From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Apr 1 00:42:33 2002 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:09:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Elcomsoft hearing, April 1 (morning!) Message-ID: <20020401084233.GF11171@zork.net> Bright and early Monday morning: http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Elcomsoft/20020328_eff_elcom_pr.html Where: United States Courthouse, 280 South 1st Street, San Jose, California, 95113 Courtroom: 4th Floor, Courtroom 6 ... come one, come all ... -- Seth David Schoen | Reading is a right, not a feature! http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | -- Kathryn Myronuk http://vitanuova.loyalty.org/ | From akatalov at elcomsoft.com Mon Apr 1 01:01:30 2002 From: akatalov at elcomsoft.com (Alex Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:09:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Elcomsoft hearing, April 1 (morning!) In-Reply-To: <20020401084233.GF11171@zork.net> References: <20020401084233.GF11171@zork.net> Message-ID: <19020202936.20020401010130@elcomsoft.com> Hi Seth, Thank you for reminder and see you tomorrow :) Monday, April 01, 2002, 12:42:33 AM, you wrote: SDS> Bright and early Monday morning: SDS> http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Elcomsoft/20020328_eff_elcom_pr.html SDS> Where: United States Courthouse, 280 South 1st Street, San Jose, SDS> California, 95113 SDS> Courtroom: 4th Floor, Courtroom 6 SDS> ... come one, come all ... -- Best regards, Alex mailto:akatalov@elcomsoft.com From akatalov at elcomsoft.com Mon Apr 1 15:26:57 2002 From: akatalov at elcomsoft.com (Alex Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:09:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Elcomsoft hearing, April 1 Message-ID: <8432473044.20020401152657@elcomsoft.com> Judge considers dismissal of case against Russian software firm http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020401/ap_wo_en_ge/us_russian_programmer_3 Judge May Drop Russian Software Case http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020401/ap_on_hi_te/russian_programmer_3 Adobe-Hack Lawyers: Toss the Case http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51460,00.html -- Best regards, Alex mailto:akatalov@elcomsoft.com From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 1 16:57:56 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:09:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Elcomsoft hearing, April 1 In-Reply-To: <8432473044.20020401152657@elcomsoft.com> References: <8432473044.20020401152657@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: <02040116575601.32637@aether> On Monday 01 April 2002 15:26, Alex Katalov wrote: > Judge considers dismissal of case against Russian software firm > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020401/ap_wo_en_ge/us_r >ussian_programmer_3 > > Judge May Drop Russian Software Case > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020401/ap_on_hi_te/russ >ian_programmer_3 > > Adobe-Hack Lawyers: Toss the Case > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51460,00.html Hi, Alex: Has there been any discussion that you're aware of that focuses on what happens with this DMCA law, in terms of governmental agencies needing to use your products to "backup" technical ebooks? For universities that need your products to "backup" research ebooks? For libraries that need your products to "backup" their library inventories? The assumption is, that Adobe intends to move down the road, and have everything on its eBooks, thus making much money and profits, right? I suppose the same sort of question goes to the CBDTPA, and what impact it has on governmental use of "cp" "cat" and other utilities. Thanks, Tom From akatalov at elcomsoft.com Mon Apr 1 19:05:48 2002 From: akatalov at elcomsoft.com (Alex Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:09:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Elcomsoft hearing, April 1 In-Reply-To: <02040116575601.32637@aether> References: <8432473044.20020401152657@elcomsoft.com> <02040116575601.32637@aether> Message-ID: <4845605579.20020401190548@elcomsoft.com> Hi Tom, Unfortunately, my English is not so good to describe all what was there, but I hope that Seth will help me! I can say only that total discussion was not too long, and the time was limited - it seems that judge had learn most from the previously filed motions (you can see them at http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Elcomsoft/) and today he wants only to get an additional comments and clear some small details. tp> Hi, Alex: Has there been any discussion that you're aware of that focuses on tp> what happens with this DMCA law, in terms of governmental agencies needing to tp> use your products to "backup" technical ebooks? For universities that need tp> your products to "backup" research ebooks? For libraries that need your tp> products to "backup" their library inventories? The assumption is, that tp> Adobe intends to move down the road, and have everything on its eBooks, thus tp> making much money and profits, right? tp> I suppose the same sort of question goes to the CBDTPA, and what impact it