20010723202513.027417b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.0.0.25.2.20010723223759.027335e0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <20010724105133.F18402@cluebot.com> Message-ID: Hello Declan, At 10:51 AM -0400 7/24/01, Declan McCullagh wrote: >Without EFF's sober negotiators sitting down with Adobe yesterday, >Adobe would not have backed down. How in the world can you make that statement? Are you omniscient? My guess (which is no better than yours) is that Adobe would have backed down even if EFF did not meet with them. The negative PR is what Adobe wanted to avoid - and EFF was mostly irrelevant to that. Don Wills From marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca Tue Jul 24 08:23:56 2001 From: marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca (Marvin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thank You All! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Ryan Waldron wrote: > I guess what I'm wondering is whether Adobe is using the FBI as its > street protestors. Now that it's got the suit underway to its liking, > it can piously proclaim that it would rather the FBI drop its suit, > but "Hey, it's out of our hands, we can't control what those guys > decide to do." > > I hope not, but it would be an interesting bit of irony. That is exactly what is happening. (1) They are still crowing about how the DMCA "worked". They started the perhaps irreversable chain of events. And they are still the enemy, continuing to defend the DMCA. In the long term it is the DMCA that is the problem. There will be plenty more Sklyarov's in the future so long as companies like Adobe fight for it. AND Dmitry is still in jail! Austin Hook Calgary From mark at blorch.org Tue Jul 24 08:16:14 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Next-Mueller! In-Reply-To: <008701c1140c$a6fac560$0200a8c0@jwin> References: <224508090.20010724033443@elcomsoft.com> <20010723233621.X98211@networkcommand.com> <008701c1140c$a6fac560$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: <01072408161401.19049@bilbo.blorch.org> On Monday 23 July 2001 23:48, roylo wrote: > and from http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/contact/usalist.html#can > > Robert S. Mueller, III, United States Attorney > 450 Golden Gate Ave., Box 36055, San Francisco 94102 > *1301 Clay St., Ste. 340S, Oakland 94612 > 280 South First St., Rm. 371, San Jose 95113 > > hmm... that looks like a good place for the next protest It does, it does. Mueller's own office. Here's a thought: a "drop the charges" rally on a Monday. Gives people time to converge on Sunday night. The Bay Area is a bit of a drive but I'd do it. If the West Coast folk grab a friend or two, head to Mueller's own office, we could mount a decent sized rally I'd hazard. Folks who are too far away or just can't make the trip could rally at the closet office of the DOJ they could find. And if we can keep pushing, picking up support, the DOJ would see this is just growing, not fading. And definitely pressure on Senators (letters, email, what have you) raising questions about Mueller's confirmation. If the FBI is going to arrest people on the flimsiest complaints from corporations and without any kind of serious investigation (as it looks like they did in this case), Mueller ought to be grilled. The FBI has gotten a *lot of bad press lately. I think they'd be touchy about more. So let's *give 'em some more. Mark From tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca Tue Jul 24 08:19:54 2001 From: tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you In-Reply-To: <00ce01c113fc$736a09a0$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: Small correction, there are Christians in Iraq and you can eat pork chops not only on the plane. But then you can get arrested just coz they don't like you. Try to find a better analogy. TAA On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, roylo wrote: > You are kidding me right?? > Didn't took any law related class when I was in college but this is a bit > off. > > So, I (or anyone from US) ate a pork chop before you on board the plane to > Iraq; It is "OK" for local > Islam police to arrest me??? > > Err.. Am I really living in US? somehow I got a feeling that I'm living in > China now > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Peter > To: roylo ; free-sklyarov@zork.net > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 9:49 PM > Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you > > > No, unfortunatly they do have the right. We only can get them with > violation of international human rights if they have not told Dmitry > that he has the right to contact his Ambassy. > Peter > > Free Dmitry Sklyarov > Stop the DMCA > ---------------------------------------- > http://www.freesklyarov.org > http://www.boycottadobe.org > -----Original Message----- > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of roylo > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 12:41 AM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you > > > Personally, I think the issue on "FBI Arrest Dmitry" is bigger than > "Dmitry vs. Adobe" or "Dmitry vs. DoJ" > > Think about it, one day you walk down the street in Iraq and you got > pick up by the local > Islam police because you had a pork chop before you on board the plane > to Iraq. > Ok, maybe I can understand that ('cause it is Iraq") > > Think about it; Does FBI really has the right to arrest Dmitry? Or did > the power of "Big Brother" is getting out of the hand. > > I don't think FBI has the right to arrest Dmitry in the first place, and > Dmitry should be release NOW. > And I mean NOW. > > I don't think Dmitry want to stay in the jail for another day, neither > would you and I. > > If anyone lives in San Jose area want to do a protest in front of FBI > build, please send a e-mail me. > > > 'Cause Dmitry should NOT be stay in jail for another day. > From esper at sherohman.org Tue Jul 24 08:19:21 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA-minnesota In-Reply-To: ; from moseng2@underwhelm.org on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 04:33:44AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010724101921.G31377@sherohman.org> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 04:33:44AM -0500, nobody wrote: > Minnesota locals are encouraged to join the discussion list, yahoo > registration required: Any chance of moving the list to someplace where that requirement doesn't apply? According to netcraft, you're running linux (but please tell me you're not really still using apache 1.0.0...), in which case I'd be happy to help you set up Mailman so you can handle the list yourself. Failing that, I already host a number of lists and could certainly add another to my collection, but I have minor reservations about splitting up the information across multiple domains. -- With the arrest of Dimitry Sklyarov it has become apparent that it is not safe for non US software engineers to visit the United States. - Alan Cox "To prevent unauthorized reading..." - Adobe eBook reader license From eric at tully.com Tue Jul 24 08:20:47 2001 From: eric at tully.com (Eric Tully) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thank You All! In-Reply-To: References: <20010724105133.F18402@cluebot.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010723202513.027417b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.0.0.25.2.20010723202513.027417b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.0.0.25.2.20010723223759.027335e0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <20010724105133.F18402@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010724112047.009a69f0@208.231.13.113> Don, You are right - it's anyone's guess whether Adobe would have backed down anyway. But no matter whether the EFF *caused* Adobe's retreat or was "mostly irrelevant", there's still no reason why anyone should be beating them up. We're all on the same side here, even if we disagree on tactics, as Declan said. - Eric At 10:09 AM 7/24/01 -0500, Don Wills wrote: >Hello Declan, > >At 10:51 AM -0400 7/24/01, Declan McCullagh wrote: >>Without EFF's sober negotiators sitting down with Adobe yesterday, >>Adobe would not have backed down. > >How in the world can you make that statement? Are you omniscient? > >My guess (which is no better than yours) is that Adobe would have >backed down even if EFF did not meet with them. The negative PR is >what Adobe wanted to avoid - and EFF was mostly irrelevant to that. > >Don Wills > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu Tue Jul 24 12:22:25 2001 From: junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu (Peter D. Junger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Getting the word out to publishers In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 24 Jul 2001 10:13:44 EDT." <00b801c1144a$d98a00c0$3e203b40@PRODUCTION> Message-ID: <200107241922.f6OJMPV27292@samsara.law.cwru.edu> One of the big problems that Adobe faced if they considered filing a civil suit, was that it is violation of the Anti-Circumvention provisions of the DMCA to traffick in devices and technologies (which may not even include software) that violate a right of a copyright owner or allow the user to get access to a copyrighted work without the authority of the copyright owner. But Adobe is not the copyright owner of the works that are published using the Adobe e-book software. One way to make sure that the government cannot successfully prosecute Sklyarov is to get as many publishers as possible to state that they authorize the purchasers of the e-books that they publish to use any software, including that written by Sklyarov, to gain access to the contents of any (or even just some) of the e-books that they have published using Adobe (or similar) software. The University presses and O'Reilly and other technical publishers and the ACM, etc., should have little or no problem with this. And even if they would be somewhat reluctant normally, one can point out to them that they are the one's who---by not giving their authority---are keeping Sklyarov in jail. I am trying to pack up for a temporary move and am working on an article that relates to the Sklyarov case that I thought was done and that I now have to revise, so I don't have time to pursue this idea. I suspect that you have publicists available and people with better contacts than I do, so I turn the idea over to you for implementation. -- Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH EMAIL: junger@samsara.law.cwru.edu URL: http://samsara.law.cwru.edu NOTE: junger@pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu no longer exists From jim.thompson at pobox.com Tue Jul 24 07:32:27 2001 From: jim.thompson at pobox.com (Jim Thompson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Next-Mueller! In-Reply-To: <01072408161401.19049@bilbo.blorch.org> References: <224508090.20010724033443@elcomsoft.com> <20010723233621.X98211@networkcommand.com> <008701c1140c$a6fac560$0200a8c0@jwin> <01072408161401.19049@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <15197.34503.192855.164801@belboz.blkbox.com> >>>>> "Mark" == Mark K Bilbo writes: Mark> The FBI has gotten a *lot of bad press lately. I think they'd Mark> be touchy about more... ...and maybe in the mood to bust heads. Be careful, folks. Jim -- jim.thompson@pobox.com http://jimthompson.org From proclus at iname.com Tue Jul 24 08:32:24 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thank You All! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107241532.f6OFWR203077@moerbeke> On 24 Jul, Don Wills wrote: > Hello Declan, > > At 10:51 AM -0400 7/24/01, Declan McCullagh wrote: >>Without EFF's sober negotiators sitting down with Adobe yesterday, >>Adobe would not have backed down. > > How in the world can you make that statement? Are you omniscient? > > My guess (which is no better than yours) is that Adobe would have > backed down even if EFF did not meet with them. The negative PR is > what Adobe wanted to avoid - and EFF was mostly irrelevant to that. I was a strong supporter of the boycott and the protests, but I think that you are overstating the case. The EFF was not irrelevant, and in fact they played a pivotal role, as did many of the protestors. Moreover, alot of the press that we got was exactly because we were "under the EFF umbrella" as it were. That is clearly good for the movement, not bad. Please don't dis the EFF so badly, because we need them as partners. One day you may be glad that they are there. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > > Don Wills > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From rabbi at quickie.net Tue Jul 24 08:34:19 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe dropping charges, US Pressing ahead In-Reply-To: <87elr6hejo.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: On 24 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > So, we a) gave them the punishment and b) got what we wanted. Any > other work on Adobe is just us exercising our anger, which could > easily be exercised on other worthy targets. Especially if Dmitry > isn't set free soon. *And* it would be detrimental in the future. We'd be sending the message that "if you screw up, it doesn't matter if you back down, we'll beat you until you're dead or we're tired." Adobe only gave in because it thought that doing so would lift some of the bad PR. We need to give them that much. (And don't worry, the press will associate Adobe's screw-up with this case as long as it is in the media.) -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From mark at blorch.org Tue Jul 24 08:42:12 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Next-Mueller! In-Reply-To: <15197.34503.192855.164801@belboz.blkbox.com> References: <224508090.20010724033443@elcomsoft.com> <01072408161401.19049@bilbo.blorch.org> <15197.34503.192855.164801@belboz.blkbox.com> Message-ID: <01072408421202.19049@bilbo.blorch.org> On Tuesday 24 July 2001 07:32, Jim Thompson wrote: > >>>>> "Mark" == Mark K Bilbo writes: > > Mark> The FBI has gotten a *lot of bad press lately. I think they'd > Mark> be touchy about more... > > ...and maybe in the mood to bust heads. Be careful, folks. Maybe so *but that would just look worse for them. All the rallies, in every city, were calm, peaceful and had articulate people speaking to the press. Not at all your screaming radicals eh? The press has caught wind that Something Is Up. Educated, professional, technical types are actually taking to the streets. Emerging from offices and cubicles and risking bad sunburns. But, seriously, this would be very, very, VERY hard to "spin" as "we cracked the heads of dangerous radicals." Particularly when you've got the cell phone toting, Net savvy, geeks out there who can have pictures and a website online before you can start swinging the clubs. And I think the press is going to pay even more attention now. This protest sprang up out of "nowhere." Happened in cities all over the US. And a corporation ended up wetting its pants and running away with its tail between its legs. I suspect if we throw in a bit more coordination for another protest, we'd be able to pull in more of the mainstream press than this last time. Right about now, some of the major news organizations are staring at the photos and wondering what's going on. I'm sure they're used to the screaming, rock throwing types. But programmers? Geeks on the march? IT folk with credentials and professional association memberships? I mean, huh? Also, speaking of Mueller, I think I'll head over to my senator web sites and start launching some emails. Mark From thedward at barsoom.net Tue Jul 24 08:45:00 2001 From: thedward at barsoom.net (the Edward Blevins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Freenet (was "Distributing AEBPR, contact to Dmitry?") In-Reply-To: <007a01c11439$cb055420$2ce45ad4@b1x6v0>; from hanke@volny.cz on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 02:10:41PM +0200 References: <007a01c11439$cb055420$2ce45ad4@b1x6v0> Message-ID: <20010724104500.K9555@barsoom.net> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 02:10:41PM +0200, Hynek 0A4h Hanke wrote: > I am interested in freedom of speech and these things > as deeply as most of you are. I have developed a simple > system to distribute such things and I consulted it with > one lawyer. It seems working. > Take a look at the freenet project It aims to do something similar to what you are suggesting, but on a much broader scale (you can put anything into freenet). If you liked your idea, I think you'll really like freenet. -- the Edward Blevins (512) 436-9576 /(0\ mi tavla fo la lojban .i xu do go'i? \1)/ .i.e'u ko vitke fi zoi .url. http://www.lojban.org .url. Today is Setting Orange, the 59th day of Confusion, 3167. From georgemolson at home.com Tue Jul 24 11:52:10 2001 From: georgemolson at home.com (George Molson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: free-sklyarov digest, Vol 1 #119 - 14 msgs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I like Hynek's idea because it legitimizes the storage of the data, but it would also be good to distribute the application (or the specific algorithm that performs the decryption) kind of like a lot of people did with DeCSS. If we could reduce the algorithm to even 80-100 lines of code (RSA decryption algorithm can be reduced to 4 in PERL) we could put it on t-shirts. I have root access to some servers I administer- I could host sources / binaries on multiple FTP's & the Gnutella network in the event that sklyarov does get persecuted. On the one hand I don't want to prevent his company from making $ from this application, but if it is deemed illegal to sell / distribute the application it would give us leverage to a) denigrate the Adobe standard b) Increase awareness of what has happened by posting information on a decryption utility that uses the algorithm c) Exercise our right to study and understand different security technologies. Please tell me what you think. If you have copies of the application, you can upload them to. I would like to use them only in the event that the technology is deemed illegal to sell / distribute. ftp://24.112.64.210 Paradigm From shag-sklyarov at booyaka.com Tue Jul 24 08:48:11 2001 From: shag-sklyarov at booyaka.com (Paul Walmsley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thank You All! Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote: > It's reasonable to disagree on tactics, but the folks here who have > been beating up on EFF since Friday perhaps owe the group an apology. > > Without EFF's sober negotiators sitting down with Adobe yesterday, > Adobe would not have backed down. Without protesters in the streets > outside, EFF's position would not have been as strong. Declan, the problem arose when the EFF tried to do something that it didn't have the authority to do, which was, "PUT THE JULY 23 PROTESTS ON HOLD." We -- and the EFF -- are fortunate that their Monday meeting with Adobe produced results. The alternative would have meant a significant loss of face for the EFF. Perhaps they had some advance knowledge that this was the likely outcome. But with the news coverage in several venues that the EFF was "calling off the protests," they ran the immediate risk of sapping crucial strength away from the protests. As you and Robin point out, it's a good thing this call was ignored. It's one thing for the EFF to choose not to participate in protests, and another thing entirely to try to "call the protests off." - Paul From mark at blorch.org Tue Jul 24 08:46:54 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The American Association of Publishers issues a press release In-Reply-To: <20010723174208.O16178@zork.net> References: <20010723092302.I16178@zork.net> <5.0.2.1.0.20010723124231.00ae9d20@mail.utstar.com> <20010723174208.O16178@zork.net> Message-ID: <01072408465404.19049@bilbo.blorch.org> On Monday 23 July 2001 17:42, Seth David Schoen wrote: > Sreeni R. Nair writes: > > Exactly! Also, none of my favorite publishers (O'Reilly, Addison-Wesley) > > seem to be members of AAP. In any case, after Seth's exhortation, I have > > sent a letter to the Harvard University Press. > > Thanks, I've noted that on my page. I do think the academic > publishers will be open to recognizing the harms of the DMCA. > > I've suggested that some people physically go to the University of > California Press in person (maybe just because I actually know where > it is, unlike other university presses which may exist). I noticed Scientific American is a AAP member. I sent them an email expressing major "disappointment" and "loss of respect." They've been anti-DMCA for a while now. Wonder if they even paid any attention to the babblings of the AAP? Mark From dredd at megacity.org Tue Jul 24 08:50:54 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thank You All! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >It's one thing for the EFF to choose not to participate in protests, and >another thing entirely to try to "call the protests off." ... and still another for them afterwards to pretend that the EFF and the protestors were part of some unified "team" or "force", when they were, in fact, two disparate forces fighting towards a common goal. D -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From krw5 at qwest.net Tue Jul 24 08:54:37 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: So Sad In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072408543700.12909@stumpy> One question for Indignant Marc should suffice: Is it illegal to invent, manufacture or possess a locksmith's tools? roger On Tuesday 24 July 2001 08:03, you wrote: > >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: So Sad > > > > > >We need another volunteer to write back to this guy: > > > >--On Monday, July 23, 2001 9:23 AM -0500 Marc Bech > > > > > >wrote: > > > You guys should be ashamed of yourself. You are nothing but hypocrites > > > and thugs yourselves, and no better people than Dimitry himself. But > > > then again, you probably revel in that, and have nothing better to do > > > with your creative talents. > > > > > > Dimitry is not just trying to circumvent a security loophole in the > > > eReader, his is trying to allow, for his own profit, the illegal > > > >copying > > > > > of eBooks. Passing around a book to a friend after one has read it is > > > one thing, because when your friend has it, you no longer do. Passing > > > around copies of a book, on-line or not, is illegal, because now there > > > are multiple copies of it. You are not just hitting the pocketbooks of > > > Adobe, but you are stealing from the authors and they're publishers. > > > >Do > > > > > you go out and purchase photocopies of hardcopy books too? > > > > > > It would be one thing to POINT out a flaw in the eReader to Adobe. > > > Dimitry went way beyond this to allow the illegal copying of software. > > > So, do you illegal copy any software that is purchased too? This is > > > >what > > > > > you are condoning. > > > > > > Dimitry is not pointing out a flaw for the sense of saving the > > > >planet's > > > > > computers from security hackers such that needs to be done with > > > Microsoft's operating system and Internet Exploder. Creating a > > > >loophole > > > > > in the eReader again ONLY allows the illegal copying of software, > > > nothing less. > > > > > > Touching picture of his family you put on your site too. Maybe Dimitry > > > should've considered his family and children more before he carried > > > >out > > > > > such a careless act of on-line terrorism. If he is so smart, maybe he > > > should've applied for a job at Adobe and done something positive. Too > > > late for that. > > > > > > YOU and Dimitry are the thugs. > > > > > > I boycottt everything YOU stand for. > > > > > > And yes, you are being hypocritical for calling for an Adobe boycott > > > >on > > > > > a website that was created with Adobe software. Pathetic actually. > > > > > > Marc > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From seth.johnson at realmeasures.dyndns.org Tue Jul 24 08:48:18 2001 From: seth.johnson at realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thank You All! Message-ID: In organizing, you usually see a whole lot more vituperative divides crop up over exactly the kind of practical question that's been discussed here regarding EFF's call to put the demonstrations on hold. I personally was tremendously impressed by the way the question didn't develop that way in the Free Dmitry effort. Seth Johnson From: Declan McCullagh > It's reasonable to disagree on tactics, but the folks here who have > been beating up on EFF since Friday perhaps owe the group an apology. > > Without EFF's sober negotiators sitting down with Adobe yesterday, > Adobe would not have backed down. Without protesters in the streets > outside, EFF's position would not have been as strong. > > Face it: You need each other, and (in this case, at least) are > effective together, loosely coordinated. From kastlyn at lowerlights.com Tue Jul 24 09:57:40 2001 From: kastlyn at lowerlights.com (kastlyn@lowerlights.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF vs(?) us Message-ID: <0107240957.0DZRZ00@lowerlights.com> >How in the world can you make that statement? Are you omniscient? > Let's keep the personal insults out of this. This is a matter of opinion, and both sides have their points, but passing around insults does nothing to keep us untied for the common goal. Let's just set the put-downs aside and focus on the issues. >My guess (which is no better than yours) is that Adobe would have >backed down even if EFF did not meet with them. The negative PR is >what Adobe wanted to avoid - and EFF was mostly irrelevant to that. > >Don Wills Don, I respect your opinion, but I happen to disagree with you. I believe that it would have been easier for Adobe to ignore the protestors had the EFF not been INSIDE, and likewise, if the protestors had not been OUTSIDE. I agree with the EFF's decision to try and hold off on the protests until after the negotiations, and I also agree with the decision the rest of us made to go ahead with the protests despite that. The EFF didn't sabatoge the protests by doing what they did, and we didn't sabatoge the negotiations by protesting. I think everyone made the correct decision in doing what they knew to be right yesterday. Regardless of who was inside and who was outside, we all were (and still are) on the same side of the fence, just on opposite ends. We all had a victory yesterday, but it doesn't end there. So, let's stop the bickering and start organizing our efforts WITH the EFF, AGAINST the DOJ. United we'll stand, but if we divide ourselves, we may very well fail, and it's certainly counter-productive to getting things done. -=Amie Christensen=- From arya at ofhell.org Tue Jul 24 08:57:43 2001 From: arya at ofhell.org (sjh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Austin protest? In-Reply-To: <01072408421202.19049@bilbo.blorch.org>; from mark@blorch.org on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 08:42:12AM -0700 References: <224508090.20010724033443@elcomsoft.com> <01072408161401.19049@bilbo.blorch.org> <15197.34503.192855.164801@belboz.blkbox.com> <01072408421202.19049@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <20010724105743.A9956@ofhell.org> For the second round of protests, would anyone in the Central Texas area be interested in doing a demonstration in Austin? There's no Adobe office here, but we do have the state capital. If there's enough interest, then I'd be willing to be the contact person for Austin. -Sally From tom at thinkpix.com Tue Jul 24 09:03:30 2001 From: tom at thinkpix.com (tom moore) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of AAP member companies Message-ID: <028401c1145a$2ee77f20$3e203b40@PRODUCTION> http://www.publishers.org/home/abouta/members.htm Note the number of scientific and academic publications (AAAS, Nature, IEEE, ACM, as well as most of the large university houses). IMHO, these corporations sould be individually targeted with requests to publicly distance themselves from the AAP stance. From robertl1 at home.com Tue Jul 24 09:10:37 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724090717.033916b0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Mark, normally I would be in complete agreement with you. Mueller seems an obvious next point of attack. I brought the same thing up on the us.slash.net#sklyarov IRC back when the list was dead. Then I started to do a little background research. There is a sudden complication. Mueller has just been diagnosed with prostrate cancer. This makes him a very sympathetic character for old men (like senators and congressmen). I know, I am 60, and have a brother 77 dieing from prostrate cancer. I assume you are much younger so such a calculation would not be part of your routines, but believe me it could well be part of a 50-70 year old senators. Mueller is prognosticated to survive the cancer treatment, so this makes him a hero. Plus he may get a delay in having his confirmation hearings, which could throw off the timing. The other place for us to look is the DOJ, which really holds the Dmitry cards now. Where is an effective place there to apply pressure? At 08:53 PM 7/23/01 -0700, you wrote: >On Monday 23 July 2001 19:54, Izel Sulam wrote: >> Mark K. Bilbo mark@blorch.org wrote: >> >> The next weakest link is Mueller. [snip] As is pointed out the FBI has serious problems. I am simply skeptical of the value, in light of his other problems, of beating up too much on Mueller. He could be a very effective and sympathetic witness for the other side. After all getting support from people thru the media is rarely about "Just the facts, Mam". Bob La Quey From arya at ofhell.org Tue Jul 24 09:11:16 2001 From: arya at ofhell.org (sjh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Austin protest? In-Reply-To: <20010724110710.M9555@barsoom.net>; from thedward@barsoom.net on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 11:07:10AM -0500 References: <224508090.20010724033443@elcomsoft.com> <01072408161401.19049@bilbo.blorch.org> <15197.34503.192855.164801@belboz.blkbox.com> <01072408421202.19049@bilbo.blorch.org> <20010724105743.A9956@ofhell.org> <20010724110710.M9555@barsoom.net> Message-ID: <20010724111116.A10028@ofhell.org> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 11:07:10AM -0500, the Edward Blevins wrote: > > Count me in. I missed the first protest here in Austin, but only because of circumstances > beyond my control. Thanks! Oh... I hadn't been aware that there was a protest here yesterday. The extremely high volume of this list has made me less than thorough when reading it :) If whoever organized the first one wants to take care of the second one, I'm okay with that... I only volunteered because I thought no one else had. -Sally From declan at well.com Tue Jul 24 08:21:03 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thank You All! In-Reply-To: References: <20010724105133.F18402@cluebot.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010723202513.027417b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.0.0.25.2.20010723202513.027417b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <5.0.0.25.2.20010723223759.027335e0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <20010724105133.F18402@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010724111951.0208c360@mail.well.com> You conveniently snipped the other part of my message, which said both the protesters and EFF needed each other. Perhaps "would not" was a bit strong, but the dynamic would have been substantially different if there had not been a cordial meeting taking place at the same time. -Declan At 10:09 AM 7/24/01 -0500, Don Wills wrote: >Hello Declan, > >At 10:51 AM -0400 7/24/01, Declan McCullagh wrote: >>Without EFF's sober negotiators sitting down with Adobe yesterday, >>Adobe would not have backed down. > >How in the world can you make that statement? Are you omniscient? > >My guess (which is no better than yours) is that Adobe would have backed >down even if EFF did not meet with them. The negative PR is what Adobe >wanted to avoid - and EFF was mostly irrelevant to that. > >Don Wills From noring at olagrande.net Tue Jul 24 09:27:27 2001 From: noring at olagrande.net (noring@olagrande.net) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA-minnesota Message-ID: <200107241627.LAA20142@og1.olagrande.net> >> Minnesota locals are encouraged to join the discussion list, yahoo >> registration required: >Any chance of moving the list to someplace where that requirement doesn't >apply? According to netcraft, you're running linux (but please tell me >you're not really still using apache 1.0.0...), in which case I'd be happy >to help you set up Mailman so you can handle the list yourself. Failing >that, I already host a number of lists and could certainly add another to >my collection, but I have minor reservations about splitting up the >information across multiple domains. Typically, Yahoo Groups can be set up so a subscriber does not have to obtain a Yahoo registration. I know, I run several lists from Yahoo Groups after moving from Majordomo. Jon Noring From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Jul 24 09:35:53 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of AAP member companies In-Reply-To: <028401c1145a$2ee77f20$3e203b40@PRODUCTION>; from tom@thinkpix.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 12:03:30PM -0400 References: <028401c1145a$2ee77f20$3e203b40@PRODUCTION> Message-ID: <20010724093553.L14917@zork.net> tom moore writes: > http://www.publishers.org/home/abouta/members.htm > > Note the number of scientific and academic publications (AAAS, Nature, IEEE, > ACM, as well as most of the large university houses). > > IMHO, these corporations sould be individually targeted with requests to > publicly distance themselves from the AAP stance. I have already repeatedly suggested this and set up a list at http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/publishers.html where I'm keeping track of who writes to whom. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From tabindak at best.com Tue Jul 24 09:36:49 2001 From: tabindak at best.com (Tabinda N. Khan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724090717.033916b0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com>; from robertl1@home.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 09:10:37AM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724090717.033916b0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <20010724093649.A25570@shell9.ba.best.com> Quoting Bob La Quey: > > There is a sudden complication. Mueller has just been diagnosed with > prostrate cancer. This makes him a very sympathetic character for old > men (like senators and congressmen). I know, I am 60, and have a brother > 77 dieing from prostrate cancer. I assume you are much younger so such > a calculation would not be part of your routines, but believe me it > could well be part of a 50-70 year old senators. Mueller is prognosticated > to survive the cancer treatment, so this makes him a hero. Plus he may > get a delay in having his confirmation hearings, which could throw off > the timing. > > The other place for us to look is the DOJ, which really holds the > Dmitry cards now. Where is an effective place there to apply pressure? From owlswan at eff.org Tue Jul 24 09:42:09 2001 From: owlswan at eff.org (Henry Schwan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A view from EFF (was Thank You All!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In the letter Shari Steele wrote to Adobe setting up the negotiations we were clear that we couldn't control the protest. We then proceeded to act in good faith, as we attempt to do at all times with all concerned, which is why we have a reasonable reputation. At the point we pulled out, if that was what it was, we changed our website, I being one of the people who spent most of the day making multiple revisions to the site, transferred the rideboard code we were hosting as we divested, which was as much as we could do without crossing the line, and proceeded to prepare for negotiations. I can't even tell you about the internal discussion, but there was lots, and most, if not all of us were very torn. It would have been much more exciting from a certain standpoint to just go to the rally and build it to a bigger size. But would it have helped Dmitry? He is still not out of jail, but he is one step closer. Whether we worked together or not the effect was the same, and I don't think anyone at EFF is taking credit for everything that happened. > the problem arose when the EFF tried to do something that it didn't have > the authority to do, which was, "PUT THE JULY 23 PROTESTS ON HOLD." > > We -- and the EFF -- are fortunate that their Monday meeting with Adobe > produced results. The alternative would have meant a significant loss of > face for the EFF. Perhaps they had some advance knowledge that this was > the likely outcome. But with the news coverage in several venues that the > EFF was "calling off the protests," they ran the immediate risk of sapping > crucial strength away from the protests. As you and Robin point out, it's > a good thing this call was ignored. > > It's one thing for the EFF to choose not to participate in protests, and > another thing entirely to try to "call the protests off." > - Paul This is what we had to do to get through the door, no more no less, and in doing so we acted in good faith with Adobe. It was very difficult to act in good faith with both sides, but I don't think we did a bad job. -- Regards, Henry Schwan Paralegal Electronic Frontier Foundation (415)436-9333 x114 (415)436-9333 (fax) owlswan@eff.org From ilya at theIlya.com Tue Jul 24 09:38:27 2001 From: ilya at theIlya.com (Ilya Volynets) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thank You All! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0107240938270Q.12942@gateway> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > That is exactly what is happening. (1) They are still crowing about how > the DMCA "worked". They started the perhaps irreversable chain of events. > And they are still the enemy, continuing to defend the DMCA. In the > long term it is the DMCA that is the problem. In the long term non-inforcement of unti-trust law is a problem. Look at what's happening arround: M$ is still not broken up (and reason -- Billy bought Senate). All of big companies (M$, IBM, etc.) are just buing out small ones, thus destroing small business layer of computer programming market. Further competitive technologies are being destroyed by buing and shutting them down. For example look at what happened to Alpha processors: Intell owns them now!!! What do you think is going to happen? When Compaq bought SEC, they shut down 2(?) of 4(?) (my memory is failing me, so numbers might be wrong) Alpha factories. > There will be plenty more > Sklyarov's in the future so long as companies like Adobe fight for it. > AND Dmitry is still in jail! We can (and should) focus all energy we can on DMCA, but we should remember, that as long as corporations (and not only Software ones) continue to grow, and arbitarily merge, they will be buying things like DMCA whenever they want to. > Austin Hook > Calgary Ilya. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtdpIcACgkQtKh84cA8u2ldWwCgiEMrM0HNaC/NE+AAjhCDJwDG RNoAnRZG3pu9amnFbanIU0KcLKTrdLuD =4rfR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From pmasloch at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 09:39:33 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] US Attorney, CA Message-ID: Central District: John S. Gordon, United States Attorney 1200 U.S. Cthse., 312 N. Spring St., Los Angeles 90012 PHONE FAX (213) 894-2434 (213) 894-0141 Eastern District: John K. Vincent, United States Attorney 501 "I" Street, Suite 10-100, Sacramento 95814-2322 PHONE FAX (916) 554-2700 (916) 554-2900 Northern District: Robert S. Mueller, III, United States Attorney 450 Golden Gate Ave., Box 36055, San Francisco 94102 PHONE FAX (415) 436-7200 (415) 436-7234 Southern District: Patrick O'Toole, United States Attorney 880 Front St., Room 6293, San Diego 92101-8893 PHONE FAX (619) 557-5610 (619) 557-5782 Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org From shag-sklyarov at booyaka.com Tue Jul 24 09:43:02 2001 From: shag-sklyarov at booyaka.com (Paul Walmsley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Denver protest update (fwd) Message-ID: About fifteen of us protested Dmitry's arrest and the DMCA in front of the Byron G. White Federal Courthouse from noon to 2 PM today. It was great to see the turnout; many people had to drive over an hour to make it to Denver. Check out the great pictures posted by Samartha at Highlights included: - Randy's DMCA protest song (maybe we can get him to post the lyrics?); - the _1500_ flyers that Bryan was able to duplicate; - being informed that we needed a permit to take pictures of the building, and being informed that one could not take pictures of its entrance at all; - the color copies of Dmitry's photo that Sonja ran off at Kinko's; - the ROT-13 "secret decoder rings" that someone brought; - Jason's "Free Dmitry" t-shirt; - and the extra water that someone (Sonja?) brought. must say, it was a blast. apologies to everyone who was unintentionally subjected to the execrable Japanese fast food we got afterwards ... - Paul From dfm at area.com Tue Jul 24 09:43:30 2001 From: dfm at area.com (Dan Martinez) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's Status Message-ID: <20010724094330.G3122@area.com> So, last I heard, (a) no one knows exactly where Dmitry is, and (b) he has yet to be allowed even consular contact. Are these things still true? If so, it seems like (b) should be played up in the press. Our government raised quite a stink a few months ago when several of its servicepersons were held by the Chinese government without immediate consular contact. As for (a), someone mentioned a writ of habeas corpus. IANAL -- can someone who is comment on the usefulness of such a thing as a means of establishing contact with Dmitri? Is anyone at the EFF or elsewhere pursuing this avenue? While I'm all for marching on until the DMCA lies in rubble at our feet, I don't want to lose sight of the fact that a guy younger than I am has been entrusted to the tender mercies of federal custody, and it would probably do him a great deal of good to know that there's still a larger world out there that cares about him and wants to get him out. Dan From marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca Tue Jul 24 09:50:31 2001 From: marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca (Marvin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thank You All! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Derek Balling wrote: > >It's one thing for the EFF to choose not to participate in protests, and > >another thing entirely to try to "call the protests off." > > ... and still another for them afterwards to pretend that the EFF and > the protestors were part of some unified "team" or "force", when they > were, in fact, two disparate forces fighting towards a common goal. I am sure you are being over sensitive here. There is enough margin for interpretation here that their statement is perfectly justified -- even if only in the "de facto" sense. You can take a very narrow look at it in one way and it makes sense what you say; but you can also take a very narrow look at it in another way, and your comment appears merely divisive. I say let EFF take every bit of credit it can, and let every one else take the credit they deserve too. It's not a scarce resource -- there is plenty to go around. It has been an inspiring effort all around, so far. Austin Hook Calgary From noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to Tue Jul 24 09:51:24 2001 From: noise at noisebox.cypherpunks.to (robyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Standard In-Reply-To: <20010723003747.E31725@zork.net> Message-ID: http://biz.yahoo.com/st/010724/28188.html Media Grok: Amazon to Investors: Look! It's Elvis! By Jen Muehlbauer What does Amazon have to do get everyone's mind off its earnings results? Hire a brass band? Set off fireworks? Bust Dmitry Sklyarov out of jail? ... =) From shag-sklyarov at booyaka.com Tue Jul 24 09:53:39 2001 From: shag-sklyarov at booyaka.com (Paul Walmsley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Denver protest update (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Paul Walmsley wrote: > About fifteen of us protested Dmitry's arrest and the DMCA in front of the > Byron G. White Federal Courthouse from noon to 2 PM today. It was great ^^^^^ err ... yesterday ... - Paul From salgak at speakeasy.net Tue Jul 24 10:01:00 2001 From: salgak at speakeasy.net (Keith A. Glass) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller Message-ID: <200107241701.KAA03884@webmail.speakeasy.net> > ------------ Original Message ----------- > From: Bob La Quey > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:10:37 -0700 > > There is a sudden complication. Mueller has just been diagnosed with > prostrate cancer. This makes him a very sympathetic character for old > men (like senators and congressmen). I know, I am 60, and have a brother > 77 dieing from prostrate cancer. I assume you are much younger so such > a calculation would not be part of your routines, but believe me it > could well be part of a 50-70 year old senators. Mueller is prognosticated > to survive the cancer treatment, so this makes him a hero. Plus he may > get a delay in having his confirmation hearings, which could throw off > the timing. So, we're to consider a mostly manageable disease as tradeoff for separating a young father from his wife and children ??? Sorry. Dmitry's case shakes the very foundations of what America is SUPPOSED to be about. I think the protests need to be aimed directly at Mueller and his office. If the FBI wants to get rid of its' reputation for trampling on the Bill of Rights, releasing Dmitry would be an excellent first step. . . . > The other place for us to look is the DOJ, which really holds the > Dmitry cards now. Where is an effective place there to apply pressure? The entire DOJ office in the Bay Area, and their "Cyber Task Force" in particular seem to be appropriate foci for protest. . . From krw5 at qwest.net Tue Jul 24 10:01:09 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interesting that NPR... Message-ID: <01072410010902.12909@stumpy> ...is choosing to report China's implicitly unjust conviction of a "US-based Chinese academic," but not the U.S. prosecution of a Russian academic. Anyone have a direct line to the press to correct this not-so-little oversight? roger From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Jul 24 10:04:17 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] US Attorney, CA In-Reply-To: ; from pmasloch@earthlink.net on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 12:39:33PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010724100417.N14917@zork.net> Peter writes: > Central District: > John S. Gordon, United States Attorney > 1200 U.S. Cthse., 312 N. Spring St., Los Angeles 90012 > PHONE FAX (213) 894-2434 (213) 894-0141 > > Eastern District: > John K. Vincent, United States Attorney > 501 "I" Street, Suite 10-100, Sacramento 95814-2322 > PHONE FAX (916) 554-2700 (916) 554-2900 > > Northern District: > Robert S. Mueller, III, United States Attorney > 450 Golden Gate Ave., Box 36055, San Francisco 94102 > PHONE FAX (415) 436-7200 (415) 436-7234 > > Southern District: > Patrick O'Toole, United States Attorney > 880 Front St., Room 6293, San Diego 92101-8893 > PHONE FAX (619) 557-5610 (619) 557-5782 It should be noted, in case anyone is confused, that the U.S. Attorneys for the Central, Eastern, and Southern Districts of California have _no control_ over this case. If you wanted write to them, you could perhaps tell them why prosecuting hypothetical people for similar things is a problem, but they won't be able to free Dmitry Sklyarov. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From abuch at math.mit.edu Tue Jul 24 09:40:45 2001 From: abuch at math.mit.edu (Anders S. Buch) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boycott Adobe mission complete??? Message-ID: Dear organizers of "Boycott Adobe", While I agree that the time to advocate boycotting Adobe is over, I worry that your web site now gives the message that everything is good and all problems are solved. This is not true; Sklyarov is STILL in prison and the DMCA has NOT been overturned!! I urge you to mention this at the end of your "mission complete" statement, and provide a link to http://www.freesklyarov.org/ there. Thanks for your great work in creating this movement! Sincerely, Anders Buch From dredd at megacity.org Tue Jul 24 10:09:14 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interesting that NPR... In-Reply-To: <01072410010902.12909@stumpy> References: <01072410010902.12909@stumpy> Message-ID: At 10:01 AM -0700 7/24/01, Roger Kramer wrote: >...is choosing to report China's implicitly unjust conviction of a "US-based >Chinese academic," but not the U.S. prosecution of a Russian academic. Anyone >have a direct line to the press to correct this not-so-little oversight? Not that it is important to your point, but Sklyarov is NOT an academic in any sense of the word. He is a businessman or programmer, depending on your perspective. He is definitely "private sector" though. D -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca Tue Jul 24 10:10:38 2001 From: tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Free Sklyarov T-Shirts In-Reply-To: <01072406100600.22232@frankie> Message-ID: It could help educate the general public/spread the word if we have some T-Shirts with one of the common slogan that have been used in the protests and on the list. I suggest that the slogan on the T-Shirt be general enough so that we can still use it after Dima (hopefully in the near future) is freed. One possiblity is to have a global fund-raising t-shirt supplier. But this will contribute to the cost of the t-shirt through shipping costs. An alternative is to have local protest organizers take advanced orders (to ensure they don't lose a lot of money) and offer shipments to cities that don't have organizers. Regards, TAA ----------------------------------------------------- Tony Abou-Assaleh Graduate Student, Department of Computer Science University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, Canada, N2L 3G1 Office: DC2503 Phone: (519) 888-4567 Ext. 3399 Email: taa@acm.org -----------------------[THE END]--------------------- From krw5 at qwest.net Tue Jul 24 10:15:56 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interesting that NPR... In-Reply-To: References: <01072410010902.12909@stumpy> Message-ID: <01072410155603.12909@stumpy> On Tuesday 24 July 2001 10:09, Derek Balling wrote: > At 10:01 AM -0700 7/24/01, Roger Kramer wrote: > >...is choosing to report China's implicitly unjust conviction of a > > "US-based Chinese academic," but not the U.S. prosecution of a Russian > > academic. Anyone have a direct line to the press to correct this > > not-so-little oversight? > > Not that it is important to your point, but Sklyarov is NOT an > academic in any sense of the word. He is a businessman or programmer, > depending on your perspective. He is definitely "private sector" > though. > > D I know. I'm guilty of a little "spin" of my own there... roger From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Tue Jul 24 10:25:23 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interesting that NPR... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Derek Balling wrote: > Not that it is important to your point, but Sklyarov is NOT an > academic in any sense of the word. He is a businessman or programmer, > depending on your perspective. He is definitely "private sector" > though. Eh? Sklyarov is a grad student, who's doing his dissertation on this stuff. Just because you get a job doesn't mean you're not an academic. Students need to eat! =S From rms at privacyfoundation.org Tue Jul 24 10:28:37 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's Status In-Reply-To: <20010724094330.G3122@area.com> Message-ID: <00ef01c11466$14024f80$6501a8c0@tiac.net> On Sunday, my understanding is that he was still in a Las Vegas jail. Richard -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net] On Behalf Of Dan Martinez Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 12:44 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's Status So, last I heard, (a) no one knows exactly where Dmitry is, and (b) he has yet to be allowed even consular contact. Are these things still true? If so, it seems like (b) should be played up in the press. Our government raised quite a stink a few months ago when several of its servicepersons were held by the Chinese government without immediate consular contact. As for (a), someone mentioned a writ of habeas corpus. IANAL -- can someone who is comment on the usefulness of such a thing as a means of establishing contact with Dmitri? Is anyone at the EFF or elsewhere pursuing this avenue? While I'm all for marching on until the DMCA lies in rubble at our feet, I don't want to lose sight of the fact that a guy younger than I am has been entrusted to the tender mercies of federal custody, and it would probably do him a great deal of good to know that there's still a larger world out there that cares about him and wants to get him out. Dan _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca Tue Jul 24 10:41:18 2001 From: marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca (Marvin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Better crypto for eBooks? In-Reply-To: <200107241506.KAA16843@og1.olagrande.net> Message-ID: Perhaps I am not imaginative enough, but if it's on my own general purpose computer, I can't see how any eBook kind of coding could prevent the use of generalized tools evolving to rip the contents right off the screen it is being viewed on. Maybe, some interactive media could be devised that doesn't always have the same response, but how could an passive eBook fail to be vulnerable -- not even to specialized hacks, but just to generalized screen capture tools? The only hope for even temporary copy protection is a continuous change in the methodology of obfuscating the source. It seems to me that eBook publishers should plan, in the long run, to forget about using the FBI to enforce copy protection and use them only to enforce significant violations of copyright after the fact. And in as much as that latter is becoming impossible, realize that their model for making money is impossible without results that are destructive for society. Acceptable methods are: creating a sense of honor and pride in having an authorized copy. Add to that the sending out of some physical token of thanks (sticker, badge, a "thank you" coin, or tiny hologram) from the author and publisher for paying the license. A cryptographically signed jpeg of the author expressing personal thanks to that particular subscriber would also work. However it happens, copy protection by treating the customer as a would be criminal will only create endless turmoil and resentment. You'll need more and more Draconian laws to keep the method alive. Treat the customer with respect, esteem, and as the hero without which artistic creativity would have no audience -- that is the only future for eBooks. Your dream of how crypto can work is flawed, because you are only trying to use it to enforce old paradigms. The new technology has it's own social implications. Just like you can't analyze quantum mechanics with classical principles, old view points just have to really change; and you can't legislate your way back to the past. Austin Hook Calgary On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 noring@olagrande.net wrote: > [I just made the following post to The eBook Community > (ebook-community at YahooGroups) and thought it may be of > interest to some of you. Jon] > > > > The following piece posted to The eBook Community (TeBC) > is solely my personal opinion, and does not necessarily > reflect the opinions of my associates nor of my several > organizational affiliations. > > > ===== > > Regarding Monday's joint press release by Adobe and EFF, I > applaud Adobe for taking the moral and ethical high road and > withdrawing its support for the criminal complaint against > Dimitry Sklyarov. It is what I have come to expect from one > of the world's premier software companies. > > Let's pray that the Justice Department will follow the joint > recommendation, and drop all criminal complaints against > Sklyarov so he can return home to his wife and children in > Russia. > > It is now important for the many and various ebook industry > players to learn from these events, and to constructively > work together, despite our inherent differences, to build > the ebook future. Pointing fingers, and dwelling on past > events (other than to learn from them) is useless and > non-constructive, a waste of energy. > > >From these recent events, I see three lessons: > > First, the recognition that the DMCA is flawed in several > respects and needs to be substantially amended so as to > provide for the *real* needs of intellectual property > protection in the digital era, in conformance with a strict > civil-liberties view of the Constitution, especially a > robust affirmation of traditional Fair Use and reproduction > rights for legitimate personal and archival use, as well as > not impinging upon free inquiry and research. > > Such a balance is not only possible, but in my estimation > preferable for the long-term strength, stability and > integrity of the ebook industry. I am not against laws > *like* the DMCA when properly crafted and balanced -- I am > opposed to *the current* DMCA since it is neither, > unfortunately. > > Second, the recognition that in dealing with the protection > of intellectual property, the actual implementation using > DRM technologies (which may include anti-circumvention > technologies) must equally balance between the needs, wants > and most importantly expectations of the end-users with the > needs and wants of the owners of the intellectual property. > > This is good business sense since the end-users *are* our > customers, the source of the revenue stream to build our > ebook future. Until now, the momentum and focus in the ebook > industry has been overwhelmingly skewed in the direction of > content owners with total obliviousness to the end-users and > their expectations, as if they didn't matter (this skewed > view is reflected in several provisions of the present DMCA.) > I assert this lack of balance works against the long-term > interests of content owners (both publishers and authors) > to adequately profit from their content, as I've argued > before in more detail. Publishers especially need to > realize the importance of meeting the expectations of > the book reading public. > > Third, and again related to the above, the recognition > that the ebook publishing industry needs assurance that > their intellectual property is reasonably protected by > state-of-the-art technology. This assurance cannot be met > with "security by obscurity", nor with "security by Federal > Marshals". Thus it is important to ebook publishers that > free and independent, peer-reviewed and published scholarly > research and inquiry into digital security technologies be > encouraged and completely unencumbered by the onus of law > or license -- true academic freedom of the highest order. > > I believe ebook publishers fully understand the infancy of > present DRM technologies, and thus want to see the prime and > sole focus of technology providers, such as Adobe, in > improving the technology, using the findings of independent > research and even from the "blackhat" crackers as a yardstick > to measure progress and to learn from, and not to focus > efforts and energy in maintaining the obviously inadequate > status-quo via the force of law and government -- an > unintended result of the present DMCA. > > I also believe ebook publishers have no illusion that a > perfect DRM can be built which will reduce copyright > infringement to zero while meeting the needs, wants and > expectations of the end-user -- all they want is reasonable > protection that keeps honest people honest (or even > *rewards* people for being honest -- such business models > have yet to be explored) and keeps piracy mostly underground > through diligence and enforcement of well-written and > balanced laws that focus law-enforcement activity on actual > infringing activity, such as an amended DMCA I mention above. > > > I offer these opinions for constructive reasons. Certainly > many in the various sectors of the ebook industry (the > "stakeholders") will disagree with one or more of the views > expressed above. That's expected, but let's focus on a > constructive dialogue -- I do believe that with a community > effort, possibly as part of an organization dedicated to > effecting that dialogue which includes the *full* spectrum > of stakeholder interests (from the civil libertarians to the > traditional content owners), we will be able to come to a > common and balanced consensus, with a clear vision for the > path we should take, both business-wise and in the legal > arena. > > At this moment in time, we do not have this clear vision nor > a consensus. Regarding consensus, if Adobe and EFF can come > to one in only a few hours under a pressure-cooker situation, > separated by a quite wide chasm, there is great hope that > all the various stakeholders can do likewise. > > Jon Noring > > TeBC Administrator > Chairman and co-founder of Windspun Inc. > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Jul 24 10:39:43 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. 10:00am In-Reply-To: <003101c11429$78f19f00$0200a8c0@jwin> References: <003101c11429$78f19f00$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: <873d7mgra8.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "r" == roylo writes: r> I'm planning to hold a protest at U.S. Attorney for the r> Northern District of California office in San Jose at 10:00am r> this Sat. 1) Is the office open on Saturday? 2) Is anyone in downtown San Jose on Saturday? 3) Isn't the main office of the USA up here in San Francisco? 4) How are you going to get any cameras so soon after Monday? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From jim at media.mit.edu Tue Jul 24 10:40:37 2001 From: jim at media.mit.edu (Jim Youll) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] apropos freesklyarov.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200107241739.NAA22162@dns1.newmediagroup.com> Just a quick note to thank people for their support of the site and to please be patient while we get our act together for Round 2. From sklyarov at lethe.com Tue Jul 24 10:47:35 2001 From: sklyarov at lethe.com (Kevin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WSJ Message-ID: <018001c11468$b9b3d7d0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> Does anyone know if this made it into the print edition? http://public.wsj.com/sn/y/SB995939881811401497.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010724/f7d08006/attachment.html From dredd at megacity.org Tue Jul 24 10:48:22 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interesting that NPR... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 1:25 PM -0400 7/24/01, Xcott Craver wrote: >On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Derek Balling wrote: > >> Not that it is important to your point, but Sklyarov is NOT an >> academic in any sense of the word. He is a businessman or programmer, >> depending on your perspective. He is definitely "private sector" >> though. > > Eh? Sklyarov is a grad student, who's doing his dissertation > on this stuff. > > Just because you get a job doesn't mean you're not an > academic. Students need to eat! > Generally speaking, though, the term "academic" (as a noun) is usually used to refer to people employed in higher education, not those who are "merely students". D -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From admin at seattle-chat.com Tue Jul 24 10:48:42 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Free Sklyarov T-Shirts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: How about "The DMCA:Go to jail, for exercising free speech". -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Tony Abou-Assaleh Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 10:11 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Free Sklyarov T-Shirts It could help educate the general public/spread the word if we have some T-Shirts with one of the common slogan that have been used in the protests and on the list. I suggest that the slogan on the T-Shirt be general enough so that we can still use it after Dima (hopefully in the near future) is freed. One possiblity is to have a global fund-raising t-shirt supplier. But this will contribute to the cost of the t-shirt through shipping costs. An alternative is to have local protest organizers take advanced orders (to ensure they don't lose a lot of money) and offer shipments to cities that don't have organizers. Regards, TAA ----------------------------------------------------- Tony Abou-Assaleh Graduate Student, Department of Computer Science University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, Canada, N2L 3G1 Office: DC2503 Phone: (519) 888-4567 Ext. 3399 Email: taa@acm.org -----------------------[THE END]--------------------- _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 10:50:02 2001 From: huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com (Huaiyu Zhu) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Implication for Adobe - what can be reversed? Message-ID: <20010724175002.14382.qmail@web10906.mail.yahoo.com> EFF says that Adobe did the right thing. Well, yes, but only in the sense of not continuing doing the wrong thing. The wrongs they have already done are still continuing. And there are more questions to be answered. It has been said many times before that Dmitry did not sell the product anywhere, even in Russia. Adobe just confirmed this. They withdraw because his employer Elcomsoft no longer sells the offending product. This raises some serious issues concerning the legality of the arrest: Was he arrested because he wrote a program in Russia? Or because his employer sells a product in Russia? At what management level should an employee be held responsible for a company's wrong doing? If Adobe did something wrong, should some of its upper management team go to jail? Elcomsoft stopped selling the product before Dmitry got arrested. Does Adobe consider it broke the law? If so, shouldn't they prosecute the company instead? How do they explain their dealings with the company long after they reported the alleged crime? Note that US courts not only allows suing foreign companies, but also allows suing even foreign governments. Was Dmitry arrested because he came to US to give a speech about a product his employer sells? If a company violates an IP law, should its marketing team go to jail? Or was he arrested because he came to US to give a speech about a program he wrote? What does this say about academic freedom and free speech? If none of the above is a crime, do they become a crime when put together? An alternative explanation, that he was arrested because his employer sells a product in US is too ridiculous to merit consideration. It is like if you work in a winery and some of the wine gets sold into a country that prohibits alcohol, and you tour that country and tell people about your work, and you get arrested. This kind of logic should not fit the US. The real reason is more likely to be that he revealed flaws in Adobe's products. The more I think about this, the more this whole thing looks like a big company bullying competitors and whistle blowers by threatening the personal freedom of their employees. Isn't this thuggish behavior exactly what FBI is supposed to be busting? No doubt many people within Adobe are now regretting their heavy handed tactics. But unless they actively reverse the damage they have already done to others, there is no reason the community should do the damage control for them. One small token of gesture they could show is to post bond for bail for Dmitry. This could be a good way to substantiate their claim that they are not involved in, and are in fact against, depriving of his personal freedom. Even putting aside all the legal issues, the reputation Adobe has acquired as covering up flaws in their products by threatening the personal freedom of whistle blowers should stick. People should avoid products of such companies even though they seem to make "great products" right now. There is no guarantee you will get an honest dealing in the future. As past examples have shown, any company invoking DMCA is likely to be motivated by having shoddy product to cover up or other underhanded business practices. The more users smell the stink of DMCA the less likely any company would want to touch it even with a ten feet pole. Too bad Adobe touched it and even "embraced" it. They made a bad business decision. How do they get rid of the stink and redeem themselves is their problem. But we can of course offer some good suggestions. Huaiyu Zhu __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From lblunk at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 11:00:32 2001 From: lblunk at yahoo.com (Larry Blunk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Better crypto for eBooks? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010724180032.35056.qmail@web10007.mail.yahoo.com> I think this is a point that bears emphasis. Namely, the PC is a totally inadequate tool for "copy protection". Too much has been made of Adobe's weak cryptography or choice of PDF as it's native format. At some point, the content must be decrypted and there are a myriad number of ways on the PC of getting at that content (including various screen capture/framebuffer grabbing techniques). If the book publishers want truly secure protections, they are going to have to abandon the notion of PC software based readers and focus their attention on dedicated ebook reader devices. They should not use the DMCA as a crutch to achieve that which is likely impossible -- namely, a truly secure PC software based reader. Here's a question for Adobe -- if they are such believers in strong piracy protections, why don't they use such mechanisms on their own software? Isn't a $300 software program more worthy of protection than a $15 Ebook? The reality is that software publishsers have attempted such schemes in the past, but they were almost always universally defeated. Moreover, they annoyed customers because they prevented making legitimate backups or moving software when upgrading their PC's. In the end, they pretty much abandoned such schemes. Even Microsoft readily admits there Windows XP registration scheme will likely be defeated and is only there to keep the honest customers honest. Can you imagine the book publishers saying the same thing about their ebook protections? So why do the book publishers ignore the history of the software industry? Do they really believe they can achieve what the software publishers themselves could never achieve? And most importantly, why is the DMCA protecting such schemes which have time-and-again shown that they are unworkable? --- Marvin wrote: > > Perhaps I am not imaginative enough, but if it's on my own general purpose > computer, I can't see how any eBook kind of coding could prevent the use > of generalized tools evolving to rip the contents right off the screen it > is being viewed on. Maybe, some interactive media could be devised that > doesn't always have the same response, but how could an passive eBook fail > to be vulnerable -- not even to specialized hacks, but just to generalized > screen capture tools? The only hope for even temporary copy protection is > a continuous change in the methodology of obfuscating the source. > > It seems to me that eBook publishers should plan, in the long run, to > forget about using the FBI to enforce copy protection and use them only to > enforce significant violations of copyright after the fact. And in as > much as that latter is becoming impossible, realize that their model for > making money is impossible without results that are destructive for > society. > > Acceptable methods are: creating a sense of honor and pride in having an > authorized copy. Add to that the sending out of some physical token of > thanks (sticker, badge, a "thank you" coin, or tiny hologram) from the > author and publisher for paying the license. A cryptographically signed > jpeg of the author expressing personal thanks to that particular > subscriber would also work. However it happens, copy protection by > treating the customer as a would be criminal will only create endless > turmoil and resentment. You'll need more and more Draconian laws to keep > the method alive. Treat the customer with respect, esteem, and as the > hero without which artistic creativity would have no audience -- that is > the only future for eBooks. Your dream of how crypto can work is flawed, > because you are only trying to use it to enforce old paradigms. The new > technology has it's own social implications. Just like you can't analyze > quantum mechanics with classical principles, old view points just have to > really change; and you can't legislate your way back to the past. > > Austin Hook > Calgary > > > > On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 noring@olagrande.net wrote: > > > [I just made the following post to The eBook Community > > (ebook-community at YahooGroups) and thought it may be of > > interest to some of you. Jon] > > > > > > > > The following piece posted to The eBook Community (TeBC) > > is solely my personal opinion, and does not necessarily > > reflect the opinions of my associates nor of my several > > organizational affiliations. > > > > > > ===== > > > > Regarding Monday's joint press release by Adobe and EFF, I > > applaud Adobe for taking the moral and ethical high road and > > withdrawing its support for the criminal complaint against > > Dimitry Sklyarov. It is what I have come to expect from one > > of the world's premier software companies. > > > > Let's pray that the Justice Department will follow the joint > > recommendation, and drop all criminal complaints against > > Sklyarov so he can return home to his wife and children in > > Russia. > > > > It is now important for the many and various ebook industry > > players to learn from these events, and to constructively > > work together, despite our inherent differences, to build > > the ebook future. Pointing fingers, and dwelling on past > > events (other than to learn from them) is useless and > > non-constructive, a waste of energy. > > > > >From these recent events, I see three lessons: > > > > First, the recognition that the DMCA is flawed in several > > respects and needs to be substantially amended so as to > > provide for the *real* needs of intellectual property > > protection in the digital era, in conformance with a strict > > civil-liberties view of the Constitution, especially a > > robust affirmation of traditional Fair Use and reproduction > > rights for legitimate personal and archival use, as well as > > not impinging upon free inquiry and research. > > > > Such a balance is not only possible, but in my estimation > > preferable for the long-term strength, stability and > > integrity of the ebook industry. I am not against laws > > *like* the DMCA when properly crafted and balanced -- I am > > opposed to *the current* DMCA since it is neither, > > unfortunately. > > > > Second, the recognition that in dealing with the protection > > of intellectual property, the actual implementation using > > DRM technologies (which may include anti-circumvention > > technologies) must equally balance between the needs, wants > > and most importantly expectations of the end-users with the > > needs and wants of the owners of the intellectual property. > > > > This is good business sense since the end-users *are* our > > customers, the source of the revenue stream to build our > > ebook future. Until now, the momentum and focus in the ebook > > industry has been overwhelmingly skewed in the direction of > > content owners with total obliviousness to the end-users and > > their expectations, as if they didn't matter (this skewed > > view is reflected in several provisions of the present DMCA.) > > I assert this lack of balance works against the long-term > > interests of content owners (both publishers and authors) > > to adequately profit from their content, as I've argued > > before in more detail. Publishers especially need to > > realize the importance of meeting the expectations of > > the book reading public. > > > > Third, and again related to the above, the recognition > > that the ebook publishing industry needs assurance that > > their intellectual property is reasonably protected by > > state-of-the-art technology. This assurance cannot be met > > with "security by obscurity", nor with "security by Federal > > Marshals". Thus it is important to ebook publishers that > > free and independent, peer-reviewed and published scholarly > > research and inquiry into digital security technologies be > > encouraged and completely unencumbered by the onus of law > > or license -- true academic freedom of the highest order. > > > > I believe ebook publishers fully understand the infancy of > > present DRM technologies, and thus want to see the prime and > > sole focus of technology providers, such as Adobe, in > > improving the technology, using the findings of independent > > research and even from the "blackhat" crackers as a yardstick > > to measure progress and to learn from, and not to focus > > efforts and energy in maintaining the obviously inadequate > > status-quo via the force of law and government -- an > > unintended result of the present DMCA. > > > > I also believe ebook publishers have no illusion that a > > perfect DRM can be built which will reduce copyright > > infringement to zero while meeting the needs, wants and > > expectations of the end-user -- all they want is reasonable > > protection that keeps honest people honest (or even > > *rewards* people for being honest -- such business models > > have yet to be explored) and keeps piracy mostly underground > > through diligence and enforcement of well-written and > > balanced laws that focus law-enforcement activity on actual > > infringing activity, such as an amended DMCA I mention above. > > > > > > I offer these opinions for constructive reasons. Certainly > > many in the various sectors of the ebook industry (the > > "stakeholders") will disagree with one or more of the views > > expressed above. That's expected, but let's focus on a > > constructive dialogue -- I do believe that with a community > > effort, possibly as part of an organization dedicated to > > effecting that dialogue which includes the *full* spectrum > > of stakeholder interests (from the civil libertarians to the > > traditional content owners), we will be able to come to a > > common and balanced consensus, with a clear vision for the > > path we should take, both business-wise and in the legal > > arena. > > > > At this moment in time, we do not have this clear vision nor > > a consensus. Regarding consensus, if Adobe and EFF can come > > to one in only a few hours under a pressure-cooker situation, > > separated by a quite wide chasm, there is great hope that > > all the various stakeholders can do likewise. > > > > Jon Noring > > > > TeBC Administrator > > Chairman and co-founder of Windspun Inc. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From salgak at speakeasy.net Tue Jul 24 11:00:00 2001 From: salgak at speakeasy.net (Keith A. Glass) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Posted this on Slashdot, but. . . Message-ID: <200107241800.LAA27018@webmail.speakeasy.net> It may be time to up the ante: As the Adobe Software is apparentely in violation of Russian Law, well..... So here it is on Slashdot: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=01/07/23/2315228&cid=84 **** So when will the Moscow Militia. . . (Score:2, Insightful) by Salgak1 (salgak@earthling.net) on 11:35 AM July 24th, 2001 EST (#84) (User #20136 Info) . . .arrest the employees of the Adobe Moscow office ??? After all, ADOBE is breaking Russian law. . . oops, nearest office is in Sweden. However, they DO have an agent in Russia: Russia AZ-Graphics Co. 24 Pravda Street, Office 706 Pressa Entrance Moscow 125865 Russia Tel: (+7) 095-257-45-23 Fax: (+7) 095-251-42-49 (taken from Adobe's European Support Page) Actually, I'm surprised that there HASN'T been a counter-arrest in Russia, or a uproar from the Duma. . . . ***** And a reply that may be most useful here. . . ***** Russian Slashdot readers... (Score:3, Insightful) by cyberdonny on 12:10 PM July 24th, 2001 EST (#176) (User #46462 Info) ... you know what you have to do. Walk to your friendly neighbourhood police office, and file a criminal complaint against AZ-Graphics Co. for trafficking in fraudulent fair-use locked software. If enough such complaints are received, the police has to act in one way or another. From eliab at spack.org Tue Jul 24 11:09:30 2001 From: eliab at spack.org (Eliab) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FBI Protest In-Reply-To: <0107240304.04BET00@lowerlights.com> Message-ID: > Tom, this is an excellent idea! Maybe all wearing signs saying things > like: > "I am a circumvention device." > or, > "Illegal to Discuss/Distribute", etc. > *grins* =} > oo0o0o0o, i want one! I'd be there if i could, but i'd gladly wear a shirt around my city and tell everyone why i wore it. From ilya at theIlya.com Tue Jul 24 11:10:24 2001 From: ilya at theIlya.com (Ilya Volynets) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Posted this on Slashdot, but. . . In-Reply-To: <200107241800.LAA27018@webmail.speakeasy.net> References: <200107241800.LAA27018@webmail.speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <0107241110240U.12942@gateway> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > Russian Slashdot readers... (Score:3, Insightful) > by cyberdonny on 12:10 PM July 24th, 2001 EST (#176) > (User #46462 Info) > ... you know what you have to do. Walk to your friendly neighbourhood > police office, and file a criminal complaint against AZ-Graphics Co. for > trafficking in fraudulent fair-use locked software. If enough such > complaints are received, the police has to act in one way or another. LOL! I am trying imagine myself coming to nearest militia office with such complaint... Sorry, my, usually rich, imagination fiails me misarabley here... At best I'd be shown to the door... Could end much worse, in fact. In other words: "Ne tron' govno, vonyat' ne budet", which can approximately translated to english as "Don't trouble trouble, untill the trouble troubles you" Another addition: as much as I'm sorry for Dmitry being in US jail, I can't wish for ANYONE to be in Russian version of it. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtduhIACgkQtKh84cA8u2lMNQCdHK4QFG41+EYdM0I84OeeAnR6 zmcAoMfNr4RkYq+5OXMm5RNZBKvqYbnX =vpR3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ilya at theIlya.com Tue Jul 24 11:12:42 2001 From: ilya at theIlya.com (Ilya Volynets) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FBI Protest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0107241112420V.12942@gateway> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 24 July 2001 11:09, Eliab wrote: > > Tom, this is an excellent idea! Maybe all wearing signs saying > > things like: > > "I am a circumvention device." > > or, > > "Illegal to Discuss/Distribute", etc. > > *grins* =} "Parental control and DMCA: it is illigal to produce children! They are circumvention devices!" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtdupwACgkQtKh84cA8u2nCRwCbB5pjyPWyWa9zV6AMow8B4LzD 0hYAn0zBhw+g122OHhaXE9U+5BdXn8h3 =pHkf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Tue Jul 24 11:16:06 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] sales not security Message-ID: Hi, To those of you who responded to Mr. Tony Underhill about his letter to boycottadobe.com, it appears that we changed his mind on the issue. Thanks for being helpful, rather than mailbombing the poor guy with 500 "you suck!" messages. I quote from his letter to me: === Interesting. With the advent of the Internet so much has changed. I have thought a lot about this and come to the understanding that this product that sklyarov developed does have legitimate uses. You cannot hold companies or invididuals accountable for misuse of their product. === and === If a crime has been committed, get the people who are committing the crimes not the ones supplying the tools. === =S From deke at fullnestaviary.com Tue Jul 24 10:18:35 2001 From: deke at fullnestaviary.com (Chris Kotrla) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interview Message-ID: I just watched the interview with Dmitry at http://www.feedroom.com/index.jsp?fr_story=ebdf5e74fbe7141ec78657bf063347072 e9748f6 and was wondering if there's any way to download a copy before the news station takes it down from their site. They seem to have taken some measures to keep the casual browser from downloading the clip. If anyone knows how to get around that, and is also not afraid of going to jail for telling me, I'd be curious to know. -Chris From tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca Tue Jul 24 11:18:29 2001 From: tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Posted this on Slashdot, but. . . In-Reply-To: <0107241110240U.12942@gateway> Message-ID: > Another addition: as much as I'm sorry for Dmitry being in US jail, I can't wish > for ANYONE to be in Russian version of it. :O) Aslo we should keep in mind that our goal is to free Dmitry, and punishing other innocent people (well, everyone is guilty of something) is not the right way to do it. TAA ----------------------------------------------------- Tony Abou-Assaleh Graduate Student, Department of Computer Science University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, Canada, N2L 3G1 Office: DC2503 Phone: (519) 888-4567 Ext. 3399 Email: taa@acm.org -----------------------[THE END]--------------------- On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Ilya Volynets wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > Russian Slashdot readers... (Score:3, Insightful) > > by cyberdonny on 12:10 PM July 24th, 2001 EST (#176) > > (User #46462 Info) > > ... you know what you have to do. Walk to your friendly neighbourhood > > police office, and file a criminal complaint against AZ-Graphics Co. for > > trafficking in fraudulent fair-use locked software. If enough such > > complaints are received, the police has to act in one way or another. > LOL! > I am trying imagine myself coming to nearest militia office with such complaint... > Sorry, my, usually rich, imagination fiails me misarabley here... At best > I'd be shown to the door... Could end much worse, in fact. In other > words: "Ne tron' govno, vonyat' ne budet", which can approximately > translated to english as "Don't trouble trouble, untill the trouble troubles you" > > Another addition: as much as I'm sorry for Dmitry being in US jail, I can't wish > for ANYONE to be in Russian version of it. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAjtduhIACgkQtKh84cA8u2lMNQCdHK4QFG41+EYdM0I84OeeAnR6 > zmcAoMfNr4RkYq+5OXMm5RNZBKvqYbnX > =vpR3 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From dfm at area.com Tue Jul 24 11:19:20 2001 From: dfm at area.com (Dan Martinez) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724090717.033916b0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com>; from robertl1@home.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 09:10:37AM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724090717.033916b0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <20010724111920.A668@area.com> Bob La Quey wrote: > Mark, normally I would be in complete agreement with you. Mueller > seems an obvious next point of attack. I brought the same thing up > on the us.slash.net#sklyarov IRC back when the list was dead. Then I > started to do a little background research. > > There is a sudden complication. Mueller has just been diagnosed with > prostrate cancer. This makes him a very sympathetic character for > old men (like senators and congressmen). I know, I am 60, and have a > brother 77 dieing from prostrate cancer. I assume you are much > younger so such a calculation would not be part of your routines, > but believe me it could well be part of a 50-70 year old senators. > Mueller is prognosticated to survive the cancer treatment, so this > makes him a hero. Plus he may get a delay in having his confirmation > hearings, which could throw off the timing. Your point is well taken, and my condolences on your brother's illness. However, I think it will be possible to bring effective pressure to bear upon Mueller without making him a martyr. He's being spun, after all, as "the guy who will clean up the FBI". We can play to that, and make it politically expedient for Mueller to do the right thing. If the public were to percieve Sklyarov's arrest as yet another instance of cowboy law enforcement by the "bad old FBI" -- a perception the FBI's own handling of the case to date does nothing to counter -- then Mueller would have the perfect opportunity to play White Knight, riding in to correct the excesses of his predecessors. Convenient for him and convenient for us. Especially since Sklyarov differs from the usual victims of excess FBI zeal by virtue of not being a white supremacist, child pornographer, or conspiracy theorist, making it politically palatable to let him go as a gesture of contrition by the New & Improved FBI. I think the goal would be to get an elected representative to ask probing questions about the Sklyarov case at Mueller's confirmation hearing. I'm not sure if there's a better way to do this than mail to one's own representatives. With luck, however, it won't come to that: > The other place for us to look is the DOJ, which really holds the > Dmitry cards now. Agreed. In an ideal world, this will all be resolved long before Congress has a chance to consider Mueller's appointment. So: how, when, and where do we bring pressure to bear on the DOJ? Dan From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Jul 24 11:19:18 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe dropping charges, US Pressing ahead In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87bsmafavt.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "LS" == Len Sassaman writes: LS> *And* it would be detrimental in the future. We'd be sending LS> the message that "if you screw up, it doesn't matter if you LS> back down, we'll beat you until you're dead or we're tired." That's absolutely true! We're trying to use behavioral psychology here to get these big dumb amoebae called corporations to do the right thing. If we give them the stick, and they respond correctly, and then we give them the stick again anyways, well... we're not going to train the amoeba very well. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Tue Jul 24 11:28:54 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] GIMP instead of Photoshop References: Message-ID: <3B5DBE66.2F1670F2@sheffield.ac.uk> My duties at work include some pattern recognition research. I was considering the purchase of Photoshop. After all this I do not want to but it anymore. I've just tried GIMP, it does everything what I need. I do not think I would have ever found it without the information on www.boycottadobe.com (which is removed now). Actually many terms of your discussion I simply cannot understand. I think if more people will try to use more simple words it will attract more non-programmers to the issue. There are lots of good people around but they just do not understand what's going on because it seems that you are living in another world. That's why general public tend to call 'hacker' everyone who knows that Microsoft is not the only one software company in the whole world. It's sad. Of course general public (me) is also lazy, that might be the major reason for their apathy. anton From rms at privacyfoundation.org Tue Jul 24 11:26:32 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interview In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <012401c1146e$2aba6020$6501a8c0@tiac.net> You need Streambox to save a streaming file on your local hard drive. However the product was removed from the market because of the DMCA. ;-) Richard -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net] On Behalf Of Chris Kotrla Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 1:19 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interview I just watched the interview with Dmitry at http://www.feedroom.com/index.jsp?fr_story=ebdf5e74fbe7141ec78657bf06334 7072 e9748f6 and was wondering if there's any way to download a copy before the news station takes it down from their site. They seem to have taken some measures to keep the casual browser from downloading the clip. If anyone knows how to get around that, and is also not afraid of going to jail for telling me, I'd be curious to know. -Chris _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From ilya at theIlya.com Tue Jul 24 11:30:10 2001 From: ilya at theIlya.com (Ilya Volynets) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Posted this on Slashdot, but. . . In-Reply-To: <8BE50F29464B6D4E95F24770000D73822A6DFE@vcompro-02.vcompro.com> References: <8BE50F29464B6D4E95F24770000D73822A6DFE@vcompro-02.vcompro.com> Message-ID: <0107241130100X.12942@gateway> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 24 July 2001 11:15, you wrote: > Oh, I don't know. . .I'd suggest sending the idiot who decided to start > this whole thing, > to a few weeks in a "strict regime" camp Beep.... Wrong answer! You can't fight evil with same evil. > Besides, isn't the law the law ? If American Law can be used against > Russian > programmers, then isn't it only fair to apply Russian Law to Americans > and/or > their agents ?? Law in Russia and Law in US are very different things. US (at least untill recently) was at least pretending to respect its own laws, while Russia never did. > And funny, I always thought "govno" was the functional equivalent of the > American-English "oh shit. . . " Right. Literal translation would be "Don't touch shit, and it ain't going to stink", but I chose equivalent saing, rather then lteral translation, taht's all > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ilya Volynets [mailto:ilya@theIlya.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 2:10 PM > To: Keith A. Glass; free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Posted this on Slashdot, but. . . > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > Russian Slashdot readers... (Score:3, Insightful) > > by cyberdonny on 12:10 PM July 24th, 2001 EST (#176) > > (User #46462 Info) > > ... you know what you have to do. Walk to your friendly neighbourhood > > police office, and file a criminal complaint against AZ-Graphics Co. > > for > > > trafficking in fraudulent fair-use locked software. If enough such > > complaints are received, the police has to act in one way or another. > > LOL! > I am trying imagine myself coming to nearest militia office with such > complaint... > Sorry, my, usually rich, imagination fiails me misarabley here... At > best > I'd be shown to the door... Could end much worse, in fact. In other > words: "Ne tron' govno, vonyat' ne budet", which can approximately > translated to english as "Don't trouble trouble, untill the trouble > troubles you" > > Another addition: as much as I'm sorry for Dmitry being in US jail, I > can't wish > for ANYONE to be in Russian version of it. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAjtduhIACgkQtKh84cA8u2lMNQCdHK4QFG41+EYdM0I84OeeAnR6 > zmcAoMfNr4RkYq+5OXMm5RNZBKvqYbnX > =vpR3 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtdvrUACgkQtKh84cA8u2m9dgCeK2cURKuHOuUuUNxhI58qEQFV kJwAoM+yTr1ieqj8KEDXBs4BqC9WvOXq =DPSP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From pmasloch at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 11:31:18 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller In-Reply-To: <20010724111920.A668@area.com> Message-ID: Does anybody know for sure that Mueller is in his Office and not at home because of Cancer treatment? Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org Bob La Quey wrote: > Mark, normally I would be in complete agreement with you. Mueller > seems an obvious next point of attack. I brought the same thing up > on the us.slash.net#sklyarov IRC back when the list was dead. Then I > started to do a little background research. > > There is a sudden complication. Mueller has just been diagnosed with > prostrate cancer. This makes him a very sympathetic character for > old men (like senators and congressmen). I know, I am 60, and have a > brother 77 dieing from prostrate cancer. I assume you are much > younger so such a calculation would not be part of your routines, > but believe me it could well be part of a 50-70 year old senators. > Mueller is prognosticated to survive the cancer treatment, so this > makes him a hero. Plus he may get a delay in having his confirmation > hearings, which could throw off the timing. Your point is well taken, and my condolences on your brother's illness. However, I think it will be possible to bring effective pressure to bear upon Mueller without making him a martyr. He's being spun, after all, as "the guy who will clean up the FBI". We can play to that, and make it politically expedient for Mueller to do the right thing. If the public were to percieve Sklyarov's arrest as yet another instance of cowboy law enforcement by the "bad old FBI" -- a perception the FBI's own handling of the case to date does nothing to counter -- then Mueller would have the perfect opportunity to play White Knight, riding in to correct the excesses of his predecessors. Convenient for him and convenient for us. Especially since Sklyarov differs from the usual victims of excess FBI zeal by virtue of not being a white supremacist, child pornographer, or conspiracy theorist, making it politically palatable to let him go as a gesture of contrition by the New & Improved FBI. I think the goal would be to get an elected representative to ask probing questions about the Sklyarov case at Mueller's confirmation hearing. I'm not sure if there's a better way to do this than mail to one's own representatives. With luck, however, it won't come to that: > The other place for us to look is the DOJ, which really holds the > Dmitry cards now. Agreed. In an ideal world, this will all be resolved long before Congress has a chance to consider Mueller's appointment. So: how, when, and where do we bring pressure to bear on the DOJ? Dan _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Jul 24 11:31:05 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interview In-Reply-To: ; from deke@fullnestaviary.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 12:18:35PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010724113105.Q14917@zork.net> Chris Kotrla writes: > I just watched the interview with Dmitry at > > http://www.feedroom.com/index.jsp?fr_story=ebdf5e74fbe7141ec78657bf063347072 > e9748f6 > > and was wondering if there's any way to download a copy before the news > station takes it down from their site. They seem to have taken some > measures to keep the casual browser from downloading the clip. If anyone > knows how to get around that, and is also not afraid of going to jail for > telling me, I'd be curious to know. Free Alex Telitsine! http://www.google.com/search?q=streambox+vcr -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From jeyk at home.com Tue Jul 24 11:28:53 2001 From: jeyk at home.com (Jey Kottalam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FBI Protest References: Message-ID: <00ae01c1146e$7e7290c0$862ef90a@private> > > > Tom, this is an excellent idea! Maybe all wearing signs saying things > > like: > > "I am a circumvention device." > > or, > > "Illegal to Discuss/Distribute", etc. > > *grins* =} > > > > oo0o0o0o, i want one! I'd be there if i could, but i'd gladly wear a shirt > around my city and tell everyone why i wore it. Here's copyleft's "I am a circumvention device" shirts: http://www.copyleft.net/item.phtml?&page=product_1175_front.phtml They're for DeCSS though... -Jey Kottalam From krw5 at qwest.net Tue Jul 24 11:33:38 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fwd: Interesting that NPR... Message-ID: <01072411333804.12909@stumpy> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Interesting that NPR... Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 10:01:09 -0700 From: Roger Kramer To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Cc: seattle-sklyarov@woozle.org ...is choosing to report China's implicitly unjust conviction of a "US-based Chinese academic," but not the U.S. prosecution of a Russian academic. Anyone have a direct line to the press to correct this not-so-little oversight? roger ------------------------------------------------------- From marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca Tue Jul 24 11:41:30 2001 From: marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca (Marvin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Better crypto for eBooks? In-Reply-To: <20010724180032.35056.qmail@web10007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Larry Blunk wrote: > So why do the book publishers ignore the history of the software > industry? Do they really believe they can achieve what the software > publishers themselves could never achieve? And most importantly, > why is the DMCA protecting such schemes which have time-and-again shown > that they are unworkable? So eBook publishers have been sold used, failed concepts by Adobe, under the guise of new technology, and their insistance that they still believe in the DMCA is part of a cover up by Adobe executives, not as a political point of view, but to save money so they still have at least one reason left not to get sued for making shoddy goods. Imagine if used car dealers could get a law passed that made it a crime to find out what the odometer reading really should be. Austin Hook Calgary From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Jul 24 11:35:28 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller In-Reply-To: <20010724111920.A668@area.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724090717.033916b0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> <20010724111920.A668@area.com> Message-ID: <87snfmdvkf.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "DM" == Dan Martinez writes: DM> Agreed. In an ideal world, this will all be resolved long DM> before Congress has a chance to consider Mueller's DM> appointment. So: how, when, and where do we bring pressure to DM> bear on the DOJ? One thing that's being mentioned fairly frequently in the press is John Ashcroft's new initiative against cyberterrorism, and how this will make it difficult to get the DoJ to back down. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From sklyarov at lethe.com Tue Jul 24 11:35:51 2001 From: sklyarov at lethe.com (Kevin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller Message-ID: <003901c1146f$7809fb50$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> I was doing some research last night to see if there might be a good angle to pressure Mueller due to his upcoming confirmation hearings. What I discovered was not encouraging. The legislative record lists three senators who spoke in favor of the DMCA when it was passed. John Ashcroft (now Attorney General), Patrick Leahy (now chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee) and Orin Hatch (now the ranking Republican on the Judiciary Committee.) I'll give you three guesses as to which committee will hold the confirmation hearings for the new FBI director. Free Dmitry you dumb son-of-a-bitch. - Joe Pesci, Lethal Weapon 2 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Martinez" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 11:19 AM > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller > > > > Bob La Quey wrote: > > > > > Mark, normally I would be in complete agreement with you. Mueller > > > seems an obvious next point of attack. I brought the same thing up > > > on the us.slash.net#sklyarov IRC back when the list was dead. Then I > > > started to do a little background research. > > > > > > There is a sudden complication. Mueller has just been diagnosed with > > > prostrate cancer. This makes him a very sympathetic character for > > > old men (like senators and congressmen). I know, I am 60, and have a > > > brother 77 dieing from prostrate cancer. I assume you are much > > > younger so such a calculation would not be part of your routines, > > > but believe me it could well be part of a 50-70 year old senators. > > > Mueller is prognosticated to survive the cancer treatment, so this > > > makes him a hero. Plus he may get a delay in having his confirmation > > > hearings, which could throw off the timing. > > > > Your point is well taken, and my condolences on your brother's > > illness. However, I think it will be possible to bring effective > > pressure to bear upon Mueller without making him a martyr. He's being > > spun, after all, as "the guy who will clean up the FBI". We can play > > to that, and make it politically expedient for Mueller to do the right > > thing. > > > > If the public were to percieve Sklyarov's arrest as yet another > > instance of cowboy law enforcement by the "bad old FBI" -- a > > perception the FBI's own handling of the case to date does nothing to > > counter -- then Mueller would have the perfect opportunity to play > > White Knight, riding in to correct the excesses of his predecessors. > > > > Convenient for him and convenient for us. Especially since Sklyarov > > differs from the usual victims of excess FBI zeal by virtue of not > > being a white supremacist, child pornographer, or conspiracy theorist, > > making it politically palatable to let him go as a gesture of > > contrition by the New & Improved FBI. > > > > I think the goal would be to get an elected representative to ask > > probing questions about the Sklyarov case at Mueller's confirmation > > hearing. I'm not sure if there's a better way to do this than mail to > > one's own representatives. > > > > With luck, however, it won't come to that: > > > > > The other place for us to look is the DOJ, which really holds the > > > Dmitry cards now. > > > > Agreed. In an ideal world, this will all be resolved long before > > Congress has a chance to consider Mueller's appointment. So: how, > > when, and where do we bring pressure to bear on the DOJ? > > > > Dan > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > From pmasloch at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 11:36:52 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] staying focused Message-ID: I think this are the things we should stay focused on for now: Where is Dmitry? Knows anybody for sure? Had Dimitry a chance to contact his embassy? Who is Dmitrys legal advisor? Did he have a chance to contact Dmitry? How can we find out? Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org From lblunk at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 11:42:50 2001 From: lblunk at yahoo.com (Larry Blunk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interview In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010724184250.51681.qmail@web10001.mail.yahoo.com> Well, if it's in real video format, there are still versions of Streambox Ripper floating around. For Windows Media streams, you can use ASFRecorder. If you only care about the audio portion, there's TotalRecorder (Linux has an equivalent called vsound). I'd include some links, but then I'd be trafficing in circumvention devices. Nevermind that the only "protection" on these streams are a few bits which are intended to tell the playback software not to allow copies. --- Chris Kotrla wrote: > I just watched the interview with Dmitry at > > http://www.feedroom.com/index.jsp?fr_story=ebdf5e74fbe7141ec78657bf063347072 > e9748f6 > > and was wondering if there's any way to download a copy before the news > station takes it down from their site. They seem to have taken some > measures to keep the casual browser from downloading the clip. If anyone > knows how to get around that, and is also not afraid of going to jail for > telling me, I'd be curious to know. > > -Chris > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From dfm at area.com Tue Jul 24 11:47:49 2001 From: dfm at area.com (Dan Martinez) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller In-Reply-To: <87snfmdvkf.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 11:35:28AM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724090717.033916b0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> <20010724111920.A668@area.com> <87snfmdvkf.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010724114749.C668@area.com> Klepht wrote: > One thing that's being mentioned fairly frequently in the press is John > Ashcroft's new initiative against cyberterrorism, and how > this will make it difficult to get the DoJ to back down. Yeah, I caught that. (Didn't 2600 try, unsucessfully, to get reporters into the press event where Ashcroft announced the new initiative, with the intention of asking him pointed questions about Sklyarov?) Do you suppose there's any point in trying to tell Ashcroft and his cohorts that their energies would be much better spent putting the fear of God into script kiddies than busting programmers like Sklyarov? -- Dan Martinez "I wish I could find some real crime to fight." dfm@area.com -- The Tick From admin at seattle-chat.com Tue Jul 24 11:51:48 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interview In-Reply-To: <20010724184250.51681.qmail@web10001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Nevermind the fact you can download ASFRecorder from download.com *hint* -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Larry Blunk Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 11:43 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Interview Well, if it's in real video format, there are still versions of Streambox Ripper floating around. For Windows Media streams, you can use ASFRecorder. If you only care about the audio portion, there's TotalRecorder (Linux has an equivalent called vsound). I'd include some links, but then I'd be trafficing in circumvention devices. Nevermind that the only "protection" on these streams are a few bits which are intended to tell the playback software not to allow copies. --- Chris Kotrla wrote: > I just watched the interview with Dmitry at > > http://www.feedroom.com/index.jsp?fr_story=ebdf5e74fbe7141ec78657bf063347072 > e9748f6 > > and was wondering if there's any way to download a copy before the news > station takes it down from their site. They seem to have taken some > measures to keep the casual browser from downloading the clip. If anyone > knows how to get around that, and is also not afraid of going to jail for > telling me, I'd be curious to know. > > -Chris > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From bhodi at bigfoot.com Tue Jul 24 12:00:18 2001 From: bhodi at bigfoot.com (Golden_Eternity) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: Free Sklyarov T-Shirts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Copyleft.net is currently selling a "Free Sklyarov" t-shirt with the 'no dmca' logo on the sleeve... Mine is in the mail, I think. http://www.copyleft.net/item.phtml?dynamic=1&referer=%2F&page=product_1267_f ront.phtml > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:10:38 -0400 (EDT) > From: Tony Abou-Assaleh > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: [free-sklyarov] Free Sklyarov T-Shirts > > It could help educate the general public/spread the word if we have some > T-Shirts with one of the common slogan that have been used in the protests > and on the list. I suggest that the slogan on the T-Shirt be general > enough so that we can still use it after Dima (hopefully in the near > future) is freed. > > One possiblity is to have a global fund-raising t-shirt supplier. But this > will contribute to the cost of the t-shirt through shipping costs. An > alternative is to have local protest organizers take advanced orders (to > ensure they don't lose a lot of money) and offer shipments to cities that > don't have organizers. > > Regards, > > TAA > > ----------------------------------------------------- > Tony Abou-Assaleh > Graduate Student, Department of Computer Science > University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, Canada, N2L 3G1 > Office: DC2503 > Phone: (519) 888-4567 Ext. 3399 > Email: taa@acm.org > -----------------------[THE END]--------------------- From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Tue Jul 24 11:58:09 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interesting that NPR... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Derek Balling wrote: > Generally speaking, though, the term "academic" (as a noun) is > usually used to refer to people employed in higher education, not > those who are "merely students". Ph.D. students usually _are_ employed in higher education. And many are only a mild conceptual shift (and 3 letters) away from professors themselves. They do the same research as professors and they often teach classes too. We may work internships or other jobs to add to the resume or make a sane salary for a few months out of the year. That shouldn't change one's status as a Ph.D. candidate, however. Speaking as a Ph.D. candidate myself, I would certainly call other Ph.D. candidates "academics." People rarely stay in school that long for other than academic reasons. > D -S From jono at microshaft.org Tue Jul 24 12:00:43 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Call for Open letters In-Reply-To: <01072410342303.20023@neo>; from jsheldon@rochester.rr.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 10:34:23AM -0400 References: <01072410342303.20023@neo> Message-ID: <20010724120043.E6516@networkcommand.com> I'm making a letters section on www.anti-dmca.org. This is so people will get first hand reading of other people's opinions and have some material to send if they so choose. If you would, please send letters I can post to anti-dmca@networkcommand.com Please also include whether you want your name on it or not. Or, just send it the exact why you want it on the site. Thanks, Jon On 24-Jul-2001, Jason Sheldon wrote: > Does anyone have a form letter written up and an email addresses to the > guilty parties(Ashcroft, Mueller...)? > > Keep up the good work everyone! > Jason > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Jul 24 12:03:41 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Jon Katz on Dmitry Message-ID: <87g0bmdu9e.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Jon Katz gives his take on Dmitry's arrest: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/07/23/2315228 ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Jul 24 12:06:39 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protesters Seek Release of Fnord Message-ID: <87bsmadu4g.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> "Despite the fact that the word 'hacker' didn't appear in the article, we'll still put it in the headline." http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/industry/07/24/hacker.reut/index.html This looks a lot like the AP wire story, but I figgered I'd throw it out here anyways. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From pmasloch at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 12:09:23 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] russian embassy Message-ID: I just have send a fax to the russian embassy in D.C., asking them if Dmitry had a chance of contacting them. I'm curious if they answer me :-))) Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org From tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca Tue Jul 24 12:08:37 2001 From: tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interesting that NPR... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > webster academic 1ac-a-dem-ic \,ak-e-'dem-ik\ n (1587) 1: a member of an institution of learning ... Students are normally considered members of the institution and they usually (always?) have representatives in the various committees. The term 'academic' is generally associated with anyone involved in higher education. TAA ----------------------------------------------------- Tony Abou-Assaleh Graduate Student, Department of Computer Science University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, Canada, N2L 3G1 Office: DC2503 Phone: (519) 888-4567 Ext. 3399 Email: taa@acm.org -----------------------[THE END]--------------------- On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Xcott Craver wrote: > On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Derek Balling wrote: > > > Generally speaking, though, the term "academic" (as a noun) is > > usually used to refer to people employed in higher education, not > > those who are "merely students". > > Ph.D. students usually _are_ employed in higher education. > And many are only a mild conceptual shift (and 3 letters) > away from professors themselves. They do the same research > as professors and they often teach classes too. > > We may work internships or other jobs to add to the resume > or make a sane salary for a few months out of the year. That > shouldn't change one's status as a Ph.D. candidate, however. > > Speaking as a Ph.D. candidate myself, I would certainly call > other Ph.D. candidates "academics." People rarely stay in > school that long for other than academic reasons. > > > D > -S > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From jono at microshaft.org Tue Jul 24 12:14:04 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA + Code Red In-Reply-To: ; from marvin@qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 10:41:18AM -0700 References: <200107241506.KAA16843@og1.olagrande.net> Message-ID: <20010724121404.I6516@networkcommand.com> ----------Forwarded Message ----------------- Subject: RE: [tm] code red worm (& DMCA) In-Reply-To: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tm@research.suspicious.org > Awesome point. I wonder if the code-red author could sue eEye for > circumventing it's copyright protection mechanisms? It would be worth the > legal fees just to prove the stupidity of this law. ========================================================= hmmm.... that would make an intersting legal defense, from this point forward, whenever a "hacker" is arrested for a worm or virus..... i'm sure no-one will raise their hand and volunteer to be a plaintiff in this [code-red] case, but if (when) someone is thrown (unwillingly) into the legal arena, for something similar, this would be a neat little counter-suit. i would guess that it would help greatly (not to mention what type of p.r. would be generated) if the worm were to declare itself a copyrighted work, and inform the would-be cracker that any attempt to "interfere with the intent of it's creator" will be a violation of the DMCA, and international treaty... then go on to say, "any person attempting to defeat the protection method used by this worm will be subject to prosecution and imprissonment." maybe point out in the notice that no legal exception is recognized for research or law-enforcement purposes. hmmm.... that'd even make a good worm even if that was the only payload.... (if someone runs with this idea, make sure the notice is approved by a team of legal experts, otherwise if it's reported in the press, they'll only mention the one thing that was not 100% legally accurate, and then have some MPAA laywer talk about the "mis-informed hackers don't understand the law") From zawadzki at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 12:16:26 2001 From: zawadzki at yahoo.com (mark zawadzki) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Irony and hypocrisy Message-ID: <20010724191626.74422.qmail@web9601.mail.yahoo.com> Chinese scholar gets 10 years for coping documents - and of course the US condemns. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010724/ts/china_sentence_dc_6.html Don't get me wrong. I detest both actions. Mark Zawadzki Eastern Pa. Director, Mid-Atlantic Chapter, Clan Cameron If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my shoulders.-- Hal Abelson In computer science, we stand on each other's feet. -- Brian K. Reed --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010724/c196a3a1/attachment.htm From jono at microshaft.org Tue Jul 24 12:19:54 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Your Genes and the DMCA Message-ID: <20010724121954.K6516@networkcommand.com> http://www.anti-dmca.org -------Forwarded Message ------------- Press Release For Immediate Release: July 24, 2001 ------------------------------------ NY - 26 Religious organizations today filed suit against the three largest genetic research corporations in a class action lawsuit. The complaint aims to halt these organization's research of the human genetic code. Other genetic research pursuits were not named in the suit. Bishop Write explained, "We believe these companies are reverse engineering the human genetic code for profit. While the benefits may be great, we cannot allow them to continue." This action, covered by the 1998 Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA), alleges the companies are knowingly engaging in the Circumvention of Protection systems and could use this information to make a clone. "Once this system is cracked, the information could be used to reproduce a copy of a human being through unnatural means," Bishop Write said. The organizations which include Monsanto, Perkin-Elmer and Genentec are seeking a review of the DMCA and asking for a stay of the injunction. "This law could seriously delay or stop our research efforts into the Human Genome. Drug discovery could be seriously impacted and our main concern is making people better," stated a spokesperson for Genentec. "Therefore, we are asking for further review. We aren't interested in making a copy or clone, we just want to know how. The law [DMCA] is very broad. Who do they claim the Copyright holder is for the Human Genenome? The law is very vague, and related to the World Intellectual Property Organization. We are a US Corporation and feel we should not be controlled by the WIPO. You would think with all the anti-globalization protests around the world the US government would get the picture. " But the Religious organizations were unmoved: "Hitler was attempting to create a super-race. At that time they didn't have they the technical means to sequence genes, so he was going about it the old fashioned way using nature. Well, we didn't like it then and we don't like it now," the Bishop stated. In a separate case filed by the religious community, they also name numerous genetic companies asking for release of documents containing the first pieces of the decyphered genetic code. "All along they've been telling people its just ATGC, a couple nucleic acids. Did they really think we didn't know that was encryption? Well we know about the message and we are asking that they release it." The Bishop continued: "This whole time SETI has been looking into the stars for some communication, well we knew all along. Your genetic code is the communication. The Churches have need of that data and we will sue to get it." ================================================================ http://www.anti-dmca.org I'm Pro-Thought: Keep your laws off my mind! From pablos at kadrevis.com Tue Jul 24 12:42:45 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another 'idiot' needs some perspective... Message-ID: <1505502.995978565@[10.0.1.220]> Somebody want to reply to this black hole of clues... ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 12:20 PM -0700 From: Diane Markcity To: "nicehair@boycottadobe.com" Subject: Unbelievable that anyone can even think let alone sponsor a site that promotes the idea it is ethical and legal behavior to hack or break copyright protected codes of an individual or company. "HE BROKE THE LAW"folks and if he is intelligent enough to hack corp. secrets he is smart enough to know he was breaking the law of the land. This same individual would be outraged if someone broke into his home and stole his TV set yet he sees nothing wrong with stealing from a corporation and apparently you don't either. Get some perspective you idiots and try to do something that promotes responsibility instead of defending lame brained cyber hacknicks. ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From esper at sherohman.org Tue Jul 24 12:51:46 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Better crypto for eBooks? In-Reply-To: ; from marvin@qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 10:41:18AM -0700 References: <200107241506.KAA16843@og1.olagrande.net> Message-ID: <20010724145145.M31377@sherohman.org> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 10:41:18AM -0700, Marvin wrote: > Perhaps I am not imaginative enough, but if it's on my own general purpose > computer, I can't see how any eBook kind of coding could prevent the use > of generalized tools evolving to rip the contents right off the screen it > is being viewed on. Microsoft is working on something called "secure audio path" which is designed to do just that. The basic concept is that an encrypted audio file is read off your hard drive by an S.A.P.-compliant piece of software. The application refuses to send the (still encrypted) data to any driver that it can't verify as also being S.A.P.-compliant. The driver then passes it off (potentially) to other drivers until the audio goes out the USB port and arrives, still encrypted, at a set of compliant speakers which finally decrypt the audio and convert it to sound. The key point is that no piece of this system will give any data to any program or device that can't cryptographically prove that it will agree to observe all restrictions placed on that data by its publisher. Setting up something similar for video would not be very difficult once the audio version is fully (dys)functional. -- With the arrest of Dimitry Sklyarov it has become apparent that it is not safe for non US software engineers to visit the United States. - Alan Cox "To prevent unauthorized reading..." - Adobe eBook reader license From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Jul 24 12:54:12 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thank You All! In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010723202513.027417b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010723202513.027417b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <87elr6cdcr.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "RG" == Robin Gross writes: RG> Now the DOJ and Robert Mueller must be convinced its not in RG> their best interests to pursue this prosecution. Ah, yeah. So, Robin, what are the next steps for Adobe and the EFF? Is the EFF guiding Adobe through whatever formal processes are necessary to retract its complaint, and request Dmitry's release? Are there three-way conversations going on between Adobe, the EFF, and the US Attorney? Is there a time-line? How can we activists coordinate our efforts with yours? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From raldi at research.netsol.com Tue Jul 24 12:59:18 2001 From: raldi at research.netsol.com (Mike Schiraldi) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Better crypto for eBooks? In-Reply-To: <20010724145145.M31377@sherohman.org>; from esper@sherohman.org on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 02:51:46PM -0500 References: <200107241506.KAA16843@og1.olagrande.net> <20010724145145.M31377@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20010724155918.A23173@research.netsol.com> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 02:51:46PM -0500, Dave Sherohman wrote: > The application refuses to send the (still encrypted) data to any driver > that it can't verify as also being S.A.P.-compliant. If the audio is still encrypted, why does the driver care who it passes it to, since only the speakers can presumably decrypt it? -- Mike Schiraldi Verisign Applied Research From ilya at theIlya.com Tue Jul 24 13:00:53 2001 From: ilya at theIlya.com (Ilya Volynets) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another one needs some perspective... In-Reply-To: <1505502.995978565@[10.0.1.220]> References: <1505502.995978565@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <0107241300530Z.12942@gateway> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > Date: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 12:20 PM -0700 > From: Diane Markcity > To: "nicehair@boycottadobe.com" > Subject: > > > Unbelievable that anyone can even think let alone sponsor a site that > promotes the idea it is ethical and legal behavior to hack or break > copyright protected codes of an individual or company. Please, before making statements like this, at least read the material listed and referenced by that site. At least part of it. That said, I will take some time to duplicate some of it here. > "HE BROKE THE LAW" That is one of most arguable parts. Dmitry Sklyarov din't do anyhing illegal in US. At least general public wasn't yet presented with any evidence of it. He didn't break any russian laws either. On the contrary, program he wrote makes publishers selling eBooks in russia legal. According to Russian law it is illegal to distribute any softeware or data, that cannot be duplicated by end-user for backup purposes. > folks and if he is intelligent enough to hack corp. secrets he is smart > enough to know he was breaking the law of the land. Dmitry Sklyarov didn't break into corporat secrets, unless of course you considrer knowingly selling piece of shit to general public and claiming it is a good product a corporate secret. Dimtry Sklyarov simply exposed weaknesses of the product. > This same individual > would be outraged if someone broke into his home and stole his TV set yet > he sees nothing wrong with stealing from a corporation and apparently you > don't either. Again, Dmitry Sklyarov didn't steal anything (unless you can prove otherwise) from anyone. Quite opposite, everyone who knows him personally, describes him as law-abiding, intelligent individual. Only thing he did, was to expose drastic weaknesses in security system, provided by big corporation at very high price to it's customers. From this perspective the corporation is the one who has to be under law enforcemnt supervision, and I'm not going to be surprised with class action suit from publishers against Adobe in the nearest future. > Get some perspective you idiots and try to do something that promotes > responsibility instead of defending lame brained cyber hacknicks. Of course insulting is an easy way to pose your argument as strong one :) I'm not going to comment any further on your last statement. I just want to add, that the whole law that lead to this situation is flawed, and I want to sudgest you to read more about it on the web. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtd0/gACgkQtKh84cA8u2lK7ACfd1tiRbh++PLvWvfASc1cY01C awIAn3ji6s5RaK2LUs1rZD/KLD8TIRfU =+CHy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ilya at theIlya.com Tue Jul 24 13:03:14 2001 From: ilya at theIlya.com (Ilya Volynets) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Better crypto for eBooks? In-Reply-To: <20010724155918.A23173@research.netsol.com> References: <200107241506.KAA16843@og1.olagrande.net> <20010724145145.M31377@sherohman.org> <20010724155918.A23173@research.netsol.com> Message-ID: <01072413031410.12942@gateway> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 24 July 2001 12:59, you wrote: > On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 02:51:46PM -0500, Dave Sherohman wrote: > > The application refuses to send the (still encrypted) data to any driver > > that it can't verify as also being S.A.P.-compliant. > > If the audio is still encrypted, why does the driver care who it passes it > to, since only the speakers can presumably decrypt it? nad placing a nice microphone in front of speakers totally kills this scheme :) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtd1IUACgkQtKh84cA8u2lZ+wCcDVefTk8XoTckJ1APxthhoS// 9sEAnR8ZoPlqdeI6crFrndzha770c/R1 =/lW7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From karl at karl.com Tue Jul 24 13:05:12 2001 From: karl at karl.com (Karl J. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller References: <003901c1146f$7809fb50$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> Message-ID: <3B5DD4F8.2090700@karl.com> Kevin wrote: >I was doing some research last night to see if there might be a good angle >to pressure Mueller due to his upcoming confirmation hearings. What I >discovered was not encouraging. The legislative record lists three senators >who spoke in favor of the DMCA when it was passed. John Ashcroft (now >Attorney General), Patrick Leahy (now chairman of the Senate Judiciary >Committee) and Orin Hatch (now the ranking Republican on the Judiciary >Committee.) > Hatch had some decent comments in support of fair use while talking to the record companies in hearings. From krw5 at qwest.net Tue Jul 24 13:14:50 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Better crypto for eBooks? In-Reply-To: <20010724145145.M31377@sherohman.org> References: <200107241506.KAA16843@og1.olagrande.net> <20010724145145.M31377@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <01072413145001.13167@stumpy> On Tuesday 24 July 2001 12:51, you wrote: > On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 10:41:18AM -0700, Marvin wrote: > > Perhaps I am not imaginative enough, but if it's on my own general > > purpose computer, I can't see how any eBook kind of coding could prevent > > the use of generalized tools evolving to rip the contents right off the > > screen it is being viewed on. > > Microsoft is working on something called "secure audio path" which is > designed to do just that. The basic concept is that an encrypted audio > file is read off your hard drive by an S.A.P.-compliant piece of software. Marvin is absolutely right, and the corporate ignorance around this, as demonstrated my M$ 's efforts, is so endemic and profound it's hard to resist blaming the victims. Bruce has already covered this and anything else M$ or Adobe or name-your-company can dream up: "...any system where the device and the secrets within the device are under the control of different people has a fundamental security flaw." (Secrets and Lies) ...and, incidentally, the "screen scraping" Marvin mentioned itself has "legitimate" uses. roger From tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca Tue Jul 24 13:22:23 2001 From: tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Better crypto for eBooks? In-Reply-To: <01072413031410.12942@gateway> Message-ID: > > > The application refuses to send the (still encrypted) data to any driver > > > that it can't verify as also being S.A.P.-compliant. > > > > If the audio is still encrypted, why does the driver care who it passes it > > to, since only the speakers can presumably decrypt it? > nad placing a nice microphone in front of speakers totally kills this scheme > :) Do you realize that you have just exposed a weakness in the new copyright protection scheme? And that you may not manufacture/sell microphones because you'd be violating DMCA! I'm not sure how liable you are here, but this is a good analogy to pose some questions: * Are ideas like this one violate DMCA? * What if you use it? * What if someone else uses it, you're still the violator? * If I decide to send you some money for your idea, will you be liable them? * Or do you have to ask me for money first? etc. .. In short, it appears that individually, these actions are legal, but when they are put in a particular sequence they are not. A sequence of legitimate action may result in law violations. Sounds ridiculous. TAA ----------------------------------------------------- Tony Abou-Assaleh Graduate Student, Department of Computer Science University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, Canada, N2L 3G1 Office: DC2503 Phone: (519) 888-4567 Ext. 3399 Email: taa@acm.org -----------------------[THE END]--------------------- On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Ilya Volynets wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Tuesday 24 July 2001 12:59, you wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 02:51:46PM -0500, Dave Sherohman wrote: > > > The application refuses to send the (still encrypted) data to any driver > > > that it can't verify as also being S.A.P.-compliant. > > > > If the audio is still encrypted, why does the driver care who it passes it > > to, since only the speakers can presumably decrypt it? > nad placing a nice microphone in front of speakers totally kills this scheme > :) > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAjtd1IUACgkQtKh84cA8u2lZ+wCcDVefTk8XoTckJ1APxthhoS// > 9sEAnR8ZoPlqdeI6crFrndzha770c/R1 > =/lW7 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From mickeym at mindspring.com Tue Jul 24 13:21:39 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (mickey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WSJ References: <018001c11468$b9b3d7d0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> Message-ID: <3B5DD8D3.A1A09E0E@mindspring.com> It's one page B11, lower left corner. mickeym Kevin wrote: > Does anyone know if this made it into the print > edition?http://public.wsj.com/sn/y/SB995939881811401497.html From prostoalex at hotbox.ru Tue Jul 24 13:25:07 2001 From: prostoalex at hotbox.ru (Alexander Moskalyuk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] press coverage Message-ID: <200107242025.f6OKP7m19240@www1.mailru.com> Here's the latest from The Standard's Media Grok, a wrap-up of several stories. ___________________________________ Adobe Says, 'Let the Man Go Free' Suddenly, Adobe wants to be Dmitry Sklyarov's buddy. He's the Russian programmer who got thrown in jail last week for writing software that breaks the encryption on Adobe's eBook format. While "free Dmitry" became a rallying cry, and BoycottAdobe.com racked up Web hits, Adobe met with the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF). Both parties emerged with a smile and a PR coup, but no "get out of jail free" card. "In a stunning turn of events, Adobe abruptly bowed to public outcry and recommended the release of a Russian programmer who was arrested for writing code-breaking software," wrote Wired News' Declan McCullagh. That's "partly because the program he wrote that prompted the criminal complaint was no longer being sold by his employer," said Reuters. The disputed software "is no longer available in the United States, and from that perspective the DMCA worked," said Adobe in a statement, referring to the controversial Digital Millennium Copyright Act that got Sklyarov busted. So don't make Adobe an honorary member of the EFF just yet. The Register broke ranks with the anti-Adobe front to swipe at the EFF, too. "We look forward to working together with Adobe to secure Dmitry's immediate release," said the EFF's executive director. That's "subtly taking credit for what the company, undoubtedly, had fervently longed to do from the minute the story blew up in its face," wrote The Reg's Thomas C. Greene. BoycottAdobe.com declared, "This is a great day for democracy," but it was still a bad day for Dmitry Sklyarov. "Adobe is not a party to the case," said the San Francisco U.S. attorney's office, and the company can't call off prosecution (even if it got the government involved in the first place). "One Justice Department lawyer familiar with the case said it's common for the feds to prosecute someone even if a private party is no longer angry," said Wired. The EFF was more optimistic, saying, "It makes little sense for taxpayers to be funding this when even the original plaintiffs are calling for his release." Not quite, since the plaintiff has always been "United States of America." The legal eagles in San Francisco who actually control the case won't discuss their plans. So, to San Jose activists who are disappointed that the EFF canceled Monday's anti-Adobe protest, try taking your "Free Dmitry" signs about 50 miles north. - Jen Muehlbauer Release the Russian, Adobe Says http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45489,00.html Sklyarov Release in Fed's Hands http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45484,00.html Adobe backtracks, seeks release of Russian programmer (Reuters) http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/svfront/009903.h tm Adobe: Free the Russian programmer http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-6651535.html Adobe Folds! http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/20579.html Adobe Withdraws Support For Russian Programmer Prosecution http://www.newsbytes.com/news/01/168248.html We Win! http://www.boycottadobe.com/ ___________________________________________ ? ?????????, ????????? ???????? http://www.moskalyuk.com/ ICQ 44065387 From sklyarov at lethe.com Tue Jul 24 13:37:32 2001 From: sklyarov at lethe.com (Kevin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF? Message-ID: <009201c11480$77d212b0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> Has anyone heard anything from the EFF today? Will are you still there? Free Dmitry you dumb son-of-a-bitch. - Joe Pesci, Lethal Weapon 2 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010724/0e1ec51b/attachment.html From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Jul 24 13:40:35 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] press coverage In-Reply-To: <200107242025.f6OKP7m19240@www1.mailru.com> References: <200107242025.f6OKP7m19240@www1.mailru.com> Message-ID: <8766cicb7g.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "AM" == Alexander Moskalyuk writes: AM> So, to San Jose activists who are disappointed that the EFF AM> canceled Monday's anti-Adobe protest, try taking your "Free AM> Dmitry" signs about 50 miles north. - Jen Muehlbauer Apparently Muehlbauer is not aware -- despite all the reports to the contrary -- that protests in 19 cities went off, as planned, with a great effect on Monday's outcome. But the last advice is at least confirmational of what we all already know. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From morganw at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 13:42:07 2001 From: morganw at yahoo.com (Morgan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Orrin Hatch & Robert Mueller confirmation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010724204207.83520.qmail@web13408.mail.yahoo.com> Hatch might be worth writing some (snail mail) letters or telegrams to. He's lately been somewhat annoyed at how industry is messing up what could be a revolution in media accessibility for consumers. http://www.newsbytes.com/news/01/160336.html Hatch is definitely pro-capitalism (and pro "IP can be owned"), but he seems to be interested in providing choices for consumers. His remarks at the software competition (Bill Gates doing his version of the tobacco execs "nicotine is not addictive") and digital television hearings show his sympathy for the consumer. If an argument in favor of Dmitry's work is made in those terms, he might pay attention. It certainly worked on a Wells Fargo banker who was eating at a lunch place down the street from San Jose Adobe during the protest. I asked him what he'd do if his hard drive went south or he wanted to get a newer computer but his books and software were locked to the old machine or the keys were only on the dead drive (I know you can back up the keys, but it's harder to keep track of keys for e-delivered stuff than CD's with bright & shiny logos on them). He got it. I don't agree with Hatch on social issues, but on economic ones, not only do we agree, but he's smart enough to catch Gates and the head of the CEMA in deceptive/self-contradicting spin. http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Orrin_Hatch.htm#Technology 131 Russell SOB Washington DC 20510 202-224-6331 (fax) -M __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From mickeym at mindspring.com Tue Jul 24 13:42:17 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (mickey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Your Genes and the DMCA References: <20010724121954.K6516@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <3B5DDDA9.4326920C@mindspring.com> Here's one I did last year after Kaplan's 2600 ruling: "Condoms an Unauthorized Circumvention Device, Says God" http://www.segfault.org/story.phtml?mode=2&id=39ad0ae4-03358920 mickeym "Jon O ." wrote: > http://www.anti-dmca.org > > -------Forwarded Message ------------- > > Press Release > > For Immediate Release: July 24, 2001 > ------------------------------------ > > NY - 26 Religious organizations today filed suit against the > three largest genetic research corporations in a class action > lawsuit. The complaint aims to halt these organization's > research of the human genetic code. Other genetic research > pursuits were not named in the suit. > > Bishop Write explained, "We believe these companies are reverse > engineering the human genetic code for profit. While the > benefits may be great, we cannot allow them to continue." > > This action, covered by the 1998 Digital Millenium Copyright Act > (DMCA), alleges the companies are knowingly engaging in the > Circumvention of Protection systems and could use this > information to make a clone. > > "Once this system is cracked, the information could be used to > reproduce a copy of a human being through unnatural means," > Bishop Write said. > > The organizations which include Monsanto, Perkin-Elmer and > Genentec are seeking a review of the DMCA and asking for a > stay of the injunction. > > "This law could seriously delay or stop our research efforts > into the Human Genome. Drug discovery could be seriously impacted > and our main concern is making people better," stated a spokesperson > for Genentec. > > "Therefore, we are asking for further review. We aren't interested > in making a copy or clone, we just want to know how. The law [DMCA] > is very broad. Who do they claim the Copyright holder is for the > Human Genenome? The law is very vague, and related to the World > Intellectual Property Organization. We are a US Corporation and feel > we should not be controlled by the WIPO. You would think with all > the anti-globalization protests around the world the US government > would get the picture. " > > But the Religious organizations were unmoved: > "Hitler was attempting to create a super-race. At that time they > didn't have they the technical means to sequence genes, so he was > going about it the old fashioned way using nature. Well, we > didn't like it then and we don't like it now," the Bishop stated. > > In a separate case filed by the religious community, they also name > numerous genetic companies asking for release of documents containing > the first pieces of the decyphered genetic code. > > "All along they've been telling people its just ATGC, a couple nucleic > acids. Did they really think we didn't know that was encryption? > Well we know about the message and we are asking that they release > it." The Bishop continued: "This whole time SETI has been looking > into the stars for some communication, well we knew all along. Your > genetic code is the communication. The Churches have need of that > data and we will sue to get it." > > ================================================================ > http://www.anti-dmca.org > > I'm Pro-Thought: Keep your laws off my mind! > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From krw5 at qwest.net Tue Jul 24 13:41:27 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Is it illegal to create or possess locksmith tools? In-Reply-To: <1505502.995978565@[10.0.1.220]> References: <1505502.995978565@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <01072413412702.13167@stumpy> Mustering all my restraint... Dmitry created a tool. Every piece of software is a tool. Tools always have multiple uses. It must not be illegal to create tools! Dmitry's *company* may or may not be engaged in business with illegal commercial intent--that's a separate issue, but Dmitry is merely a tool maker. I hope in the future you'll at least attempt to familiarize yourself with some of the technical details of an issue before forming an opinion. Otherwise, thanks to citizens such as yourself, more of those who build the infrastructure you're happy to use, probably in blissful ignorance, may fall victim to the technological illiterati you elect and the corporate interests that buy them out. roger kramer On Tuesday 24 July 2001 12:42, <...> wrote: > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > Date: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 12:20 PM -0700 > From: Diane Markcity > To: "nicehair@boycottadobe.com" > Subject: > > > Unbelievable that anyone can even think let alone sponsor a site that > promotes the idea it is ethical and legal behavior to hack or break > copyright protected codes of an individual or company. "HE BROKE THE > LAW"folks and if he is intelligent enough to hack corp. secrets he is smart > enough to know he was breaking the law of the land. This same individual > would be outraged if someone broke into his home and stole his TV set yet > he sees nothing wrong with stealing from a corporation and apparently you > don't either. > Get some perspective you idiots and try to do something that promotes > responsibility instead of defending lame brained cyber hacknicks. > > ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From ng5354 at albany.edu Tue Jul 24 13:45:54 2001 From: ng5354 at albany.edu (Nick Giardina) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Albany NY? Message-ID: Is there anything set to happen in the Albany, NY area? And if not, would anyone else be interested? The press does tend to cover protests around here... one of the benefits of being in the state capital, I guess. -- Nick From thompson at exerscape.com Tue Jul 24 13:34:22 2001 From: thompson at exerscape.com (Chris Thompson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Salt Lake Protest Coverage In-Reply-To: <009201c11480$77d212b0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> Message-ID: Although we had a modest turnout, one of the local papers showed up to do a story. Can be found here: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,295013014,00.html? Also, a local news/talk radio station came out, but I haven't seen or heard about them running the story yet. From mickeym at mindspring.com Tue Jul 24 13:52:55 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (mickey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Is it illegal to create or possess locksmith tools? References: <1505502.995978565@[10.0.1.220]> <01072413412702.13167@stumpy> Message-ID: <3B5DE026.1E6DB1A8@mindspring.com> It is, of course, not illegal to own or sell a "prybar": Try these links to search results: Lots of places sell prybars: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=prybar+sales Locksmith tools are readily available without much public outcry: http://www.google.com/search?q=locksmith+tools And for those wanting to replicate keys: http://www.google.com/search?q=key+duplication When I have had key's copied, there were no questions asked. Why? Because possesion of a key means that I am "authorized." mickeym Roger Kramer wrote: > Mustering all my restraint... > > Dmitry created a tool. Every piece of software is a tool. Tools always have > multiple uses. It must not be illegal to create tools! Dmitry's *company* may > or may not be engaged in business with illegal commercial intent--that's a > separate issue, but Dmitry is merely a tool maker. > > I hope in the future you'll at least attempt to familiarize yourself with > some of the technical details of an issue before forming an opinion. > Otherwise, thanks to citizens such as yourself, more of those who build the > infrastructure you're happy to use, probably in blissful ignorance, may fall > victim to the technological illiterati you elect and the corporate interests > that buy them out. > > roger kramer > > On Tuesday 24 July 2001 12:42, <...> wrote: > > > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > Date: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 12:20 PM -0700 > > From: Diane Markcity > > To: "nicehair@boycottadobe.com" > > Subject: > > > > > > Unbelievable that anyone can even think let alone sponsor a site that > > promotes the idea it is ethical and legal behavior to hack or break > > copyright protected codes of an individual or company. "HE BROKE THE > > LAW"folks and if he is intelligent enough to hack corp. secrets he is smart > > enough to know he was breaking the law of the land. This same individual > > would be outraged if someone broke into his home and stole his TV set yet > > he sees nothing wrong with stealing from a corporation and apparently you > > don't either. > > Get some perspective you idiots and try to do something that promotes > > responsibility instead of defending lame brained cyber hacknicks. > > > > ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Tue Jul 24 13:58:26 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] lost&found at San Jose protest Message-ID: Someone at the SJ protest left behind a sweater and a hat at the "Snake/turd" sculpture when we took off for ADBE hq. These were placed in my backpack (since I took off a minute after the rest of the crowd), and, of course, I forgot to announce their presence when we reconvened later. Anyway, email me if either of these items belongs to you. If you know someone who was at the protest but doesn't read this list, please forward this message to them. Thanks. -- -alexf From pablos at kadrevis.com Tue Jul 24 14:02:50 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] He's free.... (fwd) Message-ID: <1599172.995983370@[10.0.1.220]> Another guy who needs some pointers... ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 9:01 PM +0000 From: "dan@reed.nu" To: "circularfile@boycottadobe.com" Subject: He's free.... I don't get it. The way I read the news articles is that this guy found the loophole in Adobe's secure eBook program and the company he works for was selling the services to circumvent the flawed security. (<-read as 'steal') Isn't it wrong to steal? If I don't keep my doors locked at my house and a .357 magnum loaded and within reach, it's ok for someone to steal my things or the things of others that are in my home? Please direct me to some good reading so I can shake this ignorance. Dan Seattle -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From tom at lemuria.org Tue Jul 24 13:57:53 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another 'idiot' needs some perspective... In-Reply-To: <1505502.995978565@[10.0.1.220]>; from pablos@kadrevis.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 12:42:45PM -0700 References: <1505502.995978565@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <20010724225750.A16270@lemuria.org> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 12:42:45PM -0700, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: > Somebody want to reply to this black hole of clues... will try -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From admin at seattle-chat.com Tue Jul 24 14:03:15 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Your Genes and the DMCA In-Reply-To: <20010724121954.K6516@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: Now only if this were true. haha -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Jon O . Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 12:20 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Your Genes and the DMCA http://www.anti-dmca.org -------Forwarded Message ------------- Press Release For Immediate Release: July 24, 2001 ------------------------------------ NY - 26 Religious organizations today filed suit against the three largest genetic research corporations in a class action lawsuit. The complaint aims to halt these organization's research of the human genetic code. Other genetic research pursuits were not named in the suit. Bishop Write explained, "We believe these companies are reverse engineering the human genetic code for profit. While the benefits may be great, we cannot allow them to continue." This action, covered by the 1998 Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA), alleges the companies are knowingly engaging in the Circumvention of Protection systems and could use this information to make a clone. "Once this system is cracked, the information could be used to reproduce a copy of a human being through unnatural means," Bishop Write said. The organizations which include Monsanto, Perkin-Elmer and Genentec are seeking a review of the DMCA and asking for a stay of the injunction. "This law could seriously delay or stop our research efforts into the Human Genome. Drug discovery could be seriously impacted and our main concern is making people better," stated a spokesperson for Genentec. "Therefore, we are asking for further review. We aren't interested in making a copy or clone, we just want to know how. The law [DMCA] is very broad. Who do they claim the Copyright holder is for the Human Genenome? The law is very vague, and related to the World Intellectual Property Organization. We are a US Corporation and feel we should not be controlled by the WIPO. You would think with all the anti-globalization protests around the world the US government would get the picture. " But the Religious organizations were unmoved: "Hitler was attempting to create a super-race. At that time they didn't have they the technical means to sequence genes, so he was going about it the old fashioned way using nature. Well, we didn't like it then and we don't like it now," the Bishop stated. In a separate case filed by the religious community, they also name numerous genetic companies asking for release of documents containing the first pieces of the decyphered genetic code. "All along they've been telling people its just ATGC, a couple nucleic acids. Did they really think we didn't know that was encryption? Well we know about the message and we are asking that they release it." The Bishop continued: "This whole time SETI has been looking into the stars for some communication, well we knew all along. Your genetic code is the communication. The Churches have need of that data and we will sue to get it." ================================================================ http://www.anti-dmca.org I'm Pro-Thought: Keep your laws off my mind! _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From pablos at kadrevis.com Tue Jul 24 14:06:23 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] come on... (fwd) Message-ID: <1611960.995983583@[10.0.1.220]> Somebody please set this guy straight... ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 10:19 PM +0200 From: "johan j." To: "circularfile@boycottadobe.com" Subject: come on... ok, so i haven't read much about the case, but from what i've heard dmitry actually sold software that cracked the copyprotection in ebooks. it is illegal, and actions must be taken. right? // j ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From rsperberg at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 14:09:30 2001 From: rsperberg at yahoo.com (Roger Sperberg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Isn't AEBPR legal anyway? Message-ID: A column that argues that AEBPR may be legal has gone up at eBookWeb Is AEBPR a Legal Program? Thanks to a little-known exemption to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, suggests columnist Roger Sperberg, it may actually be legal to use tools like ElcomSoft's Advanced eBook Processor to circumvent the copy protection on eBooks -- at least in cases where the original eBook software or source file is malfunctioning, damaged or obsolete. http://12.108.175.91/ebookweb/stories/storyReader$114 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010724/188f301e/attachment.htm From spider at sneakybastard.com Tue Jul 24 14:09:35 2001 From: spider at sneakybastard.com (Sonia Arana) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] come on... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <1611960.995983583@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: I'll write to him, too. On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: > Somebody please set this guy straight... > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > Date: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 10:19 PM +0200 > From: "johan j." > To: "circularfile@boycottadobe.com" > Subject: come on... > > ok, so i haven't read much about the case, but from what i've heard dmitry > actually sold software that cracked the copyprotection in ebooks. it is > illegal, and actions must be taken. right? > > // j > > > ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- > > > -- > Pablos Kadrevis > pablos@kadrevis.com > 415.420.3806 > www.shmoo.com/~pablos > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From spider at sneakybastard.com Tue Jul 24 14:10:01 2001 From: spider at sneakybastard.com (Sonia Arana) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] He's free.... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <1599172.995983370@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: I'll reply... On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: > Another guy who needs some pointers... > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > Date: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 9:01 PM +0000 > From: "dan@reed.nu" > To: "circularfile@boycottadobe.com" > Subject: He's free.... > > I don't get it. The way I read the news articles is that this guy found the > > loophole in Adobe's secure eBook program and the company he works for was > > selling the services to circumvent the flawed security. (<-read as 'steal') > > > > Isn't it wrong to steal? > > > > If I don't keep my doors locked at my house and a .357 magnum loaded and > within > > reach, it's ok for someone to steal my things or the things of others that > are > > in my home? > > > > Please direct me to some good reading so I can shake this ignorance. > > > > Dan > > Seattle > > From rabbi at quickie.net Tue Jul 24 14:12:58 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interesting that NPR... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Derek Balling wrote: > Not that it is important to your point, but Sklyarov is NOT an > academic in any sense of the word. He is a businessman or programmer, > depending on your perspective. He is definitely "private sector" > though. Oh? eBook security was his PhD thesis topic, if I understand correctly. (He was very close to obtaining the degree.) He is *clearly* an academic (though he isn't necessarily exclusively one.) From spider at sneakybastard.com Tue Jul 24 14:19:21 2001 From: spider at sneakybastard.com (Sonia Arana) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] He's free.... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <1599172.995983370@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: Hi Dan, All books have copywrite protection. If you copy them without permission, you are breaking the law. Adobe sells a product to authors of e-books claiming that it will protect their work from unauthorized copying. Dmitry showed that their product is quite primitive - anybody with a basic understanding of cryptography can break it. Dmitry came to the US to speak about these flaws. Ask yourself - if you bought a security system for your house, and someone spoke up about how easy it was to break into your house anyway, would you want him to go to jail? Or would you want the company that made the flawed security system to fix it? It is true that Dmitry's company makes a product that circuvments the encryption on ebooks - however, it is not sold as a circumvention device. It is sold to ebook owners who want to add features to their ebook, such as using text-to-speech readers, saving a copy for themselves, or highlighting important passages. The product must circumvent encryption to do so. Does this mean that people can make unauthorized copies with this tool? Probably. But think of all your household items that have legimate uses, and illegal uses. Furthermore, this product is not illegal in Russia. Why should we imprison people for what they legally do in their own countries? He is accused of importing the device, but he did not. Some people in the US have the tool, but it is not Dmitry who should be prosecuted because of this. Hope this helps. Sonia > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > Date: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 9:01 PM +0000 > From: "dan@reed.nu" > To: "circularfile@boycottadobe.com" > Subject: He's free.... > > I don't get it. The way I read the news articles is that this guy found the > > loophole in Adobe's secure eBook program and the company he works for was > > selling the services to circumvent the flawed security. (<-read as 'steal') > > > > Isn't it wrong to steal? > > > > If I don't keep my doors locked at my house and a .357 magnum loaded and > within > > reach, it's ok for someone to steal my things or the things of others that > are > > in my home? > > > > Please direct me to some good reading so I can shake this ignorance. > > > > Dan > > Seattle > > From tom at lemuria.org Tue Jul 24 14:14:32 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] He's free.... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <1599172.995983370@[10.0.1.220]>; from pablos@kadrevis.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 02:02:50PM -0700 References: <1599172.995983370@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <20010724231430.D16270@lemuria.org> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 02:02:50PM -0700, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: > Another guy who needs some pointers... at it. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From dfm at area.com Tue Jul 24 14:19:54 2001 From: dfm at area.com (Dan Martinez) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Orrin Hatch & Robert Mueller confirmation In-Reply-To: <20010724204207.83520.qmail@web13408.mail.yahoo.com>; from morganw@yahoo.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 01:42:07PM -0700 References: <20010724204207.83520.qmail@web13408.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010724141954.D668@area.com> Morgan wrote: > Hatch might be worth writing some (snail mail) letters or telegrams > to. He's lately been somewhat annoyed at how industry is messing up > what could be a revolution in media accessibility for consumers. > > http://www.newsbytes.com/news/01/160336.html > > Hatch is definitely pro-capitalism (and pro "IP can be owned"), but > he seems to be interested in providing choices for consumers. His > remarks at the software competition (Bill Gates doing his version of > the tobacco execs "nicotine is not addictive") and digital > television hearings show his sympathy for the consumer. > > If an argument in favor of Dmitry's work is made in those terms, he > might pay attention. It certainly worked on a Wells Fargo banker who > was eating at a lunch place down the street from San Jose Adobe > during the protest. I asked him what he'd do if his hard drive went > south or he wanted to get a newer computer but his books and > software were locked to the old machine or the keys were only on the > dead drive (I know you can back up the keys, but it's harder to keep > track of keys for e-delivered stuff than CD's with bright & shiny > logos on them). He got it. Hatch has been giving the recording industry a particularly tough time of late: he was asking the RIAA some pretty pointed questions during hearings on Napster a few months back. Apparently this is at least in part due to the fact that he's a recording artist himself: having dealt with the industry personally, he's a little less swayed by its teary-eyed claims that it's only acting in the best interest of artists. (If you're curious about his works, you can pay http://www.hatchmusic.com/ a visit.) Perhaps drawing an analogy to a CD that winds up being bound to a single player would be an effective way to illustrate the current state of eBooks, and why folks who do something about it aren't necessarily bad guys. (Those who think a content-control scheme that restrictive sounds patently absurd should remember the late, unlamented DivX, which was pretty much exactly that for DVDs. Even average consumers were sophisticated enough to get that, and they acted accordingly: they stayed away in droves.) Dan From sklyarov at lethe.com Tue Jul 24 14:20:12 2001 From: sklyarov at lethe.com (Kevin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller References: <003901c1146f$7809fb50$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> <3B5DD4F8.2090700@karl.com> Message-ID: <00c201c11486$6d1ced30$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> Okay, this might be good: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010724/tc/tech_microsoft_senate_dc_1.html Sen. Schumer is on the Judiciary Committee. Has he ever made any comments on the DMCA? Free Dmitry you dumb son-of-a-bitch. - Joe Pesci, Lethal Weapon 2 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karl J. Smith" To: "Kevin" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Robert Mueller > Kevin wrote: > > >I was doing some research last night to see if there might be a good angle > >to pressure Mueller due to his upcoming confirmation hearings. What I > >discovered was not encouraging. The legislative record lists three senators > >who spoke in favor of the DMCA when it was passed. John Ashcroft (now > >Attorney General), Patrick Leahy (now chairman of the Senate Judiciary > >Committee) and Orin Hatch (now the ranking Republican on the Judiciary > >Committee.) > > > > Hatch had some decent comments in support of fair use while talking to > the record companies in hearings. > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From crism at maden.org Tue Jul 24 14:29:01 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Form letter and email addresses? In-Reply-To: <01072410342303.20023@neo> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010724142730.02738020@mail.maden.org> At 07:34 24-07-2001, Jason Sheldon wrote: >Does anyone have a form letter written up and an email addresses to the >guilty parties(Ashcroft, Mueller...)? Don't write e-mail. It does get read (by a staffer), and a "yea" or "nay" recorded, but they also note that it was e-mail and consider that much less strongly than a snail letter or telephone call. E-mail takes a lot less time and effort to send, and they know that; if you really cared about the issue, you'd write or call. And avoid form letters when possible. Speaking points are good, but if they get scads of identical letters, they all count for less. -crism -- "You will find that the State is the kind of organization which, though it does big things badly, does small things badly too." - J.K. Galbraith === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From alansmitheee at hotmail.com Tue Jul 24 21:35:19 2001 From: alansmitheee at hotmail.com (Alan Smithee) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Where IS Dmitry?? Message-ID: Does anyone know of his whereabouts? Do we know which jail? Has he been arraigned? Is he going to appear in court? Shouldn't we be setting up vigils or something? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From sklyarov at lethe.com Tue Jul 24 14:38:11 2001 From: sklyarov at lethe.com (Kevin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Where IS Dmitry?? References: Message-ID: <00e101c11488$f067d950$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> Love your movies ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Smithee" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 9:35 PM Subject: [free-sklyarov] Where IS Dmitry?? > Does anyone know of his whereabouts? > > Do we know which jail? Has he been arraigned? Is he going to appear in > court? > > Shouldn't we be setting up vigils or something? > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From LGORKIN at mobius.com Tue Jul 24 14:42:27 2001 From: LGORKIN at mobius.com (Leonid Gorkin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Where IS Dmitry?? Message-ID: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F94@ryentes1.mobius.com> Good question. People, let's stay focused. What's going to happen next? Is there a deadline for prosecutor to announce that they will dismiss the case or pursue it? Can somebody from EFF explain? -----Original Message----- From: Alan Smithee [mailto:alansmitheee@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 5:35 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Where IS Dmitry?? Does anyone know of his whereabouts? Do we know which jail? Has he been arraigned? Is he going to appear in court? Shouldn't we be setting up vigils or something? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From roylo at sr2c.com Tue Jul 24 14:45:24 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. 10:00am References: <003101c11429$78f19f00$0200a8c0@jwin> <873d7mgra8.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <015801c11489$f2470420$0200a8c0@jwin> 1.) Err. I think it opens in the morning (The Court Does) 2.) don't know 3.) Yes, but the traffic in San Francisco is bad; so not many can make it (or want to go) 4.) no ideal The ideal behind it; is that if the protest crowd were large enough(100+) then people/media will start paying attention to it. Sat. seems like a good day, 'cause most people has to work during week days. If you got a better suggestion, please tell me (I'm all ears now ^_^) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Klepht" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. 10:00am > >>>>> "r" == roylo writes: > > r> I'm planning to hold a protest at U.S. Attorney for the > r> Northern District of California office in San Jose at 10:00am > r> this Sat. > > 1) Is the office open on Saturday? > > 2) Is anyone in downtown San Jose on Saturday? > > 3) Isn't the main office of the USA up here in San Francisco? > > 4) How are you going to get any cameras so soon after Monday? > > ~Klepht > > -- > klepht@eleutheria.org > http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From crism at maden.org Tue Jul 24 14:49:08 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Better crypto for eBooks? In-Reply-To: References: <200107241506.KAA16843@og1.olagrande.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010724144415.02739c80@mail.maden.org> At 10:41 24-07-2001, Marvin wrote: >Perhaps I am not imaginative enough, but if it's on my own general purpose >computer, I can't see how any eBook kind of coding could prevent the use >of generalized tools evolving to rip the contents right off the screen it >is being viewed on. You're absolutely right. Information is unlike a physical artifact in that when you give it to someone, you instantly create a copy, rather than transferring it. In terms of digital information, the only secure form of an ebook is a handheld device, like the Rocket eBook (or the other things now from Gemstar). You can use private-key encryption with the private key burned into the hardware of the physical device, with no means of transferring content from the device to another computer. However, even then, the information in visual and semantic form is being output by the screen. The ebook can be laboriously scanned, one page at a time, or just transcribed by a typist. Most of the pirated books on USENET are print-only bestsellers, like Harry Potter or Stephen King books. Someone took the time to convert those. If you give information to a user, you're giving them the ability (if not the right) to re-use that information. Intellectual property law needs to be re-thought, taking this into account, within the next five years, or de facto there will be no restrictions on copying at all and many artists will find it difficult to work for their art full-time. -crism -- "You will find that the State is the kind of organization which, though it does big things badly, does small things badly too." - J.K. Galbraith === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From jono at microshaft.org Tue Jul 24 15:01:34 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fox letter about the DMCA to ISPs Message-ID: <20010724150134.F7908@networkcommand.com> This just came in from a friend who works at an ISP. Comments? ---------------------------------------------------- The Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA") and other civil and criminal statutes provide for severe penalties (including prison sentences of up to 10 years, forfeiture of equipment, and fines of up to $2 million per incident) against persons who record and post pirated copies of films on the Internet. [snip] The information provided in this letter is provided under penalty of perjury. We look forward to working with you. ----------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:40:08 -0700 >From Antipiracy@fox.com Mon Jul 23 17:02:29 2001 Subject: [SECURITY] Internet Piracy of Planet of the Apes July 23, 2001 Via E-Mail Re: Internet Piracy of Planet of the Apes Dear Colleagues: We at Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation ("Fox") are writing to ask for your help and cooperation in the protection of our upcoming highly-anticipated motion picture, Planet of the Apes. Fox is the copyright owner and owner of exclusive distribution rights in all media, including the Internet, to this motion picture, which is being released in the United States and certain other countries on July 27, 2001. Some pre-release screenings are already taking place. As you are likely aware, technological developments currently allow the seriously detrimental and widespread infringement of intellectual property via the unauthorized electronic dissemination of films over the Internet. As widely reported in the media, up to 1 million illegal copies of first-run movies are now available on the Internet. Fox, in cooperation with the Motion Picture Association of America ("MPAA"), the U.S. Department of Justice and the FBI, is working to combat piracy of films on the Internet. We hope to be able to count on your assistance as well. We anticipate a high volume of Internet piracy of Planet of the Apes. Illegal film footage posted and/or available for download on the Internet is usually sourced from video recordings made in movie theaters and digitally transferred into electronic video formats. As Fox is making every effort to aggressively battle Internet piracy, it is likely that you will notice an increase in the volume of correspondence which you receive from Fox and/or from the MPAA. Therefore, we would like to take this opportunity to introduce you to the department responsible for combating this issue at Fox which is authorized to act on behalf of Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation, the copyright owner of Planet of the Apes. Our contact information is: Fox Intellectual Property Department (310) 369-4260 antipiracy@fox.com Working with you and our other partners, we hope to be able to identify and remove infringing files quickly. The Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA") and other civil and criminal statutes provide for severe penalties (including prison sentences of up to 10 years, forfeiture of equipment, and fines of up to $2 million per incident) against persons who record and post pirated copies of films on the Internet. We intend to pursue and prosecute infringers to the fullest extent possible in conjunction with the MPAA, the FBI, the Department of Justice, and through civil lawsuits. Congress included mechanisms in the DMCA which are designed to allow copyright owners to prevent and prosecute infringement of their rights on the Internet. The DMCA requires copyright owners to notify you, as the Internet Service Provider, of infringing activities, and imposes the obligation on ISPs to act expeditiously to remove or disable access to infringing materials. This letter is intended, in part, to give you advance information that you will be receiving additional notices pursuant to the DMCA from Fox, its representatives or the MPAA. We trust that we will be able to count on your prompt action in response to such notices requesting you to disable such infringing postings and/or downloads and stop the infringement of our rights. The posting and/or dissemination of unauthorized copies/recordings of all or part of a copyrighted film on the Internet (excluding trailers authorized and licensed for such use) infringes the copyrights in both the motion picture and the soundtrack. Fox, as owner of all rights relating to Planet of the Apes, has not authorized any distribution of the motion picture or its soundtrack over the Internet. We, therefore, have a good faith belief that any Internet postings of such video and/or audio materials constitute infringement. As you become aware or are notified of them, please remove any such postings that are accessible on or through your system or network, accessed by users through your system or network, or located using your information location tools, and disable access to any sites fulfilling these criteria. This letter provides you with information regarding our rights and of the fact that we have not authorized any Internet distribution of Planet of the Apes or other films. We would greatly appreciate your assistance in our fight against Internet piracy. We hope that you will help us by using all information location tools available to you to identify such infringing material and that you will immediately remove any such postings or disable access to any location where the infringing activities described herein are or will be occurring. Please try to expeditiously remove infringing postings and/or disable access to infringing material of which you become or are made aware. We may contact you in the coming weeks, as specific examples of infringing activity accessible on or through your network or system come to our attention, and we will reiterate our request that such items be removed or disabled immediately. Please keep in mind that extremely prompt action is and will continue to be necessary in order to prevent the widespread proliferation of infringing copies of Planet of the Apes. Since Fox has not authorized the sale of any promotional items, including press kits, we may also need your assistance in stopping the sale of such items, as well as production items. The information provided in this letter is provided under penalty of perjury. We look forward to working with you. Please contact us if you have any questions, or to provide us with updated contact information for your company. Sincerely, Fox Group Intellectual Property Department cc: Motion Picture Association of America -- ----- End forwarded message ----- From tom at thinkpix.com Tue Jul 24 15:01:47 2001 From: tom at thinkpix.com (tom moore) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Generic reply to the "Dmitry is a criminal" comments Message-ID: <04af01c1148c$420c64d0$3e203b40@PRODUCTION> [note to list: Feel free to use, make suggestions, correct spelling mistakes, or delete...] Dmitry helped to create a tool that can be used to circumvent digital encryption technology. As many people do not have the technological background to understand what this means, I'll make an analogy to the physical world, with which we are all familiar. In the physical world, we secure our property stored in physical boundaries with physical locks. Laws exist that demand that these boundaries be respected with or without the locks, but the locks are put in place to discourage those who might not respect the law. Circumvention devices are devices that may be used to bypass these physical locks. This definition can include (among the more obvious examples) lockpicks, skeleton keys, crowbars, credit cards, and coat hangers. Any of these items may be used to bypass locks, but the items themselves are not illegal. Bypassing the locks themselves is not illegal, either. Actually violating the property that the locks were put in place to protect, on the other hand, is. Dmitry's software can best be thought of in these terms. Existing law addresses the question of theft of intellectual property. Dmitry is not accused of pirating intellectual property, but rather with creating a circumvention device. In fact, the software in question was not created in the United States, but rather in Russia. Russian law does not only permit the use of Dmitry's code, it explicitly grants people the right to create backup copies of computer files, which is impossible on Adobe's files without the use of his software. It is questionable whether the DMCA applies to Dmitry's case, for these reasons. Dmitry's company, not Dmitry, marketed the software in the US. Dmitry's role was simply to talk about the software, and its broad implications for the technology of electronic books in general. The DMCA, which Dmitry is accused of violating, attempts to make illegal the investigation, creation, possession, and use of these devices. In our real-world analogy, it is like prosecuting someone for breaking into their own car with a wire coathanger. The DMCA would make the coathanger illegal, and make anyone discussing how to employ one subject to arrest. Note that the DMCA does not make actual car theft illegal (it already is). Rather, it makes illegal any item, action, or discussion that would make getting past the locks on a car illegal. Note also that violations of the DMCA are considered a criminal act, rather than the subject of a civil lawsuit. In the United States, we have always respected freedom of speech. Knowledge itself has never been considered a crime. You are free to buy books on bomb building, free to discuss drug use, and free to talk about how to rob a bank. The only time you may be subjected to prosecution is if you actually bomb something, use drugs, or rob a bank. The DMCA seeks to change that, and, by doing so, threatens the values we hold most dear. Dmitry's case should be immediately dismissed, even under the DMCA. However, it must not stop there. The DMCA itself is bad law that fundamentally seeks to change the traditional rights of consumers and bypass the First Amendment. It does nothing to further laws that safeguard intellectual property, which already exist and are actively enforced. It is a dangerous first step into the Orwellian world of thought-crime. It was pushed past the American people as an obscure technological measure that most would never have noticed. Now that we see what it really is, though, it is up to us to make sure that the law is repealed, and that no other such law is ever passed. From kris at firstworld.net Tue Jul 24 15:11:12 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. 10:00am In-Reply-To: <015801c11489$f2470420$0200a8c0@jwin> References: <003101c11429$78f19f00$0200a8c0@jwin> <873d7mgra8.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010724145810.00a6eea0@pop.firstworld.net> At 02:45 PM 7/24/2001 -0700, roylo wrote: >1.) Err. I think it opens in the morning (The Court Does) >2.) don't know >3.) Yes, but the traffic in San Francisco is bad; so not many can make it >(or want to go) >4.) no ideal > >The ideal behind it; is that if the protest crowd were large enough(100+) >then people/media will start paying attention to it. >Sat. seems like a good day, 'cause most people has to work during week days. I agree about holding Saturday/Sunday events. Unlike Adobe, we aren't going to personally influence the people that control Dmitry's fate with a small protest. Those people are professional bureaucrats with badges, guns, gavels, huge egos and complete cover your ass mentality. Further, many of those that we wish to influence are located in D.C - like Senators, Representatives and our own "beloved" USAG. What we need are massive rallies that make the newspapers and TV and increase the awareness of our cause. We can get a lot more people to rallies during the weekend then during the week. Face it, if you're a newspaper editor, what is more interesting, a 100 people protesting on Monday, or a 1000 people protesting on Sunday? just my $0.02 Kris From mickeym at mindspring.com Tue Jul 24 15:15:42 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (mickey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Generic reply to the "break into your house" comments References: <04af01c1148c$420c64d0$3e203b40@PRODUCTION> Message-ID: <3B5DF38E.B61C5426@mindspring.com> I know we've heard the same arguments over and over, here is my reply to this one: "This same individual would be outraged if someone broke into his home and stole his TV set." Yes, as would anyone. Yet, your example isn't complete. It's not what is at issue. Consider the case where you have left your keys on the coffee table. Is it illegal for you to break in to your own house? That's what people mean by "fair use." Gaining access to something I already own, such as my (paid for) copy of a copyrighted work, should not be seen as bad. Why should printing an eBook to read offline, or transferring an eBook to use on my second PC be seen as illegal? Granted, there is a fear about what some people might do next, like upload a work to the net, but that is already illegal. The programmer of the tools, however, should not be liable for what another person does with them. mickeym From admin at seattle-chat.com Tue Jul 24 15:18:58 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fox letter about the DMCA to ISPs In-Reply-To: <20010724150134.F7908@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: This needs to get slashdotted immediatly! :) -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Jon O . Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 3:02 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fox letter about the DMCA to ISPs This just came in from a friend who works at an ISP. Comments? ---------------------------------------------------- The Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA") and other civil and criminal statutes provide for severe penalties (including prison sentences of up to 10 years, forfeiture of equipment, and fines of up to $2 million per incident) against persons who record and post pirated copies of films on the Internet. [snip] The information provided in this letter is provided under penalty of perjury. We look forward to working with you. ----------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:40:08 -0700 >From Antipiracy@fox.com Mon Jul 23 17:02:29 2001 Subject: [SECURITY] Internet Piracy of Planet of the Apes July 23, 2001 Via E-Mail Re: Internet Piracy of Planet of the Apes Dear Colleagues: We at Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation ("Fox") are writing to ask for your help and cooperation in the protection of our upcoming highly-anticipated motion picture, Planet of the Apes. Fox is the copyright owner and owner of exclusive distribution rights in all media, including the Internet, to this motion picture, which is being released in the United States and certain other countries on July 27, 2001. Some pre-release screenings are already taking place. As you are likely aware, technological developments currently allow the seriously detrimental and widespread infringement of intellectual property via the unauthorized electronic dissemination of films over the Internet. As widely reported in the media, up to 1 million illegal copies of first-run movies are now available on the Internet. Fox, in cooperation with the Motion Picture Association of America ("MPAA"), the U.S. Department of Justice and the FBI, is working to combat piracy of films on the Internet. We hope to be able to count on your assistance as well. We anticipate a high volume of Internet piracy of Planet of the Apes. Illegal film footage posted and/or available for download on the Internet is usually sourced from video recordings made in movie theaters and digitally transferred into electronic video formats. As Fox is making every effort to aggressively battle Internet piracy, it is likely that you will notice an increase in the volume of correspondence which you receive from Fox and/or from the MPAA. Therefore, we would like to take this opportunity to introduce you to the department responsible for combating this issue at Fox which is authorized to act on behalf of Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation, the copyright owner of Planet of the Apes. Our contact information is: Fox Intellectual Property Department (310) 369-4260 antipiracy@fox.com Working with you and our other partners, we hope to be able to identify and remove infringing files quickly. The Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA") and other civil and criminal statutes provide for severe penalties (including prison sentences of up to 10 years, forfeiture of equipment, and fines of up to $2 million per incident) against persons who record and post pirated copies of films on the Internet. We intend to pursue and prosecute infringers to the fullest extent possible in conjunction with the MPAA, the FBI, the Department of Justice, and through civil lawsuits. Congress included mechanisms in the DMCA which are designed to allow copyright owners to prevent and prosecute infringement of their rights on the Internet. The DMCA requires copyright owners to notify you, as the Internet Service Provider, of infringing activities, and imposes the obligation on ISPs to act expeditiously to remove or disable access to infringing materials. This letter is intended, in part, to give you advance information that you will be receiving additional notices pursuant to the DMCA from Fox, its representatives or the MPAA. We trust that we will be able to count on your prompt action in response to such notices requesting you to disable such infringing postings and/or downloads and stop the infringement of our rights. The posting and/or dissemination of unauthorized copies/recordings of all or part of a copyrighted film on the Internet (excluding trailers authorized and licensed for such use) infringes the copyrights in both the motion picture and the soundtrack. Fox, as owner of all rights relating to Planet of the Apes, has not authorized any distribution of the motion picture or its soundtrack over the Internet. We, therefore, have a good faith belief that any Internet postings of such video and/or audio materials constitute infringement. As you become aware or are notified of them, please remove any such postings that are accessible on or through your system or network, accessed by users through your system or network, or located using your information location tools, and disable access to any sites fulfilling these criteria. This letter provides you with information regarding our rights and of the fact that we have not authorized any Internet distribution of Planet of the Apes or other films. We would greatly appreciate your assistance in our fight against Internet piracy. We hope that you will help us by using all information location tools available to you to identify such infringing material and that you will immediately remove any such postings or disable access to any location where the infringing activities described herein are or will be occurring. Please try to expeditiously remove infringing postings and/or disable access to infringing material of which you become or are made aware. We may contact you in the coming weeks, as specific examples of infringing activity accessible on or through your network or system come to our attention, and we will reiterate our request that such items be removed or disabled immediately. Please keep in mind that extremely prompt action is and will continue to be necessary in order to prevent the widespread proliferation of infringing copies of Planet of the Apes. Since Fox has not authorized the sale of any promotional items, including press kits, we may also need your assistance in stopping the sale of such items, as well as production items. The information provided in this letter is provided under penalty of perjury. We look forward to working with you. Please contact us if you have any questions, or to provide us with updated contact information for your company. Sincerely, Fox Group Intellectual Property Department cc: Motion Picture Association of America -- ----- End forwarded message ----- _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jono at microshaft.org Tue Jul 24 15:27:25 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FBI becomes Copyright '911' In-Reply-To: ; from admin@seattle-chat.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:18:58PM -0700 References: <20010724150134.F7908@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010724152725.M7908@networkcommand.com> FBI becomes Copyright '911' http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/20548.html From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Jul 24 15:31:16 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Where IS Dmitry?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87n15uez7v.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "AS" == Alan Smithee writes: AS> Does anyone know of his whereabouts? Do we know which jail? First, Mr. Smithee, I'd like to say I'm a big fan of your movies, and it's an honor to have you on this list. Second, there was some original confusion about Dmitry's location. He was visited sometime late last week in Las Vegas by Elcomsoft people, and I think that may be the last time he was sighted. You may want to review the great index of Dmitry-related articles here: http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=170 ...for more information. AS> Has he been arraigned? Is he going to appear in court? He's coming to Northern California to do some court thing relating to whether or not he needs a public defender. I think that's his next public appearance. AS> Shouldn't we be setting up vigils or something? That's definitely a cool idea. However, since we're not sure where he is, it would be a good think to locate him first. One place we haven't heard much from is Las Vegas. Are there any supporters there? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From crism at maden.org Tue Jul 24 15:31:20 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. 10:00am In-Reply-To: <015801c11489$f2470420$0200a8c0@jwin> References: <003101c11429$78f19f00$0200a8c0@jwin> <873d7mgra8.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010724152436.0273fb90@mail.maden.org> At 14:45 24-07-2001, roylo wrote: >1.) Err. I think it opens in the morning (The Court Does) >2.) don't know >3.) Yes, but the traffic in San Francisco is bad; so not many can make it >(or want to go) Why would anyone drive into downtown San Francisco? Drive to Daly City or Berkeley and take BART, drive to any South Bay station and take CalTrain, or even drive into the Sunset and take Muni. I have a feeling that a weekday mid-day protest like yesterday's will be most effective, and that the main location in SF would be more effective than the San Jos? branch. However, as one news item noted, this isn't in the US Attorney's purview until the FBI actually brings the charges in court. It might be more effective to picket the DOJ and FBI until (and if) that happens. -crism -- "You will find that the State is the kind of organization which, though it does big things badly, does small things badly too." - J.K. Galbraith === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Jul 24 15:33:15 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Generic reply to the "Dmitry is a criminal" comments In-Reply-To: <04af01c1148c$420c64d0$3e203b40@PRODUCTION>; from tom@thinkpix.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 06:01:47PM -0400 References: <04af01c1148c$420c64d0$3e203b40@PRODUCTION> Message-ID: <20010724153315.A14917@zork.net> tom moore writes: > [note to list: Feel free to use, make suggestions, correct spelling > mistakes, or delete...] > > Dmitry helped to create a tool that can be used to circumvent digital > encryption technology. I think this is too vague. It doesn't circumvent encryption technology in general, but it (subject to criticism by lawyers) circumvents a particular encryption scheme. > As many people do not have the technological > background to understand what this means, I'll make an analogy to the > physical world, with which we are all familiar. It's very risky to do that! > In the physical world, we secure our property stored in physical boundaries > with physical locks. Laws exist that demand that these boundaries be > respected with or without the locks, but the locks are put in place to > discourage those who might not respect the law. > > Circumvention devices are devices that may be used to bypass these physical > locks. This definition can include (among the more obvious examples) > lockpicks, skeleton keys, crowbars, credit cards, and coat hangers. Any of > these items may be used to bypass locks, but the items themselves are not > illegal. Bypassing the locks themselves is not illegal, either. Actually > violating the property that the locks were put in place to protect, on the > other hand, is. This analogy is extremely unfortunate: it's been used by the copyright industries and they use it because they feel that the public will agree with them upon hearing this analogy. "Violating" property is vague. Information is not property and ... ... when you buy copies of copyrighted works, the copies are traditionally sold, not licensed. (That's why all these licenses _claim_ "This software is licensed, not sold" -- because normally it would be sold. Whether the licenses are factually correct when they say that the software is licensed, not sold, is another issue.) The copies are then _your property_, yet copyright law still applies to prevent you from using this property _in certain very specific ways_. http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/202.html Ownership of a copyright, or of any of the exclusive rights under a copyright, is distinct from ownership of any material object in which the work is embodied. Transfer of ownership of any material object, including the copy or phonorecord in which the work is first fixed, does not of itself convey any rights in the copyrighted work embodied in the object; nor, in the absence of an agreement, does transfer of ownership of a copyright or of any exclusive rights under a copyright convey property rights in any material object. 17 USC 202. Because of this distinction, analogies to physical property are extremely misleading. Measures to enforce copyright aren't measures to protect property, and they aren't even necessarily _like_ measures to protect property. > Dmitry's software can best be thought of in these terms. Existing law > addresses the question of theft of intellectual property. http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html I take this is pretty serious. In a letter I wrote, I compared copyright violations to tax evasion, rather than to theft: http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/copyright-subsidy.txt The point is not that copyright infringement is legal but that it is quite a distinct crime from other crimes such as theft or trespass. > Dmitry is not > accused of pirating intellectual property, but rather with creating a > circumvention device. In fact, the software in question was not created in > the United States, but rather in Russia. If you're writing to people who complained that "Dmitry sucks! Dmitry is a pirate!" then the jurisdiction argument is just completely uninteresting to them. I mean, the jurisdiction argument is important, but not to people who think that "Dmitry sucks and is a pirate". They'll read this and think, "Oh, OK. So Dmitry sucks and is a _Russian_ pirate". I suggest that, when you write to people whose concerns are about Dmitry Sklyarov personally having done something bad, you should completely avoid the jurisdictional stuff, and explain why he is not a bad person, why his software has substantial non-infringing uses (and in fact was not marketed as a tool for copyright infringement!), how consumers are benefitting, and points in this vein. > Russian law does not only permit > the use of Dmitry's code, it explicitly grants people the right to create > backup copies of computer files, which is impossible on Adobe's files > without the use of his software. It is questionable whether the DMCA > applies to Dmitry's case, for these reasons. Dmitry's company, not Dmitry, > marketed the software in the US. Dmitry's role was simply to talk about the > software, and its broad implications for the technology of electronic books > in general. All jurisdictional and procedural stuff. So people who say "Dmitry is bad" may not care about any of this. This is what you call "legal technicalities" when someone defends somebody you think is evil. > The DMCA, which Dmitry is accused of violating, attempts to make illegal the > investigation, creation, possession, and use of these devices. In our > real-world analogy, it is like prosecuting someone for breaking into their > own car with a wire coathanger. The DMCA would make the coathanger illegal, > and make anyone discussing how to employ one subject to arrest. Note that > the DMCA does not make actual car theft illegal (it already is). Rather, it > makes illegal any item, action, or discussion that would make getting past > the locks on a car illegal. > Fair enough, but your analogy will be confusing to someone who doesn't understand copyright or DRM. That person will say "But it's _their_ property, it's not your property!" Remember that some people have never heard that fair use exists as a concept in U.S. copyright law, never mind that there are noninfringing uses other than reading. You can try to teach these by example. For instance, in a message I'll forward here soon, I mentioned that I know a grad student who reproduced part of a cartoon in an academic presentation. This is legal, but DRM technology could have prevented it. The Adobe eBook reader could have prevented it; AEBPR could have permitted it. Someone knows a blind person who couldn't read an encrypted manual. Elcomsoft's software allowed this person to convert the manual into a format that text-to-speech software could deal with. No joke, real harms from DRM, real solutions and real non-infringing uses from circumvention. As Dave Barry always says, "I am _not_ making this up"! > In the United States, we have always respected freedom of speech. See e.g. _Free Speech in Its Forgotten Years, 1870-1920_ by David M. Rabban. > Knowledge > itself has never been considered a crime. You are free to buy books on bomb > building, free to discuss drug use, and free to talk about how to rob a > bank. The only time you may be subjected to prosecution is if you actually > bomb something, use drugs, or rob a bank. Nope! Remember the "aiding and abetting" law -- with which Sklyarov has actually been charged. If someone is trying to murder someone and you knowingly give the prospective murderer a book on poisons, or a map to a weapon shop, the fact that what you provided was a map or a book will not protect you. Although DeCSS is protected by the first amendment -- and let's pretend courts agreed -- if someone says "Hey, I want to go pirate some DVDs" and you give him a copy of DeCSS, the first amendment will not protect you either. Teaching, with the specific intent to facilitate a crime, can be illegal. So can other speech acts. The government has been pointing this out at length in the DeCSS case, where it's not actually relevant. But it's worth attacking the relevance than disputing the fact. > The DMCA seeks to change that, > and, by doing so, threatens the values we hold most dear. Grumble, grumble. This is one of several problems with the DMCA, and the rhetorical "most dear" may not be appropriate. There are other laws which may be more of a threat to free speech than the DMCA is, which is not to minimize the threat from the DMCA, which is very serious. > Dmitry's case should be immediately dismissed, even under the DMCA. > However, it must not stop there. The DMCA itself is bad law that > fundamentally seeks to change the traditional rights of consumers and bypass > the First Amendment. It does nothing to further laws that safeguard > intellectual property, which already exist and are actively enforced. It is > a dangerous first step into the Orwellian world of thought-crime. It was > pushed past the American people as an obscure technological measure that > most would never have noticed. Now that we see what it really is, though, > it is up to us to make sure that the law is repealed, and that no other such > law is ever passed. Here I think your rhetoric is again too strong and it would be better to be more specific about non-infringing and fair uses which are prevented (there are many!) and speech acts that are suppressed (there are again many). Yes, the law is a step toward things that could be that bad, but you're writing to people who might not even disagree with it yet. I suffer from the same tendency to want to emphasize with my choice of language just how grave certain risks are. But it's important to give people evidence where they might not yet have been exposed to it at all. -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe From spider at sneakybastard.com Tue Jul 24 15:37:40 2001 From: spider at sneakybastard.com (Sonia Arana) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] He's free.... (fwd) Message-ID: Dan is now less clueless. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 24 Jul 2001 22:28:10 -0000 From: dan@reed.nu To: spider@sneakybastard.com Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] He's free.... (fwd) Thanks Sonia for your prompt reply. I guess the idea that there are tools in my home that can be used for legal and illegal uses makes the most sense in understanding the arguments here. Everything from cd burners to bongs are sold legally with the express intent being legal uses. If I were an eBook author, I would not want to learn the security I presumed would protect my copywrite-protected material was flawed. However..I also don't respect the argument of the lowest common denominator being the law when it comes to borderless commerce through the internet. Being legal in Russia means little to me. His customers are in the US from what I have read, as are many of the authors. To play along with the home analogy, if someone pointed out to me how my home security was flawed, I would thank them and demand attention from the security company that sold me the flawed system (which, I assume, was the first thing Mr. Sklyarov did upon making his discovery). Had he told others of my flawed home security, how to get into my home and then helped someone else manufacture and sell a master key to anyone wanting to enter my home, then I would want him held accountable for damages. (I think) :) Pointing out is different from acting upon. The fact that anybody with a basic understanding of cryptography can break it is different than actually having many different people break the product's security. However, I do say shout it from the rooftops if you discover a flaw, yet don't undercut commerce, don't steal, have a conscious. I don't like people who steal (in case you hadn't noticed). Its a Jungian shadow thing from childhood. It's difficult to seperate the man from the company for me with this scenario. It's difficult to discern intentions. While you may want to scream it's irrelevant, I can't help but ask, "Aren't 'denial of service' attacks or e-mail viruses other forms of letting people know there are security flaws?" Anyway, thanks for your input. I appreciate your using the term prosecute instead of persecute. And I hope you can rally the support you have harnessed for some other 'good deeds' too. (or at least deeds I think are good!) Dan Seattle On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:19:21 -0700 (PDT) Sonia Arana wrote: > > >Hi Dan, > >All books have copywrite protection. If you copy them without permission, >you are breaking the law. Adobe sells a product to authors of e-books >claiming that it will protect their work from unauthorized copying. Dmitry >showed that their product is quite primitive - anybody with a basic >understanding of cryptography can break it. Dmitry came to the US to speak >about these flaws. > >Ask yourself - if you bought a security system for your house, and someone >spoke up about how easy it was to break into your house anyway, would you >want him to go to jail? Or would you want the company that made the flawed >security system to fix it? > >It is true that Dmitry's company makes a product that circuvments >the encryption on ebooks - however, it is not sold as a >circumvention device. It is sold to ebook owners who want to add features >to their ebook, such as using text-to-speech readers, saving a copy for >themselves, or highlighting important passages. The product must >circumvent encryption to do so. Does this mean that people can make >unauthorized copies with this tool? Probably. But think of all your >household items that have legimate uses, and illegal uses. > >Furthermore, this product is not illegal in Russia. Why should we imprison >people for what they legally do in their own countries? He is accused of >importing the device, but he did not. Some people in the US have the tool, >but it is not Dmitry who should be prosecuted because of this. > >Hope this helps. > >Sonia > >> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- >> Date: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 9:01 PM +0000 >> From: "dan@reed.nu" >> To: "circularfile@boycottadobe.com" >> Subject: He's free.... >> >> I don't get it. The way I read the news articles is that this guy found the >> >> loophole in Adobe's secure eBook program and the company he works for was >> >> selling the services to circumvent the flawed security. (<-read as 'steal') >> >> >> >> Isn't it wrong to steal? >> >> >> >> If I don't keep my doors locked at my house and a .357 magnum loaded and >> within >> >> reach, it's ok for someone to steal my things or the things of others that >> are >> >> in my home? >> >> >> >> Please direct me to some good reading so I can shake this ignorance. >> >> >> >> Dan >> >> Seattle >> >> > > > -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su From crism at maden.org Tue Jul 24 15:37:12 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dr. Dobb's has the story Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010724153543.02746e70@mail.maden.org> Oddly, the reporter doesn't mention that she was chanting just as loudly as anyone else... (-: -crism -- "You will find that the State is the kind of organization which, though it does big things badly, does small things badly too." - J.K. Galbraith === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Jul 24 15:42:24 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. 10:00am In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010724152436.0273fb90@mail.maden.org>; from crism@maden.org on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:31:20PM -0700 References: <003101c11429$78f19f00$0200a8c0@jwin> <873d7mgra8.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <015801c11489$f2470420$0200a8c0@jwin> <5.0.2.1.0.20010724152436.0273fb90@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <20010724154224.B14917@zork.net> Christopher R. Maden writes: > However, as one news item noted, this isn't in the US Attorney's purview > until the FBI actually brings the charges in court. I think this is incorrect. Can anyone substantiate it? > It might be more > effective to picket the DOJ and FBI until (and if) that happens. The U.S. Attorney's Office is a part of the Department of Justice. The U.S. Attorney is an employee of the Department of Justice. The Attorney General is in charge of the Department of Justice, but in each Federal judicial district is a U.S. Attorney for that District and some quantity of Assistant U.S. Attorneys (AUSAs). All of those people work for the Department of Justice and all of them are prosecutors. That doesn't mean that each one prosecutes every case. -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe From rabbi at quickie.net Tue Jul 24 15:45:52 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fox letter about the DMCA to ISPs In-Reply-To: <20010724150134.F7908@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: I got one of these at the web hosting company I worked at when Star Wars, Episode I came out. (Actually, it was a few weeks before it came out.) It was faxed to us. I remember disussion on the inet-access list about the possible illegality of broadcast faxing this message. On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Jon O . wrote: > This just came in from a friend who works at an ISP. > > Comments? > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > The Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA") and other civil and criminal > statutes provide for severe penalties (including prison sentences of up > to 10 years, forfeiture of equipment, and fines of up to $2 million per > incident) against persons who record and post pirated copies of films on > the Internet. > [snip] > The information provided in this letter is provided under penalty of perjury. > We look forward to working with you. > > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:40:08 -0700 > >From Antipiracy@fox.com Mon Jul 23 17:02:29 2001 > Subject: [SECURITY] Internet Piracy of Planet of the Apes > > > July 23, 2001 > > Via E-Mail > > Re: Internet Piracy of Planet of the Apes > > Dear Colleagues: > > We at Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation ("Fox") are writing to ask > for your help and cooperation in the protection of our upcoming > highly-anticipated motion picture, Planet of the Apes. Fox is the > copyright owner and owner of exclusive distribution rights in all media, > including the Internet, to this motion picture, which is being released > in the United States and certain other countries on July 27, 2001. > > Some pre-release screenings are already taking place. > > As you are likely aware, technological developments currently allow the > seriously detrimental and widespread infringement of intellectual > property via the unauthorized electronic dissemination of films over the > Internet. As widely reported in the media, up to 1 million illegal > copies of first-run movies are now available on the Internet. Fox, in > cooperation with the Motion Picture Association of America ("MPAA"), > the U.S. Department of Justice and the FBI, is working to combat piracy > of films on the Internet. We hope to be able to count on your assistance > as well. > > We anticipate a high volume of Internet piracy of Planet of the Apes. > Illegal film footage posted and/or available for download on the > Internet is usually sourced from video recordings made in movie theaters > and digitally transferred into electronic video formats. As Fox is > making every effort to aggressively battle Internet piracy, it is likely > that you will notice an increase in the volume of correspondence > which you receive from Fox and/or from the MPAA. Therefore, we would > like to take this opportunity to introduce you to the department > responsible for combating this issue at Fox which is authorized to act > on behalf of Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation, the copyright > owner of Planet of the Apes. > > Our contact information is: > > Fox Intellectual Property Department > (310) 369-4260 > antipiracy@fox.com > > Working with you and our other partners, we hope to be able to identify and > remove infringing files quickly. > > The Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA") and other civil and criminal > statutes provide for severe penalties (including prison sentences of up > to 10 years, forfeiture of equipment, and fines of up to $2 million per > incident) against persons who record and post pirated copies of films on > the Internet. > > We intend to pursue and prosecute infringers to the fullest extent possible > in conjunction with the MPAA, the FBI, the Department of Justice, and through > civil lawsuits. > > Congress included mechanisms in the DMCA which are designed to allow copyright > owners to prevent and prosecute infringement of their rights on the Internet. > The DMCA requires copyright owners to notify you, as the Internet Service > Provider, of infringing activities, and imposes the obligation on ISPs to act > expeditiously to remove or disable access to infringing materials. This > letter is intended, in part, to give you advance information that you > will be receiving additional notices pursuant to the DMCA from Fox, its > representatives or the MPAA. We trust that we will be able to > count on your prompt action in response to such notices requesting you > to disable such infringing postings and/or downloads and stop the > infringement of our rights. > > The posting and/or dissemination of unauthorized copies/recordings of all > or part of a copyrighted film on the Internet (excluding trailers > authorized and licensed for such use) infringes the copyrights in both > the motion picture and the soundtrack. Fox, as owner of all rights > relating to Planet of the Apes, has not authorized any distribution of the > motion picture or its soundtrack over the Internet. We, therefore, > have a good faith belief that any Internet postings of such video and/or > audio materials constitute infringement. > > As you become aware or are notified of them, please remove any > such postings that are accessible on or through your system or network, > accessed by users through your system or network, or located > using your information location tools, and disable access to any sites > fulfilling these criteria. > > This letter provides you with information regarding our rights and of > the fact that we have not authorized any Internet distribution of > Planet of the Apes or other films. We would greatly appreciate your > assistance in our fight against Internet piracy. We hope that you will > help us by using all information location tools available to you to > identify such infringing material and that you will immediately remove > any such postings or disable access to any location where the infringing > activities described herein are or will be occurring. Please try to > expeditiously remove infringing postings and/or disable access to > infringing material of which you become or are made aware. > > We may contact you in the coming weeks, as specific examples of > infringing activity accessible on or through your network or system > come to our attention, and we will reiterate our request that such > items be removed or disabled immediately. Please keep in mind that > extremely prompt action is and will continue to be necessary in > order to prevent the widespread proliferation of infringing copies of > Planet of the Apes. Since Fox has not authorized the sale of any > promotional items, including press kits, we may also need your assistance > in stopping the sale of such items, as well as production items. > > The information provided in this letter is provided under penalty of perjury. > We look forward to working with you. > > Please contact us if you have any questions, or to provide us with > updated contact information for your company. > > Sincerely, > Fox Group Intellectual Property Department > > > cc: Motion Picture Association of America > > > -- > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Jul 24 15:47:29 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] He's free.... (fwd) In-Reply-To: ; from spider@sneakybastard.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:37:40PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010724154729.C14917@zork.net> Sonia Arana writes: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: 24 Jul 2001 22:28:10 -0000 > From: dan@reed.nu > To: spider@sneakybastard.com > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] He's free.... (fwd) > > Thanks Sonia for your prompt reply. > > I guess the idea that there are tools in my home that can be used for legal and > illegal uses makes the most sense in understanding the arguments here. > Everything from cd burners to bongs are sold legally with the express intent > being legal uses. No doubt he means "express intent being illegal uses". I know people who have bought CD burners for legal purposes. (I bought a CD burner myself mainly because I develop a CD-based open source rescue system, the LNX-BBC bootable business card. I have been known to burn audio CDs sometimes, but generally I burn data.) I think the interesting point here is whether people will think that the substantial noninfringing uses are really substantial, or whether they're contrived. As far as I'm concerned, they are substantial and very real. However, I don't really like to read books on a computer these days, and I love to read books in print. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From mlc67 at columbia.edu Tue Jul 24 15:47:49 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another 'idiot' needs some perspective... In-Reply-To: <1505502.995978565@[10.0.1.220]>; from pablos@kadrevis.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 12:42:45PM -0700 References: <1505502.995978565@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <20010724154749.B19773@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> It is, in general, self-defeating to term those with whom we disagree 'idiots' or 'black holes of clues'. We are correct on the issues --- there is no need to sink to personal attacks! mike On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 12:42:45PM -0700, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: > Somebody want to reply to this black hole of clues... > -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // mail: 1651 lerner hall, new york, ny 10027 // cell: +1 (646) 382-7220 // fax / voicemail: +1 (530) 686-8623 // "facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - aldous huxley -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010724/0afe7e2c/attachment.pgp From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Jul 24 15:51:40 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Generic reply to the "break into your house" comments In-Reply-To: <3B5DF38E.B61C5426@mindspring.com>; from mickeym@mindspring.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 06:15:42PM -0400 References: <04af01c1148c$420c64d0$3e203b40@PRODUCTION> <3B5DF38E.B61C5426@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20010724155140.D14917@zork.net> mickey writes: > "This same individual would be outraged if someone broke into his home > and stole his TV set." > > Yes, as would anyone. Yet, your example isn't complete. It's not what is > at issue. Consider the case where you have left your keys on the coffee > table. Is it illegal for you to break in to your own house? That's what > people mean by "fair use." No it isn't. (Also, there's the distinction between fair uses and noninfringing uses in general. How do we know which of these "breaking into your own house" would be?) > Gaining access to something I already own, > such as my (paid for) copy of a copyrighted work, should not be seen as > bad. Why should printing an eBook to read offline, or transferring an > eBook to use on my second PC be seen as illegal? Right, but the analogy to physical property is still weak. If your house were like a copyrighted work, you wouldn't be allowed to let other people visit it! -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe From spider at sneakybastard.com Tue Jul 24 15:53:45 2001 From: spider at sneakybastard.com (Sonia Arana) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: come on... (fwd) Message-ID: another less ignorant than before... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 00:41:23 +0200 From: johan j. To: Sonia Arana Subject: Re: come on... Hey Sonia, Thanks for clearing this up for me. // j > Hi Johan, > > Dmitry's *company* sells software that allows people to add features to > their ebook. Dmitry was one engineer who helped create the product, which > is legal in Russia. The product does break the (very simple) encryption in > order to add the features. Some people might use this tool to make > unathorized copies, but we do not feel that that is enough to make a tool > illegal. > > Dmitry is accused of importing the device, which is illegal under > the DMCA, but he is innocent of this allegation. > > Sonia From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Jul 24 16:03:31 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Generic reply to the "break into your house" comments In-Reply-To: <3B5DF38E.B61C5426@mindspring.com> References: <04af01c1148c$420c64d0$3e203b40@PRODUCTION> <3B5DF38E.B61C5426@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <87zo9udj5o.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "m" == mickey writes: m> Yes, as would anyone. Yet, your example isn't complete. It's m> not what is at issue. Consider the case where you have left m> your keys on the coffee table. Is it illegal for you to break m> in to your own house? That's what people mean by "fair use." Here's my preferred analogy: in the United States, we have these tags that are put on mattresses. They say, very clearly, "Removing this tag will result in prosecution to the full extent of the law." (The admonition is actually for mattress salesmen because the tags also contain some kind of consumer info, and it would be illegal for them to remove the tag and sell a 8" polyester mattress as a 15" featherbed. But the admonition is frequently misinterpreted to apply to the owner him/herself.) These tags are considered laughably strange to Americans, and are the subject of many comedy routines, to the point of being cliched. Why? Because it's intuitive and instantly understandable to people that once they buy a mattress, they should be able to do whatever they want with it, as long as they don't hurt anyone else. This should include tearing off a little paper tag. I think that's a better analogy of fair use. Dmitry made software that helped you remove the mattress tag. It doesn't help you steal mattresses out of a warehouse, or take the mattress out of your neighbor's bedroom, or make your mattress into a catapult weapon. It just helps you deal with your own damn mattress how you see fit. Is what he did illegal? We're not quite sure. But we _do_ know that if it _is_ illegal, the law (DMCA) is wrong. Yes, it's true: laws can be wrong! So we're working to make sure he gets out of jail, and we're working to get the law changed so people can't be arrested for doing what Dmitry did in the future. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From kathryn at ksml.com Tue Jul 24 16:03:51 2001 From: kathryn at ksml.com (kathryn@ksml.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] psychology: differences between the FBI/DoJ and Adobe Message-ID: <004601c11494$e7d69680$aa7ba8c0@snvl1.sfba.home.com> A few reasons why I think the next step- dealing with the FBI/DoJ- will be harder. Think of a time you had to admit you were wrong. Did you first dig in your heels a little? Would you have admitted your mistake if other people were there? If that admission reflected badly on all those people? Or what if someone else tried to take credit for changing your mind, and you didn't want to give them that credit? Ever not done something because you've been ordered to do it, otherwise, voluntarily, you'd have done it? That's the psychology we'll be dealing with in the FBI/DoJ. With Adobe, they weren't admitting that a product was wrong, only a decision was wrong. With the Gov't their choice to arrest Dmitri has everything to do with their core competency/ product ("Can we arrest the right guy?"). Letting him go = admission of failure. With Adobe, boycotts and use of alternate products are a credible threat. And the EFF could simultaneously play good cop / bad cop = help give them an out while reminding them these cases can go on for years. The protests outside tell Adobe exactly what those years will mean and who they'll be losing as customers. From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Jul 24 16:20:52 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] psychology: differences between the FBI/DoJ and Adobe In-Reply-To: <004601c11494$e7d69680$aa7ba8c0@snvl1.sfba.home.com> References: <004601c11494$e7d69680$aa7ba8c0@snvl1.sfba.home.com> Message-ID: <87hew1ewx7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "k" == writes: k> A few reasons why I think the next step- dealing with the k> FBI/DoJ- will be harder. This is a great analysis -- thanks. k> Ever watch prosecutors / officials talking about actually k> innocent people who've been sent to jail and now released? k> They'll go to contorted lengths to avoid admitting the people k> are in fact innocent.... That's _so_ _true_. Another thing they'll say: "This just goes to prove that the system WORKS." I love that one. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From alex at 2600.COM Tue Jul 24 16:21:22 2001 From: alex at 2600.COM (Neon Samurai) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Generic reply to the "break into your house" comments In-Reply-To: <87zo9udj5o.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: On 24 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: What the DMCA does not take into consideration is intent. In order for one to be guilty of a crime, one needs to have committed the actus reus (physical act) as well as have had the mens rea (mental element or intent). It is understandable that copyright holders do not want their copyrights infringed upon; however, creating legislation to the effect that circumvention of any kind is illegal is absurd -- and this is what we have with Dmitry's case. Surely, Dmitry did not have the intent of facillitating piracy, and he should therefore not be held to any criminal charges; however, it seems like prosecution vis-a-vis the DMCA has no consideration of the accused's intent, and instead treats the act as a strict liability offense, like a speeding ticket where guilt has nothing to do with whether you intended to speed. Best, Alex http://www.VerizonEatsPoop.com > Date: 24 Jul 2001 16:03:31 -0700 > From: Klepht > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Generic reply to the "break into your house" > comments > > >>>>> "m" == mickey writes: > > m> Yes, as would anyone. Yet, your example isn't complete. It's > m> not what is at issue. Consider the case where you have left > m> your keys on the coffee table. Is it illegal for you to break > m> in to your own house? That's what people mean by "fair use." > > Here's my preferred analogy: in the United States, we have these tags > that are put on mattresses. They say, very clearly, "Removing this tag > will result in prosecution to the full extent of the law." (The > admonition is actually for mattress salesmen because the tags also > contain some kind of consumer info, and it would be illegal for them > to remove the tag and sell a 8" polyester mattress as a 15" > featherbed. But the admonition is frequently misinterpreted to apply > to the owner him/herself.) > > These tags are considered laughably strange to Americans, and are the > subject of many comedy routines, to the point of being cliched. Why? > Because it's intuitive and instantly understandable to people that > once they buy a mattress, they should be able to do whatever they want > with it, as long as they don't hurt anyone else. This should include > tearing off a little paper tag. > > I think that's a better analogy of fair use. > > Dmitry made software that helped you remove the mattress tag. It > doesn't help you steal mattresses out of a warehouse, or take the > mattress out of your neighbor's bedroom, or make your mattress into a > catapult weapon. It just helps you deal with your own damn mattress > how you see fit. > > Is what he did illegal? We're not quite sure. But we _do_ know that if > it _is_ illegal, the law (DMCA) is wrong. Yes, it's true: laws can be > wrong! So we're working to make sure he gets out of jail, and we're > working to get the law changed so people can't be arrested for doing > what Dmitry did in the future. > > ~Klepht > > -- > klepht@eleutheria.org > http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From sklyarov at lethe.com Tue Jul 24 16:30:13 2001 From: sklyarov at lethe.com (Kevin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] psychology: differences between the FBI/DoJ and Adobe References: <004601c11494$e7d69680$aa7ba8c0@snvl1.sfba.home.com> Message-ID: <014201c11498$a0804570$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> I think your description applies more to bureaucrats than whores^H^H^H^H^H^H politicians. I don't know much about Mueller, but my guess is he is a politician. If he thinks that keeping Dmitry in jail will hurt his chances of being confirmed by the senate, he will probably drive Dmitry to the airport himself. Free Dmitry you dumb son-of-a-bitch. - Joe Pesci, Lethal Weapon 2 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 4:03 PM Subject: [free-sklyarov] psychology: differences between the FBI/DoJ and Adobe > A few reasons why I think the next step- dealing with the FBI/DoJ- will be > harder. > > Think of a time you had to admit you were wrong. Did you first dig in your > heels a little? Would you have admitted your mistake if other people were > there? If that admission reflected badly on all those people? Or what if > someone else tried to take credit for changing your mind, and you didn't > want to give them that credit? Ever not done something because you've been > ordered to do it, otherwise, voluntarily, you'd have done it? That's the > psychology we'll be dealing with in the FBI/DoJ. > > With Adobe, they weren't admitting that a product was wrong, only a decision > was wrong. With the Gov't their choice to arrest Dmitri has everything to do > with their core competency/ product ("Can we arrest the right guy?"). > Letting him go = admission of failure. > > With Adobe, boycotts and use of alternate products are a credible threat. > And the EFF could simultaneously play good cop / bad cop = help give them an > out while reminding them these cases can go on for years. The protests > outside tell Adobe exactly what those years will mean and who they'll be > losing as customers. > > >From Adobe's point of view the EFF = a relatively safe way to explain why > they changed their minds: the EFF gave them arguments they hadn't thought of > yet. That you got help from experts who know more than you about a subject > isn't a bad thing *if you aren't expected to know as much as the experts.* > > Different with the Gov't. No direct boycott. You can't play good cop / bad > cop with cops. And the gov't won't want to admit that outsiders know more > than/ can advise them about the law. > > With Adobe, our protest = geeks persuading geeks. Adobe's programmers > probably read Slashdot, etc., knew what was up, and could sympathize with > Dmitri. With the gov't there'll be much less common ground. The FBI/DoJ acts > suspicious at best about clever programming and hacks. > > With the Gov't, they won't want the appearance of responding to protesters. > Especially as to them "protester" = a mix of "riot, Seattle, > tree-sitters..." = people you never deal with. Adobe looked out the window > to see "unhappy customer base" = people you can't ignore. > > With the confirmation hearing- these are the people who voted for the DMCA. > Their gut reaction might be "Do I want that an innocent man was arrested by > the law I made? Easiest solution is to think of him as a guilty man." Ever > watch prosecutors / officials talking about actually innocent people who've > been sent to jail and now released? They'll go to contorted lengths to avoid > admitting the people are in fact innocent.... "well, they're *procedurally* > innocent, but they still must've done *something*" The Gov't will really > want to find something wrong w/ Dmitri. We'll have to be careful not to > trigger their defensiveness. > > food for thought. > Kathryn Myronuk > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From sisgeek at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 16:35:16 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Windows Users Virus Cirulating - See Below for Attributes Message-ID: <20010724233516.5590.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: (filename of attached file, will be random name) Body of English version: Hi! How are you? I send you this file in order to have your advice. OR I hope you can help me with this file that I send. OR I hope you like the file that I sendo you. OR This is the file with the information that you ask for. See you later. Thanks Body of Spanish version: Hola como estas? Te mando este archivo para que me des tu punto de vista. OR Espero me puedas ayudar con el archivo que te mando. OR Espero te guste este archivo que te mando. OR Este es el archivo con la informacion que me pediste. Nos vemos pronto, gracias. Attached will be a file with a double extension. DO NOT CLICK ON THE ATTACHED FILE, as that will run the worm. The worm infects Windows computers, and it sends itself to all addresses in the Windows address book. It is very destructive and is difficult to remove from a Windows machine. If you are using a browser or any other GUI-based email program to read your email, please be careful and do not open any attachments you are not expecting to arrive. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From rabbi at quickie.net Tue Jul 24 16:39:20 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hrmm In-Reply-To: Message-ID: San Jose CHIP is supposedly in charge of the case now. http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/07/24/cyber.sheriff.idg/index.html -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From jono at microshaft.org Tue Jul 24 16:47:50 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Cyber-crime treaty enters home stretch In-Reply-To: ; from rabbi@quickie.net on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 04:39:20PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010724164750.D8769@networkcommand.com> Cyber-crime treaty enters home stretch http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/04/26/crime.treaty.idg/index.html From dlc at halibut.com Tue Jul 24 16:48:31 2001 From: dlc at halibut.com (David Carmean) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hrmm In-Reply-To: ; from rabbi@quickie.net on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 04:39:20PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010724164831.G25362@halibut.com> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 04:39:20PM -0700, Len Sassaman wrote: > San Jose CHIP is supposedly in charge of the case now. > > http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/07/24/cyber.sheriff.idg/index.html > Oh, great, just what Dmitry needs, to be the seminal CHIPs case. This is not going to help. From jono at microshaft.org Tue Jul 24 16:49:47 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hackers deemed terrorists under new U.K. law In-Reply-To: ; from rabbi@quickie.net on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 04:39:20PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010724164947.E8769@networkcommand.com> Hackers deemed terrorists under new U.K. law ihttp://www.idg.net/idgns/2001/02/20/HackersDeemedTerroristsUnderNewUK.shtml From mickeym at mindspring.com Tue Jul 24 16:42:32 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (Mickey McGown) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Generic reply to the "break into your house" comments References: <04af01c1148c$420c64d0$3e203b40@PRODUCTION> <3B5DF38E.B61C5426@mindspring.com> <20010724155140.D14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <3B5E07E7.AACE5BC@mindspring.com> Seth David Schoen wrote: > mickey writes: > > > "This same individual would be outraged if someone broke into his home > > and stole his TV set." > > > > Yes, as would anyone. Yet, your example isn't complete. It's not what is > > at issue. Consider the case where you have left your keys on the coffee > > table. Is it illegal for you to break in to your own house? That's what > > people mean by "fair use." > > No it isn't. (Also, there's the distinction between fair uses and > noninfringing uses in general. How do we know which of these "breaking > into your own house" would be?) You're right, this should be more like a "substantial non-infringing use." > > Gaining access to something I already own, > > such as my (paid for) copy of a copyrighted work, should not be seen as > > bad. Why should printing an eBook to read offline, or transferring an > > eBook to use on my second PC be seen as illegal? > > Right, but the analogy to physical property is still weak. If your > house were like a copyrighted work, you wouldn't be allowed to let > other people visit it! > I resort to the physical analogies in order to continue an analogy. So many people have used the lock analogy against my position that a response was necessary. Even though copyright infringement is a unique animal, most people beleive it to be akin to theft (Thanks, Jack). mickeym From rabbi at quickie.net Tue Jul 24 16:52:50 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hrmm In-Reply-To: <20010724164831.G25362@halibut.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, David Carmean wrote: > Oh, great, just what Dmitry needs, to be the seminal CHIPs case. > This is not going to help. Unless they decide they aren't likely to win. In which case, they may not want to risk a lose on their first case... -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Jul 24 17:01:04 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hrmm In-Reply-To: <20010724164831.G25362@halibut.com> References: <20010724164831.G25362@halibut.com> Message-ID: <87u201dghr.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "DC" == David Carmean writes: LS> San Jose CHIP is supposedly in charge of the case now. DC> Oh, great, just what Dmitry needs, to be the seminal CHIPs DC> case. This is not going to help. Definitely not. FuX0r. Still, at the same time, they're already trumpeting other "successes", so there's an opportunity for the CHIP to appear "fair" and "reasonable" here. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From admin at seattle-chat.com Tue Jul 24 17:00:31 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Windows Users Virus Cirulating - See Below for Attributes In-Reply-To: <20010724233516.5590.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ya I've already recieved the mail from a couple of people, told them to get a virus cleaner, funny I've used Windows OSes, along with variaous Unix OS's, and I don't use virus software, and I've never had a virus, then again, I don't open attachments as a rule. ;) -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of alfee cube Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 4:35 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Windows Users Virus Cirulating - See Below for Attributes Subject: (filename of attached file, will be random name) Body of English version: Hi! How are you? I send you this file in order to have your advice. OR I hope you can help me with this file that I send. OR I hope you like the file that I sendo you. OR This is the file with the information that you ask for. See you later. Thanks Body of Spanish version: Hola como estas? Te mando este archivo para que me des tu punto de vista. OR Espero me puedas ayudar con el archivo que te mando. OR Espero te guste este archivo que te mando. OR Este es el archivo con la informacion que me pediste. Nos vemos pronto, gracias. Attached will be a file with a double extension. DO NOT CLICK ON THE ATTACHED FILE, as that will run the worm. The worm infects Windows computers, and it sends itself to all addresses in the Windows address book. It is very destructive and is difficult to remove from a Windows machine. If you are using a browser or any other GUI-based email program to read your email, please be careful and do not open any attachments you are not expecting to arrive. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From robertl1 at home.com Tue Jul 24 16:59:17 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry Sklarov case Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724164307.00ab2ec0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Dear Amnest International, The EFF is doing its ineffectual best I suppose, nonetheless the case of USA vs Dmitry Sklyarov is definitely one for you to look into. Dmitry remains in jail as I write and very little else is known to the general community about his whereabouts or welfare. This is a classic example of hipocracy by the government of the USA and deserves all of the resources that you can bring to bear. These urls will get you started on background information: http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=170 http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov NOTE to the free-sklyarov list: It is time to get more creative. Dmitry remains in jail. We need more effective pursuit of this fundamental problem then we have seen thus far from the "leadership". Perhaps some of you in NYC will avail yourself of the opportunity to hike over to Amnesty International offices and begin a dialog with them. National Office Amnesty International USA 322 Eighth Avenue New York, NY 10001 phone: (212) 807-8400 fax: (212) 627-1451 People in the DC area can contact AI at: Legislative Office Amnesty International USA 600 Pennsylvania Ave. SE, 5th Floor Washington, DC 20003 phone: (202) 544-0200 fax: (202) 546-7142 Let's offer them computing support in exchange for AI taking on Dmitry's case as a cause celebre. I know that AI is covering many much more ghastly outrages but this is important as a mechanism for bringing affluent professionals into their movement and will help AI to further popularize their existing causes and bring them a serious new resource, the free software community. Forward, Bob La Quey Free Dmitry http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From declan at well.com Tue Jul 24 17:07:33 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fox letter about the DMCA to ISPs In-Reply-To: ; from admin@seattle-chat.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:18:58PM -0700 References: <20010724150134.F7908@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010724200733.A1955@cluebot.com> FYI it was on Politechbot.com yesterday... -Declan On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:18:58PM -0700, Charles Eakins wrote: > This needs to get slashdotted immediatly! :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Jon O . > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 3:02 PM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fox letter about the DMCA to ISPs > > > This just came in from a friend who works at an ISP. > > Comments? > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > The Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA") and other civil and criminal > statutes provide for severe penalties (including prison sentences of up > to 10 years, forfeiture of equipment, and fines of up to $2 million per > incident) against persons who record and post pirated copies of films on > the Internet. > [snip] > The information provided in this letter is provided under penalty of > perjury. > We look forward to working with you. > > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:40:08 -0700 > >From Antipiracy@fox.com Mon Jul 23 17:02:29 2001 > Subject: [SECURITY] Internet Piracy of Planet of the Apes > > > July 23, 2001 > > Via E-Mail > > Re: Internet Piracy of Planet of the Apes > > Dear Colleagues: > > We at Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation ("Fox") are writing to ask > for your help and cooperation in the protection of our upcoming > highly-anticipated motion picture, Planet of the Apes. Fox is the > copyright owner and owner of exclusive distribution rights in all media, > including the Internet, to this motion picture, which is being released > in the United States and certain other countries on July 27, 2001. > > Some pre-release screenings are already taking place. > > As you are likely aware, technological developments currently allow the > seriously detrimental and widespread infringement of intellectual > property via the unauthorized electronic dissemination of films over the > Internet. As widely reported in the media, up to 1 million illegal > copies of first-run movies are now available on the Internet. Fox, in > cooperation with the Motion Picture Association of America ("MPAA"), > the U.S. Department of Justice and the FBI, is working to combat piracy > of films on the Internet. We hope to be able to count on your assistance > as well. > > We anticipate a high volume of Internet piracy of Planet of the Apes. > Illegal film footage posted and/or available for download on the > Internet is usually sourced from video recordings made in movie theaters > and digitally transferred into electronic video formats. As Fox is > making every effort to aggressively battle Internet piracy, it is likely > that you will notice an increase in the volume of correspondence > which you receive from Fox and/or from the MPAA. Therefore, we would > like to take this opportunity to introduce you to the department > responsible for combating this issue at Fox which is authorized to act > on behalf of Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation, the copyright > owner of Planet of the Apes. > > Our contact information is: > > Fox Intellectual Property Department > (310) 369-4260 > antipiracy@fox.com > > Working with you and our other partners, we hope to be able to identify and > remove infringing files quickly. > > The Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA") and other civil and criminal > statutes provide for severe penalties (including prison sentences of up > to 10 years, forfeiture of equipment, and fines of up to $2 million per > incident) against persons who record and post pirated copies of films on > the Internet. > > We intend to pursue and prosecute infringers to the fullest extent possible > in conjunction with the MPAA, the FBI, the Department of Justice, and > through > civil lawsuits. > > Congress included mechanisms in the DMCA which are designed to allow > copyright > owners to prevent and prosecute infringement of their rights on the > Internet. > The DMCA requires copyright owners to notify you, as the Internet Service > Provider, of infringing activities, and imposes the obligation on ISPs to > act > expeditiously to remove or disable access to infringing materials. This > letter is intended, in part, to give you advance information that you > will be receiving additional notices pursuant to the DMCA from Fox, its > representatives or the MPAA. We trust that we will be able to > count on your prompt action in response to such notices requesting you > to disable such infringing postings and/or downloads and stop the > infringement of our rights. > > The posting and/or dissemination of unauthorized copies/recordings of all > or part of a copyrighted film on the Internet (excluding trailers > authorized and licensed for such use) infringes the copyrights in both > the motion picture and the soundtrack. Fox, as owner of all rights > relating to Planet of the Apes, has not authorized any distribution of the > motion picture or its soundtrack over the Internet. We, therefore, > have a good faith belief that any Internet postings of such video and/or > audio materials constitute infringement. > > As you become aware or are notified of them, please remove any > such postings that are accessible on or through your system or network, > accessed by users through your system or network, or located > using your information location tools, and disable access to any sites > fulfilling these criteria. > > This letter provides you with information regarding our rights and of > the fact that we have not authorized any Internet distribution of > Planet of the Apes or other films. We would greatly appreciate your > assistance in our fight against Internet piracy. We hope that you will > help us by using all information location tools available to you to > identify such infringing material and that you will immediately remove > any such postings or disable access to any location where the infringing > activities described herein are or will be occurring. Please try to > expeditiously remove infringing postings and/or disable access to > infringing material of which you become or are made aware. > > We may contact you in the coming weeks, as specific examples of > infringing activity accessible on or through your network or system > come to our attention, and we will reiterate our request that such > items be removed or disabled immediately. Please keep in mind that > extremely prompt action is and will continue to be necessary in > order to prevent the widespread proliferation of infringing copies of > Planet of the Apes. Since Fox has not authorized the sale of any > promotional items, including press kits, we may also need your assistance > in stopping the sale of such items, as well as production items. > > The information provided in this letter is provided under penalty of > perjury. > We look forward to working with you. > > Please contact us if you have any questions, or to provide us with > updated contact information for your company. > > Sincerely, > Fox Group Intellectual Property Department > > > cc: Motion Picture Association of America > > > -- > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Jul 24 17:06:54 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hrmm In-Reply-To: <20010724164831.G25362@halibut.com>; from dlc@halibut.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 04:48:31PM -0700 References: <20010724164831.G25362@halibut.com> Message-ID: <20010724170654.G14917@zork.net> David Carmean writes: > On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 04:39:20PM -0700, Len Sassaman wrote: > > > San Jose CHIP is supposedly in charge of the case now. > > > > http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/07/24/cyber.sheriff.idg/index.html > > Oh, great, just what Dmitry needs, to be the seminal CHIPs case. > This is not going to help. This reporter may have become confused because activists were handing out literature at the event and reporters were asking questions about Sklyarov as Ashcroft announced the program. Is it clear that someone actually said that the unit was investigating, as opposed to that this journalist got mixed up about the connection between CHIP and the Sklyarov case on account of others' questions? -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Tue Jul 24 17:10:41 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Generic reply to the "Dmitry is a criminal" comments In-Reply-To: <20010724153315.A14917@zork.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Seth David Schoen wrote: Actually, the primary weakness of most of the "Dmitry is a criminal" arguments is vagueness. Those arguments refer to "stealing," and analogies to robbing houses. Isn't it wrong to steal? So if I put a lock on my house ETC ETC ETC. I think the best way to answer this is to ask, point-blank: Who stole what? Name one single specific example of anyone stealing anything using this program. These folks easily launch into rants about hypothetical thieves who are robbing their houses or committing piracy. Point out that people should only go to jail for committing actual crimes, not because of hypothetical crimes committed by invisible pink hacker gnomes that only they can see. -S From jhclouse at juno.com Tue Jul 24 17:15:56 2001 From: jhclouse at juno.com (Jason H Clouse) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: He's free.... Message-ID: <20010724.201557.-662957.0.jhclouse@juno.com> 1. The concept of "Intellectual Property" is unconstitutional and is a twisting of the Copyright and Patent clause of the Constitution. Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution states that Congress has the power to pass laws granting authors and inventors the rights to their works and inventions for "limited times". 1a. The original Copyright law that was passed granted a period of 14 years and was NOT renewable. What kind of property do you know that works that way? Would George Washington have been agreeable to have his farm become public property after 14 years of owning it? Somehow, I doubt it. 1b. Why didn't they simply say that authors and inventors "owned" their works, if property is what they had in mind? 1c. Third, we have discussions of this clause between Jefferson and Madison where it becomes clear that they considered Copyright and Patent to be an "artificial monopoly right" rather than a "property right". Jefferson was even afraid that Copyright and Patent could be used to create long-term monopolies or general monopolies. 1d. Finally, in Western jurisprudence, only tangibles can be owned as property. In other words, you can own a book but not the words inside. Instead, you have a government-granted time-limited monopoly on the copying of the information. Copyright and Patent laws have been twisted into "property laws" over the years and the term has become extremely long and renewable. 2. What Dimitry did was produce a tool that enables one to circumvent the access (NOT copying) restrictions on eBooks. Even ignoring the fallacious "property" argument, it is STILL perfectly legal to sell crowbars--why not circumvention devices? Especially since they have perfectly legal uses for those who have *legitimately* purchased a copy of a work from an authorized publisher. 3. Dimitry and the company he works for are in *Russia*. Our laws (the DMCA) don't apply in Russia. 4. Despite this, Adobe demanded that they cease and desist sales of their product and they have complied. This software isn't even for sale anymore! 5. Dimitry came to this country to deliver a speech on the ineffectiveness of Adobe's encryption scheme at an official security symposium. He did not come to destroy American businesses or engage in criminal practices. So no, this isn't even close to "stealing". Jason Clouse ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Tue Jul 24 17:18:29 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another 'idiot' needs some perspective... In-Reply-To: <20010724154749.B19773@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, mike castleman wrote: > It is, in general, self-defeating to term those with whom we disagree > 'idiots' or 'black holes of clues'. We are correct on the issues --- there > is no need to sink to personal attacks! So far, my experience has been that these people change their minds when the details are explained. They are less likely to change their minds when heavily flamed. > mike -S From sisgeek at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 17:20:36 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hrmm In-Reply-To: <20010724170654.G14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010725002036.12098.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> these folks are an attachment physically in san jose but organizationally out of northern district DA office in san francisco. they will definitely be handling dima's case if it goes that far. http://www.usaondca.com/html/criminal.html#CHIP --- Seth David Schoen wrote: > David Carmean writes: > > > On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 04:39:20PM -0700, Len > Sassaman wrote: > > > > > San Jose CHIP is supposedly in charge of the > case now. > > > > > > > http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/07/24/cyber.sheriff.idg/index.html > > > > Oh, great, just what Dmitry needs, to be the > seminal CHIPs case. > > This is not going to help. > > This reporter may have become confused because > activists were handing > out literature at the event and reporters were > asking questions about > Sklyarov as Ashcroft announced the program. > > Is it clear that someone actually said that the unit > was > investigating, as opposed to that this journalist > got mixed up about > the connection between CHIP and the Sklyarov case on > account of > others' questions? > > -- > Seth David Schoen | Its really > terrible when FBI arrested > Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who > visited USA with peacefull > down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- > to share his knowledge with > http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american > nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Tue Jul 24 17:27:53 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hrmm In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Len Sassaman wrote: > San Jose CHIP is supposedly in charge of the case now. Cripes, I thought you meant the California Highway Patrol. The images now in my head, of Ponch and John fighting cyber-crime on their spiffy CHiPs motorcycles, will take great effort to undo. -S From robertl1 at home.com Tue Jul 24 17:32:04 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The OSCON sleeps on ... Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724171213.00ab0120@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> San Diego is a beautiful place. Laying around in a first class hotel by the bay, talking techie talk, drinking a cool beer afterward, ... Well I suppose it is easy to see why the OSCON is somnolent. In private conversations with key figures in the Open Source Community and from the Free Software Foundation, I find no special concern or passion for this issue. More a matter of fact, business as usual, let the EFF do it attitude. Dmitry Sklyarov is in jail and the Free/Open Source software community is taking a "ho hum" attitude. Were this just another civil suit I could see that. But given the egregious nature of the action precipitated by Adobe, and carried out by the FBI, with the full sanction (apparently) of the DOJ one must wonder at the laid back attitude. So it goes, Bob La Quey From roylo at sr2c.com Tue Jul 24 17:32:04 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. 10:00am References: <003101c11429$78f19f00$0200a8c0@jwin> <873d7mgra8.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <5.0.2.1.0.20010724152436.0273fb90@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <005f01c114a1$3a732780$0200a8c0@jwin> Hi, Thank you for your inputs; but there is something I need to point out to you. > However, as one news item noted, this isn't in the US Attorney's purview > until the FBI actually brings the charges in court. It might be more > effective to picket the DOJ and FBI until (and if) that happens. > According to the Press Release: Sklyarov was arrested July 16 on a criminal complaint filed by the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of California under the DMCA. ElcomSoft is the Moscow-based company employing Sklyarov. That is why I decide to hold the protest at U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of California office > -crism > -- > "You will find that the State is the kind of organization which, though > it does big things badly, does small things badly too." - J.K. Galbraith > === Freelance Text Nerd: === > PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From robertl1 at home.com Tue Jul 24 17:34:31 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What is up with Dmitry? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724173227.02e51660@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> IANAL, so can someone knowledgeable explain to me. I read, Mr. Sklyarov made his initial appearance in federal court in Las Vegas, yesterday, July 16, 2001. Mr. Sklyarov was detained without bail and ordered removed to the Northern District of California. No dates have been set for the defendant's next appearance. Who was Dmitry's attourney at this hearing? How would we find out? How long can he be detained before a new hearing must take place? Is public notice of this hearing required? How would we find out when such a hearing would take place? Bob La Quey From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Jul 24 17:36:19 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Generic reply to the "Dmitry is a criminal" comments In-Reply-To: ; from sacraver@EE.Princeton.EDU on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 08:10:41PM -0400 References: <20010724153315.A14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010724173619.I14917@zork.net> Xcott Craver writes: > Actually, the primary weakness of most of the "Dmitry is a criminal" > arguments is vagueness. Those arguments refer to "stealing," and > analogies to robbing houses. Isn't it wrong to steal? So if I > put a lock on my house ETC ETC ETC. > > I think the best way to answer this is to ask, point-blank: > Who stole what? Name one single specific example of anyone > stealing anything using this program. > > These folks easily launch into rants about hypothetical thieves > who are robbing their houses or committing piracy. Point out > that people should only go to jail for committing actual crimes, > not because of hypothetical crimes committed by invisible pink > hacker gnomes that only they can see. Fair enough, but Dmitry Sklyarov standards charged with "aiding and abetting" (not copyright infringement but circumvention) -- those "Dmitry is a criminal" folks who talked to Adobe before yesterday probably heard something like "Dmitry _helped copyright pirates_ steal". Since concerned members of the public aren't FBI investigators, and don't (as all movie fans should know by now) "investigate allegations of criminal copyright infringement", they may not be familiar with particular cases of infringement. But they know that it does happen from time to time. In that sense, many of these people will reply "It's not that Dmitry stole anything, but that he helped the community of pirates who want to steal our movies in seven min -- oops, wrong case..." But seriously, they will say that Dmitry deliberately helped make infringement easier. The question about identifying particular acts of infringement is a good one and an important one, but given that the Southern District of New York wasn't convinced by them, the anti-Dmitry public is not guaranteed to be sympathetic either. "This case is not about copyright infringement" could have been heard from either the plaintiffs or defendants in _Universal v. Reimerdes_ (from the defendants, asking where the harm was, or suggesting that there was no case; from the plaintiffs, arguing that there was no "noninfringing use" defense). The most common answer I'd expect to "who stole what?" is "I don't know who stole what with AEBPR, but the global pirate community stole a whole lot of things, and Dmitry added useful software to their arsenal of evil hacker tools". The "crowbars are legal" argument works well if people think of AEBPR like a VCR (hmmm, why do you suppose StreamBox called StreamBox VCR "Streambox VCR"?) or a photocopy machine or a CD-RW drive, which they believe has a substantial noninfringing use. It doesn't work well if people think of AEBPR like a bong, which they personally have never used in a legal way. The most damning factor in the "crowbars are legal" line is the "wink wink nudge nudge factor" (maybe it should be called the "Leonard Cohen factor") where someone suggests that everybody knows that the "real" use of some random thing is illegal. (Crowbars are kind of borderline as far as the wink wink nudge nudge factor goes, because people who actually do manual labor all the time, unlike many of us here, know about important noninfringing uses that are part of their experience. For many of us, the only obvious crowbar uses _we've experienced_ -- including "seen in a movie" -- are illegal.) Because of the wink wink nudge nudge factor, I suggest that it is still important to provide some strong examples of legal uses. I found that people at the protest were reasonable interested in these and might not have considered them before. "Oh", they may say, "I thought it was just a hacker tool" [cringe] "I didn't know that blind people were using it..." This also has the advantage of being quicker than teaching someone all about copyright law. Somebody who has never heard of 17 USC 121 can still understand that blind people ought to be allowed to read books. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From admin at seattle-chat.com Tue Jul 24 17:43:22 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What is up with Dmitry? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724173227.02e51660@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: Find out the Case number, and call the Court house. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Bob La Quey Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 5:35 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] What is up with Dmitry? IANAL, so can someone knowledgeable explain to me. I read, Mr. Sklyarov made his initial appearance in federal court in Las Vegas, yesterday, July 16, 2001. Mr. Sklyarov was detained without bail and ordered removed to the Northern District of California. No dates have been set for the defendant's next appearance. Who was Dmitry's attourney at this hearing? How would we find out? How long can he be detained before a new hearing must take place? Is public notice of this hearing required? How would we find out when such a hearing would take place? Bob La Quey _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Jul 24 17:50:57 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The OSCON sleeps on ... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724171213.00ab0120@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com>; from robertl1@home.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 05:32:04PM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724171213.00ab0120@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <20010724175057.J14917@zork.net> Bob La Quey writes: > San Diego is a beautiful place. Laying around in a first class hotel > by the bay, talking techie talk, drinking a cool beer afterward, ... > Well I suppose it is easy to see why the OSCON is somnolent. > > In private conversations with key figures in the Open Source Community > and from the Free Software Foundation, I find no special concern or > passion for this issue. More a matter of fact, business as usual, let > the EFF do it attitude. Dmitry Sklyarov is in jail and the Free/Open Source > software community is taking a "ho hum" attitude. > > Were this just another civil suit I could see that. But given the > egregious nature of the action precipitated by Adobe, and carried > out by the FBI, with the full sanction (apparently) of the DOJ one > must wonder at the laid back attitude. I've never been to OSCON, and I hear it's a good conference, but certainly (like a few other conferences) it is pretty expensive and most representation there is from businesses. In the LUGs around here I hear a _lot_ of concern. And most of the most prominent people in the community have spoken out in public, all the way to Alan Cox making a very dramatic statement. I could give a number of other examples of Linux and free software people getting involved. The San Jose event was listed by Rick Moen on the Bay Area Linux Events page, and the co-ordinator on site was Don Marti, the Vice President of SVLUG (the largest Bay Area LUG and allegedly the largest LUG in the world). The FSF's _home page_ has a prominent news item about the arrest and protests. And look at the top of Richard M. Stallman's personal home page: The EFF has temporarily withdrawn from the protests against the arrest of Russian programmer Dmitri Sklyarov, since Adobe's management has bowed to pressure by agreeing to meet with the EFF. The anti-Adobe protests may be rescheduled later if necessary, but on Monday, July 23 there may still be demonstrations in many cities. Look here for the one nearest you. This is still a good opportunity to speak out against the DMCA, and in favor of freedom. Sklyarov is a Russian programmer arrested, on a visit to the US, for developing software that the US government doesn't want you to have. Time was, the USSR imprisoned people for forbidden copying, and American scientists and historians were arrested on absurd pretexts when visiting the USSR. Now the tables have turned. It is extraordinary for Stallman to do anything to support a proprietary software programmer or a proprietary software program. I don't agree with you; I think there's an unprecedented amount of concern. I've attended most Bay Area rallies supported by the local free software community (the Great Linux Revolt, Windows Refund Day, the MPAA protest, and some others). Some of those events were called for much more convenient times (not during most people's work day), with much more notice and much better advance publicity. Yet this event got a turnout comparable to the largest of those events, and the presence in other cities was far and away better than Windows Refund Day. I don't agree that the community isn't extremely concerned. In regular life, we probably wouldn't care for Elcomsoft that much. But this is really serious. "What do we want?" "Free Dmitry!" "When do we want it?" "Yesterday!" -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From freesk at hackhawk.net Tue Jul 24 17:57:02 2001 From: freesk at hackhawk.net (hackhawk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov's Whereabouts and L.A. Rally Coverage. Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010724175146.02dd0010@localhost> I searched all my eamils, and I don't recall this going through the main distribution list. Look at paragraph three where someone with the organization spoke with Dmitry's colleague Vladimir Katalov today. So it looks like Dmitry's still in Las Vegas according to this. Still can't talk to his family. And of course I was quoted in the article too. ;-) - hh >Reply-To: >From: "Xeni Jardin" >To: "John Parres" , , > , , , > >Subject: SADaily: Sklyarov, LA protest, updates on location, communication... > >Text-only copy follows. From today's West Coast (late) edition, >. The story will also >appear in tomorrow's New York (early) edition, www.siliconalleydaily.com>. -- XJ >================================================ > >Tech-Activists Unite in L.A, N.Y. and Around the U.S. to Protest >Sklyarov Arrest next >Full story: http://www.digitalcoastdaily.com/issues/dcw07242001.html > >by Xeni Jardin > >Carrying signs that read, "Know too much, go to jail" and >"Programming=Speech, DMCA=Censorship," a group of >programmers-turned-activists gathered outside the Los Angeles Federal >Building Monday to protest the imprisonment of 27-year-old Russian >security expert Dmitry Sklyarov. > >An employee of Moscow-based software company Elcomsoft, Sklyarov is >being held without bail under charges that he violated the >controversial Digital Millenium Copyright Act of 1998 (DMCA) by >developing and distributing an application that unlocks e-book >encryption technology from Adobe Systems (Nasdaq: ADBE). FBI agents >arrested Sklyarov in Las Vegas on July 16 at the DEF CON Internet >security conference, after Adobe brought his planned U.S. appearance >to the authorities' attention. > >Vladimir Katalov, Sklyarov's Elcomsoft colleague who also attended the >conference at which the arrest took place, told the Daily today that >Sklyarov remains in Las Vegas, awaiting extradition to California. >According to Katalov, Sklyarov has been able to speak with the Russian >embassy, and with legal representatives--but, apparently, not with his >family. "Unfortunately, right now he can make calls only to the >Russian Consulate, and to his attorneys," Katalov explained in an >e-mail to the Daily. "On Sunday, he was able to exchange just a few >words with Alexander Katalov, the president of ElcomSoft Co. Ltd., who >is also [currently] in [the] U.S. As far as I know, in California the >situation with the calls will be much better." Katalov declined to >provide further details. > >Sklyarov denies wrongdoing. "I wrote the program to demonstrate >security flaws, not to violate copyright law," he told a Las Vegas TV >station on July 18, adding, "It's not illegal in Russia." > >"His only crime is understanding the Adobe product's flaws, and >demonstrating those flaws in a program," said "Hackhawk," one of the >L.A. rally organizers. "The arrest is scary to me, because part of >what I do as a computer programmer is to try and uncover flaws in >similar products. Am I going to be jailed next?" > >The detainment quickly sparked a wave of "Free Dmitry" web sites, >listservs mailing campaigns, boycotts and, on Monday, street >demonstrations in over ten cities--including New York, where around 30 >protesters gathered in front of the New York Public Library. > >Yesterday's largest protest took place in San Jose, where over 100 >people gathered outside of Adobe's headquarters while, inside, company >executives held talks with the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), >an online civil liberties organization that supports Sklyarov. > >The dozen or so sysadmins, IT engineers and self-described hackers >outside of the FBI's Los Angeles headquarters--at the intersection of >Wilshire Boulevard and the 405 Freeway--received honks of support and >thumbs-ups from many passing cars, as well as perplexed gazes from >others. The demonstrators were, no doubt, pleased when late Monday >afternoon, Adobe abruptly reversed its position on the case and issued >a statement calling for the release of the jailed programmer. > >"We strongly support the DMCA and the enforcement of copyright >protection of digital content," said Adobe General Counsel Colleen >Pouliot in the statement. "However, the prosecution of this individual >in this particular case is not conducive to the best interests of any >of the parties involved or the industry." > > >Since the case is a criminal matter, not a civil one, Adobe's >about-face doesn't free Sklyarov. Regardless of whether or not the >company supports prosecution, Adobe is not a party in the legal >action, so the programmer's fate is now in the hands of federal law >enforcement agents. > >The DMCA outlaws the creation and distribution of technologies that >bypass copyright protections. The law's detractors argue that it >unconstitutionally restricts fair use and freedom of speech. > >"It's like they arrested him for the Adobe software's shortcomings," >said L.A.