[CrackMonkey] [email@example.com: Re: [Pigdog] 12-Step-step-steppin' out on you..]
bobbern at delphi.com
Wed Jul 12 07:18:14 PDT 2000
On Tue, Jul 11, 2000 at 08:15:39PM -0700, Monkey Master wrote:
> begin Nick Moffitt quotation:
> > http://www.peele.net/lib/aaabuse.html
This is old news. AA meetings have been part of court mandated treatment for
at least twenty five years, if not longer. The court doesn't mandate
anything other than attendance (show up, snarf the free coffee and
doughnuts, and head to the bar when the meeting's over); it doesn't mandate
thought control. What drives groups such as Stanton Peele's *crazy* is that
in all the years since AA was founded, no group of psychosocial science
pedants has come up with anything that works better. AA works best for most,
and is therefore the rational first choice for prescribing treatment. (Peele
did write a good book, _Love and Addiction_; it's still worth reading.)
> (Research by Kaye Fillmore
> and Dennis Kelso of the University of California has found
> that most people arrested for drunk driving are able to
> moderate their drinking.)
These studies are a dime a dozen. You can probably find one that proves
drinking enhances driving skill.
> Well DUH. I mean, her crime wasn't DRINKING, it was DRIVING. The
> drinking part just affected her, and is her own business.
It stopped being her own business when she tooled out onto a public
thoroughfare. So, if part of how her drinking "just affected her" was to
impair her judgement of how impaired she was enough to render the thought of
driving a reasonable one, then the drinking contributed to the crime.
Some chronic offenders (multiple arrests for DUI) do not meet DSM-IV
criteria for alcohol dependence. *Most* do meet the criteria for antisocial
personality disorder; we used to call them (more colorfully) psychopaths.
Harsh first offender statutes have been shown to cut down multiple offender
rates. Once is enough for many. Typically it is those for whom once isn't
enough who plow into and wipe out entire families parked on the side of the
> She should have taken the suspension, and drank alone more often.
That may be exactly dear Marie's problem: with a couple of sherrys in her
she can't stay out of the car!
After spending far too much time over the years "treating" multiple
driving-under offenders I concluded that the only sensible measures are long
mandatory prison sentences with life-long loss of license. Period. These
guys (they are 95% guys) will *always* drink and drive again. Other
countries figured this out long ago.
I know, I know, this is not at *all* crackmonkey.
at obsd2.7 woohoo! and, it's canadian.
Esmond, R.I., USA
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