tp> has on governmental use of "cp" "cat" and other utilities. tp> Thanks, tp> Tom -- Best regards, Alex mailto:akatalov@elcomsoft.com From schoen at loyalty.org Mon Apr 1 19:44:17 2002 From: schoen at loyalty.org (Seth David Schoen) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:09:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Elcomsoft hearing, April 1 In-Reply-To: <4845605579.20020401190548@elcomsoft.com> References: <8432473044.20020401152657@elcomsoft.com> <02040116575601.32637@aether> <4845605579.20020401190548@elcomsoft.com> Message-ID: <20020402034417.GO31363@zork.net> Alex Katalov writes: > Hi Tom, > > Unfortunately, my English is not so good to describe all what was > there, but I hope that Seth will help me! > > I can say only that total discussion was not too long, and the time > was limited - it seems that judge had learn most from the previously filed > motions (you can see them at http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Elcomsoft/) > and today he wants only to get an additional comments and clear some > small details. > > tp> Hi, Alex: Has there been any discussion that you're aware of that focuses on > tp> what happens with this DMCA law, in terms of governmental agencies needing to > tp> use your products to "backup" technical ebooks? For universities that need > tp> your products to "backup" research ebooks? For libraries that need your > tp> products to "backup" their library inventories? The assumption is, that > tp> Adobe intends to move down the road, and have everything on its eBooks, thus > tp> making much money and profits, right? > > tp> I suppose the same sort of question goes to the CBDTPA, and what impact it > tp> has on governmental use of "cp" "cat" and other utilities. > > tp> Thanks, > tp> Tom I was at the hearing this morning and found the presentation of the first amendment and fair use arguments especially forceful; maybe I'm predisposed to believe them, however. There was some interesting discussion about the fact that not all circumvention is for the purpose of copyright infringement. The government argued that Congress knew this and still decided to prohibit all circumvention because this would help reduce the amount of infringement. Mr. Burton suggested that Congress did not intend to do that, and quoted part of the legislative history, also pointing out that the DMCA (if interpreted to ban _all_ circumvention) would be unique in Federal criminal law by completely omitting any kind of "criminal intent" requirement for contributory liability. (He claimed that all other Federal criminal statutes which hold one party responsible for another party's actions include some requirement along the lines of proving that the accused party _intended to facilitate_ a crime.) The government's silliest moments were claiming that practically all uses of e-books are not fair uses, because they involve copying or modifying a copyrighted work (which are exclusive rights of a copyright holder). They were led to such extremes as claiming that moving a book from one computer to another _is an infringement of copyright_. (Also, they said that the DMCA didn't apply to public domain works, but avoided the question of whether it's a problem if the DMCA bans tools you need in order to _access_ a public domain work.) There was a little discussion of the idea that some people need to circumvent technological restrictions in order to make non-infringing uses. Blind readers were mentioned, for example. Judge Whyte took both sides seriously and asked intelligent questions. -- Seth David Schoen | Reading is a right, not a feature! http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | -- Kathryn Myronuk http://vitanuova.loyalty.org/ | From tompoe at renonevada.net Mon Apr 1 20:38:59 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:09:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: Elcomsoft hearing, April 1 In-Reply-To: <20020402034417.GO31363@zork.net> References: <8432473044.20020401152657@elcomsoft.com> <4845605579.20020401190548@elcomsoft.com> <20020402034417.GO31363@zork.net> Message-ID: <02040120385902.01238@aether> On Monday 01 April 2002 19:44, Seth David Schoen wrote: > Alex Katalov writes: > > Hi Tom, > > > > Unfortunately, my English is not so good to describe all what was > > there, but I hope that Seth will help me! > > > > I can say only that total discussion was not too long, and the time > > was limited - it seems that judge had learn most from the previously > > filed motions (you can see them at > > http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Elcomsoft/) and today he wants only to > > get an additional comments and clear some small details. > > > > tp> Hi, Alex: Has there been any discussion that you're aware of that > > focuses on tp> what happens with this DMCA law, in terms of governmental > > agencies needing to tp> use your products to "backup" technical ebooks? > > For universities that need tp> your products to "backup" research ebooks? > > For libraries that need your tp> products to "backup" their library > > inventories? The assumption is, that tp> Adobe intends to move down the > > road, and have everything on its eBooks, thus tp> making