-based technical writer Mark Bilbo at the L.A. demonstration. >"I've made my living writing about software. If Sklyarov's prosecution >goes through, I can imagine a future where people who do the kind of >work I do would feel nervous about writing critical analyses of >products for fear they'd be violating the DMCA or some other obscure >license restriction they may never have heard of." > >"This takes away our right to do research and talk about it, and >education shouldn't be a crime," agreed L.A. protester Bob Smart, a >computer programmer. "The way law enforcement is approaching >Sklyarov's case reminds me a lot of the Kevin Mitnick case--whenever >the alleged violator you're talking about is perceived as a 'hacker,' >it seems like they operate with a completely different set of rules." > >If the continued heavy traffic on the "Free Dmitry" listserv is any >indication, Sklyarov's online supporters know their fight isn't over, >and plan to direct their next campaign to the attention of the FBI and >the Department of Justice. "Thank[s] for [your] support," read one >Tuesday morning post on the list, from an organizer of supporter site >freesklyarov.org. "Please be patient while we get our act together for >Round Two." > >The Daily made several attempts to contact the Russian Embassy and the >FBI for further information on Sklyarov's status. Neither organization >offered comment. > >Xeni Jardin is Rising Tide Studios' VP of Conferences and a Senior >Writer. > > >Feedback: letters@digitalcoastdaily.com From proclus at iname.com Tue Jul 24 17:59:13 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The OSCON sleeps on ... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724171213.00ab0120@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <200107250059.f6P0xG204357@moerbeke> On 24 Jul, Bob La Quey wrote: > San Diego is a beautiful place. Laying around in a first class hotel > by the bay, talking techie talk, drinking a cool beer afterward, ... > Well I suppose it is easy to see why the OSCON is somnolent. > > In private conversations with key figures in the Open Source Community > and from the Free Software Foundation, I find no special concern or > passion for this issue. More a matter of fact, business as usual, let > the EFF do it attitude. Dmitry Sklyarov is in jail and the Free/Open Source > software community is taking a "ho hum" attitude. If you are right, I think that it is very short-sided. It seems to me that if this can be done to a proprietary developer, it can be done worse to a free software developer. Anyways, _I'm here_, and what you are doing is appreciated. My interest is double, because I'm an academic also, who is developing a new Unix distro. The DMCA attacks speech, assembly, fair use rights, and academic freedom. We must put an end to it before it is too late, before it puts an end to free software and independent intellectual inquiry. FREE Dmitry! Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > Were this just another civil suit I could see that. But given the > egregious nature of the action precipitated by Adobe, and carried > out by the FBI, with the full sanction (apparently) of the DOJ one > must wonder at the laid back attitude. > > So it goes, > > > Bob La Quey > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From jono at microshaft.org Tue Jul 24 18:01:17 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The OSCON sleeps on ... In-Reply-To: <20010724175057.J14917@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 05:50:57PM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724171213.00ab0120@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> <20010724175057.J14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010724180117.B9566@networkcommand.com> Bob La Quey, Alan Cox resigned! Hello!???? On 24-Jul-2001, Seth David Schoen wrote: > Bob La Quey writes: > > > San Diego is a beautiful place. Laying around in a first class hotel > > by the bay, talking techie talk, drinking a cool beer afterward, ... > > Well I suppose it is easy to see why the OSCON is somnolent. > > > > In private conversations with key figures in the Open Source Community > > and from the Free Software Foundation, I find no special concern or > > passion for this issue. More a matter of fact, business as usual, let > > the EFF do it attitude. Dmitry Sklyarov is in jail and the Free/Open Source > > software community is taking a "ho hum" attitude. > > > > Were this just another civil suit I could see that. But given the > > egregious nature of the action precipitated by Adobe, and carried > > out by the FBI, with the full sanction (apparently) of the DOJ one > > must wonder at the laid back attitude. > > I've never been to OSCON, and I hear it's a good conference, but > certainly (like a few other conferences) it is pretty expensive and > most representation there is from businesses. > > In the LUGs around here I hear a _lot_ of concern. And most of the > most prominent people in the community have spoken out in public, all > the way to Alan Cox making a very dramatic statement. I could give a > number of other examples of Linux and free software people getting > involved. The San Jose event was listed by Rick Moen on the Bay Area > Linux Events page, and the co-ordinator on site was Don Marti, the > Vice President of SVLUG (the largest Bay Area LUG and allegedly the > largest LUG in the world). > > The FSF's _home page_ has a prominent news item about the arrest and > protests. And look at the top of Richard M. Stallman's personal home > page: > > The EFF has temporarily withdrawn from the protests against the arrest > of Russian programmer Dmitri Sklyarov, since Adobe's management has > bowed to pressure by agreeing to meet with the EFF. The anti-Adobe > protests may be rescheduled later if necessary, but on Monday, July 23 > there may still be demonstrations in many cities. Look here for the > one nearest you. This is still a good opportunity to speak out against > the DMCA, and in favor of freedom. > Sklyarov is a Russian programmer arrested, on a visit to the US, for > developing software that the US government doesn't want you to have. > Time was, the USSR imprisoned people for forbidden copying, and > American scientists and historians were arrested on absurd pretexts > when visiting the USSR. Now the tables have turned. > > It is extraordinary for Stallman to do anything to support a > proprietary software programmer or a proprietary software program. > > I don't agree with you; I think there's an unprecedented amount of > concern. I've attended most Bay Area rallies supported by the local > free software community (the Great Linux Revolt, Windows Refund > Day, the MPAA protest, and some others). Some of those events were > called for much more convenient times (not during most people's work > day), with much more notice and much better advance publicity. Yet > this event got a turnout comparable to the largest of those events, > and the presence in other cities was far and away better than Windows > Refund Day. > > I don't agree that the community isn't extremely concerned. In > regular life, we probably wouldn't care for Elcomsoft that much. But > this is really serious. "What do we want?" "Free Dmitry!" "When do > we want it?" "Yesterday!" > > -- > Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested > Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull > down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with > http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From proclus at iname.com Tue Jul 24 18:02:52 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What is up with Dmitry? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724173227.02e51660@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <200107250102.f6P12t204364@moerbeke> On 24 Jul, Bob La Quey wrote: > IANAL, so can someone knowledgeable explain to me. I read, > > > Mr. Sklyarov made his initial appearance in federal court in Las Vegas, > yesterday, July 16, 2001. Mr. Sklyarov was detained without bail and > ordered removed to the Northern District of California. No dates have > been set for the defendant's next appearance. > > > Who was Dmitry's attourney at this hearing? How would we find out? > > How long can he be detained before a new hearing must take place? > Is public notice of this hearing required? > > How would we find out when such a hearing would take place? I suspect that the answers to these questions may be the key to Dmitry's release. It has been almost a week, and we have heard almost nothing. It seems to me that the agents must have really dropped the ball, and they are trying to cover their butts now. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > > > Bob La Quey > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From warthawg at ecpi.com Tue Jul 24 18:06:24 2001 From: warthawg at ecpi.com (Joe Barr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The OSCON sleeps on ... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724171213.00ab0120@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724171213.00ab0120@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <20010724200624.4f8eedd6.warthawg@ecpi.com> Alan Cox. On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:32:04 -0700 Bob La Quey wrote: > San Diego is a beautiful place. Laying around in a first class hotel > by the bay, talking techie talk, drinking a cool beer afterward, ... > Well I suppose it is easy to see why the OSCON is somnolent. > > In private conversations with key figures in the Open Source Community > and from the Free Software Foundation, I find no special concern or > passion for this issue. More a matter of fact, business as usual, let > the EFF do it attitude. Dmitry Sklyarov is in jail and the Free/Open Source > software community is taking a "ho hum" attitude. > > Were this just another civil suit I could see that. But given the > egregious nature of the action precipitated by Adobe, and carried > out by the FBI, with the full sanction (apparently) of the DOJ one > must wonder at the laid back attitude. > > So it goes, > > > Bob La Quey > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- #=====================================================# # The words contained in this text may be read aloud. # #=====================================================# From declan at well.com Tue Jul 24 18:05:32 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What is up with Dmitry? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724173227.02e51660@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com>; from robertl1@home.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 05:34:31PM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724173227.02e51660@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <20010724210532.B1955@cluebot.com> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 05:34:31PM -0700, Bob La Quey wrote: > Who was Dmitry's attourney at this hearing? How would we find out? Read my articles? Wired.com, cluebot.com. -Declan From ed at hintz.org Tue Jul 24 18:07:56 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hrmm Message-ID: <200107250107.f6P17tc04406@phil.hintz.org> On 7/24/01 5:27 PM, sacraver@EE.Princeton.EDU thus spake: > Cripes, I thought you meant the California Highway Patrol. > > The images now in my head, of Ponch and John fighting cyber-crime > on their spiffy CHiPs motorcycles, will take great effort to > undo. If only it were so. Free or jailed, we'd have a definite answer in 49 minutes, just after DeVry offered us high paying careers in the exciting world of interstate trucking... Worst case scenario, we'd only wait 1 week (after a cliff hanger "to be continued" 1st episode)... ;-) Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 18:08:26 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hrmm In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010725010826.20319.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> LOL --- Xcott Craver wrote: > On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Len Sassaman wrote: > > > San Jose CHIP is supposedly in charge of the case > now. > > Cripes, I thought you meant the California Highway > Patrol. > > The images now in my head, of Ponch and John > fighting cyber-crime > on their spiffy CHiPs motorcycles, will take great > effort to > undo. > > -S > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 18:14:34 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What is up with Dmitry? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724173227.02e51660@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <20010725011434.32771.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com> whoever was up next at the public defender's office - the next appearance is in accordance with the federal rules of criminal procedure - it will be a preliminary hearing. the time frames are specified and subject to change by dima in connection with his counsel. note there are other procedures which may apply but the above is typical --- Bob La Quey wrote: > IANAL, so can someone knowledgeable explain to me. I > read, > > > Mr. Sklyarov made his initial appearance in federal > court in Las Vegas, > yesterday, July 16, 2001. Mr. Sklyarov was detained > without bail and > ordered removed to the Northern District of > California. No dates have > been set for the defendant's next appearance. > > > Who was Dmitry's attourney at this hearing? How > would we find out? > > How long can he be detained before a new hearing > must take place? > Is public notice of this hearing required? > > How would we find out when such a hearing would take > place? > > > Bob La Quey > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From jstyre at jstyre.com Tue Jul 24 18:14:25 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Generic reply to the "break into your house" comments In-Reply-To: References: <87zo9udj5o.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010724180320.00b22ee8@earthlink.net> At 07:21 PM 7/24/2001 -0400, Neon Samurai wrote: >On 24 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > > What the DMCA does not take into consideration is intent. In >order for one to be guilty of a crime, one needs to have committed the >actus reus (physical act) as well as have had the mens rea (mental element >or intent). It is understandable that copyright holders do not want their >copyrights infringed upon; however, creating legislation to the effect >that circumvention of any kind is illegal is absurd -- and this is what we >have with Dmitry's case. > > Surely, Dmitry did not have the intent of facillitating piracy, >and he should therefore not be held to any criminal charges; however, it >seems like prosecution vis-a-vis the DMCA has no consideration of the >accused's intent, and instead treats the act as a strict liability >offense, like a speeding ticket where guilt has nothing to do with whether >you intended to speed. > >Best, > >Alex >http://www.VerizonEatsPoop.com You're correct that DMCA, like most all criminal laws, carries with it an intent (mens rea) requirement, but you've misstated what that requirement is. The relevant intent is not the intent to break the law, but rather to do the act complained of. If I intended to do the act I did (and other conditions are met) then I can be held criminally liable even if I was ignorant of the fact that my act was illegal - ignorance of the law is no excuse. On the other hand, if I didn't intend to do the act, I somehow did it inadvertently, then I do not have the requisite intent, even if I knew that the act was illegal. This is how criminal law intent generally works, my statement is not specific to DMCA. "Some say that ignorance is bliss, while others opine that ignorance is no excuse. Therefore, I must conclude, bliss is no excuse." -- J.S. Tyre, at some point during his misspent youth -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Jul 24 18:20:21 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What is up with Dmitry? In-Reply-To: ; from admin@seattle-chat.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 05:43:22PM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724173227.02e51660@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <20010724182021.L14917@zork.net> Charles Eakins writes: > Find out the Case number, and call the Court house. It's possibly time for some of the people here who have PACER or LEXIS accounts to take another look for dockets, both in the Northern District of California and maybe in the District of Nevada. The complaint was for United States v. Dmitry Sklyarov in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California San Jose venue Case No. 5-01-257 July 7, 2001 before U.S. Magistrate Judge Patricia V. Trumbull Robyn also observed that the court web site shows schedules of judges -- I don't know if criminal arraignments will show up there. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From xeni at xeni.net Tue Jul 24 18:20:23 2001 From: xeni at xeni.net (Xeni Jardin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov's Whereabouts and L.A. Rally Coverage. In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010724175146.02dd0010@localhost> Message-ID: clarification: After Silicon Alley Reporter published this article, we learned that Mr. Sklyarov has apparently had an opportunity to speak to his wife by phone. A spokesperson from the US Attorney General's office in SF also told us they don't know where Sklyarov is at the moment, that the last they heard confirmation from the Marshals he was being held in Las Vegas. The spokesperson claimed they will likely only receive updated news of his whereabouts next when he has actually arrived in a California facility. Sklyarov's initial appearance would likely be scheduled within a day of his arrival, they said. Then, a detention hearing is held, during which the judge determines whether or not Sklyarov must continue to be held before further hearings. The spokesperson reiterated what's been reported elsewhere already -- the fact that Adobe has changed its stance doesn't stop the prosecution, since the criminal complaint was never theirs to withdraw and Adobe isn't a party to the case. But they added that prosecutors take into consideration all aspects of the case, including the fact that a victim no longer supports the prosecution. One would presume that the ongoing demonstrations and actions of the EFF do not go unnoticed. XJ From nick at zork.net Tue Jul 24 18:22:19 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big Brother is watching you In-Reply-To: <20010723223223.A21489@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com>; from rick@linuxmafia.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 10:32:23PM -0700 References: <20010723235545.17ac789f.warthawg@ecpi.com> <20010723223223.A21489@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20010724182219.V738@zork.net> I just had the pleasure of speaking with Rick Moen a few minutes ago, and expressed my admiration of this particular e-mail. Since it seems to have been a conversation-killer (I would presume due to its thoroughness), I thought I would reply to it here to remind people of the points it makes. For reference, the original can be read at http://zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/2001-July/001407.html Begin Rick Moen (who is by no means a lawyer) quotation: > The Sklyarov case is one of _criminal_ law, which is wholly > different. Perhaps people confuse the two because "B" is still > called the defendant, but "A" is relevant to the case, if at all, > only as a witness. This reminds me of the explanation of why the FBI wouldn't deal with Clifford Stoll in the beginning of The Cuckoo's Egg. Namely, the monetary damages he claimed were not above the (then) $5,000 threshold for investigation (let alone arrest). The FBI, when deciding whether or not to take a case, will try to evaluate whether or not they can get the Department of Justice to prosecute. The damages claimed have to be sufficiently high for this to happen. Most people who claim in the range of $10k-$100k will receive the superficial services of the Bureau during investigation, typically little more than a phone number and address to which information may be sent for consideration as evidence. Adobe, no doubt, claimed damages in the multi-millions. This puts them on the A-list for the case being heard. However, as Rick said, they're really just witnesses. They'll provide information, but do little else. In other words, Adobe are just a bunch of tattletales who are now begging for dad not to take the belt to their younger brother. > Stepping back from the legal framework for a moment, it's > interesting to note that Dmitry _absolutely_ qualifies as a > political prisoner. This sentence is right now second in line after the Pravda quotation for the honor of being in my .signature. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Jul 24 18:27:35 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [Fwd: Mueller confirmation hearing date] Message-ID: <20010724182735.M14917@zork.net> A list member wanted me to note that Mueller's hearing will be July 30: http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/07/18/fbi.mueller/ I think this has already been mentioned here. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From fred1 at inebraska.com Tue Jul 24 18:32:16 2001 From: fred1 at inebraska.com (Gary Dolan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: He's free.... In-Reply-To: <20010724.201557.-662957.0.jhclouse@juno.com> Message-ID: <3B5DDB50.5668.C93E73@localhost> On 24 Jul 2001, at 20:15, Jason H Clouse wrote: > 1d. Finally, in Western jurisprudence, only tangibles can be > owned as property. In other words, you can own a book but not the words > inside. Instead, you have a government-granted time-limited monopoly on > the copying of the information. Copyright and Patent laws have been > twisted into "property laws" over the years and the term has become > extremely long and renewable. > Much of what you say is an opinion about what the law ought to be. This, of course, does not affect the way the law actually is. However, the statement of yours I have quoted above is absolutely, incredibly, enormously wrong. Western jurisprudence does now and has long recognized intangible property. I am completely and totally against the current absurd prosecution of Dmitri. It represents a real problematic application of the criminal law, for any number of reasons. And we are seeing the mischief that comes from a poorly conceived bit of legislation. There are enough good arguments against this entire proceeding; leave the unsupportable arguments for the other side. From proclus at iname.com Tue Jul 24 18:32:59 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [Fwd: Mueller confirmation hearing date] In-Reply-To: <20010724182735.M14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <200107250133.f6P1X2204443@moerbeke> On 24 Jul, Seth David Schoen wrote: > A list member wanted me to note that Mueller's hearing will be July 30: > > http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/07/18/fbi.mueller/ > > I think this has already been mentioned here. > It could be that the administration is trying to keep this zipped up until _after_ the hearing. Sorry to be so paranoid. I'll shut up for a while now. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Jul 24 18:40:55 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The OSCON sleeps on ... In-Reply-To: <20010724175057.J14917@zork.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724171213.00ab0120@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> <20010724175057.J14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <87r8v5bxaw.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "SDS" == Seth David Schoen writes: SDS> In the LUGs around here I hear a _lot_ of concern. If I recall correctly, the San Diego LUG is very active and activist-oriented. http://www.sdlug.org/ I think there's also a San Diego BSD UG, which is located here: http://www.sdbug.org/ I don't know what the time frame is on OSCON, but it may be possible to contact SDLUG and SDBUG and get together an event before the end of the week. An announcement sent out tonight for, say, a Thursday lunch event would be ambitious but not unreasonable. Not to put too fine a point on it, but it may require some outreach from concerned individuals at OSCON... hint, hint. If OSCON folks are somnolent, they would probably benefit from a leafletting campaign at the convention center. The flyer we had on Monday was great -- another that emphasizes the importance of the issue to the Open Source movement might be even more effective. SDS> I don't agree that the community isn't extremely concerned. SDS> In regular life, we probably wouldn't care for Elcomsoft that SDS> much. The fact is that many if not most of the nationwide events were organized at least in part by Free Software advocates. We are here, and we're active. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From robertl1 at home.com Tue Jul 24 18:49:11 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The OSCON sleeps on ... In-Reply-To: <20010724175057.J14917@zork.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724171213.00ab0120@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010724171213.00ab0120@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724184702.036147c0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> At 05:50 PM 7/24/01 -0700, you wrote: >I don't agree that the community isn't extremely concerned. In >regular life, we probably wouldn't care for Elcomsoft that much. But >this is really serious. "What do we want?" "Free Dmitry!" "When do >we want it?" "Yesterday!" > >-- >Seth David Schoen I intended the scope of my statement to be applicable to the part of the community that the OSCON reperesents. I certainly should have made that more clear, although I though it was clear from the context. Thanks for the point, though. Bob La Quey From nick at zork.net Tue Jul 24 18:51:31 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [Fwd: Mueller confirmation hearing date] In-Reply-To: <20010724182735.M14917@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 06:27:35PM -0700 References: <20010724182735.M14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010724185131.B738@zork.net> Begin The ASCII Floating Head of Seth David Schoen quotation: > A list member wanted me to note that Mueller's hearing will be July 30: > http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/07/18/fbi.mueller/ from that URL: > > Ashcroft said he would meet with Mueller on a trip Friday to San > > Francisco where Mueller is U.S. attorney for northern California. > > > > Mueller is expected to join Ashcroft for a tour the same day of an > > unidentified Silicon Valley firm where the attorney general is > > scheduled to announce an electronic crime initiative. I would *love* to know *which* "Silicon Valley firm" this is. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Jul 24 18:52:44 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [Fwd: Mueller confirmation hearing date] In-Reply-To: <20010724185131.B738@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 06:51:31PM -0700 References: <20010724182735.M14917@zork.net> <20010724185131.B738@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010724185244.N14917@zork.net> Nick Moffitt writes: > > http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/07/18/fbi.mueller/ > > from that URL: > > > Ashcroft said he would meet with Mueller on a trip Friday to San > > > Francisco where Mueller is U.S. attorney for northern California. > > > > > > Mueller is expected to join Ashcroft for a tour the same day of an > > > unidentified Silicon Valley firm where the attorney general is > > > scheduled to announce an electronic crime initiative. > > I would *love* to know *which* "Silicon Valley firm" this is. Search for "Verisign" in the free-sklyarov archives. -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe From ausage at ausage.com Tue Jul 24 18:51:25 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Reply from the AAP Message-ID: <01072421512502.23294@frankie> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: RE: Arrest of Dimitri Sklyarov Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:32:54 -0400 From: Amy Gwiazdowski To: "'Andrew Lawrence'" Dear Mr. Lawrence: AAP stands by its press release of July 22 supporting the anticircumvention provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) and commending the Department of Justice for acting on its responsibility to enforce the DMCA in the matter of Dmitry Sklyarov. In response to those who attempt to justify circumventing, or trafficking in devices that circumvent, encryption and other technological measures that protect copyright in the digital environment, AAP urges them to carefully consider how their arguments would apply to precisely the same activities in connection with encryption and other technological measures used to protect privacy in that same environment. Amy Gwiazdowski AAP -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Lawrence [mailto:ausage@smoke-and-mirrors.net] Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 2:42 AM To: amyg@publishers.org Subject: Arrest of Dimitri Sklyarov I have just read the Press Release on your web site concerning the arrest of Mr. Sklyarov. What Mr Sklyarov did was perfectly legal where I live and Iin most countries in the world I consider it to a circumvention of restrictions againts legimate and fair use, to quote Adobe "To prevent unauthorized reading..." (Readme.htm file included with v2.2 of Adobe Acrobat eBook Reader). Correctly me if I am wrong, but I was always under the impression that as the purchaser of a book, I am the only person entitled to dermine who is "authorized to read it". The last time I read the Canadian Copyright Act, and even the DMCA, reading was NOT one of the rights reserved to authors. If I were to purchase an Adobe eBook, I would require Mr Sklarov's program to read it since my computer runs the Linux operating system and there is no eBook Reader for Linux. The bottom line. I have already informed Adobe that my company will no longer purchase Adobe products. Since you so strongly support Adobe in their assault against fair use, neither myself, my family nor my company will purchase works. electronic or paper, where the intelectual property rights are owned or controlled by members of the AAP, and I will strongly urge others to follow my example. This will be a considerable saving since my office budget is about $300/month for books and periodicals and my family budget about $50-100 for the same period. Furthermore, every time one of my programmers requests to purchase a book, I inform the publisher, and author if possible, why I am denying the purchase request. -- Andrew Lawrence President, Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 ------------------------------------------------------- From kreizykid at hotmail.com Tue Jul 24 18:57:56 2001 From: kreizykid at hotmail.com (Josiah Draper) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Free Sklyarov T-Shirts Message-ID: I'd be glad to help distribution in Utah. I don't live to far from Salt Lake City. And isn't it ironic that a bunch of companies- and i belive adobe themselves also do this- hire people to find security holes in their software, yet that is against the DMCA?? Here is my slogan :"The DMCA: "If I say that my software is secure and you prove me wrong you are going to jail" >From: "Charles Eakins" >To: "Tony Abou-Assaleh" , >sklyarov@zork.net> >Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Free Sklyarov T-Shirts >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 10:48:42 -0700 > >How about "The DMCA:Go to jail, for exercising free speech". > >-----Original Message----- >From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net >[mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Tony Abou-Assaleh >Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 10:11 AM >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Free Sklyarov T-Shirts > > >It could help educate the general public/spread the word if we have >some >T-Shirts with one of the common slogan that have been used in the >protests >and on the list. I suggest that the slogan on the T-Shirt be general >enough so that we can still use it after Dima (hopefully in the near >future) is freed. > >One possiblity is to have a global fund-raising t-shirt supplier. But >this >will contribute to the cost of the t-shirt through shipping costs. An >alternative is to have local protest organizers take advanced orders >(to >ensure they don't lose a lot of money) and offer shipments to cities >that >don't have organizers. > >Regards, > >TAA > >----------------------------------------------------- >Tony Abou-Assaleh >Graduate Student, Department of Computer Science >University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, Canada, N2L 3G1 >Office: DC2503 >Phone: (519) 888-4567 Ext. 3399 >Email: taa@acm.org >-----------------------[THE END]--------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From alansmitheee at hotmail.com Wed Jul 25 02:03:02 2001 From: alansmitheee at hotmail.com (Alan Smithee) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov's Whereabouts and L.A. Rally Coverage. Message-ID: I did some calling around today as well and I'd put odds that Dmitry is rotting in a Las Vegas city jail awaiting a grand jury in SF to return an indictment (or not). Tomorrow a congressman will call for his release. >From: "Xeni Jardin" >Reply-To: >To: "hackhawk" , >Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov's Whereabouts and L.A. Rally >Coverage. >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 18:20:23 -0700 > >clarification: After Silicon Alley Reporter published this article, we >learned that Mr. Sklyarov has apparently had an opportunity to speak >to his wife by phone. > >A spokesperson from the US Attorney General's office in SF also told >us they don't know where Sklyarov is at the moment, that the last they >heard confirmation from the Marshals he was being held in Las Vegas. >The spokesperson claimed they will likely only receive updated news of >his whereabouts next when he has actually arrived in a California >facility. > >Sklyarov's initial appearance would likely be scheduled within a day >of his arrival, they said. Then, a detention hearing is held, during >which the judge determines whether or not Sklyarov must continue to be >held before further hearings. > >The spokesperson reiterated what's been reported elsewhere already -- >the fact that Adobe has changed its stance doesn't stop the >prosecution, since the criminal complaint was never theirs to withdraw >and Adobe isn't a party to the case. > >But they added that prosecutors take into consideration all aspects of >the case, including the fact that a victim no longer supports the >prosecution. > >One would presume that the ongoing demonstrations and actions of the >EFF do not go unnoticed. > >XJ > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From freesk at hackhawk.net Tue Jul 24 19:06:42 2001 From: freesk at hackhawk.net (hackhawk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] PLEASE No Mitnick Comparisons!!! Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010724182845.00a8a050@localhost> I just read Declan McCullagh's article titled "Slyarov Release in Feds' Hands", and I was a little disturbed. Maybe it wasn't meant to be, but the following statement is a very negative reference in my mind. ================================================================ just as irate hackers once defaced websites with "Free Kevin" slogans -- a reference to convicted hacker-hero Kevin Mitnick -- some seem to be doing the same now with Sklyarov. ================================================================ I must admit I'm not 100% familiar with the details of Kevin Mitnicks troubles. But I DO know he had been accused of playing games with governement agencies and taunting them. What got him caught was playing games with a Security Professional who got ticked off enough to help authorities catch him. This is NOT the case with Dmitry at all. I believe that there is a far wider range of supporters for Dmitry. - hh From robertl1 at home.com Tue Jul 24 19:06:05 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:47 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: [free-sklyarov] The OSCON sleeps on ... Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724185916.036160e0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 18:49:11 -0700 >To: Seth David Schoen >From: Bob La Quey >Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] The OSCON sleeps on ... >Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net > >At 05:50 PM 7/24/01 -0700, you wrote: >>I don't agree that the community isn't extremely concerned. In >>regular life, we probably wouldn't care for Elcomsoft that much. But >>this is really serious. "What do we want?" "Free Dmitry!" "When do >>we want it?" "Yesterday!" >> >>-- >>Seth David Schoen > >I intended the scope of my statement to be applicable to the part >of the community that the OSCON reperesents. I certainly should have >made that more clear, although I though it was clear from the context. > >Thanks for the point, though. > >Bob La Quey Actually I really meant to go further and contrast the OSCON to what is going on elsewhere. I mean the OSCON is holding an "invitation only" "O'Reilly Summit on Open Source Strategies". Some of the people attending this "Summit" are quite well know in the community and seem rather unconcerned, again the attitude is "let the EFF do it". So again thnks Seth for providing the backdrop I was intending to paint the OSCON against. Bob La Quey From doug at mcnaught.org Tue Jul 24 19:07:25 2001 From: doug at mcnaught.org (Doug McNaught) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Reply from the AAP In-Reply-To: Andrew Lawrence's message of "Tue, 24 Jul 2001 21:51:25 -0400" References: <01072421512502.23294@frankie> Message-ID: Andrew Lawrence writes: > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > Subject: RE: Arrest of Dimitri Sklyarov > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:32:54 -0400 > From: Amy Gwiazdowski > To: "'Andrew Lawrence'" > > > In response to those who attempt to justify circumventing, or trafficking in > devices that circumvent, encryption and other technological measures that > protect copyright in the digital environment, AAP urges them to carefully > consider how their arguments would apply to precisely the same activities in > connection with encryption and other technological measures used to protect > privacy in that same environment. Strawman. Notice also her complete neglect of any points or issues related to fair use. -- Free Dmitry Sklyarov! http://www.freesklyarov.org/ From nick at zork.net Tue Jul 24 19:12:22 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:47 2005 Subject: [nylug-talk] RE: [free-sklyarov] any New York action planned? In-Reply-To: <87n15uhll7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:45:08PM -0700 References: <87n15uhll7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010724191221.A16094@zork.net> Begin Klepht quotation: > >>>>> "JS" == Jay Sulzberger writes: > JS> I think in New York we may protest Mondays at the New York > JS> Public Library. > Not that I'd tell you what to do or anything... but aren't you a > little worried that if you make it a regular thing, it'll get stale > real fast? Yeah. I mean, I hate Mondays as much as the next guy, but do you really need to protest them? -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From declan at well.com Tue Jul 24 19:24:36 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] PLEASE No Mitnick Comparisons!!! In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010724182845.00a8a050@localhost>; from freesk@hackhawk.net on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 07:06:42PM -0700 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010724182845.00a8a050@localhost> Message-ID: <20010724222436.A4728@cluebot.com> The comparison was to the "irate hackers" doing defacements in both cases. A secondary comparison was to both Mitnick and Sklyarov both being hacker-heroes. I didnn't compare the "offenses" of both Mitnick and Sklyarov, nor would I. I don't recall all the details of Micnick's case, but the analog of breaking and entering and trespass seems to enter into it. What Sklyarov did was simply write code (and, perhaps, talk about it). -Declan On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 07:06:42PM -0700, hackhawk wrote: > I just read Declan McCullagh's article titled "Slyarov Release in Feds' > Hands", and I was a little disturbed. > > Maybe it wasn't meant to be, but the following statement is a very negative > reference in my mind. > ================================================================ > just as irate hackers once defaced websites with "Free Kevin" slogans -- a > reference to convicted > hacker-hero Kevin Mitnick -- some seem to be doing the same now with Sklyarov. > ================================================================ > > I must admit I'm not 100% familiar with the details of Kevin Mitnicks > troubles. But I DO know he had been accused of playing games with > governement agencies and taunting them. What got him caught was playing > games with a Security Professional who got ticked off enough to help > authorities catch him. This is NOT the case with Dmitry at all. I believe > that there is a far wider range of supporters for Dmitry. > > - hh > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Jul 24 19:24:41 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] PLEASE No Mitnick Comparisons!!! In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010724182845.00a8a050@localhost> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010724182845.00a8a050@localhost> Message-ID: <87hew1bv9y.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "h" == hackhawk writes: h> Maybe it wasn't meant to be, but the following statement is a h> very negative reference in my mind. DM> just as irate hackers once defaced websites with "Free Kevin" DM> slogans -- a reference to convicted hacker-hero Kevin Mitnick DM> -- some seem to be doing the same now with Sklyarov. Well, it's the truth, so there's no reason for Declan not to put it in his article. Remember that despite his sympathy with our cause, he's a journalist, not a propagandist. He's not obliged to leave out details of this case in order to convert people to our cause. You should also note that he didn't compare Dmitry to Kevin, but the site defacements in support of Dmitry with those in support of Kevin. h> I believe that there is a far wider range of supporters for h> Dmitry. That's true. There are two ways to look at this: 1) Having hackers and the word "hacker" involved with this movement is bad publicity and we should discourage it as much as possible. 2) There's a very large hacker community out there, which is increasingly active and vocal. Most are very intelligent, and many are well versed in the fine points of computer law and the DMCA. They are an important part of the overall Free Dmitry community. I completely understand the misgivings of some people around hacktivist involvement, but personally I think there's good numbers in the hacker world. At least where legal means are used (such as joining in protests), we should welcome the help. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From tabindak at best.com Tue Jul 24 19:26:18 2001 From: tabindak at best.com (Tabinda N. Khan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [Antipiracy@fox.com: [SECURITY] Internet Piracy of Planet of the Apes] Message-ID: <20010724192617.B19050@shell9.ba.best.com> Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to post the whole thing. I received it today. I don't how they got my name, specifically. I'm not an ISP. Tabinda ----- Forwarded message from Antipiracy@fox.com ----- Subject: [SECURITY] Internet Piracy of Planet of the Apes July 23, 2001 Via E-Mail Re: Internet Piracy of Planet of the Apes Dear Colleagues: We at Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation ("Fox") are writing to ask for your help and cooperation in the protection of our upcoming highly-anticipated motion picture, Planet of the Apes. Fox is the copyright owner and owner of exclusive distribution rights in all media, including the Internet, to this motion picture, which is being released in the United States and certain other countries on July 27, 2001. Some pre-release screenings are already taking place. As you are likely aware, technological developments currently allow the seriously detrimental and widespread infringement of intellectual property via the unauthorized electronic dissemination of films over the Internet. As widely reported in the media, up to 1 million illegal copies of first-run movies are now available on the Internet. Fox, in cooperation with the Motion Picture Association of America ("MPAA"), the U.S. Department of Justice and the FBI, is working to combat piracy of films on the Internet. We hope to be able to count on your assistance as well. We anticipate a high volume of Internet piracy of Planet of the Apes. Illegal film footage posted and/or available for download on the Internet is usually sourced from video recordings made in movie theaters and digitally transferred into electronic video formats. As Fox is making every effort to aggressively battle Internet piracy, it is likely that you will notice an increase in the volume of correspondence which you receive from Fox and/or from the MPAA. Therefore, we would like to take this opportunity to introduce you to the department responsible for combating this issue at Fox which is authorized to act on behalf of Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation, the copyright owner of Planet of the Apes. Our contact information is: Fox Intellectual Property Department (310) 369-4260 antipiracy@fox.com Working with you and our other partners, we hope to be able to identify and remove infringing files quickly. The Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA") and other civil and criminal statutes provide for severe penalties (including prison sentences of up to 10 years, forfeiture of equipment, and fines of up to $2 million per incident) against persons who record and post pirated copies of films on the Internet. We intend to pursue and prosecute infringers to the fullest extent possible in conjunction with the MPAA, the FBI, the Department of Justice, and through civil lawsuits. Congress included mechanisms in the DMCA which are designed to allow copyright owners to prevent and prosecute infringement of their rights on the Internet. The DMCA requires copyright owners to notify you, as the Internet Service Provider, of infringing activities, and imposes the obligation on ISPs to act expeditiously to remove or disable access to infringing materials. This letter is intended, in part, to give you advance information that you will be receiving additional notices pursuant to the DMCA from Fox, its representatives or the MPAA. We trust that we will be able to count on your prompt action in response to such notices requesting you to disable such infringing postings and/or downloads and stop the infringement of our rights. The posting and/or dissemination of unauthorized copies/recordings of all or part of a copyrighted film on the Internet (excluding trailers authorized and licensed for such use) infringes the copyrights in both the motion picture and the soundtrack. Fox, as owner of all rights relating to Planet of the Apes, has not authorized any distribution of the motion picture or its soundtrack over the Internet. We, therefore, have a good faith belief that any Internet postings of such video and/or audio materials constitute infringement. As you become aware or are notified of them, please remove any such postings that are accessible on or through your system or network, accessed by users through your system or network, or located using your information location tools, and disable access to any sites fulfilling these criteria. This letter provides you with information regarding our rights and of the fact that we have not authorized any Internet distribution of Planet of the Apes or other films. We would greatly appreciate your assistance in our fight against Internet piracy. We hope that you will help us by using all information location tools available to you to identify such infringing material and that you will immediately remove any such postings or disable access to any location where the infringing activities described herein are or will be occurring. Please try to expeditiously remove infringing postings and/or disable access to infringing material of which you become or are made aware. We may contact you in the coming weeks, as specific examples of infringing activity accessible on or through your network or system come to our attention, and we will reiterate our request that such items be removed or disabled immediately. Please keep in mind that extremely prompt action is and will continue to be necessary in order to prevent the widespread proliferation of infringing copies of Planet of the Apes. Since Fox has not authorized the sale of any promotional items, including press kits, we may also need your assistance in stopping the sale of such items, as well as production items. The information provided in this letter is provided under penalty of perjury. We look forward to working with you. Please contact us if you have any questions, or to provide us with updated contact information for your company. Sincerely, Fox Group Intellectual Property Department cc: Motion Picture Association of America -- ----- End forwarded message ----- _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov ----- End forwarded message ----- -- From mickeym at mindspring.com Tue Jul 24 19:17:24 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (Mickey McGown) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Reply from the AAP References: <01072421512502.23294@frankie> Message-ID: <3B5E2C33.C7514FE6@mindspring.com> > AAP urges them to carefully consider how their arguments would apply to precisely the same > activities in connection with encryption and other technological measures used to > protect privacy in that same environment. > This is pretty much the "lock on my house" bit... mickeym From jono at microshaft.org Tue Jul 24 19:27:43 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Reply from the AAP In-Reply-To: ; from doug@mcnaught.org on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 10:07:25PM -0400 References: <01072421512502.23294@frankie> Message-ID: <20010724192743.C9566@networkcommand.com> Can someone tell this lady we welcome someone testing a "measure" used to protect privacy so that we actually know it works? Can you also point her to the RSA Cracking Challege going on right now? Can you also mention that the weak protection on eBooks will result in a higher rate of piracy? I'm really tired and fed up with this stupidity. It's called cryptography and when the government wants to create a new crypto standard, reasearchers ATTACK IT! The result is Blowfish, Rinjael, etc. On 24-Jul-2001, Doug McNaught wrote: > Andrew Lawrence writes: > > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > Subject: RE: Arrest of Dimitri Sklyarov > > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:32:54 -0400 > > From: Amy Gwiazdowski > > To: "'Andrew Lawrence'" > > > > > > In response to those who attempt to justify circumventing, or trafficking in > > devices that circumvent, encryption and other technological measures that > > protect copyright in the digital environment, AAP urges them to carefully > > consider how their arguments would apply to precisely the same activities in > > connection with encryption and other technological measures used to protect > > privacy in that same environment. > > Strawman. > > Notice also her complete neglect of any points or issues related to > fair use. > > > -- > Free Dmitry Sklyarov! > http://www.freesklyarov.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From pmasloch at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 19:31:45 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] PLEASE No Mitnick Comparisons!!! In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010724182845.00a8a050@localhost> Message-ID: You are right, Kevin played this games. However, the point of Kevin's story was that he was sitting in jail for 2 years without bail or trail. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org I just read Declan McCullagh's article titled "Slyarov Release in Feds' Hands", and I was a little disturbed. Maybe it wasn't meant to be, but the following statement is a very negative reference in my mind. ================================================================ just as irate hackers once defaced websites with "Free Kevin" slogans -- a reference to convicted hacker-hero Kevin Mitnick -- some seem to be doing the same now with Sklyarov. ================================================================ I must admit I'm not 100% familiar with the details of Kevin Mitnicks troubles. But I DO know he had been accused of playing games with governement agencies and taunting them. What got him caught was playing games with a Security Professional who got ticked off enough to help authorities catch him. This is NOT the case with Dmitry at all. I believe that there is a far wider range of supporters for Dmitry. - hh _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From spider at sneakybastard.com Tue Jul 24 19:31:00 2001 From: spider at sneakybastard.com (Sonia =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ara=F1a?=) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The AAP canned response Message-ID: I sent email to Amy Gwiazdowski, someone responsible for the press releases on the AAP's web site, under two different names. Both letters, despite raising different issues, got this response: * * * AAP stands by its press release of July 22 supporting the anticircumvention provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) and commending the Department of Justice for acting on its responsibility to enforce the DMCA in the matter of Dmitry Sklyarov. In response to those who attempt to justify circumventing, or trafficking in devices that circumvent, encryption and other technological measures that protect copyright in the digital environment, AAP urges them to carefully consider how their arguments would apply to precisely the same activities in connection with encryption and other technological measures used to protect privacy in that same environment. Amy Gwiazdowski AAP From robertl1 at home.com Tue Jul 24 19:40:30 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What is up with Dmitry? In-Reply-To: <20010724210532.B1955@cluebot.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724173227.02e51660@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010724173227.02e51660@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724193729.0224f290@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> At 09:05 PM 7/24/01 -0400, you wrote: >On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 05:34:31PM -0700, Bob La Quey wrote: >> Who was Dmitry's attourney at this hearing? How would we find out? > >Read my articles? Wired.com, cluebot.com. > >-Declan OK, found it Rene Valladares, a federal public defender in Las Vegas, said he appeared with Sklyarov around 3 p.m. in court Monday for an extradition and bail hearing. He said that his client would be moved in the next two weeks to the San Jose and San Francisco area where a judge would determine if he needs a public defender So presumably this Rene Valladares has access to Dmitry? And presumably Dmitry can communicate with the outside world thru this lawyer? Is that how it works? Thanks, Declan. Bob La Quey From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Jul 24 19:43:20 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The OSCON sleeps on ... In-Reply-To: <87r8v5bxaw.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724171213.00ab0120@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> <20010724175057.J14917@zork.net> <87r8v5bxaw.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <87elr5buev.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "K" == Klepht writes: K> An announcement sent out tonight for, say, a Thursday lunch K> event would be ambitious but not unreasonable. "If you keep your spirit correct from morning to night, accustomed to the idea of death and resolved on death, and consider yourself as a dead body, thus becoming one with the Way of the warrior, you can pass through life with no possibility of failure and perform your office properly." -- "Hakagure" (Also, "Ghost Dog" B-) I think I've already mentioned my ideas about the Way of the Event Samurai, but I think I'll say them again. First and foremost you have to come to terms with having your event fail miserably. With standing alone, in your underwear, in the rain, crying. With having that very attractive MOTS (or MOSS, your call), who you've been secretly pining over for years, walk by you in your big dumb topical sandwich board or silly hat and give you a look that says you're absolutely, positively NEVER going to be an attractive person in any sense of the word. With having no one around to take your poorly-made flyers or even look at your soggy rain-soaked cardboard sign. With having riot troops with blue visored helmets and clear plastic shields come marching down the street at you, despite all the proper permits and exemplary behavior, throwing big heavy tear gas cannisters clonking into your head, zapping you with cattle prods and tasers, dragging you behind the paddy wagon like a rag doll, and then dropping you into some oubliette from which you will never return. Only when you have faced complete and total event failure will you be able to make event success happen with confidence. You can use that confidence to send out _announcements_, and not _feelers_ like, "Is anyone interested..." or "Will anyone come...". Because you don't care if anyone will come. Rather, "This event will happen here, at this time, and we will do X, Y and Z." The only thing I know about events is this: people ignore questions and respond to announcements. "Putting out feelers" must be done in private and only to avoid holding an event at some catastrophic time or place. Once you're even vaguely confident, you should announce, announce, announce. This is the Way of the Event Samurai. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From freesk at hackhawk.net Tue Jul 24 20:06:13 2001 From: freesk at hackhawk.net (hackhawk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] PLEASE No Mitnick Comparisons!!! In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010724182845.00a8a050@localhost> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010724195156.02a44d40@localhost> At 10:31 PM 7/24/01 -0400, Peter wrote: >You are right, Kevin played this games. However, the point of Kevin's >story was that he was sitting in jail for 2 years without bail or trail. I knew he was mistreated by the system somehow. That's definately overkill for someone who was just playing games. I believe I understood how Declan meant the line to be read, that's why I said "wasn't meant to be [negative]". The thing that worried me was that Dmitry and Kevin are/were hacker-hero's of a different sort. The general masses may not realize that. Here's part of the problem.... #1 & #2 of the Hacker definition on dictionary.com hack?er1 (hkr) n. Informal 1.One who is proficient at using or programming a computer; a computer buff. 2.One who uses programming skills to gain illegal access to a computer network or file. - hh >I just read Declan McCullagh's article titled "Slyarov Release in Feds' >Hands", and I was a little disturbed. > >Maybe it wasn't meant to be, but the following statement is a very >negative >reference in my mind. >================================================================ >just as irate hackers once defaced websites with "Free Kevin" slogans -- >a >reference to convicted >hacker-hero Kevin Mitnick -- some seem to be doing the same now with >Sklyarov. >================================================================ > >I must admit I'm not 100% familiar with the details of Kevin Mitnicks >troubles. But I DO know he had been accused of playing games with >governement agencies and taunting them. What got him caught was playing >games with a Security Professional who got ticked off enough to help >authorities catch him. This is NOT the case with Dmitry at all. I >believe >that there is a far wider range of supporters for Dmitry. > >- hh > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From declan at well.com Tue Jul 24 20:03:07 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What is up with Dmitry? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724193729.0224f290@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> References: <20010724210532.B1955@cluebot.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010724173227.02e51660@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010724173227.02e51660@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010724230115.020065c0@mail.well.com> At 07:40 PM 7/24/01 -0700, Bob La Quey wrote: >So presumably this Rene Valladares has access to Dmitry? Presumably, though he's probably moved on to his next client and is busy with him. Then again, the local AUSA says that anyone who walks up to the jail (assuming you know which one) can ask to see any prisoner. I've covered my share of jail-prison cases, but I defer to anyone who knows the Las Vegas situation firsthand. -Declan From sklyarov at lethe.com Tue Jul 24 20:11:00 2001 From: sklyarov at lethe.com (Kevin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The OSCON sleeps on ... References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724171213.00ab0120@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com><20010724175057.J14917@zork.net><87r8v5bxaw.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <87elr5buev.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <020d01c114b7$73706140$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> This brings up an (almost) entirely off-topic question. Are there any Free or free English translations of Hagakure available online? Free Dmitry you dumb son-of-a-bitch. - Joe Pesci, Lethal Weapon 2 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Klepht" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] The OSCON sleeps on ... > >>>>> "K" == Klepht writes: > > K> An announcement sent out tonight for, say, a Thursday lunch > K> event would be ambitious but not unreasonable. > > "If you keep your spirit correct from morning to night, > accustomed to the idea of death and resolved on death, and > consider yourself as a dead body, thus becoming one with the > Way of the warrior, you can pass through life with no > possibility of failure and perform your office properly." > > -- "Hakagure" > (Also, "Ghost Dog" B-) > > I think I've already mentioned my ideas about the Way of the Event > Samurai, but I think I'll say them again. First and foremost you have > to come to terms with having your event fail miserably. > > With standing alone, in your underwear, in the rain, crying. > > With having that very attractive MOTS (or MOSS, your call), who you've > been secretly pining over for years, walk by you in your big dumb > topical sandwich board or silly hat and give you a look that says > you're absolutely, positively NEVER going to be an attractive person > in any sense of the word. > > With having no one around to take your poorly-made flyers or even look > at your soggy rain-soaked cardboard sign. > > With having riot troops with blue visored helmets and clear plastic > shields come marching down the street at you, despite all the proper > permits and exemplary behavior, throwing big heavy tear gas cannisters > clonking into your head, zapping you with cattle prods and tasers, > dragging you behind the paddy wagon like a rag doll, and then dropping > you into some oubliette from which you will never return. > > Only when you have faced complete and total event failure will you be > able to make event success happen with confidence. > > You can use that confidence to send out _announcements_, and not > _feelers_ like, "Is anyone interested..." or "Will anyone > come...". Because you don't care if anyone will come. Rather, "This > event will happen here, at this time, and we will do X, Y and Z." > > The only thing I know about events is this: people ignore questions > and respond to announcements. "Putting out feelers" must be done in > private and only to avoid holding an event at some catastrophic time > or place. Once you're even vaguely confident, you should announce, > announce, announce. > > This is the Way of the Event Samurai. > > ~Klepht > > -- > klepht@eleutheria.org > http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From tim at epicgames.com Tue Jul 24 20:42:51 2001 From: tim at epicgames.com (Tim Sweeney) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Publishers Hail Government Action Against Russian Ebook Hackers References: <10672D1FF79DD41184A900508B8B3C9A02B959@PUBLISHER1> Message-ID: <007f01c114bb$e4bb13f0$f92b1bd8@timxp> Thank you for the response, but by drawing a loose analogy to privacy, you are ignoring the key issues of freedom and consumer rights at stake here. Software used for circumventing copy-protection has many legitimate uses, such as allowing users to excercise their fair-use rights to a work. For example, my company develops computer games. We copy-protect our games using the SafeDisc copy-protection scheme. Many of our honest customers use a utility which breaks the copy-protection scheme as a convenience and so that they can make the one backup copy they are legally entitled to make under the fair use doctrine. The DMCA deprives Americans of these fair-use rights, and is being used aggressively by corporate interests to suppress academic research and development of useful software. It is extremely ironic that an association of publishers -- who have traditionally been such strong supporters of freedom -- could be so ANTI-freedom on an issue like this. Perhaps the AAP only supports freedom when your members stand to immediately gain from it financially? Many of your member organizations, such as the Association of Computing Machinery (ACM) have come out publically against the DMCA precisely because it deprives Americans of important freedoms. Why did the AAP not consult its membership before issuing this press release? I beg you please to reconsider the AAP's stance on this oppressive law. -Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: Amy Gwiazdowski To: 'Tim Sweeney' Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 2:34 PM Subject: RE: Publishers Hail Government Action Against Russian Ebook Hackers Dear Tim: AAP stands by its press release of July 22 supporting the anticircumvention provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) and commending the Department of Justice for acting on its responsibility to enforce the DMCA in the matter of Dmitry Sklyarov. In response to those who attempt to justify circumventing, or trafficking in devices that circumvent, encryption and other technological measures that protect copyright in the digital environment, AAP urges them to carefully consider how their arguments would apply to precisely the same activities in connection with encryption and other technological measures used to protect privacy in that same environment. Amy Gwiazdowski AAP -----Original Message----- From: Tim Sweeney [mailto:tim@epicgames.com] Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 6:26 PM To: amyg@publishers.org Subject: Publishers Hail Government Action Against Russian Ebook Hackers Hi Amy, Do you really want your children grow up in a world where academic researchers live in fear of having their research -- and their freedom -- suppressed by corporate interests? When they ask you, "Mommy, tell us about the days when people were allowed to program computers!", remember the role your organization played here. -Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010724/00d74252/attachment.htm From jhclouse at juno.com Tue Jul 24 21:02:24 2001 From: jhclouse at juno.com (Jason H Clouse) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: He's free.... Message-ID: <20010725.000225.-717125.0.jhclouse@juno.com> <> Kind of depends on what you mean. The fact of the matter is that any law passed by the national legislature that addresses Copyright or Patent in this manner is in violation of the Constitution by exceeding the enumerated powers. Congress was only given permission to pass laws granting a time-limited monopoly right to authors and inventors and NOT to grant a property right in this matter. Furthermore, *ownership* of the expression of ideas is a patently (if you'll pardon the pun) silly notion. BTW, I'm a musician--I definitely stand to gain from the ownership of expression; but not much more than I do from a limited monopoly right. <> Certainly this matter is heavily based on who you talk to. I can't see any sensible reason to consider intangibles to be property. Nevertheless, if you have any good arguments for it I'd certainly be willing to hear them. <> Agreed. J ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From jimmy at underthestairs.com Tue Jul 24 21:23:45 2001 From: jimmy at underthestairs.com (Jimmy Alderson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: He's free.... References: <20010725.000225.-717125.0.jhclouse@juno.com> Message-ID: <012a01c114c1$982a30b0$8957a4d8@compugenx.com> "That ideas should spread from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them , like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density at any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of confinement or exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property." -Thomas Jefferson ----- Original Message ----- From: Jason H Clouse To: Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 12:02 AM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Re: He's free.... > <> > > Kind of depends on what you mean. The fact of the matter is that any law > passed by the national legislature that addresses Copyright or Patent in > this manner is in violation of the Constitution by exceeding the > enumerated powers. Congress was only given permission to pass laws > granting a time-limited monopoly right to authors and inventors and NOT > to grant a property right in this matter. Furthermore, *ownership* of > the expression of ideas is a patently (if you'll pardon the pun) silly > notion. BTW, I'm a musician--I definitely stand to gain from the > ownership of expression; but not much more than I do from a limited > monopoly right. > > < property.>> > > Certainly this matter is heavily based on who you talk to. I can't see > any sensible reason to consider intangibles to be property. > Nevertheless, if you have any good arguments for it I'd certainly be > willing to hear them. > > < the unsupportable arguments for the other side.>> > > Agreed. > > J > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jim at media.mit.edu Tue Jul 24 21:25:25 2001 From: jim at media.mit.edu (Jim Youll) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: Arrest of Dimitri Sklyarov Message-ID: <200107250424.AAA23739@dns1.newmediagroup.com> Ms. Gwiazdowski: As a researcher who has invested considerable effort in the study and design of privacy and security applications, I wish to offer one answer to the challenge you pose in your reply to Mr. Lawrence when you write, "In response to those who attempt to justify circumventing... encryption... AAP urges them to carefully consider how their arguments would apply... in connection with... technological measures used to protect privacy." In the design of any privacy mechanism, we fail miserably if we are too selfsure to acknowledge that (1) certain absolute protections simply cannot be delivered - therefore we must act responsibly when setting expectations and (2) in those cases where very good technological protections are actually possible, we must take care to avoid naive implementation errors that would allow a determined party to circumvent those protections. If you are not familiar with current practice in cryptography, I refer you to the work of Bruce Schneier, one of the world's foremost cryptographers and most credible authors on the subject, whose writings are freely available at http://www.counterpane.com/labs.html. There you will discover some long-standing facts that will no doubt shock and alarm you, including publicly accessible records of the common (and time tested) practice by which aggressive peer review and "cracking" (and public revelation of those "cracks") are the norm for establishing the trustworthiness of encryption systems. Good cryptography is an art form. Its prominent practitioners are mathematicians, theoreticians and thinkers of the highest caliber. Yet their work consists to no small extent of the design and testing of "cracks" of existing cryptographic systems. Why? Because no matter how many laws are passed, or how badly you may _wish_ that bad guys will leave your systems alone, a determined intruder will find a way in if there is one. And a system that is protected only by law and not by true security is not protected at all. As well, I believe Schneier has suggested that a good way to learn how to create a good encryption system is to break a bad one. To directly address your "challenge" regarding privacy, the revelation of the content of a personal-data privacy system may be assumed to be, prima facie, a significantly more damaging act than the revelation of a commercial electronic book. Nonetheless, the general revelation of much private personal data is not criminally actionable, yet you imply that society will be somehow damaged in the event that a stray copy of "Judaism and Vegetarianism: New Revised Edition" should somehow work its way loose from the grasp of these overdesigned and undersecured machines. I further remind you that the doctrine of "Fair Use," while not explicitly defined as a consumer "right" in extant law, is nonetheless a long-standing principle that has proven rather significant in the growth of the arts and academic advancement. As well, "fair use" is in fact a right under the law of other nations. I find it shocking to think that any but the most arrogant, greedy publisher would explicitly endorse a technology that: (1) makes it impossible to move a purchased copy of a book from one personal reading device (a desktop computer) to another (a laptop computer) (2) makes it impossible for blind or otherwise differently-abled people to "access" the book using any device and method that is most suited to their personal circumstances - a device of their own choosing that should be able to read popular unencrypted file formats (3) so absolutely subverts fair use that even the extraction of a small block of content for purposes of quotation (as I have copied your quote below) is made impossible (4) interferes with the ordinary, socially-beneficial activity of libraries to such a degree that within the DMCA, librarians are expressly permitted to attempt to "crack" access-control schemes to recover a work for the sole purpose of determining whether they wish to purchase a copy for their collection or not The AAP seems to suggest that a substantial portion of the e-book-reading public consists of thieves and cheats. The simple fact is that the piracy that should matter to you, is that piracy which is carried out by professionals having unlimited resources and mass distribution channels, not by parents who download books and then wish to move them to their children's computers, nor by those who need to access the books by "unconventional" means such as braille output devices and specialized screen readers, nor by researchers attempting to exercise their "fair use" rights. How long do you suppose it will be, Dmitry or no, before the professional e-book pirates begin re-keying the text of books, pasting in screen shots and stamping out their goods? Months? How long before they hire a in-house staff of "hackers" to tear these weak methods to shreds and proceed with mass production, unimpeded by either American law or your personal indignation? If the encryption is weak, it will be broken. I suppose you may wish to argue that a substantial portion of the e-book-reading public is not in fact composed of thieves and cheats, in which case I must complain that if a small number of e-book holders are in fact passing around unauthorized copies, then the actual damages incurred, if any, must represent an insignificant proportion of all sales. If that is the case, then the extreme measures of customer-hostile copy protection on every single e-book (and the over-the-top extreme of criminal prosecution for contributory acts) cannot be justified as an economic necessity. I'll leave you with a brief (fair use-sized) excerpt from "How I Became a Printer in Philadelphia", by Benjamin Franklin, with thanks to http://www.ukans.edu/carrie/docs/texts/franklin_how.html From a child I was fond of reading, and all the little money that came into my hands was ever laid out in books. Pleased with the Pilgrim's Progress, my first collection was of John Bunyan's works in separate little volumes. I afterward sold them to enable me to buy R. Burton's Historical Collections; they were small chapmen's books, and cheap, 40 or 50 in all... This bookish inclination at length determined my father to make me a printer... Benjamin Franklin, one of this country's most important publishers and thinkers, became who he was due in no small part to the ready availability of inexpensive books that he could resell in order to acquire more books... this option would not have been available to him under the current "lockdown" regime of the e-book systems you apparently endorse. The behavior of the AAP smacks of a cash grab. It is insulting to the long history of writing and publishing in America by people who cared about the readers more than they cared about extracting every available bit of their readers' money. Sincerely, Jim Youll >Subject: RE: Arrest of Dimitri Sklyarov >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:32:54 -0400 >From: Amy Gwiazdowski >To: "'Andrew Lawrence'" > > >Dear Mr. Lawrence: > >AAP stands by its press release of July 22 supporting the anticircumvention >provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) and commending the >Department of Justice for acting on its responsibility to enforce the DMCA >in the matter of Dmitry Sklyarov. > >In response to those who attempt to justify circumventing, or trafficking in >devices that circumvent, encryption and other technological measures that >protect copyright in the digital environment, AAP urges them to carefully >consider how their arguments would apply to precisely the same activities in >connection with encryption and other technological measures used to protect >privacy in that same environment. > >Amy Gwiazdowski >AAP -- http://www.media.mit.edu/~jim research assistant . software agents group . e-markets sig mit media lab . cambridge, ma Free Dmitry Sklyarov ... Boycott Adobe Systems ... http://freesklyarov.org/ From snair at utstar.com Tue Jul 24 21:30:26 2001 From: snair at utstar.com (Sreeni R. Nair) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The second round begins ... Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010725003000.00aedd48@mail.utstar.com> http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010724_eff_mueller_letter.html The ordinary man acts because he thinks his act will be profitable; the superior man, however, acts because he thinks his act is right. -- Confucius From dmarti at zgp.org Tue Jul 24 21:41:35 2001 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [Antipiracy@fox.com: [SECURITY] Internet Piracy of Planet of the Apes] In-Reply-To: <20010724192617.B19050@shell9.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <20010724214135.A24656@zgp.org> begin Tabinda Khan quotation of Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 07:26:18PM -0700: > Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to post the whole thing. > I received it today. I don't how they got my name, > specifically. I'm not an ISP. The absence of headers implies a crude script. I've seen copies of the "somebody, somewhere might put Planet of the Apes on the net" mail forwarded to other lists, but I haven't gotten it. Hard to say if they're mining this list for recipients, unless Seth has a secret "this-list-only" address he isn't telling us about (and shouldn't, for it to work.) -- Don Marti Free Dmitry! http://zgp.org/~dmarti Monday, July 23, San Jose, Moscow, and more dmarti@zgp.org http://boycottadobe.com/pages/rallies.html From marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca Tue Jul 24 21:55:10 2001 From: marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca (Marvin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP In-Reply-To: <20010724164947.E8769@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: It seems to me that the EFF and demonstrators should should be paying the AAP a visit next. Looks like they need a boycott too. Austin Hook Calgary From aimee.farr at pobox.com Tue Jul 24 22:04:10 2001 From: aimee.farr at pobox.com (Aimee Farr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The AAP canned response In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As instructed by AAP, I've carefully considered how my "arguments would apply to precisely the same activities in connection with encryption and other technological measures used to protect privacy," and concluded they bolster my argument. Somebody should take them up on their offer and write a formal response and show how "the same arguments" would be protective of privacy. I found this reply both unprofessional and insulting. ~Aimee > * * * > AAP stands by its press release of July 22 supporting the > anticircumvention > provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) and > commending the > Department of Justice for acting on its responsibility to enforce the DMCA > in the matter of Dmitry Sklyarov. > > In response to those who attempt to justify circumventing, or > trafficking in > devices that circumvent, encryption and other technological measures that > protect copyright in the digital environment, AAP urges them to carefully > consider how their arguments would apply to precisely the same > activities in > connection with encryption and other technological measures used > to protect > privacy in that same environment. > > Amy Gwiazdowski > AAP > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > From wild at eff.org Tue Jul 24 22:07:27 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP In-Reply-To: References: <20010724164947.E8769@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724220542.03127d80@pop3.norton.antivirus> Hey Marvin, The EFF is asking people who are members of, or who have influence with organizations that are part of the AAP to ask them to question AAP's public support of the DMCA. Specifically, if someone knows how to have a good sit-down chat with Pat Schroeder about all this, we would be most grateful. We'll be trying to post some sample letters soon, so if you have one you'd like to see on the EFF website, please let me know. Free Dmitry and Reform the DMCA, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 09:55 PM 7/24/2001 -0700, Marvin wrote: >It seems to me that the EFF and demonstrators should should be paying the >AAP a visit next. Looks like they need a boycott too. > >Austin Hook >Calgary > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From pablos at kadrevis.com Tue Jul 24 22:15:16 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Why EFF did not stop attacking Adobe? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1983216.996012916@[10.0.1.220]> Y.S., The EFF has no direct association with Boycott Adobe. We have a common interest in freeing Dmitry Sklyarov, and repealing the DMCA. The link on to the Russian T-Shirt site is not an endorsement, and I would encourage the EFF to take money from Adobe or U.S. Attorney Robert Mueller if they had the chance. Is your use of Hotmail and link to MSN Explorer an endorsment for Microsoft and their level of decency and fairness? Thanks for writing, pablos. (a formerly happy user of Adobe products.) --On Tuesday, July 24, 2001 9:43 PM -0700 y s wrote: > Dear EFF: > Are you still associated with http://www.BoycottAdobe.com ? > They keep attacking Adobe, and attacking in pretty nasty way. For > example, their link "Russian T-shirt" promotes a T-shirt with obscene > and offensive text. And there is a note: "$1.00 per shirt will be > donated to eff.org". Do you accept this $1? Looks pretty hipocritical > after your statement: "EFF praises Adobe for doing the right thing, We > are pleased to see that Adobe has lived up to the high standard of > integrity that has made the company successful." > I would expect a little higher level od decency and fairness from a > company that claims to be a champion of fairness. > > Y.S., a happy user of Adobe products. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From jays at panix.com Tue Jul 24 22:15:18 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: Arrest of Dimitri Sklyarov In-Reply-To: <200107250424.AAA23739@dns1.newmediagroup.com> Message-ID: Ah, something solid for the belly! Thanks! oo--JS. From jstyre at jstyre.com Tue Jul 24 22:17:38 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724220542.03127d80@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <20010724164947.E8769@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010724221117.00b22ee8@earthlink.net> "Interesting" coincidence: According to http://publishers.org/home/abouta/officers.htm the outside law firm for AAP is Weil, Gotschal & Manges. In the _Felten_ case, they represent hacked technology proponent Verance. In the California State Court DeCSS case (not to be confused with the New York federal court 2600 case), they represent the DVD Copy Control Association, which alleges that the defendants stole their trade secrets. Not that this would have any influence on the advice they give to AAP. At 10:07 PM 7/24/2001 -0700, Will Doherty wrote: >Hey Marvin, > >The EFF is asking people who are members of, or who have >influence with organizations that are part of the AAP >to ask them to question AAP's public support of the >DMCA. Specifically, if someone knows how to have a >good sit-down chat with Pat Schroeder about all this, >we would be most grateful. > >We'll be trying to post some sample letters soon, so >if you have one you'd like to see on the EFF website, >please let me know. > >Free Dmitry and Reform the DMCA, > >Will Doherty >Online Activist / Media Relations >Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) >Web http://www.eff.org > >Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age >------- > >At 09:55 PM 7/24/2001 -0700, Marvin wrote: > >>It seems to me that the EFF and demonstrators should should be paying the >>AAP a visit next. Looks like they need a boycott too. >> >>Austin Hook >>Calgary >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>free-sklyarov mailing list >>free-sklyarov@zork.net >>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From wild at eff.org Tue Jul 24 22:40:35 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's Status In-Reply-To: <20010724094330.G3122@area.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724223935.049bbcb0@pop3.norton.antivirus> We know where Dmitry is, that is, in a Las Vegas jail. A TV news crew has visited him and others are in contact as well. At 09:43 AM 7/24/2001 -0700, Dan Martinez wrote: >So, last I heard, (a) no one knows exactly where Dmitry is, and (b) he >has yet to be allowed even consular contact. > >Are these things still true? > >If so, it seems like (b) should be played up in the press. Our >government raised quite a stink a few months ago when several of its >servicepersons were held by the Chinese government without immediate >consular contact. > >As for (a), someone mentioned a writ of habeas corpus. IANAL -- can >someone who is comment on the usefulness of such a thing as a means of >establishing contact with Dmitri? Is anyone at the EFF or elsewhere >pursuing this avenue? > >While I'm all for marching on until the DMCA lies in rubble at our >feet, I don't want to lose sight of the fact that a guy younger than I >am has been entrusted to the tender mercies of federal custody, and it >would probably do him a great deal of good to know that there's still >a larger world out there that cares about him and wants to get him >out. > >Dan > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From ausage at ausage.com Tue Jul 24 22:39:59 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Arrest of Dimitri Sklyarov In-Reply-To: <10672D1FF79DD41184A900508B8B3C9A02B958@PUBLISHER1> References: <10672D1FF79DD41184A900508B8B3C9A02B958@PUBLISHER1> Message-ID: <01072501281400.23691@frankie> I send the floowing response to AAP this evening... On July 24, 2001 02:32 pm, you wrote: > Dear Mr. Lawrence: > > AAP stands by its press release of July 22 supporting the anticircumvention > provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) and commending > the Department of Justice for acting on its responsibility to enforce the > DMCA in the matter of Dmitry Sklyarov. I am sorry Ms Gwiazdowski, but in my mind the Justice Department did not act responsibly in this matter. They did NOT arrest the the owners or officers of the company that had been selling the program in question, even though the owner and president of the company was present in Las Vegas with Mr. Sklyarov. Your press release, and your response, seem to indicate that you believe this to be a case of the government prosecuting a "hacker" for distributing "pirated" (and I use those terms loosely) copies of a copyrighted work. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The person they arrested was an academic who had performed the cryptoanalysis that revealed the weaikness of Adobe's so called "protection" scheme. He was present in Las Vegas to present a paper on his research. The message is clear. If you do academic research that threatens the business interests of a large American concern you will be charged as a criminal. This is the same message that prevented Professor Edward Felton of Princeton from publishing the result of his research Considering that Princeton Univeristy Press is a member of your organization, it seems to me that your organization should seriously consider opposing the DMCA. The law as it stands today is being used to suppress the publication of academic research. It is quite possible, even probable, that some of your members will be prosecuted, criminally or civilly, under Title 17 United States Code, Section 1201 for publishing research in the areas of encryption and Digital Rights Management. I urge you to investigate this situation. Please contact the EFF, Professor Felton, the executive of the ACM and others. I am certain you will see that your first impressions on this issue were mistaken. Please also consider the following: - Alan Cox, a key developer of the Linux Operating System, has publicly announced his resignation from the Usenix ALS committe because, "it is not safe for non US software engineers to vist the United States." - The Boston Globe is reporting that U.S. Rep. Rick Boucher, a Democrat from Virginia, is again questioning the DMCA after Sklyarov's arrest. From the article: "He says there are legitimate reasons why an electronic book owner might wish to copy all or part of the text -- to make a backup copy, or to include an excerpt in some other document. This concept, called 'fair use,' is well established in copyright law." - Many well known names and authors in the computer field have signed a "Declaration of Support" for Mr. Sklyarov, as well as 4705 others at the time this email was written. - Adobe has publically withdrawn their complaint after meeting with the EFF. As the someone who has worked for many years in the publishing industries, and as the publisher of a "hobby" e-zine, I understand and believe in the importance of copyrights. However, I also do not believe that as a consumer I should be required to give up the rights of first sale and fair use that balance the monopoly of copyright. I hope you can see that the issues here have nothing to do with someone making and creating unauthorized copies of a protected work, but are much more concerned with how an individual may access and used a work they have legitimately acquired. I look foreward to your response to my comments and sincerely hope your association modifies its public stance. In the meantime I will continue with my efforts free Mr Sklyarov and to correct the wrongs of the DMCA. Sincerely, -- Andrew Lawrence Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Tue Jul 24 22:46:32 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's Status In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724223935.049bbcb0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: What was the last time Dmitry was contacted in the Las Vegas jail to the best of your knowledge? Is there any available information on when he will be/was moved to California and/or where exactly he will be/was moved to? By my records, the last known contact in Las Vegas was with KTNV on July 18, and there have been no further publicly announced contacts since then. Note that, contrary to current [10:45pm PDT] data on freesklyarov.org, the last [well]known contact with Rene Valladares, Asst Public Defender in las vegas, was on monday july 16, NOT monday july 23. On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > We know where Dmitry is, that is, in a Las Vegas jail. > A TV news crew has visited him and others are in contact > as well. > > At 09:43 AM 7/24/2001 -0700, Dan Martinez wrote: > >So, last I heard, (a) no one knows exactly where Dmitry is, and (b) he > >has yet to be allowed even consular contact. > > > >Are these things still true? > > > >If so, it seems like (b) should be played up in the press. Our > >government raised quite a stink a few months ago when several of its > >servicepersons were held by the Chinese government without immediate > >consular contact. > > > >As for (a), someone mentioned a writ of habeas corpus. IANAL -- can > >someone who is comment on the usefulness of such a thing as a means of > >establishing contact with Dmitri? Is anyone at the EFF or elsewhere > >pursuing this avenue? > > > >While I'm all for marching on until the DMCA lies in rubble at our > >feet, I don't want to lose sight of the fact that a guy younger than I > >am has been entrusted to the tender mercies of federal custody, and it > >would probably do him a great deal of good to know that there's still > >a larger world out there that cares about him and wants to get him > >out. > > > >Dan > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- -alexf From nick at zork.net Tue Jul 24 22:54:10 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hrmm In-Reply-To: <87u201dghr.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 05:01:04PM -0700 References: <20010724164831.G25362@halibut.com> <87u201dghr.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010724225410.G16094@zork.net> Begin Klepht quotation: > >>>>> "DC" == David Carmean writes: > LS> San Jose CHIP is supposedly in charge of the case now. > DC> Oh, great, just what Dmitry needs, to be the seminal CHIPs > DC> case. This is not going to help. > Still, at the same time, they're already trumpeting other "successes", > so there's an opportunity for the CHIP to appear "fair" and > "reasonable" here. I dunno, man. Ponch is a pretty nice guy when he needs to be. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From jono at microshaft.org Tue Jul 24 22:56:31 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP and Cryptographic Attack In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010724221117.00b22ee8@earthlink.net>; from jstyre@jstyre.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 10:17:38PM -0700 References: <20010724164947.E8769@networkcommand.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010724220542.03127d80@pop3.norton.antivirus> <4.3.2.7.2.20010724221117.00b22ee8@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20010724225631.B10865@networkcommand.com> Crpyto Attacks? Send this back to them! http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/g00-176.htm Researchers from 12 different countries worked on developing advanced encoding methods during the global competition. NIST invited the worldwide cryptographic community to "attack" the encryption formulas in an effort to break the codes. After narrowing the field down from 15 formulas to five, NIST invited cryptographers to intensify their attacks on the finalists. The agency and the world cryptographic community also evaluated the encoding formulas for factors such as security, speed and versatility. The Rijndael developers are Belgian cryptographers Joan Daemen (pronounced Yo'-ahn Dah'-mun) of Proton World International and Vincent Rijmen (pronounced Rye'-mun) of Katholieke Universiteit Leuven. Both are highly regarded experts within the international cryptographic community. http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/g00-176.htm More: http://www.esat.kuleuven.ac.be/~rijmen/rijndael/ On 24-Jul-2001, James S. Tyre wrote: > "Interesting" coincidence: > > According to http://publishers.org/home/abouta/officers.htm the outside law > firm for AAP is Weil, Gotschal & Manges. In the _Felten_ case, they > represent hacked technology proponent Verance. In the California State > Court DeCSS case (not to be confused with the New York federal court 2600 > case), they represent the DVD Copy Control Association, which alleges that > the defendants stole their trade secrets. > > Not that this would have any influence on the advice they give to AAP. > > At 10:07 PM 7/24/2001 -0700, Will Doherty wrote: > >Hey Marvin, > > > >The EFF is asking people who are members of, or who have > >influence with organizations that are part of the AAP > >to ask them to question AAP's public support of the > >DMCA. Specifically, if someone knows how to have a > >good sit-down chat with Pat Schroeder about all this, > >we would be most grateful. > > > >We'll be trying to post some sample letters soon, so > >if you have one you'd like to see on the EFF website, > >please let me know. > > > >Free Dmitry and Reform the DMCA, > > > >Will Doherty > >Online Activist / Media Relations > >Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > >Web http://www.eff.org > > > >Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age > >------- > > > >At 09:55 PM 7/24/2001 -0700, Marvin wrote: > > > >>It seems to me that the EFF and demonstrators should should be paying the > >>AAP a visit next. Looks like they need a boycott too. > >> > >>Austin Hook > >>Calgary > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>free-sklyarov mailing list > >>free-sklyarov@zork.net > >>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com > Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) > 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 > Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From pablos at kadrevis.com Tue Jul 24 23:01:23 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boycott Adobe need Junior Webmaster Message-ID: <2149214.996015683@[10.0.1.220]> Are you pissed off about Dmitry Sklyarov's Arrest? Are you livid about the DMCA? Do you read every message on this list? Do you know HTML? Then you may be just the right person to contribute to the Boycott Adobe effort by helping maintain our website. This exciting opportunity to join a growing team of unexperienced activists won't last long. Salary is non-existent, benefits are slim to none, and the hours are long. Interested participants must be willing to read several hundred email messages a day and act quickly to keep this massively popular site current. Please respond directly to if you think you may be the right person for the job. Thanks, pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From ausage at ausage.com Tue Jul 24 23:24:03 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fwd: FYI:Not all Publishers agree with the APA. Message-ID: <01072502240303.23691@frankie> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: FYI:Not all Publishers agree with the APA. Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 02:06:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "J.E. Cripps" To: The free-sklyarov list isn't taking my posts :-( Also I don't have time to edit this into anything shorter. Here's some background and comment from Electronic Publishers Coalition EPC Condemns Criminal Use of DMCA http://www.epccentral.org His (or his company's) product is legal in many European countries. "While all publishers are concerned about professional copyright thieves, the Electronic Publishers Coalition condemns the use of the criminal provisions of the DMCA against Dimitry Sklyarov, a Russian programmer and cryptanalyst visiting the United States." "Persecution of an individual shouldn't be any company's response to a commercial disagreement, especially regarding copyright," Connie Foster, the EPC executive director said Sunday." "Sklyarov, a graduate student at Bauman Moscow State Technical University, reported at a Las Vegas conference on his research on e-book security performed for his dissertation. His research was later incorporated into a permissions-removal program called Advanced E-book Processor, or AEBPR, by ElcomSoft, a Russian software company that now employs him. The program apparently sold fewer than ten copies before being pulled from the market at Adobe's insistence. It had not been available commercially for more than two weeks before Sklyarov's visit to America." "AEBPR allows users to make backups of legally purchased Adobe eBooks that ignore the eBooks' restrictions on copying, printing and lending, if any, and permit the eBook to be read on a replacement copy of Adobe eBook Reader if the initial installation no longer functions or if the user upgrades to a new computer. It does not work with eBooks sold to another user. Since under Russian law, such backups are mandatory for data sellers, Adobe eBooks contravene the law and AEBPR is legal in Russia, as well as in Germany and Scandinavia, and other countries. Its use in the U.S. is not permitted under the DMCA, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act." -- Keep posted about latest developements: http://freesklyarov.org http://boycottadobe.org http://www.anti-dmca.org ------------------------------------------------------- From nick at zork.net Tue Jul 24 23:34:57 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Ashcroft Comments on Carnivore In-Reply-To: <20010723201754.M98211@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 08:17:54PM -0700 References: <01a401c113b4$8bb76ea0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> <20010723201754.M98211@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010724233457.J16094@zork.net> Begin Jon O . quotation: > Ashcroft replied that the FBI does not have a system called Carnivore. Duh. Everyone knows Echelon is owned by the NSA! -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From wild at eff.org Tue Jul 24 23:34:33 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] press coverage In-Reply-To: <8766cicb7g.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> References: <200107242025.f6OKP7m19240@www1.mailru.com> <200107242025.f6OKP7m19240@www1.mailru.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724233346.04aa3008@pop3.norton.antivirus> I believe it was protests in 12 or 13 cities so far (as of July 24). At 01:40 PM 7/24/2001 -0700, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "AM" == Alexander Moskalyuk writes: > > AM> So, to San Jose activists who are disappointed that the EFF > AM> canceled Monday's anti-Adobe protest, try taking your "Free > AM> Dmitry" signs about 50 miles north. - Jen Muehlbauer > >Apparently Muehlbauer is not aware -- despite all the reports to the >contrary -- that protests in 19 cities went off, as planned, with a >great effect on Monday's outcome. > >But the last advice is at least confirmational of what we all already >know. > >~Klepht > >-- >klepht@eleutheria.org >http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jay at cs.uoregon.edu Tue Jul 24 23:38:36 2001 From: jay at cs.uoregon.edu (Jay Schneider) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattle protest photoessay Message-ID: <012e01c114d4$6f650c00$7f603c04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> Hi All, I've put up a photoessay of the Seattle protest and there's a link off the main page to a thumbnailed image archive of about 122 pictures from the Seattle rally. http://protest.techwood.net Jay Schneider From jono at microshaft.org Tue Jul 24 23:56:51 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protesters target FBI nominee over Russian arrest In-Reply-To: <012e01c114d4$6f650c00$7f603c04@vz.dsl.genuity.net>; from jay@cs.uoregon.edu on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 11:38:36PM -0700 References: <012e01c114d4$6f650c00$7f603c04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> Message-ID: <20010724235651.H10865@networkcommand.com> http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010724/n24319331.html SAN FRANCISCO, July 24 (Reuters) - Supporters of a Russian programmer arrested on charges of violating a controversial U.S. copyright law took aim on Tuesday at the California prosecutor in the case -- who is President George W. Bush's nominee to be next director of the FBI. From ed at hintz.org Wed Jul 25 00:02:20 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's Status Message-ID: <200107250702.f6P72Kc19904@phil.hintz.org> On 7/24/01 10:46 PM, alexf@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu thus spake: >By my records, the last known contact in Las Vegas was with KTNV on July >18, and there have been no further publicly announced contacts since >then. Note that, contrary to current [10:45pm PDT] data on >freesklyarov.org, the last [well]known contact with Rene Valladares, Asst >Public Defender in las vegas, was on monday july 16, NOT monday july 23. I know for a fact that Dmitry talked with Oxana (his wife), probably on 23 July although it could have been 22 July. Oxana's english isn't so hot (although it's a helluva lot better than my (non existant) Russian!), so I'm not sure of the exact date, but she did tell me, personally, that it happened. One could assume therefore that some sort of legal representation was also present, although it's entirely possible his captors simply decided to let him use a payphone... Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From david.haworth at altavista.net Wed Jul 25 00:16:51 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Better crypto for eBooks? In-Reply-To: <20010724155918.A23173@research.netsol.com>; from raldi@research.netsol.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:59:18PM -0400 References: <200107241506.KAA16843@og1.olagrande.net> <20010724145145.M31377@sherohman.org> <20010724155918.A23173@research.netsol.com> Message-ID: <20010725091651.B29226@3soft.de> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:59:18PM -0400, Mike Schiraldi wrote: > If the audio is still encrypted, why does the driver care who it passes it > to, since only the speakers can presumably decrypt it? Probably because it's encrypted using rot13 ;-) -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From ausage at ausage.com Wed Jul 25 00:15:18 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Arrest of Dimitri Sklyarov In-Reply-To: <10672D1FF79DD41184A900508B8B3C9A02B958@PUBLISHER1> References: <10672D1FF79DD41184A900508B8B3C9A02B958@PUBLISHER1> Message-ID: <01072503151804.23691@frankie> On July 24, 2001 02:32 pm, you wrote: > Dear Mr. Lawrence: > ... > In response to those who attempt to justify circumventing, or trafficking > in devices that circumvent, encryption and other technological measures > that protect copyright in the digital environment, AAP urges them to > carefully consider how their arguments would apply to precisely the same > activities in connection with encryption and other technological measures > used to protect privacy in that same environment. I am writing this additional response at your question connects to the core of my business, Smoke & Mirrors. We develop commercial, database e-commerce web sites for medium to large companies. Some of these web sites collect credit card information and other private data from the users of the web site. Others contain large, proprietary databases where access is provided an a subscription or pay as you go basis. Obviously security is a major concern. To responsibly secure these sites the free exchange of information is very important. The majority of the security vulnerabilities of systems using the internet are not discovered by teenagers poking their noses into places they shouldn't go, but by skilled individuals using their experience and imagination to try and perfect a better product. As a result of the paper published my Mr. Sklyarov I now the exact strengths and weakness of Abdobe's current protection systems. As professional programmer, I am sad to say that I would be guilty of serious profession misconduct and negligence if I were to use any of them to protect the data on any of my clients web sites. In fact, in Canada such negligence in the protection of private personal data could be considered criminal under our laws where organizations have a legal responsability to protect the information they collect. The point is... If no one ever tries to pick the lock, how will I know if it is any good. I have studied the algorithms and read the reports on the various security protocols I use to protect my customers systems. I have a whole suite of "hackers tools" I use to test the effectiveness of those protocols. Without free and open communication I cannot do my job, but by doing my job I may be prosecuted under the DMCA. Sincerely, -- Andrew Lawrence Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 From free-sklyarov at happycool.com Wed Jul 25 00:21:32 2001 From: free-sklyarov at happycool.com (Victor Piterbarg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What else could Adobe do? and the next round of protests Message-ID: Hi, Now that Adobe has allegedly reversed it's stance, it became pretty obvious to me that there's nothing else that they could do. They essentially got the best of both worlds. The public outrage against them has been calmed, and Dmitry is still in jail. Have they done anything to actually help Dmitry? I don't think so. It seems that "withdrawing the complaint" has rather dubious benefits. If Adobe really reversed it's stance they could have shown it by contributing something to Dmitry's legal fund. Obviously to demand that from Adobe would border on extortion, but if they truly wanted to make amends, they could have done something to that effect. We need to organize the next round of protests that will target the organizations that can actually give orders to release Dmitry. And we need to do it as soon as possible. I am afraid that the "victory" against Adobe might reduce the momentum that we've gained up to this point. I hope that will not be the case. The sooner we organize the second round of nationwide protests, the better. We need to show that we are not going to go away until we get what we want. Most importantly we need to show that we will not be placated by impotent gestures. -Victor From Jonathan at Weesner.org Wed Jul 25 00:33:49 2001 From: Jonathan at Weesner.org (Jonathan Weesner) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF's Mueller letter a mistake, I fear Message-ID: <3B5E765D.4040609@Weesner.org> With all due respect to Shari and the EFF, I fear their public letter to Mueller will not have the desired effect... and may even backfire. Two problems I see with the letter are: 1. Although couched in conciliatory language, there is a clear suggestion of threat. The offer to remove this threat if Mueller agrees to meet smells even worse. 2. Public posting of the letter denies Mueller the fig leaf of secrecy to hide behide while he caves in to EFF demands. Experience shows us how various groups react to the threat of public protest: 1. Politicians cave in eventually 2. Corporations cave much faster 3. Appointed Bureaucrats become bull-headed paranoids when confronted with the hint of a threat, or the suggestion they have erred. I hope I'm wrong on this one! Jonathan Weesner From wild at eff.org Wed Jul 25 00:32:33 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF Statement Planned for Later Today In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725003140.03440e10@pop3.norton.antivirus> The EFF is currently planning to make a statement by shortly after 5:00pm Pacific time today, Wednesday, July 25. Free Dmitry and Reform the DMCA, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 25 00:38:52 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's Status In-Reply-To: <200107250702.f6P72Kc19904@phil.hintz.org> References: <200107250702.f6P72Kc19904@phil.hintz.org> Message-ID: <87n15ta25v.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "EAH" == Edmund A Hintz writes: EAH> I'm not sure of the exact date, but she did tell me, EAH> personally, that it happened. Hey, uh... any way we could get an address, or something to give out to well-wishers? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From tom at lemuria.org Wed Jul 25 00:52:55 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fox letter about the DMCA to ISPs In-Reply-To: <20010724150134.F7908@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:01:34PM -0700 References: <20010724150134.F7908@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010725095253.C29863@lemuria.org> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:01:34PM -0700, Jon O . wrote: > The Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA") and other civil and criminal > statutes provide for severe penalties (including prison sentences of up > to 10 years, forfeiture of equipment, and fines of up to $2 million per > incident) against persons who record and post pirated copies of films on > the Internet. are they for real? is there anything besides 1st degree murder that carries a higher penalty? hmm... new slogan for the "handcuff and turn yourself in" activism: "I'm a 3/4 murderer" From david.haworth at altavista.net Wed Jul 25 00:52:53 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Generic reply to the "break into your house" comments In-Reply-To: <20010724155140.D14917@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:51:40PM -0700 References: <04af01c1148c$420c64d0$3e203b40@PRODUCTION> <3B5DF38E.B61C5426@mindspring.com> <20010724155140.D14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010725095253.D29226@3soft.de> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:51:40PM -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote: > Right, but the analogy to physical property is still weak. If your > house were like a copyrighted work, you wouldn't be allowed to let > other people visit it! Furthermore, you wouldn't be allowed to enter it yourself, unless accompanied by a security guard appointed by the copyright owner. -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From mgenin at computerra.ru Wed Jul 25 00:05:15 2001 From: mgenin at computerra.ru (Mike Genin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Posted this on Slashdot, but. . . In-Reply-To: <200107241800.LAA27018@webmail.speakeasy.net> References: <200107241800.LAA27018@webmail.speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <1052150964.20010725110515@computerra.ru> There could not be a counter-arrest here... Despite that this is just a wrong way to solve the problem, it is not a spy or diplomatic conflict when such things happens. Our officials did nothing even when mr. Borodin was arrested and put in jail, and he was (and is) a state official with a diplomatic passport. It is sad, that many people here do not understand the Dmitry's case. Only IT-related press here understand it right. Yes, there are news about him in a TV-newsblocks, but it always includes words like "hacker", "crack", "removing protection". Mass media interest is in scandals of any kind, not of "boring" explanation of Adobe position, Elcomsoft position etc. Still, I do not understand position of our Foreign Ministry. It do nothing to solve the problem. This is their area by all means. Well, maybe they do something in silence, but I doubt it. Keith A. Glass wrote: KAG> It may be time to up the ante: As the Adobe Software is apparentely in violation of Russian Law, well..... KAG> So here it is on Slashdot: KAG> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=01/07/23/2315228&cid=84 KAG> **** KAG> So when will the Moscow Militia. . . (Score:2, Insightful) KAG> by Salgak1 (salgak@earthling.net) on 11:35 AM July 24th, 2001 EST (#84) KAG> (User #20136 Info) KAG> . . .arrest the employees of the Adobe Moscow office ??? After all, ADOBE is breaking Russian law. . . oops, nearest office is in Sweden. However, they DO have an agent in Russia: KAG> Russia KAG> AZ-Graphics Co. KAG> 24 Pravda Street, Office 706 KAG> Pressa Entrance KAG> Moscow 125865 KAG> Russia KAG> Tel: (+7) 095-257-45-23 KAG> Fax: (+7) 095-251-42-49 KAG> (taken from Adobe's European Support Page) KAG> Actually, I'm surprised that there HASN'T been a counter-arrest in Russia, or a uproar from the Duma. . . . KAG> ***** KAG> And a reply that may be most useful here. . . KAG> ***** KAG> Russian Slashdot readers... (Score:3, Insightful) KAG> by cyberdonny on 12:10 PM July 24th, 2001 EST (#176) KAG> (User #46462 Info) KAG> ... you know what you have to do. Walk to your friendly neighbourhood police office, and file a criminal complaint against AZ-Graphics Co. for trafficking in fraudulent fair-use locked software. KAG> If enough such complaints are received, the police has to act in one way or another. KAG> _______________________________________________ KAG> free-sklyarov mailing list KAG> free-sklyarov@zork.net KAG> http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Best regards, Mike Genin Computerra Publishing www.ibusiness.ru - www.computerra.ru From tom at lemuria.org Wed Jul 25 01:00:37 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] He's free.... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20010724154729.C14917@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:47:29PM -0700 References: <20010724154729.C14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010725100034.D29863@lemuria.org> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:47:29PM -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote: > > I guess the idea that there are tools in my home that can be used for legal and > > illegal uses makes the most sense in understanding the arguments here. > > Everything from cd burners to bongs are sold legally with the express intent > > being legal uses. > > No doubt he means "express intent being illegal uses". no, I'm sure he means what he writes. cd burners are sold for legal uses, and many exist (even with audio - I've burned a dozen or so mp3 cds for use in my car). the point is that nothing is illegal just because illegal uses exist. you can kill someone with pretty much everything (including pens), yet nobody would request large portions of our stuff be made illegal because of that - unless we're talking software, were suddenly things work different. From ed at hintz.org Wed Jul 25 01:00:45 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's Status Message-ID: <200107250800.f6P80jc06242@phil.hintz.org> On 7/25/01 12:38 AM, klepht@eleutheria.org thus spake: >Hey, uh... any way we could get an address, or something to give out >to well-wishers? Heh... Several hundred well wishers could get old fast, /. effect, you know... ;-) I'll tell you this much-contact employees of Elcomsoft, and they can put you in touch if they choose-I had no contact with her, Dmitry, or any Elcomsoft employee prior to the arrest... FWIW she appreciates our effort. More than that I don't want to say without her OK... Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tom at lemuria.org Wed Jul 25 01:11:29 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] psychology: differences between the FBI/DoJ and Adobe In-Reply-To: <004601c11494$e7d69680$aa7ba8c0@snvl1.sfba.home.com>; from kathryn@ksml.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 04:03:51PM -0700 References: <004601c11494$e7d69680$aa7ba8c0@snvl1.sfba.home.com> Message-ID: <20010725101126.E29863@lemuria.org> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 04:03:51PM -0700, kathryn@ksml.com wrote: > With Adobe, our protest = geeks persuading geeks. Adobe's programmers > probably read Slashdot, etc., knew what was up, and could sympathize with > Dmitri. With the gov't there'll be much less common ground. The FBI/DoJ acts > suspicious at best about clever programming and hacks. > > With the Gov't, they won't want the appearance of responding to protesters. > Especially as to them "protester" = a mix of "riot, Seattle, > tree-sitters..." = people you never deal with. Adobe looked out the window > to see "unhappy customer base" = people you can't ignore. which is exactly why I again appeal to creativity. they've seen protests before and they've ignored protests before. give them something new to chew on. contrary to kathryn, I do believe you can play "good cop / bad cop" with cops. just by slightly different rules. the idea is that one side gives them a slightly untasty way out, while the other side shows them that staying in will get more and more ugly for them. > With the confirmation hearing- these are the people who voted for the DMCA. > Their gut reaction might be "Do I want that an innocent man was arrested by > the law I made? Easiest solution is to think of him as a guilty man." or: "I voted for this law. I can't allow it to imprison innocent people. that would reflect badly on both me and the law." From misha2 at urbis.net.il Wed Jul 25 02:19:58 2001 From: misha2 at urbis.net.il (Michael Kupershtein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protesters Seek Release of Fnord References: <87bsmadu4g.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <3B5E8F3E.75F83E6F@urbis.net.il> Klepht wrote: > "Despite the fact that the word 'hacker' didn't appear in the article, > we'll still put it in the headline." > > http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/industry/07/24/hacker.reut/index.html > > This looks a lot like the AP wire story, but I figgered I'd throw it > out here anyways. > Woha. I think you're right. In the last couple of years, `Hacker` IS a Fnord. They did use it in the article, tho`: "...after he spoke at a major hackers convention..." and "...at the Def Con hacker conference..." Michael From crism at maden.org Wed Jul 25 01:24:50 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] KQED coverage? Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010725012017.00a440f0@mail.maden.org> Does anyone know more about it? Someone from the typography listserv (where I tried to enlist boycotters) said, >Did I imagine it or was that you, Chris, on KQED's California >Report yesterday morning being interviewed outside of Adobe HQ? I did speak at The Snake to a fellow without identification and with a microphone; he might have been FBI, might have been KQED, might have been Illuminati. He might have been Peter Jon Shuler () with sunglasses, but I'm not sure. TIA, crism -- "You will find that the State is the kind of organization which, though it does big things badly, does small things badly too." - J.K. Galbraith === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From david.haworth at altavista.net Wed Jul 25 01:29:11 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Reply from the AAP In-Reply-To: ; from doug@mcnaught.org on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 10:07:25PM -0400 References: <01072421512502.23294@frankie> Message-ID: <20010725102911.F29226@3soft.de> Andrew Lawrence wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > Subject: RE: Arrest of Dimitri Sklyarov > > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:32:54 -0400 > > From: Amy Gwiazdowski > > To: "'Andrew Lawrence'" > > > > > > In response to those who attempt to justify circumventing, or trafficking in > > devices that circumvent, encryption and other technological measures that > > protect copyright in the digital environment, AAP urges them to carefully > > consider how their arguments would apply to precisely the same activities in > > connection with encryption and other technological measures used to protect > > privacy in that same environment. Doug McNaught then wrote: > > Notice also her complete neglect of any points or issues related to > fair use. Not only that. Notice the classical Orwellian doublethink. "This product protects the copyright" despite the fact that it clearly doesn't. Also note that (AFAIK at least) you can't sue anyone for decrypting your emails. Even if you found out. What you do is make your encryption stronger, or change your keys, whatever. Oh dear, looks like the rot0 encryption on this email has been cracked. Better complain to the feds. ;-) -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From tom at lemuria.org Wed Jul 25 01:46:41 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [Antipiracy@fox.com: [SECURITY] Internet Piracy of Planet of the Apes] In-Reply-To: <20010724192617.B19050@shell9.ba.best.com>; from tabindak@best.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 07:26:18PM -0700 References: <20010724192617.B19050@shell9.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <20010725104638.G29863@lemuria.org> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 07:26:18PM -0700, Tabinda N. Khan wrote: > Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to post the whole thing. > I received it today. I don't how they got my name, > specifically. I'm not an ISP. write them back: "dear sirs, I am more than willing to help you combat this capital crime. please provide me with a full digital copy of the work in question, so I can set our scanners to compare any traffic against this pattern and ring an immediate alarm if all or parts of the content are seen on the network." From tom at lemuria.org Wed Jul 25 01:48:44 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Reply from the AAP In-Reply-To: <20010724192743.C9566@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 07:27:43PM -0700 References: <01072421512502.23294@frankie> <20010724192743.C9566@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010725104841.H29863@lemuria.org> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 07:27:43PM -0700, Jon O . wrote: > Can someone tell this lady we welcome someone testing a "measure" used to protect > privacy so that we actually know it works? Can you also point her to the RSA Cracking > Challege going on right now? Can you also mention that the weak protection on > eBooks will result in a higher rate of piracy? why? she doesn't understand the least and probably didn't even read the original e-mail sent to her. this is just the standard "we won't change our minds and now piss off" mail. From tom at lemuria.org Wed Jul 25 01:50:03 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The AAP canned response In-Reply-To: ; from spider@sneakybastard.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 07:31:00PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010725104959.I29863@lemuria.org> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 07:31:00PM -0700, Sonia Ara?a wrote: > I sent email to Amy Gwiazdowski, someone responsible for the press > releases on the AAP's web site, under two different names. > > Both letters, despite raising different issues, got this response: as I said, it's just the default "piss off" response. From tom at lemuria.org Wed Jul 25 02:01:06 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP test Message-ID: <20010725110102.K29863@lemuria.org> I just sent the following e-mail to that AAP lady. just to check whether she's got anything that mentions Dmitry on "autorespond with piss-off letter": I read your press release about the imprisonment of that russian thief guy. as someone who is a regular customer to several of your members, I am a little disturbed about some of the issues. specifically, don't you think the DMCA is the wrong law to try guys like this? I mean, he's an outright THIEF. 5 years? for stealing the life-work of an author? you must be kidding. then, of course, some people say he didn't actually steal, he just told others how it works. as I see it, he sold crowbars. well, if anyone comes to my house with a crowbar, he's asking for a bullet, right? so please make it clear that you are asking for AT LEAST the maximum penalty. also, you should see to it that crowbars are made illegal. did you know that they can still be legally sold? I mean, that's just like that russian guy selling his software, right? it's EXACTLY the same thing. From tom at lemuria.org Wed Jul 25 02:05:53 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The second round begins ... In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010725003000.00aedd48@mail.utstar.com>; from snair@utstar.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 12:30:26AM -0400 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010725003000.00aedd48@mail.utstar.com> Message-ID: <20010725110550.L29863@lemuria.org> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 12:30:26AM -0400, Sreeni R. Nair wrote: > http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010724_eff_mueller_letter.html wow. that's quite a forceful letter, especially the "if you talk to us before the end of the day, we might leave you alone" part. anyone local willing to organize the "handcuff and turn yourself in as a circumvention device" activity? I would do it immediatly if I were a little less than 10,000 miles away from california. :) From tom at lemuria.org Wed Jul 25 02:13:43 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010724221117.00b22ee8@earthlink.net>; from jstyre@jstyre.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 10:17:38PM -0700 References: <20010724164947.E8769@networkcommand.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010724220542.03127d80@pop3.norton.antivirus> <4.3.2.7.2.20010724221117.00b22ee8@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20010725111340.M29863@lemuria.org> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 10:17:38PM -0700, James S. Tyre wrote: > "Interesting" coincidence: > > According to http://publishers.org/home/abouta/officers.htm the outside law > firm for AAP is Weil, Gotschal & Manges. In the _Felten_ case, they > represent hacked technology proponent Verance. In the California State > Court DeCSS case (not to be confused with the New York federal court 2600 > case), they represent the DVD Copy Control Association, which alleges that > the defendants stole their trade secrets. > > Not that this would have any influence on the advice they give to AAP. they also have an extreme ignorance and/or disinterest when it comes to questions of foreign nationals. not once in the california case were people in europe or elsewhere in the free world treated any different than people living in california, next door to a movie studio. also, they didn't even get my COUNTRY right for the first few months, even though I pointed the error out to them several times. so, expect AAP to ignore any and all aspects of Dmitry being a russian. From david.haworth at altavista.net Wed Jul 25 02:15:15 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The second round begins ... In-Reply-To: <20010725110550.L29863@lemuria.org>; from tom@lemuria.org on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:05:53AM +0200 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010725003000.00aedd48@mail.utstar.com> <20010725110550.L29863@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20010725111515.H29226@3soft.de> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:05:53AM +0200, Tom wrote: > anyone local willing to organize the "handcuff and turn yourself in as > a circumvention device" activity? I would do it immediatly if I were a > little less than 10,000 miles away from california. :) Can I suggest, instead of real handcuffs, you should buy some plastic toy handcuffs that you can "circumvent" with a paperclip ... just to press home the point. BTW - Tom, I loved your mail to the AAP lady. Nearly fell off my chair laughing :-) -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From tom at lemuria.org Wed Jul 25 02:27:42 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protesters target FBI nominee over Russian arrest In-Reply-To: <20010724235651.H10865@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 11:56:51PM -0700 References: <012e01c114d4$6f650c00$7f603c04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> <20010724235651.H10865@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010725112740.N29863@lemuria.org> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 11:56:51PM -0700, Jon O . wrote: > http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010724/n24319331.html > > SAN FRANCISCO, July 24 (Reuters) - Supporters of a Russian programmer arrested > on charges of violating a controversial U.S. copyright law took aim on > Tuesday at the California prosecutor in the case -- who is President George W. > Bush's nominee to be next director of the FBI. with that and the EFF's letter, mueller is now officially in the line of fire. that kind of moods the discussion of whether we should go easy on him for one reason or the other, doesn't it? I will send a letter to someone appropriate in germany and ask them to oppose his nomination because he is arresting foreign nationals on made-up, dubious charges and if he becomes the next FBI director, I'd be afraid to travel to the states. From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Wed Jul 25 02:22:07 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA-minnesota Message-ID: I've gotten a few emails commenting on the need for registration at yahoo to join the DMCA-minnesota list/group. I was incorrect. Yahoo registration is not required to participate in the list. Send an email to DMCA-minnesota-subscribe@yahoogroups.com and you will be added to the mailing list. Yahoo registration gives list members access to the bulletin board-style list archive, calendar, files and various other perks found at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota . I highly recommend using the web-based system if for no other reason than to read discussion that took place before signing on. Nobody ever said you had to respond truthfully to the questions Yahoo poses to you regarding your demographics. I appreciate the offers to host the list. It is my desire to spend as little time thinking about the systems we implement to facilitate our organization, and more time using them to do something useful. Who wants to clean out stale locks instead of Freeing Dmitry and Repealing the DMCA? If using Yahoo is positively out of the question, RL org meetings will be announced on the announcement list I continue to compile. I hope that people won't let their aversion to my choice of service provider hinder our efforts. sincerely, Chris Moseng From wim.stubbe at belgacom.net Wed Jul 25 02:46:33 2001 From: wim.stubbe at belgacom.net (Wim Stubbe) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:51 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: [free-sklyarov] AAP test Message-ID: <01072511463301.01687@debian> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] AAP test Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:44:17 +0200 From: Wim Stubbe To: Tom On Wednesday 25 July 2001 11:01, you wrote: > then, of course, some people say he didn't actually steal, he just told > others how it works. as I see it, he sold crowbars. well, if anyone > comes to my house with a crowbar, he's asking for a bullet, right? Actually, you should shoot the one who manufactures, and sells crowbar's to make a perfect analogy. What you 're saying is: Let's all go destroy our shops!!!!! ------------------------------------------------------- From huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 02:47:34 2001 From: huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com (huaiyu_zhu@yahoo.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Arguments from consumer rights pov Message-ID: Following are some of my thoughts. I hope it can be communicated to interested but uninformed people. Comments and corrections are welcome. Use it if you like it. Who is infringing whose right? 1. Some considerations on intellectual property Intellectual property is quite different from physical property. Physical properties have two kinds of values: utilization value and exchange value. If you have a chair, and I take it, you can neither use it nor sell it. So you want to keep it to yourself for both reasons. On the other hand, intellectual property has at most the exchange value. If you have a book and I copy it, you can still use the book. You can still sell the book to others. What you lose is a fraction of potential exchange value, that of selling a copy to me. Furthermore, if I distribute copies to others, that may further take away more fractions of your potential sale value. Of course, if I had no intention whatsoever to buy it from you in the first place, and I do not intend to distribute it to others, then you lose nothing letting me copy it. So intellectual property is similar to physical property only in this limited sense. Violation of intellectual property is not like theft in that the owner loses something tangible. Instead, the owner loses potential exchange value. It has no similarity whatsoever with piracy, which involves violence, force, deprivation of personal freedom, and danger to human life. [Note: there is no actual legal concept of intellectual property, but only specific rights to copyright, patent and trademarks, and only for limited time and application. But that is another topic, (see earlier exposition of Jason H Clouse), so I'll just use the word intellectual property in the loose sense.] 2. A physical analogy of Sklyarov case The above explanation is only necessary because it is often wrongly assumed that this case involves violation of intellectual property. It is in fact quite different. It is about means to circumvent a copy restriction device, and about speeches on research in such restrictions. Suppose you sell books, and you do not trust your customers to obey the law, even though the law is clear that they can copy the books for their own use, but cannot sell to others. So to protect your property from your unlawful customers, you decide to cover each page in a sheet of reflective material, which allows users to read the book with a special lamp under a special angle of illumination (but with great difficulty), while blocking any attempt at copying it with an ordinary copy machine. You sell your books and the special reading lamp together as a "secure copyright protected reading device". In some countries such products are illegal to sell under consumer protection laws, as they severely restrict the ability of consumers to use it in many lawful ways. Let's just assume that it happens to be legal in this country. Now what if some researchers discovered that the device is not really secure, that there are many ways you can modify an ordinary lamp to read the books? What if the company that employs the researchers actually make such lamps and sell them? What if it happens that such a lamp can be used to enable copying of your books? Under DMCA, this lamp is called a "copyright protection circumvention device", and selling it is illegal. 3. Does a tool steal? Think about this for a moment. Whether you own the copyright to the books you sell is defined by copyright law. It will not change with the ability to actually make the copies. If all your customers obey the law, all the reflective materials and special lamps become irrelevant. If they don't obey the law, then the ordinary copy machine becomes the first copyright infringement device. The lamps are still irrelevant. It is only when you actively use the special device to restrict the ways your customers could use their legally bought books, that the new lamp becomes a circumvention device, under DMCA. In fact, it becomes illegal even if it is only used to make copies for fair use. Or even if it is only used to facilitate reading (because your lamp is not so comfortable to the eye, for example). Or even if it is used for other purposes entirely unrelated to your restriction method. No, it is still illegal, says the DMCA. This Draconian law has a clear inclination that given the ability to steal, people will steal, and that any tool that may facilitate stealing must be automatically outlawed. 4. Who bears the legal responsibility? Here is a further twist. Suppose you actually sell these restricted reading devices in a country in which they are illegal (because they infringe consumer rights). Suppose some company in that country sells the circumvention device that makes your restricted reading device legal, because they give back the consumer their rights of fair use. And suppose the leading researcher in that company, who happens to be a PhD student doing research in this area, comes to this country to give a presentation in a technical conference about the weakness in your restriction method. Should you get him arrested? Well, you might want to, for obvious economic reasons. But is it moral? Is it just? 5. Conclusions This debate boils down to the fact that there is currently no technology that can completely prevent unauthorized copying while allow all authorized copying. The DMCA gives overly broad power to the seller, at the cost of severely limiting the rights of the buyer. It legalizes behaviors of the seller as if all the buyers have the intention to steal. It prohibits behaviors of the buyers that would not otherwise be illegal, simply because they could be suspected to steal. Essentially it treats all users as thieves on parole. As such it is unfair. Examples also show it stifles innovation. In the long run, it is likely to be detrimental to all parties involved. Huaiyu Zhu From roylo at sr2c.com Wed Jul 25 03:11:50 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] On the Case (Please read it and give me a feedback/input) Message-ID: <009901c114f2$3891b980$0200a8c0@jwin> After talking with some friends of mine, and long discussions; here is what I came up with. Even, I feel that US has no right arresting Sklyarov; but under DMCA the FBI "did" have the right to arrest Sklyarov. So, we pretty much don't have a case against the DoJ and the chances of Sklyarov getting the jail time is high. (I don't like this anymore then you guys do; but that is what might happen) However, DMCA itself at least has two problems - 1. it conflicts with people's constitutional right to free speech 2. it prevents the publish of weak point of some "security" tools, and thus encourages snake oil, and deteriorates info security in the long term. Now look into the 1st problem: It is possible that DMCA can be declared as unconstitutional, for those of you have taken US Gov't/History classes, probably know that "Any law that is declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court has to go away" (i.e. DMCA dies) But, that will takes a few months for it to happen. And a friend of mine, suggest to start the protest base on 2 points 1.) Human Rights 2.) Constitutional Rights Because the general public won't know anything about encryption, but people in this country are very sensitive towards; Human Rights and Constitutional Rights issues. Another things is we NEED large crowd for the protest. 'cause the US gov't isn't like adobe, it take larger crowd to move them. Our directions need to be change, because our targe is no long adobe. [it is in the hands of DoJ now] (Like an old Chinese saying, "You have to take different medicine, for different sickness") Please send me a feedback if you have any additional ideals. And for the people who lives in the Bay, I would like to know how many of you can attend the protest on Sat. and how many friends can you bring. 'cause if the crowd is too small my friends suggestion to push it back until we can get larger crowd. (What do you guys think?>) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010725/7eac8aa3/attachment.html From crism at maden.org Wed Jul 25 03:14:59 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Arguments from consumer rights pov In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010725030550.00a458b0@mail.maden.org> At 02:47 25-07-2001, huaiyu_zhu@yahoo.com wrote: >Following are some of my thoughts. I hope it can be communicated to >interested but uninformed people. Comments and corrections are welcome. >Use it if you like it. > >1. Some considerations on intellectual property > >Intellectual property is quite different from physical property. Physical >properties have two kinds of values: utilization value and exchange value. >If you have a chair, and I take it, you can neither use it nor sell it. So >you want to keep it to yourself for both reasons. On the other hand, >intellectual property has at most the exchange value. If you have a book >and I copy it, you can still use the book. You can still sell the book to >others. What you lose is a fraction of potential exchange value, that of >selling a copy to me. Furthermore, if I distribute copies to others, that >may further take away more fractions of your potential sale value. Of >course, if I had no intention whatsoever to buy it from you in the first >place, and I do not intend to distribute it to others, then you lose nothing >letting me copy it. This last point isn't *quite* true. Even if you didn't intend to buy it, there are two damages caused by your copying. One is that the perceived value of a scarce resource is lowered; people place a value on having something that not everyone else has (such as limited editions) or on being able to own things that have a high cost of entry. If everyone has one (or could), that value is diminished. The second is that, even for commodities, if people who aren't willing to pay can get it for free, then some people who might have been willing to pay otherwise will decide that there's no point. Of course, this all assumes that we're starting with a world in which IP is rigorously protected, which isn't the case, but you might want to strengthen your argument there. (The argument, "I wasn't gonna buy it anyway," is often advanced by warez advocates. In the font world, at least, one can demonstrate a significant drop in the perceived value of fonts in the marketplace due to the fact that anyone can get just about any font from a friend or the Web. Most users don't even realize that fonts can be bought at all. As a result, it is nearly impossible to make a living designing fonts full-time, which means that fewer fonts are created than otherwise might be.) In general, I'm not sure if I like the book-with-protective-covers analogy. It's a little bit forced for my tastes. But I can't come up with a better one right now... the obvious ones that spring to mind involve music or video recording, and protections like this are already in place, and everyone just accepts them. )-: -crism -- "You will find that the State is the kind of organization which, though it does big things badly, does small things badly too." - J.K. Galbraith === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From zawadzki at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 03:57:32 2001 From: zawadzki at yahoo.com (mark zawadzki) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov Message-ID: <20010725105732.38943.qmail@web9605.mail.yahoo.com> Consider the lowly claw hammer. An excellent tool. The vast majority of us use it for what it was intended - striking nails & removing them. Many mystery books have been written in which the villian uses a claw hammer to illegally gain entry or to dispatch his victims. One does not arrest the writer or publisher or hammer manufacturer of when some poor delusional creature then uses a claw hammer to actually murder someone. claw hammer = decryption software mystery writer = Sklyarov publisher/manufacturer = Sklyarov's employer, software distributor " Elcomsoft " striking nails & removing them = fair use of copyrighted works gaining illegal entry = pirating copyrighted works murder w/hammer = access to encrypted personal/corporate information Mark Zawadzki Eastern Pa. Director, Mid-Atlantic Chapter, Clan Cameron If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my shoulders.-- Hal Abelson In computer science, we stand on each other's feet. -- Brian K. Reed --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010725/8cd5cb49/attachment.htm From pschenk at chevalet.net Wed Jul 25 04:06:55 2001 From: pschenk at chevalet.net (Penelope Schenk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] salon.com Message-ID: <010e01c114fa$19acf770$6901a8c0@galoot> Um, not quite. http://www.salon.com/tech/wire/2001/07/24/adobe/index.html "Adobe's announcement came after executives met with members of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a free-speech and privacy organization that has rallied support for Sklyarov. Though the organization canceled a formal protest it had planned outside Adobe's headquarters Monday, about 30 people gathered anyway to complain that Sklyarov was unfairly arrested because he works for a company engaged in a business dispute with Adobe." Penny Schenk Jamaica Plain, MA pschenk@chevalet.net www.chevalet.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010725/4a7784c6/attachment.html From igor at locosun.com Wed Jul 25 04:18:22 2001 From: igor at locosun.com (igor@locosun.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's status update Message-ID: <3B5EAAFE.9BF569B@locosun.com> Hi all, Just spoke to Oksana(Dmitry's wife) and here is the latest. As on today's morning (25 Jul 01) Dmitry is still in Las Vegas. He has spoken a few times to his wife via the lawer. Dmitry is in a good health and spirit. He was also cheered up by the news coverage on TV and thanks everyone for the support. That's all for now. Igor From alex at 2600.COM Wed Jul 25 04:17:18 2001 From: alex at 2600.COM (Neon Samurai) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Generic reply to the "break into your house" comments In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010724180320.00b22ee8@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Yes, I do see you're point, and I did not mean to imply that ignorance of the law was an excuse. However, the only intent that could be attributed to Dmitry was research. It is true that he intended to circumvent a 'digital encryption technology,' but with the intent of encryption research, which is supposedly not prohibited by the DMCA, but for some reason, that clause is never taken into consideration by either law enforcement or the judiciary. Best, Alex http://www.VerizonEatsPoop.com On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, James S. Tyre wrote: > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 18:14:25 -0700 > From: James S. Tyre > To: Neon Samurai , free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Generic reply to the "break into your > house" comments > > At 07:21 PM 7/24/2001 -0400, Neon Samurai wrote: > >On 24 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > > > > What the DMCA does not take into consideration is intent. In > >order for one to be guilty of a crime, one needs to have committed the > >actus reus (physical act) as well as have had the mens rea (mental element > >or intent). It is understandable that copyright holders do not want their > >copyrights infringed upon; however, creating legislation to the effect > >that circumvention of any kind is illegal is absurd -- and this is what we > >have with Dmitry's case. > > > > Surely, Dmitry did not have the intent of facillitating piracy, > >and he should therefore not be held to any criminal charges; however, it > >seems like prosecution vis-a-vis the DMCA has no consideration of the > >accused's intent, and instead treats the act as a strict liability > >offense, like a speeding ticket where guilt has nothing to do with whether > >you intended to speed. > > > >Best, > > > >Alex > >http://www.VerizonEatsPoop.com > > You're correct that DMCA, like most all criminal laws, carries with it an > intent (mens rea) requirement, but you've misstated what that requirement is. > > The relevant intent is not the intent to break the law, but rather to do > the act complained of. If I intended to do the act I did (and other > conditions are met) then I can be held criminally liable even if I was > ignorant of the fact that my act was illegal - ignorance of the law is no > excuse. On the other hand, if I didn't intend to do the act, I somehow did > it inadvertently, then I do not have the requisite intent, even if I knew > that the act was illegal. This is how criminal law intent generally works, > my statement is not specific to DMCA. > > "Some say that ignorance is bliss, > while others opine that ignorance is no excuse. > Therefore, I must conclude, > bliss is no excuse." > > -- J.S. Tyre, at some point during his misspent youth > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com > Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) > 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 > Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net > > From ausage at ausage.com Wed Jul 25 04:23:46 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Generic reply to the "break into your house" comments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072507234600.00461@frankie> On July 25, 2001 07:17 am, Neon Samurai wrote: > Yes, I do see you're point, and I did not mean to imply that > ignorance of the law was an excuse. However, the only intent that could > be attributed to Dmitry was research. It is true that he intended to > circumvent a 'digital encryption technology,' but with the intent of > encryption research, which is supposedly not prohibited by the DMCA, but > for some reason, that clause is never taken into consideration by either > law enforcement or the judiciary. This is because the research exemption is written so that it will apply only if you do your research in secret and keep the results secret. From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Wed Jul 25 04:24:56 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Moscow demonstration success. Message-ID: <005001c114fc$9d2d7280$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, All! Moscow demonstration success. I am just from Moscow action for Dmitry Sklyarov freedom. Civil actions have a little history in Russia, as they were prosecuted in Soviet Union. But we managed to make whole thing not worse, than our friends in Reno (U.S.). It was really great! The whole action was about 2 hours. We had about 10 people, actively working for Dmitry Sklyarov freedom. Place of metting was a small park at Kudrinskaja ploshad', after 40 minutes of planning we went by Sadovoe Kolcho to American Embassy, passing flyers to people. Half of our side was in black because of Boston idea. In Russia it sounds "Funeral for Civil Rights in U.S." At the Embassy we sneak into larger crowd of Russians (think, above 50) and Americans, that were queued to the Embassy. Flyers were specially designed to tell those people about one Russian, that already visited that Embassy, wishing to fly to America, but don't even realized, what it will cost to him. Flyers have two pictures of Dmitry -- at 15 of July, 2001 he is respectable inter-tourist in U.S., scientist. At 16 of July, 2001 FBI dressed him, like they used to dress a criminal types. Everyone can feel the difference. We distributed about 1,000 of flyers. One thousand of Russians, that wanna visit U.S., are now aware, that they can be put there in prison by FBI for commiting no crime. They also stated, that leading scientists (such as Alan Cox) asked everyone not to visit U.S. and even resigned from U.S. conferences because of actions against Dmitry. People were friendly and everyone were on Dmitry's side. Many of them were already aware of what is happening in U.S. Some people were misguided by mass media, telling "why do you free this guy -- he is already on the freedom". We told them the real things about Adobe actions in past and present. If someone put your own house into fire, it isn't enough just to say "I am sorry, I was wrong". I enjoy talk with one girl, that asked me to tell more about Dmitry case. After few minutes of explanation, she said me, that Dmitry Sklyarov was her classmate. She was sure, that "they" in U.S. will free Dmitry in a week. Unfortunately, there were no cams and photos from our side. But we had about 5 journalists, one from TASS agency. We are waiting forward for the photoes, that they will provide. One of them got interview from me. Among other questions I told what is EFF and about danger of DMCA precedent. - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From ross at principia.edu Wed Jul 25 04:36:47 2001 From: ross at principia.edu (Ross Brattain) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Better analogy Message-ID: <20010725113647.0D1FDA26C0@maas-neotek.potlnd1.or.home.com> Apologies if someone has already mentioned this. Instead of the lock-picking analogy I prefer to think of a window breaking analogy. Consider a brick/rock/baseball. They all can break windows. Who creates them? Brickmaker/God/Sporting Goods Manufacturer. Do we put them in jail? Do baseballs have non-infringing uses? When a baseball breaks a window is that always criminal? When you break a window with a baseball does that mean you are going to steal something? Is it illegal to tell people that you can break a window with a baseball. No, that is inferred from understanding the nature of glass. Are windows really used as security devices? Yes, bulletproof glass is an example. Do you always have to break windows? Not unless they open otherwise. Do windows really control what you can do. No you can see through them. I hope this helps. Forgive any errors, it's late. Ross Brattain ross@principia.edu From ausage at ausage.com Wed Jul 25 04:45:04 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A daily prayer Message-ID: <01072507450401.00461@frankie> Each day I pray that the Second Circuit Court of Appeals will release their decision in the the 2600 Magazine appeal finding the anti-trafficing provision of the DMCA are contratry to the United States Constitution. Were they to do that this morning, hopefully Dimitry would be on his way home tonight. -- Andrew Lawrence Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Wed Jul 25 05:05:27 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Moscow: photo & in the news. Message-ID: <00c401c11502$1bbe0380$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, All! http://www.phototass.com/info/info_base.asp?action=news_info&news_id=57141 Also on their main page. Not for Japan (why? 8-O). This is ITAR TASS information -- the major information agency, from Soviet times. - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Wed Jul 25 05:22:19 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Dmitri protest References: Message-ID: <3B5EB9FB.ABFB8FA3@sheffield.ac.uk> I consider to take a protest action "FREE DMITRY" in front of USA embassy on friday 27 July. If there is anyone willing to take part, please contact me. I think the minimum is 5 people. Time: not early, I need to come from Sheffield, say 12am. I've never taken part or organised an event like this. If someone wants to take initiative - feel free. Banners: free Dmitry want to be in jail? - attend a conference and so on. !! MY aim is ONLY to free Dmitry as soon as possible !! anton --------------------------------------- Anton Chterenlikht Research Assistant Mechanical Engineering Department Sheffield University Mappin Street Sheffield S1 3JD UK Tel: (+) 114 2227863 Fax: (+) 114 2226015 Email: a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk --------------------------------------- From pmasloch at earthlink.net Wed Jul 25 05:37:09 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Ashcroft Comments on Carnivore In-Reply-To: <20010724233457.J16094@zork.net> Message-ID: Hmmm....Carnivore and Echelon are two different things. Carnivore is a software package operated by the FBI and Echelon is a international Surveillance System operated by 5 countrys (NSA in the US). See my web page: http://www.echelonnews.net Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org Begin Jon O . quotation: > Ashcroft replied that the FBI does not have a system called Carnivore. Duh. Everyone knows Echelon is owned by the NSA! -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From lgorkin1 at nyc.rr.com Wed Jul 25 05:33:44 2001 From: lgorkin1 at nyc.rr.com (Leonid Gorkin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Coverage on Russian news site (gazeta.ru) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072508334400.23126@lorien> http://www.gazeta.ru/2001/07/25/prokurormull.shtml ((In Russian)) From drumz at best.com Wed Jul 25 05:55:50 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hrmm In-Reply-To: from Len Sassaman at "Jul 24, 1 04:39:20 pm" Message-ID: <200107251255.FAA13552@shell3.ba.best.com> > http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/07/24/cyber.sheriff.idg/index.html I find the following section of this article particularly disturbing: >The San Jose CHIP unit, Ashcroft said, has proven its value in a number >of cases, including that of a hacker now serving an 18-month sentence for >violating the computer systems of the Department of Defense, NASA and >other U.S. agencies. ... Another led to guilty pleas from individuals who >were selling copyrighted software over the Internet via a Web site called >"software-inc.com," and led to what is believed to be the first-ever >criminal forfeiture of a Web site in an intellectual-property case. > >"When the site becomes the official property of the United States >government, prosecutors intend to keep it up on the Internet," Ashcroft >said. "Visitors will see a warning that the site has been seized by law >enforcement and get the clear message that cybercrime carries real >penalties for offenders." IMHO what Ashcroft is celebrating here is a significant negative development, and yet another ominous step toward totalitarianism. Federal and state asset forfeiture is one of the most bald-facedly unconstitutional processes to come down the pike in the past few decades. It was originally intended to deal with the inconvenient fact that drug prohibition creates vast profits for drug traffickers, which allows them to pay for elaborate defense strategies. Asset forfeiture short-circuits this inconvenience by allowing the government to seize any assets that it believes have been used in connection with a crime -- a definition which today is used so loosely that the feds can take pretty much anything you own (including financial assets) without any regard whatsoever for due process, and without even necessarily charging you with a crime. It's been my prediction that we would start to see asset forfeiture expanding out of the realm of drug-related (and occasionally weapons-related) cases and into the arenas of high-tech and white-collar crime -- a development which now appears to be very much a part of the Ashcroft agenda. It should trouble us all that the government can seize a domain it doesn't like, as well as the hardware that drives it, and "repurpose" it to deliver law-enforcement propaganda. IMHO this attack on the Fourth Amendment deserves our opposition every bit as much as the DMCA's attack on the First. For more information on asset forfeiture, I recommend Forfeiture Endangers American Rights at www.fear.org. Ethan -- "The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, and intolerable." -- H.L. Mencken From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Wed Jul 25 06:07:21 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] UK Dmitry protest References: <3B5EB9FB.ABFB8FA3@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3B5EC489.319FFF22@sheffield.ac.uk> What if we reschedule the action to Saturday? Will there be more attendants? anton -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: Dmitri protest Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:51:25 +0100 From: Will.Knight@rbi.co.uk To: a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk Anton Is there any chance you could reschedule this to Saturday? I think that you might get more people that way. Will. Anton Chterenlikht wrote: > I consider to take a protest action "FREE DMITRY" in front of USA embassy on friday > 27 July. If there is anyone willing to take part, please contact me. I think the > minimum is 5 people. > > Time: not early, I need to come from Sheffield, say 12am. I've never taken part or > organised an event like this. If someone wants to take initiative - feel free. > > Banners: > > free Dmitry > want to be in jail? - attend a conference > > and so on. > > !! MY aim is ONLY to free Dmitry as soon as possible !! > > anton > > --------------------------------------- > Anton Chterenlikht > Research Assistant > > Mechanical Engineering Department > Sheffield University > Mappin Street > Sheffield S1 3JD > UK > Tel: (+) 114 2227863 > Fax: (+) 114 2226015 > Email: a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk > --------------------------------------- From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Wed Jul 25 06:39:46 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] UK Dmitry protest References: <91A815FAC3C9D311A398009027DC6EDA7A402B@MENTNT3> Message-ID: <3B5ECC22.9305B737@sheffield.ac.uk> Thanks Kevin, That is very important. Maybe you know, do we need a permission for such action? anton Kevin King wrote: > There is a small problem with having the protest on Saturday > at the US Embassy. In that it is located opposite the Italian Embassy > and there is a MAJOR Genova G8 protest there at 2pm Saturday. > > After see the protest on Monday outside the Italian Embassy and > seeing how heavily that was policed. Protestor outnumbered > 4:1 by police I doubt you'll get anywhere need the embassy. > > Kevin > > > > > Anton Chterenlikht wrote: > > > > > I consider to take a protest action "FREE DMITRY" in front > > of USA embassy on friday > > > 27 July. If there is anyone willing to take part, please > > contact me. I think the > > > minimum is 5 people. > > > > > > Time: not early, I need to come from Sheffield, say 12am. > > I've never taken part or > > > organised an event like this. If someone wants to take > > initiative - feel free. > > > > > > Banners: > > > > > > free Dmitry > > > want to be in jail? - attend a conference > > > > > > and so on. > > > > > > !! MY aim is ONLY to free Dmitry as soon as possible !! > > > > > > anton > > >> From adam at deprince.net Wed Jul 25 06:46:14 2001 From: adam at deprince.net (adam@deprince.net) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What else could Adobe do? and the next round of protests In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Victor Piterbarg wrote: > Hi, > > Now that Adobe has allegedly reversed it's stance, it became pretty obvious > to me that there's nothing else that they could do. They essentially got the > best of both worlds. The public outrage against them has been calmed, and > Dmitry is still in jail. Have they done anything to actually help Dmitry? I > don't think so. It seems that "withdrawing the complaint" has rather dubious > benefits. #include Adobe still needs to be a target of protests. While it would seem that they had a change of heart, I suspect that the motivation might be, at least unconsciously, far more insidious. Adobe benefits little by Dmitry's incarceration, they are really only interested in a test case of the DMCA. By "backing down" they get to "eat their cake and have it too". They get their test case at Dmitri's expense, and they get to shed the public criticism. Contributing to his defense would be the morally correct thing to do. Unfortunately, corporations are fictional entities owned by collections of entities for profit. Their charters and organization makes any thought beyond "the cash grab" next to impossible. So, to get Adobe to change its stance on the DMCA and contribute to Dmitri's defense, one needs to put pressure on them via the only route that matters to them. Their customers and investors. How to put pressure on their customers? The boycott is a good start. It is a bit limited however as many art professionals perceive that their software is the "industry standard" and no alternative exists. So alternatives need to be created for operating systems that artists use (Mac, mac and mac). Apple's Darwin will likely make this easy. Don't encourage their formats. Don't use pdf's, put a png or jpg of the page on your site instead, if you must. I'm currently looking into reviving the development of idvi (a java applet based dvi viewer). How to put pressure on their investors? Don't call up enmass and threaten to sell your shares, the PR department will only perceive that as a good opportunity to buy. Ownership = power. Look into how many shares you need to vote. Depending on the charter, a single share may be sufficient. It is better to own part of the company and vote than it is to sell and help enrich a bargain hunter. There are several "socially conscientious" mutual funds. Write to them. They probably won't sell their holdings (won't do much good except enrich bargain hunters). But they will vote their shares. Find out the rules for revoking a corporate charter. A long time ago in US history people were skeptical about corporations. Charters were hard to come by and easy to revoke if the corporation didn't serve the public interest. Attitudes have changed since then, but it won't hurt to get a lawyer and find out how to go about tring to get their charter revoked. Likely to fail, but good pucker factor for their officers and lawyers. I think charter revocation has become popular in Pennsylvania again. But then, who actually incorporates there :-) Take this advice with a grain of salt, I really don't know what I'm talking about. These efforts should be collective and with the help/advice of an attorney. Cheers - Adam > > If Adobe really reversed it's stance they could have shown it by > contributing something to Dmitry's legal fund. Obviously to demand that from > Adobe would border on extortion, but if they truly wanted to make amends, > they could have done something to that effect. > > We need to organize the next round of protests that will target the > organizations that can actually give orders to release Dmitry. And we need > to do it as soon as possible. I am afraid that the "victory" against Adobe > might reduce the momentum that we've gained up to this point. I hope that > will not be the case. The sooner we organize the second round of nationwide > protests, the better. We need to show that we are not going to go away until > we get what we want. Most importantly we need to show that we will not be > placated by impotent gestures. > > -Victor > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From adam at deprince.net Wed Jul 25 07:03:45 2001 From: adam at deprince.net (adam@deprince.net) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] He's free.... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20010725100034.D29863@lemuria.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Tom wrote: > On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:47:29PM -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote: > > > I guess the idea that there are tools in my home that can be used for legal and > > > illegal uses makes the most sense in understanding the arguments here. > > > Everything from cd burners to bongs are sold legally with the express intent > > > being legal uses. > > the point is that nothing is illegal just because illegal uses exist. Not entirely true. Burgler tools are an example of items that are illegal in many jurisdictions solely because of the potential for illegal uses. It is important to realize that the State _can_ and does regulate things because an illegal use exists. Cars, guns, knives are all items regulated out of fear of illegal use. The difference in this case is based on the _nature_ of software. A car, gun or knife is a physical object. Software isn't. Software is a conversation recorded to a recording device (i.e. hardrive) for consumption by another person or machine. The stance that we need to take is: * Programs are speech between computer programmers. * The obscurity of the speech or language is not grounds for removal of constitutional protection. * The fact that a machine can understand it is not grounds for removal of constitutional protection. * The fact that skillfully created speeches, when followed by the computer, give the perception that software is an object (i.e. icon on the screen) is not grounds for removal of constitutional protection. * The fact that the speech advocates the performance of an act that could be in violation of the law is not grounds for removal of constituional protection. Grab a book on constitutional law. You will find that (some) speech advocating actions that might be illegal is okay, what isn't okay is actually doing what the speech describes. Applied here, the software is cool, running it outside of the fair use doctrine isn't. Lets face it. Every other field's artistic expression is considered constituionally protected speech. Its about time that we asked for the same rights for our artistic expression. - Adam > you can kill someone with pretty much everything (including pens), yet > nobody would request large portions of our stuff be made illegal > because of that - unless we're talking software, were suddenly things > work different. > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From peri at logorrhea.com Wed Jul 25 00:04:04 2001 From: peri at logorrhea.com (John Kew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [SLO-protest] DMITRY-DMCA PROTEST -- FREE PIZZA Message-ID: <0107250004040Y.04275@moons.logorrhea.com> ************ PROTEST THURSDAY July 26th ************ There will be a "Free Dmitry, Repeal the DMCA" protest this Thursday at Farmers market. We will meet in front of the Fremont theater at 7 PM. A number of flyers will be available to protesters, however you are encouraged to use your own creativity. Existing flyers which have been used in other protests are available at: http://two-bit.northpark.edu/free-sklyarov/free-sklyarov-chi-sm.jpg and http://www.paultopia.net/adobe/flyer.html ************ SIGN MAKING PARTY -- FREE PIZZA ************ There will also be a sign making party at my house (http://www.logorrhea.com/images/myhouse.jpg) tonight (Wednesday July 25th) at 8PM. Bring whatever sign making materials you need and I'll buy the pizza. You guys bring drinks. Contact John Kew at peri@logorrhea.com or at (805)550-0681 for more information. Please forward this to all@earth _______________________________________________ SLO-protest mailing list SLO-protest@lists.geekresearch.com http://lists.geekresearch.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/slo-protest ------------------------------------------------------- From declan at well.com Wed Jul 25 07:09:33 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010724221117.00b22ee8@earthlink.net>; from jstyre@jstyre.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 10:17:38PM -0700 References: <20010724164947.E8769@networkcommand.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010724220542.03127d80@pop3.norton.antivirus> <4.3.2.7.2.20010724221117.00b22ee8@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20010725100933.A8539@cluebot.com> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 10:17:38PM -0700, James S. Tyre wrote: > "Interesting" coincidence: > > According to http://publishers.org/home/abouta/officers.htm the outside law > firm for AAP is Weil, Gotschal & Manges. In the _Felten_ case, they > represent hacked technology proponent Verance. In the California State > Court DeCSS case (not to be confused with the New York federal court 2600 > case), they represent the DVD Copy Control Association, which alleges that > the defendants stole their trade secrets. > > Not that this would have any influence on the advice they give to AAP. Problem: Generally trade associations don't ask outside counsel for advice before drafting a press release. Usually not even when taking stands on legislation -- that's why you have (as AAP does) in house VPs who are lawyers and lobbyists. This might actually be just a coincidence. -Declan From tom at lemuria.org Wed Jul 25 07:21:48 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What else could Adobe do? and the next round of protests In-Reply-To: ; from adam@deprince.net on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 09:46:14AM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010725162146.A30536@lemuria.org> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 09:46:14AM -0400, adam@deprince.net wrote: > Find out the rules for revoking a corporate charter. A long time ago in > US history people were skeptical about corporations. Charters were hard > to come by and easy to revoke if the corporation didn't serve the public > interest. Attitudes have changed since then, but it won't hurt to get a > lawyer and find out how to go about tring to get their charter revoked. > Likely to fail, but good pucker factor for their officers and lawyers. I > think charter revocation has become popular in Pennsylvania again. But > then, who actually incorporates there :-) charter revocation is the corporate equivalent of the death sentence. there's two problems with that: a) I don't quite think they qualify for THAT, yet. b) reserve the heavy blades for the heavy crimes, or they get dull From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Wed Jul 25 07:18:29 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] UK ACTION References: <3B5D4268.5610F172@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: <01a601c11514$b19c3c20$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, Anton! > 2. People who live in or near London, Belfast, Cardiff, Edinborough please > consider > a protest action "FREE DMITRY" I really like to hear from you about actions for Dmitry releasing in UK! After the first action in Moscow we have a group of activists and looking forward for next actions, until Dmitry willn't be released. Protest must go on! - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From tom at lemuria.org Wed Jul 25 07:33:30 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [SLO-protest] DMITRY-DMCA PROTEST -- FREE PIZZA In-Reply-To: <0107250004040Y.04275@moons.logorrhea.com>; from peri@logorrhea.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 12:04:04AM -0700 References: <0107250004040Y.04275@moons.logorrhea.com> Message-ID: <20010725163328.B30536@lemuria.org> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 12:04:04AM -0700, John Kew wrote: > There will be a "Free Dmitry, Repeal the DMCA" protest this Thursday at > Farmers market. We will meet in front of the Fremont theater at 7 PM. it may be a very good idea to decide NOW on the next protest after that and put date, time and location on the flyers. maybe some people who you got convinced will then attend. as it is, we are limited to subscribers of this list, which at last count numbered 500 WORLDWIDE. From ausage at ausage.com Wed Jul 25 07:28:29 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] More postive press coverage Message-ID: <01072510282900.01477@frankie> http://www.business2.com/articles/web/0,1653,16542,00.html From pmasloch at earthlink.net Wed Jul 25 07:36:31 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] SirCam Virus Message-ID: Somebodys PC here on the list is infected with the SirCam Virus. Please make sure you have your AV Software updated. Thank you Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 25 07:37:00 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] salon.com In-Reply-To: <010e01c114fa$19acf770$6901a8c0@galoot> References: <010e01c114fa$19acf770$6901a8c0@galoot> Message-ID: <878zhd9isz.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "PS" == Penelope Schenk writes: PS> Though the organization canceled a formal protest it had PS> planned outside Adobe's headquarters Monday, about 30 people PS> gathered anyway to complain that Sklyarov was unfairly PS> arrested because he works for a company engaged in a business PS> dispute with Adobe." It's weird, because I was there at 10:30, half an hour before the show was supposed to start, and there were already more than 30 people there. And by the time I left, TWO HOURS after the show was supposed to be over, there were still about 50 people there. So, I can't imagine when this reporter counted 30 people. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From pmasloch at earthlink.net Wed Jul 25 07:39:06 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [SLO-protest] DMITRY-DMCA PROTEST -- FREE PIZZA In-Reply-To: <20010725163328.B30536@lemuria.org> Message-ID: What do you think how many subscribers are from the FBI? :-))) Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 12:04:04AM -0700, John Kew wrote: > There will be a "Free Dmitry, Repeal the DMCA" protest this Thursday at > Farmers market. We will meet in front of the Fremont theater at 7 PM. it may be a very good idea to decide NOW on the next protest after that and put date, time and location on the flyers. maybe some people who you got convinced will then attend. as it is, we are limited to subscribers of this list, which at last count numbered 500 WORLDWIDE. _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 25 07:39:35 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Moscow demonstration success. In-Reply-To: <005001c114fc$9d2d7280$0100a8c0@sharhan> References: <005001c114fc$9d2d7280$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: <874rs19ioo.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "IVV" == Ilya V Vasilyev writes: IVV> Hi, All! Moscow demonstration success. Sounds like it. Wow. That's the best thing I've heard all day. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From pschenk at chevalet.net Wed Jul 25 07:42:25 2001 From: pschenk at chevalet.net (Penelope Schenk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] SirCam Virus References: Message-ID: <009001c11518$1b52bc90$0c03010a@COPPER> Apparently the FBI "cyber-protection" unit has it as well... http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2798011,00.html?chkpt=zdnnp1tp 02 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter" To: "Free-Sklyarov@Zork. Net" Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 10:36 AM Subject: [free-sklyarov] SirCam Virus > Somebodys PC here on the list is infected with the SirCam Virus. Please > make sure you have > your AV Software updated. > Thank you > Peter > > > Free Dmitry Sklyarov > Stop the DMCA > ---------------------------------------- > http://www.freesklyarov.org > http://www.boycottadobe.org > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From declan at well.com Wed Jul 25 07:31:25 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... Message-ID: <20010725103125.F8972@cluebot.com> ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- From: Declan McCullagh To: politech@politechbot.com Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:24:10 -0400 X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45522,00.html Congress No Haven for Hackers By Declan McCullagh (declan@wired.com) 2:00 a.m. July 25, 2001 PDT WASHINGTON -- Even as the world's geeks march against the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, key legislators and lobbyists are dismissing concerns about the controversial law as hyperbole. The law that led to the arrest of Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov last week and an immediate outcry among programmers continues to enjoy remarkably broad support on Capitol Hill. No bill has yet been introduced in Congress to amend the DMCA for one simple reason: Official Washington loves the law precisely as much as hackers and programmers despise it. "The law is performing the way we hoped," said Rep. Howard Coble (R-North Carolina), chairman of the House Judiciary subcommittee on intellectual property. The FBI arrested Sklyarov last week in Las Vegas for allegedly "trafficking" in software that circumvents the copy protection techniques that Adobe uses in its e-book format. Under the DMCA, selling such software is a federal felony punishable by up to five years in prison and a fine of $500,000. "As far as I know there have been very few complaints from intellectual property holders," Coble, the chief sponsor of the DMCA, said in an interview Tuesday. "I am also encouraged by the Department of Justice's actions in this matter to enforce the law." When Congress approved the DMCA in October 1998 after about a year's worth of little-noticed debate and negotiations, it was hardly a controversial bill. The Senate agreed to it unanimously, and a unanimous House approved it by voice vote, then bypassed a procedural step that would have delayed the DMCA's enactment. Since the House procedure says attempts to rewrite copyright law must start in Coble's subcommittee, the odds of a DMCA rewrite in Congress' lower chamber seem remote. Coble's counterpart in the Senate, California Democrat Dianne Feinstein, feels the same way. "We need to protect copyrights and this law was designed to do that," said Howard Gantman, a spokesman for Feinstein, who chairs the Senate Judiciary subcommittee on technology. "She's not looking to change it." [...] But in the world of Washington politics, geektivists are woefully outnumbered by the natives who populate and influence confirmation hearings: Corporate, nonprofit and trade association lobbyists. "We believe that a careful effort was made by Congress to balance the rights of intellectual property owners and the rights of intellectual property consumers," says Allan Adler, vice president at the Association of American Publishers, which applauded Sklyarov's arrest last week. [...] The Free-Dmitry movement argues that programmers should not be prosecuted for creating software that can circumvent copyright protection -- since such tools have many legitimate uses, such as reading an e-book on another computer, as well. But DMCA aficionados say there are precedents for broad prohibitions on selling devices that can have both legitimate and illegitimate uses. Current federal law makes it a felony to own, distribute or advertise for sale bugging or wiretapping devices that are "primary useful for the purpose of surreptitious interception of wire, oral or electronic communications." That applies even to parents who might want to monitor what their young children are doing, or to other commonplace uses. You're also not allowed to possess hardware or software such as cell phone cloning devices that let you "obtain telecommunications service without authorization" -- even if your motives are pure. [...] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- End forwarded message ----- From pedro at tastytronic.net Wed Jul 25 08:13:40 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Monday Recap Message-ID: <20010725101340.B23128@tastytronic.net> Ok, here's the recap from Chicago in Monday. (I realize it's late now, but just so you know.) Monday morning, people arrived downtown at the plaza by the Dirksen federal building between 11:00 and 11:30. Between 20 and 25 people filtered in, including one guy who was at Grant Park in 1968 and one high-school freshman! (http://www.aaronsw.com/) We didn't chant, or march, but instead focused on hitting all the high traffic areas on the block with signs and posters. Within an hour and a half, we had passed out around 1,000 copies of the JPEG poster I made, some with press releases on the back, some with cards with representative's addresses, etc. on them, some with both. Good collaborative work from the chicago list people; almost everyone brought copies of the poster, and we had zero attention from the CPD (Gno Gnus is Good Gnus). Towards the end of the alloted time we were running out of posters so someone ran and printed up 250 more, of which we probably passed out half before it was time to go. All in all, we got a good reaction from the crowd. I had several extended conversations with people regarding the situation, and many people were genuinely concerned. We felt that most of the people we knew did not even know the DMCA existed; and so we felt that education and presence were more important that "raising hell" about an issue that nobody knew about. (Wheras this was totally appropriate in San Jose.) We did not get any press coverage, other than a lone photographer, which was a disappointment. I'm not sure why exactly, but I'm sure that part of it was that the concurrent protest at the Italian consulate regarding Genoa -- I know there were crews there. Pictures are here: http://two-bit.ufo.chicago.il.us/~pictures/ I gave some of them useful names. If anyone wants to use any of them, let me know and I'll make sure it's cool with the photographers. Regardless, we felt good about it, and many people are willing to do a second round -- I think we'll even get a better response now that Adobe has called for his release. sklyarov-chicago is still getting a few submissions a day, and a couple totally unconnected individuals have emailed their support to us. Also, regarding a second round, we'll have a lot more time to prepare, and that's good. We really liked having the jpeg on one side and info on the back, but originally, I didn't even have a URL on the poster, much less local contact info. I'm going to edit that up before I leave town tomorrow, so that people who want to add information will be welcome to do so -- it felt right to give out legislator's information wiht the posters -- in fact, it killed me that I didn't think to do that ahead of time. At this point it doesn't matter whether Adobe did that just to "wash their hands" -- in the proverbial "court of public opinion," this will put pressure back on the federal government for holding and potentially trying a political prisoner that *nobody* wants imprisoned. We are not going to focus on boycotting adobe, but again on releasing Dmitry and getting the DMCA repealed. I can't guarantee that we are going to be on for next monday, but that information will unfold as today and tomorrow roll along. Thanks to everyone who participated in Chicago and around the world, as well as to the EFF for their work in the lawyer pit of the legal arena. Free Dmitry, pedro -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- FBI has imprisioned a Russian software engineer for promoting and teaching the concept of "fair use". Read more: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From pedro at tastytronic.net Wed Jul 25 08:19:48 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [sklyarov-chicago] Chicago Monday Recap In-Reply-To: <20010725101340.B23128@tastytronic.net>; from pedro@tastytronic.net on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 10:13:40AM -0500 References: <20010725101340.B23128@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: <20010725101948.D23128@tastytronic.net> Quoting Peter A. Peterson II: > Pictures are here: http://two-bit.ufo.chicago.il.us/~pictures/ > > I gave some of them useful names. If anyone wants to use any of them, > let me know and I'll make sure it's cool with the photographers. If people want to let me know who they are and where they appear in photos, I'll change the names, if they so desire. pedro From thedward at barsoom.net Wed Jul 25 08:24:11 2001 From: thedward at barsoom.net (the Edward Blevins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Further Austin Protests? Message-ID: <20010725102411.P9555@barsoom.net> Are there any further protests planned yet for the Austin area? Is there a local mailing list? Thanks a bunch. -- the Edward Blevins (512) 436-9576 /(0\ mi tavla fo la lojban .i xu do go'i? \1)/ .i.e'u ko vitke fi zoi .url. http://www.lojban.org .url. Today is Sweetmorn, the 60th day of Confusion, 3167. From marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca Wed Jul 25 08:30:30 2001 From: marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca (Austin Hook) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Arguments from consumer rights pov In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010725030550.00a458b0@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Christopher R. Maden wrote: > >may further take away more fractions of your potential sale value. Of > >course, if I had no intention whatsoever to buy it from you in the first > >place, and I do not intend to distribute it to others, then you lose nothing > >letting me copy it. > > This last point isn't *quite* true. Even if you didn't intend to buy it, > there are two damages caused by your copying. One is that the perceived > value of a scarce resource is lowered; people place a value on having > something that not everyone else has (such as limited editions) or on being > able to own things that have a high cost of entry. Think again. That might be true with stamps or antique cars, but they are special cases. So far there is not much of a collector's market in old software. And that's the only kind of market that exhibits that kind of value system. With software, it's almost always the exact reverse. The more people that have it, the more the other guys want it. Keeping up with the Joneses and all. That's why software piracy often helps more than it hurts, or because of the pluses and minuses is often neutral. It is not the normal case of a scarce resource, like water or energy, except as artificially constrained. Like food in the world to day. One of the great crimes is that every where are supluses, except where the people are starving to death. Austin Hook Calgary From esper at sherohman.org Wed Jul 25 08:28:00 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Better crypto for eBooks? In-Reply-To: <20010724155918.A23173@research.netsol.com>; from raldi@research.netsol.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:59:18PM -0400 References: <200107241506.KAA16843@og1.olagrande.net> <20010724145145.M31377@sherohman.org> <20010724155918.A23173@research.netsol.com> Message-ID: <20010725102800.A8674@sherohman.org> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:59:18PM -0400, Mike Schiraldi wrote: > On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 02:51:46PM -0500, Dave Sherohman wrote: > > The application refuses to send the (still encrypted) data to any driver > > that it can't verify as also being S.A.P.-compliant. > > If the audio is still encrypted, why does the driver care who it passes it > to, since only the speakers can presumably decrypt it? Noncompliant software could analyze the encrypted data (or record it for later analysis) to provide a way to decrypt it. "Compliant" in this case seems to just mean "signed a contract promising not to do anything the publisher hasn't explicitly agreed to with the data". As for bypassing this with a microphone in front of the speakers, the content industry doesn't seem to think it can control analog copying yet, plus it's a lower priority since analog copies are inherently imperfect. Digital is what scares them because it can be used to make perfect copies. It seems to me that the entire point of SAP is to ensure that an unencrypted digital copy of the data is never allowed to exist; include the ability to lock the encryption to specific hardware, and this would make unauthorized digital copies impossible. (Until someone breaks the encryption, of course.) And, naturally, this is all for your good and mine. They would never want to screw us over... -- With the arrest of Dimitry Sklyarov it has become apparent that it is not safe for non US software engineers to visit the United States. - Alan Cox "To prevent unauthorized reading..." - Adobe eBook reader license From jwb235 at nyu.edu Wed Jul 25 08:35:00 2001 From: jwb235 at nyu.edu (Jon Bober) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] On the Case (Please read it and give me a feedback/input) In-Reply-To: <009901c114f2$3891b980$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725110750.035f4ca0@pop.nyu.edu> At 03:11 AM 7/25/01 -0700, you wrote: >After talking with some friends of mine, and long discussions; here is >what I came up with. >Even, I feel that US has no right arresting Sklyarov; but under DMCA the >FBI "did" have the right to arrest Sklyarov. >So, we pretty much don't have a case against the DoJ and the chances of >Sklyarov getting the jail time is high. >(I don't like this anymore then you guys do; but that is what might happen) i think that that is quite a questionable statement. 1st, the DMCA says: `(a) VIOLATIONS REGARDING CIRCUMVENTION OF TECHNOLOGICAL MEASURES- (1)(A) No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. The prohibition contained in the preceding sentence shall take effect at the end of the 2-year period beginning on the date of the enactment of this chapter. `(B) The prohibition contained in subparagraph (A) shall not apply to persons who are users of a copyrighted work which is in a particular class of works, if such persons are, or are likely to be in the succeeding 3-year period, adversely affected by virtue of such prohibition in their ability to make noninfringing uses of that particular class of works under this title, as determined under subparagraph (C). the acrobat ebook protection prohibits many noninfringing uses of ebooks. as often said before, someone might want to read the book on a laptop in the park. someone who doesn't have an internet connection (those people still exist) might want to but a book on a friend's computer and transfer it to their own. thus, it could easily be found that the prohibition of circumvention does not apply in this case. i think that the section of the DMCA that was unarguably violated here was: `(2) No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that-- `(A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; `(B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; or `(C) is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that person's knowledge for use in circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. however, the company, not the employee, is what should be found guilty of breaking this law. adobe had sklyarov arrested because they knew that they would have no luck in a civil suit with a russian company. imagine if monopoly laws had been written slightly differently, and bill gates was arrested for abuse of monopoly powers. so, as far is i am concerned, it is not a simple issue of "sklyarov broke the law." if adobe wanted to be truly logical and legal, perhaps they should have gone after the company that was distributing the product here, in this country, where this country's laws apply. bober. From sonjat at cs.unm.edu Wed Jul 25 08:48:39 2001 From: sonjat at cs.unm.edu (Sonja V. Tideman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP Message-ID: Hello, I am sure veryone has seen this, but I found this too ironic to pass up. This is from the AAP's website: Intellectual Freedom: American Publishers are deeply involved in the increasingly difficult fight to protect the basic right of free expression, at home and abroad. The freedom to read and the freedom to publish must be defended wherever and whenever they are challenged. Members of the AAP are actively engaged in the defense of free expression through the AAP Freedom to Read Committee and the International Freedom to Publish Committee. Notice "freedom to read"..an act which Adobe considers illegal unless it is done under specific circumstances... Sonja From pmasloch at earthlink.net Wed Jul 25 08:52:59 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] On the Case (Please read it and give me a feedback/input) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725110750.035f4ca0@pop.nyu.edu> Message-ID: Do we know for sure that Dmitry is not also the Co-owner of the company? If not then he developed the software in the name of the company and can not held responsible for what the company is doing. Ergo the FBI doesn't have the right to arrest him in the first place. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org At 03:11 AM 7/25/01 -0700, you wrote: >After talking with some friends of mine, and long discussions; here is >what I came up with. >Even, I feel that US has no right arresting Sklyarov; but under DMCA the >FBI "did" have the right to arrest Sklyarov. >So, we pretty much don't have a case against the DoJ and the chances of >Sklyarov getting the jail time is high. >(I don't like this anymore then you guys do; but that is what might happen) i think that that is quite a questionable statement. 1st, the DMCA says: `(a) VIOLATIONS REGARDING CIRCUMVENTION OF TECHNOLOGICAL MEASURES- (1)(A) No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. The prohibition contained in the preceding sentence shall take effect at the end of the 2-year period beginning on the date of the enactment of this chapter. `(B) The prohibition contained in subparagraph (A) shall not apply to persons who are users of a copyrighted work which is in a particular class of works, if such persons are, or are likely to be in the succeeding 3-year period, adversely affected by virtue of such prohibition in their ability to make noninfringing uses of that particular class of works under this title, as determined under subparagraph (C). the acrobat ebook protection prohibits many noninfringing uses of ebooks. as often said before, someone might want to read the book on a laptop in the park. someone who doesn't have an internet connection (those people still exist) might want to but a book on a friend's computer and transfer it to their own. thus, it could easily be found that the prohibition of circumvention does not apply in this case. i think that the section of the DMCA that was unarguably violated here was: `(2) No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that-- `(A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; `(B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; or `(C) is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that person's knowledge for use in circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. however, the company, not the employee, is what should be found guilty of breaking this law. adobe had sklyarov arrested because they knew that they would have no luck in a civil suit with a russian company. imagine if monopoly laws had been written slightly differently, and bill gates was arrested for abuse of monopoly powers. so, as far is i am concerned, it is not a simple issue of "sklyarov broke the law." if adobe wanted to be truly logical and legal, perhaps they should have gone after the company that was distributing the product here, in this country, where this country's laws apply. bober. _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From honig at sprynet.com Tue Jul 24 17:12:53 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fox letter about the DMCA to ISPs In-Reply-To: References: <20010724150134.F7908@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010724171253.009b7aa0@pop.sprynet.com> At 03:45 PM 7/24/01 -0700, Len Sassaman wrote: >I got one of these at the web hosting company I worked at when Star Wars, >Episode I came out. (Actually, it was a few weeks before it came out.) It would be amusing to create very large files named Planet_of_the_Apes hosted on very slow servers ----servers slow enough to discourage actual downloaders, but existent enough to annoy Fox. 'Servers' includes numerous P2P tools, so you can do this at home. Extra credit if the very large files are uniformly distributed noise. Extra credit if the noise has the appropriate headers so it looks like a Divx or whatever is a plausible format. Perfectly legal of course. From honig at sprynet.com Tue Jul 24 17:16:29 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] psychology: differences between the FBI/DoJ and Adobe In-Reply-To: <004601c11494$e7d69680$aa7ba8c0@snvl1.sfba.home.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010724171629.009b7780@pop.sprynet.com> At 04:03 PM 7/24/01 -0700, kathryn@ksml.com wrote: >A few reasons why I think the next step- dealing with the FBI/DoJ- will be >harder. > >Think of a time you had to admit you were wrong. Did you first dig in your >heels a little? Would you have admitted your mistake if other people were >there? Last time I fucked up, no one was in jail over it losing bonding time with his kids. It would be *easier* to admit to if I, like the FBI, can't be sued (by a russkie, no less!) From xeni at xeni.net Wed Jul 25 08:59:33 2001 From: xeni at xeni.net (Xeni Jardin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA questions? reference: text, in full, online In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725110750.035f4ca0@pop.nyu.edu> Message-ID: Those of you who've posted questions to the list about what the DMCA does or doesn't state might find it helpful to check out the law in its entirety here (pdf) http://www.loc.gov/copyright/legislation/dmca.pdf, or on the EFF's site (text) http://www.eff.org/ip/DMCA/hr2281_dmca_law_19981020_pl105-304.html Xeni Jardin VP, Conferences + Senior Writer Silicon Alley Reporter Magazine $ Online + email publications: www.siliconalleydaily.com www.digitalcoastdaily.com www.digitalmusicweekly.com www.wirelessreporter.com www.ihealthcareweekly.com From mkbilbo at cdcla.com Wed Jul 25 09:06:07 2001 From: mkbilbo at cdcla.com (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... References: <20010725103125.F8972@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <020601c11523$b75627c0$3088d790@tti.com> That DOES it. I am SO sick and tired of being made into a "criminal." I'd like to see these marketing frat boy types run the digital infrastructure WITHOUT us. We need to organize. Seriously. Before they turn IT into a sweat shop, slave industry or some damn thing. I would just love to see us organized to the point we could have a "Internet down day." Turn the thing OFF and then tell the marketing droids and excutwits "hey, you want it, you make the funny boxes go." Mark (steaming) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Declan McCullagh" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 7:31 AM Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... > > > ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- > > From: Declan McCullagh > To: politech@politechbot.com > Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:24:10 -0400 > X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ > > > > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45522,00.html > > Congress No Haven for Hackers > By Declan McCullagh (declan@wired.com) > > 2:00 a.m. July 25, 2001 PDT > > WASHINGTON -- Even as the world's geeks march against the Digital > Millennium Copyright Act, key legislators and lobbyists are dismissing > concerns about the controversial law as hyperbole. > > The law that led to the arrest of Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov > last week and an immediate outcry among programmers continues to enjoy > remarkably broad support on Capitol Hill. No bill has yet been > introduced in Congress to amend the DMCA for one simple reason: > Official Washington loves the law precisely as much as hackers and > programmers despise it. > > "The law is performing the way we hoped," said Rep. Howard Coble > (R-North Carolina), chairman of the House Judiciary subcommittee on > intellectual property. > > The FBI arrested Sklyarov last week in Las Vegas for allegedly > "trafficking" in software that circumvents the copy protection > techniques that Adobe uses in its e-book format. Under the DMCA, > selling such software is a federal felony punishable by up to five > years in prison and a fine of $500,000. > > "As far as I know there have been very few complaints from > intellectual property holders," Coble, the chief sponsor of the DMCA, > said in an interview Tuesday. "I am also encouraged by the Department > of Justice's actions in this matter to enforce the law." > > When Congress approved the DMCA in October 1998 after about a year's > worth of little-noticed debate and negotiations, it was hardly a > controversial bill. The Senate agreed to it unanimously, and a > unanimous House approved it by voice vote, then bypassed a procedural > step that would have delayed the DMCA's enactment. > > Since the House procedure says attempts to rewrite copyright law must > start in Coble's subcommittee, the odds of a DMCA rewrite in Congress' > lower chamber seem remote. > > Coble's counterpart in the Senate, California Democrat Dianne > Feinstein, feels the same way. > > "We need to protect copyrights and this law was designed to do that," > said Howard Gantman, a spokesman for Feinstein, who chairs the Senate > Judiciary subcommittee on technology. "She's not looking to change > it." > > [...] > > But in the world of Washington politics, geektivists are woefully > outnumbered by the natives who populate and influence confirmation > hearings: Corporate, nonprofit and trade association lobbyists. > > "We believe that a careful effort was made by Congress to balance the > rights of intellectual property owners and the rights of intellectual > property consumers," says Allan Adler, vice president at the > Association of American Publishers, which applauded Sklyarov's arrest > last week. > > [...] > > The Free-Dmitry movement argues that programmers should not be > prosecuted for creating software that can circumvent copyright > protection -- since such tools have many legitimate uses, such as > reading an e-book on another computer, as well. > > But DMCA aficionados say there are precedents for broad prohibitions > on selling devices that can have both legitimate and illegitimate > uses. > > Current federal law makes it a felony to own, distribute or advertise > for sale bugging or wiretapping devices that are "primary useful for > the purpose of surreptitious interception of wire, oral or electronic > communications." That applies even to parents who might want to > monitor what their young children are doing, or to other commonplace > uses. > > You're also not allowed to possess hardware or software such as cell > phone cloning devices that let you "obtain telecommunications service > without authorization" -- even if your motives are pure. > > [...] > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list > You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. > To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html > This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jwb235 at nyu.edu Wed Jul 25 09:09:55 2001 From: jwb235 at nyu.edu (Jon Bober) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... In-Reply-To: <020601c11523$b75627c0$3088d790@tti.com> References: <20010725103125.F8972@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725120829.02454750@pop.nyu.edu> this is a thought that also occurred to me this morning on the train. i wonder just what it would take to take the internet down for a day. At 09:06 AM 7/25/01 -0700, you wrote: >That DOES it. I am SO sick and tired of being made into a "criminal." I'd >like to see these marketing frat boy types run the digital infrastructure >WITHOUT us. > >We need to organize. Seriously. Before they turn IT into a sweat shop, slave >industry or some damn thing. I would just love to see us organized to the >point we could have a "Internet down day." Turn the thing OFF and then tell >the marketing droids and excutwits "hey, you want it, you make the funny >boxes go." > >Mark (steaming) From tom at thinkpix.com Wed Jul 25 09:21:36 2001 From: tom at thinkpix.com (tom moore) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP References: Message-ID: <023901c11525$e09f8b10$3e203b40@PRODUCTION> Also from the "Too Much Irony in Your Blood Dept." Hyperion Books, an AAP member company, is currently fighting government censors over the publication of Wen Ho Lee's book, My Country Versus Me, which is an account of his arrest and persecution by the feds (Dr. Lee was the researcher arrested as the Los Alamos spy). From pedro at tastytronic.net Wed Jul 25 09:24:29 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [sklyarov-chicago] Chicago Monday Recap In-Reply-To: ; from inkblot@geocities.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:09:58AM -0500 References: <20010725101948.D23128@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: <20010725112429.J23128@tastytronic.net> Quoting Nate Riffe: > I'm the guy with the scruffy looking facial hair wearing a grey and black > Harley-Davidson T. For the sake of ease, please just send me the image file name, and I'll create the symlink. THanks! pedro -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- FBI has imprisioned a Russian software engineer for promoting and teaching the concept of "fair use". Read more: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From pmasloch at earthlink.net Wed Jul 25 09:27:11 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725120829.02454750@pop.nyu.edu> Message-ID: You just need some sys-admins who pull the plugg on the backbones.... Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org this is a thought that also occurred to me this morning on the train. i wonder just what it would take to take the internet down for a day. At 09:06 AM 7/25/01 -0700, you wrote: >That DOES it. I am SO sick and tired of being made into a "criminal." I'd >like to see these marketing frat boy types run the digital infrastructure >WITHOUT us. > >We need to organize. Seriously. Before they turn IT into a sweat shop, slave >industry or some damn thing. I would just love to see us organized to the >point we could have a "Internet down day." Turn the thing OFF and then tell >the marketing droids and excutwits "hey, you want it, you make the funny >boxes go." > >Mark (steaming) _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From wild at eff.org Wed Jul 25 09:28:38 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [DMITRY-PLAN] Moscow demonstration success. In-Reply-To: <005001c114fc$9d2d7280$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725092753.03037be0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Hey Ilya, Thanks for the wonderful news about the Moscow protest. Excellent work! Free Dmitry and Reform Section 1201 of the DMCA, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 03:24 PM 7/25/2001 +0400, Ilya V. Vasilyev wrote: >Hi, All! > >Moscow demonstration success. > >I am just from Moscow action for Dmitry Sklyarov freedom. >Civil actions have a little history in Russia, as they were >prosecuted in Soviet Union. But we managed to make whole >thing not worse, than our friends in Reno (U.S.). It was >really great! The whole action was about 2 hours. > >We had about 10 people, actively working for Dmitry Sklyarov >freedom. Place of metting was a small park at Kudrinskaja >ploshad', after 40 minutes of planning we went by Sadovoe >Kolcho to American Embassy, passing flyers to people. Half >of our side was in black because of Boston idea. In Russia >it sounds "Funeral for Civil Rights in U.S." > >At the Embassy we sneak into larger crowd of Russians (think, >above 50) and Americans, that were queued to the Embassy. >Flyers were specially designed to tell those people about >one Russian, that already visited that Embassy, wishing >to fly to America, but don't even realized, what it will >cost to him. Flyers have two pictures of Dmitry -- at >15 of July, 2001 he is respectable inter-tourist in U.S., >scientist. At 16 of July, 2001 FBI dressed him, like they >used to dress a criminal types. Everyone can feel the >difference. > >We distributed about 1,000 of flyers. One thousand of >Russians, that wanna visit U.S., are now aware, that they >can be put there in prison by FBI for commiting no crime. >They also stated, that leading scientists (such as Alan >Cox) asked everyone not to visit U.S. and even resigned >from U.S. conferences because of actions against Dmitry. > >People were friendly and everyone were on Dmitry's side. >Many of them were already aware of what is happening in U.S. >Some people were misguided by mass media, telling "why do >you free this guy -- he is already on the freedom". We told >them the real things about Adobe actions in past and present. >If someone put your own house into fire, it isn't enough >just to say "I am sorry, I was wrong". > >I enjoy talk with one girl, that asked me to tell more about >Dmitry case. After few minutes of explanation, she said me, >that Dmitry Sklyarov was her classmate. She was sure, that >"they" in U.S. will free Dmitry in a week. > >Unfortunately, there were no cams and photos from our side. >But we had about 5 journalists, one from TASS agency. We >are waiting forward for the photoes, that they will provide. >One of them got interview from me. Among other questions >I told what is EFF and about danger of DMCA precedent. > >- - - >Ilya V. Vasilyev >Civil Hackers' School >Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 >http://server23.net/user/ath/ From admin at seattle-chat.com Wed Jul 25 09:28:23 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fox letter about the DMCA to ISPs In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010724171253.009b7aa0@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: Hehe, someone wan't to put a server on a dialup? :) Actually they make a hub, for testing that allows you to restrict the bandwidth, anyone happen to own one of those, and put a server behind it on the net? :) -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of David Honig Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 5:13 PM To: Len Sassaman; Jon O . Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Fox letter about the DMCA to ISPs At 03:45 PM 7/24/01 -0700, Len Sassaman wrote: >I got one of these at the web hosting company I worked at when Star Wars, >Episode I came out. (Actually, it was a few weeks before it came out.) It would be amusing to create very large files named Planet_of_the_Apes hosted on very slow servers ----servers slow enough to discourage actual downloaders, but existent enough to annoy Fox. 'Servers' includes numerous P2P tools, so you can do this at home. Extra credit if the very large files are uniformly distributed noise. Extra credit if the noise has the appropriate headers so it looks like a Divx or whatever is a plausible format. Perfectly legal of course. _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From tom at thinkpix.com Wed Jul 25 09:37:02 2001 From: tom at thinkpix.com (tom moore) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... References: <20010725103125.F8972@cluebot.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010725120829.02454750@pop.nyu.edu> Message-ID: <025e01c11528$084ffee0$3e203b40@PRODUCTION> > i wonder just what it would take to take the internet down for a day. > Just about every third story on slashdot makes me think about this sort of thing. If anything, I think it should come off like a shrug, rather than an attack to take out the infrastructure. Just stop - stop writing software, fixing networks, patching routers... How long would it take for things to grind to a halt? I know that this is just fantasy, but between crypto restrictions, laws like the DMCA, mandated censorware, and the like, it's one a lot of people share... From tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca Wed Jul 25 09:36:31 2001 From: tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... In-Reply-To: <020601c11523$b75627c0$3088d790@tti.com> Message-ID: > We need to organize. Seriously. Before they turn IT into a sweat shop, slave > industry or some damn thing. I would just love to see us organized to the > point we could have a "Internet down day." Turn the thing OFF and then tell > the marketing droids and excutwits "hey, you want it, you make the funny > boxes go." LOL .. I love it :O) About a month ago .. the news warned of Chinese hackers attacking US gov. and corp. servers. They were some what afraid. But if the "hackers" around the world attack them .. they will be very afraid! Most of their systems are not secure enough to require a hacker .. any knowledgeable person or script kiddo can cause a lot of damage. Of course attacking is "illegal" (but it won't really matter at that point .. since thinking is illegal too), but just shutting down and/or blocking traffic through ISP's and routers would have "fun" consequences. TAA ----------------------------------------------------- Tony Abou-Assaleh Graduate Student, Department of Computer Science University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, Canada, N2L 3G1 Office: DC2503 Phone: (519) 888-4567 Ext. 3399 Email: taa@acm.org -----------------------[THE END]--------------------- On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: > That DOES it. I am SO sick and tired of being made into a "criminal." I'd > like to see these marketing frat boy types run the digital infrastructure > WITHOUT us. > > We need to organize. Seriously. Before they turn IT into a sweat shop, slave > industry or some damn thing. I would just love to see us organized to the > point we could have a "Internet down day." Turn the thing OFF and then tell > the marketing droids and excutwits "hey, you want it, you make the funny > boxes go." > > Mark (steaming) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Declan McCullagh" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 7:31 AM > Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington > loves DMCA... > > > > > > > > ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- > > > > From: Declan McCullagh > > To: politech@politechbot.com > > Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:24:10 -0400 > > X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ > > > > > > > > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45522,00.html > > > > Congress No Haven for Hackers > > By Declan McCullagh (declan@wired.com) > > > > 2:00 a.m. July 25, 2001 PDT > > > > WASHINGTON -- Even as the world's geeks march against the Digital > > Millennium Copyright Act, key legislators and lobbyists are dismissing > > concerns about the controversial law as hyperbole. > > > > The law that led to the arrest of Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov > > last week and an immediate outcry among programmers continues to enjoy > > remarkably broad support on Capitol Hill. No bill has yet been > > introduced in Congress to amend the DMCA for one simple reason: > > Official Washington loves the law precisely as much as hackers and > > programmers despise it. > > > > "The law is performing the way we hoped," said Rep. Howard Coble > > (R-North Carolina), chairman of the House Judiciary subcommittee on > > intellectual property. > > > > The FBI arrested Sklyarov last week in Las Vegas for allegedly > > "trafficking" in software that circumvents the copy protection > > techniques that Adobe uses in its e-book format. Under the DMCA, > > selling such software is a federal felony punishable by up to five > > years in prison and a fine of $500,000. > > > > "As far as I know there have been very few complaints from > > intellectual property holders," Coble, the chief sponsor of the DMCA, > > said in an interview Tuesday. "I am also encouraged by the Department > > of Justice's actions in this matter to enforce the law." > > > > When Congress approved the DMCA in October 1998 after about a year's > > worth of little-noticed debate and negotiations, it was hardly a > > controversial bill. The Senate agreed to it unanimously, and a > > unanimous House approved it by voice vote, then bypassed a procedural > > step that would have delayed the DMCA's enactment. > > > > Since the House procedure says attempts to rewrite copyright law must > > start in Coble's subcommittee, the odds of a DMCA rewrite in Congress' > > lower chamber seem remote. > > > > Coble's counterpart in the Senate, California Democrat Dianne > > Feinstein, feels the same way. > > > > "We need to protect copyrights and this law was designed to do that," > > said Howard Gantman, a spokesman for Feinstein, who chairs the Senate > > Judiciary subcommittee on technology. "She's not looking to change > > it." > > > > [...] > > > > But in the world of Washington politics, geektivists are woefully > > outnumbered by the natives who populate and influence confirmation > > hearings: Corporate, nonprofit and trade association lobbyists. > > > > "We believe that a careful effort was made by Congress to balance the > > rights of intellectual property owners and the rights of intellectual > > property consumers," says Allan Adler, vice president at the > > Association of American Publishers, which applauded Sklyarov's arrest > > last week. > > > > [...] > > > > The Free-Dmitry movement argues that programmers should not be > > prosecuted for creating software that can circumvent copyright > > protection -- since such tools have many legitimate uses, such as > > reading an e-book on another computer, as well. > > > > But DMCA aficionados say there are precedents for broad prohibitions > > on selling devices that can have both legitimate and illegitimate > > uses. > > > > Current federal law makes it a felony to own, distribute or advertise > > for sale bugging or wiretapping devices that are "primary useful for > > the purpose of surreptitious interception of wire, oral or electronic > > communications." That applies even to parents who might want to > > monitor what their young children are doing, or to other commonplace > > uses. > > > > You're also not allowed to possess hardware or software such as cell > > phone cloning devices that let you "obtain telecommunications service > > without authorization" -- even if your motives are pure. > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list > > You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. > > To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html > > This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From mkbilbo at cdcla.com Wed Jul 25 09:39:56 2001 From: mkbilbo at cdcla.com (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... References: <8BE50F29464B6D4E95F24770000D73822A6E07@vcompro-02.vcompro.com> Message-ID: <027b01c11528$709c9670$3088d790@tti.com> Nah, the Wobblies are too much for me too. I'm just tired of the IT folk being smeared and outlawed every time we turn around these days. By, of course, the very same people who couldn't boot their computers without the Help Desk. We've more power than we realize. Which may explain why the assault is so strong. But I'm just in the mood of "if you don't want what we do, fine." It would just be *so great if a group of key sysadmins went "oops, oh dear, that'll be down all day" and just shut the blasted 'Net down a day. But, anyway, I just keep wondering how long we're all going to keep putting up with being smeared as "EVIL HACKERS!!!!!" and having things like DMCA and UCITA being thrown at us. Do they expect us to be good little slaves and just stay in our cubicles making the funny boxes work while they pee on us every chance they get? And now Congress is snearing at us? DMCA is working just fine eh? Meaning it's a success in showing those geeks we can throw them in jail anytime we like? Keep them cowed and turning the crank on the economy while we strip all their rights away (along with the rights of any other of those "citizen" things that get in the way). If we're such horrible people then, gosh, I wouldn't want to keep harming them by, oh, making the Internet go. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith A. Glass" To: "Mark K. Bilbo" Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 9:23 AM Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... Well, the Wobblies (iww.org) were trying to organize an IT union. . . their politics are a bit extreme for me, but go ahead, take a look... Keith A. Glass Systems Administrator Virtual Compliance, Inc 1555 Wilson Boulevard, Suite 520 Arlington, VA, 22209 Direct: 703-340-1734 Fax: 703-340-1755 Web: http://www.vcompro.com -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Mark K. Bilbo Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 12:06 PM To: Declan McCullagh; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... That DOES it. I am SO sick and tired of being made into a "criminal." I'd like to see these marketing frat boy types run the digital infrastructure WITHOUT us. We need to organize. Seriously. Before they turn IT into a sweat shop, slave industry or some damn thing. I would just love to see us organized to the point we could have a "Internet down day." Turn the thing OFF and then tell the marketing droids and excutwits "hey, you want it, you make the funny boxes go." Mark (steaming) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Declan McCullagh" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 7:31 AM Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... > > > ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- > > From: Declan McCullagh > To: politech@politechbot.com > Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:24:10 -0400 > X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ > > > > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45522,00.html > > Congress No Haven for Hackers > By Declan McCullagh (declan@wired.com) > > 2:00 a.m. July 25, 2001 PDT > > WASHINGTON -- Even as the world's geeks march against the Digital > Millennium Copyright Act, key legislators and lobbyists are dismissing > concerns about the controversial law as hyperbole. > > The law that led to the arrest of Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov > last week and an immediate outcry among programmers continues to enjoy > remarkably broad support on Capitol Hill. No bill has yet been > introduced in Congress to amend the DMCA for one simple reason: > Official Washington loves the law precisely as much as hackers and > programmers despise it. > > "The law is performing the way we hoped," said Rep. Howard Coble > (R-North Carolina), chairman of the House Judiciary subcommittee on > intellectual property. > > The FBI arrested Sklyarov last week in Las Vegas for allegedly > "trafficking" in software that circumvents the copy protection > techniques that Adobe uses in its e-book format. Under the DMCA, > selling such software is a federal felony punishable by up to five > years in prison and a fine of $500,000. > > "As far as I know there have been very few complaints from > intellectual property holders," Coble, the chief sponsor of the DMCA, > said in an interview Tuesday. "I am also encouraged by the Department > of Justice's actions in this matter to enforce the law." > > When Congress approved the DMCA in October 1998 after about a year's > worth of little-noticed debate and negotiations, it was hardly a > controversial bill. The Senate agreed to it unanimously, and a > unanimous House approved it by voice vote, then bypassed a procedural > step that would have delayed the DMCA's enactment. > > Since the House procedure says attempts to rewrite copyright law must > start in Coble's subcommittee, the odds of a DMCA rewrite in Congress' > lower chamber seem remote. > > Coble's counterpart in the Senate, California Democrat Dianne > Feinstein, feels the same way. > > "We need to protect copyrights and this law was designed to do that," > said Howard Gantman, a spokesman for Feinstein, who chairs the Senate > Judiciary subcommittee on technology. "She's not looking to change > it." > > [...] > > But in the world of Washington politics, geektivists are woefully > outnumbered by the natives who populate and influence confirmation > hearings: Corporate, nonprofit and trade association lobbyists. > > "We believe that a careful effort was made by Congress to balance the > rights of intellectual property owners and the rights of intellectual > property consumers," says Allan Adler, vice president at the > Association of American Publishers, which applauded Sklyarov's arrest > last week. > > [...] > > The Free-Dmitry movement argues that programmers should not be > prosecuted for creating software that can circumvent copyright > protection -- since such tools have many legitimate uses, such as > reading an e-book on another computer, as well. > > But DMCA aficionados say there are precedents for broad prohibitions > on selling devices that can have both legitimate and illegitimate > uses. > > Current federal law makes it a felony to own, distribute or advertise > for sale bugging or wiretapping devices that are "primary useful for > the purpose of surreptitious interception of wire, oral or electronic > communications." That applies even to parents who might want to > monitor what their young children are doing, or to other commonplace > uses. > > You're also not allowed to possess hardware or software such as cell > phone cloning devices that let you "obtain telecommunications service > without authorization" -- even if your motives are pure. > > [...] > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - > POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list > You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. > To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html > This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From tom at lemuria.org Wed Jul 25 09:40:52 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [SLO-protest] DMITRY-DMCA PROTEST -- FREE PIZZA In-Reply-To: ; from pmasloch@earthlink.net on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 10:39:06AM -0400 References: <20010725163328.B30536@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20010725184050.A17322@lemuria.org> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 10:39:06AM -0400, Peter wrote: > What do you think how many subscribers are from the FBI? :-))) 3 to 5, I would guess. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From krw5 at qwest.net Wed Jul 25 09:45:36 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725120829.02454750@pop.nyu.edu> References: <20010725103125.F8972@cluebot.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010725120829.02454750@pop.nyu.edu> Message-ID: <0107250945360C.13167@stumpy> On Wednesday 25 July 2001 09:09, Jon Bober wrote: > this is a thought that also occurred to me this morning on the train. > > i wonder just what it would take to take the internet down for a day. > Careful. Living up (or down) to the popular misrepresentation of us should be a very last resort. The time for atlas to shrug may be near, but I don't believe it's here just yet. If the worst comes to pass, and Dmitry's sentenced to do time,I'll be the first to change hats, among other things. Fortunately that hasn't happened yet. roger From free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org Wed Jul 25 09:48:01 2001 From: free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org (Julian T. J. Midgley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725120829.02454750@pop.nyu.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Jon Bober wrote: > this is a thought that also occurred to me this morning on the train. > > i wonder just what it would take to take the internet down for a day. That's very difficult indeed. If you wanted to do it, you would need to secure the cooperation of thousands of people working for those who control the backbone bandwidth, all of whom would almost certainly stand to lose their jobs if they switched off the requisite pieces of kit for any length of time, let alone a day. I can't see us getting the necessary support from the Worldcoms and Sprints of the world to do this without people getting sacked. (It's just possible you could cause significant disruption by writing a virus/worm with a sufficiently nasty payload, but I really wouldn't recommend this). One of the most serious aspects of this case is that foreign nationals now have every reason to think twice before visiting the States, particularly if they are involved in software development or academic research in Computer Science (as Alan Cox pointed out by his resignation from Usenix). The best way to bring this matter to Congress's attention may well be to persuade them that far from being seen as a haven for Free Speech, the USA is now seen by foreigners as a place where you are likely to get sued or imprisoned for indulging in research and other activities which are considered perfectly acceptable in the rest of the Western World (and much of the East, for that matter). A sensible next approach, therefore, is to garner support amongst non-US academics and computer professionals and ask them to boycott all conferences and meetings in the US, since it is no longer a safe place for them to visit. Similarly, contact the organisers of major conferences, conventions, and technology fairs, and request that they hold their events outside the US, so that foreign nationals can visit without fear of being stung by the DMCA. Simultaneously, persuade academics within the US to protest vigorously against the DMCA and the curtailment of their intellectual freedoms that it implies, by writing to congressmen, etc. Ideally, it would be good to see letters coming from the entire computer science departments of major universities such as MIT. Start holding regular protests against the DMCA- the idea being to get these to snowball over time (as discussed in another thread). If possible, find some big players in the industry, and persuade them to publically oppose the offensive parts of the DMCA (it's just possible that the IBMs and Suns of this world, who don't have a big personal interest in copyright protection can be persuaded to do this (this one will be, I guess, very hard to achieve)). On the smaller scale, write letters to Congressmen and Senators pointing out the fact that copyright infringement itself is a crime, and that little is gained (and much is lost) if you unnecessarily also make circumventing copyright protection mechanisms a crime. To be truly effective, such an plan of action will need to be coordinated and organised, with a web site offering information on everything from the DMCA itself to the arguments against it, to how to organise protests, sample form letters and petitions, etc. There's no doubt that the effort required to overturn the DMCA will be worthwhile. Julian -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F From eric at tully.com Wed Jul 25 09:48:53 2001 From: eric at tully.com (Eric Tully) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725120829.02454750@pop.nyu.edu> References: <020601c11523$b75627c0$3088d790@tti.com> <20010725103125.F8972@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010725124853.00a8b290@208.231.13.113> At 12:09 PM 7/25/01 -0400, Jon Bober wrote: > >this is a thought that also occurred to me this morning on the train. > >i wonder just what it would take to take the internet down for a day. > It's not a realistic goal. It could be done a few different ways: 1. Get a rogue engineer who administers MAE-East or West to shut the servers down. Even if you did get an engineer to take that down, it would be back up in minutes since armed guards would have that employee removed and other employees would bring the system back up. 2. Get operators of the biggest Internet services to erase routing tables or power off routers. They have contractual obligations that they must honor and the potential lawsuits would be enormous so they would never agree to participate in this. Even if you did take down the Internet for a day, it wouldn't change Washington's mind about the DMCA. I suppose a nuclear bomb in the DC/Virginia area would take out enough peering points to put a damper on the Internet for a few years. I'm not actually recommending this as a way to urge Congress to eliminate the DMCA. - Eric From jtjm at xenoclast.org Wed Jul 25 09:55:40 2001 From: jtjm at xenoclast.org (Julian T J Midgley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: UK Dmitry protest In-Reply-To: <3B5EC489.319FFF22@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Anton Chterenlikht wrote: > What if we reschedule the action to Saturday? Will there be more attendants? I can certainly make Saturday more easily than I can Friday (and would be very willing to attend in either case), but it would appear that there is a second protest going on outside the Italian Embassy on Saturday which would divert attention somewhat. So that leaves Sunday (presumably not much point), or some time next week or next weekend. I can probably arrange a day off from work next week (more easily than I can Friday), and am also free next weekend. Would you like me to set up a mailing list for UK protestors to use to organise this? Julian -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F From free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org Wed Jul 25 09:59:30 2001 From: free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org (Julian T. J. Midgley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Julian T. J. Midgley wrote: > On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Jon Bober wrote: > > > this is a thought that also occurred to me this morning on the train. > > > > i wonder just what it would take to take the internet down for a day. Another thought, what about organising a mass IT industry strike - get whole IT departments, academics, development groups and professional services people to stage a walk out for a day? Not actually doing anything to prevent the continued operation of the networks, but not being there to repair problems when they did go wrong (and whilst away from work, using the time to stage mass protests...). Julian -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F From tom at lemuria.org Wed Jul 25 09:59:07 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fox letter about the DMCA to ISPs In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010724171253.009b7aa0@pop.sprynet.com>; from honig@sprynet.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 05:12:53PM -0700 References: <20010724150134.F7908@networkcommand.com> <3.0.6.32.20010724171253.009b7aa0@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: <20010725185904.C17322@lemuria.org> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 05:12:53PM -0700, David Honig wrote: > It would be amusing to create very large files named Planet_of_the_Apes > hosted on very slow servers ----servers slow enough to discourage actual > downloaders, but existent enough to annoy Fox. 'Servers' includes > numerous P2P tools, so you can do this at home. > > Extra credit if the very large files are uniformly distributed noise. > > Extra credit if the noise has the appropriate headers so it looks like > a Divx or whatever is a plausible format. trivial to accomplish, too. attached to this mail is an empty mpeg file (zipped). you can inflate it to any size you desire by doing (on Linux): unzip empty.zip dd if=/dev/urandom bs=1024 count=xxx >>empty.mpg where xxx is the number of KB you want to add. use 681574400 for 650 MB which is the size of a CD and would look very promising for a pirated movie. I think I qualified for all the extra score. what's the price? :)) -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: empty.zip Type: application/x-zip-compressed Size: 2330 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010725/de9b9f84/empty.bin From mkbilbo at cdcla.com Wed Jul 25 10:06:11 2001 From: mkbilbo at cdcla.com (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Next protest? References: <20010725103125.F8972@cluebot.com> <020601c11523$b75627c0$3088d790@tti.com> Message-ID: <001501c1152c$1ad697a0$3088d790@tti.com> I've gone and come down with something (spent yesterday in bed with fever and crud), so I'm on the fuzzy brain side... Is there a concensus emerging on another protest? The signals coming from the DoJ and Congress are pretty clear they're brushing us off. This is starting to look like a long haul kind of thing. Myself, I'm in favor then of picking a date a bit further out then gathering steam. There have to be people who we haven't reached yet (I know of online groups I'm part of in one way or another I haven't really badgered to get involved yet). Maybe a few choice spots and try to build up numbers? Local stuff could still go on for those who couldn't travel but I'd love to see us build some bigger rallies in a few cities. Pull in more media attention, get the message out. ESPECIALLY now that Congress has thumbed their noses at us all. Mark From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Wed Jul 25 09:51:39 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Distributed Protest Resource Message-ID: I did not see anyone respond to my request earler, so I will repeat it. I apologize if I missed it in the 250 emails I got yesterday. ;) Whoever is maintaining a list of the National/International protest organizations, please stand up. The EFF is not in a position to be the official International organizer because they are playing the diplomatic role. Boycott Adobe has been retired, and I suspect Reject Mueller will suffer a similar fate. If nobody is performing such a service, I plead that someone do so and announce their intentions to the list. The site could be plain and even fully maintained by the organizers themselves to ease the burden on updating. Having a place to coordinate actions across the country and around the world benefitted us in the first round, but in light of Declan's article about the mindset on Captiol Hill, we need to build significant momentum and mindshare to achieve the final outcome of reinstating freedom of speech and fair use in the US. Our representatives in Washington have issued us a challenge. We shouldn't be left out in the cold whenever the EFF gets a meeting or a short-term goal is accomplished. I would volunteer, but you saw what happened to my server on Monday. I also have a full plate recruiting thinking people to our cause in MN. Whoever undertakes this important task and will help us build an army of extraordinary magnitude, and will have our gratitude. Chris Moseng DMCA-minnesota From tom at lemuria.org Wed Jul 25 10:02:16 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725120829.02454750@pop.nyu.edu>; from jwb235@nyu.edu on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 12:09:55PM -0400 References: <20010725103125.F8972@cluebot.com> <020601c11523$b75627c0$3088d790@tti.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010725120829.02454750@pop.nyu.edu> Message-ID: <20010725190213.D17322@lemuria.org> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 12:09:55PM -0400, Jon Bober wrote: > this is a thought that also occurred to me this morning on the train. > > i wonder just what it would take to take the internet down for a day. the will to go to jail for it. other than that, a few determined techies in maybe a dozen key locations could take 90% of the net down. most of the eu-us traffic, for example, goes through the london exchange last I checked. -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From ggross66 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 10:08:43 2001 From: ggross66 at yahoo.com (Grant Gross) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Followup story for NewsForge.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010725170843.35811.qmail@web11201.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, all I sent a couple of these questions to the BoycottAdobe guys, but if anyone else wants to take a shot and email me privately, please do. Are there any more protests planned? I've seen mention of a couple on the email list, but I haven't seen firm plans for any? What's next? Any other plans while you've still got media attention and an active email list? Thanks, Grant ===== Grant Gross managing editor NewsForge.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From mkbilbo at cdcla.com Wed Jul 25 10:10:54 2001 From: mkbilbo at cdcla.com (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... References: <020601c11523$b75627c0$3088d790@tti.com> <20010725103125.F8972@cluebot.com> <3.0.5.32.20010725124853.00a8b290@208.231.13.113> Message-ID: <002301c1152c$c3bd1e20$3088d790@tti.com> Well, hey, I wasn't saying "let's do this." It's just a nice pipe dream of the entire IT industry saying back "oh yeah, try to run the funny boxes WITHOUT us." I'm just really tired of being made out to be the Evil! Hacker! while they also claim IT is driving a big chunk of the economy. They want it both ways. Keep the geeks cowed and turning the cranks. But, heavens, don't ever treat them like real citizens! Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Tully" To: "Jon Bober" ; "Mark K. Bilbo" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... > At 12:09 PM 7/25/01 -0400, Jon Bober wrote: > > > >this is a thought that also occurred to me this morning on the train. > > > >i wonder just what it would take to take the internet down for a day. > > > > > > > It's not a realistic goal. > > It could be done a few different ways: > > 1. Get a rogue engineer who administers MAE-East or West to shut the > servers down. Even if you did get an engineer to take that down, it would > be back up in minutes since armed guards would have that employee removed > and other employees would bring the system back up. > > 2. Get operators of the biggest Internet services to erase routing tables > or power off routers. They have contractual obligations that they must > honor and the potential lawsuits would be enormous so they would never > agree to participate in this. > > > Even if you did take down the Internet for a day, it wouldn't change > Washington's mind about the DMCA. > > > I suppose a nuclear bomb in the DC/Virginia area would take out enough > peering points to put a damper on the Internet for a few years. > > I'm not actually recommending this as a way to urge Congress to eliminate > the DMCA. > > > - Eric > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From csm at MoonGroup.com Wed Jul 25 10:11:04 2001 From: csm at MoonGroup.com (Chuck Mead) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Next protest? In-Reply-To: <001501c1152c$1ad697a0$3088d790@tti.com>; from mkbilbo@cdcla.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 10:06:11AM -0700 References: <20010725103125.F8972@cluebot.com> <020601c11523$b75627c0$3088d790@tti.com> <001501c1152c$1ad697a0$3088d790@tti.com> Message-ID: <20010725131104.P32097@stealth> * Mark K. Bilbo (mkbilbo@cdcla.com) wrote: > I've gone and come down with something (spent yesterday in bed with fever > and crud), so I'm on the fuzzy brain side... > > Is there a concensus emerging on another protest? The signals coming from > the DoJ and Congress are pretty clear they're brushing us off. This is > starting to look like a long haul kind of thing. > > Myself, I'm in favor then of picking a date a bit further out then gathering > steam. There have to be people who we haven't reached yet (I know of online > groups I'm part of in one way or another I haven't really badgered to get > involved yet). Maybe a few choice spots and try to build up numbers? > > Local stuff could still go on for those who couldn't travel but I'd love to > see us build some bigger rallies in a few cities. Pull in more media > attention, get the message out. ESPECIALLY now that Congress has thumbed > their noses at us all. It seems to me that anti-DMCA rallies might get some coverage at the Moscone center... there's a show from 26-30 August that might be appropriate... it would also guarantee that you could get people from out of state to join up... -- Have U seen the dirty bird? | The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the http://www.moongroup.com | needs of an expanding bureaucracy. Kernel 2.4.7 - i686 cpu | | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010725/060fa4a1/attachment.pgp From pmasloch at earthlink.net Wed Jul 25 10:17:15 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fox letter about the DMCA to ISPs In-Reply-To: <20010725185904.C17322@lemuria.org> Message-ID: the price? probably getting arrested from the FBI because of threatening the national security........ Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Tom Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 12:59 PM To: David Honig Cc: Len Sassaman; Jon O .; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Fox letter about the DMCA to ISPs On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 05:12:53PM -0700, David Honig wrote: > It would be amusing to create very large files named Planet_of_the_Apes > hosted on very slow servers ----servers slow enough to discourage actual > downloaders, but existent enough to annoy Fox. 'Servers' includes > numerous P2P tools, so you can do this at home. > > Extra credit if the very large files are uniformly distributed noise. > > Extra credit if the noise has the appropriate headers so it looks like > a Divx or whatever is a plausible format. trivial to accomplish, too. attached to this mail is an empty mpeg file (zipped). you can inflate it to any size you desire by doing (on Linux): unzip empty.zip dd if=/dev/urandom bs=1024 count=xxx >>empty.mpg where xxx is the number of KB you want to add. use 681574400 for 650 MB which is the size of a CD and would look very promising for a pirated movie. I think I qualified for all the extra score. what's the price? :)) -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From sklyarov at lethe.com Wed Jul 25 10:16:39 2001 From: sklyarov at lethe.com (Kevin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Arguments from consumer rights pov References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010725030550.00a458b0@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <004a01c1152d$930207e0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher R. Maden" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 3:14 AM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Arguments from consumer rights pov > This last point isn't *quite* true. Even if you didn't intend to buy it, > there are two damages caused by your copying. One is that the perceived > value of a scarce resource is lowered; people place a value on having This point isn't *quite* true either. There is no real scarcity, only an artifical scarcity created by the grant of a limited monopoly. Free Dmitry you dumb son-of-a-bitch. - Joe Pesci, Lethal Weapon 2 From drumz at best.com Wed Jul 25 10:21:51 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... Message-ID: <200107251721.KAA22632@shell3.ba.best.com> > Coble's counterpart in the Senate, California Democrat Dianne > Feinstein, feels the same way. > > "We need to protect copyrights and this law was designed to do that," > said Howard Gantman, a spokesman for Feinstein, who chairs the Senate > Judiciary subcommittee on technology. "She's not looking to change > it." This woman is a menace to society. Yahoo! Internet Life once called her one of the five least net-friendly members of Congress, and wrote, "Feinstein arguably has done more than any other senator to censor and regulate the Net. She repeatedly has attempted to ban bomb-making information, even though courts have ruled it's legal to publish it. She tried to make it a crime to discuss marijuana growing online -- or to link to drug related Web sites. And she has suggested banning encryption software that federal law enforcement officials can't monitor. It's not that anyone is for bomb-making or drug links, but that Feinstein's ham-fisted approach would be overly far-reaching." I know I shouldn't be surprised at the Feinstein juggernaut's continued success in a state in which the prison guards' union is the single most powerful lobby, but come *on*. There have to be enough techies, libertarians, true liberals, and true conservatives out there to recognize that DiFi is an authoritarian corporate stooge and all-around enemy of at least half the Bill of Rights. But we keep letting her roll right on over us -- and it's entirely possible that she'll be President some day. Di Fi Watch: http://www.zpub.com/un/un-df.html Ethan -- "This is what you want, this is what you get" -- John Lydon From pmasloch at earthlink.net Wed Jul 25 10:24:27 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Next protest? In-Reply-To: <20010725131104.P32097@stealth> Message-ID: August 15th (afternoon) in D.C would be a nice time :-))) Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org * Mark K. Bilbo (mkbilbo@cdcla.com) wrote: > I've gone and come down with something (spent yesterday in bed with fever > and crud), so I'm on the fuzzy brain side... > > Is there a concensus emerging on another protest? The signals coming from > the DoJ and Congress are pretty clear they're brushing us off. This is > starting to look like a long haul kind of thing. > > Myself, I'm in favor then of picking a date a bit further out then gathering > steam. There have to be people who we haven't reached yet (I know of online > groups I'm part of in one way or another I haven't really badgered to get > involved yet). Maybe a few choice spots and try to build up numbers? > > Local stuff could still go on for those who couldn't travel but I'd love to > see us build some bigger rallies in a few cities. Pull in more media > attention, get the message out. ESPECIALLY now that Congress has thumbed > their noses at us all. It seems to me that anti-DMCA rallies might get some coverage at the Moscone center... there's a show from 26-30 August that might be appropriate... it would also guarantee that you could get people from out of state to join up... -- Have U seen the dirty bird? | The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the http://www.moongroup.com | needs of an expanding bureaucracy. Kernel 2.4.7 - i686 cpu | | From jgramlich at hotmail.com Wed Jul 25 10:31:45 2001 From: jgramlich at hotmail.com (Joshua Gramlich) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Feinstein is a socialist References: <200107251721.KAA22632@shell3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: What do you expect from the left coast? Feinstein would like to stamp out individuality wherever it rears its ugly head. It's congressfolk like her and Teddy Kennedy that make me wish I could vote for the reps of other states. Both of them think they know how to spend your money and time better than you. Joshua Gramlich From zawadzki at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 10:33:09 2001 From: zawadzki at yahoo.com (mark zawadzki) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] General Strike ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010725173309.37155.qmail@web9607.mail.yahoo.com> Think of the media exposure if enough of us walked out , or got the equivalent of the "blue flue" Mark Zawadzki Eastern Pa. Director, Mid-Atlantic Chapter, Clan Cameron If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my shoulders.-- Hal Abelson In computer science, we stand on each other's feet. -- Brian K. Reed --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010725/8f5f2bb3/attachment.htm From tom at lemuria.org Wed Jul 25 10:31:21 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... In-Reply-To: <027b01c11528$709c9670$3088d790@tti.com>; from mkbilbo@cdcla.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 09:39:56AM -0700 References: <8BE50F29464B6D4E95F24770000D73822A6E07@vcompro-02.vcompro.com> <027b01c11528$709c9670$3088d790@tti.com> Message-ID: <20010725193116.E17322@lemuria.org> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 09:39:56AM -0700, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: > And now Congress is snearing at us? DMCA is working just fine eh? Meaning > it's a success in showing those geeks we can throw them in jail anytime we > like? Keep them cowed and turning the crank on the economy while we strip > all their rights away (along with the rights of any other of those "citizen" > things that get in the way). > > If we're such horrible people then, gosh, I wouldn't want to keep harming > them by, oh, making the Internet go. the "old economy" way to do this is to call for a general strike, or just a strike in an affected area. now most of us, I'm sure, are not members of any union, and I'm not sure the strike laws cover political reasons. however, there are always ways, like taking a day off (everyone at once) or calling in sick. connecting this as much with striking as possible (even if it isn't legally a "strike") would also help to give things a lot of credibility and move us out of the "evil hackers" corner. your idea isn't as stupid as it sounds. it just needs some refining. I'm willing to play contact person for everyone in germany and/or europe. I don't know many people and I'm not even in a LUG, so I can't trump up much, but if there's someone needed to coordinate, you've got a volunteer. other voices? -- -- http://web.lemuria.org -- From ausage at ausage.com Wed Jul 25 10:34:26 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010725124853.00a8b290@208.231.13.113> References: <020601c11523$b75627c0$3088d790@tti.com> <20010725103125.F8972@cluebot.com> <3.0.5.32.20010725124853.00a8b290@208.231.13.113> Message-ID: <01072513342600.01654@frankie> On July 25, 2001 12:48 pm, Eric Tully wrote: > At 12:09 PM 7/25/01 -0400, Jon Bober wrote: > >this is a thought that also occurred to me this morning on the train. > > > >i wonder just what it would take to take the internet down for a day. > Let's kill this thread. Some people I know just love to take things out of context when it's to their advantage and while this could be a nice day dream lets just leave it there before someone finds trouble they don't deserve and we all get a LOT of bad press. From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Wed Jul 25 10:39:43 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Reply from the AAP In-Reply-To: <01072421512502.23294@frankie> Message-ID: From: Amy Gwiazdowski > AAP urges them to carefully > consider how their arguments would apply to precisely the same activities in > connection with encryption and other technological measures used to protect > privacy in that same environment. Is there any privacy to protect "in that same environment?" I.e., publishing and broadcast media? Well, okay, let's compare. In conventional encryption, privacy means blocking access to 3rd parties. In copy protection, "privacy" means blocking access to 3rd parties AND to the intended recipient who paid for the message. The only way to sell people stuff that can't be pirated is to give them nothing, an empty box, in exchange for their money. Existing copy protection is a compromise: you stop some piracy by giving the consumer a half-empty box. > Amy Gwiazdowski > AAP -S From jgramlich at hotmail.com Wed Jul 25 10:43:23 2001 From: jgramlich at hotmail.com (Joshua Gramlich) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... References: <020601c11523$b75627c0$3088d790@tti.com> <20010725103125.F8972@cluebot.com> <3.0.5.32.20010725124853.00a8b290@208.231.13.113> <01072513342600.01654@frankie> Message-ID: I didn't get a harumph out of you! Give the Governer a 'harumph'! Harumph! Harumph! You watch your ass... Here, here! Kill the thread! Josh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Lawrence" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... > On July 25, 2001 12:48 pm, Eric Tully wrote: > > At 12:09 PM 7/25/01 -0400, Jon Bober wrote: > > >this is a thought that also occurred to me this morning on the train. > > > > > >i wonder just what it would take to take the internet down for a day. > > > > Let's kill this thread. Some people I know just love to take things out of > context when it's to their advantage and while this could be a nice day dream > lets just leave it there before someone finds trouble they don't deserve and > we all get a LOT of bad press. > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From jwb235 at nyu.edu Wed Jul 25 10:48:12 2001 From: jwb235 at nyu.edu (Jon Bober) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... In-Reply-To: <01072513342600.01654@frankie> References: <3.0.5.32.20010725124853.00a8b290@208.231.13.113> <020601c11523$b75627c0$3088d790@tti.com> <20010725103125.F8972@cluebot.com> <3.0.5.32.20010725124853.00a8b290@208.231.13.113> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725134554.03b9aa90@pop.nyu.edu> i agree. i never intended or expected that kind of response and was quite surprised. At 01:34 PM 7/25/01 -0400, you wrote: >On July 25, 2001 12:48 pm, Eric Tully wrote: > > At 12:09 PM 7/25/01 -0400, Jon Bober wrote: > > >this is a thought that also occurred to me this morning on the train. > > > > > >i wonder just what it would take to take the internet down for a day. > > > >Let's kill this thread. Some people I know just love to take things out of >context when it's to their advantage and while this could be a nice day dream >lets just leave it there before someone finds trouble they don't deserve and >we all get a LOT of bad press. > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From noring at olagrande.net Wed Jul 25 10:48:24 2001 From: noring at olagrande.net (noring@olagrande.net) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interesting article from the Baltimore Sun about DMCA Message-ID: <200107251748.MAA12909@og1.olagrande.net> Don't know if it's been posted here already, so I'll go ahead and post the URL: http://www.sunspot.net/news/bal-pl.himowitz23jul23.story Jon Noring From ausage at ausage.com Wed Jul 25 10:51:26 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Publishers and the AAP Message-ID: <01072513512601.01654@frankie> I have started contactiing the publishers I buy books from to find out 1) are they member of AAP 2) what is their position on Dimitry and the DMCA So far the only one to get back to me is O'Reilly (and within 5 minutes). The PR rep I is spoke with, Lisa Mann (???), stated emphatically that they support the "Free Sklyarov" cause and said that they are considering sending out a press release -- which of course I encouraged. She also said that while she could not confirm they were not a member of the AAP, she did not believe so. I will post news on other publishers as I get it. As it stands O'Reilly will be getting most of the money I send on books from now on. -- Andrew Lawrence Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 From cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu Wed Jul 25 10:55:18 2001 From: cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] answers to questions. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've seen the following questions on this list. Here are some answers. 1) Who's going to stand up and coordinate the protests now? (not the eff) freesklyarov.org has volunteered to do just that. the webmaster does a pretty good job of picking up relevant information from the mailing lists. if you've got something you need announced, email it to me and I'll make sure it gets on the site. they're not the only one, of course, and boycottadobe and rejectmueller are also out there; planetebook and slashdot and others have information as well. the EFF will likely continue to have official releases, and I'm trying to get the FSF more involved as well. I don't think centralization is necessarily a good thing. all the local organizers have web sites where they post their own local protest information. as long as all the varied "top-level" sites do a good job of pushing people to the right local site, people will get the info they need. 2) what happens next? the eff is working on an announcement. you will see this real soon now. various local groups (boston included) have been discussing july 30 actions, however we'd been waiting for the EFF so that we can work together if possible. there is still a *lot* of action going on on the local planning lists. you should get involved with the appropriate list for your area and find out what's happening. 3) why haven't we heard anything? mostly, because free-sklyarov@zork has become too high-volume for most of the local organizers and eff folk to read. this is sad, but true. posts here get made when important decisions have been made, but most of the internal planning seems to be done on lower-volume lists, such as those most of the local organizers maintain. hopefully this helps. --s NRA NSA anthrax Pakistan C4 SLBM Yeltsin East Timor President Peking Delta Force WTO Castro chemical agent Saddam Hussein for Dummies Ft. Bragg ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian ) -- "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970, minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4. -- [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/] #!/usr/bin/perl -w # 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz # MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout # arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order $_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5; $_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d= unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d >>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9 ,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t ^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271)) [$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Wed Jul 25 10:54:47 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:03:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] salon.com In-Reply-To: <878zhd9isz.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: On 25 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "PS" == Penelope Schenk writes: > PS> Though the organization canceled a formal protest it had > PS> planned outside Adobe's headquarters Monday, about 30 people > PS> gathered anyway to complain that Sklyarov was unfairly [...] > It's weird, because I was there at 10:30, half an hour before the show > was supposed to start, and there were already more than 30 people > there. >[...] > So, I can't imagine when this reporter counted 30 people. FWIW, I and the people I drove down with were the first ones there (having overestimated the 880 traffic so much as to arrive at 9:40am), and 10:20 was about the time when we passed the 30 threshold =) -- -alexf From branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net Wed Jul 25 10:58:52 2001 From: branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net (Branden Robinson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Distributed Protest Resource In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010725125852.A11407@deadbeast.net> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:51:39AM -0500, nobody wrote: > Whoever is maintaining a list of the National/International protest > organizations, please stand up. The EFF is not in a position to be the > official International organizer because they are playing the diplomatic > role. Boycott Adobe has been retired, and I suspect Reject Mueller will > suffer a similar fate. Perhaps we should determine if this guy is one of Us or one of Them... Whois Server Version 1.3 Domain names in the .com, .net, and .org domains can now be registered with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net for detailed information. Domain Name: REPEALDMCA.ORG Registrar: TUCOWS, INC. Whois Server: whois.opensrs.net Referral URL: http://www.opensrs.org Name Server: NS.ELLISBROS.COM Updated Date: 31-jan-2001 >>> Last update of whois database: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 02:10:48 EDT <<< The Registry database contains ONLY .COM, .NET, .ORG, .EDU domains and Registrars. Found InterNIC referral to whois.opensrs.net. Registrant: Ellis Bros. South, Inc. 4019 Bell Grande Dr Valrico, FL 33594 US Domain Name: REPEALDMCA.ORG Administrative Contact: Ellis, Rob hostmaster@ellisbros.com 4019 Bell Grande Dr Valrico, FL 33594 US (813) 714-4531 Technical Contact: Ellis, Rob hostmaster@ellisbros.com 4019 Bell Grande Dr Valrico, FL 33594 US (813) 714-4531 Billing Contact: Ellis, Robert rob@ellisbros.com 4019 Bell Grande Dr Valrico, FL 33594 US (813) 654-3930 Record last updated on 25-Jul-2001. Record expires on 31-Jan-2002. Record Created on 31-Jan-2001. Domain servers in listed order: NS.ELLISBROS.COM 4.36.121.122 -- G. Branden Robinson | Debian GNU/Linux | It tastes good. branden@deadbeast.net | -- Bill Clinton http://www.deadbeast.net/~branden/ | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010725/98720939/attachment.pgp From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 11:02:05 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [sklyarov-chicago] Chicago Monday Recap In-Reply-To: <20010725101948.D23128@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: <20010725180205.2373.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com> cool pics from chicago --- "Peter A. Peterson II" wrote: > Quoting Peter A. Peterson II: > > Pictures are here: > http://two-bit.ufo.chicago.il.us/~pictures/ > > > > I gave some of them useful names. If anyone wants > to use any of them, > > let me know and I'll make sure it's cool with the > photographers. > > If people want to let me know who they are and where > they appear in > photos, I'll change the names, if they so desire. > > pedro > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From bill at leflaw.net Wed Jul 25 11:03:31 2001 From: bill at leflaw.net (Bill Evans) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE:Congress No Haven for Hackers References: Message-ID: <3B5F09F3.E7517F54@leflaw.net> Declan is correct in that many in Congress are not open to alienating the MPAA and RIAA, if for no other reason than the money they contribute to the campaign war chests. However Rick Boucher from Virginia's 9th District is planning on introducing legislation to assure fair use rights this summer. I recently, (along with Tom Barger) had the opportunity to spend approx. 1/2 an hour with Congressman Boucher discussing the DMCA and section 1201. He is as unhappy with 1201 as we are. He feels that it goes much too far. He also expressed his feelings that Prof. Felton will win his case. http://www.house.gov/boucher/docs/fairuse.htm Congressman Boucher is also the Co-Chair of the Internet Caucus. He is often consulted by other members of congress to explain how the internet works. He asks the tough questions of witnesses. In VA (where I live as well) His hometown of Abingdon VA was one of the first Electronic Villages. He is our friend in the fight to modify the DMCA... Let him know your thoughts and feelings about the DMCA.. Ninthnet@mail.house.gov As always, be sure to include your name and address and keep it civil. He's one of the good guys.... Bill Evans From admin at seattle-chat.com Wed Jul 25 11:07:37 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I agree, we shouldn't do anything that make us look exactly how the media wants to portray us. Because in reality we're not this way. Anyone knows that for good security, you have to learn to crack your own system, if you don't then only the people that have ill intentions will know how to do it, and you won't be able to have a truly secure system. I don't advocate illegal intrusions, but I do advocate letting the information about it, to flow freely, and good IT people don't have a problem with that. Having friends that have dealt with Microsoft on this issue, coming away can't believing this company would ignore them, and just let it happen, until there's an outcry. One friend was actually sued by M$ along time ago for pointing out security issues in ActiveX when it was in it's infancy, they ignored him, so he wrote a control that would shut down your computer, and posted the control on his website, not publishing the source code. With all kinds of warnings on what it would do, as a demo of the security flaw, he of course one the lawsuit, but I don't think that would happen now, that the DMCA is affect. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Julian T. J. Midgley Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 9:48 AM To: Jon Bober Cc: Mark K. Bilbo; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Jon Bober wrote: > this is a thought that also occurred to me this morning on the train. > > i wonder just what it would take to take the internet down for a day. That's very difficult indeed. If you wanted to do it, you would need to secure the cooperation of thousands of people working for those who control the backbone bandwidth, all of whom would almost certainly stand to lose their jobs if they switched off the requisite pieces of kit for any length of time, let alone a day. I can't see us getting the necessary support from the Worldcoms and Sprints of the world to do this without people getting sacked. (It's just possible you could cause significant disruption by writing a virus/worm with a sufficiently nasty payload, but I really wouldn't recommend this). One of the most serious aspects of this case is that foreign nationals now have every reason to think twice before visiting the States, particularly if they are involved in software development or academic research in Computer Science (as Alan Cox pointed out by his resignation from Usenix). The best way to bring this matter to Congress's attention may well be to persuade them that far from being seen as a haven for Free Speech, the USA is now seen by foreigners as a place where you are likely to get sued or imprisoned for indulging in research and other activities which are considered perfectly acceptable in the rest of the Western World (and much of the East, for that matter). A sensible next approach, therefore, is to garner support amongst non-US academics and computer professionals and ask them to boycott all conferences and meetings in the US, since it is no longer a safe place for them to visit. Similarly, contact the organisers of major conferences, conventions, and technology fairs, and request that they hold their events outside the US, so that foreign nationals can visit without fear of being stung by the DMCA. Simultaneously, persuade academics within the US to protest vigorously against the DMCA and the curtailment of their intellectual freedoms that it implies, by writing to congressmen, etc. Ideally, it would be good to see letters coming from the entire computer science departments of major universities such as MIT. Start holding regular protests against the DMCA- the idea being to get these to snowball over time (as discussed in another thread). If possible, find some big players in the industry, and persuade them to publically oppose the offensive parts of the DMCA (it's just possible that the IBMs and Suns of this world, who don't have a big personal interest in copyright protection can be persuaded to do this (this one will be, I guess, very hard to achieve)). On the smaller scale, write letters to Congressmen and Senators pointing out the fact that copyright infringement itself is a crime, and that little is gained (and much is lost) if you unnecessarily also make circumventing copyright protection mechanisms a crime. To be truly effective, such an plan of action will need to be coordinated and organised, with a web site offering information on everything from the DMCA itself to the arguments against it, to how to organise protests, sample form letters and petitions, etc. There's no doubt that the effort required to overturn the DMCA will be worthwhile. Julian -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 25 11:13:51 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Distributed Protest Resource In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87puao7u74.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "n" == nobody writes: n> Adobe has been retired, and I suspect Reject Mueller will n> suffer a similar fate. OK, well, Boycott Adobe is still asking for Web monkey volunteers. They need help, and I think they make a good clearing house for info. It'd be nice to merge some of the protest sites, like freesklyarov.org and boycottadobe.com. But that's just me. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From adam at deprince.net Wed Jul 25 11:09:58 2001 From: adam at deprince.net (adam@deprince.net) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010725124853.00a8b290@208.231.13.113> Message-ID: > > I suppose a nuclear bomb in the DC/Virginia area would take out enough > peering points to put a damper on the Internet for a few years. Please take care to self-moderate what you say. Granted, feelings run strong and imaginations even stronger. This obvious jest can be quoted, and the prosecution perceives itself as having no obligation to preserve context. > > I'm not actually recommending this as a way to urge Congress to eliminate > the DMCA. > > > - Eric > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From johnny_aio2 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 11:17:39 2001 From: johnny_aio2 at yahoo.com (Johnny Crow) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] protests in Las Vegas Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725141434.00a601c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, I live in Las Vegas Where this went down. And I am Astonished that no one is protesting there (Im on vacation right now) but i think that a well organized protest in Las Vegas would be great. I know their are a lot of people willing. If anyone is interested speak up. thanks, Slacker _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Wed Jul 25 11:25:34 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Publishers and the AAP In-Reply-To: <01072513512601.01654@frankie> Message-ID: FYI: AAP has the full list of members on their website at: http://www.publishers.org/home/abouta/members.htm O'Reilly is NOT on that list. On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Andrew Lawrence wrote: > I have started contactiing the publishers I buy books from to find out > 1) are they member of AAP > 2) what is their position on Dimitry and the DMCA > > So far the only one to get back to me is O'Reilly (and within 5 minutes). > The PR rep I is spoke with, Lisa Mann (???), stated emphatically that they > support the "Free Sklyarov" cause and said that they are considering sending > out a press release -- which of course I encouraged. She also said that > while she could not confirm they were not a member of the AAP, she did not > believe so. > > I will post news on other publishers as I get it. As it stands O'Reilly will > be getting most of the money I send on books from now on. > > > -- -alexf From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 25 11:27:46 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ANNOUNCE: Organizational Meeting in San Francisco Tonight Message-ID: <87lmlc7tjx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Hey, so, this worked so well last week, I figured we should do it again. ---8<--- ORGANIZATIONAL MEETING Ad Hoc Committee To Free Dmitry Sklyarov* 7:30 PM - 7/25/2001 Sacred Grounds Coffee House 2095 Hayes Street (Cross-Street: Cole) San Francisco CA We'll be meeting to determine next course of action for the San Francisco Bay Area activist community involved with the effort to Free Dmitry Sklyarov. All are welcome at this public venue -- please feel free to pass on this announce. If you don't know or recognize people, look for a sign that says, "Ad Hoc Committee," or look for this guy: http://www.pigdog.org/images/free_sklyarov/pdj_free_sklyarov_016_2001.07.23.jpg Heh heh heh. ---8<--- * I just made this up. Sounds good though, doesn't it? -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From ed at hintz.org Wed Jul 25 11:28:10 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE:Congress No Haven for Hackers Message-ID: <200107251828.f6PISAc32566@phil.hintz.org> On 7/25/01 11:03 AM, bill@leflaw.net thus spake: >However Rick Boucher from Virginia's 9th District is planning > on introducing legislation to assure fair use rights this summer. > >I recently, (along with Tom Barger) had the opportunity > to spend approx. 