[free-sklyarov] Copyright Contradictions

Fri Aug 9 11:13:16 PDT 2002

Hi, Ruben: Layoff EFF.  I used EFF because they are our saviors. Got a 
legal problem, go to EFF. That's their role. And, if you had read what I 
had to say, you would realize that EFF doesn't do the whole shebang, so 
the need to establish a web site that does, is a nice idea.  It's also 
possible there is already a site that watches a broad range of events, 
and has the send email to your representative features.  Do they track 
what we've responded to, like EFF does?  Who knows?! The idea had 
nothing to do with EFF, specifically. I used them as an example in the 
Subject Line, because they were the first acronym to come to mind.

We can use your NYFU just as easily. Makes no difference, what, as long 
as it is recognizable to alot of mail lists, Users'Groups, web sites 
like Declan's, etc.

There's another thought that should be raised, since we all agree so far 
that both preaching to the choir and reaching out to the Internet 
Community needs to be done. The USA PATRIOTS' ACT!  An impenetrable 
name, eh?  Rename the Linux Army to the PATRIOTS' ARMY, and ride the 
wave. Just a thought.
Thanks,
Tom

Ruben I Safir wrote:
- - -snip - - -
> 
> But I'm definetely telling everyone that NY Fair Use is not going to be taking
> leads or an action from EFF just because they ran their 43rd alert this week.
> 
> 
> Let EFF do what it wants to do.  But we have our own leadership and CLEAR
> vision of what we want to do.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben
> 
> On 2002.08.09 02:09 proclus at gnu-darwin.org wrote:
> 
>>Ruben's point is important.  A single message to each member group
>>would be sufficient (then maybe nyfairuse will join ;-), and they can
>>discuss a single message among themselves in a manner that is
>>appropriate for their own group.
>>
>>There should be an opt-in mechanism for people who wish to become more
>>involved in any particular action.  I liked the way that Stakeholders
>>7/17 "sucked you in", when you replied to the alert.  That gets you
>>right into it, like free-skyarov was in the first days.
>>
>>Regards,
>>proclus
>>http://www.gnu-darwin.org/
>>
>>
>>On  9 Aug, Ruben I Safir wrote:
>>
>>>defenitly count out NY Fair Use.  The noise level is alreay too high.
>>>
>>>
>>>>I think Jay has a point about the SPAM. On the other hand, I don't think 
>>>>it serves much purpose if a singular message is posted on each list, and 
>>>>that's the end of it. I think the need to post and cross-post, and make 
>>>>sure people recognize something is happening is necessary.
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>Tom Poe
>>>>Open Studios
>>>>Reno, NV
>>>>
>>>>proclus at gnu-darwin.org wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>How about "Freedom Axis"?  I like the general idea to encompass groups
>>>>>who value free software, open standards, fair use, cryptography,
>>>>> privacy, etc. Speaking for myself, I already forward important alerts
>>>>>to the lists that I administrate, about 300 subscribers, plus
>>>>>free-skyarov sometimes.  I don't consider it spam, because the
>>>>>subscribers have an expressed interest.  I'm sure that others are doing
>>>>>likewise.
>>>>>
>>>>>How is this proposal different from what we are doing already?  EFF
>>>>>action alerts, Politech, etc?  How to do we avoid burnout and too much
>>>>>email?
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>proclus
>>>>>http://www.gnu-darwin.org/
>>>>>
>>>>>On  9 Aug, Jay Sulzberger wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, tompoe at renonevada.net wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hi: Let's see what you folks think about the following:
>>>>>>>A web site that lists Users'Groups [all kinds, flavors, etc.]
>>>>>>>A web site that lists web sites [supporters]
>>>>>>>A web site that lists individuals [supporters]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The name of the web site: The Linux Army
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This is close to something I have been considering.  It is an important
>>>>>>thing to do.  We should have been at today's FCC meeting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>More than a simple alert system is needed.  Organization, planning,
>>>>>>discipline, and experience will help us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tom, I love your stuff and this idea. but I have one objection:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The name is wrong.  Not "Linux", and not even "GNU/Linux".  Perhaps not
>>>>>>even "Free Software".  Right now I do not have a name I like, but I often
>>>>>>use the phrase "owners and makers".  "stakeholders" is also a good word.
>>>>>>The Englobulators plots', if successful, will trammel us as "consumers", but
>>>>>>they will do worse to us as owners and makers: they will end our rights to
>>>>>>own and make and distribute our own stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Also we need not allow any SPAM whatsoever.  We can quickly distribute
