[free-sklyarov] Copyright Contradictions

Fri Aug 9 00:12:21 PDT 2002

NY Fair USe has a very specific program it is trying implement
with the goal of obtaining real long term political results, which
we hope in the end, will raise the conciousness of the general public.

We are focused on Politcal Action through legistlation and the proper
use of lexicon:  We are the Stake Holders:  DRM is Theft.

For our purpose, we don't have either ability, funding or inclination
to extend this by reacting to everything that haapens in the areana of
digital rights in Washington.

I want NY Fair Use to build a string of victories, and to raise it's profile,
and we're not there yet.

Other groups also have good things they want to do.  But NY Fair Use
doesn't have to be involved in every one of them.  Nor do we have to agree with
everyone.  We have a reletively regmented organization.  Frankly my biggest concern 
is the coming Novemenr Elections.

Your CONGRESS PEOPLE ARE HOME NOW.  Go find them and challenge them in a town hall
meeting on these issues.

If someone wishes to create an organization of group leaders, I'd be more
inclined to participate in that.

But I'm definetely telling everyone that NY Fair Use is not going to be taking
leads or an action from EFF just because they ran their 43rd alert this week.

Let EFF do what it wants to do.  But we have our own leadership and CLEAR
vision of what we want to do.

Thanks

Ruben

On 2002.08.09 02:09 proclus at gnu-darwin.org wrote:
> 
> Ruben's point is important.  A single message to each member group
> would be sufficient (then maybe nyfairuse will join ;-), and they can
> discuss a single message among themselves in a manner that is
> appropriate for their own group.
> 
> There should be an opt-in mechanism for people who wish to become more
> involved in any particular action.  I liked the way that Stakeholders
> 7/17 "sucked you in", when you replied to the alert.  That gets you
> right into it, like free-skyarov was in the first days.
> 
> Regards,
> proclus
> http://www.gnu-darwin.org/
> 
> 
> On  9 Aug, Ruben I Safir wrote:
> > defenitly count out NY Fair Use.  The noise level is alreay too high.
> > 
> >> I think Jay has a point about the SPAM. On the other hand, I don't think 
> >> it serves much purpose if a singular message is posted on each list, and 
> >> that's the end of it. I think the need to post and cross-post, and make 
> >> sure people recognize something is happening is necessary.
> >> Thanks,
> >> Tom Poe
> >> Open Studios
> >> Reno, NV
> >> 
> >> proclus at gnu-darwin.org wrote:
> >> > How about "Freedom Axis"?  I like the general idea to encompass groups
> >> > who value free software, open standards, fair use, cryptography,
> >> >  privacy, etc. Speaking for myself, I already forward important alerts
> >> > to the lists that I administrate, about 300 subscribers, plus
> >> > free-skyarov sometimes.  I don't consider it spam, because the
> >> > subscribers have an expressed interest.  I'm sure that others are doing
> >> > likewise.
> >> > 
> >> > How is this proposal different from what we are doing already?  EFF
> >> > action alerts, Politech, etc?  How to do we avoid burnout and too much
> >> > email?
> >> > 
> >> > Regards,
> >> > proclus
> >> > http://www.gnu-darwin.org/
> >> > 
> >> > On  9 Aug, Jay Sulzberger wrote:
> >> > 
> >> >>
> >> >>On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, tompoe at renonevada.net wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>>Hi: Let's see what you folks think about the following:
> >> >>>A web site that lists Users'Groups [all kinds, flavors, etc.]
> >> >>>A web site that lists web sites [supporters]
> >> >>>A web site that lists individuals [supporters]
> >> >>>
> >> >>>The name of the web site: The Linux Army
> >> >>
> >> >>This is close to something I have been considering.  It is an important
> >> >>thing to do.  We should have been at today's FCC meeting.
> >> >>
> >> >>More than a simple alert system is needed.  Organization, planning,
> >> >>discipline, and experience will help us.
> >> >>
> >> >>Tom, I love your stuff and this idea. but I have one objection:
> >> >>
> >> >>The name is wrong.  Not "Linux", and not even "GNU/Linux".  Perhaps not
> >> >>even "Free Software".  Right now I do not have a name I like, but I often
> >> >>use the phrase "owners and makers".  "stakeholders" is also a good word.
> >> >>The Englobulators plots', if successful, will trammel us as "consumers", but
> >> >>they will do worse to us as owners and makers: they will end our rights to