1/2 an hour with Congressman Boucher > discussing the DMCA and section 1201. He is as unhappy > with 1201 as we are. He feels that it goes much too far. >He also expressed his feelings that Prof. Felton will win his case. > >http://www.house.gov/boucher/docs/fairuse.htm > >Congressman Boucher is also the Co-Chair of the Internet Caucus. >He is often consulted by other members of congress to explain how > the internet works. He asks the tough questions of witnesses. >In VA (where I live as well) His hometown of Abingdon VA was one of the > first Electronic Villages. He is our friend in the fight to modify the >DMCA... Uhmm, there's not any chance of him moving to CA and running against Feinstein is there? OK, I know, I'm dreaming, but I just thought I'd ask... ;-) Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From free-sklyarov at onethumb.com Wed Jul 25 11:30:46 2001 From: free-sklyarov at onethumb.com (Don MacAskill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe email to their partners Message-ID: <080601A7E1E43849B16592D2098E5FAA5D659E@mwnsrv01.Mightywords.com> This came across the wire from Adobe today, I believe it's being sent to all their partners. In it, they reaffirm their statement that prosecuting Dmitry isn't the right thing to do. ---- Monday, Adobe met with officials from the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) to better understand their concerns and explore ways to resolve the issues surrounding the arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov while preserving Adobe and its customers' copyrights. This meeting covered concerns about this case, and while we strongly support the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) and the enforcement of copyright protection of digital content, prosecuting Mr. Sklyarov in this particular case is not conducive to the best interests of any of the parties involved or the industry. It has always been Adobe's goal to have ElcomSoft stop selling the Advanced eBook Processor software, and this has happened. As a result of our meeting today, Adobe and the EFF issued a joint press release recommending the release of Dmitry Sklyarov from federal custody. Adobe is also withdrawing its support for the criminal complaint against Mr. Sklyarov. The press release is attached for your reference. The criminal complaint against Mr. Sklyarov has been, and continues to be, in the hands of the US Attorney's office and it is up to them as to how they choose to proceed. While we are not interested in supporting the prosecution of this case, Adobe will continue to protect its copyright interests and those of its customers. Security is an ongoing effort at Adobe and the company is committed to strengthening the security of its products. Regarding the Acrobat eBook Reader, the company continues to make changes to the encryption scheme of the current version the software. Adobe will continue its Web surveillance of compromised eBooks in Adobe PDF. Reports continue show no compromised eBooks on FTP, web sites or popular peer-to-peer networks. In conclusion, Adobe extends its gratitude for your patience and support. Adobe strongly believes in copyright protection for digital content and will continue to support technology standards bodies, government agencies and publishing industry associations in enforcing copyright protection on the Internet. We also look forward to continuing the good work of the digital rights management standards group in the OeBF (Open eBook Forum) on eBook security and encryption issues. --- Don MacAskill http://www.FreeDmitry.org/ From crism at maden.org Wed Jul 25 11:30:46 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Arguments from consumer rights pov In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010725030550.00a458b0@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010725112548.02626270@mail.maden.org> At 08:30 25-07-2001, Austin Hook wrote: >On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Christopher R. Maden wrote: > > This last point isn't *quite* true. Even if you didn't intend to buy it, > > there are two damages caused by your copying. One is that the perceived > > value of a scarce resource is lowered; people place a value on having > > something that not everyone else has (such as limited editions) or on > being > > able to own things that have a high cost of entry. > >Think again. That might be true with stamps or antique cars, but they are >special cases. So far there is not much of a collector's market in old >software. No, but there is a rarity argument. Publications will pay a premium for exclusive use of fonts (Newsweek, The Washington Post, Sports Illustrated, Time, Le Monde, Wired, all use custom fonts for their text), and high-end software has fewer piracy problems because the customers don't *want* other people to have it (typesetting software like XPP and Advent, old-school ebook software like DynaText). In the mid-range, there are tools like FrameMaker and Photoshop, which retail for several hundreds of dollars, but if piracy didn't exist, Adobe could probably get away with charging more since there's really no competition. (I'm not saying that this is a good thing. And I know there are alternatives, but they are not commercial software and they are relatively obscure, to the general public that comprises Adobe's target market for this stuff.) >It is not the normal case of a scarce resource, like water or energy, >except as artificially constrained. Exactly. But it's inaccurate to say that pirating an artificially constrained resource doesn't diminish its value to the producer. -crism -- "You will find that the State is the kind of organization which, though it does big things badly, does small things badly too." - J.K. Galbraith === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From mkbilbo at cdcla.com Wed Jul 25 11:34:55 2001 From: mkbilbo at cdcla.com (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... References: <020601c11523$b75627c0$3088d790@tti.com> <20010725103125.F8972@cluebot.com> <3.0.5.32.20010725124853.00a8b290@208.231.13.113> <01072513342600.01654@frankie> Message-ID: <007201c11538$805f36c0$3088d790@tti.com> Sigh. You're right. And that's how bad it's getting. We actually have to worry what we SAY. Even outrageous, silly pipe dream comments. You know, I could have *sworn* we used to have a Bill of Rights. Or maybe I was just dreaming... Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Lawrence" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... > On July 25, 2001 12:48 pm, Eric Tully wrote: > > At 12:09 PM 7/25/01 -0400, Jon Bober wrote: > > >this is a thought that also occurred to me this morning on the train. > > > > > >i wonder just what it would take to take the internet down for a day. > > > > Let's kill this thread. Some people I know just love to take things out of > context when it's to their advantage and while this could be a nice day dream > lets just leave it there before someone finds trouble they don't deserve and > we all get a LOT of bad press. From mkbilbo at cdcla.com Wed Jul 25 11:42:41 2001 From: mkbilbo at cdcla.com (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Next protest? References: Message-ID: <008701c11539$96985790$3088d790@tti.com> Anything special about the 15th he asked just out of curiousty. That would, though, give folks time to grab friends, bug 1st Amendment organizations that might be interested, etc. I see the Bay Area folks are getting together again. A date like August 15th (or similar) could mean we down here could start pestering the SoCal folk about heading up there so we could build up a bigger rally. DC, of course, is a great spot for East Coast folk to try to head for if possible. It'd be nice to have a short list of locations within (reasonable? ) driving range of most of us, then everybody grab a couple of friends, strangers, what have you. If these things keep getting bigger over time, they can't keep just blowing us off the way they just did. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 10:24 AM Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Next protest? > August 15th (afternoon) in D.C would be a nice time :-))) > > > Free Dmitry Sklyarov > Stop the DMCA > ---------------------------------------- > http://www.freesklyarov.org > http://www.boycottadobe.org > > > > * Mark K. Bilbo (mkbilbo@cdcla.com) wrote: > > I've gone and come down with something (spent yesterday in bed with > fever > > and crud), so I'm on the fuzzy brain side... > > > > Is there a concensus emerging on another protest? The signals coming > from > > the DoJ and Congress are pretty clear they're brushing us off. This is > > starting to look like a long haul kind of thing. > > > > Myself, I'm in favor then of picking a date a bit further out then > gathering > > steam. There have to be people who we haven't reached yet (I know of > online > > groups I'm part of in one way or another I haven't really badgered to > get > > involved yet). Maybe a few choice spots and try to build up numbers? > > > > Local stuff could still go on for those who couldn't travel but I'd > love to > > see us build some bigger rallies in a few cities. Pull in more media > > attention, get the message out. ESPECIALLY now that Congress has > thumbed > > their noses at us all. > > It seems to me that anti-DMCA rallies might get some coverage at the > Moscone center... there's a show from 26-30 August that might be > appropriate... it would also guarantee that you could get people > from out of state to join up... > > -- > Have U seen the dirty bird? | The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the > http://www.moongroup.com | needs of an expanding bureaucracy. > Kernel 2.4.7 - i686 cpu | > | > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Wed Jul 25 11:42:31 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... In-Reply-To: <007201c11538$805f36c0$3088d790@tti.com> Message-ID: Bill of Rights? Oh this thing?: http://nc.flyingbuttmonkeys.com/~ehintz/dmitry_pix/sign3.jpg =) [props to Seth Schoen for reciting the thing from memory at 3am] On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: > Sigh. You're right. And that's how bad it's getting. We actually have to > worry what we SAY. Even outrageous, silly pipe dream comments. > > You know, I could have *sworn* we used to have a Bill of Rights. Or maybe I > was just dreaming... > > Mark > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andrew Lawrence" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 10:34 AM > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington > loves DMCA... > > > > On July 25, 2001 12:48 pm, Eric Tully wrote: > > > At 12:09 PM 7/25/01 -0400, Jon Bober wrote: > > > >this is a thought that also occurred to me this morning on the train. > > > > > > > >i wonder just what it would take to take the internet down for a day. > > > > > > > Let's kill this thread. Some people I know just love to take things out > of > > context when it's to their advantage and while this could be a nice day > dream > > lets just leave it there before someone finds trouble they don't deserve > and > > we all get a LOT of bad press. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- -alexf From declan at well.com Wed Jul 25 11:45:12 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... In-Reply-To: <200107251721.KAA22632@shell3.ba.best.com>; from drumz@best.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 10:21:51AM -0700 References: <200107251721.KAA22632@shell3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <20010725144512.B13901@cluebot.com> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 10:21:51AM -0700, Ethan Straffin wrote: > This woman is a menace to society. Yahoo! Internet Life once called her > one of the five least net-friendly members of Congress, and wrote, > "Feinstein arguably has done more than any other senator to censor and > regulate the Net. She repeatedly has attempted to ban bomb-making > information, even though courts have ruled it's legal to publish it. She > tried to make it a crime to discuss marijuana growing online -- or to link > to drug related Web sites. And she has suggested banning encryption > software that federal law enforcement officials can't monitor. It's not > that anyone is for bomb-making or drug links, but that Feinstein's > ham-fisted approach would be overly far-reaching." Ah, yes. I think I wrote that article. See also: http://www.politechbot.com/cgi-bin/politech.cgi?name=feinstein -Declan From LGORKIN at mobius.com Wed Jul 25 11:50:55 2001 From: LGORKIN at mobius.com (Leonid Gorkin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Next protest? Message-ID: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F99@ryentes1.mobius.com> I was thinking that it might be a good idea for East coast people to head for Washington for a weekend of fun and games :) -----Original Message----- From: Mark K. Bilbo [mailto:mkbilbo@cdcla.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 2:43 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Next protest? Anything special about the 15th he asked just out of curiousty. That would, though, give folks time to grab friends, bug 1st Amendment organizations that might be interested, etc. I see the Bay Area folks are getting together again. A date like August 15th (or similar) could mean we down here could start pestering the SoCal folk about heading up there so we could build up a bigger rally. DC, of course, is a great spot for East Coast folk to try to head for if possible. It'd be nice to have a short list of locations within (reasonable? ) driving range of most of us, then everybody grab a couple of friends, strangers, what have you. If these things keep getting bigger over time, they can't keep just blowing us off the way they just did. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 10:24 AM Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Next protest? > August 15th (afternoon) in D.C would be a nice time :-))) > > > Free Dmitry Sklyarov > Stop the DMCA > ---------------------------------------- > http://www.freesklyarov.org > http://www.boycottadobe.org > > > > * Mark K. Bilbo (mkbilbo@cdcla.com) wrote: > > I've gone and come down with something (spent yesterday in bed with > fever > > and crud), so I'm on the fuzzy brain side... > > > > Is there a concensus emerging on another protest? The signals coming > from > > the DoJ and Congress are pretty clear they're brushing us off. This is > > starting to look like a long haul kind of thing. > > > > Myself, I'm in favor then of picking a date a bit further out then > gathering > > steam. There have to be people who we haven't reached yet (I know of > online > > groups I'm part of in one way or another I haven't really badgered to > get > > involved yet). Maybe a few choice spots and try to build up numbers? > > > > Local stuff could still go on for those who couldn't travel but I'd > love to > > see us build some bigger rallies in a few cities. Pull in more media > > attention, get the message out. ESPECIALLY now that Congress has > thumbed > > their noses at us all. > > It seems to me that anti-DMCA rallies might get some coverage at the > Moscone center... there's a show from 26-30 August that might be > appropriate... it would also guarantee that you could get people > from out of state to join up... > > -- > Have U seen the dirty bird? | The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the > http://www.moongroup.com | needs of an expanding bureaucracy. > Kernel 2.4.7 - i686 cpu | > | > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From proclus at iname.com Wed Jul 25 11:58:07 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] broaden the movement In-Reply-To: <200107251748.MAA12909@og1.olagrande.net> Message-ID: <200107251858.OAA24902@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> On 25 Jul, noring@olagrande.net wrote: > Don't know if it's been posted here already, so > I'll go ahead and post the URL: > > http://www.sunspot.net/news/bal-pl.himowitz23jul23.story That was a nice tip, and it gave me an idea. The boycott was soooo effective, perhaps we should call for a new boycott. Let's boycott all media with copy protection that counters fair use. This would include eBooks, and DVD movies, as well as some future plans from Microsoft, and I'm sure that the people here could think of more examples. Companies would not like to see their products added to our boycott list, and they might lobby congress for a change to the DMCA. We would only release the boycott, if the the DMCA was struck down, or modified with fair use and academic freedom provisions. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > > > Jon Noring > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From sklyarov at lethe.com Wed Jul 25 11:58:39 2001 From: sklyarov at lethe.com (Kevin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Arguments from consumer rights pov Message-ID: <001001c1153b$d1cc1070$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> > No, but there is a rarity argument. Publications will pay a premium for > exclusive use of fonts (Newsweek, The Washington Post, Sports Illustrated, > Time, Le Monde, Wired, all use custom fonts for their text), and high-end But the font analogy is flawed, because while font software is protected by copyright, type faces are not. So I can legally produce a font that looks exactly like Wired's. Free Dmitry you dumb son-of-a-bitch. - Joe Pesci, Lethal Weapon 2 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010725/173a042a/attachment.htm From declan at well.com Wed Jul 25 12:06:18 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Next protest? In-Reply-To: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F99@ryentes1.mobius.com>; from LGORKIN@mobius.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 02:50:55PM -0400 References: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F99@ryentes1.mobius.com> Message-ID: <20010725150618.A14763@cluebot.com> There's Usenix, of course. But Congress and much of official Washington is out of town in August. -Declan On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 02:50:55PM -0400, Leonid Gorkin wrote: > I was thinking that it might be a good idea for East coast people to head > for Washington for a weekend of fun and games :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark K. Bilbo [mailto:mkbilbo@cdcla.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 2:43 PM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Next protest? > > > Anything special about the 15th he asked just out of curiousty. > > That would, though, give folks time to grab friends, bug 1st Amendment > organizations that might be interested, etc. > > I see the Bay Area folks are getting together again. A date like August 15th > (or similar) could mean we down here could start pestering the SoCal folk > about heading up there so we could build up a bigger rally. DC, of course, > is a great spot for East Coast folk to try to head for if possible. > > It'd be nice to have a short list of locations within (reasonable? ) > driving range of most of us, then everybody grab a couple of friends, > strangers, what have you. > > If these things keep getting bigger over time, they can't keep just blowing > us off the way they just did. > > Mark > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 10:24 AM > Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Next protest? > > > > August 15th (afternoon) in D.C would be a nice time :-))) > > > > > > Free Dmitry Sklyarov > > Stop the DMCA > > ---------------------------------------- > > http://www.freesklyarov.org > > http://www.boycottadobe.org > > > > > > > > * Mark K. Bilbo (mkbilbo@cdcla.com) wrote: > > > I've gone and come down with something (spent yesterday in bed with > > fever > > > and crud), so I'm on the fuzzy brain side... > > > > > > Is there a concensus emerging on another protest? The signals coming > > from > > > the DoJ and Congress are pretty clear they're brushing us off. This is > > > starting to look like a long haul kind of thing. > > > > > > Myself, I'm in favor then of picking a date a bit further out then > > gathering > > > steam. There have to be people who we haven't reached yet (I know of > > online > > > groups I'm part of in one way or another I haven't really badgered to > > get > > > involved yet). Maybe a few choice spots and try to build up numbers? > > > > > > Local stuff could still go on for those who couldn't travel but I'd > > love to > > > see us build some bigger rallies in a few cities. Pull in more media > > > attention, get the message out. ESPECIALLY now that Congress has > > thumbed > > > their noses at us all. > > > > It seems to me that anti-DMCA rallies might get some coverage at the > > Moscone center... there's a show from 26-30 August that might be > > appropriate... it would also guarantee that you could get people > > from out of state to join up... > > > > -- > > Have U seen the dirty bird? | The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the > > http://www.moongroup.com | needs of an expanding bureaucracy. > > Kernel 2.4.7 - i686 cpu | > > | > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From sklyarov at lethe.com Wed Jul 25 12:06:38 2001 From: sklyarov at lethe.com (Kevin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Apologies Message-ID: <000f01c1153c$f096a4b0$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> Sorry for the previous MIME posting. I'm forced to use some wired OS called "Windows" at work, and I'm having a hell of a time figuring out how it works. Free Dmitry you dumb son-of-a-bitch. - Joe Pesci, Lethal Weapon 2 From jono at microshaft.org Wed Jul 25 12:08:30 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Don't Judge an eBook Case By Its Coverage In-Reply-To: <00c401c11502$1bbe0380$0100a8c0@sharhan>; from ath@limm.mgimo.ru on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 04:05:27PM +0400 References: <00c401c11502$1bbe0380$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: <20010725120830.E14160@networkcommand.com> It's too early to know what Sklyarov's legal fate will be. But anti-DMCA protesters may need to find a better case to convince the public that the law is misguided and should be rolled back. http://biz.yahoo.com/bizwk/010725/u2uwdgj7_smmdbiz41ntqa.html From jgramlich at hotmail.com Wed Jul 25 12:08:26 2001 From: jgramlich at hotmail.com (Joshua Gramlich) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Feinstein is a socialist References: <200107251721.KAA22632@shell3.ba.best.com> <87y9pcdes0.fsf@mathdogs.com> Message-ID: Well, I cannot disagree that it seems more like a "Bush" law than a "Gore" law, but the distinctions betwixt the two are so limited these days (hence the Nader vote, I'm sure). I, myself, did not vote this time around (due to a move from L.A. to Chicago in October...read: laziness). None of the above seemed the best choice (and still does IMHO). I am particularly bothered by the thought that while the DMCA being anti-First Amendment is so obvious, there are so many politicos who cater to the big media cartels, that they disregard the Constitution of the United States. Josh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Coleman" To: "Joshua Gramlich" Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Feinstein is a socialist > "Joshua Gramlich" writes: > > What do you expect from the left coast? Feinstein would like to stamp out > > individuality wherever it rears its ugly head. It's congressfolk like her > > and Teddy Kennedy that make me wish I could vote for the reps of other > > states. > > > > Both of them think they know how to spend your money and time better than > > you. > > Ahem. Although both parties unfortunately support it, the thinking behind the > DMCA strikes me as much more "Bush" than "Gore". (I voted Nader, myself, who > I believe would have firmly drop kicked this act.) > From ausage at ausage.com Wed Jul 25 12:05:38 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Arguments from consumer rights pov In-Reply-To: <001001c1153b$d1cc1070$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> References: <001001c1153b$d1cc1070$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> Message-ID: <01072515053802.01654@frankie> On July 25, 2001 02:58 pm, Kevin wrote: > > No, but there is a rarity argument. Publications will pay a premium for > > exclusive use of fonts (Newsweek, The Washington Post, Sports > > Illustrated, Time, Le Monde, Wired, all use custom fonts for their text), > > and high-end > > But the font analogy is flawed, because while font software is protected by > copyright, type faces are not. So I can legally produce a font that looks > exactly like Wired's. NOT. Fonts are protected by copyright. Ask any printer. It is just that in the digital world we have become accustomed to all the "royalty free" fonts that are given out with the software. -- Andrew Lawrence Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 25 12:11:18 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Next protest? In-Reply-To: <20010725150618.A14763@cluebot.com> References: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F99@ryentes1.mobius.com> <20010725150618.A14763@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <87y9pc6cyx.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "DM" == Declan McCullagh writes: DM> There's Usenix, of course. But Congress and much of official DM> Washington is out of town in August. Isn't it also a notoriously slow news time? Might be some easy pickens for media attention. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From bill at leflaw.net Wed Jul 25 12:23:03 2001 From: bill at leflaw.net (Bill Evans) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congressman Rick Boucher Speaks Up... References: Message-ID: <3B5F1C97.1B541E94@leflaw.net> This was just forwarded to me by Tom Barger from Rick Boucher's office... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- fyi - Rep. Boucher made the following statement for an EFF media release urging the release of Sklyarov (we expect to have a full statement tomorrow): "The arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov under federal copyright law for the creation of software that facilitates the exercise of individual fair use rights is a travesty. I urge his immediate release." - Johanna ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Congressman Boucher's Counsel in internet related items) From izel at sulam.com Wed Jul 25 12:26:43 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] broaden the movement Message-ID: proclus@iname.com proclus@iname.com wrote: >Let's boycott all media with copy protection that counters fair use. >This would include eBooks, and DVD movies, as well as some future plans >from Microsoft, and I'm sure that the people here could think of more >examples. I have two things to say about this idea. First, it's a good idea, but not yet at the correct location in our priority queue. I think most of us would agree that our priority queue should consist of first Freeing Dmitry, then repealing the DMCA. I think boycotting all copy protected media is a valid step in getting the DMCA repealed, but won't necessarily have any immediate effect on freeing Dmitry. I think getting the DMCA repealed will take an unacceptably long time, given the resources of our opposition, and is such a roundabout way of freeing Dmitry, that our initial protests should focus on Mueller, Ashcroft, the DoJ, etc. Let's first make sure that Dmitry goes Free. We can then tackle our fucked up legislation. With that said, this is definitely a valid step in getting the DMCA repealed. However, I would like you to watch out for something. You use (without realizing) the corporately sancioned term used to refer to cryptographically encapsulated products - namely "copy protected media". This is a dangerous Jedi mind trick. Every time you say "copy protected media", sheeple will think of the word "protection" and all the warm and fuzzy associations that immediately follow the word "protection". Sheeple will think of the friendly neighborhood cops, the locks on their doors, the Winchester in their shed. The word "protection" is associated with all of these concepts. Sheeple will have mistaken impressions about this "protected media" actually watching out for their welfare - keeping away pesky viruses and Trojans, for example. It's protected, just like a condom, right? It's good for my children, isn't it? It's protected after all? Don't laugh, words are powerful weapons, especially when used on ignorant, impressionable people, and in the wrong hands, words can have these kinds of undesirable effects. I suggest that we pick a counter-term to refer to cryptographically encapsulated products that prevent fair use. I suggest "crippled media". It is sufficiently unpleasant and politically incorrect, that if we say it often enough and loudly enough, Microsoft and Adobe and whoever else will do everything in their power to ensure that their product lineup does not include "crippled media" and products that produce or play "crippled media". Try saying it. Just pronouncing the phrase makes one squirm. There are so many unpleasant associations involved, it's not even funny. I find it quite delightful myself. And, of course, it's a very honest term. "Copy protected media" doesn't protect anyone or anything (except, possibly, corporate profits). "Crippled media" however, cripples fair use rights, which is the main motivation behind cryptographic encapsulation. I find it much more accurate and descriptive. If we make "crippled media" a part of mainstream lexicon, then I strongly believe that all kinds of desirable consequences will follow. Comments, suggestions welcome. - izel From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 25 12:31:14 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Don't Judge an eBook Case By Its Coverage In-Reply-To: <20010725120830.E14160@networkcommand.com> References: <00c401c11502$1bbe0380$0100a8c0@sharhan> <20010725120830.E14160@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <87puao6c1p.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JO" == Jon O writes: JO> It's too early to know what Sklyarov's legal fate will be. But JO> anti-DMCA protesters may need to find a better case to JO> convince the public that the law is misguided and should be JO> rolled back. JO> http://biz.yahoo.com/bizwk/010725/u2uwdgj7_smmdbiz41ntqa.html Well, this is a load of hooey. His argument seems to be that Dmitry was arrested properly under the phrasing of the DMCA. I'm not sure if that's true, but SO WHAT if it is? This is why we don't like the DMCA! It's a bad law! We want Dmitry freed and the law changed. Laws can be wrong. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From bill at leflaw.net Wed Jul 25 12:39:48 2001 From: bill at leflaw.net (Bill Evans) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boucher replacing Feinstein Message-ID: <3B5F2084.398498EC@leflaw.net> Don't blame you a bit...But I think we'll keep him... After all the RIAA and Hilary Rosen both have donated to Diane Feinstein's political war chest, and Hilary Rosen has worked on Feinstein's election committee... For more political donations made by the RIAA, IFPI (Jay Berman) and Hilary Rosen visit http://boycott-riaa.com/contribs.html (Requires Acrobat non encrypted, who knew?) Bill Evans From sklyarov at lethe.com Wed Jul 25 12:32:32 2001 From: sklyarov at lethe.com (Kevin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Arguments from consumer rights pov References: <020601c11523$b75627c0$3088d790@tti.com> <20010725103125.F8972@cluebot.com> <3.0.5.32.20010725124853.00a8b290@208.231.13.113> <01072513342600.01654@frankie> Message-ID: <003001c11540$8de77110$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> > NOT. Fonts are protected by copyright. Ask any printer. It is just that in > the digital world we have become accustomed to all the "royalty free" fonts > that are given out with the software. No, that isn't true. In fact the US Copyright Office originally refused to issue copyrights even for font software but later reversed their position. You can read more about it at: http://www.typeright.org/feature4.html also see Eltra Corp. v. Ringer Free Dmitry you dumb son-of-a-bitch. - Joe Pesci, Lethal Weapon 2 From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Wed Jul 25 12:39:09 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP will not change their tune! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724220542.03127d80@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > Specifically, if someone knows how to have a > good sit-down chat with Pat Schroeder about all this, > we would be most grateful. Um, I'm not sure just how much people know about Pat Schroeder and the AAP, but I highly doubt that they are going to change their position. They are not an organization that has simply reached their stance via a misunderstanding of the issues. The AAP has become quite notorious for their vilification of libaries. A spokeswoman for AAP once referred to librarians as "Waco types" for possessing the radical terrorist notion of wanting to make books available for free. http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-201-6545588-0.html =S From dlc at halibut.com Wed Jul 25 12:39:55 2001 From: dlc at halibut.com (David Carmean) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] broaden the movement In-Reply-To: ; from izel@sulam.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 03:26:43PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010725123955.N25362@halibut.com> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 03:26:43PM -0400, Izel Sulam wrote: > I suggest that we pick a counter-term to refer to cryptographically > encapsulated products that prevent fair use. I suggest "crippled media". It Hear! Hear! From dante333 at gci.net Wed Jul 25 12:39:35 2001 From: dante333 at gci.net (Jacob Gemmell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] broaden the movement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <996089980.27500.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> I've always prefered the term "Copy Controlled Media". It says excactly what they are trying to do. On 25 Jul 2001 15:26:43 -0400, Izel Sulam wrote: > proclus@iname.com proclus@iname.com wrote: > > >Let's boycott all media with copy protection that counters fair use. > >This would include eBooks, and DVD movies, as well as some future plans > >from Microsoft, and I'm sure that the people here could think of more > >examples. > > I have two things to say about this idea. > > First, it's a good idea, but not yet at the correct location in our > priority queue. I think most of us would agree that our priority queue > should consist of first Freeing Dmitry, then repealing the DMCA. I think > boycotting all copy protected media is a valid step in getting the DMCA > repealed, but won't necessarily have any immediate effect on freeing > Dmitry. I think getting the DMCA repealed will take an unacceptably long > time, given the resources of our opposition, and is such a roundabout way > of freeing Dmitry, that our initial protests should focus on Mueller, > Ashcroft, the DoJ, etc. > > Let's first make sure that Dmitry goes Free. We can then tackle our fucked > up legislation. > > With that said, this is definitely a valid step in getting the DMCA > repealed. However, I would like you to watch out for something. You use > (without realizing) the corporately sancioned term used to refer to > cryptographically encapsulated products - namely "copy protected media". > This is a dangerous Jedi mind trick. Every time you say "copy protected > media", sheeple will think of the word "protection" and all the warm and > fuzzy associations that immediately follow the word "protection". Sheeple > will think of the friendly neighborhood cops, the locks on their doors, the > Winchester in their shed. The word "protection" is associated with all of > these concepts. Sheeple will have mistaken impressions about this > "protected media" actually watching out for their welfare - keeping away > pesky viruses and Trojans, for example. It's protected, just like a condom, > right? It's good for my children, isn't it? It's protected after all? Don't > laugh, words are powerful weapons, especially when used on ignorant, > impressionable people, and in the wrong hands, words can have these kinds > of undesirable effects. > > I suggest that we pick a counter-term to refer to cryptographically > encapsulated products that prevent fair use. I suggest "crippled media". It > is sufficiently unpleasant and politically incorrect, that if we say it > often enough and loudly enough, Microsoft and Adobe and whoever else will > do everything in their power to ensure that their product lineup does not > include "crippled media" and products that produce or play "crippled > media". Try saying it. Just pronouncing the phrase makes one squirm. There > are so many unpleasant associations involved, it's not even funny. I find > it quite delightful myself. > > And, of course, it's a very honest term. "Copy protected media" doesn't > protect anyone or anything (except, possibly, corporate profits). "Crippled > media" however, cripples fair use rights, which is the main motivation > behind cryptographic encapsulation. I find it much more accurate and > descriptive. > > If we make "crippled media" a part of mainstream lexicon, then I strongly > believe that all kinds of desirable consequences will follow. > > Comments, suggestions welcome. > - izel > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 25 12:40:48 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [lohner@debian.org: DMCA Community Declaration] Message-ID: <20010725124047.M16094@zork.net> Debian is a Free (as in Free Speech) OS based on the GNU system and the Linux kernel. This mailing list is hosted on a Debian GNU/Linux system, and as such I subscribe to the Debian News lists. ----- Forwarded message from Nils Lohner ----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Debian Project http://www.debian.org/ DMCA Community Declaration press@debian.org July 25, 2002 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ As many of you know, a programmer has been arrested for developing a utility to circumvent copy protection schemes in some of Adobe's products. The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) makes the practice of developing (not using, but _developing_!) such utilities illegal. There is a community declaration regarding the DMCA online which has already been signed by the Debian Project Leader and SPI president as well as many other community leaders and members. This declaration states the basic problems with the DMCA, and addresses why such a law should not exist. We urge you to go to the web site of the declaration and, if you agree with the statements regarding the DMCA, to sign it. The web site is: http://www.dibona.com/dmca/ For more information regarding the history of this issue, please visit the following two sites: http://www.freesklyarov.org/ http://boycottadobe.com/ -- Nils Lohner E-Mail: lohner@debian.org Debian Press Team Press: press@debian.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-news-request@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org ----- End forwarded message ----- -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From pedro at tastytronic.net Wed Jul 25 12:41:08 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Update: from the legal point of view... Message-ID: <20010725144107.B26785@tastytronic.net> Hi all, I have a friend who is currently in law school and is sympathetic to Dmitry's cause as well as being anti-DMCA. He sent along some documents that I don't have time to read right now, but I thought I'd pass them along. If you think they're useful, I encourage you to use them (or contact the authors and use them) in defining your position and/or creating literature to use in your further protests. They are available at: http://two-bit.ufo.chicago.il.us/free-sklyarov/ Free Dmitry, pedro ----- Forwarded message from "Werling, Kristian" ---- Pete- I dug up two articles from an online legal service about copyrights in general and the DMCA. The DMCA article is by Barb Samuelson, a leading IP and DMCA expert. These articles are from law reviews which are generally pretty technical legal writing. They aren't a really good short introduction, but it's the best I could come up with for now. I had a great professor this past semester in a class called "Cyberlaw." We spent a good bit of time on the DMCA and its negative aspects. I e-mailed the prof to ask him about good intros for a layperson to both copyright and the DMCA. Hopefully he can point out something good. Feel free to forward those articles to whoever, I didn't know if you would want to throw them out on the mailing list or not. Keep up the good work. Some interesting conversation on the list. I'm enjoying it. Krist ----- End forwarded message ----- -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- FBI has imprisioned a Russian software engineer for promoting and teaching the concept of "fair use". Read more: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From jono at microshaft.org Wed Jul 25 12:54:12 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Please, get a grip. Was: (Fox letter about the DMCA to ISPs) In-Reply-To: <20010725185904.C17322@lemuria.org>; from tom@lemuria.org on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 06:59:07PM +0200 References: <20010724150134.F7908@networkcommand.com> <20010725185904.C17322@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20010725125412.J14160@networkcommand.com> Look! You guys are discussing the problem not the solution. If no one was stealing these movies, the MPAA and RIAA would have no grounds for the DMCA. So, quit talking about the bait, and discourage people stealing this stuff whenever possible. They are using this as leverage for a power grab that threatens all of us! On 25-Jul-2001, Tom wrote: > On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 05:12:53PM -0700, David Honig wrote: > > It would be amusing to create very large files named Planet_of_the_Apes > > hosted on very slow servers ----servers slow enough to discourage actual > > downloaders, but existent enough to annoy Fox. 'Servers' includes > > numerous P2P tools, so you can do this at home. > > > > Extra credit if the very large files are uniformly distributed noise. > > > > Extra credit if the noise has the appropriate headers so it looks like > > a Divx or whatever is a plausible format. > > trivial to accomplish, too. > > attached to this mail is an empty mpeg file (zipped). you can inflate it to > any size you desire by doing (on Linux): > > unzip empty.zip > dd if=/dev/urandom bs=1024 count=xxx >>empty.mpg > > where xxx is the number of KB you want to add. use 681574400 for 650 MB > which is the size of a CD and would look very promising for a pirated > movie. > > > > I think I qualified for all the extra score. what's the price? :)) > > > -- > -- http://web.lemuria.org > -- From declan at well.com Wed Jul 25 12:49:00 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boucher replacing Feinstein In-Reply-To: <3B5F2084.398498EC@leflaw.net>; from bill@leflaw.net on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 03:39:48PM -0400 References: <3B5F2084.398498EC@leflaw.net> Message-ID: <20010725154900.B15572@cluebot.com> FYI Hillary Clinton is Congress' biggest recipient of movie and record industry campaign "contributions." -Declan On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 03:39:48PM -0400, Bill Evans wrote: > Don't blame you a bit...But I think we'll keep him... > > After all the RIAA and Hilary Rosen both have donated to > Diane Feinstein's political war chest, and Hilary Rosen has worked > on Feinstein's election committee... > > For more political donations made by the RIAA, IFPI (Jay Berman) > and Hilary Rosen visit http://boycott-riaa.com/contribs.html > > (Requires Acrobat non encrypted, who knew?) > > Bill Evans > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From arya at ofhell.org Wed Jul 25 12:57:49 2001 From: arya at ofhell.org (sjh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Feinstein is a socialist In-Reply-To: ; from jgramlich@hotmail.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 02:08:26PM -0500 References: <200107251721.KAA22632@shell3.ba.best.com> <87y9pcdes0.fsf@mathdogs.com> Message-ID: <20010725145749.A14066@ofhell.org> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 02:08:26PM -0500, Joshua Gramlich wrote: > Well, I cannot disagree that it seems more like a "Bush" law than a "Gore" > law, but the distinctions betwixt the two are so limited these days (hence > the Nader vote, I'm sure). Just to clarify. NADER is the socialist. Feinstein is a fascist socialist. Nader, at least, would protect *some* of your human rights (although he would sacrifice all of your economic rights in order to do so). I'm so sick of the media telling me I have to choose between my social rights and my economic rights. I'd like to retain BOTH, as the founding fathers of my country promised all of us. That's the only reason I can put up with all the criticism I get for "throwing away my vote" on a third party. There might not be any chance in hell for a Libertarian president to get into office. But at least I'm going with my conscience. > I am particularly bothered by the thought that while the DMCA being > anti-First Amendment is so obvious, there are so many politicos who cater to > the big media cartels, that they disregard the Constitution of the United > States. I'm bothered by it to, though not surprised. Democracy means we have the right to buy as many votes as we want; justice goes to the highest bidder. What do they care about the Constitution anymore? It doesn't benefit them to do so. The US government has trained us to believe that we are not entitled to what we earn, by confiscating 40% of your paycheck, before you see it, to spend as they see fit. If you choose to retain your income, and let them work their extortion all at once, at the end of the year, you then pay a "withholding fee" to compensate them for the interest that they *didn't* make on your income. The US government has us convinced that they know how to spend our money better than we do. They can plan for our retirements better than we can? They can give our children better educations than we can? They even eliminate the need for charity, with unconstitutional "welfare" programs. I guess we should all be grateful that they're paying our unemployment benefits now.... although the economy wouldn't be in this state of disrepair were it not for Geniusboy GWB. I hate to sound like I'm preaching. But we all complain about one right, here and there, that the government's taken away... when we should be looking with a broader point of view. The fourth and fifth amendments have been completely destroyed by Clinton. The second amendment is granted to us as a "privilege" instead of an inalienable right. Dmitry's case has shown us that the sixth and eighth amendments are completely disregarded by the judicial system. But now that the first amendment is in question, we think some protests and boycotts are really going to make a difference? Maybe I'm just naive, but I really don't believe that you can try to fix one, while ignoring the others. It's all or nothing. Yes, this is a shameless plug for the Libertarian party. But no one else cares about the Constitution anymore.... If Libertarians made up half of Congress, the DMCA would never have passed; UCITA would have been laughed out; the RIAA and MPAA would not be running rampant across our rights as consumers. That old, cliche analogy is true: you can either put first aid tents around the bottom of the cliff, or you can build a fence around the edge of the cliff. Vote out your so-called Republicans, vote out your so-called Democrats... don't vote for Nader's Watermelon communists (green on the outside, red all the way through). We DO have a choice. Please, stop fascism and socialism where they start: at the polls. -Sally From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 13:02:39 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fwd: FYI:Not all Publishers agree with the APA. In-Reply-To: <01072502240303.23691@frankie> Message-ID: <20010725200239.25058.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com> am i overlooking something - their Dymitry statement is not obvious to me? --- Andrew Lawrence wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > Subject: FYI:Not all Publishers agree with the APA. > Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 02:06:53 -0400 (EDT) > From: "J.E. Cripps" > To: > > > The free-sklyarov list isn't taking my posts :-( > Also I don't have time to edit this into anything > shorter. > > > Here's some background and comment from Electronic > Publishers Coalition > EPC Condemns Criminal Use of DMCA > http://www.epccentral.org > His (or his company's) product is legal in many > European countries. > > "While all publishers are concerned about > professional copyright > thieves, the Electronic Publishers Coalition > condemns the use of the > criminal provisions of the DMCA against Dimitry > Sklyarov, a Russian > programmer and cryptanalyst visiting the United > States." > > "Persecution of an individual shouldn't be any > company's response to > a commercial disagreement, especially regarding > copyright," Connie > Foster, the EPC executive director said Sunday." > > "Sklyarov, a graduate student at Bauman Moscow State > Technical > University, reported at a Las Vegas conference on > his research on > e-book security performed for his dissertation. His > research was later > incorporated into a permissions-removal program > called Advanced E-book > Processor, or AEBPR, by ElcomSoft, a Russian > software company that now > employs him. The program apparently sold fewer than > ten copies before > being pulled from the market at Adobe's insistence. > It had not been > available commercially for more than two weeks > before Sklyarov's visit > to America." > > "AEBPR allows users to make backups of legally > purchased Adobe eBooks > that ignore the eBooks' restrictions on copying, > printing and lending, > if any, and permit the eBook to be read on a > replacement copy of Adobe > eBook Reader if the initial installation no longer > functions or if the > user upgrades to a new computer. It does not work > with eBooks sold to > another user. Since under Russian law, such backups > are mandatory for > data sellers, Adobe eBooks contravene the law and > AEBPR is legal in > Russia, as well as in Germany and Scandinavia, and > other countries. > Its use in the U.S. is not permitted under the DMCA, > the Digital > Millennium Copyright Act." > > -- > Keep posted about latest developements: > http://freesklyarov.org > http://boycottadobe.org http://www.anti-dmca.org > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From declan at well.com Wed Jul 25 13:04:43 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congressman Rick Boucher Speaks Up... In-Reply-To: <3B5F1C97.1B541E94@leflaw.net>; from bill@leflaw.net on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 03:23:03PM -0400 References: <3B5F1C97.1B541E94@leflaw.net> Message-ID: <20010725160443.A15914@cluebot.com> Not-so-coincidentally, see: http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45548,00.html -Declan From krw5 at qwest.net Wed Jul 25 13:04:02 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] This is much bigger than software In-Reply-To: <87puao6c1p.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> References: <00c401c11502$1bbe0380$0100a8c0@sharhan> <20010725120830.E14160@networkcommand.com> <87puao6c1p.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <01072513040200.14496@stumpy> On Wednesday 25 July 2001 12:31, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "JO" == Jon O writes: > > JO> It's too early to know what Sklyarov's legal fate will be. But > JO> anti-DMCA protesters may need to find a better case to > JO> convince the public that the law is misguided and should be > JO> rolled back. > > JO> http://biz.yahoo.com/bizwk/010725/u2uwdgj7_smmdbiz41ntqa.html > > Well, this is a load of hooey. His argument seems to be that Dmitry > was arrested properly under the phrasing of the DMCA. > I've read the full text of the part of US Copyright law that contains the DMCA provisions we all know and love. IANAL, but things don't look good. But if the American public can't be made to grasp the flaws in the DMCA this country will deserve its fate. > I'm not sure if that's true, but SO WHAT if it is? This is why we > don't like the DMCA! It's a bad law! We want Dmitry freed and the law > changed. Laws can be wrong. And as tech progress accelerates, laws *will be* wrong more and more often. Gov is decreasingly able to keep up intellectually and even when good legislation occurs, it will suffer obsolesence faster and faster as the assumptions on which it's based become invalid with the next technology wave. This is much bigger than software. roger From wild at eff.org Wed Jul 25 13:04:15 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF to Meet Friday July 27 with US Attorney's Office Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725130410.03366438@pop3.norton.antivirus> Representatives from the Electronic Frontier Foundation will meet at 9:00am Pacific Time, this Friday, July 27, with representatives from the office of the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of California. EFF respectfully requests that protesters hold off protests until after we make a good faith attempt at negotiations aimed at dropping all charges against Dmitry Sklyarov and securing his immediate release from jail. Free Dmitry and Reform Section 1201 of the DMCA, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- From rms at privacyfoundation.org Wed Jul 25 12:58:46 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP will not change their tune! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01c301c11544$3a2139e0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> The number one reason that the AAP isn't going to change their mind anytime soon on this issue is that they helped draft the DMCA. The AAP and DMCA go way back. In their world view, Dmitry is a criminal just like any other copyright pirate. However, not all members of the AAP subscribe to this view. To get the AAP leadership to change their mind, is going to require the AAP members to speak up and protest the shameful press release of last week. Richard -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net] On Behalf Of Xcott Craver Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 3:39 PM To: Will Doherty Cc: Marvin; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP will not change their tune! On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > Specifically, if someone knows how to have a > good sit-down chat with Pat Schroeder about all this, > we would be most grateful. Um, I'm not sure just how much people know about Pat Schroeder and the AAP, but I highly doubt that they are going to change their position. They are not an organization that has simply reached their stance via a misunderstanding of the issues. The AAP has become quite notorious for their vilification of libaries. A spokeswoman for AAP once referred to librarians as "Waco types" for possessing the radical terrorist notion of wanting to make books available for free. http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-201-6545588-0.html =S _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From adunston at jetstream.com Wed Jul 25 13:02:41 2001 From: adunston at jetstream.com (Adrian Dunston) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Please, get a grip. Was: (Fox letter about th e DMCA to ISPs) Message-ID: >From: Jon O . [mailto:jono@microshaft.org] >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Please, get a grip. Was: (Fox letter about the >DMCA to ISPs) >Look! You guys are discussing the problem not the solution. >If no one was stealing these movies, the MPAA and RIAA would >have no grounds for the DMCA. They don't have any grounds now. You can make copies of DVDs without decrypting them. >So, quit talking about the bait, >and discourage people stealing this stuff whenever possible. Politically active programmers are not the ones illegally copying movies. We are defending our rights to fair use, and writing computer instructions. >They are using this as leverage for a power grab that threatens >all of us! They are using copying as a red-herring. What they (the MPAA) really want to do is region code the movies so they can control prices more directly. That's why DVDs cost more in Europe. This isn't about evil nasty hackers stealing things (darn them!). This is about corporations trying to exercise control they shouldn't have over content that they'd rather be renting out (pay per view/pay per listen) than selling. -Adrian P. Dunston __ (sourceCode == freeSpeech) http://www.x-omega.com/shirtdept From jono at microshaft.org Wed Jul 25 13:07:13 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] United IT Workers Union? In-Reply-To: <20010725173309.37155.qmail@web9607.mail.yahoo.com>; from zawadzki@yahoo.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 10:33:09AM -0700 References: <20010725173309.37155.qmail@web9607.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010725130713.K14160@networkcommand.com> This is a good idea. We need to get the Open Source people and Alan Cox behind it. We need a kind of United IT Workers Union real quick. There is a mailing list here: http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/IT_Union Sign up. We need to organize on a larger scale. On 25-Jul-2001, mark zawadzki wrote: > > Think of the media exposure if enough of us walked out , or got the equivalent of the "blue flue" > > > Mark Zawadzki > Eastern Pa. Director, Mid-Atlantic Chapter, Clan Cameron > If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants > were standing on my shoulders.-- Hal Abelson > In computer science, we stand on each other's feet. > -- Brian K. Reed > > > --------------------------------- > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From csm at MoonGroup.com Wed Jul 25 13:07:08 2001 From: csm at MoonGroup.com (Chuck Mead) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP will not change their tune! In-Reply-To: ; from sacraver@EE.Princeton.EDU on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 03:39:09PM -0400 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724220542.03127d80@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20010725160708.N4572@stealth> * Xcott Craver (sacraver@EE.Princeton.EDU) wrote: > On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > > > Specifically, if someone knows how to have a > > good sit-down chat with Pat Schroeder about all this, > > we would be most grateful. > > Um, I'm not sure just how much people know about Pat Schroeder and It was not Pat Schroeder who said that, it was Judith Platt. > the AAP, but I highly doubt that they are going to change their > position. They are not an organization that has simply reached > their stance via a misunderstanding of the issues. > > The AAP has become quite notorious for their vilification of > libaries. A spokeswoman for AAP once referred to librarians > as "Waco types" for possessing the radical terrorist notion > of wanting to make books available for free. > > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-201-6545588-0.html -- Have U seen the dirty bird? | We are all born equal... just some of us http://www.moongroup.com | are more equal than others. Kernel 2.4.7 - i686 cpu | | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010725/f12dde0a/attachment.pgp From declan at well.com Wed Jul 25 13:09:45 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Rep. Boucher says he wants to "Free Dmitry" and amend DMCA Message-ID: <20010725160945.A16454@cluebot.com> http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45548,00.html Rep: Give Fair Use a Fair Shake By Declan McCullagh (declan@wired.com) 12:55 p.m. July 25, 2001 PDT WASHINGTON -- Rep. Rick Boucher wants to spring a Russian programmer from jail. Boucher, a maverick Virginia Democrat, is hoping to rewrite a federal law that led FBI agents to arrest Dmitry Sklyarov in Las Vegas, Nevada, last week on copyright felony charges. "It's a broad overreach to have a person arrested under the federal criminal laws simply because they made software that circumvents a technological measure," Boucher said. Boucher said his office will draft a bill to be introduced later this year. The criminal law in question is the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which was obscure enough when Congress enacted it in 1998, but has emerged as the one of the most important and far-reaching technology regulations. Sklyarov is charged with trafficking in a program to bypass Adobe's copy protection for e-books, a federal felony under the DMCA. "I think the current case adds impetus to the growing effort to fashion an amendment to the DMCA that would restore the classic balance (of fair use rights)," Boucher said. That promises to be anything but a trivial task. Leaders of the House and Senate subcommittees that oversee copyright law said Tuesday that they would not consider any changes to the DMCA. [...] From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 25 13:09:13 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Total Coverage From The Journal Of Record In-Reply-To: <871yn6j0ku.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 11:36:01PM -0700 References: <871yn6j0ku.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010725130913.Y16094@zork.net> Begin Klepht quotation: > Pigdog Journal, setting the standard. > > http://www.pigdog.org/auto/Power_Corrupts/link/2164.html > > Boy howdy, that's some damn fine reporting. Three cheers and a Beaujolais for Pigdog Journal! Hip hip... Syrrah! -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 13:09:20 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's Status In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724223935.049bbcb0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20010725200920.29507.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com> i dont think to little contact is an issue - he's probably been given his "own" personal cell phone and told to make all the calls he wants! --- Will Doherty wrote: > We know where Dmitry is, that is, in a Las Vegas > jail. > A TV news crew has visited him and others are in > contact > as well. > > At 09:43 AM 7/24/2001 -0700, Dan Martinez wrote: > >So, last I heard, (a) no one knows exactly where > Dmitry is, and (b) he > >has yet to be allowed even consular contact. > > > >Are these things still true? > > > >If so, it seems like (b) should be played up in the > press. Our > >government raised quite a stink a few months ago > when several of its > >servicepersons were held by the Chinese government > without immediate > >consular contact. > > > >As for (a), someone mentioned a writ of habeas > corpus. IANAL -- can > >someone who is comment on the usefulness of such a > thing as a means of > >establishing contact with Dmitri? Is anyone at the > EFF or elsewhere > >pursuing this avenue? > > > >While I'm all for marching on until the DMCA lies > in rubble at our > >feet, I don't want to lose sight of the fact that a > guy younger than I > >am has been entrusted to the tender mercies of > federal custody, and it > >would probably do him a great deal of good to know > that there's still > >a larger world out there that cares about him and > wants to get him > >out. > > > >Dan > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From csm at MoonGroup.com Wed Jul 25 13:09:08 2001 From: csm at MoonGroup.com (Chuck Mead) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP will not change their tune! In-Reply-To: ; from sacraver@EE.Princeton.EDU on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 03:39:09PM -0400 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724220542.03127d80@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20010725160908.O4572@stealth> * Xcott Craver (sacraver@EE.Princeton.EDU) wrote: > On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > > > Specifically, if someone knows how to have a > > good sit-down chat with Pat Schroeder about all this, > > we would be most grateful. > > Um, I'm not sure just how much people know about Pat Schroeder and gak... never mind... you had it right... /me heads back to the bench! -- Have U seen the dirty bird? | Majorities, of course, start with http://www.moongroup.com | minorities. -- Robert Moses Kernel 2.4.7 - i686 cpu | | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010725/5c0882b2/attachment.pgp From david at lupercalia.net Wed Jul 25 13:09:21 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Distributed Protest Resource In-Reply-To: <87puao7u74.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:13:29AM -0700 References: <87puao7u74.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010725160921.B13548@lupercalia.net> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:13:29AM -0700, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "n" == nobody writes: > > n> Adobe has been retired, and I suspect Reject Mueller will > n> suffer a similar fate. > > OK, well, Boycott Adobe is still asking for Web monkey > volunteers. They need help, and I think they make a good clearing > house for info. > > It'd be nice to merge some of the protest sites, like freesklyarov.org > and boycottadobe.com. But that's just me. Yes, it would be nice. Are the webmasters willing to merge into one site? -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ From declan at well.com Wed Jul 25 13:15:08 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Feinstein is a socialist In-Reply-To: <20010725145749.A14066@ofhell.org>; from arya@ofhell.org on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 02:57:49PM -0500 References: <200107251721.KAA22632@shell3.ba.best.com> <87y9pcdes0.fsf@mathdogs.com> <20010725145749.A14066@ofhell.org> Message-ID: <20010725161508.A16729@cluebot.com> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 02:57:49PM -0500, sjh wrote: > Yes, this is a shameless plug for the Libertarian party. But no one > else cares about the Constitution anymore.... If Libertarians made > up half of Congress, the DMCA would never have passed; This is true. I'm not intimately familiar with the Libertarian Party, but from my interviews with their officials, they would have opposed the DMCA. Instead, as we know, the Senate agreed to it unanimously, and the House approved it by voice vote then unanimously bypassed a procedural step that would have delayed the DMCA's enactment. All in the finest "bipartisan" manner, of course. -Declan From randy at middlewest.com Wed Jul 25 13:13:07 2001 From: randy at middlewest.com (Randy Rathbun) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] broaden the movement In-Reply-To: <996089980.27500.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <996089980.27500.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200107251513070130.058F443C@64.51.184.34> The problem with "copy controlled media" is that it does not have a negative enough sound to it. A lesson can be learned from the abortion sides - one side calls themselves "pro life" but the other side refers to them as "anti choice". Talking about your enemy as "anti anything" sticks with most people, much like the word "communist". The word "crippled" has much more of a punch to it. It is a word that scares a lot of people. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 7/25/01 at 11:39 AM Jacob Gemmell wrote: >I've always prefered the term "Copy Controlled Media". It says excactly >what they are trying to do. > ----- If Bill Gates had a nickle for every time Windows crashed.... Oh, wait, he does! - posting on slashdot.org From admin at seattle-chat.com Wed Jul 25 13:18:03 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought In-Reply-To: <01072513040200.14496@stumpy> Message-ID: Would having Dmitry's family over here, look better to a Bail judge, about flight risk? Any arrangments made to that affect? From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 13:20:36 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Why EFF did not stop attacking Adobe? In-Reply-To: <1983216.996012916@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <20010725202036.62883.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> lower "marginal costs" are what the supports of DMCA are aiming at!!! (it is a shame and embarrassment they are sacrificing america's constitution in the process) and right now they believe that their marginal cost will be less under DMCA than under any known alternative, thus they will continue their support for DMCA - plain and simple! should the converse occur they will drop DMCA like a hot potato - saying what DMCA! --- Pablos Kadrevis wrote: > Y.S., > > The EFF has no direct association with Boycott > Adobe. We have a common > interest in freeing Dmitry Sklyarov, and repealing > the DMCA. > > The link on to the Russian > T-Shirt site is not an > endorsement, and I would encourage the EFF to take > money from Adobe or U.S. > Attorney Robert Mueller if they had the chance. > > Is your use of Hotmail and link to MSN Explorer an > endorsment for Microsoft > and their level of decency and fairness? > > Thanks for writing, pablos. > (a formerly happy user of Adobe products.) > > --On Tuesday, July 24, 2001 9:43 PM -0700 y s > wrote: > > > Dear EFF: > > Are you still associated with > http://www.BoycottAdobe.com ? > > They keep attacking Adobe, and attacking in pretty > nasty way. For > > example, their link "Russian T-shirt" promotes a > T-shirt with obscene > > and offensive text. And there is a note: "$1.00 > per shirt will be > > donated to eff.org". Do you accept this $1? Looks > pretty hipocritical > > after your statement: "EFF praises Adobe for doing > the right thing, We > > are pleased to see that Adobe has lived up to the > high standard of > > integrity that has made the company successful." > > I would expect a little higher level od decency > and fairness from a > > company that claims to be a champion of fairness. > > > > Y.S., a happy user of Adobe products. > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > > > -- > Pablos Kadrevis > pablos@kadrevis.com > 415.420.3806 > www.shmoo.com/~pablos > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 25 13:20:46 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Feinstein is a socialist In-Reply-To: <20010725161508.A16729@cluebot.com> References: <200107251721.KAA22632@shell3.ba.best.com> <87y9pcdes0.fsf@mathdogs.com> <20010725145749.A14066@ofhell.org> <20010725161508.A16729@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <877kww69r5.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "DM" == Declan McCullagh writes: DM> This is true. I'm not intimately familiar with the Libertarian DM> Party, but from my interviews with their officials, they would DM> have opposed the DMCA. Well, I believe one of the Libertarian politicians in Austin, TX attended and spoke at the protest there on Monday. Good for him! Although I'm always wary of camel noses, it may be worthwhile for groups around the country to contact their local Libertarian party. Who knows? Some warm bodies could help. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 13:22:23 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: He's free.... In-Reply-To: <012a01c114c1$982a30b0$8957a4d8@compugenx.com> Message-ID: <20010725202223.95265.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> what a great paragraph! --- Jimmy Alderson wrote: > "That ideas should spread from one to another over > the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of > man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have > been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, > when she made them , like fire, expansible over all > space, without lessening their density at any point, > and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have > our physical being, incapable of confinement or > exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in > nature, be a subject of property." -Thomas > Jefferson > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jason H Clouse > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 12:02 AM > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Re: He's free.... > > > > < the law ought to be.>> > > > > Kind of depends on what you mean. The fact of the > matter is that any law > > passed by the national legislature that addresses > Copyright or Patent in > > this manner is in violation of the Constitution by > exceeding the > > enumerated powers. Congress was only given > permission to pass laws > > granting a time-limited monopoly right to authors > and inventors and NOT > > to grant a property right in this matter. > Furthermore, *ownership* of > > the expression of ideas is a patently (if you'll > pardon the pun) silly > > notion. BTW, I'm a musician--I definitely stand > to gain from the > > ownership of expression; but not much more than I > do from a limited > > monopoly right. > > > > < recognized intangible > > property.>> > > > > Certainly this matter is heavily based on who you > talk to. I can't see > > any sensible reason to consider intangibles to be > property. > > Nevertheless, if you have any good arguments for > it I'd certainly be > > willing to hear them. > > > > < entire proceeding; leave > > the unsupportable arguments for the other side.>> > > > > Agreed. > > > > J > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for > less! > > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From admin at seattle-chat.com Wed Jul 25 13:06:55 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP will not change their tune! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Are there Librarian Unions we can contact? -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Xcott Craver Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 12:39 PM To: Will Doherty Cc: Marvin; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] AAP will not change their tune! On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > Specifically, if someone knows how to have a > good sit-down chat with Pat Schroeder about all this, > we would be most grateful. Um, I'm not sure just how much people know about Pat Schroeder and the AAP, but I highly doubt that they are going to change their position. They are not an organization that has simply reached their stance via a misunderstanding of the issues. The AAP has become quite notorious for their vilification of libaries. A spokeswoman for AAP once referred to librarians as "Waco types" for possessing the radical terrorist notion of wanting to make books available for free. http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-201-6545588-0.html =S _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From admin at seattle-chat.com Wed Jul 25 13:22:23 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of companys that should be boycotted, for supporting the DMCA. Message-ID: List of companys that should be boycotted, for supporting the DMCA. They are members of the BSA which lobbied hard to get this bill passed. Adobe Systems Apple Computer Filemaker Autodesk Bentley Systems CNC Software/Mastercam. Macromedia Microsoft Symantec UGS BSA Policy Council Compaq Dell Entrust IBM Intel Intuit Network Associates Novell Sybase From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 13:27:24 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010725202724.64515.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> yes! better than if they are in russia - it would look even better should adobe hire him as a consultant during the trial! --- Charles Eakins wrote: > Would having Dmitry's family over here, look better > to a Bail judge, about > flight risk? Any arrangments made to that affect? > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ed at hintz.org Wed Jul 25 13:33:07 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought Message-ID: <200107252033.f6PKX7c09004@phil.hintz.org> On 7/25/01 1:18 PM, admin@seattle-chat.com thus spake: >Would having Dmitry's family over here, look better to a Bail judge, about >flight risk? Any arrangments made to that affect? I extended an open offer to Oxana, inviting her and the children the option of staying at my house in the bay area for as long as they want should this issue go to court. As of our last communication on the issue, she remains hopeful that Dmitry's release will happen without a trial, and would much rather have my family visit her and Dmitry in Moscow... I would also prefer this solution. But my offer remains open. Likewise, I would gladly host Dmitry for the duration of any possible trial. I feel this is the least I can do to attempt to correct the injustice done to the family at the hands of my government (and for the record, I voted against every single one of my elected reps-straight libertarian ticket last time around). Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Wed Jul 25 13:34:08 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:07 2005 Subject: Dmitry has lawyers now? [Re: [free-sklyarov] Don't Judge an eBook Case By Its Coverage] In-Reply-To: <20010725120830.E14160@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Jon O . wrote: > It's too early to know what Sklyarov's legal fate will be. But > anti-DMCA protesters may need to find a better case to convince the > public that the law is misguided and should be rolled back. > > http://biz.yahoo.com/bizwk/010725/u2uwdgj7_smmdbiz41ntqa.html The article says, "His attorneys say he is innocent, and has been unfairly targeted in an attempt to intimidate software programmers." Do we know what "attorneys" this refers to? Thus far on this list, we've only heard of a public defender (Rene Valladares) who represented him at the bail/extradition hearings. Has he acquired more permanent/reliable representation? Have EFF lawyers secured his consent to representation by them? -- -alexf From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 13:33:59 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congressman Rick Boucher Speaks Up... In-Reply-To: <20010725160443.A15914@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010725203359.98020.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> yes! declan:) --- Declan McCullagh wrote: > Not-so-coincidentally, see: > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45548,00.html > > -Declan > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sethf at sethf.com Wed Jul 25 13:40:57 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Libertarian anti-DMCA is fantasy References: <200107251721.KAA22632@shell3.ba.best.com> <87y9pcdes0.fsf@mathdogs.com> <20010725145749.A14066@ofhell.org> <20010725161508.A16729@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <3B5F2ED9.448D70E6@sethf.com> > On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 02:57:49PM -0500, sjh wrote: >> Yes, this is a shameless plug for the Libertarian party. But no one >> else cares about the Constitution anymore.... If Libertarians made >> up half of Congress, the DMCA would never have passed; > Declan McCullagh wrote > This is true. I'm not intimately familiar with the Libertarian Party, Ahem. "In Defense of Libertarianism" by Declan McCullagh and Solveig Singleton http://hotwired.com/synapse/feature/97/36/mccullagh4a_1.html While you may not be "intimately familiar" with the Libertarian PARTY, your extreme advocacy of the ideology has gained you special notice in Lawrence Lessig's book _Code_ : http://code-is-law.org/conclusion_excerpt.html And extends to being literally, not metaphorically, a joke about it: http://www.g21.net/tunanow18.html > but from my interviews with their officials, they would have opposed > the DMCA. But they didn't have to get a big campaign contribution from the RIAA or MPAA to run against their opponents. So they could say anything they thought would be the right answer for that interview. This is a key part of the fantasy of Libertarianism. Since there ARE no Libertarian Party members in Congress, they can promise you the earth, the moon, the sky, there will never be a vote to prove them wrong. In fact, what this is doing is contrasting less - that's less - than a campaign promise, with real-world imperatives. That's hardly an intelligent comparison. There were no lobbyists calling on a Libertarian congress member saying "This is about PROPERTY RIGHTS. It's about THEFT of OUR PROPERTY. You should see that Libertarianism requires that PROPERTY be protected from hacker-THIEVES. And here is a very large campaign contribution to help you study our point of view." If that happened, I think the votes would be a different story. By the way, Declan, I'm still waiting to tell me how you reconcile your views with making a living from a government-granted monopoly which punishes people for (too much) speech if someone happens to have said that speech earlier (aka "copyrighted articles"). -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From rsperberg at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 13:39:41 2001 From: rsperberg at yahoo.com (Roger Sperberg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: FYI:Not all Publishers agree with the APA. In-Reply-To: <20010725200239.25058.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This excerpt only includes the first two and the last two paragraphs of the statement. Foster says many other things, including: "Some people think Adobe has to pursue this type of action to reassure publishers their content is safe. But what publishers need to know is that Adobe understands the technology and its current limits, and the problems with its own software, and that it understands what our customers -- that is, readers-- need and what the immature e-book industry needs in order to grow." And: "We also recognize from our close experience working with electronic books, that readers need and deserve greater leeway with the e-books they purchase than the current limited DRM and security technology provides," Foster stated. Or just follow the link to the EPC page on this-- www.epccentral.org/dmca.html -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of alfee cube Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 4:03 PM To: Andrew Lawrence; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Fwd: FYI:Not all Publishers agree with the APA. am i overlooking something - their Dymitry statement is not obvious to me? --- Andrew Lawrence wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > Subject: FYI:Not all Publishers agree with the APA. > Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 02:06:53 -0400 (EDT) > From: "J.E. Cripps" > To: > > > The free-sklyarov list isn't taking my posts :-( > Also I don't have time to edit this into anything > shorter. > > > Here's some background and comment from Electronic > Publishers Coalition > EPC Condemns Criminal Use of DMCA > http://www.epccentral.org > His (or his company's) product is legal in many > European countries. > > "While all publishers are concerned about > professional copyright > thieves, the Electronic Publishers Coalition > condemns the use of the > criminal provisions of the DMCA against Dimitry > Sklyarov, a Russian > programmer and cryptanalyst visiting the United > States." > > "Persecution of an individual shouldn't be any > company's response to > a commercial disagreement, especially regarding > copyright," Connie > Foster, the EPC executive director said Sunday." > > "Sklyarov, a graduate student at Bauman Moscow State > Technical > University, reported at a Las Vegas conference on > his research on > e-book security performed for his dissertation. His > research was later > incorporated into a permissions-removal program > called Advanced E-book > Processor, or AEBPR, by ElcomSoft, a Russian > software company that now > employs him. The program apparently sold fewer than > ten copies before > being pulled from the market at Adobe's insistence. > It had not been > available commercially for more than two weeks > before Sklyarov's visit > to America." > > "AEBPR allows users to make backups of legally > purchased Adobe eBooks > that ignore the eBooks' restrictions on copying, > printing and lending, > if any, and permit the eBook to be read on a > replacement copy of Adobe > eBook Reader if the initial installation no longer > functions or if the > user upgrades to a new computer. It does not work > with eBooks sold to > another user. Since under Russian law, such backups > are mandatory for > data sellers, Adobe eBooks contravene the law and > AEBPR is legal in > Russia, as well as in Germany and Scandinavia, and > other countries. > Its use in the U.S. is not permitted under the DMCA, > the Digital > Millennium Copyright Act." > > -- > Keep posted about latest developements: > http://freesklyarov.org > http://boycottadobe.org http://www.anti-dmca.org > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From jono at microshaft.org Wed Jul 25 13:41:41 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Is the Open Source movement at risk from the DMCA? In-Reply-To: <200107251513070130.058F443C@64.51.184.34>; from randy@middlewest.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 03:13:07PM -0500 References: <996089980.27500.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200107251513070130.058F443C@64.51.184.34> Message-ID: <20010725134141.B15650@networkcommand.com> Is the Open Source movement at risk from the DMCA? Microsoft Word contains a proprietary file format. Open Source developers often work to reverse engineer this format in order to create compatible products. Star Office is a Word alternative and can read these word documents. Is it only a matter of time before MS says you are circumventing a protection? Anyone care to comment? http://www.anti-dmca.org From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 13:43:31 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Update: from the legal point of view... In-Reply-To: <20010725144107.B26785@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: <20010725204331.68449.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> all should take the time to read Pamela Samuelson's law review article - it is complicated and subtle but will be helpful as debate turns from whether to amend DMCA to how to amend it. (it is at the below link and at eff and other places also.) --- "Peter A. Peterson II" wrote: > Hi all, > > I have a friend who is currently in law school and > is sympathetic to > Dmitry's cause as well as being anti-DMCA. He sent > along some documents > that I don't have time to read right now, but I > thought I'd pass them > along. If you think they're useful, I encourage you > to use them (or > contact the authors and use them) in defining your > position and/or > creating literature to use in your further protests. > > They are available at: > > http://two-bit.ufo.chicago.il.us/free-sklyarov/ > > Free Dmitry, > > pedro > > > ----- Forwarded message from "Werling, Kristian" > ---- > Pete- > > I dug up two articles from an online legal service > about copyrights in > general and the DMCA. The DMCA article is by Barb > Samuelson, a leading IP > and DMCA expert. These articles are from law > reviews which are generally > pretty technical legal writing. They aren't a > really good short > introduction, but it's the best I could come up with > for now. > > I had a great professor this past semester in a > class called "Cyberlaw." We > spent a good bit of time on the DMCA and its > negative aspects. I e-mailed > the prof to ask him about good intros for a > layperson to both copyright and > the DMCA. Hopefully he can point out something > good. > > Feel free to forward those articles to whoever, I > didn't know if you would > want to throw them out on the mailing list or not. > > Keep up the good work. Some interesting > conversation on the list. I'm > enjoying it. > > Krist > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > -- > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- FBI has imprisioned a > Russian software > engineer for promoting and teaching the concept > of "fair use". > Read more: > http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From roylo at sr2c.com Wed Jul 25 13:48:19 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] More on Sat.'s Protest Message-ID: <012901c1154b$22e8d7e0$0200a8c0@jwin> from http://www.dibona.com/dmca/index.shtml I have pick out some names in companies such as Larry Augustin - CEO and Chairman, VA Linux Systems Bob Young - Co-Founder and Chairman, Red Hat, Inc. Art F. Tyde - CEO, Linuxcare etc.. I'm think about asking those people to let me to send an e-mail regrading the protest on Sat. to everyone in ther company. 'cause we need to let people outside of this mail list to know about it. BTW does anyone have the e-mail address of those ppl.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010725/296d8405/attachment.html From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 13:49:14 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Don't Judge an eBook Case By Its Coverage In-Reply-To: <87puao6c1p.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010725204914.69842.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> the article states that copyright holders can hardly be "can hardly be blamed for trying to save their business models" - maybe they should try and adapt their business models? copyright holders --- Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "JO" == Jon O writes: > > JO> It's too early to know what Sklyarov's legal > fate will be. But > JO> anti-DMCA protesters may need to find a > better case to > JO> convince the public that the law is > misguided and should be > JO> rolled back. > > JO> > http://biz.yahoo.com/bizwk/010725/u2uwdgj7_smmdbiz41ntqa.html > > Well, this is a load of hooey. His argument seems to > be that Dmitry > was arrested properly under the phrasing of the > DMCA. > > I'm not sure if that's true, but SO WHAT if it is? > This is why we > don't like the DMCA! It's a bad law! We want Dmitry > freed and the law > changed. Laws can be wrong. > > ~Klepht > > -- > klepht@eleutheria.org > http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From wild at eff.org Wed Jul 25 13:49:20 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF Email Down Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725134849.031818c8@pop3.norton.antivirus> EFF's email to and from the outside world is currently down... our system administrators are working on the problem. Could someone please call me at 415-436-9333 x111 to tell me if the announcement about EFF's meeting on Friday with the US Attorney's office made it to the free-sklyarov list? For now, I can access email only at wild@sfo.com, my personal email address. Free Dmitry and Reform Section 1201 of the DMCA, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- From alansmitheee at hotmail.com Wed Jul 25 20:49:31 2001 From: alansmitheee at hotmail.com (Alan Smithee) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] protests in Las Vegas Message-ID: YES! Go protest outside Dmitry's jail! Go, go, GO! Now, now, NOW! Take candles. Set up vigals. Ring Liberty Bells! We need to keep making noise! We need to keep Dmitry in the news every day like Chandra! >-----Original Message----- >From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net >[mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Johnny Crow >Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 11:18 AM >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net >Subject: [free-sklyarov] protests in Las Vegas > > >Hello, > I live in Las Vegas Where this went down. And I am Astonished that no one >is protesting there (Im on vacation right now) but i think that a well >organized protest in Las Vegas would be great. I know their are a lot of >people willing. If anyone is interested speak up. > >thanks, >Slacker _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 25 13:53:32 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] regular list update Message-ID: <20010725135331.C16094@zork.net> In the week that this list has been active, it has seen 2141 messages. It also currently stands at 701 members. That's roughly 300 messages a day, and 100 subscribers per day (though the distribution is not so even). 300 messages going out to 700 people totals 210,000 mails being sent out per day, or a little over 145 per minute! -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From sethf at sethf.com Wed Jul 25 13:56:12 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fox letter about the DMCA to ISPs References: <20010724150134.F7908@networkcommand.com> <20010725095253.C29863@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <3B5F326C.B3C06DD9@sethf.com> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 03:01:34PM -0700, Jon O . wrote: [quoting Fox] >> The Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA") and other civil and criminal >> statutes provide for severe penalties (including prison sentences of up >> to 10 years, forfeiture of equipment, and fines of up to $2 million per >> incident) against persons who record and post pirated copies of films on >> the Internet. > > Tom wrote: > are they for real? Yes, they are for real. Take a look at http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/1204.html (a) In General. - Any person who violates section 1201 or 1202 willfully and for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain - (1) shall be fined not more than $500,000 or imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both, for the first offense; and (2) shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned for not more than 10 years, or both, for any subsequent offense. So while I just see one million, not two million, that's a quibble. That's the maximums, in the "financial gain" condition. But still, as we've just seen, it's not exactly unthinkable to be charged there ... > is there anything besides 1st degree murder that carries a higher penalty? Sure, e.g. drug crimes. In California, you go to prison for LIFE on the third conviction of certain type of felonies, and those aren't rare at all. Also, check out all the stories on, for example, "Families Against Mandatory Minimums" http://www.famm.org Even the old Communications Decency Act had penalties of two years in prison. It's called being "Tough On Crime". -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 13:55:28 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF Email Down In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725134849.031818c8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20010725205528.35738.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com> i just get busy sig --- Will Doherty wrote: > EFF's email to and from the outside world is > currently > down... our system administrators are working on the > problem. > > Could someone please call me at 415-436-9333 x111 > to tell me if the announcement about EFF's meeting > on Friday with the US Attorney's office made it > to the free-sklyarov list? > > For now, I can access email only at wild@sfo.com, > my personal email address. > > Free Dmitry and Reform Section 1201 of the DMCA, > > Will Doherty > Online Activist / Media Relations > Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > Web http://www.eff.org > > Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights > in the digital age > ------- > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fegray at npl.uiuc.edu Wed Jul 25 13:56:07 2001 From: fegray at npl.uiuc.edu (Fred Gray) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Champaign-Urbana a SUCCESS Message-ID: <20010725155607.C20305@npl.uiuc.edu> Hi, I'm happy to report that our educational protest this morning down in Champaign-Urbana was a success beyond my wildest expectations! There were 11 of "us" there at various points between 11:00 and 1:00. I think the maximum number at any one time was 8. I'm sure we set the record for largest fraction of the area population at an anti-DMCA protest, for what it's worth. :-) (There are 179,669 of us according to the 2000 census.) We handed out flyers and said a few words to about 200 people. We had detailed conversations with about 20 to 30 people, most of whom were quite sympathetic. We used one locally-made flyer, and also Ben Fry's "About the Digital Millennium Copyright Act" flyer (many thanks to Ben!). We took a group picture, and I'll try to get it on the Web sometime soon. I also plan to send the picture to our Congressional delegation. This might be a good thing to do as a general practice for each rally: a picture can show that there are real honest-to-gosh human beings behind the letters that they're getting flooded with. A reporter from the local public radio station, WILL, came by and interviewed several of us. He said that they would probably run a story on their afternoon newscasts today. Maybe we'll make the local break on "All Things Considered": that would be pretty cool. Thanks very much, -- Fred Gray *** FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV *** http://www.freesklyarov.org *** From krw5 at qwest.net Wed Jul 25 13:41:11 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of companys that should be boycotted, for supporting the DMCA. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072513411102.14496@stumpy> On Wednesday 25 July 2001 13:22, you wrote: > List of companys that should be boycotted, for supporting the DMCA. They > are members of the BSA which lobbied hard to get this bill passed. > > ... > Microsoft Most of us have probably been boycotting this one for years, but again, we'll have to lead the worlds sheep to "where *we* think they ought to go today" before we make a dent. roger From wild at eff.org Wed Jul 25 14:00:41 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF Email Back Up! Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725140001.03001fd8@pop3.norton.antivirus> EFF email is now back up. Thanks to those who called. Free Dmitry and Reform Section 1201 of the DMCA, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- From seth.johnson at realmeasures.dyndns.org Wed Jul 25 13:44:14 2001 From: seth.johnson at realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit Message-ID: See, this is a <> idea. What about we get up a fund and offer her and her child a round trip with an indefinite stay? Suggest she visit some of the demonstrations. And let the media know she'll be there. We could incrementally have different demonstration sites scare up funds for her to visit them. This is such a great idea. Seth Johnson -----Original Message----- From: "Charles Eakins" Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:18:03 -0700 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought > Would having Dmitry's family over here, look better to a Bail judge, > about > flight risk? Any arrangments made to that affect? > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 25 14:05:44 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] regular list update In-Reply-To: <20010725135331.C16094@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 01:53:32PM -0700 References: <20010725135331.C16094@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010725140544.J14917@zork.net> Nick Moffitt writes: > In the week that this list has been active, it has seen 2141 messages. > It also currently stands at 701 members. That's roughly 300 messages > a day, and 100 subscribers per day (though the distribution is not so > even). > > 300 messages going out to 700 people totals 210,000 mails being sent > out per day, or a little over 145 per minute! Note that there are now 104 members on free-sklyarov-announce, so if there were no duplicates, we would have 800 subscribers to pro-Sklyarov lists. (People who unsubscribe from free-sklyarov are now being notified that free-sklyarov-announce exists, so hopefully those who can't keep up with this list will stay in touch.) Given that most people who care about an issue don't usually sign up for a mailing list, I think this says pretty amazing things about the size of the movement. In addition, there is a Russian-language list at ezhe.ru to which we have been directing Russian speakers. I am also aware of regional lists for several parts of the U.S. This makes me confident that there are over 1,000 active subscriptions to pro-Sklyarov lists worldwide. (But there is some overlap in list membership.) I was happy to note that the most recent issue of EFF's EFFector newsletter, which has tens of thousands of subscribers, was chock full of good information about the situation. Everyone here deserves lots of credit for helping get the word out; please keep up the good work! Thanks to everyone who's hosting web sites or lists: especially Nick Moffitt and the Berkeley XCF. Speaking of Berkeley, we still need people to write to the UC Press, to Stanford University Press, and to the CSLI Press. Perhaps someone could send a paper letter to Don Knuth about the latter? -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From honig at sprynet.com Wed Jul 25 13:56:46 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Please, get a grip. Was: (Fox letter about the DMCA to ISPs) In-Reply-To: <20010725125412.J14160@networkcommand.com> References: <20010725185904.C17322@lemuria.org> <20010724150134.F7908@networkcommand.com> <20010725185904.C17322@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010725135646.009d62a0@pop.sprynet.com> At 12:54 PM 7/25/01 -0700, Jon O . wrote: > >Look! You guys are discussing the problem not the solution. >If no one was stealing these movies, the MPAA and RIAA would >have no grounds for the DMCA. So, quit talking about the bait, >and discourage people stealing this stuff whenever possible. > >They are using this as leverage for a power grab that threatens >all of us! A man once caught a leprechaun who was obligated to tell him where the gold was in the ground. The man tied a ribbon around the tree over the gold, and made the leprechaun pledge not to remove the ribbon. When the man returned with a shovel he found all the trees had ribbons. From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 25 14:09:07 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Libertarian anti-DMCA is fantasy In-Reply-To: <3B5F2ED9.448D70E6@sethf.com>; from sethf@sethf.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 04:40:57PM -0400 References: <200107251721.KAA22632@shell3.ba.best.com> <87y9pcdes0.fsf@mathdogs.com> <20010725145749.A14066@ofhell.org> <20010725161508.A16729@cluebot.com> <3B5F2ED9.448D70E6@sethf.com> Message-ID: <20010725140907.F16094@zork.net> Begin Seth Finkelstein quotation: > By the way, Declan, I'm still waiting to tell me how you > reconcile your views with making a living from a government-granted > monopoly which punishes people for (too much) speech if someone > happens to have said that speech earlier (aka "copyrighted > articles"). Crap. I seem to have subscribed to troll-declan@zork.net. How do I unsubscribe??!!?!!!! -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From declan at well.com Wed Jul 25 14:12:42 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Libertarian anti-DMCA is fantasy In-Reply-To: <3B5F2ED9.448D70E6@sethf.com>; from sethf@sethf.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 04:40:57PM -0400 References: <200107251721.KAA22632@shell3.ba.best.com> <87y9pcdes0.fsf@mathdogs.com> <20010725145749.A14066@ofhell.org> <20010725161508.A16729@cluebot.com> <3B5F2ED9.448D70E6@sethf.com> Message-ID: <20010725171242.A18966@cluebot.com> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 04:40:57PM -0400, Seth Finkelstein wrote: > > This is true. I'm not intimately familiar with the Libertarian Party, > > Ahem. > > "In Defense of Libertarianism" by Declan McCullagh and Solveig Singleton > http://hotwired.com/synapse/feature/97/36/mccullagh4a_1.html Right, and you can see other stuff I've written at cluebot.com, wired.com, politechbot.com, The New Republic, and many other sites. But being sympathetic to libertarian values is not the same as being a Libertarian Party member, which I am not and have not been, not that it is any of your business anyway. Too many journalists in Washington suck up to the trade associations and DOJ and FBI and Congress -- look at the coverage of the DMCA in 1998-- I try to be a bit more independent. As for copyright, my views are still evolving. I think copyright-anarchist arguments (though only the thoughtful ones, like Tom Bell's) have something to be said for them. But I haven't thought through the economics and law enough to have a solid opinion about what I would want copyright law to look like if I were in charge. The rest of Seth's post is, typically, nonsense or otherwise not worth the time it takes to reply. From krw5 at qwest.net Wed Jul 25 14:13:09 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Please no flames for what i'm about to propose... Message-ID: <01072514130904.14496@stumpy> I'm just trying to keep options open... Yesterday someone correctly, I think, observed that there are 2nd amendment issues here, too. Would anyone deny software can be used as a weapon? I am not a lawyer, but... The full text of the law makes various well-intentioned exceptions to the Anti Circumvention Provision for research, etc. etc. One interesting exception in Section 1201 (e) essentially exempts the U.S. government and anyone acting "officially" on its behalf. ...making the U.S. gov the only party who in all cases is allowed to bear these particular arms. Might the NRA, yes Europe, I said National Rifle Assoc, be interested in this? Are there any card carrying members out there that want to comment? They have deep pockets and most of the Republican party. roger "...cats and dogs, sleeping together!" Ghostbusters From declan at well.com Wed Jul 25 14:10:34 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Next protest? In-Reply-To: <3B5F358B.9CECFBBF@earthlink.net> References: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F99@ryentes1.mobius.com> <20010725150618.A14763@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010725170932.02075360@mail.well.com> At 05:09 PM 7/25/01 -0400, Peter wrote: >Yeah...the reason why i said August 15th is because the EFF and Usenix >have there meeting in the afternoon. >So, means press coverage will be for sure :-))) Well, the pack of reporters will probably show up for Felten & co's speech and then leave immediately after. (I actually enjoy these conferences and get to write about them, so I'll be there for the whole time.) -Declan From mickeym at mindspring.com Wed Jul 25 14:16:31 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (mickey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why is printing illegal? Message-ID: <3B5F372F.7685F30B@mindspring.com> From: http://biz.yahoo.com/bizwk/010725/u2uwdgj7_smmdbiz41ntqa.html "Company engineers allege that, as advertised, AEBPR would allow users to convert protected eBook files to so-called ``naked'' files. These files, alleged Nathanson, could be easily printed or distributed via e-mail. Either act would be in violation of copyright provisions established by companies selling eBooks encrypted by Adobe's software." This is yet another problem with the DMCA. It appears to allow "provisions established by companies" in addition to the rights granted by copyright law. As someone said earlier, the DMCA is a "plug-in" to the law. mickeym From misha2 at urbis.net.il Wed Jul 25 15:16:21 2001 From: misha2 at urbis.net.il (Michael Kupershtein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] broaden the movement References: <200107251858.OAA24902@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <3B5F4535.CE8B31AF@urbis.net.il> proclus@iname.com wrote: > On 25 Jul, noring@olagrande.net wrote: > > Don't know if it's been posted here already, so > > I'll go ahead and post the URL: > > > > http://www.sunspot.net/news/bal-pl.himowitz23jul23.story > > That was a nice tip, and it gave me an idea. The boycott was soooo > effective, perhaps we should call for a new boycott. > And here's another crazy idea: Boycott the FBI! Better yet, boycott the federal government altogether. Refuse to talk or cooperate with an employee of any federal agency without a court warrant. (Unless, of course, it's for your benefit, not theirs. The feds aren't Adobe, there isn't an alternative.) When asked why, say you're boycotting the federal govt due to FBI abuse. How does that sound? Michael P.S. Easy for me to say, I'm not a US citizen, and have no intention of visiting anytime soon. So, they can't touch me. Umm, I guess. From declan at well.com Wed Jul 25 14:17:18 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Next protest? In-Reply-To: <3B5F3741.35E5079D@earthlink.net> References: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F99@ryentes1.mobius.com> <20010725150618.A14763@cluebot.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010725170932.02075360@mail.well.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010725171539.02078020@mail.well.com> I don't feel that it's appropriate for me, as a reporter, to give you advice about the best way to organize a protest. (You wouldn't expect me to give advice to Adobe on how best to quell protests, would you?) My only advice is to make sure you have the relevant permits, etc. -Declan At 05:16 PM 7/25/01 -0400, Peter wrote: >What is if we are doing a protest right in front of the building at the >same time? >Peter > > > >Declan McCullagh wrote: > > > > At 05:09 PM 7/25/01 -0400, Peter wrote: > > >Yeah...the reason why i said August 15th is because the EFF and Usenix > > >have there meeting in the afternoon. > > >So, means press coverage will be for sure :-))) > > > > Well, the pack of reporters will probably show up for Felten & co's speech > > and then leave immediately after. (I actually enjoy these conferences and > > get to write about them, so I'll be there for the whole time.) > > > > -Declan From krw5 at qwest.net Wed Jul 25 14:21:24 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Is the Open Source movement at risk from the DMCA? In-Reply-To: <20010725134141.B15650@networkcommand.com> References: <200107251513070130.058F443C@64.51.184.34> <20010725134141.B15650@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <01072514212405.14496@stumpy> On Wednesday 25 July 2001 13:41, you wrote: > Is the Open Source movement at risk from the DMCA? > > Microsoft Word contains a proprietary file format. Open > Source developers often work to reverse engineer this > format in order to create compatible products. Star > Office is a Word alternative and can read these word > documents. Is it only a matter of time before MS says > you are circumventing a protection? > > Anyone care to comment? > 1st another disclaimer: IANAL. From free-sklyarov at happycool.com Wed Jul 25 14:18:51 2001 From: free-sklyarov at happycool.com (Victor Piterbarg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF to Meet Friday July 27 with US Attorney's Office In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725130410.03366438@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Hmmmm. Does mean we go ahead an protest on Friday? Seems to've helped during the Adobe protest. Doesn't leave much time to organize though.... -Victor -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Will Doherty Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 1:04 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF to Meet Friday July 27 with US Attorney's Office Importance: High Representatives from the Electronic Frontier Foundation will meet at 9:00am Pacific Time, this Friday, July 27, with representatives from the office of the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of California. EFF respectfully requests that protesters hold off protests until after we make a good faith attempt at negotiations aimed at dropping all charges against Dmitry Sklyarov and securing his immediate release from jail. Free Dmitry and Reform Section 1201 of the DMCA, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From declan at well.com Wed Jul 25 14:23:15 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Libertarian anti-DMCA is fantasy In-Reply-To: <20010725140907.F16094@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 02:09:07PM -0700 References: <200107251721.KAA22632@shell3.ba.best.com> <87y9pcdes0.fsf@mathdogs.com> <20010725145749.A14066@ofhell.org> <20010725161508.A16729@cluebot.com> <3B5F2ED9.448D70E6@sethf.com> <20010725140907.F16094@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010725172315.B18966@cluebot.com> Okay, okay. I'll try to ignore future trolls in the area. I did ignore the first, after all. --Declan On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 02:09:07PM -0700, Nick Moffitt wrote: > Begin Seth Finkelstein quotation: > > By the way, Declan, I'm still waiting to tell me how you > > reconcile your views with making a living from a government-granted > > monopoly which punishes people for (too much) speech if someone > > happens to have said that speech earlier (aka "copyrighted > > articles"). > > Crap. I seem to have subscribed to troll-declan@zork.net. > How do I unsubscribe??!!?!!!! > > -- > "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very > slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda > 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! > ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From mlc67 at columbia.edu Wed Jul 25 14:22:08 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF to Meet Friday July 27 with US Attorney's Office In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725130410.03366438@pop3.norton.antivirus>; from wild@eff.org on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 01:04:15PM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725130410.03366438@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20010725142208.B3303@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Frankly, I'm getting sick of these top-down decisions from the EFF and I'm wondering when the EFF is going to learn. As we saw Monday, negotiations are far more effective when there are external pressures to reach some conclusion. One comparatively easy way to generate these pressures is to hold a protest. Delaying protest until after negotiations can make the people you're negotiating with uncertain as to the size and dedication of the movement. Maybe it's a good idea to hold a protest before Friday. Maybe it isn't. I don't even know if anyone has the energy to organize and attend two protests in the same week. But it seems to me that the unilateral no-protest pronouncements from the EFF this weekend and again today show complete disdain for the opinion of anyone who doesn't work in the EFF office. The decision to protest should be left to the protestors. The input of the EFF is of course welcome, but they simply cannot make the decision themselves. Now, don't get me wrong. The money I've sent to the EFF is some of the best money I've ever spent. But it seems clear that the EFF, while very good at litigation and negotiation, has no clue when it comes to grassroots[1] movements or democratic decision making. It annoyed me the first time; it's pissing me off now; next time, I'll probably be angry. And the factionalism that that would cause is totally unnecessary. mike [1] grassroots. adj: of or involving the common people as constituting a fundamental politico-economic group; "a grassroots movement for nuclear disarmament" On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 01:04:15PM -0700, Will Doherty wrote: > EFF respectfully requests that protesters hold off > protests until after we make a good faith attempt > at negotiations aimed at dropping all charges against > Dmitry Sklyarov and securing his immediate release > from jail. -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // cell: +1 (646) 382-7220 // "facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - aldous huxley -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010725/279cf423/attachment.pgp From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 25 14:24:08 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dr. James Billington, Librarian of Congress Message-ID: <20010725142408.G16094@zork.net> Dr. James Billington is a russophile and the USA's Librarian of Librarians. Perhaps we should send him letters on the subject. http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/11/01/digital.copyright.idg/ > Billington based his statements on the recommendations of the > register of copyrights, who was assigned to consider a wide range of > possible adverse impacts of the prohibition. The Copyright Office's > primary responsibility was to assess whether current technologies > that control access to copyrighted works are "diminishing the > ability of individuals to use works in lawful, non-infringing ways," > Billington said in the statement. > > Robert Dizard Jr., staff director of the Copyright Office, said the > register of copyrights found that the access controls were adversely > affecting people who wanted to access the two exempt classes of > work. The register made the recommendation based on public comments > showing problems with these two particular classes, Dizard said, > adding that the ruling should not be considered a defeat or victory > for any particular group. > > "We would not characterize this as a rulemaking to select winners > and losers," he said. "Congress indicated in the statute that the > record had to clearly support an adverse affect" in order to obtain > an exemption. http://www.ala.org/washoff/alawon/alwn9085.html > The Librarian of Congress James Billington has ruled against the > American public and library users by negating fair use in the > digital arena. Billington allowed only two exceptions in the fair > use proceeding involving the 1201 anticircumvention provision of the > Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). > > A preliminary review of the ruling reveals that Billington adopted > recommendations by Marybeth Peters, Register of Copyrights, to > provide exemptions only for malfunctions and to determine which > sites are blocked by filtering software. The exemption related to > circumventing filtering software may be useful although problematic. http://www.uwex.edu/disted/desien/2000/0011/copyright.htm > LIBRARIANS AND DIGITAL COPYRIGHT - Affirmation of the Digital > Millennium Copyright Act by the Library of Congress, has angered > librarians. The DMCA, gives owners of copyrighted digital content > control over how that content is accessed. There is particular > concern about making certain that the precepts of the "fair use" > principle are carried over to the digital age. The Librarian of > Congress, James Billington, has recently said that he believes it is > very important that the fair-use principle be maintained. He also > affirmed that the new legislation affects access, not content use. > The ruling most severely impacts students, academics and others > performing scholarly research by preventing them from getting around > technological protection measures when referring to copyrighted > material. (InformationWeek Online, 30 Oct 00) -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From admin at seattle-chat.com Wed Jul 25 14:23:13 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW: [Seattle-Sklyarov] Microsoft in violation of the DMCA? Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: seattle-sklyarov-admin@woozle.org [mailto:seattle-sklyarov-admin@woozle.org]On Behalf Of Fred McLain Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 2:14 PM To: seattle-sklyarov@woozle.org Subject: [Seattle-Sklyarov] Microsoft in violation of the DMCA? Hi folks, Here's an interesting thought. Microsoft may be in violation of the DMCA because of the software they are building into Windows XP. The software is called "Passport" because it stores users passwords on MS's internet servers. This software then can be used to bypass logins on various web services. It occurs to me that by doing this they are breaking several forms of cryptography used on the net. See this URL for a bit of information on it: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/25/technology/ebusiness/25COMP.html?todayshea dlines Note that using Passport under Win XP isn't an option - you have to use it to use XP internet services. Perhaps one way to defeat the DMCA is to start filing complaints to the FBI for any companies we can find that could be seen to be in violation of it. -Fred- _______________________________________________ seattle-sklyarov mailing list seattle-sklyarov@woozle.org http://woozle.org/mailman/listinfo/seattle-sklyarov From sethf at sethf.com Wed Jul 25 14:26:49 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... References: <8BE50F29464B6D4E95F24770000D73822A6E07@vcompro-02.vcompro.com> <027b01c11528$709c9670$3088d790@tti.com> Message-ID: <3B5F3999.3AE74D3C@sethf.com> "Mark K. Bilbo" wrote: > > Nah, the Wobblies are too much for me too. I'm just tired of the IT folk > being smeared and outlawed every time we turn around these days. By, of > course, the very same people who couldn't boot their computers without the > Help Desk. http://www.crixa.com/muse/unionsong/u025.html Solidarity Forever A Song by Ralph Chaplin When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one For the Union makes us strong Chorus Solidarity forever, solidarity forever Solidarity forever For the Union makes us strong Is there aught we hold in common with the greedy parasite Who would lash us into serfdom and would crush us with his might? Is there anything left to us but to organize and fight? For the union makes us strong It is we who ploughed the prairies, built the cities where they trade Dug the mines and built the workshops, endless miles of railroad laid Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made But the union makes us strong All the world that's owned by idle drones is ours and ours alone We have laid the wide foundations, built it skyward stone by stone It is ours, not to slave in, but to master and to own While the union makes us strong They have taken untold millions that they never toiled to earn But without our brain and muscle not a single wheel can turn We can break their haughty power gain our freedom when we learn That the Union makes us strong In our hands is placed a power greater than their hoarded gold Greater than the might of armies magnified a thousandfold We can bring to birth a new world from the ashes of the old For the Union makes us strong Notes Ralph Chaplin was a poet , artist, writer and organiser for the Industrial Workers of the World. He wrote this song in 1915 just six months before his fellow IWW songwriter Joe Hill was executed. It was to become the anthem of the American labour movement. It goes to the tune of the American Civil War song John Brown's Body.Ralph Chaplin said "I wanted a song to be full of revolutionary fervour and to have a chorus that was singing and defiant" -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From pablos at kadrevis.com Wed Jul 25 14:25:31 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Web site and 'writing your congressman' (fwd) Message-ID: <3174283.996071131@[10.0.1.220]> Anyone want to elaborate on this? pablos. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 7:07 AM -0500 From: Charles Marcus Durrett To: "pablos@kadrevis.com" Subject: The Web site and 'writing your congressman' If you write your congressman, and especially if you write the security organizations and enforcement agencies, your name will go on a list. It would be wise to preserve a core cadre who had not identified themselves as troublemakers ahead of time. As in "This is the FBI! Drop that debugger or we open fire." Chuck __________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From sethf at sethf.com Wed Jul 25 14:32:08 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Libertarian anti-DMCA is fantasy References: <200107251721.KAA22632@shell3.ba.best.com> <87y9pcdes0.fsf@mathdogs.com> <20010725145749.A14066@ofhell.org> <20010725161508.A16729@cluebot.com> <3B5F2ED9.448D70E6@sethf.com> <20010725140907.F16094@zork.net> Message-ID: <3B5F3AD8.C7BD9876@sethf.com> Nick Moffitt wrote: > > Begin Seth Finkelstein quotation: > > By the way, Declan, I'm still waiting to tell me how you > > reconcile your views with making a living from a government-granted > > monopoly which punishes people for (too much) speech if someone > > happens to have said that speech earlier (aka "copyrighted > > articles"). > > Crap. I seem to have subscribed to troll-declan@zork.net. > How do I unsubscribe??!!?!!!! Well, I seem to be subscribed to libertarian-trolls, so I sympathize. There is a serious, serious issue here, of "What Is Property'. Ranting about how Feinstein is a "socialist" and the Libertarian Party wouldn't vote for the DMCA (because someone thinks they said that), is just useless. It does not adress the problem intelligently. It's proselytizing which will drive away everyone who is not a fanatic. -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From adunston at jetstream.com Wed Jul 25 14:27:01 2001 From: adunston at jetstream.com (Adrian Dunston) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Please no flames for what i'm about to propos e... Message-ID: >Yesterday someone correctly, I think, observed that there are 2nd amendment >issues here, too. Would anyone deny software can be used as a weapon? Software cannot be used as a weapon. The idea that it can be used in ways similar to a rifle are incorrect and harmful to our cause. A piece of software is not a "digital crowbar," it is a set of written instructions (like a recipe) that a computer can implement. Weapons are regulated by the US Government. Written instructions should not be. While you can apply software to dangerous hardware ("War Games" and "2001: A Space Odyssey" were great movies), this does not make the software a weapon. I that we need to call out to powerful political organizations for help, but this particular avenue should not be explored. -Adrian P. Dunston __ (sourceCode == freeSpeech) http://www.x-omega.com/shirtdept From mlc67 at columbia.edu Wed Jul 25 14:28:36 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Please no flames for what i'm about to propose... In-Reply-To: <01072514130904.14496@stumpy>; from krw5@qwest.net on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 02:13:09PM -0700 References: <01072514130904.14496@stumpy> Message-ID: <20010725142836.C3303@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Please do not interpret this as a flame; it's not intended to be. It seems to me that equating crypto and weaponry is exactly what we want to avoid. The pro-DMCA forces babble on and on about how people are producing "digital lockpicks" and "digital crowbars" and other nasty things. The last thing we want to say is, "Yeah, Sklyarov's product is a weapon." No, we want to argue that DeCSS, eBook Processor, and whatever comes next are useful, protected tools harmful only to the profits of selfish corporations. mike On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 02:13:09PM -0700, Roger Kramer wrote: > I'm just trying to keep options open... > > Yesterday someone correctly, I think, observed that there are 2nd amendment > issues here, too. Would anyone deny software can be used as a weapon? > > I am not a lawyer, but... > The full text of the law makes various well-intentioned exceptions to the > Anti Circumvention Provision for research, etc. etc. One interesting > exception in Section 1201 (e) essentially exempts the U.S. government and > anyone acting "officially" on its behalf. ...making the U.S. gov the only > party who in all cases is allowed to bear these particular arms. > > Might the NRA, yes Europe, I said National Rifle Assoc, be interested in > this? Are there any card carrying members out there that want to comment? > They have deep pockets and most of the Republican party. > > roger -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // cell: +1 (646) 382-7220 // "facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - aldous huxley -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010725/6b2a17c4/attachment.pgp From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 25 14:31:28 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Libertarian anti-DMCA is fantasy In-Reply-To: <20010725140907.F16094@zork.net> References: <200107251721.KAA22632@shell3.ba.best.com> <87y9pcdes0.fsf@mathdogs.com> <20010725145749.A14066@ofhell.org> <20010725161508.A16729@cluebot.com> <3B5F2ED9.448D70E6@sethf.com> <20010725140907.F16094@zork.net> Message-ID: <878zhcvgpb.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt writes: NM> Crap. I seem to have subscribed to troll-declan@zork.net. NM> How do I unsubscribe??!!?!!!! Jeez, I know! We're all on the same team here, folks. Infighting is the best way to derail this effort. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From nick at zork.net Wed Jul 25 14:34:41 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... In-Reply-To: <3B5F3999.3AE74D3C@sethf.com>; from sethf@sethf.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 05:26:49PM -0400 References: <8BE50F29464B6D4E95F24770000D73822A6E07@vcompro-02.vcompro.com> <027b01c11528$709c9670$3088d790@tti.com> <3B5F3999.3AE74D3C@sethf.com> Message-ID: <20010725143440.H16094@zork.net> Begin Seth Finkelstein quotation: > Chorus > Solidarity forever, solidarity forever > Solidarity forever > For the Union makes us strong I remember hearing this sung at Union rallies in Seattle way back. It is sung to the tune of the Battle Hymn of the Republic ("Glory, glory halleluja" etc). -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From jono at microshaft.org Wed Jul 25 14:36:01 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Is the Open Source movement at risk from the DMCA? In-Reply-To: <20010725171116.F43501-100000@bsd1.nyct.net>; from cycmn@nyct.net on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 05:12:17PM -0400 References: <20010725134141.B15650@networkcommand.com> <20010725171116.F43501-100000@bsd1.nyct.net> Message-ID: <20010725143601.C16102@networkcommand.com> Ok, so we need to get the Open Source people a FAQ or quick sheet on this so they help... I'd never read this. Crazy... On 25-Jul-2001, J.E. Cripps wrote: > > > > Is the Open Source movement at risk from the DMCA? > > > Microsoft Word contains a proprietary file format. Open > > Source developers often work to reverse engineer this > > format in order to create compatible products. Star > > Office is a Word alternative and can read these word > > documents. Is it only a matter of time before MS says > > you are circumventing a protection? > > > Anyone care to comment? > > > "A subtle danger is that the DMCA gives companies effective permanent > patents on file formats. What if the next MS Word format were to claim > DMCA protection because it could be used to "Protect Copyright"? All MS > have to do is add a "Do not copy" flag to a Word document and we could > say goodbye to Star Office etc. I wonder if the DMCA could be applied > to something like an authentication protocol - MS Passport for example?" > --Richard Corfield, on c.o.l.a., c. July 21, 2001 From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 25 14:39:34 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF Email Down In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725134849.031818c8@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725134849.031818c8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <874rs0vgbt.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "WD" == Will Doherty writes: WD> Could someone please call me [...] to tell me if the WD> announcement about EFF's meeting on Friday with the US WD> Attorney's office made it to the free-sklyarov list? I haven't seen it yet. But this is damn good news! Details appreciated ASAP! ~Klepht P.S. Maybe you could put a page about this up on eff.org? -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From izel at sulam.com Wed Jul 25 14:40:26 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF to Meet Friday July 27 with US Attorney's Office Message-ID: mike castleman mlc67@columbia.edu wrote: >Now, don't get me wrong. The money I've sent to the EFF is some of the >best money I've ever spent. But it seems clear that the EFF, while >very good at litigation and negotiation, has no clue when it comes to >grassroots[1] movements or democratic decision making. It annoyed me >the first time; it's pissing me off now; next time, I'll probably be >angry. And the factionalism that that would cause is totally >unnecessary. Mike, Easy now. I don't want to call you naive. Clearly, your email address indicates that you are anything but. However, it may be the case that in this area of human endeavors, you have less than adequate experience. When the EFF tells me "We respectfully request that protests be postponed." I hear "We respectfully request that protests be postponed, nudge, nudge, wink, wink." In other words, they tell us that they cannot officially or unofficially associate themselves with any ongoing protests while showing a good faith effort to negotiate with the concerned parties. This really should not come as a surprise to anyone. It's plain bad negotiation skills to act in any other way. With that said, EVERYONE knows that EFF has no power to stop independent parties to protest whenever they want, against whatever cause they want. In fact, if anything, EFF makes it easier for these independent parties to arrange their protests by announcing their negotiation efforts reasonably ahead of time through the appropriate communication channels. However, they make a good faith effort to distance themselves from any potential protests, as they must during negotiations. So there you have it. EFF is involved in official negotiations, and they cannot associate themselves, officially or unofficially, with any protests that may simultaneously happen on the same day at the same location. Please understand this, respect this, and then go ahead and do what you would have done anyway. Thanks. - izel From sethf at sethf.com Wed Jul 25 14:42:26 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Libertarian anti-DMCA is fantasy References: <200107251721.KAA22632@shell3.ba.best.com> <87y9pcdes0.fsf@mathdogs.com> <20010725145749.A14066@ofhell.org> <20010725161508.A16729@cluebot.com> <3B5F2ED9.448D70E6@sethf.com> <20010725171242.A18966@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <3B5F3D42.228F2427@sethf.com> Declan McCullagh wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 04:40:57PM -0400, Seth Finkelstein wrote: > > > This is true. I'm not intimately familiar with the Libertarian Party, > > > > Ahem. > > > > "In Defense of Libertarianism" by Declan McCullagh and Solveig Singleton > > http://hotwired.com/synapse/feature/97/36/mccullagh4a_1.html > > Right, and you can see other stuff I've written at cluebot.com, > wired.com, politechbot.com, The New Republic, and many other > sites. But being sympathetic to libertarian values is not the same as > being a Libertarian Party member, which I am not and have not been, > not that it is any of your business anyway. I think, while the statement may have been strictly true, it left out a lot of background that a reader would have liked to know in order to place it in context. After all, Feinstein is not a member of the Socialist party either. > Too many journalists in Washington suck up to the trade associations > and DOJ and FBI and Congress -- look at the coverage of the DMCA in > 1998-- I try to be a bit more independent. Err, sucking-up (to use *your* words) to other players in Washington is not the same thing as independent. > As for copyright, my views are still evolving. I think > copyright-anarchist arguments (though only the thoughtful ones, like > Tom Bell's) have something to be said for them. But I haven't thought > through the economics and law enough to have a solid opinion about > what I would want copyright law to look like if I were in charge. There's a deep problem here, of property. While you are not obligated to think about it, that doesn't make the problem go away. > The rest of Seth's post is, typically, nonsense or otherwise not > worth the time it takes to reply. Repeat, sneering at the problems of "What Is Property", and that the key question here is how to define property-rights, will not make it go away. -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From krw5 at qwest.net Wed Jul 25 14:41:28 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Please no flames for what i'm about to propos e... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072514412806.14496@stumpy> On Wednesday 25 July 2001 14:22, you wrote: > Software cannot be used as a weapon. The idea that it can be used in ways > similar to a rifle are incorrect and harmful to our cause. A piece of > software is not a "digital crowbar," it is a set of written instructions > (like a recipe) that a computer can implement. Weapons are regulated by > the US Government. Written instructions should not be. > I prefer the 1st amendment argument, too, but I fear your (unspoken) definitions of "violence" or "threat" may be *much* too narrow. 1) Software certainly can be used as a "digital crowbar", 2) we wouldn't want the gov to monopolize such use (loosely similar to the key escrow issue) ,and 3) I'll wager in the not too distant future such uses will be *necessary* in self-defense. Anyway, knowing this isn't the face we want to put on I'm happy to let this thread promptly die. The seed is planted should it ever need to grow in the future. roger From jono at microshaft.org Wed Jul 25 14:43:31 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Is the Open Source movement at risk from the DMCA? In-Reply-To: <20010725173215.C44562-100000@bsd1.nyct.net>; from cycmn@nyct.net on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 05:33:43PM -0400 References: <20010725134141.B15650@networkcommand.com> <20010725173215.C44562-100000@bsd1.nyct.net> Message-ID: <20010725144331.E16102@networkcommand.com> Please see below: > > > There's this also to ponder: > > http://darwin.codefab.com/pipermail/random/2000-October/000439.html > [Random] DMCA renders class-dump and jad illegal > > ...[H]ow long until software is shoe horned under the "umbrella" of > > If this WERE to occur, then it would also make emulators, debuggers, and > disassemblers illegal, as well. > > Ouch. $500,000 fine and/or five years in jail for "gdb > some/random/program/you/did/not/write". > > The list isn't taking my msgs :-( > > -- > http://www.free-sklyarov.org Free Dmitry From dorr at asc.upenn.edu Wed Jul 25 14:38:34 2001 From: dorr at asc.upenn.edu (Daniel Orr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Web site and 'writing your congressman' ( fwd) Message-ID: I am a former aide a U.S. Senator. I can assure you your name will not "go on a list" if you write your Congressman and I encourage you to do so as most members of Congress DO take these letters VERY seriously. MOCs have neither the time nor the inclination to narc out their constituents, and those that did would find it came back to bite them hard come relection. Persuading Congress to amend the DMCA is a matter of educating them. Most members have little idea as to the law's impact. Letters from constituents are a good way to get them to sit up and take notice. A few things I have found helpful in such letters. 1. Write only your Congressman and/or Senator, the one representing your state and district. Other members will ignore your letter as you are not a constituent. 2. If your Senator or Member of Congress serves on a Committee relating to the DMCA such as the House or Senate Judiciary Committee, send your letter to ATTN: Judiciary LA 3. Provide a little background on the law in your letter. Many Congressional staffers are not familiar with the DMCA and will not know what you're talking about. 4. Suggest a concrete course of action. i.e. I urge you "to support Rep. Boucher's bill to include a fair use exemption for the DMCA", "write to Attorney General Ashcroft to release Sklyarov," or if your Senator/Congressman is on an applicable Committee "revisit the DMCA in your xxxxx Committee." I hope this is helpful. Cheers, Dan > -----Original Message----- > From: Pablos Kadrevis [mailto:pablos@kadrevis.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 5:26 PM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Web site and 'writing your congressman' > (fwd) > > > Anyone want to elaborate on this? > > pablos. > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > Date: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 7:07 AM -0500 > From: Charles Marcus Durrett > To: "pablos@kadrevis.com" > Subject: The Web site and 'writing your congressman' > > > If you write your congressman, and especially if you write > the security > organizations and enforcement agencies, your name will go on > a list. It > would be wise to preserve a core cadre who had not identified > themselves as > troublemakers ahead of time. > As in "This is the FBI! Drop that debugger or we open fire." > > Chuck > > > > __________________________________________________ > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From deke at fullnestaviary.com Wed Jul 25 14:41:14 2001 From: deke at fullnestaviary.com (Chris Kotrla) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF to Meet Friday July 27 with US Attorney's Office In-Reply-To: <20010725142208.B3303@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: The EFF isn't making top-down decisions. They are negotiating on behalf of Dmitry, and are using the protests as leverage. They are not ordering anyone to do anything. The message says that the "EFF respectfully requests that protesters hold off protests." We are all free to do what we want. If the office of the US Attorney didn't think the EFF had any sway, they might not agree to a meeting. Personally, I say protest the office during the meeting, and certainly protest outside of Mueller's confirmation hearing. The EFF can work with the US Attorney in good faith all they want, and we can keep protesting. -Chris -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of mike castleman Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 4:22 PM To: Will Doherty Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] EFF to Meet Friday July 27 with US Attorney's Office Frankly, I'm getting sick of these top-down decisions from the EFF and I'm wondering when the EFF is going to learn. As we saw Monday, negotiations are far more effective when there are external pressures to reach some conclusion. One comparatively easy way to generate these pressures is to hold a protest. Delaying protest until after negotiations can make the people you're negotiating with uncertain as to the size and dedication of the movement. Maybe it's a good idea to hold a protest before Friday. Maybe it isn't. I don't even know if anyone has the energy to organize and attend two protests in the same week. But it seems to me that the unilateral no-protest pronouncements from the EFF this weekend and again today show complete disdain for the opinion of anyone who doesn't work in the EFF office. The decision to protest should be left to the protestors. The input of the EFF is of course welcome, but they simply cannot make the decision themselves. Now, don't get me wrong. The money I've sent to the EFF is some of the best money I've ever spent. But it seems clear that the EFF, while very good at litigation and negotiation, has no clue when it comes to grassroots[1] movements or democratic decision making. It annoyed me the first time; it's pissing me off now; next time, I'll probably be angry. And the factionalism that that would cause is totally unnecessary. mike [1] grassroots. adj: of or involving the common people as constituting a fundamental politico-economic group; "a grassroots movement for nuclear disarmament" On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 01:04:15PM -0700, Will Doherty wrote: > EFF respectfully requests that protesters hold off > protests until after we make a good faith attempt > at negotiations aimed at dropping all charges against > Dmitry Sklyarov and securing his immediate release > from jail. -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // cell: +1 (646) 382-7220 // "facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - aldous huxley From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 25 14:55:05 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] More on Sat.'s Protest In-Reply-To: <012901c1154b$22e8d7e0$0200a8c0@jwin> References: <012901c1154b$22e8d7e0$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: <87vgkgu11i.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "r" == roylo writes: r> I'm think about asking those people to let me to send an e-mail r> regrading the protest on Sat. to everyone in ther company. r> 'cause we need to let people outside of this mail list to know r> about it. First off, is your event listed on boycottadobe.com? That's the canonical list of Free Dmitry events -- you might want to double-check there. Is the rally page still being upkept? Something tells me we're in for a whole nother wave RSN. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From krw5 at qwest.net Wed Jul 25 14:57:21 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Please no flames for what i'm about to propose... In-Reply-To: <20010725142836.C3303@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> References: <01072514130904.14496@stumpy> <20010725142836.C3303@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <01072514572107.14496@stumpy> On Wednesday 25 July 2001 14:28, you wrote: > Please do not interpret this as a flame; it's not intended to be. > > It seems to me that equating crypto and weaponry is exactly what we > want to avoid. The pro-DMCA forces babble on and on about how people > are producing "digital lockpicks" and "digital crowbars" and other > nasty things. The last thing we want to say is, "Yeah, Sklyarov's > product is a weapon." No, we want to argue that DeCSS, eBook > Processor, and whatever comes next are useful, protected tools harmful > only to the profits of selfish corporations. > Mike, I understand the image thing, but as I consider reality evasion to be The Genuiiine Root of All Evil, I'm uneasy having to "pull one over" on the public. ...and I feel marketing tassles growing on my shoes. ;) To claim as Adrian did it's not a weapon is to deny uses we've all already seen. Anyway, as was observed EVERYTHING is a potential weapon. As for the image issue... Everyone knows Americans are all gun totin' WWF-watching shoot first, question later lunatics. If they (the majority) are on our side...no image problem! Ok, I'm done... kill_thread( self(), NOW ). ; ) roger From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 25 14:57:23 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] More on Sat.'s Protest In-Reply-To: <012901c1154b$22e8d7e0$0200a8c0@jwin> References: <012901c1154b$22e8d7e0$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: <87ofq8u0xo.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "r" == roylo writes: r> I'm think about asking those people to let me to send an e-mail r> regrading the protest on Sat. to everyone in ther company. r> 'cause we need to let people outside of this mail list to know r> about it. A better plan, I think, would be to ask them to send out a message on their internal mailing lists, etc. It will carry more weight that way. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 25 14:57:54 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Portland Message-ID: <87k80wu0wt.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Any news outta Portland? Did the event there go off? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From ben at kalifornia.com Wed Jul 25 14:57:16 2001 From: ben at kalifornia.com (Ben Ford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit References: Message-ID: <3B5F40BC.90408@kalifornia.com> Seth Johnson wrote: >See, this is a <> idea. > >What about we get up a fund and offer her and her child a round trip with >an indefinite stay? > >Suggest she visit some of the demonstrations. And let the media know >she'll be there. We could incrementally have different demonstration >sites scare up funds for her to visit them. > >This is such a great idea. > >Seth Johnson > >-----Original Message----- >From: "Charles Eakins" >Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:18:03 -0700 >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought > >>Would having Dmitry's family over here, look better to a Bail judge, >>about >>flight risk? Any arrangments made to that affect? >> I'd donate $20 to that. -- Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are going to burn in Hell forever. From free-sklyarov at happycool.com Wed Jul 25 14:57:19 2001 From: free-sklyarov at happycool.com (Victor Piterbarg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF to Meet Friday July 27 with US Attorney's Office In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think the EFF is handling is much better this time. They are not saying "We are cancelling the protests, go home, nothing to see here," like they did the first time. Now we are being respectfully asked. We need to respectfully disagree and go on with the protests. Everybody wins! -Victor -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Izel Sulam Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 2:40 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF to Meet Friday July 27 with US Attorney's Office mike castleman mlc67@columbia.edu wrote: >Now, don't get me wrong. The money I've sent to the EFF is some of the >best money I've ever spent. But it seems clear that the EFF, while >very good at litigation and negotiation, has no clue when it comes to >grassroots[1] movements or democratic decision making. It annoyed me >the first time; it's pissing me off now; next time, I'll probably be >angry. And the factionalism that that would cause is totally >unnecessary. Mike, Easy now. I don't want to call you naive. Clearly, your email address indicates that you are anything but. However, it may be the case that in this area of human endeavors, you have less than adequate experience. When the EFF tells me "We respectfully request that protests be postponed." I hear "We respectfully request that protests be postponed, nudge, nudge, wink, wink." In other words, they tell us that they cannot officially or unofficially associate themselves with any ongoing protests while showing a good faith effort to negotiate with the concerned parties. This really should not come as a surprise to anyone. It's plain bad negotiation skills to act in any other way. With that said, EVERYONE knows that EFF has no power to stop independent parties to protest whenever they want, against whatever cause they want. In fact, if anything, EFF makes it easier for these independent parties to arrange their protests by announcing their negotiation efforts reasonably ahead of time through the appropriate communication channels. However, they make a good faith effort to distance themselves from any potential protests, as they must during negotiations. So there you have it. EFF is involved in official negotiations, and they cannot associate themselves, officially or unofficially, with any protests that may simultaneously happen on the same day at the same location. Please understand this, respect this, and then go ahead and do what you would have done anyway. Thanks. - izel _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From pablos at kadrevis.com Wed Jul 25 15:06:52 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: ? (fwd) Message-ID: <3323096.996073612@[10.0.1.220]> This person, and a lot of other people need good introductory information about the DMCA and the issues. has a steep learning curve. I need suggestions for links to put on the Boycott Adobe and Reject Mueller sites. pablos. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 2:42 PM -0400 From: aynfan To: Pablos Kadrevis Subject: Re: ? Yes there are. In some, there is a vague reference to a WIPO draft and some talk of passing a US law. What does or will this DMCA law say? I think you assume that because you know everything there is to know about this subject, we all do. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pablos Kadrevis" To: "aynfan" Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 2:25 PM Subject: Re: ? There are a bunch of links on the right hand side of the page. Digital Milleneum Copyright Act pablos. --On Wednesday, July 25, 2001 9:02 AM -0400 aynfan wrote: > What is DMCA. I think I'm against it, but no where on the page or any of > the links is it described. It is aluded to all over the place, but not > defined. > Bob Davison > > > NetZero Platinum > No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access > Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! > http://www.netzero.net > -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From morganw at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 15:09:59 2001 From: morganw at yahoo.com (Morgan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Why is printing illegal? Message-ID: <20010725220959.72045.qmail@web13408.mail.yahoo.com> mickeym wrote: >This is yet another problem with the DMCA. It appears to allow >"provisions established by companies" in addition to the rights >granted by copyright law. As someone said earlier, the DMCA is > a "plug-in" to the law. Wow! I hadn't really realized this before, but it strikes me as awfully bizarre. I wasn't convinced Elcomsoft's tool was really all that legal and wonderful (in the US); my reason for protesting was that I think it's never worth taking a person's freedom for a property crime with very abstract "victims." (we have civil court for that) License agreements can have all sorts of special requirements because they essentially fall under contract instead of copyright law (obviously IANAL). Does anyone know if pre-DMCA, could criminal charges apply (fraud?) if a license violation that wasn't a copyright violation occurred? I've heard of threats to reviewers of beta software (who agreed not to talk about it) (Anarchy Online), but I haven't heard of threats that cited DMCA as their biggest stick for enforcing super-copyright provisions. If corporations can **write their own laws** because their provisions steamroller over provisions Congress gave us, but circumventing their provisions is a criminal act, that strikes me as awfully un-Constitutional. If I transmit a TV show upside-down and require viewers to watch it standing on their heads, is someone who tells people to turn their TVs over a criminal? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From kastlyn at unixtribe.net Wed Jul 25 15:07:57 2001 From: kastlyn at unixtribe.net (Kastlyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Please no flames for what i'm about to propose... In-Reply-To: <01072514130904.14496@stumpy> Message-ID: Roger, I think this is an excellent point, and thank you for reminding me of it. =} . Though not a member of the NRA myself, my father (your typical gun-toting college professor ;}) is. I think I'll have a little talk with him about it tonight, and see what he thinks about it, and who in the decision-making body of the NRA would be best to contact on this matter. =} -=Amie Christensen=- On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Roger Kramer wrote: > I'm just trying to keep options open... > > Yesterday someone correctly, I think, observed that there are 2nd amendment > issues here, too. Would anyone deny software can be used as a weapon? > > I am not a lawyer, but... > The full text of the law makes various well-intentioned exceptions to the > Anti Circumvention Provision for research, etc. etc. One interesting > exception in Section 1201 (e) essentially exempts the U.S. government and > anyone acting "officially" on its behalf. ...making the U.S. gov the only > party who in all cases is allowed to bear these particular arms. > > Might the NRA, yes Europe, I said National Rifle Assoc, be interested in > this? Are there any card carrying members out there that want to comment? > They have deep pockets and most of the Republican party. > > roger > > "...cats and dogs, sleeping together!" Ghostbusters > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 25 15:10:16 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Acting U.S. Attorney: David Shapiro (not Mueller) Message-ID: <20010725151016.L14917@zork.net> ----- Forwarded message from Stanton McCandlish ----- Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:47:41 -0700 From: Stanton McCandlish At 2:39 PM -0700 on 7/25/01, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: >>> Tonight, Bill and I are launching . Mueller's not the problem. We've learned his involvement is nil; he's been in DC for quite some time, doing political stuff. The acting US Atty for the district, David Shapiro, is the one we're trying to get some traction with. He does appear to've been directly involved, and also appears to have the authority to do something good if given enough reason to do so. While y'all can do as you wish of course, EFF is not holding any of this against Mueller's nomination, since he really apppears to have had no significant involvement, if any at all. -- Stanton McCandlish mech@eff.org http://www.eff.org/~mech Technical Director/Webmaster Electronic Frontier Foundation voice: +1 415 436 9333 x105 fax: +1 415 436 9993 EFF, 454 Shotwell St. San Francisco CA 94110 USA ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From sethf at sethf.com Wed Jul 25 15:13:09 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Web site and 'writing your congressman' (fwd) References: Message-ID: <3B5F4475.3A6B7524@sethf.com> Daniel Orr wrote: > > I am a former aide a U.S. Senator. > ... > Persuading Congress to amend the DMCA is a matter of educating them. Most > members have little idea as to the law's impact. Letters from constituents > are a good way to get them to sit up and take notice. Thanks Daniel. I'm a constituent of Senator Kennedy, and he's on the Judiciary committee. I've been thinking I could write a long letter to him, pulling out all my credentials, and making a liberal oriented argument against the DMCA. Question for you: Does any of that matter? That is, does a pages-long letter count even marginally more than a short one? Is the key aspect the letter itself, and sounding halfway-not-insane (:-)), rather than cites and credentials? Or does it really matter if I puff myself (or would that be negative, since I'm not an ordinary citizen then?) Thanks for some insight here. -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From tabouass at hopper.math.uwaterloo.ca Wed Jul 25 15:16:22 2001 From: tabouass at hopper.math.uwaterloo.ca (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] More on Sat.'s Protest In-Reply-To: <012901c1154b$22e8d7e0$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: Someone may want to consider emailing the Computer Science Societies/Clubs in universities and colleges. Many of them will be happy to pass the message to their members, if not all the students in the department. TAA ----------------------------------------------------- Tony Abou-Assaleh Graduate Student, Department of Computer Science University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, Canada, N2L 3G1 Office: DC2503 Phone: (519) 888-4567 Ext. 3399 Email: taa@acm.org -----------------------[THE END]--------------------- On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, roylo wrote: > from http://www.dibona.com/dmca/index.shtml I have pick out some names in > companies such as > Larry Augustin - CEO and Chairman, VA Linux Systems > Bob Young - Co-Founder and Chairman, Red Hat, Inc. > Art F. Tyde - CEO, Linuxcare > etc.. > > I'm think about asking those people to let me to send an e-mail regrading > the protest on Sat. to everyone in ther company. > 'cause we need to let people outside of this mail list to know about it. > > BTW does anyone have the e-mail address of those ppl.? > > From marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca Wed Jul 25 15:22:39 2001 From: marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca (Austin Hook) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Please no flames for what i'm about to propos e... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Adrian Dunston wrote: > Software cannot be used as a weapon. The idea that it can be used in ways > similar to a rifle are incorrect and harmful to our cause. True, but the US Gov't does define it as so, in their prohibition of export of high strength crypto. It's still on the books, only not enforced. Without that definition, they wouldn't have been able to give Zimmerman and PGP so much grief. Austin Hook From saint_sam at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 15:19:12 2001 From: saint_sam at yahoo.com (Sam Gray) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Portland Message-ID: <20010725221912.81376.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> > Any news outta Portland? Did the event there go off? > > ~Klepht It did! I just got back to my office about 45 minutes ago. There were 9 of us hiking around downtown Portland, carrying signs, mumbling (we *are* geeks, remember?), distributing pamphlets (500 in two hours) and explaining to anyone who was interested. We covered some of the same territory a few times, and a few people made some comments as they saw us again, so I think it sunk in for at least a few people. It wasn't San Jose, but it was definitely still worth doing. (= I'll do a little cleanup and redesign on the materials we used and post them to my website later. Jeme brought a digital camera, so hopefully he'll post something a little later. ===== "They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's some kind of federal program." - George W. Bush, St. Charles, Mo., Nov. 2, 2000 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 15:00:15 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dr. James Billington, Librarian of Congress In-Reply-To: <20010725142408.G16094@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010725220015.46758.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com> i have been looking for a copy of the first recently issued report: "DMCA section 104 report : a report of the Register of Copyrights pursuant to [section] 104 of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act." LCCN: 2001-42373 KF2989.573.A15 2001 if someone has located this (besides the copy in the library of congress) i would appreciate the information. --- Nick Moffitt wrote: > Dr. James Billington is a russophile and the USA's > Librarian of > Librarians. > > Perhaps we should send him letters on the subject. > > http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/11/01/digital.copyright.idg/ > > Billington based his statements on the > recommendations of the > > register of copyrights, who was assigned to > consider a wide range of > > possible adverse impacts of the prohibition. The > Copyright Office's > > primary responsibility was to assess whether > current technologies > > that control access to copyrighted works are > "diminishing the > > ability of individuals to use works in lawful, > non-infringing ways," > > Billington said in the statement. > > > > Robert Dizard Jr., staff director of the Copyright > Office, said the > > register of copyrights found that the access > controls were adversely > > affecting people who wanted to access the two > exempt classes of > > work. The register made the recommendation based > on public comments > > showing problems with these two particular > classes, Dizard said, > > adding that the ruling should not be considered a > defeat or victory > > for any particular group. > > > > "We would not characterize this as a rulemaking to > select winners > > and losers," he said. "Congress indicated in the > statute that the > > record had to clearly support an adverse affect" > in order to obtain > > an exemption. > > http://www.ala.org/washoff/alawon/alwn9085.html > > The Librarian of Congress James Billington has > ruled against the > > American public and library users by negating fair > use in the > > digital arena. Billington allowed only two > exceptions in the fair > > use proceeding involving the 1201 > anticircumvention provision of the > > Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). > > > > A preliminary review of the ruling reveals that > Billington adopted > > recommendations by Marybeth Peters, Register of > Copyrights, to > > provide exemptions only for malfunctions and to > determine which > > sites are blocked by filtering software. The > exemption related to > > circumventing filtering software may be useful > although problematic. > > http://www.uwex.edu/disted/desien/2000/0011/copyright.htm > > LIBRARIANS AND DIGITAL COPYRIGHT - Affirmation of > the Digital > > Millennium Copyright Act by the Library of > Congress, has angered > > librarians. The DMCA, gives owners of copyrighted > digital content > > control over how that content is accessed. There > is particular > > concern about making certain that the precepts of > the "fair use" > > principle are carried over to the digital age. The > Librarian of > > Congress, James Billington, has recently said that > he believes it is > > very important that the fair-use principle be > maintained. He also > > affirmed that the new legislation affects access, > not content use. > > The ruling most severely impacts students, > academics and others > > performing scholarly research by preventing them > from getting around > > technological protection measures when referring > to copyrighted > > material. (InformationWeek Online, 30 Oct 00) > > > > -- > "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer > hooligans are very > slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in > hunting them." --Pravda > 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! > ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually > amaze.) > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 25 15:24:11 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: ? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3323096.996073612@[10.0.1.220]>; from pablos@kadrevis.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 03:06:52PM -0700 References: <3323096.996073612@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <20010725152411.O14917@zork.net> Pablos Kadrevis writes: > This person, and a lot of other people need good introductory information > about the DMCA and the issues. has a steep > learning curve. I need suggestions for links to put on the Boycott Adobe > and Reject Mueller sites. ACM, Samuelson, Gilmore are starting points. You can get DMCA text from the Library of Congress. You can link directly to the Copyright Act http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ and the start of the anticircumvention part of the DMCA, as codified: http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/1201.html Memorize "www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/title/section.html"! Or try http://vitanuova.loyalty.org/~schoen/cite.html (Please don't link to that for Sklyarov stuff; I doubt it's stable enough.) -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From kastlyn at unixtribe.net Wed Jul 25 15:23:20 2001 From: kastlyn at unixtribe.net (Kastlyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Please no flames for what i'm about to propos e... In-Reply-To: <01072514412806.14496@stumpy> Message-ID: Agreed. Bringing the NRA in at this point in time could be detrimental for our cause, since so many people are anti-self defence, and pro-let the government take care if it, but that is an entirely different issue. It's good to have the thought, though. The NRA may prove a useful ally in the future. =} -=Amie=- On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Roger Kramer wrote: > On Wednesday 25 July 2001 14:22, you wrote: > > Software cannot be used as a weapon. The idea that it can be used in ways > > similar to a rifle are incorrect and harmful to our cause. A piece of > > software is not a "digital crowbar," it is a set of written instructions > > (like a recipe) that a computer can implement. Weapons are regulated by > > the US Government. Written instructions should not be. > > > > I prefer the 1st amendment argument, too, but I fear your (unspoken) > definitions of "violence" or "threat" may be *much* too narrow. > > 1) Software certainly can be used as a "digital crowbar", > 2) we wouldn't want the gov to monopolize > such use (loosely similar to the key escrow issue) ,and > 3) I'll wager in the not too distant future such uses will be *necessary* in > self-defense. > > Anyway, knowing this isn't the face we want to put on I'm happy to let this > thread promptly die. The seed is planted should it ever need to grow in the > future. > > roger > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 25 15:26:54 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] More on Sat.'s Protest In-Reply-To: ; from tabouass@hopper.math.uwaterloo.ca on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 06:16:22PM -0400 References: <012901c1154b$22e8d7e0$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: <20010725152654.P14917@zork.net> Tony Abou-Assaleh writes: > Someone may want to consider emailing the Computer Science > Societies/Clubs in universities and colleges. Many of them will be happy > to pass the message to their members, if not all the students in the > department. Also mathematics departments, I'd suggest. A lot of mathematicians are doing research on cryptography. I remember that Berkeley has MUSA, for instance. http://www.math.berkeley.edu/~musa/ I would mention Berkeley CSUA, XCF, and CalLUG, except who do you suppose brought all those signs to San Jose? Getting the word out in higher education is important. Has the _Chronicle of Higher Education_ reported or expressed an interest in reporting on this case? -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe From marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca Wed Jul 25 15:33:17 2001 From: marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca (Austin Hook) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Intellectual Property. In-Reply-To: <3B5F3AD8.C7BD9876@sethf.com> Message-ID: My rights and freedoms are a product of moral, ethical, and philosophical thought. They represent the intellectual property that I want most want to keep secure. The Bill of Rights is my protection. The DMCA is a circumvention device. Austin Hook From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Wed Jul 25 15:31:11 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] More on Sat.'s Protest In-Reply-To: <20010725152654.P14917@zork.net> Message-ID: In general, I have Berkeley covered. (MUSA is probably too weak for anything now though). It may also, by the way, make sense to target law groups and Russian groups. On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Seth David Schoen wrote: > Tony Abou-Assaleh writes: > > Someone may want to consider emailing the Computer Science > > Societies/Clubs in universities and colleges. Many of them will be happy > > to pass the message to their members, if not all the students in the > > department. > > Also mathematics departments, I'd suggest. A lot of mathematicians > are doing research on cryptography. > > I remember that Berkeley has MUSA, for instance. > > http://www.math.berkeley.edu/~musa/ > > I would mention Berkeley CSUA, XCF, and CalLUG, except who do you > suppose brought all those signs to San Jose? > > Getting the word out in higher education is important. Has the > _Chronicle of Higher Education_ reported or expressed an interest > in reporting on this case? > > -- -alexf From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 15:37:51 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why is printing illegal? In-Reply-To: <3B5F372F.7685F30B@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20010725223751.31454.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> there is allot of behavior captured by a strict application of the overbroad DMCA - the proponents response to this capture problem is a court wouldn't "really" enforce that? (which is also one of the reasons why it will eventually be struck down.) the trouble with this proponent's logic is that people should not be required to regulate their behavior based on the generosity of a court or vague amorphous terminology. if enforced un --- mickey wrote: > From: > http://biz.yahoo.com/bizwk/010725/u2uwdgj7_smmdbiz41ntqa.html > > "Company engineers allege that, as advertised, AEBPR > would allow users > to convert protected eBook files to > so-called ``naked'' files. These files, alleged > Nathanson, could be > easily printed or distributed via e-mail. Either act > would be in > violation of copyright provisions established by > companies selling > eBooks encrypted by Adobe's software." > > This is yet another problem with the DMCA. It > appears to allow > "provisions established by companies" in addition to > the rights granted > by copyright law. As someone said earlier, the DMCA > is a "plug-in" to > the law. > > mickeym > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From jono at microshaft.org Wed Jul 25 15:38:42 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:13 2005 Subject: Anti-DMCA Talking Points (WasRe: [free-sklyarov] He's free.... )] Message-ID: <20010725153842.I16102@networkcommand.com> Some recommendations: ----- Forwarded message from "J.E. Cripps" ----- X-Authentication-Warning: bsd1.nyct.net: cycmn owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 18:00:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "J.E. Cripps" Subject: Anti-DMCA Talking Points (WasRe: [free-sklyarov] He's free.... ) The list doesn't recognize me as a poster, can't get an answer... can't imagine why not :-) An outline of positions, at the NYC rally the anti-library and educational implications got a lot of ppl involved. 1. The DMCA will allow businesses in the business of distributing content (info., art. music) created by others to replace ownership with rental (of books, CD, etc.) and eliminate current fair use. There's a bunch of stories archived at Slashdot on this. 2. The DMCA has already been used to blatantly stifle long-established First Amendment Rights, do a Web Search on Edward Felten. There's a bit at Salon (ok, ok) and lots at EFF, this is absolutely a bedrock First Amendment issue. 3. Major universities are already willing to use the full force of the DMCA to prevent the free access to information to the public in education, planning to force rental of all textbooks and learning material under a yearly license. See http://www.nyfairuse.org for more on this. Copying to backup, printing to underline will be prohibited by the anti-circumvention provisions of the DMCA. I had a paragraph about Napster, but am deleting it, its would confuse ppl. ----- End forwarded message ----- From dante333 at gci.net Wed Jul 25 15:41:36 2001 From: dante333 at gci.net (Jacob Gemmell) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] broaden the movement In-Reply-To: <200107251513070130.058F443C@64.51.184.34> References: <996089980.27500.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200107251513070130.058F443C@64.51.184.34> Message-ID: <996100901.27794.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> And being "controlled" doesn't? Telling a person ther eBook is crippled, and they will say "but I can still read it, what's the problem?". Tell them that it is controlled and they will say "What the fsck did I pay for?". I think that it is important to put this arguement in terms of what the person owns and what they can do with it. If you want a good real world anaolgy to give people, You can buy the book in the bookstore and you can read the book in the bookstore. You just can't take the book with you when you go. On 25 Jul 2001 15:13:07 -0500, Randy Rathbun wrote: > The problem with "copy controlled media" is that it does not have a > negative enough sound to it. A lesson can be learned from the abortion > sides - one side calls themselves "pro life" but the other side refers to > them as "anti choice". Talking about your enemy as "anti anything" sticks > with most people, much like the word "communist". > > The word "crippled" has much more of a punch to it. It is a word that > scares a lot of people. > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 7/25/01 at 11:39 AM Jacob Gemmell wrote: > > >I've always prefered the term "Copy Controlled Media". It says excactly > >what they are trying to do. > > > > ----- > If Bill Gates had a nickle for every time Windows crashed.... > Oh, wait, he does! > - posting on slashdot.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 25 15:42:50 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Shapiro Message-ID: <20010725154250.R14917@zork.net> I am convinced by the EFF's research that Shapiro has much more direct influence in this case than does Mueller, who probably never heard of it until people started writing him letters. I personally believe that it is worthwhile to try to get Mueller's attention -- with letters, phone calls, FAXes -- but I agree that keeping the pressure on in San Francisco, where Shapiro works, may be most practical. There is another organizing meeting tonight in San Francisco and some of us will be discussing possible strategies for protests and media coverage. I would personally advise that already-scheduled protests with support behind them should go ahead. However, people scheduling new events may want to use this list to co-ordinate with others. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca Wed Jul 25 15:50:48 2001 From: marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca (Austin Hook) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Is the Open Source movement at risk from the DMCA? In-Reply-To: <01072514212405.14496@stumpy> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Roger Kramer wrote: > 1st another disclaimer: IANAL. > From what I can divine from the legalese, the law explicitly ALLOWS reverse > engineering for the purpose of "achiev[ing] interoperability of an > independently created computer program." At least one of the authors of this > thing had at least one clue. > > Still I think this is a great line of reasoning that ought to be pursued in > spite of this exemption. How about for making making an inter-operable eBook reader? Austin Hook From jono at microshaft.org Wed Jul 25 15:48:17 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dr. James Billington, Librarian of Congress In-Reply-To: <20010725220015.46758.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com>; from sisgeek@yahoo.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 03:00:15PM -0700 References: <20010725142408.G16094@zork.net> <20010725220015.46758.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010725154817.K16102@networkcommand.com> It's linked right at the bottom of this pages along with other good stuff: http://www.anti-dmca.org/docs.html On 25-Jul-2001, alfee cube wrote: > i have been looking for a copy of the first recently > issued report: > > "DMCA section 104 report : a report of the Register of > Copyrights pursuant to [section] 104 of the Digital > Millennium Copyright Act." > > LCCN: 2001-42373 > KF2989.573.A15 2001 > > if someone has located this (besides the copy in the > library of congress) i would appreciate the > information. > > > --- Nick Moffitt wrote: > > Dr. James Billington is a russophile and the USA's > > Librarian of > > Librarians. > > > > Perhaps we should send him letters on the subject. > > > > > http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/11/01/digital.copyright.idg/ > > > Billington based his statements on the > > recommendations of the > > > register of copyrights, who was assigned to > > consider a wide range of > > > possible adverse impacts of the prohibition. The > > Copyright Office's > > > primary responsibility was to assess whether > > current technologies > > > that control access to copyrighted works are > > "diminishing the > > > ability of individuals to use works in lawful, > > non-infringing ways," > > > Billington said in the statement. > > > > > > Robert Dizard Jr., staff director of the Copyright > > Office, said the > > > register of copyrights found that the access > > controls were adversely > > > affecting people who wanted to access the two > > exempt classes of > > > work. The register made the recommendation based > > on public comments > > > showing problems with these two particular > > classes, Dizard said, > > > adding that the ruling should not be considered a > > defeat or victory > > > for any particular group. > > > > > > "We would not characterize this as a rulemaking to > > select winners > > > and losers," he said. "Congress indicated in the > > statute that the > > > record had to clearly support an adverse affect" > > in order to obtain > > > an exemption. > > > > http://www.ala.org/washoff/alawon/alwn9085.html > > > The Librarian of Congress James Billington has > > ruled against the > > > American public and library users by negating fair > > use in the > > > digital arena. Billington allowed only two > > exceptions in the fair > > > use proceeding involving the 1201 > > anticircumvention provision of the > > > Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). > > > > > > A preliminary review of the ruling reveals that > > Billington adopted > > > recommendations by Marybeth Peters, Register of > > Copyrights, to > > > provide exemptions only for malfunctions and to > > determine which > > > sites are blocked by filtering software. The > > exemption related to > > > circumventing filtering software may be useful > > although problematic. > > > > > http://www.uwex.edu/disted/desien/2000/0011/copyright.htm > > > LIBRARIANS AND DIGITAL COPYRIGHT - Affirmation of > > the Digital > > > Millennium Copyright Act by the Library of > > Congress, has angered > > > librarians. The DMCA, gives owners of copyrighted > > digital content > > > control over how that content is accessed. There > > is particular > > > concern about making certain that the precepts of > > the "fair use" > > > principle are carried over to the digital age. The > > Librarian of > > > Congress, James Billington, has recently said that > > he believes it is > > > very important that the fair-use principle be > > maintained. He also > > > affirmed that the new legislation affects access, > > not content use. > > > The ruling most severely impacts students, > > academics and others > > > performing scholarly research by preventing them > > from getting around > > > technological protection measures when referring > > to copyrighted > > > material. (InformationWeek Online, 30 Oct 00) > > > > > > > > -- > > "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer > > hooligans are very > > slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in > > hunting them." --Pravda > > 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! > > ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually > > amaze.) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 25 15:49:37 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Is the Open Source movement at risk from the DMCA? In-Reply-To: <20010725134141.B15650@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 01:41:41PM -0700 References: <996089980.27500.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200107251513070130.058F443C@64.51.184.34> <20010725134141.B15650@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010725154937.S14917@zork.net> Jon O . writes: > Is the Open Source movement at risk from the DMCA? > > Microsoft Word contains a proprietary file format. Open > Source developers often work to reverse engineer this > format in order to create compatible products. Star > Office is a Word alternative and can read these word > documents. Is it only a matter of time before MS says > you are circumventing a protection? > > Anyone care to comment? You want to look at _Universal City Studios v. Shawn Reimerdes et al._. The EFF is representing the remaining defendants in that case, which has been appealed to the Second Circuit. Most case documents are available at Cryptome or the EFF's web site. Also, Professor Touretzky's "Gallery of CSS Descramblers": http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/ There are endless commentaries on the Internet about the risks to open source DVD players. -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe From drumz at best.com Wed Jul 25 15:48:40 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... In-Reply-To: from Alex Fabrikant at "Jul 25, 1 11:42:31 am" Message-ID: <200107252248.PAA03405@shell3.ba.best.com> > Bill of Rights? Oh this thing?: > > http://nc.flyingbuttmonkeys.com/~ehintz/dmitry_pix/sign3.jpg I've been planning for a couple months now to design a similar graphic with the full text of the BoR plus "void" stamp, have it printed as a 6'x10' vinyl banner, and hang it on the side of the U-Haul I'm taking to Burning Man. ;) Ethan From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 15:49:26 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: ? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20010725152411.O14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010725224926.47921.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com> The Privatization of Information Policy Ethics and Information Technology 2, no. 4 (2001): 201-209 (9 pages) --- Seth David Schoen wrote: > Pablos Kadrevis writes: > > > This person, and a lot of other people need good > introductory information > > about the DMCA and the issues. > has a steep > > learning curve. I need suggestions for links to > put on the Boycott Adobe > > and Reject Mueller sites. > > ACM, Samuelson, Gilmore are starting points. You > can get DMCA text > from the Library of Congress. > > You can link directly to the Copyright Act > > http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ > > and the start of the anticircumvention part of the > DMCA, as codified: > > http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/1201.html > > Memorize > "www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/title/section.html"! > Or try > > http://vitanuova.loyalty.org/~schoen/cite.html > > (Please don't link to that for Sklyarov stuff; I > doubt it's stable > enough.) > > -- > Seth David Schoen | Its really > terrible when FBI arrested > Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who > visited USA with peacefull > down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- > to share his knowledge with > http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american > nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 15:51:09 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: ? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20010725152411.O14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010725225109.25720.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> ISP liability: RemarQable. Eugene R. Sullivan II. Copyright World, May 2001 i110 p7-8. --- Seth David Schoen wrote: > Pablos Kadrevis writes: > > > This person, and a lot of other people need good > introductory information > > about the DMCA and the issues. > has a steep > > learning curve. I need suggestions for links to > put on the Boycott Adobe > > and Reject Mueller sites. > > ACM, Samuelson, Gilmore are starting points. You > can get DMCA text > from the Library of Congress. > > You can link directly to the Copyright Act > > http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ > > and the start of the anticircumvention part of the > DMCA, as codified: > > http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/1201.html > > Memorize > "www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/title/section.html"! > Or try > > http://vitanuova.loyalty.org/~schoen/cite.html > > (Please don't link to that for Sklyarov stuff; I > doubt it's stable > enough.) > > -- > Seth David Schoen | Its really > terrible when FBI arrested > Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who > visited USA with peacefull > down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- > to share his knowledge with > http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american > nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sethf at sethf.com Wed Jul 25 15:54:19 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dr. James Billington, Librarian of Congress References: <20010725220015.46758.qmail@web13905.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B5F4E1B.81E3A934@sethf.com> alfee cube wrote: > i have been looking for a copy of the first recently > issued report: > > "DMCA section 104 report : a report of the Register of > Copyrights pursuant to [section] 104 of the Digital > Millennium Copyright Act." > > LCCN: 2001-42373 > KF2989.573.A15 2001 > > if someone has located this (besides the copy in the > library of congress) i would appreciate the > information. This may not be exactly what you are looking for, but the contact information within should be a good pointer: Report to Congress: Study Examining 17 U.S.C. Sections 109 and 117 Pursuant to Section 104 of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/occ/dmca2001/cover.htm Joint Study Required by Section 104 of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act http://www.loc.gov/copyright/reports/studies/dmca/dmca_study.html -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From roylo at sr2c.com Wed Jul 25 15:53:01 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] More on Sat.'s Protest References: Message-ID: <005601c1155c$8e9839c0$0200a8c0@jwin> Great, So, I guess we will depend on you (Alex) on Sat. to bring the UCB students here. Do you have the address yet? If not here is it: 280 South First St., Rm. 371, San Jose 95113 Thanks again!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Fabrikant" To: "Seth David Schoen" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 3:31 PM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] More on Sat.'s Protest > In general, I have Berkeley covered. (MUSA is probably too weak for > anything now though). > > It may also, by the way, make sense to target law groups and Russian > groups. > > On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Seth David Schoen wrote: > > Tony Abou-Assaleh writes: > > > Someone may want to consider emailing the Computer Science > > > Societies/Clubs in universities and colleges. Many of them will be happy > > > to pass the message to their members, if not all the students in the > > > department. > > > > Also mathematics departments, I'd suggest. A lot of mathematicians > > are doing research on cryptography. > > > > I remember that Berkeley has MUSA, for instance. > > > > http://www.math.berkeley.edu/~musa/ > > > > I would mention Berkeley CSUA, XCF, and CalLUG, except who do you > > suppose brought all those signs to San Jose? > > > > Getting the word out in higher education is important. Has the > > _Chronicle of Higher Education_ reported or expressed an interest > > in reporting on this case? > > > > > > -- > -alexf > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Wed Jul 25 15:53:49 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe side of EFF/Adobe negotiations. Message-ID: <011a01c1155c$af7a0ab0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, All! ? ????????? ????????? EFF ? ??????????? ? Adobe ????? ?? ????? ??????????. ???? ??????????? ?????????? ? ?????? ??????? -- ??, ??? Adobe ????????? ?????????? ? ??????????? ??????????. ????????, ??? ??? ????????? ???? ????????? ?? ???? ??????? ????????? Adobe. ???? ??????? ?? ?? ???????, ? Adobe ?? ?????????????? ????????? ????? ????? ???????, ? ???? ???? ????? ???????????? ? ????????? ???? "?????". ??????? ????????, ?????????? ?? ????? ? ?? ????. ? ?????? ?? ???????? ? ?????, ?? ??????? ??????????, ?????? -- ??? ?? ?? ?????, ??? ??? ??????? ??????????? ??????? ???? ???????????? ???????? ???? ????? ????????????, ??? ?????????? DMCA ???????? ????????? ??? ?????. ?????? ???. - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ ---- Monday, Adobe met with officials from the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) to better understand their concerns and explore ways to resolve the issues surrounding the arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov while preserving Adobe and its customers' copyrights. This meeting covered concerns about this case, and while we strongly support the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) and the enforcement of copyright protection of digital content, prosecuting Mr. Sklyarov in this particular case is not conducive to the best interests of any of the parties involved or the industry. It has always been Adobe's goal to have ElcomSoft stop selling the Advanced eBook Processor software, and this has happened. As a result of our meeting today, Adobe and the EFF issued a joint press release recommending the release of Dmitry Sklyarov from federal custody. Adobe is also withdrawing its support for the criminal complaint against Mr. Sklyarov. The press release is attached for your reference. The criminal complaint against Mr. Sklyarov has been, and continues to be, in the hands of the US Attorney's office and it is up to them as to how they choose to proceed. While we are not interested in supporting the prosecution of this case, Adobe will continue to protect its copyright interests and those of its customers. Security is an ongoing effort at Adobe and the company is committed to strengthening the security of its products. Regarding the Acrobat eBook Reader, the company continues to make changes to the encryption scheme of the current version the software. Adobe will continue its Web surveillance of compromised eBooks in Adobe PDF. Reports continue show no compromised eBooks on FTP, web sites or popular peer-to-peer networks. In conclusion, Adobe extends its gratitude for your patience and support. Adobe strongly believes in copyright protection for digital content and will continue to support technology standards bodies, government agencies and publishing industry associations in enforcing copyright protection on the Internet. We also look forward to continuing the good work of the digital rights management standards group in the OeBF (Open eBook Forum) on eBook security and encryption issues. --- From ausage at ausage.com Wed Jul 25 15:52:31 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Arguments from consumer rights pov In-Reply-To: <003001c11540$8de77110$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> References: <020601c11523$b75627c0$3088d790@tti.com> <01072513342600.01654@frankie> <003001c11540$8de77110$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> Message-ID: <01072518284804.01654@frankie> On July 25, 2001 03:32 pm, Kevin wrote: > No, that isn't true. In fact the US Copyright Office originally refused to > issue copyrights even for font software but later reversed their position. > You can read more about it at: > http://www.typeright.org/feature4.html also see Eltra Corp. v. Ringer I stand corrected. Fonts are coyrighted in Canada, England and other countries but not in the US. From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Wed Jul 25 15:59:19 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] broaden the movement References: <996089980.27500.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200107251513070130.058F443C@64.51.184.34> Message-ID: <3B5F4F47.81E1EA16@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> I love both terms, copy-controlled and crippled. One's more objective in tone and therefore gets a message across that's both authoritative, and practically insightful. The other's powerful in conveying the quality of the bill of goods that's being sold. Seth Johnson From roylo at sr2c.com Wed Jul 25 16:01:08 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. morning in San Jose Message-ID: <007401c1155d$b0b0c080$0200a8c0@jwin> Mr. Chris DiBona We are going to hold a protest on Sat. on this week in San Jose for "Free Speech, Free Sklyarov ", And is it possible for you to give us the contact e-mail address for people like Larry Augustin - CEO and Chairman, VA Linux Systems Bob Young - Co-Founder and Chairman, Red Hat, Inc. Art F. Tyde - CEO, Linuxcare etc.. whom has signed your community declaration? We would like ask them to send out a message ontheir internal mailing lists, regrading the protest on Sat. to everyone in ther company. That way we might be able to get the information about the Protest quicker. thank you every much . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010725/c16221cf/attachment.htm From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 16:04:11 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Web site and 'writing your congressman' (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3B5F4475.3A6B7524@sethf.com> Message-ID: <20010725230411.25026.qmail@web13903.mail.yahoo.com> much information about how your representative understands (or at least what they are told) can be gleaned from: "section by section analysis of H.R. 2281 as passed by the house of representatives on aug. 4, 1998" i have not yet been able to get this in digital format. i have a copy but it is to poor to scan. if someone finds a digital copy the list could benefit by learning what the legislators have been told. --- Seth Finkelstein wrote: > Daniel Orr wrote: > > > > I am a former aide a U.S. Senator. > > ... > > Persuading Congress to amend the DMCA is a matter > of educating them. Most > > members have little idea as to the law's impact. > Letters from constituents > > are a good way to get them to sit up and take > notice. > > Thanks Daniel. I'm a constituent of Senator > Kennedy, and he's > on the Judiciary committee. I've been thinking I > could write a long > letter to him, pulling out all my credentials, and > making a liberal > oriented argument against the DMCA. Question for > you: Does any of > that matter? That is, does a pages-long letter count > even > marginally more than a short one? Is the key aspect > the letter > itself, and sounding halfway-not-insane (:-)), > rather than cites > and credentials? Or does it really matter if I puff > myself > (or would that be negative, since I'm not an > ordinary citizen then?) > Thanks for some insight here. > > -- > Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer > sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com > http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From drumz at best.com Wed Jul 25 16:09:51 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: He's free.... In-Reply-To: <20010725202223.95265.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> from alfee cube at "Jul 25, 1 01:22:23 pm" Message-ID: <200107252309.QAA12246@shell3.ba.best.com> > what a great paragraph! > > --- Jimmy Alderson wrote: > > "That ideas should spread from one to another over > > the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of > > man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have > > been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, > > when she made them , like fire, expansible over all > > space, without lessening their density at any point, > > and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have > > our physical being, incapable of confinement or > > exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in > > nature, be a subject of property." -Thomas > > Jefferson Jefferson channeling Hemingway. Cool. Jefferson is da man. I can still read his words and feel how much he feared the kind of government we have today, and how violently he would have opposed it. I've referred to myself as a libertarian, Libertarian, or independent, but usually these days I just call myself a Jeffersonian. Some of my other favorites: "Reading, reflection and time have convinced me that the interests of society require the observation of those moral precepts only in which all religions agree (for all forbid us to murder, steal, plunder, or bear false witness), and that we should not intermeddle with the particular dogmas in which all religions differ, and which are totally unconnected with morality." "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." "A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another; shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement." "A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both, and deserve neither." "If we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion by education." "Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day." "A little rebellion now and then...is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government." "The most important bill in our whole code is that for the diffusion of knowledge among the people. No other sure foundation can be devised, for the preservation of freedom and happiness." Ethan From cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu Wed Jul 25 16:10:30 2001 From: cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] BOSTON JULY 30 Message-ID: Boston will be having an action at NOON on MONDAY JULY 30 in support of Dmitry Sklyarov. As long as Dmitry is in jail, we will continue our protests. Our focus on Monday will be on Robert Mueller, Bush's pick for FBI head and the current U.S. attorney for the district in which Sklyarov is being prosecuted. He will be facing senate confirmation hearings that day before our Senator Kennedy; we hope to put pressure on him at this sensitive time. The acting U.S. attorney (David Shapiro) under Mueller is a better target for the West Coast (he's closer to the action), but Mueller (via Kennedy) is our best East Coast target of opportunity. More information can be found at http://lm.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian/sklyarov (which will appear on http://freesklyarov.org/boston later tonight) --s Noriega arrangements Sugar Grove NSA EZLN AK-47 PLO SDI Washington quiche shotgun [Hello to all my fans in domestic surveillance] non-violent protest ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian ) -- "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970, minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4. -- [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/] #!/usr/bin/perl -w # 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz # MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout # arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order $_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5; $_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d= unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d >>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9 ,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t ^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271)) [$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Wed Jul 25 16:13:25 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] broaden the movement In-Reply-To: <996100901.27794.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On 25 Jul 2001, Jacob Gemmell wrote: > And being "controlled" doesn't? Telling a person ther eBook is > crippled, and they will say "but I can still read it, what's the > problem?". If I may make a suggestion: "Copy control" is an incomplete and inaccurate term, because copying is just one aspect controlled by DRM systems. A much better and effective term would be "usage control." The term "copy control" is advantageous to copyright owners, by limiting the debate to piracy and only some examples of fair use. Many really good examples of fair use don't involve a desire to make a copy at all: simply wanting to watch a DVD that you bought, or simply wanting to read an eBook, but being prevented by overly paranoid security. > Tell them that it is controlled and they will say "What the > fsck did I pay for?". I think that it is important to put this > arguement in terms of what the person owns and what they can do with it. That's another difference between "copy control" and "usage control." The latter sounds more like someone controlling people, rather than things. -S From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 25 16:13:26 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF to Meet Friday July 27 with US Attorney's Office In-Reply-To: <20010725142208.B3303@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725130410.03366438@pop3.norton.antivirus> <20010725142208.B3303@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <87ofq87gbt.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "mc" == mike castleman writes: mc> Frankly, I'm getting sick of these top-down decisions from the mc> EFF and I'm wondering when the EFF is going to learn. Well, I'm not in on the strategy seshes at EFF, but it seems to me that they're playing a very touchy game here. So far, it's worked out pretty well. I was pretty peeved about the announcement last Friday, considering that we had a world-wide tidal wave of protest poised for the 23rd. But it was this particular tactic that put EFF negotiators inside Adobe on Monday and got us our first big win. If it hadn't happened, we would probably be struggling just to get face time with Adobe at this very minute. It was a risky move, but it paid off immensely. The 1-2 punch -- EFF on the inside, wackos on the outside -- is working. We can probably keep it up. I support the EFF in saying whatever they need to say to get a foot in the door. The current announcement, at least from where I'm standing, is no biggie. I don't think anyone's even _got_ a protest scheduled between now and Friday, and it'd be hard to make one go off before then, anyways. I suggest that we start planning events for next week -- perhaps another coordinated action would be nice -- and hope to see some advances on Friday that will obviate the need for more protests. Just remember: we're working together here. We need to keep our eyes on the prize, and take whatever announcements that come out of the EFF with a grain of salt. If they're helping to get Dmitry free, well, hell, lettem promise the moon. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From dorr at asc.upenn.edu Wed Jul 25 15:36:08 2001 From: dorr at asc.upenn.edu (Daniel Orr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Web site and 'writing your congressman' ( fwd) Message-ID: I feel privileged to get email from you, as I am a long time admirer of your work. Congrats on a well deserved EFF Pioneer Award. I'd keep the letter to about two pages, any longer and they're going to stop reading. As Kennedy is on the Judiciary Committee, I would recommend calling his DC office and asking "Who is the legislative aide who handles Judiciary Issues?" Address one letter directly to the LA by name. Send a second letter (it can even be the same letter) addressed to the Senator. Credentials will help particularly in the letter addressed to the LA. Keep in mind though, a staff of forty of so has to cover every imaginable issue that comes up from encryption policy to dairy subsidies. The DMCA is a very important issue, but it is still a niche issue. Congressional staff are overworked and poorly paid, this results in high turnover and aides who don't necessarily understand the issues they are assigned to as well as they should. Don't be offended if your credentials don't mean as much to them as they do to the members of this list. The second letter will be received by the mail director who will assign it to the Legislative Correspondent who responds to letters on related issues. You may get a form letter back, it may be a more detailed response. It depends on how familiar the office is with the DMCA. The two letters are important because one will be read by the LA who advises the Senator directly on the issue and may choose to write a personal response. The second will go in the office's correspondence management database and will be included in tallies of future letters on that issue. So when Sen. Kennedy asks his staff "What have we been getting a lot of mail on?" the legislative correspondent can respond "the DMCA" and cite your letter. Hope this is helpful. Dan > -----Original Message----- > From: Seth Finkelstein [mailto:sethf@sethf.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 6:13 PM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Cc: Daniel Orr > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] The Web site and 'writing your > congressman' > (fwd) > > > Daniel Orr wrote: > > > > I am a former aide a U.S. Senator. > > ... > > Persuading Congress to amend the DMCA is a matter of > educating them. Most > > members have little idea as to the law's impact. Letters > from constituents > > are a good way to get them to sit up and take notice. > > Thanks Daniel. I'm a constituent of Senator Kennedy, and he's > on the Judiciary committee. I've been thinking I could write a long > letter to him, pulling out all my credentials, and making a liberal > oriented argument against the DMCA. Question for you: Does any of > that matter? That is, does a pages-long letter count even > marginally more than a short one? Is the key aspect the letter > itself, and sounding halfway-not-insane (:-)), rather than cites > and credentials? Or does it really matter if I puff myself > (or would that be negative, since I'm not an ordinary citizen then?) > Thanks for some insight here. > > -- > Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Wed Jul 25 16:05:12 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit References: <3B5F40BC.90408@kalifornia.com> Message-ID: <3B5F50A8.9742DD66@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> So would I. Even up it to $40 as a gesture to encourage participation. And I'm not rich. Measly temp worker. The money's there as soon as this idea moves. Ben Ford wrote: > > I'd donate $20 to that. From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 25 16:22:12 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Show of Solidarity Message-ID: <87g0bk7fx7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> It might be a bit of a coup and a show of solidarity for sites like freesklyarov.org or RejectMueller.com and others to put up a "No Protests Until After Meeting" notice. Something like, "We won't be having any protests until after Friday's meeting between the EFF and the US Attorney. We look forward to favorable outcomes." Costs nothing, and it gives our friendly EFF negotiators a boost. Why not? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From vadim at xcf.berkeley.edu Wed Jul 25 16:22:50 2001 From: vadim at xcf.berkeley.edu (Vadim Kogan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] free-sklyarov-sfba Message-ID: <20010725162250.K32630@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> I've set up a new mailing list for Bay Area (San Francisco, San Jose, general Bay Area) for discussion/planning purposes. This let people who are interested in local events avoid the large traffic of the original list. The list is unmoderated though. See https://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-sfba for more info. Note that you have the option to subscribe in Digest mode. Also, I'd like to remind people that there is also a moderated free-sklyarov-announce list for ones who only want to see the announcements, not the general discussion. More information is available at https://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-announce. Seth, could you please put info at least about the announce list on the subscribe page of the free-sklyarov mailing list. Vadim. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010725/0d2cd0cd/attachment.pgp From sethf at sethf.com Wed Jul 25 16:27:16 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Web site and 'writing your congressman' (fwd) References: <20010725230411.25026.qmail@web13903.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B5F55D4.44A8B5D1@sethf.com> alfee cube wrote: > much information about how your representative > understands (or at least what they are told) can be > gleaned from: > > "section by section analysis of H.R. 2281 as passed by > the house of representatives on aug. 4, 1998" > > i have not yet been able to get this in digital > format. i have a copy but it is to poor to scan. > > if someone finds a digital copy the list could benefit > by learning what the legislators have been told. Try the material at: http://eon.law.harvard.edu/openlaw/DVD/dmca/ -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From mlc67 at columbia.edu Wed Jul 25 16:21:46 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF to Meet Friday July 27 with US Attorney's Office In-Reply-To: ; from izel@sulam.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 05:40:26PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010725162146.F3303@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 05:40:26PM -0400, Izel Sulam wrote: > When the EFF tells me "We respectfully request that protests be postponed." > I hear "We respectfully request that protests be postponed, nudge, nudge, > wink, wink." Well, if everyone else read this, then I'll have to assume that's what they meant. Still, in the future, it'd be clearer if they were to write "The EFF will not be participating in any protests" or "The EFF is not calling for any protests" or somesuch. > With that said, EVERYONE knows that EFF has no power to stop independent > parties to protest whenever they want, against whatever cause they > want. For better or worse, that's not strictly true. One or two cities (and possibly an uncertain number of individuals) decided not to protest on Monday out of respect for what they perceived to be the EFF's wishes. Being vague while still getting your point across is a tricky business, and it's not certian that the EFF has fully mastered it yet, although they're making progress. > So there you have it. EFF is involved in official negotiations, and they > cannot associate themselves, officially or unofficially, with any protests > that may simultaneously happen on the same day at the same location. I'm not certain that it's always true that the same individuals can't be involved in both negotiations and protests. Sometimes, negotiations can be more productive if the protestees (is that a word?) feel they are negotiating with someone that can speak directly for the people yelling outside. I personally have attended protests of a committee that I served on, and can honestly report that being able to more-or-less speak for a group that everyone knew was very vocal strengthened my position for the committee's deliberations. mike -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // cell: +1 (646) 382-7220 // "facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - aldous huxley -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010725/21625259/attachment.pgp From ilya at theIlya.com Wed Jul 25 16:25:00 2001 From: ilya at theIlya.com (Ilya Volynets) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe side of EFF/Adobe negotiations. In-Reply-To: <011a01c1155c$af7a0ab0$0100a8c0@sharhan> References: <011a01c1155c$af7a0ab0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: <01072516250001.09996@gateway> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Are any of those who do not speak any english on this list? For those who do not speak any russian, my namesake gave very brief (and emotional :-) describtion for non-English speakers of Adobe's press release On Wednesday 25 July 2001 15:53, Ilya V. Vasilyev wrote: > Hi, All! > > ? ????????? ????????? EFF ? ??????????? ? Adobe ????? ?? ????? ??????????. > ???? ??????????? ?????????? ? ?????? ??????? -- ??, ??? Adobe ????????? > ?????????? ? ??????????? ??????????. ????????, ??? ??? ????????? ???? > ????????? ?? ???? ??????? ????????? Adobe. > > ???? ??????? ?? ?? ???????, ? Adobe ?? ?????????????? ????????? ????? ????? > ???????, ? ???? ???? ????? ???????????? ? ????????? ???? "?????". ??????? > ????????, ?????????? ?? ????? ? ?? ????. > > ? ?????? ?? ???????? ? ?????, ?? ??????? ??????????, ?????? -- ??? ?? ?? > ?????, ??? ??? ??????? ??????????? ??????? ???? ???????????? ???????? ???? > ????? ????????????, ??? ?????????? DMCA ???????? ????????? ??? ?????. > ?????? ???. > > - - - > Ilya V. Vasilyev > Civil Hackers' School > Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 > http://server23.net/user/ath/ > > ---- > > Monday, Adobe met with officials from the Electronic Frontier Foundation > > (EFF) to better understand their concerns and explore ways to resolve > the > issues surrounding the arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov while preserving Adobe > and > its customers' copyrights. This meeting covered concerns about this > case, > and while we strongly support the Digital Millennium Copyright Act > (DMCA) > and the enforcement of copyright protection of digital content, > prosecuting Mr. Sklyarov in this particular case is not conducive to the > best interests > of any of the parties involved or the industry. It has always been > Adobe's > goal to have ElcomSoft stop selling the Advanced eBook Processor > software, > and this has happened. > > As a result of our meeting today, Adobe and the EFF issued a joint press > > release recommending the release of Dmitry Sklyarov from federal > custody. > Adobe is also withdrawing its support for the criminal complaint against > > Mr. Sklyarov. The press release is attached for your reference. > > The criminal complaint against Mr. Sklyarov has been, and continues to > be, > in the hands of the US Attorney's office and it is up to them as to how > they choose to proceed. While we are not interested in supporting the > prosecution of this case, Adobe will continue to protect its copyright > interests and those of its customers. > > Security is an ongoing effort at Adobe and the company is committed to > strengthening the security of its products. Regarding the Acrobat eBook > Reader, the company continues to make changes to the encryption scheme > of > the current version the software. Adobe will continue its Web > surveillance > of compromised eBooks in Adobe PDF. Reports continue show no compromised > > eBooks on FTP, web sites or popular peer-to-peer networks. > > In conclusion, Adobe extends its gratitude for your patience and > support. > Adobe strongly believes in copyright protection for digital content and > will continue to support technology standards bodies, government > agencies > and publishing industry associations in enforcing copyright protection > on > the Internet. We also look forward to continuing the good work of the > digital rights management standards group in the OeBF (Open eBook Forum) > on > eBook > security and encryption issues. > > --- > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtfVU8ACgkQtKh84cA8u2l6FgCgxEXkxLECU1AY+GuGeUluKeIk xGsAnj65ACtahqToRGTxu8EfyuUMHyMX =816V -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nbhs2 at i-2000.com Wed Jul 25 16:30:01 2001 From: nbhs2 at i-2000.com (Michael Scottaline) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fw: Report to Sender Message-ID: <20010725193001.32dcf1ef.nbhs2@i-2000.com> Interesting, huh????? Mike ========================= Begin forwarded message: Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 18:30:46 -0400 From: TORNOTESSMTP/FRI%FRISMTP@fricorporation.com To: Michael Scottaline Subject: Report to Sender Incident Information:- Database: d:/Lotus/Domino/Data/mail1.box Originator: Michael Scottaline Recipients: users@lists.caldera.com Subject: Re: Petition -- DMCA Date/Time: 07/25/2001 06:30:37 PM Message sent to users@lists.caldera.com was quarantined because it contained banned content. -- "One can search the brain with a microscope and not find the mind, and can search the stars with a telescope and not find God." -- J. Gustav White From rabbi at quickie.net Wed Jul 25 16:28:59 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Show of Solidarity In-Reply-To: <87g0bk7fx7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: I am in agreement with this. I am not for cancellation of any protests, but please don't plan any new ones before friday's meeting. That way, we'll know exactly what we should be protesting. On 25 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > It might be a bit of a coup and a show of solidarity for sites like > freesklyarov.org or RejectMueller.com and others to put up a "No > Protests Until After Meeting" notice. > > Something like, "We won't be having any protests until after Friday's > meeting between the EFF and the US Attorney. We look forward to > favorable outcomes." > > Costs nothing, and it gives our friendly EFF negotiators a boost. Why > not? > > ~Klepht > > -- > klepht@eleutheria.org > http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From snair at utstar.com Wed Jul 25 16:32:03 2001 From: snair at utstar.com (Sreeni R. Nair) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit In-Reply-To: <3B5F50A8.9742DD66@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> References: <3B5F40BC.90408@kalifornia.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010725193059.037affe8@mail.utstar.com> At 07:05 PM 7/25/2001 -0400, Seth Johnson wrote: >So would I. Even up it to $40 as a gesture to encourage participation. > Not rich either, but I am good for $50. The ordinary man acts because he thinks his act will be profitable; the superior man, however, acts because he thinks his act is right. -- Confucius From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Wed Jul 25 16:30:40 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:16 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] translation of [Adobe side of EFF/Adobe negotiations] In-Reply-To: <011a01c1155c$af7a0ab0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: Translation of Ilya's message into English (for the benefit of non-Russian-speakers of course) follows: "Hi, All! "I've been translating the release from EFF about the negotiations with Adobe immediately after publication. Below is a description of the results from the other side -- the way Adobe describes the negotiations and the results achieved. It's possible that the below communique was sent out to all of Adobe's business contacts. "While Dmitry is not free and Adobe hasn't compensated Dmitry's family for their emotional distress ("moral'niy uscherb"?), I retain a certain disgust toward this "company". Thus, with my apologies, I will not, for time being, translate their words. "Only out of respect for the people who do not speak English, I'd likea to mention that the gist of the below is the same thing reported to us in a much better manner by EFF, plus idiotic statements about how the DMCA defends someone's rights -- don't know whose. The emotions are mine." On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Ilya V. Vasilyev wrote: > Hi, All! >=20 > =F1 =D0=C5=D2=C5=D7=CF=C4=C9=CC =D3=CF=CF=C2=DD=C5=CE=C9=C5 EFF =CF =D0= =C5=D2=C5=C7=CF=D7=CF=D2=C1=C8 =D3 Adobe =D3=D2=C1=DA=D5 =D6=C5 =D0=CF=D3= =CC=C5 =D0=D5=C2=CC=C9=CB=C1=C3=C9=C9. > =EE=C9=D6=C5 =CF=D0=C9=D3=D9=D7=C1=C0=D4=D3=D1 =D2=C5=DA=D5=CC=D8=D4=C1= =D4=D9 =D3 =C4=D2=D5=C7=CF=CA =D3=D4=CF=D2=CF=CE=D9 -- =D4=CF, =CB=C1=CB Ad= obe =CF=D0=C9=D3=D9=D7=C1=C5=D4 > =D0=C5=D2=C5=C7=CF=D7=CF=D2=D9 =C9 =C4=CF=D3=D4=C9=C7=CE=D5=D4=D9=C5 =D2= =C5=DA=D5=CC=D8=D4=C1=D4=D9. =F7=CF=DA=CD=CF=D6=CE=CF, =DE=D4=CF =DC=D4=CF= =D3=CF=CF=C2=DD=C5=CE=C9=C5 =C2=D9=CC=CF > =D2=C1=DA=CF=D3=CC=C1=CE=CF =D0=CF =D7=D3=C5=CD =C4=C5=CC=CF=D7=D9=CD =CB= =CF=CE=D4=C1=CB=D4=C1=CD Adobe. >=20 > =F0=CF=CB=C1 =E4=CD=C9=D4=D2=C9=CA =CE=C5 =CE=C1 =D3=D7=CF=C2=CF=C4=C5, = =C1 Adobe =CE=C5 =CB=CF=CD=D0=C5=CE=D3=C9=D2=CF=D7=C1=CC=C1 =CD=CF=D2=C1=CC= =D8=CE=D9=CA =D5=DD=C5=D2=C2 =D3=C5=CD=D8=C5 > =E4=CD=C9=D4=D2=C9=D1, =D5 =CD=C5=CE=D1 =C5=D3=D4=D8 =CE=C5=CB=C1=D1 =C2= =D2=C5=DA=C7=CC=C9=D7=CF=D3=D4=D8 =D7 =CF=D4=CE=CF=DB=C5=CE=C9=C9 =DC=D4=CF= =CA "=C6=C9=D2=CD=D9". =F0=CF=DC=D4=CF=CD=D5 > =D0=D2=CF=D3=D4=C9=D4=C5, =D0=C5=D2=C5=D7=CF=C4=C9=D4=D8 =C9=C8 =D3=CC=CF= =D7=C1 =D1 =CE=C5 =C2=D5=C4=D5. >=20 > =E9 =D4=CF=CC=D8=CB=CF =C9=DA =D5=D7=C1=D6=C5=CE=C9=D1 =CB =CC=C0=C4=D1= =CD, =CE=C5 =DA=CE=C1=C0=DD=C9=CD =C1=CE=C7=CC=C9=CA=D3=CB=C9=CA, =D3=CF=CF= =C2=DD=D5 -- =D4=C1=CD =D4=CF =D6=C5 > =D3=C1=CD=CF=C5, =DE=D4=CF =CE=C1=CD =C7=CF=D2=C1=DA=C4=CF =CF=D0=C5=D2= =C1=D4=C9=D7=CE=C5=C5 =D3=CF=CF=C2=DD=C9=CC =E6=CF=CE=C4 =FC=CC=C5=CB=D4=D2= =CF=CE=CE=CF=C7=CF =E6=D2=CF=CE=D4=C9=D2=C1 =D0=CC=C0=D3 > =D4=D5=D0=D9=C5 =D7=D9=D3=CB=C1=DA=D9=D7=C1=CE=C9=D1, =DE=D4=CF =D5=C2=CC= =C0=C4=CF=DE=CE=D9=CA DMCA =DA=C1=DD=C9=DD=C1=C5=D4 =CE=C5=D0=CF=CE=D1=D4= =CE=CF =DE=D8=C9 =D0=D2=C1=D7=C1. > =FC=CD=CF=C3=C9=C9 =CD=CF=C9. >=20 > - - - > Ilya V. Vasilyev > Civil Hackers' School > Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 > http://server23.net/user/ath/ >=20 > ---- >=20 > Monday, Adobe met with officials from the Electronic Frontier Foundation >=20 > (EFF) to better understand their concerns and explore ways to resolve > the > issues surrounding the arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov while preserving Adobe > and > its customers' copyrights. This meeting covered concerns about this > case, > and while we strongly support the Digital Millennium Copyright Act > (DMCA) > and the enforcement of copyright protection of digital content, > prosecuting Mr. Sklyarov in this particular case is not conducive to the > best interests > of any of the parties involved or the industry. It has always been > Adobe's > goal to have ElcomSoft stop selling the Advanced eBook Processor > software, > and this has happened. >=20 > As a result of our meeting today, Adobe and the EFF issued a joint press >=20 > release recommending the release of Dmitry Sklyarov from federal > custody. > Adobe is also withdrawing its support for the criminal complaint against >=20 > Mr. Sklyarov. The press release is attached for your reference. >=20 > The criminal complaint against Mr. Sklyarov has been, and continues to > be, > in the hands of the US Attorney's office and it is up to them as to how > they choose to proceed. While we are not interested in supporting the > prosecution of this case, Adobe will continue to protect its copyright > interests and those of its customers. >=20 > Security is an ongoing effort at Adobe and the company is committed to > strengthening the security of its products. Regarding the Acrobat eBook > Reader, the company continues to make changes to the encryption scheme > of > the current version the software. Adobe will continue its Web > surveillance > of compromised eBooks in Adobe PDF. Reports continue show no compromised >=20 > eBooks on FTP, web sites or popular peer-to-peer networks. >=20 > In conclusion, Adobe extends its gratitude for your patience and > support. > Adobe strongly believes in copyright protection for digital content and > will continue to support technology standards bodies, government > agencies > and publishing industry associations in enforcing copyright protection > on > the Internet. We also look forward to continuing the good work of the > digital rights management standards group in the OeBF (Open eBook Forum) > on > eBook > security and encryption issues. >=20 > --- >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov >=20 --=20 -alexf From smitty825 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 16:31:35 2001 From: smitty825 at yahoo.com (Dan Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Show of Solidarity In-Reply-To: <87g0bk7fx7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010725233135.32368.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Klepht, I don't think that we should avoid protesting. EFF is scheduled to meet sometime on Friday with the Attorney General. That means that Dmitry as to spend ANOTHER FULL DAY IN JAIL for the crime of pissing off Adobe! If I was in jail for something as ridiculous as this, then I'd wish that my supporters fought for me every minute, and not put their faith into some negotiating committee that won't even happen tomorrow. Just MHO... Dan --- Klepht wrote: > It might be a bit of a coup and a show of solidarity > for sites like > freesklyarov.org or RejectMueller.com and others to > put up a "No > Protests Until After Meeting" notice. > > Something like, "We won't be having any protests > until after Friday's > meeting between the EFF and the US Attorney. We look > forward to > favorable outcomes." > > Costs nothing, and it gives our friendly EFF > negotiators a boost. Why > not? > > ~Klepht > > -- > klepht@eleutheria.org > http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From pablos at kadrevis.com Wed Jul 25 16:33:32 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Non-US programmers (fwd) Message-ID: <3635089.996078812@[10.0.1.220]> Here's someone who needs some feedback about how to help. pablos. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Thursday, July 26, 2001 9:28 AM +1000 From: "jenn@simegen.com" To: "wtf@rejectmueller.com" Subject: Non-US programmers I have been thinking about what those of us who do NOT live in the USA can do. I assume that those of you who do live there are aware that most of us (Open Source programmers, etc) are now wary of ever going to the USA for any reason. I was wondering if there was someone in the US Congress who needs this pointed out to them - possibly by an email campaign. (Snail mail from Australia to the USA takes two weeks - we do NOT want to make Dmitry wait that long!) Alternatively, if the relevent Congresspeople only have snail mail, someone in the USA could act as a letter-drop for those of us outside the USA to email, that US person could print and send the collected emails on our behalf. Please let me know when you know what you're going to do here. I emailed Adobe, but am reluctant to snail-mail Meuller's office - as I said, it'd take too FSCKING long to arrive. Sincerely (because, dammit, I want to be able to go to conventions and conferences without expecting arrest...) Jenn V. -- "Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer. jenn@simegen.com Jenn Vesperman http://www.simegen.com/~jenn/ ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 16:34:15 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dr. James Billington, Librarian of Congress In-Reply-To: <20010725154817.K16102@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010725233415.29804.qmail@web13903.mail.yahoo.com> hi jono the links at the bottom (one to the hr 2281 and one to the joint report) are different and predate the report below. --- "Jon O ." wrote: > > It's linked right at the bottom of this pages along > with other > good stuff: > > http://www.anti-dmca.org/docs.html > > > > > > > On 25-Jul-2001, alfee cube wrote: > > i have been looking for a copy of the first > recently > > issued report: > > > > "DMCA section 104 report : a report of the > Register of > > Copyrights pursuant to [section] 104 of the > Digital > > Millennium Copyright Act." > > > > LCCN: 2001-42373 > > KF2989.573.A15 2001 > > > > if someone has located this (besides the copy in > the > > library of congress) i would appreciate the > > information. > > > > > > --- Nick Moffitt wrote: > > > Dr. James Billington is a russophile and the > USA's > > > Librarian of > > > Librarians. > > > > > > Perhaps we should send him letters on the > subject. > > > > > > > > > http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/11/01/digital.copyright.idg/ > > > > Billington based his statements on the > > > recommendations of the > > > > register of copyrights, who was assigned to > > > consider a wide range of > > > > possible adverse impacts of the prohibition. > The > > > Copyright Office's > > > > primary responsibility was to assess whether > > > current technologies > > > > that control access to copyrighted works are > > > "diminishing the > > > > ability of individuals to use works in lawful, > > > non-infringing ways," > > > > Billington said in the statement. > > > > > > > > Robert Dizard Jr., staff director of the > Copyright > > > Office, said the > > > > register of copyrights found that the access > > > controls were adversely > > > > affecting people who wanted to access the two > > > exempt classes of > > > > work. The register made the recommendation > based > > > on public comments > > > > showing problems with these two particular > > > classes, Dizard said, > > > > adding that the ruling should not be > considered a > > > defeat or victory > > > > for any particular group. > > > > > > > > "We would not characterize this as a > rulemaking to > > > select winners > > > > and losers," he said. "Congress indicated in > the > > > statute that the > > > > record had to clearly support an adverse > affect" > > > in order to obtain > > > > an exemption. > > > > > > http://www.ala.org/washoff/alawon/alwn9085.html > > > > The Librarian of Congress James Billington has > > > ruled against the > > > > American public and library users by negating > fair > > > use in the > > > > digital arena. Billington allowed only two > > > exceptions in the fair > > > > use proceeding involving the 1201 > > > anticircumvention provision of the > > > > Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). > > > > > > > > A preliminary review of the ruling reveals > that > > > Billington adopted > > > > recommendations by Marybeth Peters, Register > of > > > Copyrights, to > > > > provide exemptions only for malfunctions and > to > > > determine which > > > > sites are blocked by filtering software. The > > > exemption related to > > > > circumventing filtering software may be useful > > > although problematic. > > > > > > > > > http://www.uwex.edu/disted/desien/2000/0011/copyright.htm > > > > LIBRARIANS AND DIGITAL COPYRIGHT - Affirmation > of > > > the Digital > > > > Millennium Copyright Act by the Library of > > > Congress, has angered > > > > librarians. The DMCA, gives owners of > copyrighted > > > digital content > > > > control over how that content is accessed. > There > > > is particular > > > > concern about making certain that the precepts > of > > > the "fair use" > > > > principle are carried over to the digital age. > The > > > Librarian of > > > > Congress, James Billington, has recently said > that > > > he believes it is > > > > very important that the fair-use principle be > > > maintained. He also > > > > affirmed that the new legislation affects > access, > > > not content use. > > > > The ruling most severely impacts students, > > > academics and others > > > > performing scholarly research by preventing > them > > > from getting around > > > > technological protection measures when > referring > > > to copyrighted > > > > material. (InformationWeek Online, 30 Oct 00) > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > "The only thing is certain: Russian petty > computer > > > hooligans are very > > > slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent > in > > > hunting them." --Pravda > > > 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! > > > ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not > actually > > > amaze.) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From drumz at best.com Wed Jul 25 16:35:29 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Libertarian anti-DMCA is fantasy In-Reply-To: <3B5F2ED9.448D70E6@sethf.com> from Seth Finkelstein at "Jul 25, 1 04:40:57 pm" Message-ID: <200107252335.QAA22855@shell3.ba.best.com> Seth Finkelstein writes: > There were no lobbyists calling on a Libertarian congress > member saying "This is about PROPERTY RIGHTS. It's about THEFT > of OUR PROPERTY. You should see that Libertarianism requires that > PROPERTY be protected from hacker-THIEVES. And here is a very > large campaign contribution to help you study our point of view." > > If that happened, I think the votes would be a different > story. Maybe. Maybe not. One thing is certain: Libertarian candidates take an oath to their party to oppose the initiation of force. To the extent that voting for the DMCA violates that oath -- and I think most of us would agree that it does -- LP candidates are going to be less susceptible to the influence of corporate dollars than are most Democrats and Republicans. (Think Libertarians would give us a corporate-controlled government? Well, what exactly do we have now?) Libertarians are very insistent that there needs to be an identifiable victim before the state can use force. In Sklyarov's case, who's the victim? Not Adobe: a typical Libertarian would clearly identify code as speech, and conclude that the First Amendment overrides any claim by Adobe of victimization. The only possible victim is the publisher whose encrypted work is transferred to another party without his permission -- and in that case, the perpetrator is the person who made the transfer, not the person who wrote the software to make the transfer possible. A responsible Libertarian will not agree that it is acceptable to prosecute someone for "contributory infringement" simply because prosecuting the actual infringer is held to be impractical. I'm not going to argue that everyone should go out and vote Libertarian in every race; I'm registered with the LP, but I voted for Democrats and Republicans in the last election as well. But I think there's a strong case to be made that a Libertarian vote can be effective, and is becoming more so as the party grows. In fact, the National Review thinks that we'd currently have a Republican rather than Democratic Senate if not for the influence of the LP on the last election, and the Republicans are already considering asking the LP to sit out certain races in 2002 -- not that we're likely to oblige them unless we get some firm commitments from their candidates to put the social conservatives in their place and give equal time to advancing libertarian goals. Ethan -- "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation." -- Thomas Brackett-Reed From rabbi at quickie.net Wed Jul 25 16:38:18 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protesters target FBI nominee over Russian arrest In-Reply-To: <20010725112740.N29863@lemuria.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Tom wrote: > I will send a letter to someone appropriate in germany and ask them to > oppose his nomination because he is arresting foreign nationals on > made-up, dubious charges and if he becomes the next FBI director, I'd > be afraid to travel to the states. It's my understanding that he's been pretty much out of the loop on this case. Let's see what his response is after the EFF's meeting. There's time for him to "make right." Of course, if he doesn't spring Dmitry, I'm in total agreement with you. -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From free-sklyarov at happycool.com Wed Jul 25 16:37:25 2001 From: free-sklyarov at happycool.com (Victor Piterbarg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010725193059.037affe8@mail.utstar.com> Message-ID: I'll put up another $50. However, keep in mind that she still needs to get a visa, which is often problematic. One thing she'd need to get is an "affidavit of support" from somebody in the USA who can prove that he has enough funds to support her and her children during her stay. To get a visa she'd need to prove that she'll return back to Russia...I don't see how she'd want to stay in a country that did this to her husband, but not sure how that argument would fly with the embassy officials. -Victor -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Sreeni R. Nair Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 4:32 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit At 07:05 PM 7/25/2001 -0400, Seth Johnson wrote: >So would I. Even up it to $40 as a gesture to encourage participation. > Not rich either, but I am good for $50. The ordinary man acts because he thinks his act will be profitable; the superior man, however, acts because he thinks his act is right. -- Confucius _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From derek_gladding at altavista.net Wed Jul 25 16:41:04 2001 From: derek_gladding at altavista.net (Derek Gladding) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit In-Reply-To: <3B5F40BC.90408@kalifornia.com> Message-ID: I would also be willing to contribute to this cause. A quick hunt on Travelocity gives a price of about $700 for 1 adult + 2 children from Moscow to SFO round-trip. We should be able to raise that much. I'll offer to put $50 in the pot. - Derek -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Ben Ford Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 2:57 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit Seth Johnson wrote: >See, this is a <> idea. > >What about we get up a fund and offer her and her child a round trip with >an indefinite stay? > >Suggest she visit some of the demonstrations. And let the media know >she'll be there. We could incrementally have different demonstration >sites scare up funds for her to visit them. > >This is such a great idea. > >Seth Johnson > >-----Original Message----- >From: "Charles Eakins" >Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:18:03 -0700 >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought > >>Would having Dmitry's family over here, look better to a Bail judge, >>about >>flight risk? Any arrangments made to that affect? >> I'd donate $20 to that. -- Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are going to burn in Hell forever. _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From drumz at best.com Wed Jul 25 16:43:16 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE:Congress No Haven for Hackers Message-ID: <200107252343.QAA26179@shell3.ba.best.com> Edmund writes: > Uhmm, there's not any chance of him moving to CA and running against > Feinstein is there? OK, I know, I'm dreaming, but I just thought I'd > ask... You know, as much as I'd like to believe otherwise, I think the seat is Feinstain's for as long as she wants it. Here are my assumptions: 1) The state Democratic leadership will never select another candidate over Feinstein. That means that a Republican would have to defeat her. 2) A libertarian Republican would drive most social conservatives into the Feinstein camp. 3) A social-conservative Republican would drive most libertarians into the Feinstein camp. (2) is probably the best chance we've got, and it failed miserably in November. Tom Campbell is a libertarian Republican and a great guy in my book -- pro-choice, anti-drug-war, violently opposed to any government regulation of the Internet, basically wants to get government the hell out of our faces. He lost by almost two to one. Sure, one could argue that he might have done better if the Republican leadership hadn't considered losing to Feinstein a foregone conclusion and decided to spend its campaign dollars elsewhere -- but actually *winning* was never in the cards, and if Campbell couldn't do it, I have a hard time seeing how anyone else is going to. Ethan From honeypot at online.no Wed Jul 25 16:38:04 2001 From: honeypot at online.no (Eli Therese) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Support - Norway References: <20010725233135.32368.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <019101c11562$d9ef4700$0300000a@broadpark.no> Hello I was wondering wether anyone knows of support groups in Norway? Since I live in Oslo it's naturally a little difficult for me to take part in groups in the US. Thanks for all your help. Therese :) From adam at deprince.net Wed Jul 25 16:41:40 2001 From: adam at deprince.net (adam@deprince.net) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Please no flames for what i'm about to propose... In-Reply-To: <01072514130904.14496@stumpy> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Roger Kramer wrote: > I'm just trying to keep options open... > Yesterday someone correctly, I think, observed that there are 2nd amendment > issues here, too. Would anyone deny software can be used as a weapon? A similar question: Can speech be used as a weapon? Yes, sure, its called propaganda. But in spite of speech's ability to "be" something, there is that pesky 1st amendment that sets it apart from other "things". :-) Cheers - Adam From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 25 16:46:03 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Was That It? Message-ID: <87y9pc6090.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Will, So, you said there'd be an announce by 5PM. Was the one about meeting with the US Attorney it? It's not like I'm underwhelmed, but there seems to be some confusion. Don't leave us hanging! ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 25 16:49:41 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Was That It? In-Reply-To: <87y9pc6090.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 04:46:03PM -0700 References: <87y9pc6090.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010725164941.Y14917@zork.net> Klepht writes: > Will, > > So, you said there'd be an announce by 5PM. Was the one about meeting > with the US Attorney it? > > It's not like I'm underwhelmed, but there seems to be some > confusion. Don't leave us hanging! I'm sure that's the expected announcement. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From ed at hintz.org Wed Jul 25 16:49:33 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit Message-ID: <200107252349.f6PNnXc15092@phil.hintz.org> On 7/25/01 4:37 PM, free-sklyarov@happycool.com thus spake: >I'll put up another $50. However, keep in mind that she still needs to get a >visa, which is often problematic. One thing she'd need to get is an >"affidavit of support" from somebody in the USA who can prove that he has >enough funds to support her and her children during her stay. To get a visa >she'd need to prove that she'll return back to Russia...I don't see how >she'd want to stay in a country that did this to her husband, but not sure >how that argument would fly with the embassy officials. And before you go too fast, also keep in mind that up to this point she has said she does NOT want to do this... So don't start collecting money just yet folks-or if you do keep in mind that it may never go for it's intended purpose, and instead end up in the EFF's coffers or whatever. Not necessarily a bad thing, I suppose. Anyway, point being, don't get too gung ho on this until somebody hears from her directly that she would want to do this, contrary to her earlier statements. Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From nbhs2 at i-2000.com Wed Jul 25 16:53:47 2001 From: nbhs2 at i-2000.com (Michael Scottaline) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: He's free.... In-Reply-To: <200107252309.QAA12246@shell3.ba.best.com> References: <20010725202223.95265.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> <200107252309.QAA12246@shell3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <20010725195347.2001910a.nbhs2@i-2000.com> On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 16:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Ethan Straffin insightfully noted: > > what a great paragraph! > > > > --- Jimmy Alderson wrote: > > > "That ideas should spread from one to another over > > > the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of > > > man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have > > > been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, > > > when she made them , like fire, expansible over all > > > space, without lessening their density at any point, > > > and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have > > > our physical being, incapable of confinement or > > > exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in > > > nature, be a subject of property." -Thomas > > > Jefferson > > Jefferson channeling Hemingway. Cool. > > Jefferson is da man. I can still read his words and feel how much he > feared the kind of government we have today, and how violently he would > have opposed it. I've referred to myself as a libertarian, Libertarian, > or independent, but usually these days I just call myself a > Jeffersonian. > > Some of my other favorites: > > "Reading, reflection and time have convinced me that the interests of > society require the observation of those moral precepts only in which > all > religions agree (for all forbid us to murder, steal, plunder, or bear > false witness), and that we should not intermeddle with the particular > dogmas in which all religions differ, and which are totally unconnected > with morality." > > "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of > civilization, > it expects what never was and never will be." > > "A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring > one > another; shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits > of > industry and improvement." > > "A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose > both, and deserve neither." > > "If we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with > a > wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to > inform > their discretion by education." > > "Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and > mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day." > > "A little rebellion now and then...is a medicine necessary for the sound > health of government." > > "The most important bill in our whole code is that for the diffusion of > knowledge among the people. No other sure foundation can be devised, > for > the preservation of freedom and happiness." ========================================= It's writings such as these that would have landed Jefferson in the cell right next to Sklyarov. Hmmm.. perhaps not: too dangerous to keep together. You know...., they might start actually exchanging ideas. Mike -- "One can search the brain with a microscope and not find the mind, and can search the stars with a telescope and not find God." -- J. Gustav White From kris at firstworld.net Wed Jul 25 16:52:09 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010725193059.037affe8@mail.utstar.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010725164924.011cc898@pop.firstworld.net> At 04:37 PM 7/25/2001 -0700, Victor Piterbarg wrote: >I'll put up another $50. However, keep in mind that she still needs to get a >visa, which is often problematic. One thing she'd need to get is an >"affidavit of support" from somebody in the USA who can prove that he has >enough funds to support her and her children during her stay. To get a visa >she'd need to prove that she'll return back to Russia...I don't see how >she'd want to stay in a country that did this to her husband, but not sure >how that argument would fly with the embassy officials. True, getting a visa can be problematic, but it is my understanding that a call from a MOC to the State Department can usually make most of the bureaucratic nonsense disappear. Kris From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 16:55:46 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Web site and 'writing your congressman' (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3B5F55D4.44A8B5D1@sethf.com> Message-ID: <20010725235546.85574.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com> thanks seth:) ill go through this comprehensive list. --- Seth Finkelstein wrote: > alfee cube wrote: > > much information about how your representative > > understands (or at least what they are told) can > be > > gleaned from: > > > > "section by section analysis of H.R. 2281 as > passed by > > the house of representatives on aug. 4, 1998" > > > > i have not yet been able to get this in digital > > format. i have a copy but it is to poor to scan. > > > > if someone finds a digital copy the list could > benefit > > by learning what the legislators have been told. > > Try the material at: > > http://eon.law.harvard.edu/openlaw/DVD/dmca/ > > > -- > Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer > sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com > http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From honig at sprynet.com Wed Jul 25 16:32:41 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's Status In-Reply-To: <20010725200920.29507.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724223935.049bbcb0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010725163241.007a1440@pop.sprynet.com> At 01:09 PM 7/25/01 -0700, alfee cube wrote: >i dont think to little contact is an issue - he's >probably been given his "own" personal cell phone and >told to make all the calls he wants! > FWIW, all his calls (except maybe to attorney) will be monitored by the cops. Legally. From honig at sprynet.com Wed Jul 25 16:46:46 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Web site and 'writing your congressman' (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3174283.996071131@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010725164646.009e8360@pop.sprynet.com> At 02:25 PM 7/25/01 -0700, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: >Anyone want to elaborate on this? > >pablos. > Well, every shmoo who has posted to *this* list is on a List too. And all the meatspace protesters have nice photo-portraits in various offices too. Depending on the interest/abilities of the Listkeepers, all the *subscribers* of this list are on a List as well (is Majordomo, etc. perfect?) Heh, *multiple* lists. Shoot, there's probably a list just for people who are on multiple lists. Big deal. If you're concerned, put on those groucho glasses and go to an internet cafe and browse the web version. Via an anonymous proxy. Did you remember to play Spot the Fed at the rallies? :-) "Paranoia is awareness" >---------- Forwarded Message ---------- >Date: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 7:07 AM -0500 >From: Charles Marcus Durrett >To: "pablos@kadrevis.com" >Subject: The Web site and 'writing your congressman' > > >If you write your congressman, and especially if you write the security >organizations and enforcement agencies, your name will go on a list. It >would be wise to preserve a core cadre who had not identified themselves as >troublemakers ahead of time. >As in "This is the FBI! Drop that debugger or we open fire." > >Chuck > > > >__________________________________________________ >Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > >---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- > > >-- >Pablos Kadrevis >pablos@kadrevis.com >415.420.3806 >www.shmoo.com/~pablos > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From honig at sprynet.com Wed Jul 25 16:50:42 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit In-Reply-To: <3B5F40BC.90408@kalifornia.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010725165042.009e6be0@pop.sprynet.com> At 02:57 PM 7/25/01 -0700, Ben Ford wrote: >Seth Johnson wrote: > >>See, this is a <> idea. >> >>What about we get up a fund and offer her and her child a round trip with >>an indefinite stay? You obviously don't have children. From honig at sprynet.com Wed Jul 25 16:53:59 2001 From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Web site and 'writing your congressman' (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3B5F4475.3A6B7524@sethf.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010725165359.009e8c00@pop.sprynet.com> At 06:13 PM 7/25/01 -0400, Seth Finkelstein wrote: >that matter? That is, does a pages-long letter count even >marginally more than a short one? Is the key aspect the letter >itself, and sounding halfway-not-insane (:-)), rather than cites >and credentials? Or does it really matter if I puff myself >(or would that be negative, since I'm not an ordinary citizen then?) >Thanks for some insight here. > You assume that the congressvermin will recognize and appreciate your credentials. Write two letters, one as rube, the other offering your technical services to his staff. The important thing is to write. From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 25 16:59:35 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Show of Solidarity In-Reply-To: <20010725233135.32368.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010725233135.32368.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <87vgkg5zmg.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "DS" == Dan Smith writes: DS> Klepht, I don't think that we should avoid protesting. EFF is DS> scheduled to meet sometime on Friday with the Attorney DS> General. That means that Dmitry as to spend ANOTHER FULL DAY DS> IN JAIL for the crime of pissing off Adobe! Dan... how do I put this in a way that sounds good? Aw, fuckit: there's no protests planned before Friday that have come through this list. There's no pain in saying that we don't have protests planned, and there's a teeny bit of advantage in that we support our buddies at the EFF. I know what you mean about each day being precious. I -hate- the fact that Dmitry is still in prison. All day, when I'm in meetings at work, or walking to lunch, or sitting for a smoke in the sun, I think to myself what Dmitry is doing right at that moment, and what it would be like to be in his place. It's bullshit, it's wrong, it should have never happened and it should have stopped weeks ago. So if someone was really concerned, and they thought that having a protest before Friday would help spring Dmitry, and help more than waiting till after Friday, that's probably a good thing to do. I don't think that's the truth, but whatever. Now, if someone were to plan a protest just to spit in the eye of the EFF, I'd say that was mean-spirited, counterproductive, and wrong. I mean, WTF? You may not agree with the EFF all the time, but there's no reason to go out of our way to cut them off at the knees. One thing I might suggest for anyone chomping at the bit to get work done: this may be a good time for lower-profile leafletting campaigns, and more Net awareness. Hit the streets with a couple of friends, put up posters or hand out flyers. Talk to your local newspaper or radio station -- many allow guest editorials, which would be great for spreading the word. Contact local political parties, local pols, or whoever, and ask for their support. Do organization and planning for _next_ week's events. And of course, think up crazy ways to get Dmitry's name across the net and keep this a hot issue. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 25 17:01:33 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Web site and 'writing your congressman' (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010725164646.009e8360@pop.sprynet.com>; from honig@sprynet.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 04:46:46PM -0700 References: <3174283.996071131@[10.0.1.220]> <3.0.6.32.20010725164646.009e8360@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: <20010725170133.D14917@zork.net> David Honig writes: > Depending on the interest/abilities of the Listkeepers, all the > *subscribers* of this list are on a List as well (is Majordomo, etc. > perfect?) Heh, *multiple* lists. Shoot, there's > probably a list just for people who are on multiple lists. > > Big deal. Note that our subscriber lists are not available to the public, although they are certainly at non-zero risk in case of a subpoena or something. We have already talked about this earlier. -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe From declan at well.com Wed Jul 25 17:03:29 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Libertarian anti-DMCA is fantasy In-Reply-To: <200107252335.QAA22855@shell3.ba.best.com>; from drumz@best.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 04:35:29PM -0700 References: <3B5F2ED9.448D70E6@sethf.com> <200107252335.QAA22855@shell3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <20010725200329.B24110@cluebot.com> To bring this debate back to "Free Dmitry," someone from Citizens for a Sound Economy, an advocacy group that has ties with the Republican Party but is libertarian on tech issues, showed up to the DC protest on Monday. I've spoken with and interviewed representatives of the Competitive Intelligence Institute and the Cato Institute and the Pacific Research Institute (libertarian think tanks) and not one believes that what Dmitry did should be a crime. These groups are your natural allies, and frothing here against "those evil libertarians" or whatever won't help them move from criticizing the DMCA and Dmitry's arrest to participating in an active repeal/ rewrite effort. -Declan On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 04:35:29PM -0700, Ethan Straffin wrote: > Seth Finkelstein writes: > > There were no lobbyists calling on a Libertarian congress > > member saying "This is about PROPERTY RIGHTS. It's about THEFT > > of OUR PROPERTY. You should see that Libertarianism requires that > > PROPERTY be protected from hacker-THIEVES. And here is a very > > large campaign contribution to help you study our point of view." > > > > If that happened, I think the votes would be a different > > story. > > Maybe. Maybe not. One thing is certain: Libertarian candidates take an > oath to their party to oppose the initiation of force. To the extent that > voting for the DMCA violates that oath -- and I think most of us would > agree that it does -- LP candidates are going to be less susceptible to > the influence of corporate dollars than are most Democrats and > Republicans. (Think Libertarians would give us a corporate-controlled > government? Well, what exactly do we have now?) > > Libertarians are very insistent that there needs to be an identifiable > victim before the state can use force. In Sklyarov's case, who's the > victim? Not Adobe: a typical Libertarian would clearly identify code as > speech, and conclude that the First Amendment overrides any claim by Adobe > of victimization. The only possible victim is the publisher whose > encrypted work is transferred to another party without his permission -- > and in that case, the perpetrator is the person who made the transfer, not > the person who wrote the software to make the transfer possible. A > responsible Libertarian will not agree that it is acceptable to prosecute > someone for "contributory infringement" simply because prosecuting the > actual infringer is held to be impractical. > > I'm not going to argue that everyone should go out and vote Libertarian in > every race; I'm registered with the LP, but I voted for Democrats and > Republicans in the last election as well. But I think there's a strong > case to be made that a Libertarian vote can be effective, and is becoming > more so as the party grows. In fact, the National Review thinks that we'd > currently have a Republican rather than Democratic Senate if not for the > influence of the LP on the last election, and the Republicans are already > considering asking the LP to sit out certain races in 2002 -- not that > we're likely to oblige them unless we get some firm commitments from their > candidates to put the social conservatives in their place and give equal > time to advancing libertarian goals. > > Ethan > -- > "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils > in this world are to be cured by legislation." -- Thomas Brackett-Reed > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From bcollins at techcritique.com Wed Jul 25 17:00:57 2001 From: bcollins at techcritique.com (Brandon Collins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit References: Message-ID: <01b001c11566$0cfbf190$d080b4d8@techlkpl5wd3de> Hi all, I'd be willing to give $100-$150 to help make that happen. -Brandon Collins Editor-in-Chief www.techcritique.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Gladding" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 6:41 PM Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit > I would also be willing to contribute to this cause. A quick > hunt on Travelocity gives a price of about $700 for 1 adult + > 2 children from Moscow to SFO round-trip. > > We should be able to raise that much. > > I'll offer to put $50 in the pot. > > - Derek > > > -----Original Message----- > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Ben Ford > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 2:57 PM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit > > > Seth Johnson wrote: > > >See, this is a <> idea. > > > >What about we get up a fund and offer her and her child a round trip with > >an indefinite stay? > > > >Suggest she visit some of the demonstrations. And let the media know > >she'll be there. We could incrementally have different demonstration > >sites scare up funds for her to visit them. > > > >This is such a great idea. > > > >Seth Johnson > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: "Charles Eakins" > >Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:18:03 -0700 > >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought > > > >>Would having Dmitry's family over here, look better to a Bail judge, > >>about > >>flight risk? Any arrangments made to that affect? > >> > > I'd donate $20 to that. > > -- > Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are > going to burn in Hell forever. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > From nbhs2 at i-2000.com Wed Jul 25 17:06:17 2001 From: nbhs2 at i-2000.com (Michael Scottaline) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Show of Solidarity In-Reply-To: <20010725233135.32368.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <87g0bk7fx7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010725233135.32368.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010725200617.63a0c346.nbhs2@i-2000.com> On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 16:31:35 -0700 (PDT) Dan Smith insightfully noted: > Klepht, > > I don't think that we should avoid protesting. EFF is > scheduled to meet sometime on Friday with the Attorney > General. That means that Dmitry as to spend ANOTHER > FULL DAY IN JAIL for the crime of pissing off Adobe! > If I was in jail for something as ridiculous as this, > then I'd wish that my supporters fought for me every > minute, and not put their faith into some negotiating > committee that won't even happen tomorrow. > > Just MHO... > > Dan =============================== I don't disagree Dan, but I believe Klepht was thinking in a more tactical mode. Yeah, If I were in Dmitry's place, I'd want my supporters to have tactical nukes, but realistically, we have to consider what will be most effective at this point. Not JUST for Dmitry [though he is central at the moment], but generally and more long-term. Mike -- "One can search the brain with a microscope and not find the mind, and can search the stars with a telescope and not find God." -- J. Gustav White From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 25 17:05:02 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Non-US programmers (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3635089.996078812@[10.0.1.220]> References: <3635089.996078812@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <87snfk5zdd.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Jenn, Your mail to rejectmueller.com got forwarded to a list I'm on called free-sklyarov (see the CC: line). You were asking about what people outside the US can do to help free Dmitry. First off, get on this list! http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov Second, one of the things people in other countries have been doing is organizing protests at US embassies or consulates. This may be something you can do in Australia. It seems that the danger of traveling to the US is what resonates most with non-Americans. I suggest you get on the list and start working on it. If I'm not mistaken, there's a pretty lively Australian Linux community who'd be willing to get together with you to make this happen. Good luck, ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From declan at well.com Wed Jul 25 17:10:23 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's Status In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010725163241.007a1440@pop.sprynet.com>; from honig@sprynet.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 04:32:41PM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010724223935.049bbcb0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <20010725200920.29507.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20010725163241.007a1440@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: <20010725201023.C24110@cluebot.com> Right. I know Feds who have tapes of my conversations with people who have phoned me and I have interviewed from inside prison/jail. Be warned. -Declan On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 04:32:41PM -0700, David Honig wrote: > At 01:09 PM 7/25/01 -0700, alfee cube wrote: > >i dont think to little contact is an issue - he's > >probably been given his "own" personal cell phone and > >told to make all the calls he wants! > > > > FWIW, all his calls (except maybe to attorney) will be monitored > by the cops. Legally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From rabbi at quickie.net Wed Jul 25 17:09:22 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Please no flames for what i'm about to propos e... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Austin Hook wrote: > True, but the US Gov't does define it as so, in their prohibition of > export of high strength crypto. It's still on the books, only not > enforced. Without that definition, they wouldn't have been able to give > Zimmerman and PGP so much grief. That is not correct. the export laws have changed drastically. --Len, former PGP employee. -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From free-sklyarov at happycool.com Wed Jul 25 17:07:56 2001 From: free-sklyarov at happycool.com (Victor Piterbarg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another LA Protest. Message-ID: Hi Everybody, How about getting together in LA again. I missed the first LA protest, because I attended the one in San Jose. I already emailed 'hackhawk' about organizing something, but he must be out today or something, 'cause I don't see him on the list and he hasn't responded yet. Anyway, if we can synchornize something with the Bay Area people again, I think that would be excellent. What's the interest/availability like? Thanks. -Victor From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 25 17:10:54 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Non-US programmers (fwd) In-Reply-To: <87snfk5zdd.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 05:05:02PM -0700 References: <3635089.996078812@[10.0.1.220]> <87snfk5zdd.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010725171054.E14917@zork.net> Klepht writes: > Jenn, > > Your mail to rejectmueller.com got forwarded to a list I'm on called > free-sklyarov (see the CC: line). You were asking about what people > outside the US can do to help free Dmitry. > > First off, get on this list! > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > Second, one of the things people in other countries have been doing is > organizing protests at US embassies or consulates. This may be > something you can do in Australia. It seems that the danger of > traveling to the US is what resonates most with non-Americans. Note also that a well-written letter of the form I am afraid to travel to the U.S. and am I a person of type X whom the U.S. might like to have around... (professor, college student, doctor, musician, rich tourist) might help. I believe the EFF is going to have a letter or two from internationally renowned computer security experts who are now reluctant to come to conferences in this country. Don't falsely claim that you're afraid to come, if you're not. But if this incident has affected you, an account of how, and what you'll do about it, could help. -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe From wild at eff.org Wed Jul 25 17:15:40 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit In-Reply-To: <3B5F40BC.90408@kalifornia.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725171402.0341c278@pop3.norton.antivirus> The initial inquiry EFF offered to Dmitry's family regarding travelling here to the United States was not accepted. It may be that if Dmitry is held for a longer time, his family will want to come visit, but the latest I heard, they are not eager, perhaps quite understandably, to enter the U.S. Free Dmitry and Reform Section 1201 of the DMCA, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 02:57 PM 7/25/2001 -0700, Ben Ford wrote: >Seth Johnson wrote: > >>See, this is a <> idea. >> >>What about we get up a fund and offer her and her child a round trip with >>an indefinite stay? >> >>Suggest she visit some of the demonstrations. And let the media know >>she'll be there. We could incrementally have different demonstration >>sites scare up funds for her to visit them. >> >>This is such a great idea. >> >>Seth Johnson >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: "Charles Eakins" >>Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:18:03 -0700 >>Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought >> >>>Would having Dmitry's family over here, look better to a Bail judge, >>>about >>>flight risk? Any arrangments made to that affect? > >I'd donate $20 to that. > >-- >Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are >going to burn in Hell forever. > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From krw5 at qwest.net Wed Jul 25 17:14:38 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Oksana US Visit In-Reply-To: <3B5F50A8.9742DD66@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> References: <3B5F40BC.90408@kalifornia.com> <3B5F50A8.9742DD66@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <0107251714380C.14496@stumpy> Count me in for at least $50. Clearly, raising air fare will be no problem from other postings I see. What about accomodations for them while they're here? I could offer my house at least temporarily, though, being in Seattle, it wouldn't do her much good if the point is to see Dmitry. (I also speak Russian, though not fluently.) Is there anyone in Vegas and/or San Fran that could provide accomodations? roger From ben at kalifornia.com Wed Jul 25 17:20:38 2001 From: ben at kalifornia.com (Ben Ford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit References: <3.0.6.32.20010725165042.009e6be0@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: <3B5F6256.8050807@kalifornia.com> David Honig wrote: >At 02:57 PM 7/25/01 -0700, Ben Ford wrote: > >>Seth Johnson wrote: >> >>>See, this is a <> idea. >>> >>>What about we get up a fund and offer her and her child a round trip with >>>an indefinite stay? >>> > >You obviously don't have children. > Um, matter of fact I do. -- Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are going to burn in Hell forever. From jenn at simegen.com Wed Jul 25 17:25:46 2001 From: jenn at simegen.com (jenn@simegen.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Non-US programmers (fwd) References: <3635089.996078812@[10.0.1.220]> <87snfk5zdd.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010725171054.E14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <3B5F638A.6050209@simegen.com> Seth David Schoen wrote: > Klepht writes: >> Your mail to rejectmueller.com got forwarded to a list I'm on called >> free-sklyarov (see the CC: line). You were asking about what people >> outside the US can do to help free Dmitry. >> >> First off, get on this list! >> >> http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov As can be seen, I now have. >> It seems that the danger of >> traveling to the US is what resonates most with non-Americans. > > Note also that a well-written letter of the form > > I am afraid to travel to the U.S. and am I a person of type X > whom the U.S. might like to have around... > > (professor, college student, doctor, musician, rich tourist) 'rich tourist' - I wish. :) > Don't falsely claim that you're afraid to come, if you're not. But if > this incident has affected you, an account of how, and what you'll do > about it, could help. It's put the US in the same category as most dictatorships: the mental 'Go if you don't mind being arbitrarily arrested' category. Not as bad as some, but enough to be wary and leery of travelling. I'll have to think about precisely what I'd want to say. But it's got me wondering what I do on a regular basis (legal here) which might be illegal in the US. Purchasing codeine tablets at the pharmacy? Offering them to friends? (as painkillers, of course!) Look out! Maybe I'm a drug trafficker! Geez. Jenn V. -- "Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer. jenn@simegen.com Jenn Vesperman http://www.simegen.com/~jenn/ From krw5 at qwest.net Wed Jul 25 17:26:40 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725171402.0341c278@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725171402.0341c278@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <0107251726400D.14496@stumpy> On Wednesday 25 July 2001 17:15, Will Doherty wrote: > The initial inquiry EFF offered to Dmitry's family > regarding travelling here to the United States was not > accepted. It may be that if Dmitry is held for a > longer time, his family will want to come visit, > but the latest I heard, they are not eager, perhaps > quite understandably, to enter the U.S. > Yes, QUITE understandably. ...Rather like getting an invitation from Beijing to go present a paper on the merits of free speech and a free Taiwan. roger From wild at eff.org Wed Jul 25 17:27:41 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chronicle of Higher Education: "Scholars Defend Russian Graduate Student Jailed in Las Vegas Encryption Case" Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725172559.05388ea8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Tuesday, July 24, 2001 Scholars Defend Russian Graduate Student Jailed in Las Vegas Encryption Case By ANDREA L. FOSTER Computer-science professors and students worldwide are rallying for Dmitri Sklyarov, a Russian graduate student who was jailed in Las Vegas last week for bypassing security mechanisms in Adobe software. Mr. Sklyarov, a student at Bauman Moscow State Technical University, in Russia, was arrested July 16 after giving a presentation to a conference of computer hackers. His talk was on security weaknesses in software used to limit access to electronic books. In addition to being a student, Mr. Sklyarov works for ElcomSoft, a Moscow company whose software can translate encrypted Adobe eBook Reader texts to unprotected files that can be freely distributed. The Federal Bureau of Investigation looked into a complaint by Adobe Systems Inc. that Mr. Sklyarov was illegally distributing copies of software that decrypts electronic books. The Justice Department subsequently charged him with violating the anti-circumvention provision of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. The provision prohibits people from unlocking security devices that restrict access to digital works. In the face of the uproar, Adobe yesterday asked the Justice Department to withdraw the charges. "The prosecution of this individual in this particular case is not conducive to the best interests of any of the parties involved or the industry," said Colleen Pouliot, senior vice president and general counsel for Adobe, in a prepared statement. Researchers and scholars have long faulted the anti-circumvention provision. They say it hinders scientists' ability to study security flaws in computer software. They also argue that the D.M.C.A. dissuades educators from excerpting passages from scholarly works for classroom instruction. Protests were planned Monday in 13 cities in an effort to pressure law-enforcement officials to withdraw charges against Mr. Sklyarov, and to free him from a Las Vegas jail where he was being held. Many of the protests were located in university cities because students and scientists are organizing the rallies. "We've never seen as much of an immediate response from the academic community as with this Dmitri Sklyarov case," said Will Doherty, a spokesman for the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Mr. Doherty said mathematicians at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, for example, have been spreading word about a rally for Mr. Sklyarov in Boston. The foundation, a San-Francisco-based nonprofit group that strives to make electronic data more accessible to the public, had been negotiating with Adobe on Monday in hopes of persuading the company to drop its complaint against the Russian programmer. Among those attending a rally in front of F.B.I. headquarters here in Washington was Andrew J. Downey, a 26-year-old graduate student at George Washington University. He studies computer security and expects to receive his master's degree in engineering management next year. Mr. Downey said it's important for scientists to be able to test the claims of software manufacturers that their products are impenetrable to hackers. "The D.M.C.A. is a bad law," Mr. Downey said. "It protects special interests at the cost of free speech." He also is a Web specialist for Citizens for a Sound Economy, a Washington group that supports smaller government and reduced taxes. Mr. Downey and other protesters had heard about the rally through e-mail lists and the Internet. David S. Touretzky, a computational neuroscientist at Carnegie Mellon University, has been updating a recently created Web site in an effort to broaden support for Mr. Sklyarov. The site, the Gallery of Adobe Remedies, publishes information about Adobe access-control devices. "Adobe has incredibly inept, sloppy encryption that works as long as nobody tries to break into it," said Mr. Touretzky. Adobe initially released a statement on its Web site saying it alerted government lawyers to the activities of ElcomSoft in order "to help protect the copyrighted works of authors, artists, developers and publishers, and to stop the sale of this cracking software in the U.S." But the statement was removed late Monday afternoon. Matthew J. Jacobs, assistant U.S. attorney for the northern district of California, who filed the charges against Mr. Sklyarov, was unavailable for comment Monday. _________________________________________________________________ Chronicle subscribers can read this article on the Web at this address: http://chronicle.com/free/2001/07/2001072401t.htm If you would like to have complete access to The Chronicle's Web site, a special subscription offer can be found at: http://chronicle.com/4free _________________________________________________________________ You may visit The Chronicle as follows: * via the World-Wide Web, at http://chronicle.com * via telnet at chronicle.com _________________________________________________________________ Copyright 2001 by The Chronicle of Higher Education From ed at hintz.org Wed Jul 25 17:29:42 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Oksana US Visit Message-ID: <200107260029.f6Q0Thc23676@phil.hintz.org> On 7/25/01 5:14 PM, krw5@qwest.net thus spake: > >I could offer my house at least temporarily, though, being in Seattle, it >wouldn't do her much good if the point is to see Dmitry. (I also speak >Russian, though not fluently.) Is there anyone in Vegas and/or San Fran that >could provide accomodations? I offered last week. See my last few posts, and Will Doherty's, for status... Short version: unless she changes her mind, she ain't coming, and I don't blame her in the least. Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From roylo at sr2c.com Wed Jul 25 17:30:29 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit References: Message-ID: <00f801c1156a$2c4ac9a0$0200a8c0@jwin> Same goes for me but where I do give the money to? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Gladding" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 4:41 PM Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit > I would also be willing to contribute to this cause. A quick > hunt on Travelocity gives a price of about $700 for 1 adult + > 2 children from Moscow to SFO round-trip. > > We should be able to raise that much. > > I'll offer to put $50 in the pot. > > - Derek > > > -----Original Message----- > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Ben Ford > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 2:57 PM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit > > > Seth Johnson wrote: > > >See, this is a <> idea. > > > >What about we get up a fund and offer her and her child a round trip with > >an indefinite stay? > > > >Suggest she visit some of the demonstrations. And let the media know > >she'll be there. We could incrementally have different demonstration > >sites scare up funds for her to visit them. > > > >This is such a great idea. > > > >Seth Johnson > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: "Charles Eakins" > >Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:18:03 -0700 > >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought > > > >>Would having Dmitry's family over here, look better to a Bail judge, > >>about > >>flight risk? Any arrangments made to that affect? > >> > > I'd donate $20 to that. > > -- > Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are > going to burn in Hell forever. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 25 17:35:17 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Was That It? In-Reply-To: <20010725164941.Y14917@zork.net> References: <87y9pc6090.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010725164941.Y14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <87ae1s5xyy.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "SDS" == Seth David Schoen writes: Me> So, you said there'd be an announce by 5PM. Was the one about Me> meeting with the US Attorney it? SDS> I'm sure that's the expected announcement. Cool! That means I can get up from the computer and go to the bathroom, now. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From rabbi at quickie.net Wed Jul 25 17:38:58 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit In-Reply-To: <3B5F50A8.9742DD66@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Message-ID: boycottadobe.com is taking donations to Dmitry. (Accepting paypal to dmitry@shmoo.com.) I had suggested to Pablos that we get this money to Oxana. --Len. On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Seth Johnson wrote: > > So would I. Even up it to $40 as a gesture to encourage participation. > > And I'm not rich. Measly temp worker. > > The money's there as soon as this idea moves. > > Ben Ford wrote: > > > > I'd donate $20 to that. > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From nbhs2 at i-2000.com Wed Jul 25 17:43:37 2001 From: nbhs2 at i-2000.com (Michael Scottaline) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit In-Reply-To: <0107251726400D.14496@stumpy> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725171402.0341c278@pop3.norton.antivirus> <0107251726400D.14496@stumpy> Message-ID: <20010725204337.5bb8618d.nbhs2@i-2000.com> On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 17:26:40 -0700 Roger Kramer insightfully noted: > On Wednesday 25 July 2001 17:15, Will Doherty wrote: > > The initial inquiry EFF offered to Dmitry's family > > regarding travelling here to the United States was not > > accepted. It may be that if Dmitry is held for a > > longer time, his family will want to come visit, > > but the latest I heard, they are not eager, perhaps > > quite understandably, to enter the U.S. > > > > Yes, QUITE understandably. ...Rather like getting an invitation from > Beijing > to go present a paper on the merits of free speech and a free Taiwan. > > roger ====================================== Interesting how the mainstream press in the US has made *headline* news of the arrest of American base scholars in China recently, but so little mention of Sklyarov's situation. Mike -- "Many loads of beer were brought. What disorder, whoring, fighting, killing, and dreadful idolatry took place there." Baltasar Rusow, Estonia, mid 16th Century From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 25 17:42:24 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Was That It? In-Reply-To: <87ae1s5xyy.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 05:35:17PM -0700 References: <87y9pc6090.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010725164941.Y14917@zork.net> <87ae1s5xyy.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010725174224.H14917@zork.net> Klepht writes: > Cool! That means I can get up from the computer and go to the > bathroom, now. Ditto! Plus, Bay Area Free Sklyarov (can anybody thing of a catchy acronym? "San Francisco Free Sklyarov"'s acronym is a palindrome) is meeting in about two hours. So all of you around here who want to talk strategy and protests should get ready for that. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From jstyre at jstyre.com Wed Jul 25 17:45:40 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Will and his evolving sig In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725140001.03001fd8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010725174149.00b08d58@earthlink.net> At 02:00 PM 7/25/2001 -0700, Will Doherty wrote: >Free Dmitry and Reform Section 1201 of the DMCA, > >Will Doherty >Online Activist / Media Relations >Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) >Web http://www.eff.org Yo, Will. Not trying to make your sig longer, but I have it on pretty good authority that EFF ain't fond of 1202 either. -J -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 25 17:51:27 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Was That It? In-Reply-To: <20010725174224.H14917@zork.net> References: <87y9pc6090.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010725164941.Y14917@zork.net> <87ae1s5xyy.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010725174224.H14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <87zo9s4ink.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "SDS" == Seth David Schoen writes: SDS> Plus, Bay Area Free Sklyarov (can anybody thing of a catchy SDS> acronym? "San Francisco Free Sklyarov"'s acronym is a SDS> palindrome) is meeting in about two hours. Hrmph! I thought "The Ad Hoc Committee Yadda Yadda" was pretty good. AHCFDS _is_ a lame acronym, though. Hell, at least it's not Cyrillic. Svobodu Dima, ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From jono at microshaft.org Wed Jul 25 17:57:05 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Public Library of Science Prepares to Boycott Journals with Launch of Publishing Effort Message-ID: <20010725175704.J17700@networkcommand.com> Off slashdot: Genomeweb reports that scientists are gearing up for the Sept 1 boycott of science publishers, because only two publishers (Genome Biology and PubMedCenteral) have met the demands of open and copyright free access to science articles. As part of this process they're developing a means to publish their own journal articles." http://www.genomeweb.com/articles/view-article.asp?Article=200172219199 From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Wed Jul 25 18:05:34 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Was That It? In-Reply-To: <87zo9s4ink.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: On 25 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "SDS" == Seth David Schoen writes: > SDS> Plus, Bay Area Free Sklyarov (can anybody thing of a catchy > SDS> acronym? "San Francisco Free Sklyarov"'s acronym is a > SDS> palindrome) is meeting in about two hours. > Hrmph! I thought "The Ad Hoc Committee Yadda Yadda" was pretty good. > AHCFDS _is_ a lame acronym, though. Hell, at least it's not Cyrillic. Sklyarov Protest And Negotiation Kommittee perhaps? -- "Free Dmitry, Svobodu Dime, Liberu Dimon, Ree-fay Mitry-day, Reform Sections 6, 84, 1200-1299 And Any Prime-Numbered One Of The DMCA, Spank All Congressmen, Love Thy Neighbor, Quit Using Silly Sigs, and Get Me a Beer, Goddammit." Alex Fabrikant alexf@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 18:13:41 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:21 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit In-Reply-To: <00f801c1156a$2c4ac9a0$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: <20010726011341.46892.qmail@web13903.mail.yahoo.com> adobe should offer to fly the family here and pay for their essentials for the duration of this diaster, however it plays out --- roylo wrote: > Same goes for me > but where I do give the money to? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Derek Gladding" > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 4:41 PM > Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US > Visit > > > > I would also be willing to contribute to this > cause. A quick > > hunt on Travelocity gives a price of about $700 > for 1 adult + > > 2 children from Moscow to SFO round-trip. > > > > We should be able to raise that much. > > > > I'll offer to put $50 in the pot. > > > > - Derek > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > > [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of > Ben Ford > > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 2:57 PM > > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US > Visit > > > > > > Seth Johnson wrote: > > > > >See, this is a <> idea. > > > > > >What about we get up a fund and offer her and her > child a round trip with > > >an indefinite stay? > > > > > >Suggest she visit some of the demonstrations. > And let the media know > > >she'll be there. We could incrementally have > different demonstration > > >sites scare up funds for her to visit them. > > > > > >This is such a great idea. > > > > > >Seth Johnson > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: "Charles Eakins" > > >Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:18:03 -0700 > > >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought > > > > > >>Would having Dmitry's family over here, look > better to a Bail judge, > > >>about > > >>flight risk? Any arrangments made to that > affect? > > >> > > > > I'd donate $20 to that. > > > > -- > > Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs > as we do, you are > > going to burn in Hell forever. > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From declan at well.com Wed Jul 25 18:05:19 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Will and his evolving sig In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010725174149.00b08d58@earthlink.net>; from jstyre@jstyre.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 05:45:40PM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725140001.03001fd8@pop3.norton.antivirus> <4.3.2.7.2.20010725174149.00b08d58@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20010725210519.A25814@cluebot.com> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 05:45:40PM -0700, James S. Tyre wrote: > At 02:00 PM 7/25/2001 -0700, Will Doherty wrote: > > > >Free Dmitry and Reform Section 1201 of the DMCA, > > > >Will Doherty > >Online Activist / Media Relations > >Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) > >Web http://www.eff.org > > Yo, Will. > > Not trying to make your sig longer, but I have it on pretty good authority > that EFF ain't fond of 1202 either. Right, but are they working with a congresscriter to repeal it? Boucher is just talking (so far, at least) about 1201, and EFF will want to support that effort, I suspect. -Declan From sethf at sethf.com Wed Jul 25 18:22:36 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Libertarian anti-DMCA is fantasy In-Reply-To: <20010725200329.B24110@cluebot.com>; from declan@well.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 08:03:29PM -0400 References: <3B5F2ED9.448D70E6@sethf.com> <200107252335.QAA22855@shell3.ba.best.com> <20010725200329.B24110@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010725212236.A26607@sethf.com> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 08:03:29PM -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: > I've spoken with and interviewed representatives of the Competitive > Intelligence Institute and the Cato Institute and the Pacific Research > Institute (libertarian think tanks) and not one believes that what > Dmitry did should be a crime. Not a one of them has to raise a ton of money to run for office either. It is very, very, easy to say what you think your audience wants to hear, especially when those PR people know exactly what that interviewer would like to have presented as their stance. It is quite another to vote on a law knowing that a large amount of campaign contribution money is riding on that vote. And perhaps that leads to a re-thinking of one's convictions. Especially when there are plausible ways of coming to an ideological view that is in harmony with the money. It's happened many a time. > These groups are your natural allies, and frothing here against "those > evil libertarians" or whatever won't help them move from criticizing > the DMCA and Dmitry's arrest to participating in an active repeal/ > rewrite effort. I don't recall using the words you put in quotes. I do recall, however, one poster saying "Yes, this is a shameless plug for the Libertarian party". And then someone else who once was defended by the Cato Institute as a "libertarian journalist" under attack (http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/v22n4/crosshairs.pdf) chimed in. And this was at the same time as another person ranting "Feinstein is a socialist". Trying to use the DMCA and Dmitry's arrest as plugs for this sort of politicing doesn't help anyone. It's just attempting to hijack the efforts in the service of annoying proselytizing. Why? Because it does not solve the problem. The core is "What Is Property", and why. I was accused in trolling for asking how Declan can justify making his living from a government-granted monopoly on speech. But that's a true question. It's a deep issue. Copyright is a restriction on speech. It declares punishments for people who say things, merely on the basis that those things have been said by someone else. It says this speech is *owned*. It's a kind of property in itself. That's a very weird thing at heart. However, it's been in the Constitution from day 1, as a specific power of Congress. Once you accept speech can be a kind of property (even if an odd type of property), how far once goes to enforce those *property* *rights* is a question that has to deal with the implications of this type of property. In fact, the DMCA is Libertarianism in action. It's the government enforcing (intellectual) property rights on behalf of the owners of that property. No smiley. That's what it is. I'm not trying to argue against copyright _per se_. But once you've taken the step that people can be punished at all for what they say, just to support this property-right, increasing and extending those punishments follows the same path. Libertarians and similar, at least the ones posting here, do not seem to grasp this problem. Their replies boil down to "No, the line is *here*!" Why is it there? Do you have an explanation that works for copyright in the first place? Government-bad doesn't cut it. That's just demagoguery. I'll try to put it another way: If, as a purely ideological matter, you can swallow a restriction on a right to say the speech (i.e. to copy it), then it's not a big jump to an ideological justification to restricting speech about enabling people to copy that speech. If there ever were a lot of real Libertarian Party politicians trying to get a lot of money to seriously win a high office, I suspect they'd find proclaiming the property aspects very appealing. I believe the proselytizing that we saw today is at best extremely distracting noise, and worse, downright intellectually harmful to understanding and thinking about this issue. Hence my writing in opposition to it. But as always, feel free to consider this "typically, nonsense or otherwise not worth the time it takes to reply." -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From sean at thefreevoice.org Wed Jul 25 18:12:53 2001 From: sean at thefreevoice.org (Sean DuVally) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Any protests for Friday? Message-ID: So the EFF is meeting with the DOJ Friday, are there going to be any protests? http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010725_eff_sklyarov_announce. html Please check out The Free Voice at http://thefreevoice.org From izel at sulam.com Wed Jul 25 18:22:24 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology Message-ID: There was an earlier thread about this topic, which some of you might have missed. I believe it's important that many people read and contribute to this discussion, so I will summarize the points made earlier. Content providers and their infrastructure providing partners-in-crime are on a mission to desensitize the public to cryptographically encapsulated media. Part of this effort is to associate cryptographically encapsulated media with a bland, inoffensive, friendly term. This term is "copy protected media". "Copy protected media" has all kinds of unintended positive meanings that have to do with protecting the consumer. (From viruses, crackers, who knows what else?) If we allow this term to become a part of everyday lexicon, it will be that much more difficult to educate the public about the evils of the DMCA and of cryptographically encapsulated media. Therefore, we need to engage in acts of counter-terminology. We need to pick an alternative term that more accurately describes cryptographically encapsulated media for what it is: Media placed in a straightjacket so as to kidnap one's fair use rights. Suggestions so far are: 1) Copy controlled media 2) Usage controlled media 3) Crippled media (My suggestion) It has been said that "copy controlled media" is an unwise choice, because it frames the debate over media control in terms of copying, therefore piracy, which plays right into the hands of content providers. There are a whole bunch of fair use rights, copying being only one, therefore it may be unwise to make it a central theme of our counter-terminology. Comments, suggestions are very much welcome on this topic. Tell us which counter-term you like best, or weigh in with an alternative counter-term. Thanks, - izel From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 18:22:30 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Open Source Support Message-ID: <20010726012230.73340.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com> i do not remember who was querying about the open source community support? see this link for the 6333, including the who's who of open source: http://www.dibona.com/dmca/ thanks open source:) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Wed Jul 25 18:27:29 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Support - Norway References: <20010725233135.32368.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> <019101c11562$d9ef4700$0300000a@broadpark.no> Message-ID: <02c401c11572$274dcdf0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, Eli Therese! > I was wondering wether anyone knows of support groups in Norway? > > Since I live in Oslo it's naturally a little difficult for me to take part > in groups in the US. As everyone is aware, protests are making by individuals, not EFF officials and join worldwide movement. If Norway will join protest (no matter, you gather 100 people or 10), this can help Dmitry a lot. AFAIK, Russia and Israil joined U.S. actions for Dmitry releasing. While seeing RMS, esr and Linus Torwalds supporting our movement ( http://www.dibona.com/dmca/ ), I expect the whole Earth to put pressure on FBI or Shapiro. - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From doug at mcnaught.org Wed Jul 25 18:32:43 2001 From: doug at mcnaught.org (Doug McNaught) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Open Source Support In-Reply-To: alfee cube's message of "Wed, 25 Jul 2001 18:22:30 -0700 (PDT)" References: <20010726012230.73340.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: alfee cube writes: > i do not remember who was querying about the open > source community support? see this link for the 6333, > including the who's who of open source: > > http://www.dibona.com/dmca/ Kind of interesting that RMS hasn't signed it (at least he isn't in the luminaries list or the first 200 visible signatories). He's certainly made his position clear on the DMCA... -Doug -- Free Dmitry Sklyarov! http://www.freesklyarov.org/ We will return to our regularly scheduled signature shortly. From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 25 18:37:17 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Open Source Support In-Reply-To: ; from doug@mcnaught.org on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 09:32:43PM -0400 References: <20010726012230.73340.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010725183717.L14917@zork.net> Doug McNaught writes: > Kind of interesting that RMS hasn't signed it (at least he isn't in > the luminaries list or the first 200 visible signatories). You'll find a comment from him featured prominently at http://www.stallman.org/ although it's moderately out of date now. -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Wed Jul 25 18:38:34 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] On the Case (Please read it and give me a feedback/input) References: <009901c114f2$3891b980$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: <02f501c11573$b39e6890$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, roylo! I think, that other countries also can make big actions about human rights being ignored in United States. This, together with anti-DMCA actions in all States, can really shift U.S. government. This is my view from Moscow. Also think, that EFF is closer to the subject and what happening in States, their opinion have priority. We must just give an ideas, that will be sorted by EFF. - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ == == == After talking with some friends of mine, and long discussions; here is what I came up with. Even, I feel that US has no right arresting Sklyarov; but under DMCA the FBI "did" have the right to arrest Sklyarov. So, we pretty much don't have a case against the DoJ and the chances of Sklyarov getting the jail time is high. (I don't like this anymore then you guys do; but that is what might happen) However, DMCA itself at least has two problems - 1. it conflicts with people's constitutional right to free speech 2. it prevents the publish of weak point of some "security" tools, and thus encourages snake oil, and deteriorates info security in the long term. Now look into the 1st problem: It is possible that DMCA can be declared as unconstitutional, for those of you have taken US Gov't/History classes, probably know that "Any law that is declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court has to go away" (i.e. DMCA dies) But, that will takes a few months for it to happen. And a friend of mine, suggest to start the protest base on 2 points 1.) Human Rights 2.) Constitutional Rights Because the general public won't know anything about encryption, but people in this country are very sensitive towards; Human Rights and Constitutional Rights issues. Another things is we NEED large crowd for the protest. 'cause the US gov't isn't like adobe, it take larger crowd to move them. Our directions need to be change, because our targe is no long adobe. [it is in the hands of DoJ now] (Like an old Chinese saying, "You have to take different medicine, for different sickness") Please send me a feedback if you have any additional ideals. And for the people who lives in the Bay, I would like to know how many of you can attend the protest on Sat. and how many friends can you bring. 'cause if the crowd is too small my friends suggestion to push it back until we can get larger crowd. (What do you guys think?>) From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 18:40:45 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Open Source Support In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010726014045.30459.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> let's wait alittle on rms:) --- Doug McNaught wrote: > alfee cube writes: > > > i do not remember who was querying about the open > > source community support? see this link for the > 6333, > > including the who's who of open source: > > > > http://www.dibona.com/dmca/ > > Kind of interesting that RMS hasn't signed it (at > least he isn't in > the luminaries list or the first 200 visible > signatories). > > He's certainly made his position clear on the > DMCA... > > -Doug > -- > Free Dmitry Sklyarov! > http://www.freesklyarov.org/ > > We will return to our regularly scheduled signature > shortly. > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From freesk at hackhawk.net Wed Jul 25 18:44:28 2001 From: freesk at hackhawk.net (hackhawk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another LA Protest. - & UNSUBSCRIBE!! Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010725184240.00a5c540@localhost> OK,, I started reading emails at about 2:30pm. It's now 6:20pm and I'm FINALLY finished. Sorry, but I just can't stay on the general mailing list anymore as I have other duties to attend to. My boss and I approached Dmitry after his speech at Defcon and discussed potentially hiring him and/or his company to help test the security of one of our products. Thanks to the FBI/Adobe I need to conduct that research/testing on my own. :-( I will however continue to host the local Los Angeles web site and mailing list. I will continue to be an active organizer of events in that area. As far as our next L.A. protest, I don't believe we've decided on any specific date yet. I did see a couple of interesting suggestions though. We should plan on one or both of them. 1) Plan a protest/rally on Monday the 30th. I see at least one other local group planning to rally on that day. I think I saw suggestions of rallying EVERY monday. 2) Plan a centralized (Perhaps Washington D.C.) protest where we ALL attempt to reach one area on August 15th. With that I'll be signing off this list. See you at the local LA site (http://hackhawk.net) - hh At 05:07 PM 7/25/01 -0700, Victor Piterbarg wrote: > Hi Everybody, > > How about getting together in LA again. I missed the first LA protest, > because I attended the one in San Jose. I already emailed 'hackhawk' about > organizing something, but he must be out today or something, 'cause I don't > see him on the list and he hasn't responded yet. Anyway, if we can > synchornize something with the Bay Area people again, I think that would be > excellent. What's the interest/availability like? Thanks. > > -Victor _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From ausage at ausage.com Wed Jul 25 18:43:43 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] United IT Workers Union? In-Reply-To: <20010725130713.K14160@networkcommand.com> References: <20010725173309.37155.qmail@web9607.mail.yahoo.com> <20010725130713.K14160@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <01072521434300.03075@frankie> On July 25, 2001 04:07 pm, Jon O . wrote: > This is a good idea. We need to get the Open Source people and > Alan Cox behind it. We need a kind of United IT Workers Union real > quick. > > There is a mailing list here: > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/IT_Union > > Sign up. We need to organize on a larger scale. > Can a "boss" join your union? Perhaps "Guild" might be a better word. -- Andrew Lawrence Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 18:54:23 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Was That It? In-Reply-To: <20010725174224.H14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010726015423.61414.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> LOL --- Seth David Schoen wrote: > Klepht writes: > > > Cool! That means I can get up from the computer > and go to the > > bathroom, now. > > Ditto! > > Plus, Bay Area Free Sklyarov (can anybody thing of a > catchy acronym? > "San Francisco Free Sklyarov"'s acronym is a > palindrome) is meeting in > about two hours. So all of you around here who want > to talk strategy > and protests should get ready for that. > > -- > Seth David Schoen | Its really > terrible when FBI arrested > Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who > visited USA with peacefull > down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- > to share his knowledge with > http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american > nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From schoen at loyalty.org Wed Jul 25 18:55:45 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Open Source Support In-Reply-To: ; from doug@mcnaught.org on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 09:32:43PM -0400 References: <20010726012230.73340.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010725185545.M14917@zork.net> Doug McNaught writes: > Kind of interesting that RMS hasn't signed it (at least he isn't in > the luminaries list or the first 200 visible signatories). > > He's certainly made his position clear on the DMCA... I just remembered that he also does not use the web. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From proclus at iname.com Wed Jul 25 18:56:14 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] broaden the movement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107260156.f6Q1uH205802@moerbeke> On 25 Jul, Izel Sulam wrote: > proclus@iname.com proclus@iname.com wrote: > >>Let's boycott all media with copy protection that counters fair use. >>This would include eBooks, and DVD movies, as well as some future plans >>from Microsoft, and I'm sure that the people here could think of more >>examples. > > I have two things to say about this idea. > > First, it's a good idea, but not yet at the correct location in our > priority queue. Thanks, and good point. Let's have a general boycott as soon as Dmitry is free, if not before. > I suggest that we pick a counter-term to refer to cryptographically > encapsulated products that prevent fair use. I suggest "crippled media". It > is sufficiently unpleasant and politically incorrect, that if we say it > often enough and loudly enough, Microsoft and Adobe and whoever else will > do everything in their power to ensure that their product lineup does not > include "crippled media" and products that produce or play "crippled > media". Try saying it. Just pronouncing the phrase makes one squirm. There > are so many unpleasant associations involved, it's not even funny. I find > it quite delightful myself. I'm afraid that, like the term sheeple, it is far too unpleasant. Perhaps if we coupled the term in a yoke, it would work, like this. "Please join us in boycotting these products which have been _unfairly_ crippled in order to extinquish your fair use rights." eBooks DVD movies etc. Thanks for your attention to this idea. We are flailing about here, because the freedom of Dmitry now seems to be a little out of our hands. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > > And, of course, it's a very honest term. "Copy protected media" doesn't > protect anyone or anything (except, possibly, corporate profits). "Crippled > media" however, cripples fair use rights, which is the main motivation > behind cryptographic encapsulation. I find it much more accurate and > descriptive. > > If we make "crippled media" a part of mainstream lexicon, then I strongly > believe that all kinds of desirable consequences will follow. > > Comments, suggestions welcome. > - izel > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From proclus at iname.com Wed Jul 25 18:55:57 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Open Source Support In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107260156.f6Q1u1205794@moerbeke> On 25 Jul, Doug McNaught wrote: > alfee cube writes: > >> i do not remember who was querying about the open >> source community support? see this link for the 6333, >> including the who's who of open source: >> >> http://www.dibona.com/dmca/ > > Kind of interesting that RMS hasn't signed it (at least he isn't in > the luminaries list or the first 200 visible signatories). > I'm pretty sure that this happens because of the rift between the Open Source Initiative and the Free Software Foundation. > He's certainly made his position clear on the DMCA... Yes indeed. I really loved his globalization speeches, where he talks about the big picture. Copyright and Globalization in the Age of Computer Networks, given at MIT. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/audio/audio.html#MIT2001 Just in case, you haven't heard it yet. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > > -Doug -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From proclus at iname.com Wed Jul 25 18:56:06 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] List of companys that should be boycotted, for supporting the DMCA. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107260156.f6Q1u9205798@moerbeke> On 25 Jul, Charles Eakins wrote: > List of companys that should be boycotted, for supporting the DMCA. They > are members of the BSA which lobbied hard to get this bill passed. > That is too severe and unfocussed. It would be better to focus on the individual products that have been unfairly crippled and strait-jacketed against fair use. I know that there are people working for some of these listed corporations that now realize that DMCA was a bad idea. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > > Adobe Systems > Apple Computer > Filemaker > Autodesk > Bentley Systems > CNC Software/Mastercam. > Macromedia > Microsoft > Symantec > UGS > BSA Policy Council > > Compaq > Dell > Entrust > IBM > Intel > Intuit > Network Associates > Novell > Sybase > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Wed Jul 25 18:59:00 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Izel Sulam wrote: > 1) Copy controlled media > 2) Usage controlled media > 3) Crippled media (My suggestion) > Comments, suggestions are very much welcome on this topic. Tell us which > counter-term you like best, or weigh in with an alternative counter-term. I want to add, pre-emptively, that my problem with the term "copy protection" is that it is imprecise. To me, this is not a question of coming up with an emotionally charged or frightening term for DRM, but for the "right" one. The reason I like something like "usage control" is that it makes it clear that the consumer's actions are being regulated. It focusses on the subject rather than the object, which we need to do when the subject is being screwed to protect the object. Also, usage control is relevant to just about anyone who wants to watch movies or listen to music or read books. But your average person is not going to see that something called "copyright control" really applies to them. > Thanks, > - izel -S From wild at eff.org Wed Jul 25 18:59:37 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Intellectual Property. In-Reply-To: References: <3B5F3AD8.C7BD9876@sethf.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725185914.052dc780@pop3.norton.antivirus> Brilliant! :-) At 03:33 PM 7/25/2001 -0700, Austin Hook wrote: >My rights and freedoms are a product of moral, ethical, and philosophical >thought. They represent the intellectual property that I want most want >to keep secure. > >The Bill of Rights is my protection. > >The DMCA is a circumvention device. > >Austin Hook > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From proclus at iname.com Wed Jul 25 19:08:25 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Is the Open Source movement at risk from the DM CA? In-Reply-To: <20010725143601.C16102@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <200107260208.f6Q28S205814@moerbeke> On 25 Jul, Jon O . wrote: > > Ok, so we need to get the Open Source people a FAQ or > quick sheet on this so they help... > > I'd never read this. Crazy... It's really simple and quite germaine. Software houses like Adobe and M$ could protect their file formats with anti-circumvention measures as in DVD's and eBooks, so that it would be illegal to reverse engineer them. Coupled with an on-line authentication system like Passport, free software could be entirely marginalized. In such an eventuality, you can kiss fair use goodbye. Then, there's UTICA... Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > > > On 25-Jul-2001, J.E. Cripps wrote: >> >> >> > Is the Open Source movement at risk from the DMCA? >> >> > Microsoft Word contains a proprietary file format. Open >> > Source developers often work to reverse engineer this >> > format in order to create compatible products. Star >> > Office is a Word alternative and can read these word >> > documents. Is it only a matter of time before MS says >> > you are circumventing a protection? >> >> > Anyone care to comment? >> >> >> "A subtle danger is that the DMCA gives companies effective permanent >> patents on file formats. What if the next MS Word format were to claim >> DMCA protection because it could be used to "Protect Copyright"? All MS >> have to do is add a "Do not copy" flag to a Word document and we could >> say goodbye to Star Office etc. I wonder if the DMCA could be applied >> to something like an authentication protocol - MS Passport for example?" >> --Richard Corfield, on c.o.l.a., c. July 21, 2001 > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From izel at sulam.com Wed Jul 25 19:09:58 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology Message-ID: We just had a suggestion for a new counter-term: Limited Rights Media I personally don't like it very much, because it sounds similar to things like Limited Run Movies, Limited Edition CD's, and so on and so forth, as if it has a desirable exclusivity about it. And as we all know, cryptographically encapsulated media is not at all desirable, and if it is exclusive at all, it has been made so only artificially. These are just my opinions, let me know if any of you disagree. - izel From ausage at ausage.com Wed Jul 25 19:08:34 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072522083400.03127@frankie> On July 25, 2001 09:22 pm, Izel Sulam wrote: > 1) Copy controlled media > 2) Usage controlled media > 3) Crippled media (My suggestion) Personally I like the term cripple as in crippleware, cripple book, cripple VD, All not, these are not copy controlled, or usage controlled but copy disabled and usage disabled media. Perhaps we should be PC and called them "challenged" media. -- Andrew Lawrence Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 From jenn at simegen.com Wed Jul 25 19:17:51 2001 From: jenn at simegen.com (jenn@simegen.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? References: Message-ID: <3B5F7DCF.1030302@simegen.com> > After talking with some friends of mine, and long discussions; here > is what I came up with. > Even, I feel that US has no right arresting Sklyarov; but under > DMCA the FBI "did" have the right to arrest Sklyarov. > So, we pretty much don't have a case against the DoJ and the > chances of Sklyarov getting the jail time is high. > (I don't like this anymore then you guys do; but that is what > might happen) Um. What did Sklyarov do *IN THE USA* that was against US law? As I understand it, he did something *in Russia* that is against US law, but NOT against Russian law. As I understand it, all he did in the USA that was even remotely potentially 'wrong' was present an academic paper. Jenn V. -- "Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer. jenn@simegen.com Jenn Vesperman http://www.simegen.com/~jenn/ From honeypot at online.no Wed Jul 25 19:23:22 2001 From: honeypot at online.no (Eli Therese) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:23 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? References: <3B5F7DCF.1030302@simegen.com> Message-ID: <008d01c11579$f1a91260$0300000a@broadpark.no> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: 26. juli 2001 04:17 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? > > > After talking with some friends of mine, and long discussions; here > > is what I came up with. > > Even, I feel that US has no right arresting Sklyarov; but under > > DMCA the FBI "did" have the right to arrest Sklyarov. > > So, we pretty much don't have a case against the DoJ and the > > chances of Sklyarov getting the jail time is high. > > (I don't like this anymore then you guys do; but that is what > > might happen) > > Um. What did Sklyarov do *IN THE USA* that was against US law? > > As I understand it, he did something *in Russia* that is against > US law, but NOT against Russian law. > > As I understand it, all he did in the USA that was even remotely > potentially 'wrong' was present an academic paper. His program was sold over the internet. And it was also available for US citizens, so they bought it. I guess that's partially why he was arrested. T. > > > Jenn V. > -- > "Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture > you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer. > > jenn@simegen.com Jenn Vesperman http://www.simegen.com/~jenn/ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Wed Jul 25 19:34:21 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-terminology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I forgot to add: CHIP is an undesirable name for the law-enforcement arm of DRM policies. I mean, since DRM is going to require a *chip* embedded in each of your things to ensure that you are behaving properly. Too much opportunity for slogans there---CHIP in your TV, CHIP on your shoulder (or _over_ your shoulder,) etc. -S [3Y3 AM P0NCH, th3 `l33t CHiPs WIT3 HAT HAX0R, Ph33r m3!!!!1] From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 19:41:05 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Web site and 'writing your congressman' (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010725164646.009e8360@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: <20010726024105.87065.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com> it is sad for america that individuals are taught or otherwise convinced that when they speak out in opposition to authority they somehow are a detriment to the system - nothing could be further from the truth!!! it is vital to our nation and democracy that individuals speak out loud and clear on issues that concern and bother them!! if the legislators get a law wrong, as in the case of the DMCA they should hear about it LOUD and clear and continuously until they fix the law!!! --- David Honig wrote: > At 02:25 PM 7/25/01 -0700, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: > >Anyone want to elaborate on this? > > > >pablos. > > > > Well, every shmoo who has posted to *this* list is > on a List too. > > And all the meatspace protesters have nice > photo-portraits in various > offices too. > > Depending on the interest/abilities of the > Listkeepers, all the > *subscribers* of this list are on a List as well (is > Majordomo, etc. > perfect?) Heh, *multiple* lists. Shoot, there's > probably a list just for people who are on multiple > lists. > > Big deal. > > If you're concerned, put on those groucho glasses > and go to an internet cafe > and browse the web version. Via an anonymous proxy. > > > Did you remember to play Spot the Fed at the > rallies? :-) > > "Paranoia is awareness" > > > >---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > >Date: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 7:07 AM -0500 > >From: Charles Marcus Durrett > >To: "pablos@kadrevis.com" > >Subject: The Web site and 'writing your > congressman' > > > > > >If you write your congressman, and especially if > you write the security > >organizations and enforcement agencies, your name > will go on a list. It > >would be wise to preserve a core cadre who had not > identified themselves as > >troublemakers ahead of time. > >As in "This is the FBI! Drop that debugger or we > open fire." > > > >Chuck > > > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : > http://explorer.msn.com > > > >---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- > > > > > >-- > >Pablos Kadrevis > >pablos@kadrevis.com > >415.420.3806 > >www.shmoo.com/~pablos > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From dlefevre at iupui.edu Wed Jul 25 19:48:30 2001 From: dlefevre at iupui.edu (D. C. LeFevre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] US law break? (from digest) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010725214331.02634da8@imap0.iupui.edu> At 07:36 PM 7/25/2001 -0700, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: 26. juli 2001 04:17 >Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? > >His program was sold over the internet. >And it was also available for US citizens, so they bought it. > >I guess that's partially why he was arrested. When France or some other E.U. country tries this, the U.S. gets angry! In those cases, we claim that they are intruding on our jurisdiction and that laws that should apply depend on where the server is housed. Of course, in pure American fashion, we forget we made this assertion when the tables are turned. BTW, the E.U. no longer takes this stance. They now believe the French anti-Nazi Yahoo ruling was incorrect. -- davey **Free Dmitry Sklyarov!! Don't know the story? Ask, I'll send you the info.** D. C. LeFevre Indiana University Purdue University Indianapolis School of Informatics New Media Program http://newmedia.iupui.edu http://informatics.iupui.edu From edwardsj1 at tastytronic.net Wed Jul 25 19:54:56 2001 From: edwardsj1 at tastytronic.net (Jack Edwards) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Please no flames for what i'm about to propose... In-Reply-To: <01072514130904.14496@stumpy>; from krw5@qwest.net on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 02:13:09PM -0700 References: <01072514130904.14496@stumpy> Message-ID: <20010725215456.B18617@tastytronic.net> Quoting Roger Kramer: > Might the NRA, yes Europe, I said National Rifle Assoc, be interested in > this? Are there any card carrying members out there that want to comment? > They have deep pockets and most of the Republican party. I happen to carry such a card, and am more than willing to write to Wayne, Charlton, and anyone else who might listen to my thoughts on this issue. One thing to keep in mind though, is that the latest issue of "America's First Freedom" had a picture of John Ashcroft on the cover, however, he is quoted in the issue as saying: "...when I was sworn in as Attornet General of the United States, I took an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution. That responsibility applies to all parts of the Constitution..." If I can convince someone higher up that is is truly a Constitutional issue they might just listen. -jack -- ------------------------------------------------------ Jack D. Edwards: edwardsj1@tastytronic.net User of Free Software: http://tastytronic.net/ufo Aspiring Tech Writer: http://flynn.zork.net/~edwardsj1 From jenn at simegen.com Wed Jul 25 19:55:58 2001 From: jenn at simegen.com (jenn@simegen.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? References: <3B5F7DCF.1030302@simegen.com> <008d01c11579$f1a91260$0300000a@broadpark.no> Message-ID: <3B5F86BE.3090902@simegen.com> Eli Therese wrote: > Jenn V wrote: > >> Um. What did Sklyarov do *IN THE USA* that was against US law? >> >> As I understand it, he did something *in Russia* that is against >> US law, but NOT against Russian law. >> >> As I understand it, all he did in the USA that was even remotely >> potentially 'wrong' was present an academic paper. > > His program was sold over the internet. > And it was also available for US citizens, so they bought it. Yes, but he still didn't do anything *in the USA* that was wrong. The US citizens who bought it might (or might not) have done something wrong. But by the logic that 'he broke US law because it was available to US citizens', I have to take down my website lest I breach Taliban laws in Afghanistan by having photographs of myself with a bare head available to Afghan citizens. So: what did he do IN THE USA that was against US law? And if the answer is 'nothing'... then why the hell is he in prison? (And if the answer is 'nothing', then I'm suddenly scared of ever setting foot in the US...) Jenn V. -- "Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer. jenn@simegen.com Jenn Vesperman http://www.simegen.com/~jenn/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 20:02:03 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? In-Reply-To: <3B5F7DCF.1030302@simegen.com> Message-ID: <20010726030203.90778.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com> that is about it jenn. there are some folk who think it is cute to try and repress dmitry's ability to communicate with others his knowledge. because they say that "other" may do something "bad" with dmitry's knowledge - like watch the planet of the apes or read an ebook. so the model they are using is one of kill the messenger because his message may be used by another in ways we do not approve of. i cannot understand why dmitry cannot communicate his knowledge or not communicate his knowledge as he sees fit, period? if someone ask me to choose between surrendering my abiltiy to communicate with other or fox's ability to prevent some "other" from watching planet of the apes, it's a no brainer! --- jenn@simegen.com wrote: > > > After talking with some friends of mine, and long > discussions; here > > is what I came up with. > > Even, I feel that US has no right arresting > Sklyarov; but under > > DMCA the FBI "did" have the right to arrest > Sklyarov. > > So, we pretty much don't have a case against the > DoJ and the > > chances of Sklyarov getting the jail time is > high. > > (I don't like this anymore then you guys do; but > that is what > > might happen) > > Um. What did Sklyarov do *IN THE USA* that was > against US law? > > As I understand it, he did something *in Russia* > that is against > US law, but NOT against Russian law. > > As I understand it, all he did in the USA that was > even remotely > potentially 'wrong' was present an academic paper. > > > > > Jenn V. > -- > "Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section > of geek culture > you miss out on by being a geek?" - > Dancer. > > jenn@simegen.com Jenn Vesperman > http://www.simegen.com/~jenn/ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sklyarov at lethe.com Wed Jul 25 20:06:31 2001 From: sklyarov at lethe.com (Kevin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? References: <3B5F7DCF.1030302@simegen.com> <008d01c11579$f1a91260$0300000a@broadpark.no> <3B5F86BE.3090902@simegen.com> Message-ID: <009501c1157f$f96d6310$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> > (And if the answer is 'nothing', then I'm suddenly scared of > ever setting foot in the US...) > It isn't *quite* as bad as 'nothing', but nearly. He threatened the revenue stream of a powerful American company. Free Dmitry you dumb son-of-a-bitch. - Joe Pesci, Lethal Weapon 2 From mark at blorch.org Wed Jul 25 20:12:27 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another LA Protest. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072520122708.19049@bilbo.blorch.org> I think Hackhawk is bone tired and trying to snooze right now. And deservingly so. I'm hoping we'll link up with the Bay Area folk before long. But I'm not sure anybody's settled on a definite date yet. Are you on the LA mailing list? Head over to: www.hackhawk.net to join up if you haven't already. Mark On Wednesday 25 July 2001 17:07, Victor Piterbarg wrote: > Hi Everybody, > > How about getting together in LA again. I missed the first LA protest, > because I attended the one in San Jose. I already emailed 'hackhawk' about > organizing something, but he must be out today or something, 'cause I don't > see him on the list and he hasn't responded yet. Anyway, if we can > synchornize something with the Bay Area people again, I think that would be > excellent. What's the interest/availability like? Thanks. > > -Victor > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From eric at tully.com Wed Jul 25 20:11:24 2001 From: eric at tully.com (Eric Tully) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? In-Reply-To: <3B5F7DCF.1030302@simegen.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010725222510.03691c40@ideasuite.com> I'm finding that some people think that the FBI had a right to arrest him (under the currently flawed DMCA) and other people think that they had no right to arrest him. If the FBI had no right to arrest him, then this wouldn't be a programming issue. It wouldn't be a free speech issue. It wouldn't even be a DMCA issue. If the FBI had no right to arrest him, then any decent lawyer would simply stand in front of the judge and say, "I have tons of precedent showing that Russians aren't subject to American laws, you have to let him go." And the judge would. But I don't think that's the case. Columbian drug lords sell cocaine to middle men who bring it to the US and because of extradition laws, we drag the kingpins here and try them in American courts (when we can catch them!). The fact that they were in Columbia when they broke American law was irrelevent. They did something that affected Americans. I think the key is that he broke American law by distributing it on the Internet and then he set foot on American soil. I mean, if you're going to break American law in a way that "harms" American interests, I think you *should* be arrested if you come to American soil. (Don't get me wrong, I don't think he harmed Adobe and I think the DMCA is unjust legislation that should be repealed. But I don't think that the arrest was illegal under current law.) I know people will disagree with me on this. I'd be interested in a lawyer's comment. - Eric At 12:17 PM 7/26/01 +1000, you wrote: > > After talking with some friends of mine, and long discussions; here > > is what I came up with. > > Even, I feel that US has no right arresting Sklyarov; but under > > DMCA the FBI "did" have the right to arrest Sklyarov. > > So, we pretty much don't have a case against the DoJ and the > > chances of Sklyarov getting the jail time is high. > > (I don't like this anymore then you guys do; but that is what > > might happen) > >Um. What did Sklyarov do *IN THE USA* that was against US law? > >As I understand it, he did something *in Russia* that is against >US law, but NOT against Russian law. > >As I understand it, all he did in the USA that was even remotely >potentially 'wrong' was present an academic paper. > > > > >Jenn V. >-- > "Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture > you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer. > >jenn@simegen.com Jenn Vesperman http://www.simegen.com/~jenn/ > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From mark at blorch.org Wed Jul 25 20:13:12 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? In-Reply-To: <3B5F7DCF.1030302@simegen.com> References: <3B5F7DCF.1030302@simegen.com> Message-ID: <01072520131209.19049@bilbo.blorch.org> On Wednesday 25 July 2001 19:17, jenn@simegen.com wrote: > > After talking with some friends of mine, and long discussions; here > > is what I came up with. > > Even, I feel that US has no right arresting Sklyarov; but under > > DMCA the FBI "did" have the right to arrest Sklyarov. > > So, we pretty much don't have a case against the DoJ and the > > chances of Sklyarov getting the jail time is high. > > (I don't like this anymore then you guys do; but that is what > > might happen) > > Um. What did Sklyarov do *IN THE USA* that was against US law? > > As I understand it, he did something *in Russia* that is against > US law, but NOT against Russian law. > > As I understand it, all he did in the USA that was even remotely > potentially 'wrong' was present an academic paper. Apparently that has become wrong in the USSA... Mark From jono at microshaft.org Wed Jul 25 20:16:44 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? In-Reply-To: <009501c1157f$f96d6310$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7>; from sklyarov@lethe.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 08:06:31PM -0700 References: <3B5F7DCF.1030302@simegen.com> <008d01c11579$f1a91260$0300000a@broadpark.no> <3B5F86BE.3090902@simegen.com> <009501c1157f$f96d6310$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> Message-ID: <20010725201644.B19484@networkcommand.com> I did hear that he was passing out copies of some software after the speech. This is UNCONFIRMED. On 25-Jul-2001, Kevin wrote: > > (And if the answer is 'nothing', then I'm suddenly scared of > > ever setting foot in the US...) > > > > It isn't *quite* as bad as 'nothing', but nearly. He threatened the revenue > stream of a powerful American company. > > > Free Dmitry you dumb son-of-a-bitch. > - Joe Pesci, Lethal Weapon 2 > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From mark at blorch.org Wed Jul 25 20:17:02 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Non-US programmers (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3635089.996078812@[10.0.1.220]> References: <3635089.996078812@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <0107252017020A.19049@bilbo.blorch.org> On Wednesday 25 July 2001 16:33, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: > Here's someone who needs some feedback about how to help. > > pablos. > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > Date: Thursday, July 26, 2001 9:28 AM +1000 > From: "jenn@simegen.com" > To: "wtf@rejectmueller.com" > Subject: Non-US programmers > > I have been thinking about what those of us who do NOT live in the > USA can do. > > I assume that those of you who do live there are aware that most of > us (Open Source programmers, etc) are now wary of ever going to the > USA for any reason. You should be. I think, seriously, you should boycott us. Move software conventions out of the US. No conferences and such. I mean, you step over the line which you cannot know where it is, you could get "disappeared" by the FBI. Why risk it? Mark From kastlyn at unixtribe.net Wed Jul 25 20:19:09 2001 From: kastlyn at unixtribe.net (Kastlyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mail to Congress people In-Reply-To: <3635089.996078812@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: I'm willing to act as a mail-drop for anyone who would like to send a letter to Sen. Hatch. I could probably even, if several people write letters, just hand-deliver them to his Utah office, if people want their letters to get there REAL fast. =} -=Amie=- On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: > Here's someone who needs some feedback about how to help. > > pablos. > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > Date: Thursday, July 26, 2001 9:28 AM +1000 > From: "jenn@simegen.com" > To: "wtf@rejectmueller.com" > Subject: Non-US programmers > > I have been thinking about what those of us who do NOT live in the > USA can do. > > I assume that those of you who do live there are aware that most of > us (Open Source programmers, etc) are now wary of ever going to the > USA for any reason. > > I was wondering if there was someone in the US Congress who needs > this pointed out to them - possibly by an email campaign. > (Snail mail from Australia to the USA takes two weeks - we do NOT > want to make Dmitry wait that long!) > > Alternatively, if the relevent Congresspeople only have snail mail, > someone in the USA could act as a letter-drop for those of us > outside the USA to email, that US person could print and send the > collected emails on our behalf. > > > Please let me know when you know what you're going to do here. > I emailed Adobe, but am reluctant to snail-mail Meuller's office - > as I said, it'd take too FSCKING long to arrive. > > Sincerely > (because, dammit, I want to be able to go to conventions and > conferences without expecting arrest...) > > > > Jenn V. > -- > "Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture > you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer. > > jenn@simegen.com Jenn Vesperman http://www.simegen.com/~jenn/ > > > ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- > > > -- > Pablos Kadrevis > pablos@kadrevis.com > 415.420.3806 > www.shmoo.com/~pablos > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From sisgeek at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 20:29:00 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mail to Congress people In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010726032900.73064.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> kastlyn makes me think it might be a good idea to have some people in washington willing to print out email letters and deliver hard copies to reps, sens and committee members? kind like a "washington office" for free sklyarov. --- Kastlyn wrote: > I'm willing to act as a mail-drop for anyone > who would like to send a > letter to Sen. Hatch. I could probably even, if > several people write > letters, just hand-deliver them to his Utah office, > if people want their > letters to get there REAL fast. =} > -=Amie=- > > On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: > > > Here's someone who needs some feedback about how > to help. > > > > pablos. > > > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > Date: Thursday, July 26, 2001 9:28 AM +1000 > > From: "jenn@simegen.com" > > To: "wtf@rejectmueller.com" > > > Subject: Non-US programmers > > > > I have been thinking about what those of us who do > NOT live in the > > USA can do. > > > > I assume that those of you who do live there are > aware that most of > > us (Open Source programmers, etc) are now wary of > ever going to the > > USA for any reason. > > > > I was wondering if there was someone in the US > Congress who needs > > this pointed out to them - possibly by an email > campaign. > > (Snail mail from Australia to the USA takes two > weeks - we do NOT > > want to make Dmitry wait that long!) > > > > Alternatively, if the relevent Congresspeople only > have snail mail, > > someone in the USA could act as a letter-drop for > those of us > > outside the USA to email, that US person could > print and send the > > collected emails on our behalf. > > > > > > Please let me know when you know what you're going > to do here. > > I emailed Adobe, but am reluctant to snail-mail > Meuller's office - > > as I said, it'd take too FSCKING long to arrive. > > > > Sincerely > > (because, dammit, I want to be able to go to > conventions and > > conferences without expecting arrest...) > > > > > > > > Jenn V. > > -- > > "Do you ever wonder if there's a whole > section of geek culture > > you miss out on by being a geek?" - > Dancer. > > > > jenn@simegen.com Jenn Vesperman > http://www.simegen.com/~jenn/ > > > > > > ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- > > > > > > -- > > Pablos Kadrevis > > pablos@kadrevis.com > > 415.420.3806 > > www.shmoo.com/~pablos > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From mark at blorch.org Wed Jul 25 20:26:51 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Next protest? In-Reply-To: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F99@ryentes1.mobius.com> References: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F99@ryentes1.mobius.com> Message-ID: <0107252026510B.19049@bilbo.blorch.org> On Wednesday 25 July 2001 11:50, Leonid Gorkin wrote: > I was thinking that it might be a good idea for East coast people to head > for Washington for a weekend of fun and games :) Hey, wonder if you could meet with Boucher since he's weighed in on this? He wants to rewrite the DMCA. We should support him anyway we can. Mark From kastlyn at unixtribe.net Wed Jul 25 20:28:36 2001 From: kastlyn at unixtribe.net (Kastlyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:25 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit In-Reply-To: <01b001c11566$0cfbf190$d080b4d8@techlkpl5wd3de> Message-ID: I would also be willing to donate $$ to this fund, but one thing we have to keep in mind is that, though she would probably like to be able to come over here and offer her support, and possibly get an opportunity to visit him, it would mean leaving her close network of friends and family that she has there at home to help her through this. I can't speak for her, or say what she's thinking, but I know that it has always helped me to have family close by to help me in periods in heightened emotional stress. Mothers, espically, are really good and lending emotional support, (not to mention helping out with the kids!) and that will probably be something that she'll be hesitant to leave. However, if she does decide to come here, I will lend help in any way that I can. =} Hopefully, though, it won't come to that, and Dmirty will be sent home quickly. -=Amie=- On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Brandon Collins wrote: > Hi all, > > I'd be willing to give $100-$150 to help make that happen. > > -Brandon Collins > > Editor-in-Chief > www.techcritique.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Derek Gladding" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 6:41 PM > Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit > > > > I would also be willing to contribute to this cause. A quick > > hunt on Travelocity gives a price of about $700 for 1 adult + > > 2 children from Moscow to SFO round-trip. > > > > We should be able to raise that much. > > > > I'll offer to put $50 in the pot. > > > > - Derek > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > > [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Ben Ford > > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 2:57 PM > > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit > > > > > > Seth Johnson wrote: > > > > >See, this is a <> idea. > > > > > >What about we get up a fund and offer her and her child a round trip with > > >an indefinite stay? > > > > > >Suggest she visit some of the demonstrations. And let the media know > > >she'll be there. We could incrementally have different demonstration > > >sites scare up funds for her to visit them. > > > > > >This is such a great idea. > > > > > >Seth Johnson > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: "Charles Eakins" > > >Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:18:03 -0700 > > >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought > > > > > >>Would having Dmitry's family over here, look better to a Bail judge, > > >>about > > >>flight risk? Any arrangments made to that affect? > > >> > > > > I'd donate $20 to that. > > > > -- > > Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are > > going to burn in Hell forever. > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From jono at microshaft.org Wed Jul 25 20:32:15 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mail to Congress people In-Reply-To: <20010726032900.73064.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com>; from sisgeek@yahoo.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 08:29:00PM -0700 References: <20010726032900.73064.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010725203215.E19484@networkcommand.com> Do it! ..."Today, 17,000 email letters were delivered to Congress People demanding a review of the DMCA..." On 25-Jul-2001, alfee cube wrote: > kastlyn makes me think it might be a good idea to have > some people in washington willing to print out email > letters and deliver hard copies to reps, sens and > committee members? > > kind like a "washington office" for free sklyarov. > > --- Kastlyn wrote: > > I'm willing to act as a mail-drop for anyone > > who would like to send a > > letter to Sen. Hatch. I could probably even, if > > several people write > > letters, just hand-deliver them to his Utah office, > > if people want their > > letters to get there REAL fast. =} > > -=Amie=- > > > > On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: > > > > > Here's someone who needs some feedback about how > > to help. > > > > > > pablos. > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > > Date: Thursday, July 26, 2001 9:28 AM +1000 > > > From: "jenn@simegen.com" > > > To: "wtf@rejectmueller.com" > > > > > Subject: Non-US programmers > > > > > > I have been thinking about what those of us who do > > NOT live in the > > > USA can do. > > > > > > I assume that those of you who do live there are > > aware that most of > > > us (Open Source programmers, etc) are now wary of > > ever going to the > > > USA for any reason. > > > > > > I was wondering if there was someone in the US > > Congress who needs > > > this pointed out to them - possibly by an email > > campaign. > > > (Snail mail from Australia to the USA takes two > > weeks - we do NOT > > > want to make Dmitry wait that long!) > > > > > > Alternatively, if the relevent Congresspeople only > > have snail mail, > > > someone in the USA could act as a letter-drop for > > those of us > > > outside the USA to email, that US person could > > print and send the > > > collected emails on our behalf. > > > > > > > > > Please let me know when you know what you're going > > to do here. > > > I emailed Adobe, but am reluctant to snail-mail > > Meuller's office - > > > as I said, it'd take too FSCKING long to arrive. > > > > > > Sincerely > > > (because, dammit, I want to be able to go to > > conventions and > > > conferences without expecting arrest...) > > > > > > > > > > > > Jenn V. > > > -- > > > "Do you ever wonder if there's a whole > > section of geek culture > > > you miss out on by being a geek?" - > > Dancer. > > > > > > jenn@simegen.com Jenn Vesperman > > http://www.simegen.com/~jenn/ > > > > > > > > > ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Pablos Kadrevis > > > pablos@kadrevis.com > > > 415.420.3806 > > > www.shmoo.com/~pablos > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Wed Jul 25 20:40:24 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit References: <3.0.6.32.20010725165042.009e6be0@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: <3B5F9128.69F82913@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> You're right. It's therefore not something I think of right off. But elaborate, please. Pro or against, but couldn't it be possible somehow? Seth Johnson David Honig wrote: > > >Seth Johnson wrote: > > > >>What about we get up a fund and offer her and her child a round trip with > >>an indefinite stay? > > You obviously don't have children. From lgorkin1 at nyc.rr.com Wed Jul 25 20:39:34 2001 From: lgorkin1 at nyc.rr.com (Leonid Gorkin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Next protest? In-Reply-To: <0107252026510B.19049@bilbo.blorch.org> References: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F99@ryentes1.mobius.com> <0107252026510B.19049@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <01072523393400.23950@lorien> Unless he leaves for vacation somewhere. But seriously, look, I think people from New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore, etc. go to DC, we can get a sizable crowd, and get noticed by media and government. Let's call it "million geek march" :)) On Wednesday 25 July 2001 11:26 pm, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: > On Wednesday 25 July 2001 11:50, Leonid Gorkin wrote: > > I was thinking that it might be a good idea for East coast people to head > > for Washington for a weekend of fun and games :) > > Hey, wonder if you could meet with Boucher since he's weighed in on this? > > He wants to rewrite the DMCA. We should support him anyway we can. > > Mark > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jays at panix.com Wed Jul 25 20:56:00 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Public Library of Science Prepares to Boycott Journals with Launch of Publishing Effort In-Reply-To: <20010725175704.J17700@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Jon O . wrote: > > Off slashdot: > > Genomeweb reports that scientists are gearing up for the Sept 1 > boycott of science publishers, because only two publishers (Genome Biology and > PubMedCenteral) have met the demands of open and copyright free access to science articles. > As part of this process they're developing a means to publish their own journal articles." > > http://www.genomeweb.com/articles/view-article.asp?Article=200172219199 http://xxx.lanl.gov http://front.math.ucdavis.edu oo--JS. From prostoalex at hotbox.ru Wed Jul 25 20:58:26 2001 From: prostoalex at hotbox.ru (Alexander Moskalyuk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fair Use in the Electronic Age Message-ID: <200107260358.f6Q3wQR91696@www1.mailru.com> http://www.arl.org/info/frn/copy/fairuse.html The following was said by Justice Sandra Day O'Connor in the case 'Feist Publications, Inc. v. Rural Telephone Service Co': "The primary objective of copyright is not to reward the labor of authors, but to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts. To this end, copyright assures authors the right to their original expression, but encourages others to build freely upon the ideas and information conveyed by a work. This result is neither unfair nor unfortunate. It is the means by which copyright advances the progress of science and art". The Copyright Law states that: Without infringing copyright, the public has a right to expect: ---to read, listen to, or view publicly marketed copyrighted material privately, on site or remotely; ---to browse through publicly marketed copyrighted material; ---to experiment with variations of copyrighted material for fair use purposes, while preserving the integrity of the original; ---to make or have made for them a first generation copy for personal use of an article or other small part of a publicly marketed copyrighted work or a work in a library's collection for such purpose as study, scholarship, or research; and ---to make transitory copies if ephemeral or incidental to a lawful use and if retained only temporarily. Best regards, Alexander Moskalyuk http://www.moskalyuk.com/ ICQ 44065387 From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Wed Jul 25 20:45:32 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit References: <200107252349.f6PNnXc15092@phil.hintz.org> Message-ID: <3B5F925B.BD1B4FCF@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Edmund: Perhaps if she knows, given the show of support in this thread, that many of the practical issues might to a great degree be resolved, she might see the idea in a different light? Seth Johnson "Edmund A. Hintz" wrote: > > And before you go too fast, also keep in mind that up to this point she > has said she does NOT want to do this... So don't start collecting money > just yet folks-or if you do keep in mind that it may never go for it's > intended purpose, and instead end up in the EFF's coffers or whatever. > Not necessarily a bad thing, I suppose. From kastlyn at unixtribe.net Wed Jul 25 21:07:42 2001 From: kastlyn at unixtribe.net (Kastlyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Intellectual Property. In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725185914.052dc780@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Agreed. Therefore, the DMCA violates itself, and MUST be struck down! =} -=Amie=- On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Will Doherty wrote: > Brilliant! :-) > > At 03:33 PM 7/25/2001 -0700, Austin Hook wrote: > > >My rights and freedoms are a product of moral, ethical, and philosophical > >thought. They represent the intellectual property that I want most want > >to keep secure. > > > >The Bill of Rights is my protection. > > > >The DMCA is a circumvention device. > > > >Austin Hook > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From david at lupercalia.net Wed Jul 25 21:11:02 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Show of Solidarity In-Reply-To: <87g0bk7fx7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 04:21:50PM -0700 References: <87g0bk7fx7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010726001102.B18147@lupercalia.net> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 04:21:50PM -0700, Klepht wrote: > It might be a bit of a coup and a show of solidarity for sites like > freesklyarov.org or RejectMueller.com and others to put up a "No > Protests Until After Meeting" notice. > > Something like, "We won't be having any protests until after Friday's > meeting between the EFF and the US Attorney. We look forward to > favorable outcomes." > > Costs nothing, and it gives our friendly EFF negotiators a boost. Why > not? DC won't be having a protest this week, but we are meeting at 6:00 Thursday, at Q & 20th above the Dupont Metro station, for a strategy session. Please post this on your websites and help me publicize it. I believe that DC can play a pivotal role in all this because sooner or later the fight is going to come to Washington. -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ From david at lupercalia.net Wed Jul 25 21:13:12 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Support - Norway In-Reply-To: <019101c11562$d9ef4700$0300000a@broadpark.no>; from honeypot@online.no on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 01:37:42AM +0200 References: <20010725233135.32368.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> <019101c11562$d9ef4700$0300000a@broadpark.no> Message-ID: <20010726001312.C18147@lupercalia.net> On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 01:37:42AM +0200, Eli Therese wrote: > Hello > > I was wondering wether anyone knows of support groups in Norway? > > Since I live in Oslo it's naturally a little difficult for me to take part > in groups in the US. > > Thanks for all your help. If you want to help, I could use someone to do the webmastering for the DC group. Our page is shit because I just don't have time to do it. -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ From david at lupercalia.net Wed Jul 25 21:14:28 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another LA Protest. - & UNSUBSCRIBE!! In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010725184240.00a5c540@localhost>; from freesk@hackhawk.net on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 06:44:06PM -0700 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010725184240.00a5c540@localhost> Message-ID: <20010726001428.D18147@lupercalia.net> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 06:44:06PM -0700, hackhawk wrote: > 2) Plan a centralized (Perhaps Washington D.C.) protest where we ALL > attempt to reach one area on August 15th. Sounds like a great idea to me. -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ From david at lupercalia.net Wed Jul 25 21:25:19 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mail to Congress people In-Reply-To: <20010726032900.73064.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com>; from sisgeek@yahoo.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 08:28:38PM -0700 References: <20010726032900.73064.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010726002519.E18147@lupercalia.net> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 08:28:38PM -0700, alfee cube wrote: > kastlyn makes me think it might be a good idea to have > some people in washington willing to print out email > letters and deliver hard copies to reps, sens and > committee members? > > kind like a "washington office" for free sklyarov. I can do that. Plain text only, please. -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Wed Jul 25 21:11:43 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Next protest? References: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F99@ryentes1.mobius.com> <0107252026510B.19049@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <3B5F987F.3C88B7AF@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> I would go. Seth Johnson "Mark K. Bilbo" wrote: > > On Wednesday 25 July 2001 11:50, Leonid Gorkin wrote: > > I was thinking that it might be a good idea for East coast people to head > > for Washington for a weekend of fun and games :) > > Hey, wonder if you could meet with Boucher since he's weighed in on this? From david at lupercalia.net Wed Jul 25 21:29:09 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit In-Reply-To: <3B5F925B.BD1B4FCF@Realmeasures.dyndns.org>; from seth.johnson@Realmeasures.dyndns.org on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:45:10PM -0400 References: <200107252349.f6PNnXc15092@phil.hintz.org> <3B5F925B.BD1B4FCF@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20010726002909.F18147@lupercalia.net> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:45:10PM -0400, Seth Johnson wrote: > > Edmund: > > Perhaps if she knows, given the show of support in this thread, that > many of the practical issues might to a great degree be resolved, she > might see the idea in a different light? Yes, and her presence could help get her husband out, too. She and her children are certainly sympathetic characters. And maybe even if she's not interested now, the situation could change on her end or ours. -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ From rsperberg at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 21:31:30 2001 From: rsperberg at yahoo.com (Roger Sperberg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? In-Reply-To: <20010725201644.B19484@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: Vladimir Katalov wrote me that Dimitry had passed out CDs that contained, among other programs, the demo version of AEBPR 2.2 that displays 25 percent of the encrypted content (or one page, whichever is more) and leaves the remaining pages blank. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Jon O . Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 11:17 PM To: Kevin Cc: jenn@simegen.com; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? I did hear that he was passing out copies of some software after the speech. This is UNCONFIRMED. On 25-Jul-2001, Kevin wrote: > > (And if the answer is 'nothing', then I'm suddenly scared of > > ever setting foot in the US...) > > > > It isn't *quite* as bad as 'nothing', but nearly. He threatened the revenue > stream of a powerful American company. > > > Free Dmitry you dumb son-of-a-bitch. > - Joe Pesci, Lethal Weapon 2 > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Wed Jul 25 21:18:41 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Monday Message-ID: From kastlyn at unixtribe.net Wed Jul 25 21:37:44 2001 From: kastlyn at unixtribe.net (Kastlyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another LA Protest. - & UNSUBSCRIBE!! In-Reply-To: <20010726001428.D18147@lupercalia.net> Message-ID: Yes, that would be an excellent thing. =} Though I most likely won't be able to attend myself, due to mostly economic reasons, I think it would be wonderfully beneficial in showing Washington that we're here, we're upset, we're not taking this lightly, and we're not going to go away. Never under-estimate the power of SMART people in large groups. =} -=Amie=- On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, David Merrill wrote: > On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 06:44:06PM -0700, hackhawk wrote: > > 2) Plan a centralized (Perhaps Washington D.C.) protest where we ALL > > attempt to reach one area on August 15th. > > Sounds like a great idea to me. > > -- > Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net > Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net > Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org > > Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com > Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Wed Jul 25 21:26:46 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Monday Message-ID: Sorry if I put out an empty email before. I'm seriously getting some sleep tonight. I am probing interest for Minnesota to rally on Monday, July 30, and I expect to reach a decision tomorrow. We will meet face to face on Saturday at Perkins in Roseville regardless of the outcome of the EFF meeting with the US Atty. Chris Moseng Free Dmitry. Repeal the DMCA. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ From jono at microshaft.org Wed Jul 25 21:42:35 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Prediction? Message-ID: <20010725214235.E19823@networkcommand.com> Wanted: Loveable hero for copyright battle http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5082221,00.html From kastlyn at unixtribe.net Wed Jul 25 21:46:51 2001 From: kastlyn at unixtribe.net (Kastlyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mail to Congress people In-Reply-To: <20010726002519.E18147@lupercalia.net> Message-ID: One question on that.. Think it would be a good idea to send letters to not only the local offices, but also send copies to washington-central (*grin*), for printout and delivery to their Washington office? That way, our letters will get to them quickly weather they're in their home state, or in D.C., don't you think? -=Amie=- On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, David Merrill wrote: > On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 08:28:38PM -0700, alfee cube wrote: > > kastlyn makes me think it might be a good idea to have > > some people in washington willing to print out email > > letters and deliver hard copies to reps, sens and > > committee members? > > > > kind like a "washington office" for free sklyarov. > > I can do that. Plain text only, please. > > -- > Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net > Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net > Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org > > Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com > Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From wild at eff.org Wed Jul 25 21:57:18 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Was That It? In-Reply-To: <87y9pc6090.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725215712.03399620@pop3.norton.antivirus> That was it. At 04:46 PM 7/25/2001 -0700, Klepht wrote: >Will, > >So, you said there'd be an announce by 5PM. Was the one about meeting >with the US Attorney it? > >It's not like I'm underwhelmed, but there seems to be some >confusion. Don't leave us hanging! > >~Klepht > >-- >klepht@eleutheria.org >http://www.eleutheria.org/ From wild at eff.org Wed Jul 25 22:06:30 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Was That It? In-Reply-To: <87ae1s5xyy.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> References: <20010725164941.Y14917@zork.net> <87y9pc6090.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010725164941.Y14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010725220622.0342eac8@pop3.norton.antivirus> LOL! :-) At 05:35 PM 7/25/2001 -0700, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "SDS" == Seth David Schoen writes: > > Me> So, you said there'd be an announce by 5PM. Was the one about > Me> meeting with the US Attorney it? > > SDS> I'm sure that's the expected announcement. > >Cool! That means I can get up from the computer and go to the >bathroom, now. > >~Klepht > >-- >klepht@eleutheria.org >http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From declan at well.com Wed Jul 25 22:18:00 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Next protest? In-Reply-To: <01072523393400.23950@lorien>; from lgorkin1@nyc.rr.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:39:34PM -0400 References: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F99@ryentes1.mobius.com> <0107252026510B.19049@bilbo.blorch.org> <01072523393400.23950@lorien> Message-ID: <20010726011800.C2642@cluebot.com> Keep in mind that nearly all congresscritters are gone during the summer recess, roughly ~5 Aug to ~5 Sep. -Declan On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:39:34PM -0400, Leonid Gorkin wrote: > Unless he leaves for vacation somewhere. But seriously, look, I think people > from New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore, etc. go to DC, we can get a > sizable crowd, and get noticed by media and government. Let's call it > "million geek march" :)) > > > On Wednesday 25 July 2001 11:26 pm, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: > > On Wednesday 25 July 2001 11:50, Leonid Gorkin wrote: > > > I was thinking that it might be a good idea for East coast people to head > > > for Washington for a weekend of fun and games :) > > > > Hey, wonder if you could meet with Boucher since he's weighed in on this? > > > > He wants to rewrite the DMCA. We should support him anyway we can. > > > > Mark > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Wed Jul 25 22:01:14 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit References: Message-ID: <3B5FA41A.11BE3564@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Okay. If Oksana says go, we have $400 straight up for her already. I'm going to say the following right now as an attempt to head off potential difficulties should the initiative actualize: Edmund, could you step up and offer an address to send funds to, should Oksana say it's her wish? I propose that EFF endorse the effort if it comes about, and that an understanding or whatsit be set up, stipulating that the funds be used for Oksana's visit, and something specific be done with any remainders, such as give it to her as the person who's closest to the situation. I suspect that it might be wisest for EFF to lend its masntle to her visit, but explicitly not accept any financial gain from the initiative. Some might look askance at that, not for any other reason than appearances. There might be a little contention over the protest hold that might play out badly. Seth Johnson From ausage at ausage.com Wed Jul 25 22:19:39 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Reasons why the United States should free Dimitry Message-ID: <01072601193901.03127@frankie> Reasons why the United States should free Dimitry ------------------------------------- 1) The is absolutely no proof Dimitry did anything wrong, anywhere. Yes, his name was on a copyright notice, but that does not mean he participated in any illegal transaction. 2) This is selective prosecution. Dimitry was accompanied by the president of his employer, an FBI supplier. The officers of the company are responsible for the acts of the company. Why was the president not charged? Why was the accomplice in the transaction, RegNow not charged? They are an American company complicit in the same act of trafficing. 3) Dimitry is a being used by a large American company to put pressure on others who might harm their business. Why wasn't he arrested as soon as he arrived in Las Vegas, why wait until after Defcon. Where the PTB afraid of the anger of 5,000 or so angry "hackers". 4) There has been no crime (arguement used unsucessfully by 2600). According to an Adobe communication 27/05/2001 there are no reports of comprised eBook files "in the wild". Then again the same day Adobe annouced a new eBook Virtually Library protect by their technology. 5) There has been no crime (alternate arguement). Unlike DVD's, there are eBooks in the public domain. (see Adobe web site for a complete list of titles). This makes ABEPR a tool to access "unprotected" works. 6) National interest. US is getting a black eye. Many people outside the US are very angry. We may start telling our American suppliers to go home and give our money to a country is less onerous. I don't know where my next vacation will be, but will NOT be in the US. Attend a computer conference in the US.? I'm not that stupid... I do security work from time to time too. 7) Domestic peace. Dimitry Sklyarov is getting a lot of press. Demonstrations keep happing. This story is not going to go away quietly. 8) Save face. "After a full investigation of the facts in this case, the Justice Department has detemined that there is insufficient evidence available in the US to justify continuing on the matter and that the probability of a sucessfull prosecution is very low". 9) Save face. If the Justice Department proceeds and the Second Circuit Court of Appeal rules the law is unconstitutional half way through the proceedings, after all these protests and all the publicity, somebody is going to have a lot of questions to anwer. 10) Save face. If a judge tosses the case out on a summary motion to dismiss, after tall these protests and all the publicity, somebody is going to have some very embarrassing questions to answer. 11) Stay in office. This arrest has created a ground swell against the DMCA. The DMCA is getting bad press. This will make the MPAA, RIAA and others upset. That will make the politicians upset. That will threaten the jobs of senior civil servants. ----------- I am sure that the EFF has though all these thoughts, but if others want to brainstorm a few ideas on why the Justice Dept should let Dimitry go, not why he's innocent but rather why it's a really good idea to give a ticket and sent him home gracefully, it won't do any harm.... And if we give the EFF one extra arguement to take to the bargaining table it could make a difference. -- Andrew Lawrence Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 From rabbi at quickie.net Wed Jul 25 22:26:08 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Kill this thread. Now. On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Roger Sperberg wrote: > Vladimir Katalov wrote me that Dimitry had passed out CDs that contained, > among other programs, the demo version of AEBPR 2.2 that displays 25 percent > of the encrypted content (or one page, whichever is more) and leaves the > remaining pages blank. > > -----Original Message----- > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Jon O . > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 11:17 PM > To: Kevin > Cc: jenn@simegen.com; free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? > > > > > I did hear that he was passing out copies of some software after > the speech. This is UNCONFIRMED. > > > > > > On 25-Jul-2001, Kevin wrote: > > > (And if the answer is 'nothing', then I'm suddenly scared of > > > ever setting foot in the US...) > > > > > > > It isn't *quite* as bad as 'nothing', but nearly. He threatened the > revenue > > stream of a powerful American company. > > > > > > Free Dmitry you dumb son-of-a-bitch. > > - Joe Pesci, Lethal Weapon 2 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From declan at well.com Wed Jul 25 22:30:24 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Libertarian anti-DMCA is fantasy In-Reply-To: <20010725212236.A26607@sethf.com>; from sethf@sethf.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 09:22:36PM -0400 References: <3B5F2ED9.448D70E6@sethf.com> <200107252335.QAA22855@shell3.ba.best.com> <20010725200329.B24110@cluebot.com> <20010725212236.A26607@sethf.com> Message-ID: <20010726013024.D2642@cluebot.com> This could become an all-encompassing discussion that has little to do with the purpose of this list. But Finkelstein makes some allegations that are simply weird if not incomprehensible, and so I'll try to correct them and simultaneously bring it back to Dmitry. Simple language may work: 1. Libertarian and conservative groups (not the same) are newly-influential because of a new guy in the White House. Many think tank types have gone to work for the Bush administration. There is a close relationship, particularly with conservatives. 2. Libertarian groups (don't know about conservatives, haven't interviewed them) unanimously say it should not be a crime to circumvent and this prosecution is a bad idea. But they have a lot of other topics they're active on and this is not a top priority. 3. Heck, a CSE guy showed up at the DC rally and was quoted in the Chronicle of Higher Ed article. This is a group founded by a former Reagan White House attorney. They're sympathetic, and probably just need to learn more. 4. To get them more active, it makes sense to reach out to them and not make nutty propagandistic statements like "DMCA is Libertarianism in Action" that are better relegated to bumper stickers for the deranged. 5. If they are active, they have a better chance of persuading Congress to amend the DMCA than merely the usual lefty coalition of EPIC-ACLU-EFF. (Not saying that this would be the entirety of it, of course.) And head off similar and more far-reaching laws along the way. CSE has half a million grassroots activists and their support for Free Dmitry rallys might even come in handy. This is Politics and Coalition Building 101, folks. Obviously not everyone here gets it, but I suspect most of you do. -Declan PS: I agree that what is property and the future of intellectual property are interesting questions, but I'm not sure this list is the best place to have extended debates over the answers. Try cypherpunks. On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 09:22:36PM -0400, Seth Finkelstein wrote: > On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 08:03:29PM -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > I've spoken with and interviewed representatives of the Competitive > > Intelligence Institute and the Cato Institute and the Pacific Research > > Institute (libertarian think tanks) and not one believes that what > > Dmitry did should be a crime. > > Not a one of them has to raise a ton of money to run for > office either. It is very, very, easy to say what you think your > audience wants to hear, especially when those PR people know exactly > what that interviewer would like to have presented as their stance. > > It is quite another to vote on a law knowing that a large > amount of campaign contribution money is riding on that vote. And > perhaps that leads to a re-thinking of one's convictions. Especially > when there are plausible ways of coming to an ideological view that > is in harmony with the money. It's happened many a time. > > > These groups are your natural allies, and frothing here against "those > > evil libertarians" or whatever won't help them move from criticizing > > the DMCA and Dmitry's arrest to participating in an active repeal/ > > rewrite effort. > > I don't recall using the words you put in quotes. I do recall, > however, one poster saying "Yes, this is a shameless plug for the > Libertarian party". And then someone else who once was defended by > the Cato Institute as a "libertarian journalist" under attack > (http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/v22n4/crosshairs.pdf) > chimed in. And this was at the same time as another person ranting > "Feinstein is a socialist". > > Trying to use the DMCA and Dmitry's arrest as plugs for > this sort of politicing doesn't help anyone. It's just attempting > to hijack the efforts in the service of annoying proselytizing. > > Why? Because it does not solve the problem. The core is > "What Is Property", and why. I was accused in trolling for asking how > Declan can justify making his living from a government-granted > monopoly on speech. But that's a true question. It's a deep issue. > Copyright is a restriction on speech. It declares punishments > for people who say things, merely on the basis that those things have > been said by someone else. It says this speech is *owned*. It's a kind > of property in itself. That's a very weird thing at heart. > > However, it's been in the Constitution from day 1, as a > specific power of Congress. Once you accept speech can be > a kind of property (even if an odd type of property), how far > once goes to enforce those *property* *rights* is a question > that has to deal with the implications of this type of property. > > In fact, the DMCA is Libertarianism in action. It's the > government enforcing (intellectual) property rights on behalf > of the owners of that property. No smiley. That's what it is. > > I'm not trying to argue against copyright _per se_. But once > you've taken the step that people can be punished at all for what they > say, just to support this property-right, increasing and extending > those punishments follows the same path. > > Libertarians and similar, at least the ones posting here, do > not seem to grasp this problem. Their replies boil down to "No, the > line is *here*!" Why is it there? Do you have an explanation that > works for copyright in the first place? Government-bad doesn't cut > it. That's just demagoguery. > > I'll try to put it another way: If, as a purely ideological > matter, you can swallow a restriction on a right to say the speech > (i.e. to copy it), then it's not a big jump to an ideological > justification to restricting speech about enabling people to copy that > speech. If there ever were a lot of real Libertarian Party politicians > trying to get a lot of money to seriously win a high office, I suspect > they'd find proclaiming the property aspects very appealing. > > I believe the proselytizing that we saw today is at best > extremely distracting noise, and worse, downright intellectually > harmful to understanding and thinking about this issue. Hence > my writing in opposition to it. > > But as always, feel free to consider this "typically, > nonsense or otherwise not worth the time it takes to reply." > > -- > Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com > http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From declan at well.com Wed Jul 25 22:34:00 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010725222510.03691c40@ideasuite.com>; from eric@tully.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:11:24PM -0400 References: <3B5F7DCF.1030302@simegen.com> <5.0.2.1.2.20010725222510.03691c40@ideasuite.com> Message-ID: <20010726013400.E2642@cluebot.com> Your analysis does not sound entirely implausible. I think Chris Savage posted about the nuances last week on the list. -Declan On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:11:24PM -0400, Eric Tully wrote: > > I'm finding that some people think that the FBI had a right to arrest him > (under the currently flawed DMCA) and other people think that they had no > right to arrest him. > > If the FBI had no right to arrest him, then this wouldn't be a programming > issue. It wouldn't be a free speech issue. It wouldn't even be a DMCA > issue. If the FBI had no right to arrest him, then any decent lawyer would > simply stand in front of the judge and say, "I have tons of precedent > showing that Russians aren't subject to American laws, you have to let him > go." And the judge would. > > But I don't think that's the case. > > Columbian drug lords sell cocaine to middle men who bring it to the US and > because of extradition laws, we drag the kingpins here and try them in > American courts (when we can catch them!). The fact that they were in > Columbia when they broke American law was irrelevent. They did something > that affected Americans. > > I think the key is that he broke American law by distributing it on the > Internet and then he set foot on American soil. I mean, if you're going to > break American law in a way that "harms" American interests, I think you > *should* be arrested if you come to American soil. > > (Don't get me wrong, I don't think he harmed Adobe and I think the DMCA is > unjust legislation that should be repealed. But I don't think that the > arrest was illegal under current law.) > > I know people will disagree with me on this. I'd be interested in a > lawyer's comment. > > - Eric > > > > > > > At 12:17 PM 7/26/01 +1000, you wrote: > > > > After talking with some friends of mine, and long discussions; here > > > is what I came up with. > > > Even, I feel that US has no right arresting Sklyarov; but under > > > DMCA the FBI "did" have the right to arrest Sklyarov. > > > So, we pretty much don't have a case against the DoJ and the > > > chances of Sklyarov getting the jail time is high. > > > (I don't like this anymore then you guys do; but that is what > > > might happen) > > > >Um. What did Sklyarov do *IN THE USA* that was against US law? > > > >As I understand it, he did something *in Russia* that is against > >US law, but NOT against Russian law. > > > >As I understand it, all he did in the USA that was even remotely > >potentially 'wrong' was present an academic paper. > > > > > > > > > >Jenn V. > >-- > > "Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture > > you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer. > > > >jenn@simegen.com Jenn Vesperman http://www.simegen.com/~jenn/ > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From krw5 at qwest.net Wed Jul 25 22:33:18 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit In-Reply-To: <3B5FA41A.11BE3564@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> References: <3B5FA41A.11BE3564@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <0107252233180H.14496@stumpy> I'd second all Seth's points. Anyway, we're not talking about serious amounts of money here, and if anyone deserves it Dmitry's family does. In fact, perhaps one of the legal eagles on this list would like to begin preparing Dmitry's suit against the U.S. government for some REAL compensation? I'm only half joking... roger On Wednesday 25 July 2001 22:01, Seth Johnson wrote: > Okay. If Oksana says go, we have $400 straight up for her already. > > I'm going to say the following right now as an attempt to head off > potential difficulties should the initiative actualize: > > Edmund, could you step up and offer an address to send funds to, should > Oksana say it's her wish? I propose that EFF endorse the effort if it > comes about, and that an understanding or whatsit be set up, stipulating > that the funds be used for Oksana's visit, and something specific be > done with any remainders, such as give it to her as the person who's > closest to the situation. > > I suspect that it might be wisest for EFF to lend its masntle to her > visit, but explicitly not accept any financial gain from the > initiative. Some might look askance at that, not for any other reason > than appearances. There might be a little contention over the protest > hold that might play out badly. > > Seth Johnson > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From enpassant at lokmail.net Wed Jul 25 22:33:33 2001 From: enpassant at lokmail.net (en passant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FBI, DOJ strategy Message-ID: <200107260533.BAA19639@mail.lokmail.net> I've been trying to keep up with all the emails on this list, forgive me if this redundant. I agree with things I've heard on this list about Adobe being easy compared with the FBI/DOJ. I Think we should keep the heat up on Adobe until Dmitry is free because they did start this thing, but that's another thread from hell. My question is what's the best way to get the attention of the FBI/DOJ. Adobe is a big publicly traded company and as such doesn't have much tolerance for pain, where the FBI/DOJ likes to think of themselves as "untouchable." While I don't think Mueller is specifically responsible for the current situation. I can't forget that his confirmation hearing is quickly approaching, and if we need to raise the stakes to get National attention to get Dmitry out, that's one way to do it. And it's a option that is going to expire soon. So if there are any geeks out there with family or friends who are particularly politically astute please consult them and let us know the best ways to motivate the FBI/DOJ. -- Use ROT-52 to decrypt this transmission From ed at hintz.org Wed Jul 25 22:35:36 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit Message-ID: <200107260536.f6Q5auc28348@phil.hintz.org> On 7/25/01 8:45 PM, seth.johnson@Realmeasures.dyndns.org thus spake: > >Edmund: > >Perhaps if she knows, given the show of support in this thread, that >many of the practical issues might to a great degree be resolved, she >might see the idea in a different light? That's possible. I've forwarded some of the early messages of the thread, asking for comment. Keep in mind, she grew up in a police state ruled by the KGB. Our FBI is currently using very similar tactics, especially from a Russian point of view. Because of this, I fully understand and support her hesitation and concerns. I don't personally think she would be under any danger of arrest or some such, but I totally understand and respect her position, and it's very reasonable given her context. And as was noted by Kastlyn, there is also the issue of a support network, so she does have some very valid reasons to reject a visit. Personally, I believe her presence would help persuade our citizenry that Dmitry is indeed simply a doctoral student and family man, but this decision is hers and hers alone, and I respect her choices. To borrow from Jerry Garcia and Robert Hunter, "We will get by"... ;-) Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From ed at hintz.org Wed Jul 25 22:43:43 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Oxana's mail of 7-21 Message-ID: <200107260545.f6Q5j3c06563@phil.hintz.org> Fyi, here is her mail to me of 7-21-01 9:20 AM PDT, concerning my offer of lodging (she gave me permission to forward-I was unwilling to send it earlier without said permission) : Thanks a lot for your letter, and sorry for my long silence. I really appreciate your invitation. I understand that you wish your best to us, but there is a saying in Russian: "Better you come to us"! ;) What I really worry about is a safety of my children. There is a chance that I'll be invided for the "interview" (I mean in Police) as Dmitry' wife -- I'm not scared with that at all, but wish my kids to be with me all the time. Please don't beg your pardons anymore -- that's not your fault. I understand that the "usual" people and the government are totally different. I can see all the support you (all the americans) are providing, and again -- I very appreciate that. I wish you all the best, thank you very much! Hope to see you in Moscow soon, just to sit with me and Dmitry and discuss only good things. Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From ben at kalifornia.com Wed Jul 25 22:55:57 2001 From: ben at kalifornia.com (Ben Ford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? References: <3B5F7DCF.1030302@simegen.com> <008d01c11579$f1a91260$0300000a@broadpark.no> <3B5F86BE.3090902@simegen.com> <009501c1157f$f96d6310$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> <20010725201644.B19484@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <3B5FB0ED.7040701@kalifornia.com> Jon O . wrote: > >I did hear that he was passing out copies of some software after >the speech. This is UNCONFIRMED. > It is confirmed now ;) I have a couple of them. He only had about 15 CDs to give out, but I ended up with 2 somehow. Keep in mind, these are DEMO CDs and will only decrypt the first 25 pages of an eBook. -b -- Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are going to burn in Hell forever. From keith at indierecords.com Wed Jul 25 23:05:19 2001 From: keith at indierecords.com (Keith Handy) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] *Heavy sigh of exhaustion* References: Message-ID: <3B5FB31F.350E@indierecords.com> How outrageously difficult would it be to transfer this discussion to a slashdot-like website, with a similar rating-by-points system, and threaded messages? I did just subscribe to the "announce" list, but haven't yet received one of those so I don't know if they will contain highlights from the discussion or only major news updates -- I would be quite happy to see someone, or maybe several people, go to the trouble to select the most informative/insightful posts for a "lite" version of the list (and clean up all the redundant re-quoting). I've heard several other people say that just reading all this is a full-time job, and I agree. So I suggest that a *few* of us do that work so the rest of us can have it easy. Heh. No really. Any other ideas? -Keith From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Wed Jul 25 22:55:30 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit References: <200107260536.f6Q5auc28348@phil.hintz.org> Message-ID: <3B5FB0D2.2F7375CE@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> That's all straight up. Keep us apprised. Seth Johnson "Edmund A. Hintz" wrote: > > That's possible. I've forwarded some of the early messages of the thread, > asking for comment. Keep in mind, she grew up in a police state ruled by > the KGB. Our FBI is currently using very similar tactics, especially from > a Russian point of view. Because of this, I fully understand and support > her hesitation and concerns. I don't personally think she would be under > any danger of arrest or some such, but I totally understand and respect > her position, and it's very reasonable given her context. And as was > noted by Kastlyn, there is also the issue of a support network, so she > does have some very valid reasons to reject a visit. Personally, I > believe her presence would help persuade our citizenry that Dmitry is > indeed simply a doctoral student and family man, but this decision is > hers and hers alone, and I respect her choices. > > To borrow from Jerry Garcia and Robert Hunter, "We will get by"... ;-) From david.haworth at altavista.net Wed Jul 25 22:58:55 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress says: Keep Dmitry in jail! Washington loves DMCA... In-Reply-To: <0107250945360C.13167@stumpy>; from krw5@qwest.net on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 09:45:36AM -0700 References: <20010725103125.F8972@cluebot.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010725120829.02454750@pop.nyu.edu> <0107250945360C.13167@stumpy> Message-ID: <20010726075855.B29688@3soft.de> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 09:45:36AM -0700, Roger Kramer wrote: > > Careful. Living up (or down) to the popular misrepresentation of us should be > a very last resort. The time for atlas to shrug may be near, but I don't > believe it's here just yet. If the worst comes to pass, and Dmitry's > sentenced to do time,I'll be the first to change hats, among other things. > Fortunately that hasn't happened yet. Something just occurred to me. The next Unix Epoch starts sometime in September (I forget the exact date & time, but it's out on the web somewhere). If Dmitry isn't freed (unconditionally) by then, it would be a nice time ... -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From lordgreywolf at earthlink.net Wed Jul 25 18:20:35 2001 From: lordgreywolf at earthlink.net (Glen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (no subject) Message-ID: <000001c11598$c2b5ef40$f9aef7a5@redwolf> unsuscribe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010725/e89e9d14/attachment.html From lordgreywolf at earthlink.net Wed Jul 25 23:05:40 2001 From: lordgreywolf at earthlink.net (Glen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] (free-sklyarov) unsuscribe Message-ID: <001501c11599$10b0b400$f9aef7a5@redwolf> unsuscribe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010726/56c214db/attachment.htm From ben at kalifornia.com Wed Jul 25 23:05:13 2001 From: ben at kalifornia.com (Ben Ford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? References: Message-ID: <3B5FB319.30308@kalifornia.com> Len Sassaman wrote: >Kill this thread. Now. > >On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Roger Sperberg wrote: > >>Vladimir Katalov wrote me that Dimitry had passed out CDs that contained, >>among other programs, the demo version of AEBPR 2.2 that displays 25 percent >>of the encrypted content (or one page, whichever is more) and leaves the >>remaining pages blank. >> NO! You can't win a legal battle by hiding very obvious facts. There were at least 3 FBI agents that I am aware of sitting in the room watching. Do you think that they don't know that he had these discs? What we have to do is figure out how to downplay it so that the insignificance of it is obvious. Like I said before, he only had about 15 discs and they were crippled demos. -b -- Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are going to burn in Hell forever. From pjv at inbox.lv Wed Jul 25 23:19:24 2001 From: pjv at inbox.lv (J.Andersen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] I want to unsubscribe Message-ID: <200107260728.f6Q7SXnD000592@satan.inbox.lv> Please unsubscribe my address from the mailing list From moeller at scireview.de Wed Jul 25 23:25:00 2001 From: moeller at scireview.de (Erik Moeller) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] *Heavy sigh of exhaustion* In-Reply-To: <3B5FB31F.350E@indierecords.com> Message-ID: <3B5FD3DC.21560.D9D98B9@localhost> On 26 Jul 2001, at 2:05, Keith Handy wrote: > How outrageously difficult would it be to transfer this discussion to > a slashdot-like website, with a similar rating-by-points system, and > threaded messages? I'm the editor of the collaborative weblog http://www.infoanarchy.org -- I try to keep the site up-to-date with regard to Dmitry's case and will post highlights from this list as well. The site uses Scoop, the same engine used by Kuro5hin, so anyone can submit stories, vote on stories, and rate comments. If others users of this list also submit information they find important, we can get a pretty good digest. Peace, Erik PS: Is there a European mailing list for discussing our equivalent of the DMCA, the EU directive on copyright? If not, would there be interest in creating/participating in such a mailing list? -- Scientific Reviewer, Freelancer, Humanist -- Berlin/Germany Phone: +49-30-45491008 - Web: The Origins of Peace and Violence: "History is full of people who, out of fear or ignorance or the lust for power, have destroyed treasures of immeasurable value which truly belong to all of us. We must not let it happen again." -- Carl Sagan From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 25 23:48:15 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] I want to unsubscribe In-Reply-To: <200107260728.f6Q7SXnD000592@satan.inbox.lv> References: <200107260728.f6Q7SXnD000592@satan.inbox.lv> Message-ID: <87ofq8i3tc.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JA" == J Andersen writes: JA> Please unsubscribe my address from the mailing list JA> http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov Nick, Looks like we need the "To unsubscribe" thing in the footer for this list, unfortunately. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From paul at paultopia.net Wed Jul 25 23:52:14 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe, EFF Call for Dmitry Release (fwd) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010723173947.06311ef8@earthlink.net> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010726005058.0323ed20@mail.paultopia.net> mea culpa. I already sent this privately, but congratulations to the EFF for actually extracting a concession (albeit a costless and probably profitable one, since now we'll all go out and buy adobe products in gratitude... yea, right =) ) from Adobe. I doubted, I was wrong. First time for everything. =) -Paul -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From klepht at eleutheria.org Wed Jul 25 23:57:43 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Status of SF Meeting Message-ID: <87itggi3dk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Hey, so, we had the meeting tonight at Sacred Grounds as planned. After jinxing myself with the Event Samurai blathering, I managed to schedule us at the same time as a weekly poetry reading in the same cafe (d'oh!). Fortunately, we were able to duck across the street to an empty Chinese restaurant and managed to get a lot of work done. I've already heard from one person who showed up and didn't see the sign on the cafe door ("Free Dmitry is at the Chinese Restaurant across the St."), and I apologize for throwing you off. Nick Moffitt is writing up a report from the meeting, which will be posted here soon. We have a _lot_ we want to get done in the next 5 days, and there's a lot of work to do. Thanks to everyone who made it. Free Dmitry! ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From gbroiles at well.com Thu Jul 26 00:12:14 2001 From: gbroiles at well.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010725222510.03691c40@ideasuite.com> References: <3B5F7DCF.1030302@simegen.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010726000208.00a956b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 11:11 PM 7/25/2001 -0400, Eric Tully wrote: >I think the key is that he broke American law by distributing it on the >Internet and then he set foot on American soil. I mean, if you're going >to break American law in a way that "harms" American interests, I think >you *should* be arrested if you come to American soil. Yeah, that's pretty much it, in a nutshell. According to international law, the US can prosecute non-citizens for acts which take place outside of the US, if those acts are intended to (and do) have negative effects inside the US' borders. Under US law, jurisdiction may or may not be appropriate, depending on what Congress' intent was with respect to extraterritorial application when they passed the DMCA. (but I'm betting the judge says it's not a problem). If Dmitry had stayed in Russia, he most likely wouldn't have been extraditable, unless Russia has local laws which also prohibit Dmitry's conduct - and many people have said that Russia does not. However, once he came inside the US' borders, he was subject to arrest at the FBI's convenience. Dmitry's case should be a warning to people who do things forbidden under US law - don't visit the US, and especially not in a high-profile or controversial fashion. >>Um. What did Sklyarov do *IN THE USA* that was against US law? Like Len said, this is a question that doesn't go anywhere good. Let's not help the the prosecution by identifying any new angles they may not have considered, at least not until Dmitry's back on Russian soil and the charges resolved. -- Greg Broiles gbroiles@well.com "Organized crime is the price we pay for organization." -- Raymond Chandler From david.haworth at altavista.net Thu Jul 26 00:23:59 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: ; from izel@sulam.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 09:22:24PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010726092359.C29688@3soft.de> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 09:22:24PM -0400, Izel Sulam wrote: > Suggestions so far are: > > 1) Copy controlled media > 2) Usage controlled media > 3) Crippled media (My suggestion) Here are mine: - Access-restricted media - Access-limited media -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From ed at hintz.org Thu Jul 26 00:31:25 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit Message-ID: <200107260732.f6Q7Wgc30300@phil.hintz.org> On 7/25/01 10:55 PM, seth.johnson@Realmeasures.dyndns.org thus spake: >That's all straight up. > >Keep us apprised. > Just got a reply regarding this thread. In my opinion, Oxana is one smart woman-again given her context-her close to the vest method of playing is very well advised. And I can't help but think of Miranda rights from what she says... From her reply: >But now even here in Moscow I don't give any interview becouse any of >my words could be use against Dima. I hope evrything will be >successfull and a lot of thanks for all of kinde people which protect >Dima . > That's why I think I mightn't fly anythere (even if I would like it...) > You could tell about my words as you prefer and don't worry about So, folks, lets just work on getting him sprung, and throw those donations to the EFF or something... Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sethf at sethf.com Thu Jul 26 00:44:51 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Libertarian anti-DMCA is fantasy In-Reply-To: <20010726013024.D2642@cluebot.com>; from declan@well.com on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 01:30:24AM -0400 References: <3B5F2ED9.448D70E6@sethf.com> <200107252335.QAA22855@shell3.ba.best.com> <20010725200329.B24110@cluebot.com> <20010725212236.A26607@sethf.com> <20010726013024.D2642@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010726034451.A27835@sethf.com> On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 01:30:24AM -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: > This could become an all-encompassing discussion that has little to > do with the purpose of this list. But Finkelstein makes some > allegations that are simply weird if not incomprehensible, and so > I'll try to correct them and simultaneously bring it back to Dmitry. Too bad you couldn't be troubled to quote them, so I have no idea what you mean. Not a promising start. Anyway ... > 1. Libertarian and conservative groups (not the same) are > newly-influential because of a new guy in the White House. Many think > tank types have gone to work for the Bush administration. There is a > close relationship, particularly with conservatives. None of this mattered to the passage of the DMCA in the first place. As you have complained, the DMCA was bipartisan. Despite what you may believe (see below), the DMCA was not a liberal/Democratic cause. So whatever the influence of think-tanks, even if Libertarians and conservatives had lesser influence, it seems to have mattered not at all. Zero. I've argued that the imperatives of campaign funding likely would have placed any Libertarian Senators in that 99-0 group too. This argument undercuts the irritating recruiting for the Libertarian Party. Now, I'm sure you will do a fine job of reaching out to those libertarian think-tanks. However, given the genesis of this thread in the promotion of the Libertarian Party, I think you have little basis to complain about "nutty propagandistic statements" which are "simply weird if not incomprehensible" (e.g. conjecturing the behavior of fantasy Senators based on "interviews" with some party officials). A serious issue you raise though, is if think-tanks of any political group have *any* chance of persuading Congress to amend the DMCA. I suspect the problem is that you are analyzing this in terms of ideology, and I am thinking about it mostly in terms of money and perhaps how to counter that huge war-chest on the other side. Arguments about "Why The DMCA Is Bad" are not exactly rare (even from conservatives). I believe it is a serious analysis error to put too much faith in a supposed killer philosophical argument. It makes for good column-filler and editorializing, but is severely limited in effectiveness (of course, after it fails, it can then be recycled all over again in that same column-filler and editorializing, as to how the world is going to hell in handbasket because the killer philosophical argument didn't work). If your argument is that activists need to have as wide as umbrella as possible, there's pros and cons. I don't think this list is the right place to discuss that. By the way Declan, in terms of politics and coalition building, there is a certain irony regarding the impetus of my developing the aphorism "The DMCA Is Libertarianism In Action". It was pushed by your out-and-out trolling the dvd-discuss list a few weeks back regarding how the DMCA was the "inevitable result of the last 100 years" where "This is what liberals wanted, and this is the inevitable consequence." Perhaps you could set a better example for me? -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From sethf at sethf.com Thu Jul 26 00:48:46 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] *Heavy sigh of exhaustion* References: <3B5FB31F.350E@indierecords.com> Message-ID: <3B5FCB5E.E5DBDFC9@sethf.com> Keith Handy wrote: > > How outrageously difficult would it be to transfer this discussion to a > slashdot-like website, with a similar rating-by-points system, and > threaded messages? Probably not hard. Just need a volunteer to set it up. (isn't that always the case?) I do wonder what the point-system would produce :-) > I've heard several other people say > that just reading all this is a full-time job, and I agree. "Me too". I've reached the point where I'm likely to head out. Apologies for adding to the problem with this one :-(. -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 26 01:35:54 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Status of SF Meeting In-Reply-To: <87itggi3dk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:57:43PM -0700 References: <87itggi3dk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010726013554.B17614@zork.net> Begin Klepht quotation: > Nick Moffitt is writing up a report from the meeting, which will be > posted here soon. We have a _lot_ we want to get done in the next 5 > days, and there's a lot of work to do. Okay, so here's my rundown: First of all, we all pretty much agreed that Monday, July 30 2001 is the time to hold our next demonstration. We also agreed that San Francisco was the ideal place to hold the thing, since no matter which lackey gets assigned to the case, it'll still be someone in the office of the DA of the NDOC etc. The plan is that we meet Monday at the Civic Center plaza (the central square with all of the knobbly trees) at 11:30. If the plaza is busy, we'll gather on the steps of the SF Main Public Library And Left-Handed Esperanto Teachers' Reading Room Hall. We march from there to the appropriate building, and make a lot of ruckus and hullabaloo. In order to pull this off, we need a few things: 1 Signs Thanks to Vadim and the UC Berkeley's XCF group, we will be hosting a Signmaking party on Sunday. See his announcement for details. 2 Press calling The verb "volunteer" became transitive when we used it on Don Marti for this one. Don, if you're not cool with this, just mail me off-list and we'll find someone else. 3 Press Kit/Position Paper/release Tabinda Khan and Kris Baakonen (apologies if, in my inebriation, I mistyped those) volunteered to work on this one. I have friends who are PR-types, but they may be excruciatingly busy this weekend and unable to pitch in. 4 Stickers Cheers to Justin Chueng for offering to make these. I think we're going for a simple sans-serif "FREE DMITRY" logo. 5 t-shirts I forgot who volunteered for this one. 6 Water/gatorade Apparently the sun-scorched desert of San Jose taught many of our stalwart protesters the value of hydration. Even though we're going to be doing a short demonstration in foggy San Francisco, screaming yourself hoarse demands fluid! Thanks to Evan Prodromou for allocating the $20 left over from the dinner pot to this purpose. 7 Calling the police Evan Prodromou has offered to call and make nice with the local constabulary. 8 Acquiring necessary amplification permits Since no one signed on for this, I'm giving it to Evan, since he offered to call the Police. In addition to the Monday demonstration and the SUnday signmaking party, we agreed that it would be good to canvas the BART stations. Part of the success of this effort is the fact that we have people everywhere fighting for our side. A simple act such as handing out fliers at the downtown BART stations can really spread the word throughout the system and catch the attention of many people. The Flier is to be based on Tabinda's original Adobe sheet, which Kris has offered to fix up for the adobeless event being planned. We agreed that it should cover basic points, not get into technical detail or tenuous analogies, and give the URL for more info. Passing these out at the Civic Center or Montgomery stations is a big win. On Thursday, we'll meet at noon at City Hall at around 4:30, and then venture to the civic center BART station. If we have enough people, we can send people to other stations quickly and easily. We'll need to coordinate the printing of these flyers NOW, though! We'll meet again at City Hall at 8:30am on Friday to catch the morning commute. If any of you can canvas at prominent East Bay stations (MacArthur? Oakland City Center?), that would be grand, too. Now I'll write up proper announcements for each of these events. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 26 01:36:54 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Was That It? In-Reply-To: ; from alexf@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 06:05:34PM -0700 References: <87zo9s4ink.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010726013654.C17614@zork.net> Begin Alex Fabrikant quotation: > Sklyarov Protest And Negotiation Kommittee perhaps? The problem is that "SPANK" would hit everyone's content filters. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 26 01:51:42 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Status of SF Meeting In-Reply-To: <20010726013554.B17614@zork.net> References: <87itggi3dk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010726013554.B17614@zork.net> Message-ID: <87y9pcf4yp.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt writes: NM> A simple act such as handing out fliers at the downtown BART NM> stations can really spread the word throughout the system and NM> catch the attention of many people. One thing to point out is that this is _not_ a protest. We will not be yelling, waving signs, or marching anywhere -- just passing out leaflets to passersby in a public area. It's an alternative to having a protest before Friday, because we want to support the EFF. NM> On Thursday, we'll meet at noon at City Hall at around 4:30, [...] Some might say that meeting at noon at around 4:30 is an impossibility. Try telling that to Bay Area Free Dmitry activists! We'll do whatever it takes! Seriously, some people are going to be in the Civic Center area around noon tomorrow for the lunch rush, and others will be back around 4:30 for the commute-time rush. Again, no signs, no chanting, pretty much zero group actions -- just handing out flyers. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From pedro at tastytronic.net Thu Jul 26 02:10:07 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Status of SF Meeting In-Reply-To: <87y9pcf4yp.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 01:51:42AM -0700 References: <87itggi3dk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010726013554.B17614@zork.net> <87y9pcf4yp.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010726041007.H26785@tastytronic.net> Quoting Klepht: > >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt writes: > > NM> A simple act such as handing out fliers at the downtown BART > NM> stations can really spread the word throughout the system and > NM> catch the attention of many people. > > One thing to point out is that this is _not_ a protest. We will not be > yelling, waving signs, or marching anywhere -- just passing out > leaflets to passersby in a public area. This is really excellent, because this is exactly what the Chicago folks are planning to do. pedro From pedro at tastytronic.net Thu Jul 26 02:11:29 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] LOOKING FOR CHICAGOLAND INFO? Message-ID: <20010726041128.I26785@tastytronic.net> If you haven't found this link yet, you haven't looked very hard -- but if you want to join us, we'd be happy to have you. http://ufo.chicago.il.us/free-sklyarov/ I'm getting really good at typing Sklyarov. Sklyarov! SKlyarov! Sklyarov! It really rolls off the fingers. pedro -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- FBI has imprisioned a Russian software engineer for promoting and teaching the concept of "fair use". Read more: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From debug at centras.lt Thu Jul 26 02:22:04 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Limited and Unlimited Resources Message-ID: <1738151542.20010726112204@centras.lt> 1) When i create a copy of information i do not steal that information. You still can make use of that information. When i crack a program i do not damage original one. People still can use original program instead of cracked one Original program owner can still further develope it. It is up to consumers to decide which product to use 2) copyrights and patents system is faulty (has inner contradictions) and public should reject it completely. The key question to be answered in order to resolve the problems with copyrights is: What is more important - the right to compete or the private property If we answer this question we can decide what to do with copyrights Now i dare to state that private property has inner contradictions in it and the right to compete has not. Let's discuss it: The essence is that unlimited resources (all kinds of unmaterial values) such as information does not require the notion of private property. If you open any book on macroeconomics right on the first pages you will read something like that: "Since resources are limited there is a need for private property" The fundamental law for me is *the right to compete* If resources/*means of production* are limited we have to decide who is going to operate them. We cannot allow everyone to possess/operate because we have limited quantity of resources. If i try to steal resources from you i violate *the right to compete* law because you will not be able to make use of these resources. This have led many people to think private property is fundamental. What we see here is that *the right to compete* does not contradict itself and in case of limited resources it introduces the notion of private property. if resources are unlimited i do not violate your right to compete with me when i steal some of those resources. There are still plenty of them. why to keep claiming private property rights and restrict *the right to compete* where we can allow everyone to compete. The essence of private property is to restrict the right to compete Who is going to decide that you operate your property good enough ? The market, namely your competitors. But if you grab all the resources available there is no space for competition. This is the inner contradiction in the notion of private property 3) Here is an example by copying your source code (that you treat as your intellectual property) i do not steal it from you. You still can further develope your source code and use it as mean of production. What i really steal from you is the NEEDS OF PEOPLE. But the needs of people does not belong to manufacturer, they naturally belong to consumers dot com industry problems just revealed that market of needs belong to consumers 4) One more issue to be adressed here. One person wrote me the following: > In my field, if I develop a patentable idea, my employer has a right > to patent it (or share in the patent -- depending on the terms of my > employment, IIRC). This is primarily because they pay me to develop > a product on "their time". Here is how i answered him: It is they (your employers) who decide to invest money and the risks of investment should be their too. Public should not be responsible for your employers' risks and government should not support their patents Your employers can only ask or sign a treaty with you that you will keep information in secret. But government should clearly say that if information went to public noone is going to protect their "patented" information. I think this would be honest from both sides ( i mean government and employers ) to clearly state NO PATENTS, NO COPYRIGHTS Personally i am ready to accept these rules and act according to them if i find my intellectual property stolen i will not go to court because i understand some people can pay and some cannot and that i am not the one to decide if they are right or wrong. This is because my product by their nature are unlimited in number. If my products where limited in number there would be a question who has more rights to use my product and the notion of social garanties distributor naturally would be introduced. -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt -- From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 26 02:32:37 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ANNOUNCEMENT: Free Dmitry Demonstration Monday 11:30am at SF Civic Center! Message-ID: <20010726023237.D17614@zork.net> With Adobe's show of good faith regarding Dmitry Sklyarov's persecution by the FBI and DOJ, we can declare last Monday's demonstration a success! But it is a limited success, in that Dmitry Sklyarov still sits in a federal holding cell in Las Vegas, awaiting the US Marshals to haul him away in chains to California. We can not simply let this happen! We cannot sit idly by and say to ourselves "Oh, I freed Dmitry last week! Why should I do it again?" The simple fact is that Dmitry is not free, despite the fact that NO ONE WANTS HIM IN JAIL! Adobe doesn't want him in jail! The general academic community doesn't want him in jail! The Electronic Publisher's Consortium doesn't want him in jail! The Free Software community doesn't want him in jail! Librarians don't want him in jail! Dmitry's wife and two children certainly do NOT want him in jail! LET IT BE KNOWN that we will bang on the doors of the towers of justice and demand in the loudest voice we have that they... 

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So here's how you can help us out! - Go to the signmaking party this Sunday. Check these mailing lists for the announcement, or mail vadim@xcf.berkeley.edu for details. - Make your own sign if you can't go to the party. Be sure that it is civil, and does not mention adobe. The key message that we want to hammer in is "FREE DMITRY", so make sure it says those two words *somewhere* on it. If you can't make a sign, just being there is good for the cause! - Call up the press and send them this announcement. Many of them missed the event in San Jose, and now's their chance to cover the FREE DMITRY movement! - Show up at San Francisco's Civic Center Plaza, Monday the 30th of June at 11:30am PDT. The site is accessible from BART, MUNI Metro, and any number of MUNI buses. It's the green square marked "City Hall Plaza" on the following map: http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=&city=San+Francisco&state=CA&slt=37.775002&sln=-122.418297&mlt=37.779300&mln=-122.417400&name=&zip=&country=us&BFKey=&BFCat=&BFClient=&mag=10&desc=&cs=7&newmag=9&poititle=&poi= You can spot us because we'll be the ones with the signs and the shirts that say "FREE DMITRY" on them. - Be ready to CALL THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ON THE CARPET! Be prepared to GIVE THEM A PIECE OF YOUR MIND! Tell these folks to DROP THE CASE because the DMCA is an UNJUST LAW! DEMAND that they return this man to his family PRONTO! Last Monday's events saw HUNDREDS of demonstrators crying for justice. The fact that this was achieved with little to no preparation speaks to the power and widespread respect for the Free Dmitry movement. We now have four days in which to prepare for this demonstration, so it will be spectacular! So join us now and FREE DMITRY! --Nick Moffitt, Coalition to Free Dmitry References: Free-Sklyarov e-mail mailing list: http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov/ Free-Sklyarov e-mail announcement list: https://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-announce Free Dmitry news page: http://freedmitry.org Free Sklyarov info page: http://freesklyarov.org Electronic Frontier Foundation: http://eff.org -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From tabindak at best.com Thu Jul 26 02:32:24 2001 From: tabindak at best.com (Tabinda N. Khan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Status of SF Meeting In-Reply-To: <20010726013554.B17614@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 01:35:54AM -0700 References: <87itggi3dk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010726013554.B17614@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010726023224.A9880@shell9.ba.best.com> Quoting Nick Moffitt: > > The Flier is to be based on Tabinda's original Adobe sheet, which Kris > has offered to fix up for the adobeless event being planned. We > agreed that it should cover basic points, not get into technical > detail or tenuous analogies, and give the URL for more info. Passing > these out at the Civic Center or Montgomery stations is a big win. Maybe I misunderstood, but I just spent the evening re-doing the flyer, so Kris doesn't need to do it. Also, I thought we had Don down for working on the press kit in addition to calling the press. Tabinda -- From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 26 02:33:58 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Status of SF Meeting In-Reply-To: <87y9pcf4yp.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 01:51:42AM -0700 References: <87itggi3dk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010726013554.B17614@zork.net> <87y9pcf4yp.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010726023357.E17614@zork.net> Begin Klepht quotation: > NM> On Thursday, we'll meet at noon at City Hall at around 4:30, [...] > > Some might say that meeting at noon at around 4:30 is an > impossibility. Try telling that to Bay Area Free Dmitry activists! > We'll do whatever it takes! D'oh. Guiness is good for some things, but time/space relationships it's not! -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 26 02:40:09 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Status of SF Meeting In-Reply-To: <20010726023224.A9880@shell9.ba.best.com>; from tabindak@best.com on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 02:32:24AM -0700 References: <87itggi3dk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010726013554.B17614@zork.net> <20010726023224.A9880@shell9.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <20010726024009.G17614@zork.net> Begin Tabinda N. Khan quotation: > Quoting Nick Moffitt: > > The Flier is to be based on Tabinda's original Adobe sheet, which > > Kris has offered to fix up for the adobeless event being planned. > > We agreed that it should cover basic points, not get into > > technical detail or tenuous analogies, and give the URL for more > > info. Passing these out at the Civic Center or Montgomery > > stations is a big win. > > Maybe I misunderstood, but I just spent the evening re-doing the > flyer, so Kris doesn't need to do it. Also, I thought we had Don > down for working on the press kit in addition to calling the press. Splendid! In that case I take back everything I've said about how shoddy your work is and how lazy Don is! Er, nevermind! Thanks for working on the flyer. That's a real time-sensitive issue. I'll have to write up a leafletting announcement soon. Do you have the file up for download somewhere? How should we coordinate the printing of it? -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 26 02:42:38 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Was That It? In-Reply-To: <20010725174224.H14917@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 05:42:24PM -0700 References: <87y9pc6090.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010725164941.Y14917@zork.net> <87ae1s5xyy.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010725174224.H14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010726024238.H17614@zork.net> Begin The ASCII Floating Head of Seth David Schoen quotation: > Plus, Bay Area Free Sklyarov (can anybody thing of a catchy acronym? > "San Francisco Free Sklyarov"'s acronym is a palindrome) is meeting > in about two hours. So all of you around here who want to talk > strategy and protests should get ready for that. Well, I needed a name for the announcement, so I chose "Coalition to Free Dmitry". We managed to get a good 13 people to arrive for an ad-hoc poorly announced planning meeting. Is that crazy or what? It's like you whisper the name Dmitry, and suddenly fifty geeks perk up and ask how they can help. I've been very impressed with the amount of support we've been getting! Beaujolais to solidarity! -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 26 02:50:57 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [free-sklyarov-sfba] ANNOUNCEMENT: Free Dmitry Demonstration Monday 11:30am at SF Civic Center! In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010726023910.0263bd30@mail.maden.org>; from crism@maden.org on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 02:40:56AM -0700 References: <20010726023237.D17614@zork.net> <5.0.2.1.0.20010726023910.0263bd30@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <20010726025057.I17614@zork.net> begin Christopher R. Maden quotation: > At 02:32 26-07-2001, you wrote: > >- Go to the signmaking party this Sunday. Check these mailing lists > > for the announcement, or mail vadim@xcf.berkeley.edu for details. > > There doesn't seem to be such an announcement in the archives. An oversight which I hope Vadim will rectify soon! > >- Show up at San Francisco's Civic Center Plaza, Monday the 30th of > > June at 11:30am PDT. > > Is this in addition to, or instead of, the proposed protest on > Saturday in San Jos?? I've only seen one person talk about that > protest. I'm not certain as to why anyone would protest in San Jose on a Saturday. Do people go to the SJ Federal building on Saturdays much? I don't understand who would be there to see it. I think that the San Jose protest was tentative, and I don't remember who proposed it. > Are responses to things like this appropriate to the list, or should > they be announcements only? By all means, take discussion to the lists! -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Thu Jul 26 03:10:00 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Moscow protest: more photoes References: <20010725215006.L26785@tastytronic.net> <20010725221022.Q26785@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: <003901c115bb$25550100$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, All! More photoes from Moscow protest are availiable from OGONYOK, famous Russian Weekly Magazine: http://www.ropnet.ru/ogonyok/ksnsoft/miting/ Thank you, Vladimir Smolyakov! - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From jenn at simegen.com Thu Jul 26 03:17:43 2001 From: jenn at simegen.com (jenn@simegen.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Harming American Interests References: Message-ID: <3B5FEE47.60202@simegen.com> Eric Tully wrote: > I think the key is that he broke American law by distributing it > on the Internet and then he set foot on American soil. I mean, > if you're going to break American law in a way that "harms" American > interests, I think you *should* be arrested if you come to American > soil. Um. As is probably blatantly obvious: I don't. By that logic, I need to know US-American law better than I know the laws of the country I live in, lest I unwittingly break US-American law then go visit the States. I also need to know UK law. I would like to go there one day. Oh, and Singaporean law, in case I get a contract there. And some of the people I work with had to go to Taiwan. Hm. What if I need to go to both Taiwan AND China? Or Tibet and China, or Pakistan and India, or any other pairs of nations where the interest of one is not the interest of the other? I think that it's a ridiculous proposition, Eric, and if you applied it to yourself and inserted 'Russian' where you had put 'American', you would probably find yourself agreeing. If not - then let's agree to disagree. But I -don't- agree with that proposition, and I think it's completely infeasible in the real world. Jenn V. -- "Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer. jenn@simegen.com Jenn Vesperman http://www.simegen.com/~jenn/ From tom at lemuria.org Thu Jul 26 03:23:03 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Please, get a grip. Was: (Fox letter about the DMCA to ISPs) In-Reply-To: <20010725125412.J14160@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 12:54:12PM -0700 References: <20010724150134.F7908@networkcommand.com> <20010725185904.C17322@lemuria.org> <20010725125412.J14160@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010726122300.B31719@lemuria.org> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 12:54:12PM -0700, Jon O . wrote: > Look! You guys are discussing the problem not the solution. > If no one was stealing these movies, the MPAA and RIAA would > have no grounds for the DMCA. So, quit talking about the bait, > and discourage people stealing this stuff whenever possible. look, we are not and have no influence on the people "stealing"(1) this stuff, so there's nothing we can do about that. however, we heavily object to using this as a pretext for a power grab that extends far beyond the understandable desire to avoid widespread unauthorized distribution. in short: ask me whether I oppose burglary and I'm firmly on your side. ask me to outlaw lock picks and I'll just look at you as if you'd be insane. (1) it's not really stealing since there is no property involved, but rather a right violation. anyone got a good term to use as a replacement? From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 26 03:20:49 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ANNOUNCEMENT: Free Dmitry leafletting in SF BART Thursday noon, Thursday 4:30pm, and Friday 8:30am Message-ID: <20010726032049.J17614@zork.net> The Free Dmitry movement is not just about protests and legal talk. It is also about LETTING PEOPLE KNOW about the injustices perpetrated against Dmitry Sklyarov. Demonstrations are a great way to get press attention, but sometimes we can't wait for the press. Sometimes we have to take matters into our own hands. The Russian word "samizdat" means "self publishing". It refers to the process of distributing information through underground channels. It means that sometimes a piece of information is so important that it will be distributed regardless of what those controlling the official publication channels would do with it. Thursday, 26 July 2001 and Friday the 27th are the days when we will hand out flyers to the thousands of commuters on the Bay Area Rapid Transit system. BART carries more passengers in a single day than the US's largest airline, and they travel to all parts of the Bay Area. We will meet at the City Hall Plaza at noon for a lunchtime leafletting in the area, and then again at 4:30pm to catch the rush hour commuters on their way home. The leaflets passed out in downtown San Francisco will follow these people as far as Pleasanton, Bay Point, Fremont, Colma, and Richmond. We will do this again on Friday morning at 8:30am to catch these commuters on their way in to work. This is an important prelude to the Monday demonstration! It is not a protest, rally, or any other such ruckus raising. We're simply going to hand out informational pamphlets that explain to the lay commuter what the facts of Dmitry's case are. So, once again, here's how you can help out! - Mail ctfd@zork.net and offer to print up a run of these leaflets for the event. The location of the flyer should be posted to these mailing lists relatively soon. - Show up on Thursday at noon or 4:30pm, or on Friday at 8:30am, at the City Hall Plaza. We will be near the San Francisco Main Public Library, and should be holding boxes of flyers. The location is right next to the Civic Center BART and MUNI Metro station, and is the green square in the center of this map: http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=&city=San+Francisco&state=CA&slt=37.775002&sln=-122.418297&mlt=37.779300&mln=-122.417400&name=&zip=&country=us&BFKey=&BFCat=&BFClient=&mag=10&desc=&cs=7&newmag=9&poititle=&poi= - Hand out leaflets calmly and respectfully. DO NOT FORCE THEM ON PEOPLE and DO NOT MAKE A MESS. Simply hold them out, perhaps calmly invite people to free Dmitry, and thank people when they take fliers. We may send people to other stations in order to reach more commuters, but only if we have enough volunteers. If you're late, just look for us in or around the BART station! We should be handing out leaflets for about an hour or two during the commute times, in order to reach enough people. Free Dmitry! --Nick Moffitt, Coalition to Free Dmitry -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 26 03:23:14 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Status of SF Meeting In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010726025639.0263d580@mail.maden.org>; from crism@maden.org on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 02:57:10AM -0700 References: <87itggi3dk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <87itggi3dk.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010726013554.B17614@zork.net> <5.0.2.1.0.20010726025639.0263d580@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <20010726032314.K17614@zork.net> begin Christopher R. Maden quotation: > At 01:35 26-07-2001, you wrote: > >The plan is that we meet Monday at the Civic Center plaza (the central > >square with all of the knobbly trees) at 11:30. If the plaza is busy, > >we'll gather on the steps of the SF Main Public Library And > >Left-Handed Esperanto Teachers' Reading Room Hall. > > Hey! I'm a left-handed Esperanto teacher (or was) - what's it to you? > > (-: This actually started as a joke because we found out on one mailing list that an inordinate number of people were left-handed vegetarian Esperanto teachers. I believe both Klepht and Seth David Schoen share this honor. Since then it has become a sort of de-facto example of a special interest group. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From jenn at simegen.com Thu Jul 26 03:39:00 2001 From: jenn at simegen.com (jenn@simegen.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Disks References: Message-ID: <3B5FF344.8040009@simegen.com> > NO! You can't win a legal battle by hiding very obvious facts. There > were at least 3 FBI agents that I am aware of sitting in the room > watching. Do you think that they don't know that he had these discs? > What we have to do is figure out how to downplay it so that the > insignificance of it is obvious. Like I said before, he only had > about 15 discs and they were crippled demos. 25 pages of an entire book, for the purpose of academic presentation? I believe that comes under the '10% for Fair Use' provisions of the international Copyright treaties. Note: the ten percent figure is coming from my memory of the signs above library photocopiers, in Australia. Have whoever's doing legal stuff here get the exact USA figures - but it sounds like a clear case of Fair Use to me. The only problem is which law overrides - international Copyright treaties & the laws that support those, or the DCMA. Jenn V. -- "Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer. jenn@simegen.com Jenn Vesperman http://www.simegen.com/~jenn/ From jtjm at xenoclast.org Thu Jul 26 03:40:16 2001 From: jtjm at xenoclast.org (Julian T J Midgley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] UK Free-Sklyarov Mailing List In-Reply-To: <3B5EE907.D2940D9E@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: I have created a mailing list called 'free-sklyarov-uk' for those of us in the UK to use for planning protests, etc. You can subscribe to the list at: http://mailman.xenoclast.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-uk And you will also find links from there to the list archive page, which is, of course, currently completely empty. Julian Midgley -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F From huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com Thu Jul 26 03:39:29 2001 From: huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com (huaiyu_zhu@yahoo.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Rights vs capabilities Message-ID: Quote from BusinessWeek Online (http://biz.yahoo.com/bizwk/010725/u2uwdgj7_smmdbiz41ntqa.html) To be sure, the stated purpose of Sklyarov's software makes logical sense. [...] That still doesn't give anyone the right to violate copyrights, if, in fact, that's what Sklyarov did. How to combat such media disinformation? Here're some thoughts. The general media often confuse rights with capabilities. They miss the fact that having a capability does not automatically gives one a right. Often a capability can be used to exercise A's rights, and also to infringe on B's rights. They usually describe it purely in terms of an "infringement capability". They also automatically approve B's attempt to restrict A's such capability, regardless of the fact that the restrictions might in turn infringe on A's right of fair use. If A is actually a group of entities, such as consumers, they often cite the worst member of A to justify the severest restriction applied to all members of A. In other words, if one consumer steals, all consumers are treated as potential thieves. They describe attempts of restoring A's capability purely in terms of circumventing the protection against infringing B's rights, instead of in terms of A's legal usage. In summary, when the rights of two parties conflict due to dual usage of a specific capability, the media's view is very much skewed in favor of restricting such capabilities to protect the rights of one side, without taking into account that such restrictions may also severely infringe the rights of the other side. This kind of logic, when used to control thoughts, is very reminiscent of the excuses used by totalitarian regimes: giving freedom to people might allow someone to do some bad things. This is exactly what the First Ammendment is designed to prevent. We need to let the media see this point. This is not about property rights per se. It is about taking away a right from one group just because the necessary capability to exercise this right may also be used to infringe on the rights of another group. "If we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion by education." - Thomas Jefferson Huaiyu Zhu From tom at lemuria.org Thu Jul 26 04:16:58 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] broaden the movement In-Reply-To: <200107251513070130.058F443C@64.51.184.34>; from randy@middlewest.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 03:13:07PM -0500 References: <996089980.27500.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200107251513070130.058F443C@64.51.184.34> Message-ID: <20010726131654.C31719@lemuria.org> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 03:13:07PM -0500, Randy Rathbun wrote: > The word "crippled" has much more of a punch to it. It is a word that > scares a lot of people. we should learn a lesson from the PR-driven enemy - let's collect a dictionary of terms. I volunteer. this is especially important as our opponents are quite versed in using linguistics to their advantage. anything they don't like has a term that has a negative feeling - piracy, hackers, stealing. anything they like sounds honourable, solid and positive - intellectual property, technological protection measure, all that crap. I'll set up a webpage and collect stuff. this is most surely off-topic for this list, so I guess I'll start one of my own for discussions. From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Thu Jul 26 04:15:15 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit References: <200107260732.f6Q7Wgc30300@phil.hintz.org> Message-ID: <3B5FFBC3.7D63BE8D@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Cheers. I'll keep the offer at heart. Onwards. Seth Johnson "Edmund A. Hintz" wrote: > > Just got a reply regarding this thread. In my opinion, Oxana is one smart > woman-again given her context-her close to the vest method of playing is > very well advised. And I can't help but think of Miranda rights from what > she says... From her reply: > > >But now even here in Moscow I don't give any interview becouse any of > >my words could be use against Dima. I hope evrything will be > >successfull and a lot of thanks for all of kinde people which protect > >Dima . > > That's why I think I mightn't fly anythere (even if I would like it...) > > You could tell about my words as you prefer and don't worry about From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Thu Jul 26 04:18:48 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology References: <20010726092359.C29688@3soft.de> Message-ID: <3B5FFC98.68413A8F@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> > > Suggestions so far are: > > > > 1) Copy controlled media > > 2) Usage controlled media > > 3) Crippled media (My suggestion) > > - Access-restricted media > - Access-limited media Another: - Unproductive format/media/etc. Seth Johnson From tom at lemuria.org Thu Jul 26 04:24:48 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fox letter about the DMCA to ISPs In-Reply-To: <3B5F326C.B3C06DD9@sethf.com>; from sethf@sethf.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 04:56:12PM -0400 References: <20010724150134.F7908@networkcommand.com> <20010725095253.C29863@lemuria.org> <3B5F326C.B3C06DD9@sethf.com> Message-ID: <20010726132446.D31719@lemuria.org> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 04:56:12PM -0400, Seth Finkelstein wrote: > It's called being "Tough On Crime". and I thought it's called "police state". silly me. From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Thu Jul 26 04:33:31 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: UK Free-Sklyarov Mailing List References: Message-ID: <3B60000B.6573A551@sheffield.ac.uk> Julian T J Midgley wrote: > I have created a mailing list called 'free-sklyarov-uk' for those of us in > the UK to use for planning protests, etc. > > You can subscribe to the list at: > > http://mailman.xenoclast.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-uk > > And you will also find links from there to the list archive page, which > is, of course, currently completely empty. > > Julian Midgley > > -- > Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org > Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F I've just spoken to Radio Sheffield. As I suspected, they hadn't got a clue of what's going on. They sayd:"so.. he was arrested because.. he has.. stolen a chip or something.. is that true?". I had only about two minutes to explain my point, I said only about 10% of what I wanted. Here is what I wanted to say: --------- It is obvious for everyone now that Dmitry is absolutely innocent. Adobe said in their last statement: ?Elcomsoft?s Advanced eBook Processor software is no longer available in the United States and from that prospective the DMCA worked?. This means that all Adobe wanted was to stop the selling of Elcomsoft?s software! And to get this they acted like hijackers ? they did not choose the person responsible for that software (who obviously would be the director of Elcomsoft (and I?d like to remind you that there were 3 people from Elcomsoft attending this conference and among them was the Elcomsoft?s director)). So, instead of making the civil case ?Adobe vs Elcomsoft? they?ve chosen the most vulnerable person available who was Dmitry (probably if Dmitry would go there with his family they would arrest his wife and children instead of him!). They used the power of FBI and created the criminal case ?United States vs Dmitry Sklyarov?. This is really terrible. The huge power of FBI was used to protect Adobe financial interests. And this power was used in the most primitive, brutal way ? arrest. I do not believe that Adobe did not know when they complained to FBI that Dmitry would be arrested because he is Russian. I do not believe that Adobe lawyers did not know that Dmitry would not even be released on bail! I think they knew it and they wanted it! This is pure hypocrisy! Just think about this: Dmitry is innocent (even Adobe recognised this and finally, after a strong pressure from many people and organisations around the world said that he should be released from the federal custody). Well, I do not need them to know that Dmitry is innocent. I?ve known him for 10 years now as a bright student at Moscow State Technical University, as a supportive husband and a father of two young children and as a top-level researcher in electronic security. He neither has ever been involved in any ?hacker-cracker? groups nor he ever has been involved in any illegal activities. He is very law-abiding person. So, he is innocent and.. he is in jail, in a foreign country, with poor English, far away from his family (his wife Oxana and the two children, son Egor, 2.5 years old and daughter Polina, only 3 mohths old, they have no money to visit him even if they will be allowed. At present they aren?t). There is no reliable information about his whereabouts; no one knows where and when he?ll turn out next. And all this because one American software giant did not like another Russian software company? Is it fair? How can it be explained that Russian consul still (after 10 days) haven?t got a permission to see Dmitry and at the same time one local TV company took an interview with Dmitry on Friday or even Thursday last week? Isn?t it humiliation? I?m really very worried about Dmitry especially bearing in mind that organisations like FBI never admit that they were wrong! No matter what happens ? they are always right! Now they?ll try to prove that Dmitry is guilty at all costs. I think Adobe is carrying the full responsibility of all this mess. I think they should pay for the plane tickets for Oxana and her two children so they could come to the USA and Dmitry could be released on bail. He is being treated like a very dangerous criminal! This mis-justice must not be tolerated! Finally I would like to repeat the words of two of the leading British scientists. Alan Cox, the leading developer of Linux operating system said: ?With the arrest of Dimitry Sklyarov it has become apparent that it is not safe for non US software engineers to visit the United States. While he was undoubtedly chosen for political reasons as a Russian as a good example for the US public the risk extends arbitrarily further. Until the DMCA mess is resolved I would urge all non US citizens to boycott conferences in the USA and all US conference bodies to hold their conferences elsewhere.? Ross Anderson, a reader in security engineering at Cambridge University said that "there is a question whether it will be prudent to hold certain types of security conferences in the U.S. in the future.(?) We can't really tolerate a situation where anyone who breaks a system that embarrasses someone gets served with a writ." So there is a real threat for all non USA researchers!! And this is happening now!!! All the information is on www.freesklyarov.org ----------- anton From tom at lemuria.org Thu Jul 26 04:40:25 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Libertarian anti-DMCA is fantasy In-Reply-To: <878zhcvgpb.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 02:31:28PM -0700 References: <200107251721.KAA22632@shell3.ba.best.com> <87y9pcdes0.fsf@mathdogs.com> <20010725145749.A14066@ofhell.org> <20010725161508.A16729@cluebot.com> <3B5F2ED9.448D70E6@sethf.com> <20010725140907.F16094@zork.net> <878zhcvgpb.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010726134021.E31719@lemuria.org> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 02:31:28PM -0700, Klepht wrote: > NM> Crap. I seem to have subscribed to troll-declan@zork.net. > NM> How do I unsubscribe??!!?!!!! > > Jeez, I know! We're all on the same team here, folks. Infighting is > the best way to derail this effort. and once this movement has gained momentum, expect infiltrators to try exactly that. From zawadzki at yahoo.com Thu Jul 26 04:40:31 2001 From: zawadzki at yahoo.com (mark zawadzki) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] United IT Workers Union? Message-ID: <20010726114031.50157.qmail@web9601.mail.yahoo.com> United IT Workers Union? What about something like other professional's organizations - ASE, ABA, AMA ? Mark Zawadzki Eastern Pa. Director, Mid-Atlantic Chapter, Clan Cameron If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my shoulders.-- Hal Abelson In computer science, we stand on each other's feet. -- Brian K. Reed --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010726/683361d3/attachment.html From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Jul 26 04:47:54 2001 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. morning in San Jose In-Reply-To: <007401c1155d$b0b0c080$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: <20010726044754.C21489@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> Herewith, a brief note about intelligent event planning. (I'm for it.) roylo wrote: > I'm planning to hold a protest at U.S. Attorney for the Northern District > of California office in San Jose at 10:00am this Sat. I assume more rather than fewer people from the technical / Linux / BSD / coder communities would be seen as A Very Good Thing. Now, those communities have popular (and usually regular) events, planned way in advance, on (e.g.) certain Saturdays. And, pursuant to that, we have calendars -- which roylo and others might want to consult to prevent avoidable conflicts. I happen to maintain one of the most-used such calendars for the San Francisco Bay Area, "BALE": http://linuxmafia.com/bale/ Had they roylo checked it before announcing the Saturday protest, he'd have noticed the CABAL/BALUG/BAFUG/SVBUG Linux InstallFest and BSD Install-a-thon, Saturday 10-4, at the Cow Palace (which I'm helping to run). I think substantially all of us who are already committed to be at the Cow Palace _would_ have attended a San Jose "free Dmitri" protest at pretty much _any_ non-conflicting time. I certainly would have. Ruth Shanen maintains a similar calendar for the New York City area: http://pw1.netcom.com/~casandra/linux/calendar.html -- Cheers, "Orthodoxy is my doxy. Heterodoxy is someone else's doxy." Rick Moen -- William Warburton, Bishop of Gloucester (1698-1779) rick@linuxmafia.com From david.haworth at altavista.net Thu Jul 26 04:53:05 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Please, get a grip. Was: (Fox letter about the DMCA to ISPs) In-Reply-To: <20010726122300.B31719@lemuria.org>; from tom@lemuria.org on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 12:23:03PM +0200 References: <20010724150134.F7908@networkcommand.com> <20010725185904.C17322@lemuria.org> <20010725125412.J14160@networkcommand.com> <20010726122300.B31719@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20010726135305.A29846@3soft.de> On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 12:23:03PM +0200, Tom wrote: > (1) it's not really stealing since there is no property involved, but > rather a right violation. anyone got a good term to use as a > replacement? Hi Tom, How does "copying" sound? Dave -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From tom at lemuria.org Thu Jul 26 04:59:15 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] broaden the movement In-Reply-To: ; from sacraver@EE.Princeton.EDU on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 07:13:25PM -0400 References: <996100901.27794.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20010726135912.F31719@lemuria.org> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 07:13:25PM -0400, Xcott Craver wrote: > "Copy control" is an incomplete and inaccurate term, because > copying is just one aspect controlled by DRM systems. > A much better and effective term would be "usage control." > > The term "copy control" is advantageous to copyright owners, > by limiting the debate to piracy and only some examples of > fair use. Many really good examples of fair use don't involve > a desire to make a copy at all: simply wanting to watch a > DVD that you bought, or simply wanting to read an eBook, but > being prevented by overly paranoid security. both are somewhat awkward and not entirely correct. may I suggest a simple "restricted" ? (or possibly a synonym with an even more negative feel) From pmasloch at earthlink.net Thu Jul 26 05:22:51 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010725222510.03691c40@ideasuite.com> Message-ID: But you forgot one importent thing. Dmitry didn't sell the software by himself. It was the Company (ElcomSoft) for which he is working. This is a different picture. The DoJ has to go after the Company and not after one Employee. From this point of view, Dmitry's arrest has no legal background because he personaly did not violate the DMCA law other then just speaking about the software. And this should be protected by the right of free speach. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org I'm finding that some people think that the FBI had a right to arrest him (under the currently flawed DMCA) and other people think that they had no right to arrest him. If the FBI had no right to arrest him, then this wouldn't be a programming issue. It wouldn't be a free speech issue. It wouldn't even be a DMCA issue. If the FBI had no right to arrest him, then any decent lawyer would simply stand in front of the judge and say, "I have tons of precedent showing that Russians aren't subject to American laws, you have to let him go." And the judge would. But I don't think that's the case. Columbian drug lords sell cocaine to middle men who bring it to the US and because of extradition laws, we drag the kingpins here and try them in American courts (when we can catch them!). The fact that they were in Columbia when they broke American law was irrelevent. They did something that affected Americans. I think the key is that he broke American law by distributing it on the Internet and then he set foot on American soil. I mean, if you're going to break American law in a way that "harms" American interests, I think you *should* be arrested if you come to American soil. (Don't get me wrong, I don't think he harmed Adobe and I think the DMCA is unjust legislation that should be repealed. But I don't think that the arrest was illegal under current law.) I know people will disagree with me on this. I'd be interested in a lawyer's comment. - Eric At 12:17 PM 7/26/01 +1000, you wrote: > > After talking with some friends of mine, and long discussions; here > > is what I came up with. > > Even, I feel that US has no right arresting Sklyarov; but under > > DMCA the FBI "did" have the right to arrest Sklyarov. > > So, we pretty much don't have a case against the DoJ and the > > chances of Sklyarov getting the jail time is high. > > (I don't like this anymore then you guys do; but that is what > > might happen) > >Um. What did Sklyarov do *IN THE USA* that was against US law? > >As I understand it, he did something *in Russia* that is against >US law, but NOT against Russian law. > >As I understand it, all he did in the USA that was even remotely >potentially 'wrong' was present an academic paper. > > > > >Jenn V. >-- > "Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture > you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer. > >jenn@simegen.com Jenn Vesperman http://www.simegen.com/~jenn/ > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From tom at lemuria.org Thu Jul 26 05:26:43 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] United IT Workers Union? In-Reply-To: <01072521434300.03075@frankie>; from ausage@ausage.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 09:43:43PM -0400 References: <20010725173309.37155.qmail@web9607.mail.yahoo.com> <20010725130713.K14160@networkcommand.com> <01072521434300.03075@frankie> Message-ID: <20010726142640.H31719@lemuria.org> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 09:43:43PM -0400, Andrew Lawrence wrote: > > This is a good idea. We need to get the Open Source people and > > Alan Cox behind it. We need a kind of United IT Workers Union real > > quick. > > > > There is a mailing list here: > > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/IT_Union > > > > Sign up. We need to organize on a larger scale. > > > > Can a "boss" join your union? Perhaps "Guild" might be a better word. turning it into an actual union might have a TON of legal advantages. From pmasloch at earthlink.net Thu Jul 26 05:24:55 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mail to Congress people In-Reply-To: <20010726032900.73064.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I am 170 miles away from D.C. but i'm willing to make a trip or two. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of alfee cube Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 11:29 PM To: Kastlyn; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Mail to Congress people kastlyn makes me think it might be a good idea to have some people in washington willing to print out email letters and deliver hard copies to reps, sens and committee members? kind like a "washington office" for free sklyarov. --- Kastlyn wrote: > I'm willing to act as a mail-drop for anyone > who would like to send a > letter to Sen. Hatch. I could probably even, if > several people write > letters, just hand-deliver them to his Utah office, > if people want their > letters to get there REAL fast. =} > -=Amie=- > > On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Pablos Kadrevis wrote: > > > Here's someone who needs some feedback about how > to help. > > > > pablos. > > > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > Date: Thursday, July 26, 2001 9:28 AM +1000 > > From: "jenn@simegen.com" > > To: "wtf@rejectmueller.com" > > > Subject: Non-US programmers > > > > I have been thinking about what those of us who do > NOT live in the > > USA can do. > > > > I assume that those of you who do live there are > aware that most of > > us (Open Source programmers, etc) are now wary of > ever going to the > > USA for any reason. > > > > I was wondering if there was someone in the US > Congress who needs > > this pointed out to them - possibly by an email > campaign. > > (Snail mail from Australia to the USA takes two > weeks - we do NOT > > want to make Dmitry wait that long!) > > > > Alternatively, if the relevent Congresspeople only > have snail mail, > > someone in the USA could act as a letter-drop for > those of us > > outside the USA to email, that US person could > print and send the > > collected emails on our behalf. > > > > > > Please let me know when you know what you're going > to do here. > > I emailed Adobe, but am reluctant to snail-mail > Meuller's office - > > as I said, it'd take too FSCKING long to arrive. > > > > Sincerely > > (because, dammit, I want to be able to go to > conventions and > > conferences without expecting arrest...) > > > > > > > > Jenn V. > > -- > > "Do you ever wonder if there's a whole > section of geek culture > > you miss out on by being a geek?" - > Dancer. > > > > jenn@simegen.com Jenn Vesperman > http://www.simegen.com/~jenn/ > > > > > > ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- > > > > > > -- > > Pablos Kadrevis > > pablos@kadrevis.com > > 415.420.3806 > > www.shmoo.com/~pablos > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From tom at lemuria.org Thu Jul 26 05:30:22 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mail to Congress people In-Reply-To: ; from kastlyn@unixtribe.net on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 10:19:09PM -0500 References: <3635089.996078812@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <20010726143019.J31719@lemuria.org> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 10:19:09PM -0500, Kastlyn wrote: > I'm willing to act as a mail-drop for anyone who would like to send a > letter to Sen. Hatch. I could probably even, if several people write > letters, just hand-deliver them to his Utah office, if people want their > letters to get there REAL fast. =} what formats? postscript? LaTeX? From tom at lemuria.org Thu Jul 26 05:33:20 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010725222510.03691c40@ideasuite.com>; from eric@tully.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:11:24PM -0400 References: <3B5F7DCF.1030302@simegen.com> <5.0.2.1.2.20010725222510.03691c40@ideasuite.com> Message-ID: <20010726143317.K31719@lemuria.org> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:11:24PM -0400, Eric Tully wrote: > Columbian drug lords sell cocaine to middle men who bring it to the US and > because of extradition laws, we drag the kingpins here and try them in > American courts (when we can catch them!). The fact that they were in > Columbia when they broke American law was irrelevent. They did something > that affected Americans. > > I think the key is that he broke American law by distributing it on the > Internet and then he set foot on American soil. I mean, if you're going to > break American law in a way that "harms" American interests, I think you > *should* be arrested if you come to American soil. there's a very important difference there: the columbian drug lord knowingly and purposefully TARGETS america. putting something on the internet is a "broadcast" action, and definitely not targeted on america (even if it may be difficult for some to comprehend that there ARE things going on in the world that do not revolve around the USofA). From mscottaline at yahoo.com Thu Jul 26 04:46:04 2001 From: mscottaline at yahoo.com (Michael Scottaline) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010725222510.03691c40@ideasuite.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010726074328.009eb330@popmail.i-2000.com> At 08:22 AM 7/26/01 -0400, Peter wrote: >But you forgot one importent thing. Dmitry didn't sell the software by >himself. It was the Company (ElcomSoft) for which he is working. This is >a different picture. The DoJ has to go after the Company and not after >one Employee. From this point of view, Dmitry's arrest has no legal >background because he personaly did not violate the DMCA law other then >just speaking about the software. And this should be protected by the >right of free speach. >Peter Hmmm..., but what about the CD's he distributed at the conference?? Even though they contained "limited" editions of the legally questionable software, might that not violate the regrettable law? Even distributing for "free" constitutes "sale", at least as far as drug distribution goes. Mike _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Thu Jul 26 05:53:24 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] two questions References: Message-ID: <3B6012C4.DCF96F3D@sheffield.ac.uk> 1. Does anyone know who has opened a paypal account for Dmitry? How can I be sure that it is Dmitry who'll get the money? Who is dmitry@shmoo.com? https://www.paypal.com/xclick/business=dmitry%40shmoo.com&item_name=Dmitry+Sklyarov&no_shipping=1 2. Is there anyone in the list who knows a local executive in SF of San Jose? Can this executive employ Dmitry? This would really help to release him on bail. anton From tom at lemuria.org Thu Jul 26 05:58:52 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Reasons why the United States should free Dimitry In-Reply-To: <01072601193901.03127@frankie>; from ausage@ausage.com on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 01:19:39AM -0400 References: <01072601193901.03127@frankie> Message-ID: <20010726145848.N31719@lemuria.org> On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 01:19:39AM -0400, Andrew Lawrence wrote: > 5) There has been no crime (alternate arguement). Unlike DVD's, there are > eBooks in the public domain. (see Adobe web site for a complete list of > titles). This makes ABEPR a tool to access "unprotected" works. correction: we know of at least one DVD that contains a movie in the public domain. (I don't remember the title, but it was one of the earliest hollywood movies, repacked on DVD quite recently) From david at lupercalia.net Thu Jul 26 06:02:06 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Next protest? In-Reply-To: <20010726011800.C2642@cluebot.com>; from declan@well.com on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 01:17:38AM -0400 References: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F99@ryentes1.mobius.com> <0107252026510B.19049@bilbo.blorch.org> <01072523393400.23950@lorien> <20010726011800.C2642@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010726090206.E21822@lupercalia.net> On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 01:17:38AM -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: > Keep in mind that nearly all congresscritters are gone during > the summer recess, roughly ~5 Aug to ~5 Sep. I think our route to overturning the DMCA has to start with the people, not the Congress. They will never repeal it without pressure coming from Americans who support free speech and fair use, and oppose corporate control of our society. So, I don't think this is a big problem, really. Besides, USENIX is too big an opportunity to pass up on. -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ From declan at well.com Thu Jul 26 06:19:27 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Libertarian anti-DMCA is fantasy In-Reply-To: <20010726034451.A27835@sethf.com>; from sethf@sethf.com on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 03:44:51AM -0400 References: <3B5F2ED9.448D70E6@sethf.com> <200107252335.QAA22855@shell3.ba.best.com> <20010725200329.B24110@cluebot.com> <20010725212236.A26607@sethf.com> <20010726013024.D2642@cluebot.com> <20010726034451.A27835@sethf.com> Message-ID: <20010726091927.C27191@cluebot.com> Finkelstein apparently wants to argue at length about libertarianism, hypothetical votes, and and mythical senators in his endearingly nutty way. I do not, and I'll let him have the last word. Good day. -Declan On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 03:44:51AM -0400, Seth Finkelstein wrote: > On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 01:30:24AM -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > This could become an all-encompassing discussion that has little to > > do with the purpose of this list. But Finkelstein makes some > > allegations that are simply weird if not incomprehensible, and so > > I'll try to correct them and simultaneously bring it back to Dmitry. > > Too bad you couldn't be troubled to quote them, so I have > no idea what you mean. Not a promising start. Anyway ... > > > 1. Libertarian and conservative groups (not the same) are > > newly-influential because of a new guy in the White House. Many think > > tank types have gone to work for the Bush administration. There is a > > close relationship, particularly with conservatives. > > None of this mattered to the passage of the DMCA in the first place. > As you have complained, the DMCA was bipartisan. Despite what you may > believe (see below), the DMCA was not a liberal/Democratic cause. So > whatever the influence of think-tanks, even if Libertarians and > conservatives had lesser influence, it seems to have mattered not > at all. Zero. I've argued that the imperatives of campaign funding > likely would have placed any Libertarian Senators in that 99-0 group too. > This argument undercuts the irritating recruiting for the Libertarian Party. > > Now, I'm sure you will do a fine job of reaching out to those > libertarian think-tanks. However, given the genesis of this thread > in the promotion of the Libertarian Party, I think you have little > basis to complain about "nutty propagandistic statements" which are > "simply weird if not incomprehensible" (e.g. conjecturing the behavior > of fantasy Senators based on "interviews" with some party officials). > > A serious issue you raise though, is if think-tanks of any > political group have *any* chance of persuading Congress to amend the > DMCA. I suspect the problem is that you are analyzing this in terms of > ideology, and I am thinking about it mostly in terms of money and > perhaps how to counter that huge war-chest on the other side. > Arguments about "Why The DMCA Is Bad" are not exactly rare (even from > conservatives). I believe it is a serious analysis error to put too > much faith in a supposed killer philosophical argument. It makes for > good column-filler and editorializing, but is severely limited in > effectiveness (of course, after it fails, it can then be recycled all > over again in that same column-filler and editorializing, as to how the > world is going to hell in handbasket because the killer philosophical > argument didn't work). > > If your argument is that activists need to have as wide as > umbrella as possible, there's pros and cons. I don't think this > list is the right place to discuss that. > > By the way Declan, in terms of politics and coalition building, > there is a certain irony regarding the impetus of my developing > the aphorism "The DMCA Is Libertarianism In Action". It was pushed > by your out-and-out trolling the dvd-discuss list a few weeks back > regarding how the DMCA was the "inevitable result of the last 100 years" > where "This is what liberals wanted, and this is the inevitable consequence." > Perhaps you could set a better example for me? > > -- > Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com > http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From pmasloch at earthlink.net Thu Jul 26 06:25:09 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Next protest? In-Reply-To: <20010726090206.E21822@lupercalia.net> Message-ID: The other question is, do the people in Congress realy understand the DMCA? I believe many of them can not even send an e-mail.... :-))) Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 01:17:38AM -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: > Keep in mind that nearly all congresscritters are gone during > the summer recess, roughly ~5 Aug to ~5 Sep. I think our route to overturning the DMCA has to start with the people, not the Congress. They will never repeal it without pressure coming from Americans who support free speech and fair use, and oppose corporate control of our society. So, I don't think this is a big problem, really. Besides, USENIX is too big an opportunity to pass up on. -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From johnny_aio2 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 26 06:26:18 2001 From: johnny_aio2 at yahoo.com (Johnny Crow) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mitnick & Dmitry Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010726091059.00a61e00@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Never before have i seen such a movement, to combat unfairness. It is sad that only now are people opening their eyes and realizing the wrong doings of our government. Back when Mitnick got arrested their was an outcry of anger. but their were less people then who understood the severity of the case. But now we have numbers and more powerr. It goes to show that through our determination, And our teaching misguided people the truth, that we are growing in numbers, and that we wont take this harassment anymore. We are tired of being Mistreated just because we can do stuff you (corporations) can't. Keep the fight on! Never give up. We have rights and were going to use them. Thank you to everybody who is participating in the protests, and any other means available. I hope we can come together and fight this thing. FREE DMITRY! Always, Slacker _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From tom at thinkpix.com Thu Jul 26 06:30:23 2001 From: tom at thinkpix.com (tom moore) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology References: <20010726092359.C29688@3soft.de> <3B5FFC98.68413A8F@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <004a01c115d7$1fb14df0$3e203b40@PRODUCTION> Whatever terms we decide to use (I prefer something along the lines of "Use Restricted"), an important point to bring up is that the publishing industry will be able to (and probably is intending to) change the entire way the industry works. Right now, you can go down to your corner book store and buy a paperback novel for $7. Once you hand over your money, it's yours to do with asa you please. You can read it anywhere you like (on the train, at the beach, in bed), you can highlight your favorite parts ("Eskimo" - you get extra credit if you get that reference). You can give it to a friend, rip out the last ten pages and give it to an enemy, or let your dog eat it to give him more fiber in his diet (this has actually been one of my unintended uses of several of my books). The DMCA is set up so that your $7 will instead give you the right to read the book. It may give you the right to read it several times over a three month period, or the right to read it once, or unlimited reads on a single machine. You will not have the right to do anything else with the book, because it will not be yours. Forget about building bookshelves of old favorites. Forget about reading The Lord of the Rings or Dune every couple of years. Forget about discovering a brilliant new author and sharing the book with friends. The publishers may permit you to do it, or not, according to the stragegies they feel would bring in the most money. I think that *this* is something the American people will understand. This is taking something that everyone knows and loves (at least, the ones who read) and showing what exactly is going to happen to it. From chris.savage at crblaw.com Thu Jul 26 06:44:15 2001 From: chris.savage at crblaw.com (Chris Savage) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? Message-ID: IMHO an interesting way this might play out for the prosecution might be for them to state repeatedly and with great conviction what a wonderful law the DMCA is and that if someone actually did what they *THOUGHT* Dmitry had done, based on Adobe's initial statements, boy would that be grounds for prosecution. But upon further investigation they concluded that it was not at all clear that Dmitry had actually done all the relevant acts. So in the interests of justice they are releasing him and dropping the complaint. "Go forth and sin no more," in effect. For this to work, the EFF folk would need to persuade the prosecutors not that the DMCA is a bad law (prosecutors prosecute under "bad" laws all the time), nor that a foreigner can't violate it if there are adequate effects in the US. All they need to persuade the prosecutors is that Dmitry is not a good test case for the law, as a purely legal proposition and from the prosecutors' own point of view. The fact that the above is probably actually correct will not necessarily help, but it shouldn't hurt. Note that the above allows everyone to save face, which is important in matters of diplomacy, which, in effect, this is. It may be that it is reasonable to hope that a privacy/freedom/libertarian orientation among some members of/consultants to the new administration will lead to a general policy of non-aggressive enforcement of the worst provisions of the DMCA, except in cases of clear commercial exploitation. Working to that end is actually easier, ISTM, if the particular situation involving Dmitry can be put into the past. Getting the DMCA itself changed legislatively will be a long-term proposition, and should not be linked in any immediate sense to dealing with Dmitry's problem. Just my $0.02, Chris S. *************************************************************************** This electronic mail transmission may contain confidential or privileged information. If you believe that you have received the message in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. *************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010726/4b0f8716/attachment.htm From andrea at gravitt.org Thu Jul 26 06:42:26 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] US residents: Tell Congress! Message-ID: <003501c115d9$0c3f0df0$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> The page listed below is a short tutorial on how to influence the US political process by writing to Congress. Corporations and other groups with big money can go there in person and tell legislators why they should support their position. Without letters from constituents, this is often all they hear at all. Many people here have discussed why the DMCA is a bad law, and how it restricts free speech, fair use, and legitimate research. Use these arguments and tell Congress why they should agree with you. It is not very exciting, but access to Congress is what gets things done with legislation. All that stuff from your High School Civics class sure was dull, but it is how the system works in the US. If you want to influence it, you have to know what it is. There is only one way to get laws changed in the US, and that is to apply political pressure. It's boring, and it often seems to be not worth the effort to take the time to write to a bunch of TV talking heads. But it's the only tool we have, and it does work if properly applied. The big corporations are doing it, you should too. You could arrange a meeting with your Representative or Senator or their staff members, and this would be really great, but it is usually difficult. Write a letter! Print it out, stick it in an envelope and put a stamp on it. Be polite but firm about your interest in seeing the law changed. If you are writing to your own Representative or Senator, say so. If you can find out what their position is, say why you do or do not agree with it. You can also write to the committee members who would be working on legislation, even if they are not from your state or district. This page is from USACM, the US Public Policy group within ACM. Members of professional societies like ACM can write to their organizations and urge them to make a statement. (Maybe I will make this my new tag line. Write your associations, that's what you are paying memberships for!) Communicating with Congress http://www.acm.org/usacm/communicating_with_congress.htm From johnny_aio2 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 26 06:49:45 2001 From: johnny_aio2 at yahoo.com (Johnny Crow) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] real person responsible for dmitry arrest! Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010726094617.00a59ea0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> The man who is responsible for the arrest and continued detention of Dmitry Sklyarov is Mr. Mueller's successor, US Attorney David Shapiro. Not Robert Mueller. Mueller was in DC for a couple weeks. Write to Shapiro and tell him what you think United States Attorney's Office 450 Golden Gate Avenue 11th Floor San Francisco, CA 94102 Phone: (415) 436-7200 Fax: (415) 436-7234 TTY: (415) 436-7221 Thanks, Slacker _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From pmasloch at earthlink.net Thu Jul 26 07:03:42 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: RE: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'?I agree with you. Changing the DMCA will be a long process and should be our longterm goal. Changing the DMCA to get Dmitry free is not a real solution. We only can try to tell the DoJ that Dmitry (or what he has done) doesn't fit in the DMCA. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Chris Savage Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 9:44 AM To: 'Michael Scottaline'; Peter; Eric Tully; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? IMHO an interesting way this might play out for the prosecution might be for them to state repeatedly and with great conviction what a wonderful law the DMCA is and that if someone actually did what they *THOUGHT* Dmitry had done, based on Adobe's initial statements, boy would that be grounds for prosecution. But upon further investigation they concluded that it was not at all clear that Dmitry had actually done all the relevant acts. So in the interests of justice they are releasing him and dropping the complaint. "Go forth and sin no more," in effect. For this to work, the EFF folk would need to persuade the prosecutors not that the DMCA is a bad law (prosecutors prosecute under "bad" laws all the time), nor that a foreigner can't violate it if there are adequate effects in the US. All they need to persuade the prosecutors is that Dmitry is not a good test case for the law, as a purely legal proposition and from the prosecutors' own point of view. The fact that the above is probably actually correct will not necessarily help, but it shouldn't hurt. Note that the above allows everyone to save face, which is important in matters of diplomacy, which, in effect, this is. It may be that it is reasonable to hope that a privacy/freedom/libertarian orientation among some members of/consultants to the new administration will lead to a general policy of non-aggressive enforcement of the worst provisions of the DMCA, except in cases of clear commercial exploitation. Working to that end is actually easier, ISTM, if the particular situation involving Dmitry can be put into the past. Getting the DMCA itself changed legislatively will be a long-term proposition, and should not be linked in any immediate sense to dealing with Dmitry's problem. Just my $0.02, Chris S. *************************************************************************** This electronic mail transmission may contain confidential or privileged information. If you believe that you have received the message in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. *************************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010726/8e85461d/attachment.html From douglay at relicorp.com Thu Jul 26 07:09:12 2001 From: douglay at relicorp.com (douglay@relicorp.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Backlash Message-ID: <200107261409.f6QE9CZ31708@atlanta.pop3now.com> I noticed two new articles in the Planet-Ebook bibliography this AM< both with a decidedly anti-Sklyarov tone. The worst of the two, IMO, is from Business Week Online: http://biz.yahoo.com/bizwk/010725/u2uwdgj7_smmdbiz41ntqa.html The author, Alex Salkever, offers very little in the way of facts, excepting a citation of a 1997 case involving price-fixing by a Japanese conglomerate. He makes no mention of the fact that Skylarov is an employee, not an officer, of Elcomsoft. Some of his offhand and unsupported comments, like "Computer scientists have expressed the fear that Sklyarov's arrest will have a chilling affect on security research. That seems unlikely." are simply nauseating. Perhaps Mr. Salkever would like to tell us what he knows that Ed Felton and Alan Cox don't. What a glib jerk. The other article, by the Patricia Seybold Group, is unfortunately harder to attack, because it makes one good point. This article is available at the Planet Ebook site: http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=196 The point they make is that Elcomsoft was profiting off of the E-Book cracking software, which they believe undercuts the argument that Dmitry was engaging in academic research. They also point out that the charges against Dmitry do not directly pertain to his presentation at DefCon. Hmmmm...I think there is a small point to be taken there, but the Seybold article has nothing whatsoever to say about (1) the fact that Skylarov is an employee, not an officer, of Elcomsoft; (2) the FBIs arrogant willingness to arrest foreign nationals for deeds that are not crimes in the nationals' home countries; (3) the fact that the Elcomsoft software does have non-infringing uses; or (4) the fact that even though Dmitry was not charged for his presentation, the FBI and Adobe opportunistically used his presence at a technical conference as a way to make an example out of him for their dirty little law... Overall, I think the Seybold Group ought to be ashamed of themselves for triumphantly bleating at the end of their article that "Now that Dmitry Sklyarov is sitting in a jail cell in Las Vegas, perhaps others will start to take notice." Yeah, hopefully when enough people do take notice, the DMCA and the values it represents will be sent conclusively to the trash-bin of history. -Doug -- Pop3Now Personal, Manage 5 Email Accounts From 1 Secure Window Sign Up Today! Visit http://www.pop3now.com/personal From debug at centras.lt Thu Jul 26 07:11:57 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Limited and Unlimited Resources In-Reply-To: <3B5FFDC3.1019F7F3@yahoo.com> References: <1738151542.20010726112204@centras.lt> <3B5FFDC3.1019F7F3@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1549637555.20010726161157@centras.lt> There is one fundamental law (without inner contradiction) This is the RIGHT TO USE(consume) AND COMPETE(produce,work) law (/ means both and & or ) everyone is free to use/compete as he likes if that doen not restrict anybody else right to use/compete with the same/other product/person This law can be separated into two parts: 1) The right to use 2) The right to compete 1) means everyone is free to use as he/she likes if that doen not restrict anybody else right to use the same or other product 2) means everyone is free to compete as he/she likes if that doen not restrict anybody else right to compete with him/her or others If it is separated into two parts 1) and 2) then those parts are incomplete and has inner contradictions (this is because on the one hand products can be used as means to compete and on the other hand in competition new products are produced) If all people understood this and accepted the use & compete law and followed it then this we would really have no copyrights, usage control, competition control problems and probablly we would not have wars and very likely civilization would benefit more than we can imagine. Now I have got the following letter from JN: JN> I have also toyed with the idea that all IP (copyrights and patents) be abolished. JN> The sticking point, for me, is that developers should be able to control their JN> products, since they had the right to choose not to make them in the first place. JN> If it weren't for the original developer's effort, the product would not have happened JN> and the needs of people would not have been met. I agree that if you look at the JN> situation after the work is completed, it appears that a copyright-holder is JN> witholding a valuable good from people, unless they pay to use it. But that good did JN> not exist before the copyright-holder produced it. He could have chosen not to do the JN> work at all, and then nobody would have had the benefit, whether they were willing to JN> pay or not. Since he chose to do the work, he gets to decide how it is used. Don't JN> like it? You are free to write your own (computer program, book, etc.) that competes JN> with his. Three major mistakes in the flow of thoughts of JN 1) JN> developers should be able to control their JN> products, since they had the right to choose not to make them in the first place. Developers have the right to produce and use but they still have no right to point how other people use or reverse-produce. This is because other people do not damage your original product (so no violation of usage right) and they do not restrict you in your production process (so no violation in competition right). The fact you did something in the past have nothing to do with what we have now no matter how little time have past or do yo uwant to say you are the one to decide for how long your copyrights should be protected ? 2) JN> If it weren't for the original developer's effort, the product would not have happened JN> and the needs of people would not have been met. The fact you decided do not produce does not mean there will not be interested people who will produce it (maybe even for free) So the needs of people will be met in one or other way (at least needs of those who feel the need for the product) 3) JN> Since he chose to do the work, he gets to decide how it is used. JN> And i must disagree, because this way of thinking has inner contradiction And here is the essence of copyrights - protect investments. However it turned out to be the wrong way to protect. US pharmaceutic company invested a lot of effort and money to produce drugs against AIDS (to prolong life). No one forces them to give out secrets. But if they publish the information how to produce the drug (in other words they want to patent it) then public must say: Wait we cannot protect your patent because people in africa are dying and need these drags badly. And there are volunteers who can produce these drugs very cheap or even for free. Nobody gonna stop them. So public cannot garantee return of investments to copyright-holder. US pharmaceutic company does not get their use & compete right restricted or violated and dying people has the right to use patent and volunteers have the right to compete. if US pharmaceutic company claims to decide who and how can use patent then it would restrict the right to use and compete of those interested in it and that is definitly going to cause a conflict. What i say is that it is consumers and only they who have the right to decide what should be produced for them and what should not (it is their right to use). And if you decide to produce something (it is your right) without public guarantee that it will be useful and used and paid then it is up to you to take the risks. So either you get paid in advance or you take the risks yourself. I also agree that people should be encouraged to invest their money in usefull businesses and should be encouraged to share the risks but they should not be forced (let's say by copyrights) because this is against their right to use. By applying copyrights state forces people (violates their right to use& compete) to share the risks of manufacturers decisions. If people are reach enough they can admit it (by free will) countrywide but if people do not have enough money they refuse to share the risks. That's why copyrights are violated mostly by countries with difficult economic situation Once again if we do not accept and obey the RIGHT TO USE AND COMPETE law (with that "if that doen not restrict ..." ) we are potencially running into conflict. -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org Thu Jul 26 07:15:24 2001 From: free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org (Julian T. J. Midgley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Victor Piterbarg wrote: > I'll put up another $50. However, keep in mind that she still needs to get a > visa, which is often problematic. One thing she'd need to get is an > "affidavit of support" from somebody in the USA who can prove that he has > enough funds to support her and her children during her stay. To get a visa > she'd need to prove that she'll return back to Russia...I don't see how > she'd want to stay in a country that did this to her husband, but not sure In obtaining Visas for Russian Nationals to visit the UK, I've found that it's effective sending a letter with words to the effect of "I will be financially responsible for XXX during his/her stay in this country, and will ensure that he/she leaves before his/her visa expires" to the person concerned who takes it along to the Embassy when they try to get their visa. This seems to be all that's necessary by way of proof that someone will return. Of course, in the USA things may be slightly different. Julian -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F From tom at thinkpix.com Thu Jul 26 07:26:43 2001 From: tom at thinkpix.com (tom moore) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another Ally? Message-ID: <009501c115de$fed046b0$3e203b40@PRODUCTION> http://www.genomeweb.com/articles/view-article.asp?Article=200172219199 Don't recall if I mentioned this here or in a private thread, but... Scientists have been complaining about restrictive access policies to journals. Recently, journals have begun using internet based publication in addition to traditional print-based copies. The problem is that they have begun to change their subscription policies, even to university libraries and such. Journal publications, for those who aren't aware, are expensive (on the order of >$100 per year) publications for researchers (ACM and IEEE have many, Science and Nature are general interest science, and there are hosts of others. People publishing in the journals usually pay a fee (rather than the journals paying the authors) to further offset costs for the publishers. The Public Library of Science (http://www.publiclibraryofscience.org/) is pushing for free and open access to this material. From esper at sherohman.org Thu Jul 26 07:31:33 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] broaden the movement In-Reply-To: <20010726135912.F31719@lemuria.org>; from tom@lemuria.org on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 01:59:15PM +0200 References: <996100901.27794.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20010726135912.F31719@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <20010726093133.B18082@sherohman.org> On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 01:59:15PM +0200, Tom wrote: > On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 07:13:25PM -0400, Xcott Craver wrote: > > "Copy control" is an incomplete and inaccurate term, because > > copying is just one aspect controlled by DRM systems. > > A much better and effective term would be "usage control." > both are somewhat awkward and not entirely correct. > > may I suggest a simple "restricted" ? > (or possibly a synonym with an even more negative feel) I've always liked "copy restricted" over "copy protected", but Xcott makes a good point. Time to switch over to "usage restricted" (or "restricted use"?) instead. -- With the arrest of Dimitry Sklyarov it has become apparent that it is not safe for non US software engineers to visit the United States. - Alan Cox "To prevent unauthorized reading..." - Adobe eBook reader license From pmasloch at earthlink.net Thu Jul 26 07:37:17 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] meeting Message-ID: On August 16th, I probably have the chance of meeting with Casper Taylor (speaker of the house). If Dmitry is still in jail at this time I can try at least giving him some written information about this issue. I don't know if that may help or not but I would like to give it a try. I'm not familiar with every detail in the US politic (I'm an immigrant living here 4 years) so I don't know if Mr. Taylor can influence anything. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org From krw5 at qwest.net Thu Jul 26 07:45:31 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why do you persist in covering Chinese detainments... Message-ID: <0107260745310K.14496@stumpy> ...of U.S.-resident Chinese, always regarded as implicitly unjust, without so much as passing mention of the quite similar U.S. detainment of the Russian academic Dmitry Sklyarov. The FIRST responsibility of a free press in a democratic country is to report injustices committed by one's OWN government. Only then should you begin throwing stones across the ocean. If indeed no one in NPR is aware of this story (I say incredulously), please begin at: http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.anti-dmca.org Sincerely, Roger Kramer Seattle, WA From jhclouse at juno.com Thu Jul 26 07:34:49 2001 From: jhclouse at juno.com (Jason H Clouse) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fox letter about the DMCA to ISPs Message-ID: <20010726.105539.-469099.0.jhclouse@juno.com> <<> It's called being "Tough On Crime". and I thought it's called "police state". silly me.>> Yes, well, they're pretty much the same thing. There's just this overwhelming willingness to give up our freedoms in exchange for protection in this country. It's sickening to watch millions cry out to their government for help as if the government were their mommy. People don't want to face the fact that bad things happen sometimes. They want to be sheltered from unpleasantness without dealing with it personally. Thus, gun control laws: "No! We don't want to defend ourselves from criminals! You do it instead. Oh, I'm so scared!" J ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From drumz at best.com Thu Jul 26 07:53:43 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Libertarian anti-DMCA is fantasy In-Reply-To: <20010726091927.C27191@cluebot.com> from Declan McCullagh at "Jul 26, 1 09:19:27 am" Message-ID: <200107261453.HAA17287@shell3.ba.best.com> > Finkelstein apparently wants to argue at length about libertarianism, > hypothetical votes, and and mythical senators in his endearingly nutty > way. I do not, and I'll let him have the last word. Good day. > > -Declan I don't see the point in this argument either -- especially on such a high-volume list -- and (as usual) have been endorsing [Ll]ibertarianism primarily as a defensive measure, because this isn't the place to go on the warpath. Just a few last thoughts, and then let's please drop it. Seth: why argue about what the LP would do if it were In Charge? I'm not exactly a fan of repealing the income tax, but I can vote happily with the LP regardless, because it just *ain't gonna happen*. I don't believe the true strength of the LP lies in its ability to get its candidates elected to high office. (If it did, we'd be in a lot of trouble.) I don't think any such scenario is practical without an overhaul of our voting process; without approval voting or an instant runoff, ours will always be a two-party system over the long term, and there simply isn't enough anti-authoritarian sentiment in our state-dependent society to let either major party truly embrace freedom. I *do* think that libertarians can provide invaluable swing votes -- particularly in an era during which it takes a near-deadlocked SCOTUS to decide a deadlocked election -- and that we are therefore in a position to have a significant effect on the national agenda. I also think that most [Ll]ibertarian hearts are very much in the right place with respect to the DMCA, and the CSA, and all the other infamous acronyms which our Congress has seen fit to inflict upon us over the years. Reject us if you like, as some have rejected the EFF; like them, we won't allow harsh words prevent us from being on your side. It would be suicidal for all of us, in an era in which we are outnumbered and outgunned, to allow idle "what if" speculation to stand in the way of our common goals. Ethan -- "What we actually need is not a nation of martyrs OR a nation of revolutionaries. What we need is a bunch of martyrs FOR the revolutionaries to point at and fight for. Example: Martin Luther King -- martyr. Malcolm X -- revolutionary. The first wave always has to be peaceful and get the shit kicked out of them. Then the angry second wave has something to be genuinely angry about, which gets the social change made." -- Rev. Nimrod P. Denglehorn, posting on slashdot.org From tabindak at best.com Thu Jul 26 08:00:34 2001 From: tabindak at best.com (Tabinda N. Khan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Flyers for leafletting Message-ID: <20010726080034.A7483@shell9.ba.best.com> The flyers I redid last night have been posted to http://www.tabinda.com/freedmitry/. Forgive the PDF version, but I had a world of trouble with Postscript last night and I can't come to the leafletting if you have trouble printing so I wanted to provide as many options as I could. The Postscript version _is_ posted, but if it gives you trouble or the page doesn't look good when printed, skip it and move on to another format. There are also Word and HTML versions. Besides, we're not going after Adobe anymore, yes? ;-) I believe we have the right tone--not too technical, no analogies for people to argue to death, made sure to mention the DMCA without going into the gory legal details, etc. I don't know how many you want to run off for the leafletting. On Monday in San Jose we gave out about 800 copies, but that was with very little foot traffic and people were not all focused on handing them out. OTOH, we were out there a lot longer and paper gets heavy to tote around. Maybe start with 1000 copies for SF and make note of where the nearest copy shop is to leafletting locations. Sorry I can't join today. If you have feedback let me know. The flyer for next Monday will be updated to include info about what will have happened at the EFF meeting Friday. Tabinda -- From hanke at volny.cz Thu Jul 26 08:09:35 2001 From: hanke at volny.cz (Hynek "0A4h" Hanke) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:37 2005 Subject: Is that Free Software issue? (Re: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'?) Message-ID: <00c901c115e5$19260260$b8e45ad4@b1x6v0> > Columbian drug lords sell cocaine to middle men who bring it to the US and > because of extradition laws, we drag the kingpins here and try them in > American courts (when we can catch them!). The fact that they were in > Columbia when they broke American law was irrelevent. They did something > that affected Americans. ... >If the FBI had no right to arrest him, then this wouldn't be a programming >issue. It wouldn't be a free speech issue. It wouldn't even be a DMCA >issue. If the FBI had no right to arrest him, then any decent lawyer would >simply stand in front of the judge and say, "I have tons of precedent >showing that Russians aren't subject to American laws, you have to let him >go." And the judge would. However, there are precedents on both sides. Well, what about patents? Does that mean all US patents are valuable in e.g. Europe? Does that mean I can't make a software (I live in Europe) that breaks some US patent (ok, that nearly means I can't do *any* software at all)? As you know, in Europe it is *not* possible to patent idea's, mathematical algorithms, methods in computer programs. So I'm free (in Europe) to make any program I wan't without paying big companies for their patents. Now, if I make this program comercial, that means I require money from users, it's OK, because I can simply prevent US citizens from paying for it so that it's not avaible in USA and I can't break US patents. But if my program is Free Software (e.g. GPL'd software) and I make it avaible on Internet, what does it mean? Every US citizen is free to download and I simply can't make it unavaible for him. I know about one german man who was forced to take out his Free Software program from internet due to US patent. More information: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/daa-07.06.01-002/ http://www.fh-furtwangen.de/~dersch http://www.cityscope.de/pp3n/index.html http://listserv.fh-furtwangen.de/cgi-bin/lwgate/cgi/lwgate-en-proj.cgi/PROJ- IMIM/archives/proj-imim.archive.0106/date/article-21.html And there are other cases (like an Australian man, who was arrested in Germany for nazi propaganda uploaded to his australian website in Australia -- and I don't think it is clear that this was nazi propaganda) I don't know about other cases, but surely they exist... These two are only a little I was told about in patents@aful.org conference. Now that's obvious that Dmitry's case is a big issue about how to judge things in Internet as well as a free-speech issue and DMCA issue. I mean that it's absurd to arrest him even if he broke DMCA, because he broke it in Russia, and then it's absurd to arrest him because he is programmer, not seller of AEBPR, and last, DMCA is absurd. There is a trend to judge people's act on internet by the country of download, not upload. It seems nonsencial to me! Dmitry's case is definitly one of these issues, but it's not only this one. There is much more controversy than only that he comited it in Russia and now he is judged by US law. One of the points of the complaint was that Adobe managed to buy AEBPR from USA. But what if AEBPR was free software? Than the programmer has no chance of defending against various laws of all these countries in this world. This is one of the parts of this problem. Hynek Hanke From kastlyn at unixtribe.net Thu Jul 26 08:25:29 2001 From: kastlyn at unixtribe.net (Kastlyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mail to Congress people In-Reply-To: <20010726143019.J31719@lemuria.org> Message-ID: I prefer plain text for this. =} -=Amie=- On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Tom wrote: > On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 10:19:09PM -0500, Kastlyn wrote: > > I'm willing to act as a mail-drop for anyone who would like to send a > > letter to Sen. Hatch. I could probably even, if several people write > > letters, just hand-deliver them to his Utah office, if people want their > > letters to get there REAL fast. =} > > what formats? postscript? LaTeX? > From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Thu Jul 26 08:33:19 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] letter to David Shapiro Message-ID: <3B60383F.93005A95@sheffield.ac.uk> I just sent this letter to David Shapiro I understand that it is crooked and ugly but I think it is better then nothing. After all 1. I'm russian and 2. it is my personal opinion. Please feel free to change it according to your feelings and send him. anton -------------------------------- 26 July 2001 David Shapiro United States Attorney U.S. Department of Justice Northern District of California 11th Floor, Federal Building 450 Golden Gate Avenue, Box 36055 San Francisco, California 94102 Anton Chterenlikht my address Phone: +44 07966140794 Email: a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk Dear Mr Shapiro, Re: United States v. Dmitry Sklyarov I was very happy to find out that Adobe Systems Inc. is ?withdrawing its support for the criminal complaint against Dmitry Sklyarov?. Colleen Pouliot, Senior Vice President and General Counsel for Adobe. She also said ? (?) the prosecution of this individual in this particular case is not conducive to the best interests of any of the parties involved or the industry?. I do understand that this is a criminal case ?United States vs Dmitry Sklyarov? and the position of the Adobe executive does not really change anything. But after detailed and thorough studying of the initial affidavit, after reading articles in serious US newspapers like New York Times or New Economist and electronic news agencies like www.cnn.com or www.bbc.co.uk I?ve got a strong feeling that Dmitry might be just the wrong person who was caught between the two software companies like between the hammer and the anvils due to some Adobe-Elcomsoft tensions. Maybe I?m wrong but I hope that you, sir, will come to the same conclusion after detailed studying the case. I really hope that the US Department of Justice will revise its initial charge and free Dmitry from custody as soon as possible. I have known Dmitry for more then ten years now (since 1991), both as a bright student at Moscow State Technical University (BMSTU) and then as a top-level researcher in electronic security. He is a supportive, law abiding, husband and a father of two young children who has never taken part in any illegal activities. Attached is a letter for Dmitry. If it is possible could you please pass this letter to him. Thanks a lot, Yours Sincerely, ______________________________________ Anton Chterenlikht From roylo at sr2c.com Thu Jul 26 08:35:21 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. morning in San Jose References: <20010726044754.C21489@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <002301c115e8$94bd1460$0200a8c0@jwin> The ideal behind it was to be convenient for everybody. You see Sunday we have people go to Churches and Weekdays most people are working. So, that is why I pick Sat. instead. Also, this might work out better. 'Cause you guys can announce the protest within those event. And people can take breaks and come join the protest for an hour or two. If you guys still think it is a bad ideal; We can always call it off. If we want to call it off please let me know before Friday night, so I can tell others as well. thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Moen" To: Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 4:47 AM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. morning in San Jose > Herewith, a brief note about intelligent event planning. (I'm for it.) > > roylo wrote: > > > I'm planning to hold a protest at U.S. Attorney for the Northern District > > of California office in San Jose at 10:00am this Sat. > > I assume more rather than fewer people from the technical / Linux / BSD / > coder communities would be seen as A Very Good Thing. Now, those > communities have popular (and usually regular) events, planned way in > advance, on (e.g.) certain Saturdays. And, pursuant to that, we have > calendars -- which roylo and others might want to consult to prevent > avoidable conflicts. > > I happen to maintain one of the most-used such calendars for the San > Francisco Bay Area, "BALE": http://linuxmafia.com/bale/ > > Had they roylo checked it before announcing the Saturday protest, > he'd have noticed the CABAL/BALUG/BAFUG/SVBUG Linux InstallFest and > BSD Install-a-thon, Saturday 10-4, at the Cow Palace (which I'm helping > to run). I think substantially all of us who are already committed to > be at the Cow Palace _would_ have attended a San Jose "free Dmitri" > protest at pretty much _any_ non-conflicting time. I certainly would have. > > Ruth Shanen maintains a similar calendar for the New York City area: > http://pw1.netcom.com/~casandra/linux/calendar.html > > -- > Cheers, "Orthodoxy is my doxy. Heterodoxy is someone else's doxy." > Rick Moen -- William Warburton, Bishop of Gloucester (1698-1779) > rick@linuxmafia.com > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From mkbilbo at cdcla.com Thu Jul 26 08:45:18 2001 From: mkbilbo at cdcla.com (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:37 2005 Subject: Is that Free Software issue? (Re: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'?) References: <00c901c115e5$19260260$b8e45ad4@b1x6v0> Message-ID: <003701c115e9$f9098b00$3088d790@tti.com> The guy who wrote this article also ignores the very likely case that the FBI is just *wrong.* If he really thinks that FBI arrests can't happen without good cause, I have only one word for him: LEE. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hynek "0A4h" Hanke" To: Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 8:09 AM Subject: Is that Free Software issue? (Re: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'?) > > > > Columbian drug lords sell cocaine to middle men who bring it to the US > and > > because of extradition laws, we drag the kingpins here and try them in > > American courts (when we can catch them!). The fact that they were in > > Columbia when they broke American law was irrelevent. They did something > > that affected Americans. > ... > >If the FBI had no right to arrest him, then this wouldn't be a programming > >issue. It wouldn't be a free speech issue. It wouldn't even be a DMCA > >issue. If the FBI had no right to arrest him, then any decent lawyer would > >simply stand in front of the judge and say, "I have tons of precedent > >showing that Russians aren't subject to American laws, you have to let him > >go." And the judge would. > > However, there are precedents on both sides. > > Well, what about patents? Does that mean all US patents are > valuable in e.g. Europe? Does that mean I can't make a software > (I live in Europe) that breaks some US patent (ok, that nearly means > I can't do *any* software at all)? As you know, in Europe it is > *not* possible to patent idea's, mathematical algorithms, > methods in computer programs. So I'm free (in Europe) > to make any program I wan't without paying big companies > for their patents. > > Now, if I make this program comercial, that means I require > money from users, it's OK, because I can simply prevent > US citizens from paying for it so that it's not avaible in USA > and I can't break US patents. > > But if my program is Free Software (e.g. GPL'd software) > and I make it avaible on Internet, what does it mean? > Every US citizen is free to download and I simply can't > make it unavaible for him. > > I know about one german man who was forced to take > out his Free Software program from internet > due to US patent. > > More information: > http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/daa-07.06.01-002/ > http://www.fh-furtwangen.de/~dersch > http://www.cityscope.de/pp3n/index.html > http://listserv.fh-furtwangen.de/cgi-bin/lwgate/cgi/lwgate-en-proj.cgi/PROJ- > IMIM/archives/proj-imim.archive.0106/date/article-21.html > > And there are other cases (like an Australian man, > who was arrested in Germany for nazi propaganda > uploaded to his australian website in Australia > -- and I don't think it is clear that this was nazi > propaganda) > > I don't know about other cases, but surely they exist... > These two are only a little I was told about in patents@aful.org > conference. > > Now that's obvious that Dmitry's case is a big > issue about how to judge things in Internet as > well as a free-speech issue and DMCA issue. > > I mean that it's absurd to arrest him even if he > broke DMCA, because he broke it in Russia, > and then it's absurd to arrest him > because he is programmer, not seller of AEBPR, > and last, DMCA is absurd. > > There is a trend to judge people's act on internet by > the country of download, not upload. It seems nonsencial > to me! > > Dmitry's case is definitly one of these issues, > but it's not only this one. There is much more controversy > than only that he comited it in Russia and now he is judged > by US law. > > One of the points of the complaint was that Adobe > managed to buy AEBPR from USA. But what > if AEBPR was free software? Than the programmer > has no chance of defending against various > laws of all these countries in this world. > > This is one of the parts of this problem. > > Hynek Hanke > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From ben at kalifornia.com Thu Jul 26 08:44:20 2001 From: ben at kalifornia.com (Ben Ford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Backlash References: <200107261409.f6QE9CZ31708@atlanta.pop3now.com> Message-ID: <3B603AD4.8000201@kalifornia.com> douglay@relicorp.com wrote: >The other article, by the Patricia Seybold Group, is unfortunately >harder to attack, because it makes one good point. This article is >available at the Planet Ebook site: > >http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=196 > >The point they make is that Elcomsoft was profiting off of the E-Book >cracking software, which they believe undercuts the argument that >Dmitry was engaging in academic research. They also point out that >the charges against Dmitry do not directly pertain to his >presentation at DefCon. > I don't know if this is true or not, but Dimitry himself said that they charged $100 for the program to DISCOURAGE people from buying it. After all, $100 is a lot more than an $8.95 eBook! According to him, their intent was for producers of these products to purchase the software to test their encryption with and for people who genuinely needed it, as in a blind person who could not read eBooks, not for the average Napster using pirate. -b -- Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are going to burn in Hell forever. From jstyre at jstyre.com Thu Jul 26 09:00:29 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Next protest? In-Reply-To: <20010726090206.E21822@lupercalia.net> References: <20010726011800.C2642@cluebot.com> <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F99@ryentes1.mobius.com> <0107252026510B.19049@bilbo.blorch.org> <01072523393400.23950@lorien> <20010726011800.C2642@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010726083938.00b201b8@earthlink.net> Trying to coincide with the first day of the technical sessions of USENIX Security (Aug. 15) may create more problems than it solves. At 9:00 am, list member Richard Smith is giving the Keynote address. At 2:00 pm, known DMCA opponent Matt Blaze is giving an invited talk, "Loaning Your Soul to the Devil: Influencing Policy Without Selling Out" which many may want to hear. At 6:00 pm. list member Xcott Craver is presenting "Reading Between the Lines: Lessons from the SDMI Challenge", followed immediately by a panel discussion on SDMI and DMCA with Ed Felten, (co-author and Rice Professor) Dan Wallach, EFF Legal Director Cindy Cohn and Law Prof. Peter Jaszi. (There are other interesting presentations that day, but these are the most relevant for this purpose.) There's no doubt that many going to USENIX Security would be receptive to anti-DMCA rallies, but they may prefer to attend the USENEX sessions they paid good money to attend. Just a few facts to consider, how to weigh them I'll leave to others. At 09:02 AM 7/26/2001 -0400, David Merrill wrote: >On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 01:17:38AM -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > Keep in mind that nearly all congresscritters are gone during > > the summer recess, roughly ~5 Aug to ~5 Sep. > >I think our route to overturning the DMCA has to start with the >people, not the Congress. They will never repeal it without pressure >coming from Americans who support free speech and fair use, and oppose >corporate control of our society. > >So, I don't think this is a big problem, really. Besides, USENIX is >too big an opportunity to pass up on. > >-- >Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net >Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net >Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org > > Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com > Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From mickeym at mindspring.com Thu Jul 26 09:00:33 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (mickey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Thought: Oksana US Visit References: Message-ID: <3B603EA1.EA01E238@mindspring.com> If I were her, I would want some assurances (a declaratory judgement?) that she would not also be detained. What defense would we have for a "she's a co-author" charge? mickeym "Julian T. J. Midgley" wrote: > On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Victor Piterbarg wrote: > > > I'll put up another $50. However, keep in mind that she still needs to get a > > visa, which is often problematic. One thing she'd need to get is an > > "affidavit of support" from somebody in the USA who can prove that he has > > enough funds to support her and her children during her stay. To get a visa > > she'd need to prove that she'll return back to Russia...I don't see how > > she'd want to stay in a country that did this to her husband, but not sure > > In obtaining Visas for Russian Nationals to visit the UK, I've found that > it's effective sending a letter with words to the effect of "I will be > financially responsible for XXX during his/her stay in this country, and > will ensure that he/she leaves before his/her visa expires" to the person > concerned who takes it along to the Embassy when they try to get their > visa. This seems to be all that's necessary by way of proof that someone > will return. Of course, in the USA things may be slightly different. > > Julian > > -- > Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org > Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From adunston at jetstream.com Thu Jul 26 09:01:47 2001 From: adunston at jetstream.com (Adrian Dunston) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Backlash Message-ID: >... and for people who genuinely needed it, as in a >blind person who could not read eBooks, not for the average >Napster using pirate. >-b I know I'm splitting hairs here but -- like Richard Stallman -- I have to disagree with our using the term piracy to describe copyright infringement. A pirate is a person who boards ships uninvited, murders, rapes, and steals physical property. I have never heard of a Napster user doing any of these things. Drafters of copyright law coined the term piracy in order to help justify the need for laws like the DMCA. I know we're not going to be able to get the newsmedia to stop using that term, but we at least can avoid it in our own discussions, especially at protests. The terms crippled media, controlled content, and controlled usage are great for our cause. The term piracy -- even though we are not copyright violators ourselves -- is harmful. Of course, "violator" and "infringer" aren't great words either. Any suggestions? -Adrian P. Dunston __ (sourceCode == freeSpeech) //Support the EFF. http://www.x-omega.com/shirtdept From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Thu Jul 26 08:59:46 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Disks Message-ID: *If* he was giving away disks, then that makes it a little harder to describe as "commercial advantage or private financial gain," which is required for criminal prosecution. That, and it wasn't mentioned in the complaint. Free Dmitry. Repeal the DMCA. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Thu Jul 26 09:21:34 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Was That It? In-Reply-To: <20010726013654.C17614@zork.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Nick Moffitt wrote: > Begin Alex Fabrikant quotation: > > Sklyarov Protest And Negotiation Kommittee perhaps? > The problem is that "SPANK" would hit everyone's content filters. Easily fixed -- SPANC =) (and lookie here, spanc.org is actually still available...) -- -alexf From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Thu Jul 26 09:24:35 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] TWO IMPORTANT QUESTIONS!! Message-ID: <3B604442.14E1EE24@sheffield.ac.uk> It looks like no one knows the answers to these questions. I would recommend therefore to be very cautious with the "support Dmitry" paypal account. 1. Does anyone know who has opened a paypal account for Dmitry? How can I be sure that it is Dmitry who'll get the money? Who is dmitry@shmoo.com? https://www.paypal.com/xclick/business=dmitry%40shmoo.com&item_name=Dmitry+Sklyarov&no_shipping=1 2. Is there anyone in the list who knows a local executive in SF of San Jose? Can this executive employ Dmitry? This would really help to release him on bail. anton From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Thu Jul 26 09:11:43 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Backlash Message-ID: > The terms crippled media, controlled content, and controlled usage are > great for our cause. The term piracy -- even though we are not > copyright violators ourselves -- is harmful. > Of course, "violator" and "infringer" aren't great words either. Any > suggestions? Fair use advocate? Fair user? Constitutional defender? Free Dmitry. Repeal the DMCA. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Jul 26 09:32:30 2001 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. morning in San Jose In-Reply-To: <002301c115e8$94bd1460$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: <20010726093230.D21489@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> begin roylo quotation: > The ideal behind it was to be convenient for everybody. Great. Please consult BALE, in the future. That URL again: http://linuxmafia.com/bale/ > Also, this might work out better. 'Cause you guys can announce the > protest within those event. And people can take breaks and come join > the protest for an hour or two. Nope. That doesn't work. Running the InstallFest is a rather intensive activity: We're there from before 10 AM to well after 4 PM. Driving to San Jose in the middle is not an option. > If you guys still think it is a bad ideal; We can always call it off. Your call. I assume you verified that a substantial number of people will be able to be there with you, before making the announcement. (Also, I hope you're aware that downtown San Jose is extremely dead on a typical Saturday morning.) However, while we're at it, herewith, a few modest suggestions about intelligent event logistics and publicity. (I'm for those, too.) 1. Have all details all in one place, on an event Web site. Lobbing off an announcement to a mailing list is nice, but you need clear, easily findable details on a Web site. Well in advance: Others will link to it, and use it for material. Make sure the page has spokemen's contact e-mail addresses and telephone numbers: Reporters will use those. Example: Windows Refund Day -- http://linuxmafia.com/refund/ 2. Make sure you include street address and cross-street. (And day/date/time, obviously.) 3. Include a street map, generated from Mapblast, Yahoo Maps, Mapquest, etc. 4. Provide public transit information. (In the S.F. Bay Area, you can get this from http://www.transitinfo.org/ .) 5. Provide infomation on the parking situation. 6. If possible, have people rendezvous at somewhere convenient nearby, and walk to the site en-masse. It's more dramatic, and lets you take care of organisational problems before reaching the target site. 6. Have at least one person carry a cellular 'phone. Let other organisers have the number. 7. Have flyers. Have banners and signs. > If we want to call it off please let me know before Friday night, so I can > tell others as well. 8. Make the best decisions you can, then do what you can with the results. Don't waffle. I _suspect_ that you've hardly planned this at all, and need to do some quick re-thinking. But you make up your own mind. I don't know you: You may have this going just fine. -- Cheers, "I used to be on the border of insanity. However, due Rick Moen to pressing political concerns, I recently had to invade." rick@linuxmafia.com -- Kurt Montandon, in r.a.sf.w.r-j From neale at woozle.org Thu Jul 26 09:32:47 2001 From: neale at woozle.org (Neale Pickett) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] *Heavy sigh of exhaustion* In-Reply-To: <3B5FCB5E.E5DBDFC9@sethf.com> References: <3B5FB31F.350E@indierecords.com> <3B5FCB5E.E5DBDFC9@sethf.com> Message-ID: Seth Finkelstein writes: > Keith Handy wrote: >> >> How outrageously difficult would it be to transfer this discussion to a >> slashdot-like website, with a similar rating-by-points system, and >> threaded messages? > Probably not hard. Just need a volunteer to set it up. > (isn't that always the case?) virgule to the rescue! Beaujolais! http://sklyarov.woozle.org/ > I do wonder what the point-system would produce :-) >> I've heard several other people say >> that just reading all this is a full-time job, and I agree. > "Me too". I've reached the point where I'm likely to head > out. Apologies for adding to the problem with this one :-(. > -- > Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com > http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From pmasloch at earthlink.net Thu Jul 26 09:57:34 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] TWO IMPORTANT QUESTIONS!! In-Reply-To: <3B604442.14E1EE24@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: This is shmoo.com (from Networksolutions): Registrant: ShmooWare (SHMOO-DOM) PMB 820 21010 Southbank St Sterling, VA 20165 US Domain Name: SHMOO.COM Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Billing Contact: Potter, Bruce G (BGP4) gdead@SHMOO.COM The Shmoo Group PMB 820 21010 Southbank St Sterling, VA 20165 222-555-5555 (FAX) 907-562-3687 Record last updated on 16-Jan-2001. Record expires on 17-Oct-2002. Record created on 16-Oct-1996. Database last updated on 26-Jul-2001 01:22:00 EDT. Domain servers in listed order: ARCHIMEDES.SHMOO.COM 209.112.193.97 KRUSTY.SHMOO.COM 198.93.70.11 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org It looks like no one knows the answers to these questions. I would recommend therefore to be very cautious with the "support Dmitry" paypal account. 1. Does anyone know who has opened a paypal account for Dmitry? How can I be sure that it is Dmitry who'll get the money? Who is dmitry@shmoo.com? https://www.paypal.com/xclick/business=dmitry%40shmoo.com&item_name=Dmit ry+Sklyarov&no_shipping=1 2. Is there anyone in the list who knows a local executive in SF of San Jose? Can this executive employ Dmitry? This would really help to release him on bail. anton _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From dredd at megacity.org Thu Jul 26 09:56:25 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] TWO IMPORTANT QUESTIONS!! In-Reply-To: <3B604442.14E1EE24@sheffield.ac.uk> References: <3B604442.14E1EE24@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: At 5:24 PM +0100 7/26/01, Anton Chterenlikht wrote: >2. >Is there anyone in the list who knows a local >executive in SF of San Jose? >Can this executive employ Dmitry? >This would really help to release him on bail. US Employment laws would forbid it. To get an "employable visa", he'd have to leave the country first, get the prospective employer to apply for the visa, then return, etc. D -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Thu Jul 26 10:01:30 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] TWO IMPORTANT QUESTIONS!! References: <3B604442.14E1EE24@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3B604CEA.16E20E40@sheffield.ac.uk> Well, they do need to employ him really. They will need to say in front of Mueller or Shapiro or whoever that they like him, he is a good guy and they would like to employ him. I do think this might help, at least, to release Dmitry on bail. anton Derek Balling wrote: > At 5:24 PM +0100 7/26/01, Anton Chterenlikht wrote: > >2. > >Is there anyone in the list who knows a local > >executive in SF of San Jose? > >Can this executive employ Dmitry? > >This would really help to release him on bail. > > US Employment laws would forbid it. To get an "employable visa", he'd > have to leave the country first, get the prospective employer to > apply for the visa, then return, etc. > > D > > -- > +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ > | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | > | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | > | | driven before you, and to hear the | > | | lamentation of their women!" | > +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 26 10:04:48 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] TWO IMPORTANT QUESTIONS!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87g0bjfwpb.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "P" == Peter writes: P> This is shmoo.com (from Networksolutions): Hey! Shmoo group folks are vitally important to making the Free Dmitry movement happen. They're good folks. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Thu Jul 26 10:05:51 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] TWO IMPORTANT QUESTIONS!! References: Message-ID: <3B604DEF.AD124D90@sheffield.ac.uk> This does not tell me much. Will Dmitry receive the money or not? And how? And who is dmitry@shmoo.com ? Maybe we should ask gdead@SHMOO.COM ? anton Peter wrote: > This is shmoo.com (from Networksolutions): > > Registrant: > ShmooWare (SHMOO-DOM) > PMB 820 21010 Southbank St > Sterling, VA 20165 > US > > Domain Name: SHMOO.COM > > Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Billing Contact: > Potter, Bruce G (BGP4) gdead@SHMOO.COM > The Shmoo Group > PMB 820 21010 Southbank St > Sterling, VA 20165 > 222-555-5555 (FAX) 907-562-3687 > > Record last updated on 16-Jan-2001. > Record expires on 17-Oct-2002. > Record created on 16-Oct-1996. > Database last updated on 26-Jul-2001 01:22:00 EDT. > > Domain servers in listed order: > > ARCHIMEDES.SHMOO.COM 209.112.193.97 > KRUSTY.SHMOO.COM 198.93.70.11 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > > Peter > > Free Dmitry Sklyarov > Stop the DMCA > ---------------------------------------- > http://www.freesklyarov.org > http://www.boycottadobe.org > > It looks like no one knows the answers to these > questions. I would recommend therefore to be very > cautious with the "support Dmitry" paypal account. > > 1. > Does anyone know who has opened a paypal account > for Dmitry? > How can I be sure that it is Dmitry who'll get the > money? > Who is dmitry@shmoo.com? > > https://www.paypal.com/xclick/business=dmitry%40shmoo.com&item_name=Dmit > ry+Sklyarov&no_shipping=1 > > 2. > Is there anyone in the list who knows a local > executive in SF of San Jose? > Can this executive employ Dmitry? > This would really help to release him on bail. > > anton > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From dredd at megacity.org Thu Jul 26 10:06:30 2001 From: dredd at megacity.org (Derek Balling) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] TWO IMPORTANT QUESTIONS!! In-Reply-To: <3B604CEA.16E20E40@sheffield.ac.uk> References: <3B604442.14E1EE24@sheffield.ac.uk> <3B604CEA.16E20E40@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: He can't even seek or apply for a job while in the states. Just as, when I go to the UK, I can't look for a job while on my Tourist Visa. Such a move by a "potential employer" might simply make his life even MORE difficult. D (btw, don't crosspost to multiple lists at once, ... the people who reply may not be on both... the UK list was removed on this reply) At 6:01 PM +0100 7/26/01, Anton Chterenlikht wrote: >Well, they do need to employ him really. They will need to say in front >of Mueller >or Shapiro or whoever that they like him, he is a good guy and they would >like to >employ him. I do think this might help, at least, to release Dmitry on >bail. > >anton > >Derek Balling wrote: > >> At 5:24 PM +0100 7/26/01, Anton Chterenlikht wrote: >> >2. >> >Is there anyone in the list who knows a local >> >executive in SF of San Jose? >> >Can this executive employ Dmitry? >> >This would really help to release him on bail. >> >> US Employment laws would forbid it. To get an "employable visa", he'd >> have to leave the country first, get the prospective employer to > > apply for the visa, then return, etc. -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From pmasloch at earthlink.net Thu Jul 26 10:08:54 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] TWO IMPORTANT QUESTIONS!! In-Reply-To: <87g0bjfwpb.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: sorry....it looked like nobody knew :-))) Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org >>>>> "P" == Peter writes: P> This is shmoo.com (from Networksolutions): Hey! Shmoo group folks are vitally important to making the Free Dmitry movement happen. They're good folks. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From ausage at ausage.com Thu Jul 26 10:05:58 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Press coverage in Canada Message-ID: <01072613055800.04206@frankie> A couple a facts wrong, but overall a very good article from the Globe & Mail newspaper, Canada's equivatent of the Walll Street Journal. http://news.globetechnology.com/servlet/GAMArticleHTMLTemplate?tf=globetechnology/TGAM/NewsFullStory.html&cf=globetechnology/tech-config-neutral&slug=TWGEISY&date=20010726 From LGORKIN at mobius.com Thu Jul 26 10:10:57 2001 From: LGORKIN at mobius.com (Leonid Gorkin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] TWO IMPORTANT QUESTIONS!! Message-ID: <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569FA1@ryentes1.mobius.com> Well, actually, while in US you CAN find a job, and apply for "adjustment of status" with INS, you don't need to leave the country to do that. BUT, the process takes at least 4-5 weeks, first, Labor Certification is needed, then INS approval. -----Original Message----- From: Derek Balling [mailto:dredd@megacity.org] Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 1:07 PM To: Anton Chterenlikht Cc: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] TWO IMPORTANT QUESTIONS!! He can't even seek or apply for a job while in the states. Just as, when I go to the UK, I can't look for a job while on my Tourist Visa. Such a move by a "potential employer" might simply make his life even MORE difficult. D (btw, don't crosspost to multiple lists at once, ... the people who reply may not be on both... the UK list was removed on this reply) At 6:01 PM +0100 7/26/01, Anton Chterenlikht wrote: >Well, they do need to employ him really. They will need to say in front >of Mueller >or Shapiro or whoever that they like him, he is a good guy and they would >like to >employ him. I do think this might help, at least, to release Dmitry on >bail. > >anton > >Derek Balling wrote: > >> At 5:24 PM +0100 7/26/01, Anton Chterenlikht wrote: >> >2. >> >Is there anyone in the list who knows a local >> >executive in SF of San Jose? >> >Can this executive employ Dmitry? >> >This would really help to release him on bail. >> >> US Employment laws would forbid it. To get an "employable visa", he'd >> have to leave the country first, get the prospective employer to > > apply for the visa, then return, etc. -- +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | dredd@megacity.org | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them | | | driven before you, and to hear the | | | lamentation of their women!" | +---------------------+-----------------------------------------+ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From debug at centras.lt Thu Jul 26 10:18:48 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Backlash In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1920850175.20010726191848@centras.lt> >> The terms crippled media, controlled content, and controlled usage are >> great for our cause. The term piracy -- even though we are not >> copyright violators ourselves -- is harmful. >> Of course, "violator" and "infringer" aren't great words either. Any >> suggestions? n> Fair use advocate? Fair user? Constitutional defender? we could call him raptor of the public and its needs This is because he grabs needs of the public from original manufacturer then he satisfies these needs of the public and by doing so he catches the public in fascination -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From sklyarov at lethe.com Thu Jul 26 10:33:42 2001 From: sklyarov at lethe.com (Kevin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What hypocrisy Message-ID: <00f001c115f9$1e1fe010$32bca7a7@umgpq5vhu3c1m7> Unbelievable the amount of hypocrisy our government is capable of. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010726/ts/us_china_9.html Free Dmitry you dumb son-of-a-bitch. - Joe Pesci, Lethal Weapon 2 From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 26 10:35:41 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [free-sklyarov-sfba] Flyers for leafletting In-Reply-To: <20010726080034.A7483@shell9.ba.best.com>; from tabindak@best.com on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 08:00:34AM -0700 References: <20010726080034.A7483@shell9.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <20010726103541.C16420@zork.net> Begin Tabinda N. Khan quotation: > Sorry I can't join today. If you have feedback let me know. > The flyer for next Monday will be updated to include info > about what will have happened at the EFF meeting Friday. So I ask, who is going to print these up? You're the one who suggested noon, and I am not going to be there. WHo is going to print up flyers for noon? Who will be attending? -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 26 10:39:51 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [free-sklyarov-sfba] Flyers for leafletting In-Reply-To: <20010726103541.C16420@zork.net> References: <20010726080034.A7483@shell9.ba.best.com> <20010726103541.C16420@zork.net> Message-ID: <87r8v3egig.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt writes: >> Sorry I can't join today. If you have feedback let me know. >> The flyer for next Monday will be updated to include info about >> what will have happened at the EFF meeting Friday. NM> So I ask, who is going to print these up? You're the NM> one who suggested noon, and I am not going to be there. WHo NM> is going to print up flyers for noon? Who will be attending? Kris will be printing out flyers for noon. He and I will be there, as well as anyone else who comes. For 4:30, people are responsible for printing their own copies. Wise people will bring enough to share. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 26 10:41:11 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ANNOUNCEMENT: Free Dmitry Demonstration Monday 11:30am at SF Civic Center! In-Reply-To: <20010726023237.D17614@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 02:32:37AM -0700 References: <20010726023237.D17614@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010726104111.D16420@zork.net> Update: The following announcement forgot to mention the location inside the Plaza: We will meet near the intersection of Fulton and Larkin, near the huge obelisk and Statue commemorating the birth of the United Nations. Simply step out of the Civic Center BART/Muni Metro station using the escalator labeled "UN Plaza" and walk through the park to the statue. City hall will be across the courtyard in front of you, and the library will be to your left. Walk along until you hit Larkin St. See you all there! Nick Moffitt quotation: > With Adobe's show of good faith regarding Dmitry Sklyarov's > persecution by the FBI and DOJ, we can declare last Monday's > demonstration a success! > > But it is a limited success, in that Dmitry Sklyarov still sits in a > federal holding cell in Las Vegas, awaiting the US Marshals to haul > him away in chains to California. > > We can not simply let this happen! We cannot sit idly by and say to > ourselves "Oh, I freed Dmitry last week! Why should I do it again?" > The simple fact is that Dmitry is not free, despite the fact that NO > ONE WANTS HIM IN JAIL! > > Adobe doesn't want him in jail! The general academic community > doesn't want him in jail! The Electronic Publisher's Consortium > doesn't want him in jail! The Free Software community doesn't want > him in jail! Librarians don't want him in jail! Dmitry's wife and > two children certainly do NOT want him in jail! > > LET IT BE KNOWN that we will bang on the doors of the towers of > justice and demand in the loudest voice we have that they... > > 
