[free-sklyarov] Copyright Contradictions
Ruben Safir
ruben at mrbrklyn.com
Fri Aug 9 15:03:07 PDT 2002
In regards to the Geekpac et al
I would refer eveyone to my article on the Linux Journal regarding this
and the idea of lobbying in general.
Ruben
On Fri, Aug 09, 2002 at 03:35:26PM -0400, proclus at gnu-darwin.org wrote:
> On 9 Aug, tompoe at renonevada.net wrote:
> > Do they track
> > what we've responded to, like EFF does? Who knows?! The idea had
> > nothing to do with EFF, specifically. I used them as an example in the
> > Subject Line, because they were the first acronym to come to mind.
>
> I thought of the EFF Action Center alerts, which are few in number,
> well focused, and impactful IMHO. Since signing on with it, I have not
> been flooded with superfluous messages. The Alliance would be like
> this, but organizations could join as a block, and there would be a
> cryptographic lock, so that the content can be verified. That way, if
> you get an alert on your cell phone, you don't go speeding off to a
> non-event ;-}. Verification also provides a fairly reliable mechanism
> for checking that member organizations are on-line and getting the
> alert, how many are opting in, etc.
>
> BTW, does the EFF Action Center have an RSS channel?
>
> The Alliance leadership could consist of member organization list/web
> admins, or others chosen by each individual group. Leadership is
> required to avoid clogging the channel with unwanted messages. If we
> can get this working, then it will be adapted for other kinds of
> activism, so that alerts can be channelled to the correct groups. I
> think that we should get Digital Speech Project on board, if possible.
>
> http://www.digitalspeech.org
>
> How about GeekPAC and and AOTC? FSF? I'm sure that others will have
> suggestions. Is anyone listening? I think that we should fork a list
> for getting this started, and getting more numbers.
>
> > The USA PATRIOTS' ACT! An impenetrable
> > name, eh? Rename the Linux Army to the PATRIOTS' ARMY, and ride the
> > wave. Just a thought.
>
> Patriot, like geek and hacker, is a little loaded. Although it has
> some bandwagoning potential, there is a credibility issue with naming
> yourself a patriot, as it were. I like the names that include Citizens,
> Voters, Activists, etc, which implies political engagement, and counters
> the tenancy to label the public as mere consumers, who are defined as
> non-stakeholders.
>
> Regards,
> proclus
> http://www.gnu-darwin.org/
>
> > Thanks,
> > Tom
> >
> > Ruben I Safir wrote:
> > - - -snip - - -
> >>
> >> But I'm definetely telling everyone that NY Fair Use is not going to be taking
> >> leads or an action from EFF just because they ran their 43rd alert this week.
> >>
> >>
> >> Let EFF do what it wants to do. But we have our own leadership and CLEAR
> >> vision of what we want to do.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Ruben
> >>
> >> On 2002.08.09 02:09 proclus at gnu-darwin.org wrote:
> >>
> >>>Ruben's point is important. A single message to each member group
> >>>would be sufficient (then maybe nyfairuse will join ;-), and they can
> >>>discuss a single message among themselves in a manner that is
> >>>appropriate for their own group.
> >>>
> >>>There should be an opt-in mechanism for people who wish to become more
> >>>involved in any particular action. I liked the way that Stakeholders
> >>>7/17 "sucked you in", when you replied to the alert. That gets you
> >>>right into it, like free-skyarov was in the first days.
> >>>
> >>>Regards,
> >>>proclus
> >>>http://www.gnu-darwin.org/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>On 9 Aug, Ruben I Safir wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>defenitly count out NY Fair Use. The noise level is alreay too high.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>I think Jay has a point about the SPAM. On the other hand, I don't think
> >>>>>it serves much purpose if a singular message is posted on each list, and
> >>>>>that's the end of it. I think the need to post and cross-post, and make
> >>>>>sure people recognize something is happening is necessary.
> >>>>>Thanks,
> >>>>>Tom Poe
> >>>>>Open Studios
> >>>>>Reno, NV
> >>>>>
> >>>>>proclus at gnu-darwin.org wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>How about "Freedom Axis"? I like the general idea to encompass groups
> >>>>>>who value free software, open standards, fair use, cryptography,
> >>>>>> privacy, etc. Speaking for myself, I already forward important alerts
> >>>>>>to the lists that I administrate, about 300 subscribers, plus
> >>>>>>free-skyarov sometimes. I don't consider it spam, because the
> >>>>>>subscribers have an expressed interest. I'm sure that others are doing
> >>>>>>likewise.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>How is this proposal different from what we are doing already? EFF
> >>>>>>action alerts, Politech, etc? How to do we avoid burnout and too much
> >>>>>>email?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Regards,
> >>>>>>proclus
> >>>>>>http://www.gnu-darwin.org/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>On 9 Aug, Jay Sulzberger wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, tompoe at renonevada.net wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Hi: Let's see what you folks think about the following:
> >>>>>>>>A web site that lists Users'Groups [all kinds, flavors, etc.]
