[free-sklyarov] Copyright Contradictions
Ruben Safir
ruben at mrbrklyn.com
Fri Aug 9 15:07:47 PDT 2002
On Fri, Aug 09, 2002 at 11:13:16AM -0700, tompoe at renonevada.net wrote:
> Hi, Ruben: Layoff EFF. I used EFF because they are our saviors. Got a
> legal problem, go to EFF. That's their role.
EFFis a legal defense. That is corect and that is my point Tom.
Read the message again. Nobody is attacking EFF, but I disagree with much of their
advocacy and think we should leave EFF to do what it does best.
Ruben
And, if you had read what I
> had to say, you would realize that EFF doesn't do the whole shebang, so
> the need to establish a web site that does, is a nice idea. It's also
> possible there is already a site that watches a broad range of events,
> and has the send email to your representative features. Do they track
> what we've responded to, like EFF does? Who knows?! The idea had
> nothing to do with EFF, specifically. I used them as an example in the
> Subject Line, because they were the first acronym to come to mind.
>
> We can use your NYFU just as easily. Makes no difference, what, as long
> as it is recognizable to alot of mail lists, Users'Groups, web sites
> like Declan's, etc.
>
> There's another thought that should be raised, since we all agree so far
> that both preaching to the choir and reaching out to the Internet
> Community needs to be done. The USA PATRIOTS' ACT! An impenetrable
> name, eh? Rename the Linux Army to the PATRIOTS' ARMY, and ride the
> wave. Just a thought.
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
> Ruben I Safir wrote:
> - - -snip - - -
> >
> >But I'm definetely telling everyone that NY Fair Use is not going to be
> >taking
> >leads or an action from EFF just because they ran their 43rd alert this
> >week.
> >
> >
> >Let EFF do what it wants to do. But we have our own leadership and CLEAR
> >vision of what we want to do.
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >Ruben
> >
> >On 2002.08.09 02:09 proclus at gnu-darwin.org wrote:
> >
> >>Ruben's point is important. A single message to each member group
> >>would be sufficient (then maybe nyfairuse will join ;-), and they can
> >>discuss a single message among themselves in a manner that is
> >>appropriate for their own group.
> >>
> >>There should be an opt-in mechanism for people who wish to become more
> >>involved in any particular action. I liked the way that Stakeholders
> >>7/17 "sucked you in", when you replied to the alert. That gets you
> >>right into it, like free-skyarov was in the first days.
> >>
> >>Regards,
> >>proclus
> >>http://www.gnu-darwin.org/
> >>
> >>
> >>On 9 Aug, Ruben I Safir wrote:
> >>
> >>>defenitly count out NY Fair Use. The noise level is alreay too high.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I think Jay has a point about the SPAM. On the other hand, I don't
> >>>>think it serves much purpose if a singular message is posted on each
> >>>>list, and that's the end of it. I think the need to post and
> >>>>cross-post, and make sure people recognize something is happening is
> >>>>necessary.
> >>>>Thanks,
> >>>>Tom Poe
> >>>>Open Studios
> >>>>Reno, NV
> >>>>
> >>>>proclus at gnu-darwin.org wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>How about "Freedom Axis"? I like the general idea to encompass groups
> >>>>>who value free software, open standards, fair use, cryptography,
> >>>>>privacy, etc. Speaking for myself, I already forward important alerts
> >>>>>to the lists that I administrate, about 300 subscribers, plus
> >>>>>free-skyarov sometimes. I don't consider it spam, because the
> >>>>>subscribers have an expressed interest. I'm sure that others are doing
> >>>>>likewise.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>How is this proposal different from what we are doing already? EFF
> >>>>>action alerts, Politech, etc? How to do we avoid burnout and too much
> >>>>>email?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Regards,
> >>>>>proclus
> >>>>>http://www.gnu-darwin.org/
> >>>>>
> >>>>>On 9 Aug, Jay Sulzberger wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, tompoe at renonevada.net wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Hi: Let's see what you folks think about the following:
> >>>>>>>A web site that lists Users'Groups [all kinds, flavors, etc.]
> >>>>>>>A web site that lists web sites [supporters]
> >>>>>>>A web site that lists individuals [supporters]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>The name of the web site: The Linux Army
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>This is close to something I have been considering. It is an
> >>>>>>important
> >>>>>>thing to do. We should have been at today's FCC meeting.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>More than a simple alert system is needed. Organization, planning,
> >>>>>>discipline, and experience will help us.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Tom, I love your stuff and this idea. but I have one objection:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The name is wrong. Not "Linux", and not even "GNU/Linux". Perhaps
> >>>>>>not
> >>>>>>even "Free Software". Right now I do not have a name I like, but I
> >>>>>>often
> >>>>>>use the phrase "owners and makers". "stakeholders" is also a good
> >>>>>>word.