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> > So here's how you can help us out! > > - Go to the signmaking party this Sunday. Check these mailing lists > for the announcement, or mail vadim@xcf.berkeley.edu for details. > > - Make your own sign if you can't go to the party. Be sure that it is > civil, and does not mention adobe. The key message that we want to > hammer in is "FREE DMITRY", so make sure it says those two words > *somewhere* on it. If you can't make a sign, just being there is > good for the cause! > > - Call up the press and send them this announcement. Many of them > missed the event in San Jose, and now's their chance to cover the > FREE DMITRY movement! > > - Show up at San Francisco's Civic Center Plaza, Monday the 30th of > June at 11:30am PDT. The site is accessible from BART, MUNI Metro, > and any number of MUNI buses. It's the green square marked "City > Hall Plaza" on the following map: > http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=&city=San+Francisco&state=CA&slt=37.775002&sln=-122.418297&mlt=37.779300&mln=-122.417400&name=&zip=&country=us&BFKey=&BFCat=&BFClient=&mag=10&desc=&cs=7&newmag=9&poititle=&poi= > You can spot us because we'll be the ones with the signs and the > shirts that say "FREE DMITRY" on them. > > - Be ready to CALL THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ON THE CARPET! > Be prepared to GIVE THEM A PIECE OF YOUR MIND! Tell these folks to > DROP THE CASE because the DMCA is an UNJUST LAW! DEMAND that they > return this man to his family PRONTO! > > Last Monday's events saw HUNDREDS of demonstrators crying for justice. > The fact that this was achieved with little to no preparation speaks > to the power and widespread respect for the Free Dmitry movement. We > now have four days in which to prepare for this demonstration, so it > will be spectacular! > > So join us now and FREE DMITRY! > > --Nick Moffitt, Coalition to Free Dmitry > > References: > > Free-Sklyarov e-mail mailing list: > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov/ > > Free-Sklyarov e-mail announcement list: > > https://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-announce > > Free Dmitry news page: > > http://freedmitry.org > > Free Sklyarov info page: > > http://freesklyarov.org > > Electronic Frontier Foundation: > > http://eff.org > > > > > -- > "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very > slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda > 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! > ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 26 10:43:23 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ANNOUNCEMENT: Free Dmitry leafletting in SF BART Thursday noon, Thursday 4:30pm, and Friday 8:30am In-Reply-To: <20010726032049.J17614@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 03:20:49AM -0700 References: <20010726032049.J17614@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010726104323.E16420@zork.net> If you wish to print up flyers for this event, you can see them in several formats at http://www.tabinda.com/freedmitry/ . Many thanks to Tabinda for generating this flyer and the one for the previous event! Nick Moffitt quotation: > The Free Dmitry movement is not just about protests and legal talk. > It is also about LETTING PEOPLE KNOW about the injustices perpetrated > against Dmitry Sklyarov. Demonstrations are a great way to get press > attention, but sometimes we can't wait for the press. Sometimes we > have to take matters into our own hands. > > The Russian word "samizdat" means "self publishing". It refers to the > process of distributing information through underground channels. It > means that sometimes a piece of information is so important that it > will be distributed regardless of what those controlling the official > publication channels would do with it. > > Thursday, 26 July 2001 and Friday the 27th are the days when we will > hand out flyers to the thousands of commuters on the Bay Area Rapid > Transit system. BART carries more passengers in a single day than the > US's largest airline, and they travel to all parts of the Bay Area. > > We will meet at the City Hall Plaza at noon for a lunchtime > leafletting in the area, and then again at 4:30pm to catch the rush > hour commuters on their way home. The leaflets passed out in downtown > San Francisco will follow these people as far as Pleasanton, Bay > Point, Fremont, Colma, and Richmond. > > We will do this again on Friday morning at 8:30am to catch these > commuters on their way in to work. > > This is an important prelude to the Monday demonstration! It is not a > protest, rally, or any other such ruckus raising. We're simply going > to hand out informational pamphlets that explain to the lay commuter > what the facts of Dmitry's case are. > > So, once again, here's how you can help out! > > - Mail ctfd@zork.net and offer to print up a run of these leaflets for > the event. The location of the flyer should be posted to these > mailing lists relatively soon. > > - Show up on Thursday at noon or 4:30pm, or on Friday at 8:30am, at > the City Hall Plaza. We will be near the San Francisco Main Public > Library, and should be holding boxes of flyers. The location is > right next to the Civic Center BART and MUNI Metro station, and is > the green square in the center of this map: > http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=&city=San+Francisco&state=CA&slt=37.775002&sln=-122.418297&mlt=37.779300&mln=-122.417400&name=&zip=&country=us&BFKey=&BFCat=&BFClient=&mag=10&desc=&cs=7&newmag=9&poititle=&poi= > > - Hand out leaflets calmly and respectfully. DO NOT FORCE THEM ON > PEOPLE and DO NOT MAKE A MESS. Simply hold them out, perhaps calmly > invite people to free Dmitry, and thank people when they take > fliers. > > We may send people to other stations in order to reach more commuters, > but only if we have enough volunteers. If you're late, just look for > us in or around the BART station! > > We should be handing out leaflets for about an hour or two during the > commute times, in order to reach enough people. > > Free Dmitry! > > --Nick Moffitt, Coalition to Free Dmitry > > -- > "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very > slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda > 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! > ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From adunston at jetstream.com Thu Jul 26 10:51:59 2001 From: adunston at jetstream.com (Adrian Dunston) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Backlash Message-ID: >> Of course, "violator" and "infringer" aren't great words either. Any >> suggestions? > Fair use advocate? Fair user? Constitutional defender? > we could call him raptor of the public and its needs I was actually looking for a term for a person who violates the Constitutional copyright laws (as opposed to the unconstitutional DMCA). Like people who burn and sell hundreds of CDs (without consent of artists and copyright holders) for personal profit. This is the kind of behavior I was referring to as copyright infringement. I didn't mean people who were making personal copies for fair use, or watching DVDs they own on "non-sanctioned" players. This kind of behavior is supposed to be protected by US law. We have to be careful to inform people that we AREN'T AGAINST COPYRIGHTS. We are for the repeal of certain draconian laws overprotecting them. Examples include the idea that the government should bless and make holy the childish encoding schemes companies are using to store their copyrighted content. (A CHILD was arrested for creating DeCSS.) Another example is the fact that every twenty years copyrights are extended twenty more. They currently last 70 years after the death of the creator of content. This is why Mickey Mouse and the "Happy Birthday" song are still copyrighted. (That's why they rarely sing "happy birthday to you..." on sitcoms.) The Constitution says copyrights should have time limits, but if the time limit is constantly extended, it's not really a time limit. I own copyrighted material, and I don't want people copying and distributing it without my permission. Laws reguarding that are fine. I also don't want the goverment to make it illegal to be ABLE to copy and distribute my material. Laws reguarding that are unconstitutional, and should be repealed. Your copy-rights end where my fair use and copy ownership begins. -Adrian P. Dunston __ (sourceCode == freeSpeech) //Support the EFF. http://www.x-omega.com/shirtdept From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 26 10:55:38 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [free-sklyarov-sfba] Flyers for leafletting In-Reply-To: <87r8v3egig.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:39:51AM -0700 References: <20010726080034.A7483@shell9.ba.best.com> <20010726103541.C16420@zork.net> <87r8v3egig.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010726105538.F16420@zork.net> Begin Klepht quotation: > For 4:30, people are responsible for printing their own copies. Wise > people will bring enough to share. Okay folks, this is a CALL TO ACTION! Who here can print up a couple reams of these flyers for us to hand out at 4:30? -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From tabindak at best.com Thu Jul 26 11:16:54 2001 From: tabindak at best.com (Tabinda N. Khan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [free-sklyarov-sfba] Flyers for leafletting In-Reply-To: <20010726103541.C16420@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:35:41AM -0700 References: <20010726080034.A7483@shell9.ba.best.com> <20010726103541.C16420@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010726111654.A7294@shell9.ba.best.com> Quoting Nick Moffitt: > > So I ask, who is going to print these up? You're the one who > suggested noon, and I am not going to be there. WHo is going to print > up flyers for noon? Who will be attending? Must be some miscommunication. I didn't suggest noon and I'm sure I said I couldn't attend but would be willing to make flyers. I think I'll sit closer to the note taker next time. :-) Tabinda -- From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 26 11:20:00 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: UK Free-Sklyarov Mailing List In-Reply-To: <3B60000B.6573A551@sheffield.ac.uk>; from a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 12:33:31PM +0100 References: <3B60000B.6573A551@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20010726112000.C14917@zork.net> Some of these things are no longer true: Anton Chterenlikht writes: > So, instead of making the civil case IAdobe vs Elcomsoftf they?ve chosen the > most vulnerable person available who was Dmitry (probably if Dmitry would go > there with his family they would arrest his wife and children instead of him!). I doubt that -- it's hard to convince the FBI that they broke the law. > Just think about this: Dmitry is innocent (even Adobe recognised this and > finally, after a strong pressure from many people and organisations around the > world said that he should be released from the federal custody). Adobe didn't agree that he's innocent, just that prosecuting him is not in their best interests. I agree with them that prosecuting him is not in their best interests, but unfortunately that might be because it has been turning the public and their customers against Adobe and against the DMCA. > So, he is innocent and.. he is in jail, in a foreign country, with poor English, > far away from his family (his wife Oxana and the two children, son Egor, 2.5 > years old and daughter Polina, only 3 mohths old, they have no money to visit > him even if they will be allowed. At present they aren?t). Now: his family have received "numerous" offers for the full cost of a trip to Las Vegas or the Bay Area. Aside from individual pledges of $20-$100, several individuals have simply offered to underwrite the entire cost personally. Everyone who has spoken to or corresponded with Oksana Sklyarov, including EFF officials and colleagues of Dmitry Sklyarov, has gotten the same reply: Ms. Sklyarov _does not wish to come to the United States_. > There is no reliable information about his whereabouts; no one knows where and > when he?ll turn out next. This situation has been improving: lawyers and his family have been in contact with him at the jail in Las Vegas where he's held. Although the Federal Marshals could move him, lawyers and his family would be able to infer that that had happened, and apparently we even know which jails in Santa Clara County he might end up in. He would only be out of touch for a short time in transit between jails. > How can it be explained that Russian consul still (after 10 days) haven?t got a > permission to see Dmitry I don't believe that any of their requests have been refused. > Finally I would like to repeat the words of two of the leading British > scientists. > > Alan Cox, the leading developer of Linux operating system said: The lead developer is Linus Torvalds; Alan Cox is "second-in-command". -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe From debug at centras.lt Thu Jul 26 11:24:27 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Backlash In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4024789737.20010726202427@centras.lt> AD> I was actually looking for a term for a person who violates the AD> Constitutional copyright laws (as opposed to the unconstitutional DMCA). What is the difference ? Are there really Constitutional copyright laws ? What this term means I say you there is NO ANY just copyrights. AD> Like people who burn and sell hundreds of CDs (without consent of artists AD> and copyright holders) for personal profit. So what ? They help the public to satisfy its needs for cheaper price. What is wrong with that ? AD> I didn't mean people who were making personal copies for fair use, AD> or watching DVDs they own on "non-sanctioned" players. This kind of AD> behavior is supposed to be protected by US law. YOu cant just state the right to use is fare one and the right to compete is unfare. These rights go together. AD> We have to be careful to inform people that we AREN'T AGAINST AD> COPYRIGHTS. We are for the repeal of certain draconian laws overprotecting AD> them. That is exactly what i am talking about - I am against ALL COPYRIGHTS because any copyright can cause conflict. AD> The Constitution says copyrights should have time AD> limits, but if the time limit is constantly extended, it's not really a time AD> limit. It does not matter how long a time limit is . Who is to decide it ? And i say you that it should be zero. AD> I own copyrighted material, and I don't want people copying and AD> distributing it without my permission. Laws reguarding that are fine. And i say that law is bad, because you do not have the right to decide who and how is going to use your material AD> I also don't want the goverment to make it illegal to be ABLE to copy and AD> distribute my material. Laws reguarding that are unconstitutional, and AD> should be repealed. So you admit that people have the right to use your material as they like it. However you feel they should pay for it And you are right. The only thing you do not understand is that they cannot be forced to by but they must do it by there good will -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Thu Jul 26 11:31:35 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: <3B5FFC98.68413A8F@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Seth Johnson wrote: > > > 1) Copy controlled media > > > 2) Usage controlled media > > > 3) Crippled media (My suggestion) > > - Access-restricted media > > - Access-limited media > - Unproductive format/media/etc. Disabled media. -S From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 26 11:34:17 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: UK Free-Sklyarov Mailing List In-Reply-To: <20010726112000.C14917@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 11:20:00AM -0700 References: <3B60000B.6573A551@sheffield.ac.uk> <20010726112000.C14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010726113417.B722@zork.net> Begin The ASCII Floating Head of Seth David Schoen quotation: > This situation has been improving: lawyers and his family have been > in contact with him at the jail in Las Vegas where he's held. > Although the Federal Marshals could move him, lawyers and his family > would be able to infer that that had happened, and apparently we > even know which jails in Santa Clara County he might end up in. He > would only be out of touch for a short time in transit between > jails. The story I heard is that the Federal Marshals use a hub-and-spoke system, so he would first be transported from Las Vegas to Oklahoma or something for routing, at which point he would be sent to Santa Clara County in California. I guess this system makes sense when you think of the problems involved in transporting potentially dangerous individuals (a group of which Dmitry is not a member). -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 26 11:35:38 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [free-sklyarov-sfba] Flyers for leafletting In-Reply-To: <20010726111654.A7294@shell9.ba.best.com>; from tabindak@best.com on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 11:16:54AM -0700 References: <20010726080034.A7483@shell9.ba.best.com> <20010726103541.C16420@zork.net> <20010726111654.A7294@shell9.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <20010726113538.C722@zork.net> Begin Tabinda N. Khan quotation: > Must be some miscommunication. I didn't suggest noon and I'm sure I > said I couldn't attend but would be willing to make flyers. I think > I'll sit closer to the note taker next time. :-) Okay, my bad then. It looks like Evan and Kris have it well in hand. Still, is there anyone here who could print us up some flyers before 4:30 and have them at the UN statue at Fulton and Larkin? -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From debug at centras.lt Thu Jul 26 11:36:36 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2425518989.20010726203636@centras.lt> >> > > 1) Copy controlled media >> > > 2) Usage controlled media >> > > 3) Crippled media (My suggestion) >> > - Access-restricted media >> > - Access-limited media >> - Unproductive format/media/etc. XC> Disabled media. Control-featured media (when manufacturer inserted control features in it) -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From mellon at pobox.com Thu Jul 26 11:47:09 2001 From: mellon at pobox.com (Anatoly Vorobey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Backlash In-Reply-To: ; from Adrian Dunston on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 09:01:47AM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010726214709.43813@techunix.technion.ac.il> You, Adrian Dunston, were spotted writing this on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 09:01:47AM -0700: > I know I'm splitting hairs here but -- like Richard Stallman -- I have to > disagree with our using the term piracy to describe copyright infringement. This is not a new usage. It dates back to the 17th century. > A pirate is a person who boards ships uninvited, murders, rapes, and steals > physical property. That's one meaning of the word; another is a person who infringes on other people's copyrights, especially (but not necessarily) with the purpose of a financial gain. I'm sure that your favourite dictionary will be able to clue you in. Let's leave political correctness in the dustbin of history where it properly belongs. If you want copyright infringement to become a noble affair, I suggest you look into the possibility of proudly using the word "pirate" - like black people have done with "nigger" , or gay people with "gay". > Drafters of copyright law coined the term piracy in order to help justify > the need for laws like the DMCA. Get a historical dictionary, or a clue, or both. -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 26 11:52:33 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [free-sklyarov-sfba] Flyers for leafletting In-Reply-To: <20010726113538.C722@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 11:35:38AM -0700 References: <20010726080034.A7483@shell9.ba.best.com> <20010726103541.C16420@zork.net> <20010726111654.A7294@shell9.ba.best.com> <20010726113538.C722@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010726115233.I722@zork.net> Begin Nick Moffitt quotation: > Still, is there anyone here who could print us up some flyers > before 4:30 and have them at the UN statue at Fulton and Larkin? I know I'm getting rather antsy about this, but could someone please print up some copies of the flyer at http://www.tabinda.com/freedmitry/ and bring them to the Civic Center event? I do not have a printer, but once you have a paper printout making copies becomes easy. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From rabbi at quickie.net Thu Jul 26 11:58:14 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] two questions In-Reply-To: <3B6012C4.DCF96F3D@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Anton Chterenlikht wrote: > 1. > Does anyone know who has opened a paypal account for Dmitry? > How can I be sure that it is Dmitry who'll get the money? > Who is dmitry@shmoo.com? > > https://www.paypal.com/xclick/business=dmitry%40shmoo.com&item_name=Dmitry+Sklyarov&no_shipping=1 That's the paypal account that the BoycottAdobe.com folks opened. -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 26 12:00:33 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] pointless quip Message-ID: <20010726120033.K722@zork.net> There ought to be mandatory minimum prison sentences for the creation or passing of bad law. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From jaed at jaedworks.com Thu Jul 26 11:58:46 2001 From: jaed at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:40 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: UK Free-Sklyarov Mailing List In-Reply-To: <20010726112000.C14917@zork.net> References: <3B60000B.6573A551@sheffield.ac.uk>; from a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 12:33:31PM +0100 <3B60000B.6573A551@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: At 11:20 AM -0700 7/26/2001, Seth David Schoen wrote: >Everyone who has spoken to or corresponded with Oksana Sklyarov, >including EFF officials and colleagues of Dmitry Sklyarov, has gotten >the same reply: Ms. Sklyarov _does not wish to come to the United >States_. It should not be omitted - particularly when talking to the press, etc. - that at least part of her expressed reason for not wanting to do so is the fear that if she comes to this country, she will be picked up by police. In her words: "What I really worry about is a safety of my children. There is a chance that I'll be invided for the "interview" (I mean in Police) as Dmitry' wife -- I'm not scared with that at all, but wish my kids to be with me all the time." A month ago I would have said this fear was silly, in this country, in this day and age. I still don't see any legal way such a thing could happen... ...but then, a month ago if someone had said to me, "I'm a Russian graduate student, the company I work for has a dispute with a large American company and I'm afraid if I go to this conference and speak, the company will get the police to arrest me and I'll be imprisoned in a foreign country, maybe for years," I would have said that was silly too. Clearly I would have been wrong. -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed@jaedworks.com http://www.jaedworks.com What does not kill us makes us stranger. From ausage at ausage.com Thu Jul 26 12:00:34 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: <2425518989.20010726203636@centras.lt> References: <2425518989.20010726203636@centras.lt> Message-ID: <01072615003400.04375@frankie> On July 26, 2001 02:36 pm, DeBug wrote: > >> > > 1) Copy controlled media > >> > > 2) Usage controlled media > >> > > 3) Crippled media (My suggestion) > >> > > >> > - Access-restricted media > >> > - Access-limited media > >> > >> - Unproductive format/media/etc. > > XC> Disabled media. > > Control-featured media > (when manufacturer inserted control features in it) fair-useless media or for short useless media From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Thu Jul 26 12:04:53 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: <2425518989.20010726203636@centras.lt> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, DeBug wrote: > >> > > 1) Copy controlled media > >> > > 2) Usage controlled media > >> > > 3) Crippled media (My suggestion) > >> > - Access-restricted media > >> > - Access-limited media > >> - Unproductive format/media/etc. > > XC> Disabled media. > Control-featured media (when manufacturer inserted control features in it) Usage-monitored media. -S From debug at centras.lt Thu Jul 26 12:09:46 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Backlash In-Reply-To: <20010726144847.W5822@stealth> References: <4024789737.20010726202427@centras.lt> <20010726144847.W5822@stealth> Message-ID: <4127508640.20010726210946@centras.lt> >> Are there really Constitutional copyright laws ? CM> U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 8 I meant REALLY CONSTITUTIONAL. Now i may say you do not understand REAL CONSTITUTION Any copyright is against REAL CONSTITUTION And what i offer here is to start building REAL CONSTITUTION that is based on the use and compete law Now answer to Anatoly post about piracy term: A> That's one meaning of the word; another is a person who infringes on other A> people's copyrights, especially (but not necessarily) with the purpose of A> a financial gain. I'm sure that your favourite dictionary will be able to A> clue you in. If we think about what the essence of copyrights is (privatization of the people needs) we can decide if it is piracy or not person who infringes on other people's copyrights pirates copyrights-owners by stealing the need of people and this is not a piracy because needs of people belong to people -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From jono at microshaft.org Thu Jul 26 12:11:40 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW: Press Release Message-ID: <20010726121140.H23664@networkcommand.com> ----------Forwarded Message----------------- Press Release For Immediate Release: July 26, 2001 ------------------------------------ NY - 26 Religious organizations today filed suit against the three largest genetic research corporations in a class action lawsuit. The complaint aims to halt these organization's research of the human genetic code. Other genetic research pursuits were not named in the suit. Bishop Write explained, "We believe these companies are reverse engineering the human genetic code for profit. While the benefits may be great, we cannot allow them to continue." This action, covered by the 1998 Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA), alleges the companies are knowingly engaging in the Circumvention of Protection systems and could use this information to make a clone. "Once this system is cracked, the information could be used to reproduce a copy of a human being through unnatural means," Bishop Write said. The organizations which include Monsanto, Perkin-Elmer and Genentec are seeking a review of the DMCA and asking for a stay of the injunction. "This law could seriously delay or stop our research efforts into the Human Genome. Drug discovery could be seriously impacted and our main concern is making people better," stated a spokesperson for Genentec. "Therefore, we are asking for further review. We aren't interested in making a copy or clone, we just want to know how. The law [DMCA] is very broad. Who do they claim the Copyright holder is for the Human Genenome? The law is very vague, and related to the World Intellectual Property Organization. We are a US Corporation and feel we should not be controlled by the WIPO. You would think with all the anti-globalization protests around the world the US government would get the picture. " But the Religious organizations were unmoved: "Hitler was attempting to create a super-race. At that time they didn't have they the technical means to sequence genes, so he was going about it the old fashioned way using nature. Well, we didn't like it then and we don't like it now," the Bishop stated. In a separate case filed by the religious community, they also name numerous genetic companies asking for release of documents containing the first pieces of the decyphered genetic code. "All along they've been telling people its just ATGC, a couple nucleic acids. Did they really think we didn't know that was encryption? Well we know about the message and we are asking that they release it." The Bishop continued: "This whole time SETI has been looking into the stars for some communication, well we knew all along. Your genetic code is the communication. The Churches have need of that data and we will sue to get it." ================================================================ --------------End Forwarded Message------------- http://www.anti-dmca.org I'm Pro-Thought: Keep your laws off my mind! From mellon at pobox.com Thu Jul 26 12:14:04 2001 From: mellon at pobox.com (Anatoly Vorobey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Backlash In-Reply-To: <4127508640.20010726210946@centras.lt>; from DeBug on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 09:09:46PM +0200 References: <4024789737.20010726202427@centras.lt> <20010726144847.W5822@stealth> <4127508640.20010726210946@centras.lt> Message-ID: <20010726221404.05731@techunix.technion.ac.il> You, DeBug, were spotted writing this on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 09:09:46PM +0200: > CM> U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 8 > I meant REALLY CONSTITUTIONAL. > Now i may say you do not understand REAL CONSTITUTION > Any copyright is against REAL CONSTITUTION Nonsense. > And what i offer here is to start building REAL CONSTITUTION > that is based on the use and compete law No, what you offer is some incoherent blathering. > person who infringes on other people's copyrights pirates > copyrights-owners by stealing the need of people and this is not > a piracy because needs of people belong to people While we're at it, let's leave Marxist propaganda in the dustbin of history, where it firmly belongs, as well. -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton From jono at microshaft.org Thu Jul 26 12:17:23 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Corporate America Flag Jam Message-ID: <20010726121723.I23664@networkcommand.com> Cooperation? http://www.adbusters.org/campaigns/july4/nyc.html http://www.adbusters.org/campaigns/july4/ http://www.adbusters.org/campaigns/july4/photos/ From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 26 12:22:08 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Backlash In-Reply-To: <4024789737.20010726202427@centras.lt>; from debug@centras.lt on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 08:24:27PM +0200 References: <4024789737.20010726202427@centras.lt> Message-ID: <20010726122208.G14917@zork.net> DeBug writes: > AD> I was actually looking for a term for a person who violates the > AD> Constitutional copyright laws (as opposed to the unconstitutional DMCA). > What is the difference ? > Are there really Constitutional copyright laws ? What this term means > I say you there is NO ANY just copyrights. The U.S. Constitution says that Congress has power (though not an obligation) to enact copyright laws. Some people have argued that the first amendment (which prevents Congress from making laws "abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press") subsequently _took away_ that power, so that, after the Bill of Rights was approved, the Constitution no longer allowed Congress to enact copyright laws. I think this argument is reasonable, and all copyright is a restriction on freedom of speech which might not be accepted today if it were proposed from scratch. ("What? You're going to let corporations _OWN INFORMATION_? What are you thinking?") It's easy to see the amount of opposition raised by new "intellectual property" laws and new "protectible subject matter" -- genome patents, business method patents, "sui generis database rights". Douglas Hofstadter had a great point in his _Metamagical Themas_ about the power of tradition. He made an argument that automobiles would be disfavored today if they were a new invention and their safety and environmental risks were well-known -- the number of annual deaths from automobiles is simply vast and the risks to the average individual from day-to-day travel grew substantially in most parts of the world as automobiles were deployed in large numbers. But because they are by now traditional, and do provide other benefits, there isn't overwhelming public sentiment against automobiles. Since _some kind_ of copyright is very traditional in the U.S. and there are industries based on it, it's hard to imagine having it go away altogether. The argument that copyright is "necessary" for creative and artistic work is bogus, but obviously the landscape would be changed dramatically without copyright. Someone actually tried a lawsuit arguing that all copyright is unconstitutional. The Supreme Court's view was that it is not (although some cases have held that the existence of "fair use" is a requirement in order for copyright laws not to run afoul of the first amendment). As someone with a tendency to first amendment absolutism, I find it difficult to agree with all the reasoning in these cases. However, these decisions are well-settled and it doesn't seem that the Supreme Court will revisit the issues. What are the biggest harms from copyright today? It's not that people have to pay for books and movies! As long as public libraries are strong, it's not a big deal that you have to go pay $12 or $20 if you want your own copy of something. Yes, certain prices have been inflated, but the "having to pay for copies" isn't a terrible harm to the public. The real harms are the erosion of protections for the public's side of the copyright bargain -- the attacks on the fair use and first sale doctrines, for example. The real harms are when copyright keeps works out of print, even when somebody wants to buy them (and people like Eric Eldred are prevented from reprinting them on-line). The real harms are when copyright is used to withdraw and suppress a book (because someone's heirs find it embarrassing). The real harms are when copyright is used to prevent criticism and parody -- which happens all the time, even though the law is supposed to protect those uses. The real harms are also where copyright is used as a lever to gain control in other areas, as where copyright interests try to influence or control technology. And again where copyright terms are repeatedly extended, even retroactively, so that the public domain becomes impoverished. All of these things are significant risks which seem to be getting worse, because some copyright holders have convinced many people, including themselves, that copyright is a form of property over information, that certain information really is "their property". (Seth F.: property in sense of the absolute and unqualified right to control use and to exclude others, forever.) Of course, traditional copyright law doesn't say that; it says that copyright holders have certain specific enumerated exclusive rights, for a limited time, and then that's the end of it. Very different from real and personal law, where you have _almost_ every possible exclusive right, forever. I was really affected by reading Richard M. Stallman's "Re-evaluating Copyright: The Public Must Prevail" (which is available on the FSF's web site). This is a law review article by the founder of the free software movement. Stallman argues that, as long as copyrights exist, _they must exist to serve the public interest_ and not only the interest of particular copyright holders. You'd think that would be common sense, but much debate about copyright proceeds along "how can we best protect owners?" lines. It's being forgotten that traditional copyright in the U.S. was conceived as a (to use my term) public subsidy to promote creative work; instead, many people think of it as an inherent right of copyright holders, to which they are automatically entitled. I think that changing the terms of the debate will do much more to mitigate copyright's harms than will eliminating copyright. > AD> Like people who burn and sell hundreds of CDs (without consent of artists > AD> and copyright holders) for personal profit. > So what ? They help the public to satisfy its needs for cheaper price. > What is wrong with that ? There is nothing inherently wrong with it; whether the government's law again it makes it wrong depends on your political philosophy. I suggested in a letter that copyright infringement is somewhat like tax evasion: http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/copyright-subsidy.txt If you think evading taxes is wrong, you might also think infringing copyrights is wrong (because the government has legislated an obligation for you to pay what the copyright holder demands, in order to effect a social policy, much the way the government tells you to pay money in other cases, to be spent to effect other policies). This is not to say that people have to think that either of these things is wrong. I do think (after Stallman) that infringing copyrights is different from "stealing", because it doesn't take anything away from the copyright holder. But it does say "I don't respect this policy of compensating people for creative work". There are a lot of things in modern copyright not to respect, of course, and as copyright law is expanded over and over again, more and more people may see it as absurd and irrelevant. Perhaps if copyright law were again more "reasonable", more people would feel guilty about violating it. > AD> I didn't mean people who were making personal copies for fair use, > AD> or watching DVDs they own on "non-sanctioned" players. This kind of > AD> behavior is supposed to be protected by US law. > YOu cant just state the right to use is fare one and > the right to compete is unfare. These rights go together. There is some legal background for the distinction in the U.S. It's true that the logical difference is not necessarily very profound, so it's really a matter of legal history. > AD> We have to be careful to inform people that we AREN'T AGAINST > AD> COPYRIGHTS. We are for the repeal of certain draconian laws overprotecting > AD> them. > That is exactly what i am talking about - I am against ALL COPYRIGHTS > because any copyright can cause conflict. So my point for the Free Sklyarov movement is that -- because most people are not against copyrights, and many respected copyright supporters, like Brad Templeton, have been doing crucial work here -- it's not _necessary_ to oppose copyright to see why Sklyarov should be free. And most people in the movement probably support copyright. Lawyers in court normally argue the most relevant and least objectionable theories which will support their clients. So for example a lawyer defending Sklyarov might say "17 USC 1201 is unconstitutional as applied to Sklyarov" rather than "17 USC is unconstitutional in its entirety on its face". There is sure a criminal defense lawyer somewhere in the United States who believes that, but a court is not going to be very impressed by the broad claim. I think the same situation sometimes applies to building movements. In order to have a united, powerful movement, it's good to focus on the things with which everyone can agree. In this movement, that's probably something like "the DMCA is unjust" and "it was wrong to arrest Sklyarov", not something like "all copyright laws are unjust". It's then a tactical question whether you want to make connections with other movements, to try to get people to see a bigger picture as you see it. This might alienate some people. (For example, a few people proposed getting in touch with the U.S. National Rifle Association, which defends the legal right to own guns, and trying to convince them that, if AEBPR is like a weapon, they should support it. I think this argument is weak for other reasons, but another point is that the NRA has an agenda which could alienate some people.) It's difficult to determine how to choose a focus: different people see a particular case as part of _different_ big pictures, and if they want to work together, they will have some conflicts because of that. I've had trouble appreciating this point in the past, and I think that getting a better understanding of it is important for me and other maturing activists. But in a very broad campaign aimed at a particular goal -- like freeing Dmitry Sklyarov -- you can often get broader support if you keep your arguments as narrow and as close to the particular issue as you're comfortable with. And that's a point of tactics, not ethics. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From esper at sherohman.org Thu Jul 26 12:22:20 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Disks In-Reply-To: ; from moseng2@underwhelm.org on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:59:46AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010726142220.H18082@sherohman.org> On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:59:46AM -0500, nobody wrote: > *If* he was giving away disks, then that makes it a little harder to > describe as "commercial advantage or private financial gain," which is > required for criminal prosecution. I dunno about that. I think Microsoft has amply demonstrated that you can give something away free for "commercial advantage". -- With the arrest of Dimitry Sklyarov it has become apparent that it is not safe for non US software engineers to visit the United States. - Alan Cox "To prevent unauthorized reading..." - Adobe eBook reader license From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 26 12:38:56 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ADMINISTRIVIA: HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE In-Reply-To: <000001c11598$c2b5ef40$f9aef7a5@redwolf>; from lordgreywolf@earthlink.net on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 09:20:35PM -0400 References: <000001c11598$c2b5ef40$f9aef7a5@redwolf> Message-ID: <20010726123856.J14917@zork.net> Glen writes: > unsuscribe Hey everybody -- Please do not send administrative requests to the mailing list itself! (That doesn't work, doesn't get you unsubscribed.) The only ways to unsubscribe are: (1) Send a message to free-sklyarov-request@zork.net with the word "unsubscribe". Note that this is free-sklyarov-REQUEST, _not_ free-sklyarov. (2) Use the web form http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov/ under the section which says "To change your subscription (set options like digest and delivery modes, get a reminder of your password, or unsubscribe from free-sklyarov)". You need to enter your e-mail address and list password -- which was sent to you when you signed up and can be sent to you if you (3) Ask free-sklyarov-owner@zork.net (note free-sklyarov-OWNER, not free-sklyarov) for help, _if that doesn't work for you_. Thanks for keeping this in mind! If you are unsubscribing because of high volume, please consider joining https://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-announce/ and/or a regional mailing list for the place where you live (e.g. the San Francisco, Chicago, Seattle, Portland, Chicago, or Russia lists). -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Thu Jul 26 12:40:55 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Wanted: Lovable hero for copyright battle? In-Reply-To: <20010726142220.H18082@sherohman.org> Message-ID: "Lovable hero for copyright battle?" What, like, a Franklin Mint ceramic figurine of a sad puppy shedding a single tear in front of a padlocked book? One interesting reader response on that web page: "The new term is Profitright not Copyright - Copyright belonged to the original owner, profitright goes to the distributor!" -S [Well, how else do we raise copyright issues with the PAX-TV "Touched by an Angel" demographic?] From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 26 12:43:20 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] *Heavy sigh of exhaustion* In-Reply-To: <3B5FD3DC.21560.D9D98B9@localhost>; from moeller@scireview.de on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 08:25:00AM +0200 References: <3B5FB31F.350E@indierecords.com> <3B5FD3DC.21560.D9D98B9@localhost> Message-ID: <20010726124320.K14917@zork.net> Erik Moeller writes: > PS: Is there a European mailing list for discussing our equivalent of > the DMCA, the EU directive on copyright? If not, would there be > interest in creating/participating in such a mailing list? Start with http://www.eurorights.org/ -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 26 12:47:21 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Wanted: Lovable hero for copyright battle? In-Reply-To: ; from sacraver@EE.Princeton.EDU on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 03:40:55PM -0400 References: <20010726142220.H18082@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20010726124721.L14917@zork.net> Xcott Craver writes: > "Lovable hero for copyright battle?" What, like, a Franklin Mint > ceramic figurine of a sad puppy shedding a single tear in front > of a padlocked book? My favorite cartoonist is visiting on Sunday and I'll ask her whether she's willing to draw this cartoon. "One of a signed, limited, numbered eBook edition -- yours if you act now. Operators are standing by..." -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From declan at well.com Thu Jul 26 12:49:43 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Disks In-Reply-To: ; from moseng2@underwhelm.org on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:59:46AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010726154943.A2319@cluebot.com> When was the affidavit filed? When was the alleged distribution taking place? Watch for the Feds to argue that by giving away disks for free, he was helping to seed the market for his firm's $100 for-profit product. -Declan On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:59:46AM -0500, nobody wrote: > *If* he was giving away disks, then that makes it a little harder to > describe as "commercial advantage or private financial gain," which is > required for criminal prosecution. That, and it wasn't mentioned in the > complaint. > > Free Dmitry. > Repeal the DMCA. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 26 12:57:51 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ANNOUNCEMENT: Free Dmitry Demonstration Monday 11:30am at SF Civic Center! In-Reply-To: <20010726023237.D17614@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 02:32:37AM -0700 References: <20010726023237.D17614@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010726125751.P722@zork.net> Nick Moffitt quotation: > - Show up at San Francisco's Civic Center Plaza, Monday the 30th of > June at 11:30am PDT. My apologies for any confusion, but the protest is on for JULY 30th, not June as the announcement stated. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 26 13:26:19 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [Fwd: Rob McGee: ADA? Disabilities, discrimination] Message-ID: <20010726132619.P14917@zork.net> I was asked to forward this to the list. My view is that there is at the very least an issue with the use of eBook software in or by government agencies; however, the Federal government would probably not use the format anyway. I have asked people to write to the National Federation for the Blind (see "http://www.blind.org/") concerning Adobe's view (and the view of most of the DRM world) that it's OK for publishers to prevent third-party software from reading eBooks. I have not heard that anybody has yet contacted them. ----- Forwarded message from Rob McGee ----- Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:18:01 -0500 From: Rob McGee Subject: ADA? Disabilities, discrimination [Request to forward this to free-sklyarov snipped.] I've seen numerous mentions of the fact that Adobe eBooks are not accessible to the blind using their text-to-speech readers. But has anyone checked on the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) as a possible way to fight this? IANAL, just one of their many victims. What I have read about ADA is that it applies to public entities or those who receive gov't funds. In my mind, which is far more radical[1] than most who post on the list, Adobe became a public agency by exercising their DMCA prosecutorial power. At the least, they are receiving gov't services (FBI enforcement of DMCA) to assist them in maintaining the artifically-inflated value of their eBook product line. Legally speaking I suppose that this would be a weak argument, because IIRC from Civics class (when I was an inmate in the USA's mandatory gov't-controlled child indoctrination centers) Congress can supercede itself at any time with any new law, and the newer law prevails. Still, it's an interesting angle for our side in at least two ways. In talking to members of Congress, it might be influential because in their stupid zeal in passing DMCA, they probably had no idea that they were weakening ADA. It certainly wasn't their intent. Second, it might help us mobilize a powerful and sympathetic lobby in support of our cause. Dmitri was/is a hero in providing equal access to eBooks against the greed of the IP lawyers. I want to reiterate what others have said: Adobe is not out of this by virtue of their joint statement with EFF. This whole mess was and is all to protect their snake-oil encryption, which was and is totally indefensible. They didn't admit to wrongdoing, and they didn't back down in their support of totalitarianism. Was there any money (funds for Dmitri's defense) or effort on the part of their legal dep't (to try to free Dmitri) behind their empty press release? No, I'll bet it was only words. Carefully chosen words in an attempt to minimize the devastation caused by their actions. We owe it to Dmitri and to ourselves to continue our efforts to maximize the devastation. Bill and Pablos, the work of boycottadobe.com is far from over while Dmitri is confined with the other victims of US totalitarianism (those whom you called "murderers and rapists.") I know I'm drifting from the subject, and I'm sorry, but since this will probably be my only post to the list I am lumping it all together. Those of you who wrote about bringing Oksana here: that's insane! The USA is a place where thugs with guns can (and routinely do) jail people they don't like. If I went to town today and spoke to one of the thugs on the street, telling him the kind of things I'm writing in this e-mail, you can bet that I would spend the weekend in jail. And the only murderers and rapists who would scare me would be the ones with the keys. Bye all, and thanks for reading. And thanks also to those of you who are working to try to let Dmitri return home to his family. Rob - /dev/rob0 [1] My radicalism came from the experience of oppression in the USA. Those of you who aren't as obviously different as I am probably have not yet experienced it. Yeah, conformity is freedom ... and freedom is slavery, war is peace, and ignorance is strength. ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca Thu Jul 26 13:29:14 2001 From: tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: <2425518989.20010726203636@centras.lt> Message-ID: > 1) Copy controlled media > 2) Usage controlled media > 3) Crippled media (My suggestion) > 4) Access-restricted media > 5) Access-limited media > 6) Unproductive format/media/etc. > 7) Disabled media. 8) Supervised media The media comes with a supervisor -- a program that decides what to allow you to do and what not. Disobeying the supervisor may result in imprisonment. Sneaking away from the supervisor is in violation of DMCA. Worst of all, you have to pay for your supervisor. TAA ----------------------------------------------------- Tony Abou-Assaleh Graduate Student, Department of Computer Science University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, Canada, N2L 3G1 Office: DC2503 Phone: (519) 888-4567 Ext. 3399 Email: taa@acm.org -----------------------[THE END]--------------------- On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, DeBug wrote: > > Control-featured media > (when manufacturer inserted control features in it) > > -- > Best regards, > DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 26 13:34:02 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [free-sklyarov-sfba] Flyers for leafletting In-Reply-To: <20010726113538.C722@zork.net> References: <20010726080034.A7483@shell9.ba.best.com> <20010726103541.C16420@zork.net> <20010726111654.A7294@shell9.ba.best.com> <20010726113538.C722@zork.net> Message-ID: <87wv4vfn0l.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt writes: NM> Still, is there anyone here who could print us up some NM> flyers before 4:30 and have them at the UN statue at Fulton NM> and Larkin? Good news: I have a ream of flyers that Kris brought today. Bad news: I have work obligations and I can't get out to the statue by 4:30. If someone can contact me off list, I can meet them downtown to give out the flyers. Sorry, but so much time off this week already... gar. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From adunston at jetstream.com Thu Jul 26 13:31:24 2001 From: adunston at jetstream.com (Adrian Dunston) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Backlash Message-ID: From: Seth David Schoen [mailto:schoen@loyalty.org] >The U.S. Constitution says that Congress has power (though not an >obligation) to enact copyright laws. >... >But in a very broad campaign aimed at a particular goal -- like >freeing Dmitry Sklyarov -- you can often get broader support if you >keep your arguments as narrow and as close to the particular issue as >you're comfortable with. And that's a point of tactics, not ethics. Seth, Thank you for rebutting my points better than I could and for bringing up the broader points that I hadn't considered. -Adrian P. Dunston __ (sourceCode == freeSpeech) //Support the EFF. http://www.x-omega.com/shirtdept From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 26 13:42:22 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ANNOUNCEMENT: Free Dmitry Demonstration Monday 11:30am at SF Civic Center! In-Reply-To: <20010726125751.P722@zork.net> References: <20010726023237.D17614@zork.net> <20010726125751.P722@zork.net> Message-ID: <87snfjfmmp.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "NM" == Nick Moffitt writes: NM> Nick Moffitt quotation: >> - Show up at San Francisco's Civic Center Plaza, Monday the >> 30th of June at 11:30am PDT. NM> My apologies for any confusion, but the protest is on for JULY NM> 30th, not June as the announcement stated. My favorite Monday moment was talking to a freedom advocate who is also a well-noted tech reporter for a very large newspaper somewhere east of Sacramento. Faaar east of Sacramento. I asked as we were getting started, "Are you covering this event, or are you participating?" Him: "I already filed my report a few days ago." Me: "Really? So, how did our protest go?" Him: "Splendidly!" Turned out he was absolutely right. What a great reporter. Free Dmitry, ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From keith at indierecords.com Thu Jul 26 13:53:47 2001 From: keith at indierecords.com (Keith Handy) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Oink? References: Message-ID: <3B60835B.99B@indierecords.com> Would anyone happen to be able to get me a screenshot from the animated version of Animal Farm, in which the pig (I forget if it's Napoleon or the other evil one -- isn't it "Squealer" or something?) is on a ladder painting alterations to the commandments (i.e. No Animal Shall Kill Another Animal - WITHOUT CAUSE)? Email me if you can get me one. I'd like to create a take-off on it, dealing with the potential erosion of the Bill of Rights. This may be too dark an image to present to the higher-ups, but it might help with motivating those of us in the trenches. Any suggestions on the wording of it can also be directed to my email so I don't miss them here. Thanks! -Keith From jstyre at jstyre.com Thu Jul 26 13:48:06 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] pointless quip In-Reply-To: <20010726120033.K722@zork.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010726134636.00b1aa78@earthlink.net> At 12:00 PM 7/26/2001 -0700, Nick Moffitt wrote: >There ought to be mandatory minimum prison sentences for the creation >or passing of bad law. You would, of course, have to amend the Constitution to do so, at least for federal lawmakers. -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 26 13:53:55 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Oink? In-Reply-To: <3B60835B.99B@indierecords.com>; from keith@indierecords.com on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 04:53:47PM -0400 References: <3B60835B.99B@indierecords.com> Message-ID: <20010726135355.S722@zork.net> Begin Keith Handy quotation: > Would anyone happen to be able to get me a screenshot from the animated > version of Animal Farm, in which the pig (I forget if it's Napoleon or > the other evil one -- isn't it "Squealer" or something?) is on a ladder > painting alterations to the commandments (i.e. No Animal Shall Kill > Another Animal - WITHOUT CAUSE)? Your best bet is to get the anniversary edition of the book. It's illustrated by Ralph Steadman, and has some great images of the rule wall. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 26 13:55:33 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] pointless quip In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010726134636.00b1aa78@earthlink.net>; from jstyre@jstyre.com on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 01:48:06PM -0700 References: <20010726120033.K722@zork.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010726134636.00b1aa78@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20010726135533.W14917@zork.net> James S. Tyre writes: > At 12:00 PM 7/26/2001 -0700, Nick Moffitt wrote: > >There ought to be mandatory minimum prison sentences for the creation > >or passing of bad law. > > You would, of course, have to amend the Constitution to do so, at least for > federal lawmakers. I learned this fact from you, so you've got me trained to explain it to other people. :-) They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place. U.S. Const., Art. I, Sec. 6 -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 26 14:00:09 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Administrivia: post from exact subscribed address! (was: Re: Mirrors Illegal Under the DMCA) In-Reply-To: <20010726164942.K43440-100000@bsd1.nyct.net>; from cycmn@nyct.net on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 04:54:03PM -0400 References: <20010726164942.K43440-100000@bsd1.nyct.net> Message-ID: <20010726140009.X14917@zork.net> J.E. Cripps writes: > P.S. this isn't posted to the list because it doesn't recognize me > as a member, I think I replied to a forwareded post before I joined and it > didn't forgive me after I joined. You were subscribed as cycmn@mail.nyct.net but posted as cycmn@nyct.net. Even a difference like that is sufficient to trigger the spam filters. (People who are not subscribed are not allowed to post, a policy which has already kept a dozen spam messages off the list.) I have updated your address in the allowed poster list; everyone who's still having trouble with rejected posts should be aware of possibilities like this. -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe From adunston at jetstream.com Thu Jul 26 13:58:25 2001 From: adunston at jetstream.com (Adrian Dunston) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Backlash Message-ID: From: Anatoly Vorobey [mailto:mellon@pobox.com] >You, Adrian Dunston, were spotted writing this on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 09:01:47AM -0700: >> I know I'm splitting hairs here but -- like Richard Stallman -- I have to >> disagree with our using the term piracy to describe copyright infringement. >This is not a new usage. It dates back to the 17th century. When the idea of owning printed content was gaining acceptance, this word was introduced to create an emotional connection to prosecuting rogue publishers. The age of the term does not change its inadequacy of description nor the reason for its introduction into the language. >> A pirate is a person who boards ships uninvited, murders, rapes, and steals >> physical property. >That's one meaning of the word; another is a person who infringes on other >people's copyrights, especially (but not necessarily) with the purpose of >a financial gain. I'm sure that your favourite dictionary will be able to >clue you in. I concede that your definition is correct in an evolving language, but I will personally avoid using it and encourage others to do the same. Webster's of 1913 agrees with me. WorldNet and the Free Online Dictionary of Computing agree with you. (http://www.dict.org). >Let's leave political correctness in the dustbin of history where it properly >belongs. I'm not arguing for political correctness. I find the social over-regulation of speech abhorrent. I would rather not ask people to modify their speech patterns. Unfortunately this fight is going to deal a lot with image, and calling people evil nasty hacker PIRATE degenerates is the sort of thing that won the DeCSS case for the MPAA. >If you want copyright infringement to become a noble affair, I suggest >you look into the possibility of proudly using the word "pirate" - like black >people have done with "nigger" , or gay people with "gay". It worked for "gay" which was a happy term to begin with, but it did not work for "nigger" which -- here in North Carolina -- I am socially forbidden from saying in public. (It actually upsets people.) I'm not championing the cause of piracy, I'm merely trying to keep it linguistically separate from raping and pillaging which often require stronger laws and penalties. >> Drafters of copyright law coined the term piracy in order to help justify >> the need for laws like the DMCA. >Get a historical dictionary, or a clue, or both. I was not referring to US law. Historically, the term was used to make infringing printers look bad to people who otherwise wouldn't care. I do not have a historical dictionary (until they put the Oxford English online in its entirety) but I do have two or three clues. I apologize for telling you how to talk, and ask that you understand significance of our words and thier connotations. -Adrian P. Dunston __ (sourceCode == freeSpeech) //Support the EFF. http://www.x-omega.com/shirtdept From mw at themail.com Thu Jul 26 14:10:02 2001 From: mw at themail.com (mw@themail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] protests Message-ID: <200107261709389.SM00459@mail.TheMail.com> Monday - not sure if you knew. Albuquerque was a go. Drove up there. It was great. People asked questions and responded by Honking and we even got a few WooTs. it went so well! Protest planned for Sat am in Phoenix 8AM at the Sandra Day O'connor Federal Building. http://www.dmcasucks.org __________________________________________________________________ TheMail.com - Full featured premium email you can count on. Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ From karee at tstonramp.com Thu Jul 26 14:25:16 2001 From: karee at tstonramp.com (karee) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fair Use in the Electronic Age In-Reply-To: <200107260358.f6Q3wQR91696@www1.mailru.com> References: <200107260358.f6Q3wQR91696@www1.mailru.com> Message-ID: <72100518580.20010726142516@tstonramp.com> Wednesday, July 25, 2001, 8:58:26 PM, you wrote: AM> http://www.arl.org/info/frn/copy/fairuse.html AM> The following was said by Justice Sandra Day O'Connor AM> in the case 'Feist Publications, Inc. v. Rural AM> Telephone Service Co': AM> "The primary objective of copyright is not to reward AM> the labor of authors, but to promote the Progress of AM> Science and useful Arts. To this end, copyright AM> assures authors the right to their original AM> expression, but encourages others to build freely upon AM> the ideas and information conveyed by a work. This AM> result is neither unfair nor unfortunate. It is the AM> means by which copyright advances the progress of AM> science and art". AM> The Copyright Law states that: AM> Without infringing copyright, the public has a right AM> to expect: AM> ---to read, listen to, or view publicly marketed AM> copyrighted material privately, on site or remotely; AM> ---to browse through publicly marketed copyrighted AM> material; AM> ---to experiment with variations of copyrighted AM> material for fair use purposes, while preserving the AM> integrity of the original; AM> ---to make or have made for them a first generation AM> copy for personal use of an article or other small AM> part of a publicly marketed copyrighted work or a work AM> in a library's collection for such purpose as study, AM> scholarship, or research; and AM> ---to make transitory copies if ephemeral or AM> incidental to a lawful use and if retained only AM> temporarily. AM> Best regards, AM> Alexander Moskalyuk AM> http://www.moskalyuk.com/ AM> ICQ 44065387 AM> _______________________________________________ AM> free-sklyarov mailing list AM> free-sklyarov@zork.net AM> http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov Good case, but not terribly relevant for this situation. This isn't a copyright infringement case. Thats the bitch of the DMCA. It made it that much easier for the Copyright holders, but not making them prove that which had to be proven in Feist. In that case, copying the information straight out of your competitor is fine, so long as you dont' steal the -exact- way he does it. Put to death the old 'sweat of the brow ' argument. Unfortunately, the DMCA made it even illegal to try to look at the competitors work, (provided he had some kind of copyright protection (or whatever the hell you want to call it) on their product. Screw copying, merely breaking the security is now wrong. Feist is a great example of why the heck we need to kill the DMCA though. FWIW, I did a paper recently on the whole DMCA issue, in relation to Trafficking and the DeCSS case. If anyone is interested its at : http://www.tstonramp.com/~carey/paperfinal.html -- -BB Information wants to, and should always remain, free. karee mailto:karee@tstonramp.com From adunston at jetstream.com Thu Jul 26 14:12:42 2001 From: adunston at jetstream.com (Adrian Dunston) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Oink? Message-ID: From: Keith Handy >Would anyone happen to be able to get me a screenshot from the animated >version of Animal Farm... Interesting Historical Note: http://www.flipside.org/vol3/mar00/00mr29b.htm Back in 1955, the CIA (United States Central Intelligence Agency) actually bought the rights to make the animated film Animal Farm (as well as a few others) in order to make sure the film was "on message". I love my government. -Adrian P. Dunston __ (sourceCode == freeSpeech) //Support the EFF. http://www.x-omega.com/shirtdept From gbroiles at well.com Thu Jul 26 14:17:07 2001 From: gbroiles at well.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [Fwd: Rob McGee: ADA? Disabilities, discrimination] In-Reply-To: <20010726132619.P14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010726140053.044e9190@pop3.norton.antivirus> > >IANAL, just one of their many victims. What I have read about ADA is >that it applies to public entities or those who receive gov't funds. In >my mind, which is far more radical[1] than most who post on the list, >Adobe became a public agency by exercising their DMCA prosecutorial >power. At the least, they are receiving gov't services (FBI enforcement >of DMCA) to assist them in maintaining the artifically-inflated value >of their eBook product line. The ADA applies to employers, public entities, public transit, and public accomodations like restaurants, hotels, schools, etc. Adobe is not a public agency, nor do they have "DMCA prosecutorial power". The information found at this site provides a simple introduction - >[1] My radicalism came from the experience of oppression in the USA. > Those of you who aren't as obviously different as I am probably have > not yet experienced it. Yeah, conformity is freedom ... and freedom > is slavery, war is peace, and ignorance is strength. but some people's brains are so full of politics that facts are no longer interesting. There probably is some interesting work to be done by setting up interference between the ADA and the DMCA, but it's unlikely to have much to do with freeing Dmitry, and hence is probably more appropriate for some other forum. -- -- Greg Broiles gbroiles@well.com From mellon at pobox.com Thu Jul 26 14:19:34 2001 From: mellon at pobox.com (Anatoly Vorobey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Backlash In-Reply-To: ; from Adrian Dunston on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 01:58:25PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010727001934.21952@techunix.technion.ac.il> You, Adrian Dunston, were spotted writing this on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 01:58:25PM -0700: > >> I know I'm splitting hairs here but -- like Richard Stallman -- I have to > >> disagree with our using the term piracy to describe copyright > infringement. > > >This is not a new usage. It dates back to the 17th century. > > When the idea of owning printed content was gaining acceptance, this word > was introduced to create an emotional connection to prosecuting rogue > publishers. I don't think this is correct. The copyright in England was not thought as a form of intellectual *property* until much much later. As you no doubt are aware, the Framers didn't consider it a form of property either, at the end of the 18th century. And I'm not sure just how often rogue publishers were actually prosecuted; but it's true that the word was borrowed from its more usual meaning, and it was enthusiastically used by authors, because authors felt that the rogue publishers were depriving them of their livelyhood - the official publishers couldn't pay much, if any, money to the author if the book was widely pirated. > The age of the term does not change its inadequacy of > description nor the reason for its introduction into the language. Why is it inadequate for description? It's perfectly adequate. The whole business of sea-pirate-association is a huge red herring. Speakers of a language pick out the word's meaning using the context, and unless there're strong social reasons to consider the word a stand-in for a different one (for instance, if it's an euphemism of a taboo), the word doesn't normally invoke any irrelevant associations. With your attitude, it'd make sense to ask the British to refrain from using their perfectly ordinary word "fag" in the sense of "a cigarette". > > >That's one meaning of the word; another is a person who infringes on other > >people's copyrights, especially (but not necessarily) with the purpose of > >a financial gain. I'm sure that your favourite dictionary will be able to > >clue you in. > > I concede that your definition is correct in an evolving language, but I > will personally avoid using it and encourage others to do the same. > Webster's of 1913 agrees with me. I don't see how that follows; it includes the definition "One who infringes the law of copyright, or publishes the work of an author without permission." > >Let's leave political correctness in the dustbin of history where it > properly > >belongs. > > I'm not arguing for political correctness. I find the social > over-regulation of speech abhorrent. And yet that's exactly what you're seeking to achieve. > I would rather not ask people to > modify their speech patterns. Unfortunately this fight is going to deal a > lot with image, and calling people evil nasty hacker PIRATE degenerates is > the sort of thing that won the DeCSS case for the MPAA. Do you really think it was the public image that won the case? > >If you want copyright infringement to become a noble affair, I suggest > >you look into the possibility of proudly using the word "pirate" - like > black > >people have done with "nigger" , or gay people with "gay". > > It worked for "gay" which was a happy term to begin with, but it did not > work for "nigger" which -- here in North Carolina -- I am socially forbidden > from saying in public. (It actually upsets people.) Yes, but it's common to use the word among black people when speaking to each other (I won't go into the hypocricy of trying to ban it elsewhere and at the same time condoning this usage). > I'm not championing > the cause of piracy, I'm merely trying to keep it linguistically separate > from raping and pillaging which often require stronger laws and penalties. But it *is* already separate. That's how language works. > >> Drafters of copyright law coined the term piracy in order to help justify > >> the need for laws like the DMCA. > > >Get a historical dictionary, or a clue, or both. I apologise; that was rude of me. > I was not referring to US law. Historically, the term was used to make > infringing printers look bad to people who otherwise wouldn't care. I do > not have a historical dictionary (until they put the Oxford English online > in its entirety) I have the OED in a dead tree version. If you need citations of "pirate" in that sense from 17-19th centuries, I can type them in for you. -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton From david at lupercalia.net Thu Jul 26 14:18:35 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010726074328.009eb330@popmail.i-2000.com>; from mscottaline@yahoo.com on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 07:45:42AM -0400 References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010725222510.03691c40@ideasuite.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010726074328.009eb330@popmail.i-2000.com> Message-ID: <20010726171835.E26141@lupercalia.net> On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 07:45:42AM -0400, Michael Scottaline wrote: > At 08:22 AM 7/26/01 -0400, Peter wrote: > >But you forgot one importent thing. Dmitry didn't sell the software by > >himself. It was the Company (ElcomSoft) for which he is working. This is > >a different picture. The DoJ has to go after the Company and not after > >one Employee. From this point of view, Dmitry's arrest has no legal > >background because he personaly did not violate the DMCA law other then > >just speaking about the software. And this should be protected by the > >right of free speach. > >Peter > > Hmmm..., but what about the CD's he distributed at the conference?? Even > though they contained "limited" editions of the legally questionable > software, might that not violate the regrettable law? Even distributing > for "free" constitutes "sale", at least as far as drug distribution goes. > Mike Read the arrest warrant. He is not charged with distributing CDs. -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ From jays at panix.com Thu Jul 26 14:23:38 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: FW: [nylug-talk] Lobby Group for Fair USe, DMCA (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:18:33 -0400 From: Vagn Scott To: Matthew Van Horn Cc: lo , nylug-talk@nylug.org Subject: Re: FW: [nylug-talk] Lobby Group for Fair USe, DMCA Matthew Van Horn wrote: > YRTIMD EERF > ACMD EHT ESOPPO > > (other content could work too) > > Then when people decrypt it for access to the message (not to copy it or > mass distribute it). Point out that this is what the DMCA stopes. > > If they start writing it down in reverse order in order to read it - point > out that this is what the software in this case did. > > If they tell someone else how to read it - point out that this is what he > "did wrong" at Def Con. > > Obviously these would'nt work without someone there when they tried to > read it to point all of this out. This is a job for the stunt team: ================================================== A. *I* have a secret message! (holds up a sign "!yrtimD EERF") B&C (Snicker) A. (parades around) I have a secret message. You have to PAY to read it. A. (takes a pass past the front row) My secret message! And a very interesting read! A $5000 value, but today you can read it for only $4999.95! And we're so sure you will never want to read a book again, we will even help you burn them! B. Hey, that's some secret -- Free Dmitry! A. (insanely) You are not allowed to decrypt this message! C. What's the big secret? A. (terrified) Don't tell him! (Angry) Don't you tell him! B. (cheerful) It says "Free Dmitry!". It's written Backwards! A. AHHHHH! I'm going broke! That's $5000 you owe me. $5000 Dollars! C. Oh yeah! It's written backwards! It says "Free Dmitry!" A. (Outraged) You told him! You told him! You told him! I'm calling the police! Police! Police! Police! I'm being ROBBED! B&C (Snicker) P. Right, who called me! A. They took my IP! P. Right. You two, give it back. B&C (show their empty hands, pull out their pockets, nothing there either.) P. Right, whats this all about then? A. (points to sign) They stole my IP! P. (squints, and says slowly) F-R-E-E D-m-i-t-r-y-!, "FREE Dmitry!" Who's Dmitry? A. AHHHH! You're not allowed to read it! It's MINE It's MINE It's MINE! P. What's yours? A. My e-book! You read my e-book! (points at P.) You owe me $5000! (points at B.) You owe me $5000! (points at C.) You owe me $5000! That's $15,000! Now pay up! (holds out his hand) B&C (dismisively) Your nuts! No way! I'll read what I want! I know my rights! A. (to P) You look it up. You look it up. P. (fishes a small book out of his pocket and flips through it.) A. (watches P's every move closely) It's under D. DMCA. Do you see it? Do you see it? P. (starts reading somthing.) A. You found it didn't you. I told you. I told you. P. (to B & C) He's right, I have to take you in. Five years and $500,000 fine. B&C But you read it too! Don;t you have to arrest yourself? P. (deflates) Oh. Oh. Yes, Yes. It's the law. there is nothing we can do. (P pokes B C with his stick, and they shuffle off) A. (looks after them, sees them leave. breathes a sigh of relief. Turns to audience) Now that's justice. what a great country! A. Begins again exactly as before) A. *I* have a secret message! (holds up a sign "!yrtimD EERF") A. (parades around) I have a secret message. You have to PAY to read it. A. (takes a pass past the front row) My secret message! And a very interesting read! A $5000 value, but today you can read it for only $4999.95! And we're so sure you will never want to read a book again, we will even help you burn them! --------------- Followed by a short speech on the history and dangers of the DMCA. This one can actually pingpong between two sites: A walks away and the speech starts. But A walks into the identical routine at the other end of the block. -- _~|__ >@ (vagn( / \`-ooooooooo-'/ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From david at lupercalia.net Thu Jul 26 14:23:43 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Next protest? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010726083938.00b201b8@earthlink.net>; from jstyre@jstyre.com on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 09:00:07AM -0700 References: <20010726011800.C2642@cluebot.com> <89B3700F1199D411A0CB00508BEE227E569F99@ryentes1.mobius.com> <0107252026510B.19049@bilbo.blorch.org> <01072523393400.23950@lorien> <20010726011800.C2642@cluebot.com> <20010726090206.E21822@lupercalia.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010726083938.00b201b8@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20010726172343.F26141@lupercalia.net> On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 09:00:07AM -0700, James S. Tyre wrote: > Trying to coincide with the first day of the technical sessions of USENIX > Security (Aug. 15) may create more problems than it solves. We'll be discussing this at our local meeting tonight, which I have to leave for in 20 minutes. ;-) I agree. I would like to have a presence at the entire conference if possible, to make sure everyone knows about it, and then a demonstration later in the week. To help list traffic, please direct logistical concerns about USENIX and events to take place during USENIX to the free-dmitry-dc list: http://www.lupercalia.net/mailman/listinfo/free-dmitry-dc -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ From jono at microshaft.org Thu Jul 26 14:28:32 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Library "radicals" targeted in latest copyright battles Message-ID: <20010726142832.F24911@networkcommand.com> These people must be crazy: http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-201-6545588-0.html "They've [Libraries] got their radical factions, like the Ruby Ridge or Waco types, "who want to share all content for free, said Judith Platt, a spokeswoman for the Association of American Publishers. They are called "Public Libraries" for a reason. http://www.anti-dmca.org From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 26 14:32:36 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Oink? In-Reply-To: ; from adunston@jetstream.com on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 02:12:42PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010726143236.X722@zork.net> Begin Adrian Dunston quotation: > Interesting Historical Note: > http://www.flipside.org/vol3/mar00/00mr29b.htm > Back in 1955, the CIA (United States Central Intelligence Agency) > actually bought the rights to make the animated film Animal Farm (as > well as a few others) in order to make sure the film was "on > message". I love my government. Yep. The book ends with the standard "a pox on both your houses" message, showing that there was no difference between the Communist dictators and the kind they freed the people from. The CIA made it more of a "Capitalism good, communism bad!" message. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From barryb at proaxis.com Thu Jul 26 14:47:56 2001 From: barryb at proaxis.com (Bill Barry) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: FW: [nylug-talk] Lobby Group for Fair USe, DMCA (fwd) In-Reply-To: ; from jays@panix.com on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 05:23:38PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010726144756.A7546@proaxis.com> I used this sort of idea on a poster at the Portland Oregon Protest. The poster was Sentence This Decipher To Illegal Is It. Copyright (C) 2001 Bill Barry Several people watching the protest understood the sign and got them meaning. I also had a flyer which said SENTENCE THIS DECIPHER TO ILLEGAL IS IT Copyright (C) 2001 by Bill Barry Notice! The above sentence is protected by the Digital Millenium Copyright Act which states in part: No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service,... primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. Any person who violates this willfully and for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain-- (1) shall be fined not more than $500,000 or imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both, for the first offense; and (2) shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned for not more than 10 years, or both, for any subsequent offense. If you wish to legally read the above sentence please donate $3000 to the Electronic Frontier Foundation (www.eff.org) and I will send you the appropriate decryption software. Bill Barry Copyright Holder barryb@proaxis.com On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 05:23:38PM -0400, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:18:33 -0400 > From: Vagn Scott > To: Matthew Van Horn > Cc: lo , nylug-talk@nylug.org > Subject: Re: FW: [nylug-talk] Lobby Group for Fair USe, DMCA > > Matthew Van Horn wrote: > > > YRTIMD EERF > > ACMD EHT ESOPPO > > > > (other content could work too) > > > > Then when people decrypt it for access to the message (not to copy it or > > mass distribute it). Point out that this is what the DMCA stopes. > > > > If they start writing it down in reverse order in order to read it - point > > out that this is what the software in this case did. > > > > If they tell someone else how to read it - point out that this is what he > > "did wrong" at Def Con. > > > > Obviously these would'nt work without someone there when they tried to > > read it to point all of this out. > > This is a job for the stunt team: > > ================================================== > > A. *I* have a secret message! (holds up a sign "!yrtimD EERF") > > B&C (Snicker) > > A. (parades around) I have a secret message. You have to PAY to read it. > > A. (takes a pass past the front row) My secret message! > And a very interesting read! A $5000 value, but today > you can read it for only $4999.95! And we're so sure > you will never want to read a book again, we will even > help you burn them! > > B. Hey, that's some secret -- Free Dmitry! > > A. (insanely) You are not allowed to decrypt this message! > > C. What's the big secret? > > A. (terrified) Don't tell him! (Angry) Don't you tell him! > > B. (cheerful) It says "Free Dmitry!". It's written Backwards! > > A. AHHHHH! I'm going broke! That's $5000 you owe me. $5000 Dollars! > > C. Oh yeah! It's written backwards! It says "Free Dmitry!" > > A. (Outraged) You told him! You told him! > You told him! I'm calling the police! > Police! Police! Police! I'm being ROBBED! > > B&C (Snicker) > > P. Right, who called me! > > A. They took my IP! > > P. Right. You two, give it back. > > B&C (show their empty hands, pull out their pockets, > nothing there either.) > > P. Right, whats this all about then? > > A. (points to sign) They stole my IP! > > P. (squints, and says slowly) F-R-E-E D-m-i-t-r-y-!, "FREE Dmitry!" > Who's Dmitry? > > A. AHHHH! You're not allowed to read it! It's MINE It's MINE It's MINE! > > P. What's yours? > > A. My e-book! You read my e-book! > (points at P.) You owe me $5000! > (points at B.) You owe me $5000! > (points at C.) You owe me $5000! > That's $15,000! Now pay up! (holds out his hand) > > B&C (dismisively) Your nuts! No way! I'll read what I want! > I know my rights! > > A. (to P) You look it up. You look it up. > > P. (fishes a small book out of his pocket and flips through it.) > > A. (watches P's every move closely) It's under D. DMCA. > Do you see it? Do you see it? > > P. (starts reading somthing.) > > A. You found it didn't you. I told you. I told you. > > P. (to B & C) He's right, I have to take you in. > Five years and $500,000 fine. > > B&C But you read it too! Don;t you have to arrest yourself? > > P. (deflates) Oh. Oh. Yes, Yes. It's the law. there is nothing > we can do. > > (P pokes B C with his stick, and they shuffle off) > > A. (looks after them, sees them leave. breathes a sigh of relief. > Turns to audience) Now that's justice. what a great country! > > A. Begins again exactly as before) > > A. *I* have a secret message! (holds up a sign "!yrtimD EERF") > > A. (parades around) I have a secret message. You have to PAY to read it. > > A. (takes a pass past the front row) My secret message! > And a very interesting read! A $5000 value, but today > you can read it for only $4999.95! And we're so sure > you will never want to read a book again, we will even > help you burn them! > > --------------- > > Followed by a short speech on the history and dangers of the DMCA. > > This one can actually pingpong between two sites: > > A walks away and the speech starts. > > But A walks into the identical routine at the other end of the block. > > > -- > _~|__ > >@ (vagn( / > \`-ooooooooo-'/ > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From nick at zork.net Thu Jul 26 14:50:35 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Using PDF Message-ID: <20010726145035.Z722@zork.net> So, here's a very nice writeup on the issues surrounding PDF. I for one use xpdf, which does not come from Adobe, is Free Software, and which does not implement copy restriction methods. I found it amusing that people on here were apologising for putting up PDFs, even though they were alongside *extremely* proprietary Word "doc" files. There are issues surrounding PDF 1.4, which is best left to someone like Raph Levien to explain. Most of the patents surround the color management routines, and are based on Heavy Math. ----- Forwarded message from Rick Moen ----- As I mentioned, I'm mostly keeping my mouth shut and concentrating on learning, in an area where I'm woefully lacking.[1] Apologies for length: Feel welcome to skip this if you don't have time. > PDF would work except that it, too, is proprietary -- and we are *not* > happy with ADOBE this week. The symbolism would indeed be unfortunate. The question of what makes a format proprietary is an interesting one: My understanding is that Adobe pretty much cut itself off, early on, from legal bullying[2] against PDF-compatible software, and hasn't done the Microsoft trick of keeping it be a moving target and poorly documented. PDF format (v. 1.3 = current) is well-documented, and (I'm pretty sure that) Adobe long ago committed to make it interoperable with anyone else's implementations. In its PDF technical reference[3], Adobe says: ...[Adobe] owns the copyright for the particular data structures and operators and the written specification constituting the interchange format called the Portable Document Format. Thus, these elements of the Portable Document Format may not be copied without Adobe's permission. Adobe will enforce its copyright. Adobe's intention is to maintain the integrity of the Portable Document Format standard. This enables the publicto distinguish between the Portable Document Format and other interchange formats for electronic documents. However, Adobe desires to promote the use of the Portable Document Format for information interchange among diverse products and application. Accordingly, Adobe gives copyright permission to anyone to: o Prepare files whose content conforms to the Portable Document Format. o Write drivers and applications that produce output represented in the Portable Document Format. o Write software that accepts input in the form of the Portable Document Format and displays, prints, or otherwise interprets the contents. o Copy Adobe's copyrighted list of data structures and operators, as well as the example code and PostScript language function definitions in the written specification, to the extent necessary to use the Portable Document Format for the purposes above. The only condition of such copyright permission is that anyone who uses the copyrighted list of data structures and operators in this way must include an appropriate copyright notice. This limited right [...] nor does it include the right to use any Adobe patents (except as may be permitted by an official Adobe Patent Clarification Notice). The copyright song-and-dance is big of them, but is really a lot of hooey, from the point of view of open-source developers. The above means only "If you're a really lazy coder, and can't figure out how to write your own compatible data structures, you can copy ours and not have to worry about being sued, as long as you credit us." Patents, on the other hand, are a bigger issue, but this is where Adobe says something meaningful. Patent Clarification Notice Adobe has a number of patents. [...] Adobe desires to promote the use of PDF for information interchange among diverse products and applications. Accordingly, the following patents are licensed on a royalty-free, non-exclusive basis for the term of each patent and for the sole purpose of developing software that produces, consumes, and interprets PDF files that are compliant with the Specification: U.S. Patent Numbers: 5,634,064 5,737,599 5,781,785 5,819,301 6,028,583 In addition, the following patent is licensed on a royalty-free, non-exclusive basis for its term and for the sole purpose of developing software that produces PDF files that are compliant with the Specification (specifically excluding, however, software that consumes and/or interprets PDF files): U.S. Patent Number: 5,860,074 The long and short of that is that PDF is indeed Adobe-captive in a sense until those patents expire -- but that Adobe freely licenses all its patents for interoperablity purposes. (The final patent cited doesn't seem to be an obstacle for applications reading in PDF input: It covers a method for overlaying text over another layer.) So, that's why we can have the GIMP, LaTeX, xpdf, pdfLaTeX, Kontour (previously "Killustrator"), Ghostscript, etc. all able to handle PDFs. Incidentally, also relevant to our in-person discussion: I just noticed on-line that TIFF can be compressed with _either_ LZW compression or CCITT Fax 4 compression, suitable for bitonal text documents. [1] Interesting comments on graphics formats at: http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/pictel/mddp309.htm (Like Amy, somebody there's a real expert.) [2] Of which the canonical example was as follows: Open-source coder Avery Lee announced in June 2000 on his now-vanished Geocities site for his Linux program "VirtualDub": Today I received a polite phone call from a fellow at Microsoft who works in the Windows Media Group. He informed me that Microsoft has intellectual property rights on the ASF format and told me that, although I had reverse engineered it, the implementation was still illegal since it infringed on Microsoft patents. I have asked for the specific patent numbers, since I find patenting a file format a bit strange. At his request, and much to my own sadness, I have removed support for ASF in VirtualDub 1.3d, since I cannot risk a legal confrontation. That turned out to be US Patent #6,041,345. It's highly unlikely that an obviously incompetently-awarded patent of a data format would survive legal challenge, but Lee couldn't afford the cost of calling Microsoft's bluff. Since then, a number of ASF open-source programs have emerged despite Microsoft's threat -- some using mirrored copies of Lee's code. [3] Adobe's disclosure documents to developers about PDF (including the PDF Reference document and the Patent Clarification Notice: http://partners.adobe.com/asn/developer/technotes/acrobatpdf.html -- Rick M. ----- End forwarded message ----- -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From jay at cs.uoregon.edu Thu Jul 26 14:55:30 2001 From: jay at cs.uoregon.edu (Jay Schneider) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattle Photojournal Page References: <20010725132529.B411@mso.oz.net><00e001c11555$0a8b7680$7f603c04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> <20010725160639.E2528@mso.oz.net><20010725161550.R16094@zork.net> <20010726091030.D12981@mso.oz.net><20010726101413.A14030@mso.oz.net> Message-ID: <00d001c1161d$b0d38780$7f603c04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> Hi All, Just thought I'd let y'all know that in the two days since I put up the photojournal of the Seattle picninc/protest/rally it's had over 60,000 hits! http://protest.techwood.net -Jay Schneider From snair at utstar.com Thu Jul 26 15:06:36 2001 From: snair at utstar.com (Sreeni R. Nair) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fwd:Reply from ACM : Dmitry Sklyarov, AAP, and ACM Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010726175917.02eee5c0@mail.utstar.com> I got the following reply from ACM to my query regarding AAP's press statement. I feel proud and happy that I am an ACM member. >Dear Sreeni, > >Thank you for your email. > >ACM has been very concerned the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. During >consideration of H.R. 2281 - the DMCA - by the U.S. Congress in 1997, ACM >joined several other leading scientific professional societies in warning >that the anti-circumvention provisions of H.R.2281 could have substantial >negative impacts on the conduct of basic research. By regulating >technologies rather than infringing behavior, we further cautioned that >the progress of research in cryptography and other computer security areas >could be significantly hindered by such legislation. Although Congress >amended the legislation to include limited exceptions on circumvention for >encryption research, we pointed-out that the majority of computer security >research does not involve encryption. In summary, ACM recommended that >the broad anti-circumvention provisions of the legislation be revised to >restrict only circumvention related to infringement. Unfortunately, our >concerns with the anti-circumvention sections were not satisfactorily >addressed as Congress enacted the DMCA into law on October 28, 1998. > >In February of 2000, ACM submitted official comments during the U.S. >Copyright Office's consideration of exemptions from the prohibition of >circumvention in the DMCA. In our submission, ACM urged that the DMCA's >criminal provisions apply to only those who circumvent technological >protection mechanisms with the intent to infringe. We recommended that the >anti-circumvention provisions of the DMCA be revised to ensure the freedom >of scientists to bypass copy protection schemes for fair use purposes, >arguing scientists must be legally permitted to circumvent access >technologies in order to recognize shortcomings in security systems. Once >again, ACM was disappointed when the U.S. government issued its rulemaking >on "Exemptions From Prohibition on Circumvention of Technological Measures >that Control Access to Copyrighted Works" last October, as it did little >to bolster the fair-use applications we were seeking. ACM's submission >can be found at our web site: http://www.acm.org/usacm/IP/dmca.exemption.htm > >Regarding the AAP's statements surrounding the arrest of a Russian >cryptographer for allegedly violating the anti-circumvention provisions of >the DMCA, the Public Policy Committee of the ACM has sent the following >letter to AAP: > >--------------------------- > >July 26, 2001 > >The Honorable Patricia S. Schroeder >President & CEO >Association of American Publishers >50 F Street, N.W., 4th Floor >Washington, D.C. 20001 > >Dear Ms. Schroeder: > >As you know, the Association for Computing Machinery (ACM) is a member of >the Association of American Publishers (AAP). As the Co-Chairs of the >U.S. Public Policy Committee of ACM, we are concerned by the APP statement >released on July 19, 2001, which hailed the U.S. Department of Justice's >recent arrest of a Russian cryptographer for allegedly violating the >anti-circumvention provisions of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act >(DMCA). We would like for the AAP to be aware that ACM has consistently >opposed the anti-circumvention provisions of the DMCA. In our view, the >overly-broad provisions impede the progress of research in cryptography >and other computer security areas by criminalizing technologies rather >than infringing behavior. > >ACM has been shifting its publication operations from paper-only to >electronic distribution and we understand the importance of reasonable >copyright protections. However, as an educational and scientific >computing society comprised of computing professionals from all areas of >industry, academia, and government, ACM supports the freedom of computer >scientists to engage in research and exchange ideas and information >fundamental to the progress of innovation. During consideration of the >DMCA by the U.S. Congress and the subsequent rulemaking process, ACM >recommended that the anti-circumvention provisions of the legislation be >revised to restrict only circumvention related to infringement. We >further pointed-out other flaws of the Act, including: > >* failure to permit circumvention for "fair-use" purposes is inconsistent >with the fundamentals of copyright law and deters individuals from >conducting bona fide forms of science and technology research that is >fundamental to innovation; > >* exempting encryption research from the anti-circumvention provisions is >too limited as the majority of computer security research does not involve >encryption; > >* permitting reverse engineering for the sole purpose of interoperability >may criminalize development of software engineering tools and technology >with other uses; and, > >* anti-circumvention exemptions that permit circumvention to obtain >authorized access to a work are meaningless if access mechanisms and tools >cannot be used to do so. > >Unfortunately, our concerns were not satisfactorily addressed as the DMCA >was enacted or as the implementation rules were promulgated. As a result, >scientists are increasingly finding themselves in a position where they >must consult attorneys to determine if their previously legitimate >research might be in violation of the DMCA. In some instances, the threat >of legal action under the DMCA has deterred scientists from publishing or >even publicly discussing their research. Certain foreign scientists and >international members of ACM have indicated they will not attend >conferences in the U.S. while the law is in force for fear of >reprisal. Sadly, we believe the anti-circumvention provisions of the DMCA >have proven to have a real chilling effect on U.S. scientific and research >enterprise. > >While we recognize that the AAP works to protect the interests of book and >journal publishers by advocating strong copyright protection in digital >environments, we urge you to recognize the distinction between >circumvention for the purpose of obtaining unauthorized access to a work >and circumvention for the purpose of making a non-infringing use of a >work. Absent some clear criminal intent, scientists should not be >penalized for conducting research that is crucial to developing and >testing copyright protection systems. > >In light of your recent release indicating support for the >anti-circumvention provisions of the DMCA, we respectfully inquire if the >AAP shares the concerns that ACM and other professional societies have >expressed regarding the Act's chilling effect on research and scientific >freedom? > >We look forward to your reply. Please contact Jeff Grove, Director of the >ACM Public Policy Office at (202) 659-9711, if you have any questions or >wish to discuss our concerns. > >Sincerely, > >Barbara Simons, Ph.D. >Eugene H. Spafford, Ph.D. > >Co-Chairs >U.S. ACM Public Policy Committee (USACM) >Association for Computing Machinery > >------------------------- > >ACM will continue to work in support of the rights of computer >professionals to engage in critical research and to exchange ideas and >information fundamental to innovation. There is still much to do. > >Regards, >John White >ACM CEO > >(Sent to you by Cynthia Ryan, Manager of the Member Services Department, >for John White.) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sreeni R. Nair [mailto:snair@utstar.com] > > > Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 8:39 PM > > To: acmhelp@acm.org > > Subject: Dmitry Sklyarov, AAP, and ACM > > > > > > As you may already be aware of, a Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov > was unfairly arrested by the FBI who used the provisions of the > abominable DMCA for the purpose. > > As my understanding goes ACM has always been against DMCA > (http://www.acm.org/usacm/copyright/DMCA-release.html). But yesterday, > there was a press release from the Association of American Publishers > (http://www.publishers.org/home/press/index.htm> ) that hailed the FBI > action. As a current ACM member, it disturbed me deeply to find ACM as > one of the member organizations of AAP. I would like to know whether ACM > intends to condone the stance taken by AAP. Since the above stance is > contrary to everything that I (and a lot of like-minded people) take ACM > to stand for, I urge ACM to issue a p> ress statement to distance itself > from the AAP> '> s position. From jono at microshaft.org Thu Jul 26 15:15:15 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: hacker copyrights was [RE: telnetd exploit code]] Message-ID: <20010726151514.N24911@networkcommand.com> From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Thu Jul 26 15:15:40 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] URGENT!!!!! executive needed References: Message-ID: <3B60968C.6FAA4C16@sheffield.ac.uk> Guys, it is really urgent!! I know what I'm asking for, please let's not discuss this. I've spoken to one of Dmitry's lawyers, he knows EXACTLY HOW AND WHEN it will be possible to use this executive. Dmitry's got a HIGH PROFESSIONAL IMMIGRATION LAWYER. He knows immigration laws probably better then you (sorry for being abrupt) JUST FIND ME ONE!!!!!! If you'll find anyone who'll say that he wants to employ Dmitry, LET HIM CONTACT ME DIRECTLY!!!! Ideally this executive should be local, i.e. from SF or San Jose or and least from California. If you'll get one or at least someone who will know such executive let me know asap. my mobile (UK) +44 07966 140794 my office +44 114 222 7863 Please mind +8 hours difference. Or send me his email, phone, fax THIS IS URGENT!!!!!!!! anton >>Is there anyone in the list who knows a local >>executive in SF of San Jose? >>Can this executive employ Dmitry? >>This would really help to release him on bail. DB> US Employment laws would forbid it. To get an "employable visa", he'd DB> have to leave the country first, get the prospective employer to DB> apply for the visa, then return, etc. From schoen at loyalty.org Thu Jul 26 15:21:22 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] URGENT!!!!! executive needed In-Reply-To: <3B60968C.6FAA4C16@sheffield.ac.uk>; from a.chterenlikht@sheffield.ac.uk on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 11:15:40PM +0100 References: <3B60968C.6FAA4C16@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20010726152122.N14917@zork.net> Anton Chterenlikht writes: > Dmitry's got a HIGH PROFESSIONAL IMMIGRATION > LAWYER. He knows immigration laws probably > better then you (sorry for being abrupt) > > JUST FIND ME ONE!!!!!! Is this a lawyer _who is currently representing Dmitry Sklyarov_? That's important. -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From vadim at xcf.berkeley.edu Thu Jul 26 15:20:26 2001 From: vadim at xcf.berkeley.edu (Vadim Kogan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sunday Sign-Making Session in Berkeley Message-ID: <20010726152026.D32630@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> There will be a Sign-Making Session in Berkeley on Sunday, July 29th. So, Date: Sunday, July 29, 2001 Time: 1PM - 9PM (and over if needed) Note: If a lot of people cannot make it by 1PM, we might consider starting later. Location: 430-438 Soda Hall (Wozniak Lounge) UC Berkeley Campus Soda Hall is a 3-4 story green building on Hearst and Le Roy, on the north side of campus. It is really a 7 story building, but some of the floors are underground. Here's a little ascii art: | +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +---+ | / / | +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +---+ | / Y / | | | | | | | | | | | | | | / O / | +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +---+ | / R / | +----+ +--S O D A H A L L +----+ +---+ | 4th FLOOR / / Some | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ENTRANCE / E / stupid | +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +---+ | <=== / L / construction 3rd | +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ ------------------ / / floor | | | | | | ---------------- ent.--> | +--- ------------- -------------- HEARST ST. You should go to the 4TH FLOOR ENTRANCE and see the following picture: | | | | | | | +---+ +--+ 4th floor | z | _ Wozniak Lounge | | | | | entrance | o/| | / | +---+ +--+ ____________ |w/||/<-_________________ | +---+ +--+ | _______ | | ||/ /__________________ | | | | | | | _|_ || | |/<*| | +---+ +--+ | |___|___|| | / / | |____________|/ \|______|/ / |___________________ _o_ | YOU -> | --->------>----+ / \ L E R O Y A V E. You do NOT attempt to enter Soda Hall, but rather go around it on the right side to the patio, where you will see a glass door, which most likely will be open. The people inside are us. We will also post signs in various places to make it easier to find us. The following web pages of CS Department shows a lot of information about the directions to UC Berkeley and such, so I shall just give you a link to that. http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Campus/Directions/#soda Vadim. P.S. I'm no ascii artist, so don't flame me. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010726/fedecab1/attachment.pgp From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 26 15:23:53 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Flyer, Flyer, Pants on Fire Message-ID: <877kwvgwhy.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> We had a small group today out in the Civic Center of San Francisco passing out copies of Tabinda's excellent flyer as well as a derivative work B-) which contained the details on Monday's SF protest. We gave out hundreds of copies of the flyer, mostly around the government center. Frankly, there's really just one desk that I want the flyer to end up on... Hopefully our message was heard. We are _legion_! More opportunities to pamphleteer this afternoon and tomorrow morning at commute hours. I'll be out tomorrow, see everyone there. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From jonathanjo at mindspring.com Thu Jul 26 15:24:57 2001 From: jonathanjo at mindspring.com (Jonathan Watterson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Carolinas? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: How are you gentlemen. Is any protesting going on in the Carolinas? -- Jonathan Watterson jonathanjo@mindspring.com http://jonathanjo.home.mindspring.com/ AIM: hrairelil Free Dmitry! http://www.freesklyarov.org/ From nbhs2 at i-2000.com Thu Jul 26 15:37:49 2001 From: nbhs2 at i-2000.com (Michael Scottaline) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Using PDF In-Reply-To: <20010726145035.Z722@zork.net> References: <20010726145035.Z722@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010726183749.3f602f30.nbhs2@i-2000.com> On Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:50:35 -0700 Nick Moffitt insightfully noted: > So, here's a very nice writeup on the issues surrounding PDF. I for > one use xpdf, which does not come from Adobe, is Free Software, and > which does not implement copy restriction methods. > > I found it amusing that people on here were apologising for putting up > PDFs, even though they were alongside *extremely* proprietary Word > "doc" files. =========================== Or..., are using an M$ OS and apps [Outlook, etc.] Is there anything in the world more proprietary than Windows??? Mike -- "Many loads of beer were brought. What disorder, whoring, fighting, killing, and dreadful idolatry took place there." Baltasar Rusow, Estonia, mid 16th Century From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 26 15:36:49 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Carolinas? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87y9pbfhby.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JW" == Jonathan Watterson writes: JW> How are you gentlemen. Is any protesting going on in the JW> Carolinas? I dunno. Is it? B-) If not, how about it? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From akatalov at elcomsoft.com Thu Jul 26 15:56:42 2001 From: akatalov at elcomsoft.com (Alex Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] URGENT!!!!! executive needed In-Reply-To: <20010726152122.N14917@zork.net> References: <3B60968C.6FAA4C16@sheffield.ac.uk> <20010726152122.N14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <1565607064.20010726155642@elcomsoft.com> Dear Seth, SDS> Is this a lawyer _who is currently representing Dmitry Sklyarov_? SDS> That's important. I can say only that one of the largest lawyers company in USA is working with this case starting from Monday. It has offices in 20 cities in USA and some more in Europe and ~300 lawyers are working there. I sign a contract with them to defence Dmitry at last Friday, and at this Wednesday thay visit Dmitry in Las Vegas and got his signature on the contract too. The name of this company and lead counsel will be discloused at the next Monday, so sorry, but I can't give you more information! -- Best regards, Alex Katalov mailto:akatalov@elcomsoft.com ElcomSoft Co.Ltd. From jono at microshaft.org Thu Jul 26 15:59:25 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boy, 14, arrested for music piracy Message-ID: <20010726155925.A26098@networkcommand.com> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/asia-pacific/newsid_1333000/1333378.stm The authorities in Hong Kong have arrested a 14-year-old boy for allegedly allowing people to download pirated pop songs free of charge on the Internet. From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Thu Jul 26 15:59:40 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] MATERIALS for sign party [Re: [Free-sklyarov-announce] Sunday Sign-Making Session in Berkeley] In-Reply-To: <20010726152026.D32630@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: Since Vadim forgot to mention this, I'd like to remind people to BRING YOUR OWN MATERIALS if you can. Of course materials get passed around once we're there, but last time there was certainly no excess of materials (as a matter of fact, Ryan ended up doing an extra late-night run to K-Mart around 11pm...) Specifically, the following were found useful last time (all those present were new to the signmaking business, so this is a genuine first round of "lessons learned"): MATERIALS: - Posters -- white is most commonly used, but neon and black are also usable (bringing 4-6 is advisable since we should try to make at least 1.5-2 full signs per person present so as to be able to provide more signs to those who just show up at the protest) - Large cardboard boxes (a la "backbone" of a sign; 2-3 poster-sized pieces should be enough, but excesses can also be used as sign handles) - Thick permanent markers. The thicker the better. Black is most useful, but a set of colored markers will also be useful. - Pencils/erasers - Spraypaint, especially white spraypaint if you get black posters (one can was enough for the whole group last time, but we may get better attendance this time); bringing gloves may also be well-advised if you want to use spraypaint - Stencils (the bigger the better; multiple sets can prove useful) - Tape (both wide packaging tape and scotch tape, preferably transparent) - Wooden stakes (my impression is that the optimal cross-section size is about 2"x1", but I'm not sure; certainly don't get anything below 0.5" diameter or above 3" diameter) TOOLS: - Stapler/staplegun (especially with "long" staples) - Scissors (bigger=better) - Knife/other cutting tools (i wish i knew what that small precision cutter tool was called -- the one we used to make new stencils...) - Hammer/small nails (?) (not available last time; could be useful for attaching signs to poles) OTHER: - Most importantly, bring GOOD IDEAS for slogans! We have a list of stuff that we brainstormed up the last time, but first of all most of them have been used, and also quite a few are too adobocentric (which I hereby declare a valid word) On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Vadim Kogan wrote: > There will be a Sign-Making Session in Berkeley on Sunday, July 29th. So, > > Date: Sunday, July 29, 2001 > Time: 1PM - 9PM (and over if needed) > Note: If a lot of people cannot make it by 1PM, we might consider > starting later. > Location: 430-438 Soda Hall (Wozniak Lounge) > UC Berkeley Campus > > Soda Hall is a 3-4 story green building on Hearst and Le Roy, on the north side of > campus. It is really a 7 story building, but some of the floors are > underground. Here's a little ascii art: > > | +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +---+ | / / > | +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +---+ | / Y / > | | | | | | | | | | | | | | / O / > | +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +---+ | / R / > | +----+ +--S O D A H A L L +----+ +---+ | 4th FLOOR / / Some > | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ENTRANCE / E / stupid > | +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +---+ | <=== / L / construction > 3rd | +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ ------------------ / / > floor | | | | | | ---------------- > ent.--> | +--- ------------- > -------------- HEARST ST. > > You should go to the 4TH FLOOR ENTRANCE and see the following picture: > > | | | > | | | > | +---+ +--+ 4th floor | z | _ Wozniak Lounge > | | | | | entrance | o/| | / > | +---+ +--+ ____________ |w/||/<-_________________ > | +---+ +--+ | _______ | | ||/ /__________________ > | | | | | | | _|_ || | |/<*| > | +---+ +--+ | |___|___|| | / / | > |____________|/ \|______|/ / |___________________ > _o_ | > YOU -> | --->------>----+ > / \ > > L E R O Y A V E. > > You do NOT attempt to enter Soda Hall, but rather go around it on the right > side to the patio, where you will see a glass door, which most likely will > be open. The people inside are us. We will also post signs in various places > to make it easier to find us. > > The following web pages of CS Department shows a lot of information about > the directions to UC Berkeley and such, so I shall just give you a link to > that. > > http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Campus/Directions/#soda > > Vadim. > > P.S. I'm no ascii artist, so don't flame me. > -- -alexf From br00se at br00se.com Thu Jul 26 16:02:40 2001 From: br00se at br00se.com (Br00se) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Carolinas? In-Reply-To: <87y9pbfhby.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: >>>>> "JW" == Jonathan Watterson writes: JW> How are you gentlemen. Is any protesting going on in the JW> Carolinas? I dunno. Is it? B-) If not, how about it? ~Klepht Someone let me know if anyone pick of the ball in SC. I'd like to attend. From erc at pobox.com Mon Jul 23 09:46:46 2001 From: erc at pobox.com (Ed Carp) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] URGENT: needed, slashdot article! Message-ID: <200107231646.LAA12342@adsl-208-191-206-105.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net> Jim Thompson (jim.thompson@pobox.com) writes: > Oh, puhleeze. These guys will make sure they have a movie review > written up for every major flick that might interest geeks, but when > something truly newsworthy comes along their excuse for missing the boat > is "Because no one ELSE has written the story." ? Jeeze... and they > wonder why people laugh when they call themselves "journalists". Have you also noticed that a lot of the same people keep getting selected for their posts to be seen? Almost looks like /. waits until one of their "favorites" submits something before they'll post it. -- Ed Carp, N7EKG erc@pobox.com 214/986-5870 cell phone http://www.pobox.com/~erc I sometimes wonder if the American people deserve to be free - they seem so unwilling to fight to preserve the few freedoms they have left. From tabindak at best.com Thu Jul 26 16:48:19 2001 From: tabindak at best.com (Tabinda N. Khan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Using PDF In-Reply-To: <20010726145035.Z722@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 02:50:35PM -0700 References: <20010726145035.Z722@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010726164818.A17902@shell9.ba.best.com> Quoting Nick Moffitt: > I found it amusing that people on here were apologising for putting up > PDFs, even though they were alongside *extremely* proprietary Word > "doc" files. It depends on the purpose. I can't speak for anyone else, but my goal was not to avoid proprietary formats, it was to make it easy for people of varying technical abilities to modify flyers to suit their regional activities. The PDF tongue-in-cheek apology was because of the Adobe flavor (I felt the same way about the Postscript, but less so), not about the proprietary nature. I want a non-technical person who decides to hold a protest in their area to be able to easily modify the flyer and keep the same design--in the case of freeing Dmitry, I'm not willing to discriminate against people based on their ability--we need all the help we can get. So if a grocery clerk or a mechanic or someone who doesn't know Postscript from a movie script gets all fired up about this and wants to organize a demonstration and modify the flyer on their home PC using Word, more power to them. That's not to say that people in those professions don't know Postscript, but you get my drift. So: --HTML for those who want to use a browser and feel comfortable editing tags --Word for those who want to organize a protest and only know how to use Microsoft Office --Postscript for those who prefer that --PDF because I couldn't get the Postscript to print, didn't know if the problem was my printer or the Postscript, and due to short timeframe I didn't have time to troubleshoot. PDF would allow people to get the same look as Postscript using any PDF viewer. Again, I don't know why other people are apologizing, but I want to be clear my apology was not based on the proprietary nature of the documents I posted. That might be my usual stance, but not in the goal of getting Dmitry out of jail. I believe others have also put the proprietary nature of file formats and ElcomSoft's work to the side in order to pursue this goal. Tabinda -- From declan at well.com Thu Jul 26 16:50:29 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] pointless quip In-Reply-To: <20010726135533.W14917@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 01:55:33PM -0700 References: <20010726120033.K722@zork.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010726134636.00b1aa78@earthlink.net> <20010726135533.W14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010726195029.B8993@cluebot.com> I think Nick's idea is he won't "question" congresscritters who pass really bad laws for their "speech or debate," but for their votes. :) -Declan On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 01:55:33PM -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote: > James S. Tyre writes: > > > At 12:00 PM 7/26/2001 -0700, Nick Moffitt wrote: > > >There ought to be mandatory minimum prison sentences for the creation > > >or passing of bad law. > > > > You would, of course, have to amend the Constitution to do so, at least for > > federal lawmakers. > > I learned this fact from you, so you've got me trained to explain it > to other people. :-) > > They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of > the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance > at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and > returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either > House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place. > > U.S. Const., Art. I, Sec. 6 > > -- > Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested > Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull > down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with > http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From pmasloch at earthlink.net Thu Jul 26 17:14:07 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] URGENT!!!!! executive needed In-Reply-To: <1565607064.20010726155642@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: Why this secrets now??? Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org Dear Seth, SDS> Is this a lawyer _who is currently representing Dmitry Sklyarov_? SDS> That's important. I can say only that one of the largest lawyers company in USA is working with this case starting from Monday. It has offices in 20 cities in USA and some more in Europe and ~300 lawyers are working there. I sign a contract with them to defence Dmitry at last Friday, and at this Wednesday thay visit Dmitry in Las Vegas and got his signature on the contract too. The name of this company and lead counsel will be discloused at the next Monday, so sorry, but I can't give you more information! -- Best regards, Alex Katalov mailto:akatalov@elcomsoft.com ElcomSoft Co.Ltd. _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From ausage at ausage.com Thu Jul 26 17:15:59 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Abode Unlimited and the book box lock Message-ID: <01072620155900.05115@frankie> Abode Unlimited and the book box lock Chapter 1. Once upon a time there was a company called Abode Unlimited. Abode Unlimited had a very goody business make the quills and inks that all the scribes used to copy down books for the authors. Then someone invented the printing press and the scribe were afraid. What would happen if someone copied their books with a printing press. Books would become so plentiful and cheap that the scribes might have no more business. But Abode Unlimited was smart. They made a special box. You could put a books into the box and no one could take them out with out a special key. Abode Unlimited to the scribes, "When you sell a book, sell it through us and we will protect your book." Puzzled the scribes asked, "How will you do that?" Abode Unlimited replied, "Well first we will give everyone a box and bolt it to the floor of their house. When someone buys a book, we will take to their house and put it in their box. Every book will be locked into the box and attached by a chain so no one can take it way." The scribe then asked, "But how will they read the book?" This was were Abode Unlimited showed their wisdom, "Why we will give everyone a key to the box, but only if they promise never to left another read the book. Now every one will have to buy their own copy of your book." The scribe were amazed. This would be very good for business. "But what about those new libraries," they asked? "Don't work about the libraries," Abode Unlimited said. "They can have their own box, but they must rent the key. Every time they open the box they must give us money." The scribes thought that this was good, but we still uncertain, "What happens when someone moves their house?" "Why then we will take the box back and they will have to buy new books. After all, they have already read the old books so there is no hardship." "What if some else makes a key?" We have spoken to the king," said Abode Unlimited. "He has issued a new decree. Anyone who looks into a book box lock to see how it works, or who makes or gives away a key to the book box lock, or even who tells people how to make a key to the book box lock or how a book box lock works will be thrown into the deepest, darkest dungeon until the end of time." Now the scribes were very happy. "You will sell all our books said the scribes. You are very smart." "Yes," said Abode Unlimited. We call this our "Copy Protection System" for the "Abode Unlimited Manuscript Reader." "But it's not a reader," said one scribe, "it's just a box!" "Don't worry. The people won't know the difference." (c) Copyright 2001 Ausage. This story is protected by Double ROT-13 encryption. Permission to decrypt, read silently, read aloud, print, copy, post, email, broadcast, save, store, backup or delete is granted to everyone who supports the fair use of copyrighted works and the right of first sale. From roylo at sr2c.com Thu Jul 26 17:38:54 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. morning in San Jose References: <20010726093230.D21489@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <00d301c11634$83feaa20$0200a8c0@jwin> Thank you for your suggestions and I really learned alot from it. And yes I did plan this protest without much preparing, I really should have pick next Sat. instead which will give me a week ahead of time to plan it. But, I choice this Sat.of the following reasons 1.) Our Target has from adobe to DoJ (This Monday's Protest was to Adobe) 2.) Most people have to work on weekday and Church on Sunday 3.) The first trial is on next Monday As you can see the reason for it; You probability think I'm a moron for rushing things up and without consulting with other people's schedule. But, I did on what I thought was the best. And this Sat. seems like the best time for it. (I was going to a concert on Sat and had to give my concert tickets to someone else so I can do the protest) Anyway, since everyone is busy; I guess the protest will be off and I will go to the concert instead. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Moen" To: Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. morning in San Jose > begin roylo quotation: > > The ideal behind it was to be convenient for everybody. > > Great. Please consult BALE, in the future. That URL again: > http://linuxmafia.com/bale/ > > > Also, this might work out better. 'Cause you guys can announce the > > protest within those event. And people can take breaks and come join > > the protest for an hour or two. > > Nope. That doesn't work. Running the InstallFest is a rather intensive > activity: We're there from before 10 AM to well after 4 PM. Driving to > San Jose in the middle is not an option. > > > If you guys still think it is a bad ideal; We can always call it off. > > Your call. I assume you verified that a substantial number of people > will be able to be there with you, before making the announcement. > (Also, I hope you're aware that downtown San Jose is extremely dead on a > typical Saturday morning.) > > However, while we're at it, herewith, a few modest suggestions about > intelligent event logistics and publicity. (I'm for those, too.) > > 1. Have all details all in one place, on an event Web site. Lobbing off an > announcement to a mailing list is nice, but you need clear, easily > findable details on a Web site. Well in advance: Others will link > to it, and use it for material. Make sure the page has spokemen's > contact e-mail addresses and telephone numbers: Reporters will use those. > Example: Windows Refund Day -- http://linuxmafia.com/refund/ > 2. Make sure you include street address and cross-street. (And > day/date/time, obviously.) > 3. Include a street map, generated from Mapblast, Yahoo Maps, Mapquest, etc. > 4. Provide public transit information. (In the S.F. Bay Area, you can get > this from http://www.transitinfo.org/ .) > 5. Provide infomation on the parking situation. > 6. If possible, have people rendezvous at somewhere convenient nearby, > and walk to the site en-masse. It's more dramatic, and lets you > take care of organisational problems before reaching the target site. > 6. Have at least one person carry a cellular 'phone. Let other > organisers have the number. > 7. Have flyers. Have banners and signs. > > > If we want to call it off please let me know before Friday night, so I can > > tell others as well. > > 8. Make the best decisions you can, then do what you can with the > results. Don't waffle. > > I _suspect_ that you've hardly planned this at all, and need to do some > quick re-thinking. But you make up your own mind. I don't know you: > You may have this going just fine. > > -- > Cheers, "I used to be on the border of insanity. However, due > Rick Moen to pressing political concerns, I recently had to invade." > rick@linuxmafia.com -- Kurt Montandon, in r.a.sf.w.r-j > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 26 17:45:33 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. morning in San Jose In-Reply-To: <00d301c11634$83feaa20$0200a8c0@jwin> References: <20010726093230.D21489@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> <00d301c11634$83feaa20$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: <87itgfci8i.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "r" == roylo writes: r> Anyway, since everyone is busy; I guess the protest will be off r> and I will go to the concert instead. Do you _have_ anyone going? You've been spreading this info around for the last week -- I think you're kind of obliged to go at this point. I know it's tough, but you should try to make it happen. I'll go down and pass out flyers with you, if you want. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From roylo at sr2c.com Thu Jul 26 17:59:46 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. morning in San Jose References: <20010726093230.D21489@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com><00d301c11634$83feaa20$0200a8c0@jwin> <87itgfci8i.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <001301c11637$6dc4a220$0200a8c0@jwin> Thanks, got to tell you that I'm REALLY discouraged at this point. Got alot of people telling me that they are busy or have changed their mind. Plus I never got the reply back for the e-mails of Larry Augustin, Bob Young, Art F. Tyde. No one beside Alex Fabrikant and you has offered to help me out. It feels like no one cared, but you are right I'm kinda obliged at this point. How about tomorrow we met at front of San Jose State College? I will need to make more copies of the flyers I made first. so, How about meeting around 11:00am?? Please give me your cell phone number BTW my temp. web page for the protest is at http://www.sr2c.com/free.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Klepht" To: Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. morning in San Jose > >>>>> "r" == roylo writes: > > r> Anyway, since everyone is busy; I guess the protest will be off > r> and I will go to the concert instead. > > Do you _have_ anyone going? You've been spreading this info around for > the last week -- I think you're kind of obliged to go at this point. > > I know it's tough, but you should try to make it happen. I'll go down > and pass out flyers with you, if you want. > > ~Klepht > > -- > klepht@eleutheria.org > http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu Thu Jul 26 22:30:42 2001 From: junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu (Peter D. Junger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:55:57 PDT." <3B5FB0ED.7040701@kalifornia.com> Message-ID: <200107270530.f6R5Ugg06742@samsara.law.cwru.edu> Ben Ford writes: : Jon O . wrote: : : > : >I did hear that he was passing out copies of some software after : >the speech. This is UNCONFIRMED. : > : : It is confirmed now ;) : : I have a couple of them. He only had about 15 CDs to give out, but I : ended up with 2 somehow. Keep in mind, these are DEMO CDs and will only : decrypt the first 25 pages of an eBook. Please keep in mind that ``trafficking'' in technologies that can be used to circumvent technological protection measures is only a crimve if it is for commercial profit or personal financial gain. Giving away free copies of the software in the United States is not a crime under the terms of the circumvention provisions, even if it could subject one to civil liability. (There is a big question though as to who would have standing to sue in a civil action; Adobe clearly doesn't since they do not own the copyright in the texts that are ``protected'' by their encryption scheme.) -- Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH EMAIL: junger@samsara.law.cwru.edu URL: http://samsara.law.cwru.edu NOTE: junger@pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu no longer exists From kris at firstworld.net Thu Jul 26 18:35:17 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Backlash In-Reply-To: <20010726122208.G14917@zork.net> References: <4024789737.20010726202427@centras.lt> <4024789737.20010726202427@centras.lt> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010726182645.012a3a28@pop.firstworld.net> At 12:22 PM 7/26/2001 -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote: >What are the biggest harms from copyright today? It's not that people >have to pay for books and movies! As long as public libraries are >strong, it's not a big deal that you have to go pay $12 or $20 if you >want your own copy of something. Yes, certain prices have been >inflated, but the "having to pay for copies" isn't a terrible harm >to the public. Yes, I often think of the price differential between the cost of a book containing information in the public domain and the cost of an equivalent book containing information that is copyrighted as a corporate tax. Not as a tax charged by the government on corporations, but a tax imposed by corporations on the public. >The real harms are the erosion of protections for the public's side of >the copyright bargain -- the attacks on the fair use and first sale >doctrines, for example. The real harms are when copyright keeps works >out of print, even when somebody wants to buy them (and people like >Eric Eldred are prevented from reprinting them on-line). The real >harms are when copyright is used to withdraw and suppress a book >(because someone's heirs find it embarrassing). The real harms are >when copyright is used to prevent criticism and parody -- which >happens all the time, even though the law is supposed to protect >those uses. This is the true damage that copy protection brings. What is going to happen in 50, or 500 years from know when people try and use the knowledge that our generation has created. If is it all encrypted there is a damn good chance there won't be anything there for them to read. So much for our place in history and that of any generation that follows that cripples its media. Kris From roylo at sr2c.com Thu Jul 26 18:52:57 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Free Dmitry Sklyarov Message-ID: <007101c1163e$dc719820$0200a8c0@jwin> Please forward this message to the internal mailing list if you can thanks ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dmitry Sklyarov, a Russian programmer, who has been imprisoned after presenting a scientific paper at the DEF CON computer security conference. His talk covered the restriction mechanisms used to prevent people from reading electronic books. He was formally charged with distributing software that could be used to circumvent copy protection. Sklyarov was arrested under Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) by the FBI outside his hotel as he prepared to go to the airport. The Digital Millennium Copyright Act not only conflicts with people's constitutional right to free speech. it also prevents the publish of weak point of some "security" tools, and thus encourages snake oil, and deteriorates info security in the long term. It is ironic that a Russian national is being held without bail in the US for what is essentially a thought crime. Through the passage of the DMCA we have criminalized speech and scientific research about the structure of computer programs as well as other simple acts such as reading of books and other media. DMCA has conflicted the base ideal on what is country of founded on ?Freedom of Speech?. And now Dmitry Sklyarov, Russian is being held without bail in the US for it. Not only did it violate Constitutional Rights, it also violated Human Rights. Please join us on Saturday of this week 7-26-2001 and protest again it. The Protest is going to be hold at U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of California office in San Jose; At 10:00am this Sat. And the address is: 280 South First St., Rm. 371, San Jose 95113. Contact Info: roylo@sr2c.com Http://sr2c.com/free.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010726/2cd00b52/attachment.html From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 26 19:07:04 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Central Clearinghouse Message-ID: <87ae1razw7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Hey, folks: So, I think one of the key success factors for 7/23's organization was having a central list of all events. The original was hosted on eff.org, and I believe it was moved over to boycottadobe.com. It seems like the folk(s) doing freesklyarov.org are doing a _great_ job keeping that site up to date with events, but it'd be nice to make sure that we let people know _one_ clearinghouse for events and locations. So, two things I'd suggest: 1) An email alias ("calendar@freesklyarov.org"?) which can be CC'd for announcements, to make sure you all don't have to wade through loads of crap to get to the nuggets. 2) A single page with calendar info, which can be linked to from other Web sites ("Go to a protest in your town or village"). OK, that's my spiel. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Thu Jul 26 19:10:18 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DC Scoop? Message-ID: <8766cfazqt.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> What's the deal with DC? Is there really going to be an event during the Mueller confirmation hearings? We're all dying to know, and this page: http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ ...is woefully out of date! ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From pmasloch at earthlink.net Thu Jul 26 19:16:12 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DC Scoop? In-Reply-To: <8766cfazqt.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: We are working on a new and improved webpage :-))) Will be up probably tomorrow. About the other stuff, you have to ask David. I'm not sure if the meeting is still going on.... Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Klepht Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 10:10 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] DC Scoop? What's the deal with DC? Is there really going to be an event during the Mueller confirmation hearings? We're all dying to know, and this page: http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ ...is woefully out of date! ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From pmasloch at earthlink.net Thu Jul 26 19:18:45 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Central Clearinghouse In-Reply-To: <87ae1razw7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: yes, maybe links form the freesklyarov page to the local pages. But the local pages are already listed there. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Klepht Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 10:07 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Central Clearinghouse Hey, folks: So, I think one of the key success factors for 7/23's organization was having a central list of all events. The original was hosted on eff.org, and I believe it was moved over to boycottadobe.com. It seems like the folk(s) doing freesklyarov.org are doing a _great_ job keeping that site up to date with events, but it'd be nice to make sure that we let people know _one_ clearinghouse for events and locations. So, two things I'd suggest: 1) An email alias ("calendar@freesklyarov.org"?) which can be CC'd for announcements, to make sure you all don't have to wade through loads of crap to get to the nuggets. 2) A single page with calendar info, which can be linked to from other Web sites ("Go to a protest in your town or village"). OK, that's my spiel. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From kris at firstworld.net Thu Jul 26 19:38:26 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Flyers for leafletting In-Reply-To: <87wv4vfn0l.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> References: <20010726113538.C722@zork.net> <20010726080034.A7483@shell9.ba.best.com> <20010726103541.C16420@zork.net> <20010726111654.A7294@shell9.ba.best.com> <20010726113538.C722@zork.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010726193257.012c8470@pop.firstworld.net> At 01:34 PM 7/26/2001 -0700, Klepht wrote: >Good news: I have a ream of flyers that Kris brought today. > I missed getting this up this afternoon as I had numerous other commitments. I modified Tabinda's flyer to include notification of Monday's protest. use this one for your standard b&w copier http://www.pigdog.org/dmitry/free_dmitry_protest_july_30_black.pdf if you have a two color copier or better, then use this one as I think it looks better with the red border. http://www.pigdog.org/dmitry/free_dmitry_protest_july_30_red.pdf As I'm lazy I've only included pdf files. If you need another format contact me offlist and I'll do what I can. Kris From mickeym at mindspring.com Thu Jul 26 19:51:26 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (Mickey McGown) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? References: <200107270530.f6R5Ugg06742@samsara.law.cwru.edu> Message-ID: <3B60D72D.D3D228B6@mindspring.com> 2600 wasn't selling DeCSS, either mickeym. "Peter D. Junger" wrote: > Ben Ford writes: > > : Jon O . wrote: > : > : > > : >I did hear that he was passing out copies of some software after > : >the speech. This is UNCONFIRMED. > : > > : > : It is confirmed now ;) > : > : I have a couple of them. He only had about 15 CDs to give out, but I > : ended up with 2 somehow. Keep in mind, these are DEMO CDs and will only > : decrypt the first 25 pages of an eBook. > > Please keep in mind that ``trafficking'' in technologies that can be > used to circumvent technological protection measures is only a crimve if > it is for commercial profit or personal financial gain. Giving away free > copies of the software in the United States is not a crime under the > terms of the circumvention provisions, even if it could subject one to > civil liability. (There is a big question though as to who would have > standing to sue in a civil action; Adobe clearly doesn't since they > do not own the copyright in the texts that are ``protected'' by their > encryption scheme.) > > -- > Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH > EMAIL: junger@samsara.law.cwru.edu URL: http://samsara.law.cwru.edu > NOTE: junger@pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu no longer exists > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From tabindak at best.com Thu Jul 26 19:55:26 2001 From: tabindak at best.com (Tabinda N. Khan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Flyers for leafletting In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20010726193257.012c8470@pop.firstworld.net>; from kris@firstworld.net on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 07:38:26PM -0700 References: <20010726113538.C722@zork.net> <20010726080034.A7483@shell9.ba.best.com> <20010726103541.C16420@zork.net> <20010726111654.A7294@shell9.ba.best.com> <20010726113538.C722@zork.net> <87wv4vfn0l.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> <4.2.0.58.20010726193257.012c8470@pop.firstworld.net> Message-ID: <20010726195525.A3725@shell9.ba.best.com> Nice! I like it--the border adds a lot. I was going to modify the flyer over the weekend to add the march (if we needed it) and the results of Friday's EFF meeting. I also got permission from Rick Moen to use the political prisoner quote, which should actually be attributed to his wife Deirdre. Tabinda Quoting Kris: > At 01:34 PM 7/26/2001 -0700, Klepht wrote: > > >Good news: I have a ream of flyers that Kris brought today. > > > > I missed getting this up this afternoon as I had numerous other commitments. > > I modified Tabinda's flyer to include notification of Monday's protest. > > use this one for your standard b&w copier > > http://www.pigdog.org/dmitry/free_dmitry_protest_july_30_black.pdf > > if you have a two color copier or better, then use this one as I think it > looks better with the red border. > > http://www.pigdog.org/dmitry/free_dmitry_protest_july_30_red.pdf > > As I'm lazy I've only included pdf files. If you need another format > contact me offlist and I'll do what I can. > > Kris > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- From izel at sulam.com Thu Jul 26 20:02:14 2001 From: izel at sulam.com (Izel Sulam) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology Poll Message-ID: An effort is underfoot to standardize upon a counter-term which will combat the corporate-sanctioned, misleading term of "copy protected media". Our chosen counter-term must better describe the essence of cryptographically encapsulated media, and the undesirable consequences thereof, such as loss of fair use rights, pay-per-play schemes, loss of customer privacy, etc. I have prepared a quick poll consisting of suggestions for counter-terms. You can vote for as few or as many counter-terms as you like, but you can cast only a single combined vote from any IP address. This is intended to minimize attempts at ballot-stuffing. http://izel.sulam.com/antidmca/counter-terminology.html Thanks, - izel From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Thu Jul 26 20:15:09 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] freedmitry.{com,net,org} / freesklyarov.{com,net} Message-ID: Hi, After some discussion, a few of us have decided to ask you if it would be possible to point the domain names mentioned in the subject line to the current freesklyarov.org site. Our reasoning is as follows: While the format you have chosen on onethumb.com is excellent for announcements and discussion, slashdot style (natural use of the Slash interface of course, too =>), it would be best for our movement at large to have the "main" domain names point to a "portal" type site rather than a "discussion" type site, and freesklyarov.org, over the course of the past few days, has indeed become such a site. Rest assured that there will remain a VERY prominent link from freesklyarov.org's main page to the actual onethumb.com url of your Slash-driven free-sklyarov section, maximally visible in the "related sites" section. However, since we would like to forward people unfamiliar to our cause to a site with "introductory" information and a "first pointer" collection, it seems better for the domains themselves to point to the portal. TIA, -- Alex Fabrikant alexf@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu From branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net Thu Jul 26 20:26:08 2001 From: branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net (Branden Robinson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? In-Reply-To: <3B60D72D.D3D228B6@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20010726222608.A7826@deadbeast.net> On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:51:26PM -0400, Mickey McGown wrote: > 2600 wasn't selling DeCSS, either 2600 wasn't criminally prosecuted, but sued by plaintiffs in civil court. -- G. Branden Robinson | The only way to get rid of a temptation Debian GNU/Linux | is to yield to it. branden@deadbeast.net | -- Oscar Wilde http://www.deadbeast.net/~branden/ | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010726/179f7ee4/attachment.pgp From mickeym at mindspring.com Thu Jul 26 20:34:43 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (Mickey McGown) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? References: <20010726222608.A7826@deadbeast.net> Message-ID: <3B60E152.FE55B5B7@mindspring.com> Granted, but the commercial gain was stretched to mean financial gain, which was then applied as avoiding payment for a copyrighted work. It didn't sway the judge one bit that the software was a free download.. Branden Robinson wrote: > On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:51:26PM -0400, Mickey McGown wrote: > > 2600 wasn't selling DeCSS, either > > 2600 wasn't criminally prosecuted, but sued by plaintiffs in civil court. > > -- > G. Branden Robinson | The only way to get rid of a temptation > Debian GNU/Linux | is to yield to it. > branden@deadbeast.net | -- Oscar Wilde > http://www.deadbeast.net/~branden/ | > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature From kris at firstworld.net Thu Jul 26 20:45:38 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Flyers for leafletting In-Reply-To: <20010726195525.A3725@shell9.ba.best.com> References: <4.2.0.58.20010726193257.012c8470@pop.firstworld.net> <20010726113538.C722@zork.net> <20010726080034.A7483@shell9.ba.best.com> <20010726103541.C16420@zork.net> <20010726111654.A7294@shell9.ba.best.com> <20010726113538.C722@zork.net> <87wv4vfn0l.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> <4.2.0.58.20010726193257.012c8470@pop.firstworld.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010726204332.00a77448@pop.firstworld.net> At 07:55 PM 7/26/2001 -0700, Tabinda N. Khan wrote: >Nice! I like it--the border adds a lot. > >I was going to modify the flyer over the weekend to add >the march (if we needed it) and the results of Friday's EFF >meeting. I also got permission from Rick Moen to use the >political prisoner quote, which should actually be attributed >to his wife Deirdre. > I'm glad you like it. I'm happy to make any changes you request or turn the "original" over to you for updates. Kris From danny at spesh.com Thu Jul 26 21:09:50 2001 From: danny at spesh.com (Danny O'Brien) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Central Clearinghouse In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010726210950.C4100@spesh.com> On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:18:45PM -0400, Peter wrote: > yes, maybe links form the freesklyarov page to the local pages. > But the local pages are already listed there. > Peter > > Can second the request for a single page with calendar info? Speaking with my journalist hat on, previous format was ideal - it let press link directly to a "Find out where the protests are happening" page, and also gave some idea of just how much was going on. The current front page of freesklyarov.org is great as a detailed overview for regular visitors, but what you often need at the bottom of a news item or blog entry is a link straight into the nitty gritty. It's hard enough to encourage people to click through after ploughing through an article about Dmitry, but when you've snagged them, you really want them to find the protest info near them *immediately*. In summary, what he said. d. -- http://www.ntk.net/ From mark at blorch.org Thu Jul 26 21:15:12 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] LOS ANGELES area--please join us! In-Reply-To: <20010726210950.C4100@spesh.com> References: <20010726210950.C4100@spesh.com> Message-ID: <01072621151205.00995@bilbo.blorch.org> If you are in the LA area, we have a mail list you can sign up for at: http://www.hackhawk.net Discussions going on now about leafletting (is that a word and did I spell it right if it is???) the Santa Monica 3rd St. Promenade this Saturday, July 28th to publicize the issue and advertise a planned rally on Monday, July 30th. Come on over, the more the merrier! Mark mark@blorch.org From ausage at ausage.com Thu Jul 26 21:32:26 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Abode Unlimited and the book box lock In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072700314701.05115@frankie> For everyone who enjoyed my little satire, it is now online at http://www.ausage.com/abode.php with the correction of a few typos (thanks all) and a couple of minor revisions. From ben at kalifornia.com Thu Jul 26 22:13:41 2001 From: ben at kalifornia.com (Ben Ford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Backlash References: <20010727001934.21952@techunix.technion.ac.il> Message-ID: <3B60F885.2020105@kalifornia.com> > > >>>If you want copyright infringement to become a noble affair, I suggest >>>you look into the possibility of proudly using the word "pirate" - like >>> >>black >> >>>people have done with "nigger" , or gay people with "gay". >>> >>It worked for "gay" which was a happy term to begin with, but it did not >>work for "nigger" which -- here in North Carolina -- I am socially forbidden >>from saying in public. (It actually upsets people.) >> Don't tell me you've never heard the words, "What's up, nigger?" Even the white boys around here say that. -b -- Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are going to burn in Hell forever. From crism at maden.org Thu Jul 26 22:26:54 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why do you persist in covering Chinese detainments... In-Reply-To: <0107260745310K.14496@stumpy> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010726222406.00a6c580@mail.maden.org> At 07:45 26-07-2001, Roger Kramer wrote: >If indeed no one in NPR is aware of this story (I say incredulously), please >begin at: ? You should begin at and search for "sklyarov"; you'll find two stories from the 18th and 19th. They were one of the first to cover it. -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From wade at ebookweb.org Thu Jul 26 22:39:53 2001 From: wade at ebookweb.org (Wade Roush) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Announcement - eBookWeb event: Digital Rights, DMCA and Hackers Message-ID: You are cordially invited to participate in eBookWeb's second Event: What: "Digital Rights, DMCA and Hackers" When: July 30 through August 2 Where: http://12.108.175.91/ebookweb/stories/storyReader$142 We will be discussing the pros and cons of DRM systems, the DMCA, and Adobe, Elcomsoft and related matters. It should be a lively event! Pass the word! The Event will run for four days on a Web-based discussion forum, so it is easy to participate. We invite you to visit the Event forum daily, read the conversation, and add your thoughts. To post comments, you first need to register as a member of eBookWeb: http://12.108.175.91/ebookweb/member/signup Thank you for your time, and we look forward to seeing you at the Event! Cheers, Wade Roush Editor in chief Glenn Sanders Director http://www.ebookweb.org From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Thu Jul 26 22:31:23 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA-minnesota Rally Monday Message-ID: Protesters will meet in front of the Minneapolis Federal Courthouse on Monday July 30 at 4pm to call for the release of Dmitry Sklyarov and the repeal of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). (background info here -- you know the drill. If you don't, visit http://www.freesklyarov.org) The federal courthouse is located at 300 S 4th St. (it is the one with the big bumps out front: http://www.cosentini.com/portfol/public/pauscho/minnext.htm). Planners will meet on Saturday at 7:30 at the Perkins south of 36 on Snelling in Roseville to prepare, and DMCA-minnesota listmembers will spend the next several days spreading the word. Anything I'm forgetting? Free Dmitry. Repeal the DMCA. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ From david.haworth at altavista.net Thu Jul 26 23:08:27 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Backlash In-Reply-To: ; from adunston@jetstream.com on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:51:59AM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010727080827.B79@3soft.de> On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:51:59AM -0700, Adrian Dunston wrote: > > I own copyrighted material, By saying that, you're falling into the semantic trap of the corporations. You don't _own_ anything (except insofar as you own the physical medium that it's stored on) - you have a limited monopoly on certain acts of publishing that material. This concept of "ownership" of "content" is the reason we're in this mess in the first place - for some reason, certain corporations appear to think that they own patterns in the magnetic field of my hard disk ... -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From david.haworth at altavista.net Thu Jul 26 23:11:23 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Wanted: Lovable hero for copyright battle? In-Reply-To: ; from sacraver@EE.Princeton.EDU on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 03:40:55PM -0400 References: <20010726142220.H18082@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20010727081123.C79@3soft.de> On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 03:40:55PM -0400, Xcott Craver wrote: > > "Lovable hero for copyright battle?" What, like, a Franklin Mint > ceramic figurine of a sad puppy shedding a single tear in front > of a padlocked book? What a great image - is there an artist out there willing to draw one for the cause? We could use it on all the "Anti-WIPO-Treaty" web sites across the world. -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From alansmitheee at hotmail.com Fri Jul 27 06:12:24 2001 From: alansmitheee at hotmail.com (Alan Smithee) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Announcement - eBookWeb event: Digital Rights, DMCA and Hac Message-ID: Wade, This is a most excellent idea and I look forward to participating. Might I respectfully suggest, however, that you re-consider your choice of the word 'Hacker.' It is a buzz word that connotes illegality and crime, and to many, incorrectly frames the debate. 'Coder' would be far more neutral and better define the balance of rights at stake. In my humble opinion. Kind regards. >-----Original Message----- >From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net >[mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Wade Roush >Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 10:40 PM >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Announcement - eBookWeb event: Digital Rights, >DMCA and Hackers > > >You are cordially invited to participate in eBookWeb's second Event: > > What: "Digital Rights, DMCA and Hackers" > When: July 30 through August 2 > Where: http://12.108.175.91/ebookweb/stories/storyReader$142 > >We will be discussing the pros and cons of DRM systems, the DMCA, and >Adobe, Elcomsoft and related matters. It should be a lively event! > >Pass the word! > >The Event will run for four days on a Web-based discussion forum, so >it >is easy to participate. We invite you to visit the Event forum >daily, >read the conversation, and add your thoughts. > >To post comments, you first need to register as a member of eBookWeb: > http://12.108.175.91/ebookweb/member/signup > >Thank you for your time, and we look forward to seeing you at the >Event! > >Cheers, > >Wade Roush >Editor in chief > >Glenn Sanders >Director > >http://www.ebookweb.org > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca Thu Jul 26 23:15:26 2001 From: tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Backlash In-Reply-To: <20010727080827.B79@3soft.de> Message-ID: > You don't _own_ anything (except insofar as you own the physical medium > that it's stored on) - you have a limited monopoly on certain > acts of publishing that material. I think you disagreement with the term "own" is just like our arguement that pirating and hacking don't really mean what they used to mean. Many terms have new meanings in the digital world. My guess is that owning is one of them. TAA ----------------------------------------------------- Tony Abou-Assaleh Graduate Student, Department of Computer Science University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, Canada, N2L 3G1 Office: DC2503 Phone: (519) 888-4567 Ext. 3399 Email: taa@acm.org -----------------------[THE END]--------------------- From tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca Thu Jul 26 23:25:51 2001 From: tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker or Not? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Might I respectfully suggest, however, that you re-consider your choice of > the word 'Hacker.' > > It is a buzz word that connotes illegality and crime, and to many, > incorrectly frames the debate. We (or most of us), the computer scientists, programmers, computer-hobbyists, etc .. are in fact hackers, using the original meaning of the term hacking that predates computers. The media, mainly, has changed the meaning of this word. We can either encourage the new meaning by using 'hacker' only in the criminal context, or we can try to preserve the old meaning by using it whenever we can to refer to people who like to experiment and explore etc. This thread is somewhat off-topic. Maybe we should stop it here. TAA ----------------------------------------------------- Tony Abou-Assaleh Graduate Student, Department of Computer Science University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, Canada, N2L 3G1 Office: DC2503 Phone: (519) 888-4567 Ext. 3399 Email: taa@acm.org -----------------------[THE END]--------------------- From byoungvt at yahoo.com Thu Jul 26 23:50:56 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Strange Hits Tonight Message-ID: <20010727065056.56353.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> Hmmm.... Just got a hit from Lucas Films???? Makes you wonder??? Friend or Foe????? I left off the IP and the time to protect the "innocent". Domain Name lucasfilm.com ? (Commercial) IP Address Language Setting English Operating System Unknown Unknown Browser Netscape 3.01 Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;) Time of Visit Jul 26 2001 Last Page View Jul 26 2001 Visit Length 46 seconds Page Views 3 Referring URL Visit Entry Page Visit Exit Page http://130.65.212.28:8080/sjrally.jsp Time Zone UTC-8:00 PST - Pacific Standard Time PDT - Pacific Daylight Saving Time Visitor's Time Jul 26 2001 From ben at kalifornia.com Fri Jul 27 00:12:04 2001 From: ben at kalifornia.com (Ben Ford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Strange Hits Tonight References: <20010727065056.56353.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B611444.3010708@kalifornia.com> brad young wrote: >Hmmm.... > >Just got a hit from Lucas Films???? Makes you >wonder??? Friend or Foe????? I left off the IP and the >time to protect the "innocent". > >Domain Name lucasfilm.com ? (Commercial) >IP Address >Language Setting English >Operating System Unknown Unknown >Browser Netscape 3.01 > Err . . . What year is it again? > >Mozilla/3.01 (compatible;) >Time of Visit Jul 26 2001 >Last Page View Jul 26 2001 >Visit Length 46 seconds >Page Views 3 >Referring URL >Visit Entry Page >Visit Exit Page >http://130.65.212.28:8080/sjrally.jsp >Time Zone UTC-8:00 >PST - Pacific Standard Time >PDT - Pacific Daylight Saving Time >Visitor's Time Jul 26 2001 > -- Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are going to burn in Hell forever. From kris at firstworld.net Fri Jul 27 00:25:56 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Backlash In-Reply-To: <20010727080827.B79@3soft.de> References: Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010727002336.01225108@pop.firstworld.net> At 08:08 AM 7/27/2001 +0200, David Haworth wrote: >On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:51:59AM -0700, Adrian Dunston wrote: >> >> I own copyrighted material, > >By saying that, you're falling into the semantic trap of the corporations. >You don't _own_ anything (except insofar as you own the physical medium >that it's stored on) - you have a limited monopoly on certain >acts of publishing that material. > >This concept of "ownership" of "content" is the reason we're in this mess >in the first place - for some reason, certain corporations appear to >think that they own patterns in the magnetic field of my hard disk ... True, no one can't "own" an idea or thought. The government, may, however grant a person a monopoly to profit from an idea. Kris From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Jul 27 00:43:23 2001 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. morning in San Jose In-Reply-To: <001301c11637$6dc4a220$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: <20010727004323.E21489@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> begin roylo quotation: > Thanks, got to tell you that I'm REALLY discouraged at this point. I'm genuinely sorry to hear that, because I strong approve of the leadership you've been exercising in this matter. A few of us (Nick Moffitt, Tabinda Khan, Don Marti, Seth David Schoen, me, and some others you probably don't know yet) have the advantage of having done organising for Windows Refund Day and other events, for a long time. What I was trying to do was give you some suggestions derived from that experience, so you can avoid making all the errors that we learned about the hard way. If I can give you more material and immediate help, I'd be glad to do that, too (time permitting). In fact, if I sounded annoyed and dyspeptic, it was mostly because I'd have very much wanted to come and help, this coming Saturday, but for the time conflict. (Also, I just got through having a couple of exchanges with the leadership of East Bay Linux User Group, who _also_ scheduled a conflicting event -- their first InstallFest -- right opposite the CABAL/BALUG/BAFUG/SVBUG one at the Cow Palace. This despite the fact that they knew all about my BALE calendar, and therefore should have known that most of the Bay Area's experienced InstallFest organisers, who could make the difference for their event, were going to be otherwise occupied. And they know they've screwed up some of their past events because of similar conflicts. So, I was feeling a little frustrated on that point.) By the way, if you _want_ to be known as anything besides "roylo" -- which you needn't if you'd rather not -- you might want to introduce yourself. (Your "real name" field in your mailer ends up with that value, possibly for lack of anything filled into the appropriate blank.) -- This message falsely claims to have been scanned for viruses with F-Secure Anti-Virus for Microsoft Exchange and to have been found clean. From huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com Fri Jul 27 00:31:17 2001 From: huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com (huaiyu_zhu@yahoo.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Backlash In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Doug noticed two articles with substantial misinformation. One big problem with such misinformation is that there is no easy way to talk back. Would someone care to put up a page linking the articles to proper rebuttals? This could also serve as a repertoire of expositional essays. Yes, I know there are many existing sites, but most of the materials there are just impenetrably difficult for casual readers. > The worst of the two, IMO, is from Business Week Online: > > http://biz.yahoo.com/bizwk/010725/u2uwdgj7_smmdbiz41ntqa.html This one blatantly equate producing a tool to overcome usages restriction with stealing. My previous post "Rights vs capabilities" was an attempt to rebut such misinformation. > The other article, by the Patricia Seybold Group, is unfortunately > harder to attack, because it makes one good point. This article is > available at the Planet Ebook site: > > http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=196 This one has a more subtle analogy: a company sells lock picks so that people can break into book shops to take any book they want. This has two flaws: A circumvention device is not a cracking device. It does not allow users to break into other people's premise. It only allows people to break into properties they already own that resides in their own home. Since their analogy dwells on "the fact that every customer that used the tools to enter a shop did so illegally", it has nothing in common with the current case in this respect. If Elcomsoft was selling something to break into other people's networks to steal credit card numbers, for example, such an analogy might fit nicely. A more fitting analogy in Sklyarov case is selling a tool to break into your own safe, should you lose the key but still remember the number. Secondly, it conveniently forget that reading or copying a book is quite different from taking a physical book out of a shop. The mentality behind their analogy highlights what is really frightening about the future: all the digital objects within our homes might end up being owned by someone else, and reading a book that we already own might be equivalent to breaking into someone else's premise. It is as if the dire predictions in Richard Stallman's essay "Right to Read" would become true. Let's try to make our future brighter than such predictions. Huaiyu Zhu From pablos at kadrevis.com Fri Jul 27 00:45:21 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] May be of interest. (fwd) Message-ID: <347168.996194721@[10.0.1.220]> This woman got a reply from Adobe. In case nobody has sent this to the list, it itemizes their position. Also, somebody should write this woman back and let her know why our view differs from Adobe. Please be nice! pablos. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Thursday, July 26, 2001 1:24 PM -0700 From: Linda To: "nicehair@boycottadobe.com" Subject: May be of interest. I don't quite have a complaint about your website ... in fact I did write the people at Adobe as you suggested ... letter follows. I did receive a letter in response and of course their story is a bit different than what you have to say. As a citizen who does not know who is right or who is wrong in this case ... it would be nice if the other side of the story were printed ... if indeed it is accurate. As a logical thinker I am wondering why the justice department is involved in this if Adobe is not behind it all ... what else might they be hanging on to that they think this young man has done? Linda Porasso -------------------------------------- 1. In the case of Acrobat, when Adobe was made aware of the security breach, we fixed the problem immediately. The Russian company did NOT notify us prior to commercial selling their program. 2. In order to protect all E-book authors' intellectual property (not Adobe's) we asked the Justice Dept's help in stopping the sale of the Security Cracking Code that compromised the ebook format. This was after our unsuccessful attempts to work with the company first. 3. When the sale of the program stopped, Adobe's interests were satisfied. 4. Adobe had NOTHING to do with the arrest of Dimitry. This was a unilateral decision of the Justice Dept. We were as surprised at the arrest as everyone else. We have no influence with the Justice Dept as to who they prosecute under United States criminal law. 5. When White Hat security experts notify us of possible weaknesses in security, we work with them, thank them, and fix the problems as soon as possible. 6. We have joined the "Electronic Freedom Foundation" in calling for the release of Dimitry. John Warnock To whom it may concern, I have been using Adobe products all of my computer life. My contact with your group whenever I had a problem was superb. I was stunned to read that Adobe was involved in the arrest of the Russian security expert for pointing out flaws in Adobe products. I have long known that the watermarks on images are worthless ... not only do they degrade the image they can be bypassed easily (I am talking about digimark now) ... I am not sure exactly what security this young man is talking about ... however I would think Adobe would be listen to anyone who might have an answer to their problem. I am joining the boycott and will not upgrade any of my software until this matter is settled and this young man is free to go home to his family. Sincerely, Linda Porasso ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From david.haworth at altavista.net Fri Jul 27 01:04:04 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A message to Pat Schroeder Message-ID: <20010727100404.E79@3soft.de> Here's the text of an email I sent to Pat Schroeder, President and CEO of AAP --- cut here --- Dear Ms. Schroeder, I am writing to you to complain about your press release entitled "Publishers Hail Government Action Against Russian Ebook Hackers". This is message is not about the sentiments expressed in that document - no doubt others have already written to you about that. What I am complaining about is the factual accuracy of some of the statements made in that press release. I see a lot of so-called media releases on the web that contain misleading and sometimes obviously false statements, and I for one am sick and tired of all the misinformation and propaganda. In your first paragraph, you claim that the so-called technological safeguards "prevent unauthorized copying and distribution of ebooks". This is clearly false, as has been recently demonstrated. It is a classic case of Orwellian doublethink to maintain that it is true and yet denigrate one who has demonstrated the opposite. You say that the DMCA was enacted to implement the provisions of certain WIPO treaties. The DMCA makes provisions far in excess of some of the articles in those treaties, while conveniently ignoring others. I'm not going to discuss the faults of the DMCA - there are far too many for this short message - but let it suffice for me to quote Article 11 "Obligations concerning Technological Measures" from that treaty: "Contracting Parties shall provide adequate legal protection and effective legal remedies against the circumvention of effectives technological measures that are used by authors in connection with the exercise of their rights under this Treaty or the Berne Convention and that restrict acts, in respect of their works, which are not authorized by the authors concerned or permitted by law." As you can see, the protection of technological measures is afforded to authors, not to publishers, and the technological measures must not restrict acts that are permitted by law. There is no mention in the Treaty of outlawing circumvention devices. I think it is because of these excessive provisions that some of your members are publicly critical of the DMCA. In your third paragraph, you say that the Advanced Ebook Processor program "was designed to unlock [...] the eBook Reader". I think you'll find that the program merely decrypts the eBook, thus making it accessible through normal document readers. It makes no modification to the reader program, although I believe Mr. Sklyarov discussed a way of manufacturing so-called plug-in modules for Adobe's reader program. In your fifth paragraph, you mention common sense dictating that authors and publishers want to protect their rights. That's as may be, but it is also common sense that people buying the eBooks will expect to be able to lend them to their friends, to give them away or sell the secondhand when no longer required, to be able to read them in any way they wish, and, if cared for correctly, to endure for many years - probably much longer than the computer that they were originally loaded onto. None of this "common sense" is taken into account when publishers push these restricted-use works onto unsuspecting members of the public. In the sixth paragrah, you say "Distribution [of circumvention devices] is not a public service, any more than it would be a public service to distribute the keys that unlock a bookstore or public library". A ridiculous comparison - firstly because people can enter a public library and read or borrow books of their choice - an freedom that you would clearly like to end. Secondly, the circumvention device allows people to unlock eBooks that they have bought and paid for. A more reasonable comparison would be that the device gets rid of the security guard that stands looking over your shoulder whenever you read the book - something that doesn't happen when you buy a normal book from a bookstore. But I suspect that isn't an image you'd like to conjure up in the public's imagination, despite the remarkable similarity. I could go on further about the contradictions inherent in claiming that these "protection measures" are secure, and then publishing the secrets and keys, in the form of a Reader program for a general-pupose computer, but there is enough discussion material there to fill a short book. So I'll leave you with one final comment: I am not a criminal, and I resent the implication inherent in these restricted-use media that I am a criminal. Therefore, until the publishing industry comes to its corporate senses, I will not be buying any publications in electronic form unless I am free to use my property in any way I see fit, subject to the accepted limitations of copyright. Sincerely David Haworth -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From ausage at ausage.com Fri Jul 27 01:15:39 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Backlash In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072704153900.06527@frankie> On July 27, 2001 03:31 am, huaiyu_zhu@yahoo.com wrote: > > http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=196 > > This one has a more subtle analogy: a company sells lock picks so that > people can break into book shops to take any book they want. The analogy has a very big flaw. The manufacture and sale of lock picks in the US is perfectly legal and the following URL provides a gold mine of information. All conveniently located on Yahoo! http://dir.yahoo.com/Recreation/Hobbies/Lock_Picking/ -- Andrew Lawrence Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 From moeller at scireview.de Fri Jul 27 01:30:59 2001 From: moeller at scireview.de (Erik Moeller) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] May be of interest. (fwd) In-Reply-To: <347168.996194721@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <3B6142E3.11675.2A39E27@localhost> To: Linda, Pablos and the free-sklyarov mailing list Regarding Adobe's reply to the Sklyarov inquiry: > The Russian company did NOT > notify us prior to commercial selling their program. International copyright usually includes "fair use" provisions of some sort. In the case of ebooks, consumers have the right to make personal copies, print the book, feed it to a text-to-speech program (essential for blind readers) etc. Adobe has limited these rights in their ebooks, doing so is an integral part of their ebook strategy (it makes ebooks more attractive to publishers). Elcomsoft, Dmitry Sklyarov's company, sold a product that gave consumers the ability to circumvent these restrictions. Dmitry was targeted because he is the copyright holder for the program. Under the US DMCA which was passed as a result of extensive lobbying on the national and international level by the content industry, circumventing such restrictions is illegal. In other words, a company can deny you rights that you legally have, but if you try to take them back, you can go to jail. The DMCA also endangers free speech and free science since it potentially makes documenting the methods used for restricting content illegal. In this regard, the DMCA is clearly unconstitutional, but the courts have not yet examined it because there are still relatively few cases. Elcomsoft tried to make money with a product that should be perfectly legal, but is not under US law. Since they sold the product to US customers, US law came into the equation for prosecuting Elcomsoft. Elcomsoft did not have any obligation, legal or moral, to notify Adobe of their actions. Morally, their actions were beneficial to consumers who would now be able to legally use books in ways that they couldn't previously. Whether Elcomsoft's fair use restoration program actually violates the DMCA is not clear, since the DMCA refers to technological measures that "effectively protect a right of a copyright holder" (notice the word "effectively"). > 2. In order to > protect all E-book authors' intellectual property (not Adobe's) we > asked the Justice Dept's help in stopping the sale of the Security > Cracking Code that compromised the ebook format. This was after our > unsuccessful attempts to work with the company first. These unsuccessful attempts to "work with" the company consisted of threats to Elcomsoft to take down the program, threats to the ISP that hosted the Elcomsoft website, and finally threats to the billing company used for processing sales of the product. > 3. When the sale > of the program stopped, Adobe's interests were satisfied. Adobe met with the Attorney's office on June 26 and specifically informed them about Dmitry Sklarov's appearence on the Defcon IT expert conference, which would be the best (and possibly only) opportunity for an arrest. http://www.usaondca.com/press/assets/applets/2001_07_17_sklyarov.pdf After the sales of the program stopped two days after their meeting with the Attorney's office, Adobe took no steps to prevent an arrest. This either shows extreme carelessness on Adobe's part, or a deliberate attempt to instill fear in all IT experts who try to remove fair use restrictions. > 4. Adobe had NOTHING to do with the arrest of Dimitry. This, as documented above, is a lie. > 5. When White Hat > security experts notify us of possible weaknesses in security, we work > with them, thank them, and fix the problems as soon as possible. There are no documented steps by Adobe to cooperate with Elcomsoft in any way to fix the extreme flaws in their fair use restriction. > 6. We have joined the "Electronic Freedom Foundation" in calling for the > release of Dimitry. Only as a result of international protests by scientists and IT workers. But Adobe's attitude has not changed at all -- from their press release: "We strongly support the DMCA and the enforcement of copyright protection of digital content," said Colleen Pouliot, Senior Vice President and General Counsel for Adobe. "However, the prosecution of this individual in this particular case is not conducive to the best interests of any of the parties involved or the industry. ElcomSoft's Advanced eBook Processor software is no longer available in the United States, and from that perspective the DMCA worked. Adobe will continue to protect its copyright interests and those of its customers." Adobe's customers are the publishers. The readers are their enemies. Sincerely, Erik Moeller -- Scientific Reviewer, Freelancer, Humanist -- Berlin/Germany Phone: +49-30-45491008 - Web: The Origins of Peace and Violence: "History is full of people who, out of fear or ignorance or the lust for power, have destroyed treasures of immeasurable value which truly belong to all of us. We must not let it happen again." -- Carl Sagan From roylo at sr2c.com Fri Jul 27 01:31:37 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. morning in San Jose References: <20010727004323.E21489@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <002b01c11676$8d9ccca0$0200a8c0@jwin> Yes, I'm truly appreciate your comments and inputs and I have learned alot from it. It just happen that alot of people just telling me that they are busy or have changed their mind. So, I didn't get the number of people to help out as I planned. Anyway, regardless of what; I will go pass out flyers in San Jose State College and De Anze College tomorrow. And I be there to protest on Sat., even if I will have to be there by myself. (Bob La Quey, thank your for your encouraging words) Because we are protesting for what we all believe is right. Maybe next time we can protest together ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Moen" To: Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 12:43 AM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Sat. morning in San Jose > begin roylo quotation: > > Thanks, got to tell you that I'm REALLY discouraged at this point. > > I'm genuinely sorry to hear that, because I strong approve of the > leadership you've been exercising in this matter. > > A few of us (Nick Moffitt, Tabinda Khan, Don Marti, Seth David Schoen, > me, and some others you probably don't know yet) have the advantage of > having done organising for Windows Refund Day and other events, for a > long time. What I was trying to do was give you some suggestions > derived from that experience, so you can avoid making all the errors > that we learned about the hard way. If I can give you more material and > immediate help, I'd be glad to do that, too (time permitting). > > In fact, if I sounded annoyed and dyspeptic, it was mostly because I'd > have very much wanted to come and help, this coming Saturday, but for > the time conflict. > > (Also, I just got through having a couple of exchanges with the > leadership of East Bay Linux User Group, who _also_ scheduled a > conflicting event -- their first InstallFest -- right opposite the > CABAL/BALUG/BAFUG/SVBUG one at the Cow Palace. This despite the fact > that they knew all about my BALE calendar, and therefore should have > known that most of the Bay Area's experienced InstallFest organisers, > who could make the difference for their event, were going to be > otherwise occupied. And they know they've screwed up some of their > past events because of similar conflicts. So, I was feeling a little > frustrated on that point.) > > By the way, if you _want_ to be known as anything besides "roylo" -- > which you needn't if you'd rather not -- you might want to introduce > yourself. (Your "real name" field in your mailer ends up with that > value, possibly for lack of anything filled into the appropriate blank.) > > -- > This message falsely claims to have been scanned for viruses with F-Secure > Anti-Virus for Microsoft Exchange and to have been found clean. > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From debug at centras.lt Fri Jul 27 01:48:20 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Backlash In-Reply-To: <20010726122208.G14917@zork.net> References: <4024789737.20010726202427@centras.lt> <20010726122208.G14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <155410478.20010727104820@centras.lt> SDS> I think this argument is reasonable, and all copyright is a restriction SDS> on freedom of speech which might not be accepted today if it were SDS> proposed from scratch. ("What? You're going to let corporations _OWN SDS> INFORMATION_? What are you thinking?") Yes exactly. This is because information is unmaterial and thus unlimited resource. SDS> Since _some kind_ of copyright is very traditional in the U.S. and SDS> there are industries based on it, it's hard to imagine having it go SDS> away altogether. Industries based on copyrights are potencial risk - risk of misserving public needs by wrong investitions. This is what happend with dot-com. So i think people themselves should decide and own the industries. Make production process available to public and allow people to invest into it directly (Namely let people decide how much are we gonna pay for this and for this on each step of the production process) SDS> What are the biggest harms from copyright today? It's not that people SDS> have to pay for books and movies! As long as public libraries are SDS> strong, it's not a big deal that you have to go pay $12 or $20 if you SDS> want your own copy of something. Yes, certain prices have been SDS> inflated, but the "having to pay for copies" isn't a terrible harm SDS> to the public. If it is not terrible harm to the public then ok let's make public pay for it the full price - it can be terrible harm for individual and if public really supports constitutional copyrights it has either to pay for people who does not accept these copyrights (this is marxism and it turned out to be utopy) or to admit that copyright is not accepted by EACH individual and thus can not be accepted at all. If government want to support industries based on copyrights it should be responsible to provide products of that industry for free to those individuals who does not accept copyrights (yes this is marxism ) If it is not acceptable then government should honestly say this kind of copyright cannot be supported (and i think this is the way of god) SDS> The real harms are the erosion of protections for the public's side of SDS> the copyright bargain -- the attacks on the fair use and first sale SDS> doctrines, for example. The real harms are when copyright keeps works SDS> out of print, even when somebody wants to buy them And what if someone says i can make it cheaper - i just buy original CD and go burn CDs. This is much cheaper. I do agree that the right way would be to convince copyright holder to do it but if he refuses let others do it. SDS> Of course, SDS> traditional copyright law doesn't say that; it says that copyright SDS> holders have certain specific enumerated exclusive rights, for a SDS> limited time, and then that's the end of it. But if there are individuals who think limited period of time is too long you must either shorten it or pay those individuals so they agree SDS> but much debate about copyright proceeds along "how can SDS> we best protect owners?" lines. It is so simple - give control of the production lines to the public. SDS> It's being forgotten that traditional SDS> copyright in the U.S. was conceived as a (to use my term) public SDS> subsidy to promote creative work; That's great that is exactly what i mean. So let each individual decide how he is going to subsidy. >> AD> Like people who burn and sell hundreds of CDs (without consent of artists >> AD> and copyright holders) for personal profit. >> So what ? They help the public to satisfy its needs for cheaper price. >> What is wrong with that ? SDS> I suggested in a letter that copyright infringement is somewhat like SDS> tax evasion: Yes i do agree. But the question is how tax should be collected. I think the right way is to collect ALL UNUSED money from all people and use this money to support copyrights. This will not lead to all people being equal because their needs are different. Also this leaves the right to decide for each individual. SDS> I do think (after Stallman) that infringing copyrights is different SDS> from "stealing", because it doesn't take anything away from the SDS> copyright holder. But it does say "I don't respect this policy of SDS> compensating people for creative work". Yes i say that because i found more effective way to do that work Should the public still continue to subsidy less effective way of production ? SDS> Perhaps if copyright SDS> law were again more "reasonable", more people would feel guilty about SDS> violating it. I always feel guilty when i violate copyright because noone allowed me to take this decision TOGETHER with copyright-holder. I just want to go to copyright-holder and say - look there is no need to prevent people copying CDs, let's do it ourselves, how much will it cost me ? It i do not get "You've got the deal" i just go to compete (by illegal use) and to prove i was right SDS> So my point for the Free Sklyarov movement is that -- because most SDS> people are not against copyrights, and many respected copyright SDS> supporters, like Brad Templeton, have been doing crucial work here -- SDS> it's not _necessary_ to oppose copyright to see why Sklyarov should be SDS> free. And most people in the movement probably support copyright. I do agree. I just wanted to make people understand. I do not think the general public is going to understand. I do not think that deaf can hear so speak to them what they can hear -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From derek_gladding at altavista.net Fri Jul 27 01:48:47 2001 From: derek_gladding at altavista.net (Derek Gladding) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] May be of interest. (fwd) In-Reply-To: <347168.996194721@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: So, who are the "Electronic Freedom Foundation" then ? On the case with the reply. - Derek -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Pablos Kadrevis Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 12:45 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] May be of interest. (fwd) This woman got a reply from Adobe. In case nobody has sent this to the list, it itemizes their position. Also, somebody should write this woman back and let her know why our view differs from Adobe. Please be nice! pablos. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Thursday, July 26, 2001 1:24 PM -0700 From: Linda To: "nicehair@boycottadobe.com" Subject: May be of interest. I don't quite have a complaint about your website ... in fact I did write the people at Adobe as you suggested ... letter follows. I did receive a letter in response and of course their story is a bit different than what you have to say. As a citizen who does not know who is right or who is wrong in this case ... it would be nice if the other side of the story were printed ... if indeed it is accurate. As a logical thinker I am wondering why the justice department is involved in this if Adobe is not behind it all ... what else might they be hanging on to that they think this young man has done? Linda Porasso -------------------------------------- 1. In the case of Acrobat, when Adobe was made aware of the security breach, we fixed the problem immediately. The Russian company did NOT notify us prior to commercial selling their program. 2. In order to protect all E-book authors' intellectual property (not Adobe's) we asked the Justice Dept's help in stopping the sale of the Security Cracking Code that compromised the ebook format. This was after our unsuccessful attempts to work with the company first. 3. When the sale of the program stopped, Adobe's interests were satisfied. 4. Adobe had NOTHING to do with the arrest of Dimitry. This was a unilateral decision of the Justice Dept. We were as surprised at the arrest as everyone else. We have no influence with the Justice Dept as to who they prosecute under United States criminal law. 5. When White Hat security experts notify us of possible weaknesses in security, we work with them, thank them, and fix the problems as soon as possible. 6. We have joined the "Electronic Freedom Foundation" in calling for the release of Dimitry. John Warnock To whom it may concern, I have been using Adobe products all of my computer life. My contact with your group whenever I had a problem was superb. I was stunned to read that Adobe was involved in the arrest of the Russian security expert for pointing out flaws in Adobe products. I have long known that the watermarks on images are worthless ... not only do they degrade the image they can be bypassed easily (I am talking about digimark now) ... I am not sure exactly what security this young man is talking about ... however I would think Adobe would be listen to anyone who might have an answer to their problem. I am joining the boycott and will not upgrade any of my software until this matter is settled and this young man is free to go home to his family. Sincerely, Linda Porasso ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk Fri Jul 27 02:30:04 2001 From: a.chterenlikht at sheffield.ac.uk (Anton Chterenlikht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:53 2005 Subject: [Free-sklyarov-uk] Re: [free-sklyarov] Re: UK Free-Sklyarov Mailing List References: <3B60000B.6573A551@sheffield.ac.uk> <20010726112000.C14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <3B61349C.C568184A@sheffield.ac.uk> Dear David, I agree with all you say. But, I had only two minutes to explain the situation. I was very nervous and the radio guy was not sympathetic at all. I just wanted to make them interested because only if they are interested there was a chance that they will ask more questions and I'll have more time to speak. I guess I failed. Maybe I did wrong, maybe it was a bad idea anton Seth David Schoen wrote: > Some of these things are no longer true: > > Anton Chterenlikht writes: > > > So, instead of making the civil case IAdobe vs Elcomsoftf they?ve chosen the > > most vulnerable person available who was Dmitry (probably if Dmitry would go > > there with his family they would arrest his wife and children instead of him!). > > I doubt that -- it's hard to convince the FBI that they broke the law. > > > Just think about this: Dmitry is innocent (even Adobe recognised this and > > finally, after a strong pressure from many people and organisations around the > > world said that he should be released from the federal custody). > > Adobe didn't agree that he's innocent, just that prosecuting him is > not in their best interests. I agree with them that prosecuting him > is not in their best interests, but unfortunately that might be > because it has been turning the public and their customers against > Adobe and against the DMCA. > > > So, he is innocent and.. he is in jail, in a foreign country, with poor English, > > far away from his family (his wife Oxana and the two children, son Egor, 2.5 > > years old and daughter Polina, only 3 mohths old, they have no money to visit > > him even if they will be allowed. At present they aren?t). > > Now: his family have received "numerous" offers for the full cost of a > trip to Las Vegas or the Bay Area. Aside from individual pledges of > $20-$100, several individuals have simply offered to underwrite the > entire cost personally. > > Everyone who has spoken to or corresponded with Oksana Sklyarov, > including EFF officials and colleagues of Dmitry Sklyarov, has gotten > the same reply: Ms. Sklyarov _does not wish to come to the United > States_. > > > There is no reliable information about his whereabouts; no one knows where and > > when he?ll turn out next. > > This situation has been improving: lawyers and his family have been in > contact with him at the jail in Las Vegas where he's held. Although > the Federal Marshals could move him, lawyers and his family would be > able to infer that that had happened, and apparently we even know > which jails in Santa Clara County he might end up in. He would only > be out of touch for a short time in transit between jails. > > > How can it be explained that Russian consul still (after 10 days) haven?t got a > > permission to see Dmitry > > I don't believe that any of their requests have been refused. > > > Finally I would like to repeat the words of two of the leading British > > scientists. > > > > Alan Cox, the leading developer of Linux operating system said: > > The lead developer is Linus Torvalds; Alan Cox is "second-in-command". > > -- > Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving > Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions > down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe > > _______________________________________________ > Free-sklyarov-uk mailing list > Free-sklyarov-uk@xenoclast.org > http://mailman.xenoclast.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-uk From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 27 02:58:28 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] LOS ANGELES area--please join us! In-Reply-To: <01072621151205.00995@bilbo.blorch.org> References: <20010726210950.C4100@spesh.com> <01072621151205.00995@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <87elr2elrv.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "MKB" == Mark K Bilbo writes: MKB> Discussions going on now about leafletting (is that a word MKB> and did I spell it right if it is???) the Santa Monica 3rd MKB> St. Promenade this Saturday, July 28th to publicize the issue MKB> and advertise a planned rally on Monday, July 30th. ROLL ON LOS ANGELES! This is so excellent to hear! LA's a City of Freedom! Free Dmitry, ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From derek_gladding at altavista.net Fri Jul 27 03:03:24 2001 From: derek_gladding at altavista.net (Derek Gladding) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] May be of interest. (fwd) In-Reply-To: <347168.996194721@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: Hi Linda First, can I thank you on behalf of everyone involved in the effort to free Dmitry for taking the time to listen to what we have to say and for informing Adobe of your feelings about the matter. It's much appreciated. I'll deal with Adobe's points one by one, as there are certain pertinent facts that they have chosen to omit in their response. Hope you don't mind me slightly reordering your email to suit the flow of what I have to say ... [Adobe] > 1. In the case of Acrobat, when Adobe was made aware of the security > breach, we fixed the problem immediately. The Russian company did NOT > notify us prior to commercial selling their program. Elcomsoft have been in business selling this kind of software for some time (ironically one of their best customers is the organisation that arrested Dmitry - the FBI.) In Russia, it is illegal to sell software that prevents the user from making a backup for personal use - so, in their home country, Elcomsoft are not only behaving totally legally, but are providing a means for people to exercise a right they have been granted by law. In the US, the software was marketed at eBook *publishers*, not users, as a means of testing the security of products such as Adobe's. You may (quite reasonably) doubt this assertion - however, apart from the statements to that effect from Elcomsoft (both before and after Dmitry's arrest), consider: (a) they were selling their product for $99, considerably more than the price for a healthy stack of conventionally-acquired eBooks, and (b) the software requires that the user already has the password to the book it is being used on - it is not, as many people have been implying - a means for "stealing" books that you haven't already bought. So, yes, Elcomsoft did not inform Adobe that they were selling the software - but my personal opinion is that they had no reason to. Given that they were selling a tool for publishers to test Adobe's product (remember, this tool would do *nothing* without the user knowing the password they got when purchasing the book) - why should they ? I evaluate computer equipment all the time as part of my job, and I'm certainly not going to ask permission from each and every manufacturer each time I look under the hood to find out if they're telling the truth or just giving me marketing spin. As far as claiming to have "fixed the problem immediately" ... although I am not a cryptography expert, many people in the field whose opinions I respect have described their "fix" as being purely cosmetic. > 2. In order to protect all E-book authors' intellectual property (not > Adobe's) we asked the Justice Dept's help in stopping the sale of the > Security Cracking Code that compromised the ebook format. This was after > our unsuccessful attempts to work with the company first. After Adobe complained to Elcomsoft's US agent, Elcomsoft asked them to cease US sales of the software. To me, that is not an "unsuccessful" result for Adobe. This happened on the 28th June, and is documented in the criminal complaint: http://www.usaondca.com/press/assets/applets/2001_07_17_sklyarov.pdf The criminal complaint was signed and dated 10th July 2001, 12 days after Elcomsoft ceased US sales. > 3. When the sale of the program stopped, Adobe's interests were satisfied. Dmitry was arrested on the 16th of July, eighteen days *after* "Adobe's interests were satisfied." > > 4. Adobe had NOTHING to do with the arrest of Dimitry. This was a > unilateral decision of the Justice Dept. We were as surprised at the > arrest as everyone else. We have no influence with the Justice Dept as > to who they prosecute under United States criminal law. This is either extreme spin, or a demonstration of extreme ignorance of the powers that the Justice Department have. After the complaint was received, Dmitry *had* to be either arrested or left a free man. What other outcome could Adobe have expected ? > > 5. When White Hat security experts notify us of possible weaknesses in > security, we work with them, thank them, and fix the problems as soon as > possible. As discussed above, there is no reason that Elcomsoft should have worked directly with Adobe - after all, in their home country, it is their products that are legal and Adobe's that are illegal. > 6. We have joined the "Electronic Freedom Foundation" in calling > for the release of Dimitry. As I'm sure you're aware, this happened immediately after extreme pressure was applied to Adobe. I find it difficult to believe that they would have done the same purely as an act on conscience. As a side note, the correct name for the organisation is "Electronic Frontier Foundation". To me, this seems indicative of the level of respect that Adobe holds for those that they have "joined" in "calling for the release of Dimitry(sic)." > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > Date: Thursday, July 26, 2001 1:24 PM -0700 > From: Linda > To: "nicehair@boycottadobe.com" > Subject: May be of interest. > > > I don't quite have a complaint about your website ... in fact I did write > the people at Adobe as you suggested ... letter follows. > I did receive a letter in response and of course their story is a bit > different than what you have to say. As a citizen who does not know who is > right or who is wrong in this case ... it would be nice if the other side > of the story were printed ... Adobe's comments were posted immediately to the free-sklyarov list for all those involved to read, and are available on the web in the list archives for casual browsers to look at and consider. > if indeed it is accurate. I hope we have managed to convince you that it is, at best, a "constructive interpretation of the truth." > As a logical thinker I am wondering why the justice department is involved > in this if Adobe is not behind it all ... what else might they be hanging > on to that they think this young man has done? Now that more groups are involved there are too many agendas in play to guess the overall motive. We can just do our best to help Dmitry get home safely to his family (who, by the way, have had several offers of travel to the US but have turned them all down as they are too scared to enter the country - which, to me, is a rather shameful reflection on the state of affairs). > Linda Porasso > -------------------------------------- > Thanks again Linda for taking the time to read what we have to say and for giving us a chance to reply to Adobe's comments. - Derek From macki at 2600.com Fri Jul 27 03:10:10 2001 From: macki at 2600.com (Macki) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] May be of interest. (fwd) Message-ID: <20010727031010.omerta.f7196eb5ae19.3123.cd3f108c2b04.6144@rotten.com> John Warnock from Adobe wrote: > possible. 6. We have joined the "Electronic Freedom Foundation" in calling > for the release of Dimitry. I wonder who these "Electronic *Freedom* Foundation" folks are, and why we haven't heard of their involvment until now. Adobe really shows their commitment when they can't even get the name right. From micheas at earthlink.net Fri Jul 27 03:26:29 2001 From: micheas at earthlink.net (Micheas) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: ; from sacraver@EE.Princeton.EDU on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 11:31:35 -0700 References: <3B5FFC98.68413A8F@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20010727032629.A16566@linux> On 2001.07.26 11:31:35 -0700 Xcott Craver wrote: > On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Seth Johnson wrote: > > > > > 1) Copy controlled media > > > > 2) Usage controlled media > > > > 3) Crippled media (My suggestion) > > > - Access-restricted media > > > - Access-limited media > > - Unproductive format/media/etc. > > Disabled media. I have to vote for Crippled media From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Jul 27 03:37:41 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Strange Hits Tonight In-Reply-To: <3B611444.3010708@kalifornia.com>; from ben@kalifornia.com on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 12:12:04AM -0700 References: <20010727065056.56353.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> <3B611444.3010708@kalifornia.com> Message-ID: <20010727033741.R14917@zork.net> Ben Ford writes: > brad young wrote: > > >Hmmm.... > > > >Just got a hit from Lucas Films???? Makes you > >wonder??? Friend or Foe????? I left off the IP and the > >time to protect the "innocent". > > > >Domain Name lucasfilm.com ? (Commercial) You know how all kinds of different people work at all kinds of different companies? Gosh, when we were protesting at Adobe's headquarters on Monday, we were getting Adobe employees waving to us and giving us "thumbs-up" signs through the windows. I hope Adobe management realizes just how much support we had within Adobe, even if employees there don't care to talk about it openly every day. In fact, some organizers were receiving e-mail messages of support during the event from inside Adobe! Engineers at Adobe were passing on word about the general mood and climate at the company. If we have supporters at Adobe, if we have supporters among the AAP's own membership, why should we not have supporters in any other company? We _definitely_ have supporters among U.S. Senators' staff, and even from a Member of Congress. Somebody at Lucasfilm is a big deal? I remember when it was _really exciting_ for Linux web site operators to get hits from microsoft.com in their server logs. Now it's just boring. Like, yeah, everybody reads everybody else's web site. People are diverse and stuff. Some of them even think for themselves. :-) -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Jul 27 03:44:11 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] pointless quip In-Reply-To: <20010726195029.B8993@cluebot.com>; from declan@well.com on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 07:50:29PM -0400 References: <20010726120033.K722@zork.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010726134636.00b1aa78@earthlink.net> <20010726135533.W14917@zork.net> <20010726195029.B8993@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010727034411.S14917@zork.net> Declan McCullagh writes: > I think Nick's idea is he won't "question" congresscritters who pass > really bad laws for their "speech or debate," but for their votes. :) It seems that the clause is interpreted as applying to votes as well; if Jim isn't too busy, maybe he can explain why. I think this is going off-topic, though. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From jonathanjo at mindspring.com Fri Jul 27 04:18:36 2001 From: jonathanjo at mindspring.com (Jonathan Watterson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: free-sklyarov digest, Vol 1 #176 - 125 msgs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 7/27/01 3:47 AM, free-sklyarov-request@zork.net at free-sklyarov-request@zork.net wrote: >>>>>> "JW" == Jonathan Watterson writes: > > JW> How are you gentlemen. Is any protesting going on in the > JW> Carolinas? > > I dunno. Is it? B-) If not, how about it? > > ~Klepht > > Someone let me know if anyone pick of the ball in SC. I'd like to attend. I'd start something, but I don't live there anymore. But if y'all start something I'll send my family & friends there. -- Jonathan Watterson jonathanjo@mindspring.com http://jonathanjo.home.mindspring.com/ AIM: hrairelil Free Dmitry! http://www.freesklyarov.org/ From zawadzki at yahoo.com Fri Jul 27 04:51:17 2001 From: zawadzki at yahoo.com (mark zawadzki) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: What hypocrisy Message-ID: <20010727115117.56144.qmail@web9602.mail.yahoo.com> More irony - Gao Zhan was arrested/convicted for *copying* publically available documents concerning Taiwan ! They call it spying , the US calls it copyright infringment. The US also got all bent when some business man was arrested for copying plans for a torpedo, although the design is common knowledge as the Russians will sell the torpedo to just about anyone. Moving to Canada soon the way rights are deteriorating here in the US. >Message: 12From: "Kevin" To: Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 >10:33:42 -0700Subject: [free-sklyarov] What >hypocrisyUnbelievable the amount of hypocrisy our ?>government is capable >of.http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010726/ts/us_chin>a_9.html ===== Mark Zawadzki Performance Engineer/DBA/Programmer extraordinaire’Zawadzki@yahoo.com mark.Zawadzki@imedium.com"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winningRobert Cringle (columnist, author, host of "Triumph of the Nerds") __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Jul 27 05:13:12 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [Free-sklyarov-announce] Upcoming regional events; Sklyarov's address; EFF; background material Message-ID: <20010727051312.F4677@zork.net> Here's an announcement message I just sent to the announcement list. ----- Forwarded message from Seth David Schoen ----- Four announcement items: (1) Monday protests; flyer distribution; organizing update. (2) Dmitry Sklyarov's mailing address. (3) EFF meeting planned. (4) DMCA harms reading list. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I have received word that events are planned for Monday, July 30, in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Boston, Chicago, and Minneapolis. The San Francisco event has already been announced here; I've heard about the others via the free-sklyarov list. Of course, other events are possible too. This is not necessarily an exhaustive list. http://freesklyarov.org/ has been carrying the most up-to-date information (although you'll also want to check the regional site or mailing list). Not all of the details for the Monday protests are up at freesklyarov.org yet! I believe there is also an event for Saturday in San Jose, but I don't believe it's been announced to the press, so it may simply target those individuals who happen to be in San Jose that day. In addition, several local groups are doing small-scale ongoing flyer distribution. For example, in San Francisco a team of about six or eight volunteers has been taking turns distributing flyers at the San Francisco Public Library, near City Hall, and at the entrances to public transit stations. Over the course of two days, this has meant that over 1,000 flyers have been handed out (which is small compared to the population of the Bay Area, but we can keep this up and reach several thousands). Even if there is no large-scale public rally or demonstration in your city, you can raise public awareness with small-scale literature distribution. It's more fun if you bring a friend! Many of the discussions about regional event organizing have moved off of the free-sklyarov list and onto various regional mailing lists. If you'd like to be involved with upcoming events in your area, _please join your regional mailing list_ or at least contact the designated regional contact person. The regional mailing lists all have _substantially_ lower traffic than the high-volume free-sklyarov list. It is much easier to keep up with any of these. Again: PLEASE STAY IN TOUCH with your regional group, if you have one. The turnout last Monday was excellent; it can be matched or exceeded, but only if you stay in contact with others in your area. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Alex Fabrikant has obtained a mailing address for Dmitry Sklyarov: Dmitry Sklyarov (note "aka Skylarov") North Las Vegas Dept of Detention/Correction 2222 Constitution Way / North Las Vegas, NV 89030 Note that Sklyarov could be moved at any time, so you may send him letters, but it's not guaranteed that he will receive them. This address was confirmed as valid as of Thursday. Sklyarov would no doubt enjoy receiving your messages of encouragement. It's probably not particularly fruitful to make requests of him (what with his being locked up in jail). Also note that prison officials are permitted to read his mail, as well as to censor certain kinds of correspondence. I don't know whether mail in Russian will be delayed; the prison officials would no doubt be happier if you wrote in English. If he is moved to San Jose, it should be straightforward to get a new address and pass that along. We can all hope that the EFF's discussions today at Acting U.S. Attorney Shapiro's office are successful and that there will be no need for any future mailing address outside of Moscow. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The EFF has a meeting at the U.S. Attorney's office in San Francisco first thing Friday morning (the same office which is the target of independent protests scheduled for Monday, and some actions called for Saturday). http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010725_eff_sklyarov_announce.html You can contact the U.S. Attorney's office to express your opinion (please be polite and so on; you may want to read some of the items on the reading list below). http://www.usaondca.com/ If the EFF makes an announcement, it will be forwarded here. Presumably protests will go ahead through the weekend and on Monday unless Dmitry Sklyarov is actually released. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I've been working on a "reading list on harms from the DMCA"; I forwarded a sample to protest organizers after I heard the good news that our Seattle contingent has arranged a meeting with Senator Maria Cantwell. The question is, when somebody who's not familiar with the DMCA asks "So what's so bad about this? Doesn't it just protect authors and artists? What's the problem?", it can be hard to think of how to answer. Yes, you know that a programmer is in jail -- and that hurts Dmitry Sklyarov and the public, but how does it hurt the public? My list so far includes (1) "The Right to Read" by Richard M. Stallman. http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html (The important thing about this story is that it was written before the DMCA was even proposed!) (2) "Re-evaluating Copyright: The Public Must Prevail" by Richard M. Stallman. http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/reevaluating-copyright.html What is copyright, and what is it meant to accomplish? How can we tell whether it is meeting its goals? This was also written before the DMCA; Stallman argued that copyright law had _already_ gone too far. (3) "What's Wrong With Copy Protection" by John Gilmore. http://www.toad.com/gnu/whatswrong.html (4) My own "What's Wrong With Adobe DRM", an unpublished draft I sent to an Associated Press reporter. Also, John Gilmore's comments on my draft. (5) "An eBook Publisher on why Mueller should free Dmitry Sklyarov" by Brad Templeton. http://www.templetons.com/brad/free.html One of the earliest and most successful on-line commercial publishers, EFF chairman, and supporter of copyright explains some of the difficulties arising from the DMCA and some parts of the industry's move toward DRM. I am looking for other suggestions for good basic documents to help get people up to speed for talking to the public, the press, and politicians about these issues. Other possibilities are some of the USACM documents about the DMCA, and some of Pamela Samuelson's articles. These are mostly more technical and may be difficult for people who are not intimately familiar with the details of copyright law. I'm particularly interested in simple, straightforward explanations of DRM which don't rely heavily on analogies. The trouble for many people is in getting past "this protects copyrights" to "this allows publishers to cripple, or micromanage, consumers' use of technology" (and then "so what?"). ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From jim at media.mit.edu Fri Jul 27 05:28:05 2001 From: jim at media.mit.edu (Jim Youll) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] From freesklyarov.org to ALL LOCAL ORGANIZERS Message-ID: <200107271227.IAA31835@dns1.newmediagroup.com> Hi! Could every city identify one or two people to liaise with us about this stuff? 1. Many of you may have been told (I wish all) that we cannot keep up with what's happening in every city. Rather, we are asking that every city establish a local page somewhere* and send the link to free@freesklyarov.org and we'll be sure to add it. This gives you control over your content, plus a pointer from the site... there will be a shortcut http://freesklyarov.org/seattle/ and, if you are hosting on a box that can handle it, we'll add a DNS record, too: http://seattle.freesklyarov.org/ (need to know the IP address of the box) There are 3 reasons for not hosting the local sites here. (1) the box is just not set up up for mega-multiuser stuff and rather than take the time to make it do that, the time is better spent on the public site, especially since home page hosting is so free/cheap everywhere these days. (2) redundancy. We don't want the whole effort wired in to one point of failure. (3) we don't want to figure out who's in charge everywhere, that's up to you What this means, also, is that if you've got more than one link in a city (a home page, protest photos, a local mailing list) PLEASE PLEASE get together in your city and make *A* page that lists everything in one place, and we'll point to that one, even if the individual projects aren't under one roof. If your local info is not linked from the site, send your URL to free@freesklyarov.org and I'll add it post haste. 2. The "upcoming" section at the top is for links to announcements of rallies, etc... In this case, please DO send announcements of your protests, meetings, whatever and we'll add them to the mini calendar. This is important because it gives a sense of the scope of what's going on, and probably inspires others to stay active. Generally I'd hope the announcement could point back to your city's home page, not to another brand new page... so that you could tell me "SFO is having a protest on monday" and then I just post that, and point it to the SFO home page, and there you go. cheers -- http://www.media.mit.edu/~jim research assistant . software agents group . e-markets sig mit media lab . cambridge, ma Free Dmitry Sklyarov ... http://freesklyarov.org/ From junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu Fri Jul 27 09:33:10 2001 From: junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu (Peter D. Junger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:51:26 EDT." <3B60D72D.D3D228B6@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <200107271633.f6RGXAi08187@samsara.law.cwru.edu> Mickey McGown writes: : : 2600 wasn't selling DeCSS, either And 2600 was not charged with a crime. -- Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH EMAIL: junger@samsara.law.cwru.edu URL: http://samsara.law.cwru.edu NOTE: junger@pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu no longer exists From david at lupercalia.net Fri Jul 27 05:43:03 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DC Scoop? In-Reply-To: <8766cfazqt.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 07:09:56PM -0700 References: <8766cfazqt.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010727084303.C748@lupercalia.net> On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 07:09:56PM -0700, Klepht wrote: > What's the deal with DC? Is there really going to be an event during > the Mueller confirmation hearings? > > We're all dying to know, and this page: > > http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ > > ...is woefully out of date! We have no event planned for the confirmation hearings. -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ The threat to cancel Mac Office 97 is certainly the strongest bargaining point we have, as doing so will do a great deal of harm to Apple immediately. --Ben Waldman, Microsoft manager of Mac Development, in a 6-27-97 email to Bill Gates From junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu Fri Jul 27 09:45:38 2001 From: junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu (Peter D. Junger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Announcement - eBookWeb event: Digital Rights, DMCA and Hac In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 27 Jul 2001 06:12:24." Message-ID: <200107271645.f6RGjc808263@samsara.law.cwru.edu> "Alan Smithee" writes: : Wade, : : This is a most excellent idea and I look forward to participating. : : Might I respectfully suggest, however, that you re-consider your choice of : the word 'Hacker.' : : It is a buzz word that connotes illegality and crime, and to many, : incorrectly frames the debate. : : 'Coder' would be far more neutral and better define the balance of rights at : stake. A ``Coder'' traditionally was someone who took the program that was written by a programmer in a higher level language and converted it to lower level languages or machine code, mechanical functions that are now performed by a computer program. Coders had higher status than key-punch operators, but the word you are looking far is ``Programmmer.'' -- Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH EMAIL: junger@samsara.law.cwru.edu URL: http://samsara.law.cwru.edu NOTE: junger@pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu no longer exists From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Fri Jul 27 05:46:35 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Background Material: The White Paper In-Reply-To: <20010727051312.F4677@zork.net> Message-ID: Several articles I have read have referenced a government "White Paper": Information Infrastructure Task Force, Intellectual Property and the National Information Infrastructure: The Report of the Working Group on Intellectual Property Rights (1995). I would be indebted to anyone providing a source to a copy of this document. James S. Huggins From debug at centras.lt Fri Jul 27 06:03:15 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] substitute for Hacker In-Reply-To: <200107271645.f6RGjc808263@samsara.law.cwru.edu> References: <200107271645.f6RGjc808263@samsara.law.cwru.edu> Message-ID: <12620707729.20010727150315@centras.lt> PDJ> : Might I respectfully suggest, however, that you re-consider your choice of PDJ> : the word 'Hacker.' PDJ> : PDJ> : It is a buzz word that connotes illegality and crime, and to many, PDJ> : incorrectly frames the debate. PDJ> : PDJ> : 'Coder' would be far more neutral and better define the balance of rights at PDJ> : stake. Why not WADER -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From debug at centras.lt Fri Jul 27 06:11:50 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyrights and patents In-Reply-To: <20010727115117.56144.qmail@web9602.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010727115117.56144.qmail@web9602.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5621223665.20010727151150@centras.lt> If you there in america - EACH of you - like your constitutional copyrights i have the only one thing to say - Have your copyrights for yourself and do not exercise them on people who do not have the right to elect american president (those like Sklyarov) -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From declan at well.com Fri Jul 27 06:19:04 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker or Not? In-Reply-To: ; from tabouass@math.uwaterloo.ca on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 02:25:51AM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010727091904.B16863@cluebot.com> On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 02:25:51AM -0400, Tony Abou-Assaleh wrote: > We (or most of us), the computer scientists, programmers, > computer-hobbyists, etc .. are in fact hackers, using the original meaning > of the term hacking that predates computers. > > The media, mainly, has changed the meaning of this word. We can either > encourage the new meaning by using 'hacker' only in the criminal context, > or we can try to preserve the old meaning by using it whenever we can to > refer to people who like to experiment and explore etc. But people who *describe themselves* as hackers are part of this story. Defcon, where Sklyarov was arrested, brags it's the world's largest hacker gathering, 2600, the heretofore most prominent case, calls itself the hacker quarterly, 2600 reps have been involved with the Free Dmitry movement, even going to Ashcroft's press conference, and the hacker underground is adding fuel to these protests. Sorry, you don't get to tell the media ignore these things. -Declan From randy at middlewest.com Fri Jul 27 06:26:30 2001 From: randy at middlewest.com (Randy Rathbun) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Background Material: The White Paper In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200107270826300440.0E573313@64.51.184.34> http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/doc/ipnii/ *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 7/27/01 at 7:46 AM James S. Huggins \(Free Sklyarov\) wrote: >Several articles I have read have referenced a government "White Paper": > > Information Infrastructure Task Force, > Intellectual Property and the National Information Infrastructure: > The Report of the Working Group on Intellectual Property Rights >(1995). > > >I would be indebted to anyone providing a source to a copy of this document. > > >James S. Huggins > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov ----- If Bill Gates had a nickle for every time Windows crashed.... Oh, wait, he does! - posting on slashdot.org From salgak at speakeasy.net Fri Jul 27 06:32:00 2001 From: salgak at speakeasy.net (Keith A. Glass) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker or Not? Message-ID: <200107271332.GAA17030@webmail.speakeasy.net> > ------------ Original Message ----------- > From: Declan McCullagh > Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:19:04 -0400 > But people who *describe themselves* as hackers are part of this story. > Defcon, where Sklyarov was arrested, brags it's the world's largest > hacker gathering, 2600, the heretofore most prominent case, calls > itself the hacker quarterly, 2600 reps have been involved with the > Free Dmitry movement, even going to Ashcroft's press conference, and > the hacker underground is adding fuel to these protests. > > Sorry, you don't get to tell the media ignore these things. True. But the media in general, defines hackers, as a general case, as "nasty nerds who break into computers and do nasty things". It's not the actual definition, but we all know that although we as a community created the word, we don't own it, and don't own the commonly-accepted definition. I hate to be all Washington and such, but it's a matter of spin control. . . "hacker"=bad "programmer"= good At times like this, you have to wonder where the Lone Gunmen are, when we REALLY need them From declan at well.com Fri Jul 27 06:34:25 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker or Not? In-Reply-To: <200107271332.GAA17030@webmail.speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010727093230.01ff7ad0@mail.well.com> At 06:32 AM 7/27/01 -0700, Keith A. Glass wrote: >I hate to be all Washington and such, but it's a matter of spin control. . . Hackerdom is part of this story, like it or not, per my previous message. You can fight over whether Sklyarov should be labeled "hacker" or not, but to say hackers aren't part of the broader Sklyarov story is just plain false. Spin control doesn't equal lying -- except, perhaps, for some congrescritters. >At times like this, you have to wonder where the Lone Gunmen are, when we >REALLY need them Didn't that series get cancelled? I think I panned it in a review. -Declan From salgak at speakeasy.net Fri Jul 27 06:49:00 2001 From: salgak at speakeasy.net (Keith A. Glass) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker or Not? Message-ID: <200107271349.GAA20095@webmail.speakeasy.net> > ------------ Original Message ----------- > From: Declan McCullagh > Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:34:25 -0400 > > At 06:32 AM 7/27/01 -0700, Keith A. Glass wrote: > >I hate to be all Washington and such, but it's a matter of spin control. . > . > > Hackerdom is part of this story, like it or not, per my previous message. > You can fight over whether Sklyarov should be labeled "hacker" or not, but Yes, win the accuracy war, but lose the PR war, and leave Dmitry to rot in jail until some court over-rules the DMCA or 5 years go by. . . Our opponents use loaded words: "Hacker" "pirate" "theft". If we use them as well, popular stereotypes will work against us. To go back to the Vietnam War axiom, to beat the DMCA, we're going to have to win the hearts and minds of the American public. Let's be smart about how we do this. It may be a proud and lonely thing to be a Hacker (or for that matter, a Fan), but claiming such does not advance the agenda. . . > to say hackers aren't part of the broader Sklyarov story is just plain > false. Spin control doesn't equal lying -- except, perhaps, for some > congrescritters. Oh ?? Generally, spin control involves SOME lies, even if just lies by omission. . . > >At times like this, you have to wonder where the Lone Gunmen are, when we > >REALLY need them > Didn't that series get cancelled? I think I panned it in a review. Cancelled for now. Didn't realize you were a media critic as well. From debug at centras.lt Fri Jul 27 06:51:38 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker or Not? In-Reply-To: <200107271332.GAA17030@webmail.speakeasy.net> References: <200107271332.GAA17030@webmail.speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <15523611818.20010727155138@centras.lt> KAG> the media in general, defines hackers, as a general case, as KAG> "nasty nerds who break into computers and do nasty things". KAG> "hacker"=bad "programmer"= good Ok let's talk about two sorts of hackers 1) those who damage public interests (by destroying databases etc) 2) those who do not damage public interests but rather damage usage-control (note that public still can choose whether to use defects of usage-control) -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From proclus at iname.com Fri Jul 27 06:54:39 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Backlash In-Reply-To: <1920850175.20010726191848@centras.lt> Message-ID: <200107271354.f6RDsg207933@moerbeke> On 26 Jul, DeBug wrote: >>> The terms crippled media, controlled content, and controlled usage are >>> great for our cause. The term piracy -- even though we are not >>> copyright violators ourselves -- is harmful. > >>> Of course, "violator" and "infringer" aren't great words either. Any >>> suggestions? Hmm, I've been calling Dmitry a "fair use champion". Although some have attempted to paint him as a dubious hero, there is no such thing as a perfect hero. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > > n> Fair use advocate? Fair user? Constitutional defender? > we could call him raptor of the public and its needs > This is because he grabs needs of the public from original manufacturer > then he satisfies these needs of the public and by doing so he catches > the public in fascination > -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From declan at well.com Fri Jul 27 06:54:40 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker or Not? In-Reply-To: <200107271349.GAA20095@webmail.speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010727095142.0259a750@mail.well.com> At 06:49 AM 7/27/01 -0700, Keith A. Glass wrote: >Yes, win the accuracy war, but lose the PR war, and leave Dmitry to rot in >jail until some court over-rules the DMCA or 5 years go by. . . But the media may cease to treat you as kindly if they realize you are, as you say, intentionally "lying" to them in the form of what you call spin control. Adobe tried spin control, and look at the result in press coverage. > > Didn't that series get cancelled? I think I panned it in a review. > >Cancelled for now. Didn't realize you were a media critic as well. http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,42057,00.html From X-Files to Geek Files by Declan McCullagh (declan@wired.com) 2:00 a.m. Mar. 3, 2001 PST The new X-Files spinoff almost seems destined to flop. It lacks nearly everything that made the original such a hit: Scully, Mulder, shadowy aliens, menacing shapeshifters and the kind of visceral dark drama that lures millions of viewers every Sunday night. But don't rule out Chris Carter's The Lone Gunmen, airing Sunday at 9 p.m. on Fox, just yet. The series veers in a different direction, replacing drama with comedy, FBI agents with maladjusted computer geeks, and alien abductions with toilet humor. About the only things remaining are -- of course -- government conspiracies and the dorky hacker trio who made their debut on a favorite episode of the X-Files, then went on to star in several others. [...] From david.haworth at altavista.net Fri Jul 27 06:57:43 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A reply from amyg@publishers.org Message-ID: <20010727155743.J79@3soft.de> Hi All, I got a reply from Pat Schroeder's personal reply-bot. I think we've seen this one before. Clearly they didn't bother to read the message. :-( I'll cc my reply to this one here too. Dave ----- Forwarded message from Amy Gwiazdowski ----- From: Amy Gwiazdowski To: "'david.haworth@altavista.net'" Subject: A press release on your website Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:26:11 -0400 Dear Mr. Haworth: AAP stands by its press release of July 22 supporting the anticircumvention provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) and commending the Department of Justice for acting on its responsibility to enforce the DMCA in the matter of Dmitry Sklyarov. In response to those who attempt to justify circumventing, or trafficking in devices that circumvent, encryption and other technological measures that protect copyright in the digital environment, AAP urges them to carefully consider how their arguments would apply to precisely the same activities in connection with encryption and other technological measures used to protect privacy in that same environment. Amy Gwiazdowski AAP [My original diatribe snipped for brevity] ----- End forwarded message ----- -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From kfoss at planetpdf.com Fri Jul 27 07:02:35 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Background Material: The White Paper In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Several articles I have read have referenced a government "White Paper": > > Information Infrastructure Task Force, > Intellectual Property and the National Information Infrastructure: > The Report of the Working Group on Intellectual Property Rights >(1995). > >I would be indebted to anyone providing a source to a copy of this document. http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/doc/ipnii/ rgds ~ Kurt -- ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network From david.haworth at altavista.net Fri Jul 27 07:13:24 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: A press release on your website In-Reply-To: <10672D1FF79DD41184A900508B8B3C9A02B980@PUBLISHER1>; from amyg@publishers.org on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 09:26:11AM -0400 References: <10672D1FF79DD41184A900508B8B3C9A02B980@PUBLISHER1> Message-ID: <20010727161323.K79@3soft.de> Dear Ms. Gwiazdowski, Thank you for your prompt reply to my earlier email. However, I think you did not bother to read the message. I was not justifying the circumvention (if any) done by Mr. Sklyarov, I was merely pointing out some inaccuracies in your press release. > AAP stands by its press release of July 22 supporting the anticircumvention > provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) and commending the > Department of Justice for acting on its responsibility to enforce the DMCA > in the matter of Dmitry Sklyarov. If the AAP is willing to stand by an inaccurate press release, even after those inaccuracies have been pointed out, then I don't hold much hope of them producing accurate text books. (http://www.publishers.org/home/press/elinepr.htm) > In response to those who attempt to justify circumventing, or trafficking in > devices that circumvent, encryption and other technological measures that > protect copyright in the digital environment, AAP urges them to carefully > consider how their arguments would apply to precisely the same activities in > connection with encryption and other technological measures used to protect > privacy in that same environment. I did not attempt to justify circumvention, but since you have raised the matter, I'll reply: If I published the mechanism and keys to access my private data, I'd expect someone to read it. That's precisely why it is important to keep these secrets secret. If you don't want the secrets analysed and discussed, you shouldn't publish them for all to see in the form of a program for a personal computer. But then you'd probably wouldn't sell any ebooks. Now please read my original message. Sincerely David Haworth -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From debug at centras.lt Fri Jul 27 07:30:00 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RE: What hypocrisy In-Reply-To: <20010727115117.56144.qmail@web9602.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010727115117.56144.qmail@web9602.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9825913765.20010727163000@centras.lt> Hello mark, Friday, July 27, 2001, 1:51:17 PM, you wrote: mz> More irony - Gao Zhan was arrested/convicted for mz> *copying* publically available documents concerning mz> Taiwan ! They call it spying , the US calls it mz> copyright infringment. mz> The US also got all bent when some business man was mz> arrested for copying plans for a torpedo, although the mz> design is common knowledge as the Russians will sell mz> the torpedo to just about anyone. Nothing to add .... It's funny how usage-control rights can be converted into competition-control rights copyrights-holders would agree to allow consumers to use their products as they like if there was a restriction to buy only from copyrights-holders. Is not this what Adobe wanted to say ? -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org Fri Jul 27 07:43:13 2001 From: free-sklyarov at effector.xenoclast.org (Julian T. J. Midgley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A reply from amyg@publishers.org In-Reply-To: <20010727155743.J79@3soft.de> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, David Haworth wrote: > > Dear Mr. Haworth: > > AAP stands by its press release of July 22 supporting the anticircumvention > provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) and commending the > Department of Justice for acting on its responsibility to enforce the DMCA > in the matter of Dmitry Sklyarov. > > In response to those who attempt to justify circumventing, or trafficking in > devices that circumvent, encryption and other technological measures that > protect copyright in the digital environment, AAP urges them to carefully > consider how their arguments would apply to precisely the same activities in > connection with encryption and other technological measures used to protect > privacy in that same environment. This is just ludicrous. Last time I looked, it was a standing tenet of the security community that secure encryption protocols are best evolved through careful peer review and public scrutiny. The reaction amonsgt cryptographers to someone who successfully circumvents an encryption algorithm is "oh, ****, we screwed that one up, better get back to the drawing board", not "Oh you evil man, quick, let us throw you in jail before your idea gets spread too far!". And to the best of my knowledge, there's no law at all that prevents you trafficking in devices designed to cirumvent encryption. Well done, the AAP, you shot yourselves in the foot quite beautifully with that little analogy. I urge those members of the AAP who have publically stated their opposition to the DMCA to resign their membership (with a press-release to that effect, of course), since it's clear that the AAP still haven't got the message. Julian Midgley -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F From ausage at ausage.com Fri Jul 27 07:47:29 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker or Not? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010727093230.01ff7ad0@mail.well.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010727093230.01ff7ad0@mail.well.com> Message-ID: <01072710472900.07322@frankie> On July 27, 2001 09:34 am, Declan McCullagh wrote: > Hackerdom is part of this story, like it or not, per my previous message. > You can fight over whether Sklyarov should be labeled "hacker" or not, but > to say hackers aren't part of the broader Sklyarov story is just plain > false. Spin control doesn't equal lying -- except, perhaps, for some > congrescritters. I have been a "hacker" for over 35 years, since I was 16 years old. I have modified the kernel of more than one operating system, been involved in developing an debugging new communications protocols, was coding "database" software before the word has been coined, and have pernertrated the security of many systems, including one major financial institution. I have never broken any laws doing any of this or ever acted with the necessary authority. But yes I am a hacker, and proud of it. You can quote me Declan. A hacker is someone with a need to know how something works. A hacker is someone with a need to make it work better. A hacker is someone, who went the Vendor says, "Our machines can't do that!" proves them wrong. It is up to talented and aware writers like you Declan to inform the world that hackerdom is not composed of l33t h4k0z. Hackerdom is composed of the guys who can read the blinking lights, whistle data at 2400 baud, make your computer run 3 times faster, and smell a penetration attempt 2 days before it happens. Hackerdom is the people who invented operation systems, who built the internet, who created the world wide web, who gave us free software (20 years before RMS founded FSF, and he is one l33t h4x0r). Hackerdom gave us private encryption that the NSA can't break. Hackerdom gave us a way to recovery that file you accidently deleted. Hackerdom wrote the first AV software. Hackerdom invented windows and just about everything else that came out of PARC. When I look at the names and accomplishments in hackerdom, from Alan Turing to Rear Adm Grace Hopper to Richard Stallman to Steve Wozniac to Dimitry Sklyarov I am humbled and proud to be able to name myself "HACKER". -- Andrew Lawrence Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 From adunston at jetstream.com Fri Jul 27 07:50:03 2001 From: adunston at jetstream.com (Adrian Dunston) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyrights and patents Message-ID: >From: DeBug [mailto:debug@centras.lt] >If you there in america - EACH of you - like your >constitutional copyrights i have the only one thing >to say - Have your copyrights for yourself and do >not exercise them on people who do not have the right >to elect american president (those like Sklyarov) I agree with you entirely. While my paychecks (and many of our paychecks) may come from a company whose profit is based on international patents and copyrights, I would definitely support stopping the US from trying to enforce its laws overseas (or create similar international laws). -Adrian P. Dunston __ (sourceCode == freeSpeech) //Support the EFF. http://www.x-omega.com/shirtdept From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Fri Jul 27 07:54:11 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: UK Free-Sklyarov Mailing List References: <3B60000B.6573A551@sheffield.ac.uk> <20010726112000.C14917@zork.net> Message-ID: <04b801c116ac$02b8b550$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, Seth David Schoen! > Everyone who has spoken to or corresponded with Oksana Sklyarov, Oksana Sklyarova -- she's a woman. - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From jhclouse at juno.com Fri Jul 27 08:15:32 2001 From: jhclouse at juno.com (Jason H Clouse) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Backlash Message-ID: <20010727.111532.-593143.0.jhclouse@juno.com> <> I do. The judge heard the words "pirates" and "hacker" and went nuts. He certainly didn't rule on the merits of the case. J ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From jtjm at xenoclast.org Fri Jul 27 08:14:05 2001 From: jtjm at xenoclast.org (Julian T. J. Midgley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A reply from amyg@publishers.org Message-ID: Please note that in my response below, I chose deliberately to ignore my belief that it is practically impossible to create a perfectly secure copyright protection mechanism. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:10:09 +0100 (BST) From: Julian T. J. Midgley To: Amy Gwiazdowski Subject: Your analogy with encryption mechanisms > > In response to those who attempt to justify circumventing, or trafficking in > devices that circumvent, encryption and other technological measures that > protect copyright in the digital environment, AAP urges them to carefully > consider how their arguments would apply to precisely the same activities in > connection with encryption and other technological measures used to protect > privacy in that same environment. Dear Ms Gwiazdowski, I am afraid you choose a very poor analogy indeed. As those who work in the computer security community are very well aware, it is standard practice to encourage people to analyse and attempt to circumvent encryption algorithms. Careful peer review is the only way to ensure that an encryption algorithm is in fact secure. On those occasions (and there have been many of them), when researchers, crackers or others have discovered bugs in encryption algorithms that allow them to be circumvented, it is usual practice for the bugs to be announced publically, in order that: a) Those using the algorithm know that it is not secure, and that they should therefore no longer trust it. b) Those who created the algorithm can revisit it, and improve it such that the bug no longer exists. In some cases, those who announce the bug in the algorithm also publish code that can be used to circumvent it. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever been arrested for writing such code, nor would security researchers wish anyone to be. I am not even aware of a law under which such a person could possibly be arrested (even if they were to sell their encryption circumvention mechanism for profit). If those who announce weaknesses in cryptographic protocols and algorithms to the world were to be subject to trial and imprisonment in the same way that those who announce weaknesses in copyright protection mechanisms can be, then I can guarantee that we would have nothing but weak and buggy encryption technology. Similarly, as someone considering publishing books in electronic format, I should like to know that there are free and open forums for the discussion of bugs in copyright protection mechanisms, so that when I choose to publish a book, I can use a product that is known to be secure. If instead, those who discuss the flaws in copyright protection mechanisms stand to be imprisoned for so doing (or are threatened with legal action as Professor Felten was in the SDMI case), then it is virtually certain that none of the protection mechanisms on the market will be secure. Furthermore the DMCA threatens the right to fair-use of copyrighted material by allowing publishers to use copyright protection mechanisms that prevent fair use, and forbidding others from creating software that enables fair use of those documents. The AAP's stance on the DMCA harms the authors of electronic books, rather than assisting them, and I look forward to the AAP revising its opinions (I hope also that the AAP will cease to imply that its view is that of its members, since several of these members have now publically stated their opposition to the DMCA, as you must be aware). Regards, Julian Midgley -- Julian T. J. Midgley BA (Cantab) http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F From debug at centras.lt Fri Jul 27 08:15:57 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyrights and patents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10528670877.20010727171557@centras.lt> AD> I would definitely support stopping the US from AD> trying to enforce its laws overseas (or create similar international laws). I would put it in other way: I would definitely support stopping the US from trying to enforce its laws on those who is not US citizens. I have nothing against applying US laws in my country for US citizens but only for US citizens. -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Fri Jul 27 08:14:55 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Central Clearinghouse References: Message-ID: <052e01c116ae$ea8e00e0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi! Information of Moscow actions: ( www.boycottadobe.com haven't yet published :( ) > 1) An email alias ("calendar@freesklyarov.org"?) which can be CC'd for > announcements, to make sure you all don't have to wade through > loads of crap to get to the nuggets. hscool@netclub.ru > 2) A single page with calendar info, which can be linked to from other > Web sites ("Go to a protest in your town or village"). http://www.porsche.ru/dmitry/ - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From salgak at speakeasy.net Fri Jul 27 08:18:00 2001 From: salgak at speakeasy.net (Keith A. Glass) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker or Not? Message-ID: <200107271518.IAA08177@webmail.speakeasy.net> > ------------ Original Message ----------- > From: Andrew Lawrence > Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:47:29 -0400 > > On July 27, 2001 09:34 am, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > Hackerdom is part of this story, like it or not, per my previous > message. > > You can fight over whether Sklyarov should be labeled "hacker" or not, > but > > to say hackers aren't part of the broader Sklyarov story is just plain > > false. Spin control doesn't equal lying -- except, perhaps, for some > > congrescritters. > > I have been a "hacker" for over 35 years, since I was 16 years old. I have > modified the kernel of more than one operating system, been involved in > developing an debugging new communications protocols, was coding "database" > software before the word has been coined, and have pernertrated the > security of many systems, including one major financial institution. The word I'd use here is "old-school hacker". . . as one who programmed via punchtape on a TTY via a 110-baud acoustic coupler modem, and thought punchcards were a good innovation, I have a minor right to call myself one as well > I have never broken any laws doing any of this or ever acted with the > necessary authority. But yes I am a hacker, and proud of it. You can quote > me Declan. > > A hacker is someone with a need to know how something works. A hacker is > someone with a need to make it work better. A hacker is someone, who went > the Vendor says, "Our machines can't do that!" proves them wrong. > > It is up to talented and aware writers like you Declan to inform the world > that hackerdom is not composed of l33t h4k0z. Who have managed to get the generally-accepted popular definition of "hacker" pointed directly at them. . . damn the script kiddies, and more importantly, the mass media, for corrupting, to the general public, the old and honorable title of "hacker". . . > Hackerdom gave us private encryption that the NSA can't break. We hope. As if No Such Agency would let us know if they COULD crack it... > Hackerdom gave us a way to recovery that file you accidently deleted. > Hackerdom wrote the first AV software. And, alas, a hacker also generated the NEED for AV software. . . which is the image we having to fight. . . From sfavorite at worldnet.att.net Fri Jul 27 08:32:07 2001 From: sfavorite at worldnet.att.net (Scot Favorite) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyrights and patents In-Reply-To: <10528670877.20010727171557@centras.lt> Message-ID: The US should only apply its laws in this country! If we try to apply our laws outside of this country we have to apply all of them and this just doesn't work. Scot -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of DeBug Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 11:16 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re[2]: [free-sklyarov] Copyrights and patents AD> I would definitely support stopping the US from AD> trying to enforce its laws overseas (or create similar international laws). I would put it in other way: I would definitely support stopping the US from trying to enforce its laws on those who is not US citizens. I have nothing against applying US laws in my country for US citizens but only for US citizens. -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Fri Jul 27 08:38:59 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker or Not? References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010727093230.01ff7ad0@mail.well.com> <01072710472900.07322@frankie> Message-ID: <055001c116b2$47cad730$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, Andrew! > It is up to talented and aware writers like you Declan to inform the world > that hackerdom is not composed of l33t h4k0z. > Hackerdom is composed of the guys who can read the blinking lights, whistle > data at 2400 baud, make your computer run 3 times faster, and smell a > penetration attempt 2 days before it happens. I agree with your position and against misuse of the word "hacker" by mass media. I have translated esr's "Helping Hacker Culture Grow" message: http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/Appendix-C.html to the Russian language. But I am against of risking Dmitry freedom for teaching the world the correct use of the term "hacker" just now. Its not for hackers to pay too much attention for identificator, risking the whole program to do the Wrong Thing: http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/Wrong-Thing.html Computer fellows must help each other, no matter, who of them is called "hacker", and who is not. > When I look at the names and accomplishments in hackerdom, from Alan Turing > to Rear Adm Grace Hopper to Richard Stallman to Steve Wozniac to Dimitry > Sklyarov I am humbled and proud to be able to name myself "HACKER". I never heard Dmitry told about himself "hacker". Never heard he wanted someone this to be told, especially in public mailing lists. Thats why I avoid of useing this term to Dmitry. Dmitry is computer security specialist, that study mathemetics and computer science the whole his life and never wanted to do something illegal. If mass media publish him as a "hacker", the message will go wrong. You know this from computeing -- the same constant or message means different things for different device. /dev/J_Random_Newspaper_Reader can't accept information, you want to transmit, if you use "hacker" message. You must translate from computer speech to mass media speach first. Hacker isn't like "murder" -- the label, that you put on someone, who don't want to be labeled. - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From smb23 at csufresno.edu Fri Jul 27 08:48:24 2001 From: smb23 at csufresno.edu (Steve M Bibayoff) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Monday, another place? Message-ID: <7b7ea7cbfc.7cbfc7b7ea@scccd.org> I know the protest on Monday has been plannned for the federal building, I just wanted to bring up a second place that also might wanted to be visited. I beleive people should also be protesting outside of Diane Feinstein office. She has one in SF also. All CA offices: http://www.senate.gov/~feinstein/california_offices.html This may force her to speak directly to us, instead of through media bites that are outright false. I don't think we could change her mind, considering all the money she has taken from companies that had bought this law, but it may get other politicians to really look over the DMCA and might actually considering a support of repealing before they too are protested. We have allready planned a protest in LA in front of her office. If we could get all four offices, it will be a bigger impact. I don't think all the protests should be moved, but maybe a smallish group could break off during or even after the main protest to head her way. Just a thought, trying to gauge peoples feelings on this. Steve From debug at centras.lt Fri Jul 27 08:57:46 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyrights and patents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2631180714.20010727175746@centras.lt> SF> The US should only apply its laws in this country! SF> If we try to apply our laws outside of this country SF> we have to apply all of them and this just doesn't work. In the age of globalization borders are not just geographical ones So i still insist to draw the border on citizenship basis, otherwise you do allow american citizens abroad to act as they like (let's say hack in the worst sence of the word) -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From ausage at ausage.com Fri Jul 27 09:20:27 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker or Not? In-Reply-To: <055001c116b2$47cad730$0100a8c0@sharhan> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010727093230.01ff7ad0@mail.well.com> <01072710472900.07322@frankie> <055001c116b2$47cad730$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: <01072712202701.07322@frankie> > You know this from computeing -- the same constant > or message means different things for different device. > /dev/J_Random_Newspaper_Reader can't accept > information, you want to transmit, if you use "hacker" > message. You must translate from computer > speech to mass media speach first. Yes I agree with you there. My ranting and ravings where to impress on Declan how much this term has become misused. If you thought I as was trying to force that label on Dimitry, I apologize. That was not my intent. -- Andrew Lawrence Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 From tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca Fri Jul 27 09:27:06 2001 From: tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker or Not? In-Reply-To: <055001c116b2$47cad730$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: Dmitry might be a photographer. If he is, would it benefit us to refer to him as a photographer? very unlikely. Similarly, the fact that he might be (and probably is) a hacker, does not imply that we should refer to him as a hacker. My original comment was regarding the general use of 'hacker'. That we should not enforce the negative image of the term in our speech and writing. I was NOT suggesting that we should stick it everywhere we can just for the sake of using the word. I think we all agree (at least in this thread) that we should try to preserve the good meaning of 'hacker', and that calling Dmitry a 'hacker' is not the best way to go about it. TAA ----------------------------------------------------- Tony Abou-Assaleh Graduate Student, Department of Computer Science University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, Canada, N2L 3G1 Office: DC2503 Phone: (519) 888-4567 Ext. 3399 Email: taa@acm.org -----------------------[THE END]--------------------- From mkbilbo at cdcla.com Fri Jul 27 09:32:42 2001 From: mkbilbo at cdcla.com (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] No more aping around! References: <2631180714.20010727175746@centras.lt> Message-ID: <00e801c116b9$c25166c0$3088d790@tti.com> Check out the CNet article at: http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1004-200-6674297.html Apparently 20th Century Fox has decided that the DMCA means they can start threatening early, often, and push ISPs into killing user accounts for showing pretty much *any* kind of trailer or clip. In the grand scheme of things, I'm only one ticket and one movie goer but I am NOT going to see their ape movie. If they want to "protect" it from me so badly, well, they win. I'll not violate their copyright by making unauthorized copies with my eyes... Mark From jono at microshaft.org Fri Jul 27 09:35:33 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW: FC: Copyright wars: Cops nab 14-year old, librarians as terrorists] Message-ID: <20010727093533.L26770@networkcommand.com> You might want to look at this: ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- X-Sender: declan@mail.well.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 20:02:35 -0400 To: politech@politechbot.com From: Declan McCullagh Subject: FC: Copyright wars: Cops nab 14-year old, librarians as terrorists Precedence: bulk Reply-To: declan@well.com X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ X-Author: Declan McCullagh is at http://www.mccullagh.org/ X-News-Site: Cluebot is at http://www.cluebot.com/ http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/asia-pacific/newsid_1333000/1333378.stm >The authorities in Hong Kong have arrested a 14-year-old boy for allegedly >allowing people to download pirated pop songs free of charge on the Internet. http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-201-6545588-0.html >...librarians are finding themselves the subject of rhetoric usually >reserved for terrorists or revolutionaries. "They've got their radical >factions, like the Ruby Ridge or Waco types," who want to share all >content for free, said Judith Platt, a spokeswoman for the Association of >American Publishers. Andy Ringsmuth forwards this, and says: http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1004-200-6674297.html?tag=tp_pr >Declan, seems like ISPs are bowing to pressure from the MPAA and RIAA >pertaining to file sharing using services such as Napster, Aimster and >Gnutella. >Never mind that all these services can and are used for perfectly legit >file sharing activities. http://www.vny.com/cf/News/upidetail.cfm?QID=205915 >WASHINGTON, July 25 (UPI) -- The FBI served multiple search warrants >nationwide Wednesday in an ongoing investigation of Internet-based >software piracy, the bureau's Washington Field Office said. The search >warrants targeted "file transfer protocol," or FTP, sites in at least nine >states. http://www.taipeitimes.com/news/2001/07/26/story/0000095869 >INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY: Instead of setting up large production >facilities, makers of bootleg films are working out of small shops to >minimize losses in case of a bust ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- End forwarded message ----- From ausage at ausage.com Fri Jul 27 09:34:45 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] No more aping around! In-Reply-To: <00e801c116b9$c25166c0$3088d790@tti.com> References: <2631180714.20010727175746@centras.lt> <00e801c116b9$c25166c0$3088d790@tti.com> Message-ID: <01072712344502.07322@frankie> On July 27, 2001 12:32 pm, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: > Check out the CNet article at: > > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1004-200-6674297.html > > Apparently 20th Century Fox has decided that the DMCA means they can start > threatening early, often, and push ISPs into killing user accounts for > showing pretty much *any* kind of trailer or clip. Isn't showing a move clip "fair use"????? > In the grand scheme of things, I'm only one ticket and one movie goer but I > am NOT going to see their ape movie. We're all busy trying to help Dimitry. Perhpas the Napsterites and Gnutella's can get together and start their own protests. Then join us when Dimitry's free for the big push. From rabbi at quickie.net Fri Jul 27 09:40:26 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker or Not? In-Reply-To: <20010727091904.B16863@cluebot.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote: > But people who *describe themselves* as hackers are part of this story. > Defcon, where Sklyarov was arrested, brags it's the world's largest > hacker gathering, 2600, the heretofore most prominent case, calls > itself the hacker quarterly, 2600 reps have been involved with the > Free Dmitry movement, even going to Ashcroft's press conference, and > the hacker underground is adding fuel to these protests. FYI, you are a tad confused about the Ashcroft press conference. There were two "activists" handing out information at the press conference; one of them happened to be a 2600 member. This wasn't a 2600-sponsored event. Cronology: 1) John Young discovers the press conference is occuring, emails the cypherpunks list. 2) Pablos reads this, emails the dmitry-plan list. 3) I declare that we should leaflet the conference. 4) Macki volunteers to write the letter to Ashcroft. 5) Shari Steele works on the letter, signs it. 6) Macki and I show up, almost get in to the actual conference, and when we're turned away, distribute information to the press after the conference. You could just as easily say this was a Shmoo action, a Cypherpunk action, an EFF action, or a CryptoRights Foundation action as you could say it was a 2600 action. I call it a "Free Dmitry" action. -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From declan at well.com Fri Jul 27 09:39:58 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker or Not? In-Reply-To: References: <20010727091904.B16863@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010727123905.020984f0@mail.well.com> At 09:40 AM 7/27/01 -0700, Len Sassaman wrote: > > But people who *describe themselves* as hackers are part of this story. > > Defcon, where Sklyarov was arrested, brags it's the world's largest > > hacker gathering, 2600, the heretofore most prominent case, calls > > itself the hacker quarterly, 2600 reps have been involved with the > > Free Dmitry movement, even going to Ashcroft's press conference, and > > the hacker underground is adding fuel to these protests. > >FYI, you are a tad confused about the Ashcroft press conference. There >were two "activists" handing out information at the press conference; one >of them happened to be a 2600 member. This wasn't a 2600-sponsored event. Never said they were. I said "2600 reps have been involved... even going to Ashcroft's press conferences." By that I meant Macki, of course. Reread what I wrote. -Declan From jstyre at jstyre.com Fri Jul 27 09:46:52 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] pointless quip In-Reply-To: <20010727034411.S14917@zork.net> References: <20010726195029.B8993@cluebot.com> <20010726120033.K722@zork.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010726134636.00b1aa78@earthlink.net> <20010726135533.W14917@zork.net> <20010726195029.B8993@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010727093842.00b23b30@earthlink.net> At 03:44 AM 7/27/2001 -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote: >Declan McCullagh writes: > > > I think Nick's idea is he won't "question" congresscritters who pass > > really bad laws for their "speech or debate," but for their votes. :) > >It seems that the clause is interpreted as applying to votes as well; >if Jim isn't too busy, maybe he can explain why. I think this is going >off-topic, though. Keeping it short: "The Speech or Debate Clause, adopted by the Constitutional Convention without debate or opposition, 19 finds its roots in the conflict between Parliament and the Crown culminating in the Glorious Revolution of 1688 and the English Bill of Rights of 1689. 20 Drawing upon this history, we concluded in United States v. Johnson, supra, at 181, that the purpose of this clause was "to prevent intimidation [of legislators] by the executive and accountability before a possibly hostile judiciary." Although the clause sprang from a fear of seditious libel actions instituted by the Crown to punish unfavorable speeches made in Parliament, 21 we have held that it would be a "narrow view" to confine the protection of the Speech or Debate Clause to words spoken in debate. Committee reports, resolutions, and the act of voting are equally covered, as are "things generally done in a session of the House by one of its members in relation to the business before it." Kilbourn v. Thompson, supra, at 204. Furthermore, the clause not only provides a [395 U.S. 486, 503] defense on the merits but also protects a legislator from the burden of defending himself. Dombrowski v. Eastland, supra, at 85; see Tenney v. Brandhove, supra, at 377." Powell v. McCormack, 395 U.S. 486 (1969) http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=395&invol=486 -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com Fri Jul 27 09:50:38 2001 From: SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com (Rob McGee) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What is the Russian gov't doing? Message-ID: <19117ED62706D511810C0090277E1379D094A1@mail2.bzznet.net> Sorry if I have missed this detail, but I haven't seen anything about what the Russian gov't is doing about this since the early days, when some list members had finally gotten through to the SFO Russian Consul. I would think they would be as outraged as we are! This is a significant issue of national sovereignty, and of the safety of Russian nationals abroad. Clearly they are not safe in the USA. But this issue does not seem to have captured the interest of high-ranking Russian gov't officials (or if it has, it hasn't been posted on this list.) While I suppose in today's geopolitics, Russia isn't on a par with the USA (nukes notwithstanding, because nobody wants to use them), they might be able to help somewhat. What a glorious opportunity to embarrass Uncle Sam -- the USSR would have made the most of it. Yes, it may not be in the interests of today's Russia to embarrass the USA. But effective diplomacy is all about veiled threats which are often only bluffs. Does anyone know if any of this is going on? How about our Russian contingent on the list: have any of you tried to contact your elected officials? If so, what are they saying about this? Similarly, how is this matter playing in the Russian media? Is it getting ignored over there like it is here? I looked at Pravda last week and The Moscow Times this week, and it really didn't seem to be getting any more coverage than in the New York Times. If the Russian media are going to give this thing more attention, they could possibly create enough of a ground swell which would force Putin to act. I'm not familiar with Russian politics, but I think almost any gov't will respond to massive grass-roots concerns, at least in some fashion. And since the enemy of the people in this case is external rather than the Russian gov't itself, I wouldn't think their response would be repressive. There are prize-winning human interest stories just waiting to be written about the young Sklyarov family. Interviews with Oksana holding the baby, maybe a question to the toddler about how much he misses Papa. Tug at heart strings, ratings will skyrocket! How about the friendly reporter helping Oksana try to get a telephone call in to Dmitri -- and then to Putin? Great stuff. Rob - /dev/rob0 -- this address for list mail only; "echo ebo0@ehaobk.ab | rot13" From rabbi at quickie.net Fri Jul 27 09:52:01 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker or Not? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010727123905.020984f0@mail.well.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote: > At 09:40 AM 7/27/01 -0700, Len Sassaman wrote: > > > But people who *describe themselves* as hackers are part of this story. > > > Defcon, where Sklyarov was arrested, brags it's the world's largest > > > hacker gathering, 2600, the heretofore most prominent case, calls > > > itself the hacker quarterly, 2600 reps have been involved with the > > > Free Dmitry movement, even going to Ashcroft's press conference, and > > > the hacker underground is adding fuel to these protests. > > > >FYI, you are a tad confused about the Ashcroft press conference. There > >were two "activists" handing out information at the press conference; one > >of them happened to be a 2600 member. This wasn't a 2600-sponsored event. > > Never said they were. I said "2600 reps have been involved... even going to > Ashcroft's press conferences." By that I meant Macki, of course. Reread > what I wrote. I read what you wrote, and I read your original story. The implication is that there was some sort of official 2600 involvment in that action. I don't know if Macki considers himself an official representative of 2600 every time he appears in public, but I know that the first time 2600 was mentioned in conjunction with this event was in your article. I'll let Macki say whether or not he was wearing his 2600 hat during the press conference, but for what it's worth, Macki and I both mentioned that we were present on behalf of the EFF. Macki noted an affiliation with Indymedia. No mention was made of 2600. -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From proclus at iname.com Fri Jul 27 10:02:29 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (Michael L. Love) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology Poll References: Message-ID: <3B619EA5.1070604@iname.com> Thanks for this good idea, and it will be interesting to see the results. It will be useful to standardize, but it will also be helpful to have a glossary of helpful terminology that can be creatively used according to the needs of the situation. Incidentally, GNU-Darwin has been covering the situation for 10 days, and we supported the boycott. We provide hundreds of software downloads to the Darwin and Mac OSX communities, and we get thousands of page views every day. We have not had a single complaint about the boycott or the FREE Dmitry coverage, so it appears that we are reaching a broad base of support. Prospects: hopeful. It seems to me that through the combined efforts of everyone on this list, we should be able to marginalize the DMCA supporters, and restore freedom. I just wish that there was something more immediate that we could do to FREE Dmitry right now. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ Izel Sulam wrote: > An effort is underfoot to standardize upon a counter-term which will combat > the corporate-sanctioned, misleading term of "copy protected media". > > Our chosen counter-term must better describe the essence of > cryptographically encapsulated media, and the undesirable consequences > thereof, such as loss of fair use rights, pay-per-play schemes, loss of > customer privacy, etc. > > I have prepared a quick poll consisting of suggestions for counter-terms. > > You can vote for as few or as many counter-terms as you like, but you can > cast only a single combined vote from any IP address. This is intended to > minimize attempts at ballot-stuffing. > > http://izel.sulam.com/antidmca/counter-terminology.html > > Thanks, > - izel > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From mickeym at mindspring.com Fri Jul 27 10:03:51 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (mickey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] No more aping around! References: <2631180714.20010727175746@centras.lt> <00e801c116b9$c25166c0$3088d790@tti.com> <01072712344502.07322@frankie> Message-ID: <3B619EF7.4A1F3432@mindspring.com> The letter specifically exempts their trailers released for advertisment: "The posting and/or dissemination of unauthorized copies/recordings of all or part of a copyrighted film on the Internet (excluding trailers authorized and licensed for such use) infringes the copyrights in both the motion picture and the soundtrack." The "fair use clip" is a pre-DMCA way of thinking...naughty,naughty. To make a review or give criticism, maybe pantomime is still fair. mickeym Andrew Lawrence wrote: > On July 27, 2001 12:32 pm, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: > > Check out the CNet article at: > > > > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1004-200-6674297.html > > > > Apparently 20th Century Fox has decided that the DMCA means they can start > > threatening early, often, and push ISPs into killing user accounts for > > showing pretty much *any* kind of trailer or clip. > > Isn't showing a move clip "fair use"????? > > > In the grand scheme of things, I'm only one ticket and one movie goer but I > > am NOT going to see their ape movie. > > We're all busy trying to help Dimitry. Perhpas the Napsterites and > Gnutella's can get together and start their own protests. Then join us when > Dimitry's free for the big push. > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From declan at well.com Fri Jul 27 10:03:51 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker or Not? In-Reply-To: <01072712202701.07322@frankie>; from ausage@ausage.com on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 12:20:27PM -0400 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010727093230.01ff7ad0@mail.well.com> <01072710472900.07322@frankie> <055001c116b2$47cad730$0100a8c0@sharhan> <01072712202701.07322@frankie> Message-ID: <20010727130351.B20100@cluebot.com> On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 12:20:27PM -0400, Andrew Lawrence wrote: > Yes I agree with you there. My ranting and ravings where to impress on Declan > how much this term has become misused. If you thought I as was trying to > force that label on Dimitry, I apologize. That was not my intent. I'm familiar with the debates. I've been on the Internet since 1988 and ran a BBS before that. I've written assembly code and machine code, invented a cable descrambler when I was in high school (circumventing content protection mechanisms, I think the phrase is), written a shell, have been the sysadmin for half a dozen websites, invented an interpreted programming language, co-authored an IETF Internet Draft and an article in CACM. I may not be a fulltime programmer like some folks here, but I am a geek and perhaps a hacker, defined properly. You folks may want to add "why Dmitry is/is not a hacker" to a FAQ. -Declan From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Fri Jul 27 10:09:21 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacker or Not? References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010727093230.01ff7ad0@mail.well.com> <01072710472900.07322@frankie> <055001c116b2$47cad730$0100a8c0@sharhan> <01072712202701.07322@frankie> Message-ID: <069801c116be$e5079040$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, Andrew! > Yes I agree with you there. My ranting and ravings where to impress on Declan > how much this term has become misused. If you thought I as was trying to > force that label on Dimitry, I apologize. That was not my intent. Save my e-mail. If you want to make some actions in Moscow for clearing the term "hacker" -- press-conference, public meeting, show, etc., for restoreing its original noble meaning -- you can be sure of our full support. We need: 1. Call press to stop present malicious criminals and script kiddies as "hackers". 2. To describe, what the word "hacker" really means, by showing the best people of hackerdom. But only *after* Dmitry case. If you aim two great goals at one time, its risk not to achieve any of them. I'm in hackerdom since 1984, when there were no personal computers in Russia. My mother used punch cards, my teacher self-made computer, that he sold with soldering iron, not by $$s and srewdriver, I used programming calculator with postfix notation. But thats all drives us from our main aim -- to free Dmitry. And global strategy -- repeal the DMCA. - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Fri Jul 27 10:22:12 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] PGP: Another bad thing about DMCA Message-ID: <06ac01c116c0$b0374a70$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, All! One clever Russian activist and linuxoid, Anton, said another bad thing, that can happen under DMCA: We have PGP sources to study and find out security. But DMCA fights our right to break security, no matter, it is hard-coded in binary files or distributed in open-source form. If DMCA will survive, study of PGP (or other open-source encryption software) code or showing its faults can be prosecuted by FBI. :-/ Thats just another reason why we must put DMCA down. - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu Fri Jul 27 10:32:24 2001 From: cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] freesklyarov.org Message-ID: with regard to the "main calendar page" request from freesklyarov. we're doing all we can here just to keep things up-to-date. we've been trying to get local groups to manage their own local info pages, but they seem to enjoy filling them with out-of-date information, and instead of emailing free@freesklyarov.org or press@freesklyarov with updates, they mail free-sklyarov@zork.net, which has enough traffic to drown hannibal's elephants in. *please* help us out! freesklyarov.org regards its mission as being a *portal* to relevant information, not creating it on its own, as we simply can't keep up otherwise. If you'd like to see a calendar page, feel free to create it, host it on your machine, and send us a pointer. we'd be glad to link to it. --s Indonesia non-violent protest Milosevic algorithm UKUSA for Dummies SSBN 743 supercomputer Sudan Honduras mustard AES SEAL Team 6 Albanian ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian ) -- "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970, minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4. -- [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/] #!/usr/bin/perl -w # 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz # MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout # arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order $_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5; $_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d= unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d >>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9 ,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t ^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271)) [$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval From cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu Fri Jul 27 10:35:25 2001 From: cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: lots of updates (fwd) Message-ID: see below message from jim (webmaster at freesklyarov.org). if someone can point us at good groupware for managing a shared calendar, that would work too. --s ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:30:38 -0400 From: Jim Youll To: C. Scott Ananian Subject: Re: lots of updates Is there an available calendar we can link to that has public read/write and overlord-quality controls too... From jim at media.mit.edu Fri Jul 27 10:48:39 2001 From: jim at media.mit.edu (Jim Youll) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] freesklyarov.org Clearinghouse and HELP WANTED Message-ID: <200107271747.NAA00542@dns1.newmediagroup.com> Thanks for your suggestions,. Yes, I (we, though 'we' is a very small number) cannot do a very good job of condensing the ist traffic, though that is a tasks that's key to making the site work, so any FOCUSED info we can get from those who have it (as concise and ready to go as possible) is a huge help. mailto:calendar@freesklyarov.org -- for calendar announcements -- now exists. at the moment all this gets you is a link at the top with the other cities that are doing events that day. we are looking for suggestions about an external calendar that would work well enough for scheduling, that we can then just link prominently. We prefer to link to the city's top page, which should have its own upcoming events PROMINENTLY dispalayed near the top, and please, a link back to www.freesklyarov.org and/or == HELP WANTED == calendar editor for freesklyarov.org Job description: receive messages from the field and add them to the central calendar. Must possess good organizational skills, HTML and so on, reasonable aesthetic sensibility. Pay: zilch, zero, nada Each city really needs a canonical page and someone on the ground in that place to take care of it. This saves ~2 steps in getting things online fast from where they are happening and spreads out the server load to where it's wanted. some of these things will take time to get right but we're moving as fast as practicable. otoh if he's out before we get them done, all the better. i hope that one thing that is working right about the site is that it tries to move at a correct pace, not too fast but fast enough. >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net >From: Klepht >Organization: Eleutheria >Date: 26 Jul 2001 19:07:04 -0700 >Subject: [free-sklyarov] Central Clearinghouse > >Hey, folks: > >So, I think one of the key success factors for 7/23's organization >was having a central list of all events. The original was hosted on >eff.org, and I believe it was moved over to boycottadobe.com. > >It seems like the folk(s) doing freesklyarov.org are doing a _great_ >job keeping that site up to date with events, but it'd be nice to make >sure that we let people know _one_ clearinghouse for events and >locations. > >So, two things I'd suggest: > >1) An email alias ("calendar@freesklyarov.org"?) which can be CC'd for > announcements, to make sure you all don't have to wade through > loads of crap to get to the nuggets. > >2) A single page with calendar info, which can be linked to from other > Web sites ("Go to a protest in your town or village"). > >OK, that's my spiel. > >~Klepht > >-- -- http://www.media.mit.edu/~jim research assistant . software agents group . e-markets sig mit media lab . cambridge, ma Free Dmitry Sklyarov ... http://freesklyarov.org/ From cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu Fri Jul 27 10:50:33 2001 From: cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] calendar editor volunteer? Message-ID: we over at freesklyarov.org had another brain-wave: maybe asking for a pre-made calendar page or a webapp is too much. if we just had a volunteer to be *calendar editor* we could just start bouncing stuff to calendar@freesklyarov.org and we'd give them an account and they could host the calendar here and edit it themselves. volunteers, anyone? --s spy global action network shotgun UKUSA Secretary COBRA JUDY IDEA United Nations RNC Chechnya SSBN 743 Serbian Sigint Mk 48 Soviet ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian ) -- "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970, minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4. -- [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/] #!/usr/bin/perl -w # 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz # MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout # arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order $_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5; $_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d= unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d >>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9 ,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t ^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271)) [$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Jul 27 10:50:58 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: UK Free-Sklyarov Mailing List In-Reply-To: <04b801c116ac$02b8b550$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Ilya V. Vasilyev wrote: > Hi, Seth David Schoen! > > Everyone who has spoken to or corresponded with Oksana Sklyarov, > Oksana Sklyarova -- she's a woman. Ilya -- The US media WILL get confused by changing last names. For the purposes of any form of releases to the US media, we're best off sticking to just "Sklyarov" (as is the convention here for all [Slavic and otherwise] gender-tagged last names around here). -- -alexf From marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca Fri Jul 27 11:04:42 2001 From: marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca (Austin Hook) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyrights and patents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Scot Favorite wrote: > The US should only apply its laws in this country! > If we try to apply our laws outside of this country > we have to apply all of them and this just doesn't work. > Scot I notice that the US tends to apply it's laws outside the country, and forgets that if it does so, to be consistent, it should also apply it's Bill of Rights. So it's a double jeopardy. A double travesty of justice. Austin Hook Calgary > -----Original Message----- > From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net > [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of DeBug > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 11:16 AM > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: Re[2]: [free-sklyarov] Copyrights and patents > > > AD> I would definitely support stopping the US from > AD> trying to enforce its laws overseas (or create similar international > laws). > > I would put it in other way: > I would definitely support stopping the US from trying to enforce its laws > on those who is not US citizens. > I have nothing against applying US laws in my country for US citizens > but only for US citizens. > > -- > Best regards, > DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From randy at middlewest.com Fri Jul 27 11:04:56 2001 From: randy at middlewest.com (Randy Rathbun) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's situation on NPR's Science Friday Message-ID: <200107271304560350.00097CE1@64.51.184.34> SciFri just started here in KC... sometime during the next two hours they will be covering Dmitry. Go to http://www.sciencefriday.com to find what station in your town is carrying it. ----- If Bill Gates had a nickle for every time Windows crashed.... Oh, wait, he does! - posting on slashdot.org From krw5 at qwest.net Fri Jul 27 11:07:18 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov's case is going to be on NPR Science Friday NOW! Message-ID: <01072711071801.16785@stumpy> Looks like EFF is rep'ing "us". From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 27 11:07:28 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF Rejoins Protests After Meeting with US Attorney's Office Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010727110701.02ad0300@pop3.norton.antivirus> EFF Rejoins Protests After Meeting with US Attorney's Office Representatives of the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) met with representatives of the U.S. Attorney's office in San Francisco today. There was a productive dialog, however the U.S. Attorney's office gave no indication of dropping the prosecution against Dmitry Sklyarov. Having explored good faith negotiations, the Electronic Frontier Foundation rejoins the call for nonviolent protests worldwide to secure the immediate release of Dmitry Sklarov and dropping of all criminal charges against him. A protest is already scheduled in San Francisco for 11:30am this Monday, July 30, at the Federal Courthouse at 450 Golden Gate Ave. Additional protests will occur in 25 or more cities worldwide in coming weeks. NOTE: Will Doherty will be out of the office until August 8, so please direct media requests to press@eff.org and activism communications to free-dmitry@eff.org Free Dmitry and Reform the DMCA, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- From adunston at jetstream.com Fri Jul 27 11:23:43 2001 From: adunston at jetstream.com (Adrian Dunston) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] North Carolinians (and surrounding) Message-ID: There are obviously a few of us north of Atlanta and south of DC who can't drive to either place. I don't have the resources presently to set up a nice non-corporate mailing list / calendar. Until someone steps forward who can provide such a website for Monday's protest, we now have http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freesklyarovnc. You can quickly enter a yahoo account and join this list. Please contact me if you can set up something better, and I will start pointing people there. A good solution today better than a great solution tomorrow. -Adrian P. Dunston __ (sourceCode == freeSpeech) //Support the EFF. http://www.x-omega.com/shirtdept From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 27 11:27:18 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:58 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF Rejoins Protests After Meeting with US Attorney's Office In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010727110701.02ad0300@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010727110701.02ad0300@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <87ae1qkz21.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "WD" == Will Doherty writes: WD> EFF Rejoins Protests After Meeting with US Attorney's Office Shit. That's not what I wanted to hear. Couple of things: 1) Wanna host a calendar page? B-) 2) Need this out everywhere immediately. 3) Burton Building (office of the US Attorney), not Federal Courthouse. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From debug at centras.lt Fri Jul 27 11:30:34 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Copyrights and patents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2840350395.20010727203034@centras.lt> >> The US should only apply its laws in this country! >> If we try to apply our laws outside of this country >> we have to apply all of them and this just doesn't work. >> Scot AH> I notice that the US tends to apply it's laws outside the country, and AH> forgets that if it does so, to be consistent, it should also apply it's AH> Bill of Rights. So it's a double jeopardy. A double travesty of justice. i do not know what Bill of Rights is all about or any other laws and rights of US. For me the most important thing is that i have no means to alter these laws if i do not accept them. That is a reason why these laws cannot be applied for me. And if you disagree with me then we must talk about what is a JUST law and what is an UNJUST law. By JUST i mean that if all people obeyed it there would not be conflict based on it. I think all people could agree upon what is JUST. And after we agree i do accept just laws and do not accept unjust ones (even if they are in your constitution and you find them right). if i find in your Bill of Rights unjust statement i will never accept that statement. What i was saying almost two days is that copyright laws are unjust. Any copyright can cause conflict -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From pablos at kadrevis.com Fri Jul 27 11:34:53 2001 From: pablos at kadrevis.com (Pablos Kadrevis) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] US Employment for Dmitry Message-ID: <946154.996233693@[10.0.1.220]> I think it would help Dmitry out a lot if somebody offered him a job here in California. It would probably help him to get out on bail. Does anybody know people at the various eBook software companies that might need a programmer skilled in content protection schemes? Write me off list, as I can't follow all this traffic anymore. Thanks, pablos. -- Pablos Kadrevis pablos@kadrevis.com 415.420.3806 www.shmoo.com/~pablos From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Jul 27 11:35:10 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Backlash In-Reply-To: <200107271354.f6RDsg207933@moerbeke> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001 proclus@iname.com wrote: > Hmm, I've been calling Dmitry a "fair use champion". Although some > have attempted to paint him as a dubious hero, there is no such thing > as a perfect hero. I'm a grad student too, and I just naturally called him a grad student. Within the context of the Adobe case, I'd say "whistleblower." Also, when telling people what the DMCA does, it's best to first say what it _effectively_ does, then the guts of how. E.g., "well, there's a law now on the books that effectively outlaws XYZZY in certain situations involving computers." XYZZY == whistleblowers, consumer product testing, etc. Then you say, "it does this by outlawing any act of QPRNF...." -S From schoen at loyalty.org Fri Jul 27 11:35:36 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] EFF Rejoins Protests After Meeting with US Attorney's Office In-Reply-To: <87ae1qkz21.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 11:27:18AM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010727110701.02ad0300@pop3.norton.antivirus> <87ae1qkz21.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010727113536.M4677@zork.net> Klepht writes: > 3) Burton Building (office of the US Attorney), not Federal > Courthouse. Burton Building == Federal Courthouse http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/CourtInfo.nsf/6f311f8841e7da2488256405006827f0/a66048460ee80e908825666e005b46ff?OpenDocument The USAO, the Federal Public Defender, and the court are all in that building (and so is the Marshal Service). That does not mean that a trial would be held there, because it would be San Jose venue, but still it's the headquarters for these offices, so to speak. It's also wonderful to note that http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/ has a prominent link for "PDF Access for the Visually Impaired". Maybe they should link to Elcomsoft instead of to Adobe. :-) -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Fri Jul 27 11:37:14 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: UK Free-Sklyarov Mailing List References: Message-ID: <06da01c116cb$2b9a01d0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, Alex! > > > Everyone who has spoken to or corresponded with Oksana Sklyarov, > > Oksana Sklyarova -- she's a woman. > The US media WILL get confused by changing last names. For the purposes of > any form of releases to the US media, So only friendly media would speak correct -- its easy. I think, EFF can remember that Oksana is "Sklyarova", as a woman, and Dmitry is "Sklyarov", as a man. > we're best off sticking to just > "Sklyarov" (as is the convention here for all [Slavic and otherwise] > gender-tagged last names around here). So we must say "Alla Pugachev", "Valentina Tereshkov" ;-) I don't insist, just say, that "Oksana Sklyarova" is correct. And willn't make problems i.e. if she will be invited to the court or desided to get from Adobe a moral compensation. Because, as I guess, her international passport name is "Oksana Sklyarova". - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From wild at eff.org Fri Jul 27 11:43:46 2001 From: wild at eff.org (Will Doherty) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [DMITRY-PLAN] EFF Rejoins Protests After Meeting with US Attorney's Office In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010727105614.02ad0080@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010727114215.02d75e78@pop3.norton.antivirus> In the EFF press release, we mentioned all five cities. I am leaving the office now until August 9. Please contact Robin Gross of EFF in my absence and good luck getting Dmitry out before I return! Free Dmitry and Reform the DMCA, Will Doherty Online Activist / Media Relations Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Web http://www.eff.org Electronic Frontier Foundation - Protecting rights in the digital age ------- At 02:37 PM 7/27/2001 -0400, C. Scott Ananian wrote: >can we get some EFF support for the Boston protest? press help especially >would be useful: there are five cities listed on freesklyarov.org, and the >eff has only mentioned the s.f. protest. > --s > >President Leitrim immediate ASW ammunition Nader munitions Castro >Semtex Albanian Kennedy counter-intelligence Hussein Mk 48 Noriega > ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian ) > -- > "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is > all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970, > minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4. > -- > [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/] >#!/usr/bin/perl -w ># 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz ># MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout ># arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order >$_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5; >$_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d= >unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d > >>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9 >,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t >^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271)) >[$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval From cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu Fri Jul 27 11:44:29 2001 From: cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] getting your event on freesklyarov.org Message-ID: forwarding this message to the national list, as there are many valiant souls there. --s ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 14:39:21 -0400 From: Jim Youll To: Free Dmitry , dmitry-plan@eff.org Cc: press@freesklyarov.org Subject: Re: Formatted Minnesota info THANK YOU!!! for saying that we can't check your page for updates, because we can't. We can't and we won't, darn it!! So there!!!! :) Seriously, now i'll try to restate plainly what I think is the best way for everyone to handle this local/national stuff... Maybe inventing a policy for the freesklyarov.org site will do it. Let's try this. (and will all persons please remember that we are not doing this as our JOBS) FREESKLYAROV.ORG policy on local information: (this is for our own sustainability, folks, unless you can get me a staff of 3 right away) 1 - we will link to ONE authoritative local home page for any location on earth, as follows: freesklyarov.org/(locale) and/or (if you want it and your server can handle it) (locale).freesklyarov.org (which can include an MX record for e-mail) 2 - if you have an event on a certain day, definitely send the announcement to mailto:calendar@freesklyarov.org with the date and what the event is (and if the other details are in there, that's fine, but we don't have a forum for them just now), and we will include on the "upcoming events" at the top. However, for the moment we are not running a massive multiuser calendar system, so you need to post your event DETAILS to your local home page (where they should be ANYWAY!!). We will point to the home page from the event listing, people will see it, they'll show up at your #bash. This is all we can handle at this time. The local organization needs to stay local. Having a local home page that we can point to is very important if you want people to stay up to date with what you are doing. 3 - we ask all local organizers to prominently point back to www.freesklyarov.org so that people who find your local info first can also get the overall info that we are pointing to... including for example, people from some other locality who find your site and want to find their own organizers... best regards to all, and good luck with the organizing. Looks like it's going to be more work than fun from here out. At 1:14 PM -0500 7/27/01, Free Dmitry wrote: >Maybe I'm just confused, but I'm having problems keeping straight who can >make best use of this information. Have we a consensus on who is the >clearinghouse for this information (besides my own page)? > >I'd like to be able to email this once and have it forwarded to the people >who will post it; what email address is the one I should use? Forgive my >frailty, but remembering to send announcements to 10 different addresses >in 10 different formats is a lot of work for my tired brain. I don't >expect higher level organizers to visit my page every 10 minutes for >updates, just an address where I can send my release and know it will be >posted in the appropriate places. > >Monday July 30 4-6pm >Minneapolis Federal Courthouse >300 S 4th St. Minneapolis >Map: http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=300+S+4th+St.&city=Minneapolis&state=MN&slt=44.978100&sln=-93.265300&name=&zip=55415-1320&country=us&BFKey=&BFCat=&BFClient=&mag=9&desc=&cs=9&newmag=8&poititle=&poi= >Local List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ >Local webpage: http://www.underwhelm.org/freedima >Organizer: Chris Moseng - freedima@underwhelm.org - 651-353-1513 > >Free Dmitry. >Repeal the DMCA. >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Jul 27 11:55:27 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: UK Free-Sklyarov Mailing List In-Reply-To: <06da01c116cb$2b9a01d0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Ilya V. Vasilyev wrote: > I think, EFF can remember that Oksana is "Sklyarova", as > a woman, and Dmitry is "Sklyarov", as a man. > Yes; and if this is too complicated for the US press to understand, they can just say, "Oksana, Sklyarov's wife...." -S From jono at microshaft.org Fri Jul 27 11:56:48 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] getting your event on freesklyarov.org In-Reply-To: ; from cananian@lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 02:44:29PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010727115648.D31141@networkcommand.com> Also, there is a news submission tool at: http://www.anti-dmca.org/cgi-bin/enews.cgi You can submit all the Rallies and info you want just make sure you link to it correctly. Make sure you follow the info from FREESKLYAROV.ORG as well. The Anti-DMCA.org site is just good for news. On 27-Jul-2001, C. Scott Ananian wrote: > forwarding this message to the national list, as there are many > valiant souls there. > --s > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 14:39:21 -0400 > From: Jim Youll > To: Free Dmitry , dmitry-plan@eff.org > Cc: press@freesklyarov.org > Subject: Re: Formatted Minnesota info > > THANK YOU!!! for saying that we can't check your page for updates, because we can't. We can't and we won't, darn it!! So there!!!! :) Seriously, now i'll try to restate plainly what I think is the best way for everyone to handle this local/national stuff... > > Maybe inventing a policy for the freesklyarov.org site will do it. Let's try this. (and will all persons please remember that we are not doing this as our JOBS) > > > FREESKLYAROV.ORG policy on local information: > (this is for our own sustainability, folks, unless you can get me a staff of 3 right away) > > 1 - we will link to ONE authoritative local home page for any location on earth, as follows: > freesklyarov.org/(locale) > and/or (if you want it and your server can handle it) > (locale).freesklyarov.org (which can include an MX record for e-mail) > > 2 - if you have an event on a certain day, definitely send the announcement to mailto:calendar@freesklyarov.org with the date and what the event is (and if the other details are in there, that's fine, but we don't have a forum for them just now), and we will include on the "upcoming events" at the top. However, for the moment we are not running a massive multiuser calendar system, so you need to post your event DETAILS to your local home page (where they should be ANYWAY!!). We will point to the home page from the event listing, people will see it, they'll show up at your #bash. > > This is all we can handle at this time. The local organization needs to stay local. Having a local home page that we can point to is very important if you want people to stay up to date with what you are doing. > > 3 - we ask all local organizers to prominently point back to www.freesklyarov.org so that people who find your local info first can also get the overall info that we are pointing to... including for example, people from some other locality who find your site and want to find their own organizers... > > > best regards to all, and good luck with the organizing. Looks like it's going to be more work than fun from here out. > > > > At 1:14 PM -0500 7/27/01, Free Dmitry wrote: > >Maybe I'm just confused, but I'm having problems keeping straight who can > >make best use of this information. Have we a consensus on who is the > >clearinghouse for this information (besides my own page)? > > > >I'd like to be able to email this once and have it forwarded to the people > >who will post it; what email address is the one I should use? Forgive my > >frailty, but remembering to send announcements to 10 different addresses > >in 10 different formats is a lot of work for my tired brain. I don't > >expect higher level organizers to visit my page every 10 minutes for > >updates, just an address where I can send my release and know it will be > >posted in the appropriate places. > > > >Monday July 30 4-6pm > >Minneapolis Federal Courthouse > >300 S 4th St. Minneapolis > >Map: http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=300+S+4th+St.&city=Minneapolis&state=MN&slt=44.978100&sln=-93.265300&name=&zip=55415-1320&country=us&BFKey=&BFCat=&BFClient=&mag=9&desc=&cs=9&newmag=8&poititle=&poi= > >Local List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ > >Local webpage: http://www.underwhelm.org/freedima > >Organizer: Chris Moseng - freedima@underwhelm.org - 651-353-1513 > > > >Free Dmitry. > >Repeal the DMCA. > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Jul 27 11:57:31 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What was that russian chant? In-Reply-To: <06da01c116cb$2b9a01d0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: At monday's SJ protest, we were occasionally chanting something in Russian. Anyone on this list who can tell me what it was and its translation? I think the 2nd and 4th lines were something like "svobodu dime" and "sei chas." -S From mw at themail.com Fri Jul 27 12:02:50 2001 From: mw at themail.com (mw@themail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] phoenix protest Message-ID: <20010727150216.SM00201@mail.TheMail.com> I just got an interesting call from news channel 15 I think it was. "Hector" said he needs more info so they can do a write up of the protest tomorrow! hey, the word Millennium is misspelled on the dmca flyer! I ought to know, I misspelled that word enough times in my book! coolies...maybe we'll have some good spreading of the word out here. I hope that we get a good turn out too! -marcia "aicra" wilbur __________________________________________________________________ TheMail.com - Full featured premium email you can count on. Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ From adunston at jetstream.com Fri Jul 27 12:00:51 2001 From: adunston at jetstream.com (Adrian Dunston) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:59 2005 Subject: FW: [free-sklyarov] North Carolinians (and surrounding) Message-ID: >From: Chris Moseng >Yahoo Groups by default allow non yahoo members to subscribe via email, >and can be set up to let them read archives and everyhing. Examine the >settings. Thanks, Chris. Everything is set. Everyone in the North Carolina area, please come together here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freesklyarovnc/. -Adrian P. Dunston __ (sourceCode == freeSpeech) //Support the EFF. http://www.x-omega.com/shirtdept From declan at well.com Fri Jul 27 12:11:48 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ACM writes letter to AAP over Sklyarov prosecution Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010727151055.02014820@mail.well.com> Politech has the letter: http://www.politechbot.com/p-02318.html From drumz at best.com Fri Jul 27 12:16:35 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Monday, another place? In-Reply-To: <7b7ea7cbfc.7cbfc7b7ea@scccd.org> from Steve M Bibayoff at "Jul 27, 1 08:48:24 am" Message-ID: <200107271916.MAA22772@shell3.ba.best.com> > I know the protest on Monday has been plannned for the federal building, > I just wanted to bring up a second place that also might wanted to be > visited. I beleive people should also be protesting outside of Diane > Feinstein office. She has one in SF also. All CA offices: > http://www.senate.gov/~feinstein/california_offices.html > ... > Just a thought, trying to gauge peoples feelings on this. > > Steve Protesting at Feinstein's offices is always a good idea, just on general principle. The Sklyarov affair is certainly as good a reason as any. ;) Unfortunately, I'll be out of the state next week, but I'm there in spirit. Ethan From andrea at gravitt.org Fri Jul 27 12:21:39 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] USACM statement Message-ID: <011a01c116d1$600809c0$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> The previous letter from USACM to AAP quoted by a poster was from a draft. For those interested, here is a link to the final version: http://www.acm.org/usacm/IP/AAP-letter.html Andrea From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Fri Jul 27 12:20:54 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What was that russian chant? References: Message-ID: <074801c116d2$0c5561f0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, Xcott Craver! > At monday's SJ protest, we were occasionally chanting > something in Russian. Anyone on this list who can tell > me what it was and its translation? > > I think the 2nd and 4th lines were something like > "svobodu dime" and "sei chas." ;-) You are good in transcribing words. "(Freedom to) Dmitry" and "right now" - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From drumz at best.com Fri Jul 27 12:28:11 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:04:59 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] No more aping around! In-Reply-To: <00e801c116b9$c25166c0$3088d790@tti.com> from "Mark K. Bilbo" at "Jul 27, 1 09:32:42 am" Message-ID: <200107271928.MAA26645@shell3.ba.best.com> > In the grand scheme of things, I'm only one ticket and one movie goer but I > am NOT going to see their ape movie. > > If they want to "protect" it from me so badly, well, they win. I'll not > violate their copyright by making unauthorized copies with my eyes... > > Mark I think I've heard of this ape movie. Isn't this the one where the good guys crash-land on a strange planet and wind up being incarcerated by apes with backward, repressive copyright laws, only to discover that they've actually wound up in the U.S. of the future? Or am I thinking of something different? Ethan -- You know the saying, "Human see, human do." From andrea at gravitt.org Fri Jul 27 12:32:36 2001 From: andrea at gravitt.org (Andrea) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] USACM statement Message-ID: <013301c116d2$e5ec81f0$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> Looks like Declan beat me to it, he's got the same one as I do. Andrea -----Original Message----- From: Andrea To: free-skylarov@zork.net Date: Friday, 27 July, 2001 15:23 Subject: [free-sklyarov] USACM statement >The previous letter from USACM to AAP quoted by a poster was from a draft. >For those interested, here is a link to the final version: > >http://www.acm.org/usacm/IP/AAP-letter.html From vadim at xcf.berkeley.edu Fri Jul 27 12:45:38 2001 From: vadim at xcf.berkeley.edu (Vadim Kogan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What was that russian chant? (fwd) In-Reply-To: ; from alexf@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 12:09:07PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010727124538.K32630@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> Here's how it goes: Chto my hotim? (What do we want?) Svobody Dime! (Free Dima (short of Dmitry)) Kogda my hotim? (When do we want?) Seichas (Now) or Prjamo seichas (Right now) Lemme try to give a better version for people who want to learn the sounds: Shto my* hoti'm? Swabo'dy Di'me! Kagda my* hoti'm? Seicha's! (Pria'mo Seicha's) an apostrophe (') after a letter (or two letter in case there is no simple transliteration) means the accent. * I do not know how to properly show the second sound in "my". Why it looks like english word "my", it does not sound like it at all. Somebody with better background might be able to come up with appropriate notation for the sound. Meanwhile I'll try to give some web examples on how the letter "y" should be pronounced: "not found in English; like u as in tulip, but without lip-rounding" "more broad sound than in unstressed "it"" "i in ill" If there is a need I'll try to find a microphone and record a simple slow version of the above. On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 12:09:07PM -0700, Alex Fabrikant wrote: > i think you should answer this one > > -- > -alexf > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 14:57:31 -0400 (EDT) > From: Xcott Craver > To: free-sklyarov@zork.net > Subject: [free-sklyarov] What was that russian chant? > > > At monday's SJ protest, we were occasionally chanting > something in Russian. Anyone on this list who can tell > me what it was and its translation? > > I think the 2nd and 4th lines were something like > "svobodu dime" and "sei chas." > -S > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov Vadim. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010727/d2ab7a5f/attachment.pgp From jstyre at jstyre.com Fri Jul 27 12:48:48 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:00 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] USACM statement In-Reply-To: <013301c116d2$e5ec81f0$9fc6a8c0@alongo.icallinc.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010727124057.00b23b30@earthlink.net> For the sake of completeness, there were three enclosures to the letter: http://www.acm.org/usacm/IP/dmca.exemption.htm http://www.acm.org/usacm/IP/presidents-letter-998.html http://www.cerias.purdue.edu/homes/spaf/WIPO/index.html#Text At 03:32 PM 7/27/2001 -0400, Andrea wrote: >Looks like Declan beat me to it, he's got the same one as I do. > >Andrea > >-----Original Message----- >From: Andrea >To: free-skylarov@zork.net >Date: Friday, 27 July, 2001 15:23 >Subject: [free-sklyarov] USACM statement > > > >The previous letter from USACM to AAP quoted by a poster was from a draft. > >For those interested, here is a link to the final version: > > > >http://www.acm.org/usacm/IP/AAP-letter.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From ed at hintz.org Fri Jul 27 12:48:05 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] May be of interest. (fwd) Message-ID: <200107271948.f6RJm5c22922@phil.hintz.org> Hello Linda, My apologies for the intrusion. Mr. Gladding gave an excellent reply regarding Adobe's statements, but there is one piece of evidence I think is important for consideration. Regarding the Adobe PR statement: >> 4. Adobe had NOTHING to do with the arrest of Dimitry. This was a >> unilateral decision of the Justice Dept. We were as surprised at the >> arrest as everyone else. We have no influence with the Justice Dept as >> to who they prosecute under United States criminal law. The documents filed in the US District Court of Northern California by the FBI on 28 June can be found at this web address in .pdf format: http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010707_complaint.pdf This document describes an initial meeting on 26 June, between FBI Agent Daniel J. O'Connell; Kevin Nathanson, Group Product Manager, ebooks, Adobe; and Daryl Spano, Technical Investigator, Investigations/AntiPiracy, Adobe. The following quote is from page 5 of Agent OConnell's sworn statement: >e. Adobe has learned that Dmitry Skylarov is slated to speak on July 15, >2001 at a confrence entitled Defcon-9 at Las Vegas Nevada. Spano told me >that he learned that Sklyrarov is scheduled to make a presentation related >to the AEBPR software program. In light of this information, I find it difficult to believe that *everyone* at Adobe was "surprised" by the arrest. It seems to me that Mr. Spano and Mr. Nathanson essentially handed a gift wrapped package to the FBI, signed sealed and delivered. I don't want to say that Adobe is lying-perhaps the persons in Marketing or Public Relations were genuinely surprised. I find it extremely difficult to believe, however, that Mr. Spano and Mr. Nathanson were "surprised" by the actions of the FBI and the Department of Justice. Frankly, I would compare this statement to that of Major Strasser, in the classic movie Casablanca, being "shocked" at gambling going on at Rick's place, while accepting his winnings from the roulette table. By all means, I encourage you, and all others, to read the complaint yourselves, and come to your own conclusions. If your conclusions are that Mr. Skylarov is being unlawfully held captive by a foreign state, I urge you to join us in whatever way you feel comfortable in calling for the immediate and unconditional release of Mr. Skylarov. Thank you for your time and your concern, and the best of luck to you in your future endeavors. Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mellon at pobox.com Fri Jul 27 12:59:13 2001 From: mellon at pobox.com (Anatoly Vorobey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What was that russian chant? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20010727124538.K32630@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu>; from Vadim Kogan on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 12:45:38PM -0700 References: <20010727124538.K32630@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <20010727225913.53696@techunix.technion.ac.il> You, Vadim Kogan, were spotted writing this on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 12:45:38PM -0700: > Lemme try to give a better version for people who want to learn the sounds: > > Shto my* hoti'm? > Swabo'dy Di'me! > Kagda my* hoti'm? ^^^^^^stressed on the second syllable. > Seicha's! (Pria'mo Seicha's) > > an apostrophe (') after a letter (or two letter in case there is no simple > transliteration) means the accent. > > * I do not know how to properly show the second sound in "my". Why it looks > like english word "my", it does not sound like it at all. Somebody with > better background might be able to come up with appropriate notation for the > sound. English lacks this sound. It's reasonably close to English short [i], as in "bit", "it", "mill". The vowel of "is" in the phrase "it is" is a passable approximation. FWIW, in phonetic terms it's a central high unrounded vowel. -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Jul 27 13:14:43 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology Poll In-Reply-To: <3B619EA5.1070604@iname.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Michael L. Love wrote: "Crippled media" seems to be in the lead, with "limited rights media" right behind. While I agree "crippled media" is accurate, my beef with it is that it is only a term _we_ would use. It isn't the kind of term you could get a lot of people to adopt, because it sorta sounds more opinionated, and, of course, emotionally charged. It certainly seems kooky for me to complain that a term isn't dry and technical *enough*, because all my submissions (e.g., "usage controlled") sound too dry and jargonny. But a certain technical, official air is needed if you want the term to creep into academic papers, cnn.com articles, etc. -S [The media will probably also avoid use of the word "crippled."] From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Fri Jul 27 13:16:11 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NPR discussion board Message-ID: Science Friday discussed Dmitry today (I missed it) and now they have a discussion board to talk about the show. http://www.npr.org/cgi-bin/WebX?14@^39427@.ee6fd16 Free Dmitry. Repeal the DMCA. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ From sethf at sethf.com Fri Jul 27 13:33:14 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DRAFT of letter to Senator Kennedy Message-ID: <20010727163314.A3082@sethf.com> Scott, here's a *DRAFT* of what I'm trying to do in my letter. This isn't the final verison by far, but since you wanted sample text, here's a look at my rough version. Note the bracketed material is how I'm trying to structure it. -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html Dear Senator Kennedy [Why am I writing?] I am writing to you concerning the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), and the use of the DMCA to arrest and press criminal charges against Russian graduate student and programmer Dmitry Skylarov when he was in the United States for a conference. Because of the DMCA and a dispute between Mr. Skylarov's employer and a US company, he is currently being held in prison without bail and faces a possible jail term of many years. [What should you do?] I urge you to use your position on the Judiciary Committee to examine reforms to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Please take the upcoming Senate confirmation hearings for U.S. Attorney Robert Mueller to be FBI Director as an opportunity to examine the conduct of the US Attorney's Office in the case of Mr. Skylarov. Many organizations have called for the DMCA charges to be dropped against Mr. Skylarov so that he can be freed. [Why should you listen to me?] I write to you with special credentials and particular concern in this matter. Just this year I received the award of being named a 2001 Pioneer of The Electronic Frontier by the Electronic Frontier Foundation. I was profiled in the New York Times on July 19. The award was for hundreds of hours of unpaid decryption work and investigation in the service of free-speech causes. I will not take the time to go into details, except to stress that it involved decryptions which could have subjected me to civil and perhaps criminal liability under the provisions of the DMCA. My work, along with others doing similar investigations, was responsible for obtaining a narrow exemption from the Library Of Congress under the DMCA for performing those investigations. However, even so, other provisions of the DMCA may still subject me and others to civil and even criminal penalties. Such concerns are still a major worry of mine. Seeing a corporation able to instigate the arrest of programmer, and a US Attorney's Office continuing prosecution even after the corporation has decided to ask for the programmer's release, is an extremely chilling effect. [Why should you care?] As one of the few Senators who voted against the Communications Decency Act (CDA) in 1996, your principled stance against censorship of the Internet is well-known. The case of Mr. Skylarov demonstrates how the Digital Millennium Copyright Act has became far removed from any legitimate interests of copyright. If publishers are able to generate arrests of programmers as part of copyright protections, this will have a profound influence on future copyright debate. From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Jul 27 13:44:56 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:01 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mandatory warning labels of access restrictions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey, since some people want mandatory labeling of genetically modified or irradiated food, what if media required mandatory warning labels of any (a) usage restrictions conflicting with fair use, or (b) security features that may raise privacy issues? I don't just mean the FBI warning you see on rented movies, but a required warning label that this product you are about to buy has extra usage limitations, beyond normal expectations, and is has the following security features built in? I mean, this is easily justified: (a), if it is a federal crime to use the media in a way people consider "normal," you want to make sure people know, so they won't break the law; and (b) if usage is monitored by any 3rd party, even in the form of a chip in your DVD player, people arguably have a right to know. I, personally, would want to know if something I am buying has any hidden security devices, such as embedded ID numbers, instructions ordering certain players to refuse to play or record, or if I will be prevented from using it in any manner I wouldn't normally expect. -S From wahern at 25thandClement.com Fri Jul 27 13:58:15 2001 From: wahern at 25thandClement.com (William Ahern) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mandatory warning labels of access restrictions In-Reply-To: from Xcott Craver at "Jul 27, 2001 04:44:56 pm" Message-ID: <200107272058.f6RKwFo23006@25thandClement.com> be careful what you wish for. are you defending that these restrictions are legitimate, or are you aiming to bring about the ire of the public? > > Hey, since some people want mandatory labeling of genetically > modified or irradiated food, what if media required mandatory > warning labels of any (a) usage restrictions conflicting with > fair use, or (b) security features that may raise privacy issues? > > I don't just mean the FBI warning you see on rented movies, > but a required warning label that this product you are about to > buy has extra usage limitations, beyond normal expectations, and > is has the following security features built in? > > I mean, this is easily justified: (a), if it is a federal crime > to use the media in a way people consider "normal," you want to > make sure people know, so they won't break the law; and (b) if > usage is monitored by any 3rd party, even in the form of a chip in > your DVD player, people arguably have a right to know. > > I, personally, would want to know if something I am buying has > any hidden security devices, such as embedded ID numbers, > instructions ordering certain players to refuse to play or record, > or if I will be prevented from using it in any manner I wouldn't > normally expect. From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Fri Jul 27 14:01:25 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mandatory warning labels of access restrictions In-Reply-To: <200107272058.f6RKwFo23006@25thandClement.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, William Ahern wrote: > be careful what you wish for. are you defending that > these restrictions are legitimate, or are you aiming > to bring about the ire of the public? Good point. And you wouldn't want something like this to become a vehicle for crypto restrictions. Imagine if you were required to disclose any hidden messages in media, regardless of whether you were selling it, or simply transmitting it---that would make all steganography a crime! -S From ausage at ausage.com Fri Jul 27 14:09:00 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mandatory warning labels of access restrictions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072717090005.07322@frankie> On July 27, 2001 04:44 pm, Xcott Craver wrote: > Hey, since some people want mandatory labeling of genetically > modified or irradiated food, what if media required mandatory > warning labels of any (a) usage restrictions conflicting with > fair use, or (b) security features that may raise privacy issues? I think its a great idea. One I hope to see implemented in any revision of Canada's copyright right act. i.e. "Your fair use of this book is restricted" "You may only read this book once" "Your right to copy CD is impaired" Either that, or if a publsiher wishes to restrict the rights of fair use or first sale through an onerous license, then they must give up their copyright. i.e. You can't have your cake and eat it too. -- Andrew Lawrence Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 From roylo at sr2c.com Fri Jul 27 14:23:07 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sat. Protest (flyers passed out) Message-ID: <005c01c116e2$54bbd360$0200a8c0@jwin> Hi, All I get got back from San Jose State U and De Anze This is basicly what happen: 1.) Copying in Kinko's was very expansive 2.) Most San Jose State U student aren't really interest in this 3.) Almost over 95% of the people don't even know who is Dmitry (one guy thought I was passing out "Free Donut" flyers instead "Free Dmitry) 4.) De Anze is closed today Anyway, I got around 500 flyers left; anyone want to help me to pass them out in Stanford??? I will be taking off to Stanford in an hour. So if you live in Bay and want to help me out. (And happen to see this e-mail before 3:30pm PST) please contact me roylo@sr2c.com thanks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010727/6582b991/attachment.htm From proclus at iname.com Fri Jul 27 14:33:26 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:02 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mandatory warning labels of access restrictions In-Reply-To: <01072717090005.07322@frankie> Message-ID: <200107272133.f6RLXT208530@moerbeke> Yes! People will finally realize that the mattress tag nightmare has come real. It's Farenheit 451 all over again. How about this? Warning, this product contains copy restriction technology that prevents fair usage. Circumvention of these restrictions could result in fine, imprisonment or both. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ On 27 Jul, Andrew Lawrence wrote: > On July 27, 2001 04:44 pm, Xcott Craver wrote: >> Hey, since some people want mandatory labeling of genetically >> modified or irradiated food, what if media required mandatory >> warning labels of any (a) usage restrictions conflicting with >> fair use, or (b) security features that may raise privacy issues? > > I think its a great idea. One I hope to see implemented in any revision of > Canada's copyright right act. i.e. > > "Your fair use of this book is restricted" > "You may only read this book once" > "Your right to copy CD is impaired" > > Either that, or if a publsiher wishes to restrict the rights of fair use or > first sale through an onerous license, then they must give up their > copyright. i.e. You can't have your cake and eat it too. > -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From gbroiles at well.com Fri Jul 27 15:01:49 2001 From: gbroiles at well.com (Greg Broiles) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sat. Protest (flyers passed out) In-Reply-To: <005c01c116e2$54bbd360$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010727144925.0352e790@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 02:23 PM 7/27/2001 -0700, roylo wrote: >Hi, All >I get got back from San Jose State U and De Anze >This is basicly what happen: >1.) Copying in Kinko's was very expansive >2.) Most San Jose State U student aren't really interest in this >3.) Almost over 95% of the people don't even know who is Dmitry > (one guy thought I was passing out "Free Donut" flyers instead "Free > Dmitry) >4.) De Anze is closed today > >Anyway, I got around 500 flyers left; anyone want to help me to pass them >out in Stanford??? >I will be taking off to Stanford in an hour. So if you live in Bay and >want to help me out. (And happen to see this e-mail before 3:30pm PST) I don't know what your flyer-passing methodology is - but when I was in school (especially the years I was at a big public university), I learned very quickly that the easiest way to escape the attention-spam of flyer distributors was to avoid *any* engagement with them - no eye contact, no response to anything they said - and they'd move on to someone else quickly. I would occasionally stop and look at interesting displays ( = posters, exhibits) and then take flyers if I wanted to learn more about whatever it was that piqued my interest. It's better (and cheaper) to give flyers only to the 5-10% of passers-by who are interested, than to hand them out to everyone in hopes that the others will later magically develop interest in the topic. So, if you're focusing on quantity of flyers distributed, rather than quality of your contacts with individuals, I think that's an unrewarding direction - but if you are making a few, strong, contacts - you're doing as well as can be expected. People won't shift from clueless about the DMCA to strong "Free Dmitry!" backers in 15 seconds - they'll probably have to think about this and read about it for awhile, and hear their friends thinking and talking about it, too. So, don't despair, and don't think you're a failure if you don't give a flyer to everyone you see. -- Greg Broiles gbroiles@well.com "We have found and closed the thing you watch us with." -- New Delhi street kids From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Fri Jul 27 15:36:02 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] e-protest action for Dmitry, against DMCA Message-ID: <00e501c116ec$c1da80e0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, All! I think, that we live in XXI century. And methods of protest are also changeing. While traditional pickets are still good, I want to make a new action, e-protest and ask people to join. Free Dmitry * Free Dmitry * Free Dmitry * Free Dmitry * Free Dmitry * Free Dmi tt tt eeeeee ppppp rr rrrr oooooo tt eeeeee sssss tt ee ee pp pp rrr r oo oo ttttt ee ee ss ttttt eeeeeee ____ pp pp rr oo oo tt eeeeeee ssss tt eee ==== ppppp rr oo oo tt tt eee ss tt tt eeeee pp rr ooooo (1) tttt eeeee sssss tttt pp Repeal the DMCA * Repeal the DMCA * Repeal the DMCA * Repeal the DMCA * Repeal Internet protest can help to join people from every town and country. I ask activists to make only *legal* use of Internet. During e-picket we will picket Adobe and FBI sites, their web-forums. All actions will be coordinated via IRC server. Because all actions in Internet can be traced by logs, it is better to work via some Internet cafe or public terminal. I think, 1st e-protest we can make just on Monday, July, 30, at 11:00 Pacific Time = 22:00 MSK = 18:00 UTC to support real-world actions in United States. Who want to participate and who already have some group (in your town or distributed), that can join us, feel free to answer here or to my e-mail. You will need only web browser and IRC client. For Windows you can download trial mIRC client ( www.mirc.org ). Be sure to install it before protest. - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From david at lupercalia.net Fri Jul 27 15:54:06 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] May be of interest. (fwd) In-Reply-To: ; from derek_gladding@altavista.net on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 03:03:02AM -0700 References: <347168.996194721@[10.0.1.220]> Message-ID: <20010727185406.F748@lupercalia.net> On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 03:03:02AM -0700, Derek Gladding wrote: > > 4. Adobe had NOTHING to do with the arrest of Dimitry. This was a > > unilateral decision of the Justice Dept. We were as surprised at the > > arrest as everyone else. We have no influence with the Justice Dept as > > to who they prosecute under United States criminal law. > > This is either extreme spin, or a demonstration of extreme ignorance of > the powers that the Justice Department have. After the complaint was > received, Dmitry *had* to be either arrested or left a free man. What > other outcome could Adobe have expected ? According to the affidavit signed by the FBI: `Daryl Spano [is] technical Investigator, Investigations / Anti-Piracy, Adobe' (page 2), and `Adobe has learned that Dmitry Sklyarov is slated to speak on July 15, 2001 at a conference entitled Devcon-9 at Las Vegas Nevada. Spano told me that he learned that Sklyarov is scheduled to make a presentation related to the AEBPR software program.' (page 4). So, according to the FBI, Spano (Adobe) told them where to *find* Dmitry. -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ How dare the government intervene to stifle innovation in the computer industry! That's Microsoft's job, dammit. --MacAddict From mecredis at home.com Fri Jul 27 16:03:38 2001 From: mecredis at home.com (Fred Benenson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NYC Protests? Message-ID: <3B61BB0A.22864.18C1E8A@localhost> I *just* joined the list, so this may or may not be redundant... I was wondering if there were any protests in NYC on monday? I am more than willing to meet up with anyone or help organize one, if anyone needs any help.. -Fred Benenson [a.k.a. DJ Mecredis] [AIM : Mecredis] [Web : http://w3.nai.net/~gardens/] From roylo at sr2c.com Fri Jul 27 16:07:49 2001 From: roylo at sr2c.com (roylo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sat. Protest (flyers passed out) References: <005c01c116e2$54bbd360$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: <001f01c116f0$f4ff03c0$0200a8c0@jwin> Got hold up by phone calls until now, I guess it is too late to go to Stanford. Doesn anyone know if any student is going to be around on the campus around 9:00am in Stanford? If so I guess I will go there tomorrow morning to try to get more people and pass out more flyers ----- Original Message ----- From: roylo To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 2:23 PM Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sat. Protest (flyers passed out) Hi, All I get got back from San Jose State U and De Anze This is basicly what happen: 1.) Copying in Kinko's was very expansive 2.) Most San Jose State U student aren't really interest in this 3.) Almost over 95% of the people don't even know who is Dmitry (one guy thought I was passing out "Free Donut" flyers instead "Free Dmitry) 4.) De Anze is closed today Anyway, I got around 500 flyers left; anyone want to help me to pass them out in Stanford??? I will be taking off to Stanford in an hour. So if you live in Bay and want to help me out. (And happen to see this e-mail before 3:30pm PST) please contact me roylo@sr2c.com thanks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010727/613a86c5/attachment.html From neale at woozle.org Fri Jul 27 16:18:25 2001 From: neale at woozle.org (Neale Pickett) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattle is on for Monday Message-ID: We will be protesting for Dmitry's release and against the DMCA at 3rd and Marion in downtown Seattle, from 11:30 until 1:30. More details, as always, at . From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 27 16:29:58 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NYC Protests? In-Reply-To: <3B61BB0A.22864.18C1E8A@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Fred Benenson wrote: > I *just* joined the list, so this may or may not be redundant... > I was wondering if there were any protests in NYC on monday? I > am more than willing to meet up with anyone or help organize one, > if anyone needs any help.. > > -Fred Benenson Yes, thanks! Noon Monday before the New York Public Library: http://freesklyarov.org/ny/index.html oo--JS. From jstyre at jstyre.com Fri Jul 27 16:32:29 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fwd: IP: Early ebook publisher's essay on why they should free Dmitri Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010727163207.00b27df0@earthlink.net> >Delivered-To: ip-sub-1-outgoing@admin.listbox.com >Delivered-To: ip-sub-1@majordomo.pobox.com >Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 18:54:08 -0400 >To: ip-sub-1@majordomo.pobox.com >From: David Farber >Reply-To: farber@cis.upenn.edu > > >>Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 14:19:15 -0700 >>From: Brad Templeton >>To: farber@cis.upenn.edu >> >>Dave, if you are interested for IP, I have put up an essay on the subject >>from my perspective both as EFF chairman and an early-era ebook publisher. >> >> http://www.templetons.com/brad/free.html >> >> >> >>An eBook Publisher on why the U.S. Attorney should free Dmitry Sklyarov >> >> There's been a lot of debate about the recent jailing of >> a young Russian named Dmitry Sklyarov, who helped write a >> controversial program that used to be sold by his employer, >> a Moscow company named Elcomsoft. >> >> This missive will be a bit different from some of the >> others you've read because I'm an ebook publisher -- one >> of the first. In addition, I've made pretty much all the >> money I've got from publishing copyrighted material online, >> and I'm a heavy defender of the rights of authors. >> >> ..... > > > >For archives see: http://www.interesting-people.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From nbushyager at yahoo.com Fri Jul 27 16:36:27 2001 From: nbushyager at yahoo.com (Nathan Bushyager) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Was a law even broken? Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010727163450.00ad0150@127.0.0.1> I apologize if anyone gets this twice, the first time it told me I was not a list member because I sent it with a different reply address. I have seen many messages on this list which complain about the nature of the DMCA and whether it can be applied to foreign citizens. I am writing this message to promote a discussion on whether Dimitry actually violated the DMCA. While I believe that the DMCA is both wrong and unconstitutional, I do not believe that arguing these points will actually help to free Dimitry, at least in the near future. I have read the FBI compliant and believe that Dimitry was arrested for the following reasons: 1. He is the author and copyright holder of a computer program designed to circumvent the access restrictions on copyrighted works. 2. That program was made available and distributed in the United States. The DMCA makes both of these acts illegal under US law. As it is law, and it is the job of the justice department to enforce the law, the FBI believes that it is justified in its actions. They are not allowed to ignore the law. While I believe that a DMCA test case is needed to revoke the law, I do not believe that this is such a case. I find both of the premises in the FBI complaint questionable. 1. First, the creation cannot be illegal because it was performed in a foreign country where the US has no jurisdiction. 2. Provided the program cannot legally be distributed in the US, Sklyarov did not perform the distribution. The program was distributed by a corporation, Elcomsoft. I have seen no evidence that Mr. Sklyarov was a party to this distribution. As such, he has broken no law. Now, this being said, I am not a lawyer. I am very interested in the opinion of others on my arguments. Especially those with legal expertise. I believe the first focus of this movement should be to get Dimitry released from prison and returned to his home. Nathan Bushyager From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 27 16:53:20 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Do You Want to Help But Don't Know What To Do? Message-ID: <87r8v2c4jz.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Getting someone to handle the freesklyarov.org calendar page is the MOST CRUCIAL THING right now. We're descending into chaos, and we really need someone to step up and do it. If you have any Web skills whatsoever, please take this task. You will be a major hero -- the confusion is killing us right now. Please, please, please. I'm cc'ing Rick Moen on this, who runs the excellent Bay Area Linux Events calendar. He just gave me an earful about how hard it is to get event information, and he can mentor you on having an efficient calendar page. ALL YOU NEED IS THE TIME AND ENERGY TO PUT THIS PAGE UP. Please, please, please. I'm begging here. Free Dmitry, ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 27 16:54:29 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sat. Protest (flyers passed out) In-Reply-To: <001f01c116f0$f4ff03c0$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, roylo wrote: > Got hold up by phone calls until now, I guess it is too late to go to > Stanford. > Doesn anyone know if any student is going to be around on the campus around > 9:00am in Stanford? > If so I guess I will go there tomorrow morning to try to get more people and > pass out more flyers Roylo, this are good works that need to be done. oo--JS. From declan at well.com Fri Jul 27 17:00:15 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mandatory warning labels of access restrictions In-Reply-To: <01072717090005.07322@frankie>; from ausage@ausage.com on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 05:09:00PM -0400 References: <01072717090005.07322@frankie> Message-ID: <20010727200014.B32270@cluebot.com> Reality check: You folks probably aren't even going to get the mild reform of the DMCA that Boucher proposed through Congress. What makes you think AAP/RIAA/MPAA/BSA are going to enthusiastically back legislation that makes their products unpalatable? Hint: They won't. -Declan On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 05:09:00PM -0400, Andrew Lawrence wrote: > On July 27, 2001 04:44 pm, Xcott Craver wrote: > > Hey, since some people want mandatory labeling of genetically > > modified or irradiated food, what if media required mandatory > > warning labels of any (a) usage restrictions conflicting with > > fair use, or (b) security features that may raise privacy issues? > > I think its a great idea. One I hope to see implemented in any revision of > Canada's copyright right act. i.e. > > "Your fair use of this book is restricted" > "You may only read this book once" > "Your right to copy CD is impaired" > > Either that, or if a publsiher wishes to restrict the rights of fair use or > first sale through an onerous license, then they must give up their > copyright. i.e. You can't have your cake and eat it too. > > -- > Andrew Lawrence > Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net > 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 > Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jays at panix.com Fri Jul 27 17:02:04 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NYC Protests? In-Reply-To: <3B61BB0A.22864.18C1E8A@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Fred Benenson wrote: > I *just* joined the list, so this may or may not be redundant... > I was wondering if there were any protests in NYC on monday? I > am more than willing to meet up with anyone or help organize one, > if anyone needs any help.. > > -Fred Benenson We marched last Monday: http://www.nylug.org/pictures/index.shtml?owner.dmca2001protest.set1 oo--JS. From wahern at 25thandClement.com Fri Jul 27 17:05:53 2001 From: wahern at 25thandClement.com (William Ahern) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mandatory warning labels of access restrictions In-Reply-To: <20010727200014.B32270@cluebot.com> from Declan McCullagh at "Jul 27, 2001 08:00:15 pm" Message-ID: <200107280005.f6S05rM19289@25thandClement.com> maybe you've been drinking out of one of those 'colored only' water fountains too much. or maybe you just slaved away as an 8 year-old in a coal-mine for too long. > Reality check: You folks probably aren't even going to get the mild > reform of the DMCA that Boucher proposed through Congress. What makes > you think AAP/RIAA/MPAA/BSA are going to enthusiastically back > legislation that makes their products unpalatable? Hint: They won't. > > -Declan > > > On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 05:09:00PM -0400, Andrew Lawrence wrote: > > On July 27, 2001 04:44 pm, Xcott Craver wrote: > > > Hey, since some people want mandatory labeling of genetically > > > modified or irradiated food, what if media required mandatory > > > warning labels of any (a) usage restrictions conflicting with > > > fair use, or (b) security features that may raise privacy issues? > > > > I think its a great idea. One I hope to see implemented in any revision of > > Canada's copyright right act. i.e. > > > > "Your fair use of this book is restricted" > > "You may only read this book once" > > "Your right to copy CD is impaired" > > > > Either that, or if a publsiher wishes to restrict the rights of fair use or > > first sale through an onerous license, then they must give up their > > copyright. i.e. You can't have your cake and eat it too. > > From krw5 at qwest.net Fri Jul 27 11:33:28 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Science Friday interview Message-ID: <01072711330802.16785@stumpy> Dear Ms. Gross, I have been following and participating in the Sklyarov case since last week. I was encouraged that NPR _finally_ woke up to the issue and interviewed you on Science Friday this morning. You and the EFF certainly know more about the legal angles and probably how to best spin this to the public than I, but I was disturbed by one oversight this morning. I believe that there must be public acknowledgement that, yes, there ARE illegal uses for the eBook Reader just as there are quite similar illegal uses for a hairpin (lock picking) and absolutely any other tool or technology you care to name. If this sort of full disclosure is not made, it sounds to those capable of understanding the issue like we're hiding something. You emphasize that there are legal issues, but I'd focus on the distinction between "tool" and "intent." I realize there are certain "breaking-and-entering" images we want to avoid, but blue-collar America, in particular, may actually grasp the issue if Title 17, Section 1201 is paraphrased as a ban on hammers and crowbars. Even the consumate layperson could understand that's bloody absurd. Thanks for your work! Roger Kramer mailto://rwkramer@premier1.net http://www.premier1.net/~rwkramer From admin at seattle-chat.com Fri Jul 27 17:20:47 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattle is on for Monday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 2nd Avenue, 3rd avenue is one block too far up. It's the Henery M. Jackson Federal Building. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Neale Pickett Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 4:18 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Cc: status@freesklyarov.org Subject: [free-sklyarov] Seattle is on for Monday We will be protesting for Dmitry's release and against the DMCA at 3rd and Marion in downtown Seattle, from 11:30 until 1:30. More details, as always, at . _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 27 17:30:02 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Splitting the List Message-ID: <877kwtdhf9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> I'd like to suggest that perhaps we need to split this list in two. Although I'm a free-sklyarov junkie and I read every email that comes through, I've talked to a number of people who were unable to find important information because of the high level of discussion on here. I'd like to perhaps suggest that we might want to reserve free-sklyarov for: - event coordination - tactical coordination - announcements - event reports - press sightings - Dmitry-related URLs We could then have another list ("free-sklyarov-discuss"?) that would be for such things as: - analysis of Dmitry's arrest, culpability, etc. - screeds against Adobe, the USA, Mueller, etc. - trolling Declan - general DMCA discussion - general civil liberties discussion The fact is that we're awash in enthusiasm without coordination. We -- this list -- need to stay focussed on MAKING THINGS HAPPEN, and push aside everything else. I'm not saying the discussion isn't valuable or useful, but it's overwhelming the strategy here, and we really need to stay focused on strategy. Monday, July 30th may be the biggest day in our short history as an effort. We _NEED_ to go BIG. And we're not going to get there if we can't work together. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From pmasloch at earthlink.net Fri Jul 27 17:34:03 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] D.C. webpage Message-ID: The D.C. group has a new improved and updated webpage http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org From pmasloch at earthlink.net Fri Jul 27 17:36:36 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Splitting the List In-Reply-To: <877kwtdhf9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: Very good idea. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Stop the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.boycottadobe.org -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Klepht Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 8:30 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Cc: schoen@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Splitting the List I'd like to suggest that perhaps we need to split this list in two. Although I'm a free-sklyarov junkie and I read every email that comes through, I've talked to a number of people who were unable to find important information because of the high level of discussion on here. I'd like to perhaps suggest that we might want to reserve free-sklyarov for: - event coordination - tactical coordination - announcements - event reports - press sightings - Dmitry-related URLs We could then have another list ("free-sklyarov-discuss"?) that would be for such things as: - analysis of Dmitry's arrest, culpability, etc. - screeds against Adobe, the USA, Mueller, etc. - trolling Declan - general DMCA discussion - general civil liberties discussion The fact is that we're awash in enthusiasm without coordination. We -- this list -- need to stay focussed on MAKING THINGS HAPPEN, and push aside everything else. I'm not saying the discussion isn't valuable or useful, but it's overwhelming the strategy here, and we really need to stay focused on strategy. Monday, July 30th may be the biggest day in our short history as an effort. We _NEED_ to go BIG. And we're not going to get there if we can't work together. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca Fri Jul 27 17:41:56 2001 From: tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Splitting the List In-Reply-To: <877kwtdhf9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: Strongly agree! TAA ----------------------------------------------------- Tony Abou-Assaleh Graduate Student, Department of Computer Science University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, Canada, N2L 3G1 Office: DC2503 Phone: (519) 888-4567 Ext. 3399 Email: taa@acm.org -----------------------[THE END]--------------------- On 27 Jul 2001, Klepht wrote: > I'd like to suggest that perhaps we need to split this list in two. > > Although I'm a free-sklyarov junkie and I read every email that comes > through, I've talked to a number of people who were unable to find > important information because of the high level of discussion on here. > > I'd like to perhaps suggest that we might want to reserve > free-sklyarov for: > > - event coordination > - tactical coordination > - announcements > - event reports > - press sightings > - Dmitry-related URLs > > We could then have another list ("free-sklyarov-discuss"?) that would > be for such things as: > > - analysis of Dmitry's arrest, culpability, etc. > - screeds against Adobe, the USA, Mueller, etc. > - trolling Declan > - general DMCA discussion > - general civil liberties discussion > > The fact is that we're awash in enthusiasm without coordination. We -- > this list -- need to stay focussed on MAKING THINGS HAPPEN, and push > aside everything else. > > I'm not saying the discussion isn't valuable or useful, but it's > overwhelming the strategy here, and we really need to stay focused on > strategy. > > Monday, July 30th may be the biggest day in our short history as an > effort. We _NEED_ to go BIG. And we're not going to get there if we > can't work together. > > ~Klepht > > -- > klepht@eleutheria.org > http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From jason at d13.com Fri Jul 27 17:49:43 2001 From: jason at d13.com (jason@d13.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Science Friday interview Message-ID: <20010727174943.D28610@d13.com> here's the URL's for the Science Friday interview with Robin Gross... It's the first 9 minutes... 14.4kbps: http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/totn/20010727.totn.ram 28.8kbps: http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/totn/20010727.totn.rmm From krw5 at qwest.net Fri Jul 27 13:09:50 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:03 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What was that russian chant? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20010727124538.K32630@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> References: <20010727124538.K32630@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <01072713095005.16785@stumpy> On Friday 27 July 2001 12:45, Vadim Kogan wrote: > Here's how it goes: > > Chto my hotim? (What do we want?) > Svobody Dime! (Free Dima (short of Dmitry)) > Kogda my hotim? (When do we want?) > Seichas (Now) or Prjamo seichas (Right now) > > Lemme try to give a better version for people who want to learn the sounds: > > Shto my* hoti'm? > Swabo'dy Di'me! > Kagda my* hoti'm? > Seicha's! (Pria'mo Seicha's) > > an apostrophe (') after a letter (or two letter in case there is no simple > transliteration) means the accent. > > * I do not know how to properly show the second sound in "my". Why it looks "We" in Russian (Cyrillic: MbI, translated above as "my") is pronounced similarly to Spanish "muy" with a very short duration on the "u" ...if anyone cares...and knows Spanish. As opposed to English 'm AH ee' -rk From mark at blorch.org Fri Jul 27 17:50:21 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Splitting the List In-Reply-To: <877kwtdhf9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> References: <877kwtdhf9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <0107271750210A.00995@bilbo.blorch.org> On Friday 27 July 2001 17:30, Klepht wrote: > We could then have another list ("free-sklyarov-discuss"?) that would > be for such things as: > - trolling Declan Or this could be a mailing list itself? free-sklyarov-troll-declan And if that gets too busy... free-sklyarov-troll-declan-announce free-sklyarov-troll-declan-discuss free-sklyarov-troll-declan-tactics Mark (snortle) From mlc67 at columbia.edu Fri Jul 27 17:53:34 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Splitting the List In-Reply-To: <877kwtdhf9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 05:30:02PM -0700 References: <877kwtdhf9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010727175334.D2754@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> I'm inclined to agree. HOWEVER, there's the problem that people, in an attempt to reach everybody, would inevitably cross-post, and so those of us one both lists would end up getting twice as much email. So, for the moment, I have to vote no. mike On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 05:30:02PM -0700, Klepht wrote: > I'd like to suggest that perhaps we need to split this list in two. -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // current location: berekely, ca, us // ph: +1 (646) 382-7220 // FREE DMITRY! See http://freesklyarov.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010727/66b8f041/attachment.pgp From kastlyn at unixtribe.net Fri Jul 27 17:57:07 2001 From: kastlyn at unixtribe.net (Kastlyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mandatory warning labels of access restrictions In-Reply-To: <20010727200014.B32270@cluebot.com> Message-ID: On the contrary. We're not going to go away, and it will be hard for them to fight us when we're protesting on a regular basis, and boycotting use-restricted media. -=Amie=- On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote: > Reality check: You folks probably aren't even going to get the mild > reform of the DMCA that Boucher proposed through Congress. What makes > you think AAP/RIAA/MPAA/BSA are going to enthusiastically back > legislation that makes their products unpalatable? Hint: They won't. > > -Declan > > > On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 05:09:00PM -0400, Andrew Lawrence wrote: > > On July 27, 2001 04:44 pm, Xcott Craver wrote: > > > Hey, since some people want mandatory labeling of genetically > > > modified or irradiated food, what if media required mandatory > > > warning labels of any (a) usage restrictions conflicting with > > > fair use, or (b) security features that may raise privacy issues? > > > > I think its a great idea. One I hope to see implemented in any revision of > > Canada's copyright right act. i.e. > > > > "Your fair use of this book is restricted" > > "You may only read this book once" > > "Your right to copy CD is impaired" > > > > Either that, or if a publsiher wishes to restrict the rights of fair use or > > first sale through an onerous license, then they must give up their > > copyright. i.e. You can't have your cake and eat it too. > > > > -- > > Andrew Lawrence > > Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net > > 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 > > Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 27 18:01:16 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Monday, another place? In-Reply-To: <200107271916.MAA22772@shell3.ba.best.com> References: <200107271916.MAA22772@shell3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <87lml9c1er.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "ES" == Ethan Straffin writes: SB> I know the protest on Monday has been plannned for the federal SB> building, I just wanted to bring up a second place that also SB> might wanted to be visited. I beleive people should also be SB> protesting outside of Diane Feinstein office. ES> Protesting at Feinstein's offices is always a good idea, just ES> on general principle. The Sklyarov affair is certainly as ES> good a reason as any. ;) First, I agree that it sounds good to do an event chez DiFi. However, I'd like to suggest that this be a DIFFERENT event, on a different day, for the following reasons: 1) To get permits, we had to state an agenda to the police and an exact "parade route." If we deviate as a group from this route, it invalidates our permit and the cops can close down our event. This would be bad. 2) It's probably good to stay focused* on the U S ATTORNEY at this point. This office must remain in our sites like a laser hot beam of hot laser light rays. We want them to know that WE know that they have the ability to drop the case and release Dmitry AT ANY TIME. We'd also like to drive this point home with the media. 3) Having a different event on the _same_ day would split us up and mean we had smaller numbers. Bad, bad, bad. So, I'd like to suggest we bank this idea until after Monday. ~Klepht * "stay focused" appears to be my catchphrase for the day. -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From salgak at speakeasy.net Fri Jul 27 18:10:19 2001 From: salgak at speakeasy.net (Keith A. Glass (home email)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mandatory warning labels of access restrictions In-Reply-To: <20010727200014.B32270@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <001101c11702$120b7a00$0201a8c0@speakeasy.org> Declan. . . You a REAL ray of sunshine today, you know that ??? And would you PLEASE get off the fence: either be a journalist or be a activist, but for Ghod's sake, CHOOSE. . . -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Declan McCullagh Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 8:00 PM To: Andrew Lawrence Cc: Xcott Craver; Michael L. Love; Izel Sulam; free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Mandatory warning labels of access restrictions Reality check: You folks probably aren't even going to get the mild reform of the DMCA that Boucher proposed through Congress. What makes you think AAP/RIAA/MPAA/BSA are going to enthusiastically back legislation that makes their products unpalatable? Hint: They won't. -Declan On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 05:09:00PM -0400, Andrew Lawrence wrote: > On July 27, 2001 04:44 pm, Xcott Craver wrote: > > Hey, since some people want mandatory labeling of genetically > > modified or irradiated food, what if media required mandatory > > warning labels of any (a) usage restrictions conflicting with > > fair use, or (b) security features that may raise privacy issues? > > I think its a great idea. One I hope to see implemented in any revision of > Canada's copyright right act. i.e. > > "Your fair use of this book is restricted" > "You may only read this book once" > "Your right to copy CD is impaired" > > Either that, or if a publsiher wishes to restrict the rights of fair use or > first sale through an onerous license, then they must give up their > copyright. i.e. You can't have your cake and eat it too. > > -- > Andrew Lawrence > Smoke & Mirrors http://www.smoke-and-mirrors.net > 134A Leslie Street, Toronto, Ont CANADA M4M 3C7 > Tel: +1 416 461 8708 Fax: +1 416 461 1758 > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Jul 27 18:13:20 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Sat. Protest (flyers passed out) In-Reply-To: <001f01c116f0$f4ff03c0$0200a8c0@jwin> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, roylo wrote: > Doesn anyone know if any student is going to be around on the campus around > 9:00am in Stanford? 9am. On a summer. Saturday. morning. I would strongly recommend holding off until 11am at the very earliest to get any reasonable number of people coming through. And given that it's a Saturday, you're probably better off leafletting downtown (University Avenue area near campus) rather than on campus proper. If you do leaflet on campus, I guess you should find the Gates building (their CS department's bldg) to get people who are (or should be) most interested in the matter. Best of luck tomorrow! -- -alexf From mlc67 at columbia.edu Fri Jul 27 18:28:50 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:04 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Monday, another place? In-Reply-To: <7b7ea7cbfc.7cbfc7b7ea@scccd.org>; from smb23@csufresno.edu on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 08:48:24AM -0700 References: <7b7ea7cbfc.7cbfc7b7ea@scccd.org> Message-ID: <20010727182850.E2754@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> I'm sorry, but I must have missed something. What exactly is Feinstein's specific role in any of this? Or do you just dislike her? Remember that every Congressperson from both parties voted for DMCA. There are plenty of politicians I dislike (most of them, actually). Protesting the US attorney's office makes sense because he is the one prosecuting Dmitry. On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 08:48:24AM -0700, Steve M Bibayoff wrote: > I know the protest on Monday has been plannned for the federal building, > I just wanted to bring up a second place that also might wanted to be > visited. I beleive people should also be protesting outside of Diane > Feinstein office. She has one in SF also. All CA offices: > http://www.senate.gov/~feinstein/california_offices.html -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // current location: berekely, ca, us // ph: +1 (646) 382-7220 // FREE DMITRY! See http://freesklyarov.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010727/d65e46a7/attachment.pgp From krw5 at qwest.net Fri Jul 27 16:53:29 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Was a law even broken? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010727163450.00ad0150@127.0.0.1> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010727163450.00ad0150@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <01072716532901.17153@stumpy> On Friday 27 July 2001 16:36, Nathan Bushyager wrote: > I apologize if anyone gets this twice, the first time it told me I was not > a list member because I sent it with a different reply address. > > I have seen many messages on this list which complain about the nature of > the DMCA and whether it can be applied to foreign citizens. I am writing > this message to promote a discussion on whether Dimitry actually violated > the DMCA. While I believe that the DMCA is both wrong and > unconstitutional, I do not believe that arguing these points will actually > help to free Dimitry, at least in the near future. I have read the FBI > compliant and believe that Dimitry was arrested for the following reasons: > Nathan, Many of us have looked into the details of Title 17, Section 1201. I think all who have agree the letter of the law has teeth in this case. However, one of these threads was already killed once in the name of not making prosecution's work any easier than it has to be. Please kill this one again! ...or at least continue this using an encryption method of your own devising which DMCA precludes the Authorities from circumventing. Oh, wait, sorry... Section 1201 Paragraph (e) allows the gov to circumvent in the name of the State anything you devise. You have no rights to privacy against the U.S. gov. -rk From robertl1 at home.com Fri Jul 27 18:50:53 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Splitting the List In-Reply-To: <877kwtdhf9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010727184743.028976b0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> At 05:30 PM 7/27/01 -0700, you wrote: >I'd like to suggest that perhaps we need to split this list in two. I would go for that. I too am a junkie but there is value in having this list focus on the immediate problem of freeing Dmitry while a free-sklyarov-discuss list can go after more general issues pretty much exactly as you have suggested. I guess that is just a longwinded way to say ... me too. Bob La Quey From kris at firstworld.net Fri Jul 27 18:53:01 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Splitting the List In-Reply-To: <20010727175334.D2754@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> References: <877kwtdhf9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <877kwtdhf9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010727184609.00a7e448@pop.firstworld.net> At 05:53 PM 7/27/2001 -0700, mike castleman wrote: >I'm inclined to agree. HOWEVER, there's the problem that people, in an >attempt to reach everybody, would inevitably cross-post, and so those >of us one both lists would end up getting twice as much email. So, for >the moment, I have to vote no. > >mike There maybe some people that are rude and cross post, but I'm thinking that there are enough MissInternetManners people on the list to kindly point out the error of their ways and tell them how annoying cross posting is. I'm really in favor of splitting the list between the Do-ers and the Talkers as we Do-ers have enough trouble organizing events without having to deal with all the extraneous noise... not that the noise isn't entertaining and informative ;) Kris From mark at blorch.org Fri Jul 27 19:28:02 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Monday, another place? In-Reply-To: <20010727182850.E2754@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> References: <7b7ea7cbfc.7cbfc7b7ea@scccd.org> <20010727182850.E2754@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <01072719280200.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> On Friday 27 July 2001 18:28, mike castleman wrote: > I'm sorry, but I must have missed something. What exactly is > Feinstein's specific role in any of this? Or do you just dislike her? > Remember that every Congressperson from both parties voted for DMCA. Well, Feinstein is one of our senators, is a rather powerful person in the USG, and is a rather strong supporter of the DCMA. You could also make the argument that bringing this strongly to the attention of our *elected* representatives is the better move. In that the DoJ is charged with enforcing the law, not making the law. If the DoJ believes the law has been broken, they really have the obligation and duty to prosecute even if half the country is chanting outside their windows. IAC, I think we'd head into analysis paralysis territory if we worry about being *too* specific. The point being to send our government a message that we, the voters, don't approve. Making that point to an elected representative is valid I think. > There are plenty of politicians I dislike (most of them, > actually). Protesting the US attorney's office makes sense because he > is the one prosecuting Dmitry. But, again, without Congressional (or Judicial) intervention, *can the DoJ back off on its own? It might not even be a matter of "will." They have a duty to enforce the law. Even if they did happen to think the law wrong headed and unpopular. Congress made this mess. They voted for this atrocity of a law over everybody's objections (except, that is, the money belching corporate lobbiests). They *are ultimately responsible. And they are accountable to us (at least in theory eh?). I think it's valid to tell Feinstein "you helped make this mess, now clean it up!" Mark (my half yen's worth for today) From edwardsj1 at tastytronic.net Fri Jul 27 19:39:56 2001 From: edwardsj1 at tastytronic.net (Jack Edwards) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Monday, another place? In-Reply-To: <01072719280200.26015@bilbo.blorch.org>; from mark@blorch.org on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 07:28:02PM -0700 References: <7b7ea7cbfc.7cbfc7b7ea@scccd.org> <20010727182850.E2754@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> <01072719280200.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <20010727213956.F1935@tastytronic.net> Quoting Mark K. Bilbo: > On Friday 27 July 2001 18:28, mike castleman wrote: > > I'm sorry, but I must have missed something. What exactly is > > Feinstein's specific role in any of this? Or do you just dislike her? > > Remember that every Congressperson from both parties voted for DMCA. > > Well, Feinstein is one of our senators, is a rather powerful person in the > USG, and is a rather strong supporter of the DCMA. She also happens to sit on the Senate Judiciary Committee. -- ------------------------------------------------------ Jack D. Edwards: edwardsj1@tastytronic.net User of Free Software: http://tastytronic.net/ufo Aspiring Tech Writer: http://flynn.zork.net/~edwardsj1 From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 27 19:43:15 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Monday, another place? In-Reply-To: <01072719280200.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> References: <7b7ea7cbfc.7cbfc7b7ea@scccd.org> <20010727182850.E2754@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> <01072719280200.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <8766cdbwos.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "MKB" == Mark K Bilbo writes: MKB> If the DoJ believes the law has been broken, they really have MKB> the obligation and duty to prosecute even if half the country MKB> is chanting outside their windows. This is, happily, completely untrue. If prosecutors feel that they don't have enough evidence to press a case, or that the "crime" committed is not in The People's interest to pursue, they can choose to drop the case. This happens all the time. I don't have numbers, but I believe the majority of criminal cases do not actually go all the way to sentencing. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) Unless the US Attorney's Office in Northern California is very blind, they should see by now that this case is weak at best, especially without the support of the original complainant, Adobe. Right now, our focus is to convince them to hurry up and drop the case. Quit dragging their heels, quit making political hay out of having "taken down" a "cybercriminal," and let Dmitry out of jail. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From mark at blorch.org Fri Jul 27 19:42:13 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Monday, another place? In-Reply-To: <20010727213956.F1935@tastytronic.net> References: <7b7ea7cbfc.7cbfc7b7ea@scccd.org> <01072719280200.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> <20010727213956.F1935@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: <01072719421303.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> On Friday 27 July 2001 19:39, Jack Edwards wrote: > Quoting Mark K. Bilbo: > > On Friday 27 July 2001 18:28, mike castleman wrote: > > > I'm sorry, but I must have missed something. What exactly is > > > Feinstein's specific role in any of this? Or do you just dislike her? > > > Remember that every Congressperson from both parties voted for DMCA. > > > > Well, Feinstein is one of our senators, is a rather powerful person in > > the USG, and is a rather strong supporter of the DCMA. > > She also happens to sit on the Senate Judiciary Committee. That I did not know. But it puts her definitely in the "people I wanna wake up" category. Mark From robertl1 at home.com Fri Jul 27 19:58:02 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] We need the serious civil rights advocates Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010727194033.02eebd10@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Ok folks, the first round is over and their is some good news and some bad news. The good news is that Adobe backed down seeing an obvious PR disaster driven by the protest. The bad news is that the EFF is now up against the big boys in the criminal inJustice system now. They will need all of the help they can get from people who have been there and done that. This is not the time or place for amateurs. So let's please quit playing the lone ranger and do all we can to get the ACLU, Amnesty International, and for a real league with the devil let's try MilbergWiess. I have written email and called all of these organizations but it will be a big help if people can actually find some free time, go to their offices, and solicit their help. Here are some starting points from which with a little surfing you can turn up local offices and contact information. http://www.aclu.org/ http://www.amnesty.org/ http://www.amnesty-usa.org/ http://www.milberg.com/ Help me grow this list of allies. The civil rights movement was not invented last week and we need to bring in as many of the old troops as well as the new blood. These old line organizations are well organized and can help both in turning out the troops and in providing resources to the legal effort. Free Dmitry! As usual Google is great. For instance, "aclu san francisco" turns up http://www.aclusf.org/ and so is often faster than thrashing around in a large organizations web site. Onward, Bob La Quey From mark at blorch.org Fri Jul 27 20:03:38 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Monday, another place? In-Reply-To: <8766cdbwos.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> References: <7b7ea7cbfc.7cbfc7b7ea@scccd.org> <01072719280200.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> <8766cdbwos.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <01072720033805.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> On Friday 27 July 2001 19:43, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "MKB" == Mark K Bilbo writes: > > MKB> If the DoJ believes the law has been broken, they really have > MKB> the obligation and duty to prosecute even if half the country > MKB> is chanting outside their windows. > > This is, happily, completely untrue. If prosecutors feel that they > don't have enough evidence to press a case, or that the "crime" > committed is not in The People's interest to pursue, they can choose > to drop the case. This happens all the time. Completely? I can't agree. They have an obligation to uphold the law. Even if it makes lots of people mad. Now, don't get me wrong, I think this case is purely political and motivated largely by the money belching machines of the corporate lobbiests. I've read the complaint over and over and can't find how they get from "there's this website over there" to "so he's trafficking!" (Long aside: my roommate actually downloaded the entire DMCA text and has commented that so far as he can wade through the legaleese, there *does appear to be a provision of "offering to the public" that could be interpreted *awfully broadly and even to the point of violating the 1st Amendment in spades... the thing that bothers me is that its one of those cases that could end up being fought all the way to SCOTUS before it's overturned and, oh man, that's a long road for Dmitry... the upshot of his reading of the atrocity of a law is that--get this--the law says we have "fair use" rights but outlaws any and all tools we could use to actually *act on those rights... the DoJ could wind through the courts for forever claiming "this doesn't infringe on their rights, look, it SAYS they have rights in this text right here!" and wiggle their way around the fact that having a right you have no right to excersize is... not having a right at all) Anyway, I'm just speaking off the top of my head. In *theory, I wouldn't want a DoJ that is too easily swayed by the "passions of the moment." Law enforcement would be uneven and spastic. The law could be overturned by some noisy protests. But I do agree they have a badly flawed case and should be responsible enough to give up now and NOT persue it. IAC, the post I was responding to was questioning protesting Feinstein. I just think that protesting our representatives is as valid as protesting the DoJ. Maybe even shade more so? They *are* supposed to be (the previous supposed is heavy with sarcasm of course) our representatives in the USG who can go to the DoJ and smack them. AND it is Congress who created this monstrosity of a law. > I don't have numbers, but I believe the majority of criminal cases do > not actually go all the way to sentencing. (Someone correct me if I'm > wrong.) I'm pretty sure you're dead on with this one. > Unless the US Attorney's Office in Northern California is very blind, > they should see by now that this case is weak at best, especially > without the support of the original complainant, Adobe. I hope they're seeing it. It's a bad case and would waste time, money, and good will to persue. > Right now, our focus is to convince them to hurry up and drop the > case. Quit dragging their heels, quit making political hay out of > having "taken down" a "cybercriminal," and let Dmitry out of jail. I agree. But I was just rattling on about whether it made sense to protest the Senator. I think barking at Feinstein is also valid. She helped make this mess, she oughtta help clean it up. Mark From mlc67 at columbia.edu Fri Jul 27 20:22:25 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Monday, another place? In-Reply-To: <01072720033805.26015@bilbo.blorch.org>; from mark@blorch.org on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 08:03:38PM -0700 References: <7b7ea7cbfc.7cbfc7b7ea@scccd.org> <01072719280200.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> <8766cdbwos.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <01072720033805.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <20010727202225.F2754@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 08:03:38PM -0700, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: > Anyway, I'm just speaking off the top of my head. In *theory, I > wouldn't want a DoJ that is too easily swayed by the "passions of > the moment." Law enforcement would be uneven and spastic. The law > could be overturned by some noisy protests. So, Congress enacts bad law. People protest DOJ. Law doesn't get enforced. And this would be bad why, exactly? 'Twould be better, of course, if bad laws never got written at all, but that's clearly not happening. BTW, this is another reason not to split the list into two: this thread started quite on-topic as a discussion about a protest to hold or not hold, but now we are talking about some kinda abstract theory. Which list should we be on? -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // current location: berekely, ca, us // ph: +1 (646) 382-7220 // FREE DMITRY! See http://freesklyarov.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010727/d12408d9/attachment.pgp From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 27 20:23:47 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Monday, another place? In-Reply-To: <01072720033805.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> References: <7b7ea7cbfc.7cbfc7b7ea@scccd.org> <01072719280200.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> <8766cdbwos.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <01072720033805.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <87hevxhh30.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "MKB" == Mark K Bilbo writes: MKB> I agree. But I was just rattling on about whether it made MKB> sense to protest the Senator. I think barking at Feinstein is MKB> also valid. She helped make this mess, she oughtta help clean MKB> it up. I agree that DiFi is culpable and should be called on the carpet. HOWEVER, I'd still like to request -- for reasons already mentioned -- that we table the subject until after Monday. Having spent the last two days running from office to office _begging_ for permits from scowling police officers and civil servants ("Why didn't you make these applications two months ago?"), I really dread the idea of trying to include a visit to the Frilled One's office on Monday. Really, please, give a poor freedom-lover some peace. B-) ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From byoungvt at yahoo.com Fri Jul 27 20:36:38 2001 From: byoungvt at yahoo.com (brad young) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Permit? Message-ID: <20010728033638.17157.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> I agree we Klepht should focus our protest as planned. But isn't it weird that you have to Get a Permit to exercise your right to protest and freely assemble? Did someone remember to get the Permit before the Boston Tea Party???? From noring at olagrande.net Fri Jul 27 20:43:28 2001 From: noring at olagrande.net (noring@olagrande.net) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dvorak's column on Sklyarov/DMCA Message-ID: <200107280343.WAA17704@og1.olagrande.net> http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s%253D1500%2526a%253D9088,00.asp Jon Noring From kris at firstworld.net Fri Jul 27 20:47:34 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:05 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Monday, another place? In-Reply-To: <87hevxhh30.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> References: <01072720033805.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> <7b7ea7cbfc.7cbfc7b7ea@scccd.org> <01072719280200.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> <8766cdbwos.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <01072720033805.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010727204513.011d5b68@pop.firstworld.net> At 08:23 PM 7/27/2001 -0700, Klepht wrote: >Having spent the last two days running from office to office _begging_ >for permits from scowling police officers and civil servants ("Why >didn't you make these applications two months ago?"), I really dread >the idea of trying to include a visit to the Frilled One's office on >Monday. > Damn Bureaucrats. Hey Klepht, when you're done running around and filling out permits how's about you write up a FAQ on how to hold a protest in SF. If the USAG gets stubborn, we might be at this awhile. Kris From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 27 20:50:36 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Permit? In-Reply-To: <20010728033638.17157.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010728033638.17157.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <87r8v1g19v.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "by" == brad young writes: by> I agree we Klepht should focus our protest as planned. But by> isn't it weird that you have to Get a Permit to exercise your by> right to protest and freely assemble? I have had this thought many times in the last 48 hours. by> Did someone remember to get the Permit before the Boston Tea by> Party???? Yeah, but they only did that one once. Even if (please please please) Dmitry's freed this weekend, I want to have a good relationship with the Powers That Be here in the City for future events. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 27 20:51:46 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Monday, another place? In-Reply-To: <20010727202225.F2754@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> References: <7b7ea7cbfc.7cbfc7b7ea@scccd.org> <01072719280200.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> <8766cdbwos.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <01072720033805.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> <20010727202225.F2754@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <87n15pg17x.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "mc" == mike castleman writes: mc> BTW, this is another reason not to split the list into two: mc> this thread started quite on-topic as a discussion about a mc> protest to hold or not hold, but now we are talking about some mc> kinda abstract theory. Which list should we be on? OK, OK! You're right on this one. I concede your valid point. Perhaps if we all make an effort to remember that this list is the FOCAL POINT of ALL FREE DMITRY ACTIVITY, in the ENTIRE WORLD, and that it's a crucial resource, and that if we pollute it or dilute it we will hurt ourselves and our cause. I think also that some other forms of information dispersal are coming on line tonight, so that may ameliorate the problem somewhat. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Fri Jul 27 20:54:46 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Calendar Editor Found! Message-ID: <87itgdg12x.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Dan Martinez is working with the freesklyarov.org folks to make a coordinated calendar happen. He is truly a gentleman among gentlemen, and he deserves everyone's (off-list) kudos and praise. When you're interacting with him in the future, remember that you didn't step forward to take his job, and maybe you'll treat him a little nicer. B-) I think if anyone wants to help him out, they should talk to him directly. I'm just the guy that got all bitchy about the calendar, not really someone who can do anything about it. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From mark at blorch.org Fri Jul 27 20:54:47 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Monday, another place? In-Reply-To: <87hevxhh30.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> References: <7b7ea7cbfc.7cbfc7b7ea@scccd.org> <01072720033805.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> <87hevxhh30.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <01072720544707.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> On Friday 27 July 2001 20:23, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "MKB" == Mark K Bilbo writes: > > MKB> I agree. But I was just rattling on about whether it made > MKB> sense to protest the Senator. I think barking at Feinstein is > MKB> also valid. She helped make this mess, she oughtta help clean > MKB> it up. > > I agree that DiFi is culpable and should be called on the carpet. > > HOWEVER, I'd still like to request -- for reasons already mentioned -- > that we table the subject until after Monday. > > Having spent the last two days running from office to office _begging_ > for permits from scowling police officers and civil servants ("Why > didn't you make these applications two months ago?"), I really dread > the idea of trying to include a visit to the Frilled One's office on > Monday. > > Really, please, give a poor freedom-lover some peace. B-) > > ~Klepht Heh. Hey, don't take it personally. I was just discussing and pontificating and stuff. I gotta get my rear in gear over here too. Trying to put flyers together for tomorrow afternoon. And, anyway, right now I think it's "find an office and PROTEST" time. And I think getting out and educating is more important than too much quibbling over exactly which office is the better to protest/rally at eh? Peace. Free Dmitry! Mark (getting bleary eyed) From moeller at scireview.de Fri Jul 27 21:10:11 2001 From: moeller at scireview.de (Erik Moeller) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Splitting the List In-Reply-To: <877kwtdhf9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <3B625743.19284.1ACB216@localhost> On 27 Jul 2001, at 17:30, Klepht wrote: > I'd like to suggest that perhaps we need to split this list in two. Good suggestion; the Freenet project has made very good experiences with such a strategy. They have a "chat" list that is basically for everything of secondary importance and a very focused development list. People actually abide by the rules, but you need to remind them of the rules from time to time. Put a list description in the footer: ## free-sklyarov is a focused mailing list for coordination, announcements, reports, press sightings and URLs. free-sklyarov-chat is a general mailing list for discussions; if you feel your mail is off-topic on the main list, please send it to chat. To unsubscribe from either list, visit .. It is important that people do not have to resubscribe for the focused list in order to preserve the momentum, therefore the transition phase -- getting chatters to use chat -- will be a bit clumsy. Just my 2 Pf. Regards, Erik -- Scientific Reviewer, Freelancer, Humanist -- Berlin/Germany Phone: +49-30-45491008 - Web: The Origins of Peace and Violence: "History is full of people who, out of fear or ignorance or the lust for power, have destroyed treasures of immeasurable value which truly belong to all of us. We must not let it happen again." -- Carl Sagan From crawford at goingware.com Fri Jul 27 21:13:39 2001 From: crawford at goingware.com (Michael D. Crawford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Permit? Message-ID: <3B623BF3.B19B0151@goingware.com> I agree you shouldn't need a permit to peaceably assembly, but the actual position of the supreme court is that while governments cannot restrict you from exercising a constitutional right, they can regulate the manner in which you do it. An example of that is that the court has upheld the right of cities to use zoning laws to restrict pornography vendors from doing business in certain neighborhoods, near schools, for example. The restrictions have to be applied equally. For example, laws that ban tobacco advertisements near schools were recently struck down. The court commented that they would have upheld laws based on zoning that restricted advertising equally for all sorts of products, but they couldn't permit one that focussed on tobacco. Restrictions on rights receive certain levels of scrutiny by the court. While free speech is guaranteed, some speech is freer than others. Commercial speech doesn't receive strict scrutiny, while political speech does. Mike -- Michael D. Crawford GoingWare Inc. - Expert Software Development and Consulting http://www.goingware.com crawford@goingware.com Tilting at Windmills for a Better Tomorrow. From bill at leflaw.net Fri Jul 27 22:11:42 2001 From: bill at leflaw.net (Bill Evans) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] White paper Message-ID: <3B62498E.F54ED903@leflaw.net> The white paper can be found at http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/doc/ipnii/ or in PDF at http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/doc/ipnii/ipnii.pdf MS Word 6.0 at http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/doc/ipnii/ipnii.doc a zipped postscript file at http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/doc/ipnii/ipniips.zip or in plain old ascii at http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/doc/ipnii/ipnii.txt Hope that helps.... Bill Evans boycott-riaa.com From cyhawk2 at home.com Fri Jul 27 22:34:55 2001 From: cyhawk2 at home.com (Cyhawk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Splitting the List References: <877kwtdhf9.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010727175334.D2754@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <3B624EFF.208D5B22@home.com> I Agree, Perhaps More than Two Lists. One for Urls/Events Etc One for Discussion and One that Contains sends out the Mails from Both. This way you Can stay on Topic, and a specific important notice can reach everyone. Just an idea... mike castleman wrote: > I'm inclined to agree. HOWEVER, there's the problem that people, in an > attempt to reach everybody, would inevitably cross-post, and so those > of us one both lists would end up getting twice as much email. So, for > the moment, I have to vote no. > > mike > > On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 05:30:02PM -0700, Klepht wrote: > > I'd like to suggest that perhaps we need to split this list in two. > > -- > // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu > // current location: berekely, ca, us > // ph: +1 (646) 382-7220 > // FREE DMITRY! See http://freesklyarov.org/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature From tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca Fri Jul 27 22:58:33 2001 From: tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Splitting the List In-Reply-To: <3B624EFF.208D5B22@home.com> Message-ID: Today was (it's already tomorrow) the first day when I deleted numerous messages from the list without reading them. Splitting the list sounds like a necessity. However, many of you have demonstrated several disadvantages. So here is an alternate solution: Keep the list as one. Use predetermined keywords in the subject line to indicate the nature of the email. Change the subject of the email as soon as the contents change dramatically from the original message. Some suggested keywords: URL: to indicate a url to media coverage or a letter available online ANN: announcement of new local mailing lists and, protests, etc.. UPDATE: updates on the Dmitry's case including official letters. These keywords should be removed from the subject when replying to an email. (although RE in subject should be sufficient in most cases). This process should facilitate the use of manual (human) and automatic filters to select which messages and threads to read and which to ignore. TAA ----------------------------------------------------- Tony Abou-Assaleh Graduate Student, Department of Computer Science University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, Canada, N2L 3G1 Office: DC2503 Phone: (519) 888-4567 Ext. 3399 Email: taa@acm.org -----------------------[THE END]--------------------- On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Cyhawk wrote: > I Agree, Perhaps More than Two Lists. > > One for Urls/Events Etc > One for Discussion > and One that Contains sends out the Mails from Both. > > This way you Can stay on Topic, and a specific important notice can reach > everyone. > > Just an idea... > > > mike castleman wrote: > > > I'm inclined to agree. HOWEVER, there's the problem that people, in an > > attempt to reach everybody, would inevitably cross-post, and so those > > of us one both lists would end up getting twice as much email. So, for > > the moment, I have to vote no. > > > > mike > > > > On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 05:30:02PM -0700, Klepht wrote: > > > I'd like to suggest that perhaps we need to split this list in two. > > > > -- > > // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu > > // current location: berekely, ca, us > > // ph: +1 (646) 382-7220 > > // FREE DMITRY! See http://freesklyarov.org/ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From kastlyn at unixtribe.net Fri Jul 27 23:00:28 2001 From: kastlyn at unixtribe.net (Kastlyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:06 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] freesklyarov.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I put up a local page for the Salt Lake City protests at http://www.unixtribe.net/slc/ =} Though it's unclear at this point if we will be participating in Monday's protest, I'll post updates there, and I'm sure we'll have a leaf-letting, at the very least. =} -=Amie=- On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, C. Scott Ananian wrote: > with regard to the "main calendar page" request from freesklyarov. > > we're doing all we can here just to keep things up-to-date. we've been > trying to get local groups to manage their own local info pages, but they > seem to enjoy filling them with out-of-date information, and instead of > emailing free@freesklyarov.org or press@freesklyarov with updates, they > mail free-sklyarov@zork.net, which has enough traffic to drown hannibal's > elephants in. *please* help us out! freesklyarov.org regards its mission > as being a *portal* to relevant information, not creating it on its own, > as we simply can't keep up otherwise. If you'd like to see a calendar > page, feel free to create it, host it on your machine, and send us a > pointer. we'd be glad to link to it. > --s > > Indonesia non-violent protest Milosevic algorithm UKUSA for Dummies > SSBN 743 supercomputer Sudan Honduras mustard AES SEAL Team 6 Albanian > ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian ) > -- > "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is > all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970, > minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4. > -- > [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/] > #!/usr/bin/perl -w > # 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz > # MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout > # arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order > $_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5; > $_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d= > unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d > >>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9 > ,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t > ^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271)) > [$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Jul 27 23:42:07 2001 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big bunch of Sklyarov links Message-ID: <20010727234206.A9784@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> (I know this duplicates in part the link-farms being kept at http://freesklyarov.org/ and elsewhere. No slight is intended to such fine folks, who are extremely welcome to use anything from it that's worthwhile.) Flyers: http://www.pigdog.org/dmitry/free_dmitry_protest_july_30_black.pdf for black-and-white copiers http://www.pigdog.org/dmitry/free_dmitry_protest_july_30_red.pdf for two-colour or better copiers http://www.tabinda.com/freedmitry/ Tabinda Khan's upstream version http://zgp.org/~dmarti/free_dmitry/ More of Tabinda Khan's, and Jamba Dunn's http://www.adric.net/flyer/ adric@adric.net's http://quadium.net/random/free_dmitri.pdf vsync@quadium.net's http://www.paultopia.net/adobe/flyer.html Paul Gowder http://two-bit.northpark.edu/free-sklyarov/ pedro@tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) http://zork.net/~sexpot ?? (Flyer for the Monday, July 23, New York City event) [ http://izel.sulam.com/boycottadobe/statements.html izel@sulam.com (Izel Sulam) -- currently unreachable ] http://www.npl.uiuc.edu/~fegray/sklyarov-poster.ps fegray@npl.uiuc.edu (Fred Gray) http://acg.media.mit.edu/people/fry/dmitry/ Ben Fry Pictures: [ http://umklaydet.com/nyc Paula Labruciano / Leonid Gorkin - moved to: ] http://www.nylug.org/protest/ Paula Labruciano / Leonid Gorkin http://www.nylug.org/pictures/ various persons http://64.81.65.40/dmca/ gbroiles@well.com (Greg Broiles) http://www.underwhelm.org/freedima/ http://www.premier1.net/~rwkramer http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/protest_images/ Ruben Safir http://www.xeni.net/sklyarovla.htm ttp://www.killyourtv.com/990/dmca/ http://www.underwhelm.org/freedima [ http://ooz.net/~neale/freedima/ Pictures link is broken. ] http://sjrally.n3.net/ http://nc.flyingbuttmonkeys.com/~ehintz/ http://www.mountainbitwarrior.com/RANTS/DMCA/010723/ http://protest.techwood.net/ http://two-bit.ufo.chicago.il.us/~pictures/ http://www.ropnet.ru/ogonyok/ksnsoft/miting/ Logos: http://LuisGuillermo.com/libero_en.gif http://LuisGuillermo.com/libero_eo.gif http://LuisGuillermo.com/libero_es.gif http://www.math.niu.edu/~caj/adobe.html Slogans: [ http://izel.sulam.com/boycottadobe/slogans.html -- currently unreachable ] Community Declaration of Support: http://www.dibona.com/dmca/ Dmitry and family: http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/Graphics/ How to pronounce the Russian names: http://csua.berkeley.edu/~alexf/sklyarov/ Letter to Adobe from crawford@goingware.com (Michael D. Crawford): http://goingware.com/freedmitry/ http://www.goingware.com/reputation/ Sundry sites: http://freedmitry.org http://freesklyarov.org http://eff.org http://www.boycottadobe.com/ http://thefreevoice.org/freedmitry.html http://lm.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian/sklyarov http://www.shrouded.net/nmdmitry.htm New Mexico http://portland.indymedia.org/ Portland http://www.paultopia.net/adobe/ Portland http://www.cs.unm.edu/~sonjat/protest.html Denver http://woozle.org/~neale/sklyarov/ Seattle http://seattle.freesklyarov.org/ Seattle http://www.lupercalia.net/adobe/ DC http://ezhe.ru/elcomsoft/ Russia (incl. mailing list) http://www.porsche.ru/dmitry/ Moscow http://ufo.chicago.il.us/free-sklyarov/ Chicago http://freesklyarov.org/boston/ Boston http://boston.freesklyarov.org/ Boston http://www.hackhawk.net/ Los Angeles http://la.freesklyarov.org/ Los Angeles http://www.dmcasucks.org/ Phoenix http://www.sr2c.com/free.html San Jose http://www.shrouded.net/nmdmitry.htm Albuquerque http://www.xenoclast.org/freesklyarov/ UK http://www.underwhelm.org/freedima/ Minnesota http://www.minitru.org/dmca/ Austin http://www.hackeredu.net/ Atlanta Mailing lists: https://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-announce http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov/ http://www.cryptonomicon.net/article.php?sid=38&mode=thread&order=0 [ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/portland-sklyarov-protest deleted ] http://mail.bitmine.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-portland http://woozle.org/mailman/listinfo/seattle-sklyarov http://lists.geekresearch.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/slo-protest San Luis Obispo http://www.dasbistro.com/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-reno http://www.lupercalia.net/mailman/free-dmitry-dc http://ufo.chicago.il.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sklyarov-chicago/ http://sklyarov.ezhe.ru/forum/ Web forum http://hackeredu.net/mailman/listinfo/freedmitry_hackeredu.net Atlanta freesklyarov@hackhawk.net (manually maintained by freesk@hackhawk.net (hackhawk)) Los Angeles http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ Minnesota http://www.dasbistro.com/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-reno/ Reno http://lm.lcs.mit.edu/%7Ecananian/hypermail/dmitry-boston/ Boston http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/austin-dmca Austin http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freesklyarovnc North Carolina Links to various demonstrations' sites: http://www.boycottadobe.com/pages/rallies.html Send event announcements to: calendar@freesklyarov.org Background: http://www.passwords.ru/arrest.htm http://www.elcomsoft.com/aebpr.html http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=168 http://www.planetpdf.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=1542 http://www.planetebook.com/usvsklyarov http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/ http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010717_eff_sklyarov_pr.html http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010723_eff_adobe_sklyarov_pr.html http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/20010723dcma.html http://cryptome.org/usa-v-sklyarov.htm http://securitygeeks.shmoo.com/article.php?story=20010719141720141 [ http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200107/dmca.html removed ] http://www.lethe.com/dmca.htm mirror Adobe public forums: http://www.adobe.com/support/forums/main.html Discussions: http://advogato.com/article/309.html http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/07/17/130226&mode=thread http://news.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=NEWS&action=l&ft=1&board=37172369&sid=37172369&title=Russian%20Hacker%20Arrested%20in%20Las%20Vegas&tid=nmtechhackerarrestdc&date=07-17-2001&url=dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010717/wr/tech_hacker_arrest_dc_1.html http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3D01/07/23/1956254&cid=3D121 Talking points for various audiences http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=01/07/23/2315228&cid=84 Adobe in violation of Russian law http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/07/23/2315228 http://www.infoanarchy.org/ http://sklyarov.woozle.org/ http://www.npr.org/cgi-bin/WebX?14@^39427@.ee6fd16 Touretzky's Gallery of Adobe Remedies: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery Dmitry's original presentation: http://www.download.ru/defcon.ppt Dmitry's presentation in HTML: http://crism.maden.org/ds-defcon.html http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/elcom/ http://koeln.ccc.de/~stefan/dmitry/ds-defcon.html Criminal complaint: http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010707_complaint.html http://www.usaondca.com/press/assets/applets/2001_07_17_sklyarov.pdf Adobe's affadavit was sworn out by Daniel O'Connell, FBI agent with the "High Tech Squad at San Jose", working out of the San Jose Resident Agency, FBI, 950 South Bascom, Suite 3011, San Jose. Press release about issuance of the charge against Sklyarov came from: (Robert S. Mueller III, US Attorney for Northern California, nominee for FBI Director -- but Acting US Attorney for Northern California David Shapiro appears to be in charge of the case)) US Attorney Office 11th Floor, John Burton Federal Building 450 Golden Gate Avenue @ Larkin/Hyde, Box 36055 San Francisco Phone (415) 436-7200 Fax (415) 436-7234 1301 Clay St., Ste. 340S Oakland CA, 94612 Phone (510) 637-3680 Fax (510) 637-3724 280 South First St., Rm. 371 San Jose CA, 95113 Phone (408) 535-5061 Fax (408) 535-5066 Federal Public Defender, Northern District of California http://www.internships-usa.com/fedlaw/fed47.htm Contact: Mr. Eric R. Krebs Chief Research and Writing Attorney Federal Public Defender Northern District of California 450 Golden Gate Avenue 19th Floor San Francisco, CA 94102 Phone: 415-436-7700 FAX: 415-436-7706 The San Jose venue for the US District Court, Northern District of California: http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/CourtInfo.nsf/6f311f8841e7da2488256405006827f0/f3b46c67b334132e88256682007f6ba9?OpenDocument 280 South 1st Street San Jose, CA 95113 Phone: 408-535-5364 US Senate, (SF Bay Area) Senator Diane Feinstein: http://www.senate.gov/~feinstein/ senator@feinstein.senate.gov phone: (202) 224-3841 fax: (202) 228-3954 Senator Dianne Feinstein United States Senate 331 Hart Senate Office Building Washington, DC 20510 Sen. Feinstein's San Francisco office Jim Lazarus, State Director One Post Street @ Montgomery, Suite 2450 San Francisco, CA 94104 415/393-0707 TTY/TDD: 415/249-4785 Senator Barbara Boxer: http://www.senate.gov/~boxer/ senator@boxer.senate.gov phone (DC): (202) 224-3553 phone (SF): (415) 403-0110 fax (SF): (415) 956-6701 Senator Barbara Boxer United States Senate 112 Hart Senate Office Building Washington, DC 20510 US House of Representatives (SF Bay Area) Anna Eschoo, 14th Dist: Belmont - Redwwod Shores through Pescadero, Sunnyvale, Alviso, Cupertino 650 323-2984 408 245-2339 650 323-3498 (fax) Congresswomman Anna Eschoo United States House of Representatives 205 Cannon building Washington, DC 2015 Tom Campbell, 15th Dist: Santa Cruz Co., Saratoga, Santa Clara, San Jose phone (SJ) (408) 371-7337 fax (SJ) (408) 371-7925=20 phone (DC) (202) 225-2631 fax (DC) (202) 225-6788 Congressman Tom Cambell, 15th District United States House of Representatives 2442 Rayburn Bulding Washington, DC 20515 Nancy Pelosi, 8th Dist: San Francisco http://www.house.gov/pelosi/ (415) 556-4862 sf.nancy@mail.house.gov Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi United States House of Representatives 2457 Rayburn Building Washington, DC 20515 Consolate General of Russia in San Francisoc: http://www.vldbros.com/consul/english/main.htm Coverage overviews: http://gnu-darwin.sourceforge.net/news.html http://www.cryptonomicon.net/links.php?op=viewslink&sid=55 http://www.cryptonomicon.net/download.php?op=viewdownload&cid=4 http://www.cryptonomicon.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=FAQ&file=index&myfaq=yes&id_cat=8&categories=Sklyarov+Controversy Send tips, suggestions, media coverage related to the case to: help-sklyarov@eff.org T-shirt: http://www.copyleft.net/item.phtml?page=product_1270_front.phtml Archive of news items: http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=3D170 http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=170 Articles: http://pigdog.org/auto/scary_tech/link/2155.html http://archive.nytimes.com/2001/07/18/technology/18CRYP.html http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/07/17/hacker.arrest.reut/index.html http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45298,00.html http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45342,00.html http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-6592390.html http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/07/17/130226&mode=thread http://securitygeeks.shmoo.com/article.php?story=20010717083820248 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/20444.html http://www.msnbc.com/news/601585.asp http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010717/tc/tech_hacker_arrest_dc_1.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/18/technology/18CRYP.html http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/opinion/dgillmor/dg071801.htm http://www.mccullagh.org/image/7/dmca-protesters-1.html http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/daa-19.07.01-000 http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=3D179=20 http://sf.indymedia.org/display.php?id=101903 http://www.ktnv.com/news/jul01/top0718.asp http://lwn.net/daily/alan-quits-als.php3 http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/201/business/Hacker_s_arrest_decried+.shtml http://www.russ.ru/politics/west/20010720.html http://www.russ.ru/netcult/nasnet/20010719.html http://www.msnbc.com/news/602444.asp?0si=3D-&cp1=3D1 http://noframes.linuxjournal.com/articles/currents/0034.html http://www.law.com/regionals/ca/stories/edt0720a.shtml http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/07/20/199217&mode=thread http://www.publishers.org/home/press/ http://english.pravda.ru/usa/2001/07/18/10431.html http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,45437,00.html http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010720/tc/tech_hacker_arrest_dc_4.html http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010720/n20379514_2.html http://www.ktnv.com/news/jul01/top0718.asp http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/23/technology/23DIGI.html http://www.upside.com/On_Trial/3b589a9d1_yahoo.html http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=3D187 http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=187 http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/07/23/hacker.arrest.reut/ http://www.thestandard.com/article/0,1902,22377,00.html "Alice" eBook http://www.thestandard.com/article/0,1902,22914,00.html "Alice" eBook http://www.techtv.com/news/culture/story/0,24195,3338222,00.html http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/07/23/hacker.arrest.reut/ http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991063 http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nf/20010723/tc/12192_1.html http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/opinions/3642/1/ http://biz.yahoo.com/st/010720/28141.html http://www.contracostatimes.com/computing/stories/o22yael_20010722.htm http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2790369,00.html http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45489,00.html http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=3D190 http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml;?type=technologynews&StoryID=131178 http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/010723/0667.html http://cryptome.org/dmitry-call.htm http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45342,00.html http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010723/tc/hacker_convention_arrest_3.html http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010723/wr/tech_hacker_dc_3.html http://www.pigdog.org/auto/Power_Corrupts/link/2164.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/24/technology/24HACK.html http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5094588,00.html http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1454000/1454489.stm http://public.wsj.com/sn/y/SB995939881811401497.html http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/industry/07/24/hacker.reut/ http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45484,00.html http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/svfront/009903.htm http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-6651535.html http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/20579.html http://www.newsbytes.com/news/01/168248.html http://www.segfault.org/story.phtml?mode=2&id=39ad0ae4-03358920 http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,295013014,00.html http://12.108.175.91/ebookweb/stories/storyReader$114 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/20548.html http://www.ddj.com/news/fullstory.cgi?id=4414 http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/07/24/cyber.sheriff.idg/ http://www.digitalcoastdaily.com/issues/dcw07242001.html http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/07/18/fbi.mueller/ http://www.epccentral.org/dmca.html http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010724/n24319331.html http://www.salon.com/tech/wire/2001/07/24/adobe/ http://www.phototass.com/info/info_base.asp?action=news_info&news_id=57141 http://www.gazeta.ru/2001/07/25/prokurormull.shtml http://www.business2.com/articles/web/0,1653,16542,00.html http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45522,00.html http://biz.yahoo.com/bizwk/010725/u2uwdgj7_smmdbiz41ntqa.html http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45548,00.html http://chronicle.com/free/2001/07/2001072401t.htm http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=196 http://news.globetechnology.com/servlet/GAMArticleHTMLTemplate?tf=globetechnology/TGAM/NewsFullStory.html&cf=globetechnology/tech-config-neutral&slug=TWGEISY&date=20010726 http://www.templetons.com/brad/free.html http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/totn/20010727.totn.ram http://www.pfir.org/dmca-arrest From jono at microshaft.org Fri Jul 27 23:46:31 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] www.anti-dmca.org In-Reply-To: <20010727234206.A9784@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com>; from rick@linuxmafia.com on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 11:42:07PM -0700 References: <20010727234206.A9784@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20010727234631.G33344@networkcommand.com> WTO + WIPO = DMCA? http://www.anti-dmca.org From roo at ufies.org Fri Jul 27 23:53:13 2001 From: roo at ufies.org (Benjamin Krueger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A humble telephone protest suggestion Message-ID: <20010727235313.F14363@ufies.org> Telephone Protest Proposal July 27th, 2001 This is a really easy, yet effective protest, and even folks at work can manage to participate. Essentially, we should choose one day and time designated for calling your 2 congressional representatives, and the US Attorney's Office. The really important part here is voicing your concern to your representatives in as visible a way as possible, and large numbers of voting constituants taking the time to make a telephone call will rouse their attention. Under 18 folks should call too. Just because you can't vote right now doesn't mean you won't be able to vote in a couple years. (You are going to register to vote when you turn 18, right?) I would suggest starting such a protest at 10am your local time. Your representatives' offices will just be starting their day, and a large call volume will turn a lot of heads. I'd suggest the same time (10am PST) for calls to the US Attorney's office in San Fransisco. If the line is busy, hang up and try again until you get a person! Obviously if you can't call at exactly the designated time, try and call sometime that day. Any phone call is better than no phone call at all. Somebody may also want to write some scripts (the acting kind, not the perl kind!) that folks can use when they call. For your representatives, I would suggest stressing your concern over the DMCA, and the fact that it is now being used to repress valid research and violates citizen's rights. For the US Attorney, I would suggest a script that emphasizes your concern that they are acting in an innappropriate manner, that they are violating Dmitry's rights by not providing due process in an expediant manner according to the law, and possibly that they are violating international treaties on the handling of foreign citizens accused of crimes. I don't know if the last is true, although I suspect as much. As far as I've been able to read, the Russian consolate has not been able to visit Dmitry. It is definately something that warrents further research. Of course, as always, be polite on the phone. You will be talking to an operator who likely has no clue about these issues, and you want to leave as good an impression as possible. Threats and cursing don't win followers. Make sure you mention that you are a constituent of the representative; they will probably ask for your name and address, or at least your address, to make sure. Don't call representatives who don't represent you. It won't help, and will only make the entire cause look bad. A protest like this should be able to rally thousands of people per representative. The turnouts for the in person picketting protests were great, but we should be able to get a far greater number when all thats involved are 3 simple phone calls. House of Representatives lookup. This has a link to your Representative's homepage, which should have the phone numbers of their home and DC offices. http://www.house.gov/writerep/ Senators of the 107th Congress. This has links to your Senator's homepage. http://www.senate.gov/senators/senator_by_state.cfm The US Attorney's office should be able to be found on: http://www.usdoj.gov or http://www.usdoj.gov/cgi-bin/phonebook/db.cgi Benjamin Krueger roo@ufies.org Seattle, Wa From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Fri Jul 27 23:55:34 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:07 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big bunch of Sklyarov links In-Reply-To: <20010727234206.A9784@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: More links: http://zork.net/dmitry/ -- san jose / san francisco protests https://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-sfba/ - bay area mailing list -- -alexf From tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca Sat Jul 28 00:10:07 2001 From: tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A humble telephone protest suggestion In-Reply-To: <20010727235313.F14363@ufies.org> Message-ID: Would calling the US embassy for those out of US help? TAA ----------------------------------------------------- Tony Abou-Assaleh Graduate Student, Department of Computer Science University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, Canada, N2L 3G1 Office: DC2503 Phone: (519) 888-4567 Ext. 3399 Email: taa@acm.org -----------------------[THE END]--------------------- On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Benjamin Krueger wrote: > Telephone Protest Proposal > July 27th, 2001 > > This is a really easy, yet effective protest, and even folks at work can > manage to participate. Essentially, we should choose one day and time > designated for calling your 2 congressional representatives, and the US > Attorney's Office. > > The really important part here is voicing your concern to your > representatives in as visible a way as possible, and large numbers of voting > constituants taking the time to make a telephone call will rouse their > attention. Under 18 folks should call too. Just because you can't vote right > now doesn't mean you won't be able to vote in a couple years. (You are going > to register to vote when you turn 18, right?) > > I would suggest starting such a protest at 10am your local time. Your > representatives' offices will just be starting their day, and a large call > volume will turn a lot of heads. I'd suggest the same time (10am PST) for > calls to the US Attorney's office in San Fransisco. If the line is busy, hang > up and try again until you get a person! Obviously if you can't call at > exactly the designated time, try and call sometime that day. Any phone call is > better than no phone call at all. > > Somebody may also want to write some scripts (the acting kind, not the > perl kind!) that folks can use when they call. For your representatives, I > would suggest stressing your concern over the DMCA, and the fact that it is > now being used to repress valid research and violates citizen's rights. For > the US Attorney, I would suggest a script that emphasizes your concern that > they are acting in an innappropriate manner, that they are violating Dmitry's > rights by not providing due process in an expediant manner according to the > law, and possibly that they are violating international treaties on the > handling of foreign citizens accused of crimes. I don't know if the last is > true, although I suspect as much. As far as I've been able to read, the > Russian consolate has not been able to visit Dmitry. It is definately > something that warrents further research. > > Of course, as always, be polite on the phone. You will be talking to an > operator who likely has no clue about these issues, and you want to leave as > good an impression as possible. Threats and cursing don't win followers. Make > sure you mention that you are a constituent of the representative; they will > probably ask for your name and address, or at least your address, to make > sure. Don't call representatives who don't represent you. It won't help, and > will only make the entire cause look bad. > > A protest like this should be able to rally thousands of people per > representative. The turnouts for the in person picketting protests were great, > but we should be able to get a far greater number when all thats involved are > 3 simple phone calls. > > > House of Representatives lookup. This has a link to your Representative's > homepage, which should have the phone numbers of their home and DC offices. > http://www.house.gov/writerep/ > > Senators of the 107th Congress. This has links to your Senator's homepage. > http://www.senate.gov/senators/senator_by_state.cfm > > The US Attorney's office should be able to be found on: > http://www.usdoj.gov or http://www.usdoj.gov/cgi-bin/phonebook/db.cgi > > > Benjamin Krueger > roo@ufies.org > Seattle, Wa > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From roo at ufies.org Sat Jul 28 00:13:45 2001 From: roo at ufies.org (Benjamin Krueger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A humble telephone protest suggestion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010728001344.I14363@ufies.org> That might be a really great suggestion. I'm not sure what sort of matters they handle, but it could be a great way for folks in other countries to register their protest of US actions. Benjamin Krueger roo@ufies.org Seattle, Wa On Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 03:10:07AM -0400, Tony Abou-Assaleh wrote: > Would calling the US embassy for those out of US help? > > TAA > > ----------------------------------------------------- > Tony Abou-Assaleh > Graduate Student, Department of Computer Science > University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, Canada, N2L 3G1 > Office: DC2503 > Phone: (519) 888-4567 Ext. 3399 > Email: taa@acm.org > -----------------------[THE END]--------------------- > > On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Benjamin Krueger wrote: > > > Telephone Protest Proposal > > July 27th, 2001 From rick at linuxmafia.com Sat Jul 28 00:16:43 2001 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Big bunch of Sklyarov links In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010728001643.Z1560@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> begin Alex Fabrikant quotation: > http://zork.net/dmitry/ -- san jose / san francisco protests > https://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-sfba/ - bay > area mailing list I was holding off on adding the first of those, because Nick said a more-comprehensive replacement was on its way. But I've now added it to my working copy. Thanks for the second one, which I'd somehow missed! -- This message falsely claims to have been scanned for viruses with F-Secure Anti-Virus for Microsoft Exchange and to have been found clean. From declan at well.com Sat Jul 28 00:34:30 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Monday, another place? In-Reply-To: <01072719421303.26015@bilbo.blorch.org>; from mark@blorch.org on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 07:42:13PM -0700 References: <7b7ea7cbfc.7cbfc7b7ea@scccd.org> <01072719280200.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> <20010727213956.F1935@tastytronic.net> <01072719421303.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <20010728033430.C20057@cluebot.com> She does more than sit on the Judiciary committee. See: http://www.politechbot.com/p-02301.html On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 07:42:13PM -0700, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: > On Friday 27 July 2001 19:39, Jack Edwards wrote: > > Quoting Mark K. Bilbo: > > > On Friday 27 July 2001 18:28, mike castleman wrote: > > > > I'm sorry, but I must have missed something. What exactly is > > > > Feinstein's specific role in any of this? Or do you just dislike her? > > > > Remember that every Congressperson from both parties voted for DMCA. > > > > > > Well, Feinstein is one of our senators, is a rather powerful person in > > > the USG, and is a rather strong supporter of the DCMA. > > > > She also happens to sit on the Senate Judiciary Committee. > > That I did not know. But it puts her definitely in the "people I wanna wake > up" category. > > Mark > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jono at microshaft.org Sat Jul 28 00:44:13 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boycott Adobe T-Shirts?] Message-ID: <20010728004413.J33344@networkcommand.com> Hi: I need to know who has some boycott adobe t-shirts left. I have a sort of media campaign that should work very well. Plot synopsis: Constitution + ebay + DMCA = Censorship Send me a email off list if you have some shirts. I only need a couple. Will pay... Thanks, Jon From pedro at tastytronic.net Sat Jul 28 00:51:23 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Monday the 30th Plans Message-ID: <20010728025123.C1066@tastytronic.net> First of all, sorry that i've been incommunicado. Like I said, I'm in San Francisco. That being said, I've spent most of the day today with Seth David Schoen, who is now in the employ of the EFF to work on Sklyarov-related support. The EFF met with the US Attorney's office this morning and presented their case. The U.S. Attorney's office asked several questions of the EFF, but did NOT make a statement either way for or against their releasing him. This should be hopeful, but not calming. Protests are gearing up across the country for this Monday. San Fran's should be particularly cacophanous. Anyway, Here is the plan for Monday as it stands: Same time, same place. See the protest packet at the website for relevant information. I'll try to have the updated version available for tomorrow. As I said in my earlier message, I'm considering focusing ONLY on Freeing Dmitry and talking about the DMCA when it comes up (which is any time you have a longer conversation with someone). This keeps people from assuming that we're trying to get something out of this situation, when we should be focusing on Dmitry. What do you think about this? The alternative is to also have signs that also ask for the repealing of the DMCA. This is our goal anyway -- but I feel like having both makes it look like we're using Dmitry as a poster boy, and is less likely to have an emotional, make-me-wanna-write-effect on people. Also, PLEASE make high-visibility signs this weekend. I'm going to make a big sandwhich board when i get home sunday night. Also, consider buying or bringing american flags down there -- it will make us look "good" and draw people's interest. Finally, I'll have a new version of the poster available, but it might not be available until late Sunday night. Is it possible for people to print them Monday morning? I'll be more than happy to print 500 at a kinkos -- Nick Moffitt, Stephane Miller, Seth David Schoen and I went through well over that this afternoon alone in SF. Some tactics that work well -- * SMILE! People are more apt to take a flyer from you when you look happy to be there.. Obviously not happy about the imprisonment, but still, happy. * Hold a stack of fliers and one out to be taken. People will not likely take your "last flyer" Hold the stake and page upside down so people can read it as they come up. It will pique their curiosity and draw them in. * Use a straightman. This worked well today, to have one of us go with the crowd and take a flyer. When people see one person do it, they're more likely to follow suit. We should definitely experiment with this on Monday. * Be confident, but not pushy. Look like you know what you're doing and are supposed to be there. But don't get in people's faces. We want to be the innocent angels who are telling others about the injustice being done. That confidence really shines through, and if you act confident, you will be more confident. * Get out there! Don't wait for people to come to you in the plaza. Pick a good place where people walk and stand there. Since we're not shouting or marching, a lone man with a sign is not as effective as aperson with a flyer trying to get someone to read it. The signs WITH the flyers however are added visual and mental draw. * Try standing in pairs, or facing opposite directions. Several times today people would skip me, but take one from the next guy. Finally, I do NOT want to dilute our message with claims about Mueller or the EFF, or Adobe. Members of our group are perfectly welcome to have their own ideas about each of these subjects, but I think we need to decide as a group what our angle is and stick to it for maximum effect. I'll try to get that poster ready before sunday night, and before I go to bed tonight I should have the updated press release for faxing to local media outlets. Did anyone see the NY Times article IN actual PRINT? I would love to include a photocopy of that to local outlets -- if they see the Times did it, maybe they'll find it more compelling. Would someone spend some time trying to figure out the reporters names for various tv stations, radio, and newsprint vendors that we should contact? LIke, who is the technology guy for the Tribune, that kind of thing. Free Dmitry, pedro -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- FBI has imprisioned a Russian software engineer for promoting and teaching the concept of "fair use". Read more: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From pedro at tastytronic.net Sat Jul 28 00:52:55 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Protest Info Message-ID: <20010728025254.D1066@tastytronic.net> For Chicago protest info, please see: http://two-bit.ufo.chicago.il.us/free-sklyarov/ Thanks, pedro -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- FBI has imprisioned a Russian software engineer for promoting and teaching the concept of "fair use". Read more: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From sethf at sethf.com Sat Jul 28 01:00:39 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:08 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest chant Message-ID: <20010728040039.A6255@sethf.com> I'm inspired. With apologies to the over-50 set: "Hey, hey, D-M-C-A how many rights did you take away?" -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From schoen at loyalty.org Sat Jul 28 03:42:37 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] UK programmer letter to US Ambassador Message-ID: <20010728034237.A1181@zork.net> Thanks to Richard Kay for this copy of his letter to the U.S. Ambassador in London. ----- Forwarded message from Richard Kay ----- [...] Copy of letter sent to US Ambassador in London: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Richard Kay Senior Lecturer in Software Engineering, Technology Innovation Centre, University of Central England, Perry Barr, Birmingham, B42 2SU. Richard.Kay@uce.ac.uk Monday 23rd July 2001 The Ambassador, US Embassy, 24 Grosvenor Square London, W1A 1AE Dear Ambassador, I am writing to express my disgust concerning the way the FBI has conducted itself with regards to Dmitry Sklyarov a Russian programmer now wrongfully imprisoned in the US. Mr. Sklyarov gave a talk at a computer security conference in the US on the security weaknesses of Adobe's eBook product, which were apparently easily discovered. Instead of thanking Mr. Sklyarov for his work, the Adobe software company complained to the FBI who detained Mr. Sklyarov for allegedly violating the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA). I do not dispute the principle that copyright holders should be free to apply encryption technology to secure their works. However, it is obvious (thanks to Elcomsoft, the Russian company Mr Sklyarov works for) the protection given by Adobe's eBook products is substandard and easily overcome. The field of study Mr Sklyarov is engaged in has entirely legitimate usages, for example, enabling Adobe eBook products to be used by blind people and those with other disabilities. The imprisonment of Mr Sklyarov -and this use of the DMCA - represents a threat to the freedom of expression of programmers and software academics everywhere, should we express our views on security issues affecting substandard products which the DMCA is apparently intended to protect and then be foolish enough to visit the US. It also presents a situation for programmers resident in the US which denies them basic freedoms which your constitution claims to protect. Software academics and programmers such as myself can, for certain purposes, only effectively express ourselves to our colleagues through the discussion and publication of program source code. Suppression of this right cannot be justified on the same or similar grounds that make slander, libel or shouting "Fire" in a crowded theatre offences. Those who deny fundamental human rights of freedom of expression become tyrants, and the countries they misrule become police states. I might also mention that developing competitive parts, systems or peripherals which comply with proprietary interfaces has long been considered fair use rather than a breach of copyright. Would you imprison consumer product reviewers if they published weaknesses in proprietary door locks to encourage substandard lock manufacturers to improve their products ? If not, then the DMCA must be repealed or amended if the good reputation of the US, as a place of freedom of expression and democracy, is not to suffer. Yours sincerely, Richard Kay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [...] ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe From schoen at loyalty.org Sat Jul 28 03:44:28 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Monday the 30th Plans In-Reply-To: <20010728025123.C1066@tastytronic.net>; from pedro@tastytronic.net on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 02:51:23AM -0500 References: <20010728025123.C1066@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: <20010728034428.B1181@zork.net> Peter A. Peterson II writes: > First of all, sorry that i've been incommunicado. Like I said, I'm in > San Francisco. > > That being said, I've spent most of the day today with Seth David > Schoen, who is now in the employ of the EFF to work on Sklyarov-related > support. Hmmm, that's not definite yet. I am hoping to take a position with EFF in the future if one is available. It's been fun seeing Peter out this way! -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe From schoen at loyalty.org Sat Jul 28 03:51:40 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A humble telephone protest suggestion In-Reply-To: ; from tabouass@math.uwaterloo.ca on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 03:10:07AM -0400 References: <20010727235313.F14363@ufies.org> Message-ID: <20010728035140.C1181@zork.net> Tony Abou-Assaleh writes: > Would calling the US embassy for those out of US help? I'm supportive of prominent and respected citizens of other countries expressing their discontent to a local Ambassador or Consul. _If true_, the message that Sklyarov's arrest makes you afraid to visit the U.S. is significant. Similarly, if true, the message that it makes you afraid for the U.S. commitment to free speech is significant. We've had a couple of academics saying that computer conferences will or should move outside of the U.S. To the extent that this is the view of the international computer security and computer engineering communities, the U.S. embassy should know about it. If you are "just a random person", contacting the Embassy helps too; I am not sure just how much effect credentials have. If you do write a letter, please post it here. The EFF has already used some of these letters to show the U.S. Attorney that the arrest is raising international concern and making foreign computer professionals afraid to travel here. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From pmasloch at earthlink.net Sat Jul 28 06:19:48 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] News: Phil Zimmerman will speak in SF Message-ID: Phil Zimmermann will make a rare appearance on Tuesday, July 31st in San Francisco to talk about encryption and the federal government's attempts to control the free speech of programmers through the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). Mr. Zimmermann will also discuss the OpenPGP email encryption standard alliance, the future of public key encryption, and answer questions from the audience. http://www.montebellopartners.com/Security/Events.asp Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org From crism at maden.org Sat Jul 28 06:53:35 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What was that russian chant? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20010727124538.K32630@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010728064745.00a5b3b0@mail.maden.org> At 12:45 27-07-2001, Vadim Kogan wrote: >Here's how it goes: > >Chto my hotim? (What do we want?) >Svobody Dime! (Free Dima (short of Dmitry)) >Kogda my hotim? (When do we want?) >Seichas (Now) or Prjamo seichas (Right now) My recollection is that people in San Jos? were saying the latter. The "hotim" here can also be spelled "khochim"; the first letter is the Cyrillic X, as in Khruschev; it's like loch or Bach or achtung. The t or ch is the same letter as the first letter in chto, somewhere between an English t and ch. An 'o' in the first syllable of a Russian word is pronounced more like 'a', so a phonetic rendering might be: Chto muy kha-chim'? Sva-bo'du dim-ye! Kag-da' muy kha-chim'? Prya'mo sei-chas'! I was wondering about that second question, though; wouldn't "when do we want *it*" be more correct? Kogda my eto khochim, perhaps? It's been a long time since my one year of collegiate Russian... -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From mellon at pobox.com Sat Jul 28 07:49:27 2001 From: mellon at pobox.com (Anatoly Vorobey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What was that russian chant? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010728064745.00a5b3b0@mail.maden.org>; from Christopher R. Maden on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 06:53:35AM -0700 References: <20010727124538.K32630@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> <5.0.2.1.0.20010728064745.00a5b3b0@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <20010728174927.48450@techunix.technion.ac.il> You, Christopher R. Maden, were spotted writing this on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 06:53:35AM -0700: > The "hotim" here can also be spelled "khochim"; No, "HO-chim" is a frowned upon, illiterate variant of "ha-TEEM", while "ha-CHIM" is simply nonexistent. The correct variant is spelled hotim and pronounced ha-TEEM (a as in father). > An 'o' in the first syllable of a Russian word is pronounced more like 'a', In an _unstressed_ syllable, be it the first or any other. > Chto muy kha-chim'? ^^^^^^^^ > Kag-da' muy kha-chim'? ^^^^^^^^ These are incorrect, see above. > I was wondering about that second question, though; wouldn't "when do we > want *it*" be more correct? No, it's perfectly acceptable in chanting to do that, to achieve better symmetry between the corresponding phrases. -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton From peri at logorrhea.com Sat Jul 28 08:06:20 2001 From: peri at logorrhea.com (John Kew) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA Children's Games Message-ID: <0107280804331H.04275@moons.logorrhea.com> After our demonstrations last Thursday, the next step in San Luis Obispo seems to be an attempt to setup a booth at Farmer's market. I was thinking up some ideas for the booth in attempt to desterilize the concept of the DMCA. One idea was a set of children's games involving the DMCA. I'm not joking. I was thinking of a word game that could turn a child into access control circumvention device. A Jack Valenti dart board. Maybe I could "rent" various works of fiction (written by friends) to people with license restrictions a page long. Any ideas? Any general ideas on making an Anti-DMCA/Free Dmitry booth interesting at a street fair type thing? From kris at firstworld.net Sat Jul 28 08:38:03 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Monday the 30th Plans In-Reply-To: <20010728025123.C1066@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010728080317.01230b10@pop.firstworld.net> At 02:51 AM 7/28/2001 -0500, Peter A. Peterson II wrote: >As I said in my earlier message, I'm considering focusing ONLY on >Freeing Dmitry and talking about the DMCA when it comes up (which is any >time you have a longer conversation with someone). This keeps people >from assuming that we're trying to get something out of this situation, >when we should be focusing on Dmitry. What do you think about this? The >alternative is to also have signs that also ask for the repealing of the >DMCA. This is our goal anyway -- but I feel like having both makes it >look like we're using Dmitry as a poster boy, and is less likely to have >an emotional, make-me-wanna-write-effect on people. While I absolutely agree that we should not be using Dmitry as a poster boy, since Dmitry is in jail for violating the DMCA - a law of questionable constitutionality, I think that it is ok to attack the DMCA as long as the primary focus is Freeing Dmitry. In fact, I think that is one of our most effective tactics. My experience has been when trying to convince people to help free Dmitry that a detailed explanation of way the DMCA is such a bad law is necessary. After all the fuckups the FBI has made in the past 10 years, people still seem to give them the benefit of the doubt. However, once I've convinced them that the DMCA is a bad law, they usually come around on the whole Free Dmitry point. If you look at the flyers we created this week - I think that they are very effective and they also contain a certain amount of anti-DMCA rhetoric. I think removing the anti-DMCA message would lessen the impact that the flyer has. And I'll be honest, the anti-DMCA slant isn't the only thing that concerns me. I dislike like the continual mention of Dmitry as a family man. It seems to imply that someone without a family belongs in jail. However, American consumers are big suckers and any message to them is going to be more effective with the heartfelt appeal that Dmitry is missing bonding time with his kids. So as sleazy as that it is, it is an effective tactic, so we're using it. I would suggest that any signs or message that have an anti-DMCA message also have "FREE DMITRY" written some where on the sign. I would also suggest that in order to build a "brand" that we standard the "FREE DMITRY" logo so that we can build name recognition. I know this sounds like marketing speak... it is... but there's a reason marketing people exist. The logo should always be upper case. Use big, bold, thick block letters. And if you have a color choice. Red on white. The big sign that Kelpht made up for last week's protest is a great example. Kris From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sat Jul 28 08:46:02 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA Children's Games In-Reply-To: <0107280804331H.04275@moons.logorrhea.com> Message-ID: >>>Any general ideas on making an Anti-DMCA/Free Dmitry booth interesting at a street fair type thing? In my conversations with non-tech colleagues about DMCA, I try to relate it to things they understand. I've had some luck with books. What if you had to pay every time you read a book? What if a mother reading to her children had to pay every time she did? What if a mother reading to two children had to pay twice as much? What if it was illegal to loan your book to a friend? What if it was illegal to buy and sell used books? What if public libraries were outlawed? I've also had some limited success with a public beach analogy. The beaches are public. The public has a right to the beach. But what if private property owners put up a fence and a sign that says you can't open the gate unless you pay them and puts a padlock on the gate. Do you have to pay to get access to the beach? If you pick the lock to get access to the public beach, should you be put in jail? These are certainly not perfect and could use much work. But my experience is that the public, such as those at a street fair, want and need to think in concrete, touch, hold, feel terms. It can be difficult to do that with "digital". Keep us posted as to what you do. James S. Huggins From dfm at area.com Sat Jul 28 09:09:07 2001 From: dfm at area.com (Dan Martinez) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Event Info Wanted! Message-ID: <20010728090907.L24956@area.com> [My apologies if you see this twice. My first attempt at posting was intercepted by the list-manager flypaper. There's a chance that it will come unstuck at some point.] The Calendar Page at http://www.freesklyarov.org/calendar.html is gradually catching up with reality. It now contains all upcoming events I'm aware of -- which is almost certainly far short of all upcoming events. This is where you come in. Sent me your event info! The headings on the calendar page give some idea of the basic information I need: Date, Time, City, Details, Location, and Contact Info. If your event has its own web page, or you can provide me with prepackaged links to maps and/or directions, so much the better. Information about significant external events bearing upon the case is also welcome, and will be added as we get it. Examples such as Dmitri's court dates, Robert Mueller's confirmation hearings, or John Ashcroft's public appearances all come to mind. Last but not least, corrections and/or additional information regarding events already listed will be accepted gladly. (Who, for instance, are the contact persons for the various events?) Please be sure to send your submissions to , and NOT to . Thanks! Thanks in advance, and Free Dmitry! Dan From god at ccilink.com Sat Jul 28 09:49:46 2001 From: god at ccilink.com (Alex McMullin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Monday, another place? In-Reply-To: <8766cdbwos.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 You made a good point with "In the People's Interest". IANAL but, did go to law school for a couple of years. As I recall, US vs. Sklyarov is NOT the US Government, but the US People. So, how do we, the people, tell "our" attorney (The US Attorney's office) that we DON'T want to press charges? I think that with the protests, we are letting them know, but, what else (I know, contact the media, flyers, pamphlets....) can we DO, in this immediate situation IN the legal system? I remember studying Amicus Curiae Briefs (Friend of the Court informative briefs), but, I don't know that they are filed before the appellate level. Is there anyone on this list who knows of a pre-trial brief/motion that could be filed on behalf of the people, but from a third party (since our "legal representative" isn't following our requests), requesting that this case be dropped as it is **NOT IN THE BEST INTEREST** nor is it a desire of, the people whom are being represented by the prosecution? I was also wondering, how far fetched is the idea of something like a Request for Writ of Prohibition being filed? In such a case, we could request, based upon community interest and details specific to this case, a bar on the US Attorney's office from pursuing prosecution. (The purpose of writ of prohibition was in part to bar "bad law" from being prosecuted). Also, I know approximately when the software was released, but, could a valid argument be made that the law doesn't apply to this cause because the software was started PRIOR to the enforcement date of the DMCA, i.e. if the software was being written prior to the date that the DMCA went into effect, any prosecution would be a violation of Expo Facto prosecution laws (grandfathering, an event that was legal when it was begun cannot be prosecuted if it is a continuing event, and is later outlawed). I am sure Dmitry's lawyers have enough to worry about, maybe someone in the EFF could look into this and develop a generic "Request for Dismissal" type of document that could be filed by each of us, and a supporting memorandum. I am sure that if the court gets a couple thousand request for dismissals, along with the protests and heightened press coverage (I am not going to stop trying to get ahold of the media until they agree to cover the Minneapolis protests), they will "advise" the state that they should withdraw the charges because they are not in the "Public Interest". (An added bonus may even be that the Legislature will realize that we, the people, won't back a prosecution brought on our behalf under DMCA, and they might actually think about a reform). Alex McMullin Systems Administrator (Any email sent by Alex McMullin will be signed with PGP) - -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Klepht Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 9:43 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Protest on Monday, another place? >>>>> "MKB" == Mark K Bilbo writes: MKB> If the DoJ believes the law has been broken, they really have MKB> the obligation and duty to prosecute even if half the country MKB> is chanting outside their windows. This is, happily, completely untrue. If prosecutors feel that they don't have enough evidence to press a case, or that the "crime" committed is not in The People's interest to pursue, they can choose to drop the case. This happens all the time. I don't have numbers, but I believe the majority of criminal cases do not actually go all the way to sentencing. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) Unless the US Attorney's Office in Northern California is very blind, they should see by now that this case is weak at best, especially without the support of the original complainant, Adobe. Right now, our focus is to convince them to hurry up and drop the case. Quit dragging their heels, quit making political hay out of having "taken down" a "cybercriminal," and let Dmitry out of jail. ~Klepht - -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBO2LtJT7fiV/TT75LEQItxgCg8vScLo3YPBQBTfNGKU4VcCDUA9UAoN/m SPEarp0B1Hf9x2xp2vZhgY9B =KUXF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jstyre at jstyre.com Sat Jul 28 10:17:00 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Possibly relevant radio show in 15 minutes Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010728100722.00b5ec70@earthlink.net> If you're within range of Los Angeles based KPFK (90.7 FM), Digital Village Radio will have Richard Smith of the Privacy Foundation as the bottom of the hour guest. Don't know for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if there will be Sklyarov talk, the guys who do the show are into this sort of story. If you're not in range, or not online, the show is archived a few days after airing. A look at (or listen to) prior guest list will give a pretty good idea of what these guys are into. http://www.digitalvillage.org/audio.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From rms at privacyfoundation.org Sat Jul 28 10:20:19 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Possibly relevant radio show in 15 minutes In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010728100722.00b5ec70@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <001b01c11789$946e4ea0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Yep, I will be talking about Dmitry assuming we don't run out of time. Other topics will be the Tampa face scanning cameras and the search for Chandra Levy. Richard -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net] On Behalf Of James S. Tyre Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 1:17 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net; notdmcala@hackhawk.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Possibly relevant radio show in 15 minutes If you're within range of Los Angeles based KPFK (90.7 FM), Digital Village Radio will have Richard Smith of the Privacy Foundation as the bottom of the hour guest. Don't know for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if there will be Sklyarov talk, the guys who do the show are into this sort of story. If you're not in range, or not online, the show is archived a few days after airing. A look at (or listen to) prior guest list will give a pretty good idea of what these guys are into. http://www.digitalvillage.org/audio.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sat Jul 28 10:27:58 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:09 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Compromise? Balance? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20010728080317.01230b10@pop.firstworld.net> Message-ID: This article by Declan McCullagh at http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45548,00.html says, in part: Those are fighting words to copyright lobbyists and their supporters, who have depicted the DMCA as a fair and reasonable compromise that, like a sleeping elephant, must not be disturbed. And also: "Nothing has changed since 1998 that would lead members of Congress to upset the careful balance that was struck," says Bob Holleyman, head of the Business Software Alliance. Would someone with more knowledge than I point me to some references where I can learn about the compromises and careful balances? It also says: "As far as I know there have been very few complaints from intellectual property holders," Coble, the chief sponsor of the DMCA, said in an interview Tuesday. No duh!!! James S. Huggins From jono at microshaft.org Sat Jul 28 10:32:59 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Compromise? Balance? In-Reply-To: ; from FreeSklyarov@ZName.com on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 12:27:58PM -0500 References: <4.2.0.58.20010728080317.01230b10@pop.firstworld.net> Message-ID: <20010728103259.R33344@networkcommand.com> On 28-Jul-2001, James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov) wrote: > > > It also says: > "As far as I know there have been very few complaints from intellectual > property holders," Coble, the chief sponsor of the DMCA, said in an > interview Tuesday. > > No duh!!! Notice that the IP holders are now the corporations, not the people... They are attempting to obtain and control our knowledge. That is why "First Rights" on publishing are vanishing fast. > > > James S. Huggins > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Sat Jul 28 10:23:17 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NEWS: ZDnet article Message-ID: Has ths already been posted? Arrest may spark review of copyright law http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5094858,00.html?chkpt=zdnnp1tp02 Of course, the headline is a little disingenuous, only Boucher is quoted as even considering reviewing the law. "Those who want to change it have come across as 'hacker extremists,' while copyright holders seem pleased, one official said." These people need to get off their propaganda pulpit for five minutes and listen for a change. Free Dmitry. Repeal the DMCA. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ From proclus at iname.com Sat Jul 28 10:44:35 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: media blitz In-Reply-To: <3B62F8BA.795E8732@iname.com> Message-ID: <200107281744.f6SHid217092@moerbeke> One more thing. We are all slaves until Dmitry is free. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ On 28 Jul, To: free-sklyarov@zork.net wrote: > We should be ready for a media blitz to villanize Dmitry as an evil > hacker, starting Monday. I was dismayed to learn that the Senate has > voted to double the CHIPS force, which would lead to more prosecutions > under DMCA. We burnt our night oil, last weekend, and I'll bet that the > other side is doing the same thing this weekend. > > Let's focus and pull this together. We need a broad-based coalition, > with all the boycott movements, privacy groups, opens source and free > software advocates, librarians, unions, and freedom-loving people. IT > walkout, Yes! Boycott, Yes! Let's get together and dump some tea in > the harbor! > > Here is the start of a boycott list; > Windows XP > eBooks > DVD movies > RIAA > MPAA > plus, any other product that employs restrictive schemes against fair > use. > plus, any company or group that pursues action under the DMCA > > People need to know that these products > are not worth the price we are paying for them. That price is exacted > against our freedoms and taxable income to enforce unfair and > unconstitutional laws. > > It is now clear that Dmitry will only be free, when enough of the people > demand the reverse these onerous laws. Don't split the list. Sorry to > disappoint. FREE Dmitry! > > Regards, > proclus > http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From bobds at blorch.org Sat Jul 28 10:50:17 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NEWS: ZDnet article In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072810501701.25534@bitworks> On Saturday 28 July 2001 10:23, you wrote: > "Those who want to change [DMCA] have come across as 'hacker extremists,' > while copyright holders seem pleased, one official said." Notice how they carefully say "copyright holders," not "authors" in these statements? It's always about publishers, but never about the people who actually create the works? From mark at blorch.org Sat Jul 28 10:47:18 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] LOS ANGELES AREA In-Reply-To: <20010728090907.L24956@area.com> References: <20010728090907.L24956@area.com> Message-ID: <0107281047180H.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> If you're in the LA area and haven't signed up for the email list at the LA local site, please come join us at: http://la.freeskylarov.org Also, today (July 18th, Saturday), we'll be at the Santa Monica 3rd St. Promenade passing out leaflets about the issue and our upcoming rally Monday, July 30th. Leafletting starts about 3pm Pacific today. We're meeting on the south end of the promenade. (If all else fails, just look for a bevy of geeks with flyers ) Come on by! Mark From klepht at eleutheria.org Sat Jul 28 10:50:42 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NEWS: ZDnet article In-Reply-To: <01072810501701.25534@bitworks> References: <01072810501701.25534@bitworks> Message-ID: <87elr1aqod.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "BS" == Bob Smart writes: >> "Those who want to change [DMCA] have come across as 'hacker >> extremists,' while copyright holders seem pleased, one official >> said." BS> Notice how they carefully say "copyright holders," not BS> "authors" in these statements? It's always about publishers, BS> but never about the people who actually create the works? As a copyright holder of many pieces of intellectual property, I'd have to disagree with this statement. In fact, maybe we should start a letter-writing campaign: "I own intellectual property and I hate the DMCA." ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From mark at blorch.org Sat Jul 28 10:51:37 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NEWS: ZDnet article In-Reply-To: <01072810501701.25534@bitworks> References: <01072810501701.25534@bitworks> Message-ID: <0107281051370J.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> Authors? AUTHORS? Oh I bet you think *those people oughta get paid or something! Now stop being uppity and go make the funny boxes run! Mark On Saturday 28 July 2001 10:50, Bob Smart wrote: > On Saturday 28 July 2001 10:23, you wrote: > > "Those who want to change [DMCA] have come across as 'hacker extremists,' > > while copyright holders seem pleased, one official said." > > Notice how they carefully say "copyright holders," not "authors" in these > statements? It's always about publishers, but never about the people who > actually create the works? > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sat Jul 28 11:01:26 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Geektivist Message-ID: http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45522,00.html But in the world of Washington politics, geektivists are woefully outnumbered by the natives who populate and influence confirmation hearings: Corporate, nonprofit and trade association lobbyists. Just curious: Is geektivist a common term? Do people on this list consider themselves geektivists? Is it pejoritive or descriptive? James S. Huggins From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sat Jul 28 11:01:47 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: media blitz In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>>I was dismayed to learn that the Senate has >>>voted to double the CHIPS force, which >>>would lead to more prosecutions >>>under DMCA. We burnt our night oil, >>>last weekend, and I'll bet that the >>>other side is doing the same thing this weekend. http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45608,00.html James S. Huggins From ben at kalifornia.com Sat Jul 28 10:59:11 2001 From: ben at kalifornia.com (Ben Ford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] LOS ANGELES AREA References: <20010728090907.L24956@area.com> <0107281047180H.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <3B62FD6F.3000605@kalifornia.com> Mark K. Bilbo wrote: >If you're in the LA area and haven't signed up for the email list at the LA >local site, please come join us at: > >http://la.freeskylarov.org > >Also, today (July 18th, Saturday), we'll be at the Santa Monica 3rd St. > This should be July 28th, correct? > >Promenade passing out leaflets about the issue and our upcoming rally Monday, >July 30th. > >Leafletting starts about 3pm Pacific today. We're meeting on the south end of >the promenade. > >(If all else fails, just look for a bevy of geeks with flyers ) > >Come on by! > >Mark > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are going to burn in Hell forever. From jono at microshaft.org Sat Jul 28 11:09:32 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NEWS: ZDnet article In-Reply-To: <0107281051370J.26015@bilbo.blorch.org>; from mark@blorch.org on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 10:51:37AM -0700 References: <01072810501701.25534@bitworks> <0107281051370J.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <20010728110932.T33344@networkcommand.com> I just spoke with some authors. They informed me that works published on the net or digital with no paper copies usually require waiving all future rights. On 28-Jul-2001, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: > Authors? AUTHORS? > > Oh I bet you think *those people oughta get paid or something! > > Now stop being uppity and go make the funny boxes run! > > Mark > > On Saturday 28 July 2001 10:50, Bob Smart wrote: > > On Saturday 28 July 2001 10:23, you wrote: > > > "Those who want to change [DMCA] have come across as 'hacker extremists,' > > > while copyright holders seem pleased, one official said." > > > > Notice how they carefully say "copyright holders," not "authors" in these > > statements? It's always about publishers, but never about the people who > > actually create the works? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From kieran at digitalflock.org Sat Jul 28 11:12:00 2001 From: kieran at digitalflock.org (kieran hervold) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] call out for reinforcements? In-Reply-To: ; from rabbi@quickie.net on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 09:52:01AM -0700 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010727123905.020984f0@mail.well.com> Message-ID: <20010728111200.A8503@digitalflock.org> On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Len Sassaman wrote: > we were present on behalf of the EFF. Macki noted an affiliation with > Indymedia. No mention was made of 2600. ... speaking of Indymedia, i haven't found any Dimitri coverage there. perhaps a posting to Indymedia would be in order? the Sklyarov case clearly falls in Indymedia turf (globalization, etc), and additional protesters for monday's demonstrations can only serve to draw more media attention. t'rah, kieran -- life's too short for analog. -- MLM From rms at privacyfoundation.org Sat Jul 28 11:21:22 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] My reply to the awful Seybold article on Dmitry Message-ID: <001c01c11792$1eb7a360$6501a8c0@tiac.net> FYI: -----Original Message----- From: Richard M. Smith [mailto:rms@privacyfoundation.org] Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 2:19 PM To: pdyson@seyboldreports.com; pevans@seyboldreports.com; mike@seyboldreports.com Cc: Richard M. Smith Subject: Re: ElcomSoft supporters miss the point Hello, I just finished reading the unsigned Seybold article "Elcomsoft supporters miss the point" at Planet eBook. How depressing. I can't believe intelligent people are out advocating throwing software authors in jail for writing "dangerous" software that they don't approve of. The last time I checked, the First Amendment has not been repealed. The Adobe/Elcomsoft business dispute should be dealt as a civil issue, not by throwing people in jail. This is actual an old story. Content suppliers and their supporters have always attempted to demonize copying technology as "burglary tools" and the private use of them as "theft". It's interesting to compare the Seybold article to earlier articles about content providers vs. copying technology makers. The rhetoric and the flawed analogies haven't seem to change much in 20 years. Unfortunately, unlike earlier fights, a person sits in jail without bail in this latest battle. Here's the sorry track record: Elcomsoft supporters miss the point http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=196 "Put simply, the DMCA outlaws the creation of burglary tools-which ElcomSoft makes-but it does not redefine fair use for the digital domain." "A security company, noting that the locks on a Main Street bookstore are relatively weak, decides to create a mechanism that will pick the lock rather than alert the bookstore owner or his distributors that the shop is susceptible to a break-in." The Copyright Grab http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/4.01/white.paper_pr.html "Universal and Disney once sued Sony to stop distribution of its videotape machines, arguing that private noncommercial copying of their motion pictures by purchasers of Betamax machines was no more excusable than the theft of a necklace because the thief intended to wear it only at home for noncommercial purposes." Is Copying CDs a Crime? http://alternet.org/print.html?StoryID=9426 "No. While the courts consistently support the RIAA against criminal activity, they also prevent the RIAA from branding consumers who make copies as criminals." "In the late '80s and early '90s, the RIAA threatened to send police into homes, arresting people in possession of copied music and the new Sony DAT recorders. Congress passed the Audio Home Recording Act to keep the RIAA out of our homes." Richard M. Smith CTO, Privacy Foundation http://www.privacyfoundation.org From klepht at eleutheria.org Sat Jul 28 11:34:27 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] call out for reinforcements? In-Reply-To: <20010728111200.A8503@digitalflock.org> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010727123905.020984f0@mail.well.com> <20010728111200.A8503@digitalflock.org> Message-ID: <874rrwc37w.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "kh" == kieran hervold writes: kh> ... speaking of Indymedia, i haven't found any Dimitri kh> coverage there. perhaps a posting to Indymedia would be in kh> order? There were a bunch before the 7/23 event. Here's one from SF: http://sf.indymedia.org/display.php3?article_id=101903 But, you're right, they do need to be up soon for Monday 7/30. kh> the Sklyarov case clearly falls in Indymedia turf kh> (globalization, etc), and additional protesters for monday's kh> demonstrations can only serve to draw more media attention. Kieran: anyone can write an indymedia story. HOW ABOUT YOU?! You are articulate and (after catching up on Free Dmitry mail) will be well-read. So get out there and write that article! kh> -- life's too short for analog. -- MLM You know, MLM livens up any protest. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From mark at blorch.org Sat Jul 28 11:51:32 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] LOS ANGELES AREA In-Reply-To: <3B62FD6F.3000605@kalifornia.com> References: <20010728090907.L24956@area.com> <0107281047180H.26015@bilbo.blorch.org> <3B62FD6F.3000605@kalifornia.com> Message-ID: <01072811513200.02537@bilbo.blorch.org> On Saturday 28 July 2001 10:59, Ben Ford wrote: > Mark K. Bilbo wrote: > >If you're in the LA area and haven't signed up for the email list at the > > LA local site, please come join us at: > > > >http://la.freeskylarov.org > > > >Also, today (July 18th, Saturday), we'll be at the Santa Monica 3rd St. > > This should be July 28th, correct? Er, um, yeah. July 28th. Oops. (Either that or I'm REALLY late getting there... ) Mark From proclus at iname.com Sat Jul 28 11:57:16 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NEWS: ZDnet article In-Reply-To: <87elr1aqod.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <200107281857.f6SIvI217275@moerbeke> On 28 Jul, Klepht wrote: > > As a copyright holder of many pieces of intellectual property, I'd > have to disagree with this statement. > Hi Klepht, you should be more precise about these kinds of startments. The very term "intellectual property" plays into the hands of the DMCA supporters. Let's follow Stallman's advice and separate these things into sensible categories, such as trade secrets, patents, and copyrights. > In fact, maybe we should start a letter-writing campaign: "I own > intellectual property and I hate the DMCA." Right, so it's better to say, "I'm an author, and I oppose the DMCA." Insert inventor, software developer, musician, etc as required. It is better to have people relating to real people with real jobs, not intellectual property holders. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > > ~Klepht > -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sat Jul 28 12:11:10 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mainstream Support Message-ID: To some extent, the oppositions ability to portray the dispute as Hackers vs Copyright Owners seems to work against us. (At least, that is the impression I get talking to my non-technoid acquaintences). Hackers vs Corporate America seems to translate in the mind of the public to Long Hair, Bad Dressing Types Who Hibernate With Computers and Who Talk A Language I Don't Know and Who Think Everything Should Be Free vs The Struggling Author Trying to Earn a Living and The American Way of Business But it also seems that there are some "mainstream" groups who share the concerns over DMCA. In particular, libraries and educational organizations. For example, the National Humanities Alliance wrote about digital rights issues in 1997 http://www-ninch.cni.org/ISSUES/COPYRIGHT/PRINCIPLES/NHA_Complete.html And the Special Libraries Association had page once (that I can't find). Outside of the hacker and digital communities, what "mainstream" organizations have, so far, said that they "agree"? Which ones might? Is anyone attempting to solicit their aid in this? James S. Huggins From cyhawk2 at home.com Sat Jul 28 12:16:15 2001 From: cyhawk2 at home.com (Cyhawk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NEWS: ZDnet article & Related Case References: Message-ID: <3B630F7F.35D6C5F8@home.com> To me, It sounds like ZDNet's Idea is that we (Anti-DMCA) are Evil (by calling us Hackers, which to the public means evil) and that by us being "Evil" We (the good people) shouldnt support "they're" Futile Attempt at repealing a perfectly ok Law. Oddly enough, ive shown this to several people who dont have anything to do with the DMCA/Anti-DMCA or even programming/etc. And they all came to that conclusion. Id also Like to point out http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/bursts/0,7407,2771944,00.html Wherein a San Jose Court to declare Frence Laws unenforceable in the US Sound Familiar anyone? Unfortunanly The Case is still in the courts. Watching this case could prove useful in getting the DMCA revoked and declared Unconstitutional. By Having this Case Win for Yahoo, it could sway the Courts in the Determination of the DMCA is or is not Legal/Constitutional, It wont be the Final Nail in the Coffen, but it will\ prove to be moderatly powerful in the final decision. nobody wrote: > Has ths already been posted? > > Arrest may spark review of copyright law > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5094858,00.html?chkpt=zdnnp1tp02 > > Of course, the headline is a little disingenuous, only Boucher is quoted > as even considering reviewing the law. > > "Those who want to change it have come across as 'hacker extremists,' > while copyright holders seem pleased, one official said." > > These people need to get off their propaganda pulpit for five > minutes and listen for a change. > > Free Dmitry. > Repeal the DMCA. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jono at microshaft.org Sat Jul 28 12:20:08 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:10 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Compromise? Balance? In-Reply-To: <01072815021000.01351@linux>; from ericgrimm@mediaone.net on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 03:02:10PM -0400 References: <4.2.0.58.20010728080317.01230b10@pop.firstworld.net> <20010728103259.R33344@networkcommand.com> <01072815021000.01351@linux> Message-ID: <20010728122008.X33344@networkcommand.com> Eric: Can I publish this here: www.anti-dmca.org/intro.html ??? This is very good and I think the public could identify. Also, you *all* should consider signing up for the Technical Enigneering mail list: http://lists.anti-dmca.org/mailman/listinfo/IT_union We are just discussing the scope and role of this type of organization. This is a new type of Organization where those who create, retain. See the archives for more info. Thanks, Jon On 28-Jul-2001, Eric C. Grimm wrote: > > In response to remarks of John O. (reprinted below): > > I may be simplifying things a little more than necessary, but from an > historical perspective, I've been thinking along these lines (which I invite > you to consider) -- > > In the past -- actually, for hundreds of years -- most people toiled on land. > For the most part, that land belonged to somebody else. The owners of land > belonged to a different class and lived different lives than those who toiled > on land. > > In time, with the rise of a merchant class, the emergence of democratic > institutions -- and most importantly, following (sometimes violent) > revolutions in politics, publishing and thought, the medieval system was > replaced. > > Sometime later, with the advent of the industrial revolution, most people > came to toil upon and with machinery and capital -- the means of production. > The means of production belonged to somebody else. The owners of the means > of production belonged to a different class and lived different lives than > those who toiled upon the means of production. > > By the time the Twentieth Century arrived, widespread revolution by labor was > considered a real threat and a matter of concern not only in Europe, but here > in the United States as well. And there certainly were good reasons in all > industrial countries throughout the Twentieth Century (or at least up until > the mid-1990s) to make sure that reforms remained in place that resulted in a > more democratic distribution of output than might exist in the absence of > such reforms. At least comparing 1980 with 1880, ownership of capital > certianly was more widespread, as was wealth and general welfare in > industrial countries. > > In the last two decades -- and particularly so in the last half-decade -- we > have been embarking upon what has come to be known as the "information > revolution." Today, the majority of workers in advanced economies have come > to be what is known as "knowledge workers." Interestingly, "knowledge > workers" are not organized in the same way as their industrial counterparts > and -- while some particularly specialized knowlege workers can earn > remarkably good livings for themselves (e.g., imagine how much Bruce Keller, > the lawyer who argued the Tasini case before the Supreme Court on behalf of > content industries, makes (and, BTW, for several years now, Keller and his > law partners have been waging a very elegant and subtle campaign to make > copyrights and trademarks seem more "property-like" in the minds of > legislators, the public, and judges, through such devices as financing the > patriotic restoration of the Statue of Liberty through the recognition of > special licensing rights, or granting the Olympics special super-trademark > rights)) so long as those "sepcial" knowlege workers cater and pledge loyalty > to certain political agendas -- knowledge workers on the whole live much less > secure lives than did industrial workers in the 1950s and 1960s. > > Observing the trends as the "information revolution" accelerates, I cannot > help but ask: Is history repeating itself? > > At least to me, it seems clear enough that very aggressive and well-financed > moves are afoot and have been for some time to create classes of "information > haves" and "information have-nots" -- by which I do not mean the so-called > "digital divide" of information access, which separates the middle class from > the poor, but rather a class division between "information haves" who can > charge rent, and "information have-nots" who must pay rent. > > Are we racing toward a world populated with a large proletariat of > "information serfs," ruled by a small over-class of "information royalty," > who are assisted in their hegemony by an intermediate class of knowledge-rule > enforcers who pledge fealty to the ruling class -- or are we already there? > > Eric Grimm > > On Saturday 28 July 2001 13:32, Jon O . wrote: > > > On 28-Jul-2001, James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov) wrote: > > > It also says: > > > "As far as I know there have been very few complaints from intellectual > > > property holders," Coble, the chief sponsor of the DMCA, said in an > > > interview Tuesday. > > > > > > No duh!!! > > > > Notice that the IP holders are now the corporations, not the people... > > > > They are attempting to obtain and control our knowledge. That is why > > "First Rights" on publishing are vanishing fast. > > From jono at microshaft.org Sat Jul 28 12:22:56 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FC: FBI gets cash to spend on anti-encryption, broadband snooping Message-ID: <20010728122256.Y33344@networkcommand.com> ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- X-Sender: declan@mail.well.com Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 13:29:41 -0400 To: politech@politechbot.com From: Declan McCullagh Subject: FC: FBI gets cash to spend on anti-encryption, broadband snooping X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ X-Author: Declan McCullagh is at http://www.mccullagh.org/ X-News-Site: Cluebot is at http://www.cluebot.com/ http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,45632,00.html According to the report accompanying a spending bill that's awaiting a floor vote in the Senate: * The FBI will receive an extra $7 million for technology to thwart encryption. The appropriations committee intends for it to be spent on: "(1) analysis/exploitation of systems to allow access to data pre-encryption, (2) recognition/decryption of data hidden in plain sight, and (3) decryption of encrypted data." * Another $7 million goes to a plan to improve "intercept capabilities." The fed-speak for this is "developing broadband capabilities, and procuring prototypes capable of intercepting transmissions outside of the FBI's technical reach." Translation: Create better ways to eavesdrop on cable modems and DSL connections. * Antitrust enforcement gets a boost. The division, best known recently for its dogged pursuit of Microsoft, receives $3.6 million extra, but $10 million less than the Bush administration requested. The committee predicts a slew of mergers because of "the collapse of high technology stocks, and the resultant downward pressure on all stock prices." * Las Vegas, St. Louis, Charleston and Kansas City will split $6 million earmarked for gun surveillance technology. The plan is to spend it on acoustic sensors scattered around downtown areas so the location of a gunshot can be triangulated and located. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- End forwarded message ----- From bobds at blorch.org Sat Jul 28 12:34:22 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Geektivist In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072812342200.25820@bitworks> On Saturday 28 July 2001 11:01, you wrote: > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45522,00.html > Just curious: > Is geektivist a common term? > Do people on this list consider themselves geektivists? > Is it pejoritive or descriptive? I've never heard "geektivist," but I've heard "hacktivist" a lot and consider it an honorable label. From mbrubeck at hmc.edu Fri Jul 27 23:32:19 2001 From: mbrubeck at hmc.edu (Matt Brubeck) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? Message-ID: There's a lot of misinformation and guessing in this thread. Please, study the US DOJ complaint carefully before posting incorrect information: http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010707_complaint.html In summary: * The charges have nothing to do with the Defcon presentation. Dmitry was not arrested for giving a speech. * The charges have nothing to do with software distributed at Defcon. * He is not charged with the creation of AEBPR, which occurred in Russia. * The charges are "trafficking in a device" that violates the DMCA. An American company handled US sales of AEBPR for Elcomsoft. Thus both the buying and selling took place on US soil. * According to the DOJ, Dmitry was arrested as an individual because he is named as the author in the AEBPR copyright notice. As the copyright holder, he has control over all distribution and licensing of the program; thus he is held responsible for the distribution in the US. Please, please educate yourselves about the details of this case before speaking or writing about it in a public forum. Familiarize yourself with the DOJ's case, so that we can discuss it factually and intelligently. As the US Attorney's office pointed out, the courts will have no problem with questions of jurisdiction in this case. If you're interested in the legal strength of the USAO case, you should probably focus on other aspects. Again, familiarize yourself with the law and with the case *before* you post. From mbrubeck at hmc.edu Sat Jul 28 12:43:42 2001 From: mbrubeck at hmc.edu (Matt Brubeck) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Informative flyers Message-ID: Here's another set of flyers. I have made the TeX source available for anyone to use and modify. These are some relatively boring flyers; they are intented to provide background on the case for people who know nothing about Sklyarov and the DMCA. They should be used as companion flyers to more impassioned pleas for freedom. They are text-only, but feel free to use some or all of my text as part of a more interesting layout. http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~mbrubeck/sklyarov/ From declan at well.com Sat Jul 28 12:49:55 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress doubling number of DMCA, copyright federal police Message-ID: <20010728154955.E14221@cluebot.com> Just think of it: $6 million more for investigations and prosecutions, plus $4 million for better computers. The DMCA is a budget growth opportunity for the FBI and DOJ, don't ya think? -Declan http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45608,00.html Congress Covets Copyright Cops By Declan McCullagh (declan@wired.com) 2:00 a.m. July 28, 2001 PDT WASHINGTON -- If you've ever contemplated violating the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, be warned: Congress is set to more than double the number of federal copyright cops. A draft of next year's budget includes plans to hire far more Justice Department attorneys and FBI agents who are charged with placing more pirates in prison. This comes one week after Attorney General John Ashcroft spoke in Mountain View, California, about the threat of online piracy. In the same week, geek protesters demanded the release of Dmitry Sklyarov, a Russian programmer arrested on felony copyright charges. That's exactly what should be happening, according to a Senate committee report. In an apparent reference to the prosecution, it says: "The committee is aware that the FBI has launched an initiative to investigate violations of federal copyright laws protecting certain marketed software applications. The committee supports FBI efforts..." The Senate has earmarked $10 million for copyright prosecutions, enough money for 155 agents and attorneys in the fiscal year starting in October. That's up from a current $4 million allocated for 75 positions. Copyright holders, who applauded the prosecution of Sklyarov on charges of violating the controversial DMCA, said they hoped the additional cash will put more DMCA pirates and copyright thieves behind bars. [...] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- End forwarded message ----- ----- End forwarded message ----- From schoen at loyalty.org Sat Jul 28 12:50:41 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? In-Reply-To: ; from mbrubeck@hmc.edu on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 11:32:19PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010728125041.Q1181@zork.net> Matt Brubeck writes: > There's a lot of misinformation and guessing in this thread. Please, study > the US DOJ complaint carefully before posting incorrect information: > > http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010707_complaint.html > > In summary: > > * The charges have nothing to do with the Defcon presentation. > Dmitry was not arrested for giving a speech. > > * The charges have nothing to do with software distributed at Defcon. > > * He is not charged with the creation of AEBPR, which occurred in Russia. > > * The charges are "trafficking in a device" that violates the DMCA. > An American company handled US sales of AEBPR for Elcomsoft. Thus > both the buying and selling took place on US soil. Yes, all of this is correct, and important for people to realize. > * According to the DOJ, Dmitry was arrested as an individual because he is > named as the author in the AEBPR copyright notice. As the copyright > holder, he has control over all distribution and licensing of the > program; thus he is held responsible for the distribution in the US. I think this is questionable for various reasons, but it's probably what the DOJ was thinking. > Please, please educate yourselves about the details of this case before > speaking or writing about it in a public forum. Familiarize yourself with > the DOJ's case, so that we can discuss it factually and intelligently. Indeed! > As the US Attorney's office pointed out, the courts will have no problem > with questions of jurisdiction in this case. Here I disagree. I think jurisdiction is one of many relevant angles for the defense. For example, the defense could assert that Dmitry Sklyarov himself had no business contacts with the U.S., although his employer did. I'm not very familiar with the relevant law, but I don't see that the jurisdiction argument is irrelevant here. I've been telling people that Dmitry Sklyarov "was not charged with having done anything illegal while physically in the U.S." and that he "was in Russia when [...] and his actions were certainly legal there". Those familiar with law will recognize that a U.S. court _may_ assert jurisdiction anyway, but these points emphasize the general unfairness of the case in an intuitive way. They may also raise the question for some people -- from a philosophical or moral point of view -- of "when _is_ jurisdiction appropriate?", distinct from the answers so far in particular countries' jurisprudence. Although I don't think that the Sklyarov case raises any particularly new international jurisdiction questions, there are certainly very hot issues in this area at the moment, like _Yahoo v. LICRA_. -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe From schoen at loyalty.org Sat Jul 28 12:54:35 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress doubling number of DMCA, copyright federal police In-Reply-To: <20010728154955.E14221@cluebot.com>; from declan@well.com on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 03:49:55PM -0400 References: <20010728154955.E14221@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010728125435.R1181@zork.net> Declan McCullagh writes: > That's exactly what should be happening, according to a Senate > committee report. In an apparent reference to the prosecution, it > says: "The committee is aware that the FBI has launched an initiative > to investigate violations of federal copyright laws protecting certain > marketed software applications. The committee supports FBI efforts..." I'm not sure this refers to this case -- "an initiative to investigate violations"? "Applications"? Are the plurals just a politician's effort to speak without loss of generality? This could, for example, refer to the CHIP offices in general, couldn't it? Would a particular prosecution be referred to as an "initiative"? -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From dfm at area.com Sat Jul 28 13:12:49 2001 From: dfm at area.com (Dan Martinez) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:11 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Geektivist In-Reply-To: ; from FreeSklyarov@ZName.com on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 01:01:26PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010728131249.A25586@area.com> James S. Huggins wrote: > Just curious: > Is geektivist a common term? I hadn't heard it before. > Do people on this list consider themselves geektivists? I don't. I consider myself an activist. "Geektivist" sounds, to me, like a forced attempt to be cute. (Sorry, Declan.) > Is it pejoritive or descriptive? Possibly both, possibly neither, but either way I don't think it's particularly helpful. I consider myself a geek, just as I consider myself a hacker, but I might pause before adopting either label while trying to influence the opinion of a lay public. (Which is, after all, part of what we're trying to do here.) I think that the opposition is working hard enough to marginalize us: I don't see the point in making it easy for them. Dan From declan at well.com Sat Jul 28 13:14:35 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Geektivist In-Reply-To: <01072812342200.25820@bitworks>; from bobds@blorch.org on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 12:34:22PM -0700 References: <01072812342200.25820@bitworks> Message-ID: <20010728161435.A14637@cluebot.com> I coined it when writing about the protests. Google reports no matches, so my use seems to be unique. -Declan On Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 12:34:22PM -0700, Bob Smart wrote: > On Saturday 28 July 2001 11:01, you wrote: > > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45522,00.html > > > Just curious: > > Is geektivist a common term? > > Do people on this list consider themselves geektivists? > > Is it pejoritive or descriptive? > > I've never heard "geektivist," but I've heard "hacktivist" a lot and consider > it an honorable label. > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jono at microshaft.org Sat Jul 28 13:18:03 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Geektivist In-Reply-To: <20010728161435.A14637@cluebot.com>; from declan@well.com on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 04:14:35PM -0400 References: <01072812342200.25820@bitworks> <20010728161435.A14637@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <20010728131803.C33344@networkcommand.com> Yes, please stop now. The public is at risk from these issues and if someone characterizes the people who understand with these types of terms the public will not relate. On 28-Jul-2001, Declan McCullagh wrote: > I coined it when writing about the protests. Google reports no matches, > so my use seems to be unique. > > -Declan > > > On Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 12:34:22PM -0700, Bob Smart wrote: > > On Saturday 28 July 2001 11:01, you wrote: > > > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45522,00.html > > > > > Just curious: > > > Is geektivist a common term? > > > Do people on this list consider themselves geektivists? > > > Is it pejoritive or descriptive? > > > > I've never heard "geektivist," but I've heard "hacktivist" a lot and consider > > it an honorable label. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From callahanpb at yahoo.com Sat Jul 28 13:19:19 2001 From: callahanpb at yahoo.com (Paul Callahan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mainstream Support In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010728201919.36783.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com> --- "James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)" wrote: > Outside of the hacker and digital communities, what > "mainstream" > organizations have, so far, said that they "agree"? > > Which ones might? Well, the ACM is a mainstream professional organization. Of course, it is a computer organization so that might not be what you mean. Anyway, I'm pleased to see that they've written a letter to Pat Schroeder of AAP against the anti-circumvention provisions of DMCA. The authors are Barbara Simons and Gene Spafford, but they are speaking on behalf of the ACM; there is no disclaimer to indicate otherwise. I'm new to this list so I'm sure I'm not the first to post this link, but here it is: http://www.acm.org/usacm/IP/AAP-letter.html I think you'd have a hard time contending that the ACM is a bunch of "long-haired hackers". Among other things, they publish a code of ethics (http://www.acm.org/constitution/code.html) that includes the provision: 1.5 Honor property rights including copyrights and patent. Violation of copyrights, patents, trade secrets and the terms of license agreements is prohibited by law in most circumstances. Even when software is not so protected, such violations are contrary to professional behavior. Copies of software should be made only with proper authorization. Unauthorized duplication of materials must not be condoned. Unfortunately, what I get out of a recent Wired article is that most Washington insiders don't understand or care to understand the views of the computer community--even its most mainstream spokespersons--on this unethical and unworkable provision of DMCA. Rep. Rick Boucher (D, VA) is a notable exception. I'd certainly like to see Boucher build a coalition, but it's unclear how much power he really has. His approach seems quite mainstream, and his interest seems to be based on the notion of fair use rather than "hacker ethics." I should confess for myself that while I support the intellectual grounds for releasing Sklyarov and overturning DMCA, I am also motivated by solidarity with a member of my profession who has been mistreated. I.e., there are many people who are held in jail unjustly right now, but Sklyarov is one that I personally feel a particular obligation towards. I don't think I'm alone in this. --Paul __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From alphageek at mediaone.net Sat Jul 28 13:34:45 2001 From: alphageek at mediaone.net (Eric C. Grimm) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Geektivist In-Reply-To: <20010728131249.A25586@area.com> Message-ID: Perhaps Declan should sumbit it to Rich Hall for his next "snigglets" book. ECG -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Dan Martinez Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 4:13 PM To: Free Sklyarov List Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Geektivist James S. Huggins wrote: > Just curious: > Is geektivist a common term? I hadn't heard it before. > Do people on this list consider themselves geektivists? I don't. I consider myself an activist. "Geektivist" sounds, to me, like a forced attempt to be cute. (Sorry, Declan.) From jono at microshaft.org Sat Jul 28 13:40:09 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Announce on Craig's list? Message-ID: <20010728134009.G33344@networkcommand.com> Someone might want to promote the information to Craig's list. There is also the regional function which can assist locally... From declan at well.com Sat Jul 28 13:41:07 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Geektivist In-Reply-To: <20010728131249.A25586@area.com>; from dfm@area.com on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 01:12:49PM -0700 References: <20010728131249.A25586@area.com> Message-ID: <20010728164106.B16546@cluebot.com> So you consider yourself a geek and an activist, but you don't like it when someone calls you a geektivist? Uhhh... right. -Declan On Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 01:12:49PM -0700, Dan Martinez wrote: > James S. Huggins wrote: > > > Just curious: > > Is geektivist a common term? > > I hadn't heard it before. > > > Do people on this list consider themselves geektivists? > > I don't. I consider myself an activist. "Geektivist" sounds, to me, > like a forced attempt to be cute. (Sorry, Declan.) > > > Is it pejoritive or descriptive? > > Possibly both, possibly neither, but either way I don't think it's > particularly helpful. I consider myself a geek, just as I consider > myself a hacker, but I might pause before adopting either label while > trying to influence the opinion of a lay public. (Which is, after all, > part of what we're trying to do here.) > > I think that the opposition is working hard enough to marginalize us: > I don't see the point in making it easy for them. > > Dan > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From alphageek at mediaone.net Sat Jul 28 14:19:25 2001 From: alphageek at mediaone.net (Eric C. Grimm) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Compromise? Balance? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In response to remarks of John O. (reprinted below): I may be simplifying things a little more than necessary, but from an historical perspective, I've been thinking along these lines (which I invite you to consider) -- In the past -- actually, for hundreds of years -- most people toiled on land. For the most part, that land belonged to somebody else. The owners of land belonged to a different class and lived different lives than those who toiled on land. In time, with the rise of a merchant class, the emergence of democratic institutions -- and most importantly, following (sometimes violent) revolutions in politics, publishing and thought, the medieval system was replaced. Sometime later, with the advent of the industrial revolution, most people came to toil upon and with machinery and capital -- the means of production. The means of production belonged to somebody else. The owners of the means of production belonged to a different class and lived different lives than those who toiled upon the means of production. By the time the Twentieth Century arrived, widespread revolution by labor was considered a real threat and a matter of concern not only in Europe, but here in the United States as well. And there certainly were good reasons in all industrial countries throughout the Twentieth Century (or at least up until the mid-1990s) to make sure that reforms remained in place that resulted in a more democratic distribution of output than might exist in the absence of such reforms. At least comparing 1980 with 1880, ownership of capital certianly was more widespread, as was wealth and general welfare in industrial countries. In the last two decades -- and particularly so in the last half-decade -- we have been embarking upon what has come to be known as the "information revolution." Today, the majority of workers in advanced economies have come to be what is known as "knowledge workers." Interestingly, "knowledge workers" are not organized in the same way as their industrial counterparts and -- while some particularly specialized knowlege workers can earn remarkably good livings for themselves (e.g., imagine how much Bruce Keller, the lawyer who argued the Tasini case before the Supreme Court on behalf of content industries, makes (and, BTW, for several years now, Keller and his law partners have been waging a very elegant and subtle campaign to make copyrights and trademarks seem more "property-like" in the minds of legislators, the public, and judges, through such devices as financing the patriotic restoration of the Statue of Liberty through the recognition of special licensing rights, or granting the Olympics special super-trademark rights)) so long as those "special" knowlege workers cater and pledge loyalty to certain political agendas -- knowledge workers on the whole live much less secure lives than did industrial workers in the 1950s and 1960s. Observing the trends as the "information revolution" accelerates, I cannot help but ask: Is history repeating itself? At least to me, it seems clear enough that very aggressive and well-financed moves are afoot and have been for some time to create classes of "information haves" and "information have-nots" -- by which I do not mean the so-called "digital divide" of information access, which separates the middle class from the poor, but rather a class division between "information haves" who can charge rent, and "information have-nots" who must pay rent. Are we racing toward a world populated with a large proletariat of "information serfs," ruled by a small over-class of "information royalty," who are assisted in their hegemony by an intermediate class of knowledge-rule enforcers who pledge fealty to the ruling class -- or are we already there? Eric Grimm On Saturday 28 July 2001 13:32, Jon O . wrote: > On 28-Jul-2001, James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov) wrote: > > It also says: > > "As far as I know there have been very few complaints from intellectual > > property holders," Coble, the chief sponsor of the DMCA, said in an > > interview Tuesday. > > > > No duh!!! > > Notice that the IP holders are now the corporations, not the people... > > They are attempting to obtain and control our knowledge. That is why > "First Rights" on publishing are vanishing fast. > From jono at microshaft.org Sat Jul 28 14:22:39 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:12 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] IT worker faces jail for installing screensaver at work Message-ID: <20010728142239.J33344@networkcommand.com> This might be old news to some of you, but... IT worker faces jail for installing screensaver: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/20695.html Top US execs pressure Congress to withhold Net privacy law: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/20711.html http://www.anti-dmca.org Who owns you? From wahern at 25thandClement.com Sat Jul 28 14:39:21 2001 From: wahern at 25thandClement.com (William Ahern) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Compromise? Balance? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072814392103.27999@bill> It is pretty obivous that businesses (and not just corporations, but all those guys and gals with MBA's from Harvard) are looking under every rock and in every cranny seeking out rent. It seems obvious that throughout history people fail to see how an economy really works (maybe the Judeo-Christian ethic has helped the west from regressing, due to the teaching of selflessness, even if persons in the west don't practice it individually). But, the internet gives power to the people. The internet is the great equalizer, and that's why all of those lusers out in dot.com land are so frustrated rent seeking. But, in order to keep it that way, and to keep the capacity for change in OUR hands, we need to keep it open. (that means fighting things like the DMCA and and also more subtle things like data-differentiation on the network, like what the big backbone providers are pushing for (think about the ATM craze)). So, on-the-whole things are probably brighter than what one could superficially take from your piece (though the piece itself agrees with me very much). Institutions like the WTO and NAFTA/FTAA would be/will be great if they can foster an equalizing economy, not a divisive one. On Saturday 28 July 2001 14:19, Eric C. Grimm wrote: > At least to me, it seems clear enough that very aggressive and > well-financed moves are afoot and have been for some time to create classes > of > "information haves" and "information have-nots" -- by which I do not mean > the so-called "digital divide" of information access, which separates the > middle class from the poor, but rather a class division between > "information haves" who can charge rent, and "information have-nots" who > must pay rent. > > Are we racing toward a world populated with a large proletariat of > "information serfs," ruled by a small over-class of "information royalty," > who are assisted in their hegemony by an intermediate class of > knowledge-rule enforcers who pledge fealty to the ruling class -- or are we > already there? > > Eric Grimm From jays at panix.com Sat Jul 28 15:00:14 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Criminalizing crypto criticism (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 13:34:00 -0700 From: John Gilmore To: cryptography@wasabisystems.com, cypherpunks@cyberpass.net, gnu@toad.com Subject: Re: Criminalizing crypto criticism > Much of the hysteria regarding the DMCA's supposed ability to quash free > speech by cryptographic researchers is being whipped up by opponents > to the DMCA who are misrepresenting the DMCA in a calculated fashion in > order to promote opposition. The anonymous poster's legal analysis was not particularly novel. It states that the "exemptions" in the DMCA actually cover the things that they were supposedly intended to cover. That would be a refreshing change if it were true, but the law is full of weasel words and exemptions to the exemptions. Only accredited researchers, not cypherpunks, can do research, for example. And you're only exempt if you tell the company first, so they know to sue you before you do the research, rather than after the results are leaking out to the public. Neither my opinion nor the poster's opinion controls, though. What matters is what the judges will say, and how expensive it is to ordinary researchers to find out. In the 2600 case, what the judge said is that even if Jon Johansen might have been able to reverse- engineer DVD players under an exemption (an issue that he didn't decide), 2600 Magazine was unable, under the statute, to publish even *A LINK* to Jon's results. The judge swept aside all the clauses like: > 1201(c)(4): > Nothing in this section shall enlarge or diminish any rights of > free speech or the press for activities using consumer electronics, > telecommunications, or computing products. > > Clearly publication of cryptographic results is a fundamental part of > free speech and will not be infringed by the DMCA. The other side argued in the 2600 appeal that this was a standard "savings clause" inserted in the legislation and was not intended to mean anything. It goes like this: either the law is constitutional or it isn't. If it is constitutional, this clause is inoperative, since clearly those Constitutional rights weren't diminished. If the law violates the Constitution, then the Constitution, not the statute, controls what rights the public has; again this clause doesn't. The judge agreed with the government and Hollywood that it was clearly put in there to "buy off" some opponents of the DMCA and didn't have any legal effect. The only minor issue is that THOSE SUCKERS ACTUALLY BELIEVED IT, dropped their opposition, and let the DMCA become law. But that wasn't the judge's problem -- only the defendant's. > In fact the RIAA takes that same position now, as seen in > http://www.eff.org/Legal/Cases/Felten_v_RIAA/20010606_riaa_statement.html. Because the Felten case so clearly shows what's wrong with the DMCA, RIAA is desparately trying to convince the court that it need not, indeed cannot, make any decision in the Felten case. Therefore SDMI/RIAA is lying to the public and the court by saying that it never, *ever*, intended to sue or threaten. It was merely informing people about their rights, you see. They have moved to dismiss the case on the grounds that "we agree with the other side's legal analysis, so there's no issue for a court to decide." They only agree long enough to get out of that courtroom, then they'll find some way to be disagreeable again. The judge will decide whether to believe them or not; the papers are still being filed about that. > Princeton Professor Edward Felten and his research team were prevented > from presenting their results regarding flaws in SDMI at the Information > Hiding Workshop, based on a letter from the Recording Industry Association > of America which claimed that such publication would violate the DMCA. > In this case, the RIAA was mistaken about the application of the DMCA, > as the above analysis makes clear. Their mistakenness didn't prevent the RIAA from sending legal threats to every author of the Felten paper, every member of the conference committee that had decided to publish it, AND ALL OF THEIR BOSSES (one of whom, a US Navy commander, shamefully abandoned the soldier-under- fire who was reporting to him). It didn't prevent Adobe from getting its competitor Elcomsoft kicked off of four different spineless ISPs, by sending lawyer letters alleging copyright infringement TO THE ISP, when there was no copyright infringement going on. Mistakes in analysis, reconsidered a week later by Adobe, didn't prevent a US Attorney's office from bringing charges against Dmitry. Attorney General Ashcroft just announced that they're setting up a dozen more similar computer-and-copyright-prosecution task forces around the country -- none of which will have any practical experience with the DMCA yet. Their mistakes are your problem, not their problem, until YOU sue THEM. Will everyone in the infrastructure on whom you depend be as strong as you are in protecting your rights? After you lose your job, your Internet access, and your freedom of motion, because your scientific work threatened some lawyer-infested company's business model, if you have lots of spare money or raise lots of money somehow, you can have your day in court, "as the above analysis makes clear". And then maybe your judge will agree with the 2600 judge, or maybe he'll agree with the anonymous poster. Maybe the anonymous poster IS Judge Kaplan and he's changed his mind. I'll see you in court. John PS: EFF won't be able to take every case that comes along. The community's donations to EFF have been gratifying, useful, indeed essential. But there is far more money going into rabid company lawyers than is going into EFF or anywhere else for DMCA legal defense. It's classic public choice economics -- the benefit of the DMCA is concentrated in big profits to small numbers of companies, while the harm of the DMCA is spread widely through society. The companies will spend a lot to get those profits, while relatively few people will want to spend much to defend against them. EFF will have to pick which cases to focus on: ones where we can set precedents and get good leverage that will ultimately help the most people. But some people -- I predict many people -- are going to twist in the wind or in prison for years, before the courts or Congress are pushed into fixing the havoc caused by rabid copyright maximalists. So what if it decimates our profession? We're a tiny minority of society, and we don't bribe any legislators. They'll only notice that we matter after we're gone, when their security infrastructures fall to bits. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo@wasabisystems.com From alphageek at mediaone.net Sat Jul 28 15:03:25 2001 From: alphageek at mediaone.net (Eric C. Grimm) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Compromise? Balance? In-Reply-To: <01072814392103.27999@bill> Message-ID: William Ahern says: But, the internet gives power to the people. The internet is the great equalizer, and that's why all of those lusers out in dot.com land are so frustrated rent seeking. But, in order to keep it that way, and to keep the capacity for change in OUR hands, we need to keep it open. (that means fighting things like the DMCA and and also more subtle things like data-differentiation on the network, like what the big backbone providers are pushing for (think about the ATM craze)). So, on-the-whole things are probably brighter than what one could superficially take from your piece . . . __________________________ I certainly agree with you, at least to a point, William. The Interent certainly CAN be (or, more acurately, can become again) the "great equalizer." But certainly, no particular future is foreordained or inevitable. The Internet is what we (collectively) make of it. And, if we are not careful, the Internet and information technology generally it is at least equally likely to become -- as professor Lessig puts it -- "the instrument of perfect control" as it is to enhance freedom. Based on observing both technological and legislative developments for some time, I hate to say that I must put myself squarely in the camp of the "pessimists" along with Lawrence Lessig -- and perhaps our own resident editorialist / "journalist" / kibitzer from Wired. At least if the arrow of legislation over the past several years points in the general direction of where we are headed (and we can look to other signs like software licenses or frequency of surreptitious insertion of data collection mechanisms into both Interenet content and "client" software code), then I have to say the day of "perfect control" may be much closer at hand than the dawn of "perfect freedom." But again, that will be so only if people make it so. What say you? Eric C. Grimm CyberBrief, PLC 320 South Main Street P.O. Box 7341 Ann Arbor, MI 48107-7341 734.332.4900 fax 734.332.4901 eric.grimm@CyberBrief.net From wahern at 25thandClement.com Sat Jul 28 15:54:14 2001 From: wahern at 25thandClement.com (William Ahern) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:13 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Compromise? Balance? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072815541405.27999@bill> On Saturday 28 July 2001 15:03, Eric C. Grimm wrote: > I certainly agree with you, at least to a point, William. The Internet > certainly CAN be (or, more accurately, can become again) the "great > equalizer." But certainly, no particular future is foreordained or > inevitable. > > The Internet is what we (collectively) make of it. And, if we are not > careful, the Internet and information technology generally it is at least > equally likely to become -- as professor Lessig puts it -- "the instrument > of perfect control" as it is to enhance freedom. Based on observing both > technological and legislative developments for some time, I hate to say > that I must put myself squarely in the camp of the "pessimists" along with > Lawrence Lessig -- and perhaps our own resident editorialist / "journalist" > / kibitzer from Wired. > > At least if the arrow of legislation over the past several years points in > the general direction of where we are headed (and we can look to other > signs like software licenses or frequency of surreptitious insertion of > data collection mechanisms into both Interenet content and "client" > software code), then I have to say the day of "perfect control" may be much > closer at hand than the dawn of "perfect freedom." But again, that will be > so only if people make it so. > > What say you? > > Eric C. Grimm The internet is intriguing because it allows for almost perfect extremes. In the 'real' world space/time barriers still largely control how humans can construct a system. But on the internet, those barriers are much, much lower. I do agree that there are many signs eminating from 'traditional' institutions that would normally warrant pessimism. But, there is a point that can be made, that the balance of power (and I define power as the 'ability to affect change' locally-- for the individual-- and globally-- for a society) is being placed in the hands of individuals, both in the collective sense and also literally in the hands of each and every individual. By example, I would like to point at Gnutella, but more so at the FreeNet Project (and soon at my own project which is coming along nicely, AnonNet, which is similar to the commercial Freedom Network from Zero Knowledge Systems... shameless plug ;). These systems (specifically Freenet and AnonNet) have the capacity to force everybody to either choose between total freedom of information flow or none at all. So institutions like the U.S. Congress cannot avoid making difficult decisions. These systems de-centralize things, so that the only way an institution can be effective is by pin-pointing their control at 1) everybody, such as the DMCA criminalzes almost everybody or 2) only at those individuals that directly break societal norms (i.e. criminals). And not only that, but it seems to me that the phrase 'societal norms' cannot be fudged anymore, because only those who commit physical acts can be pin-pointed, and more mundane stuff like discussing cryptography can be conducted under the umbrella of anonymity. Anonymity is key, and it is something that even the U.S. Congress is keen on, given their [sometimes hypocritical] concern for privacy. Technology can indeed make anonymity possible and impenetrable. Today, though, the construction of systems that employ it can either be stopped dead in its tracks (such as banning crypto or by failing to adopt a critical following), or allowed to flourish, where it can erode the capacity of entities to unitlaterally 'affect change' (IOW, despotic institutions, however you imagine them). In any event, the internet not only places power in the hands of individuals, but it gives them the ability to keep it. The question, therefore, is not how that power will be eroded (we know how that can come about, its happens cyclically through history) but whether the people will exercise their very real ability to keep it. And on a side-note, it may even be possible for a minority, you or I solely, to retain that power (ability to affect change locally.. not necessarily globally)... but that remains to be seen. So, traditionally the argument for pessimism can be a valid one. Sometimes things work out, sometimes they don't. But it happens that way because entities can gain a monopoly on power. The internet, using devices such as anonymity, can erase those monopolies. It can give back power to the people and ensure its place there. That is something to be optimistic about. It may open a whole new can of worms, but its a new can, and something we have never tasted before. bon appetite. From proclus at iname.com Sat Jul 28 16:31:45 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology Poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107282331.f6SNVm217593@moerbeke> hmm, I didn't write this =}. Regards, proclus On 27 Jul, Xcott Craver wrote: > On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Michael L. Love wrote: > > "Crippled media" seems to be in the lead, with "limited rights > media" right behind. > > While I agree "crippled media" is accurate, my beef with it > is that it is only a term _we_ would use. It isn't the > kind of term you could get a lot of people to adopt, because > it sorta sounds more opinionated, and, of course, emotionally > charged. > > It certainly seems kooky for me to complain that a term isn't > dry and technical *enough*, because all my submissions > (e.g., "usage controlled") sound too dry and jargonny. But > a certain technical, official air is needed if you want the > term to creep into academic papers, cnn.com articles, etc. > > -S > > [The media will probably also avoid use of the word "crippled."] > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From paul at paultopia.net Sat Jul 28 16:39:51 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Compromise? Balance? In-Reply-To: References: <01072814392103.27999@bill> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010728173139.031e9e30@mail.paultopia.net> I'll add my own two centimes to this one. Such commentary basically being: that's why we're on the march. The new anti-corporate activism is the opposing force to this "total control" universe, and the geektavists in the world need to get with the program. It's not just the internet that creates the power structure. Fundamentally, the total informational control over the internet is just a new dimension to the total economic control (ie. globalism, with capital being mobile and labor being forced to stay in one place by immigration laws, with the expected monopolistic effects), the total political control (of bought politicians) and the total environmental control (again, capital is mobile. Nature is not. if capital were prohibited from flocking to nations with no environmental protections, maybe the people of the several nations would have some power.) that corporations presently have. The Sklyarov affair is archetypal. Capital, a corporation, reached across international boundaries to pluck out the eye that offended it. It did so using its political control to enforce its economic and informational control. All Adobe didn't do was chop down an old-growth forest. It's all the same problem. It's all the same solution -- weaken corporate power, increase democratic power. Hence the people in Genoa protesting the G-8 are working for exactly the same thing as the people in San Jose protesting the arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov. The internet is Not Special. -Paul ps. Love the e-mail address Eric. At 04:03 PM 7/28/01, Eric C. Grimm wrote: >William Ahern says: > >But, the internet gives power to the people. The internet is the great >equalizer, and that's why all of those lusers out in dot.com land are so >frustrated rent seeking. > >But, in order to keep it that way, and to keep the capacity for change in >OUR hands, we need to keep it open. (that means fighting things like the >DMCA and and also more subtle things like data-differentiation on the >network, like what the big backbone providers are pushing for (think about >the ATM craze)). > >So, on-the-whole things are probably brighter than what one could >superficially take from your piece . . . > >__________________________ > >I certainly agree with you, at least to a point, William. The Interent >certainly CAN be (or, more acurately, can become again) the "great >equalizer." But certainly, no particular future is foreordained or >inevitable. > >The Internet is what we (collectively) make of it. And, if we are not >careful, the Internet and information technology generally it is at least >equally likely to become -- as professor Lessig puts it -- "the instrument >of perfect control" as it is to enhance freedom. Based on observing both >technological and legislative developments for some time, I hate to say that >I must put myself squarely in the camp of the "pessimists" along with >Lawrence Lessig -- and perhaps our own resident editorialist / "journalist" >/ kibitzer from Wired. > >At least if the arrow of legislation over the past several years points in >the general direction of where we are headed (and we can look to other signs >like software licenses or frequency of surreptitious insertion of data >collection mechanisms into both Interenet content and "client" software >code), then I have to say the day of "perfect control" may be much closer at >hand than the dawn of "perfect freedom." But again, that will be so only if >people make it so. > >What say you? -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From mark at geekhive.net Sat Jul 28 16:40:50 2001 From: mark at geekhive.net (Mark Jaroski) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:14 2005 Subject: [mark@geekhive.net: Re: [free-sklyarov] Monday the 30th Plans] Message-ID: <20010728164050.A17981@geekhive.net> Peter A. Peterson II wrote: > Also, PLEASE make high-visibility signs this weekend. I'm going to make > a big sandwhich board when i get home sunday night. Also, consider > buying or bringing american flags down there -- it will make us look > "good" and draw people's interest. Are there any veterans on this list? When I saw that U.S. flag in San Jose last monday I thought it was wonderful, and really made the right point. It could be even more effect to have a couple of guys in uniform carrying it. -- -- -- mark at geekhive dot net ================================================================== From proclus at iname.com Sat Jul 28 16:49:46 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:14 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Compromise? Balance? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010728173139.031e9e30@mail.paultopia.net> Message-ID: <200107282349.f6SNnn217632@moerbeke> I'm in full agreement with this, and sorry I didn't add the antiglobalists to my earlier list. Bringing them in would make us much stronger IMHO, with a much broader base. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ On 28 Jul, Paul Gowder wrote: > I'll add my own two centimes to this one. Such commentary basically being: > that's why we're on the march. The new anti-corporate activism is the > opposing force to this "total control" universe, and the geektavists in the > world need to get with the program. > > It's not just the internet that creates the power > structure. Fundamentally, the total informational control over the > internet is just a new dimension to the total economic control (ie. > globalism, with capital being mobile and labor being forced to stay in one > place by immigration laws, with the expected monopolistic effects), the > total political control (of bought politicians) and the total environmental > control (again, capital is mobile. Nature is not. if capital were > prohibited from flocking to nations with no environmental protections, > maybe the people of the several nations would have some power.) that > corporations presently have. The Sklyarov affair is archetypal. Capital, > a corporation, reached across international boundaries to pluck out the eye > that offended it. It did so using its political control to enforce its > economic and informational control. All Adobe didn't do was chop down an > old-growth forest. > > It's all the same problem. It's all the same solution -- weaken corporate > power, increase democratic power. Hence the people in Genoa protesting the > G-8 are working for exactly the same thing as the people in San Jose > protesting the arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov. > > The internet is Not Special. > > -Paul > > ps. Love the e-mail address Eric. > > At 04:03 PM 7/28/01, Eric C. Grimm wrote: >>William Ahern says: >> >>But, the internet gives power to the people. The internet is the great >>equalizer, and that's why all of those lusers out in dot.com land are so >>frustrated rent seeking. >> >>But, in order to keep it that way, and to keep the capacity for change in >>OUR hands, we need to keep it open. (that means fighting things like the >>DMCA and and also more subtle things like data-differentiation on the >>network, like what the big backbone providers are pushing for (think about >>the ATM craze)). >> >>So, on-the-whole things are probably brighter than what one could >>superficially take from your piece . . . >> >>__________________________ >> >>I certainly agree with you, at least to a point, William. The Interent >>certainly CAN be (or, more acurately, can become again) the "great >>equalizer." But certainly, no particular future is foreordained or >>inevitable. >> >>The Internet is what we (collectively) make of it. And, if we are not >>careful, the Internet and information technology generally it is at least >>equally likely to become -- as professor Lessig puts it -- "the instrument >>of perfect control" as it is to enhance freedom. Based on observing both >>technological and legislative developments for some time, I hate to say that >>I must put myself squarely in the camp of the "pessimists" along with >>Lawrence Lessig -- and perhaps our own resident editorialist / "journalist" >>/ kibitzer from Wired. >> >>At least if the arrow of legislation over the past several years points in >>the general direction of where we are headed (and we can look to other signs >>like software licenses or frequency of surreptitious insertion of data >>collection mechanisms into both Interenet content and "client" software >>code), then I have to say the day of "perfect control" may be much closer at >>hand than the dawn of "perfect freedom." But again, that will be so only if >>people make it so. >> >>What say you? > > > -- > -Paul Gowder > > "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." > - Homer Simpson > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From mickeym at mindspring.com Sat Jul 28 17:11:51 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (Mickey McGown) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:14 2005 Subject: [mark@geekhive.net: Re: [free-sklyarov] Monday the 30th Plans] References: <20010728164050.A17981@geekhive.net> Message-ID: <3B6354C6.D82FB91C@mindspring.com> Are there any uniforms on our side? Mark Jaroski wrote: > Peter A. Peterson II wrote: > > Also, PLEASE make high-visibility signs this weekend. I'm going to make > > a big sandwhich board when i get home sunday night. Also, consider > > buying or bringing american flags down there -- it will make us look > > "good" and draw people's interest. > > Are there any veterans on this list? When I saw that U.S. flag > in San Jose last monday I thought it was wonderful, and really > made the right point. It could be even more effect to have a > couple of guys in uniform carrying it. > > -- > > -- > -- mark at geekhive dot net > ================================================================== > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From kastlyn at unixtribe.net Sat Jul 28 18:00:49 2001 From: kastlyn at unixtribe.net (Kastlyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:15 2005 Subject: [mark@geekhive.net: Re: [free-sklyarov] Monday the 30th Plans] In-Reply-To: <3B6354C6.D82FB91C@mindspring.com> Message-ID: So far as I know, soldiers (who are currently in the military) can not protest. They have to let it go (all the way?) through the courts, then I believe they can protest at that point, if they feel the courts made the wrong decision. -=amie=- On Sat, 28 Jul 2001, Mickey McGown wrote: > Are there any uniforms on our side? > > Mark Jaroski wrote: > > > Peter A. Peterson II wrote: > > > Also, PLEASE make high-visibility signs this weekend. I'm going to make > > > a big sandwhich board when i get home sunday night. Also, consider > > > buying or bringing american flags down there -- it will make us look > > > "good" and draw people's interest. > > > > Are there any veterans on this list? When I saw that U.S. flag > > in San Jose last monday I thought it was wonderful, and really > > made the right point. It could be even more effect to have a > > couple of guys in uniform carrying it. > > > > -- > > > > -- > > -- mark at geekhive dot net > > ================================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From robertl1 at home.com Sat Jul 28 18:38:52 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mainstream Support In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010728180950.02a2c850@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> At 02:11 PM 7/28/01 -0500, you wrote: >Outside of the hacker and digital communities, what "mainstream" >organizations have, so far, said that they "agree"? > >Which ones might? The civil rights movement was not invented last week by the programming community. Perhaps a quote from the ACLU history web site is in order, History of the ACLU When Roger Baldwin founded the ACLU in 1920, civil liberties were in a sorry state. Citizens were sitting in jail for holding antiwar views. U.S. Attorney General Palmer was conducting raids upon aliens suspected of holding unorthodox opinions. Racial segregation was the law of the land and violence against blacks was routine. Sex discrimination was firmly institutionalized; it wasn't until 1920 that women even got the vote. Constitutional rights for homosexuals, the poor, prisoners, mental patients, and other special groups were literally unthinkable. And, perhaps most significantly, the Supreme Court had yet to uphold a single free speech claim under the First Amendment. http://www.aclu-il.org/history.html We need to quit playing the lone ranger and do all we can to get the ACLU, People for the American Way, Amnesty International and other old line organizations involved. I have written email and called all of these organizations but it will be a big help if people can actually find some free time, go to their offices, and solicit their help. Here are some starting points from which with a little surfing you can turn up local offices and contact information. http://www.aclu.org/ http://www.pfaw.org/ http://www.amnesty.org/ http://www.amnesty-usa.org/ Help grow this list of allies. We need to bring in as many of the old troops as well as the new blood. These old line organizations are well organized and can help both in turning out the troops and in providing resources to the legal effort. For our part we need to recognize that for all their good work the old line organizations may need some coaching on technical issues just as I belive we need coaching on the realities of successful civil rights action. Now for a real league with the devil let's try MilbergWiess. http://www.milberg.com/ This could be a very innovative approach that if it works would put the fear of god into the entire Silicon Valley crowd. I am not certain what the angle would be, but I would love to brainstrom with a creative young lawyer on an angle of attack. Just think how interesting this would get if the FBI were looking at a complaint against John Warnock for a violation of the DMCA by Adobe. The damn law is so absurd that Adobe may well have violated it themselves. >Is anyone attempting to solicit their aid in this? I am. I would surely love to see some other members of the community work to solicit these organizations help. Bob La Quey "I'm afraid the ACLU does not have the gift of making itself popular. Supporting the Bill of Rights, in fact, generally makes you about as popular as a whore tryin' to get into the SMU Theology School. -- Molly Ivins, Newspaper Columnist/Author From schoen at loyalty.org Sat Jul 28 18:41:16 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] My own DMCA song Message-ID: <20010728184116.B1181@zork.net> (with apologies not only to the Village People but also to the other three people who have independently written parodies of "DMCA") Young man, what has your research found? I said Young man, are you breakin' new ground? I said Young man, now you oughtta feel proud, but THIS BOOK CAN NOT BE READ ALOUD! Young man, there's a law on the books, I said young man, it says readers are crooks, I said young man, you should take a good look: Title Seventeen, Chapter Twelve. It's paracopyright, DMCA Eroding readers' rights, DMCA. They have modified our old copyright laws to make the AAP the boss... It's paracopyright, DMCA Eroding readers' rights, DMCA. You can't tape off the air; how does that make you feel? You can't lend books to friends, under this eBook deal: 1201(a) is now for Real. Young man, are you listening to me? I said Young man, you say 1201(g) has ex- emptions for your research? But you got to know this one thing! Industry still calls the shots. I said young man, if you speak of your thoughts, and you go there, then the DMCA will let Ashcroft put you away. It's paracopyright, DMCA Eroding readers' rights, DMCA. They have modified our old copyright laws to make the AAP the boss... It's paracopyright, DMCA Eroding readers' rights, DMCA. You can't shift your formats, 'cause they said you would steal, 1201(a) is now for Real! Young man, they want us to confuse making copies with just trying to use software to let blind folks peruse digital books locked up tight! That's why someone has to stand up, and say listen, reading's a human right; there's a bad law called the DMCA -- Free Mr. Sklyarov today! It's paracopyright, DMCA Eroding readers' rights, DMCA. They have modified our old copyright laws to make the AAP the boss... DMCA, squashing speech, it's the DMCA... Young men, young men, there's no need to jail them. Young men, young men, work for this bad law's end! DMCA, kills fair use, it's the DMCA... Young men, young men, there's no need to jail them. Young men, young men, work for this bad law's end! DMCA, just reject the DMCA... Young man, young man, are you listening to me? Young man, young man, don't trust 1201(g)! -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe From klepht at eleutheria.org Sat Jul 28 19:08:51 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87puaka3m4.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> So, one thing to think about, when considering this case, is that it's quite possible that by the letter of the law, Dmitry did something illegal. That is why we think this law is _wrong_. We don't want this law enforced, and if we can get it repealed, we want it repealed. Laws are not written in stone*. They are proposed, they are amended, they are subtly changed and nuanced by precedence in the courts. They can be repealed, overturned, obsoleted or merely forgotten. Saying "what Dmitry did was not illegal" goes down a big rathole that very few people around here are going to be able to argue about well. Saying, "Dmitry's work was in a legal tradition of academic freedom, freedom of expression, and fair use," seems to me to be more accurate and less in dispute. Personally, I'd like to see the DMCA overturned or repealed. But I'd also be happy one day to be reading the trivia section of a newspaper that says, "In the USA, it's technically illegal to write certain kinds of code or talk about certain kinds of security." And getting a good chuckle out of it, because it's just one of those ridiculous old laws that don't matter any more, but somehow never got struck from the books. By getting Adobe to drop its complaint, and getting the US Attorney to drop the charges, we can raise the bar on enforcement of the unfair and unjust DMCA. If we do this, we move it one step closer to the dustbin of legal history. So let's. ~Klepht * Or, rather, they haven't been for a couple thousand years, except decoratively. -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Sat Jul 28 19:09:46 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Announce on Craig's list? In-Reply-To: <20010728134009.G33344@networkcommand.com> References: <20010728134009.G33344@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <87lml8a3kl.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JO" == Jon O writes: JO> Someone might want to promote the information to Craig's JO> list. There is also the regional function which can assist JO> locally... The SF event is already announced on Craig's List. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From schoen at loyalty.org Sat Jul 28 19:34:57 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:15 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry Sklyarov location update Message-ID: <20010728193457.H1181@zork.net> Dmitry Sklyarov was moved from Las Vegas on Friday and was in Federal custody in Oklahoma as of Saturday, July 28. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From declan at well.com Sat Jul 28 19:44:37 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry Sklyarov location update In-Reply-To: <20010728193457.H1181@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 07:34:57PM -0700 References: <20010728193457.H1181@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010728224437.C21154@cluebot.com> The reason for the Oklahoma detour, from last week: http://www.cluebot.com/article.pl?sid=01/07/19/2332232&mode=thread On Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 07:34:57PM -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote: > Dmitry Sklyarov was moved from Las Vegas on Friday and was in Federal > custody in Oklahoma as of Saturday, July 28. > > -- > Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested > Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull > down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with > http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sat Jul 28 19:49:43 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mainstream Support In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010728180950.02a2c850@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: I asked: Outside of the hacker and digital communities, what "mainstream" organizations have, so far, said that they "agree"? Which ones might? Someone suggested the ACM. It is perhaps a bit close to technology, and not as "mainstream" as I was looking for, but all company is welcome. Then it was suggested: The civil rights movement was not invented last week by the programming community. We need to quit playing the lone ranger and do all we can to get the ACLU, People for the American Way, Amnesty International and other old line organizations involved. Ok. The civil rights community. Now, let me follow up. Who else? Anyone? James S. Huggins From klepht at eleutheria.org Sat Jul 28 19:58:04 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:17 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mainstream Support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87ofq48mrn.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JSH\S" == James S Huggins \(Free Sklyarov\) writes: JSH\S> Who else? Anyone? Who do you consider "mainstream"? Who do you want to get letters to to get them to give an opinion? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From kfoss at planetpdf.com Sat Jul 28 20:17:02 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry Sklyarov location update In-Reply-To: <20010728193457.H1181@zork.net> References: <20010728193457.H1181@zork.net> Message-ID: At 7:34 PM -0700 7/28/01, Seth David Schoen wrote: >Dmitry Sklyarov was moved from Las Vegas on Friday and was in Federal >custody in Oklahoma as of Saturday, July 28. FWIW, the Russian news service ITAR-TASS is reporting today that 'Russian programmer Dmitriy Sklyarova transferred to California prison' (rough translation); article says he's been moved to San Jose. Of course, they may not have the full stroy on the route, but rather only the eventual destination. rgds ~ Kurt -- ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sat Jul 28 20:15:18 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mainstream Support In-Reply-To: <87ofq48mrn.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: =================================== Who do you consider "mainstream"? Who do you want to get letters to to get them to give an opinion? =================================== Good question about "mainstream". I guess I mean Large, national organizations with purposes OTHER THAN DMCA and technology, with established lobbying and/or public communication infrastructures, which are either known by the public or which when introduced to the public will "seem" "not radical" and which are likely to be able to get a congressman's ear. Those offered so far (ACM, ACLU, PAW, Amnesty International, etc.) are good starts. James S. Huggins From klepht at eleutheria.org Sat Jul 28 20:14:28 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] One More Shirt Message-ID: <87k80s8m0b.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Check it: http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/things/38ff.html Free Dmitry! ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From robertl1 at home.com Sat Jul 28 20:31:32 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mainstream Support Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010728203125.02d9eec0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> At 09:49 PM 7/28/01 -0500, you wrote: >I asked: >Outside of the hacker and digital communities, what "mainstream" >organizations have, so far, said that they "agree"? > >Which ones might? > > >Someone suggested the ACM. It is perhaps a bit close to technology, and not >as "mainstream" as I was looking for, but all company is welcome. > > >Then it was suggested: >The civil rights movement was not invented last week by the programming >community. > >We need to quit playing the lone ranger and do all we can to get the ACLU, >People for the American Way, Amnesty International and other old line >organizations involved. > > >Ok. The civil rights community. > > >Now, let me follow up. > >Who else? Anyone? > > > >James S. Huggins A very good resource for Civil Liberties, Crypto, & Privacy Policy Advocacy Groups... http://www.stanford.edu/%7Ehodges/#resources many of whom should be aware and interested in supporting this cause. Bob La Quey From klepht at eleutheria.org Sat Jul 28 20:36:51 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:18 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Name For San Francisco Group Message-ID: <87zo9o76ek.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> So, one of the things that has come up in recent days with the SF crowd is what to call our group. Although we'd decided on "SPANK" at one point, Nick kind of put out a couple of announcements on them with "Coalition to Free Dmitry." Under duress at various public buildings last week, I also used "Coalition to Free Dmitry" on most of the legal papers. Partly because of Nick's announces, and partly because I couldn't remember what "SPANK" stood for. B-) So I think we're now the de facto "Coalition to Free Dmitry." If anyone asks, which they seem to do. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From ed at hintz.org Sat Jul 28 20:36:02 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:18 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: [free-sklyarov] May be of interest. (fwd) Message-ID: <200107290337.f6T3bKc08683@phil.hintz.org> Well, that's one person who saw the light. 50 million to go... ;-) FWIW, anybody who wants to is welcome to use my spiel to Linda in a webpage or whatever. As Linda mentions, it may not be a bad idea to keep up some pressure on Adobe, they started this mess and they sure as hell have the resources to finish it if the decide they want to. ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Date: 7/28/01 1:10 PM Received: 7/28/01 8:08 PM From: Linda, kat7@kats-korner.com To: Edmund A. Hintz, ed@hintz.org Thank you for all of the replies on this matter. It is clear that Adobe offered me a ton of spin ... if not outright lies. After reading all of the replies ... it is clear change is necessary. I hate to say this and rain on everyone's parade ... but the gov. does not give a flying flip about public opinion ... they do not care if they have done something wrong ... they simply pretend they have followed the law. They will make it this young mans challenge to prove them wrong. Hopefully they will see no reason to follow thru and continue to detain him. On the other hand Adobe has a lot to loose in the PR department. I suggest you take the response that was sent to me and break it apart and answer it for the public just as you have for me ... I think the public needs to see how the art of spin works ... you can bet Adobe monitors your site ...if in reality they have not put their shoulder to the wheel to release this young man then maybe they will or perhaps renew effort on his behalf. You have my permission to reprint any or all of the letter I sent to you if you like ... you also have permission to print my e-mail address for confirmation I do not remember where I found the Boycott Adobe banner ... it was very effective because I NEVER CLICK THOSE THINGS. I can tell you from experience that in most of the cases where government agencies nab someone or something they have some kind of firm footing. I can see in this case under the circumstance it was more than foolish for this young man to come to the states ... it was like waving a red flag under a bulls nose and this kid got gored. I don't like it ... you don't like it ... no doubt we can all see things need to get changed and things that are being and have been done wrong. Sometimes you work with officials who will listen to reason and have some degree of cognitive brain activity available to them ... at other times you will deal with dolts who only understand the letter of the law not the intent and there in lies the problem. Again I thank you for all of your replies and I will keep an interested eye on your progress. I would appreciate being put on any update list you may have for this case. Thank you, Linda Porasso ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edmund A. Hintz" To: "Derek Gladding" ; Cc: Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 12:48 PM Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] May be of interest. (fwd) > Hello Linda, > > My apologies for the intrusion. Mr. Gladding gave an excellent reply > regarding Adobe's statements, but there is one piece of evidence I think > is important for consideration. Regarding the Adobe PR statement: > > >> 4. Adobe had NOTHING to do with the arrest of Dimitry. This was a > >> unilateral decision of the Justice Dept. We were as surprised at the > >> arrest as everyone else. We have no influence with the Justice Dept as > >> to who they prosecute under United States criminal law. > > The documents filed in the US District Court of Northern California > by the FBI on 28 June can be found at this web address in .pdf format: > > http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/20010707_complaint.pdf > > This document describes an initial meeting on 26 June, between FBI > Agent Daniel J. O'Connell; Kevin Nathanson, Group Product Manager, > ebooks, Adobe; and Daryl Spano, Technical Investigator, > Investigations/AntiPiracy, Adobe. The following quote is from page 5 of > Agent OConnell's sworn statement: > > >e. Adobe has learned that Dmitry Skylarov is slated to speak on July 15, > >2001 at a confrence entitled Defcon-9 at Las Vegas Nevada. Spano told me > >that he learned that Sklyrarov is scheduled to make a presentation related > >to the AEBPR software program. > > In light of this information, I find it difficult to believe that > *everyone* at Adobe was "surprised" by the arrest. It seems to me that > Mr. Spano and Mr. Nathanson essentially handed a gift wrapped package to > the FBI, signed sealed and delivered. I don't want to say that Adobe is > lying-perhaps the persons in Marketing or Public Relations were genuinely > surprised. I find it extremely difficult to believe, however, that Mr. > Spano and Mr. Nathanson were "surprised" by the actions of the FBI and > the Department of Justice. Frankly, I would compare this statement to > that of Major Strasser, in the classic movie Casablanca, being "shocked" > at gambling going on at Rick's place, while accepting his winnings from > the roulette table. > > By all means, I encourage you, and all others, to read the complaint > yourselves, and come to your own conclusions. If your conclusions are > that Mr. Skylarov is being unlawfully held captive by a foreign state, I > urge you to join us in whatever way you feel comfortable in calling for > the immediate and unconditional release of Mr. Skylarov. > > Thank you for your time and your concern, and the best of luck to > you in your future endeavors. > > > Peace, > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, > Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... > Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, > */ | \* And the world will live as one. > '78 Westy ***** Imagine." > http://www.hintz.org > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mw at themail.com Sat Jul 28 20:39:14 2001 From: mw at themail.com (mw@themail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress doubling number of DMCA, copyright federal police Message-ID: <200107282338413.SM00201@mail.TheMail.com> that's quite interesting. looks like a flush. and who is holding the cards? ****** Original Message ****** From: Declan McCullagh Sent: Sat 07/28/2001 04:27 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] Congress doubling number of DMCA, copyright federal police Just think of it: $6 million more for investigations and prosecutions, > >plus $4 million for better computers. The DMCA is a budget growth > >opportunity for the FBI and DOJ, don't ya think? > > > >-Declan > > > > > >target="_new">http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45608,00.html > > > > Congress Covets Copyright Cops > > By Declan McCullagh (declan@wired.com) > > 2:00 a.m. July 28, 2001 PDT > > > > WASHINGTON -- If you've ever contemplated violating the Digital > > Millennium Copyright Act, be warned: Congress is set to more than > > double the number of federal copyright cops. > > > > A draft of next year's budget includes plans to hire far more Justice > > Department attorneys and FBI agents who are charged with placing more > > pirates in prison. > > > > This comes one week after Attorney General John Ashcroft spoke in > > Mountain View, California, about the threat of online piracy. In the > > same week, geek protesters demanded the release of Dmitry Sklyarov, a > > Russian programmer arrested on felony copyright charges. > > > > That's exactly what should be happening, according to a Senate > > committee report. In an apparent reference to the prosecution, it > > says: "The committee is aware that the FBI has launched an initiative > > to investigate violations of federal copyright laws protecting >certain > > marketed software applications. The committee supports FBI >efforts..." > > > > The Senate has earmarked $10 million for copyright prosecutions, > > enough money for 155 agents and attorneys in the fiscal year starting > > in October. That's up from a current $4 million allocated for 75 > > positions. > > > > Copyright holders, who applauded the prosecution of Sklyarov on > > charges of violating the controversial DMCA, said they hoped the > > additional cash will put more DMCA pirates and copyright thieves > > behind bars. > > > > [...] > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list > >You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. > >To subscribe, visit href="http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html" >target="_new">http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html > >This message is archived at target="_new">http://www.politechbot.com/ > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >----- End forwarded message ----- > > > >----- End forwarded message ----- > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >target="_new">http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________________________ TheMail.com - Full featured premium email you can count on. Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ From bobds at blorch.org Sat Jul 28 20:46:02 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? In-Reply-To: <87puaka3m4.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> References: <87puaka3m4.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <01072820460201.25820@bitworks> On Saturday 28 July 2001 19:08, you wrote: > By getting Adobe to drop its complaint, and getting the US Attorney to > drop the charges, we can raise the bar on enforcement of the unfair > and unjust DMCA. If we do this, we move it one step closer to the > dustbin of legal history. Here, I must disagree. If the government can waltz in and bully someone like this, then just slither away when the lights come on, then this doesn't "raise the bar." It affirms that they can come wreck your life any time they want, and then walk away without any accountability, free to do it again whenever they feel like it. If they let Dmitry go TODAY, their real mission has already been accomplished: they've made an example of him, they've demonstrated that they CAN exercise this kind of power at will, and I have no doubt that they've put the fear of God into a lot of people who might otherwise have been inclined to exercise their civil rights. If this whole thing plays through to a conclusive resolution, such as outright overturning of the DMCA, THEN there will have been some meaningful limits established. Otherwise, the other shoe is still ready to drop any time and on anybody. If they release him voluntarily, the lasting point that will have been established is that this is within their discretion--that they GET to choose whether to keep him and others like him locked up and for how long. Furthermore, I see a trend of escalation, here: recent previous attacks on fair use and free speech have mostly taken the form of civil suits--but now, the bar has indeed been raised, by making this a criminal matter. If they don't get slapped down hard and definitively about this, then I think it's only prudent to anticipate that there will be further escalation, in terms of the penalties sought, in terms of the expansion of what constitutes an offense, or both. Why would DOJ ease up, when so far they've been successful? Laws that stay on the books "but nobody actually enforces them any more, do they?" are first-rate tools for oppression by selective enforcement--for example, "sodomy" laws that technically criminalize activities that heterosexuals engage in all the time, but somehow by sheer coincidence, the only people who ever get prosecuted happen to be gay. -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sat Jul 28 20:44:45 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] One More Shirt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ====================================== Check it: http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/things/38ff.html ====================================== I have ordered mine. Are there any other "similar" things available (preferably with portions of the price going to one of the support organizations) that I might have missed so far? James S. Huggins From jono at microshaft.org Sat Jul 28 20:49:00 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Compromise? Balance? In-Reply-To: <200107282349.f6SNnn217632@moerbeke>; from proclus@iname.com on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 07:49:46PM -0400 References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010728173139.031e9e30@mail.paultopia.net> <200107282349.f6SNnn217632@moerbeke> Message-ID: <20010728204900.K33344@networkcommand.com> What about all the Union Workers that protested in Seattle? There is wide ranging support for these issues and if we can coordinate the action I think change will occur. The first step to this goal is a simple statement which explains how all the issues relate. I've made attempts with the DMCA FAQ, but that was ad hoc and written quite quickly. I think we need a statement of concerns and also something to present as a "shared support" system. Any ideas? On 28-Jul-2001, proclus@iname.com wrote: > I'm in full agreement with this, and sorry I didn't add the > antiglobalists to my earlier list. Bringing them in would make us much > stronger IMHO, with a much broader base. > > Regards, > proclus > http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > > On 28 Jul, Paul Gowder wrote: > > I'll add my own two centimes to this one. Such commentary basically being: > > that's why we're on the march. The new anti-corporate activism is the > > opposing force to this "total control" universe, and the geektavists in the > > world need to get with the program. > > > > It's not just the internet that creates the power > > structure. Fundamentally, the total informational control over the > > internet is just a new dimension to the total economic control (ie. > > globalism, with capital being mobile and labor being forced to stay in one > > place by immigration laws, with the expected monopolistic effects), the > > total political control (of bought politicians) and the total environmental > > control (again, capital is mobile. Nature is not. if capital were > > prohibited from flocking to nations with no environmental protections, > > maybe the people of the several nations would have some power.) that > > corporations presently have. The Sklyarov affair is archetypal. Capital, > > a corporation, reached across international boundaries to pluck out the eye > > that offended it. It did so using its political control to enforce its > > economic and informational control. All Adobe didn't do was chop down an > > old-growth forest. > > > > It's all the same problem. It's all the same solution -- weaken corporate > > power, increase democratic power. Hence the people in Genoa protesting the > > G-8 are working for exactly the same thing as the people in San Jose > > protesting the arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov. > > > > The internet is Not Special. > > > > -Paul > > > > ps. Love the e-mail address Eric. > > > > At 04:03 PM 7/28/01, Eric C. Grimm wrote: > >>William Ahern says: > >> > >>But, the internet gives power to the people. The internet is the great > >>equalizer, and that's why all of those lusers out in dot.com land are so > >>frustrated rent seeking. > >> > >>But, in order to keep it that way, and to keep the capacity for change in > >>OUR hands, we need to keep it open. (that means fighting things like the > >>DMCA and and also more subtle things like data-differentiation on the > >>network, like what the big backbone providers are pushing for (think about > >>the ATM craze)). > >> > >>So, on-the-whole things are probably brighter than what one could > >>superficially take from your piece . . . > >> > >>__________________________ > >> > >>I certainly agree with you, at least to a point, William. The Interent > >>certainly CAN be (or, more acurately, can become again) the "great > >>equalizer." But certainly, no particular future is foreordained or > >>inevitable. > >> > >>The Internet is what we (collectively) make of it. And, if we are not > >>careful, the Internet and information technology generally it is at least > >>equally likely to become -- as professor Lessig puts it -- "the instrument > >>of perfect control" as it is to enhance freedom. Based on observing both > >>technological and legislative developments for some time, I hate to say that > >>I must put myself squarely in the camp of the "pessimists" along with > >>Lawrence Lessig -- and perhaps our own resident editorialist / "journalist" > >>/ kibitzer from Wired. > >> > >>At least if the arrow of legislation over the past several years points in > >>the general direction of where we are headed (and we can look to other signs > >>like software licenses or frequency of surreptitious insertion of data > >>collection mechanisms into both Interenet content and "client" software > >>code), then I have to say the day of "perfect control" may be much closer at > >>hand than the dawn of "perfect freedom." But again, that will be so only if > >>people make it so. > >> > >>What say you? > > > > > > -- > > -Paul Gowder > > > > "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." > > - Homer Simpson > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > -- > Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version: 3.1 > GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O > M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ > h--- r+++ y++++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From mlc67 at columbia.edu Sat Jul 28 20:49:42 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] One More Shirt In-Reply-To: ; from FreeSklyarov@ZName.com on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 10:44:45PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010728204942.G6517@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> It would be far more productive to simply send your money directly to an organization you support. The insertion of a rant against consumer culture and how we feel we have to *buy stuff* in order to accomplish things and make ourselves feel better is left as an exercise for the reader. On Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 10:44:45PM -0500, James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov) wrote: > Are there any other "similar" things available (preferably with portions of > the price going to one of the support organizations) that I might have > missed so far? -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // current location: berkeley, ca, us // ph: +1 (646) 382-7220 // FREE DMITRY! See http://freesklyarov.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010728/56d06e8b/attachment.pgp From jono at microshaft.org Sat Jul 28 20:52:10 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:19 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [declan@well.com: FC: U.K. anti-terrorism law imperils hackers, privacy, property] Message-ID: <20010728205210.N33344@networkcommand.com> ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 20:51:49 -0400 From: Declan McCullagh To: politech@politechbot.com Subject: FC: U.K. anti-terrorism law imperils hackers, privacy, property User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.2i X-URL: http://www.mccullagh.org/ Precedence: bulk Reply-To: declan@well.com X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ X-Author: Declan McCullagh is at http://www.mccullagh.org/ X-News-Site: Cluebot is at http://www.cluebot.com/ http://www.cluebot.com/article.pl?sid=01/07/28/2336239&mode=nested U.K. Anti-Terrorism Law Imperils Hackers, Privacy posted by cicero on Saturday July 28, @06:34PM from the how-nice-that-hackers-are-covered-too dept. A U.K. law that took effect this year gives police far-ranging powers to make warrantless arrests, enter buildings without court orders, and punish people for having information that could be useful to terrorists. The measure, called the Terrorism Act of 2000, received royal assent in July 2000. It became law in February 2001. Parliament, after lengthy debate, defined "terrorism" as any threat to influence any government (U.K. or other) or group "for the purpose of advancing a political, religious or ideological cause." Actions that are punishable include those that threaten or carry out "serious damage to property," endanger public safety, or are are "designed seriously to interfere with or seriously to disrupt an electronic system." If you think that covers hackers, well, you're right. And it's no accident. A ZDNET article reports that: "Computer hackers could be classed as terrorists under a U.K. law." So does this Register writeup. An IDG article in February confirmed that the Home Office plans to prosecute hackers under the Terrorism Act. Unfortunately, the reporter never mentioned some of the more disturbing aspects of the law. It allows police to randomly stop people on streets, who are then required to give their names (so much for anonymity) or go to prison. Cops can seize any cash that they believe "is intended to be used for the purposes of terrorism," with no court authorization required. Gone is the traditional burden of proof: Judges are required to assume that contraband in the same building as the accused is owned by the accused "unless he proves that he did not know of its presence on the premises or that he had no control over it." Perhaps the most fascinating section restricts even owning information that could be useful to "a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism." If hackers are terrorists, better delete your copy of Back Orifice and bugtraq archives now. This Draconian law can be explained by the uneasy situation in Northern Ireland, which has been marked by recent car bombs and grenade attacks reportedly performed by IRA factions. (The law is, according to the Home Office, designed to be one uniform measure "to replace the existing, separate pieces of temporary legislation for Northern Ireland and Great Britain.") Americans, be warned. Congress is spending more and more time talking about bio-chem, Internet, and nuclear attacks. Soon you could be facing the same invasions of privacy and property. At least the spirit of John Locke isn't completely dead in his native land. "The legislation which gives the authorities extra powers should have to be renewed by parliament regularly rather than being permanent legislation. The definition of terrorism is also far too wide, in spite of significant efforts by Liberal Democrats and others in parliament to improve it," Simon Hughes, Liberal Democrat Shadow Home Secretary, said in a statement. The Liberal Democrats are the third largest political party. In a discussion on a U.K. mailing list, Ross Anderson of Cambridge University said that the law was written so broadly that it could imperil his computer security work. Predicted Anderson: "So now we know. We are all terrorists now!" Another list member chimed in: "So interfering with an electronic system in order to advance a political cause seems to me to be covered, or at least it could be argued that it was covered. Is defacing a website 'terrorism?' Or distributing a stupid word macro by email? It looks as if, had the 'love bug' mail message contain a political or religious slogan it could be defined as terrorism by this standard. Below are some excerpts from the law. You can find the complete text at www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/20000011.htm, and a protest site at http://www.blagged.freeserve.co.uk/ta2000/index.htm. _________________________________________________________________ EXCERPTS FROM TERRORISM ACT: Arrest of suspected terrorists power of entry. 