much money and > > profits, right? > > > > tp> I suppose the same sort of question goes to the CBDTPA, and what > > impact it tp> has on governmental use of "cp" "cat" and other utilities. > > > > tp> Thanks, > > tp> Tom > > I was at the hearing this morning and found the presentation of the > first amendment and fair use arguments especially forceful; maybe I'm > predisposed to believe them, however. > > There was some interesting discussion about the fact that not all > circumvention is for the purpose of copyright infringement. The > government argued that Congress knew this and still decided to > prohibit all circumvention because this would help reduce the amount > of infringement. > > Mr. Burton suggested that Congress did not intend to do that, and > quoted part of the legislative history, also pointing out that the > DMCA (if interpreted to ban _all_ circumvention) would be unique in > Federal criminal law by completely omitting any kind of "criminal > intent" requirement for contributory liability. (He claimed that all > other Federal criminal statutes which hold one party responsible for > another party's actions include some requirement along the lines of > proving that the accused party _intended to facilitate_ a crime.) > > The government's silliest moments were claiming that practically all > uses of e-books are not fair uses, because they involve copying or > modifying a copyrighted work (which are exclusive rights of a > copyright holder). They were led to such extremes as claiming that > moving a book from one computer to another _is an infringement of > copyright_. (Also, they said that the DMCA didn't apply to public > domain works, but avoided the question of whether it's a problem if > the DMCA bans tools you need in order to _access_ a public domain > work.) > > There was a little discussion of the idea that some people need to > circumvent technological restrictions in order to make non-infringing > uses. Blind readers were mentioned, for example. > > Judge Whyte took both sides seriously and asked intelligent questions. Hi: Well, see, that's bothersome. The Public Domain works are seemingly left out of the equation. I know, the CTEA has pretty much eliminated that little problem for the foreseeable next 100000000 years. And the ASCAP and BMI have this nifty little game of "arrangements" [they hold some 40 versions of "Row, Row, Row Your Boat", not to mention all of the Classical music"], but there is this thing called CopyLeft, GPL, and we're working on creating a model that can "seed" a new beginning for musical works in coming years, with such projects as Studio For Recording, Inc., and there needs to be a way for the general public to engage. Surely there will be accommodation for government, corporate, and academic access to information "copying", which this law apparently doesn't consider. Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ From akatalov at elcomsoft.com Tue Apr 2 20:27:59 2002 From: akatalov at elcomsoft.com (Alex Katalov) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:09:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Judge Won't Dismiss Copyright Case Message-ID: <12670958583.20020402202759@elcomsoft.com> Attorneys for Russian software company lose first motion in their challenge of the DMCA. http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,92484,00.asp -- Best regards, Alex mailto:akatalov@elcomsoft.com From crism at maden.org Thu Apr 4 17:32:17 2002 From: crism at maden.org (Christopher R. Maden) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:09:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe's status Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020404173036.04e76ec0@mail.maden.org> Are they still co?perating with the Department of Justice's prosecution? I've been approached by an Adobe recruiter, and I want to make sure I have all my facts straight before I shoot my mouth off. Thanks in advance, crism -- Christopher R. Maden, Principal Consultant, crism consulting DTDs/schemas - conversion - ebooks - publishing - Web - B2B - training PGP Fingerprint: BBA6 4085 DED0 E176 D6D4 5DFC AC52 F825 AFEC 58DA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20020404/cfdb2edd/attachment.pgp From crawford at goingware.com Thu Apr 4 19:24:48 2002 From: crawford at goingware.com (Michael D. Crawford) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:09:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Adobe's status Message-ID: <3CAD1900.8080809@goingware.com> Crism, You might want to refer the adobe recruiter to my page here, if you are agreeable to what I have to say: http://goingware.com/freedmitry/ I had just applied to Adobe when Dmitry was arrested, and got an initial positive response. I broke off the discussion by sending the letter on the above page to the Adobe HR person. Adobe never removed me from their resume database, though. I get regular updates on openings that Adobe suggests I apply to. Does anyone know whether anyone at Adobe resigned over this? I've resigned from other companies over considerably less offensive corporate acts than Adobe's. Mike -- Michael D. Crawford GoingWare Inc. - Expert Software Development and