>>>>>>information to many centers without allowing SPAM.  We may not even need so
>>>>>>much bandwidth that many distribution points are required.  Perhaps a
>>>>>>mailing list with an archive which we allow to be mirrored, subject, of
>>>>>>course, to our strict license, and partly secured by standard cryptographic
>>>>>>means ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>oo--JS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On this page, those who agree to the following are listed:
>>>>>>>1] Agree to open their sites to SPAM and cross-posting messages for TAKE
>>>>>>>ACTION events
>>>>>>>2] All messages with EFF will be posted for list members of Users'
>>>>>>>Groups, web sites and individuals [upon moderator approval]
>>>>>>>3] All members of The Linux Army will set up a folder on their mail
>>>>>>>clients to receive all messages with EFF in the Subject Line, so as not
>>>>>>>to have an undue amount of cross-posting and SPAM messages in their Inboxes.
>>>>>>>4] Now, whenever there are ACTIONS TO TAKE, the hundreds of thousands of
>>>>>>>members of The Linux Army are alerted, and can, in most cases, with just
>>>>>>>three clicks, "Do Their Duty".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Slashdot is good for what it does, and The Linux Army, ugly as the SPAM
>>>>>>>aspect is, needs to be alerted to TAKE ACTION when needed. The only way
>>>>>>>to do that is to agree to a SPAM arrangement.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>There's a sample page at:
>>>>>>>http://www.studioforrecording.org/linuxarmy.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If the idea is viable, then the next step is to decide who best to host
>>>>>>>the site?
>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>Tom Poe
>>>>>>>Open Studios
>>>>>>>Reno, NV
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Seth Johnson wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Seth Finkelstein wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>      Well, what works? I must admit I've not had a
>>>>>>>>>great deal of success myself. Maybe there's nothing we
>>>>>>>>>can do. I don't claim to be an expert at such
>>>>>>>>>convincing. I'm only sharing empirical problems I've
>>>>>>>>>encountered from my own experiences in trying to
>>>>>>>>>convince skeptical people. If the world is divided into
>>>>>>>>>the unconvertable, and the choir singing
>>>>>>>>>they're-coming-to-take-us-away, that's disheartening.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Actually, organizing is best done by pitching to the choir.
>>>>>>>>The key is to show those who agree with you something in
>>>>>>>>motion, and thereby find the ones who are looking for
>>>>>>>>something real to be a part of.  That's how you recruit the
>>>>>>>>leaders and build a movement.  Organizers "call to emulate."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It isn't about spin or consciousness-raising, which the
>>>>>>>>"preaching to the choir" line implies, whenever you hear it
>>>>>>>>brought against you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Seth Johnson
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>http://www.studioforrecording.org/
>>>>>>>http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/
>>>>>>>http://www.studioforrecording.org/mt/Pubdomain_Bread/
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>Please go to EFF.org page at http://www.eff.org
>>>>>>>and register for the TAKE ACTION page.
>>>>>>>If you can donate $5, that'll help, too
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>free-sklyarov mailing list
>>>>>>>free-sklyarov at zork.net
>>>>>>>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>free-sklyarov mailing list
>>>>>>free-sklyarov at zork.net
>>>>>>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-- 
>>>>http://www.studioforrecording.org/
>>>>http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/
>>>>http://www.studioforrecording.org/mt/Pubdomain_Bread/
>>>>--
>>>>Please go to EFF.org page at http://www.eff.org
>>>>and register for the TAKE ACTION page.
>>>>If you can donate $5, that'll help, too
>>>>--
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>free-sklyarov mailing list
>>>>free-sklyarov at zork.net
>>>>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov
>>>>
>>>
>>-- 
>>Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/
>>-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
>>Version: 3.1
>>GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBOULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O
>>M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++
>>h--- r+++ y++++
>>------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>>
>>
>>
> 

-- 
http://www.studioforrecording.org/
http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/
http://www.studioforrecording.org/mt/Pubdomain_Bread/
--
Please go to EFF.org page at http://www.eff.org
and register for the TAKE ACTION page.
If you can donate $5, that'll help, too
--