> >> >>own and make and distribute our own stuff.
> >> >>
> >> >>Also we need not allow any SPAM whatsoever.  We can quickly distribute
> >> >>information to many centers without allowing SPAM.  We may not even need so
> >> >>much bandwidth that many distribution points are required.  Perhaps a
> >> >>mailing list with an archive which we allow to be mirrored, subject, of
> >> >>course, to our strict license, and partly secured by standard cryptographic
> >> >>means ;)
> >> >>
> >> >>oo--JS.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>>On this page, those who agree to the following are listed:
> >> >>>1] Agree to open their sites to SPAM and cross-posting messages for TAKE
> >> >>>ACTION events
> >> >>>2] All messages with EFF will be posted for list members of Users'
> >> >>>Groups, web sites and individuals [upon moderator approval]
> >> >>>3] All members of The Linux Army will set up a folder on their mail
> >> >>>clients to receive all messages with EFF in the Subject Line, so as not
> >> >>>to have an undue amount of cross-posting and SPAM messages in their Inboxes.
> >> >>>4] Now, whenever there are ACTIONS TO TAKE, the hundreds of thousands of
> >> >>>members of The Linux Army are alerted, and can, in most cases, with just
> >> >>>three clicks, "Do Their Duty".
> >> >>>
> >> >>>Slashdot is good for what it does, and The Linux Army, ugly as the SPAM
> >> >>>aspect is, needs to be alerted to TAKE ACTION when needed. The only way
> >> >>>to do that is to agree to a SPAM arrangement.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>There's a sample page at:
> >> >>>http://www.studioforrecording.org/linuxarmy.html
> >> >>>
> >> >>>If the idea is viable, then the next step is to decide who best to host
> >> >>>the site?
> >> >>>Thanks,
> >> >>>Tom Poe
> >> >>>Open Studios
> >> >>>Reno, NV
> >> >>>
> >> >>>Seth Johnson wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>Seth Finkelstein wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>>       Well, what works? I must admit I've not had a
> >> >>>>>great deal of success myself. Maybe there's nothing we
> >> >>>>>can do. I don't claim to be an expert at such
> >> >>>>>convincing. I'm only sharing empirical problems I've
> >> >>>>>encountered from my own experiences in trying to
> >> >>>>>convince skeptical people. If the world is divided into
> >> >>>>>the unconvertable, and the choir singing
> >> >>>>>they're-coming-to-take-us-away, that's disheartening.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>Actually, organizing is best done by pitching to the choir.
> >> >>>>The key is to show those who agree with you something in
> >> >>>>motion, and thereby find the ones who are looking for
> >> >>>>something real to be a part of.  That's how you recruit the
> >> >>>>leaders and build a movement.  Organizers "call to emulate."
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>It isn't about spin or consciousness-raising, which the
> >> >>>>"preaching to the choir" line implies, whenever you hear it
> >> >>>>brought against you.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>Seth Johnson
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>--
> >> >>>http://www.studioforrecording.org/
> >> >>>http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/
> >> >>>http://www.studioforrecording.org/mt/Pubdomain_Bread/
> >> >>>--
> >> >>>Please go to EFF.org page at http://www.eff.org
> >> >>>and register for the TAKE ACTION page.
> >> >>>If you can donate $5, that'll help, too
> >> >>>--
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>_______________________________________________
> >> >>>free-sklyarov mailing list
> >> >>>free-sklyarov at zork.net
> >> >>>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>_______________________________________________
> >> >>free-sklyarov mailing list
> >> >>free-sklyarov at zork.net
> >> >>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> http://www.studioforrecording.org/
> >> http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/
> >> http://www.studioforrecording.org/mt/Pubdomain_Bread/
> >> --
> >> Please go to EFF.org page at http://www.eff.org
> >> and register for the TAKE ACTION page.
> >> If you can donate $5, that'll help, too
> >> --
> >> 
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> free-sklyarov mailing list
> >> free-sklyarov at zork.net
> >> http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov
> >> 
> 
> -- 
> Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/
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