Consulting http://www.goingware.com/ crawford@goingware.com Tilting at Windmills for a Better Tomorrow. From mickeym at mindspring.com Tue Apr 16 18:12:33 2002 From: mickeym at mindspring.com (mickey) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:09:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Was there a hearing today? Message-ID: <3CBCCC01.40007@mindspring.com> "Judge Ronald M. Whyte of Federal District Court in Northern California did not issue a decision on the motions to dismiss the case. He could issue a written decision before the next hearing, scheduled for April 15, or announce his decision in court that day, lawyers said." Did the hearing take place? mickeym From kfoss at planetpdf.com Mon Apr 15 18:29:31 2002 From: kfoss at planetpdf.com (Kurt Foss) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:09:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Was there a hearing today? In-Reply-To: <3CBCCC01.40007@mindspring.com> References: <3CBCCC01.40007@mindspring.com> Message-ID: No ruling yet in case against Russian software firm http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2002/04/15/financial1416EDT0089.DTL > "Judge Ronald M. Whyte of Federal District Court in Northern >California did not issue a decision on the motions to dismiss the >case. He could issue a written decision before the next hearing, >scheduled for April 15, or announce his decision in court that day, >lawyers said." > > >Did the hearing take place? >mickeym > > >_______________________________________________ >free-sklyarov mailing list >free-sklyarov@zork.net >http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov -- ____________________ Kurt Foss - Editor _______________________ Planet PDF - A world of Acrobat/PDF news, tips, tools and forums | mailto:kfoss@planetpdf.com | http://www.planetpdf.com | | http://www.epublishstore.com | http://forum.planetpdf.com | BinaryThing - The ePublishing Network From proclus at mac.com Fri Apr 19 09:58:52 2002 From: proclus at mac.com (proclus@mac.com) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:09:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] privacy bills In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200204191659.g3JGwxZ12978@astrolabei> Just in case you missed it, the author of the SSSCA has introduced a privacy bill. Is anyone else worried that upcoming privacy legislation will fix things so that only wealthy corporations can "trade" personal information? http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/04/19/1551240 Sorry, I know this is a little off-topic. Please feel free to direct me to a more appropriate forum off-list. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 229 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20020419/83c1769e/attachment.pgp From tompoe at renonevada.net Fri Apr 19 11:03:53 2002 From: tompoe at renonevada.net (tom poe) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:09:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] privacy bills In-Reply-To: <200204191659.g3JGwxZ12978@astrolabei> References: <200204191659.g3JGwxZ12978@astrolabei> Message-ID: <02041911035301.16531@aether> On Friday 19 April 2002 09:58, proclus@mac.com wrote: > > Just in case you missed it, the author of the SSSCA has introduced a > privacy bill. Is anyone else worried that upcoming privacy > legislation will fix things so that only wealthy corporations can > "trade" personal information? > > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/04/19/1551240 > > Sorry, I know this is a little off-topic. Please feel free to direct > me to a more appropriate forum off-list. > > Regards, > proclus > http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ Hi: Are you factoring in our U.S. Government as a "wealthy corporation"? Thanks, Tom http://www.studioforrecording.org/ http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/ http://renotahoe.pm.org/ ---------------------------------------- Content-Type: APPLICATION/pgp-signature; name="Attachment: 1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: ---------------------------------------- From dwornock at comcast.net Sat Apr 20 06:57:06 2002 From: dwornock at comcast.net (D Wornock) Date: Fri Jul 8 22:09:48 2005 Subject: [free-sklyarov] Re: free-sklyarov digest, Vol 1 #363 - 2 msgs References: Message-ID: <000c01c1e873$41e7adf0$36243344@cc653035a> Fri, 19 Apr 2002, proclus@mac.com wrote in part: "Just in case you missed it, the author of the SSSCA has introduced a privacy bill. Is anyone else worried that upcoming privacy legislation will fix things so that only wealthy corporations can "trade" personal information? "http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/04/19/1551240" What I noticed from the article is that when Hollings proposes legislation that the public can be used against corporations, his proposals only allows the public to sue the corporation. However, when Hollings proposes legislation for the benefit of corporations he proposals include criminal penalties with jail time. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://frotz.zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/attachments/20020420/985fdcb0/attachment.html