> >>>>>>The Englobulators plots', if successful, will trammel us as
> >>>>>>"consumers", but
> >>>>>>they will do worse to us as owners and makers: they will end our
> >>>>>>rights to
> >>>>>>own and make and distribute our own stuff.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Also we need not allow any SPAM whatsoever. We can quickly distribute
> >>>>>>information to many centers without allowing SPAM. We may not even
> >>>>>>need so
> >>>>>>much bandwidth that many distribution points are required. Perhaps a
> >>>>>>mailing list with an archive which we allow to be mirrored, subject,
> >>>>>>of
> >>>>>>course, to our strict license, and partly secured by standard
> >>>>>>cryptographic
> >>>>>>means ;)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>oo--JS.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>On this page, those who agree to the following are listed:
> >>>>>>>1] Agree to open their sites to SPAM and cross-posting messages for
> >>>>>>>TAKE
> >>>>>>>ACTION events
> >>>>>>>2] All messages with EFF will be posted for list members of Users'
> >>>>>>>Groups, web sites and individuals [upon moderator approval]
> >>>>>>>3] All members of The Linux Army will set up a folder on their mail
> >>>>>>>clients to receive all messages with EFF in the Subject Line, so as
> >>>>>>>not
> >>>>>>>to have an undue amount of cross-posting and SPAM messages in their
> >>>>>>>Inboxes.
> >>>>>>>4] Now, whenever there are ACTIONS TO TAKE, the hundreds of
> >>>>>>>thousands of
> >>>>>>>members of The Linux Army are alerted, and can, in most cases, with
> >>>>>>>just
> >>>>>>>three clicks, "Do Their Duty".
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Slashdot is good for what it does, and The Linux Army, ugly as the
> >>>>>>>SPAM
> >>>>>>>aspect is, needs to be alerted to TAKE ACTION when needed. The only
> >>>>>>>way
> >>>>>>>to do that is to agree to a SPAM arrangement.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>There's a sample page at:
> >>>>>>>http://www.studioforrecording.org/linuxarmy.html
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>If the idea is viable, then the next step is to decide who best to
> >>>>>>>host
> >>>>>>>the site?
> >>>>>>>Thanks,
> >>>>>>>Tom Poe
> >>>>>>>Open Studios
> >>>>>>>Reno, NV
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Seth Johnson wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Seth Finkelstein wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Well, what works? I must admit I've not had a
> >>>>>>>>>great deal of success myself. Maybe there's nothing we
> >>>>>>>>>can do. I don't claim to be an expert at such
> >>>>>>>>>convincing. I'm only sharing empirical problems I've
> >>>>>>>>>encountered from my own experiences in trying to
> >>>>>>>>>convince skeptical people. If the world is divided into
> >>>>>>>>>the unconvertable, and the choir singing
> >>>>>>>>>they're-coming-to-take-us-away, that's disheartening.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Actually, organizing is best done by pitching to the choir.
> >>>>>>>>The key is to show those who agree with you something in
> >>>>>>>>motion, and thereby find the ones who are looking for
> >>>>>>>>something real to be a part of. That's how you recruit the
> >>>>>>>>leaders and build a movement. Organizers "call to emulate."
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>It isn't about spin or consciousness-raising, which the
> >>>>>>>>"preaching to the choir" line implies, whenever you hear it
> >>>>>>>>brought against you.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Seth Johnson
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>--
> >>>>>>>http://www.studioforrecording.org/
> >>>>>>>http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/
> >>>>>>>http://www.studioforrecording.org/mt/Pubdomain_Bread/
> >>>>>>>--
> >>>>>>>Please go to EFF.org page at http://www.eff.org
> >>>>>>>and register for the TAKE ACTION page.
> >>>>>>>If you can donate $5, that'll help, too
> >>>>>>>--
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>free-sklyarov mailing list
> >>>>>>>free-sklyarov at zork.net
> >>>>>>>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>>free-sklyarov mailing list
> >>>>>>free-sklyarov at zork.net
> >>>>>>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>http://www.studioforrecording.org/
> >>>>http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/
> >>>>http://www.studioforrecording.org/mt/Pubdomain_Bread/
> >>>>--
> >>>>Please go to EFF.org page at http://www.eff.org
> >>>>and register for the TAKE ACTION page.
> >>>>If you can donate $5, that'll help, too
> >>>>--
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>free-sklyarov mailing list
> >>>>free-sklyarov at zork.net
> >>>>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>--
> >>Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/
> >>-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> http://www.studioforrecording.org/
> http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/
> http://www.studioforrecording.org/mt/Pubdomain_Bread/
> --
> Please go to EFF.org page at http://www.eff.org
> and register for the TAKE ACTION page.
> If you can donate $5, that'll help, too
> --
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> free-sklyarov at zork.net
> http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov
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