WARNING: Flames follow Re: [free-sklyarov] Newsweek Article (8/20 Issue)

[Bob La Quey]

This message is intended for the free-sklyarov list. 

At 11:58 PM 8/15/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Don't read this if you don't need any flames today. I too was having
>a good day...
>
><MASSIVE FLAME>
>
>It's bad manners to send private emails to the list. I did by mistake, I 
>hope you did too..

Actually, I sent mail to both you and the list. I know exactly what I did.
Believe if I meant to exhibit "bad manners" I would be much more explicit. 

>Actually, I don't really care...

OK. If you don't really care, why are you responding publically? 

I am responding because I do care. I care deeply. Despite your silly
rhetoric I think you do as well. 

>You know what? You're totally right. I'm not going to waste my time making
>these websites anymore. I'm not going to imagine we are having any impact
>on the HUGE corporations. I'm not going to rally myself and the troops. I'm not
>going to think one person can make a change. I'm not going to think
>Hilter took over and killed many people even though it had to start
>with someone. I'm not going to think Linus actually created a new
>tool that many, many people use now.

Where did I say that you were not having any impact on HUGE corpprations. 
All I did was to ask for you to be realistic in your assessment of that 
impact. I am sorry if that hurts. We are in a battle. I am on your side. 
Truth sometimes hurts. Sorry, but I am not responsible for reality.  

I just dont see that: 

>I can smell the smoldering remains of these over
>protective, under encrypted, stomping Rights companies now...

the "smoldering remains" you talk about. I truly wish I did. But I do not. 

All of us need to realize that this is a fight against great odds. It can
be won, but it does no good to pretend it is a walk in the park. Or that
Adobe, is a "smoldering remain" despite our common hopes.  

>No, even though you said EFF was ineffectual and now say they made 
>their best effort, 


I said that. It is true. I do believe the EFF made their best effort. That is
profoundly different from being effective. Saddly. 99-0 for DMCA. 

Was the EFF EFFective? 

Did they give this their best EFFort? 

>there really is no reason to fight. 

I did not say that. I said the opposite. I said, plan to fight for the 
rest of your life. Does this bother you? Why? 

Do you really need assured and quick victory to fight? 

Why? 

I say, fight these bastards at every turn, every way, for as long as it takes!  

>I'll 
>just make a song and that will suffice. If people hear a good
>Anti-DMCA song they will get out of this mess. 

No. I said that MP3 could turn out to be more effective than your website.
Big difference. Of course I could be quite wrong. Time will tell. 
 
BTW, I have some minor problem with this notion of "your"
web site, but I'll not dwell on it. Perhaps you will explain it to me.

>You're right. Even though PDF is really the only thing you can use, expecting
>the masses to cut back is insane. Especially cutting back while we've been
>at this for 3 weeks.

No, some of us have been at "this" for 30 years. You may have been at "it" 
for 3 weeks. That is part of the point. Plan for a long battle. 

Don't ever give up, even if the "old farts" irritate you :) 

>I'm also not going to imagine that your defeatist attitude actually
>hurts morale or participation. We should all feel as beaten back 
>and attempt to prove that with numbers and fractions and as your 
>link shows, "the decline of the internet." Making a difference to even 
>just one person has no meaning as you have shown. 
>No, I lose, you lose, we all lose. 

No, you just need to be a whole lot tougher and realize just how 
serious this battle is. Don't depend on a continuous stream of
victories to build your determination to fight. Fight on even if
you lose repeatedly. Enjoy victories, plan to win, but don't depend
on it. Fight on. This is the opposite of a defeatist attitude. 

>But wait, Dmitry is just one person. I am just one person. The other
>people on this list are just one persons. Geez, a bunch of one
>persons can cause a lot of fuss.

And a lot more people must in the end be brought along. You seem to
me (my view only, I don't speak for this list, do you?) to be terribly 
defensive. 

Why? 

>I hope you don't send other people off-list emails like this. Unlike me they
>might actually read them 

Does this ambiguous sentence mean you did not read my email but just 
responded. I doubt that. Probably you read the mail. 

Or do you think people should not read mail that might contain arguments
they disagree with? 

>and think you have a point or two...

I have made several points or you would not be responding. 

>I hope you aren't some Microsoft Morale manipulation expert. I'm starting
>to think that from your other emails:
>http://zork.net/pipermail/free-sklyarov/2001-August/003010.html

No, but I do hope others on this list will take a look at the URL you 
have provided and realize how important these stuggles are. And how
old they are. Dmitry is important but he is not in the least unique. 

This battle goes back to the caves our species emerged from. 

>If you would like to continue this enlightening discussion, you
>should probably just send me email directly. I don't think the 
>others want to hear it.

Well I think "the others" should judge for themselves. I certainly will 
not begin to judge for them, as apparently you wish to do.  Again, 

Why? 

Frankly, I must admit that I do not really understand why you appear to 
be so upset. All I have said is that, not much has yet been accomplished,
that there remains a lot to do, and that we should look forward to a long
battle rather than a quick victory. 

Do you really disagree with that prognosis? 

Look Jon O. my bottom line is simple. I have no particular need to conduct 
a public debate with you that detracts progress of any movement that
that forwards the cause of human freedom. I just hope that people will 
see that this is a battle that is best viewed as part of a lifetime 
committment to the struggle for humman freedom, and is not dependant 
upon the immediate outcome of some skirmish that in the grander scheme 
of things may or may not be seen as of profound importance.

That said, I do think Dmitry's case is of profound importance and that 
we agree upon far more than we disagree upon.  

Regards,


Bob La Quey