81. A constable may enter and search any premises if he reasonably suspects that a terrorist, within the meaning of section 40(1)(b), is to be found there. Terrorist information. 103. - (1) A person commits an offence if- (a) he collects, makes a record of, publishes, communicates or attempts to elicit information about a person to whom this section applies which is of a kind likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism, or (b) he possesses a document or record containing information of that kind. Arrest without warrant. 41. - (1) A constable may arrest without a warrant a person whom he reasonably suspects to be a terrorist. (2) Where a person is arrested under this section the provisions of Schedule 8 (detention treatment, review and extension) shall apply. Search of persons. 43. - (1) A constable may stop and search a person whom he reasonably suspects to be a terrorist to discover whether he has in his possession anything which may constitute evidence that he is a terrorist. Power to stop and search Authorisations. 44. - (1) An authorisation under this subsection authorises any constable in uniform to stop a vehicle in an area or at a place specified in the authorisation and to search [vehicle, driver, passenger, etc.] Possession onus of proof. 77. - (1) This section applies to a trial on indictment for a scheduled offence where the accused is charged with possessing an article in such circumstances as to constitute an offence under any of the enactments listed in subsection (3). (2) If it is proved that the article- (a) was on any premises at the same time as the accused, or (b) was on premises of which the accused was the occupier or which he habitually used otherwise than as a member of the public, the court may assume that the accused possessed (and, if relevant, knowingly possessed) the article, unless he proves that he did not know of its presence on the premises or that he had no control over it. Explosives inspectors. 85. - (1) An explosives inspector may enter and search any premises for the purpose of ascertaining whether any explosive is unlawfully there. (2) The power under subsection (1) may not be exercised in relation to a dwelling. Power of entry. 90. - (1) An officer may enter any premises if he considers it necessary in the course of operations for the preservation of the peace or the maintenance of order. Penalties. 22. A person guilty of an offence under any of sections 15 to 18 shall be liable- (a) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 14 years, to a fine or to both, or (b) on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or to both. Seizure and detention. 25. - (1) An authorised officer may seize and detain any cash to which this section applies if he has reasonable grounds for suspecting that- (a) it is intended to be used for the purposes of terrorism, Weapons training. 54. - (1) A person commits an offence if he provides instruction or training in the making or use of- (a) firearms, (b) explosives, or (c) chemical, biological or nuclear weapons. It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section in relation to instruction or training to prove that his action or involvement was wholly for a purpose other than assisting, preparing for or participating in terrorism. Collection of information. 58. - (1) A person commits an offence if- (a) he collects or makes a record of information of a kind likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism, or (b) he possesses a document or record containing information of that kind. (2) In this section "record" includes a photographic or electronic record. (3) It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had a reasonable excuse for his action or possession. Power to stop and question. 89. - (1) An officer may stop a person for so long as is necessary to question him to ascertain- (a) his identity and movements; (b) what he knows about a recent explosion or another recent incident endangering life; (c) what he knows about a person killed or injured in a recent explosion or incident. (2) A person commits an offence if he- (a) fails to stop when required to do so under this section, (b) refuses to answer a question addressed to him under this section, or (c) fails to answer to the best of his knowledge and ability a question addressed to him under this section. (3) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale. (4) In this section "officer" means- (a) a member of Her Majesty's forces on duty, or (b) a constable. ### ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- End forwarded message ----- From klepht at eleutheria.org Sat Jul 28 21:01:31 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] One More Shirt In-Reply-To: <20010728204942.G6517@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> References: <20010728204942.G6517@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <87k80s759g.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "mc" == mike castleman writes: mc> The insertion of a rant against consumer culture and how we mc> feel we have to *buy stuff* in order to accomplish things and mc> make ourselves feel better is left as an exercise for the mc> reader. The use of T-shirts as propaganda tools should not be downplayed. There's another shirt at Copyleft: http://www.copyleft.net/item.phtml?dynamic=1&page=product_1270_front.phtml And, of course, old-timers in the SF Bay Area have the Boycott Adobe/Free Dmitry T-shirt, which is a great collectors' item. B-) ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From bobds at blorch.org Sat Jul 28 21:10:12 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mainstream Support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072821101202.25820@bitworks> On Saturday 28 July 2001 20:15, you wrote: > I guess I mean > Large, national organizations with purposes OTHER THAN DMCA and technology, > with established lobbying and/or public communication infrastructures, > which are either known by the public or which when introduced to the public > will "seem" "not radical" and which are likely to be able to get a > congressman's ear. Yes, indeed. People need to understand that this isn't just some obscure, technical dust-up that only affects "those nerdy people." In fact, this affects everyone who uses or someday might wish to use a public library. In that vein: did anybody else think of the American Library Association (www.ala.org)? They've been under some fire about these issues, too. The ALA has described the whole tone of recent copyright developments as "unsettling," and well they might. "Copyright" historically means "the right to make copies," but recently the focus has been more and more on restricting and controlling ACCESS, not copying. Publishers aren't complaining that libraries are making unauthorized copies--they're upset that people can just walk in off the street and access copyrighted material without paying repeatedly for each use. Since libraries have traditionally been in the business of facilitating access, not restricting it, this is a huge issue for them. -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sat Jul 28 21:13:45 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] One More Shirt In-Reply-To: <87k80s759g.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: ================================ There's another shirt at Copyleft: http://www.copyleft.net/item.phtml?dynamic=1&page=product_1270_front.phtml ================================ Thanks. Got it. ============================================== And, of course, old-timers in the SF Bay Area have the Boycott Adobe/Free Dmitry T-shirt, which is a great collectors' item. B-) ============================================== For which I would gladly both pay and make a donation if there are any "extras". James S. Huggins From bobds at blorch.org Sat Jul 28 21:21:37 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] One More Shirt In-Reply-To: <87k80s759g.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> References: <20010728204942.G6517@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> <87k80s759g.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <01072821213703.25820@bitworks> On Saturday 28 July 2001 21:01, you wrote: > The use of T-shirts as propaganda tools should not be downplayed. Absolutely! Whenever I wear my "No DVD/CSS" shirt, there's always somebody--and typically not a geek, just an ordinary, curious citizen--who comes up and asks me what it means. Naturally, they get an earful of my anti-MPAA propaganda. They'd have never approached me if I weren't wearing the shirt. Now, if only I could get the same kind of response with my "Let the fucking BEGIN!" shirt.... -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From mlc67 at columbia.edu Sat Jul 28 21:24:00 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] One More Shirt In-Reply-To: <87k80s759g.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 09:01:31PM -0700 References: <20010728204942.G6517@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> <87k80s759g.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010728212400.H6517@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> On Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 09:01:31PM -0700, Klepht wrote: > > The use of T-shirts as propaganda tools should not be downplayed. Of course t-shirts are useful propaganda tools. (Although, they are more useful for finding out that random people on the street are already part of your movement and letting them know that you are.) However, I'm complaining about the need to "collect 'em all" or something where owning the item has a greater importance to you than usefulness to the movement. This is getting way way off topic, so I promise to shut up now and not write any more messages to this thread. -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // current location: berkeley, ca, us // ph: +1 (646) 382-7220 // FREE DMITRY! See http://freesklyarov.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010728/f1e4a29a/attachment.pgp From mark at blorch.org Sat Jul 28 21:30:23 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] LOS ANGELES: leafletting update In-Reply-To: <87k80s759g.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> References: <20010728204942.G6517@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> <87k80s759g.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <01072821302302.03571@bilbo.blorch.org> Just to let folks know... We had a really good leafletting campaign at the Santa Monica promenade. Had a total of around 1,700 flyers at the start and in only about an hour and a half were scraping the bottom. AND the folks who stayed on after I left were running off more. We could easily have hit or passed 2,000 passed out. Applause to Tabinda whose flyer won "best subversive literature." Her flyer was a great help down here and was *very eye catching (I had a few people come up and actually *ask for one down here in "oh god not another activist group" LA). Special thanks to David who drove 2 HOURS to get to Santa Monica and brought 1,200 (!) copies of various flyers (lots of Tabinda's). He was a *big part of things today. I, myself, seriously underestimated both the number of flyers we'd need and the number of people who'd show up to pass them out. And, to fearless leader himself, Hackhawk who may not have slept yet because he's been putting together the website, the mailing list, and got the ball rolling down here. Only to have his battery die on him and he couldn't make it to see things go so well. A good 20 (or so?) people showed up. And most stuck around for the second batch of flyers (I couldn't). I mean, they didn't want to leave. Had a couple of folks make a flyer run so they could keep on going. And in the "suprise guest star" category, Kevin Mitnick showed up to interview for the radio show he's doing for KFI 640. (I thought I somebody was putting me on when I asked who the guy was with the tape recorder) All in all, it went well. And we're looking forward to a good rally Monday. Mark From mark at blorch.org Sat Jul 28 21:32:29 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Name For San Francisco Group In-Reply-To: <87zo9o76ek.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> References: <87zo9o76ek.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <01072821322903.03571@bilbo.blorch.org> On Saturday 28 July 2001 20:36, Klepht wrote: > So, one of the things that has come up in recent days with the SF > crowd is what to call our group. > > Although we'd decided on "SPANK" at one point, Nick kind of put out a > couple of announcements on them with "Coalition to Free Dmitry." > > Under duress at various public buildings last week, I also used > "Coalition to Free Dmitry" on most of the legal papers. Partly because > of Nick's announces, and partly because I couldn't remember what > "SPANK" stood for. B-) > > So I think we're now the de facto "Coalition to Free Dmitry." If > anyone asks, which they seem to do. > > ~Klepht Hm. I was kinda hoping for something like "SoCal Geek Street Irregulars" for down here... Mark From klepht at eleutheria.org Sat Jul 28 21:41:41 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Name For San Francisco Group In-Reply-To: <01072821322903.03571@bilbo.blorch.org> References: <87zo9o76ek.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <01072821322903.03571@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <87y9p85ou2.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "MKB" == Mark K Bilbo writes: MKB> Hm. I was kinda hoping for something like "SoCal Geek Street MKB> Irregulars" for down here... Well, my original suggestion: http://www.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/2001-July/000004.html ...kind of fell on deaf ears. Most of the other stuff in there came true, though! Go figure. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From bobds at blorch.org Sat Jul 28 21:48:59 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] LOS ANGELES: leafletting update In-Reply-To: <01072821302302.03571@bilbo.blorch.org> References: <87k80s759g.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <01072821302302.03571@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <01072821485905.25820@bitworks> What Mark said. Plus, people were actually coming up and buttonholing ME for information about the case, about future activities like the rally this coming Monday, and so forth. Sometimes, if I neglected to offer someone a flyer, they'd actually walk over and ASK for one. And better yet, after we'd been there for an hour or so, I started to notice that people were actually standing around READING the things, not just carrying them or throwing them away at the first opportunity. Other people were seeing people reading something, and even the ones who just pitched it, or didn't accept one at all, still had a direct, personal brush with the issue. When they see something on the news now, or hear somebody at work mention Dmitry, it'll have a personal connection for them, however small, that it wouldn't have had if they hadn't seen us today. The message is starting to diffuse. Several people, when they saw what I had, said things like, "Oh, yeah...I've heard of this guy." Overall, I'd say today's exercise was highly encouraging. -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From mw at themail.com Sat Jul 28 21:47:30 2001 From: mw at themail.com (mw@themail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] One More Shirt Message-ID: <200107290046620.SM00201@mail.TheMail.com> ok, well, how's this for propaganda!? http://www.dmcasucks.org/toilet.html ****** Original Message ****** From: mike castleman Sent: Sun 07/29/2001 12:25 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] One More Shirt On Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 09:01:31PM -0700, Klepht wrote: > >> > >> The use of T-shirts as propaganda tools should not be downplayed. > > > >Of course t-shirts are useful propaganda tools. (Although, they are > >more useful for finding out that random people on the street are > >already part of your movement and letting them know that you are.) > > > >However, I'm complaining about the need to "collect 'em all" or > >something where owning the item has a greater importance to you than > >usefulness to the movement. This is getting way way off topic, so I > >promise to shut up now and not write any more messages to this thread. > > > >-- > >// mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu > >// current location: berkeley, ca, us > >// ph: +1 (646) 382-7220 > >// FREE DMITRY! See target="_new">http://freesklyarov.org/ > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > >Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) > >Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org > > > >iD8DBQE7Y4/grbXc6n5AevkRAuWoAJ9bK7WwmvqDhms9jhGrA+MIKBArlwCeNr8f > >E9nn7m2e+TXyMnGb+r4a0kM= > >=mDXK > >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > __________________________________________________________________ TheMail.com - Full featured premium email you can count on. Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ From mark at blorch.org Sat Jul 28 21:48:56 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Name For San Francisco Group In-Reply-To: <87y9p85ou2.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> References: <87zo9o76ek.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <01072821322903.03571@bilbo.blorch.org> <87y9p85ou2.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <01072821485600.10484@bilbo.blorch.org> On Saturday 28 July 2001 21:41, you wrote: > >>>>> "MKB" == Mark K Bilbo writes: > > MKB> Hm. I was kinda hoping for something like "SoCal Geek Street > MKB> Irregulars" for down here... > > Well, my original suggestion: > > http://www.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/2001-July/000004.html > > ...kind of fell on deaf ears. Most of the other stuff in there came > true, though! Go figure. > > ~Klepht And they missed the chance to have their own action figures! Mark From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Sat Jul 28 22:01:24 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:20 2005 Subject: [offtopic] Re: [free-sklyarov] Name For San Francisco Group In-Reply-To: <01072821485600.10484@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Jul 2001, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: > On Saturday 28 July 2001 21:41, you wrote: > > Well, my original suggestion: > > http://www.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/2001-July/000004.html > > ...kind of fell on deaf ears. Most of the other stuff in there came > > true, though! Go figure. > > And they missed the chance to have their own action figures! Here's an perfect action figure in the making: http://www.mycgiserver.com/~byoungvt/madman.jpg -- -alexf From cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu Sat Jul 28 22:25:52 2001 From: cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] freesklyarov.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Jul 2001, Kastlyn wrote: > I put up a local page for the Salt Lake City protests at > http://www.unixtribe.net/slc/ =} Though it's unclear at this point if we > will be participating in Monday's protest, I'll post updates there, and > I'm sure we'll have a leaf-letting, at the very least. =} freesklyarov.org has http://www.2600slc.org/dmitry/index.html as the "canonical" salt lake city site, with an august 3rd action planned. (and no monday action listed.) is this correct? --s (for freesklyarov.org) DNC Shoal Bay FBI Philadelphia security East Timor Sigint DES Rijndael Noriega SSBN 743 jihad interception President SEAL Team 6 RNC Nader ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian ) -- "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970, minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4. -- [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/] #!/usr/bin/perl -w # 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz # MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout # arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order $_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5; $_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d= unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d >>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9 ,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t ^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271)) [$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval From moomonk at daisy-chan.org Sat Jul 28 17:57:55 2001 From: moomonk at daisy-chan.org (Joshua Jore) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] My reply to the awful Seybold article on Dmitry In-Reply-To: <001c01c11792$1eb7a360$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Message-ID: My general impression of Indymedia is that it really helps if you've written the article and can just give it to them. It saves them time and makes it oh,so more likely to get posted. Josh On Sat, 28 Jul 2001, Richard M. Smith wrote: > FYI: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard M. Smith [mailto:rms@privacyfoundation.org] > Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 2:19 PM > To: pdyson@seyboldreports.com; pevans@seyboldreports.com; > mike@seyboldreports.com > Cc: Richard M. Smith > Subject: Re: ElcomSoft supporters miss the point > > Hello, > > I just finished reading the unsigned Seybold article "Elcomsoft > supporters miss the point" at Planet eBook. How depressing. I can't > believe intelligent people are out advocating throwing software authors > in jail for writing "dangerous" software that they don't approve of. The > last time I checked, the First Amendment has not been repealed. The > Adobe/Elcomsoft business dispute should be dealt as a civil issue, not > by throwing people in jail. > > This is actual an old story. Content suppliers and their supporters > have always attempted to demonize copying technology as "burglary tools" > and the private use of them as "theft". It's interesting to compare the > Seybold article to earlier articles about content providers vs. copying > technology makers. The rhetoric and the flawed analogies haven't seem > to change much in 20 years. Unfortunately, unlike earlier fights, a > person sits in jail without bail in this latest battle. > > Here's the sorry track record: > > Elcomsoft supporters miss the point > http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=196 > > "Put simply, the DMCA outlaws the creation of burglary > tools-which ElcomSoft makes-but it does not redefine fair > use for the digital domain." > > "A security company, noting that the locks on a Main Street > bookstore are relatively weak, decides to create a mechanism > that will pick the lock rather than alert the bookstore owner > or his distributors that the shop is susceptible to a break-in." > > The Copyright Grab > http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/4.01/white.paper_pr.html > > "Universal and Disney once sued Sony to stop distribution > of its videotape machines, arguing that private noncommercial > copying of their motion pictures by purchasers of Betamax > machines was no more excusable than the theft of a necklace > because the thief intended to wear it only at home for > noncommercial purposes." > > Is Copying CDs a Crime? > http://alternet.org/print.html?StoryID=9426 > > "No. While the courts consistently support the RIAA against > criminal activity, they also prevent the RIAA from branding > consumers who make copies as criminals." > > "In the late '80s and early '90s, the RIAA > threatened to send police into homes, arresting people in possession > of copied music and the new Sony DAT recorders. Congress passed > the Audio Home Recording Act to keep the RIAA out of our homes." > > Richard M. Smith > CTO, Privacy Foundation > http://www.privacyfoundation.org > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From moeller at scireview.de Sat Jul 28 23:02:31 2001 From: moeller at scireview.de (Erik Moeller) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:20 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Information About WIPO Wanted Message-ID: <3B63C317.32022.2E1C6F@localhost> Hi, apparently the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO), a UN agency with a ~250 million $ budget, is responsible, among other despicable things, for the DMCA, the EU copyright directive, the Canadian equivalent to the DMCA and all other laws concerning the circumvention of copy-protection. See the "WIPO Copyright Treaty adopted by the Diplomatic Conference on December 20, 1996": http://www.eff.org/Intellectual_property/WIPO/final_WIPO_treaty.html Particularly Article 11: Obligations concerning Technological Measures "Contracting Parties shall provide adequate legal protection and effective legal remedies against the circumvention of effective technological measures that are used by authors in connection with the exercise of their rights under this Treaty or the Berne Convention and that restrict acts, in respect of their works, which are not authorized by the authors concerned or permitted by law." Does anyone know more about how WIPO works? In particular: 1.) What happens if a member country doesn't satisfy the demands of a WIPO treaty? It seems to me that the policy-making process is a hidden one, and once the treaty has been signed, member nations have little choice but to turn it into law, particularly since WIPO cooperates with the WTO through the TRIPS agreement on intellectual property rights. 2.) How does the WIPO policy-making-process work? From jono at microshaft.org Sat Jul 28 23:22:09 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:22 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Information About WIPO Wanted In-Reply-To: <3B63C317.32022.2E1C6F@localhost>; from moeller@scireview.de on Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 08:02:31AM +0200 References: <3B63C317.32022.2E1C6F@localhost> Message-ID: <20010728232209.V33344@networkcommand.com> Chew on this: http://www.anti-dmca.org/faq.html And then (off indymedia.org): http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/jan2000albert.htm Also, remember Bush just snubbed the Germ Warfare treaty and the Koyoto treaty... Any ideas? On 29-Jul-2001, Erik Moeller wrote: > Hi, > > apparently the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO), a UN > agency with a ~250 million $ budget, is responsible, among other > despicable things, for the DMCA, the EU copyright directive, the > Canadian equivalent to the DMCA and all other laws concerning the > circumvention of copy-protection. See the "WIPO Copyright Treaty > adopted by the Diplomatic Conference on December 20, 1996": > > http://www.eff.org/Intellectual_property/WIPO/final_WIPO_treaty.html > > Particularly Article 11: > > Obligations concerning Technological Measures > > "Contracting Parties shall provide adequate legal protection and > effective legal remedies against the circumvention of effective > technological measures that are used by authors in connection > with the exercise of their rights under this Treaty or the Berne > Convention and that restrict acts, in respect of their works, which > are not authorized by the authors concerned or permitted > by law." > > Does anyone know more about how WIPO works? In particular: > > 1.) What happens if a member country doesn't satisfy the demands of a > WIPO treaty? > > It seems to me that the policy-making process is a hidden one, and > once the treaty has been signed, member nations have little choice > but to turn it into law, particularly since WIPO cooperates with the > WTO through the TRIPS agreement on intellectual property rights. > > 2.) How does the WIPO policy-making-process work? > > >From their organigram (http://www.wipo.int/about-wipo/en/pdf/org- > en.pdf) I only see that they have a "copyright office". In their > listing of principal officers, there appears to be nobody responsible > for the protection of consumer / fair use rights. > > 3.) How is the WIPO protected against lobbying? > > 4.) How is it democratically controlled? > > If anyone has more information on WIPO and related treaties, in > particular detailed criticisms and descriptions of its organization > and structure, please e-mail me or reply to the list if appropriate. > > Perhaps it's time for "DENOUNCE WIPO TREATIES" flyers and posters. > I'll try to compile as much information as I can. > > Regards, > Erik > > -- > Scientific Reviewer, Freelancer, Humanist -- Berlin/Germany > Phone: +49-30-45491008 - Web: > The Origins of Peace and Violence: > > "History is full of people who, out of fear or ignorance or the lust > for power, have destroyed treasures of immeasurable value which truly > belong to all of us. We must not let it happen again." -- Carl Sagan > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jono at microshaft.org Sat Jul 28 23:24:51 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Information About WIPO Wanted In-Reply-To: <3B63C317.32022.2E1C6F@localhost>; from moeller@scireview.de on Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 08:02:31AM +0200 References: <3B63C317.32022.2E1C6F@localhost> Message-ID: <20010728232451.W33344@networkcommand.com> Don't forget: TRIPS: AGREEMENT WTO-WIPO cooperation agreement http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/trips_e/wtowip_e.htm Agreement Between the World Intellectual Property Organization and the World Trade Organization Other nations are having these same laws applied to them! Not nation wide, world wide. heads up. On 29-Jul-2001, Erik Moeller wrote: > Hi, > > apparently the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO), a UN > agency with a ~250 million $ budget, is responsible, among other > despicable things, for the DMCA, the EU copyright directive, the > Canadian equivalent to the DMCA and all other laws concerning the > circumvention of copy-protection. See the "WIPO Copyright Treaty > adopted by the Diplomatic Conference on December 20, 1996": > > http://www.eff.org/Intellectual_property/WIPO/final_WIPO_treaty.html > > Particularly Article 11: > > Obligations concerning Technological Measures > > "Contracting Parties shall provide adequate legal protection and > effective legal remedies against the circumvention of effective > technological measures that are used by authors in connection > with the exercise of their rights under this Treaty or the Berne > Convention and that restrict acts, in respect of their works, which > are not authorized by the authors concerned or permitted > by law." > > Does anyone know more about how WIPO works? In particular: > > 1.) What happens if a member country doesn't satisfy the demands of a > WIPO treaty? > > It seems to me that the policy-making process is a hidden one, and > once the treaty has been signed, member nations have little choice > but to turn it into law, particularly since WIPO cooperates with the > WTO through the TRIPS agreement on intellectual property rights. > > 2.) How does the WIPO policy-making-process work? > > >From their organigram (http://www.wipo.int/about-wipo/en/pdf/org- > en.pdf) I only see that they have a "copyright office". In their > listing of principal officers, there appears to be nobody responsible > for the protection of consumer / fair use rights. > > 3.) How is the WIPO protected against lobbying? > > 4.) How is it democratically controlled? > > If anyone has more information on WIPO and related treaties, in > particular detailed criticisms and descriptions of its organization > and structure, please e-mail me or reply to the list if appropriate. > > Perhaps it's time for "DENOUNCE WIPO TREATIES" flyers and posters. > I'll try to compile as much information as I can. > > Regards, > Erik > > -- > Scientific Reviewer, Freelancer, Humanist -- Berlin/Germany > Phone: +49-30-45491008 - Web: > The Origins of Peace and Violence: > > "History is full of people who, out of fear or ignorance or the lust > for power, have destroyed treasures of immeasurable value which truly > belong to all of us. We must not let it happen again." -- Carl Sagan > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From dmarti at zgp.org Sat Jul 28 23:40:20 2001 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:24 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest chant In-Reply-To: <20010728040039.A6255@sethf.com> Message-ID: <20010728234020.D4247@zgp.org> begin Seth Finkelstein quotation of Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 04:00:39AM -0400: > "Hey, hey, D-M-C-A > how many rights did you take away?" Here's one from our DMCA protest last year (http://lwn.net/2000/features/DMCA/): Hey, hey, USA! Free speech not DMCA! From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Sun Jul 29 00:27:07 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DMCA Children's Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Jul 2001, James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov) wrote: > What if public libraries were outlawed? It might be good to point out that there is an ongoing effort to restrict libraries today. As I mentioned before, I tell laypeople about the DMCA by first telling them what it effectively does, something that matters to them, and then get into the technical guts later, e.g., "There's a new law on the books that criminalizes consumer product testing in certain situations involving computers. It does this by etc etc." I like your analogy to a public beach, and would suggest a similar analogy to the listener's own house. We are talking about a book that is mostly your own property, after all: what if someone put a gate around your own house and charged you admission to enter? And could actually have you arrested for breaking and entering, into your own property, if you find a way past? _Zat_ is ze DMCA! -S From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Jul 29 00:47:47 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Protest chant In-Reply-To: <20010728234020.D4247@zgp.org>; from dmarti@zgp.org on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 11:40:20PM -0700 References: <20010728040039.A6255@sethf.com> <20010728234020.D4247@zgp.org> Message-ID: <20010729004747.B6187@zork.net> Don Marti writes: > >From San Jose: > > What do we want? > FREE DMITRY! > When do we want it? > NOW! > > Hey, hey, ho, ho > DMCA has got to go! > Ho, ho, hey, hey, > Set Dmitry free today! Reading is a right, not a feature! The Russian version of "What do we want?" was posted here recently. -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe From dmarti at zgp.org Sun Jul 29 00:50:06 2001 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:26 2005 Subject: [mark@geekhive.net: Re: [free-sklyarov] Monday the 30th Plans] In-Reply-To: <20010728164050.A17981@geekhive.net> Message-ID: <20010729005006.E4247@zgp.org> begin Mark Jaroski quotation of Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 04:40:50PM -0700: > Are there any veterans on this list? When I saw that U.S. flag > in San Jose last monday I thought it was wonderful, and really > made the right point. Monday I get to find out if I can get the pole on Caltrain. (It's an extensible handle for a pruning saw, which makes a great portable flagpole. I attached one short piece of nylon rope at the top (where the saw would go) and another piece of nylon rope is tied to a heavy-duty cable tie attached further down. I brought the flag separately (ironed and folded the Right Way http://www.icss.com/usflag/fold.flag.html) then got someone to hold the other end while I tied it to the pole. The flag did get a lot of attention from passers-by, but it is a powerful symbol that has to be used the right way to be effective. 1. If your event has flags of both the US and Russia, display them at the same height. That's where the pruning saw handle as flagpole comes in handy. (I don't know the right folding pattern for the Russian flag.) 2. Don't let the flag of any country touch the ground. Of course you can rest the bottom of the pole on the ground if it doesn't result in the flag being lower than another country's. 3. When you're done for the day, take the flag off the pole and fold it so it doesn't get messed up. -- Don Marti What do we want? Free Dmitry! When do we want it? Now! http://zgp.org/~dmarti Free Dmitry: http://eff.org/ dmarti@zgp.org Free the web, burn all GIFs: http://burnallgifs.org/ From pedro at tastytronic.net Sun Jul 29 03:40:09 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Monday Protests Downtown! Message-ID: <20010729054009.D12267@tastytronic.net> There will be another protest downtown this Monday, the 30th, at the federal building in the Loop from 11AM to 1PM. Please bring a sign to hold and sign on to the sklyarov-chicago list at: http://ufo.chicago.il.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sklyarov-chicago/ PLEASE also read (if you haven't) the Chicago protest packet which includes our instructions and protocol. It's at: http://ufo.chicago.il.us/free-sklyarov/ Also, we are focusing on "Free Dmitry" and not on the DMCA for the sake of not looking like we're trying to use Dmitry as a poster-boy. We will, hoever, talk about how bad the DMCA is to anyone who will listen. Any questions or comments can be directed to me at pedro@tastytronic.net. Free Dmitry, pedro -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- FBI has imprisioned a Russian software engineer for promoting and teaching the concept of "fair use". Read more: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From pmasloch at earthlink.net Sun Jul 29 03:52:24 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] My own DMCA song In-Reply-To: <20010728184116.B1181@zork.net> Message-ID: Be careful, the FBI could knock on your door now and arrest you because of violations of the DMCA (or MPAA)...... Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org (with apologies not only to the Village People but also to the other three people who have independently written parodies of "DMCA") Young man, what has your research found? I said Young man, are you breakin' new ground? I said Young man, now you oughtta feel proud, but THIS BOOK CAN NOT BE READ ALOUD! Young man, there's a law on the books, I said young man, it says readers are crooks, I said young man, you should take a good look: Title Seventeen, Chapter Twelve. It's paracopyright, DMCA Eroding readers' rights, DMCA. They have modified our old copyright laws to make the AAP the boss... It's paracopyright, DMCA Eroding readers' rights, DMCA. You can't tape off the air; how does that make you feel? You can't lend books to friends, under this eBook deal: 1201(a) is now for Real. Young man, are you listening to me? I said Young man, you say 1201(g) has ex- emptions for your research? But you got to know this one thing! Industry still calls the shots. I said young man, if you speak of your thoughts, and you go there, then the DMCA will let Ashcroft put you away. It's paracopyright, DMCA Eroding readers' rights, DMCA. They have modified our old copyright laws to make the AAP the boss... It's paracopyright, DMCA Eroding readers' rights, DMCA. You can't shift your formats, 'cause they said you would steal, 1201(a) is now for Real! Young man, they want us to confuse making copies with just trying to use software to let blind folks peruse digital books locked up tight! That's why someone has to stand up, and say listen, reading's a human right; there's a bad law called the DMCA -- Free Mr. Sklyarov today! It's paracopyright, DMCA Eroding readers' rights, DMCA. They have modified our old copyright laws to make the AAP the boss... DMCA, squashing speech, it's the DMCA... Young men, young men, there's no need to jail them. Young men, young men, work for this bad law's end! DMCA, kills fair use, it's the DMCA... Young men, young men, there's no need to jail them. Young men, young men, work for this bad law's end! DMCA, just reject the DMCA... Young man, young man, are you listening to me? Young man, young man, don't trust 1201(g)! -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From pmasloch at earthlink.net Sun Jul 29 03:55:51 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? In-Reply-To: <87puaka3m4.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: But the problem is that the DoJ wants to set an example with this case just to proof that this law is 'right'. So, they will do everything they can to proscecute Dmitry. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Klepht Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 10:09 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? So, one thing to think about, when considering this case, is that it's quite possible that by the letter of the law, Dmitry did something illegal. That is why we think this law is _wrong_. We don't want this law enforced, and if we can get it repealed, we want it repealed. Laws are not written in stone*. They are proposed, they are amended, they are subtly changed and nuanced by precedence in the courts. They can be repealed, overturned, obsoleted or merely forgotten. Saying "what Dmitry did was not illegal" goes down a big rathole that very few people around here are going to be able to argue about well. Saying, "Dmitry's work was in a legal tradition of academic freedom, freedom of expression, and fair use," seems to me to be more accurate and less in dispute. Personally, I'd like to see the DMCA overturned or repealed. But I'd also be happy one day to be reading the trivia section of a newspaper that says, "In the USA, it's technically illegal to write certain kinds of code or talk about certain kinds of security." And getting a good chuckle out of it, because it's just one of those ridiculous old laws that don't matter any more, but somehow never got struck from the books. By getting Adobe to drop its complaint, and getting the US Attorney to drop the charges, we can raise the bar on enforcement of the unfair and unjust DMCA. If we do this, we move it one step closer to the dustbin of legal history. So let's. ~Klepht * Or, rather, they haven't been for a couple thousand years, except decoratively. -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jono at microshaft.org Sun Jul 29 03:57:40 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Slashdot: DMCA Worldwide: Canada, New Zealand, USA Message-ID: <20010729035740.Q33344@networkcommand.com> Slashdot finally figured it out: http://slashdot.org/yro/01/07/28/1658234.shtml WTO + WIPO = DMCA. No questions. http://us.anti-dmca.org/faq.html Read it! From mickeym at mindspring.com Sun Jul 29 05:44:08 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (mickeym) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Information About WIPO Wanted References: <3B63C317.32022.2E1C6F@localhost> <20010728232451.W33344@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <3B640517.ED75EA50@mindspring.com> As stated in that document, the first order of business is to make sure that access is free upon request, copies are free upon request, no usage restrictions are placed, and translation can be done without penalty. That's a serious double-standard.....mickeym "The WTO Secretariat shall have access, free of any charge by WIPO, to any such database." "the International Bureau shall, on request of the WTO Secretariat, give, free of charge, a copy of the said law, regulation or translation to the WTO Secretariat." "The International Bureau shall not put any restriction on the use that the WTO Secretariat may make of the copies of laws, regulations and translations" "The WTO Secretariat shall transmit to the International Bureau, free of charge, a copy of the laws and regulations received by the WTO Secretariat from WTO Members" "The WTO Secretariat shall not put any restriction on the further use that the International Bureau may make of the copies of the laws and regulations transmitted" "The International Bureau shall make available to developing country WTO Members which are not Member States of WIPO the same assistance for translation of laws and regulations" "Jon O ." wrote: > Don't forget: > > TRIPS: AGREEMENT > WTO-WIPO cooperation agreement > http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/trips_e/wtowip_e.htm > > Agreement Between the World Intellectual > Property Organization and the World Trade > Organization > > Other nations are having these same laws applied to them! > > Not nation wide, world wide. heads up. > > On 29-Jul-2001, Erik Moeller wrote: > > Hi, > > > > apparently the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO), a UN > > agency with a ~250 million $ budget, is responsible, among other > > despicable things, for the DMCA, the EU copyright directive, the > > Canadian equivalent to the DMCA and all other laws concerning the > > circumvention of copy-protection. See the "WIPO Copyright Treaty > > adopted by the Diplomatic Conference on December 20, 1996": > > > > http://www.eff.org/Intellectual_property/WIPO/final_WIPO_treaty.html > > > > Particularly Article 11: > > > > Obligations concerning Technological Measures > > > > "Contracting Parties shall provide adequate legal protection and > > effective legal remedies against the circumvention of effective > > technological measures that are used by authors in connection > > with the exercise of their rights under this Treaty or the Berne > > Convention and that restrict acts, in respect of their works, which > > are not authorized by the authors concerned or permitted > > by law." > > > > Does anyone know more about how WIPO works? In particular: > > > > 1.) What happens if a member country doesn't satisfy the demands of a > > WIPO treaty? > > > > It seems to me that the policy-making process is a hidden one, and > > once the treaty has been signed, member nations have little choice > > but to turn it into law, particularly since WIPO cooperates with the > > WTO through the TRIPS agreement on intellectual property rights. > > > > 2.) How does the WIPO policy-making-process work? > > > > >From their organigram (http://www.wipo.int/about-wipo/en/pdf/org- > > en.pdf) I only see that they have a "copyright office". In their > > listing of principal officers, there appears to be nobody responsible > > for the protection of consumer / fair use rights. > > > > 3.) How is the WIPO protected against lobbying? > > > > 4.) How is it democratically controlled? > > > > If anyone has more information on WIPO and related treaties, in > > particular detailed criticisms and descriptions of its organization > > and structure, please e-mail me or reply to the list if appropriate. > > > > Perhaps it's time for "DENOUNCE WIPO TREATIES" flyers and posters. > > I'll try to compile as much information as I can. > > > > Regards, > > Erik > > > > -- > > Scientific Reviewer, Freelancer, Humanist -- Berlin/Germany > > Phone: +49-30-45491008 - Web: > > The Origins of Peace and Violence: > > > > "History is full of people who, out of fear or ignorance or the lust > > for power, have destroyed treasures of immeasurable value which truly > > belong to all of us. We must not let it happen again." -- Carl Sagan > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From declan at well.com Sun Jul 29 06:56:45 2001 From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Support for the Association of American Publishers Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010729095611.026a4e00@mail.well.com> >Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 09:55:45 -0400 >To: John Zenger >From: Declan McCullagh >Subject: Re: Support for the Association of American Publishers >Cc: amyg@publishers.org, ausage@smoke-and-mirrors.net, simons@acm.org, >pfir@vortex.com, lauren@pfir.org, neumann@pfir.org > >Seems like a troll to me. > >* What authentic coalition does not list its members? >* What authentic press release does not give telephone contacts? >* What authentic coalition does not show up in a Google search? >* What authentic press release would call Adobe an "electronic publishing >company," when they're primarily a software vendor? > >Perhaps the position this "coalition" is internally consistent -- I'd >grant that -- but this particular effort seems as real as some of >Microsoft's astroturf efforts. > >-Declan > > >At 05:09 AM 7/29/01 -0700, John Zenger wrote: >>Press Release >>For Immediate Release >> >>Decency Coalition for Media in America supports >>Association of American Publishers in Sklyarov Piracy >>Case. >> >>Washington, DC. The Decency Coalition for Media in >>America (DCM America) today announced its strong >>support for the prosecution of Dmitry Sklyarov for >>piracy of intellectual media. Sklyarov developed and >>illegally disseminated methods for pirating electronic >>books published by Adobe, a well-known electronic >>publishing company. >> >>"The ownership of property, particularly intellectual >>property, is the foundation of American liberty." said >>John Zenger, the Coalition's founder and Executive >>Director. "To deprive a creator of intellectual >>property of the benefits of their creativity is to >>strike at the economic root of that creativity and to >>insure the certainty of its destruction." Zenger >>added. "The Coalition defends the rights of authors >>and publishers, indeed of all owners and creators of >>intellectual property, to derive the benefits of their >>property and strongly deplores the efforts of those >>who would seek to deny or diminish those benefits. >>Without the right to control the dissemination of >>their works, owners and creators of intellectual >>property, or information of any kind, will lose their >>incentive for creativity. That would be a crushing >>blow to the American economy." >> >>----- >> >>The Decency Coalition for Media in America is >>dedicated to promoting the security of ownership and >>the responsibility for content of intellectual >>property in America. The coalition believes that >>responsible publication by reputable publishers is the >>foundation of American liberty and that neither >>responsibility nor reputation can be assured without >>insuring the rights of authors and publishers to their >>intellectual property. The Coalition welcomes comments >>to its discussion group at >> >>http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/dcmamerica. >> >>All submissions become the property of the Coalition. >> >>__________________________________________________ >>Do You Yahoo!? >>Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger >>http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From pmasloch at earthlink.net Sun Jul 29 07:15:22 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Support for the Association of American Publishers In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010729095611.026a4e00@mail.well.com> Message-ID: more like an uber-major-troll. I tryed a couple searchengines and didn't find anything. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org >Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 09:55:45 -0400 >To: John Zenger >From: Declan McCullagh >Subject: Re: Support for the Association of American Publishers >Cc: amyg@publishers.org, ausage@smoke-and-mirrors.net, simons@acm.org, >pfir@vortex.com, lauren@pfir.org, neumann@pfir.org > >Seems like a troll to me. > >* What authentic coalition does not list its members? >* What authentic press release does not give telephone contacts? >* What authentic coalition does not show up in a Google search? >* What authentic press release would call Adobe an "electronic publishing >company," when they're primarily a software vendor? > >Perhaps the position this "coalition" is internally consistent -- I'd >grant that -- but this particular effort seems as real as some of >Microsoft's astroturf efforts. > >-Declan > > >At 05:09 AM 7/29/01 -0700, John Zenger wrote: >>Press Release >>For Immediate Release >> >>Decency Coalition for Media in America supports >>Association of American Publishers in Sklyarov Piracy >>Case. >> >>Washington, DC. The Decency Coalition for Media in >>America (DCM America) today announced its strong >>support for the prosecution of Dmitry Sklyarov for >>piracy of intellectual media. Sklyarov developed and >>illegally disseminated methods for pirating electronic >>books published by Adobe, a well-known electronic >>publishing company. >> >>"The ownership of property, particularly intellectual >>property, is the foundation of American liberty." said >>John Zenger, the Coalition's founder and Executive >>Director. "To deprive a creator of intellectual >>property of the benefits of their creativity is to >>strike at the economic root of that creativity and to >>insure the certainty of its destruction." Zenger >>added. "The Coalition defends the rights of authors >>and publishers, indeed of all owners and creators of >>intellectual property, to derive the benefits of their >>property and strongly deplores the efforts of those >>who would seek to deny or diminish those benefits. >>Without the right to control the dissemination of >>their works, owners and creators of intellectual >>property, or information of any kind, will lose their >>incentive for creativity. That would be a crushing >>blow to the American economy." >> >>----- >> >>The Decency Coalition for Media in America is >>dedicated to promoting the security of ownership and >>the responsibility for content of intellectual >>property in America. The coalition believes that >>responsible publication by reputable publishers is the >>foundation of American liberty and that neither >>responsibility nor reputation can be assured without >>insuring the rights of authors and publishers to their >>intellectual property. The Coalition welcomes comments >>to its discussion group at >> >>http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/dcmamerica. >> >>All submissions become the property of the Coalition. >> >>__________________________________________________ >>Do You Yahoo!? >>Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger >>http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From mickeym at mindspring.com Sun Jul 29 07:25:07 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (mickeym) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Support for the Association of American Publishers References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010729095611.026a4e00@mail.well.com> Message-ID: <3B641CC2.F0944F8F@mindspring.com> There you have it: "by reputable publishers" Otherwise known as "speaker-based" restriction. The protections advocated by this "coalition" don't apply to all, such as Elcomsoft, Felton, Goldstein, Pavlovich, and so on. mickeym Declan McCullagh wrote: > >Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 09:55:45 -0400 > >To: John Zenger > >From: Declan McCullagh > >Subject: Re: Support for the Association of American Publishers > >Cc: amyg@publishers.org, ausage@smoke-and-mirrors.net, simons@acm.org, > >pfir@vortex.com, lauren@pfir.org, neumann@pfir.org > > > >Seems like a troll to me. > > > >* What authentic coalition does not list its members? > >* What authentic press release does not give telephone contacts? > >* What authentic coalition does not show up in a Google search? > >* What authentic press release would call Adobe an "electronic publishing > >company," when they're primarily a software vendor? > > > >Perhaps the position this "coalition" is internally consistent -- I'd > >grant that -- but this particular effort seems as real as some of > >Microsoft's astroturf efforts. > > > >-Declan > > > > > >At 05:09 AM 7/29/01 -0700, John Zenger wrote: > >>Press Release > >>For Immediate Release > >> > >>Decency Coalition for Media in America supports > >>Association of American Publishers in Sklyarov Piracy > >>Case. > >> > >>Washington, DC. The Decency Coalition for Media in > >>America (DCM America) today announced its strong > >>support for the prosecution of Dmitry Sklyarov for > >>piracy of intellectual media. Sklyarov developed and > >>illegally disseminated methods for pirating electronic > >>books published by Adobe, a well-known electronic > >>publishing company. > >> > >>"The ownership of property, particularly intellectual > >>property, is the foundation of American liberty." said > >>John Zenger, the Coalition's founder and Executive > >>Director. "To deprive a creator of intellectual > >>property of the benefits of their creativity is to > >>strike at the economic root of that creativity and to > >>insure the certainty of its destruction." Zenger > >>added. "The Coalition defends the rights of authors > >>and publishers, indeed of all owners and creators of > >>intellectual property, to derive the benefits of their > >>property and strongly deplores the efforts of those > >>who would seek to deny or diminish those benefits. > >>Without the right to control the dissemination of > >>their works, owners and creators of intellectual > >>property, or information of any kind, will lose their > >>incentive for creativity. That would be a crushing > >>blow to the American economy." > >> > >>----- > >> > >>The Decency Coalition for Media in America is > >>dedicated to promoting the security of ownership and > >>the responsibility for content of intellectual > >>property in America. The coalition believes that > >>responsible publication by reputable publishers is the > >>foundation of American liberty and that neither > >>responsibility nor reputation can be assured without > >>insuring the rights of authors and publishers to their > >>intellectual property. The Coalition welcomes comments > >>to its discussion group at > >> > >>http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/dcmamerica. > >> > >>All submissions become the property of the Coalition. > >> > >>__________________________________________________ > >>Do You Yahoo!? > >>Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > >>http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From rostrom at houston.rr.com Sun Jul 29 08:11:52 2001 From: rostrom at houston.rr.com (Ricky Ostrom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:26 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Breaking the Law? Message-ID: <001301c11840$cc956180$0100a8c0@houston.rr.com> If Adobe bought and holds a couple copies of this software. Aren't they breaking the law too? Is anyone who writes a new ZIP program breaking the law? Ricky From alphageek at mediaone.net Sun Jul 29 08:33:20 2001 From: alphageek at mediaone.net (Alphageek) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Support for the Association of American Publishers In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010729095611.026a4e00@mail.well.com> Message-ID: I wonder how many people they are paying to fill up their message board? Perhaps somebody could selects a few hundred or so of the "best of" Free Sklyarov and make sure the consolidated wit and wisdom of this list is availble for this new imaginary "astroturf" group to read on their message board? Never hurts to get the message out, and they appear to have opened a forum in which anyone may participate. Alternatively, we could just have every FREE SKLYAROV member post just ONE message, explaining in simple and civil terms exactly what is wrong with the arest and the DMCA. Either way, it could be a fun exercise. ECG ]> -----Original Message----- ]> From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net ]> [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Declan McCullagh ]> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 9:57 AM ]> To: free-sklyarov@zork.net ]> Cc: dcm_america@yahoo.com ]> Subject: [free-sklyarov] Support for the Association of American ]> Publishers ]> ]> ]> ]> >Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 09:55:45 -0400 ]> >To: John Zenger ]> >From: Declan McCullagh ]> >Subject: Re: Support for the Association of American Publishers ]> >Cc: amyg@publishers.org, ausage@smoke-and-mirrors.net, simons@acm.org, ]> >pfir@vortex.com, lauren@pfir.org, neumann@pfir.org ]> > ]> >Seems like a troll to me. ]> > ]> >* What authentic coalition does not list its members? ]> >* What authentic press release does not give telephone contacts? ]> >* What authentic coalition does not show up in a Google search? ]> >* What authentic press release would call Adobe an "electronic ]> publishing ]> >company," when they're primarily a software vendor? ]> > ]> >Perhaps the position this "coalition" is internally consistent -- I'd ]> >grant that -- but this particular effort seems as real as some of ]> >Microsoft's astroturf efforts. ]> > ]> >-Declan ]> > ]> > ]> >At 05:09 AM 7/29/01 -0700, John Zenger wrote: ]> >>Press Release ]> >>For Immediate Release ]> >> ]> >>Decency Coalition for Media in America supports ]> >>Association of American Publishers in Sklyarov Piracy ]> >>Case. ]> >> ]> >>Washington, DC. The Decency Coalition for Media in ]> >>America (DCM America) today announced its strong ]> >>support for the prosecution of Dmitry Sklyarov for ]> >>piracy of intellectual media. Sklyarov developed and ]> >>illegally disseminated methods for pirating electronic ]> >>books published by Adobe, a well-known electronic ]> >>publishing company. ]> >> ]> >>"The ownership of property, particularly intellectual ]> >>property, is the foundation of American liberty." said ]> >>John Zenger, the Coalition's founder and Executive ]> >>Director. "To deprive a creator of intellectual ]> >>property of the benefits of their creativity is to ]> >>strike at the economic root of that creativity and to ]> >>insure the certainty of its destruction." Zenger ]> >>added. "The Coalition defends the rights of authors ]> >>and publishers, indeed of all owners and creators of ]> >>intellectual property, to derive the benefits of their ]> >>property and strongly deplores the efforts of those ]> >>who would seek to deny or diminish those benefits. ]> >>Without the right to control the dissemination of ]> >>their works, owners and creators of intellectual ]> >>property, or information of any kind, will lose their ]> >>incentive for creativity. That would be a crushing ]> >>blow to the American economy." ]> >> ]> >>----- ]> >> ]> >>The Decency Coalition for Media in America is ]> >>dedicated to promoting the security of ownership and ]> >>the responsibility for content of intellectual ]> >>property in America. The coalition believes that ]> >>responsible publication by reputable publishers is the ]> >>foundation of American liberty and that neither ]> >>responsibility nor reputation can be assured without ]> >>insuring the rights of authors and publishers to their ]> >>intellectual property. The Coalition welcomes comments ]> >>to its discussion group at ]> >> ]> >>http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/dcmamerica. ]> >> ]> >>All submissions become the property of the Coalition. ]> >> ]> >>__________________________________________________ ]> >>Do You Yahoo!? ]> >>Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! ]> Messenger ]> >>http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ]> ]> ]> _______________________________________________ ]> free-sklyarov mailing list ]> free-sklyarov@zork.net ]> http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From admin at seattle-chat.com Sun Jul 29 08:35:33 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Support for the Association of American Publishers In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010729095611.026a4e00@mail.well.com> Message-ID: Haha, this is pretty damn funny, they using a yahoo club, probibly a member of AAP that opened the club, if they were for real, it would be on the club, and since it's on Yahoo, wouldn't yahoo own the messages on this club? -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Declan McCullagh Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 6:57 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Cc: dcm_america@yahoo.com Subject: [free-sklyarov] Support for the Association of American Publishers >Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 09:55:45 -0400 >To: John Zenger >From: Declan McCullagh >Subject: Re: Support for the Association of American Publishers >Cc: amyg@publishers.org, ausage@smoke-and-mirrors.net, simons@acm.org, >pfir@vortex.com, lauren@pfir.org, neumann@pfir.org > >Seems like a troll to me. > >* What authentic coalition does not list its members? >* What authentic press release does not give telephone contacts? >* What authentic coalition does not show up in a Google search? >* What authentic press release would call Adobe an "electronic publishing >company," when they're primarily a software vendor? > >Perhaps the position this "coalition" is internally consistent -- I'd >grant that -- but this particular effort seems as real as some of >Microsoft's astroturf efforts. > >-Declan > > >At 05:09 AM 7/29/01 -0700, John Zenger wrote: >>Press Release >>For Immediate Release >> >>Decency Coalition for Media in America supports >>Association of American Publishers in Sklyarov Piracy >>Case. >> >>Washington, DC. The Decency Coalition for Media in >>America (DCM America) today announced its strong >>support for the prosecution of Dmitry Sklyarov for >>piracy of intellectual media. Sklyarov developed and >>illegally disseminated methods for pirating electronic >>books published by Adobe, a well-known electronic >>publishing company. >> >>"The ownership of property, particularly intellectual >>property, is the foundation of American liberty." said >>John Zenger, the Coalition's founder and Executive >>Director. "To deprive a creator of intellectual >>property of the benefits of their creativity is to >>strike at the economic root of that creativity and to >>insure the certainty of its destruction." Zenger >>added. "The Coalition defends the rights of authors >>and publishers, indeed of all owners and creators of >>intellectual property, to derive the benefits of their >>property and strongly deplores the efforts of those >>who would seek to deny or diminish those benefits. >>Without the right to control the dissemination of >>their works, owners and creators of intellectual >>property, or information of any kind, will lose their >>incentive for creativity. That would be a crushing >>blow to the American economy." >> >>----- >> >>The Decency Coalition for Media in America is >>dedicated to promoting the security of ownership and >>the responsibility for content of intellectual >>property in America. The coalition believes that >>responsible publication by reputable publishers is the >>foundation of American liberty and that neither >>responsibility nor reputation can be assured without >>insuring the rights of authors and publishers to their >>intellectual property. The Coalition welcomes comments >>to its discussion group at >> >>http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/dcmamerica. >> >>All submissions become the property of the Coalition. >> >>__________________________________________________ >>Do You Yahoo!? >>Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger >>http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From kfoss at planetpdf.com Sun Jul 29 08:49:03 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Support for the Association of American Publishers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 11:33 AM -0400 7/29/01, Alphageek wrote: >they appear to have opened a forum >in which anyone may participate. Yup, and it won't take long to get the message to all of their "members" ... --- http://mlist.clubs.yahoo.com/config/member_list?.groupID=dcmamerica&.intl=us Members Listing all founders and members 1 - 1 of 1. --- rgds ~ Kurt -- ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network From Cat at spamdetector.com Sun Jul 29 08:53:04 2001 From: Cat at spamdetector.com (Cat@spamdetector.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Oklahoma? Message-ID: <3663907.996421984598.JavaMail.root@smtp.backend.another.com> Sorry if this has already been answered, but according to the FreeSklyarov site, Dmitry has been moved to Oklahoma. Why? I thought he was being transferred to San Jose. Last I checked, Oklahoma is not on the way from Las Vegas to California. ----- 20 email addresses from 15,000 domain names - free at http://www.another.com From cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu Sun Jul 29 08:57:39 2001 From: cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] protestmonday.org Message-ID: For what it's worth, http://protestmonday.org (also .com and .net) is up as a redirect to freesklyarov.org. Anyone still doing flyers who wants to put an 'easier to spell' URL on it is welcome to use this. It's not a perfect domain name, but it works. Do with it as you will. --s UKUSA strategic non-violent protest Castro direct action Kennedy MI6 Marxist interception Philadelphia fissionable RUCKUS justice atomic ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian ) -- "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970, minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4. -- [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/] #!/usr/bin/perl -w # 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz # MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout # arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order $_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5; $_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d= unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d >>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9 ,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t ^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271)) [$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval From jaed at jaedworks.com Sun Jul 29 09:02:48 2001 From: jaed at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:27 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Oklahoma? In-Reply-To: <3663907.996421984598.JavaMail.root@smtp.backend.another.com> Message-ID: At 8:53 AM -0700 7/29/2001, Cat@spamdetector.com wrote: >Sorry if this has already been answered, but according to the FreeSklyarov >site, Dmitry has been moved to Oklahoma. Why? I thought he was being >transferred to San Jose. Last I checked, Oklahoma is not on the way from >Las Vegas to California. Federal prisoner movements are done using a "hub and spoke" system. When someone is moved, they're moved first to a hub (Oklahoma in this case) before being moved to the final destination. -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed@jaedworks.com http://www.jaedworks.com What does not kill us makes us stranger. From mark at blorch.org Sun Jul 29 09:11:58 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Support for the Association of American Publishers In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010729095611.026a4e00@mail.well.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010729095611.026a4e00@mail.well.com> Message-ID: <01072909115801.10484@bilbo.blorch.org> Uh... isn't a "coalition" usually more than one person? Mark On Sunday 29 July 2001 06:56, Declan McCullagh wrote: > >Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 09:55:45 -0400 > >To: John Zenger > > From: Declan McCullagh > > >Subject: Re: Support for the Association of American Publishers > >Cc: amyg@publishers.org, ausage@smoke-and-mirrors.net, simons@acm.org, > >pfir@vortex.com, lauren@pfir.org, neumann@pfir.org > > > >Seems like a troll to me. > > > >* What authentic coalition does not list its members? > >* What authentic press release does not give telephone contacts? > >* What authentic coalition does not show up in a Google search? > >* What authentic press release would call Adobe an "electronic publishing > >company," when they're primarily a software vendor? > > > >Perhaps the position this "coalition" is internally consistent -- I'd > >grant that -- but this particular effort seems as real as some of > >Microsoft's astroturf efforts. > > > >-Declan > > > >At 05:09 AM 7/29/01 -0700, John Zenger wrote: > >>Press Release > >>For Immediate Release > >> > >>Decency Coalition for Media in America supports > >>Association of American Publishers in Sklyarov Piracy > >>Case. > >> > >>Washington, DC. The Decency Coalition for Media in > >>America (DCM America) today announced its strong > >>support for the prosecution of Dmitry Sklyarov for > >>piracy of intellectual media. Sklyarov developed and > >>illegally disseminated methods for pirating electronic > >>books published by Adobe, a well-known electronic > >>publishing company. > >> > >>"The ownership of property, particularly intellectual > >>property, is the foundation of American liberty." said > >>John Zenger, the Coalition's founder and Executive > >>Director. "To deprive a creator of intellectual > >>property of the benefits of their creativity is to > >>strike at the economic root of that creativity and to > >>insure the certainty of its destruction." Zenger > >>added. "The Coalition defends the rights of authors > >>and publishers, indeed of all owners and creators of > >>intellectual property, to derive the benefits of their > >>property and strongly deplores the efforts of those > >>who would seek to deny or diminish those benefits. > >>Without the right to control the dissemination of > >>their works, owners and creators of intellectual > >>property, or information of any kind, will lose their > >>incentive for creativity. That would be a crushing > >>blow to the American economy." > >> > >>----- > >> > >>The Decency Coalition for Media in America is > >>dedicated to promoting the security of ownership and > >>the responsibility for content of intellectual > >>property in America. The coalition believes that > >>responsible publication by reputable publishers is the > >>foundation of American liberty and that neither > >>responsibility nor reputation can be assured without > >>insuring the rights of authors and publishers to their > >>intellectual property. The Coalition welcomes comments > >>to its discussion group at > >> > >>http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/dcmamerica. > >> > >>All submissions become the property of the Coalition. > >> > >>__________________________________________________ > >>Do You Yahoo!? > >>Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > >>http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From alphageek at mediaone.net Sun Jul 29 09:27:12 2001 From: alphageek at mediaone.net (Alphageek) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Support for the Association of American Publishers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I suppose that an organization like "Media Consumers for Digital Censorship" or the "Music Fans' Digital Industry Enrichment Coalition" would have similar success at "grassroots" organizing and recruitment. I'm sorry, maybe I'm in a mean mood today, but I see great entertainment value in lampooning this so-called "Decency Coalition for Media in America" mercilessly. BTW, on the "property" issue, what happens if you post a message saying "This message remains MY property and I'm just using the public forum you opened. I confer upon you no rights other than the right to leave it on the message boards unedited. You may not copy this message without permission. Any attempt by you to use a circumvention device to make unauthorized copies of this message is a federal crime and shall be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law?" ECG Kurt Foss: ]> ]> At 11:33 AM -0400 7/29/01, Alphageek wrote: ]> >they appear to have opened a forum ]> >in which anyone may participate. ]> ]> Yup, and it won't take long to get the message to all of their ]> "members" ... ]> ]> --- ]> http://mlist.clubs.yahoo.com/config/member_list?.groupID=dcmameri ]> ca&.intl=us ]> ]> Members ]> Listing all founders and members 1 - 1 of 1. From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sun Jul 29 09:40:13 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Modifying DMCA & WIPO In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Two questions: (1) What are the minimum modifications to DMCA that would "do the job"? Do we need to repeal the whole thing? Or would a carefully crafted phrase or a small additional section do the job? (2) Would such a modification still permit us to claim compliance with the WIPO requirements? James S. Huggins From mickeym at mindspring.com Sun Jul 29 09:51:14 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (mickeym) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Modifying DMCA & WIPO References: Message-ID: <3B643F01.30C1E1CE@mindspring.com> 1) Prohibit circumvention conduct only when part of an actual act of copyright infringment. 2) yes mickey "James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)" wrote: > Two questions: > > (1) What are the minimum modifications to DMCA that would "do the job"? Do > we need to repeal the whole thing? Or would a carefully crafted phrase or a > small additional section do the job? > > (2) Would such a modification still permit us to claim compliance with the > WIPO requirements? > > James S. Huggins > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From mark at blorch.org Sun Jul 29 09:58:32 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Support for the Association of American Publishers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072909583202.10484@bilbo.blorch.org> On Sunday 29 July 2001 09:27, Alphageek wrote: > I suppose that an organization like "Media Consumers for Digital > Censorship" or the "Music Fans' Digital Industry Enrichment Coalition" > would have similar success at "grassroots" organizing and recruitment. > > I'm sorry, maybe I'm in a mean mood today, but I see great entertainment > value in lampooning this so-called "Decency Coalition for Media in America" > mercilessly. > > BTW, on the "property" issue, what happens if you post a message saying > "This message remains MY property and I'm just using the public forum you > opened. I confer upon you no rights other than the right to leave it on > the message boards unedited. You may not copy this message without > permission. Any attempt by you to use a circumvention device to make > unauthorized copies of this message > is a federal crime and shall be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the > law?" > What doofus "I'm a coalition" doesn't seem to realize is that according to actual copyright *law, you retain the rights to your messages. Maybe he could argue he has compilation rights but the courts just recently ruled that authors still have rights when digital compilations are made of their works. He might have *some rights of your posts but can't claim *all rights. Anyway, what kind of "supporter" of copyright and content producers demands "all rights" without compensation? Mark From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sun Jul 29 10:04:39 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FW: This Week's Clue: The False Choice Between Tyranny and Anarchy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The following is excerpted from the email of A-Clue.com -----Original Message----- From: dana@a-clue.com Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 11:59 AM Subject: This Week's Clue: The False Choice Between Tyranny and Anarchy A-Clue.Com by Dana Blankenhorn Volume V, No. XXX For July 30, 2001 This Week's Clue: The False Choice of Tyranny or Anarchy I spent most of last week editing an important chapter of my book "Living on the Internet," this one covering issues like the Copyright Wars. When I finished and picked up my online newspapers, I realized I'd have to go through the whole exercise again - reality had caught up with me. I closed the draft chapter with a prediction that real people are about to get really hurt by the Copyright Wars. Then on July 17 someone was. Dimitri Skylarov was arrested, thrown in jail and charged with a felony for telling an audience at the DefCon hacking conference how his Russian company, ElcomSoft (http://www.elcomsoft.com), easily defeated the encryption in Adobe's e-book format (http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45298,00.html). Skylarov, a Russian national, was arrested for an act that is not a crime in Russia. He was arrested on the insistence of Adobe Systems, charged under the portion of the U.S. Digital Millenium Copyright Act making it a felony to manufacture products that circumvent copy protection. The reaction was predictable. Open source programmers rose up in protest. Rallies were planned in 13 cities (http://www.boycottadobe.com/pages/rallies.html), organized in part by an e-mail list (http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov/). Allen Cox proposed that Linux and other open source development be moved totally out of the U.S., resigning from Usenix (http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/07/20/1228200 ). (Perhaps it will move to India, where Richard Stallman launched a unit of the Free Software Foundation on July 20. (http://www.gnu.org/press/2001-07-20-FSF-India.html)) The Electronic Frontier Foundation tried to meet with Adobe, defuse the situation, and stop the protests (http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html). But Adobe is not the problem. In fact the U.S. Justice Department has come down hard on behalf of throwing people in jail for copyright violations, establishing 10 new offices (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/20548.html) to concentrate on the "problem." By that simple act, it made all political disputes concerning the Internet criminal matters. Scott Rosenberg, who is generally two years behind in his attitudes, predicted the "Napster Diaspora" would become a nightmare for the copyright industries (http://www.salon.com/tech/col/rose/2001/07/20/napster_diaspora/index.html). But it is becoming increasingly clear it's a nightmare for everyone. The copyright industries have more than the law and the police on their side. They have all sorts of technology, designed to enforce their rights to control what you think you own. Recording companies are quietly installing anti-ripping programs into their CDs (and not telling consumers about them) (http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5094340,00.html?chkpt=zdhpnew s01) while an Israeli company promises to treat copyright violators the way Sharon treats Palestinian protestors (http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/07/19/Digital/Digital.30819.html). Those are just two events that were publicized in the last week. A lot of us made a lot of money during the Internet boom predicting that technology couldn't be stopped, that this medium would become a force for freedom in the world. But if the Bush campaign on behalf of record companies succeeds, then any Internet action can be stopped. Laws against e-mailing dirty jokes might actually be enforced (http://news.itspace.com/telecom/tel010720_00.asp). China might yet gain the benefits of the online world without paying its costs in liberty (http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/07/20/china.internet.reut/index.html) for people. My problem is that the present battle seems to be between anarchy and China-like control. It has become an either-or question of whether the Internet will be lawless or bound by law. Governments behave as though this is a war between law and disorder. But that is only true if the laws being enforced are truly agreed-upon by the people who make up the Internet. The fact is these laws have been passed and imposed without the consent of the people governed by them. The DMCA was passed in congressional back rooms, and its advocates lied about its impact. The WIPO treaty was negotiated by diplomats - democracy never entered into it. If the people of the Internet have no way to express their will on how their actions are to be governed, then all laws are tyranny, and all governments are Chinese. Without democracy, the only resort is to lawlessness and revolution. Yet there can be no progress, no freedom, and no real liberty in anarchy - you're only as free then as your strength and technical prowess makes you. I feared when it came into office that the Bush Administration was naove, that it would step into crises willy-nilly, ignoring the popular will, the limits of its power, and all questions of principle. Sadly, I've been proven right, and now many will pay. It will start with Dimitry Skylarov. It will not end with him. A-Clue.Com is a free email publication, registered with the U.S. Copyright Office as number TXu 888-819. We're on the Web at http://www.a-clue.com. From mark at blorch.org Sun Jul 29 10:12:12 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072910121203.10484@bilbo.blorch.org> On Sunday 29 July 2001 03:55, Peter wrote: > But the problem is that the DoJ wants to set an example with this case > just to proof that this law is 'right'. So, they will do everything > they can to proscecute Dmitry. > Peter I'm afraid you have a point there. With Ashcroft launching nine new "cybercrime" units and promising to crack down on "cybercrime," this is liable to be a rough ride. One thing that disturbs me is that governments--when they get into oppressive moods--tend to abuse the rights of less defensible folk then edge their way over. The Mitnick case was hard to rally support because he did do some seriously wrong things. Even though that was NOT an excuse for the abuse of his rights. Now the USG has found a "Russian hacker!" to pick on, to gauge whether they can get away with this. Next... ??? Now, I'm no Conspiracy! freak. But I do think there are things I tend to call "conspiracies of convenience." Governments always tend to try to increase their power and reach. Even the "founding fathers" warned about this, worried over it, sought to curb it. Here we have a case where the DoJ/FBI can increase their power and reach. That interest is aligned with some scum corporate executives who want the USG to defend their stock options and bonuses. I think they found Dmitry a convenient target to kind of "test the waters" and see we'd all be too scared to oppose them, reassuring ourselves with "well, it's just some Russian hacker anyway." Or some such. Of course, if they get away with this one, the next time it could be one of *us. Mark From cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu Sun Jul 29 10:22:33 2001 From: cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Rally Resources Message-ID: freesklyarov.org has added some new materials to our 'rally resources' section which might be of use to both organizers and others who want to bring useful materials with them on Monday (and beyond!). We have: flyers, banner ads, chords and lyrics to two protest songs, a pair of chants (more suggestions welcome!), a street theater routine, photos of dmitry and family, a guide on pronouncing 'sklyarov', bumper stickers, a guide to writing your congressman, and a large collection of 'official statements' in support of dmitry, and articles and essays explaining the situation, some of which might be usefully distributed to the public at the rallies. I hope lots of people can make use of this material! If you've got more stuff which would be useful to other organizers and local groups, send them my way and I'll make sure they get onto freesklyarov.org. --s Peking Indonesia atomic Hager kibo ASW Dictionary KGB CIA struggle Castro IDEA overthrow FBI Morwenstow shotgun Ft. Meade direct action ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian ) -- "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970, minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4. -- [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/] #!/usr/bin/perl -w # 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz # MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout # arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order $_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5; $_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d= unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d >>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9 ,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t ^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271)) [$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval From ed at hintz.org Sun Jul 29 10:25:33 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? Message-ID: <200107291726.f6THQoc05294@phil.hintz.org> On 7/29/01 10:12 AM, mark@blorch.org thus spake: > >Of course, if they get away with this one, the next time it could be one of >*us. Berlin, 1939: First they came for the Jews, But I did not speak out, Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists, And I did not speak out, Because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade-unionists, And I did not speak out, Because I was not a trade-unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, And I did not speak out, Because I was not a Catholic. Then they came for me, And there was no one left to speak out for me. - Pastor Niemller (Anti-Nazi Resistance Movement) Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca Sun Jul 29 10:32:12 2001 From: marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca (Austin Hook) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Breaking the Law? In-Reply-To: <001301c11840$cc956180$0100a8c0@houston.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Jul 2001, Ricky Ostrom wrote: > If Adobe bought and holds a couple copies of this software. Aren't they > breaking the law too? Sure, why not? Adobe is not the publisher who is protecting his copyright in many of these cases. They may sell the encryption software, but they are not the copyright holder of the material being protected. Can we get an eBook publisher to file a complaint against Adobe? A.H. From kris at firstworld.net Sun Jul 29 10:44:49 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? In-Reply-To: <01072910121203.10484@bilbo.blorch.org> References: Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010729104425.01294ae0@pop.firstworld.net> At 10:12 AM 7/29/2001 -0700, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: >Of course, if they get away with this one, the next time it could be one of >*us. First they came for the Phonefreaks, and I did not speak out because I was not a Phonefreak. Then they came for the Hackers, and I did not speak out because I was not a Hacker. Then they came for the Coders, and I did not speak out because I was not a Coder. Then they came for the Network Security People, and I did not speak out because I was not in Network Security. Then they came for the Web Administrators, and I did not speak out because I was not a Web Administrator. Then they came for the System Administrators, and I did not speak out because I was not a System Administrator. Then they came for the Consultants, and I did not speak out because I was not a Consultant. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. With respects to Pastor Martin Niem?ller From kastlyn at unixtribe.net Sun Jul 29 10:46:33 2001 From: kastlyn at unixtribe.net (Kastlyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] freesklyarov.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes, that's correct. =} We're working with the local 2600 group to do a protest during their usual meeting time next Friday, so that means lots of time for leafletting and getting the word out about the protest! =} Are any of the other 2600 meeting groups planning anything for Friday? Just pointing to the slc2600 site is fine, since they are heading up this one, and I vaguely remember reading that freesklyarov.org will only point to one local site. So, I'll just ask the slc2600 people to link to our site. =} -=amie=- On Sun, 29 Jul 2001, C. Scott Ananian wrote: > freesklyarov.org has > http://www.2600slc.org/dmitry/index.html > as the "canonical" salt lake city site, with an august 3rd action planned. > (and no monday action listed.) is this correct? > --s (for freesklyarov.org) > > DNC Shoal Bay FBI Philadelphia security East Timor Sigint DES Rijndael > Noriega SSBN 743 jihad interception President SEAL Team 6 RNC Nader > ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian ) > -- > "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is > all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970, > minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4. > -- From tabindak at best.com Sun Jul 29 10:53:38 2001 From: tabindak at best.com (Tabinda N. Khan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [DMITRY-PLAN] Rally Resources In-Reply-To: ; from cananian@lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu on Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 01:22:33PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010729105338.A15318@shell9.ba.best.com> Quoting C. Scott Ananian: > freesklyarov.org has added some new materials to our 'rally resources' > section which might be of use to both organizers and others who want to > bring useful materials with them on Monday (and beyond!). This site is looking great. Thanks for all the hard work. I'll be updating the flyers today. Tabinda -- From jono at microshaft.org Sun Jul 29 11:10:17 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [declan@well.com: FC: Business Software Alliance targets NYC with "truce" campaign] Message-ID: <20010729111017.V33344@networkcommand.com> ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- X-Sender: declan@mail.well.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 13:34:00 -0400 To: politech@politechbot.com From: Declan McCullagh Subject: FC: Business Software Alliance targets NYC with "truce" campaign Precedence: bulk Reply-To: declan@well.com X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ X-Author: Declan McCullagh is at http://www.mccullagh.org/ X-News-Site: Cluebot is at http://www.cluebot.com/ ********** From: Mark Milone Cc: "politech@politechbot.com" , "Michael E. Smith (E-mail)" , "Jay Sulzberger (E-mail)" Subject: BSA is Watching You (or NYC, at least) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 11:05:20 -0400 Taking the Subway home from work on Friday, I was stirred from my usual commute-induced stupor by the sight of a dread inspiring advertising campaign. Those of us who live in NYC [you know who you are], are accustomed to seeing whole subway trains devoted to touting a particular brand of sneaker, liquor, fashion line, etc. Well, on Friday Kenneth Cole took a back seat to the Business Software Alliance's Software Truce campaign (www.bsatruce.com). Entire subway cars were plastered with threats of BSA 'targeting' New York City. Paging Mr. Orwell . . . What, exactly, does this 'targeting' entail? Incentives for informant network administrators and disgruntled employees? Coordination with (and funding for) Mr. Ashcroft's Copyright Police (see the comment made by Robert Holleyman, CEO of the BSA, in Declan McCullagh's recent Wired article at http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45608,00.html)? Incorporation of facial recognition software into NYC's photo radar system to track the whereabouts of suspected infringers? ;^) All I know from the ad is that offenders are given the choice of coming clean in exchange for a 20% licensing discount or prosecution with the promise of a public flogging. A quick view of the bsatruce.com site doesn't give too much info. There is, however, software entitled 'GASP' that companies can use to audit their systems (aside: does the BSA employ the same marketing genius responsible for naming 'Carnivore?'). The BSA privacy policy says that "The personal information volunteered by our users via the download of this software will be used by Attest for purposes of identification, direct marketing and online transactions." That's fine, I guess, but what if the software is downloaded and installed by an employee without the proper authority and in contemplation of leaving its employment? In Shurgard Storage Centers v. Safeguard Self Storage the federal district court in the Western District of Washington upheld a cause of action in favor of employers who may suffer the loss of trade secret information at the hands of disloyal employees who act in the interest of a competitor and future employer. Based on this ruling, an employee could be subject to federal criminal sanction for such actions, and the new employer could be deemed a party who is participating in a criminal conspiracy. I know it's a stretch, but could the hypothetical disgruntled employee be considered an agent of the BSA that has accessed a "protected computer without authorization, resulting in liability for BSA?" Mark G. Milone, Esq. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- End forwarded message ----- From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Jul 29 11:23:24 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:28 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Support for the Association of American Publishers In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010729095611.026a4e00@mail.well.com>; from declan@well.com on Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 09:56:45AM -0400 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010729095611.026a4e00@mail.well.com> Message-ID: <20010729112324.D6187@zork.net> Declan McCullagh writes: > >To: John Zenger John Zenger is a famous name in U.S. free expression history (from before the U.S. itself). http://www.google.com/search?q=john+peter+zenger Just sayin'. -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Jul 29 11:29:01 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Modifying DMCA & WIPO In-Reply-To: <3B643F01.30C1E1CE@mindspring.com>; from mickeym@mindspring.com on Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 12:51:14PM -0400 References: <3B643F01.30C1E1CE@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20010729112901.E6187@zork.net> mickeym writes: > 1) Prohibit circumvention conduct only when part of an actual act of copyright > infringment. This has been a policy recommendation of several computing and civil liberties organizations for a long time. It means that the law would have to reach only conduct and not technology, which may not seem like enough for some publishers. But this is a tradition going back further than _Sony v. Universal_. (Unfortunately, _Sony v. Universal_ also held -- as copyright industries have been pointing out -- that "Sound policy, as well as history, supports our consistent deference to Congress when major technological innovations alter the market for copyrighted materials. Congress has the constitutional authority and the institutional ability to accommodate fully the varied permutations of competing interests that are inevitably implicated by such new technology.") -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Sun Jul 29 11:29:11 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Picket-Signs-mini-HOWTO Message-ID: A couple of us got together and made a simple "intro" to making picket signs based on our experiences from last week. It's reproduced below, and also posted at: http://csua.berkeley.edu/~alexf/sklyarov/Picket-Signs-mini-HOWTO Any corrections/additions are most welcome; send them to . Hopefully this'll help people make some cool signs for Monday's events =) +++ Picket Signs mini-HOWTO Victor Piterbarg v0.0.1, 28 Jul 2001 This document provides provides a simple introduction to making effective picket signs efficiently. The totality of information presented herein was gathered from the author's very limited experience only and is effectively just a minimal collection of "lessons learned." ______________________________________________________________________ Table of Contents 1. Introduction 2. The "basic sign" 3. Materials 4. Putting it all together 5. Further resources 6. Updates/corrections 7. Revision history ______________________________________________________________________ 1. Introduction Seems like lately we've been having a lot of protests, and making signs is an essential part of participating in a protest. Doing this is fairly easy, but it's even easier when you know what you are doing. It's especially good when you know what it is you need to buy, and be able to set a budget before you go shopping. Most of my experience comes from working on the first Dmitry Sklyarov protest in San Jose. I hope this will be helpful to everyone who's making protest signs. It should be noted that we did all our shopping at K-Mart and Home Depot; the "where to buy" information is thus just with regard to those two places -- there're probably better places to buy some of the stuff, but we don't know what they are. ______________________________________________________________________ 2. The "basic sign" A basic sign should posess several qualities: 1. It should be sturdy so it doesn't blow over in the wind or fall apart. 2. It should be double-sided, because people look at you from all sides. 3. It should be easy to hold, because you may end up protesting for several hours, and you wouldn't want your arms to fall off. 4. It should carry a clear, concise, and easily readable message. ______________________________________________________________________ 3. Materials a. Lots of cardboard. Cardboard is a fairly common commodity. However, if you happen to run out, you can purchase card-board boxes at hardware stores, like Home Depot. Discarded cardboard boxes may be found anywhere where people use or sell lots of stuff that comes in cardboard boxes. Use your imagination. b. Lots of posterboard. The posterboard should be about 2' x 3'. You can use any color. White works best, light neon colors work well too. You can use black, and spray-paint it with white enamel. These go for about $.60 a piece, and can be found at pretty much any place that sells art supplies for kids (K-Mart worked for us). c. Markers. FAT BLACK PERMANENT MARKERS. You can never go wrong with those (the fatter the better). However, it never hurts to add some happy colors to your signs as well; a set of 1/4"-thick Crayola markers(?) proved quite useful. Sharpies can also be nice for drawing in fine details, but are less practical for "quick and dirty" signs that need to be readable and quick to make. While colored markers and sharpies can be found in any "art supplies for kids" section, finding sufficiently FAT black markers has proven to be more difficult. Perhaps a specialized "art supplies" store would help? d. Pencils/erasers. Useful for sketching sign layout before you start coloring everything in with markers/stencils. e. Stencils and tape (optional). If you have terrible handwriting, or just want your signs to look really neat, use stencils. If possible, check if the stencil set you're buying is complete; we've somehow ended up with missing letters in ours. Buying multiple sets is advised, since it is easier to use pre-arranged words, and words tend to have repeat letters. Stencils can be found, e.g., at a hardware store. Get some narrow transparent tape (a la 3M's Scotch tape) too, for holding the stencils together. f. Spray-paint (optional). This is particularly useful if you get stencils. Be forewarned that spray-painting text without stencils is difficult and yields rather poor-looking results [in our experience]. Furthermore, even with stencils, spray-painting stencils IS AN ART. Get some practice before doing it for real. A person with prior spray-painting experience proved to be _very_ instrumental in our experience. A large spraypaint can costs around $2 at a hardware store. Spray paint is also useful if you bought a bunch of black posterboard, and have nothing to write with on it. You can either spray paint your message directly, or spray paint the board white, wait for it to dry and then write with regular markers on the dried spray-paint. g. Shipping tape. One roll of fat shipping tape lasts forever, but get two. It's about $3 a roll. h. Staples and staple gun or stapler. You may need to to staple the cardboard and the posterboard to a stick. You will need fairly long staples for this, in the vicinity of 3/4 of an inch. Obviously a staple-gun would be essential. You may also use glue, but it's not as sturdy, and much messier. i. Cutting tools. You will need to cut cardboard. A pocket knife will do just fine. An exacto knife can be useful for some tasks as well (such as making additional stencils). Scissors are useful for cutting tape and other stuff. j. Wooden sticks. The length should be about 4-5 feet. The cross section should be either rectangular or rounded -- the rounded ones are easier on your hands, but harder to attach to the cardboard. The diameter for the round cross-section should be about 1-1.5"; the dimensions of the rectangular cross-section should be about 1"x2.5". You want a good portion of the stick inside the posterboard and still have something to hold on to. Home Depot works well for this; you can cut the right length right in the store. Sticks can be replaced by multiple cardboard strips or cardboard tubes, but we recommend against this. ______________________________________________________________________ 4. Putting it all together. a. Figure out what you want to put on the signs. Make sure your messages are short enough to fit onto signs in VERY LARGE LETTERS. Target length should be 4 words. Anything past 8-10 words is almost guaranteed to be unusable. Remember that each sign can have 2 distinct slogans, one for each side. b. Assuming you came up with a clever message, write it on the poster board. Use a pencil to do a quick sketch of what you want on the poster to make sure you don't run out of space at the end of a line or at the bottom of the text area; definitely do a sketch first if you want to add any non-text "artwork". It is often forgotten that a posterboard has two sides, so if you mess up on one side there's always the other one. Since our target "model" is cardboard sandwiched between two posterboards, one side of each posterboard will be out of sight. c. Take another poster board and write a different message. d. Take a large piece of cardboard, and place one of your posterboards with a message onto the cardboard. Cut around the posterboard until you have a piece of cardboard which is the same size as your posterboard. You may prepare these uniformly sized pieces of cardboard ahead of time. e. Now take one of the posterboards and place it onto the cardboard. Then place both of these over a stick, and run a few staples into the stick from the posterboard side. You can also use glue. Then place the other posterboard on the other side. Staple the posterboard to the stick as well. If you have short staples, you may want to staple the two posterboards to the cardboard as well. Now tape both of the posterboards and the cardboard together along the edges. If you do not have wooden sticks, you can use a double-width (at least) strip of cardboard or a cardboard tube, although this will make the sign less sturdy and more unpleasant to hold. If you use multiple layers of cardboard strips, wrap them with shipping tape for stability and holdability (is that a word?). At this point, you should have constructed a picket sign. If you constructed a turbo jet engine instead, disassemble it, re-read the instructions carefully, and start over from step (b). ______________________________________________________________________ 5. Further Resources The Australian Critics of Scientology group has some useful information about picket signs, which some of this document stems from; it's posted at: http://scn.martinobrien.com/picket/ETHERCAT/GERARD/DEMO/HOWTO/INDEX.HTM#signs At the time of writing, this seems to be the sole useful resource on the subject that Google knows about. ______________________________________________________________________ 6. Updates/Corrections To contribute corrections or additions to this document, email the author at . The author reserves the right to stop maintaining this document at any point in time. ______________________________________________________________________ 7. Revision history 28 Jul 2001 - 0.0.1 - VP - created From bobds at blorch.org Sun Jul 29 11:40:38 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Breaking the Law? In-Reply-To: <001301c11840$cc956180$0100a8c0@houston.rr.com> References: <001301c11840$cc956180$0100a8c0@houston.rr.com> Message-ID: <01072911403800.29113@bitworks> On Sunday 29 July 2001 08:11, you wrote: > If Adobe bought and holds a couple copies of this software. Aren't they > breaking the law too? That might seem reasonable, but my quick read of the law (and it's a COMPLICATED one, I'm sure by no accident) says you can't "manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, or component, or part thereof" thta is on another long list of forbidden things. No mention of simple possession as a crime. > Is anyone who writes a new ZIP program breaking the law? Depends. If they're embarrassing or annoying a big corporation, then yes, of course that's always a crime. From klepht at eleutheria.org Sun Jul 29 11:53:44 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Breaking the Law? In-Reply-To: <001301c11840$cc956180$0100a8c0@houston.rr.com> References: <001301c11840$cc956180$0100a8c0@houston.rr.com> Message-ID: <8766cb5zyf.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "RO" == Ricky Ostrom writes: RO> If Adobe bought and holds a couple copies of this software. RO> Aren't they breaking the law too? Actually, I believe that _using_ a circumvention device, if you are within your fair use rights, is totally legal. It's just the sucker who _provides_ you with the code that gets in trouble. I think there's something about this on the EFF site. ~Klepht P.S. I am not a lawyer and if you are stupid enough to take legal advice from some anonymous guy named "Klepht" on some crazy mailing list, you deserve whatever horrible things happen to you. -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Jul 29 11:59:44 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Breaking the Law? In-Reply-To: <8766cb5zyf.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 11:53:44AM -0700 References: <001301c11840$cc956180$0100a8c0@houston.rr.com> <8766cb5zyf.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010729115944.H6187@zork.net> Klepht writes: > >>>>> "RO" == Ricky Ostrom writes: > > RO> If Adobe bought and holds a couple copies of this software. > RO> Aren't they breaking the law too? > > Actually, I believe that _using_ a circumvention device, if you are > within your fair use rights, is totally legal. > > It's just the sucker who _provides_ you with the code that gets in > trouble. I think there's something about this on the EFF site. There is a distinction between 1201(a) and 1201(b) such that 1201(a) proscribes both use and trafficking, and 1201(b) proscribes only trafficking. (Did I remember correctly? I don't have time to look it up because I have to go to the sign-making party in Berkeley.) -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From adunston at jetstream.com Sun Jul 29 12:16:33 2001 From: adunston at jetstream.com (Adrian Dunston) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:29 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] North Carolina protest Friday Aug 3 Message-ID: Thanks to the quick work of Chuck Mead over at moongroup.org, Raleigh protesters have a non commercial site to work from now. The url is below. http://badlaw.moongroup.org/ Because we can't organize anything newsworthy by Monday, the Raleigh protest is officially (as official as protests get) scheduled for Friday starting at 11:30 at the NC Capitol building in downtown Raleigh. Permits will be ready, so we aren't harassed for disturbing the peace or littering flyers. We're contacting reporters at the News and Observer and the WRAL and WRAZ news channels. I'm submitting the new site to the main site freesklyarov.org. Chuck is preparing to print a ream of flyers. Things are in motion. Please get your signs ready, and get your friends interested, and if you have any questions or concerns or offers of help regarding Friday's protest in Raleigh, please write me at pedro_picasso@yahoo.com. -Adrian P. Dunston __ (sourceCode == freeSpeech) //Support the EFF. http://www.x-omega.com/shirtdept From wahern at 25thandClement.com Sun Jul 29 12:22:12 2001 From: wahern at 25thandClement.com (William Ahern) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] party in berkley Message-ID: <0107291222120M.27999@bill> when and where is this sign-making party in berkley? i couldn't find info anywhere. (searched my list mail, and the freesklyarov.org/sf only mentions it). From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Jul 29 12:25:37 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] party in berkley In-Reply-To: <0107291222120M.27999@bill>; from wahern@25thandClement.com on Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 12:22:12PM -0700 References: <0107291222120M.27999@bill> Message-ID: <20010729122537.B1249@zork.net> William Ahern writes: > when and where is this sign-making party in berkley? > i couldn't find info anywhere. (searched my list mail, > and the freesklyarov.org/sf only mentions it). Soda Hall (the UC Berkeley computer science building), in the Wozniak Lounge (just walk around back and you'll see people). http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Campus/Directions/#soda It's today, 1:00p-9:00p (I'm going to be there for about two hours during that time). -- Seth David Schoen | And do not say, I will study when I Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | have leisure; for perhaps you will down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | not have leisure. -- Pirke Avot 2:5 From rick at linuxmafia.com Sun Jul 29 12:32:53 2001 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] party in berkley In-Reply-To: <0107291222120M.27999@bill> Message-ID: <20010729123253.B9784@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> begin William Ahern quotation: > when and where is this sign-making party in berkley? > i couldn't find info anywhere. (searched my list mail, > and the freesklyarov.org/sf only mentions it). http://linuxmafia.com/bale/ Sun. Jul. 29 1-9p Berkeley Free Dmitry Sklyarov Sign-Making Session, Wozniak Lounge, 430-438 Soda Hall, UC Berkeley Map: http://linuxmafia.com/bale/map-ucbsoda.jpeg My big pile of Dmitry links is now accessible as a link from my home page http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/ , at http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/dmitry-links Via that list, you can find: http://zork.net/dmitry/ San Francisco Bay Area and https://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-sfba/ San Francisco Bay Area On the latter link's set of mailing list archives, you can find useful posts from Alex Fabrikant and Vadim Kogan about the party, and what to bring to it. -- Cheers, "Cthulhu loves me, this I know; because the High Priests tell me so! Rick Moen He won't eat me, no, not yet. He's my Elder God, dank and wet!" rick@linuxmafia.com From mark at geekhive.net Sun Jul 29 12:32:14 2001 From: mark at geekhive.net (Mark Jaroski) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:30 2005 Subject: [mark@geekhive.net: Re: [free-sklyarov] Monday the 30th Plans] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010729123214.A24113@geekhive.net> Kastlyn wrote: > So far as I know, soldiers (who are currently in the military) can not > protest. They have to let it go (all the way?) through the courts, then I > believe they can protest at that point, if they feel the courts made the > wrong decision. I'm not asking for active duty servicemembers.. Vets are free to engage in whatever political action they want. Seriously, think of the propaganda potential of having a couple of guys from the WWII generation join us *in uniform*. Ir really has a powerful effect on public perception. So I'm hearby issuing an appeal for any vets to please come in uniform. Get out the medals if you have them! Also if you are good at convincing your elder relatives of things this is the time to pull out all of the stops. -- -- mark at geekhive dot net ================================================================== From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Sun Jul 29 12:22:54 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:30 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Geektivist References: <20010728131249.A25586@area.com> <20010728164106.B16546@cluebot.com> Message-ID: <3B64628E.BE434800@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Declan, you know language better than this. Seth Johnson Declan McCullagh wrote: > > So you consider yourself a geek and an activist, but you > don't like it when someone calls you a geektivist? Uhhh... right. > > -Declan From dfm at area.com Sun Jul 29 13:09:30 2001 From: dfm at area.com (Dan Martinez) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] party in berkley In-Reply-To: <0107291222120M.27999@bill>; from wahern@25thandClement.com on Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 12:22:12PM -0700 References: <0107291222120M.27999@bill> Message-ID: <20010729130930.F21338@area.com> William Ahern wrote: > when and where is this sign-making party in berkley? > i couldn't find info anywhere. (searched my list mail, > and the freesklyarov.org/sf only mentions it). Try the calendar! http://www.freesklyarov.org/calendar/ The sign-making party is currently the second item in the list. Dan From marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca Sun Jul 29 13:17:15 2001 From: marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca (Austin Hook) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Breaking the Law? In-Reply-To: <01072911403800.29113@bitworks> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Jul 2001, Bob Smart wrote: > On Sunday 29 July 2001 08:11, you wrote: > > If Adobe bought and holds a couple copies of this software. Aren't they > > breaking the law too? > > That might seem reasonable, but my quick read of the law (and it's a > COMPLICATED one, I'm sure by no accident) says you can't "manufacture, > import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, > product, service, device, or component, or part thereof" thta is on another > long list of forbidden things. No mention of simple possession as a crime. But when drug dealers get caught for trafficing, aren't both the buyer and seller doing it? And also didn't Adobe "import" it? A.H. From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Sun Jul 29 13:24:19 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] signmaking party in Berkeley NOW, until 9pm Message-ID: friendly reminder: signmaking party. right now. in berkeley. directions can be found at the bottom of the following message: http://zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/2001-July/002289.html -- -alexf From gaolbait at home.com Sun Jul 29 13:29:49 2001 From: gaolbait at home.com (Oscar Wilde) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Adobe violation of the DMCA? References: Message-ID: <007601c1186d$3a29bbc0$667ba8c0@palto1.sfba.home.com> << Just think how interesting this would get if the FBI were looking at a complaint against John Warnock for a violation of the DMCA by Adobe. The damn law is so absurd that Adobe may well have violated it themselves. >> It is a fact that PDF document security protections applied with earlier versions of Adobe Acrobat (3.x, 4.x) using "Adobe Standard Security" can be *entirely removed* by anyone using Adobe Acrobat 5.0 -- without knowing the owner password. With Acrobat 5.0, the protected document can be saved as a naked PDF -- which is exactly what Elcomsoft's Advanced eBook Processor can do with a protected Adobe eBook. For example, a local non-profit association to which I belong has been publishing our *copyrighted* member directory in electronic form as a PDF (created with a purchased copy of Acrobat 4.05). We disallowed text selection to make it harder for people to extract our names and addresses en masse and spam us with unsolicited offers (and also because we *sell* our mailing list). Now we find that anyone with the later version of the software can defeat the digital content protections that we, as publisher, imposed on our copyrighted digital work -- protections that are in principle no different from those on Adobe eBooks. Adobe *sells* this software. It would be amusing if Adobe had no better defense against a "trafficking" charge under the DMCA than the other legitimate uses for Acrobat 5.0. (It is not necessarily relevant that, even before Acrobat 5.0 was released, PDF security protection against text selection only could be defeated with a free plug-in from Adobe for the visually impaired . . . which does not work in the latest version of Acrobat). Oscar From jim at media.mit.edu Sun Jul 29 13:40:23 2001 From: jim at media.mit.edu (Jim Youll) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FREESKLYAROV.ORG needs 1 or 2 editors Message-ID: <200107292040.QAA18352@dns1.newmediagroup.com> FREESKLYAROV.ORG is now hiring ONE OR TWO count 'em TWO editors. Pay: FREE!!! but good for karma contact the author of this note... relevant experience will include copy editing and HTML publishing or at least the ability to use a text editor! THIS IS PROBABLY ONE EDITOR: Open letter editor -- receive and format open letters we receive from the public for posting Official statement editor -- locate, excerpt and link to official statements by well known people/organizations AND THIS MAY BE THE OTHER: Case Summary Editor -- maintain the "what's this all about" front excerpt and internal summary. maybe add a timeline. Update the record as things progress, e.g. "to date, 12 national computing organizations including the ACM have protested the arrest..." Requires keeping up with the news, 1-n updates per week depending upon what's happening cheers -- http://www.media.mit.edu/~jim research assistant . software agents group . e-markets sig mit media lab . cambridge, ma Free Dmitry Sklyarov ... http://freesklyarov.org/ From dmarti at zgp.org Sun Jul 29 13:46:20 2001 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] book author letters to DoJ? Message-ID: <20010729134620.A16731@zgp.org> Do we have any examples of good letters from authors to the people at the Department of Justice? I ran into some sympathetic authors at the O'Reilly conference and will be bugging them to write letters in support of Dmitry and against the DMCA. (Then once we've got the computer book authors we can go after the others...) See you all Monday in San Francisco. I'll be bringing 1500 copies of the new version of Tabinda's flyer, my bullhorn, and the American flag. -- Don Marti What do we want? Free Dmitry! When do we want it? Now! http://zgp.org/~dmarti Free Dmitry: http://eff.org/ dmarti@zgp.org Free the web, burn all GIFs: http://burnallgifs.org/ From ausage at ausage.com Sun Jul 29 14:28:04 2001 From: ausage at ausage.com (Andrew Lawrence) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Information About WIPO Wanted In-Reply-To: <3B63C317.32022.2E1C6F@localhost> References: <3B63C317.32022.2E1C6F@localhost> Message-ID: <01072916531600.15612@frankie> On July 29, 2001 02:02 am, Erik Moeller wrote: > Hi, > > apparently the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO), a UN > agency with a ~250 million $ budget, is responsible, among other > despicable things, for the DMCA, the EU copyright directive, the > Canadian equivalent to the DMCA and all other laws concerning the > circumvention of copy-protection. See the "WIPO Copyright Treaty > adopted by the Diplomatic Conference on December 20, 1996": Canada does not have an equivalent to the DMCA yet, but it is being proposed. Industry Canada and the Department of Canadian Heritage have released consultation papers (http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/SSG/rp01100e.html) and are calling for public comments by September 15, 2001. While several issues are being studing (internet re-broadcast rights, manditory licencing, etc), how to implement the "anti-circumvention" provisions of the WIPO treaties is right at the fore-front. I urge every Canadian on this list to read the documents and submit their comments, write to their MP, and write to the Minister of Industry, the Honorable Brian Tobin, and the Minister of Canadian Heritage, the Honorable Sheila Copps, as well as their counter parts in the Opposition. Comments to Industry Canada can be submitted by email, fax or plain snail mail. Your can find the name and address for your MP at http://www.parl.gc.ca/common/SenatorsMembers_house.asp?Language=E&Parl=37&Ses=1&Sect=hoccur The ministers and the Opposition spokesmen are listed at (http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/about/people/key/Critic.asp?Source=hoccur Remember, when writing to a member of parliament, you don't even need to pay for a stamp. From robertl1 at home.com Sun Jul 29 15:14:39 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Adobe violation of the DMCA? In-Reply-To: <007601c1186d$3a29bbc0$667ba8c0@palto1.sfba.home.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010729151224.00aac110@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> LOL, Way to go Oscar! Keep this up and your namesake will be RIHGL, Rolling in his grave laughing :-) I will bet a good lawyer could stick em. At 01:29 PM 7/29/01 -0700, you wrote: ><< Just think how interesting this would get if the FBI were looking at a >complaint against John Warnock for a violation of the DMCA by Adobe. >The damn law is so absurd that Adobe may well have violated it themselves. >> > >It is a fact that PDF document security protections applied with earlier versions of Adobe Acrobat (3.x, 4.x) using "Adobe Standard Security" can be *entirely removed* by anyone using Adobe Acrobat 5.0 -- without knowing the owner password. With Acrobat 5.0, the protected document can be saved as a naked PDF -- which is exactly what Elcomsoft's Advanced eBook Processor can do with a protected Adobe eBook. > >For example, a local non-profit association to which I belong has been publishing our *copyrighted* member directory in electronic form as a PDF (created with a purchased copy of Acrobat 4.05). We disallowed text selection to make it harder for people to extract our names and addresses en masse and spam us with unsolicited offers (and also because we *sell* our mailing list). Now we find that anyone with the later version of the software can defeat the digital content protections that we, as publisher, imposed on our copyrighted digital work -- protections that are in principle no different from those on Adobe eBooks. > >Adobe *sells* this software. It would be amusing if Adobe had no better defense against a "trafficking" charge under the DMCA than the other legitimate uses for Acrobat 5.0. > >(It is not necessarily relevant that, even before Acrobat 5.0 was released, PDF security protection against text selection only could be defeated with a free plug-in from Adobe for the visually impaired . . . which does not work in the latest version of Acrobat). > >Oscar > > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov Bob La Quey From jmd at turbogeek.org Sun Jul 29 15:29:22 2001 From: jmd at turbogeek.org (jmd@turbogeek.org) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Legal addition to flyers Message-ID: <20010729172922.A514@foozle.turbogeek.org> I hope to attend the Chicago protest tomarrow. I plan to add a notice similar to the following to the back of my flyers. Thought some others might like to integrate it into their own, or suggest alternate wording. The idea is it's short, and shocking. Saying "Don't forget to read the notice on the back" as a disinterested flyer holder walks away looking for a trash can might get them to read the short notice. If it can peak their interest, they'll read the front, too. +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ | {3/4" red letter} NOTICE | | | | Persons attempting to fold, crumple, and/or spill coffee on this | | flyer are in violation of The Flyer's terms of use. This is a | | felony pursuant to Section 1201(a) of the Digital Millennium | | Copyright Act. | | | | Violators are subject to five years imprisonment and fines up to | | $500,000. | +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ {small type} Ridiculous, isn't it? It's hard to form a good parallel between mangling the flyer and copyright law's fair use rights in two sentances (earlier, longer drafts made a very nice comparison), but it's more important that the notice remain short, or no one will read it. Free Dmitry, Repeal the DMCA, /jmd -- Jeremy M. Dolan PGP: 1024D/DC433DEE 494C 7A6E 19FB 026A 1F52 E0D5 5C5D 6228 DC43 3DEE From bobds at blorch.org Sun Jul 29 15:49:51 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Breaking the Law? In-Reply-To: <20010729115944.H6187@zork.net> References: <001301c11840$cc956180$0100a8c0@houston.rr.com> <8766cb5zyf.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010729115944.H6187@zork.net> Message-ID: <01072915495100.01058@bitworks> On Sunday 29 July 2001 11:59, you wrote: > Klepht writes: > There is a distinction between 1201(a) and 1201(b) such that 1201(a) > proscribes both use and trafficking, and 1201(b) proscribes only > trafficking. (Did I remember correctly? I don't have time to look it > up because I have to go to the sign-making party in Berkeley.) Looks like you remembered pretty well. 1201(a) says: No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. 1201(b) says: No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, or component or part thereof, that [does naughty things]. However, Adobe still probably isn't guilty just for possessing copies of the software--because they aren't "circumventing" their own access controls. But wait, there's more. Section 1204 says: Any person who violates section 1201 or 1202 willfully and for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain 1) shall be fined not more than $500,000 or imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both, FOR THE FIRST OFFENSE; and 2) shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned for not more than 10 years, or both, for any subsequent offense [my emphasis added]. Let's see, I hear there were seven copies of the program in question purchased in the US...so how many "offenses" is that? Boys 'n' girls, this has the potential to get a LOT worse before it gets any better. -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From bobds at blorch.org Sun Jul 29 15:55:16 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Breaking the Law? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072915551601.01058@bitworks> On Sunday 29 July 2001 13:17, you wrote: > But when drug dealers get caught for trafficing, aren't both the buyer and > seller doing it? And also didn't Adobe "import" it? I'm not an attorney, so there's no good reason to take me seriously about any of this...but I think the reason buyers and sellers in drug deals are both criminals is that we have laws that prohibit "trafficking" in drugs AND we have other laws that makes mere possession of drugs illegal in itself. DMCA doesn't (quite) seem to have that second part. I'm not sure who "imported" the program. It's an interesting question, and if it lands just one Adobe executive in the next cell over, I'll be thrilled...but I won't be holding my breath expecting it to happen that way. -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From jays at panix.com Sun Jul 29 16:58:42 2001 From: jays at panix.com (Jay Sulzberger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Noon Monday 30 July 2001: Rally to Free Dmitry Sklyarov Message-ID: Noon Monday 30 July 2001 at 41st Street and Fifth Avenue, before the New York Public Library, on the Island of Manhattan, there will be a rally to free Dmitry Sklyarov. Note that this is not an LXNY event, but rather the second of a series of rallies, whose Lead Organizer and First Contact is Leonid Gorkin lgorkin@excite.com or lgorkin1@nyc.rr.com There have been and will be rallies in about twenty cities. http://freesklyarov.org/calendar Much of the organizing of New York City Rallies to Free Dmitry take place on the fairuse mailing list of NYFairUse, which list may be joined at http://www.nyfairuse.org To download a flyer go to: http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/dmitry-links For more information: http://freesklyarov.org http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov http://eff.org http://www.dibona.com/dmca http://www.templetons.com/brad/free.html We need marchers and leafleteers and copiers of leaflets and designers of leaflets and propagandizers and lobbyists and lawyers and coders and water carriers and publicists and diplomats. Come to the Rally and help! Come to the Rally and meet allies! Dmitry Sklyarov sits in jail today. Come to the Rally and help get him out! I neither confirm nor deny that at the Rally Mr. Bones and Mr. Interlocutor will lead certain passers-by and some shills in a short round of Fourier analysis, present a didactic piece called Pig-Latin, Patents Royal, Imaginary Lines upon the Earth, and Groups Generated by Reflections, based on the standard work of Lewis Carroll, and also forcefully demonstrate by direct manipulation little known advantages of Free Software to certain folk who might otherwise walk past without finding out where and when we next meet. Jay Sulzberger Corresponding Secretary LXNY LXNY is New York's Free Computing Organization. http://www.lxny.org From tabindak at best.com Sun Jul 29 16:58:31 2001 From: tabindak at best.com (Tabinda N. Khan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] updated flyers Message-ID: <20010729165831.B13168@shell9.ba.best.com> All, I've updated the Free Dmitry flyers to include information about the DoJ meeting Friday. These flyers are not location-specific and are meant to be flexible and can be modified to fit your needs. I have posted HTML, Word, PostScript, and PDF versions at http://www.tabinda.com/freedmitry. Kris's version is also linked to from there, if you liked the diagonal "Free Dmitry" design, but it still needs to be updated for tomorrow's rally. I'm not sure I'll be able to make it to the rally due to work commitments, but either Don or I will be bringing 1500 copies to SF tomorrow. Tabinda -- From clank at ai.mit.edu Sun Jul 29 17:03:15 2001 From: clank at ai.mit.edu (clank@ai.mit.edu) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Adobe violation of the DMCA? In-Reply-To: <007601c1186d$3a29bbc0$667ba8c0@palto1.sfba.home.com> References: <007601c1186d$3a29bbc0$667ba8c0@palto1.sfba.home.com> Message-ID: <200107300003.UAA20898@soggy-fibers.ai.mit.edu> Oscar Wilde writes: > For example, a local non-profit association to which I belong has > been publishing our *copyrighted* member directory in electronic > form as a PDF (created with a purchased copy of Acrobat 4.05). We > disallowed text selection to make it harder for people to extract > our names and addresses en masse and spam us with unsolicited > offers (and also because we *sell* our mailing list). Now we find > that anyone with the later version of the software can defeat the > digital content protections that we, as publisher, imposed on our > copyrighted digital work -- protections that are in principle no > different from those on Adobe eBooks. Very interesting... perhaps enough to run with. FWIW, Adobe's defense would probably be that Acrobat 5.0 has an economically significant purpose other than to circumvent access controls, and is not marketed for that purpose. (The 1201 proscriptions are on items which either: *) Are designed to circumvent *) Have only a limited economically significant purpose other than to circumvent *) Have no economically significant purpose other than to circumvent either a 1201(a) access control, or a 1201(b) copy control. Of course, "limited economically significant purpose" is in the eye of the beholder, perhaps a judge who may well be inclined to believe that the activities of large companies with executives in nice suits are more ecnomically significant than those of long-haired hacker types, as was the case in the 2600 DeCSS case). If you think this is a possible avenue for a defense (that AEBPR has economically significant purposes other than to circumvent, and was marketed with those purposes in mind), you may very well be right --- but that's ultimately up to the lawyers. rst From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sun Jul 29 17:16:17 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Adobe violation of the DMCA? In-Reply-To: <200107300003.UAA20898@soggy-fibers.ai.mit.edu> Message-ID: >>>FWIW, Adobe's defense >>>would probably be that Acrobat 5.0 >>>has an economically significant >>>purpose other than to circumvent >>>access controls, and is not marketed >>>for that purpose. Does the "part" that circumvents the access controls have an economically significant purpose other than to circumvent the access controls? Does that "part" "need" to be bundled in with Acrobat 5.0 in order for the remainder of Acrobat 5.0 to work? Is selling an access control circumvention tool in the same box, or on the same CD or running as part of the same overall software shell sufficient to sheild that tool from the effects of the DMCA? James S. Huggins From mw at themail.com Sun Jul 29 17:50:31 2001 From: mw at themail.com (mw@themail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FREESKLYAROV.ORG needs 1 or 2 editors Message-ID: <200107292049157.SM00361@mail.TheMail.com> I'll do the open letter/official statement editing if you still need someone. -aicra ****** Original Message ****** From: Jim Youll Sent: Sun 07/29/2001 04:41 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] FREESKLYAROV.ORG needs 1 or 2 editors FREESKLYAROV.ORG is now hiring ONE OR TWO count 'em TWO editors. > >Pay: FREE!!! but good for karma > > > >contact the author of this note... > >relevant experience will include copy editing and HTML publishing or at >least the ability to use a text editor! > > > > > >THIS IS PROBABLY ONE EDITOR: > >Open letter editor > >-- receive and format open letters we receive from the public for >posting > > > >Official statement editor > >-- locate, excerpt and link to official statements by well known >people/organizations > > > > > >AND THIS MAY BE THE OTHER: > >Case Summary Editor > >-- maintain the "what's this all about" front excerpt and internal >summary. maybe add a timeline. Update the record as things progress, >e.g. "to date, 12 national computing organizations including the ACM >have protested the arrest..." Requires keeping up with the news, 1-n >updates per week depending upon what's happening > > > >cheers > > > > > >-- > > > >target="_new">http://www.media.mit.edu/~jim > >research assistant . software agents group . e-markets sig > >mit media lab . cambridge, ma > > > >Free Dmitry Sklyarov ... target="_new">http://freesklyarov.org/ > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >target="_new">http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________________________ TheMail.com - Full featured premium email you can count on. Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ From kfoss at planetpdf.com Sun Jul 29 18:13:38 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Breaking the Law? In-Reply-To: <01072915551601.01058@bitworks> References: <01072915551601.01058@bitworks> Message-ID: At 3:55 PM -0700 7/29/01, Bob Smart wrote: >I'm not sure who "imported" the program. It's an interesting question, and >if it lands just one Adobe executive in the next cell over, I'll be >thrilled...but I won't be holding my breath expecting it to happen that way. It was not *imported* -- at the time Adobe purchased (to determine/verify that the program did what it was reportedly able to do) a copy of ElcomSoft's Advanced eBook Processor, it was being sold from the US-based server of shareware distributor RegNow. After an email from Adobe and on the advice of ElcomSoft, RegNow soon thereafter stopped selling the program. Eventually ElcomSoft moved its Web site to a Russia-based server presumably to avoid further cat-and-mouse games of their server suddenly going offline, thus disrupting sales of its other software products. rgds ~ Kurt -- ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Jul 29 19:14:43 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Legal addition to flyers In-Reply-To: <20010729172922.A514@foozle.turbogeek.org>; from jmd@turbogeek.org on Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 05:29:22PM -0500 References: <20010729172922.A514@foozle.turbogeek.org> Message-ID: <20010729191443.E1249@zork.net> jmd@turbogeek.org writes: > I hope to attend the Chicago protest tomarrow. I plan to add a notice > similar to the following to the back of my flyers. Thought some others > might like to integrate it into their own, or suggest alternate > wording. > > The idea is it's short, and shocking. Saying "Don't forget to read the > notice on the back" as a disinterested flyer holder walks away looking > for a trash can might get them to read the short notice. If it can > peak their interest, they'll read the front, too. > > > > +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | {3/4" red letter} NOTICE | > | | > | Persons attempting to fold, crumple, and/or spill coffee on this | > | flyer are in violation of The Flyer's terms of use. This is a | > | felony pursuant to Section 1201(a) of the Digital Millennium | > | Copyright Act. | > | | > | Violators are subject to five years imprisonment and fines up to | > | $500,000. | > +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > {small type} Ridiculous, isn't it? > > > > It's hard to form a good parallel between mangling the flyer and > copyright law's fair use rights in two sentances (earlier, longer > drafts made a very nice comparison), but it's more important that the > notice remain short, or no one will read it. What's the TPM? -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Jul 29 19:17:22 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Legal addition to flyers In-Reply-To: <20010729172922.A514@foozle.turbogeek.org>; from jmd@turbogeek.org on Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 05:29:22PM -0500 References: <20010729172922.A514@foozle.turbogeek.org> Message-ID: <20010729191722.F1249@zork.net> jmd@turbogeek.org writes: > +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | {3/4" red letter} NOTICE | > | | > | Persons attempting to fold, crumple, and/or spill coffee on this | > | flyer are in violation of The Flyer's terms of use. This is a | > | felony pursuant to Section 1201(a) of the Digital Millennium | > | Copyright Act. | > | | > | Violators are subject to five years imprisonment and fines up to | > | $500,000. | > +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ The more I look at this notice, the more I don't like it. It doesn't distinguish between the different parts of the DMCA and what they actually say. The joke flyers and signs that say things like "... siht daer nac uoy fi" are probably interpreted as strictly metaphorical by everybody, but the notice you're proposing cites a particular part of the law which obvious does not restrict that activity, and which, if it did, would _not_ have those specific penalties. I think it could be confused with an attempt to explain the actual implications of the law. -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe From badnewsbears at prodigy.net Sat Jul 28 21:22:15 2001 From: badnewsbears at prodigy.net (Yogi) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] dcm_america smoke screen Message-ID: <006901c117e6$0d631a00$73f2fea9@n6y3p0> The Association of American Publishers, which has come out in strong support of the Sklyarov prosecution, has around 300 company and corporate members. Adobe is a member, by the way, and I hven't seen any indication that they are using their considerable influence on the AAP. The membership list can be found at: http://www.publishers.org/home/abouta/members.htm If they take down their link (wouldn't that be cowardly), I will be happy to send you the list: (badnewsbears@prodigy.net) It might be better to send a little effort in that direction than waste time ;-) on an obvious smoke screen, namely the supposed dcm_America. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010728/595a55a9/attachment.html From badnewsbears at prodigy.net Sat Jul 28 21:27:47 2001 From: badnewsbears at prodigy.net (Yogi) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Send your feedback to MEMBERS of the ASSOCIATION OF AMERICAN PUBLISHERS Message-ID: <008101c117e6$d3740ec0$73f2fea9@n6y3p0> The Association of American Publishers, which has come out in strong support of the Sklyarov prosecution, has around 300 company and corporate members. Adobe is a member, by the way, and I hven't seen any indication that they are using their considerable influence on the AAP. The membership list can be found at: http://www.publishers.org/home/abouta/members.htm If they take down their link (wouldn't that be cowardly), I will be happy to send you the list: (badnewsbears@prodigy.net) It might be better to send a little effort in that direction than waste time ;-) on an obvious smoke screen, namely the supposed dcm_America. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010728/65bbb7e6/attachment.htm From kphil at hotmail.com Sun Jul 29 19:41:41 2001 From: kphil at hotmail.com (Phill K) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:31 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Salt Lake City protests??? Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010729/aa4810da/attachment.html From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sun Jul 29 19:54:04 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Send your feedback to MEMBERS of the ASSOCIATION OF AMERICAN PUBLISHERS In-Reply-To: <008101c117e6$d3740ec0$73f2fea9@n6y3p0> Message-ID: ======================================== The Association of American Publishers, which has come out in strong support of the Sklyarov prosecution, has around 300 company and corporate members. http://www.publishers.org/home/abouta/members.htm ======================================== A review of this list shows some members who, perhaps, would be more likely to lend an effort. These include Association of Research Libraries, Council on Library and Information Resources, OCLC Online Computer Library Center, many university presses, New York Academy of Sciences, etc. Or am I just being optimistic? James S. Huggins From mw at themail.com Sun Jul 29 19:57:54 2001 From: mw at themail.com (mw@themail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] federal prisons in Oklahoma Message-ID: <200107292257306.SM00361@mail.TheMail.com> Here are two federal prisons in Oklahoma: (has anyone thought to deposit some money at the jails so dmitry can get some envelopes, stamps, shaving kit, tootsie rolls, cigarettes to bargain with etc....? Can we look into this if not?) FCI EL RENO P.O. BOX 1000 Hwy 66 West El Reno, OK 73036-1000 405-262-4875 Security Level: medium maile Location: 30 Miles west of OK City I- 40 Country Club Exit, 2 miles north of Sunset Drive FTC Oklahoma City P.O. Box 898802 7420 South S. MacCarthur Blvd. Oklahoma City, OK 73189-8802 405-682-4075 Security Level: Administrative Location: 3 miles west of I 44 and 4 miles south of I 40 __________________________________________________________________ TheMail.com - Full featured premium email you can count on. Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Jul 29 20:07:16 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] federal prisons in Oklahoma In-Reply-To: <200107292257306.SM00361@mail.TheMail.com>; from mw@themail.com on Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 10:57:54PM -0400 References: <200107292257306.SM00361@mail.TheMail.com> Message-ID: <20010729200716.G1249@zork.net> mw@themail.com writes: > Here are two federal prisons in Oklahoma: > (has anyone thought to deposit some money at the jails so dmitry can get some envelopes, stamps, shaving kit, tootsie rolls, cigarettes to bargain with etc....? Can we look into this if not?) > > FCI EL RENO > > P.O. BOX 1000 > Hwy 66 West > El Reno, OK > 73036-1000 > 405-262-4875 > > Security Level: medium maile > > Location: 30 Miles west of OK City > I- 40 Country Club Exit, 2 miles north of Sunset Drive > > FTC > Oklahoma City > P.O. Box 898802 > 7420 South S. MacCarthur Blvd. > Oklahoma City, OK 73189-8802 > 405-682-4075 > > Security Level: Administrative > > Location: 3 miles west of I 44 and 4 miles south of I 40 There should be little doubt that it's the "Administrative" one; as I understand it, Sklyarov's status is "administrative custody". I would be surprised if he were held there long enough to receive any correspondence. (I don't have experience trying to contact Federal prisoners, aside from having written a letter to Sklyarov in Las Vegas last week, which probably never reached him. I'm just trying to piece things together.) If it's allowed, we will certainly make a concerted effort to visit him once he's transferred here, and be sure he's doing as well as possible under the circumstances. We already have some people (aside from lawyers and Dmitry Sklyarov's friends and family) calling jails in Santa Clara County regularly for status updates. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sun Jul 29 20:15:50 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ========================================= Suggestions so far are: 1) Copy controlled media 2) Usage controlled media 3) Crippled media (My suggestion) ========================================= I know that there have been suggestions since then. Is there a "current list"? James S. Huggins From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Jul 29 20:20:57 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Send your feedback to MEMBERS of the ASSOCIATION OF AMERICAN PUBLISHERS In-Reply-To: ; from FreeSklyarov@ZName.com on Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 09:54:04PM -0500 References: <008101c117e6$d3740ec0$73f2fea9@n6y3p0> Message-ID: <20010729202057.H1249@zork.net> James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov) writes: > ======================================== > The Association of American Publishers, which has come out in strong support > of the Sklyarov prosecution, has around 300 company and corporate members. > > http://www.publishers.org/home/abouta/members.htm > ======================================== > > A review of this list shows some members who, perhaps, would be more likely > to lend an effort. These include Association of Research Libraries, Council > on Library and Information Resources, OCLC Online Computer Library Center, > many university presses, New York Academy of Sciences, etc. > > Or am I just being optimistic? People keep joining this list and not having heard about the AAP statement and its aftermath. :-( So far, people have written to 8-10 AAP members and gotten statements from at least three of them distancing themselves from the AAP's statement. The USACM reply criticized the DMCA at some length. There have already been at least two calls for people to contact AAP members to let them know what's going on or ask them whether they actually support Dmitry Sklyarov's imprisonment. One of these calls was from the EFF and the other is mine, and I am continuing to keep track of correspondence with publishers: http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/publishers.html I know we've got people in various universities -- come on, write your university press, if it's an AAP member. We have actual grad students who could be _publishing_ through these presses sometime soon... -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From dmarti at zgp.org Sun Jul 29 20:21:28 2001 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010729202128.A22448@zgp.org> begin James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov) quotation of Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 10:15:50PM -0500: > Suggestions so far are: > > 1) Copy controlled media > 2) Usage controlled media > 3) Crippled media (My suggestion) Copy-restricted media DRM-infected media (to help the analogy of circumvention program to virus checker if anyone wants to make that.) -- Don Marti What do we want? Free Dmitry! When do we want it? Now! http://zgp.org/~dmarti Free Dmitry: http://eff.org/ dmarti@zgp.org Free the web, burn all GIFs: http://burnallgifs.org/ From branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net Sun Jul 29 20:31:36 2001 From: branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net (Branden Robinson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] LOS ANGELES: leafletting update In-Reply-To: <01072821302302.03571@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <20010729223136.A4926@deadbeast.net> On Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 09:30:23PM -0700, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: > And in the "suprise guest star" category, Kevin Mitnick showed up to > interview for the radio show he's doing for KFI 640. > > (I thought I somebody was putting me on when I asked who the guy was with the > tape recorder) Heh. Did you tell him his Kung Fu was the best? (Yes, I know someone else has since claimed credit for those voice mails.) -- G. Branden Robinson | Men use thought only to justify their Debian GNU/Linux | wrong doings, and speech only to conceal branden@deadbeast.net | their thoughts. http://www.deadbeast.net/~branden/ | -- Voltaire -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010729/6691a3bf/attachment.pgp From branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net Sun Jul 29 20:42:48 2001 From: branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net (Branden Robinson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] federal prisons in Oklahoma In-Reply-To: <20010729200716.G1249@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010729224248.B4926@deadbeast.net> On Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 08:07:16PM -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote: > If it's allowed, we will certainly make a concerted effort to visit > him once he's transferred here, and be sure he's doing as well as > possible under the circumstances. We already have some people (aside > from lawyers and Dmitry Sklyarov's friends and family) calling jails > in Santa Clara County regularly for status updates. I don't know how practical this is, but I just had an idea: Perhaps if the Bay Area protest group is large enough, you guys could set up a rotation so that one person every day or weekday goes to visit him. This could serve a few purposes: 1) Foremost, it would help keep Dmitry's spirits up and help him keep a sense of connection with the outside world, which is doubtless very important for someone who is being held unjustly. It would also give him a very clear sign that he's not going to be forgotten about. 2) Making such a committment would help keep the protest effort from fizzling out. 3) Such a thing might get the attention of local prison officers and officials, such that it becomes water cooler discussion at first, and perhaps eventually makes it into administrative reports. This kind of thing could help win Dmitry's freedom, as it would send a message to the DoJ that this problem isn't just going to go away. 4) I don't see how this could generate anything but sympathetic press -- very useful to combat all this moronic media subtext of "evil Russian hacker undermining the $American Way$." Just a thought. I realize this would demand a high degree of personal comittment from the people involved, and since I'm way over here in Indianapolis I'm not in a position to express disappointment in anyone if it's does come about. But if several people are in this for the long haul and have flexible lunch hours, it may just work out. -- G. Branden Robinson | Debian GNU/Linux | If God had intended for man to go about branden@deadbeast.net | naked, we would have been born that way. http://www.deadbeast.net/~branden/ | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010729/0f073a89/attachment.pgp From jmd at turbogeek.org Sun Jul 29 20:49:33 2001 From: jmd at turbogeek.org (jmd@turbogeek.org) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: <20010729202128.A22448@zgp.org>; from dmarti@zgp.org on Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 08:21:28PM -0700 References: <20010729202128.A22448@zgp.org> Message-ID: <20010729224933.A951@foozle.turbogeek.org> On Sun, 29 Jul 2001 20:21:28 -0700, Don Marti wrote: > begin James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov) quotation of Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 10:15:50PM -0500: > > > Suggestions so far are: > > > > 1) Copy controlled media I've seen quite a few sites who have standardized on this one, including The Register. It's similar enough to "Copy protection" to show the relationship, but changes the second word from what it does for Big Media ("protect" them), to what it does to everyone else (control their usage). And the biggest plus, "copy control" is catchy and easy to say. > > 2) Usage controlled media Similar to 1), although more acurate. Unfortunatly, it's neither easy to say or catchy. > > 3) Crippled media (My suggestion) While true, to the average consumer crippled is quite a bit overboard. DVD and such seem to work well enough for them. > Copy-restricted media Copying is supposed to be restricted in a capitalist country. This is not much better then the original "copy protected". > DRM-infected media (to help the analogy of circumvention program > to virus checker if anyone wants to make that.) Destination Release Mechanism? Whatever that stands for, it isn't very catchy ;) Plus, the public wouldn't buy the infection part. Too hostile to gain general acceptance. Repeal the DMCA, /jmd -- Jeremy M. Dolan PGP: 1024D/DC433DEE 494C 7A6E 19FB 026A 1F52 E0D5 5C5D 6228 DC43 3DEE From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sun Jul 29 20:57:19 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: <20010729202128.A22448@zgp.org> Message-ID: > Suggestions so far are: > > 1) Copy controlled media > 2) Usage controlled media > 3) Crippled media (My suggestion) Ideas from the little brainstorm session just held. Maybe these will help spawn other ideas. Fair Use Restricted Fair Use Impaired Fair Use Crippled Use Impaired Use Limited Read Restricted Ownership Limited James S. Huggins From david at lupercalia.net Sun Jul 29 21:05:48 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:32 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: ; from FreeSklyarov@ZName.com on Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 10:56:57PM -0500 References: <20010729202128.A22448@zgp.org> Message-ID: <20010730000548.A15285@lupercalia.net> On Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 10:56:57PM -0500, James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov) wrote: > > Suggestions so far are: > > > > 1) Copy controlled media > > 2) Usage controlled media > > 3) Crippled media (My suggestion) > > Ideas from the little brainstorm session just held. Maybe these will help > spawn other ideas. > > Fair Use Restricted > Fair Use Impaired > Fair Use Crippled > Use Impaired > Use Limited I like this one. Fair Use is a concept few are familiar with, but everybody can recognize and understand that they should have the right to use something they bought any way they choose, outside of copyright violations of course. It also covers the range of limitations, from copying to selling to Fair Use. > Read Restricted > Ownership Limited -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca/ I am the soul of nature That gives life to all the universe. From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Sun Jul 29 21:11:51 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:33 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology References: Message-ID: <3B64DE87.A849B3A0@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Unproductive format/media/etc. Seth Johnson "James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)" wrote: > > I know that there have been suggestions since then. > > Is there a "current list"? From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Jul 29 21:14:35 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] federal prisons in Oklahoma In-Reply-To: <20010729224248.B4926@deadbeast.net>; from branden+serrfxylnebi@deadbeast.net on Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 10:42:48PM -0500 References: <20010729200716.G1249@zork.net> <20010729224248.B4926@deadbeast.net> Message-ID: <20010729211435.I1249@zork.net> Branden Robinson writes: > On Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 08:07:16PM -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote: > > If it's allowed, we will certainly make a concerted effort to visit > > him once he's transferred here, and be sure he's doing as well as > > possible under the circumstances. We already have some people (aside > > from lawyers and Dmitry Sklyarov's friends and family) calling jails > > in Santa Clara County regularly for status updates. > > I don't know how practical this is, but I just had an idea: > > Perhaps if the Bay Area protest group is large enough, you guys could set > up a rotation so that one person every day or weekday goes to visit him. If my living and work situation will allow this, I already intend to try to set that up. There are certainly a lot of "if"s. I'm sure we'll have information on visiting policies pretty soon. My guesses are: various time limitations, searches, and a requirement to have government-issued photo ID. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Sun Jul 29 21:13:28 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Monday in Moscow (& Internet) Message-ID: <004601c118ad$ffff1300$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, All! This Monday, 30 of July, 11:00 Pacific Time, 22:00 Moscow Time, 18:00 GMT, we are makeing our first e-protest. Place to meet: Server: irc.2600.net Channel: #free-dmitry-msk People from other towns and countries are welcome also. We can help Dmitry to see freedom, Adobe to pay for it and DMCA to fail, no matter, from what country we are. Free Dmitry! Repeal the DMCA! - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Sun Jul 29 21:18:58 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology References: Message-ID: <3B64E032.D557C40E@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> "James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)" wrote: > > Is there a "current list"? Maybe this: Tony Abou-Assaleh wrote: > > > 1) Copy controlled media > > 2) Usage controlled media > > 3) Crippled media (My suggestion) > > 4) Access-restricted media > > 5) Access-limited media > > 6) Unproductive format/media/etc. > > 7) Disabled media. > 8) Supervised media > > The media comes with a supervisor -- a program that decides what to allow > you to do and what not. Disobeying the supervisor may result in > imprisonment. Sneaking away from the supervisor is in violation of > DMCA. Worst of all, you have to pay for your supervisor. > > On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, DeBug wrote: > > > Control-featured media > > (when manufacturer inserted control features in it) And this: Andrew Lawrence wrote: > > fair-useless media or for short useless media From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Jul 29 21:16:05 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:34 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Salt Lake City protests??? In-Reply-To: ; from kphil@hotmail.com on Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 08:41:41PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20010729211605.J1249@zork.net> It seems that the Salt Lake City protests are planned for Friday rather than Monday. Perhaps some leaflet distribution in between would help attract further attention. You can check this on the calendar at the freesklyarov.org site. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Jul 29 21:22:27 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [DMITRY-PLAN] Monday in Moscow (& Internet) In-Reply-To: <004601c118ad$ffff1300$0100a8c0@sharhan>; from ath@limm.mgimo.ru on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 08:13:28AM +0400 References: <004601c118ad$ffff1300$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: <20010729212227.K1249@zork.net> Ilya V. Vasilyev writes: > Hi, All! > > This Monday, 30 of July, 11:00 Pacific Time, 22:00 Moscow Time, > 18:00 GMT, we are makeing our first e-protest. > > Place to meet: > Server: irc.2600.net > Channel: #free-dmitry-msk > > People from other towns and countries are welcome also. > We can help Dmitry to see freedom, Adobe to pay for it and > DMCA to fail, no matter, from what country we are. > > Free Dmitry! Repeal the DMCA! I know that there was no suggestion that the e-protest will include illegal activities, but I wanted to re-iterate that for anybody who didn't see your original announcement. Illegal activities in "support" of someone in the judicial system can really, really hurt that person's case. Prosecutors aren't _supposed_ to mention third parties' activities, but in some cases they have found a way to try to connect someone with others who are doing illegal activities. This happened in a minor way in the DVD cases, where the plaintiffs described _in court_ threats and harrassment they had received. Let's just say that this didn't do the defendants any good (even though the defendants definitely had nothing to do with it). We know that Dmitry Sklyarov is a peaceful and law-abiding person. Courts don't know that, yet; if lots of his so-called "friends" are not law-abiding, what will they think? e-protest in general is a reasonable idea, and I wish you luck. It's quite helpful to have people continuing to get the word out. As you said, quoted in my .signature below, Dmitry Sklyarov had a peaceful mission in visiting the U.S.; he didn't mean anybody any harm, but only meant to share information. I hope all of his supporters will act in the same way! -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From jstyre at jstyre.com Sun Jul 29 21:24:04 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Send your feedback to MEMBERS of the ASSOCIATION OF AMERICAN PUBLISHERS In-Reply-To: <20010729202057.H1249@zork.net> References: <008101c117e6$d3740ec0$73f2fea9@n6y3p0> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010729210430.053b0f08@earthlink.net> At 08:20 PM 7/29/2001 -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote: >There have already been at least two calls for people to contact AAP >members to let them know what's going on or ask them whether they >actually support Dmitry Sklyarov's imprisonment. > >One of these calls was from the EFF and the other is mine, and I am >continuing to keep track of correspondence with publishers: > >http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/publishers.html > >I know we've got people in various universities -- come on, write your >university press, if it's an AAP member. We have actual grad students >who could be _publishing_ through these presses sometime soon... Forget not AAP member Springer-Verlag New York, http://www.springer-ny.com/. S-V the parent is one of the leading scientific/academic publishers, including publishing the proceedings of many prestigious conferences sponsored by orgs which, unlike USENIX and ACM for example, aren't big enough to self-publish. Though the parent recently was acquired by Bertelsmann, which has not exactly been a big DMCA opponent, there are no indications (so far) that S-V has backed away from its commitment to publish everything within its rubric which has merit, without regard to the DMCA. In other words, S-V NY is worth working on not only because they are an AAP member, but perhaps more important, to help reinforce that they should not be changing their own internal publication criteria to something less favorable to our more or less collective POV. -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From schoen at loyalty.org Sun Jul 29 21:28:38 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Send your feedback to MEMBERS of the ASSOCIATION OF AMERICAN PUBLISHERS In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010729210430.053b0f08@earthlink.net>; from jstyre@jstyre.com on Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 09:24:04PM -0700 References: <008101c117e6$d3740ec0$73f2fea9@n6y3p0> <20010729202057.H1249@zork.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010729210430.053b0f08@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20010729212838.L1249@zork.net> James S. Tyre writes: > At 08:20 PM 7/29/2001 -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote: > > > >There have already been at least two calls for people to contact AAP > >members to let them know what's going on or ask them whether they > >actually support Dmitry Sklyarov's imprisonment. > > > >One of these calls was from the EFF and the other is mine, and I am > >continuing to keep track of correspondence with publishers: > > > >http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/publishers.html > > > >I know we've got people in various universities -- come on, write your > >university press, if it's an AAP member. We have actual grad students > >who could be _publishing_ through these presses sometime soon... > > > Forget not AAP member Springer-Verlag New York, http://www.springer-ny.com/. > > S-V the parent is one of the leading scientific/academic publishers, > including publishing the proceedings of many prestigious conferences > sponsored by orgs which, unlike USENIX and ACM for example, aren't big > enough to self-publish. Though the parent recently was acquired by > Bertelsmann, which has not exactly been a big DMCA opponent, there are no > indications (so far) that S-V has backed away from its commitment to > publish everything within its rubric which has merit, without regard to the > DMCA. > > In other words, S-V NY is worth working on not only because they are an AAP > member, but perhaps more important, to help reinforce that they should not > be changing their own internal publication criteria to something less > favorable to our more or less collective POV. I am (when I have a job) a faithful Springer customer and have the highest respect for the material they publish. I always look forward to the "yellow sale", and I have a Springer math and a Springer CS catalog on my catalog shelf right now. But I suspect that one of their _authors_ writing to them would be better than a customer. That's actually why I'm putting off writing to various publishers whose customer I am... I'm hoping that an actual author may be able to write in. Scott Craver, your only publication that I have in a book is actually in that Artech book, not something from Springer. But you certainly seem like a Springer-worthy author. :-) Do you happen to have any forthcoming works which would be published by them, say in LNCS or something? Is this an inopportune time to speculate or inquire about whether Springer will publish your research? -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From jstyre at jstyre.com Sun Jul 29 21:48:06 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Send your feedback to MEMBERS of the ASSOCIATION OF AMERICAN PUBLISHERS In-Reply-To: <20010729212838.L1249@zork.net> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010729210430.053b0f08@earthlink.net> <008101c117e6$d3740ec0$73f2fea9@n6y3p0> <20010729202057.H1249@zork.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010729210430.053b0f08@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010729213559.053b0f08@earthlink.net> At 09:28 PM 7/29/2001 -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote: > > > > In other words, S-V NY is worth working on not only because they are an > AAP > > member, but perhaps more important, to help reinforce that they should not > > be changing their own internal publication criteria to something less > > favorable to our more or less collective POV. > >I am (when I have a job) a faithful Springer customer and have the >highest respect for the material they publish. I always look forward >to the "yellow sale", and I have a Springer math and a Springer CS >catalog on my catalog shelf right now. But I suspect that one of their >_authors_ writing to them would be better than a customer. > >That's actually why I'm putting off writing to various publishers >whose customer I am... I'm hoping that an actual author may be able to >write in. It would be great to have S-V published authors write, but I see nothing wrong with S-V customers writing. >Scott Craver, your only publication that I have in a book is actually >in that Artech book, not something from Springer. But you certainly >seem like a Springer-worthy author. :-) "Reading Between the Lines ...", the "Felten team" paper, would have been published by S-V had things not blown up at the Information Hiding Workshop in April. You know this, but if others don't, Scott was a major contributor to that body of work. > Do you happen to have any >forthcoming works which would be published by them, say in LNCS or >something? Is this an inopportune time to speculate or inquire about >whether Springer will publish your research? Not sure about Scott, but I do have knowledge of something else in the works, which S-V is considering publishing, and which is DMCA relevant. My apologies for being constrained from stating the details, its a sensitive topic right now, but you (and some other list members) know, as a practical matter, that my unsubstantiated word is good. This was one of the motivations in my prior post on this thread. -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Sun Jul 29 21:59:45 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:35 2005 Subject: WARNINGS REGARDING PRISONS [Re: [free-sklyarov] federal prisons in Oklahoma] In-Reply-To: <20010729224248.B4926@deadbeast.net> Message-ID: PLEASE read the following before trying to deal with ANY prisons: In the following weeks, if Dmitry is not freed, we should attempt to do AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE TO IRRITATE PRISON OFFICIALS. That means, in particular, PLEASE DO NOT START CALLING PRISONS YOURSELF. There are people, myself included, who will call around and figure out his location as soon as he's in CA, but if the prisons are swamped with phone calls from the thousands of people that are part of our effort, they WILL be pissed, and we WILL have a harder time dealing with them. Repeat: PLEASE DO NOT CALL PRISONS. SECOND ISSUE: Once the prison he is transferred to in California is known, do NOT attempt to visit him, as he may have very limited visiting hours. My research shows that a lot of the local prisons have limits at about 1-2 hours per prisoner PER WEEK. Since we don't even know if lawyer visits are included, we should NOT endanger his limited visiting time by visits from anyone other than the people whose presence is most crucial -- presumably his lawyers, EFF reps, and perhaps his family if they do choose to appear in the US. Repeat: DO NOT ATTEMPT TO VISIT HIM EVEN IF YOU KNOW OR FIND OUT WHERE HE IS UNLESS YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT YOU'RE THE RIGHT PERSON FOR HIM TO SPEND HIS LIMITED "VISITING TIME" ON. Please keep in mind that our collective goal is, first and foremost, to FREE DMITRY, and, based on the opinions of myself and several other people on this list with whom I have discussed the above guidelines, those guidelines are the optimal given our goals. Sorry for the ALLCAPS =) -- -alexf On Sun, 29 Jul 2001, Branden Robinson wrote: > On Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 08:07:16PM -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote: > > If it's allowed, we will certainly make a concerted effort to visit > > him once he's transferred here, and be sure he's doing as well as > > possible under the circumstances. We already have some people (aside > > from lawyers and Dmitry Sklyarov's friends and family) calling jails > > in Santa Clara County regularly for status updates. > > I don't know how practical this is, but I just had an idea: > > Perhaps if the Bay Area protest group is large enough, you guys could set > up a rotation so that one person every day or weekday goes to visit him. > > This could serve a few purposes: > 1) Foremost, it would help keep Dmitry's spirits up and help him keep a > sense of connection with the outside world, which is doubtless very > important for someone who is being held unjustly. It would also give him a > very clear sign that he's not going to be forgotten about. > 2) Making such a committment would help keep the protest effort from > fizzling out. > 3) Such a thing might get the attention of local prison officers and > officials, such that it becomes water cooler discussion at first, and > perhaps eventually makes it into administrative reports. This kind of > thing could help win Dmitry's freedom, as it would send a message to the > DoJ that this problem isn't just going to go away. > 4) I don't see how this could generate anything but sympathetic press -- > very useful to combat all this moronic media subtext of "evil Russian > hacker undermining the $American Way$." > > Just a thought. I realize this would demand a high degree of personal > comittment from the people involved, and since I'm way over here in > Indianapolis I'm not in a position to express disappointment in anyone if > it's does come about. But if several people are in this for the long haul > and have flexible lunch hours, it may just work out. > > -- -alexf From steve at theStarport.org Sun Jul 29 22:15:53 2001 From: steve at theStarport.org (Stephen R. Savitzky) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Two more songs In-Reply-To: Seth David Schoen's message of "Sat, 28 Jul 2001 18:41:16 -0700" References: <20010728184116.B1181@zork.net> Message-ID: I only joined this list a few days ago, but I didn't see these in the archives. Both of the two songs that follow were written to the same (rather inevitable, given the happy coincidence of scansion) tune (which in turn was originally a song about a trainwreck -- seems about right). Both have recently appeared in rec.music.filk ======================================================================= Dmitri and DMCA Lyrics Copyright 2001 Stephen Savitzky. All rights reserved. TTTO: ``Charlie on the MCA'' Please send donations to the Electronic Frontier Foundation in lieu of royalties if you record it. Now let me tell you the story of a man named Dmitri On that tragic and fateful day He left his home in Russia, caught a plane for Las Vegas, Got caught up in DMCA. And did he ever return? No, he never returned, And his fate is still unlearned. He may rot forever in a federal prison He's a man who never returned. Now Dmitri wrote a paper about Adobe's eBook format And its copy protection flaw And he wrote a little program that let folks recover passwords And make backups as allowed by law. But the Digital Millenium Copyright Act Is a law that says you can't invent, Produce, sell or describe any device or program Such protection for to circumvent. So instead of thanking Dmitri for his help with their software And for speaking freely what he'd learned, They called in the FBI and had Dmitri arrested He's a man who never returned. Now there's one more little detail about copy protection So ironic that it must be told: If you can't make backup copies it's _illegal in Russia_ Where Adobe eBooks can't be sold! Now you citizens and readers, don't you think it's a scandal How the people have to pay and pay? Fight for fair use rights, fight to free Dmitri, And to bring down the DMCA! Or else he'll never return. No, he'll never return, And his fate will be unlearned. He may rot forever in a federal prison He's a man who never returned. Please feel free to archive, perform, record, publish, and otherwise distribute this song. Feel free to add verses, but if you do make sure your poetic license is up to date. Never anger a bard, for your name sounds funny and scans to many popular songs. This document has been encrypted with TITE (Triple Invertible Transform Encoding) by encrypting with ROT13, exclusive or with the text of the U.S. Constitution, and byte-by-byte subtraction from the contents of the file /dev/zero, followed by the same operations in reverse order for additional security. Describing the implementation details of this intricate procedure, and explaining why the document still appears to be readable afterwards, is a violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! ======================================================================= Dimitri and DMCA Lyrics: Gary McGath, Copyright 2001 Music: "The Ship that Never Returned," aka "Charlie on the MTA" Permission is granted to distribute and perform for non-profit purposes, provided attribution and this notice remain intact. If you think you can actually make money with it, let's talk. If you don't know what this song is about, see www.freesklyarov.org for more information. Oh, let me tell you all a story of a man named Dimitri And the sad and fateful day When the code he wrote to make backup copies Fell foul of DMCA. Chorus: And will he ever be freed? Well, he ought to be freed From confinement that's unearned. He could sit for years in a federal prison, Be the man who never returned. Now Dimitri worked on a software project To convert Adobe files. But Adobe said, "You aren't allowed to do that. It would really cramp our styles." Then Dimitri came to the Land of Freedom, And what happened turned him pale, For writing legal software in his own home country He was carted off to jail. Then Dimitri said, "I didn't know that Russia Now belonged to the USA." But the Feds replied, "Our laws can cross all borders, So in prison you've got to stay." Now Adobe said it was fine to jail him Till they heard the protests rise, Then they figured out the PR was awful, And decided to apologize. But the Feds still say, "We arrested him proper, And that's hard work, don't you know. We should give our visitors a proper welcome, So we can't just let him go." Now you people everywhere, isn't it a scandal That our leaders act this way? Let's release Dimitri and restore our freedom, And repeal the DMCA. -- Gary McGath gmcgath@REMOVETHISmcgath.com http://www3.primushost.com/~gmcgath/ -- / Steve Savitzky \ 1997 Pegasus Award winner: best science song--+ \ / http://theStarport.com/people/steve/ V \ \ hacker/songwriter: http://theStarport.com/people/steve/Doc/Songs/ \_ Kids' page: MOVED ---> http://Interesting.Places.to/Browse/forKids/ _/ From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Sun Jul 29 22:16:40 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [DMITRY-PLAN] Monday in Moscow (& Internet) References: <004601c118ad$ffff1300$0100a8c0@sharhan> <20010729212227.K1249@zork.net> Message-ID: <00b401c118b6$d4ad82a0$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, All & Seth David Schoen! > I know that there was no suggestion that the e-protest will include > illegal activities, but I wanted to re-iterate that for anybody who > didn't see your original announcement. I specifically mention, that all participants of e-protest must NOT use nukers, exploits and other Internet weapons, especially at the time of the protest. Our aim isn't to harm Adobe & FBI. Our aim is quite different -- to show, that Dmitry case isn't his own case, but the case of freedom of us all. It touches freedom of creative people, who created cyberspace and Internet, and open and improve this cyberworld to everyone, includeing Adobe & FBI themselves. Who can make legal and organized actions in Internet to show their good will and strong tech background. Our task is to pass this message to Adobe -- "clean your own mess". If your actions put Dmitry into jail, pay his bail to get him out of the jail. Our task is to pass "FREE DMITRY" message to everyone, who can help him. We would like someone from FSF or EFF to read short online anti-DMCA speech, explaining why DMCA is the threat for the whole Internet. > e-protest in general is a reasonable idea, and I wish you luck. It's > quite helpful to have people continuing to get the word out. Thank you for your words, David. We already tested e-protest technology yesterday with 3 Moscow activists, and everyone was just in delight. We have a vision, that protest of XXI century will be in Internet. Progressive journalists, that have the same vision, can take interview with participants of the First e-protest. E-protest for Dmitry, against DMCA and agressive corporations. - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu Sun Jul 29 22:24:59 2001 From: cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] slashdot time. Message-ID: okay, it's that time again. time for *everyone under the sun* (yes, that means you, reading this) to submit stories to slashdot (or your favorite web log/news site) to get some last minute coverage and (hopefully) a few last-minute bodies. The story here, since last Friday (which I think was the date the last slashdot story ran) is *nine cities*! We've added five, I think, since last Friday. And there are events on Tuesday as well as throughout the week: look at the calendar on freesklyarov.org for more details. Plus both the EFF *and* the FSF are sponsoring the protests, now. See the front page of the gnu.org site, for example. Okay, write *your* spin on the protests and submit, submit, submit. If you've got any reporter friends, now is always a good time to make some last minute phone calls, too... Good luck today! --s ASW hack anthrax Albanian NORAD Marxist early warning Delta Force CIA Iraq Justice tonight Ortega $400 million in gold bullion UKUSA ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian ) -- "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970, minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4. -- [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/] #!/usr/bin/perl -w # 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz # MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout # arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order $_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5; $_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d= unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d >>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9 ,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t ^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271)) [$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval From branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net Sun Jul 29 22:26:39 2001 From: branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net (Branden Robinson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:35 2005 Subject: WARNINGS REGARDING PRISONS [Re: [free-sklyarov] federal prisons in Oklahoma] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010730002639.A7270@deadbeast.net> On Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 09:59:45PM -0700, Alex Fabrikant wrote: > PLEASE read the following before trying to deal with ANY prisons: There was absolutely no reason to CC me privately with this; I do not live in California and have no plans to travel there. In addition, I read the mailing list. PLEASE RESTRAIN YOURSELF FROM GETTING CARRIED AWAY AND SHOUTING AT PEOPLE IN REPLY TO POSTS THAT ARE MERE BRAINSTORMING AND DO NOT EVEN ADVOCATE THE TYPES OF ACTION YOU'RE CAUTIONING ME AGAINST. Screw up one more time and you go in the killfile. -- G. Branden Robinson | I must despise the world which does not Debian GNU/Linux | know that music is a higher revelation branden@deadbeast.net | than all wisdom and philosophy. http://www.deadbeast.net/~branden/ | -- Ludwig van Beethoven -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010730/6aba961d/attachment.pgp From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Sun Jul 29 22:34:32 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A Story Perhaps Peripherally Related Message-ID: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-072601netarch.story [excerpt out of context] "The Internet is an important cultural phenomenon, but that doesn't excuse its failure to comply with basic economic laws," said Thomas Nolle, a New Jersey telecommunications consultant. "The problem is that it was devised by a bunch of hippie anarchists who didn't have a strong profit motive. But this is a business, not a government-sponsored network." Others detect a hidden agenda: an attempt by big business to stifle some of the cultural empowerment that the Internet represents. James S. Huggins From kris at firstworld.net Sun Jul 29 22:48:47 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] updated flyers In-Reply-To: <20010729165831.B13168@shell9.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010729224613.012b4e08@pop.firstworld.net> At 04:58 PM 7/29/2001 -0700, Tabinda N. Khan wrote: >All, > >I've updated the Free Dmitry flyers to include information >about the DoJ meeting Friday. These flyers are not >location-specific and are meant to be flexible and can be >modified to fit your needs. I have posted HTML, Word, >PostScript, and PDF versions at >http://www.tabinda.com/freedmitry. Kris's version is also >linked to from there, if you liked the diagonal "Free Dmitry" >design, but it still needs to be updated for tomorrow's rally. Here's the flyer with a slightly different format. Comments encouraged. www.pigdog.org/dmitry/free_dmitry_ver_2.pdf Kris From klepht at eleutheria.org Sun Jul 29 23:52:02 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:35 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Two Things Message-ID: <87r8uyrjsd.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> So, first, I stopped by yesterday for the San Jose event, but being as I was about 3 hours late, nobody else was there. I want to find out how it went off! I stuck around for a few hours in beautiful downtown San Ho , passing out leaflets and wobbling the brutal heat. I probably gave out about 1-200, and people were very interested. A _lot_ of people had heard of the case before, and some said they had gotten fliers earlier that day. Second, we had the sign-making event in Berkeley today/night, and it was an unmitigated success. I think about 10-15 people came through the doors at one point or another, and we put together around 50 signs. We'll have sign-making stuff at the event tomorrow in SF, but this is a good start for people who don't have their own signs. (But still -- make your own sign if you can, eh? We need extras for "outsiders", etc.) I'm really looking forward to tomorrow. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From tom at lemuria.org Sun Jul 29 23:58:21 2001 From: tom at lemuria.org (Tom) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: ; from FreeSklyarov@ZName.com on Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 10:15:50PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010730085821.A29454@lemuria.org> On Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 10:15:50PM -0500, James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov) wrote: > ========================================= > Suggestions so far are: > > 1) Copy controlled media > 2) Usage controlled media > 3) Crippled media (My suggestion) > ========================================= > > I know that there have been suggestions since then. "restricted" "controlled" KISS principle. From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 30 00:02:20 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: <20010730085821.A29454@lemuria.org> References: <20010730085821.A29454@lemuria.org> Message-ID: <87hevurjb7.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "T" == Tom writes: T> KISS principle. Namely, "Wear lots of makeup and bite the heads off bats." ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 30 00:03:25 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Austin Message-ID: <87d76irj9e.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Hey, how'd the weekend go in Austin? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Sun Jul 29 23:52:34 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology Message-ID: How about 'FAIRly USEless' media? Free Dmitry. Repeal the DMCA. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ From sethf at sethf.com Mon Jul 30 00:13:56 2001 From: sethf at sethf.com (Seth Finkelstein) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] My letter to Senator Kennedy - final version Message-ID: <20010730031356.A2531@sethf.com> [Probably to be hand-delivered after the Boston protest] July 30 2001 Dear Senator Kennedy I am writing to you concerning the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), and the use of the DMCA to arrest and press criminal charges against Russian graduate student and programmer Dmitry Skylarov when he was in the United States for a conference. Because of the DMCA and a dispute between Mr. Skylarov's employer and a US company, he is currently being held in prison without bail and faces a possible jail term of many years. I urge you to use your position on the Judiciary Committee to examine reforms to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. The public should be able to exercise its traditional fair-use rights in copyright without fear of imprisonment. Please take the upcoming Senate confirmation hearings for U.S. Attorney Robert Mueller to be FBI Director as an opportunity to examine the conduct of the U.S. Attorney's Office in the case of Mr. Skylarov. Many organizations have called for the DMCA charges to be dropped against Mr. Skylarov so that he can be freed. Even the company which put the events in motion has now asked the prosecution be halted. I write to you with special credentials and particular concern in this matter. Just this year I received the award of being named a 2001 Pioneer Of The Electronic Frontier by the Electronic Frontier Foundation. I was profiled in the New York Times on July 19. The award was for hundreds of hours of unpaid decryption work and investigation in the service of free-speech causes. I will not take the time to go into details, except to stress that it involved decryptions which could have subjected me to civil and perhaps criminal liability under the provisions of the DMCA. My work, along with others doing similar investigations, was responsible for obtaining a narrow exemption from the Library Of Congress under the DMCA for performing those investigations. However, even so, other provisions of the DMCA may still subject me and others to civil and even criminal penalties. Such concerns are still a major worry of mine. Seeing a corporation able to instigate the arrest of a programmer, and a US Attorney's Office continuing prosecution even after the corporation has decided to ask for the programmer's release, is an extremely chilling effect. My own work provided vital evidence in support of litigation for a precedent-setting court case against censorship in libraries, a case which was argued in part by the American Civil Liberties Union. The extreme prohibitions and penalties of the DMCA will cause a widespread chill of technical research. We have already seen threats of lawsuits from industry lobbying groups against professors planning to present academic papers. Imprisoning programmers takes this potential suppression to a new and unprecedented level. As one of the few Senators who voted against the Communications Decency Act (CDA) in 1996, your principled stance against censorship of the Internet is well-known. The case of Mr. Skylarov demonstrates how the Digital Millennium Copyright Act has become far removed from any legitimate interests of copyright. If publishers are able to set in motion arrests of programmers, as part of their copyright protections, this will have a profound negative influence on copyright debates, technical research, and the fair-use rights of everyone. Sincerely, Seth Finkelstein -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer sethf@sethf.com http://sethf.com http://www10.nytimes.com/2001/07/19/technology/circuits/19HACK.html From SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com Mon Jul 30 00:12:38 2001 From: SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com (Rob McGee) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mainstream Support Message-ID: <20010730021238.A3176@hal> (I tried sending this yesterday but was having outgoing mail trouble -- I hope it's not too late to do something about it!) On Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 09:49:43PM -0500, James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov) wrote: > I asked: > Outside of the hacker and digital communities, what "mainstream" > organizations have, so far, said that they "agree"? > > Which ones might? In another thread someone else mentioned organized labor, and that's a good suggestion. I have a specific union to suggest which might come in handy as Dmitri is being transported: NATCA, the air traffic controllers union. I was close to that business myself some time ago, and I recall that the DOJ/Federal Bureau of Prisons had its own "airline" for their victims. Their call sign was "JUD" and I think they flew military-surplus junk like C-130's (4-engine turboprop cargo planes.) If Dmitri is in OKC now he'll likely be transported to SJC or one of the other area airports. NATCA volunteers on the lookout for JUD movements from OKC to the west could possibly tip us off in time to be able to get him a little show of support at the arrival. I'm sure Dmitri would appreciate that, if it can be made to happen. You might do better outside the gates of the place where he will be in San Jose, because you certainly won't be able to get close to the plane at the airport! You'd have to try to find out from the Federal Marshals where he's going to be accomodated during his extended visit there. Details: Of course someone could go to the OKC airport tower and ask to see their NATCA rep. Also, I believe OKC airport is in Fort Worth Center's airspace, which means that their computer system would be the first to know of the flight plan. ZFW is in Euless, TX, which I guess is close to the DFW airport. *DO NOT* bother with DFW tower; that is a separate facility which will not be able to help. (Some OKC departures may go into KC Center airspace -- for anyone in that area, ZKC is out in Olathe, a local call from all greater KC area.) I don't know much about west coast airspace, but there's a center at LA and at Oakland. I would guess that SJC is in Oakland's airspace. Find those facilities and any of the controllers there should be able to tell you which one you need. And of course SJC tower might be able to help some too -- if in fact they're bringing him there. You might find out that the JUD flights only go to one area airport, and the controllers at that tower might help. For being gov't employees, ATC guys aren't so bad. I found a significant minority of libertarians among them. Many of them are geek-like, if not actual geeks. I think you'll find them to be an audience which is recep- tive to our message. Some of them, however, may see themselves as "sky cops," and like all enforcer-types they believe in making everyone do everything by-the-book. The sky-cop mentality is more common among their management than among the controllers. But even some of the bosses are not so bad, because they all came from the controller workforce. I think something like this, to get a physical show of support to Dmitri while in chains, could help him immensely. The isolation and desolation of jail can break anyone, and you never know -- the Free Dmitri movement could very well hinge on Dmitri himself. And getting to talk to his boss or wife on the phone, while a very nice thing, is not the same as seeing a group of cheering supporters. Hope it helps, Rob - /dev/rob0 From pedro at tastytronic.net Mon Jul 30 00:14:31 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [sklyarov-chicago] Legal addition to flyers In-Reply-To: <20010729172922.A514@foozle.turbogeek.org>; from jmd@turbogeek.org on Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 05:29:22PM -0500 References: <20010729172922.A514@foozle.turbogeek.org> Message-ID: <20010730021431.D21910@tastytronic.net> Quoting jmd@turbogeek.org: > +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | {3/4" red letter} NOTICE | > | | > | Persons attempting to fold, crumple, and/or spill coffee on this | > | flyer are in violation of The Flyer's terms of use. This is a | > | felony pursuant to Section 1201(a) of the Digital Millennium | > | Copyright Act. | > | | > | Violators are subject to five years imprisonment and fines up to | > | $500,000. | > +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ Cool! I might say something like, "photocopy or redistribute" since that is clearly illegal if the information is copyrighted. Are Terms of Use viloations covered in the DMCA? pedro From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 30 00:28:33 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] O'Reilly on Sklyarov Message-ID: <87snfeq3j2.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Well, I know OSCON was on all last week, but I think it's time that we heard from Tim O'Reilly on the Sklyarov issue. He's an Open Source leader, a columnist on O'Reilly Network, and a publisher. He's probably got a good opinion to share. Anyone know an email address I can send a request to? "Tim, talk to us about Dmitry!" ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Jul 30 00:42:52 2001 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] O'Reilly on Sklyarov In-Reply-To: <87snfeq3j2.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010730004252.D9784@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> begin Klepht quotation: > Anyone know an email address I can send a request to? "Tim, talk to us > about Dmitry!" tim@oreilly.com, of course. -- Cheers, "Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills the first Rick Moen woman she meets, and then teams up with three complete strangers rick@linuxmafia.com to kill again." -- Rick Polito's That TV Guy column, describing the movie _The Wizard of Oz_ From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Mon Jul 30 01:17:50 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: WARNINGS REGARDING PRISONS [Re: [free-sklyarov] federal prisons in Oklahoma] In-Reply-To: <20010730002639.A7270@deadbeast.net> Message-ID: My apologies if the personal CC was misinterpreted as a sign that the message directed toward you specifically; it was the default behavior of my mailer (yea, well, pine...), and I did not realize it could be interpreted in such a manner. The caps were used for strong emphasis only, as well, to make sure that people following this thread note what I consider to be the particularly relevant part of my message. DISCLAIMER: This message is being sent with the "To:" header set to "". This does not imply the author's discontentment with said recepient, and is being directed personally towards said recepient only towards the purposes of apoligizing directly to said recepient, based on the information, evidenced below, that said recepient has been offended by my prior action. Any use of capital letters shall not be construed to imply anything other than compliance with grammatical rules, strong semantic emphasis, or an occAsioNal miSpriNt. Pine is (c) 1989-2001 by the University of Washington, and is intended as a mailer, rather than the subject of flames on this list. By reading this message, you agree to restrict any mailer-related flames to a more private forum. Pine is also an unregistered ROT-26 circumvention device. -- -alexf On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Branden Robinson wrote: > On Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 09:59:45PM -0700, Alex Fabrikant wrote: > > PLEASE read the following before trying to deal with ANY prisons: > > There was absolutely no reason to CC me privately with this; I do not live > in California and have no plans to travel there. In addition, I read the > mailing list. > > PLEASE RESTRAIN YOURSELF FROM GETTING CARRIED AWAY AND SHOUTING AT PEOPLE > IN REPLY TO POSTS THAT ARE MERE BRAINSTORMING AND DO NOT EVEN ADVOCATE THE > TYPES OF ACTION YOU'RE CAUTIONING ME AGAINST. > > Screw up one more time and you go in the killfile. From robin at eff.org Mon Jul 30 01:42:38 2001 From: robin at eff.org (Robin Gross) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Science Friday interview In-Reply-To: <01072711330802.16785@stumpy> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010730014122.028f5d30@pop3.norton.antivirus> Thanks! I appreciate your comments and am always interesting in hearing how I can improve this message. Thank you for your support and energy in this fight. All the best, Robin At 11:33 AM 7/27/2001 -0700, Roger Kramer wrote: >Dear Ms. Gross, > >I have been following and participating in the Sklyarov case since last week. >I was encouraged that NPR _finally_ woke up to the issue and interviewed you >on Science Friday this morning. > >You and the EFF certainly know more about the legal angles and probably how >to best spin this to the public than I, but I was disturbed by one oversight >this morning. > >I believe that there must be public acknowledgement that, yes, there ARE >illegal uses for the eBook Reader just as there are quite similar illegal >uses for a hairpin (lock picking) and absolutely any other tool or technology >you care to name. If this sort of full disclosure is not made, it sounds to >those capable of understanding the issue like we're hiding something. You >emphasize that there are legal issues, but I'd focus on the distinction >between "tool" and "intent." I realize there are certain >"breaking-and-entering" images we want to avoid, but blue-collar America, in >particular, may actually grasp the issue if Title 17, Section 1201 is >paraphrased as a ban on hammers and crowbars. Even the consumate layperson >could understand that's bloody absurd. > >Thanks for your work! >Roger Kramer >mailto://rwkramer@premier1.net >http://www.premier1.net/~rwkramer ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Robin D. Gross - Cyberspace Attorney @ Law Electronic Frontier Foundation 454 Shotwell Street, San Francisco, CA 94110 e: robin@eff.org w: http://www.eff.org p: 415.863.5459 f: 415.436.9993 http://www.eff.org/cafe http://www.eff.org/Intellectual_property/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net Mon Jul 30 02:09:53 2001 From: branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net (Branden Robinson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: WARNINGS REGARDING PRISONS [Re: [free-sklyarov] federal prisons in Oklahoma] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010730040953.A8031@deadbeast.net> On Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 01:17:50AM -0700, Alex Fabrikant wrote: > My apologies if the personal CC was misinterpreted as a sign that the [...] 1) You again failed to observe the Mail-Copies-To and X-No-CC headers in my mail; 2) You have a self-righteous attitude; 3) You have a lousy sense of humor (brevity is the soul of wit); 4) You use a non-free mailer. *plonk* Now please go back about the business of helping to free Dmitry, hopefully in a less didactic and imperious fashion. I won't be listening to find out. -- G. Branden Robinson | Convictions are more dangerous Debian GNU/Linux | enemies of truth than lies. branden@deadbeast.net | -- Friedrich Nietzsche http://www.deadbeast.net/~branden/ | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010730/6f7a4149/attachment.pgp From debug at centras.lt Mon Jul 30 02:24:29 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] What did he do IN THE US that was 'wrong'? In-Reply-To: <200107291726.f6THQoc05294@phil.hintz.org> References: <200107291726.f6THQoc05294@phil.hintz.org> Message-ID: <888327373.20010730112429@centras.lt> EAH> Berlin, 1939: EAH> First they came for the Jews, EAH> But I did not speak out, EAH> Because I was not a Jew. ... Then they came for my free will, And I sold my soul I think when computer science merges with micro-biology we will receive a chip implant that will not only be the only valid payment instrument but it will alter our genetics so that we won't be able to satisfy our biological needs without paying tax for it. Not just controlled / crippled / supervised media but we will get our body controlled /crippled / supervised -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Mon Jul 30 02:32:09 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] e-protest: web site. Message-ID: <003801c118da$852fe410$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, All! Site about Internet-protest: http://www.porsche.ru/dmitry/eprotest.html English and Russian languages. == == Date: 30 July Time: 11:00am PDT = 18:00 UTC = 22:00 MSK City: Internet Details: e-protest, http://www.porsche.ru/dmitry/eprotest.html Location: irc.2600.net #free-dmitry-msk Contact: hscool@netclub.ru == == - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From debug at centras.lt Mon Jul 30 03:58:48 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Compromise? Balance? In-Reply-To: <01072814392103.27999@bill> References: <01072814392103.27999@bill> Message-ID: <1411273901.20010730125848@centras.lt> WA> But, the internet gives power to the people. The internet is the great WA> equalizer, and that's why all of those lusers out in dot.com land are so WA> frustrated rent seeking. My vision of internet is as followes: All companies all over the world will put information on inet how their companies work and will provide decision making to their customers how one or other thing should be done. So we will see right on the internet how money flow and meet production process results -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From jim at media.mit.edu Mon Jul 30 04:38:45 2001 From: jim at media.mit.edu (Jim Youll) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology Message-ID: <200107301137.HAA20770@dns1.newmediagroup.com> Um, hate to get all pedantic about this, but KISS wore the makeup and OZZY bit the heads off bats. You're mixing metal-whores. >To: free-sklyarov@zork.net >Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology >From: Klepht >Organization: Eleutheria >Date: 30 Jul 2001 00:02:20 -0700 > >>>>>> "T" == Tom writes: > > T> KISS principle. > >Namely, "Wear lots of makeup and bite the heads off bats." > >~Klepht > >-- >klepht@eleutheria.org >http://www.eleutheria.org/ -- http://www.media.mit.edu/~jim research assistant . software agents group . e-markets sig mit media lab . cambridge, ma Free Dmitry Sklyarov ... http://freesklyarov.org/ From jtjm at xenoclast.org Mon Jul 30 05:10:09 2001 From: jtjm at xenoclast.org (Julian T. J. Midgley) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] UK Protests Message-ID: Those of us in the UK are planning to go ahead with protests outside the US Embassy in London on Saturday 4 August. If there is anyone currently subscribed to this list who would be keen to attend (or assist with the planning), and who is not currently subscribed to the free-sklyarov-uk list, we would be very grateful if you would join the party by subscribing at: http://mailman.xenoclast.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov-uk There's a general information page for the UK at: http://www.xenoclast.org/freesklyarov/ This will be updated with details of times and places for the protests once this has been finalised (current plans are 1200 Saturday). Julian -- Julian T. J. Midgley http://www.xenoclast.org Cambridge, England. PGP Key ID: 0xBCC7863F From ca2027001 at sneakemail.com Mon Jul 30 01:36:29 2001 From: ca2027001 at sneakemail.com (ca2027001@sneakemail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mainstream Support Message-ID: <135139401.996496600114.JavaMail.root@boots> Rob McGee SerrQzvgev@zxmail.com wrote; ---------------------------------------------- In another thread someone else mentioned organized labor, and that's a good suggestion. I have a specific union to suggest which might come in handy as Dmitri is being transported: NATCA, the air traffic controllers union. ----------------------------------------------- It would be great to be able to greet Dmitry at the airport. The only problem is knowing *which* flight Dmitry is on. Discovery had an excellent show "on the inside" about "con air" (as this prisoner transportation system is known). They go to _extreme_ lengths to not disclose when/where/how a particular prisoner is being transported. Not so much to stop geek protestors, but to stop jail breaks. Maybe it could be arranged for everyone to be at the courthouse for Dmitry's arraignment - even then I wouldn't be surprised for the Marshals to squirrel him away through a secret entrance the night before. They're afraid of us "hackers" you know... Phill K. From kastlyn at unixtribe.net Mon Jul 30 06:05:55 2001 From: kastlyn at unixtribe.net (Kastlyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What about use-restricted media? -=amie=- From paul at paultopia.net Mon Jul 30 06:22:23 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010730072150.031d7790@mail.paultopia.net> Prisonware Fascistware Corpoware Pigware -Paul -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com Mon Jul 30 06:29:01 2001 From: SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com (Rob McGee) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mainstream Support In-Reply-To: <135139401.996496600114.JavaMail.root@boots>; from ca2027001@sneakemail.com on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 08:36:29AM -0000 References: <135139401.996496600114.JavaMail.root@boots> Message-ID: <20010730082901.B3113@hal> On Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 08:36:29AM -0000, ca2027001@sneakemail.com wrote: > It would be great to be able to greet Dmitry at the > airport. The only problem is knowing *which* flight > Dmitry is on. Discovery had an excellent show "on the Maybe not. There are many possibilities. "Con air" is not yet so big that there are as many flights as a commercial airline would have. (OT observation: as the drug wars continue to increase the percentage of decent americans behind bars, that could easily change.) If we are alerted to a flight from OKC to SJC there's a high probability that Dmitri is aboard. If we have the tip -- there is a lot of time to act. A C-130 is not that fast, I think around 300 knots airspeed, and remember, there's almost always a headwind for westbound flights. Hours. Almost twice what it would take a jet to get there. Depending on the wind, maybe longer. With the tip, someone on the inside of the defense (EFF or his att'y's office) could call the prison and ask to speak to him. Can't do it? Why not? Can you have him call me ASAP? Why not? Even with some delays in passing the information around, it's quite possible that local folks could get at least an hour's advance notice to be there. And yes, it's possible too that they might deplane within view of a crowd of geeks. The controllers could probably tell you where and how the thugs unload their victims (it's certainly not using a modern jetway.) Thanks for the reply, Phill. This is really a suggestion for those on the inside to consider. And it's possible that I've said too much on a list which is almost certainly being monitored by the bad guys. :) 'Nuff said for now. I think I have an old PGP key on the servers listed under `echo v812@vanzr.pbz | rot13`. I can be reached at that address, or also `echo ebo0@ehaobk.ab | rot13`. (For the time being I am reading the mail to this address, although probably soon I will have procmail throw away the non-list mail.) Anyway, the NATCA idea is one for all of us. Being geekish with likely libertarian attitudes, they're naturally on our side. Ask your local NATCA about JUD flights -- it's a way to get a conversation going, and it might lead to some more support for your local efforts, too. Tip: if you have both an ATC tower and ARTC center nearby, chances are that the ARTC center is by far the larger facility. Another tip: I know we have list people from Albuquerque and Denver. There are centers in both places (ZDV is actually in Longmont), and Dmitri will be flown through either or both. Anyone from Utah? There's another center at SLC. Money-where-my-mouth-is disclaimer: I'm over an hour away from the nearest ATC tower, and about 3 hours away from the nearest ARTCC. I'd like to pitch in, but I can't do much in this regard. Hoping to free Dmitri, Rob - /dev/rob0 From proclus at iname.com Mon Jul 30 06:51:54 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Lessig in the Times Message-ID: <200107301351.f6UDpv229793@moerbeke> Jail Time in the Digital Age http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/30/opinion/30LESS.html Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From crism at maden.org Mon Jul 30 06:57:08 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mainstream Libertarian support Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010730065449.00a5d4b0@mail.maden.org> Well, OK, so Libertarians aren't quite mainstream, but non-geek, anyway. I've submitted an article to the Golden Gate Libertarian, the newsletter of the Libertarian Party of San Francisco, outlining why libertarians should support Dmitry's freedom. I've asked the LPSF's Executive Committee to officially support the effort, and have every reason to expect that they will do so. I've submitted a resolution to the Libertarian Party of California's board calling Dmitry's freedom. I will keep the list posted on any results from these actions. -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From prostoalex at hotbox.ru Mon Jul 30 07:54:50 2001 From: prostoalex at hotbox.ru (Alexander Moskalyuk) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Evil Empire is losing some cash Message-ID: <200107301454.f6UEsoE15035@www1.mailru.com> If you are a customer, call up their 800 support line and express your irritation with ADBE having started the whole thing. Let their bills accumulate. If you are an investor, call up the Investor Relations and imply that not only the management is evil, they don't know what they are doing either. Adobe says sales may slip http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/cn/20010730/tc/adobe_says_ sales_may_slip_1.html ... Adobe, which makes publishing software, said that its previous goal of flat year-over-year revenue "could be affected due to weaker-than-expected economic conditions impacting all of its product segments." Shares fell more than 6 percent on the news, down $2.80 to $40.25 in premarket trading on the Island ECN. ... Best regards, Alexander Moskalyuk http://www.moskalyuk.com/ ICQ 44065387 From eristic at lodz.pdi.net Mon Jul 30 07:53:33 2001 From: eristic at lodz.pdi.net (marek jedlinski) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: <20010730085821.A29454@lemuria.org> References: <20010730085821.A29454@lemuria.org> Message-ID: >"restricted" >"controlled" > >KISS principle. "Crippled media" gets my vote. It's more suggestive than the above two, and most people who've ever looked for shareware on the net will be familiar with the term "crippleware". .marek jedlinski -- /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign - Say NO to HTML in email \ / Homepage, PGP Public Key: http://www.pdi.net/~eristic/ X No ads, no nags freeware: http://www.pdi.net/~eristic/free/ / \ "This seems like a case where we need to shoot the messenger." (Charlie Kaufman on Cypherpunks list) From morganw at yahoo.com Mon Jul 30 08:04:21 2001 From: morganw at yahoo.com (Morgan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] misdirection of funds? (your tax dollars at work) Message-ID: <20010730150421.91362.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> Here's another reason to avoid chasing "IP" "criminals"-- the money would be better spend chasing "cyber terrorists." FOREIGN AFFAIRS Op-Ed By THOMAS FRIEDMAN "Digital Defense" http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/27/opinion/27FRIE.html "To his credit, President Bush will soon unveil an upgraded program to defend against cyberterrorism. But so far, the U.S. government spends only $1.8 billion a year to protect our webs, which, the F.B.I. will tell you, are already under daily hack attack by cyberterrorists." While you might not agree with spending money this way either, it's another argument against prosecuting Dmitry. The IP part of the F.B.I.'s CHIP units (Computer Hacking and Intellectual Property) will be a distraction of attention and funds away from more serious problems. -Morgan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From mellon at pobox.com Mon Jul 30 08:05:54 2001 From: mellon at pobox.com (Anatoly Vorobey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: WARNINGS REGARDING PRISONS [Re: [free-sklyarov] federal prisons in Oklahoma] In-Reply-To: <20010730040953.A8031@deadbeast.net>; from Branden Robinson on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 04:09:53AM -0500 References: <20010730040953.A8031@deadbeast.net> Message-ID: <20010730180554.19008@techunix.technion.ac.il> You, Branden Robinson, were spotted writing this on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 04:09:53AM -0500: > 1) You again failed to observe the Mail-Copies-To and X-No-CC headers in my > mail; > 2) You have a self-righteous attitude; > 3) You have a lousy sense of humor (brevity is the soul of wit); > 4) You use a non-free mailer. > > *plonk* 5) Someone who writes a message to a mailing list with hundreds of subscribers just to *plonk* someone publicly is *really* saying: "Look at me, I'm a smug, self-righteous jerk with plenty of attitude and a shortage of brains!" Now please go and insert your Mail-Copies-To: and X-No-Cc: headers up your ass. Sending a picture of yourself doing that is optional. -- Anatoly Vorobey my journal (in Russian): http://www.livejournal.com/users/avva/ mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton From debug at centras.lt Mon Jul 30 08:10:55 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] The Evil Empire is losing some cash In-Reply-To: <200107301454.f6UEsoE15035@www1.mailru.com> References: <200107301454.f6UEsoE15035@www1.mailru.com> Message-ID: <1316403699.20010730171055@centras.lt> AM> If you are a customer, call up their 800 support line AM> and express your irritation with ADOBE having started AM> the whole thing. Let their bills accumulate. AM> If you are an investor, call up the Investor Relations AM> and imply that not only the management is evil, they AM> don't know what they are doing either. If you are a freewarer or sharewarer, teach them how to do business AM> Adobe says sales may slip -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From kastlyn at unixtribe.net Mon Jul 30 08:20:38 2001 From: kastlyn at unixtribe.net (Kastlyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:36 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Yet another Song Message-ID: Here's one I think you'll all enjoy. To the tune of "The Star-Spangled Banner" O say can you see, by the monitor light (<-- is that too silly? =}) That a man is in jail for writing a program? It decrypts ebooks, and gives readers their rights, But the corporate thugs do not want that to happen. So a few years ago, they purchased a law That says making a tool for computers(or maybe fair use?) is bad. O say will you join us to send Dmitry away From the land of greed, and the DMCA? -with great regards to Francis Scott Key So, what do you guys think? =} Any comments/suggestions? Think I should write three more verses? =} -=Amie=- From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 30 08:28:25 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: <200107301137.HAA20770@dns1.newmediagroup.com> References: <200107301137.HAA20770@dns1.newmediagroup.com> Message-ID: <87itgaphba.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "JY" == Jim Youll writes: JY> Um, hate to get all pedantic about this, but KISS wore the JY> makeup and OZZY bit the heads off bats. It's not about who did what. It's the KISS _principle_ that's important. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 30 08:33:15 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mainstream Libertarian support In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010730065449.00a5d4b0@mail.maden.org> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010730065449.00a5d4b0@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <87elqyph38.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "CRM" == Christopher R Maden writes: CRM> I will keep the list posted on any results from these CRM> actions. Hey, that's pretty cool. If everybody did that much with our own non-geek organizations, we'd be swimming in support. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From jaed at jaedworks.com Mon Jul 30 08:42:10 2001 From: jaed at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: <20010729202128.A22448@zgp.org> References: Message-ID: At 8:21 PM -0700 7/29/2001, Don Marti wrote: >begin James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov) quotation of Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at >10:15:50PM -0500: > >> Suggestions so far are: >> >> 1) Copy controlled media >> 2) Usage controlled media >> 3) Crippled media (My suggestion) > >Copy-restricted media I'd avoid using the word "copy" to describe what these measures (technical and legal) strive to restrict. Copying is something that copyright holders do have a right to restrict, but the sweeping and unprecedented new rights granted by the DMCA involve *access*, not copying per se; accessing a copy of a work you legally own, without any intention or result of infringing copyright, is also illegal under DMCA if it can only be done by "circumventing a technological measure". "Copy-controlled" or "copy-restricted" understates the problem, I think. -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed@jaedworks.com http://www.jaedworks.com From debug at centras.lt Mon Jul 30 08:52:56 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13218924952.20010730175256@centras.lt> >>Copy-restricted media JAED> I'd avoid using the word "copy" to describe what these measures (technical JAED> and legal) strive to restrict. Copying is something that copyright holders JAED> do have a right to restrict, but the sweeping and unprecedented new rights JAED> granted by the DMCA involve *access*, not copying per se; accessing a copy JAED> of a work you legally own, I really do not understand what is the difference between copy and other use If you think you have the right to restict copying then logically you have the right to apply many other kinds of restriction (long long list of what users of your property can think of) -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU Mon Jul 30 09:11:40 2001 From: sacraver at EE.Princeton.EDU (Xcott Craver) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Send your feedback to MEMBERS of the ASSOCIATION OF AMERICAN PUBLISHERS In-Reply-To: <20010729212838.L1249@zork.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Jul 2001, Seth David Schoen wrote: > Scott Craver, your only publication that I have in a book is actually > in that Artech book, not something from Springer. The Information Hiding Workshop proceedings are published as Springer LNCS. They contain numerous papers on both the design, and analysis of attacks, of watermarking schemes. -S From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Jul 30 09:15:16 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Yet another Song In-Reply-To: ; from kastlyn@unixtribe.net on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 10:20:38AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010730091516.R1249@zork.net> Kastlyn writes: > -with great regards to Francis Scott Key So, Francis Scott Key wrote only the words, and not the melody, for "The Star-Spangled Banner". The tune is supposed to be based on an older song called "To Anacreon in Heaven". -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 30 09:22:11 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Press Releases? Message-ID: <20010730092211.S47551@networkcommand.com> Is someone going to issue press releases regarding the protests today? I think it could be a good idea. Too many people have very short media attention spans... Thanks, Jon From kastlyn at unixtribe.net Mon Jul 30 09:28:31 2001 From: kastlyn at unixtribe.net (Kastlyn) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Yet another Song In-Reply-To: <20010730091516.R1249@zork.net> Message-ID: Yes, that's right.. My apologizes for the oversight. =} -=Amie=- On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Seth David Schoen wrote: > So, Francis Scott Key wrote only the words, and not the melody, for > "The Star-Spangled Banner". The tune is supposed to be based on an > older song called "To Anacreon in Heaven". From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Jul 30 09:39:05 2001 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Yet another Song In-Reply-To: <20010730091516.R1249@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010730093905.E9784@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> begin Seth David Schoen quotation: > So, Francis Scott Key wrote only the words, and not the melody, for > "The Star-Spangled Banner". The tune is supposed to be based on an > older song called "To Anacreon in Heaven". A pub _drinking_ song, it should be noted. Apparently, they had rather vocally agile pub-crawlers, in those days. -- Cheers, "My case is resting so well, it's practically slipped into a coma." Rick Moen -- Alistair J.R. Young, in r.a.sf.w.r-j rick@linuxmafia.com From nick at zork.net Mon Jul 30 09:50:49 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Get out there! (and some stats, by request) Message-ID: <20010730095049.B14270@zork.net> It's nearly 10am PDT! What are you people doing? You should all be hopping on BART and heading to San Francisco! Get out here now you slackers! Freedom is not granted for the good intentions of well-meaning slackers! Get out to your local protests! Go go go! FREE DMITRY! Oh yeah, and this is roughly the 3,000th message (give or take) that this list has seen. I remain impressed with the activity. List growth has slowed, with the membership at a measly 724 members (up about 20 since I last checked at the beginning of the weekend), although the membership of the announce list has apparently grown with gusto. This list is also slowing due to the increase of activity on local area lists. The amount of Dmitry discussion has been growing rapidly worldwide! -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From pmasloch at earthlink.net Mon Jul 30 09:52:29 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] just a small idea Message-ID: I think that writing individual letters is not very effectful. Instead, we should come up with one letter which we can call a press release or protest letter of the Free-Dmitry Community. In this letter we should state our protest against the arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov and our concerns about the DMCA. There also should be a short explanation of section 1201 of the DMCA. We also should make sure that the letter is friendly and that also the 'mainstream' people can understand it. Then we come up with a date on which we will send out this letter so that we all can send it on the same day (very important). Everybody can send it to his/her local newspaper/radio/TV station/University/Congress/Senate/whatever you can think off. I believe that this action will show much more how big and strong the Free-Dmitry Community is and we really need to get the attention of the media. To find your local media just go to http://www.congress.org and type in your zip-code by media. It will tell you every contact you need. Same for Congress and Senate. Also contact informations can be found on the Free-Dmitry D.C. webpage http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca Just a small idea. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Mon Jul 30 10:00:36 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NEWS: Editorial in Minnesota Daily Message-ID: http://www.daily.umn.edu/story.php?date=20010730&storyID=2558 Free Dmitry. Repeal the DMCA. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ From robertl1 at home.com Mon Jul 30 10:17:47 2001 From: robertl1 at home.com (Bob La Quey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Do smart tags violate coyright? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010730101543.02641ec0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Microsoft is using samrt tags in IE 5.? to transform the words "virus protection" on the Symatech site into a link to McAffe ... does this violate Symatech's copyright? Bob La Quey From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Jul 30 10:16:42 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Get out there! (and some stats, by request) In-Reply-To: <20010730095049.B14270@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 09:50:49AM -0700 References: <20010730095049.B14270@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010730101642.T1249@zork.net> Nick Moffitt writes: > It's nearly 10am PDT! What are you people doing? You should all be > hopping on BART and heading to San Francisco! Get out here now you > slackers! Freedom is not granted for the good intentions of > well-meaning slackers! By the way, the rain (in San Francisco) has been very light -- weather forecasts suggest it's likely to stop by afternoon. I walked several blocks and barely got wet. I can't guarantee that you won't get wet if you come, but my impression is that the rain shouldn't interfere too much with your protesting experience. Current SF Gate weather: "Low clouds...fog and local drizzle...with partial afternoon clearing." In addition, if you come to the San Francisco protest and are concerned about rain, I will give you an EFF hat to keep your hair dry! -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From nick at zork.net Mon Jul 30 10:19:34 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Get out there! (and some stats, by request) In-Reply-To: <20010730101642.T1249@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 10:16:42AM -0700 References: <20010730095049.B14270@zork.net> <20010730101642.T1249@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010730101933.J14270@zork.net> Begin The ASCII Floating Head of Seth David Schoen quotation: > By the way, the rain (in San Francisco) has been very light -- weather > forecasts suggest it's likely to stop by afternoon. I walked several > blocks and barely got wet. It's not actually raining. It's just overcast and occasionally drizzly. This is in the Mission neighborhood. I doubt it will be wet downtown. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Jul 30 10:25:12 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Do smart tags violate coyright? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010730101543.02641ec0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com>; from robertl1@home.com on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 10:17:47AM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010730101543.02641ec0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <20010730102512.V1249@zork.net> Bob La Quey writes: > Microsoft is using samrt tags in IE 5.? to transform the words > "virus protection" on the Symatech site into a link to McAffe ... > does this violate Symatech's copyright? You should probably take questions like this to the cni-copyright list or the cyberia-l list. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From adunston at jetstream.com Mon Jul 30 10:22:52 2001 From: adunston at jetstream.com (Adrian Dunston) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Do smart tags violate coyright? Message-ID: >From: Bob La Quey [mailto:robertl1@home.com] >Microsoft is using samrt tags in IE 5.? to transform the words >"virus protection" on the Symatech site into a link to McAffe ... >does this violate Symatech's copyright? No. This doesn't violate copyrights, trademarks, servicemarks, patents, or trade secrets. It's just a dirty thing to do. -Adrian P. Dunston __ (sourceCode == freeSpeech) //Support the EFF. http://www.x-omega.com/shirtdept From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Mon Jul 30 10:16:43 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Do smart tags violate coyright? Message-ID: I think the copyright argument is far fetched, and just silly. We don't want copyright to apply to everything that happens to the printed word. More likely this is well covered by an illegal business practice principle somewhere. I mean, look who's perpretrating it. > Microsoft is using samrt tags in IE 5.? to transform the words > "virus protection" on the Symatech site into a link to McAffe ... > does this violate Symatech's copyright? > > Bob La Quey Free Dmitry. Repeal the DMCA. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ From rms at privacyfoundation.org Mon Jul 30 10:39:11 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why the DMCA is anti-security and anti-privacy In-Reply-To: <20010730102512.V1249@zork.net> Message-ID: <00d901c1191e$8dc202e0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Hi, The Privacy Foundation has just posted an article of mine on why the DMCA is bad for security and privacy research. The URL for the article is: http://www.privacyfoundation.org/commentary/tipsheet.asp?id=47&action=0 The same article should also appear on the MSNBC Web site later in day. Richard M. Smith CTO, Privacy Foundation http://www.privacyfoundation.org From proclus at iname.com Mon Jul 30 11:43:01 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (Michael L. Love) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] More PDF help Message-ID: <3B65AAB5.7010202@iname.com> For any interested parties, I've created some more instructions for creating custom PDF's with non-Adobe software. http://gnu-darwin.sourceforge.net/download.html Although the binary packages are specific for Darwin-based operating systems, such as OSX, the instructions are otherwise generally applicable. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From keith at indierecords.com Mon Jul 30 12:09:42 2001 From: keith at indierecords.com (Keith Handy) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Pig graphic Message-ID: <3B65B0F6.7643@indierecords.com> I made a DMCA-oriented cartoon based on Animal Farm, which everyone is hereby free to use as they wish. My only requests are: if you resize it and/or compress it, use a decent-quality imaging program and good aesthetic judgement; if you use it on a website, pamphlet, or other public display, please put a small "Image Copyright 2001 by Keith Handy" notice right below it. If you refer anyone else to the graphic, please link them to the .htm rather than the .png, just to make sure they see this request. http://www.indierecords.com/protest/pig.htm Thanks! -Keith From mw at themail.com Mon Jul 30 12:10:07 2001 From: mw at themail.com (mw@themail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Oklahoma city Message-ID: <200107301509529.SM00201@mail.TheMail.com> Is there anyone near this prison that can tell us if it is near a main road or off the road or? Is there anyone who is near this prison in OK city that can set up a protest near the prison? A protest at or near the prison (within legal limitations of course) with some press coverage, could 1. cause officials to speed up the transfer process 2. let Dmitry know we care __________________________________________________________________ TheMail.com - Full featured premium email you can count on. Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ From cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu Mon Jul 30 12:37:14 2001 From: cananian at lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [fairuse] New York action In-Reply-To: <20010730190358.76018.qmail@web13509.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Leonid Gorkin wrote: > Today, New Yorkers went to the streets for the second > time to demand immediate release of Dmitry Sklyarov great. make sure this writeup makes it up on the web somewhere and then mail us a URL and we'll put together a "how the rallies went" page on freesklyarov with this information in it. --s (for freesklyarov.org) PLO assassination ASW RUCKUS Moscow security BATF cracking assassination politics Bejing AP SDI Ft. Bragg Kojarena North Korea smuggle assassinate Castro ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian ) -- "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970, minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4. -- [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/] #!/usr/bin/perl -w # 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz # MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout # arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order $_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5; $_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d= unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d >>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9 ,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t ^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271)) [$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval From ath at limm.mgimo.ru Mon Jul 30 12:45:38 2001 From: ath at limm.mgimo.ru (Ilya V. Vasilyev) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] e-protest: SUCCESS! Message-ID: <007901c11930$391d2320$0100a8c0@sharhan> Hi, All! Today, from 22:00 to 23:30 MSK we have an excellent e-protest, the first in the Internet! We expected 10 people, but had 12. Neally all were from Russia, not only from Moscow. Nobody did extremist things, our actions were *completely* legal and harmless. We picket Adobe web site, then Adobe web-forum, that devoted to Adobe eBook Reader, then went for FBI web site. E-protest show us, that Internet community VERY dislike Adobe and FBI actions. Some people really wanted their blood. :( But all e-protest was well oranized (for the first one) and, as I already said, everything was completely legal and fine. People really enjoy new form of protest. I think, we will repeat e-protests until Dmitry will get free. If you want more information about first e-protest, you can contact me. Free Dmitry! Repeal the DMCA! - - - Ilya V. Vasilyev Civil Hackers' School Moscow Center +7(095)162-4767 http://server23.net/user/ath/ From ben at kalifornia.com Mon Jul 30 13:13:03 2001 From: ben at kalifornia.com (Ben Ford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [sklyarov-chicago] Legal addition to flyers References: <20010729172922.A514@foozle.turbogeek.org> <20010730021431.D21910@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: <3B65BFCF.7070603@kalifornia.com> Peter A. Peterson II wrote: >Quoting jmd@turbogeek.org: > >> +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ >> | {3/4" red letter} NOTICE | >> | | >> | Persons attempting to fold, crumple, and/or spill coffee on this | >> | flyer are in violation of The Flyer's terms of use. This is a | >> | felony pursuant to Section 1201(a) of the Digital Millennium | >> | Copyright Act. | >> | | >> | Violators are subject to five years imprisonment and fines up to | >> | $500,000. | >> +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ >> > >Cool! I might say something like, "photocopy or redistribute" since that >is clearly illegal if the information is copyrighted. > I wouldn't. Some people might believe it and we'd lose out on some distribution! -b From tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca Mon Jul 30 13:22:44 2001 From: tabouass at math.uwaterloo.ca (Tony Abou-Assaleh) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] e-protest: idea In-Reply-To: <007901c11930$391d2320$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: Here is an idea for the next e-protest: We continue to have an online meeting place as we did today, which will be our assembly place and provide us with fast communication. From there, we pick an online forum/message board, preferably belonging to big organization/corporation and start a massive discussion there so that anyone visiting that page will know about our protest. Adobe has a forum, but you must register to post: http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?18@199.gnh3aQy1dbN^0@14@.ee6b280 We could also visit "dense" chat rooms on various networks for about 15 mins (longer time may cause inconvenience for users.. we probably don't want that). TAA ----------------------------------------------------- Tony Abou-Assaleh Graduate Student, Department of Computer Science University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, Canada, N2L 3G1 Office: DC2503 Phone: (519) 888-4567 Ext. 3399 Email: taa@acm.org -----------------------[THE END]--------------------- From drumz at best.com Mon Jul 30 13:58:56 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Mainstream Libertarian support In-Reply-To: <87elqyph38.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> from Klepht at "Jul 30, 1 08:33:15 am" Message-ID: <200107302058.NAA12186@shell3.ba.best.com> Klepht writes: > Hey, that's pretty cool. If everybody did that much with our own > non-geek organizations, we'd be swimming in support. Definitely. In addition to trying to enlist the support of various libertarian groups, I've been talking it up with various people involved in drug-policy reform. Response has been mixed. I've gotten a few comments along the lines of, "That's a stupid law, and I wish you the best of luck getting one innocent man out of prison -- but as you're aware, there are other stupid laws that have thousands of innocent people in prison." (A point which it's hard for me to deny.) But I've also gotten a few nibbles from people who have been concerned enought to spare a few moments and take action. If you're respected in particular "non-geek" circles, I can't overstate the value of letting other members of those circles know that you're concerned about this case -- and, more importantly, why. They'll get over it being "off-topic" long before Dmitry gets out of prison. Ethan From vadim at xcf.berkeley.edu Mon Jul 30 14:37:18 2001 From: vadim at xcf.berkeley.edu (Vadim Kogan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] SF Protest pictures and such Message-ID: <20010730143718.F20986@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> Check out the pictures from the SF Protest at http://dmitry.csua.berkeley.edu. If you have some pictures to share send mail to dmitry-sf@hkn.berkeley.edu. Vadim. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010730/9699bde6/attachment.pgp From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 30 14:48:32 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] We Rock! Message-ID: <8766caay1b.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Well, we managed to pull off a -very- fine event here in San Francisco today. Initial head count as we started the march was 160, which made a pretty formidable group walking through the streets of San Francisco. (Having the SFPD lead our march probably looked pretty cool, too.) We had speeches by Seth Schoen and Robin of the EFF, gave out a ton of flyers, made a lot of noise, and burned out our voices. The press was out in full force, and we got serious attention. I can't wait to see pictures from the event. Congratulations and thanks to everyone who made it, and especially to people who brought friends or coworkers. We have to keep up the pressure and let the US Attorney know that it's time to drop this bad case. Hopefully Mr. Shapiro heard us yelling, "Drop the charges!" and is thinking about it hard right now. Free Dmitry, ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From warthawg at ecpi.com Mon Jul 30 15:00:06 2001 From: warthawg at ecpi.com (Joe Barr) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] test Message-ID: <20010730170006.0926caf9.warthawg@ecpi.com> test -- #=======================================================# # Petition: http://www.varlinux.org/article.php?sid=307 # #=======================================================# From tom at thinkpix.com Mon Jul 30 15:00:59 2001 From: tom at thinkpix.com (tom moore) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] SF Protest pictures and such References: <20010730143718.F20986@scam.xcf.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <022b01c11943$20f9f580$3e203b40@PRODUCTION> Is it just me, or does this look less like a protest and more like a geeks-with-guns convention? Of course, maybe it was just a very enthusiastic protest :-) From nick at zork.net Mon Jul 30 15:11:01 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] test In-Reply-To: <20010730170006.0926caf9.warthawg@ecpi.com>; from warthawg@ecpi.com on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 05:00:06PM -0500 References: <20010730170006.0926caf9.warthawg@ecpi.com> Message-ID: <20010730151101.K14270@zork.net> Begin Joe Barr quotation: > test You failed. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From krw5 at qwest.net Mon Jul 30 15:11:48 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [sklyarov-chicago] Legal addition to flyers In-Reply-To: <3B65BFCF.7070603@kalifornia.com> References: <20010729172922.A514@foozle.turbogeek.org> <20010730021431.D21910@tastytronic.net> <3B65BFCF.7070603@kalifornia.com> Message-ID: <01073015114802.26152@stumpy> On Monday 30 July 2001 13:13, you wrote: > Peter A. Peterson II wrote: > >Quoting jmd@turbogeek.org: > >> +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ > >> > >> | {3/4" red letter} NOTICE | > >> | > >> | Persons attempting to fold, crumple, and/or spill coffee on this | > >> | flyer are in violation of The Flyer's terms of use. This is a | > >> | felony pursuant to Section 1201(a) of the Digital Millennium | > >> | Copyright Act. | > >> | > >> | Violators are subject to five years imprisonment and fines up to | > >> | $500,000. | > >> > >> +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > Uh, I don't see how even the most skilled wordsmith could interpret 1201(a) to imply the above. We'll lose credibility if we stretch things to the breaking point and are called on it. ...But maybe I'm missing something in 1201(a)? -rk From nick at zork.net Mon Jul 30 16:14:46 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] YAA (Yet ANother Analogy) Message-ID: <20010730161446.T14270@zork.net> I know we're all sick and tired of strained analogies, but Peter Peterson and I were just chatting on the phone trying to find a good way to tell people about the case. 1: It's like a bartender in Alberta, Canada, where the drinking age is 18, coming to the US and being arrested for serving alcohol to those under 21. 2: It's like an author of a Web site on democracy going to China and being arrested for distributing subversive literature. These are all "it's legal in his home country" stories. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From mickeym at mindspring.com Mon Jul 30 16:25:25 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (mickeym) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [sklyarov-chicago] Legal addition to flyers References: <20010729172922.A514@foozle.turbogeek.org> <20010730021431.D21910@tastytronic.net> <3B65BFCF.7070603@kalifornia.com> <01073015114802.26152@stumpy> Message-ID: <3B65ECE4.FA28F178@mindspring.com> Maybe if the paper were folded in half to begin with, then taped. Then state that to open it without permission... mickeym Roger Kramer wrote: > On Monday 30 July 2001 13:13, you wrote: > > Peter A. Peterson II wrote: > > >Quoting jmd@turbogeek.org: > > >> +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > >> > > >> | {3/4" red letter} NOTICE | > > >> | > > >> | Persons attempting to fold, crumple, and/or spill coffee on this | > > >> | flyer are in violation of The Flyer's terms of use. This is a | > > >> | felony pursuant to Section 1201(a) of the Digital Millennium | > > >> | Copyright Act. | > > >> | > > >> | Violators are subject to five years imprisonment and fines up to | > > >> | $500,000. | > > >> > > >> +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > > > > Uh, I don't see how even the most skilled wordsmith could interpret 1201(a) > to imply the above. We'll lose credibility if we stretch things to the > breaking point and are called on it. ...But maybe I'm missing something in > 1201(a)? > > -rk > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Mon Jul 30 16:30:00 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>>Crippled media" gets my vote. It's more >>>suggestive than the above two, and >>>most people who've ever looked for >>>shareware on the net will be familiar >>>with the term "crippleware". Which raises an interesting question: who needs to understand the term. When my little group did the brainstorming that led to the short list I posted (use impaired, read restricted, etc.), the objective was to develop a term that the "common man" might understand. Are we attempting to find a term that technoids will understand? Or, are we attempting to find a term that the general media will adopt as their "standard" instead of the existing standard of "copy controlled"? If it is #2, then the term must be one that the general media person can both relate to and feel comfortable using. What is the test for the "best" term? I don't have an answer; I'm not even sure I'm asking the right questions. James S. Huggins From neale at woozle.org Mon Jul 30 16:32:05 2001 From: neale at woozle.org (Neale Pickett) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [sklyarov-chicago] Legal addition to flyers In-Reply-To: <3B65ECE4.FA28F178@mindspring.com> References: <20010729172922.A514@foozle.turbogeek.org> <20010730021431.D21910@tastytronic.net> <3B65BFCF.7070603@kalifornia.com> <01073015114802.26152@stumpy> <3B65ECE4.FA28F178@mindspring.com> Message-ID: I think you're on to something here. Print up flashy little fliers saying "WARNING: the information contained in this leaflet is copyrighted. Opening this leaflet, or passing it on to another person, is a federal crime punishable by imprisonment and fines up to $50,000." Then, on the inside, something like "wouldn't it be scary if it was this easy to break the law? It already is! Blah blah blah" That would be a *great* hook, especially if done in ominous big brother style by a good graphic designer. mickeym writes: > Maybe if the paper were folded in half to begin with, then taped. Then state > that to open it without permission... > mickeym > Roger Kramer wrote: >> On Monday 30 July 2001 13:13, you wrote: >> > Peter A. Peterson II wrote: >> > >Quoting jmd@turbogeek.org: >> > >> +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ >> > >> >> > >> | {3/4" red letter} NOTICE | >> > >> | >> > >> | Persons attempting to fold, crumple, and/or spill coffee on this | >> > >> | flyer are in violation of The Flyer's terms of use. This is a | >> > >> | felony pursuant to Section 1201(a) of the Digital Millennium | >> > >> | Copyright Act. | >> > >> | >> > >> | Violators are subject to five years imprisonment and fines up to | >> > >> | $500,000. | >> > >> >> > >> +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ >> > > >> >> Uh, I don't see how even the most skilled wordsmith could interpret 1201(a) >> to imply the above. We'll lose credibility if we stretch things to the >> breaking point and are called on it. ...But maybe I'm missing something in >> 1201(a)? >> >> -rk >> >> _______________________________________________ >> free-sklyarov mailing list >> free-sklyarov@zork.net >> http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From pedro at tastytronic.net Mon Jul 30 16:59:22 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Protest Report Message-ID: <20010730185922.G21910@tastytronic.net> Chicago's leafletting today went well, again passing out around 1,000 flyers with about 20 people (a little less than the first one). All in all, pretty good. Many more people seemed to know about the situation, although it's still frustrating that afaik, no Chicago news outlet has reported on the Sklyarov case. We'll probably take a week or two off -- I think that we can organize a better, more coherent protest as well as muster up more returners (we had about half totally new people today) if we make a little breathing room before the next protest. Additionally, our next protest will hopefully be more of an actual protest as opposed to a leafletting campaign, although I had a cool idea -- instead of getting one plaza in a place like downtown Chicago, get one guy on as many adjacent streetcorners as possible -- visibility at every crosswalk. *shrug* Taking some time off may help in coordinating some better media trolling. Anyway, a lot more people in Chicago now know about the situation with Sklyarov. Chicago area information can be found at: http://two-bit.ufo.chicago.il.us/free-sklyarov/ pedro -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- FBI has imprisioned a Russian software engineer for promoting and teaching the concept of "fair use". Read more: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 30 17:16:52 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:38 2005 Subject: Next Event? (was Re: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Protest Report) In-Reply-To: <20010730185922.G21910@tastytronic.net> References: <20010730185922.G21910@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: <87elqyc5qj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "PAP" == Peter A Peterson writes: PAP> We'll probably take a week or two off -- I think that we can PAP> organize a better, more coherent protest as well as muster up PAP> more returners (we had about half totally new people today) PAP> if we make a little breathing room before the next PAP> protest. Talking today after the event, some of us here in SF think we can make an _even_bigger_ event with a little more lead time (e.g., more than 3 business days). None of us want him to be in prison that long, but it's probably the best to start planning around that kind of lead time. Of course, the challenge is to keep Dmitry in the public eye during that time. Perhaps doing some work to get statements from prominent friendly organizations over those N weeks (e.g., American Library Association, academic freedom organizations, ACLU, Amnesty) would keep Dmitry's name in the news until the next big event. As usual, it seems like we make more of a splash when we synch up our events across the country. I'm wondering if maybe setting up an IRC-based "global summit" of protest groups (maybe on Wednesday night?) to pick a good date say 2-3 weeks from now would make sense. Also, I think there's opportunities for smaller events -- leafletting, hitting legislators' offices, etc. -- in that time, too. Comments? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 30 17:22:35 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] DoJ 'will prosecute Russian hacker Message-ID: <20010730172235.C52991@networkcommand.com> DoJ 'will prosecute Russian hacker http://www.vnunet.com/News/1124305 Good quotes from @Stake and Bruce Schneier. From pedro at tastytronic.net Mon Jul 30 17:30:14 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Some Chicago media coverage... Message-ID: <20010730193014.K21910@tastytronic.net> Hey all, I have been saying that there has been no media coverage in Chicago. This is not entirely true. http://www.suntimes.com/output/tech/cst-fin-hack26.html http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dsnews/196nd5.htm Thanks to Alex Fabrikant. pedro -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- FBI has imprisioned a Russian software engineer for promoting and teaching the concept of "fair use". Read more: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From eristic at lodz.pdi.net Mon Jul 30 17:33:46 2001 From: eristic at lodz.pdi.net (marek jedlinski) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:30:00 -0500, James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov) wrote: > >>>Crippled media" gets my vote. It's more > >>>suggestive than the above two, and > >>>most people who've ever looked for > >>>shareware on the net will be familiar > >>>with the term "crippleware". > [...] >Are we attempting to find a term that technoids will understand? I think not, they probably already do. >Or, are we >attempting to find a term that the general media will adopt as their >"standard" instead of the existing standard of "copy controlled"? If it is >#2, then the term must be one that the general media person can both relate >to and feel comfortable using. I realize that the term "crippled" may be too emotionally charged to gain a media acceptance. OTOH, it drives the point right across. "Control" can be a good thing, depending on context; you might end up havinig to explain why in this case the "control" is wrong. But if you say that foo is crippled, there will be no ambiguity about the meaning; you can only be asked why or how. .marek -- /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign - Say NO to HTML in email \ / Homepage, PGP Public Key: http://www.pdi.net/~eristic/ X No ads, no nags freeware: http://www.pdi.net/~eristic/free/ / \ "Invalid thought detected. Close all mental processes and restart body." From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 30 17:40:10 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Elinor Is the Rock Message-ID: <87r8uyaq39.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Man, this is one sharp journalist: http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010730/n303480_2.html ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From bobds at blorch.org Mon Jul 30 17:46:58 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: <13218924952.20010730175256@centras.lt> References: <13218924952.20010730175256@centras.lt> Message-ID: <01073017465800.05134@bitworks> On Monday 30 July 2001 08:52, you wrote: > I really do not understand what is the difference between copy and other > use > > If you think you have the right to restict copying then logically > you have the right to apply many other kinds of restriction > (long long list of what users of your property can think of) Logically, perhaps--but historically, no. There has traditionally been a distinction between copying and use, and now with DMCA that distinction has been erased. That's a pretty major shift in approach, and it appears that AT BEST the shift was done without carefully thinking it through. Upending well-established, longstanding legal tradition is not something to be undertaken on a whim and certainly not without careful analysis of the implications of the change--but that's exactly what has happened here. And speaking of the consequences of tampering with longstanding historical tradition, I can't help noticing that the whole CONCEPT of "intellectual property" is, in the overall scale of history, quite a recent one. For thousands of years, if you heard a song and then sang it yourself the next day, or if you heard a joke and then repeated it to someone else, you didn't owe anybody any payment for the material (maybe you had to buy dinner for the original performer, but there was no concept of "royalties" or "residuals" involved). Great stories were told and retold by generations of bards, and that period of human history gave us the Golden Age classics of ancient Greece, Beowulf and Gilgamesh and the Mabinogion and the Song of Roland...some of the most magnificent art and music that has ever been produced, and a flowering of intellectual and creative effort that led DIRECTLY to the Renaissance and all the artistic and creative glory of the modern world. Now that we have strict "intellectual property" regulations, we have...what? Baywatch? Boy bands? It's not at all clear to me that this modern innovation of "copyright" is at all beneficial or desirable, other than to parasites who think they're entitled to make a living by selling other people's work while reserving the greater share of the proceeds for themselves and only dribbling out the bare minimum to the people who actually wrote and painted and composed the material. But hey, maybe that's just me and my personal inability to accept change. I'm still not quite ready to accept the Norman Invasion, either. -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From pedro at tastytronic.net Mon Jul 30 17:46:42 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:38 2005 Subject: Next Event? (was Re: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Protest Report) In-Reply-To: <87elqyc5qj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 05:16:52PM -0700 References: <20010730185922.G21910@tastytronic.net> <87elqyc5qj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010730194642.L21910@tastytronic.net> Quoting Klepht: > Talking today after the event, some of us here in SF think we can make an > _even_bigger_ event with a little more lead time (e.g., more than 3 > business days). None of us want him to be in prison that long, but > it's probably the best to start planning around that kind of lead > time. Agreed. > Of course, the challenge is to keep Dmitry in the public eye during > that time. Perhaps doing some work to get statements from prominent > friendly organizations over those N weeks (e.g., American Library > Association, academic freedom organizations, ACLU, Amnesty) would keep > Dmitry's name in the news until the next big event. Again, agreed. I think that local groups should focus on letter-writing campaigns (i.e. get everyone on your list to write a letter to your two senators. That's 100 letters on my dinky Chicago list!), continued leafletting, and media-baiting. For example, who on your list has contacts to local media sources that might be exploited? What about contacts with state or federal legislators? These kind of resources can be poked at while actual events are planned. I know for myself it's easy to leaflet downtown on a Saturday, but I can't (for work reasons) do every Monday. In Chicago, we're toying around with a kind of coverage scheme for leafletting in a downtown area, by putting one or preferably two people on each opposing streetcorner with a big sign and a handful of flyers. If you have a handful of people, you can totally cover several intersections and therefore present large coverage for multiple blocks. This might have a nice effect -- walking through the city puts Free Dmitry people everywhere you look! This though, may be too organization-intensive. Target leafletting in specific, high-traffic areas is still highly effective. It's not that hard to pass out 300 flyers in two hours. Still, I think that letter writing is a big grail that nobody's really touched yet. > As usual, it seems like we make more of a splash when we synch up our > events across the country. I'm wondering if maybe setting up an > IRC-based "global summit" of protest groups (maybe on Wednesday > night?) to pick a good date say 2-3 weeks from now would make sense. Again, agreed. When and where? pedro -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- FBI has imprisioned a Russian software engineer for promoting and teaching the concept of "fair use". Read more: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From roo at ufies.org Mon Jul 30 17:52:21 2001 From: roo at ufies.org (Benjamin Krueger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:38 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010730175221.F28428@ufies.org> On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 02:33:46AM +0200, marek jedlinski wrote: > On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:30:00 -0500, James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov) wrote: > > > >>>Crippled media" gets my vote. It's more > > >>>suggestive than the above two, and > > >>>most people who've ever looked for > > >>>shareware on the net will be familiar > > >>>with the term "crippleware". > > > [...] > >Are we attempting to find a term that technoids will understand? > > I think not, they probably already do. Don't be so quick to assume. I've already talked to far too many techs who either don't understand, don't care, or aren't willing to take the time to listen. "It doesn't affect me, so why should I care about some russian cracker?" is the typical response. "He cracked a crypto system? Let him fry" is another. Even the people you would think understand, don't. Consider that when looking for a new term as well. Benjamin Krueger roo@ufies.org Seattle, Wa From bobds at blorch.org Mon Jul 30 17:58:35 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] just a small idea In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01073017583501.05134@bitworks> On Monday 30 July 2001 09:52, you wrote: > I think that writing individual letters is not very effectful. > Instead, we should come up with one letter which we can call a press > release or protest letter of the Free-Dmitry Community. Everything I've always heard about effective activism is just the opposite: that when companies or elected officials receive a bunch of copies of a single form letter, they tend to DISCOUNT it. What really gets their attention is individual letters from distinct parties. Two letters that are just duplicates with different signatures show that at least those two people were committed enough to sign their names and pay for a stamp...but two separate letters show a higher level of commitment and carry more weight. That's not to say mass mailings are useless. We should do exactly as you say: come up with a consensus letter, have local parties to gather as many signatures as we can, and send them all in on the same day to make a dramatic statement. However, we must ALSO do the individual letter-writing effort, or we reduce ourselves to the same level of credibility as all that junk mail you throw away every day without even opening it. It serves its purpose, but it's no substitute for personal communication. It's probably also not too soon to start thinking about setting up a speaker's bureau. At least in my area, our Big Media have mostly ignored us, and the only reporters I've seen have been from things like trade papers. That's good, and we need to keep in contact with those people--but eventually, maybe Real Soon Now, even, the big news organizations are going to notice us. When they do, we should be ready with press packets, people who are willing to go on talk shows and give interviews, and so forth. We should have lists of contact names and phone numbers for people who are prepared to do that, so when a reporter or professional society asks for a spokesman, we can seize the opportunity. -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From klepht at eleutheria.org Mon Jul 30 17:57:48 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: Next Event? (was Re: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Protest Report) In-Reply-To: <20010730194642.L21910@tastytronic.net> References: <20010730185922.G21910@tastytronic.net> <87elqyc5qj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010730194642.L21910@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: <877kwpc3ub.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "PAP" == Peter A Peterson writes: >> As usual, it seems like we make more of a splash when we synch >> up our events across the country. I'm wondering if maybe >> setting up an IRC-based "global summit" of protest groups >> (maybe on Wednesday night?) to pick a good date say 2-3 weeks >> from now would make sense. PAP> Again, agreed. When and where? Jeez, man, I'm _always_ making announcements. It's _your_ turn. (whatabout9PMEDTWedAug1onslashnet.org/#sklyarov?) BTW, no news from New York or Boston yet. Are you all in jail over there? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From harvey3 at jonesfamily.org Mon Jul 30 18:11:55 2001 From: harvey3 at jonesfamily.org (Harvey Jones) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: Next Event? (was Re: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Protest Report) In-Reply-To: <877kwpc3ub.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 05:57:48PM -0700 References: <20010730185922.G21910@tastytronic.net> <87elqyc5qj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010730194642.L21910@tastytronic.net> <877kwpc3ub.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010730211155.A17276@roam77-92.student.harvard.edu> On Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 05:57:48PM -0700, Klepht wrote: > BTW, no news from New York or Boston yet. Are you all in jail over > there? Yes, all 40+ of us, from places as far away as Maine. Fortunately, we handed out a lot of fliers before they hauled us off. http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/~blizzard/jul_30_2001_boston_dmca_protest/ for pics. Harvey From neale at woozle.org Mon Jul 30 18:23:30 2001 From: neale at woozle.org (Neale Pickett) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: Next Event? (was Re: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Protest Report) In-Reply-To: <87elqyc5qj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> References: <20010730185922.G21910@tastytronic.net> <87elqyc5qj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: Klepht writes: >>>>>> "PAP" == Peter A Peterson writes: PAP> We'll probably take a week or two off -- I think that we can PAP> organize a better, more coherent protest as well as muster up PAP> more returners (we had about half totally new people today) PAP> if we make a little breathing room before the next PAP> protest. > Talking today after the event, some of us here in SF think we can make an > _even_bigger_ event with a little more lead time (e.g., more than 3 > business days). None of us want him to be in prison that long, but > it's probably the best to start planning around that kind of lead > time. Yes, that's what we were thinking in Seattle too. We're dealing with what sounds like about 1/10th as many people coming to our protests, and with a little more lead time we can absolutely get more. I had people mailing me saying they couldn't get off work, couldn't get the car today, etc. I'm going to use the next week or so to get my act together as a Seattle organizer. That means doing some real press releases, some good graphic design, having a sign-making party, and drumming up local support. > Of course, the challenge is to keep Dmitry in the public eye during > that time. Perhaps doing some work to get statements from prominent > friendly organizations over those N weeks (e.g., American Library > Association, academic freedom organizations, ACLU, Amnesty) would keep > Dmitry's name in the news until the next big event. Yessiree. I'm thinking a letter-writing campaign, combined with a petition, combined with leafletting. I think we could get some really great coverage and some really great flyers. A lot of us *are* the graphic designers and web masters of the world, aren't we? > As usual, it seems like we make more of a splash when we synch up our > events across the country. I'm wondering if maybe setting up an > IRC-based "global summit" of protest groups (maybe on Wednesday > night?) to pick a good date say 2-3 weeks from now would make sense. Wednesday night would be *awesome*, that's the same night I want to have our meeting (in a wired cafe, of course). Having an IRC presence at a face-to-face local meeting would be too cool, especially if other cities were doing the same. > Also, I think there's opportunities for smaller events -- leafletting, > hitting legislators' offices, etc. -- in that time, too. Word up. We've already started to talk to Washington state Senators with someone visiting a local office. We fully intend to follow up on this. From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Mon Jul 30 18:13:33 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Minnesota Message-ID: Briefly: Minnesota protest was a success. We had, as counted by our youngest member, 33 people up, down and around the federal courthouse. The attendees came from Wisconsin (150 mi), Duluth (200 mi), St. Cloud and Shakopee. We distributed hundreds of fliers and caught the attention of thousands riding buses out of the city. Pictures soon. Foot traffic was low, but our signs were more than legible from the street. More people have seen the letters DMCA in the twin cities today than they ever have before. We have tentatively agreed to reconvene in protest on two weeks from today, August 13. We agree that a week off will help with the media coverage and ensure higher turnout. The next event will probably be at a library and will have a pro-library theme. Free Dmitry. Repeal the DMCA. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ From pedro at tastytronic.net Mon Jul 30 18:38:30 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: Next Event? (was Re: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Protest Report) In-Reply-To: <877kwpc3ub.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 05:57:48PM -0700 References: <20010730185922.G21910@tastytronic.net> <87elqyc5qj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> <20010730194642.L21910@tastytronic.net> <877kwpc3ub.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010730203830.Q21910@tastytronic.net> Quoting Klepht: > Jeez, man, I'm _always_ making announcements. It's _your_ > turn. (whatabout9PMEDTWedAug1onslashnet.org/#sklyarov?) Hmm... shoot. This makes me realize that I probably can't do Wed. at that time. And later will be too late for the East COasters. Perhaps Nate Riffe from the Chicago crew could "attend". pedro -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE DMITRY SKLYAROV -- FBI has imprisioned a Russian software engineer for promoting and teaching the concept of "fair use". Read more: http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html From alphageek at mediaone.net Mon Jul 30 18:52:38 2001 From: alphageek at mediaone.net (Alphageek) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Protest Report In-Reply-To: <20010730185922.G21910@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: Be aware that the American Bar Association Convention will be in Chicago, starting Thursday. Things don't really pick up until the weekend (I'm on a "Presidential CLE Showcase" Panel about Privacy on Sunday, 5 August 2001 at 14:00 -- titled "My Privacy - My Choice - International Data Protection and Privacy Laws Considered."). I suspect that there may be multiple opportunities to communicate a "Free Sklyarov" message during the ABA Convention. Get a schedule for the ABA meeting if you can. Usually there are at least a couple of VIPs who show up to deliver addresses to the lawyers (i.e., Clinton spoke a couple of years ago in Atlanta). And you may even find some of the lawyers (me, for one) sympathetic to your views. Best regards. Feel free to email me if I can help. Eric C. Grimm CyberBrief, PLC 320 South Main Street Ann Arbor, MI 48107-7341 734.332.4900 fax 743.332.4901 ]> -----Original Message----- ]> From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net ]> [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Peter A. Peterson II ]> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 7:59 PM ]> To: free-sklyarov@zork.net ]> Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Protest Report ]> ]> ]> Chicago's leafletting today went well, again passing out around 1,000 ]> flyers with about 20 people (a little less than the first one). All in ]> all, pretty good. Many more people seemed to know about the situation, ]> although it's still frustrating that afaik, no Chicago news outlet has ]> reported on the Sklyarov case. ]> ]> We'll probably take a week or two off -- I think that we can organize a ]> better, more coherent protest as well as muster up more returners (we ]> had about half totally new people today) if we make a little breathing ]> room before the next protest. Additionally, our next protest will ]> hopefully be more of an actual protest as opposed to a leafletting ]> campaign, although I had a cool idea -- instead of getting one plaza in ]> a place like downtown Chicago, get one guy on as many adjacent ]> streetcorners as possible -- visibility at every crosswalk. *shrug* ]> ]> Taking some time off may help in coordinating some better media ]> trolling. ]> ]> Anyway, a lot more people in Chicago now know about the situation with ]> Sklyarov. ]> ]> Chicago area information can be found at: ]> ]> http://two-bit.ufo.chicago.il.us/free-sklyarov/ ]> ]> pedro From danny at spesh.com Mon Jul 30 18:51:42 2001 From: danny at spesh.com (Danny O'Brien) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Elinor Is the Rock In-Reply-To: <87r8uyaq39.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010730185142.L815@spesh.com> On Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 05:40:10PM -0700, Klepht wrote: > Man, this is one sharp journalist: > > http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010730/n303480_2.html > And if you do read this, and like it, use the "e-mail this article" feature. Even if it's just to yourself, it'll show up on Yahoo's top-ten rating. That's good for a number of reasons: 1) People browse the top ten for interesting news stories. So you'll encourage more people to read about Dmitry. 