> >>>>>>>>A web site that lists web sites [supporters]
> >>>>>>>>A web site that lists individuals [supporters]
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>The name of the web site: The Linux Army
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>This is close to something I have been considering. It is an important
> >>>>>>>thing to do. We should have been at today's FCC meeting.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>More than a simple alert system is needed. Organization, planning,
> >>>>>>>discipline, and experience will help us.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Tom, I love your stuff and this idea. but I have one objection:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>The name is wrong. Not "Linux", and not even "GNU/Linux". Perhaps not
> >>>>>>>even "Free Software". Right now I do not have a name I like, but I often
> >>>>>>>use the phrase "owners and makers". "stakeholders" is also a good word.
> >>>>>>>The Englobulators plots', if successful, will trammel us as "consumers", but
> >>>>>>>they will do worse to us as owners and makers: they will end our rights to
> >>>>>>>own and make and distribute our own stuff.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Also we need not allow any SPAM whatsoever. We can quickly distribute
> >>>>>>>information to many centers without allowing SPAM. We may not even need so
> >>>>>>>much bandwidth that many distribution points are required. Perhaps a
> >>>>>>>mailing list with an archive which we allow to be mirrored, subject, of
> >>>>>>>course, to our strict license, and partly secured by standard cryptographic
> >>>>>>>means ;)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>oo--JS.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>On this page, those who agree to the following are listed:
> >>>>>>>>1] Agree to open their sites to SPAM and cross-posting messages for TAKE
> >>>>>>>>ACTION events
> >>>>>>>>2] All messages with EFF will be posted for list members of Users'
> >>>>>>>>Groups, web sites and individuals [upon moderator approval]
> >>>>>>>>3] All members of The Linux Army will set up a folder on their mail
> >>>>>>>>clients to receive all messages with EFF in the Subject Line, so as not
> >>>>>>>>to have an undue amount of cross-posting and SPAM messages in their Inboxes.
> >>>>>>>>4] Now, whenever there are ACTIONS TO TAKE, the hundreds of thousands of
> >>>>>>>>members of The Linux Army are alerted, and can, in most cases, with just
> >>>>>>>>three clicks, "Do Their Duty".
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Slashdot is good for what it does, and The Linux Army, ugly as the SPAM
> >>>>>>>>aspect is, needs to be alerted to TAKE ACTION when needed. The only way
> >>>>>>>>to do that is to agree to a SPAM arrangement.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>There's a sample page at:
> >>>>>>>>http://www.studioforrecording.org/linuxarmy.html
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>If the idea is viable, then the next step is to decide who best to host
> >>>>>>>>the site?
> >>>>>>>>Thanks,
> >>>>>>>>Tom Poe
> >>>>>>>>Open Studios
> >>>>>>>>Reno, NV
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Seth Johnson wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Seth Finkelstein wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Well, what works? I must admit I've not had a
> >>>>>>>>>>great deal of success myself. Maybe there's nothing we
> >>>>>>>>>>can do. I don't claim to be an expert at such
> >>>>>>>>>>convincing. I'm only sharing empirical problems I've
> >>>>>>>>>>encountered from my own experiences in trying to
> >>>>>>>>>>convince skeptical people. If the world is divided into
> >>>>>>>>>>the unconvertable, and the choir singing
> >>>>>>>>>>they're-coming-to-take-us-away, that's disheartening.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Actually, organizing is best done by pitching to the choir.
> >>>>>>>>>The key is to show those who agree with you something in
> >>>>>>>>>motion, and thereby find the ones who are looking for
> >>>>>>>>>something real to be a part of. That's how you recruit the
> >>>>>>>>>leaders and build a movement. Organizers "call to emulate."
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>It isn't about spin or consciousness-raising, which the
> >>>>>>>>>"preaching to the choir" line implies, whenever you hear it
> >>>>>>>>>brought against you.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Seth Johnson
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>--
> >>>>>>>>http://www.studioforrecording.org/
> >>>>>>>>http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/
> >>>>>>>>http://www.studioforrecording.org/mt/Pubdomain_Bread/
> >>>>>>>>--
> >>>>>>>>Please go to EFF.org page at http://www.eff.org
> >>>>>>>>and register for the TAKE ACTION page.
> >>>>>>>>If you can donate $5, that'll help, too
> >>>>>>>>--
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>free-sklyarov mailing list
> >>>>>>>>free-sklyarov at zork.net
> >>>>>>>>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>free-sklyarov mailing list
> >>>>>>>free-sklyarov at zork.net
> >>>>>>>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>--
> >>>>>http://www.studioforrecording.org/
> >>>>>http://www.ibiblio.org/studioforrecording/
> >>>>>http://www.studioforrecording.org/mt/Pubdomain_Bread/
> >>>>>--
> >>>>>Please go to EFF.org page at http://www.eff.org
> >>>>>and register for the TAKE ACTION page.
> >>>>>If you can donate $5, that'll help, too
> >>>>>--
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>free-sklyarov mailing list
> >>>>>free-sklyarov at zork.net
> >>>>>http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>--
> >>>Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/
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> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
> Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/
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>
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