2) It'll show you think the journalist's doing a good job. She'll get kudos in the office, and will get to cover more of this area. 3) Reuters will know that people want this story covered. (Actually, I'm not sure Reuters are smart enough to track Yahoo ratings. OTOH, they'd have to pretty dumb to not rate their own. Try: http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=technologynews&StoryID=140009 ) d. > ~Klepht > > -- > klepht@eleutheria.org > http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > From mark at blorch.org Mon Jul 30 18:50:35 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: Next Event? (was Re: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Protest Report) In-Reply-To: References: <20010730185922.G21910@tastytronic.net> <87elqyc5qj.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <01073018503507.10484@bilbo.blorch.org> Down here in LA we had a good turn out considering that any location is going to be a long way for large groups of people and that limits how many can get time off (still, we managed 25-30). I'm thinking--and hope folks will consider it--that we do something along these lines: --Pick a date a month or something away (what if he's released before then, well, we celebrate ). --Pick a handful of cities within "caravan range" (avoiding anybody having to fly maybe so if the protest is called off because of Dmitry's release, we won't have people holding non-refundable tickets). --Focus our efforts on getting together the biggest protests we can manage in the few cities. Big protests get media attention. If we work towards some "regional" protests and merge our efforts, I think we could put on some impressive marches. Though we would need time to get things together and coordinate it all. Mark (and then, the million coder march on DC!!! ) On Monday 30 July 2001 18:23, Neale Pickett wrote: > Klepht writes: > >>>>>> "PAP" == Peter A Peterson writes: > > PAP> We'll probably take a week or two off -- I think that we can > PAP> organize a better, more coherent protest as well as muster up > PAP> more returners (we had about half totally new people today) > PAP> if we make a little breathing room before the next > PAP> protest. > > > Talking today after the event, some of us here in SF think we can make an > > _even_bigger_ event with a little more lead time (e.g., more than 3 > > business days). None of us want him to be in prison that long, but > > it's probably the best to start planning around that kind of lead > > time. > > Yes, that's what we were thinking in Seattle too. We're dealing with > what sounds like about 1/10th as many people coming to our protests, and > with a little more lead time we can absolutely get more. I had people > mailing me saying they couldn't get off work, couldn't get the car > today, etc. > > I'm going to use the next week or so to get my act together as a Seattle > organizer. That means doing some real press releases, some good graphic > design, having a sign-making party, and drumming up local support. > > > Of course, the challenge is to keep Dmitry in the public eye during > > that time. Perhaps doing some work to get statements from prominent > > friendly organizations over those N weeks (e.g., American Library > > Association, academic freedom organizations, ACLU, Amnesty) would keep > > Dmitry's name in the news until the next big event. > > Yessiree. I'm thinking a letter-writing campaign, combined with a > petition, combined with leafletting. I think we could get some really > great coverage and some really great flyers. A lot of us *are* the > graphic designers and web masters of the world, aren't we? > > > As usual, it seems like we make more of a splash when we synch up our > > events across the country. I'm wondering if maybe setting up an > > IRC-based "global summit" of protest groups (maybe on Wednesday > > night?) to pick a good date say 2-3 weeks from now would make sense. > > Wednesday night would be *awesome*, that's the same night I want to have > our meeting (in a wired cafe, of course). Having an IRC presence at a > face-to-face local meeting would be too cool, especially if other cities > were doing the same. > > > Also, I think there's opportunities for smaller events -- leafletting, > > hitting legislators' offices, etc. -- in that time, too. > > Word up. We've already started to talk to Washington state Senators > with someone visiting a local office. We fully intend to follow up on > this. > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From pedro at tastytronic.net Mon Jul 30 19:04:39 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] just a small idea In-Reply-To: <01073017583501.05134@bitworks>; from bobds@blorch.org on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 05:58:35PM -0700 References: <01073017583501.05134@bitworks> Message-ID: <20010730210439.X21910@tastytronic.net> Quoting Bob Smart: > On Monday 30 July 2001 09:52, you wrote: > > I think that writing individual letters is not very effectful. > > Instead, we should come up with one letter which we can call a press > > release or protest letter of the Free-Dmitry Community. > > Everything I've always heard about effective activism is just the > opposite: that when companies or elected officials receive a bunch of > copies of a single form letter, they tend to DISCOUNT it. What really > gets their attention is individual letters from distinct parties. Two > letters that are just duplicates with different signatures show that > at least those two people were committed enough to sign their names > and pay for a stamp...but two separate letters show a higher level of > commitment and carry more weight. Definitely. Write your own letter -- how can that possibly be worth LESS than a form letter? > That's not to say mass mailings are useless. We should do exactly as > you say: come up with a consensus letter, have local parties to gather > as many signatures as we can, and send them all in on the same day to > make a dramatic statement. However, we must ALSO do the individual > letter-writing effort, or we reduce ourselves to the same level of > credibility as all that junk mail you throw away every day without > even opening it. It serves its purpose, but it's no substitute for > personal communication. Yep. > It's probably also not too soon to start thinking about setting up a > speaker's bureau. At least in my area, our Big Media have mostly > ignored us, and the only reporters I've seen have been from things > like trade papers. That's good, and we need to keep in contact with > those people--but eventually, maybe Real Soon Now, even, the big news > organizations are going to notice us. When they do, we should be > ready with press packets, people who are willing to go on talk shows > and give interviews, and so forth. We should have lists of contact > names and phone numbers for people who are prepared to do that, so > when a reporter or professional society asks for a spokesman, we can > seize the opportunity. I would say that freesklyarov.org would be a good place for this info. maybe a "local contacts" list that is separate from the links to local sites and includes names and contact info for the organizers or other qualified parties. This should not be a mass list of individuals, but rather a select few in each geographic area. This is not to be elitist, but to really give the press people who can effectively and eloquently present our case, so to speak. pedro From moseng2 at underwhelm.org Mon Jul 30 18:52:56 2001 From: moseng2 at underwhelm.org (nobody) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Minnesota pictures Message-ID: The first round of pics from Minnesota are located at http://www.underwhelm.org/freedima/073001.html Free Dmitry. Repeal the DMCA. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCA-minnesota/ From pedro at tastytronic.net Mon Jul 30 19:02:08 2001 From: pedro at tastytronic.net (Peter A. Peterson II) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Protest Report In-Reply-To: ; from alphageek@mediaone.net on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 09:52:38PM -0400 References: <20010730185922.G21910@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: <20010730210208.W21910@tastytronic.net> Quoting Alphageek: > Be aware that the American Bar Association Convention will be in > Chicago, starting Thursday. Things don't really pick up until the > weekend (I'm on a "Presidential CLE Showcase" Panel about Privacy on > Sunday, 5 August 2001 at 14:00 -- titled "My Privacy - My Choice - > International Data Protection and Privacy Laws Considered."). I sent this on to the sklyarov-chicago list and will be discussing with them some leafletting and sign-waving strategies for the weekend. pedro From bobds at blorch.org Mon Jul 30 19:09:51 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A modest proposal Message-ID: <01073019095103.05134@bitworks> Well, we had our picketing in Los Angeles today, and overall I'd say it was as successful as anything else we've done, maybe even more so than some things. At our first rally, there were perhaps 10 people; at this one, we had maybe 25-30. However, that's a far cry from 160, and you'd think a major city like LA could turn out more people. At least, *I'd* think that. But maybe not. Both of our picket protests have been done at lunchtime on Mondays, and the nature of this city may inherently limit turnout for something like that. For those of us who are lucky enough to live, work, or study on the West Side, it's feasible to run out on our lunch breaks and march for a while--but for people in other parts of the city, it's an Epic Jouney to get across town, find parking (Hah!), protest for an hour, and then start the long voyage home. I have some proposals about that: 1. Maybe we can have many small, parallel actions in different parts of town on the same day at the same time? Not everything always has to happen in Westwood (although it's mighty convenient for me). If it's newsworthy that "500 people demonstrated in front of Big Fat Corporation headquarters today," maybe it would also be worth a story if "there were at least 50 separate demonstrations throughout the metro area today, and the unrest seems to be spreading!" 2. Maybe we can do more evening/after-work events, like candlelight vigils? People who can't afford to take off for half a day during work hours might be more likely to come to something at a later time--and at least so far, nobody has been coming out of their offices to engage us, so probably it doesn't particularly matter whether they're open for business or even present while we're there. If the point is to make a large crowd appear, that can be just as effective in the evening or on weekends. -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From bobds at blorch.org Mon Jul 30 19:19:50 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] just a small idea In-Reply-To: <20010730210439.X21910@tastytronic.net> References: <01073017583501.05134@bitworks> <20010730210439.X21910@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: <01073019195004.05134@bitworks> On Monday 30 July 2001 19:04, you wrote: > I would say that freesklyarov.org would be a good place for this info. > maybe a "local contacts" list that is separate from the links to local > sites and includes names and contact info for the organizers or other > qualified parties. This should not be a mass list of individuals, but > rather a select few in each geographic area. This is not to be elitist, > but to really give the press people who can effectively and eloquently > present our case, so to speak. Another advantage to having a small list like that is that the people on it can be experts in particular fields: lawyers can go speak to audiences that are interested in legal issues, programmers can be sent out to cover technical interviews, writers can address questions about how this affects content originators, and so forth. You're right, it's not "elitist," it's just division of labor to make the best use of the particular expertise and insights of specialists. Plus, I REALLY think it's important to make the point that this is much more than just a "hacker" issue. If there's ever going to be broad public interest, let alone support for what we're doing, then we've got to show the general public why they should be interested. One really good way to do that is to trot out someone who can credibly say, "I'm just like you, and this is how I'm affected and why I'm concerned." -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From alphageek at mediaone.net Mon Jul 30 19:27:07 2001 From: alphageek at mediaone.net (Alphageek) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Chicago Protest Report In-Reply-To: <20010730210208.W21910@tastytronic.net> Message-ID: Peter A. Peterson II says: ]> Quoting Alphageek: ]> > Be aware that the American Bar Association Convention will be in ]> > Chicago, starting Thursday. Things don't really pick up until the ]> ]> I sent this on to the sklyarov-chicago list and will be discussing with ]> them some leafletting and sign-waving strategies for the weekend. ]> Please, my name is Eric. "Alphageek" just happens to be an extra account that I use for managing several high-volume mailing lists. Be aware that I generally do not check this address when I am on travel. If the "Free Sklyarov" protestors are willing to put on neckties (or comparable apparel for women), you might consider selectively crashing some of the receptions. The food is pretty good, and it certainly would liven up the conversation. In particular, I trust that Tom Smedinghof of Baker & McKenzie will put on a good spread for the Science & Technology Section. And half (or more of) the lawyers there will actually be disguised crypto geeks who have even read some of Schneier's books and can tell you what DMCA is. Not that I'm encouraging uninvited non-lawyers to crash any of the events. What you do and whether you get arrested doing it is up to you. Eric C. Grimm CyberBrief, PLC 320 South Main Street Ann Arbor, MI 48107-7341 734.332.4900 fax 743.332.4901 From callahanpb at yahoo.com Mon Jul 30 19:48:11 2001 From: callahanpb at yahoo.com (Paul Callahan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Elinor Is the Rock In-Reply-To: <20010730185142.L815@spesh.com> Message-ID: <20010731024811.16797.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com> --- Danny O'Brien wrote: > http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010730/n303480_2.html > > > > And if you do read this, and like it, use the > "e-mail this article" feature. > Even if it's just to yourself, it'll show up on > Yahoo's top-ten rating. That's good advice. I hadn't thought of that. I just used Yahoo's feature to mail the link to a friend that I was going to mail to by copy-paste. So this must be a first: a mainstream news story on Sklyarov that doesn't have "Russian hacker" in the headline. Seriously, those two words are killers. The average reader equates "hacker" to a software pirate, website vandal, or worse. And frankly not all Americans are aware that the cold war ended, so "Russian" doesn't help. I would like to see more stories without those two words! I can think of a lot of reasons behind my outrage, but most are complicated to explain. I'd rather leave that to legal experts such as Lawrence Lessig. I think the story with the most popular appeal--which is also a legitimate cause for outrage--is quite easy to explain to everyone and might be a way to start on non-tech friends and family: There are two software corporations, one Russian and one American, involved in an international dispute over an esoteric provision of a recent and controversial IP law. As a result of this, one of the employees of the Russian firm is being held in US custody out of contact from his family http://ezhe.ru/elcomsoft/sklyarov_family.jpg The American company has since backed off, but unfortunately, our own government isn't as reasonable. Do we want to live in a country where we settle corporate disputes by persecuting non-managerial employees of these companies? Anyway, I really like the picture of Skylarov with his family. The kid in the foreground is cute. His wife looks very worried, though obviously it was taken long before this incident. It goes a long way in countering the "Russian hacker" characterization. This picture could be used a lot more for gaining sympathy. I have only seen it on the boycottadobe.org site and the Russian site above. --Paul __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From nbhs2 at i-2000.com Mon Jul 30 19:52:30 2001 From: nbhs2 at i-2000.com (Michael Scottaline) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] YAA (Yet ANother Analogy) In-Reply-To: <20010730161446.T14270@zork.net> References: <20010730161446.T14270@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010730225230.3724a3da.nbhs2@i-2000.com> On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 16:14:46 -0700 Nick Moffitt insightfully noted: NM> 1: It's like a bartender in Alberta, Canada, where the drinking age is NM> 18, coming to the US and being arrested for serving alcohol to those NM> under 21. ================== While they were in Canada!! Mike -- "A world where some live in comfort and plenty, while half of the human race lives on less than $2 a day, is neither just, nor stable." -PRESIDENT BUSH (dubya) From nick at zork.net Mon Jul 30 20:03:16 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] YAA (Yet ANother Analogy) In-Reply-To: <20010730225230.3724a3da.nbhs2@i-2000.com>; from nbhs2@i-2000.com on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 10:52:30PM -0400 References: <20010730161446.T14270@zork.net> <20010730225230.3724a3da.nbhs2@i-2000.com> Message-ID: <20010730200316.A14270@zork.net> Begin Michael Scottaline quotation: > NM> 1: It's like a bartender in Alberta, Canada, where the drinking age is > NM> 18, coming to the US and being arrested for serving alcohol to those > NM> under 21. > While they were in Canada!! Er, yeah. Thanks to those who mailed me privately. I did screw up the delivery on that one. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 30 20:38:53 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Yahoo message boards Message-ID: <20010730203853.A53664@networkcommand.com> Please help enlighten these people... http://news.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?action=l&board=37172369&tid=nmtechhackerdc&sid=37172369&mid=69 Also, if someone could create a list of message boards, I think it may prove very helpful. I know the stories are transient but even pointing close to them would help. Quite a few more people read the boards than post and a big list could really help Influence Public Opinion ;). From pmasloch at earthlink.net Mon Jul 30 20:50:30 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] just a small idea In-Reply-To: <01073017583501.05134@bitworks> Message-ID: The idea behind it is to show the public that there is the interrest of a large group. I didn't say that we should stop sending individual letters. The idea of an central "Press-Office" is very good. My experience from other countries shows that 'official statemants' from a large group have always much more power then letters from 10 individuals. I also didn't say that we should send the same latter 10 times to the same Office or person. That is not how public relation is working and that is exactly what we need: professional public relation. The goal is to wake up the media but the media will not react off 10 individual letters. There are certain rules for public relation and getting recognized. We should take them to our advantage. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org On Monday 30 July 2001 09:52, you wrote: > I think that writing individual letters is not very effectful. > Instead, we should come up with one letter which we can call a press > release or protest letter of the Free-Dmitry Community. Everything I've always heard about effective activism is just the opposite: that when companies or elected officials receive a bunch of copies of a single form letter, they tend to DISCOUNT it. What really gets their attention is individual letters from distinct parties. Two letters that are just duplicates with different signatures show that at least those two people were committed enough to sign their names and pay for a stamp...but two separate letters show a higher level of commitment and carry more weight. That's not to say mass mailings are useless. We should do exactly as you say: come up with a consensus letter, have local parties to gather as many signatures as we can, and send them all in on the same day to make a dramatic statement. However, we must ALSO do the individual letter-writing effort, or we reduce ourselves to the same level of credibility as all that junk mail you throw away every day without even opening it. It serves its purpose, but it's no substitute for personal communication. It's probably also not too soon to start thinking about setting up a speaker's bureau. At least in my area, our Big Media have mostly ignored us, and the only reporters I've seen have been from things like trade papers. That's good, and we need to keep in contact with those people--but eventually, maybe Real Soon Now, even, the big news organizations are going to notice us. When they do, we should be ready with press packets, people who are willing to go on talk shows and give interviews, and so forth. We should have lists of contact names and phone numbers for people who are prepared to do that, so when a reporter or professional society asks for a spokesman, we can seize the opportunity. -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 30 21:20:35 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WIPO Regulations Message-ID: <20010730212035.C53664@networkcommand.com> I think this is the WIPO Regulation that resulted in the DMCA: Someone was asking about it... WIPO Copyright Treaty: http://www.wipo.int/eng/diplconf/distrib/94dc.htm Article 12 Obligations concerning Rights Management Information (1) Contracting Parties shall provide adequate and effective legal remedies against any person knowingly performing any of the following acts knowing, or with respect to civil remedies having reasonable grounds to know, that it will induce, enable, facilitate or conceal an infringement of any right covered by this Treaty or the Berne Convention: (i) to remove or alter any electronic rights management information without authority; (ii) to distribute, import for distribution, broadcast or communicate to the public, without authority, works or copies of works knowing that electronic rights management information has been removed or altered without authority. (2) As used in this Article, ?rights management information? means information which identifies the work, the author of the work, the owner of any right in the work, or information about the terms and conditions of use of the work, and any numbers or codes that represent such information, when any of these items of information is attached to a copy of a work or appears in connection with the communication of a work to the public. [See the agreed statement concerning Article 12] http://www.wipo.int/eng/diplconf/distrib/94dc.htm From jono at microshaft.org Mon Jul 30 21:49:29 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Another cartoon Message-ID: <20010730214929.D53664@networkcommand.com> Another DMCA/encrpytion/WIPO cartoon: http://www.bakedbabies.com/ From moeller at scireview.de Mon Jul 30 22:27:16 2001 From: moeller at scireview.de (Erik Moeller) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Top 10 Slogans NOT to Use Message-ID: <3B665DD4.30057.38B1136@localhost> #10- KEEP YOUR LAWS OFF DMITRY'S BODY! #9 - WIPO MY ASSO! #8 - DMITRY HAS BEEN LYNCHED BY JANET RENO! #7 - IF THE EBOOK FITS, YOU MUST ACQUIT! #6 - SUPPORT FREE SPECH! SUPPORT THE COMMUNIST PARTY! #5 - FUCK DMITRY! HIS PRODUCTS IS FOR POEPLE THAT CAN READ! #4 - BREAKING INTO COMPUTERS IS NOT A CRIME! #3 - HE DIDN'T MEAN TO KILL THOSE PEOPLE! #2 - DMITRY ATE MY BABY! #1 - DMITRY SHOULD DIE FOR COPYRIGHT CRIME! -- Scientific Reviewer, Freelancer, Humanist -- Berlin/Germany Phone: +49-30-45491008 - Web: The Origins of Peace and Violence: "History is full of people who, out of fear or ignorance or the lust for power, have destroyed treasures of immeasurable value which truly belong to all of us. We must not let it happen again." -- Carl Sagan From mlc67 at columbia.edu Mon Jul 30 22:28:26 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] annoncement? Message-ID: <20010730222826.U27596@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> I thought there was supposed to be some sort of announcement about Dmitry's legal team today. Did I miss it, or did it not happen? mike -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // current location: berkeley, ca, us // ph: +1 (646) 382-7220 // FREE DMITRY! See http://freesklyarov.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010730/144febc9/attachment.pgp From david at lupercalia.net Mon Jul 30 23:01:25 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] e-protest: idea In-Reply-To: ; from tabouass@math.uwaterloo.ca on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 04:22:22PM -0400 References: <007901c11930$391d2320$0100a8c0@sharhan> Message-ID: <20010731020125.D26025@lupercalia.net> On Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 04:22:22PM -0400, Tony Abou-Assaleh wrote: > Here is an idea for the next e-protest: > > We continue to have an online meeting place as we did today, which > will be our assembly place and provide us with fast communication. From > there, we pick an online forum/message board, preferably belonging to big > organization/corporation and start a massive discussion there so that > anyone visiting that page will know about our protest. > > Adobe has a forum, but you must register to post: > http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?18@199.gnh3aQy1dbN^0@14@.ee6b280 > > We could also visit "dense" chat rooms on various networks for about 15 > mins (longer time may cause inconvenience for users.. we probably don't > want that). Can we please schedule one for >= 1800 and <= 2100 PST? This one was during work hours for most of the US. -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca/ To the cross roads I must go To find a world unseen Fear and wonder will I know, And be a bridge between -- To the Crossroads, Starhawk From david at lupercalia.net Mon Jul 30 23:10:27 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] USENIX attendees Message-ID: <20010731021027.E26025@lupercalia.net> Who is on the list and attending the USENIX event starting August 15th? -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca/ DOS will be with us forever. We've learned how passionate people are about DOS. -Former Microsoft Vice President Brad Silverberg From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Jul 30 23:16:12 2001 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why the DMCA is anti-security and anti-privacy In-Reply-To: <00d901c1191e$8dc202e0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20010730231612.H9784@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> begin Richard M. Smith quotation: > The Privacy Foundation has just posted an article of mine on why the > DMCA is bad for security and privacy research. The URL for the article > is: > > http://www.privacyfoundation.org/commentary/tipsheet.asp?id=47&action=0 Where one gets: Microsoft VBScript runtime error '800a01ad' ActiveX component can't create object D:\WEBDOCS\PRIVACYFOUNDATION\WWWROOT\COMMENTARY\../privacy_editorial.inc, line 1 [Rick tries to conjure up a stirring ballad about the comparative merit of Apache and PHP on Linux or *BSD, and fails.] -- Cheers, My pid is Inigo Montoya. You kill -9 Rick Moen my parent process. Prepare to vi. rick@linuxmafia.com From paul at paultopia.net Mon Jul 30 23:15:50 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Do smart tags violate coyright? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010731001506.03202b90@mail.paultopia.net> Dear friends. A premise of modern life is that *everything* violates copyright. First law of totalitarian governments -- if everything is a crime, you can prosecute anyone for any reason. -Paul -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From david at lupercalia.net Mon Jul 30 23:16:27 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: USENIX attendees In-Reply-To: <20010731021027.E26025@lupercalia.net>; from david@lupercalia.net on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 02:10:05AM -0400 References: <20010731021027.E26025@lupercalia.net> Message-ID: <20010731021627.F26025@lupercalia.net> On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 02:10:05AM -0400, David Merrill wrote: > Who is on the list and attending the USENIX event starting August > 15th? Ummm, I mean 13th. Sorry I'm cixelsyd. -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca/ There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest. -- Elie Wiesel From david at lupercalia.net Mon Jul 30 23:28:26 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] just a small idea In-Reply-To: ; from pmasloch@earthlink.net on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 12:52:07PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010731022826.J26025@lupercalia.net> On Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 12:52:07PM -0400, Peter wrote: > I think that writing individual letters is not very effectful. > Instead, we should come up with one letter which we can call a press > release or protest letter of the Free-Dmitry Community. We're trying to organize a letter writing, petition signing presence at USENIX. I've written to Chris DiBona but haven't heard back yet, about using the Community Declaration. And somebody here must have contacts at USENIX, right? Please pass them to me. Thanks, -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca/ ...[Windows 98] must be a killer on shipments so that Netscape never gets a chance... --Former Microsoft Vice President James Allchin in an internal memo From crism at maden.org Mon Jul 30 23:27:55 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] More PDF help In-Reply-To: <3B65AAB5.7010202@iname.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010730232717.00b00380@mail.maden.org> At 11:43 30-07-2001, Michael L. Love wrote: >For any interested parties, I've created some more instructions for >creating custom PDF's with non-Adobe software. > >http://gnu-darwin.sourceforge.net/download.html FOP is a tool from the Apache Foundation for creating formatted PDF documents from XML with XSL stylesheets. I use it frequently. -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From david at lupercalia.net Mon Jul 30 23:29:56 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:39 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Top 10 Slogans NOT to Use In-Reply-To: <3B665DD4.30057.38B1136@localhost>; from moeller@scireview.de on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 07:26:54AM +0200 References: <3B665DD4.30057.38B1136@localhost> Message-ID: <20010731022956.K26025@lupercalia.net> On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 07:26:54AM +0200, Erik Moeller wrote: > #10- KEEP YOUR LAWS OFF DMITRY'S BODY! > #9 - WIPO MY ASSO! I actually *like* this one. ;-) It would make a great poster. > #8 - DMITRY HAS BEEN LYNCHED BY JANET RENO! > #7 - IF THE EBOOK FITS, YOU MUST ACQUIT! > #6 - SUPPORT FREE SPECH! SUPPORT THE COMMUNIST PARTY! > #5 - FUCK DMITRY! HIS PRODUCTS IS FOR POEPLE THAT CAN READ! > #4 - BREAKING INTO COMPUTERS IS NOT A CRIME! > #3 - HE DIDN'T MEAN TO KILL THOSE PEOPLE! > #2 - DMITRY ATE MY BABY! Maybe a *dingo* ate your baby? > #1 - DMITRY SHOULD DIE FOR COPYRIGHT CRIME! -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca/ From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Mon Jul 30 23:48:05 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] an arrest at the san jose event last week? Message-ID: At the SF rally today, there was a semi-rumor regarding the police having arrested one of ours for trespassing on Adobe's private property at the San Jose rally on July 23rd. The version I heard was that he was arrested at some point after the rest of the protesters took off; the name I heard was "Evan, but not Evan Prodromou". At this point, this is NOT confirmed information. Can anyone confirm that this happenned and explain exactly what actually happenned? Is this something for everyone to be concerned about? Or did I manage to miss a huge thread about this on one of the lists? -- -alexf From rabbi at quickie.net Tue Jul 31 00:00:20 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] an arrest at the san jose event last week? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think that if there had been an arrest at the protest last week, we would have heard about it. On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Alex Fabrikant wrote: > At the SF rally today, there was a semi-rumor regarding the police having > arrested one of ours for trespassing on Adobe's private property at the > San Jose rally on July 23rd. The version I heard was that he was arrested > at some point after the rest of the protesters took off; the name I heard > was "Evan, but not Evan Prodromou". > > At this point, this is NOT confirmed information. Can anyone confirm that > this happenned and explain exactly what actually happenned? Is this > something for everyone to be concerned about? Or did I manage to miss a > huge thread about this on one of the lists? > > -- > -alexf > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Jul 31 00:12:19 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] just a small idea In-Reply-To: <20010731022826.J26025@lupercalia.net> References: <20010731022826.J26025@lupercalia.net> Message-ID: <87bsm1mv1o.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "DM" == David Merrill writes: DM> We're trying to organize a letter writing, petition signing DM> presence at USENIX. I've written to Chris DiBona but haven't DM> heard back yet, about using the Community Declaration. DM> And somebody here must have contacts at USENIX, right? Please DM> pass them to me. Dr. David, Is it too late to get some kind of B.O.F. or other room for Usenix? I think that would blow doors. Considering that Usenix played a big part in Alan Cox's announcement, and all. Actually, was Alan Cox giving any talks? I bet his room is free, and it'd make a pretty powerful replacement. I've never been to Usenix, so I don't know how it works. But Karsten and I were just talking last night about a DeCSS discussion at... what, Linux Expo, K? Sounds like it was a great success -- a Dmitry event might be equally if not better attended. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca Tue Jul 31 00:20:08 2001 From: marvin at qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca (Austin Hook) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WIPO Regulations In-Reply-To: <20010730212035.C53664@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: Re: WIPO language (caution: IANAL) Condensing (cutting and pasting) to the critical point (see original quoted text at the bottom): > (1) Contracting Parties shall provide effective legal remedies against > any person knowingly altering any electronic rights management > information [while also] knowing that it will facilitate an > infringement of any right covered by this Treaty or the Berne > Convention However, if rights management information is merely the author and copyright ownership information, along with a list of the rights that are intended to be conveyed, then so long as that information is not damaged, it is not necessary under WIPO to forbid removing associated encryption or usage crippling technology. The thrust of it seems to make illegal the act of the first person who removes the copyright ownership or terms of use information, and doing that so to cause the material to get into circulation without the copyright information being attached. It doesn't seem to worry about transformations that do not alter the "[Copy]rights Management Information" (CMI), even if they facilitate a second person doing such a nasty thing. It's the stage at which the CMI itself is damaged, rather than the technological protections surrounding it, where legal action is called for. So I don't see how creating software that will remove the technological protections binding the CMI to the work has to be forbidden in order to comply with the WIPO treaty. In particular, passing out encrypted copies of copyrighted works, where copying in encrypted form is permitted, is OK, and distributing anything else with it, or independently of it, such as an alternate reader or decrypter, does not in itself, remove any CMI. Looking closer, the wording (quoted below), seems to focus on "removing CMI ...to facilitate", rather than "facilitating removing CMI". The (i) and (ii) clauses are intended to precede the word "facilitate", because they are to be substituted where the words "following acts" occur in the preceding paragraph, and the those words precede the word "facilitate". =20 (Think MAKEFILE or two pass compiler.) Obviously the DMCA in the USA can expand the intent of WIPO, in it's own corrupted incarnation. However, at least other countries need not follow such an extreme path, if the language below is the crux of the WIPO treaty. Austin Hook Calgary On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Jon O . wrote: > I think this is the WIPO Regulation that resulted in the DMCA: >=20 > Someone was asking about it... >=20 >=20 > WIPO Copyright Treaty: >=20 > http://www.wipo.int/eng/diplconf/distrib/94dc.htm >=20 >=20 > Article 12=20 >=20 > Obligations concerning Rights Management Information=20 >=20 > (1) Contracting Parties shall provide adequate and effective legal > remedies against any person knowingly performing any of the following > acts knowing, or with respect to civil remedies having reasonable > grounds to know, that it will induce, enable, facilitate or conceal an > infringement of any right covered by this Treaty or the Berne > Convention: >=20 > (i) to remove or alter any electronic rights management information > without authority; >=20 > (ii) to distribute, import for distribution, broadcast or communicate > to the public, without authority, works or copies of works knowing > that electronic rights management information has been removed or > altered without authority. > (2) As used in this Article, =93rights management information=94 means > information which identifies the work, the author of the work, the > owner of any right in the work, or information about the terms and > conditions of use of the work, and any numbers or codes that represent > such information, when any of these items of information is attached > to a copy of a work or appears in connection with the communication of > a work to the public. [See the agreed statement concerning Article 12] >=20 > http://www.wipo.int/eng/diplconf/distrib/94dc.htm >=20 > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov >=20 From david.haworth at altavista.net Tue Jul 31 00:14:14 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:41 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: <13218924952.20010730175256@centras.lt>; from debug@centras.lt on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 05:52:56PM +0200 References: <13218924952.20010730175256@centras.lt> Message-ID: <20010731091414.A1151@3soft.de> On Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 05:52:56PM +0200, DeBug wrote: > I really do not understand what is the difference between copy and other use > > If you think you have the right to restict copying then logically > you have the right to apply many other kinds of restriction > (long long list of what users of your property can think of) What the WIPO treaty actually says is: "Authors of literary and artistic works shall enjoy the exclusive right of authorizing the making available to the public of the original and copies of their works through sale or other transfer of ownership." (Article 6) (http://www.wipo.int/treaties/ip/copyright/copyright.html) It goes on to say that what happens to those copies after they've been sold is up to individual countries. I believe the US has a first sale doctrine that says the authors can't restrict further sales or transfers of the copy in its original form. Also read articles 11 and 12, and then ask why the DMCA makes the distribution of "circumvention devices" illegal. Especially if you take the agreed statements concerning article 12 into account. (http://www.wipo.int/treaties/ip/copyright/statements.html) Dave -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From david.haworth at altavista.net Tue Jul 31 00:31:54 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: [sklyarov-chicago] Legal addition to flyers In-Reply-To: <01073015114802.26152@stumpy>; from krw5@qwest.net on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 03:11:48PM -0700 References: <20010729172922.A514@foozle.turbogeek.org> <20010730021431.D21910@tastytronic.net> <3B65BFCF.7070603@kalifornia.com> <01073015114802.26152@stumpy> Message-ID: <20010731093154.B1151@3soft.de> On Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 03:11:48PM -0700, Roger Kramer wrote: > > >Quoting jmd@turbogeek.org: > > >> +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > >> > > >> | {3/4" red letter} NOTICE | > > >> | [snip] > Uh, I don't see how even the most skilled wordsmith could interpret 1201(a) > to imply the above. We'll lose credibility if we stretch things to the > breaking point and are called on it. ...But maybe I'm missing something in > 1201(a)? Well, the "effective technological measure" could be double-rot13! But how about ECITON rethO .N.A 1002 thgirypoC lacigolonhcet evitceffe eht detnevmucric evah uoy ,siht daer nac uoy fI hcihw tca na ,krow eht fo noitrop siht ot ssecca gnillortnoc serusaem noitubirtsid eht ,eromrehtruF .)a(1012 noitceS rednu elbahsinup eb yam noitceS rednu elbahsinup si noitcetorp siht tnevmucric taht secived fo .tnemnosirpmi sraey 5 ot pu dna senif 000005$ ot yb )b(1012 -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Tue Jul 31 00:31:36 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] an arrest at the san jose event last week? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Never mind on the hypothetical "arrest"; there has been a miscommunication, and the rumor quoted below is indeed FALSE. Sorry for the confusion. On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Alex Fabrikant wrote: > At the SF rally today, there was a semi-rumor regarding the police having > arrested one of ours for trespassing on Adobe's private property at the > San Jose rally on July 23rd. The version I heard was that he was arrested > at some point after the rest of the protesters took off; the name I heard > was "Evan, but not Evan Prodromou". > > At this point, this is NOT confirmed information. Can anyone confirm that > this happenned and explain exactly what actually happenned? Is this > something for everyone to be concerned about? Or did I manage to miss a > huge thread about this on one of the lists? > > -- -alexf From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Tue Jul 31 00:44:09 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Article in the NY Times (Reuters) Message-ID: http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/technology/tech-tech-hacker-dc.html James S. Huggins From FreeSklyarov at ZName.com Tue Jul 31 00:47:30 2001 From: FreeSklyarov at ZName.com (James S. Huggins (Free Sklyarov)) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Peripheral Topic: Copy Protected CDs Message-ID: http://www.nytimes.com/cnet/CNET_0-1005-200-6719912.html BMG tests copy-protection CDs James S. Huggins From moeller at scireview.de Tue Jul 31 00:49:28 2001 From: moeller at scireview.de (Erik Moeller) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WIPO Regulations In-Reply-To: <20010730212035.C53664@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <3B667F28.130.40D4317@localhost> On 30 Jul 2001, at 21:20, Jon O . wrote: > I think this is the WIPO Regulation that resulted in the DMCA: No, I have already quoted the significant section that resulted in DMCA-1201. Article 11 Contracting Parties shall provide adequate legal protection and effective legal remedies against the circumvention of effective technological measures that are used by authors in connection with the exercise of their rights under this Treaty or the Berne Convention and that restrict acts, in respect of their works, which are not authorized by the authors concerned or permitted by law. I can't see what this discussion is about? Regards, Erik -- Scientific Reviewer, Freelancer, Humanist -- Berlin/Germany Phone: +49-30-45491008 - Web: The Origins of Peace and Violence: "History is full of people who, out of fear or ignorance or the lust for power, have destroyed treasures of immeasurable value which truly belong to all of us. We must not let it happen again." -- Carl Sagan From jstyre at jstyre.com Tue Jul 31 00:48:42 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: USENIX attendees In-Reply-To: <20010731021627.F26025@lupercalia.net> References: <20010731021027.E26025@lupercalia.net> <20010731021027.E26025@lupercalia.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010731002734.00bab330@earthlink.net> At 02:16 AM 7/31/2001 -0400, David Merrill wrote: >On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 02:10:05AM -0400, David Merrill wrote: > > Who is on the list and attending the USENIX event starting August > > 15th? > >Ummm, I mean 13th. Sorry I'm cixelsyd. For starters, Robin Gross, Scott Craver, me. As well as most/all of the rest of the researchers/co-authors of "Reading Between the Lines ..." and their EFF or EFF-affiliated lawyers. The others just aren't on this list, to my knowledge. -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From jstyre at jstyre.com Tue Jul 31 00:50:01 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] just a small idea In-Reply-To: <87bsm1mv1o.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> References: <20010731022826.J26025@lupercalia.net> <20010731022826.J26025@lupercalia.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010731003520.00b20f00@earthlink.net> At 12:12 AM 7/31/2001 -0700, Klepht wrote: > >>>>> "DM" == David Merrill writes: > > DM> We're trying to organize a letter writing, petition signing > DM> presence at USENIX. I've written to Chris DiBona but haven't > DM> heard back yet, about using the Community Declaration. > > DM> And somebody here must have contacts at USENIX, right? Please > DM> pass them to me. Ellie Young, Executive Director, ellie@usenix.org John Gilmore, EFF Founder and USENIX Board Member, gnu@toad.com Avi Rubin, USENIX Board Member, >Dr. David, > >Is it too late to get some kind of B.O.F. or other room for Usenix? No. Birds-of-a-Feather Sessions (BoFs) Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday evenings Lead or attend a BoF! Meet with your peers! Present new work! Don't miss these special activities designed to maximize the value of your time at the conference. The always-popular evening Birds-of-a-Feather sessions are very informal gatherings of persons interested in a particular topic. BoFs may be scheduled during the conference at the registration desk, or in advance by contacting the USENIX Conference Department, either by phone (1.510.528.8649) or by email (conference@usenix.org). BoFs are open to all attendees. Topics will be announced at the conference. (Tuesday is Aug. 14) > I >think that would blow doors. Considering that Usenix played a big part >in Alan Cox's announcement, and all. > >Actually, was Alan Cox giving any talks? No. > I bet his room is free, and >it'd make a pretty powerful replacement. > >I've never been to Usenix, so I don't know how it works. See http://www.usenix.org/events/sec01/ It ain't cheap if you're not press, a student, or otherwise comped. -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net Tue Jul 31 01:06:15 2001 From: branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net (Branden Robinson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:42 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fax campaign: was Ashcroft asked about Sklyarov or DMCA today? Message-ID: <20010731030615.A11156@deadbeast.net> I presume C-SPAN covered the entirety of Ashcroft's confirmation hearings today, but I was unable to watch it. News reports that I have seen make no mention either of Dmitry or DMCA. Does anyone know if the subject was even vaguely broached to Ashcroft today? Even if he's not directly handling Dmitry's prosecution, Senate confirmation hearings are an important forum. Ashcroft isn't confirmed yet; if enough if us can get in touch with our Senators there may be a snowball's chance that the subject can be brought up and greatly increase the visibility of Dmity's plight. Here's a link to a list of fax numbers (probably the only real method available with the hearings already in progress) for all the current members of Congress. A few points that everyone probably already knows: 1) Only the Senate is responsible for confirmation hearings, so faxing your Representative won't do much with respect to the Ashcroft situation. Paper mail is probably preferable for non-time-critical issues, or so I have been told. 2) All Senators from a state are "at large", so it's worth it to fax both senators from your state. 3) Senators Leahy and Hatch are both promiment on the Senate Judiciary Committee, so it might be worth faxing them as well even if they don't directly represent you. While both Senators voted for the DMCA (it passed 99-0 IIRC), both of them, especially Leahy, are on the "right side" of most technology, privacy, and intellectual property issues as far as I've been able to tell over the past few years, so it is worth it to be more solicitous with them than with, say, Dianne Feinstein. (Though being hostile with any Congressman is definitely discouraged; it can't do any good.) Good luck, and apologies if someone already brought up this tactic. -- G. Branden Robinson | The key to being a Southern Debian GNU/Linux | Baptist: It ain't a sin if you branden@deadbeast.net | don't get caught. http://www.deadbeast.net/~branden/ | -- Anthony Davidson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010731/5927c800/attachment.pgp From mlc67 at columbia.edu Tue Jul 31 01:16:48 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fax campaign: was Ashcroft asked about Sklyarov or DMCA today? In-Reply-To: <20010731030615.A11156@deadbeast.net>; from branden+serrfxylnebi@deadbeast.net on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 03:06:15AM -0500 References: <20010731030615.A11156@deadbeast.net> Message-ID: <20010731011647.A1027@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> s/Ashcroft/Mueller/g; John Ashcroft is currently the US Attorney General. He was already confirmed, due to the spinelessness of Senate Democrats, shortly after Bush's inauguration. I assume you're talking about Robert Mueller, who is currently (nominally) the US Attorey for the Northern District of California, and will very soon be the director of the FBI. Also, if you don't live in a Representative's district or a Senator's state, e doesn't give a damn what you think. Yes, this is possibly unfair. But that's the way it is. mike On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 03:06:15AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: > I presume C-SPAN covered the entirety of Ashcroft's confirmation hearings > today, but I was unable to watch it. News reports that I have seen make no > mention either of Dmitry or DMCA. -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // current location: berkeley, ca, us // ph: +1 (646) 382-7220 // FREE DMITRY! See http://freesklyarov.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010731/8f3658bc/attachment.pgp From crism at maden.org Tue Jul 31 01:14:43 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fax campaign: was Mueller asked about Sklyarov or DMCA today? In-Reply-To: <20010731030615.A11156@deadbeast.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731011313.00afd840@mail.maden.org> At 01:06 31-07-2001, Branden Robinson wrote: >I presume C-SPAN covered the entirety of Ashcroft's YM "Mueller". HTH. >confirmation hearings >today, but I was unable to watch it. News reports that I have seen make no >mention either of Dmitry or DMCA. No, the press coverage hasn't focused on it either. Given that the FBI has plenty of housecleaning to do, and that Mueller wasn't involved with Dmitry's arrest at all (according to the EFF), I wouldn't count on any, either. Perhaps we can get Boucher to bring it up, but he's not on the Judicial Committee, AFAIK. -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net Tue Jul 31 01:22:50 2001 From: branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net (Branden Robinson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fax campaign: was Mueller asked about Sklyarov or DMCA today? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731011313.00afd840@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <20010731032250.A11374@deadbeast.net> On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 01:14:43AM -0700, Christopher R. Maden wrote: > At 01:06 31-07-2001, Branden Robinson wrote: > >I presume C-SPAN covered the entirety of Ashcroft's > > YM "Mueller". HTH. Yes, thanks; clearly I should not try to write these things in the small hours of the morning. -- G. Branden Robinson | The first thing the communists do Debian GNU/Linux | when they take over a country is to branden@deadbeast.net | outlaw cockfighting. http://www.deadbeast.net/~branden/ | -- Oklahoma State Senator John Monks -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010731/18cd55d9/attachment.pgp From SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com Tue Jul 31 01:26:10 2001 From: SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com (Rob McGee) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Usenix, was "just a small idea" In-Reply-To: <87bsm1mv1o.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>; from klepht@eleutheria.org on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 12:12:19AM -0700 References: <20010731022826.J26025@lupercalia.net> <87bsm1mv1o.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <20010731032610.C3113@hal> On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 12:12:19AM -0700, Klepht wrote about "just a small idea": > Actually, was Alan Cox giving any talks? I bet his room is free, and > it'd make a pretty powerful replacement. I would suggest to the Usenix people that they play up Alan's absence. A strtegically placed empty chair. A quiet room, "Alan's room", with no activity, maybe only some flyers and information about Dmitri. Hey, while they're at it, maybe there should be a chair for Dmitri too. Under DMCA there will be more empty chairs next time around. The "absent hero" is a tried and true dramatic device for getting a point across quietly yet forcefully. Rob - /dev/rob0 From branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net Tue Jul 31 01:29:21 2001 From: branden+serrfxylnebi at deadbeast.net (Branden Robinson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:43 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fax campaign: was Ashcroft asked about Sklyarov or DMCA today? In-Reply-To: <20010731011647.A1027@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <20010731032921.A11416@deadbeast.net> On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 01:16:48AM -0700, mike castleman wrote: > s/Ashcroft/Mueller/g; Thanks for the correction, had in invalid pointer in my brain. Or maybe I just have trouble telling Bad Old Conservatives apart. > Also, if you don't live in a Representative's district or a Senator's > state, e doesn't give a damn what you think. Yes, this is possibly > unfair. But that's the way it is. I've actually heard mixed opinions on this when it comes to Senators, but not being an experienced activist I have no first-hand information to go on. That said, does this seem like a useful tactic? If so I can provide a URL to the text of the fax I'll be sending to my Senators (Bayh and Lugar). -- G. Branden Robinson | One man's theology is another man's Debian GNU/Linux | belly laugh. branden@deadbeast.net | -- Robert Heinlein http://www.deadbeast.net/~branden/ | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010731/b347b755/attachment.pgp From rsperberg at yahoo.com Tue Jul 31 04:51:46 2001 From: rsperberg at yahoo.com (Roger Sperberg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe ackbowledges effect of boycott and protests Message-ID: A story appeared in the San Jose Mercury News regarding Adobe's financials for the quarter, "Adobe's Sales Lag...". The interesting part was at the end, where the company president acknowledged the effect of the protests on their actions: http://www0.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/depth/adobe073101.htm The economy was not Adobe's only worry in July. The company's image took a beating after Adobe encouraged the federal government to prosecute Elcom, a Russian company that had distributed code to crack the security features in Adobe's software for electronic documents. On July 16 at a hacker convention in Las Vegas, the FBI arrested Dmitry Sklyarov, a young Russian programmer who works for the Moscow-based company. The grass roots response in the software developer community was quick and furious. A Web site, www.boycottadobe.org, sprung up, and developers began planning protests. A week after the arrest, Adobe was calling for Sklyarov's release. The U.S. Attorney's office has said it still plans to prosecute him. ``That was a good learning experience for me personally,'' Chizen said. ``All we were trying to do at the end of the day was protect the copyright and the intellectual property of the people that use our products. It wasn't even about protecting Adobe's software.'' Chizen quickly learned that Adobe had stepped in something unpleasant. ``Last Monday, which was the height of the activity, I think I counted up to 1,700 e-mails that I had gotten throughout the week,'' Chizen said. Since Adobe began advocating for Sklyarov's release, he said the number has come down to a couple per day. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010731/74a01bc1/attachment.htm From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Jul 31 05:23:45 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WIPO Regulations In-Reply-To: ; from marvin@qubit.computershop.calgary.ab.ca on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 12:20:08AM -0700 References: <20010730212035.C53664@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010731052345.F1249@zork.net> Austin Hook writes: > Re: WIPO language (caution: IANAL) > > Condensing (cutting and pasting) to the critical point (see original > quoted text at the bottom): > > > (1) Contracting Parties shall provide effective legal remedies against > > any person knowingly altering any electronic rights management > > information [while also] knowing that it will facilitate an > > infringement of any right covered by this Treaty or the Berne > > Convention > > However, if rights management information is merely the author and > copyright ownership information, along with a list of the rights that are > intended to be conveyed, then so long as that information is not damaged, > it is not necessary under WIPO to forbid removing associated encryption or > usage crippling technology. > > The thrust of it seems to make illegal the act of the first person who > removes the copyright ownership or terms of use information, and doing > that so to cause the material to get into circulation without the > copyright information being attached. It doesn't seem to worry about > transformations that do not alter the "[Copy]rights Management > Information" (CMI), even if they facilitate a second person doing such a > nasty thing. It's the stage at which the CMI itself is damaged, rather > than the technological protections surrounding it, where legal action is > called for. However, there is _another_ WIPO treaty which actually has the technology-based anticircumvention rules. The above language is not the basis for the anticircumvention provisions in the U.S. DMCA. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From david at lupercalia.net Tue Jul 31 05:53:04 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: USENIX attendees In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010731002734.00bab330@earthlink.net>; from jstyre@jstyre.com on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 12:48:20AM -0700 References: <20010731021027.E26025@lupercalia.net> <20010731021027.E26025@lupercalia.net> <20010731021627.F26025@lupercalia.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010731002734.00bab330@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20010731085304.D29289@lupercalia.net> On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 12:48:20AM -0700, James S. Tyre wrote: > At 02:16 AM 7/31/2001 -0400, David Merrill wrote: > >On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 02:10:05AM -0400, David Merrill wrote: > > > Who is on the list and attending the USENIX event starting August > > > 15th? > > > >Ummm, I mean 13th. Sorry I'm cixelsyd. > > For starters, Robin Gross, Scott Craver, me. As well as most/all of the > rest of the researchers/co-authors of "Reading Between the Lines ..." and > their EFF or EFF-affiliated lawyers. The others just aren't on this list, > to my knowledge. Great. So to those people, when would be the best time for us to schedule a rally that week? -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca/ We have no intention of shipping another bloated OS and shoving it down the throats of our users. --Paul Maritz, former Microsoft Vice President From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Jul 31 06:12:03 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Fax campaign: was Mueller asked about Sklyarov or DMCA today? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731011313.00afd840@mail.maden.org>; from crism@maden.org on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 01:14:43AM -0700 References: <20010731030615.A11156@deadbeast.net> <5.0.2.1.0.20010731011313.00afd840@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: <20010731061203.J1249@zork.net> Christopher R. Maden writes: > No, the press coverage hasn't focused on it either. Given that the FBI has > plenty of housecleaning to do, and that Mueller wasn't involved with > Dmitry's arrest at all (according to the EFF), I wouldn't count on any, > either. Perhaps we can get Boucher to bring it up, but he's not on the > Judicial Committee, AFAIK. Nor in the Senate, even. :-) -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From larsg at eurorights.org Tue Jul 31 06:17:27 2001 From: larsg at eurorights.org (Lars Gaarden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Yahoo message boards References: <20010730203853.A53664@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <3B66AFE7.3060900@eurorights.org> Jon O . wrote: > Please help enlighten these people... > http://news.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?action=l&board=37172369&tid=nmtechhackerdc&sid=37172369&mid=69 Fair Use propaganda pods armed. Target acquired. Weapons firing, sir! http://news.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?action=m&board=37172369&tid=nmtechhackerdc&sid=37172369&mid=92 http://news.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?action=m&board=37172369&tid=nmtechhackerdc&sid=37172369&mid=91 http://news.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?action=m&board=37172369&tid=nmtechhackerdc&sid=37172369&mid=90 Does anyone have a list of all the important message boards out there? -- "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead. From david.haworth at altavista.net Tue Jul 31 06:26:35 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WIPO Regulations In-Reply-To: <20010731052345.F1249@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 05:23:45AM -0700 References: <20010730212035.C53664@networkcommand.com> <20010731052345.F1249@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010731152635.A1311@3soft.de> On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 05:23:45AM -0700, Seth David Schoen wrote: > Austin Hook writes: > > > Re: WIPO language (caution: IANAL) > > > > Condensing (cutting and pasting) to the critical point (see original > > quoted text at the bottom): > > > > > (1) Contracting Parties shall provide effective legal remedies against > > > any person knowingly altering any electronic rights management > > > information [while also] knowing that it will facilitate an > > > infringement of any right covered by this Treaty or the Berne > > > Convention > > > > However, if rights management information is merely the author and > > copyright ownership information, along with a list of the rights that are > > intended to be conveyed, then so long as that information is not damaged, > > it is not necessary under WIPO to forbid removing associated encryption or > > usage crippling technology. > > > > The thrust of it seems to make illegal the act of the first person who > > removes the copyright ownership or terms of use information, and doing > > that so to cause the material to get into circulation without the > > copyright information being attached. It doesn't seem to worry about > > transformations that do not alter the "[Copy]rights Management > > Information" (CMI), even if they facilitate a second person doing such a > > nasty thing. It's the stage at which the CMI itself is damaged, rather > > than the technological protections surrounding it, where legal action is > > called for. > > However, there is _another_ WIPO treaty which actually has the > technology-based anticircumvention rules. The above language is not > the basis for the anticircumvention provisions in the U.S. DMCA. > > -- > Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested > Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull > down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with > http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From larsg at eurorights.org Tue Jul 31 06:35:34 2001 From: larsg at eurorights.org (Lars Gaarden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology References: <13218924952.20010730175256@centras.lt> <20010731091414.A1151@3soft.de> Message-ID: <3B66B426.5030103@eurorights.org> David Haworth wrote: > It goes on to say that what happens to those copies after they've > been sold is up to individual countries. I believe the US > has a first sale doctrine that says the authors can't restrict > further sales or transfers of the copy in its original form. Too bad that WCT doesn't force worldwide exhaustion at first sale. Would have been a lot harder for the EU Copyright directive to erect a 'Festung Europa' wrt first sale if it did. > Also read articles 11 and 12, and then ask why the DMCA makes > the distribution of "circumvention devices" illegal. Especially > if you take the agreed statements concerning article 12 > into account. > (http://www.wipo.int/treaties/ip/copyright/statements.html) And that's one thing I just don't get - why did the DMCA get 1201 so wrong when it is quite obvious from the WCT and WPPT that the layer of protection added by law-protected TPMs should have the same size as copyright law itself. -- "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead. From david.haworth at altavista.net Tue Jul 31 06:41:20 2001 From: david.haworth at altavista.net (David Haworth) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WIPO Regulations In-Reply-To: <20010731052345.F1249@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 05:23:45AM -0700 References: <20010730212035.C53664@networkcommand.com> <20010731052345.F1249@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010731154120.B1311@3soft.de> [Sorry about the last reply - I hit the wrong key] Seth David Schoen wrote: > > However, there is _another_ WIPO treaty which actually has the > technology-based anticircumvention rules. The above language is not > the basis for the anticircumvention provisions in the U.S. DMCA. It's article 11 of the same treaty. Also watch out for this insidious little paragraph in article 14: "Contracting Parties shall ensure that enforcement procedures are available under their law so as to permit effective action against any act of infringement of rights covered by this Treaty, including expeditious remedies to prevent infringements and remedies which constitute a deterrent to further infringements." ... including expeditious remedies to prevent infringements ... I'm not sure this could be interpreted as a blanket permission to arrest everyone just in case they might infringe, but it's certain to crop up in defence to any challenges to DMCA. Also, the US could be considered to be in violation of the treaty. This is from the "Agreed Statements" for article 12: "It is further understood that Contracting Parties will not rely on this Article to devise or implement rights management systems that would have the effect of imposing formalities which are not permitted under the Berne Convention or this Treaty, prohibiting the free movement of goods or impeding the enjoyment of rights under this Treaty." The DMCA might not "devise or implement" such a system, but it gives legal protection to such systems. It is certainly impeding free movement of goods (exhibit A: AEBPR software from Elcomsoft), impeding the enjoyment of rights and imposing formalities not permitted by Berne convention. I feel a letter to Dr. Kamil Idris, Director General of WIPO, coming on. Seth, this is getting a little off topic for the free-sklyarov list. If you and the other subscribers prefer, we could continue privately by email, or transfer to the DMCA_discuss list. Dave -- David Haworth Baiersdorf, Germany david.haworth@altavista.net From tom at thinkpix.com Tue Jul 31 06:47:42 2001 From: tom at thinkpix.com (tom moore) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why the DMCA is anti-security and anti-privacy References: <20010730231612.H9784@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <009d01c119c7$672663c0$3e203b40@PRODUCTION> > [Rick tries to conjure up a stirring ballad about the comparative merit of > Apache and PHP on Linux or *BSD, and fails.] Deftly avoiding the temptation to overreach his talents and post a quick filk, Tom instead replies with a haiku: Links that work sometimes But expose filesystem On any error. From adunston at jetstream.com Tue Jul 31 07:15:58 2001 From: adunston at jetstream.com (Adrian Dunston) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NC Call to Protest Message-ID: Today, I'm writing to several organizations and news lists to get support for the North Carolina protest. These organizations include John Locke Foundation, Libertarian Party, Democratic Party, our senators, local authors, and local publishers. If you have a chance, please tell me if there's anything unfavorable or inaccurate in the letter: -Adrian P. Dunston *** There's a protest going on at the North Carolina State Capitol (as well as twenty other cities) on Friday at 11:30am. Details are at http://www.freesklyarov.org and http://badlaw.moongroup.org. I encourage you to come and show support. I'll give you a brief of the beef, and if you're interested you can let me know. * A Russian student is being held without bail in an Oklahoma prison for giving a speech in Las Vegas two weeks ago. * -------------------------------------------- THE SHORT VERSION According to a law that took effect last year, while Americans have specific rights to copy and use media they've legally bought (like books and movies), they cannot exercise those rights if the media has been encoded in any way. Dmitry Skylarov is the first man ever to be jailed for telling people how to decode and read a book. -------------------------------------------- THE DIGITAL MILLENIUM COPYRIGHT ACT (DMCA) 1. When the US Constitution was written, it provided Congress the power "To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;" 2. Not much later, to promote the progress of science and art, the US Congress enacted several copyright laws which included provisions for fair use for citizens. These fair use provisions state that someone who purchases a book or a CD or movie etc. can make copies and take excerpts for personal use, for educational purposes, for parodies, or for news reporting and reviewing. 3. Last year, the US Congress unanimously enacted a law supported by the publishing, recording, and film industries which makes it illegal to even posses the tools to make "fair use" of books or CDs or movies you have purchased. These industries have a lot to gain by the passage of this law and spend a lot of money on Congressional campaigns. Here's how it works. A movie isn't put onto a DVD directly like movies are put onto VHS tapes. On DVD's the movie is first encrypted or put into a special code to prevent anyone who buys the DVD from viewing or copying the movie in ways unsanctioned by the people who made it. This means that unless you buy their brand of computer software or their brand of DVD player, you cannot VIEW the movie YOU BOUGHT, let alone copy excerpts for educational, parody, or reporting purposes. In order to view the movie or a copy of the movie as you are legally allowed to do, you would have to decode the movie first, which you aren't legally allowed to do. The new law that was passed makes it illegal to even have the TOOLS to decode the movie. The movie industry wants it to be illegal to view DVD's in ways they don't know about and sanction because they want to be able to charge different prices for movies in different countries. The codes are set up so that a European DVD player cannot play an American movie, and so forth. If I were to buy a DVD of my favorite foreign cartoon from my friend in Belgium, I wouldn't be able to view it without first decoding it. This practice of making it harder for customers to exercise their fair use rights is a something movie makers have a right to. The practice of making it illegal for customers to exercise their fair use or to even publish how to exercise one's fair use is not something anyone has a right to. This is only the beginning. Books, albums, and television broadcasts are all working their way into digital form, where their customers can be crippled by this law. Eventually, none of these things will be sold, but only rented out pay-per-view style, and with this law, we will not be able to get your books, music, or movies any other way. How would you like to be forced by law to pay a fee every time you read your favorite book or every time you read a book to your children? Incidentally, the "tool" that was written to decode DVD movies was a set of computer instructions (like a recipe a computer can follow) which can be written on a napkin in seven lines. If I were to hand you this napkin, I could be fined $500,000 and sent to jail for five years. That is not a joke or an exaggeration; publishing these instructions, and exposing security flaws to the public is what the "2600 Magazine" fought a lawsuit for. -------------------------------------------- FREE SKLYAROV 1. Adobe Systems, Inc. sells a product called eBook, which is a system of encrypted books. You can buy one and download it into their sanctioned reader for use. That's it. Any other legal rights you may have from buying this book have been circumvented. 2. In Moscow, a programmer and student, Dmitry Sklyarov, trying to earn his doctorate learned how the eBook security worked, and how it could be disabled. His thesis is on the subject. Dmitry works for a company, Elcomsoft, who up until recently was selling a program based on Dmitry's work. This program would allow people to decode the eBooks they had bought and use them in "unintended" ways such as copying from them to paste into a book report, or running them through speech-to-voice programs for the blind. 3. Only two weeks ago, Dmitry came to the United States to give a speech at a Las Vegas conference about the flaws in eBook security and how it could be made better. Adobe Systems had heard of Dmitry's presentation at the conference, and had tipped off Federal officals that a "dangerous criminal" was going to enter the country. 4. On his way home after the conference, Dmitry Sklyarov was arrested by the FBI and charged apparantly with working for a foreign company that violated the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. Sklyarov does not head the company. He does not sell their products. He is merely a single worker within the company who does the same kind of work I do at mine. Dmitry is presently being held without bail in a foreign country on the other side of the world from his wife and two young daughters. 5. Less than a week after his arrest, protests, calls for boycotts, and a meeting with the Electronic Frontier Foundation (http://www.eff.org) had convinced Adobe Systems to withdraw their complaint. Unfortunately the DMCA is a criminal law, and the US Attorney needs no complaint to prosecute. 6. Monday, July 30th protests began in 20 US cities and Moscow for the purpose of FREEING DMITRY. Some argue that the charges are baseless. Most argue that the DMCA is an unfair and crippling law, and should be revised. Some even argue that the entire American system of copyrights needs to be rewritten to reflect not only the wishes of the publishers and movie makers, but also the rights of the American public. All agree that prosecuting Dmitry Sklyarov is harmful to the nation and the international community. -------------------------------------------- ACT QUICKLY Please act quickly to help free an innocent man, and save the US Government time, money, and embarrasment. Here is what you can do: * Read and donate to the Electronic Frontier Foundation. They foot the bill for Dmitry's and other lawsuits (http://www.eff.org) * Join Free Dmitry protests (http://www.freesklyarov.org) * Learn about the DMCA and write Congress to have it revised (http://anti-dmca.org) * Forward this email to anyone in North Carolina or the surrounding areas and encourage them to attend Raleigh's protest ( http://badlaw.moongroup.com [mailto:pedro_picasso@yahoo.com] ) -------------------------------------------- Thank you for your time. I realize there are more important problems with the world today, but with protests in 21 cities and widespread media coverage, this is one difference you and I can make right now to an innocent student and his family, and to the United States of America. -Adrian P. Dunston pedro_picasso@yahoo.com __ (sourceCode == freeSpeech) //Support the EFF. http://www.x-omega.com/shirtdept From MLarma at eFuel.com Tue Jul 31 07:23:58 2001 From: MLarma at eFuel.com (Larma, Mark) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NC Call to Protest - Anything in Charlotte?? ? Message-ID: I live in Charlotte and can't make it to Raleigh on Friday. Anyone doing anything in Charlotte? Mark Larma -----Original Message----- From: Adrian Dunston [mailto:adunston@jetstream.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 10:16 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: [free-sklyarov] NC Call to Protest Today, I'm writing to several organizations and news lists to get support for the North Carolina protest. These organizations include John Locke Foundation, Libertarian Party, Democratic Party, our senators, local authors, and local publishers. If you have a chance, please tell me if there's anything unfavorable or inaccurate in the letter: -Adrian P. Dunston *** There's a protest going on at the North Carolina State Capitol (as well as twenty other cities) on Friday at 11:30am. Details are at http://www.freesklyarov.org and http://badlaw.moongroup.org. I encourage you to come and show support. I'll give you a brief of the beef, and if you're interested you can let me know. * A Russian student is being held without bail in an Oklahoma prison for giving a speech in Las Vegas two weeks ago. * -------------------------------------------- THE SHORT VERSION According to a law that took effect last year, while Americans have specific rights to copy and use media they've legally bought (like books and movies), they cannot exercise those rights if the media has been encoded in any way. Dmitry Skylarov is the first man ever to be jailed for telling people how to decode and read a book. -------------------------------------------- THE DIGITAL MILLENIUM COPYRIGHT ACT (DMCA) 1. When the US Constitution was written, it provided Congress the power "To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;" 2. Not much later, to promote the progress of science and art, the US Congress enacted several copyright laws which included provisions for fair use for citizens. These fair use provisions state that someone who purchases a book or a CD or movie etc. can make copies and take excerpts for personal use, for educational purposes, for parodies, or for news reporting and reviewing. 3. Last year, the US Congress unanimously enacted a law supported by the publishing, recording, and film industries which makes it illegal to even posses the tools to make "fair use" of books or CDs or movies you have purchased. These industries have a lot to gain by the passage of this law and spend a lot of money on Congressional campaigns. Here's how it works. A movie isn't put onto a DVD directly like movies are put onto VHS tapes. On DVD's the movie is first encrypted or put into a special code to prevent anyone who buys the DVD from viewing or copying the movie in ways unsanctioned by the people who made it. This means that unless you buy their brand of computer software or their brand of DVD player, you cannot VIEW the movie YOU BOUGHT, let alone copy excerpts for educational, parody, or reporting purposes. In order to view the movie or a copy of the movie as you are legally allowed to do, you would have to decode the movie first, which you aren't legally allowed to do. The new law that was passed makes it illegal to even have the TOOLS to decode the movie. The movie industry wants it to be illegal to view DVD's in ways they don't know about and sanction because they want to be able to charge different prices for movies in different countries. The codes are set up so that a European DVD player cannot play an American movie, and so forth. If I were to buy a DVD of my favorite foreign cartoon from my friend in Belgium, I wouldn't be able to view it without first decoding it. This practice of making it harder for customers to exercise their fair use rights is a something movie makers have a right to. The practice of making it illegal for customers to exercise their fair use or to even publish how to exercise one's fair use is not something anyone has a right to. This is only the beginning. Books, albums, and television broadcasts are all working their way into digital form, where their customers can be crippled by this law. Eventually, none of these things will be sold, but only rented out pay-per-view style, and with this law, we will not be able to get your books, music, or movies any other way. How would you like to be forced by law to pay a fee every time you read your favorite book or every time you read a book to your children? Incidentally, the "tool" that was written to decode DVD movies was a set of computer instructions (like a recipe a computer can follow) which can be written on a napkin in seven lines. If I were to hand you this napkin, I could be fined $500,000 and sent to jail for five years. That is not a joke or an exaggeration; publishing these instructions, and exposing security flaws to the public is what the "2600 Magazine" fought a lawsuit for. -------------------------------------------- FREE SKLYAROV 1. Adobe Systems, Inc. sells a product called eBook, which is a system of encrypted books. You can buy one and download it into their sanctioned reader for use. That's it. Any other legal rights you may have from buying this book have been circumvented. 2. In Moscow, a programmer and student, Dmitry Sklyarov, trying to earn his doctorate learned how the eBook security worked, and how it could be disabled. His thesis is on the subject. Dmitry works for a company, Elcomsoft, who up until recently was selling a program based on Dmitry's work. This program would allow people to decode the eBooks they had bought and use them in "unintended" ways such as copying from them to paste into a book report, or running them through speech-to-voice programs for the blind. 3. Only two weeks ago, Dmitry came to the United States to give a speech at a Las Vegas conference about the flaws in eBook security and how it could be made better. Adobe Systems had heard of Dmitry's presentation at the conference, and had tipped off Federal officals that a "dangerous criminal" was going to enter the country. 4. On his way home after the conference, Dmitry Sklyarov was arrested by the FBI and charged apparantly with working for a foreign company that violated the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. Sklyarov does not head the company. He does not sell their products. He is merely a single worker within the company who does the same kind of work I do at mine. Dmitry is presently being held without bail in a foreign country on the other side of the world from his wife and two young daughters. 5. Less than a week after his arrest, protests, calls for boycotts, and a meeting with the Electronic Frontier Foundation (http://www.eff.org) had convinced Adobe Systems to withdraw their complaint. Unfortunately the DMCA is a criminal law, and the US Attorney needs no complaint to prosecute. 6. Monday, July 30th protests began in 20 US cities and Moscow for the purpose of FREEING DMITRY. Some argue that the charges are baseless. Most argue that the DMCA is an unfair and crippling law, and should be revised. Some even argue that the entire American system of copyrights needs to be rewritten to reflect not only the wishes of the publishers and movie makers, but also the rights of the American public. All agree that prosecuting Dmitry Sklyarov is harmful to the nation and the international community. -------------------------------------------- ACT QUICKLY Please act quickly to help free an innocent man, and save the US Government time, money, and embarrasment. Here is what you can do: * Read and donate to the Electronic Frontier Foundation. They foot the bill for Dmitry's and other lawsuits (http://www.eff.org) * Join Free Dmitry protests (http://www.freesklyarov.org) * Learn about the DMCA and write Congress to have it revised (http://anti-dmca.org) * Forward this email to anyone in North Carolina or the surrounding areas and encourage them to attend Raleigh's protest ( http://badlaw.moongroup.com [mailto:pedro_picasso@yahoo.com] ) -------------------------------------------- Thank you for your time. I realize there are more important problems with the world today, but with protests in 21 cities and widespread media coverage, this is one difference you and I can make right now to an innocent student and his family, and to the United States of America. -Adrian P. Dunston pedro_picasso@yahoo.com __ (sourceCode == freeSpeech) //Support the EFF. http://www.x-omega.com/shirtdept _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _________________________________________________________________________ eFuel E-Mail Confidentiality Disclaimer: The information contained in this e-mail is privileged and confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) indicated above. Use or disclosure of information e-mailed in error is respectfully prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and immediately delete the original message. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010731/b53a1fe2/attachment.html From adunston at jetstream.com Tue Jul 31 08:01:26 2001 From: adunston at jetstream.com (Adrian Dunston) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NC Call to Protest - Anything in Charlotte?? ? Message-ID: >From: Larma, Mark [mailto:MLarma@eFuel.com] >I live in Charlotte and can't make it to Raleigh on Friday. Anyone doing anything in >Charlotte? Mark, I'm afraid there isn't currently any initiative under way in Charlotte. If you wanted to put a Charlotte protest together, we would support you, but I think a more unified NC effort would be better. Some things you could do are: * Try to organize a caravan for the three hour drive to Raleigh. * Have a party or gathering to write our North Carolina Congressmen. Representative Howard Coble from District 6 introduced the DMCA in the first place. (http://www.house.gov/coble/, http://www.moongroup.org). * Notify Charlotte news teams and political organizations of the issue. Again, if there's any way we here can support you, please let us know. Heck, I'll pay for your gas if you can make the drive. -Adrian P. Dunston __ (sourceCode == freeSpeech) //Support the EFF. http://www.x-omega.com/shirtdept From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Jul 31 09:07:40 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WIPO Regulations In-Reply-To: <20010731052345.F1249@zork.net> References: <20010730212035.C53664@networkcommand.com> <20010731052345.F1249@zork.net> Message-ID: <878zh5kroz.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> >>>>> "SDS" == Seth David Schoen writes: >> Re: WIPO language (caution: IANAL) WIPO MY IANUSO! ~KLEPHT -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From mw at themail.com Tue Jul 31 09:07:02 2001 From: mw at themail.com (mw@themail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Oklahoma prison Message-ID: <200107311206112.SM00201@mail.TheMail.com> confirmed 5 minutes ago. Dmitry is still in OK. he will get 3 stamps tomorrow. He can not get any canteen until transferred. Anything he has now, will likely be taken from him when he is transferred...even his "clothes". Of course he'll get some new ones... maybe a fast, at least a prayer is in order... poor dmitry. __________________________________________________________________ TheMail.com - Full featured premium email you can count on. Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ From evan at onepaper.com Mon Jul 30 02:52:23 2001 From: evan at onepaper.com (Evan Edwards) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:45 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Florida Protests? Message-ID: <01073005522303.01392@riffraff> This message is being posted from a non-list member, but I've been searching this list regularly for the term "Florida", and haven't had any results. If anybody in South Florida, or possibly Central Florida, is planning any sort of protest, or is just thinking about protesting, feel free to contact me at freedmitry@timewarp.org for at least one body, probably a few others that I can scrape up. -- Evan From proclus at iname.com Tue Jul 31 09:33:22 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (proclus@iname.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WIPO Regulations In-Reply-To: <3B667F28.130.40D4317@localhost> Message-ID: <200107311633.f6VGXNU11804@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> On 31 Jul, Erik Moeller wrote: > Article 11 > > Contracting Parties shall provide adequate legal protection and > effective legal remedies against the circumvention of effective > technological measures that are used by authors in connection with > the exercise of their rights under this Treaty or the Berne > Convention and that restrict acts, in respect of their works, which > are not authorized by the authors concerned or permitted by law. > > I can't see what this discussion is about? Fair use is permitted by law, but prevented by the technological measures. It is a clear over-step. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > > Regards, > Erik > -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From rms at privacyfoundation.org Tue Jul 31 09:32:57 2001 From: rms at privacyfoundation.org (Richard M. Smith) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why the DMCA is anti-security and anti-privacy In-Reply-To: <20010730231612.H9784@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <00c101c119de$75ab9de0$6501a8c0@tiac.net> The Web page has now been fixed. Our hosting service was doing some "clean-up" and broke most of the Web site. Grrr........ Richard -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net] On Behalf Of Rick Moen Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 2:16 AM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Why the DMCA is anti-security and anti-privacy begin Richard M. Smith quotation: > The Privacy Foundation has just posted an article of mine on why the > DMCA is bad for security and privacy research. The URL for the > article > is: > > http://www.privacyfoundation.org/commentary/tipsheet.asp?id=47&action= > 0 Where one gets: Microsoft VBScript runtime error '800a01ad' ActiveX component can't create object D:\WEBDOCS\PRIVACYFOUNDATION\WWWROOT\COMMENTARY\../privacy_editorial.inc , line 1 [Rick tries to conjure up a stirring ballad about the comparative merit of Apache and PHP on Linux or *BSD, and fails.] -- Cheers, My pid is Inigo Montoya. You kill -9 Rick Moen my parent process. Prepare to vi. rick@linuxmafia.com _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From debug at centras.lt Tue Jul 31 10:01:25 2001 From: debug at centras.lt (DeBug) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WIPO Regulations In-Reply-To: <200107311633.f6VGXNU11804@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> References: <200107311633.f6VGXNU11804@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <1297190539.20010731190125@centras.lt> pic> Fair use is permitted by law, but prevented by the technological pic> measures. It is a clear over-step. I must disagree it is being over-step. If you can protect your software - do it. Nothing wrong with that. However i think if someone else cracks it there is noone to blame but yourself. -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt From tom at thinkpix.com Tue Jul 31 10:17:02 2001 From: tom at thinkpix.com (tom moore) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WIPO Regulations References: <200107311633.f6VGXNU11804@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> <1297190539.20010731190125@centras.lt> Message-ID: <015001c119e4$a4df73b0$3e203b40@PRODUCTION> > I must disagree it is being over-step. Not so: 1) You have a right to read Document A 2) I encrypt Document A, rendering it unreadable to you. 3) You have no right to decrypt Document A Now, 2 & 3 work together so that you can no longer exercise your rights under 1. Since 2 and 3 are later additions, they're effectively nullifying 1... Thus, although they do not explicitly counteract 1, by over-stepping their bounds they implicitly do so. From kris at firstworld.net Tue Jul 31 10:14:23 2001 From: kris at firstworld.net (Kris) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WIPO Regulations In-Reply-To: <1297190539.20010731190125@centras.lt> References: <200107311633.f6VGXNU11804@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> <200107311633.f6VGXNU11804@pico.mbg.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010731100522.011c8f30@pop.firstworld.net> At 07:01 PM 7/31/2001 +0200, DeBug wrote: >pic> Fair use is permitted by law, but prevented by the technological >pic> measures. It is a clear over-step. > >I must disagree it is being over-step. If you can protect your >software - do it. Nothing wrong with that. >However i think if someone else cracks it there is noone to >blame but yourself. Yes, there is little we can do to prevent companies from encrypting their content. However, copyright law is designed to reward the creator of content with a limited monopoly, after which the content will become public domain. One could therefore make the argument that since encrypted content is unlikely to enter the public domain, it should not be deserving of copyright protection. Kris From MLarma at eFuel.com Tue Jul 31 10:16:27 2001 From: MLarma at eFuel.com (Larma, Mark) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:46 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] WIPO Regulations Message-ID: I'm with you on disagreeing about the over-step issue. I think that it is literally insane to believe that you can create better security through legislation. If things were done properly in development, this would be a non-issue. Legislation will also not make bad code suddenly good. If your design goal is security and you fail, then guess what -- you need to fix it as you obviously didn't develop it properly. The simple fact of the matter is that Dmitry did things in his country that were legal and he simply comes over and *talks* about what he did and the feds and Adobe get all in a tizzy. I still don't trust Adobe to be honest -- any major company would do the same thing; get the guy in custody and then back off from that statement when it is too late. You get the person going through what Dmitry is going through (unjustly I might add) and try to come out looking like a good guy. I don't buy it. Mark Larma -----Original Message----- From: DeBug [mailto:debug@centras.lt] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 1:01 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re[2]: [free-sklyarov] WIPO Regulations pic> Fair use is permitted by law, but prevented by the technological pic> measures. It is a clear over-step. I must disagree it is being over-step. If you can protect your software - do it. Nothing wrong with that. However i think if someone else cracks it there is noone to blame but yourself. -- Best regards, DeBug mailto:debug@centras.lt _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _________________________________________________________________________ eFuel E-Mail Confidentiality Disclaimer: The information contained in this e-mail is privileged and confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) indicated above. Use or disclosure of information e-mailed in error is respectfully prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and immediately delete the original message. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010731/5dbfe535/attachment.htm From nick at zork.net Tue Jul 31 10:23:25 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Phil Zimmermann, Controversial Encryption Programmer, and Outspoken Privacy Advocate Message-ID: <20010731102325.E14270@zork.net> This gentleman was at the rally yesterday and asked me to post this on his behalf. He told me that Zimmerman will be speaking about the Dmitry case, among other things. ----- Forwarded message from Ira Victor ----- Hello Nick, It was a real pleasure to meet you this afternoon at the Dmitry rally. As you may recall, I am the Co-Chair of the Software Developer's Forum Committee on Internet Privacy and Security. We are organizing Phil Zimmermann's (creator of PGP) appearance tomorrow in San Francisco. As you also may know, the Dmitry story is part of a much bigger story that involves the expansion of FBI into people's private affairs. For example: The FBI is now getting personal information off of people's computers WITHOUT first getting a warrant. The FBI got the PGP pass-code via a "wire-tap," but without a warrant ( see: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20010728/aponline122313_000.htm ). Unchecked, this could be VERY chilling to free speech. For example, a press sources that wish to remain anonymous. Below is the press release about Phil. Please contact me if you have any questions. Please let me know when you put this on your site. Best regards, Ira Victor 415-826-0111 ### Rare Bay Area Appearance By Phil Zimmermann, Controversial Encryption Programmer, and Outspoken Privacy Advocate A decade ago, Philip R. Zimmermann released an encryption program, Pretty Good Privacy (PGP). As a result, the Federal government charged him with violations of the Arms Export Control Act for munitions trafficking. The government held that U.S. national security was jeopardized when PGP was spread around the world as free encryption software. The case against Phil Zimmermann continued for three years. PGP became the most widely used email encryption software in the world, and the government eventually dropped their case against Phil Zimmerman. Phil Zimmerman will make a rare appearance on Tuesday, July 31st in San Francisco to talk about encryption and his belief that the federal government is attempting to control the free speech of programmers through the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). The event is hosted by the non-profit Software Development Forum (SDForum). The event begins at 6:30PM and will be held at ServOn, 650 Townsend, Suite 252 (8th and Townsend), San Francisco. Admission is $10 for non-SDForum members and the event is open to the public. For more information: http://www.SDForum.org ### ----- End forwarded message ----- -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From rabbi at quickie.net Tue Jul 31 10:42:36 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Phil Zimmermann, Controversial Encryption Programmer, and Outspoken Privacy Advocate In-Reply-To: <20010731102325.E14270@zork.net> Message-ID: I love how people can spell his name two different ways in their press release. On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Nick Moffitt wrote: > This gentleman was at the rally yesterday and asked me to post this on > his behalf. He told me that Zimmerman will be speaking about the > Dmitry case, among other things. > > ----- Forwarded message from Ira Victor ----- > > Hello Nick, > It was a real pleasure to meet you this afternoon at the Dmitry rally. > As you may recall, I am the Co-Chair of the Software Developer's Forum > Committee on Internet Privacy and Security. We are organizing Phil > Zimmermann's (creator of PGP) appearance tomorrow in San Francisco. > As you also may know, the Dmitry story is part of a much bigger story > that involves the expansion of FBI into people's private affairs. > > For example: The FBI is now getting personal information off of > people's computers WITHOUT first getting a warrant. The FBI got the > PGP pass-code via a "wire-tap," but without a warrant ( see: > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20010728/aponline122313_000.htm > ). Unchecked, this could be VERY chilling to free speech. For > example, a press sources that wish to remain anonymous. > > Below is the press release about Phil. Please contact me if you have > any questions. Please let me know when you put this on your site. > > Best regards, > Ira Victor > 415-826-0111 > > ### > Rare Bay Area Appearance By Phil Zimmermann, Controversial Encryption > Programmer, and Outspoken Privacy Advocate > > A decade ago, Philip R. Zimmermann released an encryption program, > Pretty Good Privacy (PGP). As a result, the Federal government > charged him with violations of the Arms Export Control Act for > munitions trafficking. The government held that U.S. national > security was jeopardized when PGP was spread around the world as free > encryption software. The case against Phil Zimmermann continued for > three years. PGP became the most widely used email encryption software > in the world, and the government eventually dropped their case against > Phil Zimmerman. > > Phil Zimmerman will make a rare appearance on Tuesday, July 31st in > San Francisco to talk about encryption and his belief that the federal > government is attempting to control the free speech of programmers > through the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). The event is > hosted by the non-profit Software Development Forum (SDForum). The > event begins at 6:30PM and will be held at ServOn, 650 Townsend, Suite > 252 (8th and Townsend), San Francisco. Admission is $10 for > non-SDForum members and the event is open to the public. > > For more information: http://www.SDForum.org > > ### > > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > -- > "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very > slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda > 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! > ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From nick at zork.net Tue Jul 31 10:44:16 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Phil Zimmermann, Controversial Encryption Programmer, and Outspoken Privacy Advocate In-Reply-To: ; from rabbi@quickie.net on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 10:42:36AM -0700 References: <20010731102325.E14270@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010731104416.G14270@zork.net> Begin Len Sassaman quotation: > I love how people can spell his name two different ways in their press > release. Gar. Given that I've also got an improbable double letter at the end of MY last name, you'd think that I would be more sensitive to that. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From proclus at iname.com Tue Jul 31 10:53:35 2001 From: proclus at iname.com (Michael L. Love) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] MSNBC story Message-ID: <3B66F09F.50206@iname.com> Sorry if this is a double post. Here is another story that you can rate for ranking. MSNBC: Digital copyright act harms research http://www.msnbc.com/news/607194.asp?0dm=C12PT&cp1=1 Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Jul 31 11:16:39 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Interviews at FTC: 3 day latency Message-ID: <20010731111639.I719@zork.net> A journalist just told me > I spoke to the Federal Transfer Center people in Oklahoma City... they > were very nice and helpful... but said it would talk at least 3 days > to get approval for the interview... and Dmitry could leave Oklahomaway > before then [...] This is worth knowing if anybody here is a journalist who was considering trying to do an interview with Sklyarov out there. -- Seth David Schoen | Lending, printing, copying, giving Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and text-to-speech are permissions down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by the publisher. -- Adobe From drumz at best.com Tue Jul 31 11:48:21 2001 From: drumz at best.com (Ethan Straffin) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] MSNBC story In-Reply-To: <3B66F09F.50206@iname.com> from "Michael L. Love" at "Jul 31, 1 01:53:35 pm" Message-ID: <200107311848.LAA21720@shell3.ba.best.com> proclus writes: > Here is another story that you can rate for ranking. > > MSNBC: Digital copyright act harms research > http://www.msnbc.com/news/607194.asp?0dm=C12PT&cp1=1 I especially like this paragraph: -- Let?s say a researcher suspects that a computer media player is acting as spyware - reporting back to the vendor what songs or movies are being played on the player, without disclosing that fact. Under the DMCA, the researcher must first obtain permission from the vendor before decrypting the transmissions. The researcher must then give the results to the company, and the results cannot be published or made available to the general public unless the company says O.K. If the vendor doesn?t give research permission in the first place, the researcher is forbidden from using decryption tools to discover whether or not the vendor is acting in good faith. Having seen countless examples of companies saying one thing about privacy and doing the opposite, I find this particular DMCA restriction outrageous. -- As focused as I am on fair use, I hadn't fully considered this privacy angle, though it now seems obvious. I think this could be a really good point to make in our evangelization to the general public; it can be explained without too much technical gobbeldygook, and it hits them where they live if they're at all concerned about their privacy. Ethan -- "No man, woman, or child is safe when Congress is in session." -- Will Rogers From SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com Tue Jul 31 12:03:37 2001 From: SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com (Rob McGee) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NC Call to Protest In-Reply-To: ; from adunston@jetstream.com on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 07:15:58AM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010731140337.D3113@hal> On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 07:15:58AM -0700, Adrian Dunston wrote: > authors, and local publishers. If you have a chance, please tell me if > there's anything unfavorable or inaccurate in the letter: Sure! > -------------------------------------------- > THE SHORT VERSION > > According to a law that took effect last year, while Americans have specific > rights to copy and use media they've legally bought (like books and movies), > they cannot exercise those rights if the media has been encoded in any way. > Dmitry Skylarov is the first man ever to be jailed for telling people how to > decode and read a book. > -------------------------------------------- A typo -- the letters transliterate as s-k-l-(soft sign, no translitera- tion)-ya-r-o-v. I notice you have it typed correctly in other instances, but maybe this will help with your pronunciation. BTW, the first name "Dmitri" or "Dmitry" is equally correct. "Dimitry" is not as correct; the short "i" has been added in to make it feel less awkward for English speakers to pronounce it. Also, I doubt that's really true. A lot of people have been jailed and even murdered by gov'ts for a lot of crazy reasons. Yes, even the great USA does stuff like that all the time, past and present. > 4. On his way home after the conference, Dmitry Sklyarov was arrested by > the FBI and charged apparantly with working for a foreign company that > violated the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. Sklyarov does not head the > company. He does not sell their products. He is merely a single worker > within the company who does the same kind of work I do at mine. Dmitry is > presently being held without bail in a foreign country on the other side of > the world from his wife and two young daughters. I've read that the older child is a son. But I can't say definitively. (I've also seen reports that he is 26 and 27; don't know which is true.) > -------------------------------------------- > ACT QUICKLY > > Please act quickly to help free an innocent man, and save the US Government > time, money, and embarrasment. Here is what you can do: Why would we want to save time, money, and embarrassment for the US gov't? This DMCA crap is not an aberration of an otherwise good and just system. It is the typical behavior of a tyranny. I recognize that few of you will agree with me, but perhaps over time, as you see things like this and have some similar experiences of your own, you will learn what I have learned. I have no more allegiance to the USA than Anne Frank had to the Nazis (and I know firsthand what her life under Hitler was like. The boot prints on my door remind me daily.) > * Read and donate to the Electronic Frontier Foundation. They foot the bill > for Dmitry's and other lawsuits (http://www.eff.org) ^defense Dmitri is not yet a party to a lawsuit AFAIK, and he may never be. > Thank you for your time. I realize there are more important problems with > the world today, but with protests in 21 cities and widespread media > coverage, this is one difference you and I can make right now to an innocent > student and his family, and to the United States of America. Actually this issue is integral to what I see as the most important problems in the world, but that is wholly subjective, of course. Also, I am not so optimistic about the likelihood of this movement being able to achieve its goal of setting Dmitri free, but you *definitely* would not want to talk like that in an organizing solicitation. :) HTH and good luck with your protest. Rob - /dev/rob0 From dlefevre at iupui.edu Tue Jul 31 11:34:58 2001 From: dlefevre at iupui.edu (D. C. LeFevre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:47 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] campaign idea Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731132823.00ab8088@imap0.iupui.edu> Hey folks: We've been talking on Slashdot today about the fact that mainstream media seems asleep at the wheel on the Sklyarov story. Of course, mainstream media are pro-DMCA and have other agendas that might keep them about speaking out about this. I have an idea. One outlet that might be willing to talk about Sklyarov is NPR's "Talk of the Nation." Today, for instance, they are doing an hour about a controversial child pornography case. If they are willing to talk about first amendment cases like that, perhaps they would be willing to talk about the Sklyarov case if enough people showed interest. Why don't we start a campaign and send them some mail? Their email address is totn@npr.org. This might be a good way to get some talk in a big media outlet. Please reply directly to me, I am only on the Digest. Thanks.. -- davey **Free Dmitry Sklyarov!! Don't know the story? Ask, I'll send you the info.** D. C. LeFevre Indiana University Purdue University Indianapolis School of Informatics New Media Program http://newmedia.iupui.edu http://informatics.iupui.edu From jono at microshaft.org Tue Jul 31 12:09:11 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] campaign idea In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731132823.00ab8088@imap0.iupui.edu>; from dlefevre@iupui.edu on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 01:34:58PM -0500 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731132823.00ab8088@imap0.iupui.edu> Message-ID: <20010731120911.H58187@networkcommand.com> This is a good idea. I think we should also use the angle in that MSNBC article about spyware. I figure Windows XP is just that a big spyware OS. On 31-Jul-2001, D. C. LeFevre wrote: > Hey folks: > > We've been talking on Slashdot today about the fact that mainstream media > seems asleep at the wheel on the Sklyarov story. Of course, mainstream > media are pro-DMCA and have other agendas that might keep them about > speaking out about this. > > I have an idea. One outlet that might be willing to talk about Sklyarov is > NPR's "Talk of the Nation." Today, for instance, they are doing an hour > about a controversial child pornography case. If they are willing to talk > about first amendment cases like that, perhaps they would be willing to > talk about the Sklyarov case if enough people showed interest. > > Why don't we start a campaign and send them some mail? Their email address > is totn@npr.org. This might be a good way to get some talk in a big media > outlet. > > Please reply directly to me, I am only on the Digest. > > Thanks.. > > -- davey > > > **Free Dmitry Sklyarov!! Don't know the story? Ask, I'll send you the info.** > > D. C. LeFevre > Indiana University Purdue University Indianapolis > School of Informatics > New Media Program > http://newmedia.iupui.edu > http://informatics.iupui.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From ed at hintz.org Tue Jul 31 12:13:46 2001 From: ed at hintz.org (Edmund A. Hintz) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NC Call to Protest Message-ID: <200107311913.f6VJDjc23693@phil.hintz.org> On 7/31/01 12:03 PM, SerrQzvgev@zxmail.com thus spake: >I've read that the older child is a son. But I can't say definitively. >(I've also seen reports that he is 26 and 27; don't know which is true.) Son, 2.5yrs, daughter, 3 mos. Peace, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edmund A. Hintz **|** "You may say I'm a dreamer, Mac Techie, Linux Geek, * | * But I'm not the only one... Mac/Linux Consultant * /|\ * I hope someday you'll join us, */ | \* And the world will live as one. '78 Westy ***** Imagine." http://www.hintz.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Jul 31 12:15:32 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] campaign idea In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731132823.00ab8088@imap0.iupui.edu>; from dlefevre@iupui.edu on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 01:34:58PM -0500 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731132823.00ab8088@imap0.iupui.edu> Message-ID: <20010731121532.M719@zork.net> D. C. LeFevre writes: > Hey folks: > > We've been talking on Slashdot today about the fact that mainstream media > seems asleep at the wheel on the Sklyarov story. Of course, mainstream > media are pro-DMCA and have other agendas that might keep them about > speaking out about this. > > I have an idea. One outlet that might be willing to talk about Sklyarov is > NPR's "Talk of the Nation." Today, for instance, they are doing an hour > about a controversial child pornography case. If they are willing to talk > about first amendment cases like that, perhaps they would be willing to > talk about the Sklyarov case if enough people showed interest. > > Why don't we start a campaign and send them some mail? Their email address > is totn@npr.org. This might be a good way to get some talk in a big media > outlet. > > Please reply directly to me, I am only on the Digest. Note that NPR did a Science Friday interview on the case, which was well-received. I admit that I'd like some more national media coverage, but I think the slashdot commentators are too pessimistic. Some of the media outlets they mentioned as "ignoring" the story have already done _two_ pieces on the case! For example, someone said the New York Times had ignored it. Not so: they already ran a piece by Jenny 8. Lee and Amy Harmon; they printed Lessig's op-ed; and Jenny Lee was back at the San Francisco protest doing interviews in person, and may well run another story. Someone said NPR had ignored it. But they had that Science Friday piece last Friday or the Friday before. Our local NPR affiliate, KQED-FM, was on the scene in San Francisco Monday, and has broadcast a story. I wondered whether the Chronicle of Higher Education had covered it. Someone immediately showed me the article. In almost every case where somebody's said "Hey, why hasn't news outlet foo picked this up? They must be in the pocket of the copyright industries!" it's turned out that outlet foo actually did a story several days before. Now, I admit that I don't think this is getting coverage _in proportion to its significance_ (for example, I recall the "China frees scholars, now it's our turn" signs), but it's hard to find support for the idea that newspapers or radio stations are ignoring and suppressing the story. I'm grateful to the many reporters who've done nice and informative pieces. I hope that reporters will also read Lessig's op-ed to understand the background of the case; I'm working at EFF today, and when reporters call up, I'm asking them t be sure they've read that. Planet eBook's news page has dozens of articles about the case, and (with no disrespect to the efforts of the folks there) I'm not even sure whether they've found the majority of the news coverage out there. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From tabindak at best.com Tue Jul 31 12:22:06 2001 From: tabindak at best.com (Tabinda N. Khan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] MSNBC story In-Reply-To: <200107311848.LAA21720@shell3.ba.best.com>; from drumz@best.com on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 11:48:21AM -0700 References: <3B66F09F.50206@iname.com> <200107311848.LAA21720@shell3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <20010731122205.A21561@shell9.ba.best.com> Quoting Ethan Straffin: > Let?s say a researcher suspects that a computer media player is acting as > spyware - reporting back to the vendor what songs or movies are being > played on the player, without disclosing that fact. Under the DMCA, the > researcher must first obtain permission from the vendor before decrypting > the transmissions. The researcher must then give the results to the > company, and the results cannot be published or made available to the > general public unless the company says O.K. If the vendor doesn?t give > research permission in the first place, the researcher is forbidden from > using decryption tools to discover whether or not the vendor is acting in > good faith. This reminded me to post about another angle I've been thinking about, which is getting in consumer advocacy groups involved. Consumers Union (http://www.consumersunion.org/aboutcu/about.htm), for example, tests many consumer products for safety, reliability, comfort, etc. The results are published in the U.S.-based magazine Consumer Reports. Note here: They are a non-profit and do not benefit commercially from any of their findings and they do not accept advertising. They are also a fairly powerful and popular group in the U.S. One of their main tasks is to test product claims. They have been sued by companies in the past for pointing out problems with products. The most recent, I believe was a lawsuit brought on by Isuzu (http://www.consumersunion.org/products/verdict.htm?Isuzu), which CU won. I wonder how they would feel if they found out that they couldn't test the encryption claims on consumer products unless they got the company's permission first? Tabinda -- From jono at microshaft.org Tue Jul 31 12:30:05 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] campaign idea In-Reply-To: <20010731121532.M719@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 12:15:32PM -0700 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731132823.00ab8088@imap0.iupui.edu> <20010731121532.M719@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010731123005.I58187@networkcommand.com> I've listed all these articles here: https://www.anti-dmca.org/cgi-bin/enews.cgi I'm about to cycle the news so they won't all be there in a big list again. If you know a story that is not listed and think it should be use the "submit news" function and it will be added. Seth is right, there has been quite a bit of news coverage. I keep getting the feeling the media is battling itself. They keep writing stories but at the same time it was the media companies that wanted this in the first place. It's a journalist revolt! ;) On 31-Jul-2001, Seth David Schoen wrote: > D. C. LeFevre writes: > > > Hey folks: > > > > We've been talking on Slashdot today about the fact that mainstream media > > seems asleep at the wheel on the Sklyarov story. Of course, mainstream > > media are pro-DMCA and have other agendas that might keep them about > > speaking out about this. > > > > I have an idea. One outlet that might be willing to talk about Sklyarov is > > NPR's "Talk of the Nation." Today, for instance, they are doing an hour > > about a controversial child pornography case. If they are willing to talk > > about first amendment cases like that, perhaps they would be willing to > > talk about the Sklyarov case if enough people showed interest. > > > > Why don't we start a campaign and send them some mail? Their email address > > is totn@npr.org. This might be a good way to get some talk in a big media > > outlet. > > > > Please reply directly to me, I am only on the Digest. > > Note that NPR did a Science Friday interview on the case, which was > well-received. > > I admit that I'd like some more national media coverage, but I think > the slashdot commentators are too pessimistic. Some of the media > outlets they mentioned as "ignoring" the story have already done _two_ > pieces on the case! > > For example, someone said the New York Times had ignored it. Not so: > they already ran a piece by Jenny 8. Lee and Amy Harmon; they printed > Lessig's op-ed; and Jenny Lee was back at the San Francisco protest > doing interviews in person, and may well run another story. > > Someone said NPR had ignored it. But they had that Science Friday > piece last Friday or the Friday before. Our local NPR affiliate, > KQED-FM, was on the scene in San Francisco Monday, and has broadcast a > story. > > I wondered whether the Chronicle of Higher Education had covered it. > Someone immediately showed me the article. > > In almost every case where somebody's said "Hey, why hasn't news > outlet foo picked this up? They must be in the pocket of the > copyright industries!" it's turned out that outlet foo actually did a > story several days before. > > Now, I admit that I don't think this is getting coverage _in > proportion to its significance_ (for example, I recall the "China > frees scholars, now it's our turn" signs), but it's hard to find > support for the idea that newspapers or radio stations are ignoring > and suppressing the story. I'm grateful to the many reporters who've > done nice and informative pieces. I hope that reporters will also > read Lessig's op-ed to understand the background of the case; I'm > working at EFF today, and when reporters call up, I'm asking them t > be sure they've read that. > > Planet eBook's news page has dozens of articles about the case, and > (with no disrespect to the efforts of the folks there) I'm not even > sure whether they've found the majority of the news coverage out > there. > > -- > Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested > Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull > down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with > http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jono at microshaft.org Tue Jul 31 12:31:43 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] MSNBC story In-Reply-To: <20010731122205.A21561@shell9.ba.best.com>; from tabindak@best.com on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 12:22:06PM -0700 References: <3B66F09F.50206@iname.com> <200107311848.LAA21720@shell3.ba.best.com> <20010731122205.A21561@shell9.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <20010731123143.J58187@networkcommand.com> > This reminded me to post about another angle I've been > thinking about, which is getting in consumer advocacy groups > involved. Consumers Union (http://www.consumersunion.org/aboutcu/about.htm), > for example, tests many consumer products for safety, > reliability, comfort, etc. The results are published in the > U.S.-based magazine Consumer Reports. Note here: They are a > non-profit and do not benefit commercially from any of their > findings and they do not accept advertising. They are also a > fairly powerful and popular group in the U.S. > > One of their main tasks is to test product claims. They have > been sued by companies in the past for pointing out problems > with products. The most recent, I believe was a lawsuit > brought on by Isuzu > (http://www.consumersunion.org/products/verdict.htm?Isuzu), > which CU won. > > I wonder how they would feel if they found out that they > couldn't test the encryption claims on consumer products > unless they got the company's permission first? Do they test encryption? I think part of the problem is no large agency tests this stuff except for the FBI, NSA, etc... From jono at microshaft.org Tue Jul 31 12:58:13 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Great followup to Upside article Message-ID: <20010731125813.A59052@networkcommand.com> The verdict: Is Adobe a software thug? http://www.upside.com/On_Trial/3b6079bc1_yahoo.html From nick at zork.net Tue Jul 31 13:04:49 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] campaign idea In-Reply-To: <20010731121532.M719@zork.net>; from schoen@loyalty.org on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 12:15:32PM -0700 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731132823.00ab8088@imap0.iupui.edu> <20010731121532.M719@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010731130449.K14270@zork.net> Begin The ASCII Floating Head of Seth David Schoen quotation: > Someone said NPR had ignored it. But they had that Science Friday > piece last Friday or the Friday before. Our local NPR affiliate, > KQED-FM, was on the scene in San Francisco Monday, and has broadcast a > story. I should note that KQED-FM is only one of *three* NPR afiliates in this area, including KPFA in Berkeley (rebroadcast as KPFB in the central valley), and KALW (owned by the SF Independent School District, but run as an independent radio station that happens to announce SF's school lunch menu in the mornings and ISD meetings at night). I saw two or three people at the San Francisco protest who carried minidisc recorders or DAT rigs. It's possible that KPFA was on the scene (who are they to miss a good protest?), or that KALW happened to be in the area. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From sisgeek at yahoo.com Tue Jul 31 13:05:34 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] UK programmer letter to US Ambassador In-Reply-To: <20010728034237.A1181@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010731200534.65243.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com> what a great letter. i must point out that last time i was in a theater (in san francisco's kibuki) and someone yelled fire we all sat there continuing to watched the movie (a bugs life:), notwithstanding the smell of smoke! hopefully, sometime in the not to distant future individuals will begin rejecting cute, trite, phrases aimed at restricting our speech! (even if they are uttered by great jurists.) PS the cause of the fire was the popcorn machine - fortunately we did not miss any of the movie or our popcorn. i hope sometime in the near future individuals will begin to realize that speech, regardless of what is utter or written is protected --- Seth David Schoen wrote: > Thanks to Richard Kay for this copy of his letter to > the U.S. > Ambassador in London. > > ----- Forwarded message from Richard Kay > ----- > > [...] > > Copy of letter sent to US Ambassador in London: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Richard Kay > Senior Lecturer in Software Engineering, > Technology Innovation Centre, > University of Central England, > Perry Barr, Birmingham, B42 2SU. > Richard.Kay@uce.ac.uk > Monday 23rd July 2001 > The Ambassador, > US Embassy, > 24 Grosvenor Square > London, W1A 1AE > > Dear Ambassador, > > I am writing to express my disgust concerning the > way the FBI has conducted itself with regards to > Dmitry Sklyarov a Russian programmer now wrongfully > imprisoned in the US. > > Mr. Sklyarov gave a talk at a computer security > conference in the US on the security weaknesses of > Adobe's eBook product, which were apparently easily > discovered. Instead of thanking Mr. Sklyarov for his > work, the Adobe software company complained to the > FBI who detained Mr. Sklyarov for allegedly > violating the Digital Millenium Copyright Act > (DMCA). > > I do not dispute the principle that copyright > holders should be free to apply encryption > technology to secure their works. However, it is > obvious (thanks to Elcomsoft, the Russian company Mr > Sklyarov works for) the protection given by Adobe's > eBook products is substandard and easily overcome. > The field of study Mr Sklyarov is engaged in has > entirely legitimate usages, for example, enabling > Adobe eBook products to be used by blind people and > those with other disabilities. > > The imprisonment of Mr Sklyarov -and this use of the > DMCA - represents a threat to the freedom of > expression of programmers and software academics > everywhere, should we express our views on security > issues affecting substandard products which the DMCA > is apparently intended to protect and then be > foolish enough to visit the US. It also presents a > situation for programmers resident in the US which > denies them basic freedoms which your constitution > claims to protect. > > Software academics and programmers such as myself > can, for certain purposes, only effectively express > ourselves to our colleagues through the discussion > and publication of program source code. Suppression > of this right cannot be justified on the same or > similar grounds that make slander, libel or shouting > "Fire" in a crowded theatre offences. Those who deny > fundamental human rights of freedom of expression > become tyrants, and the countries they misrule > become police states. I might also mention that > developing competitive parts, systems or peripherals > which comply with proprietary interfaces has long > been considered fair use rather than a breach of > copyright. > > Would you imprison consumer product reviewers if > they published weaknesses in proprietary door locks > to encourage substandard lock manufacturers to > improve their products ? If not, then the DMCA must > be repealed or amended if the good reputation of the > US, as a place of freedom of expression and > democracy, is not to suffer. > > Yours sincerely, > > > > Richard Kay > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > [...] > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > -- > Seth David Schoen | Lending, > printing, copying, giving > Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | and > text-to-speech are permissions > down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | enabled by > the publisher. -- Adobe > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From crism at maden.org Tue Jul 31 13:07:08 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] campaign idea In-Reply-To: <20010731121532.M719@zork.net> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731132823.00ab8088@imap0.iupui.edu> <5.0.2.1.0.20010731132823.00ab8088@imap0.iupui.edu> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731130638.03853500@mail.maden.org> At 12:15 31-07-2001, Seth David Schoen wrote: >I admit that I'd like some more national media coverage, but I think >the slashdot commentators are too pessimistic. Some of the media >outlets they mentioned as "ignoring" the story have already done _two_ >pieces on the case! Well, yeah... it's a Jon Katz story. d-: I wondered why I hadn't noticed it. -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From mlc67 at columbia.edu Tue Jul 31 13:11:09 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] campaign idea In-Reply-To: <20010731130449.K14270@zork.net>; from nick@zork.net on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 01:04:49PM -0700 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731132823.00ab8088@imap0.iupui.edu> <20010731121532.M719@zork.net> <20010731130449.K14270@zork.net> Message-ID: <20010731131109.E6307@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> KPFA is steadfastly *not* an NPR affiliate, and is probably offended that you think they are. They're part of the Pacifica network, which owns 5 stations around the country (SF, NYC, DC, Houston, and LA). The history of Pacifica is far too long and offtopic to go into here. Still, was KPFA at either this week or last week's protest? I didn't get a chance to listen to their news, although I'm told that WBAI, the NY affiliate, did a decent story last week. If KPFA hasn't done a story yet, someone should give their newsroom a call. mike On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 01:04:49PM -0700, Nick Moffitt wrote: > I should note that KQED-FM is only one of *three* NPR > afiliates in this area, including KPFA in Berkeley (rebroadcast as > KPFB in the central valley), and KALW (owned by the SF Independent > School District, but run as an independent radio station that happens > to announce SF's school lunch menu in the mornings and ISD meetings at > night). -- // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu // current location: berkeley, ca, us // ph: +1 (646) 382-7220 // FREE DMITRY! See http://freesklyarov.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010731/6cffc88a/attachment.pgp From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Jul 31 13:15:12 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Russian anticircumvention law? Message-ID: <20010731131512.Q719@zork.net> I suspect that this poster has just misinterpreted what AEBPR is, but I wonder if anyone's familiar with the law to which he refers. http://www.upside.com/texis/mvm/discuss/+NwwFqzvx98KwKmWxzmwww0/view_discussion.html?msgid=3b5c4d8f0;p=2 -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu Tue Jul 31 17:20:06 2001 From: junger at samsara.law.cwru.edu (Peter D. Junger) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] MSNBC story In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 31 Jul 2001 12:31:43 PDT." <20010731123143.J58187@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <200108010020.f710K6x10709@samsara.law.cwru.edu> "Jon O ." writes: : > This reminded me to post about another angle I've been : > thinking about, which is getting in consumer advocacy groups : > involved. Consumers Union (http://www.consumersunion.org/aboutcu/about.htm), : > for example, tests many consumer products for safety, : > reliability, comfort, etc. The results are published in the : > U.S.-based magazine Consumer Reports. Note here: They are a : > non-profit and do not benefit commercially from any of their : > findings and they do not accept advertising. They are also a : > fairly powerful and popular group in the U.S. : > : > One of their main tasks is to test product claims. They have : > been sued by companies in the past for pointing out problems : > with products. The most recent, I believe was a lawsuit : > brought on by Isuzu : > (http://www.consumersunion.org/products/verdict.htm?Isuzu), : > which CU won. : > : > I wonder how they would feel if they found out that they : > couldn't test the encryption claims on consumer products : > unless they got the company's permission first? : : : Do they test encryption? I think part of the problem is no : large agency tests this stuff except for the FBI, NSA, etc... You may have identified an important need here. One way of satisfying it would be to have the Consumer's Union do security testing and related checks of software ahd hardware. Another way would be to form a new organization doing such checks and reporting on them for the benefit of consumers---rather than systems administrators. Since most commercial software is sold inside a shrinkwrap and cannot be tested for functionality---let alone security---it would seem that such an organization would perform a very valuable service for the public. Would the DMCA outlaw it? (Would responsible software and hardware companies fund it?---and not try to control it?) -- Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH EMAIL: junger@samsara.law.cwru.edu URL: http://samsara.law.cwru.edu NOTE: junger@pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu no longer exists From nick at zork.net Tue Jul 31 13:21:13 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:49 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] campaign idea In-Reply-To: <20010731123005.I58187@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 12:30:05PM -0700 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731132823.00ab8088@imap0.iupui.edu> <20010731121532.M719@zork.net> <20010731123005.I58187@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010731132113.L14270@zork.net> Begin Jon O . quotation: > Seth is right, there has been quite a bit of news coverage. I keep > getting the feeling the media is battling itself. They keep writing > stories but at the same time it was the media companies that wanted > this in the first place. It's a journalist revolt! ;) Okay, so here comes my little rant on the newsmedia. IANAJ. Yes, the larger media conglomerates do have conflicts of interest regarding certain news topics. If the Ramjak corporation owns WJM-TV News and a manufacturer of faulty infant carseats, they're going to be reluctant to broadcast a scathing expose on themselves. Fortunately for us, the Mary Tyler Moore types have had a long history of fighting for journalistic independence, and this is helped by the fact that free spirited journalists tend to write interesting copy. This sells papers and ad space, for the most part. So aside from the extremely high-profile stories such as the one depicted in The Insider (which, it should be noted, was a dramatization), reporters and journalists and what-have-you tend to be able to write on any topic the public will find interesting. If anything, the most likely opposition to a story would be the *advertisers*. If ads for the carseats were run during the WJM expose on the things, you'd lose ad revenue and probably get some nasty civil suits in the bargain. Now let's figure out why a news outlet might *ignore* a story. Have any of you ever submitted a story to slashdot.org? You are asked to fill out a box with your little story. HTML is allowed, but you have to get it right! The moderators see your story among hundreds of others and are able to add a pithy comment to it and shove it off to the front page. Now, if you were to e-mail it to rob malda directly, or mess up your HTML, or write a poorly-worded description of the issue, or even misclassify the story, they'd have no inclination to go to the trouble of fixing it up before posting. They see hundreds if not thousands of submissions per day, and the amount of attention given to each one is miniscule. Traditional media outlets work in a similar way. Actually sending someone on site to cover something is far more expensive than building a story out of press releases. Press releases are like the story you type in the little slashdot box: you give a well-written easily-digested news article with no unreasonable claims or glaring errors, and the paper or magazine can easily transform it into column inches. Now, to get on the front page of the New York Times, you'll need much more than just a press release, but if you want to get your story out there, it does help. At the protest, we had a lot of on-site reporters and journalists. We had TV crews, audio recordings, and people scribbling madly onto legal pads. These were people who had already read our press releases and announcements, and found that there was likely more story to tell if they just investigated a little. But, as Seth says, we have *not* been ignored! -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From nick at zork.net Tue Jul 31 13:22:13 2001 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] campaign idea In-Reply-To: <20010731131109.E6307@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu>; from mlc67@columbia.edu on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 01:11:09PM -0700 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731132823.00ab8088@imap0.iupui.edu> <20010731121532.M719@zork.net> <20010731130449.K14270@zork.net> <20010731131109.E6307@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <20010731132213.M14270@zork.net> Begin mike castleman quotation: > KPFA is steadfastly *not* an NPR affiliate, and is probably offended > that you think they are. They're part of the Pacifica network, which > owns 5 stations around the country (SF, NYC, DC, Houston, and LA). The > history of Pacifica is far too long and offtopic to go into here. Of course, you're right. They're a local public radio station. My very very bad. -- "The only thing is certain: Russian petty computer hooligans are very slovenly, while FBI agents are very persistent in hunting them." --Pravda 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From jono at microshaft.org Tue Jul 31 13:23:35 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] campaign idea In-Reply-To: <20010731131109.E6307@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu>; from mlc67@columbia.edu on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 01:11:09PM -0700 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731132823.00ab8088@imap0.iupui.edu> <20010731121532.M719@zork.net> <20010731130449.K14270@zork.net> <20010731131109.E6307@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <20010731132335.B59052@networkcommand.com> I can confirm their was a woman there from KQED taking statements. She said they were for KQED and possibly NPR. However, it seems like she was late because she wanted to have everyone chant again so she could get it on tape. On 31-Jul-2001, mike castleman wrote: > KPFA is steadfastly *not* an NPR affiliate, and is probably offended > that you think they are. They're part of the Pacifica network, which > owns 5 stations around the country (SF, NYC, DC, Houston, and LA). The > history of Pacifica is far too long and offtopic to go into here. > > Still, was KPFA at either this week or last week's protest? I didn't > get a chance to listen to their news, although I'm told that WBAI, the > NY affiliate, did a decent story last week. If KPFA hasn't done a > story yet, someone should give their newsroom a call. > > mike > > On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 01:04:49PM -0700, Nick Moffitt wrote: > > I should note that KQED-FM is only one of *three* NPR > > afiliates in this area, including KPFA in Berkeley (rebroadcast as > > KPFB in the central valley), and KALW (owned by the SF Independent > > School District, but run as an independent radio station that happens > > to announce SF's school lunch menu in the mornings and ISD meetings at > > night). > > -- > // mike castleman, mlc67@columbia.edu > // current location: berkeley, ca, us > // ph: +1 (646) 382-7220 > // FREE DMITRY! See http://freesklyarov.org/ From tabindak at best.com Tue Jul 31 13:27:29 2001 From: tabindak at best.com (Tabinda N. Khan) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] MSNBC story -- Consumer rights In-Reply-To: <20010731123143.J58187@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 12:31:43PM -0700 References: <3B66F09F.50206@iname.com> <200107311848.LAA21720@shell3.ba.best.com> <20010731122205.A21561@shell9.ba.best.com> <20010731123143.J58187@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010731132729.A10504@shell9.ba.best.com> Quoting Jon O .: > Do they test encryption? I think part of the problem is no > large agency tests this stuff except for the FBI, NSA, etc... Not that I've heard of. They are consumer-oriented and it seems that encryption has not inserted itself into the minds of most Americans when they think of consumer products. But I was thinking more generally. They have a history of breaking products the manufacturers deemed unbreakable, the are free speech advocates, they are willing to take on large corporations, and they have been reviewing PCs, DVD players, etc. for some time. They might be persuaded to take action if they realized that it was illegal for them to test consumer products in the future to check privacy claims, for example, even if they aren't testing them in that manner now. Tabinda -- From jono at microshaft.org Tue Jul 31 13:52:12 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] MSNBC story In-Reply-To: <200108010020.f710K6x10709@samsara.law.cwru.edu>; from junger@samsara.law.cwru.edu on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 08:20:06PM -0400 References: <20010731123143.J58187@networkcommand.com> <200108010020.f710K6x10709@samsara.law.cwru.edu> Message-ID: <20010731135212.C59052@networkcommand.com> > : > : Do they test encryption? I think part of the problem is no > : large agency tests this stuff except for the FBI, NSA, etc... > > You may have identified an important need here. One way of satisfying > it would be to have the Consumer's Union do security testing and > related checks of software ahd hardware. Another way would be to form > a new organization doing such checks and reporting on them for the > benefit of consumers---rather than systems administrators. > > Since most commercial software is sold inside a shrinkwrap and cannot > be tested for functionality---let alone security---it would seem that > such an organization would perform a very valuable service for the > public. > > Would the DMCA outlaw it? > You are right on the money with this one. I do network security as work. Vulnerabilites in software are often just "found" and/or researched by independent people or sometimes security teams. If these people either organized and got some kind of funding or, offered to write reports and do testing for consumer groups this could really work. Everyone in the security industry always complains people do vulnerability research and never get paid. It was only recently that it became normal to "give credit" to a vulneribility by the company who made the hole in the first place. I bet these people would even offer to only get paid if they find a vulnerability. Furthermore, most would love it if a magazine or something (like Consumer Reports or the network/computer equivalent) offered to publish their data. Right now most of this stuff occurs on bugtraq (mailing list) and they just discussed "Hacker Copyrights." From badnewsbears at prodigy.net Tue Jul 31 14:02:00 2001 From: badnewsbears at prodigy.net (Yogi) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] just a small idea References: Message-ID: <006c01c11a04$29c2ace0$73f2fea9@n6y3p0> All responsible ideas for getting out the word are excellent! It seems to me that our grass-roots protest is reaching that stage where it will either fizzle or blossom. The continued lack of widespread media coverage is one indicator. Lack of recent action by the DOJ (e.g., no movement, no bail hearing, no statements, etc.) might be another. The DOJ wants things to quiet down so they can have their kangaroo court outside the light of public scrutiny. Please excuse the slight:-) exaggeration but it's not as much an exaggeration as you might think. Anyway, we must not allow that to happen. Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter" To: ; Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 8:50 PM Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] just a small idea > The idea behind it is to show the public that there is the interrest > of a large group. I didn't say that we should stop sending individual > letters. The idea of an central "Press-Office" is very good. > My experience from other countries shows that 'official statemants' > from a large group have always much more power then letters from 10 > individuals. I also didn't say that we should send the same latter 10 > times to the same Office or person. That is not how public relation is > working and that is exactly what we need: professional public > relation. The goal is to wake up the media but the media will not > react off 10 individual letters. There are certain rules for public > relation and getting recognized. We should take them to our advantage. > Peter > > > Free Dmitry Sklyarov > Repeal the DMCA > ---------------------------------------- > http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca > http://www.freesklyarov.org > > > > On Monday 30 July 2001 09:52, you wrote: > > I think that writing individual letters is not very effectful. > > Instead, we should come up with one letter which we can call a press > > release or protest letter of the Free-Dmitry Community. > > Everything I've always heard about effective activism is just the > opposite: > that when companies or elected officials receive a bunch of copies of > a > single form letter, they tend to DISCOUNT it. What really gets their > attention is individual letters from distinct parties. Two letters > that are > just duplicates with different signatures show that at least those two > people > were committed enough to sign their names and pay for a stamp...but > two > separate letters show a higher level of commitment and carry more > weight. > > That's not to say mass mailings are useless. We should do exactly as > you > say: come up with a consensus letter, have local parties to gather as > many > signatures as we can, and send them all in on the same day to make a > dramatic > statement. However, we must ALSO do the individual letter-writing > effort, or > we reduce ourselves to the same level of credibility as all that junk > mail > you throw away every day without even opening it. It serves its > purpose, but > it's no substitute for personal communication. > > It's probably also not too soon to start thinking about setting up a > speaker's bureau. At least in my area, our Big Media have mostly > ignored us, > and the only reporters I've seen have been from things like trade > papers. > That's good, and we need to keep in contact with those people--but > eventually, maybe Real Soon Now, even, the big news organizations are > going > to notice us. When they do, we should be ready with press packets, > people > who are willing to go on talk shows and give interviews, and so forth. > We > should have lists of contact names and phone numbers for people who > are > prepared to do that, so when a reporter or professional society asks > for a > spokesman, we can seize the opportunity. > > -- > > What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be > freely > used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com Tue Jul 31 14:05:46 2001 From: SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com (Rob McGee) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NC Call to Protest In-Reply-To: <20010731140337.D3113@hal>; from SerrQzvgev@zxmail.com on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 02:03:37PM -0500 References: <20010731140337.D3113@hal> Message-ID: <20010731160546.E3113@hal> On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 02:03:37PM -0500, Rob McGee wrote: > > (quoted from Adrian Dunston) > > 4. On his way home after the conference, Dmitry Sklyarov was arrested by > > the FBI and charged apparantly with working for a foreign company that > > violated the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. Sklyarov does not head the On rereading, I see that this isn't exactly true. The charge is that Dmitri himself was doing the "trafficking" in a circumvention device. > > the world from his wife and two young daughters. > > I've read that the older child is a son. But I can't say definitively. > (I've also seen reports that he is 26 and 27; don't know which is true.) Thanks for the confirmation, Ed. Do you know how old Dmitri is? Are you maintaining contact with Oksana, or was that a one-time call? It would be good for this list to have at least some contact with her. BTW, where's Vladimir (or is it Alex?) Katalov? Last we heard from him was the promise of a representation announcement which is now overdue. I would sure like to hear more real news about what is going on. Also, I'm firmly convinced that the Russian angle is far more likely to get Dmitri out of jail than is anything we can do in the USA. Being a Federal case, this one is more likely to be responsive to foreign diplomatic pressure (as opposed to a state prosecution, in which the President and State Dep't can be ignored by the prosecutor. Here, dubya has full legal authority to drop the charges -- though his performance in Texas would make that appear unlikely. "The State of Texas has never executed an innocent man" -- yeah, right.) Has anyone tried writing to president@gov.ru yet? If so, are these being read by any humans? Is there a Russian MFA e-mail address which might be better, or should we perhaps just write to the Russian Ambassador? I would be glad to write, myself, but I think it would be more effective to be written in Russian (my Russian training was very limited and took place more than 20 years ago.) Anyway, I'll get to work on a draft and toss it out for consideration. Rob - /dev/rob0 From huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com Tue Jul 31 14:10:27 2001 From: huaiyu_zhu at yahoo.com (huaiyu_zhu@yahoo.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Disturbing analogies Message-ID: There was a discussion on CNet Radio over lunch time today. I heard a section of it, and it makes me uneasy. One guy was insisting on an analogy of someone producing a shoplifting tool which has no other usage, and selling it with ads like "use this tool to steal". Then it was pointed out to him by the host and another guest that what Sklyarov did was not for stealing things you do not own, but for doing things to copies you already bought, that it does have other useful purposes like letting blind people hear the book, that he did not sell it in US, but merely gave a presentation on flaws of Adobe systems, that only his employer sold it, which is not illegal in Russia, and took it out when Adobe complained. I thought, great, this is all clear. But that guy still claims, "yeah well, I can hear arguments from both sides, it's not clear", or that sort of thing. Then the host said something like, "In any case, it's not illegal in Russia, and US laws should stop at US border". Hearing this, that guy started telling a story about two "Russian hackers" stealing company secrets and asking for ransom. And they did this to US company from Russia. And the FBI set up a fake company and invited them to come here to tell about their "techniques", and nailed them. Et cetra. We all know that is a completely unrelated story (if there was such a story at all). But to a casual listener, what might stick in their mind may just be phrases like Russian hackers ... hack in Russia ... steal US secrets ... Russian hacker invited to US to talk about hacking ... FBI trapped them ... US law protect US interest, blah, blah, blah. If this was the first time I heard this story, I might be completely confused about "what this Russian hacker did". This may even happen when the host and one guest is very clueful on the issue. It has been said here that we should avoid using analogies in explaining this case, as analogies always tend to mislead one way or another. However, analogies have been flying around in the media on this case. Our opponents are not hesitent to use very misleading analogies. It takes greater mental capacity to analyse an analogy and reveal its misleading intonation. Such capacities might not be available in general discussions. So my point is, if we do not come up with short accurate analogies of our own that can capture listener's imagination, we might lose in a "war of attention span". And without attention from ordinary people, good arguments have very limited use (unless we'd like to see this go through the courts, of course). When the other side is trying hard to muddy the water, what is the most effective way to make it clear again? Huaiyu Zhu From spider at sneakybastard.com Tue Jul 31 14:13:44 2001 From: spider at sneakybastard.com (Sonia Arana) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NC Call to Protest In-Reply-To: <20010731140337.D3113@hal> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Rob McGee wrote: > > Dmitry Skylarov is the first man ever to be jailed for telling people how to > > decode and read a book. > > -------------------------------------------- > > Also, I doubt that's really true. A lot of people have been jailed and > even murdered by gov'ts for a lot of crazy reasons. Yes, even the great > USA does stuff like that all the time, past and present. indeed, it was illegal to teach a slave to read. i suspect the penalties for being a (known) literate slave were higher than teaching one (death vs. imprisonment). From kfoss at planetpdf.com Tue Jul 31 14:28:01 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Russian anticircumvention law? In-Reply-To: <20010731131512.Q719@zork.net> References: <20010731131512.Q719@zork.net> Message-ID: At 1:15 PM -0700 7/31/01, Seth David Schoen wrote: >I suspect that this poster has just misinterpreted what AEBPR is, but >I wonder if anyone's familiar with the law to which he refers. > >http://www.upside.com/texis/mvm/discuss/+NwwFqzvx98KwKmWxzmwww0/view_discussion.html?msgid=3b5c4d8f0;p=2 There was a bit of a flap a week or so ago that I've seen mentioned recently in a few Russian sites about a radio interview in which someone (Anton Nosik, a newspaper editor and Internet company owner, as I recall) apparently said he approved of the arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov, claiming it was a crime not only in the US, but in Russia, too. He cited an "Article 23" of Russia's Criminal Code that he said applied -- had to do with creating harmful programs and/or changes in existing computer programs that led to destruction, copying, etc. -- which is supposedly punishable by 3-7 years and a significant fine, according to the interviewee. Others quoted on the same topic disagreed with him, citing Article 15 that they said was more relevant, and under which Dmitry would not have been arrested in Russia. It refers to the legality of making a back-up copy of a program for specific purposes. (There was no mention, as I recall, to the situation where in order to make a back-up copy, one had to first decrypt the file.) The same discussion repeated a theme a number here have touched on -- that *if* there was legitimate cause for an arrest, it should not have been Dmitry, but rather one or more of his ElcomSoft colleagues (heads of the company). [their suggestion, not mine] Hopefully someone from Russia can clarify this matter further. Regards ~ Kurt ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network -- From adunston at jetstream.com Tue Jul 31 14:23:05 2001 From: adunston at jetstream.com (Adrian Dunston) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:50 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NC Call to Protest Message-ID: >From: Rob McGee >On rereading, I see that this isn't exactly true. The charge is that >Dmitri himself was doing the "trafficking" in a circumvention device. In the television interview with Dmitry, he not only denied selling it (I'm pretty sure), but denied having even made the decision to sell it. I'd like to be truthful when I send this out, but just like the American press, I want to report the truth that helps our cause the most. If you have a quote of the actual charges from the FBI or the US Attorney, that would help me out the most. Otherwise, it would be nice to know if the CD/money actually crossed his hands, or if he helped to set up the US server for sales from Elcomsoft in Moscow. > > the world from his wife and two young daughters. I've changed this to "young son and daughter" and the lawsuit bit to "defense". Thanks so much for the corrections. Please get back to me as soon as you can. There are a lot of places I'm planning on putting this tonight. >FROM: Sonia Arana > > Dmitry Skylarov is the first man ever to be jailed for telling people how to > > decode and read a book. > > -------------------------------------------- > > Also, I doubt that's really true. A lot of people have been jailed and > even murdered by gov'ts for a lot of crazy reasons. Yes, even the great > USA does stuff like that all the time, past and present. >indeed, it was illegal to teach a slave to read. i suspect the penalties >for being a (known) literate slave were higher than teaching one (death >vs. imprisonment). This is a sensational statement which was correct to my knowledge. I'm trying to qualify it, but I do not want it to lose impact. Mentioning slavery would help to strike a cord in most Americans. Maybe I should try to use that. "Dmitry Sklyarov is the first man since the Emancipation Proclamation to be jailed for telling people how to decode and read a book." If you can provide another specific example as to how this is false, please do. I think it's too good a propaganda device to give up because we're pretty sure our evil government has done something dirty like that before. -Adrian P. Dunston __ (sourceCode == freeSpeech) //Support the EFF. http://www.x-omega.com/shirtdept From spider at sneakybastard.com Tue Jul 31 14:48:39 2001 From: spider at sneakybastard.com (Sonia Arana) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NC Call to Protest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Adrian Dunston wrote: > >FROM: Sonia Arana > > > Dmitry Skylarov is the first man ever to be jailed for telling people > how to > > > decode and read a book. > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > > Also, I doubt that's really true. A lot of people have been jailed and > > even murdered by gov'ts for a lot of crazy reasons. Yes, even the great > > USA does stuff like that all the time, past and present. > > >indeed, it was illegal to teach a slave to read. i suspect the penalties > >for being a (known) literate slave were higher than teaching one (death > >vs. imprisonment). > > This is a sensational statement which was correct to my knowledge. I'm > trying to qualify it, but I do not want it to lose impact. Mentioning > slavery would help to strike a cord in most Americans. Maybe I should try > to use that. You just might. According to this web site, the fine in Georgia for being a white person who taught a slave to read was $500. Anybody know how much $500 was in 1829? I'm wondering how it compares with the $500k fine for violating the DMCA. http://www.cviog.uga.edu/Projects/gainfo/tdgh-dec/dec12.htm From david at lupercalia.net Tue Jul 31 15:01:44 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Counter-Terminology In-Reply-To: <3B66B426.5030103@eurorights.org>; from larsg@eurorights.org on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 03:35:12PM +0200 References: <13218924952.20010730175256@centras.lt> <20010731091414.A1151@3soft.de> <3B66B426.5030103@eurorights.org> Message-ID: <20010731180144.F29289@lupercalia.net> On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 03:35:12PM +0200, Lars Gaarden wrote: > David Haworth wrote: > > > It goes on to say that what happens to those copies after they've > > been sold is up to individual countries. I believe the US > > has a first sale doctrine that says the authors can't restrict > > further sales or transfers of the copy in its original form. > > > Too bad that WCT doesn't force worldwide exhaustion at first sale. > Would have been a lot harder for the EU Copyright directive to > erect a 'Festung Europa' wrt first sale if it did. > > > > Also read articles 11 and 12, and then ask why the DMCA makes > > the distribution of "circumvention devices" illegal. Especially > > if you take the agreed statements concerning article 12 > > into account. > > (http://www.wipo.int/treaties/ip/copyright/statements.html) > > > And that's one thing I just don't get - why did the DMCA get > 1201 so wrong when it is quite obvious from the WCT and WPPT > that the layer of protection added by law-protected TPMs should > have the same size as copyright law itself. Which begs the question of why the publishers are not open to a reasonable change in the DMCA that truly balances the interests and rights of the reader (not consumer -- I hate being defined as a consumer) with their own. I bet we could make good hay out of the fact they refuse to discuss the details of the DMCA and instead pump out PR in marketroid and avoids all mention of facts. -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca/ Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead From SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com Tue Jul 31 15:06:48 2001 From: SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com (Rob McGee) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NC Call to Protest In-Reply-To: ; from adunston@jetstream.com on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 02:22:20PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010731170648.F3113@hal> On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 02:22:20PM -0700, Adrian Dunston wrote: > In the television interview with Dmitry, he not only denied selling > it (I'm pretty sure), but denied having even made the decision to sell it. > I'd like to be truthful when I send this out, but just like the American > press, I want to report the truth that helps our cause the most. If you > have a quote of the actual charges from the FBI or the US Attorney, that OMG, those are all over the place! The spooks themselves issued a press release bragging about their victimization of Dmitri. They have that, along with PDF copies of the complaint and all documents, at their Web site: http://www.usaondca.com/ (notice it's a .com and no a .gov -- how perfectly appropriate!) It has also been converted to HTML and is also available in many places: http://cryptome.org/usa-v-sklyarov.htm is one among many. That page also has links back to pages at eff.org. > would help me out the most. Otherwise, it would be nice to know if the > CD/money actually crossed his hands, or if he helped to set up the US server > for sales from Elcomsoft in Moscow. AFAIK, no, you're right about him not having been directly involved in sales or marketing of AEBPR. He did hand out approximately 15 demo CD's at DefCon according to people who were there, but that fact is not cited in the complaint. (I do expect, though, that it will be brought up in the trial.) > "Dmitry Sklyarov is the first man since the Emancipation Proclamation to be > jailed for telling people how to decode and read a book." > > If you can provide another specific example as to how this is false, please > do. I think it's too good a propaganda device to give up because we're > pretty sure our evil government has done something dirty like that before. Sure. Literacy tests were a popular method of disenfranchising blacks before the success of the civil rights movement. Well, I guess you're right: probably no one was jailed for helping blacks pass their voter literacy tests. They would have been lynched instead. Poll worker (to white voter): How do you spell "dog"? White voter: d-a-w-g Poll worker: Here's your ballot. Next? (to black voter) How do you spell "rhododendron"? Black voter: r-h-o-d-o-d-e-n-d-r-o-n Poll worker: Wrong. (to armed thug) Deputy, show this boy out. Next? > I've changed this to "young son and daughter" and the lawsuit bit to > "defense". Thanks so much for the corrections. Please get back to me as > soon as you can. There are a lot of places I'm planning on putting this You're welcome; I hope this was fast enough. :) Good luck. Rob - /dev/rob0 From david at lupercalia.net Tue Jul 31 15:06:38 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Oklahoma prison In-Reply-To: <200107311206112.SM00201@mail.TheMail.com>; from mw@themail.com on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 12:06:40PM -0400 References: <200107311206112.SM00201@mail.TheMail.com> Message-ID: <20010731180638.G29289@lupercalia.net> On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 12:06:40PM -0400, mw@themail.com wrote: > confirmed 5 minutes ago. > Dmitry is still in OK. > > he will get 3 stamps tomorrow. He can not get any canteen until transferred. > > Anything he has now, will likely be taken from him when he is transferred...even his "clothes". Of course he'll get some new ones... > > maybe a fast, at least a prayer is in order... > > poor dmitry. A vigil at the jail would be appropriate. You can be he will find out we were there, and it will mean a great deal to him. I would even come out for it if on a weekend. -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca/ Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead From jono at microshaft.org Tue Jul 31 15:11:36 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [declan@well.com: FC: Sen. Hatch "commends" DOJ for Sklyarov arrest, IP prosecutions] Message-ID: <20010731151135.D59052@networkcommand.com> ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- X-Sender: declan@mail.well.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 16:20:27 -0400 To: politech@politechbot.com From: Declan McCullagh Subject: FC: Sen. Hatch "commends" DOJ for Sklyarov arrest, IP prosecutions Precedence: bulk Reply-To: declan@well.com X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ X-Author: Declan McCullagh is at http://www.mccullagh.org/ X-News-Site: Cluebot is at http://www.cluebot.com/ This is an excerpt from transcript of Monday's hearing of the Senate Judiciary committee. "Free Sklyarov" activists had hoped that the case would be brought up during the confirmation hearings, but I suspect this isn't what they had in mind. Robert Mueller, of course, is President Bush's pick to be FBI director. Info on hearing: http://judiciary.senate.gov/hr073001f.htm Politech archive on U.S. v. Sklyarov: http://www.politechbot.com/cgi-bin/politech.cgi?name=sklyarov Politech archive on DMCA: http://www.politechbot.com/cgi-bin/politech.cgi?name=dmca "Congress is more than doubling number of federal copyright cops" http://www.politechbot.com/p-02321.html -Declan ********* SEN. HATCH: One of the areas of prosecution for which you are particularly known is that of computer and intellectual-property crime. As U.S. attorney for the northern district of California, you created a section called the Computer Hacking and Intellectual Property, or CHIP. Recently Attorney General Ashcroft recognized your success in the most sincere and flattering way possible by announcing the formation of nine additional CHIPs units around the country. And as you know, a subset of this area, criminal copyright enforcement, is of key importance to this committee. We've devoted considerable energy over the past number of years to Internet enforcement in particular. In 1997, we enacted the No Electronic Theft, or the NET Act, combining criminal penalties for certain non-commercial Internet pirates. In 1998, we passed the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, or the DMCA it's called, which helps combat trafficking and hacking devices designed to defeat technological protections for copyrighted material. We also enacted the Digital Theft Deterrence and Copyright Damages Improvement Act to speed the implementation of the NET Act and to improve on-line theft deterrence generally. And we have even earmarked additional funding for DOJ specifically for the investigation and prosecution of cyber-crime. The committee's work is starting to bear fruit in the form of criminal prosecutions of Internet piracy. So far this year, the number of NET Act prosecutions appears to be up, and we have just recently seen the first criminal prosecutions brought under the DMCA. Just this week, the Department of Justice announced a series of new prosecutions of Internet crimes. I commended the Department of Justice for what I hope is a commitment to cyber-crime enforcement, and I hope this becomes a priority for the FBI as well. Would you please outline for us, if you can, your plan as FBI director on protecting the nation's computer infrastructure and intellectual property? MR. MUELLER: If I may go back briefly to what I saw when I took over as U.S. attorney in San Francisco. We had Silicon Valley in my district, and one of the great issues was how do you protect -- or how do you not protect, but how do you combat high-tech crime? And the first thing I had to do was determine what do you mean by high-tech crime, and I came to the conclusion that it should be broken down in four ways: First of all, computer intrusions, denial-of- service attacks; secondly, theft of intellectual property, economic espionage; third, frauds on the Internet, distribution of child pornography on the Internet; and fourthly, the theft of high-tech components such as computer chips, hard drives and the like, all of which are critical to the high-tech industry. We put together a unit in San Francisco and in San Jose because it was important to develop the expertise in the United States attorneys, the assistant United States attorneys, who would be handling these cases. It was important that we develop the relationship between the FBI agents, who had the expertise to do these cases, the assistant United States attorneys who were doing these cases, and the community. In addressing high-tech crime, it is critically important that we develop the relationships with those victims of high-tech crime in the high-tech industry. And consequently, we will support -- should I be confirmed as the director of the FBI, the FBI will support not only the unit that was set up in the northern district of California, but also the other units to be set up, announced by the attorney general last week. One other point I might make, and this goes to the issue of working closely with the state and local authorities. There are too few investigators with the skills we need to address this. And one of the developments that has been useful is what has been known or called a computer forensics lab, which was established in San Diego with a number of contributing participating agencies, both federal and local. And it is that type of combined enterprise that we are going to have to adopt if we are to address this new wave of separate technological crime in the future. SEN. HATCH: Thank you. Mr. Mueller, as you know, the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City, they're going to be the largest planned public safety and law enforcement in our country in the foreseeable future. The law enforcement community, including the FBI, has been working on the plans and preparations for several years. [...] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- End forwarded message ----- From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Jul 31 15:17:58 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [rcs@CS.Arizona.EDU: moving Crypto?] Message-ID: <20010731151758.V719@zork.net> Here's another person proposing moving academic computer conferences out of the United States. ----- Forwarded message from Richard Schroeppel ----- Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 13:13:34 -0700 (MST) From: Richard Schroeppel To: cryptography@wasabisystems.com Subject: moving Crypto? It's time to consider moving the annual Crypto conference out of Santa Barbara. The obvious places are Vancouver, Toronto, or Mexico. I know zilch about these places as conference venues. Could someone knowledgable summarize the relative merits? Rich Schroeppel rcs@cs.arizona.edu --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo@wasabisystems.com ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From krw5 at qwest.net Tue Jul 31 14:28:32 2001 From: krw5 at qwest.net (Roger Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Disturbing analogies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0107311428320E.26152@stumpy> On Tuesday 31 July 2001 14:10, huaiyu_zhu@yahoo.com wrote: > > Hearing this, that guy started telling a story about two "Russian hackers" > stealing company secrets and asking for ransom. And they did this to US > company from Russia. And the FBI set up a fake company and invited them to > come here to tell about their "techniques", and nailed them. Et cetra. > > We all know that is a completely unrelated story (if there was such a > story at all). But to a casual listener, what might stick in their mind For the record. Yes, this is a true story. Happened only a couple months ago. > > When the other side is trying hard to muddy the water, what is the most > effective way to make it clear again? > > Huaiyu Zhu > The most affective way is for non-U.S. businesses to threaten U.S. revenue with boycotts and similar action. That is a form of reasoning ALWAYS listened to. -rk ------------------------------------------- !!! Free Dmitry !!! http://www.freesklyarov.org http://www.anti-dmca.org From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Jul 31 15:38:36 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Phoenix? Message-ID: <87d76giv0z.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> How'd Phoenix go off? ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com Tue Jul 31 15:40:10 2001 From: SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com (Rob McGee) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:51 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] the Russian angle (was "NC Call ...") In-Reply-To: <20010731181011.5f836044.nbhs2@i-2000.com>; from nbhs2@i-2000.com on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 06:10:11PM -0400 References: <20010731140337.D3113@hal> <20010731160546.E3113@hal> <20010731181011.5f836044.nbhs2@i-2000.com> Message-ID: <20010731174010.G3113@hal> On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 06:10:11PM -0400, Michael Scottaline wrote: > This is something I've found VERY surprising. In all I've read of this > situation (and admittedly, my reading has NOT been exhaustive), I've yet > to run across any commentary on the Russian governments efforts to have > Dmitry released. When US resident, Chinese citizens, were dteained in > China, the news was full of US government's indignation and efforts to get > them released through diplomatic channels (obviously successful). What > has, if anything, the Putin government done thus far (that's known)? > Perhaps this is a consequence of the breakdown of the hairly/bald mode of > transition in the Russian government ;-) I think it can be explained 100% by the enormous political and economic power of the USA as opposed to both Russia and China. China wants access to our market. Russia wants aid and investment as they try to modernize. Neither one is really in a position right now to tell the USA to "edet'ye k chortu" (bad transliteration for "go to hell"). Sure they both have nukes, but we all know now that nobody wants to use them. Nukes will only have significance in dire circumstances, the likes of which we have not yet seen and can only imagine now. The USSR, even under its last leader Gorbachev, would have reveled in a story like this. Castro's probably enjoying it immensely, as are other victims of the USA's power and hypocrisy. But these days nobody is paying any attention to them. I'm still at work on my Putin draft. How about some others? This is a way I might be able to do something to help, anyway. (I don't even dare distribute flyers in my town, because I would end up in jail. The pigs here already know and hate me, and I can't afford jail time and fines right now.) Rob - /dev/rob0 From david at lupercalia.net Tue Jul 31 15:44:21 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] FreedomForum.org Message-ID: <20010731184421.H29289@lupercalia.net> I did an interview with Freedom Forum, www.FreedomForum.org, and they will be running an article on Thursday. The reporter was extremely interested in the Free Speech aspect of code. We talked for quite awhile about the issue. I presented to him the various exhibits in the DeCSS Gallery and asked him where he would draw the line. I was preaching to the choir (the article will run in their First Amendment section), but hearing him Grok it was quite satisfying anyway. -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca/ Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead From keith at indierecords.com Tue Jul 31 16:26:50 2001 From: keith at indierecords.com (Keith Handy) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Call to artists Message-ID: <3B673EBA.F70@indierecords.com> I suggest we make a worldwide call for support from artists, musicians, and authors in addition to programmers. I say this because although some publishing companies might have the decency to speak out on this manner, the DMCA works on their behalf. This applies as well to the major record labels, bloated software companies, and so forth. The internet, from its arrival into popular culture, has primarily been a threat to MARKETING ENTITIES and other such middle-men. The DMCA was pushed into law, I think, by their fear (a fear legitimately grounded in the reality) that we might not need them anymore. As any technology comes into existence, there is a public backlash because of the shifts in power, and the eradicating of the needs that employ some of us. If the invention of a new machine eliminated the need for certain laborers, those people lost their jobs. Often times there were moves to outlaw or heavily restrict the new technology for this very reason, and innovators were sacrificed for the short-term good of the workers. It is my impression that this is exactly what passed the DMCA, only now the ones fearing for their jobs happen to have an obscene amount of prestige and buying power. It is not a copyright law; we already *had* copyright law, and it was more than enough to serve its original purpose of guaranteeing authors (and other creative people) the right to profit from the work of their own minds. If someone blatantly ripped off your work and passed it off as their own, you could take them to court, prove it, and get the money that should have been yours. But the proponents of DMCA, as far as I can tell, are not artists, writers, musicians, or programmers. They are, as far as I can tell, MARKETING PEOPLE, who are quite possibly in mortal fear of their own obsoletion. I am almost tempted to feel sympathy for them, but after reading numerous accounts (often from the artists themselves, look up Courtney Love's essay for a prime example) about how they've been ripping off their own clients for years, I don't believe that rescuing them from the inevitable is a high moral priority at this point. Those who have been good and fair to their artists will probably continue to be empolyed by those artists, even as the nature of the work changes. Yes, I know I'm making extremely broad generalizations (I'm certainly not speaking for Metallica here), but I think this is the general anatomy of the issue, and I think we could get a few *huge*, well-known names (not just computer legends, but the kind of celebrities that non-computer people would listen to) speaking out on our behalf -- if we bypass the middlemen -- and bring our cause out into the light. -Keith P.S. if you haven't seen my piggy yet: http://www.indierecords.com/protest/pig.htm From david at lupercalia.net Tue Jul 31 16:22:28 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Free Dmitry fortunes Message-ID: <20010731192228.A1746@lupercalia.net> I started a fortune file of DMCA and Dmitry quotes, etc. Please send any contributions to me directly. I'll post it on the website once there are a reasonable number of entries. -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri Sklyarov! http://www.freesklyarov.org Washington DC Protests http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca In Georgia in 1829 the penalty for teaching a slave or freedman to read or write was set at $500 and jail at the discretion of the court. In the USA in 1998 the penalty for giving readers Fair Use rights illegally denied them was set at $500,000 and up to 5 years in prison. From sisgeek at yahoo.com Tue Jul 31 16:23:59 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] [declan@well.com: FC: Sen. Hatch "commends" DOJ for Sklyarov arrest, IP prosecutions] In-Reply-To: <20010731151135.D59052@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010731232359.64771.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com> this says absolutely nothing - in typical fashion! i do find the confusion between the computer infrastruction and intellectual property interesting and probably part of dmitry's difficulty --- "Jon O ." wrote: > ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh > ----- > > X-Sender: declan@mail.well.com > X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 > Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 16:20:27 -0400 > To: politech@politechbot.com > From: Declan McCullagh > Subject: FC: Sen. Hatch "commends" DOJ for Sklyarov > arrest, IP prosecutions > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: declan@well.com > X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ > X-Author: Declan McCullagh is at > http://www.mccullagh.org/ > X-News-Site: Cluebot is at http://www.cluebot.com/ > > This is an excerpt from transcript of Monday's > hearing of the Senate > Judiciary committee. "Free Sklyarov" activists had > hoped that the case > would be brought up during the confirmation > hearings, but I suspect this > isn't what they had in mind. Robert Mueller, of > course, is President Bush's > pick to be FBI director. > > Info on hearing: > http://judiciary.senate.gov/hr073001f.htm > > Politech archive on U.S. v. Sklyarov: > http://www.politechbot.com/cgi-bin/politech.cgi?name=sklyarov > > Politech archive on DMCA: > http://www.politechbot.com/cgi-bin/politech.cgi?name=dmca > > "Congress is more than doubling number of federal > copyright cops" > http://www.politechbot.com/p-02321.html > > -Declan > > ********* > > SEN. HATCH: One of the areas of prosecution for > which you are particularly > known is that of computer and intellectual-property > crime. As U.S. attorney for > the northern district of California, you created a > section called the Computer > Hacking and Intellectual Property, or CHIP. Recently > Attorney General Ashcroft > recognized your success in the most sincere and > flattering way possible by > announcing the formation of nine additional CHIPs > units around the country. And > as you know, a subset of this area, criminal > copyright enforcement, is of key > importance to this committee. We've devoted > considerable energy over the past > number of years to Internet enforcement in > particular. > > In 1997, we enacted the No Electronic Theft, or > the NET Act, combining > criminal penalties for certain non-commercial > Internet pirates. In 1998, we > passed the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, or the > DMCA it's called, which > helps combat trafficking and hacking devices > designed to defeat technological > protections for copyrighted material. We also > enacted the Digital Theft > Deterrence and Copyright Damages Improvement Act to > speed the implementation of > the NET Act and to improve on-line theft deterrence > generally. And we have even > earmarked additional funding for DOJ specifically > for the investigation and > prosecution of cyber-crime. > > The committee's work is starting to bear fruit > in the form of criminal > prosecutions of Internet piracy. So far this year, > the number of NET Act > prosecutions appears to be up, and we have just > recently seen the first > criminal > prosecutions brought under the DMCA. Just this week, > the Department of Justice > announced a series of new prosecutions of Internet > crimes. > > I commended the Department of Justice for what I > hope is a commitment to > cyber-crime enforcement, and I hope this becomes a > priority for the FBI as > well. > Would you please outline for us, if you can, your > plan as FBI director on > protecting the nation's computer infrastructure and > intellectual property? > > MR. MUELLER: If I may go back briefly to what I > saw when I took over as > U.S. > attorney in San Francisco. We had Silicon Valley in > my district, and one of the > great issues was how do you protect -- or how do you > not protect, but how > do you > combat high-tech crime? > > And the first thing I had to do was determine > what do you mean by high-tech > crime, and I came to the conclusion that it should > be broken down in four ways: > First of all, computer intrusions, denial-of- > service attacks; secondly, theft > of intellectual property, economic espionage; third, > frauds on the Internet, > distribution of child pornography on the Internet; > and fourthly, the theft of > high-tech components such as computer chips, hard > drives and the like, all of > which are critical to the high-tech industry. > > We put together a unit in San Francisco and in > San Jose because it was > important to develop the expertise in the United > States attorneys, the > assistant > United States attorneys, who would be handling these > cases. It was important > that we develop the relationship between the FBI > agents, who had the expertise > to do these cases, the assistant United States > attorneys who were doing these > cases, and the community. > > In addressing high-tech crime, it is critically > important that we > develop the > relationships with those victims of high-tech crime > in the high-tech industry. > And consequently, we will support -- should I be > confirmed as the director of > the FBI, the FBI will support not only the unit that > was set up in the northern > district of California, but also the other units to > be set up, announced by the > attorney general last week. > > One other point I might make, and this goes to > the issue of working closely > with the state and local authorities. There are too > few investigators with the > skills we need to address this. And one of the > developments that has been > useful > is what has been known or called a computer > forensics lab, which was > established > in San Diego with a number of contributing > participating agencies, both federal > and local. And it is that type of combined > enterprise that we are going to have > to adopt if we are to address this new wave of > separate technological crime in > the future. > > SEN. HATCH: Thank you. Mr. Mueller, as you know, > the 2002 Winter > Olympics in > Salt Lake City, they're going to be the largest > planned public safety and law > enforcement in our country in the foreseeable > future. The law enforcement > community, including the FBI, has been working on > the plans and > preparations for > several years. > > [...] > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and > technology mailing list > You may redistribute this message freely if you > include this notice. > To subscribe, visit > http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html > This message is archived at > http://www.politechbot.com/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Tue Jul 31 16:10:03 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:52 2005 Subject: think of the children! (Re: [free-sklyarov] An AlternativeLine of Argumentation) References: <200107212018.AA89719190@portalofevil.com> <200107212018.AA89719190@portalofevil.com> <3.0.6.32.20010722110644.00866100@pop.sprynet.com> Message-ID: <3B673ACB.B6C0F572@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> Good point. Seth Johnson David Honig wrote: > > In writing to congresscritters, I emphesized family-oriented-rube aspects > which will tug their endocrines more than rants. Don't > want to be written off as intellectual fringe, want to be read as > typical voter. > > I do not go into the problems caused by DCMA. Solve that *later*. From sisgeek at yahoo.com Tue Jul 31 16:32:23 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NC Call to Protest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010731233223.3468.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com> what a great comparison - in both cases a legislature fashions a draconian remedy to enslave a class of persons! > > According to this web site, the fine > in Georgia for being > a white person who taught a slave to read was $500. > Anybody know how > much $500 was in 1829? I'm wondering how it compares > with the $500k fine > for violating the DMCA. > > http://www.cviog.uga.edu/Projects/gainfo/tdgh-dec/dec12.htm > > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ben at kalifornia.com Tue Jul 31 16:29:50 2001 From: ben at kalifornia.com (Ben Ford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Why the DMCA is anti-security and anti-privacy References: <20010730231612.H9784@uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com> <009d01c119c7$672663c0$3e203b40@PRODUCTION> Message-ID: <3B673F6E.4030204@kalifornia.com> tom moore wrote: >>[Rick tries to conjure up a stirring ballad about the comparative merit of >>Apache and PHP on Linux or *BSD, and fails.] >> > >Deftly avoiding the temptation to overreach his talents and post a quick >filk, Tom instead replies with a haiku: > >Links that work sometimes >But expose filesystem >On any error. > PHP only reveals the filesystem if you have debugging turned on. As it is a development language, it is turned on by default with the expectation that you will turn it off before going live. As is fully documented. But this is somewhat off topic now . . . . -b From klepht at eleutheria.org Tue Jul 31 16:40:03 2001 From: klepht at eleutheria.org (Klepht) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:52 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ANNOUNCEMENT: Global IRC Free Dmitry Summit - 8/2/2001 Message-ID: <87vgk8hdm4.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us> So, let's have a global summit of local groups to coordinate our next steps in Freeing Dmitry. Date: Thu, 8/2/2001 Time: 9PM EDT Network: Slashnet.org (http://www.slashnet.org/ for a server near you) Channel: #sklyarov This will be a planning meeting, a strategizing meeting, so please come with your organizer's hat on. ~Klepht -- klepht@eleutheria.org http://www.eleutheria.org/ From sisgeek at yahoo.com Tue Jul 31 16:44:40 2001 From: sisgeek at yahoo.com (alfee cube) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Disturbing analogies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010731234440.67672.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com> this reminds me of our governments attempts to control sexuality by defining pornography as "without social redeeming value"!!! result1: all sex flixs included the pledge of allegiance or a reading of the first amendment at the beginning of their tapes/films. result2: "pornography" flourishes today more than ever! result3: our government lost the battle (not withstanding the few who keep soldering on:) and the war! --- huaiyu_zhu@yahoo.com wrote: > There was a discussion on CNet Radio over lunch time > today. I heard a > section of it, and it makes me uneasy. > > One guy was insisting on an analogy of someone > producing a shoplifting tool > which has no other usage, and selling it with ads > like "use this tool to > steal". > > Then it was pointed out to him by the host and > another guest that what > Sklyarov did was not for stealing things you do not > own, but for doing > things to copies you already bought, that it does > have other useful purposes > like letting blind people hear the book, that he did > not sell it in US, but > merely gave a presentation on flaws of Adobe > systems, that only his employer > sold it, which is not illegal in Russia, and took it > out when Adobe > complained. > > I thought, great, this is all clear. But that guy > still claims, "yeah well, > I can hear arguments from both sides, it's not > clear", or that sort of > thing. Then the host said something like, "In any > case, it's not illegal in > Russia, and US laws should stop at US border". > > Hearing this, that guy started telling a story about > two "Russian hackers" > stealing company secrets and asking for ransom. And > they did this to US > company from Russia. And the FBI set up a fake > company and invited them to > come here to tell about their "techniques", and > nailed them. Et cetra. > > We all know that is a completely unrelated story (if > there was such a > story at all). But to a casual listener, what might > stick in their mind > may just be phrases like Russian hackers ... hack in > Russia ... steal US > secrets ... Russian hacker invited to US to talk > about hacking ... FBI > trapped them ... US law protect US interest, blah, > blah, blah. If this > was the first time I heard this story, I might be > completely confused > about "what this Russian hacker did". > > This may even happen when the host and one guest is > very clueful on the > issue. > > It has been said here that we should avoid using > analogies in explaining > this case, as analogies always tend to mislead one > way or another. However, > analogies have been flying around in the media on > this case. Our opponents > are not hesitent to use very misleading analogies. > It takes greater mental > capacity to analyse an analogy and reveal its > misleading intonation. Such > capacities might not be available in general > discussions. > > So my point is, if we do not come up with short > accurate analogies of our > own that can capture listener's imagination, we > might lose in a "war of > attention span". And without attention from > ordinary people, good arguments > have very limited use (unless we'd like to see this > go through the courts, > of course). > > When the other side is trying hard to muddy the > water, what is the most > effective way to make it clear again? > > Huaiyu Zhu > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From pmasloch at earthlink.net Tue Jul 31 16:46:21 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] just a small idea In-Reply-To: <006c01c11a04$29c2ace0$73f2fea9@n6y3p0> Message-ID: I have to agree with you to 100% on this. Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org All responsible ideas for getting out the word are excellent! It seems to me that our grass-roots protest is reaching that stage where it will either fizzle or blossom. The continued lack of widespread media coverage is one indicator. Lack of recent action by the DOJ (e.g., no movement, no bail hearing, no statements, etc.) might be another. The DOJ wants things to quiet down so they can have their kangaroo court outside the light of public scrutiny. Please excuse the slight:-) exaggeration but it's not as much an exaggeration as you might think. Anyway, we must not allow that to happen. Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter" To: ; Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 8:50 PM Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] just a small idea > The idea behind it is to show the public that there is the interrest > of a large group. I didn't say that we should stop sending individual > letters. The idea of an central "Press-Office" is very good. > My experience from other countries shows that 'official statemants' > from a large group have always much more power then letters from 10 > individuals. I also didn't say that we should send the same latter 10 > times to the same Office or person. That is not how public relation is > working and that is exactly what we need: professional public > relation. The goal is to wake up the media but the media will not > react off 10 individual letters. There are certain rules for public > relation and getting recognized. We should take them to our advantage. > Peter > > > Free Dmitry Sklyarov > Repeal the DMCA > ---------------------------------------- > http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca > http://www.freesklyarov.org > > > > On Monday 30 July 2001 09:52, you wrote: > > I think that writing individual letters is not very effectful. > > Instead, we should come up with one letter which we can call a press > > release or protest letter of the Free-Dmitry Community. > > Everything I've always heard about effective activism is just the > opposite: > that when companies or elected officials receive a bunch of copies of > a > single form letter, they tend to DISCOUNT it. What really gets their > attention is individual letters from distinct parties. Two letters > that are > just duplicates with different signatures show that at least those two > people > were committed enough to sign their names and pay for a stamp...but > two > separate letters show a higher level of commitment and carry more > weight. > > That's not to say mass mailings are useless. We should do exactly as > you > say: come up with a consensus letter, have local parties to gather as > many > signatures as we can, and send them all in on the same day to make a > dramatic > statement. However, we must ALSO do the individual letter-writing > effort, or > we reduce ourselves to the same level of credibility as all that junk > mail > you throw away every day without even opening it. It serves its > purpose, but > it's no substitute for personal communication. > > It's probably also not too soon to start thinking about setting up a > speaker's bureau. At least in my area, our Big Media have mostly > ignored us, > and the only reporters I've seen have been from things like trade > papers. > That's good, and we need to keep in contact with those people--but > eventually, maybe Real Soon Now, even, the big news organizations are > going > to notice us. When they do, we should be ready with press packets, > people > who are willing to go on talk shows and give interviews, and so forth. > We > should have lists of contact names and phone numbers for people who > are > prepared to do that, so when a reporter or professional society asks > for a > spokesman, we can seize the opportunity. > > -- > > What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be > freely > used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jono at microshaft.org Tue Jul 31 16:50:20 2001 From: jono at microshaft.org (Jon O .) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boucher kicking DMCA ass! Message-ID: <20010731165020.B60227@networkcommand.com> http://TheStandard.com/article/0,1902,28395,00.html Boucher is currently drafting legislation that would amend a section of the 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which makes it a crime to traffic in tools designed primarily to circumvent copyright-control measures. Given the advent of MusicNet and Pressplay, the two big digital-music subscription services slated for launch later this year, Boucher also believes it's necessary to modify current laws to create a way for digital-music delivery services to legally make and sell copies of a copyrighted work, and to level the playing field for smaller independent sites when they compete with the big guys. http://TheStandard.com/article/0,1902,28395,00.html From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Jul 31 16:57:23 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] High-resolution photos of Dmitry Sklyarov wanted Message-ID: <20010731165723.B719@zork.net> A journalist on a very tight deadline is looking for higher resolution photographs (150 dpi?) of Dmitry Sklyarov to reproduce in a print publication. It appears that all of the photographs currently on-line are 72 dpi. Does anybody have higher resolution pictures? -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org Tue Jul 31 16:57:05 2001 From: seth.johnson at Realmeasures.dyndns.org (Seth Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Disturbing analogies References: Message-ID: <3B6745D1.DAAD8612@Realmeasures.dyndns.org> huaiyu_zhu@yahoo.com wrote: > > Hearing this, that guy started telling a story about two "Russian hackers" > stealing company secrets and asking for ransom. And they did this to US > company from Russia. And the FBI set up a fake company and invited them to > come here to tell about their "techniques", and nailed them. Et cetra. > > We all know that is a completely unrelated story (if there was such a > story at all). It's a true story. The FBI invited some guy to the US, asked him to show his stuff on oh, say, *this* computer over here. They had rigged the computer up to record his keystrokes, and they used that to get evidence on the basis of which they prosecuted him. Don't ask me who or where or what all, but it was relatively recently, like the last couple of months or so. > So my point is, if we do not come up with short accurate analogies of our > own that can capture listener's imagination, we might lose in a "war of > attention span". And without attention from ordinary people, good arguments > have very limited use (unless we'd like to see this go through the courts, > of course). > > When the other side is trying hard to muddy the water, what is the most > effective way to make it clear again? You have to use incisive, delineating line. You have to *violate* the assumptions of the other side, and of those who are listening. Seth Johnson From kfoss at planetpdf.com Tue Jul 31 18:10:55 2001 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Disturbing analogies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 2:10 PM -0700 7/31/01, wrote: >Hearing this, that guy started telling a story about two "Russian hackers" >stealing company secrets and asking for ransom. And they did this to US >company from Russia. And the FBI set up a fake company and invited them to >come here to tell about their "techniques", and nailed them. Et cetra. > >We all know that is a completely unrelated story (if there was such a >story at all). If you're interested, this article explains that other situation: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/18496.html rgds ~ Kurt ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums mailto:kfoss@binarything.com | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com http://www.binarything.com/ | http://www.planetpdf.com/ BinaryThing.com - The ePublishing Network -- From mlc67 at columbia.edu Tue Jul 31 18:05:57 2001 From: mlc67 at columbia.edu (mike castleman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Announcement: FLYER DISTRIBUTION AT THIS WEEK'S 2600 MEETINGS Message-ID: <20010731180557.B8727@pinetree.cc.columbia.edu> Link: http://www.2600.com/news/display.shtml?id=619 For those who've never been before, 2600 meetings are held worldwide on the first Friday of every month. A list you can use to find the meeting nearest you is at http://www.2600.com/meetings As worldwide support grows in the case of jailed Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov, 2600 is calling upon attendees at all of this Friday's meetings to distribute information about the case. We urge every meeting to print up a number of flyers (which can be downloaded at http://www.tabinda.com/freedmitry/) and distribute them after the meeting. Everyone is urged to show up and participate. Bring your friends, connect with existing Free Dmitry activists in your area, spread the news to any organization of which you are a part, and join us in pushing for Dmitry's freedom. We find that once people are made aware of the facts of the case, they become as outraged as we have. Join us this Friday! Svobody Dime! TIPS FOR HANDING OUT FLYERS First, make sure you make the flyers distinctive by printing on colored paper if at all possible. The quickest way to do this is to go to a copy shop. Get several hundred at the very least - you WILL go through them quickly. Make sure you can print more if you need them. It is also helpful to put local contact information if possible. Check freesklyarov.org to see if there is a website or mailing list for your area. Familiarize yourself with the facts of the case as presented on freesklyarov.org. It's important to be able to answer questions of people who are interested in learning more. It is also important to be able to summarize the issue quickly to maintain people's attention. You should emphasize the fact that Sklyarov's program is not designed to make copies of encrypted PDF files, as well as the fact that he was arrested in the US for something he did in Russia, where it is legal. One effective point to make is to point out that blind people have used ElcomSoft's product to bypass the restriction on text-to-speech programs that some eBook sellers have put in place. We find that people respond well to "Protect Your Rights" as a catch phrase to get them to take the flyer. Let us know if others work for you. Be courteous to the people passing by - don't block their path and, if they ignore you or even make a snide remark, don't heckle them. We find that the vast majority of people are polite and interested in what you have to say. You'll find that some will even come up to you asking for more flyers! Have a set of master copies (printed on white paper) for others to make copies of their own and hand out in other places. Try to find a place with a lot of foot traffic to distribute flyers. If you are asked to leave by the management of a local establishment, cooperate and ask them where they would like you to stand. They can't force you to leave the area, only the part that is their property. The precise laws for flyering on private property vary from state to state, but, unless you are familiar with the laws in your area, it is best to play it safe and avoid confrontation. You can still successfully hand out material to everyone coming and going by positioning yourself in neighboring areas. If things become unpleasant, simply head to another location. We find that 90% of such confrontations can be averted by befriending security guards and making it clear that you don't intend to be disruptive. After flyering, please email mlc@2600.com and let us know how it went so we can compile a report. Good luck! From SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com Tue Jul 31 18:31:36 2001 From: SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com (Rob McGee) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:53 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RFC: draft to Putin Message-ID: <20010731203136.H3113@hal> Please comment, both on the specifics of the letter as well as on the idea of soliciting Russian aid to our cause. Is this best aimed at Putin or should I address it to the Russian ambassador? (Or to someone I haven't thought of?) My own comment, even before I have this thing finished, is that perhaps I should just provide URL's to sites (in Russian, preferably) which explain the details of the case. I would expect by now that he is at least aware of it. What about the Russian protocol of patronymic names? Shouldn't I be talking about "Dmitri HisDadovich" instead of just "Dmitri"? So who's his dad? For that matter, what about Katalov and Putin himself? Re: Katalov and Elcomsoft: Is it Vladimir? Is that the best e-mail for him? Does he have a Russian-language site? (If so I couldn't find it at www.elcomsoft.com.) Re: Robin and EFF: Is there another US coordination person, preferably one capable of communicating in Russian? Thanks, Rob - /dev/rob0 ________________________________________________________________________ To: Vladimir V. Putin, President, Russian Federation From: Rob McGee Subject: USA prosecution of Dmitri Sklyarov Dear Mr. President, First, please accept my apologies for being unable to address you in your native language. I was born in the USA and have lived all my life here, where the education systems tend to ignore the importance of teaching foreign languages. While only incidental, that serious oversight of US education may help serve to explain the attitudes of Americans and of their legal system. Most people I know in the USA seem to think that the USA *is* the world; if there is anything of significance is outside it, it exists only to be exploited by Americans. Dmitri Sklyarov, a young father from Moscow, who is a doctoral candidate at Bauman Moscow State Technical University, is employed at Elcomsoft (http://www.elcomsoft.com/). In his work there (also related to his doctoral studies), he discovered glaring weaknesses in the security of the eBook format, created and sold by Adobe Systems of San Jose, California, USA. (In marketing literature aimed at electronic publishers Adobe claimed their eBooks were "100% secure".) Using Dmitri's research, Elcomsoft created a program which allows an eBook user to circumvent the restrictions imposed by the eBook software. Called "AEBPR", this software does nothing to promote piracy; it merely enables eBook users to exercise their traditional rights of fair use, such as making copies for backup or use on other computers or under operating systems not supported by Adobe's eBook reader software. The Moscow-based Elcomsoft offered it for sale on the Internet for US$100, which is well above the price of a typical eBook. Clearly, this is not a tool for theft or piracy. Dmitri was invited to the DefCon conference (for computer security professionals) in Las Vegas, Nevada, USA, and asked to give a presenta- tion on the poor security of Adobe's eBook format. He did that, and was arrested under the terms of a new and unjust law, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). He has been denied bail, and has been imprisoned for more than two weeks now. The act of giving a speech is protected under the US Constitution's First Amendment. Unfortunately, we in the USA cannot expect our Congress, our law enforcement officials, nor our judicial system to uphold the Constitution. The prosecuting attorney in this case (David Shapiro, acting US Attorney for the Northern District of California) has shown no willingness to relent from this cruel, unjust and unwise action. If the legal process goes on at its usual slow pace, Dmitri will be kept from his home and his family for months before he even comes to trial. The outcome of the trial is far from certain; in fact, my personal guess is that he will be convicted and given the maximum penalty under law (five years in prison and a US$500,000 fine.) While in prison, he could possibly be subjected to civil litigation which could cost him everything he owns, and more than the meager amounts which have been raised through donations. You, sir, are certainly more familiar with Russian law than are those of us in the small community of Americans who are working to help Dmitri. It is our understanding that the research he performed was perfectly legal where he did it, in Russia. The resulting AEBPR software gives users their fair use rights, which we understand are guaranteed under your law. And this is why I am writing to you, and asking that your government join in our efforts to help Dmitri. Quite simply, the USA is not a safe place for Russians. Your law-abiding citizens may be imprisoned while visiting the USA, if the US FBI (or any of thousands of local law enforcement authorities) suspects them of violating *American* laws while at home in Russia. This is an egregious infringement on your national sovereignty, and a flagrant violation of established protocols in international law. As a responsible member of the United Nations and the world community, you have a compelling interest in discouraging this kind of behavior by the USA. Finally I want to address the humanitarian issues. Like Dmitri, I am the father of two young children. He and they are missing out on these very important early years, which of course can never be recovered. Those children need their father, and he needs to be with them. American supporters have offered to raise funds for his family's travel and lodging in the USA, but Dmitri's wife Oksana has very wisely refused the offer, probably out of fear for her safety. (At least while she remains in Russia she can be fairly certain that her children will be with their mother.) Please act to help Dmitri. You, sir, are probably in the best position to be able to help him return home. You can get the attention of President Bush -- we have been rebuffed by low-level officials. This being a Federal prosecution rather than a local one, it is within his direct Constitutional and statutory authority to put an immediate end to this travesty of justice. I am willing to do what I can to assist you if you should consider my request. Unfortunately, I am not in a position to do much; I am not even an official representative of any of the organizations for Dmitri. For more information and coordination with US-based support groups, I ask you to contact Robin Gross of the Electronic Frontier Foundation (http://www.eff.org/) at 454 Shotwell Street, San Francisco, CA 94110 USA, e-mail: robin@eff.org, voice: 1.415.863.5459, facsimile: 1.415.436.9993 (English language). For information and coordination with Dmitri and his family, you could contact Vladimir Katalov (in Russian) at travel@elcomsoft.com. There is also a good bilingual information site with a Russian-language mailing list at http://ezhe.ru/elcomsoft/ . I thank you for your time and attention to this matter. I wish you and Russia the best. I am sure you realize that not all Americans are in support of the US Government, which has grown far beyond democratic and Constitutional control. Sincerely, Rob McGee My Town, State, USA From MLarma at eFuel.com Tue Jul 31 18:47:33 2001 From: MLarma at eFuel.com (Larma, Mark) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] 2600 in North Carolina??? Message-ID: I am in Charlotte, NC and noticed that there is NO 2600 group here. That was surprising, but what was more shocking was that there isn't one in Raleigh either! Heck, I used to live in Omaha and they had one there! This is a bit off topic, but I'm hoping that another Charlotte resident is on here and maybe we can get something started in this area. It is a sad day when Fargo, ND has a 2600 group and a city of over a million does not. Mark Larma _________________________________________________________________________ eFuel E-Mail Confidentiality Disclaimer: The information contained in this e-mail is privileged and confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) indicated above. Use or disclosure of information e-mailed in error is respectfully prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and immediately delete the original message. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010731/b0a17c76/attachment.htm From pmasloch at earthlink.net Tue Jul 31 18:55:29 2001 From: pmasloch at earthlink.net (Peter) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] RFC: draft to Putin In-Reply-To: <20010731203136.H3113@hal> Message-ID: Last week i have send a fax to the Embassy of Russia, asking them if Dmitry had a chance to contact them but i didn't get any answer. Embassy of Russia 2650 Wisconsin Ave. Washington, D.C. 20007 Fax: (202) 298-5735 Phone: (202) 298-5700 Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org Please comment, both on the specifics of the letter as well as on the idea of soliciting Russian aid to our cause. Is this best aimed at Putin or should I address it to the Russian ambassador? (Or to someone I haven't thought of?) My own comment, even before I have this thing finished, is that perhaps I should just provide URL's to sites (in Russian, preferably) which explain the details of the case. I would expect by now that he is at least aware of it. What about the Russian protocol of patronymic names? Shouldn't I be talking about "Dmitri HisDadovich" instead of just "Dmitri"? So who's his dad? For that matter, what about Katalov and Putin himself? Re: Katalov and Elcomsoft: Is it Vladimir? Is that the best e-mail for him? Does he have a Russian-language site? (If so I couldn't find it at www.elcomsoft.com.) Re: Robin and EFF: Is there another US coordination person, preferably one capable of communicating in Russian? Thanks, Rob - /dev/rob0 ______________________________________________________________________ __ To: Vladimir V. Putin, President, Russian Federation From: Rob McGee Subject: USA prosecution of Dmitri Sklyarov Dear Mr. President, First, please accept my apologies for being unable to address you in your native language. I was born in the USA and have lived all my life here, where the education systems tend to ignore the importance of teaching foreign languages. While only incidental, that serious oversight of US education may help serve to explain the attitudes of Americans and of their legal system. Most people I know in the USA seem to think that the USA *is* the world; if there is anything of significance is outside it, it exists only to be exploited by Americans. Dmitri Sklyarov, a young father from Moscow, who is a doctoral candidate at Bauman Moscow State Technical University, is employed at Elcomsoft (http://www.elcomsoft.com/). In his work there (also related to his doctoral studies), he discovered glaring weaknesses in the security of the eBook format, created and sold by Adobe Systems of San Jose, California, USA. (In marketing literature aimed at electronic publishers Adobe claimed their eBooks were "100% secure".) Using Dmitri's research, Elcomsoft created a program which allows an eBook user to circumvent the restrictions imposed by the eBook software. Called "AEBPR", this software does nothing to promote piracy; it merely enables eBook users to exercise their traditional rights of fair use, such as making copies for backup or use on other computers or under operating systems not supported by Adobe's eBook reader software. The Moscow-based Elcomsoft offered it for sale on the Internet for US$100, which is well above the price of a typical eBook. Clearly, this is not a tool for theft or piracy. Dmitri was invited to the DefCon conference (for computer security professionals) in Las Vegas, Nevada, USA, and asked to give a presenta- tion on the poor security of Adobe's eBook format. He did that, and was arrested under the terms of a new and unjust law, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). He has been denied bail, and has been imprisoned for more than two weeks now. The act of giving a speech is protected under the US Constitution's First Amendment. Unfortunately, we in the USA cannot expect our Congress, our law enforcement officials, nor our judicial system to uphold the Constitution. The prosecuting attorney in this case (David Shapiro, acting US Attorney for the Northern District of California) has shown no willingness to relent from this cruel, unjust and unwise action. If the legal process goes on at its usual slow pace, Dmitri will be kept from his home and his family for months before he even comes to trial. The outcome of the trial is far from certain; in fact, my personal guess is that he will be convicted and given the maximum penalty under law (five years in prison and a US$500,000 fine.) While in prison, he could possibly be subjected to civil litigation which could cost him everything he owns, and more than the meager amounts which have been raised through donations. You, sir, are certainly more familiar with Russian law than are those of us in the small community of Americans who are working to help Dmitri. It is our understanding that the research he performed was perfectly legal where he did it, in Russia. The resulting AEBPR software gives users their fair use rights, which we understand are guaranteed under your law. And this is why I am writing to you, and asking that your government join in our efforts to help Dmitri. Quite simply, the USA is not a safe place for Russians. Your law-abiding citizens may be imprisoned while visiting the USA, if the US FBI (or any of thousands of local law enforcement authorities) suspects them of violating *American* laws while at home in Russia. This is an egregious infringement on your national sovereignty, and a flagrant violation of established protocols in international law. As a responsible member of the United Nations and the world community, you have a compelling interest in discouraging this kind of behavior by the USA. Finally I want to address the humanitarian issues. Like Dmitri, I am the father of two young children. He and they are missing out on these very important early years, which of course can never be recovered. Those children need their father, and he needs to be with them. American supporters have offered to raise funds for his family's travel and lodging in the USA, but Dmitri's wife Oksana has very wisely refused the offer, probably out of fear for her safety. (At least while she remains in Russia she can be fairly certain that her children will be with their mother.) Please act to help Dmitri. You, sir, are probably in the best position to be able to help him return home. You can get the attention of President Bush -- we have been rebuffed by low-level officials. This being a Federal prosecution rather than a local one, it is within his direct Constitutional and statutory authority to put an immediate end to this travesty of justice. I am willing to do what I can to assist you if you should consider my request. Unfortunately, I am not in a position to do much; I am not even an official representative of any of the organizations for Dmitri. For more information and coordination with US-based support groups, I ask you to contact Robin Gross of the Electronic Frontier Foundation (http://www.eff.org/) at 454 Shotwell Street, San Francisco, CA 94110 USA, e-mail: robin@eff.org, voice: 1.415.863.5459, facsimile: 1.415.436.9993 (English language). For information and coordination with Dmitri and his family, you could contact Vladimir Katalov (in Russian) at travel@elcomsoft.com. There is also a good bilingual information site with a Russian-language mailing list at http://ezhe.ru/elcomsoft/ . I thank you for your time and attention to this matter. I wish you and Russia the best. I am sure you realize that not all Americans are in support of the US Government, which has grown far beyond democratic and Constitutional control. Sincerely, Rob McGee My Town, State, USA _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From mickeym at mindspring.com Tue Jul 31 19:18:27 2001 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (mickeym) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NPR's Marketplace Message-ID: <3B6766F3.A21B3BD4@mindspring.com> There was a story on NPR's Marketplace this evening that portrayed our situation in a very positive light: http://www.marketplace.org/shows/2001/07/31_mpp.html "Forget about creating havoc for havoc's sake, today's hackers promote their political agendas as they hack away. Marketplace commentator Louis Koch keys in to a world of wide weird web-suspense." Free Dmitry! mickeym From SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com Tue Jul 31 19:20:47 2001 From: SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com (Rob McGee) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A natural ally -- Stephen King? Message-ID: <20010731212047.I3113@hal> Think about it. This is a writer who fought the growing cancer of IP, and he did it creatively, offering his fare at a fair, low price. I don't know how that went for him, but I just checked his Web site ( http://www.stephenking.com/ ) and it said the project is on hold for the time being. I don't know anything about it -- I only vaguely recall hearing about him offering a novel free for download, and asking only US$1 or so as payment if you liked it. I also thought I had heard he was successful with it, but if so, it looks like the IP thugs have figured out a way to put him out of business. Does anyone know more about that project of his? Was it motivated as I suspect it might have been, to eliminate the slimy IP weasels of the publishing business? If so, he's our man. If we can get a high-profile popular mainstream personality to pick up our banner, we can increase the attention we get. Plus, he's loaded with connections to other authors and celebrities. Perhaps someone from EFF, or with authority to speak for Dmitri himself, should write to him and ask for his support. Just a suggestion, trying to help ... Rob - /dev/rob0 From rabbi at quickie.net Tue Jul 31 19:29:41 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A natural ally -- Stephen King? In-Reply-To: <20010731212047.I3113@hal> Message-ID: I mentioned this a while ago. We don't want to flood him with email. If you're looking at places to focus your energy, we could use people writing letters to the AAP members. Seth has a list of the ones who haven't responded to use yet, I believe. On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Rob McGee wrote: > Think about it. This is a writer who fought the growing cancer of IP, > and he did it creatively, offering his fare at a fair, low price. I > don't know how that went for him, but I just checked his Web site > ( http://www.stephenking.com/ ) and it said the project is on hold for > the time being. > > I don't know anything about it -- I only vaguely recall hearing about > him offering a novel free for download, and asking only US$1 or so as > payment if you liked it. I also thought I had heard he was successful > with it, but if so, it looks like the IP thugs have figured out a way to > put him out of business. > > Does anyone know more about that project of his? Was it motivated as I > suspect it might have been, to eliminate the slimy IP weasels of the > publishing business? > > If so, he's our man. If we can get a high-profile popular mainstream > personality to pick up our banner, we can increase the attention we get. > Plus, he's loaded with connections to other authors and celebrities. > Perhaps someone from EFF, or with authority to speak for Dmitri himself, > should write to him and ask for his support. > > Just a suggestion, trying to help ... > > Rob - /dev/rob0 > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- Len Sassaman Security Architect | Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." | http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens From schoen at loyalty.org Tue Jul 31 19:38:58 2001 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NPR's Marketplace In-Reply-To: <3B6766F3.A21B3BD4@mindspring.com>; from mickeym@mindspring.com on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 10:18:27PM -0400 References: <3B6766F3.A21B3BD4@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20010731193858.G719@zork.net> mickeym writes: > There was a story on NPR's Marketplace this evening that portrayed our > situation in a very positive light: > > http://www.marketplace.org/shows/2001/07/31_mpp.html So this is actually the _third_ nationwide NPR piece on Sklyarov: they had Morning Edition and Science Friday pieces earlier. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) From kieran at digitalflock.org Tue Jul 31 19:41:17 2001 From: kieran at digitalflock.org (kieran hervold) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:54 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boucher kicking DMCA ass! In-Reply-To: <20010731165020.B60227@networkcommand.com>; from jono@microshaft.org on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 04:50:20PM -0700 References: <20010731165020.B60227@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <20010731194117.D8503@digitalflock.org> Jon O . blathered: > > http://TheStandard.com/article/0,1902,28395,00.html > > Boucher is currently drafting legislation that would amend a section > of the 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act ... Boucher isn't sure when he'll introduce the new proposed legislation, tentatively called the Digital Music Bill, though he thinks it most likely will be in the fall. ... "It could come later this week" THIS would be the time to pressure our respective Representatives, then ... kieran -- life's too short for analog. -- MLM From mw at themail.com Tue Jul 31 19:43:19 2001 From: mw at themail.com (mw@themail.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Phoenix? Message-ID: <200107312242439.SM00459@mail.TheMail.com> Phoenix went off ok, but low turn out. The heat has a tendency to do so. HOwever I did receive a call from ABC in San Fran wanting to send out an affiliate here to get the story... of course I got the msg too late. she's interested in future protests, Her name is Dera and her number is 415-355-4552 We're moving the protest/flyer distro for Saturday to the Phoenix public library. We are blasting the ASU college campus and Mill Ave (hang outs) (still in summer sessions) tomorrow and the rest of the week with info for Saturday's. we did have interested people and handed out some flyers and got our woots and honks and thumbs ups. got an interesting letter from a friend in Canada that might do one there. We'll know soon. -marcia ****** Original Message ****** From: Klepht Sent: Tue 07/31/2001 06:39 PM To: free-sklyarov Subject: [free-sklyarov] Phoenix? How'd Phoenix go off? > > > >~Klepht > > > >-- > >klepht@eleutheria.org > >target="_new">http://www.eleutheria.org/ > > > >_______________________________________________ > >free-sklyarov mailing list > >free-sklyarov@zork.net > >target="_new">http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________________________ TheMail.com - Full featured premium email you can count on. Sign-up today at http://www.themail.com/ From cycmn at nyct.net Tue Jul 31 19:55:23 2001 From: cycmn at nyct.net (J.E. Cripps) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] the Russian angle (was "NC Call ...") In-Reply-To: <20010731174010.G3113@hal> Message-ID: <20010731225249.V43200-100000@bsd1.nyct.net> > distribute flyers in my town, because I would end up in jail. The pigs > here already know and hate me, and I can't afford jail time and fines Umm, the reference to your local force is umm, not helpful. The ppl most active in NYLUG rallies universally report good relations with the NYPD. Sorry yours aren't. But I advise ppl not to drag in anachronistics and offensive language. Also, ppl might mention that there is being created yet another fed enforcement force, and watch the reaction. From bobds at blorch.org Tue Jul 31 19:59:40 2001 From: bobds at blorch.org (Bob Smart) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NC Call to Protest In-Reply-To: <20010731140337.D3113@hal> References: <20010731140337.D3113@hal> Message-ID: <01073119594005.05134@bitworks> On Tuesday 31 July 2001 12:03, you wrote: > > Please act quickly to help free an innocent man, and save the US > > Government time, money, and embarrasment. Here is what you can do: > > Why would we want to save time, money, and embarrassment for the US > gov't? This DMCA crap is not an aberration of an otherwise good and just > system. It is the typical behavior of a tyranny. > > I recognize that few of you will agree with me, but perhaps over time, > as you see things like this and have some similar experiences of your > own, you will learn what I have learned. Personally, I DO agree with you...but still I must disagree with you. You're absolutely right, this is not aberrant--but if we want to gain the support of the American public, calling the American public a bunch of Nazi pigs is probably not the most effective strategy for doing it. Instead, that's a dandy method for persuading people that Dmitry and his little geek friends ARE true enemies of the Republic who don't love America, don't love their mothers, and richly deserve to rot in jail. The government isn't "embarrassed" about this at all. It may or may not be possible to get the people to be shocked and appalled at what's being done in their name, but we won't gain their trust and support by attacking them. -- What I wrote above is hereby dedicated to the public domain and may be freely used, in whole or in part, with or without attribution. From rsperberg at yahoo.com Tue Jul 31 20:07:56 2001 From: rsperberg at yahoo.com (Roger Sperberg) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NPR's Marketplace In-Reply-To: <20010731193858.G719@zork.net> Message-ID: This actually makes _four_, because the first piece by Rick Karr appeared on All Things Considered on July 18, before his Morning Edition piece on July 19. -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of Seth David Schoen Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 10:39 PM To: 'free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] NPR's Marketplace mickeym writes: > There was a story on NPR's Marketplace this evening that portrayed our > situation in a very positive light: > > http://www.marketplace.org/shows/2001/07/31_mpp.html So this is actually the _third_ nationwide NPR piece on Sklyarov: they had Morning Edition and Science Friday pieces earlier. -- Seth David Schoen | Its really terrible when FBI arrested Temp. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | hacker, who visited USA with peacefull down: http://www.loyalty.org/ (CAF) | mission -- to share his knowledge with http://www.freesklyarov.org/ | american nation. (Ilya V. Vasilyev) _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com Tue Jul 31 20:14:38 2001 From: SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com (Rob McGee) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:55 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A natural ally -- Stephen King? In-Reply-To: ; from rabbi@quickie.net on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 07:29:41PM -0700 References: <20010731212047.I3113@hal> Message-ID: <20010731221438.J3113@hal> On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 07:29:41PM -0700, Len Sassaman wrote: > I mentioned this a while ago. We don't want to flood him with email. Sorry, I should have searched the list archives. Early on, I wasn't reading the whole list. I don't remember seeing anything in the subject lines about him. So, was I right about what he was doing and why? Do you know why he put it on hold? Since I thought of it I have become rather curious. :) > If you're looking at places to focus your energy, we could use people :) Most of my energy is spent the way most of Dmitri's energy *should* be spent -- taking care of toddlers. :) ... > writing letters to the AAP members. Seth has a list of the ones who > haven't responded to use yet, I believe. ... but I'll be glad to help out with this. Point me there, please. Rob - /dev/rob0 From alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Tue Jul 31 20:37:48 2001 From: alexf at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Alex Fabrikant) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] segment times on NPR's Marketplace In-Reply-To: <3B6766F3.A21B3BD4@mindspring.com> Message-ID: The story that mentions Dmitry runs from 11'12"-14'12". Doesn't cover much ground in terms of content, but is certainly complimentary. On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, mickeym wrote: > There was a story on NPR's Marketplace this evening that portrayed our > situation in a very positive light: > > http://www.marketplace.org/shows/2001/07/31_mpp.html > > "Forget about creating havoc for havoc's sake, today's hackers promote > their political agendas as they hack away. Marketplace commentator Louis > Koch keys in to a world of wide weird web-suspense." > > Free Dmitry! > mickeym > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > -- -alexf From SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com Tue Jul 31 20:49:06 2001 From: SerrQzvgev at zxmail.com (Rob McGee) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] NC Call to Protest In-Reply-To: <01073119594005.05134@bitworks>; from bobds@blorch.org on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 07:59:40PM -0700 References: <20010731140337.D3113@hal> <01073119594005.05134@bitworks> Message-ID: <20010731224906.K3113@hal> On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 07:59:40PM -0700, Bob Smart wrote: > > Why would we want to save time, money, and embarrassment for the US > > gov't? This DMCA crap is not an aberration of an otherwise good and just > > system. It is the typical behavior of a tyranny. > > > > I recognize that few of you will agree with me, but perhaps over time, > > as you see things like this and have some similar experiences of your > > own, you will learn what I have learned. > > Personally, I DO agree with you...but still I must disagree with you. You're > absolutely right, this is not aberrant--but if we want to gain the support of > the American public, calling the American public a bunch of Nazi pigs is > probably not the most effective strategy for doing it. Instead, that's a Oh Bob, I fully understand that, and I think in one post in this thread I did indicate as much. :) I wasn't really suggesting that Adrian reword that particular passage. Sometimes I have to vent a bit. You know how it is, I'm sure. For me that kind of rhetoric is offensive ... > dandy method for persuading people that Dmitry and his little geek friends > ARE true enemies of the Republic who don't love America, don't love their > mothers, and richly deserve to rot in jail. ... just as my rhetoric is offensive to americans. :) The difference is that if our viewpoint was more prevalent, we wouldn't be trying to exterminate (or jail, which is not much different IMO) those who disagree with us, as americans often do. (I do expect to end up in jail, but I'm trying to lay low at least until my children are older.) > The government isn't "embarrassed" about this at all. It may or may not be No, but "the gov't" is not monolithic, either. A lot of people in the legislative branch, as well as some in the executive, might squirm at the prospect of losing technical conferences to Mexico and Canada in the name of freedom. Most americans have a big fantasy about being THE "land of freedom" -- best in the world, blah. They're not going to like this if it interferes with their fantasies. Which leads me to other matters, coming back on topic about how we might be able to help Dmitri. I've mentioned the Russian angle in a fork off of this thread. But there is no reason for it to be limited to Russia! If a few "respectable" countries (as defined in US public opinion, I mean) issue travel alerts advising their citizens against travel to the USA because of human rights abuses and extraterritorial jurisdiction claims, that might cause some of the people who comprise "the gov't" to become uncomfortable and to take notice of the situation. And it might also get the attention of (and mobilize the lobbying power of) the US domestic tourism and hospitality industry. Since economic interests are usually the force behind US public policy, with economic pressure being applied we might see the policy change. Just like Adobe did, backing down from their hard-line stance. Thanks for your reply. Rob - /dev/rob0 From rabbi at quickie.net Tue Jul 31 21:06:21 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A natural ally -- Stephen King? In-Reply-To: <20010731221438.J3113@hal> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Rob McGee wrote: > On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 07:29:41PM -0700, Len Sassaman wrote: > > I mentioned this a while ago. We don't want to flood him with email. > > Sorry, I should have searched the list archives. Early on, I wasn't > reading the whole list. I don't remember seeing anything in the subject > lines about him. No problem -- I am not even sure if it was this, or one of the other Dmitry lists, that I posted it to. (I just don't think that SK would appreciate being slashdotted. :) ) > So, was I right about what he was doing and why? Do you know why he put > it on hold? Since I thought of it I have become rather curious. :) When he announced it, didn't he say he would keep writing as long as 50% of the people downloading it paid for it? Perhaps the numbers didn't turn out as he hoped. > > If you're looking at places to focus your energy, we could use people > > :) Most of my energy is spent the way most of Dmitri's energy *should* > be spent -- taking care of toddlers. :) ... Sure. :) > > writing letters to the AAP members. Seth has a list of the ones who > > haven't responded to use yet, I believe. > > ... but I'll be glad to help out with this. Point me there, please. Seth? You have that list? Len From mark at blorch.org Tue Jul 31 21:11:22 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Call to artists In-Reply-To: <3B673EBA.F70@indierecords.com> References: <3B673EBA.F70@indierecords.com> Message-ID: <01073121112201.01042@bilbo.blorch.org> (Xpost from the international list) I agree with you totally that writers, musicians, and other artists are our natural allies. What's been going on is that rights are being stripped away on *both sides. Payments for those who *create this almighty "content" are being pushed down while charges to those who *consume "content" are rising. There was a recent push by the recording industry to declare (by law) all works older than about 35 years to be "work-for-hire." Which means everybody who ever did a song would lose *all rights* after 35 years. Lose those rights to, you guessed it, corporations. It was only the outrage of the wealthier singer/song writers who fought the law back. Recently, also, writers had to sue all the way to the Supreme Court to get paid for "digital compilations" that included their work. The "industry" was taking the position that if they created a compilation for Internet access (like a database) that they didn't have to pay the *authors.* It took suing for ages (as SCOTUS suits do) to get the right to be paid for your work. This is happening all over. Corporations are pushing "work-for-hire" on creators (meaning you sell ALL your rights for a one time payment and NO royalties) while screeching they must "protect copyright." There is all this babble about how if we don't "protect copyright" then there won't be any incentive to create. But if there is any destruction of "incentive" going on, it's the corporations doing all the screeching. THEY are destroying the "incentive" to bother with writing songs or a book or whatever then trying to get a publishing or recording or what have you contract. I had a *very nasty falling out with my former publisher when I found they were shipping thousands of copies of a book of mine behind my back. Then on being caught, they tried to trick me into (this was SO stupid) amending my contract with them to say that what they did was perfectly okay. Given that they had a legal staff out the wahzoo, it became clear that I didn't stand a chance (in fact, the attorney said this was "common practice"--the particular trick they pulled, how they categorized the shipments to get out of paying royalties, etc.--and we'd probably lose). And things are just getting worse. The public generally feels that the creators should be compensated and should have their copyrights protected. If we can get across that this is NOT about protecting the artists and NOT about protecting their rights, it might reach more people. I need to do some research on some of the cases of what's happening to the creators of "content." See what I could whip up as a flyer or article on a website. Something to get across to people that the creators are being screwed, the programmers are being screwed, and the *public is being screwed. All so a few media corporations can squeeze some more cash out of us all. Mark (rambling again) On Tuesday 31 July 2001 16:26, Keith Handy wrote: > I suggest we make a worldwide call for support from artists, musicians, > and authors in addition to programmers. > > I say this because although some publishing companies might have the > decency to speak out on this manner, the DMCA works on their behalf. > This applies as well to the major record labels, bloated software > companies, and so forth. The internet, from its arrival into popular > culture, has primarily been a threat to MARKETING ENTITIES and other > such middle-men. The DMCA was pushed into law, I think, by their fear > (a fear legitimately grounded in the reality) that we might not need > them anymore. > > As any technology comes into existence, there is a public backlash > because of the shifts in power, and the eradicating of the needs that > employ some of us. If the invention of a new machine eliminated the > need for certain laborers, those people lost their jobs. Often times > there were moves to outlaw or heavily restrict the new technology for > this very reason, and innovators were sacrificed for the short-term good > of the workers. > > It is my impression that this is exactly what passed the DMCA, only now > the ones fearing for their jobs happen to have an obscene amount of > prestige and buying power. It is not a copyright law; we already *had* > copyright law, and it was more than enough to serve its original purpose > of guaranteeing authors (and other creative people) the right to profit > from the work of their own minds. If someone blatantly ripped off your > work and passed it off as their own, you could take them to court, prove > it, and get the money that should have been yours. > > But the proponents of DMCA, as far as I can tell, are not artists, > writers, musicians, or programmers. They are, as far as I can tell, > MARKETING PEOPLE, who are quite possibly in mortal fear of their own > obsoletion. > > I am almost tempted to feel sympathy for them, but after reading > numerous accounts (often from the artists themselves, look up Courtney > Love's essay for a prime example) about how they've been ripping off > their own clients for years, I don't believe that rescuing them from the > inevitable is a high moral priority at this point. Those who have been > good and fair to their artists will probably continue to be empolyed by > those artists, even as the nature of the work changes. > > Yes, I know I'm making extremely broad generalizations (I'm certainly > not speaking for Metallica here), but I think this is the general > anatomy of the issue, and I think we could get a few *huge*, well-known > names (not just computer legends, but the kind of celebrities that > non-computer people would listen to) speaking out on our behalf -- if we > bypass the middlemen -- and bring our cause out into the light. > > -Keith > > P.S. if you haven't seen my piggy yet: > http://www.indierecords.com/protest/pig.htm > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From mark at blorch.org Tue Jul 31 21:24:59 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Long term thoughts [was: Sen. Hatch "commends" DOJ for Sklyarov arrest, IP prosecutions] In-Reply-To: <20010731151135.D59052@networkcommand.com> References: <20010731151135.D59052@networkcommand.com> Message-ID: <01073121245902.01042@bilbo.blorch.org> I see Hatch is just so proud of himself for wrecking constitutional rights he could just wet himself. I can't help but thinking that over the long haul, the best solution is to literally pull the rug out from under these scum corporations. Their great fear is that artists, the creators of "content," will connect directly to the public via the 'Net. Who needs the "middleman" leeching off your work if you can reach your public without them? Over the long term, I think the best solution will be creating *open, non-proprietary systems that enable artists to deliver "content" directly to their audience. Eliminate the leeches that have been sucking the life out of both the creator and the public. I think a strong alliance with artists would be profitable over the long haul. The media corporations are going to just keep at it, trying to squeeze more out of both the creators and the public. It would be nice to build systems in which the corporations could have all kinds of "protections" of content... but NO CONTENT. I think many, many artists are ready to "jump ship." It's begun with some of the more powerful ones (like King). But one of the great promises of the 'Net would be connecting even the most obscure artists with their hanful of fans. Ultimately, I think the best defense will be a strong "offense." Cut the middle-leeches out entirely. Mark I On Tuesday 31 July 2001 15:11, Jon O . wrote: > ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- > > X-Sender: declan@mail.well.com > X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 > Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 16:20:27 -0400 > To: politech@politechbot.com > From: Declan McCullagh > Subject: FC: Sen. Hatch "commends" DOJ for Sklyarov arrest, IP prosecutions > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: declan@well.com > X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ > X-Author: Declan McCullagh is at http://www.mccullagh.org/ > X-News-Site: Cluebot is at http://www.cluebot.com/ > > This is an excerpt from transcript of Monday's hearing of the Senate > Judiciary committee. "Free Sklyarov" activists had hoped that the case > would be brought up during the confirmation hearings, but I suspect this > isn't what they had in mind. Robert Mueller, of course, is President Bush's > pick to be FBI director. > > Info on hearing: > http://judiciary.senate.gov/hr073001f.htm > > Politech archive on U.S. v. Sklyarov: > http://www.politechbot.com/cgi-bin/politech.cgi?name=sklyarov > > Politech archive on DMCA: > http://www.politechbot.com/cgi-bin/politech.cgi?name=dmca > > "Congress is more than doubling number of federal copyright cops" > http://www.politechbot.com/p-02321.html > > -Declan > > ********* > > SEN. HATCH: One of the areas of prosecution for which you are > particularly known is that of computer and intellectual-property crime. As > U.S. attorney for the northern district of California, you created a > section called the Computer Hacking and Intellectual Property, or CHIP. > Recently Attorney General Ashcroft recognized your success in the most > sincere and flattering way possible by announcing the formation of nine > additional CHIPs units around the country. And as you know, a subset of > this area, criminal copyright enforcement, is of key importance to this > committee. We've devoted considerable energy over the past number of years > to Internet enforcement in particular. > > In 1997, we enacted the No Electronic Theft, or the NET Act, combining > criminal penalties for certain non-commercial Internet pirates. In 1998, we > passed the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, or the DMCA it's called, which > helps combat trafficking and hacking devices designed to defeat > technological protections for copyrighted material. We also enacted the > Digital Theft Deterrence and Copyright Damages Improvement Act to speed the > implementation of the NET Act and to improve on-line theft deterrence > generally. And we have even earmarked additional funding for DOJ > specifically for the investigation and prosecution of cyber-crime. > > The committee's work is starting to bear fruit in the form of criminal > prosecutions of Internet piracy. So far this year, the number of NET Act > prosecutions appears to be up, and we have just recently seen the first > criminal > prosecutions brought under the DMCA. Just this week, the Department of > Justice announced a series of new prosecutions of Internet crimes. > > I commended the Department of Justice for what I hope is a commitment > to cyber-crime enforcement, and I hope this becomes a priority for the FBI > as well. > Would you please outline for us, if you can, your plan as FBI director on > protecting the nation's computer infrastructure and intellectual property? > > MR. MUELLER: If I may go back briefly to what I saw when I took over as > U.S. > attorney in San Francisco. We had Silicon Valley in my district, and one of > the great issues was how do you protect -- or how do you not protect, but > how do you > combat high-tech crime? > > And the first thing I had to do was determine what do you mean by > high-tech crime, and I came to the conclusion that it should be broken down > in four ways: First of all, computer intrusions, denial-of- service > attacks; secondly, theft of intellectual property, economic espionage; > third, frauds on the Internet, distribution of child pornography on the > Internet; and fourthly, the theft of high-tech components such as computer > chips, hard drives and the like, all of which are critical to the high-tech > industry. > > We put together a unit in San Francisco and in San Jose because it was > important to develop the expertise in the United States attorneys, the > assistant > United States attorneys, who would be handling these cases. It was > important that we develop the relationship between the FBI agents, who had > the expertise to do these cases, the assistant United States attorneys who > were doing these cases, and the community. > > In addressing high-tech crime, it is critically important that we > develop the > relationships with those victims of high-tech crime in the high-tech > industry. And consequently, we will support -- should I be confirmed as the > director of the FBI, the FBI will support not only the unit that was set up > in the northern district of California, but also the other units to be set > up, announced by the attorney general last week. > > One other point I might make, and this goes to the issue of working > closely with the state and local authorities. There are too few > investigators with the skills we need to address this. And one of the > developments that has been useful > is what has been known or called a computer forensics lab, which was > established > in San Diego with a number of contributing participating agencies, both > federal and local. And it is that type of combined enterprise that we are > going to have to adopt if we are to address this new wave of separate > technological crime in the future. > > SEN. HATCH: Thank you. Mr. Mueller, as you know, the 2002 Winter > Olympics in > Salt Lake City, they're going to be the largest planned public safety and > law enforcement in our country in the foreseeable future. The law > enforcement community, including the FBI, has been working on the plans and > preparations for > several years. > > [...] > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list > You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. > To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html > This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From david at lupercalia.net Tue Jul 31 21:39:18 2001 From: david at lupercalia.net (David Merrill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Long term thoughts [was: Sen. Hatch "commends" DOJ for Sklyarov arrest, IP prosecutions] In-Reply-To: <01073121245902.01042@bilbo.blorch.org>; from mark@blorch.org on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 09:24:37PM -0700 References: <20010731151135.D59052@networkcommand.com> <01073121245902.01042@bilbo.blorch.org> Message-ID: <20010801003918.C4086@lupercalia.net> On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 09:24:37PM -0700, Mark K. Bilbo wrote: > I think a strong alliance with artists would be profitable over the long > haul. The media corporations are going to just keep at it, trying to squeeze > more out of both the creators and the public. It would be nice to build > systems in which the corporations could have all kinds of "protections" of > content... but NO CONTENT. > > I think many, many artists are ready to "jump ship." It's begun with some of > the more powerful ones (like King). But one of the great promises of the 'Net > would be connecting even the most obscure artists with their hanful of fans. > > Ultimately, I think the best defense will be a strong "offense." Cut the > middle-leeches out entirely. Now that's a sentiment I can get behind. The battle needs to be taken to them directly and publicly. These greedy robber barons of the 21st Century don't like to have their actions made truly public. They know what the public would feel. That is why Adobe backed down. If we could provide a viable (technically and financially) publishing house that really honored the creative gifts of our writers and artists, without putting sales parasites on them, we could have a thriving art community again instead of N'Sync and Britney. I mean, really. -- Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org Free Dmitri Sklyarov! http://www.freesklyarov.org Washington DC Protests http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca My rights and freedoms are a product of moral, ethical, and philosophical thought. They represent the intellectual property that I most want to keep secure. The Bill of Rights is my protection. The DMCA a circumvention device. -- austin@computershop.calgary.ab.ca.nospam From crawford at goingware.com Tue Jul 31 22:33:03 2001 From: crawford at goingware.com (Michael D. Crawford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] A natural ally -- Stephen King? Message-ID: <3B67948F.724ABF13@goingware.com> Stephen King made a nationwide motorcycle tour a few years ago on behalf of independent bookstores. I saw him when he spoke at the Santa Cruz Civic Auditorium after visiting Bookshop Santa Cruz. Basically his point was that the small bookstores had made him famous when he was just starting out, but big bookstore chains and the online sites only make efforts to promote authors who are already known to be best-selling. I don't remember all of what he said but the general tone of independence and doing the right thing he spoke about would suggest he would support our cause. Bangor is just a couple hours away for me now (I moved to Maine) so if someone could arrange a meeting I could go and meet with him conveniently. You probably don't want to bother sending an email as he must get torrents of fan mail. I would suggest sending him a letter via FedEx or Express Mail. I don't know his postal address but his house in Bangor is someone famous for once being a favorite of local halloween trick-or-treaters. It shouldn't be too hard to find out. Mike -- Michael D. Crawford GoingWare Inc. - Expert Software Development and Consulting http://www.goingware.com crawford@goingware.com Tilting at Windmills for a Better Tomorrow. From admin at seattle-chat.com Tue Jul 31 22:30:06 2001 From: admin at seattle-chat.com (Charles Eakins) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] the Russian angle (was "NC Call ...") In-Reply-To: <20010731225249.V43200-100000@bsd1.nyct.net> Message-ID: Jail time and fines for what? -----Original Message----- From: free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net [mailto:free-sklyarov-admin@zork.net]On Behalf Of J.E. Cripps Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 7:55 PM To: free-sklyarov@zork.net Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] the Russian angle (was "NC Call ...") > distribute flyers in my town, because I would end up in jail. The pigs > here already know and hate me, and I can't afford jail time and fines Umm, the reference to your local force is umm, not helpful. The ppl most active in NYLUG rallies universally report good relations with the NYPD. Sorry yours aren't. But I advise ppl not to drag in anachronistics and offensive language. Also, ppl might mention that there is being created yet another fed enforcement force, and watch the reaction. _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From jstyre at jstyre.com Tue Jul 31 22:51:10 2001 From: jstyre at jstyre.com (James S. Tyre) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:56 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: USENIX attendees In-Reply-To: <20010731085304.D29289@lupercalia.net> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010731002734.00bab330@earthlink.net> <20010731021027.E26025@lupercalia.net> <20010731021027.E26025@lupercalia.net> <20010731021627.F26025@lupercalia.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010731002734.00bab330@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010731224035.00b4cf08@earthlink.net> Wednesday the 15th definitely is bad, since the folks I know who are on this list and who will be at USENIX have specific commitments at various times that day (I forgot to mention Richard Smith, who's giving the Keynote that day). I suspect that a lot of folks won't be getting to USENIX until the tech sessions start on Wednesday, so Thursday or Friday may be better than Monday or Tuesday, but that's just a guess. At 08:53 AM 7/31/2001 -0400, David Merrill wrote: >On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 12:48:20AM -0700, James S. Tyre wrote: > > At 02:16 AM 7/31/2001 -0400, David Merrill wrote: > > >On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 02:10:05AM -0400, David Merrill wrote: > > > > Who is on the list and attending the USENIX event starting August > > > > 15th? > > > > > >Ummm, I mean 13th. Sorry I'm cixelsyd. > > > > For starters, Robin Gross, Scott Craver, me. As well as most/all of the > > rest of the researchers/co-authors of "Reading Between the Lines ..." and > > their EFF or EFF-affiliated lawyers. The others just aren't on this list, > > to my knowledge. > >Great. So to those people, when would be the best time for us to >schedule a rally that week? > >-- >Dr. David C. Merrill http://www.lupercalia.net >Linux Documentation Project david@lupercalia.net >Collection Editor & Coordinator http://www.linuxdoc.org > > Free Dmitri -> http://www.boycottadobe.com > Washington, DC Protest http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca/ > >We have no intention of shipping another bloated OS and shoving it down the >throats of our users. > --Paul Maritz, former Microsoft Vice President -------------------------------------------------------------------- James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net From free-sklyarov at onethumb.com Tue Jul 31 23:12:32 2001 From: free-sklyarov at onethumb.com (Don MacAskill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Update from Zimmermann speech & Alex, pres of Elcomsoft Message-ID: <008901c11a50$f350a8e0$637ba8c0@vunicorn> I just updated my site with information from both Phil Zimmermann and Aleksandr Katalov (president of Elcomsoft) about Dmitry. Phil's presentation was great, and there was some media there, so hopefully it made an impression. http://www.onethumb.com/article.pl?sid=01/08/01/0446220&mode=thread&threshold= Don -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20010731/5e0e1016/attachment.html From paul at paultopia.net Tue Jul 31 23:19:39 2001 From: paul at paultopia.net (Paul Gowder) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Boise? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010731224035.00b4cf08@earthlink.net> References: <20010731085304.D29289@lupercalia.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010731002734.00bab330@earthlink.net> <20010731021027.E26025@lupercalia.net> <20010731021027.E26025@lupercalia.net> <20010731021627.F26025@lupercalia.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010731002734.00bab330@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010801001915.031eb490@mail.paultopia.net> Anyone here from Boise, ID want to put something together? -Paul Gowder -- -Paul Gowder "It's because they're stupid. That's why everyone does everything." - Homer Simpson -- From crism at maden.org Tue Jul 31 23:04:42 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Hacktivism? Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731230340.0386da60@mail.maden.org> I heard a rumor tonight at Phil Zimmermann's talk that last week a couple of small Web sites had been 0wn3d by supporters of Dmitry. I hadn't seen anything about that here or in the media; can anyone confirm or deny? -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From crism at maden.org Tue Jul 31 23:13:10 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's lawyer? Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731230914.03869630@mail.maden.org> Phil Zimmermann tonight indicated that Dmitry was being represented by Joe B___, a lawyer who had represented Phil's co-defendant when he was under investigation. I'm not sure where he got the name, or what exactly it was - does anyone have more information? Phil's chief piece of advice was a legal defense fund for Dmitry, to be set up by the lawyer for best results. He also advised media involvement, which we seem to be doing OK with. (There was some press at Phil's talk (print only, I think), but I don't know how much.) -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From crism at maden.org Tue Jul 31 23:09:07 2001 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] ANNOUNCEMENT: Global IRC Free Dmitry Summit - 8/2/2001 In-Reply-To: <87vgk8hdm4.fsf@priss.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisc o.ca.us> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731230747.03860290@mail.maden.org> At 16:40 31-07-2001, Klepht wrote: >So, let's have a global summit of local groups to coordinate our next >steps in Freeing Dmitry. I can't make the IRC but my suggestion would be that Dmitry's transfer to San Jos? would be an excellent focus for the next Bay Area action, possibly co?rdinated with actions in other cities. We may need to be ready to go on short notice, but we seem to have been OK with that at the last two. -crism -- David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. === Freelance Text Nerd: === PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA From rabbi at quickie.net Tue Jul 31 23:47:04 2001 From: rabbi at quickie.net (Len Sassaman) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:57 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's lawyer? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731230914.03869630@mail.maden.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Christopher R. Maden wrote: > Phil Zimmermann tonight indicated that Dmitry was being represented by Joe > B___, a lawyer who had represented Phil's co-defendant when he was under > investigation. I'm not sure where he got the name, or what exactly it was > - does anyone have more information? I can ask "Phil's co-defendant" if he knows anything. If this is the case, then Dmitry is in good hands. > Phil's chief piece of advice was a legal defense fund for Dmitry, to be set > up by the lawyer for best results. He also advised media involvement, > which we seem to be doing OK with. (There was some press at Phil's talk > (print only, I think), but I don't know how much.) From free-sklyarov at onethumb.com Tue Jul 31 23:55:06 2001 From: free-sklyarov at onethumb.com (Don MacAskill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:57 2005 Subject: Fw: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's lawyer? Message-ID: <00b301c11a56$e5f71750$637ba8c0@vunicorn> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don MacAskill" To: ; "Christopher R. Maden" Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 11:52 PM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's lawyer? > > For what it's worth, Alex (Dmitry's boss, president of Elcomsoft) asked that > if possible (I know, Phil said it to an entire crowd, but still...), we not > reveal/spread the name of Dmitry's lawyer for awhile longer. > > Don > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christopher R. Maden" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 11:13 PM > Subject: [free-sklyarov] Dmitry's lawyer? > > > > Phil Zimmermann tonight indicated that Dmitry was being represented by Joe > > B___, a lawyer who had represented Phil's co-defendant when he was under > > investigation. I'm not sure where he got the name, or what exactly it was > > - does anyone have more information? > > > > Phil's chief piece of advice was a legal defense fund for Dmitry, to be > set > > up by the lawyer for best results. He also advised media involvement, > > which we seem to be doing OK with. (There was some press at Phil's talk > > (print only, I think), but I don't know how much.) > > > > -crism > > -- > > David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. > > > > === Freelance Text Nerd: === > > PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > From free-sklyarov at onethumb.com Tue Jul 31 23:55:17 2001 From: free-sklyarov at onethumb.com (Don MacAskill) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:05:57 2005 Subject: Fw: [free-sklyarov] ANNOUNCEMENT: Global IRC Free Dmitry Summit - 8/2/2001 Message-ID: <00b901c11a56$eca069d0$637ba8c0@vunicorn> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don MacAskill" To: ; "Christopher R. Maden" Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 11:54 PM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] ANNOUNCEMENT: Global IRC Free Dmitry Summit - 8/2/2001 > > Dmitry is currently in Oklahoma, and may or may not be transfered to San > Jose afterall. Dmitry has been told that if he is transfered to San Jose, > that he will bounce from jail to jail before arriving in SJ. > > So it may be awhile. I'd hate to lose the momentum. > > Don > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christopher R. Maden" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 11:09 PM > Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] ANNOUNCEMENT: Global IRC Free Dmitry Summit - > 8/2/2001 > > > > At 16:40 31-07-2001, Klepht wrote: > > >So, let's have a global summit of local groups to coordinate our next > > >steps in Freeing Dmitry. > > > > I can't make the IRC but my suggestion would be that Dmitry's transfer to > > San Jos? would be an excellent focus for the next Bay Area action, > possibly > > co?rdinated with actions in other cities. We may need to be ready to go > on > > short notice, but we seem to have been OK with that at the last two. > > > > -crism > > -- > > David Shapiro: You know what you doing. Free Dmitry! For great justice. > > > > === Freelance Text Nerd: === > > PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > free-sklyarov mailing list > > free-sklyarov@zork.net > > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov > > > From mark at blorch.org Sun Jul 22 20:59:07 2001 From: mark at blorch.org (Mark K. Bilbo) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:08:44 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Free Dmitry Sklyarov Rally to be held Monday 23 July 2001 in New York City In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01072220590704.10924@bilbo.blorch.org> Oh, hey, can we borrow the text for flyers and such for the LA rally? I'm beating my head against a wall here trying to write something myself. Mark On Sunday 22 July 2001 20:17, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > ==================================== > Demonstrations to be held Monday in over 20 cities worldwide > against the arrest of Russian programer by FBI > > New York Protest will be in front of the New York Public Library > on Monday, 23 July, on 5th Avenue between 41st and 42nd, at 12 noon. > ==================================== > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > > CONTACT INFORMATION: > LEONID GORKIN > 509 E 78TH STREET, APT 6D > NEW YORK, NY 10021 > 212 794 1565 > LGORKIN@EXCITE.COM OR LGORKIN1@NYC.RR.COM > > > TELL THE TRUTH, GO TO JAIL > > RALLY FOR DMITRY SKLYAROV > > (NEW YORK CITY, 22 July 2001) Last week, at the request of The > Adobe Corporation, Dmitry Sklyarov, a cryptographer, was arrested > and handed over to the federal prison system. The alleged crime: > He presented his research at an information technology industry > conference in Las Vegas. Mr. Sklyarov's analysis revealed that > Adobe uses a weak security architecture in its e-book product. > This sort of independent critical review is a normal and > necessary part of establishing the credibility of claims made > about a security enabled product. This act of revealing flaws > in a product was once legal in the US, but now, thanks to the > controversial 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) it > is a federal offense. > > Citing the DMCA, the Department of Justice charges Mr. Sklyarov > with trafficking in a "circumvention" device. In other words, > software that makes it possible for people who have paid for > a book to then read that book: Another thing that was once > legal in the US. > > The DMCA is a fatally flawed piece of legislation. It is > tailor-made law, bought and paid for by the publishing industry. > It was sold as a measure to 'protect copyright holders' but as > implemented it will destroy libraries and remove the written > record from the public domain. > > The fight to transform the DMCA into a law that balances > the needs of society with the privileges granted to copyright > holders is being led by the the Electronic Frontier Foundation. > In a July 20, 2001 letter to Attorney General John Ashcroft > the Executive Director of the EFF, Shari Steele, wrote: > > When the DMCA was passing through Congress in 1998, the > copyright industry promised it was needed as a shield > for protection. Now as law, it's used as a powerful > sword to squelch speech and competition and kill fair > use. Congress never intended for the DMCA to destroy > fair use, in fact it expressly tried to protect it. > > But there was no protection for Mr. Sklyarov. Unable to > strike at Elcomsoft, a Russian company that sells a decoder > for e-books, Adobe Corporation convinced the FBI to attack > Elcomsoft's employee, Mr. Sklyarov. In response to the outrage > sparked by the arrest, Adobe Corporation has offered to meet > with the EFF on Monday, presumably to find a way to free > Mr. Sklyarov. However, the government is not obliged to > dismiss the case should Adobe ask it to do so. > > New Yorkers (no affiliation with EFF) will demonstrate their > support for Mr. Dmitry Sklyarov in front of the New York Public > Library on Monday, 23 July, on 5th Avenue between 41st and 42nd, > at 12 noon. The message is simple: Free Dmitry! > > > > > More information can be found at: > > 1. http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/ > 2. http://www.freesklyarov.org/toadobe.html > 3. http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45298,00.html > 4. http://lwn.net/daily/alan-quits-als.php3 > 5. http://www.freesklyarov.org/ > 6. http://www.boycottadobe.com/ > 7. http://www.shrouded.net/nmdmitry.htm > 8. http://two-bit.northpark.edu/free-sklyarov/reuters-sklyarov.txt > 9. http://cryptome.org/usa-v-sklyarov.htm > 10. > http://two-bit.northpark.edu/free-sklyarov/chicago-protest-information.txt > 11. > http://two-bit.northpark.edu/free-sklyarov/sklyarov-chi-press-release.txt > 12. http://www.elcomsoft.com/aebpr.html > 13. http://www.elcomsoft.com/AEBPR/PDFSecurity.pdf > 14. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/ > 15. http://noframes.linuxjournal.com/articles/currents/0034.html > 16. http://www.ala.org/ > 17. http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36584-2001Feb7.html > 18. http://www.nyu.edu/dental/vitalbook/index.html > 19. http://www.nyu.edu/dental/vitalbook/faq.html > 20. http://www.emarketer.com/analysis/ecommerce_b2c/20010314_b2c.html > 21. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/ds-defcon2/ds-defcon.html > 22. http://www.visi.com/~tneu/voidwhereprohibited.html > 23. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html > 24. http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/Graphics/ > > > ------------------------ > Here is the same list with some small comments to > introduce each URI: > > Another day on the job > 1. http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/ > > Letter from an Adobe fan > 2. http://www.freesklyarov.org/toadobe.html > > That chilling effect... > 3. http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45298,00.html > > This one's already chilled > 4. http://lwn.net/daily/alan-quits-als.php3 > > "This is America?" > 5. http://www.freesklyarov.org/ > > Hit 'em where it hurts > 6. http://www.boycottadobe.com/ > > New Mexicans act up > 7. http://www.shrouded.net/nmdmitry.htm > > The news wire > 8. http://two-bit.northpark.edu/free-sklyarov/reuters-sklyarov.txt > > The charges > 9. http://cryptome.org/usa-v-sklyarov.htm > > These guys are better organized then we are > 10. > http://two-bit.northpark.edu/free-sklyarov/chicago-protest-information.txt > > And their press release is better, too > 11. > http://two-bit.northpark.edu/free-sklyarov/sklyarov-chi-press-release.txt > > That pesky Russian company. In addition to the uses cited in the > complaint there are a number of uses mentioned that call into > question the "primary purpose" of the "circumvention device" > as claimed by the FBI. It looks to me like the primary purpose > is to enable all the traditional fair use activities for e-book > content. > 12. http://www.elcomsoft.com/aebpr.html > > Ooops, looks like someone comitted a thought crime! > 13. http://www.elcomsoft.com/AEBPR/PDFSecurity.pdf > > If Touretzky can publish with impunity why persecute Dmitry? > Is it a case of "programming while Russian?" > Note that Touretzky gives it all away: Both the decoder > and the full-function key. Note also that this does > nothing for you unless you have paid for the e-book. > 14. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/ > > Professor Bryan Pfaffenberger's excellent article: > "In this essay, I'll argue that Sklyarov's case proves beyond any > doubt that the DMCA should be overturned by a high court action." > 15. http://noframes.linuxjournal.com/articles/currents/0034.html > > The librarians > 16. http://www.ala.org/ > > Fear of librarians > 17. http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36584-2001Feb7.html > > "Participation will be mandatory" > 18. http://www.nyu.edu/dental/vitalbook/index.html > > "We don't believe you won't like it" > 19. http://www.nyu.edu/dental/vitalbook/faq.html > > "In fact, two-thirds of all respondents were 'not at all likely' > to purchase an e-book" > 20. http://www.emarketer.com/analysis/ecommerce_b2c/20010314_b2c.html > > More thought crime > 21. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/ds-defcon2/ds-defcon.html > > "What if..." > 22. http://www.visi.com/~tneu/voidwhereprohibited.html > > Stallman saw it coming > 23. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html > > Dmitry Sklyarov's family > 24. http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/Graphics/ > > --- END --- > > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov